Maya Angelou interview | Mavis on Four | 1987 — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00Could I be so bold as declare that what
2. 0:02I thought the theme was the thing I
3. 0:04picked up from it was that you were
4. 0:05saying you've got to be sure of
5. 0:07yourself, kid. That's it. Whoever you
6. 0:09are, that's it. You are. Well, most some
7. 0:13of the time. What I if I had if I really
8. 0:17had achieved it, I would probably put a
9. 0:21straw in a half gallon of scotch, prop
10. 0:26it up on a pillow, and sip myself on out
11. 0:30of here. I haven't achieved it. I mean,
12. 0:33I blow it all the time. I'm as
13. 0:35vulnerable and fragile as the last raw
14. 0:38egg in the world. But on stage you look
15. 0:42so sure. Yes. Yes. Do I? I don't know.
16. 0:46You do? But maybe I can tell you for
17. 0:49myself that I'm always
18. 0:53scared. I'm always nervous. I mean, when
19. 0:57you and I meet in a restaurant or at a
20. 0:59party or dinner or something because I
21. 1:02know you like me and I know I like you,
22. 1:05I'm okay. When I'm with a sister friend
23. 1:08or brother friend, I'm okay. But when
24. 1:10I'm with
25. 1:11strangers and in front of people, I'm
26. 1:14never okay. I'm wondering, will I be
27. 1:18okay? Let me be honest and try to be
28. 1:21brave, you know. Do you want to be liked
29. 1:25then more than admired?
30. 1:27Oh, I don't know that there's a
31. 1:29difference. There is. What's the
32. 1:31difference? Well, admire is say for
33. 1:33instance, we admire your work. We admire
34. 1:35your presentation.
35. 1:38We got to like you. Oh, I see. Yes.
36. 1:41Well, but if I went around every corner
37. 1:44of the world, I couldn't meet the people
38. 1:47so that they could get to know me enough
39. 1:49to like
40. 1:51me. I want the admiration of my work and
41. 1:54and the admiration, the use of it. I
42. 1:56want people to like my work and use it.
43. 2:00One, nobody is going to be everything to
44. 2:02everybody. You can't be all things, you
45. 2:04know. I know that. And so, not
46. 2:07everybody's going to like me. Some
47. 2:10people think, what a, you know, I mean,
48. 2:12who is this big black broad, you know, I
49. 2:16mean, you know, what is that big smile
50. 2:19about? I mean, is that real? And then
51. 2:21other people say, you know, she really
52. 2:23is fantastic. She's she's herself and
53. 2:25she shot uh shoes off and stockings, you
54. 2:29know, maybe with runs or you call them
55. 2:32ladders, you know, she's trying her best
56. 2:35and so some people will like to like
57. 2:37like me and some will not and that's
58. 2:40their affair. You've got a universal
59. 2:42appeal though. You sell all over the
60. 2:44world. That's a blessing. Now then, what
61. 2:47is it to do with do you think?
62. 2:51Well, I write through the black
63. 2:53experience. That's what I know and
64. 2:56really know. But I'm always talking
65. 2:58about the human condition. What it is
66. 3:02that makes us smarm up to one person and
67. 3:05be weak and silly and frivolous. I mean,
68. 3:09that's not a bad thing to be frivolous.
69. 3:11I don't mean that. But what what on the
70. 3:13other hand makes us uh be haughty to
71. 3:17another person and look down on him or
72. 3:19her and and how we can fall and fail and
73. 3:23stumble and somehow
74. 3:26rise and get our stuff together again
75. 3:29and start out again. So, I write about a
76. 3:32poor black girl in Arkansas, a young
77. 3:35black woman in San Francisco, and but a
78. 3:39an Asian man in Hong Kong reads it and
79. 3:43says, "That's the truth about the about
80. 3:45human nature."
81. 3:47I'm still going to persist though what
82. 3:49your presence is. For one thing, it's
83. 3:51magnetic. Particularly on that stage,
84. 3:54it's magnetic. Now, where did you how
85. 3:56did you arrive at it? That's confidence.
86. 3:58smile. I know what I want to achieve,
87. 4:02Mavis. And I'm not I'm not being modest.
88. 4:05I told you before, I have no modesty.
89. 4:07Modesty is dangerous. It's it's it's a
90. 4:09learned affectation. And as soon as the
91. 4:12modest person gets slammed against the
92. 4:14wall, by life, modesty will drop off
93. 4:17faster than a g-string from a stripper.
94. 4:20You know, that's bologoney modesty. I I
95. 4:23am I hope to be humble. Humility is from
96. 4:28within and so that keeps you honest and
97. 4:31try to be simple and so forth. So I have
98. 4:33no modesty. Uh
99. 4:36but I know
100. 4:39theater. I write for it. I have studied
101. 4:42it. I act in it every now and again. So
102. 4:46I know that and I'm
103. 4:48centered. So when I go onto the stage, I
104. 4:50bring everybody on with me. Now that's
105. 4:53another thing. Mavis, this is the
106. 4:55hottest. This is the best. I bring
107. 4:59everybody who's ever loved me and taught
108. 5:03me and supported me onto the stage with
109. 5:06me in my mind. Do you mean you think
110. 5:09about them? Yes. So that they're there
111. 5:11for your confidence. I said, "Come on."
112. 5:13Like when you're ill in hospital, you go
113. 5:14through all the list of the people that
114. 5:16could be loving you at that moment.
115. 5:18Right. I bring them all so that an
116. 5:20audience says, "She has charisma." The
117. 5:22truth is they can't see all these
118. 5:25shadows that are there. Some u black,
119. 5:29some white, some male, some female, who
120. 5:32have dared to love me. And so they're
121. 5:36all there. I said, "Let's go." You've
122. 5:37written four autobiographies, five
123. 5:40autobiographies, darling. You must know
124. 5:42yourself pretty well. And wait now,
125. 5:45maybe it's what I know. I know a lot of
126. 5:47facts and some truth. But you see facts
127. 5:51can be very dangerous because they can
128. 5:53obscure the truth. You can tell so many
129. 5:55facts. You haven't told I mean an inch
130. 5:57of truth. You say and it was on
131. 5:591917 and with and then his name was and
132. 6:02so you give the facts. We believe you
133. 6:04you know. Yes. But what I tried to do is
134. 6:06tell the truth. I tried to go behind the
135. 6:09facts and say this is really what was
136. 6:12happening. This is what the air smelled
137. 6:14like. This was the weight of the heat on
138. 6:16my skin. This is how my nose was itching
139. 6:19and the the things the adrenaline was
140. 6:22pouring through so that those glands
141. 6:25were moving under my arms and my kneecap
142. 6:27was slipping and so forth. I think we
143. 6:29live rather vicariously through your
144. 6:31life, you know, because you've you've
145. 6:34done so much. You've upped and changed.
146. 6:37Yeah. And you've been successful and you
147. 6:40rise. Yes. And you're rising. Yes.
148. 6:43Right. Yes. Now then, why is it that you
149. 6:47can do that? Most of us get a kind of
150. 6:49comfy idea of ourselves and we stick
151. 6:51with it, don't we? You don't. No. Why
152. 6:54not?
153. 6:55Well, I know that we're all in process
154. 6:58and as nice as this seat is and this
155. 7:02room is and how nice it is to be with
156. 7:04you and have some relatives in the
157. 7:06background
158. 7:08and respectful and and gracious
159. 7:12directors and producers and floor
160. 7:15managers around. This too will change.
161. 7:19This will change. I know it. This cannot
162. 7:23remain the same.
163. 7:25Wait now. But wait, let me just be right
164. 7:27on it.
165. 7:29In an hour, you'll be gone. All these
166. 7:32folks will be gone. I will be sitting
167. 7:34here alone preparing
168. 7:36myself in truth for another performance
169. 7:40of
170. 7:41strangers alone, except from one sister
171. 7:44from Geneva.
172. 7:47Alone. Tomorrow morning, I won't see
173. 7:49her. I'll be on a plane with another
174. 7:53brilliant and strong young woman to
175. 7:55Scotland. I will go from there. I will
176. 7:58be on a plane to Liberia. I will be back
177. 8:00in my home. That anything will all of
178. 8:03this will change. It would be foolish of
179. 8:05me to think that I've got it now. No,
180. 8:08but I mean those are little changes in a
181. 8:10way like moving from one place to
182. 8:12another, but you're still Myerangelo
183. 8:14University professor or reading poetry
184. 8:16in a place. What I'm saying is that your
185. 8:17life changed quite dramatically in many
186. 8:19many ways. You've changed from um all
187. 8:22kinds of things. Keeping a wh house.
188. 8:25Yes. To to becoming a singer to becoming
189. 8:28a dancer to being a mother
190. 8:30always to you change. I think that you
191. 8:33changed your country. You went from
192. 8:35America to Africa. Most of us, as I say,
193. 8:37stay put within confines. Now, has that
194. 8:41been because you've changed so much a
195. 8:45loss to your personal life in any way?
196. 8:48Oh, and rather it enriched
197. 8:51um I think that in a book of mine called
198. 8:54gather together in my name, I dealt with
199. 8:57this the house of prostitution. I was
200. 9:0018. I had no idea, but I was pretty I
201. 9:04had bravado. No bravery, just bravado. I
202. 9:08mean, it was all
203. 9:10superficial. And I don't see a
204. 9:12qualitative difference.
205. 9:14I still have a lot of
206. 9:16bravado and I'm trying to grow into
207. 9:19braveness, grow into courage. But I know
208. 9:24that I didn't come here to stay. I
209. 9:26didn't come to this earth to stay any
210. 9:28more than I came to London to stay. I'm
211. 9:31in process. So I do the best I can all
212. 9:34the time. And I say bye. I may weep and
213. 9:38nash my teeth and ring my hands, but I'm
214. 9:42gone. What's the restlessness about?
215. 9:45If it's restless. If it is restless,
216. 9:47it's just that I think that people need
217. 9:49a little more
218. 9:51restlessness. Why? Why do you assume?
219. 9:54The only promise that will not be
220. 9:56reneged upon is you will die. I mean, if
221. 9:59you know that that's a big bugaboo and
222. 10:01you're going to do that, you may as well
223. 10:03try to do some other wonderful things in
224. 10:05the meantime. You've been married three
225. 10:07times.
226. 10:10Sort of. Well, more or less. I mean,
227. 10:12maybe more. All right. More. Well, all
228. 10:14right. That's just you. Now, does that
229. 10:16does that mean that you have found love
230. 10:19rather difficult to to stick with? No, I
231. 10:23find
232. 10:24lovely. It's just that it too, you know,
233. 10:28it goes. I've just written a new song
234. 10:31for Roberta Flatt called And so it goes.
235. 10:35Love is a rush of wild wild wind. It
236. 10:37comes and it goes and so it goes.
237. 10:41So, I won't stay in a relationship if
238. 10:44there's no love there. It hurts though
239. 10:46when it Oh, it's awful. Gosh, it's
240. 10:48awful. I mean, it's it's as if it's a
241. 10:51beautiful aroma in the room and it's
242. 10:54been there. Maybe some incense or
243. 10:56perfume or fried potatoes and onions.
244. 10:59You know, those two are lovely. You
245. 11:02know, bacon and eggs or coffee and stuff
246. 11:04and then it's gone. You think, what did
247. 11:07I do wrong? It's always the each person
248. 11:11asks I do anyway. I ask what did what
249. 11:13did I not do? Where did I blow it? You
250. 11:17blame yourself. Well, I question myself.
251. 11:19Ah, there's a world. There's a
252. 11:21difference. Mhm. No, I don't blame
253. 11:23myself. I do not do that. I won't waste
254. 11:25any time with that. I do the best I can.
255. 11:28People can only do what they know to do.
256. 11:31That is all they can do.
257. 11:33Anybody. So, I do the best I can do. And
258. 11:37I look back and think, was that really
259. 11:39the best? Yeah. I didn't know anymore.
260. 11:42Well, there we are. Early on, when your
261. 11:45mother said, "Black people can't change
262. 11:48because white people won't change. Won't
263. 11:50change." My mother, when I
264. 11:53married, my mother was so disgusted with
265. 11:56me that I had married a white man. She
266. 11:59moved a 14 room house two days before
267. 12:03the wedding, 500 miles away. 14 rooms.
268. 12:09Well, not to be there. Not to Well, what
269. 12:12was her opinion then? She was I mean,
270. 12:15how can you I mean, who is he? Who are
271. 12:19his people? How can you? But then she
272. 12:23fell for him. He was a good husband. He
273. 12:25was a good father. She fell for him. So,
274. 12:28a few years later when I said to her,
275. 12:30"I'm leaving him." She said, "How can
276. 12:32you? How dare you? He's a good father.
277. 12:36They had made friends. But politically,
278. 12:38white people aren't very trustworthy as
279. 12:41far as blacks are concerned, are they?
280. 12:43Well, there have not been not not a lot
281. 12:45of them. Not in mass. And yet, you see,
282. 12:49h one has to see the whole truth all the
283. 12:52time and try to admit
284. 12:54it. Um, a country went to war over
285. 12:58slavery. There were white
286. 13:01men supported by white women who went to
287. 13:05war to free the slaves. I mean, there is
288. 13:09that that has to be said. There were
289. 13:11white men and women who risks and
290. 13:13sometimes lost their lives in the
291. 13:16abolition of the slave trade, not just
292. 13:18in the United States, but here in
293. 13:21Britain. That has to be seen. Most often
294. 13:25we've forgotten their names, but one has
295. 13:27to see it. I mean, you can't tell the a
296. 13:30piece of the truth any more than you can
297. 13:32be a little pregnant, you know. Yes. You
298. 13:35know, tell the truth. But you see, it it
299. 13:38was it was quite I mean, when you were a
300. 13:40black activist, you actually must have
301. 13:41thought a bit about this business of the
302. 13:44whites being the ones that have caused
303. 13:47such agony to you. Of course, I still
304. 13:49do.
305. 13:51Was it Malcolm X who said to you,
306. 13:53"Beware of the black middle class when
307. 13:55it emerges." Martin Luther King
308. 13:57Busumilind de M right the South African
309. 14:00freedom fighter told me that he said be
310. 14:04careful the black bgeoisi will more
311. 14:07often than not um betray you because
312. 14:11they think they have something to lose.
313. 14:13He said if you want support in any
314. 14:17action try to find
315. 14:20a which is a a
316. 14:23thug black thug. He will know he has
317. 14:27nothing to lose. If you're in danger, go
318. 14:29and get him. He will help you. I found
319. 14:33him to be absolutely right. Would you
320. 14:35call yourself black middle class?
321. 14:39You mean economically?
322. 14:41Certainly that. Oh, I'm not I would I'm
323. 14:44beyond I mean I have money so I'm not So
324. 14:47when he warned you about that, do you
325. 14:49feel as if somebody younger now is
326. 14:52thinking you are the black middle class
327. 14:55that I've got to be careful about?
328. 14:56Hardly mean somehow they they don't I
329. 14:59mean it's just that I have money, you
330. 15:02know, but that too if if a phone call
331. 15:04can tell you that what you thought you
332. 15:06have you don't have. It's not very
333. 15:08important. Um, I mean, anything can
334. 15:12happen. I know that. So, financially,
335. 15:16I'm I seem to be secure. Um, you've not
336. 15:20got middle class attitudes. Is that what
337. 15:21you're saying? That's it. And no young
338. 15:23black Americans and almost no young
339. 15:26white Americans would think of me as
340. 15:28middle class. I mean, I I I don't cling.
341. 15:31I don't say this is how you I want you
342. 15:33to identify me. All of us will all sit
343. 15:36here together very nicely. Oh, no, no,
344. 15:38no, no. I go to jail still last year as
345. 15:43you you know I still do the things and
346. 15:45take my chances. Thank you very much for
347. 15:48talking to me today Maya. Thank you,
348. 15:49Mus.