YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → Meeting Title

Meeting Title — Transcript

by City of Sunnyside Washington · 17,195 words · 2,838 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:00We are going to
0:02All right. So, calling this meeting to
0:05order
0:07at
0:095:59. I'm going to wait right till 6:00.
0:27Yes, I have a copy of the presentation.
0:30Yes. PDF was sent as a part of the
0:33presentation.
0:33>> Okay. You don't have no PowerPoint or
0:35anything?
0:36Put it up on the screen. Okay. PDF?
0:39Uh
0:40didn't get a
0:41PowerPoint version of it. We got a PDF.
0:44Okay. Can you explain that?
0:46All right. So, calling this meeting to
0:47order at 6:00 p.m.
0:51For the record, all members of council
0:54are here uh ex- with the exception of
0:57Council Hart. Have you heard from
0:58Council Hart?
1:00Mr. Haley?
1:02I have not heard that she wanted to be
1:04excused. Okay. I haven't either. So, um
1:07are you all okay with giving her a few
1:08minutes to get here?
1:10Yeah, we can give her till the the
1:11meeting, I guess. Okay. Um
1:14and then uh Council Sesati is um online
1:18with us. Did I say Council Hart? I meant
1:20Deputy Mayor Hart.
1:22Apologies. And we have uh the city
1:24attorney on the line, Julie Norton.
1:26And oh, there's um Council Hart. For the
1:29record, Council Hart has arrived
1:33to the chambers and is making her way up
1:35to the dais.
1:38Um I think no staff are here other than
1:40Japheth and Leo. Um I heard that they
1:43were dismissed for the evening. Okay.
1:45And uh remind me of your name.
1:48Rob Rosca. Rob. Okay. Thank you for
1:51being here. Rob is here with us from
1:53WCIA who will be doing a presentation
1:55here.
1:56Um
1:58we did have an email
2:01going on about
2:03I'll wait for Mr. Haley to
2:07make his way over.
2:11Sorry.
2:13I count or Deputy Mayor Hart. Excuse me.
2:15Thank you for being patient with me.
2:17Yeah. So, before we go into the agenda,
2:20um I think the first item that we have
2:22is a presentation from WCIA.
2:25Um there's a couple of things that I
2:26wanted to go over. Um a couple weeks ago
2:29during our a a council meeting, um
2:31there was um Sandra Sesati who works for
2:35YVC
2:36did a public comment um inquiring um
2:40about a collaboration with the city for
2:43a college fair career fair
2:47um event hap- on April slated to happen
2:50on April 22nd.
2:52Now, that day um the collaboration
2:56didn't come forward to a vote. It just
2:58seemed like we had discussion around it
3:00and it seemed to be a consensus from the
3:01council that people were open to the
3:04collaboration.
3:06Um she was asking if there was a
3:08collaboration if we could forego the um
3:11the fees to the community center if the
3:14city um sponsors it. Now, it didn't come
3:17to a council for a vote.
3:20Um I don't rec- I don't recall seeing it
3:23in uh and please correct me if I'm
3:25wrong. Uh council members, if there if
3:27there's anything that um uh regarding
3:31situations like things coming to a
3:32council vote. I'm not against it. I just
3:34I I haven't seen it or on uh or in any
3:38of our SMCs. I know we've
3:40um things like this have we have voted
3:42on them in the past just for the record
3:44and because it has to do with the fee
3:46schedule. So, I wanted to bring this
3:50forward to us and then we can have a
3:52conversation about it because if if we
3:54do want it to come to a vote, we'd have
3:55to
3:56uh make a motion to um Add to our agenda
4:00to amend it and add it to our agenda
4:01today.
4:05Yeah, I'm okay with the with adding it
4:07for for tonight. For tonight, yeah. As
4:09an as an item.
4:11I I think that's I agree. I So, his
4:14motion I'll second.
4:15>> [laughter]
4:15>> Okay.
4:16Okay. So, we have a motion by council
4:20member Galvan
4:22Yes. to incorporate it would be item
4:28Let's see.
4:29Um if we could incorporate this onto
4:32item C and then maybe we can have the um
4:35interim city manager's update be the
4:38last thing we go over today.
4:40Uh so, we can uh officially vote on the
4:45potential collaboration with YVCC for a
4:48college fair career fair on April 22nd
4:50sponsored by the city of Sunnyside.
4:53Okay. And then I got a second by Deputy
4:55Mayor Hart.
4:57Um okay.
5:00Is there any discussion?
5:03Okay. I'll start at the bottom. Uh
5:04Council Chavez?
5:06Yes.
5:07Uh
5:08Council Oh, Council Sesati? Yes.
5:12Council Vasquez? Yes.
5:14Council Dolan? Yes.
5:17Council Galvan?
5:19Deputy Mayor Hart? Yes. I too vote yes.
5:21Motion carries.
5:23So, this will be added as item
5:27C.
5:29Julie, I I didn't hear from you about
5:31needing an executive session. Do Do we
5:33need one or do we not need one? Uh yeah,
5:36I responded back to your email that we
5:38um you'd want one either way. So, under
5:41RCW 42.31.110.1f
5:44or 1i, this would be to discuss with
5:46legal counsel representing the agency um
5:48matters of agency enforcement.
5:51So, we do need one. Okay. Yeah. It's
5:53there. Okay. So, I'd like to entertain a
5:55motion to add an executive session at
5:57the end of the agenda.
5:59So move.
6:01Is there a second?
6:03I'll second.
6:05Okay.
6:06Discussion?
6:09Council Chavez?
6:11Yes.
6:12Council Sesati? Yes.
6:14Council Vasquez?
6:16Yes. Council Dolan? Yes. Council Galvan?
6:20Yes.
6:21Deputy Mayor? Yes.
6:23Okay. I too vote yes. Motion carries.
6:26We'll We'll go ahead and add that
6:27executive session at the end of the
6:28agenda.
6:31Okay. So, we'll go
6:35We'll go on with item A, receive a
6:38presentation from the Washington Cities
6:40Insurance Authority on council dues and
6:43don'ts. And that will be provided by
6:46Rob.
6:47Thank you for being with us here today.
6:50Is there anything else that we need to
6:52prep up for him?
6:53Japheth?
6:56Okay.
6:59Great.
7:01Okay. No.
7:01Well, good evening. My name is Rob
7:03Rosca. I'm the Deputy Director of WCIA,
7:05which stands for Washington Cities
7:07Insurance Authority.
7:09Excuse me. Could you turn on your
7:10microphone? Oh, sorry. Yeah.
7:13How's that? Is that better?
7:15Yeah. Deputy Director of Washington
7:16Cities Insurance Authority or WCIA as we
7:19like to call ourselves. Um WCIA
7:22initially when I tell people where I
7:24work, they think it's like Washington
7:25Central Tele- way more exciting than
7:28insurance. Once I say insurance, I lose
7:30them and it's like there they go. All
7:31right. But again, I'm here to hopefully
7:33answer questions you guys may have. So,
7:35please feel free to fire them out at me.
7:37Uh this is why I'm here. Uh I do this
7:40throughout the state of Washington. Uh
7:42and just give you a little bit
7:43background. I've been involved with WCIA
7:46now for 26 years. I started in 2000.
7:50I left actually went to go work for a
7:52member city. So, I actually worked for a
7:54city for 12 and 1/2 years. So, I know
7:56what it's like to be a member at WCIA as
7:59well as work for it. I was on the
8:01executive committee and I think I asked
8:03way too many questions cuz my background
8:05is in insurance and risk management. So,
8:07my boss wanted to shut me up. So, she
8:09brought me in-house. So, I've been back
8:11at WCIA now for
8:13uh a little over 8 and 1/2 years.
8:15So, I'm glad to be back as a Deputy
8:17Director. Uh we provide the city's
8:20liability insurance coverage as well as
8:22property, auto physical damage, and we
8:25group purchase some other policies for
8:27the city including cyber, premises
8:29pollution liability, equipment
8:31breakdown, all sorts of different things
8:33that could go wrong with either city
8:35equipment city operations that you want
8:37insurance for. We're here to help
8:39provide you for that. Uh we do provide
8:41$20 in liability coverage. We are one of
8:46three risk pools in the state of
8:47Washington. We provide the most in
8:49coverage and limits.
8:51And I will tell you it is getting very
8:53hard out there. You can advance the
8:54slides, too.
8:56Um
8:58it's [sighs and gasps]
8:59a very difficult market and I'll go over
9:01some of those issues as to what's going
9:03on with that. One of the nice things
9:05about WCIA though is we are not an
9:06insurance company. We are a risk pool
9:09and there's a big delineation about
9:11that. One, we are an interlocal
9:13government agency created by our members
9:15for our members. We were created back in
9:171981 primarily because, believe it or
9:20not, government agencies are not a very
9:22good insurance risk. And the insurance
9:25market were charging an exorbitant
9:27amount of money and not having a lot of
9:30control over how claims are being
9:32handled or being litigated. So, a bunch
9:36of cities decided to create their own
9:38and that's where we are formed through
9:39an interlocal government agency. So, I'm
9:41a public employee.
9:43I carry two phones, one work phone and
9:46one personal phone. I do not mix the two
9:48up and I'll go over why you don't want
9:50to do that a little bit later.
9:53Um but the other big distinction is I
9:55don't underwrite for a profit. I'm not
9:57trying to make money off of our members.
9:59If we do make money at the end of the
10:01year, that's great. That means it goes
10:03into what we call our undesignated
10:04reserve funds, which help offset future
10:06rate increases. So, the more money we
10:09have, the less money we have to charge
10:11our members for rates. So, that's the
10:14good news. The bad news is it's getting
10:16very hard to have money left over at the
10:19end of the year due to the litigation
10:22environment that we're in in Washington
10:23state in particular. We are one of the
10:25worst in the nation.
10:27Um
10:29But, the other good thing about being
10:30part of WCA is coverage decisions are
10:33decided by our executive director, Ann
10:35Bennett. Uh she's been involved with WCA
10:37now for 30 years.
10:39All we do is insure municipalities in
10:41Washington state. We do not insure any
10:44counties or state agencies. We do insure
10:47interlocal government agencies like
10:48Yakima Valley Conference of Government,
10:50uh
10:51as well as 911 dispatch centers,
10:53wastewater treatment facility or sewer
10:56district plant
10:57organizations, entities. They have to
11:00provide a municipal function now. So, uh
11:03a lot of times, I get called from
11:05especially right now with this market, a
11:07lot of agencies looking to join. Uh we
11:10don't just take any municipality in the
11:12state of Washington. You have to qualify
11:14to be a member. Once you're a member,
11:16you're in. And we will work with you. We
11:18will try to help you in risk manage your
11:21exposures and try to keep controls in
11:24place to help reduce those
11:26uh losses or the potential for loss.
11:30But, those members coming in, if they
11:31don't have a good loss history, I'm not
11:34going to take them into our pool because
11:36their losses impact your rates, just
11:39like your rates are impacting all the
11:41other members' rates as well. So, we are
11:43in this together. We do try to help our
11:45members out. That's where we're very
11:47good with training. We offer a lot of
11:49trainings for staff. We offer risk
11:51management advice. We have pre-defense.
11:53We try to give the membership as much
11:57information as possible before they make
11:59those decisions. We don't tell you how
12:01to run your city.
12:02That's city manager's job. Your job as
12:05legislatures to look at the budget and
12:07the legislative issues confronting the
12:09city, ordinances, resolutions. We're not
12:12going to tell you how to do that. We're
12:13going to tell you about the potential
12:15impacts of what you do, as well as make
12:18recommendations to put some controls in
12:20place to help limit those exposures and
12:23reduce the potential for loss.
12:26Unfortunately, you can do everything
12:27right and still suffer claims and
12:30litigation.
12:32Uh that's just the nature of the
12:33business of what we do, and that's why
12:35we exist. So, I can't complain too much.
12:38You can keep going.
12:40You can keep going. One more.
12:43Insurance market. Insurance is a very
12:45cyclical cycle.
12:47>> [sighs]
12:48>> You can get some very large ups and
12:51downs. Unfortunately, the past 5 6
12:55years, all it's done is gone up from a
12:57liability perspective. We haven't seen
12:59any
13:00slowing down of that cycle. And what
13:04that means is it's harder for me to buy
13:08what's called reinsurance. I insure the
13:09first five five million dollars of every
13:12loss. Comes out of WCA's general fund.
13:16Then I buy reinsurance above those
13:18layers up to 20 million dollars.
13:21And 2022, there were two large
13:24reinsurers that pulled out of the state
13:25of Washington. They basically said no
13:28more public agencies. Uh we're not
13:30underwriting in the state anymore, and
13:32that left a huge hole for us to try to
13:35fill. Uh we got creative. We had to do
13:39some
13:40co-insurance, some deductibles. We had
13:43to get really uh creative in 2022.
13:46After that, we did we were able to
13:48backfill and bring in some new
13:50reinsurance partners. And that's We call
13:53them partners because it is a very
13:54partnership-related business. They want
13:57to know what we're doing. They want to
13:59know the exposures. So, I meet with
14:01underwriters on a regular basis,
14:04uh especially at renewal.
14:06And it's getting harder because last
14:08year we insured the first 4 million.
14:10This is what I mean by a hard market. I
14:13was forced to raise myself insured
14:14retention up a million to 5 million
14:17because no carrier would underwrite me
14:19below that amount. So, I didn't have an
14:22option. So, right away I'm at 5 million
14:24dollars. Now, you think I would get a
14:27break on costing? No, my rates also went
14:30up.
14:31So, my attachment point went up a
14:33million, plus my rates went up a
14:35million. Just to give you an example, in
14:3710 years, my rates have gone up over
14:39700%.
14:43Now, we try to keep our members' rates a
14:45little bit more stable than that.
14:47Um not saying we haven't had rate
14:49increases. We've had to, just because
14:51that's the nature of the business. And
14:54if my rates have gone up 700%,
14:56it's going to trickle down to other
14:58members eventually. Now, we do some
15:01stabilization.
15:03Um we do some rate capping. But,
15:05unfortunately, it's just getting very
15:07difficult to insure
15:10in our state. We don't have any tort
15:12caps. We have joint several liability.
15:14And I'll go over some of those issues
15:16a little later in the presentation. But,
15:19it makes us very vulnerable to those
15:21increases. Now, the good news, give you
15:24a little bit of good news, too. Good,
15:25bad.
15:26Property. Property's been really good.
15:28Uh we've had some really good property
15:30rates the last 2 years. I've been able
15:33to keep our rates flat. I'm actually
15:35looking at a rate decrease for next
15:37year. So, that's some good news is we're
15:40at least going to be able to give a rate
15:42decrease on the property side.
15:45Property's pretty easy, though. That is
15:47dependent upon how the hurricanes uh go,
15:49where the wildfires are at, and what the
15:51global environment's doing in a property
15:54market perspective. But, the last few
15:56years it's been relatively calm. We've
15:58had some really good rate renewals, and
16:01that means I'm able to give some back to
16:02the membership in 2027 from a property
16:06perspective.
16:08Uh you can go next slide.
16:12This is just kind of giving you some
16:13headlines. State of Washington got hit
16:15with a $100 million lawsuit for the
16:17wrongful death of
16:20two children that were being supervised
16:22by Department of Social and Health
16:23Services. Susan Powell Cox, uh it got
16:27national attention. Her body was never
16:29found. The ex-husband was suspected of
16:31murdering her, but it was never proved.
16:34He was never arrested, never
16:36incarcerated for that. And the
16:41family, uh the dad had some
16:43court-ordered supervision for his
16:45children.
16:47So, DSHS was forced to bring the
16:50children over to let him see the kids.
16:54Unfortunately, he then took the kids,
16:57locked them inside his trailer, brutally
16:59murdered them, and set the trailer on
17:00fire.
17:03Jury came back with a $100 million
17:05against the state of Washington. Now,
17:06the state of Washington, the DSHS did
17:08not obviously want to see that happen.
17:12It was a criminal act by a third party,
17:14a deranged dad who had obviously mental
17:16health issues. Uh that led to that
17:19murder. We thought that, boy, maybe
17:24this might be a time for the state to
17:25start looking at some tort reform. $100
17:28million
17:29is a lot of money for the death of two
17:31children. Now, mind you, I will have my
17:33two children any day of the week. I
17:35don't care about the money, and every
17:36parent is going to probably think the
17:37same thing.
17:39You can't put a price tag on a life.
17:41But, unfortunately, that's what the
17:43courts are assigned to do. And when they
17:45came up with $100 million, we thought,
17:47well, maybe the state would be looking
17:48at maybe putting in some caps or some
17:51tort reform in place because the state
17:53was only like 2% at fault. But, because
17:55of joint several liability, where the
17:57kids when you have
17:59three or more or two or more people at
18:01fault, and you have a fault-free
18:04plaintiff, children, who they did
18:05nothing wrong.
18:07They were just doing going to see their
18:09dad.
18:10And if you're found at least 1% at
18:13fault, you could be on the hook for any
18:15entire judgment if that other party
18:18doesn't have the money to pay.
18:20Well, guess who the deep pocket's going
18:22to be. Nine times out of 10, it's going
18:24to be the public agency. It's going to
18:26be the city of Sunnyside. It's going to
18:27be the state of Washington. It's going
18:29to be Yakima County. It's going to be
18:32that responsible party that has that
18:33insurance, unless you're dealing with a
18:35company or a large corporation that has
18:39assets and insurance to back up those
18:41losses. But, because of that, they're
18:43going to try and say you did something
18:45wrong. And here, if you did at least 1%
18:48at fault,
18:50and the plaintiff, the children were
18:51fault-free, the entire judgment you're
18:54now responsible for. So, we thought
18:56maybe that would get some discussion on
18:57it. No, they just did a bunch of
18:59amendment. And the Supreme Court
19:01actually upheld the verdict as being non
19:04non-excessive.
19:06So, that just tells you the climate that
19:08we're in. Um
19:11>> [clears throat]
19:11>> You know, state of Washington's been hit
19:13with multiple uh lawsuits. The city of
19:15Seattle just this year had a 30 million
19:18and a 28 million dollar verdict. Chop,
19:22the individual that died in the city of
19:24Seattle at city didn't shoot him. He
19:27died, and they couldn't render aid. And
19:29therefore, the city was held liable.
19:30It's on appeal, but that was $30
19:32million. Then there was the injury with
19:35the individual in the crosswalk, where
19:37an officer hit her in a crosswalk and
19:39made some very inappropriate comments on
19:42the radio. $28 million.
19:45So, these are very expensive claims and
19:49lawsuits that can arise out of agencies.
19:52Uh next slide.
19:56There was a study done by um
19:59Chamber of Commerce Institute, and you
20:01can Google this. It's out there. Uh
20:03Washington state, we were the third
20:05worst per capita in the nation. And that
20:08was in 2021.
20:10I think [clears throat] if they did that
20:11same study today,
20:12we'd rate a lot higher. Coupled with the
20:14fact that Florida, Georgia, and New York
20:17have all done some legislation on tort
20:21reforms,
20:22Washington has done zero. We try every
20:26year to get our lobbyist involved with
20:28the state legislature,
20:30and it falls on deaf ears. It's really
20:33difficult in our state to get any sort
20:36of headway because they're very proud of
20:39their position of being victim
20:40advocates. And I can totally appreciate
20:43and understand that when someone is hurt
20:46and harmed, they need to have just
20:49compensation for that. But at the same
20:51time, you end up punishing and hurting
20:55the same agencies that still have to
20:56provide services for the community in
20:59which they reside in.
21:01This is coming out of public funds,
21:04these monies.
21:05Uh frustrating part, out of Spokane
21:07County, there was a sheriff's deputy
21:10who was on the radio using inappropriate
21:12language.
21:13He ended up getting terminated by the
21:15deputy.
21:16He then sued saying wrongful
21:18termination.
21:19He sued for Not just No, it wasn't
21:22wrongful termination, it was
21:23libel and slander. He libeled me and
21:26slandered me with that derogatory
21:29comment.
21:31Jury came back with $20 verdict.
21:34He wasn't a quadriplegic, was not a
21:36paraplegic. This was libel and slander
21:39over derogatory comments. And he won
21:42$20. Now, the frustrating part about
21:44that is you read the Spokane Journal
21:47Review over that, and they start talking
21:49about how well the county has a
21:51self-insured layer of $3,000, then the
21:54rest is covered by a risk pool and
21:56insurance money. So they make it seem
21:58like, well, that's okay then because
22:00it's not coming out of taxpayer dollars.
22:03Uh it is coming out of taxpayer dollars.
22:05One, they're part of the county risk
22:07pool, which is another public agency,
22:09just like WCA is a public agency. And
22:12two, those reinsurers that ended up
22:14paying are going to charge more for
22:16future assessments, so you know who's
22:19going to have to pay for that, our
22:21taxpayers to fund for those. And that's
22:24where it really is a fine line between
22:27justice and preventing future harm and
22:31eliminating resources that you would
22:34have to provide for your residents. So
22:36the best thing you can do is not have
22:38claims to begin with, and that's what
22:40I'm here today to talk to you about.
22:42It's to try to prevent those claims from
22:43ever emanating out of the city.
22:46Uh next slide.
22:49So things you can do to avoid liability.
22:52Well, first of all, thank you for your
22:53service. I know being an elected
22:55official is not the easiest task. I
22:58worked for a city for 12 and 1/2 years.
23:00I used to have to go to city council all
23:01the time. I know how much much work you
23:04have to put in if you're going to be
23:05educated on the issues. So thank you for
23:07doing so.
23:09Know that our coverage document protects
23:12the city of Sunnyside,
23:14employees, volunteers, and elected
23:16officials, as long as you're acting
23:18within the course and scope of your
23:19duties for the city. So you do have $20
23:22liability coverage with WCA while you're
23:25acting in that elected official
23:27capacity.
23:29Now, some things to watch out for though
23:32is there's some good defenses. We don't
23:34see a lot of city council members being
23:36sued individually anymore. We used to
23:38see that a lot more
23:40back in the early 2000s, late '90s,
23:44where plaintiffs would name individual
23:46council members. Now, with some land use
23:47petition, the LUPA Act, and some other
23:50situations, we don't see individual
23:51council members getting sued.
23:53Good news is there's some good defenses
23:55anyway. As long as you're acting as a
23:57council as a whole, you have some
24:00discretionary immunity for the decisions
24:02that you're making as a legislative
24:03body.
24:04You have some legislative immunity as
24:06well, as long as you're acting as a
24:09council as a whole, not as an
24:11individual. Once you step outside of the
24:13council and start acting from the desk
24:15of,
24:17that's where you start creating some
24:19potential exposure individually for what
24:22you say and what you do. So just be
24:24cognizant of that fact and try to limit
24:27your comments to the committee as a
24:28whole and not as an individual. That
24:30doesn't mean you can't have individual
24:31opinions. You certainly can, and you can
24:33certainly talk about those, but just be
24:35careful about stepping outside of that
24:37role as a council member. Cuz once you
24:39start acting as an individual, you start
24:41opening yourself up to some further
24:43scrutiny and some potential litigation.
24:46Uh next slide.
24:50I mentioned land use. Uh hearing
24:52examiners are best friend. You guys use
24:54a hearing examiner here, do you not?
24:56Yes, I thought you do. Hearing examiner?
24:58You guys use a hearing examiner?
25:00We use it so for um different different
25:03events that we have.
25:04>> Yes, it'll takes the council out of
25:06acting out of the in a quasi-judicial
25:08role, where you have to act as a judge
25:10and make rulings. And that's a difficult
25:13role to do because you get a lot of
25:15public comment. You get a lot of people
25:17coming up to you about their opinions on
25:20issues.
25:21And sometimes those opinions and those
25:23comments are not part of the record, and
25:25you can't rule or act based upon those
25:29comments or those opinions because it's
25:32not part of the record, and it leads to
25:34arbitrary and capricious
25:35decision-making. One of our worst claims
25:38resulted out of a
25:40claim from the city of Burien. Newly
25:43incorporated, they had Westmark, the
25:45Burien,
25:47and it was going to block
25:49some nice views of the Puget Sound. It
25:51was a multi-family residency.
25:54Uh and it was
25:57vested under King County, but the city
26:00took it over when it incorporated. And
26:02they were using King County rules at the
26:05time of their review.
26:08However, it was delayed multiple times,
26:12and the developer finally sued. And I
26:15think there were three or four different
26:17litigations over it. Lasted close to 8
26:20years.
26:21Uh long story short, the city lost the
26:23tune of $10.
26:26Plus some attorney's fees. So these
26:28things can be very expensive and very
26:31prolonged litigation, especially when
26:33there's big money involved with
26:34development. That's where hearing
26:36examiner is a very good resource for
26:40our members. And any city that doesn't
26:42use one, I'm a big advocate to try to
26:44change their code and incorporate those
26:46hearing examiners to extricate you from
26:49having to make those quasi-judicial
26:51rulings. Not that you can't do it, it
26:53just creates a little bit more of a
26:56hurdle
26:58and scrutiny. I had one council member
27:01where I worked before we changed over to
27:02a hearing examiner,
27:04who in open session said he did not want
27:07to hear any or did not want to have any
27:09more SHAG senior housing in the downtown
27:12area.
27:13The problem with that was there was a
27:15development that was being
27:17reviewed for vote
27:20on senior housing in the downtown area.
27:23Now, council ended up rejecting it and
27:25denying it due to some density issues.
27:27However, because that council member
27:29made that comment, all the developer
27:32heard was he didn't want it because of
27:34the type of use it was. So they ended up
27:37suing, and they ended up winning quite a
27:39bit of money because of that comment
27:41being taken out of context. So that's
27:43kind of the pitfalls
27:45over what Cuz it got rejected, and
27:48because that council member made that
27:50comment in an open session, it was used
27:53against them.
27:55So it's things like that that can really
27:57be problematic for us and for you as a
28:00council member.
28:02Development agreements,
28:03I have to caution you about that. You
28:05may have heard about city of Elum.
28:08Um Yeah. Yeah. That arose out of a
28:10development agreement. Development
28:11agreements [snorts] are a creative way
28:13to
28:14go outside of your zoning codes, your
28:16local ordinances, and get something from
28:20a developer, this for that. It's usually
28:22in a contract. That's the agreement. You
28:24have a development agreement, you're
28:25going to do X, Y, and Z, and we're going
28:27to get A, B, and C.
28:29Problem with that is it can sound good
28:31today, and they can be binding for quite
28:35a few years later. And you have new
28:37council coming in, and they say, "Well,
28:39why do we have this development
28:40agreement on the books? This doesn't
28:41look good." And the next thing you know,
28:43they're kind of against it, and it's
28:45going contrary to what the developer
28:46wanted.
28:48Now, that was in Cle Elum's problem. Cle
28:50Elum's problem was it
28:52was a large development,
28:54and the developer didn't think that they
28:56were playing by the terms of the
28:58agreement.
29:00And unfortunately, in that development
29:01agreement, there was a mandatory
29:03arbitration clause
29:04that forced them to go to arbitration
29:06rather than to superior court.
29:09And when you go to arbitration clauses,
29:10a lot of times those are funded
29:14by Master Builders Association,
29:17uh whomever, you know, the general
29:19industry, per se. I'm not saying it's a
29:22bias right off the get-go, but it's not
29:25going to be as favorable as if you just
29:26went to straight district court. So
29:29right there's a hurdle.
29:31The other hurdle is it's binding.
29:34And the develop the here the arbitrator
29:36found that the city had violated that
29:39agreement. Now, WCA provides $20 in
29:42liability for your tort claims, your
29:45civil litigation,
29:47not breaches of contract. Breaches of
29:49contract are not covered by any
29:52insurance company, cuz that's a
29:53performance requirement. You need to do
29:55X, Y, and Z or the legal requirements of
29:58that contract.
30:00So, that breach of contract was not
30:02covered. Now, we did end up giving the
30:04city quite a bit of money, $5 million
30:07for
30:08our sublimit on some land use exposure
30:11and recommended they settle it. They
30:12thought that they could win it
30:14and they lost and the arbitration award
30:16was $22 million.
30:19Now, the city is looking at bankruptcy
30:21council. That's going to affect their
30:22bond rating for future years and it's
30:25very problematic. So, my cautionary tale
30:28on that is be very careful about your
30:30utilization your utilization of those
30:33agreements. They may sound good today,
30:35but they can bind future councils and
30:37we've even had one city that had an
30:40agreement, it had expired, so they
30:43thought they didn't have to honor the
30:45terms and conditions. The developer sued
30:47and said the only reason it expired was
30:49because staff and council delayed it so
30:52much that they let it lapse and the
30:54court agreed.
30:56So, here they thought they were out, but
30:58the court brought them back in. So,
30:59that's where it just cautionary tale
31:01about your utilization of those tools.
31:04>> [snorts]
31:05>> Go ahead and next slide.
31:07Uh personnel, I won't spend too much
31:09time. I think you guys are pretty aware
31:11of some personnel exposures. Uh
31:13my main plea here is let city manager
31:16deal with staff.
31:18You do not want to insert yourself in
31:20personnel related matters. There are a
31:22number of laws on the books designed to
31:24protect employees, not employers.
31:26They're not very favorable to employers.
31:29They're there to protect the employee.
31:32My plea for you is if someone comes up
31:35and tells you to avoid certain behavior,
31:38do not argue about whether or not it was
31:41offensive or derogatory. Just stop the
31:44behavior. Your intent is irrelevant.
31:48It's how it's impacted by those that are
31:51uh impacted by that behavior and by
31:53those comments. So, you may be
31:57not intending intending to be offensive
32:00or harassing, but if it's being
32:01perceived by those that are impacted by
32:03the comments and you're told to stop,
32:06please just stop.
32:08That's all you need to do.
32:10Do not look at the staff directory as
32:12your personal Tinder account. We've had
32:14that happen before where all of a sudden
32:17councilmember got a divorce and now he
32:19wants to start dating romantically, so
32:21he goes through the staff uh directory
32:24and starts calling up members to go out
32:26on dates.
32:28Not okay.
32:30That puts staff in a huge awkward
32:32situation because you come from a
32:35position of power and authority.
32:37Now, if two coworkers are engaged in
32:40inappropriate behavior, city manager has
32:43resources that he can take to effectuate
32:45a change in their behavior. He can
32:46investigate it. If it's found that
32:48someone's violating policy, they can
32:50take administrative action. They can
32:52discipline, they can
32:54uh suspend, they can do written
32:56reprimands, and they can even terminate.
32:59Can I terminate elected officials?
33:02No, that's my problem.
33:04That's where you can create kind of that
33:07exposure that city manager can't rein
33:10in.
33:11So, your conduct can really escalate
33:14very quickly.
33:16And that's where I say, if you're told
33:18to stop and you don't stop,
33:20remember, you have $20 million in
33:22liability coverage as long as you're
33:23acting within the course and scope of
33:26your duties for the city of Sunnyside.
33:29If you're told to stop certain behavior
33:31and you don't stop it,
33:33you could be acting as an individual
33:36outside of that role of that elected
33:37official.
33:39Therefore, coverage may not attach if we
33:42find out you've been doing that
33:44intentional behavior. Therefore, your
33:47own assets could be exposed and that's
33:50my scared straight speech. So,
33:53again, please, please, please, if you're
33:54told to stop something, don't argue
33:56about it. And if you witness something,
33:59you do have an obligation to forward
34:00that on to the executive. Let the city
34:03manager know that somebody made some
34:06inappropriate or staff was being
34:07subjected to some inappropriate conduct
34:09or behavior because once you have
34:11notice, the city has notice and that
34:13begins the city's administrative process
34:17to investigate it and hopefully put an
34:19end to it if they can.
34:21So, they have an
34:23affirmative duty to those employees and
34:26if you witness something, you need to
34:27make sure that you report that
34:28accordingly.
34:34Now, if something goes wrong and you get
34:37called and yes, maybe the city made a
34:40mistake, but please do not say, "Oh my
34:42gosh, we're so sorry. Don't worry, the
34:43city will take care of everything."
34:45Uh everything is a very broad statement
34:48and even fault is a legal conclusion
34:51that we need to do a proper
34:52investigation on. Now, here's what I
34:55mean by that, too. Be careful about your
34:57comments. Don't be afraid to say, "I'm
34:59unsure. Let me forward that on to the
35:01proper department and let them review it
35:03and get back to you."
35:05Uh we had one situation where uh
35:08downtown uh city has pretty strict
35:10downtown codes about how they have
35:14uh siding on their buildings.
35:17Joe wanted to redo his hardware store.
35:19Called the mayor up and said, "Mayor, I
35:21want to put stucco on my building. Is
35:22that okay?" Joe, that looks great.
35:24Sounds great. Good luck.
35:26Uh hope you get a nice good quote. So,
35:28he hires a contractor.
35:30He goes out there, starts putting stucco
35:32on the building. Code enforcement comes
35:33by
35:35and red tags the building saying, "You
35:37cannot put stucco in the downtown. It
35:40needs to be cedar siding." Or whatever
35:42the code called for.
35:44Is that a problem?
35:47Yeah, that's a problem because he called
35:48the city up and the mayor told him he
35:51could do it. So, I get the claim for
35:52damages. I call the mayor up and say,
35:54"Mayor, did you tell Joe he could put
35:55stucco on it?"
35:57"Yeah, Rob, I did. I probably should
35:58have looked at our codes a little bit
36:00closer."
36:01"Well, Mayor, we're going to have to end
36:03up paying for that and paying for his
36:05contractor and the cost of his building
36:08materials that he's already expended
36:09because that's something that you then
36:11committed the city to." So, just be
36:13careful about taking matters into your
36:15own hands and directing staff as well.
36:21I talked about defamation earlier with
36:24the city of Spokane. This can be very
36:27expensive.
36:28Um as public officials, you have to have
36:31thicker skin. Even public employees have
36:33to have a little bit thicker skin. But
36:35try to avoid getting into personal
36:38name-calling.
36:39Uh calling out people by name,
36:41especially if you have a certain area
36:45that is impoverished.
36:48Uh you don't want to call people
36:49slumlords.
36:51That can get personal.
36:52Uh you can say you need some code
36:54enforcement and you need to do some
36:56cleanup activities, but don't start
36:59getting into name-calling cuz that's
37:01where you things can cross lines very
37:02quickly.
37:04Uh be careful about that. Now, truth is
37:06a defense,
37:08but even that we don't want to have to
37:09defend if we don't need to. So, if you
37:11can avoid getting into that derogatory
37:13name-calling in the first place, that
37:15can go a long way from preventing those
37:17claims from ever arising. And
37:19unfortunately, we do see those every now
37:21and then.
37:26I do have to spend a little bit of time
37:28on public works cuz this is one area
37:30that we definitely see council
37:35>> [sighs and gasps]
37:35>> uh creating some potential problems and
37:38it's not
37:40intended to. It's well-intended. A lot
37:43of times you're trying to do good.
37:45You're trying to make change. You want
37:46to make things safer.
37:49However,
37:51in our state because of joint and
37:53several liability,
37:54remember, if you're 1% at fault
37:57and someone did nothing wrong
38:00and there's someone else at fault, they
38:01can collect the entire amount from you.
38:03This comes up a lot with public works,
38:06with crosswalks, with roads.
38:09Um
38:09you'll get uh a situation where there's
38:12not enough insurance to cover the
38:13damages for the accident. So, they're
38:16going to look for a third party
38:19to blame
38:20and guess who that's going to be.
38:22City of Sunnyside.
38:24So, if someone's injured in a crosswalk,
38:26we're going to defend the city. We're
38:28going to say it met MUTCD Manual for
38:31Uniform Traffic Control Devices
38:33standards, AASHTO American Highway
38:36Safety Traffic Organization standards.
38:38It met all these engineering criteria.
38:40It was well-designed. It turns into
38:42engineering malpractice cases. So, we're
38:45going to look to the city engineer
38:47or the city contractor to make sure that
38:50it met all those warrants.
38:52If it was put in arbitrarily because a
38:55number of residents complained and
38:57thought it was a good idea to put a
38:58crosswalk here and you said, "Yeah,
39:00okay, we'll do that because crosswalks
39:02make roads safer."
39:04Without those traffic studies,
39:06that limits our ability then to defend
39:08the city.
39:10So, be careful about that. Or if you
39:12refer to roads as being unsafe or this
39:16is a dangerous situation,
39:18I actually had a councilmember refer to
39:20a traffic circle as a circle of death.
39:24Again, I can't make this stuff up. He
39:26called Now, that doesn't mean the
39:28traffic circle is inherently unsafe, but
39:30now if someone's injured in that traffic
39:32circle, do you think they're going to
39:34try to say that it had some issues that
39:37the city knew about and should have made
39:38it safer? Well, their own councilmember
39:40refers it to the circle of death. Well,
39:42what we're going to have to then do, and
39:44we've done this unfortunately one too
39:46many times, is then depose that council
39:48member, ask him where he got his traffic
39:50engineering degree at, and say what in
39:53your engineering opinion led you to come
39:55up with He had none and it was just his
39:57opinion. Okay, that doesn't mean it's
40:00unsafe. So, just be careful about the
40:03terminology you use. It could mean you
40:06might want to do additional studies and
40:09see whether things may warrant
40:11additional measures or controls, and
40:13that's something that staff can assist
40:15you with. But, don't just flat out say,
40:17"Well, this is a dangerous situation
40:19because there's poor lighting here."
40:21Poor lighting is a judgment call that's
40:23best left to the engineers.
40:26And again, it's nothing that we want to
40:28then have to try to counter
40:30in a call and have you deposed in open
40:33session because I guarantee you a
40:35plaintiff will take what you say and run
40:37with it and try to use it to the best of
40:39their ability to try to say that the
40:41city was at fault.
40:44So, be very careful about that. And
40:46that's where joint several really comes
40:48into play cuz again, we we see it a lot
40:50with crosswalks where kids get hurt in a
40:53crosswalk and they're fault free. They
40:55did nothing wrong. They're in a
40:56crosswalk.
40:58And then we have to justify why that
41:00crosswalk is where it is. And if meets
41:02those engineering criteria, we can do
41:04so. But, if it's just done arbitrarily
41:07based upon neighborhood complaints about
41:10putting that in there and the road
41:12doesn't justify it, that's where it can
41:15be problematic for us.
41:22Uh executive session, well, I heard
41:24you're going to executive session.
41:26Executive session's a great tool.
41:28It's a very good tool for you to have
41:29those frank
41:31Um it's one of the few times that you
41:34can have that without
41:36um fear of everything being coming
41:39public.
41:40Uh you can have those candid frank
41:41discussions dealing with personnel,
41:44uh contracts, union contracts, real
41:47estate contracts,
41:49as long as it qualifies. But, please
41:51please please remember,
41:53what goes on in an executive session
41:55needs to stay in executive session. You
41:57do not want to talk to your spouse, your
41:59neighbor, your significant other about
42:02what happened in exec session cuz once
42:04you start doing so, you can erode even
42:07some potential attorney-client issues.
42:10So, please please please do not leak
42:12what is said in exec session. Uh we've
42:14had situations before where we're in
42:16mediation and the other side knows my
42:20authority
42:21and the only way they could get my
42:22authority number
42:24was because I prepped council
42:272 weeks earlier on it and they had a
42:29leak at council member to the plaintiff.
42:32So, if we suspect that you're leaking
42:34executive session information to the
42:37other side,
42:38then we'll
42:40take you out of the equation because we
42:42can't trust it then. And we don't want
42:43to have to do that. We like to work with
42:45our members, talk to our members about
42:47what's going on with the claims and
42:49litigation, but we have to be able to
42:51trust what we're saying is going to
42:53remain in exec session. And if we don't
42:55have that trust, that's where we'll take
42:57it out.
42:59Uh question I have a question to that.
43:00So, it's when somebody's violating the
43:03um executive session, what are the
43:05what's the consequences to that
43:07immediately?
43:08>> Yeah.
43:08Uh that's a great question. You'd have
43:10to look at your own council rules and
43:12procedures and govern yourself over
43:15that. I've had council members that have
43:16been sanctioned by council over their
43:19conduct and their behavior, but this is
43:21where you have to govern yourselves over
43:23that conduct and look internally as to
43:25what your procedures say if you suspect
43:28something is happening that's violating
43:30those issues.
43:32Now, the consequences could be we could
43:34jeopardize our litigation and we could
43:37even erode attorney-client information
43:39that then has to be disclosed that
43:41wouldn't otherwise have to be disclosed
43:43to a third party.
43:46Rob?
43:47Yes.
43:49Uh
43:50to executive session again, to the
43:52content that you are we are authorized
43:55under the RCW, doesn't mean you can talk
43:58about things that you don't want the
44:00public to hear.
44:01Correct. You have to stick to the topic
44:04on hand.
44:05And so, you can't pull another subject
44:08out of the discussion.
44:09>> No, and that's where I would look to
44:11your city attorney on because obviously
44:13they have to be involved in that exec
44:14session and your city clerk to make sure
44:16that they're informing the public on the
44:18time frames and making sure that you're
44:20staying on task, on point with that
44:23topic and not going outside of that. You
44:25don't want to be violating the OPMA,
44:27Open Public Meetings Act. OPMA is a fine
44:30and penalty that WCA does not insure
44:32because that goes against public policy.
44:35If we were to indemnify you for
44:37violating the law, obviously you're
44:40encouraged to follow the law and do
44:42everything above board. So, if you
44:45don't, you can be fined and fined and
44:48penalized for those violations, but it's
44:51nothing that we would cover under a tort
44:53because it's not a tort or a civil
44:54action.
44:56Does that make sense?
44:58Same thing with public records.
45:00If you have a request for public
45:01records, you're encouraged to follow the
45:03Public Record Act and make sure that
45:06those things are properly disclosed in a
45:07timely manner and withheld according to
45:10your exemption log. And any violations
45:12of that would be a violation of the law
45:16which isn't indemnified then by WCA.
45:18It's a fine or penalty that you'd be
45:20exposed to through the state.
45:24And that's why you have two phones.
45:26Exactly.
45:28That is
45:29right on point because you do not want
45:32to be conducting city business on your
45:35personal laptop, on your personal
45:37computer, on your personal phone. If you
45:40were to do so, there have been court
45:43cases that have ruled that you have to
45:45then turn your phone over for judicial
45:48review to get the metadata on that phone
45:51cuz it is a public record if you start
45:54conducting city business utilizing your
45:58personal resources. And you don't want
45:59to have to disclose your personal
46:01computer's hard drive to a judge for a
46:02review. Same thing with your phone.
46:04That's the last thing you want to have
46:06to go through. So, use your city-issued
46:09equipment for those issues.
46:16And that that was kind of that written
46:18communications. That's where um
46:21I will talk to you about Facebook,
46:24Nextdoor,
46:25um utilization of social media for
46:29conducting city business.
46:31You do not want to use your own personal
46:33Facebook account or your own personal
46:36whatever social media account you have
46:39to conduct city business.
46:41If you do,
46:43turn off the public comments.
46:45You do not want to then screen and
46:49censor public comments because that
46:52you're creating a potential public forum
46:55when you start conducting city business
46:57on like a Facebook account and you start
46:59talking about relevant issues in the
47:01upcoming session.
47:04If you do that and then someone starts
47:07making racist, homophobic, whatever
47:10comment that's inappropriate and you
47:12want to censor that and delete it,
47:16you're violating
47:17his First Amendment rights. We've
47:19actually had cases that we've had to pay
47:24those offenders because council had done
47:27just that and the court ruled against us
47:29saying that is a First Amendment
47:32violation. You create a public forum by
47:34allowing people to make those comments
47:36on that Facebook post. You then can't
47:39turn them off. Now, if you had them off
47:41from the beginning, that's fine.
47:43Then it's not a public forum.
47:45This is you commenting. But, if you
47:47allow public comments, you have to allow
47:49them all, even the offensive.
47:53And that can be very difficult.
47:58Uh next slide.
48:00So, with that, any other questions for
48:03me? I did a lot of talking.
48:05Uh I'm not that interesting, so I'm sure
48:07you guys have to have some questions. If
48:08not, I think for your time. But, I'll
48:12Sure. Um You said earlier in your
48:15presentation you do training for
48:16employees or not. Do you do training for
48:19counselors?
48:20For individual council members? Or as a
48:23I mean, you're here as a group, right?
48:25Yes.
48:26We just do it more as a a group in the
48:28session, but we do a lot of trainings
48:30and we have a lot of resources for staff
48:33to call up. Uh we do a lot of different
48:35training topics on, you know, anything
48:38the city's doing. We have a liability
48:40build a resource manual that staff can
48:42utilize to help them with their
48:44day-to-day jobs and their interactions
48:46to help prevent those claims cuz again,
48:48the best thing we can do to keep our
48:50costs down is to prevent those claims
48:52from ever occurring in the first place.
48:54It's hard to justify the checks you
48:55don't write, but when you don't have
48:57write them, you're saving money. And
48:59every time we do have to write a check,
49:01everyone's feeling those pains.
49:05And another one if nobody else does, is
49:07is it ever appropriate for a counselor
49:09to to contact you guys directly?
49:13Hands on the situation, but nine times
49:14out of 10, no. Typically, we want to go
49:16through staff
49:18depending on the issue. If it's a
49:21related to cuz we have worked with some
49:24city councils when your role as a
49:27council dealing with um
49:30hiring or firing, termination so to
49:33speak, that's where we then sometimes
49:35work directly with a legislative body
49:37just for that role, not for the
49:40employees per se, but more for the city
49:41manager.
49:43Got you.
49:46I just want to make a comment real
49:47quick. You know, your your information
49:49that you gave to us today wasn't boring
49:51at all. It was very useful for
49:52>> Oh, thank you. Um I I took in a lot
49:56um and I um kind of took some notes and
50:00everything, but thank you for coming out
50:02here and giving us that. I appreciate
50:04it. I do this a lot um at Richland
50:06tomorrow. Uh so, I go all throughout the
50:09state of Washington. Um it's what we do.
50:11It's why we exist is to provide these
50:14services
50:15uh for our members to hopefully reduce
50:17those exposures and try to keep costs
50:19down. Nobody wants to have to pay a
50:21large insurance bill every year. Uh
50:23that's taking away your money to provide
50:25services to your community directly and
50:28we don't want to have to raise rates if
50:29we don't have to.
50:32So, thank you for your time.
50:34I just table Good. question. Um
50:37So, one of the things that we get scared
50:39or I get scared by, maybe I should just
50:41put it that way, [clears throat] is that
50:43every time that something leaks from
50:45from an executive session or every time
50:49um
50:51people start talking about uh any topic
50:54that's supposed to be confidential, I
50:57keep seeing
50:59s-
51:00liability
51:02suits. I just see them. I mean, it's
51:04with
51:05selling of [clears throat] land. It it
51:08impacts the the sale of land. I it you
51:11know, even anything else where things,
51:13like you said, could get misconstrued,
51:15taken out of order, but if the things
51:17are said,
51:19then when you get back to slander and
51:21defamation,
51:23uh with uh and liable, I mean, all of
51:25those different things are there's money
51:27attached to that. Unfortunately, there
51:29can be large dollar amounts attached to
51:32litigation. It's a industry in and of
51:34itself. There's now third parties that
51:36even fund litigation that take away from
51:39plaintiffs. We we went to the
51:40legislature to try and
51:42uh get some disclosure
51:44uh information on that and it got shot
51:47down, but it is a very lucrative
51:49industry. So, be very cognizant about
51:52that and be careful and that's where we
51:54say um
51:55call us if you need assistance. That's
51:57what we're here for to provide those
51:58tools for our members and give you those
52:01resources to the best of our ability.
52:04Does have me up follow up there on one
52:06of the ones that uh you were talking
52:08about um
52:11the Well, I I understand about social
52:13media. I try to be really careful about
52:14that, but the one thing that you said is
52:16that
52:18um when those leaks get out there Mhm.
52:21and um we have to sanction
52:25ourselves. Well, you got to look at your
52:27own rules, council rules and procedures
52:29and what's in play here at the city. I
52:32know at a city I was at, they had the
52:34ability to sanction uh individual
52:36members for leaking that information.
52:39We did some. So, that's something that
52:41you have to look internally on and
52:42self-govern based on your own rules of
52:45conduct.
52:47And just [clears throat] on that, but on
52:49on the other side, I just had a quick
52:50question also about there was a there
52:52was in your in your slides about
52:55monetary.
52:56Uh
52:57but that that you said that um there's
52:59not as many um suits against council
53:02members themselves, but there's still
53:05the council as a whole could be sued.
53:07Yes, council as a whole can or the city.
53:09It's more more likely the city's going
53:11to get sued, not the council because
53:14council you have some very good
53:16defenses. For example, you have
53:19discretionary immunity when you're
53:20allocating resources through your
53:22budget. And you say, "We're not going to
53:24fix ABC Street this year because we
53:27don't have the money for it."
53:28Technically, that's discretionary
53:30immunity for not making that fix. Now,
53:33if someone's then hurt, that doesn't
53:34mean the city won't still get sued
53:37>> [laughter]
53:37>> c- cuz we will, but council individually
53:40or as a whole has defenses, but the city
53:42has to then provide additional defenses
53:45on top of it. Okay.
53:49Anybody else? Anybody else? I have one
53:50more on the OPI, the open meeting
53:53um
53:55We we've had [clears throat] a couple of
53:56of special sections uh sessions here in
53:59the past
54:00month, 2 months, and ev- we get
54:03frequently get um we have disagreements
54:06whether it's an open meeting or not an
54:08open meeting. Executive sessions are not
54:10open meetings. No.
54:13You have to come back into public if
54:14you're going to take action, correct?
54:17That's my understanding, but I would
54:19Yes, that's how we've always operated,
54:20but you I would definitely defer to your
54:22city attorney on any sort of violation
54:25of a OPMA act because we do not come in
54:28to defend or indemnify any of those
54:31allegations, but it's my understanding
54:33that yes, if you then take action, you
54:35have to come back out in open announce
54:37it. Announce it. And come back out, but
54:40again, I defer to your city attorney on
54:41that one.
54:42So, but my main point is is that
54:45anything that's in executive session,
54:48if we're not taking action, it stays in
54:52executive session. Yes. It doesn't
54:54leave.
54:56>> No, keep it safe more secret than Vegas.
55:00So,
55:01>> [laughter]
55:02>> What stays Vegas?
55:04>> That's right.
55:05Okay. Okay.
55:08All right. So, those were my questions.
55:10Thank you.
55:15Well, thank you for your time. I do
55:16appreciate it.
55:18And good luck. Thank you. You bet. We're
55:20probably going to need that, too.
55:22>> [laughter]
55:22>> We all do. We all do. That's right.
55:27And I thank you for sending the the
55:29slides along so we could go back and
55:31review them. I I kind of took it I read
55:34them over and I was like going, "This is
55:35going to be interesting stuff." So,
55:38again, thank you.
55:39>> Glad I could help.
55:41Have a good night. You as well.
55:42>> Have a good night. Thank you.
55:47Okay, moving on to item B on the agenda,
55:50it's discussion about defense attorney
55:53agreements. I'll pass that over to you,
55:56Mr. Hill. Okay.
56:00We have um five attorneys
56:04that represent the city
56:06for uh
56:08>> [clears throat]
56:08>> defense services,
56:10public defense services.
56:12And um
56:15we also have contracts with other cities
56:17that provide that uh
56:19service on their behalf. So, those five
56:22attorneys
56:24individually have contracts.
56:26And those contracts have different time
56:30tables on them. They were not all
56:31written at the same time.
56:33Uh
56:34some of them were started back in uh
56:36from what I'm looking at, 2022,
56:39others in 2024, and that seems to be the
56:42most recent.
56:44One of those contracts,
56:46uh which I believe is the earliest one,
56:49um
56:50was uh renegotiated and uh
56:53approved for a higher rate, and their
56:56contract was amended at that higher
56:58rate.
56:59So, in successive years in the
57:01contracts, we do have a provision for
57:04CPI adjustments. It's a range of 2 to
57:065%, whatever the current CPI is,
57:10based on the
57:11criteria for what um
57:14what the zone is that we're using as
57:16CPI.
57:18So, the rates have gone up, but not as a
57:20result of any kind of renegotiation. One
57:23was renegotiated,
57:25and that rate is higher than the others.
57:28So, as you can imagine, the others are
57:30saying, "Hey, what gives? So, you know,
57:34we should be at parity."
57:36And so, um
57:38that's the the question I'm bringing
57:40before staff. The options are
57:43uh to go ahead and approve that rate
57:46increase for the other four attorneys
57:49uh at the [clears throat] so that
57:50they'll all be at the same rate. It
57:52represents about $500 a month per the
57:57other four. So, about $2,000 there total
58:01per month
58:02Hm.
58:03for the other four attorneys.
58:06Um
58:06most of these contracts, actually all of
58:08them,
58:09No, I'm sorry. Uh four of them
58:12expire.
58:14The term is over at the end of this
58:16year.
58:18So, we would then be in a position of
58:21renegotiating
58:22uh these contracts and to make them
58:25consistent all the way through.
58:28So, that's a decision that we could you
58:30could guide the staff on drafting uh the
58:34change order or if you
58:36change of payment to each of those
58:39attorneys. The other option
58:42is that we could deny them.
58:44Say, "No,
58:46we're not going to raise your rate."
58:48Then we run the risk of them
58:51choosing not to do service with the city
58:53of Sunnyside.
58:55They have a clause in there that says
58:56that they can give notice
58:58and they're they're done.
59:01At which case, now we don't have public
59:04defenders for our own city, plus the
59:07contract obligations that we have with
59:09and I haven't verified which cities they
59:11are. I apologize for that. I didn't have
59:13time to do that today, but I think it's
59:15like Toppenish and Grandview.
59:17Toppenish only? Toppenish. Toppenish
59:18only? Okay.
59:20So, we would leave them hanging and then
59:22of course, they would come back and say,
59:24"Hey, you're you violated a contract."
59:27Uh the
59:28the context of the
59:30attorney environment right now is that
59:32there's
59:33supply issues. We just don't have
59:35attorneys.
59:36And so naturally the demand is very high
59:39and you can expect that when the demand
59:41is high
59:43price is going to be high.
59:45So
59:46if we go out to the market with an RFQ
59:49which is saying we're soliciting for
59:51attorneys to represent the city
59:53we may not get any responses to that
59:56because there's not cities that want our
59:58attorneys that want to take us on.
1:00:01And which case we now we're in violation
1:00:03with the contract with our other cities
1:00:05nor do we have
1:00:07sufficient enough attorneys to defend
1:00:09who we have ourselves.
1:00:12So it's it's not a preferred place to be
1:00:16but staff recommends just going ahead
1:00:18and saying well that's just the way it
1:00:20is the market right now the demand is
1:00:22high we run the risk of not having an
1:00:24attorney to represent us.
1:00:27Do we want to take that chance?
1:00:29Probably not. The safest risk and to
1:00:33just go ahead and
1:00:35and pay the
1:00:37additional $500 to the other four so now
1:00:40they're all at parity and then at the
1:00:42end of the year we will reconcile all of
1:00:45the contracts and bring them into full
1:00:47cooperation. We do have a provision in
1:00:49there in the agreement that says if
1:00:51their service calls or their case count
1:00:53goes down
1:00:55by 10% then they can adjust their fee.
1:00:58So part of my job is going to say okay
1:01:01what is our total case count so that we
1:01:03can take that into effect if it's
1:01:05necessary.
1:01:07Um
1:01:08Julie do you have any other comments on
1:01:10that that I pretty fairly represent the
1:01:13situation that we're in right now?
1:01:16Your mic is off.
1:01:19Sorry. There you go. Just to be clear we
1:01:22are only talking about the public
1:01:23defenders so this isn't any general city
1:01:25services and whatnot but but yeah we we
1:01:27had a conversation this morning about it
1:01:30that
1:01:32you don't have to do anything but
1:01:34chances are they may give notice and
1:01:36move on so there's nothing in the
1:01:38contracts that requires you to make the
1:01:40adjustment now but it is a fairly modest
1:01:42adjustment we're not sure how the first
1:01:43one
1:01:44was ever approved or
1:01:47um
1:01:49how it ended up a little bit higher than
1:01:51the others but
1:01:53um
1:01:54you know we will be coming up to the end
1:01:55of this year and I I've talked to the
1:01:57manager about um
1:01:59reviews that we should do of comparable
1:02:01contracts to see what what the market is
1:02:02really doing for the future so we we in
1:02:05theory will get them back on track but
1:02:07this would
1:02:08would make sense for for an adjustment
1:02:11versus losing the potential service and
1:02:14defaulting on your contracts.
1:02:18Right.
1:02:19What hill do you want to die on?
1:02:22>> [laughter]
1:02:23>> So [clears throat] I have a question so
1:02:25with the the added fees can we put that
1:02:29added fees to the cities that we're
1:02:30serving to?
1:02:31Yes it'll be a pass through for the
1:02:33increase to them. Yes. Would they have
1:02:35to would they need a notice for all
1:02:37that?
1:02:38I would imagine but
1:02:40this is a cost of service
1:02:42they're paying the rate that we're
1:02:44currently charging them and if our rates
1:02:46go up it's going to
1:02:48affect their rates.
1:02:48>> I'm sure I haven't looked at the
1:02:50contract but I'm sure there's a
1:02:51provision in there that accommodates
1:02:53that kind of rate increase. And my
1:02:54second question is do we need all five
1:02:57of the attorneys?
1:02:59I believe we do.
1:03:01Um Just just based on the number of case
1:03:04loads. Yeah.
1:03:07I think I'm wrong. There's waiting your
1:03:09life.
1:03:12Excuse me I'm Right. I I believe we need
1:03:14all five. I mean at some point this
1:03:16decision was made to have all five based
1:03:18on the case loads. And keep it keep
1:03:20>> And that's why we have five. Um
1:03:23Um we're going to do a little bit deeper
1:03:26dive as to how these agreements are
1:03:29drafted because typically you hire a
1:03:31firm and they have staff people
1:03:34that handle that case load or that
1:03:36quantity. In these cases it seems like
1:03:38it's individual contracts with
1:03:40individual attorneys and and and one of
1:03:43them is a husband and wife team so
1:03:45they're getting the double
1:03:47double the increase.
1:03:48Did her husband wife?
1:03:50>> Well there's two that are
1:03:52joined as a as a firm but not
1:03:54necessarily listed as a husband and
1:03:56wife.
1:03:57They but generally when they have the
1:03:59same last name I can just assume that
1:04:00they are husband and wife.
1:04:03So that's
1:04:05you know it's not
1:04:07again the tipping point became when the
1:04:10one was increased
1:04:12now it
1:04:13pretty much opens the door for the
1:04:15others to ask the same.
1:04:18Um
1:04:20And and and to kind of touch on on
1:04:22Chavez's question as do we need all five
1:04:25I I think over the years the the city
1:04:27has done it on has done a poor job
1:04:31uh
1:04:32you know having having these defendants
1:04:35even sign an affidavit that that they
1:04:36even
1:04:38can't afford an attorney right? Um
1:04:41We don't have any sort of procedure any
1:04:43sort of any sort of form that they need
1:04:45to sign. Yakima County does. Other other
1:04:49courts do have it. And if we're just
1:04:52taking the word you know to the
1:04:55defendant hey can you afford an
1:04:56attorney? They're always going to say
1:04:58no.
1:04:59And that's where the city
1:05:01is responsible in having some sort of
1:05:03procedure in place to kind of verify
1:05:06some of this some of this stuff because
1:05:08now we're spending you know thousands of
1:05:10dollars each year and and and defending
1:05:13and you know providing defense attorneys
1:05:15to individuals that quite possibly might
1:05:17be able to afford it. In in the state of
1:05:19Washington does have some RCWs in place
1:05:22that say you know it's it's 125%
1:05:25above poverty level you know wages or
1:05:28whatnot. And we're not doing that right
1:05:30now. Right now
1:05:32the way I look at it we're gifting
1:05:34public funds
1:05:35by by providing these these attorneys
1:05:37just to anybody that comes before before
1:05:40us and and just says
1:05:42I can't afford it.
1:05:44I recognize that I'm sure there's um
1:05:48safeguards that others have adopted that
1:05:51we could take a look at
1:05:53and and would be a part of our
1:05:56evaluation policy.
1:05:59Um
1:06:00To to address the problem I I haven't
1:06:03had a chance to look at it and so I'm
1:06:05not sure how we authorize public defense
1:06:09and how what the what the um
1:06:12validation is.
1:06:13>> The the the state of Washington does
1:06:14provide a form that the cities can use
1:06:17as a template that where they fill out
1:06:19and we don't do that.
1:06:21What
1:06:22I was going to ask Julie
1:06:25Go ahead. Julie what do you advise for
1:06:28for process? Do you know what the what
1:06:30the form requires them to fill out? I
1:06:33forgot what the name was I
1:06:35No I don't have it in front of me.
1:06:36>> I'm under the I was under the
1:06:37understanding too that in the state of
1:06:39Washington all you have to say is you
1:06:41can't afford but
1:06:42is is are there other documents that um
1:06:47have to be submitted
1:06:49like an affidavit or how could we
1:06:52improve process?
1:06:53>> There's there's a form but it's a very
1:06:57a very limited form that's basically
1:07:00taken on oath
1:07:02by the individual.
1:07:05Um
1:07:07I would have to look into what specific
1:07:09requirements are because it's a little
1:07:10outside of the scope of what what I
1:07:12typically work on
1:07:14um
1:07:14but it's pretty easy to get a public
1:07:16defender and now with case load
1:07:19with case load requirements
1:07:21um
1:07:22changes now we're going to need more
1:07:24public defenders because because
1:07:27attorneys are now limited on the
1:07:29number of cases that we can do.
1:07:37Were you going to Is there any guidance
1:07:39that the council would like to give me?
1:07:42Are we going to move ahead with the
1:07:44increase
1:07:45that we're you know justify uh
1:07:48or are we going to go out with an RFQ
1:07:50and start from scratch and let these
1:07:52pass? Go ahead counselor Dolan.
1:07:56I was curious if we can get some kind of
1:07:59a record to show us
1:08:01uh
1:08:02>> [clears throat]
1:08:02>> what are these?
1:08:04Like we get we get we were paying
1:08:08overload for a couple of different years
1:08:11on cases that happened
1:08:14two years ago and a year ago and and
1:08:17then
1:08:18we
1:08:19are we just supposed to accept it oh
1:08:20this happened?
1:08:22We don't have any kind of of proof that
1:08:24says oh well
1:08:26yeah we had this many cases.
1:08:28There's no there we aren't given any
1:08:30kind of a record of the of what took
1:08:32place in those courts and
1:08:35Correct.
1:08:37And [clears throat] that's one of the
1:08:38things that Julie asked me about is our
1:08:39current case load count what that what
1:08:42that number is. They do have what I call
1:08:44a true up at the end of the year that if
1:08:46they exceed that amount which is under
1:08:49contract 300 cases per year that's what
1:08:51they're
1:08:52allowed for that fee. If it exceeds that
1:08:55amount then there's a true up that makes
1:08:57up that difference.
1:08:59Um because this is just a flat kind of
1:09:01retainer fee for the year
1:09:04and so we would observe by knowing the
1:09:07number if it's dropped down if it's you
1:09:09know 10% or less
1:09:11then we would say hey there's got to be
1:09:13a compensation return for serving less
1:09:16than the 300.
1:09:18Go ahead. Um
1:09:19>> [clears throat]
1:09:20>> thank you. One of the things and and
1:09:22Julie can maybe help help out with the
1:09:24answer on this but it takes sometimes it
1:09:27takes a while to get what looks like it
1:09:30should be a simple case through the
1:09:32court. But the attorneys, I don't know
1:09:35that they do, but it's it seems to me
1:09:37like it might be a loophole for them to
1:09:39keep adding that one case and every time
1:09:42they work on it it's a new case. I'm
1:09:44pretty sure that's not okay.
1:09:47I could be wrong, but seems like that
1:09:51most of the time they take longer than
1:09:54you know, you got arrested today and you
1:09:56and you get to go to court tomorrow.
1:09:58Well, you might get to go to court
1:09:59tomorrow for guilty or not guilty or or
1:10:02a bail being put on you.
1:10:04But that's not solved that doesn't
1:10:07actually um
1:10:10address the whether the court dates that
1:10:13they have and then those things run on
1:10:14and [clears throat] on and on.
1:10:15>> Right.
1:10:17Just to back up a a little bit on the
1:10:20decision process. One of these well, two
1:10:22of them are saying if we don't get the
1:10:25rate increase
1:10:27Mhm. we're going to move on. Mhm.
1:10:30Because there's a demand
1:10:32for additional attorneys and there's
1:10:34options that they have to go to other
1:10:36locations.
1:10:37We don't like to be in that no choice
1:10:40kind of situation, but that's kind of
1:10:42where we're at.
1:10:43Um
1:10:44the risk is going out to find a
1:10:46replacement attorney and then not being
1:10:48able to find that. And the demand is
1:10:50such that we so pretty significant
1:10:54probability [clears throat] that we
1:10:54could not find additional attorneys.
1:10:57And you said that in when you
1:10:59um we could renegotiate. Right. At the
1:11:02these contracts end largely in 2026. So,
1:11:05we're going to start all over here in at
1:11:07the end of this year.
1:11:09And um because they all expire at that
1:11:11time. That was kind of
1:11:13Thank you for answering that cuz I was I
1:11:15was going to just ask if that There's
1:11:17one there's one that extends to 2028,
1:11:20but if we're going to change the rate
1:11:21for one, they're going to expect that
1:11:22everybody's going to be the same. So,
1:11:24that's what we want to do. I think
1:11:26that's that for me, you know, just
1:11:29talking about it, I think we might as
1:11:30well just do that. Just go ahead and
1:11:32bring them all up to the same the same
1:11:35level so nobody's getting more than the
1:11:36other. And then look at it at the end of
1:11:38the year if we can figure out a way to
1:11:41uh renegotiate
1:11:44Yeah, and if I could Miss Hart to your
1:11:46comment
1:11:48about what is considered a
1:11:50a case or what they're working on. Mhm.
1:11:53The
1:11:54the
1:11:55attorney's standards weight the cases
1:11:58based on misdemeanor and felonies and
1:12:00things of that nature. So, it's not per
1:12:02time you work on it like a bill hourly
1:12:05billable. It's it's actually
1:12:07the times you're engaged in
1:12:10defending this particular claim, this
1:12:12citation, this whatever. It's all
1:12:14considered one case.
1:12:16Um the new standards they adopted don't
1:12:18adopt the waiting.
1:12:20So, these attorneys are now by 2030
1:12:25six, we have to have all the attorneys
1:12:28down to 120 cases regardless of whether
1:12:31they're misdemeanor or felonies.
1:12:34And felonies used to be weighted at like
1:12:3575. So, a an attorney could have 75
1:12:39felonies or 120 misdemeanors, you know,
1:12:42not to exceed
1:12:44a 300 total count.
1:12:46So, they didn't adopt the waiting. So,
1:12:48everything is the same, but we're going
1:12:50to be no defense attorney will be able
1:12:52to have more than 120 cases
1:12:55um
1:12:56by the year we have to phase it down.
1:12:58So, by the year um
1:13:002036.
1:13:03Which is why you need all the attorneys.
1:13:05So, so just for the record, Sunnyside
1:13:07Court doesn't handle any felony cases.
1:13:09They just handle the misdemeanors.
1:13:12I believe that's correct. We don't
1:13:14handle felony cases, just misdemeanors.
1:13:16>> yeah. So, And
1:13:19and going back to the the increase, what
1:13:21a few questions that I would like to
1:13:22know, right? I'm I'm giving a scenario
1:13:24right now is
1:13:26you know, when when they come in here
1:13:27and they get assigned a public attorney
1:13:28and and I'm I'm saying because I
1:13:30recently talked to somebody that was
1:13:32assigned a public attorney.
1:13:33Person couldn't get a hold of this
1:13:34public attorney for about a week. So,
1:13:37now he decided to get his own attorney.
1:13:39So, what happens does that count as a
1:13:43as a case? Cuz he got assigned to it at
1:13:45the the beginning of the
1:13:47of the court case.
1:13:48And and if it doesn't count, who's
1:13:50holding them accountable because
1:13:52in 2025, there is a website where you
1:13:55can go in there and you can look at all
1:13:57the case case counts per city, per
1:13:59county. Mhm. And I looked at the one for
1:14:01Sunnyside for 2025 and
1:14:04we're we're golden, you know, we we
1:14:06didn't go over it. But now we have these
1:14:08invoices of attorneys that, you know,
1:14:10giving us an invoice for case overload.
1:14:13From last year. For 2025. That's
1:14:16something I would definitely have to
1:14:17look at your contract because every time
1:14:18they they get assigned, they could count
1:14:20that as a case, but they are going to
1:14:22have situations where there's either
1:14:23conflicts, they're conflicted out. So,
1:14:26they so they have to give it up. I don't
1:14:28know well enough based on their
1:14:30contracts when it's considered a case. I
1:14:33think it's just if they have to go to
1:14:35the arraignment on them, they get to
1:14:36consider that.
1:14:38And then if they switch counsel later
1:14:44I I would need to look into those those
1:14:45contracts.
1:14:48If we wanted to go down to that level,
1:14:50but that was one of the things that Pat
1:14:51and I talked about was
1:14:53getting a better understanding of what
1:14:54the the Sunnyside total case count is.
1:14:59>> [clears throat]
1:15:00>> You know, that
1:15:02there may be I understand what you're
1:15:04saying and and and I'd like to believe
1:15:05that that's a little bit of an outlier
1:15:07for what attorneys do that, you know,
1:15:09they have some integrity that if they
1:15:11don't take any case, they're not billing
1:15:13you for it.
1:15:14Uh and so that there may be an outlier
1:15:17that would do that, but I don't think we
1:15:19should judge all attorneys as having
1:15:22that No, and I'm not
1:15:23>> compromise of anything, but I mean yeah.
1:15:25That you know, people would get lost,
1:15:27get a mile, whatever they
1:15:29whatever happens happens.
1:15:31Okay.
1:15:33I think I understand you want me to move
1:15:34forward. What is the direction?
1:15:37I think that's
1:15:37>> Mr. Haley's awaiting.
1:15:42I personally think you should just go
1:15:43ahead and move ahead with the changing
1:15:45of the contracts.
1:15:46I agree for now until like again, we're
1:15:49going to have to they're going to expire
1:15:51anyway, so take look back again. We can
1:15:54reevaluate [clears throat]
1:15:54it at the end of the year. Can can we
1:15:57get a copy of the contract?
1:15:59Or can we get a copy of the contract not
1:16:01right now, but you know, once it it does
1:16:04Do do we need one?
1:16:06Just check it out.
1:16:07>> Contracts are all the same. So, I could
1:16:09give you one, but they all basically say
1:16:11the same and they're it's kind of a
1:16:13template contract. Yeah, the rate is
1:16:15listed there, the case load and the
1:16:17term. It may be different when when
1:16:20their term expires, but they're
1:16:21basically the same. And and I have a
1:16:24kind of a spreadsheet that talks about
1:16:26what their current rate is and and
1:16:29they're all uniform up until
1:16:32they were all uniform up until this one
1:16:34attorney got his increased.
1:16:36And by that step
1:16:39it just invited the others to say, "Hey,
1:16:41what gives?" you know, and so that's why
1:16:44I'm here.
1:16:45I don't know who made that decision.
1:16:47Well, it was made at an executive level,
1:16:49but I don't know what the authorization
1:16:51was for that increase.
1:16:55Julie, do we need a vote or do we just
1:16:56need to provide Mr. Haley direction?
1:16:59You can just provide him a direction
1:17:00because then when these result in
1:17:02amendments to their contracts, then
1:17:04you'll approve them through a vote.
1:17:06Okay. So, it seems like the consent At
1:17:08next council meeting, I'll have
1:17:10an agenda item for that. Okay. Thank
1:17:12you.
1:17:13Okay. [clears throat]
1:17:14So, moving on to item C.
1:17:17And per the amendment, this has to do
1:17:21with the collaboration getting a
1:17:23passing
1:17:25um
1:17:26a vote to enter into a collaboration
1:17:28with Yakima Valley College
1:17:30and the city of Sunnyside's
1:17:33for a career fair as slash job fair.
1:17:37Um tentatively happening on April 22nd
1:17:40and I say tentatively because I'm not
1:17:43too sure of the date.
1:17:46I'd have to
1:17:49Oh, here it is.
1:17:51It is for April 22nd.
1:17:54Um
1:17:55per the discussion a little bit earlier,
1:17:58if this is voted on and approved, then
1:18:01the city of Sunnyside sponsors
1:18:03um and um
1:18:06YVC won't have to pay for um the rental
1:18:11fees
1:18:12for the community center.
1:18:14What is the desire of council on this
1:18:16item?
1:18:18For the collaboration with the Yakima
1:18:19Valley College.
1:18:21I move to approve.
1:18:23I'll second.
1:18:26Be Ramon.
1:18:28I think I think if we state what we're
1:18:30doing, it might be a little bit cleaner.
1:18:33Um you can steal my you can steal the Do
1:18:35you have one I I have one He he wrote
1:18:38one down. I just wrote it real quick.
1:18:40But Want me to read it to the record?
1:18:44Mhm? Yeah, go ahead.
1:18:45Let's read it into the record. We got a
1:18:47We got a motion and a second. So, who
1:18:49who is second?
1:18:50>> As written. Okay. Who is this?
1:18:54So, um I'd like to entertain a motion
1:18:58to approve the city of Sunnyside
1:18:59sponsoring the sponsor the event of the
1:19:01community center with YVC for the costs
1:19:04of the rental fee.
1:19:07Yeah.
1:19:08Is there there was a motion?
1:19:09>> There was a motion by Tom Dolan seconded
1:19:13by Chavez.
1:19:14Okay. Is there discussion?
1:19:16>> Ramon Chavez.
1:19:19No discussion?
1:19:20Um I'll initiate a roll call. Counselor
1:19:23Chavez? Yes.
1:19:24Councilor Sesati?
1:19:30Oh, you were Read her lips. Yes.
1:19:32>> [laughter]
1:19:33>> Councilor Vasquez? Yes.
1:19:35Councilor Dolan? Yes.
1:19:38Councilor Galvan? Yes. Deputy Mayor
1:19:40Hurt? Yes. I two vote yes. Motion
1:19:42carries.
1:19:44Okay. And then item D is um the interim
1:19:48city manager's report.
1:19:51Just want to keep you updated on the
1:19:53tasks that I'm working on.
1:19:55Uh, we have
1:19:57two of our IT guys in here and I I'm
1:20:00sure you know Jafet, but Leo is part of
1:20:04our staff and he is
1:20:06um
1:20:08he's a backup. So, Jafet is his backup
1:20:11cuz he's going to take a larger role in
1:20:14handling the IT components.
1:20:16You need to know that he's not a clerk.
1:20:18>> [laughter]
1:20:19>> And he can't
1:20:21give any kind of input on clerk
1:20:23activities or formalities or
1:20:25documentation. He's just running the IT
1:20:29equipment.
1:20:30And I'm grateful for that because that's
1:20:32a big deal. Very important.
1:20:34Just to give you a progress report. We
1:20:37are
1:20:38connecting the staff. I'm connecting
1:20:40with the staff and we got great people
1:20:42we work with and
1:20:44my heart is with them. You know, I'm
1:20:45trying to
1:20:47um
1:20:49give them some sense of okay, we're
1:20:50we've got sunny side up here. We're
1:20:52moving on. We're going to stabilize
1:20:54things and
1:20:55uh
1:20:57providing some [clears throat]
1:20:57leadership.
1:20:59One of the things that I I want to talk
1:21:01with the council is that in addition to
1:21:03providing a good team effort on the
1:21:05[snorts] part of the city staff
1:21:07is to find ways of making this council
1:21:10work. One of the questions was asked by
1:21:12the insurance agent, do you provide
1:21:13training for council members?
1:21:16And I think I heard him say yes, maybe
1:21:18collectively.
1:21:20But I would like to uh submit to the
1:21:22council members uh some
1:21:24a training that at that you would do
1:21:26individually
1:21:27uh on being an ideal team player.
1:21:31Because there's some challenges that we
1:21:33have here and and some
1:21:35appropriate views on things,
1:21:38but we need to work best as a team
1:21:40because it's we've had a big transition
1:21:43in significant leadership roles.
1:21:46And and not to put it too dramatically,
1:21:48it's had some impact on staff cuz it's
1:21:50kind of demoralizing when you you don't
1:21:52know who's next or who's going to be
1:21:53calling the shots here and
1:21:55and they're wondering, what's my future
1:21:57like?
1:21:58Um
1:21:59and and you lose
1:22:01this this esprit de corps. If you if you
1:22:04want to understand what I mean by that
1:22:06term, you just lose the spirit of the
1:22:07group. You know, it's like
1:22:10where we going to go here? Who who's
1:22:11going to lead us? And so
1:22:13um [clears throat] one of the videos I
1:22:15am a big proponent of, I showed to the
1:22:17staff and I got tremendous response from
1:22:19them and it's called how to be an ideal
1:22:21team player.
1:22:23It's by Patrick Lencioni and he's an
1:22:25expert in the area of teamwork and um
1:22:29he's written several topics on this
1:22:31subject as it relates to leadership. So,
1:22:33I'd like to provide you with a like a
1:22:3535-minute YouTube video. You can watch
1:22:37it on your own
1:22:39and it's called the ideal
1:22:41components
1:22:42of a team player. How to be an ideal
1:22:44team player.
1:22:46And it really lists three things that
1:22:48make a person or an organization a ideal
1:22:51team. One, humble. Two, hungry. Three,
1:22:56smart.
1:22:58Humble is what you would imagine the
1:23:00definition to be, the opposite of pride
1:23:02and arrogance.
1:23:03Hungry has to do with how hard you put
1:23:07how much work you put into your job. Are
1:23:09you a slacker?
1:23:11Go soft or do you really do your job to
1:23:14the best of your abilities? And then
1:23:16smart has nothing to do with anything
1:23:18related to your intelligence, but how
1:23:20you manage your words
1:23:22and understanding the impact of what
1:23:24your words are on other people.
1:23:26Because what we say has an impact and it
1:23:31can create tension as a result of
1:23:35being unconscious of the of the reaction
1:23:38of that.
1:23:39You can't have just one of those things
1:23:41and be an ideal team. You have to have
1:23:43all three working together.
1:23:45For example, if you have a guy who's
1:23:47really hungry, but he's not very humble
1:23:49and he's not very smart, he's just a
1:23:51bulldozer. He just plows through people,
1:23:53runs over them and doesn't really care
1:23:56about the impact cuz it's all about him.
1:23:58But I think if we paid attention to some
1:24:00of this stuff, we would find ways of
1:24:02working better together. So, I just
1:24:03propose that. I'll send you an email
1:24:05link to that.
1:24:07You guys can watch it on your own time.
1:24:08It's about 35 minutes. I can assure you
1:24:11you will really benefit from it. Not
1:24:13only as a council, but you can take this
1:24:15home to your family, your work, your
1:24:17kids. It's has massive cross
1:24:20application.
1:24:22So, that's the update. We are going to
1:24:24be interviewing
1:24:26what we're calling executive assistants,
1:24:28deputy clerks
1:24:30on Thursday. We've got five applicants
1:24:32that we think are well qualified for the
1:24:34position.
1:24:36The clerk role is
1:24:38a
1:24:38>> [clears throat]
1:24:39>> more significant role. I I what my hope
1:24:41is is to find somebody who can serve as
1:24:43a kind of a mentor or an intern, I mean
1:24:46interim,
1:24:47so that they know the ropes and with
1:24:49these new people they can kind of
1:24:51nurture them along because they won't
1:24:53have the certifications, they won't have
1:24:55the clerk certification or the public
1:24:57records officer certification that's
1:24:59required to be a clerk.
1:25:01It's training that you have to go
1:25:02through, so while we go through the
1:25:05search process of finding somebody with
1:25:07that classification,
1:25:09we'll still have somebody to handle some
1:25:11of the paperwork and things that are
1:25:13going around uh the city hall to respond
1:25:17to agendas and communication and all
1:25:19that stuff cuz right now everybody's
1:25:21tapped or doesn't know what to do.
1:25:25So, that's the strategy that I have
1:25:27right now at this point is to look at
1:25:30the interviews,
1:25:31still go after permanent city clerk.
1:25:34Quick question. Yes, sir.
1:25:36I know that with with the city clerk you
1:25:37had said that maybe you were going to,
1:25:39you know, take the social media
1:25:41component away.
1:25:42>> Right. Is that something that the
1:25:44assistant city clerk might be picking up
1:25:46just because I know from [clears throat]
1:25:48from Yeah. beginning, you know, the
1:25:49council was big on having, you know,
1:25:51social media posts and make sure that
1:25:53the public knows, you know, Right. The
1:25:55communication component isn't commonly
1:25:57put together with a clerk position.
1:25:59That's almost a separate skill set.
1:26:01Uh right now we're mark we're we're
1:26:03we're um
1:26:04we're farming that out. We're
1:26:05contracting that out to provide that
1:26:07service.
1:26:08Um it would be nice to have it in house.
1:26:11It's usually under the title of public
1:26:13information officer {slash}
1:26:16communication director. Some cities have
1:26:18a public information officer.
1:26:20Uh but you're right. Some of these
1:26:22deputies might have enough savvy in that
1:26:24background.
1:26:26The clerk is really the legal components
1:26:28of operating a city. That that's really
1:26:30got to pay attention to. You know,
1:26:31public records requests, filing
1:26:33ordinances,
1:26:35records retention, all that stuff.
1:26:36Somebody needs to know the ins and outs
1:26:38of that.
1:26:39I'm sorry.
1:26:40So, I got a question. So, I know that we
1:26:43had quite a bit of people apply for the
1:26:44positions. Right.
1:26:46>> Have you guys uh as are the people that
1:26:48applied for those positions pretty sure
1:26:50some of most of them are local. Are
1:26:51those the ones that we're looking at for
1:26:53our for interviewing?
1:26:55Uh
1:26:56Heath, our human resource person is the
1:26:58filter for those applications. Many of
1:27:01them are just people looking for jobs
1:27:03and they work at McDonald's and they
1:27:04think, oh, secretary position, I can do
1:27:06that. And so they
1:27:08uh and you get some people who are on
1:27:10unemployment and have to put in, you
1:27:11know, three applications per week and
1:27:13you know, so you have a lot of
1:27:16uh
1:27:17stuff that is
1:27:19is pre-filtered.
1:27:20So, uh to get back to your question and
1:27:24let me ask you one more time so I can
1:27:25make sure I answer correctly.
1:27:27Your question about who we are
1:27:29interviewing?
1:27:30Well, my question is really are we
1:27:34taking account to the people that did
1:27:36apply?
1:27:37Did we contact them and ask them if
1:27:40about the procedure of what's going to
1:27:41happen or are we just filtering the five
1:27:44from the the pool that came in?
1:27:47We are filtering the five and and these
1:27:50are not for a clerk job cuz none of them
1:27:53qualify. All of them will say, hey,
1:27:55we'll go I'll go through the training,
1:27:56but you know, we we have to have that's
1:27:58why we need to have an interim clerk to
1:28:00make sure that we're not filing that
1:28:02responsibility up. So, they'll that
1:28:04interim will serve as kind of the
1:28:06mentor, coach, instructor. Doesn't have
1:28:09to be full-time. Can be like one or two
1:28:11days a week just to kind of carry the
1:28:13ball so that we don't have anything fall
1:28:15through the cracks. So, the people that
1:28:17we're interviewing now are what we would
1:28:19my title
1:28:20>> [clears throat]
1:28:20>> an executive assistant or administrative
1:28:22assistant {slash} deputy clerk.
1:28:25They could move into that, but they
1:28:26still have to go through a significant
1:28:28amount of training and certification to
1:28:30get there. And none of them have that
1:28:32right now, so
1:28:33um we're still going to look for a
1:28:35clerk, but we're going to do something
1:28:37to keep
1:28:39things moving smoothly along cuz I
1:28:42I don't have any background in being a
1:28:44clerk. And so
1:28:46I don't know what to tell anybody what
1:28:47to do.
1:28:49Yes.
1:28:51I just wanted to say a comment. I just
1:28:52want to say I know that we've pretty
1:28:53much all felt the immense absence of not
1:28:56having a city clerk around. Like all of
1:28:57us have. And with that being said, I
1:28:59just want to say thank you, Jafet, for
1:29:01like helping out with the IT and doing
1:29:04even like more things above and beyond
1:29:06your scope of work. Just thank you for
1:29:07that. But just I just like a reminder
1:29:10for us all, you know, like we just need
1:29:11to remember that he he's not a city
1:29:14clerk. Like he has no experience in that
1:29:16role whatsoever and um as even though
1:29:19he's helping um let's just like remember
1:29:21that and and I say it for myself because
1:29:24I've had so many questions that I've had
1:29:26that I would usually turn to Jackie for
1:29:29or an example like our phone numbers
1:29:31changed, right? And the are the numbers
1:29:33updated on the website or certain things
1:29:36with the agenda like I just sent an
1:29:37agenda to Hector um and I just wanted to
1:29:40make sure that it was all posted.
1:29:42For economic development, I would always
1:29:44go to Jackie and now I've been kind of
1:29:46stuck and wondering who do I ask and I
1:29:50automatically want to ask Jafet but then
1:29:52I right away remember wait like I'm like
1:29:55I'm not going to put extra workload on
1:29:57him cuz I'm sure he's very busy as it
1:29:59is. So um but with that being said, I
1:30:01just want to say thank you Jafet for
1:30:03just going above and beyond and for
1:30:04doing things that maybe you you probably
1:30:07didn't expect to do but thank you for
1:30:09that. It says a lot about you.
1:30:12I should also mention that uh we utilize
1:30:14technology
1:30:16for our a lot of our uh agenda
1:30:18preparation and and things like that. So
1:30:20we have software that does that work.
1:30:23However, if you've never used that
1:30:25software before, you usually bring in a
1:30:28trainer to show you how to do it. So
1:30:30once you know how to use it, it's piece
1:30:31cake. But if you have no idea
1:30:35even guy like Jafet had a hard time
1:30:37figuring out and if something if it's
1:30:39hard for him, you can imagine
1:30:42what anybody else would have to deal
1:30:43with. So
1:30:45And the old ways of just typing up
1:30:47something and you know, throwing it out
1:30:48in the paper there but
1:30:50we've we've moved beyond that with the
1:30:52advent of technology and technology is
1:30:54great if you know how to use it but it
1:30:56can be a little slower if if you're just
1:30:58having to figure it out yourself. So
1:31:02I just
1:31:04question oh No, go ahead. Um so uh
1:31:06counselor Chavez, I met with the
1:31:09interim city manager Mr. Haley on Friday
1:31:12and I I asked the same question cuz um
1:31:15there's been people that have applied
1:31:16that have reached out and um not people
1:31:19that I personally know or even told
1:31:20about the job posting but um they know
1:31:23that we're on council so they reach out
1:31:25and um
1:31:26uh some I haven't gone back to um but I
1:31:29did ask like who I direct them to
1:31:31cuz I did have that same question what
1:31:32happens with everybody else who has
1:31:34applied uh now that um the search is
1:31:37looking a little bit different um and
1:31:41question for for for Julie um
1:31:44so um just to understand the city clerk
1:31:47position cuz Mr. Haley and I were having
1:31:49this conversation on Friday about the
1:31:52city the new city clerk needing to have
1:31:54the city clerk certifications. Uh is it
1:31:57a a requirement to have to for them to
1:31:59have city clerk certifications
1:32:02uh in order for someone to be hired? I
1:32:06know it's ideal, right?
1:32:08But is it a requirement? I'm not aware
1:32:10of a legal requirement that they have to
1:32:12have the certifications but they
1:32:14certainly should be working for them and
1:32:15going to all of the trainings and
1:32:17whatnot. Um you know, if you can find
1:32:21somebody with the certifications,
1:32:22they're going to be at the top of your
1:32:23applicant pool. Right. Um so I it would
1:32:26be something I would put as a desired
1:32:29quality but no, it's it's not there's
1:32:32nothing in the RCW that says you must be
1:32:35certified.
1:32:37Okay.
1:32:38>> [clears throat]
1:32:39>> I just don't know like if is this going
1:32:40to put us in any liability for us not
1:32:42responding to them because we they don't
1:32:45have the clerk certification when
1:32:48they're not necessarily required per
1:32:49state statute or
1:32:51Well, there's
1:32:52I mean
1:32:54there's no requirement to respond to
1:32:56them anyway.
1:32:59I mean I maybe I'm not following the
1:33:01question.
1:33:03Um so you're No, I think you are um
1:33:06because so I there's a several people
1:33:09that have reached out either um via
1:33:14email or you know, I run into them
1:33:17um at the store and they're asking or if
1:33:21it's on the internet and they're asking
1:33:22and I haven't referred them to anybody
1:33:25until I talked to Mr. Haley on Friday
1:33:28cuz I was wondering what the process
1:33:30was. So people are awaiting an answer.
1:33:33So we are not required to answer back to
1:33:36them but it would wouldn't even be it
1:33:38should be at least common courtesy for
1:33:39us to respond to them
1:33:41uh and let them know that we've moved on
1:33:43with a different approach but
1:33:46the fact that we're forgoing the people
1:33:48that have applied because they don't
1:33:50have a city clerk certification
1:33:53I'm wondering if that's also okay to do.
1:33:57So my understanding was that that there
1:34:00was a communication going out uh because
1:34:03originally the the posting or the
1:34:05advertisement went out for the clerk
1:34:07communications role and per the last
1:34:10meeting, the city manager said that we
1:34:13were going to split the roles and just
1:34:14be re-
1:34:16change the salary and just be
1:34:17advertising for the for the clerk
1:34:19position and that there was going to be
1:34:21some form of communication that this
1:34:23change had been made and so if those who
1:34:25had already put in an application were
1:34:27still interested in the new position,
1:34:29they'd have the ability to apply for the
1:34:31new position. If you are getting
1:34:34questions out in community about the
1:34:36requirements, I would just defer them
1:34:38say, "Hey, we've posted the information
1:34:40on our city webpage. You know, I don't
1:34:42want to misspeak on what the
1:34:43qualifications we're looking for now
1:34:45are. Go go there if you're interested
1:34:46and it'll tell you you know, what the
1:34:48requirements are,
1:34:50who to apply to and and what the
1:34:52deadlines are."
1:34:54Okay. And I've refrained from from
1:34:56answering anyone because I don't want to
1:34:58overstep because I'm not the one
1:35:00overseeing the process.
1:35:02That's the city manager.
1:35:04Um so I did pose that question but now
1:35:07that I know that those other folks
1:35:09haven't been reached out to, I feel like
1:35:11we should at least let them know that
1:35:13we've moved another way and if
1:35:15now if they're wanting to reapply, then
1:35:18that's another option for them but
1:35:20[clears throat] it's going to look a
1:35:20little different.
1:35:23Correct. We had decided that that those
1:35:25who applied for the previous version
1:35:29which is clerk {slash} communication
1:35:31director
1:35:32we would contact them and say, "We have
1:35:35redefined that position now that we're
1:35:36advertising
1:35:38cuz we thought it's not fair for them
1:35:42to
1:35:43apply and then change the wage rate
1:35:45because we changed the wage rate." So
1:35:48you said you did call them and let them
1:35:50know?
1:35:51Uh that was the intent. So I haven't
1:35:53checked to double-check with our human
1:35:56resource director to see if he's
1:35:57actually done that. I will make a note
1:36:00to that and if he hasn't, I'll make sure
1:36:02that he will. Thank you.
1:36:05Mr.
1:36:06Okay.
1:36:08Anything else? You had a question.
1:36:10I don't remember now.
1:36:12I think it's been answered.
1:36:16Anybody else have any questions? Nope.
1:36:20Um Or Mr. Haley? I've already his
1:36:22report. Oh, I know. I was going to jump
1:36:25on to something else but
1:36:27um
1:36:29so
1:36:31you'll have some some kind of an update
1:36:33on that for us at our Monday night
1:36:35meeting, did you say?
1:36:37Possibly? Correct. Um as I said, we are
1:36:40going to interview some applicants here
1:36:42and that's for our current clerk
1:36:43position. It's at a different wage
1:36:45structure but it's our current clerk
1:36:46position. Get somebody here. We're going
1:36:49to try to find the most qualified of
1:36:50those applicants.
1:36:52Preferably somebody with a public sector
1:36:54background.
1:36:55And there are some that are in that
1:36:57category, not necessarily municipality
1:36:59but in another public sector
1:37:02which is close enough, you know, we'll
1:37:04we'll take that.
1:37:05Uh so far nobody with the certifications
1:37:07that we would hope to have
1:37:09uh especially [clears throat] for a city
1:37:10our size with the volume of things that
1:37:13go on here. Um
1:37:15So anyway, uh
1:37:16that's I'll have that information. We
1:37:18won't hire anybody without your without
1:37:20your knowledge of that.
1:37:25All right.
1:37:26There's no more questions for you, Mr.
1:37:29Off to executive session.
1:37:30>> Okay.
1:37:31Could I just before we go into
1:37:33executive, could I just ask uh
1:37:35one question that's not related to what
1:37:38we've been talking about but it's
1:37:39certainly something I um
1:37:42um
1:37:43was hoping to to talk uh
1:37:46um
1:37:47George over here regarding the uh the
1:37:50moratorium on the
1:37:52uh sexual uh
1:37:54offenders registry and where housing was
1:37:57going to go. Is that and and
1:38:00[clears throat] you is that something
1:38:01that we probably should send to the
1:38:03planning commission to start looking at
1:38:06what zoning
1:38:08uh might be compatible
1:38:11for
1:38:12whether it should be load in dense high
1:38:15density residential, low in in density,
1:38:19those kinds of things. So you have you
1:38:22have codes [clears throat] right now
1:38:24representing
1:38:25certain housing requirements. And so if
1:38:28this is um
1:38:29a departure from those codes, they would
1:38:31have to submit a variance.
1:38:33And a variance is decided by hearing
1:38:36examiner if whether or not it complies
1:38:39with city code and doesn't have impacts
1:38:43on the city. So
1:38:45ultimately they would make the decision
1:38:47if it's outside of what currently is
1:38:50within the code. Okay. Cuz I just keep
1:38:52thinking of not in my backyard
1:38:55scenarios.
1:38:55>> Well, you know, that's That's probably
1:38:57going to come up. That's why you have
1:38:59codes
1:39:00uh so that you don't put semis next to
1:39:02residences, you know, you have a you
1:39:04have a a gap and so
1:39:06um and that's what a hearing examiner
1:39:09will do is they'll look you over and and
1:39:11make a legal decision that they either
1:39:12have to
1:39:14they they you're allowed that variance
1:39:17or no, it's denied.
1:39:18There's there's one more
1:39:20similar but different and that's one of
1:39:22the hotels out in the near where the
1:39:25burger is that the Burger King? Yeah,
1:39:28the Burger King is turning its
1:39:31instead of being a motel there. They're
1:39:33turning their housing into for H2A
1:39:36housing for workers for farm workers and
1:39:40I'm just wondering if any variances
1:39:42have been made because I believe that's
1:39:44light light commercial some sort of
1:39:46commercial in there. There's no industry
1:39:47in there but there's a lot of
1:39:49commercial. Is that is that a proper
1:39:51place for that kind of housing? Do they
1:39:54need a variance and some different
1:39:56permit Well, if if
1:39:58I don't know if that's happened. I'm
1:40:00Planning Department should evaluate the
1:40:02code compliance and if they're outside
1:40:04of that I'd like to call for a point of
1:40:06order. Is this on the agenda? No, it's
1:40:08No, I just I asked if I could It's a
1:40:10workshop so I can I asked if I could
1:40:12bring up those two topics but
1:40:14yeah, if that that's just something I've
1:40:16been kind of concerned about but
1:40:18And I may be able to help you answer
1:40:20answer that one when it
1:40:23there's a state statute that allows each
1:40:26hotel to be used or converted for H2A
1:40:28housing as long as hotel motel was
1:40:31previously permitted there. We're
1:40:32struggling with it in some other cities
1:40:34that aren't quite
1:40:36as amenable to to doing that. They want
1:40:38to try and treat H2A housing more like
1:40:40group homes but there's a specific
1:40:42statute that allows you to
1:40:45to do that. So even outside your own
1:40:47planning process but I think going back
1:40:50to your your first question, part of the
1:40:53idea is is to update your codes with
1:40:56respect to the essential facilities in
1:40:58the sex offender housing. Part of the
1:41:00issue is your codes right now are fairly
1:41:03silent on where they can go. So the
1:41:05exercise needs to be
1:41:07it probably does need to go to your
1:41:08planning commission to work on language
1:41:11that will help appropriately site them
1:41:14in the future so that when you do they
1:41:16likely will need some type of
1:41:17conditional use permit depending on what
1:41:19zone they're in and then you will get in
1:41:20front of the hearing examiner with all
1:41:22the conditions that say
1:41:24is this going to be an approved use
1:41:25here? But right now for the moratorium
1:41:27just freezes it all but in the
1:41:29background and you'll adopt an ordinance
1:41:32next week
1:41:33that formalizes the 6 month. But in the
1:41:36background the planning commission
1:41:37should be working on on drafting and
1:41:41I've I've seen I think some proposed
1:41:42amendments. They were part of your whole
1:41:44package even though they're not really
1:41:45part of the moratorium but some some
1:41:48proposed language that one of the
1:41:49counselors had drafted
1:41:51to suggest changes. So
1:41:54that should be going on in the process
1:41:55as well.
1:41:57Yeah. So so counselor Hart, is this is
1:41:59this something that you're you're asking
1:42:01the city manager to look into? Do you
1:42:03want to Yeah, I think connect with the
1:42:05planning commission? I think ultimately
1:42:07it may will end up with planning
1:42:09commission. I just wanted to to ask the
1:42:12city manager if he would check into that
1:42:15and see if they are working on that yet
1:42:16or not.
1:42:18Thank you.
1:42:19And thank thank you for allowing me to
1:42:21just a couple questions there at the at
1:42:24the end before we go in exact.
1:42:27On you anybody want more help? Chris
1:42:29Easter candy?
1:42:31>> [laughter]
1:42:33>> That was all that noise. You want some
1:42:34more? No? Right on
1:42:36there you go. I'm just writing some some
1:42:38sugar.
1:42:40I know you guys are trying to keep your
1:42:41That's why I'm getting rid of it.
1:42:43>> [laughter]
1:42:44>> I'll send some down to Leo in that way
1:42:45here in a minute. So all right. Well,
1:42:47let's keep moving forward so it's not a
1:42:49longer night. Okay, moving on to
1:42:53um
1:42:54executive session. So now we're going to
1:42:56recess to go into executive session
1:42:58stating RCW 42.30.110
1:43:02subsection 1 I into the record.
1:43:06Um
1:43:08This take about
1:43:1010 10 15 minutes. Julie, do you think
1:43:13you'll need more time? Let's start with
1:43:1510 and see where where you go. Okay. And
1:43:19Mr. Haley could be excused? Yes. Okay.
1:43:23All right. So Mr. Haley Madam Chair, can
1:43:25you read that RCW into the record,
1:43:27please? Yes, it's 42.30.110
1:43:31subsection 1 I.
1:43:34The the And then
1:43:36I don't have the [clears throat]
1:43:37language in this one. I have it right
1:43:39here.
1:43:40Yeah, it says to discuss with legal
1:43:42counsel representing the agency matters
1:43:44relating to agency enforcement actions
1:43:47or to discuss with legal counsel
1:43:48representing the agency litigation or
1:43:50potential litigation to which the
1:43:52agency, the governing body or a member
1:43:54acting in an official capacity is or is
1:43:57likely to become a party when public
1:43:59knowledge regarding the discussion is
1:44:00likely to result in an adverse legal or
1:44:03financial consequence to the agency.
1:44:06Okay, well that's a different
1:44:07>> Okay.
1:44:09Okay. This one's a little different.
1:44:13And I
1:44:14subsections there that I also didn't
1:44:17read but
1:44:18that's the main part.
1:44:20Okay.
1:44:21So we're just
1:44:23for 10 minutes. What was that? That's
1:44:25sneaky. It's Swan Road.
1:44:27>> [laughter]
1:44:31>> Okay. Ready? Okay, we're back in in
1:44:34session.
1:44:35Um
1:44:36>> [clears throat]
1:44:37>> no action will be taken
1:44:40without
1:44:42anything else for the good of the order
1:44:45we will go ahead and adjourn this
1:44:46meeting at 8:03.

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of Meeting Title by City of Sunnyside Washington, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 17,195 words across 2,838 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.