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Lila Rose Answers Every Abortion Argument — Transcript

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0:00Uh, don't you feel that your positions,
0:03your extreme positions, are just forcing
0:05women toward these more dangerous
0:07options? I think that, Sally, we should
0:09dare to have a better view for America
0:11and our women by saying we shouldn't
0:13believe and have to think that women
0:15need abortion and that we have to kill
0:17our children to achieve the dreams and
0:18the careers and families that we want. I
0:20think we can do better than that as a
0:22society. I think women deserve better. I
0:24think we should fight at the community
0:26level for programs that are positive,
0:28that help women if they're single
0:29mothers. We should improve the foster
0:30care system. We should improve the
0:32adoption system so that we can welcome
0:34children to this country instead of
0:36seeing them as a threat and killing them
0:37by the thousands each day.
0:39>> That's all valid. Can you answer that
0:40question though specifically, which is
0:41for the women who still do choose
0:43abortion, restricting their option just
0:45leads them to more dangerous choices.
0:47Before Roe v. Wade, 50% why are they
0:49Why are they in that position, Sally?
0:50Why are they in the position to feel
0:52like abortion is their only option?
0:53Could it be it's because of Boston want
0:55to promote them? Because a a boyfriend
0:57was going to leave them? A university
0:58professor said we're not going to be
0:59flexible with our class schedule? Let's
1:01look at the reasons and let's address
1:03those reasons, but let's not turn to
1:04killing, dismembering, poisoning. Let's
1:06not turn to killing our littlest
1:08Americans as a solution to these
1:09problems. I don't think abortion should
1:11ever be illegal now.
1:12>> So, you support abortion in any case at
1:13any time in pregnancy, legally?
1:17Me, personally? From a your position
1:19tonight, from a legal standpoint.
1:21>> Your position in this debate, whether
1:22you consider that a personal position or
1:24the one you're portraying.
1:25>> know that that's relevant. Well, that's
1:27what we're debating here. It's pretty
1:28It's pretty relevant.
1:29>> My position is I don't think the
1:31government should be able to force you
1:32to have a kid that you don't want to
1:33have. So, you don't think abortion
1:34should ever be illegal? You can just say
1:35it if that's your position.
1:36>> That's not necessarily what I'm saying.
1:38What are you saying?
1:39Again, my personal opinion is different
1:41than my stance.
1:42>> in this debate?
1:44I feel like I've answered that
1:46ad nauseam. Wait, what is it? Which is
1:48the government should not be able to
1:50compel you to have a kid that you don't
1:51want.
1:52>> should never restrict abortion. That's
1:54what you're saying.
1:54>> Yeah.
1:54>> Okay, so that means any point in
1:55pregnancy, any age of baby, any reason,
1:57government should not restrict it. I
1:59think I think medical providers should
2:01be able to restrict it. As I said, I
2:03think at a certain point in a pregnancy
2:05But if you're an abortionist making
2:05$10,000 on a late-term abortion, you're
2:07not going to be like, "Sorry, I don't
2:08want your $10,000 today."
2:11Chas isn't how it works. It is how it
2:13works. Cesare Santangelo here in DC,
2:15he's making thousands of dollars a pop
2:17on abortions in the second trimester.
2:19These are real doctors.
2:21>> Listen.
2:22OBGYNs are respected medical
2:24professionals. They're not in this for
2:27the money. See, abortionists are not in
2:29it for the money.
2:31When you say abortionist, what do you
2:33What's an abortionist? If you've got
2:35something to say, raise your hand and
2:37>> I have lots to say, actually. A ton to
2:39say, actually. I really feel like your
2:41views, you just want to legislate evil.
2:44That's really how it feels when I hear
2:45you speak, especially when you're
2:47talking about a 10-year-old girl who was
2:49raped. I'm sorry. And um
2:52to hear you say that, you know, they
2:54should just have it anyway is
2:55disgusting. I really think you're a
2:57traitor to your own and I will never be
3:00able to agree with you. There's nothing
3:02you could justify to say that she should
3:03have to carry it to bury it. There is
3:06nothing you could possibly say to
3:08justify that level of lack [applause] of
3:11empathy. And that's the problem I feel
3:13like in this country at the moment. We
3:15were founded on the lack of empathy and
3:16we've just kept up with that tradition.
3:18If if
3:19>> You have no empathy.
3:20>> Uh, abortion is devastating for to
3:22women's mental health. No one talks
3:24about that. The year after a woman has
3:26an abortion
3:26>> really like the The year after a woman
3:28to have the child What kind of trauma is
3:30that? The trauma is from the rape. The
3:32trauma is from the rape. The child is an
3:33innocent party there. The child is
3:35important. We don't take out It's not
3:36there. We we should not take out
3:38generational sin on a child to say
3:40there's generational sin and that dad
3:42was an abuser so the child should be
3:43killed and at this rate That's not fair
3:45to the child. We're talking about rights
3:46and he just said we've been taken a
3:48right has been taken away from us. What
3:51is now?
3:51>> I want to address that because our
3:53fundamental human right that we all
3:54share in this room is life. It's the
3:56first human right. Laws are meant to
3:58protect the weak in a society. Who's the
4:00weakest? Who's the weakest in a society?
4:02A child. They don't have a voice. They
4:04can't speak. A child in the room or a
4:07poor child would be killed that way And
4:09and a child with disabilities. Listen,
4:11whether you live 10 minutes or 10 years
4:14or 100 years, you're a human life and
4:16you have the right to not be killed.
4:18There's a difference between a human and
4:20and people and persons, right?
4:21>> Well, it sounds like you believe there's
4:23a difference. Yeah. So, you think that
4:24some humans are not persons?
4:26Um yeah, like a fetus is not a person,
4:29yeah. Are there any other humans that
4:30aren't persons in your view?
4:32I think maybe if they're dead. There's a
4:34boy named Baby Jackson, only had a
4:35brainstem, lived to be 5 years old. His
4:38parents were saying he absolutely
4:39communicates with us. He's disabled.
4:41>> about Baby Jackson. He would have
4:42responded to stimuli, shine the light in
4:44his face, his eyes would respond, but
4:45there was no sort of conscious happening
4:47there. I I think the disease was like
4:48anencephaly or something where his
4:50Hydrocephaly.
4:50>> Yeah. Hydrocephaly where his brain was
4:52like water or whatever. So, I think it's
4:53pretty clear to say that he didn't have
4:55a conscious brain.
4:56>> to kill Baby Jackson? You're saying he's
4:58not a person and if his parents wanted
5:00to off him at age 5, it would have been
5:02okay cuz he's missing part of his brain
5:03in your view.
5:04>> Um if he was not conscious,
5:06he was not a person, so yes. So, it
5:09would be okay in your view to to kill
5:10Baby Jackson. Because he's not a person,
5:12right?
5:12>> You're saying that. I think he's a
5:13person. You're saying he's not a person.
5:15Do you believe that doctors and women
5:17are killing babies after they're born?
5:20That's what Donald Trump ran on.
5:21>> Actually, we've done investigative
5:23reporting at Live Action where
5:24abortionists
5:25>> I think it's deeply dishonest. I think
5:27it's deeply dishonest. What you and
5:29James O'Keefe do is deeply dishonest and
5:32you should be ashamed of what James
5:34O'Keefe does. It is deeply dishonest.
5:37>> We've done, separate from James O'Keefe,
5:39we've done investigative reporting of
5:41late-term abortion clinics That's not
5:43investigative reporting.
5:44>> Can I Can I share with you? Well, where
5:46the staffers told us
5:48that sometimes the baby is born alive in
5:51these abortions that they do and they
5:54either let the baby suffocate to death
5:57or they will put the baby in a jar of
5:59liquid to drown. We actually have that
6:00on tape and I recommend you go check it
6:02out. So, infanticide absolutely happens
6:05in late-term abortion facilities.
6:06>> are born severely
6:09compromised and deformed and are
6:11suffering
6:13And they don't They told you you should
6:14be able to kill them? Is that what
6:15you're saying?
6:16>> kill them. I believe you have a very
6:18extreme stance wanting to make abortion
6:20completely illegal
6:21um and the topic of uh medically
6:23necessary abortions and what constitutes
6:26medically necessary abortion as well as
6:27how that decision is made. Is it made
6:29with the mother and and the doctor and
6:31etc. etc. Um but would you
6:35say, because you also stated that um sex
6:38outside of marriage and for with the
6:40purpose
6:41of recreation or not intending to have a
6:44child or carry it to term, would you, if
6:46you could legislate it, would you make
6:49sex outside of marriage illegal? No, of
6:52course not. Because I think people have
6:54the freedom to do things that yeah, are
6:56morally wrong and not every moral wrong
6:58should be illegal. But moral wrongs that
7:00should be illegal have to do with
7:01fundamental human rights like your right
7:03to live. You can't have any enjoy any
7:05other human right like freedom of
7:06religion or freedom of speech if you're
7:08not alive and you're not protected from
7:09lethal violence against you, which is
7:11the case of abortion. It's lethal
7:12violence against a child. And and you
7:15referenced uh medical you you used the
7:17term medically necessary, I think,
7:18abortion and the reality is abortion is
7:20not medically necessary and that's not
7:22my opinion. That's thousands of medical
7:24experts who say that both in the United
7:26States and globally and I've worked with
7:28pro-life OBGYNs and we work with them
7:30regularly at Live Action who say that
7:32you can love them both in a medical
7:34setting and care for both mother and
7:35baby. In very rare emergency situations,
7:38you may need to do an an early delivery,
7:40but the goal is not to destroy the baby
7:42and kill the baby. The goal is
7:43ultimately to save both lives and that's
7:46how I think our health care system
7:47should run. I think what's extreme I
7:49think what's extreme is the fact that we
7:51are permitting the murdering of
7:53children, direct and intentional
7:54dismemberment and starving to death of
7:56unborn human beings. Destiny, what if I
7:58have amnesia and I don't remember
8:00anything? I'm like a
8:11personhood and when I emerge from my
8:13coma, I am like a brand new baby. Would
8:15it have been okay during that coma to
8:17kill me?
8:18Oof, I would have to think a lot about
8:20that question.
8:20>> Where do you get your moral foundation
8:22from? Is there absolute morality? Well,
8:24personally, no. I'm a anti-realist.
8:26>> So, would you say that in some cases
8:27rape could be fine? I mean Is rape
8:30always wrong?
8:31>> I
8:32Yes. Wait, hold on. Is it?
8:34>> Yes. I
8:34>> That sounds like No, wait. Wait. When I
8:36When I When I When I say rape, I have my
8:38own morality and and but then I also
8:40acknowledge that other people make
8:41>> Sounds like you're saying in your view
8:43it would be wrong for you to rape
8:44someone. Would it be wrong for someone
8:45else to rape someone?
8:46>> kill anyone that rapes anyone. That's my
8:47>> But whoa, whoa, what you just said,
8:49morals are not absolute. Why would it be
8:51wrong for someone else who thinks that
8:52rape is okay to rape someone?
8:53>> The The idea is from their frame of I
8:55can't make the justification, right?
8:56Because, you know, they have different
8:56morality and like they have different
8:58So, why would you judge them by killing
9:00Because well, I think my morals are
9:01better. So, you do think there's moral
9:02hierarchy. Well, I think my morals
9:03should be superior, right?
9:04>> like you think that there is an
9:05objective order to the world.
9:07>> This is a
9:08I haven't thought this deep about it,
9:09you know. I think you believe in in a
9:11moral order and you believe in some
9:13moral absolutes, but you just don't want
9:14to agree that it's morally wrong to kill
9:17a baby in the womb.
9:18You think that's the [music] case? Um
9:20Like you're saying rape is wrong, but
9:21abortion is okay. Yeah, I mean I can be
9:23convinced of that, yeah. I mean, the the
9:25pro-life case is very simple. It's
9:26always wrong to kill an innocent human
9:28being.
9:28>> [music]
9:28>> And that's what abortion is by
9:30definition and that's why we oppose it.
9:33I get to choose what happens to my body
9:36because I didn't get to make that choice
9:38with that assault. I didn't get to make
9:40that choice with that rape, but I do get
9:42to make the choice with what happens
9:44with that fertilized egg and that is a
9:47problem. And when I am sitting here with
9:49a 10-year-old child who didn't have a
9:52choice about what happened to her body
9:55to then say, "You must you must carry
9:59that child until you give birth, that is
10:03that is unconscionable.
10:05>> respond with a couple things that are
10:06really important, I think. First of all,
10:07Rebecca Kiessling, my friend who was
10:09conceived in Her mother tried to have an
10:10abortion. It was illegal and she
10:12couldn't access one. So, she ended up
10:14placing Rebecca for adoption and Rebecca
10:15goes around and says, "What about my
10:17right to life?" And she ended up meeting
10:19with her mother years later and her
10:20mother said, "I'm actually glad I wasn't
10:22able to end your life."
10:24>> And I'm glad I'm glad that Rebecca's
10:26mother
10:26>> just finish.
10:27One of the key things that we need to be
10:29we need to acknowledge is that abortion
10:30isn't something that's going to heal a
10:32Abortion If I can just finish. If I can
10:34just finish.
10:35>> does abortion does No, actually abortion
10:38I'm I'm going to I'd love to respond to
10:40you. I'd love to just have a moment.
10:42Abortion can add trauma. It's another
10:44act of violence.
10:45>> does not add trauma. There's no evidence
10:48that abortion adds trauma.
10:49>> respond. In the state of California,
10:52200,000 Medicaid patients, women,
10:55150%
10:57more likely to commit suicide for those
10:59that had an abortion If I may just
11:01finish. Then those that gave birth.
11:03>> is no psychological evidence. There is
11:06no There is no There is no There is no
11:08There is no There is no There is
11:10>> is profoundly traumatizing. So, you say
11:12you don't believe it's a child in the
11:13womb. What is it if it's not a child?
11:16I I I think depending on what what point
11:20it's at, it it is a it's cells. What
11:23kind of cells? What kind of cells?
11:27I
11:28Is this a gotcha question? I mean,
11:29>> No, it's a very sincere question. You're
11:31saying abortion is okay.
11:32>> I I I would feel like this would be a
11:34more authentic debate if Republicans
11:37wanted to do anything to help children
11:39or to help that we have the worst
11:41maternal We have the worst maternal
11:44>> I are made of cells, right?
11:46What is the life in the womb? Is it a
11:48life, would you say?
11:50The
11:51Lila, you know as well as I do for a
11:53long time
11:55it is not viable outside of a woman. So,
11:58it is not You can't say that you know
12:02I'm just saying I get that this is what
12:04you guys always say. Like it's a fully
12:06formed viable person that could live
12:08outside the womb and that is not the
12:10case. That's not what I'm saying. I'm
12:12asking you, is a human less valuable
12:15because they are less developed or
12:17because they are dependent or small?
12:19Does that make them less valuable? I
12:21don't believe that it's a human being If
12:24they're not I believe if it is not
12:26viable outside the the woman's womb, the
12:29woman should have the choice over her
12:31own body. She's not like a host
12:34organism.
12:35>> with a male
12:38unborn child,
12:40does the woman have a penis?
12:43I'm sorry. Say that one more time.
12:44>> is pregnant with a male unborn child,
12:47does the woman have male DNA and
12:49eventually does the woman have a penis?
12:52Okay. Now you're saying it's her body.
12:55If she's pregnant with a male fetus,
12:57Yes. does who have a penis? I'm sorry.
13:00>> Is that Does I'm sorry. I'm a lesbian.
13:02When someone says penis, I just stop
13:03listening.
13:04>> baby in the room the woman's body?
13:08I don't think so. Right?
13:09>> I'm sorry. Wait, what are you asking?
13:11Okay. I mean, one of the things you are
13:13an expert at
13:15is having visited clinics,
13:17seeing things that go on in clinics that
13:19perform abortions
13:20that are
13:22that are inappropriate.
13:24Are you at all aware of what goes on in
13:27in pregnancy counseling centers
13:30of similar nature?
13:32Because if you're not, I'll tell you.
13:34Well, I'm privileged to have volunteered
13:36at many pregnancy resource centers over
13:37the years.
13:39financially
13:41Okay.
13:43I'm privileged to have volunteered, Ms.
13:44Kiessling, at many pregnancy resource
13:46centers over the years. Uh-huh. My
13:48husband and I are blessed to be able to
13:49financially support pregnancy resource
13:51centers. We help fundraise for pregnancy
13:54resource centers. I'm extremely proud of
13:56the work that is done. These are
13:57nonprofits that don't receive any
13:58government funds. They are run without
14:00any financial incentive for the people
14:02running them. It's completely charitable
14:04work. I did not say they were perfect,
14:06Ms. Kiessling. No human is perfect and
14:08no organization is perfect.
14:09>> What do you know about what goes on? I
14:11can tell you and then maybe you can go
14:13and you can investigate them.
14:15What about the clinics
14:16>> Let Let's say this. At pregnancy
14:18resource centers, there are children
14:20that are not being dismembered alive as
14:22they are at abortion clinics.
14:24At pregnancy resource centers, there are
14:25resources being offered pregnant mothers
14:28that are not being offered at Planned
14:29Parenthood and abortion clinics across
14:31the country. And at pregnancy resource
14:33centers, there's free and confidential
14:35support and adoption referrals that are
14:37being offered that are not being done at
14:38Planned Parenthood
14:42And by the way, Planned Parenthood One
14:44more thing. Planned Parenthood has been
14:45receiving until just a 2 months ago,
14:47thank goodness. They've been receiving
14:49$500 million a year in taxpayer money to
14:52do that.
14:54How are you different from a Muslim
14:55activist trying to spread Sharia law?
14:58I'm very different from that because You
15:00want to use your religious convictions
15:01to inform what's secular
15:03>> Because I think we can reason together
15:06and say that regardless of your beliefs
15:08about divine revelation, like
15:11Muhammad receiving divine revelation
15:13from somebody, it's an it's an act of
15:14faith. And there's a a lot of Sharia law
15:16that's built on divine revelation. I
15:18think on a natural level, we can I
15:20acknowledge that it's wrong to kill
15:22human beings. I think we could reason
15:23together even without any religious
15:25texts. We could reason together and say,
15:26"Yeah, it's wrong to kill human beings."
15:29And even before there was divine
15:30revelation, um there have been cultures
15:33and societies that have prohibited
15:34murder. So, you don't need divine
15:36revelation to prohibit murder, but I do
15:39think divine revelation helps cement the
15:41reality that human life is sacred. I
15:43mean, Jesus Christ didn't come into the
15:45world at 13 to 14 weeks when his brain
15:47was a certain level of development. He
15:49came into the world as a single-cell
15:51embryo. And that I think is very, you
15:54know, very important. Yeah, but you're
15:56not here to change your mind, though.
15:57And you won't change your mind.
15:58>> Well, if someone shows me an argument
15:59that is is more compelling.
16:01>> that simple cuz you have this whole
16:02organization here. You have financial
16:04backing. Like you're not ever changing
16:05your mind on this. So, that
16:06>> If someone showed me that it is actually
16:08untrue that abortion takes an innocent
16:09human life.
16:11But yeah, you're right.
16:13And then And then the next thing I want
16:15to say is that you're not necessarily
16:16pro-life. I guess you're more pro-human
16:17life or whatever. That's the thing you
16:19care about, which I don't know
16:20necessarily what's the distinction
16:21between being pro-human life and being
16:24pro like all lives
16:25Well, that's because I think human life
16:28has more value than animal life.
16:31>> Why? Do you think that chickens have as
16:33much value as a human? Yeah. Why Why
16:35would Why would they have less value as
16:36humans? I am never going to agree with
16:38you that the government should control
16:40women's bodies. I'm just not. We just
16:42don't We just don't agree on this issue.
16:44Should the government control parents of
16:46newborns' bodies to ensure that parents
16:49of newborns can't kill their newborn?
16:52Well,
16:54again, we stop being able to have honest
16:56discussions when Donald Trump ran on
16:59repeatedly saying that Democrats want
17:01you to be able to kill your baby after
17:03it's born and that people routinely
17:05killed their baby after it's born. It
17:07How can you have an honest conversation?
17:09How can you have an honest conversation?
17:11Do you think that because Baby Jax is
17:13missing most of his brain and doesn't
17:15have consciousness in your view, he
17:17should not have a right to life? Uh uh
17:19right now, if the parents want to have
17:20that child and have that experience
17:22>> a right? If the parents wanted to
17:23execute him, do they have the right to
17:25do that? I think I think they could have
17:26terminated that pregnancy at any point
17:27in time. Yes. But as a 1-year-old or
17:282-year-old, does Baby Jax have the right
17:30to live or can he be executed?
17:32>> you can make the argument that if
17:33they've already committed to having it,
17:34they can't change their mind at that
17:35point, but
17:36>> He doesn't have consciousness. That's
17:37your definition of human
17:39value. Are you asking me the moral
17:40answer or the legal answer?
17:41>> answer, yes.
17:42>> answer is if you're I don't think you
17:43can create a world where you're giving
17:44birth to some children and then changing
17:46your mind a year or two later.
17:48>> your legal position hinges on
17:49consciousness as the standard for human
17:52value under the law. Baby Jax, according
17:54to your own statement, does not have
17:56human consciousness. Why would it be
17:57wrong to take his life at 2 or 3 years
17:59old?
17:59>> So, my legal position maximizes the
18:01right of a woman to do what she will
18:02with her body because the most important
18:04part of my legal position is I'm trying
18:05to counterbalance the potential mishap
18:08of killing a human that might be a mind
18:10or a person before 20 weeks, whenever I
18:11decide whatever the science says on
18:13that. Um and I'm trying to balance that
18:14against the mother's right to have an
18:16autonomy to her body, the right to her
18:17body cannot be invaded.
18:19>> as you mentioned yourself, it is a big
18:21responsibility to take care of a child
18:22with disabilities at 2 or 3. But
18:25completely different than having to give
18:26your body to it. And that balance is
18:28that balance is gone once the child is
18:29born. Let's say Baby Jax at let's say 6
18:31months old. Baby Jax at 6 months old was
18:33completely 100% dependent on the bodies
18:36of his parents
18:37>> He was not. including the breasts of his
18:39mother if they if if he was
18:40breastfeeding.
18:41>> No, he was not. Yes, he was.
18:42>> He wasn't living inside the body of
18:44anyone.
18:44>> Jax feed himself? No, but he can be fed.
18:46He doesn't have to have access to
18:48>> Baby Jax? Is it a robot?
18:49>> be the dad. It could be the mom. It
18:50could be the sibling.
18:53I mean, in that case, we're using our
18:54body for everything. But that's become
18:56so reductively absurd that it doesn't
18:57really make sense anymore.
18:58>> absurd. This is why parents can go to
19:00jail for parental neglect if they don't
19:02use their bodies to care for their
19:03children.
19:04>> The violent images that aren't being
19:05shown are babies riddled with assault
19:08rifle bullets or I'm opposed to that,
19:11Brenda. I I don't know if you know
19:12already think of my position, but I
19:14think that it's horrific the violence
19:17against schoolchildren and children in
19:19our country and what guns are used for.
19:20I think it is horrific. It's
19:22mind-numbingly horrific. So, we agree on
19:24that. I'm talking about the baby that
19:27you just said you were okay with being
19:29killed in the second trimester as long
19:32as its body is pierced with a needle and
19:35its heart is injected with a substance
19:36that gives us a heart attack and then
19:38it's okay to dismember that baby and
19:39remove the baby from the mother. I'm
19:40trying to understand. I'm trying to
19:42understand how you're okay with that. We
19:44have more babies from poorer
19:46communities. So, if we were to ban
19:47abortion, we would essentially have a
19:49rise of those types of communities. How
19:51would we provide for the children once
19:53they're born?
19:53>> One obvious thing to me is the fact that
19:56we give $700
19:58to Planned Parenthood, which is the
19:59biggest abortion chain. I'd redirect all
20:02that money over to more free health
20:04care, make birth free, support families
20:06choosing life. Most of the pro-life
20:08movement is focused on providing care
20:09for lower-income communities. There are
20:12infrastructures that exist. I think we
20:14need more.
20:15>> Cuz my major fear is that if we continue
20:17ban abortion and we don't have the
20:19system already in place, it's only going
20:21to get worse for the kids before it gets
20:22better. Yeah, well, the worst thing you
20:24can do to a kid is kill the kid. It's
20:26never okay to kill that child, delete
20:28that child, to stop them from facing
20:30struggles. We should focus on making
20:31life better for that child. So, even in
20:34cases of rape and incest, you the woman
20:36should be for or child should be forced
20:38to carry the child like in Handmaid's
20:40Tale?
20:41The child has a right to life regardless
20:43of how they're conceived. If a woman is
20:46a victim of sexual assault or abuse, she
20:49needs care and support. The rapist
20:50should be behind jail bars. There needs
20:52to be justice, but we're not going to
20:54solve the crime of rape.
20:55>> So, the rapist gets to choose the mother
20:57of his child. No, what the rapist should
20:58do is go in jail for life. That's what
21:00the rapist should do. But, in this
21:02country, we don't even give the rapist
21:04the death penalty. Did you know that?
21:05It's against federal law. Why should the
21:07child be given the death penalty for the
21:08crimes of his or her father? If you have
21:11a burning building and you can save the
21:12occupants in one room. I know you love
21:14this one.
21:14>> I love this one. One room [laughter]
21:16has a baby born 2 weeks ago and the
21:19other has a morula. And for those not
21:21familiar, that's just a fertilized egg,
21:22basically as late as it gets before it
21:24becomes like a blastocyst. So, it's had
21:25about four cell divisions. Which one are
21:27you saving? I would absolutely try to
21:29save both. I can't It's I know I can't.
21:32It's It's like asking me It's really
21:33like asking me if you have your son in
21:35one room and your other son in the
21:36other, who do you save? And I It's It's
21:38It's a It's It's a It sucks, right? Cuz
21:40they're both equal in dignity and I
21:42don't know what I, you know, it it I
21:44don't know what I would do in that
21:45emergency situation. But, what I would
21:47do in that emergency situation doesn't
21:49mean that one son is less valuable than
21:50the other or the embryo is less valuable
21:52than the baby, etc. etc. etc.
21:54>> Well, this is the issue. It's It's why
21:55they It's kind of a It's not silly.
21:57>> In some ways a useless hypothetical.
21:58Although, I I appreciate it. So, your
22:01answer probably wouldn't be I stand
22:03there stunned and don't pick, right? You
22:04would probably do something. Let's say
22:06you have two hypothetical children. You
22:09and your husband have two hypothetical
22:10children. One is a little older than the
22:12other, of course. They're not twins.
22:14You have to pick one. Who do you pick?
22:16Mhm.
22:17Who do you pick?
22:18My answer would probably be if one's a
22:20morula and one's
22:22>> They're both born, Kyla.
22:24Who would you pick?
22:25Uh I have two born children. I would
22:27probably end up unfortunately picking
22:29the one I happen to like the most, which
22:30is tragic. It's awful. Well, before you
22:32laugh, hold on. So, BEFORE YOU LAUGH, SO
22:33SO SO Wait wait wait wait wait wait Wait
22:35wait wait wait What question am I not
22:36answering? I take that seriously.
22:38Are you aware of a pregnancy counseling
22:41centers that are opposed to abortion who
22:45do anything inappropriate in their
22:49clinics? For example, I will give you an
22:51example. Tell a woman that her weeks of
22:54pregnancy
22:55are further along
22:58than would be eligible for her
23:00to get an abortion.
23:02Okay.
23:04Answer.
23:05May May I answer? You can answer. Okay.
23:07I mean, I thank you for asking the
23:09question directly. I really appreciate
23:10that. So,
23:11uh yes, there are
23:12I am sure I am sure that in the world of
23:15the nonprofit space of pregnancy
23:17resource centers, there have been
23:18mistakes that have been made because
23:20that is that is human. Yeah, I'm sure
23:22there are mistakes that have been made.
23:23But, again, these are resource centers
23:25that are giving away hundreds of
23:26millions of dollars in free support to
23:28low-income women. That's who you're
23:30fighting against, Mr. Speaker.
23:32What would it take to change your mind
23:33on this topic?
23:36It would take to prove that abortion
23:38does not take an innocent human life.
23:40What would it take
23:40>> because it's that's what it's designed
23:42to do. What would it take to prove to
23:44you that um a life doesn't begin at the
23:47very moment of conception or that the
23:48mind is required or is there anything
23:50that could move you on any of this?
23:51>> I mean, if the science conclusively
23:53said, "Oh, we were all wrong. The
23:54science doesn't show that life begins at
23:57sperm-egg fusion when a single-cell
23:59embryo comes into existence and somehow
24:01that was somehow completely wrong for,
24:04you know, decades, hundreds of years
24:05even now, then I'd look at that and say,
24:07"Wow, that's such an interesting thing
24:09that that's wrong." And then we would
24:10look at well, when does life begin?
24:11You're saying that the woman's the baby
24:14in the woman's body is her body. So, if
24:16a woman is pregnant with a male baby,
24:18is the woman now part male because she
24:20has a male body parts and male DNA in
24:22her? Is that her body?
24:26No, right? You can just say no. I'm
24:27completely I UCLA must teach better
24:30science than USC cuz I don't really know
24:31what the you're talking about. I have to
24:33be honest. [laughter]
24:34>> Well, I If you don't If you don't If you
24:35don't acknowledge that human life begins
24:37before birth, then I can see
24:38>> I don't think human life begins at
24:40conce- I mean, When does human Does it
24:42begin when the male has an orgasm? Is
24:44that what you guys think? When does
24:45human life begin in your view?
24:49Okay.
24:51Listen, we can have philosophical
24:52debates all day long.
24:54>> not I'm actually asking from a Does a
24:56woman have choice over her own body or
24:59not?
25:00>> I hear what you're saying. I agree that
25:02we have bodily autonomy. I have the
25:04right to not someone to come and hit me,
25:06hurt me, etc. But, there's a very unique
25:08relationship when a woman is pregnant
25:10with another human life, with another
25:12body. And that's her son or her
25:14daughter. Whether she wanted to get
25:16pregnant, intended to get pregnant, when
25:18she's pregnant, there's that unique
25:19relationship that springs into existence
25:21with the existence of that new human
25:22life. And a few times it's been said
25:24today, "Well, the science doesn't
25:25matter. We're just having my my opinion,
25:27my personal story." The science does
25:28matter a lot cuz science can help tell
25:31us what is real and what is not real.
25:33And science does tell us when human life
25:35begins and it doesn't magically begin at
25:37birth.
25:38Human life begins before birth and human
25:40life begins at the moment of
25:41fertilization. And so, well, I'm all for
25:43bodily autonomy. I believe that our
25:45bodily autonomy as women ends where
25:48another human being's life begins. And
25:50when I'm pregnant, there's another body
25:52inside my body and they deserve the
25:54right to live. And yes, that's going to
25:56mean maybe a few months of me trying to
25:58hopefully take care of my body cuz it's
26:00feeding that body and then delivering
26:02that child. And if I feel I can't
26:03parent, then there's other options. But,
26:05I still have a responsibility not to
26:07kill that child via an abortion. Because
26:10it's clear you when you're pregnant,
26:11you're pregnant with something. What are
26:12you pregnant with?
26:14Yeah, a spirit. Um So, now it's a
26:16spirit? Well, these are again, like I
26:19really But, are you capable of killing a
26:21spirit then?
26:22I believe that energy moves. I don't
26:24think you can kill a spirit.
26:25>> When you're pregnant, what are you
26:27pregnant with? Biologically speaking.
26:31I am going to honestly veto this
26:35question.
26:35>> Do you place
26:38I guess the baby's life higher than a
26:41woman's. In the case of like Adriana
26:43Smith in Georgia where there was
26:44abortion bans and they used her as an
26:47incubator even though the baby was what,
26:496 weeks?
26:50What are What is your stance on that?
26:53So, no, the the baby's life does not
26:55take priority to the mother's life. I
26:57think this is something that it gets
26:58lost sometimes in these debates. I think
27:00they're equal in value and they should
27:03both be treated as patients in a medical
27:04setting. And in the case of Adriana, she
27:07was deceased and they were using her
27:10body to continue to shepherd that baby
27:12until the baby had the opportunity to be
27:14delivered. And then the transfer of care
27:17could go to another adult to take care
27:19of that infant. I think that's a
27:20wonderful thing. I mean, Chance is now
27:22eight, I think, weeks old and he's
27:24thriving. Um he's he's born. He's He's
27:27healthy. I'm so glad he's here. And to
27:30say that he should have been killed
27:32because his mother was also killed um in
27:34that tragic accident, I think is is
27:36completely wrong and unfair to Chase.
27:38Your entire position is based on the
27:41develop- is based on age. It's basically
27:43the development, the maturity.
27:46It's not
27:46>> of the of the child. [laughter] Age is
27:47development. Age, Destiny. It could
27:49develop earlier or later, I guess,
27:50right?
27:51>> A development is age. Age is a marker of
27:53development. Okay?
27:53>> It can be, sure.
27:54>> So, so your whole argument is that if
27:57the development hasn't happened yet,
27:59then therefore they're not a human life
28:01worthy of protection.
28:02>> A person, yeah. A person, okay? So, are
28:04you saying that toddlers, because
28:06they're less developed than an
28:09adolescent, should have fewer should
28:12should not have the same rights as an
28:13adolescent?
28:16Yes. You agree with the same thing.
28:18>> Fundamental Hold on. To be clear, they
28:19have different human Hold on. Okay, now
28:20you're qualifying more, but the point of
28:21the thing is you said in your opening
28:23statement, you literally said children
28:25need even more protection. They don't
28:27have the same rights. Do they A child
28:28can't sign a contract. A child can't buy
28:30a house. A 2-year-old can't go to high
28:31school. Do they have the same human
28:33rights? What?
28:34No. So, you you keep saying You keep
28:37saying we need abortion. This is your
28:39argument. We need abortion because women
28:40are dying without it.
28:42I We work with thousands of medical
28:44professionals through A Plag. It's the
28:46Association of American Pro-Life
28:48Obstetricians and Gynecologists and they
28:50say that it is not medically necessary
28:53to end human lives in the womb for
28:54medical treatment. You can love both the
28:56baby and the mother. You can care for
28:57both. The Dublin Declaration, which is
29:00thousands of medical professionals
29:01saying you can care for them both. This
29:02is what we used to do is see them both
29:05as patients. You don't have to kill the
29:06baby to help the mother. You can care
29:08for both. That What do you think about
29:10that? Do you think that would be a good
29:11idea if that was possible?
29:12To not kill the baby to save the life of
29:14the mother to instead care for them
29:15both? Would you support that?
29:17>> Okay. Layla, we just fundamentally
29:19disagree. I do not believe
29:22>> though?
29:22>> I do not believe that women should be
29:24pod people that that belong to the
29:26government who should control her
29:29decisions about her body, her medical
29:32decisions. I don't think the government
29:34should be in our lives like that. Okay,
29:36so we're talking right now about health
29:38care and I'm saying doctors can care for
29:40both mom and baby, pregnant mom and and
29:42baby that's unborn. If they can care for
29:44both, would you say that that would be
29:45better than killing baby? If they can if
29:47there's a medical emergency a medical
29:48situation to try to their best to care
29:50for both would you support that? I I'm
29:52sorry. I'm not I'm I'm not getting what
29:54you're asking. Should what? Okay, so
29:57there are thousands of medical
29:58professionals who say that abortion is
30:01not medically necessary. You don't need
30:02to kill the baby. Like a lot of abortion
30:04doctors say, "Well, we just have to have
30:06an abortion because that's somehow going
30:07to help the mother." You can care for
30:09both mom and baby. If that was the case,
30:12which thousands of medical professionals
30:13say it was it is, do you support caring
30:17for both mom and baby instead of taking
30:19the life of the baby?
30:19>> If the mother doesn't want to have the
30:22child, you're asking
30:24Well, in theoretically in in the cases
30:26you're you're you're referencing, you're
30:27saying she needs the abortion medically,
30:30right? Is that what you're talking
30:31about? She's bleeding out. There are
30:33many states, yes, where it is restricted
30:36where women are bleeding out, where
30:37women are going into sepsis, where women
30:39are not able to get care.
30:41Do you
30:43Do you support women's choice at all?
30:45>> Not to kill your baby, no.
30:47Okay.
30:48But in everything else, you support a
30:49woman's right to choose the right to
30:51choose anything, but just not that.
30:53>> Well, I don't think women should run
30:54people over with their cars, they
30:56shouldn't kill their babies. Yes,
30:57because that's exactly the same as
30:59>> Women shouldn't go
31:00you know drive drunk. I mean, there's a
31:02lot of things that both Yes, those are
31:03all exactly the same as choosing not to
31:06have a child because oh my god.
31:08>> Well, when you're pregnant, you already
31:09have a child.
31:10Okay.
31:11Are we going to the next portion yet?
31:14You're saying it's better for a foster
31:16care child to not exist.
31:18To not to not be alive. To be to it's
31:20better for them to be killed. Well, I am
31:22a pro reproductive rights activist, so
31:25yes. So, you you're saying that a child
31:29in foster care, it's better for them to
31:31be dead.
31:32Not after they're already alive. Not
31:34[laughter] after they're out of the
31:35womb. In order to abort someone, they
31:37have to be alive.
31:38Otherwise, you wouldn't need to abort
31:39them. DRUG ADDICTION, SEX WORK,
31:41EVERYTHING like that. Yes, I'm a proud
31:43pro-hope. That is exactly what I do. But
31:45you're telling me how my child would
31:47feel. And what gives you the right? What
31:50gives you the right? What gives you the
31:52right?
31:53>> I would love to respond to you. I would
31:54love to respond to you. I think yes,
31:56your your child had a right to life. And
31:58I would say that there are I wish there
32:00were more people helping you at the
32:01time. It sounds like you were in a
32:02really rough time in your life. And I
32:04think that you mattered, that baby
32:06mattered, and you both deserve more
32:08help. That's what I would say.
32:09>> There's a failure rate even with
32:10sterilization. There is a failure rate,
32:12but like perfect use failure rate is
32:13like 1%. Um, real world failure rate is
32:16like 10%.
32:17>> sex, so why is there having regular
32:18promiscuous sex or regular sex even with
32:19one partner that you don't want to have
32:20a kid with, eventually there's going to
32:22be you know, for many there will be a
32:24failure. For many when you know, hold
32:25on. For many there won't be. It's a 1%
32:28failure rate. That's the opposite of
32:29many. Is almost a million abortions a
32:30year enough? No, I don't know. A million
32:32abortions a year for 330 million people,
32:34I don't know if that's enough. Hold on.
32:35You're Wait, wait, wait, you're so
32:36easily you're you're you're you're
32:37you're saying many people experience a
32:39rate. That's not what 1% means. 1% is
32:41not many. One other point because I know
32:43that you think abortion typically is
32:44acceptable to a certain point. There's
32:46over 10,000 abortions that happen after
32:48the marker where you think it's a human
32:49life. Okay. So, is 10,000 abortions
32:5210,000 murders? You would consider it
32:54murder
32:55of children that are viable in this
32:58country a year. Is that worth the
33:00promiscuity of adults? If you're
33:02pro-life, do you care about all the
33:03women dying of sepsis because they
33:05aren't able in certain states to get
33:06abortions?
33:08Do you care that they're forcing women
33:10to to to miscarry to you know, to bleed
33:13out before they get medical care? Does
33:15that concern you at all in your pro-life
33:17party?
33:18>> analysis of the some of those cases
33:19where ProPublica has claimed that people
33:21didn't get medical care because of
33:23pro-life laws and that's completely
33:24false. Oh, I see. All all all that
33:26research is wrong, but
33:28but all your James O'Keefe
33:30gotcha videos are correct. No, it's
33:32true. There's not a single pro-life law
33:34that prevents mothers from getting
33:35miscarriage care or medical care.
33:38So, there's a lot of fear-mongering that
33:39goes on because people are trying to
33:41justify legal abortion. Lila, there is
33:43story after story. We're not making up
33:46the the you know, the people
33:48that are getting sepsis and bleeding out
33:50because they can't I've actually
33:51interviewed some of these stories like
33:52Ryan from Texas who said his I actually
33:54did two different interviews with him.
33:56He never published them, which is
33:57interesting, where he said my my wife
33:59had to go to the emergency room. She was
34:01denied an abortion. He has this whole
34:02story, right? We actually look at his
34:04story and what we discover is that he
34:06went to an ER where they're not equipped
34:08to do the procedure that can remove a
34:10baby after the baby has passed, right?
34:12So, that would not be an abortion
34:13procedure. If there's a miscarriage and
34:15the baby has already passed, removing
34:17the baby is not illegal in Texas or any
34:20pro-life state because there's no
34:21heartbeat. The baby has passed, right?
34:23So, he went to this is an example of one
34:25of the cases you're referencing. This
34:26couple went to an urgent care and they
34:29said, "We want to have an abortion and
34:32we want medical care for our this this
34:34this mother who's miscarrying." There
34:36was no heartbeat and he says, "We were
34:37denied an abortion because Texas is
34:39pro-life." What really happened,
34:41Stephanie, to set the record straight
34:42here is that urgent care wasn't equipped
34:45to do the procedure anyways. And so,
34:46he's blaming them for incompetency, but
34:48that's anywhere in most most states,
34:50right? And then when he got to the
34:52hospital, they have a wait and see
34:54method because sometimes when you're
34:56miscarrying, you'll just pass naturally.
34:57They don't want to go to intervention
34:58right away. That happens in California,
35:00a pro-abortion state. So, a lot of these
35:02cases there's misinformation where
35:04people get confused over what's actually
35:05going on.
35:06>> be here all night if you're going to
35:07cite your one case that you think proves
35:09this.
35:10>> I can I can I can cite you 20 more cases
35:13of women bleeding out, of women having
35:16sepsis. I I I just cannot believe you're
35:19justifying
35:20letting a teenager that's been raped
35:22bleed out of sepsis because of your your
35:26crazy extreme anti-choice positions.
35:29Give me one case. Oh.
35:32Make an argument of why the government
35:34or you or anyone knows better for my
35:37body than me. So, I'd love to respond if
35:40I may. So, how you know better about my
35:41body than me? So, I I don't know your
35:43body Right, you don't know anyone's body
35:46but your own body. So, you shouldn't be
35:48making decisions for anyone. If you
35:49would let me respond, I'd love to
35:50respond to what you're saying. So, your
35:51argument is that bodily autonomy your
35:53bodily autonomy is more important than
35:55the unborn child's right to life.
35:56>> equal. Okay. You didn't listen. So, you
35:58do you have the right to kill your
35:59unborn child? My bodily autonomy
36:01>> have the right to kill your unborn
36:02child?
36:03>> I have a right to use my body and my
36:05organs however I To kill your unborn
36:07child?
36:07>> No one has the right to use my body or
36:09organs without my consent. So, does that
36:11mean I have the right to kill
36:13How is it killing him? Abortion is
36:15killing that child. That's
36:20Can I explain that
36:23If I can respond, I can't we can't have
36:25a conversation if I can't respond. An
36:26abortion is the intentional killing of
36:28that child. So, what
36:29>> That is your definition. It's a medical
36:30procedure. It's a health care medical
36:32procedure.
36:32>> respond. So, an abortion involves either
36:34poisoning the baby to death via an
36:35abortion pill. It involves suctioning
36:37the baby to death in a first trimester
36:39abortion. It can involve live
36:41dismemberment of that baby in a second
36:43trimester abortion or in a third
36:44trimester abortion involves a lethal
36:46injection. So, what's that got to do
36:47with bodily autonomy? In all of those
36:49cases it's actually killing the baby.
36:50Bodily autonomy. Explain what Pause,
36:52Whitney. I'm so sorry. You were voted
36:53out by the majority. Please return to
36:54your seat. Thank you, Whitney.

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