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Nancy Brophy murder trial: Day 22, morning session | Live stream — Transcript

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1:21want to do that
1:24so with that though anything before we
1:26bring the jury out
1:29um your honor i would
1:31counsel has
1:33two glocks sitting on council table
1:35which i anticipate he plans to use
1:36during the cross-examination of my
1:38client
1:39i would ask for a 104 hearing with
1:41respect to that particular demonstration
1:43because i have some strong concerns
1:45regarding
1:46uh
1:47the extreme prejudice that would come
1:48from him asking my client to handle a
1:50glock in the courtroom i would never do
1:52that do that
1:54all right um
1:59if he's not going to ask your client to
2:01handle the glock do you still have
2:02issues
2:04and not touch it or anything that i'm
2:06mostly just worried about the optics of
2:08her having to handle okay all right so
2:10you're not asking her to touch the gun
2:13or are you gonna be
2:15highly improper okay i just you know i
2:17don't know i i don't know what's coming
2:19i'm just trying to understand all right
2:22let's go ahead and uh well anything else
2:25from either side i
2:27i don't know if this is the right time
2:29your honor but i do feel that maybe just
2:31bringing it up now you had asked us
2:33about timing and yes you need to ask the
2:35jury or talk to the jury about possibly
2:37extending i do feel like based on the
2:40fact that defense
2:43is not done with their uh case yet it's
2:46tuesday i anticipate it's probably going
2:48to go most of the day if not all day
2:52i believe our rebuttal case is probably
2:55limited to two days or less
2:58that would take us to the end of the day
3:00on thursday if all everything goes well
3:03sure which we mean i think instructions
3:06and probably closing on friday
3:08if one i think we're going to probably
3:10definitely be using friday at this point
3:13and then two would be
3:15that means the jury's not even going to
3:16get this case until probably friday
3:18afternoon
3:20i'm assuming that they probably would
3:21need to be
3:22told that you know depending on
3:24deliberations of course but given the
3:26amount of evidence in this case and the
3:28time how long this case is taken i think
3:30it's very reasonable to think that their
3:32deliberations are probably easily going
3:33to go into next week sure and if they're
3:35not expecting that maybe it's
3:38and let me also say that doesn't even
3:39take into consideration i don't think a
3:42possible server battle right well yes i
3:44wasn't even thinking that when i was
3:46speaking right now so yes i think if
3:48there's going to be a survey bottle that
3:49that took place on friday
3:51there's a really good chance we don't
3:52even get to close the season
3:54okay um i think at this point it's
3:56probably safe to say where
3:57they should at least be warned right um
4:01i think i'm i'm assuming defense agrees
4:03with that
4:04as far as the timing goes we do i you
4:06know what would be helpful i think to
4:08find out whether that's going to cause a
4:09huge problem for the any of the jurors
4:11if it is uh sure we could try to be
4:14creative but i
4:16given the time pressures that we were
4:17describing to the court on friday if we
4:20just were able to say we're going to do
4:22the closing on monday that would be
4:24absolutely fine with us if it's okay
4:26with the
4:26jurors that would make a certain amount
4:29of sense i do think that we're going to
4:30have close to a full day of rebuttal if
4:33ms jacobs testifies and it sounds like
4:35she's
4:36still on track to do that if she doesn't
4:38testify then it's much more realistic to
4:40think that we finished this week sure
4:42right so right so i i think what i'll
4:45tell them i don't want to say closing
4:47arguments will be this day or they will
4:49be some other day
4:51since there's still a lot that can
4:53happen i think what i will do is
4:56indicate to them in talking with the
4:58attorneys we don't know precisely when
5:02we'll be at the point where they're
5:03going to make closing arguments and
5:05you'll get instructions but it's
5:07possible that could be friday or even
5:09monday of next week and then there would
5:11be time for
5:14you to deliberate which means in short
5:16the trial will not be done by the 20th
5:19very likely
5:21i'll ask them maybe not to bring up
5:23concerns this morning but if they have
5:26concerns to let miss lou know about them
5:29so that we can address them if they have
5:31them
5:32right i mean we do feel strongly about
5:34not wanting to lose any of the jurors
5:36sure
5:38so go ahead i'm sorry this one how are
5:39we going to cut you oh i just i mean if
5:41if the feedback that ms lou received
5:44from the jurors is that four of them
5:46said we're planning to leave for
5:48memorial day weekend plans on wednesday
5:51this is a huge problem
5:52then i i would
5:54request that we have some sort of
5:56brainstorming
5:58you know here to try to figure out a way
5:59to speed this up a little bit more
6:01because
6:02we don't want to lose jurors but if ms
6:04jacobs testifies i do think that the
6:06rebuttal that we have lined up is likely
6:08to take
6:09close to a day
6:10all right and i will tell the sides you
6:12know fairly easy ways to speed things up
6:15a bit
6:16uh or to allow more time for trial is to
6:21maybe start a half hour earlier start at
6:238 30 maybe take just an hour for lunch
6:26there are things we can do to sort of
6:30uh
6:31allow for more time in the day
6:34so
6:35i don't know that we need to do that
6:37today yet but i would ask the science to
6:39think about it and see what
6:42options they feel would be the best
6:44along those lines
6:46but
6:47let's go ahead then and bring in the
6:49jury and i'll start by talking to them a
6:51little about that
6:53[Music]
11:13all right please be seated
11:15um
11:16i wanted to mention some things to the
11:18jury and not asking for any kind of
11:21response right now but just something to
11:23think about i'm sure some of you have
11:25been wondering whether or not we're
11:27going to conclude on friday the 20th as
11:30we told you we would
11:32and i think the answer to that is
11:35as i've said many times trials are
11:37somewhat
11:39inherently unpredictable but the best
11:43thoughts we have on it right now
11:46is that you may not hear closing
11:48arguments until friday possibly even
11:51monday
11:53there are some ways that we can try to
11:55extend the hours of the day to get more
11:57information to you
12:00such as starting at 8 30 as opposed to
12:03nine or
12:05only taking an hour for lunch rather
12:07than an hour and a half
12:10we haven't
12:11decided what we're going to do but what
12:14i'm going to ask you to do
12:16is if you have concerns either about
12:19coming earlier or having a shorter lunch
12:22or perhaps coming in part of next week
12:25i'm going to have you write down your
12:26concerns along with which juror number
12:29you are and provide them to miss lou
12:32please don't try to talk to her about it
12:34in the hallway it's just not realistic
12:36that she can process everybody's
12:37concerns and give you any kind of real
12:40answer it's something that we'll have to
12:42have you right out so that we can figure
12:44out what we're going to do
12:47i realize for some of you this may be a
12:48big inconvenience and for others it may
12:50not
12:51be as big
12:53a inconvenience it's hard to know but i
12:56did want to give you that heads up now i
12:58will say uh certainly you can anticipate
13:01that we'll be in here on friday uh the
13:04first friday that will actually be in
13:06the courtroom
13:08so with that uh mrs brophy let's have
13:11you retake the stand
13:14is that word
13:16okay
13:23and you're still under oath so we won't
13:25have to retake the oath we'll just have
13:27you have a seat
13:31and remove your your mask when you're
13:33ready
13:35and then we'll continue with uh mr
13:37overstreet's cross-examination thank you
13:39josh
13:42uh miss brophy i wanna start can you
13:44hear me okay i can okay
13:46i wanna start uh just clear clarifying
13:48something from yesterday okay that i
13:50believe you testified too um
13:53you said when you got downtown
13:55um
13:56later that morning
13:59of june 2nd
14:01uh you kind of figured
14:03what was going on
14:04based on how people were reacting around
14:07you
14:08but is it
14:09it is true that nobody actually told you
14:12that it was dan that had been killed
14:13until detective posey correct
14:16yes okay
14:18and that was during that interview
14:20yes
14:22but you stated that
14:25karen called you before you went into
14:27that interview yes dan's mother karen
14:30yes and that you told her that it was
14:32dan
14:33and that he was dead
14:34yes
14:37based on the fact that you thought
14:40that dan had been killed
14:44it was more than think
14:46you hadn't been told
14:47i had not been told but i had not heard
14:50from him
14:52all of his friends avoided looking at me
14:54and the police officers knew who i was
14:56before i got there and one police
14:59officer hugged me
15:00this is not good news i'm going to hear
15:03what if you were wrong
15:05that i would have called karen and said
15:07happy days i was wrong and karen and i
15:09would have celebrated and we would have
15:11laughed and we would have had family
15:13jokes about this for 20 years and it
15:15would have been much much better than it
15:17turned out
15:22stated you bought this ghost gun build
15:24kit and you realize you couldn't put it
15:26together
15:28no i realized it was more intricate i
15:30didn't realize i couldn't put it
15:32together it was more intricate than i
15:34thought it would be okay based on what
15:36based upon the fact that
15:38it was supposed to be few parts and i
15:40thought it was a few too many parts what
15:42steps did you take to actually try to
15:44build it i didn't take any because i
15:45wasn't ready to write that story yet
15:49you decided to write that story months
15:51prior
15:52yes um
15:55but you weren't ready to start writing
15:56it that's right
15:58what was the need to buy the gun at that
16:00point
16:01i was celebrating it was christmas
16:04right right
16:06but what was the need to buy the gun
16:09if you weren't writing the story yet
16:15mr overstreet we have had testimony upon
16:17testimony upon testimony about the fact
16:19dan was a collector dan didn't wasn't a
16:22collector by himself i had my little
16:23piles of stuff
16:25you know
16:26uh
16:27what i found
16:29what i have found in life is if you see
16:31something you want it you can afford it
16:33buy it now because circling back for it
16:35it may or may not be there
16:37and so now you're a gun collector
16:39no
16:40now i have a piece of writing
16:42information research
16:49did you
16:51you said you didn't take any steps to
16:52try to build this gun i did not
16:55and i want to show you what's mark
16:57estates exhibit 25
17:03do first of all do you recognize this
17:05yes
17:08you recognize all the parts in here well
17:10you're further away than i would say but
17:12certainly it looks like all the parts
17:14are there is this what it looked like
17:16when you got it yes approximately
17:18approximately okay
17:20and
17:21you saw this part
17:24i did
17:26was there anything you needed to do to
17:27this
17:28to make it functional
17:31i hadn't gotten that deep into this gun
17:33i'm not sure how to answer that question
17:35because the answer is i don't know
17:38is there anything in the instructions or
17:40anything you saw online that made you
17:41think that you needed to manipulate this
17:43part
17:45and once again i go back to i don't know
17:48because there are a slew of parts you
17:51know uh
17:53the only thing i can attribute it to is
17:55when you buy an ikea thing there are
17:56pieces that come fairly close together
17:59and that isn't where you celebrate you
18:00celebrate the little bags of all you
18:02don't celebrate the little bag let me
18:04say this to this again where it makes
18:05sense
18:08you're delighted to see pieces more or
18:10less together all the little parts
18:12you're less delighted to see
18:16and
18:17is
18:18this why you never even open these
18:19little baggies i wasn't ready to start
18:21yet i didn't want them misplaced
18:25no attempts to try to build it you
18:26didn't do any further research because
18:28you weren't ready to
18:30write this story that's right
18:49your defense attorney stated an opening
18:50that you knew or that you thought you
18:53knew that nathaniel
18:55had previously done a build kit
18:58yes
18:59you knew that or thought that at least i
19:01thought he had said that and i believed
19:04him
19:05and you have this story to do a gun
19:08build kit and you actually when
19:09purchased a gun build kit
19:12you didn't ever talk to nathaniel about
19:13his experience with a build kit
19:16no and that wouldn't have been where i
19:17would have gone with that where i would
19:19have gone first would be to my
19:20father-in-law jack who i knew had every
19:22equipment in the world and could help
19:24you drill out the parts needed to be
19:25drilled out okay but you didn't do that
19:27either no because i wasn't ready to
19:29start yet
19:30and how did you know you needed a drill
19:32press because it was on one of the
19:34videos one of the videos uh-huh how many
19:36did you watch i don't know why were you
19:38watching videos if you weren't writing
19:39the story yet
19:41i was watching videos to see how to put
19:42it together
19:44but i thought you weren't ready to put
19:45it together i'm not ready to put it
19:47together but that doesn't mean i'm not
19:48researching what i have to do to get it
19:50ready to get put together
19:52okay so now you're doing research online
19:56we have stated previously and i am not
19:59backing down from that that i
20:03investigated investigated and
20:04investigated one of my friends has a
20:07sign over her desk that says only james
20:09michener gets to use all his research
20:11you research everything to maybe come up
20:13with six sentences in a book
20:15that will make the book more realistic
20:17so yeah i do tons of research you do a
20:19lot of research i do
20:25so i'm just having a hard time
20:28having that make sense with what you
20:30said about planning and
20:32preparing dan was a better planner than
20:35i was hang on let me ask you a question
20:36i'm so sorry
20:39said yesterday that you're not a planner
20:44did you say that i did say that but
20:47but let me put a copy out on that i am
20:50not a
20:50i am not a planner in the initial stages
20:53the way dan was but you know i'm fair
20:57i rarely go into anything willy-nilly
21:00and i rarely do anything that i don't
21:03complete
21:07uh states exhibit 82 showed that you
21:09were
21:10doing some of your research
21:12maybe
21:13on february 1st you were searching for
21:16gun shops at that time
21:18i'm not sure what state exhibit uh 82 is
21:21okay it was your uh internet some of
21:23your internet history okay
21:25um it was shown to you yesterday by your
21:27council
21:29and asked to you by your council about
21:31february first and you're searching for
21:33gun shops in portland
21:35what were you searching for
21:38that was different
21:39i wasn't researching that when i'm
21:41looking for gun shops in portland it was
21:43not for gun pieces at this point it's on
21:46the whole different conversation
21:48that's writing and that's a little
21:50cubicle in and of itself in my life what
21:52dan and i were talking about was did we
21:54need to own a gun at this point and
21:57while we had both been adamant uh
22:00anti-gun people for a long time the last
22:03three or four years had changed how we
22:05felt about that and we were discussing
22:07it and had been discussing it for well
22:09over a year
22:10so as what was described yesterday as a
22:13left-leaning individual yes your
22:15response to gun violence in the country
22:17was to buy a gun
22:21in 2017
22:23one of the uh
22:24memes uh of the left was
22:28uh if we continue to be anti guns
22:32what's that mean that everybody in the
22:34country who will own a gun but the
22:36people on the left and it was a serious
22:39concern lots and lots and lots of people
22:42were changing their ideas about gun
22:44ownership because the country had become
22:46so diversified
22:48well miss brophy i appreciate a meme as
22:50well and what other people's opinions
22:51might be but i'm asking your position as
22:54somebody who was so anti-gun so anti-gun
22:57in fact that your law enforcement
22:59husband wasn't allowed to have a gun in
23:00the house no hang on
23:03it's all right
23:04so anti-gun
23:06but your response to gun violence
23:07increasing in this country was to buy a
23:09gun yourself
23:10yes or no
23:14yes with a caveat
23:22at what point
23:24from the time you received this ghost
23:26gun
23:28to june 2nd
23:30did you decide that you were not going
23:32to use it
23:41that we're speaking now of the gun that
23:44we bought at the gun show
23:46oh all right ask me the question again
23:47please this ghost gun that i just showed
23:51what point did you decide you were not
23:53going to use it i never decided i was
23:55not going to use it is that why you kept
23:57it
23:57i kept it because eventually i was going
23:59to put it together and write the story
24:02and you decided the way to keep it would
24:05be to put it in a box
24:07with scarves and purses
24:09and store it in storage
24:11no
24:13what i decided was
24:15to store it away until i reached the
24:17point that i would do it but i was
24:19trying to get moved at that point
24:21certainly there was you know i didn't
24:23see another
24:24big option there and i even marked the
24:26box because at any point i expected the
24:29liska to come back to me and say things
24:32like does
24:33dan have a computer do you all have a
24:35computer can we look at any of this do
24:37you all have anything else so i marked
24:39it so i could find it again
24:41that was for the police benefit that
24:43wasn't for mine
24:44oh
24:47i marked the box that i packed that it
24:50had a gun kit in it because i thought
24:52sooner or later the police are going to
24:54come back to me and the police never
24:55once talked to me after that
24:59did you literally just say that was for
25:01the police's benefit that's literally
25:03what i said i marked the box for the
25:05police's benefit so that i could find it
25:07again when the police came back
25:11well i sort of thought that if the
25:13police didn't find something they would
25:14want to come back and re-interview and i
25:16would be able to show them things i
25:18thought the fact that all they had was
25:20stan's
25:21phone and not a computer from us might
25:24not had they may have reached a dead end
25:25and said mrs brophy is there anything
25:28you can give us that would help any
25:29electronic equipment anything else so i
25:32was kind of in my mind making a list
25:36i at that point silly me
25:38since i believed i didn't kill my
25:40husband i didn't think i was a uh with a
25:42uh serious
25:44uh suspect
25:47despite you telling people that you are
25:48i told people i was the suspect because
25:50it's always the wife all right so you
25:53lost me there for a minute um let's
25:54circle back
25:56you said
25:58something about computers right i didn't
26:00ask anything about computers i'm asking
26:02about a gun
26:03you're asking why i was marking things
26:06for the police
26:07i did not ask you that okay
26:12i
26:12think maybe that's where i got a little
26:14lost
26:14you said that you marked that box for
26:17the police benefit
26:20okay
26:22so you thought that was important to the
26:23police that they might want this gun kit
26:29i had a hard time believing
26:32that i would be interviewed by the
26:33police for 45 minutes we would have a
26:36brief conversation on the telephone and
26:39i would never hear from them again until
26:41the case was solved i thought for sure
26:44the police would come back and say
26:46is there anything else you've got that
26:48could help us and that would have
26:50included
26:51the gun kit let's make this easier what
26:53is the relevance of this gun kit to the
26:55police
26:56none but we had it you know i figured
26:59they'd ask for it sooner or later
27:02why would the police ask you
27:04for a gun kit that they don't know that
27:06you own
27:09but i'm failing to understand what your
27:11rationale was
27:14for
27:15making this available to the police you
27:16think it's so important to them that at
27:18some point they're going to come asking
27:19for it but you don't call them
27:23i figured the police were doing the
27:25police job the way the police did it
27:26that they probably did not need i will
27:29be the first to tell you i got my
27:30detective's license on tv
27:32and i can guarantee you i had ideas on
27:35how this case should have gone but i
27:37sort of figured the police had more
27:38experience and they were the ones in
27:40charge so you think you have relevant
27:42evidence
27:43to a
27:44murder investigation and you don't think
27:47you should mention it to the police how
27:49does a gun kit even though i marked it
27:51how is a gun kit relative evidence i'm
27:54asking you i'm asking you because i
27:56don't think it is because it's never
27:57been put together now why would you mark
27:59it for the police because i figured the
28:01police would come back and want to know
28:09so what what else did you think was
28:11relevant to the police investigation
28:12that you marked and did not share with
28:13them
28:17i
28:17i thought they would eventually want to
28:19know about the computers they thought
28:21they would eventually want to go through
28:23the computers and see what they could uh
28:25find if anything that would help them
28:27and did you give them a computer that
28:29belonged to dan
28:30no
28:31we had a computer
28:33they never asked for it but in my mind i
28:35knew they would eventually if they
28:37didn't solve the case by somebody coming
28:39in and confessing they would eventually
28:40come back and say
28:42can we see your computer my computers
28:44weren't packed because i thought they
28:46were relevant to the police if the
28:48police wanted to go in that direction
28:51well that's not exactly true right i
28:53mean you had a computer in storage
28:56no i had a computer in a box in
28:59one room and a computer by the bed and
29:01another room that's not in storage right
29:03one in a box in your room what about the
29:05one that was in the storage unit there
29:07was not computer and so there wasn't a
29:08laptop in the storage unit there was not
29:10okay
29:13what your testimony what your guys
29:14testimony was they found the computer in
29:16a bedroom and they found the computer in
29:18a box in the other in in this what had
29:20been the office
29:24and uh you would agree then that the
29:27stuff that was found on the computer
29:29that has been shown here in court was on
29:31the computer that was packed away in a
29:32box
29:36i think that's why they they did it but
29:39you know they were the two computers why
29:41did you get a new computer in march of
29:432018
29:44when you open the computer the old
29:46computer you can't read the screen
29:48because it's become
29:49lines across it so you did all your
29:51research of all these guns on one
29:53computer then pack that away and put it
29:55in a box in the closet and then you got
29:56a new computer is that right i get a new
29:58computer every year i take a computer
30:00with me when i go out to the fields i
30:02beat a computer up i buy a fairly
30:05inexpensive computer because i know i'm
30:06replacing it the next year
30:09and you thought the police would want
30:10that but you didn't give it to them
30:13the police never contacted me again i
30:16assumed that they were doing their job
30:17and didn't want my interference
30:21so you told your friends uh in this car
30:24ride that was in february right
30:27to one of them yes
30:29the one where you're telling darla
30:30lukenbah about the fact that you bought
30:33this gun kit yes
30:35and at that point you had already bought
30:37states exhibit 26 the full gun from the
30:40gun show correct
30:43if i hadn't bought it
30:44i was close to buying it i'm not sure
30:47the exact date of the car ride in
30:49february
30:50in fact you had not only bought this gun
30:53during that car ride but you were
30:55actively bidding on the slide and barrel
30:57isn't that right yes probably if it was
31:00after the 15th of february that we did
31:03this and we'll get to the slide and bear
31:04on a minute but your testimony
31:06and your what your defense has asserted
31:08in their opening statements was that you
31:10bought that sliding barrel for writing
31:12that's true but you didn't tell your
31:14friends about the sliding barrel
31:17i was more on the story than i was on
31:18the gun kit right
31:27you would agree that you never
31:29told law enforcement that you own this
31:31ghost gun kit
31:32no because this ghost couldn't get
31:34despite the fact you refer to it as a
31:36weapon on a regular basis it's not a
31:38weapon unless i hit somebody over the
31:39head with the case
31:40there's nothing about that gun kit
31:42that's a gun
31:43except that if you spend a few hours and
31:45put it together it could be a gun but
31:47i've got eggs and flour in my
31:51pantry and that's not an omelet either
31:53until you
31:54put it together
31:57and you would agree that you also never
31:59told the police about the sliding barrel
32:00that
32:01you purchased
32:03on ebay
32:05mr overstreet
32:07when i talked to the police
32:09when i talked to police in june they
32:11asked me specific questions my husband
32:14had just died the fact that i was
32:16coherent at all is a miracle the fact
32:19that they never came back to me after
32:20that for a follow-up interview i think
32:23thought was shocking
32:24you know i thought this was on the
32:26police this wasn't on me the police said
32:29we're handling this
32:31you just go home and rest you know you
32:33go home and take it one day at a time
32:36you know
32:37and they never contacted me again except
32:39for the things that i and they asked me
32:41for which was stan's schedule i got that
32:44to them and i was having trouble with
32:45their email but i did what i was asked
32:47to do are you declining to answer my
32:49question
32:50perhaps not what was your question
32:53that was a lengthy answer for not
32:54remembering my question well i go off on
32:57tangents so
32:58i asked you is it true that you did not
33:01tell the police about the sliding barrel
33:03it is true i did not tell the police
33:04about the sliding barrel the sliding
33:06barrel that fit would fit perfectly on
33:08the gun show gun that you purchased the
33:10slide and barrel that i was using for
33:11research for my writing i did not tell
33:13them about that
33:15you can answer that question i did i
33:17said i did not tell them
33:19would you agree that it fit on the gun
33:22that you bought from the gun it was the
33:23same thing it could have been
33:25interchanged yes so although you owned
33:29well we'll get to that in just a second
33:32when exactly did you put the ghost gun
33:34in storage
33:36somewhere between june 2nd and uh
33:39september 5th when i was arrested
33:43i have no idea
33:46how big was your property
33:47we had half an acre
33:53you're sure of that
33:54i'm positive got some conflicting
33:56testimony as you might remember yes yes
33:58but it was testimony from a woman who
34:00lived in an apartment who thought
34:01anybody on lawn was going to be huge
34:04yeah you had a half an acre yes
34:06and it's true that that that lot behind
34:09your house was not five acres right it
34:10was actually just about an acre
34:12it could have been slightly larger i
34:13think
34:14i think i've seen the plot then it was
34:16something like 1.3 but that's been a
34:18long time ago and i could be wrong you
34:20talked about the interview with the
34:21police and how that
34:23that was uh you just found out your
34:25husband died and it's very hard to
34:27remember everything that you talked
34:28about in there but you didn't you do
34:30recall that you didn't have any trouble
34:31telling them about the firearm that you
34:33had purchased at the gun show correct in
34:34fact you told them the whole story about
34:36why and how you purchased vega
34:39detective merrill said
34:41does stan have any guns dan owned half a
34:44block i told him about the full glock
34:47and i'm not trying to be sarcastic here
34:49although i thought listening to that
34:51sentence it came out started which
34:52wasn't really the way i wanted it to
34:54come out but what i will tell you is he
34:56asked me i answered him the best way i
34:59knew how
35:01why didn't you just say yes we have a
35:02gun
35:05i was trying to be helpful to the police
35:07at this point so they would know
35:09what was going on
35:11you know at this point i thought they
35:13were going to find my husband's killer
35:15and i didn't think they were going to
35:16say let's look at the one person who
35:18didn't kill him but instead of just
35:20answering yes we have a gun and it's at
35:22home you actually made sure to give them
35:24a full story as to how and why you
35:27purchased that gun
35:28mr overstreet you are having trouble
35:30keeping me quiet now because i tell
35:31stories as i'm talking to you do you
35:34think i was less than that with the
35:35police when i'm upset
35:38this is how i talk i tell full stories
35:40to illustrate what i'm saying even
35:42though you were just informed of your
35:43husband's murder well apparently it
35:45didn't make me quieter it just made me
35:47more upset
35:49and you paid cash for that gun
35:51yes we did
35:54your attorney made a uh
35:56a big deal out of you purchasing things
35:59with your debit card or credit card
36:00right
36:01why would you pay cash at the gun show
36:04well actually that was stan's idea and
36:07uh when we talked about it and what have
36:09you he said here's 400 in cash uh you
36:12get cash from your thing so i went on
36:14dan's idea on that didn't you actually
36:16withdraw the 400 i withdrew the 400 but
36:19it was
36:21he gave me 400 in addition and he gave
36:24me cash okay i don't know that i quite
36:27understand that didn't you withdraw 400
36:29from your onpoint account after he had
36:31given me the first 400
36:33how did he give you 400 in cash where
36:35did that come from dan has cash at the
36:38house
36:39dan on to operates the cash business you
36:41know he sells eggs he sells a crap on
36:45the cart he sells
36:47he operates with a lot of cash okay so
36:50he gave you we'll talk about that too
36:53so he gives you four hundred dollars
36:55you then go to onpoint and withdraw four
36:57hundred dollars
36:59so you have eight hundred dollars cash i
37:01do what did you do with the remaining
37:02three hundred
37:04well it wasn't a remaining three
37:07uh as they were taking the gun apart to
37:09show me how it worked they sold me uh
37:12but i didn't have a receipt on this they
37:14show sold me
37:16uh some oil
37:18that i they thought i was going to need
37:20and in addition i had bought a
37:23book on glocks in general so
37:26uh what did i do with
37:28the probably 200 plus but not much plus
37:33i don't know maybe i gave heart back to
37:35dan that was a long time ago it wasn't
37:37that essential to me i have no memory of
37:39what i did with it
37:41you didn't put it back in your bank
37:42account
37:44baby dan and i went out to dinner who
37:46knows
37:48you know but i could have just as easily
37:50given it back to dan okay
37:56told uh detectives and i believe you
37:58testified to this as well that you
38:01got home with that gun
38:04and uh
38:07looked at it
38:08thought it was heavy
38:10ugly
38:11some other maybe descriptive terms you
38:13used i'm not quite sure right now
38:17but you realized you didn't want it
38:19you and dan both realized you didn't
38:20want to
38:22i think we were both ambivalent about it
38:24still
38:25that this didn't really solve the
38:27problem but i think we went back and
38:28forth for months before we bought it and
38:30for weeks after we bought it okay so you
38:33didn't decide you didn't want it that
38:34day that's right
38:36you got it home you took it did you
38:38handle it oh sure
38:40we both did
38:41what did you do to handle it
38:43well you know we pulled it out and we
38:45looked at it and i mean how would i have
38:47known it was heavy if i hadn't held it
38:50uh
38:51you know
38:56and you know somebody testified earlier
38:58that there were two little dark hairs
39:00that were in the slide in our house who
39:03had two little short dark hairs was not
39:05me
39:06you know that would have been dan
39:08uh he handled it um did you see him
39:11handle it yeah i was right there and
39:13what did he do with it he looked at it
39:15he picked it up he messed with it he
39:17pointed it toward the backyard so you
39:20know even though it had no bullets in it
39:23uh
39:24and um
39:25you know i don't recall we had a great
39:27conversation about it but he definitely
39:29handled it did you ever remove the
39:30sliding barrel
39:32oh sure i played with it oh you did
39:34remove the sign bro sure oh
39:37i didn't think that was a secret
39:39well you didn't tell the police that the
39:42police didn't ask me whether i'd remove
39:44the selling barrel you told the police
39:46that you got it home
39:47and that you realized how much you
39:49didn't want it and you put it away and
39:51never touched it again do you remember
39:52that i could have said that but i was
39:54upset at the time so that was probably
39:56an exaggeration
39:58i handled the gun
40:00you know
40:01i may not have loved it
40:03but i was still curious about it and
40:05keep in mind i'm writing a story about a
40:07gun and i need to research guns so i can
40:10have it but yes i didn't you know i
40:13touched the gun yeah and so your
40:15testimony today after hearing all the
40:17testimony and seeing all the evidence on
40:18the screen your testimony today is that
40:19you have removed that side and barrel i
40:21have so you know how to do it yeah it's
40:23not that hard right oh it's terribly
40:25hard i broke two nails doing it don't
40:27believe them when they say it's not that
40:29hard you can't just whip it off the way
40:31they do it you have to hold the gun a
40:32certain way you have to pull it back i
40:35broke two nails pulling it back and i
40:37thought this isn't any fun
40:39and uh
40:40you would be shocked at how hard it is
40:42to do you know yeah if you've handled
40:44guns all your life i'm sure it's a piece
40:46of cake but i can tell you for me it was
40:49not
40:50so you remove the slide and barrel yes
40:54you can see that it's nearly identical
40:57to the ghost gun sliding barrel correct
41:01i'd have to look at both of them now but
41:02i would say yes let's do that
41:06oh yeah we can look at
41:09okay
41:24yes
41:28these look nearly identical
41:30i would agree that they look identical
41:33but they obviously are not
41:36one of them is quite a bit longer than
41:37the other one quite a bit longer
41:42which makes them not identical
41:46when you're surfing the little things on
41:47which find five things in this picture
41:49that aren't identical you would circle
41:51that right
41:53this one is slightly shorter yes glock
41:5519 ghost gun
41:59what else is not identical about this
42:01gun well one
42:03one of them obviously has a zip tie on
42:06it
42:07but
42:08they are similar it's what i would say
42:09but they are not identical
42:12can you see the back
42:13yes
42:15i agree they're similar can you see the
42:17top
42:18i agree they're similar i'm not going to
42:20point this at you but can you see the
42:22barrel i can yeah anything about this
42:25side
42:27that is not exactly the same
42:33i would ask you this as you're
42:35demonstrating this does it fit on the
42:37other gun no does that make it not
42:39identical yes
42:42i knew it didn't fit because i uh knew
42:45that
42:46i had a book on glocks and in order for
42:48a glock to work it had to work the right
42:51way you knew it didn't fit and then you
42:52bought a sliding barrel that would fit
42:54the gun show gun right
42:56no i bought a sliding barrel that was
42:59the same one i could have easily bought
43:02one that fit the uh ghost gun but i did
43:05not i bought this one why would you buy
43:07another sliding barrel to fit the ghost
43:08gun when you couldn't build it
43:11you already own it you own this piece
43:13right here you own this yes so why would
43:16you buy another one
43:18you know if a trigger had been available
43:20i would have bought a trigger i'm
43:22telling you i was fascinated with gun
43:24pieces at that point because i was
43:25writing a story on gun pieces and making
43:28it into a gun
43:30there's a trigger in this kit
43:32yes and i would have bought another one
43:33if i'd had it i figured if i could
43:35construct them together the way the uh
43:37character would have it would have
43:39worked fine but miss brophy you didn't
43:41buy other gun pieces you bought a
43:43sliding barrel that would fit this gun
43:46that's true no other pieces did you buy
43:49no but i wasn't finished shopping either
43:56you were worried you
43:57your counsel said this
43:59i don't know if you believe it or agree
44:01with it but i'm going to ask you
44:04you needed to buy that sliding barrel
44:05because you were worried about taking
44:06this gun apart yes okay
44:09but you just testified that you took the
44:11sliding barrel off of it
44:12that's not taking the gun apart we're
44:14talking about if we took the
44:16slide and bear the slime barrel itself
44:19completely apart
44:20could i put it back together and have a
44:22gun that wouldn't backfire on me and
44:24kill me
44:25you know and so
44:27the fact that when i said to dan i can
44:29take this gun the real gun not the kit
44:32play the gun
44:33apart
44:35and it'll help me do this dan said no no
44:39no no i've seen you in action that's a
44:41mistake let's keep it together we may
44:43get to sell it
44:46i'm not talking about taking the entire
44:47gun apart okay
44:49talking about the slide and barrel yes
44:50the critical piece of information as you
44:52know now if you didn't know before this
44:54trial you know now the sliding barrel is
44:56what is what
44:57is that issue
44:58right yes
45:00you keep talking about the gun and
45:01taking it apart and all talking about
45:03the slide and barrel
45:05you have a gun
45:07complete
45:09sliding barrel intact you know how to
45:11remove it in fact you did
45:14you can manipulate the slide and barrel
45:16separate and apart from the rest of the
45:18gun
45:19but you chose to buy
45:22the exact same
45:24piece
45:26is that right
45:28yes but i've had a caveat on that too of
45:31course go ahead
45:33the caveat i have on that was i wasn't
45:35thinking hey
45:37uh this would work that way i was
45:39thinking because for me
45:41the gun was the gun the toy was the toy
45:44the pieces were the toy
45:47you're not talking about the ghost gun
45:48miss brophy
45:50we're talking about the difference
45:51between the slide and the barrel
45:55i'm not talking about the ghost guy okay
46:00i thought when you said caveat that
46:01you're going to explain to us
46:04why in the world when you already own
46:06this exact piece you would need to buy
46:08another one days later
46:12within days
46:15what i can tell you is it was for
46:17writing it was not to
46:19uh as you would have it murder my
46:21husband why isn't this for writing
46:23what's the difference
46:26are you tapping the ghost gun or are you
46:28tapping the uh
46:30uh the full gun
46:35that isn't for writing because that
46:36isn't the story
46:39your honor at this point if council's
46:40gonna be aggressive i would ask that he
46:42not have a gun what the difference is
46:44okay hold on a sec i i'm going to allow
46:47him to to hold the gun
46:49explain to me what the difference is
46:50between this piece right here that i'm
46:52pointing to the blind barrel that you
46:53removed yourself
46:55and the one that you bought on ebay
46:58i thought we just went through that
47:01you're telling me you couldn't use this
47:03for writing
47:04no that was the end piece that was for
47:07protection the other was for research
47:27so at this point you spent over a
47:28thousand dollars in guns and gun parts
47:31is that right
47:33by the time you buy the ebay sliding
47:35barrel
47:36you're up around fifteen hundred dollars
47:41about about
47:45your
47:46uh attorney seemed to indicate that you
47:49happened upon the ebay sign barrel
47:52yes just a pop-up ad
47:55no it wasn't a pop-up head that's what
47:56she said
47:58well if that's what she said
48:00then i probably said that to her at one
48:01point or another but it wasn't something
48:04that
48:04uh the slime barrel
48:07was a
48:10did you say that
48:13sorry
48:16i didn't happen upon it
48:19at the point that i decided i wanted to
48:21do this i tend to be impulsive and i
48:23bought it because i wanted it
48:36where is it
48:38i have no idea
48:40if you'd asked me on the day of my rest
48:42i would have told you that it was either
48:44in the house or it was either in storage
48:46i haven't seen it for months and months
48:49and months and months
48:51so
48:53and you just bought it in february and
48:56got it at the very last day of february
48:57right february 28th could be
49:00i don't know i mean i'm not looking at
49:02my numbers notes
49:03you didn't lose this gun
49:06no
49:07you didn't lose the gun kit
49:09the gun cap went to the police
49:12the gun went to the police
49:13i didn't have to worry about packing
49:15that miss brophy i'm talking about
49:18the time leading up to the murder
49:19oh all right no i knew where that was
49:22you knew where the ghost gun was
49:24it was on the floor of my closet you
49:26knew where that gun was yes
49:28and i would tell you that the slide was
49:30on the floor of my closet next to the
49:32ghost gun sitting on the floor
49:36just like literally sitting on the floor
49:38well it wasn't in the middle it was tech
49:40talk it was tucked behind next to rather
49:44than behind next to an armoire i had in
49:47the closet when's the last time you saw
49:49it
49:50that's what i was saying i can't
49:51remember i have no idea when the last
49:53time i saw it was i know that i messed
49:55with it in february i know i messed with
49:57it in march but i can't remember seeing
50:00it after that
50:08why didn't you make an attempt to locate
50:10it
50:11and mark it for the police like you did
50:13the ghost gun
50:14i stumbled across the ghost gun when i
50:16was packing that's why i marked the box
50:19in my mind i had a list of things i
50:21thought the police might come back and
50:23ask me for and i thought the ghost gun
50:24would be among them
50:28do you see the irony and
50:31not being able to locate that and
50:33that being the allegation that that was
50:35the murder weapon you know i see nothing
50:38ironic about this case at all i see
50:40nothing happy about this case at all
50:46you're aware that the police searched
50:48your storage unit i am your pods
50:52yes your house
50:53yes you're aware that they even opened
50:55up your appliances inside your house to
50:57search for i was not aware of that okay
51:01you would agree that you previously
51:02written about hiding weapons inside
51:04appliances correct
51:08one of your books
51:12maybe but i don't remember that okay
51:15are you aware that they even opened up a
51:16wall to search for a gun yes they did it
51:19after the house went into uh eight
51:22months after that they had gotten the
51:24search warrant they went back with a new
51:26search warrant just before it closed
51:30so they did all that searching
51:33got the ghost gun uh
51:36couldn't find the sliding barrel from
51:37ebay
51:43but you stored a lot of stuff in your
51:44niece's basement didn't you i did
51:46but the stuff i stored in my niece's
51:48basement happened after
51:52the police were finished with the house
51:54that was everything that was apt at the
51:55end so the police either looked at it or
51:57they hadn't
52:03you didn't store anything
52:04anywhere else before
52:07your arrest
52:08no
52:09and you're sure
52:11that nothing went to your niece's house
52:13i'm positive nothing went to my niece's
52:15house aft until after i went wait let me
52:18back up just a minute because there's a
52:19fact here
52:22susan had left some clothes
52:25for a while they had uh
52:28been at uh sarah's house
52:30before dan died and i'm going to say
52:33maybe as long as a year before dan died
52:35i went and got all the boxes that susan
52:38had left and put them in our storage
52:39building so that when susan came i was
52:42able to give those to her sister and she
52:44took him home so i have had things
52:47stored at sarah's house in the past
52:51you know like you just said
52:55that the police were very interested in
52:57the sliding barrel
53:00right
53:01i know that from the testimony and from
53:03the hearings we've had
53:05you have the discovery i have discovered
53:08here i have a matter for the court
53:10okay let's uh let's have the jury step
53:12out for just one minute
53:24i need to stand yes
53:55all right everyone can be seated
53:59go ahead in the smack spawn yeah sure
54:02i i am worried that we are headed in a
54:04direction where council is going to ask
54:06my client about what the police what
54:08kind of evidence the police wanted and
54:09why after her arrest she didn't produce
54:12a slide and barrel to the police and i
54:14would make
54:15a fifth amendment argument
54:17against that if we're going to go down
54:19that road about whether she didn't
54:21voluntarily produce evidence after her
54:23arrest i have serious concerns about
54:25that and would make an objection
54:30what type of evidence we've heard
54:31testimony that she doesn't know what
54:33happened to the sliding barrel i think
54:35what council the direction council went
54:38is you knew that the slide and barrel
54:39was important to the police you knew
54:41that from reading the discovery and i
54:43anticipate the next question is even
54:45after reading in the discovery that the
54:47police were very concerned about finding
54:49the slide and barrel you did not produce
54:51it
54:53now i know that she's already answered
54:55the question in the fact that she said i
54:57have no idea where the darn sliding
54:58barrel is but but at this point if we're
55:01going to pursue a line of questioning
55:02about what evidence she must produce or
55:05or the jury should think she must
55:06produce post arrest
55:08i think is wrong and i think it violates
55:11her
55:11her rights not
55:13to even have a jury make an adverse
55:16inference regarding the production of
55:17evidence
55:19let me ask what was the question what
55:21was the line of questioning going to be
55:23i'm going to ask her about why she
55:25didn't well i i i don't want to disclose
55:27the question in your honor okay
55:29i can tell you that
55:31here's where where i'm at
55:36so she is testifying she's not remaining
55:39silent
55:40and she's already answered the question
55:42about what became of the slide in barrel
55:44um
55:48i'm not totally sure where the state is
55:51going with this line of questioning
55:54uh
55:55so i at this point i'm overruling the
55:57objection but miss maxwell depending on
56:00what the state asks uh feel free to
56:04raise it again but
56:06at this point i think it's fair game to
56:08to ask about
56:10what she knew and
56:12i don't know if she knew or didn't know
56:13what the state's about to ask because
56:15i'm not quite sure what the state's
56:16going to ask and i will say your honor
56:18i'm not asking
56:20why she didn't
56:23give it to police she's already said she
56:24didn't know where it was
56:25i already have that are you asking
56:27questions about her
56:30refusing to produce other evidence or i
56:33mean can you give me a general idea i
56:35know you you don't want her to hear the
56:37question in advance i'm just trying to
56:38get
56:39an idea of the theme
56:41it is not
56:42her refusal
56:44to produce evidence okay it's not my
56:47line all right all right
56:49let's uh let's bring the jury back in
1:00:03please be seated
1:00:08i over ruled the objections so mr
1:00:11overstreet you can ask the next question
1:00:13um
1:00:14miss purple i'm going to come back
1:00:17to that in a minute um
1:00:19but i believe your answer was that you
1:00:22did have the discovery you reviewed it
1:00:25yes okay
1:00:26and you you do realize or did realize
1:00:29that this sliding barrel that was
1:00:31outstanding was a central issue in this
1:00:33case
1:00:37yes probably
1:00:39uh eight months after my arrest i
1:00:41realized that okay
1:00:42and you understand that today
1:00:44yes
1:00:47now you've
1:00:48testified um
1:00:51well we've heard different things from
1:00:52your from your interview with the police
1:00:54and what you've said on the stand that
1:00:57you sort of hated guns you didn't like
1:00:58them but then you became interested in
1:01:00them for writing then for
1:01:03safety
1:01:04and then you seemed taking quite an
1:01:06interest after that in in guns is that
1:01:09safe to say
1:01:11i would say the irony is that we bought
1:01:13a gun to protect us and it didn't
1:01:15protect us
1:01:17i'm just asking about your interest in
1:01:18guns my interest in guns were two-fold
1:01:21one is the protection which it didn't
1:01:23work and second is the writing which has
1:01:25nothing to do with guns but has to do
1:01:27with gun pieces right
1:01:30but you said you became obsessed with
1:01:32fire
1:01:33i was obsessed with the writing and the
1:01:35gun pieces not with firearms
1:01:38you know i wasn't investigating ar-15s
1:01:41or shotguns or anything like that
1:01:43just clocks
1:01:45just a handgun that would protect my
1:01:48character
1:01:49and you did a lot of research online not
1:01:51yet i've started it so you
1:01:56didn't you just testify like that i've
1:01:58started researching that i research
1:02:00online all the time but i wasn't
1:02:02finished researching by any stretch of
1:02:04the imagination you had been to a gun
1:02:06show
1:02:07yes bought a gun yes bought a ghost gun
1:02:11went through that whole process right
1:02:14uh
1:02:15when did you go to the gun range
1:02:17i never have been to a gun range never
1:02:19been to a gun range
1:02:23so you're doing this research
1:02:25you're getting ready to do this writing
1:02:27you
1:02:29have all these people around you
1:02:31that know about guns and
1:02:33own guns and
1:02:35have maybe even done some research
1:02:37themselves for their own books
1:02:40why didn't you ever talk to nathaniel
1:02:42about guns
1:02:48i have talked to nathaniel about guns
1:02:50there was a point i was writing a story
1:02:52early on and i told him i needed a gun
1:02:56uh a type of gun that i could say
1:02:59my uh
1:03:01hero used and he gave me the name and
1:03:03explained why when was that
1:03:06well
1:03:07you know it was probably uh
1:03:12it was probably
1:03:142010
1:03:16it would have been a while before
1:03:18so in 2018
1:03:202017 2018
1:03:23you had known for years that nathaniel
1:03:24had knowledge about guns
1:03:27yes but
1:03:29sorry you talked to dan's brothers about
1:03:30guns
1:03:31that he they owned them
1:03:33or at least bill owned them
1:03:35and uh did you talk to tanya medlin and
1:03:37her husband about guns apparently dan
1:03:40talked to him more than i did but yeah
1:03:42and terry reid
1:03:44no i don't think terry reid and i
1:03:46discuss guns at all you what about your
1:03:48other writer friends including jesse
1:03:50smith jesse smith salute
1:03:54i probably talked briefly to linda smith
1:03:57but i knew how she felt uh and linda
1:03:59smith does not write that kind of a
1:04:01story anyway why didn't you talk to matt
1:04:03gitzell about guns
1:04:06well i didn't know that he was an
1:04:08authority why not follow up with tony
1:04:10hall who you knew was an authority tony
1:04:12hall was really dan's friend i mean i
1:04:14knew him but i never ran into him
1:04:19why didn't you do any research at the
1:04:21gun
1:04:22show or go to a gun store and talk to
1:04:24them because i wasn't ready to write the
1:04:26story yet that would have come
1:04:30in fact the
1:04:31company that you bought the gun through
1:04:33jmb firearms that's actually a gun store
1:04:35that's very close to your house right it
1:04:36turned out to be yeah
1:04:39they had recommended that you go to uh
1:04:41threat dynamics or that gun range that
1:04:43we've
1:04:44seen a couple of times uh you never went
1:04:46to threat dynamics never
1:04:49you've never gone to the tri-county gun
1:04:51club
1:04:53is that the one that we keep talking
1:04:54about out on 26th oh oh well no i've
1:04:57never been there
1:05:07where were you going on the 26th when
1:05:08you're out near that gun range
1:05:11oh on the two random days in march that
1:05:14we've been talking about off and on
1:05:16is that what you're asking me about now
1:05:18yes
1:05:19okay
1:05:20uh
1:05:23dan and i had decided that that was an
1:05:25area we wanted to look at i'm driving
1:05:27around frequently out there trying to
1:05:29look to see if there's any property
1:05:32anything that leaps out at us anything
1:05:34that is all the requirements dan has the
1:05:37land has to be flat for gardening the
1:05:39land has to be fairly
1:05:41treeless
1:05:42so that we don't have the shadow hanging
1:05:44over it i know what he requires and i
1:05:46know what i need in the house isn't that
1:05:48state land out there it is after fashion
1:05:51and that's why i didn't go all the way
1:05:52out to where you're saying it was i went
1:05:54out after fashion came back you just
1:05:56drove out there randomly were there less
1:05:59than a couple of minutes
1:06:01and then headed back to portland no i
1:06:03didn't i didn't do any of the
1:06:06wait let's stop
1:06:08but ask your question to me again and
1:06:10let me see 26 the first day i believe it
1:06:12was monday right
1:06:14while dan was at work right
1:06:16uh you drove out
1:06:18to that area right
1:06:20and according to cell site location
1:06:22information it appears that you drove
1:06:24out there turned around and drove back
1:06:29i don't think i drove that far
1:06:31out there i mean you know i don't i if
1:06:34i know that it's out there i know
1:06:36because we've talked about it and talked
1:06:37about it and talked about it but i have
1:06:38never ever ever been there and if i had
1:06:41been going there i would have gone there
1:06:43with dan and i would have gone there
1:06:44with
1:06:45we ended up at the closest i got to it
1:06:47we had what two minutes 10 minutes that
1:06:49i could have spent there i can think if
1:06:51i was just going out to fire a gun at
1:06:53dirt that i could have found someplace a
1:06:55whole lot closer to my house than
1:06:57driving an hour and a half to make that
1:06:59happen
1:07:01so
1:07:04you knew about that gun range
1:07:06i had heard about the gun range from the
1:07:08j and b people
1:07:10in fact that's your handwriting right
1:07:12no no i haven't seen that note in h
1:07:17so you knew it was there though
1:07:19and i'm not sure that is my handwriting
1:07:20so i'm thinking about it i think they
1:07:22wrote it down okay but but i can look at
1:07:24the note again and tell you let's not
1:07:25get lost in the weeds here okay you know
1:07:28about the gun range
1:07:30about the gun range
1:07:32your car just happens to be out in that
1:07:33area on the 26th i'm sorry your phone
1:07:35happens to be on that area on the 26th
1:07:38and what i can tell you is
1:07:40delilah marvel's property is
1:07:43west of banks
1:07:45bernona is northwest the area dan wanted
1:07:49to look in is this area and we
1:07:52i was looking you know and i can tell
1:07:55you we've been looking for a while
1:07:56you'll see if you went back and looked
1:07:58at my uh
1:08:00my uh
1:08:02locations at the kiosk i frequently was
1:08:04in that area looking once again property
1:08:07what would work
1:08:08you know you'll see i'm all over town
1:08:11now to be perfectly honest i don't
1:08:13remember doing any of this but i'm sure
1:08:15i did it and since you brought it up so
1:08:17often i have seriously thought about it
1:08:19but all i can tell you is it wasn't a
1:08:22day where i thought whoa this will be
1:08:25new and different this was just a day
1:08:27and i'm assuming the reason i'm driving
1:08:29around out there in that area is because
1:08:32i look for property this is not a
1:08:34situation where i have a clear memory of
1:08:36it this is a situation where
1:08:39if i was out there on two random days in
1:08:42march then what was happening was i was
1:08:44probably looking for property and that
1:08:46is my best guess
1:08:48didn't you have lunch with someone that
1:08:50day i could have i don't remember in
1:08:52portland
1:08:53i have no idea
1:08:56i i mean let's go back let's look at the
1:08:58records i can probably reconstruct but
1:09:01uh
1:09:03where does it say i had lunch didn't you
1:09:06go to nicholas's restaurant in northeast
1:09:08portland on broadway
1:09:10on the 26th okay i could have does that
1:09:13sound familiar i go there frequently i
1:09:15have a friend who really likes to go
1:09:16there and and we frequently meet and
1:09:18talk about writing there and who who are
1:09:20you meeting there
1:09:21well uh it's somebody who hasn't
1:09:23testified it's a woman named marilyn
1:09:25hell marilyn hull the whole hull so on
1:09:28the 26th
1:09:30you get up
1:09:32you google how to load a glock 9
1:09:33millimeter
1:09:35you drive out to an area that wait wait
1:09:36i don't know that i googled that but if
1:09:38you say i did i'd like to see that but i
1:09:41could have i mean once again
1:09:44i am
1:09:46i am messing with gun pieces you know
1:09:50i am not messing with uh
1:09:53research i am not messing with uh so i
1:09:56could have put that in that morning if i
1:09:58had some spare time because i don't
1:10:00think i gave up the gun research
1:10:03until the beginning of april when i knew
1:10:07i had to get back and finish my other
1:10:08story part of the problem is
1:10:12is if you don't finish the story you're
1:10:14on then you have story pieces everywhere
1:10:17and
1:10:18you know people say what's up the most
1:10:20difficult thing about writing a book
1:10:22it's finishing the book you have to
1:10:25force yourself to finish it when you've
1:10:26written yourself into a hole it's real
1:10:29easy to see a new idea out there that
1:10:31would be more interesting you have to go
1:10:33back and force yourself so yeah i had a
1:10:35few months where i flirted with guns but
1:10:37real frankly my goal was to finish the
1:10:40book i was on
1:10:42okay so in march you are doing research
1:10:44at that point
1:10:45i could be yes
1:10:47and uh can we go and put up states
1:10:49exhibit 82. sure
1:10:53go there to march 26th
1:10:5610 13 a.m do you see that
1:11:01searching loading a nine millimeter
1:11:03glock okay
1:11:05uh
1:11:06immediately after that searching
1:11:08cleaning a glock
1:11:10okay
1:11:12and then you get in your car
1:11:14okay
1:11:15drive out
1:11:16to an area that has now been established
1:11:18is where that wolf creek gun range is
1:11:20i don't know why i put this back on
1:11:22uh
1:11:23okay but if i wasn't i can guarantee you
1:11:26that i wouldn't have gone that far and
1:11:28the reason why is because that's all
1:11:29forested land and it's higher elevation
1:11:32than what dan wanted but i'm not gonna
1:11:34tell you i wasn't out there because i
1:11:36probably was you know you've got video
1:11:38that shows my phone visited it and
1:11:40you're out there for
1:11:41no time at all to basically turn around
1:11:43and drive straight back into northeast
1:11:45portland for lunch that could be it it
1:11:48could be that uh
1:11:50that could have happened i drive a lot
1:11:52in my job i also drive a lot for
1:11:55meditation for work for
1:11:58writing
1:12:00what does that have to do with what
1:12:01we're talking about
1:12:04you're saying you drove around two
1:12:06random days in march i'm saying my best
1:12:08guess is i was looking for property but
1:12:10my best guess could have been i was
1:12:13building a plot hole too
1:12:14are you following me that i don't know
1:12:16what i was doing i'm giving you what i
1:12:18regard as
1:12:20great possibilities of what i was doing
1:12:22great so you have a nice lunch you go
1:12:24home
1:12:26the next morning you get up and do the
1:12:28same thing okay stands at work again
1:12:31okay you drive out to the same area
1:12:34exact same area
1:12:36but you're there for longer
1:12:38do you recall that
1:12:40i recall the testimony that i've heard
1:12:43i'm asking if you recall no
1:12:46i no these are two random i drive all
1:12:48the time i don't think about this i
1:12:51drive what i'm thinking
1:12:52for about the story i drive when i'm
1:12:55working i
1:12:57work all over this whole area no i don't
1:13:00recall two random days in march that i
1:13:02was driving around i can tell you for
1:13:04sure i never went to the gun range
1:13:07would it surprise you that that's the
1:13:09only two times that your phone as far
1:13:11back as the phone records go that we
1:13:12have
1:13:14when you head out that way that it's the
1:13:16only time you don't go all the way to
1:13:17the coast
1:13:18no
1:13:19that can't possibly be true and the
1:13:21reason why that can't possibly be true
1:13:23is because i have a lot of clients in
1:13:27uh
1:13:28fredonia
1:13:30and i would have gone out to see them if
1:13:32nothing else during medicare cert uh
1:13:35season you know i have clients i drive
1:13:38all over i love frenonia i think it is a
1:13:40charming little town
1:13:42but uh
1:13:44but that does not mean that i that could
1:13:46possibly have been the only times i was
1:13:48out there as i didn't go to the coast do
1:13:50you agree on the 26th and 27th you
1:13:52didn't go to bernonia
1:13:54i don't remember going to frenonia but
1:13:56your records show that i didn't go to
1:13:57fredonia and i'm ready i'm willing to
1:13:59believe you okay
1:14:09i want to talk about uh
1:14:11dan's routines okay we've got a lot of
1:14:13testimony in this case i think you'd
1:14:14agree that
1:14:16he held a pretty strict routine
1:14:19is that correct
1:14:20yes
1:14:22whatever it was whether it was what time
1:14:24he left for work or
1:14:25depending on the day he he held a strict
1:14:28routine depending on what his his
1:14:30schedule was for the day i think you
1:14:32testified that within the 30-minute
1:14:34windows pretty much he got up at the
1:14:36same time every day didn't matter if he
1:14:37was going to work that's absolutely true
1:14:39um what time was that
1:14:42it was between 4 and 4 30. that's when
1:14:44he would wake up
1:14:46okay
1:14:47i think you testified too and i i know
1:14:49you told the police that
1:14:51he walked the dogs
1:14:52take care of the chickens
1:14:54um sometimes go get you coffee
1:14:57that was pretty routine for him
1:14:59okay anything else
1:15:01he frequently if he needed to do
1:15:03something like go to woe jemiah in the
1:15:04morning he would do that
1:15:06he did shopping for his class or for
1:15:09whatever he was doing uh usually early
1:15:12in the morning
1:15:13uh
1:15:14you know he uh
1:15:16he worked in the garden early in the
1:15:18morning
1:15:20it sounds like you two kind of
1:15:24did your own thing
1:15:26during the day like he would go to work
1:15:27you had your things sorry your things to
1:15:29do like you would have go and meet
1:15:31clients things like that
1:15:33but you didn't you didn't work together
1:15:36that's not true we frequently work
1:15:38together
1:15:39uh
1:15:40you worked at oci no
1:15:43no but we worked together on different
1:15:44things if he had a
1:15:46class
1:15:48outside of oci for example i might take
1:15:50things down to them i took things down
1:15:52to oci for dan
1:15:54three to four times a month because he
1:15:56would get to school and realize he'd
1:15:57left something so we worked together in
1:16:00terms of
1:16:01of doing things but not necessarily on
1:16:04projects
1:16:05am i being clear not really okay so
1:16:08when you
1:16:11would you say that generally you knew
1:16:13where dan was
1:16:15yes i yes i would say that and in
1:16:17general would he know where you were in
1:16:19general he would know where i was you
1:16:21guys would communicate i'm i'm going to
1:16:23work or i'm coming home or whatever
1:16:26yes or you know
1:16:29i sold a policy or
1:16:32uh the dogs uh are having an issue or
1:16:36whatever we caught we were in constant
1:16:38contact okay
1:16:43and
1:16:44in general i know it depends on what
1:16:46kind of stuff is happening at oci on the
1:16:49weekends did dan generally leave around
1:16:51the same time
1:16:58in general did dan leave around the same
1:17:00time every day no it would depend on
1:17:02what the schedule was
1:17:04you know if he was working weekends he
1:17:06worked he worked he left at a different
1:17:08time if he was working days he worked at
1:17:10a different time if he was going
1:17:12mushroom hunting he left at a different
1:17:14time listen to the question the question
1:17:16is on the weekends all right and going
1:17:18to oci right did he generally leave at
1:17:21the same time i i would say what's in a
1:17:2330-minute window yeah okay
1:17:25and
1:17:26on june 2nd
1:17:28did you expect for him to leave earlier
1:17:30that day because of the live fire it
1:17:32wouldn't have surprised me for him too
1:17:34but dan was always prepared
1:17:37dan took being a boy scout to heart and
1:17:39he was always prepared
1:17:41we went to a party where somebody cut
1:17:43themselves with a knife who had a
1:17:45medical kit dan
1:17:47you know he was mr prepared so
1:17:50he could have left earlier he could have
1:17:51been well enough prepared that he uh
1:17:54didn't need to
1:17:55and in preparation for that live fire he
1:17:58actually took two carts down to the
1:18:00school the day before correct
1:18:02that wasn't in preparation for the live
1:18:04fire he took two just okay he took two
1:18:07carts down because he does that every
1:18:08weekend gotcha he does that every friday
1:18:11yes okay most well
1:18:13i hate to commit to every friday he does
1:18:15it every weekend but the days he chooses
1:18:17to do it or his days
1:18:21and uh you were aware that he did that
1:18:22that friday june 1st i was okay
1:18:26and
1:18:28you know
1:18:30dan generally parks on 17th in front of
1:18:32the culinary institute
1:18:35no
1:18:36he i think he parks there a fair amount
1:18:37but he also parks on madison he uh
1:18:41rarely uses a lot because he's one of
1:18:43the lucky people who have a parking
1:18:44sticker
1:18:45he can park on the street yeah and he
1:18:47parks wherever he barks i mean i don't
1:18:49think he has
1:18:50a signed parking or even
1:18:53his idea of assigned parking
1:18:55does it make sense to you though that
1:18:56when he is bringing things to the school
1:18:58that he would park on 17th so that he
1:19:01could unload and load into the school
1:19:04that would make sense
1:19:09but i would also say when he and the
1:19:11starbucks across the street were doing
1:19:13five
1:19:14gallon buckets of of uh
1:19:18coffee grounds he parked on uh jefferson
1:19:20so he could deal with that okay
1:19:24uh you stated that uh you knew that the
1:19:27doors would usually be locked at the
1:19:30school is that true
1:19:31the doors were always locked
1:19:34as far as i know i don't know of an
1:19:36incident where uh anything but the
1:19:38student door would have been opened uh
1:19:41that people could have gone in and out
1:19:43uh
1:19:46we'll talk about the school a little bit
1:19:47more in just a second
1:19:49um
1:19:51you sort of mentioned this i actually
1:19:53think you did mention it that dan always
1:19:55had cash
1:19:56is that just kind of the guy he was he
1:19:58liked to deal in cash as opposed to
1:19:59cards and credit cards
1:20:02he operated with cash and so he needed a
1:20:05lot of ones because of the cart so he
1:20:09frequently would have
1:20:10uh little
1:20:12money bundles of ones at home from
1:20:15either money he'd made off the cart or
1:20:17what have you he operated with cash more
1:20:20but it was largely for the cart
1:20:23right
1:20:24and
1:20:25it's true that he often didn't even know
1:20:28how much money was in his own account
1:20:29right
1:20:33dan was more routine than that i
1:20:34wouldn't say he didn't know how much was
1:20:36in his account i would say it
1:20:38differently i would say dan had certain
1:20:41the reason why we broke up our finances
1:20:43the way we did was because his expenses
1:20:46were much more
1:20:47routine and he could figure out his
1:20:50money based upon the fact his check was
1:20:53much more routine than my life was but
1:20:55he would actually
1:20:56reach out to you to ask you if his check
1:20:59had been deposited right yes
1:21:01he uh
1:21:02occasionally he would call me and say
1:21:05i need you to look at the bank account
1:21:06and tell me this or that
1:21:14know what i'm about to start a new
1:21:15subject i don't know if you want to all
1:21:16right let's go ahead and take our
1:21:17morning break then and be back on the
1:21:20record at 10 45.
1:41:15break early after all we'll just go to
1:41:17445 as we have been going
1:41:19so with that let's uh yeah
1:41:21yes two things one i have to find my
1:41:23glasses before we do anything and i
1:41:25don't know where i left them but i'll go
1:41:26find them um
1:41:28oh thank you
1:41:29problem losing your glasses is you can't
1:41:32see sure um
1:41:34the other thing is and i just thought
1:41:35it'd be easier to do it now rather than
1:41:37when a jury
1:41:38leave the jury back out one of the
1:41:40exhibits that i'm going to want to talk
1:41:42to my client about on redirect
1:41:45is um
1:41:48what's the exhibit number
1:41:50are you talking about that text thread
1:41:52susan yeah
1:41:53it's 212.4
1:41:56212.4 oh i would
1:41:59can
1:42:00i would like to show the court right now
1:42:02exhibit defense exhibit 212.4
1:42:05okay
1:42:07which is a text from dan brophy to nancy
1:42:10brophy
1:42:12asking her whether she's tackling
1:42:14susan's room
1:42:15with i think with abandon
1:42:19um council had asked ms brophy
1:42:22on cross-examination whether
1:42:24why she hadn't cleaned up why they
1:42:26hadn't cleaned up the house before dan
1:42:28died
1:42:29and so i want to talk to her about this
1:42:32texted question because it sets the time
1:42:35in which she's actually trying to clean
1:42:36out susan's room which is the second
1:42:39bedroom downstairs
1:42:40which happened on march 4th of 2018.
1:42:47okay i'm trying to follow uh there were
1:42:50some questions about whether or not they
1:42:52had
1:42:53cleaned up to prepare to sell the house
1:42:56before his death
1:42:59what is the relevance of this the
1:43:01relevance is this he's asking ms brophy
1:43:03whether she's attacking susan's room
1:43:05with reckless abandon and the date of
1:43:08this text message is march 4th 2018
1:43:11about 12 30 in in the afternoon okay so
1:43:14your argument is that it's rebutting a
1:43:17contention that they weren't doing
1:43:19anything to prepare for
1:43:22yes and i want to show that to my client
1:43:24and ask her what she was doing in
1:43:25susan's room
1:43:27um
1:43:28on mars i think i think i'm following
1:43:31that yeah
1:43:32okay and does the state what's the
1:43:34state's position
1:43:35well we do have a relevancy objection
1:43:37and hearsay objection but also
1:43:41dan asking
1:43:43i mean miss brophy could certainly say
1:43:46on on redirect or
1:43:49she can clarify on cross if she wants
1:43:51that they were in fact getting ready to
1:43:53sell the house and one of the things
1:43:54they were doing was cleaning up that
1:43:55room
1:43:56what dan's asking about attacking the
1:43:58room
1:43:59without any context whatsoever um what
1:44:02does that have to do with miss brophy's
1:44:03testimony
1:44:05yeah all right i think it's the question
1:44:07which isn't hearsay because it's a
1:44:08question it's it's tethered to this
1:44:11specific time and date
1:44:14i i understand and i
1:44:16you know she'll
1:44:18answer the question which will provide
1:44:19the context uh so i will allow
1:44:23i will allow this
1:44:25are you asking to admit this or to show
1:44:27it to her
1:44:28i want to but i i want the i think that
1:44:32the date and time of this question is
1:44:35admissible to corroborate ms brophy's
1:44:38testimony that yes they were cleaning
1:44:41out the house before and one of the
1:44:42first things she did was to clean out
1:44:44susan's room which was the second
1:44:45bedroom downstairs
1:44:47and this is also the room
1:44:49that jack brophy had declared was filled
1:44:52with
1:44:53dan i think it was dan brophy's was a
1:44:56debris
1:44:57it was just dan debris dan debris dan
1:44:59debris
1:45:01so he had already referenced that and i
1:45:03will i want my client to talk about what
1:45:05was going on months before dan died
1:45:08but i think that the date stamp on this
1:45:10particular
1:45:12text message is relevant
1:45:14it came off of dan's phone
1:45:17the question that he's asking is not
1:45:19hearsay because it's a question
1:45:21and i want to be able to
1:45:23corroborate and bolster ms brophy's
1:45:26testimony regarding what was happening
1:45:28in that time frame all right did you
1:45:30want to add anything more let's service
1:45:32well first of all the idea that a
1:45:34question can't be hearsay is
1:45:36not true
1:45:37um questions can be here in fact it is
1:45:40offered for the truth of the matter
1:45:41asserted that they were
1:45:42cleaning the room that's what the
1:45:44question is and that's what they're
1:45:46offering it for so therefore it is
1:45:47hearsay
1:45:49all right
1:45:50so
1:45:51anything more no all right i would agree
1:45:54that questions can be hear say i'm not
1:45:57sure that this one is but in any event
1:45:59uh
1:46:02i'm gonna i'm gonna allow this and i
1:46:05don't know that this particular question
1:46:07is hearsay because if you just read it
1:46:09by itself
1:46:11i don't know if it's a statement really
1:46:12of anything i don't even know if one
1:46:14could even understand what it means
1:46:17without the context that
1:46:20your client will provide so i'll allow
1:46:23the question
1:46:24and the admission of this
1:46:26text
1:46:28thank you runner
1:46:31now i do have my glasses okay
1:46:40you since i have no idea
1:46:43sort of preparing for the inevitable and
1:46:45concerns about the length of the trial
1:46:48uh
1:46:49i'm not going to hold anyone to this but
1:46:51how much longer do you think
1:46:52cross-examination is roughly roughly
1:46:56it's really hard to say your honor okay
1:46:58because based on the answers okay and
1:47:00the length of the answer so i can't
1:47:02really say all right let me ask this
1:47:05then for the other witnesses that are
1:47:07lined up for defense
1:47:09which i think there were four or five i
1:47:11don't remember precisely do you have a
1:47:13rough ballpark of how long you think
1:47:15those other witnesses will take
1:47:20well i'm known for being overly
1:47:22optimistic about things like this i was
1:47:24gonna say they really shouldn't run more
1:47:26than about a half an hour each but
1:47:28that's not okay that gives me some idea
1:47:30all right okay
1:47:32let's uh let's bring the jury back
1:52:05and mrs brophy if we can have you retake
1:52:07the stand
1:52:26yes
1:52:28i can't see it
1:52:36so let me know when when you're ready
1:52:37okay
1:52:38i'm ready
1:52:47i want to talk to you about uh
1:52:49your familiarity with the oregon
1:52:51culinary institute okay um and i asked
1:52:53you if you could see states exhibit one
1:52:55and that's what you were saying yes you
1:52:57you can see that okay
1:52:59does that look familiar to you yes it
1:53:01does
1:53:03um how many times would you say you
1:53:04visited the oregon culinary institute
1:53:10um 100
1:53:14um
1:53:15have you been to most areas of the
1:53:17building
1:53:18i have been and before it was rci it was
1:53:22a division of western culinary so i have
1:53:25been there many times
1:53:27is that where you is that that's not the
1:53:29building that you went to culinary
1:53:30school no it's not okay
1:53:32um but when it was western culinary
1:53:34um
1:53:36if you you had familiarity with it then
1:53:38mm-hmm
1:53:39and then when it became the oregon
1:53:41culinary institute
1:53:43of course dan worked there
1:53:44okay so you think you've been there
1:53:46hundreds of times
1:53:48um
1:53:52is there any area that you hadn't
1:53:54haven't ever been in
1:53:58uh
1:54:00you can use the pointer there if you'd
1:54:01like all right
1:54:06this area it's not that i don't know
1:54:07that classroom is that i've really never
1:54:10been in there and this little closet
1:54:12area in here i've never been in there
1:54:14uh this became a classroom later
1:54:17uh but um i've certainly been in it when
1:54:20it was an empty space
1:54:22um other than that i would say no okay
1:54:25when you would come down to the culinary
1:54:27institute
1:54:30well there's been some testimony that
1:54:31used to come to the restaurant quite a
1:54:32bit
1:54:34where would you generally park and where
1:54:35would you go in
1:54:37uh
1:54:38you can have an hour's parking out in
1:54:40front and uh
1:54:42but i never parked the student parking
1:54:43lot it was too crowded uh so we either
1:54:46parked in our parking lot or across the
1:54:48street in front of starbucks in that
1:54:50area
1:54:51you would go in
1:54:53this entrance down here
1:54:55this entrance down here
1:54:58and then sit in the dining room
1:55:01and then when you came down to say bring
1:55:03dan something or
1:55:05um
1:55:06just come to visit
1:55:08or whatever
1:55:09where would you generally park and go
1:55:11and then
1:55:13a lot of times i wouldn't park at all a
1:55:15lot of times stan would leave the
1:55:16vehicle unlocked for me i would find for
1:55:18he'd parked i'd put stuff on a seat i'd
1:55:21lock his car i would get back in and go
1:55:24other times dan would meet me with a cup
1:55:26of coffee because he knows a good bribe
1:55:28and uh he would give me the coffee i'd
1:55:31give him whatever he'd forgotten at how
1:55:32at the house and i would not go in
1:55:35on the few occasions that i went in
1:55:39i would come into student interest
1:55:40because that was the one that was
1:55:41unlocked okay
1:55:44now you said that you visited the
1:55:45culinary institute a couple weeks prior
1:55:47to dan's death
1:55:49also on a saturday mm-hmm about 7 30 in
1:55:51the morning
1:55:52it could have been with cell site
1:55:54location information said that was 7 30
1:55:56would you agree with that i probably
1:55:58would yeah
1:55:59you said that day you were meeting a
1:56:00client and you decided to stop there to
1:56:02use the restroom right you said that dan
1:56:05uh had to let you in
1:56:07yes which door was that dan would have
1:56:09let me in
1:56:12the uh staff entrance
1:56:14which is uh down at the end of of that
1:56:17strip that 17th uh
1:56:19side door right and did you park on the
1:56:22street
1:56:23yes
1:56:24and he let you in that door yes he said
1:56:26you went to the restroom yes which
1:56:28restrooms did you go to i have no idea
1:56:31did you go to the ones in that main
1:56:32hallway or did you have to go somewhere
1:56:33else well the restrooms are
1:56:36here right and here so i went to one of
1:56:39them i have no idea which restroom i
1:56:41went to when you were using the restroom
1:56:43where did dan go
1:56:44he did whatever he does you know
1:56:47uh
1:56:48he was doing what his routine was or
1:56:50whatever what did you see him doing when
1:56:52you were in there
1:56:53well i was in the restroom i didn't see
1:56:55him doing anything not wearing the rest
1:56:56and when you're in the building
1:56:58uh i came out of the restroom he came
1:57:01out of one of the classrooms he walked
1:57:03me to the to the door and i left
1:57:06i you know there wasn't we didn't have
1:57:09social hour he was working i was born in
1:57:12the bathroom i had things to do he had
1:57:14things to do what were they what were
1:57:16the names of the other people that were
1:57:17there
1:57:18i didn't see anybody there but
1:57:21uh that didn't mean people weren't there
1:57:24i would have said yadu was there and i
1:57:26probably would have said the other
1:57:27instructor was there you didn't see or
1:57:29hear anyone did you
1:57:31not did i recall
1:57:33and that was on may 17th
1:57:36i'm not sure if the cell site location
1:57:38information put you at the school at 7
1:57:4030 on may 17th would you agree with that
1:57:45i'm not sure uh and the reason why i'm
1:57:48not sure is uh
1:57:50i'm just gonna say i'm not sure okay
1:57:54but you agree that it's two to three
1:57:55weeks prior
1:57:57something like that okay and you didn't
1:57:59go another time
1:58:00no
1:58:01okay
1:58:04so um being familiar with this building
1:58:08you knew there were no cameras in the
1:58:10building right
1:58:11you know that just never came up in the
1:58:13conversation i wouldn't have told you if
1:58:15there were cameras in the building or
1:58:16not you don't recall telling anybody
1:58:18that you knew there were no cameras in
1:58:19the building i may have said that
1:58:21because i may have known more five years
1:58:23ago than i know more now
1:58:27okay
1:58:28i know there was no cameras now
1:58:31because of all this all this thing all
1:58:35these things that have happened
1:58:38i can't really tell you although i may
1:58:40may have known it whether there were
1:58:42cameras before that i just don't
1:58:45remember if i knew that before
1:58:48what about outside the building did you
1:58:49see any cameras
1:58:53once again i wasn't looking
1:58:55what about over at bmw or yeah what was
1:58:59bmw was prior to the property room did
1:59:01you see any cameras over there
1:59:06not looking i i wasn't paying enough
1:59:09attention to have told you that did you
1:59:11see any cameras when in any of the
1:59:13visits that you
1:59:14came down to the oregon culinaries to do
1:59:17couldn't tell you
1:59:18when did you find out about mark's death
1:59:25i can't tell you the exact time but i
1:59:27can tell you the day and it was uh
1:59:30mark died on uh
1:59:33june 22nd what were you doing when you
1:59:35got that call
1:59:37uh
1:59:39i can't even tell you for susan or holly
1:59:41who called me i talked to both of them
1:59:42and i don't know who told me that
1:59:44but uh
1:59:46uh sarah not susan rawley sarah or holly
1:59:51uh
1:59:51sarah and i sarah said can i come over
1:59:54and i said sure but whatever i was doing
1:59:56it was probably wandering around in a
1:59:58fog anyway so i have no idea what i was
2:00:01doing
2:00:02so did you find out on a phone call or
2:00:05would it is it better if i sit back a
2:00:07little
2:00:08um
2:00:09did i yes i found out on a phone call
2:00:12what about
2:00:13ed
2:00:15what were you doing
2:00:18uh
2:00:19i think cousin janet was there when we
2:00:21found out about ed
2:00:23uh
2:00:25i uh
2:00:27we both knew he was in bad health but uh
2:00:30i think cousin janet uh may have gotten
2:00:33the text or a phone call or something
2:00:35from that so we knew
2:00:39and
2:00:40you've seen all the video
2:00:42of you driving around downtown at this
2:00:44point right yes
2:00:46seeing the
2:00:48he's still photographs from that
2:00:51and you you testify it on direct
2:00:54that
2:00:56it looked like you
2:00:57looked like your van
2:01:00you didn't
2:01:02quite say you do agree that that is you
2:01:05at this point right
2:01:09you know
2:01:10i do
2:01:11i do
2:01:12but i would say
2:01:13that it took me a while to get to that
2:01:15stage yeah
2:01:18but as you sit here today you agree that
2:01:20it is you driving that van that morning
2:01:23yes but i also think that
2:01:26uh
2:01:28only because of the date stamp can i
2:01:30tell on the things can i tell you it was
2:01:32that morning
2:01:38you're not challenging that
2:01:41you're agreeing that that is you
2:01:43we have more things to challenge than me
2:01:45driving around
2:01:46in this case
2:01:49you would agree that you're driving
2:01:50around and at the
2:01:52in front of the culinary institute
2:01:54at the exact time that dan is being
2:01:56murdered
2:01:59i no actually i don't agree with that i
2:02:02was driving around for a full hour
2:02:04before dan got murdered i was down there
2:02:07before dan ever got to school i was
2:02:10driving around riding
2:02:12for a full hour i was only in that
2:02:14vicinity for six minutes and i don't
2:02:16know that dan was murdered in that six
2:02:19minutes
2:02:20uh you know we agree that he we agree
2:02:23that he was murdered in that time frame
2:02:26but in terms of
2:02:28when he arrived and shortly thereafter
2:02:30but whether it's not that six minutes or
2:02:32not i don't know
2:02:35i'm sorry did you just say that you were
2:02:36driving around writing
2:02:38yes that's what i was doing
2:02:40was driving around riding i testified to
2:02:42that yesterday that i would find a place
2:02:44to park and i'd jot down ideas i thought
2:02:46you didn't know that you were driving
2:02:49yesterday what i testified for was that
2:02:52when i was sitting in there i could
2:02:54remember
2:02:56being in the uh
2:02:57being in the
2:02:59parking lot
2:03:00writing
2:03:01didn't i say that yesterday no
2:03:04no so let's let's go back over okay
2:03:06let's go back
2:03:08view so it says brophy don't ask
2:03:11questions mr overstreet don't answer
2:03:13questions
2:03:14sorry
2:03:17so
2:03:20yesterday
2:03:21you stated that you remembered a time
2:03:24being in that area
2:03:26and you were riding
2:03:28there was a white van
2:03:30there was a man going back and forth
2:03:31between the white van and some other
2:03:33location you assumed that he was working
2:03:35on the van
2:03:37it was distracting to you
2:03:39and that you decided to leave do you
2:03:40remember that
2:03:42is that is that accurate yeah okay
2:03:46your attorney then asked you if that was
2:03:48on june 2nd
2:03:50and i said i did not know right
2:03:53so if you do not know you have no memory
2:03:56of driving around downtown on the
2:03:58morning of june 2nd how can you sit here
2:04:00today and say that i was driving around
2:04:02writing
2:04:04because if i was down there that's what
2:04:06i was doing and you're right i stand
2:04:08corrected that i should have answered
2:04:11the question differently and said i
2:04:12don't know
2:04:13but i do know based upon the time stamps
2:04:16that i was down there an hour before dan
2:04:19died
2:04:20and that i was only down there for
2:04:24six minutes or less from the time
2:04:27that he signed into the building
2:04:30until you see me again leaving the area
2:04:32right
2:04:33that six minutes
2:04:35you just happen to be
2:04:36in front of the culinary institute
2:04:38during that time no i wasn't did you see
2:04:40the video where you can see your van
2:04:43turning off of 17th on to jefferson at 7
2:04:4628 a.m i can i did see that but that
2:04:49doesn't mean i was in front of them the
2:04:51culinary institute that means i would
2:04:53have come up from another street
2:04:55to have gotten there
2:04:57but you're not seen on any other cameras
2:04:58until that moment ah but
2:05:04as you all testified if there's a train
2:05:07you can't see when people cross medicine
2:05:11so i could have been
2:05:13and what i actually think i was if this
2:05:15is having thought about it for a while
2:05:17is in another parking lot off madison
2:05:21at that point so i can say
2:05:23at 7 28 i definitely turned the van and
2:05:27was driving uh there and we all saw it
2:05:29but i have no idea and i know i wasn't
2:05:32parked in front of the building so what
2:05:34i would have been is riding someplace
2:05:36else and coming around now i'm doing
2:05:37this based upon putting stuff back
2:05:40together not based upon actual memory
2:05:42right you said you know that you
2:05:44wouldn't have been parked in front of
2:05:45the building but how would you know that
2:05:46because i would have gone inside because
2:05:48i would have said hey dan how are you
2:05:50because um
2:05:52i when dan came out of the building he
2:05:54would have said hey nancy how are you
2:05:56you know this is we're not foreigners we
2:05:58know each other how do you know you
2:06:00didn't go in the building
2:06:02i know i didn't go in the building
2:06:03because i didn't kill dan
2:06:05you know i know that for a fact
2:06:08if you have no memory
2:06:10how do you know you didn't go in the
2:06:11building
2:06:14you know
2:06:15i'm reconstructing this but i'm
2:06:17reconstructing this based upon what i
2:06:18know in my heart and what i know in my
2:06:20heart is the reason why i have no memory
2:06:23is because i was stunned by the fact dan
2:06:25was dead
2:06:27and i wouldn't have been stunned if i'd
2:06:29been in the building and shot him
2:06:32i didn't suggest that you did go in to
2:06:34shoot him
2:06:35what i'm suggesting and asking okay is
2:06:38did you just go in the building and how
2:06:40would you know if you didn't
2:06:42i agree that uh
2:06:45but
2:06:46he wasn't part of my focus that morning
2:06:48my focus was on my story and getting it
2:06:50out and getting it done you know
2:06:53uh and dan is at work
2:06:55you know
2:06:57you don't your wife doesn't drop in to
2:06:58see you at work just because she's
2:07:00driving by you know she assumes you're
2:07:02working i assume dan is working you did
2:07:04it two weeks prior
2:07:06i did it for a specific purpose which
2:07:08was to go to the bathroom right so miss
2:07:10brophy
2:07:11would you agree that it's possible that
2:07:12you went into the oci on the morning of
2:07:14june 2nd
2:07:16to use the bathroom no i wouldn't
2:07:18impossible i would say was impossible
2:07:21even though you have no memory of it
2:07:22even though i have no memory of it
2:07:32where did you normally go to get
2:07:33starbucks
2:07:36it depended on where i was going that
2:07:38morning
2:07:40if i was going to mcminnville there's a
2:07:43starbucks
2:07:45as i've drive down 217 that i can hop
2:07:47off on
2:07:48if i was going to uh
2:07:52oregon city uh american city
2:07:57oregon city
2:07:59uh
2:08:01if i was going to oregon city what i
2:08:03actually did was i didn't stop for
2:08:05starbucks because there was a starbucks
2:08:07in the fred meyers where i was going so
2:08:09i would have gone there uh if i was at
2:08:12home
2:08:13uh there's a starbucks on beaverton
2:08:15hillsdale highway right by jesuit high
2:08:17school there's a starbucks on hall where
2:08:20it intersects with um
2:08:23right across from the beaverton mall
2:08:25those are the two i tend to go to
2:08:27occasion occasionally but if i have time
2:08:29and i'm going to sit there and write
2:08:31then i usually go to the one at 17th and
2:08:35um
2:08:3817th and canyon
2:08:41which is just the other side
2:08:44other side of 26 right
2:08:47no the other side
2:08:49217 that's what
2:08:51um other side of 217 from your from your
2:08:53house
2:08:56okay so
2:08:57have you taken a look at your bank
2:08:58records
2:08:59i have not
2:09:01in preparation for this trial you
2:09:03haven't seen your bank records uh well i
2:09:05saw months and months ago okay
2:09:07uh and you've heard testimony that you
2:09:09go to starbucks quite a bit i do um i
2:09:12think somebody said almost a thousand
2:09:14dollars in a year or something like that
2:09:16yeah i was shocked by that figure too i
2:09:18think we all would be
2:09:19um
2:09:22but there's no charge for starbucks on
2:09:23the morning of june 2nd
2:09:25yes but if you go through my bankrupt
2:09:27records you will see there's no charge
2:09:28for starbucks a lot of days when i know
2:09:31that i had coffee you know if i had cash
2:09:33i could have paid cash keep in mind that
2:09:36i don't have my purse with me because
2:09:38i'm not carrying a purse
2:09:40i'm not wearing a bra so i don't have a
2:09:43credit card with me i don't have uh
2:09:46my phone with me so i would have had
2:09:48cash and just given it to them
2:09:52it makes more sense you'd have cash over
2:09:54a card
2:09:55it makes more sense if i don't have a
2:09:56bra that i don't have a card with
2:09:58me and you do agree you left your phone
2:10:01at home that morning i agree i wasn't
2:10:02wearing a bra so my phone wouldn't have
2:10:04been in my bra
2:10:07right
2:10:09so you're just this day is the day that
2:10:12you paid cash at starbucks i pay cash at
2:10:14starbucks a fair amount
2:10:24so
2:10:25in the morning if dan doesn't bring you
2:10:27coffee it would be normal for you to get
2:10:29up
2:10:30not fully get dressed run to starbucks
2:10:33use cash use a card who cares right
2:10:35go back home
2:10:37and and
2:10:39write
2:10:43on a day when i wasn't committed to
2:10:44doing something else right but on june
2:10:472nd
2:10:48now you're saying that morning you got
2:10:51up
2:10:51well let's let's let's take a step back
2:10:54okay
2:10:55the night before
2:10:57your testimony was that you went to
2:10:58sleep
2:11:00late or went to bed late
2:11:02and when you went to bed you went up to
2:11:03that attic bedroom yes and dan was
2:11:06already in bed yes
2:11:08and he was asleep yes
2:11:12and the reason you went to bed late was
2:11:13because of a leak
2:11:15is that
2:11:16the reason you went to bed later it just
2:11:17happened to be no i frequently went to
2:11:20bed much later than dan
2:11:22dan went to bed early because he got up
2:11:24early okay what time did he go to bed
2:11:25that night i don't know okay what time
2:11:28did you go to bed i don't know that well
2:11:30he said it was late what's what's your
2:11:31reference well it was later in the day
2:11:33my reference point was that there was
2:11:35water on the floor okay and the water on
2:11:37the floor i was trying to clean it up
2:11:39enough that uh you know we didn't step
2:11:41in it in the middle of night and didn't
2:11:43make it worse which sink are you talking
2:11:45about the sink in the bathroom upstairs
2:11:48so my bedroom is long and narrow
2:11:51and right off of my bedroom to the left
2:11:54is a bathroom
2:11:55and
2:11:57as i stepped in there i could
2:12:00we go from carpeting to sheet goods and
2:12:02i could feel the water under my feet
2:12:05okay
2:12:06i think it was maybe just a little
2:12:07confusing there was some testimony about
2:12:09something some a problem with the
2:12:10kitchen sink you're not talking about
2:12:12the kitchen no and i thought that
2:12:15was not uh
2:12:17i thought it was confusing but i also
2:12:18thought at that point i was probably
2:12:20being making a point rather than
2:12:22pointing to the right sink just pointing
2:12:24to a sink in general okay fair enough i
2:12:27just want to make sure we're talking
2:12:28about the right thing right i just
2:12:29wasn't clear on that so you're talking
2:12:30about the sync with the leak that was of
2:12:32concern
2:12:33on june 1st
2:12:35was in the bathroom upstairs
2:12:37okay
2:12:38so you kind of clean it up
2:12:40you go to bed late
2:12:42it sounds like maybe you woke up at some
2:12:43point in the night i wake up every night
2:12:45in the middle of the night do you have a
2:12:46specific recollection of waking up in
2:12:48the middle of the night
2:12:49okay
2:12:50um
2:12:51and by that you mean like you have to
2:12:52use the restroom or something or you
2:12:54know i really don't sleep very well at
2:12:56all and i particularly don't sleep when
2:12:58i'm wound up and when i'm working on a
2:13:00story i'm wound up so i'm just not a
2:13:03great sleeper anyway anymore so when you
2:13:06wake up
2:13:07was dan already up
2:13:10yes dan was standing
2:13:14over the sink in the bathroom
2:13:17and what was he doing
2:13:19he was
2:13:20he said why are why do we have all these
2:13:21towels in the sink
2:13:24and so that was
2:13:27what we talked about was the fact that i
2:13:29think there's a leak
2:13:30and i had
2:13:32built underneath but i couldn't feel it
2:13:34you'd on the whatever that long pipe's
2:13:36called
2:13:37that
2:13:38and uh
2:13:40and
2:13:42he said well i'll get something uh
2:13:48he said i'll get something
2:13:50or maybe i know he got something because
2:13:52i saw it i'm not sure which way this is
2:13:54the truth here
2:13:55uh
2:13:56but when i dealt with it later there was
2:13:59a white bucket underneath but i the last
2:14:02thing i saw him doing was taking the wet
2:14:05towels down the stairs
2:14:08that's the last time you saw him
2:14:11you talked about a leak he walked
2:14:12downstairs with some wet towels
2:14:14you stayed in bed
2:14:16oh no this is where i got up
2:14:18and threw on a minimum amount of clothes
2:14:20and
2:14:21uh ran to get coffee
2:14:26i thought your testimony was you don't
2:14:27remember going to get coffee
2:14:29i don't remember going to get coffee but
2:14:31i do remember throwing on some clothes
2:14:33and uh
2:14:34leaving the house
2:14:37that wasn't your testimony yesterday
2:14:39that i didn't throw on clothes and knew
2:14:41that you got dressed but you said you
2:14:42didn't have any recollection of leaving
2:14:44to go get coffee
2:14:46well
2:14:47i think we're splitting hairs here i
2:14:49don't remember getting coffee and agree
2:14:51to disagree on that but okay okay
2:14:55which is it miss brophy
2:14:57do you remember going to get coffee or
2:15:00i do not remember getting coffee i
2:15:02remember putting on clothes and heading
2:15:04downstairs that's almost always a
2:15:06prelude to i'm going to get coffee and
2:15:08dan was already gone by time he got
2:15:09downstairs oh no dan was dan would have
2:15:12been there for uh
2:15:14quite a bit longer i was expecting to
2:15:15get coffee and be back before he was out
2:15:17of the shower and dressed and everything
2:15:19else you know you see him
2:15:23no he's in the basement he took the wet
2:15:25towels down okay
2:15:28so he's still there but you didn't see
2:15:29him
2:15:30he's still there
2:15:31so now you remember
2:15:33you went downstairs you got dressed you
2:15:35went downstairs okay and i have a real
2:15:37problem with this and i have to
2:15:39apologize to you because
2:15:41what i do is i reconstruct based upon
2:15:44what i know would have happened not what
2:15:45actually happened so allow me to
2:15:47apologize for the fact that i am
2:15:49misleading you here and that was not
2:15:50intentional
2:15:52what i would tell you is
2:15:55i don't remember running into dan
2:15:57but if i would have i think i would have
2:16:00remembered it uh he's downstairs i'm
2:16:02assuming dealing with the uh
2:16:05the towels
2:16:07i'm assuming
2:16:08that most mornings i'm right back in bed
2:16:11before he ever leaves okay so what time
2:16:12did you leave i have no idea what time
2:16:15did you get back i have no idea
2:16:18what i know is the last time somebody
2:16:20saw me
2:16:21was i was in a video at 7 28
2:16:27right
2:16:29so that morning you wake up you get
2:16:31dressed you go downstairs you leave
2:16:34you don't have any recollection as to
2:16:37where you went
2:16:39no
2:16:40and you don't know how long you were
2:16:41gone
2:16:42i know from
2:16:44from your memory memory no
2:16:47you have no idea how long you were gone
2:16:49no i have none
2:16:51uh you know now that your phone was not
2:16:54with you
2:16:54yes
2:16:56when you got back was dan still there
2:16:59no
2:17:00and but i couldn't even tell you wait
2:17:02once again i'm filling in for lengths i
2:17:05don't know that dan was there or not
2:17:08there what i remember
2:17:09is
2:17:11that i was sitting bed riding when
2:17:13maxine called there's a huge little
2:17:16blanket there i know you jumped ahead
2:17:18with your lawyer i'm not we're gonna go
2:17:19slower okay
2:17:25so you
2:17:27assume you go get coffee
2:17:30get home you don't know if dan's still
2:17:32there or not
2:17:33i don't remember dan still there don't
2:17:35remember
2:17:36you do remember
2:17:39some point you're back in bed
2:17:42yes because maxine called and i was in
2:17:44bed riding and what time was that
2:17:47i don't remember that either maxine
2:17:49called what 9 30 10 o'clock somewhere in
2:17:52there sure
2:17:53you remember that
2:17:55i remember maxine calling and you
2:17:56remember what she told you i do you
2:17:59remember how you responded yes
2:18:01and then you remember uh calling dan yes
2:18:05you remember tech trying to text dan yes
2:18:07you remember him not answering or
2:18:09responding to your text i do
2:18:12you then called maxine bourgeting back
2:18:14right you had it you remember that
2:18:16conversation right you got the phone
2:18:18with her you called
2:18:20karen brophy right you remember that
2:18:22conversation i do
2:18:24you remember after that that you got
2:18:26dressed
2:18:28yes well yes yes got your phone
2:18:32got grabbed all my stuff got your stuff
2:18:35went downtown
2:18:37drove downtown
2:18:39and when you drove downtown did you take
2:18:41the normal way that you would drive when
2:18:43you were going to the culinary institute
2:18:46i'm going to say
2:18:48that technically
2:18:49i don't really remember but based upon
2:18:52habit i would have bet money on it
2:18:54so the same road that we see you coming
2:18:56in on on jefferson earlier in the
2:18:58morning that's the route that you most
2:19:00likely would have taken
2:19:01okay
2:19:02so when you came in
2:19:03when you get to that roundabout
2:19:06did you go down columbia and turn on
2:19:0717th
2:19:16yes
2:19:17and i parked
2:19:19at potluck in the park
2:19:25tricky here i want to show you a map
2:19:31i'm showing you what's march of states
2:19:33exhibit 95
2:19:35i talked about the roundabout
2:19:36when you came in here
2:19:38did you come down to 17 and park on this
2:19:41corner right here i didn't park on the
2:19:42corner i parked right right in there yes
2:19:45there's like a few spots there well
2:19:48they're delivery driveway
2:19:50and i don't think they think they're
2:19:51spots i think i just created a spot so
2:19:54you didn't come in drive around lincoln
2:19:57and come up jefferson right
2:20:00if we're talking about
2:20:02i if we're talking about after maxine
2:20:05called
2:20:10well the video shows i'm down there
2:20:11another time
2:20:13to the point in the morning where you've
2:20:14talked to maxine you've talked about
2:20:15right
2:20:16right and so i would have gone exactly
2:20:18the way you showed and parked it in part
2:20:20look in the park so you came down here
2:20:22turn on 17th park somewhere in here
2:20:24right
2:20:26right okay and then where did you walk
2:20:28to from there
2:20:29can i use the pointer yes please
2:20:32all right so
2:20:33there was policeman
2:20:37sorry
2:20:38there was a police tape ran from this
2:20:40corner right here across the street so
2:20:43that you could not
2:20:44uh turn
2:20:46either on to 17th or continue on
2:20:50right in the middle of the street was a
2:20:51police car
2:20:53i walked from here to the police car
2:20:56okay
2:20:58and you said you interacted with a
2:21:00police officer at that point
2:21:01a male police officer yes
2:21:03and he directed you to go somewhere
2:21:07i said i'm nancy brophy and he said wait
2:21:09here and he said i want you wait over
2:21:11there by that building which that
2:21:13building was the corner of
2:21:16directly opposite of
2:21:18of oci okay and i went stood over there
2:21:22and uh he brought other officers okay
2:21:26is that when uh officer wells came and
2:21:28gave you a hug
2:21:31when officers wills gave me a hug
2:21:34we had walked from the corner i would
2:21:37gone around the corner and come up uh
2:21:41the 17th
2:21:43and so we were probably real frankly
2:21:46writing about where the ab is on this
2:21:48sign
2:21:49and uh they had said we want you to
2:21:51stand back over here
2:21:53so that you're out of the range of the
2:21:54camera from the press
2:21:56and i said okay and i'm crying and
2:21:59that's when officer wills gave me a hug
2:22:01okay and did she tell you anything
2:22:05she told me she would like to be married
2:22:06to a chef
2:22:09okay
2:22:10did you tell you anything else
2:22:14not that i can recall okay
2:22:17and did you speak with uh the tips
2:22:20volunteer before
2:22:22you went into the banner after i did not
2:22:24speak with them before okay and she
2:22:27i was in the van and they escorted her
2:22:29in
2:22:30do you recall seeing brian wilkie and
2:22:34yes okay where was he
2:22:42they they were across madison
2:22:45and there was uh brian wilkie and uh
2:22:49i know woody bailey was with him there
2:22:51were two or three other people who were
2:22:52kind of all standing together over here
2:22:59and you recall when the detectives
2:23:01walked up to you and said they wanted to
2:23:02speak with you in the van
2:23:06it was in that period of time and you
2:23:08remember getting in the van
2:23:09yes you remember where the detectives
2:23:11sat
2:23:12yes you remember having a conversation
2:23:14that was recorded with them yes
2:23:17yes uh
2:23:18you don't necessarily remember all the
2:23:19conversation
2:23:22i would tell you it's spotty but i've
2:23:23heard that tape enough that i can tell
2:23:25you what uh what was on the tape is
2:23:28there anything inaccurate that you were
2:23:30reporting to the police
2:23:32not intentionally
2:23:34someone asked
2:23:39when the police said to me where were
2:23:40you this morning i told him where i was
2:23:43and i told him where i was based upon
2:23:45the fact that when maxine called me
2:23:46that's where i was in fact what you told
2:23:48the police were
2:23:50you were in bed
2:23:51okay you woke up when dan came upstairs
2:23:54yes
2:23:56that he came upstairs to take a shower
2:23:58yes
2:23:59that after he got out of the shower you
2:24:01two discussed the leak
2:24:03i told him after the shower well maybe i
2:24:06don't know that you specified exactly
2:24:07when but
2:24:08well we're on veracity here so we need
2:24:10to be accurate well you tell me
2:24:12i don't think i told him it was after
2:24:14the shower okay was it before
2:24:16i did i think my memory is that i don't
2:24:19remember if you'd taken a shower or not
2:24:21that's why i was surprised you said that
2:24:22okay but you told the police that
2:24:25you could have been well you said you've
2:24:26heard the tape i've heard the tape okay
2:24:28you told them that you took a shower i'm
2:24:30sorry that mr brophy took a shower
2:24:33i think i told him he came upstairs to
2:24:35take a shower i don't think i told him
2:24:36he took a shower he said that after the
2:24:38shower he got dressed and left
2:24:40do you remember that no
2:24:42but i may have said it and you said that
2:24:44he left it 705 to 7 10 inch remember
2:24:46that
2:24:47yes but that was based upon when he
2:24:49always left okay
2:24:51but you just testified to something
2:24:52completely different
2:24:54here's the thing is that
2:24:56no i i'm still on the same thing
2:24:59i testified to the fact that i was
2:25:02trying to help the police
2:25:04so that they had an idea of what dan did
2:25:06in the morning i didn't think this whole
2:25:08thing had a damn thing to do with me i
2:25:10thought it had to do with uh
2:25:12what was dan doing what can you do what
2:25:14can you tell us to help us so we know
2:25:17what his routine is so was what you told
2:25:20the police inaccurate
2:25:21it could have been but at that point i
2:25:23was screaming in my brain
2:25:25dan is dead dan is dead and if i was
2:25:28inaccurate it was not to mislead them
2:25:37do you remember going into quite a bit
2:25:38of detail with the detectives even
2:25:40regarding dan's uh
2:25:42accident the prior week when he cut his
2:25:43hand
2:25:44i could have yes
2:25:46heard that on the tape though
2:26:01you've seen the video
2:26:03heard the testimony
2:26:09you would agree that the critical
2:26:10moments
2:26:12that you've been asked about
2:26:14your responses have been you don't
2:26:15remember
2:26:19critical moments that i have been asked
2:26:21about my response i don't remember is
2:26:24the most accurate thing i can tell you
2:26:28right but at the critical moments that
2:26:30you were there
2:26:31in the area
2:26:35at the same time
2:26:37that someone happens to be shooting your
2:26:38husband
2:26:40within a six-minute window
2:26:42with the exact type of gun that you own
2:26:46and is now mysteriously missing
2:26:53that's
2:26:54your version of what happened that is
2:26:56not my version the only thing i know for
2:26:58sure is i did not kill dan and i have no
2:27:01problem with that i know i didn't get
2:27:03kill dan with the gun that was put
2:27:05together the gun that wasn't put
2:27:07together or the slide that we can't
2:27:09fight
2:27:10but
2:27:11you know when your husband dies
2:27:13everything around you grinds to a halt
2:27:16and when i told the police
2:27:19the police said this is a death
2:27:21notification
2:27:23but it wasn't a death notification it
2:27:24was an in-depth interview as seen by the
2:27:27fact you're bringing up every moment of
2:27:29as we're coming back
2:27:31and at death notification they would
2:27:32have said we can see you're upset let us
2:27:35schedule an appointment let us come back
2:27:37and see you this afternoon let us do
2:27:39something different instead they
2:27:40hammered away would quit at me it with
2:27:42questions hammer hammer hammer and i can
2:27:45tell you this i tried to help them the
2:27:47absolute best i could i tried to give
2:27:50them what i knew was his routine i tried
2:27:53to help them in any way i could
2:27:56and the fact that you have managed to
2:27:59construct the case against me out of
2:28:00that
2:28:01is you've constructed a case but i think
2:28:04your case is held together with real
2:28:06frankly band-aids
2:28:08you know
2:28:10anything else you want to add to that no
2:28:12i think i'm done
2:28:13probably more than i want to be
2:28:16isn't it possible with your memory
2:28:18problems of the morning
2:28:20that you actually went into the building
2:28:22and shot your husband
2:28:24and you just don't remember no it is not
2:28:28no it is not because the one thing i
2:28:29knew i had a strong thing is the last
2:28:32time i saw dan
2:28:33i see dan every day i talked to him
2:28:36every day this is not a man i would have
2:28:38shot because i had a memory issue it
2:28:40seems to me like if i had shot him i
2:28:42would know every detail
2:28:44you know i could have told you all sorts
2:28:47of things that was true i did not shoot
2:28:49my husband and i don't know even how to
2:28:53defend myself against the truth you know
2:29:00we've talked a lot about dan
2:29:03talked about the
2:29:04devastation to his family yes to the
2:29:07community
2:29:09and you've seen the devastation in
2:29:11person
2:29:13right multiple times over and over
2:29:16all the people reaching out to you
2:29:18the memorials
2:29:20and the testimony in court yes
2:29:25you would agree that up until the time
2:29:26that you took the stand
2:29:28you you didn't really show a lot of
2:29:30emotion in this in this trial
2:29:35no i wouldn't agree with that at all the
2:29:37fact i didn't cry doesn't mean that i
2:29:40didn't show emotion or that i didn't
2:29:42have emotion it's mean i didn't do the
2:29:44overt thing what i would tell you is it
2:29:46wouldn't have mattered if i'd cried or
2:29:48not because if i had cried you would be
2:29:51sitting here saying to me do you agree
2:29:53that you were overly dramatic
2:29:55so i don't think there's a win-win in
2:29:57this conversation for me
2:30:00you chose to take the stand
2:30:02i chose to take the stand explain your
2:30:04side of the story tell my size of story
2:30:07which i might point out i have been
2:30:09absolutely quiet about
2:30:12from the day dan died to now
2:30:15i have not had press interviews i have
2:30:17not done any of the things that uh where
2:30:20i could have told my story early
2:30:23okay
2:30:26when i talk about emotion or lack
2:30:28thereof while you're sitting over there
2:30:30at council table listening to testimony
2:30:34you agree that you you actually
2:30:36laughed on quite a few occasions is that
2:30:38right
2:30:40the fact that when i think about dan it
2:30:42still gives me joy i do laugh
2:30:44i love people who come up and say to me
2:30:47and i've had several people who've said
2:30:48this in the last four years dan was my
2:30:51teacher i loved him and i said tell me
2:30:52stories about him because
2:30:55that gives me joy
2:30:57you know yes i find that you know am i
2:31:00brokenhearted i'm brokenhearted am i
2:31:02delighted to hear stories from people
2:31:04who loved him as much as i did yeah
2:31:07i am hearing those stories make you
2:31:09emotional as well
2:31:11talking about dan period makes me
2:31:13emotional
2:31:15but a lot of the people who tried who
2:31:17came up and cried but they weren't
2:31:18crying for dan they were crying for
2:31:20themselves i had a horrible experience
2:31:22happen to me i'm crying and i am
2:31:25empathetic to that but when karen brophy
2:31:27teared up my heart broke because i knew
2:31:30she loved him as much as i did and i
2:31:33knew
2:31:33that she was crying for dan not for some
2:31:36other reason what about the students
2:31:38that knew dan and loved him
2:31:41the students at new dan and loved him
2:31:43didn't testify earlier who testified a
2:31:46lot of earlier was the instructor
2:31:49two or three of the people who had been
2:31:51in the pastry class and i am
2:31:54grateful to them for the fact they did
2:31:56what they could do do not misunderstand
2:31:58me but i don't think it changed their
2:32:01life they went back to school the next
2:32:03weekend they graduated from the program
2:32:05they weren't testifying they had to have
2:32:07counseling as a result of this
2:32:09i'm saying the people whose heart were
2:32:11broken the people who missed it and
2:32:12loved the most
2:32:15[Music]
2:32:17the people who loved him the most
2:32:21i would i cried with him because we know
2:32:26did you just testify and say that the
2:32:28person who literally tried to save his
2:32:30life was not negatively affected by this
2:32:33no i said she went on with her life that
2:32:36she didn't i did not say that she had a
2:32:38horrible experience i said i was
2:32:40empathetic to that experience
2:32:42uh but i also
2:32:44know that she wasn't crying that day in
2:32:46court because of that she was crying
2:32:48because she had had a terrible
2:32:49experience and it affected her with bad
2:32:52memories but it did not stop her life
2:32:55her life went on
2:32:57her life she went back to school she
2:32:59graduated with the program
2:33:01you know
2:33:02it stopped my life it stopped the
2:33:05brophy's life
2:33:06there were students he had whose life
2:33:08had stopped and and co-workers he had
2:33:11who were truly truly broken-hearted ms
2:33:14brophy did you listen to the testimony
2:33:16of clarendon perez i did
2:33:18and i've heard it three times now the
2:33:20first time she told me
2:33:22i cried this because she told me in
2:33:24person every time she's been on the
2:33:26stand clarinda perez has sobbed and
2:33:28sobbed
2:33:29and
2:33:31i am sympathetic every time she does it
2:33:33i know she went through a terrible
2:33:34experience
2:33:36but
2:33:38she's not crying for dance she's crying
2:33:40for the terrible experience she had
2:33:42you mentioned that i'm asking about your
2:33:44feelings okay what what let me ask a
2:33:48question again please you you listened
2:33:50to clarinda perez testified about her
2:33:52experience right
2:33:54now she saw dan on the ground
2:33:58she knew cpr
2:34:00she took it upon herself to try to save
2:34:02his life yes
2:34:04you failed
2:34:05yes
2:34:07she felt that
2:34:08yes
2:34:10you saw her tell that story
2:34:13on the stand
2:34:15uh-huh
2:34:17it was absolutely devastated about that
2:34:20experience
2:34:21no i disagree with you entirely on that
2:34:24i think she had a terrible experience i
2:34:27think
2:34:27that it was a bone jarring experience
2:34:30for i think she did everything she could
2:34:33and she was proud of the fact and i was
2:34:35proud for her that she did everything
2:34:37she could
2:34:38but when she's crying five years after
2:34:40the fact because it was a terrible
2:34:42experience i think she's crying for the
2:34:44fact she had a horrible experience not
2:34:47for the fact that dan brophy a man she
2:34:49barely knew died keep mentioning that
2:34:51we're gonna play what's uh marked as
2:34:53states exhibit 116.
2:35:02yes
2:35:13play just real briefly
2:35:15and have you identify the voice
2:35:24so far they haven't covered anything
2:35:27what does that sound like
2:35:29well i'm also looking where it says call
2:35:31to sarah sarah gitzel so i'm assuming
2:35:34that's sarah gitchell
2:35:35who's the voice that you hear yes that's
2:35:38my voice that's your voice yes this is a
2:35:40phone call that you made to sarah
2:35:41gitchell could be yes
2:35:44that's what it says okay
2:35:46why don't we go and go back to the
2:35:47beginning
2:35:49play that
2:35:51so far they haven't covered anything
2:35:53that we didn't know i mean they had all
2:35:56these little girls who cried today uh
2:35:59you know and i've seen all these little
2:36:01girls well i've seen particularly the uh
2:36:05spanish girls cry three times now so you
2:36:08know the cheap price off cue
2:36:13didn't i just say essentially that
2:36:15that's your response
2:36:17after hearing these people testify to
2:36:19their
2:36:20experience that's what you thought about
2:36:22that
2:36:23i thought it was interesting that
2:36:25corinda perez when she told me did not
2:36:27cry when she's on the stand she cries
2:36:30and she sobs and she carries on i think
2:36:33she has
2:36:34i think she had a terrible terrible
2:36:37experience that i totally totally agree
2:36:39with and i am sympathetic to that but i
2:36:42also think she can cry on cue when she
2:36:44gets on stand
2:36:46because she didn't cry when she told me
2:36:49she told me and i cried you know when we
2:36:52went to an event that she came up and
2:36:53said i am the person who did cpr and i
2:36:57immediately burst into tears you know
2:36:59and she told me the story and i told her
2:37:02how wonderful i thought she was you know
2:37:04that she had done that but you seem to
2:37:07be a couple steps ahead of me throughout
2:37:09the year you're expecting this
2:37:12i don't know if expecting that is what i
2:37:14would say
2:37:15but i'm sorry i'll try and uh be quieter
2:37:20when you you keep saying clinda perez
2:37:22over and over and you keep mentioning
2:37:24her name
2:37:26in this audio you don't actually say
2:37:27clarinda perez okay
2:37:29is she the one you're referring to when
2:37:30you say the spanish girl
2:37:32i think she is i don't think the others
2:37:34were spanish but they could have been
2:37:36okay
2:37:37and isn't it did you see clarinda perez
2:37:40at the farm yard i i'm sorry about the
2:37:43name but the farmyard memorial in august
2:37:45that's where she told me okay isn't it
2:37:48true that when she came up to you and
2:37:49tried to talk to you you actually
2:37:50ignored her
2:37:52no it's not
2:37:57dr warford testified and called you a
2:37:59problem solver would you agree with that
2:38:02i think on my feet yes
2:38:05it's true
2:38:06you're not a lawyer right
2:38:08no you got a lot of lawyers in your
2:38:09family true including uh some of them
2:38:12that practice criminal defense
2:38:14yes
2:38:19miss brophy do you know where i can go
2:38:22in the
2:38:23metro area to rent night vision goggles
2:38:26i have no idea
2:38:28you know if there's a place i can go
2:38:29where i can just try them out handle
2:38:31them
2:38:32i have no idea
2:38:34but you bought a pair
2:38:36i had a person who worked for me who
2:38:38took a loan from me and that was what he
2:38:40used for collateral and you paid the
2:38:42loan back he got the night
2:38:44vision goggles back sorry the line of
2:38:46questioning with your lawyer was things
2:38:47that you had purchased in order to
2:38:49further your writing
2:38:51it could have yes i can see that but
2:38:54but in a way i purchased it if he had
2:38:57not come back and reclaimed it
2:38:59uh they would have been mine
2:39:04we heard from a few of your writer
2:39:05friends that are quite successful
2:39:08lots of published books and make a
2:39:10decent living
2:39:13that's not true for you though right
2:39:15ah
2:39:16no i i started most of those people
2:39:19started
2:39:20being published
2:39:23about five years earlier than i did and
2:39:25uh i have not been successful i have had
2:39:29i have sold books
2:39:30but i have not sold enough books to make
2:39:33me break out and have people say hey
2:39:35this is an author i remember but
2:39:37considering that with the advent of
2:39:39amazon that 10 000 uh books get
2:39:42published every month it's now harder to
2:39:44do that than it's been in the past right
2:39:47and you're actually a self-published
2:39:48office
2:39:50have you ever been published besides
2:39:52yourself yes i have what book was that
2:39:55it was a book called sex in the office
2:39:57it was published by um
2:40:00black lace publishing and it was part of
2:40:02an anthology
2:40:04when was that
2:40:15uh 2005 maybe 2006 somewhere in there
2:40:22not much success after that
2:40:24i would say publishing changed and
2:40:31i wouldn't say
2:40:33i would say it differently i would say i
2:40:35didn't get into
2:40:37romance writers
2:40:39with the idea that uh of being published
2:40:42that was never my goal my goal was to
2:40:44write because i like to write
2:40:46friends like salute said no
2:40:49you need to write toward getting
2:40:51published and we were friends long
2:40:52enough that i wrote toward getting
2:40:54published
2:40:55when did you start writing
2:41:01i can't remember a time i haven't
2:41:03written
2:41:04whole life whole life
2:41:06and
2:41:08when we talk about being published
2:41:10there's been some questions to you about
2:41:13this witch's book or which is trilogy
2:41:15that you wrote
2:41:18in this email that you got
2:41:20that was from a publisher that was from
2:41:23an uh
2:41:24a um
2:41:26agent an agent so not a publisher that's
2:41:29right there's an agent asking to see
2:41:31more of the writing
2:41:33so they could determine whether they
2:41:34were going to be interested in in
2:41:35purchasing it correct that's true no no
2:41:37no they weren't
2:41:39no
2:41:40an agent uh acts as your go-between a
2:41:43lot of editors won't look at your work
2:41:45without an agent
2:41:47so nobody was actually telling you they
2:41:48were buying that book nobody was telling
2:41:50me that no how many people do you think
2:41:52you sent that
2:41:54manuscript to
2:41:56i didn't send the manuscript to many
2:41:58people but i queried a lot of people
2:42:01you didn't send that manuscript to
2:42:04it at best i sent a chapter
2:42:07editors
2:42:08agents don't want to have you send their
2:42:11manuscript unrequested you send a little
2:42:13bit of the writing they look at it and
2:42:15say yes we're interested in this story
2:42:16no we're not
2:42:17i'm not an author so i don't necessarily
2:42:19i might be using the wrong terminology
2:42:20so feel free to correct me you sent a
2:42:22sample a p a piece of the story
2:42:25to how many people do you think oh
2:42:28oh i probably sent it out to uh
2:42:3210 to 20. you got rejected from all of
2:42:35them yes
2:42:36you got this one email about somebody
2:42:38who may be interested right
2:42:41you didn't respond to that email
2:42:43yes i did
2:42:45where's that
2:42:46ah i sent him the manuscript
2:42:49where's that
2:42:51what do you mean where is it it
2:42:52went magically my uh email to her i
2:42:57a few months later if you look down the
2:42:58road you'll see that
2:43:00she sent me a rejection letter
2:43:04and i would guess
2:43:06based upon what i know about this that
2:43:08it would take her 90 days to do that
2:43:13testified yesterday that you didn't know
2:43:15anything about guns
2:43:18so you had to do some research that's
2:43:19true
2:43:21and that began in 2017
2:43:29uh
2:43:30that began
2:43:31with this particular story in 2017
2:43:36you actually know quite a bit about guns
2:43:37before that right
2:43:38i wrote heroes that operated with guns
2:43:42but where i would get into trouble
2:43:44because i didn't write in depth about
2:43:46guns like for example in 2015
2:43:49i did a lot of research on dirty bombs
2:43:52and on
2:43:53plastic explosives like c4
2:43:56and so
2:43:58so you research what you need i hadn't
2:44:01really needed i could pass guns off in
2:44:04by throwing out equipment uh
2:44:07equipment stuff i could talk about flash
2:44:09banks and i could talk about this so it
2:44:11sounded like my guys were in that you
2:44:13know romance writers don't need a
2:44:15technical description i'm not tom clancy
2:44:18what they need is a
2:44:21uh
2:44:22enough believable things that they can
2:44:24get by now when you're writing a book
2:44:26about guns and putting it together you
2:44:28need information about guns but for the
2:44:30most part and in that book i needed
2:44:33information about how c4 worked and what
2:44:35a string of pearls were
2:44:37and uh
2:44:39um
2:44:40things like that i needed information
2:44:42i've researched navy seals because
2:44:44several of my hero heroes were leaving
2:44:47the military and they had been navy
2:44:49seals
2:44:51but when you say thanks to the police
2:44:53like oh the shooter thingy
2:44:56i mean you have more knowledge than that
2:44:57i had more knowledge than that but the
2:44:59sugar shooter thingy is when your
2:45:02husband has just died and your words are
2:45:04leaving you the shoot i would have said
2:45:06the shooter thingy when i was stressed
2:45:09you know i talked to myself in that
2:45:11video i say nancy this is this i don't
2:45:13talk to myself in third person i haven't
2:45:15gone over the bend that far and yet i
2:45:17listen to myself with that thing and i
2:45:19think
2:45:20whoa
2:45:21you i was stressed as hell that i'm
2:45:23talking to myself in third person
2:45:302015 you wrote and self-published a book
2:45:32called the wrong husband correct i did
2:45:34on page 231 of that book
2:45:36it says austin counted to 25
2:45:39slid out from his hiding place and fired
2:45:40six shots into the body on the bed
2:45:43at the seventh squeeze of the trigger
2:45:44the gun clicked no more bullets
2:45:46okay that sound right
2:45:48yes you wrote that yes
2:45:51in 2015 also i'm sorry in 2017 you wrote
2:45:54and self-published a book called the
2:45:55wrong seal yes on page 178 of that book
2:45:59it says slowly she eased the gun out of
2:46:01her pocket and propped the barrel on the
2:46:03branch each shot had to count does that
2:46:06sound right that sounds right something
2:46:08you wrote yes but you noticed none of
2:46:10that required any in-depth knowledge in
2:46:12january 2015 you self-publish a book
2:46:14called hell on the heart i did on page
2:46:174064
2:46:19it says the gun fired the force of the
2:46:22projectile entering her body rocketed
2:46:24her backward
2:46:26recall that i'm pretty sure there was
2:46:28not four thousand words in that four
2:46:30thousand pages in that book i'm sorry
2:46:33i might have the page numbers wrong
2:46:35i'm sure you're right
2:46:37i don't think you wrote
2:46:38that lengthy of a book
2:46:40um
2:46:42also in that book you wrote instead a
2:46:44darkened window descended and the barrel
2:46:46of a gun sparkled in the sunlight and
2:46:48the shot was loud does that sound right
2:46:50could be
2:46:52later on in that book you actually talk
2:46:54about
2:46:55a glock specifically you say dare
2:46:58emerged his glock in his hands but
2:46:59pointed toward the ground that sound
2:47:01right
2:47:02yes
2:47:03and
2:47:04as long as we're on that you ask or
2:47:06somebody else ask the question sorry
2:47:09also in that book you talk about a glock
2:47:11again
2:47:12instinctively john counted each shot
2:47:14while pulling his glock free of his
2:47:15shoulder holster
2:47:17you wrote all that mm-hmm okay
2:47:24as a writer
2:47:26is it true
2:47:27that you spend a lot of time thinking
2:47:29about murder
2:47:30oh yeah
2:47:31when you're
2:47:32romantic suspense somebody's dying
2:47:37you also consequently uh think about
2:47:39police procedure quite a bit is that
2:47:41right
2:47:43yes and no i mean i have wrote that and
2:47:45i know what you're quoting me on but uh
2:47:48i think less about
2:47:49police procedure and more about uh
2:47:53because
2:47:54with the exception of only one book
2:47:57do i really talk about police most of
2:48:00the
2:48:01uh
2:48:02most of my stories real frankly are
2:48:04about the same thing but uh
2:48:06uh but police procedure is not i don't
2:48:10go through it step by step the only book
2:48:12that i have about cops is the wrong cop
2:48:14right it wasn't necessarily talking
2:48:16about what you were writing about
2:48:18talking about
2:48:19your thoughts i know i don't think a ton
2:48:21about police procedure you know uh
2:48:25uh for one thing i would have known more
2:48:27if i was paying attention in this uh
2:48:29case this case has taught me a lot that
2:48:31i will never be able to use again but it
2:48:34has taught me a lot about police
2:48:36procedure i had no idea about
2:48:40you've obtained books regarding police
2:48:41procedures that right
2:48:44i have
2:48:46research books on uh any number of
2:48:48things but police procedure i don't
2:48:51really think would be the thing i've
2:48:52attended classes where they talked about
2:48:54police procedures you took that class
2:48:56with uh miss smith out in clackam sorry
2:49:00washington county
2:49:02they didn't talk about police procedure
2:49:03then i mean there may have been some
2:49:05references to it but they talked about
2:49:07what does the sheriff's county do and
2:49:09what does each department do and how are
2:49:11they working within the community it was
2:49:14it was an interesting class it taught me
2:49:16a lot of things but it was
2:49:19more it was for the benefit of the
2:49:21washington county public relations you
2:49:24know that shows we are working in a
2:49:25different way than you think we're
2:49:27working and it was very effective
2:49:30because i was dazzled by some of the
2:49:31things that they said
2:49:33and as a romance writer and thinking
2:49:35about murder and police procedure you
2:49:37also consider what motives people might
2:49:39have is that correct
2:49:40yes because i don't think people murder
2:49:42willy-nilly unless you're a professional
2:49:44hit man
2:49:45i think lots of people who say things
2:49:47like uh
2:49:48i would never murder anybody
2:49:50and i say it's between you and your
2:49:53child
2:49:54it's him or it's your child
2:49:57what would you do and i would bet money
2:50:00that that's
2:50:01all of a sudden their ideas of i would
2:50:02never murder anybody might radically
2:50:04change would you agree that financial
2:50:06reasons is a big reason people
2:50:09might murder
2:50:13yes but i don't ever write about that i
2:50:15mean i think financial is a big reason
2:50:17yeah
2:50:18and do you agree that divorce is
2:50:20expensive and may not result in you
2:50:22getting anything or much
2:50:26divorce is expensive i don't think that
2:50:29is a mystery to anybody here but i don't
2:50:32think that uh
2:50:33it might result in you're not getting
2:50:35anything
2:50:36uh you know
2:50:38real frankly i suspect that you will get
2:50:40half of what you have you know sure
2:50:44and as a romance writer and thinking
2:50:46about these things um
2:50:49you you know that people might consider
2:50:51using guns or knives or or poison to
2:50:54commit a murder is that right weapons
2:50:56yeah
2:50:57and you also would if somebody were to
2:50:59ask you you advise against them
2:51:01of considering a hitman because you're
2:51:03bringing somebody else into your
2:51:06how many lifetime stories have we seen
2:51:08where the girl hires a hitman to kill
2:51:10her husband and lo and behold the hitman
2:51:12turns out to be an fbi agent
2:51:15you know i think that's a stopped
2:51:16stomped-on theme right
2:51:20you actually find it easier to to wish
2:51:22people dead instead of actually killing
2:51:24them correctly oh yeah i mean it's so
2:51:26much easier to say
2:51:28than to actually do anything because by
2:51:31the time you're over being annoyed at
2:51:32them you're over being thinking they uh
2:51:35you know need to have bodily harm
2:51:38my last question to you miss brophy is
2:51:40if there's one thing that you
2:51:43know about murder
2:51:45is it that
2:51:46anyone is capable of doing it i
2:51:48absolutely believe that
2:51:50and i believe that because once again if
2:51:53it's your child
2:51:54or the person in front of you
2:51:56ten to one you will find yourself
2:51:58capable of murder i think most people
2:52:00don't murder for flimsy reasons i think
2:52:03people get pushed into a corner where
2:52:05they have no other options
2:52:07i think people murder because they're
2:52:09protecting somebody they love
2:52:11i think people murder well there's some
2:52:13mercy killings perhaps where people
2:52:16murder to save the person they love pain
2:52:19but i think that's rare i think people
2:52:21murder and rage i don't think people
2:52:24murder because they say well
2:52:26you know we'll just sneak down and uh
2:52:29do this quickly you know i think if
2:52:32you're going to murder somebody ten to
2:52:34one that person knows that you are not
2:52:36happy with them you know i don't think
2:52:38that should come as a mystery you know
2:52:40to anybody i don't think people murder
2:52:42willy-nilly out of the
2:52:45uh
2:52:46just because you know yeah financial
2:52:48reason is a big reason but going back to
2:52:51my case there's not enough financial
2:52:54reason there to make it i do better with
2:52:57dan alive financially than i do with dan
2:52:59did there's no financial gain here
2:53:02you know we had solved our problem i
2:53:05turned the book into an editor and i
2:53:07said
2:53:07well they had a problem here in october
2:53:10of 2017 but they had solved it but then
2:53:13she murdered him in 2018 when they had
2:53:15solved their financial problem where is
2:53:17the motivation i would ask you
2:53:19you know an editor would laugh and say i
2:53:21think you need to work harder on this
2:53:23story you have kind of a big hole in it
2:53:26you know
2:53:27i think people murder out of anger more
2:53:30than anything else
2:53:33i'm gonna ask everyone to stop there
2:53:35it's now noon we'll take our lunch break
2:53:37and we'll be back at 1 30.
2:56:19you

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