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Marty Tankleff - Wrongfully Convicted & Exonerrated — Transcript

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0:00welcome I want to welcome everyone to
0:02our senior citizen lecture series I'm
0:05really happy today we have two very
0:07special guests we have Marty Tankleff
0:10who falsely confessed to murdering his
0:13own parents and spent 17 years in prison
0:16he's been exonerated and he is now an
0:19attorney and he's going to talk about
0:21his life and experience and his actual
0:23attorney
0:24Amy Marian who is an amazing Long Island
0:27based attorney who also does a lot of
0:29work throughout the country and in New
0:30York City is here with him and she's
0:33going to talk about the problems of
0:35wrongful convictions and false
0:37confessions and some of her work in this
0:39area she's really a groundbreaking
0:41attorney and it's such an honor the
0:42first time Marty spoke to students at
0:45st. Francis College she was in Nassau
0:47County Jail and he called them before he
0:49was exonerated and we had one
0:51speakerphone I don't know if you
0:53remember it was in about 2006 it was
0:552006 because yeah yeah it was very very
0:58early in my teaching career here and I
1:00said to the students you have any
1:01questions for Marty he's in he's in jail
1:03he's been in jail for 16 years he's been
1:06falsely accused of murdering his own
1:08parents and the students asked him well
1:11if you do get out what meal do you want
1:13to have what food you want to eat all
1:15the questions were about food so we had
1:17a really good conversation but hopefully
1:19some of the questions today will be more
1:20substance and about some other issues
1:22but that's awesome good food story which
1:25okay I'll tell you very quickly Amy's
1:28partner Bruce was one of the lawyers at
1:29work tonight for 40 years not maybe a
1:32week or two
1:33go into a local place and they were duck
1:36tacos and mango ice tea and he just
1:38looked at me he goes how many people
1:41serve 70 nephews imprisonment or duck
1:43tacos and vandalized me and then when
1:45they're first meals out what happened a
1:46burger and fries and Bruce has learned
1:49that her grandfather just on me because
1:52it wasn't duck tacos and mango iced tea
1:58so that's interesting and I also want to
2:01point out that we have two documentary
2:03filmmakers here they're making a
2:04documentary about Marty and his
2:06transition from prison to law school to
2:10lawyer so they're taping here so that's
2:13why we have three cameras going in case
2:14anybody is curious about that so we're
2:17so honored to have you guys here today
2:18and we can't wait to see the documentary
2:20and Thank You Marty and thank you Amy so
2:22much I just want to say thank you Emily
2:29because you do great work and it's so
2:31great that you spread the word about
2:33what we all do different and at
2:36different areas of social justice and
2:38criminal justice and so we appreciate
2:40the opportunity to be here to speak with
2:43you all I'm the boring part of the
2:45lecture because I'm not the real person
2:47who spent the time in jail but I will
2:50say that soon after morning was released
2:54from jail my partner Bruce Marquette who
2:56is one of the attorneys on one of the
2:59attorneys who actually was responsible
3:01for getting math Morty out of jail
3:04besides not besides but Marty himself
3:06was his own best advocate which is just
3:08the most important thing is the person
3:11who's actually incarcerated has to rely
3:14on themselves to be in a not only in a
3:17jail setting and the debilitation on
3:19your life as somebody who now be
3:22the prisoner but also somebody who has
3:25to advocate for themselves because
3:27though could you hear me all no that is
3:33so rare because I just have such a loud
3:36voice sorry yeah the judges tell me to
3:45Louis voiceless Marian so you have to
3:47rely on yourself and so Marty really was
3:49his own best advocate as many exonerees
3:51are because they all they do is just
3:54file their appeals file there for 40 or
3:57for 40 is a legal vehicle by which you
4:00can set aside a conviction that's
4:02different from the appeal so for a
4:05little quick learning the appeal process
4:07goes up straight the 440 goes sideways
4:11and what I mean by that is that the the
4:13appeal process is based on the record
4:16below so if you have a trial okay you
4:19have let's say you have a trial for the
4:21homicide as Margie - Thomas out of his
4:23parents the appeal is based on
4:25everything that was in court the record
4:28below is what was presented to the court
4:30below anything outside of the record any
4:33evidence that wasn't introduced at the
4:35trial is not a basis for an appeal if
4:39you want to introduce any evidence that
4:41was outside of the record in other words
4:44there was an there was a witness an
4:46alibi witness who said that Marty or the
4:50individual defendant the criminal
4:52defendant was with me the entire time
4:53when the when the homicide was alleged
4:55to have taken place that is brought by
4:59way of a 440 of the Criminal Procedure
5:02law in the state of New York and then
5:05there are other areas by which you bring
5:07what's called a habeas corpus petition
5:08when you get up to the federal level but
5:10first you have to exhaust your state
5:12remedies and then you could go over to
5:14the the federal I actually have a few
5:16slides on this so let me just go quickly
5:20Barry Scheck
5:21and Peter Neufeld who was also Marty's
5:24attorneys on his cases founded the
5:26Innocence Project close to two decades
5:28ago I don't have the handouts on these
5:30I'm sorry but Emily could contact me and
5:32then we could email these to all of you
5:35and this just shows the network of you
5:37know 65 legal organizations
5:39approximately now and he keeps growing
5:40every day I'm gonna go through these
5:42quickly we don't really need to go
5:43through all of these but this piece is
5:47actually important to me and what I like
5:49to grab from this the most challenging
5:53aspect of the innocence narrative
5:55remains truly comprehending the Unreal
5:57dream of being wrong won't leak
5:59convicted and imprisoned it is a fear
6:01that drills into the marrow of our
6:03humanity a nightmare from which each of
6:05the exonerated is still trying to awake
6:08Marty just told me when we were having
6:11coffee before we got here that he's been
6:12out 10 years and and I said to him how
6:15does that you know what does that feel
6:16like and what did you say you didn't
6:19really know what does it feel like 10
6:20years out I mean it's an odd thing it's
6:23hard to fathom it but you know what do
6:27you think of moria successes and he said
6:29if you look at Marty's accomplished in
6:31ten years you got a bachelor's degree
6:32got a law degree took the bar exam
6:36married adopted a Chinese smoker at the
6:39NYPD Georgetown University John Jay
6:42College Oh Colonel Joseph st. Francis
6:45Law School's has testified before the
6:47New York State Assembly in New York
6:49State Senate the City Council
6:52all ten years out this is disgusting
6:55it's been ten years out hopefully next
6:57hopefully next semester I'll be teaching
7:00at Oral Law School and Georgetown and
7:03that's all kind of in your window and
7:09just keep doing what you're doing that's
7:11right he really is and it's actually
7:14amazing to me we have another employee
7:18in our office Don Taylor who's also in
7:20exoneree
7:21and what's always amazing to me and it's
7:24probably one of the reasons why you guys
7:26are out is that your sense of just hope
7:32and and Drive and not allowing
7:35themselves to be beaten down by really
7:39what is the complete degradation of
7:41humanity and morality to allow these
7:43things to happen in our civilized so
7:46so-called civilized
7:48society there's a typo problem
7:53civilization struggled with with the
7:55problem of guilt and innocence
7:56throughout history and in early days
7:59guilt was determined by one or more
8:01deities relieving humans of that burden
8:04of uncertainty though even a God biess
8:06justice system had the fundamental
8:07problem of interpretation of ambiguous
8:10diving messages one you once human
8:13kindness assume the role of judge and
8:15jurors errors were inevitable and in our
8:17legal system the principles are based on
8:20recognize this William Blackstone's
8:22principle it is better than ten guilty
8:23persons escaped then one innocent person
8:26suffer prevailed with a presumption of
8:28innocence and a standard of evidence of
8:30guilt beyond a reasonable doubt but like
8:34so many things in our society their
8:36problems arose right and many times
8:39people and still to this day could not
8:43understand why somebody would say
8:45they're guilty why somebody would give a
8:48confession it's an odd thing or why
8:52individuals would would not be guilty if
8:57the police arrested them right so we
8:59still live in that society scholars have
9:04cast doubt on many supposed pillars of
9:06justice such as studies discrediting
9:08eyewitness testimony for decades
9:10innocent men are never convicted don't
9:12worry about it this was Sandra Justice
9:15Sandra Day O'Connor who also said you
9:19know what we don't have the best system
9:20here in the United States in our
9:22democracy but it's better than the
9:25alternative being the fascist system or
9:27a system that presumes innocent
9:29individuals to be guilty and then you
9:31have to prove your innocence I'm here to
9:33tell you that even though there is a
9:35presumption of innocence in our legal
9:37system [ __ ] as a criminal defense
9:39attorney for close to 30 years you have
9:42to prove your innocence and that still
9:45exists and that's the problem
9:47and so when I'm doing a criminal trial
9:50which I do most of the civil litigation
9:53now for my firm but I'm born and raised
9:55in the New York City legal aid system as
9:57a criminal defense attorney and born and
10:00raised as a lawyer
10:01not born and raised as that but what is
10:05really so essential and this is what I
10:07tell jurors to this day is that you're
10:09sitting there at the table right the
10:11defense table and you asked jurors
10:13prospective jurors when you do you have
10:15idea then you say you know what do you
10:18think right now what would your verdict
10:20be and they say I don't know no wrong
10:24answer presumption of innocence not
10:26guilty that's what your verdict would be
10:28but then I say to them you're asking
10:31regular individuals you know non lawyers
10:34and even lawyers who don't practice
10:36criminal defense don't understand this
10:38and don't get this you're asking
10:39individuals just to get to that place
10:43when what are we programmed to think
10:46well first of all you walk into a
10:48courtroom and the only person who's
10:51called the defendant right the the
10:55person not even given a name is the
10:57defendant right and the only person
11:02sometimes that individual is surrounded
11:04by court officers or u.s. marshals great
11:06so that's the only person whose Liberty
11:08is not you know it doesn't have their
11:11Liberty and what do we read about in the
11:14papers they got the guy right they've
11:17been looking for the guy looking for the
11:19you know the serial rapist serial
11:24burglar looking for the guy looking for
11:26the guy how many people have ever
11:28stopped and said I don't think they got
11:31the right guy when you see it on the
11:33news and you're like they got the guy
11:34right and the guys running around your
11:36neighborhood and you know really causing
11:39harm to your family and your kids and
11:41your neighbors how many people go I
11:42don't think that's the right guy nobody
11:45says that nobody says it because we are
11:47programmed to think that the cops go out
11:49there they do their job they got the guy
11:51and we're all happy as the citizens
11:53outside on the street and then there's
11:56this you know mind-boggling not even a
12:00juxtaposition but a complete 180 you
12:03walk into the courtroom and you're like
12:04the defendant so why would any of us say
12:09there's a presumption of innocence why
12:10would any of us think that the
12:12presumption of innocence still stands
12:15right because we don't question it
12:17there's a difference between you get in
12:18the courtroom and there's proof beyond a
12:19reasonable doubt and why is it proof
12:21beyond a reasonable doubt it's not
12:23technicalities as people say it's damn
12:26evidence because individuals like Marty
12:30Tankleff have been incarcerated and it
12:32was only once DNA evidence came about
12:36that these positions
12:39I mean Churchill reiterated the
12:41sentiment when he stayed in on November
12:4211 1947 in the House of Commons that
12:45democracy is the worst form of
12:47government except for all others so I
12:52recently spoke to a group of about 60
12:55people and I asked him a question very
12:56simple question I said if someone
12:59committed a murder in your neighborhood
13:01and the police said we've arrested
13:02somebody from the murder how many people
13:04in the room would question did we arrest
13:07the right person
13:08not a single person ends raised their
13:11hands because they said we would accept
13:13that the police arrested the right
13:15person I go that's the problem that we
13:18as a society need to Kerr change we need
13:20to know that the police have arrested
13:22the right person because when you don't
13:24arrest the right person the guilty
13:26person is remaining free to commit
13:28additional crime convicted my Society
13:29and we've seen this in so many cases
13:31where we as a sigh accepted what the
13:34police said that the right person was
13:36arrested and they were wrong only when
13:41we were able to we Barry and Peter were
13:45able to establish the Innocence Project
13:47in New York City which began using DNA
13:50evidence to prove innocence and it was
13:52only because there was DNA evidence that
13:54we were able we they were able to change
13:58the human condition and the human mind
14:00why because we all want proof everybody
14:03wants proof jurors love DNA they love
14:06fingerprint they love forensic [ __ ] they
14:08love it whether or not it's [ __ ] or
14:11not they love it and there are huge wars
14:13in the legal system over what actually
14:16is science and what is not science and I
14:19am here to tell you that there is a
14:21inordinate amount of [ __ ] science
14:25soft science and hard science so it's
14:27soft sciences
14:28mental health professionals
14:30psychologists there is an enormous
14:32amount of so-called of experts who are
14:36admitted and allowed to testify as to
14:38science that is [ __ ] and is not
14:41science child sex abuse accommodation
14:44syndrome is allowed in every state in
14:46this country except for two and in New
14:49York State it is absolutely with hell
14:52upheld as science it's not science the
14:56guy who invented it it was a it was a
14:59diagnostic tool to help with his therapy
15:03and he has said it is not it was not
15:06even it's not even close to a science so
15:09it is horrible what goes on in our legal
15:11justice system with regard to what is
15:14purported to be science and what is not
15:17science so along those lines besides the
15:20fact that individuals in the legal
15:24community and jurists who are either
15:27remember remember because November is
15:29coming around
15:30they are either elected by all of us
15:33going to the polls or they're either
15:35appointed who they are who are they
15:37appointed by either the governor of your
15:40state or the President of the United
15:42States so there's nothing political
15:43about that right right that's who's on
15:47the bench okay do they get on the bench
15:50because of their qualifications yes many
15:52of them do but do not think for a second
15:57that not one of they are or it is a
15:59political appointment on every level
16:03it is a political appointment and that
16:05is really really important to remember
16:07and when you think about and this is so
16:13true in the case in Marty's case and I'm
16:15gonna say this one segment I'm going to
16:18show you a video and then I'm gonna let
16:19Marty talk and I'm gonna get off and
16:21then in later on if you want me to go
16:23back to the you know how the 440 works
16:27and things like that I have little
16:28diagrams and I could do more of a
16:29learning if you're interested in the
16:30actual way in which this gets through
16:34the court system but besides the
16:37political aspect the ego
16:42human nature police officers have a job
16:48detectives have a job they take their
16:50there it's a very important job
16:54they are cloaked in the legal system and
16:56civil rights litigation 1983 civil
16:59rights litigation gives officers
17:02immunity it's called the qualified
17:05immunity sometimes well judges and
17:08prosecutors get what's called absolute
17:09immunity and why are they cloaked with
17:12immunity what does immunity mean
17:13immunity is a defense to say hey I was
17:16doing my job and I had probable cause so
17:21you can't sue me for a civil rights
17:23violation why did the Civil Rights Act
17:26allow that because I have many clients
17:29who come to me very often and I say well
17:32she said you did this the police had
17:34probable cause I'm sorry I can't bring
17:37this lawsuit for you well and they're
17:41very upset by that and I get that
17:42because travesties and and justices go
17:44on all the time so just to let you the
17:48bigger picture is is that our laws are
17:50not based on individual cases right so
17:53as we throw out a large net when we
17:54legislate and and and have laws because
17:57you can't legislate over every single
17:59particular situation that's going to
18:01come about which is why we have we have
18:04a good system we need to the system to
18:06get better but it's definitely better
18:08than the alternative and that is true
18:09and in the case of immunity and giving
18:13officers immunity as a society as a
18:16whole
18:17we would like law enforcement to do the
18:19job of enforcing the laws for all of us
18:22so we do you know still call ourselves a
18:25civilized society and we are relatively
18:27relatively speaking a civilized society
18:29for everything that's wrong with it and
18:31so we would like law enforcement to be
18:32in the business of enforcing the law if
18:34every time a cop thought that you know
18:38when they said hey that's the lady who
18:39stole my bag or them go chase or go
18:41chase her and if every time the cop
18:43looked over his shoulder and said [ __ ]
18:45am I gonna get sued right now because
18:47I'm doing something wrong by going to
18:48chase we don't want them to be thinking
18:49about that so that's why the law gives
18:52them immunity it doesn't give them
18:54complete immunity or absolute
18:56unity but it does give some type of
18:59immunity that if they were acting in
19:01their role as law enforcement officials
19:03and they did have probable cause then in
19:07fact they do get immunity now there are
19:10issues that arise whether or not they
19:12lied there's deceit
19:13there's malice the Supreme Court
19:16recently bad Court has written some
19:18horrible decisions in the past few years
19:20about allowing immunity to exist when a
19:24witness goes and lies in the grand jury
19:26believe it or not it's a shock but and
19:28why do they say that they say well it's
19:30up to the district attorney because the
19:32district attorney puts the witnesses in
19:34to the grand jury
19:35so that's why so in other words you
19:38can't blame the witness or the cop who
19:40lied and then the prosecutors have
19:42absolute immunity for acting in their
19:44role as prosecutors but if I prosecuted
19:46as an investigation and lies in the
19:49investigation or withholds evidence
19:51those are all grounds for civil rights
19:53violations it's kind of a big mouthful
19:55there sorry and that wasn't a little bit
19:58what I was going to talk about what I
19:59was really getting at was the detectives
20:02and cops who had their egos and they dig
20:05their feet into I know don't mess with
20:08my investigation I if you know I did the
20:13work I did the research I gathered the
20:15evidence and this is it and that was
20:18really the travesty that started the
20:20mount Marty Tankleff case these cops
20:22they didn't do the research they didn't
20:24do the evidence they didn't do anything
20:26they just said oh it had to be him he's
20:28the guy there was there were three
20:31people in the house two of them were
20:32dead his parents and Marty
20:37seventeen-year-old kid just about to
20:39start his last day of senior year of
20:41high school
20:42first sorry it's just about to start his
20:44first day of his last year of high
20:46school and this is this kid who finds
20:51his parents dead has no idea is in
20:54complete shock and these detectives just
20:58literally railed over him and once they
21:01were entrenched in what they said this
21:04is what happened
21:06do not question our authority and this
21:09happens every day
21:10the cops the detectives I know I know my
21:13business and it's not just in law
21:15enforcement I mean I find it everywhere
21:18I am I mean there are lawyers there are
21:19judges there are you know the guy who's
21:23delivering you know your furniture you
21:25know I know my job I mean I moved last
21:27year and I'm sitting there with these
21:29guys movie they look we know how to do
21:30we know how to do it ma'am meanwhile
21:31like three hours into it I'm like all
21:33right you guys suppose those get out of
21:35the way this is how you do it but
21:36because people just like to say this is
21:38how I this is my job don't mess with my
21:40job
21:40and that's what it is and especially
21:43when detectives and cops get challenged
21:46by defense attorneys every day and in
21:48courts of law and these cops are in his
21:51case it is horrendous what happened and
21:54so this is one video showing the it's
21:58not only the ego it's the brazen
22:01disgusting disregard for human and
22:06existence and morals you know certain
22:10certainty so let me see if I could get
22:13this video on here okay how soon did you
22:22really start suspecting already killed
22:25his parents you got there around 7:30
22:277:40
22:28when did you start thinking okay I think
22:30this kid was involved probably was in
22:33the first 72 hours of any murder
22:49investigation are very critical we're
22:51talking about the first hour I know then
22:53you made the decision taking it to the
22:54police station right yes why why is that
22:57important to get him to the police
22:58station well it's it's not a good
23:01atmosphere to interview somebody
23:02everything seemed like that we just
23:05wanted to get him into any area where
23:07the atmosphere is more appropriate for
23:12him to be on somebody but did Marty ever
23:14say you're right you darling I did it
23:24you're right I did it
23:26other times in many many confessions
23:29many confessions you ever get a whole
23:31percent of the truth out of a out of a
23:33defendant anyway what happens is they
23:36try to minimize their involvement
23:38rydym you take this this confession we
23:42don't we don't tape we don't tape
23:44confessions were like we didn't anyway
23:47push people on the gun makes me more
23:49nervous than they normally would be
24:05[Applause]
24:41necessarily so he would have known it is
24:44even though she fought for her life and
24:46so that I said not necessarily but he
24:48had no injuries right mighty wanted to
24:55kill his death right why would he call
24:57my name what was that still alive
24:59I don't think he knew his father was
25:01still alive I could hear him gasping he
25:02said that his father was brain dead why
25:08would he call 9-1-1 if you wanted to
25:11kill us that you'd have to ask more
25:13dealer you were talking in just the way
25:14you were talking to me right now pretty
25:16much so yes you never raise your voice
25:24something like that
25:26do you think you've ever had a false
25:28confession no no no
25:30how do you know no meter at Python if I
25:32think of my dad when I run about by many
25:34women thank you and you're sure this one
25:37is a non positive level one is how do
25:39you know Joe cream wasn't involved his
25:41bad taste told people he was involved
25:44you know hey buddy a lot of people group
25:48just so you just against all know Joseph
25:51Creedon jut Jerry Suman was my father's
25:55business partner who heard my father
25:56about a half a million dollars
25:58his son Todd's Truman was a drug dealer
26:01and Joseph Cretan was one of his
26:03enforcers who would collect money and
26:06commit violent acts so it's very
26:08important to understand further what I'm
26:10gonna say later is what McCready is
26:12saying right now well son notice how
26:17he's defendants they is if every single
26:20defense right they're all like one one
26:22class one group bought with the same
26:23mine right they they and she really
26:27doesn't amazing job in how he would know
26:29how would he know and also it's very
26:32important for Marty's probably as soon
26:34what you're gonna talk about later is
26:36how he talks about how why would he call
26:38911 if his father was in the condition
26:41he was in that the the only the only
26:48thing that could be called a confession
26:50was as a result of the detectives lying
26:54telling this young shocked real
27:01individual that his father lying saying
27:06that his father had awoken and had said
27:10that Marty did it now Marty had a
27:13wonderful relationship with his parents
27:15and with his father and he looked up to
27:17his father and his father was his mentor
27:19and both his parents were he could talk
27:22about both his parents were his mentor
27:23and so the fact of hearing my father
27:27said that like maybe I black maybe I
27:30blacked out maybe I
27:32that's the confession the so-called
27:34confession and when McCready talks about
27:37that they didn't record confessions
27:40every month PowerPoint today but they
27:43are actually saying
27:44you they actually had a policy procedure
27:46in place in 1988 they had videotaping
27:51interrogation policies they had homicide
27:53investigations they have the equipment
27:55they have the technology they had the
27:57policy procedures they chose not to
27:59record the interrogation and I've said
28:02this in every single case when there
28:04isn't an interrogation that's recorded
28:05it's because they don't want the truth
28:08to come out you've recorded every aspect
28:12of an interview interrogation the truth
28:14comes out
28:15and enables everyone to review it when
28:17you withhold that recording you don't
28:19record it okay or you don't record to
28:22let's say ten hours into the
28:24interrogation and either last ten
28:26minutes really he confessed
28:27well what led up to that confession
28:29we're the ten hours well how come in
28:31fill those 10 hours it's not our policy
28:32we chose not to such as people like him
28:38they'll shoot their mouths off like that
28:40and say things like six people in my
28:55team never considered a suspect in this
29:00case what if it turns out in fact the
29:03joke reiden joey gunz was involved yeah
29:09I guess I would push but I don't think
29:11so I don't think it's gonna happen
29:13are you proud of the work you did in
29:15this case I want to yes would you have
29:20done anything differently no no I don't
29:24think she'll notice own set of
29:26circumstances I don't I don't see
29:30anything that I would have done
29:31differently so what I was talking about
29:33in terms of the the brazen attitude
29:36nothing reflects it better than Aaron
29:40did and and I and I do have to say that
29:42so often I not only do I rely on but I
29:46just love the investigative reporters
29:47and journalists and journalists because
29:49they really do their research so
29:51thoroughly and they have
29:53the advantage if you will although I'm
29:55not making it as if it's an excuse for
29:57their hard work and intelligence and and
30:01in their ability to just you know dig
30:04deep and be tenacious but they they
30:07focus on one case and they could really
30:09dig in to one case and do incredible
30:12jobs so I presume by they should get a
30:16little bit of a background so 1988 was
30:19my first day of senior year but before
30:23we get to that day I kinda have to give
30:25you a little bit of background of the
30:26individuals involved so you can get a
30:28better picture of why things happen who
30:31there are so in the early 1980s my
30:34father invested in Jerry Sherman who was
30:37the bagel king of Long Island he
30:40invested probably close to a half a
30:41million dollars with him
30:43the bagel store is turned into bagel
30:45stores horses some other business
30:49ventures in the summer of 1988 the
30:52business relationship and the personal
30:54relationship deteriorating my father
30:56started to demand money back and a few
31:01weeks before September 7th my father
31:04went out golfing with my uncle Mike Mike
31:07Fox and Mike Fox was the family attorney
31:09he was a family friend and Mike said to
31:12my father you know aren't you a little
31:13bit worried about Jerry and my dad said
31:16I'm not worried I know where the bones
31:18are buried and at that point I don't
31:21think anybody really understood what
31:22that meant then I found out years later
31:26after the attacks happened that Jerry
31:30Stubing threatened to cut my mother's
31:33tongue out okay so Jerry Stephens son
31:39Todd was a drug dealer okay who do with
31:42cocaine heroin and heroin cocaine part
31:46of the drugs he had enforces one of them
31:49was named by Joseph [ __ ] Joseph [ __ ]
31:52was an enforcer who used violent acts to
31:55extort money he was convicted of rape he
31:59fully admitted some of this on this
32:00witness stand
32:01now when McCready talks about up there
32:04that he was in
32:06stated by his team he wasn't MacCready
32:10is a liar he's been found to have
32:13committed perjury before and continued
32:15committing perjury throughout this case
32:17so imagine September 7 1988 your first
32:20day of senior year you should wake up
32:22and have this joyous first day should be
32:26the maybe for my father held a high
32:29stakes poker game because he was a
32:31regular card player and one of the
32:34members at the game was Jerry Stormin
32:36now some would say if my father felt so
32:39fearful of Jerry Sherman why would you
32:42allow him into the house my fault there
32:44was this guy who grew up in Brooklyn
32:46tough guy
32:47nobody was gonna stop him nobody's gonna
32:48intimidate him and the card game was a
32:51regular occurrence ok there's always
32:53people there we later learned at the end
32:56of the night
32:57Jerry sterling should have been like the
32:59second or third person to leave last he
33:02wasn't so the following morning I wake
33:05up I find my father clinging to life and
33:08my mother deceased I was questioned by
33:12police at length everyone including
33:16myself when we were asked who do you
33:18think was involved this we all said
33:20Jerry sterben why you're my father over
33:23half a million dollars now if you think
33:27police just part out from the moment
33:32when Marty woke up until he discovered
33:36his parents and then he called 9-1-1
33:41he was taken into custody by the police
33:46at his home that morning and he was
33:51taken into police custody he was taken
33:54back to Yaphank where he was then
33:57questioned repeatedly for hours
34:01he's never released he never had any
34:03family his brother was separated from me
34:07where I was trying to get get to him and
34:10when Mike Fox showed up at the house
34:12because at one point Mike Fox was the
34:15family attorney and my godfather he was
34:17told Marty's out the house he come to
34:20the house to get me who do you think
34:23stopped Mike Fox from knowing I was
34:25there come on
34:27McCready McCready ran up to him and said
34:31Marty's not here my told him I represent
34:35the family attorney I don't want a
34:37question I want him brought to the house
34:38McCready said he's not here he's on he's
34:41on the way to the hospital it was a lie
34:43it was a lie
34:45and at a later point okay
34:48McCready had said to one of the lawyers
34:51Mike never said the magic words he never
34:53said he was a criminal lawyer and Amy
34:55can tell you and I can tell you it
34:57doesn't matter what kind of lawyer you
34:59are you can do real estate you can do
35:00transactional your state it doesn't
35:02matter if I'm a lawyer and I say
35:04represent the professor here you can't
35:08talk you can't talk I counsel you also
35:16have to save Council on this matter so I
35:18have clients who I represented on a
35:20matter the matter was the over a month
35:23before my client gets read
35:26I call the priest but my client says
35:29Miss Marian represents me they do a
35:31search they know that she hasn't
35:33represented nobody's put in a notice of
35:36appearance nobody has informed you us
35:38that she represents you
35:39this pleasant matter so Mike Fox was
35:43there and said I'm the family attorney
35:44and I'm representing him and just to let
35:46you know the Lord 1988 was not like that
35:48he came in and just said I'm a lawyer
35:50it's a constitutional right to counsel
35:52it's invoked and that's it all
35:54questioning stops that didn't not only
35:56did that not happen but they they more I
35:59believe he was still at the scene in the
36:01back of a car like they literally
36:02stretched away so I didn't see imagine
36:06let's say that door is a driveway I was
36:09all the way over here in a car so
36:12somebody pulled up over there you know
36:14and McCready saw him pulling up and I
36:17kind of said at one point oh there's my
36:19Uncle Mike's I recognized the car so
36:21McCready did one of these Genet right
36:23towards the car stop them okay McCready
36:26knew what he was doing because the
36:28creating and the crews out there had
36:30this pattern where they would isolate
36:32suspects that they want to interrogate
36:35and they want to get confessions out
36:37okay they did in the James PI's case
36:39where they're moving people around so
36:47remember it was the late 80s there was a
36:49lot of like coca drugs and these
36:51detectives some of them there are
36:53allegations from people out there that
36:55were very good about one of them owned a
36:58bar and so there was a lot of partying
37:01going on and there were drug dealers
37:02that they allow so this was not you know
37:05such a these guys wanted news in 1888
37:09allegedly in 1888 this is not allegedly
37:131988 the state of New York Commission
37:15investigation issued about a 200 page
37:18report about the misconduct of the
37:22Suffolk County District Attorney's
37:23Office the police department detectives
37:25in that report the Commission found
37:28McCready had committed perjury in
37:31another homicide case they also found
37:34that there were illegal wiretaps going
37:36on but this is the kind of the nature
37:39out there I think it was 1984 the
37:44American Bar Association found that the
37:46Suffolk County homicide squad used very
37:49unorthodox tactics because they got
37:51anyone from
37:52I need to 98% confessions in there
37:55homicide cases which was higher than
37:57anywhere in the country it's kind of
37:59unheard of
38:00I could tell you that the various topics
38:02I heard over the years that they use
38:05they use physical violence they use
38:06mental coercion they would take
38:08telephone books where the telephone
38:10books on you hit you with the metal pipe
38:12so the pipe wouldn't leave a bruise but
38:13you felt the pain what are the common
38:16tactics that homicide detectives use is
38:20the isolation the lies the deceit I mean
38:23I can go into a long method but you know
38:25later on there's the read technique
38:27where it's interrogations where they try
38:29to get you comfortable and they end up
38:32having you believe the only way out of
38:35the interrogation room is to confess or
38:39ignored what they want you to say the
38:41only way the investigation by the state
38:43came about because it wouldn't come
38:45about from defense attorneys or from you
38:48know actual innocence individuals
38:50complaining it was because the judge
38:51actually was in the middle of a trial
38:53and during the middle of the trial the
38:56judge was but caught the detective lying
38:59right next to him and testifying as if
39:02the suppression hearing in the trial I
39:03think you need to suppress suppression
39:05hearing and so hearing to suppress it
39:08was actually to suppress identification
39:11testimony if I recall the show of
39:13testimony from those witnesses so it was
39:15only because jut this judge judge named
39:17who was a politically appointed judge
39:19and you said that I was as he said I was
39:21a part of that I was a part of that
39:23political community out there and it
39:26he's said to me I mean it ruined his
39:29life from doing this but he he did this
39:33years later he's kind of whether or not
39:36he actually appreciates it or not
39:38because he really does feel like how you
39:40know the personal cost but it was a very
39:43important thing what he did and he
39:45reported this these lies and perjurious
39:48testimony which led to new york state
39:52starting the investigation and don't
39:55forget that Suffolk County still if you
39:57recall right just recently Trump out
40:00there and that was in Brentwood and that
40:02was in front of Suffolk County cops
40:04and there was a study done by the
40:09Southern Poverty Law Secretary with
40:11regard to the profiling of the Hispanic
40:16community in Suffolk County because of
40:18the studies done by the Suffolk County
40:19the Southern Poverty Law Center that
40:22went to the DOJ the Department of
40:24Justice and the Department of Justice
40:26issued a scathing report years ago to
40:28Suffolk County that said you need to
40:31change all of your policies your
40:32practices your guidelines in Suffolk
40:35County has it been done no because what
40:39happened two years ago was one of our
40:44client my partner perspective our Kent
40:46myself one of our clients Christopher
40:49Loeb was beaten by the chief of police
40:52chief Burke who was the chief of police
40:54for Suffolk County police department
40:56who's now in federal prison as so he was
41:00the chief of police so what happens the
41:02DOJ says something New York State you
41:04know commissions say something and
41:07there's still you know with all that
41:11power and and and and and it takes the
41:14chief of police to be incarcerated but
41:16has that stop the policies no because
41:19the DA's still the DA out there so back
41:22to September 7th on brought to
41:24headquarters and when McCready talked
41:28about how they didn't record
41:29interrogations they chose not to so
41:31after being there for god knows how many
41:34hours six or seven hours I was finally
41:37to the police I ran said Marty confessed
41:39now there's no videotape of it there's
41:42no recording of it but let me try to
41:44explain how false confessions come about
41:45and I kind of have to simplify it
41:47because people find very difficult to
41:50understand how many people in the air'
41:51have siblings how many people remember
41:54when you're very young your parents went
41:57out somebody broke a lamp in the house
42:00and your parents come home and they said
42:02okay who broke the lamp we're not going
42:04out for ice cream until we find who
42:06broke the lamp how many of you didn't
42:08broke the lamp said okay I broke it just
42:10about for ice cream yeah you can first
42:13okay it's that simple when people need
42:16people need to
42:17Stan but if you think about in the most
42:19simplistic terms you just wanna go for
42:22ice cream
42:23now imagine being locked in a room and
42:25you're there for six seven eight ten
42:27hours you've got nowhere to go and all
42:30the cops keep telling you you're not
42:31going there if you tell us what we want
42:33to hear after a while you're just going
42:36to give in because you have especially
42:38if you're innocent if you're innocent
42:40you have the mistaken belief that
42:42whatever you say will be proven to be
42:45not true soul cast and told me it was at
42:48a presentation where he told me story
42:50about a bold suspect who was being
42:53interrogated the cop said we have your
42:56hair at the crime scene just confess he
42:59said okay I was there he's thinking I'm
43:03bald well my hair could have been there
43:05he could first did he get charged and
43:08confession okay trust law enforcement
43:12and confessions or depending on where
43:15you are is that it's the king of all
43:17evidence because when people hear
43:19someone confessed okay I mean nowadays
43:23is a little bit different but you think
43:25back to 1990 okay if I told you somebody
43:29confess to a crime and probably half the
43:31room wasn't even born
43:32you know you said and if you confessed
43:35you probably did it okay but it's not
43:38true and we have proven through Dean
43:40evidence we've proven through the
43:42evaluation of videotaped evidence and
43:45most of you will know the Central Park
43:47jogger case okay revolt those case I
43:50testified with you self I testified with
43:52Raymond before they were lucky enough to
43:55have video tapes as strangers as lucky I
43:57use were lucky have their confessions
43:59were videotaped so when all of a sudden
44:02years later the DNA evidence came out to
44:04show they watered guilty people were
44:06able to go back and go how did this come
44:08about in some of those cases the parents
44:10were there that is the benefit of having
44:14videotaped interrogations so here I am
44:18September 7th and I finally get out of
44:21the confines of the police and one of
44:24the first people I spoke to is my half
44:25sister sherry who said did you confess
44:27they said they made me tell them things
44:31so here I am I'm charged with the murder
44:35of my mother attempted murder my father
44:36as my father's clinging to life jerry
44:40Stour man my father's business partner
44:42cleans out a joint bank account fixes
44:46death tells his family he's gonna be
44:49swimming with the fish flees New York
44:53breaks off his chain leases car running
44:57goes to New Jersey goes to California
45:00gets he back then he had a hair weave so
45:03he went to a hair place got his new hair
45:05we put him goes to hide out in a
45:08psychiatric retreat how many people in
45:10this room would consider him a suspect
45:12knowing those facts what have I told you
45:17Suffolk County end he wasn't a suspect
45:22but they sent a homicide they said
45:24McCready out to California to bring him
45:26back and he was never considered a
45:30suspect even though his son was a drug
45:34dealer who had enforcers who committed
45:37violent acts
45:38even though Jerry Hsu Road might fall
45:41over half a million dollars was there
45:43that night okay and when McCready says
45:47they investigated opportunity flight so
46:00in the cruel process because the police
46:03did I confessed we had what was called
46:05the Holly hearing problem at this Holly
46:08hearing was as my defense lawyer was
46:10running for the district attorney and
46:11the judge hearing the hearing was also
46:14in contention for running for the
46:16district attorney's position so if
46:18you're a judge and you have this
46:19high-profile case and you want to get
46:22the career of the favor of law
46:24enforcement obviously you're not going
46:26to rule that law enforcement lied and a
46:28Huntley Harry is hearing is a hearing to
46:31suppress statements of the accused and
46:34in Marty's case that couldn't have been
46:36anything that was more important and as
46:38in many cases if you suppress the
46:40evidence then there's no case left in
46:42his
46:43the only evidence was this so-called
46:46confession so it was it was the most
46:48important part of his case and and the
46:51confession is interesting would be is
46:52that if you broke it down fact by fact
46:56the way law enforcement said I confessed
46:59every single thing was wrong they said
47:04that there was a knife that was next to
47:06a piece of Waterman in my house was the
47:08murder weapon lo and behold it was
47:13watermelon on the knife nothing more
47:14than that
47:15in 1988 we recently found out through
47:18civil discovery the medical examiner
47:22told the DA's office the more D'Mello
47:25knife was not and could not have been
47:27the murder weapon unfortunately they've
47:30led the public to believe the word of
47:31own life was a murder weapon they led
47:33the jury to believe it they lied okay in
47:36the COS quote-unquote confession they
47:38said a dumbbell was used the Dumbo as
47:40microscope we inspected there was no
47:43evidence office years later 19 2004 2005
47:512006 the attorney general's office got
47:54involved and they conducted some
47:56reinvestigations and they found evidence
47:58that have been withheld that was 25
48:00years I guess that later but I just
48:03wanted so you understand kind of the
48:05mentality out there so the confession
48:08so-called confession in the statement
48:10judge juice allowed it in 1990 I was
48:15tried and convicted after a 12 retrial
48:19now open to this point this attorney
48:24kept saying it was the most difficult
48:26case they've ever had to try because
48:33okay it was the most difficult case they
48:36ever had to try because the victim's
48:39family defendants failed were the same
48:41family and what was interesting about
48:44this everybody said if that's your
48:46feeling aren't you missing something
48:49and picture of when you were 17 oh that
48:56could have been sensing sensing so just
49:03for everyone to understand really how
49:06difficult this case was I just want to
49:09show you a short clip of my family so
49:12realize this my mother's sister
49:15supported me my father his brother
49:17supported me
49:18there was only one family member who
49:22didn't support me my half-sister I have
49:27sister and that had benefiting
49:28financially from my conviction and
49:31airfares found guilty and went to prison
49:33she opened up a bar restaurant with her
49:37husband and guess who the detective so
49:44not only did my half-sister benefit
49:46financially by my conviction the lead
49:48lead detective benefits for Angela from
49:51my connection why are you here I'm here
49:59because I believe Marty is I feel that
50:02Marty is a very gentle soul and I held
50:06Marty when he was one day old and it was
50:10just wonderful and he grew up he was
50:12just a lovely lovely young man we have
50:16so much love for him more than all the
50:19distorted things that are going around
50:22there was no not one scintilla of doubt
50:25in my mind that Marty is innocent it
50:29would be so much easier if Marty did to
50:32it those are my brothers two sisters we
50:34wouldn't all be here and have to you
50:37know be tortured with all of this
50:40information that we're constantly
50:41getting and it's constantly being you
50:44know thrown in our faces you know we
50:45could put it to rest we could write
50:47marty off and not have anything to do
50:50with him if we thought that he did it it
50:53was slight of build Hollywood it hit him
50:55like a tennis ball I mean he was made
50:58five six maybe about 120 pounds it was
51:01no way he was really an easygoing quiet
51:05kid and there was nothing wrong in that
51:07house that day I was there for about
51:09three or four hours and it was the day
51:11before school my sister played tennis
51:14like a man and I said she threw her hand
51:18and knocked him into the bay she thought
51:21and I thought perhaps Marty had marks on
51:29him or what so what did you do so I
51:31opened his shirt you see he went to see
51:33him in in person to jail open this shirt
51:37and he said Oh aunt making what are you
51:39looking for what do you like I said mark
51:42and he could so what she's talking about
51:46as rioters arrested the first one I
51:48could get a visitor because of what
51:51McCready had said McCready had pulled
51:53all the family on our side you have to
51:55come to terms Marty's guilty and she
51:59came to visit me and she's opening up my
52:01shirt rolling up my sleeves I said what
52:03are you looking for they said you know
52:04they said Makris that you did this and
52:06his marks all over you and I what are
52:08you talking about
52:09that's what she's talking about when she
52:11kept looking for some kind of injury
52:13I should take flip the shirt and he did
52:17and he pulled up his sleeve
52:19and he didn't have a mom on him not a
52:22mark on him
52:23we're not only here because we're
52:25thinking out of love we're thinking with
52:27our heads too
52:28there is no evidence it's not any
52:31evidence to prove that he's guilty can
52:34you and all imagine admitting to
52:36something you didn't do
52:38if a person that I respected and loved
52:42such as my wife said that I had
52:45committed some violence some awful stuff
52:50I would say to myself holy smokes
52:54maybe maybe I wasn't conscious of what I
52:57did
52:58maybe we live in such a state of shock
53:00can you imagine that that young man went
53:03through that day he just walked out to
53:06the worst nightmare that someone's
53:08ripped up to in their lives why he tried
53:11he administered first aiders had him try
53:14he administered first aid to his father
53:15he made the calls he waited for the
53:18police and then when please got there
53:19all they did was take this kid and just
53:22a railroad him it's very strong evidence
53:24of how close more he was with his
53:27parents and with his father they had an
53:31amazing trust so Marty Trust is bad so
53:36much this has to be true both my
53:59children and I learned how to swim at
54:02their house and that summer there and I
54:05stayed in his room when we were there
54:09that summer he gave up this room shall
54:11we
54:11I myself vision I could have it and I
54:15just
54:17I just don't believe he did it he would
54:20drop us off at school he helped us with
54:22our school projects and how would you
54:37describe him he's probably one of the
54:45strongest people I know he makes me real
54:53strong
54:53this is his shrink amazing here's so
54:56much we've seen him sobbing sobbing sobs
55:06sob I'm off to the trial but then he
55:09when he gets in front of you know where
55:12he's supposed to maintain some dignity
55:13that's exactly what he does and his
55:16attorney told all of us like it was such
55:20a wrong relationship and Marty Webb's
55:22family so much that any time I invited
55:26similarly noble even if they just drop
55:28by your Miller Marty was going to be
55:30with them and even as a teenager he just
55:33loved being a family loved being with
55:34them it was wonderfully the wonderful
55:37thing to say an experience he's a great
55:39kid so Marty's um lottie's ability to
55:49put the emotion aside and to speak was
55:52actually one of the one of his downfalls
55:54in in the criminal trial the criminal
55:57trial was a very very highly publicized
56:00event out on Long Island if you if you
56:04were around or of some age in Long
56:05Island in the late 80s and 88 when this
56:08was going on
56:08you knew about it because it was on the
56:10cover of the news day every single day
56:13and because Marty was able to speak in a
56:17way that didn't the emotions didn't
56:21flood through it was deemed that he was
56:24cold and that's how it was portrayed
56:26that he was cold
56:28you have to realize the the age of this
56:32boy and how influential not only and his
56:37parents he loved his parents his parents
56:39he idolized his parents he grew up in a
56:41beautiful you know home with his parents
56:44and his dad was a strong guy a business
56:47guy a tough guy so you have all of that
56:50you haven't being swept away you have
56:53the shock and there is science
56:56unlike the science that I told you
56:58that's not science there is science by
57:01scientists dr. John Ewell who's one of
57:04the leading scientists in the United
57:07States and in the world actually who
57:10developed in all of New York City it's
57:12called the Child Advocacy centers
57:14jeonyoul created the child advocacy
57:16centers in New York child advocacy
57:18centers are developed so that there
57:20would be a three pronged process of the
57:23DA's office the police and social
57:26workers to talk to children child
57:29victims and this science that developed
57:33by John Ewell and many other
57:34practitioners throughout the country
57:36deals with memory changing and they have
57:39tests and scientific studies that have
57:42been done that memories memories can be
57:46changed
57:46memories are changed if you've ever had
57:49kids and your kids are young and you
57:51could tell my son's 22 now I think I
57:54could probably tell them at 15 years old
57:56this happened and he would say oh okay
57:58and so it's very easy actually to change
58:00memories the other thing that you
58:02realize when you deal with witnesses a
58:03lot is that people don't think or
58:06believe that they're lying but they
58:08believe in a story that they now have
58:11created or that their memory was changed
58:13to believe so that is how when we think
58:18about false confessions and what people
58:20say how could somebody confess if they
58:22didn't do it how can somebody confess if
58:23they didn't do it if somebody tells you
58:25that someone thought something happened
58:27and Marnie was in such a shock state and
58:29then he was told by the detectives that
58:32his father who he loved dearly is
58:34clinging on to life and has awoken and
58:38stated that you did that
58:40who knows what would
58:42come out of his his his his mouth at
58:45that time he he maybe he can't talk
58:49about it tonight I wondered wants a down
58:51play but you need to understand that
58:53with his mother it was his mother fought
58:56fiercely this was a vicious attack there
58:59was blood on the wall there were the
59:01curtains strewn down that it was a
59:04horrible she was beaten to death blunt
59:09trauma real force this this was a
59:14horrible homicide this was in a house in
59:18the 80s was there was white carpet
59:20everywhere there was not a drop of blood
59:24anywhere on the white carpet there was
59:28not any physical evidence on Marty
59:32whatsoever
59:33there was nothing he had a little blood
59:37from because he went over and was trying
59:39to save his father your father he first
59:43name to my father so I had some blood on
59:44him but when Amy is right I mean one my
59:47original defense lawyer one of the first
59:48things he said he goes wait a minute is
59:50your mother was attacked in the bedroom
59:52he follows in the opposite of the house
59:53if you did this you're gonna be you know
59:55you've went into the house of the next
59:58white carpets white floors black there'd
1:00:01be some trace evidence and it was in the
1:00:04prosecution's theory of the case was
1:00:08that well he went and he washed it all
1:00:10off well well yeah but right good that
1:00:15quick good he wasn't wet but then what
1:00:18the defense did was the defense actually
1:00:20went and had a plumber and they and they
1:00:23took out everything from the drains it
1:00:27was not one bit of DNA no evidence no
1:00:30blood no nothing nothing found they
1:00:34searched that entire property for a
1:00:36weapon there was no weapon found years
1:00:40later through the DNA on the sheets they
1:00:42were actually able to see an imprint of
1:00:45a weapon that was actually the real
1:00:47weapon that was taken from the scene
1:00:50that's when Amy's talking about is on
1:00:52the comforter of my mother's room
1:00:54my parents room they found a bloody
1:00:56knife and print on the comforter the
1:00:59comforter it being possession of the
1:01:01Suffolk County Police Department from
1:01:02day one they never disclosed anything
1:01:06about that in print it wasn't until I
1:01:08was 20 years later with the Attorney
1:01:10General conducted their reinvestigation
1:01:12van cover and they disclosed it
1:01:14additionally they were there a bull of
1:01:17like prints in blood in my house
1:01:20from the gloves and years later okay
1:01:25when I start talking about the
1:01:26individual upon the board okay so the
1:01:32first Ford 1990 I was trying I just want
1:01:34to say one other thing about the
1:01:35physical about the the evidence just to
1:01:38show the overwhelming evidence of
1:01:39innocence was that there was also
1:01:45aerodynamics studies done by individuals
1:01:48who do like airplane noise sound and so
1:01:51where Marty's room was Marty's room was
1:01:54in a part of the house and Marty had
1:01:55this like his bed was in a like
1:01:58underneath a loft it was cave like as
1:02:01they said and that's how the structure
1:02:02was and it was a cave-like structure
1:02:04where his room in his bed was and they
1:02:06actually did studies with like erudite
1:02:10the individuals who do you know airplane
1:02:12to see the sound and see if the sound is
1:02:14too loud and they did studies to see
1:02:16what you could hear from outside of that
1:02:19room where his bed was located under
1:02:21this sort of I pictured as sort of a
1:02:23little bit of a cement dome the way the
1:02:25the walls are and it was a they said it
1:02:28was cave light and so they did noise
1:02:29studies to hear because if there was
1:02:32such a struggle with his mother the
1:02:33other question was why didn't he wake up
1:02:34right so we've heavy sleeper or not in
1:02:38that house and they actually did studies
1:02:40and the studies show that when you were
1:02:42in the air when you were sleeping where
1:02:44his bed was and you could not hear you
1:02:47could not hear any noise from outside
1:02:48there were four NASA and the study was
1:02:55is that she lay in my bed awake and they
1:02:59had people throughout the house
1:03:00screaming and yelling at louder voices
1:03:02and it was like almost a zero decibel
1:03:04registration in the room
1:03:06but you know some people say well why
1:03:08was Marty left alive who else to take
1:03:11the fall you know except I if I if I was
1:03:15killed who do you think they'd go after
1:03:17McCready and as we've later learned
1:03:21sterben sorry sermon on the Chris Hill
1:03:24okay because that morning McCready was
1:03:29not the homicide detective on duty
1:03:32someone else was somehow he showed up
1:03:36before the homicide detective on duty
1:03:37arrived he was as soon ty and he knew
1:03:42facts about the case that he should have
1:03:44known obvious give me one example he
1:03:46knew there was a card game there that
1:03:48took place the night before how would he
1:03:51know that unless he knew maybe in
1:03:53advance what was going to happen because
1:03:55as we later learned during the 4:40
1:03:57hearings McCready and Stephen mill each
1:04:00other and he was not dressed in a suit
1:04:03and tie he was working on his projects
1:04:06of building real estate condos or
1:04:08something he was like a GC on some draw
1:04:10a job so he had to go home get in his
1:04:13suit and get to the scene so 99m found
1:04:19guilty and all the evidence that comes
1:04:22out
1:04:22everybody's saying how has he found
1:04:25guilty there's nothing there
1:04:27I was sensitive 50 years to life first
1:04:32appeal as Amy talked early was a direct
1:04:35appeal 1993 in New York say the
1:04:38Appellate Division second department you
1:04:39argue before four judges my Uncle Mike
1:04:43in California asked my pal Laura said
1:04:45what happens if it goes to two and the
1:04:48Lord never goes to two what do you think
1:04:51happened in my case two to a fifth Jed
1:04:54was brought on unbeknownst to anybody
1:04:55and they ruled against me three two I
1:04:58had two judges in 1993 vote to dismiss
1:05:01the indictments against me and set me
1:05:03free unfortunately your system doesn't
1:05:06work well we appeal to the next highest
1:05:08court which was the Court of Appeals
1:05:10that quarrel ruled seven I'll from there
1:05:13you go to the federal district court
1:05:15they ruled against me from there we went
1:05:18to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals
1:05:20the Second Circuit Court of Appeals
1:05:23issued a very if anybody goes on to law
1:05:26school it's a very interesting case to
1:05:28study because in federal courts they
1:05:30could only grant relief under federal
1:05:32law the Second Circuit went beyond their
1:05:35normal kind of sense and said under
1:05:38state constitutional law your rights
1:05:40were violated the state courts have
1:05:42ruled erroneously but we can't grant
1:05:45your relief under that but there was a
1:05:48Batson violation Batson is a jury
1:05:51selection issue where the prosecutor
1:05:54uses exclusions to just get rid of
1:05:57minorities minorities I think it's race
1:06:00religion I think it's even suspect class
1:06:03now in 1988 I was white and the jurors
1:06:09that the press was getting rid of Rafkin
1:06:11American now back in 88 it really wasn't
1:06:14an issue but my defense lawyer said
1:06:16every African American jurors coming
1:06:18forward here the prosecutors getting rid
1:06:20of and years later the courts agreed
1:06:23with my defense law so the Second
1:06:25Circuit said you have to go back down
1:06:27for a hearing to assess the credibility
1:06:28of the prosecutors reasons for excluding
1:06:32the jurors so we go back down to
1:06:35unfortunately
1:06:35Suffolk County the case is being heard
1:06:38before a judge whose daughter works in
1:06:41the DA's office that is fighting to keep
1:06:44me in prison the door does balls is my
1:06:47prosecutor the judge doesn't disclose
1:06:51his fact the prosecutor's office doesn't
1:06:53disclose this fact and the sole
1:06:55responsibility of the judge was to
1:06:56assess the credibility of his daughter's
1:06:58boss and why excluded jurors we didn't
1:07:02find out about these relations to us six
1:07:03months later after the judge Lourie
1:07:05ruled against me and we asked for a new
1:07:07hearing they said now so it was right
1:07:09about this time that my load new lawyers
1:07:12said what has never been done before
1:07:15that's an investigation so in 1998 1999
1:07:19I started looking for private
1:07:21investigators
1:07:22I found one by the name of JL Peter Jade
1:07:25started with no one else had done he
1:07:27said okay
1:07:28who benefited financially
1:07:30this case Stormin who had drug-dealing
1:07:33associates thoughts German so he started
1:07:36with Jerry Suman went down at Osterman
1:07:39he started looking at criminal
1:07:41associates on the first criminal
1:07:42associates he found was Glenn Harris
1:07:45when he went to Glenn Harris Glen house
1:07:47I've been waiting I think 13 years for
1:07:49this game what do you mean because I was
1:07:51the getaway driver that night he said I
1:07:55brought Peter Kent and Joe Graydon I
1:08:01know Peter can it Joey creed into the
1:08:03house they committed the murders
1:08:07so with that start of a small body of
1:08:10new evidence we started conducting
1:08:12additional investigations and we found
1:08:15all these other witnesses where Stuart
1:08:19had gone to people to take a contract
1:08:21out to kill my parents and one of the
1:08:23individuals was I think Joe great and
1:08:26Joe Greene and passed it on to Joe
1:08:27secretin Brian Scott glass okay and I
1:08:32can this is on the web site so if
1:08:33anybody wants to know the details of
1:08:35this so all of a sudden as body of
1:08:38evidence that shows I was innocent again
1:08:40and we brought to the Suffolk County
1:08:42District Attorney's Office and said list
1:08:44we're going to give you 45 days to
1:08:46conduct your own investigation into what
1:08:49we've developed because guess what we
1:08:51don't have the same investigatory powers
1:08:53that you do we don't have the same
1:08:54subpoena power that judo well they
1:08:58didn't go out to investigate the first
1:09:00witness
1:09:01till the 44th day I think now I need to
1:09:04backtrack for one moment before my first
1:09:08appeal was heard in 1993 there's a woman
1:09:11named calling Kovacs on the right hand
1:09:14side she was at a party with Joseph
1:09:18Creedon one of the murders confessed to
1:09:20her in 1992 or 93 we brought that
1:09:25information to the DA's office they did
1:09:28nothing with it nothing so after we've
1:09:33developed this body of evidence we want
1:09:35to continue to investigate so one of the
1:09:38ideas that my private investigator has
1:09:39it let's polygraph Marty let's polygraph
1:09:43Glenn Harris who's the getaway driver
1:09:45let's polygraph crawling codex just to
1:09:48see is everyone telling the truth we use
1:09:51a gentlemanly name of Joel Rankin er who
1:09:54works at the property defense he's also
1:09:56the gentleman who trained Robert De Niro
1:09:59and Meet the Fockers
1:10:00it was De Niro right everyone passed
1:10:03with flying colors
1:10:04so we developed this body of evidence we
1:10:07presented itself accounting and the
1:10:10hearings go on for about 18 months
1:10:13because at one point there was a
1:10:15gentleman by the name of a the Joseph
1:10:18Graydon who said that there were some
1:10:21conflicts so we had to file a motion for
1:10:23special conflicts eventually here in
1:10:26considered and in January of 2007
1:10:33gentleman by the name of John Gracia can
1:10:40anybody read who John Gracia is okay
1:10:43John gracio is Joseph's credence son so
1:10:48the individual that is publicly being
1:10:50identified is the murderer
1:10:52his son was our last witness who said my
1:10:55father confessed to me and he committed
1:10:58the murders and it wasn't Marty you
1:11:00would think in a normal just criminal
1:11:03justice system the judge would say and
1:11:06that's enough now some of these
1:11:07witnesses included father wrong a priest
1:11:10I'm not where the getaway driver
1:11:12confessed to them unfortunately the
1:11:14judge ruled against me said a lot of the
1:11:16witnesses we presented with nefarious
1:11:18scoundrels
1:11:19so the Defiler scoundrels included
1:11:21family members friends amount a priest a
1:11:25businessman expert witnesses so we end
1:11:30up having to appeal yeah okay and you
1:11:36got so bad at one point the prosecutor
1:11:40accused my defense team of paying
1:11:41witnesses off to testify and he publicly
1:11:46came and said that and when we waited to
1:11:49court we said what are you talking -
1:11:50will you pay them for their lost wages
1:11:52and their travel expenses which we can
1:11:56tell you and I can tell you
1:11:57it is absolutely legal if somebody flies
1:11:59up from Florida and they're spending
1:12:01three days in from work you can pay them
1:12:03for their lost wages but it turned into
1:12:05they're paying witnesses to testify then
1:12:09the prosecutor would say people are
1:12:11trying to get their 15 minutes of fame
1:12:13how many in this room would want to
1:12:15inject themselves into a double homicide
1:12:17case just to be on TV decide well
1:12:20somebody confess to me 15 years ago
1:12:22nobody people want to go on with their
1:12:25lives so finally the judge rules against
1:12:29me we appeal to the Appellate Division
1:12:31and it was October of 2007 it was four
1:12:40different lawyers that argued my case I
1:12:41had four separate types of Appeals the
1:12:45crow room was so packed I heard the
1:12:48story before
1:12:48was so packed that actually had an
1:12:50overflow room one of the big supporters
1:12:54was Barry Scheck James Gandolfini was
1:12:57also there or Moroni was there my family
1:13:00was there and it was on December 21st it
1:13:04was the last day of 2007 that the court
1:13:09could issue their rulings and I remember
1:13:13I was in Comstock correct with Suzanne I
1:13:15work at a law library and we had access
1:13:18to the phones I think you've heard the
1:13:21story before and I remember calling in
1:13:23the morning and calling I ran like still
1:13:25no decision still no decision and so I'm
1:13:28like oh [ __ ] what the hell is gonna
1:13:29happen now and that's the last day like
1:13:31I'm making me still stuck here go back
1:13:34for lunch come back
1:13:36get on the phone in the afternoon and
1:13:38then speak to Roz Dan Roz was somebody
1:13:42who worked with Lonnie Soren who did
1:13:45some of the public relations advocacy
1:13:48and she's like we won what the [ __ ] did
1:13:51we you know because I for appeals in
1:13:54that had a DNA thing and I'm thinking
1:13:55less what are we with him she's like I
1:13:57don't know
1:13:58and finally I end up calling lenska and
1:14:02she was like you won the big one like Oh
1:14:04what does that mean she was I don't know
1:14:06[Laughter]
1:14:07so everybody I'm calling on like okay
1:14:10everyone and it was every person I
1:14:13called you could hear the joy in their
1:14:15voices they knew we want something and
1:14:18by this point I had also worked in the
1:14:20law library for was thirteen or fourteen
1:14:22years and I finally got to speak to
1:14:24Bruce and his famous phrase about them
1:14:26he's like pack your [ __ ] you're coming
1:14:28home you will never see the inside of a
1:14:30jail cell and I said to myself you know
1:14:32Bruce and I know I know how about the
1:14:33law it's an oral contract I'm gonna hold
1:14:35you to it
1:14:36and if you don't live up to it I'm gonna
1:14:38come after you because you're never
1:14:40going back
1:14:40and that was Friday December 21st 2007
1:14:45I'll never forget it because I could
1:14:47remember walking through the jail and by
1:14:49the time I got back to the cell block
1:14:51the entire jail knew about this because
1:14:54I don't I don't even know how they knew
1:14:56about it but they knew and I remember
1:14:59later on the day I spoke to one of my
1:15:01Lords who did the main argument and he
1:15:04was on a train ride up to New York and
1:15:07he said more you guys actually had a
1:15:08dream last Friday and you really get a
1:15:10favorable decision tonight I said come
1:15:11on Steve he was no serious and Bruce I
1:15:15think worked out what do they call like
1:15:17a paper bail and the DA the guy who try
1:15:21to keep me in jail all this time so it's
1:15:23gonna take months to get Marty down the
1:15:25Bruce it will do you mind if I call the
1:15:26sheriff up so he can kind of speed this
1:15:28long Bruce Lee do whatever you want to
1:15:29do Bruce spoke to chef Vincent DeMarco
1:15:32and vincent said get me a quarter I'll
1:15:34get a man as quickly as possible I was
1:15:37brought down the day after Christmas and
1:15:41hammers were everywhere and December 27
1:15:442007 I was released and you can go back
1:15:47and watch some of the videos but there's
1:15:49some things you don't see because I was
1:15:52originally supposed to go back to the
1:15:53jail to get released but Bruce had such
1:15:56a good relationship with the court staff
1:15:57there and they believed in me and they
1:15:59want to get me out as quickly as
1:16:00possible I went at the back door of the
1:16:02sheriff's custody I remember coming out
1:16:04the back door and his helicopters flying
1:16:06over and there's just crowds of people
1:16:08and like there's only one thing but I
1:16:10got to go back into the courthouse I'm
1:16:11like why I just got released and I
1:16:15remember everyone's walking quickly I
1:16:17said can we just slow it why don't you
1:16:18know are you okay I'm like if
1:16:20my first steps of freedom let me enjoy
1:16:23this so I never have to go back into the
1:16:25courthouse say wherever I was saying and
1:16:29it was actually a funny thing happened
1:16:32afterwards because of the amount of
1:16:33people there they had bodyguards or
1:16:36goons that took me out and little did I
1:16:39know I don't know what cell phones were
1:16:40really everybody had their cell phones
1:16:42on silent so we're in a courthouse so
1:16:45when I left they were trying to get a
1:16:46hold the two guys that got me because
1:16:48here I'm in the million dollars bail
1:16:50and more he's gone nobody could find
1:16:51Marty and it wasn't until we got to the
1:16:54gas station every saw we got to turn our
1:16:55cell phones on so that day we went back
1:16:57to my family's house and he was all
1:16:59about food they had food catered from
1:17:03one of my favorite restaurants from when
1:17:04I was a kid and the medias talked me so
1:17:10every time I came in on my family's
1:17:11house they stalk me so my family had a
1:17:14house in Pennsylvania and I had fairly
1:17:16flying from California my a Marianne my
1:17:19Uncle Mike my cousin Jenny and the
1:17:21interesting thing is we had to play this
1:17:23kind of cat-and-mouse game with the
1:17:24press because we wanted some privacy
1:17:27time here it was six thousand three
1:17:30hundred thirty eight days in prison
1:17:31I'm free like I want to get away from
1:17:34everybody so the press were camped out
1:17:36front
1:17:36my family impacts a car by go out the
1:17:38front door and like bye they drive away
1:17:41I go out the back door the house through
1:17:43the woods over the fence to a parking
1:17:45lot my family's around there I Drive
1:17:48away we're Pennsylvania we call the
1:17:49press at Morrie's not home they said yes
1:17:51he is he's home we've been washing the
1:17:52house and you can watch the back of the
1:17:53house so and there's some great times
1:17:57because I remember it was New Year's
1:17:59when I went away and went skiing when
1:18:02eating and they didn't care how many
1:18:06times I fell like here I was up on an
1:18:08elk mountain in Pennsylvania okay and
1:18:10somebody said was the lefty loosy [ __ ]
1:18:1217 F years ago they said you worried I'm
1:18:14like what's the worst could happen I
1:18:16break my leg I'm free no big deal
1:18:19so since then about three weeks after
1:18:22that I enrolled at Hofstra University I
1:18:24started my bachelor's degree
1:18:27in January of 2009 did a semester abroad
1:18:30in Venice Italy as part of the Hofstra
1:18:32program which really was funny because I
1:18:35could get a passport because the past
1:18:38brainer she kept think I had a criminal
1:18:39conviction and we had a fight to get
1:18:42that all cleared up and one of the best
1:18:44lines that some defense team said look
1:18:46what our year makes a year ago we were
1:18:48fighting to get him out of prison from
1:18:50doing 50 years to life and year later
1:18:52were trying to get him out the country
1:18:53and I remember when I was over in Venice
1:18:56there was an older student there he was
1:18:58about 25 he said hey no worries
1:19:00what made you say I go to college later
1:19:02on a life is like did you run out of
1:19:04money or something here it was 37 twice
1:19:08your age I said he's something like that
1:19:11mark and there was about six months
1:19:12later I was on The Oprah Show and he saw
1:19:15it he goes now I get why you went to
1:19:17school later on in life but since then I
1:19:19completed my bachelor's degree I went on
1:19:21to law school I've taken the ube nfm the
1:19:24bar anymore it's ube
1:19:26I'm waiting for admission in three
1:19:28different jurisdictions I spoken in your
1:19:31class three times now I've testified
1:19:34before the NYPD the New York State
1:19:36Assembly I'm a big proponent that no
1:19:42matter what struggles you've been
1:19:44through you can overcome two and if you
1:19:47encounter exonerees they are probably
1:19:51the least bitter and some of the most
1:19:53passionate and gentle people you'll ever
1:19:55meet
1:19:56okay because most people say aren't you
1:19:59angry aren't you bitter hell yeah but am
1:20:03I going to let that anger a bitter
1:20:05control my life if I let the anger
1:20:07bitter control my life I'm not living
1:20:09I'm letting everyone else win I've
1:20:12gotten married since I've been out I've
1:20:14adopted my daughter I scheduled start
1:20:17teaching I'm living life okay I mean was
1:20:23the adjustment difficult absolutely you
1:20:26know most people don't understand the
1:20:29the reintegration process is a long
1:20:32process you know some people think it
1:20:35can happen easily how many people in
1:20:39this room are
1:20:4121-under raise your hands imagine what's
1:20:45transpired in your entire life of just
1:20:48technology so imagine you lost 21 years
1:20:52of your life and came out into the world
1:20:55that it was today okay would you know
1:20:58what an iPhone was okay
1:21:01the first exposure I had to the Internet
1:21:03was I was being held at NASA County Jail
1:21:06and had dial-up they wouldn't dial-up
1:21:08was okay high-speed Internet what was
1:21:11that
1:21:12the day I got out they set me up with an
1:21:14email they gave me a cell phone I mean
1:21:17and for me going through college was
1:21:20probably one of those difficult things I
1:21:23did because here I was 37 just served 17
1:21:27half years in prison
1:21:28and I said to myself I'm a goldfish in a
1:21:31sea of sharks and I've spoken to other
1:21:34exonerees and they feel the same ways
1:21:35because none of us were on par with all
1:21:38the other students this first technology
1:21:40goes social interaction and there are
1:21:43some exonerees that I know today who've
1:21:45been out 10 years 15 years who still
1:21:48can't socialize I was down at Georgetown
1:21:51University giving a lecture and there
1:21:53were four exonerees three the exonerees
1:21:56went out we all went out as a group me I
1:22:00could talk to anybody this other
1:22:01exoneree gravitates to the same type of
1:22:03people and I always get the same
1:22:05question how do you do it morning they
1:22:08just do I mean I worked at Amy's firm I
1:22:11think I got along with everybody there
1:22:12I've got with clients before I mean my
1:22:16wife has kind of a running joke she'll
1:22:18go into a room sometimes when we're at
1:22:20some new place and she hopes either was
1:22:22somebody who was in this room we served
1:22:23almost 20 years in prison could you
1:22:24guess who it is and when she eventually
1:22:26introduces me like that that's not him
1:22:28there's no way possible and I get that
1:22:31all over the place but you know if you
1:22:34want to about what I'm doing - so today
1:22:37st. Francis tomorrow's for Law School
1:22:39Thursday and Friday's Georgetown
1:22:41University Thursday is James Madison
1:22:45it's something I enjoy doing because
1:22:48students are really the future and so
1:22:52often students say what can we
1:22:54how can you make the system better how
1:22:56great change the system
1:22:57there is so much you can do you have
1:22:59social media he's powerful beyond
1:23:02imagination there is a case Marcellus
1:23:05Williams was just facing the death
1:23:08penalty and I forget what state it was
1:23:10and there were some people that I knew
1:23:12that got involved and they use social
1:23:14media to convince the governor to stop
1:23:17the execution
1:23:18and I think back to when I was first
1:23:22arrested had there been social media
1:23:25what would have happened and if you look
1:23:28at a lot of the wrongful conviction
1:23:30cases nowadays social medias used almost
1:23:33every one of them they create websites
1:23:35they create instagrams and Twitter
1:23:37accounts it's powerful we have a few
1:23:43minutes for Q&A that was wonderful thank
1:23:45you so much Marvin what should I think I
1:23:52don't like to say it runs rampant I
1:23:54think what ends up happening is I know
1:23:56Bruce's say this because these
1:23:58institutional blinders and I had this
1:24:00conversation with somebody in law
1:24:03enforcement in the DA's office recently
1:24:04so you have a detective who thinks he's
1:24:08doing the right thing he presents what
1:24:11he thinks is the right evidence to a
1:24:12prosecutor the problem is that they
1:24:14prosecutor the detective who have worked
1:24:16with each other for 10 years 15 years
1:24:18they have a trust with each other the
1:24:20prosecutor doesn't challenge what the
1:24:23detective brought to him he assumes it's
1:24:25the truth
1:24:26that's a problem and we've seen in Kings
1:24:29County when Ken Thompson was alive how
1:24:31many woeful conviction cases arose out
1:24:34of Lewis Scarcella a lot of those cases
1:24:36it's probably because the prosecutors
1:24:38never questioned what Lewis Scott where
1:24:40celebrant what also happens is a lot of
1:24:43times yes really
1:24:44the prosecutor's office is the most
1:24:45powerful law enforcement body in every
1:24:49jurisdiction
1:24:49she just got indicted two years ago I
1:24:52know that's rampid okay he's he's way
1:24:55too nice I was military finished okay so
1:24:57chief Burke was the Suffolk County
1:25:00police chief who actually happened to be
1:25:02the police chief during my reinvestment
1:25:05nation who worked in the DA's office and
1:25:08I can go back to when in the
1:25:11reinvestigation on my 440 Spota the
1:25:15chief DA had represented McCready in
1:25:18private practice in an assault case so
1:25:22they had a trade client privilege
1:25:23McLaren client relationship we said
1:25:26that's a clear conflict because how does
1:25:28the G investigate his former clients the
1:25:31DA turns around says I'm gonna appoint
1:25:33somebody special in this office that has
1:25:34no contact with water-walking thing
1:25:37Walter Walker thing worked with a treaty
1:25:40in the eighties so is corruption
1:25:44ancestress relationships exist beyond
1:25:47belief okay and what's happening now is
1:25:50I think social media I think the public
1:25:53is demanding more when we go out and
1:25:56we're walking along the streets and
1:25:57we're seeing police brutality there was
1:26:00a few years ago where there was the bike
1:26:01race that came through New York City
1:26:03many may remember this when they were
1:26:05filming it and the police officers wrote
1:26:08the reports and all of us in the video
1:26:10taped evidence came out which completely
1:26:11contradicted it there was the case I
1:26:14think it was in the Bronx or Brooklyn or
1:26:16two brothers or they met her on a bar
1:26:18and the dentist said they were dealing
1:26:20drugs in the bar the detectives didn't
1:26:24know that the brothers had a secret
1:26:25videotape system in the bar and when the
1:26:28video came down and show that they
1:26:29weren't there they went they weren't
1:26:31dealing drugs
1:26:32all those things are story to really
1:26:34expose what many of us have known Amy
1:26:37probably more than anybody should be
1:26:39news for 30 years there is rampant
1:26:41corruption there's these ancestral
1:26:43relationships and people in our
1:26:46community have been exposed to it more
1:26:48than others the world it's based on
1:26:52their base ISM you know their biases and
1:26:55and racism and they don't even know that
1:26:56they're racists or they're you know
1:27:00they're you know I mean just looking
1:27:02like Harvey Weinstein right I mean all
1:27:04these women in Hollywood you know
1:27:05so-called feminists right and nobody
1:27:07even spoke out when they knew that he
1:27:08was like you know abusing women left and
1:27:10right so people just put up with the
1:27:12institutionalized behavior and they just
1:27:14allow it to happen but unfortunately
1:27:17it's it
1:27:19so prevalent and prosecutors now it's
1:27:24just coming to the point where the legal
1:27:26system and judges are coming down on
1:27:29prosecutors for withholding exculpatory
1:27:31evidence it's evidence proving
1:27:33somebody's innocence so those were
1:27:36issues that were very prevalent in
1:27:37Marty's case right withholding
1:27:39withholding evidence that's favorable
1:27:41for the defense and it's only now after
1:27:44all this time when we knew that this was
1:27:47going on and defense lawyers have been
1:27:49fighting about this for years before I
1:27:51even got into the practice you know 28
1:27:5429 years ago but now everybody is waking
1:27:57up why because we have proof DNA we have
1:28:02video what marty was talking about proof
1:28:05so now it's not his word against her
1:28:09word and it's the people in power who
1:28:10were able to lie cover it up exist
1:28:13that's why I say Harvey Weinstein right
1:28:15power money cut can can allow these
1:28:18cover-ups to go on with nobody even
1:28:21being able to challenge it but now you
1:28:23know when I have clients and they say
1:28:25well what happens if they come back to
1:28:26my house I'm like keep your phone on
1:28:28keep recording don't stop recording
1:28:31record you have a right to record and
1:28:33record as you should your civil arisia
1:28:38actually has an app now they actually
1:28:40have a really good app that if you get
1:28:43arrested you just hit the app and I
1:28:45think it starts to record it will upload
1:28:47the recording directly through their
1:28:48website but if you want to talk epidemic
1:28:52of wrongful convictions last we got an
1:28:54opportunity to speak to a group of
1:28:56lawyers law professors that were from
1:28:58China Japan Taiwan and Vietnam and I
1:29:02didn't realize that even though there
1:29:03were cultural differences the problems
1:29:06of criminal justice and wrongful
1:29:08convictions are almost exactly the same
1:29:11no matter where you are in the world I
1:29:13mean some of their issues are even worse
1:29:15I mean I heard one story where I think
1:29:16it's Japan or China you can be held by
1:29:19law enforcement for 35 days without
1:29:21access to counsel but somebody else had
1:29:25a question go ahead
1:29:34we don't know exactly but we know she's
1:29:37benefiting financially from my
1:29:38conviction and people have said that she
1:29:40had some relationships to freedom and
1:29:45maccreedy she was with the detectives
1:29:46she was definitely on the other side
1:29:48like the detectives got to her and she
1:29:50was like she would play tennis with
1:29:51McCready's wait for something 2004 still
1:30:04not there because the case is still
1:30:06pending and the truth is still out there
1:30:09I mean I still have a civil rights
1:30:12pending and I have a private
1:30:14investigator who's been at my last month
1:30:16and is finding out more evidence and I
1:30:18think until all the truth gets out there
1:30:21the mourning period there's a daily
1:30:23morning but the the full mornings never
1:30:26gonna go nuts all the truth gets out so
1:30:28like McCready when he talks his crap up
1:30:30there we videotaped his deposition okay
1:30:33so he's dead now so we'll never get to
1:30:35cross-examine him when people see what
1:30:38he said and he admitted how he lured him
1:30:40into what he did I think people will see
1:30:43him every sad summer somebody say what
1:30:45is your people to know I said I'm an
1:30:47innocence from day one
1:30:48I'm stillness and I'll always be
1:30:50innocent I want everything to come out I
1:30:52want people to see what happened to me
1:30:55because I've said if it can happen to me
1:31:01thank you everybody
1:31:03[Applause]
1:31:12you

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