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Madeleine McCann Parents Full Interview Piers Morgan 2011 www.findingmadeleine.com — Transcript

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0:00Hey, Gerry. Thank you for sitting down
0:02with me. Today is the eighth birthday
0:05Madeleine would have enjoyed had she
0:07been with you. We still have no idea
0:09where Madeleine may be or what's
0:11happened to her.
0:13You've written a book, Kate,
0:15about your experiences. It's based on
0:17diaries that you wrote from a few weeks
0:19after she she'd vanished. Why have you
0:21done the book?
0:24I suppose my reason for writing writing
0:27it all down is quite different to the
0:28reason to publish it as a book.
0:31And initially when I started to keep my
0:33diaries,
0:34it was really so that Madeleine would
0:37have an account. So,
0:39when we found her, I'd be able to fill
0:40in the gaps.
0:41And also Sean and Amelie as well for
0:43when they were older.
0:45And then going back to sort of 2008, I
0:48actually filled in the gaps before I'd
0:50started keeping my diaries. So, a little
0:52bit about me and Gerry and our
0:53backgrounds. And again, that was all
0:55just for the kids.
0:59I suppose there's always been the urge
1:00to to get the truth out there.
1:02Obviously, when there's been so many
1:03stories written, but we've always had
1:05things to weigh up. I mean, ultimately,
1:08Madeleine's fund was running out.
1:10And I knew that we'd need to raise money
1:11really to continue the search.
1:13So, all the money from this book is
1:14going to go to the to the Madeleine
1:16fund.
1:17It is, yeah. And so that you can
1:18continue to try and find out what
1:20happened to her. That's right. Gerry,
1:22obviously,
1:23that is the crux of this, isn't it, for
1:25you?
1:26You just don't know. I mean, I'm a
1:28father of three children and I cannot
1:30imagine I can remember my kids
1:32disappearing for a minute or two minutes
1:34and that awful panic that you feel as a
1:37parent when that happens.
1:39To be here years later and have no idea
1:42where she is or what may have happened,
1:45it must be
1:46it must be excruciating, isn't it?
1:49It certainly was.
1:51And I think one of the reasons we've had
1:54so much public sympathy and empathy is I
1:56think every parent does know that
1:58feeling when your child is out of sight
2:00even for a few seconds and the panic it
2:02generates and
2:04obviously for any family like ourselves
2:06whose child has been abducted, it is the
2:09most terrifying experience.
2:11Um
2:13but you do adapt and um
2:15the pain is not as raw.
2:18But, you know, we we do still manage to
2:21get some enjoyment in our life and we've
2:23got two other beautiful children who are
2:25fantastic. And
2:27the support we've had from the public
2:29has really helped carry us through, but
2:31there's just always something inside and
2:34the pain is never too far away from the
2:36surface. And Kate, do you ever have a
2:38day where this doesn't consume you?
2:43I don't think it consumes every minute
2:45as it did before, but certainly, you
2:48know, Madeleine's absence is there
2:50constantly. I mean, as Gerry said,
2:52although
2:53we do have lovely times with Sean and
2:54Amelie and although I've now reached
2:56that point where I will allow myself to
2:58take time out and just relax or enjoy
3:01something.
3:04You know, her absence is still tangible.
3:06And we can have a lovely family day, but
3:08as Sean will point out, it's not really
3:09a family day, Mommy, cuz Madeleine's not
3:12here.
3:13You know, Have you considered having
3:15another baby? Has it even entered your
3:17thought process?
3:19No. I mean,
3:21I think you probably know obviously our
3:22three children were born with the help
3:24of IVF.
3:26Um
3:27So, it wouldn't it wouldn't exactly be
3:29straightforward anyway,
3:31but
3:32you know, can't replace Madeleine. And I
3:34know I know you're not suggesting that,
3:36but um
3:37I don't know. I think all the the grief
3:40that we've been through and the busyness
3:42of everything
3:43um and obviously we've got, you know,
3:45Sean and Amelie that we need to
3:46concentrate on.
3:48Do you both 100% believe she's still
3:51alive or do you have to believe that?
3:55I don't think I I don't think we can say
3:57100%. I mean, you know, we're realistic.
4:00You know, there's a chance that she may
4:01not be alive, but what we do know is
4:03there's a very good chance that she is
4:04alive and there's certainly nothing to
4:06suggest otherwise.
4:08And I as you know as well, there's many
4:09children who are found years down the
4:11line.
4:12And they could have been written off,
4:14you know, and then they were found. So,
4:17it would be wrong.
4:19You know, it is wrong to give up on
4:20children who are still missing. I mean,
4:22what is so strange about this story, and
4:24I remember living through it here in in
4:26England at the time,
4:28is there's just no evidence
4:31of anything. She just vanished.
4:34Actually,
4:35I mean, there was a man seen carrying
4:37But but we don't know who he was. We
4:39don't even know if that was Madeleine.
4:40It could have been anybody. I mean, We
4:42don't, but nobody came forward to
4:44eliminate themselves. And obviously, the
4:45timing of it,
4:47you know, So, you you believe from all
4:49that you know that that shadowy figure
4:51that was seen with a young child was
4:54probably the abduction taking place.
4:57Is that what you think? We Yeah,
4:58completely. And I think, you know,
5:00another thing aspect about the book that
5:02I strongly believe a good reason for
5:04publishing it is putting these facts
5:06together about sighting of the man
5:08carrying the child and the detail of
5:10that as seen by our friend Jane Tanner.
5:12Jane hadn't seen him. She literally
5:14would have been plucked from thin air,
5:16but there's another sighting which Kate
5:18describes in the book that occurred
5:20about 45 minutes later when an Irish
5:22family gave an almost identical
5:25description of the man and the child
5:28independently of Jane's. It wasn't in
5:30the public domain.
5:31Let's get back to what happened. You
5:33were on holiday in Portugal. You were at
5:36a child-friendly resort.
5:38And at about 7:30, you were putting your
5:42kids to bed. You had the two
5:44two-year-olds and you had Madeleine who
5:46was four.
5:47Tell me what happened. Gerry, maybe you
5:49start.
5:50Well, essentially, we've always had a
5:53routine where the kids, the twins
5:54usually went to bed about 7:00 and
5:56Madeleine used to have a a little bit
5:58extra time. This was at home as well.
6:00I'd played tennis that evening and Kate
6:02had
6:03got the kids ready. So, when I came
6:05back, um
6:07we pretty much took them into the
6:09bedroom, read them a story and tucked
6:12them into their cots for the twins and
6:14Madeleine into bed. And we'd arranged to
6:18have dinner with our friends. We were
6:19literally dining
6:22um in the tapas area which
6:25was adjacent to apartment as a crow
6:26flies. It's only about 50 m away.
6:29Um which we'd done the four previous
6:31nights as well, coming back and forward
6:33to check the children.
6:34this this remains one of the highly
6:36contentious parts of this because you're
6:38both professional medical people and
6:42you've got three very young children.
6:44And I know that you've expressed regret
6:46over this. I'm not after more of that.
6:48It would be completely pointless.
6:50In terms of the the normal practice so
6:52when you were with them, would you ever
6:54have left them alone in that situation
6:57if you'd been at home, for example, back
6:58in England?
7:00Definitely not. I mean, the closest
7:02thing that you would do to that and it
7:04didn't feel that different would be
7:05dining in your garden. I mean, I mean,
7:07Kate, as as a mother here, you must live
7:11through that all the time and beat
7:13yourself up over about it. I've I've
7:15seen you do that and I've heard you do
7:17that. And my heart goes out to you
7:19because there's not a parent I know that
7:21hasn't mislaid a child at some stage.
7:24All I can say is I mean, if I'd have
7:25thought there was any risk at all, you
7:27know, it just wouldn't have happened.
7:29And that's all I can say really, you
7:31know. And it's hard to, you know,
7:33sometimes I think at home when I was
7:35going to the post office and I had the
7:37the twins in the double buggy because it
7:39wouldn't fit through the post office
7:40door, I used to get my aunt to come and
7:42meet me and just stand by the door even
7:44though it was a tiny post office and I
7:45can see the buggy. So, then I think how
7:47does that equate with sort of how how we
7:50act in Portugal.
7:52And all I can say is it just felt so
7:54safe, you know. It was a family-friendly
7:56resort. It's the first time I'd ever
7:57been to Portugal, but all the family and
7:59friends I knew that had been there said
8:01it's, you know, it's a lovely country
8:02and it's really safe and
8:04for families. I mean, Gerry, I mean, a
8:07difficult question, but obviously, the
8:09resort you were in had lots of nanny
8:11facilities and they weren't that
8:13expensive to use and you both were
8:15professionals earning money. Another
8:17criticism that's put to you is why
8:20didn't you just pay to have a a nanny if
8:21you wanted to go out for dinner?
8:22I mean, it's not a question of money. We
8:24did what we thought was best in the
8:26kids' routines. And I think as parents,
8:30um we were we had a very good routine in
8:32terms of the whole bath, bed, story type
8:35thing. And and I take your point, but
8:37for me, you know, if your children are
8:39asleep upstairs in a bedroom and you're
8:41dining in the garden, you're out of
8:43sight and you can't hear them.
8:45Um and that's the similar thing to me.
8:47We were I guess that I guess that most
8:48people's homes are secure. Sure. You
8:51know, this was not a secure property.
8:53People could come in and off the street
8:55if they wanted to. That that's where the
8:57criticism, I guess, comes that it's most
9:00fierce towards you is, you know, you're
9:02intelligent people and you were
9:04certainly good parents. There's no one's
9:06questioning that from all accounts that
9:07we've all heard. It's just when you have
9:09people coming in and off the street like
9:11that and it's not your home and it's not
9:13really secure.
9:16Again, I mean, I think it that it's back
9:18to the safety issue. We did not perceive
9:21an element of threat. And
9:24child abduction is so rare, why would
9:25you have ever have thought that someone
9:28was going to get into an apartment and
9:29steal your child? It just didn't enter
9:31our head. If it had of, it wouldn't have
9:33happened.
9:34And
9:34questions day in day out. Why? How? Why?
9:38And I can only, you know, say to myself,
9:41well, Kate, you felt really safe. And I
9:42know how much I love my children and
9:44there's no way I'd have taken a risk.
9:46I think the worst thing though about the
9:48focus on our behavior and, you know, if
9:51we could change it, we would have. We
9:53can't change it, but it takes the focus
9:55away from the doctor and that becomes
9:59quite frustrating for us because
10:02Madeleine's still missing and the those
10:05that person or those responsible for
10:06taking her are still at large. Here's an
10:09you know that's what
10:10Somebody somewhere knows what's happened
10:12and that must eat you up much more than
10:15you know
10:16fireside critics saying you should have
10:19done this that and the other. You know
10:20it's not like a double
10:22you know a double punishment. You know
10:24we have expressed our regret. It doesn't
10:27change it you know and what we've
10:29tried to focus on from day one is what
10:32can we do to find Madeleine and those
10:33responsible and
10:35you know if we could go back and jump in
10:37the Tardis
10:39we would be there.
10:41I mean there's no one more than us that
10:42would want to
10:43change what we did that night obviously
10:45you know. Do you have a lot of regret
10:47now looking back on it obviously not
10:49just because Madeleine went but do you
10:51think with hindsight
10:53you should have done more to protect
10:55them?
10:55Do you feel that?
10:57Well obviously because of what's
10:58happened you know and I can beat myself
11:00up every day but I can't change it now.
11:02I have to
11:03go forward and see what I can do now.
11:06You have to be careful as well because I
11:08think
11:09you know almost certainly if we had been
11:12dining on the balcony of the apartment
11:15this would not have happened and I'm
11:16absolutely clear about that but child
11:18abductions do happen when parents are
11:20with their children. People are stolen
11:22at resorts and in parks and
11:25there was a case in the UK a few years
11:27ago where a little child a 6-year-old
11:29girl I think was stolen out of bath
11:31while her parents were in the living
11:33room. So you know the the
11:36we made the mistake but the crime
11:39is the person taking the child and
11:42you know it is it is incredibly rare
11:45but that's the focus and
11:47that person could strike again and we
11:49need to find them. Want to take a short
11:51break. When I come back I want to talk
11:52to you about the moment you discovered
11:54that Madeleine had gone.
11:56What was the exact moment? Let me ask
11:59you Kate when you realized Madeleine
12:01had gone.
12:03Well I went back to do a check at 10:00.
12:06Um
12:07and I went through the patio doors at
12:09the back.
12:10Um
12:11and I listened for a minute in the
12:13living room and it was all quiet. And I
12:15just noticed that the the door to the
12:17children's bedroom was quite far open.
12:20And we always leave it just so it's
12:22slightly ajar just to let a little bit
12:23of light in.
12:25And I thought to myself um did Matt
12:28leave the door open at 1/2 9? Uh cuz
12:31Matt checked on them at 1/2 9.
12:33Um and I thought that must be what
12:34happened so I went to to close over the
12:36children's door and just as I was about
12:39to close it it kind of slammed. As if
12:41like a gust of wind had shut it.
12:44Then I thought did I leave the patio
12:46doors open so I just checked and they
12:48were closed.
12:50And then I went back just to open the
12:51door again a little bit.
12:53And just as I was doing that I just um
12:57I just glanced at Madeleine's bed which
12:59was by the wall and it was really dark
13:01and I couldn't quite make her out.
13:04But I just kept looking for what felt
13:06like minutes thinking you know where is
13:08she you know.
13:09And it seems daft now cuz normally you
13:11you'd think I'd put the light on but
13:13that inbuilt thing of don't wake the
13:14kids up.
13:16Um
13:17and then I I looked and realized she
13:19wasn't there and then I thought has she
13:20gone through to our bedroom?
13:22Um but you know that would explain why
13:24the door was open as well. So I just
13:26quickly looked in our room and she
13:28wasn't there and that's probably the
13:29first time that panic starts to build.
13:32So then obviously I ran back into her
13:34room and um
13:36just as I did that there was the
13:38curtains which were closed just kind of
13:40blew open.
13:41And as we did that I noticed that the
13:43shutter was up and the window was open.
13:46And what did you think in that moment? I
13:47thought someone's taken her.
13:49You went down to tell Gerry straight
13:50away? Yeah I just
13:52I basically um quickly wished around the
13:55apartment in about 15 seconds. I don't
13:57know why in my head I was just thinking
13:59if someone's been in and she's she's
14:01cowarding somewhere I guess is why I did
14:03it.
14:04And then I just flew out through the
14:05back down the stairs to to the
14:07restaurant.
14:08And as soon as their table was in sight
14:10I just started screaming Madeleine's
14:11gone and then they all jumped up and
14:14were running over saying she must be
14:16there she must be there but obviously I
14:18I knew. And Gerry this is every father's
14:20nightmare every mother's nightmare but
14:22as as a father young girl and she's gone
14:25what are you thinking?
14:27The first thing that went through to my
14:28head and I think it was just disbelief.
14:30I said she can't be there she can't be
14:32there and then I was running
14:34to the apartment
14:35with Kate and so I've checked and she's
14:37like I've checked I've checked she's not
14:39there and um
14:41I ran into the bedroom and I found it
14:44just as Kate described and when I saw
14:46that
14:47window pushed wide open and the shutter
14:49up which we'd left down the whole week
14:52um
14:53it was horrible and I I I
14:57lowered the shutter and I went through
14:58the front door and and I was able to
15:01lift the shutter from the outside which
15:04Do you know that yet? Do you know is
15:05there any evidence how this person came
15:07in and out? Well I mean they don't they
15:09don't have a number of options and No
15:11actual evidence there's nothing they
15:13could find to say this is unequivocally
15:15how this person came in. I mean it's you
15:19know it's possible they could come
15:20through the window they could have come
15:21through the patio doors although
15:24that was in sight of where we were
15:25dining so I think that's probably less
15:28likely. For all we know they could have
15:29had a key you know lots of people have
15:31stayed in that apartment over
15:33years to the front door so There was a
15:36report that that morning Madeleine had
15:38asked you why you didn't come when she'd
15:40been crying.
15:41Did that set alarm bells
15:44off when she did that?
15:46Well it's one of those things isn't it
15:48with hindsight but at the time when she
15:50said it
15:52it you know it did
15:54you know we were saying what what do you
15:55mean Madeleine you know kinds of and we
15:57were trying to think you know was
15:58someone upset at bedtime you know or at
16:00bath time and
16:02we kind of pressed her a bit and said
16:04when was this and and she just dropped
16:07it and carried on playing.
16:08Um
16:10and at that point I'm thinking oh God I
16:11hope she didn't wake up
16:13you know in between our checks you know
16:15cuz I'd hate to think you know that that
16:17could have happened and then she'd worry
16:18that we weren't there.
16:20But at the same time that didn't to me
16:22just seemed a little bit odd cuz I
16:24thought yes it could happen but it just
16:26seemed a bit of a coincidence that we
16:28check leave she'd wake up get herself
16:31back off to sleep which kids don't often
16:33do.
16:34So she'd be asleep again before the next
16:37um Do do you have any
16:39blame that you would attach
16:41to the resort itself?
16:44Now given the time that's gone past.
16:47No I mean I think
16:49you know the
16:50the person to blame is the person that's
16:52taken Madeleine there's no doubt about
16:53that.
16:54And it's like everything like uh the
16:56decision we made you can argue well
16:58maybe we should have known about
17:00burglaries maybe that would have changed
17:02our behavior.
17:03Um you know I don't
17:04There have been a number of burglaries
17:05there?
17:06Yeah there's been quite a lot of
17:07burglaries but Do you know how many
17:09there there had been now? Do you know
17:10all the figures for that?
17:12No we're not sure. I mean it's difficult
17:14because we didn't have access to other
17:16crimes and things like that but we know
17:17other people contacting us saying the
17:19apartments have been burgled. So what
17:20one of the real frustrations for you is
17:22there have been these
17:24two
17:25investigating authorities one in Britain
17:26one in Portugal. Gerry do you think
17:28there is a missing link here? Do you
17:31believe that if enough time and money
17:33and resources devoted to this
17:36that there's something there's some
17:37stone that's been left unturned in this
17:39investigation? I'm absolutely certain
17:41that there are things that could be done
17:44based on the information that's
17:46available to us. Uh there are multiple
17:48areas and lines of inquiry which we
17:50think could be explored further
17:52uh based on what is in the the
17:54Portuguese file and I think it's
17:57critical really that for any major
17:59serious unsolved crime certainly in the
18:02UK a review would be a routine procedure
18:05and that's when someone else comes in
18:07and looks at what's been done.
18:09And that hasn't been done within
18:11Portugal. When the police turned up what
18:13was their initial
18:15behavior like towards you? We know that
18:17things turned pretty unpleasant quite
18:19quickly but when they first arrived Kate
18:21were they sympathetic were they helpful
18:23what what was the mood like?
18:25Well the first police that turned up
18:27were what we called GNR police they
18:29weren't the criminal police as such but
18:31of course we didn't we didn't know the
18:32different kinds of categories then.
18:35Um and I suppose you've got to bear in
18:37mind that we had the language barrier.
18:40Um
18:41so it's incredibly
18:42incredibly difficult.
18:45Um
18:46I I guess my biggest concern and it's
18:48hard to know if this is because of
18:50interpretation is
18:52I didn't feel
18:54that they sensed the urgency
18:56as as much as I'd like them to. Um
19:00obviously I knew my child had been
19:01taken.
19:03But it's quite hard to
19:05to get somebody else to believe that.
19:07Did you say did you think Gerry from the
19:08start that they they were suspicious of
19:11you?
19:12Certainly and the next day I had no
19:15doubt that you we as the parents and
19:18being there and the last people to see
19:19Madeleine that we'd be investigated. I
19:21think anyone who's got an inkling
19:23of any sort of police type investigation
19:26knows that's going to happen. So you
19:28know we went in and gave statements and
19:31we're happy to help and things like you
19:33know what the information we gave about
19:35Madeleine and what she said that morning
19:37we gave all this information exactly
19:39what we'd done in the hope that it would
19:41help. But has there ever been any
19:43discrepancy between anything that either
19:46of you has said any of your friends that
19:48were with you that night has there been
19:50anything that if an outside lawyer
19:52looked at this, they would say that
19:55doesn't add up. You have to remember
19:56there were nine people in a party here
19:59who didn't expect anything of this kind
20:01to happen.
20:02You know, so if you're talking about
20:03inconsistencies of time and being out by
20:055 or 10 minutes, then
20:07I think that's to be expected. I think
20:09that'd be normal. I think if it was all
20:12you know, tightly to the minute, that'd
20:14be more suspicious, but there's no major
20:17I think one of the best examples of an
20:19inconsistency there is when I came out
20:20of the apartment having checked
20:22Madeleine at about 5 past 9.
20:25Um I was going back to the the tapas
20:27area and I saw one of the guys who I'd
20:30played tennis with and he was walking up
20:32the opposite side of the road with his
20:34child and Jane walked up um and saw us,
20:37but I'm adamant that it was on the other
20:39side of the road and Jane's adamant and
20:41in fact uh the other guy were adamant it
20:43was on that side of the road. So, two
20:45people saying one thing, I'm saying
20:46another. The key thing is it happened
20:49and I can't say, "Well, well, maybe
20:52cross the road." You know, my memory
20:53says it was other side of the road and
20:55the British police are pretty clear
20:57about this that you get these sorts of
20:59inconsistencies all the time because no
21:01one's writing down as you're sitting
21:03having your dinner.
21:04as Kate said, if it was all completely
21:06in agreement about every tiny detail,
21:08that to me would seem more suspicious.
21:10Yeah, absolutely. When we come back, I
21:11want to talk to you about the moment
21:13that you realized for the first time
21:15that the Portuguese police were not
21:17looking for anybody else in connection
21:20with Madeleine's disappearance. They
21:21were looking at you.
21:23When the mood began to change,
21:25massive media attention, a lot of
21:28criticism against the Portuguese police
21:30and authorities for not moving quickly
21:32enough, not doing their job properly,
21:34and they retaliate, it seems to me, or
21:37they respond, let's be polite here, in
21:40the worst possible way as far as you're
21:42concerned. They they make you
21:44formal suspects, arguido.
21:47What was the moment like for you when
21:49you heard that was happening? Because
21:50that completely changed things.
21:53I mean, I think this had gone on
21:54probably sort of end of July into
21:57August, really. Um
21:59there's certainly a change in the media
22:01coverage
22:02and it was obvious that things were
22:04being leaked, stories were being leaked
22:06to the media.
22:07Just made us essentially or to show us
22:09in a negative light.
22:11Um and that's I think when we started to
22:12sense the hostility.
22:14And that coincided with the time where
22:16suddenly our communication, our meetings
22:19with the police stopped.
22:21So, not only were we having to face all
22:23that negativity and and lies, um
22:26we were also left in this void of
22:27information.
22:29And we found out that we were going to
22:31be made arguido. And it must be the the
22:33worst moment of all other than the
22:35moment you know that Madeleine's gone.
22:38To have somebody look you in the eye and
22:40effectively say to both of you, "We
22:43think you killed your daughter."
22:45That's a terrible moment, isn't it?
22:48Well, I just thought, "What is going on
22:49here?" It's the
22:50the you know, the
22:51thought you're right, nothing is worse
22:53as the first night, but I just felt like
22:54we were
22:56about to get destroyed at that point.
22:57Yeah, I think the realization in this
22:59particular part for Kate that
23:02effectively there was no ongoing search
23:05because
23:07there was clearly a strategy where the
23:10public
23:11were being led to believe that there was
23:14evidence that Madeleine was dead and
23:16that simply wasn't the case. But Jerry,
23:18you you you kept remarkably calm. But
23:20that almost played to your disadvantage.
23:22People thought, "Why is he being so
23:24calm?"
23:25Had you been hysterical, they'd say,
23:27"Why is he being so hysterical?" You
23:29can't win in that position.
23:30You don't see me behind the scenes. But
23:32but you were remarkably calm. I mean, if
23:33I'd been in your shoes and I'd been
23:34accused of something like that, I would
23:35I think I would have freaked out. How
23:37did you manage to keep your composure?
23:40I think the key thing is um I mean, as I
23:44say, behind the scenes, what you see
23:46different. I mean, I saw my husband on
23:48the floor crying his eyes out, you know,
23:50um
23:51so I think it I mean, at that point um
23:54at the lowest point, I thought our
23:56family was going to be destroyed or the
23:58potential for to be destroyed was there.
24:02But ultimately, and particularly when
24:03you're tired and you're doing that, you
24:05you come by and the overwhelming
24:08objective that we have is to find
24:10Madeleine
24:11and what you need to do to get through
24:13that and to keep that search going.
24:16But I mean, we should be clear, there
24:18was no formal accusation. No. I we were
24:22never arrested, there were no charges
24:24and the arguido thing literally you
24:26know, is translated as suspect, but it
24:30would be you could argue if we'd been
24:32made arguido on day one because they had
24:34to ask us in questions which might
24:36incriminate you, that would have been
24:37fine. And in the August, I said, "Look,
24:39if we have to start from square one
24:41again, you know, bring it on and we we
24:44will be there and and do it, but there
24:46was clearly a portrayal in the media
24:49that there was evidence incriminating us
24:52and
24:53you know, we were clearly suggested that
24:56if we confess to hiding Madeleine's
24:58body,
24:59then that would be the end of it. Were
25:01you offered a specific deal like that?
25:02Were you offered a If you if you accept
25:05that you did this,
25:07you can go to prison for 2 years and be
25:08out.
25:09That was what I read. Is it is that
25:11true? It is true. I mean, it's it's hard
25:13because
25:14nobody likes it to be called a deal, but
25:16indirectly, it was put to us that um
25:21if we confess to hiding Madeleine's
25:23body, so not killing her, but accidental
25:25death, and
25:26if we confess to hiding her body, then
25:29it would be a non-custodial
25:31service, 2 years. Um
25:34Jerry could go back to work, we were
25:35told. Um
25:38But I was just crazy, you know.
25:40The hardest thing I should say about the
25:41arguido was the realization suddenly
25:43that no one was looking for Madeleine
25:45cuz if they were looking at us and
25:46focusing all of their attention and
25:47resources on us or trying to find stuff
25:51against us, then who was looking for
25:52Madeleine?
25:54So, I was angry. I mean, I'd gone from
25:57kind of this downward spiral in July
26:00when nobody was really speaking to us in
26:02August with all the headlines and
26:03suddenly I just felt strong cuz I
26:05thought,
26:06"You know, I'm damned if this will
26:07happen to my daughter. You know, if
26:09they're not going to be there for her,
26:10then we have to fight for her."
26:13We're going to take another short break.
26:14When we come back, I want to talk to you
26:16about the fight that you then launched
26:18to try and find Madeleine and what you
26:20think are the possible
26:23unanswered questions that need to be
26:24answered.
26:26We welcome the news today,
26:28although it is no cause for celebration.
26:32It's hard to describe how utterly
26:34despairing it was to be named arguido
26:37and subsequently portrayed in the media
26:40as suspects in our own daughter's
26:42abduction.
26:44That was just after you'd been informed
26:46you were no longer arguido, no longer a
26:48suspect as they called it there. And
26:51whilst there's relief in your voice,
26:52Kate, there's also I can tell real
26:54simmering anger. What did it do to to
26:56your
26:58public opinion,
27:00particularly back home here where it was
27:02such an enormous story. You were front
27:04page news for weeks after weeks after
27:06months after months. A lot of it
27:09negative, a lot of it pushing really
27:11hard.
27:12As almost as if some of the media wanted
27:14you to be guilty. I remember reading the
27:16headlines thinking, "Wow, they're
27:18pushing the envelope here."
27:19You're having to live
27:21in this country and you're having to
27:23live with being called arguido suspects.
27:27That must have been a pretty awful
27:28experience, wasn't it?
27:30You know, it was a great story for the
27:31media, but you're right. I mean, this
27:34was our life. We were having to live it.
27:36You know, um
27:38I think it's a bad episode for
27:41the media, you know, cuz obviously we
27:43took action against the Express and uh
27:46it was a last resort, but they were
27:48rehashing headlines from months before
27:51over and over again and we were prepared
27:53to cut a bit of slack around the arguido
27:55time. We were declared arguido, these
27:57things were happening in Portugal. But
28:00you know, months later, um
28:02and some of the stories were just
28:04complete fabrications. It was
28:06detrimental to the search.
28:07I think the other important issue was
28:09the stories that were being put out
28:11there were implying that Madeleine was
28:12dead. Yeah. Of all the madcap theories,
28:16and you must see more than anybody else.
28:18You must hear and see everything that
28:20that comes out about this.
28:22Are there any that you think have any
28:24kind of credibility that you think
28:25should be really pushed further?
28:28It's incredibly difficult case because
28:30if you speak to Ernie Allen at the
28:32National Center for Missing Exploited
28:33Children who've got the most expertise
28:36in these types of stranger or or
28:38stereotypical kidnappings,
28:41what Ernie says and it's stuck with us
28:43is until you know who's taken your
28:45daughter,
28:46you don't know and you can think of a
28:48whole host of scenarios. And I think
28:51that he's given us some examples. When
28:53Elizabeth Smart was abducted at knife
28:55point from her bedroom
28:57uh which she shared with her sister, he
28:59said, "There's no way we could have
29:01known that she would be living just
29:03miles from home." Um Jaycee Dugard, I
29:06mean, all of these cases, who could have
29:08imagined it? So, we've got to be
29:11completely open-minded as to who's taken
29:14her and why and I I I don't think we'll
29:17know until we find that person. One of
29:19the things I was struck by in the book
29:21is is your quite open account of what
29:23it's done to your marriage, this.
29:26I mean, do you feel that you've been
29:27quite fortunate to stay together? Do you
29:29think this could have split up many
29:31couples?
29:32I think that's without doubt, really. I
29:34mean, it's
29:35such a major event to happen to your
29:37life and the consequences and
29:39ramifications are massive.
29:41And we're very fortunate, you know, we
29:43we had a strong relationship before.
29:45We've got a great family and really good
29:47friends who supported us but not
29:48everyone has that. And as you know, the
29:51statistics will show that most marriages
29:52break down in circumstances like
29:55At its At its worst, what what's it been
29:57like trying to have a relationship
29:59through this?
30:00It's been incredibly difficult and
30:03I think as you can see from the footage
30:05and other things I found my feet
30:08much quicker than Kate and was able to
30:11put away a lot of the images of
30:13Madeleine
30:14and to compartmentalize them and and
30:17almost take a conscious aspect that
30:20thinking about the worst wasn't helping
30:23me and it it wasn't helping the search
30:25and
30:26there's been times where you are
30:28uh you're just managing to keep your own
30:30head above the water
30:32and when you're trying to get support
30:34and this is a two-way thing and you
30:36didn't you you know, I feel terrible now
30:38looking back but there were times when I
30:40couldn't support Kate cuz I thought I'm
30:42going to go under.
30:43Did either of you ever get suicidal?
30:47No, I mean I don't think I was ever
30:48suicidal but I often wished
30:52my life would be over.
30:53Um
30:55you know, I'd never have planned
30:56anything or done anything. I knew that
30:58wasn't a you know, possibility that
31:00wasn't an option.
31:01But I you know, so much pain
31:04that I used to think about God let's
31:05just pull the duvet over and I won't
31:08wake up tomorrow. Well, Gerry hinted
31:09there that there've been times when he's
31:11been
31:12he feels bad now about being unable to
31:14support you.
31:15That must have been a particularly
31:16difficult period for you when even Gerry
31:20couldn't seem to provide any comfort for
31:22you.
31:23It was. I mean you know, there were
31:24times when I just
31:26wanted to be held or something. Um
31:29but I equally I know that the times when
31:32I couldn't support like my mom and dad
31:34for example. Um cuz we've all suffered
31:37in this.
31:38And I guess you have to make sure that
31:41you're afloat in order to be able to
31:43support somebody else and it you know,
31:44that works both ways. And we are very
31:46fortunate that we've had you know,
31:48really close family that can support us
31:50at those times.
31:52We're going to have another short break.
31:53When we come back I want to talk to you
31:54about the diary that you've kept and how
31:57cathartic that may have been for you,
31:58how helpful.
32:02We're doing everything we can Madeleine
32:04to find you and there's so many good and
32:05very kind people helping us.
32:08Be brave sweetheart.
32:11Our only Christmas wish is for you to be
32:13back with us again.
32:14And we're hoping and praying that that
32:16will happen.
32:18Love you Madeleine.
32:21How hard is it for you to to see
32:24video footage of Madeleine even now?
32:28I think it's the one medium that really
32:30brings her back to me in particular.
32:32Seeing her moving and
32:35her voice and
32:37and it's our Madeleine as opposed to the
32:39iconic picture of Madeleine the missing
32:41child, it's our daughter and uh and
32:44sometimes we just go and put the video
32:46on and sit and watch it with the kids as
32:48well. You're both religious people and
32:51you had a
32:52private meeting with the Pope. What was
32:54that like for you Kate?
32:57Well, at that point it was just
32:59incredibly important. I mean I truly
33:01believed
33:02that it would make a difference for
33:03Madeleine.
33:04Um
33:06and I've often described it as the next
33:08step really, the closest you can get to
33:10kind of meeting God in some way and I
33:12just thought
33:15all my prayers etc. would be channeled
33:18more quickly to God.
33:19What did he say to you?
33:22He just just very simply took a
33:23photograph of Madeleine and placed his
33:26palm on it and blessed her and he just
33:28said I'll continue to pray for
33:29Madeleine's safe return and for all your
33:30family. Has what's happened to you
33:32damaged your faith?
33:35It's challenged my faith. I mean there's
33:37no doubt about that really.
33:40I'm still there, you know, I've still
33:41got my faith but there have been times
33:43and particularly back in I'd say 2008
33:45was my my worst year.
33:47Where you know, I
33:49I'm not embarrassed to say I felt angry
33:50with God. Um I couldn't understand why
33:54all this had happened, not Madeleine
33:55being taken cuz I don't believe that was
33:57the will of God.
33:58Um but everything that's happened
34:00subsequently
34:02and the fact that we just we just felt
34:04so many challenges and particularly in
34:06Portugal where I felt we really needed
34:08help. I really wanted someone to stand
34:10up and say this is all wrong, we'll help
34:12you.
34:13Um and I guess I
34:15you know, I
34:16threw that back at God really and said
34:17why you allowing all of this to happen?
34:19You know, we can handle so much but this
34:22just seems too much.
34:23And Gerry, do you still keep Madeleine's
34:25room as it always was?
34:28Yeah, I mean it's a lot more
34:30a lot more stuff in it now, lots of
34:31presents and things but we have pretty
34:34much kept it. Um
34:37I'm less sentimental about it I have to
34:39say. I think
34:41um but Kate finds it particularly
34:43comforting going in there.
34:45And Sean and Amelie like going in. They
34:46always go in and say can we borrow one
34:48of Madeleine's teddy bears and they'll
34:49How have they dealt with it?
34:52Brilliantly. Um I mean we've always been
34:54as honest as we could be with them and
34:56that was certainly the advice we were
34:57given.
34:58What what do they think happened to
34:59Madeleine? Well, they know that a man
35:01has taken her
35:03and they know that that's wrong.
35:05Um they know that we're all looking
35:07we're all looking for her. Lots of
35:08people are helping us. Looking at Sean
35:10and Amelie though, you wouldn't know
35:11that the major trauma's happened in
35:14their lives and
35:15they can talk about even on holiday last
35:18week and they meet little kids and they
35:20talk about brothers and sisters and they
35:22say oh we've got a big sister Madeleine
35:24but she's missing and we're looking for
35:26her and they talk about the wristbands.
35:27Today would have been her eighth
35:29birthday.
35:30I mean every part of you just must be
35:32wondering what she looks like now.
35:35Apart from anything else, how you would
35:36have celebrated the day.
35:38I mean do do you commemorate the day?
35:40Will you do anything with the other two
35:41children? How how do you deal with
35:43a birthday when she's not there?
35:46Well, what we've done the last few year
35:48few years we have marked the day. You
35:49know, we've had like a just a small sort
35:51of birthday tea really with close family
35:54and friends.
35:55Um
35:56This year is obviously different with
35:57the launch of the book and stuff so
35:59we're very busy.
36:01I mean it's hard I find it hard to think
36:03well, I've got an 8-year-old daughter,
36:04you know, and I just say what does she
36:05look like and I do try and imagine her
36:07and
36:08make her taller and stuff and
36:12but it's hard, you know, cuz
36:14you should be you should be with her,
36:16you know, celebrating her birthday
36:17together. So
36:18In many ways I think
36:20launching the book today
36:22is a good thing to do on her birthday.
36:24It's doing something positive. It's
36:26re-energizing the search. We've launched
36:27a campaign as she said with News
36:29International to get a review
36:31and I think these are
36:33milestones that you pass and you know,
36:35there's going to be media attention
36:36irrespective so it's always a good time
36:39from our point of view to capitalize on
36:41that. Um
36:43we've just got to find her really.
36:45After the break we're going to talk
36:47specifically about how people watching
36:49this can possibly help you
36:51and to see also where you think that the
36:53focus of investigation should now be.
36:56How can people help? If you're watching
36:58this interview and you're keen to try
37:01and help you in some way in the search
37:02for Madeleine, what is the most
37:04effective way that people can do this?
37:06There's two things. One, read the book
37:08Madeleine
37:10and our website's got all the key
37:11information as well and contact numbers
37:13and key images so that's
37:16www.findmadeleine.com
37:20and we've had lots of information
37:21through that. People in the UK and
37:24Portugal we want them to lobby their MPs
37:26and governments to conduct the review.
37:28That's the call to action today really
37:30to try and get that done. Madeleine had
37:32a very distinctive eye pattern, didn't
37:34she? Tell me about that Kate in case
37:36people see somebody they think may be
37:37Madeleine. Tell me about her eye.
37:41If I'm honest we haven't put too much
37:42emphasis on her eye because I think you
37:44have to be very close to it to see it.
37:46But her eyes are slightly different
37:48colors and one of them has this brown
37:49fleck in it.
37:51Um but you do notice particularly on
37:53photographs but Slightly distinctive eye
37:56colors and a little fleck and that and
37:58do you know that would still be there if
37:59she's now 8 years old?
38:01I certainly believe it won't have
38:03changed. I think there's been a bit of
38:04debate as to whether it's the technical
38:06terms of coloboma or whether there's a
38:08defect in the eye. This I don't think it
38:10is actually. I think it is actually just
38:12additional bit of coloring. She
38:14certainly had no visual problems. And if
38:16people see somebody they think could
38:17possibly be Madeleine, who should they
38:19call? They should call the police, local
38:21police. You know, if they really think
38:23it is Madeleine then it gets addressed
38:24there and then. It's actually quite
38:26difficult um
38:28if you get information coming in
38:29historically about sightings so the
38:31advice is clear it should be to call the
38:34the local police. But if they could
38:35cover all options and let our
38:37investigation team know as well that
38:39would be really helpful. Have there been
38:40moments when you've been pretty much
38:44confident that you may have found her?
38:47Uh never. I don't think so and I don't
38:49think we've ever allowed ourselves to
38:52to go there.
38:53Um
38:55I mean early on when there was the odd
38:58um kind of what turned out to be a hoax
39:00call
39:02you always have that real hope of this
39:03could be it, it could all just be over.
39:06But since then because of the total
39:08emotional roller coaster really that
39:10we've been on you try and hold back
39:11really.
39:13And a lot of the pictures we've been
39:14sent that have been looked at, you kind
39:16of know it's not but you just need total
39:19verification.
39:20Do you still talk to Madeleine? Do you
39:21still have any kind of conversation with
39:24her?
39:26I do. I mean I still go into her bedroom
39:28twice a day just really just to open the
39:30curtains and stuff and close them at
39:32night and I'll just have a little word
39:34to her and I still keep my diary so Can
39:36you sleep okay now?
39:38I can actually. Yeah, it's took time cuz
39:41the the nights
39:42were the worst. I mean, I still have the
39:44odd night where if she's very much on my
39:46mind and something's upset me, then it's
39:48hard to sleep, but I'm sleeping fine
39:50now. I mean, there've been as you said
39:51earlier, there've been cases quite
39:53recently of girls who just disappeared
39:56reappearing. You know, in in Jaycee
39:58Dugard's case, 18 years later
40:01from captivity. When you see those
40:04stories,
40:06does your heart
40:07flip a bit? Do you think there's hope?
40:10Or is it almost like a a knife in your
40:12back that Madeleine hasn't?
40:15I think overall it gives you hope. I
40:17mean, you know, obviously every day we
40:19hope that it's not going to be 18 years
40:21as every parent would,
40:22but at the end of the day it just
40:24highlights how easy it is for children
40:26to disappear off the radar and to turn
40:29up, you know, many many years later. So,
40:32by that point many people would have
40:33written that child off for dead and it
40:35just shows you how wrong you can be. I
40:37think the strongest thing for us is
40:39the public consciousness that these
40:41sorts of abductions, children are found,
40:44and that is more important and it's
40:46really important not to give up on
40:48Madeleine. Can't give up on them. We've
40:50got to keep her image out there and who
40:52knows how she'll be found, whether it be
40:54recognized. Obviously, we want to try
40:56and track the abductor.
40:59I mean, there's a a tiny chance, I
41:01guess, that Madeleine might be somewhere
41:02where she may see this interview. You
41:04never know. You don't know who she's
41:05with or where she is.
41:08If she was, what would you say to
41:11I'd tell her the same, Madeleine, we're
41:12still looking for you. If you get a
41:14chance, tell the police who you are.
41:16Okay, what would you what would you say
41:18if you had the chance?
41:19I'd just say, you know, we love you,
41:21Madeleine, and we're not giving up.
41:23Uh we're still looking for you. If you
41:25can, let somebody know, honey, and
41:27we'll get you home.
41:29Well, I I I just hope you keep the faith
41:31and that she turns up. I think everybody
41:33does. It's been a a harrowing
41:36time for you. Uh can't even begin to
41:38imagine what you've been through, but I
41:40really appreciate you spending the time
41:41with me. Thank you. Thank you very much
41:43for having us.

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