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Left vs Right, Trump, and the Dishonest Media | Andrew Klavan | POLITICS | Rubin Report — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:05joining me today is an author a
0:06screenwriter the host of the Andrew
0:08claven show and one of the few sane
0:11people on the internet Andrew claven
0:14welcome back to the Reuben report thank
0:15you it's nice to be here I love your new
0:16studio thanks well you were one of the
0:19last guests before we built this home
0:21studio and we had you on at a very odd
0:23time because it was right before the
0:25election but we were going to air it
0:27after the election cuz I had to pad some
0:29shows because
0:30we were building this so I and perhaps
0:33you two went on the assumption that
0:35Hillary was going to win and uh and then
0:38people immediately after we aired it
0:39said you got to get claven back on cuz
0:41you guys got to got to clean this whole
0:43thing up so you ready to do some
0:45cleaning I'm ready I'm here all right so
0:47where I want to start first is I do
0:48consider you one of the few sane people
0:50that I that speaks ill of
0:52you but I consistently every time I I
0:55watch one of your Clips or I see what
0:57you're tweeting about you strike me
1:00as just you basically strike me as
1:02decent which these days I think has a
1:05correlation between decency and Sanity
1:07uh that's a lot of pressure I'm giving
1:09you it is sad that being decent actually
1:12elevates you above the the her these
1:14days but but you know it's the thing
1:17with me is that I have I can say I can
1:20State what my principles are I can I F I
1:22try to follow my principles and I try
1:23not to get too mixed up with
1:25personalities which in this day and age
1:27with a president like Trump with like
1:29the people around you know around him
1:32makes things a lot clearer you know
1:33because that's what people are paying
1:35attention to they're paying attention to
1:36the big faces they're paying attention
1:38to that he said this and she said that
1:39and I'm just like trying to follow that
1:41principle which I know what it is and
1:42I'm trying to follow that thing yeah so
1:44I think I come from a similar place and
1:46I think you know our politics which do
1:48line up in a lot of ways not not fully
1:50but that that's what I try to go for
1:53where do you think that comes from
1:54within you that you don't go for all
1:57that other stuff that that so many
1:59people do me it's actually a matter of
2:01time o observing over time what works
2:04what doesn't work and also you know it's
2:08just been a basic maybe it was the time
2:10I was raised in but it has been a basic
2:12principle of me that PE of mine that
2:13people should be free that you should be
2:15free that you are you know made by God
2:19to be a free person that the things that
2:21are happening inside you that are
2:23expressed in your and the things that
2:25you like and the things that you want to
2:26say and your opinions and all that that
2:28all those things are
2:30uh uniquely valuable and even if you're
2:32a jackass even if you're saying stuff
2:34that makes me want to strangle you you
2:35know if you're a racist or something
2:37like this I think that there's something
2:38uniquely valuable about that and I know
2:41that it's more important than some guy
2:43in Washington who knows better than you
2:46and I think that that's that's always
2:48been my assumption it was I was raised
2:50in that All-American way I was raised in
2:52the suburbs in the early 60s you know
2:54just that was kind of what that was the
2:56Civic religion and it always seemed good
2:59to me and when things changed I would
3:01listen to the
3:03arguments and I follow I've changed you
3:05know I've developed and that things get
3:07uh are different over time but certain
3:10principles stay the same and if you
3:11stick with that you basically I don't
3:13know you know it's it's a question of
3:15actually enjoying other people and even
3:17when they can be jerks sometimes I I I
3:20like them you know I like people you
3:22mean you can enjoy sitting across from
3:23someone that you don't agree with are
3:25you saying that that you can do that
3:27this is the thing when you know whenever
3:29I see on YouTube it says so and so
3:31destroys someone else I like one that
3:32says so and so talks to someone else big
3:35letters you know because yeah when you
3:37talk to people you disagree with if they
3:38don't get angry at you and they're not
3:41shouting at you you know you learn a lot
3:43of stuff and you can and and you hone
3:45your own arguments and sometimes on
3:47occasion you change your mind I mean I'm
3:50a I would say if I had to place myself
3:52in the political Spectrum I'd be a
3:53Libertarian but one of the reasons I
3:55changed on abortion took 20 years but I
3:58had an argument with a guy and I lost it
4:01all right and I thought like you know
4:02what I can't defend my position against
4:05this guy yeah which is a great teachable
4:07moment it's a real teachable moment and
4:08it reminds you to listen to people yeah
4:10I like that you just use the phrase
4:12Civic religion because one of the things
4:14I've been talking about on here is that
4:17to me leftism has become a secular
4:19religion I've had a couple people
4:21mention this idea Peter beian was on a
4:22couple weeks ago uh who really explained
4:25it well but that basically this has
4:27become this infallible Doctrine that you
4:30must never leave and if you do leave
4:32you're going to basically have a fat on
4:35your head right but a Civic religion is
4:38is an interesting phrase because
4:40basically you were just your Civic
4:41religion in that regard was just Live
4:42and Let Live well pretty much yes and
4:45basically and and the idea that you know
4:47that the more government there is the
4:49less PE of a person there is you know
4:52the the fact that a a woman comes into a
4:54town and says oh I know how to do
4:56people's hair and the government says
4:57well you need a permit for that we need
5:00a permit to do hair do you know that
5:02that's it's just a kind of ongoing this
5:03is a bald guy issue right exactly well
5:06you know you read those occasional
5:08stories where some little kid has a
5:09lemonade stand and the police pull up
5:11you know because he doesn't have a per I
5:12mean that is the stuff that is so
5:15offensive to me and and it's like I I
5:17guess over time I've kept watching
5:19people who told me that they were trying
5:21to make the world more free and more
5:23fair but it always turned out not always
5:26but it often turned out that what they
5:28were really trying to to do was take the
5:30power away from someone they thought was
5:32oppressing them and take it themselves
5:33so that they could oppress the person
5:34who had been oppressing and I have like
5:36just steadfastly maintained that like I
5:39I want the world to be more free and
5:41more fair I'm perfectly willing to
5:43accept that somebody's been marginalized
5:44and needs to be included but I'm not
5:46willing to force this other guy to like
5:48it or to include him or to serve him or
5:51do anything else it just seems to me
5:52that freedom is a balance you yeah you
5:55mentioned something very briefly about
5:57God now last time you were on we we did
6:00sort of your whole Evolution which is
6:01really kind of fascinating you were born
6:03Jewish then you were atheist for what a
6:06bulk of your 35 years for 35 years
6:09agnostic atheism yeah and then about how
6:10old were you when you then I was I was
6:13about 45 when I became a theist when I
6:15start to believe in God and I was uh
6:17just about 50 when I was baptized yeah
6:19yeah so how I I just had uh your friend
6:23Dennis Prager on my friend Dennis Breer
6:25and and Michael Shermer do you know
6:26Michael by any chance Michael who runs a
6:28skeptic magazine oh yes and we had a
6:30great conversation about belief and
6:33morality with God or without God it was
6:35really great and at the end we all
6:36agreed wow how nice we can sit in a room
6:39and not agree on everything and we might
6:41have dinner together you know um but for
6:44you as someone that's you know traveled
6:47in and out of religion uh how important
6:50is the idea of religion as a
6:52foundational belief for society uh well
6:56the only reason to believe in religion
6:58as far as I'm concerned is because true
7:00okay that's the only reason so the idea
7:02that it's good for society or it is um
7:06or conducive to Law and Order conducive
7:09to politeness I'm I'm not interested in
7:11believing in a fantasy just because it
7:13works I and I've always hated arguments
7:15based on practicality uh when it comes
7:17to metaphysics you know I mean to me uh
7:20you can be a nice person obviously
7:21without be without being a theist at all
7:23plenty of nice atheists lovely people
7:26who are
7:27atheist but but I do believe that most
7:30of what you think is true is illogical
7:34without religion without God and many
7:37people don't follow their own thoughts
7:40down to the ground and this is true of
7:42both atheists and Believers and I do
7:45believe that here here's what I think
7:47has happened to us I I think that you
7:50know right around the 17th century the
7:53science became science became the what
7:55we know it to be and certain questions
7:58were put aside
8:00in order to do science so in other words
8:02you had people saying hey I can measure
8:04this and I can predict this and then I
8:06can heal this and I can build this and
8:08all these things are such a great you
8:10know obviously such a great benefit to
8:12society from the iPhone the penicillin
8:14whatever you're talking about all the
8:15stuff has revolutionized human life it
8:19was assumed and it was argued that there
8:21was an underlying logic to science which
8:24precluded God which eliminated God even
8:26though most of the people who invented
8:27science were Christians there was a
8:30presumed that there was an underlying
8:32logic so in other words they say there's
8:34Evolution and if there's Evolution
8:36everything is random and you go well
8:38okay there's
8:39Evolution but random you can't tell
8:42Randomness from within a system you
8:43can't say I'm in a system and is random
8:45because obviously the order of a every
8:47system comes from outside the system I
8:50believe that logic is starting to
8:51collapse I believe that logic has played
8:53out and I believe it has been sold to us
8:55in the
8:56materialism basically materialism that
8:58everything is material everything has a
8:59material cause the material explanation
9:01is better than that that I believe is
9:05toxic because it doesn't make sense
9:08because you cannot get
9:10from morality to materialism and from
9:13materialism to morality that I believe
9:16has had a Toxic effect on our society
9:18and so I don't want to replace
9:20materialism with theism because I think
9:23it's toxic I want to do it because I
9:24think the truth is healing and
9:27liberating so without going too far down
9:29just specifically the the rabbit hole of
9:31belief we've done it a bunch on the show
9:33and I think I find that even for for
9:35atheist unbelievers everyone kind of
9:37gets to a point where it's like all
9:38right well I the good ones at least get
9:40to a point where it's like all right
9:41well that's what I believe and and it
9:43frames some other stuff so let's talk
9:44about that so without going too far down
9:46that rabbit hole if you think that that
9:48those systems are collapsing is that a
9:50is that really a metaphor or a or a
9:53bridge to why so many systems seem like
9:55they're collapsing right now media
9:57politics I think that's exactly
9:59happening I I I will sit here and
10:01predict to you that I believe in the
10:03next actually I believe it's happening
10:05now but I believe it will erupt at some
10:06point that there is going to be an
10:08intellectual Revival of uh it's it's
10:11really Aristotelian thought the idea
10:13that we're here we have a purpose that
10:15that bottle has a purpose that this body
10:18has a purpose this mind has a purpose
10:20that is already coming back and when you
10:22talk to people it's really interesting
10:24when you go in to the top universities
10:26and you talk to the young people there
10:28who are the best minds of the country
10:30they're all believers they all believe
10:32in God which wouldn't have been true I
10:34think 30 40 years ago and this is
10:37because ideas play themselves out over
10:39time and this idea that the world is
10:41material is ending and yes I think a lot
10:44of the craziness we're saying and that
10:46you know I hate talking about some of
10:48these extraordinary political things
10:51because it sounds like you're being mean
10:53like it sounds like when I say if a man
10:57has an operation and turns himself into
10:59to a woman he's not a woman that's a
11:01statement of fact in my to my mind it
11:04doesn't mean that he should be abused or
11:05bullied or hurt or anything like that
11:07it's a totally different question but
11:08some of these questions where reality is
11:10starting to
11:11disappear I I think are built into the
11:13fact that this idea is collapsing it's
11:15so interesting because I do believe that
11:17trans people exist I mean mean I'm not
11:20saying yeah I don't think you said that
11:21they don't exist but but that I believe
11:23that it is it is a a actual um I don't
11:28going to say it's an it's an actual
11:29existential thing for this particular
11:32person but I think but yet I can still
11:34go with you in that place because it
11:35seems like the hysteria constantly
11:37surrounding it is making people question
11:40everything you know what I mean like if
11:41you don't accept trans people the second
11:43that everyone else accepts them or not
11:45even accept them because I think most
11:46people accept them but if you don't
11:47celebrate it immediately or or wish for
11:49a trans child it's like they they will
11:52turn on you as you're a trans yeah and
11:54and I think some of the things that to
11:56uh give a child uh hormone treatments or
12:00any kind of op operation based on some
12:03kind of state of preference that I
12:04believe is abusive that that I believe
12:06is wrong but for an adult to decide that
12:08he wants to live his life in any way he
12:10wants as long as he's not hurting
12:11anybody it means it means nothing to me
12:13I mean it just means nothing to me but
12:15but when he says to me you must call me
12:18a woman then he is taking away my right
12:21to experience reality as I experience it
12:23and that's where he loses his rights as
12:25so this is this strikes me as you're
12:27sort of like a mature Republican you
12:30know what I mean like that's what it
12:31strikes me as it's like if because
12:33everything you just said makes sense
12:34within a a conservative Viewpoint you
12:37know within a Libertarian conservative
12:39Viewpoint except there's so few
12:41conservatives willing to say that what
12:42you just said well you know it's funny
12:44you asked me at the very beginning how I
12:46kept hold of some of these principles
12:49and it didn't occur to me until just a
12:51moment ago as we were talk talking about
12:53one of the things is I'm a novelist I've
12:54lived most of my life writing novels and
12:57when you're a novelist what you do is
12:58you create characters and each one of
13:00these characters has a full complete
13:02existence and a full complete
13:03justification even when you're inventing
13:05the bad guy you realize that in his mind
13:08the world makes perfect sense and and he
13:10makes perfect sense in that world and I
13:12actually think of people that way I mean
13:14maybe that's a novelist training or
13:15maybe you start out with that and it
13:17turns you into a novelist but I actually
13:19think of people that way I actually
13:20think of somebody who says to me I'm
13:22having this inner experience of being uh
13:26alienated from my sex or whatever
13:28whatever it is you know that that
13:30doesn't offend me doesn't I mean that
13:33seems like I feel it might be painful
13:35and it offends me if he says that I have
13:37to react in a certain way or this guy
13:38has to react by law in a certain way but
13:41his experience is like it's it really is
13:43part of the kind of fabric of the world
13:45and I think I think that there has
13:49been too many people on both sides have
13:52conflated what government does with how
13:55we live so in other words I've had this
13:58AR with conservatives a lot where
14:00they'll they'll say well they want to
14:01legalize marijuana and I'll say fine
14:04just don't let people drive with
14:06marijuana you know and like what you
14:08want to poison yourself I think it's bad
14:09for you but you know it's none of my
14:11business go ahead do you think marijuana
14:12is bad for you I do think it's bad for
14:13you but what I've read it's bad for you
14:14but I don't use it so I don't really
14:16know that much about it and you don't
14:18seem to want to stop someone from using
14:19it why would I want to stop somebody
14:21from using it except except if if it
14:23were you I might say Dave you know I've
14:25read some articles not good for you
14:26whatever but that then you know it's
14:28coming for me and you can say with the
14:30vape pen there's virtually no it's not
14:33even you know for the lungs come on but
14:36but this is the thing government should
14:37not have the right to approve or
14:39disapprove it only has the right to
14:41protect me from you it shouldn't protect
14:43me from me if I want to throw myself off
14:45a bridge you know do I think that's
14:47right no but I should be able to throw
14:49myself off a bridge what I shouldn't be
14:51able to do I the best example I always
14:53use is the seat belts versus a cell
14:56phone you know when you use a cell phone
14:57in a car you're endangering me when you
15:00don't use your seat belt you want to fly
15:01through the windshield that's none of my
15:03business and that you know I I I know
15:06that Libertarians take some extreme
15:08crazy positions but in general free
15:10markets free Minds seems to me the the
15:12way forward so I do see the the freedom
15:15thing gaining traction for sure even the
15:19way that I've talked a lot obviously
15:20about Classical liberalism and
15:22libertarianism and all of this I see
15:24that now I see it I just see it in
15:26society and on social media I see it
15:28more
15:29a cooler fion it would if it was maybe
15:32coming from Ted Cruz or something like I
15:34see it's gaining a little attaction in a
15:37bigger way and I'm not certainly not all
15:39because of me obviously um all because
15:42of
15:43you but I like what you said about that
15:45there'll be an intellectual Resurgence
15:47too because I am starting to see a
15:49little bit of that that it's starting to
15:52feel cool to have knowledge again as
15:56opposed to the 15 years of endless
15:59reality TV and just the worst of us
16:02constantly and endless bickering and
16:04one-upping I think we're starting to
16:06turn a corner on that which which I've
16:08been waiting for for a long time well I
16:10mean it's it's an awful you know I I
16:12recently spoke I don't get to speak too
16:14often uh at places part partly because I
16:17ignore the requests and now now I have
16:19somebody who does it so maybe I'll be
16:20speaking but I spoke at Oberlin recently
16:22which is a deeply like the heart of
16:24liberal Darkness as far as and and and I
16:27went went in there and I I was I felt
16:30that these children who at my age they
16:32now look like children you know I felt
16:35that they were being almost
16:38abused by their Heritage of of knowledge
16:42of wisdom was
16:44being taken away from them that if you
16:47know you should come out of college you
16:49should have read some Shakespeare you
16:50know and you should have read all some
16:53of the great writers you should know
16:54some of these great thinkers Plato and
16:56people like that and you should know
16:57them without the professor St in between
16:59you and the guy you know Shakespeare has
17:01traveled through time 400 years to bring
17:04you the wisdom a unique vision of the
17:06world I don't need a professor doing
17:08anything but explaining the context to
17:11me you know and they have this thing
17:12called Theory and all this and all you
17:14know at opin there were it was a black
17:16dorm I mean Martin Luther King would
17:19roll over in his grave you know there
17:21was there were kids who showed up uh you
17:24know kind of aggressively displaying
17:26their sexual proclivities and then um
17:29heckling me from the crowd and and I
17:31kept saying you know what hold your
17:33question and and I'm gonna I'm going to
17:35discuss everything you want to discuss
17:36and then the minute I finished and uh
17:38talking they ran away yeah you know and
17:41and I thought like these isn't that
17:42something just right there you know and
17:45and what was interesting was a lot of
17:46the liberal kids who are just ordinary
17:49liberal they stayed and we had really
17:50good conversations only the hecklers ran
17:52away and and so I just think these kids
17:54are being deprived they're being
17:56deprived of their intellectual Heritage
17:57they're being deprived of the
18:00idea that that I can't fix their
18:03problems what they're being told is that
18:05they're unhappy
18:07because um they're being unhappy because
18:09of the way I treat them or you treat
18:11them or Society treats them they're
18:12unhappy because of things inside
18:14themselves I mean you was there was this
18:16this gay guy yelling at me the whole
18:19time and at at one point I mentioned to
18:23somebody else in another context that I
18:24was actually a supporter of of okay
18:26right and he let out this lot well thank
18:29you and I thought you know I thought you
18:31know you think people don't like you cuz
18:32you're gay they don't like you because
18:33you're
18:35allow an ill is that's what that's what
18:37equality is all about that you just want
18:40people to be equal so that you can treat
18:41them as shitty as you treat everybody
18:43else I don't want special treatment for
18:44being gay you know what I mean it's like
18:46give me equal treatment and now judge me
18:48accordingly exactly and I think this
18:50this has come you know I see guys like
18:53this tan of hey coats M and he writes
18:55these letterers to his son you need you
18:57need to be good for the sins of the past
19:00what a terrible thing to tell a child
19:02nobody can solve the sins of the past
19:05that's the whole point of the past it's
19:07pasted you know and you cannot fix the
19:09things that were done to people you
19:10cannot fix history you you can't pay
19:13people back for things that happened to
19:14people who were dead you know that's the
19:17that's the tragedy of of a Fallen World
19:20you know that that things are written
19:21into the fabric of life and to tell
19:23somebody that that he's not going to be
19:25happy until he gets payback for slavery
19:28or whatever it is that's condemning him
19:30to misery yeah it's it's just because it
19:33never stops the the payback the payback
19:36whatever it is there's never a moment
19:38where you go okay well we we got to
19:40where we're supposed to get and now we
19:42don't need anything else anymore it just
19:44by human logic it doesn't make sense and
19:46this used to be the question of
19:47Education what is the good life what's
19:49conducive to happiness what is you know
19:51what makes you miserable that used to be
19:52what you discussed and it can't the
19:54answer can't be my happiness depends on
19:56you being nice to me cuz going to be
19:59what you are you know I'm curious what
20:00was what group invited you at Oberlin
20:02the some it was a bunch of Republicans
20:04it was like the 15 Republicans yeah and
20:07was kind I kind of surprised them they
20:09just wanted a 16th guy to finally show
20:11up they were like they were like trolls
20:13you know they were kind of they wanted
20:14me to come and make fun of the the left
20:17and I didn't and I thought they even
20:19though the whole thing went incredibly
20:21well I actually just talked about ideas
20:23and people listened and I thought well
20:25that's a victory right but I felt that
20:27that that conservative are so sick of
20:30being shouted at that they've just
20:32turned into uh into trolls they want to
20:34mock the other side yeah which I think
20:35is kind of interesting because I say it
20:37all the time but I only get invited now
20:40to colleges by the young Republicans or
20:43the Libertarians it's a matter of
20:44students for Liberty etc etc all of
20:46these things that are technically right
20:49even though they don't they don't seem
20:51to mind that I'm gay married and
20:52pro-choice and against the death penalty
20:55and and a Litany of other things and
20:57then it's like well who who is the T
20:58inside I I don't get any invites from
21:01anyone no no young Democrats or
21:03progressives of Tomorrow have ever
21:05called me and been like Dave you know we
21:06actually see you you've been criticizing
21:08our side but let's come and talk about
21:10it but I'm getting a ton of love from
21:12those other guys who by the way you're
21:13right there's a lot of trolls in that
21:15too they they've started being the funny
21:16people too which is is that for you as
21:19as a screenwriter and a guy that's
21:20bounced between Hollywood and politics
21:23is that fascinating to you that that
21:25right is starting to become funny it's
21:27it's a joy I mean I my my joke used to
21:29be that the reason conservatives aren't
21:31funny is because liberals have no sense
21:33of humor about
21:34themselves but but it is it is a joy to
21:37see conservatives becoming funny and
21:40becoming the the people of freedom
21:42because let let's face it conservatism
21:44in the old style did have its oppressive
21:47elements and it did have its kind of uh
21:49you know when whenever people are in
21:50charge of the culture as conservatives
21:52were until the 60s basically you know
21:55they abuse that control that's part of
21:57that's part of power corrupt
21:59and there was that element in and there
22:01still is among conservatives that
22:03somehow you know uh you are destroying
22:07the Republic by not being exactly you
22:09know a Bible beating Christian or
22:11whatever it is and and and that just
22:13largely lifted you know I mean so this
22:16is actually an effect I would say a
22:18positive effect that the 60s Revolution
22:22is had on conservatives is they too have
22:24loosened up nobody wants to go back to
22:26wearing ties to baseball games nobody
22:28want wants to go back to um you know a
22:31rigid life where you can't be look you
22:34know take feminism feminism right now to
22:36me like environmentalism is is largely
22:38the enemy they are the feminists are
22:41insane they're not about you know actual
22:43sexual relations between people just
22:45like the environmentalists aren't
22:46actually about conservation and all this
22:47stuff but nobody wants to go back to a
22:49world where a woman doesn't have can't
22:50choose what life she wants I mean I
22:53always say to people if you draw a
22:54circle that's called individualism and a
22:56circle that's called feminism in that
22:58place the ven diagram where they meet
23:01you know I I'll agree with feminism
23:03everything outside of that I don't agree
23:05with but nobody wants to go back to a
23:06world where a woman can't be fully
23:08whoever she wants to be and nobody wants
23:11certainly wants to go back to a racially
23:12segregated world except the left right
23:15they oddly are the ones that are pushing
23:17these things like you just described at
23:18overin and so and so the the modern
23:21right is to some
23:23degree a function of certain things that
23:27leftists have all Al brought to the
23:29table and have now become the party of
23:32Freedom the party of hilarity you know I
23:34mean you do not laugh a lot when you're
23:36around leftist and when you watch when
23:38you watch Samantha be on that's not
23:39funny you know it's not funny it's
23:42painful it's D D
23:45Trump effing Trump you got to put in
23:48yeah and they have to bleep it because
23:49it's on TBS so even if the meant
23:51anything to you not even an exciting
23:54you know yeah no this is this is
23:56the funny thing about it is like when
23:58you hear them doing that the the cursing
24:00and the anger and the r not a lot of
24:02laughs there so then when you
24:04see uh people on the right so like a
24:07Jeff sessions who there's a lot of talk
24:09that he's going to go in and try to
24:10close medical marijuana dispensaries now
24:12you just made it very clear you don't
24:14smoke marijuana You' prefer everything
24:16being equal if people didn't for health
24:18reasons I think there's a lot of debate
24:19around that but I'm just going with with
24:21what you said when you see that as a
24:23small government guy and a States's
24:25rights guy and a and a Libertarian that
24:27must be the part of the right that you
24:29don't like right yeah I don't even know
24:30why you would bother with that I mean I
24:33I don't know why there should be medical
24:34marijuana dispensaries why shouldn't
24:35just be like a liquor store you know you
24:38can't buy it if you're not 18 or
24:39whatever the proper age is and you can't
24:42use it behind the wheel of a car and all
24:44all those things and then we get to tax
24:46tax it you know and get all that money I
24:49so but I don't know why that should be
24:53what's bothering him you know I mean I I
24:55I really like Jeff sessions I'm a pro
24:57Jeff sessions guy I think he's going to
24:59be a great AG you know I think he's
25:00going to do but are you concerned about
25:02that state stuff because to me that's
25:03one of the biggest issues there is the
25:05state's right yeah absolutely absolutely
25:07and one of the things that's kind of a
25:08Joy about the Trump era is all these
25:11liberal states suing the federal
25:13government because I think I win that
25:14either way I either win because the
25:16federal government gets the conservative
25:17thing in there or I win because they get
25:20State's rights so and that's why the
25:21whole as I've now been saying every week
25:23I mean the whole chessboard is just
25:24thrown up the the traditional left right
25:26thing barely makes sense it's
25:27authoritarian and Libertarians and
25:30allies you know coming together in in
25:32some interesting spots I describe it as
25:34like being in a room where the gravity
25:36has gone out of the room and all the
25:37furniture is fling around and you know
25:39you don't know where it's going to land
25:41and I understand some of these guys like
25:43National Review and even my pal Ben hero
25:45you know I understand they're they're
25:46worried about where the furniture may
25:48fall uh I'm kind of optimistic and I'm
25:52not sure how much of that is
25:53constitutional and how much of it is
25:54observational you know right but I do
25:57feel that good things are coming I look
25:59to the generations down the line and
26:03what what I see coming up is kind of a
26:06cultural liberalism which I agree with
26:09but but an understanding that freedom is
26:12economic and freedom is is governmental
26:14and if the government can tell you what
26:15to like and what to do you know it's
26:18just it's it's not you're not free yeah
26:20and they're not that smart I'm going to
26:22give you a rare Choice here do we do we
26:23want to go media first or Trump first
26:26from here this is a Choose Your Own
26:27Adventure that's really interesting
26:29because it's kind of the same thing
26:31let's start with Trump all right let's
26:32go Trump first so when I hear you talk
26:34about Trump so I was with you on
26:36Election actually we we were at the
26:37daily wire offices and it was me you and
26:40and Shapiro and uh who else Bill Whittle
26:43was there and it was a funny night
26:45because we were all having very mixed
26:47emotions I I voted for Gary Johnson I
26:49didn't really want either one of them to
26:50win Ben was alternately like thrilled
26:53and depressed because you know but he
26:55didn't vote for Trump but but he didn't
26:57vote for Trump did has he publicly said
26:59who he voted for I can't remember I'm
27:02not sure I actually don't remember you
27:03did vote for Trump right I did vote for
27:04Trump at the last minute I made that a
27:06very public decision and I explained my
27:08reasons and all that yeah and and then
27:10the fourth guy that was was with us Bill
27:12Whittle was a huge Trump supporter and
27:14he was talking about the things that
27:15we're talking about now that this whole
27:16thing has been flipped and there's room
27:18okay so since the election when I watch
27:20your videos you strike me as one of the
27:22only people making any sense on Trump
27:23because you don't strike me as a as a
27:25pure Fanboy and think that he could go
27:27out into Avenue and shoot someone you
27:29might turn on him for that but you also
27:32don't strike me as as just what is what
27:34most people are at the moment which is
27:36just this hysterical lunacy um it is
27:39hilarious that I I write columns a lot
27:43of times of PJ media yeah and and I'll
27:46I'll say well Trump has done this right
27:48and this wrong and I get this vicious
27:51attacks of you know you're an
27:52anti-trumper and you know you're a
27:54what are that you know and then I
27:57go to work and uh everybody there who is
27:59kind of anti-trump yells at me for
28:01selling my soul anding I get it from all
28:04sides people always think we're selling
28:05our souls doesn't that seem odd to you
28:07well well people think if they disagree
28:09with you your their reasons are rational
28:11your reasons are personal that's what
28:12they think right you're always doing it
28:14for money or for some other reward
28:16somewhere but they do it just for
28:18goodness it's pure it's pure intellect
28:20that has gotten them to this rational
28:22thing but you don't have that intellect
28:24and it's it is funny too because a lot
28:25of the guys I work with are younger than
28:26me and I always think look at them think
28:28do you think maybe it's occurred to me
28:30that to examine my own motives yeah but
28:33well that that concept though before we
28:35dive fully into Trump that concept of of
28:36imputing your intellectual opponent's
28:38motives I think is such a sad thing
28:40that's seeped into everything it's
28:42absurd it doesn't teach you I mean there
28:44are some people obviously who are so
28:46corrupt that it's obvious and and true
28:48but people are trying to find their way
28:50most people in you know in the middle
28:51are trying to find their way so so Trump
28:54okay so so make some sense out of trump
28:57for the people that Ved for Trump
28:59because I I genuinely thought that
29:00Hillary Clinton was a threat to the
29:03American experiment I mean I'm not I
29:06usually don't talk in those big terms
29:07but she did not believe in free speech
29:09her hatred of the uh citizens united
29:12ruling was just indicated to me that she
29:15believed the speech should be controlled
29:17there are four justices on the Supreme
29:20Court who have signed on to a theory of
29:22the first amendment that says
29:24essentially that it does not guarantee
29:26you the right to speak but it guarant es
29:28is that the government should control
29:30speech so that our values continue to be
29:33upheld that's a very dangerous sick
29:36stupid and wrong Theory one more judge
29:40now I don't believe all of them would
29:41sign on every but one more judge and
29:43that obviously there was an open seat
29:45and we could have lost the first
29:47amendment I don't believe that was the
29:48most likely thing but it could have
29:49happened so C can you take the
29:51Counterpoint on that just just for
29:52Devil's Advocate the people that would
29:54argue against you on on citizens united
29:57well oh well citizens united just says
29:59that if you form a corporation if you
30:00and I form the Ruben claven Corporation
30:02we don't lose our right to free speech I
30:04mean what happened was citizens united
30:06put out a documentary against Hillary
30:08and they said well that's campaigning so
30:11you can't put it on the air and they
30:12said it's free speech we can yeah and
30:14they said well you're a corporation so
30:15you don't have the rights and the New
30:16York Times signed on to that the New
30:17York Times said no we our Corporation
30:20has free speech because we're a press
30:21Corporation but your corporation does
30:23not have you know it's nuts and that's
30:25it's typical of the left because as say
30:28I believe their their reason their logic
30:31is collapsing so they have to shout you
30:32down they can't invite Dave Rubin to
30:35Oberlin you know to to talk with the
30:37left they can't because they know their
30:39argument is over so I voted for Trump 5%
30:42of my mind and in my mind 5% I was
30:45thinking the guy is Hitler you know
30:47thought there's a 5% chance I am making
30:49the biggest mistake of my life and I'm
30:51PR which a pretty high percentage if
30:52you're going Hitler you know I you're
30:54ABS when when Reagan was elected I
30:56remember having friends called I'm
30:58saying is this the end I said no this
30:59he's a good guy you know he'll be fine
31:01he'll be on the other side for a while
31:02you know you won't die when people
31:04called me up with this I was going like
31:0695%
31:08sure and I think you know like like you
31:12said that's a big percentage if you're
31:14talking a genuine authoritarian Ty I I
31:17just thought the BET was worth it
31:19because I thought that Hillary was the
31:21end of the American experiment in the
31:23peaceful possible way like you know they
31:26there's something in sports called
31:27losing comfortably where you don't even
31:29notice you're losing and then the game
31:30is over and it's done that's what I
31:33thought she was and and so I thought
31:34that it was worth the risk and I have
31:38been
31:39largely delighted with how good he's
31:43been now that doesn't mean I think he's
31:45been great it just means that I was
31:47really worried that he was going to be
31:49really bad and instead he's been pretty
31:52good you know um crazy things about him
31:56that are hard to get over the mean
31:57tweets the personal tweets you know all
32:00that stuff I don't mind the I don't mind
32:01the Mean Tweets but but I'll I'll tell
32:03you like three things that he has done
32:06that have really lifted me you know I
32:08mean like I really just thought like wow
32:10I did obviously gorsage that's the
32:13obvious one I mean that's a big deal and
32:16and people who on the right who don't
32:18like Trump keep saying oh you keep
32:20bringing up gorsage I'm going to keep
32:21bring it up until I'm gone you know
32:23that's a big big Supreme Court
32:25appointment and he did a great job it's
32:27also kind of a funny one to diminish
32:29regardless of what side you're on
32:30because guess what the Supreme the
32:32courts are a third of the government
32:34that's right that's one of the three
32:35branches the left has been using them as
32:37a super legislature and and Gorsuch
32:39won't do that he's opposed to that the
32:41other one and this is a little wonky of
32:43me but I've been I was talking about it
32:44way before the election so I feel I come
32:46by it naturally is he's been rolling
32:48back regulations and we were talking
32:50about this before the idea that you need
32:52a permit to get you to be a hair stylist
32:54or permit to sell lemonade on the street
32:56you know he's been rolling that back and
32:59there was a deluge that was Obama's kind
33:01of you know uh parthan shot as he was
33:05leaving office he just left all these
33:07regulations in place and he's been
33:09repealing them and I think that that is
33:10a huge deal the regulatory state is a
33:14genuine threat to our freedoms you know
33:17just the fact that you need a you need
33:18to ask permission of the government to
33:19do anything uh is a bad thing and that's
33:22to me I mean really it it really is
33:25uplifting to me yeah and the third thing
33:27this why I wanted to talk about Trump
33:28first is that he has driven a truck into
33:32the structure of a corrupt biased
33:35intellectually poisonous media and it
33:37was rotten the structure was rotten but
33:39he's the one who drove the truck into it
33:41and I don't think anybody else had the
33:43Charisma or the viciousness or uh or the
33:47UN or that understanding that comes from
33:49being a TV star to do what he has done
33:53so I'm with you yeah especially on that
33:55one well I like the regulations also
33:57this is somewhere where I have shifted a
33:58little bit right I I get it now the the
34:00government regulations for these
34:01nonsensical things and you know as a
34:03small business owner I so understand
34:05those type of things now um but that
34:07last one to me is the one that's really
34:09resonating with people even the way you
34:11just said it I mean that's the one that
34:12is Catching Fire with people and that's
34:15the one that I think really most people
34:16just it just intuitively they understand
34:20do you think he truly truly got it right
34:23from the be do you think that really all
34:25came from him that's the part you know I
34:27I said before the election I just don't
34:29know what his moral Center is I still
34:30don't know what like his real sort of
34:32the the ethos of this man is do you
34:34think he really really understood that
34:37like that was just from being an
34:38outsider and mocked at the old White
34:41House Press correspondents things and
34:42being on reality TV and New York media
34:45and all that I think he got it because
34:47he's them he's one of them you know he's
34:49like I mean me too I was a reporter I
34:52was in radio news and all this stuff and
34:54I would see what was going on and how
34:56people thought and how you know when
34:58you're surrounded by people who agree
35:00with you you become biased all I think
35:01he's just he's he's got a talent for it
35:03he's got a talent for you know I used to
35:07talk to Andrew Breitbart and I would sit
35:09there and go like I've never heard
35:10somebody who understands the flow of
35:12information that it's going to be here
35:13at this moment at 12:00 and it's going
35:15to be here at 2 o'clock and it's going
35:16to be here at 3 o' this is the way it's
35:17going to work Trump's like that he has a
35:19natural genius for understanding the
35:22flow of information sometimes he will do
35:24he'll send out a tweet and everybody
35:26will say why did he dist everybody from
35:29he he realized that he was losing
35:30control of the narrative and he seized
35:32it back and does he do that like sit up
35:35in his unmount White House and say aha
35:38now at 10 12:15 I kind of doubt it I
35:41don't know him so I don't know but I I
35:43think he has a natural feeling for the
35:46way this works and he understands you
35:48know he'd be a fool not to understand
35:50that he's under Fire unfairly uh and and
35:54I think he knows how to fight back and
35:56it's it's a pleasure to watch all right
35:58so Trump drives a truck through this
35:59thing I like what has happened there and
36:02we're going to get to that in CNN in a
36:03moment okay but let's talk about that 5%
36:06do you still fear that 5% or have those
36:09fears been allayed just because time has
36:12gone on and you haven't seen anything
36:14that absurd they have been allayed to
36:16almost almost entirely everything that I
36:18thought about Trump turned out to be
36:20true in terms of my assessment of his
36:23personality but none of it turned out to
36:25be its worst manifestation so it it
36:28really did bother me for instance that
36:30he would use violent language at rallies
36:33they punch this guy if you see that guy
36:35punch him in the face and all that stuff
36:37and he does have that side to his
36:38personality but it didn't manifest
36:41itself in in actual violence or act you
36:43know he's the opposite of an
36:45authoritarian if you consider the fact
36:47that one of the most uh incompetent
36:49parts of his imagin of his
36:51administration is he has been unable to
36:53fill a lot of the uh you know positions
36:57in the in the government in the
36:58permanent government he hasn't taken
36:59over the permanent government which is
37:01what an author an actual authoritarian
37:03would do you know an actual hitlerian
37:04figure would come in and make sure he
37:06made all the appointments and put his
37:07guys in there he's too lazy to do that
37:09because is that lazy though or is that
37:11just a function of he because there is
37:12some some reason to believe he's just
37:14having trouble getting the right type of
37:16people I think that that he probably is
37:18having trouble there's you know he has
37:20this unfortunate habit one of his really
37:22unfortunate habits of wrong footing his
37:25own people so you'll go out and you'll
37:28say well president Trump said this and
37:30he'll say I didn't say that and you get
37:32stabbed in the back by your own guy and
37:34I think a lot of people don't want to
37:35sign on for that he's he's erratic and
37:38he is emotional and I think that that's
37:40dangerous for the you know the best
37:42people that said he is appointed a
37:44tremendous cabinet I mean an
37:45unbelievable cabinet and a cabinet of
37:48people who are at odds with the agencies
37:50that they are appointed to lead which I
37:52think is part of my hatred of of uh
37:54regulation of agencies and regulation so
37:56when you see things like so something
37:58like the the Paris climate Accords I
38:00suspect you were fine with us getting
38:02out drilled I think it's nonsense yeah
38:04nonsense in that it was non-binding and
38:06whatever else or that we had to burn in
38:09the load or what I I yeah I think the
38:10Paris ofs were only going to get us into
38:12legal trouble they were only there so
38:13people could sue us there was nothing
38:15binding about it but it would give a lot
38:17of legal problems to the government and
38:19I also believe the global warming as
38:21it's posed I you know I'm not saying
38:23that the world isn't getting warmer I'm
38:24just saying that global warming is an
38:26hysterical environment Al disaster uh I
38:30I'm almost positive it's a nonsense
38:32where do you go for information on on
38:34global warming because this is one of
38:35the ones where I find that when I'm
38:37talking to conservatives and where I I
38:40know that there's so much ground to
38:42agree on some stuff that I do believe in
38:44in climate change I would I wouldn't we
38:46don't even call it global warming
38:47climate change um well the very fact
38:50they changed it to climate change from
38:52global warming tells heard this argument
38:54yeah well here's the thing I mean we're
38:55on a a rock that's spiral into an atomic
38:58explosion it's not a steady state it's
39:00not a it's not a secure environment
39:02we're not living and and we've gone from
39:03ice ages to you know uh lava the world
39:07being basically molten you know it's I
39:09mean the the climate changes so we know
39:12the climate is changing we know it's
39:13gotten warmer over the years I mean
39:15there you know going back in time there
39:16were years when the temps froze and you
39:19know and people skated on the temps and
39:21so like we know that there's there's
39:23changes there is no way to a know how
39:28much of this is human endeavor and and B
39:31to know how much how this goes into the
39:33future when people say science there is
39:36no science for predicting the future
39:38there is no science for predicting the
39:39future when people are telling you
39:41what's going to happen in the future
39:42they are what's coming out of their
39:44mouth is nothing okay when people say
39:47this is what's going to happen 10 years
39:48down the line I have arguments like this
39:50about politics too when somebody says
39:52well if we do this then in four years
39:54you go like ah stop stop right there I
39:55go I'll give you till Thursday and then
39:59you know I mean well I love that cuz
40:00every time they show anything they well
40:02the CBO said that in 10 years this is
40:04going to cost 20 million lives and
40:05you're like has that ever happened
40:06they're always doing this and by the way
40:08you're the same people who got
40:09everything wrong before the election now
40:12you suddenly can prognosticate perfectly
40:14yeah and when you hear the phrase if
40:15present Trends continue it's like
40:17everything after that is nonsense
40:18because that never happens either you
40:19right so all right so without without
40:21getting too far into the climate change
40:23thing do you think there's some role for
40:24government to play with dealing with
40:27other nations when it come comes to
40:29climate not not I can't think of
40:31anything I mean except like you know I I
40:34I do believe in preserving our
40:35environment and taking care of things
40:37you you know this is the thing is that
40:38the left always takes these rational
40:40issues where there's a true good to be
40:42gained and they turn them into hysteria
40:45so give us all your power I mean look
40:47I'm a religious guy if a guy comes on TV
40:49and says Jesus is coming tomorrow unless
40:51you send me a check I get suspicious
40:53right but so when these guys say to me
40:55if you don't give the government all and
40:58essentially fulfill every socialist need
41:01the world is going to be destroyed in a
41:02hail of fire I feel the same way it's
41:04like yeah I'll turn on something else
41:05and see if there's an old Yogi Bear
41:08rerun on or yeah yeah which there
41:09usually is you go up into the really
41:11high channels like around 130 or so um
41:13okay let's talk about the media because
41:15because you can talk about we can talk
41:16ourselves into a trump style fidget
41:19spinner and it's not going to get us
41:20anywhere so uh the media he drove this
41:23truck through it I do think it's great I
41:25think it's helped voices like yours like
41:27what we're doing here like many other
41:29people uh who are not promising all the
41:32answers but at least promising
41:34discussions and and some some lines of
41:36thought that maybe weren't getting out
41:37there in the mainstream do you think
41:39that there is a risk in that too that we
41:41are just going to filter ourselves into
41:44Oblivion to the point where instead of
41:47having three news channels we're now
41:49going to have a gajillion of them and
41:50we're all going to hate each other for a
41:52zillion new reasons that we didn't even
41:53realize definitely there's a definite
41:55moral hazard here I mean a free you know
41:57as as as these Liars in our press keep
42:00saying a free press is important to a
42:02free society and you do want I mean
42:04another thing that's working well under
42:06Trump is that everybody that the Press
42:07is attacking the people in power instead
42:09of what they did during the Obama
42:10Administration where they kept their
42:12hands over their eyes and said oh look
42:14he's Scandal free I would argue there's
42:16a little bit of an overcorrection
42:18happening an over correction no question
42:19about it but that's because they're so
42:21corrupt I mean that's why so I do
42:23believe in a a uh I can't remember the
42:26word but a press that basically stands
42:28up to power I do believe in a free press
42:31we don't have a free press we have a
42:32press that has been corrupted Beyond its
42:34purposes and that doesn't mean they're
42:36no good reporters that means that a good
42:39reporter on the New York Times is
42:41basically doing the wrong thing because
42:43he's giving credence and uh he's giving
42:47credence and credibility to a sophomoric
42:51left-wing College magazine and with his
42:55can you give me an example of that cuz
42:56that's the type of so I attack CNN all
42:58the time I've seen some bad stuff lately
43:00out of the New York Times where the
43:01headline leads you one way and then when
43:03you read it it really isn't what it said
43:05they've been doing a lot of Corrections
43:07lately which usually no one reads the
43:09corrections so you never see any of that
43:11but when I when I do attack the New York
43:12Times people give me more like CNN
43:14it's like everyone's in on the joke now
43:16okay but but New York Times it's a
43:17little bit different so when you
43:18describe it as a as a sophomore well
43:20well oh oh they I mean if you read their
43:23oped page which I now call knucklehead
43:25row you know if you read their op head
43:27page it's it really is like a bunch of
43:298-year-old girls in a room where a mouse
43:31has gotten loose it's like all screaming
43:33and yelling everybody running around
43:34hysteric and and that's really unfair to
43:368-year-old girls and and if you read I
43:39mean just yesterday they ran a story
43:41Donald Trump Jr met with a Russian
43:43lawyer and all this who cares I mean who
43:45cares Donald Trump Jr met with a Russian
43:47lawyer to get because he thought she had
43:50information on the opposition and
43:51everybody you know faints and who cares
43:55I saw celebrities well-known people
43:57saying this is it this is the collusion
43:58we've been looking
44:00for it's called opposition research
44:02everyone does this do you think Hillary
44:03didn't meet with people to see if they
44:05had information on Trump and only in an
44:07organization where no one is sitting
44:08next to you who says dude that's not a
44:11story that's a 30 page 30 Story Only in
44:15a place where everybody thinks we've
44:16found the Smoking Gun can you make a
44:18fool of yourself like that you know in
44:20other words you want somebody to say to
44:22you you know like I I know you're a
44:25conservative but there is some thing to
44:27not letting people starve to death in
44:29the streets you go oh yeah I forgot
44:30about you know okay you know like and
44:32the opposite is true you know yeah I
44:34know you're a left Winger but everybody
44:36does Oppo research and you know the fact
44:37that she was from Russia makes doesn't
44:39mean a thing you know and by the way as
44:41far as I know he didn't buy anything
44:43from it was it was a ruse to get him to
44:46talk about this ruling you know that
44:48limits the way they can use Banks and
44:49all this stuff you know we've been
44:52listening to this stupid story for six
44:54months this Russian story it is not a
44:56story I mean it's just not and even even
44:59the Russian meddling with the election
45:01which I believe happened is kind of like
45:04finding a spy you know we go oh my
45:07goodness there's a spy who would ever
45:09spy on a you know you like uh you know
45:12can we bring our spies back for a couple
45:13you know that that's what this is like
45:15we do it to them and all this and they
45:16do it to us so the New York Times has
45:19become it's dishonest they use good
45:22reporters and good reporting to tell a
45:23dishonest story and the fact that they
45:26think that even can conceive of the idea
45:28that they're not a leftist rag shows you
45:31how far gone they are I mean that they
45:33cannot you know take it just any day
45:36pick up the Wall Street Journal and pick
45:38up the New York Times And The Wall
45:40Street Journal you're talking to an
45:41adult the New York Times you're talking
45:42to a child well it's interesting that
45:44you made a point of saying the oped page
45:46is too because obviously you expect
45:47opinion on oped page so that that's
45:49separate then the editorial side but but
45:50their app Ed page the reaction to some
45:52of the things that they're doing has
45:53gone insane so they brought Brett
45:55Stevens from The Wall Street Journal he
45:56WR that one piece basically just about
45:58skepticism didn't even really say he
46:00doesn't believe in climate change I
46:01think he may have even said the opposite
46:03but then they were immediately people
46:05demanding he be fired and all of this
46:08craziness just for having an alternate
46:09opinion on their OP ED page but the one
46:11that I thought was more interesting did
46:12you see the one a couple weeks ago uh
46:15about uh Brett Weinstein from Evergreen
46:17State and it was all about campus Free
46:19Speech but basically the thrust of it at
46:21the end was we as liberals better start
46:23caring about this because it's coming
46:24for us right and I thought what an
46:27odd admission you you're now admitting
46:30that you didn't care about Free Speech
46:31because it was coming about coming
46:33against the other people now it's
46:34finally turning on a guy who's left left
46:37left super Progressive so now we better
46:38start caring like that was a strange
46:41admission it was nice it was refreshing
46:42I suppose it is but I mean I think the
46:44New York Times has just gone so far down
46:46this hole that an article like that
46:49stands out you know when you read an
46:50article like that in the times you go
46:52like wow even in the New York Times
46:53they're now for free speech you know
46:55that's that's not good you know like the
46:57New York Times should be for freee
46:58speech every day for everyone every day
47:00the New York Times should have
47:01conservatives on on the desks where the
47:04news decisions are being made uh you
47:07know the the Wall Street Journal is is
47:09anti-trump in its news Pages as
47:12sometimes unfairly I think but not
47:14crazily you know they have people
47:15obviously correcting their opinions you
47:18you know there comes a level there comes
47:20a time when the level of corruption gets
47:22so bad that audacity becomes a kind of a
47:26brag so you see this in governments all
47:28the time you see it in Illinois places
47:29like Chicago and things like this where
47:32remember the the uh uh Boss Tweed in the
47:35little tin box and all this stuff yeah I
47:37put the money in a little tin box that
47:39that audacious corruption is is the
47:42comes from a sense that we are so
47:43corrupt that no one can touch us okay
47:46when you put George Stephanopoulos a
47:48Clinton hack at the top of your news
47:51team he is your news guy that's a sign
47:53that you have become corrupt it's not
47:55that he's not ABC News yes that's ABC
47:57it's not not that he's not a nice man or
47:59whatever he is he's a guy who once said
48:00to Hillary I love you Hillary he can
48:03have a role in your news department but
48:04he should not be running your news
48:06Department the guy at CBS who just looks
48:08like Ted Baxter to me you know the
48:10remember from
48:12theed what's his name Scott Pell you
48:14know who who made who made decisions so
48:17biased during the Obama Administration
48:19that his own reporters didn't want their
48:21stories going on his air because they
48:23didn't want to do what I was talking
48:24about was serve uh a biased report
48:27this corruption has become so manifest
48:30and so absurd that to see it taken down
48:34is a beautiful thing but you're right we
48:36need to replace it with something of
48:38value we need to replace it with
48:39something that works so is that why
48:41they're hitting back so hard so the CNN
48:43thing that happened last week with this
48:45threat to dock this person who did a
48:48perfectly legal thing it is legal to
48:50make memes by the way he didn't make it
48:52for Trump however it got to Trump and it
48:54sounds like it was actually a slightly
48:55altered version we don't know how it is
48:57but there are millions of people making
48:59memes on the internet as we sit here
49:01right the second it wasn't just that
49:03they were threatening to dock this guy
49:05for doing something illegal it was the
49:06line after that where they said he's
49:08agreed not to do this offensive blah
49:11blah blah again as if they're the church
49:13or his parents or something so to me
49:15that was that was the scarier thing not
49:17the threat of the docks which of course
49:19is wrong but the the threat that they
49:21were tacitly saying or implicitly saying
49:24to everybody else we're we're watching
49:26you too and we're going to come for all
49:28of you well you know and then the
49:29internet turned on them in a beautiful
49:31fashion right and but it was only the
49:33the followup and the com uh completion
49:36of the logic that went after Joe the
49:38plumber and of course the right
49:39mishandled that by elevating Joe the
49:41plumber to some kind of commentator
49:43because he'd been attacked but remember
49:44Joe the plumber went out and asked the
49:46question of a political candidate and
49:48they went after the guy who asked the
49:49question you know I mean this is what
49:51how corrupt they've become and they are
49:54thuggish and this is all of them this is
49:56I mean talking about the networks I'm
49:58talking about the times I'm talking
49:59about wapo and I'm talking about CNN
50:01which is in in some ways the least of
50:03them because it's just a small operation
50:05that would vanish like that if people
50:07cut their cable cords you know right
50:08right they what's that thing they say
50:10that if they would get CNN out of
50:11airports it would lose like it would
50:13lose all of its all of its uh viewers
50:16you know it's all of these guys and and
50:19they it hasn't even occurred to one of
50:20them not one of them has said well you
50:23know Trump is being a jerk and Trump is
50:25not it's not fair what does and it's
50:27really wrong when he attacks our
50:28reporter in terms of her face or
50:30whatever you know like but he has a
50:32point you know we need to reform our
50:34industry there's a reason that the
50:36people believe Donald Trump more than
50:38they believe us there's a reason the
50:39people hate us so much so it really is
50:41that they've just been Drunk on Power
50:43for these last whatever it is 30 years
50:45they've been Drunk on Power for so long
50:47and now they finally have someone
50:48throwing it in their face and now the
50:50people the actual people are rising up
50:52against them too that you know I saw uh
50:56you saw so probably Chris Cuomo uh who
50:58of course his brother is the mayor or is
51:00the governor of New York his father was
51:02the governor of New York and he's an
51:04idiot he's like Fredo from the
51:06K he really I mean I every time you see
51:09the guy he's just another just embarass
51:11yeah but he tweeted something about you
51:14know the these hateful memes and and
51:15should we release the information
51:17because uh the guys tweeted some other
51:19racist stuff and all that and then he
51:20ended up deleting it but I I retweeted
51:22him and I said would you say that a a a
51:25meme or a gift is worse than what than
51:29Linda sarur calling for Jihad now we
51:31talked about it briefly before we
51:32started but regardless of whether she
51:34meant her own personal Jihad but she's
51:36talking about the white supremacists and
51:37islamophobes in the White House and
51:39everyone knows if you're using that word
51:41you're trying to Jin up a certain
51:43something and my tweet got way more
51:46retweets and everything than than any of
51:47his do he has a million followers and
51:49almost no interaction which also tells
51:50you a little something um but I bring
51:52this up because it's like of course he
51:54doesn't respond because they think
51:55they're beholden to nobody too where
51:57it's like we're we actually are beholden
51:59to our audience you know when I was a
52:01newspaper man I was a newspaper man in a
52:03small town with a very powerful and
52:05somewhat corrupt Sheriff so it was like
52:07out of a movie you know and I would I
52:08would Badger the guy and I remember
52:10saying to one I had some sources in the
52:12department and I remember saying to one
52:13of them look we work for this we both
52:15work for the people and he turned around
52:16and he said I work for the people you
52:18work for a corporation and I thought my
52:20God he's right the minut the minute he
52:22said it oh that's true you know that's
52:24true they don't understand that they're
52:25just mouthpieces for big corporations
52:27which love big government because big
52:28government hurts the little guy you know
52:31that's all they're doing they're just
52:32standing up for these powerful
52:33corporations in the name of all the
52:35leftist you know uh bywords and all this
52:38stuff you know they really have lost any
52:42real sense of themselves and it it's
52:44just it's it's pitiful to watch in some
52:47ways but it is good to see it getting
52:49exposed and what I would like to see on
52:52the right I I feel on the right we have
52:54a lot of really good people like you and
52:56me and Ben and all these people
52:58expressing opinions but we I don't
53:00consider myself part of the right by
53:02kind of moving into libertarian I would
53:04say you know I'm I'm still a liberal
53:06which is a fine line between that and a
53:08Libertarian but yes I I I hate to even
53:11pause you there to say that but I know a
53:13certain amount of people start screaming
53:14at me but I consider my I'm more than
53:16happy to to talk to all of you guys but
53:18I say it all the time that I'm a
53:19conservative because I'm a liberal all
53:21right so I'll just use the reverse on
53:22that okay yeah and and I I think that
53:25like I I would like to see us start to
53:27gather information and and that's
53:29expensive and you need people to back
53:31you and you need it to to somehow make
53:33it profitable but we need to start
53:35sending people to the hotspots because
53:37for me to get the facts I have to go to
53:39the New York Times And The Wall Street
53:40Journal and CNN and all these places
53:42because they hire reporters and it's
53:45opinions are great and uh insights are
53:48great and there is now because the Press
53:50is so corrupt there is an actual need
53:53for people like us to say they're
53:55telling you the facts mean this but the
53:57facts actually might mean this you know
53:59that is an actual profession now it's a
54:01real profession that needs to be done
54:03but I would like to see the right go
54:06after have people in Iraq have people in
54:09uh you know in the hot spots of the
54:11world have people in Washington DC the
54:13best news program on television is Brett
54:16Bear's Special Report because they
54:18gather news and because they're Fair
54:20even though he's you know even though
54:21they tilt to the right they're very fair
54:23about what they cover are you shocked by
54:26the bre of it just sort of the amount of
54:29activists masquerading as journalists
54:31because that's what I think they are
54:33truly these people are not I mean I've
54:35seen just some of the recent hit pieces
54:36on me yeah and it's like no matter how
54:38much I plead my case or defend myself or
54:40show them evidence to the contrary of
54:42what you know some Mother Jones calling
54:44me an extremist to the right of
54:45Breitbart you know yeah real doozy and
54:49it's like you know they they don't
54:51correct anything they don't care they
54:53know their job is safe and it's like
54:54forgetting all that you're not
54:56journalist like that's what I I tweeted
54:58the guy something to that effect like I
54:59just want you to admit you're not a
55:00journalist write what write what you
55:02want even though I probably had a decent
55:03case reliable write what you want but
55:05can you admit what you're doing and it's
55:07like that sort of that lack of uh
55:11self-awareness you know I I've been I
55:14have now been saying this to the right
55:16for 10 15 years about our loss of the
55:20culture and that's what this is this is
55:22the result of our loss of the
55:24universities of our loss of TV stations
55:27you know U women's magazines every
55:30women's magazine is is leftwing every
55:32comedian on television every late night
55:33comedian every single one is a left
55:36Winger not one not one woman and when
55:38and when one of them made a joke was
55:41nice to Donald Trump he was basically
55:43pillared you know he had to take jimy
55:45Jimmy Fallon that was the one you know I
55:46mean it's hard to tell the difference
55:47because they're all the same you know
55:48they're all exactly same everyone how do
55:51we how do we let that happen and why
55:53don't we respond and I always I always
55:56say to conservatives that telling them
55:58about the culture is like trying to
55:59explain to my wife when she buys
56:01something on sale it still cost money
56:03you know and she always looks at me and
56:04go and says you know you're a cute guy
56:06and I like you but I don't know what
56:07you're talking about and that's the way
56:08conservatives look at me you know they
56:11how did we get to the point where we
56:14have people talking like a
56:15hundred-year-old men going I don't go to
56:17the movies anymore I just turn on Turner
56:19cloud and dar is good enough you know I
56:22mean that that's insane and how do we
56:24get to the point where we start making
56:26stuff that educates people not to be
56:30right-wingers but simply to to open
56:33their minds a little bit so I don't know
56:34what your feelings are on Milo but I
56:36suspect after hearing you say that you
56:38must at least love much of the movement
56:41behind him right because isn't he that
56:43isn't that thing that you're now saying
56:45we got we're winning the culture War
56:47back I mean he talked about that all the
56:48time right here you know that is such a
56:51great question really it's a great
56:53question because Milo gives me fits uh I
56:56I've only spoken to Milo once we had a
56:57long conversation about video games he
57:00was when he was on gamergate yeah and um
57:03and I like the men you know I mean I got
57:04along with him he has done some stuff
57:06that's so vicious partly to my friend
57:08Ben Shapiro which I resent because he's
57:10my friend um an anti-semitic and and he
57:15has G given shelter to anti-semites
57:17which I always feel the minute I I see
57:20anti-Semitism it is the canary in the
57:22coine you know that's where like evil
57:23dwells basically they usually go for the
57:25Jews for the Jews first and like so
57:29there's stuff that he's done that I just
57:31think is great and I wish that he would
57:35uh you know find himself in a somewhat
57:38better place because there is such a
57:40thing even though I believe everyone
57:41should be allowed to speak there are
57:42some things that are that when spoken
57:44are reprehensible you know I mean so
57:47well there's there's consequences for
57:48your speech that's right you know and
57:50when I hear him uh you know I don't know
57:54the Jew remarks and the and the kind of
57:57um the kind of
57:59hateful allowing hatefulness to be cute
58:02allowing it to be ironic saying you know
58:04I've heard him say for instance I've
58:06heard him say when when our generation
58:09is anti-Semitic they're just being
58:11ironical and I think like yeah that's a
58:12snake that's going to bite back you know
58:14I don't I don't really buy into that and
58:16and so I like what he's doing I don't
58:19always like the way that he's doing it
58:21or what he's doing it in service to but
58:23certainly when he had what was called
58:26the dangerous tour you know I
58:28laughed out loud I thought I want more
58:29of those guys I mean that was bre B and
58:31I used to have this conversation all the
58:33time you know when I first met Breitbart
58:35he kind of enlisted me into the LA right
58:38as he did almost all of us uh you know I
58:41said to him I want to tell you right up
58:42front that I'm not going in for this gay
58:45stuff this anti-gay stuff because I
58:47think we're going to lo I said a we're
58:48going to lose which is no shame but
58:50we're going to lose and be wrong and
58:51that's a shame that's really shameful
58:53and Breitbart said to me what I want is
58:55more patriotic gay porn and I said sign
58:58me up
59:00brother two straight guys demanding more
59:02patriotic gay porn that's how much you
59:05people love we weren't going to watch it
59:06but we thought it should be there you
59:08know and and so I think that you know I
59:10have this conversation with people about
59:12Milo all the time I see a good that he
59:16is doing I see dangers in the way he's
59:19doing it and I think you can be too
59:21ironical about too much because there is
59:22a moral universe and you do not want to
59:25you do not want to blow yourself through
59:26it yeah do you think that's kind of the
59:27fyan bargain that you have to play
59:29you're getting what you want what you've
59:31wanted here and you as a guy that's been
59:32through the Hollywood Machine too so
59:34you're you're getting the culture wins
59:36that really if he had let's say he had
59:38done you know been a little more careful
59:41with his language not done some of the
59:43unnecessary overthe toop stuff or
59:44whatever that it might have uh it might
59:48have shaved some of the the good part
59:50that you want yeah it maybe just
59:52wouldn't have broke through the same way
59:53that is that's kind of what the the
59:54Trump the trumpan bar I would say that
59:58only a guy as uncaring about the
1:00:01niceties would have driven his truck
1:00:04into the media the way he did and I
1:00:06think that does it come with moral
1:00:08hazards yes do people have to speak up
1:00:10about those moral hazards and take the
1:00:11flak from the right when they say you
1:00:13know oh you're a and you're all
1:00:14these things yes we have to take that
1:00:16Flack but it has to be done because I
1:00:19think we had reached a Tipping Point I
1:00:21hate to use a a cliched phrase like that
1:00:23but I think we had reached a Tipping
1:00:25Point where we were sounding very much
1:00:28like a communist country like there was
1:00:30things that you could say that made you
1:00:32Persona nrata that there were opinions
1:00:34you could have that you know the trapo
1:00:38like the James Bond villain you had to
1:00:39be dropped through the trapo I think we
1:00:41were at a dangerous point and if we and
1:00:43political correctness is a smothering
1:00:46toxic uh
1:00:48evil device for making lying seem like a
1:00:52virtue and if Donald Trump destroys
1:00:54political correctness he will have done
1:00:56a great thing I mean a great thing and
1:01:00that there that ha moral hazards come
1:01:02along with that I think we shouldn't
1:01:03forget it and you know a good example of
1:01:05this was when they shut down Shakespeare
1:01:07in the park the other day now
1:01:08Shakespeare that was reprehensible to
1:01:10assassinate the president on stage I
1:01:12really think you know as a as a
1:01:13Shakespeare fan I think that it was an
1:01:16awful awful thing to do but they would
1:01:18have done the same thing if it was Obama
1:01:19right
1:01:22exactly but to shut them down and to
1:01:24have my friends you know writing that
1:01:27this was a good thing you know that
1:01:30that's a mistake yeah I completely agree
1:01:32because now what you're saying it's okay
1:01:34to fight to say well we've got to be as
1:01:35tough as the left but to say we've got
1:01:37to be as tough as the left for things
1:01:39that the left would approve of like
1:01:40shutting down free speech that doesn't
1:01:42make any sense to me yeah and that's why
1:01:44both and that's why again these sides
1:01:46the sides are just becoming y
1:01:49meaningless and nonsense I think that
1:01:51that's a really good observation because
1:01:52I do think that I I and I I this is the
1:01:56problem I have with the right right now
1:01:57is I keep saying to them you know you're
1:01:59right they're they're disturbed because
1:02:01the conservative movement has
1:02:02essentially collapsed when Trump swept
1:02:05all those guys off the stage the way he
1:02:07did in the primaries the conservative
1:02:09movement was done for and my response to
1:02:11that is fix it you know put it back
1:02:13together differently you know get it's a
1:02:16new world make a new conservative
1:02:18conservatism you don't have to get rid
1:02:20of your principles you don't have to get
1:02:21rid of your big principles but you might
1:02:23have to get rid of some of the ways
1:02:24those principles Express themselves
1:02:26world yeah so is that just that's just
1:02:27real politic right I mean it seems to me
1:02:29you're just you're just viewing the
1:02:30world as it is not as you want it to be
1:02:32so if you if you had a guy like uh like
1:02:34Bill Crystal where it's like he wants
1:02:37that conservative thing to exist again
1:02:40yes I don't think you can make that
1:02:42happen or you certainly can't it's going
1:02:43to go through several other iterations
1:02:45before it was ever to get back to
1:02:47something like that yeah no I'm
1:02:48interested in guys like Henry Olson who
1:02:50are basically saying pointing out that
1:02:52Reagan was kind of an FDR Democrat more
1:02:55than anything else and he invented kind
1:02:57of modern
1:02:58conservatism I'm I'm interested in guys
1:03:00who say look this is the field of play
1:03:03and this is where we want to get see
1:03:05this is this is the thing that I know
1:03:07that I noticed a lot of commentators
1:03:08don't I know where I want to get I want
1:03:09to get to more freedom I have more
1:03:11freedom now 6 months after the election
1:03:13of Donald Trump 7even months after the
1:03:15election of Donald Trump than I did
1:03:16eight months ago no question to my mind
1:03:19the fact that the EPA can't now rule my
1:03:21sink a Waterway and and declare that
1:03:24they can now tell me whether I can shake
1:03:25or not you know I think that that makes
1:03:27me more free I think judge but that
1:03:29being said Trump may not be great on
1:03:30imminent domain right because he might
1:03:32want this wall to cut through you know
1:03:34who knows where the hell Wall's at now
1:03:35but he I I assure you he would have no
1:03:37problem using imminent domain to make it
1:03:39cut through private property no they're
1:03:41all these dangers involved and so I just
1:03:44want to see is the ball moving in the
1:03:46freedom Direction all the time and right
1:03:47now it is and you know I definitely see
1:03:50moral hazards I definitely look at a guy
1:03:52Milo I mean he's such a good example cuz
1:03:55I look at him
1:03:56and there are things that he does that I
1:03:57make me laugh out loud and I just think
1:04:00it's wonderful he's here and then
1:04:02suddenly he'll say something and I'll
1:04:04think
1:04:05except you don't want to you don't want
1:04:07to give Credence to hatred and and evil
1:04:10you know I mean it evil evil is bigger
1:04:12than irony and evil will eat irony you
1:04:14know and so you want to be careful about
1:04:16that I feel that that could have been
1:04:18the ending but I'm going to I'm going to
1:04:20ask you one other thing which is do you
1:04:22fear perhaps that these forces which
1:04:25have grown so fat and were so drunk on
1:04:28their own power and all that now that
1:04:30it's starting to crumble do you fear
1:04:33that they will hit back on people like
1:04:35you and people like me and whoever in a
1:04:38way that we may don't we may not
1:04:40understand yet in other words that that
1:04:41that thing that they did with the Han
1:04:43solo and the GIF or the meme was
1:04:48uh a warning shot only of the way that
1:04:50they're going to try to treat the people
1:04:52who go against them well I think we've
1:04:54seen it with these leaks from the
1:04:55intelligence Community about Donald
1:04:57Trump did this and they turned out some
1:04:58of these leaks turned out not to be true
1:05:00but the Press was perfectly happy to say
1:05:03sources within the intelligence
1:05:04Community former officials and you think
1:05:06well what does a former official know
1:05:08didn't matter they were putting a front
1:05:09page that was a front page on the New
1:05:10York Times The Washington Post they were
1:05:13that was the Deep State striking back
1:05:14there's no question about it they're
1:05:16going to continue to fight this is a
1:05:18genuine battle this is a genuine battle
1:05:20for you know I hate to say it but it's a
1:05:22battle for the future I mean I think
1:05:23that this Global World which has many
1:05:26good things in it I think free trade and
1:05:28and Global Communication and all this
1:05:30also allowed a small group of people to
1:05:34make decisions un unelected people to
1:05:37make decisions for for people who had no
1:05:39way to redress their Grievances and I
1:05:43think that that can't be you know if
1:05:45we're going to become a global world
1:05:46then I want America to take it over
1:05:48basically I'm an imperialist in that
1:05:50regard if we if the world's going to be
1:05:51Global fine but everybody's living under
1:05:53the Constitution you know that's the way
1:05:54it's going to be if not if everybody's
1:05:56not living under the Constitution and
1:05:58Saudi Arabia doesn't want to live under
1:06:00the Constitution then I want Saudi
1:06:01Arabia to stay in Saudi Arabia and I
1:06:03want Saudi Arabians to stay in Saudi
1:06:06Arabia unless they want to come over
1:06:07here to live under the Constitution so
1:06:09those are the choices you know that's an
1:06:11interesting way to frame either we all
1:06:12either it's a global world run by the
1:06:14Constitution or America First well
1:06:17Andrew a anonymous source on Capitol
1:06:20Hill is telling me right now that this
1:06:23was an excellent interview oh it's
1:06:24always a pleasure to talk I hope we can
1:06:27continue the conversation you know I get
1:06:28my my anonymous source on Cal Hill is
1:06:30from Gloria bour she's always quoting
1:06:31this Anonymous like you're talking to
1:06:33the janitor like Source on Capital Hill
1:06:35it's anybody well that's what I want
1:06:37people to understand it's anybody it's
1:06:38all made up it's been a pleasure talking
1:06:40to you as always and for more on Andrew
1:06:42check him out on the Andrew claven show
1:06:44brilliant Name by the way where you I
1:06:45know it amazing we work for ages on it
1:06:48the Andrew claven show it's right here
1:06:50on the
1:06:51[Music]
1:06:54YouTube
1:06:59[Music]

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