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Mobster interview -Sammy "The Bull" Gravano — Transcript

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0:01um I was uh born in Benson
0:05Brooklyn uh my mother and father came
0:08from Italy
0:12Sicily my mother was a seamstress my
0:15father came over through Canada as an
0:18illegal alien it took years for him to
0:21become a citizen but they were
0:23hardworking good
0:25people um there was five of us my
0:28brother Frank
0:30vano would died before I was
0:32born uh then I had they had twin girls
0:38twin sisters one of them died before I
0:39was born uh Jenny and another one jeie
0:44lived years later Fran Fran gravano was
0:48born and five years later I was born so
0:52I was the last of five
0:54children and
0:56uh you know I went to public school
1:00in public school I had a hard time I was
1:04dyslexic letters looked backwards to me
1:08numbers look different to me and I had a
1:11real hard
1:13time I got left back in the fourth grade
1:16and then again in the seventh
1:18grade I joined the
1:22gang and
1:24uh I think that was my my out in life
1:28was a gang getting away from the school
1:30school I was Bel belittled because I
1:33couldn't spell right do things right in
1:36a gang it was a different life it was a
1:39good life for
1:41me and
1:43uh like I said eventually I got kicked
1:47out of
1:48school uh I once was picked up I was
1:52drunk with by a TR TR officer and uh
1:57when I was brought into the principal
2:00um he started talking about us there was
2:03another guy who got caught with me and
2:08uh he mentioned about my family this is
2:12the way these grease balls are grease
2:15balls is a slow against Italians doesn't
2:17offend me but um but he wasn't talking
2:22about me he was talking about my parents
2:24how I was brought
2:25up and at one point I did get up and I
2:28told them listen bro
2:30I played Hookey my parents are good
2:32hardworking people don't don't associate
2:36them with me in that manner and the way
2:39you
2:40talk he told me sit
2:43down he carried on and said the word
2:48again he
2:49said look this is how they are this is
2:52how they grow up these [ __ ] grease
2:55balls I got up and I hit him a shot and
2:58I broke his jaw
3:00I was thrown out of school it was
3:03shallow junior high
3:04school and uh so I was eventually
3:09brought to the board of education and I
3:11went to McKinley Junior High School it's
3:14in a different
3:16neighborhood and uh I got in trouble
3:18there as well for
3:21fighting and
3:23uh went to the Board of Education again
3:26and I was sent into 600 school for the
3:29most corrupt the corrupted kids
3:31around and uh by that time I had become
3:35a Class Clown to make up for my not
3:38being able to spell properly
3:40or I would tell jokes and things and
3:43make people laugh and in the 600 school
3:47I said something one
3:49day uh funny and so everybody laughed
3:52and a guy got up behind me had a long
3:54black coat with a cap I think he was a
3:58Muslim I'm not
4:01and he was holding like a Bible or
4:03something and when he was yelling at me
4:06he was calling me the devil and he was
4:08tapping me on the
4:10forehead I hit him and broke his
4:13jaw that's when I was thrown out of the
4:16system completely they said I
4:19was uh
4:21encourageable and uh they said when he's
4:2416 years old you come back sign him out
4:27of school period if you don't do that
4:29that the next step is reform school so
4:33they let ke kept me out of school for
4:35about 6 months and then my family went
4:37back
4:38and signed me out of school so I never
4:42got out of the eighth grade I never got
4:44to ninth
4:45grade and I stayed in a
4:48gang and in a gang we fought nothing
4:51crazy but we fought and hung out and I
4:54helped my parents with the uh their
4:57little small dress Factory
5:00and
5:01uh when I was 19 I got drafted into the
5:06military during the Vietnam
5:09war and uh when I was there I was sent
5:14to Fort Jackson South
5:17Carolina um and that was in 1964 was a
5:21whole different era a whole different
5:24time um I was in basic training
5:29I went through
5:32that I always had different problems in
5:36the
5:37military uh one day we were online I was
5:40a
5:41server and uh I knew a black guy who was
5:45drafted as well was a friend of mine he
5:47was in front of me and a couple guys
5:50came
5:52online and one guy I heard him tell him
5:55the black guy
5:58um Whip It on me
6:00boy I heard the word boy I knew he
6:03wouldn't like that and I turned around
6:05and looked but it didn't seem to bother
6:06him it was well built but it didn't
6:09bother and then he came to me I think I
6:12was there was beans or something and I
6:14was putting it into this
6:16metal compartment of the metal
6:19plate and uh he did the same thing he
6:22says whoop it on me boy and I put it in
6:26until it was Dripping over the sides and
6:29and uh he threw everything on the on the
6:33counter I had this long metal spoon that
6:36I was working with and he looked at me
6:39he says I said whoop it on me I tell you
6:41when to
6:45stop I said all right and I whacked him
6:48right in the forehead with the
6:50spoon he went flying backwards but now
6:54realizing that the next two guys were
6:56with him friends and I got hit with a
6:58plate right in the face
7:00knocked me backwards black guy jumped in
7:02to help me and me and him were fighting
7:05the whole place broke into a
7:08fight and then the MPS
7:11came and one of the MPS was a sergeant I
7:15guess he was in charge black guy heavy
7:17guy and he says you like jumping in
7:20helping black uh black guys
7:25boy I knew he made a mistake he thought
7:28I jumped into help him it was the other
7:31way around but I think I was smart
7:34enough to say well that's the way it is
7:37I'm not good with all this racist [ __ ]
7:39I'm from New York and I I seen him in
7:43trouble the black guy didn't say a word
7:45who was fighting with me we both sitting
7:47on the
7:49floor the sergeant winked at me a little
7:52bit I know I got it beat shut my mouth
7:57they told me from now on you and you
8:00that's all you do is peel
8:02potatoes never be on the line again or
8:04stuff like that so I had some troubles
8:07in the
8:07military nothing
8:10big um I was
8:12taught by the government we were going
8:14to go to Vietnam I was taught to
8:17kill and uh and I was bullshitted by the
8:21government they're bad people they're
8:23Communists they're going to come here
8:24they're going to rape your mother your
8:26sisters and they're going to take over
8:27the country they brainwash you into
8:30wanting to kill it's the military that's
8:32when we go there that's what we're
8:34supposed to
8:35do but I never
8:38went we got orders to go to
8:41Vietnam and there was a list my name and
8:43a whole bunch of names were on it that
8:46wen't going to go and I went into CO's
8:49office and I said uh why isn't my name
8:51on the list I was friends with everybody
8:54I wanted to go it's not that I wanted to
8:56go to
8:57war but I didn't want to be left behind
8:59and my friends were
9:01going it was more that and he said you
9:05have to have one year left I only had
9:08eight months left and everybody was on
9:10that list didn't have a year so we
9:13weren't
9:15going so that was the reason that I
9:18stayed behind I stayed in the
9:20military when you joined it was a
9:22threeyear
9:24hit when you got drafted it was
9:27twoe and my twoe
9:30was almost up so I stayed there and I
9:34got
9:35out I got out of the military and I was
9:38arrested and stuff all my life on and
9:41off and I went right back to the street
9:45gang the rampers and hooked up with them
9:48it was us against the
9:51world but when I got back it was
9:53different they all seemed to H hook up
9:57with a Mafia Family they became an
10:00associate in the
10:02mafia and I didn't want
10:05that so I didn't but eventually a friend
10:08of mine Tommy speo his uncle shorty
10:11sparo was a major guy in the mafia and
10:15he wanted to talk to
10:17me I was willing to talk to him he said
10:20Samy you seem like a tough kid you're in
10:22fights all the time you're quick to
10:25throw punches you're not with anybody
10:29sooner or later you're going to get
10:31killed if you're with
10:33us you'll have
10:36family you'll have
10:39protection we'll never lie to you we'll
10:41never
10:42backstab and on occasion when I ask you
10:45to do something I've already done it and
10:47I'll be with you I knew what he meant I
10:50was familiar with the mafia growing up
10:53in the neighborhood a lot of murders and
10:55stuff like
10:57that but being part of a family and
11:00having that relationship I shook his
11:04head I became an associate in the
11:08Columbo crime
11:11family
11:13um I was with
11:15Shorty and uh I was there for a
11:19while and
11:22uh we had a small crew Shorty's Nephew
11:25Tommy sparo this guy Frankie this guy
11:28Joe kuchi few
11:30guys and uh Joe kcci's wife was a
11:34good-looking
11:35woman she fooled around a little bit she
11:39has actually having an affair with
11:42Shorty's Nephew Tommy
11:44spear Joe kuchi found
11:48out but it was the boss's nephew
11:53and he got in touch with the the guy
11:56Frankie who was in our crew and he says
11:58Frankie I need your help
12:00help Frankie says of course to do what
12:03he says I want to
12:05kill um shorty sparo the boss and I want
12:10to kill
12:12Sammy so everybody knew about the affair
12:15and his wife and all that stuff and uh
12:18so Frankie told him why do you want to
12:20kill Sammy he's not playing around with
12:22your wife it's not
12:24him he says I know it's
12:27Tommy but if I killed Tommy shorty will
12:31put it together and who's he going to
12:34send he's going to send Sammy So if I
12:37kill shorty and Sammy there'll be such
12:40confusion nobody will know what's going
12:42on six months later I'll kill
12:48Tommy Frankie didn't buy
12:50it he told him okay I'll help you but he
12:54went to shorty
12:56Sparrow when he went to shorty Sparrow
12:58it went to this guy who was a captain
13:00Carmine
13:01perso and Carmine perso went to Joe
13:04Columbo who was the boss of the
13:07family and told him the story and it
13:10came back down the line shorty sparo
13:13called me in and said listen Sammy
13:16you're going to kill Joe kuchi and told
13:18me the story what happened I didn't know
13:20about that all
13:23that and he said uh who do you want to
13:26take with you
13:30I thought I might have been being goated
13:33into thinking you know being told that
13:35Joe kuchi wanted to kill me I couldn't
13:37figure out
13:38why I thought maybe I was being
13:42bullshitted so the first guy I said I
13:44want with me is his nephew I said your
13:47nephew he created this [ __ ]
13:50monster and I want
13:54Frankie I wanted Frankie because I
13:56wanted to be able to talk to him and
13:58find out if if I was being [ __ ] if
14:00this was
14:02true he put both of them on the hit with
14:05me and I grabbed Frankie right
14:08away did Joey ask you to do these
14:11things yes
14:13Sammy then why didn't you come to
14:16me he said Sammy I I saved your life bro
14:19I I did what I was supposed to do I went
14:21to the
14:23boss I thought about it and he was right
14:26he did save my life he didn't say yes he
14:29didn't help the guy he did what he was
14:32supposed to
14:33do and I've never killed anybody at that
14:39point you know I Saw movies and stuff
14:42that a guy was going to do a murder and
14:44he was nervous and sweating and this and
14:47that he was going through all these
14:49things until he killed the guy and then
14:52he just almost mentally dissolved right
14:56on in the movie I thought that that's
14:59what happens to
15:01you we worked on this hit for a little
15:04while One Night in an F hour Club 4:00
15:08in the
15:09morning Frankie Tommy sparrow and myself
15:15and Joe kuchi were in the
15:17club we knew we would take him sooner or
15:20later so we had guns on us I had a gun
15:23on me all the
15:26time at 4 in the morning we went to the
15:29all night Diner on 886 Street in
15:32Brooklyn and uh when he went downstairs
15:35to go to the bathroom I said listen when
15:38we get back in the car Tommy you
15:43drive Joey will get in the passeng you
15:46SE Joe
15:47kuchi you Frankie get behind him and
15:51I'll get behind
15:53Tommy and when we pull
15:56out we'll go down the block and I'll do
15:59what I got to
16:02do he came back up and we got in the car
16:05just this way I had planned the
16:10seating halfway down the
16:14block Tommy seemed to try to cover the
16:18noise or whatever it may be he had the
16:20radio on pretty
16:22loud windows were
16:25closed and halfway down the block I
16:29pulled out a 38 pistol put it to the
16:32back of his head and pulled the
16:34trigger nothing
16:39happened I looked at the gun I couldn't
16:42believe it
16:43I I shot him
16:45again this time his
16:48body vibrated and he moved towards the
16:52window like leaning against the
16:57window and sounded the noise was
17:02deafening course the windows were closed
17:04I says open the
17:07windows the song The Beatles Let It Be
17:10was on and Blasting I said lower that
17:14[ __ ] radio open the windows drive
17:16slow don't go through any lights lights
17:19get on the highway and go to Queens out
17:22of our neighborhood it's more of an
17:25exclusive area where there's houses
17:28there're separate ated they got grass
17:30Lawns and stuff not like our houses our
17:37neighborhood he did that we did
17:41that we got to off the highway it was a
17:44nice
17:45neighborhood I told Tommy pull over over
17:48here it was
17:50dim not dark but
17:53dim and the houses the lights were
17:57shut he pulled
18:00over I told him open the door and kick
18:03him
18:05out he touched his body and he turned
18:09around literally almost
18:11shaking Samy he's
18:14dead he was
18:19petrified I said I know he's dead and I
18:22told Frankie we didn't have electric
18:24windows roll the window down I crawled
18:27over him and and out the window the
18:30passenger door I opened it from the
18:32outside I put one arm under his neck and
18:36one arm under his legs he was a pretty
18:39big guy but I never felt dead weight
18:42before he felt like he was a, lb I was
18:46young I was strong and I just barely got
18:48him up in my arms took him out threw him
18:52on the grass in front of his
18:55home I opened the door and get back in
18:59when my hand hit to se it slid there was
19:02a puddle of
19:05blood I said hold up I opened the
19:09window put the gun out and I shot him
19:12three more
19:14times it's my first hit I didn't know if
19:17he was dead or I I was going to make
19:23sure I told him listen get back to the
19:26highway go back to the neighborhood
19:30my hand was full of blood I was sitting
19:32in a p p puddle of
19:35blood I said don't
19:39speed don't go through lights and we're
19:42going to stop on the way home halfway
19:45right near the ocean I'm going to get
19:47rid of the gun I'm going throw it into
19:48the
19:50ocean I did that then we got back to
19:54where we were living four five of us
19:57guys all guys were living
20:00together I told them take off all your
20:04clothes shoes socks underwear pants
20:07shirt everything we're wearing all of us
20:11put it together one guy's going to get
20:13rid of
20:15it we're not going to wash it we're
20:17going to get rid of it we cleaned the
20:19car as best as we
20:22could and
20:25uh I was going to take a shower
20:30I turned the water on nice and
20:32hot I was under the the shower thing
20:36coming down on me pouring on me I was
20:38waiting for that feeling of being
20:40nervous and shaking and vibrating like I
20:43saw in the
20:45movie it didn't
20:49happen I came out of the shower I dried
20:53up maybe now it'll happen it didn't
20:57happen
20:58I was exhausted I laid down in bed and I
21:01slept I slept like a
21:04baby I got up the next morning a lot of
21:07kids were in the apartment young girls
21:11guys uh one of the girls came over to me
21:14sh had a
21:15newspaper so my God they found Joey
21:18kuchie's body and
21:20queens they killed
21:22him and I asked
21:25her what does it say they did they know
21:27who did it
21:30she said no but they they're
21:32investigating
21:35it the kids everybody we went back to
21:38the corner where we hung
21:40out and then I went down
21:43to when I went down I was aside from the
21:48pack of kids everybody talking and
21:50reading the paper and it was big news
21:54F I felt like I had an atab body
21:57experience
21:59felt like I was above them looking
22:02down and hearing them talking and I
22:07wasn't part of it I wasn't
22:10there and then I was touched and Tommy
22:15sparo I looked he said my uncle Shorty's
22:17on his way here we got to go
22:21downtown it took me out of that whatever
22:25I was
22:27in I got in the car and I went with them
22:30shorty told
22:32me Sammy let my nephew talk to Carmine
22:35Paro who was a captain his
22:40boss um he'll say everything don't say
22:45nothing we went there down Carol Street
22:48downtown
22:49Brooklyn K Paro came
22:52out he grabbed me hugged me kissed me on
22:56the cheek
22:58you did a good job bro you had you you
23:02your first
23:07contract
23:09um the contract was
23:14concluded I got the
23:17car I thought we cleaned it but somebody
23:20had said they can come in with things
23:22they can find a little trace of blood or
23:24something burn the car shorty said
23:29and I did I burn the car got rid of it
23:33so there was no gun no clothes no car no
23:36evidence just us no and the
23:40mafia I was an associate in the mafia
23:43not a maid guy or anything like
23:46that but uh on occasion I would drive
23:50with Shorty from Carmine perso downtown
23:53Brooklyn to Brooklyn where Joe Columbo
23:56used to hang out
23:58we used to park I would get out of the
24:01car I was young I was a kid and I would
24:03stand near the car never approaching the
24:06boss of a family and he would walk over
24:09to the boss Joe Columbo and talk to him
24:12that was our routine that's how it was
24:16done right after the
24:20hit we did it
24:22again but this time when I got out of
24:24the car and I was standing there Joe
24:26Columbo yelled Sammy
24:29come over
24:31here I walked
24:33over and he said uh you don't like
24:37me I said I take the world you why he
24:41said from now on you don't stand by the
24:44car you walk over with Shorty you shake
24:47my hand and you stand right with us
24:50you'll hear us talk never but in never
24:53say nothing you can listen but don't
24:56talk
25:01so he obviously knew about the hit and
25:04he's looking at me in a different way
25:06now an
25:08associate who may someday become a May
25:11guy I was
25:14trusted my reputation
25:17exploded not because they knew or
25:19thought I killed him it was because I
25:22was seen on 86 Street when guys passed
25:25by talking with a boss shaking hands
25:29with him walking away holy [ __ ] sami's
25:33in a circle with the boss and shorty and
25:36he goes downtown my name exploded that
25:41way
25:44um we were always in fights so a lot of
25:48clubs and discos or something we
25:50couldn't go in we weren't
25:53allowed one night we went to one of the
25:55clubs there was a entertainment a big
25:58show and we were online about 20 people
26:02online we were at the back back of the
26:04line people behind us and
26:07uh a bouncer came out looked down at the
26:11line looked at us and went back in I
26:16said you know what's going to happen now
26:17he's going to come out with the manager
26:18or the boss and we're going to be told
26:20you can't come
26:23in so we just waited a while sure enough
26:26he came out with the manager
26:28the manager came over hey Sammy how you
26:31doing shook my hand I said good he said
26:36you going to want to come in
26:38yeah he says all right I'm going to put
26:41you in the VIP room what I'm going to
26:45put you in the VIP
26:47room I said that's great but I'm with
26:49three of my friends I'll take all these
26:51in there I thought for sure we were told
26:54don't come
26:56in uh but matter of fact one of my
26:59friends Lenny Lenny de Mo asked me while
27:02we were walking Sammy did you kill
27:05somebody why are they doing this for us
27:08I said I didn't kill nobody I don't know
27:10you know what happened but that's how my
27:13name started to spread and uh you know
27:16as I was a kid I got the name Sammy the
27:19bull uh a couple of kids who were much
27:21older than
27:23me my father they were working people
27:25they bought me a swin bike break bike he
27:29said you know we don't have a lot of
27:31money so you got to make sure you take
27:32care of the bike I had it one day came
27:35out at a grocery store it was gone
27:38somebody stole it couple of kids from
27:40around the block they were older I was
27:43maybe 10 11 they were 13 a couple of
27:47years older that's a big difference when
27:48you're
27:50young and a couple of days later my
27:53friend said your bike is down the block
27:55near the fruit and vegetable store I ran
27:57down there to go get my bike they had
28:00it and uh they didn't want to give it up
28:03so I fought these two kids across the
28:06street there was a bar mob guys hung out
28:10there and uh they were outside as usual
28:13dressed up suits diamond pinky rings
28:15hung out talked with police cars this
28:18that shooting crap in the street just
28:20like you see in
28:22gos a
28:25movie well one of the guys as I was was
28:28fighting came
28:30across and he said uh Jerry and Kay
28:34that's your mother and father isn't
28:35it I said yeah what's your name
28:40Sammy he told the kids listen that's his
28:45bike if you say it's your bike go get
28:47your
28:48father's and we'll talk to your fathers
28:50if it's your bike they left they never
28:52came back it wasn't their bike they
28:54stole
28:55it but one of the other guys y to
28:59him what's going
29:02on he said it's uh Jerry and Kay's
29:07son uh Sammy right yeah Sammy you see
29:12the way he was fighting he fought like a
29:14little Bull against these
29:16guys and that name Sammy the bull stuck
29:19years later cops came looking for Sammy
29:21the bull until today it's stuck I didn't
29:25like it in the beginning
29:27but you know I try to make all kinds of
29:29[ __ ]
29:30excuses why do they call you a bull I
29:34don't know some girl made it up I try to
29:36take credit that I was a bull and a girl
29:39made it up which is all [ __ ] but you
29:41know so I was trying to have some fun
29:43with it and I didn't really like it but
29:45I had the name that way so anyway
29:47getting back to the Joe kuchi
29:52hit and it brought my status up in the
29:56mob a short time time later there was a
29:59war within the Columbo family between uh
30:03Joe
30:04Columbo Kine Persico Against The Gallows
30:08was pretty famous thing shorty had
30:11called me in I was still
30:14young you know
30:16early 23 something like that and he says
30:22um
30:23uh get your
30:26clothes and come over we're going to hit
30:28the
30:29mattresses now I know today everybody
30:31knows what that means you see it in
30:33movies I didn't even know what that
30:35meant and I said hit the mattresses what
30:37does that
30:38mean he said we're going to live
30:42together you got a girlfriend M see
30:45break up it's don't you you don't have a
30:47girlfriend no more and you don't work no
30:51jobs you come you get your clothes and
30:54you live with us don't worry about money
30:56food or nothing you hit the
30:59mattresses there's a
31:01war they're The
31:03Gallows they hit the mattresses we're on
31:06this side with Joe Columbo and Kine
31:08perso and we hit the mattresses we're a
31:12pack of wolves and we're going to try
31:14and kill the them The Gallows they're a
31:17pack of wolves and they're going to try
31:18and kill
31:20us that's what we do and we stay
31:23together we eat sleep and [ __ ] together
31:26all the time
31:32I kind of understood it a little
31:35bit you know it's the first
31:38time I was involved in anything like
31:40that I already did work so and
31:45uh so I was ready to do it and I said
31:49but I got a girl I could see her once in
31:50a while on a
31:51sneak he say Sammy I told you there were
31:55pack of Wes you're going to go little
31:59sweetheart and you're going to get
32:02laid every
32:04Tuesday somebody's going to see you
32:07they're going to know
32:09it and when you walk out of her
32:11apartment one day or two on a Tuesday
32:15there'll be three four people waiting
32:16for you to blow your [ __ ] brains
32:19out if somebody owes your money you're
32:22going to go you're not collecting you're
32:23not doing anything
32:24anymore there's no more padn to your
32:27life
32:28they'll know you're here with me with
32:33us and I understood it and I did
32:38it
32:40um one
32:42time crazy Joe Gallow was coming home he
32:45was fooling around with Hollywood people
32:47Hollywood women and stuff he got out of
32:50prison and the war was
32:53intense they found out that he was going
32:55to a a hotel in New York had a door man
33:00very expensive
33:02place and that he would pull up with
33:05this woman I think she was an actress I
33:08don't know who she was she was beautiful
33:10but other than that I don't know her
33:12name or anything like that and there was
33:15a dog guy I was young it was the days of
33:18the Beatles and all that stuff I had
33:20long
33:21hair so they said Samy wear a
33:23psychedelic
33:25t-shirt leave your hair long mess it up
33:29jeans today it's fashionable to be
33:32ripped not back then but rip
33:36it dribble while you're standing waiting
33:40like you're stoned out of your
33:43face and when he comes out the door
33:46man's going to walk over to him and
33:47shake his hand right
33:50away shoot
33:52him kill Joe
33:56Gall if the door guy doesn't run or back
34:01away hit him in the face or shoot
34:05him what if he comes out with a woman
34:07try not to shoot
34:09her but if you have to you have
34:14to I was real nervous about that I
34:16didn't want to do
34:18that but I was
34:21ordered I'm now an associating the mafia
34:24I already did a
34:26hit so
34:28uh I stood there the do guy came over to
34:32me tried to chase me I spit coming out
34:36of my mouth I made like I was stoned out
34:38of my
34:39face Jo joal
34:42was and they called him crazy joal but
34:46his car pulled up and out came this
34:48beautiful
34:49broad nice dress a white mink thing
34:53around
34:54her and uh I know who he was he had a
34:57big a mole on his face I saw pictures of
35:01him this was
35:03him and honestly I was nervous as
35:06H I didn't want to shoot
35:09her I didn't want to shoot the dog
35:13guy and they would be right in the
35:15middle right around this whole
35:17thing I was ready to shoot him but I
35:21really didn't want to shoot the other
35:25people he started to
35:29walk on a sidewalk the dog guy did come
35:31over to him shaking his hand and I was
35:35ready to move I had a gun under my
35:38t-shirt and two or three cars pulled
35:41up guys got out of all of them long
35:46trench coats coming down looking
35:50around rifle or shotgun under the coat I
35:53could see on some of them they're armed
35:55they his bodyguards
36:00they looked at me didn't even pay
36:03attention I wasn't wellknown
36:08and
36:10uh it made me
36:14think Joe Gallow moved slow almost to me
36:17in slow
36:19motion the girl on his arm the guy still
36:22talking to him him backing up ready to
36:24start opening a door for him and I know
36:28I could move quickly and shoot him in
36:30the head maybe push her to get her out
36:34of the
36:35way hopefully I could point the gun at
36:37the guy maybe he would run back into the
36:40place and debating on how I was going to
36:43do this but these guys now were
36:45here I knew the minute I shoot him
36:49they're going to kill
36:52me but in the mafia I was under orders
36:58and I thought and thought and
37:01thought and I said [ __ ] it I'm not going
37:03to do this
37:05bro I'm not going to kill this woman I'm
37:08not going to kill this dog
37:10guy and I'm going to get
37:14killed and I'm just not going to do
37:18it I was terrified I didn't do it he got
37:22in the door guys escorted you know the
37:27the the bodyguards most of them left
37:29some one of them escorted them into the
37:31thing to the
37:33building and I was going to the guys in
37:38the Columbo family who were up the
37:40corner waiting for this and I thought I
37:43says oh my God I'm
37:47dead I didn't do it I didn't do what I
37:50was
37:52told when I got there to my surprise
37:56they grabbed me they huged me they kiss
37:57me me Sammy you're great bro you're
38:00[ __ ] we know you did work bro we know
38:02you you're capable we know you're not
38:05scared if you would have shot him they
38:08would have killed you for sure and we
38:09would have thought look at this J off
38:11he's so stupid that he do would do
38:12something like that so now we know
38:15you're capable one two you got [ __ ]
38:18brains you could think we like
38:22that and right away I felt good again I
38:26made the right decision
38:28decision and I didn't want to hurt all
38:30these people that I didn't have to
38:33hurt and I felt good about myself I
38:36wasn't scared
38:37anymore and uh that's how my career
38:41started in the mafia with uh the Columbo
38:47family there was a lot of things
38:49done not too many you know murders and
38:52stuff like
38:53that
38:55eventually I'm going to skip had just a
38:58little bit is
39:00that my entire if you want to call it a
39:04career career in the mafia I was
39:07involved in three Mafia wars that was
39:09one of them with the G with the Gallows
39:13and there was two more one in
39:17Philadelphia and one in New York one of
39:20the most famous hits the P castalano
39:26hit and I was involved in 19 murders I
39:29became a professional HCK
39:33guy I was able to shoot and
39:37think and that's why I was used on many
39:41different
39:43times um I never woke up in the morning
39:46wanting to kill
39:47anybody it was always on the orders of
39:50the
39:51mafia it was always an internal thing
39:55someone broke a rule he had to go and
39:57there was a hit team and A lot of times
39:5919 times I'm on these hit teams I'm part
40:02of it sometimes I'm a shooter sometimes
40:05I'm a getaway driver sometimes I'm in a
40:07crash car sometimes I'm actually
40:09organizing the whole
40:13hit so three Mafia wars 19
40:17murders and by the time it was over I
40:20have over 22 years of my life in
40:24prisons from the toughest prisons in the
40:27adx supermax in Colorado to a witness
40:31unit because later I left the mafia it's
40:34a whole another story I didn't get there
40:35yet it'll take a
40:37while
40:39um so that became my life
40:47and I in my my reputation and everything
40:52was exploding in the Columbo family the
40:55books what they call the books is
40:56closure you can't get made from 1955 or
41:0157 all the way to
41:0375 so there was a lot of guys waiting to
41:07get made but they couldn't get made
41:08because the books so to speak were
41:11closed and my name and reputation was
41:14Rising people were saying when the books
41:16are open I this kid Sammy The Bu he's
41:18going to become a May
41:21Guy shorty spo's brother shorty SPO was
41:25my boss his brother Ralph spe
41:29um wanted his son Tommy sparo the one
41:33who was W me on the first head who was
41:35afraid oh he's dead he didn't want to
41:36touch him he wanted his son to be made
41:40and he didn't like that I understand one
41:43time he had an argument with Shorty spe
41:46and he says shorty why do you keep
41:48taking Sammy down to see K my P go the
41:51boss or Joe Columbo not my son he said I
41:56don't take him down
41:57call my ask for
42:00him and that's why I take him
42:03down so he was like jealous of me
42:06envious of me or whatever it was and he
42:09wanted to raise his son up and me take
42:11me down one guy in our crew a guy named
42:15Ralphie
42:19ranga asked permission he was going to
42:21go on a stickup with another crew
42:24another family he got permission
42:28he was a great guy tough guy great guy
42:31one time when I was arrested he had done
42:34a
42:36robbery uh they would go to the bank
42:38with a bag with money that they would
42:40deposit safety deposit box whatever they
42:42slide it in he did a stick up one time
42:45the bag was there the lock was still on
42:47it we were there he came in he thre the
42:49bag on the table he said pay for your
42:52lawyers and whatever
42:54else I remember saying
42:58there's LEL to be 20 30,000 now that
43:00sounds like nothing but years and years
43:02ago these are Big Numbers I'm talking
43:03about a lot of years
43:05ago he said pay for the lawyers and bail
43:09bondsman and whatever you got to pay and
43:11whatever's left over give it to me it's
43:14mine great guy who would do
43:16that didn't even know what was in the
43:19bag how much so he went on this stickup
43:23with this other
43:25crew it was a
43:28setup it was a jewelry diamond dealer in
43:33Manhattan detectives knew about it cops
43:36knew about it it was a
43:39trap they stuck up the place on the way
43:42out detectives popped up from cops from
43:44all over the place where guns
43:48freeze Ralphie did a lot of years in
43:51president he didn't want to freeze he
43:52didn't
43:53freeze he pulled the gun out and started
43:56shooting
43:58he was hit a number times five six seven
44:00times barely made it back to the getaway
44:02car and flopped in backwards and they
44:05did get
44:06away he died in the car on the way
44:10home they weren't sure if he was dead or
44:13alive they took him out and they put him
44:15in the parking lot near a supermarket
44:18and they called the police a guy is shot
44:21that's the only way they they they could
44:23help him or try to help him
44:27when the cops got there he was there but
44:30he was
44:32dead two weeks after his
44:36funeral um it was a major loss to all of
44:38us he was a good guy tough
44:41guy he should have just went back to
44:44prison but he didn't he decided to shoot
44:46it
44:47up I was in a a a bar in ship Bay in in
44:54Brooklyn and it was a dingy little [ __ ]
44:58and I was talking to a guy named Johnny
45:00Rizzo who's a May guy in The Gambino
45:04family Lou molo who's in The Gambino
45:08family my gomb Ali boy Koma who's in the
45:11geneves family Mikey Mozel who was in
45:14the Columbo family we were all together
45:18[ __ ] hole
45:20Place do
45:23dingy we having a couple drinks and
45:25talking some broad walks in a blond
45:28goodlooking mini skirt high ha good
45:31looking
45:33beautiful and with some guy big
45:37guy the old man Rizzo grabs me he says
45:40Sammy I think that girl's checking you
45:44out now we always used to break each
45:46other's shops joking and clowning around
45:48so I said come on bro she's what a
45:50guy you know stop I don't want to play
45:53We're Going get into a fight beat this
45:55guy up come on stop bull [ __ ] and I went
45:59we talking drinking I went for another
46:02drink a little few minutes later Louis
46:04Malo told me Samy I don't think he's
46:06crowning she's [ __ ] staring at you
46:09bro do you know her and I looked at her
46:12again no I don't
46:14know
46:18um a little while later the guy got up
46:22pretty big guy and walked to the
46:25bathroom
46:27and she started walking
46:28over the old man Rizzo tapped my
46:31shoulder again I told you bro she's now
46:34coming over go see who she who she is or
46:36what she
46:38wants I started walking towards
46:41her as I got within five six s feet of
46:46her I recognized her I never saw her
46:49dressed like that or look like that with
46:51that kind of makeup and everything it
46:53was Ralphie ranga's wife
46:57I said oh my
47:00God what the [ __ ] are you doing here and
47:03who's this
47:04guy she says Sammy life goes
47:09on I know I know life goes on bro but uh
47:13he's not even dead two weeks he's not
47:15even Cold Yet a couple of weeks he's
47:17dead you can't wait a
47:20while she said Sam you know I always saw
47:23the way he used to look at me I could
47:26dump him might get rid of him and me and
47:28you me and you I said get the [ __ ] out
47:31bro by the time I told her get the [ __ ]
47:34out the guy came walking out of the
47:37bathroom he start walking towards
47:40us me and her my friend saw that
47:44immediately they all stood
47:46up he picked up on the vibe he could be
47:51walking into a serious problem he came
47:53over and he told me what's the matter I
47:55said nothing's the matter get this
47:57[ __ ] cart and get out of here get out
47:59of here while you could take her get out
48:02she went to Ralph Spar she
48:05complained Ralph sparo found an
48:09opening I think I could knock sami's
48:12brains in with this bring him down a
48:14level and bring my son
48:17up he reports back to shorty that she
48:21came in and told him about the incident
48:24which she did she was afraid she thought
48:27I got seriously mad that I would do
48:29something I wasn't going to do anything
48:31I just
48:32yelled and
48:34uh he turns
48:37around and uh tells shorty about it and
48:41he says he tried to pick up malie's wife
48:44she refused slapped her around pushed
48:48her
48:49around tried to force her she's
48:54terrified short he said he did that
49:01yeah they're going to do something to
49:05me Ralphie sparrow calls up my wife I
49:08was married
49:09already and tells my wife your [ __ ]
49:13husband try to pick up rfie ranga's
49:17wife call my PR too and then they're
49:20gonna kill
49:21him I come home I don't know none of
49:25this my wife is just hysterical
49:28crying I said what's the matter she said
49:31are you sick you try to pick up
49:33Ralphie's wife and you beat her up and I
49:36what you [ __ ] who have told you this
49:39that didn't
49:40happen she said Ralph called me up and
49:43told me and they're going to kill
49:46you this is a very technical life tell
49:49me way for way what he said she told me
49:53again I went in my bedroom I got a gun
49:56went to Ralphie spo's
49:58house he wasn't home but his wife was
50:01home and I banged on the door and came
50:04to the door I said uh an is Ralphie home
50:08I need to speak to him right away I had
50:09a gun next to my ass behind me soon as
50:13he would came to the door I was going to
50:15shoot
50:16him she said no he went out right away
50:20is there a problem I said no there's no
50:23problem but when I turned to leave she
50:26saw a gun she called
50:30shorty I think Sammy and Ralph there's a
50:35problem and he came here with a gun so
50:38they were going to give me the not kill
50:39me but give me the beating of my life
50:41break my bones break my arms break my
50:43legs 10 20 guys were just
50:46gonna maybe I'll survive it maybe I
50:48won't Rizzo finds out about it he's in
50:51another family he's in a Gambino family
50:53he's a made
50:55guy but me and him always got along he
50:58always was give us tips to Rob Jewelers
51:00and different things so Rizzo came and
51:04told me about it don't go to that
51:07meeting I'll go talk to
51:10them I says I got to go there's a
51:13meeting set up how can I not
51:16go he
51:17said let me come with you
51:20then they're going to break your [ __ ]
51:23they're going to give you a beaten in
51:24the half bro I said but I didn't do that
51:27[ __ ] they're not going to listen to that
51:29let me come with
51:31you I said John you're in another family
51:34bro they'll tell you to mind your
51:35[ __ ] business it's none of your
51:38business let me come with you I'll bring
51:41Louis molo with
51:43me I got in the car with
51:46them we came to the corner where I was
51:49supposed to meet there was a pack of
51:51guys on the
51:53corner Rizzo got out and I got up Louie
51:58was in the car still Louis
52:00Milo shorty Sparrow saw me and he
52:05sure uh Rizo who was a m guy and he came
52:09over and uh he started talking to Sparro
52:14and Sparro told
52:15him bro this is really none of your
52:18business but I know what you're going to
52:20do I was
52:23told I know what happened
52:27I know I was there in the in the place
52:31listen to me
52:33first Lou molo's in the
52:37car you want to hear it from him too he
52:40explained what happened you want to hear
52:42it from him his going Ali boys with the
52:45J of these people you want to hear from
52:46him we can go get him mik Mo was in the
52:49[ __ ] journees with the Columbo people
52:51your people you want to hear from
52:54him he looked at me he says I knew this
52:57[ __ ] kid would have never did
52:59this he came over to me he said Sammy go
53:02home don't come
53:04up till I tell
53:07you I
53:09left the next thing I got was a
53:12call that there was going to be a
53:15meeting down with Ki perso Brother Ali
53:21boy perso Senor who was the Kona family
53:25and actually running it because Carmine
53:28was in prison at that time in jail not
53:30prison but a
53:33jail and the old man Tod o orello a
53:37captain a very powerful captain in the
53:39Gambino family was going to take me
53:42there to this meeting I knew his son
53:45Charlie Boy I grew up with him I knew
53:47his father was a big shot I never met
53:49him I didn't know who he was but he was
53:52going to take me to this
53:55meeting what I didn't know is
53:59that to John Rizo went to his guy to and
54:03to went to Carlo
54:05Gambino the bosses of the Columbo family
54:08and the boss of the Gambino family
54:11talked about the
54:14situation and I was going to now find
54:17out what's going to
54:19happen so I met
54:22T I got in the car with him and I went
54:25to Carol Street parked the car we got
54:29out we went over
54:32there Ali boy piso did most of the
54:35talking and he said
54:39Sammy Ralph called your wife and told
54:42you that my brother Carmine was going to
54:44kill you right
54:47yeah so if you would have got killed
54:50your wife would have thought my brother
54:52did
54:53it we want to kill him for that
54:58and what he did saying that to your
55:01wife but we can't because he showed his
55:05brother we're not going to kill
55:07him you did the right [ __ ] thing
55:11here's where you made your [ __ ]
55:12mistake you were going to shoot him
55:14right in his [ __ ] house in front of
55:16his wife and kids did you lose your
55:18[ __ ]
55:19mind I was so hot shut the [ __ ]
55:24up and now I guess it's wrong
55:32good so you're right but you went from
55:36being right you went wrong to go to his
55:38house he's wrong but he short his
55:41brother we can't keep this together we
55:44know that the old man Johnny Rizzo went
55:47to this man tle who went to call spoke
55:50with us I spoke with my
55:52brother we're releasing you
55:56to
55:58them with no sanctions or no we nothing
56:02we'll always be your friend you got to
56:05give me and us
56:06one promise that you won't kill
56:11Ralph
56:13done he grabbed me hugged me kissed me
56:16on the cheek I shook his
56:19hand and we'll always be your friend
56:22Sammy you got friends
56:24here I got an car with tle and I was
56:28driving back to
56:31Brooklyn Bens I Brooklyn where we came
56:34from and he
56:37said we spoke for you right from the
56:43top you put with
56:47me I want to know everything you
56:50do if you're going to hurt somebody
56:53you're going to get into a fight you're
56:55going to kill somebody you're going to
56:56do a stickup you're going to go get laid
56:59I better know about it before it happens
57:03everything and you're going to come you
57:06[ __ ] working you're going to come and
57:08sit on the corner with
57:10me every single
57:13day and I'm going to school you I'm
57:16going to know every pimple and boil and
57:18what you have on your body I'm going to
57:21know everything about
57:23you this is on a very high level
57:26you embarrass the old man meaning Carlo
57:30Gambino once will'll kill
57:34you you survived this listen to what I'm
57:37telling you I know you know my
57:42son stay with my son a little bit until
57:46you know me till we know each
57:50other I did that on a constant basis
57:57um I think that was
58:001972 which I was married
58:037172 right around there in
58:091976 um I was proposed by T to become a
58:14maid member in the Gambino
58:16family and I
58:18did guys were waiting for years for the
58:21books to open they finally did open in
58:2375 and 76 I was
58:27made one year later right before
58:31Christmas only the May guys and
58:34T were in the back room the associates
58:37were in the other room he called us
58:39together to have a drink to wish us
58:41Merry
58:43Christmas and he said I've never had an
58:46acting
58:48Captain yet I'm going to point
58:52one if I'm sick I'm in prison
58:56I'm not around you can come to my acting
58:59captain and talk to him like you talk to
59:02me you could tell him
59:05anything everybody was nodding everybody
59:09picked up their
59:10drink as of this
59:13day
59:14Sam is my acting captain my acting
59:19abene everybody clicked glasses and
59:23drank I was 31 when I got mared
59:28I was practically just 32 now I'm an
59:30acting Captain already in one year and I
59:33guys who were made for years who were
59:35with him before they even closed the
59:37books so they with him for 20
59:40years I jumped into that
59:44position couple of guys would tell me
59:47and not even his son his son got made
59:49when I got made so they said Sammy how
59:52[ __ ] old are you
59:53br when I got Mar I was 30 I said you're
59:57pretty
59:58young at
1:00:0132 a lot of guys said Sam he was acting
1:00:04captain now you know big position right
1:00:08away a year
1:00:11later in 73 or 74 I don't know how many
1:00:14guys told me now I know why T made you a
1:00:19[ __ ] acting Captain bro you're the
1:00:22man and I was good at what I did whether
1:00:25it was construction
1:00:27jobs helping people hurting people and
1:00:32murder I became a serious [ __ ] HCK
1:00:36guy that was
1:00:38meticulous I'm going to give you one
1:00:40example you who are you out
1:00:44there I have your
1:00:49hit I don't think of my life I don't
1:00:52think of my kids I don't think of my job
1:00:54I don't think of nothing
1:00:56but you you're the only thing that
1:00:59exists in my
1:01:01mind I'm going to know who your wife is
1:01:04who your kids are where you live where
1:01:06you go to
1:01:08work if you got a girlfriend when you go
1:01:10over her house I want to know everything
1:01:13about you and sooner or later I'm going
1:01:15to pick a spot where you're going to
1:01:17die I can't stop until you're
1:01:24dead that seemed to grab the attention
1:01:27of bosses and I went on hits one after
1:01:31the other whether it was in the Columbo
1:01:34family or bosses in the Gambino family
1:01:38after the boss was dead and John Gotti
1:01:40became the boss more hits I didn't even
1:01:42want to go on some of these [ __ ] hits
1:01:44but I got things done my reputation
1:01:50was people on the end if Sammy has your
1:01:54contract you're dead
1:01:58when you have a reputation like that I
1:02:02mean it it carries a lot a lot of
1:02:05weight
1:02:07fear in our life there's all kinds of
1:02:09feelings fear love
1:02:13hate we have all kinds of emotions and
1:02:17feelings fear is a strong [ __ ] thing
1:02:22when you're afraid of
1:02:24somebody but
1:02:27the key is Not Just fear that's a
1:02:30bully if you can fear
1:02:33me if I can make you respect me and love
1:02:39me that is a real hard thing to put
1:02:43together um in colleges and universities
1:02:46they put
1:02:47out um what's his name there
1:02:52uh he was a guy who talked about
1:02:56the life whatever the [ __ ] his name is I
1:02:59forgot his name now but uh whatever it
1:03:03was is a very very hard thing to
1:03:05accomplish it takes a lot of
1:03:07work now the when you are
1:03:13trustworthy and people start to like you
1:03:18and love you and trust you the fear
1:03:21level goes
1:03:23down they not afraid of you no more
1:03:27but they have love and all these other
1:03:29things and
1:03:31respect and they always have the thing
1:03:34in the back of their
1:03:36mind it's like owning a pitbull oh I
1:03:40love this Pitbull you pet it but you
1:03:43know there [ __ ] people could rip your
1:03:44leg
1:03:46off so it's that combination of things
1:03:49and I think I developed that combination
1:03:52I didn't get off on killing I didn't
1:03:55like it
1:03:56I never did I understood like a soldier
1:04:00in the military a cop who's
1:04:04investigating a crime and a guy pulls a
1:04:07gun they kill they're not serial
1:04:12killers they killed because they have to
1:04:14they a soldier in the military or where
1:04:17it is I was a soldier in go
1:04:20austa I never woke up any morning in my
1:04:23life that I wanted to kill
1:04:27somebody it was on orders I was a good
1:04:31soldier if I didn't like you or you
1:04:34annoyed me or something thank God I was
1:04:36pretty good with my hands I was strong I
1:04:39was tough I hit hard I boxed a little
1:04:41bit I would fight you I'd hit
1:04:44you but I didn't want to kill
1:04:47you people didn't get me to that point
1:04:51because of that fear
1:04:53level they maybe wouldn't take that
1:04:55extra step and try to do something crazy
1:04:58with me because they know like that
1:05:02P I like him I'm not going to go and
1:05:05kick him in his face cuz he splits some
1:05:07water he's all to bite
1:05:10me
1:05:12so I don't want to be a psychologist
1:05:14with this thing
1:05:15but that's part of my life now my life
1:05:18could go on for another three days so
1:05:20what I'm going to tell this guy who's
1:05:21filming me is that maybe we can meet
1:05:24again and I could finish up Another
1:05:26Story and Another Story and Another
1:05:28Story he's a good-looking guy I'm sure
1:05:30he's got a girlfriend will run around he
1:05:32wants to leave me I you know want to see
1:05:35me here for three days but uh hopefully
1:05:38we can get together again I I hope you
1:05:40like the stories great Storyteller yeah
1:05:43and it's a story of my life and I can
1:05:45continue that if me and him get together
1:05:47again um there would be my pleasure he's
1:05:50a perfect gentleman he treated me great
1:05:53and uh that's kind of it we'll do it
1:05:57good thank you Sammy my pleasure

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