Matthew Cole - “Princes and Thieves” | The Daily Show — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00Oh my god, did you bring questions for
2. 0:01me?
3. 0:02>> I know, but I do have something out of
4. 0:03fairness before we begin. I want to read
5. 0:06uh Mr. Kushner's lawyer's denial. Part
6. 0:08of it before we start. No, I'm serious.
7. 0:11>> You want to read it before we start?
8. 0:13>> Yeah.
9. 0:14>> Okay.
10. 0:15>> Uh
11. 0:17Quote.
12. 0:17>> Is this a bit or is this real?
13. 0:20>> It's very real.
14. 0:21>> Okay. This is from his lawyer.
15. 0:23>> This is from his lawyer.
16. 0:24>> To you.
17. 0:25>> To me.
18. 0:26>> Okay. So, he has your email.
19. 0:29>> Mr. Kushner never accessed foreign
20. 0:31accounts and always followed all rules
21. 0:33and regulations and only pursued goals
22. 0:35that were in the best interest of the
23. 0:37United States as directed by the
24. 0:38President of the United States. So, I
25. 0:40just want to get that out of the way
26. 0:41because it's important No, it's
27. 0:43important to note that Kushner um
28. 0:45unequivocally and uh emphatically denies
29. 0:48everything in this book.
30. 0:50I mean, everything.
31. 0:52>> [laughter]
32. 0:55>> Well, am I in trouble NOW? WHAT THE
33. 0:58WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
34. 0:59>> I THINK YOU'RE GOOD.
35. 1:00>> [cheering]
36. 1:02>> He's denied Did he see the book before
37. 1:04it went to
38. 1:05Let's tell people what's in the book
39. 1:06first so that they have a context for
40. 1:09what they deny. It It is a wild yarn. It
41. 1:12is a wild story that is being told here.
42. 1:14We're all familiar with uh
43. 1:18Mohammed bin Salman and uh
44. 1:20other uh Arab leaders put a lot of money
45. 1:23into his affinity fund and he manages
46. 1:26that. It's about 5 billion, 6 billion
47. 1:27dollars. I think everybody's aware of
48. 1:29that and the conflict of interest that
49. 1:31that appears to to hold. This is a
50. 1:33difference This is not that.
51. 1:35>> Right. It's very distinct from that.
52. 1:37>> Okay. So, what is this?
53. 1:38>> What the book lays out largely is how
54. 1:42Jared Kushner ran essentially a shadow
55. 1:45foreign policy while he was in the White
56. 1:47House.
57. 1:47>> This is the first Trump term, not the
58. 1:49>> the first Trump term. This is as a
59. 1:50senior advisor to the President, as a
60. 1:52White House official. And it's what we
61. 1:56see is going back to the very beginning
62. 1:58of the Trump uh Trump's first term in
63. 2:002017 was he found common cause with MBZ
64. 2:05Mohammed bin Zayed who's the ruler
65. 2:08>> Yeah.
66. 2:08>> We all know MBS.
67. 2:11We didn't know there was an MBZ.
68. 2:14Are there Is there an MBA through Z? Is
69. 2:16it Do they
70. 2:18Mohammed bin Adam and then they just
71. 2:20keep going?
72. 2:21>> It's and it's can be difficult and it's
73. 2:23a bit of an alphabet soup but it's
74. 2:25important to understand.
75. 2:26>> Okay.
76. 2:26>> MBZ is the ruler of the UAE.
77. 2:29>> UAE, okay.
78. 2:29>> And I would say individually he's worth
79. 2:32somewhere it's estimated but like
80. 2:35literally a trillion dollars, okay? I
81. 2:36mean a trillion dollars. A very hard to
82. 2:39sort of put in real terms how much money
83. 2:41this man has. And as the ruler of this
84. 2:44tiny country he uses that money
85. 2:47>> Mhm.
86. 2:48>> more than anything else to buy friends
87. 2:51and frenemies, okay? And so
88. 2:53>> part of the story is how Kushner gets
89. 2:56embraced there's sort of a joint
90. 2:58embrace.
91. 2:58>> He's considered a moderate in the
92. 3:00region. He's somebody
93. 3:00>> Very moderate.
94. 3:01>> very much against extremism.
95. 3:03>> he's beloved in the West.
96. 3:04>> Beloved.
97. 3:04>> And and some of that is because he's he
98. 3:07does
99. 3:07>> dollars.
100. 3:08>> Well
101. 3:09I
102. 3:11I will tell you that one of the working
103. 3:12titles for this book early on was no one
104. 3:15can say no.
105. 3:16Because that's what it's like when
106. 3:17you're reporting on the people who um
107. 3:20around MBZ from any country they offer
108. 3:23money no one can say no. I mean just on
109. 3:25a I don't mean illegally I just mean
110. 3:27>> The minute I say no Phil Mickelson
111. 3:29couldn't say no. None of them. They they
112. 3:31give money to every They buy everything.
113. 3:33>> Right. And so what what you find is is
114. 3:35that Kushner and Trump came into office
115. 3:38and they wanted the great peace deal.
116. 3:40They wanted to solve the Middle East
117. 3:42peace
118. 3:43>> Right.
119. 3:45>> which was you know Israel versus
120. 3:47Palestine Israel and the Palestinians
121. 3:49and
122. 3:49>> still going on? I didn't finish the
123. 3:51book.
124. 3:51>> Well
125. 3:53the the the issue for them was is that
126. 3:55under America first policy Trump wasn't
127. 3:57going to spend any money he wanted to
128. 3:59pull troops out and what Kushner found
129. 4:01in MBZ and in MBS were two rulers who
130. 4:05were wealthy who were willing to pay for
131. 4:07it. They were going to bring the
132. 4:08financial side to try to get the
133. 4:10Palestinians to the table to accept a
134. 4:13deal that was favorable to Israel. And
135. 4:15that's sort of the second part of of
136. 4:17Kushner's, you know, background, which
137. 4:18is
138. 4:19he was close to Netanyahu and
139. 4:21politically
140. 4:22in terms of Israeli politics and
141. 4:24security, he's very to the right, right?
142. 4:26He's essentially a member of the Likud
143. 4:29party and I don't mean literally, but um
144. 4:31>> Right.
145. 4:31>> And it's important to remember that
146. 4:32>> And these two
147. 4:34a little shading on there is that MBS
148. 4:37and MBZ
149. 4:38are both upset with the Obama
150. 4:40administration because of the Iran deal
151. 4:43that they signed and also their support
152. 4:45of Arab Spring. Autocrats there not big
153. 4:48on freedom movements.
154. 4:49>> That's exactly it. And so you have this
155. 4:51these two sides coming together
156. 4:53perfectly aligned, which is the Gulf
157. 4:56Arabs were furious about the Iran deal.
158. 4:58They wanted it gone. They wanted to not
159. 5:01just thwart Iran, but they wanted to
160. 5:02hurt Iran. They were hoping to topple
161. 5:03Iran, right? That's
162. 5:04>> So they all agree with each other and
163. 5:06they all have
164. 5:07their their policy goals all aligned.
165. 5:10MBZ, Trump, Kushner.
166. 5:11>> Exactly. And Israel at the time. And
167. 5:13Israel, too. And so but what happens is
168. 5:16is that Kushner finds himself in a
169. 5:18position in the White House with no
170. 5:20statutory authority, right? He comes
171. 5:22into the office, just remind everyone,
172. 5:24he
173. 5:25had no experience. He gets the job
174. 5:28because he's the the son-in-law. He gets
175. 5:30He gets
176. 5:30>> Now you're pushing it.
177. 5:31>> He
178. 5:33He's given
179. 5:35perhaps the most consequential position
180. 5:37in terms of foreign policy in the
181. 5:38administration and because he's not been
182. 5:41vetted or confirmed by the Senate, he's
183. 5:43not a cabinet member, he essentially has
184. 5:45no oversight.
185. 5:46>> have security clearance for a while.
186. 5:47>> Well, for a while, right? And that's in
187. 5:48the book, too, because that's an
188. 5:49important issue. Um he was essentially
189. 5:52working just for the president, right?
190. 5:54Now, he will say, in fairness, he was
191. 5:57had rules and laws and regulations that
192. 5:59he followed. And it's true, but there
193. 6:01was essentially no oversight. And so you
194. 6:03have this someone who is let's just say
195. 6:06under qualified who gets into this
196. 6:08position and immediately
197. 6:11finds himself aligned with two of the
198. 6:13wealthiest men in the world who are
199. 6:16seeking US support and top cover for
200. 6:19remaking the Middle East in their favor.
201. 6:21And
202. 6:22>> [clears throat]
203. 6:22>> when that happens what we know is is
204. 6:25that Kush- and Kushner has said this,
205. 6:26right? His diplomacy, Trump's diplomacy,
206. 6:29is business. It's a real estate
207. 6:31negotiation, right? And so diplomacy
208. 6:33becomes very transactional. And at that
209. 6:36point, and we can get into more about
210. 6:38sort of what triggers some of this,
211. 6:39all of a sudden what appears are some
212. 6:41secret financial agreements and
213. 6:43arrangements between the three of them,
214. 6:45between MBS, MBZ, and Kushner.
215. 6:48So you get into
216. 6:49>> Secret financial agreements. If they all
217. 6:52agree, why are they're secret? If they
218. 6:54all agree on what to do,
219. 6:56what are the financial agreements about?
220. 6:57>> Well, that's
221. 6:59that's what we're getting into with the
222. 7:00with the with the accounts, right? So
223. 7:03what happens is is that there's a
224. 7:04there's an original idea. MBZ and MBS
225. 7:07float this idea to Kushner early in 2017
226. 7:11that there should be a 10 to 12
227. 7:14billion-dollar foreign policy fund. Not
228. 7:17like overt, essentially an idea that put
229. 7:19money together and we're going to
230. 7:20support Donald Trump's foreign policy
231. 7:22initiatives, right? And overtly. So for
232. 7:25instance, one of the things that I was
233. 7:26told was an example of an idea that they
234. 7:29had was they were going to fund the wall
235. 7:31down in Mexico. That was one idea. Like
236. 7:33they were going to spend the money to
237. 7:34build the wall for Trump. And the idea
238. 7:36is is that Trump could then run for
239. 7:38reelection and get a second term with
240. 7:40all of these
241. 7:41accomplishments. But for reasons that
242. 7:44are not totally clear, but in part
243. 7:45because it was very cumbersome, that
244. 7:47idea sort of falls away. And lo and
245. 7:49behold, in its replacement is a similar
246. 7:52fund or
247. 7:54pool of money, let's call it, for
248. 7:58Kushner to operate with and to remake
249. 8:01the region, okay? Because these two
250. 8:03guys, and MBZ,
251. 8:06>> the United States Treasury? I mean,
252. 8:08we're not Isn't that what we do
253. 8:10oversight?
254. 8:11Isn't that the story of Iraq
255. 8:14and Afghanistan? That we have a pool of
256. 8:16money, sort of like a slush fund. I mean
257. 8:18>> Well, that's our money. This is This is
258. 8:20specifically money from the UAE and
259. 8:23Saudi Arabia. And so, what what
260. 8:26the first Let's just call it the first
261. 8:28pool of money.
262. 8:29>> Okay.
263. 8:30>> And what I in the book call the alpha
264. 8:31account looks a lot like Iran-Contra.
265. 8:34Okay? This is a pool
266. 8:35>> Okay.
267. 8:35>> This is a pool of money that is meant to
268. 8:38remake the Middle East. A lot of the
269. 8:40money went to trying to support the war
270. 8:43at the time that the conflict in Libya,
271. 8:45okay? And overthrowing the government in
272. 8:47Libya. And there was a larger view, as
273. 8:49you laid out, you know, anti-Iranian,
274. 8:52fight back against Iran,
275. 8:54undo but the other part was to really
276. 8:56really undo the last of the Arab Spring.
277. 8:59And so, for instance, in Libya, where
278. 9:01where there had been a overthrow and
279. 9:03Gaddafi goes down, they want to put in a
280. 9:05want-to-be dictator, the next dictator
281. 9:07>> Right.
282. 9:07>> in Libya. And so, the support and the
283. 9:09money in some of that account starts to
284. 9:11flow into there. Um then you get into
285. 9:14This is where it gets
286. 9:16You know, what I like to say is, and I
287. 9:17think it's really important for um
288. 9:19readers to know, is that what Gerald
289. 9:22Jared Kushner found himself into is kind
290. 9:24of like a Game of Thrones-like scenario
291. 9:27with these three Arab rulers. You have
292. 9:30MBS and MBZ, Saudi Arabia and uh the
293. 9:33UAE, and then you have Qatar.
294. 9:34>> Sure.
295. 9:35>> And so
296. 9:36>> at odds with
297. 9:37>> And they're at odds. And so, here's
298. 9:38here's how it goes.
299. 9:40In June of 2017
300. 9:43>> Yeah.
301. 9:43>> MBS and MBZ team up and announce that
302. 9:45they're going to uh start a blockade
303. 9:47against Qatar, okay? They're sick of the
304. 9:50ruler of Qatar, they want him They're
305. 9:51sick of Al Jazeera, they want him to
306. 9:53stop funding the Muslim Brotherhood,
307. 9:55>> Cuz they feel like that generates unrest
308. 9:57amongst the hoi polloi that is
309. 9:59threatening their autocracies.
310. 10:01>> Exactly. In the end In the end, all of
311. 10:02this is just about power and
312. 10:04self-preservation. Right? In those
313. 10:05countries, the the ruling family is the
314. 10:08state. And so, preserving Saudi Arabia
315. 10:10really just means preserving uh MBS and
316. 10:13and likewise for MBZ. And so,
317. 10:16they start this blockade and, you know,
318. 10:18a lot of it was also that they couldn't
319. 10:20control the Qataris. Qataris have a lot
320. 10:22of money and they didn't want to listen
321. 10:24to
322. 10:24>> Qataris are funding Iranian proxies
323. 10:26through the region, which is Hamas and
324. 10:27Hezbollah and those things. And they're
325. 10:28they're hosting
326. 10:30>> Some of that is Yeah, absolutely. And
327. 10:32and so, there were, you know, they had
328. 10:33been at loggerheads, right? But they
329. 10:35also host a huge American base, yes,
330. 10:3910,000 troops. And so, they're all
331. 10:41they're all allies of the United States.
332. 10:43>> Um sure.
333. 10:44>> And so,
334. 10:46well, and that's one of the things I
335. 10:47mean, that's a central component of the
336. 10:49book is like, you know, do allies, you
337. 10:51know, try to use money to buy people to
338. 10:53influence the president of the United
339. 10:54States, you know, directly?
340. 10:56>> Apparently.
341. 10:57>> And and
342. 10:58so,
343. 10:59>> But why why all the subterfuge? I mean,
344. 11:00they do it out in the open. They give
345. 11:02them a $400 million plane.
346. 11:04>> Well, that's the that actually, what
347. 11:07this story is is the origin story. This
348. 11:09book is the origin story of how we got
349. 11:11there, okay? What I've done and I think
350. 11:13what the reporting is is it is lifting
351. 11:15the veil on 10 years of really deep dark
352. 11:19secrets that have been going on in the
353. 11:20Middle East with Kushner as a central
354. 11:23component of it, okay?
355. 11:24>> Now, how do you know that he is a
356. 11:26central other than he's part of the
357. 11:28diplomacy and he's trying to do the
358. 11:30Abraham Accords and he gets them done.
359. 11:32What is How do you know that he's part
360. 11:34of this through subterfuge and this this
361. 11:3710 or 12 billion-dollar fund?
362. 11:39>> Okay, well, first of all, let's just
363. 11:40point out the 10 or 12 billion-dollar
364. 11:42fund
365. 11:44disappeared, okay? It didn't it didn't
366. 11:45happen, okay? It didn't materialize. So,
367. 11:47what does
368. 11:47>> no fund.
369. 11:48>> No, wait. It starts with the idea starts
370. 11:50with
371. 11:51>> You're KILLING ME, SMALLS.
372. 11:53>> [laughter]
373. 11:55>> WE GO FROM 10 to 12 and it doesn't work
374. 11:58out to here's two billion and we're
375. 12:00going to split it up into two pots,
376. 12:02okay? And that becomes the secret bank
377. 12:04accounts, okay? The alpha account and
378. 12:06the beta account. And those accounts
379. 12:09>> Roughly, okay?
380. 12:10One is held in the UAE and one is held
381. 12:13in Israel, okay? And
382. 12:14>> literally held like Abu Dhabi Bank, Bank
383. 12:17of Israel.
384. 12:18>> Yeah,
385. 12:19Central Bank of Israel and and and
386. 12:22the First Abu Dhabi Bank.
387. 12:23>> Sure. You don't want to be in the
388. 12:24second. They they yeah.
389. 12:26>> In the UAE. And one of those accounts,
390. 12:28as I said, it's like Iran-Contra. That's
391. 12:30money that goes to Libyan dictator,
392. 12:33the founder of Blackwater Eric Prince.
393. 12:37It went to a Cuban hitman who worked for
394. 12:39both the CIA and the Mossad. Um
395. 12:42>> What is their role in this?
396. 12:43>> Well, they are taking money and moving
397. 12:46weapons and trying to arm Haftar in
398. 12:48Libya, okay? And so and that's why I'm
399. 12:51saying that the the what the fund looks
400. 12:53like is a foreign policy fund that the
401. 12:56UAE is operating and that Jared is just
402. 12:59by having access to the account has
403. 13:02embraced, right? Because what this is
404. 13:03really all about is
405. 13:04>> He has access to the account.
406. 13:06>> Yes, he has access to
407. 13:08Well, he was a signatory on the account
408. 13:10according to my sources. And so
409. 13:13>> He's a signatory.
410. 13:15>> Let
411. 13:16>> Okay, may I? Or you want to
412. 13:18>> No, no, go ahead.
413. 13:21>> I'm going to assume these guys are
414. 13:22sophisticated
415. 13:24and understand the laws of
416. 13:27cryptocurrency and money laundering and
417. 13:30all these other issues.
418. 13:33That seems very above board
419. 13:37for a way to launder a slush fund
420. 13:41through hitman and strongmen. Like
421. 13:45we do that through the CIA anyway. So
422. 13:49why I don't understand why
423. 13:51>> Actually, so you've hit exactly it. The
424. 13:52the UAE has been obsessed Mohammed bin
425. 13:55Zayed has been obsessed essentially with
426. 13:57replicating CIA covert CIA-like covert
427. 14:01operations around the Middle East and
428. 14:04North Africa. For years they've been
429. 14:05doing it. It's a very murderous regime.
430. 14:08And so what they did was they put money
431. 14:10into a bank account controlled by a
432. 14:12charity, a domestic Emirati charity that
433. 14:14the UAE uses for covert arms shipments.
434. 14:18Okay? That's the Wait.
435. 14:19>> His name is on it, Jared.
436. 14:21>> No, I didn't say his name was on it. I
437. 14:22said he was a signatory, which meant it
438. 14:24gave him access to it. And we know that
439. 14:26he had access to it because when his
440. 14:28phone was hacked in 2017 by the Dutch
441. 14:31intelligence service, they saw his
442. 14:35access to the account on his screenshots
443. 14:37on his on his phone.
444. 14:38>> intelligence services.
445. 14:40>> Yeah. It's a wild story. No question.
446. 14:44>> Wait. Wait. Wait.
447. 14:48>> And just to put it out there, the
448. 14:50hacking of his phone is actually in in
449. 14:52everything that's in here is a
450. 14:54>> hacked Jared Kushner's phone. They are
451. 14:57NATO allies.
452. 14:59>> They had an operation. They got
453. 15:02themselves into access into a Russian
454. 15:04GRU server in 2017.
455. 15:07When they get into the server
456. 15:09>> Dutch
457. 15:09>> Yes.
458. 15:10They find that the Russians have gotten
459. 15:13into Jared's phone. And it set off alarm
460. 15:15bells.
461. 15:16>> The Russians hacked Jared's phone.
462. 15:18>> Yes. What the hell is going on here?
463. 15:20>> Thank you.
464. 15:21>> Okay.
465. 15:23They follow that up by deciding that
466. 15:25they also want to get into Jared's
467. 15:27phone. And when they get into Jared's
468. 15:29phone
469. 15:32>> I'm sure it's just dick pics. What what
470. 15:33was I I DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND. LIKE
471. 15:34WHAT?
472. 15:36SO, the
473. 15:38You you Okay.
474. 15:40>> So, just let me follow me here.
475. 15:42>> Okay.
476. 15:42>> So,
477. 15:44after the Dutch access the phone, what
478. 15:46they start to see are they see an access
479. 15:49to an account in Abu Dhabi, at the First
480. 15:50Abu Dhabi Bank, okay? And on Jared's
481. 15:53phone. Now, they can't control his
482. 15:54phone. They can only see the phone when
483. 15:56he's using it, okay? So, it's like
484. 15:57screenshots. And
485. 15:59>> literally like Venmoing a guy in Libya.
486. 16:02>> No. What what they see is an account,
487. 16:05bank account. And that bank account
488. 16:06starts to to show money flows in from a
489. 16:08bank from Azerbaijan, okay? And they
490. 16:11have in from Azerbaijan into the UAE.
491. 16:14And the Dutch are looking at it going,
492. 16:16"What is this?" And then the money
493. 16:18starts to pool there and starts to go
494. 16:20out. And the first, for instance, the
495. 16:22first transfer out from that account
496. 16:23went to Erik Prince, the founder of
497. 16:25Blackwater. The second one went to
498. 16:27Khalifa Haftar in Libya.
499. 16:29>> You've seen the statements. You've seen
500. 16:31bank statements.
501. 16:32>> I'm not going to get into my sourcing.
502. 16:34As a reminder,
503. 16:36I just as a reminder, now this is
504. 16:37serious. Last year I wrote a story uh
505. 16:40with a colleague for the New York Times
506. 16:42about a secret uh SEAL Team Six
507. 16:45commander raid in North Korea that
508. 16:47failed.
509. 16:48My uh
510. 16:49>> sued.
511. 16:50>> reward
512. 16:50>> Yes.
513. 16:51>> is to receive a subpoena to testify
514. 16:53before a grand jury.
515. 16:54>> phone's been hacked by UAE as well.
516. 16:56>> And my phone has been hacked by the UAE.
517. 16:58So,
518. 16:59protecting my sources is critical.
519. 17:01>> Understood.
520. 17:02Can you, without giving up sources, just
521. 17:05say
522. 17:07you have witnessed this and it's not
523. 17:10just verbal hearsay like I know a guy in
524. 17:13the Dutch intelligence
525. 17:14>> I can't I can't I can't say anything. I
526. 17:16can't say anything beyond what as I have
527. 17:18it in the book, which is
528. 17:19>> But when they're going to like they're
529. 17:21going to sue you, you're going to have
530. 17:23to say something, no?
531. 17:25>> Well, I mean, I think the issue is I
532. 17:27can't speak to whether they're going to
533. 17:28sue me or not. I
534. 17:30listen to their denials, I took them in,
535. 17:32I I went back to some of my sources, and
536. 17:34I'm very confident that I have the story
537. 17:36right. And so, if that comes, I'll deal
538. 17:39with it when it comes.
539. 17:40>> Right.
540. 17:41>> This is a story that the public needs to
541. 17:44understand and see and hear to figure
542. 17:46out how we went from 2017 when Donald
543. 17:50Trump went into office to how we ended
544. 17:52up in a war in Iran because it is the
545. 17:54same arc and it starts there in 2016
546. 17:57>> Right.
547. 17:58>> when Jared Kushner meets privately and
548. 18:00secretly at the time in uh Manhattan's
549. 18:03in the uh Four Seasons in Manhattan with
550. 18:06MBZ
551. 18:06>> Right.
552. 18:07>> because they had they started a
553. 18:08bromance. And that bromance
554. 18:11is about
555. 18:12>> That's so like everything is so spivy
556. 18:14spy and then you end with romance. Come
557. 18:16on.
558. 18:17>> Look.
559. 18:19This is really serious stuff.
560. 18:21>> It is.
561. 18:22>> But the reality is is right
562. 18:24>> Let me let me just push back for a
563. 18:26moment. So
564. 18:27Your theory of the case makes total
565. 18:30sense to me.
566. 18:32But it makes total sense to me in the
567. 18:34world of things we already know.
568. 18:37MBZ and MBS, they don't like Iran.
569. 18:41Netanyahu doesn't like Iran. They're
570. 18:43working together across purposes. They
571. 18:45don't really seem to care about the
572. 18:48Palestinians. Everyone seems very
573. 18:50willing to sell them out. They have
574. 18:53people in the Trump administration who
575. 18:55are fellow travelers in that larger
576. 18:58project, protecting Israel,
577. 19:01weakening Iran, and strengthening the
578. 19:03autocracies that are in the Middle East.
579. 19:06There are giant funds that don't seem to
580. 19:08make any sense that Kushner
581. 19:11Whit Covenant they go through and they
582. 19:12do the diplomacy they like all of this
583. 19:15makes sense with things that we already
584. 19:18know.
585. 19:19But
586. 19:20it feels like introducing all the
587. 19:23subterfuge
588. 19:25with stories that sound harder to wrap
589. 19:28your head around. Like the Dutch hacked
590. 19:32Jared Kushner and didn't tell the
591. 19:35Americans or the Dutch found out that
592. 19:38the Russians hacked Jared Kushner and
593. 19:40didn't tell the Americans.
594. 19:42>> would the Dutch tell the Americans that
595. 19:44they hacked the president's son-in-law's
596. 19:46phone?
597. 19:47If they made that decision
598. 19:49>> allies.
599. 19:50>> Yeah, but they at the time they were
600. 19:51terrified as were most of the NATO
601. 19:53allies most people in NATO most
602. 19:56countries in NATO that Trump was a
603. 19:58Russian
604. 19:59spy, right? That he was a set up. And so
605. 20:01when they see money flowing from
606. 20:02Azerbaijan, they have this question.
607. 20:04>> they talk to the Biden administration in
608. 20:062020?
609. 20:08>> I mean, intelligence agencies spy on
610. 20:10countries all that's literally what they
611. 20:12do.
612. 20:13>> Okay.
613. 20:13>> Okay.
614. 20:14>> But
615. 20:15>> And they don't talk about it.
616. 20:16>> But this is a big megillah. And you're
617. 20:19asking us to go with you on a big
618. 20:20megillah. Not for a story that seems
619. 20:22implausible in the sense that money
620. 20:25laundering is rife, but like it does
621. 20:28beggar belief when you think like why
622. 20:30wouldn't they do this through crypto or
623. 20:32that you can't trace like
624. 20:33signatories through the First Bank of
625. 20:35Abu Dhabi and the Central Bank of Israel
626. 20:37seem crazy.
627. 20:38>> first of all, you've read the book,
628. 20:39right? I have. Okay. Did you enjoy it? I
629. 20:42mean
630. 20:42>> I did.
631. 20:42>> Would you recommend
632. 20:45Would you recommend it to others?
633. 20:48>> I don't think most people are readers.
634. 20:51>> Okay. There's not much of a
635. 20:52>> most people are waiting for the book.
636. 20:54>> Okay.
637. 20:54>> No, it is
638. 20:56It was a frustrating read if I'm being
639. 20:58honest.
640. 20:59>> Okay.
641. 20:59>> It's a story that
642. 21:02I believe on theory, but I felt like
643. 21:08Oh, this is going to sound crazy.
644. 21:10It felt a little like religion. I get
645. 21:13the general
646. 21:15like there might be something in the sky
647. 21:17that's bigger than all of us, but once
648. 21:19you get down to like and he's a
649. 21:20carpenter, then I'm like, "Okay."
650. 21:23Um
651. 21:25And I think that for me
652. 21:27was part of the problem is
653. 21:29when you get into some of the specifics,
654. 21:31they raise so many questions that I
655. 21:34began to question the entire narrative
656. 21:37and if and if and if I can question the
657. 21:40specifics,
658. 21:41it felt like it undercut the larger
659. 21:44story.
660. 21:45>> Okay, and that's fair and that's what I
661. 21:47want our people is people to read it and
662. 21:48come up come up with their own decision
663. 21:50or their own sense of what they think.
664. 21:52I'm very confident that what is in there
665. 21:54I'm sitting here very confident that
666. 21:55what is in there is true and I fully
667. 21:58behind it and the the real issue is I
668. 22:01think is that one, all of this stuff is
669. 22:04complicated. Okay? You have
670. 22:07I mean not even get into the breakup
671. 22:10between MBZ and MBS, right? Because they
672. 22:12were they had a bromance and then they
673. 22:14broke up and right now they're very
674. 22:16broken up, right? And so and and I was
675. 22:19really
676. 22:20>> [laughter]
677. 22:21>> rooting for them.
678. 22:24>> And so then they each individually are
679. 22:27trying to wrap their arm around Kushner
680. 22:29and take him away from the other. I
681. 22:31mean, there's a there's a whole element
682. 22:33of that, right? And so, it's not easy
683. 22:35stuff. It's It's you know, it's
684. 22:37journalism. And not journalism isn't
685. 22:40always you know, investigative
686. 22:41journalism in particular doesn't always
687. 22:43have the perfect ending. It has you
688. 22:45know, what's frustrating, I think,
689. 22:47partly is is that when you're talking
690. 22:49about foreign policy and all of these
691. 22:52powerful people who are interested in
692. 22:55preserving their own ends, right? And
693. 22:57achieving their own ends is they break
694. 22:59apart, they come together. You know,
695. 23:01it's not dissimilar. It's like watching
696. 23:03Trump and Netanyahu, right? When they
697. 23:04need each other, they're together. When
698. 23:06they when then they hate each other and
699. 23:07they're apart, right? So, that is the
700. 23:10collection here. But, there was a a
701. 23:12central element to it, which were were
702. 23:14these secret financial transactions and
703. 23:16deals between MBZ, MBS, and Kushner.
704. 23:19>> Right.
705. 23:20But, ultimately for the veracity of it,
706. 23:24people are going to need more than like,
707. 23:26take my word for it, I believe it. That
708. 23:28That's my only point and that
709. 23:31within that, that's going to it's going
710. 23:33to ultimately end up being
711. 23:35a tough sell if you, for reasons that
712. 23:38may seem
713. 23:39um
714. 23:40very reasonable, to protect your
715. 23:42sources. And you've been burned in this
716. 23:43area before.
717. 23:45It It would make sense. I'm just
718. 23:47concerned that like, this this book's a
719. 23:49big swing.
720. 23:51>> Sure.
721. 23:51>> Like, no question.
722. 23:52>> I'm
723. 23:53I I would say two things. Number one, I
724. 23:55think we are in a place right now in
725. 23:57this country where most people can see
726. 24:00there's something wrong, okay? Okay.
727. 24:03>> [laughter]
728. 24:05>> This book for me started 5 years ago. I
729. 24:08pulled a thread. I followed that thread
730. 24:11for 5 years.
731. 24:12>> But, are you worried that this is the
732. 24:15Steele dossier? That this is Christopher
733. 24:18Steele selling a pee tape and you go on
734. 24:20shows and go, there's a pee tape.
735. 24:23>> No.
736. 24:23>> And and that puts you in a position. You
737. 24:25don't You don't worry hear that.
738. 24:27>> No. no, I think that, you know, look,
739. 24:29journalism is imperfect, right? It's,
740. 24:31you know, often described as the first
741. 24:33draft of history. And just because I
742. 24:35don't have, you know, the book doesn't
743. 24:37have every answer to every question or
744. 24:39or it prompts more questions, to me,
745. 24:41that's the point.
746. 24:43>> Okay.
747. 24:43>> purpose, right? We have to understand
748. 24:45>> an invitation.
749. 24:46>> what the hell happened, and let's figure
750. 24:48out What I'm bringing is the tip of the
751. 24:50iceberg in terms of Trump's corruption,
752. 24:53okay? The Trump administration's
753. 24:54corruption that started in the first
754. 24:56administration. Okay?
755. 24:57>> Mhm.
756. 24:58>> And I don't know how big it is beneath
757. 25:00the surface, but I know it's a lot
758. 25:01bigger than the tip. And so, I'm I'm
759. 25:03pushing it there.
760. 25:07>> The
761. 25:08The The book is called It's a Lot Bigger
762. 25:11Than the Tip.
763. 25:13>> [applause]
764. 25:14>> Uh it's it's it's it's It is a great
765. 25:17invitation, and I do urge people to read
766. 25:18it. It is a fascinating story. It it
767. 25:21certainly corroborates a worldview that
768. 25:24I think most people believe is the
769. 25:27underbelly of international intrigue.
770. 25:30And we certainly know stories of uh
771. 25:33America feeding cash to warlords and
772. 25:37manipulating governments. It It's not
773. 25:39like anything is unfamiliar.
774. 25:41>> in reverse.
775. 25:43>> In In In reverse, but but but but
776. 25:46obviously, too. I'm certainly not the
777. 25:47only one. Like, I'm on team you. And so,
778. 25:51for me to go like, "Mhm."
779. 25:53is the only thing I'm saying. And and I
780. 25:55and I hope that obviously, you know I
781. 25:56>> I respect that.
782. 25:57>> Oh.
783. 25:57>> And I appreciate you having me.
784. 26:00>> You know what? Wait.
785. 26:02>> [applause]
786. 26:02>> Hold on.
787. 26:05Are we having a bromance?
788. 26:08The book is Prince Andrew,
789. 26:09Matthew Cole.
790. 26:19>> [music]