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Martin (Marty) Tankleff; "A Question of Guilt" — Transcript

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0:03after 17 turbulent years as a criminal
0:05court judge in New York presiding over
0:07many high-profile cases Stuart Nam
0:10received the Justice thur Good Marshall
0:12and David Michaels Awards as a champion
0:14of individual rights and for courage in
0:17exposing Injustice examining the
0:20evidence and newly discovered facts
0:21wherever they may lead he continues to
0:24investigate the claims of prisoners
0:25throughout the US who profess their
0:27innocence
0:29[Music]
0:39n
0:42[Music]
1:02F asked the defendant Martin tankleff as
1:06to count two murder second to Great
1:10y on September 7th 1988 began one of the
1:14most troubling criminal cases in
1:15American law the trial of Martin
1:17tankleff for the murder of his parents a
1:20complex story of a contested confession
1:22millions of dollars and multiple
1:26suspects all right hold on and I'll
1:29connect
1:31I'm connecting you with the
1:34[Music]
1:36ambulance Fire Res 763 sees drop and Bel
1:40whoa whoa whoa I can't hear you what is
1:42it 33 sees drop and Bell te 33 C dri M
1:48off Crooked Oak Road Mel please my whoa
1:51whoa hold on I can't write that fast
1:54corner street three it's off Crooked Oak
1:57Road Crooked Oak yes
2:01yes what's your no no no answer my
2:03question what's your name Marty tank
2:06from his son he's gushing BL from the
2:08back of his neck with that frantic call
2:10to the 911 emergency operator the
2:13perplexing tale began to
2:15unfold more than 10 years ago I became
2:18absolutely intrigued by the facts of the
2:22tank Liff story I was so fascinated by
2:25this case that I actually sat in as a
2:27spectator during the course of the trial
2:31now that interest was rekindled about 5
2:33years ago when I received letters from
2:36mty and members of his
2:39[Music]
2:40family as I pondered the facts and the
2:42evidence in this case I wondered how the
2:45jury reached his verdict was Marty
2:47innocent and set up as he claimed or was
2:51he a sociopath who was truly guilty of
2:53the brutal murders of his parents Arlene
2:56and Seymour
2:58tankleff Marty who was 17 when his
3:01parents met their untimely deaths was
3:03adopted when 3 days old although Arlene
3:06was Christian he was brought up in the
3:08Jewish faith of his birth mother under
3:10idilic circumstances in the exclusive
3:12Northshore community of
3:15belter absolutely wonderful memories um
3:18it was uh great it was exclusive uh we
3:21lived in a small community in the Port
3:23Jefferson area of Long
3:25Island um because my father owned his
3:27own business he was
3:30he was relatively successful um he was
3:33tankleff insurance
3:34company um I went to a public school uh
3:38Earl vand Mand uh in a relatively small
3:42community um a lot of the individuals
3:44there were affluent um middle class
3:48individuals um and it was a great
3:50livelihood um we enjoyed the
3:53pleasantries of living in a small
3:55Waterfront area uh which included going
3:57to the beaches and fishing and traveling
4:00it was just a really great
4:03childhood it was important for me to
4:05talk to Ron falby and his wife Carol
4:07Marty's cousins as Ron was executive of
4:10the estate and Marty's legal guardian I
4:12was seeking the views of someone really
4:15close to the family uh Marty's
4:17relationship with uh with Seymour was uh
4:20um he highed his father he uh Seymour
4:23was like a mentor you know if if you
4:25will for uh with with business and
4:27everything else Marty um learned a lot
4:30from his father
4:32Seymour uh I I think lived through Marty
4:35in a way of uh just enjoying the things
4:39that Marty had in other words they got a
4:40boat you know Marty Marty wanted a boat
4:43so Seymour got him a boat and uh I think
4:45he did that as much for Marty as he did
4:47it for himself uh the big wheel trucks
4:49and the uh all the other nonsense you
4:51know they they enjoyed doing a lot of
4:53things together I think the age
4:55difference was so great that he felt
4:59more like
5:00my son than my brother so it was hard
5:03for us to you know um have a camaraderie
5:07that you would normally have with you
5:09know siblings that are closer in age he
5:12was uh an outgoing kid he was on the
5:15Wimpy side uh he was a little he always
5:19would would uh chase after the girls uh
5:22he
5:24was I don't know he he he was my friend
5:28you know uh he was a little bratty when
5:30he was a kid as I think
5:33all little children
5:36are um but he certainly grew up to be a
5:40sweet concerned young man there was no
5:44way to tell this story without hearing
5:46Marty's version of the events of
5:48September 7th 1988 firsthand so I was
5:52quite excited to hear that I had been
5:53granted clearance to meet with him after
5:56some tense negotiations with the state
5:58prison authorities
5:59[Music]
6:02Clinton Correctional Facility is
6:04situated just outside the city of
6:06platsburg in the small village of damura
6:10opposite the aptly named breakout Saloon
6:13close to the Canadian
6:15border the gloomy landscape of the
6:18village is dominated by the massive
6:20concrete Prison Walls and guard
6:23[Music]
6:25towers it was hard to believe that I was
6:28finally going to meet the man with whom
6:30I had been communicating by mail for
6:32more than 5
6:34years as I approached the largest
6:37maximum security facility in the state
6:38of New York the entire atmosphere seemed
6:42somewhat surreal but for Martin tankleff
6:45this was
6:46[Music]
6:51reality I was shortly to hear about the
6:54morning he will never forget
6:57[Music]
7:00I'm going to take you back now Marty to
7:02September 7th 1988 can you tell us your
7:06best recollection of what time you woke
7:08up and what it is you did when you first
7:10woke up that morning uh waking up in the
7:13morning um shortly before
7:166 um how did you know it was before 6 I
7:19had an alarm clock uh it was the first
7:21day of school so I remember wanting to
7:23get up a little bit early because it was
7:25the first day uh went out of my room um
7:29uh first thing I noticed which was a
7:30little odd was all the lights were
7:33on um all the lights throughout the
7:35house were on all the lights were
7:36throughout the house uh and when I woke
7:39in my room I looked outside and I saw
7:40lights on which was would be unusual
7:43tell us about the area the physical uh
7:47location layout of of from your room to
7:50you say you looked into your parents
7:51room okay well there's a somewhat large
7:54quter um between the two rooms um and
7:58there's actually a four hallway that
8:01leads into their room on either side of
8:03that little hallway there are two
8:05closets one's in the outer area and one
8:07is on the inner area um in addition
8:10there's if you come out of my room and
8:13you go straight and you make a left
8:14there's a bathroom there uh if you make
8:16a right you go into the main area of the
8:19home and you looked into the bedroom mhm
8:22and what if anything where were you when
8:25you looked into to the bedroom best of
8:27my Rel I walk like just slightly into
8:29the door away okay and could you see
8:31anything no so nothing in the bedroom
8:33nothing in the bedroom could you see
8:34your mom could you see your father no
8:36okay what did you do then um after that
8:38I started walking into the main area of
8:40the house um and noticed that the front
8:43door was open which the front door was
8:45open was open a little bit which was
8:47very strange um you know just you know
8:50since we had an alarm system it was
8:52always common just to keep all the doors
8:54locked um as I proceeded through the
8:57house all the lights were on but I
8:58didn't see any anybody uh once again
9:01this just felt very strange because it
9:03was never you know in all my years of
9:04living there I'd never experienced
9:06something like that well were you scared
9:08I don't know if I was scared just
9:10uncomfortable I don't know I don't know
9:12if it were you concerned concerned yeah
9:14because it just didn't seem right um and
9:18so you started looking around the house
9:20started going through the house the
9:22house is a ranch style house so you
9:24basically just walked you know from one
9:25end to the other of it okay where was
9:27the next place you went to then um the
9:29living room uh from the living room into
9:33the kitchen area um from there I kept
9:35walking uh and noticed that the door to
9:39the greenhouse was open where did where
9:42were you heading at that point uh into
9:43the gym office area where the card game
9:46was the night before and when you
9:48arrived there with the lights on there
9:50yes and what did you see when you
9:51arrived there uh my father was there and
9:54where was your father sitting in his um
9:56office chair can you describe what you
9:58saw as you arrived in the
10:01room um a nightmare a
10:05Devastation
10:07um something you you couldn't
10:10imagine um he was well see we we weren't
10:13there I want you to tell us as best as
10:15you it's hard to describe it because um
10:19it was a nightmare I mean he was
10:20actually seated at his desk seated at
10:22his desk there was blood on
10:24him
10:27um he was gagging
10:29um which um I later found out was uh he
10:33was trying to gag for
10:34air um were his eyes open I don't
10:38remember uhhuh um I started screaming
10:40and yelling but what did he
10:42scream I I don't remember the exact
10:44words it was just you know complete
10:47Panic um and what did you do I remember
10:50you know running over to him screaming
10:51at him Dad Dad um I remember did you
10:54touch
10:56him I at that point I don't think I did
10:59did um I know after IID called 911 I did
11:03when when you said Dad Dad did he
11:05responded anyway and he was gagging yes
11:08and what did you do at that at that
11:09point um I called 911 where where were
11:13you when you called 911 I believe I ran
11:15into the kitchen to call 91 is there was
11:18there a phone on your dad's desk yes but
11:20you didn't use that phone no um why you
11:24know I've been asked why I was about to
11:25ask you why did you not that I I don't
11:28know if it was just sheer Terror what I
11:30saw in that room um I don't know there's
11:35no you know I don't I don't think
11:37anybody can really answer why he's
11:39gushing blood please all right listen to
11:42me is this a private house yes it is all
11:45right now listen way listen to me I'm
11:49sending you an ambulance I want you to
11:50take a clean towel yes wrap wherever
11:53he's gushing blood from hold pressure on
11:56it lay him down if possible get his Fe
11:59feet elevated and we'll have someone
12:00down there for you
12:03okay uh remember running back to my room
12:08getting a towel and I remember getting a
12:10pillow from somewhere I don't even
12:12remember where now um because my father
12:15was in the chair I had to get him out of
12:18the
12:18chair um and somehow I did I don't
12:22remember how exactly but I did you have
12:24no recollection of how you got him out
12:25of the chair no um you know I I don't
12:28know if I lifted him out whether I
12:30pulled him out um but I know I was able
12:33to get him out of the chair and was he
12:34still bleeding yes can you describe
12:37again well
12:39the you know I don't know if if he was
12:41actually bleeding I don't think that was
12:43a primary concern I think I was more
12:44interested in helping him you know and
12:47all I remember doing was elevating his
12:49feet with the pillow um and placing the
12:52towel over the wound okay and you were
12:56screaming for your mother yes and what
12:58what what did you do then um started
13:00running from room to room to
13:02room um and end up running and I I
13:06remember going to the garage looking to
13:08see if the cars were out okay none of
13:10the cars were out um started going
13:13through the rooms okay didn't never find
13:16anything um finally I went back into my
13:19parents' room and I saw her there on the
13:21floor where was she on the floor uh on
13:24the other side of her
13:26bed the curtains were open a little bit
13:30um and after the fact I learned that
13:32there was a TV on the whole time uh with
13:35the volume off what were you frightened
13:38absolutely well tell us something about
13:40that fear that you had in you it was it
13:44was a combination it it was
13:47frightened um
13:49Devastation
13:50confusion uh wasn't really sure if this
13:53was
13:54reality it was 6:15 in the morning I got
13:57a phone call uh woke me up at a deep
13:59sleep and I looked at the clock when the
14:03phone rang cuz you're startled out of a
14:04sleep so you want to see what time it is
14:06and it the clock's right about 6:15 and
14:09I picked up the phone and Marty was on
14:11the other end of the line and he said
14:13get over
14:14here I said what's the matter he
14:17said agitated not hysterical
14:21agitated uh something happened to my
14:24parents what do you mean something
14:25happened to your parents I don't know
14:28something happened to to my
14:30parents I said well you'll have to be a
14:32little bit more specific Marty I don't
14:34what are you talking
14:35about and he said I think they're
14:38dead and my first inclination was that
14:41he was like sleepwalking and he was
14:43imagining the whole thing in his head
14:45and I said Marty what are you talking
14:46about and that's when he screamed to me
14:48just get over here and he hung up the
14:51phone well he called uh hysterically
14:55crying
14:56and saying something happened to his
14:59parents something happened to his
15:00parents
15:01and it was you know I W I was sleeping I
15:04woke up and I got this phone and I
15:07didn't know what he was saying he was
15:09hysterical I at that point figured there
15:11was nothing I could do since I'd already
15:12called 911 that I you know better leave
15:16just just in case there was somebody
15:18else there did you have any other
15:20thoughts at that time no so you left the
15:24house you went knocked on the neighbor's
15:26door the neighbor responded Yes and what
15:28happened then um like I said within
15:31maybe 30 seconds to a minute um a police
15:34car drove up um and at some point I
15:37started was started to be questioned by
15:39um what I Leed learned were
15:42detectives when I first got to the scene
15:44I believe there were three police
15:45officers uh at the scene they had the
15:48scene taped off and I observed a young
15:52male uh sitting on a railroad tie wall
15:56uh partially up the driveway uh when I
15:59spoke to the offices about what they had
16:02uh I asked him who that person was and
16:04he advised me that he was the victim son
16:08what happened where did you go last
16:09night who do you think did this uh why
16:12do you think this happened what's your
16:14name uh it was just you know one
16:16question after another one of the first
16:18things he said to me as I recall was uh
16:21actually I think it was the almost the
16:22very first thing he said to me was uh I
16:25know who did this and I I was I remember
16:28being taken AB asked someone I said how
16:30do you know who did this and he said
16:31because it was my father's business
16:33partner um I said Jerry Sturman now why
16:36did you say Jerry
16:38stor he had my father a lot of money and
16:42my father's Business Partnership and
16:45relationship was
16:46deteriorating uh and he explained to me
16:48that they had some sort of a big
16:50argument over Bagel business and after
16:54he explained that to me uh my I uh
16:57started asking him about what time he
16:59went to bed and I I asked him what
17:01transpired the night before and uh he
17:04explained to me about how the card game
17:06was uh running and everything and that
17:08uh uh who who the people were at the
17:11card game we know there was a card game
17:13that night we know it went till 3:00 in
17:14the morning we know that uh that stewman
17:17stayed behind to talk with with Seymour
17:19tankleff we know that a card player came
17:22back in uh after everybody left and
17:26found the conversation was very heated
17:28and and not type of situation that he
17:29wanted to interrupt um and he
17:32[Music]
17:44left I'm turning into Seaside drive now
17:46here in
17:48beler it was at number
17:5133 where the tankle family lived the
17:54good life high above the Waters of the
17:57Long Island Sound
17:59and on our left the house with the
18:01Halloween
18:03decorations right
18:05here is the
18:08home of Seymour and Arlene
18:11tankleff where they were found that
18:14morning of September 7th
18:171988 in front of this driveway on my
18:21left Marty tankleff was seated Barefoot
18:25on the hood of a police vehicle being
18:28questioned by detectives mccre and Ryan
18:31I was moved to basically the driveway of
18:34the neighbor's house which was 15 to 200
18:38ft away from the driveway of my house
18:40and did they direct you to go there or
18:43yes who who was it that directed you to
18:45go there best of my recollection was
18:46mccre uh we we had brought him over by
18:49our police car and he was sitting uh he
18:52was sitting up on the hood of the police
18:54car uh again in a very relaxed position
18:57uh uh
18:59very relaxed mode and at this point and
19:02throughout the whole morning I was
19:02barefoot still wearing the shorts still
19:05wearing the sweats sweater sweatshirt at
19:08what point in your mind did Marty
19:11tankleff become a suspect in that
19:14case um it was about 8 about 8:35 in the
19:17morning and what is it that made him a
19:20suspect in your mind the inconsistencies
19:23in the evidence that I saw and the story
19:25that he
19:26told while Marty was being Rel
19:28relentlessly questioned by the
19:30detectives his father was transported to
19:32the emergency room of the local hospital
19:34he was immediately moved to University
19:36Hospital for neurosurgery in a desperate
19:39effort to save his life he was in a coma
19:42from which he was never to
19:44recover at this very moment this
19:46incredible case might have turned
19:48dramatically with the arrival at the
19:50crime scene of this man myON Fox and
19:53when I mentioned Uncle Mike both their
19:55heads turned and looked
19:57away um and they looked away I turned
19:59around and I saw my Uncle Mike's
20:01car and I said and as a matter of fact
20:04there's Uncle Mike now and you said
20:05there's Uncle Mike there's unle mccr
20:07took off running I went over and and
20:10spoke to him uh he introduced himself to
20:13me uh as a matter of fact I think he
20:15even gave me one of his business cards
20:17and as I
20:19recall um and I explained to him that we
20:22were in the process of interviewing uh U
20:26Marty and uh I'm trying to I don't
20:29remember what he said I think he was I
20:31think he said something about he was
20:32going to go to the hospital or whatever
20:34and if I needed anything I should
20:35contact him there at the hospital that's
20:39did he did he ever tell you that he
20:40represented Marty or oh absolutely not
20:42that came up during the course of the
20:43trial uh that man outright lied through
20:46his teeth about that there's just no way
20:48I mean if he if when when he finally did
20:51come forward and say that that was
20:53sometime about one one something in the
20:57afternoon I remember the 120 something
21:00like that 122 something like that uh
21:03when he did finally say that all
21:06questioning was stopped of of of Marty
21:08tankleff at that time so if he had said
21:10that to you that morning before 8:30
21:13what would you have done I would have
21:14stopped talking to the kid I mean it was
21:16I wouldn't have had any choice and at
21:19that point it was when I said to I don't
21:20if it was mccre Ryan or the other I want
21:22to go to the hospital uh mccree's
21:25response will take you there never ever
21:27once asked to go to the hospital or
21:29didn't even ask about his father how he
21:31was doing we ended up actually getting
21:33to a point of travel where we were nowh
21:36than near the hospital I said where are
21:38we going I said I want to go to the
21:39hospital he said well I'll take you
21:41there later he said but I need to take
21:42you to yaang to get a statement from you
21:45I said no I want to go to the hospital
21:46he said no he said we're going to go to
21:48yank he said we need some more
21:50information on Jerry
21:51stewman Marty was taken from the crime
21:54scene directly to the back entrance of
21:56police headquarters it was here in a
21:58windowless room that interview became
22:02interrogation the room was very small um
22:06there were points where I was basically
22:09Cordon into a little corner um and there
22:12were times that Ryan was on one side of
22:14me had his hands on my knees or my
22:16shoulders and he was trying to comfort
22:18me um there were other times that he was
22:21up screaming
22:23yelling um there were also times when
22:25mccre was on the other side of the desk
22:27screaming yelling at me what would they
22:30say to you um you know enough of this
22:33already we know you did it you know just
22:35tell us you did it that's all we need to
22:36hear that's all we want to know um but
22:39you know they weren't the only ones I
22:40can remember you know later in the day I
22:43don't know what time it was uh I believe
22:45it was Sergeant Doyle you know who threw
22:47me up against the wall I once had to go
22:50to a a periodontist to have some work
22:52done and uh my my gums unfortunately
22:55were bleeding and I I went to the
22:57dentist about 11:30 at night he shot
23:00adrenaline into my gums and stopped the
23:02bleeding and I don't I it was based on
23:05that that I came up with this idea that
23:08his father you know he obviously he
23:09knows his father was bleeding we're
23:10talking about blood blood blood so I
23:12walked over to the one desk dialed the
23:15extension for the desk closest to the
23:17interview room and when that rang I got
23:19up and walked over there and answered my
23:21own phone call and I just made like I
23:23had I was having a conversation with my
23:25comedy and uh after that conversation I
23:29hung up and I said Marty I said that was
23:31the detective I spoke to before he's at
23:33the hospital I said they just told me
23:35that your father they pumped them full
23:37of adrenaline and they came out of the
23:40coma and he's saying it's you Mar you're
23:42the one that did it and I remember mccre
23:45coming in uh kind of pushing me into the
23:49corner with his finger she po pointed
23:51his finger into my chest and said Marty
23:55we got
23:56you had no idea what he was talking
23:58about he said well we just pumped your
24:00father full of adrenaline and he said
24:03you did it he said we've got it on tape
24:06and he wants you to tell us why you did
24:08it and that's when I said no way he's
24:11lying that's not true I didn't do
24:13anything they came a point when you tell
24:16them what they wanted to hear why would
24:19you do that it was a way to escape the
24:22confines of that environment you know
24:26was the truth no you know they want
24:28wanted to hear lies they were told lies
24:30so what did you tell
24:32them whatever they wanted to hear it's
24:35significant that Martin tankleff was 17
24:37years old and had no experience with the
24:39police when this interrogation had
24:40occurred they led him to believe through
24:43their evidence PLO that he committed a
24:46crime that he had no memory of they told
24:48him falsely that there was evidence of
24:51his guilt in this crime which there
24:53wasn't they told him that there was a
24:54humidity test that showed he had taken a
24:57shower to clean off the blood there was
24:59no such humidity test they told him that
25:01his father had woken up from a coma at
25:04the hospital and identified him as the
25:07perpetrator in fact that had not
25:09occurred Martin tankleff reasoned that
25:11the evidence demonstrated he was guilty
25:14he must have done something and he tried
25:16to retrieve memories of of the crime and
25:19his confession statement to the police
25:21is an attempt to satisfy their need to
25:24come up with an explanation for their
25:26false evidence p
25:29I received a call from Mike Fox who was
25:32very close to Seymour tankleff and the
25:34entire family he called me I guess about
25:37uh 12:45 1:00 in the afternoon saying
25:40that um uh he identified himself saying
25:44that there was a real problem that Marty
25:46the the son of Seymour and Arlene
25:47tankleff was down at homicide
25:50headquarters was being questioned and he
25:51was now concerned that they were
25:53thinking that he might be a suspect uh
25:55he knew of me and uh I said stop the
25:59conversation let's hang up as I want to
26:01call over my recollection is there were
26:02a couple of calls uh one was from Bob
26:06gotle who eventually did represent
26:08tankleff at the trial itself and the
26:10other one was from another attorney my
26:13recollection is a family friend if I'm
26:15not mistaken when I went to the sixth
26:18Precinct they brought me into a small
26:20room uh as a sterile room he was brought
26:23in in U in in a paper jumpsuit because
26:26they had removed his clothing and in
26:28walks Marty tankleff and he looked like
26:30a
26:32[Music]
26:41baby the police know where to look they
26:44look in the family well who was in the
26:46who's in the family that Monty tank the
26:48why is he left alive it's a crucial
26:49question mother and father are almost
26:51father's almost half dead wasn't killed
26:53out right the mother is dead Marty's
26:56alive well he becomes the suspect what
26:58do the police do they separate Marty
27:00away from his family he's isolated he's
27:02alone he's alienated he's by himself
27:05he's being questioned by police three or
27:06four times at the scene then taken away
27:08to the to the without his family without
27:10legal representation he's taking off to
27:12suff County Police Headquarters in yank
27:14I mean you can't for the the police are
27:16doing their job they think they got
27:18their man they're they're listening to
27:21his story they're looking for holes in
27:23it they thinking they they think they
27:25find something 20 Within in in 8 10
27:29hours they got their man or their boy in
27:31this case they got their boy the next
27:34time I actually heard from Marty himself
27:37he was calling me from jail but I do
27:39remember him saying to me I need you I
27:41need you to be with me and I said why
27:45and he said
27:48um I said did you tell them you did this
27:52and he said yes and I said why and he
27:55said I had to they made
28:00me now there is one very curious aspect
28:03of this case which by itself takes it
28:06out of the ordinary all of Seymour's and
28:09Arlene's relatives brother sister niece
28:13and nephew believe in Marty's innocence
28:17even until this day well I had a little
28:20time to think about um what had happened
28:23and of course I had to consider the
28:25possibility that he could do it because
28:27I didn't know all the facts and I hadn't
28:28heard everything so I waited until I saw
28:31him which I knew would be in County Jail
28:33would be the next time and I thought
28:35I'll know when I see him if he did it or
28:38not and as soon as I saw him and he
28:40brought the kleenex out to greet us I
28:42knew that there was no way that he did
28:45it I didn't believe it at that time
28:48because I knew of the relationship
28:51between Marty and his parents and it was
28:55inconceivable that it could have been
28:56Marty so I think that you know as far
28:59from physical strength no way um
29:02emotionally no way um no it's just toss
29:06it was just impossible so what you're
29:09actually saying is that this entire case
29:11against Marty tankleff rested upon the
29:16so-called confession the the prosecution
29:18uh claims and in their summation they
29:21the first ones to say you know what we
29:23have a confession but obviously the
29:25confession isn't being truthful and they
29:27can't be responsible they're just
29:29repeating to the jury what they say
29:31Marty tank said but don't believe the
29:33details of the confession because it's
29:35true there's no forensic evidence to
29:37corroborate to support what Marty uh
29:40supposedly said the only thing we want
29:42you to believe about the confession is
29:44the part where Marty said I did it there
29:47was no forensic evidence linking Marty
29:51tankleff to this brutal murder he had
29:54told me that at one point when he
29:55assisted his father that he picked it
29:58you know he had his hands had gotten
29:59bloody and then he went to look for his
30:02mother and he went to the garage and
30:04opened the garage door and there's no
30:06blood on the garage door he said then he
30:08goes to his bedroom and turns the light
30:09switch on and uh there's blood on the
30:13wall so I'm saying well how does blood
30:15get on the wall but doesn't get on the
30:16door knob when he when he turns the door
30:18knob and I had to undo a dead deadbolt
30:20to get into the garage and then he went
30:23goes and looks at his mother looks for
30:25his mother again and he's he's back and
30:27forth all over the place he couldn't
30:29keep his consistent story in terms of
30:31the amount of blood and when he got
30:33blood and when he didn't get blood on
30:35his hands and I think that was the
30:37biggest thing that tripped him
30:40up I'm about to meet with a man whom I
30:43consider to be very
30:44courageous he is an active member of the
30:48suff County Police
30:50Department he's a uniformed sergeant and
30:53he's been on the force for 23 years
30:58now he was not directly involved with
31:00the tankleff
31:01investigation but he certainly was aware
31:04of the case and he's going to tell us
31:07about the reputation of the suffa County
31:09homicide Squad back in
31:121988 back then I was a uniform patrol
31:15officer I was uh driving a sect car and
31:19uh did you know of or did you know uh
31:24detective mccre James specifically James
31:27M grey yes I did I can't say I was a
31:30personal friend but I knew him and I
31:31knew his him by reputation and what was
31:35detective mcc's reputation in the police
31:37department at that time he had a
31:40reputation of being a little
31:42uh wild man I would guess is a way I put
31:45it someone who's willing to do anything
31:47he has to do to get a case what he feels
31:50done they really didn't follow through
31:53with an investigation the way you would
31:56normally they they didn't look for
31:59forensic evidence cooperating evidence
32:02uh witnesses that might cooporate things
32:05they basically picked up who they felt
32:08was the guilty
32:09party um and would bring them to
32:13headquarters and get a confession uh and
32:17to use some of their own words they
32:19would do whatever they had to do to get
32:20that confession I didn't come from a
32:23family of three homicide detectives and
32:25a history of police work to go out and
32:27arrest innocent people you just don't do
32:29that there is no better crime to
32:31investigate than murder and it's the
32:33most exciting thing you can do did you
32:36know what what do you investigate after
32:37you investigate murder Bergman you know
32:41doesn't come close see this is what's
32:44amazing and this is why it's so clear
32:47that Marty is innocent and the so-called
32:50confession is nothing more than the
32:52police's story this this is what they
32:55thought must have happened because they
32:57also have Morty going through supposedly
32:59in great detail that he commits these
33:01murders and then before the police
33:04arrive they have him going into his
33:06bathroom taking a shower to wash off all
33:09of his blood taking a shower where if
33:12not only blood but he had to have washed
33:13off the knife and the murder weapon and
33:16you would expect or anyone listening
33:18would expect in these brutal brutal
33:20murders that somewhere in this bathroom
33:23whether it's in the crevices of the uh
33:26of of the of the shower on the on the
33:28tile in the grout or in the Trap you
33:31know going down the drain you would find
33:35maybe a piece of human
33:37tissue maybe a hair maybe some blood you
33:42know that's what you would find and the
33:44police you know they did a great job
33:45here they they they scoured the bathroom
33:48they actually took out the drain the
33:50trap to test it because they were
33:52convinced they were going to find some
33:54forensic evidence some evidence of
33:56having been used to to wash off not only
33:59Marty tank Cliffe but the murder weapon
34:01and it's negative zero nothing was in
34:04the
34:05Trap according to the police version of
34:08what took place that morning based on
34:11the alleged oral confession taken by
34:13detective mccre Marty who was naked
34:17awoke from sleep obtained a watermelon
34:20knife from the kitchen and a dumbbell
34:22bar quietly entered his mother's bedroom
34:25where he brutally stabbed and bludgeoned
34:28her to
34:31death he then walked through the house
34:34to his father's study where he found
34:36Seymour dozing behind his desk and also
34:39bludgeoned him and nearly decapitated
34:42him with a knife what's the
34:44problem leaving him comos and bleeding
34:47to death he then went into the shower
34:50where using a loofah sponge he washed
34:53away any trace of Blood and Tissue from
34:56the knife the dumbbell bar and
35:00himself within days or within moments
35:03quite frankly not only from Marty but
35:06from family members I'm learning about
35:08other things that Seymour tankleff was
35:10involved in other people who may have
35:13been involved which immediately tells me
35:15well did the police investigate these
35:17people why did they rush so quickly to
35:21arrest Marty Seymour tankleff supposedly
35:23was a retired insurance agent but with a
35:26lot of money and was involved D in an
35:28inordinate number of business deals
35:30people who potentially would have had
35:33the motive to uh to to
35:37kill as I delved deeper and deeper into
35:40the facts of this intriguing case
35:42repeatedly reviewing the crime scene
35:44video and examining the evidence I
35:47realized that there was more to this
35:49extraordinary story than met the eye Not
35:52only was there a gross lack of evidence
35:55but there were questions constantly
35:56arising which pointed in yet another
35:59Direction on the desk covered with blood
36:02or splattered with blood was a demand
36:04note from Seymour tankleff it was a copy
36:07of a demand note from Seymour tankleff
36:09sent special delivery to Jerry Sturman
36:11demanding payment of of a note and uh
36:14and if not was going to take action on
36:16the horses and various other things so I
36:20I mean how can you ignore the fact that
36:21there was you know that there was
36:22serious Financial um um disputes going
36:26on um he was very close with
36:30Jerry then they wouldn't talk then they
36:33would be very close um but towards the
36:35end it was not a very good relationship
36:39what storman did was some of the money
36:40that he had borrowed he went and bought
36:42equipment so that he could open up
36:44satellite stores throughout the county
36:46and obviously as we well know today I
36:49think he's doing very well with
36:51it so when the proceeds from the one
36:54store that was a payback disc loan when
36:56Seymour realized that how much potential
36:59there was for Jerry to make off these
37:01other satellite stores Seymour went
37:03through the roof and that's what this
37:05argument was over Seymour said I've got
37:07a chatt on that equipment and Jerry
37:10agreed with him and he said yes I know
37:11you have a chatt on the equipment but
37:13that doesn't mean you have a chatt on my
37:15satellite stores they seem to be uh
37:20going back and forth Arlene and sa and
37:22finally I sat down in the breakfast
37:23notok and I said what's wrong
37:26s and he said said well he said I want
37:28to pick up my checks
37:30from uh Jerry stewman and he he
37:34attacked me
37:36verbally he went on into detail about uh
37:40he said in front of customers in the
37:42store
37:44and grabbed him by the neck and pulled
37:48him to the counter and said you bastard
37:51you want to own me you won't be happy
37:54until you own me now you've had a lot of
37:57opportunity to examine the crime scene
38:00to go through the crime scene have you
38:03come to any conclusions or any theories
38:05as how this murder could have taken
38:07place if Marty were not involved I mean
38:09it doesn't take a very bright guy to
38:11figure out how this must have taken
38:14place because in between these two rooms
38:17on white carpeting on the floors even
38:19the tiles in some of the rooms there's
38:22no evidence of blood there's no dropping
38:25of blood so logic tells you that whoever
38:28is doing this whether it's one person
38:30two people one person must have been
38:32killed they should have shot they
38:34probably shot out the back of one of the
38:35rooms going through the sliding glass
38:37doors coming in the other room
38:40committing the murder and then leaving
38:42without going through the house back and
38:44forth between the two rooms I that's
38:47just logic and common
38:50sense but why do I need to pay it back
38:52because I've had just about
38:55[Music]
38:56enough in the belief that mty tankleff
38:59was not responsible for these murders a
39:02common theory has evolved as to how the
39:04crimes were probably committed
39:09[Music]
39:33one week after Allen's murder with
39:36Seymour still in a coma Jerry Sturman
39:39the self-proclaimed Bagel King of Long
39:40Island stages his own abduction and
39:43disappears to California changing his
39:45identity shaving off his beard and
39:48having his hairpiece
39:50rewoven the day after the murder before
39:53he fled he withdrew
39:56$115,000 from from a joint account that
39:58he had with Seymour and Arlene
40:02tankleff so while he is grieving and so
40:05upset about his good friend both Arlene
40:07and Seymour
40:08tankleff his first reaction is to go to
40:10the bank the next day and withdraw
40:13$15,000 something tells me that
40:16warranted further investigation by the
40:20police I believe we found somebody in
40:22the hotel that said that he had taken a
40:24Winston limousine or gotten they thought
40:26they somebody fit his description got
40:28into a Winston
40:29limousine then we checked with the
40:31Airlines and we found out that we had a
40:34Jerry Winston who paid cash for his uh
40:37his airline ticket well we wanted to
40:40know where he was um certainly and uh we
40:44subsequently got some information that
40:47he had called his
40:49girlfriend and uh the police were able
40:52to track down where that phone call came
40:55from and so we went out to California
40:58myself and two other two detectives went
41:00out to California to see if we could
41:02track him down well in this case here it
41:05wasn't I think we were we were more
41:07concerned with the public perception
41:09than we were of anything else and now it
41:11was just that he he created the problem
41:13he created for us was not that uh that
41:17we had to prove that he's now the
41:19murderer okay what we what the problem
41:21he created for us was that we had to do
41:2410 times the work to prove that he
41:25wasn't the murder and murderer only
41:28because of what the Public's perception
41:31was at the point he disappeared he was
41:33he was not a suspect to the police
41:36although I believe there was some um
41:40people saying that he might be a suspect
41:43but the police did not think of him as a
41:45suspect and and why was that well at
41:47that point they already had the
41:49conversation with Mr tankleff saying
41:52exactly what he had done and uh when you
41:55have a conversation by that that there
41:57there's really no reason to think that
41:59somebody else is a suspect if Jerry
42:02really wanted to get lost they wouldn't
42:04have found
42:07him and you know I know that Jerry has
42:10in the past done some rather um crazy
42:14things I remember hearing a story about
42:16uh him chaining himself to uh I don't
42:20know if the Social Security office or or
42:21the tax office or something you know
42:23until until he got results of something
42:25so I know Jerry was was you know he did
42:28crazy
42:29things after indictment the case was
42:32assigned to judge Alfred Tish in the
42:34spring of 1988 pre-trial hearings began
42:37amid all kinds of controversy in the
42:40suffer County court in Riverhead New
42:42York we go through these pre-trial
42:44hearings and there was a lot of
42:45attention it was very contentious and uh
42:48judge Alti he was a judge at the time
42:50was no longer a judge was presiding
42:53before those hearings there had been
42:55some rumors that Al Tish was interested
42:58in being the Republican nominee for
43:01district attorney everyone knew I was
43:03going to be the Democratic nominee so he
43:05was my potential rival one Sunday I
43:09believe I wake up and I pick up Newsday
43:12hour major newspaper here in Long Island
43:15and the lead article is it would appear
43:17that Alish is now going to get the
43:21nomination for the Republican from the
43:23Republican party to run against Robert
43:25godle the district attorney
43:27and the next day we were in court and
43:30there was tension the judge wouldn't
43:32even see us in Chambers he said if you
43:34have anything to say you'll say it in
43:36open court there is tension beyond
43:40belief if this conflict really existed
43:42now we were going to ask that he get
43:43himself off the case and then we'd
43:45figure out whether or not we going to
43:46have to hold hearings again or have
43:47another judge look at the the minutes we
43:49didn't even know where this was going to
43:51go after two years of being free on $1
43:54million bail and after months of
43:57hearings and trial the case was about to
43:59reach a climax for Marty with the jury
44:02verdict on June 28th
44:061990 um I remember the jury coming in
44:10and the judge saying have you reached a
44:13verdict uh the jury saying yes were you
44:15standing or seated at this point uh at
44:17that point I was
44:18seated um once I said yes then I believe
44:22the judge asked myself and the attorney
44:26to
44:27stand um at that point the I don't know
44:31if who was the judge of the jury for
44:33Foreman uh issued their verdict ask the
44:37defendant Martin tankleff as to count
44:39two murder second de great
44:45y
44:49guilty there's nothing that can describe
44:51it I cannot possibly describe to you or
44:55anyone else
44:58how based on the the prosecution's
45:01case the reaction at that point is just
45:04it saying the the it's like you you're
45:07hid in the stomach and the air is taken
45:09out of you doesn't even do with Justice
45:11it has been said that one of the main
45:13reasons that motty was convicted was
45:16that he displayed no emotion while on
45:18the
45:19stand well if you had it to do all over
45:21again and you may someday have it to do
45:23all over again would you take the stand
45:25again yes why tell tell my side tell the
45:29truth but wouldn't you be concerned that
45:30a jury might look at you again and say
45:33GE that guy is so unemotional that he's
45:36probably guilty would that concern you
45:38it
45:39would but you know if if you don't take
45:42the stand okay who's going to really
45:45know the
45:47truth nobody that's why I'm here today
45:51that's why I took the stand okay how
45:54often do you see people take the stand
45:55defendants innocent def take the stand
45:58they've got nothing to hide I've got
46:00nothing to hide it's easy for me to say
46:04that I wish he had not testified I'm not
46:06convinced it would have changed the
46:08verdict I'm not convinced that if he had
46:10not testified that this jury whatever
46:13was going on inside that jury room that
46:15they would not have ultimately decided
46:17to convict him based on something else
46:21but it made it easier for them to say
46:22well we saw him on the stand and now as
46:25a lawyer what happens is okay we have
46:28the prosecution story and we have the
46:31defendant story which one do we believe
46:34and they said we believe we don't
46:35believe the defendant was we didn't like
46:36the way he he looked we didn't like the
46:38way he did not emote on the stand
46:41therefore we're going to buy the
46:42prosecution story if he had not
46:44testified then our argument that the
46:47prosecution the government failed to
46:49prove its case would still have been
46:51there and I just think that by
46:53testifying it made the the jury gave
46:55them an easy way out saying we didn't
46:58like the way he looked or appeared on
47:00the
47:01stand Marty was remanded to the county
47:04jail to await sentence while Sher who
47:06now believed he was guilty contested her
47:09father's will my father's will provided
47:12a large amount of money to H University
47:15uh set up in a college endowment
47:18fund um and
47:24probably 80% of the rest of it was left
47:27to me and 10% to Sherie Roa and I said
47:30to Marty look you know that Daddy you
47:34know this was not this is not right you
47:36and I need to talk I said because at the
47:38very least you know who's going to make
47:40ad on this the lawyers we don't want
47:43that and he looked at me sitting on my
47:45couch with a face as straight as old get
47:48out and said to
47:50me sorry it's all
47:55mine how did you feel feel about that I
47:58wanted to choke
48:02him I wanted to choke him you felt it
48:05was
48:06unfair I felt
48:12that he wasn't a part of this family he
48:15was brought into this
48:16family don't throw your weight around
48:18with
48:20me because with everything I have I will
48:23fight you you know money has no bearing
48:26on my life
48:27uh obtaining my freedom and finding out
48:29the truth is what's important as you sit
48:31here today what do you think of sh
48:34Roa not
48:36much there's not much to thank because
48:39she contested the estate because she
48:41contested the estate because she threw a
48:44party after she got her share of the
48:46money to celebrate you know obtaining
48:49money from the death of my father and
48:52having a party is
48:55disgusting now the country Y in this
48:57case didn't end with the guilty verdict
49:00or even the sentence you know it's been
49:02said Sher that you went into business uh
49:05with Jim m creedy is that a fact
49:08absolutely not I did not my ex-husband
49:12went into business with Jim mccre I even
49:15expressed to him my my concern and uh my
49:20trepidation about his doing that he
49:23wanted to do it anyway and so he did was
49:25any of your money used used to to
49:27construct the
49:28restaurant yeah actually it was my money
49:31um but that was my husband at the time
49:34and um
49:39I uh you know I did what I felt that I
49:42had to do to try and
49:44Salvage my disintegrating marriage I
49:48guess and a bartend a friend of
49:51mine um he I had asked him to come into
49:55the business with me
49:57because I really didn't know much about
49:59the business well it turned out that he
50:02was friends with Ronnie
50:04Roa and one night in a conversation
50:07between the three of us it was Ronnie
50:10kind of asked if he could get in and
50:12involved in it and we thought it would
50:14be a good idea because we thought he was
50:16a good businessman and uh and that's how
50:19the whole thing developed but sh had
50:21nothing to do with it but but Sher told
50:22us that her money was used by Ronnie
50:26very very very possible uh you know very
50:29possible but CH had nothing to do with
50:31the business so she you didn't consider
50:32yourself to be partners with SH no not
50:34at
50:37all after meeting with Detective mccre
50:40in North Carolina and in an effort to
50:43tie up the loose ends in this case we
50:45traveled to the State of Florida to meet
50:47with myON Fox I wanted to hear his
50:50version of what happened in front of 33
50:52Seaside drive on that fateful morning in
50:551988
50:59I've just come from a meeting with Uncle
51:01Mike and I can only say that I've left
51:03that meeting very frustrated Uncle Mike
51:06or myin Fox is the one person who could
51:09have told us what really happened on the
51:12morning of September 7th 1988 when he
51:15talked to detective mccre he knew about
51:17the relationships between Jerry and
51:21Seymour and he had so much information
51:24to give us in our Quest For Truth in
51:26this case
51:27but yet sadly he absolutely refused to
51:30go on camera one can only wonder
51:37why do you feel confident that you're
51:39going to get him out I don't know every
51:43time I think that uh we get
51:46closer um something gets in the way this
51:50gives me hope being able to to speak
51:52about it and and uh relay to people but
51:56this does happened to people people
51:58don't understand how can you get in this
51:59position and have your your nephew in
52:02prison for 50 years to life they just
52:03don't understand it's
52:05surreal so I just have a lot of Hope
52:08because we have a lot of support and
52:10we'll we'll continue to do it as long as
52:12we have to so I know that in our system
52:16it is so
52:18imperfect you can never assume that
52:22Justice will be
52:23done during the trial and the history of
52:27this case is you can't even assume
52:28Justice will be done on three or four
52:31appellate levels on the appeals but I
52:35still think that Justice will be done I
52:39don't know when or where but ultimately
52:41the truth will come out about this
52:43case if they
52:48had proved to
52:50me that Marty had done
52:54this as I said to my
53:00children I said
53:02we we'll just have to we still stick
53:06with him uh I said if in any
53:11way we they can prove
53:16it I said we'll just have to do the best
53:18we can and have they proven that to you
53:21no I've never arrested an innocent man
53:24in my life and never will ever
53:28the kid tripped himself up granted he's
53:2917 years
53:31old but we operated within the law I
53:35didn't do anything with that kid that I
53:36wasn't entitled to do I advised him of
53:38his rights kid was treated
53:42perfectly he's just mad at himself now
53:45do you ever have any second thoughts or
53:46any doubts about his guilt in this case
53:49no many many times people say to me do
53:51you think he really did it and I say to
53:53him no I absolutely know he did it
53:57I don't have to think that he did it I
53:58know he did it how anyone could be
54:00convicted on on a basis of that story I
54:03have kids and they probably kids in the
54:04third grade that can make up a better
54:06murder story than that one but he was
54:08convicted on that that's the
54:11confession and it's U to me that's the
54:15prime reason he shouldn't at least one
54:17of the Prime reasons he shouldn't be
54:19sitting in jail right now because it's
54:21just absurd one can only imagine what it
54:25must be like to be 18 years old you've
54:28lost both of your parents they've been
54:31brutally murdered you're innocent and
54:33yet you're charged with the murders and
54:36after 8 days of deliberations the jury
54:39has found you guilty of these crimes
54:42you're about to spend the rest of your
54:44life in prison I'm a victim of
54:46circumstances I'm a
54:48victim of this system of this
54:51country um of the way people Reser to
54:54brutality to solve financial problem
54:56problems but I'm innocent you know and
55:00there's somebody out there or some
55:01people who know the truth you know for
55:04my sake for my parents sake for my
55:06family's sake that's all I want I want
55:09the truth to be
55:11told in this troubling case we have
55:14traveled thousands of miles and heard
55:16from many witnesses still the truth
55:19remains elusive there is truly a
55:21question of guilt despite their wealth
55:24Arlene and Seymour tank
55:26have been laid to rest in very modest
55:29Graves sadly the two people who could
55:32answer the question as to what happened
55:35that morning have been silenced forever
55:38[Music]
56:25a for

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