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Michael Knowles vs 25 LGBTQ+ Activists | Surrounded — Transcript

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0:00in terms of reality I'm gay married
0:03right like what is the point of this
0:06conversation because because you're
0:07you're not really married I'm sorry I'm
0:09going to outright call you a fascist and
0:12say what you're saying hate speech I
0:14have XX chromosomes Michael do you have
0:16XX chromosomes yeah would you call me
0:18she her now I don't I I'll uh
0:21I'll looks I'll I'll defer it to you
0:25hello I'm Michael nolles I'm a
0:27conservative podcast host at the daily
0:28wire I'm an author and I'm a cigar
0:30salesman of Mayflower cigars and today I
0:34am surrounded by 20 lgbtq plus
0:41activists my first claim is that there
0:44is no such thing as same-sex
0:53[Music]
0:58marriage wow
1:00nice to meet you how are you sir nice to
1:02see you doing well so your claim what's
1:04the underlying philosophy of your claim
1:08well uh I I guess the underlying
1:10historical part of my claim is that
1:12everyone for all of history everywhere
1:14until and I'm being generous 2001 agreed
1:18with my view that there's no such thing
1:19as same-sex marriage so it seems to me
1:22that marriage intrinsically requires
1:24sexual difference and furthermore I
1:26think that any claim that marriage could
1:28be redefined to include same-sex
1:29marriage
1:30would render the term marriage
1:32incomprehensible would you say that this
1:34is based off of natural law and how
1:36Thomas aquinus defines natural law
1:38there's a good natural law argument for
1:40it but I think it's based on more than
1:42that it's more than that based on
1:43anthropology but then what do you say
1:44that marriage is a set of legal rights
1:46or is it a social role I think marriage
1:49is an institution I think it's the
1:50fundamental political institution I I
1:52think uh getting back to classical
1:54philosophy that man is fundamentally a
1:57social animal so you know I think at the
2:00Rock of politics is the unit of the
2:02family and you know of course intrinsic
2:05to the family is marriage for all of
2:07those especially with natural law is
2:08just an assertion without evidence to
2:10back that claim in that we see marriage
2:13over time in various cultures has been
2:15different things in in which cultures
2:17would you say you see same-sex marriage
2:19I did not say same-sex marriage
2:21particularly but the role of it when it
2:22comes to family when it comes to the
2:24conditions because we do also say that
2:26if somebody is lawfully married
2:27especially in the eyes of the church
2:28they cannot be divorce and then married
2:31again well I I oppose divorce and
2:33remarriage but I'm making a more modest
2:35claim than that I'm just saying that at
2:37its core marriage necessarily involves
2:40two different Sexes but how would you
2:43how would you prove that because all of
2:44natural law is just this assertion I can
2:46just as easily say the opposite in that
2:48marriage a set of leg you keep bringing
2:49up natural law I'm actually speaking
2:51even more basically I love natural law
2:53but I'm speaking even more basically
2:54than that it seems to me that the only
2:56way that marriage could have a meaning
2:58is if it involves different sex but once
3:00again you're defining that meaning but
3:02marriage essentially is a set of Rights
3:04conferred from two spouses when it comes
3:06to inheritance when it comes to the
3:08rights of the children when it comes to
3:10a number of about 1100 federal and state
3:12rights okay then what you're getting at
3:13is is interesting it might help us move
3:15forward how how would you define
3:16marriage I would say marriage is a is a
3:19legal contract between individuals when
3:21it comes to a set of U property laws
3:23when it comes to family law when it
3:24comes to children and many other rights
3:26that are conferred and we do see that
3:28those rights have been conferred to
3:29members of the same sex and so say that
3:31samesex marriage does not exist is not
3:34true because see it well you say that
3:36marriage uh entails rights pertaining to
3:38Children Well two men cannot create a
3:40child nether CPL and neither can there
3:44are a number of couples that cannot have
3:46children sure so in infertility
3:48sometimes occurs and that's that's
3:49unfort and so does gay marriage well no
3:52gay marriage cannot occur I guess but
3:54you're asserting that without proof we
3:55see that it does happen in that word
3:58that we mean marriage
4:00you could say that there's such a thing
4:01as a square ball you could say that but
4:04a square ball doesn't would you agree
4:06that there people have been lawfully
4:08wedded in the eyes of the government in
4:11those two parties are members of the
4:12same sex no I'm saying that isn't
4:14possible so laws can assert alling that
4:16without Pro like the law could say that
4:18a black person isn't a human being but
4:20that wouldn't be true that wouldn't make
4:22it true once again when we get into this
4:23oristian view of the world that's an
4:25assertion would you agree you're
4:26bringing up aist I don't know I'm not
4:27bringing up aist I like Thomas aquinus
4:31in the in the traditional view of the
4:32magest of the Catholic Church are a view
4:34that you use to base your worldview off
4:36of I am Catholic but but marriage
4:38actually even predates the church so so
4:41I guess my view your your definition of
4:43marriage seems to get a little muddled
4:45you say it's a legal arrangement of
4:47family but to say that marriage is a
4:48legal Arrangement pertaining to family
4:49is circular of course it's a legal
4:51Arrangement pertaining to saying AR when
4:53you when you say it's an arrangement
4:54that pertains to Children you well of
4:56okay now we're getting closer because
4:57only a man and a woman can produce a
4:59child in principle now of course some
5:01couples are infertile but just cuz you
5:02know uh a a human being uh let's say
5:05loses an arm doesn't mean that human
5:07beings only have one arm or might have
5:10arm component and that necessary
5:13component doesn't come from anywh no no
5:15well I'll give you my definition of
5:16marriage absolutely I think marriage is
5:18a lifelong Union between a man and a
5:20woman ordered toward the procreation and
5:23education of children and as a secondary
5:25matter for the mutual support of the
5:26spouses well once again when we say
5:28ordered towards is to look at the world
5:31at the world with these preconceived
5:32notions about things I'm not
5:33preconceived anything I'm just uh I'm
5:35just observing nature as it is no I'm
5:38just observing nature and I'm saying
5:39that that's what marriage is just we
5:41observing nature we see that there are
5:44same-sex couples so if we go we are
5:45observing no no I'm not saying there
5:46can't be samesex couples I'm just saying
5:48there can't be samesex marriage are
5:49there same-sex individuals that have
5:51entered into a legal contract that the
5:54state recognizes as a marriage some
5:56sometimes the the state gets things
5:57wrong as as I am arguing is that yes is
6:00that a yes that there are couples of the
6:02same sex that have been wetted in the
6:03eyes of the state since 2015 the US
6:06government pretends that that uh two men
6:09can be married to each other but you're
6:10basing off of that nothing you're basing
6:12that off of nothing no I'm basing it off
6:13of the oel decision from the Supreme
6:15Court they're pretending they're acting
6:16as if two men can marry according to you
6:19no according to the Supreme Court in the
6:20O berfel decision pretend as if things
6:23exist outside of the institutions that
6:25we make I'm just saying the word has a
6:27meaning and I gave you a very clear
6:28definition of what think it means and
6:30what statistically everyone for all of
6:32human history everywhere has thought it
6:33means and you've given me this kind of
6:34jumbled description that keeps
6:36contradicting itself and and that's my
6:37whole point is I think it is not
6:39possible to define marriage I have
6:41nothing against who according to who
6:44prove me wrong prove you wrong once
6:46again are there couples in the US that
6:48have entered into a covenant that
6:49Society views as marriage as I well some
6:51people in society view it as marriage
6:53but many do not but you aren't the ones
6:55conferring rights to society right but
6:57but I don't think that uh the government
7:00dictates reality I think that if the
7:02government came out and passed a law and
7:03said that human beings are people with
7:05three heads and 17 arms and octopus
7:08tentacles and so we decree the US
7:10government that wouldn't make it true
7:12what who defines marriage pause you've
7:15been voted out by the majority nice a
7:17pleasure to meet you good
7:24job close hey good to meet you Mindy
7:28nice to meet you yeah yeah oh my name is
7:30Mason but to meet you yeah I'm Michael
7:33oh gotcha got wait do you have a birth
7:34certificate I uh not on me but I do have
7:36one okay well I I can't confirm that
7:38your name is Michael until I see that
7:39birth certificate just as a defender of
7:41objective truth but we can go more into
7:43the prom speaking about marriage you
7:44could actually if you have faculty's of
7:46reason and you say well this is the sort
7:47of fellow who presents himself you know
7:49in a credible way and you've probably
7:51checked with the producers here they've
7:52probably verified that I am who I am so
7:54a reasonable person would be able to
7:56that is is more performative
7:58characteristics is that what you're
7:59implying is that I'm able with my
8:00faculty of reason to assume that I'm
8:02speaking with a man in front of me and
8:04therefore I can just politely go with
8:05the name that you're presenting to me
8:07almost as an act of respect no I just
8:09think that I wouldn't have gotten in
8:10this building if I weren't really who I
8:12say I am so that that would be my
8:14deduction bring back to the prompt going
8:15back to specifically same-sex marriage
8:18um are you you said you argued from an
8:20anthrop anthropology that's like your
8:22basis of yeah men and women are
8:23different and marriage involves one of
8:25each yeah which specific culture are you
8:27referring to because we have so many
8:28cultures that have communal
8:30relationships in which people are raised
8:31when you said in the act of procreation
8:34have you ever heard of it takes a
8:35village raised kids that's not something
8:36that's just a say happens literally in
8:39specific cult no no but when I say
8:40procreation that's the act of creating
8:42the child and usually there aren't three
8:44or four people involved in that it's
8:46usually two people yeah but even those
8:48people that do create the child often
8:50times were referred to as different
8:51genders depending on the culture that it
8:52is that you're observing which cultures
8:54are which cultures are you referring to
8:55uh we could talk about the Mayans we
8:57could talk about certain Amazonian
8:58cultures I recognize that they're not
9:00Western culture so you might not
9:01prioritize them but that doesn't mean
9:03that they don't exist well they no
9:05longer exist the May oh right because of
9:06colonialism I'm glad that you're just
9:08what was their view of gender What
9:10specifically you that's specifically a
9:12social characteristic that we're all
9:14performing in right now I mean you can't
9:16say I'm I'm I'm not asking your opinion
9:19I'm asking what you brought up the May
9:20what the that's just something that is
9:23what the Mayans think you brought it up
9:24you seem so confident about this what
9:26did the Mayans think about marriage and
9:27gender what what do you we can talk
9:29about difference in in the way that they
9:31are recognized can we I don't know that
9:33you know the difference you said there
9:34was a difference but you haven't
9:35explained how there was a difference and
9:37I think this is what people do is this
9:38prompt specifically on the Mayan
9:40anthropology okay I'm trying to drill
9:42down just to when you say there are
9:44different understandings of marriage
9:45throughout history in time and space I
9:47say okay maybe that's possible how tell
9:50me point to the examples and you said
9:51well the Mayans and I said okay well
9:53what did the Mayans think about marriage
9:54and you don't have an answer and none of
9:56these people have answers because
9:57everyone has do you have an answer
9:59people can look up right now if you're
10:01right near a Google yeah exactly
10:03Michael's trying to hone me down on
10:04trivia night right now we're trying to
10:07talk about specifically our examples I'm
10:09asking you I'm asking you to explain the
10:10point that you brought up and so what
10:12people usually do is they say well look
10:14I'm sure that there were all different
10:15types of marriage throughout history all
10:16over the world and what I'm telling you
10:18is there actually hasn't been so you're
10:20telling me that a Catholic priest are
10:21the people who created like a a certain
10:24ceremony within the M culture is that
10:26what you're telling me I'm not telling
10:27you that I'm telling you that for I'm
10:28tell if you want to listen I'm happy to
10:30tell you exactly I'm listening ears are
10:32open Michael okay I'm sorry Mindy for
10:34all of for all of history for all of
10:36history everywhere in the world until
10:38roughly 2001 in the Netherlands every
10:42single culture every poity has believed
10:44that marriage is the union of a man and
10:46a woman ordered toward the procreation
10:47of children that's what it is always
10:49been you're saying that's the specific
10:50objective of what marriage is for
10:52thousands of years marriage has been
10:53used for property transfer that's what
10:55marriage marriage is also it's also used
10:57for the mutual support of the spouses
10:58but it is in principle ordered toward
11:00the procreation of children that's what
11:02distinguishes it from other kinds of
11:03relationships would you say that there's
11:04an aspect where love is importance
11:06specifically within this current culture
11:08would you say that you love your wife I
11:09do but now okay well that always hasn't
11:11been the case specifically when it comes
11:12to things like PL people today who don't
11:14love their wives that's absolutely true
11:16I suppose the difference as I just
11:17mentioned that love has not always been
11:19something that's recognizing even in
11:20some couples now we love people in
11:22relationships that aren't marital and in
11:23relationships that are not marital we
11:25sometimes don't love our spouses we
11:26sometimes don't love people who are not
11:27our SP I think the point of what this
11:28conversation is we're seeing different
11:30motivations in which people actually get
11:33married to be specifically for the
11:35procreation it doesn't have to be
11:36specifically for property transfer and
11:38in some instances it can just be the
11:39union of people who care about each
11:41other the fixation and the obsession of
11:44samex couples care about just what's so
11:46weird specifically when conservatives
11:47claim to be big strong men you know
11:49cigar salesmen that are out there
11:51presenting this certain image it's weird
11:52how you're focusing more on gay people
11:54than often times gay people focus on gay
11:56people I'm not focusing on anything I'm
11:57not the one who changed the definition
11:58of marriage here making the claim hey
12:00all of these marriages that I'm seeing
12:02are not legitimate say my feelings no no
12:05no because that's just not what marriage
12:06is like if if you told me that there was
12:08such a thing as a square a square ball
12:10yeah the ball that we're referring to is
12:12a yellow ball and a green ball it
12:13doesn't mean that the ball is square and
12:15now where I think we're confusing our
12:16analogies the reason one can't have a
12:18square ball is not because one has an
12:20animus against Square balls it's because
12:23it's in the nature of spheres and
12:25squares that one cannot simultaneously
12:27be both the fear isn't seen a gay and
12:29saying oh boo oh my God I got scared the
12:31fear is oh my God my rights are being
12:33taken away or the institution of
12:34marriage is degraded specifically
12:36because we're expanding it to people who
12:37also love each other it's it's because
12:39even in principle Two Fellas can't make
12:41a baby that's the difference there as we
12:43mentioned there are people that are
12:44infertile that you wouldn't say their
12:45marriage is any less legitimate
12:47specifically they in principle their
12:49marriage is inclined toward the
12:51procreation of children that's not true
12:53because we just talked about there were
12:54certain instances where marriage is used
12:56as a property transfer it's not for
12:58procreation but again
13:01you any of his marriages were
13:03illegitimate he I I would because I'm a
13:07Catholic but that's a separate issue go
13:09this is the
13:11issue when I love my buddy right I love
13:14my anchor trud I love my cousins but I'm
13:18not married to them I have lived with
13:20roommates I wasn't married to them uh
13:22many people have slept with people who
13:24are not their spouses that doesn't mean
13:26they're married to them marriage has to
13:28have a definition that is different from
13:30all of these other kinds of
13:30relationships and the only one that
13:33anyone throughout all of history until
13:34roughly 2001 in the Netherlands has ever
13:36come up with is that it's a union of a
13:38man and a woman inclined toward the
13:39procreation of children and also it so
13:41happens that children are raised in a
13:43much better way from a man and a woman
13:45specific motivation that you continue to
13:46reiterate and parot that is just not
13:48true if you look at various
13:50examples good to meet youy good to good
13:53to meet you what was his name I catch
13:56you
14:00that was easy you got it how's it going
14:03good nice to meet you nice to meet you
14:05okay so I am not in this politics world
14:10to be honest all I know about you is
14:11your name is Michael and don't marry
14:13your cousins I don't I avoid that so I
14:16was taking some notes Here on my handy
14:18daddy notebook okay um you're making a
14:20lot of appeals to things you know appeal
14:22to Nature appeal to the dictionary
14:24appeal to the Past philosophy yeah
14:27anthropology I feel like what you're
14:28ultimately appealing to is Michael's
14:31idea of marriage and that's fine right
14:34but we I'm I'm appealing to everyone
14:37else's idea of marriage for all of
14:38history well so here's the thing haven't
14:41there before I don't get sidetracked
14:42here but briefly to respond to that
14:44weren't there other ideas in the past
14:46that were bad well there are plenty of
14:48ideas in the past that have been bad and
14:49discarded there are very few ideas that
14:52have existed everywhere for all of
14:53history and continue to exist today
14:55albeit in a slightly different form that
14:57that are bad right but but like why why
15:00am I supposed to care that people have
15:02believed something for a long time well
15:05because uh often uh things that have
15:07endured forever everywhere do so because
15:09they work or they have some tethering to
15:11reality but in this case in terms of
15:14reality I'm grad to mentioned the word
15:16reality because in terms of reality I'm
15:19gay married woo right
15:22like we live we live in a in a society
15:26where if you look at polling data
15:28Society seem seems to be okay with gay
15:31marriage and so if you personally don't
15:33want to get gay married you don't have
15:35to but shouldn't we I mean I'm think
15:37like what's the what is the point of
15:39this conversation because because you're
15:40you're not really married you you have a
15:42relationship with a man you're not
15:44really Mar I understand that you think
15:46that and that's fine but we should
15:48structure because what's the point of
15:50this conversation right like I was kind
15:51of falling asleep through all like the
15:53Plato and Socrates and I didn't bring it
15:55up that was the other guy wasn't I know
15:57and we we'll agree on that okay the
15:59agreement for the thumbnail all right um
16:02but like the point of this conversation
16:05I can make it very for you that we're
16:07deciding how we should conduct ourselves
16:09right yes I can make it very practical
16:10for you children do very poorly when
16:13they are raised by two men were by two
16:15women relative my understanding of the
16:17literature on this is that that's not
16:19true what literature are you referring
16:21to unfortunately I was not able to bring
16:23notes here if you look it up afterward I
16:24don't have notes either but I'll tell
16:25you you can you can reach out to me
16:27after I can email we're getting off of
16:29my point here and I don't like it so I'm
16:31going to keep talking now you want it to
16:33be PR you want to avoid we're just going
16:36to talk over each other no understand
16:37anything you talk so much more than me
16:39you're the you're the hero let me talk
16:41come on Michael let me talk so um if you
16:43want to avoid the point I'm making I
16:45which probably is good for your side of
16:46the argument okay if it's good for me
16:48I'm going to do it so um we need the
16:52point of this conversation is we're
16:53deciding ultimately like what should our
16:56laws be right we and if we live in a
16:59plutocratic society where a lot of
17:02people have a l be plutocratic you mean
17:04pluralistic oh PL pluralistic thank you
17:07see I'm not I'm not I'm not a media guy
17:09I'm just a guy I'm just a guy why am I
17:11here he's a professional pluralistic
17:14thank you Michael so we live in a
17:15pluralistic society and we should have
17:19our laws allow people to live the way
17:23they want in so far as we're not
17:24impeding on other people's Liberties or
17:26harming others right to my understanding
17:28that's so what about the right of a kid
17:30to have his natural mother and father
17:31because when the rubber meets the road
17:33in gay marriage it's not just two people
17:35living together you could always do that
17:36it's not two people doing those things
17:37you guys do that you could always do
17:39that it's the ability to adopt children
17:41and in some cases acquire children by
17:43going to the baby store and purchasing
17:45the eggs of one woman renting the womb
17:46of of another woman and raising children
17:48depriving them intentionally of their
17:50natural mothers and that's very wrong
17:52and that does infring on the rights of
17:53kids I understand that you believe that
17:56and all the scientific literature by the
17:57way backs that up not true it is true
18:00fact check that please let's let them
18:02fact check that on the
18:04video fact check it for you right now
18:06the study that you're referring to is
18:07the Michael Rosenfeld study out of
18:09Stanford in 2010 and it said that that
18:11kids raised in gay households did just
18:13as well in school other study and that
18:15no it was a major study but but it was
18:17it was wrong it had a major
18:18methodological error and it's been
18:20corrected by multiple other St I love to
18:22engage with you on that in a sec yes in
18:24a
18:24sec my point is the majority of people
18:28in Society are okay with these things
18:30and society's laws should reflect what
18:33the majority of people are okay with the
18:35majority of people were okay with
18:36slavery for much of the 19th century so
18:38should society's laws just reflect that
18:40wait so now things that happen in the
18:41past are bad some things that happened
18:43in the past are bad some are good but
18:45some things are good and some things
18:47that are happening now are very bad too
18:48and contr to reason the problem is that
18:52slavery is bad gay marriage gay adoption
18:55things like that are not bad they are
18:56bad and and and gay marriage is
18:58non-existent and gay adoption is bad
19:00then how am I gay married if it doesn't
19:02exist you're not I'm having an
19:05existential crisis after this yeah
19:08you're not people you guys see me can
19:10you guys see me you you ex you exist but
19:13but gay marriage does not exist okay and
19:16gay adoption is very bad for the kids
19:18I'm not and I'm not even knocking the
19:19guys who want to do it I understand
19:20there's a natural longing to have kids
19:22and homosexuals in in a samesex union
19:24can't create kids which is part of the
19:26reason why it's not marriage but it's
19:27it's still bad for the the kids okay
19:29well I thank you for correcting me on
19:31the word
19:32plutocratic I otherwise completely
19:35disagree with everything you said all
19:36right well and I think most people do
19:38too and that's why the laws don't
19:40reflect your opinions on this most
19:42people around the world agree with what
19:43I said all right guys that's it for this
19:46claim please return your seat thank you
19:50thanks my next claim is that
19:53transgenderism should be eradicated from
19:56public life entirely
20:04[Applause]
20:09hi Blossom she her hers Powerhouse
20:12Blossom Powerhouse lovely to meet you
20:15yes go ahead I want to know your
20:19ideology around transgenderism something
20:21that doesn't exist it just sounds more
20:22like conservative propaganda so I kind
20:24of want to know a little bit more about
20:26what you're trying to communicate okay I
20:28think for all of history everywhere uh
20:31people have understood the human person
20:33to have something to do with his body so
20:36like your body has something to do with
20:37who you are now there is an alternative
20:40view which is called gnosticism it's a
20:42view that our bodies don't really have
20:44anything to do with who we are that the
20:45body is maybe even evil and that our
20:47true selves have no connection to our
20:49bodies and I see in the transgender
20:51ideology a kind of nosism that says that
20:54you could look like a man you could have
20:55a man's genetics you could have a man's
20:57uh genitals you could have a man's
20:59everything but if you feel on some deep
21:01level that you're really a woman then
21:03then you are really a woman and I don't
21:05think that's true and and I think that
21:07the social effects of that are really
21:08bad because it leads to the uh depriving
21:12women of their legitimate rights in some
21:14cases it leads to rapes notably in the
21:16last few years and uh it also leads to
21:19women losing their Sports competitions
21:21and their scholarships and it's just
21:23disordered and false and it also leads
21:26to more people adopting this identity
21:28which leads to very high rates of
21:29anxiety depression and suicide so it's
21:31bad for everyone and it's not grounded
21:33in reality o I don't even think you
21:35understand what you say
21:36sometimes I don't think you even
21:39understand what you say because when we
21:40talk about these rape cases of women in
21:42the restroom they're coming from sis men
21:44like you so let's be very clear not
21:47true2 ex me do not interrupt a black I'm
21:50just trying to correct
21:51inter I would never interrup a black
21:53woman thank you here's the thing about
21:56me as a black Trans woman I am not a
21:58threat to CIS women and I think it is
22:00harmful that you are going around here
22:01spewing that rhetoric weaponizing this
22:04reic against trans people transgenderism
22:06does not exist we as trans people exist
22:09we are 1% of the population and there is
22:11a lot of power in the trans identity
22:13because you are sitting here spewing
22:15something to me that doesn't really
22:17anything I'm just stating facts I have
22:19live experience you don't and you never
22:21will but I do have a question experience
22:23what if one of your what if one of your
22:25kids came out his trans how would you
22:26react God forid I mean I would I would
22:28obvious ly love my children and I would
22:30try to do what's best for my children
22:32and the best thing that I could do to be
22:33respectful and also to uh be conducive
22:36to their flourishing is to tell them the
22:37truth which is that they're not really
22:38girls oh come on I can't even imagine
22:42your relationship with your children no
22:43shade right I just cannot even imagine
22:47that but here's the reality we exist
22:49again people like you do not have the
22:52intellectual capacity to hold
22:53conversations like this because in a
22:55minute you're going to reduce this down
22:56to genitalia and then we're going to
22:58have to sh somewhere else because
22:59obviously like you that's where they go
23:01right in a minute what I'm going to do
23:02is correct something you said when you
23:04said that the the rapes that have
23:06occurred in these bathrooms are cismen
23:08white sis man I should say actually that
23:10isn't true Lowden County 2021 the the
23:12big case that actually ended up flipping
23:14the state was because there was a a boy
23:16who wore a skirt went into the girl's
23:18bathroom and raped a girl in a
23:19particularly hideous way and you know
23:21what Happ hold on don't cut me
23:22off sis boy it was not a trans woman all
23:26y'all do is go back to Sis boys you're
23:29always talking about this Bo I don't
23:30understand the Fascinations with trans
23:32bodies and what's happening in the
23:34bathroom it is mostly happening I think
23:35Fuster because you don't want me to tell
23:37you what happened inro who me I think
23:39you're filibuster I think that you
23:42you're distracting from the fact that a
23:43boy wearing a skirt in a girl's bathroom
23:45boy but not a trans woman well there's
23:47no such thing as a trans woman oh it is
23:49you're looking at one right now I'm
23:50looking at looking at me I'm looking at
23:53live experience live experience you are
23:56looking at a trans woman who has been
23:58transitioning for over 20 years who has
24:00lived the experience you're looking
24:02you're talking to an activist here to a
24:06somebody that's extremely oh I am real
24:08I'm not really talking to anyone you
24:09keep talking over in your head I'm not
24:11but I am in reality I'm here in front of
24:13you right now talking to you you're
24:15confused about your ID know you are
24:17confused at the fact that you don't
24:19really have any talking points right now
24:20because I then why AR then why aren't
24:22you letting me speak you really don't if
24:24I have nothing to say why aren't you
24:25letting put me on your show how about
24:27how about that become your show oh yeah
24:30I should have a show I should have a
24:31show in 2018 there were two rapes in
24:34bathrooms and one in Wisconsin one in
24:36Georgia also because of the transgender
24:38identity say it if you're if you're
24:41going to describe a a boy who wears a
24:43skirt and goes into a girl's bathroom as
24:45a CIS man no I I did no you are this is
24:48the example that you run to past that
24:51you have nothing I've just giv you three
24:53examples I've giving you three examples
24:54in recent years nothing you don't you've
24:56been struggling this entire time
24:58yeah you have I think the trans lady
25:01doth protest too much me thinks by
25:05goodbye perhaps I'll see you on my show
25:07yes invite me get my em tell your tell
25:10your people to get my email address how
25:11about that good
25:12[Music]
25:13[Applause]
25:23job hello hello hello
25:25hello okay so if we're going to think
25:28about women getting rapes in bathrooms
25:30right it's a small percentage of trans
25:33people that are doing it I'm not denying
25:34that that's happening because it is a
25:36reality and it's an awful thing for
25:38women to have to go through yeah but
25:40then what are we doing about the men
25:41that are the 93% of sexual violence
25:43towards women well hopefully arresting
25:45them and putting them in prison and what
25:47are you doing before that why are men
25:49the highest percentage for this if it's
25:51such a bad thing for trans women to use
25:53the bathroom when a very very very small
25:56amount of women are being raped by trans
25:59women why are we not having any sort of
26:02things before for I think we try to
26:05enforce our laws and protect people from
26:07rape and so we apparently not very well
26:09no I think relatively well we have a
26:10relatively low rate of these kinds of
26:12violent crimes compared to other places
26:13in the world but but in one area we're
26:15talking about men forcing themselves
26:17into women's bathrooms this is one area
26:20where uh we don't need to allow them to
26:22do that it's a needless risk it's based
26:24on a false view of reality and and
26:26claims of Rights so-called rights from
26:28confused men that infringe on the
26:30legitimate rights of women not just in
26:32bathrooms but also in sports
26:34competitions also in scholarships also
26:37in in just about anywhere else in
26:40society so I I think that we have the
26:42right to insist upon some kind of
26:43reality because I think not only will
26:45that be better for women not only will
26:47that be better for society broadly but
26:49that especially will be better for the
26:51individuals who are confused about their
26:52gender identity and how are you going to
26:55prevent trans women from using the
26:56female bathroom how are you going to to
26:58tell what's the te uh there are some
27:01giveaways contrary to what the trans
27:05activists men who identify as women you
27:08you can usually tell and what are they
27:12you can say you can say you can tell all
27:14you want yeah you know broad shoulders
27:16Adam's apple and you know like the face
27:19and yeah right
27:22right you can tell you can usually tell
27:25usually not all the time but usually
27:26okay okay so if you can only usually
27:28tell what are you going to do to prevent
27:29it well look look a man who doesn't even
27:31identify strengths a man who's just a
27:33nefarious fell could sneak into a
27:34woman's bathroom so we have to 93%
27:37because what are you doing about men we
27:38should enforce the law against people
27:40who break it and what are you doing
27:42before that like why is it a continuous
27:44pattern for men we teach people in in
27:46class you're not teaching them very well
27:48apparently I mean we have Republican
27:49parties who are literally putting a
27:52president who is a felon who has
27:54sexually assaulted people what does that
27:56say to men yeah I no one really that I
27:59no one really buys that no one seriously
28:01thinks that Donald Trump is a rapist I
28:03know we pretend because the Democrats
28:05were trying to
28:08prosecute is such a bad thing why don't
28:10you believe women when they say it's
28:11happening because you're not believing
28:12Trump when he says that he didn't do it
28:15you're you know whatever but you're not
28:16believing the woman the claim you're
28:18making about Trump obviously was not
28:20criminally prosecuted it comes from
28:21about 30 years ago from a woman who
28:23previously said that she likes rape and
28:24finds it you know scintillating and I
28:26know it's it's terrible so
28:29has so that woman did the Trump's
28:31accuser literally said that to Anderson
28:33Cooper on CNN but you know sure I'm sure
28:36fetish with like consenting adults might
28:38be different but no woman knowingly goes
28:41out into this world and says I love to
28:42be raped I want to be the example you
28:44brought up which is the the accuser of
28:46Donald Trump but anyway no one really
28:47believes Trump's a rapist and so your
28:49question is why don't
28:50we okay I guess maybe some people in
28:52this room uh you ask why don't we just
28:55believe all women all the time well I I
28:58I do think we should give a lot of
28:59difference to people who are accusing
29:00others of crimes and so you know we have
29:02courts of law to adjudicate these claims
29:04uh so I don't know I don't think women
29:06are incapable of lying but I do think
29:08that we should protect their legitimate
29:09political right women do lie though it's
29:10a very very very small percentage my
29:13blank period so what again are you doing
29:16like you care to Claim about women so
29:18much because trans people in the
29:19bathroom is so scary my claim my claim
29:22here in other are my actual claim here
29:24is that transgenderism is false and we
29:26should eradicate it from public life cuz
29:27it's harmful to everyone okay that's my
29:30that's my actual if you want to talk the
29:32that then what does transgenderism in
29:34public look like to you it's uh allowing
29:37men to be treated for the purposes of
29:39the law as women it's men taking 900 uh
29:42Sports trophies from women in recent
29:43years and they didn't take 900 they took
29:46900 there's a report just came out from
29:47the United Nations actually 890 uh
29:50trophies and medals across 600 women who
29:53were competing competitors across 29
29:55different sports in 400 competitions
29:57that came out like yesterday and they
29:59deserved them it didn't happen and they
30:02deserve them okay that is the logic I
30:03hear from the protr crowd yeah thank you
30:05they do deserve them because I'm sure
30:07they followed the specifications for the
30:08sport and that's why they were there in
30:10the first
30:11place
30:14[Applause]
30:16[Music]
30:16[Applause]
30:20Ved hello
30:23hello so I think I want to start off by
30:26asking you what your solution is to like
30:29the word eradicating like what what do
30:31you mean by that well the the word
30:33literally means to pull up by the root
30:35so not just to have some half measure
30:37where you say you know okay we're only
30:38going to trans kids after the age of
30:40nine but not under the age of nine okay
30:42we're only going to let men who
30:43identifies as women go into this
30:44bathroom but not that sports team or
30:46what I don't think a half measure makes
30:47any sense in fact I think a lot of the
30:49conservative arguments you're not
30:50answering my question what's the
30:51solution it means to uproot it we so how
30:54do you do that I want to know how you're
30:55going to uproot an entire percentage of
30:57people oh oh I'm not uprooting people
30:59I'm I would return American public law
31:01to what it was before roughly 2015 I
31:03don't understand the perspective of how
31:05you or the conservative party is going
31:07to make any sort of progress in
31:10eradicating an entire percentage I think
31:12it's just we're not eradicating people
31:13you trying to say that because it it
31:15makes us look crazy saying no I said I
31:17want to eradicate a whole ideology of
31:19transgenderism trans people that is
31:23going to be people that you are taking
31:25no like if I want to eradicate poverty
31:26that doesn't mean I want to kill all the
31:28poor people I'm not saying I'm not
31:29saying that you want to kill I I'm
31:31asking you what your plan like what in
31:33the best case scenario how are you going
31:34to get people to stop being trans I
31:36think we're going to tell boys that
31:38they're not girls we're going to tell
31:40boys that they're not girls that they're
31:41going to listen yeah basically really
31:43yeah what we done for most of hist
31:46happened to me and I can promise you to
31:48God that I didn't listen yeah well
31:50because we live at a time that is is
31:51affirming the transgender delusion but
31:53if we lived at a more sensible time
31:55probably you would have listened and you
31:56might have had some think we should just
31:58return to a more sensible kind of
31:59politics how what is your you're not
32:01giving a solution on how you would even
32:03be capable of doing I think I am I think
32:04we kicked the fellas out of the boys
32:05bathroom we kick the transgender
32:06teaching out of schools I we just
32:09enforced the law as it was before 2015
32:11there was a law
32:12prohibiting trans women to go into the
32:15women's bathroom or trans men going into
32:17the men's bathroom yeah it it's there in
32:19the term women's bathroom that's why men
32:21can't go that's a law yes you you there
32:24are all sorts of laws against public in
32:25decency for one uh against men going
32:28into women's sports leagues or all sorts
32:30of regulations against that or at least
32:31there were until recently we did not
32:33have established in public life
32:35transgenderism until very very recently
32:37that's not true that's not true what
32:39about the two-spirited people what what
32:41is the two-spirited people in the
32:43Indigenous Community they are I'm I
32:45don't want to get into semantics but I'm
32:47just I know that there had there the
32:50fact is that there has always been trans
32:52people do you know where the phrase
32:53two-spirited came from I don't enlighten
32:56me it came from the third and ual
32:58intertribal Native American First
33:00Nations gay and lesbian Americans
33:03Conference in 1990 and the woman who
33:05coined that term I just don't think that
33:07that's true it's true the woman who
33:08coined that term aditt hold hold on let
33:10me just let me just finish my point on
33:11this the the woman who coined that term
33:13Maya laramy admitted somewhat recently
33:16that the term two Spirit came to her in
33:18a in a dream in 1990 now the OG Nation
33:22actually has translated this term it's
33:25the
33:30how you're capable of eradicating entire
33:31percentage of people by setting laws
33:34because people are as I think you're
33:36choosing not to hear what I'm saying
33:38because I'm saying we don't want to
33:39eradicate any people we want to erate
33:42eradicate but the other word is
33:44transgenderism which is an ideology
33:46about a group of people I am a
33:47transgender person you you can't just
33:49you are a confused person but you're not
33:52I'm so secure in myself and there's
33:54other women in this room that are also
33:56trans have been transf for 20 plus years
33:58seven years babe that know exactly what
34:00they're doing you're confused because
34:02it's not possible for a man to become at
34:04somebody without knowing their bodily
34:05autonomy knowing anything that's going
34:07on with their medical history
34:09anything nothing about I know the basics
34:11of human nature you know nothing about
34:13me I know that you're a
34:15human and I know a little bit about
34:17human nature and I know that a boy can't
34:19become a girl so that's what I know does
34:22anybody want to
34:23take you're tapping
34:26out yeah
34:30[Music]
34:32okay I feel like I did you dirty there
34:34that was very unch I will I'll let you
34:37I'll only take a sec okay everyone just
34:39vote me out in like in like a minute or
34:40two okay um I want to make a very quick
34:43point Y uh that was about a lot of stuff
34:46oh my God you'd be great at Jeopardy all
34:47these things okay so you mentioned uh
34:51what you would do if your kid uh came to
34:54you and said you know in a medical sense
34:56they had gender dysphoria right and
34:57gender dysphoria a specific medical
34:59diagnosis where somebody's sense of
35:01their gender is not matched to their
35:03physical gender related characteristics
35:05Andor the way Society perceives them Y
35:08in a world where gender affirming care
35:12is allowed as a parent you still have
35:15the right to not have your kid go
35:18through that care right in some in some
35:20places you don't why is it that every
35:23Major Medical Association supports
35:26access to this care that is n true uh
35:28Sweden Finland and the UK all just
35:30banned the cross seex or the the puberty
35:32blockers for children because there was
35:34the cast review of the of the
35:36transgender studies welome to my trap
35:38Michael okay I learned about the cast
35:40review the cast review was done by Dr
35:43Hillary Cass a pediatrician um on behalf
35:45of the NHS y they did not find any
35:48evidence of harm and they did not
35:50recommend a ban and a ban did not happen
35:52all they did was a on what puberty
35:55blockers puberty blockers all they did
35:57was limit access to research settings
36:00France did a similar National Review
36:03they found the opposite thing so here's
36:04the problem watch the UK the UK did ban
36:06it that's something you said no they
36:07restricted it have you ever seen guns
36:09are restricted they're not banned there
36:11you go that's the difference so um have
36:13you ever watched a toothpaste commercial
36:14Michael this is my line I prepared I
36:16want to say okay you know when they say
36:19nine out of 10 dentists recommend this
36:21toothpaste yeah yeah I feel like what
36:22you guys do is you point to the 10th
36:25who's you guys uh the people who are
36:27conservatives and Advocate your position
36:29you say look at the 10th dentist they're
36:31a dentist and they think this toothpaste
36:33is terrible what about the other nine
36:34dentists why is there a global medical
36:37consensus there isn't a global medical
36:39consens glad gay and lesbian alliance
36:41against defamation I bet you didn't know
36:43that
36:43acronym Google glad medical associations
36:47they have a page where all of this is
36:49just links to like 30 something medical
36:52associations but you're suggesting that
36:53the review by the NHS of the puberty
36:56blockers is is the dentist and it's not
36:58and furthermore even the New York Times
37:00which I don't read I don't like the New
37:01York Times New York Times okay hold on
37:03hold on let me just make this point the
37:04New York Times came out very recently in
37:062022 the puberty blockers contrary to
37:08what we've been told are not in fact
37:10often reversible that is one of the
37:12reasons why you're seeing major
37:14restrictions if you like to call it that
37:16moving toward full bands in multiple
37:18countries is because it causes all sorts
37:20of problems for kids long term have you
37:22ever met a kid with asthma uh yes so a
37:25kid with asthma might be prescribed
37:28um I'm sorry I'm blanking here um is
37:30this hard is this hard yes thank you
37:33it's a steroid right yeah steroids can
37:35have side effects doctors monitor for
37:38side effects yes so puberty blockers can
37:41have side effects doctors monitor for
37:42side effect the problem is that asthma
37:44responds to a real medical condition
37:46where you have trouble breathing gender
37:47dysphoria is in the DSM it's V out all
37:51right you're out a pleasure round round
37:53two yes we are yes thank you I'm happy
37:55to continue this if you want yeah all
37:58right I added five more
38:02minutes oh hi you guys thank you wow
38:05hello hi I'm Lex Lex nice to meet you
38:09I'm Michael I want to talk about um the
38:12term
38:13eradication um eradicating trans
38:15identity sure um trans people is really
38:18what you're referring to that's not what
38:20I'm referring to sure so I want to chat
38:22about where we've also seen that before
38:24can you guess where I'm going to guess
38:26you're going to say something about
38:27Hitler do you want to know the first
38:30book burning that the Nazi party did uh
38:34please yes it was the library of queer
38:38and trans history it's outrageous I
38:40heard Martin Luther burn Thomas
38:41aquinas's books which bothers more it's
38:44so funny you want to bring up Martin
38:46Luther right now but that's a whole
38:47another conversation my point fascism as
38:51a whole really loves to hone in on small
38:55portions of society um and right now I'm
38:58sorry I'm going to outright call you a
39:00fascist and say you're saying hate
39:03speech um what you're calling for is an
39:06eradication of a of an entire community
39:08of human beings that deserve because you
39:10say that do deserve to have rights that
39:14deserve they do they do deserve oh yeah
39:16I agree I totally agree as a I think
39:19you're very disrespectful to them by
39:21lying to them I think lying is very
39:23disrespectful guys do you feel like I'm
39:25lying to you no okay okay just want to
39:28make sure um but but you are know I
39:30guess I guess you know what you might
39:31not be lying in that you might be
39:33confused yourself and lying is an
39:34intentional is telling an intentional TR
39:36sure so I also want to talk about when
39:38we're talking about puberty blockers um
39:40and these longterm effects that actually
39:42haven't been studied there are genuinely
39:44no long-term studies on puberty blockers
39:48that have been repeated enough to be
39:50accepted by the American Academy of
39:52Pediatrics
39:54the by the American um sorry
39:58Academy of um clinical endocrinologists
40:01who are the clinical experts dat dat
40:05that we do have the data that we do have
40:07have persuaded even people who formerly
40:09advocated puberty blockers to to
40:11recognize that they are not totally re
40:13but they haven't because I literally can
40:15I'm sorry we can fact check this at home
40:17but I counted before I came in here 13
40:19different governing bodies of medical
40:21professionals who all
40:23support unanimously access to puberty
40:26blockers and gender affirming care right
40:28but I I just named you three whole
40:30Nations that don't support it anymore
40:32who previously did like Sweden was was
40:33the most probably protrans country in
40:35world how many countries are there there
40:37are how many countries that believe in
40:39transgenderism not that many not that
40:41many that believe in transgenderism to
40:43Purity blockers I
40:45want that's
40:52okay all on your own you got it thank
40:56you w at all the support coming from
40:58Indie I really appreciate it um I just
41:00find it interesting how usually this is
41:01Matt wallstick from y'all's place and it
41:03seems like you're trying to leech on it
41:04from a lot of the media tension that you
41:06got from the transgenderism should be
41:07eradicated do you want to talk a little
41:09bit more about why a woman should be
41:10doing that instead usually people don't
41:13usually confuse me for Matt Walsh they
41:14usually confuse me for Rachel mat but
41:17she didn't come here you present very
41:18feminine which is why I feel like it's
41:20weird that you keep calling yourself
41:21like he or this term Michael I still
41:24have yet to see a birth certificate or
41:25see anything GL that you recognize that
41:28there are stereotypical behaviors of men
41:30and women and that they maybe ought to
41:31behave in those way that's what a social
41:33role is performative characteristics so
41:34it looks like we're agreeing I don't I
41:36don't what I don't agree with though is
41:37that you're saying again the these
41:39specific uh biological essentialism
41:41which you cannot prove right now I
41:44wouldn't call myself I wouldn't call
41:45myself a biological essentialist you
41:47said things like chromosomes genitals
41:48are the only things that can determine
41:50what people can when when did I say that
41:52you what do you mean we can rewind the
41:54prompts you guys can go back in the Good
41:56Luck Good Luck doing that uh what have
41:57you said then I I agree with you that
42:00there is a social and performed aspects
42:03to gender in fact I agree that there is
42:05a distinction to be had
42:07between yeah no Judith Butler goes a
42:09little wrong I guess my point is the
42:12protr people say that when you are a man
42:16uh your body is that of a man uh but you
42:19uh desire to behave in a way that is not
42:22like a man that you should do that and
42:24then actually you should change your
42:25body often to be more like the opposite
42:27sex and I guess my argument is well
42:29that's not something that's advocated
42:30for for people who all experience gender
42:32dysphoria there are certain instances
42:34where the medical community will say
42:35that this does quity you don't think
42:37that puberty blockers and crossx
42:39hormones and surgeries are advocated for
42:42I'm glad you know my name said that you
42:44did say I am being respectful this time
42:46that's good because I I want to you know
42:48just respect and show that it's not
42:49something that has to be proven on a
42:50piece of paper the way that we engage is
42:52a dialogue so I'm just choosing to use
42:54the respectful terms that you've said
42:55even though you still haven't proved
42:56that your name is Michael by the way
42:57which is a little bit weird but uh we'll
42:59continue to go back to not all medical
43:01professionals will advocate for gender
43:02foring care for every person that's
43:04trans often times it's a social
43:05transition where people are just
43:06changing their name or the way that
43:08they're dressed so let's just have some
43:09appropriate respect treat people like
43:12Society IDE let's just treat people
43:14correlated with all sorts of terrible
43:15outcomes and it's contrary to reality so
43:17to your point wearing certain clothes is
43:19contrary to reality if you go to
43:22woman cry because are very masculine W I
43:26actually
43:27gender roles can change they're
43:28malleable is that what you're saying say
43:30there's not something intrinsic that
43:31says I should wear this exactly Fashions
43:33can change but but I'm willing to go
43:35further than maybe some of my friends
43:37and colleagues and conservatives which
43:39is that I don't think that that gender
43:42is just your biology because I don't
43:43think a human person is just a body I'm
43:45not a materialist I think that we're
43:47body and soul I think that we okay so
43:49that goes back to again you arguing from
43:50a religious perspective which you have
43:53American American right to have that
43:55lack of religious perspective too and
43:56that's I'm trying to be I'm A Patriotic
43:58Man Michael
44:00USA should we have the freedom of
44:02expression Freedom the First Amendment
44:04that's what it's there's no First
44:05Amendment right to obscenity first of
44:07all but second of all it's obscene for
44:08me to wear a dress but the the view
44:10isn't it weird because I have XX
44:11chromosomes Michael yeah B surprise do
44:14you have XX chromosomes yeah would you
44:15call me she her now I don't I I'll uh
44:19I'll looks I'll defer I'll defer it to
44:22you I I don't remember I don't remember
44:24your name what is your name what would
44:25you say my name is I don't know you can
44:27determine you just said easy it's very
44:29easy to determine well I I could say if
44:31you look more like a man or a woman but
44:32what is your name you look more like a
44:34man okay that you certainly do so much
44:37cuz I don't I have XY chromones by the
44:39way but you little flustering right
44:40there is a little bit uh it shows that
44:42you're like freaking out I'm trying to
44:43figure out what OB I don't think I don't
44:44think I'm freaking out I think that
44:46people are intentionally confusing
44:48people in public which is one of the
44:49problems of transgender confus yeah for
44:51a man to pretend to be a woman that
44:52would be one example saying that you're
44:54a man I'm not seeing any masculine
44:55qualities but I'll still call you a man
44:56for the rest of yeah that's I'm glad I'm
44:58glad you do because actually uh our
45:01identity as people doesn't depend upon
45:04some kind of performance I don't need to
45:05wear a tank top or look like a big
45:07there's just an performative
45:09characteristics that is something that
45:11you just said rewind again like 20
45:13seconds there is if if you would listen
45:14to what I've said there is a obviously a
45:17socially enacted aspect to sex the
45:20protrans people who are operating off of
45:23a religious or rather irreligious
45:25Gnostic anthropology say that when there
45:27is a distinction between the two one
45:29should favor the fantasy over the
45:30biological reality and what I'm saying
45:32is when there's a distinction between
45:34the two which does sometimes happen then
45:36if you're a fella you should just act
45:37like a man yeah and you acting like a
45:40man again is going to change depending
45:41on what the cultural context it is that
45:43you're residing in not all that you said
45:45you just said if I
45:46were be like y That's a little bit weird
45:48but just because I have a plaid pattern
45:50on it you're going to say it's masculine
45:51to where it kills that's something that
45:53Scots are pretty Scots are pretty
45:54masculine yeah fashion question change
45:57but human nature that's something that
45:58you just can't change Michael but I
46:00appreciate it I'm sorry Mindy Mindy huh
46:03all right you say it again call you
46:07thank you I appreciate that hey before
46:10we go any further we want to take a
46:11moment to say thanks so much to straight
46:13arrow news for powering the fact checks
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47:04thanks again to straight arrow news for
47:06partnering with us on this episode now
47:08let's get into it my next claim is that
47:11lgbtq identity is a social
47:19contagion we lost a chair
47:23hi hi hello um I guess I'd like to start
47:26off this conversation by pointing out
47:29some other people that share your
47:31opinion that lgbtq plus people are a
47:33social contagion I didn't say that I
47:35said lgbtq identity is social because
47:38that's a huge difference I think it's a
47:39major difference yeah yeah you know who
47:41else also would agree with you I'm
47:44guessing you're going to say Hitler or
47:45something and all of his friends yeah
47:49yeah you're right good job I you know
47:51Hitler also drank water okay do you
47:54drink water do you drink water be honest
47:57do you want to know how how much water I
47:59drink is that really the topic of this
48:00conversation well no but it's a
48:01comparison between you and Hitler and
48:03that's very scary well we're not talk
48:06about consumption of Aqua we're talking
48:08about ideologies right and there has
48:11been a large uptake in people who share
48:15the opinion that certain ideologies
48:18certain racial backgrounds are contagion
48:21and there's a lot of danger in that I am
48:23a nurse my background and my education
48:28has provided me with the privilege of
48:30being exposed to people of all
48:32backgrounds people of all belief systems
48:35I think that if we're going to talk
48:37about social contagion um I think we
48:40should start off by the ones that have
48:43positive and negative impacts on society
48:45because I could just as much say that
48:48hatred and bigotry are social contagion
48:52that toxic masculinity is a social
48:54contagion that are you saying that I'm a
48:57sort of Pinnacle of masculinity no I
48:59wouldn't say that all right then I'm not
49:00toxic um perfect yeah okay um I could
49:03also say um a myriad of other things
49:07when you say that lgbtq plus identities
49:09are a social contagion would you then
49:11venture to also say that you would like
49:14to see people like me and the rest of
49:16the people in this room
49:18eradicated uh no that would be quite a
49:20leap uh I'm just a leap I think so I'm
49:24observing a pretty basic social
49:26phenomenon which is that in the 9s about
49:281 to 3% of Americans identified as lgbtq
49:31and then in 2012 about 3 and a half%
49:33identified as
49:34lgbtq fast forward to 2020 it was about
49:375 a half% fast forward to 2024 so really
49:40really close it was 7.2% and now there's
49:42a number from NBC news says that 30% of
49:46gen Z identifies as lgbtq so I guess my
49:49observation is just either There's
49:51Something In The Water turning the frogs
49:52gay or there's something yes which
49:55actually oddly enough was a e study that
49:57kind of proved that but it's a topic Lu
49:59they got rid of the Dei program at the
50:00EPA that was turning the frogs G that's
50:03good that's good the EPA also discover
50:04that we're getting sidetracked either
50:06There's Something In The Water turning
50:07the Frog's gate or there's something
50:09social and cultural going on that would
50:11lead to that huge increase in the number
50:13of people there was a study just came
50:14out of University of York yesterday that
50:16showed a 50-fold increase in uh children
50:20who who think they're the wrong gender
50:22over the last 10 years how do you
50:23explain that if it's not a social
50:25phenomenon I would love to speak to that
50:27actually because one of the jobs I've
50:29worked as a nurse is um as a nurse at a
50:33summer camp for Trans teens I've worked
50:36with hundreds of trans teens I think
50:38that when we're talking about how people
50:42identify how comfortable they are to
50:44identify the way that they identify and
50:46their ability to assert themselves in
50:49that identity the social environment
50:51that surrounds them can either hinder
50:54that or allow them to embrace themselves
50:57so are you saying I'm try can I finish
50:59my point please like you thank you um
51:02when we are talking about people's
51:04ability to assert themselves and their
51:06identity if they are growing up in a
51:08society that tells them that they don't
51:10exist that their marriages don't exist
51:13um that they're a social contagion do
51:15you think that psychologically that
51:17person would feel empowered to they're
51:19not a social contagion the the fact of
51:21identifying as lgbtq is a social
51:24contagion um you can go back to
51:25semantics all you want semantics means
51:27meaning so if we want to understand what
51:28we mean we actually do have to delve
51:30into sems I'm going to go back to my
51:32point let's try um if someone is
51:36surrounded by people like you who are
51:39saying that their identity is invalid
51:41that their existence isn't valid that
51:43their marriages are not Val existence
51:44isn't valid who would say that do you
51:46think that that allows them to be in an
51:49environment where they feel empowered to
51:51do so they feel empowered to be
51:53themselves to admit to society around
51:56them this is who I am yeah but that
51:58isn't who they are if a little boy says
52:00he's a little girl he isn't really a
52:01little girl he's a little boy and I
52:03think it's actually very harmful to tell
52:04a little boy who thinks that he's a
52:06little girl that he's really a little
52:07girl and well my evidence for this would
52:09be that transgender identity which has
52:11skyrocketed especially among young
52:13people is tied to vastly higher rates of
52:16anxiety depression and suicide the
52:18transgender suicide rate as I suspect
52:20you know is between 32 and 50% you are
52:23flipping a coin if you tell someone to
52:25embrace his transgender identity you're
52:26basically flipping a coin with his life
52:28and so I think that's very harmful to
52:30that person and it's not founded on
52:32human nature
52:36sorry I would shake your hand but I
52:39don't really want to you don't want to
52:40all right that's
52:46okay it's close next time hello how you
52:50doing good I'm Jeremiah Jeremiah Michael
52:52nice to meet you okay so I just wanted
52:55to kind of Define terms a little B but
52:57you mentioned social contagion contagion
53:00how uh meaning uh well going back
53:03there's a good study by Dr Lisa Litman
53:05that showed this was back in 2018 that
53:08uh peer influence is one of the great
53:10drivers of transgender identity so
53:12that's how it's a social contagion
53:13people look around at their peers and
53:15they see them identifying as lgbtq and
53:17that makes them much more likely to
53:19identify that way themselves okay so by
53:21that definition cuz I'm thinking
53:23contagion makes it sound like it's a
53:24disease right yeah it's not a disease
53:26it's not good it's it leads to lots of
53:28bad Health outcomes go so you're saying
53:30bad um and I think you mentioned earlier
53:32you said oh kids are more likely to
53:35attempt suicide if they come out as
53:38trans right anyone not just kids anyone
53:40who identifies as transgender is
53:43significantly more likely to be orders
53:46of magnitude more Let Let Me focus on
53:48where I my expertise is I'm a therapist
53:51and the thing is when kids and adults
53:54get mental health care they're less
53:56likely to attempt suicide furthermore if
53:59kids have to hide their identity because
54:01of people that are Ultra conservative
54:04and try and um repress someone's
54:06sexuality and or identity those kids and
54:09adults are more likely to attempt
54:11suicide that is not backed up by the
54:13scientific literature I'm what
54:14scientific literature are you talking
54:15about there is lots of scientific
54:17Literature answer that question do you
54:19want me to answer your question well you
54:21asked me what scientific literature I'm
54:22talking about I'm happy to answer that
54:23question but maybe you don't want me to
54:25well it's not it's not because that only
54:26it's because you are going to pick stats
54:29that support your point of view we all
54:30know that data can be put what if I Pi
54:33what if I pick the largest data set on
54:34transgender outcomes ever compiled no
54:37would that be helpful I want to hear
54:38more about how you are actually thinking
54:40about this well I'm thinking about this
54:42based on the science that you won't let
54:43me talk about because you know it
54:44undercuts your argument no I think that
54:46what what I'm getting at is that you're
54:48thinking about how you view personally
54:50because of your transphobic and
54:52homophobic views yourself hold on where
54:54where did that come from I'm just trying
54:56to tell what the science says and you're
54:57trying to just call me TR phobic and
54:59this phobic I don't know I'm happy to
55:01give you I'm happy to give you an answer
55:03you are though I don't have an
55:05irrational fear of of an imaginary
55:07identity it's
55:09so it's okay I have a rational fear of
55:12it becoming a you know social problem
55:19but hello hello how are you I'm good I
55:22think I just cuz initially The Prompt
55:25was about lgbtq qia identity and we're
55:27really hyperfocusing on that trans
55:30identity we can do any identity
55:31absolutely so I kind of just want to
55:32speak from my own anecdotal experience
55:35I'm not here to debate change anybody's
55:37mind what I can tell you is that pre-
55:40transition all the mental health issues
55:43I had all of that was starting before I
55:45transitioned since I transitioned
55:47started my hormones have done all the
55:49right things gotten my gender affirming
55:51care all of these issues problems I've
55:54had have alleviated how long ago did you
55:55do it um about a year ago yeah that is
55:58also backed up in the scientific
56:00literature that there can be short-term
56:02uh improvements to mental health or even
56:04a shortterm Euphoria but but the
56:05longterm there it I me people are
56:08laughing at this well because it's
56:09ridiculous well okay so in 2019 the uh
56:12American Journal of Psychiatry published
56:14the uh a study giving giving the largest
56:17data set on uh transgender experience
56:20doesn't matter at all it does but it
56:22doesn't matter as much as data because
56:24data is just a lot of anecdotes you know
56:25many many so it it looked at much longer
56:28term uh analysis and and what it it
56:31tried to argue was that the transgender
56:33hormones and and surgical treatments uh
56:35did improve outcomes on anxiety and
56:38suicide and depression but they had to
56:40issue a correction very quickly because
56:42there was a methodological error and
56:44when they when they admitted this I'm
56:45not interested in talking about policy
56:47I'm really talking about but I'm talking
56:48about science not policy I understand
56:50what you're saying but I'm sitting here
56:51in front of you as a transwoman who is
56:53telling you that every issue I've had
56:55before mental health problem before I
56:56started my hormones is gone and I'm
56:58telling you statistically it's going to
56:59come back it's you're wrong like you can
57:01you can't predict the future like I
57:04don't I'm not predicting the future and
57:05maybe you'll be one of the lucky few I
57:07guess my point is this uh if you look at
57:10the not just one anecdote but but and
57:13actually your anecdote actually fits
57:14into the scientific liter it doesn't it
57:16it does because doesn't I've been a
57:17trans person since I was a child I've
57:19experienced the gender dysphoria my
57:20entire life and the second I got on my
57:23hormones everything started improving
57:26doing it a year ago a year ago I've also
57:27been socially out as a gender ambiguous
57:29person since I was 22 sure you don't
57:32know anything about my medical history
57:33I'm not I'm not claiming to know
57:34anything about your medical you're
57:35trying to claim that you know about my
57:37medical history you're also trying to
57:38say that in the future I'm not going to
57:40be okay no no I'm not saying that either
57:42I'm saying I'm saying statistically you
57:44probably won't I'm saying I'm saying
57:46that the largest dat trans do you know
57:49i' love to know apparently not enough
57:51clearly clearly not enough what I'm
57:54telling you and I know you're talking
57:55over me cuz you don't want to hear this
57:57but what I'm telling you is the largest
57:59data set the largest study ever
58:01conducted to follow the long-term
58:03outcomes of transgender identifying
58:05people found that not only did did their
58:07suicide rates and depression not improve
58:09their anxiety actually went up and so
58:11what I'm telling you is if you're
58:13feeling a kind of euphoria that
58:15pretending that you were the opposite
58:16sex has made you feel better pretend I'm
58:17the opposite sex yes you are pretending
58:19and I don't think that it's respectful
58:21to L people pretty good don't you guys
58:23think yeah you're not pretending
58:27I think I think everybody else here I
58:29think you might be really angry with me
58:31for telling you the truth I feel like
58:32I'm remaining quite you're you're
58:34remaining relatively calm but I think
58:36you're I think you're angry I think
58:37you're probably not thrilled that I'm
58:39telling you that you're not really I
58:41don't care do you not you're you're
58:43sitting here talking to me it seems like
58:44you care a lot I'm here to give context
58:47to a conversation that you clearly know
58:48nothing about you don't know any trans
58:50do you know personally any trans people
58:52you never really I know a number of
58:53people who identify as trans and so
58:55they're not you know some who have gone
58:57back the other way because it it was
58:58ruining their lives love to hear yeah
59:00you'd love to hear about people who
59:01regret they are oh I don't know it was
59:03just with a couple of them the other
59:04night political party well Chloe Cole
59:07would be probably the most famous
59:08example have you I don't know if you've
59:09seen her work she's doing much better
59:11now I've interviewed a number of people
59:12who have detransitioned on this show all
59:14all the only reason I'm I'm I'm
59:16mentioning the detransitioners is uh you
59:19you might think that it's really nice to
59:21affirm you in your delusion that you're
59:23the opposite it's not nice it's it's I
59:25have to do it if I didn't start my
59:28gender hormone therapy anything like
59:29that I wouldn't be here right now having
59:31this conversation with you because of
59:32gender dysphoria I because because what
59:35you would have I I just think that there
59:38are a lot of avenues that could have
59:40happened if I didn't my hor I don't like
59:44I I just don't think that the broadness
59:47that you're bringing to the table right
59:48now is I'm bring I'm bringing scientific
59:50specificity and logical Precision told
59:52you've met a d transition person but I'm
59:54asking if you know a transgender women I
59:57know people who identify as transgender
59:59and how are they doing not well really
1:00:02yeah and
1:00:06statistically it's a good line there was
1:00:08off camera they said PR because they
1:00:09know me uh statistically 32 to 50% of
1:00:13people who identify as trans will kill
1:00:14themselves and that's really bad and I
1:00:16think that if there's anything we can do
1:00:17to improve that number know about like
1:00:19their access that they have to hormone
1:00:20therapy do we know about any access to
1:00:22Medical Care it it doesn't imp that's
1:00:25what I was trying to tell you about the
1:00:26waiting the suicide rates don't improve
1:00:29after they access all of that supposed
1:00:30where did you get that from I'm very
1:00:32interested from the American Journal of
1:00:36[Music]
1:00:37[Applause]
1:00:38[Music]
1:00:43Psychiatry
1:00:45finally hi Michael hello how are you
1:00:47Gilbert nice to meet you I do watch you
1:00:50a lot actually thank you thank you for
1:00:51watching me you have great taste in
1:00:53podcast thank you I appreciate that so
1:00:56lgbtq identity being a social contagion
1:00:59your statement was not that it can be
1:01:01you said that it is yes right I might be
1:01:04willing to agree with you that it can be
1:01:05right because socially sometimes people
1:01:07are like well I feel more at home in
1:01:10this community whatever is it your
1:01:12belief that it's that every person who
1:01:15is gay or lesbian or bisexual trans
1:01:17actually let's go just to the gay
1:01:18because I'm gay so I'll talk about that
1:01:20I just outed myself I think everybody
1:01:22knew that um obvious but um do you
1:01:26believe this controversial but that's
1:01:27why we're here do you believe that I'm
1:01:29choosing to be gay oh I well so you make
1:01:32a good point because obviously it
1:01:35couldn't be a social contagion all the
1:01:37way down because at some point you know
1:01:38there's got to be the first gay guy I
1:01:40don't I don't know the story of the
1:01:41first gay guy but uh no I I I think it's
1:01:44entirely possible that there could be
1:01:46either some environmental factor that
1:01:48inclines one to to be uh to have samesex
1:01:50attraction or even potentially a genetic
1:01:53Factor though they've never discovered
1:01:54the so-called gay
1:01:56but that is different from lgbtq
1:01:59Identity and it can be in a few
1:02:01different ways one uh one could either
1:02:03if one has these same sex attractions
1:02:05could still like marry a woman or could
1:02:06be celibate or could just not you know
1:02:08or do you think that's ethical for a gay
1:02:10man to marry a woman to take that spot
1:02:12in her life that could be going to a
1:02:14straight man that's not loving well you
1:02:16know as a Christian sorry I'm a
1:02:18Christian you should maybe be honest I
1:02:19wouldn't lie to your wife or anything no
1:02:21I'm gay we're never going to be into
1:02:22this I'm never going to be into this I'm
1:02:24GNA hold my breath and all that but
1:02:26let's do that so that I can get you're
1:02:28okay with that maybe you should not get
1:02:29married I'm not I'm not encouraging that
1:02:31you I don't think that's a loving thing
1:02:32to do Michael yeah no I'm not I'm not
1:02:34saying that anyone has to do that but
1:02:35that's one thing that one could do or
1:02:37one could just do what that or you think
1:02:39it's an option I mean it happens plenty
1:02:41of guys I know of course especially in
1:02:43the church a lot of closed gay men are
1:02:45Maring women I think we know that right
1:02:47do you think that that's the correct
1:02:48thing to do though is that ethical to do
1:02:50to that woman to take that away from her
1:02:52well I don't know I mean if you're going
1:02:53to fulfill the responsibilities of a
1:02:55husband and
1:02:56responsibilities I don't know you know
1:02:58like provide keep a roof over their
1:03:00heads uh have children children part
1:03:03don't be your father well you said well
1:03:05you the provision okay I can do that but
1:03:07you said have a children how can I have
1:03:08a child with her you would well do you
1:03:10want me to spell it out I don't as a gay
1:03:12man how can I have a child with her well
1:03:14you know if uh listen I've got I lived
1:03:17in New York I lived in La I went to the
1:03:19gayest University in the world I know a
1:03:20disproportionate number of guys who are
1:03:22a little light in the loafers some of
1:03:23them probably could marry a woman maybe
1:03:26some of them could not so they don't
1:03:27have to so so ex it's external for you
1:03:30then as long as it appears to be a
1:03:31certain way it doesn't matter what's
1:03:32going on in the inside is that what
1:03:33you're telling me no you're asking me
1:03:34how can a how can a man and a woman make
1:03:36a baby even if the guy's not that into
1:03:38it I said I don't know your mayed a
1:03:40marriage that's what I'm trying to I'm
1:03:41trying to get to the the heart of the
1:03:42issue quite literally the heart of a gay
1:03:44person to to be ethical and to to to
1:03:48live their life ethic I don't think your
1:03:50sexual attractions constitute the
1:03:51entirety of your being oh I I agree with
1:03:53that but in this I don't think that's
1:03:55the heart of a person I think it's part
1:03:58of my identity an aspect of your prompt
1:04:00is about identity right yeah I guess I
1:04:02would go even further I I know guys who
1:04:04are you know they didn't marry women and
1:04:06they you know hang out just themselves
1:04:07and everything and uh but they wouldn't
1:04:09call themselves LGBT activists they
1:04:11don't W wave the rainbow flag they don't
1:04:13they don't they think that movement
1:04:15really doesn't speak for them I agree I
1:04:17understand so I think that would be a a
1:04:19distinction you know in in that kind of
1:04:21social contagion okay so we have some
1:04:22Middle Ground then so there somebody can
1:04:24be gay but not make it this this this
1:04:27activism part yeah that the identity is
1:04:29actually different from as a point that
1:04:31I you've explained very well that others
1:04:33were missing I think uh it can be an
1:04:36aspect of your desire or whatever it
1:04:39doesn't have to be your identity which
1:04:41that has clearly become a social
1:04:42contagion the the entire the totality of
1:04:44your identity but it is part of your
1:04:46identity Michael my being gay will never
1:04:48change so it is part of who I am yeah
1:04:50maybe I mean you don't doesn't need you
1:04:52don't need to like shack up with a man I
1:04:54you can I'm not saying you can think
1:04:55that I should be celibate well I'm
1:04:57Catholic so I I would recommend Chastity
1:04:59and all all the rest but you know that's
1:05:02uh that's up for you to decide I'm not
1:05:04saying you have to do that you for all
1:05:06of human history you know fellas have uh
1:05:08you know done odd things together
1:05:11okay it was a pleasure such a pleasure
1:05:14pleasure all mine thank
1:05:15[Applause]
1:05:21you Frank Rodriguez Frank pleasure to
1:05:23meet you I like that flag pin thank you
1:05:26I'm actually a big fan of yours I
1:05:28subscribe I've worked with our
1:05:30government from Hawaii to Florida
1:05:32passing conservative legislation love it
1:05:34and um I just have a question for you do
1:05:36you think that the way that you're
1:05:37presenting the information here today is
1:05:40counterintuitive to the people in this
1:05:41room to get them to vote in a certain
1:05:43way that helps our party am I winning
1:05:46votes for the Republicans right now
1:05:48don't I'm with how you do your content
1:05:49and how you project your advocacy I
1:05:52think I'm fairly persuasive but but my
1:05:53goal right now is not V for
1:05:58the I'm try I'm try question you've
1:06:00already lied you know that you're not
1:06:03because you've been in here triggering
1:06:04People based on the terminology that you
1:06:06use I used to be like you when I was a
1:06:08first tell the truth I used to tell
1:06:10people things just to trigger them I'm
1:06:12not I'm not I'm not saying that is a
1:06:15totally false accusation you accusing me
1:06:17of using ACC Prova language no I'm I
1:06:21might be so why did you use the word
1:06:23contagion why LGBT because it's is LGBT
1:06:26I want to know specifically why you
1:06:28chose the word contagion I said social
1:06:29contagion CU it's contagious that's why
1:06:32does the word contagious have a positive
1:06:34or negative connotation to it it's a
1:06:36negative connotation thank you so you
1:06:37chose negative verbage yes I think the
1:06:39LGB I think the spread of LGT this what
1:06:42really bothers me I don't agree with a
1:06:44lot of the people that sit in this
1:06:45circle I agree a lot with you but it's
1:06:48people like you that I have to defend
1:06:50when I stare at these people in their
1:06:52face trying to convince them to vote for
1:06:54our party
1:06:58it's about meeting people where they're
1:06:59at that's why I don't think that you do
1:07:01this to actually change these people's
1:07:04minds I think you do this to sit in that
1:07:06seat for clicks and Views why do you do
1:07:08why do you choose language I'm happy to
1:07:10answer well I'm using precise language
1:07:12because I want to get to the heart of
1:07:13the matter and not be wishy-washy and
1:07:15mey mouth and not understand each other
1:07:17when you choose to stare at these people
1:07:19tell and try to convince them that
1:07:21you're right you choose vitriol language
1:07:24vitriolic I said you're not an idiot
1:07:27Michael you're pretty smart I've watched
1:07:29you for a long time you used the word
1:07:31contagion in your statement to provide a
1:07:34negative outcome to what word would you
1:07:35prefer to make my point that's a good
1:07:38question that's a very good question I
1:07:40wish you had an answer that is a very
1:07:41good
1:07:42question I would say that LGBT is
1:07:46something that can be taught that's what
1:07:47I would LGBT well LGBT can be taught but
1:07:50I'm saying the spread of the identity is
1:07:52not merely taught with formal pedagogy
1:07:54but it spreads through my misus would
1:07:56you prefer that I use that language I
1:07:57don't think that's going to resonate
1:07:58with anybody what I would say is I have
1:08:00to meet them where they're at and I
1:08:02don't think you choose to do that I
1:08:03think you choose for this clickbait
1:08:05because at the end of the day I
1:08:08have to stare these are the people I
1:08:09advocate here in Los Angeles because I
1:08:11have to defend actions like yours what
1:08:13actions are you so upset about that I
1:08:15I'm upset I'm very passionate don't
1:08:17mistake my passion for upset yeah that's
1:08:21thank you all right a pleasure yes thank
1:08:23you
1:08:25I have one on me actually my next claim
1:08:28is that Pride parades should be
1:08:33banned I'm so fast you guys that was
1:08:36fast hi hello um nice to meet you Ryan
1:08:39you as well so um go on I think they
1:08:42ought to be banned go on that's my CLA
1:08:45well because they're disgusting and I
1:08:47don't think that my uh grandmother or my
1:08:50kids or even myself should be forced to
1:08:53see these obscene displays in public
1:08:55fasc when were you forced last to go to
1:08:56a pride parade well I if I'm to walk
1:08:59down Main Street you know in in many
1:09:01cities in this country I would be forced
1:09:03for much of the month of June uh it
1:09:05seems to have metastasized so it's not
1:09:07just a day it's a week it's a month it's
1:09:08two months I would be forced to see
1:09:10these kinds of displays unless I wanted
1:09:12to remain a shut in and see the public
1:09:14are there any other things that happen
1:09:15in public that you find uh objectionable
1:09:17that you don't want have to be exposed
1:09:18to yeah like what uh women driving too
1:09:22slowly in front of me that bothers me
1:09:24but I'm not going to take away women's
1:09:25driver's licenses but I would say like
1:09:28the 2024 pride parade in San Francisco
1:09:30when two grown men were urinating on
1:09:32each other in a kitty pool in front of
1:09:34kids I think that should be banned I
1:09:35don't think that's unreasonable well
1:09:36look um there's I I want to make a
1:09:38distinction here between um there way
1:09:42that by the way that is the thing you
1:09:43have to they do say it's wholesome do
1:09:44say it's wholesome I got I got to give
1:09:47you this though you are so good at
1:09:48redirecting 3% in the middle of someone
1:09:51else's good point and I would love I'm
1:09:54I'm waiting for some good points please
1:09:55enlighten me I got you so um the concept
1:09:59of pride is a lot larger than uh extreme
1:10:02things you might see on the outlier uh
1:10:05of the scale of things that happen on
1:10:06Pride now I I I will grant you that
1:10:09there have been things that happen at
1:10:10Pride like many other kinds of festivals
1:10:13that maybe you don't want your kids
1:10:14exposed to which is why you don't take
1:10:15your kids to them but they're often
1:10:17marketed as family friendly like the let
1:10:20me let me finish um Pride as a whole is
1:10:24about a community of people who have
1:10:25been denied like you're real good at uh
1:10:28existence of for most of time denied
1:10:31existence what does that yes yeah you
1:10:33okay fine public existence we've been
1:10:35denied the access to being ourselves in
1:10:37public so so which is an essential thing
1:10:40so so so Pride celebrations are
1:10:44essentially an act of resistance to that
1:10:45and an opportunity for us to come
1:10:46together and be seen which many of us
1:10:48don't feel safe doing alone now on the
1:10:50corners of things like Pride sometimes
1:10:52something happens that I don't want to
1:10:53see sometimes on the main stage you sure
1:10:55listen I'm not saying objectionable
1:10:57things never happen yeah but you make
1:10:59they often happen actually no well how
1:11:01many you don't spend a lot of time at
1:11:03Prides do you I don't but I read the
1:11:04news and I see the main streets cities
1:11:06all right let me let me let me just let
1:11:07me just let me let me just be clear as
1:11:09somebody who has been to many that I
1:11:12what you're describing is statistically
1:11:14insignificant it is significant to the
1:11:16people who have to see you're
1:11:18describing it the occurrences are
1:11:20statistically insignificant so you're
1:11:22taking this thing that happens like .2%
1:11:25of the time and apply a little bit more
1:11:27I know you think that but you're wrong
1:11:28I'm just telling you you're wrong what's
1:11:29your evidence that I'm wrong cuz I can
1:11:31cite to you all the examples sure and I
1:11:33can cite you a bajillion examples of
1:11:35inconsequential Pride parades it's that
1:11:37goes both ways of in incon
1:11:39inconsequential didn't it happened it
1:11:40went nothing crazy happened I mean just
1:11:42within the last two years I mentioned
1:11:43the San Francisco thing which you'll say
1:11:45well that's something else okay well New
1:11:46York City when the naked guys are riding
1:11:48on the bikes Minneapolis Pride you you
1:11:50had a guy twerking in his underwear in
1:11:53front of kids governor Tim wal showed up
1:11:56to that parade yeah happily I'm not a
1:11:57Minnesota citizen uh if if you look at
1:11:59even in West Hollywood not too far from
1:12:01where we are now at a supposedly
1:12:03familyfriendly Pride event there was a
1:12:04man almost naked who was being choked
1:12:07and whipped by a guy wearing leather
1:12:08almost like he was a member of the Biden
1:12:10Administration it was totally obene inap
1:12:12I I hear your point um I know I know you
1:12:14could go on um and here's the thing that
1:12:16I find really interesting about this um
1:12:19you are you have great anecdotes
1:12:22anecdotes are not data well you don't
1:12:24have data either well difference between
1:12:25us is I'm not trying to pretend I have
1:12:27specific data I don't I'm telling you if
1:12:28you take the lived experiences of these
1:12:3020-some people who are all telling you
1:12:33which are anecdotes yes more than yours
1:12:35but here's but are they more anecdotal
1:12:37than mine they were just an by volume by
1:12:39volume but here's the thing we need to
1:12:41get more conservatives into this room I
1:12:42agreed to come into a room surrounded by
1:12:4420 Libs here you are right um you have a
1:12:47point that things happen that you don't
1:12:48like to
1:12:50see sure sure but you are not speaking
1:12:54as uh in reference to the majority of
1:12:56what pride is now we can disagree about
1:12:58that I'm right but if if your contention
1:13:01is well I disagree most of it's OB scene
1:13:02there's nothing to talk about you're
1:13:04just wrong so so would you would you
1:13:05agree with me oh you're out all
1:13:16right you got
1:13:20it all right I feel as though a lot of
1:13:23your claims today have been backed by
1:13:25this energy that you just want to erase
1:13:28lgbtqi plus people and our history where
1:13:31do you get that from from your
1:13:32perspective on a lot of the trans
1:13:35because I'll tell you what all all I've
1:13:36been doing I've just been coming here
1:13:37and citing historical examples and
1:13:39citing a lot of scientific studies and
1:13:41telling you explicitly that I'm talking
1:13:43about an ideology that I think is not
1:13:44conducive to the flourishing of anyone
1:13:46and for the good of everyone including
1:13:48you guys I I would like to see a
1:13:49restoration of sensibility and every
1:13:52time I say something like that you say n
1:13:54man I just kind of The Vibes that you
1:13:55hate us and want to erase us all and I
1:13:57don't know where you're getting that
1:13:58from let's let's let's join your side
1:14:00and let's say you know what let let's
1:14:02let's say everyone should follow your
1:14:04lead and let's say as a society we
1:14:07should ban pride and let's say as a
1:14:09society we should eradicate trans people
1:14:11in our transgender again your point
1:14:14transgenderism encapsulates everything
1:14:17lgbtqi plus just in that isn't true it's
1:14:20just an idea that a boy can become a
1:14:22girl which isn't true and I think we
1:14:23should forget about that so that people
1:14:25including the ones who think that
1:14:26they're the opposite sex can flourish
1:14:27again so you would agree with me when I
1:14:29say by eradicating transgenderism you
1:14:32would also
1:14:33eradicate the history of trans people
1:14:36just in general well you
1:14:38caning the fact we here in this room
1:14:41today because of black Trans women and
1:14:43because of I am not in this room because
1:14:45of black Trans women I can promise are
1:14:47you in this room then because I was
1:14:49invited on this podcast to what exactly
1:14:52the hate speech the Ric that you spread
1:14:54on your little YouTube channel no just
1:14:56uh to Advocate truth and Sensibility
1:14:59truth and Sensibility the truth of aing
1:15:00matter is you're surrounded by 25 really
1:15:03proud
1:15:04lgbtqia people who do not give a
1:15:07about you you obviously do you're here
1:15:09talking to me what are you talking about
1:15:10you obviously care what because you
1:15:13give us I just want to be on YouTube
1:15:16Michael say yeah some just want to be on
1:15:18YouTube no I'll tell you what look we we
1:15:21and it's harmful when when when when in
1:15:25history but also today this month alone
1:15:28our entire government is run by straight
1:15:29white men who are hurting these
1:15:31communities and I know you live on a
1:15:33pedestal and you were able to put on
1:15:34your little suit today spr on your
1:15:36little cologne I didn't put on any
1:15:38cologne that's just my musk that's my
1:15:40natural musk wait hold on correction you
1:15:42should have put on oh wow real nice
1:15:44exactly but now let's imagine a world
1:15:47where you had to put on a dress and you
1:15:50had to put on Heels I'd prefer not to
1:15:52yeah I don't think I would do that so
1:15:53what do you do about the people Society
1:15:55who have to put on their suit to live
1:15:57and who have to have a wife to live
1:16:00because I don't understand what you're
1:16:01asking people should no matter what they
1:16:04feel deep inside according to your views
1:16:05people I don't think anyone should be
1:16:06forced to be married or you're telling
1:16:08me you just spent your entire last three
1:16:10hours talking about how my people men
1:16:12should not be dressed in gowns dresses
1:16:16dressed fine you're wearing a big
1:16:17t-shirt I like cruix I would I would
1:16:20discourage you thong that I'm wearing
1:16:22underneath I would I don't need you to
1:16:24show me that I I would suggest you not
1:16:26do that but I don't really care that
1:16:28much so let's just go back to the point
1:16:30at hand yeah is what is the point your
1:16:33claim your claim your idiotic claim that
1:16:35we should just stop lgbtq pride no I
1:16:38guess all right pause you're out you're
1:16:41out pal see
1:16:49you sorry guys hello hi how's it going
1:16:53doing very well all right great to speak
1:16:55you Pleasures all mine all right so uh
1:16:58Pride parades should be banned that's
1:16:59your claim correct yes okay um I can
1:17:03meet some middle ground with you um
1:17:06sorry guys uh I think pride has kind of
1:17:09became a bad representation of what our
1:17:11community is yeah I agree um it's not
1:17:14all just like sex toys and leather right
1:17:18unfortunately which is why I think uh
1:17:21you know most conservatives kind of are
1:17:23completely on the other side it's like
1:17:25pend pendul pendulum swing is that okay
1:17:28so like one side of the the coin is
1:17:31pretty much that you know gays gay or
1:17:35I'm sorry LGBT we have fought so hard
1:17:37for our rights you know we kind of
1:17:38leaned so far one way whereas like now
1:17:43you know we've kind of accepted too much
1:17:45right as far as like we're so
1:17:46open-minded that um our brains fell out
1:17:50you could say that um in some aspect
1:17:52however um it doesn't take away the fact
1:17:55that you know there's still gay people
1:17:56that exist um I don't think Pride Parade
1:17:58should be banned however I think we
1:17:59should portray a different uh a
1:18:02different image of it yeah yeah I I
1:18:04think you're quite right you know for
1:18:06all of history and everywhere in the
1:18:07world there have been people who are a
1:18:09little little odd you know or they have
1:18:10desires that are not the mainstream and
1:18:12so I get it I'm not saying we need to
1:18:14like totally deny that or you know toss
1:18:17people out of society or anything it's
1:18:18just I said we should eradicate the
1:18:20transgender ideology yeah which is a
1:18:22false account of human nature but
1:18:25yeah I I think you can if you can
1:18:26separate the war on poverty from you
1:18:28know a war on poor people I think you
1:18:30you probably could well you you you had
1:18:33the most sensible take of anyone I
1:18:35really yeah pleasure to speak to you
1:18:41yeah all right it wasn't even close
1:18:44pleasure to meet you hi Shelby okay so
1:18:47is your main issue with the pride
1:18:49parades the nudity and obscenity the
1:18:51obscenity is is a big issue with it I
1:18:53also don't think that as a society we
1:18:56ought to be celebrating the deadliest of
1:18:58the seven deadly sins namely Pride not
1:19:00even the sex stuff but just Pride I just
1:19:02think that's kind of weird you know
1:19:03because we have every time we we in in
1:19:05America we used to have uh celebrations
1:19:07of like Christmas or Easter or even
1:19:10Thanksgiving and now those have been
1:19:11pushed out of the Public Square and
1:19:13we've been told that we're a secular
1:19:14country and we're not no there have been
1:19:16many many lawsuits in recent decades and
1:19:19uh so we've been told that we're not
1:19:21permitted to have these kinds of big
1:19:22displays but what has replaced that the
1:19:24tradition lurgical calendar is this kind
1:19:26of secular lurgical calendar where now
1:19:28we celebrate the great feast of Pride
1:19:30and I just don't think one needs to feel
1:19:32pride in one's sexual behaviors okay but
1:19:35it's not just about sexual behavior it's
1:19:37about love it's about I mean I would say
1:19:40it's mainly about love I don't go around
1:19:42talking about my sexuality in a form
1:19:45where I'm like oh I have sex with women
1:19:47I say that I love women but you you love
1:19:50your family you love your neighbors you
1:19:52love your friends you don't have big
1:19:53parades for them you have you're
1:19:55specifically talking about love in a
1:19:57romantic and dare I suggest sexual
1:19:59context okay so you think that they
1:20:01should be shut down just because you
1:20:03think that they are disgusting well I
1:20:05think they're legally obscene so I think
1:20:07there's actually a legal predicate to
1:20:08shut them down but I also think broadly
1:20:10they're just sort of disreputable and
1:20:12odd and I don't think that that's the
1:20:13sort of thing we should celebrate on
1:20:15Main Street maybe on some sort of side
1:20:16street if you want to have a
1:20:18party but but I have a right to Main
1:20:20Street you know cuz I'm a citizen I mean
1:20:22yeah but you you don't have my Grandma
1:20:24has a right to go to the grocery store
1:20:25and walk down the street not yeah she
1:20:27has the right she has the right to go to
1:20:29the one that she likes downtown you know
1:20:31has her right to protest yeah oddly
1:20:33enough I mean I would I would actually
1:20:34someone just suggested the KKK has right
1:20:36to protest I would be more willing to
1:20:38circumscribe the supposed Free Speech
1:20:40rights of people but uh in that case you
1:20:42know courts have found that they have
1:20:43some right but there's no right for you
1:20:45know leather daddies to smack each other
1:20:46in a kidy pool or something but that's
1:20:48not everything that happens at Pride but
1:20:49it happens so consistently but I'm
1:20:51citing examples from San Francisco New
1:20:54York Oslo Toronto Minneapolis West
1:20:56Hollywood at what point do we see a
1:20:58pattern here there can be a pattern but
1:21:00it doesn't mean that that's all that
1:21:02happens at these parades well I'm sure
1:21:03people make you know ham sandwiches too
1:21:05but that's not the part that anyone has
1:21:06a problem with it's it's the sexual
1:21:09displays nobody said they can't people
1:21:12for doing something L and still have a
1:21:14for and you've also said that you it
1:21:18correct me if I'm wrong people often
1:21:19aren't cited for Luda but me if I'm
1:21:21wrong but somebody else came up here and
1:21:23you said that you don't think that the
1:21:24obscenity and the pride can be separated
1:21:27you don't think that that's something
1:21:29that people can do in principle they
1:21:31could be separated but even then it
1:21:32would raise the question why are we
1:21:34celebrating one particular or several
1:21:37particular kinds of sexual Arrangements
1:21:39why are we celebrating sexual
1:21:40Arrangements at all because we're
1:21:41celebrating love that's the thing you're
1:21:43you take should we should we have a
1:21:44parade for the love I have for my aunt
1:21:46gertude you want your aunt if yeah sure
1:21:49we should if you would
1:21:52feel I don't know I don't think I don't
1:21:54think that deserves a pray down Main
1:21:55Street okay I I think actually just if
1:21:58you're having a loving relationship or
1:22:00even a relationship you perceive as
1:22:02loving you can just sort of enjoy that
1:22:03and it doesn't need to become a big
1:22:05display down Main Street
1:22:08okay good job thank you thank you
1:22:12[Music]
1:22:16pleasure all alone all alone we're back
1:22:19all right so let's dive into details
1:22:23Pride Parade should be banned yeah what
1:22:25specifically would the conditions of
1:22:27Pride parades be for legal consequences
1:22:30well probably the Miller test which is
1:22:32the current uh obscenity um measure in
1:22:36the court I think there were better more
1:22:37robust ones in years past but that's way
1:22:39primarily appealing to the puant
1:22:41interests of condition so there are
1:22:43three conditions the old one was just
1:22:45puant interest so the first is uh by
1:22:47contemporary Community standards
1:22:48appealing to the puran interest I think
1:22:50the displays I've just because most
1:22:52people are fine with it right so I don't
1:22:55think so in fact I think the the UN one
1:22:57that you went to would beow no I think
1:22:59the uniform election of the Republicans
1:23:01in this past election running on LGBT
1:23:04issues and Dei in particular actually
1:23:05shows you that most Americans are not so
1:23:07down with
1:23:09this somebody has a on those aren't the
1:23:11only two criteria the other one would be
1:23:14uh depicting sex in an offensive manner
1:23:17I think obviously the pride parades hit
1:23:18that one and then the third one is that
1:23:21it has to lack serious literary artistic
1:23:23scientific
1:23:25is a great form of art put a lot of time
1:23:27in there I know you've been watching
1:23:28RuPaul dress who could turn it off but I
1:23:32think you know it's on that third one
1:23:34that you have the closest argument to a
1:23:36legal protection for the pride parade
1:23:38you say it's political if we already
1:23:40Miller test what new thing would you
1:23:41pass oh I would just enforce the law you
1:23:43just enforce the law so if a bunch of us
1:23:45get together we have rainbow Flags we
1:23:48have drag we have a float you're
1:23:50approving that permit as a city planner
1:23:52no I'm saying I would enforce obscenity
1:23:54law against that but what appealing
1:23:57primarily to the purian interest if we
1:23:59have a pride float no nudity no Lea
1:24:02daddies that you're so into that be the
1:24:04Miller test isn't just about appealing
1:24:05to the pran interest though it's a
1:24:07necessary condition right it's a
1:24:08necessary condition along with so then
1:24:10if it's necessary then let's talk about
1:24:11it yeah well okay sure well yeah I think
1:24:13the pride parades again they don't
1:24:15appeal to my pran interest but they do
1:24:17appeal I suspect to the pran interest of
1:24:19the people in the room uh and and
1:24:21they're they're obviously sexual in
1:24:22nature that's the are they sexual in I
1:24:24think so what is pride what does pride
1:24:26celebrate celebr Pride it's a
1:24:28celebration for many of people's
1:24:30marriages that you're saying are invalid
1:24:31which you're right well even even if you
1:24:33want to pretend that that that can be
1:24:34marriage marriage has at a very close
1:24:37part to the center of it sex it's sexual
1:24:40and so you can't have then a public
1:24:42marriage in your wife at the Latin Mass
1:24:44uh we don't no Public public marriages
1:24:46are very good but they they so he can
1:24:48have his public marriage that you said
1:24:49doesn't exist well he can't be married
1:24:51because two men can't marry each other
1:24:53but that's a fault the main
1:24:56here if I have a float no nudity we just
1:24:59have awesome Pride Flags is that being
1:25:02prosecut what what else is occurring
1:25:04there it's just it's just people we're
1:25:05dancing to Lady Gaga doing the splits
1:25:07jumping up and down in the trampoline
1:25:09doing splits okay now we're getting a
1:25:10little bit pring we are R would be upset
1:25:13seriously seriously I mean if you're you
1:25:15know if you're so float with pride flag
1:25:17allowed people are doing uh splits and
1:25:20twerking and I don't know twerk only
1:25:22split splits are trampol is that allow
1:25:25and uh the trampolines are definitely
1:25:26appealing to thean interest I'm not
1:25:28you're dodging the question I have my PR
1:25:31I just told you I would not permit that
1:25:32you would not permit that we doing about
1:25:34the Miller test if we're not if we're
1:25:35talking about
1:25:37if everything you've just described
1:25:39everything you've just descried well you
1:25:40can appeal to the prian interest while
1:25:42still being fully
1:25:43clothed has never been prosecuted that
1:25:46way in precedent when we look at the
1:25:47courts what are you talking about so it
1:25:49going back I mean obviously obscenity
1:25:50law in America goes back to like the
1:25:5117th century and there are all sorts of
1:25:54cases of of of even going back to the
1:25:56Comstock laws of of material that didn't
1:26:00that's the real question if I put a
1:26:01pride flag outside of my house they
1:26:02should be they should be banned
1:26:03certainly at government buildings but I
1:26:04wouldn't I wouldn't come to house I can
1:26:06have a pride I wouldn't take it down but
1:26:07if I were in your HOA I would ban it
1:26:09because it's a very nasty image it's and
1:26:11kids shouldn't have to it's a nasty
1:26:13image of seeing some colors on a flag
1:26:15you're that triggered about talking
1:26:17about you you know a flag is a symbol
1:26:19right that symbolizes something else you
1:26:22understand what a flag is so what does
1:26:23it symbolize it LGBT identity and I
1:26:25don't think that should be waved out in
1:26:27public that shouldn't be waved out in
1:26:28public in any context so our float we
1:26:31take pride Flags off we just say we're
1:26:33gay it's awesome is that being allowed I
1:26:36don't know I think it's kind of weird to
1:26:38go out into the street and start
1:26:40preaching about your sexual desires
1:26:42would you make it illegal well I I'm not
1:26:43my argument isn't that I would change
1:26:45the law to make that illegal my argument
1:26:47is that laws on me saying I'm gay and
1:26:49it's awesome on a street corner uh yeah
1:26:51the the way you're describing it seems
1:26:53kind of obscene we're going to
1:26:54criminally prosecute that yeah you in
1:26:56particular yes me in particular as a
1:26:58prosecutor NOS of the LA District that's
1:27:00right so we're
1:27:03saying pleasure of
1:27:12course uh hm wow it's really I hate to
1:27:15pick I hate to pick favorite I know
1:27:17you're probably my favorite of the whole
1:27:19show I'm so tempted and then of course
1:27:22my uh fellow cast here but I think
1:27:25actually I got to pick Greg Greg I felt
1:27:28you were really digging in in a in a
1:27:31serious way so Greg you're up let's do
1:27:35it my claim is access to gender
1:27:38affirming care for miners should be
1:27:42legal okay why do you think that the
1:27:45global consensus is that when we're
1:27:48talking about gender dysphoria which is
1:27:50again just for anyone who doesn't know I
1:27:51know you know it's the diagnosable
1:27:54medical condition where someone
1:27:56experiences extreme distress as a result
1:27:59of their physical gender related
1:28:02attributes whether that's their
1:28:03genitalia or secondary sexual
1:28:05characteristics like their facial hair
1:28:07um and or the way Society perceives them
1:28:10doesn't match their sense of gender like
1:28:12for me my sense of gender is that I'm a
1:28:14guy and if you look at studies you can
1:28:17find global consensus even more
1:28:19specifically you're talking about the
1:28:20global consensus the global consensus
1:28:21okay so I guess my question then would
1:28:23be there was was a glob certainly a
1:28:25national but but more than National
1:28:26consensus on the positive medical good
1:28:29of lobotomies in the middle of the 20th
1:28:31century there was a medical consensus on
1:28:33the seriousness of phenology and of
1:28:37eugenics for many many decades and those
1:28:40all were proven to be terribly terribly
1:28:42wrong and very harmful to the people on
1:28:44whom uh who had to suffer the
1:28:46experiments so how are you so confident
1:28:49especially in the face of so much
1:28:50medical literature that contradicts your
1:28:52view that that it's uh worthwhile to
1:28:55experiment on these kids today sure um
1:28:57can I get go out that backwards sure all
1:29:00right I don't I'm just a guy he's he's a
1:29:02debat I'm a guy okay um so I think that
1:29:06arguably it is more experimental to deny
1:29:08the care um I think when we look at the
1:29:12history of Medical Care evidencebased
1:29:15Medicine as a concept is actually
1:29:17relatively recent it was starting to be
1:29:19taught in like the ' 80s I think I think
1:29:21that's a modern flat self flattery I
1:29:23don't think that's true I think actually
1:29:25just Wikipedia evidence-based medicine I
1:29:27but I don't get my knowledge from
1:29:29Wikipedia okay uh if you find whatever
1:29:32some know find whatever knowledge is
1:29:34appropriate for you um we had pretty
1:29:36good medicine in the' 60s even the 20s
1:29:39Antiquity the last thing about
1:29:41um I watched have you seen nose Fatu the
1:29:45movie bled people to fix things I don't
1:29:48think medicine's always been great um
1:29:50yeah but I but I think we're doing
1:29:51terrible things like that now like
1:29:53castrating little kids you're referring
1:29:54to castrating little kids are you saying
1:29:56are you Turing to a surgical procedure
1:29:58are you referring to pu block puberty
1:30:00blockers which often lead to permanent
1:30:02sterility and I'm talking they do they
1:30:04do and even the New York Times admitted
1:30:06it so I you know not that I like to cite
1:30:08them but uh that's true and then also
1:30:10just later on uh if if kids go on to to
1:30:13follow through with the transgender
1:30:15procedures they will be sterilized get
1:30:17with with
1:30:18certainty the kid could you explain what
1:30:20that means how how what age are they and
1:30:23how are they foll through the puberty
1:30:25the puberty blockers obviously begin
1:30:26with before puberty and that that that
1:30:28alone that alone can lead to sterility
1:30:31and it can lead to all sorts of other
1:30:32health problems but later on later on in
1:30:34the teenage years one could take cross-
1:30:36seex hormones which have all sorts of
1:30:37terrible health problems associated with
1:30:39them which also can cause sterility okay
1:30:42that's also fact and then and then
1:30:43furthermore if if a a person as at 17 18
1:30:4719 or even later decides to go through
1:30:49with the surgical procedures say a
1:30:51hysterectomy or or any other
1:30:54procedure that by would cility so going
1:30:58going going through that um so I
1:31:00actually in preparation for this video
1:31:03cold called a bunch of doctors I just
1:31:06emailed them and I like zoomed with them
1:31:08and they I also looked at scientific
1:31:10literature directly I actually I'm not
1:31:12involved in medical science but I'm
1:31:14involved in science I presented at
1:31:16scientific conferences I have a paper in
1:31:17peer review right now I've looked
1:31:19directly at this evidence and I have not
1:31:22seen this evidence you're bringing up
1:31:24that puberty blockers cause sterility
1:31:26what I have seen what doctors have told
1:31:28me according to the guidelines from all
1:31:30these major medical associations
1:31:31according to the best practices from
1:31:33these different Children's Hospitals is
1:31:34that when you're put on puberty blockers
1:31:36puberty blockers have already been used
1:31:38for decades for precocious puberty which
1:31:40is another condition there's a lot of
1:31:42evidence on whether or not it causes
1:31:44Harms in general when you stop puberty
1:31:46blockers the puberty resumes and
1:31:48actually that was the claim but that's
1:31:49been disproven and if you if you get
1:31:51your information I'm not doubting that
1:31:53you've called doctors but if you
1:31:54primarily get your information from
1:31:56Wikipedia and glad you're going to get
1:31:57bad information I don't I get my
1:31:59information from PubMed and doctors was
1:32:02just citing places that you had
1:32:03previously mentioned okay you know the
1:32:05world Professional Organization of
1:32:06transgender Health which has which has
1:32:08been thrown uh absolutely out the window
1:32:10for its methodological errors and lies
1:32:13wath I would not say w can you help me
1:32:16understand the conspiracy then because
1:32:18every Major Medical Associate this is
1:32:20not the American s like wath is just an
1:32:22activist group okay
1:32:25I I mentioned this earlier you can go
1:32:26look just woke up glad major medical
1:32:28associations yeah the gay and lesbian
1:32:30Lobby sure is going to advocate for
1:32:31transgender they just have links to all
1:32:33of these medical associations it's not
1:32:35like they you don't how to take the word
1:32:36for it's literally a page that has links
1:32:37to like 30 plus statements they're
1:32:39hosted on the websites of these medical
1:32:41associations right that back up the
1:32:42protrans view right right so it's not
1:32:45the American it's not the American
1:32:46transgender Association it's the
1:32:48American Medical Association we rely on
1:32:50these on on these groups of people for
1:32:53advice on how to treat cancer how to
1:32:54treat depression there are also industry
1:32:56lobbying groups with a lot of political
1:32:58influence and there and there are
1:32:59political Alternatives everything you
1:33:02could every every I'm just I'm just
1:33:04explaining that these are political
1:33:05organizations for any medication there
1:33:07is a profit incentive for a
1:33:09pharmaceutical company to Lobby a
1:33:11medical association like you mean like
1:33:14very expensive cross- sex hormones that
1:33:16people will be hooked on for the rest of
1:33:17their lives from childhood I was picking
1:33:19up medicine I was picking up
1:33:21anti-seizure medicine for my
1:33:22brother-in-law last night and his
1:33:24insurance didn't go through and they
1:33:26said for a 20-day Supply it's $4,000
1:33:28there's a lot it's it's a problem I
1:33:30think so do you agree that medicine
1:33:32should be cheaper I yeah I'd like for
1:33:34medicine to be cheaper but I think wait
1:33:36we can agree on that he says medicine
1:33:38should be
1:33:39cheaper I think you're making my point
1:33:41which is that there are really perverse
1:33:43medical incentives for groups even we
1:33:45saw this at one of the children's
1:33:47transgender clinics that was closed in
1:33:48the United States that that was
1:33:50acknowledging on camera that when you
1:33:53when you put a kid down these procedures
1:33:55you are making a lot of money for the
1:33:57hospital and for the pharmaceutical
1:33:58industry because you're hooking them on
1:33:59very very expensive drugs for the rest
1:34:01of their lives and that's the kind of
1:34:02prefers incentive that you're talking
1:34:03about so you're is but isn't that true
1:34:05for any medicine some some more than
1:34:07others so why why what is this is what
1:34:09I'm trying to understand so are you just
1:34:11saying that we shouldn't trust medical
1:34:13associations why is it one thing because
1:34:15these incentives you're outlining apply
1:34:17to All Medical Care in this case I'm
1:34:18trusting the American Journal of
1:34:20Psychiatry I'm testing now the the
1:34:22Health Services of of the United Kingdom
1:34:24in Sweden and Finland I'm trusting all
1:34:26sorts I'm trusting the New York Times
1:34:28for goodness Sak in its review of aund
1:34:30review of 100 studies when we spoke
1:34:31earlier you didn't even know what the
1:34:32cast review found you told I certainly
1:34:34did I absolutely did told me you said I
1:34:37said that it banned the puberty blockers
1:34:38for kids and you said well it restricted
1:34:40them which are practically synonymous no
1:34:42you didn't you didn't I my sense was you
1:34:44did you weren't very familiar with this
1:34:46but a lot of people keep talking about
1:34:48my sense I don't know like I come here I
1:34:50I I refer to these medical papers and
1:34:52everyone says well but I just sense that
1:34:54you want to like kill people or whatever
1:34:55I'm sorry you feel that way I'm sorry we
1:34:57triggered you yeah no my facts
1:34:59unfortunately don't care about your
1:35:01feelings what facts are you bringing up
1:35:02your facts is that you sense that I
1:35:04don't know I've cited you I've cited you
1:35:06probably two dozen academic papers do
1:35:08you know how many biomedical papers are
1:35:10published per year on this subject how
1:35:13many generally how many on this subject
1:35:16generally a mil how many on this subject
1:35:19you don't know either a lot more than 12
1:35:21you don't know either well here's the
1:35:22thing like do you think that all of
1:35:24these major medical associations do you
1:35:26think that all of the reports that I've
1:35:27cited are just false do you think the
1:35:28New York Times is just lying when it
1:35:30says the puberty blockers can't be
1:35:31reverse I don't care about the New York
1:35:32Times do you care about I like their
1:35:34cooking recipes why you keep bring up
1:35:36the New York Times you're making me
1:35:37hungry okay my my my point here is when
1:35:41you do like a like a meta analysis or a
1:35:43systematic review or you get you know a
1:35:45panel of experts you mean you don't have
1:35:48access to secret special information
1:35:50that they don't have access to so why
1:35:52are they all all these again dozens of
1:35:55medical associations but you're
1:35:56misrepresenting this because you're
1:35:58ignoring the largest data sets on
1:35:59transgender Health you're ignoring the
1:36:01largest scientific and popular
1:36:03Publications and you're saying yeah well
1:36:04wpath which is a protrans advocacy group
1:36:07thinks that trans and the kids is great
1:36:08and I'm sure they do and I'm sure there
1:36:10are other medical associations that have
1:36:11been promoting that too although fewer
1:36:13and fewer as time goes on because the
1:36:15longer term effects of the transgender
1:36:17procedures on kids are coming to pass
1:36:19and you're seeing more cases of regret
1:36:21and you're seeing that the suicide rates
1:36:23don't decline
1:36:26deat so I didn't just mention that one
1:36:30organization um I actually would love to
1:36:33clear that up for you about the suicide
1:36:35rates um first of all I want to
1:36:37disambiguate detransition and surgery
1:36:39regret so D transition typically happens
1:36:43when people are not it's not that they
1:36:44internally change it's external
1:36:47pressures like social stigma or familial
1:36:50you know being rejected by your family
1:36:52lead people to walk back their
1:36:55transition not the not the D
1:36:56transitioners I've talked to and I've
1:36:57talked to a number of well that's why
1:36:58you can't just talk to people that's why
1:37:00we have to do science and evidence but
1:37:02you kept telling me to focus on
1:37:03anecdotes and not scien studies that I
1:37:05don't think I ever said that I think
1:37:07you're confusing me with another very
1:37:08handsome person here it's my looks um
1:37:11okay so um my my point is the thank you
1:37:17thank you everyone okay so D transition
1:37:19is what I just said yeah I don't think
1:37:21that's true though I think that's just a
1:37:22thing you're saying thank you for thank
1:37:24you for standing for the record that you
1:37:25don't think is true moving on um surgery
1:37:29regret is typically it's not when
1:37:31someone like re regrets their identity
1:37:33it's usually when there is something
1:37:36like cosmetic or functional about the
1:37:37result of the
1:37:39surgery that's a cliffhanger to hang on
1:37:42part
1:37:43two yeah all right nice to meet you
1:37:49pleasure this format is great I love
1:37:51this and I'm just irritated that we
1:37:52didn't think of this first do this your
1:37:54ourselves some of the interlocutors are
1:37:56a little more serious than others but I
1:37:58I really liked chatting with all of them
1:38:00and they have a great deal of my
1:38:02sympathy I think Michael noes is
1:38:04annoying to be quite honest
1:38:06disrespectful and kind of unintelligent
1:38:08I think he's aing Nazi the way that they
1:38:12usually dishonestly present My Views is
1:38:14that I hate them or that I want to kill
1:38:16them or something like that which I
1:38:17don't I've explicitly said that I don't
1:38:20they say oh well we don't want people to
1:38:22die but they know damn well that the
1:38:25suicide rid Skyrocket the second you
1:38:27remove access to gender affirming care
1:38:29my favorite conversation occurred with
1:38:31Blossom because I was not really
1:38:33required to speak at all for that
1:38:35conversation and it made my job much
1:38:37easier uh but he was a nice fellow he
1:38:40just kept talking over me it was just
1:38:42like I got to get in there I don't care
1:38:44I'm a black transom I'm a Powerhouse
1:38:46he's going to listen to me and so I just
1:38:48went forward I really liked Greg because
1:38:51he was respectful and at least to some
1:38:52degree listen listening to what the
1:38:54other person was saying however the flaw
1:38:56in his argument was that he was
1:38:58grounding his understanding of the truth
1:39:00and even of medicine on consensus and of
1:39:03course the truth is not necessarily
1:39:04found by means of consensus that was one
1:39:07of the most horrific experiences I've
1:39:09ever had talking to another human being
1:39:11I'm very glad I did it and I'm never
1:39:13doing it again Mason who kept calling me
1:39:15Mindy I felt he was not really engaged
1:39:19in our conversation yeah Michael's a
1:39:21clown I've talked to Ben I've talked to
1:39:23Charlie Kirk I've talked to a lot of
1:39:25conservative figures and he is the worst
1:39:28at having some sort of cohesive argument
1:39:30all he tries to do is push people's
1:39:32buttons to get these emotional responses
1:39:34that then he can turn into those viral
1:39:36Clips I admire The Bravery of every
1:39:40transgender person that came here today
1:39:42I would just say that trans women are
1:39:44women and belong in all women spaces I
1:39:46think that if you went out of your Loop
1:39:48a little bit and you got to know us as
1:39:50people one-on-one you would change how
1:39:52you feel about overall I don't care what
1:39:54Donald Trump and his administration
1:39:56think they're going to do the reality is
1:39:58we're going to always be here we're
1:40:00going to live in society so as a matter
1:40:02of the law we have to accept certain
1:40:04things you know either women can have
1:40:06their own bathrooms or they can't we're
1:40:07at a moment now of particular confusion
1:40:10and I think we should ditch it CU
1:40:11everyone's getting unhappy when you're
1:40:13going down the wrong path the real
1:40:16Progressive is the one who stops and
1:40:18turns around and goes back in the other
1:40:20direction

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