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Michael Bachner & Jesse Weber Tak Nicholas Godejohn Trial & Chris Watts Sentencing — Transcript

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0:00okay we're starting from the beginning
0:01and let's start from the beginning right
0:02now joining me as a special guest here
0:04on the network I haven't been on with
0:06him before so I'm happy he's here now
0:07criminal defense attorney Michael
0:09Bachner Michael great to see you
0:10pleasure so what on earth do you think
0:13it's like to defend a case like this
0:15with so many moving parts well job of
0:18the prosecute the job of the defense
0:20lawyer rather is to try and comprar
0:22mentalize your arguments in a way where
0:24you can really focus them and get the
0:26jury to really understand what that
0:28initial argument is some defense lawyers
0:30feel in cases where it's difficult to
0:31defend they use that old shotgun
0:32approach where they throw a lot of stuff
0:35up and hope jurors go back there and
0:36start arguing with each other and create
0:37reasonable doubts or you can try and
0:39create them but case like this it's very
0:41important in my opinion to focus the
0:43argument on really what you believe that
0:45reasonable doubt is really get your
0:47evidence in order hone in on it and in
0:49this case it would be there be the
0:50autistic condition of one of the
0:52individuals the Munchausen's related
0:54issues related with with DD and to
0:58really demonstrate that this was a woman
1:00as far as DD is concerned who was under
1:01an enormous amount of of pressures and
1:04and Gipsy etcetera what those
1:06relationships are and as far as the
1:07autistic issues to really try and create
1:09those doubts the scatter a scatter board
1:11approach is not going to work in a case
1:12like this a tough job for the defense
1:14attorney but let's kind of see what
1:16they're up against so we played a little
1:18bit of the prosecution's opening
1:19statement let's continue on okay
1:23important point here and I want to make
1:25sure we get this Michael the idea that
1:26the prosecution is saying really he
1:29deliberated on this for about a year do
1:32you believe based upon what you've seen
1:33in this case that's an accurate
1:35statement that he deliberated on and for
1:37quite some time are they really making a
1:39strong argument by saying this is
1:41first-degree murder because he did have
1:44the opportunity to make a different
1:45choice and did it or is the one who play
1:47the defense's opening statement a minute
1:49but I'm curious are they articulating a
1:50strong point there well the idea of
1:52showing premeditation is obviously very
1:54important in trying to demonstrate a
1:55first-degree offense premeditation
1:58though and the judge will instruct us
1:59that the jury can be formed in the
2:01matter of seconds so the fact that it's
2:03been going on arguably for a year I
2:05think is important to dust of all rebut
2:08any proposition that this was some type
2:10of the
2:10the impact of some type of impulsive
2:13mental disorder as compared to a really
2:15premeditative type of issue and this was
2:17an individual who would ever disorder he
2:19may have had really did not have any
2:21problem with him forming the
2:23premeditation so I think it's important
2:25for the prosecution to show that in
2:27order to rebut the idea that this is
2:28going to be some impact of some type of
2:30autistic disorder that now this is a guy
2:33who may who may have been somewhere on
2:34the spectrum but this was premeditated
2:36careful behavior by him that lasted a
2:39very long time and he could have backed
2:41out he could have changed he could have
2:42done a lot of other things and the
2:43defense is about to argue that look he
2:45has diminished capacity he cannot form
2:47the requisite intent necessary for
2:50first-degree murder now let's hear how
2:52they articulated that in their opening
2:54statement take a look let's really ask
2:58the million-dollar question here Michael
2:59okay have you ever seen a successful
3:03defense where the defense is my client
3:06was a autistic he is on the spectrum or
3:10she is autistic and on the spectrum and
3:11therefore you jurors should find this
3:14person not guilty because if you look at
3:17the intent necessary if you look at the
3:18elements of this crime they could not
3:21form that intent they could not have the
3:23mental capacity to commit this crime
3:24have you ever seen that work and never
3:26be successful I haven't seen it work as
3:29far as an autistic defense is concerned
3:31and the insanity defense generally
3:33contrary to public perception works less
3:36than 5% of the time juries routinely
3:39reject situations in which defendants
3:42raise mental capacity issues we still
3:44live in a world where people kind of
3:45think you know take responsibility for
3:46your conduct and I've been involved in
3:48cases in seen cases in which the
3:50behavior of the defendant has been just
3:53so extreme so crazy and juries have
3:55still rejected it so this is a very very
3:58hard argument to make particularly when
4:00you have a functioning individual and
4:02you can be autistic and hold a job you
4:05can be autistic and do a lot of things
4:07that require deliberation and content
4:09and knowledge so you have to demonstrate
4:10that the nature of the mental illness is
4:13so severe that you could not either
4:15distinguish between right and wrong or
4:17appreciate the wrongfulness of your
4:18conduct that is a very very high
4:20standard were you surprised
4:22when you see this case and yes there
4:24were mental health professionals that
4:25were called to talk about autism in the
4:28spectrum but I personally didn't see
4:31family and friends of Nicholas go to
4:33John come on to the stand and say any
4:35difficulties he had in his life or how
4:37he wasn't able to function you know in
4:40society as other people would and and
4:42the fact that maybe you didn't see that
4:44I'm curious what you thought of that
4:45because there are that's their defense
4:47it's interesting sometimes defense
4:50lawyers don't want to take the chance of
4:53putting on a lay witness that a person
4:54who's not an expert to testify to things
4:57that could kind of muck things up where
5:01you have an expert saying something
5:03sometimes you put a lay witness on all
5:04the sudden through cross-examination
5:05they start saying things that you regret
5:07yeah that's a good point all right we
5:09have a lot more to cover in this case
5:11we're gonna talk more about nicholas go
5:12to john right after this break crime
5:20scenes photos really do tell a story and
5:23back here with michael Bachner to ask
5:24really a different question though what
5:26is the defense's ultimate goal here were
5:29never they conceded the fact he
5:31committed this killing but they're
5:33arguing that he was manipulated by gypsy
5:36blanchard so what would be their
5:37ultimate goal is to get a not guilty
5:39verdict well i think the ultimate goal
5:41really here's a diminished capacity type
5:43of defense that is you're trying to get
5:45a reduction in the in the level of
5:47culpability and the level of
5:50responsibility of a defendant by arguing
5:52that although he may have committed the
5:53conduct because of some mental
5:55impairment whether it's alcohol
5:57sometimes whether it's drugs etc that
6:00that reduced his ability to form the
6:03requisite intent to act intentionally
6:04but it did not and it reduces it to the
6:06level where he may have acted either
6:08negligently carelessly or recklessly
6:10reducing the level of exposure that the
6:12defendant has in a criminal case but
6:14they would also be happy with hey at the
6:15jury they can convince the jury this is
6:17a pretty sympathetic guy he's the victim
6:19in this case then hey you if you find
6:20him not guilty of anything that would be
6:21great because the end of the day the
6:23question is who's the victim here is it
6:25nicholas go to john is it gypsy
6:27Blanchard is it DeeDee Blanchard was it
6:29everybody let's play now though in case
6:32you missed it
6:33is the forensic investigator from the
6:35medical examiner's office who's going to
6:36talk about the wounds sustained by Dede
6:39Blanchard and this also tells a story
6:43take a look
6:45miss Blanche Art's back taken from the
6:48right side and there are numbers there
6:53what are those
6:56dr. Harkey numbered each wound and this
7:01shows the numbers 1 through 14 for the
7:05stab wounds on the back and those 14
7:11wounds there on the back were there
7:14certain ones that caused significantly
7:17more damage than others of these wounds
7:21wound number three number five Number
7:27six number seven number 12 and number 14
7:33penetrated into the chest cavity and a
7:38couple of them on into the abdominal
7:40cavity of miss Blanche art and it can go
7:44ahead and flip the stage 41
7:49this is a photograph that I initial when
7:54I circled those six wounds these are
7:58pretty brutal wounds I don't want to
8:00talk about it Michael the idea of I mean
8:02we knew that he stabbed her does it
8:05matter
8:05how he stabbed her how many times where
8:08he stabbed her does that is that a
8:10really big factor when you're talking
8:12about first-degree murder
8:13well it's interesting sometimes one or
8:16two stabs may indicate that a person
8:18just acted out of some impulse and there
8:21was oh my god and stopped it could
8:23indicate that the person was very good
8:24at what they did and it didn't have to
8:26stab very much more and they were just
8:27experts in doing it so one or two could
8:29indicate a good premeditation but
8:31oftentimes how many times you stab could
8:34indicate whether you're acting and some
8:36crazy impulse whether it's some heat of
8:38anger that you couldn't control yourself
8:39so and the angle of the wound could
8:42indicate whether the person was acting
8:45in a defensive fashion or was acting in
8:47an aggressive fashion so all of these
8:49all of these the number of wounds the
8:51angle of the wounds how often the wounds
8:52came between each other even the even
8:54the space between the wounds these are
8:57all indicative of things that experts
8:58look at in determining things but you
9:01know the wounds weren't the only thing
9:02that we learned about at the actual
9:03crime we know that when Gipsy Blanchard
9:05testified she said that go to John asked
9:09if she wanted him to rape her mother
9:10what so the idea that he wanted to do
9:14that or came up with that idea what did
9:16you make of that well it certainly
9:18indicates a level of a level of evilness
9:22of my mind a level of thought that this
9:26is not just an impulsive individual
9:28killing someone but out to really
9:31inflict
9:32other types of conduct and it's what's
9:35also weird is the fact that you're
9:37comfortable asking her this question
9:39that's the most bizarre aspect of it all
9:42listen we got to hit a quick break but
9:43when we come back a lot more to discuss
9:45with Michael we'll be right back all
9:48[Music]
9:50right so that was the cab driver that
9:53actually dropped off Nicholas go to John
9:55at gypsies house and we know what
9:57happened then he ultimately stabbed her
9:58to death
9:59DeeDee Blanchard of course I'm talking
10:00about but Michael I gotta ask you this
10:03we can't talk about this case without
10:04focusing on gypsy Blanchard who was an
10:07active participant in this and we
10:09believe that she was in the bathroom
10:10while the stabbing actually occurred she
10:12heard it go down if she went to trial we
10:15all know that she pled guilty to
10:17second-degree murder faces ten years in
10:19prison might actually be up for parole
10:20in 2021 if she took this to trial would
10:23she have a successful defense that my
10:26mother suffered from munchausen syndrome
10:28by proxy I was the victim of being
10:31confined to a wheelchair forced to shave
10:33my head I was improperly malnourished
10:35I'm the victim of child abuse I had to
10:38get free of her this is the only way
10:40well you know it's kind of the defense
10:42that in the old days the battered woman
10:44defense for battered husband defense
10:46where someone felt that the only way out
10:47of this horrible situation was to kill
10:50the spouse that's a very difficult
10:52defense to propose because jurors look
10:54at injured and judges instruct the jury
10:56about the ability the level of duress
10:59can you get out do you have an ability
11:00to call law enforcement and there is a
11:02good amount of premeditation even by her
11:05hear after the murders committed they
11:07emptied the safe and they do a lot of
11:09other stuff kind of consistent with
11:11someone who's acting out of perhaps a
11:14financial motive and other types of
11:16motives not necessarily a Munchausen by
11:18proxy situation it would be a very
11:20varied in my opinion a very difficult
11:22I'm defense for further proposed even
11:24never the Menendez brothers where you
11:26had all this information about sexual
11:28abuse and battery etc and we saw had
11:30that verdict done certainly initially
11:31when a jury can only take so much and
11:34what we're talking about right now is
11:35the premeditation aspect of what
11:37Nicholas go to John was charged with
11:39first-degree murder we listen to how he
11:41was dropped off at the house let's
11:43listen to John Harmon another cab driver
11:46who picked gypsy and him up after the
11:49killing take a look we're learning all
11:52the steps that were taken but was this a
11:54deliberate act did Nicholas go to John
11:57premeditated on this was this planned
11:59out because if so that really does look
12:01like first-degree murder even if he is
12:02an autistic individual the back door of
12:05Michael Michael Bachner to talk about
12:06this so Michael you and I were just
12:08talking about this in the break right
12:10even forget the fact what their defense
12:13is that you know he can't form the
12:14requisite intent because of him being an
12:16autistic individual the idea here though
12:19do you think that she really did take
12:21advantage of him and tried to get a
12:23willing accomplice to this crime because
12:26of his condition I mean because he's an
12:28autistic individual does that do you
12:30believe that well it certainly sounds
12:32like that's part of the their whole
12:33synergy together and their kind of how
12:36they begin the yang of their
12:37relationship but it's interesting she is
12:39somebody as a result of what she went
12:41through with her mother that is her
12:42mother casting on her all his diseases
12:46probably would help her understand how
12:49she could actually manipulate another
12:50person who has a disease and perhaps
12:53take advantage of that type of situation
12:55and it's clear he suffers from something
12:57and it's clear she wanted this thing
12:59done she pled guilty to wouldn't she and
13:01she's testified against them so I think
13:04there is this where they kind of like
13:07working off of he off of off of each
13:10other but at the end of the day the
13:12issue is really going to be whether or
13:14not he made an independent decision to
13:16engage in the conduct he get engaged in
13:18not whether she may have manipulated him
13:19I want to touch upon what you said
13:21though that she is being a victim of
13:23manipulation for her entire life she
13:25almost became an expert in manipulation
13:27is that something you see in your
13:29practice people who have that upbringing
13:31one way or another if they were taught
13:33to lying and she there by their parents
13:36that they ultimately become that person
13:38I mean is that something that's
13:39consistent with what you've seen and
13:41we're assuming that she manipulated him
13:43but again that's is that something that
13:44you've seen well everyone's really the
13:47product of the environment they live in
13:48so I've certainly seen it in white
13:49collar offenses where stockbrokers for
13:51example who you know live their lives
13:54and become these penny stock cases lying
13:57to people and manipulating people and
13:58one philosophy a wolf of Wall Street
14:00Hawaii cross-examined for three days at
14:02the end of the day these are people who
14:04can train other people to actually find
14:06the weaknesses and the people they call
14:08and a lot of these people who actually
14:10are trained to do this some have those
14:12similar types of there's an old line the
14:14easiest person to sell is someone who
14:15sells they they actually so it's a there
14:19is that that type
14:20of that type of relationship that goes
14:21on okay so now if you sit in the
14:23defense's seat and you're listening to
14:25this and they're playing all this
14:26evidence about him taking the cab and
14:29planning this out and wanted to stab her
14:31and wanted to rape her and all this is
14:32it possible how would you argue as the
14:35defense attorney
14:35well that might all be true but this
14:37still isn't premeditation how would you
14:39argue that well you know you would have
14:42to try and argue that as a result of the
14:45disease you're suffering that you were
14:48brought into a situation and you were
14:51not going to engage in the conduct and
14:53the manipulative conduct that was
14:54brought upon perhaps by gypsy to put you
14:57in that position and it kind of over
15:00overcame your ability to act in in an
15:03appropriate way and as a result of the
15:05condition you have on the autistic on
15:07the autistic scale you or someone easily
15:10manipulated easily brought in to another
15:12type of reality very quiet arguments to
15:14make candidly very hard argument because
15:16autism is not a disease it's not really
15:17a defect it's just something that he was
15:21he was born an autistic individual so
15:23it's very difficult to argue this as
15:25opposed to as you said like an insanity
15:27defense or something else let's take a
15:28quick break when we come back a lot more
15:30to discuss welcome back to law and crime
15:39everybody we are switching gears right
15:41now and we were talking about our
15:42courtroom that we will be live in today
15:44that's right let's talk about Chris
15:46Watts Chris Watts pled guilty to the
15:50murders of his wife Shannon and also
15:53their two baby girls four-year-old Bella
15:56and three-year-old Celeste the actual
15:59cause of death of all three is sealed we
16:02don't know what the medical examiner's
16:03report is as of yet but we do know he
16:05pled guilty we believe he pled guilty
16:07because he wanted to escape the death
16:09penalty and today will begin his
16:12sentencing phase and this should be
16:14something to watch because he pled
16:15guilty to nine felony counts including
16:18five counts of first degree murder
16:20unlawful termination of a pregnancy and
16:23three counts of tampering with a
16:25deceased human body he could face that
16:27at least three
16:28life terms in prison without the
16:30possibility of parole and this is just a
16:33really incredible case we have a special
16:35report talking more about it in case you
16:38don't know anything about this whole
16:39situation
16:40take a look Chris Watts the man who
16:44admitted to murdering his pregnant wife
16:46Shannon and their two young daughters
16:48Celeste and Bella will be sentenced on
16:50Monday Watts pleaded guilty to three
16:53counts of first degree murder two counts
16:55of murdering a child one count of
16:58unlawful termination of a pregnancy and
17:00three counts of tampering with a
17:03deceased body the case drew national
17:05attention in August after watts publicly
17:07pleaded for his family's safe return one
17:10day after reporting them missing from
17:13their Colorado home on August 13th I
17:15mean right now I don't even want to just
17:17like throw anything out there like I
17:19hope that she is somewhere safe right
17:22now and with the kids but I mean could
17:26she event cause she just taken off I
17:28don't know but if somebody has her and
17:30they're not safe like I want them back
17:32now like that that that's what Sam I
17:35like if they're safe right now they're
17:37gonna come back but if they're not safe
17:39right now that's what that's the not
17:41knowing part like if they're not safe
17:43last night I was at every light in the
17:45house on I was hoping that I would just
17:48get just ran over by the kids running in
17:50the door and just like barrel rushing me
17:51but it didn't happen and it was just a
17:54traumatic night trying to be here Watts
17:57was arrested one day later and led the
17:59police to the bodies he confessed to
18:01driving them to the property of the oil
18:03and gas company where he worked he
18:06buried his wife in a shallow grave and
18:08dumped Celeste and Bella in oil barrels
18:11he said Watts admitted to killing his
18:13wife but claimed he only did it after
18:15she killed the children aged three and
18:17four he stated he saw Shannon actively
18:20strangling them on the baby monitor but
18:23when he arrived they were both dead
18:25Watts plea deal spared him from the
18:27death penalty though he faces life in
18:29prison for the long crime Network I'm
18:31Rachel Stockman
18:39always Michael as we watch this case you
18:42see the porch interview right we know
18:45that he changed his stories about what
18:46ultimately happened he eventually pled
18:48guilty
18:48how does someone look in the face of a
18:51camera to the whole world and just lie
18:54how does that happen it's really
18:57remarkable the ability of some people
18:59who are have this I'm gonna call them
19:02psychotic but not in the medical sense
19:04this ability to divorce themselves from
19:06the criminality horrible just banal type
19:10of evil they've created just killing a
19:12wife and your children and the method
19:13wish I did it and to be able to look
19:15into camera takes a special kind of evil
19:18and it's this need to self protect etc
19:21and he came across as you know kind of
19:23credible looking you know you seemed
19:25didn't seem in total shock hoping
19:27they're still alive etcetera and you
19:30know it's so interesting this slip of
19:32the tongue when he was talking about
19:33there he said he hoped his kids would
19:35come home and barrel into him and of
19:37course we know what he did with his
19:38children I mean generally why do you
19:41think he took a plea deal here I mean
19:42what is it really he didn't want to even
19:44try this take it to trial what do you
19:47think was going on in their defense team
19:48well I think the defense defense lawyers
19:51in cases like this or doctors in the
19:53emergency room their job is to stop the
19:55patient from dying and they know that
19:57there's no way that he's ever going to
19:59have a normal life they no way he's
20:01never gonna really be acquitted of this
20:02case given his statements in the nature
20:04of the evidence and their jobs to try
20:06and save his life
20:07so I they sat him down and said your
20:09options are as follows you can go to
20:10trial be convicted and there's a
20:12substantial chance you could get the
20:14death penalty you take this plea you
20:16live the rest of your life in jail but
20:17you know what you're still alive that's
20:19that's and I think clients have to make
20:22those horrible choices we don't know why
20:24this happened really we don't know why
20:26he did this or the motive here is not
20:28entirely clear but we know some
20:29informations been coming forward since
20:31the sentencing will be happening in fact
20:33the woman who claims that she was having
20:35an affair with Chris Watts did an
20:37interview with Denver 7 News and she
20:40called what happened to Shannon and her
20:42daughter's horrific and she said that
20:44Chris lied about everything during the
20:46relationship and that also lied about
20:48what actually
20:49and to Shannon and his two daughters I'm
20:52curious why do you think this is coming
20:54out now do you think that how do you
20:58think she's gonna play in the overall
20:59arc of this story I think she's just
21:02relevant for sentencing purposes and for
21:05purpose and and and to give some some
21:07context to what what happened here but
21:09it's really for sentencing purposes and
21:11and look these are not it's not that
21:13unusual to hear stories where people who
21:15want to change their lives and they
21:17consider the families they have to be an
21:19obstacle into what they should have and
21:21what they should be you have you know
21:23the the Casey Anthony case which of
21:25course she was acquitted on and the
21:26evidence wasn't there apparently a jury
21:28found but the argument was that a child
21:30was killed because it kind of interfered
21:32with the lifestyle she wanted to have
21:33and you you have these types of these
21:35types of cases they're not that unusual
21:37for people who have are either overly
21:41narcissistic and feel it's all about
21:43them and their families or obstacles but
21:45that's I think what this woman is coming
21:46out to say that the classic example is
21:49you had an affair you'd do anything to
21:51be with that person now again we don't
21:52know exactly what happened and we're
21:54trying to predict what's gonna happen
21:56today when victim impact statements are
21:57read there's a bizarre turn of events
22:00that happened with Chris Watson's family
22:01his parents in particular I want to talk
22:03about that they wrote a letter to the
22:05judge alleging that Watts had been
22:07coerced into taking this plea deal that
22:10his constitutional rights were denied
22:12and that they attempted to make an
22:14appearance in this matter the judge
22:16denied that but said that they can speak
22:17out during the victim impact statements
22:19because they are in fact victims since
22:22their grandchildren were killed so
22:24Michael what is going on here it's a
22:26weird thing I've never seen anything
22:28like this the issue of a defendant being
22:30coerced into taking a plea happens all
22:32the time defendants feel they feel like
22:35oh we made a mistake or they they just
22:37want to retract they want to go to trial
22:38but he's not saying this his parents are
22:40and the fact that his parents are saying
22:42that raises no constitutional issues for
22:44the judge as far as the judge is
22:45concerned unless this defendant raises
22:47the issue that he was coerced into a
22:49plea and wants to move to a draw which
22:51is candidly an enormous ly difficult
22:53thing to do at the end of the day you
22:55know this is a weird thing and then to
22:56be given the right to speak at the
22:58sentencing I'm not sure what that's all
23:00about what are they going to go up there
23:01and say that mice
23:02is innocent and then he didn't do
23:04anything wrong how was that a statement
23:06on behalf of the victims what's their
23:07leeway what can they actually say I mean
23:09what they want to come on there and
23:10they're technically allowed because they
23:12are the grandparents of two of the two
23:14girls so that normally what would happen
23:16is they would come on and say hey you
23:18know this was a horrible crime my
23:20granddaughters were killed but here
23:21what's their leeway what can they
23:23actually argue well generally like you
23:25said on just they would get up there and
23:27they would say you know what this is a
23:29horrible case but please show mercy on
23:31on the defendant you know even though he
23:33did this horrible thing they can come
23:35out and say things like that but they're
23:37gonna go up there and say this is a
23:38horrible crime my grandkids were killed
23:40but he didn't do it
23:41that's not really a victim impact
23:43statement because you're not really
23:46showing the impact on the victim as far
23:48as the defendant is concerned so I think
23:51the judge may feel statutorily under the
23:53law they have a right to speak but they
23:55give it little or no credence and
23:57frankly I think it could be harmful for
23:58for this defendant ultimately the world
24:01will be watching today and hopefully
24:03they're all watching here on law on
24:05crime which I hope you do because we're
24:06gonna be live in that courtroom do you
24:07think Chris Watts will make a statement
24:09well it's interesting if I were the
24:11judge on this case to protect this
24:12record I would say to this defendant I
24:14would make it clear that you are not
24:16raising any issues as far as your guilty
24:19pleas concern so that ultimately down
24:21the road depending on what a sentences
24:23does erase some other appeal out there
24:25and say that you know my parents told
24:27you about this coercion and I was you
24:29know told to be quiet about it etc I get
24:32the judge to talk about it what he
24:33should do up there just talk about how
24:35sorry is remorsefully is the woman it
24:37won't matter on his sentence he's gonna
24:39be getting life sentences anyway oh yeah
24:41this is definitely something to watch we
24:44are gonna be live in that courtroom we
24:46believe maybe in an hour or so but if
24:49something should happen before we're
24:51gonna go up there and watch that so that
24:53is the Chris Watts sentencing that's a
24:54live feed into the Quorum obviously
24:56nothing's happening yet we'll take a
24:57quick break we'll be right back
25:01[Music]
25:05everybody welcome back to lawn crime I'm
25:08Jesse Weber thanks for joining us busy
25:10day here on the network we are first
25:12going to be covering the Nikolas go to
25:13John trial talking a little bit more
25:15about it and the verdict came in so
25:18we're talking more about this man who
25:19was on trial for the murder of DeeDee
25:22Blanchard his girlfriend's mother trying
25:24to understand why this happened what the
25:26defense is going to be arguing because
25:28they argued that he is an autistic
25:30individual on the spectrum manipulated
25:32by gipsy Blanchard his girlfriend to
25:34commit this crime and that anything jury
25:36you shouldn't find him guilty of
25:38first-degree murder maybe something less
25:39because he couldn't form the requisite
25:41intent necessary DeeDee was found dead
25:44in her home stabbed to death a pretty
25:46brutal crime and gipsy Blanchard has
25:48been portrayed as the mastermind behind
25:50all of this she testified in connection
25:52with this trial testified on behalf of
25:55the defense
25:55she took most of the blame and we're you
25:58know we're gonna talk more about if that
25:59worked or not and we can't forget the
26:02fact that munchausen syndrome by proxy
26:03which it's believed that DeeDee
26:05Blanchard suffered from and you could
26:07say that gipsy Blanchard was the victim
26:09of herself really becomes a big factor
26:11in this case so before we talk about go
26:15to John and before we talk about the
26:17Chris Watts sentencing I just want to
26:19say Michael Bachner who is our guest
26:21today really thank you so much for
26:23coming on it was a pleasure we're
26:24killing to have ya thank you you can't
26:26wait to have you back awesome all right

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