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Meet The Genius Kid Who Solved YouTube (Jake Trinder Interview) — Transcript

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0:00Do you think there's anyone better than
0:01you on the planet for it?
0:02>> No, there's not a chance. We're running
0:05well over a 100 YouTube channels. Some
0:07of those channels are the top in their
0:08space like Gary Vee, Ali Abdal, Jeremy
0:11Haynes. Gary Vee, one of our clients,
0:13like it was getting like 10 to 20,000
0:15views [music] on average when we were
0:16starting with him. The first video that
0:17we made for him got over 300,000 views.
0:19We doubled down and then got [music]
0:21over 700,000 views in counting and it's
0:23on its way to a million long form views,
0:24which has happened within like a month
0:26or two, within a few videos. This is the
0:28video you posted which has got [music]
0:29700,000 views. You said now it's added
0:31up into like what 200k in recurring
0:32revenue.
0:33>> That video is like collecting over a
0:35mill lifetime.
0:36>> Why? How? What? Like
0:38>> the most leading indicator of a
0:41successful video before the video has
0:43been pushed is all this [ __ ] about open
0:47loops and storytelling [music]
0:48structures and all this BS. It doesn't
0:50matter. People over complicate that
0:52[ __ ] YouTube first and foremost [music]
0:53is 100% a quality game, not a quantity
0:55game. It's a winter take all platform.
0:57Your goal should always be to make
0:59because that's how you wipe an entire
1:00market [music] clean and you just take
1:01all the demands.
1:02>> So, I don't know if you can share this,
1:04but like like right now you've done this
1:05for like hundreds of channels [music]
1:07potentially, but like what does your
1:08research database look like?
1:12>> All right, Mr. Jake Trender, uh, we all
1:15know there are like thousands of people
1:16online that teach YouTube, but not many
1:19of them have, if I have the number
1:21right, 150 clients. And your business is
1:24doing like what, 500k a month now? Yeah,
1:27probably about 600 700 now.
1:30>> And you run people like Gary Vee, Ali
1:33Abdal, and you actually have a business
1:35that scaled and that made money off of
1:37it. And then you went ahead and took
1:39everything you did and got 700,000 views
1:42on your own video and added 100K MR
1:45>> from your own skill set 200. Now, the
1:48thing is a lot of people think that
1:49YouTube is like unpredictable, right?
1:51But what you did technically speaking,
1:54you shouldn't be repeatable.
1:56But you made it happen. And typically
1:58the only way that can happen is if you
2:00have like an actual system. And my goal
2:02today is I want to break down that whole
2:05system that you developed from the
2:08in-depth research, how you map out
2:10niches, how you film, how you do the
2:12content, how you script it, and
2:14everything to Z. By the end of the
2:15podcast, the goal is that anyone
2:17watching can start their channel, get
2:19views, get leads, and make as much cash
2:21as possible. So before we get into it
2:24for some social proof, get like let the
2:25people know like what's the scale of the
2:27business? How are you guys doing right
2:29now? Like you know, drop some game for
2:30us.
2:31>> Yeah. So currently at as I say scaled
2:35the business to 670K a month and
2:40growing. I think this month we added
2:42about 250K monthly recurring and we're
2:46expecting to be doing over a million a
2:48month this year. Clearing that no
2:50problem. We're running well over a 100
2:53YouTube channels and growing. I think we
2:55added about 20 channels to our roster.
2:57These are educational brands, experts,
3:00businesses, and some of those channels
3:02at the top in their space like Gary Vee,
3:05Ali Abdal. We're also helping people
3:07like Jeremy Haynes as well, other brands
3:10like Many Chat, Instantly AI, as well as
3:12some other bigger companies as well. So,
3:14>> when it comes to like YouTube business,
3:16do you think there's anyone better than
3:17you on the planet for it? No, there's
3:19not a chance.
3:21>> Okay.
3:21>> The evidence speaks for itself. I think
3:23>> the goal today is to prove that, right?
3:24>> Okay, cool. Sounds good.
3:26>> That's the play.
3:26>> Yes.
3:27>> So, in terms of like all the channels
3:30that you run right now, um you basically
3:32built a formula around it. Like I've
3:34known you since day one and like you
3:35would do something, you did it for
3:37instantly and I was like, "All right,
3:38let's see if he can do it again." Then
3:40you did it again and again and again and
3:43now you're running like people like Gary
3:44Vee, which is like there's no YouTube
3:46guys that can do that. You basically
3:48revived the channel for Gary Vee, which
3:49is pretty crazy.
3:51>> And all of that has to have like a
3:53formula behind it.
3:55>> What's that formula?
3:57>> Yeah, I would say if we're to distill it
4:00down, and I'm sure we'll get into the
4:02details of each part. First, it's
4:05understanding the market and
4:07understanding where demand is
4:10distributed within that market. So
4:11demand being the amount of attention
4:13that is available to capture from a
4:16particular audience from a particular
4:17market. So it's first understanding
4:19where is that demand distributed and how
4:22do you make a video that effectively
4:24communicates that to capture that
4:27demand. So first you have to be able to
4:29understand where the demand's
4:30distributed. You have to be able to
4:33make a video around that demand so you
4:36capture that demand in the first place.
4:39Then it's about okay we've got this
4:41topic we know this topic has demand and
4:43we know that if we make a video around
4:44this topic we will capture that demand.
4:46How do we actually fulfill this
4:48potential to capture that demand? So
4:50first it's validating demand. Second
4:53it's actually packaging a video in a way
4:55which you have the highest confidence in
4:58and has the highest likelihood to be
5:00able to capture that demand standing out
5:02against every other video
5:04>> around that given topic. And then once
5:07you've got the packaging, you've got the
5:09concept you and that's nailed and that's
5:11removed as a point of failure, it's then
5:13about making sure that you make the
5:15correct decisions downstream from how do
5:17you structure the video? How do you
5:19effectively hook the viewer in and
5:20retain them and satisfy the expectation
5:23that they clicked on in order to fulfill
5:25on that demand? So, first of all, making
5:28sure that you're making a video around
5:31something where there is sufficient
5:32demand in the first place and has that
5:35potential. Then fulfilling on its
5:37potential to capture that demand through
5:39the packaging and then actually
5:42fulfilling on the demand that exists in
5:44the content so that it satisfies the
5:46viewer and then the YouTube algorithm
5:47pushes it and it enters this cycle where
5:49it pushes to more people. It stands out
5:52against the other videos that's it's
5:54competing against for those viewers. the
5:56viewers click on your video and it kind
5:58of enters a cycle. So,
5:59>> so you just see YouTube as like there's
6:01already demand existing and you become
6:03the best at like capitalizing off the
6:05demand.
6:06>> Yes. You need to be the best at
6:09capturing the demand and then satisfying
6:11the demand
6:12>> so people can make a [ __ ] ton of money
6:13from it.
6:13>> Yeah.
6:14>> Like you did.
6:14>> Yes.
6:15>> The last two weeks.
6:16>> Yes. I've done it myself.
6:18>> Yeah.
6:19>> So, I mean, we're going to go over this
6:20repeatable formula pretty much a lot.
6:22you've applied for like Gary Vee, Ali,
6:24Jeremy Haynes, a lot of other people.
6:26Uh, but before that, I want to kind of
6:28talk about your vision on where the
6:30space is at right now, which is what we
6:32kind of spoke about the other day,
6:33>> and you were talking about it how like
6:35there's a lot of like shitty agencies,
6:37shitty strategists, and it's like the
6:40whole space is kind of slop. We were on
6:43our meeting.
6:44>> Like, what do you mean by that? Where do
6:45you see like YouTube strategy being at
6:47right now? Like, what do you think is
6:48wrong currently with how people think
6:50and how people process? Yeah. So, I
6:52think the YouTube space is the biggest
6:54opportunity that we've ever seen it to
6:56be because I think
6:59the reason why most people fail at
7:01YouTube is the same reason why it's such
7:03a big opportunity. And to to understand
7:06that, you first have to understand that
7:07YouTube is a winner take all platform
7:08inherently. Like you go to your YouTube
7:10home feed and there are 20 plus other
7:13videos to click on all at the same time.
7:15Whether it be on recommended, search,
7:17suggested videos, only one of those
7:19videos gets clicked on. And so in order
7:22to win in a market, you have to be able
7:25to capture the attention of the target
7:29viewer over all of the other videos at a
7:32higher rate than all of the other videos
7:35>> in order to to to succeed in a market.
7:37And so that's why most of the attention
7:38tends towards the channels that are at
7:40the top of the market. The reason why
7:42I'm saying this is because in most
7:44educational channels, everybody sucks at
7:47YouTube. And the reason why is very
7:50simple because in most educational
7:52niches, the experts themselves are the
7:53experts are what they are at. That's
7:55their given craft. And so they don't
7:57have the experience on YouTube to
7:59understand what does a good video idea
8:01look like? What does good packaging look
8:02like? How do I structure this YouTube
8:04video? They don't understand the
8:05fundamentals of YouTube strategy and
8:07best practices and it means the bar is
8:10very low. And then also the YouTube
8:12agencies that are helping some of these
8:15brands and businesses, typically these
8:18aren't real YouTube experts. They've
8:20built this business. They built this
8:22service that delivers deliverables,
8:24which are videos, thumbnails, titles,
8:26ideas.
8:27>> And so the deliverables are there, but
8:30that's not what drives results. What
8:31drives results is figuring out what are
8:33the best videos to make in the given
8:34market. What are the best topics to
8:36tackle? What's the best way to package
8:37them? It's the strategy piece.
8:39>> So, you heard him. You're probably an
8:40expert at what you do, but you're not an
8:42expert at YouTube. We literally at
8:44Trackio went through 31,512
8:47videos on our platform and we created a
8:49doc with a 10 video ideas that generated
8:52the most amount of revenue. I left the
8:54link in the description. Check it out.
8:55And now back to the pod.
8:57>> And so either the experts themselves
9:00don't know how to do YouTube correctly
9:02or the agencies aren't actually that
9:04high level themselves. And even if it's
9:06a YouTube expert, they are operating
9:10solo. So they don't have enough
9:11awareness of what's working across
9:13YouTube. All this to say, most people in
9:17a given niche or like most creators in
9:20their niche are not making the correct
9:22decisions. And the reason why they're
9:24not making those correct decisions is
9:26because they don't have the information.
9:28They don't have the information on what
9:29works across the platform. They don't
9:30have the information on what are the
9:32right titles to use or what's the best
9:34thumbnail concepts that we can use right
9:36now. And so the bar is very low in most
9:38markets, especially B2B, but also just
9:42info in general. And that is why most
9:45people fail because they're not making
9:47the correct decisions. But it's also why
9:49if you can learn how to do YouTube
9:52correctly and you can understand the
9:54fundamentals and then how to apply those
9:56fundamentals through a correct YouTube
9:58system, then all of a sudden you flip it
10:01and you become one of the only people in
10:03your market to where you're doing
10:04YouTube right and that you've just
10:08created this gap. Now you were lumped
10:10with these people, the other competitors
10:12in your niche where they weren't doing
10:13YouTube to the highest level. And now
10:15you just created the separation. And
10:17that separation isn't a 5x multiple on
10:20>> your views. It is a fundamental
10:23difference in how the algorithm chooses
10:26to distribute attention from the market
10:29to videos. All the demand all of a
10:30sudden goes towards you because YouTube
10:32wants to keep people on the platform
10:34>> and it makes sense for them to push them
10:36to that video instead. So this is the
10:37reason why at the scale of which I'm at
10:40now if I step in with a channel it's
10:43night and day sometimes within less than
10:46a month where they were literally
10:47failing and all of a sudden now they're
10:49the top channel in the niche.
10:51>> Yeah.
10:51>> Because it's applying that system and
10:53their effects are immediate.
10:56>> And so what if like some of these guys
10:58like use outli what do you think about
11:00outliers and like crossniche ideation? I
11:03think it's super powerful, but only if
11:05done correctly. And I think 99% of
11:09creators, brands, experts, businesses
11:11that do YouTube, they don't actually
11:13understand the reasoning and the first
11:16principles as to why that sometimes and
11:19often times works, which means that they
11:22misapply it or they don't get the most
11:23out of it or sometimes they completely
11:25misapply it. And so what I mean there is
11:27is like why does adjacent niche ideation
11:31work? Most people don't actually
11:33question this and they just hear the
11:34tactic from a YouTube growth guru and
11:36they take and apply it. Sometimes see
11:37success but then sometimes don't and
11:38they wonder why it hasn't worked. The
11:40reason why it works is because you are
11:43taking something that has worked in
11:46multiple different instances where there
11:48is an underlying pattern between it and
11:50across all of these instances it has
11:52drove a statistically significant result
11:55to where it has produced a five times 10
11:57times or higher better video in terms of
12:00performance than the average video on
12:02that channel in multiple instances. that
12:05doesn't happen through magic. Like it's
12:06not just some woow instance of it. Like
12:09it happened because of an actual reason.
12:11And that reason is that packaging.
12:14Whatever it was, whatever the reason was
12:15why those videos succeeded, which you
12:17have to get to the bottom of, it struck
12:19a nerve with the market that it was in
12:23in such a way which the other videos
12:25didn't. So when it landed on that home
12:26feed, it won that battle of getting the
12:29click. If it was the packaging that
12:31drove that reason,
12:32>> yeah,
12:32>> if it was the video itself that drove
12:34the reason, it struck a nerve in a
12:36certain way to where it drove higher
12:38viewer satisfaction to such a
12:40significant degree to where YouTube was
12:41like, "Okay, this is the video that
12:43we're going to push to more of that
12:44audience." And so people don't
12:47understand that it's like the psychology
12:50or it's the actual deeprooted psychology
12:52for those particular viewers why that
12:55thing worked. And so the reason adjacent
12:57niche ideation works is when you are
13:00taking something that has struck a nerve
13:02with the psychology and the mind of the
13:05viewers in those niches and you're
13:07taking it to your niche and if applied
13:09correctly you're taking it to your niche
13:11where the viewer has similar psychology
13:14to the viewers in those niches. They
13:16have they think similarly. They have a
13:19similar intent behind the view. And so
13:22like the same reason as to why it struck
13:24a nerve with them, you could assume
13:26quite confidently that it would also
13:28strike that nerve with your audience.
13:30But some people will take something that
13:32has worked in one niche with a certain
13:34type of audience who is minded a certain
13:36way with a certain psychology and
13:39>> they will bring it to their niche where
13:41the audience has a different psychology
13:43and therefore the reason doesn't
13:45transfer over. It's like where people
13:46take the $1 versus $10,000
13:50format, which Mr. Beast does in the
13:51entertainment niche, and they take it to
13:53the niche that they're in with a highly
13:55sophisticated audience
13:57>> where they don't care about that, right?
13:59>> And so, you have to understand the
14:01reasons as to why certain things have
14:03worked in adjacent niches or other
14:05niches. Understand the why behind it to
14:07such a deep level to where you can like
14:09really understand that viewer and why it
14:11actually struck a nerve so much. Do you
14:13have an example of like a video that you
14:15saw in an adjacent niche, but then you
14:16slightly transformed it? Cuz people do
14:19do that a lot. They just copy the exact
14:20thing and it's like Yeah, I think
14:23there's lots. So like for example,
14:26where it's, as I say, the $1 versus
14:29$10,000 is an example where it hasn't
14:31been done right. An example where it has
14:33been done right, I could take one of our
14:34own. So Gary Vee, one of our clients,
14:36like he was getting like 10 to 20,000
14:39views on average when we were starting
14:40with him, which for Gary is like just
14:42not where it should have been at. And he
14:44was just not doing best YouTube
14:45practices. He was doing AI generated
14:48titles or just very basic YouTube
14:50titles. Thumbnails were also probably AI
14:52generated and just didn't look great.
14:54But there was no intent behind the
14:55decisions that were being made. The
14:57first video that we made for him got
14:58over 300,000 views from the very start,
15:00going from 10 to 20K to over 300K. And
15:03then we doubled down and then the double
15:05down got over 700,000 views in counting
15:08and it's on a on its way to a million
15:09long form views which is happened within
15:12like a month or two within a few videos.
15:14So it's
15:15>> a difference right it's not luck
15:18>> and the first video was the new rules of
15:21social media brackets 2026
15:24and the reason why we did that was one
15:27we chose the topic which we knew had
15:29demand around it. Social media obviously
15:31has a lot of demand around it. lots of
15:33proven videos that have got hundreds of
15:34thousands of views in that niche. And
15:35then we had to figure out how do we
15:36package it, right? And so through
15:38understanding Gary, we knew that he
15:40often talks about the shifts that are
15:42happening in a market. Like he predicted
15:44social media back in the newspaper days,
15:45predicted live streaming. So that was
15:48ticked off. That was a fit for him. We
15:49knew we could do a video where it was
15:50discussing the shifts of social media.
15:52Now, because we have the visibility over
15:54what's working across YouTube, we saw a
15:57format that was working, which was the
15:59new rules of this thing. And that was
16:02working for SEO, it was working for
16:06YouTube, it was working for LinkedIn. We
16:08did it for our client in the LinkedIn
16:10niche and worked very well for him. And
16:12the reason why we knew we could take
16:14that and apply it to social media is
16:17because if it worked in these niches
16:19like SEO where the people who are
16:21consuming content in the SEO niche, it's
16:24marketing like they are looking to know
16:26the they want to know the new rules of
16:28SEO because it implies that if they do
16:30not know the new rules, rules being
16:32defined as if you do not follow these
16:34things, you will not succeed. You will
16:36not be doing it correctly. If they do
16:37not follow whatever these new rules are,
16:39they will fail at SEO. But if they know
16:41what the new rules are, they'll be ahead
16:42of the game and they can probably imply
16:45through the packaging like, "Oh, if I
16:47know the new rules, I'm going to very
16:48easily be able to get results." Right?
16:50So, it's like it creates both fear and
16:52desire because it's fear. If they don't
16:54know the new rules, they'll fail at this
16:56thing that they literally care so much
16:57about cuz they're consuming content
16:58around SEO. So, of course, they're going
17:00to be designing that. Of course, they're
17:01going to want to watch that video. But
17:03then also, it implies that it's going to
17:04get them the result that they want
17:05because they're going to be ahead of the
17:06curve beyond anybody else, right? And so
17:08that's the reason why it works with that
17:10audience is because there's implied
17:12value of if you know the new rules,
17:14you'll get the result you want. SEO,
17:15which is money growing your business.
17:16But then also LinkedIn, YouTube, those
17:18are social media niches. If you know the
17:20new rules to the game of social media,
17:22these specific social media niches like
17:24YouTube and LinkedIn, again, it's that
17:27underlying psychology of if you don't,
17:29you will fail because there are new
17:30rules and if you do not follow rules,
17:32you will fail. That's the definition of
17:34rules. But if you do, you'll be ahead of
17:36the game. So like that's the underlying
17:38reason as to why people want to watch
17:41that type of format. And so I could
17:43assume that that would also transfer to
17:46social media which is one a form of
17:47marketing like SEO is and two it's the
17:49all-encompassing
17:51topic of LinkedIn and YouTube. So it
17:54would it would naturally transfer and so
17:55that's why it works. What would be like
17:57a wrong way of using that? The new rules
17:59of
18:00>> where something doesn't have rules to
18:01the game like and and the viewer
18:04logically knows before even clicking on
18:06the video that there isn't going to be a
18:10change in the rules to something. So
18:12like the new rules of baking.
18:14>> Yeah. Right. Like what changes to
18:17baking? You just bake. Unless there's a
18:19time where AI is just evidently taking
18:22over baking and it's very present in
18:24people's minds. So it only applies to
18:28niches where there's rules to the game
18:30and the viewer
18:32wouldn't call [ __ ] basically on
18:34there being new rules to the game.
18:36>> Mhm. So that that's like that's one of
18:38the situations where it's only going to
18:40apply to that. Or there's another format
18:41as well which is like if you don't
18:43understand this thing, you don't
18:44understand that thing. There's other
18:45formats like if you don't understand
18:46this thing, you don't understand that
18:48thing. And examples include if you don't
18:51understand funding, you don't understand
18:53startups. Or if you don't understand
18:54bonds, you don't understand money. And
18:57so for our client, the way we applied
18:59this was if you don't understand
19:01insulin, you don't understand fat loss.
19:03But the reason you have, but somebody
19:06could easily do if you don't understand
19:09candlesticks, you don't understand
19:10trading. Now, it's not that that video
19:12couldn't work, but it would be less
19:14likely to work because the way that
19:16format works is if you don't understand
19:18this thing that you might be aware of at
19:21max, but you definitely don't understand
19:24it, you don't understand the outcome
19:26that you want. So, either that that if
19:28you don't understand X, you don't
19:30understand Y. Y is like the desired
19:32outcome that they care so much about and
19:34X is like the unlock that they
19:37definitely don't understand because it's
19:39something really specific that's might
19:41be seen as boring or might be seen as
19:44undervalued and so it sparks the
19:46curiosity of like well I definitely
19:47don't understand this thing and I didn't
19:48think that this thing was the reason as
19:50to why candlesticks is like obvious like
19:54>> yeah exactly and they can't see like
19:56it's and also most of the viewers in
19:58that niche understand candle sticks to
20:01such a level where like they don't feel
20:03like there's enough of a gap there.
20:04Whereas if it's like insulin, nobody
20:06[ __ ] understands insulin. Bonds some
20:08B like Yeah. So you get the point,
20:11right? And
20:12>> oh, was it Keith Keith Lee?
20:15>> Wait, for what?
20:16>> The guy who did the Bonds video.
20:17>> I'm not sure to be honest.
20:18>> Like it Yeah, it was cuz bro, um I think
20:22it was Keith Lee. He's He would just sit
20:23down and talk finance.
20:24>> I think it might have been.
20:26>> Yeah. Um but he did like Bitcoin video
20:28about Bitcoin too and he would use that
20:30a lot like oh if you don't understand
20:31this
20:31>> and then his bonds video just blew the
20:33[ __ ] up.
20:34>> Yeah.
20:34>> Like it went crazy. So okay let's say
20:36someone's watching right now. They have
20:37an offer. They have a business and
20:38everything. Um and they either starting
20:40or they already have a channel but
20:43>> basically after watching this they're
20:44going to kind of have to restart, right?
20:45Which is how you do with all your
20:46clients. Um and we kind of spoke about
20:49okay where does someone actually start?
20:50Everyone thinks about like all ideas,
20:52whatever and everything, but you just
20:53put it down to like research. Number
20:56one, why research?
20:58>> And then how do you do research on
21:01YouTube? Cuz like people like when you
21:05tell someone, I'll go do they'll just go
21:06look at they'll just type, okay, if
21:08they're in ecom, they'll just type ecom,
21:10whatever, and just randomly look at a
21:11bunch of videos.
21:12>> How is it you attack research?
21:14>> Yeah. So the way I see YouTube is
21:19your ability to make good decisions is
21:22highly dependent on the information that
21:25you have. Most people make videos
21:28completely flying blind where they'll
21:30base their title or they'll base their
21:32topic. Yeah, most people are completely
21:34flying blind where they'll base their
21:35topic over what they logically think
21:38their target market wants and then
21:40they'll package that title either based
21:43on intuition AI or maybe a title that
21:47they happen to see work on their YouTube
21:48feed when they were consuming YouTube
21:50and they thought, "Oh, that's a nice
21:51title. Let me take that. That video
21:52worked well."
21:54>> And that's as far as their visibility
21:56goes. That's very very nar but that's
21:58very narrowsighted where if you're able
22:01to see like if we contrast that with
22:04being able to see over the entirety of
22:06YouTube from a bird's eye view you're
22:08YouTube omniscient you literally see
22:10everything all the titles that are
22:12working all the thumbnail styles all the
22:14trending topics in the AI niche trending
22:16figures so on and so forth if you see
22:18everything and you walk into your niche
22:22and see which topics have demand but
22:25also you'll be able to see the gaps in
22:27the market way easier because you're
22:29seeing what's working everywhere else.
22:30And by comparison, you'll be like, well,
22:33what what the [ __ ] happening in this
22:34niche? Like, why is nothing going on in
22:36this niche, right? Why in my niche is
22:38everybody using these basic boring
22:39titles or using the same formats that
22:41everybody else has done, but they're not
22:42seeing all these formats and all these
22:44different ways of packaging things
22:45that's working right now
22:47>> that I can apply. And that's how you
22:48find the gaps in the market. So the way
22:51the reason why I place so much emphasis
22:53on research is because that is what
22:56gives you the understanding over what
22:58are the right moves to make and the best
23:01decisions to make in every single stage
23:03of the process, right? What are the what
23:06are the best topics to make videos
23:08around? What are the most in demand
23:09topics in your niche that you can make
23:10videos around? What are the best ways to
23:11package it? What's the right way to
23:13structure the video in order to get
23:14highest viewer satisfaction? What are
23:16the different execution formats that are
23:18working really well right now that I can
23:20take and use?
23:22>> Let's do like something. All right, say
23:24I have like an info offer now and it's
23:26about like maybe an AI agency offer. I'm
23:29going to take like three different
23:30offers, but we'll go like one by one.
23:32Say I have an AI agency offer and it my
23:34videos are stuck at like a couple
23:35hundred views, maybe sometimes 1k views.
23:38You tell me, "Okay, Jay, go research."
23:40And I'm sitting here and you're next to
23:41me and you tell me exactly what to do.
23:43What am I doing on my computer?
23:45>> Yeah. So first you need to research your
23:49market to understand where demand is. So
23:52that's the first step.
23:53>> Okay.
23:53>> And this and then the second thing you
23:55will need to do after that is research
23:57other market to do YouTube research
23:59effectively. There's a step-by-step
24:01algorithm you can follow to be able to
24:03explore the entirety of a niche. And you
24:05do this whether it's in your niche to
24:07find where demand is distributed in
24:09terms of which topics are worth making
24:11videos around that can see success in
24:13the first place and then in other niches
24:14to understand what's working across
24:16YouTube. So you might know how to
24:18package videos in your niche and stand
24:19out. And I use an algorithm which I
24:23actually learned in school funny enough
24:25because I'm from a computer science
24:27background and that's where my education
24:29stems from which is called a depth first
24:32search algorithm which is an actual
24:35algorithm that's used in applications
24:38such as web crawlers for example to
24:40explore the entirety of a data set. So
24:44like scraping the web and finding all
24:45the information and not missing
24:47anything. It's an algorithm that's used
24:49to explore the entirety of a data set
24:50and not miss a single thing. And so the
24:53way this algorithm works is you have
24:55your root node which is the starting
24:58point and then you have pathways of
25:01other nodes. So it basically branches
25:04out where you've got the root node and
25:06then you've got a node here and a node
25:07here and then you've got like all these
25:09different nodes. It's a tree. It's
25:10called a binary tree and it's like a
25:12basically a tree of different data
25:14points applied to YouTube. What this
25:16allows you to do is if you follow the
25:18depth first search algorithm correctly,
25:20you're able to effectively explore the
25:23entirety of a niche and not miss
25:24anything. So if you went through this
25:26entire process, then you would know
25:29where all the demand is and you would
25:30know everything that's working in a
25:32given niche. And then if you multiply
25:34that across multiple niches, you see
25:36everything, right? And this is in
25:38theory. The way that works applied to
25:40YouTube is the root node that you are
25:43starting with is the niche that you're
25:46exploring. So you pick a niche and this
25:48would either be your niche if it's your
25:49own niche research or adjacent niche if
25:51you're trying to find formats that are
25:53working.
25:54The first layer of nodes are the core
25:58seed search terms for that niche that
26:02would allow you to get search results of
26:05all the different types of videos that
26:07are being made in your niche. You can
26:08very easily generate this with AI. You
26:10just have to say to AI, this is my
26:13niche. Generate a core seed list of
26:15keywords that would allow me to explore
26:17the entirety of the niche. So for
26:18example, if your niche was YouTube
26:20growth, it would give you terms like how
26:23to grow your YouTube channel, how to
26:24make good YouTube thumbnails, YouTube
26:26growth, growing on YouTube, all the
26:29different variations. So you get this
26:30exhaustive list.
26:32Now once you have that list, this is
26:35where we start to get into the depth
26:36first search approach because you
26:39basically go through every single search
26:42term. You basically explore the entirety
26:44of one search term first and you go as
26:46deep as possible until there is nothing
26:49left to find where you retrace back one
26:52step and then you repeat the process and
26:54you keep going through that process of
26:57researching as far as you can go until
26:59there's nothing left to find and then
27:00retracing back one step. So what this
27:02looks like in practice is once you have
27:04your search terms, you go to that first
27:06search term and you search the search
27:07term on YouTube. Then you're returned
27:09with a list of videos that if they're
27:10ranking highly in YouTube search, a lot
27:12of them are going to be high performing
27:13videos. You see which videos are
27:16performing outstandingly well. And you
27:18can see that by seeing the view count
27:20relative to the subscriber count at
27:22first glance on the YouTube search. But
27:24if you go to the channel, you can also
27:25see is this video performing better than
27:28the average videos on this channel. Now
27:30the sweet thing here is if somebody is
27:32getting an outlier that's really good
27:34and you would define it as a successful
27:36video, chances are they probably have
27:37other successful videos. So this is
27:39where we get into the next layer of the
27:41depth first search and that extra layer
27:43of nodes where we go to the channel. So
27:45we open up in a new tab the channel of
27:48the video that we, you know, the channel
27:50of the owner of the video that we want
27:52to explore. And now we're hosted. Now we
27:55see a bunch of other videos that have
27:56also performed outstandingly well. And
27:58so we start collecting all this
28:00information on what videos have
28:02performed well, how were they packaged,
28:04what was the topic of those videos, did
28:05they do anything interesting in the
28:06thumbnail, and if we study further as
28:08well, did they do anything interesting
28:10in the execution of the video that might
28:12have drove it to that result. So we're
28:13pulling the data and we're also
28:15interpreting the data as to why do we
28:17think this video succeeded? And you can
28:19log all of this in a simple database
28:21like Google Sheet visibly. I use SQL
28:24light because that's like an actual
28:25database programming. So you can query
28:27it quick, but you you collect all this
28:30data on the channel. Now you're left
28:32with a ton of interesting outliers of
28:34videos that have performed well. And the
28:36key thing is the interpretation. You
28:38understand why those videos have
28:39actually done well or at least you're
28:41making a hypothesis so that you know
28:43you're you're studying the game. Once
28:45the channel is done with and there's
28:47nothing left to explore on the channel,
28:49close the tab of the channel and now
28:51you're left back at the search term
28:53where you left off at and you go to the
28:54next video. Is that something that's
28:56worth considering? Was this a successful
28:57video? If it wasn't, skip past it. Go to
28:59the next video. We don't want to
29:00consider any videos that haven't
29:02performed well and it looks like it's
29:03done bad. Otherwise, the channel's not
29:05going to be worth exploring.
29:07>> And you just continue through this
29:08process of going to the next channel,
29:10exploring everything in there.
29:12>> And you just keep going down the search
29:14term until there's nothing interesting
29:16left to look at on that search term.
29:18Because if you scroll down far enough,
29:20there's you start to get less relevant
29:22videos. And then you retrace back one
29:25step. You go to the next search term and
29:27you repeat the entire process for that
29:28search term that I described. You go to
29:30the next one and you basically explore
29:32the entirety of the data set one pathway
29:36at a time until everything's been
29:38explored.
29:38>> And so you only like what time stamp do
29:41you look at in terms of like is it like
29:42the past 3 months of videos, 6 months?
29:44Like
29:45>> what's the timeline you look at? It
29:47depends on the circumstances because if
29:51videos have performed really well
29:54and there's a clear reason as to why
29:56they performed well such as the title
29:58but they were done two years ago. If
30:00there's no reason again when you study
30:02the why first principles like if there's
30:04no reason as to why that reason why that
30:07video succeeded wouldn't work now then
30:09it's still good information. Obviously
30:11you take it as signal but you don't
30:13discard it just because it was older. if
30:16there's no reason why it wouldn't work
30:18now. In fact, sometimes it can be an
30:19opportunity because you could have
30:20formats that worked ages ago that kind
30:21of got left in the dust. In fact, that's
30:23this has happened with there was a
30:25format that was working really well,
30:26which was brutally honest advice. Alexi
30:29cultivated with like XA of brutally
30:30honest advice. Everybody abused it at
30:32the time and got super saturated cuz
30:34everybody had seen it. So that it no
30:35longer had novelty. So then it kind of
30:37disappeared for a while, but now it's
30:39came back up and we used it for Gary
30:41Vee. We used it for another client with
30:42brutally honest web design which and
30:44these videos have getting hundreds of
30:45thousands of views. So that's kind of
30:47cropped back up because the underlying
30:48psychology didn't change. It just got
30:50burnt and lost its novelty. So but then
30:52in something like the AI niche, if
30:54there's a format that's working in the
30:55AI niche or if it's a trending topic in
30:57the AI niche like an AI model,
30:59>> then you have to take that. So you have
31:01to understand hm [clears throat] was
31:03part of the reason why this video
31:04succeeded down to its relevancy in that
31:07fact because if it was you have to take
31:10that for what it is as signal and that
31:12does potentially weaken the idea.
31:14>> So how long how long does it actually
31:16take like say for example right now I'm
31:19going to go do research to do really
31:22good your research on YouTube for like
31:24your niche. How long would it take you?
31:252 hours 3 hours 4 hours? It's a long
31:28upfront investment. I would say if you
31:30It depends on the niche as well. If
31:31you're in a small niche, sometimes it
31:32can be quick. But if you're in a niche
31:34like business definitely takes a lot
31:36longer. So it depends on the size of the
31:39niche. And so it can take many many
31:41hours. It might require a lot of your
31:43focus for one week. But oh wait, wait, a
31:46week?
31:46>> Well, yeah, because think about how deep
31:48the root in the data set goes. There's
31:50so many flying off pathways in the
31:52business niche, for example, and so many
31:54channels to explore. But once you have
31:57the visibility, it's easy to maintain it
31:59and upkeep at it. Because once you've
32:01gone through that process, that
32:02intensive process initially, like think
32:04about how much visibility you have over
32:06the niche of what's everybody doing and
32:08copying from each other, but also where
32:09the gaps are. The other thing that you
32:11can do though is you can delegate
32:12pathways. So you can just basically map
32:16out the entire plan of how you're going
32:18to research the niche with all the
32:19different search terms and all the
32:20different things and then just chunk it
32:21down.
32:22>> Transcribing what you just said earlier
32:23into AI, right? [laughter]
32:25Well, you can you can leverage AI. We
32:27leverage AI at like a super high level.
32:28But
32:29>> I was saying they could just transcribe
32:30everything you said. AI will make a plan
32:32for it and that's it.
32:33>> Yes. But you do need to understand the
32:36process to be able to manage it. The
32:37same way like if you were to train VAS
32:39cuz that's also what we do as well, not
32:41just AI. If you're to train VAS on it,
32:43you have to be able to manage the
32:44success of the outcome. Cuz if they
32:46start delivering you just a bunch of
32:47random outliers, but they have, you
32:49know, there's nuance to it. So you you'd
32:51have to understand it. But once you do,
32:52you can delegate that process. That's
32:54how we've done it. Like we've got
32:55in-house researchers. We built our own
32:58internal AI tool because the public
33:00tools weren't offering what we needed
33:02and all that stuff. So,
33:03>> so I don't know if you can share this,
33:04but like like right now you've done this
33:06for like hundreds of channels
33:07potentially. Well, like what does your
33:09research database look like? [laughter]
33:11>> In what way? Like what do you mean?
33:13>> I don't know. What is it? Like what's in
33:14it?
33:15>> Like is it like just hundreds of
33:17thumbnail screenshots? Is it titles? Is
33:18it structure? Is it like hooks? Is it
33:21like I don't like what does it look
33:23like?
33:23>> Yeah. So the there's different I mean
33:25it's a relational database. So there's
33:27different like there's different
33:30databases that are related to each other
33:31for different purposes. So one of the
33:34databases is all the outliers that we
33:36find but these outliers have fields
33:41which like you know each outlier is a
33:43record and they have multiple fields
33:45that we're able to to link them and you
33:47know be able to query properly. So
33:49>> we want to know what the outlier is. is
33:51we want to know when it was posted in
33:53case we do want to factor in relevancy.
33:55We want to know the multiplier of how
33:58much of an outlier was it to relative to
34:01the channel. We also want to know if
34:04there's any like statistical
34:05significance with the outlier. So what I
34:08mean by that is in terms of statistical
34:10significance is this is actually an
34:12important piece with outliers is you can
34:14have a 5x outlier but it's not something
34:16to take as signal. And the reason why is
34:19certain channels have a really volatile
34:21view flow. So like some video they'll
34:24get some videos with 6K views and then
34:25100K views and it's like oscillates
34:26between this. So if you have a 5x
34:29outlier doesn't necessarily mean oh like
34:30something must have worked here. It
34:32might just mean all the videos that have
34:33performed worse obviously they wouldn't
34:35have worked and then whenever they did
34:36anything right they saw a massive high
34:38view. So statistical significance is
34:40also looking at the frequency of which
34:42they get outliers to that degree and is
34:44it therefore anything impressive?
34:46because we're the reason why is because
34:47we're looking to see if they did
34:49something special with that video that
34:50drove an outstanding result. Anyways, so
34:52statistical significance also like we
34:54want to be able to try and make a
34:55prediction if there is statistical
34:57significance there. We want to know the
34:58niche that we found it in of course and
35:00the topic. Um and then we want to know
35:03if there's like when we find outliers,
35:05we make a hypothesis of okay, these are
35:07the reasons why we thought it might have
35:09worked. So whether that be a proposed
35:11pattern in the title, like do we think
35:13there was anything distinct
35:15about this title that fits into a format
35:17or a pattern? We don't know if it is one
35:19yet that's proven across other niches,
35:20but we're making a hypothesis. Or was it
35:22the thumbnail style? Or was it a
35:25particular execution format? For
35:26example, instead of a 5 to eight point
35:28list, was it 20 to 40 points? And
35:30sometimes there's multiple of these.
35:32Oftent times there's multiple of these.
35:33>> A 5 to 8 20 point listicle. So like a
35:36listical being a type of structure video
35:38where it's like okay in this video I'm
35:40going to give you the five things that
35:42helped me become a millionaire right but
35:44some but like the you know Dan Martell
35:46does 40 brutal truths which is like whoa
35:49usually it's 5 to eight. So that's one
35:51of those things where that
35:52>> drives the success of a video because
35:54it's a unique format.
35:55>> So we want to be aware of the the
35:58reasons as to why something has
35:59succeeded and note that down in the
36:01database. We're basically just building
36:03that data set up and [snorts] also
36:06obviously we want to know the time that
36:07we found it just for querying purposes.
36:09But we build that outlier database up
36:10and then we're able to have relational
36:12databases of the niches. So we're able
36:14to have a niche database where the
36:17database is basically everything that
36:19within that niche, all the outliers
36:20within that niche, all the formats that
36:22we found within that niche, so on and so
36:24forth. And then we're able to have a
36:25formats database because as we're
36:28collecting all this data, proposing all
36:30these potential formats, we're making a
36:33hypothesis when we're collecting the
36:34outliers and we're saying this might
36:36have a potential title structure. We're
36:38able to use AI at scale to match the
36:42proposed formats and see if there's a
36:46like an actual match there, an
36:47underlying pattern. So like we made okay
36:49this might this video might have this as
36:52a title pattern and that might be the
36:53reason why it's succeeding. Oh this
36:55video over here in this niche that we
36:57did 2 months later this video is also
36:59succeeding and the AI basically is able
37:01to match those with a human quality
37:03assurance layer and be like okay that's
37:05a format because we're seeing this
37:07happen across multiple niches. we've
37:08just discovered a title format, right?
37:10So then we're able to build up a
37:12database of formats. When was and for
37:14the formats database, we're seeing
37:15what's the average median number of
37:18views that that format gets and what is
37:21the average median multiplier score
37:23outlier multiplier score of that format?
37:26What when was it last when was the last
37:28successful video using that video posted
37:31from what we could scrape? What was the
37:34ratio of the number of times that video
37:36was done and it succeeded versus the
37:38number of times that video was done and
37:39it didn't succeed? That's going to be a
37:41bit of a rougher estimate. So you can't
37:43because it depends on how well it's able
37:44to find the negative examples which is
37:46harder because YouTube's algorithm is
37:48positive biased because it's promoting
37:50the good videos. But anyways, we're able
37:52to basically assess the strength of a
37:54format and also we use AI and human
37:58judgment to data aside how outstanding
38:02is the format? How unique is the format
38:04by first principles? Like when we look
38:05at this by first principles and human
38:07psychology, does it like make a hell of
38:09a lot of sense why all these videos are
38:12succeeding using that format or is it
38:14kind of like a it's just kind of like a
38:15normal title, but for some reason all
38:17these videos are succeeding cuz that
38:18matters too.
38:19>> All right, guys. Quick second. The
38:20reason we're able to bring you guests
38:22like these ones that you see every
38:23single time is because of something that
38:26I have called Tracko. Now, Tracko is a
38:28platform that I built with my team that
38:31has tracked over $56 million in revenue
38:33for info products, creators, coaches,
38:36whatever you want to call it. And
38:37[music] it's also the first and the only
38:39software ever that can accurately track
38:42your endto-end conversions, combining
38:44organic [music] and ads all in one
38:47place. And we actually just launched our
38:49MCP, which means you can use AI, speak
38:51to Trackio 247 as if you were speaking
38:54to your basically AI analyst whenever
38:56you want. Now look, if you're building
38:58anything online and you don't know
39:01what's actually driving your revenue,
39:03that is exactly what Tracko solves. The
39:05link is below. Now, let's get back to
39:07the podcast. And so, what do you do? Um,
39:10like, okay, say someone right now,
39:13they don't give a [ __ ] about your like
39:15mechanism. All they care about is like
39:17the result.
39:18>> And I think you brought up earlier the
39:20example of like insulin and fat loss.
39:21It's like they don't care about like how
39:24they're going to get there. Or say
39:25because I say I have a new business
39:26model and I'm like I don't know selling
39:29like mic pieces because content is
39:32blowing up. Whatever the the point is,
39:33right? But no one gives a [ __ ] about my
39:36mechanism. There's no nothing about the
39:38mechanism that even exists. But they
39:40care about making money the result or
39:41they care about fat loss or insulin
39:43comes in. Right? I had it as a note but
39:44you already said it so we can find
39:45something new. How do you bring
39:48something new to the market? Like that's
39:51that's the question. I think a lot of
39:53people are doing something new.
39:55>> How do you bring that to the market if
39:57there's like less demand for it? Yeah.
39:58>> Which in that case use insulin to do
40:00that but like what's your thinking
40:01process behind it?
40:02>> Yeah. So I mean first you obviously have
40:04to identify that that's the case and
40:06like great book on this breakthrough
40:09advertising Eugene Schwarz you know
40:11talking about um like awareness levels
40:14so like awareness levels is basically
40:17you know are they problem aware or
40:19solution aware and
40:22sometimes in your market people aren't
40:24problem aware right they're just aware
40:27of the solution the outcome that they
40:28want and so often times like you're
40:32going to have to make videos where
40:33nobody gives a [ __ ] about your like the
40:36problem. They just like they just care
40:38about the sorry, nobody gives a [ __ ]
40:40about the solution. They just care about
40:41the problem. Like they don't know what
40:42the solution is. They just know what the
40:44problem is, right? Which is that
40:45achieving the outcome or solving this
40:47pain point. And
40:51what you have to do is first you have to
40:53identify that that's the case and
40:54secondly you have to find scenarios on
40:58YouTube that exist that also
41:02fit under that same scenario. So, for
41:04example, we identified with Tessa, the
41:07client, the insulin doctor. We
41:09identified that nobody gives a [ __ ]
41:11about insulin, but the reason why they
41:15bought the program was because the
41:16outcome was fat loss and better health.
41:19So, there's multiple different outcomes,
41:20right? Um, and so in order to figure
41:25out, okay, how do we talk about insulin
41:28in a way that people care about, we had
41:31to find scenarios where people didn't
41:33care about the mechanism and they cared
41:36about the the outcome instead. We had to
41:38find scenarios on YouTube where people
41:41did that and they succeeded with it. And
41:42that's why we found the format of if you
41:45don't understand this thing, you don't
41:46understand this thing because we were
41:48looking at niches where there were a lot
41:49of intricate things like lots of things
41:53that people didn't care about or that
41:55they didn't know cuz there were lots of
41:56specific nuance things but there was the
41:57overarching outcome and desire at the
41:59end of it that was like usually the
42:01broad level of the niche. So, and then
42:03but then how do you keep it up? Like is
42:06every video just like that or like after
42:10the insulin video? How do you guys like
42:12keep it up on other videos to always
42:13keep bringing in new people?
42:14>> Yeah, like sometimes insulin like
42:16sometimes the mechanism is not going to
42:17be in the title. So, you know, for
42:19example, we had how to lose fat so fast
42:22it feels like cheating. And there's no
42:26mention of insulin there, but what we
42:29did know was that insulin would make a
42:31great mechanism for the content that
42:32would drive high viewer satisfaction. So
42:35like sometimes you have to reposition
42:38the fact that nobody knows your
42:39mechanism as an advantage rather than a
42:41disadvantage
42:43because
42:44it's a disadvantage when you try and
42:46make videos directly around it because
42:47there's no existing demand. It's an
42:49advantage when you use it sometimes in
42:52the title to drive curiosity because
42:54they're like oh like new new sexy thing
42:56you know new thing that's like I haven't
42:58heard of and it helps me achieve this
43:00outcome. It gives this impression of,
43:03oh, like maybe this is going to be the
43:04cheat code to this thing that I've been
43:05looking for all my life, right? That's
43:07what it is. And so that's why new
43:09bisops, if done right, could work so
43:12well on YouTube, is because it's like
43:14the outcome is seeing success of making
43:17money and it's like here's this new
43:19thing, this new way of doing that,
43:21right? And so it's like it feels like
43:23the thing that they've been looking for
43:25that's going to be the cheat code to the
43:26outcome. Also, sometimes you're just
43:29using the mechanism to in the content to
43:33make the content really unique. So, even
43:35with Iman Gatsy's big viral video sales
43:38letter from back in the day, the best
43:40online business model for beginners in
43:422020, whatever,
43:44he used SMMA as a unique mechanism and
43:49he articulated it, the sales argument
43:51around it in such a way where like it
43:53clicked for viewers where it's like, oh
43:55my god, like this makes so much sense.
43:56this is the best business model, right?
43:58He explained why all these other
43:59business models weren't the best. And
44:01then he brought in this concept of SMMA
44:05and arbitrage and contractors and all
44:08this stuff which just like nobody had
44:09ever spoke about on YouTube before. But
44:11if he had SMMA in the title, then it
44:14wouldn't have worked at the time. But
44:15instead, he used it as an advantage
44:17where that video got however many
44:18million views and generate like tens of
44:20millions of dollars if not over hundred
44:22million dollars from that one video. M
44:24>> so you got to use it to your advantage
44:26instead. But in terms of figuring out
44:27how to package it in the title, you have
44:29to look for situations where it's
44:30similar. So if you got a new bisop, you
44:32have to look at niches where bisops were
44:36like were created and what sort of
44:39messaging did they use in order to break
44:42through and resonate with people, right?
44:45>> Um as well as not just titles but also
44:47the thumbnails too.
44:48So do you have like I mean obviously
44:51besides Gary Vee do you have like
44:52another example I think last time we
44:54spoke about Dr. Shawn of like where you
44:57came in in a channel you did research
44:59properly and just the research like
45:01flipped the channel upside down
45:03>> Dr. Sha he was getting like a th000
45:06views a day within less than a month he
45:09went to 100,000 views a day his email
45:11marketing system became broke because
45:13like it broke the email marketing system
45:15because of the lead flow that they had.
45:17So I can probably give the screenshot or
45:19whatever of this, but yeah, like his
45:22channel became extremely successful in a
45:24very short period of time. And
45:26beforehand, he was kind of just picking
45:28videos around topics. He was making
45:30videos around topics that he just wanted
45:31to make videos around like and what he
45:32thought his target market wanted. So
45:34based on his current business, he was
45:35like, "Okay, I think my target market
45:37want to make I think my target market
45:38want to consume videos around infrared
45:40sauners and benefits of infrared sauners
45:44and this and that." Right? So
45:46>> he was just basing videos what of what
45:48he thought his market wanted without
45:50actually seeing if they really wanted it
45:52off of YouTube. So the first step was
45:54actually validating demand around topics
45:56in his niche. So we did the process of
45:58research that I described earlier where
46:01we first understood his market deeply
46:02which by the way is the most crucial
46:04step before research is actually
46:05understanding the market to such a good
46:07degree to where you can do that research
46:08and understand the psychology of the
46:10viewers so on and so forth. We did that
46:12pre-work and then we researched his
46:15niche with all of these core seed search
46:18terms where we went through we validated
46:19the demand around visceral fat and like
46:22all of these different topics in his
46:23niche and visceral fat was the one that
46:25stood out the most as it was getting
46:27millions and millions and millions of
46:28views. It was hyper relevant to what his
46:31target market wanted. They wanted to
46:32lose visceral fat and yet he hadn't
46:35really made any videos tackling the
46:36topic of visceral fat. Another one was
46:39carnivore diet. So carnivore diet was
46:41massively trending but he had never made
46:43a video around carnivore diet. He just
46:44made a video around like good foods to
46:46eat and just not positioned and messaged
46:48correctly even if it was the same
46:49underlying topic. So once we did that
46:51and we validated the demand it was then
46:53a case of packaging. And so what we did
46:55for that is all this adjacent niche
46:57research and also just through the
46:59visibility we have of like the 100 plus
47:00channels that we run and you know doing
47:02YouTube for all this time we were able
47:05to see certain formats that were working
47:06across all these different niches. One
47:08of the biggest ones which a lot of
47:09people will have seen if they consume a
47:10lot of YouTube is how to do this thing
47:12so fast it feels like cheating or it
47:14feels illegal. So it's been done in
47:16niches like studying, how to study so
47:18fast it feels like cheating. Uh how to
47:21get customers so fast it feels like
47:23cheating. Lots of titles like this. Why
47:26does that format work? That format works
47:28because it's basically saying like how
47:29to do this thing that you desire to do
47:32so fast because there's speed where
47:34people value speed in this given
47:35scenario. so fast it feels like cheating
47:38and and so it works where people want to
47:41do something really fast and they want
47:44to feel like it's a cheat code. They
47:45want to feel like they're kind of
47:46cheating the game. Like studying so fast
47:48it feels like cheating. Cheating in
47:50studying like this is a common thing
47:52that it's like ooh like this is a little
47:53bit naughty but I'm not actually being
47:54naughty. I'm just like I'm I'm not
47:57actually cheating but I'm getting the
47:58same benefits, right? And so like that's
48:00the underlying feeling. It's like ooh
48:02like I'm going to learn some secrets in
48:03this video. So that transfers really
48:05well to how to lose fat so fast it feels
48:07like cheating or how to lose visceral
48:08fat so it feels so fast it feels like
48:09cheating because cheating like as if I'm
48:12you know taking ompic or like one of
48:14these GLPs but I'm not I'm doing it the
48:16healthy way but it it feels like that.
48:18So and people want to lose it fast.
48:20Ideally they'd literally lose it right
48:21now immediately. So there's that desire
48:23there. So that title gets them. So
48:25that's the video we did. How to lose
48:26visual fat so fast it feels like
48:27cheating. That's sitting at like over
48:28800,000 views counting towards a million
48:31now. And there's lots of other videos
48:33like that that we've done for him. But
48:35the process is the same. First,
48:37validating the demand around the topic
48:39that you're making the video around
48:40because there's no point making a video
48:41around something that doesn't have
48:42demand in the first place. Making sure
48:44that you're messaging that topic
48:46correctly, the right right wording. And
48:48then once you know there's potential
48:49there that you're satisfied with, and
48:50you know that if you captured, you'd be
48:52happy. How do you then actually fulfill
48:54that potential and with the highest
48:57likelihood stand out against all of the
48:59other videos around that topic right now
49:01in the market and win the winner take
49:04all game of YouTube and get clicked on
49:06over all of the other videos. And that's
49:07where the visibility from all these
49:10other niches comes in because that's
49:11what's going to give you the best
49:12information to make the right decision
49:13on how to package the video.
49:15>> Yeah. So now I want to get to the other
49:17part which is say you've done the
49:18research, you have your database, you
49:21have everything ready, you've analyzed
49:23everything possible in the world. How do
49:26you go from having all that data and
49:29then getting video ideas out of it?
49:31>> Mhm. So
49:33having the data is useless if you don't
49:35interpret the data. So like you can find
49:38the outliers, but the next step after
49:41finding the videos that have succeeded
49:43and the data is interpreting it and
49:46actually really getting to the bottom of
49:48why it succeeded. And this is where like
49:51you have to understand your target
49:53market to such a deep level. Otherwise,
49:55you're not going to be able to
49:56understand the reason why. Like most
49:58people study outlier theory and all
50:01these YouTube tactics. The most
50:03important thing to know first is
50:05studying psychology and emotional
50:07intelligence and first principles
50:09thinking because that's like your
50:11foundation to be able to interpret data
50:13correctly on YouTube. Because once you
50:14find a video that has worked really well
50:16and multiple videos that have a pattern
50:17between them, you have to be able to be
50:19intelligent enough in that aspect to
50:21like get to the bottom of why and be
50:23crystal clear on that because when you
50:25find out the why, that's how you can
50:28make sure you transfer it correctly to
50:30your niche or you realize it's not
50:32something that you can transfer like a
50:33title format. Like I said earlier, not
50:35every title format is going to make
50:37sense to do in your niche with your
50:39audience because the reasons why it
50:40succeeded over here wouldn't work over
50:42here cuz the audiences are different,
50:44the scenario is different, etc. So,
50:46first really understand your target
50:48market and you know understand
50:51psychology, emotional intelligence,
50:52etc., etc. That's actually the most
50:54important.
50:54>> Even though you have the whole database
50:56research and everything, if you don't
50:58understand psychology,
51:00uh would you recommend reading a book
51:01like Breakthrough Advertising?
51:02>> Yeah.
51:03>> Okay.
51:04marketing principles or people that's
51:05why
51:06>> awareness levels basically the whole
51:07shebang if you don't understand that
51:09>> then there's then essentially you still
51:12like you're you would still be stuck
51:14>> yes
51:14>> okay so first you do that then say you
51:16go ahead you read these books
51:17>> and you learn about marketing psychology
51:19awareness levels everything you need to
51:20know
51:22>> then how do you get ideas out of that
51:23>> yeah so and so then you've got all this
51:25data the next step is pattern
51:28recognition recognizing patterns between
51:30certain data so this is where you start
51:32to form title formats where certain
51:36types of titles just work and you
51:38understand why they work. So you're
51:39interpreting that data and you
51:40understand okay this works in this
51:42scenario. This works when we are doing
51:44this type of video. This works when we
51:46are targeting this type of audience and
51:49so you build the formats and you build
51:51the scenarios and where those formats
51:53can be applied which effectively become
51:55tools in your arsenal to whip out in a
51:57scenario where there's an opportunity to
51:58do so. Same goes for thumbnail styles.
52:01Same goes for the content itself. That
52:04the ideas stem from knowing where demand
52:08is distributed in your niche, like what
52:09topics to tackle in the first place
52:11>> and seeing the videos that are being
52:13made around those topics and comparing
52:17it comparing the way those videos are
52:18packaged to all what like everything
52:22else that's working elsewhere on YouTube
52:24as well. all the different title because
52:25once you see once you see what's
52:27happening in your niche currently, what
52:28is capturing demand, what is succeeding,
52:30but also what's what how are those
52:32videos being packaged in your niche and
52:33you compare that to what's working
52:35elsewhere, you're able to spot the gaps
52:36in the market. Like for the visceral fat
52:38example, we saw that everybody was just
52:41saying like, you know, if I wanted to
52:42lose visceral fat in this much time, I'd
52:44do this. So there wasn't a lot of
52:46innovation with that format. So we took
52:48a format that was working elsewhere that
52:49would apply perfectly to it and
52:51therefore it struck a nerve really well.
52:52So the ideas come from understanding
52:55your market, understanding where there's
52:56demand and then the visibility elsewhere
52:58of understanding like what is working
53:00elsewhere that isn't being done in my
53:02niche.
53:03>> Okay. And then in terms of like how does
53:05that change comparing to like the
53:07person's fame? Like how do you approach
53:12post research making the video like
53:14picking videos if it's a Gary Vee or if
53:16it's a random new person that has 500
53:20subs? Is it any difference or just
53:22>> doesn't change at all because we want to
53:24grow the audience and so we need to
53:27optimize for new viewership. Like I
53:29think if somebody's super famous then
53:31you're able to lean on returning
53:33viewership a lot more like using their
53:35face. Why is this is why Steven Bartlet
53:37has his face and thumbnails because he's
53:38at a stage right now to where his face
53:41is recognizable. Mr. Beast always has
53:43his face in thumbnails even if he's not
53:44the main subject in the video. He always
53:46has it. Right. So when you've got that
53:48level of fame, then there's small things
53:51that you do to, you know, like there's
53:54the small differences, but you're always
53:57going to optimize for new viewership and
53:59assume that nobody knows who you are
54:02when the when you make decisions. So
54:04nothing really changes there.
54:06>> And then how do you know whether if you
54:08have a video idea, you're just chasing
54:11as many views as possible or if you're
54:13chasing quality views? And is there even
54:16a difference?
54:18>> Yeah. So, I always optimize like my my
54:22north star when growing a channel is
54:24views
54:26from expected target market. Like it's
54:29the amount of views that I get from what
54:33I would predict would be the target
54:34market. So, views is still the core KPI,
54:36but
54:37>> so you're still optimizing for views,
54:39but you shouldn't be optimizing for
54:40views when you logically look at your
54:42title and thumbnail and you're like,
54:42"This attracts a low quality audience."
54:45Have you ever has that ever happened to
54:46you where you get a client get them so
54:48many views, but it just
54:51>> um I'm sure it's happened in a couple
54:52cases, but I would say the reverse of it
54:54where we've expected that, oh, like this
54:57video is super top of funnel, right? Oh,
54:59it's a super top funnel video. We're
55:00expecting that this isn't going to
55:01convert well and then it ends up being
55:02the highest grossing video on the entire
55:04channel. Like it both
55:06>> gets the most views and also collects
55:07the most cash. Maybe the conversion rate
55:10from the views was lower,
55:12>> but it doesn't matter because that
55:13wasn't a constraint in this case cuz we
55:15just got way more views and it still
55:16converted well, right? It still
55:18attracted the right people, but it
55:19obviously just got a broader net.
55:20>> So, I think yeah, this stuff about like
55:23top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom
55:25of funnel, I think people really
55:26overthink it to be honest. I think like
55:28you've got to just select making the
55:29best videos based on everything I've
55:31talked about and with the filter that it
55:34needs to attract your core target
55:35market. But like, okay, so what about
55:37those people that have multiple channels
55:40where it's like one is a bit more broad
55:42and they have other channels that are a
55:43bit like super business focused like
55:44Hermosi now has like three, four
55:46channels. Like
55:48is that wrong? No, that's I think that's
55:50complete. That's right to do that. But
55:52that's right to do that for the reason
55:53of if you are making a bunch of videos
55:57on one channel where some videos bring
55:59in viewers that won't watch all the
56:01other videos and vice versa, that's bad
56:04for the channel health because then
56:06returning viewership is low on the
56:08channel and that breaks YouTube's
56:11confidence to push it further because
56:12YouTube's like, well, if the returning
56:14viewers and the existing viewers aren't
56:16watching videos from this channel, then
56:18you know, I don't feel as confident to
56:19push it to the new viewers. So, it's
56:21just good hygiene to isolate
56:24the audiences of the diff the different
56:26audiences of the different types of
56:27videos.
56:28>> And then how different would you say
56:30like YouTube strategy is for like a B2B
56:33offer versus a B TOC? Do you think it's
56:35like a whole different game? Does it all
56:36come down to the same principles? What's
56:38the difference? it. So the way it
56:40differs is back to first principles
56:42which is not always but oftent times the
56:44viewers are going to have different
56:45behaviors like for example BTOC in a
56:49niche like drop shipping or bisop
56:51typically depending on the bisop you're
56:53going to have a younger audience who is
56:54less mature who is more exposed to
56:58content and therefore has a lower
56:59attention span and therefore resonates
57:02better and responds better to retention
57:04editing and more in-your-face sort of
57:07highly packaged videos. Whereas a more
57:08sophisticated audience, if you had that
57:09same retention editing and very
57:12photoshopped thumbnails where it's like
57:15very evidently photoshopped and fake,
57:17they're not going to respond as well to
57:18that. So, it does just come back to
57:20understanding your audience. And this is
57:21where people might take it wrong. They
57:22might see a thumbnail style that's
57:24working really well in a B TOC market
57:26where it's like holding up the phone
57:27with like the money dashboard and then
57:29they use it in like a highly
57:31sophisticated market where like clearly
57:3440-year-old CEO who's got a
57:37>> eight n figure company is not going to
57:39click on that video right but people
57:41make this mistake all the time
57:43>> so it just comes back to again that's
57:45why I suggest really understanding your
57:47market and before all of that
57:48understanding psychology and first
57:50principles thinking of
57:52Why has this thing worked and would this
57:55work
57:55>> for my target market?
57:57>> So now let's say I think a lot of people
57:59they pick the right videos. So let's say
58:02I picked the right video essentially but
58:04I don't want to [ __ ] it up. Like the
58:07next step is how do you ideulate the
58:09title and the thumbnail for that video?
58:11Like what does that process look like?
58:13You found the idea. You got it right and
58:15you did the research. You did everything
58:16you had to do. You freaking read the
58:18books. You did everything. I have the
58:20video idea. How do you plan out the
58:22title, the thumbnail for that video?
58:24>> Do you mean like the if you have the
58:25topic?
58:26>> So, what you just rip the same title and
58:27thumbnail and just replace it with what
58:29you have.
58:29>> Well, no. I just don't know if you're
58:30asking I don't know if you're asking
58:31like I don't know if you're asking
58:33specifically
58:35idea. Once you have the idea in terms of
58:36you have the title and you have the
58:38thumbnail, what do you do next? Or if
58:39it's like
58:39>> like you have the general idea of the
58:41video, like you found someone that had
58:42an outlier.
58:43>> Mhm.
58:44>> Okay. And then it's like, oh, like okay,
58:46I want to copy that video.
58:48>> Yeah.
58:49>> Okay. where like you found a video you
58:51want to do, whether it's like that video
58:52of like, oh, if you don't understand
58:53this, do this.
58:54>> Do you just like how do you plan the
58:56title and the thumbnail there? How do
58:57you plan your own like thumbnails like
58:59>> Yeah.
59:00>> or just you just rip the same thing?
59:01>> Yeah. So, the title is straightforward.
59:02Like once you find something that works,
59:03the title is usually quite
59:05straightforward if you're taking
59:06inspiration from a particular title
59:08format in a scenario where multiple
59:10titles have succeeded with the same
59:12underlying pattern
59:13>> because you are taking whatever that
59:16common denominator is with that format.
59:18like what are the what is the thing that
59:19is true across all of these titles
59:22extracting what isn't true across all of
59:24these titles which is typically the
59:26topic is the thing that is removed and
59:28variable you take it over and again
59:31understanding why this worked does that
59:33same reason carry over to your niche
59:36well if you don't understand this you
59:37don't understand this if you don't
59:38understand bonds you don't understand
59:39money okay that worked because bonds
59:41people don't know what bonds are but
59:42they want money so bond understanding
59:44bonds seems like the unlock to getting
59:46money okay well uh insulin and fat loss.
59:49People really want fat loss, but they
59:51definitely don't understand insulin.
59:53Most people don't. Okay, that transfers
59:54over. So, I can assume that that would
59:55work. And so, the title's
59:57straightforward in that nature, you're
59:58just making sure the reason transfers
59:59over. And when you objectively look at
1:00:01the final title and zoom out, data
1:00:03aside, is that something your target
1:00:05market wants? Like, does that strike a
1:00:06nerve logically with your target market?
1:00:08Because at the end of the day, title
1:00:10formats aren't woo. It's like, should
1:00:12that work? Right? Title's very
1:00:14straightforward there. thumbnails.
1:00:17Sometimes the thumbnails are
1:00:18straightforward because sometimes title
1:00:21formats also have a thumbnail format
1:00:23pair where like a certain type of title
1:00:25format has its thumbnail format that's
1:00:28associated with it. So sometimes you
1:00:30also just transfer over the same thing
1:00:32where you take the reason and you take
1:00:34the common denominator of the thumbnail
1:00:36and why that worked for this format and
1:00:38you take it over to yours adapting to
1:00:40things that obviously need to be changed
1:00:41because you're in a different niche, a
1:00:43different setting, etc. Other times you
1:00:44do have to kind of invent the thumbnail
1:00:46without taking it from inspiration from
1:00:47the other videos because you wouldn't
1:00:49take the same thumbnail.
1:00:50>> When you like invent the thumbnail now
1:00:52you like send you send a brief to the
1:00:54designer like the thumbnail designer
1:00:56like what are you what are you sending
1:00:58out to the team or the thumbnail
1:00:59designer to get the result you want to
1:01:01get
1:01:01>> the concept. So you shouldn't rely on a
1:01:02thumbnail designer to be conceptualizing
1:01:06the actual thumbnail. You have
1:01:07>> you like sketch it out? Do you
1:01:09>> sketch it out or you give it reference?
1:01:12you give the references of the
1:01:14thumbnails you're taking inspiration
1:01:15from and describe the differences and
1:01:17you just cast the vision very clearly as
1:01:19to what you want. But I think the
1:01:21greater point is
1:01:23how do you actually design the right
1:01:26thumbnail concept? Um, and so I think
1:01:30there's again it it comes down to first
1:01:32principles where often times the best
1:01:34thing to do to be able to make an
1:01:37effective thumbnail is just visually
1:01:40representing the desired outcome
1:01:42associated with the video in the most
1:01:44clear simple way. Because think about
1:01:46the job of a thumbnail if we break
1:01:49YouTube down as a process and that part
1:01:52of the process where it's the video
1:01:54lands on the feed. This is where the
1:01:55thumbnail comes into things. The job of
1:01:58a thumbnail is to one capture the
1:02:01attention of the target market
1:02:04before any of the other videos do. It's
1:02:07first to grab attention first so that
1:02:09they consider your video first before
1:02:10they click on another video. The second
1:02:12part of the job of a thumbnail is once
1:02:14it's captured that attention, it's
1:02:15actually driving enough curiosity,
1:02:17driving enough interest to get them to
1:02:21click or at least get them to read the
1:02:23title to which then sells them on the
1:02:25video. That's the job of a thumbnail.
1:02:27And so if you break down how do I do
1:02:30that? How do I capture the attention of
1:02:31the target market before they look at
1:02:33any of the other videos? This is where
1:02:35thumbnail tactics like three element
1:02:38rule and blah blah blah, they all come
1:02:40into things because the reason why three
1:02:41element rule generally speaking is a
1:02:43good tactic is because you are having
1:02:47enough elements to where you can
1:02:48generate clarity but not too many
1:02:50elements to where it's confusion. So if
1:02:52you're using the right three elements,
1:02:54you're able to, you know, effectively
1:02:56capture the attention. So this is why I
1:02:58always come back to like the tactics
1:02:59exist like adjacent niche ideation and
1:03:03three element rule and all these things
1:03:04and they're not necessarily wrong. It's
1:03:06just you're going to misapply them. And
1:03:08also there's plenty of the tactics that
1:03:10you're not aware of that nobody talks
1:03:11about that you can figure out through
1:03:14first principles. And one of those that
1:03:16I don't hear a lot of people talk about
1:03:17is just visually visually representing
1:03:21the desired outcome associated with the
1:03:22video, which is going to be the thing
1:03:24that captures the target market most
1:03:26effectively. Because if this is the
1:03:27thing they always dream about and
1:03:29picture in their mind, if you are
1:03:30accurately visually representing that in
1:03:32a very simplistic way, what else is
1:03:34going to capture their attention before
1:03:36any of the other videos? Cuz it's
1:03:38literally the thing that they want that
1:03:40makes them feel emotional inside. And if
1:03:43you do that that you've got their
1:03:44attention and then you have an element
1:03:46of curiosity that makes them think,
1:03:48wait, what? Like this looks interesting.
1:03:50Like for example visually representing
1:03:54the transformation from fat to dream
1:03:57shape with the word insulin above it.
1:04:00What? Let me see what this video is
1:04:01about. If you don't understand insulin,
1:04:03you don't understand fat loss. You don't
1:04:05understand insulin. So then they click
1:04:07or Dr. to Sean's example similar where
1:04:09it's like we have the fat to dream shape
1:04:13and then we have before after and behind
1:04:17that we have the red highlight block
1:04:19with the white text that is taken from
1:04:22channels like diary CEO but why does
1:04:24that work because it's bright red on a
1:04:26dark background and it grabs your
1:04:28attention so visually you see the red
1:04:30box and you see underneath it then dream
1:04:33shape like you got to think through what
1:04:34the viewer is going to see and then they
1:04:36see Dr. Sha and medical scrubs which in
1:04:40a given instance they're like this guy's
1:04:41a doctor and an authority on this topic
1:04:43and so they can already put together
1:04:45generally what the video is about but
1:04:46then they read the title how to lose
1:04:48visceral fat so fast it feels like
1:04:49cheating. So the thumbnail and title
1:04:51work together but the thumbnail is what
1:04:54catches that initial attention. So all
1:04:56this to say is like the biggest thing
1:05:00that they have to carry through
1:05:01everything is understanding the first
1:05:03principles and really going deep on like
1:05:06understanding
1:05:07the decisions that the viewers making at
1:05:09every single stage of spending their
1:05:12attention from the moment they land on
1:05:13YouTube all the way through to the very
1:05:15end of watching a video and are they
1:05:17satisfied or not. So thumbnails the
1:05:20biggest advice. Yes, there's these
1:05:21tactics like three element rule,
1:05:22visually representing the desired
1:05:24outcome associated with the video,
1:05:26having a curiosity gap, so on and so
1:05:28forth. But these things become obvious
1:05:31when you really break down the job of a
1:05:32thumbnail and you think through from the
1:05:35viewers's perspective of how can I
1:05:38influence their decision-m by the
1:05:40decisions that I make. How can I
1:05:41influence them looking at my video first
1:05:43over all of the others? How can I then
1:05:45influence them clicking on my video
1:05:46before they consider another video? How
1:05:49can I do that in the shortest amount of
1:05:50time to not even give them a chance?
1:05:52>> And so, how many thumbnails do you test?
1:05:56It depends on where the uncertainty lies
1:05:59because sometimes we'll not test any
1:06:02thumbnails because then if we're
1:06:04confident, if we're 100% confident in a
1:06:06certain thumbnail, there's a
1:06:07disadvantage to testing thumbnails,
1:06:09especially on a newer channel or a
1:06:12smaller channel because you're splitting
1:06:14the watchtime share.
1:06:16>> What's a smaller channel for you?
1:06:18>> Like
1:06:20sub a,000/ low thousands of views per
1:06:22video. It depends on the market of
1:06:24course, but like think about a for a
1:06:26thumbnail test to have a conclusive
1:06:28outcome like this thumbnail was the one
1:06:31that got higher watchtime share. For
1:06:32that to actually happen, there has to be
1:06:34enough data collected. And so if you're
1:06:36not going to get enough data in the
1:06:38first place, you're going to slow the
1:06:41testing process with YouTube because
1:06:43it's going to look at this thumbnail.
1:06:45Okay, 30 views on that thumbnail, 30
1:06:48views on this thumbnail, like it's
1:06:49inconclusive data. So if you're
1:06:51confident on what is the right
1:06:52thumbnail, then you should run with that
1:06:54because then all of the attention is
1:06:56going towards that and you'll therefore
1:06:57be able to give YouTube significant
1:07:00amount of data to be able to make a
1:07:01decision on whether to push your video
1:07:02further. So you should never test a
1:07:05thumbnail just because like if you're
1:07:07super confident on what is the right
1:07:08thumbnail. You should only test it if
1:07:10there's uncertainty. But even still, if
1:07:13you're doing the right pre-work in the
1:07:15research, you should still be extremely
1:07:17confident in every thumbnail that you're
1:07:19testing, right? So, you shouldn't be
1:07:21like just testing random thumbnails for
1:07:23the sake of it, you know?
1:07:24>> So, say like you you're like very
1:07:25confident in a thumbnail, but it flops.
1:07:27How long do you wait to know it flopped?
1:07:30>> Yeah. So, like this is where we get this
1:07:32is kind of where we get into analyzing
1:07:34the video post performance because
1:07:37it depends if the video flopped because
1:07:39of the thumbnail first of all. Like what
1:07:40if the thumbnail wasn't the reason why
1:07:42the video flopped? It might have been
1:07:44the title. So you have to first actually
1:07:46diagnose
1:07:48what is the hypothesized reason why this
1:07:50video
1:07:51>> it could be like right title, right
1:07:52thumbnail, but bad video.
1:07:54>> Exactly. That's the thing. So like
1:07:55you're going to do this is why you have
1:07:57to Yes. look at the analytics, but you
1:08:00have to the analytics are just signal as
1:08:02to what to look at further. They're not
1:08:04the thing that tells you what to do.
1:08:06Like low clickthrough rate doesn't tell
1:08:08you to change the thumbnail. Yeah. Like,
1:08:10sorry to cut you off. So, like, what
1:08:12would you look at to know the video is
1:08:13the problem? Would it be like average
1:08:15view duration or like other stats like
1:08:17that? Like, retention?
1:08:19>> Yes.
1:08:19>> Cuz that that
1:08:20>> Okay. So, the video has failed if it
1:08:22drives low viewer satisfaction, which is
1:08:25a culmination of multiple things. And
1:08:27so, it can be harder to diagnose because
1:08:29it factors in, yes, watch time, but
1:08:31we've had videos that have gotten
1:08:32hundreds of thousands of views with 6%
1:08:34watch time. In fact, my video had 11%
1:08:36watch time, but it's the biggest video
1:08:38in the YouTube growth niche and added
1:08:39200k MRO. So, it's successful.
1:08:41>> Even one of our pods, like the duration
1:08:43was like lower,
1:08:45>> but it just kept ripping like crazy.
1:08:46>> So, yeah, it's it's a it's one factor,
1:08:49but then there's also session duration.
1:08:51Do they go and watch more of your
1:08:52videos? There is positive comment to
1:08:55view ratio, how many positive comments
1:08:57to the amount of views that the video
1:08:59has. And also there's the actual
1:09:01qualitative
1:09:03sentiment of those comments. Like when
1:09:05you look at those comments, what is the
1:09:07sort of feedback that you're getting? Is
1:09:09is it people just being like good video
1:09:11or is it people being like oh my god
1:09:13like this video was so good and x y and
1:09:15z. How is this video not blown up yet?
1:09:18Like and then also like to view ratio,
1:09:20subscriber to view ratio. It's
1:09:21everything even surveys. But I will say
1:09:24the most leading indicator of a
1:09:27successful video before the video has
1:09:30been pushed is comment sentiment and
1:09:33positive comment to view ratio followed
1:09:35by like to view ratio and subscriber to
1:09:37view ratio. Because like with my video,
1:09:40even when it had a couple thousand
1:09:41views, it had numerous comments being
1:09:43like, "Oh my god, I've never heard this
1:09:45advice before. How is this video not
1:09:46blown up? How does this channel only
1:09:47have 4,000 subscribers?" Now the video
1:09:50has over 700,000 views. The channel
1:09:52already has like 15,000 and counting and
1:09:54soon will be the biggest channel in the
1:09:56YouTube growth niche. But like
1:09:59that was that that is something that I
1:10:01have seen consistently as an early
1:10:04predictor of success that nobody talks
1:10:06about. So
1:10:07>> yeah, I've seen that too. You can feel
1:10:09it.
1:10:10>> Yeah.
1:10:10>> When you start to see comments, you can
1:10:11feel like it's a runner. It's just
1:10:13positive positive positive like. Or it
1:10:16could also be comments that they like
1:10:18the person in the video so much.
1:10:20Personality.
1:10:21>> Yeah. Like something's different.
1:10:22>> It's either value or personality. Like
1:10:24when we did a couple pods,
1:10:26>> some people you can just tell like,
1:10:28"Wow, they have like a real like a crazy
1:10:31fan base."
1:10:32>> And we started to see a lot of comments
1:10:33like, "All right, it's a runner." Yeah.
1:10:34>> Because they have more people that are
1:10:35fans. And it just never stops. So it's
1:10:37like, yeah, if you make a video, you can
1:10:39like And the thing is you can be
1:10:41conscious when you're making a video.
1:10:43Oh, this is going to get comments.
1:10:45>> This is going to get a comment. Oh,
1:10:46let's talk about that. That's going to
1:10:48get a comment. Or like
1:10:50>> um that's why I like examples so much
1:10:52cuz when you use live examples or you
1:10:54test someone live, it's like, oh [ __ ]
1:10:57he actually Do you know that a couple
1:10:59people be like, "Damn, he actually [ __ ]
1:11:01tested himself and it worked." Or like,
1:11:03"Oh, damn, they actually did it." And
1:11:04then you know what I mean? Like you can
1:11:06>> you can actually like engineer it.
1:11:08>> Yeah.
1:11:09>> But you also have to know who you're
1:11:10speaking to. And I think that's why it
1:11:12comes back to awareness level. So like
1:11:13do your research because if you know who
1:11:15you're speaking to, it's like you know
1:11:17exactly what you have to say to trigger
1:11:18them.
1:11:19>> So I don't know. I think I think it's
1:11:21super interesting because it's all like
1:11:22engineering at the end of the day.
1:11:23>> Yeah. I think cuz like that Yeah, it's
1:11:26definitely the strongest predictor like
1:11:27with my with my video like I
1:11:29intentionally deployed a lot of aha
1:11:31moments which like I really carefully
1:11:33structured when delivering the
1:11:34presentation and after the after the
1:11:36presentation as well in person people
1:11:37were saying like oh I never heard
1:11:38anybody talk about the death first
1:11:40search algorithm. It was such an
1:11:41interesting way of thinking about
1:11:42YouTube when all these content people
1:11:43are talking like, oh, like brand
1:11:46identity, but you're just like math, you
1:11:48know, computer science algorithms. It's
1:11:50like a unique perspective of, you know,
1:11:52and and so I think and and I got that
1:11:54signal in person, but then I also got
1:11:56that when I did the video and and this
1:11:57is so it's definitely by far the biggest
1:12:00thing. And equally, if you're getting
1:12:02thousands of views but no comments,
1:12:03that's when I've typically seen like a
1:12:05flatline later following it, right? So,
1:12:08I would say it's all of those things
1:12:10together. Like, if you're seeing you're
1:12:11getting a lot of positive comments early
1:12:13on, and you've got a higher number of
1:12:15views, you've got a high and you've got
1:12:17a higher number of likes for how many
1:12:18views you have, and you're getting a lot
1:12:20of subscribers for how many views you
1:12:21have, too. Like, those three things
1:12:23stack together. That's why it's
1:12:24everything. You look at the whole
1:12:25picture, you can tell like, oh, like
1:12:27something I feel something different
1:12:29with this video.
1:12:30>> Yeah. So, something I'm curious about is
1:12:32when you have like your thumbnails, what
1:12:34are you using to test? Do you have like
1:12:36your own thumbnail like testing tool?
1:12:38Did you do you use YouTube? Like what
1:12:41are you using to test?
1:12:42>> Yeah, I just I just use YouTube. Like I
1:12:45just use the native YouTube tool to do
1:12:47the testing of thumbnails. But I
1:12:50typically run thumbnail tests manually
1:12:52because I typically have a lot of high
1:12:53conviction in the thumbnail that I'm
1:12:55running with. Like again, I test for
1:12:56uncertainty. So if I'm uncertain on what
1:12:59is the best thumbnail despite I know
1:13:01both of them are super strong because
1:13:02I've done the proper pre-work, I'll test
1:13:04two. If there's three where I'm like,
1:13:06okay, I've got one where it's this
1:13:08concept, but I want to test this
1:13:10slightly different quote to see which
1:13:12one gets resonance more, but then I've
1:13:13got this concept, which I think is a bit
1:13:14of a wild card, but this could work
1:13:16really, really well. I'll do that.
1:13:17Sometimes it's two thumbnails and two
1:13:19titles, or sometimes it's all titles.
1:13:20>> It's really just like a feeling thing,
1:13:22too, of like that's what I'm starting to
1:13:24tell from what like a lot of the stuff
1:13:26you're mentioning is like just know who
1:13:27you're speaking to. And then some people
1:13:29were like, I want to test five
1:13:30thumbnails, like I want to rehash every
1:13:32two weeks. Well, then it's like, is
1:13:34there even a point? Like,
1:13:36>> it's like, is that the mech though?
1:13:37That's the thing. Like, what's there's
1:13:39no point in rehashing thumbnails if the
1:13:42video evidently when you do a analysis,
1:13:45a post uh upload analysis, like that was
1:13:47the problem, you know, cuz if you look
1:13:49at the retention graph and you see, oh
1:13:51my god, there's a massive drop here. Oh,
1:13:53I gave a super hard direct call to
1:13:55action. Probably why I dropped. Let me
1:13:56cut that out. And also going forward,
1:13:58let me message my call to actions
1:13:59better. Bro, it's it's like when Ryan
1:14:01Clog was popping off, people were like,
1:14:03"Oh my god, dude, he find the format."
1:14:04It's like, "No, like the vid the format
1:14:06and the the video like from from an
1:14:08outside perspective, it was shit." But
1:14:11when people watched it, the like 50
1:14:13people that gave him a shot were like,
1:14:15"What the [ __ ] This guy's going to
1:14:16blow." And guess what? They like another
1:14:18way of commenting is people posting that
1:14:20video on like Twitter.
1:14:22>> Yeah.
1:14:22>> Being like, "Dude, this guy's going to
1:14:23[ __ ] blow up. this guy's going to
1:14:24[ __ ] Like that's another way of like
1:14:26showing it. Or like people sitting there
1:14:28and like making a story on a guy being
1:14:30like, I don't know how this is like
1:14:32still like at 100 views. Like if you do
1:14:34that level,
1:14:36>> that's when you start like it's like
1:14:37these weird like things that make people
1:14:41like take action or act a certain way.
1:14:43But the the funny thing is these
1:14:45concepts, they apply to like a bunch of
1:14:46stuff. It's like when you're building a
1:14:47software company, it's the same thing.
1:14:48When you're building a product and ecom,
1:14:50it's the same. when you're doing a
1:14:51YouTube video, it's just it's like
1:14:53>> it comes down to like marketing
1:14:54psychology. It's like
1:14:55>> I remember when the first time I had the
1:14:57idea for that screenshot of the YouTube
1:14:58video with like the clicks, the book
1:15:00calls, cash collected, I was like I knew
1:15:02would [ __ ] hit. Yeah.
1:15:03>> Cuz no one had ever shared something
1:15:05like that before. And now it's like all
1:15:06over Twitter all the time.
1:15:07>> And I think like the sharability
1:15:10like you have to genuinely know you're
1:15:11like shocking someone. Yeah.
1:15:12>> And I'm sure that insulin video for
1:15:14example,
1:15:15>> a lot of people were like, "Holy shit."
1:15:17But then people will just make a video
1:15:18and it sounds like everything else.
1:15:20>> Mhm. And if you can't have that trigger,
1:15:22it's like
1:15:22>> yeah, that's why the unique mechanism
1:15:24works in the content for one. But yeah,
1:15:27like I think it comes down to like
1:15:30having that effect on like obviously the
1:15:32packaging matters like you mentioned
1:15:33Ryan Clog and so his videos were just
1:15:35that good to where the YouTube algorithm
1:15:36just had to push them. He had no choice.
1:15:38But not to say like he could have done
1:15:40made better decisions in the earlier
1:15:41stages and who knows the video might
1:15:43have got
1:15:44>> better. He's also a marketer.
1:15:46>> Yeah.
1:15:46>> So they weren't like that bad. I think
1:15:48they weren't like horrible, but like
1:15:50they were good enough because he knows
1:15:51who he's speaking to.
1:15:52>> It was intentionally unintentional.
1:15:54>> Yeah. Like he just naturally knows who
1:15:55he's speaking to cuz he's been to
1:15:56masterminds all the time and everything.
1:15:58So he just has an idea of like, okay, I
1:16:00know who wants to listen and like he
1:16:02would still put the right keywords. The
1:16:03screenshots that he would have on his
1:16:05videos were like him showing something
1:16:06you clearly recognize. Oh, it's an ORC
1:16:08chart. Like, oh, this is this or this is
1:16:10like, you know, a bunch of stuff with
1:16:11like then he would break it. So it's
1:16:13like you have to want you want to find
1:16:14out what the rest of the Myro board
1:16:15says. Yeah.
1:16:16>> So, I think it wasn't as like random as
1:16:19it makes it seem.
1:16:20>> Yeah. And a lot of these people who do
1:16:21the raw videos, like it is very
1:16:22intentional and strategic. Like we did
1:16:24the speedrunning one for Glen Coco and
1:16:26that like looks raw and not planned at
1:16:28all, but it was actually meticulously
1:16:30planned, right? And that video did like
1:16:32300k views and made hundreds of
1:16:33thousands of dollars. So like the like
1:16:36you've you just got to understand your
1:16:38market, you know? You really got to
1:16:39understand them deeply.
1:16:40>> And so like say right now you got the
1:16:42click.
1:16:43>> Yeah.
1:16:43>> Right. person's on this, they click.
1:16:46What do you do in the first 30 seconds?
1:16:49>> Yes. Okay, cool.
1:16:50>> To make sure that you convert that click
1:16:53and like like you want to have banger
1:16:55retention.
1:16:56>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:16:56>> What do you do those first 30 seconds?
1:16:58>> Okay. Well, first of all, retention.
1:17:00>> I'll get into that.
1:17:01like the cuz the job of the hook the
1:17:05like the job as soon as you've got the
1:17:07click if you've got the click it means
1:17:09you've set an expectation in the title
1:17:12and the thumbnail that is desirable
1:17:13enough to where they've gave you a
1:17:15chance and the first thing that they are
1:17:19thinking after clicking on that is
1:17:21should I continue spending my attention
1:17:23here and there are multiple questions
1:17:25underneath that there is is this video
1:17:28really about and going to do what it say
1:17:30it's going to do like is it really about
1:17:31what it says and is it really going to
1:17:33do what it says? Why is this person even
1:17:36qualified to be the person to teach me
1:17:39on this thing? If they if they believe
1:17:41the first question, that's the second
1:17:42question they're asking. Then it is
1:17:44okay. like I, you know, I know the video
1:17:46is about this thing and I believe that
1:17:49this person can truly fulfill on this
1:17:51and give me the value that I need, but I
1:17:53just still don't quite see how I'm going
1:17:56to be able to get there and how he's
1:17:57going to take me through this massive
1:17:58transformation that I've struggled with
1:18:00in this one video. And if you solve that
1:18:02question as well, the next thing is, is
1:18:05this even for me? Like, they could be
1:18:06thinking that throughout the hoop cuz
1:18:07like, is this specifically for me? I
1:18:09know that I resonated with the claim,
1:18:11but like this could be for this person
1:18:12and this person and like I don't know if
1:18:13the advice is going to be tailored to
1:18:15me. Promise, proof, plan, persona. Four
1:18:21Ps. That's the framework that I use for
1:18:24all hooks. Promise solves the first
1:18:26question of okay, is this video really
1:18:28going to deliver on what it says it's
1:18:29going to deliver? you are giving you are
1:18:30basically reaffirming the promise in a
1:18:32way that is not the exact same as what
1:18:33the title and thumbnail communicated but
1:18:36in a way that gives them the confidence
1:18:38of like okay I did click on the right
1:18:39video and like he's given me a bit more
1:18:41of that confidence to answer the next
1:18:43question of why is this person qualified
1:18:44that's where proof comes in you've got
1:18:46to give the strongest amount of social
1:18:48proof and experience and establish your
1:18:49credibility relative to the expectation
1:18:53that you set whatever the video is about
1:18:54and whatever expectation you set you
1:18:55need to make sure you've got really
1:18:56strong social proof that really
1:18:58convinces them of Oh, this is the
1:19:00[ __ ] guy. This is the person that I
1:19:01want to listen to. Then when you've done
1:19:03that, then once you've done that plan,
1:19:06so plan is basically giving clarity
1:19:09behind the road map of how you're going
1:19:10to deliver on the promise. So for
1:19:11example, if you're doing like a full
1:19:13Facebook ads course of teaching somebody
1:19:15they need to know about Facebook ads and
1:19:17you just say, "Yeah, I'm going to teach
1:19:18you everything you need to know about
1:19:19Facebook ads." Okay, but how are you
1:19:20going to do that? Well, I'm going to
1:19:21tell you how the Facebook ad algorithm
1:19:23works. I'm going to show you how the
1:19:24Facebook ads manager works and how to
1:19:26navigate around it. I'm going to show
1:19:27you how to come up with winning ad
1:19:28creatives using the Facebook ad library.
1:19:30I'm going to show you how to set up your
1:19:31campaign structure. I'm going to show
1:19:32you this that D. I'm going to show you
1:19:34how to analyze the ads. If you lay out
1:19:36that bullet point of d like it's like
1:19:39okay like I really this guy's really
1:19:40thought through this. Like he's
1:19:41literally covering everything. I don't
1:19:42even have a single objection in my mind.
1:19:44Like there's not another question that I
1:19:46have around oh but what about this
1:19:47thing? He's covering everything, right?
1:19:49And then persona is just confirming and
1:19:52giving the reassurance like this really
1:19:53is for you. So, for example, for
1:19:55Facebook ads, another like just giving
1:19:56that as an example again, it could be
1:19:58for e-commerce brands, it could be for
1:20:01general businesses, it could be for
1:20:02local businesses, it could be for the
1:20:03Facebook ads agencies themselves. If
1:20:05you're targeting e-commerce brands, you
1:20:07want to make sure it's clear it's for
1:20:08the e-commerce brands. But what you also
1:20:10don't want to do is neglect the other
1:20:12audiences if it's truly relevant for
1:20:13them. Because if you're like limiting
1:20:15the total addressable market of the
1:20:16video for no reason, then the video is
1:20:18just not going to do as well as it
1:20:19could. But if you don't make it clear
1:20:21that it is truly for the e-commerce
1:20:23brand the core target market then you
1:20:25might lose resonance with the e-commerce
1:20:27brands and they might click off. So this
1:20:28is where you can say align directly like
1:20:31whether you're an e-commerce brand
1:20:32looking to scale to 8 n 10 figures or
1:20:36you're just a local business looking to
1:20:38get Facebook ads running and start
1:20:40getting a high return on ad spend or if
1:20:42you manage multiple businesses running
1:20:44Facebook ads for them or if you're just
1:20:46somebody who wants to learn Facebook ads
1:20:48in general to grow your business. this
1:20:49video is for you. You've called out the
1:20:51core target market so they know it's for
1:20:53them, but you've also made it clear to
1:20:54the other markets, the TAM, that it is
1:20:57for them, too. So, now they have the
1:20:59reassurance that this video is truly for
1:21:01them. And that's how you solve all four
1:21:04objections essentially is what they are
1:21:06is objections to clicking off the video.
1:21:09You solved that is literally all of the
1:21:12possible uncertainties that they have in
1:21:14their mind. And if you clarify all of
1:21:15them properly, they're like, "Okay, let
1:21:18me give this guy a shot. let me hear
1:21:19what he has to say. And that's where you
1:21:20get into the next video. I will say
1:21:22though, beyond that hook, cuz that's the
1:21:24hook framework, but there's one really
1:21:27important stage right after the hook
1:21:28that I hear nobody talking about. And
1:21:32the way that I kind of recognize this as
1:21:34an important part of the video is
1:21:35actually through running my own
1:21:37business. So,
1:21:40the hook is essentially a sales call.
1:21:42Like, you're essentially selling them on
1:21:44watching the video.
1:21:45>> The next part is onboarding. And
1:21:47everybody in business talks about how
1:21:49how important onboarding is. It's
1:21:51literally the most important part of the
1:21:52entire relationship. Your goal in
1:21:54onboarding is to give them time to value
1:21:56as fast as possible so they don't get
1:21:58buyers remorse.
1:22:00But nobody thinks or I've never heard
1:22:01anybody talk about YouTube in that way
1:22:03where the same thing happens. Your goal
1:22:05is to remove any potential like any
1:22:08potential possibility of buyers remorse
1:22:10but buying instead of money as the
1:22:12currency, attention is the currency. And
1:22:14so the way that you do this is through
1:22:16shortening and maximizing time to value.
1:22:19So straight after the hook, the next
1:22:21thing they're thinking is, "Okay, let me
1:22:22give this guy a shot. Let me hear what
1:22:23he has to say." If you straight away,
1:22:24bam, give them a massive aha moment
1:22:27within the next 30 seconds, it's like,
1:22:29"Whoa, like this guy actually really
1:22:31knows this [ __ ] cuz he's actually just
1:22:32applied it." The same way if somebody
1:22:33comes on to my service and like within
1:22:34the first week, their first YouTube
1:22:36video is popping off, it's like, "Okay,
1:22:37like I believe this guy. I was still a
1:22:39little bit uncertain after I paid this
1:22:40much, which I value so much my money,
1:22:43but attention is actually an even more
1:22:44valued currency. So like, you know,
1:22:46people really are like looking for that
1:22:48opportunity to click off and if you give
1:22:49them really fast time to value, like
1:22:52you've got them. And then like all this
1:22:53[ __ ] about open loops and storytelling
1:22:56structures and all this BS, it doesn't
1:22:58matter. People over complicate that
1:23:00[ __ ] It's like focus on the hook
1:23:02structure that I just said to remove all
1:23:04those objections. focus on shortening
1:23:07and minimizing the time to time to value
1:23:10and maximizing the value achieved in
1:23:13that time to value and then from there
1:23:16continuing to keep up that same pace and
1:23:18that same level of value throughout the
1:23:20video so the experience is very good and
1:23:22also leaving them off very strong as
1:23:24well so after they finish the video
1:23:25they're like holy [ __ ] [ __ ] like that
1:23:27was a banger video and that's where you
1:23:29create the reaction of oh my god this
1:23:31video was so good like subscribe nobody
1:23:34even likes and sub like people for
1:23:36somebody to like and subscribe is a
1:23:38massive deal and leave a comment. Think
1:23:39about like how much satisfaction you
1:23:41have to drive for that to happen at
1:23:42scale. And so that's why it's such a big
1:23:44signal. And so if you're having that
1:23:46effect on viewers to where they're doing
1:23:48all three of those things and at a
1:23:50consistently high rate across multiple
1:23:52different viewers like that's how you
1:23:54create that effect and that's how as we
1:23:56spoke about that results in that sort of
1:23:58you know winning performance.
1:23:59>> Okay. Okay. So like once you you have
1:24:00the hook, you kind of have the post hook
1:24:03like onboarding to the video. How do you
1:24:05keep them fulfilled throughout the whole
1:24:08like video even though most of the work
1:24:09is done there?
1:24:11>> Yeah, I think it's as I say people over
1:24:13complicate these YouTube tactics in the
1:24:16execution such as open loops, payoffs,
1:24:21storytelling structures, so on and so
1:24:24forth. Realistically, the only thing
1:24:26that matters is understanding the
1:24:29expectation that you've set with the
1:24:30viewer and the promise that you've made
1:24:31that's got them to click in the first
1:24:32place. Under that overarching
1:24:35expectation, what are the micro
1:24:38expectations of all the different things
1:24:41that they could be coming into this
1:24:42video wanting? Right? So, different
1:24:44viewers at different stages are valuing
1:24:46different things. And you've got to be
1:24:48aware of the whole map of the different
1:24:51things that you need to cover in order
1:24:52to satisfy everybody's expectations or
1:24:55at least tend to that as much to 100% as
1:24:58possible. If you understand that and you
1:25:00just fulfill on that to a way in which
1:25:03is you know communicated very well and
1:25:05clearly you are using editing as a tool
1:25:09to educate the viewer better not to
1:25:13retain the viewer and you're just making
1:25:15the decisions within the video that
1:25:18ultimately lead to you meeting and
1:25:20exceeding that expectation that was set
1:25:22as much as possible in every single
1:25:25aspect of the video. Like that's all you
1:25:27need. Like if you like my video, the
1:25:28most valuable YouTube training you'll
1:25:29ever watch, it worked well cuz it was
1:25:31the most valuable YouTube training
1:25:32you'll ever watch. And in every aspect
1:25:34of what I covered, it was like nothing
1:25:37anybody had ever heard of, right? And
1:25:39so, but that video, as I said, 11%
1:25:42retention, no editing, but it was super
1:25:45clear the value that I was giving. And
1:25:47this this goes across many many many
1:25:49videos. Course videos, 4% retention, 5%
1:25:52retention. But the it just there's no
1:25:54way it doesn't meet the expectation of
1:25:55the viewer if they click and they watch
1:25:56that video.
1:25:57>> So what do you do if like you have a
1:25:59myro board breakdown or like a challenge
1:26:02video or like a vlog?
1:26:05>> How the hell you make like onboard
1:26:07people into a vlog? Like
1:26:09>> yeah,
1:26:09>> just a real like like how do you
1:26:11differentiate between the formats of the
1:26:12videos?
1:26:13>> Yeah. So the thing is so obviously what
1:26:16you do in an educational video and a
1:26:17vlog is entirely different because what
1:26:18they value is different. somebody who
1:26:20clicks on a vlog,
1:26:22be real with yourself and understanding
1:26:24your audience and what do they expect
1:26:26from that vlog. Like if you're doing a
1:26:29lob style vlog with all this different
1:26:31flashy stuff and like what do they want
1:26:33from that? What sort of feeling do they
1:26:35actually want created in themselves?
1:26:37Like they probably want some inspiration
1:26:39and motivation. They probably want to
1:26:41see what the life looks like. They
1:26:42probably want to see supercars and girls
1:26:45in bikinis. But they like but you got to
1:26:47understand what they want cuz you also
1:26:49got to but it's true cuz like if
1:26:51[laughter]
1:26:52but it's true cuz you got to understand
1:26:53what that audience truly wants and you
1:26:55got to deliver on that. But also it's
1:26:57like it's the opposite. Maybe maybe if
1:26:59you analyze the market well enough, you
1:27:02understand that people are sick and
1:27:03tired of that stuff or at least your
1:27:04target audience is. And what they want
1:27:06is somebody who's super real and
1:27:08contrarian and anti-guru who just cuts
1:27:10through the noise and is like
1:27:12irrefutably themselves and such a breath
1:27:15of fresh air compared to those people.
1:27:17It's like um I think one thing Daniel
1:27:20Dylan did really well is he turned like
1:27:22vlogging into documenting,
1:27:24>> but he put lessons in it so people would
1:27:26feel like they're not brain rotting
1:27:28watching a vlog.
1:27:28>> Yeah. To make excuse to themselves.
1:27:30>> It's like this is productive. Yes.
1:27:32>> But it's really entertainment,
1:27:34>> right? Like when you look into it,
1:27:35there's like no education. Maybe like
1:27:37some stuff is like, "Oh, how to onboard
1:27:38an employee, but I just watch onboarding
1:27:40employee video."
1:27:41>> Yeah.
1:27:41>> Um but it's like productive viewer
1:27:44viewership of vlogging. So it's like
1:27:46even like Dom Yakavone I mean maybe
1:27:48that's different because he dives more
1:27:49deeper into business but he has business
1:27:51videos but his vlog are like it's you
1:27:54watch a vlog but you're being productive
1:27:56because you watch like an entrepreneur
1:27:58living and so it's like you it's like an
1:27:59example like it's like a documentary but
1:28:01like it's not
1:28:02>> it's like a really interesting thing
1:28:04people that watch down there and like
1:28:05they're convinced like it's productive.
1:28:06It's like 300,000 people are convinced
1:28:09it's productive vlog watching.
1:28:11>> Yeah.
1:28:11>> But if you're like oh I watched this
1:28:12guy's vlog it's oh now he's brain
1:28:13robbed.
1:28:14>> Yeah. You know, but it's like it's kind
1:28:16of doing the same thing for like a
1:28:17different persona.
1:28:18>> Yes.
1:28:18>> So, it's like an entrepreneur's brain
1:28:20raw is not the same as like a guy who
1:28:23just wants to become rich is brain raw.
1:28:24>> Yeah.
1:28:25>> Like like
1:28:26>> Yeah. Is that valid?
1:28:28>> No, it's 100%. Like cuz
1:28:29>> at the end of the day, humans are
1:28:31humans. Like you you like the top
1:28:33entrepreneurs in the world sit on their
1:28:35toilet scrolling Instagram reels, you
1:28:37know? It's like everyone is human. And
1:28:40so so you've just got to play into that.
1:28:42You got to understand like it's true
1:28:43though. You got like people will look at
1:28:44that and be like, "Oh, no, that's
1:28:45actually productive."
1:28:46>> Yeah.
1:28:47>> You know, it's like, "Oh, that vlog is
1:28:48productive vlog." Like watching. But
1:28:49it's like,
1:28:51>> is it or just fulfilling like your
1:28:53dopamine hits needed? Cuz it makes you
1:28:55feel smart. It's like, oh, like if I
1:28:57watch him, I could do more and I could d
1:28:59and I could develop. But like then most
1:29:02people just end up in the same place as
1:29:03like the little guy who wants to become
1:29:04rich that makes like $10 a month.
1:29:06>> Yeah.
1:29:07>> It's like
1:29:08>> in each of their life stages, they
1:29:10change the same thing.
1:29:11>> Yeah. I would argue that he has a higher
1:29:13chance of making a big jump watching the
1:29:16guys that are super rich. Is he super
1:29:17broke?
1:29:18>> Uhhuh.
1:29:18>> But the other guy already has the
1:29:20answers, but it's like all like, should
1:29:22I be waking up at 5 a.m.?
1:29:24>> Yes.
1:29:24>> You know, like or should I be like
1:29:26[snorts] using my red light and then
1:29:27putting my camera in this way?
1:29:29>> Yeah.
1:29:29>> Um, but it's interesting cuz I think I
1:29:31think like Daniel still brought a new
1:29:32perspective. I think people that were
1:29:34watching were also like
1:29:35>> trying to understand how he films
1:29:38>> and then he introduced like a whole like
1:29:39new like filming concept. was like I
1:29:41find it interesting that they both do
1:29:43vlogs but they both served people in
1:29:46such a different way cuz the kid is not
1:29:47going to think about oh he's vlogging
1:29:49this way I'm going to vlog like him but
1:29:50all the entrepreneur creators that are
1:29:52watching are actually doing that in that
1:29:54video like they're watching him but
1:29:55really they're watching how he's doing
1:29:56things it's like recreate it. So like
1:29:58two
1:29:59>> it's it's like oh they already know they
1:30:01can get rich. They're not going to watch
1:30:02him because they can get rich.
1:30:03>> So it's like but they watch that guy cuz
1:30:06they're not really sure and they want to
1:30:07know what that life could look like.
1:30:08Basically, we know what that life looks
1:30:10like. It's just like,
1:30:11>> yeah, I don't know. It's like,
1:30:12>> no, cuz yeah, he understands the
1:30:14different types of viewers that he's
1:30:15attracting and he's satisfying both of
1:30:16them. Like, he's satisfying that more
1:30:19entrepreneurial founder brand desired
1:30:22type audience who want to build their
1:30:23own brand because
1:30:25>> they're not even listening to the things
1:30:26he's saying. They're like, but they're
1:30:27probably like really studying the video
1:30:30of like, how is he doing this? Like, how
1:30:32is he doing these different angles and
1:30:33creating this aesthetic? and that
1:30:35results in high viewer satisfaction from
1:30:37like a watchtime point of view, etc. And
1:30:39the other side of the coin, they're not
1:30:41studying that stuff. They're just like
1:30:43watching it like, "Wow, like this is so
1:30:45cool and I'm getting so much value, so
1:30:46I'm being productive, right?"
1:30:48>> So yeah, it's like there's also like
1:30:50this day in the life of a software
1:30:51engineer. like this is one of the
1:30:53biggest day in the life repeatable
1:30:55videos like day in the life of a job
1:30:57that is like super interesting to the
1:30:59most like wide TAM audience because it's
1:31:01like they're like oh like I wonder what
1:31:03it would be like to be a software
1:31:04engineer you know so you've got the
1:31:05software engineer audience of like who
1:31:06are genuinely curious of what is it
1:31:08going to be like when they step into
1:31:09this role and is this the right role for
1:31:10them and then you've just got the people
1:31:12who are like wow like I really dream
1:31:14about like having you know and
1:31:16>> how do you hijack both
1:31:18>> what in terms like how would I
1:31:20>> yeah like how do you cuz I If say you're
1:31:22like day in life of building a startup
1:31:25>> a lot of people maybe they're h
1:31:27>> well it's assessing the market and it's
1:31:29this is again like you have to go to
1:31:32first principles and that is the
1:31:33underlying thing because this is where
1:31:35breakthroughs come from the first
1:31:37principles thinking comes from Elon Musk
1:31:38where he's like everybody there was this
1:31:40predisposed way of this is how you build
1:31:42a rocket a rocket can't land itself and
1:31:44he just scrapped all of that and
1:31:45discarded that and he was like well no
1:31:48like let me actually break this down Why
1:31:51would a rocket not be able to land
1:31:52itself? And he figured out that rockets
1:31:54could absolutely land themselves. Just
1:31:56nobody actually questioned this
1:31:57predisposed thought that everybody had.
1:32:01What in a market on YouTube is everybody
1:32:03ends up copying each other because they
1:32:04have confirmation bias of, oh, this
1:32:06thing's working, let me do the same
1:32:07thing. But not many people go back to
1:32:10first principles and question, well,
1:32:12like, is this really the best thing to
1:32:14do? Because what if in the software
1:32:17engineer market I this video probably
1:32:18exists but it we we'll play the example
1:32:20of everybody's making these day in the
1:32:22life aesthetic software engineer videos.
1:32:25Have we questioned if that target market
1:32:29wants a realistic day in the life of a
1:32:31software engineer? One that's like all
1:32:33these vlogs that that really hits on the
1:32:35nerve like all these vlogs that you're
1:32:36probably seeing and probably watching
1:32:37and questioning. Is this really what
1:32:40it's like to be a software engineer?
1:32:41This aesthetic life, you know, is this
1:32:43really true? I'm going to be addressing
1:32:45that in this video. This is actually
1:32:46what it really is like to to to be a,
1:32:48you know, to be a software engineer, you
1:32:50know, because this is where you find the
1:32:51gaps in the market. If you understand
1:32:53your target market, you have to face
1:32:54principles.
1:32:55>> Would you do a video even like reviewing
1:32:57them
1:32:58>> and like spotting like, oh, this is
1:33:00actually not true. Like here's what my
1:33:01Yeah. Okay.
1:33:02>> You're thinking what is the viewer
1:33:04thinking about this market right now?
1:33:06It's like everybody's doing these day in
1:33:08the life you know software engineer
1:33:09videos
1:33:10>> and what do they potentially want that
1:33:12is not being given to them you know it's
1:33:14for examp one of my first clients this
1:33:16was a small win but it's just a good
1:33:17example Levy like this was literally my
1:33:20first client so the services evolved
1:33:21massively
1:33:22>> money Twitter
1:33:23>> yeah and so like the video that we did
1:33:25for him which wasn't a big win at all
1:33:26this was back in back in the day so not
1:33:28not a big but it was a big success for
1:33:30him at the time and at the stage in the
1:33:31market this was when AI agencies really
1:33:33started to pop off his business
1:33:35opportunity was a lead generation
1:33:36agency. Nobody had heard of a lead
1:33:37generation agency. Everybody was making
1:33:39videos around how to start an AI agency,
1:33:41blah blah blah blah blah. Nobody I was
1:33:43like looking that and I was like
1:33:44everybody's copying each other making
1:33:45these good videos. I was like do people
1:33:47not feel like skeptical of this business
1:33:48model? Like are people not like
1:33:50everybody saying they want to start this
1:33:51but is nobody like got that uncertainty
1:33:53in the back of their mind of is this
1:33:55really the best business to start? And
1:33:56that's where I did the video. Don't
1:33:57start an AI AAI automation agency. Start
1:34:00an LGA instead. LGA being like what?
1:34:02>> I remember that thumbnail like
1:34:04yesterday. Yeah, that was like that was
1:34:06a OG like
1:34:07>> he had a good was it like a couple
1:34:09months of a run?
1:34:10>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:34:11>> Yeah. That LGA was like
1:34:13>> Yeah.
1:34:13>> Yeah.
1:34:13>> And that video like it did really well.
1:34:15um despite like the views only was like
1:34:1750k, but for him in his niche that like
1:34:20made hundreds of thousands of dollars
1:34:21and it was a breakthrough video for his
1:34:22business and but it it was questioning
1:34:26what people believed was the right thing
1:34:28to do
1:34:29>> and having that level of intelligence
1:34:31and understanding of the market to be
1:34:33like actually I think there's a gap here
1:34:35and then you can combine the data side
1:34:37of it and the visibility to know the
1:34:38right way to to fill that gap because
1:34:41that's where like the packaging comes in
1:34:42of like don't start this thing do this
1:34:44instead because that was the formula
1:34:45that worked on YouTube. That's why we
1:34:46use that packaging. I can go super deep
1:34:48there, but like that's what most people
1:34:51don't do that level of thought. And so
1:34:52if you're putting that level of thought
1:34:53into every decision that you make along
1:34:55the YouTube process, that's how you win,
1:34:57you know? Um, so yeah, like question,
1:35:01you should be questioning what's
1:35:02happening in your market and whether
1:35:03it's an underserved part.
1:35:04>> Is that why you also question outliers
1:35:06so much?
1:35:08>> Yeah, because nobody else does. Like
1:35:10everybody just goes to these tools and
1:35:12they pick an outlier that's performed
1:35:14really well and they're like, "Let me
1:35:15just yink and twist it to the niche."
1:35:16But like that's the bar. The bar is so
1:35:18low because nobody understands the stuff
1:35:22that I'm talking about and nobody thinks
1:35:24about that. And so if you can do that in
1:35:26your niche, you're going to run
1:35:26everybody over because like everybody
1:35:29else is at most doing adjacent niche
1:35:33ideation and taking these thumbnail
1:35:35tactics like three element rule.
1:35:38>> This is interesting.
1:35:39It's pretty like brain like energy
1:35:43generating
1:35:44like [laughter] it like induces a lot of
1:35:47curiosity at least in me.
1:35:48>> Yeah.
1:35:49>> Um I guess the natural next thing is
1:35:51like scripting.
1:35:53>> Mhm.
1:35:54>> I'm I'm always like kind of curious like
1:35:57um some agencies they'll like full
1:35:59script. Do Do you just full script for
1:36:02everyone or do you like semi-cript for
1:36:05some people? Do you like just give
1:36:07ideas? Do you use like a teleprompter
1:36:09with this? Like
1:36:11>> yeah,
1:36:11>> how do you manage the scripting aspect
1:36:13and how important is it for you?
1:36:15>> Depends on the creator and the client
1:36:16and whatever is best for them. Like my
1:36:18goal with what I do is to remove every
1:36:20point of failure from the YouTube
1:36:22process. So like what strategy gives you
1:36:26is and like that that pre-work is it
1:36:29lines up the series of decisions that
1:36:31you're going to make. So it lines up
1:36:33we're going to use this packaging, this
1:36:34structure, so on and so forth. And so
1:36:36then it's just about making sure that
1:36:40once you've got the decisions that
1:36:41you're going to make lined up that you
1:36:42feel 100% confident, remove every point
1:36:45of failure and like make sure the videos
1:36:48succeeds to the highest likelihood. It's
1:36:50about executing on that correctly. And
1:36:51obviously a pivotal piece of that is the
1:36:53actual video itself. So certain clients
1:36:56and certain channels that we run, they
1:36:59need more support where it's a full
1:37:00script because they're just somebody who
1:37:03doesn't really do well with riffing and
1:37:06therefore they could miss a lot of the
1:37:08value and you know they just wouldn't do
1:37:10well.
1:37:10>> So how do you make sure it does well as
1:37:12like a teleprompter? Like do you
1:37:14>> Yeah. So a teleprompter that's what they
1:37:15use to read the script. But the more
1:37:16important piece is making sure that we
1:37:18collect all the information from them on
1:37:21what value are they going to give in the
1:37:23video. So we h we basically built like a
1:37:26AI uh like a sort of like trained AI
1:37:29model that
1:37:31is like an interviewer like it's like a
1:37:33really like it it's trained off of like
1:37:35over a hundred interviews that I've done
1:37:37with clients and it basically interviews
1:37:40the clients back and forth to probe them
1:37:42to extract all the information that we
1:37:43need for a video because we want to make
1:37:45sure the script's fully 100% in their
1:37:46voice and fully 100% the value that you
1:37:48get because most people just generate AI
1:37:50swap scripts from pulling information
1:37:51from all the YouTube videos but why
1:37:53would somebody listen to you versus just
1:37:54like asking AI the question. So it's
1:37:56that nuanced experience and that IP that
1:37:58we want to have come through in the
1:38:00script and that's the way that we
1:38:01extract that. So that's the most
1:38:03important part of the script is actually
1:38:04getting that information from the client
1:38:06and from the creator of like their IP,
1:38:09their brain, their experiences, case
1:38:11studies and like examples, all these
1:38:13sort of things. And so then it's it
1:38:15becomes very easy to write a script from
1:38:16from that point because it's just
1:38:18synthesizing all of that information and
1:38:20articulating it in the clearest way and
1:38:22kind of going back and forth to with AI
1:38:25usually to figure out what is the
1:38:27clearest way that I can articulate this
1:38:28lesson. What is the aha moment that I
1:38:31can give here that like really hits home
1:38:34with this specific view? Like it really
1:38:36clicks in their brain. So, it's using AI
1:38:38as a tool, as a sparring partner to not
1:38:41do the thinking for you, but to like
1:38:43challenge your thinking and go back and
1:38:45forth with um it's a very useful tool,
1:38:47but you shouldn't lean on it to write
1:38:49the script. You should like build the
1:38:51script with it as like a sparring
1:38:53partner, as I say. But then, yes,
1:38:55teleprompter to actually read from the
1:38:56script. But a lot of people do well with
1:38:58outlines. It just depends on the person.
1:39:00Some people, they just need the vision
1:39:01of the video. And if you give them a
1:39:03clear enough vision of like this is what
1:39:04we're trying to do. these are the this
1:39:06is the expectation the viewer has and
1:39:08therefore these are all of the things
1:39:10that you need to takeick off to the
1:39:11highest degree to meet that expectation
1:39:14you know some people can just handle the
1:39:15rest from there and don't need much
1:39:16support.
1:39:17>> What about editing? Like how important
1:39:21to you is it actually or does it come
1:39:24down to like you said before of like
1:39:26depends on your market and the viewer.
1:39:29>> Yeah. But then how do you know like you
1:39:32know for example like we do the pod we
1:39:34edit a decent amount in the beginning
1:39:36but then now we're trying to add more
1:39:37edits but even though the some of the
1:39:39viewers like smarter but then B2B do you
1:39:42just not have to edit cuz there's a guy
1:39:45he does like vlogs
1:39:46>> where he like travels and documents him
1:39:48like investing in companies.
1:39:49>> Yeah.
1:39:49>> Um black dude from SX.
1:39:51>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:39:52>> And then he like does vlogs that are
1:39:54edited but he also it's like less like
1:39:57way way less than typical. So, how do
1:39:59you know? Like,
1:40:00>> yeah, I think there's a couple things
1:40:02with this. So, first of all, it's as I
1:40:04say, like you have to understand your
1:40:05audience and what they ultimately want
1:40:08out of the video because if the viewer
1:40:11purely values the education, then it's
1:40:14just optimizing the viewer experience
1:40:16for education, both in the way you cut
1:40:18the video and then also do visuals, etc.
1:40:22So, for example, if they care about
1:40:24their education, you want to cut out any
1:40:26points where you give a fluffy
1:40:28explanation that could potentially
1:40:30confuse the viewer. But also, for points
1:40:34where you give value that is hard for
1:40:36the viewer to really grasp, you want to
1:40:39like where points where you give value
1:40:41where the the points where you give
1:40:43value where it's hard for the viewer to
1:40:45really grasp, you want to visualize that
1:40:48through simple diagrams. I mean why do
1:40:51teachers in school use a presentation
1:40:54with diagrams on in order to educate
1:40:57because some things just need to be
1:40:59visualized. Some people use building
1:41:00blocks and stuff like that to visualize.
1:41:02So whatever decisions that you can make
1:41:04in the editing process that achieve the
1:41:07outcome that you want depending on your
1:41:09viewer. So the outcome depends on the
1:41:11viewer because for some that is provide
1:41:13the best educational experience around
1:41:15this given topic and d some it's like
1:41:18entertain them as much as possible make
1:41:20them feel inspired as much as possible
1:41:22et so it's two different objectives
1:41:24which influence the editing style right
1:41:26so then that's why in vlogs you know
1:41:28you're going to have a lot more music
1:41:30when you're giving something
1:41:31inspirational because music brings out
1:41:34emotion in people the same way that
1:41:35words do so like you're going to make
1:41:37the decisions that influence
1:41:40you know, you're going to make the
1:41:40decisions that are going to ultimately
1:41:41lead you closer towards the objective of
1:41:43that video. Whereas with a more
1:41:45sophisticated audience if it's viewing
1:41:48it's if it's just pure value, you're
1:41:50just going to make decisions aligned
1:41:51with that. You're not going to have
1:41:52music cuz it's going to distract from
1:41:54the experience unless music is for some
1:41:57what reason like it needs to be in the
1:41:58video. And this is why like you know
1:42:01with a more sophisticated audience
1:42:03mirror boards work so well and they
1:42:06don't need editing is because people are
1:42:08just there for the value and that is a
1:42:10way for them to visualize value very
1:42:12well. But that's why that format works
1:42:14really. It's like a nice visual way to
1:42:16yes stay engaged and feel positive about
1:42:20the viewing experience but also it makes
1:42:22the education part really easy because
1:42:24they can visualize whatever they need.
1:42:26And I guess like following through with
1:42:27the editing, how much does a setup
1:42:29actually matter for you? Like the
1:42:30physical visual setup of the video, how
1:42:32it's filmed?
1:42:33>> I think it's just calling a spade a
1:42:35spade and understanding that
1:42:38certain viewers are going to make an
1:42:40impression about you based on your
1:42:43setup. And also the other side of it
1:42:46that most people don't really care that
1:42:48much. So I think it is like I think it
1:42:50would be a lie for and I think it is a
1:42:53lie when people say oh like setup
1:42:55doesn't matter you can use your iPhone
1:42:57like you can but sometimes it's going to
1:43:00be better to have a professional setup
1:43:02where you have a background with depth
1:43:04>> that look like you're in a hostage
1:43:06>> room the digestibility
1:43:09>> too
1:43:10>> like what
1:43:10>> like how digestible the video is for
1:43:12that person
1:43:13>> like the more you can make it vis
1:43:15visually appealing to watch
1:43:17>> the want to watch. It's like if
1:43:18someone's used to watching Netflix every
1:43:20day, that's why like a lot of vlogs that
1:43:23are high quality work because it's like
1:43:25closer to what they're used to watching
1:43:26a lot of or like quality of normal
1:43:29content now is just going up at least
1:43:30from my perspective. But it's like
1:43:32>> a lot of people in business are B like
1:43:34B2B um they read a lot of books. Yeah.
1:43:37>> So they're used to boring content.
1:43:38>> Yeah.
1:43:39>> Right. Or like they do a lot of SOPs or
1:43:41like a lot of documenting or there a lot
1:43:43of boring calls. It's like boring for
1:43:45them is what they're used to.
1:43:47>> Yeah. At least that's how like I would
1:43:49perceive it, you know? It's like
1:43:51>> um
1:43:51>> I would agree. I think it's like
1:43:54humans are humans and one thing that
1:43:57humans do is make a judgment based on
1:43:58first impressions. And so, as I say, you
1:44:01have to call a spade a spade where like
1:44:02people in real life make a judgment on
1:44:06someone based on first impression. Now,
1:44:07is that first impression concrete
1:44:10always? No. Sometimes you might have a
1:44:12bad first impression of someone just
1:44:14because of how they dress or the way
1:44:16they come across in that first
1:44:17conversation, but as you begin to know
1:44:19them, you realize, oh, like this
1:44:20person's actually sick. Like I love this
1:44:22person. Or some people, depending on the
1:44:25person, make that first impression and
1:44:27it's enough for them to leave the room
1:44:28and not talk to that person again. The
1:44:30same thing happens with content where
1:44:32it's like if the impression made isn't
1:44:35good, some people leave. Some people
1:44:38give enough of a chance to where they
1:44:40continue listening to you and it doesn't
1:44:41matter for them because then you give
1:44:42them so much value and they stick
1:44:43around. And that's why raw videos don't
1:44:45always matter even if it does look like
1:44:47you're doing it from your bedroom
1:44:48because they give you a chance beyond
1:44:50that first impression and then they're
1:44:51like, "Oh my god, this guy's so good and
1:44:52he doesn't even care that he's in a
1:44:53bedroom. He's just dropping sauce."
1:44:55>> Yeah.
1:44:55>> But so you just kind of have to
1:44:57understand that fact and play with that
1:45:00basically. I guess when a video doesn't
1:45:01do as well for you or like you can call
1:45:03it like it bombs, how do you know
1:45:05whether the problem is the idea, the
1:45:07packaging or the actual whole like video
1:45:09like like is it like viewer
1:45:11satisfaction? Like how would you know?
1:45:12>> Yeah. So you got to it's the data side
1:45:16and then also just the logical side.
1:45:18Again with everything in YouTube, you've
1:45:19got to look at the evidence and then
1:45:21also combine it with your own
1:45:23intelligence. So you look at the video
1:45:26and you see it's underperforming and
1:45:29there could be multiple signals. So you
1:45:31could look at the clickthrough rate and
1:45:33maybe it is significantly lower than
1:45:35your average click-through rate which
1:45:37like there's no right there's no good or
1:45:38bad clickthrough rate because it's
1:45:40dependent on you could have a really
1:45:41high clickthrough rate if your video
1:45:42hasn't been pushed to a broad number of
1:45:45people. Um like you could have a high
1:45:47clickthrough rate if it's just been
1:45:48pushed to your returning viewers who are
1:45:50more likely to click on your video
1:45:51therefore in inflated clickthrough rate.
1:45:53Or you could have a lower clickthrough
1:45:54rate because your video has been pushed
1:45:55to the masses and it's highly successful
1:45:57and it's like 3% because you've been
1:45:59pushed to the masses. So this clicking a
1:46:01low percentage doesn't mean it's a bad
1:46:02thumbnail. Same with retention. There's
1:46:04no good or bad retention because of what
1:46:07we discussed. 6% retention videos have
1:46:09gotten hundreds of thousands of views,
1:46:10millions of views, and so on and so
1:46:12forth. So you can't look at those at
1:46:14face value, but you can look at them
1:46:17relative to if there is channel history,
1:46:20what you typically get. Like if you're
1:46:22seeing a 2% clickthrough rate when
1:46:23typically your videos are getting a
1:46:25higher clickthrough rate, then it might
1:46:26be something to look at. So you need to
1:46:28look at all of the data for what it is
1:46:31signal and information and a signal to
1:46:33dive deeper. So if it's locally through
1:46:36it and underperforming, then you're
1:46:38going to look at the thumbnail and
1:46:39logically think, okay, why might have
1:46:41this thumbnail not have worked so well
1:46:43with my audience or might it have been
1:46:45the title? Right? And you got to be able
1:46:47to look at that and with understanding
1:46:49your audience be able to make a
1:46:51hypothesis as to why might this
1:46:54particular aspect of packaging thumbnail
1:46:56or title or both have not worked with
1:46:59that audience and then you make a
1:47:01hypothesized solution of like okay I
1:47:03think this was the reason why it didn't
1:47:05and I think if we change this maybe that
1:47:07might make the difference and then you
1:47:08test for that right or if you look at
1:47:11the retention and and well mostly if you
1:47:13look at the retention graph if you look
1:47:14at the retention graph not really the
1:47:16retention percentage and you see, oh,
1:47:18like the hook was actually quite good,
1:47:20but then right after the hook, the
1:47:22gradient
1:47:24de well, it increased. The negative
1:47:26gradient increased at a quite a high
1:47:28level after the hook. Like it really
1:47:30sloped off. That's a sign of low time to
1:47:34value. Like low time to value isn't bad,
1:47:36right? It took too long to give them
1:47:38time to value or the value given in that
1:47:40time was too insignificant because
1:47:42they've watched past the hook. you sold
1:47:44them effectively and they gave it a
1:47:46little bit of a chance and they're like,
1:47:47"Nah, this video is just not really
1:47:49giving me what I want. This is dragon."
1:47:50And they click off. Or if there's like a
1:47:53noticeable dip, probably a call to
1:47:56action, look at the call to action. Did
1:47:58I give too much of a direct call to
1:47:59action or how did I give this call to
1:48:01action? What could I have done better
1:48:02about the call to action that I gave in
1:48:04order to still give the call to action
1:48:06but not have that drop off? And then you
1:48:08can obviously make the decision if you
1:48:10want on cutting out the call to action.
1:48:11you can make that decision and perhaps
1:48:13that would also be the difference,
1:48:15right? If it is that significant and
1:48:17sometimes it's death by a thousand cuts,
1:48:19sometimes it's the time to value plus
1:48:23the call to action plus this plus that
1:48:25plus something overarching, right? Which
1:48:27might be unfixable post, you know,
1:48:29upload. So, some of these things you
1:48:31might be able to adjust after the
1:48:32upload. Sometimes it's just going to be,
1:48:35okay, this video I should have done
1:48:37this, I can't really change anything
1:48:39now. The only thing I can do is use this
1:48:40as feedback to improve the actions that
1:48:42I take next time and continue through
1:48:44that feedback loop.
1:48:44>> And how how often should you be posting?
1:48:47Like four times a month. How do you
1:48:50decide like what's like the main target
1:48:52usually and why?
1:48:53>> Yeah. So YouTube first and foremost is
1:48:55100% a quality game, not a quantity
1:48:57game. So like with understanding to win
1:49:00a take all platform,
1:49:02YouTube is going to push all the
1:49:04attention to the best video providing
1:49:06that it's packaged well, so on and so
1:49:07forth. So your goal should always be to
1:49:09make the best videos cuz that's how you
1:49:10wipe an entire market clean and you just
1:49:12take all the demand. It's how my video
1:49:13became the biggest video in the YouTube
1:49:14growth niche. So that that is the first
1:49:17priority first and foremost. People want
1:49:19to keep up the frequency because they
1:49:22think or it makes them feel in their
1:49:23mind it makes success feel more
1:49:25predictable because if you just do
1:49:28enough posts then you know eventually
1:49:30you're going to succeed. But your videos
1:49:32won't even see the light of day if
1:49:35they're not good enough. No matter how
1:49:37many times you post, none of them will.
1:49:38Whereas one video that takes you two
1:49:40months could get could do all the work.
1:49:42Like I said, the one that I did added
1:49:44200k monthly recurring revenue, which is
1:49:46lifechanging for a lot of people and is
1:49:49now a catalyst for my videos to succeed
1:49:51going forward. So like you're one video
1:49:53away from completely changing everything
1:49:55regarding your channel, regarding a
1:49:56business on the back end if you're
1:49:57monetizing. And you should keep that in
1:50:00mind where like one video matters. So
1:50:02once you've nailed quality, then you do
1:50:04as much of it as possible. But you do
1:50:06not need to stick to a cadence in order
1:50:09to like succeed. Like my videos, I I'm
1:50:12not going to put a video out unless I
1:50:14truly believe it's an absolute banger.
1:50:16But what I will say is consistency is
1:50:19very important when you're learning the
1:50:20game of YouTube because you need a fast
1:50:22enough feedback loop to test what ideas
1:50:24work and also learn the game in terms of
1:50:26ah okay like this video worked in these
1:50:29ways but it didn't work in these ways.
1:50:31Let me take the elements of why it
1:50:32worked. let me remove the factors that
1:50:34limited it from success and continue
1:50:36through this cycle
1:50:37>> as long as it stays intentional and it's
1:50:39not just like all right I'm just posting
1:50:41four times a month just to pause four
1:50:42times a month it's like every video
1:50:44there's a goal behind it and you're
1:50:45trying to do something different.
1:50:46>> Yeah.
1:50:47>> Okay.
1:50:48>> So
1:50:49>> now that we've basically gone through
1:50:50everything on I would say like the re
1:50:52like the the actual like research and
1:50:53growth side which is from publishing to
1:50:56researching to the idea the packaging
1:50:58the hook the structure execution. Now I
1:51:01want to get into the actual business
1:51:02side of understanding okay what gets
1:51:04clients and what actually like really
1:51:05makes money for people.
1:51:06>> Yeah.
1:51:06>> Um and the perfect example here is the
1:51:09video you posted which has got 700,000
1:51:11views. You said now it's added up to
1:51:12like what 200k in recurring revenue.
1:51:14>> Yeah. At least 200k attributed to that
1:51:15monthly recurring. That video is like
1:51:18collecting over a mill lifetime at
1:51:20least.
1:51:21>> Mate [laughter] mate
1:51:24that's 700,000 200k tomorrow. That's
1:51:27that is like
1:51:28>> Yeah. like h like why how what like
1:51:33>> yeah I mean there's a lot to unpack here
1:51:35so I don't know what direction you want
1:51:36me to take with it because I think
1:51:37there's multiple bits
1:51:38>> well I think it's like the first thing
1:51:39is okay how like what do you think you
1:51:41did so differently because
1:51:43>> I mean we we do like the attribution for
1:51:46that so I I can tell you right now like
1:51:48>> not many people at 200k in MR
1:51:51>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:51:52>> from 700,000 views. So, I think first
1:51:54and foremost, of course, prerequisites,
1:51:57the offer matters, the funnel matters,
1:51:59and we can get into that side of things
1:52:00as well, cuz I think it's important that
1:52:01people have that stuff dialed, but I
1:52:03know we want to focus on the YouTube
1:52:05side first. And
1:52:06>> first is understanding that like you
1:52:08don't need to niche down in order to
1:52:12have a super high grossing video. My
1:52:14video is the most valuable YouTube
1:52:15training you'll ever watch, which
1:52:17captures all the YouTube channels that
1:52:20want to grow, from the gamers, from the
1:52:2110-year-olds that want to build their
1:52:23own YouTube channel cuz they look up to
1:52:24Mr. Beast to the people who want to quit
1:52:26their 9 to5 and make a career out of it
1:52:28to the businesses, right? And so, it
1:52:31actually can be very beneficial to have
1:52:32a broad video if you nail it because
1:52:34then it gets pushed to everybody
1:52:36heavily. So, even though you'll look at
1:52:38the comments and you'll be able to tell
1:52:40some of the people that have watched it
1:52:41and that they aren't the target market,
1:52:42at the same time, we've literally gotten
1:52:44some of our dream clients through that
1:52:46video and obviously gotten a lot of
1:52:48clients as well because at the end of
1:52:49the day, they're in the market and they
1:52:50want to grow their YouTube channel just
1:52:51like the 10-year-old kid who wants to
1:52:52build his gaming channel, right? And it
1:52:54satisfied both of them, which is the
1:52:56thing is like I was intentional about
1:52:58that. Even though in the video I was
1:52:59messaging to the business owners, I
1:53:01still made sure that it was universally
1:53:03applicable to anybody who was watching.
1:53:05But the business owners knew that it was
1:53:07for them but the other people also knew
1:53:09it was for them. So that's the first
1:53:10thing is the value obviously provided
1:53:11tremendous amount of value and I made
1:53:12sure the business owners knew that it
1:53:14was for them and I did that through
1:53:15directly calling out I did that through
1:53:17examples of other business owners and
1:53:18the realized impact that it had on those
1:53:20businesses the case studies and all
1:53:22those things are intentional and even
1:53:23the way I speak about YouTube in a very
1:53:25sophisticated way which resonates with
1:53:28those intelligent people more than the
1:53:31basic outlier theory and this dumb
1:53:33advice that most YouTube gurus give.
1:53:34Right? So from a value perspective that
1:53:37now also the call to action part or
1:53:42implied call to action is so important.
1:53:44So like if you provide if you attract
1:53:46the right people and you provide a
1:53:47tremendous amount of value to them, you
1:53:49can convert them, right? So it's as
1:53:51simple as that. You don't need to over
1:53:52complicate. If we've done the idea
1:53:53stage, the packaging stage, right, the
1:53:54hook stage, right? Cuz you made sure
1:53:56that they know it's for them, so on and
1:53:57so forth, and you provided value to
1:53:59those viewers because you know the
1:54:00expectation that you set and you knew
1:54:01the viewers that you were attracting and
1:54:02you made sure to satisfy that. The next
1:54:04step is just making them aware that you
1:54:07have an offer in some way and then also
1:54:09converting that effectively. But most
1:54:12people do call to actions completely
1:54:15wrong. They massively [ __ ] this up
1:54:18because they'll give a direct call to
1:54:20action which viewers hate being sold to.
1:54:24And so when a direct call to action
1:54:26happens that is messaged wrong, it feels
1:54:29like you are taking from the viewer. And
1:54:31no matter how much value you gave them,
1:54:34they're gonna feel a bit icky about
1:54:36that. And so this can lead to
1:54:37significant drop off, which means you
1:54:39lose viewer satisfaction, which means it
1:54:41hurts the reach of your video and can
1:54:42actually kill your video objectively if
1:54:44you really do it wrong. But also results
1:54:45in lower conversion rates, ironically,
1:54:47because you've done your you've tried
1:54:49your hardest to give the most direct
1:54:51offer to convert the highest percentage,
1:54:52but YouTube viewers don't like being
1:54:54sold to. It's not a paid ad, right? And
1:54:55so the way to do call to actions is
1:54:58instead of taking from the viewer, you
1:55:01give. And so what I mean by that is
1:55:04there's two applications of this.
1:55:05Software and physical products and then
1:55:08more service based where the thing isn't
1:55:11as tangible that you are selling
1:55:13softwares and phys softwares and
1:55:15physical products. The way you do it is
1:55:18you position the software or physical
1:55:21product in the video in a way that it is
1:55:24just naturally embedded in the video.
1:55:25You don't even have to say anything. You
1:55:28don't promote it. It is just naturally
1:55:31part of the video product positioning,
1:55:33right? So like what we did for example
1:55:35with Instantly AI, a really good example
1:55:37of this, Instantly AI, they're a lead
1:55:39generation platform. They do sending of
1:55:41cool emails at scale if you don't know,
1:55:42etc. And then what we one of the videos
1:55:45we did for them was watch me start and
1:55:47sell a service. Massively viral video
1:55:49like if you know you know [laughter]
1:55:51>> I I copied it.
1:55:52>> A lot of people did probably there's
1:55:54loads of examples.
1:55:54>> I copied it and it ripped like 70k views
1:55:57bro. It was one of my best videos on my
1:55:59channel.
1:56:00>> Really good format. So we got that idea
1:56:04from a channel which did watch me start
1:56:06and sell a digital product in 10 hours.
1:56:08And this was quite a high-risisk video
1:56:10in a sense that there wasn't multiple
1:56:11validated data points. There was just
1:56:13that one outlier. But I I understood the
1:56:14reasons why it worked. And I could get
1:56:16into that, but not for the sake of this
1:56:18because it's a different example. But
1:56:19anyways, we took that and we did watch
1:56:21me start and sell a service in 10 hours.
1:56:22So it was basically this challenge where
1:56:23we had to start and sell a service in 10
1:56:24hours. Pretty self-explanatory. Now
1:56:28with that, the narrative of the video
1:56:30was, "Okay, we're going to make this
1:56:31business. Okay, here's the offer. Here's
1:56:33the name. Here's the website. I'm
1:56:34building the offer." D right? And we
1:56:36eventually got to the stage where it
1:56:38was, okay, how do we actually get a
1:56:39client now? How do we get attention to
1:56:41this offer that we have created and we
1:56:43went through and we were like, okay,
1:56:45YouTube or or content, ah, it's going to
1:56:48take too long to get reach, right?
1:56:49That's too difficult to to do in 10
1:56:51hours. Paid ads, well, like it could
1:56:53work. We could pay for traffic, but we
1:56:54don't know if we're going to crack paid
1:56:55ads. You know, it's notoriously hard to
1:56:57crack in a time frame like that. And so
1:56:59we go through this and we basically are
1:57:01going through this thought process which
1:57:03is pre-planned of okay we won't do this
1:57:04we won't do that we landed on cold email
1:57:06because we can start thousands of cold
1:57:08emails we can send as many cold emails
1:57:10as we want and if we reverse engineer
1:57:11the numbers we can basically guarantee
1:57:13was the sales argument that we will get
1:57:15this client because if you send enough
1:57:16and you have the industry benchmarks at
1:57:18these stage you'll close the client.
1:57:19Okay cool. Oh but cold emails take two
1:57:22weeks to warm up the domains. You can't
1:57:23warm up domains in like you know it
1:57:25takes two weeks to warm the domains
1:57:27otherwise you'll land in spam. Oh, but
1:57:29we've just like instantly the platform
1:57:31has just released this new feature
1:57:33called pre-warm domains where you can
1:57:35literally get a domain today and it's
1:57:37ready to go. So, it literally became the
1:57:40only way that we could do the challenge.
1:57:43So, we basically repositioned something
1:57:45that would have been promotional as like
1:57:47the only way like we had permission to
1:57:49use it because we wouldn't have been
1:57:50able to achieve the challenge. and
1:57:51instantly became like the hero of the
1:57:54story almost of where like you know and
1:57:56and it just had to be in the video.
1:57:58There was no other way. And if you look
1:58:00at the comment sections, hundreds of
1:58:02people had said it was the best
1:58:04advertisement they'd ever seen. Like
1:58:06there's many many many comments of this
1:58:08and hundreds of likes under these
1:58:09comments like this is the best ad I've
1:58:11seen. Wow. Like I can't believe I didn't
1:58:12even know this was an ad until D. So it
1:58:15worked really well and that video
1:58:16generated multi6 figures. Of course, we
1:58:19did the same for Glen Coco where we
1:58:21speedrun cold calls from $0 to first
1:58:23sale and we're just using the platform,
1:58:26right? Like it's we don't mention it.
1:58:27And so the question you want to ask is
1:58:30or the the thing you want to be thinking
1:58:31when you're doing this is would I have
1:58:33promoted this in the way that I promoted
1:58:35this if it if I had no affiliation to
1:58:37it? Because people promote softwares all
1:58:39the time in their YouTube videos, right?
1:58:41like I've got multiplier extensions of
1:58:43outlier tools and stuff like that always
1:58:45visible and it's never going to affect
1:58:47the performance of the video cuz I don't
1:58:48give off energy which is like I'm trying
1:58:50to do it.
1:58:51>> And so that's how you promote software
1:58:52and physical products. It's just like
1:58:54yeah it's just there like what else
1:58:55would you expect? That's how you do
1:58:57that. But the problem is with more
1:58:59intangible
1:59:00products and services like if you're a
1:59:02B2B service provider or you're a
1:59:04coaching you got a coaching program info
1:59:06whatever you don't really have that
1:59:08tangibility with the the product and
1:59:10service. So the way that you replicate
1:59:12that same effect is by basically gifting
1:59:16something to the viewer that is another
1:59:20way to give value beyond what you could
1:59:22possibly give in the video itself.
1:59:24Right? You know with a video you can't
1:59:25reach through the screen and give some
1:59:27like do things for somebody. So you get
1:59:29as close to that as possible. And what I
1:59:32mean by this is for example, if you're
1:59:35doing the best Facebook ad creative
1:59:36strategy, right, for 2026 or whatever,
1:59:41people want the best ad creative
1:59:42strategy and one of those parts is going
1:59:43to be finding w winning ad creatives. If
1:59:45you give them an up-to-date free
1:59:46software tool, vibe coded, whatever,
1:59:49like a swipe file of the most up-to-date
1:59:51winning ad creatives right now,
1:59:53segmented by niche, industry, offer,
1:59:55whatever, and you get you give it to
1:59:57them for free. Like, who's not going to
1:59:59grab that, right? like you're giving
2:00:01them something that adds value beyond
2:00:03what they expected. It's why in the AI
2:00:05niche when people do Claude skill videos
2:00:08or Claude use cases. If people give the
2:00:11Claude skills in the comment section, if
2:00:14they if they give the Claude skills free
2:00:16just by going to the free school
2:00:18community and getting the Claude scale,
2:00:20who's not going to do that? Cuz if
2:00:21they're actually invested into the
2:00:22video, they don't want to go and build
2:00:23the thing out themselves when they can
2:00:24literally just get it for free. It's
2:00:25like they weren't even expecting to get
2:00:27that value. So, it actually gives. And
2:00:29what that does is it disarms the viewer.
2:00:31It increases viewer satisfaction cuz
2:00:32they weren't even expecting that. So it
2:00:34goes beyond their expectations and
2:00:36you've still got the same result where
2:00:38they've took the next step, they've
2:00:40opted in for something, you've got their
2:00:41information, and then you can redirect
2:00:43them to the main funnel and the main
2:00:44offer where you introduce it to them at
2:00:45a stage where you've already gone above
2:00:47and beyond. At that point, obviously
2:00:48you've got their email, so on and so
2:00:50forth, so you can retarget them. But
2:00:52that is the approach that I've seen work
2:00:53best. I actually fell into this with a
2:00:56channel called Ryan Dice. He basically
2:00:57did this video which was how to run a
2:00:59$10 million business with one hour per
2:01:01week. And it was going over the concept
2:01:02of a company scorecard, right, which is
2:01:05like a Google sheet where basically you
2:01:07operate the company from through a set
2:01:08of metrics. And nobody had spoke about
2:01:10this on YouTube. So it was really unique
2:01:11value and a it was a big aha moment for
2:01:13a lot of people. It's why it did so
2:01:15well. And he's just going through the
2:01:16scorecard in the video and he's like,
2:01:17"Yeah, like you can get this free Google
2:01:19sheet template in the description." Like
2:01:21just casually said it like, "Yeah, like
2:01:22I want to give you extra value." And of
2:01:24course it was an opt-in. and then I
2:01:25redirected to his main funnel and I paid
2:01:26him like I don't even know like five
2:01:28figures to invest in this program. So I
2:01:30was somebody who actually went through
2:01:32this process. Also, I will say one last
2:01:34thing those are the two main ways. The
2:01:36other way is if you don't really have
2:01:39that or you don't want to create that
2:01:40and you want to give somewhat of a
2:01:43direct call to action, you can give
2:01:45direct call to actions. Of course, I'm
2:01:46not going to say it's going to kill your
2:01:47video. The way that I prefer to do it is
2:01:49through an implied call to action. And
2:01:53this is basically making people very
2:01:55aware that you have a product and
2:01:57service and that if they want to take
2:01:59action, they can find you, but you don't
2:02:02give it directly. And to somebody who
2:02:03doesn't want to hear that, they don't
2:02:06care cuz they're not saying it that way.
2:02:07So what I did in my video was like
2:02:09towards the end, I was like, yeah, like
2:02:11this is how my clients get such good
2:02:14results every time because I run 100
2:02:16plus YouTube channels in different
2:02:17niches. I spend hundreds of thousands of
2:02:19dollars a month on my YouTube systems.
2:02:21And so I just have more visibility than
2:02:23anybody else. So when I'm running
2:02:24channels for these clients, I make
2:02:26better decisions than anybody else in
2:02:28the niche. And we win pretty much every
2:02:30single time. And so I basically just
2:02:32explain to my target market that if you
2:02:35want to work with me, here's the sales
2:02:37argument as to why you're just
2:02:39unreasonably going to win. Like it's
2:02:40just so unlikely that you're not going
2:02:43to be the winner in your niche if you
2:02:44work with me. and I've said that I've
2:02:46got clients without it being in a way
2:02:48where I'm like it's just an example,
2:02:49right? But they now know I've got
2:02:51clients and they're like, "Oh, like this
2:02:52guy runs a service. Hm. Like, let me
2:02:53check the description. Oh, I'll run your
2:02:55YouTube channel done for you." You know?
2:02:57So, they take action from there. But
2:02:59anybody who didn't want to hear that,
2:03:00they just take it as an example of like,
2:03:01"Oh, yeah, use that example. That that
2:03:02makes sense." So, yeah, I prefer to
2:03:06avoid giving direct call to actions if I
2:03:08can. It can be a good way to get a fast
2:03:11feedback loop on data to understand like
2:03:13okay if you do give a direct call to
2:03:15action you know you can measure how many
2:03:19out of how many views did people take
2:03:20the next step in terms of link clicks
2:03:22etc. CTR.
2:03:23>> Yeah. Like
2:03:24>> well that's the second version of CTR.
2:03:25It's like clickthrough rate. So per per
2:03:27thousand views, what percentage of
2:03:28people click on the link?
2:03:30>> Yeah. And so like direct call to actions
2:03:32give you a very direct way of feedback
2:03:34of okay, how many people did I convert?
2:03:36But you know, you're going to get a much
2:03:38higher link click-through rate through
2:03:41the approach that I've just described
2:03:43because people everybody wants the thing
2:03:46that you're going through if they're
2:03:47invested in the video and they don't
2:03:49feel like you're being salesy. So they
2:03:50don't have resentment towards you and
2:03:52also it's going to result in a better
2:03:53video because higher viewer
2:03:55satisfaction. Hm. Yeah. There's
2:03:57something that a lot of people are doing
2:03:59now which I personally disagree with
2:04:00which is like oh make videos and you can
2:04:02send Instagram leads to YouTube. Like
2:04:04you know the Instagram guys are like oh
2:04:06we send people to YouTube we make videos
2:04:09specifically for our IG audience and
2:04:11it's like just middle bottom of the
2:04:13funnel like pure value videos. Like
2:04:16>> I think if you're going to do that, I
2:04:17think just do it on a separate channel
2:04:19because your YouTube channel is one
2:04:22campaign and if you're making videos
2:04:23that are outside of or in misalignment
2:04:26with the other objectives of the
2:04:28campaign, then like it's not going to
2:04:30succeed. Like if you're trying to build
2:04:32a massive brand on YouTube, but then
2:04:33you're doing super bottom funnel content
2:04:34that is extremely valuable, but like
2:04:36doesn't really match with the objective
2:04:39of this and also the audience that
2:04:40you're attracting, just do it on a
2:04:42separate channel and use YouTube's
2:04:43collaboration feature, which allows you
2:04:44to get all the benefits of it being on
2:04:46the same channel without the negatives
2:04:48because you get the algorithm push from
2:04:50any audience you're building over here
2:04:51and vice versa, but it doesn't mess up
2:04:54the channel. Um, I think middle of
2:04:57funnel, bottom ofunnel content
2:04:59absolutely serves its purpose logically,
2:05:00right? If you have case study interviews
2:05:02and these things, it's going to help
2:05:04push over that audience that is
2:05:05considering buying and they hear real
2:05:07case studies, but you just have it on a
2:05:09separate channel. You can do it in
2:05:10moderation. If it's like if you're doing
2:05:11one video per week and then you have an
2:05:13additional video per month where it's a
2:05:14case study interview, it's fine. Like
2:05:15it's in moderation and especially if
2:05:17there's value provided in that that's
2:05:18relevant to the audience because it's
2:05:19still relevant to them. But if you're
2:05:21doing like one video case case case of
2:05:23interview a week or like one super
2:05:25bottom of funnel content per week and
2:05:26then you're doing one more top ofunnel
2:05:28YouTube optimized video per week, that's
2:05:30like too much of a split to where you
2:05:32need to split that off into separate
2:05:33channels.
2:05:34>> And how do you know when like
2:05:38like how do you [snorts] know when
2:05:39YouTube is actually like doing its
2:05:42job or if like the funnel is the issue
2:05:45or like the conversion mechanism? Yeah,
2:05:48I mean the best way to know is to
2:05:50actually have your data tracking in
2:05:52place because otherwise you're not going
2:05:54to be able to effectively diagnose the
2:05:57bottleneck. Basically, you have to you
2:05:59have to be able to run a bottleneck
2:06:00analysis of there are metrics at each
2:06:03stage which if you were on KPI and you
2:06:06were hitting industry benchmarks and
2:06:08that you you know you you were on track
2:06:10with you would be converting from your
2:06:11videos. So if you're not converting at
2:06:13some stage in the process you are
2:06:16failing or there is a bottleneck right a
2:06:18bottleneck being defined as you have a
2:06:20throughput in a system and a bottleneck
2:06:22is where the width of the bottle closes
2:06:26in right so basically even if the
2:06:28bottle's this wide if you have a
2:06:31bottleneck of this the maximum
2:06:32throughput of the entire system is this.
2:06:35So what you're doing is you're trying to
2:06:36identify where that bottleneck is. And
2:06:38to be able to effectively do that, you
2:06:39do need to be tracking how many views
2:06:42you're getting on your video from
2:06:43logically who would be your target
2:06:45market based on targeting. You have to
2:06:47be logical there. Then how many of those
2:06:50people are clicking link clickthrough
2:06:51rate. How many of those people are
2:06:53actually landing on the site is even
2:06:55another micrometric cuz you might have
2:06:56an issue with your site. And then how
2:06:58many people opt in if you have an
2:07:00opt-in? How many become leads? How many
2:07:02book calls from there if you have a call
2:07:04booking process? How many show up to
2:07:06those calls? how many closed from those
2:07:07calls, right? You have the full you have
2:07:09the full funnel metrics and you have to
2:07:11be able to measure those accurately. So,
2:07:13you can see, okay, I actually got quite
2:07:15a good amount of views and then I got a
2:07:18good link clickthrough rate, but then
2:07:19actually when people landed on the site,
2:07:21they converted at a really low rate. And
2:07:22then you have to be able to look at that
2:07:24and isolate that and think, okay, why
2:07:26did that happen? Was it because the
2:07:28messaging on the page didn't match what
2:07:29I communicated in the video or it
2:07:31doesn't isn't clear that it's for that
2:07:33particular audience or maybe v video
2:07:35sales letter isn't high converting rate.
2:07:37There could be multiple multiple reasons
2:07:38but you then know where to place all of
2:07:40your attention. Then you just attack
2:07:42that constraint. Once you've identified
2:07:44the constraint, you can then absolutely
2:07:46attack that. Maybe you weren't getting
2:07:47enough views in the first place and all
2:07:48the other metrics were good. like of the
2:07:50hundred views that you did get, maybe
2:07:53you got 10 of those people to click.
2:07:55Yeah. And then, you know, so on and so
2:07:57forth, but no wonder you didn't make any
2:07:59money because already you only had 10
2:08:00people who clicked. And no matter how
2:08:02good your conversions rate conversion
2:08:03rates were back end,
2:08:05>> you you just don't have enough traffic.
2:08:07So, you've got to be able to identify
2:08:08where the constraint and the bottleneck
2:08:09is and then
2:08:11>> just attack that, solve that. And once
2:08:14you've solved that, then you can, you
2:08:16know, kind of continue through this
2:08:17feedback loop of continuing to optimize
2:08:19the YouTube funnel.
2:08:20>> Yeah. So, now we're obviously going into
2:08:22the feedback loop. Um, two things I'm
2:08:24curious obviously is like one, what are
2:08:27you using to track? Like how is your
2:08:29tracking? Um, which is an obvious one
2:08:32now, but um and then the one that's most
2:08:35important is like what what are the
2:08:36benchmarks you have for every stage?
2:08:39>> Yeah. So, obviously using track. There
2:08:41we go. You got to have you got to have
2:08:43some attribution solution in place. And
2:08:44so
2:08:45>> that's what we're using. And then
2:08:47>> in terms of the
2:08:50benchmarks,
2:08:52>> you've got to be able in terms of like
2:08:54what like the the actual numbers I would
2:08:55say
2:08:55>> like typical CTRs, optin rates, booking
2:08:58rates. I have some ideas obviously, but
2:09:00like what is it you look for? Like what
2:09:02what's the benchmark where it's like
2:09:04because obviously before we were doing
2:09:05it, no one really cared about CTR like
2:09:07like clicks per views. when I introduce
2:09:10it to people, they're like, "What the
2:09:11hell even is that?" Yeah. But like you
2:09:13need to know that because it also gives
2:09:14an awareness of like how aware are they
2:09:16what you have.
2:09:17>> Um
2:09:18>> but like then you know if you have a
2:09:21video like cuz you can look at like 10
2:09:23different videos and then some videos
2:09:25like have triple the opt-in rate of
2:09:27another video.
2:09:29>> So it's like how do you like how do you
2:09:31attack that? And then what are the
2:09:32benchmarks you look for? Is it like
2:09:34>> 10%. Obviously if you have a newsletter
2:09:36or book a call funnel it's very
2:09:37different. It's like 10% 30%. It really
2:09:40varies. But
2:09:41>> do you have like benchmarks for stats
2:09:43they should look at or is it also like
2:09:44situation by situation?
2:09:45>> It's definitely situational because like
2:09:47I mean I would say on YouTube a bad call
2:09:50to action like if you're giving like a
2:09:52bad call to action you might see like 1
2:09:54to 2%. I think if you're giving like a
2:09:56really good call to action
2:09:58conservatively you can see 5 to 10 if
2:10:00it's the right audience. Yes. Yeah.
2:10:02Yeah, if you're giving like a proper
2:10:04position lead magnet link CTR where it's
2:10:08like the best Facebook ads creative
2:10:10strategy and you're giving like a swipe
2:10:12file of ad creatives if you're like if
2:10:14you're getting the right viewers and
2:10:15you're communicating that you can
2:10:17reasonably expect that
2:10:19>> yeah I think if you're really good you
2:10:21can get to there but you'd be s like
2:10:23we've seen some videos get like8%.
2:10:26>> Really?
2:10:27>> Yeah. I mean they might need your help
2:10:28but like Yeah.
2:10:30And then some people that are on the
2:10:32like
2:10:33>> it'll vary. Sometimes it'll even be like
2:10:34even a free group will get like three
2:10:36and a half to 4%.
2:10:37>> But it's also because
2:10:38>> that's quite good for a free group I
2:10:39would say though.
2:10:40>> Yeah. But that's like the easiest one.
2:10:42>> Yeah. But it varies. Sometimes when
2:10:44people are super aware like it'll be
2:10:46higher. But like like we've had a vlog
2:10:48that had like a 0.05% 05% CTR.
2:10:52>> And then the next vlog they filmed, I
2:10:53was like, "All right, just put a student
2:10:55case study in the middle of the vlog."
2:10:56Like that randomly comes or like
2:10:58>> have it be like uh you FaceTime him to
2:11:01like congratulate him on his result.
2:11:03>> Yeah.
2:11:03>> Then it implies that there's something
2:11:05and then like that just like took it
2:11:07from like 0.05%.
2:11:09To like 1%. Cuz a vlog is like the
2:11:11awareness level.
2:11:12>> It's Yeah. It's also how broad is the
2:11:14audience, you know? Like if you've got
2:11:15like a really relevant audience and you
2:11:16time the call to action well and it's
2:11:18like a value based call to action, not
2:11:20like a take, it's a give. That's what
2:11:23I'm talking about where like
2:11:25>> you know you can reasonably like expect
2:11:27three to five but if your audience is
2:11:29more targeted then five to 10 is what
2:11:30we've seen. But then
2:11:32>> yeah like if it's like a direct call to
2:11:34action in a vlog like that's going to be
2:11:36mega
2:11:37>> cuz because the question also comes like
2:11:39how do you use it the data you're
2:11:41getting after? Well, it's to understand
2:11:43like you can once you've got the full
2:11:45funnel metrics, you're able to see what
2:11:47a constraint is and you're able to make
2:11:48judgments based on the constraint. Like
2:11:50if you've got a really low link
2:11:51clickthrough rate, it might not even be
2:11:52the call to action. It might be the
2:11:53audience you're attracting, right? Like
2:11:55you might just be attracting an audience
2:11:56that isn't really relevant. Or that can
2:11:59even happen actually at the landing page
2:12:01conversion rate. Like once you've got
2:12:02people landing on the page, but
2:12:03logically your funnel's intact and the
2:12:05messaging is good and you don't see any
2:12:07issues there. It might be because of the
2:12:09quality of the traffic, right? A lot of
2:12:10people might click, but they then drop
2:12:12off at that stage cuz they don't book a
2:12:13call because they're not qualified.
2:12:15>> Do you do you also look at like the
2:12:16videos they interact with before they
2:12:19like purchase or book a call, or is that
2:12:21less relevant?
2:12:21>> Yeah. Like because certain videos are
2:12:23going to be the ones that bring in the
2:12:24people, but then certain ones are going
2:12:26to be the ones that convert higher. Like
2:12:28for me, the most valuable YouTube
2:12:29training you'll ever watch, like
2:12:30obviously that convert a lot of people,
2:12:31both first click and last click
2:12:33attribution. But then a lot of last
2:12:34click attribution came from the
2:12:36breakdown that I did with Cameron
2:12:37England because that they saw that video
2:12:39and then they watched that one and then
2:12:40they were like oh wow that was like
2:12:42hella valuable. So you've got to look at
2:12:44both because both are important. Like a
2:12:46lot of people look at last click and
2:12:48they use that as like oh like these are
2:12:50the videos that are the highest
2:12:51converting but without the videos that
2:12:52were like super top of funnel that
2:12:53brought those people in you wouldn't
2:12:55have gotten that anyways right. So it
2:12:57can lead you to make incorrect decisions
2:12:59based off of that. Yeah, we had um like
2:13:01we had a guy book a call last week and
2:13:03we can like we saw like all the that he
2:13:06like went through like three podcasts.
2:13:08Yeah.
2:13:08>> And then like he booked a call from IG
2:13:10because he was just watching clips.
2:13:11>> Yeah.
2:13:11>> And he was like, "Dude, what the hell?
2:13:12How did you like whatever." So, it's
2:13:14like kind of interesting to see cuz
2:13:16people now crossplatform more than ever
2:13:18also.
2:13:18>> Yeah.
2:13:19>> Um have you ever tracked like how long
2:13:20it takes for someone to convert on
2:13:22YouTube like from the first like
2:13:24interaction they have to like closing or
2:13:27approximately? Well, it completely
2:13:29depends on the offer really, doesn't it?
2:13:30Like I think certain people can have a
2:13:32sales cycle of months sometimes if it's
2:13:35really high ticket I think like but
2:13:37obviously then for certain offers it
2:13:39just depends on the offer as well and
2:13:40how good the offer is. But for me I post
2:13:42one video they didn't know who I was
2:13:43before and then within a week they've
2:13:45closed. So I just think it very much
2:13:48depends on the size of the offer. But I
2:13:51think YouTube's the best at accelerating
2:13:53the sales cycles. So we're not really
2:13:54seeing sales cycles of you know multi
2:13:57multim months you know max usually we're
2:13:59seeing between one to three months I
2:14:01would say for the highest ticket but
2:14:03most are very quick most can even
2:14:04convert from the first video or the
2:14:06second watch from a you know like a big
2:14:08one binge session. So
2:14:10>> but you know why it did it's because
2:14:11your video opened and closed the loop.
2:14:14So, it's like we we actually ran like a
2:14:16test with like all the we did like a
2:14:19report. I actually gave it to Vexian uh
2:14:22the report and it showed that like a
2:14:24how-to video, a how I video gets two to
2:14:27threex the revenue of a how-to. So, it's
2:14:29like the video you did is like, oh, it's
2:14:31how you build a 100K month channel.
2:14:32Well, you like kind of talked about how
2:14:34to do it, but then you also proved that
2:14:36you experimented on their behalf. So,
2:14:38you educate them, but then you also
2:14:39prove you already experimented. is it's
2:14:41like it kind of clears both. Whereas
2:14:43usually people they like introduce a
2:14:44business model and they show a guide of
2:14:46how to do outreach. They show a guide of
2:14:48how to do this, how to do that.
2:14:49>> But if you do like a challenge video of
2:14:51like a 24-hour challenge, then people
2:14:53will like watch and buy immediately cuz
2:14:54they're like
2:14:55>> you've already done like everything to
2:14:56prove you're legit.
2:14:57>> It's all Yeah. So,
2:14:58>> but you use the example as like the best
2:15:00way to educate somebody, but then also
2:15:02at the same time, oh my god, this guy's
2:15:04the guy. Like I like I just have that
2:15:05many examples where it's like
2:15:06>> what is he just is he just got the the
2:15:09magic touch? And then yeah, challenge
2:15:11videos are like super viral videos but
2:15:14also like the most authory.
2:15:16>> Um I mean last thing before we go
2:15:17towards the end,
2:15:19>> how much do you use a lot of AI in the
2:15:21business right now?
2:15:21>> Yes.
2:15:22>> And like I guess which aspect you use AI
2:15:24in
2:15:25>> like everywhere. So
2:15:28the the biggest part where AI is
2:15:30replacing
2:15:32or or contributing the most I would say
2:15:34is script writing naturally. Um, but I
2:15:37would say not in the way that it carries
2:15:39the script writing in the way that it
2:15:41molds the script the best. So, it's used
2:15:43both in that interview intake process to
2:15:45be able to basically bring out the best
2:15:50thoughts and challenge them and refine
2:15:53and mold them in the planning process.
2:15:56So even how I script my own videos, but
2:15:59also how we do it for clients, it's this
2:16:01series of back and forth where the AI is
2:16:03trained to be an expert proberjournalist
2:16:06slash interviewer, right? Where they're
2:16:08getting all of the juicier stuff and
2:16:11figuring out where the potential gaps
2:16:12are and how we need to refine certain
2:16:15phrasing of certain things to make it
2:16:17more aha to the viewer or like you know
2:16:20communicate it better. So it's really
2:16:21that sparring partner like the
2:16:23journalist but then also the person like
2:16:25who molds it into being phrased the best
2:16:28less so about yeah like use all my
2:16:30knowledge base and just go write the
2:16:31video which a lot of people use it for.
2:16:33So it's
2:16:34>> used as a tool to make the script better
2:16:36than it ever could have been without it
2:16:39and also at a record-breaking pace that
2:16:42we've ever seen. We also use AI a lot in
2:16:44our research because the research
2:16:47process is very algorithmic, but it does
2:16:49require a level of intelligence and
2:16:51nuanced thinking in certain areas. The
2:16:53same way that a human could do it, like
2:16:55an untrained human with the right
2:16:57process and feedback from somebody who
2:16:59is an expert, you can delegate that to
2:17:02AI. So, we use it a lot for being able
2:17:05to keep visibility over the entirety of
2:17:08YouTube of what's working everywhere. We
2:17:10still have humans involved in the loop.
2:17:11Like we still have assistants who are
2:17:13running this and junior strategists who
2:17:15are running this and we still have the
2:17:16quality assurance layer at that sort of
2:17:19senior level of strategy who's like okay
2:17:21what you just gave me as a report or a
2:17:23return is not good here's how I would
2:17:26change that and that constant feedback
2:17:27as you naturally would with managing a
2:17:28team so we use it there
2:17:30>> we're also pushing the boats when it
2:17:32comes to AI in editing which I when I
2:17:35see some of the videos that are online
2:17:37about using AI and editing like I think
2:17:39people are not using at the cutting edge
2:17:42of what they could be. Uh, at least for
2:17:44educational videos, I think AI truly is
2:17:49already here in terms of its ability to
2:17:52support the editing process and at least
2:17:55increase the speed by 60 to 80% which is
2:17:58already tremendous especially for
2:18:00costwise like editing costs quite a bit.
2:18:03the biggest cost really with running a
2:18:04YouTube channel even though it's one of
2:18:05the lowest leverage pieces and it's
2:18:06really at that point now where a lot of
2:18:08people can automate a lot of editing
2:18:10with AI and then just having that human
2:18:12process who's kind of overseeing it and
2:18:1310xing their ability to output um
2:18:16thumbnail design we don't really use it
2:18:18much in like we don't design thumbnails
2:18:20with AI but we do use it to generate
2:18:23poses and get make concepts into reality
2:18:27in a way we never could before so you
2:18:29can use tools like Higsfield or Magnific
2:18:32is another one where if you give it
2:18:35enough references and you give it the
2:18:37right exhaustive prompt of like the
2:18:41exact image that you want, it can do it
2:18:43to like n on 100% accuracy like tending
2:18:46towards it. So yeah, we use it really in
2:18:49all places, just in different
2:18:50capacities. But I think soon enough it
2:18:53will become a place where,
2:18:55you know, to be able to run 100 YouTube
2:18:57channels, you're only going to need uh
2:18:59head one head in certain areas and like
2:19:02in strategy and script writing, etc.,
2:19:04and a few editors to be able to do that
2:19:07work, you know. So,
2:19:09>> and for um I guess one of the final ones
2:19:12is for someone who's watching right now
2:19:13and they're like, "Oh, I want to do all
2:19:14this myself and everything or I want to
2:19:15get a strategist." At what point do you
2:19:18think it's smart to get a strategist or
2:19:20get get an agency or someone to help
2:19:22you? I think like I think at the point
2:19:24where you are confident enough that
2:19:29YouTube is the right thing to invest and
2:19:31commit to and you can actually afford it
2:19:33of course and you can budget for it
2:19:34because
2:19:36the reality is is you it's it's
2:19:38obviously good for you to understand the
2:19:39fundamentals but it does take time and
2:19:42you need to be able to put that energy
2:19:43towards it to do it. Like you have to
2:19:45commit to YouTube and like you can do it
2:19:47yourself. You absolutely can, but
2:19:50you've got to know what you're going up
2:19:52against and you've got to be able to
2:19:53make the assessment of can I beat what
2:19:55I'm going up against solo.
2:19:57>> Uh I think even with strategists, it's
2:20:00difficult because
2:20:02strategists are YouTube experts, but if
2:20:04they're running solo, then their time is
2:20:07going to be spread across multiple
2:20:09clients. And so even their time is tied
2:20:12to the actual strategy work rather than
2:20:14being able to have the visibility.
2:20:15>> Mhm. And obviously you have to be
2:20:17careful. So like what that means is they
2:20:18might they're able to make the right
2:20:20judgments on the data that they have but
2:20:21they actually lack the data right. So
2:20:22like when they have the information they
2:20:24can make the right decisions but they
2:20:26lack the information because they don't
2:20:27have the scale advantage of seeing over
2:20:29YouTube. So
2:20:30>> you have to be careful with strategist
2:20:31and that's why hiring in house I think
2:20:32is a terrible idea because even if you
2:20:35spend like 30 grand a month on an
2:20:36internal YouTube team, you're actually
2:20:37getting bang average talent and that
2:20:39talent is limited by their time. Um, and
2:20:42agencies obviously you have to be
2:20:43careful with because a lot of them
2:20:44aren't YouTube experts even though
2:20:45they'll do everything for you. So I
2:20:47think it makes sense. You got to find
2:20:48the right partner for it. Um, and I
2:20:51would say at the point where you feel
2:20:53like if you make the right decision, it
2:20:55would be positive ROI. You know, if you
2:20:58if like if an you if a actual correct
2:21:00YouTube partner charges 5K a month, 10K
2:21:03a month, and
2:21:05>> you think you're pretty confident that I
2:21:06can at least generate you an extra deal
2:21:08or two within the next 3 months when
2:21:09your average deal size is 30K or
2:21:11whatever it is, like it's just a logical
2:21:13investment. So, and the content lasts
2:21:15forever as well.
2:21:16>> And and where do you think like I think
2:21:18to end it off, where do you think
2:21:19YouTube's going now? YouTube business
2:21:22growth, like where do you see it heading
2:21:23in the next couple years? Yeah, I think
2:21:26the sophistication level of the market
2:21:29is going to continue to rise to where
2:21:31right now
2:21:34>> businesses with YouTube it's still very
2:21:35much in the early stage where we're in
2:21:37the phase now when I started my company
2:21:39we were in the phase where businesses
2:21:40didn't even value YouTube now where I
2:21:42remember yeah and you have to sell
2:21:44businesses
2:21:45>> being a YouTube agency it was the
2:21:46shittiest thing ever I remember bro it
2:21:48was like you had to prove it you had to
2:21:50tweet about it was like you have to
2:21:51convince them they should do YouTube
2:21:52they would mispost 24/7 seven like
2:21:55>> Yeah.
2:21:55>> Yeah.
2:21:56>> And so now it's shifted to where they're
2:21:59everybody's curious about it. Some
2:22:01people still need the push of the edge
2:22:02cuz it's uncharted territory for a lot,
2:22:05but the curiosity usually overcomes the
2:22:07uncertainty to where like it's
2:22:09exploratory marketing now and it's
2:22:10officially considered as that and
2:22:11therefore people make the jump and they
2:22:13can logically make that decision because
2:22:15of all the other benefits that come
2:22:17through long form. So we're going to
2:22:19start to see the competition increase
2:22:22massively, but still at the stage now
2:22:25where a lot of people aren't doing it at
2:22:26the highest level. So if you're able to
2:22:28like a lot of the people who are doing
2:22:30it are at most doing this adjacent niche
2:22:32ideation and blah blah blah and they're
2:22:33too slow on it, right? So there's still
2:22:35a massive opportunity to be at the
2:22:37forefront of it and establish yourself
2:22:38as the forefront in your niche now
2:22:41before the sophistication level rises
2:22:43too much to where it's common knowledge
2:22:46on how to build an internal YouTube team
2:22:48to the highest level. Right? We're still
2:22:49in that like gold rush phase where most
2:22:52people don't know how to do it
2:22:53correctly. And so if you can get in
2:22:55front of that, you establish yourself
2:22:56for the future as the authority. So I
2:22:58think the sophistication level is going
2:23:00to rise. I think uh businesses are going
2:23:02to become more educated. people in
2:23:03general are going to become more
2:23:04educated and so yeah, I think um it's
2:23:09it's going to get harder and harder to
2:23:10be able to stand out and I think the
2:23:13people who win are going to be the
2:23:14people who understand it to the deepest
2:23:18level on as I say like a first principle
2:23:21standpoint and are able to like stay
2:23:23ahead of the market that way because
2:23:26everybody will learn the YouTube tactics
2:23:28and the YouTube fundamentals which don't
2:23:30change and it's going to be the people
2:23:32who are going to intelligent who are
2:23:34identifying where does where does the
2:23:35market go next? Where is the opportunity
2:23:36in the market right now? Because there's
2:23:37there's always going to be a way to
2:23:39break through. It's just going to be
2:23:42it's just not going to be the common way
2:23:44where now it's like oh like these things
2:23:46didn't weren't done in this niche but
2:23:48they were done in another niche which
2:23:49makes it super easy now with this
2:23:50adjacent niche ideation that shit's not
2:23:52going to exist as much as it does right
2:23:54now because everybody's going to be
2:23:56aware of it and everybody's going to be
2:23:57looking out for it. So it's going to be
2:23:58the people who are staying ahead and who
2:24:00knows what that looks like in terms of
2:24:02what those common opportunities are like
2:24:03adjacent niche ideation is now you know
2:24:06it's it's it's hard to tell obviously
2:24:07you can predict where those things might
2:24:10be with the way AI is going. Like for
2:24:12example, I think with my video even the
2:24:14the inerson talks, like if you have that
2:24:17undeniable authority to where you are
2:24:20speaking in front of a room live,
2:24:23riffing or doing these in-person consult
2:24:25videos where the viewer knows it's not
2:24:27scripted. They know there's no AI
2:24:29involved in it. It's real human. So
2:24:31that's one of those things where you can
2:24:32make an hypothesis of where things are
2:24:34going in one aspect. And so I think
2:24:36there's lots of these and uh yeah, it's
2:24:39going to get harder. And also the people
2:24:41who are going to build the best system
2:24:42are going to win. Like it is
2:24:45it's it's ob you have to be you have to
2:24:47call a spade a spade and understand that
2:24:48if you're going up against somebody who
2:24:50runs a hundred plus YouTube channels and
2:24:52spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a
2:24:53month on YouTube like it is going to be
2:24:56difficult not impossible to beat that
2:24:58person but it's going to be difficult to
2:24:59beat that person. And you have to be
2:25:00smart in the way that you do that
2:25:01because that person has the visibility.
2:25:04they have the system dialed into a tea
2:25:06and like you know it's hard to hard to
2:25:09overcome that but there is a way right
2:25:10you just have to get smart and savvy um
2:25:13so yeah
2:25:15>> okay well dude it was good to get you on
2:25:18>> yes
2:25:19>> and um hope you guys like the episode.

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