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Living with Confidence & Going All In - Matthew McConaughey (4K) — Transcript

by Chris Williamson · 20,749 words · 3,175 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00So, I mentioned to you that this is
0:02episode 1,000.
0:03>> Yeah.
0:04>> It's been 7 and a half years. Uh, we
0:06just crossed a billion views the other
0:08day as well.
0:09>> Congrats, man.
0:10>> And as a little surprise to you, we
0:13wanted to take you back to an
0:16environment that you probably know at
0:19least a little bit well.
0:21Ah,
0:23Cooper's Place, Alberta, Canada, where
0:26we shot it. We planted production
0:28planted all those corn fields too.
0:30They're as far as yeah I could see.
0:33And this is the road Cooper drives up on
0:36the way out. And that's that Han Zimmer
0:39countdown. 10 9 8 Leaving children to
0:45follow dream
0:48liftoff.
0:50>> I love how quick that is. That
0:51transition from from leaving to going. I
0:53think that's so cool. Yeah, I think it
0:56was, you know, Chris's version of tying
0:58the human
1:01drama. What would you do? A father
1:03leaving children to go do what they know
1:05they were meant to do.
1:06>> Mhm.
1:07>> And leave this earth and then from there
1:09on time changes. And yeah, at the end of
1:12this
1:14shoot, when
1:17it was wrapped and it was clear, we had
1:19no more shots, no more scenes on this
1:21location,
1:23my family and I were in my Airstream on
1:26the set is where we lived. We got uh um
1:30at the edge of base camp, we turned our
1:33Airstream to face out to the mountains
1:35and right behind us is your medical and
1:37your food, whatever you need from
1:38production. But we stayed extra few days
1:41and just hiked it and stuff. And one of
1:43the things that was fun is I let my son
1:45probably I don't know what believe I was
1:48seven, eight at the time.
1:50>> We got in my truck and I let him
1:53drive through these corn fields as fast
1:56as he wanted.
1:58And he was going 360 all around cuz I
2:01had checked. I was like they go, "No,
2:02it's it's for as far as you can see.
2:04It's just like the salt flats. Hit it."
2:06And I've got some video of that and some
2:08pictures. It was top. Yeah.
2:09>> Unreal. Why'd you say life rhymes?
2:15>> I think Mark Twain said that first,
2:17didn't he? A version of that. History
2:20rhymes.
2:21Um
2:24seems for as much as we go,
2:29our generation's so different than the
2:31last one. And there's never been
2:32anything like this. The es and the
2:34flows, the debits and the assets. And
2:37for every new technology and old there's
2:40a debit in an old culture and
2:43uh
2:44it seems like it always is right there
2:47somewhat
2:48equalized and balanced. And then there's
2:51a rhyme in that that sort of
2:56ecclesiastical.
2:58You know, there's a time for everything
3:00and for every you reap that will you
3:02sow. There's a time to kill. There's a
3:04time to live. There's a time to plant.
3:07There's a time to gather. There's a time
3:10to spread. It's very immersonian
3:14too,
3:16you know. And uh for every new
3:18technology we lose an old culture, you
3:20know, and these these things that we
3:22think are contradictory, heaven and
3:24hell, hate and love that we think are
3:27like this an imbalance for the truth of
3:29them, I think, is in that third eye
3:32where they overlap. And they all do
3:33overlap. They all sort of balance
3:35themselves out. And I don't know how
3:36much new under the sun we actually are
3:38doing. I think we call it different
3:40names. Think we change the labels. I
3:42think you get some things that are extra
3:44strength and some things that are unled.
3:48>> But I think they all pretty much balance
3:50pretty much balance out and there's
3:51rhyme and balance.
3:54>> What's your perspective on coincidence
3:56in life?
3:57>> Yeah.
3:58>> Serendipity.
3:58>> Yeah, man.
4:01Well, first time I have it is deja vu
4:03and you have it twice. I call it vu
4:05deja.
4:06Let's flip that thing around upside and
4:08backwards. Both sides of the coin. Um,
4:12look, in some ways it's the beginning of
4:14an argument
4:16for God, a divine plan, u fate, karma.
4:24In other ways, I don't mean that's fun
4:27to start doing that math to try and
4:30prove our way there, but
4:35it also feels like those are the swing
4:37backs. Oh, I've been here before. H I
4:40was here before.
4:42This
4:44life it doesn't have the the period at
4:47the end of it. I mean, who knows how
4:48many, you know, many lives, many
4:49masters. I don't know if that's true. It
4:51just sure makes it sure feels like it is
4:52sometimes. Um, that's a rhyme. That's a
4:55real nice a real time when life does
4:58rhyme and you look and you look for the
5:00math and you look for the science added
5:02up and it ain't there
5:05in that way. I do think science is the
5:08practical pursuit of God of which we'll
5:11never prove
5:14and that's the point. So there you have
5:15belief and faith for that which can't be
5:17proven. But the pursuit of that is also
5:20why I think God loves an atheist
5:21scientist. It's like yes, keep it up.
5:24>> Pursuit of that is why I think in my
5:27agnostic years
5:30where I said self-reliance, it's on me,
5:32man. Forget faith. I'm not relying on
5:34God. I ain't praying for nothing. It's
5:35on me. Responsibility, self-reliance. I
5:38believe that when I came back to my
5:41faith that I heard God applauding.
5:45Thank you for having your hands on the
5:47wheel.
5:48>> Thank you for taking the self-reliance
5:49and saying it is on you cuz you know
5:51what? I need that.
5:52>> Well, it's that wonderful idea that God
5:56doesn't want to do everything. Some of
5:57it's up to you.
5:59>> Amen. And though free will and faith
6:04and self-reliance and faith, they can
6:07seem contradictory, but I don't I don't
6:09I don't I think they're the I think they
6:12do rhyme.
6:13>> And you need both. And we Yes, there's a
6:16time for it. Inshalah, God willing,
6:18there's a time for Well, if it's
6:20supposed to be, it will be.
6:24>> Yeah. Usually right after it happens,
6:27>> you know.
6:28>> Yeah. Uh, I think George Jenko says,
6:30"Every man knows God when he's at his
6:32lowest, that there are reliable times
6:35when people turn toward faith."
6:37>> And how many people turn at the end of
6:40their life?
6:43And I wonder, you know, if there is a
6:44God, is that in the same way that, you
6:47know, Catholicism could say sin all
6:49week, but if you read if you meet it and
6:51you ask for forgiveness on Sunday,
6:52you're washed clean. Well, I see some
6:54people use that as a crutch and go right
6:56back to repeat offending. I've got a
6:57appointment here going to forgive me
6:58father for I know what I do. And I'm I'm
7:01curious like is that okay to just
7:04>> what's that mean?
7:05>> Meaning there's the forgive me father
7:07for I know not what I do.
7:08>> And and I'm writing about well forgive
7:10me father. There's times I know exactly
7:11what I'm doing and I do it anyway.
7:12>> Yeah. That was an error of valition not
7:14accident.
7:15>> A choice I made.
7:16>> Yeah.
7:16>> Now if I'm going to keep making that
7:18choice and be a repeat offender.
7:21I'm not ready to go. Yeah. But if I ask
7:23for forgiveness on Sunday I'm all clean.
7:25We can do it all over again. I'm not
7:26ready to I'm going. No, no, no. Hang on.
7:27The buck's got to stop here, man. If
7:29you're a repeat offender, God's going,
7:30"Yeah, you're not going to sit there and
7:32>> tom foolery with me here, bud."
7:34>> Um, and I don't want to do that with
7:36myself.
7:37Just as if I steal from you
7:42and I come to you and I go, "I'm sorry."
7:46That was I was I don't know where I was.
7:48I was at horrible choice. I'm sorry.
7:50Sorry. I'm asking for your forgiveness.
7:52If you forgive me
7:55cuz you take the my sincere want of
7:57reconciliation, the first thing on the
8:00docket between us should be me starting
8:02to do anything and everything I can not
8:04to have to come to you and say I'm sorry
8:05for the same damn thing again.
8:08If I do it
8:10once, twice, I'm a repeat offender and I
8:12stole from you three times, I think, and
8:15I'm hoping you'll still forgive me, but
8:16I wouldn't trust me,
8:18you know. Um,
8:22yeah. I think that's something that we
8:24forget sometimes is that once you do the
8:26forgiving, which let's go, let's the the
8:31spite move out of us so we don't get
8:33sick with that. The first thing
8:35responsibility is on the one who's
8:36asking for forgiveness to do everything
8:38they can not to have to come to ask for
8:39forgiveness or say I'm sorry again.
8:42>> And I think we forget that. That's
8:44that's on that's that's the debit.
8:45That's that's what's owed by
8:47>> Mhm.
8:48>> the offender first.
8:50You gave the grace to say I forgive you.
8:53So he called we that doesn't mean it's
8:55even money. That means I got work to do
8:57>> to make sure I'm not coming back to ask
8:59for it again.
8:59>> As opposed again as opposed to there is
9:01no amount of work that you can do that
9:03will ever get you back to even keel.
9:06It's someone saying
9:08>> right the ledger is still imbalanced but
9:10the door's open to the bank. the door
9:12and and and it's on me to go
9:15>> come and repay.
9:16>> Look, I wish rehabilitation like the
9:18jail system. I wish it was such that
9:20once someone's out,
9:22>> they're like you and me going to apply
9:24for a job. They're not.
9:26>> Scarlet Letter's on them. Well, that
9:27means our our system of rehabilitation
9:29isn't working
9:30>> cuz if it works, you should get out. I
9:32paid my penance. Now it's even money.
9:33>> Yeah. Yeah. How do you think about
9:35forgiving betrayal?
9:44I've
9:49think of when I've been betrayed.
9:53When it's clearly betrayal, I know it's
9:55betrayal and that person can look and
9:57go, "Yeah, that's what I did." Um, I've
10:00been asked for forgiveness for that
10:01before. And I've been also seen people
10:04go, "Yeah, that's what I did." And
10:07they're not asking for forgiveness.
10:08They're going, "Yeah,
10:11that's what I did."
10:14First response is, "Well, [ __ ] you." The
10:18second one is, "If that's on my mind, if
10:21that's keeping me up at night, that so
10:22or whatever that is,
10:25I got to I got I got to I got to flush
10:27that. I got to wonder why is that on my
10:29mind? I got to forgive that deed,
10:33that person for that deed." And again,
10:35not necessarily trust him, but do my
10:38best to forgive him. And that can take
10:39me a while. And I think that what takes
10:42me the most time to to to forgive the
10:45betrayal is
10:48me when and if I betray myself, forgiven
10:51myself.
10:54Because you know how it is, man. We
10:57forgive too quickly. We dust resilient.
11:00We hop up and dust oursel off and go,
11:02"Forgive you. Let's do it again." We do
11:04become repeat offenders because we
11:06didn't take the time to put oursel or
11:08feel the guilt of the wrongdoing and pay
11:10a little penance to look at and go, I
11:12don't want to feel this again. I don't
11:15want to do that action again to make
11:16myself feel this way. I don't it doesn't
11:19it doesn't feel like me. I don't want to
11:20I don't want that person to have that
11:23sadness or anger with me again or the
11:25world to have that sadness and anger
11:26from this. I don't want to feel that
11:28again. And that takes some pause
11:32to then go now I forgive myself. Let's
11:35carry on and trust and be ready to do
11:38the work to say we're not going to we're
11:40not going to just let that slide
11:41anymore.
11:42>> It's not there's going to be a way to
11:43hold myself to the highest end.
11:44>> Yeah.
11:46>> Because it didn't pay off because the
11:47repercussions sucked. There is a
11:52unique sort of circle of hell that is
11:56reserved for when you keep on making the
11:59same mistake over and over again that
12:02you've done it. You've had to pay the
12:04penance. Yeah.
12:05>> Say that you're sorry
12:08and then arrive straight back at the
12:10same place.
12:10>> Yeah. I think there's a hell in the
12:12mirror.
12:14Then I think it can become a living
12:16hell.
12:17Like I I got that poem in there,
12:19Daymares.
12:20>> I love that one.
12:21>> I do too. You know, night nightmares
12:23suck, but at least you wake up
12:26>> and they're over. It's the ones that
12:28stick with you when you wake up and go
12:29through your day that are right there.
12:30Those are the ones. That's the living
12:32hell.
12:32>> I think that's what you're what you're
12:34talking about.
12:36>> And you you repeat offend enough.
12:41Word gets out, the circles gets out. You
12:44people doubt you on your approach.
12:47You're like, "Yeah, but don't do this
12:48for this." I mean, all of a sudden,
12:51you're going places and you got to look
12:52over your shoulder. You got to see who's
12:55there that I didn't pay back, who do I
12:57owe? What bridge did I burn? What person
12:58did I betray to get where I am? That's a
13:00life. That's a living hell.
13:01>> Well, forget that. That
13:04in the modern world, you can move from
13:06city to city. uh at least you can in
13:09some regard leave your reputation
13:11behind. This was one of the issues of
13:12the west, right? This was how the snake
13:14oil salesmen were able to keep going cuz
13:16they would bounce from town to town,
13:17>> right?
13:18>> However, if you lose your reputation
13:20with yourself,
13:22if you no longer trust you,
13:24>> yep,
13:24>> I don't keep my own word. I know that
13:26I'm not a trustworthy person. I keep
13:28making promises to myself and to other
13:29people and I keep on breaking them. I
13:32keep doing something that hurts other
13:34people or the same person.
13:37They don't trust me anymore and oh, I
13:41don't trust me anymore. And you're 100%
13:44right. It all comes back to being a very
13:47personal act. And what some people would
13:51say, oh, that person's acting selfishly.
13:54No, they're actually being incredibly
13:55unselfish. I think cuz they're pinning
13:57themsel in a living hell and having to
13:59look in the mirror and going, I don't
14:00trust you. I don't respect you. Now, how
14:03long? And I know some people that can
14:04sleep quite well with that existence.
14:07>> I don't know how long they can do it.
14:09Sound bound to be some come up. It's the
14:10world's got to get small. They got to
14:12get dizzy somewhere. But,
14:16you know, where's that come from?
14:18Where's that come from for
14:21an agnostic, an atheist?
14:23Where's that come from? From someone in
14:25power that could easily damage somebody
14:27but chooses not to be cruel and they
14:29could so easily. Why not? Where's that?
14:33What What is What's that moral compass
14:35of some sort of fairness or integrity
14:37that keeps someone
14:40having that kind of character even
14:42though they may not believe in God or
14:45religion? That's why I'm saying in this,
14:47is it about belief? Yeah, the book's
14:48about belief. That's what I'm pedling
14:50here. I need more of it. I personally
14:52believe in God but the whole thing is
14:53not for if people that just believe in
14:55God. You believe believe in trying to
14:57pursue your better self transcendent
14:59self. If you believe in the future, you
15:00believe in your kids, you believe in the
15:01past, something don't know what that is,
15:04ask yourself what you die for. Start
15:06there. Everyone kind of believes in
15:08something. There's an argument that even
15:10Nile believe has nothing. Nothing's even
15:12something, you know. Um I don't know how
15:16you double down on nothing, but
15:17>> double nothing.
15:18>> Yeah. There's a an opposite end to this
15:21scale as well that continuing to sort of
15:24betray yourself. Uh sometimes you can do
15:27everything right and still not get the
15:30result that you wanted and that seems
15:33like a really tough pill to swallow for
15:35people. I think that's why people become
15:38uncomfortable with fully feeling their
15:40emotions.
15:41>> Yeah.
15:42>> So
15:44where do you go? What do you think when
15:46I really I I gave it my all there. I bed
15:49myself and I still got kicked in the
15:51nuts.
15:51>> Yeah.
15:52>> Not only did I feel like I deserve it, I
15:54feel like I earned it and I still didn't
15:56get it.
16:00>> Wait a minute. But you said that's the
16:01playbook and I followed the playbook.
16:03You said these were the rules and the
16:04regulations. I followed it and I was
16:07good at it. I still didn't get it.
16:13Well, suppose that's why we have
16:14entrepreneurs and criminals and
16:20I mean
16:23I have to I think I I naturally come
16:26back and look I I I hustle. I'm a
16:28hustler. I I I'm not puritanical. I'm
16:31not making not I'm not trying to preach
16:33a absolute straight and narrow way to go
16:35things. I bullshitted my way into things
16:37and faked my way into making things.
16:40pulled off stunts,
16:43but
16:48I I I I've never been able to really
16:50live with by hook or by crook, I'll get
16:53it how I can get it. I'll lie, cheat,
16:56and steal to get it. I got the prize and
17:00I'm still okay. I got it. My own shadow
17:03chases me down in the middle of the
17:04night. And those nightmares do become my
17:06own daymares. Now they're getting going
17:08for it and not getting it which we see a
17:10lot now right now. I think we're living
17:12in times where one of the indirect
17:14examples we'll see seeing from leaders
17:15some leadership is
17:18who's got the power? The winner.
17:21Okay. So what are the ethics? Well,
17:24whatever the winner does. Yeah, but the
17:26winner like pillaged and lied and
17:29cheated and told him get the prize. But
17:31he won.
17:33Wait a minute. you moved the goalpost
17:36while I had that. The ball is in the
17:37air, man. Is that okay? They won. And to
17:42I'm not buying to say I'm not ready to
17:44purchase that. Okay, that's just how it
17:45is. Um
17:48and
17:51I'm in no way foolish enough to think
17:53that everybody out there is on their
17:55best behavior. No, me neither.
17:58Uh, but I'm not ready for just hey,
18:01however you can pull it off and however
18:03many people you crumple along the way,
18:05there ain't no rules, regulations. Oh,
18:07and actually, if you do follow the
18:08rules, you're a sucker.
18:11[ __ ] you. What's the game for then?
18:14We're going to get dizzy on that. That's
18:16going to self-implode. That's going to
18:17be That's not the Wild Wild West. That's
18:19more than that. That's upside down and
18:21backwards and the foot's on the other
18:23shoe. That's not going to last. that
18:25that that that that that doesn't have
18:26any RO long-term ROI for us personally
18:29or collectively as humanity. I don't
18:32think so. We got to police that
18:35ourselves,
18:38>> you know, and I think that's my hunch is
18:39that we start with that. Everyone, no
18:41matter how much they're thinking
18:42globally or collectively, it all starts
18:44with something very very personal. And
18:46that that's where a revolution
18:49will could begin. and a revolution of
18:51evolution would begin that each person
18:53goes, "I've got to go one step further."
18:55As I talk about to salvage my character
18:57or one step further before I pull the
19:00parachute, quit.
19:04I think that would that's how
19:07you could really inch forward and evolve
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20:31wisdom. Let's say someone has been
20:33kicked in the nuts a good bit by life.
20:38How do you advise them to sort of become
20:39the hero of their own story again?
20:42Man,
20:42>> that's a tough one.
20:44I got a
20:47I'm going to pull in here called Heaven
20:48or Not and try and find it and uh see if
20:52this kind of half answers that that
20:53question
20:55and uh you know I don't have
21:00that answer. A lot of times these uh
21:03here it is heaven or not you know
21:05tomorrow is not today's measurement when
21:08the misery is bad enough right these
21:11people don't have to the suffering
21:14consideration
21:15is a it's a privilege man I'm trying to
21:17put food on the table right now and pay
21:19my rent tonight you want to talk to me
21:20about investing in my future
21:24and I say and that's part of what faith
21:25and religion are for to help those in
21:28misery hang on to a hope that will most
21:30likely not be served serve them in this
21:32life to sell them belief and faith that
21:35they will be served in the next. And
21:38what if there is nothing there, man?
21:40What if there's nothing to hope for?
21:42What if there's no next?
21:44I don't know.
21:47But either way, in misery here or
21:50without a heaven there, not having any
21:52hope or faith in anything is a certain
21:54way to remain where you are forever.
21:59But if you can find something that you
22:00can keep going,
22:02something that no matter how small to
22:04look forward to and continually have
22:05faith in and chase, well then your life
22:08here is going to be better now,
22:11heaven or not.
22:13That's a great question. You know, I sit
22:15here with a life where I have the the
22:18luxury to project, to ask myself and ask
22:22others, no, make a sacrifice today.
22:25Sacrifice a plastic ring today for a
22:27gold crown tomorrow. Sacrifice something
22:30today for more freedom tomorrow.
22:32Sacrifice something today for a possible
22:34healthier future for your kids. I
22:36understand that's a luxurious position.
22:39I'm not going to apologize that I'm in
22:40I'm in it. But I understand to someone
22:42in misery, they're going,
22:46"Good for you, man.
22:49I'm trying to feed the family tonight.
22:51I'm not thinking past that. I can't
22:52think past that."
22:54what he asked them to do. Yeah. My
22:58indirect thing I would say and
23:00understand is well if you don't have the
23:03hope or believe in something you're
23:04going to end up you're going to
23:05definitely going to remain where you
23:06are. And if you have hope and faith in
23:08something, I'm not saying it's 100% get
23:10out of jail. You're going to absolutely
23:11get out. But you got the best chance to
23:19>> peace is a gift of God and grace. To
23:21reach it mean we must rage. age. Yep.
23:25Yeah. I'm going to close my show that
23:28I'm doing when on this little bit with
23:29the tour with this with that
23:32cuz
23:34hey man kumbaya
23:37um I get it. I don't think that's how
23:41peace is coming. I think that's a great
23:43place to hope for, but to get there
23:50or closer to there
23:56is going to take punk rock
24:00a rage.
24:02It's going to take getting wild.
24:05It's not going to be necessarily
24:08logical. It's not going to be tame. It's
24:11not going to be whispered. I don't think
24:14it's going to take nothing. No emotion
24:17gets more [ __ ] done than rage for for
24:19good or for bad. Seems like rage really
24:21moves the needle. You know what I mean?
24:24>> And I think that that emotion and that
24:27approach shouldn't be thrown out when
24:29you're talking about a pursuit of peace
24:31or contentment. I mean, it it takes
24:34sweat equity. It it would take blood
24:36being drawn.
24:38I don't believe that we are as evolved
24:41enough species
24:43to as to just behave as we
24:46intellectually can agree we should be.
24:50I don't see it happening.
24:53We can all agree with it
24:55in an open forum. Enough of us go back
24:58on our own and what we're doing.
25:01You know,
25:04it's a good idea,
25:06but boy, when it's we're cornered and
25:08what we got being possibly trespassed on
25:14be very primal. Some lines need to be
25:17drawn. I I believe so. Wonder whether we
25:20uh overpraise balance
25:23>> when when greatness might demand
25:26imbalance.
25:29>> That's an interesting one. That's a fun
25:30one, man. Do we over praise balance?
25:37Yeah, I think my first reaction would be
25:38we do overpraise balance a bit. It's a
25:40great pursuit.
25:43I think a better pursuit is try and find
25:45the rhyme in the inbalance.
25:47>> Well, let me give you what I think is
25:49the justification for why balance gets
25:52overpraised.
25:54Most of the people who have a platform
25:57which is sufficiently big with enough
26:00credibility for others to listen on mass
26:04>> have been through the rage and now burst
26:07out the top to reach exit velocity.
26:10>> Okay.
26:10>> And what that means is
26:13they're in a very different position now
26:15to what they were at the beginning.
26:16Yeah.
26:16>> And the summary is uh model the rise not
26:20the result.
26:21>> I like that. model the rise, not the
26:23result. Because the result is where
26:25they're at now. Do not ask Warren
26:27Buffett about how long he spends reading
26:30the newspaper and pouring over old
26:32books. That guy was a hustler. He was a
26:34hustler when he was young. What did you
26:37do when you were at the stage that I am
26:38at? Not what do you do now? Because I
26:41want to get to where you are. That means
26:42I don't do what you do now. I do what
26:44you did to get there.
26:45>> Yay.
26:46>> Model the rise, not the result.
26:48>> Love that. The approach.
26:50>> Okay. I'm all over. I'm all for that and
26:52the way especially the way you just
26:54explained it and and let's just talk
26:56about overall the and I haven't thought
26:58of it when thinking about aspirations
27:00with people and things but the result
27:04which we know there isn't really one and
27:06we cannot imitate someone else's exact
27:09result. We're going to have our own
27:10thing way to get there. Um
27:15the the approach is all I think that's
27:18that's that's the best our life can get
27:20is one constant approach or and with
27:23many different approaches but knowing we
27:25never there is no result.
27:28>> That's when I always say the metaphor
27:29life's a verb. Um but that's that's
27:32really fun to go no no no no don't study
27:34the result. What was the person doing
27:36when they got there? And everybody who's
27:39achieved something great was some sort
27:41of outlaw.
27:42>> Yep.
27:43>> Some sort of hustler. Out of balance,
27:46out of whack, dark times. Woo.
27:48>> Astream.
27:49>> Still wakes up in the middle of the
27:50night and glad there went a mouthguard
27:52cuz they'd have chipped all their teeth
27:53through that [ __ ] nightmare they were
27:54having about those things they did back
27:56then.
27:59>> I'm one of those. Well, another question
28:01would be, what virtue is there in
28:04balance if there was no such thing as
28:06imbalance to fight against?
28:07>> True.
28:07>> Yeah.
28:08>> Oh, I just reached equinimity,
28:10>> right?
28:10>> You know, I walked out onto this tight
28:12rope. Yeah. Exactly. And I I don't know.
28:14It just I didn't wobble once. Well, now
28:17we're going into I have that I got that
28:19thing there. I said, what what's better?
28:21Take eight. Take eight eight big risk in
28:23life. Sin once, miss the mark once, but
28:26get seven. Achieve seven. Seven out of
28:28eight. or take a hundred risk and
28:30achieve eight of them.
28:33My hunch is that
28:35there's a God. He's saying go for the
28:37hundred and get eight
28:38>> rather than eight and get seven.
28:40>> Mhm.
28:40>> If you're not take if you're not taking
28:42enough risk
28:43>> to sin or miss the mark, which is what
28:46sin means to fail,
28:49then
28:49>> what are you doing, man? Don't come back
28:50with even money. go back with a safe bet
28:53which that can become a sort of
28:57recessive
28:59peace and namaste. No, it's a it's a
29:01it's almost a it's I don't think it's
29:03what the mystics meant when they were
29:04like be disattached.
29:06>> Mhm.
29:07>> I mean go embrace but
29:11for highs and lows and pains and
29:13pleasures understand that those outward
29:15things are not the things to be attached
29:18to for your own identity. It's got to be
29:20inward first. Enjoy those, partake, but
29:23don't become attached to those for your
29:25measure.
29:26>> There's a an idea from Isaiah Berlin
29:28called the inner citadel. He says, uh,
29:30when the world denies us that which we
29:32want, we retreat into ourselves in a
29:35kind of spiritual depth into a sort of
29:36inner citadel. Basically, if you can't
29:38get what you want, you teach yourself to
29:41want what you can get.
29:42>> Okay? Uh so for instance um you damage
29:46your leg in a battle and you can try to
29:50fix the leg in which case you're fine or
29:53if you fail you chop your leg off and
29:55announce that the desire for legs is
29:57misguided and must be subdued.
29:59>> Right? This is a retreat in spiritual
30:01death. This is uh aestheticism on
30:03steroids.
30:04>> Um I by not trying to play the game
30:07there is no risk of failure. Right.
30:09>> And I think that the not making any
30:12bets. Um I I I see this a lot. I've been
30:15very obsessed with emotions. Since we
30:16last spoke a year ago, I've been very
30:18obsessed with emotions, with feeling
30:19feelings or trying to. And
30:23I get the sense that feelings are one of
30:25these strange bets. Emotions, investing
30:27ourselves, not holding a bit back, not
30:29putting one foot out, like putting it on
30:31the line, opening up.
30:32>> Yeah.
30:33>> Exposing ourselves. And
30:37that feels like uh a retreat in kind,
30:40but one that's plausibly deniable. When
30:42we just have one foot out, I didn't
30:43fully commit myself to this this
30:45project, this relationship, this
30:46friendship, this this uh self
30:48transformation. I kept one foot back.
30:50Well, you know, I might I might not be
30:51able to do that right now because I got
30:53this this challenge or this this
30:54restriction from before, this
30:56relationship. Like, I'm going to hold a
30:57bit back. I'm going to keep a bit for
30:58me.
30:59>> This is my bit.
31:01>> And it means that if failure comes
31:02along, it doesn't hurt as much. But it
31:04also means that success is less likely.
31:07And if success comes along, you know
31:09that you didn't really earn it. You
31:10didn't really win it because you played
31:12the game. And that's fine in some areas
31:16of pursuit. And at some stages of life,
31:18>> right?
31:18>> Early in life,
31:20>> I don't think you can be left as
31:21culpable. You're 12 years old, you don't
31:22know what you're doing.
31:24>> In business, the outcome really is what
31:27matters. That is what you're optimizing
31:29for. Some people business is a a a
31:32personal transformation vehicle
31:34masquerading as a wealth-making pursuit.
31:36But for the most part, you're there to
31:38do the business.
31:38>> Yeah.
31:39>> But in relationships, in friendships, in
31:41the way that you show up for yourself,
31:42in your personal transformation, in your
31:43relationship to whatever you believe in,
31:46>> I don't think that we should be having
31:47our inner citadel really play any
31:51>> hard to pull off. Um, but
31:55I it's believe it's similar to what I
31:59write about when I talk about a owner's
32:01mentality versus a renters's mentality.
32:06So many people have the renters's
32:08mentality. Relationships, businesses,
32:10transactional, you flip it, get it, flip
32:12it.
32:15And they never give the relationship the
32:16chance to possibly be a friendship, to
32:20possibly be a long-term relationship, to
32:21possibly be a great mate, great partner.
32:23They never give the real estate, the
32:26house a chance to actually maybe become
32:27a home.
32:30And that's
32:34I think it's the words better that to go
32:37in with an owner's mentality.
32:40Meaning, have you ever hired someone
32:43that you were like
32:45probably just need you for a few months.
32:47You have?
32:48>> Okay. You have. See, I I have only hired
32:52or
32:54people that I was like I'm hoping this
32:57is going to be a lifer.
32:58>> Mhm.
32:58>> I'm hoping you're going to provide what
33:00I need and I'm going to get you're going
33:02to get for me what you need that this
33:03could work out forever.
33:06Barely any of them do. Got a couple
33:08>> a few.
33:10>> But that's how you entered the
33:12relationship. But a one I wouldn't have
33:14known or I wouldn't have got out of them
33:16and they wouldn't have got out of me and
33:17if as much if we wouldn't have gone into
33:19it with an owner's mentality.
33:20>> People can tell this is transactional or
33:23transient.
33:25>> Let me ask you this though. Isn't all
33:26right basically every I know it's
33:29transactional transformational those
33:30seem to be the two transaction
33:33every relationship is transactional
33:36>> but not only transactional some
33:38transactional relationships could become
33:39transformational but I mean we're all
33:42using each other in a way that I can get
33:43this from you give this to me my wife
33:45gives this to me I give this to her it's
33:47a transformational relationship but
33:48we're always transacting so I don't have
33:50the problem with the transaction I have
33:52the pro I I I have I have the the whole
33:55back when It's like, "Oh, it's merely
33:57for transaction.
33:58>> Oh, it's merely for use." And
34:01how many people don't even try to hide
34:03that?
34:05They're just straight up going like,
34:06"That's that's that's all it's for. What
34:08are you talking about?"
34:08>> Yeah.
34:09>> I mean, I see it in in in in uh Palo
34:12Alto, man. They raise all kinds of the
34:15startups are everywhere and everyone
34:17invests. You flip and it falls down and
34:19no and they don't even blink. Yeah. and
34:20you work for somebody and you become
34:22their CEO and they fire you and d and
34:25hammer you and see it in politics and
34:26they hammer your name and drag you
34:28through the mud and like dude that's
34:29just that's how it is. No problem. Hey
34:31Bob, how you doing? Like that's the guy.
34:33No, that's fine. It's just business.
34:35It's just politics. I'm like hang on a
34:37minute. So that was that transactional
34:39that that's water off the duck's back
34:41for you? And for so many it is. I'm
34:43amazed at how people do it. They're
34:45built different in the same way as
34:46doctors and nurses and firefighters,
34:49>> people that need to deal with trauma,
34:51>> right?
34:52>> Uh you are dealing with interpersonal
34:54trauma. You are you are a a soldier on
34:57the field of interpersonal battle if
34:59you're in politics or if you're in
35:01business.
35:02>> Yeah. You also don't necessarily do what
35:06you believe.
35:08>> You do what's expedient or successful or
35:10efficacious.
35:11>> You efficacious. What's that mean?
35:13>> Uh effective. Okay. Yeah. Um,
35:17you betray
35:20a lot of people, a lot of ideals,
35:22including yourself.
35:30That doesn't sound like very much fun to
35:32me. Not that betrayal part.
35:35I wonder if it's inherent or if that's
35:38me reading it from the outside and
35:39saying, "No, that could be different."
35:43I wonder how much of that is people
35:45optimizing for the wrong outcome and
35:48only getting to see a very narrow
35:50aperture of other people's outcomes,
35:54too. Or this person seemed to step on
35:56some toes and and break a couple of arms
36:01on their way up.
36:04They were okay. Everyone seems to be all
36:05right with this,
36:06>> right? You go, you don't know what the
36:10texture of that person's mind's like
36:11when they go to bed at night. They might
36:13not have spoken to their father in 5
36:14years,
36:15>> right?
36:16>> They might never feel peace.
36:18>> Yeah.
36:18>> They might permanently be anxious. They
36:19might hate themselves. Might not be able
36:21to get an erection,
36:22>> right?
36:24>> You want that. You really want that. But
36:26you want this. You want the outside
36:29success.
36:31The price that people pay to be somebody
36:33that you admire is one of the most
36:35fascinating questions I think.
36:40Yeah.
36:43Yeah.
36:45Trying to think. I'm going through my
36:47head right now. Where have I sacrificed
36:49my own character
36:52to get ahead so then to be perceived
36:55>> as? And I know I've done it many times.
37:01part of that
37:03hustling part I said I've done, you
37:05know, and I
37:05>> That's the rise, you know. Yeah. And
37:08being a marketeteer, too, you know,
37:11gotten away with stuff, played games and
37:13da da da da da. Kiss the fire and walk
37:15away whistling. A little uh Icorus
37:18light.
37:19>> Yeah.
37:21>> Did we talk about Icarus last time?
37:23>> No.
37:24>> No. I think I think we're more in need
37:26of Icarus in reverse.
37:28Meaning I I think, you know, oh, don't
37:30get too close to the sun. It's getting
37:31hot. It's gonna melt that wax. I think
37:33most of us are turning back and it's 45
37:35degrees Fahrenheit without bees on. I
37:37was like, dude, what where do you go?
37:38Where do we get the arrogance to think
37:40that it's actually getting hot?
37:43>> We're not even close, man.
37:45>> Not even close to getting hot. I mean,
37:48that close to the sun is way up there.
37:50Arrogant pricks you are thinking that
37:52you're that close. You didn't make it
37:54near as far as you thought you did
37:56>> or as you could go.
37:58I wish more people I'm going to flip the
38:01word were more involved with themselves.
38:03>> Embrace your
38:05>> instead of self-involved. That has a bad
38:07term. I wish people were more involved
38:09with themselves. Yeah.
38:10>> I think that's where we're more
38:11deficient.
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38:19yourself. Do more of what you can to be
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39:33wisdom right in the face. Yeah. You
39:35thought you could hide back there,
39:36didn't you? No, no, no. I see you, man.
39:40You know the story of Seisphus? I don't
39:42>> man that was cursed to roll the boulder
39:44up a hill for the rest of time by the
39:46gods.
39:47>> Uh
39:49this man gets cursed, I think he was a
39:52demigod, gets cursed to roll a boulder
39:54up a hill. It's heavy, heavy boulder. He
39:56rolls it uphill and just as he gets to
39:59the very top,
40:01he stumbles and it falls down and
40:02crushes him and he needs to walk back to
40:04the bottom,
40:05>> turn around, pick it back up. And
40:06Albeckamu's famous line is we must
40:08imagine Cisphus happy that this
40:12pointless pursuit uh that he finds joy
40:15in the process of doing it.
40:17>> Um I wonder if we can imagine Icarus
40:19happy.
40:21I wonder if we can imagine the guy that
40:23is flying toward the sun as well.
40:28He had a view that nobody else got from
40:30up there and he only did it once and the
40:33wings melted. But
40:35>> right,
40:35>> what if you'd run that experiment a few
40:37a few times and what if you had a little
40:38parachute that could have sort of
40:40brought him down?
40:40>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
40:42>> You might have realized that that was
40:43just a one-off and actually I think you
40:45can get closer.
40:46>> Right. Right.
40:47>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We must imagine Icarus
40:49happy, I think, is a cool a cool idea.
40:51>> Yeah. And you know, he regulated his
40:53breathing as it got so hot and sweaty
40:55and
40:56>> he learned
40:57>> somebody swung by and he had a backpack
40:59with water on him the next time.
41:01>> Yeah. He used the stronger glue, more
41:03feathers.
41:04>> Yeah. Yeah. He stitched it. You know
41:06what I mean?
41:08>> Came down a little more tan than the
41:09time before.
41:11>> I've always relied on logic to make
41:13sense of myself and the world. I've been
41:15finding that tougher to do lately. Seems
41:17to me the facts have become unreliably
41:20overrated.
41:22How so?
41:28What is a fact? Where do we go for the
41:31facts?
41:35What's the truth? What's where to go for
41:37that? That's probably a bigger question
41:39than what's a fact. I think a fact I
41:41think the facts are an underdog right
41:42now. And I'm not sure where to go to
41:45find them.
41:48The math doesn't seem to be adding up.
41:50I'm not looking around so much. And part
41:53of the reason I wrote this for my own
41:55spiritual therapy, I was going I found
41:57myself getting cynical
42:00looking down my nose.
42:05not giving people the benefit of the
42:06doubt, stereotyping, objectifying full
42:09group people in groups.
42:14And then the scary part was I started to
42:18entertain the idea of, yeah,
42:23it may just be how it is now.
42:27And that scared me.
42:30And then I got angry at that. And I'm
42:32still in the midst of some anger with
42:33that
42:36which is a bit of that rage thing which
42:37make me act upon it and go [ __ ] Mm-
42:41not conceding and I don't think anyone
42:43really wants to concede that that's just
42:44the way it is. And if it is the way it
42:46is
42:49and the reality is not enough to get off
42:51to
42:53let's go to the dream. Let's flip that
42:55script. I always have gone from
42:58non-fiction to say let's make that the
43:00dream. Just keep living. Art emulates
43:03life. And that's in the recent years has
43:06started to pay me back less. How much is
43:08that to do with my own eyes?
43:11Probably quite a bit. But whatever it
43:14is, still seeing it and uh
43:18I want to fight against it. So I flipped
43:20it and said, "Let's go to dreams. Let's
43:22go to pray poems, prayers. These are
43:24pursuits of an ideal beauty. These are
43:26in between the lines. This is in between
43:28the math. This is not academic. This is
43:30not intellectual. These are ideals that
43:32we pursue. The beginner's mind that we
43:34have as a child before we know worse.
43:36And I don't want to be ignorant. I don't
43:37want to be foolishly optimistic. Let's
43:39look to those and believe that we can
43:40still make those real.
43:44Let that bring rhyme to the reason
43:47instead of looking to the reason to find
43:50the rhyme. Mhm. That's
43:53it. The rhyme communicating with the
43:57reason
43:59because
44:01life around us is all like reason
44:03reason. Neck up, man.
44:05>> So, I want to pull some weeds here on
44:07this pathway. Open up that this one lane
44:11dirt top road with potholes and it's a
44:13oneway going the opposite way which way
44:14I want it to go. It's going away from
44:16the heart. And to clean that up a little
44:17bit and go, let's get you two
44:18communicating a little bit. Uhhuh.
44:19>> You're not going to win every time, bud.
44:20Cuz we got we we we like our reason. We
44:22want to mind oursel. But we make a
44:25decision, we have any kind of certainty
44:27or we make a judgment. Let's let's have
44:30this let's have our heart be a
44:31two-factor authenticator before we make
44:33that decision.
44:35>> Um
44:37and uh that goes for the compassionate
44:40side. That also goes for
44:43the consequences and and of saying the
44:46buck stops here with ourselves and
44:48others. How do you advise perennial
44:50overthinkers to get below the neck a
44:53little bit?
44:53>> Perennial overthinkers get below the
44:56neck.
45:01>> Record themselves
45:03all overinking. Have a listen back. I do
45:07it. I overthink a lot. And when I've
45:10heard myself back, I'm like going,
45:13"Dude,
45:14you're kind of
45:18seeing so much significance
45:20that none of that shit's significant."
45:24Every detailed frame have You're giving
45:26it a proper name.
45:30Oh, if everything's significant, there's
45:32no significance at all, man. Some shit's
45:34just like I don't have the capacity to
45:36deal with it. I don't really care. It's
45:38just how it is. Don't some of the
45:40inevitables and sometimes you got to let
45:42those ride. I'm not trying. That's just
45:44how it is. I'm going to deal with that
45:46now. I'm going to deal with what I can
45:47deal with. I I get the middle agitations
45:49on that. And I listen to myself back and
45:52I'm like going, "Whoa, you need to get
45:54some sleep.
45:58You need to have a drink.
46:00>> You need to relax. You need to, you
46:02know, I got this uh uh funny appointment
46:04here. It's called barbituate logic.
46:08Where's barbituate logic? Can I find
46:10this for a second?
46:13Uh,
46:15there it is. I need to calm my brain to
46:18have half the thoughts per hour.
46:2150% of the neural fragments and
46:24therefore twice the power and one doubly
46:28meaningful story with half the words.
46:31>> You know, sometimes it the snaps it's
46:33just it's too much. It's all treble. And
46:35if everything is significant,
46:38you're like, you miss the main thing. I
46:40I'm missing so focused on the drop. I
46:44didn't realize it was raining. It's the
46:45force for the tree thing. So that's the
46:49overthinking. When I've recorded myself,
46:52I can hear that there is some
46:56lanyop
46:57etc. in my
47:00talk and some of it is babble. Some of
47:02it may be succinctly fine-tuned and
47:05wonderful. Then I have to go, is that
47:06useful to my understanding? Is it useful
47:09to the story I can tell? Is it useful to
47:11my application in life? And a lot of
47:13times I'm like, no, it's clever. It's
47:15like smart [ __ ] I don't want to spend
47:17too much time in that head because that
47:18sounds like, you know, you broke a sweat
47:23in places you weren't really getting
47:25exercise mentally, spiritually, or
47:27physically. Um, so that could sometimes
47:32listening listening back has helped me
47:34baseline some things and kind slow the
47:36brain down. Man,
47:38you're missing me give more meaning. And
47:41you hear the smartest people, man. I
47:42love hearing the wisest people. Their
47:44stuff's short, bro. It's quick and you
47:46go, "Oh." And you're like waiting for
47:48more and you're looking around and
47:49they're like looking at you like that's
47:50it. And you're like, "Perfect." my dad
47:54telling me when I wanted to go to film
47:55school instead of law school and I
47:56thought he was going to go you want to
47:57what him taking that pause and says is
48:00that what you want to do and I said yes
48:02him going
48:04well don't half ass it
48:07was waiting for so much more that was it
48:08and there's no that was it nothing
48:10better he could have told me yeah
48:11>> at that time
48:18>> yeah it's also I think remembering when
48:22we overthink things or overexlain
48:25things. You're stealing a lot of times
48:28in in moments that you think maybe
48:29you're teaching even ourselves,
48:31especially others. You're stealing the
48:34the dignity of leaving the truth in the
48:38askers's kitchen,
48:40like saying letting someone come up with
48:43the have a conversation, but you're
48:45letting them come up with
48:47>> the answer. It's like what the best
48:49directors do in films. They don't tell
48:50you what to do. They talk about and get
48:53you to go, "Oh, oh yeah." So, and you go
48:56it is as you say,
48:58>> then we got ownership and that's our
49:01idea whether we were manipulated into it
49:04or not. We're got going thank you.
49:07>> It's mine. Now we got fire. Now we got
49:10purpose. Now that you get the great
49:13performance in front of the camera and I
49:15think in in life more too when person
49:18feels like they came up with the idea. I
49:20always tell directors, man, I'm easy to
49:21direct. Just don't tell me what to do.
49:23And if you can trick me into thinking,
49:25"All right, all this shit's my idea."
49:30>> Yeah. You know,
49:31>> yeah, there's a
49:34wonderful insight about why we like
49:35people that's similar to that. So, uh,
49:40inverse charisma. Uh, a lot of the time
49:42we think that we want to be more
49:44charismatic because that would make us
49:45more likable. We want our stories to be
49:48engaging and our aura to be electrifying
49:50and our presence to be magnetic and for
49:52us to walk into a room and for everybody
49:54to sort of look up
49:55>> be compelled.
49:57>> And then I looked at the friends that I
50:00liked spending time around the most.
50:03And they're interesting, but that wasn't
50:07really the common denominator.
50:10Some people are interesting
50:13and some people make you feel
50:15interesting.
50:16>> And there's this wonderful story about
50:18Jenny Jerome, Winston Churchill's
50:19mother, and she gets to meet uh Benjamin
50:22Israeli and William Gladstone on
50:25consecutive nights for dinner. And she
50:27leaves the first dinner, says uh I left
50:31that feeling like he was the cleverest
50:34man in all of England.
50:37She goes to the second one. She says, "I
50:39left that dinner feeling like I was the
50:41cleverest woman."
50:43And this wonderful idea that some people
50:46are interesting, some people make us
50:47feel interesting.
50:49>> And and kind of the same with with this
50:52idea here that uh
50:56>> allowing
50:58allowing the conclusion to be arrived
51:01at.
51:02>> Yeah.
51:03>> Uh is often the best solution.
51:07>> Yeah. I I have to continue to watch it.
51:09I love being in the know.
51:12>> I I love giving
51:14advice. I love sermonizing. My kids will
51:17be like, "Can you give something a TED
51:18talk?" Dad, like, "Yeah, shut
51:21>> sit down." No, no, no, no. I've got
51:22slides.
51:23>> Listen,
51:25I let them find it. And you know, I
51:28heard a cool trick and it was just so
51:30simple.
51:31But uh one in
51:34talking and
51:37sharing something that you've learned
51:39that you think may be applicable to
51:40other people. The use of I, you or we to
51:44use the we
51:45>> like you is dangerous because people be
51:47you're talking at me. You're telling me
51:48what to do. I is safe because
51:51>> well that's you're that's your
51:52experience. Maybe you invite maybe
51:54people see themselves or not. to say we
51:57it's a it's it's closer to platitudinal
52:00because you're going like are you
52:01speaking for all of us? But it does
52:03welcome everybody in. And it says that
52:06and I always like to say this when I'm
52:08talking about things with people. I'm
52:09like when I when I say we, I'm I'm
52:11including me. All right. Because I'm not
52:14>> we includes me.
52:15>> Yeah. We includes me. I'm not I'm
52:16working on this [ __ ] too, man. you know,
52:19um, and trying to and like I have to be
52:21reminded don't don't be afraid to ask
52:22the question that I'm asking for myself
52:24that can open up someone else to go,
52:26well, I got an answer to that.
52:29What do you got?
52:30>> Did with the similar with the kids last
52:33night. Instead of saying
52:36VA Levi Livingston, how are you doing?
52:40It's a tough answer, tough question to
52:42answer. I said, and my friend gave me
52:45this note, said, "Hey, what's what's the
52:48life of a teenager like these days?"
52:52They took off and talked and shared all
52:55kinds of stuff
52:56>> cuz I wasn't putting them on the spot or
52:58they didn't take it as put on I found
52:59out so much more about how they're
53:01feeling by asking
53:02>> It's broad question.
53:03>> Broad question.
53:04>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
53:05>> You know,
53:06>> Yeah. It's funny how we need license for
53:08that.
53:08>> Yeah.
53:09>> In a strange way.
53:10>> Yeah.
53:11to be able to talk about is a lot of
53:13times how we best talk about ourselves.
53:16>> Yeah.
53:16>> Yeah.
53:16>> But couched with enough distance.
53:19>> Yeah.
53:20>> Yeah.
53:20>> I have noticed I have seen it. It's the
53:22I'm asking for a friend. Uh
53:25justification.
53:27>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
53:30>> What do you think about the role of
53:31courage in life? You know, we've talked
53:34so far about
53:37the balance of doing it and not doing
53:40it.
53:40>> We've talked about dreaming big and
53:43maybe dreaming even further. And then
53:45we've also had this idea of uh a little
53:48bit of relinquishing of control.
53:50>> Yeah.
53:50>> As well as we got to apply the effort,
53:52we got to have the vision, but we've
53:53also got to know when when we're going
53:54to let let go a little bit.
53:56>> Yeah. It seems to me like courage,
53:59the ability to feel our convictions and
54:03>> commit to them is a little bit of a
54:05common thread that sort of runs through
54:07those.
54:07>> Yeah.
54:10>> So
54:12I grew up only knowing sort of the
54:14courage of the persistent. Be resilient,
54:17endure, get up, dust yourself off, go.
54:20The problem with that, the Achilles heel
54:22with that is if you get up and you have
54:24the courage to keep on going every time
54:27and get up and dust yourself off, you
54:30make the same mistakes each time around
54:32cuz you never backed up.
54:35To have what I've now learned and still
54:36learning is the courage to go, "No, I'm
54:39going to let some people pass me in the
54:40race right now cuz I'm going to look at
54:41why I keep stepping in that damn same
54:42pothole and twisting my ankle. The same
54:44spot.
54:46why I keep failing when I try to get
54:49that next spot in this relationship or
54:52failing in this place to get this
54:54product of my craft to the next.
54:56>> Would that be uh the relinquishing of
54:58the romcom era in in a a small part for
55:00you?
55:01>> Small part. Yeah. Uh yeah, that that was
55:05one. It also has to do with when I got
55:06married. my,
55:09you know, son comes to me at four years
55:10old and says, "Why isn't Mama McConnah?"
55:16I'm going through my head. You're
55:17[ __ ] four, dude.
55:19I sat there. I was like, "God,
55:20>> did your mom put you with this?"
55:21>> It's a great question, but I mean, we're
55:23not because we're not married. When you
55:25get married, you switch your name. Okay.
55:26And then he just got listened and all of
55:27a sudden he goes,
55:29>> "Are you scared?"
55:32I'm [ __ ] four years old, dude. And I
55:34was like, "Yeah,
55:38I guess I am." I remember going to a
55:41pastor and talking to a lot of different
55:44elder men who had had long-term
55:45relationships, were married for decades
55:47and stuff, and and and my pastor goes,
55:49"Let me just ask you this, Mr. Risk
55:52Taker. What's the bigger risk?
55:54Carrying on like you're going, it's
55:57going well." or taking the deeper dive
56:01into the sacrament covenant of marriage
56:03which should be a covenant between you
56:05and her and God. The trilogy will go
56:06forward. That will be a whole new vent
56:08adventure in itself. Are you what?
56:09What's a bigger risk? I was like, "Oh,
56:10the getting married's a bigger risk." He
56:11was like,
56:13he didn't say another word.
56:16That was part of why I made the
56:18affirmative action and was what I was
56:20looking for as a way to play offense
56:21with that choice. I didn't want to do it
56:22because that's what you're supposed to
56:24do. It's time. We've been dating for
56:25this long. We got engaged. I didn't want
56:27to do it by the book. and I was looking
56:28for the authent
56:45being able to do the work I was doing
56:47and offer the roles I was getting the
56:48romcoms
56:50was eating at me
56:52because I felt like I could life is good
56:55man I make good Honey,
56:57feel like I can roll out of bed and do
56:59one of these tomorrow morning. Well,
57:00that's cool,
57:04man. I'm kind of number one. I'm I'm I'm
57:05the I'm the go-to guy for this.
57:08But I wasn't I was countered by I had
57:12met Camila, fallen in love, she's now
57:14pregnant with her first child. So that
57:17my life was extremely vital and I was
57:20alive, cried harder, laughed louder,
57:23felt more joy, all those things. about
57:24my work was like all right and I was
57:26like well I wish my work could be as
57:29challenging or as vital as my life and I
57:31remember looking in the mirror going
57:32well be glad right now appreciate that
57:34it's not the other way around but can I
57:37have my work challenge my lifestyle in
57:39this vitality
57:41yeah if I do some dramas I want to do
57:43well those aren't coming all right if I
57:44can't do what I want to do quit do what
57:45I was doing now that was
57:49I think yeah it was definitely
57:52courageous I did I honestly
57:55think I'd written myself a one-way
57:56ticket out of Hollywood.
57:59People close to me. Basically, almost
58:02everybody besides my wife was like,
58:05"What is your major malfunction, little
58:07brother? You got it made. Why Why are
58:12you throwing a jack knife in this?
58:14You're tripping yourself running
58:15downhill, man. You You You did it.
58:20And I had my wife and myself to remind
58:25myself of that 4:00 a.m. clarity that I
58:28had in tears when I was like, "No,
58:33I'm I'm I'm I'm rolling the dice. I'm
58:35sticking with it."
58:37>> And
58:39yeah, man. I did think I wrote myself a
58:41ticket out of Hollywood. I did look at
58:43other vocations, become a teacher,
58:46a wildlife guide. I serious seriously
58:49look at those things.
58:51Um
58:52but over time and it was about 20 months
58:55it was gone long enough had found
58:56anonymity enough was not in your living
58:57room in a theater in a romcom. You
58:59didn't see me on a beat shirtless
59:01where is he
59:03and then I think I told you the story
59:05turning down the $14.5 million offer
59:07made people go oh [ __ ] what's he up to?
59:10They don't just you don't just step out
59:12of Hollywood and then unless you get you
59:14turn that down because you got a plan.
59:15you got somewhere you want to go and I
59:17think that made me more
59:19attractive as a new novel idea. But that
59:22was yeah that wrist took a I think it's
59:24fair to say that took a fair amount of
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1:00:31For a lot of people, their work feels
1:00:34more vital than their life.
1:00:36>> Yeah.
1:00:38>> Is that a a shiny object mirage that
1:00:42they need to rid themselves of?
1:00:47If you can and you're willing to. Yeah.
1:00:50Look, that's part of why I started
1:00:53writing.
1:00:54The script flipped on me 5 years ago.
1:00:59I was like I was feeling like my work
1:01:01was more vital than my life. I felt like
1:01:04I was going through the motions more in
1:01:05my life, but I was really getting major
1:01:08life experiences and through my work.
1:01:12And I had the same question. I was like,
1:01:13well,
1:01:15let's see where I can challenge myself
1:01:17more in the documentary, the one life
1:01:19I'm living rather than the characters
1:01:20I'm going to play that somebody else
1:01:22wrote, someone else directing, someone
1:01:24else is lensing through their camera and
1:01:25editing. What are we doing on
1:01:28this one take that we've had since the
1:01:31day we were born and will be cut the day
1:01:32we die. And so that was a challenge to
1:01:34myself which
1:01:38led to the the writing which was a more
1:01:40direct experience kind of put a word
1:01:42down without it's my script and without
1:01:44my performance on it without music
1:01:46without pictures and uh
1:01:50so that was an inward journey that I'm
1:01:53that I'm still on and now I think I'm
1:01:55trying to want to do both of them. I
1:01:57just did a couple movies. Jeez, I was
1:01:59reminded how much I love it. M
1:02:00>> it felt like freaking vacation going to
1:02:03act again to have a singular obsession
1:02:05like that was like it was a it was a
1:02:07vacation
1:02:08>> for me and I did good work I don't mean
1:02:11like it was laying back with the pina
1:02:12colada I would getting what I wanted
1:02:15done each day and collaborating with
1:02:17somebody that I like to collaborate with
1:02:18and building this thing and building a
1:02:20character within the movie and being
1:02:21done I was like that was so much fun
1:02:23that felt like a vacation much more so
1:02:25than the two months I just spent in
1:02:26Europe it felt like more of a vacation
1:02:28than that
1:02:30which has led me to question myself.
1:02:32Maybe I need to learn how to vacation
1:02:34differently.
1:02:35>> That's also a skill. Yeah, I hear uh
1:02:37True Detective season two maybe coming
1:02:40back.
1:02:41>> That would be season probably five. I've
1:02:43>> season two with you.
1:02:44>> Oh, well Nick's got an idea. Pitch a lot
1:02:47of the creator and he's brought it up to
1:02:49Woody and I we've talked about it and he
1:02:50says he's got a line on it and we both
1:02:52said,
1:02:55"Awesome.
1:02:57show us.
1:02:58Um, that's as far as this has gone. Um,
1:03:03I think we've talked about that. I I I I
1:03:05missed that. I loved that series. It was
1:03:06my favorite thing to watch on TV and I
1:03:08happen to be in it, but I just was I
1:03:10loved it. I watched it every Sunday
1:03:11night like everybody else.
1:03:12>> Um,
1:03:15and
1:03:18in a series, it was the first time,
1:03:21especially now, because things are
1:03:22getting abbreviated. The first acts of
1:03:24stories are getting abbreviated more and
1:03:26more I'm finding and I don't know if
1:03:28this is because oh people's attention
1:03:30span are shorter just introduce
1:03:32characters and let's get on with the
1:03:32conflict but act two starts on page 12.
1:03:35It used to start on page 37 38 and now
1:03:38it starts on page 12. And I'm like man
1:03:40the actor's favorite part is act one
1:03:42because that's where we're going okay
1:03:45maybe you've seen it before but you
1:03:46hadn't seen it with me. You hadn't gone
1:03:48on this journey with this character. Let
1:03:49me introduce you before the conflict
1:03:51arises to this world and this character
1:03:53and my behavior and my relationship so
1:03:55you can go on a journey with us with me
1:03:57like you've never gone through this
1:03:58before.
1:03:59>> Well, those are getting reduced. The
1:04:02series of True Detective, eight series,
1:04:05eight hour episodes, man. I got three
1:04:08hours. I got I got 190 pages of an act
1:04:12one.
1:04:14Um
1:04:15that's a luxury and a beautiful thing to
1:04:18have to sit there and go okay you don't
1:04:21and it takes took me a lot of patience
1:04:22cuz I almost made some choices. I was I
1:04:25remember sitting there after a month in
1:04:26thinking like I think what I'm doing may
1:04:29be really boring and I was like no trust
1:04:31trust when when rust becomes crash it's
1:04:34going to flip. Trust getting there. But
1:04:37I was sitting there going and I was
1:04:38going to Nick and Carrie on is this
1:04:40boring what I'm doing? And they were
1:04:42like, "No, stick with it." I was like,
1:04:43"Okay." I go, "You're you see stuff
1:04:45bubbling underneath." They're like,
1:04:46"Yeah." I was like, "Okay." Cuz I'm
1:04:48getting anty, you know.
1:04:54>> So, if that came along and it was the
1:04:56right script, be a great collaboration
1:04:58again. Tell you who I had on the show
1:05:00last week in London, Bugsy Malone, and
1:05:03uh he was telling me a few stories about
1:05:05what he learned working with Guy Richie.
1:05:06>> Yeah. What have you learned working with
1:05:08Guy?
1:05:12Guy
1:05:16is great in the moment, but you ask guy
1:05:20to work on anything
1:05:22or talk about what we lump for dinner
1:05:25tonight and it may be six o'clock.
1:05:27That's too far in the future.
1:05:30That son of a gun. He wrote he he he
1:05:34wrote the script and I go in and I my
1:05:36character had great monologues and great
1:05:38things to say and it takes a lot of work
1:05:40to work on those things and working to
1:05:42understand them and I'd show up on the
1:05:43day and he we'd always sit down let's
1:05:45hear it and he'd be over there listening
1:05:47and all of a sudden be like oh god what
1:05:48did you say gez what was that line there
1:05:50oh god that's rubbish who wrote that
1:05:53well you did like oh god that's [ __ ] you
1:05:55know what and he starts spitting out
1:05:57different lines and he's rewriting on
1:05:58the day like right before you're
1:06:00supposed to do the scene not the morning
1:06:02of and definitely not on a Sunday before
1:06:04the week. I'd ask him to meet me on
1:06:05Sunday to go to the script. He stood me
1:06:07up every time, every time. But you get
1:06:10on set and now he's in it. And the stuff
1:06:14he comes up with live
1:06:17where I went from frustration to like,
1:06:19oh, because 95% of the stuff he comes up
1:06:22with live is better
1:06:24>> than what was there. And so I started to
1:06:27go, okay, it's a meter. It's it's a
1:06:30musical meter of speech patterns that
1:06:31he's hearing. Pop pop pop. And there's
1:06:34no ums in any of his stuff. It's sharp.
1:06:37You know, it's it's it's it's noun verb,
1:06:39non-verb, noun, verb, maybe an
1:06:41adjective, adverb in there somewhere.
1:06:42Period. Bam. Pop pop. And he hears it on
1:06:47the in the moment. And again, he's
1:06:49funny. He'll call out something that
1:06:50you'll think I thought was some of this
1:06:51genius stuff he wrote. And you'd be
1:06:52like, "Oh god, that's [ __ ] Who wrote
1:06:54that?" Like, "Well, you did." He's like,
1:06:55"Well, that's rubbish. Throw it out."
1:06:58He's like the uh he's like the freestyle
1:07:00rapper of the director world.
1:07:02>> Yeah. And I I loved after I got past
1:07:05frustration. I I mean I enjoyed him and
1:07:07working with enjoyed him before I
1:07:10enjoyed working with him. And then I
1:07:11understood the way he worked and
1:07:13continued to enjoy him and enjoyed
1:07:14working with him.
1:07:17>> I really enjoyed working with the guy
1:07:18and the way his mind works, his
1:07:20attention when it's live, when it's
1:07:22time. Now we're in it. Now we're at the
1:07:25table. We are all here to shoot the
1:07:27scene. Let's sit down now and read
1:07:29through this how it sounds. But you want
1:07:30to do this an hour before? You want to
1:07:32do this back in the trailer? Uh-uh.
1:07:34>> Uh-uh.
1:07:37That's exciting. That's like a
1:07:38tightroppe.
1:07:40>> Yeah.
1:07:41So, I had to go between, you know,
1:07:44what's worth learning anything in the
1:07:47damn script to No, no, no, no, no. You
1:07:49know, there's certain things. Of course,
1:07:51you're reading this thing the night
1:07:52before thinking, I know 50% of this is
1:07:54going to be thrown out tomorrow.
1:07:56>> 60%. You know, um, but like I said, when
1:08:00you look and you hear it and you go in
1:08:02the moment, you go,
1:08:05"That is better." Yeah. And the hard
1:08:07part is right after you hear it's better
1:08:09and you agree it's better, it's like,
1:08:11"Okay, let's shoot it." And like, well,
1:08:12hang on. I I need to It was a lot. Let
1:08:16me have a look at it. You know what I
1:08:17mean? Let me try and at least memorize
1:08:18some of it.
1:08:19>> Yeah.
1:08:22>> Apparently, you've shot at Stray Vista
1:08:23before. Did you have a cactus? Did you
1:08:25have a
1:08:27>> uh I had many cactuses in many places
1:08:30that had a cactus. I was telling a story
1:08:31to someone a couple days ago. I think
1:08:34it's the picture on the back of the book
1:08:35where my Airstream is there. I believe
1:08:37that's in Utah. Mhm.
1:08:39>> And I remember that place because I
1:08:41pulled off the side of the road about
1:08:425:00 p.m. one afternoon and I went on
1:08:44this dirt road through this camp that
1:08:46was crystal meth. They were hacking it
1:08:49up and the the the the wandering eyes
1:08:52and the twitches, they were all out
1:08:54there watching me pull in. And I'd
1:08:56learned from being on the road enough
1:08:57that it was me and my dog that when you
1:09:00go and you know some possible uh um uh
1:09:05danger in the people that are around.
1:09:07You got to watch how you get out. You
1:09:09got to watch how you drive. You got to
1:09:10watch how deliberately you back that
1:09:12thing up. You got to watch how you get
1:09:13out of the car, how you walk deliberate,
1:09:14how you got your shoulders back.
1:09:16>> And you also, it's a good idea to grab
1:09:18the baseball bat and do some stretches
1:09:20with it with your shirt, you know, and
1:09:22your dogs out. And while you know
1:09:24they're over there a half mile away with
1:09:26the binoculars, you just enough to
1:09:28hopefully have them go,
1:09:30>> "Well, maybe let's pick the next guy."
1:09:32You know what I mean? And that night, I
1:09:34slept there and went to bed and I woke
1:09:36up at 4:00 a.m. to this sound. And of
1:09:39course, I already had on my mind if in
1:09:40case they come to break it, it wasn't
1:09:42them. I, unbeknownst to me, had pulled
1:09:44up 6 ft away from a a
1:09:48rail train rail and a train came by at 4
1:09:52in the freaking morning and and I was 6
1:09:55feet from it and that's what I woke up
1:09:56from in that spot.
1:09:58>> So, you do feel at home. We just need a
1:09:59train going by.
1:10:00>> Train would be right on the backside.
1:10:02Yeah, right on the backside. Um, in
1:10:04deserts, you know, you got me in the
1:10:05desert. This is my This is where I I
1:10:07feel most at home in deserts.
1:10:09>> Um, I don't know what it is. Deserts are
1:10:11like cats. They're so feline, you know.
1:10:14Everything's incredibly clean. There's
1:10:16no mildew. There's no uh uh the
1:10:19moisture's not there. If something rots,
1:10:20it dries.
1:10:22>> It doesn't. There's no bacteria. And I
1:10:25just love the cleanliness of a of a
1:10:27desert. I get a lot of energy in the
1:10:29desert.
1:10:31>> What's the difference between a nice guy
1:10:33and a good man?
1:10:34>> Yeah.
1:10:35um you know, right about that and there,
1:10:38but a nice guy has is about some a nice
1:10:41guy gets along. Yeah, do that. Yeah,
1:10:44I'll do that. They don't necessarily
1:10:45have discernment or judgment. Not sure
1:10:47what they stand for or stand against.
1:10:49It's like, yes, yes, yes, sure. Yeah.
1:10:51Hey, a good man has ideals that they
1:10:54stand for and they'll stand against and
1:10:56when they're tested,
1:10:58a good man is not a nice guy. Um that's
1:11:02in the chapter of Manning Up.
1:11:05You know, that's I was that time when I
1:11:09was doing the romcoms and that's all I
1:11:10could do. I was feeling like my work was
1:11:12just me as a nice guy. And in life, I
1:11:14was not just a nice guy. Like I said,
1:11:16Camila's pregnant. I got a child coming.
1:11:18I was I was feral with masculinity.
1:11:22and and
1:11:25my work. Maybe I was feeling a bit
1:11:26neutered.
1:11:27>> And I was like, well, I'm I'm I'm I'm
1:11:31a good guy and a good man in life, but
1:11:33I'm just a nice guy at work. Can I be a
1:11:36roles that can be a a good man?
1:11:39>> And that was dramas. Cuz in dramas, you
1:11:41can stand for or stand against
1:11:42something. Your ceiling for pleasure and
1:11:44your basement for fame are up to you.
1:11:46How do you feel about it? And no
1:11:48direction can go that's too much or
1:11:51that's not enough.
1:11:53You got too angry there. Oh, you meant
1:11:56that too much. Those that that didn't
1:11:58come in a drama. Those come in a romcom,
1:12:00right? Cuz the emotions and how you feel
1:12:02are compressed to be in a buoyant level
1:12:04in a threshold that's up bouncing from
1:12:06cloud to cloud only. Dramas are as much
1:12:08pain, as much evil as you want to go, as
1:12:11deep dark you want to go. Get there.
1:12:12Let's see how far you go.
1:12:14how high you want to fly, how close to
1:12:17that sun you get before you before you
1:12:19get burned, go see how far you go.
1:12:21That's what you get in drama. Much more
1:12:23like real life. Um, and so,
1:12:28you know, good guys, being a good good
1:12:31being a good man's a lot harder
1:12:33for good reason. Not going to be most
1:12:36popular, not going to be always most
1:12:39affable.
1:12:40Um, it also doesn't mean you got to be a
1:12:43dick or an [ __ ] Just means sometimes
1:12:46you got to go, I believe in this, is
1:12:48this for me, this is for me, and that is
1:12:50not for me. And because that is not for
1:12:53me, if you do trespass
1:12:55>> into my space upon me and my family,
1:12:59there will be I will do my best to cause
1:13:01consequences.
1:13:03And I'm going to let you know that. I
1:13:04want I hope that's apparent because I'm
1:13:07not going to intrude on you, but if you
1:13:09trespass that I mean I'm
1:13:12I'm going to stand up for it and that we
1:13:15can talk our way out of that. Great.
1:13:18No, it doesn't always work that way.
1:13:21You know, a good man's not looking for
1:13:24trouble,
1:13:25you know. Um, but if it comes and if he
1:13:30or something he cares about unless we're
1:13:32susceptible
1:13:33to being trusted on but trespassed on by
1:13:35trouble, a good man
1:13:38does what he can to do to stop that. So
1:13:41Aaron Bugsy um
1:13:44tells this story. He famously had his
1:13:48house robbery attempt occurred on his
1:13:51very nice house in Manchester.
1:13:52Manchester's got some spicy individuals
1:13:55in it from the gang culture and there is
1:13:59a CCTV video of him. Now by this point,
1:14:02this is I think 21 or 22. So he's been
1:14:06in the first movie. He has had multiple
1:14:10huge albums, world tour rapping, done
1:14:13all the things. Most played fire in the
1:14:15booth, freestyle in history, all of this
1:14:17stuff, right? Uh so you might think even
1:14:20though he came from below the streets
1:14:22sort of he came from the sewers uh as a
1:14:25kid
1:14:26he has a public image to keep up. Maybe
1:14:28he's got soft the sort of velvet prison
1:14:33silk pajamas problem.
1:14:34>> And he told me this story and uh his
1:14:38girlfriend rings. She's in the house.
1:14:40These men are trying to break in.
1:14:42There's a barricade. So he's driving
1:14:43back with his sister in the car. He's
1:14:45driving back and there's a guy by the
1:14:47side of the road and he can see he's got
1:14:48a brick in his hand. So, uh, Aaron stops
1:14:52the car, opens the door, and immediately
1:14:55says, "Mate, is that you? Blue shirt.
1:14:57That's such a nice blue shirt." And as
1:14:58he's moving toward him, he puts his
1:14:59hands in the air like this. He's moving
1:15:00towards him. He's moving towards he's
1:15:01moved to Hits this guy. Brick drops,
1:15:04finishes him off, gets back in the car,
1:15:06and this bit's captured on CCTV and
1:15:08somebody overlaid it with the call to
1:15:10the police. So, there's a 999 call going
1:15:13on.
1:15:13>> Yay. from I think his mom who's in the
1:15:16house. These men are trying to break in
1:15:18and you see him pull up in this
1:15:21Mercedes. This guy been in movies and
1:15:24all the rest of it and it's a van of
1:15:27dudes. It's a van of men
1:15:28>> trying to break in.
1:15:29>> Yes. Yeah. You're trying to rob his
1:15:30house and see he's rich. He's got
1:15:33something that we want.
1:15:35>> He's already dealt with one of them.
1:15:37Think he might have dealt with another
1:15:38one of them as well. And he pulls in in
1:15:42this fancy Mercedes. You see this guy
1:15:44who has got kind of world at his feet
1:15:48opens the door to his Mercedes, pulls
1:15:50his shirt off and just sprints at this
1:15:52van. And he it was [ __ ] electric. He
1:15:56told me this story is so electric.
1:15:58>> And that's on CCTV.
1:16:00>> That's great. There's best video he ever
1:16:02made right there, huh?
1:16:03>> So hardcore. It's so hardcore.
1:16:06>> Um but yeah, that's you know, good man,
1:16:08not a nice guy.
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1:17:17I I guess are there any principles or
1:17:20have you learned when it comes to the
1:17:22masculinity thing, are there any
1:17:23principles that you refuse to compromise
1:17:25on?
1:17:36Let's define let's let's have fun trying
1:17:39to define masculinity here. I think
1:17:41we've
1:17:43rightfully so
1:17:46come out of the chasm that macho is
1:17:49masculinity.
1:17:52I think
1:17:54through
1:17:56certain perceived and not perceived and
1:17:59realistic overcompensations of say a me
1:18:01too movement
1:18:05that
1:18:07some men felt
1:18:10shamed to be masculine.
1:18:13Good men felt that way. I know for a
1:18:16fact and again I want to say to all the
1:18:19women out there this has nothing to do
1:18:21with being exclusive of the rise of uh
1:18:25the rights and power of women but in
1:18:28that over conversation there are a lot
1:18:30of men that I know who were looking for
1:18:33that definition that feel like
1:18:37>> I've been told what it's not
1:18:38>> and now I don't know what it is and
1:18:43[ __ ] I just opened the door for her.
1:18:46[ __ ] I'm done. Well, it certain and and
1:18:50and and I bring that up and sometimes
1:18:52friends like, "Oh, that's frivolous."
1:18:53No, but it's it's part of it. It's one
1:18:55example of of like that's not what
1:18:57that's not what me too meant
1:19:00in the over conversation, especially
1:19:01when they said come one, come all
1:19:05and Azizeri got thrown up there with
1:19:08Harvey Weinstein is the same crime.
1:19:10You're going no that's not the same.
1:19:11Hang on a minute. Not
1:19:12>> the same.
1:19:15There are a lot of men trying to
1:19:16understand what that is. And like
1:19:18anybody, they're not going to go down,
1:19:21you know, anything to be corrected.
1:19:22Everyone overcompensates.
1:19:24You know what I mean? And but that
1:19:26there's men looking for a redefinition
1:19:28of what masculinity is.
1:19:32And
1:19:34there is a difference. There are some
1:19:36wonderful, beautiful differences between
1:19:38men and women, thankfully,
1:19:41>> biologically.
1:19:43um not always exclusive of each other,
1:19:46you know, not and but there's nothing
1:19:52that I see this cuz is is right up there
1:19:54at the top of what's one of the best
1:19:56thing for women all over the world is
1:19:58more good men
1:20:01and
1:20:03a masculine
1:20:05truly masculine man is not an oppressor.
1:20:09Truly masculine man is not macho. It's
1:20:12not chauvinist,
1:20:14but he's damn sure masculine. Most
1:20:17masculine I've ever felt
1:20:19after the birth of my first child.
1:20:22Never were my head, heart, and loins in
1:20:26such synchronicity. And the power that I
1:20:30had was I mean it's probably the best
1:20:33husband ever at that time, too.
1:20:37Men want to be, and I don't know if this
1:20:40is biological because I'm not saying
1:20:42women don't, but men want to and are
1:20:44looking for
1:20:46ways to be relied upon.
1:20:51And so we say, "Yeah, but you always
1:20:53want to be the savior and you always
1:20:54want the solution." Okay,
1:20:57cool.
1:20:59There's nothing wrong with wanting to
1:21:01find the solution to things.
1:21:04>> Great. Let's work with that.
1:21:07Thank you women for saying glad you got
1:21:10the solution, but just listen to me for
1:21:12a second, Lauren, cuz I'm not looking
1:21:13for a solution. Actually, I just want to
1:21:14talk this out and I'll probably answer
1:21:15my own question. You know what I mean?
1:21:19Doesn't mean don't be the male side of
1:21:22you that wants to find the solution or
1:21:23wants to be relied upon.
1:21:26It's being redefined now. And uh there's
1:21:30a lot of uh I talked to him and a lot of
1:21:34young men and middle-aged men that are
1:21:35looking, you know, part of this role I
1:21:37got to play in this last film, The Lost
1:21:39Bus. It was not, you know, visible to me
1:21:42that I was also representing a large
1:21:44group of men who were middle-aged who
1:21:47woke up and looked around. I'm like, "Oh
1:21:49[ __ ]
1:21:50this isn't where I thought I'd be. Oh
1:21:53[ __ ] I haven't built anything."
1:21:57failed marriages, failed jobs. Some of
1:22:01them did it all right, too. A lot of
1:22:04them when things got tough, they snuck
1:22:06out the back door.
1:22:08>> Got the divorce, didn't go one step
1:22:10further, didn't show up, and that caught
1:22:12up with them. Uh, but that's also a
1:22:15large group of the demographic of men
1:22:17going like, "Well, what does masculinity
1:22:19mean? How and where can I be relied
1:22:21upon? That gives me dignity to be
1:22:24relied. That gives me significance.
1:22:27Call it what you want, but if you think
1:22:30that's true, and I do, there's nothing
1:22:33wrong with that.
1:22:37So,
1:22:38what is masculinity?
1:22:42You know, I'm not going to, you know,
1:22:46let's get past the what are some of your
1:22:48definitions of or understandings of what
1:22:51masculinity is? If we were going to say,
1:22:53"Men, here's something that you should
1:22:56expect of yourself and pursue
1:22:59as a biological male."
1:23:01>> Mhm.
1:23:02>> You know, it seems like a lot of the
1:23:05definitions converge on similar sorts of
1:23:07traits. Um,
1:23:10emotional composure tends to be one of
1:23:12them. Uh, competence
1:23:16tends to be another.
1:23:18um the ability to be decisive.
1:23:21>> Yeah.
1:23:21>> Is another of those.
1:23:23>> So, we're starting to build this sort of
1:23:25suite of traits,
1:23:26>> right,
1:23:27>> that it is. Uh but
1:23:31as soon as you start to try and alter
1:23:32the edge cases, so well I mean you know
1:23:36going to have somebody who's
1:23:38uh got emotional control
1:23:41or that uh even slightly at its extreme
1:23:45is a denial of emotions and no
1:23:47vulnerability,
1:23:48>> right?
1:23:49>> Sort of uh all the bad bits of stoicism
1:23:51with none of the good bits,
1:23:52>> right?
1:23:53>> Uh and then okay, you want uh sort of
1:23:55competence. Well, that very quickly sort
1:23:58of turns into uh single-minded progress
1:24:01at all costs regardless of what anybody
1:24:04else thinks.
1:24:06>> And uh decisiveness turns into being
1:24:08doineering
1:24:09>> and certain.
1:24:10>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't need to listen
1:24:12I don't need to listen to you. Um, so I
1:24:15think
1:24:17it is a a very delicate balance and I I
1:24:19I think it's a good point to say um me
1:24:23too was an important rebalance to men
1:24:29being able to use their positions of
1:24:30power to get access to women in ways
1:24:32that they shouldn't have done.
1:24:33>> Mhm.
1:24:34>> And the goal of me too was to sanitize
1:24:37the toxic elements of men's behavior,
1:24:40but instead it just sterilized all of
1:24:42them. It sterilized all of the elements
1:24:44of its behavior. I think it
1:24:45>> and I think it's when it became so many
1:24:48movements are are right on when it's a
1:24:50rifle, but as soon as they become
1:24:52general admission.
1:24:54>> Yeah.
1:24:55>> It becomes the shotgun spread and it's
1:24:56like, well, we got to Yeah. Come on.
1:24:59>> Yeah.
1:24:59>> I don't know. You telling the truth? Oh,
1:25:00it doesn't matter. Yeah.
1:25:02>> That's it. stops being the opportunity
1:25:04to uh rebalance something and it starts
1:25:07being an opportunity to grind an axe and
1:25:09continue to sort of put your foot on the
1:25:11neck of of somebody else. So I think um
1:25:14yeah you end up with this
1:25:16>> this strange situation especially around
1:25:18me too. This is a pattern I mentioned to
1:25:20you last time about uh type A people
1:25:21with type B problems and type B people
1:25:23with type A problems. And the theme of
1:25:26that is
1:25:28advice that's given on mass
1:25:31is uh sometimes right even for the
1:25:34majority but will be um absorbed
1:25:38asymmetrically. If you uh give everybody
1:25:40the same supplements, some people will
1:25:42be hyperresponders and some people will
1:25:43not respond at all. And sometimes the
1:25:45hyperresponders are the people who
1:25:47didn't need it already,
1:25:48>> right?
1:25:48>> So an example when it comes to the me
1:25:50too thing is the men who
1:25:54really needed to heed don't be pushy are
1:25:58precisely the men that that message will
1:26:00not work on. And the men who are most
1:26:02likely to take it to heart,
1:26:04>> right,
1:26:05>> are the ones who probably needed a
1:26:06little bit more encouragement to go up
1:26:09to that girl in the bar. So if you're
1:26:10the type of guy who's who's a little bit
1:26:13more insular and a little bit more
1:26:15concerned and you didn't want to make
1:26:16her feel uncomfortable and you had
1:26:17approach anxiety and then like believe
1:26:20all women do not the toxic male gays you
1:26:23do not need to do the thing you're going
1:26:24to think oh I knew I knew all along that
1:26:27that was the case I must not I must not
1:26:29do this thing whereas if you're the sort
1:26:31of guy who was already being way too
1:26:33pushy
1:26:35>> unfortunately this advice is there are
1:26:39hyperresponders and those that aren't.
1:26:41And unfortunately, a lot of the time the
1:26:42people that are most likely to respond
1:26:43to bits of advice. And this is the same
1:26:45thing when it comes to men should be
1:26:47vulnerable.
1:26:49Men should show their emotions more. Out
1:26:51of the paniply, the full spectrum of
1:26:54men. Who do you think is most likely to
1:26:57take on board the message? Men should be
1:26:59more vulnerable.
1:27:02Men who are already
1:27:03>> already vulnerable.
1:27:04>> They've got a disposition to be more
1:27:05vulnerable. the guys that have got the
1:27:08denial of emotions, you know, boomer
1:27:11absent father
1:27:14[ __ ] generational trauma passed down
1:27:16thing. They're not taking their own
1:27:18board. And uh it's just I I think it's a
1:27:22fascinating challenge that we face when
1:27:25you say
1:27:27the people who most need to hear a
1:27:28message are often the ones that are
1:27:30least likely to hear it. And when you
1:27:32scatter gun it across everyone,
1:27:35>> you can actually not reduce down the in
1:27:39the bad incidents you're trying to get
1:27:40rid of.
1:27:41>> Yeah.
1:27:41>> And further reduce down the good that
1:27:43you were hoping to hold on to. It's a
1:27:45solvent that works in reverse and it
1:27:47strips away the stuff that you were
1:27:48trying to keep,
1:27:49>> right?
1:27:50>> And doesn't get rid of the bad stuff you
1:27:51wanted to
1:27:53>> evacuate. So what can we
1:27:56all learn?
1:27:58What can men learn and what can women
1:28:00learn? In fact, okay, what do we learn
1:28:03from that heavy me too era where it was
1:28:10a toxic access that was you were getting
1:28:12away with it and all of a sudden? Uh-uh.
1:28:14And I agree,
1:28:17but not to emasculate the good men or
1:28:21not have the ones that maybe were not
1:28:25offenders, but boy, right? you know, a
1:28:28little bit more macho to have them not
1:28:30puff the chest out more and go, "Well,
1:28:32I'm going to double down on the macho to
1:28:34push that back."
1:28:35>> Cuz I I probably see it as a little more
1:28:40progressive of a of a of a time in the
1:28:42way that I agree the ones that maybe
1:28:46were shy trying to recede, we're now
1:28:48going, "Holy [ __ ] I was right." But I
1:28:51also do think that it did
1:28:53>> Oh, for chopped down tree and reminded a
1:28:56lot that you go, you better back off.
1:28:57Better back down, boy.
1:28:58>> 100%.
1:28:59>> Yeah,
1:28:59>> 100%. It wasn't, that's not me saying
1:29:00it's all bad, obviously. Um, but it's uh
1:29:04>> thinking about the asymmetry of
1:29:06absorption uh when it comes to stuff
1:29:08like that. Uh
1:29:09>> yeah,
1:29:11>> I think
1:29:15one of the things that I would hope
1:29:18we've learned from that situation
1:29:21is, you know, the idea of Chesterton's
1:29:24fence.
1:29:24>> Yeah.
1:29:25>> Okay. So, uh GK Chesterton talks about
1:29:27um a liberal and a conservative come
1:29:29across a a fence post. Two two fence
1:29:31posts in the field
1:29:33>> here right in front of us. Is there a
1:29:35fence here? And I don't have a fence,
1:29:36but you can imagine there's a fence
1:29:38here. Yeah. Yeah. Two fence post with a
1:29:40little bit of like wire between them.
1:29:42And the liberal would say, "I see no
1:29:45reason for this fence. We should break
1:29:47it down." Conservative would say, "Hey,
1:29:49hey, hey, hold on a second.
1:29:52Someone put that there. Maybe it is
1:29:53there for a reason." and the tension
1:29:56between uh innovation, novelty,
1:30:01adventurousness, openness
1:30:03and uh respect for tradition, stasis,
1:30:07status quo. Uh on the other side, this
1:30:09is the perennial push and pull. How much
1:30:12should we throw out these old traditions
1:30:15and how much should we and I think
1:30:18we
1:30:20learned a lesson
1:30:24to maybe temper the throttle a little
1:30:26bit to just sort of feather it as
1:30:28opposed to um
1:30:32whitewashing. And
1:30:35I you made a great point which is women
1:30:39want eligible men.
1:30:41And this is why a zero sum view of
1:30:45empathy. Uh that if you give a degree of
1:30:49empathy toward the plightes of men
1:30:51despite the fact that for most of human
1:30:52history they had some benefits that
1:30:55women didn't apart from like the war and
1:30:57the death and the homelessness and the
1:30:58drug addiction and the you know so on
1:30:59and so forth. Um,
1:31:02if you say we can't give empathy to
1:31:05these people because it'll take away
1:31:06empathy, which is not how empathy works.
1:31:08>> No, it's not exclusive of the other,
1:31:10that's that's
1:31:11>> it's not zero sum. It's not a limited
1:31:12resource that we have. Um
1:31:16if you say uh boohoo poor patriarchy sad
1:31:24complaining
1:31:26in the same breath
1:31:29uh men do not deserve sympathy. They've
1:31:33had it good for so long. We don't need
1:31:35to raise them up. And in the next
1:31:38sentence saying where are all of the
1:31:39good men at?
1:31:40>> Yeah. is mating logic. Sepuku. Yeah.
1:31:43Right.
1:31:44>> Uh and yeah, I just I get the sense if
1:31:47any group has an issue,
1:31:49almost any group in society, we spend
1:31:51billions of money in taxpayer funded
1:31:54dollars to set up surveys and
1:31:57initiatives.
1:32:00We don't tell them to pull themselves up
1:32:01by their bootstraps. If men have a
1:32:04problem, it is treated in a very, very
1:32:07unique way. anybody else on the planet
1:32:08has a problem, we say, "What can we do
1:32:10to fix society?" But if men have a
1:32:11problem, we say, "What is it men are
1:32:13doing where they don't fix themselves?"
1:32:14>> And this is just a price that we need to
1:32:16pay. As guys, it's a price we need to
1:32:17pay. I've kind of given up on fighting
1:32:18against it.
1:32:19>> But I certainly think after the last few
1:32:21years, maybe we can
1:32:23>> dust settle here.
1:32:24>> Okay, we've exercised that demon. Let's
1:32:28[ __ ] start a new,
1:32:29>> right? Yeah. I'm with you. You know, I I
1:32:34one of the things I was questioning a
1:32:36lot of my
1:32:37friends of mine and some many of them
1:32:40females that were around the leadership
1:32:43from the Me Too movement was
1:32:46when are you going to start inviting
1:32:49good men, you know, to these gatherings?
1:32:54Well, come on. That's it's not you're
1:32:57not it's not a at the end it's not a
1:32:59battle of the sexes. It's in a behavior
1:33:01that you're getting saying, "Hey, no
1:33:02more of that."
1:33:03>> That the male was doing great. Now that
1:33:06that's understood, there's a lot of men
1:33:07that agree.
1:33:08>> I I I remember, you know, it was like
1:33:13a lot of people in my industry, men I
1:33:15knew were like
1:33:17would tweet out when it first happened
1:33:20after the wine seed stuff, well, I just
1:33:21want to go on record and let you know I
1:33:23don't I I don't believe in Rick either.
1:33:24And I was like, what are you doing,
1:33:25dude? You're kind of setting it up like
1:33:28was that questionable before?
1:33:31And then it was if you didn't write that
1:33:34or something like that. It was like
1:33:37>> was the the black square of me. I was
1:33:40never
1:33:40>> Yeah. The black square of me too. Yeah.
1:33:42Yeah. Yeah.
1:33:42>> I was never I was I I I wasn't on the
1:33:45fence about it before, you know. Um and
1:33:48that, you know, that that was not was
1:33:50was more than different than just funny,
1:33:52but I remember that being an odd
1:33:54reaction. Um yeah. So yeah, I hope the
1:33:57dust settles and I believe it is
1:33:59settling
1:34:00>> now because I know um uh
1:34:04that uh
1:34:06a lot of people and women included that
1:34:09are friends of mine that were a large
1:34:10part of the me too movement would I
1:34:12think in some part agree with what we're
1:34:14saying going we don't want to we're not
1:34:16talking about cancelling men. You know
1:34:19what I That's not that was cancelling
1:34:21masculinity and that would be not a good
1:34:24thing to do for men or women.
1:34:26>> Correct. It's creating the exact earth
1:34:28of eligible male partners that they say
1:34:29that they're looking for.
1:34:30>> Yeah. Uh you've got this great line
1:34:32where you say so many people are
1:34:33obsessed with how to live longer instead
1:34:35of how to live better.
1:34:36>> Yeah.
1:34:37>> How do you come to think about that?
1:34:40>> Quantity
1:34:42success without the profit.
1:34:44Oh, how much more can I get?
1:34:49It's I I'm I'm I'm for it. The
1:34:52longevity, I'm I'm for it. But in in the
1:34:56pursuit of it, are we measuring quality
1:34:58of life on along the way? Some people
1:35:00aren't. And I I personally don't want to
1:35:06have the highest number, but then go
1:35:10that wasn't any fun or I didn't enjoy
1:35:11that or I didn't
1:35:14that sucked.
1:35:17I'm just trying to remind everyone that
1:35:19just like in business when I say success
1:35:20without the profit, we have plenty of
1:35:22people that succeed. If you got the most
1:35:23money, the most toys, you succeed. And
1:35:26we talked about those people earlier
1:35:27that have at the end of the day have
1:35:29problems in with relationships or they
1:35:30can't sleep or they can't get the dick
1:35:32up, whatever. They didn't profit.
1:35:34They're not profiting with their
1:35:35success. Profit measures quality with
1:35:38the quantity. So I'm saying real success
1:35:40is when you have profit. Well, really
1:35:43great longevity would be for those
1:35:46quality years, quality time left in this
1:35:48life. Um, I also say that because while
1:35:52I'm not looking forward to it, I'm not
1:35:53really afraid of death or dying. Not
1:35:56looking forward to it.
1:35:58Shaking my boots if I'm face to face
1:36:01with that great white, you know what I
1:36:02mean? I'm not looking forward to it.
1:36:04>> But
1:36:07I see it as a obviously it's inevitable
1:36:10and obviously I I personally see it as a
1:36:12hopefully a comma,
1:36:13>> you know, not a period.
1:36:16So
1:36:19the number the higher number
1:36:22I don't know
1:36:25just I think we got just watch being
1:36:26obsessed with that at the expense of
1:36:28quality of life.
1:36:30>> Is it the trade-off or do the two work
1:36:32in tandem
1:36:33>> is what the trade-off obsessed with how
1:36:35to live longer than how to live better.
1:36:36Do do you think it detracts?
1:36:39>> No, I don't think it I don't think it
1:36:41necessarily detracts,
1:36:43>> but it can. I do think
1:36:46inevitably you might be if you're so
1:36:48obsessed with the projection length that
1:36:51you're going to miss
1:36:53>> a couple of really really worthwhile
1:36:56parties now
1:36:58where you may learn something have a the
1:37:01great love of life take a certain risk
1:37:03that oh you may not make it out of that
1:37:06but we're going to do it anyway.
1:37:09Um and I'm all for projection. It's a
1:37:12lot of what my g my it's a lot of my
1:37:15jam. How far can we project in the
1:37:17future? Boy, the further we can project
1:37:19the further I think we can see in the
1:37:21past. The more we have the ability to
1:37:23invest in ourselves today to get that
1:37:25more ROI tomorrow. I just think an
1:37:27obsession with the number can sometimes
1:37:30get in the way of seeing
1:37:32more of an obsession with the quality
1:37:34and the meaning of what what we're doing
1:37:35right here. What's now and tomorrow?
1:37:37>> Is there something you do to remind
1:37:39yourself to inject more fun into your
1:37:41life?
1:37:43Uh, I mean, I've got some simple tricks,
1:37:46you know, if I'm not sure how to
1:37:48respond, try to make the default to
1:37:49motion, humor.
1:37:51>> Mhm.
1:37:52>> And I'm a big fan big fan of of of
1:37:55humor. And I wish we had more of it. Um,
1:37:57and I think it's how we're going to get
1:37:58through a lot of these things that we
1:38:00have. Um, is we're going to have to all
1:38:02giggle at a few things and go, "Yeah."
1:38:06And also at ourselves to be able to I'm
1:38:09still learning and getting better. I try
1:38:10not to giggle at myself when I bogey.
1:38:12>> You know what I mean? Just go,
1:38:13>> "Yep." And and and to not be afraid of
1:38:16that failure, to be able to fess up and
1:38:17go, "Yep, that was me." Oh, good gez,
1:38:19that didn't work. Um
1:38:23laughter. I think we we we we it's taken
1:38:28as being
1:38:31discompassionate sometimes or it's being
1:38:34insensitive
1:38:35>> and flippant.
1:38:36>> Yeah. like you're making you're making
1:38:39the crisis benign. You're not giving the
1:38:41crisis credit. No, I'm giving the crisis
1:38:44credit, but I'm saying the crisis has
1:38:46happened and now we got to deal with
1:38:47getting through this son of a [ __ ] So,
1:38:49it's going to be tough. So, let can we
1:38:51giggle our way through untying this
1:38:52knot? I'm not patronizing the crisis at
1:38:57all. I just want to go ahead and have a
1:38:59you know it's why you know uh um um uh
1:39:03the greatest comedians you know
1:39:04Chappelle he says stuff while the wounds
1:39:07people go you can't say that now the
1:39:08wound wound's too fresh it's why he's so
1:39:12smart and why he's so funny because he
1:39:15says it beforehand and calls it out
1:39:17>> Jimmy Car's got a bit about that where I
1:39:19think he says uh saying that there is a
1:39:21topic too sensitive to joke about is
1:39:24like saying there is a disease too
1:39:25serious to
1:39:28Okay. Okay. I like that. Wow. Yeah. You
1:39:32know. Yeah. What uh uh uh and humor as
1:39:36well with a is as a learning and a
1:39:39teaching tool and and and and a and a
1:39:41true humility with our own selves
1:39:45of what we can learn and how we can
1:39:47learn what we know and in written what
1:39:49we don't know. Um, and it's a uh it's
1:39:53it's a great way to
1:39:57not convert. It's a great way to help
1:39:59someone understand.
1:40:01>> It makes it it's why I'm rhyming in
1:40:04here. It's why some of these are
1:40:05diddies. It's why I'm saying let's sell
1:40:07Sunday morning like a Saturday night.
1:40:09Let's let's let's let's have a beer on
1:40:12the way to the temple. You know what I
1:40:13mean? It's it's more digestible. We can
1:40:16dance to it. And the broccoli actually
1:40:19does more than taste like candy. It is
1:40:21the candy.
1:40:23>> What's that? Uh, you got a poem called
1:40:25Life and Candy Crush. Is there a
1:40:26parallel between the two?
1:40:30>> I love that game. I love Candy Crush,
1:40:33guys. I said it.
1:40:34>> Yeah.
1:40:34>> You're out there. Send me some free
1:40:36lives or some a whole bunch of those
1:40:38prizes in there. Yeah. I I my kids
1:40:41always bust me for playing Candy Crush.
1:40:42I'm like, "This is a great game." And
1:40:43let me tell you why. So, I decided to
1:40:45put in there what I've shared with my
1:40:48children, what I've noticed.
1:40:49>> You've learned from the great game of
1:40:50Candy Crush.
1:40:50>> I've learned from the great game of
1:40:51Candy Crush. Yeah,
1:40:53>> that's funny. Um, I'm interested in
1:40:55where confidence comes from as far as
1:40:57you're concerned.
1:40:58>> Yeah.
1:41:02Well,
1:41:06it definitely comes
1:41:08from belief,
1:41:13not hope.
1:41:16It comes from
1:41:21pulling something off.
1:41:23Comes from, oh, I I I I I think I got an
1:41:26ability to do that. Let me work on that.
1:41:28Let me prepare to do that. Oh, [ __ ] I'm
1:41:31not sure. Bam. I'm in the game. Action,
1:41:33cut, life or movie.
1:41:35>> Ah,
1:41:37I did it. I felt it, too. I know I did
1:41:40it. And you, who were the observer go,
1:41:43you did it. I got confidence. I
1:41:46personally felt it and it translated.
1:41:49Subjectively, I felt it. And
1:41:51objectively, you went, "Yep."
1:41:53Confidence. I make a big plan. I write
1:41:56something out. A plan for the day, the
1:41:58week, an an event, a circumstance, a
1:42:00scene. I write out all this stuff, what
1:42:02my incentive or what I want to do, what
1:42:04I hope comes from this. And I shut that
1:42:06and a year later I do that scene or I'm
1:42:08at that event and someone comes up
1:42:10afterwards and goes, "You know what that
1:42:11was, man? That was"
1:42:13And I'm like, "Yeah, that's exactly what
1:42:17I wrote
1:42:21a year ago."
1:42:22>> Yeah.
1:42:22>> It's what I wanted to do.
1:42:25Pulled it off without saying one of
1:42:26those words.
1:42:27>> That's what you got from it?
1:42:30>> Yes.
1:42:31confidence, identity,
1:42:34testing it out and it can work.
1:42:37Confidence to go, I'm going to try and
1:42:40pull this off. Maybe get away with it,
1:42:42maybe it won't work.
1:42:46Pulling things off, translating without
1:42:49saying
1:42:51the word or without manipulation.
1:42:53feeling when I in something that we have
1:42:57and I have an innate ability for
1:42:58something that I believe I have the
1:43:00innate ability and I learn to the reason
1:43:05behind that instinct and how to how to
1:43:08where's the right time timing. Oh, and
1:43:10it'll work I think right here. Who's the
1:43:11audience I'm talking to? Oh yeah, I'm
1:43:14going to make a plan
1:43:16>> for that sale if it's all sales for that
1:43:18transaction or whatever. And bam, it
1:43:20hits and it lands like I wanted it to.
1:43:23Dogs damn it. Was that deja vu? It
1:43:26happened. That's how I saw it. That I
1:43:30get confidence from that.
1:43:32Um,
1:43:38I've still working on and and and you
1:43:41know
1:43:43now I think even more
1:43:46in this I'm not going to say second half
1:43:47whatever the 50s
1:43:51humility while still maintaining
1:43:53confidence. I had a really tough
1:43:55relationship with humility, the
1:43:56definition,
1:43:58until I heard
1:44:01um I think it was Jordan Peterson's
1:44:04definition. Humility is admitting we
1:44:06have more to learn and I was like, "Oh,
1:44:09whoa. I'm in.
1:44:10>> I can get on board with that.
1:44:11>> Let me sign up." Because before that,
1:44:13humility to be humbled, to be
1:44:15humiliated. My shoulders would sink. I
1:44:18would be small
1:44:19>> passive and wouldn't speak up or there's
1:44:22the opportunity
1:44:24and I miss it
1:44:26and I was like man I don't think that's
1:44:28what it means but I don't know how to
1:44:30get around it.
1:44:32>> It funny how we need the definition of
1:44:33words to change a little bit like that
1:44:36some and that could be just a that can
1:44:37be a 180.
1:44:39>> You know what I heard the other day? I
1:44:40heard a fantastic new definition of
1:44:42vulnerability.
1:44:43>> What was it? said, "Vulnerability
1:44:47is saying your truth in spite of the
1:44:50consequences, especially when they're
1:44:52scary."
1:44:53>> Oh, see, that sounds fun.
1:44:55>> Get on board with that.
1:44:56>> That sounds fun. That's a That That's a
1:44:59different kind of surrender.
1:45:01>> Yeah. Say what's true in spite of the
1:45:03consequences.
1:45:03>> In spite of the consequences.
1:45:04>> Especially when it's scary.
1:45:05>> I'll be damned. Especially when it's
1:45:06scary.
1:45:06>> Yeah. Especially when it's scary.
1:45:08>> Ah, I like that. It's got offense to it.
1:45:11>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'm on the
1:45:12front foot.
1:45:13>> Yeah.
1:45:13>> Mhm. I feel like it's something that's
1:45:15noble.
1:45:15>> Yeah.
1:45:16>> Right. And it's the same with this
1:45:17rework or perhaps the original work of
1:45:20humility.
1:45:21>> Yeah.
1:45:22>> Brilliant. I can I can step forward into
1:45:24this.
1:45:24>> Not stepping back
1:45:25>> away from it. And I think specifically
1:45:27uh with men,
1:45:28>> I think uh
1:45:33>> it's a a perhaps a a very smart way to
1:45:37do a super secret squirrel technique,
1:45:39you know, Jedi mind trick to go,
1:45:41>> so this is not a step back. It's
1:45:43actually ically Brazilian jiu-jitsu this
1:45:45thing into you're going forward now.
1:45:48>> Um
1:45:50but yeah, I I I think
1:45:51>> and and and and
1:45:54dare I say women out there, did you hear
1:45:56that?
1:45:57>> Manipulate us to feel that way. Oh yeah,
1:45:59go for it. Manipulated all day into that
1:46:02and call us childish for wanting and
1:46:04needing that. Play it, man. We'll we'll
1:46:06take it.
1:46:07>> These are the these are the cheat codes.
1:46:08Let Let us lay them out in front of you.
1:46:10>> Yeah. You know, one of the best uh best
1:46:12bits of advice that I heard this sort of
1:46:15reframe that's similar to that. Um this
1:46:17guy was talking about he was in a
1:46:19relationship with a lady and he had to
1:46:22be clean shaven through the week and
1:46:24would leave his facial hair to grow over
1:46:26the weekend. By Sunday evening, you
1:46:28know, he's got enough stubble to really
1:46:29scratch. And his exartner would say, "I
1:46:33just hate on a Sunday where your face is
1:46:36scratching me in my mouth. I'm I'm so
1:46:37red and and and raw and it's so
1:46:39annoying. And uh needless to say, that
1:46:42relationship didn't work. And then he
1:46:44moved into another relationship and this
1:46:46new partner had the exact same
1:46:48preference, but said to him, "Honey, I
1:46:50find it so sexy when you're clean
1:46:52shaven.
1:46:53>> I think that's just the hottest thing in
1:46:55the world.
1:46:58>> Incentives. Incentives. Follow the
1:47:00incentives."
1:47:01>> Oh, just lay out that little breadcrumb
1:47:03in front of us. We will chase that
1:47:04carrot, man. It's it's it's we're lead
1:47:06pipe cent. It's so easy.
1:47:07>> Yeah.
1:47:08>> Yeah.
1:47:08>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um without
1:47:10complacency, trust that time is on your
1:47:13side.
1:47:14>> What do you mean that?
1:47:14>> Yeah, man. Don't get ahead behind it. I
1:47:18can get in a rush and I haven't found
1:47:22Look and I know how to hustle and let's
1:47:24go. The clock's ticking. We're all
1:47:26behind. All hands on deck. We got to
1:47:28bust ass. No time for pause. There's no
1:47:29sleep, no nothing. Get the caffeine out.
1:47:31Let's go. Mhm.
1:47:32>> Sometimes we got to do that, but that is
1:47:34usually because an unforeseen
1:47:36circumstance has happened that there's a
1:47:38crisis we got to deal with or we've uh
1:47:40procrastinated and I put myself in that
1:47:42position where I got we got to cram.
1:47:44>> Mhm.
1:47:44>> But
1:47:47it's not those two circumstances. We got
1:47:49to watch oursel getting ahead of time
1:47:52and it's on your side. It's a little
1:47:55what I mean about the living longer and
1:47:57living more quality. Time's on our side
1:47:59and we're forced to think and feel
1:48:02especially today with how fast things
1:48:04move that more productivity, faster
1:48:07pace, more information, faster pace,
1:48:09it's better. We're we're ahead of we're
1:48:11ahead of of time a lot and but time's
1:48:15still moving at the same speed and
1:48:18they're not given more than 24 hours a
1:48:19day. Even though me, like a lot of
1:48:21people are looking for more.
1:48:22>> There just not there's not there not any
1:48:24more unless you just want to change your
1:48:25workday and some people do. me, I need
1:48:27my 9 and a half hours sleep. If I want
1:48:29to say I'm getting four hours sleep and
1:48:30get five and a half miles more of a
1:48:31workday to be more productive, I would.
1:48:33But not to making that trade-off.
1:48:36>> It's on our side. And when we're feeling
1:48:39like we're dancing with time,
1:48:42I know I'm usually getting as much or
1:48:45I'm getting more done at the same pace
1:48:50>> than if I'm It's the John Wooden, a
1:48:53great basketball coach for UCLA. Be
1:48:55quick, but don't be in a hurry. That was
1:48:56his note to the his basketball players
1:48:59like be quick but don't be in a hurry.
1:49:01You will miss things. Um
1:49:04you know it's it's it's it's it's the
1:49:06Lego set, man. And you sit there and you
1:49:08get in a rush. You don't read the
1:49:09directions. You get to the end and
1:49:10you've got 12 pieces left and you're
1:49:12like [ __ ] Because you got in a hurry.
1:49:14You got ahead of time instead of just
1:49:17that feeling of I've checked out what I
1:49:20need to do and it's all adding up and
1:49:21this thing's built right and the
1:49:22foundation right and boom, there's the
1:49:23last piece. It fits. Voila. Was with
1:49:25time. time's on our side. It's not an
1:49:28enemy. The end, death is not the enemy.
1:49:33I do believe that part of, you know, not
1:49:36in a rush to get there and we can stave
1:49:37it. We want to stave it off sometimes
1:49:39and that it can be a screaming fight and
1:49:42partially denial can help us get there.
1:49:44I understand that. But still, it's on
1:49:46our side. It's going to happen. And
1:49:47since it's going to happen
1:49:50and there's that's non-negotiable,
1:49:53might as well go
1:49:55Well, I'm not going to rush to try and
1:49:58make more of it than there is. I want to
1:50:00try and spend the time I got as well as
1:50:03I can produce,
1:50:06succeed, achieve, whatever those things
1:50:08are, but also
1:50:10at a pace that
1:50:13I'm me that I that I that I like I like
1:50:15the dance to. I I like the give and the
1:50:17take. I like the reverb. I like the the
1:50:19the the cause and effect of how things
1:50:22are happening at this pace.
1:50:24How are we orienting ourselves now since
1:50:27time is speeding up so much faster with
1:50:29AI? I want to ask you this with AI and I
1:50:32mean this this is an objective question
1:50:35with AI with all these podcasts with all
1:50:38these wealth of information that people
1:50:40can get at all times and no one's
1:50:42listening to music anymore. They're
1:50:43listening to everybody talk about this
1:50:44and reading up in this and they're
1:50:45finding out the answers and in 10
1:50:47seconds that would have taken them 10
1:50:48days to get before.
1:50:51Do people sound smarter to you?
1:50:54No,
1:50:55>> me neither.
1:50:57It'll sound dumber.
1:51:00I do think so. We're talking about sign.
1:51:02If everything's significant, nothing's
1:51:03significant at all. I do think that I I
1:51:06I talked to people that feel like
1:51:07they're hyperly punching their
1:51:08information. Absolutely [ __ ] great.
1:51:12Just splashing out, but I'm going walk,
1:51:14dude. What What was the theme there? Did
1:51:16you have a bass guitar in your band? You
1:51:17need a bass guitar or at least somebody
1:51:19on percussion hold it down because I
1:51:20didn't hear the theme. I didn't hear the
1:51:21thread. It was digits.
1:51:24Where was the soul in that story? Which
1:51:27goes back to the quality with the
1:51:29quantity, the quantity of information.
1:51:31But can we have the soul in it to where
1:51:33ah I hear the rhyme. Ah, there's rhyme
1:51:35to that those digits. There's rhyme to
1:51:37those facts. Oh, I see how they add up.
1:51:40Oh, but what if you put them in this
1:51:41order? Ah, they add up to another thing.
1:51:43Or actually, they may add up to the same
1:51:44damn thing. Interesting. Now I've got a
1:51:46rhyme. Now there's a song. That happens
1:51:49when time's on your side and you're
1:51:51looking at it. And I still offer I open
1:51:52that up without complacency. Like start
1:51:55now. That doesn't mean time's on my
1:51:57side. Yeah, dude. Inchah.
1:51:59>> When it happens, it'll happen. No. Like,
1:52:03wake up.
1:52:05Clock's ticking. It's on your side now.
1:52:08Just move with it. Dance with it. Put
1:52:11some soul with the the facts.
1:52:16Matthew McConnA. Ladies and gentlemen,
1:52:17dude, you're great. You're so fantastic.
1:52:20Super fun talking to you. Do it for
1:52:22hours. Did we just do that for an hour
1:52:24or so?
1:52:24>> Uh, two in a bit.
1:52:26>> Did we really? Yeah. Again, it flies. It
1:52:28flies when you're having fun. Uh, new
1:52:30book,
1:52:32>> Points of Prayers.
1:52:34>> That's it. Some belief, not just belief
1:52:37in God, but think it's in short supply.
1:52:39And I think more of us need it. And if
1:52:41we don't have more of it, doubt's going
1:52:42to win. If doubt wins, we're all going
1:52:43to lose. And uh, we got stuff out there
1:52:46to believe in. I think people are
1:52:47looking for it. I know I am. And uh uh I
1:52:52think it's a something we need. I know
1:52:54something I need. And then I'm enjoying
1:52:56talking about it. I'm kind of saying
1:52:58this is sort of therapeutic, spiritual
1:53:00therapy for me cuz I'm getting to talk
1:53:03about it. I'm getting to talk with smart
1:53:04people about it. I'm getting questioned
1:53:05about it. I'm getting to repeat some of
1:53:07it. So it's even becoming mantric for
1:53:08me.
1:53:09>> Um and then I'm going to go put a lot of
1:53:10this to music when I hit the road. Got
1:53:12some great musicians coming out to join
1:53:14me on stage and they're playing scores
1:53:15behind some of my reads. It's going to
1:53:16be fun. Unreal.
1:53:17>> Yeah.
1:53:19thousand episodes. Thank you for joining
1:53:20me. It's a really special one.
1:53:22>> You're welcome. My pleasure.
1:53:26>> So,
1:53:27you're a Astrian connoisseur. Yeah.
1:53:30>> So, the originals, this is the first
1:53:34time that I know of that that they
1:53:36partnered.
1:53:37>> I think it was somebody based out of San
1:53:39Francisco and they said, "Hey, let's
1:53:40modernize it up just a hair." So, these
1:53:43were new. This was a new design.
1:53:48Um just a little waiter. This is the one
1:53:53original one I had. I called it the
1:53:54canoe.
1:53:56And that's the one that I managed on the
1:53:58road for about 3 years.
1:54:01>> When I think it was early 2000s,
1:54:04>> okay,
1:54:05>> it was me and my dog just traveling
1:54:07around. And if you and I are meeting a
1:54:09director or someone to work to meet, I'd
1:54:11be like,
1:54:12>> "What? Next Tuesday? Let me see. Man,
1:54:14I'm heading Albuquerque. I'm kind of
1:54:16moving this direction, too. flying to
1:54:17Albuquerque airport. I'll pick you up at
1:54:209:00 in the morning. And then how about
1:54:21if I'm driving that direction, I'll drop
1:54:23you off in Lincoln, Nebraska. How about,
1:54:25you know, 6:00 that night, you get the
1:54:266:00 out of Lincoln. We'd have our
1:54:28meeting on the road while I was pulling
1:54:30the Airstream.
1:54:31>> And every one of those meetings was a
1:54:32great meeting.
1:54:34>> It was like, yeah. And everybody was
1:54:35like, some people stayed the night and
1:54:37all my meetings. That's when we had a
1:54:38Blackberry, not not the phones you have
1:54:40now, but I was all over North America in
1:54:43this. And I took this out, built my own
1:54:46table in Louisiana with a carpenter.
1:54:49I got given a paddle. The reason it's
1:54:51called a canoe is I had this I stayed
1:54:53with the Indian Squamish Nation Indian
1:54:56Reservation in Vancouver working on a
1:54:58film too for the money.
1:55:01And on that reservation
1:55:03there was a paparazzi that had moved in
1:55:07>> and he was like, you know, hiding behind
1:55:08trees on in the in the trailer park. And
1:55:10it's the Squamish Nation in your
1:55:12reservation is their private property.
1:55:14The chief's name, no [ __ ] was Mike
1:55:16Hunt. Chief Mike Hunt went to and his
1:55:20brothers went to this guy and said, "You
1:55:22are not welcome here." He's like, "It's
1:55:24free contract. Stay away." Goes, "No,
1:55:25no, no. If you're disturbing someone in
1:55:27our tribe or making them any way
1:55:28uncomfortable, you're out." They kicked
1:55:30him out. The guy got the boot for just
1:55:33taking pictures. And I would they would
1:55:36catch I had ribe eyes, right? And they
1:55:38would catch their co- salmon in shopping
1:55:40carts down the river, set up the rocks
1:55:43where it would funnel the salmon into
1:55:44the shopping cart. They'd come up with
1:55:45the fresh salmon and I would trade them
1:55:48cooked ribe eyes for their salmon. It
1:55:50was our barter. And he gave me the
1:55:52paddle when I left. He said, "In our
1:55:55nation, as we travel the rivers, the ore
1:55:58>> is the the compass,
1:56:00>> the rudder for our canoe, and as you
1:56:03travel the rivers, highway rivers of
1:56:07North America, may this keep you in your
1:56:10powerful."
1:56:10>> Yeah,
1:56:11>> that's sick. Uh, well, you might not
1:56:13have noticed, but there's uh balloons
1:56:16because this is episode 1,000 today.
1:56:19>> Oh, all right.
1:56:19>> You are episode 1,000 on this show.
1:56:21>> Come on.
1:56:22>> Yeah.
1:56:22>> All right. Yeah,
1:56:23>> look at that.
1:56:24>> I know. But let's get going. Let's get
1:56:25started.
1:56:26>> Love it.
1:56:28>> Yeah, man.
1:56:30>> Thank you very much for tuning in.
1:56:33Usually I have something to sell you uh
1:56:36typically another episode uh at the end
1:56:39of episodes. Uh but that is 1,000
1:56:42episodes of Modern Wisdom, the end of
1:56:44the first millennium.
1:56:46And uh getting to do it again with
1:56:49Matthew here on this video wall thing is
1:56:52uh really cool and beautiful and it's
1:56:54very meaningful to me. And doing a
1:56:57thousand episodes of anything, doing a
1:56:58thousand of anything at all is a pretty
1:57:01big ask. Um if it wasn't for the fact
1:57:04that they were all numbered and I'd
1:57:05recorded them, I would have imagined
1:57:07that it was closer to 300 or 400. So
1:57:09I've just compressed down time over the
1:57:11last 7 and a half years. Uh, but I want
1:57:13to say thank you very much for uh
1:57:14following me, for supporting the show.
1:57:16Uh, obviously this has been a labor of
1:57:18love. So, as much as I whine and
1:57:20complain um about how tired I am, uh I
1:57:25wouldn't change it for anything else. I
1:57:26don't want to do anything at 2:23 p.m.
1:57:30on a Thursday in the middle of Texas,
1:57:32then sit down and have this
1:57:33conversation. So, thank you for joining
1:57:35me and uh here's to another thousand.
1:57:40All right.
1:57:42See you next time.

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