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Local SEO Masterclass: Darren Shaw on Ranking Factors, Reviews, and Google Business Hacks — Transcript

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0:00Darren Shaw, thank you for coming on the
0:01podcast. You founded WhiteSpark, which
0:04is a legend in local search engine
0:06optimization. You yourself are a legend
0:08in local search engine optimization, and
0:10you recently made a list, a very
0:12upto-date, thorough list of the most
0:15important ranking factors in local SEO.
0:18>> Yep. The Weiss Park 2026 local search
0:22ranking factors. It's been around since
0:242008, originally developed by David Mim,
0:27and it is the bible of how to rank in
0:31local search. It's basically a survey of
0:33the top 40, 50
0:36most prominent local SEOs in the space,
0:39people that are studying this,
0:40researching this, um, doing all kinds of
0:43testing. So those are the people I tap
0:45to complete a really big survey and
0:47their insights get aggregated into
0:50really understanding what's driving
0:52search and it's really fascinating to
0:54see what changes year after year. So
0:55it's been running for many many years
0:57now and it's it's really the the source
0:59of of what really makes local search
1:01tick. How how much does it change?
1:05Because when so you sent it to me and I
1:06looked at it, I saw you know it was it
1:08was this is something that you do. It's
1:12updated you said yearly.
1:14>> Well, David may have did a better job of
1:16maintaining it yearly. I'm like every
1:18two years but uh Yeah. Yeah. Generally.
1:21>> Okay. But it was update but it was
1:22updated like what a month ago.
1:24>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:25>> Just got a new addition out.
1:27>> Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Um can you give
1:30your background first before we even get
1:32into it?
1:32>> Yeah, of course. So, uh, I'm Darren
1:35Shaw, founder of Whitespark. I started
1:37the company in 2005, so we've been
1:39around for 20 years. And we started as
1:42a, uh, well, I started as a freelance
1:45web developer, just making websites for
1:46local businesses. And then from there,
1:49um, started helping them rank those
1:51websites in in search results. And most
1:54of my business were local, so I was
1:55really focused on this local SEO thing.
1:58Um, and I just really got obsessed with
2:00it. early early on in the industry. And
2:04in 2010, I read a great blog post from
2:08this guy Garrett French about citations
2:11and how you could find citations by
2:12searching people's phone numbers. And I
2:14thought I could make a tool for that.
2:16So, uh, we built our first SAS software
2:18called the local citation finder. And
2:20since that time, we've evolved into a
2:24full SAS company. So, we do both SAS and
2:27services. So, we have full agency
2:29services and our listing service is
2:32huge. We're really well known for our
2:33citation service. Um, but then we also
2:36have rank tracking software, reputation
2:38management software, um, local ranking
2:41grids. We have a platform for managing
2:43Google business profiles and keeping it
2:44up to date and notifying you of any
2:46changes. And so, yeah, we're really
2:48evolving into a combination of local
2:51search and services companies.
2:54>> Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I hear
2:57white spark I've like I've been in SEO
2:59for a long time and I've heard white
3:00spark all the time since then.
3:03>> Well, our marketing is working then.
3:05>> Yeah, your marketing is working. All
3:07right. So, what is the number one most
3:11important factor in local search engine
3:14optimization?
3:15>> Uh well, the survey will tell you that
3:18it is your primary category. So, uh,
3:21what you set on your Google business
3:22profile, it's a little bit obvious. It's
3:25maybe like the number one factor is
3:26maybe not the most interesting one, but
3:29it's your primary category they set on
3:30your Google business profile. So, and
3:33it's pretty obvious. So, if you are a
3:34towing company and you set your primary
3:37category to be donut shop, you're not
3:40going to rank for towing. So, that one's
3:43pretty straightforward, pretty obvious.
3:44I do have a tip for it though which is a
3:47lot of people make the state mistake of
3:49going broad with their primary category.
3:51The best example is law firm. Google has
3:54a category for law firm. But let's say
3:59you are a criminal defense attorney or
4:00you're a bankruptcy attorney or a
4:02personal injury attorney. You absolutely
4:05are failing if you set your primary
4:08category to law firm. Your primary
4:10category should be the most closely
4:12aligned with what you want to rank for.
4:14So, primary category is the number one
4:16local search ranking factor.
4:17>> Dude, I'm I'm like immediately like this
4:19episode is going to make so many people
4:22so much money just by you because these
4:26are mistakes that like already right
4:28there people are probably like writing
4:30down, oh my god, like
4:32>> yeah, look at your primary category
4:33right now because you might have messed
4:35it up. [laughter]
4:37Uh
4:39what are there any other mistakes that
4:40people make with primary category or is
4:42that the
4:43>> uh that's the main one. I have another
4:45hot tip though. Um let me just bring up
4:48the report. The other hot tip for
4:49primary category is you
4:54can consider if you are a seasonal
4:56business changing your primary category
4:59seasonally. So, because it's so
5:02powerful, let's say you have your
5:04primary category set as lawn care
5:06company, but what do you do in the
5:09winter in northern climates? Well, you
5:11probably switch to doing snow removal.
5:14If you change your primary category in
5:16the fall from lawn care to snow removal,
5:19boom, now you're ranking for snow
5:21removal. So, thinking about that primary
5:24category shift is uh in some industries
5:27can be really powerful. The other great
5:29example is um HVAC. And this is another
5:33example where the the HVAC companies
5:36typically get it wrong. They'll go HVAC
5:39contractor as their primary category,
5:41which is like has anyone in their right
5:43mind ever gone to Google and search I'm
5:46looking for an HVAC contractor. No, they
5:48type furnace repair, furnace
5:49installation, they type in air
5:52conditioning repair, air conditioning
5:53installation. And so that's a great
5:55seasonal switch as well. So, in the
5:56fall, you switch to furnace repair. In
5:59the uh in the spring, you'll switch to
6:02AC repair.
6:04>> Wow.
6:05>> What um Oh, do you think uh do you think
6:08non-local businesses should have a
6:10Google business profile?
6:13>> Um the value would be this the knowledge
6:16panel you get with reviews. So, let's
6:18say you were an online store and you
6:21also had a physical location. It would
6:24be hard for you to justify a Google
6:26business profile. Technically, you're
6:28not eligible. So, if you don't service
6:32local customers, if customers don't come
6:34to your location, then you're not really
6:37eligible for a Google business profile
6:39unless you're like what's called a
6:40service area business where you go to
6:41the customers. And so, it's hard to make
6:43the case. Whitespark's a great example
6:45actually. So, Whitespark, uh, we had a
6:48Google business profile and got
6:49suspended. Said place did not exist.
6:51>> Like, what?
6:52>> Yeah, I know. our profile [laughter] got
6:53suspended. So, I had to I had to make
6:56the case. And we did have a case. Even
6:58though we're a SAS company and it looks
7:00like we look like this global online
7:03business, which is true, we do still
7:05service local customers. So, we have a
7:08whole SEO agency side where we do SEO
7:11for clients and you know, 10 of them are
7:14in Edmonton and we do go and meet with
7:16them. And so I was able to make the case
7:18that we are just as eligible for a
7:20Google business profile as any as the
7:22local SEO agencies in our city. And so
7:25that's how I was able to get it. But if
7:26you're an online business and all you do
7:28is e-commerce for example, it's hard to
7:30justify getting uh a Google business
7:33profile. And
7:34>> even if even if like all of the
7:36employees are in one place,
7:38>> if you have an office and you serve
7:40customers at that office, you can have a
7:42Google business profile. It it is as
7:44simple as that for sure. If you have all
7:45your employees and they come to an
7:46office and your office has signage,
7:49absolutely, you're eligible.
7:51This method of marketing is so
7:53effective, I had to make sure it wasn't
7:54against Google's rules before I kept
7:56doing it. It's a form of SEO I call
7:59compact keywords. Whereas most SEO
8:01focuses on putting up articles to answer
8:04questions, how, what, when, compact
8:06keywords focuses on putting up dozens of
8:08pages that sell to searchers who are
8:10actually looking to buy. These pages
8:13rank on Google and convert so much
8:15better than normal that when I
8:16discovered this years ago, I couldn't
8:18believe this was allowed. It's less
8:20work, too. The average compact keywords
8:23page is only 415 words. Compact Keywords
8:27is a 13-hour deep course on getting
8:29sales with SEO. A customer recently
8:32said, "Each lesson is dense with
8:34information. You're giving years worth
8:36of experience boiled down into 15 to 30
8:39minute lessons with no filler or fluff.
8:42I feel like I'm gaining a new
8:44superpower. Compact Keywords is about
8:46setting up an SEO funnel that brings you
8:48sales for years and years and years. It
8:51works with AI. It's less work than
8:53traditional SEO and it makes way more
8:56money. You can get it now at
8:58compactkeywords.com.
9:00Back to the podcast. And so, so what is
9:03what does a Google business profile for
9:05White Spark look like?
9:06>> Uh, well, it's got all of our photos.
9:08It's got a bunch of reviews, 300 and
9:11some reviews. And we use it mostly as
9:13like a review place. So the the benefit
9:16for us is if someone Googles our
9:17business name, Whitespark, I want that
9:20knowledge panel to come up, the Google
9:21business profile to come up on the right
9:22hand side where people can review our
9:24read our reviews. But the other stuff
9:26that you can optimize in there is your
9:28product section. You can add products.
9:30We have products so we added them. Even
9:32if you have services, technically Google
9:35doesn't want you to use the product
9:36section for services, but it has high
9:38visibility, so we like to use it and we
9:41do it for all of our clients as well.
9:42There's a services section. You can fill
9:44that out. There's a Q&A section. You can
9:46fill that out, though. Q&A is going
9:47away. Google's uh deprecating the Q&A
9:50section right now. People, honestly,
9:53like this week, people are I'm seeing
9:55the reports coming like, "Hey, where'd
9:56my Q&A go?" So, Google's getting rid of
9:58that. But there's just all these
9:59sections on your Google business
10:00profile. It's kind of like your second
10:02website. You got your website,
10:04everything. Tell people everything you
10:05can about your business and what you do
10:07and why you're the best. Do the same
10:08thing on your Google business profile
10:10because a lot of time, like on a branded
10:12search, great. Or on a keyword search
10:14now, you're just compete. It's like it's
10:16like a list of all the Google business
10:17profiles. You want to keep that as
10:18optimized and uh up todate and
10:22conversion focused as you can.
10:24>> Yeah. and and you don't even it it's
10:26honestly fine or even good if your
10:30Google business profile is competing
10:32against your website for the same
10:33keywords because you're maximizing
10:34coverage.
10:36>> Yes. Uh [laughter] there's this thing
10:38called the diversity update which is
10:40interesting. Uh so Joy Hawkins revealed
10:42this I don't know maybe like a year ago
10:45and the fascinating thing about this is
10:47Google doesn't love to display the same
10:49URL on the same page. So if your Google
10:54business profile URL is your homepage,
10:57then actually that can have a hard that
10:59can make it so that your homepage
11:00doesn't also rank in the organic
11:02results. So you got the local pack with
11:04your homepage and then you got the
11:06organic results with your homepage. That
11:08that's a conflict for Google. So they'll
11:10usually show one. They'll either show
11:11your Google business profile or your
11:13homepage. And so you can actually uh
11:15fight yourself. And the the trick there
11:17is to
11:19either target your homepage more broad
11:21and try to get service pages ranking um
11:25in the organic results or get a
11:27dedicated landing page for your Google
11:30business profile. But I would never
11:31explore that unless you're dealing with
11:33what's like if you notice it. But it's
11:35worth looking into. It's like oh are we
11:37are we crushing our organic really? The
11:39other thing to consider is that
11:43the blue links under the local pack are
11:45so buried they almost don't matter. You
11:48got the ads. First you got the local
11:50services ads, then you got the regular
11:52ads, then you got the local pack, then
11:54you got the people also ask and then you
11:55got the image and the video carousel and
11:58somewhere like in the basement of
12:00Google's results, you'll see the blue
12:01link. So I would say focus on the local
12:04pack.
12:05>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I that's
12:06why I just like uh as like a practice I
12:09don't think it's like the biggest the
12:11biggest deal if you're targeting the
12:13same keywords but that begs the
12:15question. So are you a fan of targeting
12:19of of targeting really valuable keywords
12:22with the homepage? Um yeah it depends.
12:26Um the homepage usually is the page that
12:29has the best ability to rank because it
12:32has most of the link equity, right? all
12:34the links that you have around the web
12:35are going to the homepage. And so I
12:36would typically focus my primary
12:39keywords on the homepage. Um and then I
12:42would also do that in the local pack. Um
12:44it just
12:46ideally I will rank in the in the local
12:50results and so I target the Google
12:53business profiles website URL to the
12:55homepage because that's the most like
12:58what is the most valuable keyword? Let's
13:00say you're a personal injury lawyer in
13:02Dallas. Then the title tag on your
13:04homepage should be Dallas personal
13:06injury lawyer and the the homepage
13:09should be the page that is being linked
13:11to on your Google business profile.
13:13That's generally the strategy. It's only
13:15kind of like a edge case where you might
13:17check for this diversity update problem.
13:21>> What what is the um I have so many
13:24interesting questions to ask you. What
13:26is the what's the second the second most
13:29important factor?
13:30>> All right, great. Let's look at the list
13:32here.
13:35Proximity of address to the point of
13:38search. So, this is definitely a topic
13:40in local search. Some people don't quite
13:42understand how this works. So, [snorts]
13:44let's say you are a let's we'll go with
13:48a law firm again. You're a law firm and
13:50your business like imagine a map of your
13:52city. You're located
13:54north west of the city on the map.
13:58You're never gonna rank on the
14:00souththeast side of the city. Forget it.
14:03It's almost impossible because of the
14:05way proximity works. So someone sitting
14:09on the northwest side of the city that
14:11types in personal injury lawyer, they
14:13might find that you might rank quite
14:15well because you're close to them. But
14:17the further that person searching gets
14:20from your business location, the less
14:21likely your business is to appear in the
14:24results. And this is why the industry
14:26has developed what's called grid
14:28ranking. So grid rank reporting shows
14:31you how you rank across a whole area on
14:34the map. And you're typically going to
14:36rank quite well right around your
14:38location. And the goal is to expand that
14:41radius to rank in as wide a possible.
14:44And you typically do that with
14:45prominence signals like more reviews,
14:48more links, more online mentions, just
14:50trying to build your prominence. So
14:52relevancy of course is is foundational.
14:54You've got to make sure that your
14:56website is relevant for the terms and
14:57your and your Google business profile is
14:59optimized. But then expanding your
15:00radius typically comes down to
15:03um prominent signals and it also comes
15:07down to the competition. So and it also
15:10comes down to what keyword. If you're
15:12trying to go for like a head term like
15:15personal injury lawyer that's very
15:17competitive. But if you're trying to go
15:18for something super niche like bicycle
15:21accident attorney, like you're getting a
15:23little bit more niche with it, then you
15:24can typically rank in a wider area
15:26because the competition for some of
15:28those terms is is lower. So, it's really
15:30a factor of that. But proximity is the
15:32number two lo local search ranking
15:34factor. And it's true. It's like it's
15:36just like how close you are to the
15:38searcher. Massive ranking factor.
15:41Um, how much do how much do you think
15:43Google looks at the location where a
15:46when a where a review was given?
15:49>> I think they look at it very little. I
15:53don't think it's a huge signal in the um
15:59in in anything. And I think that one of
16:02the reasons that they can't really lean
16:04into it as a signal is because some
16:06industries and they don't typically do a
16:08lot of different differentiating the
16:11algorithm by category. So in some
16:13industries it's quite common to get a
16:16lot of reviews from outside of the
16:19state, outside of the country because
16:21let's say you are, you know, a famous
16:24cafe, your cat's deli. You you know what
16:28where most of the people that are eating
16:29there, they're not they're not from New
16:30York. Most of the people eating there
16:32are coming from outside. They're they're
16:34like, "Oh yeah, I'm in New York. I'm
16:35going to go to Cat's Deli." And so
16:37>> I'm from New York. I love Cats Deli. But
16:39no, you're right. You're right. It's
16:40it's a tourist hot spot.
16:41>> Yeah. Exactly. So any of these places
16:43are getting the reviews from all over
16:45the place. And so would they demote
16:47Cat's Deli? No. If you're if you're
16:49typing in if you're looking for Deli in
16:51New York, Cas Deli has to come up. And
16:53so that would actually be a negative on
16:55Google's algorithm if they put too much
16:57impact.
16:57>> When when does it when does it become a
17:00problem or does it not does it never
17:02become a problem?
17:03>> Um it can be a spam signal. So if you
17:05are let's say a local plumber and you're
17:08getting reviews from all over the
17:09country, that's very sus. And so you
17:12definitely don't want to have that. And
17:15so those could be spam signals that
17:17Google picks up on. But there's also
17:19usually those accounts that are leaving
17:20those reviews, they have other signals
17:22that help Google identify. And so
17:24they're they're working on actually
17:25we're seeing a real sweep happening
17:26right now where Google they appear to be
17:29working on their review filtering
17:31algorithm and the SAT. The unfortunate
17:34thing that happens is a lot of
17:36legitimate reviews get picked up in the
17:38sweep and so business owners are
17:40complaining, "Hey, where did my reviews
17:42go? Those were legitimate reviews and
17:44I've lost a hundred reviews and it
17:45sucks." But um this is happening while
17:49um they're just trying to fix the re
17:51fake review problem because it's a
17:54massive growing problem.
17:56>> Yeah, they they just put in this tool
17:59report uh report what what's it called?
18:02report um you know what I'm talking
18:04about.
18:04>> Yeah, the review you could report
18:06actually I should know
18:07>> where people where people are uh they're
18:10char they're asking for money in terms
18:13>> and the ransom. Yes.
18:14>> Yeah. Yeah.
18:15>> So I can't remember exactly how they
18:16phrased it on the forum itself. But
18:19yeah, there's this problem where people
18:21will just flood your Google business
18:22profile with onestar negative reviews
18:25and then as a business owner you're
18:26freaking out and then they message you
18:28through the WhatsApp which is connected
18:29to your Google business profile and be
18:30like, "Hey, if you give us a thousand
18:32bucks, we'll remove all these reviews."
18:34Total scammy, awful business. Um, and a
18:38lot of business owners are um they don't
18:41know what to do. And so Google has
18:43provided a form where you could report
18:45this behavior and they're very good at
18:47cleaning it up. they will. So if if that
18:49ever happens to you, don't pay. Just
18:52submit it on the form.
18:53>> Yeah. Don't even don't even respond to
18:55them. Google like has directions on how
18:56to do it. So if you if you search that,
18:58you'll be able to find that.
18:59>> Yeah.
19:00>> So what are what are more what's more
19:01advice on how to expand your your area.
19:05>> Sure. Yeah. So I mentioned the prominent
19:08signals. Um other thing is uh your
19:12content on your website. So making sure
19:14that you're expanding your website
19:15content. So you could build what are
19:17called service area pages. So let's say
19:18if I'm going back to that lawyer that's
19:20located in the northeast, but there's
19:22all these neighborhoods kind of on the
19:24surrounding. You could what you can do
19:25is run a grid rank. See that? Okay, I'm
19:28ranking in, you know, positions one
19:30through three in these areas. These
19:33outer areas, I'm like, I want to hit
19:35those. I want to expand my radius. So
19:37you might make service area pages um in
19:40those neighborhoods. And so you'll
19:42you'll you basically duplicate your car
19:44accident lawyer s page in that
19:48neighborhood. And so that strengthens
19:50your signals. The other thing would be
19:51to try and get reviews.
19:53>> So that that affects that affects Google
19:55business profile.
19:57>> Yes. Yeah. 100%. What you have on your
19:59website. It's like imagine this. This is
20:01the way you need to think about it. Your
20:02Google business profile is like a mini
20:05taster of what Google knows about your
20:08business. And in in the Google business
20:10profile, you can put in some data.
20:12Google's like, "Thanks. Tell me a little
20:13bit about your business." So, you put
20:14that in and then Google is like, "Can
20:17you feed me the full database about
20:19everything about your business?" And you
20:21you say yes. And you put in the website
20:23URL field and it's like connecting a
20:25database full of info to your Google
20:28business profile. So, Google leverages
20:30everything on your website on your
20:33Google business profile to rank your
20:34business locally in the local results. I
20:37actually did a really cool test. This I
20:38think it was maybe my first YouTube
20:40video I ever made where I showed this
20:43awesome effect. So I had set up um log
20:46tailing on my Unix on my on my server.
20:49So I had I had the Unix server running
20:52and I was tailing the log. And so if you
20:54tail the log, it's just like putting out
20:56lines of every hit that's hitting on
20:58your website. And then if you g it to
21:00just Googlebot, then it'll just be
21:02quiet. And then every once in a while
21:04you'll see ting ting. you'll see Google
21:06bot appearing in the results, right? And
21:08so what you can now do if you have that
21:10thing running, then you go to your
21:12Google business profile and you make a
21:14change. So if you save save the name,
21:16change the category, change your hours,
21:18whatever you do. If you make any change
21:20on your Google business profile, you'll
21:22see an explosion of activity on your
21:25website. Google immediately crawls your
21:28website, the whole damn thing. They just
21:30>> wow
21:30>> crawl the whole website. So, wow.
21:33>> It's super fascinating to watch that
21:34happen in real time because it's kind of
21:36like, oh, they've they've changed their
21:38category on their Google business
21:40profile and then Google doublech
21:43checkcks your website to validate the
21:45information. Everything kind of
21:46reshuffles. Your website is the database
21:48that feeds your Google business profile.
21:51So, absolutely, people need to
21:52understand that. The other cool thing is
21:55that it doesn't work the other
21:56direction. So if you make changes, if
22:00you make changes to your website, it
22:02will positively impact your local pack
22:06and local maps rankings. If you make
22:09changes to your Google business profile,
22:11it will do nothing for your organic
22:13rankings
22:14>> because it does it direction. No,
22:16>> it has no effect.
22:17>> No. So anything you change like let's
22:20you get let's say you get a flood of
22:21like 500 new reviews overnight, you're
22:24it'll have a very positive impact. Well,
22:26you probably get spam filtered, but
22:28[laughter]
22:29but let's say you have all these
22:30positive singles on your Google business
22:31profile. It doesn't impact your organic
22:33rankings.
22:34>> So, so wait, wait. So, even if you have
22:36like a lot of good reviews on a Google
22:38business profile, you're not going to
22:40have bad be your your site isn't going
22:42to rank higher. Is that
22:43>> correct? Your website will it's like
22:45it's like that data is not available in
22:47the organic algorithm. Google doesn't
22:49care.
22:50>> But it is good for reputation
22:52management.
22:52>> Exactly. Yeah. It's conversions. It's
22:54reputation management 100%. Yeah.
22:56>> And and to what extent is are LLMs
22:59picking up things on a Google business
23:01profile?
23:02>> Well, it depends on the LLM. So, if we
23:03think about Google's LLMs, Gemini,
23:06absolutely AI mode, um AI overviews,
23:10um all of these areas, I actually
23:13believe this is one of the main reasons
23:15Google's going to win the AI race
23:17because they have this massive data set
23:21in Google business profiles. And it's
23:23amazing to watch Google leaning into
23:25that right now. They're launching new
23:27features in Google business profile.
23:28They have new advocates out there that
23:30are like promoting Google business
23:31profile stuff. They are really
23:33recognizing the value of their Google
23:36business profile data set that nobody
23:38can compete with. Chat GBT. You run like
23:40local searches in chatbt. It's like, oh
23:43well, we leveraged Yelp or Facebook. But
23:46nobody gives a crap about their Yelp
23:48page anymore or their Facebook page.
23:50They're all focused on their Google
23:51business profile and they keep it up to
23:52date. They they send people to review on
23:55Google. So Google has a massive moat
23:58there and um but let's talk about the
24:02other LLM. We are seeing evidence that
24:03Chat GPT is I think looking at Google
24:06business profiles or considering your
24:08reviews there. But for a broader LLM
24:11strategy, diversifying reviews is smart.
24:14Don't put all your reviews into only
24:17Google. Um, you should be getting
24:18reviews on whatever the prominent
24:20industry um sites are in in your
24:23industry. So, you know, if you're a if
24:26you're a home services contractor, it be
24:27like Angie's List or Trusted Pros. You
24:30know, there's a bunch of these like
24:32industry specific sites out there that
24:34you should typically be listed on and
24:36trying to drive at least a percentage of
24:38some of your review requests over there.
24:39So, there's two ways you can do it.
24:41Every fifth review, you know, you send
24:43most of them to Google. That's that's
24:44the where you want to send most of them.
24:46and every fifth you might send to one of
24:47these other sites. The other way you can
24:49do it is people are already if they
24:52leave you a review, you've responded to
24:53the review. Hey, thanks so much. Really
24:55appreciate your review. And then you
24:56email the guy and be like, hey, thanks
24:57for leaving us that review on Google. It
24:59was awesome. Would you mind leaving us a
25:01review on superawyers.com
25:03as well? [laughter] So that's the way to
25:05kind of diversify your review strategy.
25:08>> That's smart.
25:09>> It's really smart.
25:10>> You were saying something else about uh
25:12about expanding the the location area.
25:15Yeah. So localized content for sure. Um
25:18that's the big one. It's it's quite hard
25:21actually. So localized content will do
25:22it and then the rest is just an order of
25:25magnitude of um prominent signals above
25:29the competition. So that's links for the
25:32most part getting really high quality
25:34links to your website. Um mentions. So
25:38getting great mentions sometimes it's
25:41like a mention without a link for
25:42example. Like you might get listed in
25:43the local newspaper, but they didn't
25:45link to you, but that's still valuable.
25:47So those uh and reviews,
25:49>> you said links to your website.
25:51Do do the links need to actually say
25:54locations?
25:55>> Not necessarily.
25:56>> That you serve?
25:57>> No, that's helpful. Anchor text is
25:59definitely a thing. So if you can get
26:00anchor text
26:01>> even even like so you have like a you
26:03have a backlink to your site saying that
26:05you serve this area. It's a little bit
26:07further away than what's normal.
26:09>> Yeah. And something like that will
26:10actually will actually in will actually
26:13influence where your Google business
26:15profile shows up
26:17>> theoretically. Yes. I don't think I've
26:19ever seen anyone do real data study on
26:22that impact. But the concept is seems
26:26valid. Yeah. That you know if you can if
26:28you can get other so if you what you can
26:30do is you can make that service page on
26:31your own website and you say we service
26:33this neighborhood. we we you know let's
26:36say you're a painter right and you're
26:37like we service this neighborhood
26:39>> and then you get other websites
26:42mentioning that you service that
26:43neighborhood that's valuable another
26:46slept on tactic is citation description
26:50optimization so you have all these
26:52directory listings right so you're
26:54listed on yellow pages and map quest and
26:57super pages all these directories are
26:58out there right what most people have
27:01done is they took their standard
27:03business descript description that was
27:05written 20 years ago.
27:07>> Uh,
27:08Johnson Brothers Painting Company, blah
27:10blah blah blah. Like there's description
27:13that they wrote 20 years ago. And they
27:16just pasted that into every directory.
27:18>> Well, okay. Now, I would like to rank in
27:21these other neighborhoods.
27:24>> Update that description. That
27:25description has not been looked at for a
27:27long time. And that's the other sites on
27:30the internet are now talking about your
27:31business. You can think of it that way.
27:33You can control that. You can say so you
27:35should use what are called semantic
27:37triples in the description. So you
27:39should explain like who you are, what
27:41you do. Use the subject, object,
27:43predicate, subject, predicate, object,
27:45whatever format. So really be very clear
27:48about describing what you are and what
27:50you do. And it just like that whole
27:51thing should be entity optimized. And it
27:54should talk about all the different
27:56areas that you service. That would be
27:58really valuable thing that you could do
27:59because you can control all those. You
28:01might have a hundred business listings
28:02out there. And so taking a sweep through
28:05your citations and updating the
28:06description is one way you can uh
28:08improve that relevancy signals for those
28:12other areas you want to rank in.
28:14>> And your and your software will help
28:16people do that, right?
28:17>> Our software, well, our service will do
28:19that. We have a team of 20ome people
28:23that are doing business listing
28:25management. And so if you submit an
28:26order, our team will do what's called an
28:28update. and we'll go through and update
28:30all your all your citations.
28:31>> S Samrush local allows you to uh I
28:35thought maybe it was similar to Samrush
28:36local which allows you to update all of
28:38them at once.
28:39>> Yes. So Samrush local uses Yex which
28:43it's basically like a white label of
28:44Yex. Uh there's another one called Uber
28:46All and you can sign up for that
28:49software and they will push them up.
28:50that this it's a little bit of a sham
28:53[laughter] because sometimes uh these
28:56listings are already claimed and if a
28:58listing is already claimed and one of
28:59these citation softwares tries to update
29:02that it'll be like oh no you can't cuz
29:04it's claimed by the owner and so what
29:06the software does it just makes a new
29:07listing and so now you got duplicates
29:09and
29:10>> that's why we do it manually [laughter]
29:12>> because you can just clean it up
29:14properly and we actually have human eyes
29:15on it and they look at every site and
29:16they look for all your existing listings
29:18and they they they'll crush duplicates
29:20in the process and so it's just a
29:22cleaner way but
29:23>> but it's a difference between our team
29:25taking six weeks to do it and software
29:27>> and it's a budget if you're like a
29:29startup if you're a startup yeah too so
29:31like uh
29:32>> and it could it could be a good place
29:34for people to start and then when they
29:36have more money then they can pay people
29:37to do it manually.
29:38>> Yeah. Yeah. It's uh it's almost the same
29:41price though software versus our
29:42service. Yep.
29:44>> Yeah. Really?
29:45>> Yeah. Yeah. It's basically like Well,
29:47one of the things with the software is
29:48you have to keep paying. Ours is a
29:50onetime fee, but and it's it's almost
29:52the same price. Yeah, they grow a little
29:53bit.
29:54>> What's what's what's yours?
29:55>> Well, it depends on the package. It's
29:57about 3.49 for a onetime update of what
30:00we call our premium package, which does
30:03mo the most important sites. So, I would
30:04say that. Yep.
30:06>> Okay. Uh, how important do you believe
30:10or do you see backlinks to be to a
30:12Google business profile? Well, don't
30:14link to the profile itself. That's a
30:16waste of time. But linking to your
30:18website is quite important. Let's see
30:20where does it come up on the list.
30:24Quantity of reviews here. Let me just
30:26look. One of the things you can do on
30:28the local search ranking factors um is
30:31you get the list and you can actually
30:32search and you can see where things
30:34ranked. So quality slash authority of
30:36inbound links to the GBP landing page
30:40URL. Do not confuse this with the Google
30:42business profile. Whatever page you have
30:44on your Google business profile links to
30:46that, the quality and the authority of
30:47those that ranks in on the list of 180
30:51factors is number 25. The 25th most
30:54important thing. So, it's important.
30:56It's definitely uh going to have a big
30:59impact. I think it becomes more
31:00important in those competitive
31:02industries. It's it's a competitive
31:03differentiator because imagine this.
31:05Every every
31:08business in a competitive industry has
31:10optimized their Google business profile.
31:11They've optimized their website. They
31:13got their title tags optimized. They got
31:14the headings. They got lots of content.
31:17Every field's been filled out on their
31:18Google business profile. And so once
31:20everyone's got the same foundation, how
31:23do you set yourself apart? Links,
31:25reviews, those are really the two big
31:27levers you continue to pull. But you
31:30said so links to a website are the 20 25
31:34most important 25th most important
31:36>> in the local
31:38in the in the local packs ranking
31:40factors. If I go to local organic
31:42factors, so that's just like ranking in
31:44the organic results.
31:46>> Then number three, quality, authority of
31:48inbound links to domain is the third
31:51most important thing. So you know, you
31:52think about traditional SEO, it's
31:54website content relevancy and links
31:57basically. That's really what it comes
31:59down to. And so the links are definitely
32:01very important and valuable for your
32:03local rankings as well. And they
32:05certainly become a competitive
32:06differentiator. I put links a little
32:08higher on the list than 25 personally.
32:10Yeah,
32:11>> pretty critical.
32:11>> What are what are common mistakes you
32:13see being made with service pages with
32:16service area pages?
32:18>> Um,
32:20that's a good question. Uh, I think the
32:22number one mistake is not making them
32:24that people don't uh actually build them
32:27out. There's huge value in creating
32:28these pages. Like I talked about
32:30earlier, it's like your website is
32:32Google's database to populate
32:35information about your business in the
32:37knowledge graph. And so, um, I think the
32:41biggest mistake is not having service
32:43pages and then if you do have them, not
32:46optimizing them well. People will often
32:48say that a big mistake is just having
32:51this like duplicate content where you
32:53take the same page and you make the you
32:55make the exact same page, you just
32:56change the city name.
32:58The reality is that Google's kind of
33:00stupid that actually works. So that
33:04there was
33:04>> it works but they but it literally goes
33:06against like they have their doorway
33:08>> doorway pages policy.
33:10>> It's true. So there's this doorway page
33:11thing, but it for some reason in local
33:14like I don't maybe they stopped like
33:16once Matt cuts quit then they stopped
33:18enforcing doorway pages and so it seems
33:21like like the recent tests have been
33:22done and they're like well I know Google
33:24says this is a problem but it they seem
33:27to work but honestly in today's world
33:30with LLMs
33:33it's pretty lazy to just swap it out the
33:36the the the
33:38city name or the neighbor neighborhood
33:40name. That's some lazy ass work. You you
33:43can rework this with chat GBT. Write a
33:45new version of the page, put it in your
33:48own words, but then just kind of rewrite
33:50different versions of it. And those
33:51pages are really valuable. So I I think
33:54they're useful to have to make these
33:56service area pages, and most people are
33:58not doing them.
34:00>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. All right, so we
34:02covered the first two.
34:04>> I know there's so many factors. Let me
34:07>> Well, yeah. Well, there's just so many
34:08there's so many there's so many nuances
34:10to local SEO compared to to just like
34:13traditional SEO and um and it's changing
34:16constantly. So, um no, this is this I'm
34:19I'm enjoying this episode so much by the
34:21way, like especially when you were
34:23sharing like how uh how a website
34:26impacts a Google business profile.
34:29>> Yeah, that's some cool stuff. People
34:30don't people don't even realize that.
34:32Yeah. How how um how vitally important
34:36is a consistent nap in 2000 2026? How
34:42vitally important is a consistent name,
34:44address, phone number?
34:45>> Thank you for asking this question. It
34:47is
34:50quite unimportant is what I would say.
34:53So um I if you are thinking that
34:57consistent name, address, phone number
34:59is important for rankings, please know
35:02that that's not true. That is no longer
35:04the case. It used to be and that's where
35:07the myth started and it persists to this
35:10day. And if you ask Chad GPT, it'll tell
35:12you, oh yeah, you you definitely got to
35:14keep your nap consistent. And that's
35:16because the the internet is full of
35:18people saying this. Um, and it's just
35:20been this propagating sort of advice
35:23that is no longer true. It was true in
35:25the past, but Google has is very good at
35:28partially matching and giving you credit
35:30for a citation. Okay, the name is this.
35:33The website URL is this. It's got the
35:35phone number, but the address is
35:36different. You still get credit for
35:38that. Google's like, "Yeah, that's this
35:39business." Google can associate a
35:41business through many things. The only
35:44reason that NAP consistency can be
35:46important is because if you've got your
35:49name, address, phone number incorrect on
35:51some of the really key sites, the
35:52industry specific ones, your Facebook
35:54page, your LinkedIn page, some of your
35:56social medias, your own website, if
35:59you're not consistent, if things are
36:00wrong there, your Google business
36:02profile will get automatically updated
36:04by Google. Google will be like, you
36:06know, I know you said your phone number
36:07is this, but all of these really key
36:10sources are telling me that your phone
36:12number is this, so we're just going to
36:13update it on your Google business
36:14profile. So that happens all the time.
36:16And that's really the main reason why
36:18nap consistency is important is
36:20important. Um, and so but for a
36:23rankings, not really important.
36:25>> Yeah, great answer. Yeah. Um,
36:28man, this this is so awesome. All right.
36:31So, uh, third third biggest ranking
36:35signal
36:36>> number three on the list is
36:39this is a good one. Keywords in the
36:41Google business profile business title.
36:44So,
36:45>> wow.
36:46>> This is
36:46>> best Thai food. Best New York City tasty
36:49food.
36:50>> Yes. Best tie food near me.
36:51>> Best of Thai food near me. Yeah.
36:53>> So, so this is for real. It is a
36:57disturbingly
36:59high impact signal that Google has
37:02really overemphasized. So Google
37:04basically let's say you your business in
37:09uh Dallas called Acme Plumbing. No,
37:12you're just called Acme Brothers.
37:14[laughter]
37:14You don't even have the word plumbing in
37:16your name. You're just Acme Brothers.
37:18Well, you you registered your company.
37:19You called yourselves Acme Brothers.
37:21Let's say you're ranking in the local
37:24result but not great. You now go and you
37:27change your business name to Acme
37:30Brothers Plumbing Company Dallas. Now
37:35when someone search plumbing company
37:36Dallas, you're going to shoot to the
37:38like you're going to be ranked number
37:39one like number two, number three.
37:41You're going to be in that pack. But the
37:43problem is that lots of people are doing
37:44this now. So it becomes less
37:45competitive. But keywords in
37:48>> are more more competitive, less
37:50effective. Yeah, it's way more
37:51competitive and the the factor is less
37:54effective as you said. Yeah. So that is
37:57the it's a massive factor. I will say
38:00though that I just did a big update for
38:02a brand who has 700 locations and the
38:05impact of updating their name like we
38:08did a full rebrand. They actually
38:10changed their name. We changed
38:12everything in all the places. We pushed
38:13all the changes to Google business
38:15profile. I have a feeling Google's
38:17actually dialed down this factor which
38:19is good. We've all been, you know,
38:21shouting for Google to do this for a
38:23long time because it was too impactful.
38:26But so far on the local search ranking
38:27factor is still definitely a factor. We
38:29saw some definitely some upward
38:30movement. But the strategy here is you
38:33if you're going to do it, you got to do
38:34it nor like
38:37legitimately. You got to actually
38:38rebrand your business because if you
38:40just go and you add the keywords to the
38:41business name, you risk getting your
38:43profile suspended because that's not how
38:45you represent yourself in the real
38:46world. That's a violation of Google's
38:47guidelines. You can get suspended. So
38:49what you need to do is actually change
38:51your name with the government registry
38:53on all your your banking documents, your
38:56utility statements, all everything,
38:58your logo, your website, all your
39:00citations. And then after you do all
39:02that, then you can go and change it on
39:03Google. And then like I said earlier,
39:06once you change it on Google, Google's
39:07going to crawl everything and be like,
39:09is this really legit? And then if it
39:11matches, you're fine. He won't get
39:13suspended.
39:13>> Yep. Do so do you think it's worth uh
39:18like jamming a bunch of keywords in an
39:20unnatural way into into your business
39:23name?
39:24>> Not in an unnatural way. Um
39:26>> well like you what you just described
39:28Acme what what did you say? Acme
39:30plumbing Dallas
39:31>> plumbing company Dallas. I 100% think
39:34that's worth it. I would do that. I
39:36would
39:36>> Acme Brothers Plumbing Company Dallas.
39:38>> Yeah. Or you know some variation of
39:40that. But if that was my client, Acme
39:41Brothers, I would 100% say, "Listen,
39:45I know this is a bit of work, but it's
39:47so worth it. It's going to have a
39:49positive impact." Um, and so you should
39:51do it. Actually, I I have a couple
39:53examples of this. Well, I was doing a
39:55YouTube series about a year ago, maybe
39:58two years now, uh, with a makeup company
40:00and we renamed them and it was just like
40:03their local ranking grid went from red,
40:06it just lit up all green like across the
40:09whole state just by changing their name.
40:11And so it it's just a massive factor
40:13that Google puts too much emphasis on.
40:15>> What do you think about exact match
40:17domains, especially in local?
40:19>> Mostly useless. Yeah, there not a lot of
40:22value in the exact match domain. People
40:23will fight me on that one for sure. I
40:25think there's some value in it. I think
40:26it's mostly a little bit of anchor text.
40:29So people link to your website and then
40:31the instead of linking with anchor text,
40:35the link with the raw domain like the
40:37URL, that's where I think most of the
40:39value comes from. But uh I don't think
40:41that just having an exact match domain
40:43is that big of a signal. That's another
40:45like kind of myth that's carried through
40:46from the early days because it used to
40:48be a major factor, but Google fixed that
40:51because it was too easy to manipulate.
40:54>> Yeah. It was even said during the uh
40:56Google API leak and you know it's it's
40:58funny because this was revealed during
41:00the Google API leak that EMDs get
41:02demoted and and but people still argue
41:05still people still they're like no I've
41:06seen it I've seen it work and actually I
41:08agree with you and I don't think it's
41:10just anchor text. I think it's like you
41:12probably put your keyword in your page
41:14title in your H1. You put it in all of
41:16the
41:16>> vital places. You optimize the entire
41:19page for that keyword because that's the
41:21that's the e that's the name of your
41:23domain. So, you're just optimizing a
41:24page properly and that's why you're
41:27that's why you're ranking and it's in
41:28spite of the EMD. The EMD is just like a
41:32red herring for all the other stuff you
41:33did. Yeah.
41:34>> Yeah. Uh okay, number number four.
41:38>> You know what I'm going to do? I don't
41:40think I'm gonna give you number four.
41:41I'm gonna give you some of the big
41:42things that changed.
41:44>> These these are really important things
41:46to know that are new for
41:492026 that were not on people's radars
41:52previously. This is really critical
41:54stuff that you should know about local
41:56search and what has changed. And I'm
41:58going to lead with what I think is the
42:00most important change that many people
42:02are not quite aware of.
42:05Let's say you have a business with 5,000
42:09reviews and you have a business with 500
42:12reviews. A lot of people think, "Oh,
42:14that business with 5,000 reviews is
42:16definitely going to outrank the business
42:17with 500 reviews." Review quantity is a
42:21signal and it's important, but the
42:23business with 500 reviews can outrank
42:26the business with 5,000 reviews
42:29from this signal that we think Google
42:31has really cranked the dial on. It's
42:33called review recency. When was the last
42:35time this business got a review? And so
42:38if this business with 500 is getting
42:40like seven new reviews every single
42:42week, they're getting like a flood of
42:43new reviews coming in. And this business
42:45with 5,000 is getting hasn't got a
42:48review in the last three months.
42:50Google's 100% going to rank this one.
42:52And why would they do that? Because this
42:54business is dying and this business is
42:56hot. That's what Google cares about. So
43:00the, you know, Google wants to rank like
43:02what is hot right now. So businesses
43:04that maybe are not even operational
43:07anymore, you will see the reviews slow
43:09down. And so Google sees that as a
43:12signal. So the the takeaway there is do
43:14not do review bursts. Do not like get
43:18your mailing list and then every six
43:20months you're going to be like, "Hey,
43:21can you leave us a review on Google?"
43:23uh what you should do is make sure it's
43:25part of your process and you're asking
43:26every customer for a review on every
43:29transaction. So that is the key uh
43:31takeaway there. Um don't do it in
43:34bursts. So just making sure you having
43:36reviews coming in and really leaning
43:38into review strategy. I would say
43:39reviews is probably the biggest thing.
43:41Like people are always like how do I
43:43rank better in local results? It's
43:45reviews, reviews, reviews, reviews. It's
43:47that is the number one thing. And get
43:49getting lots of reviews on a regular
43:50basis. making sure you get lots of text
43:53in the review, like good quality content
43:56reviews, and ask people to add photos or
43:58videos to their reviews. That if you can
44:01do anything, just really leaning into
44:04reviews and focusing on reviews, high
44:06quality reviews, lots of them with
44:08photos and videos, you will [snorts]
44:10absolutely see your rankings go up over
44:12time. Nothing more important than that.
44:15>> Dope. Dope. Uh, I wanted to ask I wanted
44:19to I have a bunch of questions. Okay. I
44:21I wanted to ask this a question I meant
44:22to ask before. What do you think of
44:25businesses that are like they're kind of
44:27new and they're trying to put up a bunch
44:29of uh they don't have that much domain
44:31authority and they're trying to put up a
44:33bunch of different service area pages
44:36just like all over the country like all
44:37over like a bunch of [clears throat]
44:39like kind of far away from each other in
44:41a bunch of different states.
44:42>> Sure. Total waste of time. Don't don't
44:43do that.
44:44>> You're never going to rank outside of
44:46your G like in the local results in your
44:49general area. So if you are like really
44:53brand new, I wouldn't even make service
44:55pages yet. You gota that's kind of like
44:57a later stage strategy. Like just focus
45:00on your local area. Build up your
45:02authority in that area. Build up some
45:04reviews. Populate your Google business
45:06profile as much as possible. Start
45:08trying to get some links to your your
45:09website. Make sure your website's fully
45:11built out and fully optimized. And then,
45:13you know, then you can start building
45:15out these other pages. But it's it's a
45:17bit of a later stage thing. So, and you
45:19also should just give up on trying to
45:21rank like 50 miles away. Forget it.
45:24Like, you're never ever going to rank
45:25there. If you want to rank in the local
45:26results 50 miles away, you need a new
45:28location. Open a whole new Google
45:31business profile in that other area of
45:35the city or other town that's nearby.
45:38You must have an actual profile in
45:40there. And then boom, you got a whole
45:42now you got two grids. You got you're
45:43ranking good here, you're ranking good
45:45up there. And so you absolutely must
45:47have another location if you want to
45:49rank.
45:50>> Do you have like uh like I mean so do
45:53you have another website for that
45:55location? Yeah. You just and then and
45:57then you end up becoming a multilocation
45:59business. This is really common in law
46:01firms. Law firms will have multiple uh
46:03offices in multiple cities across a
46:06state. And so now you have one website
46:09because you don't want to build links to
46:10two websites. So, you got one website
46:12and you just make location pages for all
46:14of uh the different locations, satellite
46:16locations. That's the way to do it.
46:18>> Yep. Awesome. Awesome. Okay. I want I
46:19want your I I want your uh your take on
46:22this. This is something I don't know if
46:23you've seen me share this on on
46:25Instagram. It always goes viral. If you
46:27want to make a local SEO video that is
46:29that's going to go tip
46:32>> this lit. No, literally I like I've made
46:34I've made content on this like 10 times.
46:37It always goes viral. I credit Bill
46:39Hartzer for sharing it on the SEO sub.
46:42Yeah. Yeah. He came on the show to talk
46:43about it. Yeah. So he so he said um he's
46:47like a a hot local SEO tip is tell
46:51everyone to use driving directions on
46:54their phones to to go to to go to your
46:57location
46:58>> and and and literally you there are
47:01people that you will pay who have like
47:03hundreds of phones and they will use
47:05hundreds of phones to go to your
47:07location with driving directions and
47:10this boosts your boosts your rankings a
47:12ton. It is true. It is true. Bill is not
47:15wrong. The uh so Holly Starks was the
47:19first one to kind of reveal this local
47:21search hack. So she did this cool thing
47:23where she had a 100 phones in her
47:25[laughter] car and drove to a business
47:27and watch the rankings take off. And so
47:30the reason this works is because Google
47:32is desperate to find signals that are
47:34difficult to manipulate. And so that
47:37this is a signal that they absolutely
47:39because you know
47:39>> does it still work?
47:40>> It still works. Yes. So, it still works.
47:43Driving direction still works. So, the
47:44how do you how do you take advantage of
47:46it? Well, one way is if you have an
47:49actual physical office and you have
47:51staff going to that office every day,
47:54then don't let them get in their car
47:56without without pulling up Google Maps.
47:59>> Oh my god. Every day.
48:01>> Every day. Yeah. All the staff come.
48:02Let's say you got like five team
48:04members, 10 team members all coming to
48:06your office every single day. That's 10
48:08driving directions per day you could be
48:09getting. And so in the morning, uh,
48:12>> yeah, but they're all associated. That's
48:14like they're going to see that the same
48:15account is doing it every
48:17>> reasonable. Yeah, I don't know if Google
48:18is that sophisticated about it. And so,
48:21but I have seen it work. And then, oh,
48:23they they they leave for lunch,
48:24[laughter] they need to do walking
48:26directions back to the office at lunch.
48:29And so, if you can get your staff to do
48:30that, that's that's one way to do it.
48:33>> Friends and family as well.
48:34>> Yeah. Friends and anyone that's just
48:36trying to get people to come to the
48:37office. And that's why it's actually a
48:38hard factor to manipulate. That's really
48:40the only tip I have is trying to get
48:42your staff to do it. Um, I don't know.
48:45I've thought about using Task Rabbit or,
48:47you know, some of these uh food delivery
48:49places and just like try to just think
48:51about different ways to get people to
48:53use driving directions, but you got to
48:55do it through through the Google Maps
48:56app. You got to click the button. You
48:57have to complete the drive. It's not
48:59enough to just click the button. You
49:02have to complete the drive. And so, it's
49:04it's an interesting factor. 1,00% it
49:06works. Uh, and Google will probably
49:09crush it eventually. But yeah, it's
49:11>> if you want to if I I hope you'll uh I
49:13hope you'll make content on it on IG.
49:15>> Yeah, you're putting out those videos,
49:17dude. I'm telling you,
49:18>> some testing of it. Yeah, it's
49:19interesting.
49:20>> This this subject matter always slaps.
49:23Always.
49:23>> That's cuz it's very exciting. It's
49:25like, oh my god, I never thought of
49:27that. [laughter] It's really It's this
49:28like edgy thing. It's a little hacky and
49:31spammy. So, it's kind of fun that way.
49:33>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So something else some
49:36some other things that might surprise
49:38people.
49:38>> Yes. So the other one is a big problem.
49:42I think it's a bug in Google but if if
49:45you are a service area business like a
49:46plumber and your address is showing
49:48[snorts] on your profile like you have a
49:50physical office you generally will rank
49:53better than if you don't have an off an
49:55address showing on your profile. So this
49:57idea of being a service area business um
50:00is problematic. The jury is still out
50:03about what is happening here. here. I
50:04think it's a bug um that if you remove
50:06your address from your Google business
50:07prof, people see the rankings disappear.
50:09Often times your rankings just move
50:11somewhere else. They just go to a
50:13different area of the map. And so if
50:16you're trying to rank and thing and
50:18you're tracking your rankings, you're
50:19like, "Oh, we disappeared. Oh, well,
50:20some reason we just we now rank in
50:22another town." And that's because when
50:23you originally registered your profile,
50:25you were in that town. So when you
50:26remove your address, Google loses your
50:27pin. They don't know where to rank you.
50:29And so chaos ensues and you tend to not
50:32rank very well. And so that's a big one.
50:34If you can get a physical address, that
50:36is helpful. If you're a service area
50:37business, that needs to be signage. You
50:40must have signage on it. Must be a real
50:42office. So that's the trouble. It's
50:43expense, right? Um that's an important
50:45factor people need to be aware of. And
50:47related to that factor, people also need
50:49to be aware that setting service areas
50:52like there's a whole section in your
50:53Google business. You can say these are
50:55my service areas. I service this town
50:57and that town and and these
50:58neighborhoods and these zip codes. that
51:00has zero impact on ranking. Google does
51:04not use that to rank you better in those
51:06areas that you set. So you'll see a lot
51:08of people on TikTok promoting this as a
51:10tactic. Oh, you want to rank in this
51:12neighborhood that's over there, just set
51:14the service area. Google doesn't even
51:16look at it. And so it's important for
51:18people to know that that's a local
51:19search myth. And in fact, the the report
51:21has a whole section on myths. Was
51:24supposed to I need to actually tell my
51:26team. Can I was actually that was going
51:27to be one of my questions is is some of
51:29the some of the biggest uh local SEO
51:31myths.
51:32>> Yeah, we missed that actually in this
51:34version of the report. I'll tell you how
51:35to get it. You just go to the local P
51:38pack maps uh section and then you scroll
51:41to the very bottom. Everything at the
51:42very end
51:43>> the report will be linked to those are
51:44the description and so it'll be like
51:46yeah these are things that don't
51:48actually impact rankings.
51:51>> So what are what off the top of your
51:52head what are some other myths? I'll
51:53give you my common. Yeah. So service
51:55areas, they have no impact. Geotagging
51:58photos, God, I hate that one. [laughter]
52:00That
52:00>> Yeah, I made an episode on this
52:01yesterday. I shared it with you.
52:03>> Yeah.
52:03>> So geotagging photos is one of those
52:05absolutely stupid myths. Um
52:10people think that like volume of Google
52:12posts or stuffing keywords in the Google
52:15posts will have an impact on rankings.
52:17No, zero impact on ranking. Is not used
52:19in the ranking algorithm. You do Google
52:21post for conversions, not for rankings.
52:24Um, keywords in the description of your
52:26Google business profile. It seems like
52:28such an obvious one. It's like, oh well,
52:30I want to rank my Google business
52:32profile better, so I'll put my keywords
52:34into the Google business profile
52:36description. Well, it makes no impact.
52:38So, Google does not use the description
52:40um in your in the ranking algorithm. And
52:44then I'll give you one more, which is
52:46stuffing keywords into the owner
52:49responses to reviews. Someone leaves you
52:51a review, it'll be like, "I had a great
52:53experience at this business." And then
52:55you reply and you say, "Thank thanks for
52:58using our Dallas plumbing services,
53:00Sarah." [laughter] So putting Dallas
53:03plumbing services in your response, it
53:05has no impact. Google doesn't use the
53:07responses in the ranking algorithm. It's
53:09important to respond, but the keywords
53:12in the response unnecessary.
53:14>> But if the reviewer was like, "This is
53:16the best soand so in Dallas,"
53:18>> I think. So you get there's lots of
53:20benefits. I actually did a post about
53:21the benefits of keywords and reviews. I
53:23love that. But as a direct ranking
53:26signal, that's debatable. Uh Joy Hawkins
53:29did some really interesting research
53:30where she showed that having this
53:32keywords in the reviews don't
53:34necessarily directly impact rankings,
53:36but I did a post on search engine land
53:38where like the seven reasons why you
53:40absolutely want keywords in your
53:42reviews. You definitely want them.
53:43There's lots of benefits.
53:45>> Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Any anything
53:47else that any act? I mean, there's
53:49probably a billion.
53:50>> So much. So much. You definitely got to
53:52look at the report, it is the absolute
53:55holy grail.
53:56>> What's just like what are the If you
53:58were to say like the top three things
54:00that everybody does wrong with local and
54:03it just drives you crazy and you see it
54:06you you see it all the time and it's
54:07like it's like 80% of what your agency
54:10is fixing.
54:11>> Yeah. I think [laughter] I don't see
54:14that much. Like I can't give you three.
54:15I would say not knowing about review
54:17recency is a big one right now. People
54:19are thinking about volume of reviews,
54:21not recency of reviews. I think that's a
54:23huge one. Um, some obvious ones like
54:26that small businesses don't quite know
54:28is like they will make this services
54:30page. They'll be like, you know, you get
54:32their website and then on one we have
54:33one page called services and there'll be
54:35like a paragraph and then a bullet point
54:38list of services with no content on
54:39them. It's like you're never going to
54:41rank for any of those services because
54:43you mention them once on one page. Make
54:45a dedicated page for every service and
54:48then make dedicated pages for every
54:50subservice and then build those pages
54:51out really comprehensively so that those
54:54pages are answering all the kinds of
54:57questions that people have about that
54:59service. That a huge mistake is not
55:01enough content. That is a really bad
55:04one. And so
55:05>> how about how about real photos versus
55:07stock photos?
55:08>> That's a good one. Yeah, good call. I
55:10like that one. So, and stock photos are
55:12awful. Also, AI photos, awful. It is
55:15absolutely worth getting a photographer
55:19into your business and to take photos.
55:21It is also
55:22>> or just telling people on the job to
55:24just whip out their phones.
55:27>> Yeah, exactly. That was my next point.
55:29You like it's just so easy to get real
55:31photos of your business. You can just
55:33take photos and videos while you're out
55:35there. I would also say that's another
55:37big miss. No video. You definitely want
55:40to have video content on your Google
55:42business profile. And so you should make
55:44it a habit of creating short form video,
55:47short short videos and putting them on
55:49your Google business profile. They
55:51autoplay in the maps app. So if you're
55:53scrolling businesses and maps, anyone
55:55that has a video that'll autoplay. It's
55:57a real attention grabber. They'll bring
55:58them into your profile. Super valuable.
56:02And this these videos can be repurposed
56:04with like the name of the service being
56:06provided
56:08like you put it on YouTube shorts and it
56:10can rank literally for the name of the
56:12service that is being provided.
56:14>> Yeah, I would say video is another huge
56:16miss. Like long form YouTube videos,
56:19every business should have a YouTube
56:20channel in 2025 and every business
56:23should be creating video content and
56:26optimizing the titles and the
56:27descriptions for that video content. You
56:29see it show up in the SERs all the time.
56:30It's just it's just like another massive
56:32database of content that Google's now
56:34using to help rank local businesses.
56:36They they look at your website, they
56:38look at your socials, they look at your
56:40YouTube channel. You really should be
56:41leaning into all that in 2025.
56:43>> Yeah, it's so important. Uh what what
56:46else are businesses doing wrong that
56:48you're like just some other common
56:50things?
56:51>> I think you tapped me out. I think
56:53missing video, missing
56:56uh content.
56:57>> Oh, what what are Okay. What should what
56:59should local businesses be doing with
57:01the blog blogs on their sites?
57:03>> Ah yes, blogs on your website. I would
57:06be careful with blogs uh for the concept
57:09of sort of semantic dilution. So make
57:13sure that whatever you're putting on
57:14your blog posts are directly related as
57:18like an extension of your service pages.
57:20That's how you should do local business
57:23blogging. So you got a service page for
57:25let's say it's hot water tank
57:26installation and you can you only really
57:28want to have so much content on that
57:30page. You don't want it to be
57:31overwhelming but there's all these other
57:33topics and so imagine what's called a
57:35frequently asked question section and in
57:37that you'll be like here are the
57:38frequently asked question. You're going
57:39to have a little blurb about with the
57:41answer and for more information click
57:43here which then goes to the blog post
57:45which is the full details on that.
57:47That's how I would suggest you do local
57:49blogging. So imagine like silos of topic
57:53areas across your website. Hot water
57:55tank installation is one of those.
57:57You're going to have a service. You're
57:58homepage is going to have a block which
58:00links to your hot water tank page. That
58:03page is going to explain everything
58:04about the service and why you're the
58:06best and why they should hire you and
58:07how what's entailed. Then it'll have
58:09FAQs, other questions, and each of those
58:12goes to the blog post. And then your
58:14blog section itself should have a
58:16category for hot water tank
58:17installation. So, this is how you should
58:19be doing local business blogging. Do not
58:22go into weird topics that are tangental.
58:26Stay focused on your primary topic area
58:28and make sure your blog posts are
58:30focused on that. And do not fall into
58:32the trap of like, I need to pump out one
58:35blog post a week. That kind of BS. It's
58:38totally unnecessary. Just think about
58:42content strategy, not an ongoing blog
58:44strategy. And then if you kind of hit
58:46the end of the this is all I really want
58:48to say about this topic. Just keep
58:50refreshing your existing content. That's
58:52a more valuable approach than pumping
58:54out new content. Refresh old content.
58:56Bring it back to life. Good content uh
58:59on your blog can be resurfaced, but it
59:01needs to be linked to the rest of your
59:03website and it needs to be updated on a
59:06regular basis. How about how about So
59:08you you were talking about like a
59:10thorough FAQ. Something that that I've
59:12heard from some people and then other
59:14people say don't do this. So like I'm
59:16curious your perspective is actually
59:18creating an individual page for one for
59:22one FAQ question.
59:24>> So it's kind of what I'm talking about
59:27here. Uh it's kind of the same thing.
59:29You're you're if we're talking about
59:30building a dedicated page, that's where
59:32I actually think the blog is. And it
59:34doesn't apply to all questions. that
59:36only applies to FAQs
59:38that are that warrant a full page of
59:43content.
59:44>> That's the way I would put it. So,
59:45sometimes they're just short answers
59:46like, you know, do you do emergency
59:49plumbing? Yes. [laughter] But you should
59:52actually have a page about emergency
59:53plumbing. So, you could even do that.
59:55Yes, we do. Uh here's full details on
59:58our emergency plumbing.
59:58>> This is what you can expect.
1:00:00>> Yeah, but that should be another page.
1:00:01So, all this like internal linking.
1:00:03Okay, that's another one I missed.
1:00:05huge slept on tactic is good proper
1:00:08internal linking throughout your
1:00:10website. That is a huge factor that
1:00:12actually has a very big impact on both
1:00:14your organic and your local rankings. So
1:00:18where does that come in? Ah man 44.
1:00:22>> Oh [laughter]
1:00:24>> but everyone knows internal but but I
1:00:26like I'm I'm agreeing with you. It's
1:00:28it's massively important.
1:00:29>> I think it's a real slept on
1:00:30opportunity. So, it's one of the biggest
1:00:31things you could do if you take a sweep
1:00:33through your website, find all the
1:00:35places where topics are mentioned and
1:00:37make sure those internally link to your
1:00:38service pages. Really important and
1:00:41really valuable that will just help
1:00:43Google really understand your whole
1:00:45website better. So, internal linking is
1:00:47a is a is a thing that I really highly
1:00:49recommend. In terms of the your original
1:00:51question about the FAQs, I think that um
1:00:54it depends on the question and I like
1:00:56building out some pages for any topics
1:00:59that warrant a more information.
1:01:02>> I like that answer a lot rather than
1:01:04like what some people do is they just
1:01:06blanket any FAQ question its own page.
1:01:09Yeah.
1:01:10>> So So you run the risk of having all
1:01:11this thin content.
1:01:12>> Exactly.
1:01:13>> And Yeah. And it it's just unnecessary
1:01:16because because FAQs are longer tail and
1:01:19uh yeah it's they're not competitive.
1:01:21>> And another reason why I think it's very
1:01:23unnecessary is because you're that's a
1:01:25real traditional SEO mindset [snorts] in
1:01:28the modern view of SEO. It's
1:01:34LLM rank content chunks. They don't rank
1:01:38web pages in the way that the old SEO
1:01:40used to work. And so on a single service
1:01:44page, you might have a content chunk
1:01:46with a header and some bullet points and
1:01:48a and a description that answers that
1:01:51question really well. You don't need a
1:01:53dedicated page for it because it's it's
1:01:56on that one page and the LLM will read
1:01:59that and they will understand and now
1:02:00you can get
1:02:00>> but how will how will the LLM how will
1:02:02the LLM find it?
1:02:04>> Because it's on your service page. So
1:02:05LLM are ingesting content and
1:02:08associating it with your business.
1:02:09Imagine like it's more like a knowledge
1:02:11graph of your website rather than a
1:02:14knowledge of of sort of topics and
1:02:16chunks of information about your website
1:02:19rather than pages. So it's almost like a
1:02:21paradigm shift between page driven SEO
1:02:24and content driven SEO.
1:02:26>> The LM but like the AI is going to be
1:02:30doing a web search,
1:02:31>> right? And so but
1:02:34the web search I'm think I'm little
1:02:37future thinking here. the web search,
1:02:39we're gonna flip a switch where all the
1:02:41Google results are going to be driven by
1:02:43AI. It's then it becomes the same
1:02:45paradigm. Google's own AI results will
1:02:48be driven in this in a very similar way.
1:02:50They will reference pages, but it's more
1:02:52about the chunks on the page than the
1:02:54actual page optimization. So, as long as
1:02:56you have a page that is topically
1:02:57relevant, Google knows where to find the
1:02:59information and you have that topic on
1:03:01one page, it has the ability to rank.
1:03:04doesn't need a dedicated page in the in
1:03:06a new paradigm of search as we move
1:03:08forward.
1:03:09>> Do you think do you think do you see
1:03:11like a future where open AI has its own
1:03:14index?
1:03:15>> Yeah, I think I actually saw something
1:03:17about that that they are crawling like
1:03:18like they're building a massive index. I
1:03:20think yes they're trying to do that
1:03:22actually and I think I also read
1:03:24somewhere that's like in 2025 building
1:03:26index of a web is not a huge thing like
1:03:31you know if you have the resources of
1:03:32someone like open AI you can do it and
1:03:34so it used to be just like this huge
1:03:36competitive like nobody could compete
1:03:38with Google because they have an index
1:03:40of the web but I think that now these
1:03:43companies can do it and they're building
1:03:45their own index and so yes I think so
1:03:49>> that'll Cuz something that's something
1:03:51that's just super entertaining right now
1:03:54is all the different traditional SEO
1:03:56spam tactics that don't work for SEO but
1:03:59work for work for LLMs.
1:04:01>> That is very interesting. Yeah,
1:04:02>> because they don't have they don't have
1:04:04the experience that Google has.
1:04:05>> And I actually think that's one of the
1:04:06reasons why Chad GPT is going to
1:04:08slightly they're just going to have a
1:04:10very hard time competing with Google. So
1:04:12Google has 20 years of
1:04:16figuring out how to fight spam and they
1:04:18can bake that knowledge into their own
1:04:21LLM. So the LLM results on Google are
1:04:24going to be better. And so uh they have
1:04:27this huge power because on the local
1:04:29side with Google business profiles, but
1:04:31they also have a huge power on the
1:04:34traditionalformational
1:04:36side with all of their spam fighting.
1:04:38And I just think it's one of the it's
1:04:39going to be very hard for Chad GPT. I I
1:04:42think they're in big trouble actually
1:04:43because they are bleeding money. They
1:04:46are not making enough money and their
1:04:49costs are projected to just go through
1:04:51the roof. It's just all investment money
1:04:54right now. And Google is making tons of
1:04:57profit and revenue and building the same
1:05:00thing at the same time. And so it's like
1:05:03JBT is in trouble in my opinion. They
1:05:06like everyone's just going to use Google
1:05:08as the default.
1:05:09>> I had uh I had Nick Eubanks on last week
1:05:12and he said the same thing. He's like
1:05:14he's like Google is going to win.
1:05:16>> It feels pretty sure to me. Yeah.
1:05:19>> What are your favorite This is a fun
1:05:21question. I love asking this and I don't
1:05:23think you're going to answer the last
1:05:24part of it. Nobody does. Some people do,
1:05:26but All right. Your favorite white hat,
1:05:30gray hat, black hat link building
1:05:32tactics.
1:05:33>> Oh, okay. Uh, white hat link building. I
1:05:36would say sponsorships. Um, that's a
1:05:39real feel-good link building. So,
1:05:41there's a local uh organization in your
1:05:44city that needs support. You support
1:05:47them with a financial donation and you
1:05:49get a link from it from their website
1:05:52back to your website. You see this all
1:05:53the time. And so, you can actually find
1:05:54them pretty easily. You just go uh in
1:05:57URL sponsors. You type this into Google
1:06:00in URL colon sponsors and space your
1:06:04city name and you'll find a whole list
1:06:06of pages that people that list their
1:06:07sponsors. And so these are all local
1:06:09organizations. That's my favorite. White
1:06:11hat. It's it's pearly white because
1:06:13you're helping local organizations as
1:06:15well. Uh gray hat would probably be and
1:06:18they do
1:06:18>> Wait, sorry. I I have a I have a
1:06:20question though, but would the wouldn't
1:06:22it be like rail sponsored?
1:06:24>> No, they don't do that.
1:06:26>> Okay. [laughter]
1:06:27>> Yeah, that's true. They don't. They're
1:06:28supposed to, but they don't.
1:06:29>> Yeah. Yeah. These organizations, they
1:06:31just give you a link. They all always do
1:06:33followed. Yeah. If they're And you can
1:06:34check on the page itself before you
1:06:36decide I'm going to give them a thousand
1:06:37bucks, right?
1:06:38>> So,
1:06:40that's a that's a good one. Those are
1:06:41good uh uh links. Gray hat. I'm going to
1:06:43call those the
1:06:46>> the guest post network links. And so,
1:06:49these are there's there's link
1:06:51marketplaces that you can go and buy
1:06:53links from. And so, these are all sites
1:06:55that will sell a link to you on their
1:06:57website. and you can go and get those.
1:06:59And it's a tactic that tends to work.
1:07:02You want to focus in on industry
1:07:04specific sites. So, if you're a plumber,
1:07:05you want to find sites that talk about
1:07:06plumbing. Their whole topic area is
1:07:08plumbing. So, you want to try and get
1:07:09links on those sites and you buy them.
1:07:11You just you you pay a couple hundred
1:07:13bucks. You give them a piece of content
1:07:14and that content has a link to your
1:07:16website on it and they publish it. And
1:07:18that's
1:07:19>> You said there are marketplaces.
1:07:20>> Yeah, there's lots of them. Just Google
1:07:22like link marketplaces, you'll find
1:07:23them. Oh, and then there's all these uh
1:07:25guest post um submission link insertion
1:07:29companies. You could search those and
1:07:31then they do all the work for you. They
1:07:33find the the links, they place the
1:07:34links, they write the content. So,
1:07:36that's a service, too. So, those are
1:07:38pretty gray because they're not high
1:07:40quality.
1:07:42You're right. I don't have a good one
1:07:44for the last one. actual black hat would
1:07:46be
1:07:48like link injection. Like you hack
1:07:51someone's website and [laughter] then
1:07:52and then and then after you hack their
1:07:54website, you put up all these pages on
1:07:56the site that link to link to your site.
1:07:58I'll give you one. It doesn't work
1:08:00anymore, but it's exciting and fun to
1:08:02talk about. Martin McDonald is a legend
1:08:04in SEO and he once gave a presentation
1:08:07on WCON that I saw that blew my mind. It
1:08:09was this awesome link building tactic.
1:08:12What he had done is he had created a
1:08:14plugin for a PHP my bulletin which was
1:08:17some kind of like forum. It was like a
1:08:19PHP forum that if you had a PHP website
1:08:23you could just get this thing and have
1:08:25it on your website. And it was installed
1:08:27on tens of thousands of websites. PHP my
1:08:31bulletin or something like that, right?
1:08:33And at the everyone that had this little
1:08:35plugin installed,
1:08:37uh, he had a little footer link web uh,
1:08:40you know, forum provided by PHP
1:08:42bulletin, right? And so [clears throat]
1:08:45that whole snippet of text was
1:08:48dynamically driven from his own web
1:08:50server. And so what he would do is he
1:08:53would use this overnight. He would be
1:08:56like, "Oh yeah, um I got I'm going to
1:08:59work for this ticket selling companies
1:09:01and Madonna is is in concert in New York
1:09:05City." And so overnight he would change
1:09:07that anchor text to like buy New York
1:09:10Madonna tickets. And that would
1:09:12instantly like 10,000 links would say
1:09:14that and they would link to his source.
1:09:17That was the greatest black hat link
1:09:18building trick I have ever heard. And it
1:09:21just like I was like what an absolute
1:09:24maniacal genius you are Martin McDonald.
1:09:26So I love that one.
1:09:28>> Yeah. Some of the things that people
1:09:29have done with WordPress plugins are uh
1:09:31>> Yeah.
1:09:32>> Yeah. Crazy.
1:09:33>> Doesn't work anymore.
1:09:34>> What actually what you know while we're
1:09:36on this this topic of spam tactics, what
1:09:39are some uh I mean we we discussed
1:09:42driving directions. Are there any other
1:09:44local spam tactics that still work?
1:09:47>> Yeah, driving directions is the big one.
1:09:48Uh fake reviews sadly they still work.
1:09:52Fake reviews are a big big problem where
1:09:54people will just buy fake reviews. And
1:09:56so the companies are getting more
1:09:58sophisticated with how they you know
1:10:00build up their accounts before they
1:10:02start using them to generate fake
1:10:04reviews. And so um it's a huge problem
1:10:06particularly in legal and home services
1:10:09people buying fake reviews because they
1:10:11work. But there Google's getting more
1:10:14sophisticated and um they're working on
1:10:17this problem. And so while they work
1:10:19now, what kind of collateral damage
1:10:21might you see in the future?
1:10:23>> Yeah,
1:10:23>> that's the problem with that tactic. Um,
1:10:26other other tactics would be related to
1:10:30>> and it doesn't have to be spam, too. It
1:10:32could also just be like shortcuts.
1:10:34>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, the other one would be
1:10:37uh click-through rate manipulation. So
1:10:40trying to get people
1:10:42>> to click through to your website and or
1:10:44to your Google business profile, spend
1:10:46time on your profile. You there's even
1:10:48companies you can hire that will will do
1:10:50this. So they they'll they'll hire like
1:10:52microworkers to run a Google search, go
1:10:55to the go to the local results, find
1:10:57your business, click on your business,
1:10:58spend time clicking around your
1:11:00business. That's kind of a like a hacky
1:11:02thing that definitely Google is using
1:11:04those signals, behavioral signals on
1:11:06your profiles to help rank businesses.
1:11:08It's like, oh, looks like hundreds of
1:11:10people really like this business and
1:11:12they every time they run this keyword
1:11:14search, they're spending time searching
1:11:16out and looking at this business. Oh,
1:11:18let's rank this one a bit higher. It's
1:11:20one of the signals that Google looks at
1:11:21and it does work. The trouble with that
1:11:24tactic, as soon as you turn off the taps
1:11:26of the clicks, then all those rankings
1:11:28go away. So, it's like one of these
1:11:29things that like once you once you get
1:11:31on that hamster wheel, you got to keep
1:11:32it running.
1:11:33>> This is my last question. Last question
1:11:35is uh I know you said you didn't want to
1:11:37do this, but I'm just I I still would
1:11:40love to hear it from you. The 10 most
1:11:42important local SEO ranking factors it
1:11:46from your from your super recent list
1:11:48from literally a month ago.
1:11:49>> No, happy to do this. I think it's it's
1:11:51great to just go through them really
1:11:52fast. So, you got primary category
1:11:54number one, proximity. How close are you
1:11:56to the business uh when you run the
1:11:58search? Uh three keywords in the title.
1:12:01Four is uh having an address in the city
1:12:04of search. Pretty obvious. Uh five, I
1:12:07didn't talk about open hours, but that's
1:12:08a huge factor, which is if your business
1:12:12is closed, you are definitely not going
1:12:14to rank very well. So, your opening
1:12:15hours have a big impact on your
1:12:17rankings. When you're open, you rank
1:12:18better. When you're closed, people that
1:12:20are open will rank above you. So, that's
1:12:22a huge one. Number five. Uh number six
1:12:24is your uh high Google ratings. Like,
1:12:27you have a 4.8, a 4.9. That is a factor,
1:12:30but I think it's more of a conversion,
1:12:32like a behavioral factor, because when
1:12:34you have a high rating, people are more
1:12:35likely to click on your profile. I think
1:12:36it's the clicks that are driving them.
1:12:38So, that's number six. Number seven is
1:12:41what I talked about with your address
1:12:43showing. So, either you're show your
1:12:44address and if you remove your address,
1:12:46you're a service area business. That
1:12:48seems to have a negative impact on your
1:12:49ranking. Number eight is additional
1:12:52Google profile categories. I did not
1:12:54talk about that, but it's key. making
1:12:56sure that you have you you set your
1:12:59primary properly and then anything else
1:13:01you do that is a related service that
1:13:03it's actually your business does it make
1:13:05sure you add that as an additional
1:13:06category very valuable
1:13:08>> how how thorough do you go with those
1:13:10>> um similar as possible you only have
1:13:12nine additional categories you can add
1:13:14and so and Google has a set list of
1:13:17categories to choose from and so I would
1:13:19definitely um add anything that is
1:13:23related to the business I'm always
1:13:25looking for additional categories. It's
1:13:26great. Number nine is a quantity of
1:13:30Google reviews. Number 10 is proper
1:13:33placement of the map pin. This is a
1:13:35crazy one. Uh there is a scam where
1:13:37people can drag your map pin.
1:13:39>> Yeah. So they'll they'll go to edit your
1:13:42Google business profile, suggest and
1:13:44edit. They can do this through Google
1:13:45Maps and then they'll be like, "Oh, the
1:13:46business is not located here." They just
1:13:48drag the map pin to the middle of the
1:13:49ocean. And then they hit save. If Google
1:13:52accepts that, you don't rank in your
1:13:54city anymore. you now rank in the middle
1:13:56of the ocean. So if you got in a boat
1:13:57and you went to that spot that they
1:13:58dragged a pin to, you'd rank number one,
1:14:01but nobody's out there searching for
1:14:03your business. So [clears throat] map
1:14:05pin placement is very key. So it's worth
1:14:07checking and it's worth using a software
1:14:09like Whitespark's uh local platform will
1:14:13monitor for any changes on your Google
1:14:14business profile. So whether scammers
1:14:16are trying to do it, it's only a dollar
1:14:17a month and this software just is like
1:14:19protection to make sure any change that
1:14:21happens to your Google business profile,
1:14:22you get alerted. Google doesn't always
1:14:24alert you when these changes happen.
1:14:26That's number 10. And then number 11 has
1:14:28to be mentioned. Recency of reviews. Uh
1:14:31this actually massively increased last
1:14:34uh this edition of the survey went
1:14:37straight to number 11. Previously it was
1:14:39lower down. And I also think services,
1:14:42they're not on this list, but that's
1:14:43another lever you can pull on your
1:14:45Google business profile is making sure
1:14:47you really populate the services section
1:14:49of your Google business profile. So that
1:14:51was be the key list for local.
1:14:54>> Darren Shaw, thank you so much for
1:14:56coming on the show.
1:14:57>> Edward, thanks for having me. It was a
1:14:59pleasure. Always love chatting about
1:15:01this stuff.
1:15:02>> Where where should everybody find you?
1:15:04>> Yeah, we I am uh at whitespark.ca. So
1:15:07definitely check out our software and
1:15:08services there. We have awesome stuff.
1:15:10Uh for all that, you can find me on
1:15:12YouTube. You can find me on uh LinkedIn
1:15:15for sure. Have I do a lot of posting on
1:15:17LinkedIn every day. Um, I'm on Facebook,
1:15:21I'm on Tik Tok, I'm on Instagram, I'm on
1:15:23all the platforms. So, you just
1:15:24[laughter] look up Aaron Shaw SEO on all
1:15:26the platforms and you'll find me there.
1:15:28And I'm I'm basically trying to be like
1:15:30Edward, publishing content every day.
1:15:32>> Let's go. And the uh and the report will
1:15:34be linked to in the description for this
1:15:36episode as well. Darren, you are a
1:15:39legend. Seriously, super grateful for
1:15:40you coming on and sharing all of this
1:15:42stuff. I'm sure a lot of people found
1:15:44this extremely valuable. This was an
1:15:48amazing episode. Great. So, uh, thank
1:15:50you.
1:15:50>> Glad I could glad I could come and share
1:15:52some of the stuff I know.
1:15:54>> Um, stick around when I hit stop
1:15:56recording because this will have to
1:15:58upload. But, uh, for everybody watching
1:16:01and listening, this is episode 881
1:16:05of the Edward Show.
1:16:07>> What?
1:16:08>> 881 days in a row. Darren, doing this
1:16:11podcast. I have not missed a single day
1:16:13since starting 881 days ago.
1:16:16>> Okay, we know who the real legend is
1:16:17then. That's
1:16:18>> No, come on. Come on. But but it is it
1:16:21is it is it is a pretty intense
1:16:25marathon. I'm not going to lie.
1:16:26>> That's impressive, man. 800.
1:16:28>> Yeah, I really I've done it I've done it
1:16:30with headaches. I've done it feeling
1:16:31sick. I've done it while traveling. I've
1:16:33done it in airports. I've done it in
1:16:35restaurants and cafes. Not missed a
1:16:37single day since I have started.
1:16:39>> That's amazing.
1:16:41Yeah. And actually for the um you I mean
1:16:43since since you watch my my socials, I
1:16:46haven't missed a day posting on
1:16:48Instagram for Tik Tok since starting
1:16:50like,
1:16:52150 days ago. I started November 1st,
1:16:542022. Consistency just makes the biggest
1:16:57It's like the craziest difference
1:16:59>> because you never know what's going to
1:16:59hit and when it's going to hit. Do you
1:17:00do you repurpose some of the old posts
1:17:03that were good before?
1:17:04>> Dude, all the time. all the I mean I so
1:17:08all of my all of my posts back up to
1:17:10Google Drive.
1:17:10>> Yep.
1:17:11>> And and then like and actually so
1:17:13something that Tik Tok will do is it
1:17:15will remind you what you posted one year
1:17:17ago, two years ago, three years ago.
1:17:19>> And so like every day I look at what I
1:17:22posted a year ago, two years ago, three
1:17:25years ago on TikTok and I see if any of
1:17:27them are worth reposting. And a lot of
1:17:28the times they are and I repost them and
1:17:31and it'll still do well on LinkedIn.
1:17:33It'll still do well on like reposts
1:17:35don't do as well on Tik Tok or or on
1:17:37YouTube shorts. Yeah.
1:17:38>> But on Instagram and Facebook and
1:17:41LinkedIn, they still do very well.
1:17:43>> Sure.
1:17:43>> Yep.
1:17:44>> And I'll tell you something else that's
1:17:45crazy is posting entire podcast episodes
1:17:49to my Facebook page cuz I have 47,000
1:17:52followers on my Facebook page.
1:17:54>> Yeah. And I and I've just started
1:17:56posting podcast.
1:17:58>> Yeah. Dude, I like um on Instagram I
1:18:00just posted like a 12minute podcast.
1:18:02Yeah.
1:18:03>> And uh and it and it automatically
1:18:05crossosts to to Facebook gets a lot of
1:18:08engagement on IG and uh and and on
1:18:11Facebook and and the 12minute podcast.
1:18:14Those are the or the podcasts, the long
1:18:16form. Those are the things that build a
1:18:18lot of trust.
1:18:19>> That's true.
1:18:19>> What about like a one hour podcast? You
1:18:21putting that up?
1:18:22>> Yeah, absolutely. Actually, so Ran
1:18:24Fishkin came on the show. I put that on
1:18:26the Facebook page. Uh, I had like an
1:18:29amazing uh amazing show with an
1:18:32[clears throat] SEO named David Quaid.
1:18:33Yeah. And I put that on the Facebook
1:18:35page that did really well. So like and
1:18:37that was two hours. I So So uh yeah, I
1:18:41put like the super long there's no
1:18:43length limit to videos on Facebook.
1:18:45>> The only problem with Facebook is that
1:18:47it forces everything into a real and I
1:18:49want it on the main feed and so but I
1:18:51guess it doesn't matter. Just publish
1:18:52it. just
1:18:54>> I I think though it's still I I think
1:18:56people still like new followers can
1:18:58still see it.
1:18:59>> Yeah, of course.
1:18:59>> On Facebook, not on IG.
1:19:01>> Yeah, for sure. So, yeah. I And so for
1:19:04Instagram, if you have a horizontal
1:19:07video, you just put like black above and
1:19:09below and just publish it.
1:19:11>> Uh no, I I literally just export the the
1:19:14video as I do normally in landscape. Y
1:19:17>> and then I and then I just publish it on
1:19:19IG.
1:19:19>> Okay.
1:19:20>> Yeah. And it'll still and um it now long
1:19:23videos over three minutes will not show
1:19:25to new followers on IG,
1:19:27>> but I think they will on Facebook, but
1:19:30not but uh the reason I started doing
1:19:32this is I saw Neil Patel putting putting
1:19:34up his podcasts.
1:19:35>> Yeah.
1:19:36>> On his IG and they were doing really
1:19:38well and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I got I
1:19:40got to do this, too."
1:19:41>> Yeah, totally. Well, we we do a podcast
1:19:43every week uh me and Cla Carile about
1:19:45the latest in local search. I should
1:19:47have plugged it, but
1:19:48>> Yeah. Well, you could plug it now. We're
1:19:50still recording this. I'm going to share
1:19:51this, too.
1:19:52>> Okay. Uh, [laughter] everything we just
1:19:54talked about. Okay, cool. Yeah.
1:19:55>> Uh, so, uh, yeah, I have an awesome
1:19:58local search podcast. You definitely
1:20:00need to follow it. It's called the
1:20:01Whitespark Local Update. Claire Carile
1:20:04and I have a delightful time once a week
1:20:07talking about the latest happenings in
1:20:09local search. So, if you care about
1:20:10local search, give the podcast a listen.
1:20:12You can find it anywhere you get your
1:20:14podcast. It's awesome.
1:20:15>> Yeah, I can include that in the
1:20:17description, too. So feel free to just
1:20:19share anything that you want me to put
1:20:20in.
1:20:20>> Um, all right.
1:20:22>> 881 days in a row. Thank you so much for
1:20:24watching. Thank you so much for
1:20:26listening. I will talk to you again
1:20:28tomorrow. Bye now.

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