Muslim Woman Defends Islam, Then Starts Stuttering When Elon Musk Asks This — Transcript

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1. 0:00When were you last in the UK?
2. 0:03>> Um, a few years ago.
3. 0:05>> Exactly. So So I live there. I'm there
4. 0:07the whole time. That is nonsense.
5. 0:08>> You live out of a cloistered existence.
6. 0:10>> don't, actually. And the numbers also
7. 0:12disprove what you say.
8. 0:13>> What numbers?
9. 0:14I think I think you're the problem, the
10. 0:16media.
11. 0:17Um, and And And speaking of loathing,
12. 0:20you are loathed far more than I am. And
13. 0:23you don't seem to even realize that.
14. 0:24>> She runs The Economist. He's the richest
15. 0:27man on Earth. For an hour inside his own
16. 0:29factory, it's robots, rockets, and AI.
17. 0:32Then she says one word, Europe. And for
18. 0:35the next 20 minutes, Zanny Minton
19. 0:37Beddoes tries to make every label stick
20. 0:40to Elon Musk. Far right, racist,
21. 0:43anti-Muslim.
22. 0:44She lives in London. She has the crime
23. 0:46numbers. She says Britain is very good
24. 0:49at integrating immigrants. What she
25. 0:51doesn't have is an answer to one simple
26. 0:53question. And by the end, she's agreeing
27. 0:55with him. If you support this, or you
28. 0:58like this kind of content and want more,
29. 1:00subscribe to the channel. It starts with
30. 1:02that one word.
31. 1:04>> Can we talk about Europe? A place that
32. 1:06you are very, very focused on.
33. 1:09>> I'm not that focused on Europe.
34. 1:11>> I think, judging by your posts, you're
35. 1:13pretty concerned about Europe. Uh, you
36. 1:16You support
37. 1:16>> I I once in a while I
38. 1:18post something.
39. 1:19>> I think it's
40. 1:20reasonably frequently. It's not once in
41. 1:22a while, but but I'm I'm cuz I'm
42. 1:23genuinely interested in this. As someone
43. 1:25who lives in Europe, lives in London,
44. 1:27>> Yeah.
45. 1:27>> uh, you paint a picture Well, first of
46. 1:29all, you support not just the populist
47. 1:31right, but the far right. In fact, very
48. 1:32fringe parties in some countries that
49. 1:34>> support the normal people.
50. 1:36>> Okay.
51. 1:36>> What do you call the far right, falsely?
52. 1:39>> You think is the normal person. Okay.
53. 1:40>> Yes.
54. 1:42>> Um
55. 1:42>> Literally, you could you could go back,
56. 1:43uh, 10 or 15 years, and these these
57. 1:46these these policies were completely
58. 1:48normal. In fact, you you
59. 1:50One of the One of the One of the tricks
60. 1:52I think is is funny. I think it's that
61. 1:54it's quite funny is to like take a
62. 1:56speech from Obama and Hillary and then
63. 1:59and then go to someone and say
64. 2:01who's who's sort of um
65. 2:03you know on the sort of what I call the
66. 2:04lunatic left um and say what do you
67. 2:06think of the speech by Trump? I'm like
68. 2:08oh wow he's the worst person ever.
69. 2:10Actually, that was a speech by Obama. Or
70. 2:12actually, that was a speech by Hillary.
71. 2:14>> Watch the move. She never says which
72. 2:16policy is extreme.
73. 2:18She opens with the label and lets the
74. 2:19word do the work.
75. 2:21Musk won't wear it.
76. 2:23These positions were normal 10 or 15
77. 2:25years ago, he says. Read the same speech
78. 2:28out under a different name and the
79. 2:29outrage switches sides. So she names a
80. 2:32name and he hands her a test.
81. 2:35>> I I I I agree No, I agree that the
82. 2:38center of gravity in this country has
83. 2:40shifted. Certainly the Democratic Party
84. 2:41shifted to the left, but that's not what
85. 2:43I'm talking about. I'm talking about
86. 2:43people like Rupert Lowe. I'm talking
87. 2:45about
88. 2:45>> please.
89. 2:45>> people on It's It's actually just normal
90. 2:47people. Um it's just normal people. It's
91. 2:49just normal people and um the And and
92. 2:51here are the principles and and tell me
93. 2:52which of these sound terrible. Um that
94. 2:55we should have secure borders, that we
95. 2:57should have safe cities,
96. 2:59uh that we should have sensible
97. 3:00spending.
98. 3:02Which of those three are Well, are are
99. 3:03are far right fringe? And and and and
100. 3:05and
101. 3:06I would like to just admonish you and
102. 3:09the media
103. 3:11for the absurd characterization of the
104. 3:13far right. It is false and misleading
105. 3:16and nonsense. Please keep this part in.
106. 3:19>> We'll keep all of this in. But let me
107. 3:21[laughter] let me let me
108. 3:22>> Don't cut this part.
109. 3:23>> Secure borders, safe cities, sensible
110. 3:26spending. Which of these is far right?
111. 3:29She doesn't pick one, not a single one.
112. 3:31No wonder he asked them to keep that
113. 3:33part in.
114. 3:34Because instead of answering, she
115. 3:35reaches for one of his posts.
116. 3:38>> Let me push back on that. Let me push
117. 3:39back on that because you have
118. 3:41>> You know what? You have What is it?
119. 3:43Close to 250 million followers on X.
120. 3:47>> Yeah, cuz I have
121. 3:47>> You say things like
122. 3:49quote civil war in Britain is
123. 3:51inevitable, Just a question of when.
124. 3:54When were you last in the UK?
125. 3:57>> Um, a few years ago.
126. 3:59>> Exactly. So, so I live there. I'm there
127. 4:01the whole time. That is nonsense.
128. 4:03>> live in a cloistered existence.
129. 4:04>> No, I don't, actually. And the numbers
130. 4:06also disprove what you say.
131. 4:08>> What numbers?
132. 4:08>> All the numbers about crime in London is
133. 4:10a much safer city than any city in the
134. 4:12United States. Violent crime in the UK
135. 4:14is not where you think it is. In fact,
136. 4:16it's coming down. You You have painted,
137. 4:18and because you have so many followers,
138. 4:19so many Americans believe it, a a kind
139. 4:21of view that Europe and and the UK are
140. 4:25kind of, you know, overrun with
141. 4:26terrifying Muslim immigrants. There's
142. 4:29rape on every corner. There's a sort of
143. 4:31civilizational destruction.
144. 4:32>> any of those things.
145. 4:33>> That's her case. She lives in London. He
146. 4:35doesn't, so he's wrong. Crime is
147. 4:37falling, and the Britain he's selling is
148. 4:39a cartoon. Terrifying Muslim immigrants,
149. 4:42rape on every corner.
150. 4:44But listen to who actually said those
151. 4:46words. She did.
152. 4:48Musk's words were different. Civil war.
153. 4:51So, she asks him why, and he tells her.
154. 4:54>> Civil war in Britain is inevitable. And
155. 4:56then
156. 4:56>> Yes, if current trends continue, it is.
157. 4:59>> Why?
158. 5:00>> Well, if if you have uh
159. 5:02a
160. 5:03large
161. 5:05uh and growing, rapidly growing
162. 5:07uh group of of people whose beliefs are
163. 5:11antithetical to Western beliefs,
164. 5:14um at some point there will be a
165. 5:16reckoning.
166. 5:17They They They They will They will try
167. 5:19to implement their views, and those who
168. 5:21oppose it will oppose it, and that's
169. 5:24what you call civil war.
170. 5:26And obviously, this is the trend.
171. 5:29Um and uh
172. 5:31and and you absolutely do live in a
173. 5:32cloistered existence. And if you'd like,
174. 5:34we can go on a tour of Britain.
175. 5:36>> Sure. I'd be very happy to come on a
176. 5:38tour of Britain.
177. 5:39>> And then and you will see for yourself.
178. 5:40>> country that I live in all the time, and
179. 5:42you haven't been to a few years ago.
180. 5:44>> literally 100 times.
181. 5:46>> But when was the last time?
182. 5:48>> It's literally a few years
183. 5:49>> Listen to what he actually said.
184. 5:51Not Muslims, not immigrants, a
185. 5:53fast-growing group whose beliefs are
186. 5:54antithetical to the West trying to
187. 5:57implement its views, and the people who
188. 5:59oppose them. That's a prediction about
189. 6:01values colliding. You can't argue with
190. 6:03it.
191. 6:04She doesn't. She argues about his travel
192. 6:06dates, and then she reveals what's
193. 6:08really bothering her.
194. 6:10>> You know why I this exercise is me
195. 6:12because you have really shaped
196. 6:14opinion about the UK. And so many
197. 6:17Americans I come across and I have
198. 6:18conversations with and they'll be and I
199. 6:20just had one the other day along the
200. 6:22order of oh, London's such a dangerous
201. 6:24place. How can you know there there are
202. 6:25sort of grooming gangs everywhere. There
203. 6:27are there's violence everywhere. This is
204. 6:29a picture that people get from things
205. 6:31that you post or that are posted on X.
206. 6:34And for example, you you're posting for
207. 6:36what was it? 48 hours of citizen
208. 6:38vigilante.
209. 6:39That film which, you know, paints a
210. 6:41dystopian I've watched it.
211. 6:43>> Yes.
212. 6:43>> It was not fun. I watched it yesterday.
213. 6:45It's not a very good movie. But it's
214. 6:47also paints a dystopian picture of
215. 6:49Europe and it glorifies vigilante
216. 6:51violence. It glorifies the murdering of
217. 6:54a Muslim immigrant family.
218. 6:56I honestly think that it is
219. 6:57irresponsible for you to put that up on
220. 6:59X.
221. 6:59>> I think that it's it's a movie
222. 7:01um and it's worth watching.
223. 7:03>> It's a movie and it's worth watching.
224. 7:05That's the whole answer and it's all the
225. 7:08answer that complaint deserved.
226. 7:10But notice her real grievance.
227. 7:12Americans keep asking her about grooming
228. 7:14gangs. Musk didn't invent those.
229. 7:17Britain has held inquiry after inquiry
230. 7:19into them.
231. 7:20Yet in her telling, the scandal isn't
232. 7:22the gangs, it's that Americans found
233. 7:25out. Then he turns the tables.
234. 7:28>> You're clearly suggesting Europe is
235. 7:31dystopian place and you
236. 7:34>> Yes, I mean
237. 7:36why aren't you more uh
238. 7:38doing more to fight censorship in
239. 7:40Europe? Why aren't you?
240. 7:42>> I
241. 7:43>> You're doing seem to be doing nothing to
242. 7:44fight censorship in Europe.
243. 7:45>> true. I am I think that there are there
244. 7:47are issues in prison in the UK for
245. 7:50social media posts. Do you think that's
246. 7:52appropriate? No, I we've written
247. 7:53editorials against it, but I don't think
248. 7:55My point is that the UK has issues. And
249. 7:57I think if you I and I agree with you,
250. 7:59but I don't think you have to glorify
251. 8:00vigilante violence and kind of, you
252. 8:03know, post the things that you are doing
253. 8:05and paint an entirely inaccurate picture
254. 8:08of Europe that you do.
255. 8:09>> think it is.
256. 8:11>> We should We should do a tour of the UK.
257. 8:13>> Yes, and one of Brussels, too.
258. 8:14>> has actually been very good at
259. 8:17integrating
260. 8:18immigrants. The UK has a is is very
261. 8:20effective at doing that. There are
262. 8:22problems. I'm the first to admit that
263. 8:23there are problems.
264. 8:24>> Yes, there are major problems.
265. 8:25>> There are problems, but it is not It
266. 8:27really is not what you are
267. 8:30describing to or suggesting to your 240
268. 8:33million followers it is. And I think
269. 8:34there's a problem.
270. 8:35>> No, I think I'm I think I'm spot-on.
271. 8:38>> The UK has actually been very good at
272. 8:39integrating immigrants.
273. 8:41Then, in the same breath, there are
274. 8:43problems. Major problems, he corrects
275. 8:46her. And just before that, he asked
276. 8:48about people sitting in British prisons
277. 8:50over social media posts. And she agreed
278. 8:52that's wrong. So, the man she calls a
279. 8:54danger to Europe is defending the free
280. 8:57speech she admits is under threat.
281. 8:59So, she reaches for the heaviest word in
282. 9:01the book.
283. 9:02>> But why do you do the latter one? The
284. 9:04tribalism. I mean, people say that
285. 9:06you're a racist. People say that you're,
286. 9:08you know, there's all kinds of things
287. 9:09said about you, which
288. 9:10I'm sure you would disagree with. Um,
289. 9:13but
290. 9:14I just don't understand. What is the
291. 9:16motivation for doing that? Are you
292. 9:17fermenting this
293. 9:18>> is is um she's half Indian and my my and
294. 9:22I have four children with her.
295. 9:24Um
296. 9:25you know, um
297. 9:28One of them was named after a
298. 9:29a famous Indian physicist. Um, so I I
299. 9:32would say I'm not racist. And also,
300. 9:36uh
301. 9:36the you know, if you look at the
302. 9:38people that are employed at my
303. 9:39companies,
304. 9:41um
305. 9:42you know, uh we have senior executives
306. 9:44of all races.
307. 9:45Uh there there's there's I don't think
308. 9:47there's any racism there.
309. 9:48>> People say you're a racist.
310. 9:50Not her accusation, of course.
311. 9:52She just wants him to answer it on
312. 9:54camera.
313. 9:55So, he does with his family.
314. 9:57Four children with a woman who's half
315. 9:58Indian. One of them named after a famous
316. 10:01Indian physicist. She doesn't argue. She
317. 10:03moves straight to the question in this
318. 10:05interview has been circling. Three
319. 10:07words.
320. 10:08>> Are you anti-Muslim?
321. 10:10>> Um I am
322. 10:14I'm I'm against
323. 10:16uh
324. 10:18having if if if if people are coming to
325. 10:21a country
326. 10:22with
327. 10:24antithetical views,
328. 10:27um
329. 10:28I I am against that.
330. 10:31I I'm against that. You know, I'm
331. 10:32against um
332. 10:36I I'm against rape and murder.
333. 10:38I'm against
334. 10:40uh
335. 10:41the
336. 10:42imposition of
337. 10:45rules and laws that are
338. 10:49contrary to what we've
339. 10:53come to accept in the West.
340. 10:56Um
341. 10:57and um
342. 11:00and I think it's it's it's a crying
343. 11:01shame that the sort of traditional media
344. 11:04like you um
345. 11:06uh
346. 11:07don't recognize this.
347. 11:08>> Are you anti-Muslim?
348. 11:09A trap with two doors, and he walks
349. 11:11through neither.
350. 11:12He doesn't attack a faith or a people.
351. 11:15He names what he's against, rape,
352. 11:17murder,
353. 11:19and rules and laws imposed on the West
354. 11:21that run against everything it has come
355. 11:22to accept. That's not anti-Muslim.
356. 11:25That's anti-imposition. And then he
357. 11:27points it straight back at the media.
358. 11:29She doesn't take the hint. She raises
359. 11:31the stakes.
360. 11:33>> First of all, I think that you hugely
361. 11:36exaggerate
362. 11:37the challenges that Europe faces.
363. 11:39Secondly, in areas I completely agree
364. 11:41with you. I I I think that, you know,
365. 11:43the constraints on freedom of speech in
366. 11:45in the UK in certain areas are
367. 11:46problematic.
368. 11:48What worries me is that the people you
369. 11:50are supporting are really quite vile
370. 11:52people in some areas. Like some members
371. 11:54of the AfD, Alice Weidel, whom I've met,
372. 11:56is a perfectly thoughtful person, but in
373. 11:59her party are some real neo-Nazis. Are
374. 12:02some really, really awful people. And
375. 12:05your blanket support of this kind of
376. 12:08party with 240 million votes means that
377. 12:10you have
378. 12:11a power in Europe
379. 12:14that I think perhaps you don't realize
380. 12:16the scale of impact you have. But you
381. 12:19can
382. 12:19>> I hope I hope I am having a big impact.
383. 12:22>> Why should you Why should you be able to
384. 12:24shape European politics? Wasn't You
385. 12:25don't even live there.
386. 12:27>> I I think of it as the sort of the West
387. 12:29collectively.
388. 12:29>> I hope I'm having a big impact. No
389. 12:31apology. And look at what's left of her
390. 12:33case. She agrees with him on free
391. 12:36speech. She calls the AfD's leader a
392. 12:38perfectly thoughtful person. Her real
393. 12:41objection is that an outsider has a say.
394. 12:44This from the editor of a London
395. 12:45magazine that endorses American
396. 12:47presidential candidates. Influence
397. 12:50across the ocean is fine, apparently, as
398. 12:52long as it's hers. Then she plays the
399. 12:54card she's been holding since the first
400. 12:56minute.
401. 12:57>> But do you see why this makes people
402. 12:59think
403. 13:00that this man, who has all this power,
404. 13:02he's the world's richest man, he thinks
405. 13:04he has a right to influence our
406. 13:06politics. It makes people It's why, you
407. 13:08know, we started this conversation
408. 13:09saying superlatives, it's why people
409. 13:11loathe you.
410. 13:12I mean, some people do loathe you.
411. 13:14>> Yes, some people do.
412. 13:15>> But do you understand why?
413. 13:17Do you think what you're doing is
414. 13:18helpful for Western democracy?
415. 13:19>> Maybe Maybe Maybe some people do loathe
416. 13:21me. I And that's And that's probably
417. 13:23true. I don't care. Um the uh
418. 13:26But But the fact that uh as you pointed
419. 13:29out a quarter billion people follow me
420. 13:32is that I think a lot more people
421. 13:33actually like me than don't.
422. 13:36And I think a lot more people hate you
423. 13:38and the media
424. 13:40uh more than you realize.
425. 13:42Do you realize the media is despised? Do
426. 13:44you Do you realize that that journalists
427. 13:46how the view of journalists is is
428. 13:49is like
429. 13:51It's It's like the a favorable view of
430. 13:53journalists is like 15%.
431. 13:55>> in the United States
432. 13:56>> you you So so the shoe is on the other
433. 13:58foot. They hate you.
434. 14:01They hate you far more than they hate
435. 14:04me.
436. 14:05>> She opened this interview with
437. 14:06superlatives. Now those superlatives are
438. 14:08the reason people loathe him. His
439. 14:10answer, I don't care. If being loathed
440. 14:13is the test, he says, start with her
441. 14:15profession. A favorable view of
442. 14:17journalists, by his count, of 15%. She
443. 14:21has an answer for that. He isn't buying
444. 14:23it.
445. 14:24>> I think there is certainly a lot of
446. 14:26trust in journalism. I think in part
447. 14:28there have been mistakes by journalists
448. 14:31and journalism. I totally acknowledge
449. 14:32that. But I also think that the kind of
450. 14:35polarized environment, particularly on
451. 14:38social media, fostered by the kinds of
452. 14:40things you are pushing on X actually
453. 14:42helps this, makes it worse.
454. 14:44>> I don't think so.
455. 14:48I think I think you're the problem, the
456. 14:50media.
457. 14:51Um and and and speaking of loathing,
458. 14:54you're loathed far more than I am. And
459. 14:56you don't seem to even realize that.
460. 14:58>> I think very few people know who I am
461. 14:59relative to you. So I don't think I play
462. 15:01in the same game.
463. 15:02>> collectively.
464. 15:03Um
465. 15:04so
466. 15:05I mean, you're hated.
467. 15:08Do you even Do you even know that?
468. 15:11You probably don't.
469. 15:11>> And that's where the interview flips.
470. 15:13For an hour, she asked the questions.
471. 15:16Now he's asking one.
472. 15:18Does she even know how her industry is
473. 15:20seen? You probably don't. Her answer is
474. 15:23a lecture on classical liberalism. Big
475. 15:25mistake.
476. 15:27>> When I read what you post
477. 15:29on your feed, I sometimes wonder whether
478. 15:32you really do believe in that.
479. 15:34>> Um
480. 15:35I literally said, look, I believe in
481. 15:37uh
482. 15:38safe cities,
483. 15:40secure borders,
484. 15:41and sensible spending.
485. 15:43With
486. 15:44With respect to government. Um
487. 15:47>> Does the US
488. 15:47>> make me right-wing at all. Um
489. 15:50in the least.
490. 15:51>> Does the US or do European countries
491. 15:53score better on those?
492. 15:55>> The US is better.
493. 15:56>> No.
494. 15:57>> Yes.
495. 15:57>> Safe cities, much more dangerous in the
496. 15:59US than the UK. Sensible spending,
497. 16:02bigger deficit here, out of control, you
498. 16:04managed you've you've you failed to
499. 16:06reduce it. Secure borders, now under the
500. 16:08Trump administration, I agree with you,
501. 16:10before not. But on two out of three,
502. 16:12unequivocally, Europe is in a better
503. 16:13place. Yet you seem to paint a picture
504. 16:15of Europe being a hellhole.
505. 16:17>> Now she's on home turf. Crime tables,
506. 16:19deficits, a dig at the spending cut he
507. 16:21never delivered. But listen to her last
508. 16:24word, hellhole, her word, not his. Watch
509. 16:28what he does with it.
510. 16:30>> I don't think Europe's a hellhole.
511. 16:33>> Okay, we can agree on something.
512. 16:35>> When When did I ever say that?
513. 16:36>> Well, the picture you paint of Europe on
514. 16:38your feed
515. 16:38>> You're making up things.
516. 16:39>> No, I'm not. You You say
517. 16:41You say civil war in Britain is
518. 16:43inevitable, and then you you've you've
519. 16:46basically proselytized for this citizen
520. 16:48vigilante film, which really does paint
521. 16:50Europe as a hellhole. It just starts
522. 16:52with, you know, ominous music, and it
523. 16:53says Europe.
524. 16:54>> Well, there are There was out of control
525. 16:57rape and murder.
526. 17:01>> It's more dangerous in this country than
527. 17:02it is in Europe.
528. 17:04>> Uh where where there is danger in this
529. 17:06country is is because
530. 17:08we we we failed to incarcerate
531. 17:11uh repeat violent offenders.
532. 17:14Um and that's uh you know, the classic
533. 17:17sort of Soros DA
534. 17:19uh or judges that fail to incarcerate
535. 17:21repeat violent offenders. And if
536. 17:23somebody gets arrested
537. 17:2550 times, literally,
538. 17:28um for violent crimes, uh
539. 17:31and eventually they're going to kill
540. 17:33somebody.
541. 17:34So So you either you either incarcerate
542. 17:36them or people will die.
543. 17:38>> I think the prevalence of guns has quite
544. 17:40a lot to do with it, too.
545. 17:41I mean, this is a much more dangerous
546. 17:42country. Murder rates are much higher in
547. 17:44large part because there's so much there
548. 17:46are so many guns.
549. 17:47>> Well, let me give you an interesting
550. 17:49number. There are more people that die
551. 17:50in Europe from heat deaths than gun than
552. 17:52people that die from gun deaths in
553. 17:54America.
554. 17:55Why aren't you
555. 17:57uh
556. 17:58writing an article about air
557. 17:59conditioning?
558. 17:59>> Why aren't you writing an article about
559. 18:01air conditioning? She brought America's
560. 18:03guns. He brought Europe's heat waves and
561. 18:06turned her favorite statistic into a
562. 18:07punchline. And when he asked for the
563. 18:09quote, "When did I ever say that?" her
564. 18:12answer is the picture you paint, not a
565. 18:14quote, not a post, a picture. Minutes
566. 18:18later, she tries to wrap the whole thing
567. 18:20up.
568. 18:21>> Let's move on from this because
569. 18:23I think I've got a sense of why you're
570. 18:25doing what you're doing.
571. 18:26>> The point is not that that that The
572. 18:28question is not is is America perfect?
573. 18:30Question is
574. 18:31Does Europe have a serious and growing
575. 18:33problem?
576. 18:33>> is which which is more dangerous.
577. 18:35>> Europe has a serious and growing
578. 18:37problem.
579. 18:38I'm I'm I'm not going to
580. 18:40say the United States has no problems.
581. 18:42Of course it does.
582. 18:44Um
583. 18:44but
584. 18:45uh
585. 18:46you know, we we should all try to to
586. 18:48address these issues.
587. 18:49>> We can agree on that. We should all try
588. 18:50to address the problems. My point was
589. 18:52simply that I think you exaggerate the
590. 18:54scale of Europe's problem and the
591. 18:55>> I think you
592. 18:56people are asleep at the switch and do
593. 18:58not realize the magnitude of the issue.
594. 19:01>> He won't play the which country is worse
595. 19:02game. The question is whether Europe's
596. 19:04problem is growing and for once she
597. 19:07doesn't say no.
598. 19:08Then comes her heaviest charge of the
599. 19:10night and it backfires.
600. 19:12>> I also think that your interventions,
601. 19:15however well-intentioned they may be,
602. 19:18risk making Europe's problem a lot
603. 19:19worse.
604. 19:20>> How?
605. 19:21>> Because you are putting your support
606. 19:22behind people who are
607. 19:24proto-authoritarians, who are not trying
608. 19:27simply to, you know, make sure there is
609. 19:29better integration of Muslims or to to
610. 19:32secure the borders, but who have very
611. 19:33clear fascist tendencies. And you will
612. 19:36cause
613. 19:37>> you're just completely incorrect.
614. 19:39I think what you're saying is total
615. 19:40fiction. Um and really I
616. 19:44I'm simply saying that there needs to be
617. 19:46there needs to
618. 19:47that Europe has to have secure borders.
619. 19:49>> Okay.
620. 19:50>> And should not let in vast numbers of
621. 19:51people who with views that are
622. 19:54antithetical to
623. 19:55the accepted views in in Europe. And and
624. 19:58where there will where there will not be
625. 20:00some level of
626. 20:01uh
627. 20:02safe cultural integration. This is
628. 20:04simply common sense.
629. 20:05>> If all you are saying is Europe should
630. 20:06have secure borders, I completely agree
631. 20:07with you. Then
632. 20:10then I have misunderstood what your
633. 20:12interventions have been on social media,
634. 20:14cuz that is not what the view I have
635. 20:17con- not what I would conclude having
636. 20:19seen what the people you are supporting
637. 20:20and the things you're doing. But if
638. 20:21that's your goal, I share your goal that
639. 20:23Europe should have secure borders. I
640. 20:25think that's perfectly agreeable.
641. 20:27>> Play that back.
642. 20:2820 minutes of far-right, racist,
643. 20:31anti-Muslim, and now fascist. Then he
644. 20:33states his position in plain words,
645. 20:36secure borders.
646. 20:37Don't let in vast numbers of people
647. 20:39whose views are antithetical to
648. 20:41Europe's. And the editor of The
649. 20:43Economist says, I completely agree with
650. 20:45you. I have misunderstood. That's not a
651. 20:48debate lost on points. That's the label
652. 20:50peeling off, live on camera. And she
653. 20:53isn't done agreeing.
654. 20:55>> But I am
655. 20:57I think Europe benefits from having
656. 21:00immigration, controlled immigration. It
657. 21:02brings
658. 21:03>> I'm in favor of immigration. Obviously,
659. 21:05I'd be hypocritical if I wasn't, as I'm
660. 21:07an immigrant to the United States. Um
661. 21:08I'm in favor of immigration if the
662. 21:10person immigrating um is going to be a
663. 21:13productive member of society. Um if
664. 21:15they're going to be honest, and if
665. 21:17they're not going to mistreat people in
666. 21:19that country they're going to.
667. 21:22>> I can agree on all of those.
668. 21:23>> Yes.
669. 21:24>> But I think Europe does better on that
670. 21:26than you give it credit for. That's I
671. 21:27think where we disagree.
672. 21:28>> The man she asked whether he's
673. 21:29anti-Muslim is an immigrant himself.
674. 21:32His test isn't where you're from or how
675. 21:34you pray. Be productive. Be honest.
676. 21:37Don't mistreat the people of the country
677. 21:39that took you in.
678. 21:40She agrees with all three. So what's
679. 21:42left of the fight?
680. 21:44Only whether Europe is passing that
681. 21:45test.
682. 21:46Then she asked the question she probably
683. 21:48regrets.
684. 21:50>> But let's move on. Tell me what do you
685. 21:52think people get most wrong about you?
686. 21:54>> Well, I mean you get a you just got a
687. 21:56whole bunch of things wrong about me.
688. 21:59Pretty much everything in the last Re-
689. 22:00just rewind the last 20 minutes is all
690. 22:01wrong.
691. 22:04>> So I got wrong you got I got wrong
692. 22:06[laughter] your your
693. 22:08>> Well, let's not be repetitive here.
694. 22:10>> Okay. So So that political side of you
695. 22:12people get most wrong.
696. 22:13>> Yeah, my political views are very uh are
697. 22:15centrist. Uh they're not
698. 22:18uh far right. And And And frankly,
699. 22:20calling it far right I think is an
700. 22:23insult uh
701. 22:25to
702. 22:26to history, an insult to many peoples,
703. 22:29and it is uh an outrageous falsehood. Um
704. 22:33It's It's completely absurd. I I
705. 22:36literally have stated my position, which
706. 22:37is that And And I've been very clear
707. 22:39about this, which is that there need to
708. 22:40be secure borders, that um
709. 22:43if if there's if there's an influx of
710. 22:45immigrants, they they they they need to
711. 22:47be people who will agree that the with
712. 22:50with with Western ideals, with Western
713. 22:52values. And if they don't, and if and if
714. 22:55there's a long-term uh
715. 22:57growth of people who do not or or in
716. 23:00some cases are adamantly opposed to
717. 23:02Western values, you are setting yourself
718. 23:05up for civil war. This is obvious.
719. 23:08A child can see this. So so this is this
720. 23:10is not a right-wing view. I'm simply
721. 23:12stating reality.
722. 23:13>> Rewind the last 20 minutes. It's all
723. 23:16wrong. Then he lays it out once more,
724. 23:18slowly, for the people at the back.
725. 23:21Secure borders,
726. 23:22immigrants who accept Western values,
727. 23:25and if not, in his words, you're setting
728. 23:27yourself up for civil war.
729. 23:29A child can see this. The only people
730. 23:31who can't are the ones paid to explain
731. 23:33the world to the rest of us. Her last
732. 23:35question, which prediction is he more
733. 23:38sure of, the robots or Britain?
734. 23:41>> Which probably renders this other stuff
735. 23:43that we've been talking about less
736. 23:44important and less relevant.
737. 23:46>> The The AI
738. 23:49AI robotics
739. 23:50revolution will happen
740. 23:56sooner
741. 23:57it will it will happen sooner than civil
742. 23:59war in in in in Britain.
743. 24:02I would say civil war in Britain is
744. 24:03probably 20 years away.
745. 24:05Um
746. 24:07and the AI
747. 24:09robot singularity
748. 24:12is 10 years away.
749. 24:13>> 20 years.
750. 24:14He didn't walk it back. He put a date on
751. 24:16it. She came with crime figures, deficit
752. 24:19tables, and a film review. She left
753. 24:21agreeing with him on borders, on free
754. 24:23speech, and on immigrants who respect
755. 24:25the country they join.
756. 24:27What she never managed was the one thing
757. 24:29she came to do. Make far right stick to
758. 24:32secure borders, safe cities, and
759. 24:34sensible spending. So who's really
760. 24:37living a cloistered existence? The man
761. 24:39who hasn't been to Britain in a few
762. 24:41years, or the editor who still can't say
763. 24:43which of those three ideas is extreme?