Mollie Hemingway | Media Bias in America — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00last time i saw you i was staying in
2. 0:02your basement yes you were and i was
3. 0:03telling my roommates that we were doing
4. 0:05this conversation i told them actually
5. 0:07to stop by aj's if they wanted to see
6. 0:09you again they were asking if you're
7. 0:11going to stay in our house right i did i
8. 0:12will say i mean i stayed with you
9. 0:14because there was a housing shortage
10. 0:16issue correct and you generously took me
11. 0:18in but i had a really great time also
12. 0:20your house is ridiculously nice much
13. 0:23nicer than what i was dealing with in
14. 0:24college so yeah we're kind of spoiled as
15. 0:26college kids
16. 0:28but congratulations your editor-in-chief
17. 0:30of the federalist uh how's that going
18. 0:32it's going great we just announced this
19. 0:34a couple weeks ago i've been at the
20. 0:36federalists since we started in 2013
21. 0:39and have loved it and loved seeing what
22. 0:41we've done and very excited to take the
23. 0:44reins here what does
24. 0:46your role as editor-in-chief look like
25. 0:48because my understanding of
26. 0:49editor-in-chief is maybe like when i was
27. 0:52in charge of my school newspaper and i
28. 0:53feel like that's definitely different
29. 0:54for the federalists it actually is
30. 0:56probably the same i think there's like a
31. 0:58an editor's club where no matter what it
32. 1:00is like you know neighborhood newsletter
33. 1:02or large publication you have some of
34. 1:04the same things overseeing
35. 1:06all the other writers and we have you
36. 1:08know staff writers but we also have
37. 1:09quite a few contributors who are on the
38. 1:11outside just making sure we're covering
39. 1:13all the important things that should be
40. 1:16covered and that's particularly
41. 1:18important in our media environment where
42. 1:21so many of the large media outlets are
43. 1:23just completely out to lunch or just
44. 1:25worse
45. 1:26on how they
46. 1:28report or characterize the news
47. 1:31how they shape narratives and it's just
48. 1:33really important to not just fight
49. 1:35against that but but be aggressive in
50. 1:38saying what is actually important that's
51. 1:40going on in the world um in the country
52. 1:43and so it's it's fun but we never lack
53. 1:47for
54. 1:47uh work we're seeing today like such a
55. 1:50divide in the media more of this like
56. 1:53this left and this right kind of
57. 1:55competing against each other
58. 1:57where do you think this kind of began
59. 1:59this divide where we have like
60. 2:01left-leaning media and leaning media so
61. 2:04in this country we actually used to have
62. 2:06extremely partisan media if you read the
63. 2:09newspapers at the time of the founding
64. 2:11and even for a long period after that
65. 2:13they are extremely partisan
66. 2:16they wear their bias on their slaves and
67. 2:18then we had this period of time in the
68. 2:20middle part of the previous century
69. 2:23where we moved to what a lot of people
70. 2:24call the american model of journalism
71. 2:26where you aim toward objectivity and you
72. 2:29have just this like voice of god with a
73. 2:31shared set of facts and then people can
74. 2:33make up their own mind about that shared
75. 2:35set of facts
76. 2:36and that was always more an ideal than
77. 2:39reality and a lot of
78. 2:41liberal advocacy actually got pushed
79. 2:43through this this
80. 2:45model and it's just completely fallen
81. 2:48apart in recent years as everybody with
82. 2:51a pulse understands that the vast
83. 2:54majority of our corporate media has a
84. 2:57hard left not just bias but propaganda
85. 3:00approach to
86. 3:02talking about really important things
87. 3:04you know global pandemics or um you know
88. 3:08international affairs or what's
89. 3:09happening in the country at any given
90. 3:11time and the trust in today's media is
91. 3:13kind of i would say it's not as
92. 3:16trustworthy you noticed that i'm just a
93. 3:18little bit yeah where do you think this
94. 3:20has really come from yeah so um
95. 3:23it is off the charts bad for the for the
96. 3:26corporate media nobody really trusts
97. 3:28them only like even
98. 3:31uh their numbers aren't great among
99. 3:32democrat or leftist readers
100. 3:36they are the only ones who will report
101. 3:37any amount of trust and that is purely a
102. 3:39reflection of the fact that much of the
103. 3:42corporate media exists to advance their
104. 3:44agenda so it's not it's not really
105. 3:46meaningful in any sense um but yeah
106. 3:49they've completely lost the plot in
107. 3:52recent years they went from
108. 3:55some bias
109. 3:57some extreme bias i always think it's
110. 3:59funny that the first republican
111. 4:01president to complain about bias was
112. 4:03dwight eisenhower there's been a long
113. 4:05complaint of the republican party and
114. 4:07conservatives uh but in the last several
115. 4:10years has just become
116. 4:12i mean just they have nothing they are
117. 4:15um there's so much embracing
118. 4:19narrative pushing over reporting of
119. 4:21facts that there's nothing left what is
120. 4:24the difference in reporting a narrative
121. 4:26as opposed to just reporting
122. 4:29truth or facts right so ideally you
123. 4:31would be just
124. 4:33whatever the thing is that you're
125. 4:34writing on you'd be collecting
126. 4:37facts and trying to report them
127. 4:40in a way that matched the scenario
128. 4:42and what we've seen happen with our
129. 4:44corporate media is that they're not
130. 4:45really interested in reporting facts
131. 4:47they're interested in pushing a
132. 4:48narrative they want to push people into
133. 4:51doing something maybe it is accepting
134. 4:54draconian lockdowns as a response to the
135. 4:56global pandemic so rather than just
136. 4:58reporting honestly about what we know
137. 5:00what the rates of infection are what the
138. 5:03rates of transmission are they
139. 5:05worry about how reporting facts might
140. 5:08affect their real goal which is to push
141. 5:10you know lockdowns or to push a shutdown
142. 5:12of the economy or to have a certain
143. 5:14political aim and so they shape
144. 5:16everything to match the narrative rather
145. 5:18than just letting the facts go where
146. 5:20they may and you saw that i mean we've
147. 5:21seen this for years but particularly i
148. 5:23think in response to last couple years
149. 5:25with the with the global pandemic there
150. 5:27was just an open acceptance of
151. 5:29suppressing news for fear of how it
152. 5:31might affect
153. 5:33political goals and that's very
154. 5:35dangerous i mean it's important that
155. 5:36people you know sometimes facts are not
156. 5:38fun to deal with like
157. 5:40you take for example the um
158. 5:43early days of the global pandemic
159. 5:46there was some concern that maybe the
160. 5:48wuhan institute of virology had
161. 5:50something to do with the cobot 19 and
162. 5:53that was suppressed that was like
163. 5:55violently suppressed you couldn't talk
164. 5:57about it and you could even be banned
165. 5:58from social media and it would have been
166. 6:01good to know that that was a logical
167. 6:03line of inquiry for foreign policy
168. 6:05reasons for national security reasons
169. 6:07for health reasons you know who knows
170. 6:08who would have been saved it might have
171. 6:10affected vaccine development and yet it
172. 6:12took like a year for for that to be
173. 6:15allowed to be discussed and that was all
174. 6:17narrative pushing instead of facts and
175. 6:19so when we focus on that narrative you
176. 6:21mentioned that it's like dangerous to
177. 6:23the country
178. 6:24how in what ways is it dangerous in so
179. 6:26many ways because now you think also of
180. 6:28what happened to an entire field public
181. 6:30health professionals which were largely
182. 6:32held in high regard at the time this
183. 6:34started and you know i think people
184. 6:37understand that public health
185. 6:39professionals are like anyone else that
186. 6:40you might believe something to be the
187. 6:41case and later you find out it's not
188. 6:43true
189. 6:44but because of the way that the media
190. 6:47and public health professionals work to
191. 6:48kind of suppress information or to push
192. 6:50narratives i think you've seen a decline
193. 6:53of trust not just in the media but in
194. 6:56the public health profession itself so
195. 6:58you know this has been a very bad
196. 7:00pandemic that we've lived through it's
197. 7:01obviously taken many people's lives it's
198. 7:03injured a lot of people
199. 7:05but it's not the worst thing you could
200. 7:07ever imagine happening
201. 7:09and if there were something else
202. 7:11unleashed upon the world that was even
203. 7:13worse you can imagine that the last
204. 7:16people you might trust would be some of
205. 7:18these same professionals that were so
206. 7:20wrong in the last couple of years do you
207. 7:23think today we value
208. 7:26truth and like fact reporting as opposed
209. 7:28to people who reinforce our opinion yeah
210. 7:31i think it's human nature to want to
211. 7:33have your opinions reinforced i think
212. 7:36studies have shown that people
213. 7:38very much
214. 7:40flock to arguments that support their
215. 7:42already held biases and that's just
216. 7:45something that we all deal with even if
217. 7:47we wish that we didn't and so we can
218. 7:49personally work to combat that
219. 7:51or just make sure that we're not just
220. 7:52accepting things because it's what we
221. 7:54want to believe is true by going out of
222. 7:56our way to seek out other viewpoints and
223. 7:58test our ideas against those viewpoints
224. 8:01and uh and just you know
225. 8:04be well read do you think it's possible
226. 8:06to be completely objective in journalism
227. 8:08or is there always going to be a little
228. 8:10bit of that bias in there so when i was
229. 8:12starting out i was trained in that ideal
230. 8:15that you are aiming toward objectivity
231. 8:17and i think it's a great way to be
232. 8:19trained you have to work really hard to
233. 8:22make sure that you are
234. 8:23looking at other viewpoints including
235. 8:25them
236. 8:26you know questioning your assumptions
237. 8:28and so i think that's important no
238. 8:30matter what type of journalist you are
239. 8:31you should always be thinking what are
240. 8:33the different arguments that are out
241. 8:34there um i'm not a huge believer in the
242. 8:37success of the
243. 8:38of that american model of object aiming
244. 8:41toward objectivity i just saw how it
245. 8:43didn't work and how it was used to kind
246. 8:46of um
247. 8:48i don't know
248. 8:49it was it was something that made people
249. 8:51feel like they were doing something more
250. 8:52than they were actually doing something
251. 8:54but i still kind of prefer it to some of
252. 8:56the corruption that we've seen recently
253. 8:59like i thought
254. 9:00i don't know how much you remember what
255. 9:01was going on in 2015 2016. i was a
256. 9:05freshman in high school
257. 9:08but um so that was the that was the
258. 9:11period where the media just completely
259. 9:13got broken
260. 9:14they had been previously claiming that
261. 9:16they were non-partisan and objective and
262. 9:19with the rise of
263. 9:21the republican presidential primary with
264. 9:23donald trump they just they just
265. 9:24completely broke and they openly
266. 9:27admitted that they felt their job was to
267. 9:29interfere in the election keep him from
268. 9:31being elected you know portray news in
269. 9:33such a way so as to decrease the chances
270. 9:36of him being elected not cover news
271. 9:37stories or come and it just
272. 9:39was
273. 9:40really bad and i thought that
274. 9:42after that effort failed in 2016 that
275. 9:45maybe they would return to this idea of
276. 9:48pushing facts instead of narratives of
277. 9:50not having everybody in the newsroom be
278. 9:53a crazy left winger uh promoting people
279. 9:56who weren't that way firing people who
280. 9:58were that way you know i thought maybe
281. 9:59it would be a big wake-up call and
282. 10:01instead they somehow got worse i mean
283. 10:032015 2016 was less bad than than the
284. 10:06rest of that administration where they
285. 10:09embraced this crazy conspiracy theory
286. 10:12they pushed it they broke all of their
287. 10:13own journalistic standards to push out
288. 10:16false anonymously sourced stories again
289. 10:19pushing an agenda that was you know not
290. 10:22one that they should have been pushing
291. 10:23and they just seem to be addicted to
292. 10:26failure um and partly because it's
293. 10:29lucrative for them like powerful forces
294. 10:33like
295. 10:34this new model of journalism i mean jeff
296. 10:36bezos bought the washington post it's
297. 10:38it's a good idea for him as one of the
298. 10:41world's wealthiest and most powerful
299. 10:42people to be able to control a major
300. 10:44publication all corporations kind of
301. 10:46feel this way and so they don't care
302. 10:48that they're hurting the country maybe
303. 10:50even hurting the world
304. 10:52it's helping them and their bottom line
305. 10:53and so they
306. 10:54i don't see it changing anytime soon
307. 10:57that's really bad news but yes
308. 10:59great well why did you really get into
309. 11:01journalism where did you first realize
310. 11:03you want to get into journalism was it
311. 11:05because you can see it kind of going
312. 11:07down this path and we need people to
313. 11:09kind of oh combat that yeah it's a good
314. 11:12question that i should probably have a
315. 11:13good answer to but i i guess i was
316. 11:16interested when i was younger like i
317. 11:18think i started
318. 11:20a school newspaper in elementary school
319. 11:23i was yearbook editor for two years in
320. 11:25high school so i was interested in it
321. 11:27but i knew i wanted to become an
322. 11:29economist so i studied economics in
323. 11:31school
324. 11:32and that's the road that i thought i was
325. 11:34going down and then
326. 11:37i don't really know exactly how it
327. 11:39happened except that everybody i knew
328. 11:41who i was friends with they were
329. 11:43journalists and they really liked their
330. 11:45jobs they weren't paid that much but
331. 11:47they really liked their jobs and they
332. 11:48enjoyed that they could you know study
333. 11:50different things and like cover this
334. 11:52topic one day and cover a different
335. 11:54topic the next day and interview people
336. 11:57and i thought that it sounded fun and so
337. 12:00i
338. 12:00made a go for go of it and i i loved it
339. 12:03like the first time i saw my byline i
340. 12:05was covering the
341. 12:06fcc
342. 12:07um
343. 12:08you know like the radio and recording
344. 12:10industry and it was a totally boring
345. 12:12story but it was my first byline and i
346. 12:14was totally hooked and i was like this
347. 12:15is what i'm gonna do where was your
348. 12:16first violin it was a publication called
349. 12:18radio and records oh cool
350. 12:21uh you've always been pretty transparent
351. 12:23about your faith have you seen that
352. 12:24affect your career or your reporting at
353. 12:26all
354. 12:27it's mostly helped i can't i mean i'm
355. 12:29maybe entirely helped yeah so i think
356. 12:32that some lutheran and
357. 12:34we have certain things that just help us
358. 12:36think through how to live our lives like
359. 12:40we have a strong
360. 12:42views on vocation like you serve god by
361. 12:45serving your neighbor and you have
362. 12:46different vocations like you can be a
363. 12:48daughter a wife a mother
364. 12:51an editor and and you have different
365. 12:53roles in each vocation
366. 12:55and as a journalist your job is to serve
367. 12:58others
368. 12:59by telling factual things and you know
369. 13:02bringing people into
370. 13:04a place where they might not have been
371. 13:05able to be before you cover a
372. 13:06congressional hearing or you cover an
373. 13:08event a protest and you get this very
374. 13:11special role
375. 13:12to help other people who couldn't
376. 13:14otherwise know about it and so i like
377. 13:16that i like also um
378. 13:19a commandment that i struggle with is
379. 13:21uh putting the best construction on what
380. 13:23other people are saying you know we we
381. 13:25teach that the commandment against
382. 13:26bearing false witness is much more than
383. 13:28just not lying but that you have to
384. 13:31really put the best construction on what
385. 13:33other people are saying i obviously fail
386. 13:34at that all the time but i like being
387. 13:36reminded of that so that when i you know
388. 13:38when i want to go after someone i think
389. 13:40well what were they trying to say and
390. 13:42can i
391. 13:44articulate that in a fair way and still
392. 13:46critique it but by being
393. 13:49as honest as i can be about what they're
394. 13:50saying do you think your faith has
395. 13:52shaped your conservative values or if
396. 13:54that's led you kind of like down this
397. 13:56political and into your political
398. 13:58beliefs at all my husband and i talk all
399. 14:00the time about how much the last few
400. 14:02years have been very hard for people in
401. 14:05washington dc
402. 14:06and i think that they make politics
403. 14:08their religion it's everything for them
404. 14:10and power is everything for a lot of
405. 14:12people and we
406. 14:15my husband's a journalist also and we
407. 14:17love politics and we're really
408. 14:18interested in it but the
409. 14:21the the core of our lives is in our
410. 14:23church and our faith and and like the
411. 14:25higher things eternal life and so what's
412. 14:27happening in politics is so much less
413. 14:29important than our eternal salvation and
414. 14:32it gives us this this balance and
415. 14:34perspective that i think helps you just
416. 14:36not lose your mind when things are a
417. 14:37little bit in turmoil around you
418. 14:40and um
419. 14:41and that has been extremely helpful for
420. 14:43us and being open about your faith and
421. 14:45then also just talking about politics
422. 14:47you face a lot of criticism how do you
423. 14:50kind of handle that and not bend to what
424. 14:52these people are kind of like saying
425. 14:54about you or forcing you maybe try to do
426. 14:57so
427. 14:58i don't know i i hear that but i think
428. 15:00actually what i what i mostly receive
429. 15:02from people is just a profound amount of
430. 15:06gratitude like if you look in my email
431. 15:08it's just full of people saying really
432. 15:09nice things
433. 15:11and i think it's about who do you want
434. 15:12to be liked by and i remember when we
435. 15:15started the federalists someone said
436. 15:17that we were dangerous because we didn't
437. 15:19want to be liked by the new york times
438. 15:21and i loved that because so many
439. 15:23conservative media people they're
440. 15:25desperate to get hired at the atlantic
441. 15:27they're desperate to get hired at the
442. 15:28new york times i would i don't even
443. 15:30understand why you would want those
444. 15:32things i do care about whether average
445. 15:34americans who i think are
446. 15:36you know the backbone of this country
447. 15:38who have done so much and never get
448. 15:40represented in the media i care what
449. 15:41they think so i i like who likes me and
450. 15:44i also like who doesn't like me i
451. 15:46understand and i feel like the people
452. 15:47that you're looking to like you those
453. 15:49people that you talk about like the
454. 15:50backbone of america what's the best way
455. 15:52for like the average citizen to stay
456. 15:55informed in today's political world yeah
457. 15:58i think it takes a lot of effort it
458. 16:00probably always took a lot of effort but
459. 16:02now because of what we were talking
460. 16:03about with the credibility of the media
461. 16:05being at an all-time low people are
462. 16:07aware that they can't trust some of the
463. 16:09news sources that they've trusted
464. 16:11previously and so i think it's just
465. 16:13important to still get a wide you know
466. 16:15wide variety of inputs and make your do
467. 16:17as much original
468. 16:19viewing of things as you can like one
469. 16:21thing that's great about the internet
470. 16:23and everybody being the reporter is you
471. 16:25can you can kind of like watch a video
472. 16:27of a hearing yourself or you can
473. 16:30read an original document yourself and
474. 16:31make up your own mind about it and so
475. 16:34for me personally what i like to read
476. 16:36like the only
477. 16:37real big corporate media that i
478. 16:40read every day is the wall street
479. 16:41journal i still like it it's not perfect
480. 16:43but i like it
481. 16:44um and then i use real clear politics
482. 16:47which is a web site that kind of covers
483. 16:49things from left center and right kind
484. 16:51of puts the best arguments forward from
485. 16:53all perspectives and it updates
486. 16:54regularly throughout the day so i love
487. 16:56that and then i have like a highly
488. 16:58curated
489. 16:59uh social media feed where people i
490. 17:01trust i follow and so i think that's
491. 17:03that's a good thing um find a voice you
492. 17:05trust find a voice who's told difficult
493. 17:08truths you know and just
494. 17:11maybe keep listening to them unless they
495. 17:12give you a reason to stop
496. 17:14speaking of like biases you've
497. 17:16interviewed all types of people
498. 17:18do you prefer to interview someone who
499. 17:20maybe agrees with you politically or
500. 17:22somebody who you kind of oppose in a
501. 17:25political way
502. 17:26it's easier to interview people who you
503. 17:28oppose so i would prefer that your
504. 17:31questions just come naturally when
505. 17:32you're thinking like
506. 17:34you know they give you an answer and you
507. 17:35just instinctively think why that was a
508. 17:37wrong answer so you can kind of navigate
509. 17:39it better it's harder to do when you
510. 17:41agree with someone on the other hand
511. 17:43when someone is you know
512. 17:45more aligned with you you kind of can
513. 17:47dig deeper in certain ways to flesh out
514. 17:50what's going on but i'm not the world's
515. 17:52uh best interviewer i've admitted that
516. 17:54before but i've gotten to interview
517. 17:56really high-level people
518. 17:59and it's you know it's always
519. 18:01it's always interesting um
520. 18:03but i find it like you have to have a
521. 18:06balance between going after the
522. 18:08information that you came to get
523. 18:11you know you're usually there for a
524. 18:12reason but also letting the person that
525. 18:15you're interviewing kind of have a say
526. 18:17in what they're gonna what they're gonna
527. 18:19talk about um
528. 18:20you know i don't like just a completely
529. 18:22belligerent interview i wanna hear i
530. 18:24wanna really come to understand what it
531. 18:26is that yeah that they're thinking well
532. 18:28you say you're not the best interviewer
533. 18:29but it's like not every day that i get
534. 18:30to ask you for interviewing interviewing
535. 18:33tips
536. 18:34how do you prepare for an interview
537. 18:36so i have interviewed i mean it's funny
538. 18:38like i've done so many interviews now
539. 18:41that usually i just think about what it
540. 18:44is that my
541. 18:45my my near goal is which is a story
542. 18:48where i probably have a pretty good idea
543. 18:49of what it is that i want to find out
544. 18:51and uh and just and just i plot it out
545. 18:55i practice like what i'm gonna what i'm
546. 18:57gonna ask but i also think like if you
547. 18:59can interview in person that is so much
548. 19:01better than over the phone and during
549. 19:04covid times i've had to do so much over
550. 19:06the phone and you can't get a feel for
551. 19:08what how comfortable someone is or you
552. 19:10know when you're in person you can feel
553. 19:12like do they want to go deeper here do
554. 19:14they want to
555. 19:15you know did they pause in a weird way
556. 19:17and look a certain direction so that you
557. 19:18know that they're thinking about
558. 19:20something that you want to interrogate
559. 19:22um but i like to also just you know if
560. 19:25you can interview someone in their
561. 19:26office or in their home i love that
562. 19:28because you get
563. 19:29little cues about what's important to
564. 19:31them um and you just can be more
565. 19:33comfortable with them
566. 19:35um by talking about like oh i see that
567. 19:37sports jersey
568. 19:38what's that about the non-verbals yeah
569. 19:41they're important well and just kind of
570. 19:44treat people as people right without um
571. 19:47without having to just be there for
572. 19:49business
573. 19:50but i think just as much research as you
574. 19:52can do beforehand so that you're not
575. 19:54wasting time
576. 19:56and i don't know
577. 19:58so you've interviewed president trump
578. 20:00who he's pretty high profile
579. 20:02do you have like a best trump story from
580. 20:05like that interview so i just want to
581. 20:06first say that he is the most difficult
582. 20:08person in the world to interview i'd
583. 20:11imagine yeah i mean
584. 20:12he's like
585. 20:13you you ask him a question here and he
586. 20:16goes all the way around before getting
587. 20:18you know and you're kind of trying to
588. 20:19bring him back to the thing why do you
589. 20:21think he does that
590. 20:23i don't know he's a really interesting
591. 20:25cat i also think it's weird because he's
592. 20:28much nicer in person than he is uh like
593. 20:31on tv he comes off like a total
594. 20:34yeah no i understand antagonistic guy
595. 20:36but then when you're in person with him
596. 20:37he's usually
597. 20:39just i don't know he's much uh much more
598. 20:41gentle i talked to this one reporter who
599. 20:43said that most
600. 20:44most politicians
601. 20:46in public they're kissing babies and
602. 20:48they're complimenting your wife and then
603. 20:49in private they're just jerks and then
604. 20:52trump is the one who will insult your
605. 20:53wife and like attack the baby but then
606. 20:55in private being like really nice um
607. 20:58sorry but what was your question about
608. 21:00oh best trump story i don't know um
609. 21:04he's just just from the interview
610. 21:06perspective one thing that's interesting
611. 21:08is he'll he has his own rules so you
612. 21:10know in journalism you say um this is on
613. 21:13the record or it's
614. 21:15uh on background on background so on the
615. 21:17record means you can use it totally and
616. 21:19quote the person
617. 21:20on background means you can use the
618. 21:22information but you can't tie it to the
619. 21:23person that you're talking to and then
620. 21:25off the record means it's more like for
621. 21:27your own context you're not supposed to
622. 21:28use it and then people come up with
623. 21:30other things they're funny like deep
624. 21:31background which is like i really mean
625. 21:33don't tie my name to it but he'll say
626. 21:35stuff like this is off the record but
627. 21:37you can use it
628. 21:39you're like what does that mean but in a
629. 21:40weird way like the more you're around
630. 21:42him the more you understand exactly what
631. 21:44he means he means that more like his
632. 21:46background
633. 21:47i think
634. 21:49i hope it hasn't been a problem yet thus
635. 21:50far but um so i've interviewed him in
636. 21:53the oval office i've interviewed him
637. 21:55elsewhere in the white house i've
638. 21:57interviewed him at mar-a-lago several
639. 21:59times and he's just you know like i said
640. 22:01you need a much more tenacious
641. 22:02interviewer than i am to have like a
642. 22:04fully productive thing but i've spent a
643. 22:06lot of time with him and i find him to
644. 22:08be
645. 22:08truly
646. 22:10fascinating
647. 22:11um he did teach me how to take a picture
648. 22:13which i think is funny um
649. 22:16after one of my interviews at mar-a-lago
650. 22:17for my book on the 2020 election
651. 22:20i had realized like i'd never taken a
652. 22:21picture of him even though i'd be you
653. 22:23know i never had like
654. 22:25i'd had many opportunities but i'd never
655. 22:27done it and so we're walking out of his
656. 22:29place and i said well you know can i
657. 22:31take a picture of you and say why don't
658. 22:32we take one together and and so uh
659. 22:36we take a picture and his assistant
660. 22:38shows him the picture and he says i
661. 22:40don't like her and i don't like me
662. 22:43and he's like let's move over here so we
663. 22:46move over to this other location we take
664. 22:48it and she shows him and he says
665. 22:50i like me i still don't like her
666. 22:53and he's he's like i'm gonna teach you
667. 22:55how to take a picture
668. 22:56and he gave me all these tips like you
669. 22:59you look at what the background is not
670. 23:01just the people who are in the picture
671. 23:03he's like so we want to have the
672. 23:04background be
673. 23:05this beautiful mar-a-lago estate you
674. 23:07know with the grass the green grass
675. 23:08below us whatever and then he was
676. 23:10teaching me things like to turn to the
677. 23:12side and put my hand on my hip and like
678. 23:14put my chin out and so we take the
679. 23:17picture oh and he says you can trust me
680. 23:19my wife's a supermodel
681. 23:21was like
682. 23:22i am aware that your wife is a
683. 23:24supermodel yes and um and so
684. 23:27his assistant shows him the picture and
685. 23:29he kind of pauses and he says
686. 23:32well there you go
687. 23:33and it was better
688. 23:35you know what i was thinking how am i my
689. 23:37age and none of my female friends ever
690. 23:39taught me how to take a picture fair
691. 23:41enough and the former president of the
692. 23:43united states is teaching me like really
693. 23:45excellent tips on taking pictures like
694. 23:47it just
695. 23:48was one of those like absurd moments but
696. 23:50was really funny and so now
697. 23:52i'm still not great at taking pictures
698. 23:54but every time i you know when someone
699. 23:55does it i'm like okay wait hold on what
700. 23:57did what did okay
701. 24:00do you think interviewing different
702. 24:02people like that would be maybe the part
703. 24:03you like the best about your job or i
704. 24:05guess what would be the favorite part
705. 24:06about it i don't know i will say so of
706. 24:08all the people i've i've loved
707. 24:10interviewing presidents i've had a few
708. 24:12former president or current or former
709. 24:14presidents um
710. 24:16senators i enjoy senators but i really
711. 24:19enjoy
712. 24:20interviewing um judges
713. 24:22and justices i think because they don't
714. 24:25talk that much to the media
715. 24:28they are very
716. 24:30logical in their thinking
717. 24:32um
718. 24:34it's just interesting i'm just that's
719. 24:35the thing i've enjoyed most is covering
720. 24:38federal judges or other judges and just
721. 24:41getting a better understanding of their
722. 24:43thinking i think because i'm personally
723. 24:44quite interested in the law so yeah when
724. 24:47i first met you last spring you came to
725. 24:49my advanced writing class the first
726. 24:50thing i look is like does she have a
727. 24:52wedding ring um because i'm interested
728. 24:54in knowing how do you balance kind of
729. 24:57like having a family and
730. 24:59a high-profile journalism career
731. 25:02poorly no
732. 25:04so my husband is
733. 25:06the main person who got me into
734. 25:08journalism we were friends at the time
735. 25:10that i followed him into journalism and
736. 25:13he's taught me
737. 25:14everything i know he's with me on
738. 25:16everything and so even to the extent
739. 25:18that i would love to not be
740. 25:22working so much and he's always the one
741. 25:24encouraging me to get out there and do
742. 25:25things having someone who's fully
743. 25:28supportive and a partner is really key
744. 25:31having
745. 25:32a clear understanding of what's most
746. 25:34important so
747. 25:36we both work from home so we're both
748. 25:37very involved in our children's lives
749. 25:40we're very involved in our church and so
750. 25:42it's just like natural balance provided
751. 25:44by just having people who love you and
752. 25:46are with you no matter what's going on
753. 25:48politically i mean even the fact that
754. 25:49they're people i go to church with who
755. 25:50are wildly different political
756. 25:52viewpoints and we all love each other
757. 25:53and we all work together and we're you
758. 25:55know doing the oktoberfest together or
759. 25:58in the in the church choir together and
760. 26:00it just reminds you of what's actually
761. 26:02important versus what people in dc think
762. 26:04is important and this kind of builds off
763. 26:07of that in a way do you have advice for
764. 26:10young people who are looking to go into
765. 26:12a career in journalism
766. 26:15i mean that's that's a broad question
767. 26:17i don't know can you narrow it down a
768. 26:19little bit yeah sure okay i'm gonna be
769. 26:21graduating in may
770. 26:23i'm 21 years old and i ultimately would
771. 26:26like to be in dc um and i want to be a
772. 26:29journalist coming out of hillsdale what
773. 26:31would be i guess
774. 26:32a main takeaway for me as i'm graduating
775. 26:35and going out into that world yeah so i
776. 26:38think it's really weird because when i
777. 26:40started in journalism it was a
778. 26:42completely different path you had i mean
779. 26:45it was kind of standard you start out at
780. 26:47a local paper like even if you wanted to
781. 26:49do tv journalism you started a local tv
782. 26:52outlet and then you slowly worked your
783. 26:53way up into the bigger markets or you
784. 26:57figured out what your beat was going to
785. 26:58be and then you just like drilled into
786. 27:00that you know if you knew you wanted to
787. 27:01be a tech reporter for the rest of your
788. 27:02life you could just kind of work your
789. 27:04way up that way and in the last 20 years
790. 27:08everything's kind of fallen apart
791. 27:10there aren't many local media outlets so
792. 27:12there aren't like good ways to start
793. 27:14local and then get bigger i mean you can
794. 27:16still but it's just
795. 27:17so many fewer opportunities on that
796. 27:20front but then so many more
797. 27:22opportunities in dc and new york with um
798. 27:25outlets that have particular
799. 27:26perspectives and so i think just kind of
800. 27:28accepting the reality that that's that's
801. 27:31where we are now like there's there's no
802. 27:34mainstream journalism anymore that's
803. 27:36just gone it's all
804. 27:38left or right and that's just the fact
805. 27:41and some people like to claim that
806. 27:42they're mainstream they're not they're
807. 27:44left
808. 27:45and um just understanding like what it
809. 27:48would mean if you were to go into a left
810. 27:50media outlet and what it would be like
811. 27:52or to go into a right media outlet and
812. 27:55um so i think that's one thing just
813. 27:56understanding the reality of the of the
814. 28:00environment and then the other thing i
815. 28:01think is just like experiences
816. 28:03everything and don't worry about making
817. 28:06a huge splash right away until you
818. 28:08really know
819. 28:09have like mastered the writing or
820. 28:11mastered being on tv and then you can
821. 28:14kind of like get a feel for everything
822. 28:16and then go for for a big um
823. 28:19everyone's different some people can
824. 28:20make a splash right away but i think
825. 28:22that i've seen a lot of people really
826. 28:24want to share their opinions
827. 28:26very quickly out of college and you know
828. 28:28if you're a hillsdale educated person
829. 28:30you have well-formed opinions i get it
830. 28:32but there's something to be said for
831. 28:33just humbling yourself to the idea
832. 28:36that other people might have something
833. 28:38to teach you for the next several years
834. 28:41and just learning the craft learning the
835. 28:42trade and then going for it
836. 28:44so yesterday you emailed me and we were
837. 28:46kind of you're asking me we're preparing
838. 28:48for this i guess and i asked you what
839. 28:50you were wearing you suggested to me i
840. 28:52never answered like a softball t-shirt
841. 28:55that we should wear softballs t-shirts i
842. 28:57got you a softball shirt oh since i am
843. 29:00on the softball team so i do this is
844. 29:02like awesome if you come back on campus
845. 29:04yeah you will we should just put them on
846. 29:06right now
847. 29:07i love it
848. 29:08great i did want to give you that right
849. 29:09so this is your softball team this is my
850. 29:12softball team we actually i head to
851. 29:13texas tomorrow nice why we're doing this
852. 29:15today yeah well thanks for making time i
853. 29:17really appreciate it this is awesome
854. 29:19it's wonderful to get to hang out with
855. 29:20you i have two requests yes would you
856. 29:22mind signing my rigged book
857. 29:24um
858. 29:25and then of course also could we get a
859. 29:27photo that's like my that's more of my
860. 29:29parents request they were like can you i
861. 29:31know that's cool that you don't want a
862. 29:32photo with me but no i do but like
863. 29:35[Music]
864. 29:44you