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Mohan Bhagwat’s Foreign Conspiracy Remark Sparks Face-Off With Yogendra Yadav | India Today — Transcript

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0:00Okay, let's raise the big questions then
0:02tonight. Foreign conspiracy a bogey to
0:06discredit the street protests? Are the
0:09RSSBJP in sync now on how to deal with
0:11street protests? Is regime change only
0:14through polls in this country? Can India
0:17ever be really compared to a Bangladesh
0:20or a France?
0:22on my face off today Rakkesh Sina former
0:24Rajya Sabha BJP MP and RSS from the RSS
0:28and Yogendra Yadav co-founder Saraj
0:30India I want to go to both of you and
0:32give you equal time on this I want
0:34Yogendra Yadav you first to respond
0:36because when Moan Bhagwat says that in
0:39some way these are divisive forces who
0:42are out to in a way bring a western
0:45playbook into India saying the heat from
0:48the west is now moving to the east how
0:51do you respond
0:54>> uh
0:54>> Rajit there are two ways of reading what
0:56Mr. Bhagwat and Mr. Modi have said one
1:00way is to see that maybe this pious day
1:02of Vijay Dashmir has inspired some deep
1:05self-reflection and deep self-criticism
1:08when Mr. Moan Bhagwat says that there is
1:10a storm from the west I completely agree
1:13I think this is a 200-year-old story and
1:16it has brought three ideas that Mr.
1:19Bhagwat actually mentions occasionally.
1:21One is the very idea of development.
1:24Second is a very understanding of
1:26Hinduism as a religion and third is the
1:30idea of nationalism of the kind that BJP
1:32practices RSS practices and advocates.
1:36All these three ideas are western
1:38imports. All these three ideas have been
1:42pushed by RSS. And maybe Mr. Bhagwat has
1:45had a moment of self-reflection.
1:47Similarly, when Mr. Modi says,
1:53I want to hug him. I think this is such
1:56a deep sentiment. I'm so happy that he
1:59has had this moment. Maybe from 2002
2:02onwards, he has never had a moment to
2:04reflect about it. Maybe today is the day
2:06he's finally reckoned with it that those
2:08who want to divide this country on Hindu
2:10Muslim lines are enemies of this
2:13country. This is treason proper. So one
2:16interpretation is that both of them have
2:18had a moment of self-reflection in which
2:20case they should be respected. We should
2:22listen to them very carefully and give
2:24them time time to understand the
2:26implications of what they have said. The
2:28second interpretation is that both of
2:30them are dead scared. They can see the
2:33storm looming on the street. They are
2:36scared. They do not know how to handle
2:38it. uh when they say all this is and you
2:42know all the thing about Bangladesh,
2:44Nepal I completely agree India cannot be
2:46compared to Bangladesh, Nepal or France
2:48or so on India cannot be compared to
2:51others but those who look at things in
2:54France and suddenly say this is
2:56happening in India must believe that the
2:59kind of anger that was seen on the
3:02streets of France, the kind of anger
3:04that was witnessed on the streets of
3:06Bangladesh is probably close to the
3:08anger being witnessed on the streets of
3:10India. It must be their interpretation.
3:12It's not my interpretation. They must be
3:15scared because of that
3:16>> interpretation. No, no, one minute. No,
3:18no. Yogendra Yadav because you see the
3:20moment you enter that uh enter that
3:23terrain, it will be easily suggested
3:25Yogendra Yadav is and and because we
3:28live in the age where comments can be
3:30sliced and diced. There will be those
3:33who will say that Yogendra Yadav is now
3:35comparing or or saying the anger on the
3:37streets of Bangladesh and France I is is
3:40a bit similar to that of India. You want
3:42to clarify exactly what you're trying to
3:44say?
3:45>> I I said exactly the opposite. In fact,
3:47I said you know this talk about France
3:50and Bangladesh are not things I'm
3:52talking about. Mr. Bhagwat is talking
3:54about this and I was trying to imagine
3:57what must be his reasons for trying to
3:59play to compare the two. And I can
4:02imagine that he must have this fear in
4:04his mind and he must have conveyed it to
4:06Mr. Modi that the anger is similar. I of
4:09course don't believe that. As I said
4:10very clearly, I do not believe and when
4:13it comes to regime change, let me say it
4:15very clearly. Regime change has two
4:17different meanings. One is democratic
4:20transfer of power through elections
4:22which is what India has always seen
4:24which is what India must see which is
4:26the only way forward for us during the
4:28constitution and following democracy the
4:32and the onus that this path remains open
4:35and remember this path remained open
4:37even after the emergency in 1977.
4:41So as an Indian I do not look at any
4:43other path. The onus of ensuring that
4:46this path remains open is on the regime
4:50is on the election commission and is
4:52finally on the Supreme Court of India.
4:55>> I I'll go to Rakkesh G in a moment but I
4:57just want one more clarification. Do you
4:59agree that the use of the word regime
5:01change can easily be interpreted? You're
5:04a political scientist and regime change
5:06is often seen not just as a government
5:08change but a complete change in the
5:11entire system and therefore is that a
5:14word that one should be cautious about
5:16before using which was used
5:19by uh your the likes of Prashan Bushan
5:22and others at a press conference and has
5:24been easily exploited in the times in
5:26which we live. Do you have to be careful
5:28about the words you use? Uh Rajib the
5:31word regime change has very often been
5:33used to describe any significant change
5:37in power. For example, 1977
5:40was seen, described and very routinely
5:43talked about regime change. 2014 was
5:47also seen and described as regime
5:49change. But you are right in some
5:51circles the word that's why I said
5:53regime change could mean democratic
5:56transfer of power, peaceful and
5:57democratic transfer of power. But not a
6:00routine transfer but a significant
6:01transfer of power as it happened in 77
6:04or 2014.
6:06On the other hand, regime change can
6:08also be me used for insurrectional.
6:11It can be sataran or it can be takal in
6:15which case it is undemocratic in which
6:17case is against the constitution and I
6:19really really hope that we do not ever
6:22have to exercise that option in this
6:24country.
6:25>> Okay. So Sata Paratan versus Takta Palat
6:29uh Rakkesh G you see this word regime
6:32change and foreign orig foreign funds or
6:36foreign conspiracy are being now latched
6:38on both by uh Moan Bhagwaji and the
6:41prime minister to seemingly suggest that
6:43these protests are going to spread
6:45anarchy across the country. I mean do
6:48you think uh do you agree with Yogendra
6:50Yadav G that this is not this is
6:53spreading fear that there is fear being
6:55spread uh about the protesters rather
6:58than uh trying to address their concerns
7:01their grievances.
7:03>> You know Moan Bhagat GI has just two
7:06important things which one should
7:07understand. First thing is that
7:10democracy in democracy there is a space
7:12for protest there is space for
7:14demonstration there is space for dissect
7:17he not occasionally he time and again
7:19repeated this having said this he warned
7:22two important things his warning is
7:26equivalent to the warning by Baba made
7:29in the constant assembly in his last
7:30speech that you we must guard our
7:34sovereignty our democratic tradition and
7:37our society from from internal threats
7:40that internal threats Baba Samka used
7:43Jaffer and Jachand so I'm not calling
7:46anybody Jafar Jachand but this is this
7:49is this is to be noted that long ago
7:52Baba Samka warned and what we are
7:54finding the these andolan GBs what they
7:57do your own channel is being described
7:59goi media how will he defend your
8:01channel the person who is coming on your
8:03channel outside says it is goi media he
8:06comes here he abuses the government. He
8:08protest against the government. He he
8:10said hund of the things under the Modi.
8:12He still said this is a Modi media. So
8:14these narratives are dangerous for
8:16democracy. One second we have a
8:18consensus ra
8:26that any change in the power would be
8:28through the ballot paper not through
8:30other means. This is that's
8:33certain people who are using change. I'm
8:37surprised Joendra Jad was a respected
8:38political scientist. He's forced to
8:41defend in a wrong way the regime change
8:43in 1977. Not a single newspaper wrote
8:46regime change in the power transfer of
8:50power even during the colonial period
8:51after nobody said regime change. Regime
8:54change is a orthodox term used what in
8:57Latin America happens. Second important
8:59thing why moan gi you see the pink
9:02revolution in Latin America. What is the
9:04pink revolution? Emergence of the left
9:05parties there may be corruption but how
9:08the new liberal new imperialist America
9:11had intervened and demolished the all
9:13these strong leaders will be in Latin
9:15America all the any strong leader who
9:17emerges so-called third world country
9:19developing country is enemy of America
9:22so the non-state actors like CIA and
9:25other agencies they plot they
9:28assassinate the capital assassination
9:30the rumors funding so many but I don't
9:34No, I I I must stop you there. I I must
9:36stop you there. I want a clarification
9:38from you. Are you telling me are you
9:40telling me what is going on in India
9:41should be likened to what was going on
9:43in Latin America with CIA funded
9:45operations? You see, when you when we
9:47make these stuff, here we have Marco
9:49Rubio in India, the external affairs
9:51minister is giving him a red carpet and
9:54here you are seemingly suggesting that
9:56the CIA fund is funding this operation
9:59without any proof. My worry is all of
10:01this is on inven. Do we have any proof
10:03that what is happening in India is CIA
10:05funded? Is that what you're saying?
10:06>> Do I need do No, I I was talking of the
10:10Latin America.
10:10>> No, no, when you talk of you have to be
10:13very careful, sir. You have to be very
10:14careful. Are we saying what is happening
10:16in India is like to what has happened in
10:18Latin America.
10:19>> Don't let me complete
10:22you taking
10:24I I I am talking of Latin America that I
10:27am giving that western powers are
10:30waiting. They are in opportunity. Indian
10:32education is democratic agitation. Our
10:34children are agitating. They have full
10:36right to agitate. They have full right
10:37to protest. They have right to
10:40parliament. They have right to sit on
10:41dhana. Why not? In 1974 we did. But the
10:44question is that you are why you the the
10:48political parties which are trying to
10:50appropriate exploit. Second important
10:52here you see the prime minister Modi G
10:55the most responsive democratic leader in
10:57the world. After that education
11:00responded he responded through the
11:02SOCIAL MEDIA HE TALKED TO THE people
11:04there no question
11:06which Indra Gandhi didn't do in 197475
11:09SEE IMPOSED emergency thousands of
11:11people were under the chain and you are
11:14comparing that Raj there's a 61%
11:17increase in the road national highway
11:1969% increase in the universities large
11:22number of all industry of medical
11:23sciences 2.3 lakh 4.3 lakhs rupee paid
11:27to the farmer
11:292014. So you see the development at the
11:33ground level. Go to rural India is not
11:36only urban area. Go to the rural areas.
11:38See sir this is sir this is not a debate
11:40over sir debate over this is about
11:42democra sir this is about democracy.
11:45This is about democra you are saying sir
11:47one minute sir let me stop you. You have
11:49said more than once just now that this
11:51government has no problem with uh with
11:54with protests. In the same breath those
11:56who protest are called andolan jvies are
11:59called dimmagi nakals. The name calling
12:01continues. Today bhan bhagat gi saying
12:03that this is all foreign funded. I want
12:05to know if you are so if you are if you
12:08have no problem with protest then why is
12:11sorav das and ashto shranka still in
12:15jail when all all they have done is I
12:18have spoken to dozens of lawyers. They
12:20are saying there is absolutely no reason
12:21they should have been in judicial
12:23custody for a week. My point to you is
12:25if you have no problem with protest why
12:27you try to discredit them. Why all this
12:30attempt by saying foreign funded and
12:32GBagi
12:33you call the farmers Kalistthanis
12:37the person I have respect but you know
12:40any agitation he reached there he he he
12:43and like him consider that they are they
12:46have natural right to lead all agitation
12:48anybody any part of the country and you
12:50ask Joendra Jaduji what is his opinion
12:52about 370 you ask Joendra Jaduji about
12:55what his opinion about in uniform civil
12:57code you ask Joendra Jadi What his
12:59opinion of the PK? His all opinions ARE
13:03AGAINST INDIA. YOU ASK Jaduji of the
13:06construction bra temple. You ask Jaduji
13:08renovation of the renovation of the
13:11Somna temple. SO THE SOFT POWER THEY ARE
13:13AGAINST INDIA. FOR THE HARD POWER they
13:15are against India. They are Andulan GB
13:17they dimin because they WANT TO DESTROY
13:20THE
13:22fabric of India.
13:23>> Sir I I've heard you. I wanted to avoid
13:25making this personal in any way but
13:26Yogendra Yadav you deserve a right to
13:28respond. No no no one minute one minute
13:30sir. Now I've heard you. You have
13:31effectively called Yogendra Yadav a
13:34serial Andolan Gvi who's there wherever
13:36there is a protest directed against the
13:38Modi government. Yogendra Yadav G. You
13:40see this will be the other way in which
13:42your protest will be discredited. The
13:44point that Rakkesh S is making is that
13:46what was citizen protest, student
13:47protest against exam irregularities has
13:50now become against CC with political
13:53parties. according to Rakkesh Sina
13:54riding on the wave that started with the
13:57cockroach jantaa party four five months
13:59ago and he's trying to draw a
14:01distinction between what was happening
14:02in June July and what is now happening
14:04in September October your response
14:07>> uh Rajep I must compliment you you could
14:10see a point in what Rakkesh Sajji said I
14:13actually failed to but you you are
14:15brilliant as ever you saw a point you
14:17know I saw two or three problems one was
14:20uh when the US ambassador is here and we
14:22are talking about to come and you know
14:24talking about CIA at that point is not
14:26necessarily a great idea but of course
14:28he's entitled to it. uh second uh you
14:31know speaking on India today to say
14:33India today is goi media raised this
14:36question which I did not raise Rajep but
14:38you know why does he remember goi media
14:40where you know India today I just don't
14:42like it and number three of course he's
14:44not uh saying anything against me he has
14:47not actually called me anything he has
14:50actually the only thing I want to assure
14:52him is Rakkesh gi I don't have that much
14:55wisdom which you expect me to have you
14:57know 370 UCC See even P I have actually
15:01no wisdom on P. Please enlighten me. I
15:03would be very happy to learn. As you
15:05know this has never been my area of
15:07expertise but I would be very happy to
15:09learn. So I want to assure Rakkesh G
15:12that the kind of gan which he expects
15:14from me. I actually don't possess but I
15:17have just one small request. Rakkesh G
15:19has assured that Mr. Modi's government
15:22has no problem with agitation with dha
15:26outside the parliament as he said sir
15:28jagadi
15:36please please speak to delhi police
15:38please get ashtoanka released please get
15:41s of dash released they will not carry
15:43any arms they would not do anything
15:45stupid please
15:49you know can I
15:52Yeah. Okay. You you reply and then I'll
15:54come to exactly what Bhagwan Gi said on
15:56protest. Go ahead.
15:58>> No no no you know we have we have
16:01democracy in democracy there are
16:03institutions. Do you think that Narendra
16:05Modi is a monarch that he would ask
16:06someone to get arrested he would ask
16:08someone to get released. It is there is
16:10a court when court verdict is against
16:12you. You will see the Supreme Court.
16:14What Sanjay Rao said
16:17he he what in that he wanted to
16:20communicate that somewhere the court was
16:22burned so he he he just he had given
16:26sense so court will decide police will
16:30decide you give Narendra Modi every
16:32power you make a constant assemb
16:37of this country
16:43Police
16:44if if there is a miscarriage of justice,
16:47do I have the right to question or not?
16:48Do I have a right to question? I'm not
16:51>> I I have right to question the Supreme
16:53Court verdict. Why not? This is
16:55democracy. But why are you blaming the
16:58every for everything if it does not suit
17:00then you will condemn the institutions?
17:02You are throwing the baby instead of the
17:04bucket. What you are doing? That's why
17:07Bhagat Gi Bhagat GI asserted that
17:09[laughter] in in the light of the
17:10continuity integrity you fight each
17:13other we can fight each other for power
17:15that in in the power game there's a
17:18competition it is a game of dice but
17:20game of dice should not in such a way
17:23that country should be divided in the
17:24cast and communities politics of
17:27appeasement you did for 77 decades you
17:30are blaming us for the Hindu Muslim and
17:32Joend Jad does not can't answer on 370
17:36can He answer on India TV television
17:38that he does not regard India TV as a
17:40body goi media. If he has guts he should
17:42say that sir sir sir this debate is not
17:45no let me be very clear this debate is
17:47not about India today. NO NO NO LET'S
17:49NOT SIR I AM I HAVE CALLED BOTH OF YOU
17:52AS BACH
17:57on your own channel
17:58>> sir I am very clear I am very clear if
18:01Rajep sardesa is allowed to say what he
18:03wants on a channel to call that channel
18:05goi media at least at 9:00 p.m. will be
18:08very difficult. I am you have a freedom
18:10of speech to call me tomorrow dhbari he
18:12has a free free speech to call me goi
18:14media
18:16sir
18:18so I don't want to make it about
18:20democracy sir sir this debate is not
18:23about the media I just want to go back
18:25to moan bhagat and what he has said moan
18:27bhagwat says yogendra yada protest
18:30inevitable in a democracy agitation
18:32should be for solutions protest alone
18:34won't bring solutions everyone must
18:37ensure protests are peaceful protest but
18:39for solution not for cheap popularity.
18:42You see there is one fear that these
18:44protests that are happening is about
18:46spectacle politics about insta reels.
18:49It's not about something more
18:50substantive which will lead to
18:52solutions. That's where protests can get
18:56discredited if they don't have a clear
18:58aim or a clear mode of functioning.
19:01>> Uh one light and one serious remark
19:04Rajep. Uh the first one is the moment uh
19:07Mr. Rakkesh Sina talks about India today
19:10somehow he brings up goi media the
19:12moment you mention Mr. Modi he brings up
19:14monarchy I did not mention monarchy
19:17suddenly he brings up monarchy I don't
19:19know what's going on in his mind but
19:20I'll let that be on the more serious
19:23note on what Mr. Bhagwat has said uh yes
19:26he's absolutely right a protest must be
19:29aimed at solution. If a protest says has
19:32no goal has no demand or has demands
19:35which are outside the framework of
19:37country's democracy and constitution
19:39then of course it's very very odd. Now
19:41what are the protesters demanding? They
19:43are saying number one either Mr. Ganesh
19:46Kumar should be should resign or he
19:49should be removed. What is
19:50anticonstitutional here? Both these
19:52possibilities exist within the Indian
19:54constitution. Number two, they are
19:56saying sir should be rolled back. Now
19:59the election commission itself has
20:01started the process of rolling back.
20:02They are saying that we need to get back
20:05people who are left out immediately
20:07after cleaning up the country's roles.
20:09You say there are people left out. What
20:11is it if not rolled back? Protesters are
20:13doing do say don't do don't do it from
20:15the back door. Do it from the front
20:17door. What is unconstitutional here? And
20:19number three, they are saying there is
20:21an act of 2023 passed by the parliament
20:25which goes against the judgment of the
20:28Supreme Court and which gives the three
20:30election commissioners the kind of
20:32immunity that even the chief justice of
20:34India does not enjoy. The president of
20:36India does not enjoy. Please repeal that
20:38act. So there is a there is a clear
20:42agitation. There are demands demands are
20:45within the framework of Indian
20:47constitution. I think it meets Mr.
20:50Bhagwat's uh m what Mr. Bhagwat is
20:53saying. So could it be that Mr. Bhagwat
20:56is hinting to Mr. Modi that actually
20:59these these agitators have put a demand
21:03that they have a solution? They are
21:04actually suggesting a solution. So could
21:07it be a backhanded message to Mr. Modi?
21:09I don't know. You would know these
21:10things better.
21:12>> Okay. I I I want to end with you Rakkesh
21:14SA and you see Yogendra Yadav is saying
21:16the protesters have given a clear agenda
21:18and he's absolutely right. We are seeing
21:20the election commission now rolling back
21:23on some of its earlier pronouncements.
21:25But I want to ask you straight your
21:27foreign hand
21:30I remember when Indra Gandhi was in
21:31power in the 70s the BJP or then the
21:34Jansen would complain what is this
21:36foreign land what is now you are
21:37bringing the foreign land. Are you
21:39serious about the fact that protests
21:41that are going on in France between
21:42far-left groups on one side far right
21:44are a foreign have to be reflected
21:47what's happening in India that in
21:48Bangladesh a protest that took place
21:50very much in the context of Bangladesh
21:52is replicated in a foreign hand it's
21:55very good that Bhagwat says that protest
21:57should be peaceful should work for
21:59solutions but why bring in this foreign
22:01hand
22:02>> no
22:03what what are you trying to achieve with
22:05this foreign hand no
22:07>> you want us to be united No mhaji time
22:10and again said that there is no foreign
22:12hand in Indian agitation. This is just a
22:15note of caution. Note of caution can be
22:17given by anybody. When babas
22:20no he didn't say that sir he didn't say
22:21that. He didn't say he didn't give a
22:23note of caution. He said
22:27he said that very clearly sir. That's
22:29more than a caution. No you look you
22:32look raish just listen to me. Our
22:34parliament is functioning. There are
22:36elected oppositional parties. There's a
22:38method to remove chief election. There's
22:40a method to remove the president of
22:42India. If the Rahul Gandhi says that he
22:45failed they should resign from
22:47parliament then then the importance of
22:49important
22:53then every district there will be
22:55thousands of people demanding of the DM
22:57and the DM would resign. 5,000 people
23:00gather demand the resistance OF THE
23:01MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT. I I gather 10 one
23:04lakh people and demand that is not the
23:07solution. There should be solutionentric
23:09agitation and agitations are welcomed. I
23:12welcome a student agitation. I welcome
23:13the demonstration. I welcome the
23:15disscent but the descent demonstration
23:18agitation protest must not create
23:21non-gangan atmosphere. That's why we
23:24have model of Mahatma Gandhi. Why you
23:26are going beyond the Mahatma Gandhi's
23:28model? Sir sir will you call will you
23:30call the Hindu raa sir sir sir Rakkesh
23:32Rakkesh Sab yeah yeah one minute sir
23:34will you call Rakkesh Sina the Hindu Raa
23:37dal protesters who were caught on camera
23:39beating up protesters Gandhian or
23:41non-Gandian
23:43definition are they Gandhian what are
23:45they Gandhian or non-Gandian
23:46>> any any raadal whether name is Hindu
23:50Muslim or Christian using violence must
23:52be condemned they
23:53>> so why didn't why didn't mo Bhagwat have
23:55a word to say about them I didn't see
23:57Bhagwat say one heard about them.
23:59>> Why doesn't Mo Bhagat call out the Hindu
24:01Raan if he's so worried about peaceful
24:03protest? Why should Bhagat call out the
24:06Hindu Raad?
24:07>> Your
24:09sir Muhammad Mahar Bhagwat G said that
24:12no violence should be accepted. The
24:15Hindu Raadas violence it comes under
24:16that violence. Bajang violence bajangal
24:19violence during Christmas accepted
24:22even does violence it should be
24:24condemned and the should be under the
24:26jail.
24:28>> Good. Okay. Y final quick words.
24:30>> I think I think it is a statesman like
24:33suggestion and I think Joendra Yadav and
24:36others should understand the things and
24:38RSS is giving an opportunity for me pot
24:41not melting pot. We in democracy
24:42[laughter] there is importance of
24:44melting pot. Okay, quickly Yogendra
24:47Yader G. Uh
24:48>> I completely agree. RSS gives lots of
24:51opportunities like Balasab Das wrote two
24:53letters to Indra Gandhi during opp
24:55during the emergency congratulating her
24:58on being exonerated by the Supreme Court
25:01and complimenting her on speech. Yeah.
25:03So they have given all kinds of
25:04opportunities to everyone. But when
25:06Rakkesh G mentioned that you know you
25:08should follow constitutional norms about
25:10removal of CEC all I would remind Rajep
25:13is in the month of March a formal notice
25:17for impeachment was given. It could be
25:20dismissed it could be repealed in it
25:22could be defeated in the parliament. Why
25:25has it not been discussed in the
25:28parliament for the last 7 months? And if
25:31you do not do things in Sans, it will
25:33happen on Saddak.
25:35>> Okay, let me leave it there. Let let me
25:37>> No,
25:39one sentence.
25:40>> Okay. When opposition is not not
25:44allowing parliament to function, they
25:45don't listen to the prime minister. You
25:47are asking for
25:48>> they don't listen to I [laughter] was in
25:50the Rajya Sab prime.
25:51>> Sir, what stops the sir? What stops the
25:53Rajya Sabhad chairman under the rules
25:55for accepting an impeachment notice MP
25:58signature at least accept the notice you
26:00have the majority defeat it you can
26:02easily defeat it the problem is sunset
26:04doesn't function the protest spill onto
26:06the street which is unfortunate but
26:08that's the way it is but I appreciate
26:10both my guests joining me on the show
26:12today I really hope that uh the message
26:15goes out loud and clear this is the land
26:18of Gandhi in many ways and Gandhi if you
26:20read him particularly through the 1920s
26:22believed that the right to protest was
26:24absolutely fundamental to what he was
26:27doing against the colonial rule.

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