Michael Jackson 2005 Trial, Day 2, Part 2 | Martin Bashir — Transcript

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1. 0:03all right is there a stipulation reached
2. 0:06yes your honor between counsel
3. 0:09yes your honor
4. 0:11would you state briefly state the
5. 0:13stipulation
6. 0:15yes your honor the stipulation is that
7. 0:17there are certain exhibits lodged with
8. 0:19the court in connection with the grand
9. 0:21jury proceedings and there's a
10. 0:22stipulation that those exhibits can be
11. 0:24released to us to the people and that
12. 0:26for mutual use by both sides
13. 0:30so stipulated your honor
14. 0:32i'll approve that stipulation and
15. 0:34release the exhibits
16. 0:36thank you your honor
17. 0:38leslie is the unit on here is this on
18. 0:42you need to
19. 0:44no i just asked if the
20. 0:46it takes about 10 seconds to heat up
21. 0:50you may call your first witness
22. 0:52thank you your honor call martin bashir
23. 0:55mr bashir come forward please
24. 0:58come forward to the witness stand and
25. 1:01when you get to the witness stand remain
26. 1:03standing face the clerk here raise your
27. 1:06right hand
28. 1:11i do
29. 1:12please be seated state and spell your
30. 1:14name for the record
31. 1:16my name is martin bashir m-a-r-t-i-n
32. 1:20surname b-a-s as in sugar h-i-r
33. 1:27mr bashir i'm going to ask you if you'd
34. 1:29scoot a little closer to that microphone
35. 1:32if you can
36. 1:33i'm not particularly tall i'm sorry
37. 1:36that's all right mr bashir what is your
38. 1:39profession or occupation
39. 1:41i'm a television journalist
40. 1:43and how long have you been involved in
41. 1:45that occupation
42. 1:47i've been involved in journalism for 20
43. 1:49years and i've been a television
44. 1:50journalist for around 18 years
45. 1:53could you just
46. 1:55somehow you need to get closer to that
47. 1:57mic can you swing it towards you a
48. 1:59little bit
49. 2:00it's bolted down
50. 2:02it moves this way
51. 2:04i'm sorry
52. 2:06okay
53. 2:07sorry
54. 2:08you'll have to move to it it doesn't
55. 2:11i'm sorry i've been working as a
56. 2:13journalist for 20 years and i've been
57. 2:15working as a television journalist for
58. 2:17around 18 years
59. 2:19tell us a little bit to the ladies and
60. 2:21gentlemen of the jury if you would a
61. 2:23little bit about what a television
62. 2:25journalist does
63. 2:27a television journalist is somebody who
64. 2:29performs the task of journalism which is
65. 2:31in effect to report to research to
66. 2:34investigate to report stories
67. 2:36the distinction would be that a
68. 2:37television journalist as opposed to a
69. 2:39newspaper journalist would use the
70. 2:41medium of television so that when i
71. 2:43started my career i would write for
72. 2:45newspapers do stories for newspapers did
73. 2:47some sports reporting some general news
74. 2:50and then when i moved on to television
75. 2:52it was the same core task of reporting
76. 2:54but it was done using the medium of
77. 2:56television
78. 2:58and then how does the profession how
79. 3:00does the way that you practice that
80. 3:01profession differ if it doesn't any
81. 3:03respect from those that we see on the
82. 3:05nightly network news stations reporting
83. 3:07the news as a journalist
84. 3:09there would be no distinction as to what
85. 3:11i'm doing i'm covering stories and
86. 3:13reporting i suppose the distinction
87. 3:15would be that news journalists would
88. 3:17tend to file shorter reports
89. 3:19my career has tended to be fixed around
90. 3:21long-form films i mean by the
91. 3:23documentaries half-hour one hour and in
92. 3:26some cases two-hour films current
93. 3:28affairs programmes
94. 3:30so i would tend to be described in the
95. 3:31united kingdom as a current affairs
96. 3:33specialist somebody who does long-form
97. 3:35film as opposed to nightly news
98. 3:38now in the practice of your profession
99. 3:40where is it that you've worked
100. 3:41professionally
101. 3:43as a television journalist yes sir
102. 3:47i began at the bbc with what we call
103. 3:49regional broadcasting
104. 3:51that would be like a local affiliate to
105. 3:53you
106. 3:54now what is the bbc
107. 3:56the bbc is the british broadcasting
108. 3:58corporation it is a state-funded
109. 4:01broadcasting organization which does
110. 4:02everything from drama comedy to news and
111. 4:05current affairs light entertainment
112. 4:07music and i joined a local regional
113. 4:09station in london covering news that was
114. 4:11breaking in london
115. 4:12i did that for three years then after
116. 4:15that i was promoted to a network
117. 4:17position on a current affairs program
118. 4:18called public eye
119. 4:20and there i did a variety of domestic
120. 4:22stories everything ranging from car
121. 4:24crime to stories about violent attacks
122. 4:26and racist attacks on immigrant groups
123. 4:28in london
124. 4:29after that i did that for about three
125. 4:31years and then after that i moved on to
126. 4:33a programme called panorama and that was
127. 4:35in 1992.
128. 4:37panorama is the bbc's flagship current
129. 4:39affairs program and whilst on that
130. 4:41programme i did a number of important
131. 4:43stories and the first film i did for
132. 4:45panorama was actually a film about
133. 4:47allegations of satanic abuse
134. 4:49i did a film which investigated whether
135. 4:51there was such a thing
136. 4:53there was so-called satanic covens
137. 4:56objection narrative
138. 4:58sustained
139. 5:00in the year of 2002 excuse me just a
140. 5:02second
141. 5:03brief interruption
142. 5:05all right mr bashir let's jump forward
143. 5:08in your career to the year 2002 if we
144. 5:10could
145. 5:12shul
146. 5:13where were you employed professionally
147. 5:15in the year 2002
148. 5:17i was employed by the united kingdom's
149. 5:19biggest commercial television network
150. 5:21itv
151. 5:23and what does itv stand for
152. 5:26independent television
153. 5:27and in connection with your professional
154. 5:29responsibilities there did you do video
155. 5:31documentaries
156. 5:33what do you mean by video documentaries
157. 5:37all right then obviously you didn't if
158. 5:39you don't know what it's called
159. 5:40when you do programs what do you call
160. 5:42them
161. 5:43i call them films
162. 5:45films
163. 5:47yeah current affairs films
164. 5:49current affairs films so we can talk
165. 5:51about the same thing
166. 5:53now could you give me just two or three
167. 5:55or maybe four just by name of
168. 5:57individuals that you've done current
169. 5:59affairs films for over the years
170. 6:02sure i did a one-hour special on a
171. 6:04notorious serial killer called harold
172. 6:06shipman who is alleged to have murdered
173. 6:08273 people and was found guilty in court
174. 6:11and in fact committed suicide quite
175. 6:13recently
176. 6:14i did an hour on that i did a special
177. 6:16hour on an extraordinary story featuring
178. 6:18a maltese couple who came to the united
179. 6:20kingdom and the mother was
180. 6:22objection relevance
181. 6:25the qualifications is overruled
182. 6:28did you do a current affairs piece on
183. 6:29princess diana
184. 6:31i did yeah that was not in 2002 that was
185. 6:35in 1995.
186. 6:37all right so you did do that
187. 6:40i did
188. 6:41and how long was that production
189. 6:43i think the total duration was around an
190. 6:45hour and 50 minutes an hour and 45
191. 6:48minutes
192. 6:49all right now in connection with your
193. 6:51current affairs occupation or business
194. 6:53during the year 2000 did you do a
195. 6:55current affairs film on the defendant in
196. 6:57this case michael jackson
197. 7:00i did
198. 7:01and could you tell me when it was that
199. 7:03you commenced that in what year
200. 7:052002
201. 7:07and when did you finish it
202. 7:09the broadcast date was the third of
203. 7:11february 2003
204. 7:14when did you actually complete the
205. 7:15project the filming of it
206. 7:18the filming of it i think the last day
207. 7:20of filming was the 14th of january 2003
208. 7:23in miami
209. 7:25now during the time and you have let me
210. 7:27ask you this did you review the actual
211. 7:30film that was used in connection with
212. 7:31the broadcast you just mentioned in
213. 7:33great britain
214. 7:35i'm sorry what do you mean did i review
215. 7:37it
216. 7:39the one that was shown on the television
217. 7:41excuse me let me just go back for a
218. 7:43second if we can
219. 7:45what was the name of the program in
220. 7:46which the current affairs film on the
221. 7:48defendant in this case mr jackson was
222. 7:51shown in the united kingdom
223. 7:53it was titled living with michael
224. 7:55jackson
225. 7:56and what program was it connected with
226. 7:58some individual program or just
227. 8:02it was made by a team the current
228. 8:04affairs team that supplied the weekly
229. 8:05output for itv was called tonight
230. 8:08the show was called tonight
231. 8:11that's what i was after what the show
232. 8:12was called
233. 8:14forgive me i'm sorry the program itself
234. 8:17because it was longer than a normal
235. 8:18tonight show was actually broadcast on a
236. 8:21different night in the evening for a
237. 8:22longer duration so it was given its own
238. 8:24specific title for that reason
239. 8:27all right your honor at this time i have
240. 8:29two exhibits i'd like to have marked as
241. 8:31peoples 1 and peoples 2 for
242. 8:32identification purposes
243. 8:35actually if you would excuse me i will
244. 8:37make my way over to the clerk
245. 8:39off the record discussion held at
246. 8:40council table
247. 8:42your honour the exhibits that i've just
248. 8:44had the clerk mark for identification
249. 8:46purposes people's one is a custodian of
250. 8:48the records declaration from a philip
251. 8:50lund l-u-n-t from granada productions as
252. 8:53the declarant as the custodian
253. 8:56and the second exhibit is the i'm
254. 8:58opening the package and removing from it
255. 8:59the film
256. 9:00that's been marked as people's exhibit
257. 9:02number two which according to the
258. 9:04authentication is a copy of the program
259. 9:06that was shown in great britain on
260. 9:08february the 3rd so i'd like to have
261. 9:10both of these moved into evidence as
262. 9:12peoples 1 and 2 and i intend to then
263. 9:14show the video to the jury
264. 9:16all right there admitted
265. 9:19mr bashir one last question before we
266. 9:21actually show the video
267. 9:23during the time that you were in
268. 9:25production of the video living with
269. 9:26michael jackson were you aware of the
270. 9:28fact that mr jackson also had one of his
271. 9:31videographers accompanying you during
272. 9:32the filming of your footage
273. 9:35objection your honor i should probably
274. 9:37introduce myself i'm mr bashir's counsel
275. 9:40theodore j buttress jr and i'm joined
276. 9:43here today by henry hoberman who is a
277. 9:45senior vice president and the head of
278. 9:47litigation for abc news and pursuant to
279. 9:49the court's prior order i'm going to
280. 9:51object to this question on the grounds
281. 9:53that it calls for unpublished
282. 9:55information that's protected by the
283. 9:56california constitution's journalist
284. 9:58shield law which is meant to protect the
285. 10:00independence of journalists from being
286. 10:02called to testify and i'd like to renew
287. 10:05our objection to mr bashir being called
288. 10:07today and also would rely on the first
289. 10:09amendment first amendment privilege for
290. 10:11journalists
291. 10:12thank you your honor
292. 10:14mr bhutras the objection you raise it's
293. 10:17not a privilege
294. 10:19it's a shield from contempt so from the
295. 10:21standpoint of sustaining your objection
296. 10:24i won't sustain the objection
297. 10:26the question's been asked are you going
298. 10:28to answer the question
299. 10:31your honor the first amendment privilege
300. 10:33is a privilege so i would request that
301. 10:35the court enforce that privilege
302. 10:37this is unpublished information gathered
303. 10:39in the news gathering process and it's
304. 10:41important for journalists to have that
305. 10:43freedom to gather news and report it
306. 10:44without intrusion of the courts
307. 10:47and i would ask the court to enforce the
308. 10:48first amendment privilege
309. 10:50we have great respect for the court and
310. 10:52don't want to go into contempt but we
311. 10:54would ask the court to preclude that
312. 10:56type of questioning
313. 10:57and based on some of the arguments i'm
314. 10:59concerned that this will become a side
315. 11:01issue and it could really do harm to the
316. 11:03ability of journalists to gather
317. 11:05information that's of important public
318. 11:07interest and concern and disseminate it
319. 11:08to the public
320. 11:10so i'd ask the court to at this point
321. 11:12limit the questioning to published
322. 11:13information and background information
323. 11:15about mr bashir on both sides because
324. 11:17i'm concerned about where the
325. 11:20the rights are different on both sides
326. 11:23they are your honor and in fact it's an
327. 11:25absolute privilege with respect to yes
328. 11:28it's an absolute privilege with respect
329. 11:30to the district attorney and on that
330. 11:32ground i would ask the court to enforce
331. 11:34it absolutely and preclude this question
332. 11:36and mr jackson's lawyers have not made
333. 11:38any showing thus far that they have any
334. 11:40ability
335. 11:42true we're not at that issue
336. 11:45okay thank you your honor
337. 11:47the question though has been asked the
338. 11:50objection is overruled and i'm asking
339. 11:53the witness if he's going to answer the
340. 11:55question would you like it read back to
341. 11:57you
342. 11:58i would yes
343. 12:00thank you record read
344. 12:02the answer to the question is yes but
345. 12:04the individual concerned
346. 12:07objection
347. 12:08only filmed on two occasions
348. 12:11wait you answered the question and
349. 12:13there's an objection
350. 12:15the question is answered
351. 12:17okay
352. 12:18and the answer was yes
353. 12:21okay your honor i understand you have a
354. 12:23button that has to be activated before
355. 12:25we can show the vcr
356. 12:27that's true
357. 12:29and my second question is your honor we
358. 12:31do have a transcript of this if in the
359. 12:33court's discretion you would like to
360. 12:35have the jurors have them at this time
361. 12:37if not that's fine
362. 12:39because i'm not sure at this point that
363. 12:41the transcripts are transcripts of this
364. 12:43and you couldn't make that
365. 12:44representation to me i'm not going to
366. 12:47allow the transcript to be passed around
367. 12:50that's perfectly understandable your
368. 12:52honor all right
369. 12:54now i think i pushed the right button
370. 12:57could i make a request would it be
371. 12:59possible for mr bashir to come down so
372. 13:02he can watch the broadcast rather than i
373. 13:04can vacate my seat if that would
374. 13:07oh yeah absolutely but i didn't want to
375. 13:10have him come down yet until we're sure
376. 13:12that i think we're at that point
377. 13:15no problem
378. 13:17if i may lodge an objection your honor
379. 13:19no transcripts
380. 13:21the rules of court require them before
381. 13:23you show a tape
382. 13:24audio tape they require them on
383. 13:27videotape
384. 13:28i believe so your honor they also
385. 13:31require that the jury have the
386. 13:32transcript i don't think that's the case
387. 13:36i thought that what it required was that
388. 13:38the record on appeal requires a
389. 13:39transcript not that it's required at the
390. 13:41time
391. 13:43you have to lodge the tape with the
392. 13:44court which i didn't prevent him from
393. 13:46doing he wanted to hand the jurors
394. 13:49copies and you weren't in chambers but
395. 13:52it was represented in chambers that he
396. 13:53hasn't had the opportunity to compare
397. 13:55his transcript to this tape
398. 13:58so i'm not you know i'm not having that
399. 14:01i wouldn't want to hand it to the jury
400. 14:02at this point
401. 14:04because it just got here
402. 14:07yeah this tape just got to my office
403. 14:09last friday
404. 14:11yes sir at the court
405. 14:13could i request your honor that we get a
406. 14:16copy of their transcript
407. 14:18certainly
408. 14:20thank you
409. 14:21now i'm going to let mr bashir sit down
410. 14:24if you're sure you don't have any other
411. 14:26questions to ask him
412. 14:28i better quit while i'm ahead your honor
413. 14:31i guess we'll have mr bashir come down
414. 14:33here i'll give him my chair and he can
415. 14:35watch
416. 14:36i can't see is there any rome there's
417. 14:39someone nodding affirmatively he can sit
418. 14:41next to that individual mr bashir you
419. 14:45may step down now
420. 14:47thank you
421. 14:48just to be clear too this is mr hoberman
422. 14:51who i identified in passing
423. 14:54good morning your honor
424. 14:56the individual shaking his head was
425. 14:58co-counsel
426. 15:00good morning your honor
427. 15:02good morning whenever you're ready i
428. 15:04have a button here that also allows me
429. 15:06to have the screen go blank and if
430. 15:08council is concerned any of the
431. 15:10attorneys is concerned huh
432. 15:13i thought you were still talking
433. 15:16if you're concerned tell me and just say
434. 15:18blanket and i'll do that
435. 15:21all right
436. 15:22that would only be because it shows
437. 15:24something i don't anticipate
438. 15:26whereupon a portion of a videotape
439. 15:29people's exhibit number two was played
440. 15:31for the court and jury
441. 15:34you know would you hold it a second
442. 15:36there's one admonition that i want to
443. 15:38make to the jury before we watch this
444. 15:40and i'm going to give you a more
445. 15:42detailed instruction on this later but i
446. 15:44just want to prepare you for this right
447. 15:46now
448. 15:47that the video of living with michael
449. 15:49jackson which is this video at this
450. 15:51point has not offered for the truth of
451. 15:53anything said or shown in the program
452. 15:55with the exception of certain passages
453. 15:57that will later be identified
454. 16:00you will receive additional instruction
455. 16:02with regard to these identified passages
456. 16:05the rest of the contents of the video as
457. 16:07hearsay and not and cannot be considered
458. 16:09by you to prove anything other than the
459. 16:11fact that the program aired in february
460. 16:13of 2003.
461. 16:15you may now go forward
462. 16:17your honor we're ready
463. 16:19yes whereupon a portion of a videotape
464. 16:23people's exhibit number 2 was played for
465. 16:25the court and jury
466. 16:28there's about a 30-second break your
467. 16:30honor or 45 seconds
468. 16:32thank you
469. 16:34we're missing the commercials
470. 16:36your honor i can try and fast forward
471. 16:38through this if you'd like
472. 16:40whatever you'd like whereupon a portion
473. 16:43of a videotape people's exhibit number
474. 16:46two was played for the court and jury
475. 16:49well it's almost time for the 11 30
476. 16:52break so let's take the 11 30 break