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Louise Perry | We Should NOT Welcome The New Era Of Porn (4/6) | Oxford Union Debate — Transcript

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0:04[Music]
0:08i now look to louise perry to continue
0:10the case for the opposition
0:18[Applause]
0:20thank you so much cindy thank you so
0:21much everyone who has spoken so far and
0:23thank you so much for inviting me it's
0:25an honor to be here
0:27in 2001
0:29the porn star jenna jameson stood
0:31exactly where i'm standing now
0:33and argued against the motion this house
0:35believes that porn is harmful
0:37at the time jameson was
0:40described in the media as the queen of
0:41porn she's probably the most famous porn
0:43star in the world and probably its most
0:44visible supporter and she won her debate
0:47resoundingly with 207 votes to 24.
0:52i think now that jefferson would be
0:53debating on the other side
0:55because in 2008 she left the industry
0:58and she has since become an outspoken
1:00critic of it
1:01she's not the only porn star to have
1:03trod on that path
1:05most porn stars
1:07particularly women enter the industry
1:09when they're in their late teens and
1:11most leave in their 30s
1:13and that's typically when their public
1:15pronouncements on the industry take on a
1:16very different character that's if they
1:19live to their 30s of course
1:21tragically suicide rates and deaths by
1:24drug and alcohol abuse are incredibly
1:26common in the porn industry which has a
1:29way of destroying the people that work
1:30for it
1:32now we've heard from the proposition
1:33this evening
1:35that the new porn is different
1:37that um
1:38cutting out the middleman and connecting
1:41um
1:42the producers to the creators makes all
1:44of the difference
1:46and the and the proposition have told us
1:47that it's not porn per se that is the
1:49problem the problem is the manner of its
1:52manufacture and distribution
1:56we've also heard from cindy just now
1:57about feminist porn and ethical porn and
1:59all the exciting new ways in which we
2:01can transform what everyone knows is
2:02sort of not a very ethical industry
2:05but here's the thing about feminist porn
2:07no one cares about feminist porn
2:10no one watches feminist porn it makes up
2:12such a tiny and unpopular portion of the
2:15market that really the only function it
2:17serves as a rhetorical device in
2:19discussions like this it's out there
2:21we've opened up
2:22and the market have told us what they
2:23want and it doesn't look very nice and
2:26it doesn't look very feminist at all
2:29because the thing is regardless of any
2:31ethical or feminist label that you might
2:33put on a video you can't actually as a
2:35conscientious consumer
2:37and i should add actually that a lot of
2:39people don't watch porn just as a brief
2:40point of rebuttal in fact almost a
2:42quarter of millennial men have not
2:44watched porn in the last month this idea
2:45that everyone watches porn is is not
2:47only untrue but is also a permission
2:49giving myth it gives us all the
2:50impression that it's fine because
2:52everyone does it
2:53not everyone does do it loads of people
2:54don't watch porn because they they have
2:56they have these uh these ethical
2:58objections which are exactly right
3:01and because they know that actually when
3:02you look at a video whatever label might
3:04be on it you can't actually know that
3:05the people in it are happy to be there
3:08and just as importantly you can't know
3:10that they are still happy that their
3:12images are out in the world
3:14linda lovelace
3:16was one of the most famous porn stars in
3:18her age because she started the iconic
3:19film deep throat and at the time she was
3:21also one of the most visible proponents
3:24of the industry she did a tour of the uk
3:26telling everyone how marvellous porn was
3:28it was only years later that she said
3:29that she'd been coerced into the
3:30industry by an abusive husband
3:33and she said that everyone who watched
3:34deep throat was watching her being raped
3:37it's half a century on and lovelace is
3:39dead and people are still watching it
3:42when the porn industry is presented with
3:44its hideous list of crimes
3:46it ha
3:48people tend to reproduce some version of
3:49the sexual liberation narrative we're
3:51told that everyone is consenting
3:54everyone is an adult the women like it
3:56and who you say otherwise
3:58now of course you might respond that
3:59actually not everyone is an adult and
4:02not everyone is consenting in a strict
4:04legal sense of the word given that how
4:06many images of children non-consenting
4:08adults are to be found on even the most
4:10mainstream porn platforms including only
4:12fans as we've already heard from matthew
4:14earlier
4:16but the industry and its defenders are
4:18very quick to tell us that actually
4:19these people are outliers
4:20and they pivot back to the happy
4:22minority who prop up its reputation
4:25and as long as those women are old
4:27enough just and as long as they are
4:29moderately sane enough and as long as
4:31they say yes at the crucial moments
4:34then they reach the legal threshold for
4:35consent and the industry can do within
4:37what it likes
4:40excuse me
4:42taking a woman at her word when she says
4:44of course i'm consenting
4:47is appealing because it's easy
4:49it doesn't force us to look too closely
4:51at the porn industry and it doesn't
4:53force us to think too hard about how
4:56trauma and youth and credulousness and
4:58some murky combination of all three can
5:01lead us all to do things that hurt or
5:03even destroy us
5:05you can do terrible harm to a consenting
5:07adult who is begging you for more
5:10and the new pawn doesn't change any of
5:11that in fact actually if you look very
5:13closely at it it looks an awful lot like
5:15the or like the old pawn we've heard
5:18already about the precarious position
5:19that creators have put in on platforms
5:22like only fans
5:23another problem with the platform
5:26is it is not an easy source of income
5:28for women in difficult circumstances or
5:30indeed for oxford university students
5:32for one thing
5:34the income distribution is incredibly
5:36unequal about one percent of only fans
5:38creators bring in 33
5:40of all of the income and most of those
5:42creators were existing celebrities
5:43before they went on the platform
5:45if only fans were in nation state it
5:47would be more unequal than the most
5:49unequal country in the world which is
5:51which is south africa
5:53in fact probably the majority of only
5:55fans creators make a loss given the
5:57amount of time that they have to spend
5:59creating content and engaging with users
6:02the median creator has just 30
6:05subscribers
6:06but she carries just as much risk of
6:09harassment and exposure as her more
6:11successful counterparts
6:13the internet is forever
6:15her images might be seen by a future
6:17boss
6:18or by
6:19her children or by her grandchildren
6:21either
6:23only fans is nowhere near as dangerous
6:24as street-based or brothel-based
6:26prostitution but it still has its perils
6:29including to a woman's long-term
6:30relationship prospects which are also
6:32damaged by being on only fans and which
6:33have a huge effect on a person's
6:35long-term happiness
6:39we shouldn't be surprised that
6:42by the malfeasance of only fans
6:44it is a tax-dodging corporation that
6:47profits from the commoditization of
6:49sexual intimacy
6:50and it is owned by a man
6:52as all of the major pawn platforms are
6:55it doesn't care about promoting the
6:57well-being of its users or of its
6:58creators all it cares about is growth
7:02more more content more clicks more
7:05subscribers more profits
7:08the historian david courtright has
7:10coined the term limbic capitalism to
7:12describe a
7:14technologically progressive but socially
7:16regressive business system
7:18that makes money by manipulating the
7:21limbic system which is part of the brain
7:23responsible for feeling
7:27our primitive brains helplessly seek out
7:29the stimuli that were advantageous in
7:32the ancestral environment it's the
7:33reason why the most successful apps are
7:35bright colored like fresh fruit and
7:37glint like fresh water we are
7:39instinctively attracted to these things
7:41junk food gambling video games opioids
7:44smoking these are all examples of limit
7:47capitalism in action and porn is the
7:49preeminent example of limit capitalism
7:52because porn is to sex as mcdonald's is
7:55to food
7:56these are capitalist enterprises that
7:59take our basic instincts pluck out the
8:01most compulsive and addictive elements
8:03strip away anything that's truly
8:05nutritious
8:06and then keep us wanting more and more
8:10they strip the consumer of health and
8:13happiness
8:14and money most importantly that's that's
8:16the name of the game
8:18this is an industry that harms its
8:20workers we know that
8:22but it's also an industry that harms its
8:24consumers
8:26it trains the brain to regard sex as a
8:28spectator sport
8:30to be enjoyed alone and in front of a
8:32screen
8:33this was not normal
8:35we talk often as if
8:37as if access to porn was some
8:38fundamental human rights 20 years ago
8:41there was no access to online porn
8:43for all of human history we have
8:44survived of our imaginations it is only
8:47now that it's considered essential to
8:48have access to this incredibly brutal
8:50industry
8:52so the porn industry has already proved
8:54itself incapable of regulating itself i
8:55mean this is this is this is currently
8:57being discussed by parliament exactly
8:58what regulation what regulation ought to
9:00be put in place because at the moment it
9:02is failed utterly despite
9:04these you know huge huge companies
9:06having such um brand recognition
9:09i mean
9:10we're not actually discussing what
9:11legislative model that we might put in
9:13place this evening i would be happy to
9:15invite it back if that were on the cards
9:16but
9:18this is also true of child sexual abuse
9:20images
9:21you know that that are it is incredibly
9:23difficult to prosecute child sexual
9:24abuse images they are everywhere they're
9:26all over the web um it's very rare to
9:28secure convictions for possession
9:31compared with how common they are that
9:32doesn't mean we legalize it we don't
9:34just give up because it's difficult to
9:36regulate something or because it's
9:37difficult to you know define it in
9:39particular circumstances if we can agree
9:41as a cult and this is something that is
9:43harmful to
9:45the individual to the creator to society
9:47at large
9:48then we should unite in thinking about
9:51ways of dealing with it not just rolling
9:53over and letting these vast
9:54multinational corporations dictate what
9:58sex ought to be and use the generation
10:00of people as guinea pigs
10:02we have a generation of young people who
10:04are seeing hundreds of thousands of
10:05images of adults having sex before
10:08they've had any sexual interaction of
10:10their own and the propositions seem to
10:12think this is this is just a price to
10:15pay and this is acceptable
10:17and that this is just something that we
10:18all have to
10:19sort of learn to roll with the punches
10:21this isn't it isn't it isn't normal it
10:24isn't okay and it's and what we've seen
10:26when the
10:28porn industry has given free
10:30free reign is that this is where it
10:31inevitably leads
10:33we try and talk about feminists when we
10:35try and talk about ethical porn that's
10:36not what the market demands the market
10:38demands more and more extreme content
10:40and it sucks users into this vortex of
10:42dysfunctional a dysfunctional
10:44relationship with porn and it removes
10:46love and mutuality from sex just turning
10:49people into a collection of relevant
10:51body parts
10:53but i think that this is one of those
10:54rare problems that does actually have a
10:56blindingly simple
10:57solution whether or not we want to
11:01regulate
11:02the porn industry as i think we should
11:04and as the government is currently
11:05making moves to
11:07every single person has absolute
11:08autonomy over whether or not they
11:10directly contribute to this industry it
11:13is so much easier to give up porn than
11:15it is to give up
11:16um
11:17uh factual farm meat or clothes made
11:21with sweatshop labor because we all have
11:23to feed and clothe ourselves but not a
11:25single person in this room ever needs to
11:26watch porn ever again
11:30i urge you to oppose this motion
11:32of course i do
11:34but that's actually not what matters
11:36what matters is the decisions that we
11:38make as individuals not to contribute to
11:40this brutal industry
11:42we know that it's brutal there is no
11:44reason to give it your eyeballs there is
11:46no reason to give it your money we could
11:48all decide now
11:50that actually we're not going to allow
11:52this to continue
12:10[Music]
12:13you

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