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Letecia Stauch Trial Day 13 Livestream | FBI Video Interview and NEW Witnesses — Transcript

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0:00foreign
0:02[Music]
0:21[Applause]
0:21[Music]
0:52hey guys and today I'm about to play
0:55some Sonic Mania
0:57[Music]
1:14[Music]
1:18foreign
1:43[Music]
1:51[Music]
2:00hello everyone and welcome back to
2:02another Grizzly True Crime live stream
2:04with me gizela K this is day 13 of the
2:08Leticia staff trial week number four
2:11starting out of six to eight weeks so
2:13I'm still not sure exactly how long it
2:15will last last week one of the defense
2:17attorneys said we're about halfway so
2:19I'm not too sure if it's going to be six
2:21weeks or eight weeks but we're gonna be
2:22in
2:23in it together all the way so uh welcome
2:28please like the video and share it in
2:30case someone didn't get the notification
2:32or They don't know about us yet um it
2:35helps other people to find us sound
2:38check can you hear me are we good
2:44okay I want to quickly show you
2:45something
2:47for those who know nothing about the
2:49case we're looking at the case of Ganon
2:51stock an 11 year old boy who was
2:53murdered on January 27 2020 in the
2:56Lawson Ranch area of Colorado Springs by
2:59his stepmother Leticia Stark who's on
3:01trial she is pleading Not Guilty by
3:04reason of insanity and so they're trying
3:07to prove whether you know was she insane
3:10or not at the time of committing the
3:11crime
3:13sound good okay I feel like I'm lagging
3:16a bit I'm not sure why that is
3:19so that's that's no fun
3:23okay so what I want to show you
3:25is this
3:28we've got seven minutes or so left to
3:30court
3:32what is the insanity plea
3:35the insanity defense defined the
3:37insanity defense is a criminal defense
3:39strategy where the defendant May plead
3:40Innocent by reason of insanity when the
3:43defendant makes an insanity plea they
3:44still acknowledge that they were
3:46involved but were not of sound mind at
3:48the time of the crime the insanity
3:50defense is sometimes confused with
3:52diminished capacity a defense where the
3:55defendant is pleading to a lesser crime
3:56instead of removing themselves from the
3:58criminal act entirely unlike diminished
4:01capacity the insanity plea is a full
4:03defense against the crime meaning the
4:06accused is pleading not guilty welcome
4:09to all my patrons welcome to all members
4:12whether it's all new members as well
4:14new subscribers moderators everyone and
4:17Tulare it's always so nice to see an OG
4:21which is original Grizzly when my
4:23channel started and I had like 18 people
4:25in the chat larae was there Aloha rate
4:29so nice to see you
4:31so I was just thinking of Hillary
4:32because normally when I do this type of
4:34explanation you say that you know you
4:37see G always explains it to us yes
4:40okay
4:42I'm just checking what you guys are
4:43saying okay we've got a few more minutes
4:45so
4:47oh
4:49chords started
5:06early
6:22okay and do we have everybody
6:26yeah okay all right then let's go ahead
6:29and bring the jury in
6:31okay the sound should be on now um
6:34tell me if you can still advise lawyers
6:36you know it as well as I do we have an
6:38adverse weather event from tomorrow
6:40evening into Wednesday morning I don't
6:43know whether that's going to impact on
6:44anything or not it looks like it's going
6:46to be mostly Northern El Paso county is
6:48at least the projections that I've seen
6:50okay so as long as people can get
6:53downtown we should be okay yeah and I
6:55don't know which bar jurors it may
6:57potentially impact but I'll um have
6:59discussion with them about it yeah
7:04yep
7:07Gotta Love Colorado
7:25all rise for the jury please
7:55I think he may all be seated the court
7:57will recall 20 cr1358 people versus
8:00Leticia Stout record should reflect the
8:02jury's uh is present in the courtroom
8:04good morning ladies and gentlemen
8:07um a couple of things
8:08um
8:09we anticipate that there may be an
8:12adverse weather events uh sometime I
8:14think it's supposed to be tomorrow
8:16evening into Wednesday morning so make
8:19sure two things you have that contact
8:21information for me my card so you know
8:24how to call us if you need to number two
8:27if there's an issue or you're concerned
8:30or you have a question uh 719-520 snow
8:34and that will tell you if there is a
8:36delay here at the courthouse if it says
8:39that there is a two-hour delay be here
8:41at 10 o'clock instead of nine o'clock
8:45um so not 11 o'clock uh 10 o'clock
8:49um
8:50that should resolve that issue I think
8:53it's primarily supposed to get more the
8:55mountains and North Palmer divide I
8:58don't know how many of you may be up
8:59near that area so
9:02um just keep an eye on that
9:04um and then uh I have the question that
9:06you've all heard before has anything
9:08occurred since we were last together
9:10that causes any of you to believe you
9:11could not continue to serve as a fair
9:13and impartial juror in this case if so
9:16please raise your hand
9:18no response all right when we took our
9:21break on Friday we were in the midst of
9:22testimony from John grusing
9:26um I think that's where we're resuming
9:27yes judge all right uh Mr grusing if you
9:30would resume your seat in the witness
9:32stand I remind you sir that you're still
9:33under oath
9:43and we don't need it just yet judge but
9:45it's uh some point here in just a minute
9:48or so we're going to need the screen
9:49instruction as well
9:51uh good morning Mr grossing do you have
9:53a good weekend I did thank you good uh
9:56when we last uh had you on the stand we
9:59had just played uh the portion of the
10:01video where you're talking with the
10:03defendant about the board that was found
10:04up in southern Douglas County do you
10:06remember that portion yes and you used a
10:09word in your question throne and then
10:12you got quite a challenge from the
10:13defendant
10:15um was that consistent where she would
10:17challenge you on things uh that were
10:18maybe peripheral yes can you give
10:21examples of that and what that meant to
10:23you during this interview
10:27she used words like she was giving us
10:30keys and then
10:33um if I wasn't correct on my guesses
10:35which I had asked her not to have me
10:37guess since I didn't know all the
10:39answers she would get upset if I didn't
10:41guess correctly on whether it's scan its
10:44location or what she was doing when her
10:45phone was off those sorts of things
10:48what do you mean by guesses uh and give
10:51examples of what you mean when you use
10:53the word guesses
10:57so
10:59especially during this later part of the
11:02interview when I was asking her about
11:04the blood uh more than once she would
11:07say that if I knew enough about this
11:09investigation I should be able to say
11:11either where Gannon is or more details
11:14about what was going on that I couldn't
11:16guess too
11:18so it was just it was an effective way
11:20really for her to
11:22not answer my question and tell me that
11:25she knew things I didn't know
11:28that indicate to you
11:30um
11:30fairly High intellect
11:32it did and forward thinking and that she
11:36knew that the questions that I was
11:38asking her would require a difficult
11:39answer and so she was requiring the same
11:42out of me something that was actually
11:43impossible for me to answer because I
11:46didn't know what she knew
11:48in as it relates to that are you talking
11:50about gannon's location at this
11:52particular time yes okay
11:57um just after that portion of a video
12:00where we were watching uh you asking her
12:02about the board with blood being found
12:03up in uh Southern Douglas County did you
12:06ask her or I guess confront her with
12:09other pieces of evidence as well
12:11yes all right so the next section we're
12:13going to play is a shorter section it's
12:15at four hours seven minutes and 13
12:17seconds through four hours 10 minutes
12:19and 13 seconds
12:36do you know why I told you about that I
12:39normally don't do this tell everybody
12:40all the evidence against them
12:43why do you think
12:46because I think if you're to weigh this
12:48on
12:49there's enough probable cause a judge in
12:52Colorado Springs in El Paso has signed a
12:54probable cause warrant her first degree
12:56murder
12:57and all this evidence and I'm telling
13:00you about the ones that I know about and
13:02that's before you do
13:04you know all the fun stuff etc etc and
13:07then versus
13:09you taking a chance that you're going to
13:11get out
13:12nothing because I didn't do anything sir
13:15okay sir if you say it's if you say you
13:18did
13:20you didn't I have had plenty of innocent
13:22people sitting in your chair the only
13:24innocent person with you they would be
13:26freaking
13:27you are not freaking yeah right you
13:30think I haven't freaked out I heard you
13:31freak out I think I haven't forgot for
13:34days you can't judge the way I freak
13:36something out one way in another way
13:37I've had the wrong person in a room like
13:40this
13:50[Music]
13:51you sit here with an answer that
13:53somebody else took Gannon that all this
13:56head wound and all this all this stuff
13:58happened in there do you think I don't
14:00know what I'm talking about sir I never
14:01question anything
14:05sure but I'm not taking any chance how
14:08would you not take it because I know the
14:10man upstairs knows I did not do anything
14:13to be on the journey
14:15right we're not going to go there with
14:17that
14:18we're not going to go there we're going
14:19to sensible people who are going to
14:21present evidence in front of let me tell
14:23you what
14:24higher power
14:27we'll make sure I believe
14:29in the power as well
14:31that really makes me human it really
14:34does I'm serious
14:35you know about Leticia if this comes
14:39down to Common Sense and these
14:41prosecutors I'm not talking about you
14:42I'm talking about who you're going to be
14:44sitting in front of okay and if you're
14:46going to take a chance that they're not
14:48going to listen to all this evidence
14:50all this Blood all these stories that
14:53you've told about Gannon and that you
14:54have the key to finding him and you
14:56don't do it there's nobody else to
14:57prosecute
15:00why won't you go there
15:03um why why am I what am I what else am I
15:05going to say the easiest thing to tell
15:07me is the last time you start getting it
15:10already
15:12I've already told you
15:16okay but then what do I need to do I
15:18need to go through again the other
15:20things that might have happened again
15:22where did you gently place Canon I don't
15:25know how to phrase it what are you
15:27talking about I don't know because I
15:29don't know where he is if you want me to
15:31use a different verb or whatever I'm
15:34struggling
15:38I've got to pause that four hours 10
15:40minutes and 13 seconds why have you
15:42shifted tactics here to um trying to Now
15:45find low
15:46gannon's location as to getting
15:49descriptions of what happened to him
15:54well she seems to be more reluctant to
15:57answer questions now and she showed me
16:00what the particle board she got upset
16:02when I said she threw it
16:04and and as I said earlier she gets upset
16:07if I guess so I try different verbs like
16:09placing it setting it those sorts of
16:12things and then she will settle back
16:15down
16:16so that's why I'm trying different ways
16:19to get her to communicate to me
16:22any other clue that might have happened
16:25with Ganon so
16:27I'm just trying out a different tactic
16:29again
16:31including Clues potentially towards his
16:33location yes okay
16:36um
16:37when you go down this particular path of
16:39of talking about last place that she may
16:42have seen Ganon did she give you any
16:44keys that helped find Gannon
16:48no and I had already asked her in the
16:52previous section
16:54who the last person was with Gannon
16:56since she was saying it wasn't her we
16:58had been through the angel routine and
17:01then I was trying to see if she would
17:02push it to anybody else and she's not so
17:05since she's not pushing it to anybody
17:07else she's basically saying it's her
17:10so I just want to her to say
17:12where she last saw him whether it was in
17:14the house whether it was at the Petco
17:15whether it's at Palmer Lake
17:17to give us some sort of clue of her last
17:20sighting of him
17:22you made a statement in that section
17:24that you don't normally tell people that
17:26you're interviewing about all of the
17:27evidence one why do you not typically do
17:30that
17:32we don't typically do that because we
17:35don't want the defendant or whoever
17:37we're in front of to testify falsely to
17:40something in case we give them too much
17:43evidence and then they they say
17:44something they didn't do
17:46also we don't want them to know what we
17:48know because I want their statement to
17:50be pure in that they're not just
17:53repeating what I say
17:55uh with this interview we had gone far
17:59enough to where
18:00we would do something called the
18:02collaborative interview to where we we
18:04bring the person in with us and we share
18:06as much as we can to try to get them to
18:09collaborate and cooperate with us since
18:11I'm working towards a solution and I'm
18:13trying to bring her in uh almost as an
18:16investigator to help me find out what
18:18happened again and so the more facts
18:20that that I introduced to her slowly I'm
18:22hoping that she'll start cooperating
18:24with me so you anticipated my follow-up
18:27question is why were you doing that in
18:28this case but you just answered that
18:31um as this discussion uh sort of
18:34develops did she then talk about faith
18:36in God and that kind of thing she does
18:38okay we're gonna go ahead and play that
18:40it's basically from this point forward
18:41to four minutes four hours 14 minutes
18:43and six seconds
18:50um
18:53okay sure this is not about you
18:56you're the one caught up in it though
18:58you're the one with all the evidence
18:59stacked against you okay well help
19:02yourself right now
19:04why would you not
19:06tell me what happened
19:09well I don't know
19:14the way you describe absolutely
19:21the ones that you describe to him don't
19:23even come from
19:26no it's not okay this is what people
19:28that do this for a living tell me okay
19:30again I wasn't there but a little gash
19:33on his head okay doesn't explain at all
19:36all that stuff that's in there
19:40but do you want to go with that because
19:42when you walked out of here the last
19:44thing the last thing on record you're
19:46going to have is what you told me and I
19:47would love to be your Storyteller okay I
19:50would love to tell the true story
19:53it will help you
19:55you believe in that higher power oh I do
19:57that's why
19:59do you study the truth you don't know
20:01why I'm not sitting here like going
20:03crazy freaking out putting on a motion
20:05show like I've seen people involved in
20:08this situation put on fake cries and all
20:11that
20:12because I know God knows
20:19I mean what about the truth
20:21you you study the same Bible the same
20:24God
20:25it tells a lot about truth in there and
20:27you have not told many trees in this
20:29whole thing
20:31let me tell you what happened this
20:33morning
20:36when I woke up this morning I watched it
20:38through that wrong rhythm so
20:41we started this
20:44we ended up like getting talked down to
20:48bullied online treated like crap accused
20:51of things we didn't do I agree with sort
20:53of accusation part
20:55so we went down this whole Trail talking
20:58about how accusation and how this is
21:03doing what what he had to go through all
21:07that but in the end
21:10we kept his face
21:12these products you know about the stores
21:15of following robots
21:17I can walk you through a lot in about
21:19them if you know you know what I'm
21:20talking about bro
21:23can you find those accusations
21:26into just keeping stay fast and being
21:29strong I mean for believing God's going
21:32to be with and people whatever because
21:35you know probably persecuted a lot of
21:37Christians right
21:38a lot of them for things they didn't do
21:40right but you know there's a lot of
21:42stories where God made sure they were
21:43okay
21:44so when I woke up this morning
21:47I live I literally decided God you can
21:52take this
21:53and you can either Aid
21:56bring decent home
21:59bring him to the front step drop him off
22:02so that I can please never have to worry
22:06about this again
22:06[Music]
22:09you can
22:11let me stay focused on believing in you
22:14and just
22:19the truth will come out
22:22and it's okay because I don't want to
22:25sit here and excuse all these people
22:26with whatever I'm not going to turn the
22:28same aggregations against them for
22:30saying this and saying that not believe
22:31in this not anymore I'm just gonna be
22:34different okay I know I did not hurt
22:37again thank you
22:40so I've got it positive four hours 14
22:42minutes and six seconds
22:44um did you go on from this basically to
22:45then
22:46um try to get her to tell you more
22:48details about when she last Saw Gannon
22:50yes all right so we're going to jump to
22:52that section at four hours 17 minutes
22:54and 18 seconds
23:03and we will play through four hours 20
23:04minutes and three seconds
23:07Go a different way if you did something
23:09badly manner I'm just saying I'm saying
23:12we don't have
23:13if you did something right again and
23:15could you ever admit it
23:21okay this is not a trick but I'm not
23:25going to go answer that question because
23:26I did not do anything back the reason
23:28why I asked you that is the people that
23:30I've worked with are actually put in
23:33prison for life
23:34I've told them and I've told people the
23:37families of these victims I said if you
23:39put Harold in a room
23:41and you take everybody else out we have
23:43absolute evidence that he pushed his
23:45wife off with and that he dropped a
23:47colonist in the life and he was
23:48convicted
23:50I said even if you clear everybody out
23:51and you just have Harold in a mirror
23:53Harold was a Godfather of Christ
23:56Christian life you are but he could
23:58never admit that he did that to either
24:00one well I'm sorry
24:03Harold or that type of person because a
24:07Godfather not judging him I'm saying
24:10in order for you you have to repent
24:13you're saying to God okay you have to
24:17put yourself there and in order to
24:19repent yourself do things to God it
24:21means also you have to lay them all down
24:23on the cross and like my sins are laid
24:26down it is not involving hurting hurting
24:29or killing you
24:31so I'm sorry that hurt Harold or
24:33whatever his name is sounds like a
24:35different approach well I think you have
24:37probably a more serious problem than
24:39heroin does because you know where an 11
24:41year old is and I'm here telling you we
24:44could go find him and you are not giving
24:46us his location alive or dead
24:49so what Harold did was push a 50 year
24:52old woman up as well it was an awful
24:54thing and the parents hated losing
24:55Towing but Tony had lived a full life as
24:59full as you can to 50. it was still
25:01trying to the end of the weather
25:10you would give it to us
25:12I don't know where he is but you won't
25:15answer my question about the last time
25:17you saw it I've listened sir anything I
25:20say to you you're not gonna listen to me
25:21you're gonna take
25:24but they should
25:28to be honest with you I can give you
25:31speculation okay give me for everyone
25:33else please I can give you okay
25:35speculation
25:37regulation is you can move on
25:39congratulations with someone who is not
25:43willing to hurt him until they get
25:44something they want
25:46or when they make a demand then
25:49why would they hold an 11 year old kid
25:51that's more sadistic
25:54so as we talked about we stopped it at
25:56four hours 20 minutes and three seconds
25:59um why did you start this section out
26:01with uh asking could she admit it what
26:04was in your mind when you asked that
26:05question
26:09um
26:10when it's a familial matter and someone
26:13that uh
26:16you really care about is the person that
26:18you've harmed I haven't yet had someone
26:20who's admitted to me that they were
26:22responsible for that harm or homicide
26:25and so that's why you're asking that
26:27particular question yes okay
26:29and then does it devolve back into now
26:32he's been kidnapped by some group yes
26:35all right
26:37did you then uh confront her again about
26:39the blood on the wall
26:41yes does she bring up a miscarriage that
26:44she apparently had had some time prior
26:46she does all right let's watch that
26:47section it starts at four hours 21
26:49minutes and 47 seconds and goes through
26:52four hours 23 minutes and 47 seconds
26:58all right
27:15I'm just doing a quick mic check do I
27:17sound like a robot I'm just checking
27:19because WebEx is on thank you all for
27:21being here
27:22I'm just fiddling with all these
27:24settings so that I can make sure it's
27:26sharp and the colors are nice and it's
27:29placed right for you okay I want you to
27:31have the best viewing experience of this
27:33trial
27:37and and yes it's blurry because we
27:40zoomed into chord let me show you what
27:41it looks like from the court stream okay
27:44the this is what it looks like when it's
27:46just ordinary chord stream
27:49and so what I do for you is is the
27:51following
27:53like this
27:55no robot
27:58let's not jinx it though
28:02I can't believe Leticia is already
28:03asleep
28:05like
28:07Leticia why is she allowed to sleep like
28:10this I know we all ask that but like
28:11come on
28:13wait I think she's a little too bright
28:15we can't see
28:17saturation going up there we go
28:21a word
28:23thank you Katie bug Katie bug says
28:25that's why we are here on Grizzly she's
28:27the best thank you Janet says very
28:29Steven Spielberg G
28:31I know right inspired by Jurassic Park
28:33itself
28:36and the only you know during all of this
28:40everything is fine but the judge he
28:42moves around a lot he moves around on
28:45that camera a lot like right now I gotta
28:47adjust it again so if you see me adjust
28:49this all the time it's because the judge
28:50moves around a lot there he is
28:52oh I made him so sharp so nice and sharp
28:55Jazzy
28:57Jazzy whip it thank you so much for your
28:59super sticker
29:03and she said Gee did you help the FBI
29:06with organizing all the teacher stories
29:07you have the expertise
29:09do they still need help though is the
29:10question because I have I have the story
29:12down if you guys didn't see my summary
29:15video
29:16um I made a summary video of all of
29:18leticia's characters that she made up
29:20eguardo Quincy Brown Uncle Matt Angel
29:24who who was wanting a threesome with
29:26Leticia and there's cash belly lady and
29:29then we also did some map time and I
29:32made some YouTube shorts as well and one
29:34of my favorite shorts that I shared
29:35recently is where Leticia in this video
29:37interrogation says Tiguan
29:41big one when they're like we have
29:42tracked your TIG one we know you were
29:44there she's like Tiguan
29:46oh my word
29:48Jane says short this judge is so sharp
29:52right now I just sharpened everything
29:54shortened and brightened yes so I don't
29:58know I don't know what's happening right
29:59now the judge asked Council to approach
30:02so prosecution defense they approach and
30:04they're discussing something shall we
30:06lip read
30:08while he's looking snarky as who
30:13he's like
30:15oh my word so many things so many colors
30:17all at once TV TV welcome to membership
30:20Natalie o says gee you're the best thank
30:22you so much Natalie
30:25Mary T says she is so disrespectful and
30:28action is distracting I agree
30:30I really wish they would shave her hair
30:32off so she can't hide behind that hair
30:33or curtain
30:34thank you so much ride on
30:37Nicole Anderson thank you for your super
30:39sticker
30:40Donna said new to you loving that and I
30:42like
30:45vumbed in more
30:47thank you so much we are booming it over
30:49here
30:50yeah so I don't know what they're
30:51approaching about or what the problem
30:53really is but they talking about
30:54something
30:55they said there's some weather warnings
30:57in Colorado coming up in the next two
30:59days so that should be interesting
31:00because it's supposed to be experts
31:02flying in from the East Coast on
31:05Wednesday and even one from Hawaii
31:09um maybe by Thursday or so so hmm
31:11interesting thank you so much Sherry
31:13Young
31:14and while we're having a little break
31:15here
31:16uh thank you to everyone oh my word you
31:18guys have been buying me coffees oh my
31:20word thank you so much I went there to
31:22reply to all of you guys and I'm like
31:23what
31:24I am all copied up I've had three
31:27coffees already today thank you so much
31:32if you are becoming a member today
31:33please check out the members only
31:34playlist because sometimes we have
31:37snarky debriefs we've had a few of those
31:38go check them out on this case you might
31:40like it thank you Martha
31:44uh Cherry says World Cook's not much
31:46better with his nervous rocking yep I
31:49know
31:50I wonder how long they're going to be
31:51doing this for huh
31:53the reason I ask is because
31:56still want to go over this
31:59can we make it smaller
32:02um
32:07oh that looks huge nevermind nevermind
32:10I'm ruining it sorry about that
32:14sorry my bad okay let me just let me
32:17just rather watch and tell you okay the
32:19insanity fence is a criminal defense
32:21strategy where the defendant May plead
32:23Innocent by reason of insanity when the
32:25defendant makes an insanity plea they
32:27acknowledge that they were involved but
32:28we're not of sound mind at the time of
32:30the crime did Leticia herself say yep I
32:32did it no but through her lawyer she
32:34said that okay
32:37so how to prove Insanity under the law
32:42in order to make an insanity Defense
32:43work the defense has to prove that their
32:46client the defendant was insane at the
32:48time of the crime in the legal realm
32:50insane does not necessarily mean the
32:51same thing as what we might think of
32:53when hearing the term Insanity under the
32:55law if someone is not guilty by reason
32:57of insanity they may not have been in
32:59their right mind when the crime was
33:00committed in some cases this defense May
33:03refer to a severe episode of Mental
33:05Illness but not always a defendant may
33:08be considered insane if they were pushed
33:09into criminal activity by political
33:11ideology or acting out after a traumatic
33:14event do you guys remember I know I
33:17didn't stream day two and three I did a
33:19from day three in the afternoon I was
33:21already streaming the trial that's when
33:22I made the decision we're going to be
33:23yeah she's blocked out right now sorry
33:25about it the guy's quote is in the way
33:27I'll show you like this
33:28there you go
33:33so you see he's the the attorney is
33:36blocking the way so I'll just take that
33:37off so it doesn't confuse anyone
33:40all right so do you remember that uh L
33:43Stout's mother had stayed
33:46at their house for about a week
33:48and left on that Saturday and so did
33:51hell whoa I just re-listened to some of
33:53that from day two and three yes thank
33:55you okay here we go here we go where we
33:56left off we were going to jump to
33:58the confrontation about blood on the
34:00wall and being compared to a miscarriage
34:02and it's going to jump to four hours 21
34:04minutes and 47 seconds
34:07okay let's go
34:12and we will play through four hours 23
34:16minutes and 47 seconds so exactly two
34:18minutes worth of video
34:20if you had nothing to do with farming
34:22Cannon why would you clean up the blood
34:24that's on the wall
34:26do you
34:28do you saying you never had anything
34:29happen in your house when you cleaned it
34:31up never like you
34:33you why would you cut out the carpet the
34:35nosebleeds the carpet
34:38because I was going to get more carpet
34:42the carpet has nothing to do with
34:44cutting it out it's getting smelled I
34:47don't I couldn't breathe none of us
34:48could breathe did you say that Elena
34:51helps you clean up some of the blood on
34:53the wall
34:55Alina always helps the screen on
34:56everything like to help them sleep the
34:58lights blue as long as you have to point
34:59out what I'm getting out of nosebleed
35:00okay but for this occasion she helps
35:03with that
35:04thank you
35:05how are you going to walk me back
35:07through what we've already talked about
35:09so you're now going to go be like oh an
35:12eight-year-old this to an eight-year-old
35:13that
35:17We There was all the time again it was
35:19weeding all the time you have a nose we
35:21randomly at the drop of a dime he bite
35:24his fingers bleed
35:26all the time
35:29would it help if I gave you a picture of
35:30the wall of what else showed up on it
35:40is again you weighing your options right
35:42now before we're gone
35:45because you're taking a big risk
35:48location
35:56world
36:00and when it does
36:03I would never have to work a day in my
36:04life again
36:06and that's going to happen
36:09guaranteed
36:11yes it will in prison he did not dispose
36:15kill whatever you want to call these
36:18things that you're going to name out as
36:19verbs
36:22foreign
36:24so why did you confront her with uh the
36:27blood cleanup and for instance the
36:29carpet cut out
36:33we had talked about it before but uh
36:36this is what I'm left with to speak with
36:38her about is the evidence in the case to
36:40see if she'll move from where she was
36:45were you trying to give her an opening
36:47to give you more details
36:49yes and I don't remember if I had
36:53brought up before Lana's participation
36:56in this but I wanted to say no you mean
36:58yeah Atlanta's participation and to see
37:00how she would react to that
37:04again is it consistent throughout the
37:07interview that um
37:09she would resist those opportunities
37:12when it related to the specifics of the
37:14the crime itself
37:16yes and again she said she sees the
37:19pathway where these questions would be
37:21going and she says she's not going to go
37:23there appreciating where you want to get
37:26to correct
37:33from your perception was that logical
37:35thought process very
37:45shortly after this portion of the video
37:47do you confront her with uh trying to
37:50get information about hey there's a boy
37:51out there
37:53um helped me find him help me get him
37:54home yes let's jump to that section four
37:57hours 24 minutes and 29 seconds
38:06and we will play through four hours 32
38:09minutes and 50 seconds so about eight
38:11minutes judge I'm not sure if you want
38:13to allow Mr goosing to step down during
38:14this eight minute portion thanks
38:17so starting at four hours 24 minutes and
38:2029 seconds
38:22and about why would you act like this
38:24when there's a boy out there I want
38:27Canon home
38:28then tell me how to do it I want to help
38:31you I don't know
38:33I don't let's see that's more easy
38:36questions
38:37should be easy to answer because no I
38:39don't know that's an easy answer the
38:41easy answer is tell me the very last
38:43time you laid eyes on him where was he
38:45was he laying down was he standing up
38:47was he fitting was he walking to a car
38:50foreign
38:57that's an easy question you have to
38:59remember your last image again
39:04or teaching
39:06what was he doing
39:10why would you not answer that because
39:12I'm giving you know you haven't told me
39:15exactly what you saw when you saw him
39:17for the very last time did you see the
39:19back of his head did you see his face
39:22what was his expression
39:24did he say goodbye to you
39:30how many of your last you know I wish I
39:32could see in your head right now your
39:34very last image is there but you won't
39:36tell me why won't you tell me because
39:38there's nothing bad well then tell me if
39:40it's nothing bad you would tell me
39:50in Japan
39:52I don't have any bad images again I
39:55didn't say it was bad I don't have any
39:57what's the very last picture of seeing
39:59Ganon alive
40:00or not alive that you have in your brain
40:03he is alive
40:07what did you see
40:15what's inshallah like you said earlier
40:18okay being a good person you didn't hurt
40:21him you didn't do all this I'm repeating
40:22it back to you why could you not tell me
40:24then if that all that is true
40:27why can't you answer that last time you
40:29saw him what would that hurt to tell me
40:35what
40:43no I don't well then tell me I don't
40:46need any kind sir what is wrong with
40:48that question there's nothing wrong with
40:49a question you're I'm not I've already
40:51made it clear
40:53that I wasn't going to answer more
40:54questions you've never answered this one
40:57because
40:58you have already predetermined what you
41:01want your brain along with everyone else
41:04why do you care about what's in my brain
41:06so you you just asked me about mine
41:09yeah because your brain's the only one
41:11that counts here it doesn't matter
41:12what's in my brain
41:15the very last time you saw Gana or was
41:17he what was he doing
41:25did you put did y'all put a reward out
41:31um
41:33they automatically have a predetermined
41:36thing in your brain
41:37can you give me something else I'll go
41:39yeah no but wow why do you care about my
41:42brain Leticia yours is the one that
41:44matters
41:59[Music]
42:01have you checked all these places I've
42:03been and where was Gannon was he there
42:09for a little bit to say You're Gonna
42:12live with it for the rest of your life
42:15but why don't you tell me today I'm not
42:18living with anything horrible in my
42:19brain I'm not well then it should be an
42:22easy question I've given you the answer
42:24of the last time you saw him
42:26no you haven't
42:33great it's not the image that you want
42:36to be like
42:37that's not going to convince me to say
42:40something that I did okay then maybe it
42:41is and tell me why else would you not
42:44tell me
42:45because you keep going with the same
42:46question and if you've already
42:51when I thought you were going to help
42:52that was different but you predetermined
42:55yourself you didn't tell me about the
42:56last thing you saw was even with your
42:58answer there and that's fine if you want
42:59to tell me the thing with angels
43:02other than saying
43:05I will
43:07it will
43:09stop
43:11everyone
43:12but I will promise you I won't have to
43:15worry about nothing the rest of my life
43:16because I didn't do it that's what you
43:19did
43:20what's going to come out that you didn't
43:22tell the FBI who took Gannon if that's
43:24your deal
43:26how's that going to shock everybody okay
43:29okay
43:32I didn't think you were guilty until you
43:35don't answer the last time you saw him
43:37listening no I didn't I mean you
43:39automatically thought that we
43:41automatically thought that already if I
43:43was willing to listen if you were going
43:44to give me evidence to the contrary
43:47but I have talked to many people who
43:49have seen someone disappear
43:51it never goes away that last image well
43:55it never goes away and you've got it in
43:57your mind and you won't tell me right
43:59there's only one reason you won't tell
44:01me you're right people do have when
44:03people do bad things their images stay
44:04in their brain you're right bad we're
44:06good so a lot of these dads didn't know
44:08when the last time they were going to
44:09see their daughter I mean and they still
44:11remember it like it was yesterday 14
44:13years now yeah you remember the last
44:15time you saw game yeah so tell me what
44:17you saw
44:19nothing negative so tell me what you saw
44:21I saw nothing negative I saw nothing
44:25again you're not telling you're telling
44:27me nothing you're saying nothing nothing
44:29just tell me what you did see the
44:31positive
44:32winning
44:38or was it standing
44:40I'm just gonna tell you okay I'm sorry
44:42how again and it was okay okay
44:46singing
44:48[Music]
44:51and it was happy and it is
44:56my
44:58favorite stepchild my favorite I know
45:01rights are their favorites and things
45:03like that or say not really necessarily
45:05favored or whatever but he was do you
45:07remember
45:09how we talked earlier about when I asked
45:11you a question and you go around I'm not
45:13but I'm not
45:15I'm not you're saying you're giving me
45:16qualities again and you're not saying
45:19you're saying he's a favorite stepson
45:21what did you see yeah
45:23was he standing or sitting I didn't do
45:25anything today I said your last memory
45:28okay well I've been doing things again
45:30so do you have it in your mind right now
45:32yeah being him for the last time oh well
45:35it's not going to be the last time
45:36though
45:37the last time you saw him do you have
45:39that do you have that picture in your
45:41mind
45:44yes or no
45:47I know you're really good at what you do
45:49I appreciate that
45:51you I know that but
45:54I didn't do this before
45:56[Music]
46:00questions for you but that's that is not
46:03a hard question to answer I'm not saying
46:04did you kill him I'm not saying did you
46:06put him in a forest I'm not saying did
46:08you put him in a dumpster this is just
46:10your last image you've got to have it
46:12my images are happy life that's what
46:16it's always
46:19now you know my brain yes I know
46:24you have an image of the last time you
46:26saw Gannon
46:28if you didn't hurt him why won't you
46:30tell him that I already told you I
46:32didn't earn it I know but if you didn't
46:33well I was why would that image be a
46:35problem for you
46:37until we
46:39accusing you of anything when t-shirt
46:41just tell me the last time you saw him
46:46at the very beginning I'm sorry not up
46:48yet
46:50I'm going to ask the empty chair judge
46:52okay
46:56The Voice from behind me would have been
46:58interesting
46:59uh Mr grusing um at the very beginning
47:02of of this uh portion of the video you
47:05start out with uh easy questions and
47:07easy answers what was your purpose of
47:10uh that statement
47:12what do you mean easy questions easy
47:14answers well easy questions should be
47:16easy to answer basically
47:18yeah again if she's saying that she's
47:20innocent of this then the questions that
47:23I'm asking should be very easy for her
47:25to answer
47:26did she give you any of these um easy
47:28answers no
47:31um again here
47:33um it appears that you're sort of
47:35pushing back when she's saying well
47:37what's in your mind
47:39um did she appear to be throughout this
47:41entire interview preoccupied with what
47:43other people are thinking about her
47:46yes and that was consistent with the
47:48phone calls and what I'm trying to keep
47:49her from doing is manipulating her
47:52answer to see what I want to hear I just
47:55want to hear what she what she knows to
47:57be true
48:02this whole
48:04um issue about did you all put out a
48:06reward that kind of stuff this this
48:09entire section uh was this another
48:11example of her deflecting away from the
48:13thrust of information you're trying to
48:15gather yes
48:19right after this does she then actually
48:21challenge you about are you going to
48:22find Ganon yes all right let's watch
48:25that portion basically uh from this
48:28section on through four hours 35 minutes
48:30and 56 seconds so
48:34um just a couple minutes so if you're
48:35okay sitting there so I don't ask an
48:36empty chair questions
48:40this is an easy question compared to all
48:43the other ones we've done
48:47please
48:55are you going to find again yes oh well
48:58I would rather spend our time doing that
49:00because I don't have him I didn't do
49:02anything with him to him or hurt him
49:07and I appreciate all your work you can
49:09help us more than anybody on this planet
49:11you can help me right now find Gammon
49:14let's start with the one question I ask
49:16you
49:18any more
49:20for you because well just tell me why
49:23you don't want to answer that
49:25I've I've already doesn't matter I can
49:27tell you I laughed all getting when I
49:30went to the store this morning and it
49:32could be legit true and you would feel
49:34that I feel about it
49:38I mean
49:39I will be able to tell if you'd say what
49:42he's wearing or not even what he's
49:44wearing I was walking whether you're you
49:47will remember
49:52and just you not answering it means you
49:54remember no it doesn't yes it does okay
49:57well
49:58I'm glad that you now are a psychologist
50:01no Behavior now okay good I'm glad you
50:03have Behavior now
50:04okay
50:08I appreciate you having me
50:11what else do you want me to say your
50:12name we wouldn't
50:16we don't want to answer that I don't I
50:18don't want to tell you anything else
50:20because why why
50:23because you've already predetermined I
50:26didn't say you had anything I think you
50:28know where he is though you've already
50:30predetermined that you have
50:32the scene does tell the story yeah if
50:34that's your story
50:36then I'm not gonna keep saying anything
50:39because I know that is not the case so
50:43if I keep saying anything to you you're
50:45just gonna keep blah blah blah blah blah
50:48about it and I've been nothing but
50:49respectful to you so I'm trying to
50:51remain I'm trying to remain respectful
50:54to you overall because you know I mean
50:57disrespectful
50:59but
51:01putting me in the situation where I'm
51:03like saying to you I cannot say anything
51:07else because you've expressed you
51:10predetermined
51:12what you think
51:14you've already done that so no matter
51:17what I say I'm Legit could take you
51:20right to Ganon and he will be standing
51:22there and you would still say to me well
51:25that's not him or you would say
51:27something else too do you know how good
51:28that would be for you oh oh trust me yes
51:31then why do you care less you know how
51:33good that would be for me absolutely why
51:36do you care what I think you should not
51:37care at all what I think
51:40you said you said I wouldn't think if
51:43you could take us to Gannon right now
51:46so
51:52this idea where she's saying she doesn't
51:54have him
51:55um did you later learn that that was
51:57actually a true statement
51:58yes
52:00um because of where gaining was
52:01ultimately found correct
52:10later on in this interview did you
52:12confront her with her ability to dodge
52:13questions and spin the stories yes all
52:16right let's jump to that section at four
52:17hours and 39 minutes and 33 seconds
52:21bless you
52:27and we will play through four hours and
52:2946 minutes and 21 seconds so about seven
52:32minutes if you uh if he's allowed to
52:33come down judge
52:35I think I can handle it this time okay
52:41you've got away with spinning stories
52:42and dodging questions you're gonna lie
52:46so now you know me my whole life
52:49I can well I can look back a little bit
52:51I don't know you when you were five or
52:5313 years ago
52:56but I think something bad happened
52:58and you've been able to avoid trouble
53:01but but that doesn't happen in this case
53:04Okay so these stories that you told are
53:06much worse for you than if you just said
53:08the best thing you could have said is
53:10Gannon just went and that's it I'm not
53:13saying anything else but you describing
53:16all these injuries to him even to us
53:17today is awesome
53:21injuries like that yes you talked about
53:24it yeah
53:28[Music]
53:31foreign
53:39[Music]
53:44let's see that's what you don't do you
53:47say generalizations when I ask you how
53:49was it
53:50and why I don't even know what you're
53:52asking me the injury that caused that
53:53fool in the corner it's not a little
53:56scratch on his head and see what day it
53:59came from
54:00if that's what you're telling me why
54:03don't you test it and see what made oh
54:04it didn't happen on Monday it happened
54:11no matter what I say you're telling me
54:13it's your way or no way so why would you
54:15tell me that it's a significant enough
54:17injury that he was not
54:21oh God that's what they told me okay
54:23well that is awful that
54:26people aren't normal after after
54:28anything like that it's a significant
54:30because I had totaled the blood to
54:32remember that I had put it
54:34that I did and then there was a
54:37significant injury that I died
54:39okay
55:01maybe check one of them
55:06maybe check one of them because I bet
55:10you they can tell me the last time they
55:12come here even though it was
55:13multiplication
55:15but I'll continue the last payment
55:16program even though he didn't know that
55:18was going to be alive
55:20I guarantee you he's got an image again
55:29what do I need to say to help you
55:32I'm serious you do not want to help me
55:35yes I do no you don't
55:38you want me to tell you what you want to
55:40hear
55:41that's what you want no yes
55:45I have never wanted people to tell me
55:47what I want to hear
55:48but that doesn't lead me to finding
55:50Gannon or the truth of this matter I
55:52could care less what it is
55:55like I said most of the time I'm wrong
55:58I have to have people like you tell me
56:01the truth
56:05we didn't have anything to hide you tell
56:07me your last name of anything to hide
56:09then tell me
56:11that's not a that's not a guilt or
56:14innocence question just your last image
56:16of Kansas
56:18okay now you don't have to tell me the
56:20last time you saw him just your life
56:21image in your head
56:26what's the last damage in your head you
56:27have with them
56:30or was he yeah you said us images
56:33standing is he laying down what's he
56:36doing walking
56:39towards you or wasting you away
57:35any questions for me
57:38foreign
57:43[Music]
59:00anything
59:02is there anything I need to ask you that
59:05I haven't
59:11I don't think they don't need anything
59:29let's pausing out four hours 46 minutes
59:31and 21 seconds
59:33um
59:34as to when you both leave the room and
59:36are off camera what happened outside in
59:38the uh in the hallway I believe she went
59:40to the bathroom
59:41you then come back into the room with
59:43her
59:44we might have opened the door but I
59:46don't think we do any more uh interviews
59:48in this room okay
59:50um why'd you go down this path of
59:54um
59:54confirming her with dodging questions
59:56and spinning stories
59:59we had talked about it before and she
1:00:01had
1:00:02told me that she has done that in the
1:00:05past as far as talking in circles
1:00:07dodging questions and
1:00:10I just wanted to bring that back around
1:00:12something that she had told me to see if
1:00:15we could go straight forward just once
1:00:17with this last image question I had did
1:00:20she ever give you a straightforward
1:00:21answer to the last image in her head no
1:00:24um throughout this long interview did
1:00:27she exhibit that same sort of trade of
1:00:29dodging questions or spinning stories
1:00:31yes
1:00:32that's appeared to you and your
1:00:34perception to be a calculator move on
1:00:36her part yes
1:00:38uh your final contact with her is back
1:00:40in this room and it starts at 4 47 43
1:00:43and then goes through 4 49 17. we'll
1:00:45jump to that now
1:01:06and here like I said you're gonna have
1:01:08to go to uh
1:01:09predator of jail that holds you in
1:01:11Colorado's got the wrong super amount of
1:01:13Transportation okay do you have anything
1:01:16else for me
1:01:19today but if you have something you want
1:01:21to say I'll sit here for another four
1:01:22hours
1:01:26warrants in the system that within the
1:01:29ncisely
1:01:33that's what they picked you up on today
1:01:35was the address
1:01:39anything else
1:01:42first degree murdered again so
1:01:46that's why I was trying to come in here
1:01:48with you to help you
1:01:50if we find again
1:01:53that makes a big difference
1:01:55we'll let you go
1:02:00if he's alive
1:02:02would
1:02:03might as well try it I can't speak for
1:02:05the district attorney I'm not an
1:02:07attorney I'm an investor
1:02:10the people alive and you can get us
1:02:12again and yes
1:02:13good things will happen to you today
1:02:15versus getting shipped back to Colorado
1:02:20[Music]
1:02:25it's
1:02:35so we're now at the end of that recorded
1:02:39interview essentially
1:02:40um
1:02:43is she trying to have another off-camera
1:02:45discussion with you yes did you in fact
1:02:48have a short discussion with her off
1:02:49camera yes what happened in that
1:02:51discussion
1:02:52right outside the door we now had police
1:02:56officers waiting to transport so there
1:02:58were probably
1:02:59four or five law enforcement around us
1:03:01and she said something in a small voice
1:03:04about North Carolina that I couldn't
1:03:06hear and I asked her to repeat it and
1:03:08she said that she and I should go to
1:03:10North Carolina
1:03:12and I asked her is Gannon in North
1:03:14Carolina and she did an answer
1:03:17was that basically the extent of that
1:03:19interaction yes what I recall okay
1:03:24in looking back at your um even your
1:03:27recorded phone calls that we've heard
1:03:29throughout this trial and in this long
1:03:31interview are there any I guess regrets
1:03:35that you have as two of your approaches
1:03:37um ways that you may have been able to
1:03:39get more information about what happened
1:03:41again
1:03:44she brought up Quincy Brown to me I
1:03:48think within an hour or so of our
1:03:50interview
1:03:51and then she said if something to the
1:03:53effect of if I wasn't going to talk
1:03:55about that then it wasn't any use going
1:03:59forward and in looking at the phone
1:04:01calls with Al
1:04:03that's where she described uh most of
1:04:06gannon's injuries or a lot of them
1:04:08and looking back and playing it through
1:04:11maybe I should have gone more down the
1:04:13Quincy Brown angle to see if she would
1:04:16have been willing to disclose more
1:04:18things that's the only thing I can think
1:04:19of
1:04:21the um short portions that we didn't
1:04:24play on through your direct examination
1:04:26here were there any surprises In Those
1:04:29portions that are different from the
1:04:30stuff that we saw in the video that we
1:04:32did watch no uh did she act consistently
1:04:35In Those portions to what we saw here
1:04:37yes
1:04:46um you in two different sections that we
1:04:48watched you uh delved into mental health
1:04:51um questions do you remember those yes
1:04:54throughout all of your interaction with
1:04:56her both through those recorded phone
1:04:58calls and this in this interview
1:05:01um
1:05:02did
1:05:03she ever express any
1:05:06um
1:05:06history with severe mental health issues
1:05:09diseases defects anything like that she
1:05:11did not did she ever talk about sexual
1:05:15abuse that she allegedly suffered as a
1:05:17child no
1:05:19did she ever point to specific people in
1:05:23her life family that she alleged carried
1:05:26out sexual abuse against her no
1:05:29did she ever give you any descriptions
1:05:31of any commitments to hospitals no
1:05:46she appear to understand uh the gravity
1:05:49of the situation when you were talking
1:05:51with her this is a first degree murder
1:05:52charge very well in what ways were you
1:05:56able to develop that idea
1:05:59well as I said earlier she's able to see
1:06:02where different lines of questioning go
1:06:05and what would be damaging for her to
1:06:07answer truthfully
1:06:09so you know whether we're talking about
1:06:11evidence in the case or what happened to
1:06:14Gannon or her role or involvement she
1:06:17stops that line of questioning before it
1:06:19goes down something that would be
1:06:23um damning towards her in testimony
1:06:27so are you saying resisting giving more
1:06:30incriminating statements about the crime
1:06:31itself correct
1:06:33did that appear to be a calculator move
1:06:36on her part
1:06:37yes
1:06:39um throughout your entire interaction
1:06:41with her both through the consensual
1:06:43record of phone calls and this long
1:06:44interview did you ever observe her to
1:06:47change personalities no did she ever
1:06:50talk in a Spanish accent no
1:06:55did she ever demand to be called any
1:06:57other names besides uh the name that you
1:07:00knew her as no did she ever use the name
1:07:02Taylor no Jasmine no Harmony no
1:07:06Christina no little Lucia no Maria
1:07:10Sanchez no
1:07:12may I have just a moment around you may
1:07:17that's all I have I just need to
1:07:19disconnect this computer from here so
1:07:20that Mr cook has a clean Podium okay
1:07:26thank you
1:07:29and you can yeah I was going to say turn
1:07:31off the screen if you'd like
1:07:40Mr cook cross-examination thank you
1:07:56piercing good morning how are you good
1:07:58morning good thank you
1:08:03so how long did you work for the FBI
1:08:06a few months short of 25 years 25 years
1:08:09were you always in the Colorado office
1:08:11or were you like a lot of other agents
1:08:13early in your career you were in
1:08:15different states always Colorado always
1:08:17okay
1:08:20and
1:08:22at one point near the end of the
1:08:24interview Miss Stout referred to you as
1:08:28something and you corrected herself you
1:08:30corrected her and said you're a behavior
1:08:32analysis
1:08:34she said something like I'm a
1:08:36psychologist yeah and I said no I'm in
1:08:39Behavior Analysis okay
1:08:44and is that generally what you did
1:08:46throughout the majority of your career
1:08:47no okay what else were your other
1:08:51assignments and I know you already told
1:08:52Mr Allen this but
1:08:54uh I have to hear things a few times
1:08:57before they see no worries yeah so I was
1:09:00a special agent which
1:09:02and I was assigned to the criminal side
1:09:04uh for the FBI there's a terrorism side
1:09:07or counterintelligence and a criminal
1:09:09side and for my last 23 years I was a
1:09:13criminal agent for them
1:09:16so I was never a supervisor just it
1:09:19would be similar to being a detective
1:09:21for a local police department okay
1:09:25now uh you told Miss Stout during the
1:09:29interview that you had been contacted by
1:09:32the main office for the FBI and polled
1:09:36to go do this interview with her in
1:09:37South Carolina is that correct
1:09:40yes I think I told her
1:09:43I was asked by the Colorado Springs
1:09:44office to come investigate initially and
1:09:46then also to go out to South Carolina
1:09:48okay whose decision was it to uh you be
1:09:53the one that goes in and does this
1:09:55almost five hour interview
1:09:58I think it was up in the air early
1:10:00whether it would be El Paso investigator
1:10:03and myself or just myself and
1:10:07um I don't remember how it came just to
1:10:09be me but it ended up just being me okay
1:10:13and have you done a lot of these
1:10:15interviews over your career yes
1:10:29he's gonna be like nothing further
1:10:34now uh before we got into the audio
1:10:37video tape interview we were listening
1:10:39to some additional phone calls uh with
1:10:42gannon's father and missed out yes okay
1:10:47and do you recall in one of these
1:10:49interviews
1:10:54it looks like it was February 19 2020
1:10:59uh it began about 12 10 P.M
1:11:03do you recall that interview that was
1:11:05recorded
1:11:06yes briefly okay
1:11:10and were you there for that one yes okay
1:11:14do you remember at the end uh
1:11:18of that conversation
1:11:20that said Leticia said that her guess
1:11:22would be that Gannon was not in Colorado
1:11:24when asked how she knew she said quote
1:11:27because Tisha didn't hurt him didn't
1:11:30dispose of him or anything like that
1:11:31okay
1:11:33uh it goes on so Tisha was in Colorado
1:11:36with nothing and you guys have run up
1:11:38all these places where you all think I
1:11:40did or whatever you haven't filmed
1:11:42Gannon do you recall her at one point
1:11:45referring to herself as Tisha I do okay
1:11:48uh now generally somebody in that
1:11:51conversation would say I
1:11:53but in this situation she's referring to
1:11:56herself in the third person correct okay
1:12:02did you find that a little bit off
1:12:04not really okay
1:12:08well what if I started questioning you
1:12:12um
1:12:13right here instead of saying I've got a
1:12:15couple questions for you Mr grusing what
1:12:18if I said Mr cook has a couple questions
1:12:21for you Mr grusing I'm Mr cook would
1:12:24like to proceed
1:12:26would that be a little bit off
1:12:28it depends on who you are and how well I
1:12:30knew you
1:12:36so it'd be kind of strange if I was up
1:12:38here cross-examining you and I was using
1:12:41the third person to refer to myself it
1:12:43would be unusual yes
1:12:48Mr cook has some more questions yeah
1:12:50sounds good
1:12:52to help
1:12:56um
1:13:05now with respect to the Google searches
1:13:08we talked about
1:13:10um or you talked about with Leticia I
1:13:13don't like my stepson you know
1:13:16you recall those I discussing that with
1:13:18Mr Allen were you able to pull up the
1:13:21content
1:13:23that was retrieved during these searches
1:13:26or what is the scope of what information
1:13:28you were able to pull up in this
1:13:30metadata or whatever it is so yeah I was
1:13:33quite a bit removed from that we had a
1:13:35computer specialist that was looking
1:13:37into her phone and would send us
1:13:40sanitized results okay so you didn't see
1:13:44what the kickback was or that's correct
1:13:46anything you just could see the search
1:13:49okay
1:13:51and you don't know when these searches
1:13:53were made I don't okay and that's not
1:13:56because you didn't look it's just
1:13:57because that information was not saved
1:14:01yeah I was told they didn't know when a
1:14:03lot of when the uh you're talking about
1:14:05when her actual search happened on her
1:14:07phone yeah when she you know Googled in
1:14:09I don't like my stepson what do I do
1:14:12about it like if that was in 2018 or was
1:14:15it correct yeah it was no time stamp
1:14:18date was given to me for those searches
1:14:20okay so some of these searches could
1:14:22have been January 27th of 2020 and some
1:14:26of them could have been in 2018 or some
1:14:28of them could have been actually after
1:14:31January 27th right before the phone was
1:14:34seized yes okay
1:14:38are you aware of any searches coming
1:14:40back saying uh what do I do if I don't
1:14:43like my stepson and the answer being uh
1:14:45stab them 17 times bludgeon Force strike
1:14:49them four times in the head and shoot
1:14:50him in the head no
1:14:55yeah it'd be some pretty bad advice
1:14:56wasn't it wouldn't it that would not be
1:14:58good advice right
1:15:01now sometimes uh
1:15:05how many different stories did missed
1:15:07out tell I I hear at one point you said
1:15:10you were asking her on the video uh and
1:15:14told her that she's told you about seven
1:15:16different stories do you recall that
1:15:19yeah I think I was throwing out an
1:15:21approximate number okay
1:15:23and then Mr Allen asked you one time and
1:15:27he said you can't even count how many
1:15:29stories she gave
1:15:30yes because he brought up variations of
1:15:33stories which would legitimately count
1:15:35as another stories okay
1:15:37but we're not talking about an infinite
1:15:39number of stories I mean you could go
1:15:41back and right we could count them up
1:15:43yeah
1:15:46I mean there's basically there were
1:15:49you know
1:15:50between five and ten main theme stories
1:15:53were dealing that sounds correct and one
1:15:55interview something may change a little
1:15:57bit but there was five to ten main theme
1:15:59stories sounds right okay
1:16:11now
1:16:15during some of the interviews Miss Stout
1:16:18or Leticia uh
1:16:21she seemed like she made a lot of eye
1:16:23contact was pretty engaged near the
1:16:26beginning do you recall that yes okay
1:16:28and then there was a part for about 30
1:16:32minutes or so in the middle
1:16:35where she didn't even look up she hung
1:16:37her head the whole time do you recall
1:16:39that part yes and her voice was a lot
1:16:43lower you could hardly even hear do you
1:16:46recall that yes
1:16:53there's almost five hours a long time to
1:16:55be in an interview room like that
1:16:58it just depends on the situation
1:17:08what was your goal when you went into
1:17:10this interview room with Leticia
1:17:15was it to find out what Canon was was it
1:17:17to get a confession to be used to
1:17:19prosecutor later both
1:17:22I mean what was the actual game plan
1:17:24when you went in
1:17:26yeah probably both I would say primarily
1:17:28is to find what happened to Gannon and
1:17:31as she had spoken with Al on the phone
1:17:33that she had given hints or Clues and
1:17:36even if we were to get some of those
1:17:38that would be worth the five hours
1:17:42and would you say that you came away
1:17:44with this away from this interview as
1:17:46far as getting the confession and being
1:17:49able to find Gannon more or less
1:17:51empty-handed
1:17:53it went about as I expected it would
1:17:59and you weren't able to get enough
1:18:00information or any information out to be
1:18:04able to locate Gannon that's correct
1:18:25I'm gonna have just a second year on it
1:18:27okay
1:18:28now we know what he's going to do right
1:18:31usually usually can I have a second no
1:18:33further questions
1:18:37Leticia Leticia
1:18:40Leticia starch
1:18:45oh yes and yes I think that's all I have
1:18:49thank you told you every time thank you
1:18:52every time that's what he does
1:18:59yeah yeah pick up your things
1:19:07Mr Gerson you were asked about the the
1:19:10references that the defendant used third
1:19:12person to
1:19:13um say her name yes have you been around
1:19:17other people who are self-absorbed who
1:19:19also talked about themselves in the
1:19:21third person I have
1:19:23um does that indicate in your mind any
1:19:25concerns about mental health capacity
1:19:28no did that cause you any concern about
1:19:31this defendant as to her mental health
1:19:33capacity it did not
1:19:37did it indicate in your mind that she
1:19:39was exhibiting
1:19:41um a separate personality no
1:19:44or acting as a separate person no
1:19:54um you were asked about uh the the
1:19:57demeanor change of the defendant in the
1:19:59interview where in the beginning she's
1:20:01making lots of eye contact
1:20:03UM perhaps even almost
1:20:04um flirting with you uh how would you
1:20:07attribute her demeanor at the beginning
1:20:10conversational I would even say hopeful
1:20:13on her part that she might be able to
1:20:16provide me with a story that I might
1:20:18take away
1:20:20um potentially hoping to manipulate your
1:20:22involvement in an investigation leading
1:20:25yes State you can rephrase sure
1:20:28um any other indicators for you as to uh
1:20:31what she may have been trying to get
1:20:32done there
1:20:34yes as I told her throughout she was
1:20:37more concerned about what I was thinking
1:20:38than telling me what was happening and
1:20:42she continued to do that throughout the
1:20:45interview and I continued to admonish
1:20:46her to just tell me what she knew not
1:20:48what she thought I was thinking okay
1:20:53um you were asked the very end of of the
1:20:54cross-examination uh did you come out
1:20:57empty-handed in this interview
1:21:00um did you actually get useful
1:21:01information out of this interview yes
1:21:03can you tell the jury what useful
1:21:05information you got out of it
1:21:09um
1:21:10well
1:21:13Leticia continued to exhibit no concern
1:21:16for Gannon as she did in the phone calls
1:21:18without
1:21:20anytime I would try to speak with her
1:21:22about Gannon an 11 year old being
1:21:24missing however I could phrase that she
1:21:27would turn it back around to herself
1:21:30um
1:21:31even at the end she was saying about you
1:21:34know the instead of him being found it's
1:21:38her being exonerated and people would be
1:21:40sorry everything
1:21:42focused around her and that's why the
1:21:45her referencing her in the third person
1:21:47was not a surprising thing to me
1:21:50as far as coming out empty-handed uh her
1:21:54not being too her not being able to
1:21:57articulate a last image of Ganon
1:22:00was uh
1:22:02very indicative that that image was
1:22:04awful and I told her that multiple times
1:22:08so to me I I didn't come away with a
1:22:10confession but I came away with
1:22:14more of a certainty that something
1:22:16really bad it happened again and that
1:22:18she had witnessed it as as you saw I
1:22:20probably asked her 30 times maybe more
1:22:23about her last image and gave her
1:22:25multiple outs
1:22:28um and the other thing that she kept
1:22:33not wanting to accept is that this was
1:22:35an accident and normally in a case like
1:22:39this a a person who was last been with a
1:22:43loved one whether it's accident or
1:22:46something homicidal they will accept
1:22:48accident and she would not accept that
1:22:51and then um what about
1:22:54uh demonstrating her ability to recall
1:22:56were you able to develop that as well
1:23:00her ability to recall recall information
1:23:02yes anything that was
1:23:05not inculpatory towards The
1:23:09Disappearance and homicide she could
1:23:11recall easily
1:23:13dates times movements homework uh those
1:23:17sorts of things
1:23:19it was pretty easy for her to articulate
1:23:22those was it your perception that
1:23:25um she was refusing to recall data as to
1:23:28what actually happened again and yes
1:23:31was that helpful towards the
1:23:33investigation yes
1:23:36were you able to develop
1:23:38um information about her intellect her
1:23:41ability to communicate and that sort of
1:23:42thing yes and why is that helpful
1:23:44towards the investigation
1:23:48that she is a
1:23:51articulate intelligent perceptive and
1:23:55intuitive person and that also helped
1:23:59her evade law enforcement while we as a
1:24:03team were trying to find out what
1:24:04happened to Gannon while she was even
1:24:07still in Colorado
1:24:09so
1:24:11just seeing her organized thought
1:24:13patterns there and how Adept she was at
1:24:17shifting and deceiving and using some
1:24:20sort of alternative mechanism it showed
1:24:24us that
1:24:25she was able to carry out what we
1:24:27thought she was able to carry out and
1:24:29that is high again and when there were
1:24:31multiple people looking for him
1:24:34what about the um her lack of any prior
1:24:37mental health concerns was that helpful
1:24:39towards the investigation
1:24:42yes why
1:24:45um because we saw that she knew what she
1:24:48was doing and we saw that even in her
1:24:51own words
1:24:52she made this a three-day ordeal saying
1:24:55it started on Saturday it went through
1:24:57Sunday and there was all sorts of
1:24:59planning and
1:25:01premeditation involved whether it's the
1:25:03call-in to the school or using not using
1:25:07or not using her phone using gannon's
1:25:09phone
1:25:10she explained to us that this was a
1:25:13prolonged event okay thank you that's
1:25:17all I have
1:25:18do any of the jurors have any questions
1:25:20for Mr grusing
1:25:22looks like we have one just write it
1:25:24down pass it forward
1:25:26this one okay Council approach please
1:25:44oh let's see what the jury asked because
1:25:46normally their questions are even better
1:25:48than the defense
1:25:51that's right Paige Leticia is actually a
1:25:54lot like Jody areas
1:25:57in a few ways right
1:26:18we can't hear him
1:26:21judge
1:26:26maybe we're not supposed to hear him
1:26:37okay Witnesses
1:26:43he's muted
1:26:49I can't hear a thing judge you're muted
1:26:51look
1:26:55back in this case with that if I can
1:26:58have everyone ready to go at 10 35 we
1:27:00should be able to start at that time all
1:27:01rise for the jury please oh okay
1:27:26thank you
1:27:29foreign
1:27:33records should reflect the jury he has
1:27:35left the courtroom is there anything we
1:27:36need to take up outside the presence of
1:27:37the jury at this point in time what time
1:27:39did you say to come back 10 35. uh
1:27:42defense anything from defense is that
1:27:44Cellini or Mr cook another unit okay
1:27:46where it'll be in recess thank you
1:27:50okay quote in recess so now I can do
1:27:54what I wanted to do earlier which is
1:27:56finish this freaking article
1:27:58hope you can hear me
1:28:03there you go
1:28:04um welcome to all the new members and
1:28:06thank you everyone for all your stickers
1:28:08and all your support PayPal's coffees
1:28:10everything I really appreciate it
1:28:11welcome to everyone right so what we
1:28:14were looking at here was so I'm just
1:28:16going to start from the top so that we
1:28:17don't miss it so they're coming back at
1:28:1810 35 so we've got a little bit of what
1:28:20I call a tea break okay I know I drink
1:28:22coffee but you know it's a tea break in
1:28:23the courtroom there okay so the insanity
1:28:27defense Leticia is pleading Not Guilty
1:28:29by reason of insanity so that's what's
1:28:32happening in this case it's not really a
1:28:34question of if she did it or didn't do
1:28:35it it's um was she seen or not at the
1:28:37time of doing it
1:28:39so the insanity defense defined okay let
1:28:42me just zoom in a little bit for you
1:28:46the insanity defense is a criminal
1:28:49defense strategy where the defendant May
1:28:50plead Innocent by reason of insanity
1:28:52when the defendant makes an insanity
1:28:54plea they still acknowledge that they
1:28:56are involved but we're not of sound mind
1:28:57at the time of the crime the insanity
1:28:59defense is sometimes confused with
1:29:01diminished capacity a defendant or sorry
1:29:04a defense where the defendant is
1:29:05pleading to a lesser crime instead of
1:29:07removing themselves from the criminal
1:29:09act entirely unlike diminished capacity
1:29:11the insanity plea is a full defense
1:29:14against the crime meaning the accused is
1:29:17pleading not guilty
1:29:21welcome
1:29:24and yes you say grab my coffee drink I'm
1:29:26gonna get one soon too probably in the
1:29:28lunch break but anyway moving on the
1:29:30defense also falls under the excuse
1:29:32defense category instead of a
1:29:34justification defense generally an
1:29:37excuse defense utilizes an excuse to
1:29:39remove the defendant from liability from
1:29:41the crime but still acknowledges that
1:29:43the result of the actions was negative
1:29:45in other words the defendant was not
1:29:47responsible for the actions which
1:29:49resulted in harm to others
1:29:51all right man I'm just gonna say again
1:29:53Jeffrey Dahmer did not win the insanity
1:29:55plea if you don't know who Jeffrey dimer
1:29:57is he's a serial killer or he was a
1:29:59serial killer he was a cannibal I've
1:30:00written a book about him I've also
1:30:02narrated the audiobook if you want to
1:30:03have a listen or read and then John
1:30:05Wayne Gacy I also wrote a book on him
1:30:07I'm not trying to plug the books I just
1:30:08know I've studied those ones a lot
1:30:10because I'm like how in the world are
1:30:12these people not win the insanity plea
1:30:15but they they didn't you know not John
1:30:17Wayne Gacy not Ted Bundy not Jeffrey
1:30:20Dahmer
1:30:21so how is Leticia I mean they don't
1:30:24really have anything else to to go on
1:30:26the defense I mean what what there's so
1:30:28much evidence against her they already
1:30:30charged her with first degree murder on
1:30:31March 2nd 2020 and that was when this
1:30:34video that we're watching was made right
1:30:36with the interrogation but gannon's
1:30:39remains were only found by chance
1:30:41on March 17 2020 by a bridge inspector
1:30:44and those bridges at the Escambia River
1:30:46Bridge Florida the bridges only get
1:30:49inspected every two years so imagine if
1:30:51they didn't or even if they saw the
1:30:53suitcase and thought well whatever
1:30:54moving on with our day thank goodness
1:30:56they were curious they were like let's
1:30:58open it and see what this is so wow did
1:31:00they shock and horror thank you so much
1:31:02Teresa and thank you so much 877 Swiss
1:31:05Miss
1:31:06all right so the defense that I already
1:31:09read this rate yeah okay how to prove
1:31:11Insanity Insanity under the law in order
1:31:13to make an insanity Defense work the
1:31:15defense has to prove that their client
1:31:17the defendant was insane at the time of
1:31:19the crime in the legal realm insane does
1:31:21not necessarily mean the same thing as
1:31:23we might think of when hearing the term
1:31:24Senate oh sorry insanity under the law
1:31:27if someone is not guilty by reason of
1:31:28insanity they may not have been in their
1:31:30right mind when the crime was committed
1:31:32there's one mental health professional
1:31:34on Leticia Stout's third mental
1:31:36evaluation
1:31:37oh she played all the games already with
1:31:39this whole not competent to stand trial
1:31:41all of that three mental health
1:31:44investigations evaluations the third one
1:31:46said that she was in a psychotic State
1:31:48at the time of committing this crime
1:31:53right
1:31:54yeah the statistics are not good right
1:31:56uh Gene says check out statistics of
1:31:58insanity play
1:32:00very slim to none right
1:32:03so they say um in the legal realm insane
1:32:06does not necessarily mean the same thing
1:32:08as we might think of when hearing the
1:32:10term Insanity under the law if someone
1:32:12is not guilty by reason of insanity they
1:32:14may have not been in their right mind
1:32:16when the crime was committed in some
1:32:18cases this defense May refer to a severe
1:32:20episode of Mental Illness but not always
1:32:22a defendant may be considered insane if
1:32:25they were pushed into criminal activity
1:32:26by political ideology or acting out
1:32:29after a traumatic event
1:32:30proof the most crucial factor in the
1:32:32insanity defense is competency in a
1:32:35criminal case the defense must prove
1:32:37that their client is legally incompetent
1:32:39this means that the accused is incapable
1:32:41of irrational communication with the
1:32:43attorney about the crime and unable to
1:32:45comprehend the nature of the crime that
1:32:47they are accused of committing
1:32:49um
1:32:52flightless we've already heard from the
1:32:53bridge inspector that was on the
1:32:55afternoon of day three
1:32:58so that was very very hard for him so go
1:33:02check it out because I did stream that
1:33:03that's when I started streaming this
1:33:04trial was the afternoon session day
1:33:06three and around the time when the
1:33:07bridge inspector was talking we did
1:33:09opening statements and then I did a
1:33:11recap of day two and three and then by
1:33:12day three I was like oh we're going in
1:33:13we're going to do this together
1:33:16um if the judge allows an insanity
1:33:17defense to stand there may be a
1:33:19competency hearing to determine whether
1:33:20the defendant is legally incompetent
1:33:22during the hearing the defense has to
1:33:24provide evidence that their client is
1:33:26legally incompetent in addition to a
1:33:28psychological evaluation Leticia had
1:33:30three historically the threshold for
1:33:32proving competency is low meaning as
1:33:35long as the defendant is considered
1:33:36incompetent they cannot stand trial now
1:33:38you know why there was such a delay
1:33:39because they're like nope nope not yet
1:33:40not yet you know Lori Velo dabel did the
1:33:43exact same thing uh not for the
1:33:45incentive it wasn't Insanity though no
1:33:47no it was the whole not competent to
1:33:48stand trial thing she did that she's not
1:33:50pleading Insanity because you can't do
1:33:51that in Idaho Lori Velo dabel but
1:33:54Leticia can so she's going with it
1:33:57okay so in most cases the insanity
1:33:59defense is not the best course of action
1:34:02because it's difficult to prove and the
1:34:04defense strategy may not convince the
1:34:06jury uh-huh and their strategy is
1:34:08dissociative identity disorder
1:34:11which is not Insanity it's a highly
1:34:14sophisticated coping mechanism from
1:34:16severe trauma so while it can be it's a
1:34:19very rare and very terrible diagnosis
1:34:21it's not insanity
1:34:23I would argue it's the opposite of
1:34:25insanity
1:34:26Malibu Surfer thank you so much welcome
1:34:28to all the new faces in the chat as well
1:34:30I hope that you like it here I hope that
1:34:32you will subscribe hit the bell and that
1:34:33you don't miss out on future live
1:34:34streams like have a lot of cases and
1:34:36here at Grizzly True Crime we like map
1:34:38time documents snarky time bullet points
1:34:41and sometimes you see my cat Fury
1:34:44all right so types of insanity in the
1:34:46legal system case results can become
1:34:48precedent or the standard for specific
1:34:50situations there are several precedents
1:34:52for the insanity defense that affect how
1:34:54the court handles these cases and the
1:34:55outcome if the defendant is found
1:34:57legally incompetent
1:34:59now there's all these rules okay I'm not
1:35:01gonna should I read through all of them
1:35:02there's so many of them I'm just trying
1:35:04to give you a good uh idea of what we're
1:35:06dealing with take away the insanity
1:35:07defense that's what we want takeaway
1:35:09okay the insanity defense is very
1:35:10difficult to prove so many courts do not
1:35:13accept it during a criminal trial it can
1:35:15still apply to some cases but the burden
1:35:17of proof is more than a regular trial
1:35:18there have been many precedents and
1:35:20legal changes to the law regarding
1:35:22Insanity that have made it more
1:35:24inclusive and more restrictive all right
1:35:27so we've got that
1:35:28now what I want to show you is
1:35:30this that someone one of the Grizzlies
1:35:33called Wayne sent to me on email
1:35:35and he was saying this is where Leticia
1:35:38probably got her story about cash Billy
1:35:40lady now if you don't know about all of
1:35:43leticia's stories I have summarized it
1:35:45for you because I found that I actually
1:35:46have a talent of keeping track of
1:35:48people's BS
1:35:50so that's that's interesting that I've
1:35:52discovered because I can hear all of her
1:35:54BSN organize it in a way that makes
1:35:56sense so I've made a video for you where
1:35:59you can we can go over all that you know
1:36:00we went over all the characters that she
1:36:02made up meaning the Craig's the sky
1:36:04Quincy Brown Uncle Matt
1:36:07um
1:36:10the threesome lady who's called Angel
1:36:12and there's also cash Billy lady so if
1:36:15you missed that go check that out then
1:36:16you can be all caught up it's a very
1:36:19short video
1:36:21welcome welcome so in this story let me
1:36:25just check the time
1:36:26okay we've still got nine minutes in the
1:36:28story she says that when she was at the
1:36:30Petco one of her Petco stories is that
1:36:32she was in she was at the Petco in else
1:36:34truck Ganon was in the back and some
1:36:36lady who looked eight months pregnant
1:36:37really really pregnant jumped into the
1:36:40OR climbed into the passenger seat then
1:36:42she looked at her and she's like wow
1:36:43this lady looks so pregnant but wait a
1:36:45minute that's not a pregnant lady this
1:36:47lady's got a belly full of cash and she
1:36:49said that this lady uh demanded that she
1:36:52goes she forced her you why use of a
1:36:54firearm just pointing it at her right
1:36:56forced her to go into the Petco to look
1:36:58around and act normal come back out okay
1:37:00and then what she wanted her to do was
1:37:03go around to Mexican restaurants deliver
1:37:05papers in order to get packages she
1:37:08called them a Mexican money laundering
1:37:10gang and so here we know already that
1:37:13Leticia Googles okay yeah yeah I know
1:37:15Google but you know leticia's Google is
1:37:17a whole nother thing she Googled like
1:37:18she thinks it's her diary or something
1:37:20she is not a good googler Uncle Google
1:37:23does not approve of leticia's Googling
1:37:26but Quincy Brown is something that she
1:37:28Googled right someone it's someone who
1:37:30really exists Quincy Brown was a wanted
1:37:31man she's like yes yes yes that's the
1:37:33story I'm going with now cash belly lady
1:37:35Wayne sent me this one of the Grizzlies
1:37:37and said look at this because this is
1:37:38probably where she got her story okay
1:37:40this was
1:37:42um published March 1st 2019 they say
1:37:43Colorado Springs Mexican restaurants
1:37:46accused in money laundering scheme with
1:37:48ties to El Chapo and she loves to blame
1:37:51Mexicans or Puerto Ricans for everything
1:37:52right
1:37:53so a Colorado Springs Food Distribution
1:37:56Company and at least six local Mexican
1:37:58restaurants are linked to let me zoom in
1:38:01for you
1:38:02link to the um
1:38:04what so no lower cartel and drug lords
1:38:09Joaquin El Chapo Guzman Lauria and
1:38:12Ismail El Mayo Wow El Chapo and El Mayo
1:38:15okay
1:38:16um I'm surprised she didn't go with any
1:38:18of these names zambara Garcia says a
1:38:21recently released federal complaint
1:38:22providing the first evidence of cartels
1:38:24operating in Colorado Springs a cell
1:38:27phone of Jose Aguilar Martinez who
1:38:30purported to own the unregistered
1:38:32Wholesale Distributor El portocino Foods
1:38:35had significant contact with suspected
1:38:39I'm not going to say that word
1:38:41um
1:38:42YouTube will not like that word I might
1:38:45say they always blame the Mexicans yeah
1:38:47yeah Sherry papini as well oh my word
1:38:49thank you so much Ahmad
1:38:52okay
1:38:53so had significant contact with
1:38:55suspected
1:38:56uh Coca-Cola I'm just saying that okay
1:38:59just saying that read with me
1:39:00distributors in the city and in Pueblo
1:39:03and was linked to Guzman's and zambara's
1:39:05trafficking the complaint says the six
1:39:07restaurants in Al potosina which means
1:39:09the one from San Luis potoso Mexico an
1:39:12area associated with drug cartels are
1:39:14accused in the drug money laundering
1:39:16scheme in the sealed federal complaint
1:39:18filed in November a 50-page version of
1:39:21sanitize and confidential information
1:39:22was filed publicly February 22nd it
1:39:25alleges that El potosina was a front
1:39:27company used to final drug money through
1:39:29Mexican restaurants in Colorado and
1:39:31Wyoming the restaurants would buy food
1:39:33from El potosino and accept invoices for
1:39:35items that they did not order or receive
1:39:38so their checks could be cut to the
1:39:39company and Aguilar Martinez 482s in the
1:39:42US illegally the complaint said
1:39:45is not a registered business its website
1:39:48is inactive and no other wholesale
1:39:50wholesale food distributors in Colorado
1:39:53Springs we're even aware of Al
1:39:55potosino's existence or that it
1:39:57purported to compete with them the
1:39:59complaint and other records said
1:40:02authorities have seized more than 1.5
1:40:04million dollars from 15 bank accounts
1:40:06and two safety deposit boxes of the
1:40:08restaurants in Colorado Springs those
1:40:10are three Taco Star eateries there's the
1:40:12address is red taco shops and Albert
1:40:15tacos
1:40:17now do we all want tacos or what I'm
1:40:19thinking yes
1:40:20all that happened with this article is
1:40:22now we're all hungry the seventh
1:40:23restaurant with ties to Colorado Springs
1:40:25was also named in the complaint
1:40:26rodolfo's Mexican Grill is in Cheyenne
1:40:29Wyoming I hope I said that right where
1:40:31the investigation began with a
1:40:33suspicious vehicle purchase its owner
1:40:35Hilario montiano Aleman who also
1:40:38operates the local Aviva El Taco the two
1:40:41seized deposit boxes tied to Monica's
1:40:44Taco Shop contained more than eight
1:40:46hundred thousand dollars the complaint
1:40:47said authorities believe a woman
1:40:49accessing the the safe deposit boxes
1:40:52faked pregnancy see see you'll see that
1:40:55oh she got a cash belly lady from this
1:40:57story she's like oh okay so contain more
1:41:00than eight hundred thousand dollars a
1:41:01complaint said authorities believe a
1:41:02woman accessing the safe deposit boxes
1:41:04fake pregnancies to make deposits
1:41:06carrying the cash inside of a false
1:41:08belly
1:41:09thank you so much sdl Boston
1:41:13[Music]
1:41:14um
1:41:15you see that
1:41:17defendants have denied involvement in
1:41:19the scheme Guzman widely known as El
1:41:21Chapo was considered the world's most
1:41:22powerful drug lord until his Federal
1:41:24conviction this month on ten counts of
1:41:26those words those other words YouTube
1:41:29hates all these words but anyway
1:41:32drug I'm just going to say it's so hard
1:41:34to code with this okay so drug
1:41:35trafficking money laundering and use of
1:41:37a firearm in decades of grisly killings
1:41:40to further his drug Enterprise his
1:41:42Sinaloa cartel is one of the world's
1:41:44most prolific violent and Powerful drug
1:41:46cartels moving billions upon billions of
1:41:48dollars in MJ and all those other things
1:41:51is a well-known Escape Artist as well
1:41:54I'm surprised she didn't go with this
1:41:56word you know okay they're coming back
1:41:58in four minutes
1:41:59you know I Supply she didn't instead of
1:42:01iguardo say Guzman he's an only Escape
1:42:05Artist as well in 2001 he spent 2.5
1:42:07million in bribes to escape the maximum
1:42:10security Puente Grande prison in Jalisco
1:42:13Mexico in a laundry cart and in 2015 he
1:42:16crawled through an opening in a shower
1:42:17area that led to a mile long tunnel
1:42:19escaping the Maximum Security altiplano
1:42:22federal prison near Toluca Mexico
1:42:24so yeah that's all of that right they
1:42:29say the Colorado Springs restaurants
1:42:30meanwhile all remain open albertaco did
1:42:32close briefly after the fans were seized
1:42:34but it has reopened okay so we have that
1:42:37I'm going to show you another article
1:42:38when we have another break again
1:42:41uh let me just find the chord quickly
1:42:43hold on
1:42:44I've got it here there we go okay
1:42:48so
1:42:50when I re-listen to El Stark's testimony
1:42:52from day two and the morning of day
1:42:55three
1:42:57he was saying they asked him
1:42:59they asked him okay they being the
1:43:01prosecution if when they went on a
1:43:04holiday to Mexico because they traveled
1:43:05a lot as a family L Leticia and the kids
1:43:08right
1:43:09did Leticia say
1:43:12that she woke up in a tent surrounded by
1:43:15cartels
1:43:16and he's like doesn't recall that but
1:43:19that's obviously one of the stories she
1:43:21told somebody yes
1:43:23yes I think El Chapo is in prison now
1:43:27laughs
1:43:29so that's what we have okay so how long
1:43:31do we have two minutes and then Court
1:43:33comes back so I am making notes here as
1:43:35well I like how Woody decent in the chat
1:43:38said cooking it up because we'll cook I
1:43:40don't know he thinks he's like a
1:43:41comedian or something
1:43:44wow referred to himself in third person
1:43:46and everything
1:43:48it was so annoying that's the defense
1:43:50attorney Brittany said Doctor Leticia is
1:43:53the best liar said nobody ever I know
1:43:56right so yes I'm making notes of what's
1:43:58Happening Here
1:43:59um
1:44:01uh it's amazing how she said that Gannon
1:44:04was Gannon is my favorite well I think
1:44:06she said was Gannon was my favorite
1:44:07stepchild favorite favorite but if you
1:44:10listen to re-listen to Elle's testimony
1:44:11he said she was way closer to Lena he
1:44:15said undoubtedly closer to Elena
1:44:18so yes okay
1:44:21uh sorry it's just um do like this just
1:44:25waiting for the chord to come back I'm
1:44:27glad I don't have like robot mic today
1:44:31yes
1:44:34uh Veronica says Leticia the best life
1:44:36without stupid witch she really had it
1:44:39they traveled a lot she had a nice house
1:44:41they traveled a lot
1:44:43are we ready
1:44:45here we go Court will recall 20 cr1358
1:44:49people versus Leticia Stout records
1:44:51should reflect the jury's not present in
1:44:52the courtroom is there anything we need
1:44:54to pick up outside the presence of the
1:44:55drawer of the jury at this point in time
1:44:57prosecution right
1:45:01[Music]
1:45:01um
1:45:05I just looked it in their seats okay
1:45:08um let's go ahead and bring the durian
1:45:23she's eating her gel nails
1:45:54ew and she better not be zapping anybody
1:45:56we're watching her don't you zap us now
1:46:02yeah yes Janet Dido worked so hard this
1:46:06weekend all right it's a good jury
1:46:07please
1:46:16you do
1:46:18or is she going to make her space bands
1:46:20again
1:46:23look look
1:46:25time to braid that hair what a what a
1:46:27grand time to braid one's hair when the
1:46:29jury's entering the room
1:46:44okay can you guys see L stuff
1:46:48everybody okay
1:46:51I think he may all be seated
1:46:53they're in the blue recall when you see
1:46:55our one three five eight people versus
1:46:56Leticia Stout records should reflect the
1:46:58jury is not present in the courtroom
1:47:00prosecution tell you next please please
1:47:02thank you we would call special agent
1:47:04David Donati
1:47:06and while Mr donati's walking up to be
1:47:08sworn in we've already put um people's
1:47:10exhibits 281 through 289 in the witness
1:47:12stand the photographs
1:47:20another special agent Special Agent
1:47:22denying if you would raise your right
1:47:23hand please sir do you swear it from the
1:47:25test book this man will be the truth the
1:47:27whole truth and nothing but the truth I
1:47:28do go ahead and have a seat in the
1:47:30witness stand please watch your step as
1:47:31you're stepping in a stance
1:47:36good morning sir how are you good
1:47:38morning doing fine thank you good uh
1:47:40will you please introduce yourself to
1:47:42the jury and then spell your name for
1:47:43the record
1:47:44my name is David Donati spelled Diaz in
1:47:47David
1:47:48o-n-a-t-i I'm a special agent with the
1:47:51FBI how long have you been with the FBI
1:47:53uh for 12 years now what are your
1:47:56responsibilities with the FBI well I've
1:47:58worked in a lot of different places uh
1:48:00currently I work in the Minneapolis
1:48:01division doing criminal investigations
1:48:06um I started off my career in Lander
1:48:09Wyoming which is an RA or resident
1:48:11Agency on the Wind River Indian
1:48:13reservation I spent three and a half
1:48:15years there
1:48:16and then I came to Colorado Springs and
1:48:18spent about five years here what were
1:48:20the years that you were in Colorado
1:48:21Springs uh 2015
1:48:24uh probably from April 2015 to September
1:48:28of 2020. all right
1:48:32what kind of cases have you investigated
1:48:35um I've done a multitude of things
1:48:36everything mostly in the violent crime
1:48:39aspect everything from bank robberies to
1:48:42missing persons homicide investigations
1:48:46kidnappings bank robberies
1:48:49okay what kind of training do you have
1:48:52that allows you to be a FBI agent
1:48:55um to be an FBI agent you attend the new
1:48:58agent Academy which is about 20 weeks at
1:49:01quanticoke Virginia there we learn a
1:49:04series of different things everything
1:49:05from interviewing uh to collecting of
1:49:10evidence to all the other duties that a
1:49:12special agent does I've also attended
1:49:15other training during my service with
1:49:17the FBI which is uh helps you to uh
1:49:22be better at your job and continuing
1:49:24training as collecting evidence and
1:49:26interviewing people
1:49:30as it relates to the case that we're
1:49:32here for how did you become involved in
1:49:35the investigation into Gannon Stock's
1:49:37disappearance
1:49:38um early on in the investigation we were
1:49:41contacted by the El Paso County
1:49:44Sheriff's Office about a missing
1:49:47Juvenile and they asked our office to
1:49:51assist and at the time I was assigned as
1:49:53the case agent to to help with that
1:49:56assist
1:49:58did you at some point
1:50:00um
1:50:02assist removing some items from a VW
1:50:05Tiguan uh yes I believe that was on
1:50:08February 7th of 2020.
1:50:13so let's let's talk about the tiguana at
1:50:16least as far as you knew it did you
1:50:17understand that to be um associated with
1:50:19the defendant in the case yes I
1:50:21understood it to be the vehicle that uh
1:50:23was that she owned and that she drove
1:50:25what were you test um to do as as it
1:50:28relates to that particular vehicle on
1:50:30that particular vehicle
1:50:32um I was tasked to assist I had other
1:50:34people that helped me
1:50:36um collect the uh what is called the
1:50:39telematic system from the vehicle and
1:50:42that's several different components that
1:50:45has the ability to store data
1:50:48um of the vehicle while it's being
1:50:51operated
1:50:52specifically what kind of data were you
1:50:54looking for or hoping to get out of the
1:50:56telematics well every vehicle is
1:50:58different every manufacturer is
1:51:00different but we do know that these
1:51:02systems do store everything from dates
1:51:05and times to actual GPS
1:51:08coordinates and some Vehicles do also
1:51:12store things like when the vehicle was
1:51:15in motion when the vehicle was stopped
1:51:17different systems on the car running
1:51:19things like that so like I said
1:51:22depending on what that Vehicle
1:51:24Manufacturer and that data consisted of
1:51:27it can tell you a lot and some Vehicles
1:51:29it doesn't we doesn't tell you much
1:51:31what's what does that process look like
1:51:33on removing the telematics from a
1:51:36vehicle so the telematics systems can be
1:51:39stored in several different places uh
1:51:42there is items that are called the
1:51:44infotainment system uh the electronic
1:51:47control modules that store this
1:51:50information
1:51:51in this particular vehicle there were
1:51:54three different items that we were
1:51:56looking for and most of those are
1:51:57contained in the dash or under the dash
1:52:00somewhere
1:52:02um were you able to find those
1:52:03particular items for this particular
1:52:05vehicle on that February 7th date we did
1:52:07we collected three different items from
1:52:10the vehicle and that involved removing
1:52:12some sections of the dash to get to
1:52:14those
1:52:15do you yourself then analyze those
1:52:17components to get this data that you're
1:52:19looking for or hoping to get no um that
1:52:22is then um what I do is I collect those
1:52:25components as evidence
1:52:27um I entered them into our computer and
1:52:30then I put them in FedEx shipping and
1:52:32ship them to uh Virginia our
1:52:35headquarters where the experts can then
1:52:37and analyze the data okay is that what
1:52:40you did in this case I did so I want to
1:52:42direct your attention to the photographs
1:52:43that I put on the uh
1:52:45the desk there in front of you it should
1:52:47be people's exhibits 281 through 289 do
1:52:49you see those yes I do we please flip
1:52:51through those and then let me know when
1:52:53you're done looking nothing
1:53:13I'm done do you recognize those
1:53:15photographs I do what are they of
1:53:17generally so um the photographs of the
1:53:21Volkswagen Tiguan that I believe to be
1:53:24owned and driven by the defendant
1:53:27um
1:53:28it was located in the El Paso County's
1:53:31um
1:53:32vehicle Bay where they store their
1:53:34evidence
1:53:35and are those photographs fair and
1:53:37accurate representations as to what you
1:53:39saw and in the removal process of this
1:53:42infotainment Center absolutely yes
1:53:45um I actually took these photographs as
1:53:47we removed them from the vehicle all
1:53:49right you know at this time I'd move
1:53:51forward Mission and permission to
1:53:52publish 281 through 289 defense no
1:53:55objection 281 through 289 will be
1:53:58admitted we're connected back over here
1:54:00in our Direction
1:54:28in just a moment we're going to going to
1:54:29be projecting 281 up behind you and just
1:54:32as a housekeeping matter uh there should
1:54:34be a pointer there in the witness box
1:54:37and a telescoping pointer of some kind
1:54:39you can either use that to point at the
1:54:41photograph itself or you can just
1:54:43describe it by looking at the photo in
1:54:45front of you okay either one that you
1:54:47want to use so we've got 281 up behind
1:54:49you so let's look at the left side first
1:54:52that's um what looks like a shipping
1:54:54label what is that that is is exactly
1:54:58what you said it's a um
1:55:00uh FedEx shipping label where I package
1:55:03the items
1:55:05um use the FedEx computer system and
1:55:09entered the information on where I
1:55:10wanted to send it to and I believe the
1:55:13date on that was uh
1:55:15February 10th if that it's hard to see
1:55:17in the screen but it's literally
1:55:20and the it's kind of awkward the way
1:55:23that we've got
1:55:24um to do this so if you stand up and
1:55:26oops go back please if you stand up and
1:55:28are talking about what's in the
1:55:29photograph just make sure that our
1:55:31furthest jurors can hear you the
1:55:32microphone doesn't pick it up very well
1:55:34sorry about that
1:55:36um so this is the shipping label that I
1:55:37used and um I believe the date was uh
1:55:41February 10th when I shipped it out is
1:55:43it typical to um collect items and then
1:55:46ship them out a couple of days later
1:55:48uh it is
1:55:49um one I have to enter everything into
1:55:52the computer those um that document has
1:55:54to be signed by my supervisor before I
1:55:57get the numbers which are our tracking
1:55:59or evidence tracking ability so
1:56:02sometimes that takes a day or day or two
1:56:04days
1:56:05um then um then I can package it up and
1:56:08send it out for FedEx how is it stored
1:56:11in the meantime
1:56:12um our facility is a controlled storage
1:56:15or evidence collection
1:56:18um is there any opportunity for the uh
1:56:20the data that's on these devices to be
1:56:23altered or changed while you're waiting
1:56:24that shipment process ah no there's not
1:56:26okay and then on the right side of
1:56:29people's exhibit 281 uh is that the
1:56:31vehicle yes this is the 2019 uh
1:56:35Volkswagen Tiguan that I believe the
1:56:38defendant to be driving
1:56:40um was that belief based off of
1:56:41information that you have gathered
1:56:42during the course of this investigation
1:56:44it was right 282.
1:56:48what's in 282 in this picture
1:56:51um we're
1:56:52more centered on this uh
1:56:55the glove compartment area and this
1:56:58would be the information electronic
1:57:00control module that was will be removed
1:57:03it sits right here it has a kind of a
1:57:06plastic cover but the once we remove it
1:57:09I think there's another photograph of
1:57:11that when you're going through this
1:57:13process are you basically
1:57:15um just gaining access to the thing and
1:57:17then unplugging it and pulling it out
1:57:19yeah there's um
1:57:26play module there's a molding that comes
1:57:29on everybody's Dash that is uh
1:57:32popped out or removed that's usually in
1:57:34by Clips every once in a while there's a
1:57:36screw or something like that at least
1:57:39and then just so that we're
1:57:41understanding what's happening in this
1:57:42Photograph why does it appear that
1:57:44there's white powder on everything in
1:57:46there
1:57:47um this uh vehicle had gone through a
1:57:50previous
1:57:52um
1:57:53evidence collection and I built I forget
1:57:55what the name of that is but that's uh
1:57:57uh like aluminol blue star is blue star
1:58:01okay um that's used to uh
1:58:04under lights to detect evidence of other
1:58:07types of evidence like blood or other
1:58:09things like that so is is that basically
1:58:12just the residue of the blue star what
1:58:13it looks like once it dries it is okay
1:58:15yes uh 283
1:58:19and this box here uh the front is what
1:58:22you saw in the other picture would be on
1:58:24this side of the of this Silver Box
1:58:27um and then all the cables come like
1:58:29very similar to a computer component uh
1:58:32they can be unplugged and pulled out did
1:58:35you in fact unplug this unit and pull it
1:58:37out and that's one of the things that
1:58:38would shipped off to Quantico Virginia
1:58:40yes all right 284.
1:58:44and this is the item sitting on on the
1:58:46bench top just to get a better focused
1:58:48picture of same item that was in same
1:58:51item that we've just talked about okay
1:58:53perfect 285
1:58:56uh this is the um
1:58:59uh infotainment display
1:59:02this is usually on vehicles where your
1:59:05radio is seen or if you have a backup
1:59:07camera things like that so uh this this
1:59:10piece that is removed here was the
1:59:14venting above it and the piece that we
1:59:17are collecting is evidence is this
1:59:19display system you see a knob right here
1:59:21okay 286
1:59:25this is the back of that unit
1:59:28uh the face would be facing the gear
1:59:31shift right there so is that on the face
1:59:33that's sort of facing down towards the
1:59:35gear shifter is that basically that
1:59:36touch screen that's in a lot of modern
1:59:38cars exactly it's a touch screen that
1:59:40like I said uh usually allows you to
1:59:42change the radio or do the air
1:59:44conditioning a lot of other features
1:59:45some of them have mapping systems things
1:59:47like that
1:59:48287.
1:59:51um this is a little bit harder to see
1:59:53but this would be the emergency call
1:59:55module
1:59:57um it is located
1:59:59inside the dash uh behind the steering
2:00:02wheel
2:00:03you'll see a better picture when we
2:00:05actually get it out 288
2:00:08and this is that that same item the uh
2:00:11emergency call module so that comes out
2:00:14of the
2:00:15um left side of the dashboard
2:00:17um left of the steering wheel
2:00:19um it comes out of the I couldn't tell
2:00:21you exactly which side of the steering
2:00:22wheel uh from memory but yes it's it's
2:00:25the left side it's the driver's side of
2:00:27the vehicle
2:00:29um kind of back behind the steering
2:00:31wheel so you had to remove some
2:00:32components of the dash to get to it
2:00:34and then two that's should be 288 that's
2:00:37up there now so let's look at 289
2:00:40and and this is that same item on the
2:00:42table where you can see it a little bit
2:00:44better okay you can go ahead and sit
2:00:45back down
2:00:49so
2:00:51tell the jury
2:00:52um you mentioned that this will go into
2:00:54a temporary storage at your facility and
2:00:56then you will package it up to ship it
2:00:58how do you ensure that what you're
2:01:00shipping and what is received is the
2:01:02same thing
2:01:04um good question we have several ways of
2:01:06doing that we have um an Evidence
2:01:08tracking form that goes with it that
2:01:11talks about who handled that product but
2:01:14the items itself actually get packaged
2:01:17inside a box uh it gets the red evidence
2:01:21tape over the top so that during
2:01:24shipping there's anybody that would
2:01:26tamper with it that tape would be ripped
2:01:28the box would be open so we can say that
2:01:31if it gets there and that tape is secure
2:01:33that the item was not tampered with
2:01:35during shipment once an item gets
2:01:38analyzed you know what happens with the
2:01:40data that may or may not come off of
2:01:42these units when you ship them off to
2:01:44Quantico
2:01:45um whenever that evidence is finalized
2:01:48and they get some information off they
2:01:50would and send it back to us in a
2:01:53similar manner it would be packaged with
2:01:55red evidence tape and put in FedEx and
2:01:58sent back to us if there is location
2:02:01data that's included in the data that's
2:02:03pulled off of that is that made
2:02:05available to other members of the FBI to
2:02:08potentially map that information yes so
2:02:11when they pull that information off
2:02:14um
2:02:15they can send it to us that helps us
2:02:17because we're in the middle of an
2:02:19investigation and as soon as we can get
2:02:21that information it definitely helps us
2:02:23uh quicker a lot of times we get uh
2:02:26information sent via email or or
2:02:29something like that it would show us
2:02:31data points or or uh GPS coordinates
2:02:35that we could plot on a map on a
2:02:37computer system uh and overlay it with
2:02:40like something that you'd be familiar
2:02:42with is like Google Maps with different
2:02:44points plotted on it did that happen in
2:02:47this case where information came back
2:02:49from Quantico with location data for
2:02:51this particular vehicle it did it came
2:02:54back relatively quickly but that
2:02:56information is
2:02:58uh kind of raw data and they tell us
2:03:01that it's not
2:03:03um has not been certified or verified
2:03:05yet so they tell us to look at it and
2:03:08use other means to try to corroborate
2:03:11that information but I did get
2:03:14um the data points
2:03:16um
2:03:17early on in the investigation uh did you
2:03:20give that information then to special
2:03:22agent Kevin hoyland to go through that
2:03:24mapping process that you just described
2:03:26yes I did uh and you know whether that
2:03:28was successfully done or not uh yes it
2:03:31was successfully done okay you know I
2:03:33may have just a moment
2:03:36so I have
2:03:37no examination no questions your honor
2:03:40do any of the jurors have any questions
2:03:41for special agent uh Donati
2:03:46all right thank you sir you may step
2:03:47down thank you
2:03:49prosecution call you next witness please
2:03:55call a special agent Dwight falkovsky
2:03:58I'm gonna place this on the witness okay
2:04:11Senator before Mr falkovsky takes a
2:04:13stand would it be possible for defense
2:04:15tonight to approach just briefly
2:04:18oh sure
2:04:43thank you so much Sarah sunshine
2:04:46welcome to 6 300 viewers
2:04:51appreciate you being here and I tried
2:04:53yeah if you would uh raise your right
2:04:56hand Placer
2:04:58step on up in here sorry I have to get
2:05:01the spelling of his name you swear
2:05:02affirm the testimony about giving this
2:05:03men will be the truth the whole truth
2:05:05and nothing but the truth we wouldn't
2:05:07have a seat in the witness stand please
2:05:08watch your step as you're stepping in
2:05:09the stand
2:05:16good morning sir how are you good how
2:05:18are you doing good thank you will you
2:05:20please introduce yourself to our jury
2:05:21and then spell your name for the court
2:05:23reporter my name is Dwight falkovsky
2:05:26last name is spelled f-a-l-k-o-f-s-k-e
2:05:30Mr falkovsky who do you work for I work
2:05:33for the FBI what do you do for the FBI I
2:05:36worked as an automotive forensic
2:05:37specialist
2:05:38and I want to expand on that yes please
2:05:41uh so that involves taking uh parts from
2:05:44Vehicles cars that have been uh that are
2:05:47brought to us and we uh go in and find
2:05:49the data inside the vehicles and we um
2:05:52uh extract the data and then recraft it
2:05:56into a format that's human readable so
2:05:58we can find out uh stuff that the car
2:06:00has contained such as location data or
2:06:03or uh phones or devices that have been
2:06:07connected to the car and the data
2:06:08associated with those things all right
2:06:10so what kind of training allows you to
2:06:12do that job
2:06:14um I'm an electrical engineer by a
2:06:16Bachelor's of Science in it from
2:06:18Virginia Tech I have other items on my
2:06:21CV that I could put out for you for FBI
2:06:24training if you'd like sure yeah so
2:06:26let's start with that the FBI training
2:06:28okay let me pull up my CV okay
2:06:46thank you
2:06:54thank you so much with the FBI have
2:06:57taken uh Dems training that's digital
2:07:00evidence Management Systems uh digital
2:07:03evidence handling uh legal ethics
2:07:06training uh seedart mentorship and
2:07:08proficiency testing that is a
2:07:10specialized internal thing
2:07:12um a little explanation there is
2:07:14previously I worked for the FBI as a
2:07:15contractor that that allowed contractors
2:07:18to handle evidence in their facility
2:07:22um and also I have testified as an
2:07:24expert witness now twice okay
2:07:29uh how long have you uh
2:07:32you said I think an electrical engineer
2:07:34how long have you been electrical
2:07:35engineer
2:07:36um my degree was uh from Virginia Tech
2:07:40in 1992. okay
2:07:45what's your uh investigative experience
2:07:48how many different investigations have
2:07:49you been involved with
2:07:52um
2:07:53more than I can contend with at the
2:07:55moment I have an estimate on my CV like
2:07:58in one moment
2:08:03see
2:08:06I've listed over 70 devices that I've
2:08:09examined since 2018. okay
2:08:13what kind of devices have you examined
2:08:17and I'm not asking you to give us an
2:08:18exhaustive list but just a generalized
2:08:20idea of what kind of devices that you've
2:08:22worked on at in your role as an FBI
2:08:25agent okay I'll give you the primary two
2:08:26pieces that I I typically see from
2:08:28vehicles and one is the infotainment
2:08:30system which is the the center portion
2:08:33of your car that provides you with
2:08:34information about like you know if
2:08:36you're navigating or what music you're
2:08:38playing that that Hardware also another
2:08:41piece of Hardware that we pull from the
2:08:43Cars is a telematics device this is a
2:08:46piece that typically talks back to the
2:08:48corporation that's providing connected
2:08:50Services okay
2:08:52and you mentioned that you've testified
2:08:54as an expert witness what jurisdictions
2:08:56were those um expert witness testimonies
2:08:59provided in
2:09:00um both were in South Carolina okay was
2:09:04that what the uh Alex Murdock case yes
2:09:06one with the Murdoch case okay
2:09:10uh what was your assignment back in on
2:09:132020
2:09:14same same assignment as what you're
2:09:16testifying to today
2:09:18uh clarify please what was your
2:09:20assignment with the FBI in 2020 in 2020
2:09:23yes so uh 2020 I was doing the same work
2:09:27as a contractor with the FBI okay did
2:09:30you um have an occasion to work on some
2:09:32devices uh as it relates to the Ganon
2:09:35staff investigation yes
2:09:38um
2:09:40before I do that you know at this time
2:09:42I've moved to qualify this witness as an
2:09:44expert witness in automotive forensic
2:09:46specialists
2:09:48defense
2:09:57I don't have an objection that's fine
2:09:58all right the witness will be so
2:10:00qualified go ahead
2:10:01so as it relates to the devices that you
2:10:04examined in this case what devices did
2:10:06you look at
2:10:07uh there were four pieces that I
2:10:09examined
2:10:10um and I have
2:10:14um
2:10:15I don't have the list of them in front
2:10:16of me but they report four pieces from
2:10:18the vehicle I knew that some pieces that
2:10:20we had worked on uh were not valuable in
2:10:24extracting data from and but there were
2:10:27one in particular the
2:10:30infotainment system from that car was
2:10:33probably the primary one we looked at
2:10:35okay when you say four pieces does that
2:10:37mean that
2:10:39um one of the modules had an SD card in
2:10:42it or something like that that expanded
2:10:44it out to four
2:10:45no okay the four physical pieces and it
2:10:49should be listed in the hardware list of
2:10:51or on the um
2:10:52in the evidence that I provided the
2:10:55digital evident derivative evidence
2:10:56there are four listings there and it
2:10:58shows explicitly on each piece uh what
2:11:01was provided and includes pictures okay
2:11:03and then as it relates to um your work
2:11:06did you have two different efforts uh
2:11:08towards gathering this information one
2:11:10that was an initial uh uncertified
2:11:13basically resulted in a second that was
2:11:16uh more in-depth yes so I'll go ahead
2:11:18and explain
2:11:19um the situation around that if that's
2:11:21okay yes so it came to us initially as
2:11:25an active search for a missing child and
2:11:29in which case we prioritize something
2:11:31like that and put it you know we're
2:11:33working on that now and so when we
2:11:35initially got the pieces in it was from
2:11:37a vehicle that we had not previously
2:11:40looked at so we had no idea of what it
2:11:43might contain or the data in it so we um
2:11:47provided a very fast analysis on the
2:11:50system at that point and was able to
2:11:52extract location data out of that
2:11:54vehicle
2:11:56um
2:11:56but then
2:11:58part of our standard process is when we
2:12:01develop tools to get data off of
2:12:03vehicles we have to validate them later
2:12:05which requires a much more exhaustive
2:12:08effort to show that the data that we're
2:12:10putting on a system is exactly what
2:12:12we're getting off so when I say this
2:12:14data point represents the vehicle in
2:12:17this location that that is accurate so
2:12:19it took us an additional approximate
2:12:22year or so to
2:12:24finish that validation process okay
2:12:28so when you have that initial effort
2:12:30that you get that unvalidated data what
2:12:32did you do with it that unvalidated data
2:12:35we provided it as preliminary data back
2:12:38to the field okay and then that
2:12:41secondary effort that you mentioned uh
2:12:44was roughly a year down the road from
2:12:46that first effort uh was that data did
2:12:48it did that
2:12:50um
2:12:51basically validate all the data
2:12:53including the data that you had sent the
2:12:55first time
2:12:55that's correct and they were also
2:12:58um in I believe there was a a little bit
2:13:01of additional data provided as we found
2:13:03more data on the system over time okay
2:13:05was there any discrepancy in the data
2:13:07and what I mean by that is that uh the
2:13:10initial data that you provided early on
2:13:13um
2:13:14was any of that data that you provided
2:13:16to the investigation proven wrong based
2:13:18on the secondary uh release of data no
2:13:20that data proved accurate okay
2:13:25so when we're talking about the item
2:13:27that uh was given fruitful information
2:13:30towards this investigation what was that
2:13:32particular device
2:13:34uh the head unit there was four devices
2:13:36I believe it's the item that ends with
2:13:38o4 is that
2:13:40well you're the expert I can't okay I
2:13:43don't know where it came from all I know
2:13:45is it magically appears
2:13:49all right give me a moment let me pull
2:13:51up some records and so I can find what
2:13:53we're looking for
2:13:55okay I do have the list here okay um so
2:13:58you want me to go through all four
2:14:00pieces or just this one well so let me
2:14:02ask you just a clarifying question
2:14:03before before we go on that path did you
2:14:06look at all of the items that you
2:14:08received from Colorado Springs
2:14:10uh to see if there was going to be any
2:14:13useful information on all of them yes we
2:14:15evaluated each piece and then through
2:14:17that evaluation did you determine based
2:14:19on what you've already said that only
2:14:20one was going to provide any useful
2:14:22location data that's correct okay so
2:14:25let's talk about that one then okay what
2:14:27particular item
2:14:29um are we talking about that provided
2:14:30useful location data for this
2:14:32investigation okay it was an
2:14:35um the information ECM that's electronic
2:14:38control module uh basically the the head
2:14:41unit that I explained before but my 2019
2:14:44Volkswagen Tiguan
2:14:47who did you receive these items from
2:14:48take one from our um internal evidence
2:14:52control facility okay but when you get
2:14:54it from your internal evidence control
2:14:56facility um can you tell like what case
2:14:59it's being sent from the case number is
2:15:01with it yes okay uh and can you verify
2:15:03that it belongs to a Volkswagen T1 that
2:15:06was seized in Colorado Springs as
2:15:07opposed to let's say Seattle Washington
2:15:09yes we have a chain of evidence
2:15:12maintained in the digital evidence
2:15:14management system and the information
2:15:16that we're talking about here was that
2:15:18in relation to this specific case that
2:15:20we're having you testify on all right
2:15:22I'm sorry say one more time the the
2:15:24evidence that we're talking about here
2:15:26the location data that you were able to
2:15:28pull
2:15:29um can you verify that that information
2:15:30relates to our case that you're
2:15:32testifying in today yes okay
2:15:35so tell the jury how do you get the
2:15:38information off of this electronic
2:15:40control module head unit you want to go
2:15:42into specifics yeah Call of Duty how
2:15:44that works
2:15:46I'm going to pull out my notes from that
2:15:49yes Angela Tiguan watch the short if you
2:15:52guys haven't seen it take one
2:16:02okay uh when I'm processing the evidence
2:16:04this is what we did to this particular
2:16:05piece of evidence first uh labeled the
2:16:08evidence with the evidence item number
2:16:10and uh took photographs of it in its
2:16:12state as received then we disassembled
2:16:15assessment the specimen remove the
2:16:18circuit boards and removed some of the
2:16:20memory flash chips from the from the uh
2:16:23the circuit board that was inside
2:16:26oh
2:16:27and from The Flash chips uh then we were
2:16:30able to read those flash chips using a
2:16:33tool so that we would have a what was a
2:16:36binary image provided that represents
2:16:38the data that was inside those flash
2:16:40chips now that data is in a digital
2:16:43format readable by computers and not
2:16:45necessarily understandable by humans and
2:16:47so this is where our processes continue
2:16:50um so let me break in there just so that
2:16:52we're understanding okay when you say
2:16:54that you pull a chip off and then you
2:16:56read it you mean that you're physically
2:16:59looking at it and reading information
2:17:00off yeah we have specialized tools that
2:17:02access the chip and can read the chip in
2:17:05its uh
2:17:07proper protocols to be able to extract
2:17:09pull the data off correctly and were you
2:17:11able to successfully do that in this
2:17:13particular case yes for two chips for
2:17:15two chips off of this electronic control
2:17:17module uh circuit board that's correct
2:17:20okay
2:17:22um do you then look at the data before
2:17:24you send it back to the investigative
2:17:27arm or or area yes so this case at this
2:17:31point in the stage you've only got a
2:17:32binary image with no understanding of
2:17:34what is the data means and so there was
2:17:37processing performed at this point so
2:17:39tell us about the processing okay so
2:17:42part of this is we were able to
2:17:45extract file logical file systems from
2:17:48the image and from The Logical file
2:17:50systems we combed the the files that we
2:17:53found for information that might be
2:17:55related to location of the vehicle
2:17:58because I was stated as an item of
2:18:00Interest
2:18:02um and from that we found
2:18:06a moment
2:18:11we quickly found that there was um some
2:18:14location data available in some computer
2:18:16logs that were on there in a textual
2:18:18format that were very easy to access
2:18:20which allowed us to
2:18:22quickly within one day write a uh a
2:18:26parsing tool that would go out and pull
2:18:28that data from those logs
2:18:30and that data was represented with with
2:18:32coordinates and time stamps
2:18:35and when you say coordinates do you mean
2:18:36like GPS coordinates yeah geocoordinates
2:18:39geo coordinates yeah uh when you get
2:18:41those geo coordinates out of that log
2:18:44that you're describing what do you do
2:18:46with it
2:18:47um so we compare it into a format that
2:18:50is usable as for us as humans I can give
2:18:52you a coordinate but then you don't even
2:18:54have to go out and type those
2:18:55coordinates into the thing like Google
2:18:57Earth to make to be able to see them so
2:18:59we take that and provide
2:19:02um the parser takes the information and
2:19:05puts it into a file that you can just
2:19:07throw into Google Earth it's called the
2:19:09KML file and that file will
2:19:13um automatically populate the locations
2:19:15and times of the vehicle on a map okay
2:19:19um so did you what how do you get that
2:19:22information back to the originating
2:19:25um investigative region
2:19:28um
2:19:30so in this case we
2:19:32um
2:19:33we also provided a
2:19:35which we because of the nature of the
2:19:38search we went ahead and looked at some
2:19:40of the data provided a PDF as well along
2:19:42with the KML file to say here's
2:19:45here's some points of interest you may
2:19:47want to go look at
2:19:49and that was
2:19:53interesting which method was provided
2:19:56back it was provided back to the field I
2:19:58believe that was over electronic
2:20:00communication okay do you know who you
2:20:02provided it to
2:20:08so I wrote down here the case agent
2:20:10which I guess at the time that might
2:20:12have been the naughty okay so special
2:20:14agent David Donati yes okay
2:20:16what day did you provide that to you and
2:20:18do you have that information I have a
2:20:19date that I had the review
2:20:22um
2:20:26uh February 12 2020. okay
2:20:31and then is it common for field agents
2:20:35to then potentially give that
2:20:36information to other potential experts
2:20:39FBI or not FBI to then do some sort of
2:20:42mapping with this data that you're
2:20:43providing absolutely it's their call
2:20:45what they do with the data okay the um
2:20:48should be up there on the desk with you
2:20:50I put the exhibit envelope should be
2:20:53people's exhibits 291 do you see that
2:20:55this thing yep okay you see that
2:20:59uh do you recognize it
2:21:02was there something inside I need to
2:21:04look at
2:21:04well
2:21:06um do you recognize it or not I do not
2:21:08okay uh do you remember
2:21:11um did you put the information on some
2:21:12sort of a card or SD card or something
2:21:15like that I put on an SD card yes okay
2:21:17the information that was contained in
2:21:19that SD card uh was that provided back
2:21:22to the field to special agent David
2:21:24Donati that was provided um yes at a
2:21:27later time okay how was that provided to
2:21:29him okay so that um I think as I was
2:21:33speaking earlier we had about a year's
2:21:35time pass where we provided the
2:21:37validation of the data so when we were
2:21:39when our evaluation of the whole process
2:21:43was complete to our satisfaction then we
2:21:46provided this evidence uh in totality
2:21:49and in confidence uh back to the field
2:21:51through
2:21:52um the SD card okay and so what we have
2:21:55in people's exhibit 291 is that the
2:21:58information that you provided back to
2:22:00the field
2:22:01um based on your extraction of the data
2:22:03from those modules see it says SD card
2:22:06but I don't see the SD card here so okay
2:22:09so do you remember
2:22:12um prior to you getting on the stand me
2:22:13asking if you'd had a chance to look at
2:22:15this item or I looked at the SD card and
2:22:18I initialed the SD card it's that not
2:22:20available okay so that should be in that
2:22:22envelope in the envelope okay I just
2:22:23wanted to check there should be some
2:22:24scissors there to your left okay
2:22:27I will open the focus
2:22:42there we go is that what you looked at
2:22:44that is what I looked at this is this is
2:22:46the evidence we provided all right I
2:22:48would did not recognize the package it
2:22:49was in okay so uh is that the same SD
2:22:52card that was provided in this
2:22:53investigation that contained that
2:22:55location data that you sent back to the
2:22:57field investigator special agent David
2:22:59Donati yes is it fair and accurate
2:23:02representation of that data that you
2:23:04recovered from that electronic control
2:23:06module back on February 12th of 2020.
2:23:09yes I verified it just shortly before
2:23:11this meeting
2:23:12um you're at this time to move forward
2:23:13mission of people's exhibit 291. defense
2:23:18and I asked just for dear a couple
2:23:20questions on authenticity
2:23:23go ahead yes
2:23:25uh special agent hi good morning uh just
2:23:30quickly
2:23:32this SD card information you have is
2:23:36this the verified stuff that came a year
2:23:39approximately a year after February
2:23:402020. that's correct okay this isn't the
2:23:43initial this is not the preliminary data
2:23:45okay
2:23:46it does include
2:23:48the preliminary data that we provided at
2:23:51that time as well okay and how is the
2:23:54preliminary data different from the
2:23:56final data that you got at
2:23:59um a year later
2:24:01so the preliminary data
2:24:03um
2:24:04was what we initially found during a
2:24:07compressed timeline to try to locate a
2:24:10missing child and
2:24:13later on proved to be accurate in its
2:24:15totality there were some potential
2:24:18additions to the data as we continued to
2:24:21process it over that year okay were
2:24:24there any uh discrepancies or
2:24:27inconsistencies between the preliminary
2:24:29data and the final data that was
2:24:32published or released a year later no
2:24:34okay your honor I don't have an
2:24:36objection right exhibit 291 will be
2:24:39admitted Mr Allen go ahead and that was
2:24:43the uh some of my questions John
2:24:46cross-examination Mr cook no your honor
2:24:49do any of the jurors have any questions
2:24:52for uh agent kalkovsky
2:24:56no all right thank you sir you may step
2:24:58down thank you
2:25:04it is in the envelope but it's not
2:25:06sealed
2:25:07here's
2:25:17Council approached for a moment
2:25:37I was also hiding behind my tissues
2:25:40everyone mm-hmm black tissue ladies and
2:25:43gentlemen uh trials are sort of a dicey
2:25:46business sometimes Witnesses go faster
2:25:48than you think and sometimes they take
2:25:49longer than what you think the good news
2:25:51and the bad news here is the same which
2:25:53is uh these Witnesses are going a little
2:25:56bit faster which means that there's
2:25:58about 45 minutes that we would normally
2:26:00use that we're not going to so what that
2:26:02means is that you're going to have a
2:26:03longer lunch we will have all of these
2:26:06Witnesses coming in at 1 30 so if you
2:26:08can come back or be back in the Jury
2:26:11Room at 1 30 and be ready to proceed at
2:26:12that point in time we should be able to
2:26:15start on time again do not discuss the
2:26:17case among yourself do not discuss the
2:26:19case with anyone else do not do your own
2:26:21independent research about any aspect of
2:26:23your case with that I'll rise for the
2:26:25jury please
2:26:27thank you
2:26:45devil woman's like no
2:26:48no
2:26:48what are you guys saying no for you know
2:26:51I'll keep you entertained over here
2:26:55but it is a long time
2:26:58it's two hours either what you may all
2:27:00be seated records should reflect the
2:27:01jury has left the courtroom is there
2:27:03anything we need to take up outside the
2:27:05presence of the jury at this point in
2:27:06time prosecution just to expand a little
2:27:08bit on that issue as far as Witnesses
2:27:12um
2:27:15just looking my head a little bit
2:27:21so we've got two witnesses scheduled
2:27:24um to finish out today judge their local
2:27:26Witnesses and then
2:27:29um our next Witnesses are
2:27:31I think not available until tomorrow
2:27:33morning we have three Witnesses lined up
2:27:35for tomorrow morning uh one of which is
2:27:38Dr Grimmett who now lives in Hawaii I
2:27:40think flew in maybe
2:27:44okay she flew in at 6 a.m this morning
2:27:46uh special agent Kevin hoyland from the
2:27:49FBI is from the East Coast uh he's
2:27:51actually flying in today I'm not sure
2:27:53exactly what time he gets in and then Dr
2:27:56Moore from uh the jail is where she used
2:27:58to work she does no longer work so I
2:28:00don't believe is that right she's in
2:28:01Kansas City she lives in Kansas now okay
2:28:04and
2:28:05just along those same lines we've got
2:28:07what appears to be
2:28:12sevenish Witnesses left judge okay
2:28:15okay well we have some holes or some
2:28:18gaps here and there I mean you guys have
2:28:19done a good job in being efficient and
2:28:23moving things along so I think we're
2:28:25ahead of schedule and I understand when
2:28:26we get towards the end of trial that's
2:28:28usually where the
2:28:29holes start to appear because you've got
2:28:31a limited number of witnesses that
2:28:33you're trying to get into rearrange and
2:28:36schedule so I get that yeah
2:28:38um is
2:28:42Dr Grimmett
2:28:43the one the only one that you're going
2:28:45to call from cmhip or no
2:28:49um forez is also from cmhip and you're
2:28:53I'm gonna call her I believe so Josh
2:28:54okay yep okay all right and then just
2:28:57for scheduling your
2:28:59um they thought about bringing Dr Lewis
2:29:01into testify on Friday but based on the
2:29:03district attorney
2:29:05they're going to be done before then
2:29:07we've pitched you back flying in this
2:29:09weekend
2:29:10maybe they should be testified on Monday
2:29:12okay so it's possible that Friday maybe
2:29:15Friday afternoon
2:29:18but I don't know we can we can talk
2:29:20about jury instructions see where we are
2:29:22then we ought to have some idea we ought
2:29:24to be pretty close because it sounds to
2:29:26me like
2:29:27most likely will be done sometime next
2:29:30week
2:29:32that's fair yes I would say that's very
2:29:34fair okay so we can talk about jury
2:29:37instructions on Friday and see where we
2:29:39are uh they look to be in pretty good
2:29:42shape frankly
2:29:43um
2:29:45Mr tillini can you get me a
2:29:47um
2:29:49theory of Defense by Friday sure yeah
2:29:53Thursday yeah kind of cruise through
2:29:56them but I haven't looked at them sure
2:29:57that police all have any defense
2:29:59instructions or any other construction
2:30:01defense by Friday yeah just give me some
2:30:04ideas so that okay
2:30:06um okay then we will see everybody at uh
2:30:101 30 this afternoon thank you all right
2:30:18okay so I just quickly gotta adjust
2:30:21myself
2:30:23um don't worry we've always got lots to
2:30:25talk about
2:30:26just give me one second we do it like
2:30:28this this
2:30:33and I grow
2:30:39okay can you hear me can you see me I'm
2:30:43Gonna Leave This webinar because Dorian
2:30:45we're only going coming back in two
2:30:47hours and 10 minutes that is a pretty
2:30:50damn long lunch break but I mean
2:30:54it's it's pretty cool so let's go over
2:30:56what we heard so far okay
2:30:58that's what we do here I make notes and
2:31:00then
2:31:02um we go over them and we can also go
2:31:05over another article that I want to show
2:31:06you and I wonder if you saw my
2:31:09summary of map time because we could do
2:31:13that again
2:31:14um so anyway okay
2:31:16we saw the last bit of special FBI
2:31:20special agent Gru sings
2:31:22interrogation is what I call it okay
2:31:27um
2:31:27with Leticia on March that was from
2:31:30March 2nd
2:31:312020. when she was arrested
2:31:34in Myrtle Beach when she dropped Harley
2:31:36off at a recruitment station for the
2:31:40Army
2:31:41they swooped in and arrested Latisha now
2:31:45you can hear from all this evidence even
2:31:46from that Tiguan that
2:31:49yeah they had a lot of data on her
2:31:51already and tracking her movements and
2:31:54do we need map time I feel like we do
2:31:56otherwise you guys
2:31:57um hold on one second please
2:32:00I'm just going to type this in quickly
2:32:03okay
2:32:05make it bigger yes okay we're gonna go
2:32:07there because
2:32:10I just want to show you where she went
2:32:12to drop off
2:32:13um that wooden board
2:32:16and ganon's remains first she moved him
2:32:18around a lot
2:32:20which is just wow
2:32:22yes there we go okay
2:32:24so
2:32:25yeah Tiguan maybe I should show you guys
2:32:27that in case you haven't seen it so just
2:32:28hold on one second
2:32:30I want to just show you something
2:32:31quickly then we're going to do some map
2:32:32time then we're going to go over these
2:32:34notes and combine it all
2:32:35and it's going to be great
2:32:37okay so if you go here
2:32:40to my channel
2:32:43okay here's my channel
2:32:45and you go to shorts that's where I do
2:32:48lots of little updates I hope you can
2:32:49hear me sorry my mic's a little bit far
2:32:51away my bad
2:32:52all right so just so that anyone who
2:32:55missed it if you're joining the stream
2:32:55now the Court's only going to be back in
2:32:57two hours and 10 minutes but we will
2:32:59take a little break at some point but
2:33:01for now I'm going to be talking your
2:33:02head off okay
2:33:04um Sarah I'm going to answer this
2:33:05question quickly it's the most direct
2:33:07way to support me no middleman YouTube
2:33:09takes 50 patreon takes 10
2:33:13um and PayPal doesn't take anything so
2:33:15it's really cool okay so yeah take one
2:33:17you have to first see this so we can
2:33:18reference it so Tiguan you see here the
2:33:21short look look at this
2:33:36it's not a difficult thing
2:33:39like right but if you track thing where
2:33:42your team look at where that sounds
2:33:45[Music]
2:33:49backwards so now I might need one but I
2:33:53was driving a truck let me see one and
2:33:56now I mean next and you tried on the
2:33:58rental car but then
2:34:00no you had three different cars I didn't
2:34:03even get to drive it
2:34:05foreign
2:34:21[Music]
2:34:30she was so shocked that they're like
2:34:32wait why are they talking about my
2:34:33Tiguan Tiguan okay I really hope that
2:34:37this uh little intro that I play for you
2:34:40doesn't double play sometimes it does it
2:34:42I don't know why it does it but let's
2:34:43see let's let's play the song let's see
2:34:45how it goes
2:34:49[Music]
2:35:01oh
2:35:11okay I hope it was okay it was a black
2:35:14TIG one yes so what Leticia did this is
2:35:17map time by the way if you're brand new
2:35:18to the channel we love map time over
2:35:19here so that we can visualize I don't
2:35:21know most of us are visual Learners I
2:35:23feel I'm one so it helps me to see what
2:35:27the hell happened so that we can
2:35:28understand
2:35:30someone's movements especially like
2:35:32Leticia that also has helped me to keep
2:35:33track of all those stories and
2:35:34characters because if you combine it
2:35:36with a map you're like ah okay I see
2:35:38what happened there okay so 6627 Mandan
2:35:42Drive is where Gannon Stark was murdered
2:35:44on January 27 2020 in his bedroom so
2:35:48there was surveillance footage of him
2:35:50going to else truck and Leticia going
2:35:53back and forth in the house and then
2:35:55getting in the truck and then driving
2:35:55off she says they went to Dunkin Donuts
2:35:58and they went to Petco and all of that
2:35:59right but that was in Elle's truck okay
2:36:02so there was a whole loop around which
2:36:04we've gone over before so check out that
2:36:07summary video I made for you and then
2:36:10they went back home and got home just
2:36:12after 2 p.m at 2 14 p.m okay and while
2:36:15we didn't see Ganon get out of the truck
2:36:17from the quality of surveillance that we
2:36:20have because
2:36:22um the neighbor had filmed it on his
2:36:24phone he put it on his TV and filmed it
2:36:26so that's what we have you know even if
2:36:28you brighten it and stuff it's really
2:36:29hard to see but he either got out on the
2:36:31other side or Leticia carried him out
2:36:33from the other side I'm not sure there's
2:36:34a shadow somewhere okay but I can't see
2:36:36it I'm just saying so I've linked it
2:36:38many times for you to check out yourself
2:36:40but anyway they got home
2:36:42um at quarter past two in the afternoon
2:36:43on January 27 2020 and the probable
2:36:46cause affidavit says Ganon was murdered
2:36:48in his bedroom
2:36:49that afternoon Lena came home from
2:36:52school at around 3 30. Leticia said you
2:36:54stay outside or you go outside again and
2:36:56she said ganon's in my room he doesn't
2:36:58feel well so you can't see him you go
2:37:01outside and ride your bike so Elena was
2:37:03outside she was eight years old at the
2:37:05time just walking up and down the
2:37:07sidewalk and Harley knocked off from
2:37:09work at half past four Leticia in that
2:37:10time from what everything we know now
2:37:12was cleaning up Gannon style was in
2:37:15trigger warning okay
2:37:17trigger warning Gannon stop was um he
2:37:20suffered many injuries four lacerations
2:37:22on his head from blunt force trauma he
2:37:25was
2:37:26um stabbed 18 times there were 18
2:37:28sharp force injuries so we still don't
2:37:30know with what exactly you know whether
2:37:32it's a knife or a box cutter or I don't
2:37:34know what it is and he was also shot at
2:37:37three times and one of the bullets hit
2:37:39him
2:37:40um in his jaw and lodged in the back of
2:37:42his head so it's total total Overkill
2:37:44and then let's not forget also her
2:37:46talking about the foot injury the burns
2:37:48and we heard him on audio say I'm just
2:37:51worried about my Burns so that's really
2:37:54sad and really scary
2:37:56and so what happened was that afternoon
2:37:59January 27 2020 Leticia phones 911 at 6
2:38:0455 pm and she reports Ganon as a runaway
2:38:07of course we've heard all the stories
2:38:09later saying you know
2:38:11he wasn't on runaway iguardo was there
2:38:13then it became Quincy Brown and Uncle
2:38:15Matt and all these other stories someone
2:38:17essayed her and they demanded a suitcase
2:38:21and then took Ganon as well so it became
2:38:22an abduction story which is still from
2:38:25what we see up to now everything she's
2:38:26been telling the authorities yeah she's
2:38:28sticking with that
2:38:29okay
2:38:31so
2:38:33interesting
2:38:35um so
2:38:36that was January 27 2020. now
2:38:41I don't know what she did with Ganon on
2:38:42January 27th 2020 but she'd phoned Al
2:38:45and L was going to come back the next
2:38:47day so you know that's a Sinister
2:38:49thought
2:38:51does she put him in a suitcase that day
2:38:54and then keep him aware that's a scary
2:38:56one but on January 28th she went and
2:38:59picked Al up from the airport
2:39:01Colorado Springs Airport and that's
2:39:05where the Tiguan comes into play okay
2:39:08so first driving Al's truck up and down
2:39:10then
2:39:11Tiguan okay Tiguan January 28th 2020.
2:39:16she picks Ella from the airport but not
2:39:18in the tip she drives or Tiguan there
2:39:20with the suitcase in the back and a
2:39:22wooden plank
2:39:23like a wooden board that had ganon's
2:39:25blood on it now I don't know if that was
2:39:27just to put the suitcase on to prevent
2:39:29blood going from in the car you know or
2:39:30if she'd done something again and with
2:39:32the board or if she used it as a ramp
2:39:34for the suitcase I'm not too sure but
2:39:37she drove her to going to the airport
2:39:39left it there and rented a Kia Rio she
2:39:42then picked up Al with his Kia Rio and
2:39:45he was like why are you in a rental car
2:39:47and she said she doesn't want to put
2:39:49mileage on her leased vehicle so they go
2:39:52back in the rental car to 6627 Mandan
2:39:54Drive on that same day the T-shirt takes
2:39:57the hood that rental car drives back to
2:40:00the airport Parks it in the short-term
2:40:02parking in my mind I visualize it like
2:40:04next to you like Tiguan a rental car but
2:40:07she doesn't hand the rental car back
2:40:09okay she's still got the keys she's
2:40:10still renting it and paying for it so
2:40:12she she then switches Vehicles so she
2:40:15gets out of the rental car into the
2:40:16Tiguan now the Tiguan goes from Colorado
2:40:19Springs airport with ganon's remains in
2:40:22the back and she drives all the way up
2:40:24here to what they said in the second
2:40:27week of the trial one five two nine one
2:40:30South Perry Park Road we've seen
2:40:32pictures of the area that was blocked in
2:40:34last week
2:40:35um
2:40:36last week's Witnesses we've seen
2:40:38pictures of the area we've seen pictures
2:40:40of the board
2:40:41and her Google searches said can I spray
2:40:44paint wood so I would think it's got to
2:40:47do with that board that wooden board Al
2:40:49did a lot of Woodwork in the garage so
2:40:51that's where she got it from
2:40:56I'm just checking um yes he was in a
2:40:58nourish the Unicorn says he was in a
2:41:00suitcase in the back of her tigone she
2:41:01left it in the short-term parking so I
2:41:02hope it all makes sense yes so she
2:41:05drives a Tiguan Tiguan okay to this area
2:41:09and drops off the board and also the
2:41:12suitcase with ganon's remains in and
2:41:15then she drives back but not to the
2:41:17airport she leaves that rental vehicle
2:41:19there she she makes her way back home
2:41:22towards home and tells Harley her 17
2:41:24year old daughter at the time meet me
2:41:26outside your work which is Massage Envy
2:41:30okay meet me there we're going to stay
2:41:32at a hotel for the night so
2:41:35we've done extensive metal monitors on
2:41:37this route okay so she goes and meets
2:41:40Harley
2:41:41at Massage Envy when she gets there she
2:41:44Parks the tig one she says to Hardy
2:41:45let's go in your car the Jetta a VW
2:41:48Jetta to the house to 6627 Mandan Drive
2:41:51and let's go get some clothes so
2:41:53Harley's like okay so they go in her
2:41:55Jetta they go get some clothes they go
2:41:57back to the hotel January 28th 2020 okay
2:42:01so there they are take ones parked VW
2:42:03Jetta parked
2:42:05the following day
2:42:07Leticia
2:42:09takes her TIG one
2:42:12no no no no no you know what else I've
2:42:13figured out okay the following day it
2:42:15was in the summary video the following
2:42:16day Tiguan and VW jetters parked there
2:42:19because Holly said she went to the
2:42:21airport that's the one thing I was still
2:42:22trying to figure out like what so what
2:42:23they did was get in Harley's Jetta and
2:42:26drive to the Colorado Springs Airport
2:42:28just to drop off the keys to that rental
2:42:31when she dropped off the keys the rental
2:42:34place was like
2:42:36well where's the vehicle and she's like
2:42:37oh it's in short-term parking gotta go
2:42:39so she didn't drop it off like one
2:42:42normally would I don't know why the
2:42:43company just allowed it it's not their
2:42:45fault I'm just saying
2:42:46I wonder if they weren't like upset with
2:42:48her or if Leticia just chucked the keys
2:42:50and like gotta go but then
2:42:53dropped off the keys rode back with
2:42:55Harley to the Massage Envy area Harley
2:42:58went to work and there we go Leticia
2:43:01took her Tiguan that was now on January
2:43:0429th thank you JD
2:43:07okay
2:43:09she took a Tiguan and then had it washed
2:43:11and only after that did she go and meet
2:43:13the police she was two hours late
2:43:16remember that they kept trying to get
2:43:18hold of her and be like where the hell
2:43:19are you and they want to meet with her
2:43:20and ask about Gannon and she was just
2:43:22all over the place they weren't sure
2:43:23they said she's very hard to track now
2:43:26today's Witnesses are very important
2:43:28because they are going over the data as
2:43:31they say the infotainment and all the
2:43:34data analysis for this TIG one because
2:43:37it will prove that she drove from the
2:43:40Colorado from home to the Colorado
2:43:41Springs Airport and at what time it will
2:43:44prove that she then drove from there to
2:43:46this area and guess what she drove back
2:43:49there okay she went back there to pick
2:43:52up gannon's remains when she got her
2:43:55aunt and her brother to come through
2:43:58from South Carolina and help her rent a
2:44:01van
2:44:03oh my word she rented a van they rented
2:44:06a van
2:44:08and then she had gone back there to
2:44:10fetch gannon's remains put it in the van
2:44:13and off she went to Florida
2:44:16she discarded afghanin's remains on
2:44:18February 4th of the scumbia river bridge
2:44:20in Florida
2:44:21thank you so much Tina
2:44:24on February 4th so think about that
2:44:27because that tells you
2:44:30um how long it took
2:44:32it's not actually that long but still on
2:44:34February 4th she discarded of his
2:44:36remains and she thought that's it you
2:44:38know Gator Country we're done
2:44:41Gator Hood basically she's like Chuck
2:44:44the bag off the bridge and she's she's
2:44:46done
2:44:47wow and we heard Harley's testimony of
2:44:49that long drive all the way from
2:44:51Colorado to
2:44:52um
2:44:53south to Myrtle Beach South Carolina
2:44:56and how Leticia said you may not like
2:44:58basically let's just don't do anything
2:45:01with the back don't open the back we
2:45:02can't get our clothes and Harley just
2:45:04complied because that's how a curse of
2:45:06control works a lot of people are like
2:45:08why why doesn't she know but like if
2:45:11you've ever been in a situation where
2:45:14you've been coercively controlled
2:45:15especially by a parental figure
2:45:17you know or an abuser or someone it's
2:45:20difficult
2:45:22um and to survive yourself you
2:45:25you become really compliant right so
2:45:28guess let's so brainwashed so compliant
2:45:30that yeah Holly was just like okay so
2:45:34they were staying at all these different
2:45:35uh Candlewood Suites along the way but
2:45:38not changing clothes
2:45:40Holly was asleep the one night and on
2:45:42February 4th Leticia had obviously
2:45:44slipped out and then just got out of the
2:45:46bag and Leticia was arrested on March
2:45:492nd 2020 which is what we were still
2:45:50watching part of today was that
2:45:52interrogation video with FBI special
2:45:54agent grusing and Leticia Stark and all
2:45:58her lies now some of those that's where
2:46:00I met
2:46:01include him asking her why did you why
2:46:04did you cut the carpet because she cut
2:46:05out a large piece of the carpet and she
2:46:08says the carpet stunk she couldn't
2:46:11breathe no one could breathe
2:46:14that's
2:46:16very interesting especially based on the
2:46:18picture we've seen many times of the
2:46:20candle incident and I don't know what's
2:46:22going on with that carpet or what she
2:46:24really did you know
2:46:26okay so sorry I'm not paying too much
2:46:28attention here to the chat because I'm
2:46:30keeping you guys posted
2:46:34um okay so she said that Lena helped
2:46:37clean up after ganon's nosebleeds and
2:46:40she said his nose bled all the time like
2:46:43she really sounds like Chandler
2:46:45holderson if you've never seen the
2:46:46Chandler holders in case I covered that
2:46:48extensively I covered the trial but not
2:46:49streaming the trial I just broke it down
2:46:51every day
2:46:52we get to do that now anyway we're
2:46:54streaming the trial and we break it down
2:46:56in between
2:46:57but anyway he was also explaining away
2:46:59things with nosebleeds and all kinds of
2:47:01crap I mean she's saying it's also
2:47:03concerning her she says an
2:47:04eight-year-old or even younger eight and
2:47:07younger helped clean up gannon's
2:47:08nosebleeds all the time
2:47:10okay
2:47:12she said that again and bled all the
2:47:14time after that as well which is like uh
2:47:16what
2:47:18if you have no sound just refresh
2:47:20refresh
2:47:22she said and this one was like wow
2:47:27the higher power
2:47:29will show everyone
2:47:32the truth
2:47:33and she says she will never have to work
2:47:37another day again
2:47:39okay then well
2:47:41Leticia
2:47:43your wish was that higher Powers command
2:47:48it's like
2:47:50oh everybody can see and yeah you will
2:47:52never have to work another day in your
2:47:54lap okay you go you've been in jail all
2:47:58this time and it looks like you're going
2:48:00straight to prison for life thank you so
2:48:02much Susan I really appreciate it
2:48:04Sandra yes please someone do us a favor
2:48:07and shape of her hair
2:48:08yes
2:48:10okay
2:48:14uh FBI special
2:48:16API special agent gruesing says that she
2:48:19was very logical
2:48:22and you know she he asked her more than
2:48:2430 times when did you last see Gannon
2:48:28when you lost your Ganon hmm
2:48:31she can't answer that which is amazing
2:48:34to see based on how many lies we've seen
2:48:37Hotel she can answer she always has an
2:48:39answer and a story for everything but
2:48:41not that
2:48:43when did you last see Gannon and it's
2:48:45likely because and I'm speculating
2:48:48that image
2:48:50of the state that she lost organ in
2:48:52which
2:48:54would have been putting him in the bag
2:48:58unless she's looked again when she
2:49:00fetched the bag I don't know
2:49:02that's what she remembers the whole time
2:49:04and she she cannot
2:49:07um can't compute she's just like I don't
2:49:10know I don't know there's nothing there
2:49:11was nothing wrong with him she can't say
2:49:13that was very interesting to see
2:49:15Malibu surfaces yes people don't
2:49:17understand how powerful cohesive control
2:49:18is yes if you've never been through it
2:49:21or in it I mean
2:49:23I understand then people like why and
2:49:24what what but man
2:49:26yes I've unfortunately been through it
2:49:28from also parental figures and it's like
2:49:31oh you don't ask questions you just try
2:49:33to survive every day that's what you do
2:49:35so I feel like that's what Holly was
2:49:36going through as well
2:49:39um and that's not me projecting that's
2:49:40based on what she said okay
2:49:44she said nothing negative one of her
2:49:46answers was nothing negative
2:49:48what was Gannon doing how how what was
2:49:50he
2:49:51you know was he sitting was he standing
2:49:53when did you last again and she's like
2:49:54nothing negative okay
2:49:59one Allah says why does the judge let
2:50:00her lay down I don't know but the thing
2:50:03is you see this legal process I mean
2:50:05she's got rights so I don't know if
2:50:08that's part of her like human rights or
2:50:10something that she doesn't have to
2:50:12I think it'll be difficult to Define how
2:50:14one must behave in court but I wish he
2:50:16would
2:50:17I wish there would be rules I mean like
2:50:20in jobs I don't know when I was a pilot
2:50:22you had to tie your hair back you can't
2:50:23have loose hair and play a plane I don't
2:50:25know if it's different in different
2:50:26countries but we could not do that okay
2:50:27you better put that hair in a hair tie
2:50:29so I mean I would think in court it's
2:50:32like you need to tie your hair up
2:50:34your face needs to be visible at all
2:50:36times that would be pretty simple so I
2:50:38don't know I don't know the answer to
2:50:40that I see we all ask all the time right
2:50:42yeah I'm not too pain since you're right
2:50:44he was doing nothing negative you were
2:50:46Leticia then she said Ganon is my
2:50:49favorite stepchild I read is but I think
2:50:51she said was
2:50:53favorite stepchild okay little taboo to
2:50:55pick a favorite number one secondly liar
2:50:58because Al said that
2:51:00um
2:51:01she was way closer to Elena
2:51:05she
2:51:07she also said what are you a
2:51:08psychologist now he said no I'm a
2:51:10Behavioral Analyst
2:51:12and then she said okay well that
2:51:14behavioral analysis analysis the way she
2:51:18said it was like what
2:51:20Behavioral Analyst who does behavioral
2:51:22analysis
2:51:24and you know wilcook also packed that
2:51:26one up
2:51:27yes if you don't know where the puck
2:51:30well I say Puck obviously because like
2:51:31not just saying you know the f word but
2:51:34also yeah Sherry papini oh my word if
2:51:35you've never seen my stream on Cherry
2:51:37papini the easiest way to find it is on
2:51:39my second Channel
2:51:40that's where we all got packed from if
2:51:42you went there go watch that okay so
2:51:46she said I'm trying to remain respectful
2:51:49to you
2:51:50trying she was trying so hard to remain
2:51:54respectful
2:51:56okay
2:51:58she was also projecting how she guessed
2:52:00that she said if I take you now straight
2:52:04to Gannon and he's standing right in
2:52:06front of you
2:52:07you're gonna say that's not Gannon
2:52:11oh well one who gaslights would know
2:52:12wouldn't you
2:52:14you know
2:52:17yes wonderla says I agree I would think
2:52:19she would be ordered to be more engaged
2:52:20unless she's medicated could be that as
2:52:22well
2:52:24uh tornado artist has anyone validated
2:52:27the fire alarm actually went off nope we
2:52:29haven't heard any such validation
2:52:32yes genitals the papini puck exactly
2:52:36so
2:52:40when they ask about the blood on the
2:52:41wall she says well you allowed people to
2:52:43be in that house
2:52:45with all that blood huh you allowed
2:52:47people to be in the house meaning all
2:52:48the people that were there to help
2:52:49search for Ganon because she reported
2:52:51him as a runaway
2:52:54and even if later changed to an
2:52:55abduction yeah all the people that were
2:52:58there when she ghosted everyone
2:52:59abandoned everyone took the dogs
2:53:02um and Harley and went and lay low in
2:53:06South Carolina
2:53:07yes those people she's like have you
2:53:09check them you check them oh my word
2:53:12so
2:53:14she's also trying to explain the blood
2:53:15on a wall is what is is a miscarriage
2:53:18like why would if you had a miscarriage
2:53:20why would that blood be on ganon's wall
2:53:22it makes no sense whatsoever but we
2:53:24already know her stories make no sense
2:53:27oh man and then this one that I wrote
2:53:29down
2:53:30she invited Mr gruesing to North
2:53:33Carolina now when she already came up
2:53:34with that threesome story if you missed
2:53:37it check the summary of all the
2:53:38characters she made up and this whole
2:53:40map time thing okay it's in my video
2:53:41section it's also on the playlist but
2:53:44when she came up with that threesome
2:53:46story that was in what I identified as
2:53:48one of her forms of manipulation like
2:53:50okay I'm not getting through to the sky
2:53:52start bringing up fantasy things like
2:53:54things that he might like you know
2:53:56which is so she's so wrong so she makes
2:53:59up like
2:54:00some threesome situation
2:54:03and that this lady angel or whoever has
2:54:06Ganon what
2:54:07yes and so
2:54:09later she invites Mr gruesing to South
2:54:12Carolina you see that's my point that
2:54:14confirms it that's what she's trying to
2:54:15do
2:54:16so she will guess that to see manipulate
2:54:20do all those things and when she runs
2:54:21out of those cards she's like seduce
2:54:25so Mr gurusing would you like to come
2:54:27with me to uh North Carolina as well not
2:54:30South Carolina would you want to come
2:54:31with me to North Carolina
2:54:33which is where she's originally from
2:54:35which is quite odd to invite him that he
2:54:39must have been like
2:54:40that's a hard no
2:54:43um
2:54:44so I wrote you in Brackets based on what
2:54:46you guys in the chat were saying imagine
2:54:47her
2:54:48Daryl Brooks Jody Arias and Casey
2:54:52Anthony in one room
2:54:54wow
2:54:55right
2:55:01um donkeys we didn't hear of that we
2:55:03just heard can you spray paint wood
2:55:06right
2:55:07yeah why North Carolina that's where
2:55:09she's originally from so I don't know if
2:55:11she's like coming to my hometown I'll
2:55:12show you around Mr Gru Singh stop it
2:55:16Leticia stop it
2:55:19yeah will cook says behavioral analysis
2:55:22as well
2:55:24analysis Behavioral Analyst
2:55:27and yeah Woody said cooking it up
2:55:30Mr cook was making jokes yes and he says
2:55:33well you've heard about five to ten main
2:55:35stories wow that what a defense question
2:55:38so there were about five to ten main
2:55:40stories right
2:55:42yes what does that have to do with
2:55:44anything he also called a Leticia
2:55:48he likes to to botch her name I'm not
2:55:50sure why because he's her defense
2:55:52attorney
2:55:53but at some times
2:55:55Miss stouch over here
2:55:58and and he's like Leticia
2:56:01and the next sentence he corrected
2:56:02himself to Leticia anyway
2:56:05she was more concerned about what agent
2:56:07gruesing was thinking she was so
2:56:09concerned about what's in his mind why
2:56:11because she's a manipulator
2:56:13she wants to know what's in your mind so
2:56:15that I could take what's in your mind
2:56:16and shape it the way that I wanted okay
2:56:18so what are you thinking you let me know
2:56:20then I'll let you know what you actually
2:56:22think classic gaslighting coercive
2:56:24control all of that
2:56:30um he said she was her not being able to
2:56:32articulate the last image means of Ganon
2:56:35means the image was awful that she
2:56:37couldn't answer 30 times
2:56:39he said that she
2:56:42had organized thought patterns
2:56:45and that she was very deceiving and she
2:56:48was shifting and manipulating and all of
2:56:50that
2:56:51okay then we had special agent David
2:56:53Donati take the stand and he was talking
2:56:55about Tiguan to Tiguan telematics the
2:56:58infotainment system in dash under the
2:57:00dash and all of that and then you guys
2:57:02all pointed out that the T-shirt was
2:57:04flipping the bird which was about one
2:57:05hour 57 issues what I noted and all this
2:57:09infotainment stuff was taken on February
2:57:117 2020 is the data were done that they
2:57:13said and by February 12th they already
2:57:16had all this data from two chips where
2:57:18they extracted the data which was
2:57:19according to special agent Dwight
2:57:23falkovsky
2:57:24okay they just mentioned some witnesses
2:57:27that are going to be coming up this week
2:57:30Dr grimoth
2:57:32from
2:57:34cmhip Colorado Mental Health Institute
2:57:37Pueblo Pablo
2:57:40Dr Grimace and Dr Moore which she worked
2:57:44in a jail and then also a special agent
2:57:46FBI special agent Kevin hoyland
2:57:49so there's that and when the judge said
2:57:50we should be finished by next week
2:57:52remember that's when according to my
2:57:54understanding
2:57:55that's when
2:57:57the prosecution rests their case
2:57:59and then the defense
2:58:03presents their case
2:58:06and only after all of that
2:58:09closing arguments
2:58:11okay
2:58:13yes so
2:58:16so I'm just laughing at you Daryl Brooks
2:58:18comment there
2:58:20so that's what we have from what we've
2:58:22heard so far today and as we just heard
2:58:25um yeah lunch is only happening
2:58:27they should see Denver time lunch is
2:58:29happening accordingly back at 1 30 so
2:58:32right now it's not even 12 yet it's 10
2:58:35to 12. but here we are okay so stand by
2:58:38fariba says her Eddies want her to look
2:58:40crazy with messy hair
2:58:42I wonder and I know we're all thinking
2:58:44like she's gonna act out she's going to
2:58:45act out I mean she's already kind of
2:58:47acting out I think we're expecting her
2:58:49to like elbow
2:58:51one of her attorneys in the face or
2:58:53something like she did in that vehicle
2:58:55that we saw
2:58:57um you know when she attacked the
2:59:00the deputy I want to say with a Monster
2:59:03energy drink oh my word being extradited
2:59:06from South Carolina back to Colorado she
2:59:10weaseld her way out of those handcuffs
2:59:12and then attacked one of the officers
2:59:15yes
2:59:17um Devil Woman said is she crazy yes but
2:59:20not insane
2:59:23Pueblo
2:59:25that's how I read that because you don't
2:59:27want me to say to puerblo
2:59:30right Pueblo
2:59:34welcome to all the pronunciation police
2:59:36up in here I want to show you this
2:59:38quickly I just want to find it again uh
2:59:40just hold on one second
2:59:42some way down here wait
2:59:45where does it say it
2:59:47there's this article that one of the
2:59:49Grizzlies sent me as well
2:59:51thank you Catherine for sending me this
2:59:56I just can't see where it says Leticia
2:59:59oh there we go okay okay
3:00:02so this is an article from March 13th
3:00:042023
3:00:06and it says new documents detail how
3:00:09drugs entered El Paso County Jail
3:00:11leading to OD death
3:00:14Pueblo
3:00:16Pueblo
3:00:18okay
3:00:21Pueblo
3:00:26so
3:00:29El Paso County Colorado so this is from
3:00:32March this year right yeah March 13 2023
3:00:36now look at this
3:00:37the Colorado Springs Police Department's
3:00:39two-month investigation named at least
3:00:41six inmates potentially tied to Renee
3:00:43Lawrence's fent overdose death inside
3:00:47the El Paso County Jail
3:00:51according to the arrest affidavit the
3:00:53primary suspect is Katarina Gibson the
3:00:55day before
3:00:56Lawrence's death Gibson was booked into
3:00:59the El Paso County Jail
3:01:01during the intake process photos in the
3:01:04police record show Gibson moving drugs
3:01:06on her body so jail staff couldn't find
3:01:08them during multiple searches
3:01:11Katrina said leticia's got 99 problems
3:01:13but Insanity ain't one of them
3:01:15that's a good one thank you thank you
3:01:18yes
3:01:19okay I'm not t-pains it's correct Pueblo
3:01:22see I would say like this Pueblo anyway
3:01:24doesn't matter well good
3:01:28so so let's follow the story follow it
3:01:31along okay
3:01:33somebody died right from overdose so
3:01:35this listen leticia's name comes up here
3:01:36okay during the intake process photos in
3:01:38the police record show Gibson moving
3:01:40drugs on her body so jail staff couldn't
3:01:42find them during multiple searches
3:01:43Gibson had previously attempted to sneak
3:01:45drugs within the jail during prior
3:01:47arrests including a syringe with myth
3:01:50and she was caught in the past but this
3:01:52time she avoided detection
3:01:56yes Stefan that's how I say it sorry but
3:01:58Pueblo is how I would say it like a like
3:02:02Spanish style
3:02:03Gibson was placed in the next cell to
3:02:07Lawrence
3:02:08Lawrence the cellmate Rihanna Murray or
3:02:11morit tried to sneak drugs in during her
3:02:13intake but failed once inside Gibson
3:02:16asked Moret if she knew anyone who did
3:02:19drugs according to Morris interview with
3:02:21detectives referenced in the arrest
3:02:22affidavit Gibson says she didn't get
3:02:25caught bringing drugs into the jail
3:02:27agreed to let Gibson use her phone pin
3:02:30to help Lawrence pay for the pills
3:02:32during the day that she died
3:02:34surveillance video shows Lawrence Gibson
3:02:37and Murray meeting multiple times
3:02:39according to the police documents Murray
3:02:42seen putting in her phone password
3:02:44before handing it to Gibson to make
3:02:45calls at least twice during a three-hour
3:02:48time frame Gibson hands physically hands
3:02:50something to Lawrence
3:02:52at one point Leticia Stout the woman
3:02:55accused of killing her stepson brings a
3:02:57brown paper bag from her cell and sits
3:03:01it on a table in the common area
3:03:03about 20 minutes later another inmate
3:03:05picks it up and hands it to Lawrence
3:03:08hmm are you guys following this because
3:03:11oh my word
3:03:16according to the arrest affidavit the
3:03:17police department doesn't think
3:03:18Contraband was in the bag because they
3:03:20would have been more protective or
3:03:21secretive with it they did not seem
3:03:23concerned when the war deputies walked
3:03:24near it comments made during Gibson's
3:03:27phone calls and to other inmates pin her
3:03:28as the primary suspect according to the
3:03:30arrest affidavit most of Gibson's calls
3:03:33are with Darwin van roelter that's a
3:03:37very dutch-sunning name
3:03:39Darwin van Rota we gotta roll those
3:03:42auras Who police believe she was in a
3:03:44romantic relationship with on one call
3:03:47with a rotor she said she could get more
3:03:49phone Time by making trades she also
3:03:51told him on another call I may or may
3:03:53not have had candy when I got here but
3:03:56you know as probably get rid of it
3:03:57because I need to sober up you know
3:03:59Murray Lawrence cellmate said she was
3:04:02there when Lawrence took the drug she
3:04:04said Lawrence lady laid down to take a
3:04:06nap and never woke up after she died
3:04:08Gibson told Murray to keep her mouth
3:04:10shut six days after sorry six days after
3:04:14Lawrence died Gibson was released to a
3:04:16representative for a sober living
3:04:17facility she was scheduled for a hearing
3:04:20review
3:04:21um sorry a review hearing on January
3:04:2331st but never showed up on March 3rd
3:04:26Gibson was arrested and booked back into
3:04:28the El Paso County Jail on a 100 000
3:04:30Bond
3:04:32it's the first time in El Paso County
3:04:33Jail history that a previous inmate was
3:04:35charged with proximate cause of death by
3:04:37and lawful distribution and introducing
3:04:39Contraband in the second degree
3:04:42Gibson is scheduled for a prelim hearing
3:04:44next month
3:04:45right
3:04:48so good catch to Catherine thank you for
3:04:51sending this to me first
3:04:54um
3:04:55one of my subscribers one of the
3:04:57Grizzlies right if you're here and
3:04:59subscribe you're one of us and so make
3:05:01sure you are subscribed but she sent
3:05:03this to me I I was speed reading it and
3:05:06I'm like yeah no I don't see your name
3:05:07what is this like what is it and then
3:05:10I'm like oh my word I see it what like
3:05:13at one point Leticia does what now so
3:05:15they all like scuffling around you know
3:05:17talking like shh
3:05:18and the next minute Leticia is the one
3:05:20that brings in a brown paper bag from
3:05:21your son sits it on a table and 20
3:05:23minutes later another inmate picks it up
3:05:24and hands it to Lawrence whoa
3:05:27Pueblo everybody Pueblo
3:05:33oh no bath salts
3:05:35oh no
3:05:41yes okay okay
3:05:45so that was interesting don't you think
3:05:47damn
3:05:52and now I'm reading your comments to see
3:05:54what you say
3:05:57you guys are still going on about Pueblo
3:06:01um
3:06:01okay let's see the time I just want to
3:06:03see quickly so right now Denver time
3:06:07so in 90 minutes
3:06:09it's gonna be Court time Court time in
3:06:1219 minutes very excited I don't know I'm
3:06:14very wide awake today I feel well rested
3:06:16even though we talked about Lori
3:06:18valadebell yesterday
3:06:20still feel rested
3:06:22I hope you do too maybe it's because we
3:06:25didn't hear
3:06:26her calls or anything like that right
3:06:30oh thank you Rebecca thank you yes when
3:06:33you know you know
3:06:36all right so just hold on one second
3:06:39here
3:06:45I'm thinking what we could look at now
3:06:46we've looked at all the map time you
3:06:48know there's always lots to do
3:06:52it feels like I'm in class
3:06:54yes
3:06:56oh my bad Sarah Sunshine not always yeah
3:06:59us speed read things when I first get
3:07:00them because obviously I get a lot of
3:07:02emails
3:07:03I have right now so many unread emails
3:07:05so I'm so sorry about that 636 of them
3:07:08okay that number just never seems to
3:07:10come down so never be offended if I
3:07:12don't respond to your email and you get
3:07:13the auto response it's just how it is
3:07:15okay
3:07:17I don't I don't love the admin side of
3:07:18things but I do speed read everything
3:07:20you guys send me and I'm like what is
3:07:22this now so yes
3:07:27can they watch YouTube in jail I don't
3:07:28think I don't know I would actually hope
3:07:31not what are you guys
3:07:33think
3:07:34um I was re-listening to
3:07:37elstas um day two of the trial his
3:07:41testimony and we haven't streamed that
3:07:43yet so I don't know if you want to
3:07:44listen to some of that
3:07:45could do that
3:07:47um it's very interesting also in that
3:07:50initially everyone's like why is granon
3:07:53in the basement but remember Harley also
3:07:56stayed downstairs there her room was
3:07:57there it was gannon's room Harley's room
3:07:59and a bathroom
3:08:00and initially it was actually Holly and
3:08:03Lena down there
3:08:05and then
3:08:06Lena and Gannon switched rooms
3:08:09yes
3:08:13yeah spark says the ridiculous story
3:08:15about boss souls
3:08:16isn't that very old stuff yes indeed
3:08:19okay
3:08:21so just hold on one second
3:08:25it's gonna go here which is day two
3:08:29okay
3:08:37let's make it
3:08:39like this
3:08:45it was a little box about that big as
3:08:48well
3:08:49oh man good step forward and raise okay
3:08:53so I know we can't see it very well very
3:08:56big
3:08:56I'll make it a bit bigger now
3:08:58um I am going to be showing you this
3:09:01from MB inks Channel
3:09:05which is one of my YouTube and Twitter
3:09:07friends
3:09:09from the UK so I will link his channel
3:09:12for you so that you can
3:09:14go and subscribe over there give us some
3:09:16grizzly love
3:09:17we do not stream day two of the trial
3:09:19okay so it's really interesting to
3:09:22revisit El staff's testimony
3:09:26I was like whoa in hindsight because I
3:09:28completely forgot that his mother
3:09:31came to stay there that weekend for a
3:09:33week actually
3:09:34his mother
3:09:36came to Colorado Springs to say it's
3:09:376622 Mandan Drive
3:09:39for a week and then they left on the
3:09:42Saturday they being L and his mother
3:09:44they went to the airport and Al stayed
3:09:47at the airport that night by just
3:09:49sleeping on his duffel bag
3:09:51across from the car rental places like
3:09:53on the floor
3:09:54so already from Saturday night
3:09:58alany's mother
3:10:00are out of the house
3:10:01and that's where we learn about the foot
3:10:03injury and then by Sunday night there's
3:10:05this candle incident the hike pooping of
3:10:07the pants three times that Leticia likes
3:10:09to say then there's the candle incident
3:10:11on the Sunday like things escalated real
3:10:14quick the minute
3:10:16that L was out of sight
3:10:21so I wonder if that was a pattern that
3:10:23Leticia had
3:10:25of abusing Ganon
3:10:27when L wasn't around
3:10:28like almost taking it out again you know
3:10:30what I mean uh welcome to membership
3:10:32Jody
3:10:34you know I think we all think about why
3:10:35does she do this why did Leticia do this
3:10:37why why but there's so much
3:10:41resentment that she has so much jealousy
3:10:45towards Landon that the suitcase that
3:10:48she put Ganon in and discarded of him in
3:10:51okay that olive green suitcase belonged
3:10:54to Landon it was a gift from Landon's
3:10:56aunt
3:10:57so I think Leticia saw this bag in L
3:11:00took the bag when you know they got
3:11:02divorced which I'm I'm not sure why but
3:11:04he was like okay I just got this bag so
3:11:05you know but the thing is it was
3:11:07initially Landon so to think that
3:11:10Leticia
3:11:11murdered Landon's son
3:11:13and put her son in this bag that she got
3:11:15us a gift from her aunt
3:11:18the pain man
3:11:20that was I think she was really
3:11:24showing Landon you know
3:11:26but at the same time I also think that
3:11:30Ganon
3:11:32may have been like you're not my mom I
3:11:34had a stepmother I used to feel like
3:11:36that okay like like who the hell are you
3:11:38like telling me what I need to eat what
3:11:40I need to do because it's just from one
3:11:41freaking controlling person to the next
3:11:43when you're being passed around between
3:11:45two families right not always in my
3:11:46family situation I'm saying so with my
3:11:48stepmother it's always like you're not
3:11:49my mom
3:11:50and I mean she already hated me because
3:11:52I wasn't her flesh and blood so I kind
3:11:54of feel that vibe from the T-shirt where
3:11:57you're like oh okay so you just like
3:11:59you're so jealous that Elle made these
3:12:02two beautiful children with somebody
3:12:03else
3:12:05um but now go on take it all out on
3:12:06Ganon because he's older as well and I
3:12:09think he was like you're not my mom and
3:12:11you can't tell me what to do and he
3:12:13didn't like her in my opinion you know
3:12:14what I mean just based on she's the
3:12:16hatred she had for him she lashed out uh
3:12:19welcome welcome to your membership so
3:12:22I'm just speculating of course I just
3:12:25whoa the Google searches the way she
3:12:27talks about London even after Landon is
3:12:29ganon's biological mom if you don't know
3:12:31that
3:12:32um
3:12:33even afterwards in her
3:12:35media interview with her back to the
3:12:37camera she's talking about Landon on the
3:12:40phone calls we've heard with L stuff
3:12:41she's talking about Landon
3:12:43I mean to the FBI special agent she's
3:12:45trying to pin it on Landon it's
3:12:47so crazy on my word so I think she was
3:12:49so
3:12:50jealous of L having
3:12:54you know Landon as an ex-wife she was so
3:12:56jealous that I go wow you had kids with
3:12:58her and everything
3:12:59but then on top of that if Gannon was
3:13:01like
3:13:02I miss my mom I want my mom I don't know
3:13:04I feel like Leticia
3:13:07yeah she the evil really came out huh
3:13:11yes okay so let me play this
3:13:15is your right hand please sir I'm just
3:13:17checking that it's working can you hear
3:13:18tell me if you can hear nicely or do I
3:13:20need to boost
3:13:22Woody thank you Woody it was you that
3:13:25said something earlier right that I
3:13:26wrote down yeah cooking it up
3:13:28yeah you say great job G you have the
3:13:30best channel of all the rest thank you
3:13:31so much
3:13:33thank you so much yes fancy she's
3:13:35obsessed
3:13:37I need a big cursor
3:13:39why
3:13:41Okay so
3:13:44um
3:13:44tell me if I need to boost it I'm gonna
3:13:46play this this is from day two L Stark
3:13:48takes the stand
3:13:50day one was opening statements
3:13:52um and day two Elton staff took the
3:13:54stand for most of the day so let's have
3:13:55a listen here
3:14:05we're waiting
3:14:10Mr stock if you'd raise your right hand
3:14:12please sir
3:14:13do you swear affirm the testimony about
3:14:14giving this medal to be the truth the
3:14:16whole truth and nothing but the truth
3:14:17exactly and have a seat in the witness
3:14:19stand sorry to pause it again I just
3:14:20want to say on this day they didn't um
3:14:22show L on the stand they didn't
3:14:24because I looked at all the streams you
3:14:26know from law and crime Network
3:14:28um and all the channels that did it
3:14:30there was no l so I think that day
3:14:33you could see here is the camera they
3:14:35didn't put it on let's see now please
3:14:38watch your step as you step into the
3:14:39stand
3:14:41Mr Allen welcome
3:14:44to introduce yourself to this
3:14:48um Al stouk and that's s-t-a-u-c-h and
3:14:52gannon's father
3:15:01you may
3:15:09what is
3:15:14so they said what is people's exhibit
3:15:16and they said That's my boy
3:15:18I'm gonna just boost it just a little
3:15:19bit
3:15:31defense
3:15:38exhibit number one will be admitted go
3:15:40ahead
3:15:48I can't see it
3:15:50okay
3:15:51we need to take it down though if it's
3:15:53all right
3:16:03brother Jerry a little bit about your
3:16:05son how old was he even in Boston he's
3:16:0711.
3:16:1899 2008
3:16:28no he was uh four months early
3:16:32one pound and six ounces
3:16:35sorry I don't know why the sound sounds
3:16:37like that now that's not what we want
3:16:39the heels are sounding like that for
3:16:41turn that off then oh my goodness no no
3:16:44no no no no
3:16:45okay here we go
3:16:50foreign
3:16:56Bullard
3:17:03were you married
3:17:05I was yes
3:17:11Elena
3:17:17won
3:17:21so Pauline is asking is it's still live
3:17:23trial this is from day two we're just
3:17:25re-listening to it because of the long
3:17:26lunch break we re-listing to El Stout's
3:17:29testimony from day two because it's just
3:17:31so interesting especially now in
3:17:33hindsight
3:17:35yeah so as I said he was born on
3:17:38September 29th and it was about a month
3:17:40after that I think it was October 20th I
3:17:43got to hold it for the first time
3:17:45that's how big he was right there and
3:17:48wait
3:17:49the last time I ever got to hold him he
3:17:52was his thoughts about that big as well
3:17:56six months after he died
3:18:10yeah I believe we brought him home in
3:18:12January
3:18:14if I remember correctly that towards the
3:18:16end of January or sometime in January of
3:18:182009 so about three three and a half I
3:18:21think the audio issue the sound like
3:18:24that is on the streams
3:18:27uh side so sorry about that I think it
3:18:29improves over time
3:18:30um
3:18:31I cannot do it from low on crime Network
3:18:33because that'll just be an automatic
3:18:35copyright problem so
3:18:38I do have permission from MB Inc so if
3:18:41you
3:18:43I'm sorry about that little sound as I
3:18:45say it'll get better okay so it's from
3:18:46day two of the trial I put it on 1.25
3:18:48speed otherwise we'll never get through
3:18:50it once in the hospital
3:18:55uh yeah early on he had um a lot of
3:18:58longitudes actually while he was in the
3:19:00hospital he had quite a number of
3:19:01surgeries um hernia he had some like I
3:19:04said I think it was lung collapse one
3:19:05times he had a chest tube also was on a
3:19:07feeding tube and a lot of things that go
3:19:08along with being preemie um after that
3:19:11he did take a while to overcome his
3:19:13longest use he had pneumonia and RSV I
3:19:15think at the same time at one point um
3:19:17a couple I mean the only long lasting
3:19:19were two long lasting things he had from
3:19:21it he just had some stomach issues where
3:19:22he had trouble going to the bathroom and
3:19:23then um
3:19:29uh not really I mean other than that his
3:19:31birth obviously he was very very small
3:19:33one pound six ounces
3:19:35um but once he caught up I think we held
3:19:36him back a grade or a year just to allow
3:19:39that and then catch up a little bit in
3:19:40size but no you couldn't tell any
3:19:42difference with his the fifth graders
3:19:43the year he died
3:19:45uh South Carolina and Florence South
3:19:47Carolina
3:19:50uh I moved I moved to Colorado in uh
3:19:53February of 2019.
3:19:55um my teacher and the kids had come a
3:19:57month earlier I I was stationed in
3:19:59Alaska prior to that so
3:20:04oh some of his favorite times and all of
3:20:07his friends can attest to this is just
3:20:08playing video games um I think he he
3:20:10wanted to be a YouTube uh gamer I think
3:20:12he actually was able to make one video
3:20:14and put it on YouTube so it's out there
3:20:15but playing Sonic and uh actually Mario
3:20:17was his favorite so um that was some of
3:20:19the favorite things I ever got to do
3:20:21with him so
3:20:26yes sir
3:20:28so you heard that he said actually Mario
3:20:31was one of his favorite things
3:20:33um but he loved Sonic and he loved
3:20:36playing Mario and we've seen pictures of
3:20:37him also dressed as Mario so so sweet
3:20:43I think
3:20:59yes
3:21:06sir that would have been probably 2018
3:21:08at our house in Myrtle Beach
3:21:12all right
3:21:15body breaks G and
3:21:18I was a pilot for nine years of my life
3:21:21so I can go a long time without any of
3:21:23those things exhibit number two will be
3:21:25admitted
3:21:27uh right
3:21:31let's for you
3:21:35like I said we owned a house in Myrtle
3:21:37Beach at that time and I believe that
3:21:39would have been the fall of 2018. so I
3:21:41guess
3:21:43um
3:21:442012 so six and a half yeah right thanks
3:21:48yeah about six and a half years old
3:21:51she was uh she actually tried to come
3:21:53out a little earlier than gay and they
3:21:54were you know always competitive with
3:21:55one another but uh Gayden was born at 24
3:21:57weeks she tried to come out at 22.
3:22:00um but I think it was actually 34 weeks
3:22:02of you know being with her mom and her
3:22:04tummy there before she came out so she
3:22:06was about two months
3:22:09oh I obviously as much love as a sister
3:22:13and brother can have I think one of the
3:22:15I think a famous quote Lena said after
3:22:17again and I was I'm just gonna miss
3:22:18getting on his nerves so if that sums it
3:22:20up for you right there but yeah he loved
3:22:21his sister and uh
3:22:23well one thing I always urged him to do
3:22:24and I know his mama did too was look
3:22:26after your little sister and even
3:22:27getting off the bus and walking home I
3:22:28used to fuss at him if he uh let her
3:22:30walk home alone and it was three houses
3:22:32away so that was kind of the theme for
3:22:33us just be with your sister and be
3:22:34together you know
3:22:40how long were um
3:22:44um just shy of 10 years
3:22:46but dating and all I think we were
3:22:48together 11 11 or so 12 years
3:22:53yes sir
3:22:55oh I was married to her for four or five
3:22:57years whatever it was
3:22:59I met her I think somewhere along the
3:23:01way playing softball on one of the
3:23:03various teams we played on uh but I
3:23:05didn't really get to know her until
3:23:07um beginning of 2014 so January time
3:23:10frame
3:23:11January of 2014 is when I started to
3:23:13when I like met her and went out there
3:23:15and started to get to know her
3:23:16so for everyone asking when did Al meet
3:23:19Leticia I hope my volume isn't like too
3:23:21much of a fright for you after that I
3:23:22don't know let me know I'll speak softly
3:23:242014 okay
3:23:32yes sir we were separated and uh you
3:23:34know with the intent of getting divorced
3:23:35going our second days and that's when I
3:23:37met and started dating Tisha
3:23:41she did Harley
3:23:44you've seen that binders
3:23:48cheers
3:23:53um looks like I mean I think that would
3:23:55have been 2019 it looks like her high
3:23:56school graduation picture if I'm not
3:23:58mistaken
3:24:01so that three will be admitted
3:24:08yes sir
3:24:11so please remember on the first and
3:24:13second day the
3:24:15especially from day two and three so
3:24:17maybe it's good that I only started
3:24:18really streaming full-time from day
3:24:20three often in session because by then
3:24:21they'd had the microphone sorted out at
3:24:23this point the prosecution doesn't have
3:24:25the microphone right there and we can't
3:24:27hear we can't hear Too Much from them
3:24:29but um I hope that you can hear El Stark
3:24:32because that's what we're listening to
3:24:33okay
3:24:35I believe it was in Columbia South
3:24:37Carolina where the graduation was
3:24:38somewhere in South Carolina because she
3:24:41would go ahead I'm sorry I was gonna say
3:24:42she was she finished her high school at
3:24:43online school that was based in South
3:24:45Carolina so she went back for the
3:24:47graduation
3:24:48[Music]
3:24:51it was yes sir Murphy's
3:25:01uh January 2015
3:25:08yes sir
3:25:11teacher right there with the got a green
3:25:14jacket on bluish green jacket
3:25:17black
3:25:20the record whistle reflect go ahead
3:25:24what do you do for a workout I'm an
3:25:26officer in the Colorado National Guard
3:25:28in the full-time status
3:25:35typically yeah one week in a month and
3:25:36then a summer Duty I am
3:25:40uh so I am in a it's called AGR and
3:25:42that's what I've been my whole career uh
3:25:44even in starting in South Carolina I was
3:25:45uh it's active guard is what it is um
3:25:48was there for a rough 12 years or so
3:25:51um as a recruiter and in other
3:25:53capacities and then I took my commission
3:25:55as an officer and moved States um I
3:25:57didn't necessarily get transferred but I
3:25:58moved states to Alaska uh as an officer
3:26:00and then spent two about two years there
3:26:02and then been in Colorado since 2019 as
3:26:04an officer in the Colorado guard so uh
3:26:06my main duties are right now is a
3:26:08missile defense officer
3:26:16uh yes sir
3:26:19thank you uh I went to a lot I got hired
3:26:23and went there I reported in June
3:26:25um I had to come through here for some
3:26:27schooling we call it Kitty wine route
3:26:29but I got hired went to school here and
3:26:31then drove up to Alaska to be
3:26:32permanently stationed
3:26:34uh 2017.
3:26:39uh somewhat it was when I when I
3:26:42initially drove there I had my two
3:26:43children with me um raining again and we
3:26:46made that trip and uh one of the most
3:26:47memorable trips of My Life
3:26:49um and then Tisha and Harley came along
3:26:52the way a little bit later but they they
3:26:54never really permanently moved there
3:26:55they came for a couple weeks at a time
3:26:56and and then came and left and did
3:26:58whatever else
3:26:59just a little bit and
3:27:02then
3:27:06initially well I'll talk about General
3:27:08separation they both stayed the kid
3:27:11stayed in the house and you landed an
3:27:12alternated time in the house so the kids
3:27:13could be as stable as possible during
3:27:15that tough time initially because the
3:27:18status Landon had the majority time
3:27:21um but we were both in the same local
3:27:22area so you know we did the best we
3:27:24could at um sharing that time but I
3:27:27think she moved in initially with her
3:27:28mom and the kids stayed there with her
3:27:29and that was the initial agreement
3:27:33Landon I'm sorry yes Landon specifically
3:27:35had the custody arrangement
3:27:40uh yes that would have been in March of
3:27:422018 while I was in Alaska
3:27:55yes sir
3:27:57so did you have custody of them before
3:27:58you actually got transferred to Alaska
3:28:00no because that was 2017 when I took
3:28:01that trip initially um and then they
3:28:03were still with their mom Landon with
3:28:05the majority time on custody time they
3:28:07what they did they spent the summer with
3:28:09me in Alaska and then I flew them back
3:28:10home or back to their mother for the
3:28:12start of the next school year
3:28:17uh I moved me individually I came I
3:28:20think I got boots on ground February
3:28:2215th of 2019 I believe is the date I got
3:28:25here and like I said Tisha and the kids
3:28:28were here beginning of January getting a
3:28:30house set and everything
3:28:34the defendant yeah
3:28:39you may
3:28:55show you before
3:28:56you recognize this yes that looks like a
3:28:59map of Lords and Ranch neighborhood
3:29:02specific address located on that map it
3:29:04does what's that address uh that would
3:29:06have been our house at 6627 main bin
3:29:08drive us yes
3:29:13number exhibit number four will be
3:29:15admitted go ahead
3:29:26right here is that where you live when
3:29:28you moved to Colorado
3:29:30yeah I um I think just to be clear
3:29:33initially I think they had a little
3:29:34temporary housing on base as you do in
3:29:36your PCS um and then teacher the
3:29:38defendant found um that house for rent
3:29:40and we moved in um and I think they were
3:29:42already in the house when I got here
3:29:43when did you all move
3:29:46D Mr RN thank you for your super sticker
3:29:49it literally says it on the screen right
3:29:51here
3:29:52day two replay of the trial I'll Stout
3:29:54testimony so it was on day two and three
3:29:57I don't remember this specific date I
3:29:59know they were already in the house by
3:29:59the time I got here in the middle of
3:30:01February so February 2019 when you came
3:30:03from Alaska to here you went to that I
3:30:04went directly to the house from the
3:30:05airport
3:30:18yes sir
3:30:23um
3:30:24I live there I guess right out of here
3:30:26because when everything happened again
3:30:28in January of 2020 uh you know the
3:30:31investigation starts taking place and we
3:30:33pretty much decided just to move out and
3:30:34the landlord allowed us to break the
3:30:35lease at that point and then so it would
3:30:37have been early February of 2020 when we
3:30:39moved out officially
3:30:43so let's just go through just a general
3:30:45description of our house with a
3:30:47two-story a Rancher a Rancher with a
3:30:49basement
3:30:50uh I'm not too Savvy on specific style
3:30:53of houses but it had a main Florida
3:30:54basement
3:30:55it was
3:30:58um
3:30:59I mean in the closet was unfinished but
3:31:02all the areas we frequented in the house
3:31:03were finished
3:31:06yeah well that's the closet that's what
3:31:07I was referring to the furnace room yes
3:31:08I called yeah because we kept the
3:31:10luggage and boxes and stuff in there and
3:31:12there was another unfinished closet
3:31:13under the stairs as well I'm sure we'll
3:31:14see that as well
3:31:18on the main floor
3:31:22negative
3:31:23congratulations
3:31:27uh initially it was Gannon
3:31:30um when we first moved in but at one
3:31:32point we switched Lane and gain into
3:31:33what we'll see is gannon's bedroom and
3:31:35Landon moved upstairs
3:31:39uh just that one bedroom when you walk
3:31:41in the front door two bedrooms total
3:31:43yeah
3:31:44yes sir
3:31:46is
3:31:48I just I have a question guys if you put
3:31:50on closed captions because my stream has
3:31:52CC on so you should be able to just turn
3:31:54it on then I wouldn't have to hide the
3:31:57banner to show you this
3:31:59just let me know if you can see it so if
3:32:01I do this
3:32:03can you not see closed captions on my
3:32:05stream
3:32:06yes sir yes sir
3:32:09yeah the access included the laundry
3:32:11stuff laundry room so
3:32:15downstairs was as soon as you come
3:32:18downstairs to the left was the uh I
3:32:20called the closet but um the boiler room
3:32:21or whatever and then galen's room right
3:32:23next to that to the right was the living
3:32:27room area in the basement and then
3:32:28behind that was a bathroom in what was
3:32:30Harley's room Harley's bedroom
3:32:41really
3:32:50okay
3:32:52just different uh so then it depends on
3:32:55the device you're watching because I put
3:32:56closed captions available on my Stream
3:32:58So if you guys put that on you should be
3:32:59able to see it depending on the advice
3:33:01the device you run right the viewpoints
3:33:03of the house you're gonna go through
3:33:04specifically yes
3:33:07foreign yes starting with the outside
3:33:09and working through the house
3:33:12yeah that would be a front view where
3:33:14you can see the garage in the front door
3:33:15yes
3:33:16that's as soon as you come in the front
3:33:18door uh there's a coat closet to the
3:33:20left and then a view of the living room
3:33:23uh that's uh walking into the house for
3:33:25other you can see the couch in the
3:33:27living room and the kitchen to the right
3:33:28as well as the back sliding patio door
3:33:30you can see what's behind the curtains
3:33:31but that's what that is
3:33:33same thing that's a closer up view of
3:33:36the kitchen
3:33:37um you can kind of see the dishwasher
3:33:38and everything but yeah that's the
3:33:39kitchen area
3:33:40nine is basically looks like it's
3:33:43standing at the back sliding glass door
3:33:44where you can see the living room stairs
3:33:46down and then the Garage entryway there
3:33:49upstairs living room
3:33:51that is a view of the master bedroom
3:33:54as soon as you walk in
3:33:56that is a view of the laundry area
3:34:00um and then the next door would be
3:34:01access to the garage
3:34:0212 is the garage
3:34:08yes sir
3:34:12exhibits 5 through 12 will be admitted
3:34:14go ahead
3:34:15uh you may give me just a second Tony
3:34:20all right go ahead
3:34:32so we'll point out and there's actually
3:34:33an extended pointer no yeah it's right
3:34:37here
3:34:37oh yes okay you can watch it you can
3:34:40just turn around
3:34:43just make sure when you're pointing away
3:34:45from us that the furthest you're from
3:34:46you can hear you okay
3:34:48so um like I said this is a walking into
3:34:51the front door this is uh what I use is
3:34:53my closet actually but the front what
3:34:55would be a coat closet
3:34:57um you can see the couch in the living
3:34:58room right there
3:34:59um as we walk forward we'll see to the
3:35:01right is the kitchen and this is a wall
3:35:02that covers the stairwell going down but
3:35:05that's the living room area right in
3:35:07here on the main floor so the front door
3:35:08would that be basically tore back in
3:35:10this photo yes as you walk in the front
3:35:11door front door right behind us yes sir
3:35:13okay number seven
3:35:17this is where I reference the couch in
3:35:19the living room kitchen area and the
3:35:21back sliding patio doors behind the
3:35:23curtains there and you can see that on
3:35:25this day they didn't show the witness uh
3:35:27camera so we can't see what he's
3:35:29pointing at to what he's showing but
3:35:30he's describing the layout of the house
3:35:32there's a dog in the photo there as well
3:35:35yes chance and then it looks like there
3:35:37might be a person on the couch yep and
3:35:38that would be Harley right there
3:35:40current people's exhibit number eight
3:35:43uh same thing here's the kitchen I said
3:35:45just a second ago dishwasher and the
3:35:47back sliding doors once again
3:35:49people's exhibit number nine
3:35:51uh yeah so right behind us right now
3:35:53would be the those back patio sliding
3:35:55doors and here's the stairwell going
3:35:57down this is the walleye referenced in
3:35:58the first picture uh you know TV living
3:36:00room area and this is the entryway into
3:36:03the laundry room and this would be the
3:36:04master bedroom behind this wall so sort
3:36:07of around the corner there yeah you have
3:36:08to go around the corner into the master
3:36:09bedroom okay and people okay so what
3:36:12I've done for you guys now yes they're
3:36:14on lunch until half past one
3:36:17Colorado time so it's a long lunch today
3:36:19so what we're doing is re-listening
3:36:21together to L Stout's testimony from day
3:36:24two and now put the banner on the top so
3:36:26that I can put closed captions on this
3:36:28stream and then you could see it so
3:36:29win-win for everyone exhibit number 10.
3:36:31what are we looking at there uh so yeah
3:36:33going around that corner we've come into
3:36:34the master bedroom now master bedroom
3:36:36doors behind us and there's a little bit
3:36:38of window into the backyard and um
3:36:39Master bed right here and then sort of
3:36:42over to the left what's to the left in
3:36:43that photo so if you go sort of if we
3:36:46don't have a picture of it yet but where
3:36:47would that go so I'm look if I'm
3:36:49standing looking at on the screen from
3:36:51my body to the left there'll be the
3:36:52bathroom the master bathroom and then
3:36:53through that master bathroom would have
3:36:55been teachers or excuse me the
3:36:56defendant's closet okay
3:36:57and then people's exhibit number 11.
3:37:00uh once again looking from that living
3:37:02room view this is the garage entryway we
3:37:04discussed and uh the laundry facilities
3:37:06right here and then into that uh through
3:37:08that door would be into the garage okay
3:37:11people's 12. and that is the garage
3:37:13whose car is parked there that was the
3:37:16car that belonged to Harley what kind of
3:37:18car is that it's a Volkswagen Jetta I
3:37:20think it was a 2018 Volkswagen looks
3:37:23like maybe somebody's a woodworker
3:37:24somebody who's that I try I don't know
3:37:27if I could claim to be an actual
3:37:28woodworker but I give it a best shot so
3:37:29so that woodworking material there uh
3:37:32various pieces of wood and table and all
3:37:34that kind of thing that's your stuff
3:37:35yeah pretty much this whole side of the
3:37:37garage was dedicated with parking bikes
3:37:39but other than that it was uh you know
3:37:41just to my supplies and my woodworking
3:37:43stuff what kind of stuff would you build
3:37:45with
3:37:46yeah plague doctor no one talks to me
3:37:49like this on my channel on my stream no
3:37:52you can go watch it somewhere else if
3:37:54you don't want my commentary
3:37:55well this you see right here actually
3:37:57just um about 90 done as a table for Mom
3:38:00and I surprised her with it the other
3:38:01day
3:38:02um one of my favorite things to make is
3:38:03like cutting boards and uh like epoxy
3:38:05boards and stuff like that but it's kind
3:38:06of what I do so you mentioned making a
3:38:09table for I think you said Mom do you
3:38:10mean your mom yeah my mom sitting right
3:38:11over there okay uh so you would make
3:38:13some furniture
3:38:14yes and then also cutting boards cutting
3:38:16boards and stuff like that yeah you want
3:38:18to take have you take a look in that
3:38:19binder again it should be the next
3:38:21exhibit number 34. you see it there
3:38:25uh I have 13 is next so flip all the way
3:38:27to flip to 34 okay
3:38:33yes sir is that a photo of a table that
3:38:36you built yes sir who'd you build that
3:38:37table for I built that for Ganon so he'd
3:38:39have a place to put his uh you know
3:38:40Legos in his you know his little toys
3:38:42and stuff in his room is it a fair and
3:38:44accurate representation of uh that table
3:38:45that you built yes sir you know I moved
3:38:47from Mission and permission of colors
3:38:48people's 34. interesting okay you said
3:38:50the 34 will be admitted
3:38:53go ahead
3:38:58so people's 34 is now displayed on the
3:39:00two screens here
3:39:02um it's fairly obvious but just point
3:39:03out the table that we're talking about
3:39:04that you built for gaming
3:39:06right here there's been a blue one and
3:39:07retailers were specifically for Mario
3:39:08like I said it's one of his favorite
3:39:10things so I wanted him to
3:39:12enjoy that based on his Mario little
3:39:13thing
3:39:16um and then there's a some scrap wood in
3:39:18that photo just to the left there can
3:39:19you point that out yeah so a little
3:39:21piece of like OSB board and then my
3:39:23circular saw here there's more of that
3:39:24same OSB up there I use that to build
3:39:26those uh in the laundry room saw that
3:39:28little shoe container it was gray built
3:39:30it out of that wood so you you used a
3:39:32term that I'm not familiar with I'm not
3:39:33a woodworker osv what is that OSB it's
3:39:35like plywood different types of plywood
3:39:37generics
3:39:39um
3:39:41particle board is another word that's
3:39:43used okay if you could pull that down
3:39:45the picture and then I want to have you
3:39:46now flip back to people's on 13 through
3:39:4831 okay and then just flip through all
3:39:50of those and tell me when you're done 13
3:39:51through 31 thank you
3:40:11stop at 31 you said yes okay all right
3:40:13uh are those basic thanks everyone
3:40:16you're so sweet I'm not just a bubble
3:40:18head this is my channel we make
3:40:20commentary over here so if you remember
3:40:22um the photos that they showed us when
3:40:24they showed us evidence in gannon's room
3:40:26and you know all the stickers on the
3:40:28wall and stuff we could see that table
3:40:29which was like a little wooden table
3:40:31painted in red and blue and that's the
3:40:34table that I was referring to that he
3:40:36made for Gannon and then they talked
3:40:39about that board that was in its picture
3:40:41right next to that little table
3:40:44when Al made it in the garage and that
3:40:47board has like the one corner cut off
3:40:48right and that's the board they found
3:40:50they had South Perry Park Road you know
3:40:52they're in Douglas County that board
3:40:55with blood stains on it and it proved to
3:40:57be gannon's blood and leticia's DNA was
3:40:59also on it
3:41:01basically just uh more photos of the
3:41:036627 Mandan Drive address majority of
3:41:06them yes sir um are they all fair and
3:41:08accurate representations of that house
3:41:10yes sir I want to move forward mission
3:41:11of 13 through 31 and permission to
3:41:13publish Mr talini
3:41:20coupled and I'm referring to you in 1920
3:41:25I'm sorry yeah 21. I I think there's
3:41:28going to be there needs to be more
3:41:29foundation made for those photos but the
3:41:31rest of them I don't have a good catch
3:41:33so those are coming later so it's 13
3:41:35through 18 and then 21-31 my apologies
3:41:37okay let's go there 13 through 18 and 21
3:41:39through 31 do you have an injection you
3:41:42know all right those photos will be
3:41:43admitted go ahead and permission to
3:41:45publish those photos are you may go
3:41:46ahead
3:41:59all right so we've got 13 displayed on
3:42:02the screen there describe what we're
3:42:03looking at there so if you can see over
3:42:05here this carpet this is where we came
3:42:06in the front door and I said there was a
3:42:07wall reading down the stairs and this is
3:42:09the stairway to the basement
3:42:11people's number 14.
3:42:15so uh yeah I forgot to mention the
3:42:17stairs kind of do a wrap around so we
3:42:19came down the stairs and now we're
3:42:20looking down into the basement we had a
3:42:21little computer area here
3:42:24um but yeah that's the basement entryway
3:42:26and 15.
3:42:28so coming down the stairs to the right
3:42:30this is what you would have seen a
3:42:31little I call it the downstairs living
3:42:32room
3:42:34so TV sofa that kind of a bike and then
3:42:37the dogs you know was over here
3:42:38and then it's you know mementos you can
3:42:40see college degrees and pictures of the
3:42:42family and stuff was it typical that you
3:42:44all would spend time as a family in this
3:42:46room
3:42:47yeah I mean I watched a lot of movies
3:42:49with the kids down there but um we did
3:42:50upstairs as well so with the kids spend
3:42:52time on their own down there oh yeah
3:42:54you can see his Nintendo switch right
3:42:56here that was his bride and joy and uh
3:42:58we also had a PlayStation and they would
3:43:00watch movies and saw the gaming and
3:43:01stuff typically to
3:43:03Place downstairs just to the right of
3:43:05that photo uh was our hallway that went
3:43:07back to that back bedroom yeah it's hard
3:43:08to see you can kind of see a little uh
3:43:10increase right here that's the corner
3:43:11and it goes into uh Harley's room and in
3:43:14her bathroom area and there's another
3:43:15closet right there okay and then
3:43:17people's exhibit 16.
3:43:21yeah so this would have been the couch
3:43:23we just saw um in the other picture and
3:43:25then this is just the back corner
3:43:27um I guess it would have been like the
3:43:28northwest corner of the basement I don't
3:43:30know but um but yeah and then you sort
3:43:33of uh started to point at it there but
3:43:34there's a blackish Square there in the
3:43:36center of that carpet yes sir oh
3:43:38just backing up a little bit
3:43:41um in January of 2020
3:43:43um specifically January 25th and 26th
3:43:45which would be a Saturday and Sunday
3:43:47were you at home on that weekend no I
3:43:50actually uh
3:43:51it's kind of hard to explain my duty
3:43:52schedule but every other week I work
3:43:54Friday Saturday Sunday and that week I
3:43:55actually have the work day shift on a
3:43:57Friday and Saturday and then I left town
3:43:58on Sunday so I was at work all day
3:44:00Saturday came home uh the defendant and
3:44:03my mom was in town and the defendant and
3:44:05I and my mom and the kids ate dinner and
3:44:07then my mom was leaving that night so I
3:44:08took her to the airport in Denver
3:44:10um for her flight and then I stayed in
3:44:12the airport I slept across from the
3:44:14ticket counter on the floor there and
3:44:15then I because I had early morning
3:44:17flight to go to Oklahoma for training
3:44:18for two weeks so so when did you
3:44:21actually drive up to Denver and I'm
3:44:22assuming you mean uh dia Denver Airport
3:44:25yeah yeah uh so I mean I get off I don't
3:44:27think I got off early that evening I
3:44:29usually get off at 1800 or 6 p.m and uh
3:44:32it was a 15 minute drive home or so um
3:44:35we ate dinner and then no later than
3:44:37eight o'clock I would assume I don't
3:44:38remember exactly what time Mom's flight
3:44:39left via but so you drive mom up to the
3:44:43airport and then you just stayed at the
3:44:44airport because you got a flight the
3:44:45next day at an early morning flight to
3:44:46uh through Dallas I think too lot in
3:44:48Oklahoma uh but yeah I did I just slept
3:44:50on my duffel bag or whatever right there
3:44:52there's a little seating area right
3:44:53across from the American Airlines ticket
3:44:54counter at DIA and I just laid down on
3:44:56the floor right there so when you left
3:44:57on Saturday evening whatever time it was
3:44:59who was left at the Mandan Drive
3:45:01residence uh the defendant and then uh
3:45:04Harley and Elena Gannon any other did
3:45:08you guys know that did you remember that
3:45:09that Al's mom was staying there the week
3:45:12before
3:45:12you know
3:45:14I'm just wondering how Leticia behaved
3:45:18during that time with her mother-in-law
3:45:20there
3:45:21and then L leaving the house with his
3:45:24mother and being like okay bye I'm going
3:45:26for I think it was a week or two he's
3:45:27gonna go away
3:45:29that is so scary to think like waves
3:45:31them off and then
3:45:33she attacks Ganon
3:45:36adults there not that I know always held
3:45:39us hardly at that time she would have
3:45:41been let's see 5102 and that was so she
3:45:43was uh 17. almost 18. how old was Gammon
3:45:4611. in Lena uh Elena was uh well her
3:45:49birthday's in January
3:45:51so sorry I'm doing math here's eight so
3:45:53you just turned eight okay you're doing
3:45:55math better than I could if I was
3:45:56sitting on a stand so thank you
3:45:58so um when you left the house on that
3:46:01Saturday evening to drive mom and
3:46:02yourself up to the DIA was that carpet
3:46:05like that when you left it was not no
3:46:06sir
3:46:07um did you talk to the defendant about
3:46:08that
3:46:10I believe she I well first did you talk
3:46:13to her about it I did talk to her she
3:46:15said there was an accident in the candle
3:46:16spill okay I don't know if it was Let Me
3:46:18Clear if I don't remember if it was over
3:46:19a text or over a phone call but there
3:46:20was a conversation about it at some time
3:46:22do you remember when you learned about a
3:46:24candle spill in a burn or whatever I
3:46:26confident that it was that Sunday night
3:46:28which would have been the 26th yeah
3:46:30either that or the next morning and is
3:46:33that what we're looking at there sort of
3:46:34a cut out area of that carpet as a
3:46:37result of whatever burn happened yeah
3:46:38what I was told was yeah there was a
3:46:40spill here but you can also see that she
3:46:43claimed there was a the defendant claim
3:46:44there's supposedly some candles spilled
3:46:46on the couch as well you can see those
3:46:47little spots there that's what she
3:46:48claimed that was
3:46:50did she ever say who cut that square out
3:46:51like that
3:46:53I when I got home I think there was
3:46:55something over so I don't I don't know
3:46:56if she ever the defendant ever told me
3:46:58that she had cut anything out I cannot
3:47:00remember specifically on that okay let's
3:47:02move on to people's exhibit 17.
3:47:05and all the stories start piling up here
3:47:08with light t-shirt right uh thank you so
3:47:10much Marissa tomorrows I really
3:47:12appreciate it we are here because of G's
3:47:13commentary
3:47:14oh yes thank you so much what are we
3:47:17looking at here so basically you're kind
3:47:19of standing by the TV almost now and
3:47:22then you're looking back to where we
3:47:23came down the stairs and this would have
3:47:25been that entryway into Harley's area
3:47:27once again the dog kennel we reference
3:47:29that in the computer area and this is
3:47:31what I call it the closet I forget how
3:47:32you referenced it with the boiler room
3:47:33or whatever I call the storage room okay
3:47:36uh unfinished area where furnace and
3:47:37that kind of thing yes sir okay and then
3:47:39where's gannon's room in relation to
3:47:40that so you have this behind this wall
3:47:42you just there's a little small little
3:47:44hallway as soon as you can hear you take
3:47:46a right and it leads into his bedroom
3:47:47okay people's good at 18.
3:47:52is that just a close review of into that
3:47:54storage room yeah now we're walking
3:47:55towards the storage room here and then
3:47:56you can see this little you know Gap
3:47:58here that's how you get into Gina's room
3:48:01people's 21.
3:48:04so just we'll have to turn the screen
3:48:06off for just a moment
3:48:09okay we're ready hold on
3:48:19okay
3:48:23so 21 is on the screen behind you now
3:48:24okay what are we looking at there
3:48:27so we've we've taken probably two or
3:48:29three steps into gannon's room now
3:48:31because we're kind of in the center this
3:48:32was his bed and
3:48:34um as I mentioned before you can see the
3:48:36remnants of when Lane I lived here those
3:48:37are definitely not gaining stickers but
3:48:39um his bed here
3:48:40um there's that table that I built for
3:48:42him for his toys and then there would
3:48:44also be another bed over on this side of
3:48:46the room um as we're looking at it to
3:48:47the right
3:48:48um this was a
3:48:50storm well or whatever I remember we're
3:48:52in the basement and I believe there was
3:48:53a ladder in this one going up to the
3:48:54backyard his closet we've been over here
3:48:56and I think he had a little TV as soon
3:48:58as you walk in the room to the left okay
3:49:00is that essentially what ganondram
3:49:02looked like when you got back from
3:49:03Oklahoma
3:49:05I don't remember if I walked down there
3:49:08immediately or not
3:49:09um I think I did but I don't remember
3:49:12specifically but that's about what it
3:49:13would have looked like okay that was a
3:49:14common appearance of his room so was his
3:49:16bed always sort of uh backed up into
3:49:18that corner yeah
3:49:20so very important how Al talks about the
3:49:23room orientation and all of that as well
3:49:25we'll listen now Gypsy says do you think
3:49:27they'll get into the iguardo stuff I'm
3:49:29assuming you mean right iguardo
3:49:32well that's a fictitious story but maybe
3:49:37maybe they will there is an iguardo on
3:49:39the potential witness list but we don't
3:49:41know if it's Eduardo or anything like
3:49:42that so I'm gonna stretch my legs make
3:49:45some coffee and everything but I'm Gonna
3:49:46Leave This playing for you and I will be
3:49:48right back
3:49:49it would have been typically pushed all
3:49:51the way up
3:49:52um against this wall and this will not
3:49:54pulled away for any reason does it
3:49:56appear there's a little Gap there in the
3:49:57it's hard to tell in this picture
3:49:58because the covers are kind of ruffled
3:50:01up but
3:50:02okay people's exhibit 23.
3:50:09do we need to pull down can you just not
3:50:10do it
3:50:14all right yeah between two first
3:50:15continuous
3:50:19so people's 22 what is that a picture of
3:50:21so now we're back in the master on the
3:50:23first floor on the main floor and uh
3:50:25We've walked into the master bathroom
3:50:26you can see the shower right here with
3:50:28the tile in the glass door and this
3:50:29would have been the defendant's closet
3:50:31um master closet if you will so all the
3:50:34clothes in there and whatever other
3:50:35things were in there pretty much belong
3:50:36to the defendant yeah so as I referenced
3:50:38earlier the the coat closet which is
3:50:40normally called is when you walk in
3:50:41that's where I kept my clothes in her
3:50:42because the defendant had a closet full
3:50:45of clothes and there was a room for mine
3:50:46okay and then people's 23.
3:50:49yeah this would have been just taking
3:50:51another step in where you can see you
3:50:52know just her close the defendants
3:50:54closing It Up shoes on the top rack
3:50:55there
3:50:56he was 24.
3:51:00uh what are we looking at that looks
3:51:03like uh
3:51:04that would have been the defendant's
3:51:05closet I believe because those were hair
3:51:06book bags
3:51:07and yeah you can see some of the same
3:51:09clothes we saw in the previous picture
3:51:10hanging up here so yeah that's the
3:51:11defendant's closet and her shoes there
3:51:13yeah her shoes I know the record shoes
3:51:15and then people's 25.
3:51:18uh that would have been as soon as you
3:51:19walk in the closet to the right of the
3:51:21same closet so I want to ask you some
3:51:23questions before we jump on to the next
3:51:24couple photos
3:51:27when did you learn
3:51:28um about getting again having something
3:51:32happen to him uh you mentioned hearing
3:51:34something from the defendant about the
3:51:36burn downstairs
3:51:37was there a point in time when you
3:51:39learned that he was missing
3:51:41yes I was in Oklahoma we had had our
3:51:44first day of class like I said I was
3:51:45scheduled to be there two weeks I just
3:51:46got out of first day of class went and
3:51:48ran
3:51:49um a couple miles whatever it was and
3:51:51then uh I was already back in my hotel
3:51:52room preparing for the next day and uh
3:51:55and whatever and then we started the
3:51:56conversation back and forth about he's
3:51:58not home yet we had specific times for
3:52:00them to be home um typically it was the
3:52:01street lights or something I used to do
3:52:02as a kid I had to be home in the street
3:52:03lights so we just implemented that and
3:52:05he hadn't come home in time and uh it
3:52:08was abnormal but it wasn't worrisome so
3:52:11um I don't know how much when we go to
3:52:12that so I'm going to ask you some
3:52:13follow-up questions about that when you
3:52:15say that he hadn't come home yet did you
3:52:17know that he hadn't come home or is this
3:52:18what the defendant was telling you yeah
3:52:19based on the conversation that I mean
3:52:20the defendant we're having of course I
3:52:21was in Oklahoma so I had no clue I'm
3:52:23just relying on trusting her
3:52:25that um he hadn't come back from his
3:52:27friend's house yet which is where she
3:52:28said he had been and what day was that
3:52:30that you heard this information this
3:52:31would have been the Monday so I believe
3:52:32was the 27th 27th do you know if he went
3:52:35to school on the 27th according to her
3:52:37he did not her being excuse me the
3:52:39defendant is going to defendant he did
3:52:40not because he was having stomach issues
3:52:41and he was sick which in my mind at that
3:52:44time is like why is he going his
3:52:45friend's house if he's that sick so it
3:52:47was a little confusing but
3:52:49would uh would it be typical if he was
3:52:51having uh digestive issues to stay home
3:52:52from school no sir okay so that by
3:52:54itself was out of the ordinary right
3:52:56and
3:52:57when did you find out that he was going
3:52:59to stay home from school
3:53:01I believe without having time stamps I
3:53:03believe was that morning and I think she
3:53:04sent me some photos saying you know
3:53:06gannon's home here he is or whatever yep
3:53:08and then when you found out from the
3:53:11defendant that he had potentially gone
3:53:12to a friend's house and hadn't come home
3:53:13you know what time that was
3:53:15I mean I don't know specifically
3:53:18without looking when that conversation
3:53:20started but it was it was already in the
3:53:22evening where I was when when
3:53:24um we started that conversation so you
3:53:25learn in the morning that Gannon doesn't
3:53:27go to school from the defendant because
3:53:29of stomach issues and then sometime in
3:53:30the evening you learned that he had gone
3:53:31to a friend's house and had not come in
3:53:32to come home and that all comes from the
3:53:34defender yes sir
3:53:37when did you get back to Colorado
3:53:39I
3:53:41um I came as soon as I can after I
3:53:43decided basically that there was
3:53:45something actually wrong so the 27th as
3:53:48soon as I decided he's missing I got to
3:53:49come home I had not to get ahead but I
3:53:52know I think the defendant had called
3:53:539-1-1 I don't know about when the police
3:53:55came to the house but I know I also
3:53:56called them and said hey what's going on
3:53:58my son's out there somewhere and at that
3:54:00point I called our tribal people and
3:54:02said I had an emergency ticket home and
3:54:04I left I had a buddy drive me to
3:54:05actually to Oklahoma City and I left
3:54:06from Oklahoma City Airport early the
3:54:08next morning so let's unpack that just a
3:54:10little bit sure so
3:54:13to your memory the defendant tells you
3:54:15that she called 9-1-1
3:54:16she did
3:54:18was it that specifically or was it
3:54:21accumulation of things that made you
3:54:22worried and decide to that you need to
3:54:23get back home and see what's going on
3:54:25yeah so like I said you know how deep
3:54:26you wanted me to go at that point I had
3:54:28also contacted numerous of gannon's
3:54:30friend's parents in the neighborhood
3:54:32that I knew um you know he would
3:54:34typically frequent their house and play
3:54:36with their kids and stuff and none of
3:54:37them had even seen him so then it
3:54:38started to become an issue there was
3:54:41also another Claim about some new friend
3:54:43on the school bus and some other stuff
3:54:45surrounding that I'm sure we'll get into
3:54:47um do you want me to go into that okay
3:54:48all right um there was that and so I
3:54:51started asking the parents about do you
3:54:52know any do you know this person's name
3:54:54or do you know anything about another
3:54:54person and so it became started
3:54:56compounding as you said to become more
3:54:58worsome so basically you're accumulating
3:55:00information and growing more worried is
3:55:02that what you're describing yes sir and
3:55:04then when you said you called your
3:55:05travel people do you mean you called the
3:55:06National Guard folks well we have like
3:55:07essential billing travel type agency
3:55:09that does all of our flights and stuff
3:55:11like that so I just called them I think
3:55:12it's called Sado I don't remember
3:55:13exactly but I called them um all my
3:55:15orders it has the emergency number so I
3:55:16just called that say I gotta go home
3:55:17this is happening okay I also call
3:55:20Landon in some of her family as well to
3:55:21try to notify them hey I'm going home
3:55:22something's wrong when did you actually
3:55:24then fly out of I think you said
3:55:26Oklahoma City yeah so one of my uh
3:55:28battle buddies or one of my guys in my
3:55:29class took me up to Oklahoma City
3:55:31because that was the only flight they
3:55:32could find
3:55:33um or the soonest flight they could find
3:55:34and um early the next morning I spent
3:55:36the night sitting in that once again
3:55:38right across from the ticket counter at
3:55:39Oklahoma City I don't remember the
3:55:40flight time so when you say the next
3:55:42morning is that January 28th Tuesday
3:55:43January 28th yes sir did you get any
3:55:45sleep that night no I just sat there and
3:55:46whatever
3:55:48did you fly back to DIA or did you fly
3:55:50to Colorado Springs
3:55:51I think I I don't remember exactly I
3:55:55knew I left Oklahoma City but I'm pretty
3:55:56sure I got back well I know I got back
3:55:57to Colorado Springs all the different
3:55:58legs I don't remember to be honest but I
3:56:00know I came into Colorado Springs so you
3:56:02remember being picked up from Colorado
3:56:03Springs Airport yes sir who picked you
3:56:05up the defender
3:56:07so let's talk about that just a little
3:56:08bit
3:56:10she have her own vehicle
3:56:12at that time I don't know what she drove
3:56:14to the airport based on asking the
3:56:16question did she have her own vehicle we
3:56:17went and got it well she went upstairs
3:56:19and got a rental car did she have her
3:56:20own vehicle that you all owned that she
3:56:22would typically Drive bad questions on
3:56:23my part does she have a vehicle that she
3:56:25would typically Drive oh does she have
3:56:26one at that time yeah she did it was a
3:56:28Volkswagen team line okay what color was
3:56:29it black okay what did she actually pick
3:56:31you up in at the airport uh like I said
3:56:33earlier she went upstairs I was down at
3:56:35the luggage carrier she went upstairs to
3:56:37get a rental vehicle okay did that seem
3:56:39odd to you absolutely
3:56:42at some point uh were you in contact
3:56:44with Landon with this news of Canada
3:56:46being missing absolutely and once I
3:56:48decided there was an issue and a
3:56:50legitimate issue uh I think I called her
3:56:52first can't get a hold of her and then I
3:56:53started calling her daddy and other
3:56:54family members to try to get a hold of
3:56:56her but I did talk to her Monday on the
3:56:5827th that evening while still in uh um
3:57:02at Fort Sill and then I'm sure I don't
3:57:04remember exactly along the way but she
3:57:05said I'll be there and she started
3:57:07getting her travel Arrangements set to
3:57:08get there so did she actually then come
3:57:10out to Colorado she did where did she
3:57:11stay when she came to Colorado initially
3:57:13I don't remember how many nights I think
3:57:15she stayed at my house um for a night or
3:57:17two I don't remember specifics uh
3:57:19majority of the time she she got a hotel
3:57:21in town it wasn't long that we all
3:57:23stayed in the house because we had to
3:57:24leave so when when she got to town and I
3:57:27think you said did she come straight to
3:57:28your house I saw her for the first time
3:57:30uh at the Sheriff's Office El Paso
3:57:32County Sheriff's Office downtown okay
3:57:33well was she staying somewhere in
3:57:35Colorado dude did she to stay did she go
3:57:37to your house after so yeah so she for
3:57:40my recollection she landed
3:57:42came straight to the Sheriff's Office I
3:57:43don't know if she did anything in
3:57:44between but I saw her Sheriff's Office
3:57:45we left there I think in my truck and
3:57:47went home to my residence 6627.
3:57:50did the fact that Landon was going to be
3:57:53staying in your house at 6627 cause
3:57:55tension between you and the defender
3:57:57from her perspective I can't well I
3:57:59can't speak for her perspective I didn't
3:58:00see their need for tension because
3:58:01there's a little boy missing and we got
3:58:02all we gotta fight together at that
3:58:04point okay so but was there tension
3:58:07between the two of you over that
3:58:08decision to allow Landon to be at the
3:58:09house I believe it created some tension
3:58:11in in her mind okay I didn't I didn't
3:58:14have that tension no sir
3:58:16a disagreement though did she get mad at
3:58:17you for allowing Landon yeah we
3:58:19disagreed on that on that note yes okay
3:58:21uh at some point then did that cause the
3:58:24defendant to actually move out of the
3:58:26Mandan Drive house
3:58:27and I'm not asking you for specific days
3:58:29just a yes or no I believe I believe
3:58:30that's what she said caused her
3:58:31defendant cause that caused her to move
3:58:33out yes it's unclear if he's speculating
3:58:36as to what was going on and uh the
3:58:38defendant's mind or this was actually a
3:58:39verbalized to him if it was verbalized
3:58:41feature speculating is what she was
3:58:43thinking I think it's inappropriate I
3:58:44agree I don't think that he can testify
3:58:46as for what she was thinking at the time
3:58:47he can testify as to what she did he can
3:58:49testify as to what she said and that's
3:58:51what I'm trying to get across here and
3:58:53I'm actually asking for a physical thing
3:58:54did she physically go to the house and
3:58:56take things out of the house and move
3:58:57out she did absolutely roughly when did
3:58:59that occur uh
3:59:01within the first week okay I don't
3:59:03remember exact days I'm sure we'll get
3:59:04to that okay and so if we can put up on
3:59:06people's exhibit 26.
3:59:08foreign
3:59:1126 hasn't been admitted yet
3:59:14uh I moved for admission of 21 through
3:59:17oh you're ready one that's right yep I'm
3:59:19sorry whoops
3:59:22go ahead all right what is depicted in
3:59:25people's 26 uh this would have been the
3:59:27defendant's uh closet in the master
3:59:30um master bedroom bathroom area
3:59:32um looks like it's been emptied out
3:59:34okay so did you move anything out of
3:59:36that closet no sir I did not who did uh
3:59:38the defendant
3:59:40there's still some things that were left
3:59:42behind it looks like yesterday are those
3:59:44some of the defendants items as well
3:59:48it may be hard to tell but it's hard to
3:59:50tell I mean
3:59:52I mean that you may be specific here I
3:59:54mean some of that stuff is my my items
3:59:56but so I'm asking more about the things
3:59:58hanging it looks like there's a belt or
3:59:59something and then some sort of a jacket
4:00:01maybe this belt looks like it would have
4:00:02been mine actually I remember it because
4:00:04I had that little crease in it and I do
4:00:05I cannot tell what jacket that is to be
4:00:07specific about it okay and then people's
4:00:09exhibit 27.
4:00:13is this another view of that same closet
4:00:14yes so that would have been my sweater I
4:00:16don't know who's what shirt that is
4:00:20um and those are linens from our bedroom
4:00:22Linens from your bedroom yeah up here in
4:00:24the top corner from our bed okay and
4:00:26then
4:00:26um so
4:00:29looks like
4:00:30um you said the defendant came in there
4:00:32and moved all those things out yes sir
4:00:34uh did you you didn't help her at all no
4:00:36so there were other people helping her
4:00:38okay
4:00:40and then I want to jump now to people's
4:00:42exhibit 28.
4:00:45what is this so this was Harley's room
4:00:48and uh the door to Holly's room would
4:00:50have been over in this area and then
4:00:51that's a door into her closet okay and
4:00:54then people's 29.
4:00:56and that's walking into her closet it
4:00:58looks like her being Harley Harley yes
4:01:00I'm sorry so the uh clothes and the
4:01:02shoes and whatnot is that all Harleys
4:01:04shoes yes sir
4:01:05and then when the defendant moved out uh
4:01:08the week of that 27th uh did Harley also
4:01:11move out Harley did yes sir let's move
4:01:13on to people's exhibit 30.
4:01:15is that Harley's clothes hanging in that
4:01:17closet yes sir
4:01:19and people's 31.
4:01:21is that the way the closet looked after
4:01:23Harley and Leticia moved out later the
4:01:24week of the 27th yes sir
4:01:27you can take that down Andrew thank you
4:01:32I want to go through and have you
4:01:33describe for us how you all would
4:01:35communicate
4:01:37did each person basically in the family
4:01:38and when I say each person I mean you
4:01:39the defendant Harley have cell phones
4:01:42we all three of us did yes sir with
4:01:44separate phone numbers separate phone
4:01:45numbers and then was there a fourth
4:01:47phone number that was assigned to Gannon
4:01:49and Lena yes sir it was like the kid's
4:01:50phone yes sir
4:01:51what was your phone number back then my
4:01:53phone number uh
4:01:55843-478-6714 who was the provider for
4:01:57that phone number I was I'm sorry the
4:02:00cell phone provider oh at T okay and
4:02:02then what about uh ganon's or the kids
4:02:04phone uh 843 I remember it was six seven
4:02:07two four because it was just one digit
4:02:08off of my end I don't remember the
4:02:09middle three Okay so
4:02:12okay everyone
4:02:13uh court is gonna start in 40 minutes 38
4:02:19actually I'm sorry there's no countdown
4:02:21timer right now because I'm coming back
4:02:22I'm just busy Brewing some coffee okay
4:02:23making some fresh uh French pressed
4:02:26coffee so we are busy watching the
4:02:28replay of day two of el Stark's
4:02:30testimony because in hindsight it's just
4:02:32so interesting to hear all these facts
4:02:34again I spent um some time yesterday
4:02:36going over day two and three of the
4:02:37trial again and now we're going over
4:02:40together
4:02:41843 area code you have to say yes or no
4:02:44yes okay and then the last four six
4:02:46seven two six seven two four okay
4:02:48who was the cell phone provider for that
4:02:50phone a t
4:02:51and then let's talk about Harley you
4:02:54remember her phone number at that time
4:02:57I don't remember okay you know who the
4:03:00cell phone provider is also 8.3 area
4:03:03code for sure what is 843 area code
4:03:04that's uh coastal South Carolina at the
4:03:07time
4:03:08and then
4:03:10um
4:03:10what about the defendant did she also
4:03:12have a cell phone she did it was a cell
4:03:14phone provider for that phone a t you
4:03:16know her phone number yeah 84 yes sir
4:03:17843-655-7460
4:03:22during the course of the investigation
4:03:23uh did law enforcement ask you for
4:03:26access to the phone associated with the
4:03:28kids or gain install yes sir
4:03:39we'll come back to that uh we've already
4:03:41talked a little bit about vehicles
4:03:44um what was your vehicle I had a because
4:03:47I believe it was 2016 but Nissan
4:03:48Frontier it was red had a six inch lift
4:03:50on it some big mud tires
4:03:52was it a Titan no there's a frontier
4:03:54Nissan Frontier
4:03:55and you said what year was it I believe
4:03:572016. you know 2015 or 2016.
4:04:00who typically drove that vehicle
4:04:02typically I did anybody else drive it uh
4:04:04the defendant from time to time
4:04:07did she like driving it I I don't
4:04:09remember ever enjoying driving it okay
4:04:12and then what about Harley we saw a
4:04:13picture of it but that was a white VW
4:04:15jet I think you said yes sir 2018 I
4:04:17believe
4:04:18and then what about the defendant she
4:04:20had uh I think it was 2019 but a Tiguan
4:04:23a black Tiguan with black rims and kind
4:04:25of blacked out uh tint on her windows
4:04:28you all own that vehicle no that was a
4:04:29lease
4:04:30so now I want to jump back to what we
4:04:32were talking about earlier when she
4:04:33picked you up at the airport did she
4:04:35give you a reason did she say why she
4:04:36wanted to drive a rental vehicle as
4:04:38opposed to her normal vehicle yeah her
4:04:40reasoning was we would be doing a lot of
4:04:41searching and driving around looking for
4:04:42Ganon and be due to her vehicle being
4:04:45the lease she didn't want to go over the
4:04:46mileage on whatever those requirements
4:04:48or allotments were
4:04:50and they were here that she didn't want
4:04:52to add mileage to her Tiguan right but
4:04:57then you drove all the way to freaking
4:04:58Douglas County right anyway so there's
4:05:01that story as well and yes someone in
4:05:03chat was saying there is a story about
4:05:05the teacher and Edgar sorry about that I
4:05:08actually forgot about it when I covered
4:05:09this case a year ago you're right
4:05:12there's an iguardo and there's also an
4:05:15Edgar so let me just quickly tell you
4:05:17guys that it says during a jailhouse
4:05:19interview with crime online in September
4:05:21of 2020 that's when Al also divorced uh
4:05:24Leticia Leticia explained that Al
4:05:26allegedly owed someone named Edgar money
4:05:29and Gannon disappeared after the money
4:05:31was never paid she claimed she knew
4:05:34about Edgar but at the time went along
4:05:36with her husband because he claimed that
4:05:37he would pull some strings to help her
4:05:39out
4:05:40we have to add Edgar to the characters
4:05:43that she's made up oh my word okay
4:05:47what kind of vehicle did she run
4:05:50yeah
4:05:51a little small I don't remember I think
4:05:53maybe I don't remember exactly what it
4:05:54was but it was a small little
4:05:56um the band what color was it Leaf
4:05:58silver was it white maybe maybe white
4:06:00you don't have a good memory of that I
4:06:02don't because we just parked it in the
4:06:03driveway and drove my truck around so
4:06:05which made totally no sense
4:06:07so let's talk about
4:06:09um that did you actually own the pickup
4:06:10at that time I did not a lease issue no
4:06:12it was I was paying the note off but I
4:06:13mean I owned it it was my name
4:06:17why was it um strange to you the way you
4:06:20said this earlier that there was a
4:06:21rented vehicle as opposed to her normal
4:06:23Tiguan vehicle that she was picking you
4:06:25up in
4:06:26once again and I know I've made the
4:06:27statement already about something else
4:06:29but in in these moments when it's it's
4:06:31an emergency things like miles on your
4:06:33car don't matter it doesn't matter what
4:06:35car we drive if we're going searching
4:06:37um so it just and in the moment I'm just
4:06:39like whatever just do what you want but
4:06:40you know but yeah it didn't make any
4:06:41sense did she tell you where the Tiguan
4:06:43was uh she did she said it was um so you
4:06:47know because they asked and brings back
4:06:48remember I asked how did you get to the
4:06:49airport if your car's not here well I
4:06:50parked it at French Elementary School
4:06:52which is where she was employed and one
4:06:54of my co-workers brought me a former
4:06:56whatever it was one of my co-workers
4:06:57brought me to the airport dropped me off
4:06:59so just so we're clear you asked her
4:07:02about that and she told you that one of
4:07:04her co-workers drove her to the airport
4:07:06and dropped her off absolutely is French
4:07:07Elementary School close to the Mandan
4:07:09Drive address
4:07:10I mean it's on the south into town but I
4:07:12mean it's it's a couple miles away okay
4:07:15did you ever drive over to the French
4:07:16Elementary School to look for that
4:07:17vehicle I did did you find it there I
4:07:19did not did you find that on absolutely
4:07:23let's talk about
4:07:25um gannon's relationship with the
4:07:26defendant how would you describe that
4:07:28relationship
4:07:30trusting
4:07:32um
4:07:33I would I'm comfortable saying I think
4:07:35he had love in his heart for her
4:07:37um I don't think he was afraid of her
4:07:38any fear for her
4:07:43one of the things about Gannon that is
4:07:45special and I think it's
4:07:46especially about a lot of young boys he
4:07:48absolutely loved his mom and he had some
4:07:50of that same love for Teacher too
4:07:52so he was a mama's boy he was absolutely
4:08:00how was um I guess who would discipline
4:08:03the kids and when I say the kids I'm
4:08:04talking about the little ones Selena and
4:08:05Gannon uh both of us both myself and the
4:08:08defendant
4:08:19I want to get into now your relationship
4:08:21with the defendant we talked about how
4:08:23you met her
4:08:26how would you describe the relationship
4:08:28was a loving relationship what was it
4:08:32um at what point well let's start at the
4:08:33beginning I think loving is a good
4:08:35example was fun as as you brought up I
4:08:38was coming off of a divorce so yeah it
4:08:41was fresh it was new I had a good time
4:08:42you know I didn't have custody of the
4:08:44kids at that point so we were a little
4:08:46bit more free and you know things we
4:08:47could do
4:08:48held were again in Elena when you met
4:08:50the defendant when I met her yep
4:08:52um
4:08:54two and five I believe
4:08:57I think that's right
4:09:02when did you first move in together
4:09:04I so my Officer school took me through
4:09:09um
4:09:10August I had to go to a two-week phase
4:09:11in Alabama we uh Landon and I sold the
4:09:14house and he's either I think I signed
4:09:15the papers and it sold while I was gone
4:09:17but right in that same time frame Late
4:09:18July early August when I got back is
4:09:20when I I might have moved my stuff into
4:09:22where we started renting a house but I
4:09:24moved in late August uh
4:09:2914.
4:09:35when did you first meet Harley
4:09:37uh earlier in 2014 uh I maybe March
4:09:41uh I remember well let me back up I I
4:09:44had exposure to her at the softball
4:09:46games and stuff but I never really you
4:09:47know had a conversation you know with
4:09:48her but when I first met her I actually
4:09:51remember helping her doing her homework
4:09:52the first time I met her um she was
4:09:53doing some vocabulary I don't know why
4:09:55that stands out but yeah I was at
4:09:56teacher's apartment and uh spring of
4:09:592014.
4:10:13when were you officially commissioned to
4:10:15the National Guard
4:10:17I took my commission June 9th 2016.
4:10:22did you change your duty assignment
4:10:24roughly around that same time
4:10:26yeah I was in that's regards as you
4:10:27mentioned is mostly reserved so before
4:10:29my Commissioned I was enlisted uh I made
4:10:31it up to some first class E7 and in in
4:10:34active guard status I had to resign my
4:10:36full-time in order to take my commission
4:10:38and then I was in the reserve status for
4:10:40about uh eight months nine months before
4:10:43I went to Alaska
4:10:44okay so what I'm asking is um did you
4:10:46have to change where you were living and
4:10:47where you were assigned with the
4:10:48National Guard after you took your
4:10:49commission not immediately did you at
4:10:51some point move to Columbia South
4:10:52Carolina I didn't move there I had when
4:10:55I uh as soon as I commissioned like I
4:10:56said it's kind of hard to explain
4:10:57National Guard's a little different I
4:10:58resigned my full-time status but you can
4:11:01get on temporary orders and so I was on
4:11:02temporary orders in Colombia for a
4:11:04couple months um but I was close enough
4:11:06where I could commute um you know half
4:11:08the time or whatever okay um but I just
4:11:10stayed at the armory in Columbia South
4:11:12Carolina so that's when you say you stay
4:11:14there that's where you were working I
4:11:15worked there and then I got a you know
4:11:16caught and stayed in the Next Room down
4:11:18the hall or whatever it was
4:11:20and then the house that you mentioned
4:11:22earlier in Myrtle Beach South Carolina
4:11:23uh did you and the defendant buy that
4:11:25house right around that same time yes
4:11:26sir
4:11:29do you remember going to Oklahoma
4:11:30roughly around that same time as well I
4:11:32did I wasn't slated to go until January
4:11:34and this trip Oklahoma would have been
4:11:36for six months and this was for my basic
4:11:37officer course not to be confused with
4:11:39the two weeks in 2020.
4:11:41um so I I went there I was slated to go
4:11:43in January but somebody dropped out so I
4:11:44was able to go I think the end of July
4:11:46and it took me through December
4:11:48um just shy of six months did you take
4:11:50um either Dana and Elena with you to
4:11:51Oklahoma for the six-month period I did
4:11:53not at that point they uh their mother
4:11:55still had majority custody so but they
4:11:57did come and visit there was a few
4:11:58holidays or whatever and I came home a
4:12:00couple times to visit during that that
4:12:01time period what about the defendant did
4:12:03she ever come to Oklahoma as well as
4:12:05Harley
4:12:06did she ever move to Oklahoma during
4:12:07that six month period with you she never
4:12:09moved I I don't remember her thing at
4:12:11maximum a week I don't even think she
4:12:13stayed that long at any point
4:12:14was it that year 2016 when you learned
4:12:17of the job up in Alaska I did while I
4:12:19was in Oklahoma I learned about
4:12:20was that something that interested you
4:12:22absolutely would you apply to that
4:12:23position absolutely
4:12:26when you finish that training in in
4:12:28Oklahoma in 2016 where did you go after
4:12:30finishing that training I came uh home
4:12:33uh say home but came to our the house
4:12:34that it's been ni owned in Myrtle Beach
4:12:36okay
4:12:46when did you actually get transferred up
4:12:47to Alaska if you can tell us yeah so I I
4:12:50mean I spoke to this earlier I came here
4:12:53for schooling I got here I think April
4:12:551st did two months here and then I took
4:12:57the trip with the kids up to Alaska so I
4:12:59think June 9th or something like that I
4:13:00got up there but I was on orders in the
4:13:03Alaska guard on my way here
4:13:05um and then just did my training so you
4:13:06said June what year are we talking about
4:13:07uh 2017 once again yeah what was the uh
4:13:11I'm a Navy guy trying to understand
4:13:12National Guard uh is it are they based
4:13:14on Sports what are they called uh most
4:13:16of the time your typical National Guard
4:13:18duty is going to be at Armory like a
4:13:19local Reserve Center or something
4:13:21they're all over Colorado Springs uh
4:13:22this one is a little different because
4:13:23it was an active Guard unit uh which is
4:13:26kind of rare in the guard but uh it was
4:13:28at Fort Greeley Alaska I was stationed
4:13:29and lived on base
4:13:31so how long were you stationed up at
4:13:33Fort Greeley uh just shy of two years uh
4:13:35like as I mentioned I got hired on in
4:13:36March I went to my school here and then
4:13:39I
4:13:39um that was 2017 and then February 2019
4:13:42I was transferred here
4:13:44was it roughly around that time that you
4:13:47um actually filed for custody of Ganon
4:13:49Atlanta
4:13:49no that would I think I actually filed
4:13:53um for custody before I left to Alaska
4:13:54so is that the temperature you're
4:13:56talking about yeah so when did you file
4:13:57for a custody of gaining like February
4:13:59or March of 2017 I don't remember
4:14:01specific dates but it was before I was
4:14:02leaving yes sir
4:14:09if you're all wondering what are we
4:14:11doing the banner tells you l stock
4:14:13testimony day two of the trial replay
4:14:15that's why we're just going over again
4:14:17because in hindsight very interesting
4:14:20um we've gone over his calls in a
4:14:21six-hour stream before but we've never
4:14:23gone over together because I didn't
4:14:24stream day two his testimony together
4:14:27even though I've watched it this will be
4:14:28round three for me
4:14:30got lots of notes already it's I hope
4:14:31you're finding it interesting in the
4:14:33lunch break today uh so in 25 minutes
4:14:36the court will resume so we won't be
4:14:39able to watch all of this but at least
4:14:41um we're hearing some information just
4:14:43as a refresh do you remember
4:14:45um a specific
4:14:47incident occurring prior to you leaving
4:14:50for training where you and the defendant
4:14:52got into an argument uh yes 2017 20s
4:15:02is there more you can give me I can't I
4:15:05can't ask you leading questions I gotta
4:15:06ask an open-ended question yeah I mean
4:15:07yes I think we did get into an argument
4:15:09a verbal argument about me taking the
4:15:11job in Alaska that was a a sort of Point
4:15:14attention for sure did she tell you
4:15:16whether she was supportive of you taking
4:15:17that job in Alaska or not I don't
4:15:19remember specifically if she said
4:15:20supportive but all indications were no
4:15:23um was that the sort of the source of
4:15:25the fight um I would say yes that was
4:15:27the source of mini verbal art
4:15:28disagreements and arguments in that time
4:15:29period were you all living together at
4:15:31that particular time yes when this fight
4:15:33occurred yes sir in the house in Myrtle
4:15:34Beach okay did the defendant take
4:15:36specific action regarding your
4:15:37belongings in the house yeah the day
4:15:39yesterday the day I was supposed to
4:15:40leave
4:15:41um to come to Colorado for training uh
4:15:43which would have been late March I don't
4:15:44remember the specific date yeah she
4:15:46threw all my stuff in the front yard and
4:15:47whatever just said I'm done with you
4:15:48kind of thing said that so you said she
4:15:51said I'm done with you kind of thing and
4:15:53I'm not quoting directly but that's the
4:15:54theme of it I'm done you can take your
4:15:56stuff and go and whatever
4:15:57did the obviously the relationship
4:15:59didn't end then is that right no I think
4:16:01it was actually about a week or eight or
4:16:03nine days before we talked again not a
4:16:05lot of communications I did talk there
4:16:07the whole trip here and then it was a
4:16:08couple days after I got here I think so
4:16:09yeah it was tough times
4:16:12you mentioned earlier that uh the
4:16:14defendant actually did come up to Alaska
4:16:16yes sir when did that occur
4:16:18various times I don't know I don't
4:16:20remember specifically when she first
4:16:22showed up I had already been there for a
4:16:23while
4:16:24um but she did come and then stayed for
4:16:26a week or two two or three weeks here a
4:16:27month I mean it was she never moved
4:16:29there I never felt like she moved there
4:16:31I should say well
4:16:33and I'm probably just asking a bad
4:16:34question but was there a period of time
4:16:35where a scene does if uh there was a
4:16:37move on where she actually brought
4:16:39Harley with her to Alaska yes there was
4:16:40a period of time and this would have
4:16:41been uh that first summer because what
4:16:44she told me was that she was looking for
4:16:46a job at the school and that she had
4:16:48enrolled Harley at the school uh in
4:16:50Delta Junction is the town but that she
4:16:51was enrolled there and then you know
4:16:54that's where we're at Delta Junction
4:16:55Alaska yeah which is where for Greeley
4:16:56The Base is located Junction so did her
4:17:00the defendants and Harley actually come
4:17:02to Alaska during that time frame they
4:17:04did there's been some time on July June
4:17:07or July I don't remember how long they
4:17:07stayed like I said but did um did the
4:17:10defendant ever tell you I thought did
4:17:12you say something no okay sorry uh did
4:17:15the um
4:17:17the defendant ever tell you whether she
4:17:18enjoyed being in Alaska
4:17:21she actually told me the opposite quite
4:17:22a bit that she hated it there that way
4:17:23she'd give it back to Russia so give
4:17:25Alaska back to Russia just give it to
4:17:27him because it's so bad of him
4:17:29foreign
4:17:49she would use manipulation uh Sherry
4:17:52says I almost think she was truly
4:17:53worried about mileage on a VW
4:17:55from 6627 Mandan Drive to South Perry
4:17:57Park Road that's not counting going to
4:17:59the airport as well that is uh 42 miles
4:18:03or so
4:18:04so I mean she may have somewhat been
4:18:06worried about it with her lease and
4:18:08everything like that but she should
4:18:11she drove pretty far
4:18:13you know in her Tiguan I think she's
4:18:15more worried about
4:18:17people catching her doing what she's
4:18:18doing in a Tiguan you know what I mean
4:18:21she thought she was so smart and then
4:18:22today we heard from all these um FBI
4:18:25special agents with all the telematics
4:18:26and the all the information the
4:18:28infotainment and the chips and all the
4:18:31data that they were able to extract of
4:18:32course and she's just like whoa yeah
4:18:35didn't think of that okay this time
4:18:37period that we're talking about where
4:18:38you were in Alaska and she's telling you
4:18:41that she hated it
4:18:43um did she manipulate that situation to
4:18:45try to get you to leave that Duty
4:18:47station yes sir at the end she did when
4:18:49you say the end what do you mean by the
4:18:50end but that's what her manipulating a
4:18:53situation is what led me to leave Alaska
4:18:55when did the manipulation in that regard
4:18:57change or or cause you to start to leave
4:18:59Alaska that specific uh incident or set
4:19:01of incidents would have been
4:19:03in the fall of 2018.
4:19:06what was the what was the nature of that
4:19:08manipulation reaction 404b
4:19:11Council approach please
4:19:31investigation about any aspect of this
4:19:33case
4:19:34um and if we can have everyone back in
4:19:35the Drew room ready to go at 10 40 we
4:19:37should be able
4:19:38to start on time at that point all right
4:19:40would you do it please okay now let me
4:19:42just see what the time is because
4:19:43there's 20 minutes to go
4:19:44so this could be a good point to
4:19:48um to break from this what do you guys
4:19:50think about that
4:19:52because oh do you want to keep listening
4:19:54to it I don't mind I thought maybe I
4:19:55could tell you about this Edgar my word
4:19:58Edgar I forgot about that never Tiguan
4:20:01Edgar oh my gosh
4:20:04and there's another article that someone
4:20:06sent me as well
4:20:08so we could go over two articles if you
4:20:09want real quick as you'll see here
4:20:11oh yeah yeah we've seen that one
4:20:17okay so I'm just seeing what you guys
4:20:19are saying there
4:20:21it's good and listen re-listing to it I
4:20:23don't know when I was re-listening to it
4:20:24yesterday I'm like what
4:20:26so many things that I missed I mean we
4:20:28hear it but when you hear it the second
4:20:29time or the third time I mean in
4:20:31Psychology they say people really only
4:20:32hear something properly the seventh time
4:20:35we will not be listening to the teacher
4:20:37stuff's calls for seven seven times over
4:20:39no no we won't okay you guys say you
4:20:43okay whoa
4:20:44hold on we're gonna ask
4:20:47um
4:20:54yeah Edgar uh Jay is like Edgar there's
4:20:58an Edgar you guys so let me put this
4:21:01here quickly
4:21:02so you can see
4:21:06right so this is a jailhouse interview
4:21:08the teacher staff describes new version
4:21:10of beloved Colorado boy Gannon Stark's
4:21:12death the teacher staff a Colorado Woman
4:21:14Behind Bars waiting for trial which
4:21:16we're watching now the trial you guys
4:21:17for her death
4:21:19um sorry for gannon's death just hold on
4:21:22here we go okay so this was obviously
4:21:25September 3rd 2020 okay in September is
4:21:28when Al divorced Leticia so interesting
4:21:31timing that this is when she's gonna
4:21:32throw him under the bus right so it says
4:21:36the teacher style a Colorado Woman
4:21:37Behind Bars a waiting trial for the
4:21:39death of her 11 year old stepson
4:21:40maintains her innocence although she's
4:21:42been charged with first degree murder
4:21:43and a slew of related felonies in an
4:21:45exclusive interview with crime online
4:21:47Stout who is currently incarcerated at
4:21:49the El Paso County Jail in Colorado
4:21:50alleged that her strange husband Albert
4:21:53style the father of Ganon should be in
4:21:55jail for manslaughter
4:21:57whoa
4:21:59what I completely forgot about this
4:22:02Edgar one thank you gypsy
4:22:04um for reminding me of that I suppose
4:22:06like Edgar no Eduardo no okay yeah Edgar
4:22:08is too there too although she didn't
4:22:10give specifics on why Albert stock
4:22:12deserves a manslaughter charge she did
4:22:14claim that he owed someone named Edgar
4:22:16money which led to gannon's
4:22:19disappearance
4:22:21wow so there's that you can see it there
4:22:24with your own eyes
4:22:26according to leticia's talk however
4:22:27she's been covering for others hoping
4:22:29that the full truth that's not sugar
4:22:32coated would come out
4:22:34yes we have to add another character
4:22:37him Albert Stark and Edgar was getting
4:22:40into it because he owed Edgar some money
4:22:43we had the money that should have been
4:22:45paid from the cruise what style said
4:22:49Albert made a stupid decision you know
4:22:50it just wasn't you know a good situation
4:22:53so you know he told me a story to tell
4:22:56the police you know and I just didn't
4:22:58know what to say
4:22:59yeah can she go any lower
4:23:03that's what USA kiwis
4:23:06I I think she I think she can James
4:23:09likes Bob alert spot single point of
4:23:11blame wow Leticia has um
4:23:15multiple several point of blame never
4:23:17mind single she's like all of them all
4:23:19of them
4:23:20star also claimed that her estranged
4:23:21husband told her that she didn't have a
4:23:24child to lose and that he had many law
4:23:26enforcement and military officials that
4:23:28could assist if she didn't snitch
4:23:32oh my gosh Leticia stuff explained that
4:23:36she went along with what her husband
4:23:38said because he claimed he would pull
4:23:40some strings to help her out
4:23:42where are they the police messed up is
4:23:45January 27th now here we go with another
4:23:48story so brace yourselves we've got 15
4:23:50or so minutes before court starts again
4:23:51okay
4:23:53so buckle up for another story time okay
4:23:56are we ready
4:23:57here we go
4:24:00where are they the police messed up is
4:24:02January 27th he was on a train you see
4:24:05what I'm saying
4:24:07no Leticia nobody sees what you're
4:24:09saying he was on a train you see what
4:24:11I'm saying I'm thinking that's their
4:24:13thing but but it's not because they came
4:24:16to my house with hours of body cam there
4:24:18was nothing like you check my car on the
4:24:21body cam so you take everything you law
4:24:23enforcement just don't like it there was
4:24:25no way you know what I mean
4:24:28oh I love not because it's a it's a
4:24:31terrible case I love it Leticia okay
4:24:34oh my word it just it drives me mad this
4:24:37is crazy you know what I mean and I
4:24:39always make this reference just because
4:24:40it always stuck with me when I heard
4:24:42that Jeffrey Dahmer was explaining to
4:24:44the police
4:24:46trigger warning
4:24:48how he peeled people's faces off okay
4:24:50bodies and then he says
4:24:52you know what I mean like after
4:24:54explaining that how he did it he says to
4:24:57them you know what I mean and they look
4:24:58at each other they're like no we really
4:25:00don't know what you mean so I don't know
4:25:02we never see a criminal saying you know
4:25:04what I mean I'm like oh man they they're
4:25:06doing a Dahmer here
4:25:08their time frame it was all wrong
4:25:10because they couldn't figure it out
4:25:12where was Gannon he truly was gone he
4:25:15was with Edgar oh my word
4:25:21he should be here for manslaughter
4:25:24because it was on January 28th that's
4:25:28why the police didn't have anything
4:25:30Albert came in on the 28th from the
4:25:32airport and was like in a moment of rage
4:25:35I mean I could be on the low end and I
4:25:38could say you know he should be in here
4:25:40for murder well she said she could be on
4:25:41the low end yeah like how low can you go
4:25:44yeah Gypsy you know what I mean yada
4:25:47yada yada yesterday someone commented on
4:25:50my short it was so funny they were like
4:25:52uh fresh tomatoes olive oil basil yada
4:25:55yada yada yes all of that
4:25:59can you believe because Albert you see
4:26:00he wanted to divorce her at this point
4:26:02he did divorce her in September
4:26:04so that's when it went through so this
4:26:07was the point where she's like okay I'm
4:26:08turning on him too now he's the one okay
4:26:10so she said I mean I could be on the low
4:26:13end and I could say you know he should
4:26:15be here for murder but I'm not I'm
4:26:18saying that it should be I guess
4:26:20manslaughter would be the right thing
4:26:22Stout added that she wouldn't reveal the
4:26:24true identity of Edgar which could
4:26:27possibly be a pseudonym because he has
4:26:30dangerous affiliations
4:26:33crime online could not independently
4:26:35verify the validity of Stout's claims
4:26:36during worry crime online nobody can
4:26:40literally nobody can she's a
4:26:44shame I'm sorry to the person who
4:26:45interviewed her they're probably like
4:26:46wait what Sergeant Minette with the El
4:26:48Paso County Sheriff's Office said
4:26:49there's an active gag order in the case
4:26:51and could not confirm if Leticia staff
4:26:53made a report with law enforcement
4:26:54Albert Stark has not been named as a
4:26:57suspect or a person of interest in the
4:26:58case last month he broke down during a
4:27:01memorial for his son held in Florida
4:27:03I just wish my angel wasn't in heaven
4:27:07Albert Stark said only after the
4:27:09memories came spilling in from his
4:27:11classmates and friends that I really
4:27:13understand the impact my son had
4:27:16oh man
4:27:19okay we've got uh 10 minutes or so until
4:27:21I'm saying 10 minutes it's actually 13
4:27:23but you know how they just pop up early
4:27:25sometimes they'll be like what
4:27:27okay
4:27:29meanwhile El Paso County officials
4:27:30announced earlier this year that they
4:27:32have numerous pages of discovery that
4:27:33point to Leticia Stark as being the
4:27:35primary suspect in the boy's murder in
4:27:37ganon's Murder for the first degree
4:27:39murder charges prosecutors alleged stuck
4:27:41and lawfully feloniously and knowingly
4:27:43caused the death of Afghanistan a child
4:27:45who had not yet attained 12 years of age
4:27:47and the defendant was in a position of
4:27:48trust with respect to the victim during
4:27:51a court hearing on March 11th El Paso
4:27:53County prosecutor Michael Allen
4:27:55we see him now in the Live Trial Right
4:27:57Said the authorities have at least 107
4:27:59search warrants against according to the
4:28:02arrest affidavit Leticia stock brutally
4:28:04attacked and killed her stepson inside
4:28:05his bedroom on January 27 2020.
4:28:09despite a neighbor who said his home
4:28:11security video showed Leticia leaving
4:28:12with Gannon on the morning of January
4:28:1427th and later returning home alone
4:28:16although they say he got out on the
4:28:17other side investigators believe that
4:28:19Gannon likely did return home with
4:28:21Leticia that afternoon and died inside
4:28:23the residence
4:28:25so the rest we know right
4:28:28evidence from inside ganon's bedroom
4:28:31includes blood sped on the walls blood
4:28:34that soaked through the carpet 50
4:28:35droplets of Blood on the wall blood on
4:28:38wall sockets and blood on the boy's
4:28:40mattress which we've seen a lot of in
4:28:41this trial as well evidence photos
4:28:43everything terrible police also said
4:28:46they found traces of Blood on the bumper
4:28:48of Leticia staff's car the blood was
4:28:50determined to be ganons and that's what
4:28:52she explains away as a foot injury
4:28:54the teacher stock attributes the blood
4:28:57to several accidents that happen inside
4:28:59of the family garage while Albert style
4:29:01and Gannon did woodworking she added
4:29:03that Gannon cut his foot in the garage
4:29:05and sat on her bumper while she helped
4:29:07him patch up the wound and we've gone
4:29:09through this probable cause affidavit
4:29:10very many times now on this channel it's
4:29:13on the playlist it's on the members only
4:29:14playlist as well because we've done even
4:29:16longer ones there so go check it out if
4:29:18you haven't yet
4:29:19Leticia maintained that not only did she
4:29:22not harm Gannon but her story to law
4:29:23enforcement were convoluted and
4:29:25inconsistent because she lost track of
4:29:27what her husband wanted her to say
4:29:30like this was in September 2020 now we
4:29:33can hear all the calls and see all the
4:29:34interrogations and everything oh my gosh
4:29:36I totally had lost track of what he
4:29:38Albert Stark was telling me to say and I
4:29:41it wasn't even mentally okay and he just
4:29:44kept saying I got the Tricare I got 16
4:29:48years in the military
4:29:50don't worry about it you know and I
4:29:53always lived all the time forgiving him
4:29:55like come on I forgive them for multiple
4:29:58what okay well I forgive them for
4:30:00multiple Affairs how much emotional
4:30:01abuse I was under with that situation
4:30:03you know
4:30:06since January Leticia style has made
4:30:09wide-ranging and varied explanations to
4:30:12both the media and the police on how
4:30:14Gannon disappeared according to the
4:30:15affidavit Leticia star also told
4:30:17differing stories to her husband about
4:30:19the boy's disappearance and claims of
4:30:21essay so there they talk about iguardo
4:30:23Quincy Brown
4:30:26that's the two they mentioned there and
4:30:28he has also Edgar then we know about
4:30:30Uncle Matt
4:30:31cash buddy lady Angel wow that's a lot
4:30:35that's a lot
4:30:36yes and welcome to membership
4:30:40okay what I'm going to do now because
4:30:41we've got 10 minutes left is set up the
4:30:45court stream
4:30:46so just give me a second everyone I want
4:30:49to make sure that we get it nice and
4:30:52ready oh wait
4:30:54sorry
4:30:57um
4:30:58yeah we want to go over here
4:31:05so I will in the description box link
4:31:08the channel that we were streaming the
4:31:10replay from and where we stopped was at
4:31:131 hour 22 okay just so you know just so
4:31:16you know I'll put it in Brackets there
4:31:17and explain everything as well so okay
4:31:20I'm gonna
4:31:21bring that knot to the other side
4:31:24we've got our map time as well which
4:31:26we've done lots of map time on this case
4:31:27too
4:31:30and I hope this doesn't double play I
4:31:32just could you want to play something
4:31:34um so we can get ready again
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4:33:03foreign
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4:33:47advised if you haven't yet hit the
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4:34:13okay and we are back welcome back we are
4:34:16going to be joining the afternoon
4:34:18session it's starting in six minutes
4:34:20I've got it here for us I must remember
4:34:23to unmute it I'm trying to avoid the
4:34:25robot microphone
4:34:27um so
4:34:28day 13 Leticia stock trial
4:34:31we've seen a lot in the last three weeks
4:34:34this is week four now starting I'm
4:34:36streaming the whole trial so if you're
4:34:37watching here with us even if you can
4:34:39just pop in and out or have a song in
4:34:41the background that's great thank you so
4:34:42much for being here make sure you
4:34:43subscribe hit the Bell so you don't miss
4:34:45out on any other cases I cover any other
4:34:47live stream shorts Community posts
4:34:50videos that I make for you um when I can
4:34:52I make summaries for you as well from
4:34:54everything we learned in this trial
4:34:57okay so we're waiting for judgment to
4:35:00come back
4:35:01prosecution depends
4:35:03Leticia
4:35:05okay so Jesse asks a lot of people asked
4:35:09us did but Leticia did admit she's
4:35:11responsible for gannon's death but did
4:35:13she ever admit what she did to him and
4:35:15especially why she did this
4:35:18um no and she admitted it through her
4:35:21attorneys from what I understand because
4:35:23from all the jail letters that we've
4:35:25seen
4:35:26I don't know if admitting is her thing
4:35:29so her defense
4:35:32who's representing her
4:35:34admitted she did it you know so not
4:35:37guilty by reason of insanity if you miss
4:35:39the morning stream just remember that in
4:35:42any of these replays I always time stamp
4:35:44and chapped out everything for you so
4:35:45it's really easy to navigate through who
4:35:48the Witnesses were and key moments
4:35:49throughout the trial day because for me
4:35:52if I see an eight-hour stream yeah no
4:35:54that's a hard note for me unless
4:35:57there's really good time stamps where
4:35:58you can navigate so that's what I
4:35:59provide to you um
4:36:01well for you so that you can do that so
4:36:04if you want to go back to uh from day
4:36:07three onwards if you want to go back to
4:36:09that or the opening statements day two
4:36:10is the only one I didn't stream
4:36:12um go check it out everything's there
4:36:14for you and check out my video section
4:36:15as well as well as the shorts and then
4:36:17uh there's lots of updates there okay so
4:36:20we've got four minutes
4:36:22four minutes to live afternoon session
4:36:28yes Jody says how Leticia how
4:36:32and her brother said why Leticia why
4:36:34that was very sad seeing her brother
4:36:36understand oh my word
4:36:38yes
4:36:41thank you
4:36:43thank you mermaid yeah and I've got this
4:36:44if you guys didn't know I bought this
4:36:46um blue crystal heart necklace in honor
4:36:50of Gannon and we're sharing blue hearts
4:36:53in the chat blue was his favorite color
4:36:54he loved Sonic the Hedgehog so we're
4:36:57sharing blue hearts and little hedgehogs
4:37:00and I've also made some emojis if you
4:37:02are a member there's some emojis as well
4:37:04for Ganon
4:37:07we do it to show the family support
4:37:10and Ganon
4:37:15okay I'm going to set this up
4:37:25that was just my thing this morning
4:37:29okay
4:37:32three minutes I'm just making sure that
4:37:34they're not showing the jury yes
4:37:38me
4:37:42okay
4:37:43so I'm still here I just wanna
4:37:46yeah make sure we're all good
4:37:54oh yeah sorry I was just saying this
4:37:56necklace I bought in honor of Ganon and
4:37:58a lot of people ask me where I got it
4:38:00but I'm in the Netherlands so it really
4:38:01doesn't really help to tell you because
4:38:02from like a Dutch online store but
4:38:04it's not complicated so I think you
4:38:06could say blue crystal necklace whether
4:38:09it's Swarovski or some kind of glass or
4:38:12Crystal or something it you can find it
4:38:13I'm sure you can if you want to
4:38:16yes thank you see little little blue
4:38:18hearts and hedgehogs for Gannon
4:38:21all right so court is starting in two
4:38:24minutes
4:38:27Frank is asking does anyone know why the
4:38:29children live with L and Ellis well if
4:38:32you listen to the lunch break I'm not
4:38:33sure if you were here in the lunch break
4:38:34we re-listened to his testimony there
4:38:36was a custody battle and they shared
4:38:37custody actually and so because you know
4:38:41L and the teacher were living in
4:38:43Colorado
4:38:45and gannon's Mom in
4:38:47South Carolina I believe
4:38:52the kids mostly stayed with uh Landon
4:38:55who's gannons and Lena's biological mom
4:38:59and Gannon and Lena were just staying
4:39:02with Elle for a while at the time
4:39:05thank you so much Vicky Kennedy really
4:39:07appreciate it
4:39:10oh wow that's amazing ldot says blue is
4:39:13gannon's birthstone to Sapphire okay
4:39:17wow
4:39:20one minute to go
4:39:22and we are ready
4:39:25thank you all for being here if you are
4:39:28late at all wait let me open the comment
4:39:30as well
4:39:31make sure you catch up I'll put that in
4:39:33the comments because sometimes people
4:39:34are join Leyton and they're like where
4:39:36are we and they're way behind on the
4:39:37Stream
4:39:40so let's do that for you
4:39:44okay so we're gonna
4:39:49I think they're sorting out those
4:39:51cameras because what they mustn't do is
4:39:52show the jury at all
4:39:58oh my word yes Ronald pace is my option
4:40:00I think the truth serum should be in
4:40:03these types of cases imagine that
4:40:05does it work every time though does it
4:40:06work every time
4:40:10Teresa says I took a break
4:40:12okay good job good job welcome back
4:40:22cyberspeed says I wonder if the judge is
4:40:24watching G
4:40:25Okay so
4:40:43I think they were staying there for a
4:40:45little while that's what I've understood
4:40:49okay let me just pin this quickly
4:40:55I think he was trying to get full
4:40:57custody yes
4:41:00okay oh they're late today late today
4:41:03not really it's now 1 30 that's when
4:41:06they said they'll start long lunch today
4:41:08two hours and 15 minutes
4:41:10but we used it very productively and we
4:41:12re-listened to day two L Stout's
4:41:15testimony a portion of it we couldn't
4:41:17listen to all of it
4:41:18he was on the stand for
4:41:20the whole of day two
4:41:22most of and then also in the morning of
4:41:24day three was when all those calls
4:41:26started and then they asked some
4:41:27questions in between about the calls now
4:41:28those calls we've gone over
4:41:30oh yes
4:41:34Kayla says where's her daughter now
4:41:39someone said in the chat the other day
4:41:41where Lena is now I'm not too sure I
4:41:43think she's with her mom
4:41:45yes I think she's with her mom actually
4:41:47her mom posted on Facebook the other day
4:41:49I'm not gonna show pictures of Lena it
4:41:52is on Facebook if you want to see but
4:41:54she's only 11 years old so
4:41:5620 cr1358 people versus Leticia stuff
4:42:00here we go everyone like the jury's not
4:42:01present in the courtroom is there
4:42:03anything we need to pick up outside the
4:42:04presence of the jury at this point in
4:42:05time prosecution oh yeah thanks offense
4:42:07nothing from the defense okay let's go
4:42:10ahead and bring the jury in
4:42:12just confirming you can hear the chord
4:42:14please just let me know I hope so
4:42:16otherwise I'll just reset it
4:42:25before I forget we had some time at the
4:42:28end of the day I want to talk about
4:42:29Wednesday in the event we have to flex
4:42:31start time
4:42:32yeah
4:42:34yeah I think tomorrow's fine I think
4:42:35Wednesday is the issue
4:43:18sorry I'm missing that comment there we
4:43:21go
4:43:22Holly I posted some pictures on patreon
4:43:24if you want to see that of Ganon and
4:43:26Lena together man they were so
4:43:29sweet brother and sister I mean she must
4:43:32be absolutely devastated
4:43:34she's 11 years old now
4:43:39which is how old Gannon was oh my word
4:43:41welcome to membership
4:43:44all rise for the jury please
4:43:57thank you
4:44:12got warm
4:44:16thinking may all be seated Court will
4:44:18recall 20 cr1358 people versus Leticia
4:44:22it should reflect a jury has returned to
4:44:24the courtroom prosecution call your next
4:44:26witness yeah are people called Sherry
4:44:28holes to the stand
4:44:30all right
4:44:31his holes if you would step forward and
4:44:33raise your right hand please ma'am
4:44:37do you swear from the testimony about
4:44:38giving this man will be the truth the
4:44:40whole truth is nothing but the truth go
4:44:42ahead and have a seat in the witness
4:44:43stand please watch your step if you step
4:44:44into the stand
4:45:01foreign
4:45:09good afternoon Miss holes how are you
4:45:10doing good afternoon could you please
4:45:12introduce yourself to the jury and spell
4:45:14your first and last name uh yes my name
4:45:16is Sherry holes it's
4:45:19s-h-e-r-r-i-e last of holes h-o-l-e-s
4:45:23and what is your occupation I'm
4:45:25currently employed as a forensic
4:45:26serologist and DNA Analyst at the
4:45:29Colorado Springs Metro crime lab and how
4:45:32long have you been employed such as I've
4:45:34been employed in that role approximately
4:45:37four and a half years at the cspd crime
4:45:40lab and what does a forensic serologist
4:45:43oh sure can you move that so that it's
4:45:46on its side so it doesn't block the the
4:45:48view of those two jurors right there
4:45:51um
4:45:52let me just put it right here or you can
4:45:54just lay it down on its side and one
4:45:56okay we'll just do that
4:45:58all right go ahead
4:46:03I think I was asking you uh what a
4:46:06forensic serologist does
4:46:08yes a forensic serologist examines
4:46:11evidence for the presence of biological
4:46:14fluids and specifically in our lab we
4:46:17look for blood semen saliva and also we
4:46:20examine for other potential biological
4:46:23evidence that may be suitable for DNA
4:46:25analysis
4:46:26and what kind of experience of training
4:46:28do you have in the field of forensic
4:46:30serology
4:46:32um well my training first of all I have
4:46:34a Bachelor of Science degree in
4:46:36biological sciences from University of
4:46:38California at Davis I also have a
4:46:40master's of Public Health with a
4:46:42specialty in forensic science from the
4:46:44University of California Berkeley
4:46:46prior to my employment in Colorado I was
4:46:49employed in the same capacity for
4:46:51approximately 10 years as also a
4:46:53forensic DNA analyst and serologist in
4:46:57various crime labs in California
4:46:59most serology training actually does
4:47:02occur on the job there are a few formal
4:47:05classes that I did take
4:47:07such as microscopy of semen evidence and
4:47:13um
4:47:13mostly it was on the job training in
4:47:16fact when I came to Colorado Springs and
4:47:18was hired here I spent about a year just
4:47:20going through a training protocol before
4:47:22I was deemed competent and able to begin
4:47:24casework and are you peer reviewed when
4:47:27you do a serology examination yes so all
4:47:31the reports that I write with my results
4:47:33are always technically reviewed by a
4:47:36second qualified analyst within the lab
4:47:38to make sure that they agree with the
4:47:40conclusions that I'm offering in the
4:47:42report and then there's also another
4:47:45level of Review called administrative
4:47:47review before the report goes out by
4:47:48another second qualified or analyst
4:47:51serology and DNA analyst
4:47:53and approximately how many forensic
4:47:55serology examinations have you conducted
4:47:57in your career
4:47:59oh in my career it's well over a
4:48:01thousand you don't keep track each time
4:48:03you do one and say
4:48:05um I usually average about 100 cases for
4:48:09serology a year so over the course of
4:48:12almost 15 years
4:48:15um yeah it's well over a thousand that
4:48:17was a bad attempt sorry uh
4:48:21have you testified as an expert in the
4:48:24field of forensic astrology in the past
4:48:26yes I have approximately how many times
4:48:28I've been qualified as an expert in this
4:48:30area approximately 40 times previously
4:48:33and are those both here and in
4:48:35California that's correct
4:48:37at this time we'd ask that the court
4:48:38qualify Miss holes as an expert in the
4:48:41field of forensic serology and allow her
4:48:44to render opinions in that field defense
4:48:47no objection to her being followed by
4:48:53witness will be so qualified go ahead
4:48:56so I want to kind of focus on
4:48:59your role as a forensic serologist here
4:49:01in Colorado Springs the Metro crime lab
4:49:03were you asked to conduct several
4:49:06forensic serology is it serological
4:49:09example neurological correct yes and in
4:49:11this particular case of The
4:49:13Disappearance of Gannon Stout yes I was
4:49:15could you give the jury a rundown on how
4:49:19you come about or how you became
4:49:21involved in this investigation
4:49:24um
4:49:25so when we get a request from an agency
4:49:28in this case the El Paso County
4:49:30Sheriff's Office typically there's a
4:49:32couple of things that happen one is they
4:49:34will write a cover letter with um a
4:49:36description of the pertinent case
4:49:37details and some of the items of
4:49:39evidence that they would like examine
4:49:42and then also typically there's a
4:49:44meeting between the submitting agency
4:49:47and our crime lab supervisor our DNA um
4:49:50technical supervisor and they make um
4:49:54decisions as to these are the items that
4:49:57we will accept and which um what are the
4:50:00priorities on which items will be tested
4:50:03and so is that common in any criminal
4:50:06investigation that the investigating
4:50:08agency will submit a letter asking you
4:50:10to perform analysis on certain items of
4:50:14others
4:50:15um I yeah I can't speak to how other
4:50:17Laboratories and agencies do it but that
4:50:19is what we request just so that we have
4:50:22some background knowledge of it helps us
4:50:25decide of the case so that helps us
4:50:27decide which evidence are best going to
4:50:30answer the questions being posed in the
4:50:32case and what is most probative in other
4:50:35words offering proof in the case
4:50:37circumstances and is it often in large
4:50:40investigations that you may actually
4:50:42meet with the detectives or other
4:50:45investigative officers to talk about
4:50:47what should be tested and why and that
4:50:49kind of thing
4:50:51uh yes definitely they try to do
4:50:54meetings before the first request comes
4:50:55in but often in a large investigation
4:50:58there can be several meetings that occur
4:50:59over time as more investigative details
4:51:01come to light or more questions are
4:51:04being answered in the case and that is
4:51:06what happened in this particular case
4:51:07can you describe that for the jury why
4:51:09did that happen in this particular case
4:51:12um I was not involved in the actual
4:51:13meetings that were occurring and that
4:51:15was our crime lab manager and the DNA
4:51:19supervisor um but from my understanding
4:51:22as more information was coming to light
4:51:24in the course of the investigation more
4:51:27questions were being asked more evidence
4:51:30was being collected on multiple
4:51:31different occasions which then um was
4:51:35coming into the lab with a request for
4:51:36examination
4:51:38and when you conduct your examinations
4:51:39how do you get your results back to the
4:51:42investigating agencies
4:51:44so once we have and when I have issued a
4:51:47report and it's gone through the two
4:51:48layers of review it is then released to
4:51:52the investigating detective the lead
4:51:54detective on the case from one of our
4:51:57administrative staff
4:51:59and did you do several reports with
4:52:01regards to this investigation yes in
4:52:03this particular investigation I released
4:52:05seven reports and do you know why there
4:52:08were seven different reports on I'm
4:52:10assuming seven different dates
4:52:12again I think additional items were
4:52:15being collected additional questions
4:52:17were being asked as additional evidence
4:52:21was being collected and during the
4:52:22course of the investigation so they
4:52:24didn't have all of the evidence or even
4:52:26all of the information from that very
4:52:28first request so again as they were
4:52:32having more meetings with our lab
4:52:34management it was decisions are being
4:52:36made that
4:52:37um you know we need additional items
4:52:38tested
4:52:40and so what would be your role just so
4:52:43you can explain to the jury in the
4:52:45process of doing your analysis with
4:52:48regards to evidence in this particular
4:52:49case
4:52:51my role was to examine the items of
4:52:55evidence for the presence of
4:52:58um most um mostly for the presence of
4:53:01blood
4:53:02and then also for other potential
4:53:04biological material that may be there
4:53:06and
4:53:08consolidate any swabs or cuttings that I
4:53:11take as well as documentation of the
4:53:13evidence documentation is done through a
4:53:15photography and from note-taking of my
4:53:17observations of the evidence and then
4:53:20any samples that I deem would be
4:53:23suitable to go on for DNA analysis I'm
4:53:25then consolidating into what we call a
4:53:27DNA packet DNA packet is just an
4:53:30envelope that has numerous tubes that
4:53:33I've prepared
4:53:34the tubes have little pieces of cuttings
4:53:36or little swabs from the various items
4:53:38of evidence then that will go forward to
4:53:41the next step which is the DNA analysis
4:53:44and with regards to this particular
4:53:45investigation you indicated earlier that
4:53:48you may have been looking for blood or
4:53:50the presumptive uh presence of blood in
4:53:53these types of items how would that
4:53:56impact your DNA packet or whether or not
4:53:58you create a DNA packet with regards to
4:54:01what the results of your blood test was
4:54:03so um when I am looking for blood that's
4:54:07always starts with a visual exam
4:54:09if I see staining that is consistent
4:54:12with visually looks like blood we then
4:54:14do a chemical color test it's a
4:54:16presumptive test for blood meaning it's
4:54:18not a confirmatory test for blood but it
4:54:21does indicate the presence of that
4:54:23if it I have a stain area that is looks
4:54:27like blood reacts to that chemical
4:54:28presumptive test I typically will take a
4:54:31small cutting or a swabbing of that
4:54:34stain trying to preserve additional
4:54:36stain not take the whole sample when I
4:54:38can
4:54:39and then that would go into a test tube
4:54:41that test tube then goes into the DNA
4:54:42packet
4:54:44I also do what we call Trace swabbing
4:54:47and Trace swabbing is
4:54:49areas
4:54:51um that may contain DNA cells or cells
4:54:55that have DNA so many of our tests are
4:54:57so sensitive now in DNA analysis that we
4:55:00don't actually need to have a stain
4:55:02present we can also get a DNA profile
4:55:06from just a very small number of just
4:55:08cells cells can be deposited just
4:55:10through touch or from wearing clothing
4:55:12that kind of thing
4:55:13so some of my um serology examination is
4:55:17also doing Trace swabbing so areas in
4:55:19which I don't actually see a stain but
4:55:21may be interested in DNA results from
4:55:24some maybe through someone having
4:55:26touched an item for say okay and we'll
4:55:29get to those as we go through the
4:55:30individual items
4:55:32did you have several individual physical
4:55:35pieces of evidence that you examined and
4:55:38performed a serological examination on
4:55:41those items yes I did and would you also
4:55:43receive swabs from various areas of a
4:55:46residence 6627 Mandan Drive here in
4:55:49Colorado Springs yes I did and would you
4:55:51when you received all these items were
4:55:53they all sealed in uh protective way so
4:55:56you know no one touched them in between
4:55:58the last person who opened the item yes
4:56:01and rather than go through that with
4:56:03each item or go to every item you looked
4:56:05at was sealed when you got it
4:56:08um yeah if anything is not in a seal
4:56:10condition I note it but um I do not
4:56:12remember receiving any items in an
4:56:15unsealed manner no
4:56:16and when you create a DNA packet do you
4:56:19also seal that item and preserve it in a
4:56:22way so that the DNA will not be impacted
4:56:24yes I do my envelope that I create that
4:56:27has all the little tubes from the
4:56:28cuttings and swabs that gets an Evidence
4:56:31tape seal
4:56:32um once it's ready to go
4:56:34um forward
4:56:36um and it's stored Frozen for further
4:56:38analysis and is that why we don't admit
4:56:41them here in court because they need to
4:56:43stay in the freezer that kind of thing
4:56:44to preserve that DNA yeah they are best
4:56:47maintained in a frozen Manner and um
4:56:49literally it's just an envelope with the
4:56:51tubes inside so um it's best just not to
4:56:54bring it to court at all
4:56:56so to your right are a series of
4:56:59exhibits
4:57:00um and I'd like to go through these one
4:57:03by one as painfully as that sounds but I
4:57:05think we can go through it fairly
4:57:06quickly the first exhibit that you'll
4:57:09see in that box on that table is exhibit
4:57:11182 could you pull that out and tell us
4:57:14what that is
4:57:20yes
4:57:22this is labeled as the toothbrush
4:57:25belonging to Ganon and stuff
4:57:28and you need to open that to say that
4:57:30that's the toothbrush in there I can see
4:57:32it from the bottom it's been partially
4:57:34opened okay and when you receive that
4:57:37was it sealed of course yes it was what
4:57:40did you do with that particular
4:57:42toothbrush
4:57:43um this toothbrush was submitted as a
4:57:47possible secondary reference standard
4:57:49when we
4:57:50need to
4:57:53um make DNA comparisons we need a
4:57:55reference standard or a known sample
4:57:56from an individual and this was
4:57:58submitted as a possible secondary
4:58:00reference scanning was not present at
4:58:02the time so they have a toothbrush which
4:58:04hopefully would have his DNA on it so I
4:58:07did some swabbing of the toothbrush I
4:58:10also took
4:58:11some cuttings of the toothbrush bristles
4:58:13as well
4:58:14and was that done on February 8th of
4:58:162020
4:58:18the report was issued on February 8th um
4:58:21that worked yes
4:58:23it says that your the request date was
4:58:25February 5th 2020 so did you do the
4:58:27actual testing sometime in between those
4:58:30two dates yeah
4:58:32yeah so gannon's body had not been
4:58:33discovered yet correct so
4:58:37you created a DNA packet for this item
4:58:41not just for this item but yes this
4:58:44would be one of the items those little
4:58:46cuttings of the toothbrush bristles and
4:58:48the swabs those would go into test tubes
4:58:50and be included in the DNA impact it
4:58:52with other samples that I collected
4:58:54now it
4:58:56earlier you testify that you're also a
4:58:59forensic DNA analyst is there a reason
4:59:01why you didn't do DNA on this particular
4:59:03item versus creating a packet and
4:59:05sending it on yeah at this point in time
4:59:07I was not a qualified DNA Analyst at the
4:59:10lab here in Colorado Springs so my only
4:59:12role was to do astrology examinations so
4:59:15now you can do both right
4:59:17um I'm I'm to a certain point in My DNA
4:59:20analysis training that I am qualified to
4:59:22up to a certain step but um there's
4:59:24always more training to be done
4:59:26this item and other items go on to Donna
4:59:29Minogue for further DNA testing yes
4:59:35and I don't know if we want to just
4:59:36stick that back into box just that so it
4:59:39doesn't get flooded up there
4:59:42well that works too okay
4:59:45the next item in there is people's
4:59:47exhibit 184.
4:59:49you could pull that out and tell us what
4:59:50that is
4:59:52um yes DNA standards for ganon's
4:59:55biological father
4:59:58and you need to open that to see what's
5:00:00in there
5:00:02um it's partially open there's
5:00:04um I can take a look at this
5:00:10okay there's just some swabs um that are
5:00:13in here are those Buckle swabs from Mr
5:00:16Eugene stouk also Al Stout yes Buckle
5:00:19swabs are swabs that are taken from the
5:00:21inside of the cheeks and the gum area
5:00:24and those are taken as a reference
5:00:25standard or a known DNA standard that
5:00:28will be later on used for comparison
5:00:30purposes and I guess while we're doing
5:00:31that let's pull out 185 as well uh what
5:00:34is people's exhibit 185
5:00:37um DNA standards for ganon's biological
5:00:39mother Landon
5:00:43um okay
5:00:48yes this also contains two sets of swabs
5:00:52and so those Buckle swabs as well from
5:00:54ganon's mother yes these are Buckle
5:00:56swabs also collected as reference
5:00:58standards from gannon's mother now we're
5:01:01doing this together but I'm assuming
5:01:02when you conduct the test you're doing
5:01:04things individually right you're not
5:01:06mixing and matching items of evidence so
5:01:09we have a yes that's correct we have a
5:01:11very set process on how we examine items
5:01:15of evidence in the lab we um always
5:01:17before we even start any examination we
5:01:20do a thorough cleaning of our workspace
5:01:21using bleach we know that DNA because
5:01:24it's so sensitive our testing procedures
5:01:26are so sensitive they are prone to
5:01:27contamination so we have to be very
5:01:29careful make sure we don't leave our own
5:01:32DNA on any evidence so that involves
5:01:34wearing protective face coverings and
5:01:37hand coverings and gloves hair coverings
5:01:40as well and then we also want to make
5:01:43sure that there's no contaminating DNA
5:01:45on our work surfaces so those are always
5:01:47bleached down in between every single
5:01:49item of evidence we always lay out a
5:01:51fresh piece of like white butcher paper
5:01:53so the evidence actually doesn't even
5:01:55touch any of our work surfaces any of
5:01:57our implements are cleaned as well and
5:01:59then we always look at um the order in
5:02:03which we look at items of evidence is
5:02:04also important we try to look at
5:02:06evidence items that may have potentially
5:02:08low amounts of DNA before we would look
5:02:11at evidence items that have high amounts
5:02:13of DNA something that would be very
5:02:15bloody would have an expected high
5:02:16amount of DNA we wouldn't want that to
5:02:18contaminate our work surfaces at all so
5:02:20the order in which we examine is
5:02:21important and then lastly we always look
5:02:24at reference samples last after looking
5:02:26at all the other evidence items
5:02:29and with regards to people's exhibit 184
5:02:31and 185 what did you do exactly to
5:02:34create a DNA packet for those two buccal
5:02:37swabs so the Buckle swabs individually
5:02:40of course one by one examining those I
5:02:42my role was just to take a portion of
5:02:45one of the buccal swabs I essentially
5:02:47just it's like a long Q-tip like a Q-tip
5:02:50head with a long stick that's what the
5:02:52swab is and I just take a sterile
5:02:55scalpel and I just portion off one part
5:02:58of the swab that goes into a sterile
5:03:00tube which is then labeled with the
5:03:02associated barcode number that we've
5:03:04given it and that tube is that I've
5:03:07created it goes into the DNA packet
5:03:12but I'm referencing uh your February 8th
5:03:152020 report if you if you need to
5:03:18refresh your recollection but do you
5:03:19recall looking at a piece of tan carpet
5:03:22that was rolled up inside of another
5:03:25piece of carpet that was found in uh the
5:03:29storage room at 6627 Mandan Drive
5:03:33uh yes
5:03:35what were you looking at in regards to
5:03:38that carpet
5:03:42um so my I was looking for the possible
5:03:44presence of blood did you see with your
5:03:47eye the presence of possible blood I did
5:03:50and what did you do upon seeing that
5:03:52so once I visually see staining that
5:03:55looks like it may be blood I then do the
5:03:56chemical color presumptive tests which
5:03:59was positive for the presence of blood
5:04:00on the carpet and then I do
5:04:04um actually on the back of that rolled
5:04:07up piece of carpet I then swabbed a
5:04:10portion of that potential blood staining
5:04:12so that portion of that swap can go in
5:04:14the test tube and then into the DNA
5:04:15packet for further analysis
5:04:18and do you have people's exhibit 386
5:04:21there next enlist yes what is people's
5:04:24exhibit 386 uh let's see
5:04:29this is three sets of possible blood
5:04:33swaps and what are those uh blood swabs
5:04:36from does it indicate yes I'm using
5:04:39these were identified using placards a b
5:04:41and c collected from the stairs and the
5:04:43floor of the garage
5:04:46and so
5:04:48I I what are these are these Q-tips or
5:04:51you might be into
5:04:53General here um it's very much like a
5:04:55Q-tip there are swabs come in sterile
5:04:58packaging so typically there's
5:05:01um a sterile wrapper and within their
5:05:04two swabs that they are when our crimes
5:05:08investigators are collecting these they
5:05:09would open up the sterile packaging take
5:05:11out these two swabs which look like a
5:05:13Q-tip but they have long wooden sticks
5:05:15and then once they're finished by
5:05:18swabbing at these particular areas they
5:05:21go back into the individual swab
5:05:23wrappers and that's how I receive them
5:05:26this one has three sets meaning there'd
5:05:28be um three separate collections then
5:05:30contained within this outer envelope
5:05:33are the three sets labeled in a
5:05:36particular way
5:05:37uh I might need to refer to my notes
5:05:48see now page two four of your report
5:05:53is that on my report or my nose
5:05:57um it's in your report okay I'm just
5:05:59gonna look at my notes
5:06:05um let's see
5:06:13okay so they actually
5:06:16um inside the outer envelope inside
5:06:18there was three smaller Cape sealed
5:06:20manila envelopes
5:06:22um and each of those were labeled with
5:06:27either an A or a b or a c to indicate
5:06:29the placards that they had used um
5:06:31during the while they were collecting
5:06:33the evidence and does it say where these
5:06:35placards were located within the
5:06:37residence
5:06:40uh
5:06:42was it in the garage I'll just yeah so
5:06:45the outer the outermost barcode label
5:06:48which they put on here says from the
5:06:50stairs and the floor of the garage
5:06:52so with regards to these placards
5:06:55um if the jury wanted to they can look
5:06:57at photographs and go to the garage and
5:07:00look for placards a b and c and that
5:07:02would reference the swabs that we're
5:07:04talking about yes correct
5:07:06so what did you find with regards to
5:07:09placards a b and c or at least the swabs
5:07:12from those areas in the garage
5:07:15um so each of those swabs did show kind
5:07:19of a reddish discoloration each set a b
5:07:22and c and I did my Chemical presumptive
5:07:25Testing for each set of placards ABC and
5:07:29all were presumptive positive for blood
5:07:32and did those get forwarded on for DNA
5:07:34analysis yes portions of those swabs
5:07:37were then cut and placed into test tubes
5:07:39forwarded for DNA analysis okay
5:07:42I believe the next one the honest I made
5:07:44had permission to put into it
5:07:48um
5:07:49I'd have to narrow it down a little bit
5:07:50more than that I mean that's okay when
5:07:52people's 451 is what I'm looking for
5:07:54okay
5:08:18thank you
5:08:22let me show you people this admitted
5:08:25evidence 451
5:08:27we recognize this item
5:08:30I do okay do you need to look at that
5:08:33further
5:08:41okay I do yes okay
5:08:45obviously 451 is a piece of carpet right
5:08:48um yes that was a carpet correct Carpet
5:08:50One Is How They designated that one
5:08:53so now I'm up here
5:08:56what did you find if you lived in at 451
5:09:00and that piece of carpet there was
5:09:03staining observed on both sides of the
5:09:06carpet that was presented positive for
5:09:09blood
5:09:10and did you forward that on for DNA
5:09:12analysis I did yes or not the whole
5:09:14carpet I did take samples from the
5:09:15carpet
5:09:17yeah people's exhibit 503
5:09:20um in your report it's labeled as
5:09:266839sw2-01 period zero one another piece
5:09:30of carpet
5:09:32do you recall seeing that so um let's
5:09:35see Carpet One is that item number that
5:09:38you just described um there was a second
5:09:41carpet carpet two that was 6839
5:09:45sw2-04.01
5:09:49is that is a different exhibit that
5:09:50you're referencing yeah I think 451 was
5:09:53a different one so let me show you that
5:09:54again so you can look at the
5:09:57lab number okay
5:10:03so far
5:10:06okay so that's the dash 01 that's for
5:10:08Carpet One okay right okay it's an
5:10:11excellent carpet too then the next one
5:10:13should be carpet two
5:10:15same thing carpet two what did you find
5:10:17on carpet two which is people's exhibit
5:10:20503 yes
5:10:23um carpet two also had visible staining
5:10:28um and also reacted positive to the
5:10:31presumptive test for blood
5:10:39and did you also look at the phone
5:10:40padding associated with uh people's
5:10:44exhibit 503.
5:10:46yes I did and what did you find in the
5:10:48foam padding of people's exhibit 503
5:10:51um also foam padding had visible
5:10:52staining and was positive for the
5:10:54presumptive presence of blood
5:10:57the next exhibit in the Box to your
5:10:59right should be people's exhibit 512.
5:11:01can you pull that out
5:11:02yes what do you see in people's exhibit
5:11:04512
5:11:07this one is labeled as the electrical
5:11:09outlet cover with possible blood
5:11:13and it says collected from Southeast
5:11:16corner of Southeast Rome child room of
5:11:19basement
5:11:21and what did you find after uh did you
5:11:24conduct a presumptive test for blood on
5:11:26that item I did I noted some visible
5:11:28staining on the electric outlet cover I
5:11:31did the presumptive test for blood which
5:11:33was positive and did you perform a DNA
5:11:35kit for that either I'm glad I did do
5:11:38some swabbing of the stained area that
5:11:41could then go on for DNA analysis yes
5:11:43and so is it do you do that for instance
5:11:46if it's a physical piece of item that
5:11:49may have blood on it would you actually
5:11:50swab the blood versus a CSI at the scene
5:11:53swabbing like the garage floor that we
5:11:55already talked about yeah typically we
5:11:58when we train csis or Law Enforcement
5:12:01Officers we always suggest that if they
5:12:03can collect the item and bring it into
5:12:06the lab so the serologists can examine
5:12:08it that's the best practice if it's an
5:12:10item that is just not movable such as a
5:12:13garage floor or just too unwieldy to
5:12:15collect then they do do some sampling as
5:12:18well but we always prefer on um anything
5:12:21that can be packaged and bought into the
5:12:22lab we always would prefer to examine it
5:12:24ourselves and do um all of the
5:12:26documentation and collection in the lab
5:12:29is the swabbing the same process though
5:12:31same
5:12:32keep referring to it as a Q-tip is there
5:12:35something else I should refer to yes
5:12:36swab or Q-tip um it's the same you know
5:12:39we always have these um so we use the
5:12:41sterile package swabs that um we open up
5:12:44and then I label the swab wrapper as to
5:12:47what I'm going to be um what the barcode
5:12:49number is associated with it and I swab
5:12:51it I let it dry once it's dry I can then
5:12:54take a portion of the swab put it into a
5:12:57sterile test tube for DNA analysis
5:13:00we can put that back and then the next
5:13:02item should be exhibit 516.
5:13:06like that yes and what is people's
5:13:09exhibit 516. this is labeled as possible
5:13:12blood swabs collected from electrical
5:13:15socket in southeast corner of Southeast
5:13:18from Child room a basement
5:13:19and you know if that socket is related
5:13:22to people's exhibit 512 the item we just
5:13:24looked at yes I believe that they did
5:13:26actually I'm not sure who actually
5:13:28collected this one but um that it was
5:13:30swabbed prior to being collected and
5:13:32submitted to the lab and what did you do
5:13:34with that particular exhibit
5:13:35and this particular exhibit I just noted
5:13:39um some coloration on the swab and then
5:13:42uh let's see
5:13:45tested it with the presumptive test for
5:13:47blood which was positive I then took a
5:13:49portion of the swab cut portion of the
5:13:52swab put it into the test tube for DNA
5:13:54analysis
5:13:58the next time I want to talk to you
5:13:59about is in your report it's it's
5:14:01people's exhibit 504 but in your report
5:14:04you label as carpet two does that
5:14:07refresh your recollection a little bit
5:14:09about the the three different carpets
5:14:10you looked at
5:14:12okay yes um
5:14:14so there was a carpet one there was a
5:14:16carpet two and then there was an
5:14:18unlabeled um carpet rug so right okay
5:14:21yes so what did you find with regards to
5:14:24people's exhibit 504 what you have
5:14:27labeled as carpet to in your report
5:14:29um again visible staining was present on
5:14:31the carpet the chemical presumptive test
5:14:34for blood was positive
5:14:36and did you forward that on for DNA
5:14:38analysis yes samples were taken from on
5:14:40carpet two from the back side of the
5:14:42carpet um swabs were taken cuttings were
5:14:46taken and even some of the stain fibers
5:14:48were taken all to be forwarded for DNA
5:14:50analysis
5:14:54did you do the same for the padding that
5:14:57was related to carpet two uh people's
5:14:59exhibit 504.
5:15:01um same process did a visual exam noted
5:15:04staining which was presumptive positive
5:15:06for blood and again took a small cutting
5:15:08of of the stained area that could be
5:15:10forwarded for DNA analysis
5:15:12and with regards to Carpet One and
5:15:14carpet two do you know where this carpet
5:15:17came from with regards to 6627 Mandan
5:15:20Drive
5:15:21um they were labeled as coming from the
5:15:24southeast room also known as the child's
5:15:27room in the basement
5:15:29that Ben gannon's room or did you know
5:15:30that's my understanding that they were
5:15:32from gannon's room was it your
5:15:34understanding that there was a large
5:15:35area of blood in the corner of his room
5:15:38underneath his bed yes
5:15:43I now want to turn to your February 28
5:15:462020 report
5:15:48and I believe the next item in the Box
5:15:52will be people's exhibit 371 is that
5:15:55right
5:15:58that's 378.
5:16:01do you see 371 up there
5:16:05oh I apologize 371.
5:16:08uh is defendant Buckle swaps you recall
5:16:11getting defendants
5:16:15uh let's see were they part of the kit
5:16:21they're currently admitted into evidence
5:16:23but they're in a freezer somewhere so um
5:16:26I did actually get Buckle swaps they
5:16:28were part of an Evidence collection kit
5:16:29taken from um Leticia Stout which had um
5:16:32fingernail scrapings and a buckle swab
5:16:34so um I did portion out
5:16:37um some of the Buckle saw from Leticia
5:16:39Stout for DNA analysis okay and that
5:16:41went on to Donna Minogue's analysis
5:16:44correct yes so now let's go to the the
5:16:46shoes that you have there uh people's
5:16:48exhibit 378. are those the shoes you
5:16:52looked at
5:16:53yes they are is that people's exhibit
5:16:55378. correct yes uh now earlier you
5:16:59testified about
5:17:01um
5:17:02swabbing for DNA for the presence of
5:17:05things or other than blood would you do
5:17:07that with this particular item yes I did
5:17:10um again we call that trace DNA swabbing
5:17:14it's in areas that we don't um see
5:17:16staining but we may be interested in any
5:17:18say skin cells that may be left by in
5:17:22these case shoes maybe someone who wore
5:17:24the shoes we could potentially still get
5:17:25DNA
5:17:26um from swabbing in this case the inside
5:17:29soles of the shoes
5:17:31so can you demonstrate I know the shoes
5:17:34are in plastic you can kind of
5:17:37demonstrate for the jewelry where you
5:17:39swap your tip of shoes in the hopes of
5:17:42finding DNA for the owner of those shoes
5:17:45sure so for um
5:17:47the owner I would expect that their DNA
5:17:50would be on the inside the inside sole
5:17:53so I actually for each shoe individually
5:17:56these are separate swabbings I took the
5:17:58swabs together and I swabbed the insole
5:18:00like reaching into the shoe and then
5:18:03also the back heel area and that was
5:18:05done separately for the right and left
5:18:06shoes
5:18:07and did that get forwarded on for DNA
5:18:09analysis yes it did did you also swab
5:18:12any potential Blood on the outside of
5:18:13those shoots
5:18:14uh yes on the right shoe
5:18:20um
5:18:21I did swab it could react the right shoe
5:18:24did react to the chemical presumptive
5:18:25test for blood on the outsole so on the
5:18:28bottom of the shoe so I actually just
5:18:30swabbed the entire
5:18:32outsole including all of it it'll
5:18:35recessed areas of the shoe as well
5:18:38now when you got these shoes were you
5:18:41able to visibly see blood on them or
5:18:44what appeared to be blood
5:18:45oh I did note that the
5:18:49acceleration
5:18:51I I didn't sometimes things can look
5:18:55like blood and they don't react in other
5:18:56times you know they can the blood
5:18:58potentially can take different
5:18:59colorations
5:19:00um both shoes had that coloration
5:19:02although the left shoe did not react to
5:19:05the presumptive presence of blood so
5:19:08um unclear if the coloration is due to
5:19:11potential blood staining but the right
5:19:13shoe did react to the presumptive test
5:19:15for blood
5:19:16and what happens to blood if you put uh
5:19:19shoes in a washing machine and run the
5:19:22wash
5:19:23so
5:19:24um what happens to blood so blood
5:19:26obviously is going to for the most part
5:19:29you wash off but within blood there are
5:19:32cells and cells can sometimes survive
5:19:36washing we do know through actual
5:19:38studies that have been published that
5:19:40some DNA can survive washing of course
5:19:43some would be lost to the wash process
5:19:46but depending on various factors such as
5:19:49what type of substrate or Surface the
5:19:50DNA was deposited on what type of wash
5:19:53cycle what type of detergents or even if
5:19:55bleaches were used those are all going
5:19:57to impact whether or not we would get
5:19:59recoverable amounts of DNA from
5:20:01something that has gone through the wash
5:20:03when you receive these shoes did you
5:20:06notice anything that was consistent with
5:20:08them being run through a washing machine
5:20:09I actually did note for these shoes that
5:20:12they had a strong what I call clean odor
5:20:16and yet you still saw some discoloration
5:20:19that appeared to be blood view on these
5:20:21shoes I did note discoloration on the
5:20:24soles of the shoe the outsoles and
5:20:27that's where I focus my attention as far
5:20:30as presumptive testing for blood and was
5:20:34able to find positive results on the
5:20:35outsole of the right shoe
5:20:37did you also receive a swab with regards
5:20:40to this case which is people's exhibit
5:20:42246 should be in that box there
5:20:55if it's not in that box I can just ask
5:20:57you about it
5:21:00okay
5:21:01what is people's exhibit 246
5:21:03um this is
5:21:06um
5:21:07labeled as package of two swabs for a
5:21:10woman's black and white Nike shoe and
5:21:13then there's some indications on the
5:21:15bottom handwritten swabs from Nike shoes
5:21:16laundry room right shoe
5:21:19and so are those consistent with
5:21:22people's exhibit uh 378 the Nike shoes
5:21:25that you just talked about yeah yeah
5:21:27they actually were swabbed prior to
5:21:29being submitted into the lab
5:21:31um the outsole was swabbed did you
5:21:34submit that on to DNA analysis
5:21:38um I did this I believe I actually
5:21:39tested it for the presumptive presence
5:21:41of blood I did and that was positive so
5:21:46um yes and then a portion was submitted
5:21:48on for DNA analysis
5:21:51you need help getting rid of somebody
5:21:56next want to go to people's exhibit um
5:22:02well before we leave 378 did you talk
5:22:04about all the areas you swabbed both
5:22:07outside and inside of the shoe
5:22:11um let me just refer to my report
5:22:15okay so the right shoe
5:22:19um I did swab the entire outsole of the
5:22:23right shoe that had reacted positive for
5:22:25the presumptive presence of blood even
5:22:27in all of those little recessed areas as
5:22:29well I did swab the right shoe lace as
5:22:32well and then I took the tree swabs that
5:22:35we talked about for where DNA on the
5:22:38inside Sole and the inside back heel
5:22:40area the left shoe
5:22:44I did not get any presumptive positives
5:22:46they were all negatives so I only did
5:22:49those Trace swabs on the insole of the
5:22:50left shoe and were those individually
5:22:53packaged for DNA analysis so when Donna
5:22:56Minogue did her DNA analysis she knew
5:22:59exactly what she was doing based on your
5:23:01label yes I always label the swab
5:23:03wrappers with what I'm collecting and
5:23:05then also the test tubes get the same
5:23:07itemization as well and does it apply to
5:23:10everything where you create a DNA packet
5:23:11do you label it so Donna Minogue who
5:23:14does the DNA analysis can then say this
5:23:16is the item that cherry holes looked at
5:23:18yes that's their standard practice
5:23:20within the lab
5:23:25and next I want to turn to people's
5:23:26exhibit 459 do you have that there
5:23:31I do what is people's exhibit 459
5:23:35this is labeled as swabs of blue star
5:23:37presumptive positive reactions in garage
5:23:39and laundry room of 6627 Mandan Drive
5:23:44so what is the blue star I know the
5:23:45Jewish
5:23:46has heard a lot about blue star but what
5:23:48does blue star mean to you and how do
5:23:50you treat that differently for instance
5:23:52the swab it says Blood on the garage
5:23:55floors baby sure so um blue star is
5:23:59another chemical presumptive test it
5:24:01works in very much the same way as the
5:24:03chemical test I'm using the lab I use a
5:24:05different one but it has the same
5:24:06process blue star is used by our csis at
5:24:10crime scenes and it's typically used in
5:24:14areas in which they suspect there might
5:24:16be blood or they're looking to see if
5:24:17there's blood but it's really not
5:24:19visible to them
5:24:20and they can spray this reagent onto an
5:24:23area it will react it's very very
5:24:26sensitive it will react even if an area
5:24:27has been cleaned potentially so
5:24:30um it's a chemiluminescent usually
5:24:33that's something that they do in a
5:24:35darkened room and it's much like luminol
5:24:37it glows and they can take photographs
5:24:39of areas that are reacting when they
5:24:42find a blue star positive area then they
5:24:44swab it for us and they submit it into
5:24:47the lab
5:24:48but because it's already gone through a
5:24:51chemical presumptive test they don't
5:24:53need to now repeat another chemical
5:24:55presumptive test it's already reacted
5:24:56positive to the blue star it's the same
5:24:58process that my test would do so um when
5:25:01I get something labeled as blue star
5:25:03positive my role is typically just to
5:25:07um like in this case these are swabs
5:25:09just go ahead and collect a portion of
5:25:10the swab into a test tube and forward it
5:25:12on for DNA analysis and is that what you
5:25:14did with 459 yes and did you do that
5:25:18with everything that was labeled blue
5:25:19star at least swabbing of the blue star
5:25:22um when things were swabbed yes there
5:25:23were a few items larger items that said
5:25:25blue star positive that I did still like
5:25:27carpeting I did still do a visual exam
5:25:30but swabs I just took a portion I didn't
5:25:32do further Chemical presumptive Testing
5:25:37so with regards to people's exhibit 518
5:25:40which should be the next exhibit
5:25:45did you do the same things with that
5:25:47particular item
5:25:49yes this is labeled swabs a blue star
5:25:52positive reactions from the staircase
5:25:54between the main level and basement of
5:25:566627 Mandan Drive again my role was just
5:26:00to
5:26:01take a sample using a scalpel take off a
5:26:04small portion of the swabs put them into
5:26:05the test tubes
5:26:07is it 5 18 you're looking at yes okay
5:26:10and so
5:26:12let me if I can approach Hunter you may
5:26:40let's now jump to your March 17th 2020
5:26:43report
5:26:45and I'm gonna hand you what's been
5:26:47admitted into evidence as people's
5:26:49exhibit 423
5:26:54yes if you've sold it for if you like
5:26:57okay yes you recognize that
5:27:01um I do recognize the label on it um I
5:27:05did not package it in this packaging but
5:27:07yes I recognize this is a plastic tub
5:27:09and lid with possible blood
5:27:12did you examine this item I did do you
5:27:15need to open it to look at it no I don't
5:27:17do you need me to open it no all right
5:27:20what did you do with people's ended at
5:27:22423
5:27:24this item was examined for the possible
5:27:27presence of blood so I did do some
5:27:29visual examinations that's how we always
5:27:30start all of our serology and I did note
5:27:34that there was some red brown staining
5:27:37on one short end of this plastic tub on
5:27:40the tub and on the lid I then did my
5:27:43chemical presumptive test for blood
5:27:45which were positive I then took a number
5:27:47of different collections
5:27:49um swabs of these different blood stains
5:27:52or potential suspected blood stains and
5:27:55those were then forwarded for the DNA
5:27:57analysis you just generally describe
5:27:59where you swab this item and how you
5:28:01labeled it for DNA analysis sure I
5:28:04collected
5:28:06um one collection was swabs of a
5:28:07suspected blood stain on the outside lip
5:28:10of the lid short end of the tub with the
5:28:12label
5:28:13meaning there was actually a sticker
5:28:14label on the tub so I was
5:28:16differentiating that side from the other
5:28:18side which was did not have a sticker
5:28:19label a second collection was swabs of
5:28:22suspected bloodstain on outside corner
5:28:24of lid short end of tub with label
5:28:27the third collection was swabs of sacred
5:28:30blood stain on outside lip Edge and side
5:28:33of container short end of tub with label
5:28:36and the fourth collection was swabs of
5:28:38suspected blood stain on the inside
5:28:40corner of the lid short end of the top
5:28:43of label
5:28:44and again Donna Minogue would be able to
5:28:46know exactly what she's testing based on
5:28:48your labels correct yes
5:28:55you can go to your May 27th 2020 report
5:28:58now
5:29:00and I'll have you look at people's
5:29:02exhibit 278 which should be in that box
5:29:05next to you there
5:29:07you have that I do what is people's
5:29:09exhibit 278
5:29:11this is labeled as one package of two
5:29:14swabs from the bed located on East wall
5:29:18scanning's room
5:29:20did you test that item for blood
5:29:22I did yes and what was your results
5:29:24presumptive positive for blood and did
5:29:27you forward that on to DNA for DNA
5:29:29analysis yes I did
5:29:31uh did you also uh
5:29:35conduct analysis on other swabs within
5:29:37that people's exhibit 278. uh this is
5:29:42um this is one package of swabs there
5:29:45was a separate item submitted called
5:29:47additional package of swabs from bed
5:29:50um I don't believe it's contained within
5:29:52this exhibit but there was a separate
5:29:53item
5:29:54which we have a separate barcode for
5:29:56also from the bed
5:29:58um also positive for blood or
5:29:59presumptive positive for blood and did
5:30:01all did that also go on to DNA analysis
5:30:03yes it did how about people's exhibit
5:30:06191
5:30:14hmm
5:30:15what is that by the way
5:30:18this is labeled as a Brillo scrub brush
5:30:23and what did you do with that Brillo
5:30:25scrub brush
5:30:27um I examined it visually for the
5:30:29possible presence of blood I did note
5:30:31some staining on the brush and I was
5:30:34then able to do um the positive get the
5:30:38positive presumptive pests for blood and
5:30:40then do some collections of the staining
5:30:42I could go for DNA analysis
5:30:44I'm assuming you forwarded that on to
5:30:46DNA analysis I did yes
5:30:49where did you see
5:30:50um where did it test positive for blood
5:30:53on that particular item do you have that
5:30:54in your notes we do this particular item
5:30:56tested positive
5:30:58um on the this kind of oh you actually
5:31:01can see it it's kind of a flat
5:31:05um type scrub brush with a handle it
5:31:07tested positive on the flat surface on
5:31:09that back side of the brush
5:31:11hey did you see any indication that this
5:31:13item may have been washed
5:31:16may have been washed let me check my
5:31:19notes
5:31:24you can actually look at the exhibit can
5:31:27you see where that exhibit was recovered
5:31:28from
5:31:30it actually does not note let me see
5:31:34secret notes on the
5:31:36this one actually is just called Brillo
5:31:39scrub brush that's all that it's denoted
5:31:41that's fun
5:31:42how about people's exhibit uh 192s you
5:31:45have that
5:31:52I do guess what is people exhibit 192.
5:31:55this one is called a blue and white
5:31:57scrub brush
5:32:01um
5:32:01okay tell us what you did with that so
5:32:04also um visually examined and did note
5:32:07staining on this scrub brush which was
5:32:10positive for the presumptive presence of
5:32:12blood I then was able to collect
5:32:14um stains from
5:32:18um
5:32:19three separate collections I collected
5:32:21from the base of the scrub brush head
5:32:23between and on the bristles suspected
5:32:25blood stains were also collected from
5:32:27the back of the scrub brush head and
5:32:29suspected bloodstain was collected on
5:32:31the actual scrub brush bristles
5:32:32themselves and did that get forward on
5:32:35to DNA for DNA analysis it did yes
5:32:38how about people's exhibit 193.
5:32:47people's exhibit 193 is labeled as scrub
5:32:50brush with possible hair and carpet
5:32:52fiber
5:32:54what did you do with that particular
5:32:55exhibit um same process I did a visual
5:32:57exam did note some suspected blood
5:33:00staining and which reacted to the
5:33:03chemical presumptive chest for blood I
5:33:06then collected possible blood stains on
5:33:08the back of the um flat scrub brush
5:33:13went on to DNA for DNA analysis yes it
5:33:15did
5:33:18next item is people's exhibit 417 do you
5:33:21have that up there I do what is people's
5:33:24exhibit 417. this is described as three
5:33:27sets of possible blood swabs tested
5:33:29presumptive positive blue star collected
5:33:32from basement living room carpet pillow
5:33:35on North couch and area rug
5:33:38and did you forward those three swabs on
5:33:40for DNA analysis yes these are three
5:33:43separate swabs from some blue star areas
5:33:46these also were sampled placed in the
5:33:48test tubes forwarded on for DNA analysis
5:33:52people's exhibit 519
5:33:59okay this item is labeled swabs of blue
5:34:02star presented positive reactions from
5:34:04basement
5:34:05let's see base of stairs and Southeast
5:34:09child's room
5:34:12how many swabs till we're in that
5:34:14particular exhibit
5:34:16uh let's see
5:34:29this particular exhibit has let's see
5:34:36um six different collections in it I'm
5:34:39assuming those are packaged in six
5:34:40different tubes
5:34:43um so of these let's see
5:34:46um are they packaging separate tubes
5:34:48when I do my packaging or how I receive
5:34:50them when you receive them so when I
5:34:53receive them
5:34:56they typically are in let me just check
5:34:59my notes
5:35:01they actually were in six separate Cape
5:35:03sealed manila envelopes and each of the
5:35:06envelopes then had a description of
5:35:08where it had been collected from
5:35:10and since these are blue star swabs as
5:35:12you just prepare these for DNA analysis
5:35:14yeah my preparation is just to sample or
5:35:17cut a portion of a swab to forward it on
5:35:19to DNA analysis
5:35:23we can go to your June 17th report now
5:35:25and have you look at people's exhibit
5:35:27361.
5:35:33okay well I've got that here if I can
5:35:35approach him
5:35:36go ahead
5:35:45well suitcase has been entered in
5:35:48evidence and speaking with it
5:35:511861
5:35:54do you recognize this item I do
5:35:58you need to put some gloves on which I
5:36:00probably should put something I have
5:36:01Clips yeah because I'd like to
5:36:04um have you demonstrate where you
5:36:06swapped this particular item okay sure
5:36:13can witness come out here and I'll hold
5:36:14it that's fine she does that
5:36:24so um did you swab this item for blood
5:36:27it did on the inside of this
5:36:30the openness
5:36:32um suitcase and show the jury where you
5:36:34swabbed it
5:36:38[Music]
5:36:47I noted um staining in this area this
5:36:50reddish brownsteining which did react to
5:36:52the presumptive test for blood and this
5:36:54was the area that was swabbed
5:36:57you'll see staining there
5:36:58is that your circle that's on this
5:37:01suitcase yeah I circled the stain area
5:37:03that's um just for when I take
5:37:05photographs I've also noted lmg positive
5:37:07LNG is just shorthand to Rebecca
5:37:10malachite green that's
5:37:17it okay that's too fast it's the
5:37:19chemical presumptive test that I'm using
5:37:21in the lab this lmg positive means it
5:37:24has reacted and then I take photographs
5:37:27of this scene from various um angles and
5:37:30with a scale and I always like to have
5:37:32that notification in my photographs
5:37:34are there other areas within this
5:37:36suitcase that you uh noted in swab there
5:37:40are other area that I know
5:37:46I know redlining actually there's two
5:37:48that I have noted staining but I've
5:37:51circled and said lmd Negative I mean I
5:37:53did do the chemical presumptive Cuts but
5:37:54it did not react so I don't swab stains
5:37:57that don't react um
5:38:15did you forward these swabs from the
5:38:17suitcase on for DNA analysis yes I did
5:38:23you also look at a blanket uh p uh
5:38:27people's exhibit 365.
5:38:31I did yes
5:38:42365.
5:38:50I think you can just use this in the
5:38:52plastic in the line yeah yes
5:38:56okay
5:38:57I'm gonna hold it if you wouldn't mind
5:39:01and you see the areas where you swag
5:39:03this blue blanket
5:39:15you're on the other side
5:39:18without the right side of the dark side
5:39:20or something
5:39:25thank you
5:39:26all right I'll hold it while you point
5:39:27things out for the jury
5:39:31[Music]
5:39:36some reddish brown steaming with my
5:39:38circled multiple different stains that
5:39:40did react to that presumptive test for
5:39:42blood so I actually took you can kind of
5:39:45see these tiny little squares that's
5:39:46where I took cuttings from this because
5:39:49it's together I was able to combine
5:39:51those
5:39:51um into one touch tube and um so that's
5:39:55that's the only area sampled on the
5:39:56board
5:39:58your debt test positive for blood okay
5:40:02do you know whether or not this blanket
5:40:04was inside this suitcase when it was
5:40:06recovered
5:40:09yes I I did put that in my report blue
5:40:12blanket recovered from within suitcase
5:40:17and no swabs again were forwarded on for
5:40:19DNA analysis um yeah those were cuttings
5:40:21put into a test tube that was forwarded
5:40:23for DNA analysis
5:40:25now we don't have an exhibit
5:40:28that's titled gannon's fingernails but
5:40:31did you have an opportunity to
5:40:34examine the fingernails from autopsy
5:40:37from Gannon Stout
5:40:38I did yes
5:40:40what did you do with those particular
5:40:42fingernails
5:40:44I'm just going to refer to my report and
5:40:46notes
5:40:48okay
5:40:55so of the right hand I received two
5:40:59entire fingernails
5:41:01from the left hand I also received two
5:41:04entire fingernails
5:41:06um separately I examined them and I did
5:41:09swab
5:41:10the undersides of the distal ends
5:41:13meaning the ends um for this from like I
5:41:16guess the knuckle I did swab separately
5:41:19the right undersides and the left
5:41:21undersides of those fingernails and for
5:41:24each case for both the right hand and
5:41:26left hand for swabs from underneath the
5:41:28fingernails were positive for the
5:41:30presumptive presence of blood
5:41:31and did you forward those on to DNA for
5:41:34DNA analysis yes I did and why did you
5:41:37do that why did I forward or why did I
5:41:39say why were the fingernails that we
5:41:41knew came from Gannon forwarded on for
5:41:43being announces you know
5:41:45um to look for the presence of possible
5:41:47foreign DNA which may be on the
5:41:49fingernails
5:41:51foreign
5:42:00dated
5:42:01um
5:42:06March 17th
5:42:08and do you have people's exhibit 194 up
5:42:10there
5:42:17yes what is people's exhibit 194. this
5:42:20is an empty plastic Heinz vinegar bottle
5:42:24and did you receive that bottle into
5:42:26your lab for analysis I did and what did
5:42:29you do with regards to that bottle um
5:42:30again I was looking at this bottle for
5:42:32the possible presence of blood I did
5:42:34note some faint light staining around
5:42:37the handle area of the bottle which did
5:42:40test presumptive positive for blood and
5:42:42that area was swabbed and then forwarded
5:42:45for DNA analysis
5:42:52you have people's exhibit 435 up there
5:43:02what is people's exhibit 435
5:43:04this is people's exhibit 679.
5:43:07okay that's the next one I don't have
5:43:10any more exhibits in here
5:43:15well let me just do it this way do you
5:43:17recall uh examining an Amazon box that
5:43:21had potential blood on it I do and was
5:43:23this Amazon box recovered from the
5:43:25storage room at 6627 Mandan Drive yes
5:43:28what did you see when you got the box in
5:43:31your lab
5:43:32um on one side of the box there was some
5:43:35potential bloodstaining that visually
5:43:37looked like it could be blood
5:43:39and
5:43:40um I did do the chemical presumptive
5:43:42tests which were positive for those
5:43:43stains on one side of the Box on the
5:43:46exterior side
5:43:48and did you forward those swabbings of
5:43:50those stains onto DNA for DNA analysis
5:43:53um yes I did swab the stains and those
5:43:55did go on for
5:43:56um DNA analysis you know they labeled in
5:43:59such a way that Donna Minogue would know
5:44:01where they came from once she got them
5:44:03yes
5:44:05with regards to people's exhibit 679
5:44:07which I think you said you had up there
5:44:09okay what is that and what did you do
5:44:12with it
5:44:14this is labeled as white bed sheet with
5:44:16blue shark print and hair and fabric
5:44:19received from laundry basket in closet
5:44:21of Southeast basement bedroom
5:44:25um this particular sheet I did look
5:44:29um do my visual exam I did note
5:44:32um one stain that did react to the
5:44:36presumptive test for blood and I took a
5:44:39cutting of that suspected blood stain on
5:44:41the bed sheet
5:44:47the honor uh for the record there is a
5:44:49stipulation to the admission admission
5:44:52of people's exhibit 339 which is that
5:44:54chart that I had up by the jury uh
5:44:58earlier uh defense do you agree
5:45:05exhibit 339 is admitted press the
5:45:08publish you may go ahead
5:45:14missiles I'm going to show you exhibit
5:45:15339 first of all here uh did you help me
5:45:19prepare this particular exhibit I did
5:45:21and did Miss Minogue also contribute
5:45:24very Mis exhibit yes she did
5:45:27the jury know what this exhibit is
5:45:29yes this is just a summary table of the
5:45:33different um people's exhibit numbers
5:45:35with a description of the item and we've
5:45:38gone through all of those today and then
5:45:40for my purposes it does have a column
5:45:43that lists what the serology results
5:45:46were as far as whether it was
5:45:48presumptive positive
5:45:51but for instance where it says blue star
5:45:53in your column would that be something
5:45:56you didn't test for blood because the
5:45:57blue star already illuminated there
5:45:59correct
5:46:02and so did you contribute to uh the item
5:46:07and the serology aspect of this
5:46:09particular
5:46:10in preparing yes I confirmed with all of
5:46:13my reports that that is accurate correct
5:46:18and we'll be using this exhibit again
5:46:19with this
5:46:26I don't have any further questions
5:46:28cross-examination Mr cook I don't have
5:46:30anything thank you do any of the jurors
5:46:33have any questions for Ms holes
5:46:37all right thank you ma'am you may step
5:46:38down thank you
5:46:41prosecution fire next witness please
5:46:44we call Donna Minogue
5:46:48can I just clean up there yeah I didn't
5:46:51know how much of that you were still
5:46:52going to use did you want help no no
5:46:55okay thank you thanks
5:47:06thank you
5:47:10here's Minogue if he would step forward
5:47:12and raise your right hand please ma'am
5:47:20do you swear affirm the testimony about
5:47:21to give him this man will be the truth
5:47:22the whole truth and nothing but the
5:47:24truth yes go ahead and have a seat in
5:47:25the witness stand please watch your step
5:47:27as you step in and stand
5:47:36good afternoon good afternoon afternoon
5:47:38are you doing all right could you please
5:47:40state your name so you'll ask for the
5:47:42record and introduce yourself to the
5:47:43jury my name is Donna Minogue and my
5:47:46last name is spelled
5:47:48m-a-n-o-g-u-e I'm currently a DNA
5:47:50analyst and serologist with the Colorado
5:47:53Springs Police Department Metro crime
5:47:55lab how long you been a DNA analysis
5:47:58um analysis is that how you say that
5:48:01analysis yes our analyst actually
5:48:04analyst that all alone
5:48:09um I've been a DNA analyst since about
5:48:111999 prior to working here at the csbd
5:48:14crime lab I retired from the Albuquerque
5:48:17Police Department crime lab doing the
5:48:19same type of job
5:48:21and uh how long have you been uh in that
5:48:26particular field prior to that I've been
5:48:28in the field of forensics for a little
5:48:29over 35 years but in terms of serology
5:48:32and DNA I would say since 1986. what
5:48:36kind of training and experience do you
5:48:37have in that field of forensic DNA
5:48:39analysis
5:48:41um the training experience that I have
5:48:42again is about 24 years about actually
5:48:46about close to 30 years in serology and
5:48:49DNA analysis both with the Metro crime
5:48:51lab here and with the Albuquerque Police
5:48:53Department
5:48:54prior to this I have
5:48:57uh
5:49:00experience training I have on the job
5:49:02training by a qualified analyst in both
5:49:06locations because each location requires
5:49:09you to train in their particular
5:49:10procedures it took about two years to
5:49:13train at Albuquerque the police
5:49:14department because that's where I
5:49:15started and it was probably about four
5:49:17to six months to train and come up to
5:49:19speed on their procedures here and do
5:49:22you have continuous training going on
5:49:23now
5:49:24um every year I do we are required by
5:49:27our accreditation board and our quality
5:49:30assurance standards to have at least
5:49:31eight hours of training in development
5:49:34developments in DNA and I generally
5:49:36accrue about 40 to 60 hours a year
5:49:40and tell dreary a little bit about your
5:49:42educational background I have a
5:49:44bachelor's degree in biomedical Sciences
5:49:45I earned in 1981 and then I have a
5:49:48master's degree in the same field I
5:49:49earned in 1983. I also have continuing
5:49:52education beyond that academic education
5:49:56um in terms of extra additional class
5:49:58work that I took to help bolster my job
5:50:01qualifications in my prior years of
5:50:04employment and in my employment here
5:50:07and have you testified as an expert in
5:50:09the field of forensic DNA analysis in
5:50:11the past yes I have approximately how
5:50:13many times I'm going to say
5:50:15approximately 30 times here in El Paso
5:50:17County I've testified probably over a
5:50:20hundred in Bernalillo County that's New
5:50:22Mexico the county I worked in and I've
5:50:25testified once actually just once in
5:50:28federal court in California
5:50:30at this time we asked that the court
5:50:32allow Miss Minogue to be qualified as an
5:50:34expert in the field of forensic DNA
5:50:36analysis and render opinions in that
5:50:39field defense no objection your honor
5:50:42the witness will be so qualified go
5:50:44ahead
5:50:45the jury's heard a little bit about
5:50:47forensic DNA analysis but it was from an
5:50:50expert from Florida okay can we get in
5:50:52the Colorado version of what forensic
5:50:54DNA analysis
5:50:56um should be pretty similar when you do
5:50:58forensic DNA analysis you're looking for
5:51:01a transfer of body fluids from either an
5:51:05item to a scene a scene to an item
5:51:07person to person so we're looking for a
5:51:09transfer of DNA that is contained in the
5:51:12cells in the body
5:51:14you say cells from our body what kind of
5:51:16fluids do we get our DNA from
5:51:19um you can obtain DNA profiles from
5:51:21almost any body fluid saliva and blood
5:51:24and semen are the most common but you
5:51:26can also obtain DNA profiles from things
5:51:28like sweat and urine blood yes did I not
5:51:31say blood I don't know
5:51:34blood semen and saliva I thought that
5:51:36was my first
5:51:39it's been a long day for me I apologize
5:51:42yeah well my fault no question about
5:51:45that
5:51:46um
5:51:48don't talk about this case the people of
5:51:51State Colorado versus location Style
5:51:54involved in this investigation I was yes
5:51:57in terms of doing the uh the DNA
5:52:00laboratory work
5:52:01I want to talk about known profiles
5:52:04first what's a known profile a known
5:52:06profile is when you obtain a sample it
5:52:10can be either a blood sample or it can
5:52:12be a saliva sample from an individual so
5:52:15you're collecting it directly from them
5:52:16so you know what their DNA profile is
5:52:19when you analyze it and obtain the
5:52:21profile can you just let the jury know
5:52:23what a DNA profile is a DNA profile is a
5:52:26graphic representation of your genetic
5:52:30information at the locations that we
5:52:33examine in our Laboratory
5:52:35and so how do we obtain these known
5:52:37profiles in a forensic setting in a
5:52:39criminal case in a criminal
5:52:40investigation
5:52:42um they're obtained
5:52:44essentially an investigator will provide
5:52:47known samples and they will be submitted
5:52:50to evidence and then if it's on a
5:52:52request that I receive I will Analyze
5:52:54That
5:52:55have you received things such as buckle
5:52:59swabs yes I have and is that a common
5:53:01way to develop a known profile for an
5:53:04individual who's alive for instance that
5:53:06is a very common uh type of sample yes
5:53:09and did you receive buccal swabs in this
5:53:10case I did yes we're going to talk about
5:53:12those later on but I I really want to
5:53:14talk about at least start out talking
5:53:16about
5:53:17how you were able to develop a profile
5:53:19for Dan and stout
5:53:21especially before his body was
5:53:24discovered if you tell the jury about
5:53:26that
5:53:27um yes because we had uh no no body to
5:53:31Source a profile from I was provided
5:53:35with items that were common thought to
5:53:37have been used by him and one of the
5:53:39items that we obtained a profile from
5:53:42was from his toothbrush and that was a
5:53:46male profile was developed from that
5:53:49and did you do anything to corroborate
5:53:51whether or not that profile actually
5:53:53belonged again in stock yes we did we
5:53:56did a um obtained standards from uh the
5:54:00biological mother and the biological
5:54:01father and then we did a parentage
5:54:03statistic
5:54:05um between the two parents and the
5:54:07profile we found from the toothbrush to
5:54:09determine if it was likely that those
5:54:11were the parents or this was the
5:54:13biological child of those two
5:54:14individuals and were you able to
5:54:16determine that yes and what was your
5:54:18termination the termination was that um
5:54:21the
5:54:23that the profile from the toothbrush
5:54:26could not be excluded as having
5:54:28originated from the biological mother
5:54:30standard in the biological father
5:54:32standard that I found and the
5:54:34probability of finding another
5:54:36individual with that profile if you will
5:54:38is
5:54:39nine the probability of including him as
5:54:43a biological offspring of those two is
5:54:4699 point
5:54:48nine nine nine nine ten nines after the
5:54:51point percent
5:54:52what does that mean
5:54:54um it's a high likelihood that um this
5:54:56these are the biological parents of the
5:54:58profile from the toothbrush
5:55:00did once again in Stock's body was
5:55:03discovered uh March 17 2020s
5:55:06were you able to cooperate that finding
5:55:09through other materials
5:55:11um I was through uh bone samples what
5:55:13bone samples did you get and what you do
5:55:16I was provided with uh bone samples that
5:55:19were
5:55:20transferred or transported to the El
5:55:23Paso County coroner's office and they
5:55:25prepared some bone sample and bone
5:55:27marrow sample for me because I don't
5:55:30have the means to break down a bone so
5:55:33they provided me samples and I took a
5:55:35portion of those samples and the profile
5:55:37from the bone sample matched the profile
5:55:40from the toothbrush
5:55:41and was that bone sample from a femur
5:55:43bone that uh was created or at least the
5:55:47DNA sample was created for you to
5:55:49examine from a Dr Leon Kelly correct
5:55:51he's a pathologist here in Colorado
5:55:53Springs yes
5:55:55did you also get information with
5:55:57regards to what a DNA forensic analyst
5:56:00was doing out in Florida with regards to
5:56:03a rib bone belonging to Gannon style my
5:56:07understanding is that they were
5:56:08attempting to obtain a profile and they
5:56:10were um uh putting it into uh like a
5:56:15database to determine or as under the
5:56:17category of unidentified human remains
5:56:20I don't know what the outcome of that
5:56:23entire thing was did they reach out to
5:56:25you to confirm whether or not they had a
5:56:28match with regards to this rib bone that
5:56:30they did DNA analysis on in Florida oh
5:56:33we did yes and was there a match with
5:56:35regards to what profile they obtained in
5:56:38Florida yes with the toothbrush sample
5:56:40okay and so the last item I want to talk
5:56:43to you about was Gannon Stout's
5:56:45fingernails were you able to do DNA
5:56:47analysis on these fingernails as well I
5:56:49did perform DNA on the fingernails and
5:56:51attempt to get a a DNA type that would
5:56:54verify that a known DNA sample from him
5:56:58I was not able to obtain full profiles
5:57:01on those samples
5:57:02were you obtained able to obtain enough
5:57:04to know whether or not there was a
5:57:06connection between his fingernails and
5:57:08the toothbrush for instance yes I was
5:57:10and what would tell the jury about that
5:57:11what did you find well I found a
5:57:13low-level DNA profile but there was
5:57:15enough information to calculate a
5:57:17statistic on to to match them to each
5:57:19other
5:57:22based on everything he just talked about
5:57:24is the profile that you obtained from
5:57:26the toothbrush in the beginning
5:57:28the DNA profile for Ganon stock yes
5:57:32and is that the profile you used in your
5:57:34analysis of a particular unknown items
5:57:37uh particularly from 6627 Mandan Drive
5:57:40and other areas uh with regards to the
5:57:43profile from getting stuff that is the
5:57:46profile that I used until I obtained the
5:57:48bone sample profile which was more the
5:57:51the toothbrush sample is what we
5:57:53consider a secondary standard not
5:57:55knowing
5:57:56um who the the individual is and the
5:57:59bone sample just verified that but yes I
5:58:01did use the toothbrush sample for
5:58:02comparison
5:58:04did you also obtain some buccal swabs
5:58:07from the defendant Leticia stalk here
5:58:09and obtain a DNA profile from those
5:58:12buccal swabs yes I did and did you also
5:58:14use that in your analysis when you're
5:58:16comparing knowns to unknowns correct
5:58:23at this time I'd like to publish the
5:58:25exhibit 339 on the TV screen just so
5:58:28everyone can see it as we're talking
5:58:29about prosecution over here
5:58:33we're going to put people's exhibit 339
5:58:36up which is a chart that's already in
5:58:38evidence uh you may recognize it from
5:58:41the TV screens did you help contribute
5:58:43to making this chart yes I did
5:58:46and is this a good summary of the items
5:58:48that you tested and the results that you
5:58:50have uh on those picker items it is yes
5:58:54I know we're giving away the answer
5:58:55early on this exhibit but I think it's
5:58:59helpful for the jury to kind of follow
5:59:00us as we talked about the particular
5:59:02things the first item up there is
5:59:05exhibit 386 which are swabs from the
5:59:09garage placards a b and c you recall
5:59:12that yes when you get those items what
5:59:15did you do and how did you do your DNA
5:59:17analysis on those particular items well
5:59:19the swabs were already prepared for me
5:59:21during the serology examination so what
5:59:24I end up with for the DNA examination is
5:59:27essentially an envelope of tubes
5:59:30um with a corresponding number to them
5:59:33and then I match them back up when I
5:59:34write the report so I just simply did
5:59:37DNA analysis on these swabs
5:59:39what did you find with regards to the
5:59:41swab from placard a
5:59:43um the swamp from placard a
5:59:45um the major profile matched again in
5:59:48Stoke with a estimated frequency of 1 in
5:59:523.4 octillion
5:59:54and when you say major profile why do
5:59:57you describe it as a major profile
5:59:59because in that particular sample I had
6:00:01a mixture of more than one individual
6:00:04and I was able to parse out a major
6:00:07contributor to that according to our
6:00:09standardized operating procedures I was
6:00:12able to pull out a major profile on that
6:00:14major profile matched again in Stoke
6:00:16and do you have any standards on how you
6:00:19determine whether or not a mixture can
6:00:22can determine a major profile how many
6:00:24contributors need to be in there for you
6:00:26to do that and now in order to pull out
6:00:28a major profile I have to follow our
6:00:30standard operating procedure which is
6:00:32written up it's called a mixture
6:00:34interpretation policy and essentially
6:00:36the major contributor has to be two and
6:00:40a half to three times higher than the
6:00:43other contributors in that mixture so by
6:00:45following my standard operating
6:00:47procedure I was able to pull out a major
6:00:49profile how many contributors were in
6:00:51this next year regardless I would have
6:00:54to check my report for that sure that
6:00:56would refresh your recollection yes
6:01:12I had a mixture of two contributors one
6:01:15of which was male that major profile the
6:01:18major male profile match scan in Stoke
6:01:20and
6:01:22we know this is at least presumptively
6:01:24blood is blood a very enriched uh item
6:01:28that has DNA in it it's a very rich
6:01:30source of DNA yes
6:01:32common for instance when you're swabbing
6:01:34a garage floor or for the instances
6:01:37Podium you might find several different
6:01:40profiles on that you could yes
6:01:43is the fact that it may be blood is that
6:01:46would that contribute to Gannon being
6:01:48the major profile and this two-person
6:01:50mixture
6:01:52um I can't say that the DNA I can only
6:01:55tell you that because it was
6:01:56presumptively positive for blood we know
6:01:58there's a good indication that there's
6:02:00blood in here but I can only tell you
6:02:02that the major profile is attributable
6:02:04to Gin and stoke
6:02:06what about placard B
6:02:09um placard B
6:02:11um that was also a mixture of two
6:02:13contributors one of which was male and
6:02:16the major male profile match scan and
6:02:18stelk and again uh estimated frequency
6:02:20of 1 in 3.4 octillion
6:02:23and so uh when the jury has this chart
6:02:27uh back in deliberations
6:02:31where it says major profile matches
6:02:34Ganon is that always going to be a
6:02:36mixture
6:02:37uh not necessarily a major yes when you
6:02:39get the when you hear the term major
6:02:41that means that the DNA profile was a
6:02:43mixture but that a major was able to be
6:02:45parsed out of that
6:02:47whereas the placard C where it says
6:02:50matches again
6:02:52um placard C was a single Source mail
6:02:54profile and that profile matched again
6:02:57and stout with an estimated frequency of
6:02:591 and 3.4 octillion
6:03:01and so when there's a single Source
6:03:03profile with people's exhibit 339
6:03:06indicate that item matches Ganon correct
6:03:10just so we're creative so mixtures
6:03:13you'll see the word major profile
6:03:16yes of course you'll just see match
6:03:18correct okay
6:03:24you've thrown out the
6:03:27um
6:03:28the probability you said one in 3.4
6:03:31octillion is that what you said correct
6:03:33and what does that mean what does that
6:03:35mean to this jury
6:03:37um an octillion is a three for instance
6:03:40we just rounded off to three octillion
6:03:42that's a three followed by 27 zeros
6:03:47and why do we do that
6:03:49um it's it's to give you an indication
6:03:51of the uniqueness of the profile how
6:03:54often each of the alleles occur in the
6:03:56general population
6:03:58and so is it also to confirm that that
6:04:01is in fact gannon's blood and placard C
6:04:04on the garage we don't provide Source
6:04:06attribution we don't say this profile
6:04:11originates from we provide you with the
6:04:14fact that it's a match and the statistic
6:04:16that gives you the an indication of the
6:04:18uniqueness of the profile
6:04:20lawyers ask you that don't you yes I
6:04:24want to ask you today
6:04:25okay let's go to people's exhibit 503
6:04:28which is labeled Carpet One from
6:04:30gannon's room what did you do with that
6:04:33and what did you find again this was in
6:04:35a tube already prepared for me and it
6:04:38was uh
6:04:39um extracted or examined it was analyzed
6:04:42for the DNA profile
6:04:44um and that's 506 you said or 503. it's
6:04:49people's exhibit 503 so would be uh in
6:04:53your report
6:04:55cutting from the top of the carpet yep
6:04:58right um yes that cutting from the top
6:05:00of the carpet was a single Source male
6:05:03profile that matched Gannon stouk with
6:05:05an estimated frequency of one in 3.4
6:05:08octillion and did you also do DNA
6:05:11analysis on the padding or at least a
6:05:13cutting from the padding with regards to
6:05:15that same carpet
6:05:17um The Cutting from the padding was the
6:05:19same result a single Source male profile
6:05:21that matched Ganon stalk with an
6:05:23estimated frequency of one in 3.4
6:05:25octillion
6:05:28we can go now to people's exhibit 503
6:05:31which is labeled there on 339 as face of
6:05:36outlet cover for ganon's room did you
6:05:38recall getting a cutting or a DNA kit
6:05:42with regards to that this was a swab and
6:05:45that's 512.
6:05:47people's exhibit 512. yes I thought you
6:05:49said 503.
6:05:51um these were swabs of a stain from the
6:05:53face of the outlet cover and the Inside
6:05:55Edge of the plug window and I analyzed
6:05:58one of the samples that was prepared in
6:06:00a tube for me
6:06:02um and that was a mixture of two
6:06:04contributors at least one of which is
6:06:06male the major male profile matched
6:06:08again in Stoke with an estimated
6:06:10frequency of one in 3.4 octillion so
6:06:13this is another two-person mixture how
6:06:16do you know at least one is male what do
6:06:18you do to determine um there are three
6:06:20areas on the DNA on our DNA graphic
6:06:23printout that tells us if there's a male
6:06:25present one is actually a location on
6:06:28the Y chromosome the other is the sex
6:06:31chromosomes the X and Y if I see a y I
6:06:34know there's a male and there's also
6:06:36another area on the Y chromosome that's
6:06:39um present if a male is present
6:06:42and the next item on 339 is people's
6:06:45exhibit 516 which is a swab of the
6:06:48electrical socket and ganon's room what
6:06:51did you find in regards to that um that
6:06:52was a single Source mail profile that
6:06:54matched Gannon Stoke with an estimated
6:06:56frequency of a 1 in 3.4 octillion
6:07:00and then people's exhibit 504 is carpet
6:07:04two from ganon's room what did you find
6:07:06with regards to that that was a single
6:07:08Source mail profile that matched Gannon
6:07:10stelk with an estimated frequency of 1
6:07:12in 3.4 octillion
6:07:14is that the is that as high as you can
6:07:16go as far as the frequency no you go
6:07:19higher than that yes it depends on what
6:07:22the alleles are because it's based on
6:07:24the frequency of occurrence of a
6:07:26particular allele
6:07:27that makes so much sense
6:07:29it's based on the the DNA profile if
6:07:34people have rare DNA profiles because
6:07:36sometimes we do like they'll have a rare
6:07:39a rare uh reading at a location so the
6:07:42frequency of occurrence of that is less
6:07:44which makes statistic higher okay
6:07:49the padding I'm assuming is the same for
6:07:52the carpet too yes the padding is the
6:07:53same a single Source male profile that
6:07:55match again and stalk with a frequency
6:07:57of 1 and 3.4 octillion
6:08:00now the X next item is people's exhibit
6:08:02332 by may approach
6:08:05go ahead with regards to people's
6:08:07exhibit 332
6:08:10if you actually do the serology on this
6:08:12side of the world I did the serology on
6:08:14this yes
6:08:18in this circuit
6:08:22show you the bag first okay
6:08:26um I recognize it because I recognize
6:08:28the barcode label that's on there and my
6:08:30initials and date when I resailed it is
6:08:32on there as well now let's play the
6:08:34board yes
6:08:35does it show here where you did your
6:08:37serological examination yes did I say
6:08:40that right serological I'm doing the
6:08:43best thank you all right if permission
6:08:46to publish the jury and if you wouldn't
6:08:48mind stepping out and just showing the
6:08:50jury where you took your swab or what
6:08:53you did with ours this for
6:08:55um the first thing I did is I know it is
6:08:57possible blood staining without red
6:09:00brown staining until we identified as
6:09:02presumptively positive for blood so I
6:09:04thought an area marked here that is dark
6:09:06red brown staining I've got also got a
6:09:09lot of little dots located that I did
6:09:11not test these dots because they're too
6:09:13small and I was afraid I was going to
6:09:14consume them thought is if we're going
6:09:16to process them for DNA we need to take
6:09:18them straight to DNA without any
6:09:20processing
6:09:21um so this one here he spot was positive
6:09:24for the presumptive presence of blood
6:09:26and then at a later time I swapped these
6:09:29two areas because they fluoresced with
6:09:31using an ultimate light source
6:09:33um so I took a swap from here swap from
6:09:36here swap from here and then I swabbed
6:09:38the edges of the board wondering if
6:09:39anybody had handled the board so I took
6:09:41four samples total while we're up here
6:09:44with a guards to 339 we see 332 on the
6:09:47board you said it's presupted positive
6:09:50for blood what swab are we talking about
6:09:52that actually matches Bannon that is
6:09:55this large stain here
6:09:56did you find anything with regards to
6:09:59your other swabs
6:10:00um I did I have a feeling I have to go
6:10:02review my report
6:10:05you do that
6:10:15um from the swabs from the edges of the
6:10:18board that I was looking for if somebody
6:10:20had handled it it was a mixture of it's
6:10:23a partial profile which means I don't
6:10:24have all the information on the DNA
6:10:26profile and it's a mixture of at least
6:10:28two contributors at least one of which
6:10:30was male and the profile was not
6:10:33suitable for comparison because it was
6:10:34too low level
6:10:36and why is it that you did this serology
6:10:38on this particular board and the DNA
6:10:40analysis it was the weekend and I was
6:10:42the only one available
6:10:44would you was there some urgency uh with
6:10:47this particular exhibit
6:10:49um yes okay and you did it quickly and
6:10:52to get it back to uh the Sheriff's
6:10:54Office yes
6:10:57the next item we see on 339 is people's
6:11:01exhibit 378 Nike shoes from washer do
6:11:05you see that yes now you didn't actually
6:11:07get the shoes but did you get swabs that
6:11:09were related to that I did I got
6:11:11swabs that uh Sherry holds the
6:11:13serologist collected she did the
6:11:15presumptive testing and collected and I
6:11:18did the DNA analysis let's talk about
6:11:20the swabs of the outsole of the right
6:11:23Nike shoe what did you find there
6:11:26the swabs from the outsole of the right
6:11:28Nike shoe matched it was a single Source
6:11:31male profile that match again and Stoke
6:11:33with an estimated frequency of 1 in 3.4
6:11:36octillion
6:11:38what happens to DNA when you place items
6:11:41in a washing machine and wash them
6:11:44it depends on the nature of the stain it
6:11:47depends on a lot of things it also
6:11:49depends on how heavily the how heavy the
6:11:51deposit is it can't some of the DNA can
6:11:54be washed off sometimes all the DNA can
6:11:57be washed off
6:12:00it just depends on what happens right
6:12:01and this with these particular shoes did
6:12:04you see anything that may have diluted
6:12:06the DNA profile or can you even I didn't
6:12:09see the shoes so I don't know
6:12:14did you give a statistical analysis with
6:12:16regards to uh the swabs of the outsole
6:12:19the right Nike shoe yes that was a
6:12:21estimated frequency of 1 and 3.4
6:12:23octillion
6:12:24let's go to swabs of the bottom sole of
6:12:27right Nike shoe what did you see there
6:12:29um that was a single Source male profile
6:12:31that matched Gannon Stoke with an
6:12:33estimated frequency of one in 3.4
6:12:35octillion
6:12:36the next item says swabs of inside soul
6:12:40of Nike shoe what did you find with
6:12:44regards to that particular slot
6:12:46um that was a mixture again and I was
6:12:49able to parse out a major profile and
6:12:51the major profile matched Leticia Stoke
6:12:54with an estimated or at least it matched
6:12:56at the interpretable loci with an
6:12:58estimated frequency of 1 in 28 billion
6:13:02and do you understand
6:13:04why Sherry holes would swab the inside
6:13:07of the sole of the Nike shoes yes what
6:13:10was that for for potential wear
6:13:14and do you know how many uh contributors
6:13:16there were to this particular
6:13:18um I can check
6:13:35from the interior
6:13:45is this the left shoe yeah the left shoe
6:13:47it was a mixture of two contributors one
6:13:49of which was male
6:13:52we can scroll down now please on 339
6:13:58one more please help
6:14:02so now we're on the slots of the inside
6:14:05sole of the right Nike shoe what did you
6:14:07find there
6:14:09um the swabs from the inside sole of the
6:14:11right Nike shoe is a mixture of two
6:14:14contributors one of which was male the
6:14:17major profile match Leticia Stoke at the
6:14:20um at The Interpreter below side with us
6:14:22estimated frequency of one in 730
6:14:25septillion do you know what kind of body
6:14:28fluids or what kind of cells we're
6:14:30looking at with regards to these two
6:14:32swabs of the inside of the Murphy you're
6:14:35looking mostly for skin cells that have
6:14:37kind of rubbed off or fallen off over
6:14:39the course of time
6:14:40sweat be a good contributor to that well
6:14:43sweat can contain skin cells in it but
6:14:46it's the sweat is actually a liquid and
6:14:48if there are cells in the liquid then
6:14:50you're you're obtaining a DNA profile
6:14:52from the actual cells not from the
6:14:54liquid
6:14:57the next item we see on people's exhibit
6:14:59339 is people's exhibit 459 which is
6:15:03swabs from base of box and garage south
6:15:06of boards what did you find with regards
6:15:08to that
6:15:09um that was a partial single Source
6:15:11profile that matched again in stalk at
6:15:14the interpretable loci with the
6:15:16estimated frequency of 1 in 87
6:15:19quadrillion
6:15:20and what is partial single Source
6:15:22profile mean partial means that I'm not
6:15:25I'm only seeing evidence of one person
6:15:27in this particular DNA sample but I'm
6:15:30not able to
6:15:33um the technology is not able to detect
6:15:36some some of the locations because it's
6:15:39just a low level of DNA I don't have
6:15:41enough DNA and so for the juries in my
6:15:43benefit question you've got the profile
6:15:46from the toothbrush gannon's profile yes
6:15:48you've got a profile from the swabs of
6:15:51this box in the garage yes
6:15:53one profile has all the are they called
6:15:57it
6:15:57locally uh alleles so loci would be
6:16:01better it's like the locations on the
6:16:02DNA
6:16:05locations
6:16:07correct is that fair yes
6:16:13we can now go to uh 518 which is swabs
6:16:17uh base of stairs and garage under cord
6:16:20you see that yes did you test that for
6:16:23DNA analysis um I did and I obtained a
6:16:25profile that was a mixture of two
6:16:27contributors one of at least one of
6:16:29which was male the major profile matched
6:16:32again in stalk at the interpretable loci
6:16:34with an estimated frequency of 1 in 3.8
6:16:38quintillion
6:16:41we're just going to go down the list
6:16:43people's exhibit 190 or 278 do you see
6:16:46that
6:16:47um yes
6:16:49which was presumptively positive or
6:16:52blood what did you find there
6:16:58um the swab from gannon's bed was a
6:17:00partial profile a single Source male
6:17:02that matched Gannon Stoke with an
6:17:05estimated frequency of one in 456
6:17:07stilian
6:17:09was exhibit 192 a blue and white scrub
6:17:12brush head bristles uh the blue and
6:17:15white scrub brush was a mixture of two
6:17:17at least two contributors at least one
6:17:19of which was male the major profile
6:17:21match Gannon stouk at the interpretable
6:17:23loci with a statistic or an estimated
6:17:26frequency of 1 in 120 septillion
6:17:32scrub brush backside that was a mixture
6:17:36of two contributors at least one of
6:17:38which was male the major profile match
6:17:40Gannon Stoke at the interpretable loci
6:17:43with an estimated frequency of 1 in 2.3
6:17:46trillion
6:17:48then we have 191 a red and white gorilla
6:17:52scrub brush top flat surface what did
6:17:55you find with regards to that
6:17:56um that I obtained only a partial DNA
6:17:59profile that was not suitable for
6:18:00comparison but there was one male 1 it's
6:18:03a it's a profile of at least one male
6:18:08was that a mixture or was it a single
6:18:10Source
6:18:11um my my conclusion was at least one
6:18:13male so we're thinking it could possibly
6:18:16be two
6:18:17um but it thinking it's one
6:18:21and could that be impacted uh with
6:18:24regards to that particular item that had
6:18:26been washed in a dishwasher would that
6:18:28impact the DNA
6:18:29yes
6:18:30is that obvious why that might happen
6:18:33well a dishwasher obviously washes
6:18:35dishes like
6:18:37um like a washing machine but um
6:18:39contained in the soap and that whatever
6:18:41additives you put in the dishwasher
6:18:43there's bleach in that soap and that can
6:18:45break down the DNA
6:18:48the next item we see on 393 is people's
6:18:51exhibit 361 Peak suitcase from South
6:18:55Carolina mesh lining inside what did you
6:18:57find there
6:18:58um that was a single Source mail profile
6:19:00that matched Gannon Style with an
6:19:02estimated frequency of one in 3.4 Quin
6:19:05or excuse me octillion
6:19:07about 365 the blanket from the suitcase
6:19:10that was found
6:19:12um that was a single Source profile
6:19:14single Source mail profile that matched
6:19:16again and stout with an estimated
6:19:17frequency of 1 in 3.4 octillion
6:19:27the next item we have on there it says
6:19:30teal couch pillow from basement uh and
6:19:33just so we're clear
6:19:34um if we skip one item down where it
6:19:36says blue star swabs from pillow on the
6:19:39North couch and basement do you know
6:19:41that's the same item I believe it's the
6:19:44same item one was collected at the scene
6:19:47by the crime scene investigator and the
6:19:49other was collected by Sherry holes
6:19:52what did you find with regards delicious
6:19:54cover all three items 417 at once which
6:19:59are swabs from the blue star what did
6:20:02you find with regards to those swabs
6:20:05um one of them was from a basement area
6:20:07rug and I found a mixture of two
6:20:10contributors at least one of which was
6:20:12male the major male profile match again
6:20:15in stock with an estimated frequency of
6:20:171 in 3.4 octillion the minor was
6:20:21attributable to an unknown
6:20:23uh individual and I gave it a number one
6:20:28because when you find an unknown profile
6:20:30that you don't have a standard to
6:20:32compare it to you just start counting
6:20:35so he this was the first one
6:20:37is that a
6:20:40common to see unknown profiles with
6:20:43also yes
6:20:46yes
6:20:48since in this particular case did you
6:20:50ever get a known profile from Lena's
6:20:53style the eight-year-old girl no I did
6:20:55not
6:20:57common for people who live in the house
6:20:59to leave their DNA seriously yes
6:21:02so let's go down to the next item which
6:21:04is blue star swabs from Criminal on
6:21:06North belching basement what did you
6:21:08find um I believe this was one collected
6:21:10by the CSI because of the blue star
6:21:13identifying information that was a that
6:21:16DNA profile was a mixture of three
6:21:17contributors three male contributors
6:21:20actually uh the major profile match skin
6:21:23and stout at the interpretable loci with
6:21:25an estimated frequency of 1 in 100
6:21:27septillion and the minor was not
6:21:31suitable for comparison
6:21:33and the cut out carpet with burn marks
6:21:36um that DNA profile was a mixture of two
6:21:38contributors at least one of which was
6:21:40male the major profile match Gannon
6:21:43stalk with an estimated frequency of 1
6:21:45in 3.4 octillion
6:21:48the next item we see there is people's
6:21:50exhibit uh 423 and we have four items
6:21:55there plastic cup and storage room
6:21:57outside lip swab
6:21:59and I don't want to read them all but
6:22:01what did you find with regards to this
6:22:02plastic tub people who did it 523
6:22:06lobbying that was submitted to you for
6:22:08View
6:22:09um there were four separate swabs
6:22:11um this one first was the swabs of the
6:22:14stain on the outside lip of the lid the
6:22:17short end of the tub with a label from
6:22:19the basement that was a single Source
6:22:21profile single Source mail profile that
6:22:23matched skin and scalp with an estimated
6:22:25frequency of 1 and 3.4 octillion
6:22:28I have a second one swabs of the stain
6:22:31on the outside corner of the lid from
6:22:33the short end of the tub with the label
6:22:36from the basement that was a single
6:22:38Source mail profile that matched Gannon
6:22:40Stoke with an estimated frequency of 1
6:22:42in 3.4 octillion
6:22:45then I have the swab of a stain on the
6:22:47outside lip Edge and into the side of
6:22:49the container on the short end of the
6:22:51tub in the basement that was a single
6:22:53Source mail profile that matched again
6:22:55in style with an estimated frequency of
6:22:581 and 3.4 octillion
6:23:00and then lastly I have a stain on the
6:23:03inside corner of the lid on the short in
6:23:06the tub with the label from the basement
6:23:07that was a single Source mail profile
6:23:10that matched again and stout with an
6:23:11estimated frequency of 1 and 3.4
6:23:13octillion
6:23:16people's exhibit 519 looks like it's two
6:23:19more blue star sloths that we see on
6:23:21people's exhibit 339. yes one is blue
6:23:25star slots from storage room four what
6:23:27did you find with that one um that was a
6:23:29DNA profile was a mixture of two
6:23:31contributors at least one of which was
6:23:33male the major male profile match again
6:23:35in stealth with an estimated frequency
6:23:37of one in 3.4 octillion
6:23:40and now with regards to the blue star
6:23:42items that we see on 339 do you know
6:23:45what substance that is that you're
6:23:47testing for DNA
6:23:49um it's just an area that reacted to the
6:23:51blue star reagent that they use out on
6:23:53the on the field the blue star is a
6:23:55presumptive test for blood
6:23:58you're discussing whatever they saw
6:23:59right correct
6:24:04correct it was described as blue star
6:24:06positive so we maintain that throughout
6:24:08the report
6:24:09uh the blue star swaps and bases stairs
6:24:12in basement that was a mixture of two
6:24:15contributors at least one of which was
6:24:16male the major male profile matches
6:24:19again in stalk at the interpretable
6:24:21below side with an estimated frequency
6:24:23of 1 in 170 septillion
6:24:26we can go ahead and scroll all the way
6:24:28down to the bottom we should get the
6:24:29rest of them in
6:24:30and then we have people's exhibit 194
6:24:33swab from exterior and opposite of
6:24:36handle energy bottle what did you find
6:24:41um that was a mixture of two
6:24:43contributors one of which was male the
6:24:45major profile matched again and stout
6:24:47with an estimated frequency of 1 in 52
6:24:50septillion and the minor was
6:24:52attributable to unknown number one
6:24:54unknown individual number one
6:24:58because we talked about before correct
6:25:00you didn't have a known profile to
6:25:01manage to right
6:25:04it was exhibit 435 swabs from exterior
6:25:07of Amazon box from storage room three
6:25:09stains what did you find
6:25:11um for actually for all three stains
6:25:13they were all single Source male
6:25:15profiles that matched Gannon Stoke with
6:25:18an estimated frequency of one in 3.4
6:25:20octillion or you did a test on all three
6:25:23of these different DNA samples correct
6:25:26and the DNA profile and the statistic is
6:25:28the same for all three
6:25:31now you tested a lot more items than
6:25:33what we just displayed in people's
6:25:35exhibit 339 is that correct correct are
6:25:38these the items that you were able to uh
6:25:41identify Gannon Stout to or the
6:25:43defendant to with regards to your DNA
6:25:45testing yes
6:25:47are there other items that you
6:25:50were not able to obtain a profile to or
6:25:52are not able to come to a conclusion
6:25:54with that were not presented to this
6:25:56jury yes there were
6:26:00those are my questions John thanks
6:26:03Council approach for a moment
6:26:46breast contamination Mr cook thank you
6:26:53foreign
6:27:08my name is will cook I represent Miss
6:27:10Stout in this case I've just got some
6:27:12follow-up questions for you ma'am not a
6:27:15lot
6:27:16um
6:27:18when if you could look at 194
6:27:22on the chart and for the DNA part it
6:27:25says major profile matches Gannon do you
6:27:28see that or yes or you can turn around
6:27:30yeah
6:27:33so
6:27:34Mr Young discussed this with you
6:27:37um
6:27:38so there's more than one DNA sample
6:27:41floating around in this uh sample there
6:27:44are there's evidence of two individuals
6:27:47in this mixture okay uh
6:27:52you fully develop the other sample or
6:27:56the other DNA contributor or the other
6:27:59profile I guess the minor profile when
6:28:02when a sample is in a test tube and I
6:28:04develop a profile and I obtain the graph
6:28:07this is what I get there's no more
6:28:09developing portions of a profile I
6:28:12develop a profile and this one happened
6:28:14to be a mixture and I have an unknown
6:28:17individual identified as the minor
6:28:19contributor okay so you can't you're not
6:28:24looking at this uh
6:28:26number 194 and going well the major
6:28:29profile matches Ganon and the minor one
6:28:33is Leticia stalk or father or mother or
6:28:38anything like that they are compared to
6:28:40all the standards that I have in the
6:28:42case and I was not able to
6:28:45make say that they it matched any of the
6:28:48standards that I had in the case which
6:28:50is why the miner was identified as
6:28:52unknown individual number one okay
6:28:55so the matches on this whole chart we
6:28:57just went over the couple matches the
6:29:00Leticia stouch involve the Nike running
6:29:02shoe yes okay
6:29:05now some of these uh tests or the
6:29:09samples were collected very on in the
6:29:11investigation uh the winter spring of
6:29:152020 correct yes okay and some of them
6:29:19like the last one up here exhibit 435
6:29:22the Amazon box
6:29:24um
6:29:25there was no request made for the DNA
6:29:28testing on that until
6:29:30um maybe two years after this homicide
6:29:34correct I don't know when the request I
6:29:37do actually have the request here I can
6:29:39tell you when the request was put in on
6:29:41March 28 2022
6:29:44okay
6:29:46I have a request date for January 27
6:29:492022 with the report date of March 17th
6:29:53the 28th too
6:29:56oh my my error I'm sorry okay you're
6:29:59correct it's uh January 27 2022. I was
6:30:03reading the due date okay
6:30:06um
6:30:07so
6:30:09yeah
6:30:12there's a two-year difference in between
6:30:14the early samples that were taken to the
6:30:16final ones that were taken and
6:30:18ultimately DNA tested correct
6:30:21um I don't know when the boxes were
6:30:23submitted originally to evidence okay or
6:30:26the items on this particular report they
6:30:28may have been evident in evidence the
6:30:30whole time and we were just act to ask
6:30:32to go back and examine these as well I
6:30:34can't answer that okay
6:30:36I think that is probably it
6:30:39a second
6:30:44always first goes there to Mr talini and
6:30:46then says no further questions let's see
6:30:48if he does it again
6:30:55so you have a question is one of your uh
6:30:57who are the standards you were using you
6:30:59had Leticia Stout yes Gannon yes
6:31:02gannon's Father yes gannon's mother
6:31:05correct uh gannon's sister Lena no I did
6:31:08not have that standard you didn't have
6:31:10Lena okay did you have a Harley hunt no
6:31:13who uh do you know who Harley hunt was
6:31:16no you didn't know that that was
6:31:18leticia's daughter that was living in
6:31:20the house no okay
6:31:23that's all I have thank you redirect no
6:31:25thank you do any of the jurors have any
6:31:28questions for Ms Minogue
6:31:32does it look like it all right
6:31:35um ladies and gentlemen oh Ms Minogue
6:31:37you can go ahead and step thank you man
6:31:39that's right
6:31:52together there
6:32:00all right ladies and gentlemen we are
6:32:02again in the same position that we were
6:32:04earlier today and that is uh that
6:32:08um we do not have any other witnesses to
6:32:10fill the day we anticipate however uh
6:32:13the
6:32:14um the witnesses will be here tomorrow
6:32:16therefore they are traveling
6:32:18um so if I can have everyone back in the
6:32:21morning at the same place same time we
6:32:23should be able to start on time at nine
6:32:24o'clock again don't discuss the case
6:32:26among yourselves don't discuss the case
6:32:28with anyone else don't do your own
6:32:29independent research about any aspect of
6:32:31this case don't go looking up what
6:32:34septillion and quadrillion and all of
6:32:36that stuff means I know everybody wants
6:32:38to get home and do that you simply can't
6:32:40so we'll see everybody tomorrow at the
6:32:43regular time all rise for the jury
6:32:45please
6:32:47I don't know
6:33:19I think you may all be seated records
6:33:21should reflect the jury has left the
6:33:22courtroom since we have this time I want
6:33:24to talk a little bit about uh potential
6:33:27Wednesday morning issues
6:33:30um
6:33:31are your people flying in today tomorrow
6:33:34or what
6:33:37hey judge okay so they so that part the
6:33:42weather should not impact our travel
6:33:44here
6:33:45um Wednesday morning if we have a two
6:33:49hour delay my thought would be that we
6:33:51start at 10 30 that will give us time to
6:33:54get the jury back at 10 o'clock
6:33:57um and then
6:33:59um give us time to get in place by 10
6:34:0330. I spoke with court in transport over
6:34:06the lunch hour to see what
6:34:09impact it is on their operations and
6:34:12they said it doesn't matter they just
6:34:13bring everybody over at the same time
6:34:14they just hold them until everybody gets
6:34:16here okay so
6:34:19um who who are we anticipating
6:34:21potentially on Wednesday on Wednesday
6:34:24good question
6:34:26yeah I think it's just Dr Torres judge
6:34:28but let me make sure and is she coming
6:34:29up from Pueblo
6:34:31I think she actually lives here okay
6:34:34um
6:34:35I think I think storm track is supposed
6:34:38to be more North so I think coming up
6:34:40from Pueblo is not as much of an issue
6:34:42but uh we'll deal with it if we need to
6:34:45I suppose yeah so we actually have two
6:34:48witnesses slated for potentially on
6:34:49Wednesday depending of course on how
6:34:51everybody goes for timing wise both of
6:34:54them are local so we should have no
6:34:55trouble with that okay all right all
6:34:57right so we'll just keep an eye on the
6:34:58weather then and see where we are
6:35:01um
6:35:02on Wednesday morning and hope for the
6:35:05best and I also don't know what the
6:35:08impact will be on potential jurors here
6:35:10either
6:35:11um so we'll just have to have to deal
6:35:13with that so okay anything else from the
6:35:16prosecution not that I can think of
6:35:18judge defense well I think Mr Young Mr
6:35:21Young
6:35:22sent you of jury instructions because I
6:35:25know I sent them to defense as well just
6:35:27like when all right yes I do I I thought
6:35:31if you meant in the last day or so the
6:35:33answer would be no
6:35:34um but I do have the uh jury
6:35:36instructions that uh you sent
6:35:39was about a few days before we started I
6:35:42think it was or the week before or
6:35:43something like that
6:35:44okay
6:35:46all right
6:35:47um okay defense have anything else okay
6:35:50all right we'll see everybody tomorrow
6:35:51morning thank you
6:35:58okay
6:36:02stand by please
6:36:05we're going to debrief and look at a
6:36:07couple of Articles including where
6:36:09Gannon is uh buried everyone's been
6:36:13asking that as well we're going to look
6:36:14at who Paul Halls is because we had
6:36:17Sherry holes on the stand and I also did
6:36:19not know that they were married but
6:36:20apparently they are
6:36:21so okay Stefan you may not look it up
6:36:25don't look it up
6:36:27I know we're not the jury but I'm like
6:36:29oh I don't know if we're going to look
6:36:30that up it's a lot looked up million
6:36:33Millard billion trillion quadrillion
6:36:35quintillion sextillion septillion and
6:36:38octillion oh my word
6:36:41wow okay
6:36:43so we've got a few things to go over
6:36:44there were some very interesting bits
6:36:47there
6:36:48so let's quickly debrief okay
6:36:52wait I'm getting to it I'm still got
6:36:54notes here from okay so we had Sherry
6:36:56Halls a forensic serologist and DNA
6:36:59analyst and
6:37:03swabs lots of swabs were taking lots of
6:37:05tests lots of presumptive tests for
6:37:07blood it's a chemical presumptive test
6:37:09sorry if I'm if I'm a little bit out of
6:37:11sync I think like YouTube servers are
6:37:13doing something weird today
6:37:15anyway so
6:37:17this is all from like around February uh
6:37:202020 when all these reports were made
6:37:22okay
6:37:23so
6:37:26there's carpets they were talking about
6:37:27I could see you all have questions about
6:37:29the carpet it's carpet Number One Carpet
6:37:30number two and then there's an unlabeled
6:37:32rug
6:37:33that is all related to ganon's bedroom
6:37:36it is not related to this candle
6:37:39incident
6:37:40and please if you remember tell me
6:37:42because
6:37:43I'm a very visual person so that's how I
6:37:45remember thinking now what they found in
6:37:46the trash remember in the trash they
6:37:48found the candle and a sock and
6:37:50something but I don't think they ever
6:37:52found that piece of carpet that Leticia
6:37:55cut out so that is why
6:37:58what I'm understanding is that's why
6:38:00they haven't
6:38:01talked about the test of the candle
6:38:04incident carpet they talking about
6:38:05gannon's bedroom where the murder
6:38:07occurred on January 27 2020.
6:38:10so it's these like pieces of carpet that
6:38:13they cut out and they lifted and then
6:38:14there was blood on the carpet on the
6:38:17padding and on the concrete as well and
6:38:19there was like a little rug I mean
6:38:21there's all that but the brilliant thing
6:38:23about all of
6:38:24am I matching by the way is my mouth
6:38:26matching how I'm talking
6:38:28I feel like it's slightly out of sync
6:38:30but anyway sorry about then
6:38:32what I'm loving is that Leticia remember
6:38:34her little story
6:38:36in the interrogation the FBI
6:38:39uh interview when she's talking about
6:38:42having a miscarriage and that's maybe
6:38:44what the blood is and that it's gannon's
6:38:46nose bleeds and all this kind of stuff
6:38:47okay the nosebleeds thing but the
6:38:49miscarriage stuff what
6:38:51um
6:38:52yeah I know no this is all confirmed as
6:38:55gannon's blood right
6:38:57yes okay I was just double checking
6:38:59myself
6:38:59how I visualize that is just like no
6:39:01that carpet's gone I wonder what
6:39:03happened to that carpet and actually
6:39:05Hawkeye Seneca I don't know if he's
6:39:07still in the chat but you were saying in
6:39:09the chat
6:39:09um
6:39:10you wonder if anything got disposed of
6:39:12on the hike and that is a very good
6:39:15question
6:39:17um because the T-shirt the candle oh no
6:39:20no they went on the hike first then it
6:39:22was the candle incident
6:39:25sorry I'm thinking off Saturday when she
6:39:27said he hurts his foot but either way
6:39:28it's a good question I wonder if there
6:39:30was anything else that happened on the
6:39:31Saturday night that you could have you
6:39:33know disposed of anything
6:39:35on the hike but on Sunday night January
6:39:3926th was when the candle incident
6:39:40happened she used a box cutter to start
6:39:44cutting out that carpet and then her
6:39:45words I will never forget it because
6:39:47they sounded so Sinister she said I
6:39:49couldn't cut deep enough with
6:39:52the box cutter so I had to find a
6:39:54sharper object ooh
6:39:56right
6:40:01what about the carpet piece in the roll
6:40:03of carpet that had blood on it
6:40:05I think we're talking about the same
6:40:06thing remember the rolled up carpet in
6:40:08the storage room with a smaller piece
6:40:10inside that bled I think it was cut out
6:40:12piece
6:40:13I'm gonna have to refresh my memory on
6:40:15that but I think they don't want Carpet
6:40:16One two and then this unlabeled rug but
6:40:18all of these
6:40:19match
6:40:21the presumptive positive test of ganon's
6:40:24DNA
6:40:26yes so much blood I know okay so trigger
6:40:29warning yes it's it's actually really
6:40:30when you really think about it it's
6:40:32really terrible
6:40:34you know sometimes we're just like
6:40:35powering through these trials together
6:40:36but like oh my word there was blood all
6:40:38over the place then there was um
6:40:40leticia's shoes
6:40:42and the right shoe
6:40:45had um gannon's blood on it so she she'd
6:40:49washed her shoes it was on top of the
6:40:51laundry pile if you don't remember
6:40:52remember everything is time stamped and
6:40:54chapped it out for you those pretty much
6:40:57mean the same thing but if you hover
6:40:58over the video you can see that the
6:40:59labels pop up you can look in the pinned
6:41:01comment and you can look in the
6:41:02description box of every livestream
6:41:03replay I always take a lot of time and
6:41:06effort to do that for you so you can
6:41:07easily navigate and that's how I also do
6:41:09I go navigate too because I want to go
6:41:11revisit those laundry
6:41:14room photos and see you know the shoes
6:41:17and
6:41:18maybe we can look at some of that
6:41:20tomorrow
6:41:21you know but then wait wait do you
6:41:23remember
6:41:24the bag when you remember when Leticia
6:41:26Stark was arrested in Myrtle Beach in
6:41:28South Carolina
6:41:30in a van that I think was her aunts
6:41:32and there was this bag in there with a
6:41:35blanket and we were also confused of
6:41:37like why are there some drops of blood
6:41:39on this blanket because ganon's remains
6:41:42were found in an olive green bag with
6:41:44three blankets inside and a pillow
6:41:47again in
6:41:48okay so when we saw this other bear we
6:41:51were like and I was waiting like at what
6:41:54point are we gonna hear about that
6:41:55well they said today that those that
6:41:58blanket
6:42:00that's gannon's blood oh that's that's
6:42:02scary I don't know why she's got a
6:42:04separate bag
6:42:05you know is that from like a separate
6:42:07incident or what is that from
6:42:09man they also talked about this teal
6:42:12uh couch cushion which I thought that's
6:42:15what will cook will go after because I
6:42:17talked about three profiles and they
6:42:18could really only find gannon's profile
6:42:20and the two others it was partial they
6:42:22couldn't actually
6:42:23it wasn't strong enough to find a match
6:42:25right
6:42:26so but I mean it's a couch cushion so
6:42:29there's that
6:42:31um also just to clarify again and when
6:42:34he was found
6:42:36he was wearing sports pants and a jacket
6:42:39and little football socks is how the
6:42:42bridge inspector described it
6:42:44um so I just wrote that down to clarify
6:42:47and then we also saw last week that like
6:42:51um like a storage container with like
6:42:53little purplish handles yeah there was
6:42:56blood on there too and then those scrub
6:42:58brushes I mean three scrub brushes you
6:43:01guys know someone was asking what's a
6:43:02scrub brush you know what a scrub brush
6:43:03is like
6:43:05scrub brush let's look at one
6:43:08kind of like this well I don't know it
6:43:09could be any combination of these
6:43:11scrub brush right
6:43:13three of them oh that
6:43:16I almost said woman but creature was
6:43:19Colleen
6:43:20she was scrubbing scrubbing scrubbing
6:43:22and then she put those scrub brushes
6:43:24in the dishwasher which
6:43:27no no to me I'm just like um
6:43:30I'm sure you'll feel like that but I'm
6:43:31like oh hell no
6:43:33yes um Sharon says the fingernails
6:43:36comment bothered me too
6:43:38I think at that point due to the decomp
6:43:41right they couldn't have a a full
6:43:43profile
6:43:44so there's that as well
6:43:46yeah I'm not sure why they didn't do a
6:43:48Harley or Elena profile don't know maybe
6:43:50it's based on
6:43:52what they found I don't know though very
6:43:54interesting
6:43:55Sarah Sunshine says uh I thought
6:44:02sorry I'm trying to make sense of this
6:44:03one I was the she thought
6:44:07it was perfect time
6:44:09she she thought it was the perfect guy
6:44:11when she did that when L was gone is
6:44:13that what I'm talking about thank you
6:44:14for your super sticker
6:44:17okay so then we also learned that the
6:44:19bed
6:44:19presumptive positive for blood
6:44:22the carpets the floor the scrub brushes
6:44:25and then that that we saw the pink polka
6:44:27dot suitcase and the blue blanket and
6:44:29there was another suitcase that's very
6:44:31interesting as well vinegar bottle the
6:44:34handle
6:44:35blood as well an Amazon box as well oh
6:44:39yes
6:44:40so we've got that we got dishwasher
6:44:42totally not suspicious
6:44:44Turtle they're not suspicious now what I
6:44:46want to show you quickly is
6:44:48I know it's a Wikipedia page so I don't
6:44:50know if that's boring to any of you but
6:44:52poor holes um
6:44:55I just want to tell you who Paul holes
6:44:56is because I believe it's his wife that
6:44:58was on the stand which was um Sherry
6:45:00holes who just talked about her DNA
6:45:03swabbing and all of that so he's an
6:45:04American former Cold Case Investigator
6:45:06for the Contra Costa County Sheriff's
6:45:10Office he's known for his contributions
6:45:12to solving the Golden State killer case
6:45:15using Advanced methods of identifying
6:45:17the killer with DNA and genealogy
6:45:19technology since retiring in March 2018
6:45:21he's contributed to books television and
6:45:23podcasts about the Golden State killer
6:45:25and True Crime but the other thing was
6:45:28right before they arrested Richard Allen
6:45:30in the Delphi case
6:45:32pull holes on his Instagram profile
6:45:35mentioned
6:45:36that there'll be an arrest soon in the
6:45:40in the Delphi case I think you mentioned
6:45:42the Delphi case specifically but he was
6:45:44like things are happening there's gonna
6:45:46be something and then there was Richard
6:45:48Allen was arrested
6:45:50two to four weeks later or something
6:45:52after his post if I remember correctly
6:45:53and I'm like whoa he probably
6:45:55contributed to that case as well
6:45:57they're just maybe not saying it because
6:45:59you know it's still
6:46:01going to trial and all of that
6:46:04so let's see um what else I got here
6:46:06so yeah holes
6:46:09Legend into crime and to have his wife
6:46:13if that was really his wife which you
6:46:14guys are saying you looked as well I
6:46:16also looked and I'm like oh
6:46:18wow understand that was amazing and then
6:46:21we had Donna Minogue on the stand as
6:46:24well and she does DNA lab work and
6:46:27um
6:46:28serology and all of that right DNA
6:46:30analyst and
6:46:32also tested the the
6:46:34toothbrush for ganon's DNA and so that's
6:46:38how they matched everything right so wow
6:46:41a lot of matching which is great to hear
6:46:43because that's what we want to hear
6:46:44we've seen a lot of things but we're
6:46:46waiting for this like now the final
6:46:48confirmation yes it was gannon's blood
6:46:50there and there and there and there and
6:46:51yes those Villa t-shirt shoes and her
6:46:54DNA was on it and all of that right
6:46:57let's see what else I got yeah the major
6:46:59profile match Leticia and then what
6:47:00Stefan quoted all those big figures
6:47:03wow jury may not look it up okay
6:47:06so let's just see what else I got okay
6:47:08I've got that
6:47:09so then
6:47:11I wanted to just show you this one
6:47:14again and style laid to rest in South
6:47:17Carolina
6:47:18a young boy lost too soon was laid to
6:47:21rest over the weekend so that was from
6:47:22September 27 2020 when this was
6:47:26um published they say
6:47:29through his oh sorry though his grieving
6:47:31loved ones continue to Grapple with a
6:47:33heinous ground that resulted in his
6:47:34death on Saturday the focus was on
6:47:36gannon's stuff celebrating the life he
6:47:38led and the people he touched in his two
6:47:40brief 11 years I was chosen to be the
6:47:43mom of an Angel
6:47:45Albert you were chosen to be the father
6:47:47of an Angel Elena you were chosen to be
6:47:49the sister of an Angel Mother Land and
6:47:52hired father Albert stock and sister
6:47:54Elena had their final moments Saturday
6:47:56with the boy they affectionately called
6:47:57Bubba
6:47:59since he was reported missing near the
6:48:01start of the year it's been a harrowing
6:48:04road for the family as his runaway case
6:48:07became a missing child case and
6:48:08ultimately a murder case each time they
6:48:11say goodbye to their son it gets more
6:48:12difficult but Saturday was especially
6:48:14emotional as they finally lay their
6:48:16little boy to rest in his home state of
6:48:18South Carolina at about 10 o'clock this
6:48:20morning I buried my sweet son in a
6:48:22cemetery in Charleston
6:48:24and if you guys remember the Daniel
6:48:27Robinson case and please check out my
6:48:29playlist for that case it's still a
6:48:31missing person's case it's extremely sad
6:48:33there's no answers yet
6:48:36um but Mr David Robinson who's been on
6:48:39this channel many times is from
6:48:40Charleston South Carolina so when I saw
6:48:42Charleston I'm like wow because David's
6:48:45there too
6:48:46right so he's close to where Gannon is
6:48:49buried
6:48:51um so yeah please do check out that as
6:48:53well the family stood strong in front of
6:48:55their friends and relatives during
6:48:56Saturday's Services they reflected on
6:48:58the goodness in gannon's heart which
6:49:00his heart was full of goodness I mean he
6:49:03was an 11 year he was 11 years old
6:49:0611.
6:49:07oh Leticia oh my word what on Earth were
6:49:09you thinking
6:49:12he has a smile that just brightens up
6:49:15the room and that happened at the time
6:49:17he was able to smile he just had a Grace
6:49:19and unbelieving spirit about him I guess
6:49:22I can explain it as just an old man he
6:49:25would just sit and have a heart of gold
6:49:26and do anything for anybody Hyatt said
6:49:30you know what said Leticia also said
6:49:32that she's like oh he would do anything
6:49:34for me even you know FBI interrogation
6:49:36video yeah she said that which isn't
6:49:39nice to hear it from her
6:49:41I'm going to look at your comments in a
6:49:43moment I just want to finish reading
6:49:44this bubba was the nicest person my only
6:49:46brother and my favorite brother whose
6:49:48little sister said
6:49:51the parents said his story has toured
6:49:53lessons hold your children close and
6:49:56love them because when it's over it's
6:49:58over and you can't get them back stuff
6:49:59said
6:50:00the family says they are grateful for
6:50:02the overwhelming support of people in
6:50:04ganon's Native South Carolina and in
6:50:06Colorado where he spent the last months
6:50:08of his life I'm so glad for events like
6:50:11this and events in Colorado almost every
6:50:13single memory of my son was joy and
6:50:14laughter and fun I just
6:50:17love for everybody that came in contact
6:50:19with him stuck said I mean Al said one
6:50:22of his favorite memories of all time
6:50:24was driving to Alaska because he was
6:50:28going to be stationed there supposed to
6:50:29be for two years until Leticia messed
6:50:31that up too by claiming that he's
6:50:33captain and Colonel had sexually
6:50:34harassed her oh my word
6:50:37anyway so he drove there with Lane and
6:50:39Gannon it was him and Lena Gannon in the
6:50:40car and then he said Leticia and Holly
6:50:43joined them later so he said that's one
6:50:45of his favorite memories
6:50:46yes Katie bug says old man equals old
6:50:49soul
6:50:53yeah they were talking about
6:50:55um the court may start late tomorrow
6:50:57we'll have to monitor that just to see
6:50:58what's happening I'm gonna have to
6:50:59listen to the end of that uh
6:51:01day again okay I'm out of sync can't do
6:51:05anything about that right now
6:51:07let's see okay I should be good now
6:51:10um
6:51:12so they said Gannon
6:51:14Landon said Gannon is not only my hero
6:51:18he's your hero and it means the world to
6:51:20me I just want to say thank you to
6:51:21everyone that's here from all the
6:51:23pouring love from everywhere Hyatt said
6:51:25he's the greatest person in the whole
6:51:27wide world his sister added
6:51:29can't imagine what they're all going
6:51:31through and especially his little sister
6:51:34gannon's stepmother Leticia Stark was
6:51:36arrested for his murder between the
6:51:38pandemic and questions about her
6:51:39competency her case has been slow going
6:51:41but it's gradually making its way
6:51:43through the legal system and this was
6:51:45published in September of 2020. so here
6:51:47we are now in
6:51:50April of 2023 that's been a long wait
6:51:54for them
6:51:55wow so much patience these families have
6:51:57to have to go through the Senate's
6:52:00terribly traumatic re-traumatizing again
6:52:02but at the end of the day yep they want
6:52:05to see Justice for Ganon
6:52:10so okay sorry let me just finish this
6:52:12recently the Colorado State Hospital
6:52:13found she's mentally competent to stand
6:52:15trial however Colorado law allows her
6:52:18attorneys to request a second opinion
6:52:19and then she got a third opinion as well
6:52:21so that is what happened there okay so
6:52:23we've seen that
6:52:25I actually think
6:52:26I think that's everything I wanted to
6:52:28show you today
6:52:32yes yes okay thank you I was wondering
6:52:34because in my brain I started as I think
6:52:36Wednesday is going to be like 10 or 10
6:52:3830. remember they wanted to start a 10
6:52:39to make sure the jury yeah yeah so
6:52:41Wednesday
6:52:42I'm hoping everyone in Colorado is okay
6:52:45they're talking about bad weather
6:52:46rolling in and all that kind of stuff so
6:52:47sorry about that
6:52:49hope you'll be all right and
6:52:51you know where you will be here
6:52:54um if the stream is happening of course
6:52:57we'll be here watching this whole trial
6:52:58together so that was day 13.
6:53:02yes
6:53:03Sherry says I didn't realize Gannon was
6:53:05later right here in South Carolina in
6:53:07Charleston 45 hours from me
6:53:10yes
6:53:14well
6:53:16that's about it for today thank you so
6:53:19much for watching with me
6:53:24I just want to see this quickly
6:53:26Ganon was wearing his jacket
6:53:28when I'm saying again because people
6:53:30call me G as well and then sometimes I'm
6:53:31like what Gannon was wearing his jacket
6:53:33when he died which means he didn't have
6:53:35time to remove his jacket before she
6:53:36killed him she killed him as soon as
6:53:38they got home from pitco
6:53:39seems so yes because they got home at 2
6:53:4214 P.M
6:53:44Baja past three when Lena
6:53:47was back she was told to go outside
6:53:49because Leticia is obviously busy
6:53:51cleaning so
6:53:53yes
6:53:55Lieutenant Peter pranzo says
6:53:58well done G
6:54:00some rest
6:54:01yes so if you missed the morning
6:54:05stream like as in this was one long
6:54:07stream if you missed the morning session
6:54:08let's say okay and again sorry if I'm
6:54:10out of sync I can just see there's a bit
6:54:12of a lag here
6:54:13if you missed it go check it out from
6:54:15the beginning even at 1.5 speed all very
6:54:18interesting I'm gonna now do all those
6:54:19time stamps for you and everything
6:54:21and now yeah I regret making this huge
6:54:23coffee because I was ready for that home
6:54:24stretch another ended just a little bit
6:54:26early but I'm going to put all this
6:54:27energy into timestamps and I'm going to
6:54:30look for those pictures again like um of
6:54:33the storage room and the shoes and all
6:54:35of that that we saw which I think was
6:54:36last week
6:54:39thank you so much all for being here
6:54:40thank you mods really appreciated
6:54:43patrons if you haven't yet seen the post
6:54:45I made earlier for you today there are
6:54:47some pictures of Ganon
6:54:49and Lena and it's so sweet I mean it's
6:54:53heartbreaking but they are such nice
6:54:55pictures so thank you to Grizzly cat for
6:54:57sourcing that for us and
6:55:00yeah and grizzly cat got me a whole
6:55:01bunch of really nice pictures so I've
6:55:03made a nice lunch break Montage for you
6:55:06which you'll hopefully see tomorrow
6:55:07today was a very long lunch break so we
6:55:09re-listened to Elle's calls and we can
6:55:12not call sorry his testimony from day
6:55:13two and we can continue with that here
6:55:16and there in between in breaks if we
6:55:17don't have anything like this to break
6:55:18down but otherwise go check out day two
6:55:20if you haven't heard El Stark's
6:55:22testimony yet
6:55:24I'm glad you like the Recaps MPCs love
6:55:26your Recaps gizzler thank you so much to
6:55:28everyone who bought super stickers today
6:55:30supported the channel became members
6:55:33check out the members only playlist
6:55:34we'll have another members only stream
6:55:35soon again
6:55:37um I don't I definitely can't do it
6:55:38every time because for me it's already
6:55:39almost midnight now so good time to get
6:55:43some rest and but make sure that if you
6:55:46are a member check out the community tab
6:55:48members only playlist and you should get
6:55:49notifications if I if I do a stream
6:55:52also lastly thank you for the coffees
6:55:54the paypals oh my word you guys are so
6:55:56sweet following me on Twitter yes come
6:55:58to Twitter I'm very active on there
6:56:00usually okay I'm very busy now with the
6:56:01trial but usually I'm very active there
6:56:03so I will see you then I just want to
6:56:05quickly see
6:56:07yes
6:56:08yeah so
6:56:10replay on 1.5 speed if you miss things I
6:56:13love 1.5 speed
6:56:15sometimes even two times speed and I
6:56:17will see you again soon okay stay safe
6:56:20everyone and make sure you look after
6:56:22yourself okay bye
6:56:30[Music]
6:56:40[Music]
6:56:52thank you
6:57:02[Music]
6:57:08[Music]
6:57:27foreign

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This page contains the full transcript of Letecia Stauch Trial Day 13 Livestream | FBI Video Interview and NEW Witnesses by Grizzly True Crime, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 64,088 words across 10,005 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

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