Min Jin Lee - Family, Education & Sacrifice in “American Hagwon” | The Daily Show — Transcript

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1. 0:00Oh my god. Okay, so your previous book
2. 0:02Pachinko named 15th New York Times 100
3. 0:06best books of the last 21ST CENTURY.
4. 0:09AMAZING.
5. 0:09>> [cheering]
6. 0:11>> AND
7. 0:13>> [applause]
8. 0:14>> I HAVE TO SAY THAT BOOK not my genre at
9. 0:16all, but
10. 0:19no explosions, no superpower, no no spy
11. 0:22I I I I read it because I respect
12. 0:26you so much and it got me back into
13. 0:28reading. So, thank you so much for
14. 0:31I read it. It's a page turner.
15. 0:32It was a page turner. [applause] I
16. 0:34couldn't stop reading it. I recommend
17. 0:35everyone go read it and then I read this
18. 0:37cover to cover.
19. 0:38Uh great book American Ha Gwan.
20. 0:40>> Thank you.
21. 0:40>> Can you please tell us a bit about this
22. 0:43book? You don't have to summarize it
23. 0:44because there's too many people in the
24. 0:45comment section who don't read and they
25. 0:47want
26. 0:47>> [laughter]
27. 0:48>> and they want us to explain this in like
28. 0:4930 seconds. That's impossible. Just read
29. 0:51the book, but
30. 0:53>> [laughter]
31. 0:53>> uh great book. I was
32. 0:55every page I was just engrossed. How
33. 0:56would you kind of without any spoilers?
34. 0:59>> Without any spoilers?
35. 0:59>> Don't spoil it.
36. 1:00>> So, Helen and John are the parents. They
37. 1:02have three kids, Bo, D.H., and Miro.
38. 1:05Uh the kids are born in Paramus, New
39. 1:06Jersey. The parents are South Korean.
40. 1:08They go from
41. 1:10Sydney to Seoul, back to Sydney, and
42. 1:12they end up in Orange County and they're
43. 1:14trying to raise their kids between two
44. 1:16different financial crisis.
45. 1:18>> Okay.
46. 1:18It's a story about family. This is also
47. 1:20a story about education. It's a
48. 1:21>> And about wisdom.
49. 1:22>> Wisdom.
50. 1:23>> Yeah.
51. 1:24Um and can you just tell for the
52. 1:26ignorant Americans in the watching it
53. 1:28right now
54. 1:30what is a Ha Gwan?
55. 1:31>> A Ha Gwan A Ha Gwan is a learning center
56. 1:33in which you pay money to learn a skill
57. 1:35like tap dancing, how to be a broadcast
58. 1:37journalist, to be a comedian. You can go
59. 1:39to a Ha Gwan in Korea for that.
60. 1:40>> Really? There's a Ha Gwan for comedy?
61. 1:42>> Definitely. Definitely. Even K-pop
62. 1:44drama, anything.
63. 1:45>> Oh, okay. But, that's not You see,
64. 1:47because when you this book it really was
65. 1:49like
66. 1:50I felt like you wrote it for me.
67. 1:53>> I did.
68. 1:53>> And I did. Everyone knows that way
69. 1:55[laughter] because the story in it is so
70. 1:56good.
71. 1:57>> your wife.
72. 1:57>> Yeah, you interviewed my wife for it as
73. 1:59well, because um in it the the family uh
74. 2:02is from Asia. They go to Australia,
75. 2:05which is what I did.
76. 2:06>> Mhm.
77. 2:06>> And then
78. 2:08also I I I went to tuition centers in
79. 2:11Singapore. I call it tuition centers.
80. 2:13>> Which are hagwons.
81. 2:14>> You call it hagwons, but the way you
82. 2:15describe hagwons is way more holistic.
83. 2:18In Singapore, you're like people are tap
84. 2:20dancing and like learning comedy. That's
85. 2:22not what the is happening.
86. 2:25>> [laughter]
87. 2:25>> In these Singapore tuition centers, they
88. 2:27are beating the Chinese into people. I'm
89. 2:29telling you.
90. 2:30>> Did you get beat?
91. 2:31>> Yeah, I got beat all the time. I got
92. 2:32beat Chinese cuz I went back to I went
93. 2:34back to Malaysia, Singapore. I was the
94. 2:36kid who I would wake up in Malaysia at
95. 2:384:00 a.m., take the bus into Singapore
96. 2:40to study. So, I was going across the
97. 2:42border anyway. And I went I was I I
98. 2:45moved back to
99. 2:46Singapore when I was 8 years old from
100. 2:48America. So, I had no Chinese in me. And
101. 2:51I had to learn Chinese from scratch. And
102. 2:53Chinese teachers hate 8-year-old boys,
103. 2:57Chinese boys who cannot speak Chinese.
104. 2:59They take it's a personal
105. 3:01affront. And they beat it into And I
106. 3:03know you I've I've seen you do
107. 3:04interviews where you also got beat. But
108. 3:06you got beat in for like I don't You
109. 3:07were just like walking in the back of
110. 3:08the class.
111. 3:09>> That's right. Yeah, that's right. I got
112. 3:10hit I was 6 years old. I finished my
113. 3:12worksheet and I was walking back and
114. 3:14forth in the class. And then the teacher
115. 3:16said, "Come up in the front of the
116. 3:17classroom." So, I went to the front. She
117. 3:18said, "Take out your hands like this."
118. 3:20So, I held my held my hands out and I
119. 3:22thought I was going to get a present.
120. 3:24>> And you did.
121. 3:25>> [laughter]
122. 3:27>> The present of discipline.
123. 3:28>> That's right. And I got smacked in the
124. 3:31my hands quite a bit.
125. 3:32>> Yeah, so we get beat all the time. And
126. 3:34so whenever these American kids
127. 3:36When American kids complain about some
128. 3:38stupid I'm always like, "You
129. 3:39guys are soft."
130. 3:41>> [laughter]
131. 3:42>> And I've seen the both sides. You've
132. 3:43kind of I think you saw both sides of
133. 3:44the Western education and and Korean.
134. 3:47And I saw Singapore and America and
135. 3:49Singapore. And Australian, for that
136. 3:51matter. So, I was able to compare it.
137. 3:52And I was like, "Yeah, they just beat it
138. 3:54into
139. 3:54>> But do you do you think that you
140. 3:55benefited from all those tuition
141. 3:56centers?
142. 3:57>> Yeah, the beating of the
143. 3:59>> [laughter]
144. 4:00>> I mean, the beating made me kind of, you
145. 4:02know, whatever about the world and
146. 4:04>> [laughter]
147. 4:06>> uh it was my villain origin story.
148. 4:09>> [laughter]
149. 4:10>> I mean, the tuition center Well, this is
150. 4:12the thing I was trying to get at before
151. 4:13we talked about these beatings because
152. 4:14um
153. 4:15again, the tuition centers are it's a
154. 4:17lot of scared parents putting their kids
155. 4:20into these things because they don't
156. 4:21know what to do and they're like, "Well,
157. 4:23what you know?" And I wasn't even a
158. 4:24problem kid. I I had I was like a
159. 4:27straight arrow guy.
160. 4:27>> have a job now?
161. 4:28>> a job now, kind of.
162. 4:30>> [laughter]
163. 4:30>> You know, saying you to people. I don't
164. 4:32know if
165. 4:33this is a job. I I wasn't even a problem
166. 4:35kid. I just
167. 4:35>> You're a truth teller, Ronny. You're a
168. 4:37truth kid.
169. 4:37>> Okay, sure. Yeah, thank you thank
170. 4:39[laughter] you for beating me,
171. 4:39Singapore. Thank you.
172. 4:41Thanks for beating the truth into me. Um
173. 4:44but uh I but the the the the tuition
174. 4:47centers, they I benefit from it. I mean,
175. 4:49I don't know. But it made me tougher. I
176. 4:51don't think it made me a better student,
177. 4:53you know. I wasn't a great student, but
178. 4:56>> went to Hogwarts.
179. 4:57>> Oh, you never Okay, then. But But you
180. 4:58interviewed like a thousand people.
181. 5:00>> Yeah, I interviewed a ton of
182. 5:01>> And I remember you said in interviews
183. 5:03that that you went in kind of like
184. 5:06thinking these Hogwarts would be these
185. 5:07terrible places where children are for
186. 5:09And then you you you kind of change your
187. 5:10mind.
188. 5:11>> Oh, totally. Because all these Koreans
189. 5:13said to me, "I hate Hogwarts. They're
190. 5:14horrible. They cost much money." And
191. 5:17then I said, "Well, then did you go to
192. 5:18Hogwarts?" They're like, "Yes." And I
193. 5:20said, "Well, are you going to send your
194. 5:21kids to Hogwarts?" They're like,
195. 5:21"Absolutely."
196. 5:22>> Right.
197. 5:23>> [laughter]
198. 5:24>> I'm confused.
199. 5:26>> No, that makes complete sense to me.
200. 5:27>> Right. So then
201. 5:28>> [laughter]
202. 5:29>> So then I went to go visit all these
203. 5:30Hogwarts and I met the tutors, I met the
204. 5:32parents, I met the kids, I met the I
205. 5:34went to the regular school, the actual
206. 5:36formal school. And you see all these
207. 5:38disconnects between the practice and
208. 5:40theory of learning.
209. 5:42>> Right. And what And I get I Sorry, I
210. 5:44want to go back to what you were saying.
211. 5:45You didn't go to Hogwarts because you
212. 5:46talked about how your mother's a very
213. 5:48well-adjusted woman who actually
214. 5:50>> [laughter]
215. 5:51>> who actually didn't want to force it on
216. 5:52you guys.
217. 5:52>> Yeah, she Well, she was a piano teacher.
218. 5:54Her whole attitude is you can't make
219. 5:56kids study.
220. 5:57>> So, was she wrong? Was she wrong? Cuz
221. 5:59you can make kids study.
222. 6:00>> [laughter]
223. 6:01>> You can beat it into them with a stick.
224. 6:03I know cuz that's what happened to me.
225. 6:06>> Right.
226. 6:07No, this is good. If you want to have a
227. 6:08become a comedian.
228. 6:09>> Yeah. [laughter]
229. 6:10>> This is good.
230. 6:11>> If you want to be a comedian, beat beat
231. 6:13the Chinese into your kids every day.
232. 6:16>> Um
233. 6:17>> Have I said beating kids too much on
234. 6:18this interview? I don't know if I have.
235. 6:20I feel like for 5 minutes I've just been
236. 6:21talking about being beaten, but and and
237. 6:23uh this is another thing is like
238. 6:24Americans again like I I'm going to
239. 6:26overgeneralize here, but Americans are
240. 6:28very weirded out by this cuz I talked to
241. 6:30Trevor Noah about this before about how
242. 6:31we always get beaten as a kid and they
243. 6:34Americans like, "What? You got beaten at
244. 6:35school?" Yeah, man. In Singapore they
245. 6:37would like beat us and and they would
246. 6:39>> It's illegal now in Korea.
247. 6:40>> Oh, is it?
248. 6:41>> It used to be actually.
249. 6:42>> Singapore because this is
250. 6:43>> [laughter]
251. 6:44>> They would like they would hold us I
252. 6:46just I just wanted to interview you to
253. 6:47talk about these beatings. So,
254. 6:48>> [laughter]
255. 6:48>> they would
256. 6:50in Singapore they would call assemblies
257. 6:52>> you okay?
258. 6:53>> [laughter]
259. 6:54>> Okay.
260. 6:55Why? Why? Why? What?
261. 6:57What? It's normal. This is
262. 6:59>> No, you're
263. 6:59>> [laughter]
264. 7:00>> you're perfect. This is how we get it
265. 7:02>> But that but but again so this this so I
266. 7:04really want to get your opinion on
267. 7:07education here cuz that's kind of one of
268. 7:08the big themes of this of this book and
269. 7:10I could tell you really care about
270. 7:11education cuz you're very detailed about
271. 7:13it in the book.
272. 7:14>> [laughter]
273. 7:14>> The whole process of going to college
274. 7:16and hagwons and everything and the
275. 7:17stress that people feel. So, like what
276. 7:19so is is education in America okay?
277. 7:23>> No.
278. 7:24I'm really worried
279. 7:25>> what fixes it?
280. 7:26>> I do know how to fix it.
281. 7:27>> Yeah, I
282. 7:28>> [laughter]
283. 7:28>> I also know how to FIX IT.
284. 7:32THIS THIS GIANT MESS
285. 7:35YEAH, SO WHAT IS WHAT what is
286. 7:37>> Well, I'm really worried about America
287. 7:38because I think our general
288. 7:39>> Why? It's fine.
289. 7:41>> [laughter]
290. 7:42>> What are you worried about? It's fine.
291. 7:43It'll be fine.
292. 7:44>> Okay. Well, if you say so.
293. 7:46>> Yeah, just
294. 7:47>> [laughter]
295. 7:48>> No, the general competence has really
296. 7:50gone down. Our kids really are
297. 7:53not doing so good. And they're really
298. 7:54worried, too. They're really anxious.
299. 7:56>> Okay, but that's every generation.
300. 7:59>> Well, I don't know. And also the average
301. 8:02reading level of the average American is
302. 8:05around 6th or 7th grade.
303. 8:07>> okay. Just watch YouTube.
304. 8:09>> [laughter]
305. 8:10>> It's okay.
306. 8:11>> And I'm really worried about the fact
307. 8:12that they don't know what's true or
308. 8:14verified information.
309. 8:16>> So what
310. 8:16>> civics. Just Just saying.
311. 8:18>> Well, well, well, well, what what do you
312. 8:19what do you think Is hogwans the answer
313. 8:22in America? What [laughter] I mean, what
314. 8:23is
315. 8:23>> No, I don't know if hogwans are
316. 8:24necessarily the answer, but I do think
317. 8:26that we need to start talking about
318. 8:27what's going on with the kids right now.
319. 8:29And also the fact that every single
320. 8:30state in America has different
321. 8:32standards. And all this choice is
322. 8:35sometimes really good, but if the kids
323. 8:38aren't learning the stuff that they need
324. 8:40to know for a very fast-changing world,
325. 8:42then maybe we should focus on it. Maybe
326. 8:44the politicians start talking about it.
327. 8:46>> Yeah, it's not That's never going to
328. 8:47happen.
329. 8:49That's never GOING TO HAPPEN.
330. 8:51>> [applause]
331. 8:52>> YOU GUYS ARE
332. 8:54YOU guys are This is woke This is woke
333. 8:56liberals in the thing. I just so I did
334. 8:58>> [laughter]
335. 8:59>> But like But so you kind of went 180 on
336. 9:01hogwans, right? So now till Is that
337. 9:04something in America we should do? We
338. 9:05should have hogwans with
339. 9:07>> Well, what I did see is in California,
340. 9:09for example, they had different kinds of
341. 9:11hogwans. They had working-class people
342. 9:13hogwans, and they also had really,
343. 9:14really expensive hogwans. And some
344. 9:17hogwans are basically daycare centers
345. 9:18for working parents. So if you're a
346. 9:20cashier in H Mart and you bring your kid
347. 9:22to a hogwan because you've got no place
348. 9:24else to send your kid. It's about only
349. 9:26$400 a month.
350. 9:28And there's actually a van from the
351. 9:29hogwan that picks your kid up from
352. 9:31school and keeps them there until about
353. 9:337:00 at night. That's basically daycare.
354. 9:36And the kids get worksheets and a juice
355. 9:38box and a pretzel. It's not the worst
356. 9:40thing in the world.
357. 9:41>> Yeah, sorry I interrupted you, but yeah,
358. 9:42I was going to say because you've talked
359. 9:43about this before, but you don't mean
360. 9:44that in a bad way.
361. 9:45>> No, I actually think it's a good thing
362. 9:47because the kids are at least safe.
363. 9:48>> Right.
364. 9:49>> If you have a kid alone in an apartment,
365. 9:51it's not safe.
366. 9:52>> Sure. Uh you've also talked about how I
367. 9:54I also want to emphasize like this book
368. 9:56is like I I don't want to put anyone off
369. 9:58people thinking that this is just for
370. 10:00Asian people. This book is great. And
371. 10:02what And one [laughter] way No, no, but
372. 10:03one way you described it in the
373. 10:05interview was that you said that you you
374. 10:06love talking about the Korean diaspora.
375. 10:08That's your focus. But you also said
376. 10:10that everyone is a diaspora now. All of
377. 10:13society. So
378. 10:14>> Because you have all different kinds of
379. 10:15diaspora. You have environmental
380. 10:17diaspora. If your state is too hot and
381. 10:20there's too many fires, maybe you want
382. 10:21to move. That's environmental diaspora.
383. 10:23>> So white people can also be a diaspora.
384. 10:26>> White people are diasporic.
385. 10:28>> [laughter]
386. 10:29>> So this book is also
387. 10:30>> diasporic people were Jewish.
388. 10:31>> Okay.
389. 10:32>> It's in the Bible. [laughter]
390. 10:34>> And then you okay.
391. 10:38Oh, so you want to talk about fiction?
392. 10:41So everyone can be a diaspora. This is
393. 10:44not just for Asian people. One one I'm
394. 10:46trying to sell your book here.
395. 10:48>> [laughter]
396. 10:49>> There is there is another thing that's
397. 10:51in this book another theme in this book
398. 10:52which I find very interesting cuz I also
399. 10:54related to it is the idea of these
400. 10:56immigrant family units. So I don't know
401. 10:59enough about non-Asian family units in
402. 11:02America. So I don't want to over
403. 11:03generalize, but these
404. 11:05white people
405. 11:06>> [laughter]
406. 11:07>> No, no, but so so like what in
407. 11:12This this family in this book you can
408. 11:13read the sacrifice that they do cuz they
409. 11:15have to restart in different countries.
410. 11:17And every time they restart there's this
411. 11:20there's this kind of they organize
412. 11:22themselves very efficiently as a family
413. 11:24unit. So the parents will work and
414. 11:26they'll find whatever job they can to
415. 11:27survive. They'll save that money.
416. 11:29They'll the kids will maybe delay their
417. 11:31own schooling to help they'll try to put
418. 11:33one person through law school and then
419. 11:35that one kid after he gets close his
420. 11:37debt he'll take the money and give it
421. 11:38back to his parents and kids. You know,
422. 11:39just like this kind of very efficient
423. 11:41sacrifice. So I think that like I I'm
424. 11:43pretty sure any parent regardless of
425. 11:45race, I think everyone here everyone
426. 11:46watching we can relate to parents
427. 11:48sacrificing for their kids. Everyone
428. 11:50every good parent does that. Sacrifice
429. 11:52we we all know mothers and fathers who
430. 11:54sacrifice every day for their kids.
431. 11:55Am I wrong in saying that this is
432. 11:57something very uniquely Asian about
433. 12:00efficiently sacrificing
434. 12:03as a extended family unit because I
435. 12:07don't know come at me
436. 12:09come at me. I don't have I don't have
437. 12:10social media anymore so than all of you.
438. 12:12>> [laughter]
439. 12:13>> But I just feel like there's this thing
440. 12:14where uh uh the the
441. 12:17I don't think white people give their
442. 12:18parents money.
443. 12:19I don't think they do. I think it's
444. 12:21weird. As in the if I say this, people
445. 12:23think it's weird. [clears throat] If if
446. 12:24I if people When you do interviews,
447. 12:26people are like, "It's remarkable how
448. 12:27much these parents sacrifice and the
449. 12:28kids give money back to their parents."
450. 12:30And for me, I'm like, "That's not
451. 12:31weird."
452. 12:32It's weird because the person
453. 12:33interviewing you is a white person.
454. 12:34>> [laughter]
455. 12:35>> That's so weird. Why did they give their
456. 12:37parents money?
457. 12:38>> You give your mom money, right?
458. 12:39>> Yeah, I give my mom money, of course I
459. 12:40do.
460. 12:40>> You love your mom, you give your mom
461. 12:41money.
462. 12:42>> Do you know how quiet it is in the
463. 12:43studio right now?
464. 12:44>> That's That's That's how weird
465. 12:47That's how weird it is. It's weird. It's
466. 12:50weird. Come at me, whatever. I don't
467. 12:52care, but I just
468. 12:52>> But you're you're a good son, right?
469. 12:54>> Sure, but I'm just This is a long-winded
470. 12:55question to say that am I correct in
471. 12:57saying that that's a very uniquely Asian
472. 12:58thing or am I off base? I'm happy to be
473. 13:00>> No, I don't think you're off base. Like
474. 13:01there are certain values in Asian
475. 13:03culture which really um stress the
476. 13:05sacrifice and also honoring your
477. 13:07parents. And so filial piety is one of
478. 13:09them.
479. 13:10The thing that I wanted to ask ask in
480. 13:12this book which really troubled me cuz
481. 13:14this is not about a dysfunctional
482. 13:16family. This family's not dysfunctional.
483. 13:18I did that on I did that on purpose.
484. 13:20>> It's actually pretty easy.
485. 13:21>> They're almost idealized, you know what
486. 13:22I mean? But yeah.
487. 13:23>> Cuz I wanted to ask a question why do
488. 13:24terrible things happen to good people?
489. 13:27Right? Cuz we want to know. Like what
490. 13:29And why do great things
491. 13:30>> because he doesn't exist. So what is it?
492. 13:34>> We are going to
493. 13:36>> So why why why why do terrible things
494. 13:39happen to them?
495. 13:40>> So and I wanted to understand how to ter
496. 13:43how do these terrible things happen and
497. 13:45then also how do good people who are
498. 13:48trying to be decent when terrible things
499. 13:49happen, how do they survive? And I
500. 13:51noticed these strategies that are in
501. 13:53Asian culture, they're in other people's
502. 13:55culture, too. And mostly it was
503. 13:57sacrifice and sequencing.
504. 13:59So if you don't have generational wealth
505. 14:01and happens and you don't like it,
506. 14:04the way we're going to get through this
507. 14:05is if you and I, one of us sacrifices
508. 14:07and one of us says, "You know what?
509. 14:08While Ronnie does this thing, I'm going
510. 14:10to hold back."
511. 14:12And when you're done, then I get I get
512. 14:13my turn. And that
513. 14:15and sacrificing was a really good
514. 14:17strategy for people who don't have
515. 14:18generational wealth. And that's what I
516. 14:20wanted to focus on in the book.
517. 14:22>> Yes. And you did. You bring it out in a
518. 14:23very entertaining story. So, you're not
519. 14:25just you know, ranting about it, but
520. 14:27>> [laughter]
521. 14:28>> the best kind of education where you
522. 14:30learn about it
523. 14:31>> I I try not to rant.
524. 14:32>> Yeah. Well, I try not to learn. And
525. 14:34>> [laughter]
526. 14:34>> I
527. 14:35this So, because and I had to learn
528. 14:37because of this. Now, I know way more
529. 14:38about Koreans and Christians than I ever
530. 14:40wanted to know. So,
531. 14:41>> you're you're basically Korean now, but
532. 14:42>> I'm yeah, I'm basically Christian now
533. 14:43cuz I read
534. 14:44>> [laughter]
535. 14:45>> All right.
536. 14:46So, um I got final last I got some
537. 14:50uh you're you're such a smart uh social
538. 14:52commentator. You're I just want to get
539. 14:54your quick thoughts on this difficult
540. 14:56topic.
541. 14:56>> Let's go.
542. 14:56>> Cuz I think you're you're the only
543. 14:57person qualified to um actually answer
544. 15:00this stuff. So, imagine that I am a MAGA
545. 15:03Asian.
546. 15:06And you don't have to imagine that hard,
547. 15:08really.
548. 15:10Uh I'm 50% there.
549. 15:13Uh what would you say to like MAGA
550. 15:15Asians who have sacrificed a lot, worked
551. 15:18hard, did all the right things, were
552. 15:19decent people, trying to put their kids
553. 15:21into Ivy Leagues, and affirmative action
554. 15:25comes in, and they believe it has
555. 15:26screwed up their plans. And so, they
556. 15:28vote against affirmative action. What
557. 15:29would you say to me as a MAGA Asian?
558. 15:31>> I think one of the things
559. 15:32>> all, who did you vote for?
560. 15:34>> [laughter]
561. 15:35>> Democrats up and down the line.
562. 15:37>> Okay.
563. 15:38>> [laughter]
564. 15:41[applause]
565. 15:46>> I think that a MAGA Asian person who
566. 15:49believes that race-based affirmative
567. 15:51action is a bad thing has often been
568. 15:53misinformed.
569. 15:54>> Mhm.
570. 15:55>> I do. I think that race-based
571. 15:56affirmative action is a good thing. Now,
572. 15:58it is actually illegal in America to
573. 16:00consider race. That said, I think when
574. 16:03you start thinking that um this other
575. 16:06group is the enemy, you really
576. 16:08misunderstand the history of civil
577. 16:09rights in America. Asian Americans have
578. 16:12benefited significantly from all the
579. 16:14work, the hard work, and sacrificial
580. 16:16work of African Americans in civil
581. 16:19rights in the United States and then to
582. 16:21actually blame them it's actually
583. 16:23completely preposterous.
584. 16:26>> Um
585. 16:27>> [cheering]
586. 16:29[applause]
587. 16:30>> Um
588. 16:32Okay, so
589. 16:33this book is kind of a critique on Ivy
590. 16:36Leagues college education. So high
591. 16:38education, Ivy Leagues, do we need it?
592. 16:41Do we need it? Do kids need it?
593. 16:42>> I think that it's a nice thing if you
594. 16:44could um understand that for what it is.
595. 16:47It doesn't guarantee a perfect life.
596. 16:49>> Mhm.
597. 16:50>> I think that highly selective schools
598. 16:52can be good, but very often if you only
599. 16:54focus on the brand name of a school, you
600. 16:58are going to be heartbroken.
601. 17:00>> So what the are we supposed to do
602. 17:01then? [laughter and clears throat]
603. 17:03Just raise holistically well-adjusted
604. 17:05kids?
605. 17:08Yeah, but that's not going to work
606. 17:09[laughter] cuz it's too hard. They need
607. 17:12a goal. So I mean, Harvard not worth it.
608. 17:15>> Well
609. 17:17>> You went to Yale, you can say that. What
610. 17:19happened? [laughter]
611. 17:20I don't even know anymore. Is it worth
612. 17:21it? I don't even know. I don't know
613. 17:22what's going on anymore.
614. 17:24>> The thing that I really want to focus on
615. 17:26is that if you get into one of those
616. 17:27schools, great. However, the idea that
617. 17:30most people are going to get in it's
618. 17:32kind of silly because it's a numbers
619. 17:33game. They just don't have the spots.
620. 17:36Like if they have 2,000 kids in a class,
621. 17:38about 500 are really open to the general
622. 17:40public. The other 1,500 already spoken
623. 17:43for.
624. 17:43>> So imagine I'm a young mega Asian.
625. 17:45>> Sure.
626. 17:46>> What would you [laughter] What would you
627. 17:47tell me if I'm like I need to get into
628. 17:49these Ivy League things? What would you
629. 17:50What would you advice would you give?
630. 17:51>> I would say if you want to go for it,
631. 17:53like look at the statistics that you
632. 17:54have and all of your qualifications and
633. 17:56whatever there is. However, basically
634. 17:58it's a crapshoot. And I would actually
635. 18:00say that actually grad school is
636. 18:02probably more important.
637. 18:04>> Okay. So can I
638. 18:06>> [applause]
639. 18:06>> So
640. 18:07So should I go to Harvard or not?
641. 18:09>> [laughter]
642. 18:09>> If you can get in, but
643. 18:11>> If you get in and if you really want to
644. 18:13go, be my guest.
645. 18:14>> Well, I mean one of the one of the
646. 18:15themes in the book is more that they're
647. 18:17they're looking these tutors at are get
648. 18:19so frustrated and they ask the parents
649. 18:21to think of their kids more
650. 18:22holistically.
651. 18:23>> Yeah. Well, the because I think the
652. 18:25tutors are looking at the kids and
653. 18:26saying that the kids are really freaked
654. 18:28out. All the young people right now,
655. 18:31especially between the ages of 12 to 17,
656. 18:34are trying so hard to professionalize
657. 18:35themselves into thinking about trying to
658. 18:38get into a highly selective school. They
659. 18:40don't even understand what it means. All
660. 18:42they know is they have these brand
661. 18:43names. It's kind of like a Rolex watch
662. 18:44or Coca-Cola, but they don't actually
663. 18:46know what these schools mean and what
664. 18:48they want. And they may not even like it
665. 18:50once they get there,
666. 18:51>> Because they weren't beaten enough in
667. 18:53these kids.
668. 18:54>> [laughter]
669. 18:55>> Mostly that, yeah.
670. 18:56>> Okay.
671. 18:58Okay. This last last last question for
672. 19:00you. Uh
673. 19:01how do you Oh man, there's so much to
674. 19:02talk about. This book is so interesting.
675. 19:03I got last two. Can I do two? Is that
676. 19:05okay? You got time for two? So, one of
677. 19:07the themes of this book is the IMF
678. 19:08financial crisis. I call it the global
679. 19:10financial crisis. Americans call it what
680. 19:12happened. I don't know.
681. 19:14>> [laughter]
682. 19:15>> By the way, that's what I also love
683. 19:16about this book. You put into words all
684. 19:17these things which I have given up
685. 19:19trying to explain to non-Americans.
686. 19:21>> [laughter]
687. 19:21>> You've managed to put it into this
688. 19:23story. So, thank you so much for doing
689. 19:24that. This IMF, which I lived through,
690. 19:26the global financial crisis. So, there's
691. 19:27been two
692. 19:29This book covers two financial crises,
693. 19:30'97, 2008. Um
694. 19:33what lessons for these kids do you have
695. 19:36for the next one that hopefully does not
696. 19:38happen, but
697. 19:39>> [laughter]
698. 19:41>> Well, the the first line of the book is
699. 19:42the rules of engagement have changed
700. 19:44already.
701. 19:45What I'm really saying is that the
702. 19:47reason why all of us feel like
703. 19:48right now and we're really worried is
704. 19:50because the rules of engagement for
705. 19:51every single field has changed, whether
706. 19:54it's in how to get a job,
707. 19:56how to do your job, how to find a
708. 19:58partner. All those rules have changed.
709. 20:00So, what are we going to do if those
710. 20:02rules of engagement have changed
711. 20:03already? I say we're going to have to
712. 20:04figure out how to be a better problem
713. 20:06solver and commit to relationships.
714. 20:10That sounds a little strange, but when I
715. 20:12did my interviews, the people who
716. 20:13survived these
717. 20:15incredibly huge economic shocks, who
718. 20:17didn't have a whole lot of money to ride
719. 20:19out the storms, they were able to do it
720. 20:21only when they had deeply committed
721. 20:23relationships and people who stayed with
722. 20:25you for the whole ride. And
723. 20:28in those relationships people were
724. 20:30willing to sacrifice and sequence their
725. 20:32dreams.
726. 20:32>> Okay, this all sounds suspiciously
727. 20:34Christian. So, I'm just going to skip
728. 20:35[laughter] on I'm just going to
729. 20:37skip on to the last last question.
730. 20:39How do you How do you reconcile America
731. 20:43being the best place for these people to
732. 20:45come to
733. 20:47make a living and also being what it is
734. 20:48right now?
735. 20:49>> [laughter]
736. 20:51>> You know, um have you heard that
737. 20:53expression America is a place even where
738. 20:55enemies want to live?
739. 20:58>> No, but that's
740. 20:59completely correct.
741. 21:00>> It's completely correct because there is
742. 21:02possibility in this country. I know that
743. 21:04things are really tough right now. At
744. 21:06least it seems that way for some people.
745. 21:09But, it is possible here to have many
746. 21:12different acts. In in other countries,
747. 21:15it's more difficult to pivot your
748. 21:17career, your relationships and here it
749. 21:20is possible.
750. 21:22>> Woo!
751. 21:23>> Yeah.
752. 21:24>> [cheering and applause]
753. 21:24>> Min Jin, Min Jin, thanks so much for
754. 21:25being on the show. Your book is great.
755. 21:27Thank you for doing what you do. Thanks
756. 21:28for writing [cheering] it. Thanks for
757. 21:29speaking to us.
758. 21:31America for Hardcore is available now.
759. 21:32Lee Min Jin.