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Manipulation Expert: "Don't Try To Be Interesting!" These Words Make People Dislike You │Jack Neel — Transcript

by Jack Neel · 13,411 words · 2,316 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00What are some habits that make people
0:01dislike you?
0:03>> From a mammalian perspective or human?
0:07>> I guess human, yeah.
0:09>> I think not being interested.
0:13So, most people focus too much on being
0:15interesting instead of being interested.
0:18And that is the number one recipe.
0:21The the second way that people will get
0:24into a point of not being liked by other
0:26people
0:27is I need to be on top. So, you'll say,
0:30"Oh, I went to this I went on this great
0:33vacation to uh
0:34Disney World." I'll say, "Oh, great.
0:35Yeah, we just went to Rome, actually.
0:39And uh we toured the entire Vatican, got
0:41this backstage pass to the Vatican. Uh
0:43which I never have, but
0:46And it's not I'm I'm not saying like you
0:48don't want up people. Obviously,
0:50everyone should, I hope, know that.
0:52But what I'm saying is if I'm doing this
0:55subconsciously, every time this person
0:57wants to be seen as important or
0:59significant or to gain some kind of
1:01social acceptance, I'm shutting them
1:02down.
1:04And the three biggest social needs that
1:07people have are significance. I need to
1:09feel significance. I need to be
1:10accepted, and I need some kind of
1:11approval.
1:12Like I need to be told I'm doing a good
1:14job or I'm some kind of recognition.
1:17The moment that we see somebody
1:19exhibiting like I I see this person and
1:23they say, "I'm a CEO. I've got 45
1:25employees. We've made $10 million last
1:28month." and all of that. I know for a
1:29fact that they thrive on significance.
1:32So, the moment that I say, "Oh, I have I
1:34just made $15 million last month and I
1:36did all this." I'm taking away the exact
1:38thing that they need from other people
1:40in social interactions.
1:42And it it makes us feel good, but we're
1:44not really doing that for the other
1:45person.
1:46And when you get to understand, am I
1:48dealing with a person that is
1:49significance driven, acceptance driven,
1:52or approval?
1:54And the moment I start taking that away,
1:57I'm taking away not just how they feel,
1:59I'm taking away neuropeptides.
2:02Cuz they get dopamine and other
2:04neuropeptides from that feeling. So,
2:07it's like a person knocking on a drug
2:08dealer's door.
2:10And the drug dealer is like, "No, go
2:11somewhere else."
2:13So, that's kind of what it is cuz we are
2:15there are chemicals and we're dealing in
2:17a in a at a chemical level. This person
2:19needs to be validated and made to feel
2:21significant. Made to feel like they're a
2:23part of a group. Made to feel like they
2:25have permission to do something. Made
2:27like complimented on and and told that
2:29they did a great job.
2:31Um and and just as a quick example,
2:34the acceptance people are always going
2:36to be talking about groups and tribes.
2:38They'll use pronouns like we
2:40way more often in their speech and their
2:42language.
2:43And the approval people are always going
2:45to be saying things to get you to kind
2:47of
2:48tell them that they're okay. Tell them
2:49they're doing a good job. They might
2:51say, "Oh, I'm going on uh this podcast
2:53tomorrow and I always suck. Uh every
2:55time I go on a podcast, I always suck
2:57and people just don't like it."
2:59Cuz they want you to say, "Oh, no, Jack,
3:00it's okay. You did a great job last
3:02time. That uh
3:04that last podcast you did got 55,000
3:07likes on the video and most of the
3:09comments were really positive." So, that
3:10would be like on the approval side.
3:13So, the biggest mistake that people make
3:15is not getting to a place where I
3:18understand what this person's social
3:20needs are.
3:21And now I understand how to give them
3:22those social needs.
3:24So, if I want to persuade a person and I
3:26know they're driven by significance,
3:29I say, "You know what? Jack, it's
3:32you make a tremendous difference around
3:33here and I've met your team and everyone
3:35I've met that works with you really
3:36looks up to you and respects you."
3:38That that would do
3:40work wonders
3:42for a person that has that social need.
3:44Because I I just I just say a few words
3:47and keep in mind that so many people
3:49view the world as like Harry Potter
3:51where they think there's some magic
3:52script out there, where I'm just going
3:53to have this little spell and it's going
3:55to make somebody's behavior change.
3:57But this is as close as it gets right
3:59here.
4:00Understanding precise human needs and
4:02what they seek out in social
4:03interactions. And it's going to be
4:04different for everybody. And there's six
4:06needs that I typically teach. It's not
4:08just the significance, approval,
4:09acceptance.
4:11We also teach pity, that some people are
4:14seeking pity.
4:15A need to be seen as intelligent and a
4:17need to be seen as powerful or strong.
4:20And you'll see these people that are
4:22more posturing and all that kind of
4:23stuff. And if you understand how to
4:25compliment those needs and how to give
4:27them the neuro They're not looking for
4:29you to say words. They're looking for
4:31neuropeptides. Words are just the avenue
4:34to get the chemicals that they need from
4:36social interaction.
4:38All we're doing by understanding what
4:39needs this person has is understanding
4:42how to trigger those chemical pathways
4:44in a person's brain.
4:45>> How do you deal with people that just
4:47have these super high egos that speak
4:50about all their great accomplishments,
4:52uh
4:53but when you compliment them, they
4:55almost reject it and kind of uh
4:59like don't want to hear compliments, but
5:01they also don't want you to like add on
5:03to their compliment. It seems to be like
5:05fairly common thing I've noticed with
5:07hyper successful guys. Uh
5:09>> I think there's a lot of people that
5:10have the egos around all of their
5:12accomplishments.
5:14They want to appear humble.
5:17Uh but they may not be humble.
5:19And I think the best way to deal with
5:21that is to ask them that exact piece of
5:24advice.
5:25So, give me an example of a person that
5:27uh says something like, "Well, I went to
5:29Oxford or something like that."
5:31>> I guess like I have an IQ of 180.
5:36>> Wow.
5:37So,
5:38you having an IQ this high, do you mind
5:40if I just want to ask you a question
5:41really quick cuz I've been struggling
5:42with this for a while.
5:45You kind of probably see conversations
5:47in different levels than most people do.
5:49And notice that I'm not looking at you
5:51while I'm asking this question. So, I'm
5:53not putting social pressure on you. So,
5:54I'm looking away.
5:56Do you probably see a lot of these
5:57conversations in like different levels
5:59than most people?
6:00And I'm been struggling with
6:03and then you just asked exactly what you
6:05asked me.
6:06And when they give you advice, they're
6:08agreeing not to be that person.
6:10>> I get it. So, it goes back to the
6:11original thing of you're giving them the
6:13identity of not that person.
6:15>> Yes.
6:16>> Okay.
6:16>> But you're asking their advice. And so,
6:18the moment that they start uh telling
6:20you something that they're proud of,
6:21these little accomplishment ego is what
6:23I call that. Uh accomplishment driven
6:25ego.
6:27They
6:28you take exactly what they say. And you
6:29want to do this as early as possible in
6:31that interaction. So, the moment Give me
6:33another one that you might hear from
6:34somebody.
6:35>> I just left with seven women this week.
6:38>> Okay.
6:39That's a lot.
6:41And I've got to I've got to ask you one
6:44question cuz I mean, to sleep with that
6:45many women, you've got to have some
6:47social skills that most people don't
6:48have.
6:49Can I borrow your advice for like 30
6:51seconds?
6:54And then right away, I'm going to say,
6:55all right. So,
6:57every once in a while, I'll have these
6:58people
7:00and I
7:01I don't know how to say it, but they
7:02have this and then I'll go right into
7:04that exact same question. They have this
7:06ego. They want to They won't take
7:08compliments and all of this stuff. How
7:09do I deal with these people?
7:11You
7:11You identify that person. They start do
7:13doing these things. You use what they
7:15say about themselves to say, this is why
7:18you're perfect to answer this question.
7:19>> Mhm.
7:21>> And the moment cuz they're going to give
7:22you advice.
7:23It's might be shitty. It's going to be
7:24horrible advice.
7:26But they're making that subconscious
7:28agreement that I am not that person. The
7:31moment they give you advice, they're
7:32saying, here's how to deal with those
7:34people. And they're it becomes not them.
7:37You're not permanently changing their
7:38identity. Once they go to a another
7:40party or something the same night,
7:42they're going to go back to being
7:44ego-driven.
7:45But, you're changing the results you're
7:47going to get in that situation. And
7:49maybe over time, you're changing the
7:51results they're going to get with you.
7:52They'll be a different person with you.
7:55It's fascinating.
7:56>> Um,
7:57on the habits of people
8:00um, making people dislike you, is there
8:02anything like instantaneous, like body
8:04language-wise, that you think of?
8:07>> Um,
8:08direct facing, like facing someone
8:10head-on, like a 180,
8:13direct facing someone.
8:15And this other thing that we call
8:16proxemics.
8:18It's like within the first 5 minutes of
8:20interaction, you're not supposed to
8:21invade like the 26-in mark.
8:25But, if you and I were 26, let's say
8:27we're 26 in away from each other,
8:30uh, and we're both facing that wall of
8:32the podcast studio,
8:34we're it's fine.
8:35But, at 26 in and we both turn into each
8:38other and like face each other, now it's
8:40weird.
8:41>> Mhm.
8:41>> So, uh, proximity and what's called
8:44ventral orientation, which is where
8:46we're how we're facing our bodies.
8:48Um, those are the two fastest ways cuz
8:50you're setting off all of those
8:52mammalian brain alarms and saying,
8:54"Something is
8:56something's off here. I need to protect
8:57myself."
8:59The fastest other way to do this
9:02is
9:03to
9:04automatically start using a tone of
9:06voice that's different than that person,
9:08then inappropriate for the social
9:10setting. So, way too loud or way too
9:13soft. And that makes people
9:15automatically think something is
9:16different about this person.
9:18So, they're not part of this tribe.
9:21Because even if we're in a bar, that
9:23bar, the people that are drinking that
9:25we don't even know, are part of our
9:26tribe cuz we're all acting the same,
9:29we're all drinking the same, we're all
9:30kind of have all of these things in
9:32common. So, they become like a little
9:34micro tribe in the human brain. Then
9:37somebody starts acting differently from
9:38that tribe
9:40and I interact with them. Let's say it's
9:43you, you come up to a table and like
9:44you're acting funny or doing something
9:46different than the rest of the tribe is
9:47doing. The moment that I start
9:49interacting with you, I become another
9:50outcast.
9:52I'm associating with someone who's not
9:53conforming to the tribe's agreed-upon
9:56behavior.
9:57>> When is the right time to mirror
9:59someone's body language?
10:01>> Let's talk about this.
10:02Um
10:03so when the mirroring stuff came out,
10:06it was a bunch of like behavior nerd
10:10versions, probably,
10:12who would take a legal pad out with them
10:14to a bar and they would watch people
10:16interact in a bar.
10:18So over time, they started making all
10:20these notes and they saw, "Oh, when
10:21people like each other,
10:23they're going to start mirroring each
10:25other's behaviors."
10:27So
10:29what that means is mirroring is a
10:32symptom
10:33of people liking each other.
10:35Right?
10:36>> Mhm.
10:37>> And this started our national obsession,
10:40this one thing, especially in
10:41psychology.
10:43It started this national obsession with
10:45symptoms.
10:46Because
10:48if you like if you go on LinkedIn or
10:50YouTube or Google right now and type in
10:54how to how to be confident,
10:56you what are you going to see? You're
10:57going to see all these articles like 17
10:59ways to command respect like a CEO,
11:0325 ways to have confident body language
11:05for your next sales pitch.
11:07And what do the articles say? Let's you
11:09click on it, open it up.
11:11Uh
11:12really good posture.
11:13>> Yeah.
11:13>> Large gestures, speaking with certainty,
11:16making solid eye contact with someone,
11:18using their name really often, a firm
11:19handshake, touch them on the shoulder
11:21every once in a while.
11:23Those are symptoms of confidence.
11:27So our our country gets I don't know
11:29why. If you You at our healthcare
11:30system, we're obsessed with symptoms and
11:32not causes.
11:34If you look at the how to be more
11:37uh
11:38mindful during the day.
11:40They give you a bunch of symptoms of a
11:42mindful people, but not the cause of
11:44mindfulness.
11:45There's so many things out there that
11:47are and this only occurred to me like 5
11:49years ago after I retired from the
11:51military.
11:52They're all like symptom focused and
11:55what I call cause blind.
11:57So,
11:58when back to this question that you
12:01asked me, that was a huge tangent.
12:03But,
12:03these these
12:05dudes are sitting in this bar writing
12:07all this stuff down.
12:09Me mirroring your behavior won't make
12:12you like me. I I it's a symptom of us
12:15liking each other.
12:16So, mirroring happens after the liking.
12:19What are some other things people do
12:20when they are
12:22uh when they start to develop trust with
12:24each other? They get close. They get
12:26closer to each other. They're more
12:28comfortable with physical contact.
12:30Uh what else?
12:31What can you think of?
12:32>> They face more and their feet point
12:34toward each other. Uh I
12:36>> So, let's say you walk up and within the
12:39first couple minutes of an interaction,
12:40you face someone directly, you get
12:43really close to them, and you start
12:44touching their arm and hand.
12:46They're symp- they're just symptoms.
12:48>> Mhm.
12:48>> [clears throat]
12:48>> Um
12:49and we we like somebody based on it this
12:51little grocery list that's in our our
12:53mammalian brain. Mirroring can be good
12:56in some situations,
12:58but it's not just a universal thing.
13:01The best thing to mirror is like if a
13:03person's relaxed,
13:05I'll be relaxed. If they're attentive
13:06and focused, I'll be attentive and
13:08focused. I want to mirror the mammal,
13:10not this not the body. Like, where are
13:12they mentally and like
13:14we you and I aren't mirroring each other
13:15really exactly at all, but we have very
13:18similar emotional body language. Like,
13:21we're relaxed. We're it having a
13:23conversation. That is far more important
13:26than like am I going to cross my ankle
13:28over like that so Jack will like me? And
13:31it doesn't really like even if I did
13:32this right now,
13:34that's not making a difference in your
13:35psychology.
13:36You can't feel any difference
13:38of listening to me now versus when I had
13:40my legs crossed the other way. But, it
13:42is more of a difference if I'm
13:44kind of matching you emotionally and we
13:46kind of have that going on.
13:48So, if
13:49if we're mismatched emotionally and
13:52cognitively, that's where you want to do
13:54them the the work. We need to get that
13:56out to a match first. So, like matching
13:59the the
14:01a person's body language is not going to
14:03give you
14:05uh in I don't think hardly any advantage
14:08whatsoever. Like if you've got all your
14:10[ __ ] figured out, you're a persuasion
14:11expert, you have unlimited, unstoppable
14:14confidence, you've learned all these
14:15linguistics,
14:17then mirroring might give you a little
14:18bit of an edge.
14:20Maybe like a 1 to 2% edge.
14:22>> Interesting.
14:23It's so funny that people often refer to
14:25that as like the main thing to uh
14:28>> I'll tell you why.
14:28>> part of seduction, yeah.
14:30>> It's it's because
14:32I can teach you a technique that gives
14:34you a placebo
14:36of having developed some kind of skill.
14:40And it's something you can go out and do
14:41easily, but it's hard to get any results
14:44from it because you need
14:46so much other stuff to get
14:49results from other people. The mirroring
14:51was never a huge part of that in my
14:54opinion. And I've studied this for 30,
14:5640,000 hours. I've crossed the
14:5810,000-hour mark a long time ago.
15:01And
15:03I'll give you another example of one of
15:04these
15:05things. Like the linguistics I talked
15:07about, that's kind of a light level.
15:09It's not doing heavy lifting. Like even
15:11though it sounds cool, though.
15:14Like I learned this thing on a podcast
15:15where you like you point at yourself and
15:16you say the word fascinating.
15:19That is not a heavy lifting technique,
15:23but it makes you feel like, "Oh, you
15:25know, I've got this. I've got this
15:27little thing that I can take out and
15:28use."
15:29Me telling you to like be more mindful
15:32and fix your [ __ ] be radically
15:34self-forgiving, get to a point of
15:36confidence, go do a psychedelic journey
15:38or something, obviously after you talk
15:40to a doctor. I'm not a doctor. I'm not
15:41giving anybody advice.
15:43But like step out of all of these things
15:45that are holding you back and you will
15:47live you will enjoy a planet that most
15:50people don't really live on. They're in
15:52a
15:53different reality, most people. They're
15:55living way behind their eyes in
15:57conversations.
15:59And
16:01that that has it's profound. Like if you
16:04just look at what what we've been
16:05talking about this whole time,
16:07getting yourself to a point of composure
16:11and confidence
16:13is 99% of the heavy lifting, maybe 95.
16:16And the other 5% is cool tricks that we
16:19can throw on top of it.
16:21Um
16:22but
16:23the one thing that I teach is this thing
16:25called the failure triangle. You can
16:27look at any situation
16:29uh that involves human beings
16:31and look at what there's one of three
16:33reasons it fails.
16:35Uh I failed to observe.
16:37Like I didn't read the room. I didn't
16:39read the person. Or I didn't understand
16:41that person's needs well enough. I
16:42failed to communicate.
16:44And this is I failed to say the right
16:46words. I failed to pitch it correctly. I
16:48didn't trigger that person's social
16:50needs. I didn't understand who I was
16:52talking to and say the right words and
16:54communicate the right way. Or maybe I
16:55just talk in a
16:57freaking boring way. I I'm just boring.
17:00And the third one is self-mastery.
17:02So it's observation, communication, and
17:04self-mastery.
17:05So let's say my observation was great,
17:07my communication was great, but I have
17:10no master over myself. I put a suit on,
17:12I put a sharp tie on, went out and got a
17:13manicure and a haircut and all this
17:15other stuff.
17:16And back home I've got a 15-ft pile of
17:18laundry that I haven't done. My sink's
17:20full of [ __ ] My bathroom counter's
17:22covered in crap all all over the place.
17:25But I'm pretending like in this sales
17:27pitch that I'm that I have my [ __ ]
17:28together.
17:30There's part of our brain that reads
17:31those gut feelings like we talked about.
17:34And that that the other person says,
17:35"You know what? He Everything sounded
17:37great, but something was off. Something
17:39didn't feel right about this situation."
17:41The The heaviest lifting thing is the
17:43self-mastery part where we kind of get
17:46and it's I People don't want to hear it.
17:47They want No, no, no, give me the
17:49give me the little cool technique. Give
17:51me the script.
17:52Uh but it's like I can give you the best
17:54script in the world. You got to be the
17:55right person who can read it.
17:58It It That's what it comes down to. I
18:00give you a flight checklist for an
18:01airplane. It does not make you a pilot.
18:03>> I guess uh
18:04just spending a bit of time with me, I
18:07how could I
18:09The original question was how could I
18:11use mirroring to get better responses
18:13from guest, but I given that it's a bit
18:15irrelevant, what could I do to
18:17uh
18:18what kinds of questions, what kinds of
18:20behaviors would give me the most useful
18:23personal information from people?
18:25>> Statements, not questions. So, what I
18:27mean by that is somebody says um
18:31XXX is the answer to all these things
18:34and you
18:35pretty much sum it up. You say, "So or
18:39So basically
18:41XXX." And you kind of deliver the
18:42summary and they're going to start
18:43adding on.
18:45And then you throw another statement out
18:46there after they add on to be like,
18:48"What Is that I don't know if I believe
18:50that."
18:51Hm. Is that Is that really Is I don't
18:53know if that's possible for someone to
18:54do that much.
18:56Then you're going to get a long
18:57statement out there cuz that's
18:58disbelief, right?
19:00And you're not saying you don't believe
19:01the person. You be like, "Wow." You
19:02might They might give you a fact. You
19:04say something like
19:05"Oh my god, that's hard to believe that
19:07that's even
19:08real. That's amazing." I didn't ask any
19:11questions and they're going to start
19:12responding. They'll be like, "Yeah, and
19:13actually they'll keep going down on the
19:15data."
19:17And then you do another provocative
19:19statement that is maybe triggering a
19:21need to correct the record. So, let's
19:23say give me a topic we're talking about.
19:24Like
19:25pretend you're a guest for 1 second.
19:27I'll I'll be Jack.
19:28>> Yeah, I chocolate ice cream is worse
19:31than vanilla ice cream.
19:33>> Wow. So, I
19:35And you're the expert in ice cream, is
19:37that right?
19:37>> I mean, I studied ice cream for 45
19:39years.
19:40>> Okay, so
19:41I'm not sure where I read it, but
19:44I read that 90% of people like vanilla
19:47over chocolate.
19:49>> Where did you read
19:50>> I can't remember where I read it, but I
19:52thought like in my life, I would have
19:54sworn that more people like vanilla.
19:56>> Okay, and then it'll be something along
19:58the lines of well, research shows this
19:59and this and this and this. And I just
20:01feel the need to correct it
20:02automatically.
20:02>> Yeah, so then you say, "Oh, research
20:04shows this, this, and this." And I I
20:06might say,
20:07"That is absolutely fascinating."
20:11Then they would say, "Yeah, cuz it it
20:13goes back this, this, this." And there's
20:15more elicitation statements.
20:17>> So, cuz you want to prove that something
20:18is more fascinating than us.
20:19>> Yes.
20:20And then you prove that it's more
20:21fascinating. Then I say, "So,
20:23essentially these guys all came together
20:25just to do this one study on chocolate
20:27versus vanilla ice cream."
20:29And then you're going to yeah. And even
20:31in 1973, then you're adding in some more
20:33data in there.
20:34So, the more sensitive the information
20:36you want to get from a person, the the
20:38more statements you should be using
20:39instead of the questions.
20:40>> Mhm.
20:41>> And that's where like these provocative
20:43statements come in, triggering a need to
20:45correct the record.
20:46Um and and this other thing called
20:48bracketing.
20:50So, if I want to get some kind of thing
20:51from you,
20:53uh I'll I'll just say a statement that
20:55says
20:56a bracket of
20:58numbers or whatever, but
21:00let's say we're doing the ice cream.
21:03I would I would have a bracket saying,
21:04"So, I would
21:06I guess I would imagine that
21:09like to get these results they must have
21:10studied thousands of people like
21:11probably between 1,000 and 5,000 people
21:13were involved in this study.
21:15And you're like, "Actually."
21:18So, that's me showing a a range of
21:19numbers.
21:20>> Mhm.
21:21>> And it doesn't matter like if the range
21:22is off. If in fact if the range is off
21:25they'll be like, "No, no, no. It's way
21:26more than that." Then they'll So, it's
21:28bracketing and triggering a need to
21:30correct the record at the exact same
21:32time.
21:33This is a technique the Soviets used uh
21:36in all throughout the Cold War to obtain
21:38secrets from United States Navy.
21:41And it was invent well, invented
21:43discovered I guess by this guy named uh
21:46John Nolan. And he wrote a book called
21:48confidential that you can't even get
21:50anymore uh even on eBay I don't think.
21:52It talks about this stuff called
21:54elicitation. So, it makes your brain
21:56feel like you're not being really
21:58questioned over and over and over again.
22:00So, no matter what I say like I'm
22:02talking right now about elicitation and
22:04all you do is kind of nod and be like,
22:06"That's fascinating. I bet
22:08I bet a lot of different countries use
22:10this."
22:11So, that's a provocative statement that
22:12starts with I bet. Right?
22:15And then I start talking about all like,
22:16"Yeah, the Russians used this in the
22:18Cold War to get secrets about our
22:20submarines."
22:21And then you just do a word repetition.
22:23Submarines?
22:25And then I go, "Yeah.
22:26The size of these propellers, how how
22:28fast they could go, how deep they could
22:29go, how covert they would go."
22:32Then you say
22:33uh another provocative statement.
22:36"These submarines go really deep. I
22:38would imagine the Russians probably got
22:39a lot of secrets from us."
22:41>> Mhm.
22:41>> There's no questions yet. I'm like, "Oh
22:43my god, yeah. They got this size of our
22:45propeller. They could figure out how
22:47close we could be to launch these
22:48nuclear missiles." Then you say
22:50"Which is
22:52amazing because they needed that data
22:54for X, Y, and Z." So, it's just a lot of
22:57statement responses. And I'm not saying
22:58100% of your podcast needs to be
23:00statement based, but
23:02>> So, in this case, the words are more
23:05effective than the actual like
23:07confidence and emotions behind them.
23:10>> Yes, and that what you just did was a
23:11provocative statement.
23:13>> Fast learner.
23:14>> [laughter]
23:15>> I need to implement it more, but I get I
23:17guess
23:18just um
23:21what's the effective time to use
23:23questions? Like, does it make people
23:24feel more comfortable to ask a question,
23:26or does it actually like have some sort
23:28of discomfort?
23:29>> If you're leading into something that uh
23:32might be
23:34sensitive, or might that person might
23:36not usually give to everybody, that's
23:39where you want to pepper in like 90%
23:41statement, 10% questions.
23:43If [clears throat] you want a person's
23:45mammalian brain to
23:47get an idea, you have to paint a picture
23:50vivid enough with sensory-rich
23:52information
23:54that allows their mammalian brain to get
23:57it.
23:57So, the mammalian brain does not speak
23:59English in any way. It doesn't
24:02understand language, but once the human
24:04brain understands something where it can
24:06form a bunch of pictures and images,
24:08that translates down to the mammalian
24:10side of the brain. Does that make sense?
24:12So,
24:13let's say I wanted to get you to kind of
24:17mentally get a
24:20imagery in your mammalian brain of like
24:23letting go.
24:25I might talk about something that
24:26vividly paints that picture. So, I might
24:28say something like, "Jack, I
24:30when I've a little stressed when I got
24:32off the plane and I booked this my
24:34assistant actually booked me with this
24:36massage therapist who's like famous
24:37around the country.
24:39She came to the hotel room
24:41and I've never felt that degree of
24:43relaxation before. Like, all the tension
24:45in your body just being completely
24:48erased. Like, your shoulders just drop.
24:50Everything falls. Like, even the skin on
24:52your face starts to relax. You didn't
24:54know that you carried tension in your
24:57skin and your scalp
24:59and you didn't even realize how easy it
25:01was to just kind of fully let go
25:04and to an experience.
25:06That was very hypnotic. Your breathing
25:08rate slowed by about three breaths per
25:11minute. You'll have that on camera if
25:12you want to look at it.
25:14And
25:17all I'm doing is
25:19I'm painting a picture first and then
25:20I'm describing sensory experiences about
25:23something else.
25:25But if I sat here and I said, "Jack, I
25:27want you to picture your skin relaxing."
25:28That's weird, right? Like we're in a
25:31conversation, that's weird.
25:33But if I'm talking about me
25:34I can say the same words to get your
25:36brain to associate all of those feelings
25:38and you cannot mentally
25:41pay attention to a story like the one I
25:43just said without kind of going into
25:46what that feels like and what that might
25:47feel like and
25:49if it's novel and unique and a person
25:51hasn't really thought about it before,
25:53you'll get them to bite on a lot more.
25:55So, like you have never probably
25:57pictured the sensation of the skin on
26:00your scalp relaxing until it's just when
26:01I said it a second ago. You're like,
26:04"Wow, you can kind of relax that skin a
26:05little bit."
26:07So,
26:08if it's novel so, it's it's a new piece
26:12of information that they kind of haven't
26:13pictured before, it's interesting
26:16it's sensory rich and it paints a
26:18picture. Then I'm translating that into
26:20the mammalian brain. So, whatever I want
26:22somebody to mentally experience
26:24if I speak it in that way
26:27I'm I can translate that into the
26:28mammalian brain which means I'm getting
26:30the body to
26:31uh adopt or I'm getting the brain to
26:34develop the image that I want it to to
26:36see.
26:37>> And this sensory experience is effective
26:40with emotions you want to experience or
26:43is it effective with any kind of emotion
26:46like a stressor, say?
26:48>> Yeah, so like if you wanted to stress
26:49someone out, you could explain in detail
26:52the process of feeling like that stress
26:54in the pit of your stomach, your
26:55shoulders tightening up.
26:56You could You could go in any direction
26:58that you wanted to go, for sure.
26:59>> What would that
27:01uh sound like?
27:02>> Uh for the stress?
27:03>> Yeah.
27:04>> Um you describe a some scenario where
27:07you became stressed out and you didn't
27:09realize it.
27:10Like I didn't realize how stressed I was
27:12about, let's say I'm coming on your
27:14podcast, right? And let's say I
27:16I get really nervous on on podcasts.
27:18And
27:20I said, "You know, Jack, I was just
27:21sitting in my hotel room last night and
27:22I just I didn't even realize that I was
27:25stressed until
27:27I like paid a little bit of attention to
27:28my body and I realized like my shoulders
27:30were getting tighter and tighter and
27:33tighter and my breathing was getting
27:34into this really shallow spot. I was
27:37clenching my jaw and you I'm sure you've
27:39had that feeling before like your stress
27:41is just kind of overtaking your body.
27:43So, now I've translate I've changed it
27:44from me talking about me to you."
27:47And that's me talking about you
27:48directly, which allows you to kind of
27:50resist it and say, "Uh I don't know. I
27:51don't Maybe I don't think I've had that
27:53before."
27:54But if I translate it to the general
27:56you,
27:58then I can say the word you without
27:59talking about you directly and I'll give
28:01you an example of that.
28:03I'd rather do it about something
28:04positive, but
28:05um
28:07it was you know, it was in my hotel room
28:09last night just thinking about this and
28:12I just notice all this tension and you
28:14know when like your body starts
28:15tightening up and your jaw's clenching
28:18and you don't really know why all of
28:19this is happening. And everything just
28:22gets tighter and more resistant. It's
28:24like your muscles and your skin just
28:26turn into this armor.
28:28So, I'm saying you all of this time, but
28:30I'm not
28:31directly talking about you. It's the
28:33general you.
28:35But I started with I.
28:37So, I did this, I did that and you know
28:39when you
28:41have that feeling of blank. So, I'm
28:43changing my language to shift from I to
28:45talking about you and that's called an
28:47I-U shift.
28:48Or the fancy name for that is a shift of
28:51referential index.
28:53>> And this is useful in
28:55uh just day-to-day conversations. And
28:57I'm guessing it'd be particularly useful
28:59in
29:00interrogations.
29:01>> Yeah.
29:02And if you could imagine
29:04like if
29:05the number one currency in persuasion,
29:08influence, human behavior, leadership,
29:10fill in the blank, whatever you you're
29:11doing with other humans, your number one
29:13currency is focus.
29:16So if I wanted to develop focus in you
29:17really quick,
29:19uh I would talk about how fascinating
29:22watching a podcast was, or reading a
29:24book was, or whatever. And I would
29:26vividly talk about the process of the
29:29volume getting turned down on everything
29:31around you, and how much all of your
29:33focus can just zoom in on one thing
29:36when you know that something's important
29:37to you.
29:39So I I narrowed in your focus with my
29:41hands, and then I said when something is
29:42important to you, and I
29:44casually kind of pointed to myself.
29:47So I'm vividly describing the process of
29:49focus happening, getting absorbed in
29:51something, and everything else kind of
29:52fading away to where it's just one thing
29:55has all of your attention and all of
29:56your awareness, and that's the most
29:58important thing for you.
30:00>> That's really fascinating that every
30:01time you say focus, I would imagine uh
30:03that the viewers probably watch the
30:05podcast a bit longer. Um
30:08>> Let's see if the drop-off rate.
30:09>> [laughter]
30:10>> How did uh
30:12how does this apply in interrogations
30:14and
30:15uh
30:16I guess generally
30:18when you're interrogating someone
30:21torture is more effective than kindness,
30:24right?
30:24>> It's the opposite.
30:26>> Really?
30:26>> Yes, proven.
30:28Time and time again, proven.
30:31And this started in World War II with a
30:33Nazi interrogator, a German
30:36interrogator, his name was Hanns
30:37Scharff. Every interrogation system
30:40that's taught that I'm aware of in the
30:42world
30:43uh a derivative of the work of Hans
30:46Scharff.
30:47He was the first guy that said, "Hey,
30:48what if we're not total dicks
30:50to these people? What if we're not just
30:52pure [ __ ] to these guys all the
30:54time? What if we take them out of their
30:56cell, take them on a walk around the
30:58park, give them a little better food,
30:59give them Advil when they need it, you
31:01know, blah, blah, blah."
31:03And it turned out that he got better
31:04results than
31:06so many other guys combined.
31:09He was getting intelligence from these
31:10people. And yet a few basic tenants.
31:13Um being kind,
31:15pretending like you know everything. So,
31:17every single thing they say, every piece
31:19of intelligence they provide, yeah, we
31:21knew that already. That's not a big
31:22deal.
31:24And a few other methods that we can get
31:26into, but
31:28the kindness part
31:30is so much more effective because
31:34if you
31:35think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs,
31:37and I'm imagining that like popping up
31:39on the YouTube screen for for you at
31:41home right now. If I'm a dick to you,
31:44and I'm torturing you, I'm injecting you
31:45with stuff all the time, I'm pushing you
31:48down to that lower level of survival and
31:51and safety.
31:53Um once you're there, are you you're
31:55only worried about you.
31:58Um
31:59which means that if you're providing
32:01intelligence and all this stuff, you're
32:02just going to make stuff up to survive.
32:05So, when people are getting tortured,
32:07they're at the bottom of Maslow's
32:09pyramid, and they will just do
32:10everything possible, even giving massive
32:14amounts of false information, just to
32:15keep themselves alive.
32:17And prevent the pain from happening.
32:20That makes sense?
32:21And in reality,
32:23when it when we're talking about like
32:24criminal
32:25uh interrogation,
32:27there are there five big things that you
32:29want to hit for an interrogation.
32:32So, you want to socialize,
32:34minimize, rationalize, project, and ask
32:38an alternative question. So, give me a
32:40crime uh and
32:42you can make up whatever you want, and I
32:44will make up a monologue is what we call
32:46that, and that's when
32:48you're in an interrogation, I ask you a
32:50couple of questions, there's like two or
32:51three questions that are absolutely
32:53brilliant
32:55at uncovering whether somebody is likely
32:57guilty or likely innocent. If we you
32:59want to go through those first?
33:01>> Sure. Yeah.
33:02>> Uh so, number one, let's say or I could
33:05>> I guess we could say the crime first. Um
33:07so, if I stole $5,000 from a 7-Eleven.
33:10>> Okay. So, number one, and this is called
33:13debate question.
33:15Um
33:16so, let's say I'm the police officer
33:18coming in here. The first thing I'm
33:19going to do is
33:21separate myself from the authority
33:23figures.
33:24So, I'm not going to come in with a
33:25uniform.
33:26I'm going to come in in civilian
33:27clothes.
33:29I'm I'm going to try not to have a gun
33:31on me unless my department requires the
33:33the gun to be on my belt in the
33:35interrogation room, which is a
33:36horrible, horrible policy. You should
33:38never allow firearms into an
33:40interrogation room.
33:41So, when I walk in, I'm going to
33:42separate myself from the police outside.
33:44I say, "Hey, I came in here, these guys
33:46are, you know, running this
33:47investigation and stuff, and we're just
33:49going to get started. I'm actually just
33:51waiting on some paperwork. If you
33:52wouldn't mind, just probably won't be
33:54very long."
33:56So, during this little period, and I
33:57learned this from Scott Roush, who's an
33:59interrogator, also on the behavior
34:01panel. This little pretend period of
34:04waiting for paperwork is all fake.
34:06It's made so we are mandated to sit here
34:08together, and I can start doing whatever
34:10I want.
34:12I can ask where you're from, I can ask
34:13these kind of basic questions and stuff.
34:16Then, uh they're going to bring these
34:18papers in,
34:19and we'll start
34:21doing some little conversation, but then
34:23I'll drop in this question.
34:25And I'll say
34:27and I'll I'll just say this to you as if
34:29I were in in the interrogation room, so
34:31you can hear the tone of my voice and
34:32all this.
34:34I say, "Jack,
34:37today's my day off.
34:39And
34:40I I think the same reason I came in here
34:42is because
34:43is I think you're a good person. So, I I
34:46just want to say this to you, which I
34:48don't really say to many people, but
34:51I I'm just going to ask you a question.
34:52I want you to think very, very hard
34:54um before you answer. I want you to
34:56really consider the question before you
34:58give me an answer. Is there any reason
35:00whatsoever
35:02that
35:04a video camera
35:06in that 7-Eleven uh would have you at
35:09that 7 at that store?"
35:11>> Yes.
35:12>> Okay, so now I've placed you at the
35:14scene, right?
35:16But at the at the beginning, if I go,
35:18"Were you at that 7-Eleven?"
35:21You'd be like, "Nope."
35:22>> Cuz it implies something else. Yeah.
35:24It's like, "Were you there at that day
35:26at this time?"
35:26>> Yeah, and you can deny that.
35:29And I also didn't say that there's a
35:30video, so it's not I'm not lying to you.
35:34I'm not saying there is a video. And if
35:36you just kind of go to the Let's go to
35:38the O.J. Simpson case.
35:40If you asked O.J., like, "Were you at
35:43Nicole's house last night?" He'd be
35:45like, "No."
35:46So, he drove his Bronco to that house,
35:49right?
35:49>> Mhm.
35:50>> So,
35:51in the O.J. case, you would say, "O.J.,
35:53is there any reason, any reason at all,
35:56and please keep in mind, those guys are
35:58out there investigating this stuff, and
36:00they are like pounding the ground.
36:01There's like 400 officers we have
36:03working on this case right now.
36:05And
36:07I want you to think carefully before you
36:08answer this. Is there any reason at all
36:10that one of the neighbors, or a couple
36:12of the neighbors, would say that they
36:14saw your vehicle outside of Nicole's
36:15house last night?"
36:18Now I've nailed you.
36:20Cuz you know that if you say no, then
36:23there's potentially multiple
36:24eyewitnesses who saw you, and now you're
36:26from the very beginning you're lying.
36:28And who you're only lying if you're
36:30guilty, right?
36:32So, that question is so powerful, and it
36:35it's just is there any reason
36:37X Y Z would exist. Your fingerprints
36:39would show up. There would be DNA there.
36:42Sometimes there's DNA that gets that
36:44travels around all the time. So, is
36:45there any reason we won't find some DNA
36:47on that thing?
36:49So, the second piece of this is called
36:51the punishment question.
36:53And the punishment question is great cuz
36:56it really differentiates between guilty
36:57and innocent people pretty fast.
37:00Uh and the punishment question is
37:05let's let's say that you're kind of
37:07denying taking the 10 grand from the
37:107-Eleven.
37:12I would say like well, we know that 10
37:14grand was stolen. What do you think
37:16should happen to the person that that
37:18steals 10 grand from a store?
37:22And that makes you consider cuz now
37:24you're going to have to tell me, the
37:25person who might be locking you up, what
37:27you what you're going to get as a
37:28sentence, right?
37:30So, people are going to be a lot more
37:31lenient.
37:33And even in interviews with um
37:36predators of
37:37people under the age of 18.
37:39I don't know what YouTube blocks, but
37:41I'll just say it that way.
37:43You ask them like
37:45what do you think should happen to the
37:46person who did this? And you'll get
37:48answers, legitimate answers from these
37:51people that say like, well,
37:52the person's sick. They have a they have
37:54a mental problem, and
37:56they definitely need some kind of
37:58counseling, some kind of therapy, and
37:59help, but they're they're sick.
38:01Probably not jail time, but they should
38:03definitely offer Yes, yeah, like a a
38:05written apology to the family. They
38:07should definitely do that.
38:08But they're sick. The person's sick, and
38:10they're they definitely need some kind
38:11of help.
38:13Nobody
38:14nobody would say that about a person who
38:16hurts a kid.
38:17>> Kid like death penalty or something.
38:20>> Nobody would say that. No rational
38:21person.
38:23And I mean I've I've done this to my
38:25kids. When my kids were like six or
38:27seven, I went home. You've probably
38:28heard me say this if you've watched a
38:30podcast or two of mine, but
38:32they there was a thing of milk spilled
38:35on the living room floor and I asked
38:36them who did it. They were both like,
38:37"No, I don't know.
38:38It just
38:40just appeared there."
38:41So, I asked my daughter, "What do you
38:43think should happen to the person who
38:44did this?" And she got right away she
38:45goes, "Spankings, grounded, no Xbox,
38:49can't play outside, can't go with my
38:50friends, have to stay in the room and
38:52read all that." I was like, "Okay,
38:52okay." Then I went to my son and said,
38:54"Will,
38:55uh what should happen to the person that
38:57spilled that milk?" And he goes, "Uh
38:59no more chocolate milk in the living
39:00room?"
39:03So, it works equally on adults and and
39:05kids. So, then we move into let's say
39:08I've asked all these there's like 10
39:09questions we ask to see if someone's
39:12probably guilty or probably innocent.
39:14Then we that's an interview.
39:16And the moment that we get through those
39:1710 questions and I think, "Okay, Jack
39:19probably did this." Now we transition
39:21into interrogation. Now that's the
39:23difference.
39:24Interview is let's find out what
39:25happened. Interrogation is this person
39:27might be the one I'm looking for. At
39:30this phase of the interrogation, there's
39:32a whole lot that we we're not covering,
39:34but we get to this part called the
39:35monologue.
39:37And the monologue is designed to offload
39:40and
39:41if anybody's in sales or anybody
39:43listening is in any kind of persuasion
39:45job,
39:46this can be repurposed for anything and
39:49it is massively powerful.
39:51Minimize, rationalize, project,
39:54alternative question. Okay?
39:57So, let's break it down one thing at a
39:58time and I want you just to imagine
40:01hearing this all as one long monologue,
40:04but I'm going to give you paragraph
40:05headers for everything I'm going to say
40:07and you want to go with the 7-Eleven 10
40:0910 grain is missing. So, first step is
40:12socialize.
40:14I'm going to say, "Jack, I got to be
40:15honest with you. I think once people see
40:18what happened and they see all these
40:20circumstances,
40:21that I think everybody's going to
40:22understand why this happened. And I
40:24think it's going to make sense for
40:26anybody who hears your story. It's going
40:27to make perfect sense.
40:29Minimize.
40:30And this is $10,000. I deal with
40:33murderers, I deal with rapists, I deal
40:35with horrible human beings day in and
40:38day out. And when I heard this story,
40:41I knew that you're most likely a really
40:43good person.
40:45And this is not a big deal. People walk
40:48out of this. You're going to walk out of
40:49here in a little bit. This we can
40:51absolutely get through this. I see bad
40:53stuff all the time. This is not a bad
40:55thing.
40:56Let's minimize.
40:58Rationalize.
41:00And if you just look at your life, I
41:02think people are going to understand cuz
41:03anybody in your shoes would have done
41:05the same thing. And it makes perfect
41:06sense because they left the safe open.
41:09Or they didn't pay you enough. Or your
41:11your boss is a just a dick.
41:13And
41:15he was kind of begging you to do this.
41:17They left the safe unlocked. They left
41:18the keys with you overnight. And
41:21now it's um
41:22project.
41:24And
41:26I personally believe that you're a good
41:27person. I don't think this is your
41:28fault.
41:29I think anybody in the same
41:31circumstances, we get circumstances in
41:33our life. And so when those
41:34circumstances line up,
41:36it's easy for us to make an error and
41:39make a mistake.
41:40And I think that you did make a mistake
41:42and
41:43I have to be honest with you.
41:45Um in this folder right here, we're
41:48tracking three different groups that are
41:49involved with human trafficking.
41:52And they're making people steal money.
41:55And I know that your aunt is going
41:57through chemotherapy right now. And I
41:58know she's uh suffering a great deal and
42:01that's very expensive.
42:04What I need to know, Jack, is if you're
42:06involved with this
42:08human trafficking scheme right here.
42:11This is a big deal and we need to talk
42:12about that. But if you've made a mistake
42:15and you're a good person, I think you
42:16were trying to help your aunt pay for
42:18those chemotherapy bills and I think you
42:20did the right thing. But if you're
42:21involved with this, this is a whole
42:23'nother story. If you just made a
42:24mistake and this is a one-time thing,
42:26that's all different and we can get over
42:28that. I'm not here to arrest you. I'm
42:30not here to get you in trouble in any
42:31way. I'm not here to prosecute you. So,
42:34that's the alternative question at the
42:35end. Was it this big, nasty, horrible
42:37thing or did you just make a mistake?
42:40And then at you'll see a little bit of
42:42hep- hesitation in most people. In some
42:45people, those you'll hear them say,
42:46"What happens if I say that I did it?"
42:50And you say, "I can't make you any
42:51promises, but I can promise you that
42:54people are going to understand." And you
42:55kind of just start the monologue over
42:57again and go back.
42:58But I really need to understand if this
43:00is going to human trafficking or you
43:02were maybe trying to help one of your
43:03family members.
43:05And if it is, all I need from you is one
43:07thing.
43:08You don't have to say anything, but I
43:10what I really need from you is a written
43:11statement that says you understand that
43:13this was wrong
43:14and you make a solemn promise to me
43:16right now that you won't do it again.
43:19And in a guilty person's mind, that
43:21sounds like, "Well, I can go if I do
43:23this."
43:24But that's a confession
43:26that I've just got you right down.
43:28So, and that's one of the most common
43:30tricks in police interrogation is, "I
43:33just want you to say that you understand
43:35that's wrong and you promise that you
43:36will not ever do it again."
43:39And you promise that you'll never do it
43:40again in front of a judge.
43:41You say, "Okay."
43:44That's it.
43:45Done.
43:46I
43:46When I say I'm not going to arrest you,
43:49I'm not going to prosecute you, I'm not.
43:50That's the guy standing outside the
43:52room. He's going to do that. I'm just
43:53the interrogator.
43:55So, it is honest and it is uh
43:57forthcoming.
43:58Uh
43:59and it alleviates all of the pressures
44:01and all of the reasons that somebody
44:03might have against a confession. What
44:05are people going to think? This is a
44:06huge deal. It's all my fault. I'm this
44:09is going to go over really badly. And
44:13this is
44:14something I had control over and I and I
44:17shouldn't have done.
44:19So you're taking all of that off of
44:20their plate by saying someone else's
44:22fault, not a big deal.
44:24People are going to understand and it
44:26makes anybody in your shoes would have
44:27done the exact same thing that you did.
44:29And you're kind of smashing that all in
44:31one big paragraph.
44:33>> It's fascinating how effective that
44:35could be. Like the whole priming. It
44:36feels a bit similar to sales like how
44:39high ticket sales calls have gone in my
44:41experience. But
44:44I guess the part I'm curious about is
44:46it's only effective if the person
44:50is guilty or have you ever seen or heard
44:53of cases where people utilize those
44:55types of methods to
44:58get a false confession of someone?
45:00>> You can totally get a false confession
45:02using that.
45:03Um and it's when you misuse those
45:06techniques.
45:07Or
45:08the moment that an interrogator is more
45:10concerned with a confession than the
45:13truth,
45:15you're in dangerous dangerous territory
45:16and that is not an ethical person.
45:19Every interrogator should be truth
45:21first, confession from the truth,
45:23absolutely.
45:24But if they're convinced that 1,000%
45:26this person did it,
45:28and they're saying things like you're
45:29not going to leave this room until we
45:30get the full story. You're not going to
45:32leave this room until I hear why you did
45:34this. I just want to know why.
45:37Um so I'm not asking you to confess to
45:38the crime, I just want to know why you
45:40did it.
45:41Um and you'll hear so much of that kind
45:43of over and over and over again
45:45depriving them of food for a prolonged
45:47period, maybe getting them sleep
45:49deprived and
45:51there are studies published that sleep
45:52deprivation drastically increases
45:55suggestibility. And you can implant
45:58memories and thoughts into people's
45:59heads and that's has proven.
46:01So
46:02at the end of the day
46:04the false confession is not about
46:06technique.
46:08It's about the person using it.
46:10So, a scalpel can
46:13hurt someone or save someone's life.
46:15And it's all about the intent of the
46:17person using it. So, if you have
46:18somebody that's low integrity
46:21or low education, like they haven't been
46:23taught how to avoid a false confession,
46:26and they've
46:27a lot of cops out there do not get
46:29training in interrogation or anything
46:31advanced in interrogation.
46:33And I train police departments in
46:35interrogation.
46:36And
46:39I'm not going to say any department
46:40names, but
46:42I would say 50 to 70% of cops have no
46:46interrogation training. So, the way that
46:48they know how to do an interrogation is
46:50from what they saw on TV,
46:52from Law & Order and and shows like
46:54that.
46:55>> When training these people
46:57the instructions you would give,
46:59theoretically, to get the truth
47:02uh would be the same instructions you
47:04would give to get a false confession?
47:07>> No.
47:08Very different.
47:10There's a whole list of things that make
47:12false confessions happen.
47:13>> And when when I say false confession, I
47:15just want to clarify that I mean, like
47:17you I are trying to
47:20I guess get another scapegoat for a
47:23crime committed, um
47:25like some conspiracy stuff. Like you
47:26want someone to be innocent and you want
47:29some random person to be guilty. Yeah.
47:31>> Yeah, you could use similar techniques,
47:33but you're going to need to
47:36do some unethical things. You cannot
47:38accidentally get a false confession if
47:40you're going for the truth.
47:43If your priority is getting the truth,
47:44you I don't think
47:46you could be
47:47led into a false confession, cuz they'd
47:49start saying stuff
47:51about the crime.
47:53And like
47:54I've seen false confessions where the
47:55person says they used a .22 caliber gun
47:58and it was a 9 mm that killed somebody
48:01and the police coerced them into saying,
48:03"No, no, no, go back in your memory
48:05again. Can you remember that 9 mm? You
48:07remember those 9 mm shell casings? You
48:09remember pushing those down into that
48:10magazine?" So, the moment a person
48:12remembers
48:14something inaccurate about the crime,
48:16that's that's a massive red flag
48:19that they that they've been
48:21uh manipulated.
48:22The The problem is that the person
48:24spotting the red flag is the person that
48:26created the red flag most of the time.
48:28>> I guess you can't speak of uh
48:31specific instances, but uh in your
48:35studies, what's the CIA's most
48:37disturbing experiment?
48:40>> To me?
48:42Um
48:43they had a experiment that they did in
48:46Canada and I am never
48:49So, so many times people are like, "Oh,
48:51well, you must know all about this MK
48:52Ultra project and names and dates and
48:55locations." I'm not a historian. I don't
48:56give a [ __ ]
48:58about 99% of MK Ultra. I I care about
49:01the techniques
49:02and the methods and the protocols and
49:05stuff that were a result of MK Ultra.
49:08I'm not like, "Let me go
49:10fact-check and get everybody's name
49:11right and dates." I don't have any of
49:13that cuz it was never important to me.
49:15But, they did this thing in Canada and
49:17uh
49:18I can't remember the guy's name, but
49:20they
49:21took people coming in for just normal
49:23appointments like, "I have postpartum
49:26depression or
49:27I have anxiety."
49:29And they would like
49:31they would against their will
49:33uh do this thing called psychic driving.
49:37Had nothing to do with
49:39being psychic. It just meant psychic of
49:41the mind.
49:42And they would give them massive
49:45prolonged doses of LSD.
49:48And
49:49in some cases tape their eyes open like
49:52Clockwork Orange and and play these
49:53videos in front of their face all the
49:55time and they thought it was going to
49:56like reprogram their brain somehow. But
49:59it what happened was a lot of the people
50:00had
50:02uh
50:02had to learn how to walk again.
50:05Uh they couldn't control their bladder.
50:07They had to learn how to control their
50:09urine and stuff like that again.
50:11Some of them lost 30, 40 years of
50:14memories from their life.
50:16And these were people who checked into a
50:18clinic for like anxiety.
50:20And this was uh funded by MK Ultra and
50:23it was in Canada.
50:25And it's so well known and it's so open
50:27that even the Canadian government paid
50:30the people's families
50:32who were who just got wrecked because of
50:34this thing. And the other thing they did
50:37um
50:38and there's so much mind warfare stuff
50:40that we could go into, but
50:42they did this thing called Project
50:43Midnight Climax in a brothel.
50:46And these Johns would come in like
50:49they're like, "Well, I want to spend the
50:50night with this hooker."
50:52They take him the hooker's taken him up
50:53to a hotel room. They drug these dudes
50:56with high doses of LSD.
50:59And
51:00there are mirrors in these hotel rooms
51:02with dudes watching.
51:05Like behind a mirror in the hotel room,
51:07there's scientists watching this stuff
51:09and watching what takes place.
51:12That is the most bizarre and weird thing
51:14I've ever
51:15ever even heard of. They could
51:16experiment with LSD on a lot of people.
51:19Then they they did it with soldiers and
51:22the British Royal Air Force did this
51:24with uh or British Army
51:26did this with LSD. And LSD was just like
51:29the rave of the time cuz the CIA thought
51:32it might be this miracle mind control
51:35drug because these videos were coming
51:37back from the Korean War of these
51:38Americans getting brainwashed and stuff.
51:40So they're like, "There is something
51:42happening to these Americans that we
51:44don't have the technology to do."
51:46So it was a it was a psychological arms
51:48race.
51:49Or so we thought it was. It was just
51:51basic stuff. It was like
51:53very basic brainwashing stuff.
51:56>> What were the results of that midnight
51:58uh
51:59>> Nobody knows.
52:00>> No?
52:01>> Nobody knows.
52:02Yeah, I think it was just studying the
52:03uh
52:04effects of LSD
52:06and the effects of what they call
52:08interrogative suggestibility. So,
52:11can I make you confess to stuff? Can I
52:13get intelligence out of you if you're a
52:16captured asset of some kind.
52:18>> Mhm.
52:18>> And
52:20I don't think they they published
52:21anything afterwards, like some
52:22after-action report or anything.
52:25>> That was an interesting time period. Uh
52:27I won't go into this too much, but have
52:29you heard Did you know they were testing
52:30like LSD in dolphins in the '70s? And do
52:34you know why they had to stop doing
52:35that?
52:36>> No.
52:37>> It was because Robbie, do you remember
52:38this?
52:39>> Yeah, it was uh one of the female
52:41scientist uh
52:43was having sex with a dolphin named
52:44Peter. Uh and the dolphin ended up like
52:47getting depressed because she was taken
52:49off the project and then he like took
52:52his own life. Uh and that's why they
52:53stopped running LSD on dolphins.
52:55>> He killed himself?
52:56>> Yeah.
52:56>> How?
52:57>> I don't remember.
52:58>> Holy smokes.
52:59>> But yeah, we covered this a while back.
53:01I just made me think of that. But um
53:03>> Wow.
53:04>> On hypnosis,
53:06would you say you're one of the best
53:07hypnotherapist you've come across?
53:10>> No idea. I don't do therapy.
53:12Um
53:13I I don't know if but I don't know a lot
53:15of other hypnotists. I haven't tested
53:17their skill levels. I have the number
53:19one best-selling book in hypnosis.
53:21>> Mhm.
53:21>> Um for 5 years straight, I think.
53:24On and off.
53:25>> What can you not hypnotize someone to
53:27do?
53:29>> There's no limit.
53:31>> Um can you hypnotize me right now?
53:33>> Yeah.
53:35>> Okay.
53:36>> [laughter]
53:37>> Uh anyone listening, we have to do these
53:39legal disclaimers of if you're driving a
53:41car, if you're operating machinery,
53:42you've got to
53:43pause or turn the tape off or what not
53:46tape, but uh stop the video. They would
53:49have to do it.
53:50Let's go into the science of it first if
53:51you want to Yeah. and how it works.
53:54>> [snorts]
53:54>> So, the first like 7 8 years of our
53:56life, our brains are spending most of
53:58their time
54:00in this brainwave state called theta.
54:03And theta is kind of like a deep
54:05meditation and relaxation.
54:07And it makes us way more ready to absorb
54:12data and absorb information. And that's
54:15how we learn language so fast, we learn
54:17to walk so fast, and all these amazing
54:20insights are coming to us as as little
54:22kids cuz we're in theta state so much.
54:25And hypnosis is a way that gets our
54:28brain back into that theta brainwave
54:31state.
54:32And it does it by a few ways. We're
54:35relaxing the physiology of the body,
54:37which is not always necessary, but it
54:38definitely helps.
54:40And when your body relaxes your and your
54:42brain is relaxed, it releases this
54:44neurotransmitter called GABA, which is
54:46gamma-aminobutyric acid.
54:49And it is the brain's
54:52calming down mechanism. It's called an
54:54inhibitory neurotransmitter. So, it
54:56tells everybody to like hey, let's let's
54:58calm it down. Don't need to worry about
55:00things. It's the safety chemical is
55:02essentially what it is.
55:04So, if you're with a
55:05uh hypnotist,
55:07there is
55:09a way that they speak in a certain way
55:10that relaxes the body and relaxes the
55:12mind and then obtains a whole lot of
55:15focus. And that's kind of what hypnosis
55:16is.
55:17Theta wave brain state plus focus plus a
55:20desire or some expectation that
55:22something positive is going to happen.
55:25And most hypnotists will tell you you
55:27can't be made to do something that you
55:29normally wouldn't do. You can't You
55:30can't be made to do something against
55:31your will. That's not true.
55:34That is absolutely not true.
55:36You can be made to do a lot. So, like I
55:37think it's important There was just a
55:39case in in Washington state where
55:42a hypnotist was or no, he was an
55:45attorney.
55:46Have you heard about this?
55:47>> Mhm.
55:48>> He was a lawyer and he had this female
55:49client who was going through I think
55:51going through divorce.
55:53And he would hypnotize her in his office
55:55to like say, "Oh, I'm going to help you
55:56relax. I'm going to help you
55:58you know, get rid of some of these
55:59negative beliefs."
56:01And he was
56:03sexually assaulting her.
56:05Under hypnosis in his office.
56:07And she was taking her clothes off and
56:09all this stuff.
56:11Um
56:12and I've heard a few hypnotists say,
56:14"Well, she she must have would have done
56:16that in her normal everyday life. Or she
56:19wouldn't have have done that."
56:21But I want you to understand that if I
56:23can change context, I can get you to do
56:26anything.
56:28It's like
56:29you're not thinking about killing me.
56:30It's not something that you would think
56:32about doing.
56:33But if you genuinely believed that I was
56:35coming at you with a knife and you had a
56:37gun,
56:38I've modified the context and now it's
56:40okay.
56:41So, your permission in your brain of
56:43like, "I can't kill this person. I'm not
56:45thinking about it." Everything radically
56:47changes, right? So,
56:49if I can if if this lawyer, I don't know
56:51how he did it, but
56:53this lawyer who's doing the sexual
56:55assault modifies the context and
56:57saying like, "Well,
56:59you're probably going to get naked
57:00today, but not here in the studio, but
57:03probably when you take a shower. You're
57:04going to get naked."
57:06So, if I change I hypnotize you and then
57:08change the context to you just getting
57:09home from work
57:11and putting your keys on the entry
57:13table, putting your wallet down there,
57:14walking into the bathroom, turning on
57:16that nice hot shower, feeling that
57:17steam, and that then it's time
57:20to strip down and get in the shower.
57:22I I I didn't modify anything about what
57:26you normally do, what you're doing
57:27against your will. All I did was change
57:29context.
57:31So, if a person can change and
57:32manipulate context, which we're seeing
57:34in politics right now,
57:36if you look very closely, everything
57:37that's going on with manipulation is
57:39about three things, and it's PCP.
57:42So, I modify your perception, which
57:44allows me to shift the context, which
57:46changes permission.
57:48Perception, context, and permission.
57:50Everything is about that. So, always be
57:52on the lookout for how your perception
57:54is being modified, because the next
57:56thing that they will change is the
57:57context.
57:59The context enables you to do things
58:01that you would have never otherwise
58:02done, like throwing a Molotov cocktail
58:04through a
58:05uh
58:06a Target store window here in LA.
58:09So, it's always perception, context, and
58:11then permission.
58:13But, the thing is, like, when something
58:16is extremely good and capable of helping
58:18people,
58:19uh we might be able to use that same
58:21technology to do something bad and to
58:24hurt people.
58:25Um so, it's a kind of a double-edged
58:27sword, and and that's
58:28>> Could you hypnotize me to murder
58:31someone?
58:32>> Absolutely.
58:33>> And how long would that take?
58:34>> 40 minutes.
58:36>> And that's like, you think anyone you
58:38could do?
58:40Or is it just because I'm slightly more
58:41susceptible?
58:43>> So, there would be time.
58:45Um
58:46let's talk about that. Unpack that a
58:48little bit. So, some of that is about
58:49suggestibility.
58:51Suggestibility is
58:53by so many psychologists and scientists
58:56referred to
58:57as this thing that's like a a solid
58:59state. This person's highly suggestible,
59:01this person's medium suggestible, this
59:03person's low.
59:04It is very much context dependent. So,
59:07your suggestibility is also a measure of
59:10my level of authority, my confidence,
59:12and what you think about me.
59:14So, we could take a a suggestible
59:17person,
59:18and you say, "Oh, I'm prone to go into
59:20hypnosis, so I go in easily." Well, what
59:21if a third grader did it?
59:24It's context, right? So,
59:26your suggestibility is based on context
59:29again, context.
59:31So, if I have a lower suggestible
59:33person, I need to modify that person's
59:35level of suggestibility,
59:37like their level of trust, their level
59:39of openness, their level of focus on the
59:41conversation, and their level of
59:43expectancy. Do I expect something
59:45generally positive to come from this?
59:47I'm going to make myself more
59:48suggestible because I'm getting more
59:49excited about the outcome that's going
59:51to come from the hypnosis.
59:53Does that make sense? Okay.
59:55So, those are the six thing the six
59:57factors that determine success with
59:59hypnosis, focus, openness, connection,
1:00:02suggestibility, compliance, and
1:00:03expectancy. Those six things, and you
1:00:06only need three of those to make a
1:00:08murderer.
1:00:10Just three.
1:00:12If you look at the Milgram experiment,
1:00:14there was no openness,
1:00:15there was no connection, and there was
1:00:17no expectancy. They had no idea what was
1:00:20happening next, what was going to come
1:00:21next.
1:00:22They just had uh focus, suggestibility,
1:00:24and compliance. And they made murderers
1:00:27in less than an hour, and they did it
1:00:28with no hypnosis.
1:00:31Zero hypnosis. No techniques, no
1:00:33linguistics. It was just authority and
1:00:36novelty, something new. I'm in a
1:00:38building I've never been in in front of
1:00:39this machine I've never seen with this
1:00:41dude in a lab coat that I've never met
1:00:43before. Everything was novel, and we
1:00:46know novelty generates a tremendous
1:00:47amount of focus inside of our brain.
1:00:50So,
1:00:51when you're hypnotizing somebody to do
1:00:54something like that,
1:00:56you can modify two different types of
1:00:58context.
1:00:59First context is it's a life or death
1:01:02scenario where you need to shoot
1:01:03somebody. The second context is you see
1:01:06that gun that you're holding as a water
1:01:07gun or something that's absolutely
1:01:10harmless.
1:01:11So, those are the two ways we can modify
1:01:13context.
1:01:15And there's a guy named George
1:01:16Estabrooks who
1:01:18I think was kind of the pioneer in doing
1:01:20this
1:01:22hypnosis for things that may not be in
1:01:24your best interest. And George
1:01:26Estabrooks the professor at Colgate
1:01:28University.
1:01:29And he had these documents called Super
1:01:31Spy
1:01:33where it talked about how to split a
1:01:34personality and how to
1:01:37program spies to carry secrets in these
1:01:40like
1:01:41partitioned
1:01:43so to speak parts of their brain that
1:01:45even if they were interrogated and
1:01:47captured they couldn't access until they
1:01:49received some kind of code word across
1:01:51the across the enemy lines.
1:01:54These are MK Ultra documents that were
1:01:56inside of George Estabrooks attic
1:01:59and never got destroyed
1:02:01uh
1:02:02that the CIA told them to destroy it.
1:02:03They're not even on the internet.
1:02:05Uh I have and I will put them for you if
1:02:07you want to throw them in the show
1:02:08notes. And these are brand new. This is
1:02:10not like something you type in MK Ultra
1:02:11and you get get access to these
1:02:13documents.
1:02:14So it goes to this little formula to
1:02:15make this
1:02:17super soldier and then super spy.
1:02:20And he was one of these pioneers. These
1:02:22are letters between him and J. Edgar
1:02:24Hoover and him and a lot of these famous
1:02:26hypnotists hypnotherapists and
1:02:28psychiatrists back then.
1:02:30And he was a uh psychiatrist as well.
1:02:34So Estabrooks had these systems
1:02:37developed and they're overall they
1:02:38developed an entire plan
1:02:41to hypnotize this German uh submarine
1:02:43captain and send him back to his harbor
1:02:47in Germany and have him torpedo the
1:02:50entire German fleet
1:02:52with a split personality.
1:02:55Uh
1:02:56as I know that plan
1:02:58never went through uh never
1:03:01came to fruition but
1:03:02the all of the steps of this plan were
1:03:04in there. And it's all about those six
1:03:07things I talked about. And can I get
1:03:09enough expectancy, focus, open openness,
1:03:12connection
1:03:13and compliance and suggestibility.
1:03:16And if I can level up six of those,
1:03:20I can do anything I want.
1:03:22If you just look at the Milgram
1:03:23experiment, it was only three.
1:03:25If you have all six,
1:03:27uh you can literally do whatever you
1:03:29want. And this these are like cult
1:03:31leader
1:03:32things. Like if I have you captive and
1:03:34I'm
1:03:35making you do stuff all the time, you're
1:03:36conforming to the tribe, and there's
1:03:39tons of authority, and your emotions are
1:03:41being messed with, so I have your
1:03:43mammalian brain captured.
1:03:45And then around there, we have all of
1:03:47those six things, which is what
1:03:48influences the human brain.
1:03:50If I have those six, I can do whatever I
1:03:51want. Anything I can get you to do
1:03:53anything I want. I don't need hypnosis.
1:03:55I don't need anything else.
1:03:57I just need those six things. And if you
1:03:59look at what Manson did,
1:04:01he was
1:04:02obviously trained by the CIA. I mean,
1:04:05that's
1:04:06it's kind of obvious now.
1:04:08Um this guy named Jolly West was I think
1:04:11heavily involved in this stuff.
1:04:13But like Manson told a a librarian
1:04:17to go kill a pregnant person.
1:04:21Which is bizarre. Especially a woman
1:04:24killing a woman who's pregnant is almost
1:04:27unheard of.
1:04:28It's like all of us every human being
1:04:30has this innate
1:04:32uh
1:04:33desire to protect pregnant people. It's
1:04:36innate. And it's I think it's built into
1:04:38everybody.
1:04:40To override that, you would have to have
1:04:42all four of that mammalian brain control
1:04:45and then all six of the human brain
1:04:46control with all six of those elements.
1:04:48>> Can you hypnotize someone to like do
1:04:49something they can't normally do? Like
1:04:51uh physically lift more weight than they
1:04:53can,
1:04:54uh jump higher than they can, that kind
1:04:56of thing?
1:04:57>> Absolutely.
1:04:59Uh what you're really you're not
1:05:00modifying ability, you're modifying uh
1:05:04perception of limitation.
1:05:07So, I've done this with many different
1:05:09UFC fighters and and boxers
1:05:12where we hypnotize them not to get
1:05:14gassed out and to not really feel a lot
1:05:16of pain during the fight. And it has
1:05:19worked absolutely.
1:05:21You can I mean you can watch it on
1:05:22YouTube. You can watch the fights the
1:05:24the guys that I've worked with.
1:05:26And it's like you're looking at a human
1:05:27terminator. They don't make facial
1:05:29expressions.
1:05:30You're not seeing them
1:05:32like heaving in the corner during these
1:05:34uh breaks in between rounds. You can
1:05:37absolutely do that.
1:05:39>> What's I guess what's something you're
1:05:40surprised you can do or people on stage
1:05:42are surprised that you can do?
1:05:44>> I don't know. I've never used hypnosis
1:05:46as like a demo in my life, not even
1:05:48once. Oh. Well, maybe like in a bar or
1:05:50something like that.
1:05:51>> you do in the bar?
1:05:53>> Um mostly like
1:05:55and like I could teach you to do this in
1:05:565 minutes.
1:05:58But it looks dramatic. So, no one cares
1:06:00about any degree that I have or anything
1:06:01like that or any books I've written. But
1:06:03you could do this one thing in a bar
1:06:05that where like
1:06:06you just have someone lay on the ground.
1:06:08And it looks dramatic. So, like you tell
1:06:10them to go down and they just
1:06:13you you kind of guide them down on the
1:06:14ground and just kind of leave them
1:06:15there.
1:06:16And people are like, "Oh my god, this is
1:06:18like a magical power." Like I could
1:06:19teach you how to do that in 5 minutes.
1:06:21It's not hard.
1:06:22>> How fast could you make me uh or could
1:06:25you try to make me like fall asleep in
1:06:26this chair just like all the way? Is
1:06:28that possible?
1:06:29>> easily.
1:06:30>> Yeah. Do you want to go through it?
1:06:31>> Yeah.
1:06:33Uh any uh special thing that you would
1:06:34like as an outcome of this? More
1:06:36confidence, more discipline?
1:06:38Uh
1:06:39What would What would you prefer?
1:06:41>> More focus.
1:06:44>> A lot more focus. All right, so.
1:06:46I have a I have an innate
1:06:49desire to explain everything that I'm
1:06:51doing as I'm doing it, but I'm just
1:06:52going to go ahead and do it without any
1:06:53explanation.
1:06:54>> Beautiful.
1:06:54>> All right, so go ahead and put both your
1:06:55feet flat on the ground.
1:06:58And just let your legs relax.
1:07:01And now I want you Every breath that
1:07:02you're taking, I want you to imagine
1:07:03that your lungs almost go all the way to
1:07:05the bottom of your feet, like you're
1:07:06trying to fill up your legs with that
1:07:08air that you're breathing in. That's
1:07:10great.
1:07:11And just continue those just deep deep
1:07:13breaths and all I want you to do is
1:07:14imagine every one of those tiny muscles
1:07:16around your eyes completely
1:07:18finally getting your permission to just
1:07:21let go.
1:07:23And then just the skin on the back of
1:07:25your neck, if you can just picture that
1:07:28what that would feel like if that skin
1:07:29could finally just release and unwind.
1:07:33And letting every piece of that stuff go
1:07:35and knowing that the deeper that you're
1:07:37allowing yourself to go now,
1:07:39the better it feels and the better it
1:07:40feels the more you're going to accept
1:07:42this suggestion for increased focus in
1:07:44your life and it's going to get even
1:07:45better.
1:07:47And the more
1:07:48those breaths continue to just breathe
1:07:50themselves, the more the skin around the
1:07:52entire body can completely let go and
1:07:54just feeling
1:07:55even those muscles running alongside the
1:07:57left and right side of your spine
1:07:59finally getting your permission to just
1:08:03let go.
1:08:05And letting everything go.
1:08:08And when you're ready,
1:08:10allowing the eyes close only when you're
1:08:12ready to go completely down
1:08:14and letting that head just relax and go
1:08:17into a natural place of just absolute
1:08:19letting go. And all those muscles just
1:08:22completely unraveling
1:08:24letting your mind wander wherever it
1:08:26wants to go and just letting my voice be
1:08:27right there where it is in the center of
1:08:30your mind.
1:08:31You can just
1:08:32sleep all the way down. Even deeper than
1:08:36before letting that neck completely
1:08:37relax.
1:08:39All the way back.
1:08:41Noticing that as you continue those
1:08:43breaths, the deeper you go, your body
1:08:46continues to go deeper and deeper than
1:08:48ever before. Every muscle relaxing,
1:08:50releasing, and completely letting go.
1:08:53Allowing that part of your mind that
1:08:54doesn't need to be here to drift
1:08:56wherever it needs to go.
1:08:59And knowing that every time you touch
1:09:01any doorknob or any handle to open any
1:09:04door, you'll be reminded of the
1:09:05following suggestion that every single
1:09:08day of your life your level of focus on
1:09:10what's important will continue to
1:09:11increase.
1:09:12Your level of absolute drive and focus
1:09:15on the most important things will be
1:09:17unshakable, more focused than any time
1:09:20in your life. Every time you touch a
1:09:22doorknob or any device to open a door,
1:09:25your brain will automatically completely
1:09:27recall and make even more powerful the
1:09:30suggestion that you're receiving right
1:09:31in the center of your mind right now.
1:09:33You allow all of that part of your brain
1:09:36to absorb everything right where I am
1:09:38right here in the center of your mind
1:09:40letting all those muscles completely
1:09:41relax, release, and let go.
1:09:48And now in a moment I'm going to count
1:09:49from one to five to bring you right back
1:09:50here to the room.
1:09:52And with each number increasing, letting
1:09:55that suggestion sit deeper and deeper
1:09:57and more permanent and only allowing the
1:09:59eyes to open as that suggestion becomes
1:10:01absolutely permanent in your mind. One,
1:10:04getting more aware of just the sounds in
1:10:06the room again. Two, a little more aware
1:10:09of that chair underneath your legs and
1:10:11the weight of your feet on the floor.
1:10:13Three,
1:10:14back to hearing my voice off to the left
1:10:16side of your head right now. And five,
1:10:19letting everything become more and more
1:10:20permanent as you come right back to this
1:10:22room.
1:10:27>> Oh, man.
1:10:31I will say guys, that's very impressive
1:10:33considering he didn't have much time
1:10:35with me to even start on it.
1:10:37Gosh.
1:10:38>> [sighs]
1:10:39>> So, it's
1:10:40I know the words that you need to hear
1:10:42though.
1:10:43>> Yeah.
1:10:43>> I know I've spent two hours with you now
1:10:45and I know every word that causes your
1:10:47blink rate to go down.
1:10:49>> That's impressive. Um
1:10:52Well, we only have a few minutes left.
1:10:54Let's take a look at the notepad to see
1:10:56what the predictions were originally. Uh
1:10:58uh
1:10:58>> You don't have to read them out loud.
1:11:00I would read them to yourself first.
1:11:02Can you explain the second one to me? Or
1:11:05maybe I'm I don't know what it says.
1:11:06>> Getting the writing wrong.
1:11:10>> You want to read it?
1:11:11>> You can read it. That's fine.
1:11:13>> Uh frequently ruminating on what could
1:11:16have been said or communicating
1:11:18differently or
1:11:20wishing you had communicated
1:11:21differently.
1:11:22>> Yeah, I would I would say nailed it on
1:11:24those. I mean, I'll say them to the
1:11:25audience for uh
1:11:27for fun. Uh the the first one was uh
1:11:29deeply worried about how you're being
1:11:31perceived to the point it interferes
1:11:32with your life.
1:11:34Uh
1:11:35And the last one was using constant
1:11:37exposure to sound, voice, video when
1:11:40alone to avoid
1:11:42more deep
1:11:43/ penetrating thoughts that interfere
1:11:45with self-concept and self-confidence.
1:11:47Uncertainty about the world. Yeah, these
1:11:49are really good. I one other guest that
1:11:52had interviewed like hundreds and
1:11:53hundreds of people said that to me. Um
1:11:56like on one of my first podcasts, he's
1:11:57like, "You were so particular in your
1:12:00movements. Uh
1:12:01I'm like like worried about perception."
1:12:03That's fascinating. Just from
1:12:05I I'm just
1:12:07like it makes sense that you would
1:12:08realize that by now, but I'm pretty
1:12:09impressed in hindsight that that was
1:12:12briefly after knowing each other.
1:12:13>> I did I did write a book called
1:12:15Six-Minute X-Ray.
1:12:16Uh how to develop a full behavior
1:12:18profile in 6 minutes.
1:12:19>> I wanted to ask about that, but guys, we
1:12:21do not have much time, unfortunately. Um
1:12:25A question I ask uh every guest and you
1:12:28take your time on this. Uh
1:12:30What's the best piece of advice you've
1:12:32ever received?
1:12:35>> This is going to be corny, uh but I
1:12:37think it's the most powerful thing in
1:12:39the world. If you read
1:12:41every ancient text
1:12:42uh
1:12:43whatever religion, the Nag Hammadi, the
1:12:45Torah, the Bhagavad Gita
1:12:47uh whatever you read.
1:12:49The most common phrase, including the
1:12:52Bible, the New Testament, the Old
1:12:53Testament, even the forbidden books of
1:12:55the Bible like um
1:12:58the book of Timothy.
1:13:00Uh or and Thomas and uh Judas. Um
1:13:05the most common phrase ever repeated in
1:13:07all of those texts. You know what it is?
1:13:10Do not fear.
1:13:12In every single ancient religious text
1:13:14is fear not or do not fear or some
1:13:17variation of that.
1:13:18Funny enough, the King James version of
1:13:21the Bible says do not fear 365 times.
1:13:25And I think that's our biggest problem
1:13:28in life is like getting to
1:13:30Fear is the opposite of love.
1:13:33And every spiritual teaching, you know,
1:13:35that so almost all spiritual teachings
1:13:37teach that we only really have two basic
1:13:39emotions as humans. We have love and we
1:13:41have fear.
1:13:42And I think
1:13:44having a good life is getting out of
1:13:45that fear area and getting into like how
1:13:48can I just be open-hearted all the time
1:13:50and just loving what's going on and be
1:13:53more in the love part.
1:13:55So the best advice I ever got was from
1:13:57ancient religious texts.
1:13:59>> Every religion ever.
1:14:00>> Yeah.
1:14:01>> That's a good one. Well, everyone, this
1:14:02has been the Jack Neal podcast. This is
1:14:05your guest, Chase Hughes.
1:14:08Thanks for coming on, man. Uh where can
1:14:10people find you?
1:14:11>> Uh you can just go to my system. You can
1:14:13go to my YouTube channel. It's just just
1:14:15under Chase Hughes or our website for
1:14:17all the training and stuff is called NCI
1:14:19dot university.
1:14:21>> Awesome.
1:14:22>> Thanks, you guys.
1:14:24>> Nice to meet you, man.

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