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Max Blumenthal and Ex-FBI Agent Coleen Rowley on the Nunes Memo — Transcript

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0:05it's the real news I'm Anne Mette
0:08the release of a controversial
0:10congressional memo has escalated the
0:12partisan fight over Russia gate the memo
0:16written by Republican allies of
0:18President Trump alleges abuses by the
0:21FBI and Justice Department in obtaining
0:24a surveillance warrant against former
0:26Trump aide Carter Page it contends that
0:29the steel dossier opposition research
0:31paid for by Democrats was the key force
0:34behind pages warrant at the White House
0:37today President Trump called the
0:39revelations a disgrace but I think it's
0:42a disgrace what's happening in our
0:44country and when you look at that and
0:46you see that and so many other things
0:48what's going on a lot of people should
0:51be ashamed of themselves and much worse
0:54than that so I sent it over to Congress
0:57and they will do what they're going to
0:58do whatever they do is find it was
1:01Declassified and let's see what happens
1:04but a lot of people should be ashamed
1:05thank you very much thank you very much
1:14you figured that one out
1:18that last comment there from president
1:20Trump you figure that one out
1:21was in response to a reporter asking if
1:24he still has confidence in Deputy
1:27Attorney General rod Rosenstein who
1:29helped sign off on the warrant against
1:31Carter page well joining me our two
1:33guests Coleen Rowley is a retired FBI
1:35special agent and max Blumenthal is a
1:38best-selling author and senior editor of
1:40the gray zone project welcome to you
1:43both
1:43Coleen I'll start with you so some
1:46disclaimers should be made here and that
1:48we have not seen the underlying
1:50intelligence behind this memo written by
1:53Republicans and because that until that
1:56underlying intelligence has come out
1:58that's part of the reason why Democrats
1:59say that Nunez and the Republicans who
2:02wrote this have been misinterpreting the
2:06actual reasons and the causes of the
2:09warrant against Paige and they're not
2:11presenting the full story so they're
2:13rendering of the facts and the memo is
2:15disputed by Democrats but so that said
2:18you've read the memo now what is your
2:20takeaway
2:21well the memo is short and therefore it
2:25was selective we should all welcome the
2:28Democrats to produce their you know to
2:30have their memo come out so that they
2:32can point out any additional information
2:34that might have been you know missed in
2:36this memo but with that said there were
2:38two or three things that were pretty
2:40shocking in the short memo that even I
2:43was not aware of from from reading a lot
2:45about this one was the serious conflict
2:48of interest that I think he was the
2:50Deputy Attorney General Bruce or had and
2:53he was he played an important role
2:56because he was the liaison both before
2:59and after British spy Christopher Steele
3:02was terminated as a source by the FBI
3:06Bruce Oreck was apparently the was a
3:09liaison between Steele and Bruce's wife
3:13was actually working working for fusion
3:15GPS which is the Clinton campaign group
3:21that was hired to do opposition research
3:24and hire
3:25Christiaan so I mean I don't really I
3:28don't think someone could even write a
3:30more serious conflict of interest than
3:32that
3:32and that obviously pervades this whole
3:35thing that's in the memo the other thing
3:37that I thought was was pretty damning
3:40was and if you remember back in the Iraq
3:43war
3:44remember when dick dick cheney had had
3:48scooter libby go to judith miller and
3:51and michael gordon at the new york times
3:53and plant this false story of aluminum
3:57tubes designed for enrichment they did
3:59this so that they could gin up the war
4:01with iraq and then after this story was
4:05planted on the front page of the New
4:06York Times then Cheney holds up the
4:09front page of the of the New York Times
4:11and says AHA look the New York Times
4:13confirms what I've been saying that
4:16similar story is embedded in this Faisal
4:20memo because what happened here is that
4:23Christopher Steele in October of 2016
4:27was leaking his story to a media got
4:32Michael Isikoff of Yahoo News to write a
4:35story about it doesn't tell the FBI they
4:39then go to the FISA Court and say look
4:41there's independent confirmation of
4:44Christopher's steel by Michael Isikoff
4:47it's on all fours with what happened and
4:50it mean really it should really cause
4:53people of both Republicans and Democrats
4:55to worry about this kind of misleading
4:58of the FISA Court any gain so just to
5:02clarify for anyone who's confused
5:04because there's so many names to keep
5:05track of fusion GPS is an opposition
5:07research firm it was first hired by a
5:10Republican opponents of Donald Trump and
5:12then hired by the Democratic National
5:14Committee paid for by a law firm working
5:18for the Hillary Clinton campaign to do
5:20the research that became the steel
5:23dossier these allegations about Donald
5:26Trump max Blumenthal your thoughts on
5:28the release of this memo
5:30well first off I mean just following up
5:35on Colleen's comments I think it's
5:37highly significant that Bruce or who was
5:40the DOJ official who was the liaison to
5:43Christopher Steele knew about the
5:47origins of the memo
5:49he knew that Christopher Steele at least
5:52according to the new news memo for to
5:54believe it
5:54Christopher Steele was determined to
5:57prevent Donald Trump from being elected
5:59president and that is what animated the
6:01contents of his dossier
6:03that's so-called dodgy dossier dossier
6:06is really a bricolage kind of
6:08compilation of the greatest media hits
6:11about Trump Russia collusion and have
6:13been mostly kind of discredited and so
6:16there's an effort right now by the
6:17Democrats and you know there are friends
6:21in the media if you want to look at this
6:23and kind of a non partisan way to
6:25distance the Russia investigation from
6:28the Steele memo because it's now been so
6:30discredited but if you actually look in
6:32the Nunez memo it's very clear that
6:35James Comey was distributing the Steele
6:40dossier to members of Congress and
6:41briefings Comey did this this is
6:45actually reported in April 2017 in CNN
6:48sourced to to US officials so it's not
6:51the first time we've heard about this
6:52James clapper former Director of
6:54National Intelligence was also
6:56furnishing the steel dossier to people
6:59in Congress I think before John McCain
7:02even obtained it this you know this is
7:05sort of scandalous now that the steel
7:07dossier has been mostly discredited and
7:10now we learn that the FISA if we're to
7:14believe the Nunez memo we learned that
7:15the FISA warrant on Carter page one of
7:20these obscure people we would have never
7:21heard about it otherwise who is riding
7:23on the Trump campaign pirate ship along
7:26with characters like George papadopolis
7:28we learned that the FISA warrant was
7:30obtained without any acknowledgement of
7:33the political origins of the steel
7:36dossier that it was funded by sources
7:40very close to the Clinton campaign like
7:41the perkins coie law firm
7:44you know so this is it's this seems like
7:46a case of FISA abuse and then beyond
7:50that the FISA courts are a rubber-stamp
7:52i mean we've we've known that for years
7:54they're part and parcel of this kind of
7:57national security apparatus that's been
7:59used for mass surveillance so it's it's
8:03significant that there was you know that
8:08any information had to even be withheld
8:09to obtain the FISA warrant on Carter
8:12page you know if FBI and Justice
8:15Department have done everything they can
8:17to keep the information in this memo
8:21from reaching the House Intelligence
8:23Committee it only got there it only got
8:26to Devin Nunez because of threats of
8:29contempt of Congress massive pressure on
8:32the FBI and the Justice Department the
8:34FBI is in a state of total chaos right
8:39now I mean we've learned about Andrew
8:42McCabe and his wife being basically
8:45given half a million dollars by Terry
8:47McAuliffe who's the former chair of the
8:49Democratic National Committee was the
8:51governor of Virginia at the time and
8:53this was in 2015 before you know there
8:55was a Russia probe but it just looks
8:58strange when McCain's wife is getting
8:59half a million dollars to run in a local
9:01election race in Virginia all of these
9:04figures are extremely compromised and
9:08now rod Rosenstein we learned that he
9:10signed off on the FISA memo so I don't
9:13know how he can continue to oversee this
9:14investigation I don't see how this is a
9:16nothing burger but we do need to see
9:18more information number one we need to
9:20see Andrew McCabe's testimony or the
9:23Senate Intelligence Committee
9:25Devon Nunez has claimed that McCabe
9:29stated that the steal dossier was the
9:32main reason why the FISA warrant was
9:34issued or Carter page Adam Adam Schiff
9:39has explicitly denied that and Democrats
9:41are now anonymously denying it to their
9:43friends in the media at the Daily Beast
9:45and elsewhere so we need to see that
9:46testimony to know who is lying
9:48number two the Democratic opposition
9:50memo should be released so the ultimate
9:52effect of this is that more information
9:55on the Russia probe will be released in
9:57a mall and
9:58favor of that is someone who considers
10:00the entire narrative of Trump Russia
10:02collusion to be a gigantic nothing
10:04burger right so it's the memos
10:07contention that Andrew McCabe of the
10:10Justice Department testified that
10:12director of FBI right what that they
10:17testified to Congress that in in
10:20testimony that we haven't gotten yet
10:22that it was the steel dossier that was
10:24the basis for the warrant on Carter page
10:26Democrats though say that that is
10:29misrepresenting McCabe's testimony which
10:31we don't have yet and but maybe we'll
10:33see like we saw the testimony of fusion
10:35GPS founder Glenn Simpson let me ask
10:37calling rally though about a point that
10:39max made about the FISA Court being a
10:41rubber stamp for the intelligence
10:43community because part of the Democrats
10:45counter-attack to this is that there's
10:47no way that the FISA Court would have
10:50approved this warrant of Carter page if
10:53it was just based on the steel dossier
10:55or other unconfirmed information that
10:59there must have been more because FISA
11:01courts don't approve warrants based on
11:04specious information your thoughts on
11:06that based on your experience as an FBI
11:08special agent well the FISA Court does
11:12have a track record of being a rubber
11:14stamp there's only a very few
11:17applications in history that they have
11:19turned down and when you say FISA Court
11:22it's a little misleading because it's
11:23really just one judge there are eleven
11:26judges but when you have an application
11:28you just go before one judge now if that
11:30judge is not it's not made aware of
11:34exculpatory information as apparently
11:37was the case in that first FISA
11:39application and and and the
11:42corroboration you can kind of you you
11:45can more than guess on this because even
11:48call me when he testified when he when
11:51he testifies in January I believe he
11:54says that there's been little
11:55verification of the steel dossier so he
11:59admits there was little verification he
12:01called it salacious he called it the
12:02salacious dossier and he said there was
12:05very little verification the the
12:07corroboration that they talked about
12:09this memo is what I just went through
12:11which was this Isikoff article that the
12:14FBI used to prop up steel in fact steel
12:19was the source of the Isikoff article so
12:21that of course is a horrible thing now
12:24we don't know what other if there was
12:26any other corroboration
12:27apparently Carter Page did take a trip
12:30to Russia in July so I'm probably that
12:33was in there so there was that bit of
12:35corroboration that he took a trip to
12:37Russia so I mean everyone pretty much
12:40not one thing that we don't know is in
12:42the meantime and especially after that
12:45first application how much additional
12:48investigation did the FBI do to try to
12:51corroborate or refute what was in this
12:55you know it was it was several pages
12:57long the steel dossier was long and it
12:59was kind of bizarre it seems like the
13:01FBI should have at least tried to then
13:03investigate that especially since they
13:06were going again before a FISA judge
13:08every 90 days they did this for a year
13:12it's not just one 90-day surveillance
13:15it's any even if you give the benefit of
13:17the doubt that first time in all
13:19fairness the FBI did not know that steel
13:21was the source of the Isikoff article so
13:24even if you give them the benefit of the
13:26doubt
13:26why did this continue for three more
13:29applications over an entire year till
13:31just apparently this would have gone up
13:33to October of 2017 just a few months a
13:37few months ago and that's where no one
13:39knows that you know maybe the Democrats
13:41will tell us what went on in that
13:43meantime who knows but that's there's a
13:45lot of questions about it well and
13:48Colleen also let's say steel was not
13:50michaelis Michael Isikoff source for his
13:52article why is even the intelligence
13:55community using a article and Yahoo News
13:59as evidence to justify a wiretap a
14:03surveillance warrant um well first of
14:06all I think steel admitted he was the
14:09source for that in some other testimony
14:11but secondly that corroboration even
14:15though it would seemingly be thin was
14:17was uh you would say probably all they
14:20had um they got this
14:22dossier you know in July something like
14:25that and essentially they ran with it
14:28they didn't you know maybe tried to
14:30verify some of it but they really acted
14:32quickly and again if if you're in a time
14:36crunch before an election you know in
14:39the weeks before the election the FBI
14:41again to kind of sympathize with this
14:44position that call me and others McCabe
14:46and others had they were investigating
14:48both presidential candidates or in
14:51Trump's case the Trump's campaign they
14:54were investigating both right in the
14:56weeks up to the election that's that's a
14:59really unprecedented and really a
15:01pressure I mean you can't imagine the
15:04kinds of pressures that these these
15:05officials would have had plus on the
15:08other hand they you know they're in a
15:10partisan situation themselves many of
15:12those officials had ties in to the
15:14Clinton campaign so I think they were
15:17just hurried and they they they they
15:20sought they used that article as
15:22corroboration it seems like all right
15:24and let me say about Carter page which
15:26is that even though even if Steele was a
15:29source for the surveillance warrant that
15:32was approved against him he had been on
15:35in the intelligence community's
15:36crosshairs before because he apparently
15:38was the target of an alleged Russian
15:40spying operation a few years prior
15:42because he was trying to do business in
15:44Russia and famously some allege Russian
15:47agents had called him an idiot because
15:49they just felt he was just someone they
15:51couldn't even recruit because he was so
15:54low level and so in their opinion
15:56clueless and also what's interesting
15:57about his role in the steel dossier is
16:00that it adds to this pattern you see in
16:03the steel dusty where everything it says
16:05is based on something that's already
16:06come out in public so in the steel
16:09dossier we only learned about we only
16:10learned about Carter page after his
16:12visit to Moscow in early July was
16:15publicly reported and it's probably for
16:17that same reason that we never see any
16:19mention of people like George
16:20papadopolis and Rob Goldstone who even
16:23though their role in this whole thing
16:24was already happening before it hadn't
16:27publicly come out yet which suggests to
16:29me that Steele and whoever his sources
16:30were if he had any we're simply reading
16:32the newspaper and basing their
16:35allegations
16:36off of that max Blumenthal picking up
16:39here your thoughts on on Carter Paige
16:42and and the kooky cast of characters
16:45that have pushed the scandal forward
16:47well let me let me pick up there I mean
16:49the reason that Jill Stein is under
16:51investigation by the Senate Intelligence
16:53Committee is because she was named in
16:55the steel dossier
16:56she was named in the steel dossier
16:58because there is a torrent of media
17:01reports including and you know partisan
17:03Pro Hillary Clinton blogs attacking Jill
17:06Stein for attending our teas Russia
17:09today's 10th anniversary celebration in
17:11Moscow and the steel dossier falsely
17:13accused Jill Stein of being having her
17:16her travel paid for by the Russian
17:20government in fact Jill Stein paid her
17:22own way never took a dime from the
17:25Russian government for anything even in
17:27her hotel room so that's just one small
17:30detail out of many in which the steel
17:32dossier is basing information off of
17:35already published media reports and
17:37getting it basically wrong and in the
17:40process potentially destroying someone's
17:42political career beyond that there is
17:46the you know Colleen mentioned that
17:48Steele had testified that he'd been you
17:51know the source to Michael Isikoff in
17:53October of 2016 I believe the FBI
17:57decided not to pay Christopher Steele to
18:01continue the investigation so we learned
18:04there and this hasn't been emphasized
18:06enough that FBI director James Comey
18:09well had intended to pick up the slack
18:11from the Clinton campaign and pay to
18:14continue a private intelligence
18:16operation to investigate the Donald the
18:20Donald Trump campaigns collusion with
18:22Russia I find that kind of extraordinary
18:25that a private intelligence operation
18:28with partisan origins is being brought
18:30in to investigate a presidential
18:33candidate
18:34by the FBI you know Comey has not really
18:38been held accountable for that in any
18:40way but you know it's clear that the the
18:43Steele dossier was central the steel
18:45dossier is also central to the reporting
18:47of David corn and Michael Isikoff and we
18:49learned in the
18:50Nunez memo that as you mentioned Michael
18:53Isikoff
18:53reporting for Yahoo where he was
18:55basically the stenographer for
18:57Christopher Steele and he's also
18:58collaborated with the FBI to you know
19:01attack Sputnik news and he's basically
19:03just a stenographer for the FBI and
19:06whatever other uh you know not not
19:09spooks are hanging around Isikoff is out
19:12there promoting a book that he's
19:14published with david korn it's already
19:17out I think and it basically concludes
19:20that Putin has attacked America
19:22destroyed our democracy and elected
19:24Donald Trump and I would love for them
19:26to come on the real news one of them are
19:28Isikoff and actually support that claim
19:30because as we saw with Luke Harding who
19:33published the first book on collusion in
19:35his interview with you
19:36he basically melted down because he
19:40couldn't provide one single concrete
19:41piece of evidence to support the
19:43collusion claim so Isikoff is running
19:46around right now today promoting his
19:49book because of the news around the
19:51Nunez memo you know I find that to be
19:53kind of scandalous too and a really sad
19:56commentary on the state of the beltway
19:58press corps I mean we have to remember
19:59that corn in Isikoff were the guys who
20:02went after the Bush administration's
20:06unmasking of former CIA agent Valerie
20:09flame and they're pushing of false WMD
20:11claims they went after an actual
20:13deception now they appear to be pushing
20:15a deception and an in tandem with the
20:18FBI and the intelligence community and
20:21the shadiest spooks around the book has
20:27not come out yet by David Icke it's on
20:31Amazon it's available for order and we
20:34do hope we can interview them about the
20:36claims max one quick follow-up and then
20:37we'll go to Colleen for final thoughts
20:39has still confirmed that he was a source
20:43for Isikoff or is that just a
20:45speculation based on who Steele had
20:48knowing that still spoke to the media in
20:50the fall of 2016
20:51no I believe that's confirmed isn't it
20:54Colleen it's in the memo in he's being
20:58sued I believe and he's had to testify
21:00in court okay right so the memo
21:03yeah the memo documents this right okay
21:06so Carter Paige is suing Isikoff for
21:09because of what's come out about him and
21:13that's a whole separate that's part of
21:16this long confusing saga call me rallies
21:18make one quick point Pauline drums in
21:21because you know I'm gonna I've always
21:23you know I've been as opposed to Donald
21:25Trump as anyone watching this I'm not
21:27defending Donald Trump this is not about
21:31that I think people should consider or
21:33watching this what might have happened
21:35if Bernie Sanders had gotten the
21:37Democratic nomination and this level of
21:40FISA abuse by the FBI had been applied
21:44to him and it likely would have this is
21:47about a larger principle of the
21:50manipulation of the political process by
21:53an unelected element that's been crudely
21:55referred to as the deep state I call it
21:57the national security state and has
21:59traditionally going back to the McCarthy
22:02era meddled in the democratic system and
22:07systematically D democratized this
22:10country so that's really one of the
22:12larger issues and the other issue is the
22:14revival of the Cold War which is
22:16extraordinarily dangerous this dossier
22:19and the Trump Russia collusion narrative
22:21has helped drive us relations with
22:24Russia to a new low so I think you know
22:28we have to look at the larger issues
22:29here and not get totally lost in the
22:32weeds calling rally
22:35we're thirty seconds but you're a
22:36veteran of the national security state
22:38that max talks about your final thoughts
22:40on this issue and your concerns looking
22:44ahead in the aftermath of the release of
22:46the release of this memo I couldn't
22:48agree more with what max just said about
22:51the what the important point here is
22:53which is that the principle of having a
22:57government that is responsible and to
23:01the public and also to our you know
23:03checks and balances we need probably
23:06independent investigation now because if
23:09the FBI is investigating itself its own
23:11people it's already a problem this
23:14Inspector General from the Department of
23:15Justice and
23:16even that is under the Department of
23:18Justice so I think people should read
23:21this and really ask questions find out
23:24how much the steel dossier played into
23:27these later fact these later
23:30intelligence assessments that said you
23:33know Russia's colluding that most people
23:35now just assume are factual they assume
23:37that that's facts and and there really
23:39was no information there and that steel
23:41dossier looks like it's what began this
23:44all so more we need to ask more
23:47questions we need an independent
23:48investigation and we we need more people
23:51to be concerned about the state of our
23:53country and try to get us back on the
23:55right track and hopefully we'll get
23:58that's to look at that Democratic
24:01rebuttal soon and also maybe see some of
24:03the underlying intelligence that the the
24:05Republican memo is supposedly based on
24:08Coleen Rowley retired FBI special agent
24:11and max Blumenthal best-selling author
24:13and editor of the gray zone project
24:15thank you and thank you for joining us
24:18on the real news

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