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Mario Innecco: The Monetary Reset Has Started, Gold 'Flows East' & Financial Repression | Old Gold — Transcript

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0:00All right. Welcome to this week's
0:02episode of Old Gold.
0:04Uh today we have a very special guest, a
0:06good friend of mine. I'm sure you all
0:08recognize him.
0:09Um before we get into that,
0:11uh I do want to remind everybody that we
0:13do have a couple of rounds open. Uh
0:15Chancery $3 round is still open. The
0:17Pilar 30 cent round is open. The links
0:19are down below.
0:21Um in the last episode, we mentioned our
0:25uh
0:26our current uh new seed round of a
0:28tungsten project that we have going on
0:30in Europe. Uh my email address is down
0:33below. So if a European tungsten project
0:36is something that interests you, you can
0:38hit me up and I'll make sure to get you
0:40uh all the info on that.
0:42All right. Um on to bigger and better
0:44things. At least for today, my good
0:46friend Mario Neco, you guys all know him
0:48as Maneco64 uh on his YouTube channel,
0:51is with me today.
0:53Um
0:54I think everybody that watches this
0:56channel is probably very aware that
0:57Mario and I have done a lot of traveling
0:59together in the last year. So usually we
1:01have these kinds of conversations over a
1:04cold beer in a random corner of the
1:05world, but it's always nice to have it
1:08on camera uh so that you guys can kind
1:10of take part in it as well. So we
1:12invited Mario to come back on and I
1:14always love to have my friend on the
1:16show so we can have a bit of banter
1:18about uh what's going on in the world.
1:20So welcome again, Mario.
1:22>> Oh, thank you and uh nice to uh be
1:25speaking with you again.
1:27>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh when we're not traveling,
1:29the only time we ever really get to
1:31chat is on uh on WhatsApp. And uh you
1:34and I are both very busy, so it's it's
1:36not very often, is it?
1:37>> Yeah. No. That's true. That's true. And
1:40uh I guess we've been to Ethiopia, South
1:43Korea, and Brazil.
1:45>> Yeah.
1:46>> Yeah.
1:47>> Yeah. And they've all been really good
1:49trips. We've uh
1:51we've had some really good conversations
1:53uh
1:53>> Yeah.
1:54>> during those times and some some really
1:55interesting times.
1:57Um
1:58all right. So [clears throat] let's get
2:00into it. I think people probably know
2:02already
2:02some of the subjects we're going to talk about, but,
2:04um, I wanted to to kind of dive in. I
2:08know, um,
2:09you've had some really good episodes
2:11recently. Uh, you and Peter Zeihan were
2:14discussing kind of the breakdown of the
2:16post World War II order.
2:19Um,
2:20what do you think
2:22the most important development
2:24is that tells us that we're entering a
2:28different monetary era?
2:30>> Oh, well, I think one of the big
2:33indicators is that a lot of the gold is
2:35flowing
2:36from west to east.
2:39Uh, and it's been happening Well, it's
2:41been happening for for a while now, over
2:44a decade, but it really accelerated in
2:472022
2:49uh, when the West sanctioned Russia and
2:53froze its reserves. So, the rest of the
2:56world suddenly
2:58realized it's not safe to keep our
3:00capital, our money in the West. So,
3:04they're liquidating government bonds and
3:07other
3:10safe haven assets
3:12and they're buying gold and even silver
3:14and taking it back
3:16back home.
3:18I think that's a big indicator. The
3:19other one, and it's I guess it's related
3:22to that, is that as foreigners
3:25start keep selling government bonds, the
3:29their
3:30their yields keep rising and
3:34and our governments keep spending more
3:36and more.
3:38The cost of spending becomes higher
3:41because to borrow becomes more difficult
3:44because they have to attract foreigners
3:46and foreigners don't really want to buy
3:49their bonds.
3:50And so, the deficits keep rising and and
3:52the debt that increases the debt growth.
3:56And we've seen that in the US. I spoke
4:00recently
4:01about how the US national debt is going
4:05up like 500 billion in just
4:1070 days or so.
4:12And it took 205 years to get to the
4:14first trillion
4:16from 1776 to 1981.
4:20And it's we're going to be
4:22yeah, in a year's time, Eric, we're
4:24going to be at 43.3 trillion. So it's
4:27it's getting really silly
4:29and I don't see any way out of it and
4:34except
4:36well, as an individual, you need to have
4:38something more tangible than just
4:42fiat dollars or or treasuries or gilts
4:46or
4:47any fiat currency really.
4:49And by that, of course, I mean gold and
4:51silver.
4:52>> Sure.
4:54Yeah, it's interesting. We we happen to
4:56be living in very interesting times.
5:00Throughout the history of governments
5:02and kings,
5:04especially
5:06sort of I guess in modern history,
5:08governments never they never pay their
5:10debt. They just default. And usually
5:12when the defaults happen,
5:14they create some kind of a war to blame
5:16the defaults on. So we can see that that
5:19is the cycle that is repeating right
5:20now.
5:21So
5:23you know, a couple of years ago, I kept
5:25kind of telling people
5:27we're definitely we're headed to war.
5:29People said, oh, no, no, that'll never
5:31happen, World War III.
5:32Well, now we're here and people say, you
5:35know what, there might be something
5:36[laughter] to that thing that you said.
5:38And I said, well, it's
5:39I'm not you know, I'm not any kind of
5:41oracle
5:42for sure. I'm just an average guy, but
5:45I am a student of history.
5:48And I've been following Martin Armstrong
5:49for quite a long time and he's obviously
5:53an encyclopedia of history.
5:56So you know, I am kind of aware of the
5:58cycle of everything that's happening and
6:03so it's almost inevitable.
6:05As Martin says, it doesn't matter how
6:07much we advance our civilization, human
6:11nature doesn't change. And so that's
6:13kind of what leads us to repeat these
6:15cycles over and over.
6:16Um, you and I both talk about, you know,
6:19monetary reset. Um, obviously there's
6:22going to come a point where
6:24that is inevitable. What do you think a
6:27monetary reset actually looks like for
6:31ordinary people?
6:32>> Uh, it's a lose losing proposition
6:35basically.
6:37As you said, governments, they always
6:41default on their debt and if they can't
6:44pay it off, they'll take it to war.
6:46The other thing they do
6:48is that
6:50they'll
6:51institute a policy that they've already
6:54been instituting since
6:56after COVID for the last five, six
6:59years, and that's financial repression.
7:02I mean the Federal Reserve,
7:04the the average CPI rate since 2021, or
7:09almost six years now, is approaching 5%.
7:14And [clears throat] that's with a
7:15measurement that doesn't really
7:18reflect how
7:20how fast prices are rising. It's
7:23probably more like six, seven.
7:26And and you only get like 3 4%, 5% at
7:29the most for putting your money in the
7:31bank or on deposit.
7:34So that that's how they get you. And
7:36also
7:37people who depend on
7:39on the government for
7:41their social security, Medicaid,
7:44Medicare, people who even work in the
7:47private sector sector
7:49and
7:51they're they're getting the pay rise
7:54that's related to the CPI.
7:56So that that's how they get you, or
7:58maybe even lower, while
8:01the currency is getting debased by 7 or
8:038 %. I would say even 10 %. If you go
8:07back to 1971.
8:09Gold has been going up on average 10 to
8:1211% every year on average.
8:16So how that's how they get the average
8:18person and the other thing I would add
8:21Eric aside from government
8:24always defaulting on their debt be it
8:29like a
8:30let's say a
8:33the the
8:35default where they actually don't pay it
8:36anymore. They also do it de facto
8:39through through financial repression.
8:40Aside from that they they're I don't
8:43think they
8:44they
8:46look after our best interest. They
8:48always want control. So I I never trust
8:51governments
8:53and I I never had. I've never had
8:55[clears throat]
8:56Yeah.
8:57Especially growing up in Brazil and
9:00yeah my father never really cared about
9:02politicians
9:04and politics. He just cared about
9:07the business that he was in and looking
9:09after his family and I guess I've become
9:13like him even though we did argue a lot
9:16when I was younger, you know, father and
9:18son. But
9:20the the older I get the more I realize
9:23that he was right.
9:24>> I think that that's quite normal. I was
9:27also quite
9:28idealistic. I think when I was very
9:31young I lived in San Francisco after
9:33university for many years and of course
9:36obviously I wasn't very conservative and
9:39eventually you sort of you get into the
9:41workforce, you start paying taxes, you
9:43start to see
9:45you start to pay attention a little more
9:46to to government and to politics and you
9:48you start to clock what's reality
9:52rather than just the ideological side of
9:55things.
9:57But as they say, you know, if you're not
9:58a socialist in your 20s, you have no
10:00heart and if you're still socialist in
10:02your 40s, you probably have no brain.
10:04So
10:05>> That's a [laughter] good one That's a
10:07good one.
10:08>> They attribute that to Winston
10:09Churchill, but I'm not actually sure
10:10that he' the first one to say that, but
10:12it is a
10:13pretty valid statement.
10:16[clears throat]
10:17[snorts]
10:17As we know, you know, western
10:18governments, especially America,
10:21have a history of
10:24bank bail-ins
10:25when things start to go wrong. Do you
10:28think that as we progress and things get
10:32kind of deeper into this mess,
10:35that bank bail-ins are inevitable?
10:38>> Or bailouts as well, I guess. I mean,
10:41the bail-ins haven't really happened
10:43that much. I guess in Cyprus it
10:44happened, but the next time there's a
10:47big banking crisis, even though back in
10:502023 they bailed out
10:53Janet Yellen
10:55of the Treasury and the Fed, they bailed
10:57out like depositors that had over
10:59250,000 which they shouldn't have
11:02at
11:03Silicon Valley Bank, but yes, it's in
11:05the books now that bail-in bail-ins are
11:08the next big thing, but
11:11I think
11:13they'll do everything to keep these
11:14banks going through
11:18well, they might not call a QE or
11:20they'll
11:21they'll they'll just come up with some
11:23kind of term and they'll try to keep
11:26them going as long as possible.
11:28And [clears throat] that's one of the
11:29reasons why
11:32yeah, I I don't think people should
11:34leave so much
11:35of their savings or their
11:38money
11:39because in the bank because it's
11:41actually an unsecured loan when you you
11:44put your funds in the bank.
11:48Of course, we we do need some funds in
11:50the bank to
11:52to transact
11:54on a daily basis and if you also running
11:56a business,
11:57you do need
11:59to have funds in there. You can't a lot
12:03of times paying cash is very difficult,
12:05but in Cyprus they they did a huge quite
12:09a big bail-in 2013
12:11and a lot of the
12:13people that lost a lot of their funds
12:17were businesses, small businesses or big
12:20businesses because the the insured
12:22amount was only up to €100,000
12:26and they got left. The people who had
12:28over €100,000,
12:30they were given
12:31equity in in the banks that failed,
12:35which
12:37was not worth that much.
12:39It might be worth something today, but
12:41if you're running a business and you
12:43don't have any cash and they give you
12:45these shares that are worthless,
12:47you're probably going to have to close
12:49down. So yeah, I don't know exactly what
12:52happened in Cyprus, but it wasn't wasn't
12:55good. And yeah, so they they've got
12:57that, the bail-ins. The other thing they
13:00have that David Rogers Webb has talked
13:04about is this great taking where they
13:07can take your securities, your stocks
13:10and bonds and
13:12and use it as
13:14collateral
13:16for failing banks. But I think that
13:19would be more in a deflationary event,
13:21so I don't think that will happen.
13:23And so that's why I think bail-ins is
13:27something that we need to be aware of.
13:29And
13:30that's why
13:33yeah, having physical gold and silver
13:34outside the system
13:36is
13:37a good way to counter that.
13:40>> How does, you know, let's say that that
13:42we're right about the monetary reset and
13:44I have a strong feeling that we are.
13:48How would somebody, you know, an average
13:50Joe distinguish between owning a good
13:52asset versus paying too much for it?
13:57And what are some things that you think
13:58you would avoid buying
14:00if we're in a big gold bull market,
14:02which we are?
14:03>> Yeah, I I mean
14:06I'm not like a stock analyst. I look
14:09more at the big bigger picture, but
14:12yeah, there are things like um
14:15price-earnings ratio um
14:17and other things and uh
14:19I look more at the technical picture. I
14:22I know that uh
14:24uh gold and silver, the mining sector
14:26for example, they they have huge
14:29cash flows
14:30and yet the the mining sector is hugely
14:34undervalued not not just against um
14:38gold and silver itself but against the
14:40general stock market. So yeah, look at
14:43the ratios like uh
14:45things like the uh S&P to GDX ratio and
14:50or
14:51um
14:52also the uh Philadelphia Gold and Silver
14:55Index divided by the price of gold.
14:58That's still below I mean even during
15:00the bear market in gold from the early
15:03'80s till
15:04the late '90s that uh the
15:08Philadelphia Gold and Silver uh
15:10index to gold ratio was higher than it
15:13is now.
15:14[laughter]
15:15And yes, we we've been in a in a
15:17correction since the beginning of the
15:19year but I still think we're in a
15:21long-term bull market. So that's one way
15:24to uh
15:26to look at
15:27how uh
15:29yeah, the mining sector is still
15:30undervalued and within the mining sector
15:33as well there's different kind of mining
15:35companies that you can invest in and uh
15:39yeah.
15:40>> And that actually it was a subject I
15:41wanted to touch on was obviously that's
15:43what we're in, right? Um with with
15:45Chancery and
15:46all of our projects were were miners and
15:48we do have of course the royalty company
15:50with Chancery Royalty but all of our
15:51other projects are mining projects. Do
15:53you think um some of the junior gold
15:55miners are still undervalued relative to
15:59the metal?
16:00>> Do you mean like the junior exploration
16:02or the junior producers?
16:05>> The junior producers.
16:06>> Yeah, yeah, they are undervalued. So are
16:09the so are the uh
16:12like the mid-tier I guess but
16:15I guess the um
16:17the big companies Newmont and Barrick
16:20they've done relatively well compared to
16:23bullion. They haven't corrected down as
16:26much as bullion and I think it's because
16:28the big institutional money
16:31not that they're
16:32they're into gold but they're just
16:35trying to find a way to diversify a
16:37little bit from the tech sector. They've
16:40gone into that. They're they're not
16:42going to look at the junior companies.
16:44So I think the junior companies will do
16:47really well once
16:49the gold fever and silver's fever
16:53really comes about. Right now the
16:56sentiment sentiment is so low for the
16:58sector
16:59that very few people are getting
17:02involved but it's probably the best time
17:04to get to get involved
17:06when no one wants to to get involved.
17:09>> Yeah
17:11that's a that's something else that I
17:13wanted to talk about is
17:14you know I wouldn't say that what we've
17:16had is a sharp correction.
17:18It's been it's been a correction.
17:22[clears throat]
17:23It hasn't really been
17:26like I said I wouldn't call it a sharp
17:27correction. It's just sort of just the
17:29market machinations. It's just the way
17:31it's a natural cyclical
17:33correction before the next leg up and I
17:35do believe that that next leg up is kind
17:37of just around the corner.
17:40Do you think that
17:42this particular correction in gold and
17:43silver is actually it strengthens the
17:46argument for the long-term investment
17:48case?
17:49>> It helps because
17:51in 2025 gold was up 65% which is a huge
17:56move. Silver is up almost 150%
18:00and then in the first
18:02four four to five weeks of this year
18:04gold was up another 30%. Silver was up
18:07even more.
18:09So the markets got ahead of themselves
18:12and yeah like you said gold is
18:16right now is trading just below 4,000 uh
18:19spot. That's down about 25-27%
18:23from the top.
18:24Silver is more, like over 50 %.
18:28Uh but that's normal. That's what
18:30happened in uh in '08. The same thing
18:33happened
18:34um with gold and silver. And then um
18:37they bottomed very quickly. And
18:40and then um by um
18:42yeah, 2011
18:44uh silver it was back above well at 50.
18:49And gold went up to 1,900. I think
18:51silver went below 10
18:53in 2008 and then it went all the way to
18:56uh so it went up eight times. So right
18:59now we're
19:00I think as we speak Eric here we've
19:03actually just traded back below 50.
19:06We're trading just above 50 now.
19:08And I think uh yeah, we're just closing
19:12the gap. Um not the gap but the we're
19:15testing the breakout, the 40
19:1845 year breakout that we had last year.
19:22And it's painful but
19:25it's going to create a lot of energy for
19:27the market to go back up. So let's say
19:29we we do the same thing we did from '08
19:32to 2011 well that would be eight times
19:3550. That's 400.
19:38It sounds uh
19:40outlandish but it's it's happened
19:42before.
19:44With gold probably a little less. It's
19:47probably more like four times. So
19:50because it when when things go up in the
19:53precious metals silver
19:55silver really outperforms.
19:57But yeah, even gold if you go
20:00four times or let's say we got to 680 uh
20:04in 2000 and um
20:078
20:08and then we went almost up to 2,000.
20:11That's like um
20:13three times. So three times four is 12.
20:16So we could we could have
20:19$12,000 gold and $400 silver
20:23which would be
20:24uh
20:25like uh
20:2630 to one, which isn't really
20:30the gold silver ratio. That's where it
20:32was in 2011 and I think there's
20:34potential for the gold silver ratio to
20:36go to go a lot lower than 30 this time
20:39around.
20:40>> It's uh it's funny cuz you've just
20:42answered a question, another question I
20:43had in my head which was um you know do
20:45you think there's a compelling case for
20:48uh silver to outperform gold from here?
20:52Um and it sounds like uh
20:54the answer is
20:56yeah, potentially.
20:59Um
21:01so here's a here's an interesting
21:02question. Do you think that the US
21:05could uh revalue its gold reserves and
21:09and if that happened, what would that
21:10mean in actual practice?
21:12>> Yeah, they they could revalue the
21:14statutory price. They did that in the
21:16'70s a couple of times from 35 to 38 in
21:191972 and then
21:21from 38 to 42 22 where it's now in 1973.
21:26All that would mean is that the um
21:30the US Treasury would get a windfall
21:33uh from like a book trade with the uh
21:37Federal Reserve gold certificates
21:39because the Federal Reserve
21:41uh
21:42they helped uh FDR confiscate the gold
21:44in 1933. They took the gold in
21:48or from
21:50the American people
21:52uh and then they had to pass it on to
21:54the Treasury. So they had to to write a
21:57the Treasury had to write a certificate
22:00to the to the Fed
22:02that um they had gotten their the gold
22:05from them.
22:07And that's all that happened. So the
22:10they'll do a book trade from 42 22 let's
22:12say to 4,000.
22:14That would mean a windfall of a thousand
22:16uh well a thousand billion or a trillion
22:19dollars for the Treasury without really
22:22getting rid of its gold and it wouldn't
22:25increase the national debt. So
22:27it would probably be
22:29yeah it would probably help a little
22:31bit, but a trillion nowadays as as we
22:35we see it only takes like 150 days of 54
22:40days to increase the national debt by a
22:42trillion. So
22:44it would just be a band-aid
22:46and
22:47it would help
22:49people who own precious metals though
22:51because it would create a floor at 4,000
22:55for gold.
22:56That's what it would do.
22:58And then they could do what might be
23:01called a layered revaluation. They could
23:03wait another year like they did in the
23:0470s and revalue it to let's say 6,000
23:08and so on and and get some more
23:10trillions to keep things going. But
23:13ultimately I I think
23:16the problem with with the system we have
23:18is that we have a central bank
23:21and we have profligate
23:24and corrupt I have to say Congress.
23:29I mean there are a lot of lobbyists out
23:31there. They're working with the
23:32lobbyists. I guess they're not corrupt.
23:36And what that does is that
23:38if you got a money machine like the Fed
23:41does yeah they just keep
23:44spending deficit spending and
23:47they've been doing it for so long that
23:51it's difficult to stop. But one day
23:55yeah one day people are going to realize
23:57it and everything will implode. And I
23:59think we're near that that point of
24:01implosion
24:02especially with interest rates rising in
24:06in the Treasury market.
24:09So
24:11yeah it it helps a little bit but I I
24:13think it's just a band-aid these
24:16revaluations
24:17and it's an admission that
24:20the
24:21it's an admission that the dollar is
24:22becoming less and less valuable.
24:25>> Which which we all know anyway.
24:28So,
24:29um at this stage of the cycle,
24:32uh
24:33do you think you would rather own
24:35physical bullion or gold miners?
24:38>> Uh I I
24:40for me it's a matter of owning both. So,
24:43I will always have
24:45uh
24:46more
24:48bullion, I guess, but
24:50hope I guess hopefully my mining
24:54portfolio will do really well that it
24:56will outstrip how much gold and silver I
25:00have. So,
25:01uh I would say yeah right now if I had
25:04to to do something I would probably be
25:06selling some some gold coins and buying
25:09some
25:10some miners like especially the the kind
25:13of companies we work with Eric, which
25:16are still mostly private
25:18and we can get get them for
25:22a fraction of its
25:25of it the the value of a lot of its
25:27peers out there.
25:30Yeah.
25:31>> Yeah. Um the miners of course
25:33[clears throat] always tend to lag
25:35uh the actual gold price and so right
25:37now as gold is
25:39we could call it beaten down, but in the
25:41in the long-term view it's not really
25:42because we're still at you know it's
25:43basing at kind of 4,000 even if we hit
25:45the next support at say between 38 and
25:4836 um it's still multiples of what it
25:52was a few years ago. So,
25:54uh I think people tend to have a
25:56short-term view um but as as we get into
25:58the next leg up of course then the
26:01miners especially the junior miners that
26:03are producing um they've got a long way
26:06to go, a long way to run.
26:09So,
26:10>> Yeah and
26:12Sorry to interrupt. They'll probably
26:14also be eyed by the bigger companies
26:18>> Yes.
26:18>> for a takeover.
26:20>> Yeah um which is not a bad thing.
26:23So,
26:24um
26:25[clears throat] what do you think you
26:26know we obviously you and I talk a lot
26:28about gold cuz you know I am in mining
26:30and um
26:32you know you do what you do uh and your
26:34your whole your whole channel is based
26:36around
26:37uh you know precious metals and and
26:39keeping something outside of the uh the
26:42monetary system.
26:43What do you think is the biggest
26:44misconception
26:46right now that investors have about gold
26:49and precious metals because the
26:50sentiment is very low right now?
26:52>> Yeah I I think the biggest misconception
26:55is that um higher bond yields uh
26:59in the bear market for bonds
27:01it's going to be bearish for gold. I
27:03think that's the biggest misconception
27:05because we had a
27:07massive bear market in in bonds in the
27:1070s and yet gold went from $35
27:14a troy ounce to almost 900.
27:17Uh I think that's the biggest
27:19misconception
27:20and that's what's uh probably hurting uh
27:23gold a little bit
27:25uh
27:26these days and I think uh a lot of the
27:29trading is done by machines you know
27:31people
27:32people who write a program uh
27:34algorithmic program that will say if uh
27:39bond yields go up
27:41that much sell gold and
27:43even though uh the bond yields are based
27:46on uh
27:47on a statistic let's say CPI that is
27:50completely not realistic.
27:53So yeah the algos and these programs
27:55they don't account for
27:57the fact that there's some so much out
27:59there there is that is fake I would say.
28:02So yeah I think that's the biggest
28:04misconception but that that in my
28:07opinion will
28:09uh eventually uh the truth will come out
28:13about that and if you look back to 2022
28:16I think the 10-year yield
28:19uh was just starting to rise from below
28:22uh 1% in 2020
28:24and gold was below 2000 uh and the
28:2710-year was around 1 and a half and here
28:30we are the 10-year
28:32is around five and gold is at 4,000. So,
28:36yeah, in the short term, yeah, you're
28:39going to see a lot of inconsistencies,
28:41but that's how markets work. Uh
28:45>> A lot of investors still
28:46treat gold as a non-yielding commodity
28:49rather than like a core financial asset.
28:51And I think
28:53um the reason that we haven't really
28:54seen yet the retail crowd kind of catch
28:58on, right? The first leg up, as we've
28:59talked about many times,
29:01really had more to do with um a lot of
29:03central banks buying up gold and etc.
29:05The retail crowd has yet to kind of
29:07catch on.
29:08Um
29:09and I think that
29:10that most of the retail crowd still sees
29:12this as a non-yielding sees gold as a
29:14non-yielding uh sort of commodity rather
29:17than what we see is should be a core
29:19financial asset. What do you think is
29:22going to happen? What Where was the
29:23breaking point where that perception
29:25might change?
29:27Because I think that that might happen
29:29relatively soon.
29:30>> Yeah, I mean I've got here and uh
29:34I've got uh German government bond uh
29:36from 1930
29:38and it was a gold bond uh and it paid
29:41interest in bond in gold
29:44because gold was money back then in
29:451930.
29:47Uh
29:48and I think there's a lot of um
29:50companies out there already uh providing
29:53that service where you can lend your
29:55gold.
29:56Uh they call it a lease rate.
29:59And uh the reason why uh
30:02most people say, oh yeah, gold doesn't
30:04pay any interest
30:06is because uh it's been out of the
30:08monetary system. They've uh like um
30:11put it in the uh
30:13on the side. They don't want people to
30:15to know it's money.
30:17Uh it's the same thing with uh
30:20like uh Federal Reserve note. If you
30:22keep it at home, it doesn't earn
30:24interest. You have to lend it.
30:26So I think eventually that will um
30:30well will return
30:32gold and even silver. People lend
30:34silver.
30:35Uh I personally right now wouldn't want
30:38to lend my gold, um,
30:40because that's not the I think we are in
30:43a monetary environment that's really
30:47unstable and and really I don't trust
30:51counterparties too much,
30:53um, especially those who are
30:57borrowing and lending. Um,
31:00yeah, so I'm not greedy. I I'll stick
31:04but it's possible to to lend gold of
31:06course. And actually the the big bullion
31:09banks and the big
31:11financial institutions, they do it all
31:13the time.
31:14They lease the gold.
31:16And a lot of times it's done to
31:18manipulate the market. They lease let's
31:20say they have one one ounce of gold,
31:23they'll lease 10.
31:25And then whoever borrows
31:28those 10 oz will sell it short.
31:31And that's why we we get the kind of
31:34moves that we get. It's a fractional
31:36reserve system.
31:38Um, yeah.
31:40But we we can't I mean we can do that. I
31:43guess you'd be leveraging.
31:45But yeah, that's that's the whole
31:48that's what I would say about that.
31:51>> [clears throat]
31:51>> We talk a lot about the dollar obviously
31:53because it's a reserve currency and um
31:55it's kind of on the top of everyone's
31:57mind. But do you [clears throat] think
31:58that the euro will face
32:01um a more serious crisis in the short
32:03term over the next few years than the
32:05dollar?
32:08>> Um,
32:09yeah, no, I I do think the euro is
32:13not not in terms of its value, but in
32:15terms of its integrity
32:18in that it could just dissolve like
32:22if the situation in France for example
32:24gets worse
32:26>> Yeah.
32:26>> Um,
32:27yeah, we could see
32:31uh yeah, without France you you wouldn't
32:33really have a euro.
32:35So
32:37I guess one way to hedge that is to have
32:39German government bonds because if the
32:41Euro were to disappear, you'd have
32:43Deutsche Marks.
32:45So,
32:47that's what I would do if if I was
32:50buying Euro government bonds, I'd buy
32:52the German ones or even Dutch because
32:54the Dutch
32:57the Dutch
32:58[clears throat] financial fiscal
33:01situation is
33:03pretty good actually for European
33:04standards.
33:06>> Yeah, I mean my
33:08I don't give financial advice and this
33:10is in no way financial advice to anybody
33:12watching but uh
33:13>> that's what I would be doing. That's
33:15what I think
33:16Yeah, I'm not saying you should do that
33:18but
33:19I think it happened in in 2011 2012
33:23when you had
33:25the
33:26PIGS crisis, Portugal, Italy, Ireland,
33:29Greece, and Spain.
33:30>> Yeah.
33:31>> There's a lot of rumors that the Germans
33:33were printing new Deutsche Marks because
33:35they thought everything was going to
33:36implode.
33:38>> Yeah.
33:38>> And yeah, that could happen.
33:42But that's a little different than the
33:44situation the Dollar is in. This is more
33:46of a political thing and the fact that
33:50these different countries have different
33:52treasuries and they don't really work
33:53together. In the US, the problem is more
33:56that
33:58you have one treasury and one central
34:00bank and they've abused it so much that
34:03that is so high. Yeah, the debt in
34:06France is high but [clears throat] the
34:07debt in the Netherlands or in Germany is
34:09not as high.
34:11So, it's kind of
34:13it's not like you're you're comparing a
34:16little bit apples and pears there.
34:19>> Yeah.
34:20And this is where you know this is
34:21really the biggest difference between
34:24the Dollar and US debt versus the Euro
34:28and how Euro debt is spread out, right?
34:31They never really consolidated the Euro
34:33debt. This is one of the things that
34:34Martin Armstrong has always talked about
34:35because he was
34:36>> yeah.
34:36>> Helmet Kohl consulted him and Martin
34:39told him uh
34:40well you're going to have to if if you
34:41want euro to compete with the dollar,
34:43you're going to need to combine all the
34:44debts of these countries. And Helmut
34:46Kohl basically came back and said, well,
34:49I'll never I'll never get that vote. So
34:51we're just going to push the currency
34:52through. And Martin said, well, then
34:53this is doomed from day one because
34:55you're never going to compete with the
34:56dollar unless you have the same sort of
34:58structure. And if you have
35:00very you know if you buy um a US uh
35:04bond, right, a treasury or whatever,
35:06it doesn't matter if the state of
35:07Illinois goes bankrupt, if the state of
35:09California goes bankrupt, your federal
35:11note is still, right,
35:13good. But when you buy a euro bond,
35:16you're you're buying specifically from a
35:18particular country. And so um going back
35:21to when I said this is certainly not
35:22financial advice, but I would in answer
35:24to our our discussion, I would basically
35:26just say stay away from all euro debt
35:28because um
35:32better better things to put your money
35:33in.
35:34>> Yeah, I guess it's like having a dollar
35:37in the US, but having the debt from 50
35:41different states.
35:42>> Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
35:45>> but I I would add if you were going to
35:47have some euro debt, I would stick to
35:50German and and Dutch. That's it. Cuz
35:53they they would turn into
35:56uh Dutch guilder debt
35:58uh or
35:59Deutsche Mark debt.
36:01>> Yeah.
36:02Um we can start to see, you know,
36:05already [clears throat]
36:06uh the capital controls
36:08uh happening in Europe when Ursula, you
36:10know, said, oh, well, we're not going to
36:11allow any
36:13uh
36:15any anybody to open accounts with an
36:18institution that does not have any
36:19branches in Europe.
36:21Um I think for a lot of people, they
36:22just kind of shrugged their shoulders
36:23and went, okay, well, you know, what
36:25does that matter to me? But in the
36:27bigger picture, um these are some pretty
36:30pretty hefty capital controls that are
36:31starting to come down. And usually that
36:34only happens when um
36:36when governments are getting pretty
36:37desperate. But as we know, uh
36:39this is the way it's going to go because
36:41we're we're spiraling into a sovereign
36:44debt crisis, and we're kind of
36:46we're not spiraling into it. We're
36:47actually pretty deep into it at this
36:48point. And, you know, so
36:51that's uh that's what's happening.
36:54So,
36:55um
36:56[clears throat]
36:57what do you think um you know, obviously
37:00you've talked about the end of the
37:0140-year
37:02bond bull market. Um
37:05you know, the most important
37:06macroeconomic
37:07shift
37:09uh
37:10what do you think the the biggest one on
37:12uh that investors are overlooking as far
37:15as that?
37:15>> At the bond market?
37:17>> Yeah.
37:18>> Yeah, I I think uh
37:20probably like uh I wasn't in the markets
37:23in the early mid '80s, but um
37:26back then I think there was still a lot
37:28of people that thought um bond bonds are
37:31going to keep going down like they did
37:33in the '70s. They didn't realize that
37:36we're in the beginning of uh
37:38a bull market. And I think it's the same
37:41thing now. There's still a lot of people
37:43who who feel like if we have a
37:45recession, everything will be fine and
37:48bond yields will drop and bond prices
37:50will go up again. I I think that's the
37:52biggest uh
37:54biggest mistake or misconception that a
37:57lot of people are making about the bond
37:59market.
38:00And uh I think it's going to surprise
38:02keep surprising a lot of people on the
38:05on the upside in terms of yields and on
38:07the downside in terms of price.
38:10Eventually they'll um
38:13they'll realize it and and that would be
38:15a really bad thing for for the whole uh
38:19financial system and the economy because
38:22the economies in the US and the West in
38:24general are heavily dependent on on
38:27cheap credit.
38:28>> Absolutely.
38:29Um and even in Asia, as you know, I'm
38:32based in Asia and um
38:34in the place where I live uh
38:36household [snorts] debt is uh
38:38absolutely through the roof.
38:40And uh it's something that it just
38:42becomes everyday life. It's something
38:44that is common and nobody really thinks
38:46about it, but obviously it's a it's a
38:47pretty big problem in the big picture.
38:50Um,
38:51[clears throat] and of course that's
38:53uh that's an issue in the West as well
38:55for quite a long time.
38:56Um,
38:58Catherine Austin Fitts, and I know that
38:59we've been going for about 40 minutes. I
39:00don't want to keep you for too long, uh
39:02but I know that you've had Catherine on
39:04your show. I love Catherine Austin
39:06Fitts. I think she's fantastic. I try to
39:08watch every interview that she does and
39:11her view on
39:13how
39:14uh [snorts]
39:16how the governments, I guess you could
39:18say, or the powers that be
39:20may
39:22shift us into the stable coins or into
39:25the CBDCs is quite interesting. Uh
39:28I don't know if you've heard her theory
39:29on that, but she basically just said,
39:31you know, one day
39:33we may wake up and your money in the
39:36bank appears to be gone and
39:39the solution that the governments will
39:41have is, oh well, this has been a big
39:42cyber attack.
39:44We can give you your money back, and in
39:46fact, we could even give you a
39:48percentage on top of what you had in the
39:50bank. We have all the records, but
39:51you'll have to take it in these stable
39:54coins or CBDCs, whatever the case may
39:57be.
39:57Um, and I think to people who haven't
40:00been paying attention, that just sounds
40:01kind of kind of outlandish, but first of
40:03all, I trust a lot in what Catherine
40:05Austin Fitts is talking about because
40:07she knows what she's talking about. And
40:09number two, if you've been paying
40:10attention for a while, that's not
40:12outlandish. That's actually exactly what
40:14I would expect. So um in a in a couple
40:17of minutes, what's your take on that,
40:19Mario?
40:19>> Well,
40:21the day we're speaking
40:23there's news that 6 and 1/2 billion
40:26dollars have been hacked out of Binance,
40:29the biggest crypto exchange.
40:31>> Mhm.
40:31>> So they can easily
40:34justify
40:36saying, oh, all the money in your bank
40:39account is gone.
40:41Uh all
40:42and we're going to give you give you
40:45this new currency, CBDC, or they could
40:49also
40:50engineer some kind of crisis, let say
40:55the financial system, believe it or not,
40:57is heavily dependent on undersea cables.
41:00Like a lot of communications between
41:02London and New York is done not through
41:04satellite but undersea cables, the
41:06internet, everything is undersea cables.
41:09They could destroy those
41:11and say the Russians destroyed it or
41:14you know and every
41:15the whole system has shut down. They'll
41:18bring in a new system
41:20and
41:22the
41:22>> digital IDs, right? That's the whole
41:23point.
41:24>> Yeah, and the money that you had is now
41:26called something else
41:29and they'll be able to track you.
41:31>> And on the control grid, right? It's all
41:33about control.
41:34>> and that's why it's important to have
41:36some different kind of
41:40like assets outside the system because
41:44you won't escape completely because
41:47we're all going to have to probably
41:50get a digital wallet or something but
41:55you have an advantage over other people
41:58if you've got something that you can
42:00transact outside that system.
42:02I hope I hope she's wrong about that.
42:06>> I think she hopes she's wrong too but
42:08>> Yeah, like I said, she she worked
42:12on Wall Street for
42:14big investment banks. She
42:16[clears throat] she worked for the
42:18Bush the first administration.
42:22So she was an insider so she knows what
42:25she's talking about.
42:26>> Absolutely.
42:30Well, Mario, I don't want to keep you
42:31too long. I know that you're really
42:32busy. You've got your own stuff to do
42:34with your own channel and I'm sure that
42:36Rudy's probably itching for a walk. So
42:39[laughter]
42:40I will let you go but Mario, as always,
42:42it's great to talk to you, buddy. I'm
42:43sure that our audience enjoyed it as
42:45well. So
42:47thanks for your time.
42:49It's always it's good to have you on and
42:51uh so that is it. Unless you've got
42:53anything else to add, Mario, we will
42:55wrap it up for today.
42:57All right, buddy.
42:59Um enjoy the rest of your day, Mario,
43:01and for the rest of you watching, you're
43:02very welcome. And uh this is Old Gold
43:05signing out. We will see you again next
43:06time. Again, thanks everybody for
43:08joining.

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