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Letecia Stauch Trial Day 12 Pt 2 | FBI Interrogation Continues — Transcript

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0:00we took our break we were in the midst
0:02of a testimony from Mr grusing that's
0:04where we will
0:06resume Mr Allen thank you honor and just
0:09so that we're on the same page as far as
0:11the record we just listened to a and
0:13watched a portion of the interview from
0:17uh time stamps 1 Hour 1 minute 20 second
0:19through 1 hour 26 minutes and 58 seconds
0:23um in the beginning of this portion of
0:26the interview um you asked the defendant
0:28to describe uh
0:31um that fire uh in the basement do you
0:34remember that yes she gives you some
0:37extraneous information there uh
0:39specifically like Kobe Bryant um was it
0:42consistent that when you would start
0:44getting into particular points of
0:46interest as it relates to the alleged
0:48crimes here that she would give these
0:50extraneous details yes and that was
0:52consistent through the phone calls as
0:54well in your from your perspective was
0:58that another distraction attempt to sort
1:00of create these tangents off of the main
1:02path of uh what you're trying to drive
1:04towards
1:09yes cell phon please apparently the cell
1:13phone wants me to repeat it judge I
1:14don't
1:17know
1:19whoever uh you had asked about details
1:23about this fire um in this particular
1:25portion in like col of flame those
1:30height of the Flames why were you asking
1:32those
1:33questions well as I explained before the
1:36video the candle was a significant
1:38incident she had been talking about that
1:41since February 13th that I came on that
1:44Ganon sustained serious burns from that
1:47that caused him even to bleed and I
1:49wanted to see how she
1:51described the not only the candle but
1:53the fire itself and how he was
1:57injured what was your perspective of of
2:01that either reluctance or unwillingness
2:03to share details of the fire the this
2:06the colors of the Flames the height of
2:07the Flames uh why why is that
2:10potentially significant to you in this
2:13interview well I tried multiple times to
2:16get her to explain to me what she saw
2:19and I I tried to give her different
2:21prompts on maybe even motioning with her
2:24hand how tall it might be or how hot it
2:27was or colors and she was not
2:30comfortable doing that okay there was
2:34also discussion about the burns on Ganon
2:36um she describes on one hand that there
2:39were little burns on his arms and then
2:40says by Monday they're peeling um any
2:43significance to that for you the seems
2:46to be some Divergent um statements as to
2:49the severity of these
2:51Burns yes in our phone call on February
2:5513th she was saying that Ganon was
2:57peeling and peeling his Burns and that
2:59they were very bloody
3:00and that's a lot different from how she
3:02was describing those to me in this
3:05interview in that particular and you're
3:07referring back to a different one of
3:08these recorded calls that we listen to
3:10correct um did that appear to be from
3:13your perspective a way to explain why
3:15there would be blood on his walls and in
3:17his bedroom
3:18yes so again to explain away important
3:21details in the investigation
3:25yes in this particular uh discussion of
3:28the fire in the basement
3:30um she gives a long description about
3:32opening Windows and how people are
3:34sleeping upstairs everybody is but then
3:36Ganon ends up downstairs um did that
3:39appear to be um an isolation of Ganon um
3:41based on the way you're hearing that
3:44yeah it didn't make sense uh to me at
3:47the time on why he would be that back
3:48down there but I decided not to press it
3:52um does that also um I guess building on
3:56that the fact that she describes all the
3:58windows being opened talking about mid
4:01to late January likely very cold in
4:03there uh was that significant at all to
4:06you yeah I wasn't really taking in all
4:09of that
4:11but I didn't think from talking with El
4:14Paso the sheriff's office that there was
4:17such a cause for so much smoke and
4:19inhalation and windows being opened okay
4:23um next I want to ask you about um
4:25during this interview did you ask her
4:27about um whether she went to work on
4:29that that Monday January 27th yes I did
4:32okay so we're going to jump to 1 hour 27
4:34minutes um
4:36flat and we're going to play from 1 hour
4:3927 minutes to 1 hour 29 minutes and 42
4:47seconds your so what I did was I said um
4:52I told Albert I said hey I'll just stay
4:54at home with Canon today and again he
4:57didn't write me back or he didn't
4:59whatever
5:00uh but the plan was I wasn't going to go
5:04back to the teaching like that was the
5:08plan was I was not going back to
5:09teaching so starting when was that a
5:12plan I think it was like December so I
5:16was just going to try to use like days
5:19and try to you know whatever CU I didn't
5:23I just didn't want to go back to
5:24teaching right what did you tell your
5:27school as far as why you didn't show up
5:29that day for that day I didn't talk to
5:31them about anything that day your school
5:33you didn't mm not that day did you just
5:35not show you have classes waiting on you
5:38or no no no no no no the okay so what
5:40happened was I transitioned because I
5:43was like okay I wasn't going to be a
5:45teacher anymore and I was like okay well
5:46I have to do something until this like
5:50the whole flight attendant thing started
5:52so I had to do something until then I
5:54couldn't just not have money or whatever
5:57so I got on D what is it I don't know
6:01what district it's called but it's one
6:02of the districts and I said I would do a
6:04long-term s sub position or I would do
6:08um the regular subing position and then
6:10so then I just at that point was going
6:13to just call in whenever I could work I
6:15think it's d8 I have it in my email um I
6:19could just call in whenever I worked or
6:21whatever and
6:22just so were you scheduled to show up
6:25then Monday morning from the school that
6:28I wasn't going to work at any more I had
6:30already told them that I wasn't like I
6:31didn't even complete paperwork with them
6:33yet so it wasn't even I wasn't they
6:35weren counting on you to show up that
6:37day or what what do you mean but I had
6:40like I hadn't like signed any contracts
6:44I hadn't like done anything with them
6:46because the whole plan was was not going
6:47to be teaching I was just going to be um
6:50okay yeah I get you didn't sign
6:52contracts but were they planning for you
6:54to come in to do something on Monday and
6:56you had to call in I I never called in
6:58on Monday I already told him down or
7:00something no on Thursday or Friday I had
7:01already told them I'm okay on Thursday
7:04or Friday I had already told them that I
7:06wasn't coming in like for I didn't go in
7:09Friday either like I had already told
7:11them I wasn't so it was like you're
7:13asking me about if I told them Monday
7:15but I'd already told them prior well
7:17You' already told them so you didn't
7:18have to tell them you're not coming in
7:19on Monday right cuz I had already told
7:21them because see on my dad's side there
7:22was someone who passed away and I just
7:24used that as a a reason why I wasn't
7:26coming on the F the prior week
7:30oh
7:32okay so Mr grusing um when she's given
7:36you this answer what information did you
7:37have already about uh her employment on
7:40that Monday I had I think in the 4
7:43o'clock AM hour she had texted to say
7:47one of her relatives that got hit by a
7:49car and was killed and that's why she
7:51was not coming into
7:53work and the way that she's describing
7:55it it sounds like she's saying that this
7:57was a text that she sent the previous
7:59week to a different school as opposed to
8:01the one that she was now supposed to
8:03work at on Monday January 27th that's
8:06correct what was uh significant of that
8:09to
8:10you I was attempting to walk her through
8:13her own timeline that she had provided
8:16us on uh the the Sunday night burn
8:19injuries and then what happened Monday
8:22morning and that was the next logical
8:24thing that she should have been
8:25describing to to me and then like you
8:28said she put it back on either Thursday
8:30or Friday
8:33Okay the reason that she um gives in
8:36that portion of the interview is that uh
8:38she didn't want to go back into teaching
8:41right yes um
8:44did did she ever say in this part of the
8:47interview or any other part of the
8:48interview or phone calls um having any
8:51sort of mental health anxiety issues as
8:53related to teaching not that I listen to
8:57was it more along the lines of she was
8:59just not not happy in teaching because
9:00of the current environment in schools
9:03yes following that portion of the
9:05discussion did you ask her to give you
9:07um a statement about what happens on
9:08Monday January 27th I did does she then
9:12in in her answer is this where she's um
9:15asks you I'm going to need some help
9:16from you yes right your honor we're
9:18going to jump to 1 hour 32 minutes and
9:2147 seconds in play through one hour 46
9:24minutes and 45
9:27seconds so tell me about the next
9:29morning then so now you're at home
9:31Canon's at home right Elena's at school
9:34tell me what happens then right so this
9:37is where I need help from everybody yeah
9:40um and you can get help I've like I said
9:43I've had some high level informants that
9:45have told me some horrific things and
9:48we've had to relocate them we can get
9:49different
9:50names but to do that to kick that in
9:53motion we need to know the story we
9:55can't just say right oh someone some's
9:58got really important information
9:59all right well that's where I would need
10:02someone to help guide me through this
10:04because I want to help more than
10:09anything that's why I'm here because I'm
10:11representing I'm I'm representing Denver
10:13FBI and then I have the ability to pull
10:16resources from quano which is our
10:19Behavior Analysis unit everything comes
10:21out of there right it's called Ser which
10:23is our incident response grw so this was
10:27this was a big enough case that the
10:29super supervisor of the FBI asked me to
10:32come down from Denver you know and I get
10:34all my training out there so you you're
10:38not going to have better resources in
10:39this room right now and I'm not bragging
10:41right I've just been doing this stuff
10:43for a long time right so if if you tell
10:47me what
10:48happens and then you need protection we
10:51can do all that stuff so DEA doesn't
10:54have those capabilities ATF doesn't
10:57no de just investigates drugs and
11:01they're very good at it right that the
11:03FBI were now
11:05worldwide and we have offices bah to
11:09Russia to China to wherever so and we
11:13get a lot more funding because of When
11:16September 11 happened that changed
11:19everything for us we we we were the
11:22nation's number one law enforcement
11:23agency before then MH but they gave us
11:26so many more resources since then right
11:29and so I am specialized in missing
11:34kids um and unusual homicides including
11:38serial killings and whatever else so I
11:40didn't get in right away on your case
11:42but I did I have been working it for the
11:44past couple weeks I wish I could have
11:46talk to you yeah well I'm here now and
11:49whatever you tell me what I mean the
11:51worst thing I can do for people like you
11:54is if you have a story that requires
11:55your protection for the FBI it would not
11:58be good for me to run out and and say oh
11:59Laticia told me this and that's not how
12:02it works yeah if this can help us find
12:05Ganon we'll do whatever we
12:06can okay I'm not like I'm just I just
12:09need like protection for the family and
12:15and I swear to you okay well you can get
12:18that but we have to know the story
12:21first so how how am I supposed to get
12:24help talking to someone first before we
12:26talk to you because I'm willing to do
12:28that so here's your deal if if you need
12:32help and and if you want to go through
12:33the court process that's fine we leave
12:37and then you you work through the court
12:40process but then it just becomes the the
12:43whole focus of this letia right now
12:45you're the only one you're the last one
12:47you're the last adult with
12:49him you're the last adult we know about
12:52with him you have not told anybody
12:54anything else to lead us we have been
12:57trying to work with th to say what is
13:00she saying now yeah you know and the
13:02Quincy Brown thing and whatever else I
13:04was mad at him about all that but a a
13:07lot of it was keys to help you guys but
13:09it should have just been if I could have
13:13just re like reached out to someone to
13:15be like I'm I'm terrified
13:19for for myself and for my
13:22family than it would have been also what
13:26I can help you with can also help you
13:27with something else you might be
13:29to well what is that I'm just saying I
13:33well Laticia you've got to give me
13:35something here to work to work with if
13:37if you want to go through the court
13:38process like I said on here the last
13:40question if you want to stop at any time
13:43you are more than welcome to stop and
13:44say but it says it says you can have one
13:48present to talk to you yep and that will
13:53kick in the court process and then we're
13:54done which is fine and if that's what
13:57you want
13:59okay but the whole if you need
14:02protection and that sort of thing I
14:04can't get you there without you giving
14:05me
14:06something
14:07[Music]
14:09so
14:12here's I listened to all the calls
14:16without
14:18and I've seen the crime scene
14:21reports okay what happened in the
14:23bedroom was not Ganon slinging his blood
14:26on the wall
14:29well that that's totally like not even
14:31to do with anything that's why I'm so
14:34like upset about bedrooms and and and
14:37all those things because I understand
14:40you're an expert I know that but I'm
14:42telling you
14:44that's I just I'm going to need like
14:47protection that's that's it it's not me
14:50I'm not the person so but if you're not
14:53the person the the charges won't be
14:56different okay if you allowed someone
14:59else to come in and do the things to gon
15:01that we know happen to him you're just
15:03as guilty I didn't allow anyone and I
15:07don't know of anything like you're
15:09talking about to be happening again I do
15:12know that there's something I could tell
15:14you that can help you or help me help
15:17everyone but I I do need that help
15:21well so let me tell you where I am okay
15:26like I said I've been 23 years with the
15:28FBI I for the last 20 I've been working
15:30violent crime and I've worked some of
15:33the worst cases and it's kind of messed
15:34me up with bit to be honest right seeing
15:37what I've
15:38seen um and I worked 20 years of Bank
15:42Rockets So for I always thought that you
15:46were going to have I'm the FBI I'm the
15:49good guy bad people go rob banks and
15:52that's not how it is I've had to help
15:55arrest other FBI agents police officers
15:59people from the church school resource
16:02officers I mean it doesn't matter what
16:04you do mhm and on the other side some of
16:06the bank robbers one of them came out
16:09after serving a 10e sentence and we head
16:11it off just fine even though you know we
16:14were on opposite sides of the fence the
16:17thing that I have seen though throughout
16:20is when something very bad happens
16:24people think they can't recover from it
16:27and I do not think you are a bad person
16:29I'm that's why I'm here no I don't I've
16:32seen I've seen bad I know you tell
16:34people that to get them to help you I'm
16:36not I would not have this approach with
16:39you if I thought you were a bad person I
16:42think something bad happened and I think
16:45that what I've seen a lot it's whether
16:48it's you think that you can get out if
16:50you do this or this or this that's where
16:53you are now and you're hoping that one
16:55of these things can save
16:57you they're not going to be
16:59what do you mean what what are you
17:00talking about someone's not the way to
17:01save me there's no there was nobody else
17:04there okay we we've looked at the alarms
17:07we've looked at the Motions we've looked
17:08at the detectors the alarms were already
17:10covered up the alarms were already
17:13covered up
17:15yes okay but sir I'm telling you there
17:20what you have is not you and know you
17:23say you wouldn't sit here and say this
17:24to me if I wasn't whatever I'm telling
17:27you it is truth I would not and did not
17:31would not did not and with you guys
17:34having my phone I would have thought
17:38that you would have had some of the apps
17:41looked
17:41into now I would have thought but
17:44sometimes when I talked to Albert you
17:46might have listened to them all or
17:47whatever it could have been some help
17:49and indication on the apps I really did
17:53because I couldn't come at you and just
17:54tell you if I you say there's some
17:58somebody not
18:00involved I could walk you through it and
18:02prove it to you and you guys have
18:04already had this predetermination I
18:06don't mean you I have this first time I
18:08spoke to you you guys have already had
18:10this predetermination that's what's
18:11going to
18:12happen it's already in your mindset yeah
18:15because we have no other evidence
18:17pointing us
18:18elsewhere so if there was a shred of
18:21evidence Leticia that pointed us to some
18:23other person we would be all over it as
18:26soon as Quincy Brown came out of your
18:28mouth it doesn't take long so you know
18:32100% he's in Mexico right now yes we do
18:35now
18:38right because we did get our Le we have
18:41what's called a legal atache MH
18:46okay that's where that alone and I get
18:50that you're saying you have someone who
18:51looks into that and knows that that's
18:54where I know in my heart that I can't
18:57trust to get help that
18:59very you're saying Quincy Brown's not
19:02mexo that's that's not what I'm saying
19:04but you would have said another word
19:06like something in between that that
19:08would have gave that off like you
19:11wouldn't have said he's just in Mexico
19:12and he didn't do anything you would have
19:14said oh did he come back here for a
19:16reason you you wouldn't have said any
19:18that you would have known some other
19:20things too or maybe you have and you
19:21just can't tell me those things and
19:23that's
19:24okay
19:27but we don't in a case like this so tips
19:31will come in MH you know the public will
19:34call in and then of course you and Al
19:36are primary interest because you're the
19:38parents of the missing kid and most 90%
19:41of the time when a kid goes missing it
19:43has to do with one of the
19:44parents that's it that we we look we
19:47work on probabilities okay so and
19:50especially with you then you're there
19:53you say he went to a neighbor's house
19:55that's that's the very first thing you
19:57say and then there's no thought that
20:00somebody took him you said there's no
20:03thought there's no thought for law
20:05enforcement but you don't you're not
20:08understanding what happened leading up
20:10to the days before nothing to do with
20:12gon nothing to do with me okay in terms
20:15of me and gon okay I love
20:18Ganon with all my heart and so you can
20:21sit here and say 90% parents this this
20:25this okay I'm not saying you don't love
20:27them I I love I'm saying that even I
20:30have had times when my son rolled the
20:32basketball underneath that I wanted to
20:33turn around and do something and then I
20:36would have regretted it later but you're
20:38saying what you're saying to me is what
20:40you you think is that I hurt Canon I and
20:44I don't think it was intentional okay
20:46but I didn't hurt Ganon okay and I
20:48didn't either intentional or not
20:50intentional hurt ganet I did not that's
20:54just not what happened okay and I had
20:57this conversation with you just to see
21:00for a second if I could get help from
21:03you which you can but you how can you
21:05expect me to help you the ship you're
21:07not going to tell me what happened you
21:09can't go just let me tell you you can
21:12unlock the entire resources of the FBI
21:15right now I've told you that but then
21:17you say that you're not willing to do it
21:19whether you don't trust me or you think
21:21that there's these but she already told
21:23me someone wasn't there based on an
21:26alarm that's from what we can see yes
21:29movement in the basement movement
21:31upstairs but you've already told me that
21:33based on that okay but what you're not
21:36realizing is there's two sensors on that
21:38home okay two two that can easily be
21:42manipulated easily okay and if you even
21:45knew anything about prior you would be
21:49thinking a lot differently now but see
21:51that's why I can't talk to you about
21:54these things because you already have
21:56predetermined what you think it doesn't
21:57matter what I predeter but you said
21:59intentionally unintentionally and that's
22:01not the case I'm not saying I'm right
22:03100% of the time it doesn't you need to
22:06just disregard whatever I think or
22:09really whatever anybody else thinks if
22:12you have a truth and if you have
22:14something that will help us finding
22:16really to H with me and everybody else
22:18and what we think you should just cast
22:21that aside all we all I can follow is
22:24the facts of the cases they're told to
22:26me and so for me to go somewhere else
22:29besides the facts I have to then go back
22:31to the facts to check it so when I say
22:33something I'm talk to you in private but
22:35you can't tell Albert about anything
22:38that led up to it or anyone else Albert
22:41will not I will I understand that but I
22:44will but I need your help and I need to
22:46know that you tell me there's resources
22:49you tell me whatever okay I know you're
22:51saying you got whatever this and that
22:54and all that but I I really am going to
22:58need help
22:59like a
23:01lot swear to
23:04you don't base it on some of a l reports
23:07because they can easily manipulate it
23:08we're not just I know I'm saying when
23:10you're saying no one else was there so
23:14when you say that don't base it on that
23:16please I'm begging you cuz that was not
23:21even remotely but not even
23:24it not even
23:32Mr Gru I just remind you that you're
23:33still under
23:37oath at the beginning of that portion of
23:39the interview Mr grusing um you go
23:42through a description of if you allowed
23:44somebody else to come into the house and
23:45do bad things to Ganon then you're just
23:47as guilty why were you going down that
23:50path and explaining that to
23:52her um well it had to do with the
23:56numerous stories that she had told us
23:58and over the phone and just whatever
24:01complicit or she was going to make with
24:04me I was wanting to move more directly
24:07towards her
24:09involvement so just saying that if she
24:12was going to introduce yet another
24:13person um like the last one that she
24:16introduced was the pregnant lady and it
24:18didn't really have any legs to stand on
24:21we weren't I didn't want her to go down
24:22that path again so was was that you
24:25trying to encourage her to talk about
24:26her actions as opposed to pointing it
24:28out to different people yes okay what
24:31about the discussion you had where
24:33you're talking about the good guys the
24:34bad guys Dynamic and that whole thing
24:37arresting bank robbers what was that
24:38purpose of that uh to tell Leticia
24:42basically that she was a good person and
24:44that good people can do bad
24:48things in that portion of the interview
24:51she says um she couldn't just come at
24:52you and tell you what had happened um
24:56what was your take from from that
24:58particular point of the
25:00interview well I don't I don't know if
25:02this is the same thing you're talking
25:03about but she told me that she had keys
25:06or some type of keys she was trying to
25:08give us but that she couldn't tell us
25:10directly what happened and to me that
25:12meant that she had been giving us hence
25:15along U during the different phone calls
25:17through Al because she had already told
25:19me that she knew that I and others were
25:21listening that's exactly what I was
25:23talking about where she's um telling you
25:25basically that I've been trying to give
25:27hints throughout this whole thing
25:29um were there in fact some hints in her
25:33various statements absolutely can you
25:35give us examples of that
25:38please well she mentioned that uh Ganon
25:41was not in Colorado and either the the
25:44phone call on February 19th or 21st I
25:46think it was the 19th and then she told
25:49Al that he's not in the US and we later
25:52learned that was close to being true uh
25:55she also as we've spoken of numerous
25:57times described the injuries and she was
26:01even describing uh time periods that we
26:04were interested in like the the night
26:06before the two trips to Costco and what
26:09had happened in between those two trips
26:11and then when she would come home what
26:13happened after U she arrived back at the
26:16house and yeah so if when you compile
26:20them all together she was describing a
26:22lot of what had happened uh separately
26:24through the investigation being done by
26:26El Paso County Sheriff's Office and and
26:28when you talk about that it was almost
26:30true that Ganon wasn't in United States
26:33are you referring to where Ganon was
26:34later found uh on the essentially Banks
26:37of a river that flows into the Gulf of
26:39Mexico yes okay down in
26:42Florida why did you tell her um that you
26:45don't think it was intentional what and
26:47and the way you're implying it in that
26:48statement is you don't think what she
26:50did to gain and was intentional why' you
26:52say
26:53that well in her first statement that I
26:56was present for with Al on the 13th
26:59February she said that Ganon ganon's
27:02first injury in her timeline was that he
27:04cut his foot on
27:05Saturday and then she went on to other
27:08things that had happened and U in my
27:12experience with domestic violence uh I
27:15had seen that an accident might precede
27:17something intentional and I was giving
27:19her the opportunity to say that if she
27:21wanted to was that a essentially you
27:24building it out for her to U feel better
27:27about telling you what actually happened
27:29again yes and still just trying to find
27:33any factual information from her on
27:36injuries to Ganon when they might have
27:37occurred and it's much easier to talk
27:39about an accident than something
27:41intentional okay um the next section um
27:45that I want to talk about is right after
27:47this uh do you remember her talking
27:48about she reached out to people to go
27:50places yes um let's go ahead and play
27:53that it's at uh time stamps 14645
27:58through
28:0014830 so going from directly from here
28:03to
28:0614830 so you care about gon I care about
28:09Ganon I have reached out every day
28:12offering for people to go with me
28:13certain places to get to get even
28:16insight to see I I've every day asked
28:19hey can you go do this can can someone
28:21meet me here so you've asked someone to
28:23go look for him right like i' I reached
28:26out and I asked Albert I said hey can
28:27you meet me let me tell you about this
28:29and let's go to this location to look
28:32I've asked all these what location do
28:33you think he's at now k no I'm I'm just
28:36saying like in general no but I'm asking
28:38you in general where do you think he is
28:40right now I can I don't know exactly I
28:45don't know but where where do you know
28:47him to last I am 99% confident Danon his
28:52alive okay Leti where do you know him to
28:55last be
28:59I want to help sir but I I'm in a
29:02room and you've already talking about
29:04all this and your cours and I'm it's me
29:08against everybody else so here's the
29:10deal once this thing goes through the
29:12cours you talk about that you're the
29:15only one to be with him you think you're
29:17going to be able to tell a story a story
29:21it it might be a true story gosh sir but
29:25listen I've listened to a lot of your
29:27stories and I don't know what else to
29:28tell to yeah okay that's because I was
29:30mad at him had nothing I already knew
29:32but I've seen what you told the news
29:33reporter I've seen what I've listened to
29:35what you told El Paso about about the
29:37sex assault that happened in the house I
29:39already knew that you guys were
29:41listening to him so I said that which I
29:44was angry but but what I think I can
29:46offer you today is some help
29:52okay so in in the beginning of that
29:55portion Mr gring she's talking about uh
29:57she's been been trying to reach out to
29:58get people to go places do you know of
30:01any effort she made to reach out to give
30:03information factual information that
30:05could be acted on I
30:11don't so in this
30:14uh basically in in this uh in this
30:17interview do you also go through a
30:18portion where you're describing that
30:20you're looking at her stories and
30:22they're just not making sense correct
30:24I'm going to jump to 1 hour 51 minutes
30:27and 40 seconds and play 1 hour 56
30:29through 1 hour
30:355624 and so I I'm looking at your
30:38story uh the ones that you've told the
30:41AL the ones that you've said in the
30:42media of hitting your head when you hit
30:45your head you didn't see what
30:47happened and then when someone else
30:51takes scanon or when he's riding a bike
30:53and he hits his head and stuff like that
30:55riding a bike I was just I just told you
30:58was saying that to Albert because I was
30:59upset that he wasn't listening to me
31:01that I did not hurt gon I don't think
31:04you intended to hurt gon at all sir
31:06there's no no I'm not saying you did or
31:09he hurt himself something bad happened
31:11in his room I have you seen that sir
31:16you've helped clean it off the wall we
31:18know that this here what what you're
31:20talking about is
31:22completely completely irrelevant about
31:25the whole thinking bad
31:28tell me about if if it's irrelevant
31:30Leticia help me because there's a big
31:32blood School in the corner there's spray
31:34on the wall because if I tell you
31:37anything about any of that all you're
31:39going to say to me
31:41is hey da if you didn't do it no I will
31:45be your Advocate cuz why do we know each
31:48other no but I why would I care if you
31:52didn't do it and it helps me find Ganon
31:55I didn't do it okay well then help me
31:57find out who did who did what that toan
32:00in his room don't wat toan in his room
32:03there's a pool of blood in the corner
32:05okay that's gon's blood okay so you're
32:09saying now this is this is where I have
32:11a hard time knowing what it is you're
32:13like okay trust you're not all right
32:15you're saying there's a pool of blood
32:18Albert said saucer size blood because
32:20I'm sure you had him say all this CU I'm
32:21sure you were there or
32:23whatever okay in his room and you said
32:26something about what' you say
32:28on the wall
32:30Okay then if that's your your whatever
32:34your expert advice or whatever more
32:37blood okay
32:39then where where do you think the I had
32:45any involvement with ganet and where did
32:48he go that's where people that's where
32:51it has to click at some point that and
32:55and that's what I listen to you do that
32:57to Al to where you're making him guess
33:00what happened to K I don't want him to
33:02guess well no well you're you're asking
33:05me to guess no no no I was asking a
33:07question sir I wasn't trying to get you
33:08to guess I was just saying in general
33:09asking a question I want help with
33:14people understanding I tried to give any
33:17insight help Clues anything but I can't
33:21because they know my
33:24daughter everyone my family my mom
33:28everyone and you can think that but
33:31right now Leticia I mean you can go down
33:34that road but it's not going to save you
33:35in court because you're the last adult
33:38with him and nobody else just let me let
33:40me try to protect you I'm not trying to
33:42hurt you here this is actually
33:45protecting you if you don't tell us
33:48where to go
33:49investigate then nobody's going to
33:51investigate for you you're the last
33:53adult with him you told a lot of lies
33:56about all these injuries
33:58not to I didn't s lies to you or to any
34:00police
34:01officer did a sex assault happen in the
34:04house I didn't s any lies to you or a
34:06police officer okay so you don't have we
34:11don't have anybody to chase though if we
34:12don't chase you I do you understand but
34:16if you chase me okay and you do this to
34:20me people are protected because you guys
34:23aren't going to protect everybody else
34:25people are protected okay
34:28we can protect people we can protect you
34:31family if this is involved now I've
34:33worked South American death groups I've
34:35worked gangsters I've worked organized
34:38crime mhm none of that stuff Rings true
34:40with what happened
34:42here I mean how how is how is a very
34:45organized gang going to come into a
34:47house in Colorado Springs who said it a
34:50house why does it have to be in the
34:51house see that's where that's where he
34:53last
34:54was are you going to make me guess where
34:56he was then no I'm I'm telling you
35:00you're not going to listen to me see you
35:02already just said the last was in the
35:04house let see you're again you're going
35:06back to you care what I think you
35:08shouldn't care what I think I do care
35:09what you think you want know why because
35:12I care about my how people think of me
35:16because I am not that kind of person
35:18that's why and if you can point me to a
35:20different person then I can help you I
35:23gave hints before so it's stopped at
35:2515626
35:31when when the discussion about the
35:32riding the bike and Quincy Brown came up
35:34um she stopped you and and said uh
35:38basically she gives a description of she
35:39was just saying that to Al you remember
35:41that portion yes was that her basically
35:44admitting that what she had told in that
35:46particular story that Quincy Brown that
35:47whole thing was not true
35:52correct what about the uh portion of the
35:55discussion where um you point point out
35:58that are you trying to make Al guess are
35:59you trying to make me guess what was
36:01your um intent of of making that
36:04distinction there and what were you're
36:05trying to get to well I asked her a
36:08question about the blood in the bedroom
36:10trying to get her to explain that to me
36:12and instead she posed the question to me
36:14that if she was responsible where was
36:17Ganon it's an open-ended question that
36:19only she knew and as I told Leticia i'
36:24had seen her do this to Al well I heard
36:26her do it to Al while we were in the
36:28room multiple times when it's a a direct
36:31question we need an answer or I needed
36:33one for the blood and instead she's
36:35asking me where Ganon is and she knows
36:37that I don't know the answer um did it
36:40appear um from your perspective that
36:42that was intentionally trying to not
36:44give you information as to what happened
36:45in the room or to Ganon yes
36:51both did you confront her with uh web
36:54searches um that were done on her phone
36:56yes to jump to that portion of the
36:58interview and this is um 1 hour 56
37:02minutes and 52 seconds through 2 hours
37:05and 10
37:07seconds cuz you know in here I even have
37:10what you entered in your
37:11phone the stuff that you've entered and
37:14[Music]
37:15deleted like um blood is spurting from
37:19an arterial bleed direct pressure not
37:21controlling do what I didn't look this
37:24up it's from your phone blood is what
37:27spting from an arterial
37:29bleed no somebody did from your phone I
37:33don't like my stepson no I don't like my
37:36stepson should I get a
37:38divorce I'll stock cheating I'll stock
37:42Instagram I'll stock cheating in
37:44Colorado Springs catch out stock
37:47cheating how to get blood out of sheets
37:50out of sheets mm I want immun Oh The
37:53Blood Out the blood out of sheets was
37:55because we always had like every always
37:57nose beds if I ever looked the blood out
37:59of sheets it was nose
38:01bed I didn't never look up anything
38:03about an artery or something unless it
38:05went from something else it's on your
38:07phone and I never looked up anything
38:08about my steps on orless someone else
38:10did it the the reason I brought up gangs
38:13is you you uh looked up I want immunity
38:15because it was Gang
38:18Related and this sounds like find me a
38:21new husband find me a rich guy who wants
38:24to take care of his kids the the new
38:27husband is just because Albert already
38:29knew that was about the lady Debbie
38:31Cheryl who had a who wanted to find a
38:34new husband after 35 or something he
38:35picked to me about Amazon like a lot of
38:37these can have nothing to do with this
38:39it doesn't I get it um and spray can I
38:44spray paint wood spray paint wood well
38:47we always wor wood yeah I'm doing all
38:50the work for my step kids and their mom
38:52doesn't help oh that bothered me yes
38:54yeah I don't blame oh yes cuz I wanted
38:56them to be mine
38:58like like to be their child hit and run
39:01you Googled a lot on Leticia and traffic
39:04accident hit and run I didn't hate
39:06anybody no what was that what what date
39:11was it it I don't have a date on these I
39:13just I was downloading stuff CU I was
39:15coming on the plane yeah no I don't my
39:18husband wants a divorce my husband wants
39:20a baby but I want an
39:24abortion one day some people will wish
39:26they treated you differently which I get
39:28that parenting should be four people not
39:32one quotes a suicidal person might
39:36say I mean these make me very sad when I
39:38read them because I can see you're doing
39:40all the work at home by yourself which I
39:43wanted to be there like I wanted to
39:45totally have the kids as my children
39:49that's the point you're not getting like
39:52I wanted those kids to be saying to me
39:55that I'm their mom yeah like I'm the
39:57person who does cares for them loves
40:01them
40:02everything so you can think that what
40:05about what do you do if you suspect a
40:06person swallow poison dides somebody
40:09actually swallow poison poison I don't
40:11know I always click things and read them
40:14no oneall did somebody swallow it no one
40:16swallowed any poison okay you will never
40:20forgive me and treat me like a princess
40:22you'll never know when it's too late oh
40:24yeah I mean I always searched for things
40:26when Albert was gone when
40:28is so in that particular portion um you
40:31mentioned the immunity was there a
40:33particular phone calls um during the
40:35consensual recorded phone calls process
40:37where she was also saying the same thing
40:38to Al in those phone calls yes there was
40:41it was one of the earlier phone calls I
40:43was involved in did you ask Kurt to
40:45describe what injuries Ganon suffered a
40:47little bit later after this yes going I
40:50jump to time stamp 2 hours and 50
40:55seconds and play through two hours8
40:58minutes and 55 seconds for everything so
41:01if you're not willing to go with who
41:03took again can you at least tell me what
41:06injuries he suffered the true ones as
41:09far as the cut foot was that a legit
41:11injury yes and where did that happen so
41:15he was outside in the garage and when he
41:18was outside in the garage he was running
41:20to go help me take the tra I take the
41:22trash out come back and help me get
41:24stuff out the car and then he stepped on
41:26something which I left the blood
41:28there like I left it like cuz Albert
41:31said don't touch that fine wood or
41:34African wood whatever kind of wood it
41:36was what what did the piece of wood look
41:37like it's just I don't know like a board
41:41okay and it's still there in the garage
41:44I I had to drive over them all the time
41:47so like I always had to drive over the
41:50pieces of wood right but you didn't take
41:51that out of the garage it's too big you
41:53couldn't have fit it in anything you
41:54couldn't have fit the pieces the long
41:57boards that were in the garage you could
41:59not fit I left the okay so there was the
42:02piece of board that I threw in the back
42:03of Troke and then there was the two long
42:07boards that were sitting there so they
42:09so the board that was about like this
42:11size and the board that was the
42:13Longboards that were sitting here I left
42:16the longboards because I don't those
42:18that was supposed to be the fancy wood
42:20and I didn't want to Rin it by trying to
42:21get the blood off of it the other piece
42:23of wood was the wood that I threw in the
42:26back of our truck and what was that one
42:29it was there was a bunch of pieces that
42:30were laying around that from that night
42:33from us running through there was like
42:35little pieces there was a piece about
42:37this size maybe a couple pieces but that
42:41you threw it in the back of the
42:43truck that that bigger piece well you
42:46say bigger like this it wasn't that big
42:47okay yeah it was um cheap wood like I
42:51knew it was not the wood that he would
42:52be freaking out over so from Sunday
42:56that's
42:57he did hurt his foot from Sunday and how
43:00badly was it for you it wasn't I say
43:03Sunday Saturday I'm sorry from Saturday
43:05Albert had just left like to drive to
43:08the airport it wasn't even he wasn't
43:10even gone long he had just left to drive
43:13to the
43:14airport okay so did it require a
43:17Band-Aid or Gana when he whenever he
43:21always does something he tries to be
43:23like he's not like laying where he like
43:25oh I need a bandaid oh whatever G would
43:27literally walk around with toilet paper
43:28in the middle of his toe and it would
43:30have blood or whatever and just run
43:32everywhere into his room or whatever so
43:34what did he do on this occasion we we
43:36literally took the paper towel that's
43:38why I just told you about the toe and
43:40put in between so it was in between his
43:42toes is where the inj no he it was like
43:44wrapped here okay we had it wrapped and
43:47I don't remember forget bandaid to be
43:49honest this this just what stand in so
43:52that doesn't sound like a big injury
43:54well it wasn't I mean he it was blood
43:56there was a big injury
43:57um I left it on the wood because I said
44:00I'm not going to clean his fine African
44:03wood what did it look like on the wood
44:05drops streaks well what I did originally
44:08was I was trying to take water to do it
44:11but then I realized if I put cleaner
44:13then that wouldn't do anything but cause
44:15the wood to damage cuz Albert always
44:17wanted to build things with all this
44:19wood that we bought and if I use those
44:22pieces of wood and all that stuff then
44:25you know did you ever use that shop back
44:27to clean up anything out there no I
44:30never used the shop back the shop back
44:32was never I couldn't even like move
44:34anything with the shop anything that
44:36would have been used with a shop back
44:37would have been Albert other than the
44:39times that we brought it would have been
44:41weeks ago and we could did spring
44:43cleaning or fall cleaning around the
44:45house in the corners and that type of
44:47thing so that would have been the shock
44:49back I never there was nothing I ever
44:51did and vacuumed up something with a
44:53shop bag that's helps me I just ask like
44:56any of that
44:57right there there there was none of that
44:59ever happened
45:01so the burns on the arms weren't that
45:03bad the the cut on the toe or the bottom
45:06of the fo wasn't that so we still were
45:07able to go hiking he was he was able to
45:10still go hiking it was bleeding on the
45:14board but not after that not all over
45:17the house that sort of thing well he had
45:19the piece of paper and went down to his
45:21room yeah like wrapped around the foot
45:23so I mean if anything there was it could
45:25have been drops of blood or something
45:27no what about the wound of the head that
45:29you talked to Al about so Albert was
45:32like trying to get me to say whatever
45:34cuz I'm sure you guys are have him do
45:35that and I knew that's what he was doing
45:37so Albert was trying to get me to say
45:39that like talk about talk to him about
45:41you know like wounds or or you know
45:43whatever so I threw off some stories to
45:45Albert because he was making me so upset
45:48just
45:50like everyone not understanding
45:53that there's an intervention solution
45:56here and there's there's a there's
45:58someone intervening in this and that's
46:01where people didn't understand or want
46:02to say anything so I just started
46:03rambling stuff to Albert and I even said
46:06to you guys hey I know you're listen me
46:08you know and it was just
46:11to to be whatever but do you know what
46:13that sounds like though to a dad who's
46:15missing his kid and then you say and a
46:18Grievious head wound happened to where
46:20it was blood running down his face and
46:23that sort of thing and it's you know had
46:25to bandage it up and oh I don't remember
46:27saying anything about bandaging up I
46:29think you said Quincy Brown tried to
46:31bandage you up oh cuz he was they could
46:32be mad about something yeah I say I
46:34don't remember me and I did that
46:36but so he did suffer a head wound though
46:40a head wound yes head or neck okay and
46:43that is what caused the blood there and
46:46so if even if you choose not to tell us
46:49where Ganon is today because you're too
46:51nervous or whatever else we would like
46:53to know where that was on him so if we
46:56find him on her own if you given me the
46:58clues to go find him that sort of thing
47:01where was that wound genon is alive he's
47:04alive fine but where was that wound was
47:06it his neck or his head I I don't think
47:09about a neck or head well you had to
47:11clean up the wall you want to that was
47:13not that that is not even from what what
47:16you're talking about there had nothing
47:18to do with anything from Saturday Sunday
47:23and whatever that had nothing to do with
47:25any of it how could it not did not a lot
47:27of blood it did not you're going to have
47:29to explain that sir it did not well just
47:32tell me how it did not I promise you but
47:35you're not going to tell me how so where
47:37we can help you with this you're not
47:38going to help me though how could I not
47:40help you how are you going to get up
47:42letia on the
47:44stand after telling all these stories
47:46which we're going to talk ask you about
47:49and then say I can explain all that and
47:52it's some party that I never told law
47:54enforcement to go chase if G is alive we
47:57have an 11-year-old kid somewhere being
48:01held against his will and you're not
48:03telling us you might as well have done
48:05this yourself that's why I'm saying let
48:08me hope you can all right
48:10[Music]
48:18there oops
48:32I'm not fill it out I'll just put this
49:02so I've paused it at um two hours 8
49:04minutes and 55
49:07seconds what did she write down in your
49:10notebook I just remembered the first
49:12part that the head wound was on
49:15Saturday you remember it saying uh and
49:18had nothing to do with this words to
49:20that effect
49:23yes what was your take on that that in
49:26instead of saying it on the camera she
49:28wanted to write it down um in your
49:31notebook well whether it's by now
49:35whether it's the the argument that she
49:36didn't want to talk about the the
49:38burns and even calling Gan Ganon in as
49:43absent you know I I wasn't pushing her I
49:45would give her the the opportunity to
49:47talk and then she would not talk so I
49:49would move on and now that we're to the
49:53blood and what happened in the room I
49:55think it was too difficult for her to
49:57say it out loud with the head
50:01wound when um she's going over uh the
50:04wound to the head and and then she
50:06actually says um she just started
50:09throwing out stories because Al was
50:11making me mad you remember that portion
50:16um what were your thoughts on on that
50:18particular part of the interview well
50:20that was consistent with what she was
50:22telling Al on the phone
50:24calls and and Al would continue to push
50:27her like we need to find Ganon and then
50:29she would say what about our
50:31relationship so she would move from
50:34finding out what happened again to her
50:36feelings and that's what she was doing
50:38here again is this also an example of
50:41her blaming others for her behavior
50:46yes um did you ask her about uh blood
50:48being found in the back of her
50:50Volkswagen Tiguan yes I did okay we're
50:53going to play that P portion next and
50:54judge just as I'm watching the time is
50:56there a time that you want me to shoot
50:57for for a break 310 okay like I'll just
51:01watch the clock on that all right this
51:03next section um picks up from here and
51:05goes through two hours 10 minutes and 57
51:09[Music]
51:13seconds only
51:16we we open the car up in the car we were
51:19sitting there to do there's nothing to
51:22do with it too much to be uhuh no that
51:26that no no no no no sir that is
51:28absolutely not true that was where we
51:31were sitting on the back of the car when
51:34we were unloading the stuff sitting on
51:36the back of the car there's no uhuh no
51:39sir's plenty
51:41inage there was nothing the garage there
51:44was plenty of time everybody worked in
51:46the garage had nothing to do gon's not
51:49working on the garage anding all over
51:52place there was nothing about leading
51:54all over the place in the garage do with
51:57anything I'm telling
51:58you what you're asking me is completely
52:02totally different than anything has do
52:05you know what this looks say you're
52:06telling me the truth again please don't
52:08think please don't care what I think say
52:12you're telling me the truth right now
52:14that Saturday had nothing to do with him
52:17disappearing and being gone for over a
52:19month do do you know what that looks
52:21like for you it looks like I am in the
52:24middle of situ situation
52:28but you're not willing to tell me how to
52:30help
52:32you so now you're saying that gon had a
52:35really bad head wound on
52:37Saturday I
52:41didn't no no no no that's not what I'm
52:43saying I'm saying what you're talking
52:45about completely
52:48different than what you're saying yeah
52:51but this doesn't look any better for you
52:53because now you haven't told Al that he
52:55has a headwind you haven't called the
52:59hospital
53:01that you have to you don't have to do
53:04anything not what it was like
53:06sir nothing to do with me not what it
53:09was
53:11like so in that particular portion um
53:14where you're asking about the blood on
53:17the
53:18Tiguan um were you had you been made
53:21aware of uh when she showed up to the El
53:23Paso County Sheriff's Office for an
53:25interview and the condition of her car
53:27yes what information did you know about
53:29that that the car had been
53:36washed did you uh ask her if someone
53:39else injured Ganon during this interview
53:41okay we're going to jump to that portion
53:44it picks up here and goes through two
53:45hours and 20 minutes and 06 seconds did
53:48someone else injure him on
53:51Saturday just that's an easy question
53:54you're not even having to tell me a name
53:55did someone else him
53:59I wanted to meet
54:02friends cuz I didn't have friends okay
54:06so I wanted to meet friend
54:10okay Albert ever tell you about any of
54:12these apps you had me to
54:14go see that's where this is going to be
54:18whatever cuz you're going to take you're
54:20not you're not going to take my my
54:22version and my side of Whata let me stop
54:25you if you help us I will take whatever
54:28version you tell me and I will actually
54:31prove
54:32it that's all I do is I don't chase I am
54:36wrong most of the time do you have a way
54:38to pull up apps do you have a way to
54:40pull up the stuff on apps do you have
54:42that we can do that while you're here
54:44yes okay well know I'm saying you said
54:46you have this yes we have ways to pull
54:49up apps okay what
54:55up how do you have ways to pull Taps we
54:58have technal people I'm not a tech
55:00person but we have plenty of tech people
55:02that are super smart to do
55:04it if you tell me what to do we can do
55:07that while we're talking take a break
55:09you can go to the restroom whatever else
55:11we can solve this thing right
55:14now why come I just can't talk to you
55:17without a bunch of people watching me
55:18then we can talk right now yeah but come
55:20on there's people here yeah what what do
55:23you want me you tell me what you want to
55:24do and I will have I want to talk to you
55:28to tell you about leading up to anything
55:31I want to talk to you because I want you
55:33to find in and I believe in all my heart
55:36you will help me not lie to me I will
55:38help you not try to say oh you're
55:40telling the story and throw me
55:43somewhere okay so is he alive I let me
55:46finish this and I'm ask you a question I
55:48understand what you're saying about
55:49Federal versus law local whatever okay
55:53so the first that the first thing I'm
55:55going to want to talk to you is that I
55:57don't want anything said before held
56:00against me if I provide you with 100%
56:03the truth to help
56:05you that'll work this is the first time
56:08we're talking and it's for a reason you
56:09haven't talked to the feds yet right so
56:12if I can hit I don't want to be sitting
56:15here with all these people watching
56:17because I want you to listen at exactly
56:21what happened and go through
56:24there okay okay
56:27and that's not I know you're trained to
56:29do this and interrogate people and all
56:32this I want nothing more nothing more
56:36than forgetting to be okay that's all I
56:38want I promise you that's all I want
56:42okay that's
56:44it and I will
56:47take whatever resources whatever help
56:50you want me to go do if even if it means
56:52take myself in the middle of somewhere
56:54where someone wants me to go to get him
56:58to make sure he's okay I would do
57:00it because I love Ganon and I love my
57:04family and I will the ground that
57:06everybody walks on Albert Harley Lena
57:09ganet that is my family
57:13okay I I know in the end you might think
57:16you got whatever by this and forensics
57:19and and whatever and I'm not arguing any
57:22of that very smart to know that you're a
57:24smart man you're not stupid
57:26but I need the help the resources to not
57:31be attacked anymore to know that
57:36something on stupid app was a sealing
57:38theate
57:40okay so you brought someone in so I I'm
57:43not I I would talk to you I know I get
57:48it
57:51so I'm representing law enforcement from
57:55Colorado M okay and if you tell me
57:59something even though you know we
58:00started a recording now and whatever
58:02else and if you say we won't talk unless
58:04we turn off the
58:05recording that can happen but I'm going
58:08to pull in all those resources no I want
58:10you to pull in resources I'm not denying
58:12you to say pull in of resources I'm
58:15looking at you from mother to a father I
58:19have been scared because I don't know
58:21what's going to happen not with because
58:24I did something I wouldn't have told
58:26told you that there was people random
58:28people intervention or all these things
58:31if there wouldn't have been okay I
58:33wouldn't have done that I wouldn't have
58:35done that could have easily just been
58:38like hey if if there was truly what you
58:42guys have thought about I don't think
58:44you intentionally done it there was this
58:45accident Common Sense well enough to
58:48know pick up the phone and say an
58:51accident happened I'm not stupid okay
58:54might be freaking out because I don't
58:57know how to get this help but I'm not
58:59stupid okay and that's looking you dead
59:01in the eye to tell you I did not hurt
59:04gon at all okay swear to you so if
59:09you're willing to give me opportunity to
59:12talk to you I don't want to be like
59:14watched by people I don't want to be oh
59:16whatever this is a separate recorder
59:18this is mine right and so does the Mur
59:21be CH yeah they do
59:24right right
59:27but I need the help you'll get the help
59:29okay all we're focusing on is finding a
59:32kid okay and that's what I want I don't
59:34want to look at like you look at me like
59:36I'm just this bad person who doesn't
59:38want to find our
59:40child that's not it I just don't when
59:42it's when it came at me as an attack
59:45okay because that's what originally
59:47happened okay and I get it they have to
59:49do their job because guess what they're
59:52probably parents too right so they have
59:54to do their job right okay I get that
59:57part okay you can ask me about any of
1:00:00these
1:00:01whatever whatever I'm sure it was
1:00:03something I saw somewhere and I don't
1:00:05never looked up anything about some
1:00:06stepchild I've looked up how I haven't
1:00:08got help and how I wanted help and how I
1:00:10wanted to be the person that they always
1:00:14were well I didn't even want him to go
1:00:16home I didn't even want him to have to
1:00:18go to their mother at all at all because
1:00:22I had to see the pain and Agony Al my
1:00:25three
1:00:26worry so you're going to take my
1:00:29character based upon no whatever that's
1:00:32just part listen when when a kid goes
1:00:35missing we don't only look at right the
1:00:38person we look at the entire
1:00:40neighborhood we go through people's
1:00:41closets we go everybody's lives has
1:00:43turned upside down and I'll tell you
1:00:45right now since if any of this is since
1:00:48then of course I've looked at what
1:00:50people said if people said something
1:00:51about the FBI I go FBI you worry too
1:00:55much about what we say if you will get
1:00:56us there we can protect you okay so then
1:01:00I talk to you and I don't talk to M
1:01:02Beach police department and all these
1:01:04other people I talk to you and I explain
1:01:08to
1:01:08you okay because the you already saying
1:01:12you are charging me with something it's
1:01:14already been charged that's what I'm
1:01:16saying you're already saying that okay
1:01:19so how do I know that when I get you
1:01:22when I give you this here information
1:01:24but that's that's what this record in
1:01:26does it protects you because I've
1:01:27already told you we will do
1:01:30this we used to not record things but we
1:01:33do now and the only people sitting in
1:01:36there is the district attorney and some
1:01:38of the El Paso people Myrtle Beach has
1:01:40nothing to do with this they helped us
1:01:42find you right so they have to be
1:01:44involved in this I understand there
1:01:46nothing against Myrtle Beach Myrtle
1:01:47Beach is not in on
1:01:50this okay well if someone else took gon
1:01:54can find here and I just I don't like
1:01:56that I want to be able to have emotional
1:01:58raw
1:01:59conversation let's do it now I can't I
1:02:02mean we can't go anywhere where do you
1:02:04want to go I cuz I know people are
1:02:06sitting nobody's sitting there okay
1:02:08someone's watching from there they are
1:02:10in the other room it's the district
1:02:11attorney do you want me to tell them
1:02:12they can't watch no I want to talk to
1:02:14someone in a raw real conversation so
1:02:18you can see truly in my heart the
1:02:22situation that's what I want that's what
1:02:25this is no it's not
1:02:27sir but how can I make is it the
1:02:29district attorney from Colorado yes yeah
1:02:32see come on I can ask them to leave the
1:02:34room no it's not about leaving the room
1:02:37it's about I'm asking for instead of
1:02:40going through all you know this whatever
1:02:43sitting here wasting our time or
1:02:45whatever I'm asking just to talk to you
1:02:48because I'm taking your word that you're
1:02:50going to help me and you're going to
1:02:52provide the resources from wherever you
1:02:54said you have them before I do
1:02:58so at in this portion of the uh
1:03:02interview starts out with you asking her
1:03:04about did somebody else injur genon and
1:03:07then she went on the discussion about
1:03:10apps do you remember that portion yes
1:03:12and you asked her to give the name of
1:03:14the app and then it led to that long
1:03:16tangent was that another distraction
1:03:19attempt away from potentially things
1:03:21that may help misdirection
1:03:23yes did you ask her about trips uh that
1:03:26she may have made to Palmer Lake area so
1:03:28Northern El Paso County I did so we're
1:03:31going to watch that next and this is
1:03:32short it's from 2 hours 20 minutes and
1:03:3510 seconds through 2 hours 21 minutes
1:03:37and 20
1:03:39seconds before I do that let me ask you
1:03:42some questions okay because this is our
1:03:45investigation right you're taking all
1:03:47these trips up to Palmer Lake multiple
1:03:50trips different cars renting a car okay
1:03:54how are you not involved
1:03:56first off I didn't never get the drive
1:03:58to runal Car anywhere because
1:04:00immediately once we let me let me go in
1:04:02correct on this now once we got the
1:04:05rental car or whatever the National
1:04:07Guard was there everybody was in the
1:04:09house we went and Albert's truck the
1:04:12whole entire day going to come and go
1:04:14and all these places so I never drove
1:04:17the Rental Car anywhere and it's already
1:04:19been corrected from budget about the
1:04:21rental car situation I had to get that
1:04:23corrected yesterday I never even drove
1:04:26it anywhere because I didn't get to so
1:04:28what whatever GPS you get from the
1:04:30rental car it never was driven by me
1:04:32anywhere but literally up the street
1:04:35back I didn't hardly drive it anywhere
1:04:36so there was no rental car driven to any
1:04:38kind of places at
1:04:41all the only time I went anywhere in the
1:04:44car might have been maybe 40 50 miles I
1:04:46don't know no more than 100 miles
1:04:48counting there and back and that was
1:04:49just driving it through the day because
1:04:51I didn't have I went back to get my car
1:04:56what information did you have about
1:04:58rental cars when you were asking that
1:05:01question uh we had that on the day Al
1:05:04returned back in town which I believe
1:05:06was
1:05:07Tuesday uh the Tiguan had been parked at
1:05:10the airport and Leticia had rented a car
1:05:13for that day leading into the next day
1:05:17but then she had actually came came back
1:05:19and picked up the Tiguan Tuesday
1:05:21night um I don't remember or not if I
1:05:24had the mileage as she is correct here
1:05:26and she drove it between 50 and 100
1:05:28miles I think it was about 70 Mi it came
1:05:31back that the rental car was driven
1:05:34and like she said correctly you you
1:05:37could see the level of detail here
1:05:39believe she's being honest and it
1:05:41probably was not driven up to Palmer
1:05:42Lake uh so yeah it was uh factually
1:05:46correct what she was saying were you
1:05:48aware of her having access to any other
1:05:51rental cars during the early days of
1:05:52this
1:05:53investigation yes like the Nissan
1:05:56Ultima yes I believe her Tiguan was
1:05:59seized and then after that she rented
1:06:01the Nissan a relative rent of the Nissan
1:06:05we've got that in evidence that's came
1:06:07from a different witness but also uh did
1:06:10you later learn that she also had access
1:06:12to um two different types of rental vans
1:06:15yes I learned that later
1:06:18okay did you have a discussion about uh
1:06:22PetSmart Petco that leads into
1:06:25discussion about um Blood on the walls
1:06:28and on her shoes and that kind of thing
1:06:30yes we're going to jump to 2 hours 24
1:06:34minutes and 51 seconds and play through
1:06:362 hours and 28 minutes and 5
1:06:41Seconds because everything that I've
1:06:43looked at in this case when you see the
1:06:46blood spatter on the wall you see a big
1:06:49pool in the corner you see your shoes
1:06:51that we've collected with ganon's blood
1:06:54on the bottom of them okay
1:06:57and then you point to Eduardo who
1:07:00doesn't exist or maybe he did exist and
1:07:03we don't have a last name then you point
1:07:05to Quincy Brown and then you say Uncle
1:07:08Matt these these names and stuff and
1:07:10it's like I've seen it before MH and
1:07:14that that was Herold that was but I'm
1:07:16not Herald I'm not saying you are but
1:07:18I'm saying I'm this is my experience
1:07:20right I got you I'm not saying you are
1:07:22but it didn't go well for him because
1:07:24his attorney got up he was one of the
1:07:26best attorneys in Colorado he cost
1:07:28$600,000 mhm Craig Tran and he started
1:07:32he paid $600,000 okay with his dead
1:07:35wife's
1:07:36money and U Craig got up and said Harold
1:07:40is not a murderer but he is a liar right
1:07:44and that's what I was worried about when
1:07:47I first got the case because they asked
1:07:48me to come in and work that case because
1:07:50I had worked other cases like it and
1:07:52Harold's just sitting there all
1:07:54confident whatever else please don't say
1:07:55this is you I'm just saying this is my
1:07:56experience because Harold told all these
1:07:58different
1:07:59stories but when you start out with your
1:08:01defense attorney saying my client is a
1:08:04liar he's just making up crap MH that's
1:08:06to the victim's family on how Tony died
1:08:09that's to his friends at church and all
1:08:11them got up and testified these are the
1:08:13different ways Tony died again it's not
1:08:16good but he might be today you don't
1:08:19know that if someone is willing if this
1:08:22whether it's related or not the head
1:08:24thing if someone's willing to hold a kid
1:08:26for 30 days how are they not willing to
1:08:28kill him can I ask you something or can
1:08:30I say something
1:08:31yes even
1:08:34if the scenario would have been me just
1:08:37going to go talk to the life the lady
1:08:40here and telling
1:08:42them hey this is what happened this is
1:08:45who did it I know that he was hurt by
1:08:50someone you know what the next question
1:08:52you're going to say to me who was this
1:08:54person and all I say to you was oh well
1:08:57can you help me figure it out from this
1:08:58app or can you help me figure out from
1:09:00this you know what you would say to me
1:09:02oh yeah sure
1:09:04right that's exactly what you would say
1:09:06to
1:09:07me so finding the unless I can take you
1:09:13directly to where Ganon is safe and
1:09:16sound that is the only way that you're
1:09:19going to be like oh okay wait and she
1:09:22was telling the truth about so so this
1:09:24person is telling you he says so that's
1:09:26the only thing you would have been
1:09:29like I've even asked y'all or I say
1:09:33y'all again I mean
1:09:34you're bad I get it okay hey please help
1:09:39why is it little water please please
1:09:40please you're not understanding like I
1:09:43beg that I have beg that
1:09:46completely like day in
1:09:50day me
1:09:53it beg it to let me I still don't
1:09:56understand the t- the thing I
1:09:58don't so in this discussion where you're
1:10:01trying to find information about how
1:10:04could there be blood in these places and
1:10:05on walls and Eduardo and Quincy and all
1:10:08that kind of thing
1:10:11um is this consistent approach from her
1:10:14in that she then doesn't want to give
1:10:16you any answers
1:10:19yes when you when either in the in the
1:10:22recorded consensual phone calls with Mr
1:10:24stout or this interview um did she ever
1:10:27give you any explanation like you know
1:10:30what I just woke up and Ganon was hurt
1:10:32and I don't know what happened no did
1:10:34she ever um say that she blacked out and
1:10:37Ganon was just gone and didn't know what
1:10:39happened she said once what that her
1:10:42head was hit and she was unconscious
1:10:44during part of this period but not that
1:10:46she didn't know what happened okay um
1:10:49did she ever say she woke up in some
1:10:51other place and didn't know what
1:10:52happened no
1:10:57um some point there's been a couple of
1:11:00references now where she's wanting to go
1:11:01off camera and she does it here again as
1:11:03well some point does one of the uh Das
1:11:07that was with you out in South Carolina
1:11:08actually come into the room and have a
1:11:10discussion with her about going off
1:11:12camera yes was that Martha mckin yes was
1:11:15who was the other da that was with you
1:11:17out in South Carolina do you remember I
1:11:19don't was it the young lady sitting here
1:11:21with us Angelina gratiano hi
1:11:25she look familiar yes she does I'm going
1:11:28to jump to that section so jumping to 2
1:11:30hours 34 minutes and 20 seconds through
1:11:332 hours 44 minutes and 54
1:11:43seconds and before I jump as I'm typing
1:11:46in the that time stamp to get to that
1:11:49exact point is it shortly after this uh
1:11:52where um you actually leave the room for
1:11:54a little while and and have a discussion
1:11:56about can we do this off camera thing
1:11:59yes and when you did that was that
1:12:02leaving her in the room the defendant in
1:12:03that same room by herself for some
1:12:05period of time correct uh did she do
1:12:07anything unusual during inside the room
1:12:09during that time I recall starts talking
1:12:11in Spanish or anything like that no okay
1:12:14so we're at 23420 and I'm going to play
1:12:16through
1:12:2024454 I'm I'm with the District
1:12:23Attorney's office so you know I looked
1:12:26behind there this this place is under
1:12:28construction there's no one back I can
1:12:29walk you back there if you want to look
1:12:31oh no I believe you I just talking about
1:12:33all these people watching yeah and Marth
1:12:36has been watching yeah I have yeah John
1:12:39said you wanted to talk to me about
1:12:41protection so I I don't have any trust
1:12:45in anyone and obviously I know I've told
1:12:47him that I said things to Albert because
1:12:49I was mad not F whatever but how do I
1:12:52know that I'm G to get help like because
1:12:58I didn't hurt the okay at all but I need
1:13:02the help to figure
1:13:05out
1:13:06how how we're going to get G let me read
1:13:08you what she wrote for all I'll just
1:13:10show it to and I know Saturday I
1:13:12probably
1:13:14yeah my head thing was Saturday and had
1:13:16nothing to do with this check my phone
1:13:18for an app this will explain so we do
1:13:21have your phone and we have gone through
1:13:23like these are key Strokes right right
1:13:26I'm talking about like it's a download
1:13:29apps did you have a different phone
1:13:31beside the one that was in your
1:13:33van did you have another phone like a
1:13:36second phone yeah no no no no it's the
1:13:39same phone the same pH not the same
1:13:41phone you guys have the the phone that
1:13:44was just someone else's phone okay yeah
1:13:46but at this at this time that yeah
1:13:49understand that's the same 843 is A500
1:13:53but you didn't have a second one that
1:13:54this app might be
1:13:55no no no no I only had this
1:13:58phone
1:14:00so and let me explain marur my
1:14:03understanding what Leti is asking is how
1:14:05does she know since I've said if there's
1:14:07a bad guy or guys out there that did
1:14:10this to gon that she can tell us where
1:14:13these guys are and she's concerned for
1:14:16not only her safety but the safety of
1:14:18her family right and how can he asked me
1:14:22would I trade my life for gon and I said
1:14:25yes but I said it's also other people
1:14:27like how do I know that everyone
1:14:30else is not it's not going to be like
1:14:34you're not and how do I know that you
1:14:36guys aren't just trying to be like
1:14:37whatever if I walk you through anything
1:14:40or can help you with anything I don't
1:14:42want to be just thrown somewhere like
1:14:45being like okay well you didn't tell me
1:14:47this and I want to be able to help you
1:14:49and work together because I'm sure you
1:14:51have kids or grandkids or whatever I do
1:14:53I don't want to sound like I'm
1:14:55coldhearted and I'm just tired of being
1:14:58like the person chased instead of being
1:15:00able to have someone actually have
1:15:01compassion to help
1:15:03me well I I was a little bit confused
1:15:06when I was watching it because John
1:15:08talked about how they're the FBI and
1:15:11they're the premier law enforcement
1:15:13agency that could protect you could
1:15:15protect your entire
1:15:17family um and they if get Al alive they
1:15:22okay I can't make you any promises right
1:15:26um because obviously there's a lot of
1:15:29information that you have that we don't
1:15:32okay so there aren't any promises I
1:15:33can't come in here and and promise you
1:15:36anything regarding the court case or um
1:15:39the the arrest warrant or your
1:15:41involvement in it okay but I can tell
1:15:43you what the number one priority is
1:15:45right and it's to find Ganon right and
1:15:48so if you were talking to some small law
1:15:52enforcement agency and they said sure
1:15:54we'll protect you I mean I can see how
1:15:56you would be suspicious of that why you
1:15:59guys were the lead agency that's why I
1:16:01was asking it yeah I mean they they're
1:16:02are the most elite agency there is oh
1:16:05okay and so if there was a time for for
1:16:08you to feel like the you could protect
1:16:12um that recorder we can because I know
1:16:15you have yours that's what I'm saying
1:16:17there's a
1:16:17backup so um if you want the recording
1:16:21turned off you need to tell us really
1:16:23explicitly that's that's your choice
1:16:26because the recordings um have been put
1:16:28into law so that there's not a debate
1:16:31where he says you said one thing and you
1:16:33said I didn't right so it's to protect
1:16:35the person being interviewed right but
1:16:37if it's something that you it's not that
1:16:39I'm I'm trying to I just don't since I
1:16:41wanted to have like a conversation with
1:16:43him just him and try to explain to him
1:16:47in complete detail about everything
1:16:49because I do want this I want the help
1:16:52to the next level to find out where he
1:16:55is I really do you guys have looked
1:16:58you've went to GPS's and all this but
1:17:01you haven't found gain because you're
1:17:02coming after me and I understand you're
1:17:05going to say well this is what we have
1:17:07to go on and I respect that totally but
1:17:10it was the first time I ever get to sit
1:17:11down with people to actually to say okay
1:17:15this is what happened this is what I
1:17:17know please help me because then I feel
1:17:20like if I don't cuz see I easily would
1:17:22be like hey just give me an attorney and
1:17:24call it to dat I really want do you
1:17:27think I want to waste time if I got
1:17:29resources when that's all I've asked for
1:17:32I don't want to waste time and and if
1:17:34there's a chance he can be saved
1:17:36everybody wants that
1:17:39information but the only people who can
1:17:41save them by the
1:17:43FBI um I don't want you to think that
1:17:46this is being broadcast to the whole
1:17:47world right you know there's another da
1:17:50with me there's an El Paso County person
1:17:52right um
1:17:56and they're the ones what what the
1:17:58reason that we do that also is I might
1:18:01miss something and I probably do and so
1:18:03then I can go talk to him and say what
1:18:05am I missing and right and then also it
1:18:08protects you because if I make a promise
1:18:10that I can't deliver on with the FBI
1:18:12then Martha gets to hear it and then she
1:18:13would knock on the door but as soon as I
1:18:15give you information what's going to
1:18:17happen is someone's going to say well
1:18:19you were involved with this person you
1:18:21were cheating with this person you were
1:18:23doing this I'm just giving you scenarios
1:18:26but that's a lot better situation than
1:18:28you're in right now but what if I wasn't
1:18:29that's my thing and that that's where
1:18:31the burden of proof I can't I can't
1:18:34depend my life on the burden of proof to
1:18:36be involved with just someone thinking
1:18:38that I'm just a bad person I did not Hur
1:18:41G
1:18:43okay there aren't any promises I can
1:18:46make you about
1:18:48you um I I can tell you that we're
1:18:52looking for the truth and it's seemed to
1:18:55me from listening to it that you had
1:18:58information um but I can't make you any
1:19:01promises but what I'm saying is if
1:19:03you're saying to me I have information
1:19:06you're going to come and say well you
1:19:07should have given this information when
1:19:09I did nothing but ATT attack that's what
1:19:11I'm saying you see I'm saying you can't
1:19:13armchair quarterback yourself though do
1:19:16you know what I'm saying you you can't
1:19:18look into the future and say well we're
1:19:21going to say this because you said this
1:19:24if what Martha and I are saying are true
1:19:25and that our only focus is Ganon we
1:19:28don't care who leads us there we just
1:19:30need Ganon then you are protecting
1:19:33yourself by telling us this if you never
1:19:35give us this information then you don't
1:19:37protect yourself and then we have one
1:19:39person to prosecute for G one our focus
1:19:43is who took him and who hurt him not
1:19:47with when people came forward with
1:19:49information how do I know that because
1:19:53that that's my that's that's my biggest
1:19:55thing I know you're saying that but like
1:19:57whatever I can do to help I can help you
1:20:00but I'm saying how do I know that if
1:20:03let's just say it's a whatever I tell
1:20:06you a specific person okay let's just
1:20:09say that okay then my my thing is what
1:20:13you your thing is going to be like well
1:20:15you held this information for me and I'm
1:20:17having to utilize my
1:20:19resources okay and do all those things
1:20:22not understanding that maybe sometimes
1:20:25there are people who are afraid of any
1:20:28other things going
1:20:30on uh every day in my work there are
1:20:34people who report things later than some
1:20:37people think they should every day um
1:20:41and we try to focus on the violent crime
1:20:43and we certainly try to focus on kids um
1:20:47I know that you want assurances and you
1:20:50want me to be able to say you know I
1:20:53will or won't do do this um and I can't
1:20:57make you promises cuz I'm in the dark
1:20:59right it would be foolish for me to make
1:21:01you promises but I have people who might
1:21:04report sex assaults all the time we have
1:21:07people who come forward years
1:21:09later our interest is in the truth about
1:21:13the
1:21:15crime this is really all's conversation
1:21:18that have um and I know that you wanted
1:21:21to have a Frank conversation with them
1:21:23where you could really tell them so
1:21:24unless you need me I'm gonna step out
1:21:27okay but you're still going back in the
1:21:29rooms would you turn it off yes okay yes
1:21:32we'll turn it off um how do I know that
1:21:36but not that I don't want you to know
1:21:37anything I want to be able to like
1:21:39really talk to him and just know that I
1:21:41can sincere see in your heart you're
1:21:43going to help me I can bring you back
1:21:45there and you can see us turn it off but
1:21:48the truth is I could just turn it back
1:21:49on again I know I mean there's a point
1:21:51where no one can verify everything you
1:21:53want well plus that's her life she has
1:21:57to tell the truth just like un to you
1:21:58when you don't want her to listen to you
1:22:00you kind of have to look at logic here
1:22:02okay I don't think Martha would throw
1:22:03away no I don't and I don't want you to
1:22:05know I want you to have all the
1:22:06information that's it so are you okay
1:22:09with the reporting continuing we just
1:22:10won't be monitoring it no I don't he
1:22:13said that we you want it to turn off he
1:22:15said I could just talk to him okay um so
1:22:18we're just going to turn off the
1:22:18reporting and that's your choice that's
1:22:20what you want right yes um and so he
1:22:23controls the turning it off off from
1:22:25here or are they no you'll have to ask
1:22:27I'll have some and so it's it's just
1:22:29going to get turned off okay and then
1:22:31once F then I'll come back out and we'll
1:22:34turn it back on and it'll it'll be a
1:22:36conversation between the two of you and
1:22:38it'll be like the way um law enforcement
1:22:40all right anything else for me no I'm
1:22:42going to go get them turn it
1:22:44up I know they're
1:22:47not do you want me to that it's fine I
1:22:50just not it's not that I don't want to
1:22:52know anything so that's that P judge do
1:22:54you want to take the break now or go a
1:22:56little bit more let's go a little bit
1:22:58longer
1:23:00okay okay yeah let's go a little bit
1:23:12longer some point did you have a
1:23:14discussion with the defendant during
1:23:15this interview where you're talking
1:23:16about
1:23:17Ransom yes wh why was that part of the
1:23:21discussion she had brought that up I
1:23:23think it was on February 15th that
1:23:25Quincy Brown was demanding a ransom and
1:23:29also since we were talking about a group
1:23:32possibly having Ganon there was I
1:23:35couldn't see another reason why someone
1:23:36would have him he would still be alive
1:23:38without them asking for something in
1:23:41demand but but why bring it up in that
1:23:43in that particular interview are why
1:23:46confront her with
1:23:48that just to change tactics a little bit
1:23:51and see if she will move somewhere else
1:23:54really okay um in that portion of the
1:23:57discussion were you um also talking to
1:24:00her about uh in Ransom cases kids don't
1:24:04actually turn out to be
1:24:06okay yeah and I hadn't maybe I'd worked
1:24:09one Ransom case if that uh we just we
1:24:12don't see that very often normally our
1:24:14rule is the the 24hour rule the 48 hour
1:24:16rule the further the further away you
1:24:18get from an adduction uh the less likely
1:24:22the child is going to survive and so now
1:24:24we were at over a month does that same
1:24:28hold true um for a missing kid so the
1:24:30longer you get away from the point that
1:24:32a kid goes missing uh the chances of
1:24:35survival go down as well
1:24:37correct did the defendant bring up a who
1:24:41she describes as an FBI agent named
1:24:43Barbara yes um what was your take on
1:24:46that portion of the discussion I did not
1:24:49know a Barbara who was involved and I
1:24:50asked the Colorado Springs office if
1:24:52there was a Barbara working in the cas
1:24:54and they said no as well
1:25:01okay the next section judge that I want
1:25:04to get into is about a 10-minute video
1:25:05do you want me to go into that play it
1:25:07and then let's do that then
1:25:09okay uh
1:25:11so preceding that uh she's already sort
1:25:15of challenged you on uh because you
1:25:18asked the question a particular way um
1:25:20that shows that she couldn't trust you
1:25:22as it relates to Quincy being in Mexico
1:25:23do you remember that that part yes um
1:25:25does she bring that up again about
1:25:27that's why I have a problem with trust
1:25:29yes all right and so I'm going to jump
1:25:30to two hours and 49 minutes and one
1:25:38second um and then it happened February
1:25:425th I
1:25:44think so what happened was I got all the
1:25:47messages when I logged back in for my
1:25:50iOS I got all the messages that were
1:25:53like just sitting there and so I took
1:25:56that message and I forward it to like I
1:25:59I sent it to people and I sent it to
1:26:01Albert and I said hey I said can you get
1:26:03someone to like look into this I said it
1:26:06could be just people you know sending
1:26:08random messages or could be creepers you
1:26:11know like people whatever being stupid
1:26:14or it could be just in general you know
1:26:17um the actual person and so no one ever
1:26:21said anything to me about it then I get
1:26:23the Snapchat
1:26:24okay so that let me let me interrupt you
1:26:27for a second
1:26:29M Matia there's an 11-year-old kid again
1:26:33we have to go back there 11-year-old kid
1:26:36injuries in the house now we know
1:26:39that
1:26:41taken and you don't come to law
1:26:44enforcement for 30 years this was this
1:26:46was a law enforcement person Barbara I
1:26:48mean how did you get him from except
1:26:50through your friend you had Amber from
1:26:53the FBI she said that she worked with
1:26:55the FBI and she was going to send
1:26:57information she said that she worked
1:26:59with Amber I swear to you if you call
1:27:02Lady you can get the number from her to
1:27:03find out what what barber who who the
1:27:06barber lady was and she was actually
1:27:08emailing her today but but if you told
1:27:11them back then and you trusted them with
1:27:14that information this is why I why are
1:27:17you not today when because no one has
1:27:20helped I tried since February 5th the
1:27:23fifth today's
1:27:25March that's why you see I had such a
1:27:28problem with trust is because I was
1:27:30there when you were talking to Amber
1:27:32though that was your chance Amber yeah
1:27:35that's a legit FBI so then is that what
1:27:38happened when I was talking to Amber I
1:27:39got a message back from the attorney who
1:27:41said not to talk to you guys because you
1:27:43guys a weren't lead agency or something
1:27:46like that and then B not to say anything
1:27:48else unless he was present that was when
1:27:51I was trying to talk to Amber but why
1:27:53wasn't that with Barbara then because I
1:27:55gave it to my friend Amy who was had
1:27:57this relationship with Barbara like
1:27:59trying to check on every see and I've
1:28:01again this sounds like a lot of your
1:28:03calls mhm to where you're you're
1:28:05pointing fingers in different directions
1:28:07but never giving specific things right I
1:28:10right now I mean if Ganon is somewhere
1:28:14and you can get us there and they he's
1:28:16sent proof of life or a picture of gon
1:28:19or whatever else it makes no sense for
1:28:21someone for some man to have 11y old
1:28:25child that it wasn't that it was because
1:28:27we thought it was someone playing games
1:28:30and if someone was playing games we were
1:28:32trying to say that that person would
1:28:33have been like like obstructing or
1:28:37whatever that was the point not some
1:28:39somebody had him and they were like here
1:28:41come get my point was it was that we
1:28:43thought it was someone hey here's
1:28:45someone playing games could you find out
1:28:46who this person is but you see where
1:28:48that's going and all your talks without
1:28:50those are distractions those take up
1:28:52time yeah and gon's over here somewhere
1:28:56yeah and you are misleading law
1:28:58enforcement no I didn't mislead them no
1:29:01well you're misleading anybody who would
1:29:02report to us no I didn't mislead any of
1:29:05them who who did I mislead with all
1:29:08these other stories that was to Alber it
1:29:09wasn't misleading all but you knew we
1:29:11were in the room you and I that's I
1:29:14wouldn't have said stuff like that if I
1:29:16was trying to mislead I was just being
1:29:18whatever Albert cuz he was making me
1:29:19upset that's all the dad of a kid who
1:29:22Kent is not finding son because I'm also
1:29:27the stepmother who helped him get the
1:29:29kids and he wouldn't have gotten them
1:29:30without me so yes he wouldn't have
1:29:34you're willing to do that to Al though
1:29:36no I already had apologize to him and
1:29:38said that was awful for say that to him
1:29:40out of anger I had already done that but
1:29:43before we kick this thing in motion
1:29:45about all this protection and
1:29:50whatever why haven't you said one thing
1:29:52though today how how in the world would
1:29:54he suffer a head wound on Saturday that
1:29:56required I didn't say it was a head
1:29:58wound that required I said the head
1:29:59thing you're talking about when I said
1:30:01something to Albert that's the head
1:30:03thing you're talking
1:30:05about that's what I think so the bike
1:30:07accident thing you already trying bike
1:30:09accident no the head thing talking to
1:30:12Albert never mind I'll just I'll just
1:30:15wait until you are ready to talk to me
1:30:17with from beginning uh to the end
1:30:20because I already said that that is
1:30:22completely irrelevant to anything think
1:30:24that what you're talking about is
1:30:25completely
1:30:27relevant I told Albert something else
1:30:30that was just stories just to be
1:30:32whatever to him and it was wrong and I
1:30:34already had apologize so the things that
1:30:36you told Albert were that he was peeling
1:30:39these Burns was that happening I'm not
1:30:42going to answer any more questions
1:30:44because you're asking me about things
1:30:46telling Albert out of being obset there
1:30:49was nothing happening that I was telling
1:30:51Albert nothing it was literally just
1:30:54saying that to Albert because I was
1:30:56upset for him not standing by me and was
1:30:59figuring this out this had nothing to do
1:31:01with me wanting to purposefully do
1:31:03whatever or tell you guys anything that
1:31:06was not what it was it was me being
1:31:08upset with Al let me go back
1:31:11to a kid missing is about as bad as it
1:31:15gets oh yeah I had a bank robbery 15
1:31:19years ago to where a female went in the
1:31:22bank she robbed the bank
1:31:25she got the money she came back to the
1:31:27car and she drove away
1:31:30mhm she was prosecuted for that there
1:31:32were guys in the car with guns mhm okay
1:31:36but what did she could have gone into
1:31:37the bank said lock those doors those
1:31:40guys are making me do this right you
1:31:43yours is now we have 30 some days of gon
1:31:47missing and you haven't talk to One law
1:31:49enforcement officer to say I know where
1:31:52he is and he's safe I never I never did
1:31:55not try to talk to you guys I never did
1:31:57not no one ever when I felt like I was
1:32:01getting like completely like Bam Bam Bam
1:32:03bamed by the El Paso that's no one ever
1:32:07reached out to me from FBI to like have
1:32:10a conversation like you did no one no
1:32:12one ever did and you don't feel
1:32:14comfortable talking to El Paso
1:32:17why it's not that I don't feel
1:32:18comfortable talking to them I just feel
1:32:21like from point A to point B they have
1:32:24taken this approach and like you made
1:32:26even a comment about something about
1:32:28Palmer Lake and all this about this
1:32:31right because that's that's the approach
1:32:34that they taken as if it's just a person
1:32:36who is not alive and that bothers me
1:32:39because I don't want well we we're
1:32:42actually the ones we're the ones that
1:32:44told them that and that's statistically
1:32:46true what you statistically tell what
1:32:49from ganon's age MH and from the amount
1:32:52of time that he's been missing he is
1:32:54most likely dead but what I'm saying is
1:32:58as a parent is that maybe because you're
1:33:01like used to saying that or something
1:33:04but is that something like as a parent
1:33:06you would want to hear no but would you
1:33:09rather hear a lie would you rather hear
1:33:11statistically he's probably alive when
1:33:14it's about a I would say it's less than
1:33:16a 1% chance at this point but why him
1:33:19being 11 they would have asked for
1:33:21something if but why kidnappings don't
1:33:23happen
1:33:24without a demand or without it being a
1:33:27parental deal parental deal or a demand
1:33:30so you're saying that nothing else
1:33:32nobody intervenes ever ever I've seen
1:33:35one other time and again I've worked
1:33:37violent crime in Denver for 20 years a
1:33:39little over and I saw one kid wander
1:33:42down the street he had autism and this
1:33:44was up in Brighton and a guy took him in
1:33:47the house he had him for a day the guy
1:33:50was mentally disabled as well so he had
1:33:53two things happening at once we had a
1:33:55kid with autism who just started
1:33:57wandering and then we had a
1:33:59developmentally delayed adult who was
1:34:01just playing video games with him for 24
1:34:03hours but we ended up the public said
1:34:06there and I remember knocking on the
1:34:08door he had made little blankets for the
1:34:10kid in there the kid was playing video
1:34:12games and nothing bad had happened right
1:34:14that's the exception I've been to where
1:34:16kids have been dismembered 10year olds
1:34:19that's awesome and from the blood in the
1:34:21house that's what I'm thinking happened
1:34:23I'm not saying he just got dismembered
1:34:25in the house but there's enough blood in
1:34:27there that we don't think he
1:34:31survived how could you have like
1:34:36possibly say that when you clearly began
1:34:40in Walking leaving on
1:34:43Monday that's see that's that's leaving
1:34:46on Monday at 10 yes right correct
1:34:51right walking
1:34:54okay but he comes back walking correct
1:34:57okay walking not walking well totally
1:35:00fine stomach hurts walk with like this
1:35:04yes okay yeah but he's back at two back
1:35:08at two mhm
1:35:09okay
1:35:12okay okay if that's if that's what you
1:35:16say then I'm just then this whole thing
1:35:19is like even pointless to even say
1:35:21anything because if you're saying back
1:35:23it to
1:35:25but then you're also saying something
1:35:27about going legs and here and there and
1:35:29whatever and it's like none of it is
1:35:32even making sense it doesn't even make
1:35:34sense so between the true two Petco
1:35:36trips is when he disappeared
1:35:39then it doesn't make sense to mea to say
1:35:44so let me tell
1:35:47you I've been working for 14 years with
1:35:50a guy named Scott Kimble he's our
1:35:51informant that went around killing the
1:35:53girls you remember me telling you about
1:35:55him before oh yeah when we first started
1:35:58not our best day because I have dads out
1:36:00there who still wonder if their
1:36:02daughters are alive MH Scott taught me
1:36:04one thing very well there's only two
1:36:07people that can tell a story when
1:36:09someone either goes missing cuz one of
1:36:11one of these girls Jennifer she's still
1:36:14missing like I said we we're pretty sure
1:36:15she's dead cuz it's been 14 years since
1:36:18anybody's seen
1:36:19her but Scott told me John only two guys
1:36:23only two people can testify to what me
1:36:25happened between me and Jennifer and
1:36:27that's me and that's Jennifer and you're
1:36:30never going to find her he said that to
1:36:33you he did
1:36:35wow so I've got to answer to his dad for
1:36:38the rest of my life and I'll probably be
1:36:40answering to his dad after I retire
1:36:43because Dad has my cell phone dad calls
1:36:45me on her birthday on the day she went
1:36:47missing on Father's day how was he able
1:36:49to say that to you like because he's
1:36:52like there's no other way Witnesses so
1:36:55when when I take a guess and that's a
1:36:57guess that he came back home that's
1:36:59because people that looked on the videos
1:37:01said he probably did or you know I don't
1:37:04have the information you have and I hear
1:37:06you do that to Al MH by saying oh so
1:37:09that's what you think well none of us
1:37:11know you know because I have to be that
1:37:14way if I don't be that way then no one's
1:37:17going to help me I don't I didn't her
1:37:19gon I didn't that's fine but right now
1:37:21you're the only one who was with me I
1:37:23didn't hurt gon but how are you going to
1:37:25get past these charges without
1:37:29help how does that work when without
1:37:32help without you telling me like again
1:37:36it'd be like someone I told you the
1:37:37story about Jennifer if somebody knew
1:37:39for Jennifer was mhm and they're not
1:37:41telling me or Bob Markham that I didn't
1:37:43say I knew where Danny was you said you
1:37:46know he's okay no I said as a parent I'm
1:37:49never going to sit here and say look at
1:37:52you and say he's not okay that's not
1:37:55what I'm going to do because I didn't do
1:37:57this so why would I look at you and say
1:37:59that like I'm dead looking at you in the
1:38:01eye saying I would never as a parent say
1:38:05that no way could I ever say that
1:38:08because I love
1:38:10Danon I did not hurt Danon okay I told
1:38:14you all right now it's really three
1:38:15hours one minute and 35 seconds all
1:38:17right ladies and gentlemen we will take
1:38:19our afternoon break until
1:38:213:35 Mr alen thank you we'll just need
1:38:24the screens turned back on
1:38:26again thank you
1:38:29judge in that last section and also in
1:38:31the section um where the other da was in
1:38:34the room um appears that defendant used
1:38:38misdirection again um again was that
1:38:41fairly common throughout this whole
1:38:43thing yes and she was very effective at
1:38:46doing it when we brought uh the district
1:38:49attorney in and she couldn't promise
1:38:51Leticia something that was yet just
1:38:53another obstacle that we had to overcome
1:38:55to get to the questions we were asking
1:38:58um similar to the idea that if uh she
1:39:02would put conditions out there
1:39:04that maybe even be difficult for you to
1:39:06meet yeah the witness protection the DEA
1:39:11involving other federal agencies you
1:39:13know she she had a very organized way of
1:39:16thinking about how I might not be able
1:39:18to do the things she's asking and thus
1:39:20she might not have to answer the
1:39:22questions
1:39:23when when the when the misdirection
1:39:25would be employed by the defendant was
1:39:27it around specific points of interest in
1:39:30the story of what happened to gon yes
1:39:33such as what well right now we were
1:39:36trying to figure out who had him to get
1:39:39did the identity of that that was where
1:39:41we were focused and then instead of
1:39:43giving a name she would give conditions
1:39:45but looking back at the phone calls she
1:39:47would do the same thing with Al it was a
1:39:50condition of their relationship status
1:39:52first before she would give a location
1:39:54of
1:39:56Ganon do you remember her making a
1:39:58statement right after what we just
1:40:00watched where she says I'm not the one
1:40:03yes um and you then go through an uh
1:40:07description of extradition to Colorado
1:40:09and being in jail yes okay we're going
1:40:12to play that next and that starts at 3
1:40:14hours 1 minute 41 seconds through 3
1:40:17hours 3 minutes and 33
1:40:20seconds I'll just play it directly from
1:40:23here actually cuz it's only 6 seconds
1:40:24later I told you where most of these
1:40:27happen they happen in the house with
1:40:29parents who love their par I get what
1:40:30you're saying okay I understand I
1:40:33appreciate what you're saying I
1:40:36appreciate all the work and time and
1:40:38dedication you put into all of these
1:40:39things that have those
1:40:41statistics but I am not the one but then
1:40:45if you're not the one not the one you're
1:40:47you're going so do you know what happens
1:40:49from here what you go to a local holding
1:40:51cell they hold you for 24 hours up to 2
1:40:55weeks until you get extradited back to
1:40:57Colorado okay you're in jail
1:41:00Laticia and unless you tell me that
1:41:03somebody else did this you're the only
1:41:05one that did it no I didn't do it but
1:41:07I'm telling you but I didn't but that's
1:41:10what would be horrible is if someone
1:41:12else did this and you're going to let
1:41:14them skate because you're scared not
1:41:16letting someone skate what could you
1:41:18possibly be scared of at this point I'm
1:41:20not letting do you think I would sit
1:41:21here and let someone skate if could take
1:41:23you directly to the person right now why
1:41:26do you think I would need
1:41:27resources you don't need resour right
1:41:30now what you need is that if someone
1:41:33took my son yeah and I know who it is am
1:41:38I going to go to jail for the rest of my
1:41:40life because someone else took my son no
1:41:42absolutely not no and would I be afraid
1:41:44of my own protection going to jail when
1:41:47I could be free and that person could go
1:41:50to jail that doesn't Jesus said there
1:41:52even if I walk you to the person she
1:41:54just sit there and said oh I can't make
1:41:57any promises I can't make promises but
1:41:58which is better to go to jail for the
1:42:01rest your life and and hope that we find
1:42:03the person or to point us to a person if
1:42:06I'm in your position it makes no sense
1:42:09right what could you be scared of at
1:42:11this point reprisals no uh the fact that
1:42:15I'm you don't have apparently you would
1:42:19have found some of this already if you
1:42:20would have had the resources that's what
1:42:22scares me
1:42:24so stopping it at 3 hours 3 minutes and
1:42:2633 seconds um after you explained the
1:42:29extradition you said you're the only one
1:42:31that did this um does she then use
1:42:33misdirection again to get you off topic
1:42:35and move you away from trying to press
1:42:37her
1:42:40yes what about the what's your
1:42:42impression of that very end where um
1:42:44what scares me from her perspective is
1:42:47you would have found this if you had the
1:42:48resources what's your take on
1:42:51that it's uh what I explain to her
1:42:53earlier that she's expecting me to know
1:42:55answers to the questions that only she
1:42:59has the answers
1:43:04to is she also in a sense um challenging
1:43:08whether you even have the the ability as
1:43:10an FBI agency to provide her the things
1:43:14that she's putting down as conditions
1:43:18yes did you confront her by saying uh
1:43:22right after this her story makes no
1:43:23sense I did so I'm going to jump jump to
1:43:26that section it's uh 3 hours 3 minutes
1:43:28and 49 seconds and it goes through three
1:43:31hours 4 minutes and 59 seconds Laticia
1:43:34your story makes no sense and what it
1:43:36goes back to now is that you can't take
1:43:38responsibility for what happened to
1:43:40gamon I didn't do anything to game sir
1:43:42you can't insert someone else in here
1:43:44unless you're going to tell me who it is
1:43:45okay I didn't do anything to game here
1:43:48that's fine but then you would tell me
1:43:51who it is if you if it's someone else
1:43:53the G there did he do it to himself okay
1:43:56I didn't do anything I'm not asking you
1:43:58if you did I'm asking did Ganon do it to
1:44:02himself do what to himself the head
1:44:04injury the neck injury whatever that was
1:44:07that caused that pool of blood down by
1:44:09the bottom of its bed you know that the
1:44:12sheets and all that stuff the blood
1:44:13seats down in it and what now the blood
1:44:17seeped down that through that
1:44:19corner sheets through the sheets into
1:44:21the mattress
1:44:24I have no idea what you're even talking
1:44:25about you cleaned it up off the wall so
1:44:29wait wait wait there's you know where
1:44:31the head of his b was I don't I don't
1:44:33know anything about blood and sheets
1:44:35okay I did not take any sheets and clean
1:44:38up you told out on the phone you cleaned
1:44:40up the
1:44:43wall
1:44:46is so now paused at 3 hours 4 minutes
1:44:49and 59 seconds um you start to confront
1:44:52her about the head injury and blood and
1:44:54all that sort of thing um did she use
1:44:57misdirection there again directing away
1:44:59from the head injury yes what's what was
1:45:02significant about that to
1:45:07you by this point you know none of my
1:45:10questioning was effective with her so
1:45:12every time we would go to one of these
1:45:15and she would
1:45:16misdirect um the significance just was
1:45:20that I was going to have to change
1:45:21course yet again
1:45:23again was this happening as you're
1:45:25trying to dive into what actually
1:45:27happened Ganon but then she diverts over
1:45:29to the sheets
1:45:32yes um what what's happening here where
1:45:36someone's coming in and said something
1:45:37to you and then you're getting up to
1:45:39leave so Leticia had requested to talk
1:45:42to me off camera and the uh police
1:45:45department could not turn the camera off
1:45:47so they had decided to get us a separate
1:45:50room and myself and special agent Cohen
1:45:53we're going to speak with Leticia off
1:45:55camera in this other
1:45:59room and so is there a period of time
1:46:01where the room is just empty while
1:46:03you're off with the defendant in some
1:46:04other room yes okay so we're going to
1:46:06talk about that and so the
1:46:11um I'm going to play it until both of
1:46:14you are out of the room and then we'll
1:46:15pause it
1:46:20again hey the teacher for your request
1:46:22just going to leave that recorder in
1:46:23there and we're going to a room that
1:46:24doesn't
1:46:26record you sure you don't need to go the
1:46:32restro bring this
1:46:36in you anything to
1:46:39eat take your water with you just in
1:46:41case please
1:46:45okay I think
1:46:49it's uh straight yes
1:46:56so uh before we get into this off-
1:46:58camera discussion that you had with the
1:47:00defendant that little portion where she
1:47:02was inside the room by just herself did
1:47:04you see anything in there that caused
1:47:06you concern as to her mental faculties
1:47:09no did she appear to be acting normal to
1:47:10you yes okay this off camera discussion
1:47:15um let's talk about first the just the
1:47:18process that was undertaken here who was
1:47:21involved with it first of all
1:47:24uh well Myrtle Beach arranged for us to
1:47:26have another room to talk with her in I
1:47:29believe chairs were already put out it
1:47:31was a lot bigger room than this one from
1:47:34what I recall and uh myself I introduced
1:47:38uh or I guess special agent Cohen
1:47:40introduced himself and we just sat in
1:47:43the middle of the room to see what she
1:47:45had to say and when you say special
1:47:47agent con you're talking about the guy
1:47:48sitting here that guy yes that
1:47:51guy should we call him that guy from now
1:47:55on uh how long would you say that
1:47:58portion of of your interaction with the
1:47:59defendant lasted I recall about 30 or 40
1:48:03minutes
1:48:04maybe was she talking to you in that
1:48:08room much the same way we've been seeing
1:48:09in this recorded interview yes can you
1:48:12give the jury um some ideas to what that
1:48:15means it was more of needing protection
1:48:19that I
1:48:20recall um the primary things I remember
1:48:23from this was that this person or people
1:48:28that she was uh saying was responsible
1:48:30for gon might have been associated with
1:48:32an app that was on her phone and that Al
1:48:36had wanted Leticia to participate in a
1:48:39threesome and this person that was part
1:48:41of the threesome might be the person
1:48:44responsible for ganon's disappearance
1:48:47when you say um these people is she
1:48:49pointing her finger away from herself
1:48:52saying these people people or is she
1:48:53saying these people that are inside of
1:48:56herself no it's another person or and
1:48:59why I say people is when she's talking
1:49:01to me it sounded like a group so I'm
1:49:03leaving that just kind of open but she
1:49:06was referring to this three sum as like
1:49:08it was another female who was involved
1:49:12that if we find who's in in this app we
1:49:16might find the person who abducted Canon
1:49:19and the when you're saying app you're
1:49:21talking about was she saying an app on a
1:49:24phone that's correct okay and when when
1:49:27we're talking about these other people
1:49:29um just to be very clear she's not well
1:49:33is she saying that these other
1:49:35personalities that are inside of her own
1:49:36self other persons or personalities no
1:49:40okay did she describe in that portion of
1:49:43your interview this off camera uh a
1:49:46different way in which Ganon suffered a
1:49:48head
1:49:49injury yes what was that
1:49:52I believe it was the pushing the beds
1:49:55together okay uh did she describe that
1:49:58has occurring on Saturday night so that
1:50:00would be January 25th
1:50:04yes do you remember um her giving you
1:50:07any description as to her looking at and
1:50:10assessing that
1:50:11injury yes Leticia said she looked at
1:50:13the injury assessed it and said it
1:50:16wasn't uh very egregious did she include
1:50:20specifically that it didn't even need
1:50:21stitches yes
1:50:23did she give a description as to where
1:50:25on the head um that injury
1:50:28occurred I don't recall at this point
1:50:31okay if you saw your report would that
1:50:32refresh your memory yes okay hold on
1:50:35just a
1:50:44second no I'm not seeing it in this
1:50:46particular report so let me come back to
1:50:48that in just a moment um
1:50:53did she talk to you about taking a SIM
1:50:54card from her
1:50:56phone yes what' she say about that yeah
1:50:59I don't remember that either sorry okay
1:51:01well that one is definitely in this
1:51:03report that I've got in my hand right
1:51:04now um before I get to that though were
1:51:08you aware uh from the investigation that
1:51:12her cell phone was seized by El Paso
1:51:14County Sheriff's Office uh on January
1:51:1729th when she tried to leave the
1:51:18sheriff's office during her interview
1:51:20yes um do you know or are you aware of
1:51:24cell phones having SIM cards that are in
1:51:26them correct uh and so her indication
1:51:29that she still had a SIM card from that
1:51:31phone would that be uh factually
1:51:34possible it should not be
1:51:41okay I'm going to show you again it's
1:51:44721 I'm sorry 7219
1:51:58SIM card sections here um this is Page
1:52:01pagination 11- 7220 page three
1:52:07of4 you're
1:52:11done okay did that refresh your memory
1:52:15yes what did she say about the SIM card
1:52:18she said that it was the SIM card she
1:52:21had previously but she haded placed it
1:52:22in her friend's phone
1:52:25okay did she describe getting a bunch of
1:52:28messages then at that time
1:52:32yes was this another distraction in your
1:52:36mind yes it was nothing that we thought
1:52:38was possible I don't even know if the
1:52:41investigation was able to verify it or
1:52:43not because that happened after my
1:52:44involvement okay and then going back to
1:52:48um that head injury issue that we were
1:52:50talking about earlier where I asked if
1:52:52it refresh your memory to see the report
1:52:54I just didn't pick up this one page 1172
1:52:57I may I approach and uh have him review
1:53:00that page
1:53:06or last paragraph on this p
1:53:26okay did that refresh your memory it did
1:53:29uh where did she describe that head
1:53:30injury um that was caused by pushing the
1:53:33beds together occurring on ganon's head
1:53:36she said it was a gash in his left
1:53:38temple did she also give a full
1:53:40assessment of other injuries during this
1:53:42portion no
1:53:44okay was there some discussion here
1:53:47about um Angel and
1:53:49Petco yes what do you remember her
1:53:52saying about
1:53:53that well we discussed Angel
1:53:57later uh on back on camera but uh I
1:54:01remember angel coming up as a result of
1:54:04this app and the threesome that happened
1:54:06is Angel was a female who may have been
1:54:09involved in ganon's disappearance and
1:54:12this Angel is potentially the one that
1:54:15the defendant was suggesting might have
1:54:17been contacted for the threesome issue
1:54:19correct
1:54:26shortly after that portion of the
1:54:27discussion do you come back on camera
1:54:29with the defendant yes all right I'm
1:54:31going to retrieve that page of the
1:54:32report from
1:54:42you and jump to uh the next time that
1:54:46you're in the room which is 3 hours 13
1:54:49minutes and 25 seconds
1:55:03is this um immediately uh after you get
1:55:08out of that separate room that's not
1:55:10recorded you then discuss angel on
1:55:12camera yes is that what we're about to
1:55:15watch here yes okay so I'm going to play
1:55:18uh 3 hours 13 minutes and 25 seconds
1:55:21through three hours 25 minutes and 41
1:55:23seconds judge this is about a 12 minute
1:55:26gap of time so maybe you want Mr gring
1:55:28to step down
1:55:32okay you all
1:55:37right so for this B with the district
1:55:40attorneys and stuff for this protection
1:55:42thing with uh
1:55:45Angel we have to know last
1:55:47name all that stuff how you met I mean I
1:55:51know you say that app and whatever but
1:55:53how else do we identify angel I mean I
1:55:57probably could just reach out like using
1:55:59Snapchat and stuff like that can you
1:56:02describe her yeah what does she look
1:56:04like well she actually kind of looks a
1:56:06lot like me yeah yeah like almost like
1:56:09you know so she's
1:56:11defic so where all have you met
1:56:14her she came to her house sure when did
1:56:17she come to your house were you say in
1:56:19September it was somewhere around
1:56:21September show whatever that she babies
1:56:23had for us and then who did who all did
1:56:26she Babys with or uhuh both kids okay
1:56:32they had a bunch of we had people who
1:56:35like babysitter the neighborhood and
1:56:37friends came over another friend that
1:56:39came over my Thanksgiving that help baby
1:56:42had quite a few people that would help
1:56:44here and there and there was the main
1:56:46babies
1:56:49she so these messages that are coming
1:56:52through to your phone the you know
1:56:55threats or whatever they are are they
1:56:56coming from her so so you can get on a
1:57:00VPN network or something like that
1:57:03follow each out
1:57:06Snapchat I the last Snapchat name that I
1:57:09have what is your Snapchat name I would
1:57:12need to have my phone what do you
1:57:14remember did it have her name in it was
1:57:16it at
1:57:17numbers I just that's why I asked for
1:57:19help but he's not goinging to help so
1:57:29[Music]
1:57:34so so so tell you back what we talked
1:57:37about that I sir I just if I'm not going
1:57:40to get any help then I'll just have to
1:57:43get help
1:57:45otherwise I I trusted you to talk to you
1:57:50well we we went in there I know and and
1:57:53I don't know Leticia if it's just the
1:57:56way you're used to communicating over a
1:57:58long period of time but yeah when when
1:58:01you're asked a question you don't really
1:58:03answer you kind of go in a little circle
1:58:05so if I said
1:58:07like and I said like where did you last
1:58:10see gon and then you said well it's
1:58:11supposed to drop off you know so we're
1:58:14just used to asking you a question and
1:58:17then you tell us an answer it's just you
1:58:19know
1:58:20just I just don't
1:58:23I don't I've always like said talk and
1:58:26whatever just because how I
1:58:32don't so
1:58:35are that's just how you've always done
1:58:38for like the last like 5 10 years I mean
1:58:42most of the time I mean it's nothing
1:58:43like
1:58:45personal I knew thebody was going to
1:58:48help me so
1:58:52like you know it's going to look bad no
1:58:55I'm not that's not what I'm talking
1:58:56about I'm talking about it's going to
1:58:57look like I will one of these bad things
1:59:00with people and I just no it's not even
1:59:02going to look like that yeah here's what
1:59:05it's going to look like is that you were
1:59:06the last one with gon nothing on this
1:59:08Angel thing we can we we can't
1:59:11authenticate any of that when you say
1:59:13it's all off camera like with the black
1:59:15and Pa on the parking lot we have
1:59:17cameras for that whole place and we
1:59:19don't see you me the things well can can
1:59:21you like show you that so that I can
1:59:23show you where what
1:59:25direction but you would know where it is
1:59:28where did you I said what direction
1:59:30because I'm not like I'm not from
1:59:32Colorado I going to show you like on
1:59:34camera or that video that you're talking
1:59:35about my direction like where it would
1:59:37be at so maybe you could pull like if
1:59:39you wanted to pull a camera off another
1:59:41place I mean because there's lots of
1:59:43places you could have pulled a camera
1:59:44off of that's all I'm asking
1:59:49for that's that's offering help
1:59:52yeah it's it's help but Dan goes into
1:59:57this car I mean this is a person that
1:59:59you trust I do that's the thing why am I
2:00:01suppos so then why would you go home and
2:00:04say that he's here that he's now gone
2:00:07away that he's you're leading I never
2:00:09said he was here not going well that you
2:00:11were at he was at the house okay yeah
2:00:14but do you see where I'm going that why
2:00:16why would you make up that story to law
2:00:18enforcement what story that he was going
2:00:22to a friend's house because if her
2:00:25nephew was a
2:00:27friend I mean I don't understand how
2:00:29that's a
2:00:30problem Angel's nephew was a friend oh
2:00:33that's right that they had played
2:00:35together but she was do she live in your
2:00:38area yes where did she
2:00:46live is I'm like constantly it Stu will
2:00:50come through and it will be people
2:00:52sending stuff staying stuff but the
2:00:55people are they different people from
2:00:58Angel I mean are they acting on her
2:01:00behalf because that doesn't sound like a
2:01:01friend me obviously if if they're not
2:01:04helping with your child they're not
2:01:05friend but how do you think that makes
2:01:07them
2:01:09look you know trusting
2:01:12people you see doesn't that makes
2:01:14someone look like they're
2:01:18irresponsible not trusting people
2:01:20trusting someone
2:01:25do you know who tells the story from
2:01:27here on out your
2:01:29story I I asked for help but do you know
2:01:33who tells the story how this works out
2:01:35from here you to could have taking you
2:01:39to do a lot of things you could watch me
2:01:42on my phone do a lot of
2:01:44things there is an angel well just like
2:01:46we found Quincy brown right away we can
2:01:49find Angel but if there's not an Angel
2:01:53that's the last story you're going to
2:01:54tell law enforcement about gon well but
2:01:58I mean we'll be able to get we'll get
2:01:59your warrants for the threes thing
2:02:01whatever else we'll go interview this
2:02:02Angel and if it's like what I think
2:02:04Quincy Brown is okay then Angel's just
2:02:07not trying to help you I will help you
2:02:09okay well I tried I tried to get your
2:02:12help when I gave you the rawest
2:02:14information I tried to get help that you
2:02:16w help me but I think I can help
2:02:20you how is that
2:02:22I hope it'll be find
2:02:24him that's
2:02:27how
2:02:31leaving just did just like they
2:02:34did I'm happy to chase down anything you
2:02:36tell me to you did just
2:02:40likea and I can he said I think that Al
2:02:44left you alone because he's gone to
2:02:47Alaska for so long and then he's on this
2:02:49trip and you're left raising Ganon
2:02:52and something bad happens I don't know
2:02:54if it's your fault or gons it doesn't
2:02:56really matter and you panicked and you
2:02:59ask as was I the person talking for yes
2:03:01I was but I think the closest you came
2:03:05was talking about his head
2:03:07injury and then because you asked out
2:03:10you asked heard I would have no if
2:03:13someone took your sign you would have
2:03:15called I did call you did not call the
2:03:17police yes I did I called the police
2:03:19Petco right when they right when he
2:03:21would St
2:03:22no that's not taken he was supposed to
2:03:24be playing I as soon as he wasn't home I
2:03:27did but you you were supposed to meet
2:03:30her what the next morning no I called
2:03:33immediately when at 6:00 at the time he
2:03:35was supposed to be home I called the
2:03:37police I did and then what did you tell
2:03:40him you already know what I told them
2:03:42yeah but that doesn't make that doesn't
2:03:44make any sense why does it yes because
2:03:47you I told you I have talked to a lot of
2:03:50people that are sitting in the same
2:03:51chair you are right now and I've seen
2:03:54them and and I'm sorry if it offends you
2:03:57if I say story but that's the only way
2:03:59you're coping with this right now coping
2:04:01yes yeah we all cope okay sir how did we
2:04:05them okay I'm not saying you did I'm
2:04:08just saying that you're unwilling to
2:04:09come to the the truth okay because it's
2:04:12going to be painful I gave you the truth
2:04:15I didn't hurt you that's the truth so
2:04:17the last truth you want to tell me just
2:04:18to make sure say anything else is the
2:04:21angel I'm not going to say anything to
2:04:22the because you didn't help me I will
2:04:26help you if you will tell me one
2:04:28concrete way to CL
2:04:30G
2:04:32okaya you're not trying to help me sir
2:04:34yes I am no you're not you're not trying
2:04:39you can be a hero here you can I'm far
2:04:42from a hero but you can be I'm a parent
2:04:45you are parent not hurt a child you're a
2:04:47parent who was left behind to deal with
2:04:50his stepson no
2:04:52it wasn't a problem no it's a problem
2:04:55when something like something like this
2:04:57happens in the house not it was not a
2:04:59problem to take care of our children
2:05:01then what happened that's not a problem
2:05:04that's not a problem at all like for you
2:05:05to say that to someone it's hurtful
2:05:09that's what's hurtful it's not a problem
2:05:11to take care of children it's not a
2:05:13problem to take care of children but bad
2:05:15things happen in the house all the time
2:05:16in how
2:05:19no no no sir from me John no
2:05:25no do you want me to walk through where
2:05:27all the blood was or do you know it
2:05:28already I don't I know for a fact that I
2:05:33did not hurt gon how is your the bottom
2:05:35of your
2:05:36shoe long as I can can live with that
2:05:41and know that God knows I did not hurt
2:05:44Ganon then I'm okay with that well you
2:05:46can convince yourself of that all day
2:05:48okay but sir that's not helping me sir
2:05:51but is there a way for me to help you
2:05:54even if you're trying to convince
2:05:55yourself it didn't happen is there some
2:05:57way for you to say through a third party
2:06:00okay sure whatever you
2:06:03say I mean I don't know what else to
2:06:06tell you but I did not hurt
2:06:08G did
2:06:10not then you won't tell me who did would
2:06:13not all that blood would not be in the
2:06:15house if Angel just met him at a Petco
2:06:18it's not P you're like that's that's far
2:06:22beyond what you're even talking about
2:06:24what is far beyond there's like many of
2:06:27times we've had blood in our house do
2:06:29you remember the spray that was on the
2:06:31wall I mean goodness gracious I I've
2:06:34seen the markers from the spray the
2:06:36spray went from the bed all the way up
2:06:39here well you had to clean it up smear
2:06:42no it's not a smear all right whatever
2:06:45it's a spray all right sir I don't know
2:06:47what you're talking about spray I don't
2:06:49know what that means it's called spatter
2:06:51I don't I I don't know anything about
2:06:53that so it comes from aspirated you're
2:06:55going to hear all this anyway so I'll
2:06:57tell you it comes from aspirated blood
2:07:00do you know what that means no it means
2:07:02that he didn't accidentally do it
2:07:05okay okay whatever so that's what we
2:07:08were waiting on for the warrants because
2:07:11somebody struck gon in the bed in the no
2:07:15if someone if someone struck gon in the
2:07:18bed God we're we were all drugs then if
2:07:22that's what if that's what you're saying
2:07:23happen that's what the blood God we were
2:07:26all
2:07:29drugged well then can you tell me how
2:07:31that blood got on the wall sir that's
2:07:32gon's Blood on the wall okay well I
2:07:35guess sir if you think you have all the
2:07:36answers then you're making the guess I'm
2:07:38not I'm not you've got the answer I'm
2:07:40not making a guess sir I just I'm I'm
2:07:42going to be respectful to you because
2:07:44you offered to help me you didn't help
2:07:46me so I'm I'm just going to sit here
2:07:54so we've got it paused at 3 hours 25
2:07:56minutes and 41
2:07:59seconds Mr grusing um this continuation
2:08:03of the discussion about angel was there
2:08:05any indication in the investigation that
2:08:07somebody by the name of Angel was
2:08:08involved in G's disappearance no uh at
2:08:12the beginning when you asked her for her
2:08:15being the defendant for a description of
2:08:17Angel what did she say she said that
2:08:19angel looks a lot like herself
2:08:26you remember the um defendant saying
2:08:28that she had no motive to do this yes um
2:08:31we're we're going to play that next it's
2:08:333 hours 26 minutes through 3 hours 34
2:08:38minutes uh so about eight minutes judge
2:08:40I don't know if you want him to stay up
2:08:41for eight minutes or not on the stand or
2:08:44not um give me just a minute okay
2:08:50me um he can it's up you Mr gring if you
2:08:54want to stay there for the8 minutes
2:08:59or he's got a step schull I
2:09:06think if someone presents us with
2:09:08evidence then we just follow the
2:09:10evidence okay right now you're the last
2:09:12person with Canon then I don't do bad
2:09:16things to people I don't I don't think
2:09:19you do bad things to people I don't do
2:09:21bad things to anyone and I didn't do
2:09:23anything bad to gon I think something
2:09:25bad happened to gon and I don't know of
2:09:27a way to get you to tell me about it I
2:09:29tried through Al to get you to tell me
2:09:32about it we've tried here okay you came
2:09:35and I think what I think you have a
2:09:37defense
2:09:38mechanism and I think your defense
2:09:40mechanism was you need to go into
2:09:42another room you tell
2:09:44us no defense mechanism I trusted you to
2:09:49talk to you cuz I thought you if you
2:09:50trusted me to talk to me you would tell
2:09:52me where Ganon is right now I don't know
2:09:55where gon is you do you know where he
2:09:57last was and it wasn't at the code okay
2:10:00then you can't make me guess that's not
2:10:02fair to me why would I keep if you're
2:10:05not going to help me you tell me how to
2:10:07help you I already
2:10:10did I already did tell you I told you
2:10:14how you could help and nobody holds a
2:10:17kid like that okay okay that's what you
2:10:19think no it's I'm just saying okay if
2:10:23the sun comes up in the morning it goes
2:10:24down at night every day we have worked
2:10:27hundreds of these things that's what you
2:10:29think
2:10:30okay me talking to you is not going to
2:10:34do anything else because all you're
2:10:36going to do is go think that you're
2:10:40going to get me to say something that I
2:10:42did that I didn't do that is not what I
2:10:43want because I did not do anything to
2:10:46gon why would I hurt our child at
2:10:51everything in the
2:10:53world why I have no motive
2:10:57none don't have the first motive
2:10:59everything I wanted in my life I had it
2:11:05why doesn't make any sense it doesn't
2:11:07make sense a lot of the time what
2:11:09happens inside of a
2:11:10house I sir I don't even know what
2:11:12you're talking about I all I can tell
2:11:15you is I do not
2:11:18hurt have no reason to in fact to go on
2:11:22the record I had a way better
2:11:24relationship with gon than I did with
2:11:26Lena way
2:11:30better because we were so much alike we
2:11:32we always like the same things we always
2:11:35have problems with our stomach we always
2:11:37do all these things do you know that
2:11:40there's almost a correlation sometimes
2:11:42between how much you get along with
2:11:43someone and
2:11:46how bad things happen in the house I'm
2:11:48telling you that teach I don't well
2:11:51maybe bad things happen in your house
2:11:52they happen they happen in the house a
2:11:54lot more than they do out in public
2:11:55maybe bad things happen in your
2:11:59house do you would it help if we showed
2:12:02you pictures of what we saw on the wall
2:12:04and by the
2:12:07bed when you say nothing bad happened
2:12:10you can't get around yes Al but we did
2:12:14not show Al that on purpose he had to
2:12:15come get stuff out of the house and he
2:12:17looked and saw the blood pool was about
2:12:20this big on the concrete
2:12:23okay that is not from a little gash like
2:12:26that okay and then what and then you
2:12:27showed this to him or how did he see
2:12:30this he had to come get stuff out of the
2:12:31house I wasn't even there that day after
2:12:34you allowed people to stay in this house
2:12:36for a week I did not allow anybody to do
2:12:38anything someone did okay well that's
2:12:40not my fault okay so so what I'm saying
2:12:43though is the wounds that you're
2:12:44describing to him even when you're
2:12:46saying it doesn't sir I'm tell you now
2:12:49when you say the head thing was Saturday
2:12:51but what I tell you now is people were
2:12:54inside of a home living and it was not
2:12:57me so maybe maybe you can talk to
2:13:01whoever allowed people to live in the
2:13:04home okay for whatever you're saying
2:13:07that was done extra or whatever maybe
2:13:10you can talk to those people who were
2:13:12allowed to stay in a home during this
2:13:15supposedly
2:13:17okay that's what I think maybe you can
2:13:20talk to people
2:13:21who were you're saying that the injury
2:13:25Happ I'm not saying anything except I
2:13:27know you're telling me this stuff you're
2:13:30saying this about oh how bad these were
2:13:32and these things were all I can tell you
2:13:34is maybe you can talk to the people that
2:13:36were allowed to stay in the home during
2:13:39this time during this time that you have
2:13:41this supposed evidence people that were
2:13:44allowed to stay in the home and people
2:13:46that were allowed to walk in and out to
2:13:47see it supposedly Okay so Canon was in
2:13:52all these wounds happened after he went
2:13:54I'm not saying anything other than sir
2:13:57you are you are telling me you just sit
2:13:59here on record and telling me that
2:14:02Albert went inside somewhere that you
2:14:04were supposed to have as a supposed
2:14:05crime scene I wasn't there for that if
2:14:08you want I get an answer for you about
2:14:10who was with him I'm that's not what I'm
2:14:12asking you I'm saying for you you as a
2:14:14professional you would have allowed that
2:14:16supposedly if he has to go get stuff yes
2:14:20yeah I'm sure that's as long as the
2:14:22scene have been processed okay processed
2:14:24sure okay I'm sure that's how I'm sure
2:14:28that's how it works in this country
2:14:29doesn't it sound a little bit weird to
2:14:31you if the scene has been processed no I
2:14:34had a girl that was burned alive in a
2:14:35house and biley we process the scene was
2:14:38processed supposedly when people were
2:14:41still there day one day two day three
2:14:42and the scene was processed day four day
2:14:44five they
2:14:46six and the scene was processed you're
2:14:49saying that people were going in and out
2:14:50of the house civilians while they were
2:14:52processing the scene I'm I'm asking you
2:14:53that because apparently you you said the
2:14:56scene was processed and then there's you
2:14:58want me to talk to you when I know that
2:15:00how Shady that whole situation is and
2:15:04you want me to give you answers for how
2:15:06Shady that
2:15:07is so you need to tell me in the scene
2:15:10that was processed day one day two day
2:15:11three day four there was nobody going in
2:15:13out there was people living there right
2:15:15okay when they thought gon was still
2:15:17alive okay living there okay but you're
2:15:19stay in the sc's process because you not
2:15:22you but people surely were there it's
2:15:26all on camera that there was crime scen
2:15:29people there while people were living
2:15:31there of course because they didn't know
2:15:33the severity of the scene they just
2:15:34thought genon was a ran away like you
2:15:37said to go see a neighbor so the point
2:15:39is how am I supposed to put my trust in
2:15:42faith in any bit of this system like
2:15:44that when that was going on
2:15:48how so you're trying to put Faith in
2:15:51system where you inform I'm talking to
2:15:54you I'm saying if you would have told
2:15:56police the very first night that he was
2:15:59taken forcibly everything would have
2:16:01been different that's not forcibly okay
2:16:04I said exactly what I said which was he
2:16:06didn't come back at
2:16:076:00 if you would have said other people
2:16:10have him and they should not have him it
2:16:12would have been
2:16:14different you controlled the way that
2:16:16law enforcement responded I did so now
2:16:19it's my fault that they gu by saying
2:16:22he's going walking over with a friend
2:16:24had people in there doing a supposed
2:16:26crime scene and now you have all this
2:16:28stuff have you let people live there and
2:16:30now you want to look at me and say
2:16:32something sir I did not hurt gon okay
2:16:37okay well who did did not who did did
2:16:39not just like all other things why why
2:16:42are you telling me you did not I don't
2:16:43care if you did or not I'm just telling
2:16:45you yes you do care your father you
2:16:47would care I care about gon I don't care
2:16:50if you did it or not sir I didn't okay
2:16:53but you're saying you didn't but that
2:16:54doesn't help us find you okay well I
2:16:56didn't do it I didn't do anything I
2:16:59would not have no motive no reason
2:17:02asking you about Reas our child no
2:17:05reason who did no reason no
2:17:10reason Mr grusing um at the beginning
2:17:13you talked to or made a statement about
2:17:15a defense mechanism going into the other
2:17:17room what was the purpose of you saying
2:17:18that
2:17:22well defense mechanism or misdirection I
2:17:25was trying to you know phone in on what
2:17:27happened that day and neither I nor
2:17:32special agent Cohen found her story
2:17:34about angel to be
2:17:41credible this tangent that were that we
2:17:44just witnessed happening where um you're
2:17:46trying to get her to give who hurt Ganon
2:17:49right that challenge of that and then
2:17:51she's talking about the scene instead
2:17:54what was your impression of
2:17:56that it was another yet another um
2:18:00attempt
2:18:01to knock me off my line of questioning
2:18:04another misdirection as you can see
2:18:07she's very effective at doing it and
2:18:12uh I was telling her that the whole
2:18:14reason that law enforcement responded
2:18:17like they did was based on her initial
2:18:19report but as she continues to talk over
2:18:22me and saying that because of the way
2:18:25she created Ganon just being at a
2:18:27friend's house now that is a problem
2:18:29it's it's yet another big hurdle that
2:18:31I've got to overcome to get to what
2:18:33happened again in that last clip that we
2:18:36played where it's the discussion about
2:18:37angel did in some respects did she
2:18:39actually revert back to Ganon is with a
2:18:41friend and didn't come home on time yes
2:18:44so reverting back to the very original
2:18:45story that she told the police on
2:18:47January 27th
2:18:49right uh
2:18:51that statement that she makes in this
2:18:53particular portion uh she likes Ganon
2:18:55way more than El than Elena you remember
2:18:58that yes uh when you went through those
2:19:00searches with her earlier in the
2:19:02interview did you find any or did you
2:19:04recount any searches I should say um to
2:19:07the defendant about uh involving
2:19:09stepdaughters or Lena specifically no uh
2:19:13in fact um you read to her some of those
2:19:16searches one of them I don't like my
2:19:17stepson correct I don't like my stepson
2:19:20should I get a divorce
2:19:26yes did you ask her um after this
2:19:29portion of the discussion about Quincy
2:19:31and Eduardo in the mountains I did what
2:19:34were you trying to get to
2:19:37there well as you could see with this
2:19:40story it didn't take her long to get off
2:19:42of Angel and then divert to other people
2:19:44being in the house and I wanted to just
2:19:47address the other stories yet again and
2:19:50again where we are at this point is
2:19:52still trying to find clues about where
2:19:54Ganon is uh and I had already explained
2:19:58to her that I think the closest she came
2:20:00to describing ganon's injuries was uh
2:20:03when she spoke about Quincy Brown so I
2:20:05decided to go back there and give that a
2:20:07try what do you mean by that that the
2:20:09closest she was to describing uh ganon's
2:20:12true injuries was when she was talking
2:20:14about um Quincy Brown tell me what
2:20:16you're talking about well I never saw
2:20:18the full autopsy uh and
2:20:21to of what happened again and I only
2:20:22heard about it secondhand but when she
2:20:24was describing uh the head the the hands
2:20:28the knees and the blood pouring that's
2:20:31that's the most descriptive uh she had
2:20:33she had come with us with with us
2:20:35meaning investigative team even
2:20:37including here so that was the the most
2:20:40descriptive as far as any potential
2:20:42injuries that she was willing to tell
2:20:44the investigation
2:20:48correct so we're at 3 hours 3 34 minutes
2:20:51and 50 seconds we're going to play a 5
2:20:52minute clip uh three two 3 hours 39
2:20:56minutes and 50
2:20:59seconds if you give me another name I
2:21:02will chase that
2:21:03person you've tried you tried Eduardo in
2:21:06the house you tried Quincy Brown up in
2:21:08the mountains now you've tried angel I
2:21:10never say anything about a mountain yes
2:21:13you did you're were supposed to ride a
2:21:14bike up there in the mountains with
2:21:16Quincy
2:21:17brown but I never told you that
2:21:21you were you said you knew I was in the
2:21:23room I didn't say I knew you I don't
2:21:25even know who you were FBI never know
2:21:27who you were I said didn't never say FBI
2:21:29either it's not what I said law
2:21:31enforcement no I said I know someone is
2:21:33listening that's my God to be us okay no
2:21:36it could have been anybody that's fine I
2:21:38don't I don't need to exactly there's no
2:21:40there's no point of arguing that you're
2:21:42not going to help me
2:21:44so I think you could control this story
2:21:47by always controlling well you you are
2:21:51what other people I've been completely
2:21:54respectful to you and I have talked to
2:21:56you I've been respectful to you been
2:21:59kind to
2:22:00you I did all these things to you cuz
2:22:03that was just that's who I am s's raised
2:22:06wasn't raised to be bad people I don't
2:22:08think you're a bad
2:22:09person but I think bad things happen all
2:22:12the time I've seen it why bad things
2:22:14have to happen because 11-year-old boy
2:22:16is not home and he's not hanging out
2:22:19with somebody okay
2:22:21okay I'm glad that you think something
2:22:24so bad happens all the time I'm sorry
2:22:27that you have to have this uh shielded
2:22:30up of nothing but no compassion and all
2:22:34that I'm sorry for that I really am but
2:22:38I have no reason no
2:22:41reason
2:22:43none to hurt anyone in my family none
2:22:47none can you tell me why there's blood
2:22:50on the your
2:22:51shoes what shoes the shoes they were
2:22:54covered in the garage in the garage or
2:22:57in the top of the washer or
2:23:00something people were did you think I
2:23:02didn't walk around in
2:23:03shoes Canon splot on the bottom what
2:23:06they that got to do with anything I've
2:23:08already told you we were outside
2:23:10unloading stuff what if that got to do
2:23:13with anything we are outside unloading
2:23:15my
2:23:16car I mean come
2:23:18on that doesn't that doesn't mean
2:23:21somebody's this bad person and done
2:23:23something wrong that doesn't mean that
2:23:25sir at
2:23:27all nothing like
2:23:30that to hurt gon innocent loving help me
2:23:35out more than any person in the
2:23:39household more than
2:23:41Albert more than anyone help me I'm
2:23:45saying g a bad kid no help me do you
2:23:48know how much you'll be helping me with
2:23:50everything pulling everybody else's
2:23:52slack who did it gon yeah and I think
2:23:55that's why this is so
2:23:57hard you're right it's hard you're right
2:24:02it's hard because I didn't
2:24:04hurt that's why it's
2:24:07hard to to not have him helping me that
2:24:10is hard
2:24:11too very
2:24:13hard knowing that right now sitting at
2:24:17home again and knowing the situation you
2:24:20know what G would do he would wait on me
2:24:23anything I would ask him just to make
2:24:25sure I was
2:24:27okay anything think I wouldn't doubt
2:24:29that oh he would before even Albert
2:24:32would even do it he
2:24:37would if he was sitting here right now
2:24:40and needed anything from me to ask him
2:24:42to do anything he would
2:24:46do so there's no there's no intention
2:24:51reasoning nothing for G nothing to hurt
2:24:55him in any kind of way none nada you did
2:24:58say on the phone calls there was no
2:24:59premeditation
2:25:02involved you said I I mean I was saying
2:25:05to Albert like he was if you talking
2:25:07about when Albert was asking me that I
2:25:09was simply saying you were trying to get
2:25:11him or whoever was trying to get him to
2:25:12walk me down some pathway of whatever it
2:25:16may be whatever that may be come on sir
2:25:20I don't didn't wake up and be like Oh My
2:25:24Life changed today that's not how it
2:25:25works in life bad people whether you say
2:25:30do this or do that or do that or do this
2:25:33they just do bad things to people it's
2:25:35not necessarily true okay well I told
2:25:37you good people do bad things I've seen
2:25:40it are you a good person yes and you do
2:25:43bad things mhm
2:25:44okay yeah but
2:25:48you if you had any key to telling us
2:25:51where gon is you would tell it to us if
2:25:54you were a good
2:25:55person would you
2:25:59not and so
2:26:01you so pausing it now at um 3 hours 39
2:26:05minutes and 50
2:26:07seconds at the very beginning of this uh
2:26:11you said if you give me another name
2:26:12we'll chase that down have you ever
2:26:15tried to go back and count on the number
2:26:17of different versions of stories this
2:26:19defendant gave during the pendency of
2:26:21this investigation no
2:26:24not is it too many to count I just
2:26:27haven't sat down and done it it's quite
2:26:29a few um and then variations of maybe
2:26:33like the Quincy Brown story has
2:26:35different branches of that story correct
2:26:38uh the um Eduardo story has different
2:26:40branches on that story yes the Ganon was
2:26:44playing with a friend and didn't come
2:26:45home are there different branches to
2:26:47that story yes uh and then we get the
2:26:50pregnant woman with a money in her belly
2:26:53story different story
2:26:56right uh why did you tell her you don't
2:26:58think you're a bad person what was the
2:27:00purpose of
2:27:02that it's hard to get someone to talk
2:27:05about something bad if they think the
2:27:08person talking to them already thinks
2:27:10they're
2:27:12bad were you hoping that she would that
2:27:14would maybe loosen her up and she would
2:27:16give you some
2:27:17information well and yeah I I
2:27:22think she did not intend for this
2:27:25whatever the awful thing was that
2:27:27happened to Ganon to happen that's what
2:27:30you were trying to get her to correct
2:27:31believe you were thinking yes okay were
2:27:33you actually thinking that yeah we
2:27:36didn't I didn't know how all this
2:27:38started as far as uh I was only taking
2:27:41my role in this investigation I was not
2:27:43the case agent uh my role was just to
2:27:46speak with Leticia take in as many facts
2:27:48as I could for these interviews and so I
2:27:51was taking in what she was saying and
2:27:54she was putting it back again to me with
2:27:56the foot injury on Saturday and now a
2:27:59head injury on Saturday so we've got a
2:28:02progression of things happening and I
2:28:04was just Gathering from her what I can
2:28:06and passing it on to the investigative
2:28:08team when you said those things um you
2:28:11obviously didn't have ganon's body had
2:28:13not been recovered yet that's correct
2:28:15hadn't heard anything about an autopsy
2:28:17and the number of injuries that he had
2:28:19suffered yes
2:28:21okay do you remember asking her um right
2:28:25after this clip that we just saw about
2:28:27where did you last see Ganon yes why why
2:28:31did you want to go down that
2:28:34path and my experience uh especially if
2:28:39you have a close relationship with
2:28:41someone who has disappeared you are
2:28:43clearly able to articulate the last time
2:28:45that you saw that person and so far in
2:28:48the phone calls with Al and even with my
2:28:51time she has not said what that very
2:28:54last sighting of him
2:28:56was okay we're going to jump to that
2:28:59section now 3 hours 40 minutes and 59
2:29:05seconds and we're going to play it
2:29:07through three hours 45 minutes and 5
2:29:10Seconds yes your argument isn't going to
2:29:12work with Tia argument about what your
2:29:14argument that somebody took him you're
2:29:17not going to be able to tell that story
2:29:19okay you help us today find out where
2:29:22Ganon is if you could cuz I'm I have
2:29:24100% confidence that you can tell me
2:29:27exactly where you last left gon okay now
2:29:30you're accusing me I'm just telling you
2:29:32what the research shows what our
2:29:34investigation shows I'm glad you have
2:29:38research
2:29:39so you look it will look much better for
2:29:43you I didn't do anything so what do you
2:29:45want me to look better at I didn't do
2:29:48anything are you going to tell me right
2:29:49now that the last place you saw Ganon
2:29:51was really him getting into an sir I'm
2:29:54not going to say anything because you're
2:29:56not trying to help me finding gon would
2:30:00help you oh yeah I know don't you think
2:30:03that then tell me where don't you think
2:30:05that don't you I know it really don't
2:30:08think that so tell me where he is and
2:30:10let me help you I don't know where he is
2:30:14where did you last see him I'm not sir
2:30:17I'm not you Pro that you were not going
2:30:19to help me okay you
2:30:22did he proved you were not going to help
2:30:24me if you tell me where you I saw him I
2:30:26can help
2:30:29you I promise you that Leticia I don't
2:30:32get it then her
2:30:34gon I mean I don't know how to like
2:30:37write that out say it in 10 different
2:30:39languages so so what do you want me to
2:30:41say you didn't hurt Ganon did you kill
2:30:42gon
2:30:44no no did you put Ganon somewhere no you
2:30:49didn't put him in dumpster oh dumpster
2:30:53why are you even saying these bad
2:30:54horrible things because we've been
2:30:56tracking your car we've been tracking
2:30:58even when your phone is off it can be
2:30:59tracked good sir I'm glad and so we've
2:31:02we've been going through dumpsters all
2:31:05through is Ganon in a dumpster sir you
2:31:09can go through just please that would
2:31:12save us sir that would save us hundreds
2:31:14of days just tell me if he's in a d
2:31:17anything to be in okay that's fine but
2:31:19will you tell me if he's in a dumpster I
2:31:22if I didn't do anything to him how am I
2:31:24answering that question for you whether
2:31:25it's angel or whoever else how am I
2:31:27answering this question for you really
2:31:29you s to a parent and ask them
2:31:33that because because we want to find him
2:31:36I would not ask you that question if it
2:31:38wouldn't help us find anything to the
2:31:40end
2:31:42nothing
2:31:43okay didn't hurt harm kill nothing to
2:31:48gain
2:31:49did not would not where's the last place
2:31:53you saw him sir you've already asked me
2:31:55all these questions I know but that's an
2:31:56easy question the last place you saw gon
2:31:59which can really help us find him so why
2:32:02would you not say that if you had
2:32:03nothing because I've already tried to
2:32:05help you no but if you had nothing to do
2:32:07if you did not hurt harm anything why
2:32:10would you not tell me the last place you
2:32:12saw him okay because it's a Memory you
2:32:14don't want to look at memory yes I would
2:32:17think it's a Memory okay Canon's been
2:32:19missing now for how many days you know
2:32:21when you last saw him but you won't tell
2:32:23the one agency that confined him you
2:32:26already said you already basically lost
2:32:30my whole ability that's not a true story
2:32:32that's worse than Quincy Brown all right
2:32:34okay what about the pregnant lady with
2:32:35the money in her stomach sir okay
2:32:38Leticia tell me the last place you saw
2:32:41him and we can find gon and you can that
2:32:44will help you so much in this case yes
2:32:47it
2:32:48will what do you is going to help you
2:32:50now if I walk out of here and we haven't
2:32:53got a lead on how to find gon okay all
2:32:56you've got is the story of the stuff on
2:32:58the wall you've got the blood you've got
2:33:00blood all over the house you got blood
2:33:02on the bottom of your shoes okay and
2:33:04you've got about seven lies okay if you
2:33:07help us find gon that will help you
2:33:10tremendously and yet you won't tell me
2:33:14why is you're not going to help me yes I
2:33:16will I've just so we've got it now
2:33:19paused at the end that section 3 hours
2:33:2145 minutes and 5 Seconds why'd you throw
2:33:23out the
2:33:24dumpster there had been searches and
2:33:27dumpsters and at that point since we had
2:33:30no leads I was hoping maybe she could at
2:33:33least I was being truthful there saying
2:33:36can you at least narrow our world on
2:33:39what we're searching at this point
2:33:41because we didn't have a lead on where
2:33:43Ganon
2:33:44was just and you were just trying to get
2:33:46that from her at that particular Point
2:33:48yes do you remember U going from from
2:33:51that discussion into asking her about
2:33:53any mental health issues that she was
2:33:54dealing with yes I believe I asked her a
2:33:57second time after asking her initially
2:34:00right and so that's what we're going to
2:34:01get into next and that's at time stamp 3
2:34:04hours 50 minutes and 20 seconds and it
2:34:07lasts for almost two minutes so it goes
2:34:09to 3 hours 52 minutes and 18
2:34:12seconds I am not the one not the
2:34:17one do you know if why I asked you ahead
2:34:19of time if you're having anxiety or
2:34:22depression or stuff like that it's just
2:34:25don't matter what you ask me about
2:34:26anxiety or depression or you know any of
2:34:29those things because to be honest with
2:34:32you that's it that's
2:34:36all so have you been you said gon's been
2:34:39seeing counselors have you been seeing
2:34:40counselors right about teachings one
2:34:43time and maybe she did it too because
2:34:45she was going to give the emotional
2:34:46support
2:34:48animals that's said
2:34:50yeah it was the two times on base and we
2:34:54talked about not wanting to be in teing
2:34:57anymore and all that route stress on the
2:35:00job that was what we talked about you
2:35:03had searched a little bit on the suicide
2:35:05stuff what suicide stuff or was that you
2:35:09or was that just random
2:35:14keystrokes
2:35:17suicide no one even like I don't even
2:35:20like have you ever thought about
2:35:22suicide who you I'm not thinking about
2:35:25suicide I'm just
2:35:27asking quotes a suicidal person might
2:35:30say that's what I was looking at yeah
2:35:32because I have someone in my family
2:35:34before that I that had said that to me
2:35:36and I've looked up information but
2:35:37that's not you
2:35:39okay
2:35:42wow how do you have things in their
2:35:44family go on too you know that you maybe
2:35:46want to look up and be like oh this is
2:35:50going on in their life I wonder how
2:35:51they're dealing with
2:35:57this you need something
2:36:00eat no can I make a phone call
2:36:11ask
2:36:13so when you're um asking her about any
2:36:16mental health issues um did she indicate
2:36:21basically only two times yes and and
2:36:24what was the reason that she was seeing
2:36:26this counselor counseling on the base
2:36:28regarding her teaching I believe
2:36:31okay when you left the room here um what
2:36:35what were you
2:36:36doing uh I believe she asked if she want
2:36:39if she could make a phone call and plus
2:36:41I wanted to check with our team so I
2:36:43wanted to see you know what was going on
2:36:45with them okay when you came back in the
2:36:48room did you start to ask her about
2:36:50uh the board that was found with blood
2:36:51on it yes okay we're going to jump to
2:36:54that so we're at 355 in0 seconds um that
2:37:00period of time in between so when we
2:37:02stopped at 35218 till when you're about
2:37:05to come back in the room at 3:55 and 0
2:37:07seconds uh was she just in the room by
2:37:10herself yes was she acting normal yes
2:37:14any concerning behavior from her no
2:37:17we're going to start start it at 3:15 5
2:37:20and go through uh 4 hours 6 minutes and
2:37:2311 seconds so a little over 11
2:37:35minutes any restroom or
2:37:37anything the
2:37:39tshir I just wanted to call the see that
2:37:42Harley got home she did yeah they talked
2:37:46with Harley they' talked with uh Dee
2:37:49they talk with Laura they search waren
2:37:51set Laura's house de's house your
2:37:55van I think that's it so yeah they they
2:37:58got
2:38:05back harle with Dei yeah cuz I told them
2:38:09that you you know I met you out of the
2:38:10car and you said you like Dei to be the
2:38:13guardian in between times but it
2:38:15okay well
2:38:17um what why are you in their house I
2:38:21mean because youd stayed there I mean
2:38:23I'm saying like they're not in trouble
2:38:24are they no neither one nor D are in
2:38:38trouble am I asking you stuff the wrong
2:38:40way to teach you I no I'm not I do want
2:38:44to help and and whether you did this or
2:38:46not it doesn't matter to me all the
2:38:49reason they asked me is to come help
2:38:52find what happened
2:38:53again and if I can't get
2:38:56past if I can't prove a story whether
2:38:58you tell it to me Al tells it to me
2:39:00whether it's El pasor sheriff's office
2:39:02again I I don't take anything true until
2:39:06I can prove
2:39:10it with all the evidence that they have
2:39:13the reason why it took so long is the
2:39:16district attorney wanted to wait and
2:39:17wait and wait till they made sure they
2:39:19could win in the courtroom okay and I've
2:39:23done nobody homicides before they have
2:39:26more on this case than we do on most of
2:39:28them okay
2:39:30sir I don't want you to be the the way
2:39:33you can help yourself out of this thing
2:39:36is to give us something even though it's
2:39:38very you just said you have what you
2:39:40need so why why do you need to keep
2:39:42asking me because you were the last one
2:39:45with you know but if you have what you
2:39:47need why do you keep asking me because
2:39:49our goal goal is to find gon our goal is
2:39:51not to prosecute you that is the
2:39:53District Attorney's job we're
2:39:55investigators and like you like you've
2:39:57just seen I do a poor job about half the
2:39:59time because I have to guess because as
2:40:02much as we tried to track you with your
2:40:05cars and your phones and whatever else
2:40:07there are
2:40:08gaps we do have like I told you the
2:40:11blood in the house we do have the blood
2:40:13on we have do you know about the board
2:40:17that was thrown in the forest
2:40:22MAA
2:40:24H what I'm sorry sir what the board that
2:40:28has gon blood on it that was thrown in
2:40:30the forest okay so I all right so what
2:40:33got your DNA on it okay but then how do
2:40:36you explain stuff like that and then
2:40:38turn around and say but but then turn
2:40:40around and say I don't know sir I lived
2:40:42in the house with Ganon I was ganon's
2:40:46main
2:40:47caretaker I wouldn't be surprised
2:40:50if everything I done didn't involve gon
2:40:53like oh okay well you brushed his hair
2:40:56oh okay you brush your Ste
2:40:59whatever but that board was from the
2:41:02house and then it's up on by Highway 105
2:41:05bed from the house I've already
2:41:07explained to you about any kind of stuff
2:41:09that would have been from the foot I've
2:41:11already told you that and I don't know
2:41:12what you but didn't go throw it up there
2:41:16throw okay so now someone threw it up
2:41:17there
2:41:19so now someone threw it a dropped or
2:41:21whatever how did that board get up there
2:41:23sure now you're going on about four I'm
2:41:27and Albert already called about this
2:41:29board you were there right yes and the
2:41:31sock and all this stuff right sock had
2:41:34nothing to do with okay but yeah he said
2:41:36a sock but he did say a sock right but
2:41:38the board is true sir the board was
2:41:41right where your T1 was Sir pigan yeah
2:41:46gosh yeah cuz we tracked it I you could
2:41:49have gotten all that from me easily all
2:41:51you do is log into the app it's not a
2:41:53difficult
2:41:54thing like right but if you track from
2:41:57where your te went and you look at where
2:41:59that now okay so this is why it's so
2:42:04like backwards so now my tigan but I was
2:42:09driving a truck and then now my TIG on
2:42:11and now I mean next and you tried on the
2:42:13Ral card but then no you had three
2:42:17different cars there's proof on the Ral
2:42:18card I even get to drive it so I right
2:42:22there's low mileage on but we don't know
2:42:24where you went cuz you had your phone
2:42:26off my phone off I had my watch on yeah
2:42:29but you had your phone but the but the
2:42:30watch but the watch is up in the forest
2:42:32somewhere isn't it no the watch ain't in
2:42:34the forest you guys have my watch it's
2:42:36at El Paso Detention
2:42:38Center that's the watch there I thought
2:42:40you had an eyew watch that is that's
2:42:42where the watch was that okay well I
2:42:46haven't heard anything about from find
2:42:47my watch says it's clearly sitting in il
2:42:50Paso County
2:42:51okay but your phone was off those couple
2:42:54of days what couple of days the
2:42:57207th it was off when you were at
2:43:01between the
2:43:02Petco but I had my watch on right but
2:43:06what I'm saying watch tells you where
2:43:08you go I mean it's
2:43:11mirrored yeah but I'm telling you we
2:43:13have holes in our
2:43:15investigation and you can help us with
2:43:18that s right
2:43:22I didn't even drive my car anywhere
2:43:25really other than just going to meet
2:43:28friends you throw the on up there that's
2:43:31other than to beet friends yes so who
2:43:33were you meeting up there what friends
2:43:36that can be a lead we can help find gon
2:43:38with you you guys already know all my
2:43:40friends so maybe no we don't know those
2:43:42up there should be the ones that you you
2:43:44really know we don't know the ones up
2:43:46there I guarantee you and like the guy
2:43:48said oh it's higher pressure and all
2:43:50this then you would have saw her if I
2:43:52stopped anywhere or done whatever come
2:43:55on now sir why can't you tell me though
2:43:57instead of you want me to give you like
2:44:00I've already had to tell you everything
2:44:02personal about her life you have
2:44:04everything personal I don't have where
2:44:05you what friends you saw up there on 105
2:44:08where that board is what look I'm not
2:44:11going to admit to any kind of board I'm
2:44:12not saying you need to I'm just saying
2:44:14tell me who your friends are up there
2:44:15and we can go talk to and my TIG line
2:44:18wasn't even driven that way until okay
2:44:20so maybe it was the I don't
2:44:22later how much later I don't even know
2:44:26before before they took it okay so was
2:44:28the truck up there truck up where up
2:44:32that 105
2:44:34area I was going to Castle Rock I've
2:44:37already said this I was going to Castle
2:44:40already said this but is that where the
2:44:43board was it was in the back I don't
2:44:45know where the board was at because I
2:44:46don't know I really don't know that's
2:44:48took your asking me a question that I
2:44:50really don't know but we have a board
2:44:52out there where you were driving okay
2:44:54with gon's blood on it with your DNA on
2:44:56it okay so so my DNA which would be what
2:45:00skin cells okay my skin cells which I
2:45:02live in a home if that's what you're
2:45:04telling me cor yeah and I've already
2:45:06told you that there was all this wood in
2:45:10the garage but you never told me that
2:45:12you took a piece out of the truck and
2:45:14flung it up there what or put it or
2:45:17flung it and and again te I think you
2:45:19get mad when I I say a verb or something
2:45:22where whether you placed it flung it
2:45:24dropped it hit it I don't know but all I
2:45:28know is that our FBI evidence Response
2:45:30Team recovered it
2:45:33okay did you check everybody else in the
2:45:35house as far as for their DNA no not the
2:45:38DNA to see if they put it there cuz you
2:45:40remember these are the people that were
2:45:41in the
2:45:42house when I wasn't allowed when I
2:45:44wasn't there did you check all them the
2:45:47people in the house yeah did you check
2:45:49the people in the house since you mean
2:45:50the crime scene people no I'm meaning
2:45:52the people that you I'm sorry phrase
2:45:55that cuz you don't like you that that
2:45:57was allowed to stay there when all this
2:45:59stuff you're talking about would have
2:46:01been there okay correct did you check
2:46:04all these people as far as their DNA no
2:46:06did did you check to see if any of them
2:46:08did this drove and threw that wood up
2:46:11there did you check them their GPS their
2:46:15phone no no no no no did did you check
2:46:17them because that is completely doesn't
2:46:19matter you so you need to tell me you
2:46:21check Veronica's GPS in her
2:46:24phone judge that's now paused at 4 hours
2:46:276 minutes and 11 seconds and it's 4:49
2:46:29is this a good place to break it is sure
2:46:32all right ladies and gentlemen we will
2:46:33have our uh weekend
2:46:38break if it was such a bad thing to be
2:46:41honest with you wouldn't it make more
2:46:42sense to me just to like get in my car
2:46:45and
2:46:46like I mean go live live somewhere else
2:46:50like that makes more sense right

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