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Mark Twitchell Full Interrogation — Transcript

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0:00But,
0:01contacting the lawyer that still holds
0:03true, okay? Just so you're aware. Okay.
0:05If at any time we're talking you want to
0:06contact a lawyer, you can do so at any
0:08time. I'll take you to a phone.
0:10There's something else I want to tell
0:11you, Mark.
0:13And that's that
0:15there's absolutely no doubt in my mind
0:18that you're involved in the
0:19disappearance of John Altinger.
0:27No doubt in my mind at all, Mark. Why?
0:34As I said,
0:35Mark, there's no doubt in my mind that
0:37you're involved in this disappearance.
0:41I just want to get to the bottom of this
0:42because this is not going to go away.
0:47It's not going to leave you, Mark.
0:51I don't understand.
0:55I'm going to explain some of the reasons
0:57to you.
0:59But, you do understand cuz you know what
1:01I'm talking about.
1:04You're involved in this and
1:05unfortunately
1:08something got carried away.
1:11Something got carried away with this
1:12guy.
1:15I mean, talking to you here tonight, you
1:16seem like a decent guy.
1:19And I think that something happened that
1:20night that maybe you just didn't have
1:22total control of.
1:24And I'm here to get to the bottom of it.
1:27Because it's not going to go away.
1:32This is going to stay with you. And we
1:35need to clear this up here and now. We
1:36need to clear this up tonight.
1:42You need to tell me the truth about
1:43what's going on.
1:45What happened
1:47with this fellow?
1:56I mean, did
1:57this happen because of
1:59of the movie thing?
2:01Something that went too far?
2:11I have no idea what the hell's going on.
2:16You do have an idea. You have a very
2:18good idea, Mark, about what's going on.
2:20You know exactly what happened there
2:22that night.
2:26I mean, you haven't told us the truth.
2:34You haven't told us anything
2:37close to the truth.
2:41You do understand we've talked to Joss.
2:50We've got his side of the story.
2:53All I'm looking for is your side of the
2:54story.
2:55But, the truth.
2:59Not what you've been telling me.
3:02Cuz that what you've been telling me
3:04hasn't been the truth.
3:06Hasn't, Mark.
3:11This can't be. I don't
3:18What do you mean it can't be?
3:23I just don't understand.
3:29Well, what don't you understand?
3:33We have a fellow who's missing.
3:36We know he's been to your garage.
3:40We've talked to all the neighbors now.
3:44You know,
3:46the neighbors saw you changing the lock
3:51about a week, week and a half ago.
3:54Neighbors watch.
3:58They see all these things. Little things
4:00that you don't realize.
4:02Okay?
4:04We know the lock was changed
4:07long before the 15th.
4:09Yet, when you get there on the 15th,
4:12you tell me, "Oh, that's your lock on
4:14there on the 15th."
4:16It's not till you go back with the
4:17policeman
4:20last night
4:22that you notice
4:23or you say
4:24So, that's a lie. That's a lie you told
4:26me.
4:28When you gave your version of events to
4:29Detective Taber last night,
4:32your version of events was different
4:34than what you told me today.
4:37What you wrote down
4:39was different than what you told me in
4:40this room.
4:42What you told me in this room when I
4:43first came in
4:45was different than your final version of
4:47events.
4:49You changed your whole story.
4:53All kinds of different lies.
4:58Now, I know this isn't an easy thing to
4:59live with.
5:00Something went wrong there.
5:04Like I said, I don't think you're a bad
5:05guy. You seem like a decent guy. You got
5:08a wife. You got a small child.
5:10You're trying to do the best.
5:13I don't think You know, I don't know,
5:15but I don't think you're doing that well
5:16financially.
5:18I think it's a tough life what you're
5:19in. You're trying to do your best, but
5:21something went wrong.
5:24Maybe you were just trying to make a
5:25better movie. I don't know.
5:32But, something went wrong and you're
5:33involved.
5:37And this is not going to go away, Mark.
5:41And you know that. You're not a dumb
5:42guy.
5:45You know it's not going to go away.
5:53This is going to keep on eating at you
5:55and eat and
5:56I just feel like I'm in the [ __ ]
5:57Twilight Zone right now.
5:59And why do you feel you're in the
6:00Twilight Zone?
6:17We need to get to the truth about what
6:18happened with John Altinger.
6:24And I know you know that truth.
6:30You are definitely not a dumb man.
6:34You know very well
6:37that you don't buy a car that's worth
6:40over $10,000 from someone for $40.
6:44You know that.
6:45You know that you get a bill of sale.
6:47You deal with items on eBay. You sell
6:49items all the time.
6:52It's like going to a store and buying
6:53anything.
6:59That part of your story is just It's
7:01just lie after lie after lie.
7:04And it's time to end those lies, Mark.
7:15I mean, your your version about the gas,
7:19your first version to to Mike Taber,
7:21you're leaving.
7:22You're leaving the garage going to get
7:24gas.
7:26Then he approaches you. Now, in your
7:28version today, no, you got the gas
7:30before.
7:35Your reason for having gas doesn't even
7:37make sense.
7:42You're buying gas for a lawnmower you
7:43don't own.
7:45You're buying gas just to keep in your
7:46car.
7:48No, you're buying gas to get rid of
7:50things.
7:54You shake your head, but you know what
7:56I'm saying is true.
8:07Specifically,
8:09do you remember talking to the constable
8:11last night?
8:13Specifically, you talked to the
8:14constable last night. He specifically
8:17asked you three or four times,
8:20"Do you remember seeing a red car
8:25anytime around your garage, anything?"
8:29No. Officer, I don't remember anything
8:31about a red car.
8:35Yeah, now
8:36and you never mentioned that to
8:38Detective Taber.
8:41Not once do you mention a red car
8:45or buying a car off an individual you
8:47didn't know for $40
8:51while he's asking about the
8:53disappearance of a guy who's seen at
8:55your garage.
9:01And it's obvious why you didn't mention
9:02it because you had something to do with
9:03his disappearance.
9:13I mean, there's no doubt about that.
9:19I mean, you have You have a barrel in
9:21your garage.
9:24A barrel you say you buy for garbage.
9:27Everyone knows in the movie industry
9:29those are known as burn barrels.
9:34We got that off your own friends.
9:37They're the ones telling us this.
9:40Your coworkers.
9:49What happened to John, Mark?
9:57What did you do with them?
10:06Wrong tree.
10:08Wrong dream? No, tree.
10:11Wrong tree. Mhm. And what do you mean by
10:13that?
10:31What do you mean by that, Mark?
10:34I'm done.
10:36What do you mean you're done?
10:43I mean, I just I'm not talking anymore.
10:44This is ridiculous.
10:48Well, what is your explanation?
10:52You haven't answered any of the
10:53questions.
10:56If you didn't do anything wrong, why
10:58wouldn't you answer those questions?
11:01Do you know why,
11:02Mark? Both of you and I know the answer.
11:05Cuz you're involved.
11:09You have the license plates
11:13to his vehicle in your car. You have the
11:15keys to his vehicle in your car.
11:19And this guy's missing and you have his
11:21car.
11:34Like, you need to accept the fact,
11:36you're Mark, that your life is now
11:37changed.
11:43Cuz like I said before, this is never
11:45ever going to go away.
11:52I mean, I have to wonder what's going on
11:54in your life that
11:56gets you involved in something like
11:57this.
12:05You must either be having
12:07tough times at home or tough times
12:09financially or something.
12:24So, what's going to happen when these
12:25neighbors pick your picture out as a guy
12:27changing the locks in that garage
12:32after you told me you didn't know
12:33anything about those locks?
12:35What's going to happen then, Mark?
12:53What's going to happen with your wife
12:54and child, Mark?
13:01What are they going to do?
13:25What happened to John, Mark?
13:35Was this your plan or was it somebody
13:37else's?
13:42Somebody else put you up to this?
13:55Do you not have any answers, Mark?
13:59Why not?
14:07I'm telling you
14:09that you're involved in this
14:10disappearance and you sit there and say
14:11nothing.
14:15Shocks me.
14:20You do understand these things don't go
14:22away. Like, we
14:25This is going to stay with you the rest
14:26of your life.
14:29Do you understand that?
14:36Like, I look at you. I I see you sitting
14:38here. I've talked to you for several
14:39hours now.
14:41And I
14:43I just can't figure out the why.
14:47What What drove you to this? Is there
14:49something going on? Obviously, there's
14:51something going on behind the scenes
14:52that I don't know about.
15:00Cuz you seem like a decent guy that you
15:02know, I'd go have a beer with.
15:07That's the type of guy you come across
15:09as.
15:15Yet, you're involved over your head in
15:17this. Is anything that you're saying
15:19genuine or is this some sort of tactic?
15:24You got to get away from the acting
15:25part, Mark, and listen to what I'm
15:27saying.
15:28You have told me nothing but lies.
15:32An innocent man does not come in here
15:35and tell lies.
15:39That's genuine, Mark.
15:42Everything I'm telling you in here is
15:44genuine.
15:45So, get out of your field producer mode
15:48and the facade of thinking that
15:50everyone's an actor.
15:53Cuz this is real life.
15:58All right?
16:00Real life.
16:07If you were telling me the truth, you
16:09would have one story.
16:12One story that would flow from beginning
16:14to end and you could repeat that 100
16:17times
16:18with no changes in the story.
16:24Yours is so bad.
16:31How do you explain the neighbors?
16:35The neighbors see that car there before
16:38the 15th of October.
16:46Why would that car be at your garage
16:48before the 15th of October?
16:56You conveniently can't remember where
16:58you were on the 14th of October.
17:07Nothing convenient about it.
17:11It's just
17:14actual fact. Despite anything
17:18that's been going on, I really cannot
17:24You cannot remember.
17:28Remember what?
17:30About the 14th.
17:32So, you can't remember about the 14th.
17:35Why did you lie about the 15th?
17:38What is your explanation for providing
17:40me basically different versions of what
17:42happened on the 15th?
17:55Am I leaving church?
17:58Not yet.
18:01Am I free to go? Yep.
18:06And I will
18:07camp.
18:12We're seizing your car.
18:15So, you won't be getting it back.
18:18We'll be getting a search warrant to go
18:19through the car, forensic examination.
18:22Okay?
18:23Soon as we're done interviewing
18:25everybody else,
18:26you will uh
18:28we'll be coming back to charge you.
18:31It's just a matter of time.
18:35All right?
18:41Do you have any questions about anything
18:42now?
18:43Do you want to clear anything up now so
18:44I don't have to keep coming after you?
19:06Any questions about anything, Mark?
19:37You know pretty well everything's over
19:38for you.
19:49You can't worry about your what your
19:50wife and your family's going to think.
19:52Cuz this isn't going away. You have to
19:54get past that.
20:15Are you that cold a person, Mark, that
20:17you can live with this the rest of your
20:19life?
20:22Doesn't bother you at all?
20:23What does that mean?
20:26You're involved in this disappearance of
20:27this guy.
20:29But will live with it, what do you mean?
20:31What you did to him.
20:35You can live with that?
20:37That's what I mean. You can live with
20:38that, what's happened to him?
20:42I mean, only you know what's happened to
20:43him.
20:44I'll find that out eventually.
20:47It's going to take me a little time. I
20:48just got involved in this case today.
20:50But it's so obvious you're involved,
20:52Mark. It's
20:56Like you're not a very good actor.
20:58And you're in the business.
21:01Who said I was an actor?
21:03Pretty sure.
21:05You've seen actors.
21:08You're not good at it at all.
21:13You're a very, very poor liar.
21:24I mean, how do you go home at night?
21:27Live with yourself over what you've done
21:28to this guy.
21:29How do you explain that to your wife?
21:32Your child's only 8 months, so you don't
21:33have to explain it to her. She won't
21:35even know what's going on.
21:44I think it's going to eat at you.
21:46If you're a normal person, it's going to
21:47eat at you. If you're that cold and
21:49callous, which I don't
21:51You don't strike me as that type of
21:52person.
21:55If something went wrong in that garage
21:56that day, then you need to tell me that.
21:59If something went wrong, it was out of
22:01your control, this is your chance to
22:02tell it.
22:05You know, this is your chance to give
22:07your
22:07perspective.
22:09Yeah, something went wrong.
22:12Things got out of control.
22:15Something happened there that I didn't
22:16want to happen. This is your chance.
22:29You know, I don't know much about this
22:30John, but I'm slowly finding out things.
22:37If something went wrong and he came over
22:39to that garage when you were there,
22:42this is your chance to tell me.
22:51I mean, did you guys get into an
22:52argument over something? I don't know
22:54what.
22:55Things got carried away.
22:59So be it, we can deal with that.
23:05But you have to let me know that.
23:17You know, I don't know if he came over
23:18there with somebody else.
23:21He's getting stupid or was trying to
23:23pull stuff on you. I don't know.
23:30I know this guy's a bit of a weirdo.
23:34I know he's into different things that
23:37the average person isn't into.
23:43And then maybe he tried something. I
23:45don't know.
23:48I don't know exactly what happened. What
23:50I do know
23:52is that you're involved.
23:56And you know that.
23:57It's obvious. It's obvious by holding it
24:02And like I said, it's not going away.
24:04It's just starting to build.
24:06What is that we said?
24:12Well, you understand it, but
24:16you don't have an explanation for it.
24:21Why isn't Mark you don't have an
24:22explanation?
24:29Fear.
24:31Pardon me?
24:37I didn't hear you.
24:40I mean, I know it's tough.
24:43You know,
24:44I don't know much about your life, but
24:54I don't know, was this something that
24:55you tried to avoid and you just
24:56couldn't?
24:58What do you mean?
24:59Well, I don't know. Did he try something
25:00in there?
25:07Did he try something and you're just
25:08defending yourself? I don't know.
25:12You were the one that was there.
25:19So what did you call that thing you
25:20made?
25:22Pardon me? It's a very weird comment you
25:24made. Which comment is that? The battle.
25:49Which comment was that?
26:09I'm not trying to be the bad guy here,
26:11Mark.
26:14Can't help it feel like that's a
26:18tactic. I just feel like everything is a
26:20tactic with you guys.
26:21Why do you think that?
26:23And you know what I told you in this
26:25room is the truth. So how do you how do
26:26you say that that's a tactic?
26:27I can't
26:28system.
26:32You know, we're not sitting in a movie,
26:33but it's common sense.
26:36This is real life stuff. You got to get
26:38away from the movies. Yeah, I know.
26:41That's the problem here. All I'm here
26:43for is get the truth.
26:46That's my job.
26:47There's two sides to every story.
26:51I know I know why
26:54John went to the garage.
26:57I know a little bit about his background
26:59and what he's into.
27:00Not very pretty. What does that mean?
27:03Well, I'm not going to go into all that
27:04cuz that's that's not the stuff that you
27:06need to know.
27:09But let's just say he's got some
27:10skeletons in his closet.
27:18And I know that he could have done
27:19something there to to provoke things.
27:22To cause trouble.
27:29And if he did and something happened
27:31because of his provoking or provocation
27:34there,
27:36then what I'm telling you is this is
27:37your chance to get it out.
27:44Something happened there between the two
27:45of you.
27:53Then you need to let me know now.
28:15Was it just the two of you in the garage
28:16or did he come with someone else?
28:30Mark.
28:31I
28:32uh um
28:36I need some time.
28:40I need to be able to sleep.
28:45This isn't going to go away while you
28:46sleep, Mark. I know.
28:50That's the problem.
28:55Something happened there.
28:58Both you and I know it.
29:06And time isn't going to make it go away.
29:16It's time for you to step up to the
29:18plate.
29:20Tell me what happened to John.
29:24Tell me where he is.
29:32So we can do the decent thing and
29:38Not only for him, but for his family.
29:45And for your own well-being.
29:47You're not going to be able to live with
29:48yourself with this for the rest of your
29:50life.
29:53You'd be surprised what you can live
29:54with.
29:56I hated you and I hated you.
29:59It's going to affect your family because
30:00it's affecting you.
30:07What's going to happen with your
30:08daughter?
30:11I know that's weighing on your mind.
30:15I know it's weighing on your mind about
30:16your life.
30:21How would you describe your marriage?
30:26Is it good?
30:34Everything was going fantastic.
30:38Everything was until what?
30:39me a message.
30:46She was worried yesterday
30:49and couldn't sleep at all. And even
30:51tonight, she had to take a
30:56Unisom to try and get to sleep. And then
31:00when I didn't come home, she
31:04started calling again.
31:06Well, she's worried about you.
31:19But this isn't a game.
31:50You know, I had a family, a relative of
31:52mine
31:53was murdered
31:56back in 1997 Whitehorse, Yukon.
31:59My wife's sister
32:01was murdered
32:03by her husband.
32:04Family thing.
32:06Not like this.
32:08Are you serious? Serious. It was
32:10actually made national news. It was a
32:12big thing about the the defense of
32:15provocation.
32:18His name was Ralph Classen. That was my
32:20brother-in-law at the time.
32:23And he strangled her. He strangled his
32:26wife, which is my wife's sister,
32:28in bed.
32:30They were separated.
32:33Come home and
32:34thought she was fooling around. He was
32:36out to lunch. There was no fooling
32:37around going on. Not at all.
32:41And he strangled her with his hands.
32:45So hard that he actually sprained his
32:47two thumbs.
32:51Well, that was he leaves a note in the
32:53house saying
32:56that he couldn't live with himself and
32:59he was going to end his own life.
33:02So, I don't know if you're ever been to
33:03Whitehorse, but he drove up I
33:05I wasn't up there myself. My wife went
33:07up for the trial with her sisters, but
33:11the uh
33:13he drives up on a hill
33:15in his uh
33:16little Datsun B210 truck.
33:19And his plan was they found out this
33:22later from talking to him. That's how we
33:23know. But his plan was to
33:26drive head-on into one of the iron ore
33:28trucks that work at the mines up there.
33:31So, he waited and waited and he said,
33:33this is what he told them afterwards
33:34later.
33:35And uh
33:38no iron ore truck came along. So, a
33:40propane tanker that was coming down the
33:41highway.
33:42So, he drives down the hill, he smashes
33:44head-on propane tanker. And just before
33:46he hits it, he ducks.
33:48And if you can believe it, he ends up
33:49with a broken toe. That was his whole
33:52injuries from this accident. The truck
33:54driver ends up
33:56breaking his back so bad that he can't
33:58work anymore. He's not crippled, but he
34:00can't work anymore. Never ends up
34:02working again, I guess.
34:04And they take my brother-in-law to the
34:05hospital. And at the hospital, he tells
34:08the nurse
34:09he did something to his wife.
34:13So, they uh send them out to his over
34:15there and they find her in bed.
34:18And then they come back
34:20and
34:23they end up, of course, charging him
34:25charging him with second-degree murder.
34:28He got convicted of manslaughter.
34:30And his defense was provocation that he
34:32was provoked into it.
34:37That's kind of my point here is that
34:39he's saying he's provoked.
34:41That's his wife. And there was no pro-
34:43provocation at all. It was a joke joke
34:46defense in my mind. My wife sat through
34:482 weeks of the trial with her sisters up
34:50there
34:51and couldn't believe it. Absolutely
34:52devastated the family.
34:55And he got a whole 5 years in jail.
34:58That's what he got.
35:01He served, I think, 2 and 1/2 total.
35:03Never did find out what happened to him.
35:05Out at uh William Head Penitentiary in
35:08BC, which is on Vancouver Island.
35:11[ __ ] golf course on them. They've got
35:13a par three golf course and they live in
35:15like condos.
35:18System's a joke.
35:21Wait, who is in condos?
35:23The prisoners at William Head
35:25Penitentiary. They live in like condo
35:27complexes. Not even cells.
35:29So,
35:30but the point is is that
35:32he raised the defense of provocation.
35:35And if that's what's happened in this
35:37case, then that's what I'm telling you.
35:39You need to tell me.
35:42If you were provoked some way,
35:45whether it was some sort of
35:47incident that arose,
35:52then now's the time.
35:56The only thing I give my brother-in-law
35:57credit for was he did step up to the
35:59plate.
36:01And he did tell them what happened.
36:14And he something obviously went on
36:15between the two of you.
36:17Or
36:18something went on between you and John.
36:32I don't think it happened on the 15th.
36:36It happened before that.
37:12It's not going to be easy living with
37:13this, Mark.
37:16It's not going to be easy for anybody.
37:19Wasn't easy for us.
37:22Family was devastated.
37:26It's going to happen.
37:28Those are facts.
37:30Those are things you can't change. Can't
37:33change now that this has happened. But
37:34we also can't go back.
37:36We can't go back and take that day back
37:38that all this happened.
37:47But we can do the right thing.
38:00And the right thing is telling me the
38:01truth about what happened that night.
38:06What happened between the two of you.
38:24Something went wrong.
38:36What went wrong that day, Mark?
39:13This guy come over there uninvited?
39:19What happened?
39:43Tell me something, Mark. Do you really
39:45think this is going to go away?
39:53You don't You don't You don't think that
39:54because you're not a stupid guy.
40:02So, what can we do to get to the bottom
40:03of this, Mark?
40:31Was this an accident?
40:50How did it happen, Mark?
41:16Kind of think this was happened spur of
41:18the moment.
41:21Cuz you didn't really do a lot of
41:23thinking about afterwards.
41:26Which tells me it's happened
41:31as spur of the moment or by accident.
41:33Something like that.
41:42Tells me you didn't want to do it on
41:43purpose.
41:53If that's the case, Mark, this is the
41:54time to tell me.
41:57I'm supposed to what other time?
42:00I'm just going to
42:01There's not going to be another time.
42:03I'm just telling you that I keep telling
42:05you you know what you agreed to that
42:07it's not going to go away.
42:16And you know it's not going to go away,
42:18Mark.
42:20What time did you wake up today?
42:23Early.
42:25Well, I mean not today, I guess
42:27yesterday.
42:28Early.
42:30Is the adrenaline keeping you going? No.
42:34I'm tired, too. I feel like that's all
42:36that I'm on right now.
42:39So, let's get to the truth.
42:42And then we can end this.
42:46The problem is you don't want to tell me
42:47the truth.
42:49Why don't you want to tell me the truth?
42:59Can you answer that question, Mark?
43:04Why can't you give me your version of
43:06events that night?
43:12Cuz I'm scared.
43:14And then you got I I always have this
43:16instinct to want to be able to try to
43:18hold on to
43:27I don't even know.
43:30I can imagine you're scared, but that's
43:31a perfectly natural
43:33feeling at this time.
43:41But things happened there,
43:43Mark, between you and John.
44:03And I don't think he can speak for
44:04himself anymore.
44:07You're the only one that can tell us
44:08what happened that night.
44:29What's going through your mind right
44:30now, Mark?
44:35I'm mostly nothing. Anything I try to
44:37push out is like
44:43What's it like? It's like skating
44:45uphill.
44:50This This tired trying to formulate
44:52thought anymore.
45:05I don't think you need to formulate
45:06thought, Mark. I think you need to
45:07formulate is the truth.
45:11There's two sides to every story. Yeah,
45:13but stories come with questions and more
45:16answers and more stories.
45:21Well, stories come with facts and truth.
45:23There won't be many questions.
45:41People make mistakes.
45:44Happens every day.
45:54Some mistakes are bigger than others.
45:56But life goes on.
45:58And we deal with those mistakes.
46:07Well,
46:13I think my marriage is over, so I don't
46:14really have to worry about protecting
46:15her anymore.
46:24Your daughter will be taken care of.
46:29Yeah.
46:31Your wife's here. Your mother, father.
46:38Parents named the funeral they want.
46:40Yeah.
46:43She'll be looked after.
47:06I can see this is eating you up.
47:19Something went wrong there, Mark.
47:22Tell me what went wrong.
48:23You know deep down, Mark, that
48:25everything I've told you in this room
48:28has been a fact, has been the truth.
48:31I haven't tried to baffle you with
48:32[ __ ] on anything.
48:40Again, you know what? I mean, you say
48:41that, but
48:43part of me is always going to wonder.
48:50That's cuz you watch too much TV.
48:54We all do, I guess. Well, I
48:56I don't think I understand the
48:57difference.
49:00Bottom line though is I'm just here to
49:02get the truth.
49:04And the truth isn't always pleasant. I
49:05know that.
49:25I mean, this wasn't somebody you knew.
49:27You weren't
49:28close to this fellow.
49:32You didn't know what he was like.
49:38Not a family member.
49:55I just don't know what set set it off.
49:59Cuz your demeanor is
50:02appears to be so calm.
50:09It's so irrational.
50:19Like what set it off that night to set
50:20these things in motion?
50:58What happened between you and John Mark?
51:12Uh I can't even get there right now.
51:14Right now I'm thinking about
51:19immediate needs. Like
51:22What are those immediate Contact lenses
51:24are going to burn a hole in my head in a
51:25couple of hours. Um
51:36I don't know
51:37I want to get to the finish line, but at
51:39the same time
51:42I think uh
51:43I think we should get to the finish
51:44line. Consulting with the lawyers is
51:46really important.
51:48You can do that at any time, you know.
52:04Told you that right from the start.
52:06Mhm.
52:17You know exactly why you're here.
52:23It's John's gone missing.
52:32The reason you're sitting there.
52:37You're really the guy that made him go
52:38missing.
52:56I'm just trying to find out the why
52:58behind
53:00why this happened. What
53:02what turned it to make you
53:06do something like this.
53:10There's obviously going to be other
53:11factors involved.
53:31How long have you been married, Mark?
53:51Almost 2 years.
53:55Statistically.
53:57How long were you married the first
53:59time?
54:00Four.
54:04What's that have to do with it? It's
54:05statistic.
54:09Didn't expect that.
54:12Well
54:14I think you're already worse
54:15statistically you were divorced the
54:16first time.
54:19Right?
54:20Well, some things you just got to do
54:22because you realize that
54:24your ultimate decision leads to what's
54:26going to end up in your long-term
54:27happiness and you can't just
54:30feel obligated to how other people are
54:32going to think about it. Don't you think
54:34that applies to
54:40long-term happiness?
54:43I think it applies.
54:49Yeah, it seems like the end of the world
54:51now.
54:57What about the other person?
55:01I think we are. Let's not get really
55:03deep into philosophy, so I won't go
55:04there. Um
55:06Yeah, I'm not a big philosopher by any
55:07means.
55:11I work more on facts and truth.
55:31And I know I'm not dealing with a dumb
55:32individual here.
55:41But something went wrong there.
55:51And you can tell that in
56:37It's not easy, Mark, I know.
56:39How does your life go on if
56:41if we don't clear this up?
56:46How do you ever
56:48begin to rebuild it again?
57:10Do you think something like that's even
57:11possible?
57:13Of course it is.
57:14Happens all the time.
57:16I see it all the time. I used to work at
57:18Edmonton Max.
57:19I was liaison guy up there.
57:22So I do all the investigations out of
57:24Edmonton Institution.
57:27That was all the hardcore
57:30convicts. Guys who were in there for
57:33way worse than this. Like I'm talking
57:35guys who've done mass murders,
57:38multiple killings,
57:41killing family members,
57:44planned executions.
57:48They accepted their punishment. They do
57:50their time.
57:55But those guys they're different breed.
57:56They're not you. Those guys
58:00very very few. Like I can't I can't even
58:03think of one at the Max. Maybe at other
58:05institutions.
58:07They're the hardcore of the hardcore.
58:09They're the ones that have no remorse.
58:11They don't care.
58:12Mhm.
58:13It's like they're
58:15they're missing something. I don't know
58:16if they were born with something missing
58:18or what, but they don't have that
58:20remorse cycle like the remorse syndrome.
58:22They don't have it. They don't have a
58:23conscience.
58:28They don't care about anybody.
58:34To them
58:36killing somebody means nothing.
58:42And those are the worst of the worst.
58:44Those are the ones you deal with out
58:45there all the time.
58:48That's not you.
58:50You're not that type of person.
58:52Talked to you long enough in here the
58:53last several hours to know that.
59:00Those guys show no emotion over
59:02anything.
59:04They're cold.
59:06That's not you.
59:10Everything's running through your head
59:11right now.
59:13And rightly so.
59:19It's not an easy thing. I know you'd
59:20love to go back and
59:22take back that day, but you can't.
59:28You know, you can't do that.
59:29What's done is done.
59:36But you can move on from here. Yeah,
59:37it's not easy.
59:39Of course not.
59:41It's not going to be easy.
59:43But it's also not the end. It's not the
59:45end of your life.
59:51It's not the end of of your family's
59:53life.
1:00:01I'm sure you're still going to want to
1:00:02see your daughter one day.
1:00:14You made a mistake.
1:00:30In order to get past that, I need you to
1:00:32explain to me what happened.
1:00:35What happened to make you make that
1:00:37mistake?
1:00:39What started this all off?
1:01:20Your car breaking had nothing to do with
1:01:21this.
1:01:25I don't believe your car was even broken
1:01:27into.
1:01:36You realize you made a mistake.
1:01:38Things got carried away.
1:01:45Something happened to John.
1:01:51And you panicked.
1:01:59You didn't know what to do, and then you
1:02:00made up a story.
1:02:22The narrative of this is you could
1:02:24probably even make a movie out of this
1:02:25one day.
1:02:27There's an irony.
1:02:45That's probably never been done.
1:02:50Something like this happens, you write a
1:02:51script and make a movie.
1:02:53It's probably never been done.
1:03:28But things aren't going to change for
1:03:29you now.
1:03:39I think this has been eating at you
1:03:40since it happened.
1:03:48It's probably been wreaking havoc on
1:03:50your home life, too.
1:03:56If it had anything to do with it, it's
1:03:57like living with constant apprehension.
1:04:02I can't say that, you know.
1:04:08I just don't feel better anymore.
1:04:17Um this is your chance to get rid of
1:04:19that feeling.
1:04:21All these things are overwhelming to
1:04:23take.
1:04:24I'm sure it does.
1:04:27I'm sure it does.
1:04:29Okay, what's the steps
1:04:32in
1:04:36getting a lawyer cuz I don't have one?
1:04:38I'll just take you out of this room to a
1:04:40phone and you can call.
1:04:42Is it like
1:04:44legal aid? I mean
1:04:46There's phone numbers there. There's a
1:04:47phone book. Take you to a phone and you
1:04:49can call.
1:04:51There's phone books there. There's a
1:04:53legal aid number on the wall.
1:04:56Mhm.
1:04:57They'll provide the aid legal advice you
1:04:59want.
1:05:02Take you out of there anytime.
1:05:04If you want to call any specific lawyer
1:05:06you know, it's way down the old pages
1:05:08there.
1:05:27That apprehension you're feeling, how
1:05:28long have you been feeling that?
1:05:35Any longer than 2 minutes is too long.
1:05:38Uh
1:05:41Okay,
1:05:42let's see.
1:05:43Has it been going on since this
1:05:45happened?
1:05:49Was it going on before?
1:06:01Would you feel more comfortable writing
1:06:02down
1:06:03what happened?
1:06:10Uh
1:06:11I don't know.
1:06:12Maybe.
1:06:14Maybe not.
1:06:17I don't know.
1:06:20Maybe you can.
1:06:23Write down what happened that night if
1:06:25you want.
1:06:45Don't you think it's right,
1:06:47the moral thing to do to get this guy
1:06:49back to his family?
1:06:59If that's what I told you.
1:07:05It's friends who called us.
1:07:19If there are other stressors going on in
1:07:21your life at the time, that's
1:07:23This is what you need to tell me now.
1:07:26What other things are going on, Mark?
1:07:27Wouldn't that really be irrelevant,
1:07:29though? No, I don't think it would be
1:07:31very irrelevant.
1:07:32What do you think?
1:07:38Whether it be financial, at home,
1:07:39marriage, health.
1:07:43I don't know.
1:07:45A lot of things go on behind closed
1:07:46doors.
1:07:52Every one of us has three lives.
1:07:56We have our work life, where we behave
1:07:57one way at work.
1:08:00We have our home life, where we behave a
1:08:01certain way at home.
1:08:03And we have our secret life.
1:08:06And I guarantee every single person on
1:08:08this planet has a secret life.
1:08:13Things they do that maybe they don't
1:08:15want other people to know. They could be
1:08:16good or bad. They don't always have to
1:08:17be
1:08:18good. They don't always have to be bad.
1:08:28Something going on there.
1:08:31One of your lives.
1:08:32I think something was going on in all
1:08:34three of your lives that led to this.
1:08:51You mentioned earlier your marriage is
1:08:53over. Why did you say that?
1:09:09It's complicated.
1:09:12It's actually thinking about calling a
1:09:13lawyer. It's just so really complicated
1:09:15to think it. Yeah, we're just to go
1:09:17through that.
1:09:19Uh
1:09:21I wouldn't mind listening.
1:09:37What's been going on in your marriage to
1:09:38make you say that?
1:09:46It was a phone call.
1:09:49I think she already called
1:09:51some legal place.
1:09:55Figure out what that is first and then
1:09:57if if that's the case, I'll just call
1:09:58them instead of going through a phone
1:09:59book.
1:10:12You're calling your wife? Mhm.
1:10:14You want me to leave you while you talk
1:10:15to her?
1:10:17Sure. Okay.
1:10:25I'm going to come back in a few minutes.
1:10:26Uh I think she's with her that is
1:10:28sleeping.
1:10:31Okay.
1:10:42What do you think is going to happen to
1:10:43you?
1:10:46At this point, I don't know.
1:11:03Do you know the difference between them?
1:11:06Two types of murder?
1:11:09First degree, second degree,
1:11:10manslaughter.
1:11:20Is it intent?
1:11:23Yeah, basically. First degree is
1:11:26planning it.
1:11:28Second degree is
1:11:33is basically not planning it.
1:11:36Manslaughter is spur of the moment, like
1:11:38a bar fight or something.
1:11:41Someone punches someone and they get
1:11:42angry.
1:11:44Something like that.
1:11:49Which category would you fall into?
1:12:03What's the category for suicidal?
1:12:07Why are you suicidal?
1:12:25Cuz what's the point? I mean
1:12:33if everything that I've been working for
1:12:34is just suddenly going to end.
1:12:47But you know that's going to happen.
1:12:52There's no way to to sugarcoat that.
1:12:55It's suicidal.
1:12:56But then
1:12:57What does that give you any reason to
1:12:58take your own life?
1:13:17Is that any reason to leave your
1:13:18daughter without a father?
1:13:29Regardless of whether you're with or
1:13:31beside her or living in the same house,
1:13:32you're still her father.
1:13:42And of course it isn't the best of
1:13:43circumstances, but
1:13:46you're not going to be away from her
1:13:47forever.
1:13:53There will come a time when you'll be
1:13:55back to see her.
1:13:59But you won't be back to see her if you
1:14:00took your own life.
1:14:07Then you'd never be in her life. She'd
1:14:09never know the real you.
1:14:15And the real you is not this person
1:14:17that did this
1:14:19to John.
1:14:21You know that.
1:14:28This is something that happened because
1:14:29you weren't thinking straight.
1:14:35And I give it one day
1:14:46He must have grabbed me
1:14:48and we started struggling. Oh, and I'm
1:14:51guessing
1:14:52during this, that's when I'm like, okay,
1:14:54I got to try to fight. And that's
1:14:56something I missed or actually I tried
1:14:57punching him too, but I was so weak. And
1:14:59I'm I remember seeing trying to punch
1:15:01him.
1:15:02And I know I can't hit his mask cuz I
1:15:04was going to hurt my hands. So I tried
1:15:05to punch him in his chest. And I'm
1:15:07thinking, man, why am I so weak and my
1:15:09punches aren't
1:15:11I feel like I'm not doing anything and
1:15:13it's like my punches are so weak. And
1:15:15then uh
1:15:16so I realized, okay, I'm
1:15:17punching him is not going to do
1:15:18anything. He's way bigger than me and I
1:15:20I'm not
1:15:21can't do anything. So then I started I
1:15:23trying to kick him in the
1:15:26But I tried a few times doing that. Did
1:15:27you kick him? No. Did you hit him? No.
1:15:30Couldn't. Did he hit you? No. What about
1:15:32kick you? Uh he tried, but he
1:15:35I I swerved as well.
1:15:37So I I guess this is an all out intense
1:15:39battle or is it like
1:15:41No, that's the thing is like
1:15:43this is the whole thing. This is what
1:15:45I'm thinking.
1:15:46While I'm doing this, this guy
1:15:48he had
1:15:50if he was more professional
1:15:52he could have
1:15:54killed me right away. Like right when I
1:15:57walked in, I didn't see him. He could
1:15:59have hit me over the head with a
1:16:01a a bat, a
1:16:03a baton or anything. He could have got
1:16:05knocked me unconscious right away. And I
1:16:07I don't know why he did that. His whole
1:16:09plan was
1:16:11to use this taser thing on me first. And
1:16:13that was stupid on his part. But he had
1:16:16many chances to kill me. He never did.
1:16:18So he had a That's what I thought
1:16:20afterward all this happened. He had a
1:16:22bigger plan for me. I thought he maybe
1:16:24he was going to handcuff me and take me
1:16:25somewhere and do something.
1:16:27So you're now So you're now
1:16:31trying to punch him, you feel weak,
1:16:33you're trying to kick him, you're not
1:16:34connecting.
1:16:35when he goes, well, since you're not
1:16:37cooperating, this is the way it has to
1:16:38be now. And then he starts punching me
1:16:40in my left side of my face.
1:16:43And for some reason, again
1:16:45it would have been more effective for
1:16:47him to punch me in the nose, the eyes,
1:16:50you know, something cuz if he had
1:16:52punched me in the nose, I would have
1:16:52been down, right? But he's punching the
1:16:54side of my head and trying to get my
1:16:55temple or knock me unconscious for some
1:16:57reason. I'm not sure, but
1:16:58about the struggle. Tell me about the
1:16:59struggle with the gun.
1:17:03See, now this is for This is weird
1:17:05because
1:17:06I'm facing this way, he pulls the gun
1:17:08out again.
1:17:10And for some I think cuz I
1:17:14I grabbed the gun, somehow we
1:17:16maneuvered, we were um
1:17:18struggling again. And I'm trying to
1:17:20break the gun, right? So we're
1:17:21struggling and somehow I ended up this
1:17:23way again.
1:17:24Struggling with this gun.
1:17:26And he's here back at the door, okay? So
1:17:29because I just remember the door being
1:17:30there. And then I just try and
1:17:32break this gun cuz this is
1:17:35I know it's plastic and I know if I
1:17:37What's he doing?
1:17:38He's yelling at me cuz he doesn't want
1:17:40me touching his gun. And so then uh
1:17:44I wouldn't let go, obviously. But and I
1:17:46had a hold of his arm his other arm just
1:17:49in case he tried to punch me in the leg,
1:17:51but he never did.
1:17:53And so we're just struggling. I'm just
1:17:55You You could tell
1:17:57it's just weird that because he if he
1:17:59was a real gun, he would have fired it
1:18:01or whatnot. He never did. He had nothing
1:18:03and he didn't
1:18:05he he never
1:18:08just wasn't professional. It was just
1:18:10like it was maybe his first time. That's
1:18:12how I thought of it.

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