Lecture 6: Contracts with Rocco Machciavello — Transcript
Full transcript
- 0:01approach
- 0:31right
- 0:32now
- 0:33[Music]
- 1:10wonderful thank you for uh joining us uh
- 1:12today which on this uh sixth lecture in
- 1:15this uh course on funds and development
- 1:17uh just a reminder that all the other
- 1:19lectures are posted uh on the course
- 1:22website which will drop a link to uh in
- 1:25the uh chat
- 1:27um and uh Rocco's uh slides uh if
- 1:30they're not already there we'll also be
- 1:32posted
- 1:33um so we're uh very lucky today to have
- 1:35a Rocco machiavello who who are
- 1:37undoubtedly uh is the world expert on
- 1:41topics related to our firms contracts
- 1:43and development which is what he's gonna
- 1:45be talking about how does this link into
- 1:46some of our broader discussions uh well
- 1:49uh you know
- 1:51contracts are obviously vital in firms
- 1:54securing uh inputs uh required uh uh to
- 1:58to produce and as we kind of showed in
- 2:00the first lecture uh potentially poor
- 2:02Contracting environments lead to
- 2:04distorted input use maybe a
- 2:07misallocation uh
- 2:09of various inputs in the production
- 2:12process and so this fits uh very much
- 2:15along with the labor and capital
- 2:16lectures yesterday in kind of trying to
- 2:19dive into those various uh uh uh
- 2:22distortions uh that Pete uh talked about
- 2:24so Rocco I'll leave it to you to take
- 2:27away and uh we're thrilled to have you
- 2:31well first of all thank you so much
- 2:32David uh and Dave for the invitation and
- 2:35the introduction and then also good
- 2:37morning good afternoon and for some
- 2:39people also good evening everyone
- 2:41so yes I'm gonna talk about uh some very
- 2:44selected topics and maybe try to
- 2:46highlight some open area uh um in
- 2:49relationship to firms contracts and and
- 2:51development yeah
- 2:53So the plan is that I'll start with some
- 2:56very brief General remarks on
- 2:57Contracting problems okay at the very
- 3:00high level and uh and then all those
- 3:03have been looked at uh in the
- 3:05development economics literature in a
- 3:07very selected way and then I'm gonna
- 3:09kind of move on and talk specifically
- 3:11about the relationship between firms
- 3:13that motivate why I think that's a good
- 3:15angle to take to sort of think about
- 3:17some of the themes that have already
- 3:18emerged in the previous lectures
- 3:20and then we in particularly focus on
- 3:23studies that uh
- 3:25look at the dynamic incentive
- 3:28compatibility constraints that are kind
- 3:30of embedded if you like a lot of the uh
- 3:31the foundation of these long-term
- 3:33relationships between firms
- 3:35now if I have time I'll talk a little
- 3:37bit about relationship and Market
- 3:39structure and then uh I hope to have
- 3:41some time to highlight some open areas
- 3:43and future work I think this is
- 3:45generally speaking an area that is at
- 3:47the same time very vast but also still
- 3:50uh whatever still a room for a lot of
- 3:52work and a lot of exciting
- 3:54so and broadly speaking there are many
- 3:58different types of contractual
- 3:59imperfections so the economic theory on
- 4:02uh Contracting problem is uh enormous uh
- 4:05kind of we can say that maybe started
- 4:07originating and really taking off in the
- 4:0870s and 80s and then later actually also
- 4:11the empirical literature on a contract
- 4:13as a as a as a sort of exploded uh in
- 4:17development but also in other field so
- 4:19if you can think of asymmetric
- 4:20information like more or less or other
- 4:21selection you can think of cases in
- 4:24which actually
- 4:25there's no problem with asymmetric
- 4:27information uh there's observability but
- 4:29non-verifiability so it's a core that
- 4:31cannot observe and therefore uh enforce
- 4:33the contract so for instance holding
- 4:35complete contracts framework is built
- 4:37around that uh there's also modeling
- 4:39approaches that take more uh explicit
- 4:41into account transaction costs for
- 4:43instance costly State verification model
- 4:45okay
- 4:46in all these cases however we can say at
- 4:49least in a very vague sense that market
- 4:50markets are incomplete it is not all the
- 4:53things that matter are inade adequately
- 4:56priced okay because they cannot be put
- 4:58in a contract and we cannot have prices
- 5:00sort of at reflect the opportunity cost
- 5:02of resources if you like uh adequately
- 5:04so you know obviously
- 5:06um most of you will have heard examples
- 5:08in Insurance Market thinking in terms of
- 5:10the arrow the broad framework others
- 5:13will have seen sort of credit markets in
- 5:14which there is other selection and
- 5:16therefore the sort of pecuniary
- 5:18externalities that risky borrowers
- 5:20imposed on other borrowers in the
- 5:21markets uh other if you've studied
- 5:23development there's a long traditional
- 5:25study Hungarian institution and kind of
- 5:27trying to understand why share cropping
- 5:29is is so prevalent in agriculture in
- 5:32many parts of the world generally
- 5:35speaking the empirical nature of your
- 5:37own contracts has the goal of uncovering
- 5:40the underlying Market imperfection the
- 5:42underlying contractual imperfection in
- 5:45order to design a Better Contracting
- 5:47solution maybe even better policy
- 5:49Solutions
- 5:51and indeed so what I've just sold I
- 5:54think is a general uh about the
- 5:57literature trading contracts but given
- 5:58this type of question and these premises
- 6:00is no surprise that historically uh in
- 6:03the intellectual tradition in the field
- 6:05there's been a very tight connection
- 6:07between development of contract
- 6:09economics and the economics of
- 6:11development yeah so for instance here is
- 6:12a quote this paper presents a struggling
- 6:15attempt to give structure to the
- 6:16statement business in underdeveloped
- 6:18countries is difficult okay and I don't
- 6:21know uh if we can have a quick round of
- 6:24people that can say who recognize the
- 6:26quote otherwise I'll tell you anyone
- 6:29recognize the quote
- 6:31this is in the first paragraph of Uncle
- 6:33of the market for lemon so this is just
- 6:36a an example say one of the foundational
- 6:38papers in uh information economics and
- 6:41uh and contractual economics actually
- 6:43yeah there's a starting motivation sort
- 6:45of trying to understand under
- 6:46development or the fact that it's
- 6:48difficult to do business in India okay
- 6:51and So within development uh the
- 6:53empirical understanding of contracts of
- 6:55course has done has improved under our
- 6:57understanding of many different markets
- 6:59uh for instance all the literature on
- 7:01insurance and particular informal
- 7:02Insurance within communities we can
- 7:04think about the literature from credit
- 7:05Market uh the very nice paper by Karen
- 7:09and Zeman on you know kind of designing
- 7:11an experiment to entangle their
- 7:13selection and more or less or in the
- 7:15consumer credit Market comes to mind
- 7:16there's a fascinating work on
- 7:19Contracting in markets for water which
- 7:21is a very uh important resource in
- 7:23agriculture and you know kind of plaque
- 7:25by Contracting problems of all types and
- 7:28then uh already I mentioned
- 7:29sharecropping and many others and of
- 7:31course among these there's also been
- 7:33work and this is where we are going to
- 7:35discuss a little bit more during this
- 7:36lecture hopefully on contracts and firms
- 7:39okay so how Contracting problems affect
- 7:43firms uh performance and organizations
- 7:46in developing countries the ninja three
- 7:48I would say is a little bit smaller
- 7:50maybe than some of the owner literature
- 7:52in development that looks at Contracting
- 7:54problems that I've just mentioned so
- 7:56just kind of uh mention three kind of uh
- 7:59I would say by now classic relatively
- 8:01early work in uh in this trend so the
- 8:05first one is the banner you do for now
- 8:06nowadays classic study on reputation
- 8:09effects in the software uh industry in
- 8:12India and um that's a paper essentially
- 8:16that shows how variables that are
- 8:18arguably correlated with reputation
- 8:20think about for instance the age of the
- 8:22firm that is strongly correlate with the
- 8:24type of contraceptive these software
- 8:26development firms and up end up getting
- 8:28okay and um you know one nice thing
- 8:32about about this paper is that very much
- 8:34like it's kind of customer or
- 8:36traditional in development the authors
- 8:38went out there to collect their own data
- 8:40they conducted a survey of about if I
- 8:42remember correctly a bit more than 120
- 8:44firms maybe about 150 contracts so that
- 8:47that these approach of sort of
- 8:50you know we desire to study Contracting
- 8:52problems by just relying on sort of
- 8:54off-the-shelf data I think kind of he
- 8:56goes a little bit some of the themes
- 8:57that Eric has talked about in maybe
- 8:59lecture two on upgrading and sort of the
- 9:02the need to try to measure things uh
- 9:04directly uh Chris Woodruff uh who
- 9:07yesterday told us about credit markets
- 9:09and returns to Capital of course uh
- 9:11after his PhD was one of the uh he was
- 9:14doing a lot of work on contracts so for
- 9:16instance this fascinating paper that he
- 9:18has on vertical integration uh in the
- 9:20Mexican Footwear industry where
- 9:22basically by distinguishing across
- 9:24different segments uh women's versus Men
- 9:27shows he tries essentially to test for
- 9:30and distinguish between the different
- 9:31theories of the firm and then um you
- 9:34know we couldn't we could say that maybe
- 9:36the work also uh on Capital Market
- 9:39imperfections so for instance the work
- 9:41by abijit manager and kaiban munchie in
- 9:44the looking at Miss allocation of
- 9:45capital in the tirupore industry is also
- 9:48kind of related uh to Contracting
- 9:50problems because ultimately uh the
- 9:53capital is an input one is particularly
- 9:55fungible maybe as an input but there is
- 9:58still an input and so the kind of
- 9:59Contracting problem that Capital markets
- 10:02often also do plug uh other other input
- 10:05markets so that's kind of if you like a
- 10:07special case of a uh most likely the
- 10:09kind of marketing credit marketing
- 10:10profession they discuss in that paper
- 10:12originate from some underlying
- 10:14Contracting Contracting problem okay now
- 10:16there's been of course more recent
- 10:17contribution and an uncoverables later
- 10:21both a theoretical argument and
- 10:24empirical observation can suggests that
- 10:26repeated interaction can help firms to
- 10:29overcome or ameliorate or a surge if you
- 10:32like
- 10:33these Contracting problems okay
- 10:35so again to mention two early
- 10:39papers
- 10:41specifically on relationships and which
- 10:44is going to be the focus of my of my
- 10:46lecture and development don't MacMillan
- 10:48and Chris Woodruff at the really
- 10:50landmark and now again a classic paper
- 10:53on relational Contracting and informal
- 10:55Contracting between firms in Vietnam
- 10:58Vietnam at the time was a very
- 11:00interesting case because it was starting
- 11:01the transition uh and courts in general
- 11:04were not very well functioning so they
- 11:07kind of consider a little bit how search
- 11:09cost to search for alternative trading
- 11:12partners as well as absence of legal
- 11:15enforcement of contract affect the
- 11:18extent of Trade Credit between these
- 11:21manufacturing firms in in Vietnam again
- 11:23this is a again a case where uh
- 11:26development economists go to the field
- 11:28design a survey and collect original
- 11:30data from the survey unlike the binary
- 11:32Loop flow paper they do not focus on a
- 11:35specific sector so the question are kind
- 11:37of more General if you like they are
- 11:38applicable to and relevant to many
- 11:41different
- 11:42sectors and what they document are kind
- 11:45of patterns that are strongly consistent
- 11:48if you like with the sort of theoretical
- 11:50models of of relational Contracting in
- 11:52particular they show that the longer
- 11:54duration of a trading relationship which
- 11:56probably correlates with trust is
- 11:58associated with uh with more Trade
- 12:00Credit and so is also the cost of of the
- 12:03partner to find alternative sources of
- 12:06uh of uh of inputs okay so partners that
- 12:08have more trouble in finding alternative
- 12:11suppliers are more likely to receive
- 12:13Trade Credit from their supplier this
- 12:14again because these difficulty in
- 12:16switching presumably is kind of
- 12:17conducive to some some trust there's a
- 12:20lot of other work similar work of course
- 12:22I mean the the paper is very highly
- 12:24cited this type of regression has been
- 12:25done in many other contexts there's a
- 12:28lot of work for instance by Marcel
- 12:29fashion and and many other at CSA talks
- 12:33or that look specifically uh the
- 12:34informal relationship and how they
- 12:36affect the the behavior of the
- 12:38organization and the performance of of
- 12:40firms in African context for instance
- 12:43and the other point I want to uh maybe
- 12:46make here is that in a companion paper
- 12:48to this Vietnam paper with Simon Johnson
- 12:50uh as well as John McMillan and Chris
- 12:53Woodruff also a little bit again through
- 12:55survey questioners I sort of try to
- 12:58consider what is the role of Court
- 13:00um and there what they show is that um
- 13:03believes in the effectiveness of course
- 13:05in transition economy is actually very
- 13:07strongly correlate with the firm's
- 13:10willingness at least self-reported
- 13:12willingness to try out new partners so
- 13:15that might suggest this sort of earlier
- 13:17survey evidence that well although
- 13:20relationships are indeed uh potentially
- 13:23important to help firm sustained trade
- 13:25at the same time it's not that courts
- 13:27they fully substitute for courts courts
- 13:29are still a very important maybe in
- 13:31order to generate an environment in
- 13:34which trading partners with comfortable
- 13:36experimenting with uh with with other uh
- 13:39clients and suppliers okay so now what I
- 13:42will uh you know having kind of wrapped
- 13:45up is a very broad uh introduction to
- 13:48some of the themes and and if you like
- 13:50more kind of classic work in in this
- 13:52field again highly selected of course I
- 13:55will now focus on a recent work
- 13:56specifically on firm relationship okay
- 14:00and I will try to uh sort of Island as
- 14:04much as possible and a little bit more
- 14:05precise way the connection between this
- 14:08topic with the things that have already
- 14:10been discussed in the in the previous
- 14:12lectures okay but maybe this is a good
- 14:16moment to take a quick pause to see if
- 14:18there are any questions uh before I sort
- 14:21of move on
- 14:23hi Jonathan yes
- 14:27hi thanks rocker obviously interested
- 14:31you you mentioned trust and I saw you
- 14:33published recently on informal contracts
- 14:35I wonder whether United comment between
- 14:38formal and informal contracts and the
- 14:40relationship then of social networks to
- 14:43that for example the
- 14:45uh Indian networks in in East Africa and
- 14:49in southern Africa and other places that
- 14:52seem to have contributed to uh trust in
- 14:56Contracting and whether this has an
- 14:58effect on the larger economy because
- 15:01it's just totally um anecdotally it gets
- 15:03I get the sense that paranoid Nigeria's
- 15:06missing middle is the lack of trust to
- 15:09create larger organizations other small
- 15:11ones
- 15:14uh
- 15:15oh not yet in a feels like I agree uh is
- 15:18a is a topic which I'll uh maybe return
- 15:20very vaguely uh in a few slides so I was
- 15:23I think I thought it was already in the
- 15:25next slide
- 15:26um yeah so there's um there are several
- 15:29interesting issues here with regard to
- 15:31trust uh the first one is uh what is the
- 15:34role so first of all we use the word the
- 15:37trust in two very different ways right
- 15:38and uh and I'll come to that in a second
- 15:40one is within the context of a
- 15:43relationship maybe we have in mind some
- 15:44sort of repeated game and under certain
- 15:46condition if some conditions are
- 15:48satisfied I trust that you will behave
- 15:50in a certain way and that's one notion
- 15:52of trust we also use the word trust
- 15:55however in the sense of generalized
- 15:57trust like historical norms and there's
- 15:59a lot of work that shows that there is
- 16:01enormous cross-country or cross Regional
- 16:03variation in the extent which these
- 16:05Norms are adhered to and to the extent
- 16:07which uh people trust each other so in
- 16:10the lecture I'm gonna specifically talk
- 16:12about the firmer notion of trust as it
- 16:14would become clear in a second
- 16:17so thinking specifically about the pair
- 16:19however I also think that the
- 16:21generalized Trust of the societal Norms
- 16:23are very important to think about our
- 16:26trust in a bilateral pair emerge and
- 16:28under which condition uh parties will
- 16:30end up trusting each other
- 16:32um there's there's a lot of descriptive
- 16:34work but I don't think that there is a
- 16:36at least I'm not aware of a lot of work
- 16:38that establishes a connection between
- 16:41the variation in uh Norms of trust and
- 16:46actual contractual outcomes in terms of
- 16:49uh um either the form or the structure
- 16:51of relationship
- 16:53two papers come to mind one is a paper
- 16:55by a former student of mine Arthur
- 16:57Blowin uh he has a paper in the AJ where
- 17:00he showed us that uh sort of the
- 17:02colonial history in the context of
- 17:04Rwanda Burundi that is strongly
- 17:06correlated with trusts in the attitudes
- 17:07today seems to affect also the tape and
- 17:11the form of uh interaction or contracts
- 17:13between between parties and then more
- 17:15recently we see gadan and quarters uh
- 17:18they use uh uh v80 so business to
- 17:21business data in uh in in Bangladesh
- 17:24sorry in India I think where they also
- 17:26have information on the cast to which uh
- 17:29the firms belong to kind of check
- 17:31whether
- 17:32this community networks that presumably
- 17:35can are us a little bit more trust and
- 17:37if we were just in an anonymous Market
- 17:39whether that kind of correlates with the
- 17:41prevalence of uh of uh of uh and and
- 17:43shape of firms to firm transaction but I
- 17:46agree that uh more work would be needed
- 17:49and I think this is a maybe point one or
- 17:51two in my uh in my concluding slides on
- 17:53open areas for for future work partly
- 17:55because it could be that in a partial
- 17:57equilibrium sense having a relatively
- 18:00close community that Foster ties but
- 18:02remember is very good and it allows uh
- 18:05firms to overcome Contracting problems
- 18:07I'm thinking here for instance about the
- 18:08work of time and motion the diamond
- 18:10industry but at the same time from a
- 18:12micro perspective right this kind of
- 18:14type Community might generate Distortion
- 18:16might prevent uh better matches uh uh
- 18:19and so forth and I think that we don't
- 18:21have very good evidence on sort of our
- 18:23veteranoff is resolved
- 18:27so just a very long answer to say I this
- 18:30is a fascinating topic it won't be
- 18:32square and Center here but
- 18:35but yeah which I think is very important
- 18:38all right so uh unless there are other
- 18:40questions I'll move on and uh kind of
- 18:42start zooming in a little bit on
- 18:43relationships between firms and I plan
- 18:46to First motivate why do a little bit
- 18:49more in detail why it might be important
- 18:51as a development Economist to think
- 18:52about this relationship between firms
- 18:54and then I'll talk about uh some
- 18:57empirical work uh some more recent
- 18:59empirical work
- 19:00nope
- 19:02um dealing on Williamson won the his
- 19:05Nobel Prize for sort of introducing a
- 19:07transaction cost economics and the study
- 19:09of governance forms uh uh into
- 19:11mainstream economics we can think
- 19:13roughly speaking that there are three
- 19:15broad governance forms to organize
- 19:18transactions right a given transaction
- 19:20can be organized in the spot Market
- 19:22that's kind of what we teach in our EC
- 19:24101 you could also the same transaction
- 19:27of course could be organized within a
- 19:29firm so instead of using the price
- 19:32mechanism and the centralized sort of
- 19:34information to allocate resources we use
- 19:36Authority okay that's typically in ec101
- 19:39what we put uh into a black box is a
- 19:41production function but of course is
- 19:43what uh instead is the object of study
- 19:46of of other fields and then in between
- 19:48these two extreme so the market that
- 19:50uses prices to allocate resources and
- 19:52firms that use hierarchies or
- 19:54authorities or allocate resources there
- 19:57are long-term relationship between firms
- 19:58or what the Williamson referred to as a
- 20:01as e Breeze okay and they are their
- 20:04leader firms nor Market really because
- 20:06certainly they are not Market in the
- 20:08sense that the price is not the only
- 20:09thing that is used to allocate resources
- 20:12there's a lot of bargaining there's a
- 20:13lot of discussion there's a lot of kind
- 20:15of coordination but at the same time
- 20:17because the two parties are separate
- 20:19there's no formal authority of one party
- 20:21over the other so there's no sense in
- 20:23which a supplier can tell that their
- 20:26their customer what the customer is
- 20:28supposed to do or vice versa I mean at
- 20:30least outside the scope of whatever is
- 20:32in the enforceable contract
- 20:34so I'm prevalent our long-term
- 20:36relationship I think this asking this
- 20:38question matters because
- 20:40um it matters whether you know whether
- 20:43in a way we use a description of the
- 20:45economies that are some vaguely accurate
- 20:48in terms of what's the relative
- 20:49importance of this governance part and
- 20:51if you look at the US economy this this
- 20:54graph is not Based on data it's an
- 20:56illustration but if you look at the US
- 20:58economy so the market economy par
- 21:00Excellence you know at about 40 or 30 to
- 21:0440 percent of uh uh income essentially a
- 21:08value added actually he's done by the
- 21:10government so that's really something
- 21:11that is not done by markets
- 21:14within the part that is done by the
- 21:16private sector if you look at the value
- 21:18of the data in the census it looks like
- 21:20about 50 percent of the value on that
- 21:22takes place kind of within firms okay so
- 21:25that's also another well known fact by
- 21:27industrial economy so about half of the
- 21:29activities of the of the eclipse off of
- 21:31the activity of the private sector in
- 21:33the market economy by Excellence doesn't
- 21:35take place in in markets
- 21:38what about the remaining between firms
- 21:40okay how much of that is actually
- 21:42markets and no markets relationship we
- 21:43don't know because typically census data
- 21:46do not uh contain information on the
- 21:49identity of the trading partner so they
- 21:50don't allow us to really understand
- 21:52whether this is a market or whether the
- 21:54transaction is organized in some other
- 21:55ways however we can look at Customs data
- 21:58and Customs data in the US tell us that
- 22:00about 80 percent of all U.S Imports
- 22:03occur in pre-existing relationships okay
- 22:06so it looks like if you look at another
- 22:07place custom so internet transaction
- 22:09that cross-borders of goods that come
- 22:12into the US the vast majority of the
- 22:14transaction that do not occur within
- 22:16firms about 30 percent even there occur
- 22:18with inference actually do not seem to
- 22:20occur in stock markets they seem to
- 22:22occur in some between people that trade
- 22:24repeatedly uh this fact has been
- 22:27confirmed in uh in many other Customs
- 22:30there but you could kind of argue that
- 22:32you know International transaction
- 22:34longer distance higher asymmetric
- 22:37information costlier enforcement of
- 22:40course if we use relationships to
- 22:42mitigate this problem looking at Customs
- 22:44doesn't really give us an accurate
- 22:46description of our prevalent
- 22:48relationships are it turns out that in
- 22:50recent er uh
- 22:52um researchers have gained access to uh
- 22:54uh typically firms to firms transaction
- 22:57level data this would almost always
- 23:00comes from vat type of Records
- 23:03um with various degree of detail so both
- 23:06for instance in developing countries uh
- 23:08uh you know they are available for as
- 23:11far as I know at least Chile Costa Rica
- 23:13Ecuador or many other countries and so
- 23:15one could imagine using kind of this
- 23:17data set to sort of create some
- 23:19systematic facts about how prevalent our
- 23:22repeated transaction between in this
- 23:25case relatively larger firms at least
- 23:26since these are creative data that
- 23:28comply with the taxation I haven't done
- 23:30that exercise uh it has been on my mind
- 23:32for a long time to put an email to
- 23:34people that have access to this data to
- 23:36ask them to compute a few basic
- 23:37statistics I wonder what we the other
- 23:40another way to go about this is to look
- 23:42at specific industry where we have good
- 23:44data and there I I just want to mention
- 23:46a couple of uh contexts where uh I I
- 23:48have the data so I can sort of compute
- 23:50these numbers and one is the context of
- 23:54uh answer this trades in Peru okay so uh
- 23:57imagine Wars that go out at Sea they
- 24:00they they catch fish then they bring it
- 24:02back to process in plan to produce fish
- 24:04meal this is actually an industry that
- 24:05has been studied in other papers with
- 24:08different with different focus and then
- 24:11the other industry I I can look a little
- 24:13bit that was number is uh in Costa Rica
- 24:15where again the regulator
- 24:18um typically those are regulated
- 24:19industry where we are we can access a
- 24:21good data
- 24:22um there because the regulator
- 24:24essentially looks after the the coffee
- 24:26sector in a way that generates a lot of
- 24:28data we can also look at what's the
- 24:30relative prevalence of these governance
- 24:32forms in that context and in both
- 24:33contexts the vast majority of food or
- 24:38coffee is intermediate either within
- 24:40vertical integrated Shades so processor
- 24:43that owns uh fishing boards or coffee
- 24:46exporters coffee meals or between
- 24:49players that have very long-term
- 24:51relationship I take like at least three
- 24:52years uh in the data as a very kind of
- 24:55conservative bomb
- 24:56and what is interesting is that if you
- 24:58think about this
- 25:00or if you think about coffee
- 25:02you might think that these are
- 25:03relatively simple good and in fact kind
- 25:05of homogeneous may be good or not very
- 25:07highly differentiated now for coffee we
- 25:10could distinct maybe there's an argument
- 25:11for fish as well but certainly less than
- 25:13many more specialized and customized
- 25:16inputs that we can think for more
- 25:18sophisticated production process
- 25:21and so what transaction cost fear you
- 25:23would suggest is that what should be
- 25:25places where if anything vertical
- 25:26integration and relationships should be
- 25:28relatively less prevalent okay so it
- 25:30might be in fact that this detailed
- 25:31studies give us lower bound of the
- 25:34prevalence of relationship
- 25:35in other words I would say with the
- 25:37bottom line
- 25:38um is that it seems to be that ec101
- 25:41market uh oops sorry this is a call from
- 25:46the iPad sorry about
- 25:48um it seems that can you see my slides
- 25:51um
- 25:52no no
- 25:53but you can now right but let's see very
- 25:56soon yes
- 25:58um so it seems that uh sort of the ec101
- 26:00market essentially the decentralized the
- 26:02stock market really is the exception
- 26:05it's not the typical way in which goods
- 26:08are intermediated
- 26:11and okay so I think that this is true
- 26:14not just in developing countries but
- 26:15also in reach in a high income countries
- 26:17there's a student from MIT this year on
- 26:20the market and going with a wonderful
- 26:22paper or long-term relationship in the
- 26:24U.S tracking industry and I think she
- 26:26argues that about 80 of the industries
- 26:28actually uh the parking lots is actually
- 26:30shipped through long-term relationship
- 26:32so tracking us maybe contract is not
- 26:35there uh so
- 26:37I believe that this fact that I
- 26:39mentioned in these slides is kind of uh
- 26:41a quiet purpose now why it might be
- 26:43particularly important if that's the
- 26:45case to study relationships in
- 26:47developing count
- 26:49what David and Dave and uh and and I
- 26:52think Pete that sort of argued uh or one
- 26:55one takeaway at least uh uh of uh of
- 26:58what I've earned during their election
- 26:59is that markets maybe don't function
- 27:01very well yeah
- 27:03then we have had I think uh Eric and
- 27:05Jing and uh
- 27:07uh to a certain extent also David and
- 27:10Chris at least in the part in which we
- 27:12focus on smaller firms also arguing that
- 27:14firms in developing countries are uh
- 27:17unproductive we are not very well
- 27:19managed they struggle to grow so they
- 27:21struggle to integrative that's what they
- 27:23need to do okay so crimes also do not
- 27:25function very well so if we go back to
- 27:27the free possibilities essentially to
- 27:29organize transaction markets
- 27:31relationship and firms it looks like the
- 27:33two Alternatives don't work very well
- 27:34they seems to be constrained it's not
- 27:36easy to grow large vertical integrated
- 27:38firms and are relatively few of those
- 27:40and then and then of course also the
- 27:43market seems to be plugged by all sorts
- 27:45of uh of imperfections okay and so that
- 27:47at least is the sense in which
- 27:48qualitatively studying relationship
- 27:50might be particularly important in
- 27:52developing countries now of course this
- 27:54this statement should be coveted in a in
- 27:56a in many different ways uh one way uh
- 28:01for lack of time which I think is
- 28:03important to cover this is that
- 28:04essentially so far I've made an argument
- 28:07based on the demand for relations right
- 28:09broadly speaking we have said well
- 28:10developing countries has a weaker
- 28:12institutional environment uh therefore
- 28:15even simple transaction maybe even
- 28:17simple transaction agricultural markets
- 28:19a simple trade credit loan uh the
- 28:22transaction of milk or maybe the
- 28:24transaction of fish even both simple
- 28:25transactions they cannot rely on formal
- 28:27contract enforcement so that increases
- 28:30the demand for relationships
- 28:33but what about the supply because it
- 28:35could be that the same factors that make
- 28:38a country underdeveloped also reduce the
- 28:41supply of relationships yeah so for
- 28:43instance it could be that generalized
- 28:45trust is very low in developing
- 28:46countries and there are Polaris are
- 28:48there to try out or even establish or uh
- 28:51while functioning relationship
- 28:53um chords might not be functioning very
- 28:55well and that again might restrict sort
- 28:57of the supply of uh of uh of
- 28:59relationship at the same time that um
- 29:02that it increases the demand for for
- 29:05long-term risk
- 29:07and then another aspect that I won't be
- 29:09able to emphasize a lot is that the
- 29:11choice of governance forms of course
- 29:13interact in equilibrium so Rachel
- 29:15Crampton has a very nice theoretical
- 29:17paper in the in the AR in 96 where she
- 29:21kind of tries to model the relationship
- 29:22between
- 29:24long-term relationship
- 29:26so forms of exchange that are supported
- 29:29by bilateral Trust
- 29:31and the emergence of spot Market
- 29:33if one advantage of spot Market is the
- 29:37liquidity so the fact that I easily find
- 29:38a match when I need in the spot Market
- 29:41if many trading partners are engaged in
- 29:44trading in bilateral relationships that
- 29:46will generate only SQL a very uh thin
- 29:49marketing which is difficult to find
- 29:51partners
- 29:52but then from the point of view of a
- 29:55firm that is choosing whether to trade
- 29:57in the market or try to establish a
- 29:58relationship that configuration the fact
- 30:01that many others are already active in
- 30:02relationship will make the market
- 30:03particularly less attractive and so
- 30:06there's maybe a strategic
- 30:07complementarity in the choice of
- 30:09governance forms across firms and so we
- 30:11shouldn't really be studying which is
- 30:13what I'm gonna do in a second these
- 30:15organizational forms choices in
- 30:17isolation yeah
- 30:18there can also be Arguments for why the
- 30:20organizational forms are actually
- 30:21strategic substitute the general point I
- 30:24want to do I like is that in a moment
- 30:26we're gonna study uh we're gonna review
- 30:28studies that study uh relationships
- 30:31specifically and kind of start your
- 30:33relationships so much in isolation but
- 30:35in fact we should also be thinking about
- 30:37how the choice of the organizational
- 30:39forms interact
- 30:42okay
- 30:44so this is probably another good moment
- 30:47to uh I hope I have motivated why I'm
- 30:50gonna focus on uh relationship between
- 30:52firms in the reminder of these uh this
- 30:55lecture and now maybe it's again a good
- 30:57time to to um
- 31:00take a break and see whatever our
- 31:01questions
- 31:09I don't see any questions so I'm gonna
- 31:12uh move on okay so now what I'm gonna do
- 31:16is that uh I think this is kind of the
- 31:18the main part of what I was hoping to
- 31:21cover today having motivated why might
- 31:23be useful to study relationship I'm
- 31:25gonna try to be a little bit more formal
- 31:27okay in thinking about relationship and
- 31:31uh
- 31:31will provide an approach to study
- 31:34long-term relationship between firms uh
- 31:37empirically okay and then I'll try to
- 31:39connect this work with some of the films
- 31:42that have come up in the in the earlier
- 31:44lectures
- 31:47so uh as Jonathan has sort of uh already
- 31:51I know that before we um we think that
- 31:54um we are talking about essentially a
- 31:56relationship based on trust there are
- 31:58two different Notions of trust it is
- 32:00another very nice quote from kanataro
- 32:02again kind of seemingly relating the
- 32:05problem of underdevelopment to a problem
- 32:07of of lack of trust
- 32:09there's an economist think about trust
- 32:11in two different ways either as a norm
- 32:13say generalized trust reciprocity that
- 32:15is enormous literature and labia
- 32:18evidence supporting that notion or
- 32:20within the context of repeated game
- 32:22framework from now on I'm gonna go down
- 32:25the repeated games framework group
- 32:31[Music]
- 32:34perform trust and uh overcome
- 32:37Contracting problems however all these
- 32:40different models some emphasizing all
- 32:42enforcement problems or their
- 32:44emphasizing Insurance consideration some
- 32:46emphasizing asymmetric information and
- 32:48so forth
- 32:49all these models rely on a common
- 32:51Insight namely the idea that the future
- 32:54rents are necessary to deter short-term
- 32:57opportunities okay so the simplest model
- 32:59that capture is inclusion of course is
- 33:01the repeated prisoner dilemma yeah
- 33:03suppose you have two players I'm playing
- 33:06a repeat a prisoner of the RAM and
- 33:07infinitely repeated prisoner dilemma
- 33:09with David if we both cooperate I get P
- 33:12of C
- 33:13if I deviate any cooperates I get paid
- 33:16off D but then maybe after he sees it I
- 33:19have deviated while he was expecting me
- 33:20to cooperate then maybe you know he's
- 33:22also going to be fact and then if we
- 33:24both the fact I get paid off P okay
- 33:27so of course I'll be willing to
- 33:29cooperate uh in this framework only if
- 33:32the payoff of cooperating today and then
- 33:34keep on doing so in the future is bigger
- 33:37than the short run temptation to defect
- 33:40okay which gives me pay off D but then
- 33:43of course uh uh being uh
- 33:47being followed by a period of of
- 33:49punishment okay so we can rearrange this
- 33:51expression and we see that the parties
- 33:53will be able to cooperate if the value
- 33:55of the relationship that stuff that is
- 33:57in the future okay
- 33:59is bigger than the current temptation to
- 34:01the vi
- 34:03and again this is a very simple model
- 34:05certainly a very simplistic model even
- 34:08but this tension between current
- 34:10Temptation that arise from the fact that
- 34:12the actions are non-contractable and
- 34:14future rents is what underpins all model
- 34:17of uh of long-term uh Contracting and
- 34:20repeated interactions okay and the
- 34:22problem if you're interested in doing
- 34:23empirics of course is that neither the
- 34:26future value of the relationship nor the
- 34:30right hand side the temptation to the VA
- 34:31are directly observing the data and
- 34:34there are various reasons why they are
- 34:36not directly observing the data one
- 34:38simple reason typically said on the
- 34:40equilibrium path we are cooperating if
- 34:42we expected not to cooperate there
- 34:43wouldn't be a relationship in the first
- 34:45place but then if we are on the
- 34:46equilibrium path
- 34:48punishment and the factions are not
- 34:50supposed to arise so you're not even
- 34:51supposed to see those in the data yeah
- 34:54at least if you take the standard uh
- 34:56framework so we need to find kind of to
- 34:58think a little bit more carefully about
- 35:00how we're going to study relationship
- 35:01empirical
- 35:03so one approach to measurement of course
- 35:06has been to say well you know let's give
- 35:08up on this and let's simply try to proxy
- 35:10for the uh this future value of the
- 35:13relationship for instance using
- 35:14relationship page uh so either measured
- 35:17in calendar time or a past transaction I
- 35:20would say 90 maybe 95 percent of the
- 35:23literature should actually follows this
- 35:24approach and it's an approach that is
- 35:26very intuitive because
- 35:27if two parties have traded repeatedly of
- 35:30course presumably they have more trust I
- 35:32mean you know these future value that is
- 35:35what allows them to overcome a current
- 35:37temptation is kind of loud however I
- 35:39have to say that uh the the the the key
- 35:43of course in the model
- 35:44is not the past stage per se right is
- 35:47there is this future is the promise of
- 35:49having this future rents uh in the
- 35:51relationship and so in a way we might
- 35:53say that relational
- 35:55um right it is different from repeated
- 35:58failure I always buy my sandwich in the
- 36:01same cafeteria at the lse but there's
- 36:03not really no relational trade so
- 36:04there's a lot of repeated trade there if
- 36:06you get access to virtil records you see
- 36:08that Rocco keeps keeps purchasing from
- 36:10them but there's no relational trade
- 36:12there's no future expectation of what
- 36:14they are supposed to do and and what I'm
- 36:16supposed to do other than you know what
- 36:18is kind of implied by by sort of
- 36:20um you know the social norms if you like
- 36:23of of buying croissant uh uh in London
- 36:25okay
- 36:27so there are other approaches one is to
- 36:29kind of try to write down specific
- 36:31models and then derive the proxies from
- 36:33this model for the prevalence of these
- 36:35rents
- 36:36another approach that is very related to
- 36:39uh what Eric has been discussing is to
- 36:42Simply go out there and try to measure
- 36:44directly what are these informal
- 36:46promises that parties make to each other
- 36:49and then presumably one could imagine
- 36:52also different types of other ways of
- 36:54sort of uncovering empirically whether
- 36:55there are relationships uh for instance
- 36:58we could simply estimate structural
- 37:00models uh and then kind of let the model
- 37:02kind of allow us to back out to this V
- 37:05or we could imagine try to use natural
- 37:07experiments okay uh for instance
- 37:10talks to Future traits talk to
- 37:12anticipation of future trade if a
- 37:15relationship is in place you cannot lead
- 37:16to an immediate change uh NBA
- 37:19so now we're gonna talk a little bit
- 37:21about a couple of papers that have uh
- 37:23that I've written with the with the with
- 37:25the different quarters with the meat
- 37:26market area who is now a teller than
- 37:28with Arthur Bloom who is now in Toronto
- 37:30that kind of try to take specifically
- 37:33this Dynamic incentive compatibility to
- 37:35constraint to the data and trying to
- 37:37learn from that
- 37:43so the first paper is the paper it is a
- 37:46paper in which uh Amit and myself study
- 37:48the uh Kenya flower export sector okay
- 37:52we turns out that Kenya exports a lot of
- 37:54roses
- 37:56uh would be fascinating to understand
- 37:57exactly why the industry developed
- 37:59better and so forth but I'm not going to
- 38:00talk about that
- 38:02but this is a market that is
- 38:03particularly convenient to study
- 38:05relationship and it is so for advance
- 38:08for a different reason first of all
- 38:10while we were able to get access to kind
- 38:12of a buyer sellers that are relatively
- 38:14well detailed I would say at least back
- 38:16back in the days so with transaction
- 38:18level records
- 38:20but the second thing that makes this uh
- 38:22marketing interesting is that no
- 38:25governance forms kind of coexist you
- 38:27either export process through long-term
- 38:29relationship with Buyers so you have a
- 38:31wholesaler or an important or browsers
- 38:33in the UK and you're just shipping these
- 38:36roses two or three times a week from
- 38:37Nairobi by playing to the wholesalers in
- 38:40the UK or you sell your roses on the
- 38:43Dutch option which are essentially the
- 38:44stock market par Excellence is a
- 38:46platform in the Netherlands where all
- 38:48contracts are enforced and then
- 38:49everybody kind of participate in the
- 38:51market and then bids for the Roses so
- 38:53the Dutch options are actually really
- 38:55kind of our ec101 Mark okay and those
- 38:58two forms coexist presumably because
- 39:00they kind of entail different uh uh
- 39:02transaction costs
- 39:04I mean the nice idea is that the
- 39:07presence of the spot market and
- 39:09therefore the reference price in the
- 39:11Dutch options gives us a potential
- 39:13handle on these Temptations to deviate
- 39:15which are typically not observed as I
- 39:17mentioned before
- 39:19and then the second thing we're going to
- 39:20also rely on a shock to kind of
- 39:22distinguish between different models of
- 39:24of transactions of a sort of
- 39:27relationship there is a couple of pets
- 39:30so the left figure looks at the over the
- 39:32week in the season the season the flower
- 39:35season so to speak starts in August
- 39:37September okay so these are the prices
- 39:40the weekly prices for roses are the dark
- 39:42souls for three different season and as
- 39:45you can see there's a seasonality that's
- 39:47not surprising because flowers are
- 39:49perishable so you can't store them and
- 39:51but the seasonality is very predictable
- 39:53so relative to the average price in the
- 39:55market around Valentine's Day which
- 39:57happens there or around Mother's Day
- 39:59which happens around this time depending
- 40:02on calendars and Country prices in the
- 40:04markets are always higher but kind of
- 40:06predictably so okay in contracts and
- 40:09this is just a raw data price is in
- 40:11relationship tend to be very very stable
- 40:13over the course of the season if David
- 40:15and I have a relationship we'll kind of
- 40:17agree a price and then we'll maybe
- 40:18renegotiated next year if we want to
- 40:20keep working together we don't use a lot
- 40:22of uh index prices uh in in this
- 40:25industry and I you know as you will see
- 40:28in a second or maybe not but you know in
- 40:30the paper we argue what we have an
- 40:31explanation for why that's okay and um
- 40:34um and of course the idea is that uh
- 40:37you know an index price uh will maybe
- 40:41um you know by tracking the stock market
- 40:43price when it goes up it reduces the
- 40:45temptation to debate for the seller but
- 40:47it maybe increases the Temptation from
- 40:48the V8 for the buyer so one implication
- 40:50of this relational Contracting model is
- 40:53that the incentive compatibility
- 40:54constraints of the two parties can be
- 40:56aggregated under certain circumstances
- 40:58therefore if that's the case using index
- 41:01prices actually doesn't help in uh in
- 41:03alleviating uh um uh enforcement
- 41:06constraint
- 41:07so from the perspective of a seller the
- 41:10seller could be cheating in many
- 41:11different ways but one way in which the
- 41:13seller could cheat in this market is by
- 41:16sending the promised amount of flowers
- 41:17in the relationship you see
- 41:20which is supposed to receive a price PC
- 41:23on the spot Market at Price PW
- 41:25and of course
- 41:27um you know
- 41:28the this temptation will be particularly
- 41:31strong at the Valentine's Day when the
- 41:34price in the market is very high
- 41:38in fact we have a the paper kind of
- 41:41develops a little bit of a test to check
- 41:42whether this constraint is binding or
- 41:45not the idea is that small price
- 41:47fluctuation and the times of Valentine's
- 41:49Day but is when these incentive
- 41:50constraints should be buying if it's
- 41:52binding at all so basically imply a a
- 41:55reduction in the volume traded in a
- 41:57relationship with an elasticity equal to
- 41:59what minus one which is exactly what we
- 42:01see in the data so but the point here is
- 42:04that uh all of a sudden we have
- 42:06observable proxies for Temptations to
- 42:09deviate in the data yeah the uh price in
- 42:13the market is observed and the price in
- 42:15the relationship and the volumes in the
- 42:17relationship are directly observed and
- 42:19so now we have a uh a measure at least a
- 42:22lower amount and in fact a tight bound
- 42:24if the incentive constraint is binding
- 42:25for the value of the relationship for
- 42:27the seller
- 42:29we can then compute this value of the
- 42:32relationship which is a is a
- 42:34is a summary if you like it is it's a
- 42:37dollar value that is directly observed
- 42:39in the data and what do we find
- 42:42uh just the script maybe this is comes
- 42:44out of the raw data are a couple of
- 42:46interesting facts well the first one is
- 42:48that uh these values are very large okay
- 42:51so if you for instance for the typical
- 42:53seller I believe this is about uh 300 if
- 42:57I remember correctly of the yearly
- 43:00Revenue in the relationship so if you
- 43:02think that you make a 10 margins on uh
- 43:06on on your relationship uh sorry uh uh I
- 43:09guess I'm getting it from 300 of the
- 43:11weekly volume in the relationship
- 43:13right so it would be six percent of the
- 43:16yearly Revenue in the relationship but
- 43:17if you make a profit margin of ten
- 43:19percent that would be sixty percent of
- 43:21your of the profits that you gained from
- 43:23that relationship
- 43:24um that's the the value of the
- 43:26relationship is equal to 60 of the
- 43:29profits that you make in a given Year
- 43:30from a relationship but a very large
- 43:31number
- 43:32and the fact that the number is large
- 43:34suggests right what does it say well it
- 43:37says that
- 43:39presumably uh that number is large
- 43:41because Temptations to deviate are very
- 43:43large so it means that there are a lot
- 43:45of trading opportunities that are
- 43:47probably valuable in this market but
- 43:49they don't take place because parties
- 43:51don't have enough relational Capital to
- 43:53overcome the associated Temptations to
- 43:55deviate
- 43:55yeah so the fact that relationship
- 43:57people are valuable is an indication
- 43:59that Contracting problems are very
- 44:01severe the second thing that we realize
- 44:03is that if you just pull up the
- 44:05distribution of his relationship value
- 44:07across groups of firms you see that
- 44:11um uh you know in a given year but the
- 44:14patterns is of course all across years
- 44:16and you know if you put this stuff in
- 44:17regressions you see that new
- 44:19relationships have generally speaking
- 44:21are less valuable than established
- 44:23relationship
- 44:25that of course could be due to selection
- 44:27and it is indeed the case that
- 44:28relationship that don't survive
- 44:30look to be less valuable according to
- 44:32this uh this measure that relationship
- 44:34that survived but it turns out that even
- 44:36if you control for selection
- 44:38relationship value increases over time
- 44:41so in this industry what happens is that
- 44:43over time as David and I kind of keep
- 44:45trading together maybe in the first year
- 44:47will be able only to stretch by a
- 44:50certain amount how much we can sell it
- 44:51to each other at Valentine's Day the
- 44:54year after he trusts me a little bit
- 44:56more I trust him a little bit more will
- 44:58be able to stretch more and more and
- 44:59more and more okay because that's
- 45:01essentially our proxy for uh
- 45:03relationship value
- 45:05and then finally we hand over use a
- 45:09sudden Supply shocks that prevented
- 45:11firms from being able to harvest flowers
- 45:14um this was due to a post-electional
- 45:16violence to kind of trying to understand
- 45:18okay there are these relationship we
- 45:20appear to be very valuable their value
- 45:23increases over time what could be the
- 45:25underlying mechanism that generates
- 45:27these forces
- 45:28and in principle there are many uh
- 45:32models of a relationship uh so many
- 45:35models of relationship between predict
- 45:36that the relationship value is
- 45:38stationary okay so the simplest model
- 45:40like the repeated prisoner dilemma that
- 45:42I mentioned before or models of
- 45:44relational Contracting which set an
- 45:46assumption essentially transference
- 45:47neutrality
- 45:49actually would predict that the
- 45:50relationship values should kind of be
- 45:52stationary over time
- 45:53we consider different models that could
- 45:55potentially imply an increasing value of
- 45:58relationship over time and one such
- 45:59model is a model in which parties learn
- 46:03about each other over time maybe the
- 46:05buyer is learning about the seller's
- 46:07reliability so think of reliability as a
- 46:10time over time
- 46:12so the seller keeps sending flowers
- 46:13there's never been a problem so over
- 46:15time I become more optimistic about the
- 46:17seller reliabilities over time I'm
- 46:19willing to place larger and larger order
- 46:21or to rely more and more on these
- 46:23suppliers at a Valentine Day
- 46:26one way to test whether that's the case
- 46:29is that one implication of of uh of
- 46:32reputational incentive of course is that
- 46:34reputational incentives are very strong
- 46:37when parties know each other a little
- 46:40bit but not too much yeah because if uh
- 46:44if you have already traded for a very
- 46:47long time with the seller at that point
- 46:49you're presumably quite confident about
- 46:51their type okay
- 46:52so at that point is a is uncertainty
- 46:55over the seller type in this theory
- 46:57model that kind of create reputational
- 47:00incentives and so a prediction of a
- 47:03model there is no reputation is that
- 47:04when there's a shortages of flowers and
- 47:07you need to prioritize among your
- 47:09different buyers
- 47:11you need to choose which buyers to
- 47:13prioritize
- 47:16very young buyers or buyers that you
- 47:18haven't traded a lot with
- 47:21International not very valuable yet
- 47:24because they don't trust you that much
- 47:25and right we are at the early stages of
- 47:27the relationship and the relationship is
- 47:29not very valid so maybe there's no lives
- 47:31incentive to try to protect those given
- 47:33that you have to give up on something
- 47:35buyers conversely that uh have traded
- 47:38with you for many years uh in fact
- 47:41they've had maybe 1 000 transaction
- 47:42because every year they have like 200
- 47:44transactions of flour they've all
- 47:46received already flowers from you one
- 47:48thousand times
- 47:49they're not going to Fair much about
- 47:51your reliability during the time in
- 47:53which you really struggle to to produce
- 47:55and so it is really both buyers with
- 47:58whom you already have a somewhat
- 48:00valuable relationship
- 48:02but not you haven't yet established your
- 48:04own reputation that you'll try to
- 48:05prioritize during the time of Crisis
- 48:08okay now of course so it turns out that
- 48:10this is what we find in the data so
- 48:12namely that there is embedded u-shaped
- 48:14relationship between the experience in
- 48:16the relationship how much we have traded
- 48:18in the past and whether the buyer gets
- 48:20prioritized at the time in which the
- 48:22sellers need to make these choices
- 48:24because of an exogenous supply shop
- 48:25there's other evidence that sort of
- 48:27corroborates this idea that in this
- 48:29market it seems that one reason why
- 48:31relationships are important is because
- 48:33probably trading directly over you know
- 48:36remove transaction costs you don't have
- 48:38to send the flowers to the Netherlands
- 48:39but when once that happened it exposes
- 48:42party to lack of contract enforcement
- 48:43and two opportunities and one model that
- 48:47is consistent with the value of
- 48:48relationship with the idea that we kind
- 48:49of grow over time uh confidence in our
- 48:52party's uh partner reliability okay
- 48:58now in this uh yes could I just um ask a
- 49:01couple of Q A's yes thanks for there's a
- 49:05couple of people who've been asking
- 49:06about uh the role of intermediaries we
- 49:09see them as being very common in
- 49:10developing countries do they play a role
- 49:13in long-term relationships and a second
- 49:15question more directly on the flowers
- 49:17paper is you know what are the sellers
- 49:19getting out of their long-term
- 49:20relationships is it a promise to buy at
- 49:23low season or when margins are bad
- 49:26yes banks these are uh these are both uh
- 49:28great uh great question okay on the
- 49:31first one
- 49:32yes intermediaries are indeed uh very
- 49:34important uh anecdotally in many
- 49:38industry sector in the industry that
- 49:39I've looked at I think one one
- 49:42possibility is that uh another
- 49:44implication of uh of these models of uh
- 49:47reputation is that there are economies
- 49:49of scales in reputation in many contexts
- 49:52um and uh so it could be that uh given
- 49:55that many firms in developing countries
- 49:57are small
- 49:58the more firms or left SQL are at the
- 50:01disadvantage in trying to uh create a
- 50:03reputation is that something that I may
- 50:04be mentioned again in the last slides as
- 50:06an open area for for future work
- 50:08but if you grant me that this
- 50:10speculation is correct uh this kind of
- 50:12fear informed speculation is correct
- 50:15then there is a natural role for
- 50:16intermediaries because to the extent
- 50:18that intermediate is aggregate business
- 50:21uh they might sort of have a slightly
- 50:23larger scale and they might have an
- 50:25advantage in uh sort of a sustaining
- 50:29relationship and sustaining reputations
- 50:30in relationship and in fact there's some
- 50:32really work for instance soprana Bardon
- 50:34and dilip Mukherjee and the third
- 50:36quarter but unfortunately I don't
- 50:38remember the model of this uh in the um
- 50:41AJ
- 50:43um a few years back
- 50:45um so yes intermediaries are very very
- 50:47important and uh you know one
- 50:49possibility there might be many other
- 50:51reasons of course right so repetition is
- 50:53not the you know Contracting problems
- 50:55that make reputation valuable I'm not
- 50:56the only thing that is going on
- 50:58um but that could be a reason and then
- 50:59there was the second question instead
- 51:01which was about yes what do these uh
- 51:03exporters get from relationships
- 51:06yeah so um
- 51:09the pair kind of benefits by Saving on
- 51:12one way to think about the the Kenya
- 51:14context that the pair uh benefits by uh
- 51:18saving on transaction costs
- 51:19that is what generates the events in the
- 51:22relationship then how the rents kind of
- 51:24materialize for the business right how
- 51:26we split both those those gains that
- 51:29will vary across relationships uh one
- 51:31way would be to Simply share some of the
- 51:33gains in the forms of higher prices I
- 51:36believe my court or I mean as a more
- 51:38recent paper looking at the Ethiopian
- 51:40data in the flower industry and it does
- 51:41find that prices inside relationship are
- 51:45slightly higher than the average spot
- 51:46market price that wasn't the case During
- 51:49the period That We examined with the
- 51:51Kenya data if I remember correctly so it
- 51:54could be that the value comes in the
- 51:55form of an assured Demand right or a
- 51:57very stable prices for instance so it
- 52:00might come in the form of some kind of
- 52:01insurance either demand insurance or
- 52:04more stability in cash flows for the
- 52:06seller
- 52:07yeah
- 52:08any other
- 52:10and actually this is an important
- 52:12question because in in different context
- 52:15of course the value of The Sword and the
- 52:18lying source of the value of the
- 52:19relationship will be different but for
- 52:21instance in the flower paper right it's
- 52:23insurance
- 52:25against shock was the main source of
- 52:27value to be in a relationship for the
- 52:29seller we shouldn't see these
- 52:31relationship we should see probably a
- 52:33downward sloping relationship between
- 52:34reliability and experience because an
- 52:36insurance model will say well you know
- 52:38when the relationship is more valuable
- 52:39that's where you're gonna get more
- 52:40Insurance yeah so in a way the value of
- 52:43the test here is to distinguish the
- 52:44reputation the acquisition of a
- 52:46reputation for reliability
- 52:48now you have people that trust you and
- 52:49then that wouldn't otherwise unless they
- 52:51were built from instead another possible
- 52:54source of uh of volume is relationship
- 52:56which could be insurance which doesn't
- 52:57seem to be the the primary force
- 53:00in this context
- 53:04I need to depend on what am I doing on
- 53:06time
- 53:07um
- 53:08so
- 53:09um
- 53:10with the without improving we have
- 53:12another paper that uh um it's brought a
- 53:15similar intuition so the idea of using
- 53:17shock to reference prices to uh ask a
- 53:20couple of different questions relative
- 53:22to the flower paper
- 53:25um in most theoretical models cheating
- 53:27actually does not happen along the
- 53:28equilibrium path there is no cheating in
- 53:30the flower bed maybe there's a lot of
- 53:31cheating in the industry but we were not
- 53:33equipped to study whether cheating
- 53:34happens however it's important to uh to
- 53:38know whether cheating happens in
- 53:39practice first of all it's important to
- 53:41know whether our models are accurate
- 53:43given that the majority of models
- 53:45implies that cheating does not occur in
- 53:46equilibrium
- 53:48but second and more importantly
- 53:51if cheating is a problem really what
- 53:53theory tells you that you can't just
- 53:56detect cheating and unfair what's the
- 53:58cost of this Contracting problem from
- 54:00The observed amount of cheating because
- 54:01parties will presumably anticipate the
- 54:04possibility of cheating and they will
- 54:06take precautionary actions and so the
- 54:08big cost of cheating comes probably in
- 54:11the form of its precautionary actions
- 54:12that are taken to mitigate the exposure
- 54:15to cheating
- 54:16well of course it's difficult to study
- 54:18cheating empirically for a couple of
- 54:19reasons the first one is that typically
- 54:23data set records the trade that takes
- 54:25place not the trade that was supposed to
- 54:27take place so we don't really know
- 54:29whether uh there was if you like a
- 54:32contractual default okay and then second
- 54:34even if we don't observe contractual
- 54:36defaults we wouldn't know whether the
- 54:38default occurs for forced mature reasons
- 54:41as opposed to instead opportunistic
- 54:43Behavior by one of the two parties
- 54:46so with Arthur we study the coffee
- 54:48Market the international coffee markets
- 54:50we have access to nice data on uh um
- 54:53International uh forward contracts in
- 54:57the international coffee Market
- 54:59these are essentially the contracts for
- 55:01which very large firms I'll come back to
- 55:03to this point below so at least for
- 55:05developing countries we are talking
- 55:06about large firms
- 55:09um in our sample the average firms has a
- 55:12revenues of one million dollar per year
- 55:13okay so these are not the micro firms
- 55:16that uh that that we have been talking
- 55:18maybe about most of the time yesterday
- 55:19or or earlier
- 55:22um so these are large firms that sell
- 55:24coffee through forward counters the
- 55:26former country is essentially a promise
- 55:27that I'll deliver coffee to David I can
- 55:30say in six months okay
- 55:32and we're going to exploit this
- 55:33intuition that the default will happen
- 55:34when market conditions change
- 55:36sufficiently to place a relationship
- 55:38outside its self-enforcing trade so
- 55:42essentially we go back very much to the
- 55:44same type of incentive compatibility
- 55:46constraint that we had before this is
- 55:48the quantity that I've promised to David
- 55:50this is the price in the contract with
- 55:52David this is now the price the world
- 55:54market price for coffee okay and the
- 55:57nice feature of coffee of course is that
- 55:59uh these are forward contracts so uh
- 56:02with a certain delivery date so what
- 56:05matters is the spot market price and the
- 56:07delivery date relative of course to our
- 56:09expectation which are observable because
- 56:12at the time in which we wrote the
- 56:13contract we know what is the future
- 56:15market price quoted for the delivery day
- 56:17and so the seller roughly speaking will
- 56:20default on the contract okay if market
- 56:24prices vary in such a way that this
- 56:26incentive compatibility constraint can
- 56:27no longer be satisfied
- 56:29so you see that the prediction here uh
- 56:32well there are two different type of
- 56:34contracts in the market
- 56:35there are fixed right contracts in which
- 56:37the price in the contract is uh oops
- 56:40sorry I moved
- 56:43all right
- 56:47uh there are fixed price contracts in
- 56:49which the price in the contract is fixed
- 56:52at the time of Contracting
- 56:55and then there are so-called price index
- 56:57store contracts on differentials in
- 56:59which David and I agree that at the time
- 57:01of delivery he will pay me a price that
- 57:04is equal to the word Price Plus a fixed
- 57:06differential
- 57:07immediately clear trade-off right the
- 57:10fixed price contract is good because it
- 57:12gives a lot of stability I know how much
- 57:14I'm gonna get paid I'm not exposed to uh
- 57:16to the this world market price
- 57:18fluctuation which is something that uh
- 57:20firms in developing countries can't
- 57:22really ensure against
- 57:24at the same time the problem is that uh
- 57:27the fixed price contracts potentially
- 57:30creates this problem that if market
- 57:32prices changes a lot then the seller
- 57:36might want to default on the forward
- 57:37contract
- 57:41so we have this prediction and if you
- 57:43just look at the data that's exactly
- 57:44what we find in the data again this is
- 57:46raw data
- 57:47so what we plot is the percentage of
- 57:49default the likelihood of a contractual
- 57:52default
- 57:53okay
- 57:54against these price surprises which is
- 57:57the ratio between the spot market price
- 57:59of delivery divided by the future
- 58:02markets for the delivery date quoted at
- 58:05the Contracting date
- 58:07so a ratio of well above one means that
- 58:09relative to what we were expecting the
- 58:11spot market price will be at the time in
- 58:13which uh I'm supposed to deliver the
- 58:15copy the spot market price is increased
- 58:17a lot and as you can see
- 58:19there are it's few contracts that have
- 58:21this very large uh increase in uh in
- 58:24Market uh in market prices of these were
- 58:26contracts that were assigned at the
- 58:27times in which there was a coffee Market
- 58:30World prices kind of increased a lot
- 58:32bones are the contracts in which
- 58:34defaults are concentrated and this by
- 58:38the way only happens as the theory
- 58:40predicts if the contract is a fixed rise
- 58:42contract as opposed to a differential
- 58:44price contract of course this is the raw
- 58:46data we need to put this into
- 58:47regressions and so forth
- 58:50it looks like uh we have a couple of
- 58:52different exercises that our estimate
- 58:54suggested probably about 50 of the
- 58:57observed defaults in this market are
- 58:59strategic in nature okay so cheating is
- 59:02a real possibility it looks like sellers
- 59:04can't really be fully trusted
- 59:06and so one prediction of of
- 59:10implication of this is that if you think
- 59:12about which kind of contracts will form
- 59:15end up receiving very much like in the
- 59:18spirit of water of energy and do flooded
- 59:20in the software industry
- 59:22if you have a lot of relationship value
- 59:24with their with your buyer right your
- 59:27buyer trust a lot that even if there's a
- 59:30big change in the price you're not gonna
- 59:32default then you're gonna be given a
- 59:35fixed price contract
- 59:37If instead the relationship value is
- 59:40more the buyers say look I can't trust
- 59:43you Rocco so I better give you a
- 59:45differential price contract
- 59:47okay
- 59:48so that's an implication of the theory
- 59:50we can test this implication uh uh in
- 59:53the data and we find support for this
- 59:55but notice that this has a couple of uh
- 59:57interesting uh implications the first
- 1:00:01one of course is that uh the uh it's the
- 1:00:04better relationship that sign fixed
- 1:00:06price contracts right so
- 1:00:09they test so we detect strategic default
- 1:00:12in a way on those relationships that are
- 1:00:13very strong and that because they are
- 1:00:15very strong they trust each other and
- 1:00:17they border already they're there to
- 1:00:19sign fixed price contracts but
- 1:00:22contractual default of course the big
- 1:00:23cost of contractual default is not the
- 1:00:26few contracts that gets defaulted is the
- 1:00:28fact that many forms potentially remain
- 1:00:31exposed to price risk because they don't
- 1:00:33even get a fixed price contract to begin
- 1:00:34with so here are the possibility of
- 1:00:36contractual default for exposes these
- 1:00:39very large firms to an insurance a
- 1:00:41missing Insurance Mark okay
- 1:00:47so I now want to spend uh maybe uh five
- 1:00:51minutes to relate a little bit what we
- 1:00:54have learned from these uh two studies
- 1:00:57um to what we discussed in uh what was
- 1:01:00discussed by Dave and David and and Pete
- 1:01:02particularly and and we'll set an extent
- 1:01:04to Chris
- 1:01:06so in both models Super Paper kind of
- 1:01:09really brings out the importance of
- 1:01:11thinking about this relationship value
- 1:01:13yeah
- 1:01:16and it seems that in both in contact
- 1:01:19this wheel matters we can quantify it is
- 1:01:22large and uh it drives both the
- 1:01:24contracts that people sign the firm sign
- 1:01:27and the way they responds to shock
- 1:01:31if you think about the flower paper one
- 1:01:33implication of the flower paper is that
- 1:01:35the amount of flowers that the firm sell
- 1:01:37is constrained by this bill by the Viva
- 1:01:40the fair Mass with the buyer
- 1:01:43survivability relay exactly two wedges
- 1:01:45that they've talked about and that I
- 1:01:47think are very implicit uh were not so
- 1:01:50implicitous they were quite explicit in
- 1:01:52Pete's discussion as well
- 1:01:53so in other words Contracting problems
- 1:01:55give us a lens or give us if you like a
- 1:01:58micro Foundation or a way to think about
- 1:02:00wedges and in particular to think about
- 1:02:03heterogeneous wedges across sperms
- 1:02:06in the context of flowers what do I mean
- 1:02:09by what of course is the fact that you
- 1:02:11know when I'm solving the the the the
- 1:02:12the the the the the the problem of the
- 1:02:15firm right the firm faces a constraint
- 1:02:17they are not able to sell as much as
- 1:02:19they would like so they can't really
- 1:02:20equate marginal revenues to Maxine of
- 1:02:22course that's the sense and the gap
- 1:02:25between marginal revenue and marginal
- 1:02:27cost will depend on this bill which is
- 1:02:29presumably heterogeneous across firms
- 1:02:31and so the weight will also be
- 1:02:32heterogeneous acrosphere
- 1:02:34now of course in the context of the
- 1:02:36flower paper you might say but Rocco you
- 1:02:38told us that these firms also sell on
- 1:02:39the spot market so it could be that the
- 1:02:42marginal flower is always sold to the
- 1:02:44spot Market in which case everybody face
- 1:02:46the same price there's no web
- 1:02:48well if that was the case that would be
- 1:02:50true however notice that the average
- 1:02:53revenue right still will depend on the
- 1:02:55mix of views that you have in your
- 1:02:57client portfolio and so at the very
- 1:02:59minimum it would be the case that the
- 1:03:01connection between the average uh
- 1:03:04product revenue and the marginal product
- 1:03:06Revenue will be different that
- 1:03:08connection essentially will be different
- 1:03:10across firms okay the two will no longer
- 1:03:13be the same differentially so across
- 1:03:15firms
- 1:03:17as I mentioned uh so this just to
- 1:03:20emphasize the idea that this type of
- 1:03:22Contracting problem or starting this
- 1:03:24type of Contracting problem and kind of
- 1:03:25trying to understand what is v and what
- 1:03:27it comes from give us a handle to think
- 1:03:28about wedges potentially
- 1:03:31second we mentioned that relationship
- 1:03:33appear to be very valuable so that that
- 1:03:35implies that the many valuable trading
- 1:03:37opportunities do not take place uh and
- 1:03:40that there are these very large distort
- 1:03:42potentially large distortion on the
- 1:03:43demand side even for these very large
- 1:03:45firms
- 1:03:46both the flower exporters and the coffee
- 1:03:49exporters are very large firms for
- 1:03:51developing country standards
- 1:03:54and then finally if you think about the
- 1:03:55flower paper
- 1:03:57we identified this idea about reputation
- 1:03:59intended as beliefs about the seller
- 1:04:01reliability matter is one of the sources
- 1:04:03of volume is relationship if these
- 1:04:06beliefs matter then try your beliefs
- 1:04:08matter
- 1:04:09but then prior beliefs by necessity do
- 1:04:12not come from uh interactions that we
- 1:04:13have had with that particular partner
- 1:04:15right that must come from perception
- 1:04:17that you have about the Kenyan exporters
- 1:04:20more General and so that also suggests
- 1:04:22that uh Eve reputation is important The
- 1:04:25Logical implication of that is that
- 1:04:27there should be informational
- 1:04:28externalities in the form of potentially
- 1:04:30Collective reputation that also matter
- 1:04:32and here there is a GMI with a couple of
- 1:04:35other quotas have a really really nice
- 1:04:37paper on restart on uh on a collective
- 1:04:40reputation in the uh China final Dairy
- 1:04:43sector but I believe that a lot more
- 1:04:45work should be done to think a little
- 1:04:47bit about the policy implication
- 1:04:48particularly in export markets of uh of
- 1:04:51uh of this type of reputational models
- 1:04:54the the paper with our tour the one that
- 1:04:56detects cheating kind of goes a little
- 1:04:58bit further in uh in in these in
- 1:05:00establishing connection with some of the
- 1:05:02lectures that we talked about before and
- 1:05:03it also because there is a model that is
- 1:05:06kind of calibrated okay and so it's a
- 1:05:08model that reveals that for these very
- 1:05:10large exporters the possibility of
- 1:05:12defaulting on these contracts reduces we
- 1:05:16estimate their output by 10 to 15
- 1:05:18percent on average okay but what is
- 1:05:21interesting is that uh what the what the
- 1:05:25uh what what the what the paper
- 1:05:27highlights is that within the same
- 1:05:29industry
- 1:05:30the type of Market imperfection that the
- 1:05:34firm face
- 1:05:35is very heterogeneous yeah so yesterday
- 1:05:38Chris gave you a framework uh thinking
- 1:05:41about credit constraint and thinking
- 1:05:43about it sooner costing both being
- 1:05:45reason why marginal product of capital
- 1:05:47remains above the interest rate
- 1:05:49in this context we have determined that
- 1:05:51for these very large firms some firms
- 1:05:54have a lot of relational Capital with
- 1:05:56their buyers they are trusted a lot
- 1:05:57there's essentially no problem there
- 1:05:59they are unconstrained they achieve
- 1:06:00first best
- 1:06:01problems that have medium relational
- 1:06:03Capital being a credit component they'll
- 1:06:06get price Insurance yeah but they might
- 1:06:09not be able to get all the funds
- 1:06:11necessary to to to to to to to exhaust
- 1:06:14essentially the trade with the buyer
- 1:06:15because the amount of trade is
- 1:06:16constrained by this relational value
- 1:06:19and it will firms are kind of new or
- 1:06:22they don't have a lot of relational
- 1:06:23value with their customers then in that
- 1:06:26case they face an insurance constraint
- 1:06:28yeah so even if you give them money they
- 1:06:31would not want to get more of his money
- 1:06:32because they are remain exposed to to
- 1:06:35price risk so we have kind of a context
- 1:06:37in which if we really go deep and try to
- 1:06:39understand the underlying Contracting
- 1:06:41problem we see that actually the market
- 1:06:44that is missing can be heterogeneous
- 1:06:46across firms and it's kind of endogenous
- 1:06:48okay so we shouldn't maybe think about
- 1:06:51uh Missing markets in an exogenous sense
- 1:06:54or you know the credit Market doesn't
- 1:06:55work well because within firms within
- 1:06:58industry firms will face very different
- 1:07:00constraints
- 1:07:01I also think that these uh a couple of
- 1:07:03things I I think it's remarkable that we
- 1:07:05find this evidence on firms that are so
- 1:07:07large because most of the evidence for
- 1:07:09this type of distortion I think comes
- 1:07:11from from smaller firms uh at least a
- 1:07:14capital Distortion that Chris talked
- 1:07:16about even if you think about the banner
- 1:07:17you do flow
- 1:07:18uh paper in restart which is a fantastic
- 1:07:21paper testing for credit constraint
- 1:07:24um the firmware the typical loan size is
- 1:07:26about ten thousand dollars the typical
- 1:07:27loan size of the scope export is like
- 1:07:29four hundred thousand dollars so these
- 1:07:31are very large firms
- 1:07:32the second thing is that again thinking
- 1:07:34carefully about what's the source of the
- 1:07:36market failure is bonds implication for
- 1:07:39example it is policy implication if
- 1:07:40you're trying to develop uh tools that
- 1:07:43help these large firms to add risk
- 1:07:46the firm is borrowing money actually The
- 1:07:49Firm doesn't have a very large demand
- 1:07:51for adding this price risk uh because
- 1:07:53essentially gambling with the with
- 1:07:55borrowed money okay
- 1:07:56and in the paper we also I don't have
- 1:07:59time to cover it in detail here but we
- 1:08:01also kind of try to do a little bit of
- 1:08:03reduced form exercise to test for a
- 1:08:05credit constraint using a regression
- 1:08:07discontinuity design because we know how
- 1:08:09much working Capital Loans these firms
- 1:08:11are given and we do find evidence that
- 1:08:13some of these firms are credit
- 1:08:14constrained and when that happens the
- 1:08:17fact that the firm is credit constraints
- 1:08:19because of this Contracting problem
- 1:08:20comes stream actually tends to lower the
- 1:08:22price that the firm can pay to its
- 1:08:24suppliers and the suppliers are farmers
- 1:08:26so what that's suggestive I mean this is
- 1:08:28very prediminary evidence it's all
- 1:08:30independent is that Contracting problem
- 1:08:32up the export gate actually kind of
- 1:08:35reduce welfare weighing up further up
- 1:08:38the chain in this context and impose
- 1:08:40externality on the small older farmers
- 1:08:43yeah
- 1:08:45okay so so far we have uh I've tried to
- 1:08:49argue that relationship in many
- 1:08:51widespread in many contexts
- 1:08:54we can learn a lot if we think about
- 1:08:56relationship there's a lot of work on
- 1:08:58this we can learn quite a bit I think
- 1:09:00specifically if we think hard about
- 1:09:01taking Dynamic incentive compatibility
- 1:09:03constraint to the data
- 1:09:05we have discovered at least when we were
- 1:09:07able to do that that relationships are
- 1:09:09very vulnerable
- 1:09:11we are then maybe trying to make this
- 1:09:13connection that is the relationship
- 1:09:15values are heterogeneous across firms
- 1:09:17even across relationship and they might
- 1:09:20give us a land
- 1:09:21to microphone and even endogenize wedges
- 1:09:24uh and and marketing Perfections that
- 1:09:27have been discussed in in the previous
- 1:09:29lectures and then I gave you a couple of
- 1:09:31examples uh for lack of time I don't
- 1:09:33give you more that kind of really
- 1:09:34understanding the source of the market
- 1:09:36imperfection might also heal their
- 1:09:38specific policy uh implementation I
- 1:09:41think this is again a good time to take
- 1:09:43a little bit of a pause uh before I move
- 1:09:45on to to the next session and and to
- 1:09:48concluding remarks
- 1:09:51so let me take a look at the Q a and if
- 1:09:54you have questions I've got a fantastic
- 1:09:56day yeah
- 1:09:58thanks yeah um yeah I'll read out um
- 1:10:02one question from the Q a ah okay yeah
- 1:10:06so it comes from Luis
- 1:10:07um is asking um a common complaint by
- 1:10:11small producers in developing countries
- 1:10:13is about intermediaries keeping most of
- 1:10:15the value generated at their expense
- 1:10:18usually I would think of this as a
- 1:10:20consequence of
- 1:10:22intermediaries Market power
- 1:10:24can one make a theoretical case for
- 1:10:26their High share being based on the fact
- 1:10:29that it is
- 1:10:31they who invested in a long-term
- 1:10:33relationship with the final buyers
- 1:10:36I I so I don't know if Dave I speak this
- 1:10:39question because he knows I love this
- 1:10:40question please this is a great question
- 1:10:43not only a theoretical case can be made
- 1:10:46I think that we need to try to make
- 1:10:47empirical kind of tests for whether
- 1:10:49that's correct or not there's recent
- 1:10:52work I'll mention it later on in the
- 1:10:54slide so this is actually exactly what's
- 1:10:55coming up not with intermediarism
- 1:10:57foreign
- 1:11:02of course interested in uh kind of
- 1:11:05understanding how Market powers of these
- 1:11:07intermediaries the process price is paid
- 1:11:09to Farmers okay this is work that
- 1:11:11deploys IO tools uh Michael Rubens has a
- 1:11:14wonderful paper in the Chinese Top
- 1:11:15Tobacco industry uh also has a paper
- 1:11:20um well Lauren Falcao I think Lauren
- 1:11:22will talk a lot about those issues
- 1:11:24um a lot of these papers which are
- 1:11:27absolutely fantastic
- 1:11:29um circles if you like on a specific
- 1:11:31Market Market affection which is Market
- 1:11:33power yeah concentrated wire Downstream
- 1:11:36they have Market Powers markdown farmers
- 1:11:38get lower price
- 1:11:41one could make the argument however that
- 1:11:43is uh in a lot of these agricultural
- 1:11:45chains uh price is not the only thing
- 1:11:48that matters right Farmers might receive
- 1:11:50loans from their buyers uh Farmers might
- 1:11:53receive insurance they might receive
- 1:11:55inputs and so forth and it could be that
- 1:11:57a certain degree of Market power is
- 1:12:00needed in order for these buyers to
- 1:12:02provide these services to the to the to
- 1:12:04the farmers and if that's the case
- 1:12:06indeed there's going to be a trade-off
- 1:12:08and that's exactly what we're going to
- 1:12:09look at now in the next slide okay
- 1:12:12uh
- 1:12:14I had a couple of other questions so
- 1:12:15since Louise already allowed me to talk
- 1:12:17about the next slide let's see so
- 1:12:18Michelle can we think about the
- 1:12:20relationship between firms in developing
- 1:12:21countries and their suppliers in the
- 1:12:22same way
- 1:12:25what is the V2 suppliers in this case uh
- 1:12:29I think so the the example I I I if it's
- 1:12:33true that in terms of methodology none
- 1:12:36of what I've said in the flower for the
- 1:12:39flower paper or the coffee example kind
- 1:12:41of specific to developing countries but
- 1:12:43in both cases the context our developing
- 1:12:45countries exporters towards richer
- 1:12:47countries uh so I think conceptually yes
- 1:12:49we can definitely apply uh I think very
- 1:12:52similar conceptual framework uh to
- 1:12:54develop to develop in countries uh I
- 1:12:56think that if that was the question now
- 1:12:59of course uh if one was able to do the
- 1:13:02same study in the same industry rich and
- 1:13:04poorer country would be very will be
- 1:13:05fascinating right to compare whether
- 1:13:07relationships are more prevalent in
- 1:13:09poorer countries and in richer countries
- 1:13:10whether
- 1:13:12um the relationship value is larger in
- 1:13:14developing countries and in richer
- 1:13:16countries and so forth but unfortunately
- 1:13:17I'm not aware of people yet that have
- 1:13:19attempted that that exercise
- 1:13:22in the in the coffee paper we had some
- 1:13:25cross-country variation because the
- 1:13:26exporters come from different countries
- 1:13:28but coffee is only produced by
- 1:13:30developing companies and to be fair
- 1:13:31although we were pushed to look for
- 1:13:33correlation between institutional
- 1:13:35quality of the exporting countries and
- 1:13:37relationship value
- 1:13:38I I'm not comfortable kind of
- 1:13:40extrapolating any of the patterns that
- 1:13:42maybe appear in figure 15 of the paper
- 1:13:44yeah but it's a great question
- 1:13:47um Rocco maybe I can just summarize the
- 1:13:49other two um yes uh very I mean this
- 1:13:53maybe will come later but both uh John
- 1:13:55and guruk are um interested in asking
- 1:13:59you to explore say a bit more about
- 1:14:00policy implications John is talking
- 1:14:02about sort of a
- 1:14:04efforts to improve courts and Industrial
- 1:14:06Court systems Google Rook is um
- 1:14:09wondering what policies would increase
- 1:14:11incentives for firms to write better
- 1:14:13contracts
- 1:14:15okay these are if I can let me go and
- 1:14:19then there are the next break I'll
- 1:14:21answer it not the answer the answer is
- 1:14:23that I don't know but I think those are
- 1:14:25both great questions I have some
- 1:14:26thoughts about it and I think that they
- 1:14:28are kind of priority areas for for for
- 1:14:30work really and I can think also I mean
- 1:14:33one could imagine some experiments and I
- 1:14:35know that some experiments are ongoing
- 1:14:37um some experiments with the conferences
- 1:14:40Chris is doing I think work in Mexico
- 1:14:41that is fascinating with courts a labor
- 1:14:43contract uh there's also work other type
- 1:14:46of experimental work with courts not
- 1:14:48necessarily focusing on relationship uh
- 1:14:50we could imagine digital platforms
- 1:14:52sometimes helping with contract
- 1:14:53enforcement at least kind of with the
- 1:14:55spread of information and reputational
- 1:14:56incentives and I think that there is
- 1:14:58ongoing work also on on that
- 1:15:01um
- 1:15:01there are also it would be fascinating
- 1:15:03to put together the data to exploit
- 1:15:05either cross-sectional variation in
- 1:15:07chords performance like in India in
- 1:15:09Brazil there are nice papers that use
- 1:15:10that variation with kind of firm to form
- 1:15:12data to kind of try to understand how
- 1:15:15the effectiveness of chords impact the
- 1:15:17relationship I know China has enacted
- 1:15:19reforms in that sense but I don't have
- 1:15:21the Chinese debt but if anyone uh has
- 1:15:24good Chinese data if that might be that
- 1:15:26the right place kind of to to try to
- 1:15:28tackle uh tackle this question have
- 1:15:30inside that as we'll see in a moment I
- 1:15:33think the implication of the world in
- 1:15:36which relationship are important
- 1:15:38the theoretical implication is not that
- 1:15:40perfect or improving contact enforcement
- 1:15:42will necessarily improve Market function
- 1:15:45okay and we'll get back to this in a in
- 1:15:48a sec
- 1:15:50Okay so
- 1:15:52so we have talked about these bees right
- 1:15:54and so far I've simply said well you
- 1:15:56know Veronica is this relationship value
- 1:15:58they take them as given we have tried to
- 1:16:00learn about them how large they are uh
- 1:16:03whether they correlate with contract
- 1:16:04choice or nothing but so far I've kind
- 1:16:06of taken them as exogenous okay but a
- 1:16:09nice feature now Reviving in the v is
- 1:16:12that we can start to think about whether
- 1:16:13to what extent they are endogenous okay
- 1:16:15now even when if they weren't exogenous
- 1:16:18we can write down models stick them in
- 1:16:21our modern as wedges right that's
- 1:16:22probably like almost as Iceberg cost or
- 1:16:24like similar and then you know we can
- 1:16:27quantify our model taking into account
- 1:16:28uh these uh this watches and you know it
- 1:16:31would be useful to know how large and
- 1:16:33support but we can take treat them as
- 1:16:34parameters but of course they are not
- 1:16:36parameters right because they are is the
- 1:16:39net present value of the relationship so
- 1:16:40they really depend on many things and
- 1:16:43among the many things they depend on
- 1:16:45Market structure okay so that's why now
- 1:16:47I want to think a little bit about
- 1:16:48Market structure and relationships
- 1:16:51for marketing developing countries are
- 1:16:53often portrayed as this functional okay
- 1:16:55and so there is this perception that
- 1:16:57increase competition will be able to
- 1:17:00improve firm performance and management
- 1:17:02and there is abundant evidence that's
- 1:17:04actually the case so I believe
- 1:17:06please don't go out and say oh I was
- 1:17:09following these scores uh you see a
- 1:17:11bread and there was this crazy economies
- 1:17:13that say that competition is bad I
- 1:17:14believe competition is good okay
- 1:17:17and he said that if relationships are
- 1:17:20important and relationship relies on
- 1:17:22future rents
- 1:17:24if competition reduces ranks
- 1:17:28or increases temptation to deviate in
- 1:17:31certain contexts competition could be
- 1:17:33harmful right that's obviously this is a
- 1:17:35theoretical argument that has been made
- 1:17:37the theoretical argument that equals a
- 1:17:39little bit the argument that Lewis was
- 1:17:41asking in his questions about
- 1:17:42intermediaries yeah
- 1:17:45so with the meter we have done a paper
- 1:17:47where we have kind of tried to test
- 1:17:49these uh this hypothesis
- 1:17:51specifically in the context in a context
- 1:17:54in which relational contracts are
- 1:17:56important okay so maybe if you are in a
- 1:17:58market in which the restaurant contracts
- 1:18:00are not so important uh you know we will
- 1:18:03expect the usual uh effects of
- 1:18:05competition to play out
- 1:18:07so to do that we needed to
- 1:18:11uh we need to so we basically asked in
- 1:18:14this paper uh um the following question
- 1:18:17we asked those competition causes
- 1:18:18relationships to break down
- 1:18:21and if so what are the consequences of
- 1:18:24relationship breakdown for Market
- 1:18:25functions and for participants yeah and
- 1:18:28then ideally also what are the
- 1:18:29mechanisms through which relationship
- 1:18:30competition causes relationship to break
- 1:18:33down well
- 1:18:34um this is a tricky uh this is a very
- 1:18:37tricky set of questions to go after
- 1:18:38because well first of all you have
- 1:18:40measurement problem you need to go out
- 1:18:41there and measure this relationship that
- 1:18:43we do a survey fine
- 1:18:45Beyond of course is that uh competition
- 1:18:47is an indulging of alcohol right is a is
- 1:18:51um well his Market structure which is
- 1:18:52endogenous so
- 1:18:54so what we tried to do we tried to look
- 1:18:58for a context which perhaps will happen
- 1:19:00to be the Rwanda coffee sector in which
- 1:19:03relational contracts are important and
- 1:19:05in which we might be able to come up
- 1:19:07with a relatively good instrument for
- 1:19:11competition okay so we started the
- 1:19:13Rwanda coffee sector we're at about 400
- 1:19:15000 smaller than Farmers scattered
- 1:19:17around the country
- 1:19:18and then the government kind of um
- 1:19:21the secretary essentially is liberalizer
- 1:19:23one has been doing very well so there's
- 1:19:24been a lot of kind of coffee washing
- 1:19:26station or coffee meals this is the
- 1:19:28first stage processing of coffee that
- 1:19:30I've been entering the sector and that
- 1:19:33because coffee needs to be processed
- 1:19:35within hours of our best this meals are
- 1:19:39all scattered in the countryside yeah so
- 1:19:43uh well I'll show you a map uh maybe
- 1:19:45later on now here is a map of Rwanda I
- 1:19:47don't know if you can see the the yellow
- 1:19:49dots are where the meals are located
- 1:19:51yeah you see the meals need to go very
- 1:19:54close to where the cough is produced
- 1:19:55because the coffee needs to be
- 1:19:56transported to the meal within hours of
- 1:19:58being harvested so that gives us nice
- 1:20:00geographical variation there will be
- 1:20:03some means that face a lot of
- 1:20:04competition because they are in zone
- 1:20:06that are very densely populated by means
- 1:20:08relative to the amount of coffee that
- 1:20:10can be produced and means instead maybe
- 1:20:12that are a little bit more isolated and
- 1:20:14therefore face a little bit less
- 1:20:16competition
- 1:20:17so we do a serving of all the means in
- 1:20:19the sector and of random samples of
- 1:20:21farmers around these means and to kind
- 1:20:25of try to measure directly the extent to
- 1:20:27which we rely on relational contract
- 1:20:29okay so which relational contracts here
- 1:20:31means that before harvest the meal gives
- 1:20:34inputs to the farmers at harvest the
- 1:20:38farmer sells on credit to the meal which
- 1:20:40is very important because this meals a
- 1:20:42very large working capital requirements
- 1:20:44so they tend to be credit constrained so
- 1:20:46if the Farmers Supply on uh on credit
- 1:20:48that's relaxes declarative constraints
- 1:20:50for me and then finally uh whether after
- 1:20:53our best meal makes a second payment so
- 1:20:55we pay the Trade Credit and provide
- 1:20:57others and basically what you find is
- 1:21:00that first of all these measures of
- 1:21:02relational Contracting so the extent to
- 1:21:04which farmers and meals rely on these uh
- 1:21:07interlinked transactions that are
- 1:21:09clearly non-enforceable in this
- 1:21:10contracts
- 1:21:12um very strongly correlates with meals
- 1:21:13performance yeah unit cost capacity
- 1:21:15utilization
- 1:21:18and then we kind of try to construct
- 1:21:19this instrument for competition not
- 1:21:22lifting that formula
- 1:21:24conditional on the tweetability for
- 1:21:27coffee cultivation in Milan catchment
- 1:21:29area
- 1:21:31the suitability around the mill
- 1:21:33catchment area will drive placement of
- 1:21:36other competing meals but potentially
- 1:21:39not performance of the meal itself since
- 1:21:41the meal doesn't get coffee from the
- 1:21:42from the green area so if the meal only
- 1:21:45gets copied and therefore operates only
- 1:21:47based on the gray area the green Air the
- 1:21:50suitability for meal placement in the
- 1:21:52green area will give us potential an
- 1:21:54instrument for uh competition okay now
- 1:21:57there's a lot of
- 1:21:58things that go into this computation of
- 1:22:00the instrument but let's say that we
- 1:22:02kind of do come up with an instrument
- 1:22:04that very strongly correlates with
- 1:22:06competition
- 1:22:07and in a review form sense that strongly
- 1:22:10correlates with the uh with the use of
- 1:22:12relational Contracting so what we find
- 1:22:14is that conditional suitability for
- 1:22:16coffee and milk placement in their
- 1:22:18catchment areas means that are
- 1:22:20surrounded by more suitable places
- 1:22:22that's a that's kind of what help
- 1:22:24associate a bit with the argument so if
- 1:22:26you're on a meal that is surrounded by
- 1:22:27very good places
- 1:22:29it turns out that you have uh lower and
- 1:22:32more erratic capacity utilization and
- 1:22:34therefore higher processing costs so
- 1:22:36your performance is worse you also
- 1:22:38produce lower quality coffee we tested
- 1:22:40the quality in the lab a little bit like
- 1:22:41Eric was mentioning
- 1:22:43you you the meal doesn't pay higher
- 1:22:46prices to Farmers so it's not that
- 1:22:48competition here translating to Farmers
- 1:22:49receiving higher prices in fact we find
- 1:22:52that farmers sell less coffee to all
- 1:22:55means to one way they are access they
- 1:22:57process more coffee at home which is
- 1:23:00very inefficient and is associated with
- 1:23:01much lower prices yeah
- 1:23:04the reason why this is interesting is
- 1:23:06that it provides an example uh an
- 1:23:09empirical example uh of a situation in
- 1:23:12which because the two Market
- 1:23:14imperfections interact right there's a
- 1:23:18Monopoly power that comes from the fact
- 1:23:20that these means need to be uh located
- 1:23:21in the countryside so that's what Luis
- 1:23:23was saying but at the same time the fact
- 1:23:25that this Market power might be needed
- 1:23:28or a certain degree of Market power
- 1:23:29might be needed in order to sustain
- 1:23:31these relationships that are then
- 1:23:33valuable because of all the other
- 1:23:35services that they produce that they
- 1:23:37deliver to the farmer yeah
- 1:23:40this is already used for
- 1:23:43the paper that kind of tackles Louise
- 1:23:46question in this context kind of needs
- 1:23:48to be written so that would need to be a
- 1:23:50paper right that really takes seriously
- 1:23:52sort of Market power and Mark Brown as
- 1:23:54well as potentially the services at this
- 1:23:56relationship facility
- 1:24:00there are police implications from the
- 1:24:01Sun I unfortunately actually they we did
- 1:24:05this project in partnership with the
- 1:24:08coffee board in one that they they took
- 1:24:10the study and decided to try to
- 1:24:12implement apparently not very
- 1:24:14successfully zoning regulations yeah
- 1:24:16because they say oh you know if the
- 1:24:17problem is competition then it should
- 1:24:19prevent Farmers to switch across means
- 1:24:22that I don't think is the policy
- 1:24:23recommendation that comes out of the
- 1:24:25study because what the IV is picking up
- 1:24:27is the effect of an extra meal right is
- 1:24:29it is the late is the effect of an extra
- 1:24:31meal well on average means already phase
- 1:24:33four to five competitors
- 1:24:35the first best of course would be to
- 1:24:37have a contact enforcement which is a
- 1:24:39little bit what the Costa Rica
- 1:24:40regulation does okay it would be to
- 1:24:42facilitate farmers and means to rely on
- 1:24:45formal contract enforcement
- 1:24:47in sustaining this type of relational
- 1:24:49companies but the theory tell us that uh
- 1:24:53imperfect con so in improving contract
- 1:24:56enforcement will not necessarily improve
- 1:24:58Market functioning unless it completely
- 1:25:01eliminates the Contracting problem and
- 1:25:03the reason is that a formal contract is
- 1:25:06imperfect right formal contractor could
- 1:25:09use as the outside option through the
- 1:25:12relationship breakdown
- 1:25:13and so should you try to improve formal
- 1:25:16contract enforcement uh but only
- 1:25:19partially you might actually end up
- 1:25:21hurting relationship because what you
- 1:25:23are doing is that you are improving the
- 1:25:24outside option of the default option
- 1:25:26right and therefore preventing the
- 1:25:28relationship from achieving the service
- 1:25:30that they need to be uh achieved this is
- 1:25:33not a character with contract
- 1:25:35enforcement I don't know of any evidence
- 1:25:37that has this prediction okay
- 1:25:39but the logic is similar to the
- 1:25:42literature that argues that improving
- 1:25:45for instance information in the market
- 1:25:46can facilitate collusion and there is
- 1:25:49evidence for that okay so it's a very
- 1:25:51similar logic and it's a logic that work
- 1:25:54through the outside option
- 1:25:57uh that is used in the relationships
- 1:25:59okay so I think an implication is that
- 1:26:02yes we can think about policy policy
- 1:26:04implication of studies and I think
- 1:26:05trying to find cheap ways of improving
- 1:26:07contract enforcement should be a
- 1:26:09priority but we need to be mindful that
- 1:26:11fearing doesn't tell us that necessarily
- 1:26:13improving contract enforcement will
- 1:26:15improve our very much like improving
- 1:26:17competition might not improve outcomes
- 1:26:19or improving information might not
- 1:26:21improve outcomes yeah
- 1:26:22because this really comes from the
- 1:26:25structure of the incentive compatibility
- 1:26:26constraint and the fact that the outside
- 1:26:28option as a counter Wheeling Force
- 1:26:31improving things that improve the
- 1:26:32outside option reduce rent and makes it
- 1:26:36harder to sustain relationship okay so
- 1:26:37if relationships are still needed then
- 1:26:39you might actually the intervention my
- 1:26:41backfire
- 1:26:42Okay so
- 1:26:45I have to wrap up there's a uh I take
- 1:26:48two minutes to wrap up the first thing I
- 1:26:49wanted to say all these slides will be
- 1:26:51available and of course get in touch if
- 1:26:54you if you want to discuss any further
- 1:26:56points yeah first of all I wanted to
- 1:26:58talk about other works on Market
- 1:27:00structure and relationship which I think
- 1:27:03is important nicely Lauren will talk
- 1:27:06about competition I believe in the uh
- 1:27:09next week and I will imagine that we
- 1:27:11should definitely talk about the paper I
- 1:27:13hope and possibly also about
- 1:27:17okay so please stay tuned
- 1:27:22Contracting a free
- 1:27:27so shocks gets transmitted differently
- 1:27:29if there are these interlinkages for
- 1:27:31instance
- 1:27:32a fascinating paper where the Bangladesh
- 1:27:36government banned intermediaries in the
- 1:27:39soil lead chain thinking that these
- 1:27:41intermediaries at a lot of Market power
- 1:27:43and uh and we're capturing rents turns
- 1:27:46out that when you remove this
- 1:27:47intermediary from the market
- 1:27:49price transmission decreases
- 1:27:51and the market becomes less efficient
- 1:27:53and the reason is because with
- 1:27:54intermediaries yeah sure they have
- 1:27:56Market power but they are actually the
- 1:27:58one that provided Faith credit that is
- 1:28:00necessary for wholesalers and processor
- 1:28:03to import seeds so this is a wonderful
- 1:28:05example of how kind of taking into
- 1:28:08account Contracting problems really
- 1:28:10changes the way we think about standard
- 1:28:12question that uh that are very important
- 1:28:14in trade and that are you in trading
- 1:28:16development to to to to understand our
- 1:28:18Market function for instance possible
- 1:28:21I wanted to tell you more things but I
- 1:28:23I'll drop so I also promised that I
- 1:28:25would say something about open areas I
- 1:28:28have maybe four or five slides on
- 1:28:31operators
- 1:28:32first of all structural models I think
- 1:28:35that there is a lot of work to try to
- 1:28:37bring estimate structural model of
- 1:28:39Contracting problem and relationship
- 1:28:41there are wonderful examples in IO that
- 1:28:45are closely related and are mentioned
- 1:28:47zombie slides there are also some
- 1:28:49beautiful examples of recent paper
- 1:28:50mostly from Junior scholars in
- 1:28:53development that are really really very
- 1:28:54good and I think I have if I had to pick
- 1:28:57one it's not about relationship but I
- 1:28:59think this paper by Nick Ryan I put it
- 1:29:01as kind of even on the reading list
- 1:29:03because it's really a wonderful study
- 1:29:05about taking into account Contracting
- 1:29:08problem lead us to change our view on on
- 1:29:11on standard problems and and in this
- 1:29:14case in particular on efficiency of
- 1:29:15procrement auction
- 1:29:17other areas of uh that are open for work
- 1:29:21I think we need more systematic facts we
- 1:29:23need to integrate this agenda into macro
- 1:29:26and trade models uh to enrich them if
- 1:29:28you like to think a little bit more uh I
- 1:29:30mean in a more than one's way about
- 1:29:32wedges if we think that these bees are
- 1:29:34important
- 1:29:35I think that if these are important they
- 1:29:38give V creates a very natural
- 1:29:42stores of non-convexity we talked
- 1:29:44already about the fact that there are
- 1:29:46economies of scale in reputation there
- 1:29:48are economies of scales and credibility
- 1:29:50and so it could be that thinking about
- 1:29:53these give us a handle to understand why
- 1:29:55firms small firms don't grow why they
- 1:29:57cannot grow and why even if you boost a
- 1:30:00lot of intervention not much is going to
- 1:30:02happen potentially if the problem is
- 1:30:04essentially create this future rights or
- 1:30:07the lack of his future rents okay
- 1:30:09um I have some work that speaks to that
- 1:30:11but a lot more should be should be done
- 1:30:13and then this was like a two or three
- 1:30:17lectures I think we would touch some
- 1:30:18Advanced topics such as well what's the
- 1:30:21relationship between uh with the
- 1:30:23vertical integration and firm boundaries
- 1:30:25uh we'll talk about sourcing system
- 1:30:27where do relationships come from so far
- 1:30:30I've just talked as if we do firms end
- 1:30:33up having relationships but
- 1:30:34relationships are managed then they come
- 1:30:36from somewhere
- 1:30:37we should talk about relationships
- 1:30:39within firm because there's not on
- 1:30:42relationship between firms is the
- 1:30:43relationship between employers and their
- 1:30:45employees and those are also maybe very
- 1:30:48important and will give us a different
- 1:30:49handle in understanding uh variation in
- 1:30:52management practices and then of course
- 1:30:54the collusion so partner talked about
- 1:30:57relationship that happened to be
- 1:30:58beneficial for the parties involved in
- 1:31:00the relationship but there's no there's
- 1:31:02no reason why this relationship would be
- 1:31:03beneficial for the market as a whole and
- 1:31:06of course informal or implicit collusion
- 1:31:08is a case of colluding firms benefiting
- 1:31:11from their informal effective and
- 1:31:13illegal relationship but of course the
- 1:31:15market as a whole potentially suffering
- 1:31:17from it and then as I mentioned we need
- 1:31:19a lot more work kind of trying to
- 1:31:20evaluate policy concrete policies trying
- 1:31:24to ameliorate Contracting problems um I
- 1:31:27think I I'm gonna stop here I'm happy to
- 1:31:30stay a little bit longer if people have
- 1:31:31questions and otherwise please do shoot
- 1:31:34me an email uh if you want to chat more
- 1:31:40foreign
- 1:31:44I think uh given our um need for
- 1:31:48credibility here we will uh have to stop
- 1:31:50things we've already gone over by a
- 1:31:52minute despite Rocco's generous offer to
- 1:31:54uh
- 1:31:55to chat further but um those who have
- 1:31:58remaining questions uh you know I I I'm
- 1:32:01guessing Rocco wouldn't mind answering
- 1:32:03them on email he's even kind of
- 1:32:04explicitly offered to do that right here
- 1:32:06and uh Rocco we're grateful for that but
- 1:32:08and uh above all else we're grateful for
- 1:32:11you know everything you've done the last
- 1:32:1290 minutes this is a I know a huge
- 1:32:14amount of work for you and it's also a
- 1:32:16huge value for for us for for students
- 1:32:19interested in this topic for many years
- 1:32:20to come so thank you and again thanks
- 1:32:23everyone for joining us so we will meet
- 1:32:24again next week on Thursday and Friday
- 1:32:27at uh 10 a.m EST I hope to see you there
- 1:32:31and thanks for joining us today bye yeah
- 1:32:33thank you everybody shoot an email if
- 1:32:35you want thanks Dave and thanks David as
- 1:32:37well
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