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Marketing GENIUS: The Strategy Behind Content That Reaches Millions — Transcript

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0:00You just keep being [music] consistent,
0:02you will just plateau. The actual
0:03formula for growth is consistency x
0:05experimentation.
0:07We went from 8,000 on YouTube to 13
0:10million.
0:11This is the blueprint going forward for
0:13brands.
0:13>> I have like 40 questions.
0:15>> Meet Grace Andrews, the marketing genius
0:17behind the biggest brands in the
0:19business. And today, she's revealing her
0:21exact playbook.
0:23>> We can go viral. There is a science and
0:25a maths to it. But I'm in the game of
0:26content for business outcomes. [music]
0:28If you want to get someone to actually
0:29pay attention to you, you have to
0:32>> And the tactics they use to grow one of
0:34the biggest shows in the world.
0:35>> Diary of a CEO.
0:36>> Diary of a CEO.
0:38>> Guys, we're 90 away.
0:40>> We're 990 away.
0:42>> None of us had ever worked in podcasting
0:43before. All on the phone trying to
0:45[music] find guests because we had no
0:46credibility. Our whole mindset was it's
0:48a numbers game. If we message 1,000
0:49people, we're going to get 10 people who
0:51say yes. So, we would message 1,000
0:53people every single week. If we keep
0:55[music] doing this and we do not quit,
0:58we will win.
1:05I'd be introduced as the brand director
1:07of Diary of a CEO, Grace Andrews. Who am
1:08I without that?
1:10>> You ultimately decide to leave the Diary
1:12of a CEO. What was going through your
1:14mind during this time?
1:17>> [music]
1:18>> Can I do this again?
1:22>> We are on the hunt to make one of your
1:24dreams a reality. Now, we have a series
1:26called What's Your Dream, where we help
1:27make one person's dream come true. And
1:31we don't do these very often, but we
1:32wrapped one of our projects recently,
1:34and we are looking for our next big
1:37dream. Let us know in the comments what
1:38your dream is and what part of your
1:40dream our team can support you in. Our
1:42team's going to be looking through all
1:43the comments, and you just might hear
1:45from us.
1:46All right, guys. Let's get back to the
1:48video.
1:50>> [music]
1:56>> Grace, what patterns do you see in
1:58brands that know how to hold attention?
2:01>> A lot of companies at the moment, I
2:02think they're understanding that the
2:04root is entertaining. And if you want to
2:07hold people's attention, like episodic
2:08entertaining content is the route to go
2:10down. There are of course different
2:11approaches depending on your industry,
2:13but I truly believe that the the
2:15blueprint that spans all of those brands
2:19is the idea that you are a media
2:20business that happens to sell product.
2:22And they all are adopting this same
2:24mindset and all seeing results. And that
2:26has been proven to be true with all of
2:28the content we've seen in the last 6
2:30months. My favorite example has been
2:31Roomies Roomies Roomies. So, this rental
2:35software platform, like on the cuff of
2:38it, super boring, right? So, what do
2:39they do? They flip it on its head and
2:41basically become an entertainment media
2:42company. They create a new Instagram
2:44account called Roomies Roomies Roomies.
2:46It's not logo driven. It's not even the
2:48name of the brand. And they create this
2:51entertainment
2:53comedic relatable series about people
2:56moving in together in New York City and
2:58like finding apartments. And they play
3:00into all the problems and the struggles
3:01of their customer. It's hilarious. It's
3:04entertaining. And it's addictive. Like
3:06you want to come back to it, right? Like
3:08I'm not even in that sort of category of
3:09the people they're going after, but it
3:11was really interesting to see the
3:13direction they took because a marketing
3:15team could sit down in that corporate
3:16environment and go, "Okay,
3:18we can maybe we can hold a conference or
3:21we can send out some flyers or we can
3:23put some posters up around the city."
3:25And some person who understands content
3:28has gone, "Or,
3:29we can drive millions and millions and
3:31millions of views
3:33in our target demographic city
3:36by just feeding off the common problems
3:38that people are facing and turning into
3:40entertainment."
3:41And what happens is people spend
3:43minutes, minutes, minutes, maybe up to
3:45hours now cuz their content's quite
3:47long, consuming their content. So, when
3:49someone thinks about a rental platform
3:51or they need to move apartments, or
3:53their friend needs to move apartments,
3:55they go, "Oh my god."
3:56They've understood that people are
3:58allergic to sales messaging, they are
4:00allergic to being told to do anything.
4:03People are looking for relief when they
4:04come on to social media, they're not
4:06looking to be sold to. So, they're not
4:08putting their logo in your face, they're
4:10not telling you to go and buy the
4:11product, they're not explaining the
4:14features of how it works. They are
4:15purely going after entertainment, and to
4:18me is that
4:20is the blueprint for for social media
4:22going forward for brands. One of my
4:23favorite examples recently was British
4:25Vogue had Millie Bobby Brown on the
4:27cover. And
4:28>> Was it the intern?
4:29>> Yeah. Yes. So, exactly. So, the fact
4:31that you said that, they had her on the
4:32cover. What went viral? The entertaining
4:35episodic content they created alongside
4:37that. So, instead of just having the
4:38cover, which is sort of historic Vogue,
4:41what they've done forever, tradition,
4:44they created social media first
4:46entertaining content that drove so much
4:48conversation, excitement, shareability
4:50around it, way more than like the cover
4:52still image, because if you can get
4:54someone to watch the intern, next time
4:57they walk in a supermarket and they're
4:58choosing a magazine, they're more likely
5:00to choose Vogue because Vogue feels
5:02relevant to them. And that's what I wish
5:05more brands understood about social.
5:06It's not about pushing your product,
5:08it's about thinking about yourself as a
5:10media company.
5:11How can you drive attention through
5:13media, capturing them in the moment
5:14where they are, jumping on the relevant
5:16trends, showing interest in the things
5:17they're interested in, until you just
5:19slowly move closer and closer and closer
5:21until the purchase feels inevitable.
5:23>> So, let's say someone is building a
5:23startup and they don't have an audience
5:25and they don't have the budget.
5:26Entertainment sometimes feels like this
5:28long-term play. Should they be investing
5:31in this long-term play as a media
5:32company, or is this something that they
5:34do once they're more established?
5:36>> I don't think it matters if you are day
5:37one or day a thousand and one. It
5:40probably actually matters more if you're
5:41day a thousand and one to sustain
5:43relevancy, but I don't think it matters
5:45either way, as long as you're thinking
5:47about yourself as a media company that
5:48happens to sell a product, you're always
5:51going to approach content with the right
5:52mindset. There's a brand in the UK
5:54called Salt, S U L T, which is an
5:56electrolyte brand, and they bootstrapped
5:58this business before they even had a
5:59product or told anyone what the product
6:00was. They had 20,000 followers because
6:03they've been driving entertaining
6:04content, and now they've got this
6:06reputation for storytelling and
6:08attention-grabbing content, and people
6:10spend time with them, and their
6:11engagement rate is crazy. So, what
6:13happens is like the product goes on
6:14sale, it sells out overnight. It's never
6:16like, "Here's the product. Like, go and
6:19buy the product. Here's our logo." What
6:21you should be focusing on instead of
6:22like telling them where to go is try and
6:24meet them as many times as you possibly
6:25can. So, that's multiple assets across
6:27multiple platforms and getting them that
6:29way. If people are interested enough and
6:31they attract the right people, they will
6:33naturally click through because they
6:35you've captured their attention. I
6:36totally understand that because I feel
6:38like I can't tell you how many clients
6:40will hold on to just like I mean, the
6:43lo- but the logo, but the logo, but the
6:44logo, right? And you've talked a lot
6:46about brands being creators and creators
6:49operating like brands. Can you elaborate
6:50a little bit more? Why do I begin?
6:54I think the money that is being poured
6:56down the drain because brands aren't
6:58able to keep up with the like rate and
7:00change of what's happening in the
7:01creator economy blows my mind. So,
7:04brands need to look towards creators to
7:06understand attention, social, content,
7:08storytelling, retention, loyalty, all of
7:10that wonderful stuff.
7:12And then you've got these creators who
7:13know all of that stuff, but don't know
7:16how to tie it into a business. They
7:17don't know how to monetize it. They
7:19don't know how to commercialize it. So,
7:21creators know attentions, brands know
7:22business, and if they could just sort of
7:25teach each other those
7:27competing but also complimentary skills,
7:29then we'd have some incredible,
7:31incredible
7:33creator-driven brands. So, to that
7:35point, if there's an entrepreneur that's
7:36watching and they wanted to dip their
7:38toes into operating like a creator,
7:40right? They want to build in public.
7:43What does it actually look like on a
7:45day-to-day? Is Is it only through
7:46building in public? Are there other ways
7:48that they could
7:50be a creator?
7:52>> I think it's a little controversial when
7:53I say this because I've advocated for
7:55personal branding for a long time. It's
7:57what I think is like the magnet for
7:59opportunities. It's diversify my revenue
8:01streams. It's allowed me to scale my
8:02career far far quicker than anything
8:04else.
8:05But does every founder need to build a
8:07personal brand?
8:09No.
8:10It's not critical, but it does
8:12fast-track trust. People build trust
8:14with people. They don't build trust with
8:16logos. So, if you've got a goal within
8:19your sphere that looks like um
8:21increasing your credibility or raising
8:24investment that requires you to get in
8:26front of certain people, for sure
8:28building a personal brand is going to be
8:29amazing for that. But if you have a
8:31founder who is resisting it and it feels
8:34so uncomfortable and actually they just
8:35love being behind the scenes, is there
8:37another individual in your organization
8:39who can take on that role to build the
8:40connection? I mean, you think about some
8:43of the biggest brands in recent years
8:44who have done it from
8:46DoorDash to in the UK we have Currys,
8:48which is like
8:49your version of Best Buy. Like it's like
8:50a tech shop. They've been able to
8:53genuinely scale the revenue of their
8:55business by focusing on certain
8:57employees in their storytelling. The CEO
8:59of Currys came out and said it's
9:01directly attributing the revenue
9:03increase in Q4 last year to their
9:05presence of employees on TikTok. And I
9:07don't know who the CEO of Currys is.
9:08She? He? I don't know. have a personal
9:10brand. I'm not aware of them. I'm aware
9:12of their employees and I'm aware of
9:13their brand. And they've been able to
9:14build incredible retention, connection,
9:16and trust through their employees. So,
9:18there are other routes to take. But
9:19also, just creating a really really
9:22great brand story that you can tell time
9:24and time again, it doesn't have to have
9:26people. You just have to understand how
9:28like connection and trust works.
9:30>> It's funny cuz you say the word trust a
9:31lot, but when we're dealing with brands,
9:33attention feels like the thing we're
9:35chasing sometimes. And so, should their
9:37first thing be trust or is it attention?
9:40>> I'll start from the top. So, I talk
9:43about the marketing funnel being dead.
9:45And the reason I talk about that, and
9:47it's backed up in a lot of research and
9:48data and scientific papers, is because
9:52it's not linear anymore. So, what we
9:54used to have as awareness down into
9:57consideration down into conversion, it
9:58was a very sort of simple linear bucket
10:00that went straight through.
10:02Now, in 2026, we have this concept of
10:05discoverability is everywhere. So, let's
10:07talk about this podcast, for example.
10:08Someone may discover this podcast from a
10:10clip on Instagram. Someone may discover
10:13it when they're scrolling their YouTube
10:14algorithm looking for business advice.
10:16Someone may discover it when someone in
10:18their WhatsApp group chat sends it to
10:19them. So, it's now not awareness,
10:22consideration, conversion. It's
10:23touchpoints of discoverability.
10:26And it's how many touchpoints they need
10:27to experience with your brand before
10:28they convert. So, it's messier. Then we
10:30think I have to think about the content
10:31funnel, right? So, the content funnel
10:33still does exist. And the content funnel
10:35looks like attention, which leads to
10:38discoverability and understanding of the
10:39brand. Then you've got connection, which
10:42is where someone like resonates, they
10:43see your content multiple times, they
10:45might convert into a follow. And then
10:47you've got sort of conversion into the
10:48brand at the at the bottom, which is
10:49ultimately trust. So, you've got like
10:51attention, connection, trust. That's
10:52sort of what the funnel looks like. So,
10:54at the top, you're not going after
10:56trust, right? Because trust takes time
10:58to build up. So, the first time I see
11:00your content, I'm probably going to
11:02scroll past it in like 2 seconds unless
11:04it like hits with me. If it does, I'm
11:06probably not going to click on your page
11:07though cuz it's the first time I've seen
11:08it.
11:09If I get served it again and again, and
11:11then my friend tells me about it, and
11:13then I see it on another platform, and
11:14then I see the founder talking about the
11:16behind the scenes of the brand or an
11:17employee, I'm like, okay, there's like
11:19lots of moments here of capturing my
11:21attention. I'm going to go and have a
11:22look at the page. I'm going to go and
11:24maybe convert to the long form. And then
11:26over time, the trust is built.
11:29Because trust is what happens when
11:30multiple touchpoints of your brand have
11:32reached your desired audience and you've
11:34offered them enough value to convert.
11:37So, as once your question,
11:39should brands be thinking about
11:40attention or trust because they feel
11:42conflicting, the top of the funnel that
11:44you need to think about is capturing
11:45attention always and after capturing
11:47attention multiple times
11:49through various different touch points
11:51across multi-platforms through your
11:53influence maps of discovery, you're
11:55going to build that trust.
11:56>> And I think that's why it was like so
11:57frustrating cuz, you know,
11:59I think the answer is always like,
12:00"What's the key to social media? The key
12:02to It's always consistency, right?" Did
12:05you ever see those platform sneakers?
12:06They're like these ugly I think they're
12:08still ugly.
12:09>> But they're like these
12:09>> ugly Someone's
12:11Yeah, they're like these like wedge
12:12sneakers. They were really in in like
12:142012 or something like that and I just
12:16remember like seeing them and being
12:17like, "They're so ugly." And I saw them
12:18enough times all over. My friends had
12:21them and then at a certain point, I
12:23bought them, right? And I'm wearing
12:25these like wedge sneakers with like the
12:26Velcro straps. And it's because I was
12:29exposed to them enough times to the
12:31point where then it was like I started
12:33to like it. I think that that's the
12:34hardest part. We chase the views, we
12:36chase the virality, right? Like whether
12:37it's viral or not, I feel like sure that
12:40helps for exposure because it reaches
12:42more people, but the point is to keep
12:43doing that so that they see you several
12:46times, right?
12:46>> Yeah, I mean, virality is just a sugar
12:48rush. Like virality is a sugar hit. You
12:50got like the buzz, the excitement and
12:52then what happens after a sugar rush is
12:53the come down. You're like, "Where is
12:54everyone? What's happened?" Because you
12:56haven't actually bought like your
12:57audience in. You've just gone in front
12:58of a lot of people, which is why I say
13:00to a brands like, "We can go viral. Like
13:03I could give you a list of 10 things we
13:06could do tomorrow. We create these
13:07videos right now, they're going to go
13:08viral because there is like a science
13:11and a maths to it. Like if you
13:12understand how to capture people's
13:13attention at like the upwards part of a
13:15trend, you will you will go viral."
13:19I can't think of many situations where
13:21that should be the goal. The goal is to
13:23like always be getting in front of the
13:25desired target people and building a
13:27relationship with them over time. It's
13:29growing for that reason, not just
13:31growing for the sake of views.
13:33>> If it's purely for pleasure, go for it.
13:35Like, have fun and enjoy.
13:37>> I'm in the game of like content for
13:39business outcomes. And if you don't know
13:41why you're creating that piece of
13:42content and what what business goal it
13:45serves, then I'd kind of just sit there
13:48and go, "And like, well, why have we why
13:49have we even got to the stage of it
13:50going live?"
13:51>> Right.
13:51>> You know, like that's the question we've
13:52got to be asking before it ever goes
13:54live. It's like, for what? And how are
13:56we measuring success here? And it's
13:58really important that you get so clear
14:00on what you're measuring when you go in,
14:01so that when it goes out and say it goes
14:03viral, you don't get distracted by that.
14:05You don't get distracted by the views,
14:07because if you're not measuring views,
14:08it actually doesn't matter. I'll use
14:09myself as the example. Like, I posted
14:11I've been posting a series called Pass
14:12the Mic. First two um performed really
14:15well against the bench benchmarks of
14:16what like what I was measuring success
14:18as. That was like mainly driving
14:20conversation. So, like, the comments
14:22were really high, but the comments were
14:24really interesting. They weren't like AI
14:25bots, or they weren't just emojis. They
14:27were people like had clearly watched the
14:28video, maybe watched it a couple of
14:29times, and they were really engaging in
14:31conversation in the comments. So, that
14:33was what I was trying to achieve with
14:34that series and the shares. So, I posted
14:36a third episode the other day, and it
14:38did okay in terms of views. Like, it was
14:40fine, but I wasn't paying any attention
14:42to that. I was paying attention to the
14:43conversation. It was really low, and the
14:45quality wasn't there. And I was
14:47therefore like, okay, I need to pick
14:48this apart. Like, what didn't work? Why
14:50was I not driving conversation? I came
14:52to the conclusion that actually it was a
14:54too simple of a conversation for the
14:56type of audience I've now built. It was
14:57a very introductory kind of conversation
15:00about what platform do I pick? And then
15:02I looked in the analytics, and I got a
15:04pop-up from Instagram, and it said,
15:06"This reel is overperforming in terms of
15:08follows."
15:09And so, to Instagram,
15:12it's measured that reel is a success.
15:14And someone might see that and be like,
15:15"Okay, it's performed really well."
15:17Against the metrics that I laid out, it
15:18still didn't perform. You've got to know
15:20what you're measuring, and there are a
15:21million different things to measure,
15:22right? You can measure engagement,
15:23right? You can measure conversion from
15:25like to share. You can measure all of
15:27these DMs. Like, am I getting inquiries
15:29off the back of it? Like, actual
15:31tangible things. And if you don't know
15:32what you're measuring, it's really easy
15:34to be what I call like a paper bag in
15:35the wind and just go with the flow. And
15:37that's a dangerous place to be.
15:39>> I have like 40 questions. There's so
15:41much to unpack there. Cuz if those
15:42people, in theory, let's say, you know,
15:43were the ideal customer that you're
15:46looking for, why wouldn't that be the
15:47right metric?
15:48>> Because if you were going to run an
15:49experiment at school, um
15:52We're in the We're in the school room.
15:54We're in the science room. I I come back
15:56to it. It's really simple. Like, when we
15:57run an experiment in science, if you
15:59don't know what you're going in to
16:00measure, then you don't know why you're
16:01creating the content. So, for me,
16:03comments and shares were like the number
16:04one metric I was measuring. Shares
16:06suggest that people are sending it to
16:07other people's DMs and they're having a
16:08conversation about it, which is a really
16:10great place to be. And comments was
16:12like, they wanted to chat with me about
16:13it. So, I was driving conversation.
16:15Like, Instagram telling me it had been a
16:16success based on followers
16:19is like, yeah, okay, cool. As a
16:21byproduct, it's brought in people. But
16:23that wasn't what I set out to achieve.
16:24Like, this reel has not been successful.
16:27Because what happens is, if I look at
16:29that notification and go, "Oh my god,
16:30it's been a success, followers." I sit
16:32back and I go, "Great. Success. Done."
16:35In actual fact, it hasn't performed
16:37against my benchmarks or my metrics. So,
16:39I get to analyze and ask why. Because
16:41otherwise, that just gets pushed to the
16:43side and we move on to the next, and I
16:44might repeat that again next time. I
16:46remember when I When we were at Darwin
16:47CEO and we were bringing in freelance
16:49social media managers, and I I'd always
16:50ask them to do like a report each week
16:51on what had worked well and what hadn't.
16:53But what they'd do is they'd screenshot
16:55the reel and screenshot the insights and
16:58just highlight and be like, "This one
16:59got more likes than the last one." And
17:01then the next one, "This one got more
17:02comments this week." Again, "This one
17:04had more shares."
17:05There was no direction with any of it.
17:07It was just trying to highlight
17:08something that had worked well with it.
17:11And what it prevents is growth, because
17:12you don't unpick any of the failures or
17:14any of the learnings to then improve.
17:16So, what happens the next week? You go,
17:18"This one did likes. This one did
17:20follows." And it's like everything was
17:21good this week. Okay, but what were we
17:23measuring? Did it work against the
17:25criteria for success? We've all got to
17:27know what we're measuring this week, and
17:30then we can go back and go, "Did we
17:31achieve that?" If not, which is way more
17:33interesting to me, if not, why? Because
17:36you said earlier about
17:38like the secret to the social media
17:39success is consistency. Like, of course
17:41it is. Like, don't give up when everyone
17:43else would give up, basically. But the
17:44actual formula for growth is consistency
17:46x experimentation. Because if you just
17:49keep being consistent, you will just
17:51plateau.
17:52Because you're not learning, you're not
17:53growing, you're not developing. You've
17:55got to find the opportunities for
17:56leveling up. So, when the platform
17:58introduces a new feature, if you don't
17:59lean into it, you're going to get left
18:01behind. If a trend's happening that's
18:03super relevant to your industry, but
18:05you've got your content all lined up and
18:06batched for this month, then you're
18:08never going to experiment and find the
18:09opportunity to grow. It's like you've
18:11got to be looking at what's working,
18:12what's not, more importantly, and be
18:15adapting your content going forward.
18:17Because if you just keep posting, then
18:18eventually you're just going to
18:19flatline. You only get that hockey stick
18:22like compounding growth graph if you are
18:24willing to keep trying new things
18:26obsessively every single week on the
18:28level of consistency that you're like
18:30that's achievable for you. But how do
18:31you know which metric you should care
18:33about? Like, we're facing this out. This
18:35is why I'm asking because we're so new,
18:37should right now be the season of trying
18:39to grow that following and then
18:40fostering those conversations, or should
18:43I be aiming for the conversations and
18:44knowing that that will lead to the
18:45following down the line? I would say you
18:47probably want to have goals, or what I
18:48call destinations, in mind in any one
18:50season. So, I do quarterly. So, per
18:53quarter, I will go, "Okay, what are the
18:54three things I'm trying to achieve?" So,
18:56right now, for example, in my life, I
18:57want to increase my rate of inbound
19:00speaking inquiries, and I want more
19:01global inquiries. The second one is sign
19:05a book deal. And the third one, for
19:08example, is I want to grow my YouTube
19:11from 10k to 100k. So, what I do then is
19:15I go, "Okay, if I want to achieve that
19:17one, I need to know what content types
19:19are going to achieve that. I need to
19:20know what content types are going to
19:21achieve that." So, for example, if I
19:22want to increase my speaking inquiries,
19:24I know that I need more formats of my
19:26speaking. I need to build more
19:27credibility. I need to get in front of
19:29the right people, i.e. speakers bookers.
19:30So, I know that when I post a speaking
19:33clip, the way I'm measuring success for
19:35this is like how many emails am I
19:36getting? And then I always ask, I say,
19:38"Where did you discover me?" or like,
19:39"Where did you find out about me?" The
19:40book deal, for example, I know that the
19:42formats that are going to achieve like a
19:43book deal is probably like awareness
19:45reach audience size. Publishers really
19:47interested in like the rate that you're
19:49growing. So, yeah, it's great if you've
19:51got a million followers, but if you've
19:52been stuck at a million for 5 years,
19:54it's like not really interesting for
19:55them. They want to know that they're
19:57finding writers of books who are on the
19:59rise. So, I need to prove to them like
20:01consistent growth month after month. So,
20:03therefore, I am thinking about
20:04followers. So, I'm thinking about what
20:06content types can I post every single
20:08month that are going to generate growth
20:09and followers. So, follower is the
20:11metric for that. And then like retention
20:13of the followers. So, making sure I'm
20:14not having like a high drop off of
20:16followers. So, you can have multiple
20:20different formats happening at the same
20:21time as long as you know how you're
20:23measuring success for each of them
20:24against the goals you're trying to
20:25achieve.
20:26And maybe you are in a season of growth,
20:28but at some point you're going to have
20:29to go, "Okay, what about loyalty and
20:30retention?" And you probably need to be
20:32speaking those both truths at the same
20:34time. So, some of your content needs to
20:36be going off to growth, and some of it
20:37needs to be conversation driving with
20:39your current existing followers to drive
20:40conversation and keep people engaged in
20:42that space. So, your balance is going to
20:44be so individual to what you're trying
20:45to achieve. Maybe it's 20/80. Maybe it's
20:47platform dependent. Maybe one platform
20:49is a growth platform. Maybe one platform
20:50is a retention platform. Like, that's
20:52where strategy comes into it because
20:54like about mapping out your goals and
20:56where they sit. It is a great time to
20:58move into talking about how to apply
21:01that for someone who wants to improve
21:03their social media strategy in 2026. I
21:05want to talk about what what they should
21:06do. And we're we have a little show and
21:08tell that we can go over together.
21:11>> Before we get back to the video, this is
21:12generally in the spirit of Diary of a
21:14CEO where Steven Bartlett would go,
21:1660-something percent of you are not
21:17subscribed. Well,
21:19um on our channel it's currently looking
21:21like 90-something percent. So,
21:23if you could help us get that number
21:24down and subscribe, that would be so
21:26helpful. It will help us so much to
21:28continue making these episodes for you,
21:29bring on great guests, and well, yeah,
21:32as we always say, keeping the lights on.
21:34All right, guys, let's go back to the
21:35video.
21:37>> Okay, so I've never shared this before.
21:38This is what I do when I do my
21:40one-to-one personal content research.
21:42And obviously storytelling is such a
21:43huge part of what I do, and I think
21:45people get on board with understanding
21:47how content meets business goals when
21:49it's taught through a story. That's what
21:51I found with my clients. So, if I go in
21:52and I'm like, "Your content needs to
21:54like meet your destinations and meet
21:55your business goals." They're like,
21:56"Okay, like I don't really know where to
21:57start." So, I've made this sort of
21:59analogy which is about a city, and the
22:03city is you and your brand and your
22:05business. So, like to take New York
22:07City, right? New York City, like people
22:09go there for a reason. They come and
22:11visit the city because it has amazing
22:15food and drink, or it has an amazing
22:17energy. Like people arrive for a reason.
22:19So, I start with Grand Central like
22:22being the center of your city map, and
22:24that has got to be your why. Your why is
22:27your anchor. It's where everything
22:28starts. It's where everything comes back
22:29to. It's how the whole flow works. Let's
22:31just do it for myself. My why is like be
22:34the intersection for creators and
22:35brands. So, that's why people visit my
22:37city. That's why they show up. They want
22:39to learn about that topic. And I go,
22:41"Okay, where do I want people to go to
22:43when they're in my city?" So, in New
22:44York City, you would go to Times Square,
22:46you would go to Statue of Liberty. So,
22:48the destinations I want to get people to
22:50with my content is like increase to my
22:53inbound speaking inquiries. So, I want
22:55to like 10x my speaking. So, that's
22:57destination one. Destination two is book
23:00deal, and destination three, I want to
23:04grow my YouTube subscriber base to 100k.
23:07So, if we want to get to the
23:08destinations, we need lines that take us
23:10from Central Station to the destination.
23:12So, your lines are what I call your
23:13signals. What are the signals that's
23:15going to carry someone from your why
23:17through to the destination? So, my
23:19signals for achieving this goal is that
23:21I need to increase to my credibility, I
23:23need to demonstrate an ability to speak,
23:25and I need to talk about unique topics.
23:27So, when people think about booking a
23:29guest for an event, they think about me.
23:31For a book deal, I need to own certain
23:33topics. I need to really, really have
23:35authority on certain topics. They also
23:38need to see engagement, and they need to
23:39see incremental growth. Because if they
23:41don't see engagement on my content, they
23:42don't see incremental growth, they don't
23:44think they're going to sell any books.
23:45And for 100k, I need to build awareness
23:48for my target audience. Currently, we've
23:50got all these people in Grand Central in
23:51your why, they've arrived because
23:53they're interested in your brand, but we
23:55need to know the right kind of people
23:56who we need to get onto each line. So,
23:59now we need to think about the
24:00passengers for each line. So, the
24:01passengers that we need to get on the
24:03speaking line are
24:04people who book speakers for events,
24:06corporates, like the type of people who
24:08I need to attract to we're going to book
24:10me here. For my book deal, it's literary
24:12agents, it's like talent agencies. 100k
24:15is my target audience, which is people
24:18who want to build, ambitious people,
24:19people who are driven, and people who
24:21care about content. Immediately, we've
24:23identified like the audience that we're
24:25going to take along each line, and then
24:27we need to think about the stops along
24:29the line that are going to
24:31keep people going. And the stops are
24:33your content formats. And we are trying
24:35to move people from the central area
24:38that they've arrived in and keep them on
24:39the line of interest that take you to
24:41the destination.
24:43And these are your content pieces that
24:45are going to do that. So, it's like,
24:46"Okay, what are the formats that are
24:47going to take a passenger along the line
24:49of credibility to reach the speaking
24:51goal?" A lot of people think about the
24:53content they want to create, and then
24:54they think, "Okay, how am I going to
24:55measure it?" They don't think about how
24:57it feeds into the wider network of your
24:59brand and how it's going to build
25:01towards a goal over time. So, it's all
25:03about goal, signal, content. It works
25:06backwards from that. So, when I think
25:08about that and I know that the signal is
25:09going to be credibility, I think, okay,
25:11the formats are going to be cut-downs
25:13with me on podcasts. That's going to
25:14really help increase my credibility for
25:15speaking. It's going to be
25:18short-form videos where I can talk on a
25:20specific topic with really good amount
25:22of credibility. And it could even be
25:24written. Like, it could be writing on
25:26LinkedIn. But, am I holding attention?
25:28Like, am I able to hold attention on a
25:29certain topic repeatedly? So, those
25:31become my content formats. And then what
25:34you need to do is you obviously need to
25:35create your timetable. Like, how is this
25:36train system going to run? The timetable
25:39becomes your content plan, right? So,
25:41the timetable says, okay, you're going
25:43to post two posts for the credibility
25:46line this week, two for the authority
25:47line, and two for the attention line.
25:49And then you repeat it for a few weeks
25:51and at the end of the month you go,
25:52okay, have we taken people along this
25:54line? I.e., have we increased speaking?
25:57Have we had any inquiries about a book
25:58deal? Have we grown our audience closer
26:00to 100k? If yes, great, we keep doing
26:02more of the same thing. If not, we need
26:04to look at our timetable and shift it
26:05up. I redo this quarterly. So, with my
26:08own brand, I have like a Q1 version of
26:10this, which I'm reviewing every single
26:13month and I'm understanding like how far
26:15passengers are along this line to
26:16achieving this goal. And what happens
26:18over time is you start with three
26:20and then your network expands, you build
26:22your business, you hire a team, you have
26:24more resources, you have more
26:25capabilities to build lines. Eventually,
26:27this becomes like an incredible network
26:29map, which is kind of what happened with
26:31Steven the driver CEO. Obviously, we had
26:33the podcast, he had his businesses, he
26:34had merch, he had shows, he had the
26:36book, and we were having to serve all of
26:38those goals all at once. So, it was a
26:40case of how do we serve all those
26:41different goals and all those different
26:42people with different formats and keep
26:45them all happy moving along ticking the
26:47lines happy without any breakdowns. And
26:49yeah, I'm a visual person, so it really
26:50helps me. I am, too. Normally, I'm so
26:52used
26:54Yeah, you were like, "Can you bring
26:56Can you bring Can you bring
26:56spreadsheets?" Can you I was like, "I
26:57can do a drawing."
26:59>> This is incredible to hear because I
27:00feel like this just actually makes
27:02things make a lot more sense for a lot
27:03of people who are watching at home. You
27:04mentioned two things that I think are
27:06really important. We've You know, we've
27:07spoken about audience and you've spoken
27:08about attention. How do you find the
27:10right audience?
27:11>> I think people just don't spend enough
27:13time at the start understanding that
27:15there are different audience types. I
27:17think people, especially entrepreneurs,
27:19they are so passionate about the product
27:22or thing they're creating that they want
27:23everyone to care about as much as they
27:25do. They'll go, "But who is it for?"
27:26Everyone. But who is using it? Well,
27:28like anyone can use it. And the reality
27:30is if you try and speak to everyone,
27:32you're not going to speak to anyone
27:33because social media is this like vast
27:36like massive place that millions and
27:38millions of people are spending every
27:39day and the algorithm is working so hard
27:41to try and serve those people the
27:43content that they think they're going to
27:44care about. I mean, for goodness sake on
27:46Instagram now, you can choose your
27:47algorithm by keywords. So, you can go
27:50into the explore page. And you, for
27:51example, like I'm building a house, I'm
27:53planning a wedding, and I am building a
27:56business.
27:57Obviously, would not recommend doing all
27:58three of those things at once to anyone,
28:00but here we are. So, I've literally gone
28:01into my algorithm and I've been like
28:03wedding, 2026 bride, renovation, and
28:07entrepreneurship. And so, I've told
28:10Instagram exactly what I want to see.
28:13So, Instagram is like, "Okay, we can get
28:15rid of 99% of content on this platform
28:17for this girl and we can just serve her
28:19the things within her niche."
28:21If you are not thinking and reverse
28:23engineering as if you are Instagram as a
28:25business person, then you are speaking
28:27to no one because all Instagram is
28:28trying to do as quickly as possible is
28:30figure out who is this piece of content
28:32for so we can serve it to them. It's not
28:34working against you. It's trying to work
28:36for you. But if you make their life hard
28:38and don't make it clear who that piece
28:40of content is for, whether it's through
28:42what you speak about during the reel or
28:44the piece of content or the keywords,
28:46the caption, the tags, the location.
28:48Like it's studying all of the data
28:49within that to try and serve it to an
28:51audience. If you are not so clear on who
28:53that is, you will get shown to no one.
28:56So, I work with someone and they'll say,
28:58"Yeah, I think we're trying to reach
29:00like
29:0120 to 40-year-olds
29:03in the world." Yeah. And I'm like,
29:07"Where are they spending their time? How
29:09What is their morning routine? What do
29:11they look like? Who are their friends?
29:12What group chats are they in?" Like I
29:14need to know that level of granular
29:15detail to be able to speak to them. Like
29:18be in the WhatsApp communities, be in
29:20the Facebook groups. I remember I once I
29:23was working with a brand and they was a
29:24brand for new moms. There were all these
29:26incredible Facebook groups with all
29:28these new moms cuz like, you know,
29:29they're like so lost in their sleepless
29:30nights and they just join these Facebook
29:31groups. And they told me about them.
29:33They were like, "There are these
29:33Facebook groups." And I was like, "Are
29:34you in them?" And they were like, "Oh,
29:35no, no, cuz we're not new moms."
29:37And I was like, "You will be getting all
29:39of your insight and data from that
29:41space. Like that is where you need to be
29:43hanging out." At least I create accounts
29:44and spend time in that space just to
29:46hear the problems. Like spend time, like
29:48sit with the people. We consume so much
29:50every single day. We are absolutely
29:52flooded from every single direction with
29:54noise, with content, with marketing,
29:58with advertising. If you want to cut
30:00through to get someone to actually pay
30:01attention to you, even convert to you
30:04through a follower or a purchase, you
30:07have to be speaking their language. You
30:08have to be solving their problems. And
30:10what will happen is your views, your
30:12engagement, everything will go from like
30:14zero to 100 because you will be getting
30:17in front of the right people. You've got
30:18to infiltrate their habits. You've got
30:19to insert yourself in their daily
30:21routines. Because when you nail that
30:23down, you will explode within that niche
30:25of of that category of that individual.
30:28>> How do you know for sure that it is the
30:30right audience? Is it
30:33the dollars?
30:34>> I think it it's a little bit of
30:35everything. It's like, okay, who has the
30:36purchase power here? Like who is
30:38spending the money? Who can make the
30:39decisions? And don't get me wrong. Like
30:41there will be moments where you pivot.
30:43So you might go in and you think, "Okay,
30:44I think I'm building for this category."
30:46And then you have to look and listen and
30:49and be on the ground with those people
30:50and go, "Okay, I thought it was this. I
30:51actually think it's like over here."
30:53That may change, and you have to be
30:55willing to listen to the data and accept
30:57when you get it wrong. Most founders are
30:58so romantic about their idea of what it
31:01should be that they lose sight of being
31:04able to pivot. I think some of the best
31:06founders and entrepreneurs I've ever met
31:07like
31:08being able to pivot and pivot fast and
31:12like not [ __ ] around and just be able to
31:14make a decision and move on. It's like,
31:16"Can I remove my ego from the situation
31:18and do what's best for my audience
31:19here?" And then like spend time in your
31:21analytics. Are the people you think
31:23you're speaking to actually the people
31:24you're speaking to? So if I think I want
31:26to speak to new moms and I look in the
31:27back end of my demographics and it's
31:30like 45-55 year old men,
31:33then something's going wrong. So that
31:35audience gap is something that you can
31:37close by just paying attention to the
31:39demographics and going, "Actually, do we
31:41need to switch our content or do we need
31:43to switch our audience here?" So if
31:44someone is ready to move forward and
31:46they're ready to execute and they want
31:48to really hone in on mastering, you
31:51know, social media and marketing in
31:53general so that they can garner
31:54attention for their brand, right? I want
31:56to go back to the attention.
31:57The way that I'm understanding this is
31:59that, for example, the first time I
32:00heard you on a podcast, immediately I
32:02trusted you from that video. However,
32:04you got my attention before I saw that
32:06video. You got my attention through
32:07Diary of a CEO.
32:08>> How many minutes of that video did you
32:10watch?
32:11>> Our plus podcast. So you spent an hour
32:13with me, right?
32:13>> Mhm.
32:14>> So when we think about what I call
32:16memorable minutes versus forgettable
32:18seconds,
32:19>> Okay.
32:19>> forgettable seconds are empty views.
32:21It's a reel that gets a million views
32:23and people can't recall a single thing
32:25that was said in it because it was like
32:27funny or whatever they watched for 3
32:28seconds. They scroll past, they go on
32:30with their day.
32:31Imagine how many 3-second, 10-second,
32:3320-second clips someone's going to watch
32:35before they spend an hour with you.
32:37>> Mhm.
32:38>> So, that might mean they have to come
32:40across your content for 6 months, a
32:41year, I don't know, before they build
32:43that trust. You can't just spend an hour
32:44with me. So, that is like what we call
32:46memorable minutes. And we're just
32:48thinking, imagine like a a jar as a
32:50brand or as a content creator, I'm
32:52trying to get you to spend as many
32:53memorable minutes as you can with me.
32:55The fact that I managed to get you to
32:56spend an an hour with me means we've
32:59gone from like zero of attention to
33:00trust within that hour. But, through
33:02short-form, that's going to take
33:04weeks, months, years. So, it doesn't
33:07mean to say that you can't go from
33:08awareness to trust or attention to trust
33:10within one asset or one video. It's just
33:14you're never going to achieve that
33:15through short-form. It can absolutely
33:16happen in long-form, and that's why I'm
33:18completely obsessed with like long-form
33:20as a media form.
33:22>> Grace, when I hear you talk, you know,
33:25you are
33:26so knowledgeable about
33:29all of all things marketing, all things
33:31brands. You understand it because you
33:34have I mean, dedicated a incredible
33:37amount of your 20s, I mean, all of your
33:4020s to this. But, it didn't start off
33:43this way.
33:44And so, I want to go back. Where did we
33:46start?
33:47>> I started getting um rejected from all
33:50of my
33:52uh university choices, but I ended up
33:54going to a fine university. It just
33:56wasn't my first choice, and I meet my
33:58life partner there. I meet my best
33:59friends. I study history, and I finish
34:03that. Um so, I think I applied for like
34:0550 grad schemes, got rejected from all
34:07of them. Uh didn't have a clue what I
34:09was doing. Landed myself in an
34:11internship in experiential marketing
34:12because it was literally the only thing
34:14that accepted me. Uh and then I kind of
34:16turned around, and I was like, I think I
34:17want to be on TV, and I think I want to
34:18tell stories uh as a news presenter, as
34:21a journalist. And I go study journalism.
34:23I'd got four uh work opportunities lined
34:26up through with the the BBC, with
34:28Global, like some of the big companies
34:29in the UK. I was like, this is it. I'm
34:31running. The world shuts down. All the
34:33opportunities close their doors. They
34:34don't invite anyone new in because we're
34:36in a state of panic and crisis. And so
34:38that's when I turned to social media.
34:40And I just started posting content. And
34:45it was so cringe. Like it was painfully
34:47cringe. And it was like, "Hey, the
34:49world's locked down and all the
34:50opportunities have closed, but like can
34:52I would love to go for a virtual coffee
34:53with someone in this world?" I was
34:55inundated with responses. I had execs
34:59from like the biggest studios in the UK
35:00being like, "Let's jump on a call." Like
35:02they were all bored in lockdown. They
35:04didn't know what to do. I had so many
35:05people and that was the moment where I
35:07didn't realize what I was doing, but I
35:08started building a personal brand. And
35:11it was the first time I realized that a
35:13personal brand was going to be a magnet
35:14for opportunities. Eventually led to me
35:17building my like social media management
35:19business. And I I started building my
35:22brand online. I just shared the journey.
35:24Like I shared the messiness. I shared
35:26the learnings. I offered as much value
35:28as I could at the time as I was
35:29learning.
35:30And so what happened when Steve,
35:33who at the time Steven Bartlett, who was
35:36only really known I would say if you I
35:38always say if you lived in Manchester,
35:40which is a city in the north in the UK,
35:42cuz that's where he built his business.
35:43He was like really well known in that
35:45area of the world. Or you worked in
35:47social media because he built this
35:49incredible social media marketing agency
35:51and loads of people looked up to him. So
35:53he when he posted on
35:55LinkedIn looking for a social media
35:56manager because he just left his agency
35:57and he wanted a personal social media
35:59manager.
36:00I didn't have to do much selling because
36:02I'd been selling myself through my
36:04outbound social media strategy all that
36:05time. And it's funny because I then went
36:08into build his brand in the Dark Horse
36:10CEO brand and I was high number three of
36:12what ended up being 120 by the time I
36:14left. And we were just not willing not
36:19to win. So we would work harder. We
36:20would do more experiments. We would try
36:22new things. We would think about it
36:24differently. We had naivety on our side,
36:26which was a blessing. None of us had
36:28ever worked in podcasting before, but we
36:30we all understood the first principles
36:31of like attention and storytelling.
36:33>> And so you join, you're hired number
36:36three. What was the subscriber count of
36:39the channel at the time when you joined?
36:41>> On YouTube it was 8,000.
36:43>> And when the day you left?
36:45>> 13 million.
36:47So like we went from 8,000 on YouTube to
36:49100,000 in the first year. And then the
36:52next year we did 100k to a million. And
36:54then the next year we did one million to
36:55five million. So the rate of compounding
36:57was evidence to us. Like it wasn't just
36:59a theory or this thing of like
37:01compounding consistency. We were seeing
37:02it happen in real time.
37:04>> What were those early days like?
37:06>> Intense. We sacrificed pretty much
37:07everything for it. Like we'd have
37:08breakfast, lunch, and dinner together,
37:10worked all day every day, but it was the
37:12best. Like it was so messy and every day
37:16was like, "Guys, we've got to get an
37:17episode live on Monday. Who are we going
37:19to get to film this Friday?" All on the
37:22phone trying to find guests because we
37:23had no credibility yet. Like why would
37:25anyone come on our show? And the rules
37:27were like, "We're not willing to put
37:29anything out that doesn't feel like our
37:30current standard. And we don't skip.
37:33Like we just don't skip. Like it goes
37:34out there 8:00 a.m. no matter what. Like
37:36all costs." He was like, "If we don't
37:38skip and we keep getting better each
37:39week, we will become the biggest in the
37:40world." Like there's no sign off. There
37:42was no layers of uh decision-making.
37:44Like Steve sat me down on day one. He
37:46was like, "So you're going to start
37:46posting?" And I was like, "Huh?" I was
37:49like, "On your channels?" He was like,
37:50"Well, if you don't post, you don't
37:51learn."
37:52And I remember Steve saying to me, "Your
37:53first 90 days is going to be steep
37:55learning learning curve of your life,
37:56and then you're going to go and do it."
37:57So I just spent as much time learning,
38:00absorbing, listening, activating,
38:02experimenting as I possibly could. And
38:04it was that mindset, honestly, that like
38:06I carried you for the next five years.
38:07Like I would have social media managers
38:09start and I was like, "So when are you
38:09going to post today?" And again they'd
38:11have that like panic moment. And then my
38:12role became building and scaling the
38:14team to also have that mindset. I have
38:17like a lightning round of questions cuz
38:19I'm like I've always like wondered these
38:20things. So first and foremost, who you
38:21were editing cuz I know that you guys
38:23got an editor after you were editing the
38:24videos at the beginning. Who was editing
38:25that?
38:25>> No, so the initial team was um I joined
38:29he had a manager, so Dom
38:32who technically I guess was my manager,
38:33but we didn't really have managers. Um
38:35and Jack who was hired number one who is
38:38co-founder of The Diary of a CEO. He is
38:40editor producer. So, me and him worked
38:42alongside each other to yeah, do pretty
38:45much everything.
38:46>> So, Jack was the one who actually did
38:48the video editing. So, like
38:50>> He would do it first pause.
38:51>> No, I would sit No, I would sit
38:54So, we had a studio.
38:55We had to sit in the studio in death
38:58silence. Like if you made even like a
39:00peep, it would ruin the whole like the
39:01whole show. So, we'd sit there like
39:03these episodes like two hours long like
39:04all sweating cuz the air con had to be
39:06turned off.
39:07>> In his kitchen, right?
39:08>> kitchen. Like I'm sat behind the desk
39:09making notes about the trailer. Then I
39:11go away with Jack. We'd be like, "Okay,
39:12I think it's going to be this bit, this
39:13bit, this bit."
39:15We'd then work together to figure out
39:17what it would look like, what the hook
39:19was. We'd
39:20>> Steve would get involved cuz we're we're
39:20sitting around a table like this. We
39:22were working to the wire pretty much
39:23every episode cuz there's like no one in
39:24the team. And his Wi-Fi was not strong
39:27enough in his house. It would get to
39:28like 4:00 a.m. the day of the episode
39:30and he would have to cycle to his
39:32brother's porch cuz his brother had
39:34high-speed Wi-Fi to get the episode
39:36live. And then he would text me at 6:00
39:38and pass the baton on. And then I would
39:39get all the assets ready and link it
39:41back to the phone. And we did that every
39:42week for like two years before we
39:43started getting a team. And then I would
39:44pass the responsibility on and we and we
39:46developed systems and then people didn't
39:48have to stay up all night.
39:49>> And we were growing into getting the
39:50team. We were getting better caliber of
39:51guests. We were doing better edits. We
39:53obviously hired incredible trailer
39:54editors and it just set the precedent
39:56for what we were going to do. We
39:58repeatedly became and named the top
40:00podcast in the world or you're only a
40:02second behind Joe Rogan or the biggest
40:03views. When those things happen, someone
40:05would send a message and then be like,
40:06"Okay, cool. So, what trailer is going
40:07live tomorrow?" It was never for those
40:09things. It was for the idea that we were
40:11just writing the blueprint for what this
40:13industry would be.
40:14And every day it was our responsibility
40:16to get better and better and better to
40:18keep raising the bar for the industry.
40:20And I think when you're not chasing like
40:22the accolades
40:23and you're chasing something that's a
40:24bit more meaningful and deeper and
40:28intrinsic, you can just keep going for a
40:30lot longer, you know? Because otherwise
40:31what happens is you reach those like
40:33mountain tops and then you realize that
40:35it wasn't ever a mountain top and you
40:37were just like the next mountain has
40:38appeared in front of you and you just
40:39get too tired. You're like, I just can't
40:41keep chasing the next thing. But it was
40:43never about chasing. It was like
40:45growing an industry and it was our
40:46responsibility to like keep growing that
40:49and that's I think what fueled us as
40:51well as like the learning. Like I never
40:53stopped learning every single day in
40:54that business from the day one till the
40:56end of when I left every day was a
40:59learning day. There were so many
41:00incredible minds in there, the guests
41:02that we brought on, the conversations I
41:04was exposed to. Like I just saw it as
41:06the best learning opportunity of
41:08probably the fastest learning experience
41:11I'll ever go through in my life.
41:12>> I want to talk about that and how you
41:14guys were testing. But I'm I'm actually
41:16curious I have to ask this. You talked
41:18about how it was hard to get guests at
41:20the beginning. For anyone that is
41:22because I mean we were there, right? But
41:24um I am curious like in those early days
41:26getting guests, what were you saying to
41:28get them on there? Was Was it everyone
41:30on the team was trying to pull someone
41:32in? Was it mainly Steve that was like he
41:35was in charge of that?
41:36>> Steve never wanted to ask a guest to
41:38come on the show. But I don't think
41:40without his existing audience we would
41:42have ever been able to get any guests. I
41:44think it's almost impossible to start a
41:46podcast or a long-form show without
41:48existing audience because getting people
41:51to trust you enough to spend 10, 20, 30,
41:55an hour with you without having that
41:57existing audience base, I think it's so
41:59hard. So whenever I see sort of people
42:02going, I just want to start a podcast
42:04but they have like 1,000 followers on
42:06Instagram, I'm like that's going to be a
42:07hard climb. Why don't you work with
42:09someone who's got an existing audience
42:10because it's just going to make your
42:11life so much easier. But I mean at the
42:13start our whole mindset was it's a
42:15numbers game. If we message a thousand
42:17people, we're going to get ten people
42:18who say yes. So we would message a
42:20thousand people every single week. And
42:22when we hit the limit on Steve's DMs, we
42:25would find their emails. We'd create a
42:26new account. We would do anything. It
42:27was all about what we could control.
42:29Maybe they have a book coming out and it
42:32makes sense that they're on a press run
42:34and they will come and do your podcast
42:36because they're doing a lot of other
42:36podcasts. We tried to be where we could
42:39strategic about the guest because we
42:41knew that one guest would unlock another
42:42guest would unlock another guest. So we
42:43had like gates of unlock to reach out to
42:46guests and we were just trying to find
42:48like the people around that person. If
42:51we were like, "Hey, we want Obama." who
42:52they eventually did last year, "We're
42:55going to start here and demonstrate that
42:56we can have a political conversation
42:58with like Boris Johnson. How do we get
42:59Boris Johnson? Okay, well we need to
43:01have this person over here." and then
43:02eventually the person in the middle
43:03would be like, "Oh, I've seen that show.
43:05I've seen a lot of my friends go on. I
43:06trust it. I'll come on." It's the same
43:08marketing strategy that Triangle Bikinis
43:10used to get Kendall Jenner to wear their
43:12bikinis. I don't know if you've heard
43:13the story.
43:14So this Australian bikini brand that
43:15they went completely viral in the late
43:172016 and they wanted Kendall Jenner to
43:20wear their bikini. Like they knew that
43:22if Kendall Jenner wore it, they were
43:23going to go viral. They were going to
43:24take off. They needed her to wear it.
43:25They tried to get hold of Kendall. She
43:27obviously gets a million inquiries a
43:28day. So they were like, "How do we
43:29actually get to her?" So what they did
43:32is they found her circle of friends and
43:34they sent like ten bikinis to all of her
43:36friends. All of her friends start
43:37wearing the bikinis because they've been
43:39gifted it. They're famous. They're like,
43:40"This is so cool. These are nice
43:41bikinis."
43:42Kendall Jenner's team reached out to
43:43Triangle and they're like, "Hey, um
43:46Kendall really wants some of your
43:47bikinis. All of her friends are wearing
43:48them. Like can you like sort her some
43:50out?" So they like infiltrated the
43:52friendship group. They built trust and
43:53they got proximity to her. So we always
43:55had the same sort of mindset. It was
43:57like, "How do you reach that person?
43:58Okay, well let's go to like this first
44:00layer and then get closer and then get
44:01closer and then we'll finally like reach
44:03the target." And then what to put that
44:04target unlocks that target unlocks that
44:06target. What's an example of data that
44:08directly changed something be within the
44:11show?
44:11>> I think when YouTube introduced the
44:14retention graphs, that was a big
44:15game-changer for us, I think. We play
44:17around a lot with understanding like
44:19where retention spikes would happen.
44:21It's all changed now, but at the time we
44:23had guests that would fit into four
44:24different categories.
44:26And we'd have understanding that within
44:27that category retention spikes would
44:29happen at certain moments. So, in the
44:31edit of the episode, for example, like
44:33on future episodes within that industry,
44:34we would lead with the retention spikes
44:36and try and make as many retention
44:39spikes that we could create within an
44:40episode. And that was a big game-changer
44:43for us because we found that we were
44:45always starting episodes with tell us
44:46about your story. And actually, people
44:48just want to get to the action. They
44:49want to get to the advice. So, we would
44:51Jack would create the edit so that that
44:52came first. I mean, a huge thing is when
44:55we introduced like pre-production
44:56testing. So, what we used to do at the
44:58very start was we put the episode live
45:00and we'd test two thumbnails.
45:02And whichever one got more click-through
45:04rate was the thumbnail that it became.
45:06And we were like, why do we wait until
45:08the episode's out to test that? Because
45:10if we knew what people clicked on, then
45:11we could make the title it. Then we
45:13could front-load the episode with that
45:14topic. Like, we could do so much the
45:16episode if we knew that information
45:18before. So, when we would record the
45:20episode, someone would be in the room
45:22very manual at the start writing down
45:24the lines that they thought were like
45:25the key lines based on understanding of
45:27what people click on. We'd put that all
45:29into a spreadsheet and turn them all
45:31into thumbnails. And all of those
45:33thumbnails would go into pre-production
45:35testing. So, we'd understand what people
45:36were clicking on more than others. And
45:38sometimes you'd put like a title out and
45:40we're getting like 20% more
45:41click-through rate. And our whole
45:43mindset was like, wouldn't it be such a
45:45shame if that podcast episode, which is
45:47the same podcast episode that they're
45:48going to get no matter what they click
45:49on, got 20% less clicks because we
45:52didn't know what the right title was.
45:54So, our whole mindset became kill the
45:56guesswork. We do meta ad testing. At
45:58some points, we were testing 100
46:00thumbnails per episode. It was something
46:02that scaled as a whole team dedicated to
46:04it now. I mean, they've created
46:05softwares that automatically run the
46:06whole thing. So, it's it's a completely
46:09different space
46:10to what it was, but it was the same
46:12mindset. It was like wouldn't it be a
46:13shame if this episode never saw the
46:15light of day because we didn't get the
46:17title right.
46:18And we knew the episodes were valuable,
46:20but we wanted to work on increasing who
46:24saw it and the visibility towards it. I
46:26mean, that's where the trailers all came
46:27from as well. Like, we never saw
46:28ourselves as a podcast saying this to
46:30you guys. We We saw ourselves as a show.
46:32And so, therefore, we weren't playing
46:34the podcast game. We were playing the
46:35TV, the media, the movie game. And that
46:38was all like, how do you get bums on
46:40seats in a cinema? We just always
46:41thought about it differently, I guess.
46:43And the packaging was really important.
46:45>> From the very beginning, you somehow had
46:47the quantity and still maintained an an
46:50element of of quality that you felt were
46:53like the was the bare minimum that you
46:54guys needed to have. Is that fair to
46:56say?
46:56>> It's funny you say that because if you
46:58If you look back to the
47:00>> start compared to what gets produced
47:01today.
47:02>> It's like a primary school versus like
47:05PhD. Like, yeah, I guess at the time in
47:08the moment it was good enough.
47:10And we had
47:12standards of what it had to be.
47:14And we weren't willing to put anything
47:15out that didn't meet that. So, we had I
47:17remember we sometimes would be up
47:18against the wire. We'd have an interview
47:20and it just wasn't good enough. And the
47:21guest just didn't perform in the way we
47:23needed to. And obviously, that level has
47:26increased over time to the point where
47:27there's an entire production team,
47:29pre-production. They do pre-production
47:30calls. They speak with them about what
47:32works, what doesn't work, how they're
47:33going to have to deliver the
47:34conversation.
47:35Uh they do some like speaker training
47:37with them. It's like a whole 'nother
47:38level of production now.
47:39>> Oh, speaker training as well.
47:41>> Yeah, like and making sure that they've
47:43there's evidence of them being able to
47:44deliver on podcast in the way that we
47:46need it to because half of the work is
47:48from the guest, right? So, as it scaled,
47:50the quality has continuously improved.
47:53And I think that comes from like the
47:54hiring mentality they have. Like, they
47:56are not willing to hire anyone who's not
47:58the best.
47:59And they are absolutely unshakeable
48:02about that. So, like, I remember
48:04trying to hire a role below me, head of
48:07social, and
48:09I must have done 50 in-person
48:11interviews, and to get to an in-person
48:13interview you've had to have gone
48:14through about four stages to get there.
48:16And still no one was right, because we
48:18were just not willing to bring in anyone
48:20who wasn't the very best at what they
48:22did and understood the culture of what
48:23we were building. It was an
48:25understanding that if you brought in
48:26anyone who wasn't at that caliber, it
48:28was actually disrespectful for like the
48:30people who were there. So, I wasn't
48:32willing to bring in anyone who wasn't
48:33going to raise the bar of everything we
48:35were doing.
48:36>> My gosh, for anyone that's watching,
48:38they may see this and be like, "Well,
48:39I'm not there yet." But at the end of
48:41the day, you guys did start where
48:42everyone else starts, right? So, to that
48:45point, there is a a version of like,
48:47okay, like there are steps that will
48:49increase your odds of success, and you
48:52guys talk a lot about the 1% better. You
48:54know, our company literally lives by
48:56that because of you guys. What's also
48:58crazy is that I mean, people like me are
48:59studying it, right? We study what you
49:01guys figured out in those early days,
49:05and it's really what you locked in
49:07when you were sitting all together at
49:08that same table
49:10that I think set the tone of where the
49:12industry went, which is really, really,
49:14really impressive. So, you were around a
49:17lot of very successful individuals.
49:20What
49:21did you learn from being around all of
49:23those people?
49:24>> The common thing I saw with sort of the
49:26most successful people that we had at
49:29the table, they were willing to just
49:31start, like, build the plane while it's
49:33flying, figure out the mistakes as it
49:35was happening, and glue it all together
49:37and make it work. It's like why I
49:38started YouTube way before I was like
49:40ready. Like, I don't even know what
49:41being ready is, but like I was like,
49:42"I'm just going to pick up the camera."
49:43I ordered a camera the next day, I
49:44started filming and the next week I
49:45posted, because if I didn't start, I
49:48would be now in this position six months
49:50later with no learnings under my belt,
49:52still trying to figure it out, probably
49:54still going to post a really average
49:55episode start with. Like, if you don't
49:57start, you don't learn. And the other
49:59part is like the pivot. How many
50:00entrepreneurs start a business and it
50:01fails? How quickly can you pick yourself
50:03up from that rejection or that failure
50:05and start again and not sit in it? So,
50:07now I get to work with like all sorts of
50:09founders and people and I think those
50:11like identifying traits are sort of what
50:13I look for when I want to work with
50:14people. I'm like, do you have a bias
50:15towards optimism and a bias towards
50:17action? Like those two things. And
50:18they're different things cuz like action
50:19is
50:20make it happen no matter the odds. Like,
50:22if I ask you like to do something, are
50:24you going to figure out every way to
50:26make the impossible happen tomorrow? And
50:28everyone on the team had that as well.
50:29We'd have a guest in the UK who's all
50:32the flights were canceled and we had to
50:33shoot that episode that day in LA. There
50:35was no part of our brain that said they
50:37wouldn't be in that seat by 3:00 p.m. It
50:39was just how.
50:40I mean, we had like billionaires turn up
50:42and they turned up by themselves in a
50:44pair of jeans.
50:45They'd driven themselves there or they
50:46got the tube or something and they were
50:48like just really like
50:50human normal people. And I think having
50:52proximity to people with that level of
50:53wealth and that level of success and
50:55seeing such a normality within them is
50:57what made it all feel sort of attainable
51:01and relatable. Your fingerprints were
51:04all over this, right?
51:06And I know that there is this phenomenon
51:08that, you know, once you've built
51:10something or you've owned something and
51:11you've had ownership in something, it
51:12makes it harder to let go of.
51:14So, I can only imagine
51:16you know, the next chapter is is that
51:18you ultimately decide to leave the Diary
51:20of a CEO. And so, what was going through
51:22your mind during this time and what led
51:25you to that decision?
51:27It's funny because it was almost a year
51:29ago, probably like to the week, that I
51:31had the conversation about leaving. And
51:33it was something that I sat with for a
51:34while
51:36and I played out lots of different
51:37scenarios and I spoke to lots of people
51:39who were close to me. I'd spoken to
51:40people who'd left. I asked them what the
51:42world was like on the other side. Um
51:44and I basically had come to this point
51:47where I the choice was taken away from
51:48me because I'd been building and getting
51:51my personal brand at the same time as
51:53working that. It was a marketing channel
51:55we took advantage of in terms of
51:57commercial partnerships, in terms of
52:00organic growth, in terms of hiring. So
52:01it was very intertwined. And building my
52:04brand had started to lead sort of some
52:06opportunities that I didn't want to say
52:07no to. And I built a team of 20 who were
52:10working across multiple different shows.
52:12The system was running and it was kind
52:13of starting to run without me because I
52:15would be traveling for my own brand,
52:16traveling for work, meeting new teams,
52:18and we were taking the blueprint of what
52:19we'd created at The Diary of a CEO and
52:21applying it to all these new shows. I
52:23sort of felt like my ceiling had been
52:25reached here and as I said earlier, like
52:27I love startup phase. I love getting my
52:30hands dirty, being in the messy middle.
52:32And I really wanted to get back to that.
52:34And I was really happy with the people I
52:36had in place that I knew they were going
52:38to care about what I built as much as I
52:39did. And I mean, I sobbed my eyes out on
52:42my last day. Like I just I'm not a
52:44crier, but like I cried and cried and
52:46cried and cried. Like I felt like I was
52:48grieving something that I was no longer
52:51going to be my truth. And those people
52:52in that business are still some of my
52:54closest friends. Like in my last letter
52:55I sent to my team, I was like,
52:58"The flag is now yours. Like keep waving
52:59it. Like keep like carry it on for me."
53:02What scared you the most about walking
53:03away?
53:08So many things. I think identity was a
53:10huge one. Like I would do these
53:12podcasts, I would go and speak on stage
53:14and I'd be introduced as the brand
53:16director of The Diary of a CEO, Grace
53:17Andrews.
53:18And I was like, "Who am I when it's just
53:19Grace Andrews?" And what does that mean?
53:21And also like the the fear of going
53:23forward of I don't know who I am without
53:25The Diary of a CEO. So that was one of
53:27the biggest fears. And I guess the
53:30second one was without the comfort
53:32blanket of this huge success of what
53:35we've created,
53:37can I do this again?
53:39Or was it just right time, right place,
53:41right people. It took a minute, I think,
53:45to build up the confidence again to go,
53:47"No, I I know what I'm talking about." I
53:50remember putting up
53:52those first episodes of the vlog, and I
53:53think I said something along those lines
53:55of, "I'm going to find out if people are
53:56here for me or they're here for, like,
53:58proximity to Steve." And then I remember
53:59the feedback I had, and people were
54:01like, "I've I've never followed you
54:03because of the Tory ever see I followed
54:04you because of your content and your
54:06story." And I really had to sort of
54:09build up that confidence bank again, I
54:11think. I have this thing in my notes
54:13app, which is like my confidence bank.
54:15It's basically like a bank of when I get
54:17positive feedback. And it's not always
54:19positive feedback. It's sometimes I get
54:20a DM from someone, and they've never
54:22engaged with any of my content publicly,
54:24but they'll send me a message and
54:25they'll say, "I just wanted to let you
54:26know that, like,
54:28your advice has been the reason that
54:30we've been able to scale on marketing."
54:32And so, what I do is in the moments
54:34where I'm having a bit of a wobble or
54:35during these last 6 months of being
54:36like, "Who am I? What am I? Where am I
54:37going?" It's like truth and evidence
54:40that I can come back to. We're all going
54:42to have days where we wake up and we're
54:43like, "What am I doing? Do I even know
54:45what I'm talking about?" Like, it's just
54:46cold, hard truth that can't be denied.
54:48Like, that's that's real. And collecting
54:52that evidence is something that really
54:54helps my brain balance out the noise
54:56sometimes. I think the thing that I
54:58really, really related
54:59to when you started, you from the
55:01beginning were like, "I'm actually not
55:02quite sure
55:04a 100% what it is that, like, I'm going
55:06to form or what I'm going to build
55:08specifically. I just know that it's
55:09something."
55:10>> And you know, everyone was like, "This
55:12is all a marketing ploy. She knows
55:13exactly what she's doing." And I was
55:15like, "No, no, no. I actually have no
55:17idea." Like, people talk about building
55:19in public. Like, I was figuring it out
55:21in public. And I was like, "I want to
55:23show this part because
55:25I listen to so many podcasts. I'm
55:26addicted to podcasts. I love founder
55:28stories. It's like my favorite
55:29indulgence.
55:31And they always skip. They're like, "How
55:32did you figure out what it was that you
55:34actually wanted to do?" And I was like,
55:35"No one documents this, like
55:37entrepreneurship is so glamorized and
55:40glorified and the reality is is it's
55:42really freaking hard sometimes and that
55:45comes at a toll. I think this polished,
55:48fake, unattainable world puts
55:50entrepreneurship on this pedestal that
55:51feels so unachievable for people and the
55:54reality is is like it's hard out here.
55:56We're all figuring it out as we go
55:57along. It's messy and I didn't see
56:00anyone having panic attacks and telling
56:02me they were also building a successful
56:03business. I didn't see anyone saying
56:07this week has just been really hard and
56:08there's been no highs and it's I've been
56:10in like working from my bed office and I
56:12haven't got dressed all week and this is
56:14the reality of building a scaling
56:15business and I didn't see that. So I
56:19want to show that and I want to show
56:20that I can build something great and
56:22that is my reality as well. And don't
56:24get me wrong, like
56:25I have amazing highs too. Like I'll go
56:27from that and the next day I'll be
56:28invited to like a PR influencer
56:29breakfast. I'm living this like Hannah
56:31Montana life but then you realize that
56:32like everyone and you sit down at the
56:33breakfast and you go, how are you doing?
56:35And the my friend turns to me last week
56:37and she was like, honestly this has been
56:38one of the worst weeks I've built in
56:40this business but like here we are, all
56:41smiles. Do you know what I mean? So I
56:43need to show some of that because I
56:44think it's probably more important than
56:45showing the shiny success. Enough people
56:47do that.
56:48Speaking of shiny success,
56:50>> [laughter]
56:50>> you recently hit a very big milestone.
56:5310,000 subscribers on YouTube which is
56:56huge and not only that and on top of
56:59that you launched community service but
57:01I think the beautiful thing is seeing
57:03how the messy middle has paid off and
57:05especially coming to the point where you
57:06really have identified what you want to
57:08do. Going back to what you were talking
57:10about, making that decision
57:12to leave the world that you knew.
57:15We have this principle about find your
57:16allies and I think in a lot of ways I'm
57:18sure it was really scary cuz it almost
57:20felt like you were leaving those allies
57:21behind but
57:23that being said, those allies are still
57:26very much here. So much so that we have
57:29a message from them
57:30>> Oh my god, still.
57:32>> Grace Andrews, this is for you.
57:38>> Hi mate, just thought I'd leave you a
57:40quick message to remind you just how
57:42proud I am of you and how happy I am for
57:45you and we both know how much you've
57:48helped me. We both know that whenever I
57:51just send a text or WhatsApp or voice
57:54note or call, you're always there to
57:56give me more lessons and more advice and
57:59that's the thing I'll always be thankful
58:01for the most is just how much of a
58:03wonderful human being you are and
58:05>> [music]
58:06>> that I'm privileged that I get to say
58:11>> Hello G.
58:13Um,
58:13sky's the limit. I'm incredibly excited
58:16to see [music] where you go and what you
58:17do and I have zero zero surprises that
58:20you would go on to do amazing things.
58:22>> A quick note [music] to share how proud
58:26I personally am of you and how much of
58:28an inspiration you are to me [music] on
58:30everything that you've done since
58:31leaving. You've just gone out there and
58:32absolutely proven to everyone that it's
58:34possible. That in itself is a huge
58:35inspiration. [music] You should be so
58:37proud of what you've done.
58:38>> It's always been my the greatest
58:40privilege for me to watch you grow into
58:42the woman you are today and I'm so so
58:44glad the whole world gets to see how
58:46incredible you are and how inspiring you
58:47are and I'm missing you lots and I wish
58:49you could be with us but I am [music]
58:52cheering you from afar.
58:53>> 10,000 followers on YouTube is huge. I
58:56can't wait for you to hit 100,000. No
58:58doubt that will be
58:59>> [music]
58:59>> sometime very soon. I love you lots and
59:02I'm so proud of you.
59:03>> I am so proud of watching you become the
59:05person you have. From being at the
59:07Durham CEO together and growing the
59:10platform pages and podcast to
59:13getting to go up on stage with you and
59:15you were there for my first talk on
59:17stage and you showed me that it was
59:19possible to do things like that and now
59:21I get to do that which is wild but it
59:22all started because you showed us that
59:25was possible.
59:29How lucky am I? Like that shows like why
59:32it [music] was so so hard to make the
59:34decision to leave because
59:36the people out there are like the most
59:38wonderful people in the entire world. So
59:41This is just a proof of of the legacy
59:43that you've created there and the legacy
59:45you're going to continue to create.
59:47Maybe you may have left that project,
59:49but I those people are still with you.
59:50[music] I personally want to thank you
59:52so much because you've been a mentor of
59:53mine without even knowing me for a very
59:56long time. And you know, when we [music]
59:58first started the show, one of my dreams
1:00:01was to interview you.
1:00:03>> Crazy.
1:00:04>> And
1:00:05>> [music]
1:00:05>> you are just truly such an inspiration.
1:00:07I mean that with every bone in my body
1:00:10because I know [music] that I'm one of
1:00:12those people that would not be chasing
1:00:13my own dream if it weren't because
1:00:15you're in the world. So
1:00:17Thank you so much. [music]
1:00:18>> It's just been the most phenomenal
1:00:19experience. So it's a privilege and
1:00:22thank you [music] so much for having me.
1:00:23>> Thank you.
1:00:25>> All right, guys. You know the drill. We
1:00:26are going to be diving into the anatomy
1:00:29of Grace's dream. We're going to be
1:00:30going over the principles that came up
1:00:32in Grace's journey and because there are
1:00:34so many, we are going to be putting up a
1:00:36list of all of them and we're just going
1:00:38to be touching on the few that we find
1:00:40to be the most important. And if there
1:00:42any that you want us to touch on again
1:00:43in a future video, let us know. All
1:00:45right, let's dive in.
1:00:46All right, our first principle is the
1:00:49proximity principle. So this principle
1:00:52is basically that your environment
1:00:53shapes your outcomes. Meaning being
1:00:55physically present around certain people
1:00:58or places or ideas actually increases
1:01:01your odds of success. And when you look
1:01:02at in Grace's story, she didn't stumble
1:01:04into working with Steve. She literally
1:01:06chose it deliberately. She even talks
1:01:07about how she applied to that role
1:01:09knowing that being around him would
1:01:11accelerate her career. And there are
1:01:14plenty of studies that prove that who
1:01:16you have in your proximity matters a
1:01:18lot. There's a professor at Harvard
1:01:20Business School named David McClelland
1:01:21who did foundational research on
1:01:23motivation and achievement. And one of
1:01:25the most powerful things that he
1:01:27discovered was that your success is
1:01:29heavily influenced by a reference group.
1:01:33And basically this is a small number of
1:01:35people that you spend the most amount of
1:01:36time with. And so by deliberately
1:01:37choosing that reference group, the
1:01:39people that we learn from, the people
1:01:41that we compare ourselves to, we
1:01:42significantly shape our own motivations
1:01:44and achievements. And this means that
1:01:45certain people set really high standards
1:01:47for us, meaning being around them
1:01:49actually makes us better. And there are
1:01:52people on the other hand that do the
1:01:53exact opposite and make us worse. And I
1:01:56think the thing about the proximity
1:01:57principle is that sometimes it feels
1:01:59like it's not in our control or that it
1:02:01is something that is like really hard to
1:02:02change. Because where you live or the
1:02:05co-workers that you have around you, a
1:02:06lot of these elements don't really feel
1:02:07like they're in our control. But when
1:02:09you really think about it, when you
1:02:10really think about all the principles
1:02:11that we have control over, I would
1:02:12honestly say that proximity is the thing
1:02:15that we have the most control over.
1:02:16Maybe the job that you have right now or
1:02:18the place that you live right now is not
1:02:20something that you can change at the
1:02:21moment. But look at your friend group.
1:02:23Look at the place that you go get
1:02:24coffee. Look at the activities that you
1:02:26do on the weekend. And so right now if
1:02:28you are in a place in your career where
1:02:29you want to level up, I want you to ask
1:02:32yourselves this. Who are the top three
1:02:33people in your field
1:02:35that if you were in their orbit would
1:02:37change the trajectory of your life?
1:02:40And ask yourself what is one thing that
1:02:41you could do this week to get closer to
1:02:42them.
1:02:43A lot of times you're just one person
1:02:45away from making the dream happen. All
1:02:47right, moving on to the success loop.
1:02:50The success loop is take action, fail,
1:02:53pivot, and you do that over and over
1:02:54again until that failure turns into
1:02:56success. Now the most successful people,
1:02:58they will go in that cycle over and over
1:03:01and over again till they actually
1:03:03succeed in whatever it is that they're
1:03:04trying to test. Now most people will go
1:03:06through a success loop cycle in maybe a
1:03:09week, a month, sometimes months. When
1:03:11you look at Grace's story, they were
1:03:13going through the success loop on a
1:03:14constant basis. They were figuring out
1:03:17what was going to work. What was
1:03:18actually going to get them to a place
1:03:20where they were growing. They were
1:03:23sometimes doing a success loop a day,
1:03:25maybe multiple of them. They took it so
1:03:27seriously that they literally have a
1:03:29head of failure and experimentation,
1:03:31which her job, Grace Miller by the way,
1:03:34she helped us out in setting up that
1:03:36whole surprise at the end. So, truly,
1:03:38thank you so much, Grace. But, they
1:03:39literally have a head of failure and
1:03:41experimentation, which shows you how
1:03:43seriously they take the success loop.
1:03:45And so, Grace was implementing this in
1:03:47her social media strategy when she first
1:03:49started from day one all the way until
1:03:51she became the brand director at Flight
1:03:53Story. This leads us into the volume
1:03:56principle. The volume principle is kind
1:03:58of what it sounds like. It's that
1:03:59success becomes predictable when you
1:04:01increase the number of high-quality
1:04:03attempts that you make. Grace talks
1:04:05about how their whole mindset was a
1:04:06numbers game, that if they were to
1:04:08message 1,000 people, they were going to
1:04:10get 10 people to say yes. There's a
1:04:12saying that volume negates luck. And I
1:04:14really love that because when really
1:04:15when you look at chasing any dream or
1:04:18any journey, understanding that the more
1:04:21you do something, the luckier you're
1:04:22going to get. And so, if you really want
1:04:24to increase your odds of success, volume
1:04:26is your best way to get there. Currently
1:04:28in our journey with this channel,
1:04:30currently we're reaching out to, I would
1:04:32say, just a few select guests every
1:04:34week. I did the math, and at the rate
1:04:36that we are going in, it would take us
1:04:386.5 years to reach out to the same
1:04:41amount of people that they had to reach
1:04:43out to in one week, which is not good.
1:04:46And this explains why they grew at the
1:04:49rate that they did. On our end, we're
1:04:51depending on luck that the three people
1:04:53that we reach out to this week, that one
1:04:55of them is going to say yes. The thing
1:04:57is, successful people, they understand
1:04:59the volume principle, I think, better
1:05:01than anyone else. The person who sends
1:05:021,000 messages will beat the person who
1:05:05crafts the perfect 10 messages every
1:05:08single time. Alex Hormozi talks about
1:05:11increasing his output so much that it
1:05:13would become unreasonable that he
1:05:14wouldn't succeed. So, ask yourself, in
1:05:17what area of my dream could I increase
1:05:20the volume of my output so much so that
1:05:24it would make it unreasonable for me not
1:05:26to succeed. All right, moving on to our
1:05:27next principle, which is data as a North
1:05:30Star. This principle is basically kind
1:05:33of what it sounds like. It's using
1:05:34measurable feedback to guide decisions,
1:05:36refine your strategy, and to remove any
1:05:38guesswork, as Gray says. I've recently
1:05:40realized that we underestimate the power
1:05:42of data. I think that we don't search
1:05:44for data most times because we don't
1:05:47think we have the time. At the beginning
1:05:48of our business, I honestly feel like
1:05:50data felt like this like luxurious thing
1:05:54that big companies had the money to pay
1:05:57for. But, I think that that is honestly
1:06:00what prevents a lot of people from
1:06:02getting to becoming those big companies.
1:06:04And if anything, if we were to apply it
1:06:06sooner, we would grow a lot faster
1:06:08because data is truly the best North
1:06:11Star. And so, with the data, you want to
1:06:13ask yourself, "What are the numbers
1:06:14telling me? Where are people actually
1:06:16responding? What patterns are emerging?"
1:06:19And you see that they were doing that
1:06:20with 100 thumbnails. I mean, who
1:06:22literally does that? Nobody. And it just
1:06:24shows you how committed they were to
1:06:26really removing the guesswork and
1:06:28finding out the data that was going to
1:06:30point them in the right direction. And I
1:06:32am sure there are plenty of areas in
1:06:34your own dream right now, and in maybe
1:06:36in your own business, if you just take
1:06:38the extra time to go search for the data
1:06:41or to go find the data, you'll make a
1:06:43better decision. It might prevent you
1:06:45making a mistake and actually accelerate
1:06:47your growth, which brings us to our next
1:06:49principle, evaluate the right metrics.
1:06:53Now, evaluating the right metrics means
1:06:55that you're measuring progress based on
1:06:57what actually moves you forward and
1:06:59toward your dream, and not on a
1:07:01surface-level based performance.
1:07:03Everyone wants to go viral. Everyone
1:07:05wants followers. But, none of it means
1:07:07anything if it doesn't fulfill what
1:07:08you're actually chasing. And that's
1:07:09exactly what Grace spoke about. If your
1:07:11goal is to go viral so you can sell a
1:07:13product, let's say, and your customer
1:07:16base is female. And let's say that you
1:07:18hop on a trend and then you gain 100,000
1:07:21followers, but they are all men.
1:07:23Literally, those followers mean nothing.
1:07:24This is why she speaks about A, knowing
1:07:26what your destination is, and B,
1:07:28tracking the right metric that will get
1:07:30you there. On the surface, it might look
1:07:33like chasing the 1 million views is
1:07:35going to bring you business, but the
1:07:36truth is most times it's the 100
1:07:39comments with like die-hard fans that
1:07:41actually move the needle in your dream.
1:07:44All right, moving on.
1:07:46Excellence as a value. This principle
1:07:48first came up when we studied Steve
1:07:49Jobs. And it's basically this principle
1:07:52that you do more than the standard. You
1:07:54care about the details that no one else
1:07:56will see. Now, Steve Jobs talks about
1:07:58how his father would create these
1:07:59cabinets. And maybe you wouldn't see on
1:08:01the back of a cabinet the work or the
1:08:03craftsmanship of it, right? And so, you
1:08:05could, in theory, just put some plywood
1:08:07there. But he talked about how his
1:08:08father was like, "But you will know that
1:08:10it's there. You will know that you did
1:08:12not do 100%." And so, Steve would
1:08:15require his team to create perfection
1:08:18even in the parts of the Mac computer
1:08:21that nobody would see. I can't help but
1:08:23when I talk to Grace to see that same
1:08:26exact obsession exists within her. This
1:08:29brings up this notion of the with the
1:08:301%, which Steven Bartlett and The Diary
1:08:33of a CEO team speak about a lot. And
1:08:35Grace does, too. There's this video
1:08:36where she's showing this PR box that her
1:08:39and the marketing team were designing,
1:08:40and they took them like 6 months to
1:08:41design. The level of detail that went
1:08:43into this PR box, like I promise you, I
1:08:45know PR boxes are like super extra
1:08:47nowadays, but you could tell that they
1:08:48really took it seriously. And there's
1:08:50plenty of interviews where they talk
1:08:51about the the air freshener, and they
1:08:53even measure the CO2 levels in the room
1:08:57for the interview. And I think a lot of
1:08:58the times when we think about
1:08:59excellence, we think about it as like
1:09:01this big overarching like I am the best,
1:09:04but in reality it's actually just
1:09:05focusing on like this tiny details and
1:09:08improving where you can, even if it's
1:09:111%. Our next principle is compounding
1:09:14consistency. Now, compounding
1:09:15consistency is this principle that small
1:09:18repeated actions build exponential
1:09:20outcomes over time. When you look at
1:09:22Grace and and their journey with I will
1:09:24CEO, it wasn't easy for them at first.
1:09:26Grace mentions this hockey stick growth
1:09:28in the interview. Once they started
1:09:31posting once a week, that was when they
1:09:33got that hockey stick growth, right?
1:09:35Where it's like kind of plateaued and
1:09:36then it suddenly goes up. When you
1:09:38actually look at that, that is due to
1:09:40this principle of compounding
1:09:41consistency. I actually found this post
1:09:43from Grace where she spoke about Mr.
1:09:45Beast and it was his subscriber count
1:09:48from age 12 all the way to 25. And so
1:09:51when he was like 12 years old, he was at
1:09:52one subscriber and then when he was at
1:09:5425 it got to 184 million and God knows
1:09:57what he's at right now. I'm sure it's a
1:09:58lot more than that, but that is the
1:10:01compounding consistency in action and
1:10:02she literally talks about it in that
1:10:04post. And so at the beginning when you
1:10:05look at it they were like at 8,000 and
1:10:07then 100,000 and that's a by the way a
1:10:09very big jump. I think most people in
1:10:11that first year like they're not growing
1:10:13that quickly. Granted, they were really
1:10:15focusing on the volume, right? And that
1:10:17is a huge reason as to why they were
1:10:19even able to get to that point. When you
1:10:21show up consistently, at the beginning
1:10:23it might be a little bit flatlined, but
1:10:25then eventually it will multiply and it
1:10:28will compound. Moving on to our next
1:10:30principle, which is the art of
1:10:32attention. In another video we talk
1:10:33about how there are eight ways to gain
1:10:35attention. It's to do something
1:10:37unexpected, provide extreme value, have
1:10:39a strong POV, be consistently present,
1:10:42accomplishment, so you have to
1:10:43accomplish something really big,
1:10:44collaborate with those who have
1:10:45attention, tap into culture, and develop
1:10:48indisputable talent, which is by far the
1:10:50hardest one. And I want to focus on one
1:10:52of them right now, which is to be
1:10:53consistently present. This particular
1:10:56way of getting attention is the thing
1:10:58that people like Alex Hormozi and Gary
1:11:00Vee and yes even Diary of a CEO utilizes
1:11:03because they are so consistently present
1:11:05online that at a certain point you can't
1:11:07help but be like, "Wait, who is this? I
1:11:10keep seeing them." With Diary of a CEO,
1:11:11like I found them because I saw their
1:11:13shorts pop up so many times that
1:11:16eventually when the like long-form was
1:11:17actually fed to me, I recognized Steven
1:11:20and I was like, "Wait a minute, that's
1:11:21the guy from the shorts that I keep
1:11:22seeing. Who is this? Let me watch this
1:11:24episode." And that's literally how I
1:11:25came across Diary of a CEO. Ultimately,
1:11:28that is how people start to gain
1:11:29familiarity and then what could
1:11:31eventually lead to the trust and that
1:11:34connection. So,
1:11:36just put yourself out there. If there
1:11:37are any of you, by the way, who likes
1:11:39are hearing this and are a bit annoyed
1:11:41at talking about this obsession with
1:11:43attention, the thing I'll tell you is
1:11:44this is that we can't escape it. We are
1:11:47in an attention economy and so no matter
1:11:49what dream we have, you will increase
1:11:51your odds of success if you understand
1:11:53this skill. Mastering attention means
1:11:55understanding how to deliberately design
1:11:57it. It means understanding the
1:11:58psychology of human beings and obsessing
1:12:00over the pattern interrupts that make
1:12:02people stop and look. And I feel like
1:12:03Grace really understands this. And even
1:12:07just, you know, hearing how at the top
1:12:09of the content funnel that she was
1:12:10describing, attention is the first
1:12:12thing. The game of attention is not,
1:12:16"Let me tell you what I want to tell
1:12:18you." It is, "Let me figure out how I
1:12:20can get you to stop and most importantly
1:12:22care." All right, moving on to our next
1:12:26principle, which is to build a personal
1:12:28brand. In her case, obviously, this is a
1:12:29very big thing because her personal
1:12:32brand led her to having a job with
1:12:33Steven Bartlett at Diary of a CEO and
1:12:35then it also led her to her next phase
1:12:38of her career, which is then leaving the
1:12:40Diary of a CEO, right? She does say that
1:12:42like having a personal brand isn't
1:12:43absolutely necessary, but I do agree
1:12:46with her that trust is a very big
1:12:49benefit of building one. I do want to do
1:12:51some research on personal brand. So,
1:12:52there was actually this one 2019 study
1:12:55that found that personal branding
1:12:57actually leads to greater career
1:12:59satisfaction. It's found that people who
1:13:01actively shape and communicate their
1:13:03personal brand, they feel more empowered
1:13:06and then ultimately are seen as more
1:13:07employable. And then there was this
1:13:09other study that found that over 93% of
1:13:11surveyed managers said that personal
1:13:14branding had a significant or a very
1:13:16significant influence on achieving
1:13:18professional success. And so, I think
1:13:20that on on both ends it's a it's an
1:13:21opportunity magnet and it also is a
1:13:25built-in audience that you are
1:13:26developing over time that will be there
1:13:28to support whatever it is that you
1:13:30decide to put out there. Now, our next
1:13:32principle is to know when to quit
1:13:33{slash} pivot. In a previous video, we
1:13:35speak about pivoting and the different
1:13:38types of pivoting that can exist in your
1:13:40life. And there was one in particular
1:13:41that I think applies to Grace's journey
1:13:43and that is the role pivot. And
1:13:44ultimately in your life, if you are at a
1:13:47current role or position, there are a
1:13:50few ways to know that you should leave
1:13:52or not. There are two in particular that
1:13:54I want to speak about in this video that
1:13:56are pertinent to Grace's, which is
1:13:57either that you've hit a ceiling or that
1:13:59you want more ownership. And I think in
1:14:00Grace's story, it's a little bit of
1:14:03both. And it's not to say that she
1:14:04wouldn't grow more if she had stayed
1:14:06because obviously Diary of a CEO flight
1:14:09story, I mean, that is a company that is
1:14:10facing tremendous growth and they're
1:14:12going to continue to grow. But it seems
1:14:14like she in some capacity felt that she
1:14:16had learned what she needed to learn
1:14:17from that experience and it was clear
1:14:19that she was ready for ownership. I
1:14:21think that what we think about pivoting
1:14:23or quitting is that we expect that
1:14:24things have to be really bad in order
1:14:26for you to leave. And that's not
1:14:27necessarily the case, right? I think
1:14:29that in her case, things were going
1:14:31really well. And ultimately that must
1:14:34have made it
1:14:35all the more difficult to make the
1:14:37decision that she made. I think this is
1:14:39where we would want to follow in Grace's
1:14:40footsteps. I think the heart of the
1:14:42reason that it felt like an obvious
1:14:43choice is because she had created
1:14:45undeniable proof, which is another
1:14:46principle of ours. Now, undeniable proof
1:14:49in our other dissections, if you will,
1:14:52has really come up when it comes to like
1:14:53business deals or strategic
1:14:55partnerships. Like we saw this applied
1:14:56in let's say Rihanna's story, right?
1:14:58Where she had undeniable proof of
1:15:02success in other partnerships where she
1:15:04put out other releases of other
1:15:06products, right? And so when she
1:15:07approached LVMH to ultimately make
1:15:09Fenty, she had that undeniable proof.
1:15:12And in Grace's case, what's interesting
1:15:14is that her undeniable proof was really
1:15:16for herself. This undeniable proof came
1:15:19up twice. It came when she applied to
1:15:21work with Steven Bartlett because she
1:15:23had
1:15:24um I don't I don't think we went into it
1:15:25too much in the interview, but she had
1:15:27this page called The Social Climber. Um
1:15:29and she had clients. And so Steven knew
1:15:31that she had She wasn't just calling
1:15:33herself a social media manager.
1:15:35She actually had social media
1:15:37experience. She had the undeniable proof
1:15:39to get that position. But then later on
1:15:41that undeniable proof was for her. So at
1:15:43the time that she decided to quit, she
1:15:44was making it in her uh speaking
1:15:47engagements and online and in her brand
1:15:49deals. And she had created enough
1:15:51undeniable proof knowing that she could
1:15:52do this on her own. And I think that
1:15:54that was actually something that I
1:15:56learned from this, which is undeniable
1:15:58proof isn't necessarily just for other
1:16:00people. Probably the most important
1:16:02person that it's for is yourself. And so
1:16:04if quitting or taking a chance is very
1:16:06difficult for you, if you absolutely
1:16:08need that certainty and that safety,
1:16:10where in your spare time can you create
1:16:12that undeniable proof for yourself so
1:16:14that you can go take that leap. And if
1:16:16even if you aren't thinking about
1:16:17leaving your current position, you're
1:16:19right now you're just chasing the dream.
1:16:20Finding areas where you can create
1:16:22undeniable proof for yourself, even if
1:16:23it's in your consistency or in the
1:16:26volume that you're outputting, these are
1:16:28areas of undeniable proof that actually
1:16:31matter. Which brings me to our next
1:16:33principle, which is to start before
1:16:35you're ready. Now, this basically is
1:16:37what it sounds like, to start before
1:16:38you're ready. It's to move forward even
1:16:40though you don't have all of the facts
1:16:41and you don't have all of the
1:16:42information, but it's understanding that
1:16:44momentum is what's going to create the
1:16:46refinement in the skill and the
1:16:48direction that you ultimately need. And
1:16:50it's also this concept that starting
1:16:52before you're ready means that you know
1:16:54that you are allowed to suck at the
1:16:55beginning. You may not be ready because
1:16:57maybe you don't know all the details
1:16:59about it. And it also may be because you
1:17:01don't know how to do it. And both are
1:17:02fine. And one of my favorite things
1:17:04about what Grace is doing right now is
1:17:05that she is documenting the messiness of
1:17:08this chapter, the uncertainty. When she
1:17:10left the Diary of a CEO, she didn't have
1:17:12a perfectly mapped out master plan. She
1:17:15didn't know exactly what her channel was
1:17:17going to become. She didn't even know
1:17:18really what project it was that she was
1:17:20chasing. And not only is she documenting
1:17:24it, but she's embracing it. And I think
1:17:25that is really important. Because when
1:17:27we think about chasing a dream, we
1:17:28assume that we have clarity. We assume
1:17:31that we need to understand what the
1:17:33dream is. We need the blueprint. We need
1:17:36the five-year plan. We need the exact
1:17:38outcome that we are looking for.
1:17:40Sometimes the dream is just a decision
1:17:42to build and that's enough to start. And
1:17:44you want to hear something wild? This
1:17:46video wouldn't have even been possible
1:17:47without this principle. I remember being
1:17:49on the phone with our producer Guy
1:17:50talking about Grace. I've been following
1:17:52Grace for years. Like truly.
1:17:55I am like a very big fan of Grace
1:17:57Andrews. And eventually that
1:17:58conversation like led to the, you know,
1:18:00our producer saying, "Okay, like why
1:18:01don't we reach out?" And I had this
1:18:03email drafted and we were going to send
1:18:05it. I literally backed out. I was like,
1:18:07"No, no, no, we're not ready. We're not
1:18:09ready. We're too small." I don't know
1:18:11what happened in our miscommunication,
1:18:13but our producer Guy, Guy, thank you so
1:18:15much. He sent it anyways. And then I get
1:18:17a text from him saying, "Grace Andrews
1:18:20responded. She'd love to meet." And I'm
1:18:21like, "Wait a minute. You sent the
1:18:23email?" The crazy thing is if it had
1:18:24been up to me, that email would have
1:18:26never been sent. Which makes me wonder
1:18:28how many dreams did I get in the way of
1:18:31simply because I waited to be ready.
1:18:33Which brings me to our last principle of
1:18:35mindset. Now, this mindset principle,
1:18:36I'm always going to say this, I cringe
1:18:38when I say it because it's such a cliche
1:18:40principle. But when we think about this
1:18:42principle, we usually think about having
1:18:43a winner's mindset, like an optimistic
1:18:45mindset, like a confident mindset,
1:18:47right? This is something that Grace
1:18:48clearly has. But even the most
1:18:50successful people like her, they still
1:18:52doubt themselves. In the interview,
1:18:54Grace talked about the moment that she
1:18:55was on the verge of leaving Diary of a
1:18:57CEO, and she asked herself a very honest
1:18:59question, "Can I do it again?" And
1:19:01perhaps it stemmed from the fact that
1:19:03she was wondering if what she
1:19:04accomplished was from the magic of that
1:19:06specific group of people in that exact
1:19:08time, and ultimately a very universal
1:19:10feeling of could she do it on her own?
1:19:12She clearly had the doubt, but her
1:19:13mindset shows us that
1:19:16she chose the dream over the doubt.
1:19:22And that's personally what I'm
1:19:23struggling with right now.
1:19:25At the time of filming this, our last
1:19:27video is currently sitting at 133,000
1:19:31views.
1:19:33And
1:19:35first and foremost, I just have to thank
1:19:37you guys.
1:19:38You guys that definitely was a um
1:19:42a dream come true.
1:19:44And the thing that I wasn't expecting is
1:19:46along the pure joy and excitement
1:19:48[music] was coupled with this other
1:19:50emotion of a lot of fear.
1:19:54And it was the fear of could we do it
1:19:55again?
1:19:57As like Grace literally said that
1:19:59question, like I felt like a pit in my
1:20:01stomach.
1:20:03Because [music] it was like the same
1:20:05question
1:20:07that I have
1:20:08honestly been [music] asking myself for
1:20:09the past like month.
1:20:12And the question is like, was it a
1:20:13fluke?
1:20:15I don't know, could we actually
1:20:18do that again?
1:20:20And then what happens if we don't do it
1:20:22again?
1:20:24But I think the thing I'm realizing is
1:20:26>> [music]
1:20:26>> failure and rejection don't really
1:20:28say much about you. How you respond to
1:20:30the failure and rejection says
1:20:31everything [music] about you.
1:20:33And I hope that if you're watching and
1:20:35you're in the depths of your dream and
1:20:37wondering, "Can I do this again?"
1:20:39Or can I even just [music] do it to
1:20:40begin with?
1:20:43Choose the damn dream over the doubt.
1:20:46And so,
1:20:48will we do it again?
1:20:51Well, by the time you [music] see this
1:20:52video, we will know the answer to that.
1:20:55But,
1:20:57with the same mindset that Grace had,
1:21:00whether we do or we don't, we will
1:21:02learn.
1:21:03We will pivot.
1:21:06We will
1:21:07be consistent.
1:21:10And more importantly,
1:21:12we will continue chasing
1:21:15the anatomy [music] of a dream.
1:21:18All right, guys.
1:21:21We will see you in the next one.

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