Learn Italian with a Real-Life Conversation | A Morning of Italian Bureaucracy — Transcript

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1. 0:00Giovanni, it's a quarter to eight, and the office opens at eight-thirty.
2. 0:04Yet there are already nine people in front of the City Hall door.
3. 0:08Nine? We're lucky. I once counted thirty,
4. 0:13and one lady even brought a folding chair.
5. 0:16Come on, I don't believe it.
6. 0:18I swear. And that time, in the end, I had to go back four times for the same piece of paper.
7. 0:24But I'll tell you this story later, because it still makes me angry.
8. 0:28I'll count on it, I'll make a note of it. In the meantime, let's say hello to everyone. Hi everyone, I'm Alessia.
9. 0:34And I'm Giovanni. Today we're in a slightly different place than usual: no bar, no square,
10. 0:41no market. We're queuing in front of a public office, like so many Italians every morning.
11. 0:49Exactly. Today we're spending a whole morning of Italian bureaucracy together.
12. 0:55And by the end of the episode, you'll be able to take a number,
13. 0:58talk at the counter, and understand what "come back tomorrow" means. Without losing patience, or almost.
14. 1:06The program is simple: the number, the waiting room, the counter, the forms,
15. 1:12the tax code, and the new ID card. And halfway through the episode,
16. 1:17as always, our feature: What do you call it?
17. 1:21But first, let's explain why we're here at this hour. Last month, I
18. 1:28moved to another municipality, nearby.
19. 1:31And when you move house in Italy, you also change your life on paper.
20. 1:36Address, documents, taxes: everything must follow you to the new house.
21. 1:41Exactly. I've already moved my residence, and that's another story.
22. 1:46But now the bank is asking me for the certificate of residence, the real, official one, with the stamp of the municipality.
23. 1:53And it's not over, is it?
24. 1:55No. My ID card expires in ten days,
25. 2:00and I have an appointment at 9:40 to get the new one.
26. 2:04And if there's time, I also have a question about the garbage tax for the new house.
27. 2:09Three things in one morning: I'm optimistic.
28. 2:13You're optimistic, and I like that. I'm here for two reasons. The first is to keep you company.
29. 2:20The second is something for my mother,
30. 2:22who can't come because her knee hurts. So she signed a proxy for me.
31. 2:27The proxy! It's an important word, and we'll explain it in detail later.
32. 2:31Yes, later. Now let's look around,
33. 2:35because this is a typical Monday morning scene in front of an Italian office.
34. 2:40Describe it yourself, you're good with details.
35. 2:42Let's see. There's an elderly man with a folder under his arm,
36. 2:47and a girl with headphones studying something on her phone.
37. 2:51Then there's a mother with a stroller. And there's a man in a suit and tie who checks his watch every minute.
38. 2:58He's in a hurry, you can tell. But here, haste is useless.
39. 3:04It's the first lesson of the day: when faced with bureaucracy, haste is a bad friend.
40. 3:10And you know what? For us Italians, bureaucracy is almost a character. We speak badly of it,
41. 3:17we joke about it, sometimes we imitate it. But we know it very well, because sooner or later we all go through it.
42. 3:25Everyone: the student, the plumber, the teacher, the grandfather. Standing at the counter, we're all the same.
43. 3:32All the same, and all with the same face. It's the face of someone who hopes they haven't forgotten anything at home.
44. 3:40I know that face well. I see it in the mirror every time I have to go to an office.
45. 3:45However, those listening don't have to understand every word. Come with us and listen to the scenes:
46. 3:52the important expressions will come back again and again, and by noon, they'll be yours.
47. 3:58And by noon, if all goes well, we'll be sitting at the bar celebrating.
48. 4:03Let's hope so. Look, the light comes on inside: someone's coming to open the door.
49. 4:09Wait, wait. Before we go in, let's do something important: let's check my backpack.
50. 4:16Because if something's missing, the morning is over before it begins.
51. 4:20My backpack is perfect; I packed it calmly last night.
52. 4:25Everyone says so. Let me see.
53. 4:28Please, check. Where do we start?
54. 4:31With the ID, always. Without it, you can't even enter the conversation.
55. 4:37Here it is: my old ID, still valid for ten days.
56. 4:42Valid: that's the key word. At the counter, an expired document is worthless,
57. 4:48even if it expired only a day ago.
58. 4:50I know, I know. In fact, I'm renewing it today. And I also have my driver's license in my wallet, just in case.
59. 4:57Excellent idea. Your driver's license and passport also count as identification,
60. 5:02so a second card in your pocket never hurts.
61. 5:05And then?
62. 5:06Then the photocopies. Did you make photocopies of the document?
63. 5:10Sure, front and back.
64. 5:13Good job. Let's explain this expression, because you'll hear it in every office.
65. 5:20Front and back means both sides of the document,
66. 5:25the front and the back. Usually they're made on the same sheet of paper.
67. 5:31The clerk will say, "I need a photocopy of the document,
68. 5:36front and back." And if you only bring the front, someone will look at you with great sadness.
69. 5:43Sadness, and maybe even a little satisfaction. Third thing:
70. 5:50your tax code, or your health insurance card, where the code is written.
71. 5:57There's that too. We'll talk about the tax code later, because it deserves its own discussion.
72. 6:04Fourth thing: a pen. A pen that writes,
73. 6:07not the one you got at the bank three years ago that no longer works.
74. 6:11I have two, a black one and a blue one.
75. 6:14You're ready for war. And the papers, how do you keep them?
76. 6:18In a clear plastic folder, with everything inside:
77. 6:21the document, the photocopies, and the letter from the bank.
78. 6:25I approve of this. My mother has a folder for everything: the house, the pension, the doctor, the bills.
79. 6:33She writes the name on the cover with a marker. And all these papers, she calls them... paperwork.
80. 6:41Paperwork! What a beautiful word.
81. 6:44Beautiful and a little unpleasant. Paperwork is the papers,
82. 6:48forms, and documents of bureaucracy, but said with a slightly tired tone.
83. 6:54If someone says, "Today I have to sort out the paperwork," it means they have a boring day ahead.
84. 7:01It's a word said with a sigh. No one in the world is happy to sort out paperwork.
85. 7:08No one. And now I'll give you my personal rule: better one photocopy too many than one too few.
86. 7:15This is Giovanni's rule, it's not a proverb, eh? But it's a golden rule.
87. 7:20Thank you. And I always respect it.
88. 7:23Always? We'll see.
89. 7:25What do you mean?
90. 7:26Nothing, nothing, let's move on. What's still missing?
91. 7:30The little things: a charged phone, a bottle of water, and something to read,
92. 7:36because the wait can be long. And then the most important thing of all.
93. 7:42Coffee?
94. 7:43No, patience. In front of a public office, you need to arm yourself with patience.
95. 7:49Arm yourself with patience: what a beautiful expression. Arming yourself means taking up arms,
96. 7:55like a soldier before battle. But here, your weapon is patience.
97. 8:01"Tomorrow I'm going to the registry office." "Oh, arm yourself with patience!" Everyone says it, and it's almost a good wish.
98. 8:08And while we're at it, let's also explain the registry office.
99. 8:11The registry office is the municipal office that keeps people's data:
100. 8:15where you live, when you were born, who lives with you.
101. 8:19It's the office of certificates. There's the certificate of residence, which you need,
102. 8:24and there's the certificate of family status,
103. 8:27which tells you who lives in the same house. So many things in life pass through there.
104. 8:32And it's also the office where you get your ID card, at least here, in my new municipality.
105. 8:37Perfect: your backpack is checked. ID, photocopies,
106. 8:42tax code, pens, folder. And your patience is... charged.
107. 8:48Like your phone.
108. 8:49Like your phone. Hey, look: the door opens!
109. 8:53And look at everyone: nine people moving together, toward the same machine.
110. 8:59The number machine, the heart of the morning. Let's go, quickly, before the others arrive!
111. 9:06But didn't you say that haste is a bad friend?
112. 9:09For the number machine, an exception is made.
113. 9:11Here it is: a gray column with a screen, and on the screen, lots of buttons.
114. 9:18It's called a queue management system. Nice word, right? It eliminates queues, in theory.
115. 9:24In theory. In practice, the queue is always there, only now it's sitting down.
116. 9:29This is true. So, what do you choose? Let's read the buttons: "Certificates,"
117. 9:37"Identity Card," "Change of Residence," "Marital Status."
118. 9:42And what is marital status?
119. 9:44It's the office of births, marriages, and deaths.
120. 9:48They are the great things in life, written in a register.
121. 9:51How poetic. But I choose "Certificates." I press the button and... my number comes up.
122. 9:59Read it aloud.
123. 10:01At seventeen.
124. 10:02At seventeen. Hold on to it, because the little number is sacred: if you lose it, you start over.
125. 10:10Let's explain the word, because it's beautiful. The number, when it's small, becomes numerino.
126. 10:16It's a little piece of paper with a number printed on it: you take it when you enter, and then wait for it to be called.
127. 10:24And you find it everywhere: at the post office, at the bank, at the city hall, even at the deli counter in the supermarket.
128. 10:32"Did you take the little number?" is one of the most common questions in Italy.
129. 10:35And why numerino, and not simply numero?
130. 10:38Because Italians like diminutives.
131. 10:41The moment becomes momentino, and coffee, sometimes, becomes caffettino.
132. 10:46The number becomes numerino because it's small, it's made of paper, and we love it and hate it at the same time.
133. 10:54We love it when it's small, and we hate it when it's high. And when the number changes on the screen,
134. 11:00there's always a little sound, and the whole room looks up at the same time.
135. 11:06Exactly. Look at the big screen up there. What does it say?
136. 11:11It says "Three at a time, window two." So there are fourteen people ahead of me.
137. 11:18Fourteen people. Make yourself comfortable.
138. 11:22And what about when there's no machine? At the doctor's, for example, or at the market?
139. 11:27There's the classic phrase: "Who's last?" You go in,
140. 11:32look at the people waiting, and ask who arrived last.
141. 11:36That way you know it's your turn right after them.
142. 11:39It's an old system, but it almost always works.
143. 11:43Almost always, because he's always there: the clever one.
144. 11:48The clever one! The one who arrives, pretends nothing's happening and stands in front of everyone.
145. 11:53Yes, him. He pretends to read a sign and slowly approaches the window.
146. 12:00And when the clerk says "Please," he's already there, with his paper in his hand.
147. 12:06And what do you say in that case, politely but firmly?
148. 12:11You say: "Excuse me, I was here first." It's a short, magical phrase.
149. 12:17I was here first means: I was here before you, so now it's my turn.
150. 12:24And tone is important. You don't shout: you say it calmly,
151. 12:30perhaps with a small smile. "Sorry, I was here first."
152. 12:34Let's try it. I'm the smart one, and you're the lady in line.
153. 12:39I approach the counter... "Good morning, just a quick piece of information..."
154. 12:44Sorry, I was here first. I also just have a quick piece of information.
155. 12:49Oh, sorry, I didn't see.
156. 12:51You didn't see, of course. Everyone says that.
157. 12:54Remember: "just a piece of information" is the smart one's favorite excuse.
158. 12:59And those who say "just a piece of information" usually stay at the counter for twenty minutes.
159. 13:05With the little number, however, the smart one has less of a chance, because the number is the number.
160. 13:10The number is the number, even if sometimes strange things happen.
161. 13:14The screen goes from seven to twelve, and no one understands why.
162. 13:19It happens because there are people with a different type of number,
163. 13:22with the letter B or the letter C. Each letter is a different service.
164. 13:27Yes, I know. But every time my heart stops for a moment, and I think: what if they skipped mine?
165. 13:34Your heart stops for everything. But the practical advice is sound: when you take the number,
166. 13:40look carefully at the letter, and then follow only yours on the screen.
167. 13:44And don't go to the bar for a coffee, because by the time you get back your number will have already been used.
168. 13:51Are you speaking from experience?
169. 13:52I won't answer that question.
170. 13:55As you wish, sir. Let's go sit: I saw two empty chairs near the window.
171. 14:02Near the window! What a luxury. The waiting room is the best place.
172. 14:06Here we are seated. Tell me the truth: what do you see?
173. 14:10I see a small theater. The waiting room of a public office is a whole world.
174. 14:17Tell me about it.
175. 14:18On the walls are signs:
176. 14:21"Please turn off your cell phone." "The counters close to the public at
177. 14:2712:30." "For payments, please go to counter three."
178. 14:33They're all written in that slightly stiff, slightly old-fashioned way.
179. 14:37It's the Italian of bureaucracy: "please," "please turn to." In real life, no one speaks like that.
180. 14:45No one, but everyone understands it. "Rivolgeri allo sportello tre,"
181. 14:50for example, simply means "go to counter three."
182. 14:55And then there are the people. The older gentleman with the clipboard sat down next to me
183. 15:02and has already started talking.
184. 15:03It's normal. In the waiting room, you talk to strangers, and the sentences are always the same.
185. 15:10Which ones?
186. 15:10The first is: "Are you here for residency too?" Or for your ID card,
187. 15:16or whatever. It's the way to start.
188. 15:19The second is: "What's your number?"—that's how you calculate how long it takes.
189. 15:23And the third is my favorite: "But how long does it usually take?" The answer is always the same.
190. 15:30"Well, it depends."
191. 15:32Great. In Italy, in front of an office, it all depends.
192. 15:37The gentleman told me his whole story. He's here for the third time in a week:
193. 15:42the first time a piece of paper was missing, and the second time the system was blocked.
194. 15:47The system blocked! This is another phrase to learn. The clerk looks at the computer and says:
195. 15:55"Sorry, the system isn't working today." And you can't do anything.
196. 16:00And he, poor thing, what did he do?
197. 16:02What could he do? He's back home, and he's trying again today.
198. 16:06Listen, we have to be fair: the clerks aren't the bad guys in the story.
199. 16:12Absolutely not. Look at that lady at counter two. It's ten to nine,
200. 16:18and she's already seen twenty people: twenty stories, twenty problems, twenty nervous people.
201. 16:25And she has to follow the rules. If a document is missing, she can't make it up. She often wants to help you, but she can't.
202. 16:33Her hands are tied, as they say.
203. 16:35Exactly. And many times the clerks are incredibly kind: they explain everything to you,
204. 16:41give you advice, say, "Come to me, I'll do it for you."
205. 16:45I've met fantastic people behind a counter, really.
206. 16:49One time a lady helped me fill out the whole form because she saw I was desperate.
207. 16:54You're always desperate.
208. 16:56That day, a little more so. Look at the screen: we're at A nine.
209. 17:01A nine. Eight numbers missing, and the man next to me says it will take forty minutes.
210. 17:09He's experienced, trust me.
211. 17:11Meanwhile, a girl approaches and asks everyone: "Excuse me,
212. 17:16are you here for the change of residence?" I think she's a foreigner. She speaks well, but she doesn't know where to go.
213. 17:22And someone answers her?
214. 17:24Three people at once! They explain where to take the number,
215. 17:28which button to press, and what documents are needed. One lady even lends her a pen.
216. 17:34Now, that's the great thing about the waiting room. We're all in the same boat, so we help each other.
217. 17:41A little patience and a little solidarity: that's how we survive.
218. 17:45And when patience runs out, there's always the right exclamation: "Holy patience!"
219. 17:51Holy patience! It's said when you're tired of waiting,
220. 17:56but you don't want to get really angry. It's like asking for a little help from heaven.
221. 18:01The man in the suit and tie said it three times in the last five minutes.
222. 18:07He hasn't armed himself with patience, you can tell.
223. 18:10He's armed himself with his watch. He looks at it, touches it, shakes it, as if time could go faster.
224. 18:18Poor thing. Maybe he has an important meeting.
225. 18:22Or maybe he's double-parked.
226. 18:25That's more likely. Wait, look at the screen: "Seventeen, window two."
227. 18:32Already? It's yours! But wasn't it supposed to be forty minutes?
228. 18:36Many numbers before me were gone: perhaps they got tired and left. I'm going!
229. 18:43I'm coming with you, I want to hear everything.
230. 18:46Counter two. Behind the glass is a lady with glasses, looking at me and waiting.
231. 18:54Important moment. Let's pause for a moment, because everything is decided here. What's the first thing you say?
232. 19:01Good morning.
233. 19:02Good morning, always. It seems obvious, but it's not.
234. 19:07Many people arrive at the counter and immediately begin with, "I need a certificate," without saying hello.
235. 19:14And for an Italian, this is a bit of a slap in the face.
236. 19:18Good morning is the front door: without good morning, the door feels a bit closed.
237. 19:24And after good morning?
238. 19:26Afterward, the clerk says, "Tell me." It's the typical counter phrase, and it means: tell me what you need.
239. 19:36Notice the formal "lei." At the counter, the formal "lei" is always used: the clerk addresses you formally,
240. 19:42and you address her formally. Even if you're the same age.
241. 19:46Even if she's a twenty-year-old girl. At the counter, the formal "lei" is a question of role, not age.
242. 19:54Let's set the scene. I'm the clerk, and you're Alessia, the citizen with the number A seventeen.
243. 20:01Hello.
244. 20:02Good morning, tell me.
245. 20:04Good morning. I need a certificate of residence.
246. 20:08Sure. Can you give me a document, please?
247. 20:11Here it is.
248. 20:12Thank you. What do you need the certificate for?
249. 20:16For the bank.
250. 20:17For the bank. In this case, it must be stamped. Do you have a stamp?
251. 20:23A stamp? Um... no.
252. 20:27Oh, I'm sorry, the stamp is missing. Without it, I can't give you the certificate for the bank.
253. 20:34And there I felt lost.
254. 20:36Let's stop the scene. Did you hear "I would need"? It's the conditional, and it's more polite than "I want."
255. 20:45"I want a certificate" sounds like an order,
256. 20:48while "I would need a certificate" sounds like a request.
257. 20:53You can also say "I would like a certificate of residence," and that's fine.
258. 20:58But "I would need" has a more humble tone. It's like saying: I have a little problem, can you help me?
259. 21:06And did you hear the clerk? He said, "Can you give me a document, please?"
260. 21:12which is a polite question, with the formal "Sie." Sometimes, however, you'll hear "Give me a document":
261. 21:19it's the imperative, always with the formal "Sie," only a little more direct. Then there's "For what purpose?"
262. 21:26It seems like a strange question: why does the clerk care what you do with the certificate?
263. 21:31Because for some purposes a revenue stamp is required, and for others it isn't. It changes everything.
264. 21:37And you discovered this right there, in front of the glass.
265. 21:40Right there, in front of the glass, with my beautiful, perfect folder.
266. 21:44The perfect folder, I remember it.
267. 21:47Don't laugh.
268. 21:48No. Just a little.
269. 21:51Anyway, the lady at the counter was very kind. She said, "Go to the tobacconist,
270. 21:57across the street. When you come back, don't take another number: come directly to me."
271. 22:02What an angel.
272. 22:03A true angel. I said, "Thank you so much, that's very kind of you," and she replied, "You're welcome."
273. 22:11You're welcome: it's the formal response to a thank you. With the informal "tu" (formerly "tu"), you say "you're welcome,"
274. 22:17with the informal "lei" (formerly "lei"), you say "you're welcome." It means: you're welcome, it's normal.
275. 22:22Let's review the scene from the perspective of someone studying. Good morning, "I need,"
276. 22:29the document, "for what purpose." And then the phrase no one wants to hear: the revenue stamp is missing.
277. 22:38Missing: the verb "mancarere" (to "mancare"). You'll hear it a lot today. "The signature is missing,
278. 22:44" "the photocopy is missing," "a document is missing." When something is missing, it's missing.
279. 22:51And be careful: if two things are missing, the verb changes. "Two signatures are missing," "the photocopies are missing."
280. 23:00Well done. In the singular, "mancare"; in the plural, "mancare." And let's hope we never hear them again.
281. 23:08One last thing about tone. The lady wasn't unpleasant.
282. 23:12She told me "the revenue stamp is missing" like a doctor telling you "you have a slight fever":
283. 23:18calmly, without drama.
284. 23:21Because for her it's normal: she says it twenty times a day.
285. 23:25And for me it was the first time. But it doesn't matter. Now I'm going out to the tobacconist. Are you coming?
286. 23:32I'm coming. But first, explain something to me: what exactly is
287. 23:36this revenue stamp? Pretend I've just arrived in Italy.
288. 23:41Very good, foreigner. I'll explain it to you while we cross the street.
289. 23:46So, ma'am, I'm a foreigner and I've just arrived. What is a revenue stamp?
290. 23:52It's a sticker: a small sticker with a value in euros and a code printed on it.
291. 23:59You buy it and then stick it on certain documents.
292. 24:03Like a stamp?
293. 24:05A bit like a stamp. But the stamp pays for the letter's journey,
294. 24:10while the revenue stamp pays a tax on the document.
295. 24:15A tax on a sheet of paper?
296. 24:17More or less. On certain official documents, like my bank certificate,
297. 24:24the government requires this small tax. And the revenue stamp proves you paid it.
298. 24:30And where do you buy it?
299. 24:32Usually at the tobacconist's, the shop with the big T outside,
300. 24:36where you also buy bus tickets and phone top-ups.
301. 24:41There it is, the tobacconist's. Let's go in. What do you say to the tobacconist?
302. 24:46"Good morning, a sixteen-euro revenue stamp, please."
303. 24:51Sixteen euros? Why, are there different denominations?
304. 24:55Yes, there are revenue stamps of different values. For certificates and many applications at offices,
305. 25:02you usually need the sixteen-euro one. But always ask the office first which one you need.
306. 25:08Wise advice. And what does the tobacconist do? Open a drawer full of stickers?
307. 25:14Not today: they print it on the spot, from a small machine near the register, and give it to you with the receipt.
308. 25:21How modern. Now, let's explain two expressions that go together: "in bollo" and "in carta semplice."
309. 25:31In bollo means with a revenue stamp. My certificate for the bank, for example, must be issued with a revenue stamp.
310. 25:38In carta semplice, on the other hand, means without a stamp: a normal,
311. 25:44plain sheet of paper, without tax. For some uses, the certificate is issued on plain paper.
312. 25:50And who decides that? Not the employee, nor even the citizen. It's decided by law, depending on the use.
313. 25:57That's why they asked you "for what use."
314. 26:00Precisely for this reason. Do you understand the mechanism?
315. 26:03Got it. And did you know there's an older expression, "stamped paper"?
316. 26:10Stamped paper! Once upon a time, for official documents,
317. 26:15you'd buy a special sheet of paper with the stamp already printed on it. It was called stamped paper.
318. 26:23My grandfather had a drawer full of it. He always said you never know.
319. 26:29That's where your golden rule comes from! Now I understand where you got it from.
320. 26:34From family, yes. And today "stamped paper" is also used in a special sense.
321. 26:41When two people fight with lawyers, it's said they're waging war with stamped paper.
322. 26:49That is, with official letters, lawyers, and courts.
323. 26:54"My neighbors don't talk to each other anymore: they're waging war with stamped paper."
324. 27:00Over a tree that provides shade, over a low wall, over a parking space. Those are condominium wars.
325. 27:07How sad.
326. 27:08Very sad. We, on the other hand, make peace with the tobacconist. Do you have your brand?
327. 27:14I have it. Shall we go back?
328. 27:15Shall we go back. But do we have to get the number back?
329. 27:18No! The lady said to go straight to her. I told you: she's an angel.
330. 27:24So hurry, before the shift changes.
331. 27:26And here I am again at counter two: "Good morning again. Here's the tax stamp."
332. 27:32And the clerk?
333. 27:33She takes the stamp and sticks it on the certificate. Then she stamps it,
334. 27:37signs it, and gives it to me: "Here you are, ma'am. Have a nice day."
335. 27:41Done like this, in five minutes?
336. 27:44In five minutes. This is my certificate of residence,
337. 27:48with my new address, the municipal stamp, and the sixteen-euro tax stamp.
338. 27:54Let me see it. It's beautiful, it looks like a diploma.
339. 27:58It's my morning diploma, the first piece of paper of the day!
340. 28:02Congratulations: one to zero for you.
341. 28:05Thank you, I feel like a champion. And to think that half an hour ago I felt lost.
342. 28:10Bureaucracy is like that. One moment you're desperate,
343. 28:13and the next you're holding a piece of paper in your hand and feeling like the queen of the world.
344. 28:17It's the roller coaster of bureaucracy.
345. 28:20Exactly. But wait before celebrating, and look who's at the forms table.
346. 28:26There's the elderly gentleman with the folder. He's holding a form and a pen, and he looks very worried.
347. 28:34Let's go see, maybe he needs a hand.
348. 28:38Good morning, sir. Are you okay? Do you need a hand?
349. 28:42And what does he say?
350. 28:44He replies: "Miss, you're kind. This form... I don't understand anything.
351. 28:50And at the top it says it must be filled out in capital letters."
352. 28:55There it is, the expression we've been waiting for: it must be filled out in capital letters.
353. 29:00You'll find it written on almost all Italian forms.
354. 29:04Let's play a little game with our listeners, a little quiz.
355. 29:08What does it mean to fill out in capital letters? Answer A: write with a black pen. Answer B:
356. 29:16write in capital letters, separated from each other. Answer C: write in cursive, all together.
357. 29:29The correct answer is B. Filling out in capital letters means writing in capital letters,
358. 29:34separated from each other, like the letters printed in newspapers. That's why it's called capital letters.
359. 29:40And the opposite is cursive: the letters all stuck together,
360. 29:44with curves, like we write by hand in everyday life.
361. 29:48Cursive is beautiful, but no one likes it in offices.
362. 29:52Everyone has their own handwriting, and often nothing is understood.
363. 29:56I know something about this: my handwriting looks like a doctor's.
364. 30:01It's true. You once left me a note on the table, and I thought it was a prescription.
365. 30:07How mean. But you're right. I once filled out a form in cursive. The clerk looked at it,
366. 30:15turned the page over, and looked at it again. Then he said, "Could you print it again for me, please?"
367. 30:23"Could you print it again for me, please?" What a beautiful phrase: polite, but without a choice.
368. 30:29Without any choice at all. And notice the grammatical form of "va compilati." Va compilati means "must be filled out,"
369. 30:38and it's a very common form in documents: "the form must be signed," "the application must be submitted by Friday."
370. 30:46The verb andare plus the participle: it's something that must be done.
371. 30:51It's office language, but you'll hear it at home, too. "Pasta should be eaten hot!"
372. 30:58My mother says this every Sunday.
373. 31:01But back to the gentleman: I'll help him. "So, sir:
374. 31:06write your last name here, and your first name here. In capital letters, all capital letters."
375. 31:12What else is on the form?
376. 31:14The usual things: place and date of birth, home address, a phone number.
377. 31:22Sometimes there's also a box to tick,
378. 31:25a small square where you put a small cross to say yes. And at the bottom, the signature.
379. 31:32And next to the signature, there are usually two more words:
380. 31:36place and date. That is, the name of the city where you are, and today's date.
381. 31:41The signature, mind you, is not printed. The signature is written as usual, by hand, in your own style.
382. 31:50Right. It's the only place on the form where cursive is welcome.
383. 31:55It's your signature, and no one can tell you how to do it.
384. 31:58The gentleman finished and said to me, "Thank you, miss.
385. 32:02My niece usually does these things on the computer. But today she's working."
386. 32:08How sweet. And what did you say to him?
387. 32:11I said, "You're welcome, it was a pleasure." Then he showed me his folder.
388. 32:16It was full of certificates: residence, family status,
389. 32:21all stamped, each with its own sixteen-euro stamp.
390. 32:24All stamped? And why?
391. 32:27He explained it to me: "I always bring them all, just in case."
392. 32:31Like my grandfather. But maybe he shouldn't have even brought them.
393. 32:35That's exactly what I thought. Because for many things, with public offices, self-certification is enough.
394. 32:43Self-certification: here's another key word today.
395. 32:48Let's explain it carefully, because it can save you time and money.
396. 32:53A lot of time and a lot of money. The gentleman spent quite a few euros on stamps, perhaps for nothing.
397. 33:01My goodness. With that money, you could have paid for a nice dinner.
398. 33:05A pizza for two, at least. But before the self-certification,
399. 33:10let's look at the clock: I have an appointment at 9:40.
400. 33:13It's 9:10, you have time.
401. 33:16I'll explain the self-certification to you, and you play the gentleman with the folder.
402. 33:21Gladly. Miss, explain everything to me calmly: I'm an old-fashioned man.
403. 33:28Of course, sir. The self-certification, then. The official name is very long, "
404. 33:34self-certification," but everyone says "self-certification."
405. 33:40Auto? Like automobile?
406. 33:44No, sir. Here, auto means "alone," "about oneself," as in self-portrait.
407. 33:52A self-certification is a piece of paper where you declare something about yourself, alone. And then you sign it.
408. 33:59For example?
409. 34:01For example: "I, Alessia, declare that I live at this address." Or:
410. 34:07"I declare that I was born in this city, on this date." Or whoever lives with you, if you're married, things like that.
411. 34:15And does this paper replace the municipal certificate?
412. 34:18Exactly, it replaces the certificate. It was created precisely for this:
413. 34:24to avoid having to queue at the registry office for every little thing.
414. 34:28Enough, I'll stop acting like a gentleman. But now I have a real question: does it work everywhere?
415. 34:33No, and here's the important thing. It works with public offices:
416. 34:38a public office must accept the self-certification, and can't ask you for a certificate.
417. 34:45Not even if they want to?
418. 34:46Not even if they want to. They must accept your statement, and then, if they want, they can check it themselves.
419. 34:52So, for an application to the Municipality or to enroll a child in school,
420. 34:56Usually, a self-certification is enough. What about private individuals? With a bank, for example?
421. 35:02With private individuals, it's different. A private individual can accept a self-certification, but they're not required to.
422. 35:09My bank told me they prefer the real certificate, and so...
423. 35:13And so, the stamp duty, the tobacconist, and the second branch. Now it all makes sense.
424. 35:20It all makes sense. But be careful about one serious thing: when you sign a self-certification,
425. 35:27you're declaring the truth. If you write something false, you're committing a crime.
426. 35:31A crime. It's not a joke.
427. 35:34No, not at all. The authorities carry out checks, often randomly:
428. 35:39they select certain declarations and verify them.
429. 35:43And those who make false declarations are at great risk. So, you always write the truth.
430. 35:48Did you know that this word has a special memory for many Italians?
431. 35:53Two thousand and twenty.
432. 35:54Two thousand and twenty. During the lockdown, to leave the house you needed a signed form,
433. 36:00where you wrote where you were going and why. And everyone called it a self-certification.
434. 36:07I remember it very well. I'd print it, fold it in four, and put it in my jacket pocket,
435. 36:14to go grocery shopping or to the pharmacy.
436. 36:17And every now and then it changed, do you remember? A new form would come out, and you'd have to print a new one.
437. 36:23Yes, it was a strange time. In just a few days, all of Italy learned a bureaucratic word.
438. 36:32A word that previously only clerks and grandparents with folders knew.
439. 36:37And it stuck: today, even kids know it.
440. 36:41Okay, let's get back to this morning. How do you actually write a self-certification?
441. 36:47Usually, you don't have to invent anything. You can find the form on the municipality's website,
442. 36:53or they'll give it to you at the counter. You fill it out, in capital letters, of course, and sign it.
443. 37:00And at the bottom, before the signature, you sometimes find two ancient words: "In faith."
444. 37:06In faith means more or less "with sincerity,"
445. 37:09or "I declare that it is true." It's an old formula, but it's still used.
446. 37:14I like it. "In faith, Giovanni." It sounds like the end of a love letter from two hundred years ago.
447. 37:22A love letter to the registry office.
448. 37:24How romantic. "Dear registry office, I'm writing to tell you where I live. Sincerely."
449. 37:30Enough, enough! Anyway, is everything clear?
450. 37:34All clear. And even the gentleman with the clipboard understood everything in an instant.
451. 37:39He looked at me and said, "And you're telling me now? All this money in revenue stamps!"
452. 37:45Poor thing. But at least next time he knows, and he's already told the whole waiting room.
453. 37:51Yes, now he's teaching the others. I could hear him say, "Ma'am,
454. 37:57you don't need a certificate! A self-certification is enough!"
455. 38:01From student to professor in five minutes: this is the Italian waiting room.
456. 38:07Listen, your ID card appointment is at 9:40. What time is it?
457. 38:13It's 9:15: we have twenty-five minutes.
458. 38:17Twenty-five minutes free. Do you know what that means?
459. 38:21It's column time!
460. 38:23And now... What do you call it?
461. 38:26The column where Italy disagrees with itself! Today, no offices and no forms:
462. 38:33today, let's talk about fruit. Giovanni, listen carefully. It's a large fruit, sometimes enormous.
463. 38:40It's green on the outside, striped, and red on the inside, full of water and black seeds.
464. 38:46In the summer, you eat it in slices, cold from the refrigerator, and the juice runs down to your elbows. What's it called?
465. 38:53Easy: it's watermelon.
466. 38:55For you, it's watermelon. But if you ask a Roman or a Florentine, they'll answer with another word.
467. 39:02Watermelon.
468. 39:04Watermelon! Same fruit, two names. And that's not all.
469. 39:08Let's take a tour of Italy. In the North, almost everyone says watermelon:
470. 39:13"Shall we buy a watermelon for dinner in the garden tonight?"
471. 39:16In Tuscany and Rome, however, they say cocomero: "Smell that sweet watermelon!" In Rome, in the summer,
472. 39:24there are even watermelon stands, where in the evening you can eat it in slices, outdoors, with friends.
473. 39:31And in the South, in many places, you hear yet another word: watermelon.
474. 39:36I like the word "water melon" because it describes the fruit: it's a melon full of water.
475. 39:42But beware of a trap. In standard Italian, melone, by itself,
476. 39:48is another fruit: the orange one inside, which in the summer is eaten with prosciutto.
477. 39:53Prosciutto and melone! So, if you ask for "a melone" at the market, they'll usually give you that, not watermelon.
478. 40:02So, which word should I use? My advice is watermelon or cocomero, because everyone understands them, from North to South.
479. 40:12Pick one and use it without fear. If you say watermelon in Milan,
480. 40:17they'll understand you perfectly, and maybe they'll just ask where you're from.
481. 40:22Let's set the scene. We're at the market, in August, and it's scorching hot. You're the greengrocer.
482. 40:29Good morning, ma'am! What can I give you today?
483. 40:32Good morning! I'd like a watermelon, but not too big: there's only two of us. Can
484. 40:37I give you half a watermelon? I'll cut it right away. Look how red it is!
485. 40:42Perfect, half is enough. But is it sweet?
486. 40:45Ma'am, it's a sugar. If it's not sweet, come back here and tell me. Do you need anything else?
487. 40:52No, thanks, that's enough. How much is it?
488. 40:55It's four euros, ma'am. Have a nice day, and happy watermelon!
489. 40:59And now you, go home. Repeat after me: watermelon, watermelon, watermelon.
490. 41:13Bravo, oh brava! Three words for a single fruit.
491. 41:16And a little confession: Giovanni and I don't agree either. He says watermelon, and I say cocomero.
492. 41:26Always have. And we still get along.
493. 41:29Almost always. In the summer, at the market, we argue for ten minutes before buying one.
494. 41:36And in the end, we buy it, and we call it "that one."
495. 41:40And you, what do you call it? Write it in the comments.
496. 41:43When in Rome...
497. 41:44...a different word!
498. 41:46Good. We have twenty minutes left before your appointment,
499. 41:50and we had an unfinished promise: the tax code.
500. 41:54The tax code. For an Italian, it's a perfectly normal thing, but for a foreigner, it's a bit of a mystery.
501. 42:02Let's explain it from the beginning. The tax code is a sixteen-character code,
502. 42:07made up of letters and numbers, and each person has their own. It's like your name, but for the state.
503. 42:14And they ask you for it everywhere: at the pharmacy, at the doctor, when you sign a contract,
504. 42:20when you open a bank account, when you enroll in university.
505. 42:24At the pharmacy, it's my favorite moment. You pay for your medicine,
506. 42:28and the pharmacist asks, "Should I put my tax code on the receipt?"
507. 42:33Because those expenses can then be deducted from your taxes.
508. 42:37So everyone says yes and gives you their health card.
509. 42:41And the code is written on the health card. But many Italians know it by heart.
510. 42:47I've known it by heart since I was eighteen.
511. 42:50I don't. Every time I read it off the card, letter by letter, like a child.
512. 42:55But the funniest thing is something else: you can read the tax code, because it's not a random number.
513. 43:02Really? And how do you read it?
514. 43:05The first three letters come from your last name, and they're usually its consonants.
515. 43:10Then there are three more letters, which come from your first name.
516. 43:14And then?
517. 43:15Then there are two numbers for the year of birth: if you were born in '92, it says '92.'
518. 43:22Then there's a letter that indicates the month: for example,
519. 43:26A means January. And then there are two numbers for the day.
520. 43:32So far, so easy.
521. 43:33Wait, because here's the little secret. For women, forty is added to their birth date.
522. 43:41Forty? Why?
523. 43:42To distinguish men from women.
524. 43:45A woman born on the fifth of the month has forty-five in her tax code.
525. 43:51How curious. So from the code, you can immediately tell if she's a man or a woman.
526. 43:56Exactly. Then there are four characters for the place of birth, a letter and three numbers,
527. 44:03because each Italian municipality has its own code. And those born abroad have a code that begins with Z.
528. 44:11With a Z? I didn't know that.
529. 44:14And the last character is a check letter, which is used to verify that the code is spelled correctly.
530. 44:22So, if I look at your tax code, I know your last name, your first name, when you were born and where.
531. 44:29More or less. That's why the tax code isn't given to just anyone: it's personal data.
532. 44:35Right. And how do people coming to Italy from abroad get one?
533. 44:40They usually ask the Revenue Agency, the tax office.
534. 44:45And for a foreigner, it's often the first thing to do, because without a tax code, you can't do almost anything.
535. 44:52Imagine arriving in Italy to study. You find a beautiful room for rent,
536. 44:58with a balcony. And the landlord says, "For the contract, I need your tax code."
537. 45:04And you reply, "My code... what?"
538. 45:07And that's when you begin to understand Italy.
539. 45:10The tax code is the key to everything: the house contract,
540. 45:14Work, the family doctor. It all starts with those sixteen characters.
541. 45:20And there's one last important thing: the tax code doesn't expire.
542. 45:25No, Italians have it from birth and for life.
543. 45:28It's the health card that expires, not the code.
544. 45:31Thank goodness, at least one thing doesn't expire.
545. 45:34Unlike my ID card.
546. 45:36And my documents, in general. I always discover that something has expired on the very day I need it.
547. 45:44This is a talent.
548. 45:45A national talent. What time is it?
549. 45:48It's 9:35.
550. 45:50Your appointment!
551. 45:51Let's go! If you're late for an appointment at the City Hall,
552. 45:55you risk missing your turn and having to start all over again.
553. 45:57Hurry! This time, haste is your friend.
554. 46:01Here I am at the ID card counter. There's no number here, because you can only get in by appointment.
555. 46:07By appointment, meaning you booked a few days in advance.
556. 46:11A few weeks in advance. In many municipalities, you have to book your ID card
557. 46:15well in advance. I booked a month ago, online.
558. 46:20A month ago! And your card expires in ten days: you did well.
559. 46:26I did very well. The ID card these days is electronic.
560. 46:30It's a plastic card, the size of a credit card, with a chip inside.
561. 46:35With a chip, very modern.
562. 46:37And to get one, you need to bring a few things: the old card, the health card, and a passport photo.
563. 46:44The passport photo! Come on, let's tell the story of the passport photo.
564. 46:48No, what a shame.
565. 46:50Come on, tell it, it's beautiful.
566. 46:52Whatever you want. The passport photo is the little photo for documents. Yesterday I went to the booth at the station,
567. 47:01the one where you sit, put in your coins, and the camera takes four photos of you.
568. 47:05And how did it go?
569. 47:06The first flash went off while I was fixing my hair, and the second while I was trying to smile.
570. 47:13In the end, I got a photo with your eyes wide open and your mouth a little crooked.
571. 47:18You look like a wanted man. I told you that last night too.
572. 47:22Thanks, you're always a great help. But for the ID card, you shouldn't smile too much.
573. 47:29The background should be light, and your face should be straight, without a hat or sunglasses.
574. 47:36So a wanted face is fine. And by the way, you're not the only one:
575. 47:40in my ID card photo, I look like my grandfather.
576. 47:43It's true, I saw you. You look like your grandfather on a rainy day.
577. 47:47Thank you so much. Go ahead.
578. 47:49I'll continue. I walk in, and the clerk is a young, very kind guy: "Good morning, have a seat."
579. 47:56Have a seat, that is, sit down. It's another classic counter phrase, polite and formal at the same time.
580. 48:04He checks my information and new address, and takes my passport photo.
581. 48:08Then he says to me: "Now place your index finger here, on the reader."
582. 48:13Fingerprints.
583. 48:15Yes, for the electronic card they also take fingerprints, first one finger and then the other.
584. 48:21Did you feel a little like you were in a movie?
585. 48:23A little, like a detective movie. But it was very quick. And then came a question I wasn't expecting.
586. 48:31Which one?
587. 48:32He asked me if I wanted to express my decision about organ donation.
588. 48:37Oh, yes, that's true. In many municipalities, they ask you right when you get your ID card.
589. 48:42And you can say yes, no, or even not answer. It's a free choice, and you can change it later.
590. 48:50And what did you say? If you want to say it.
591. 48:52I said yes. And I was a little emotional, I admit. You're there for a document,
592. 48:58thinking about photocopies and the tax stamp, and suddenly a big question comes up.
593. 49:05It's true. Amidst all the paperwork, a question about life.
594. 49:09I remained silent for a moment, and the guy waited calmly, without rushing me.
595. 49:16I like that. Even behind a counter, there are people who understand the important moments.
596. 49:22Then it's right back to the practicalities: the signature, the payment, the receipt.
597. 49:27And the card? Will they give it to you right away?
598. 49:30No, the electronic card isn't printed there. It usually arrives at home by mail,
599. 49:35after a few days. Or, in some municipalities, you can go and pick it up.
600. 49:40So today you leave without a new card.
601. 49:43I'm leaving with the receipt in hand, and now I'm waiting for the postman.
602. 49:47Let's hope he's quick. And that your name on the doorbell is spelled correctly.
603. 49:53The name on the doorbell is a long story: I'll tell you later.
604. 49:58I'll wait. Anyway, congratulations: two out of two.
605. 50:03The certificate is done and the ID is required. You're winning.
606. 50:09For now. And now it's your turn, with your mission for your mother and the famous proxy.
607. 50:15The famous proxy. And my golden rule: better one photocopy too many than one too few.
608. 50:21I remember the rule. Come on: what number do you need?
609. 50:25Electoral office, letter B. Come on.
610. 50:29First of all, let's explain my mission. My mother has always voted, in every election.
611. 50:36And every time you go to vote, they put a stamp on the voter card.
612. 50:41And her card is full.
613. 50:43Full: there's no more room for stamps. So she needs a new card, and I'm going to ask for one in her place.
614. 50:51And in her municipality, for that, a proxy is enough.
615. 50:54Exactly. A proxy is a piece of paper where a person says:
616. 50:58"I can't come, and he will come in my place." And then she signs it.
617. 51:03So your mother wrote something like, "I delegate my son Giovanni."
618. 51:08More or less. Usually there's a ready-made form: she filled it out, in capital letters, and signed it.
619. 51:16Good job, Mom. And what else do you need, besides the proxy?
620. 51:20You need my ID, her old, full card, and a photocopy of my mother's ID.
621. 51:26Because the office has to verify that the signature on the proxy is really hers.
622. 51:30Of course. And do you have everything?
623. 51:33I have everything: I'm the man of the golden rule. I take the number:
624. 51:39B twelve. And after ten minutes, counter four.
625. 51:42I'm coming with you, because I want to see the maestro in action.
626. 51:45Good morning. I need a new voter card for my mother, because hers is full. I have the proxy.
627. 51:52And the clerk?
628. 51:54He's a very calm, white-bearded gentleman. He takes the proxy and reads it,
629. 52:00then takes the old card and my ID.
630. 52:03Finally, he looks at me and says, "And the photocopy of the lady's ID?"
631. 52:08No.
632. 52:09Yes. I open the folder. The power of attorney is there, the old card is there, and there's also a photocopy of my ID,
633. 52:19twice, according to the golden rule. But the photocopy of my mother's ID... it's not there.
634. 52:26I can't believe it. The man from the golden rule!
635. 52:29It was on the kitchen table. I still see it there, next to the coffee maker.
636. 52:35I told you this morning, remember? "Always? We'll see."
637. 52:39Yes, yes, you win. And the clerk tells me the most famous phrase in Italian bureaucracy:
638. 52:47"I'm sorry, a document is missing. Come back tomorrow."
639. 52:52Come back tomorrow: two words that scare everyone.
640. 52:56Let's explain them carefully. Come back is the imperative with the formal "lei": you come back, she comes back.
641. 53:03"Come back tomorrow" means that today can't be done, and that you have to come again tomorrow.
642. 53:09And "a document is missing," you know by now: there's a document that's missing.
643. 53:14Said like that, it sounds like a sad poem.
644. 53:16And what did you do? Did you protest?
645. 53:19I tried. I told him, "I have it on my phone, a photo of my mother's ID!"
646. 53:24And he?
647. 53:24He, very kind, said to me, "I'm sorry, I need the paper copy here.
648. 53:30I can't do otherwise." And he's right: those are the rules.
649. 53:35So what?
650. 53:36And so I made my peace with it.
651. 53:39Making your peace with it: what a beautiful expression.
652. 53:42It means accepting something you can't change, and stopping getting angry.
653. 53:48Your heart is agitated, and you make it peace with it. "Has the train already left?
654. 53:53Make your peace with it and take the next one."
655. 53:57It's also used for things of love: "She hasn't called you again? Make your peace with it."
656. 54:03This one's a little sad, but it's true. Anyway, the clerk also said something kind to me:
657. 54:10"Come straight to me tomorrow morning. You don't have to wait in line again."
658. 54:15Another angel.
659. 54:17Today we're lucky with angels.
660. 54:19And tomorrow you'll be back.
661. 54:21Tomorrow I'll come back with the photocopy, or rather, three photocopies. And do you know what my grandfather always told me?
662. 54:29The grandfather of the stamped paper? What did he say?
663. 54:32"Perseverance wins." Perseverance
664. 54:35wins! This is a true, ancient proverb.
665. 54:39It means that he who perseveres, he who doesn't give up, wins in the end. Patience pays off.
666. 54:44It's perfect for bureaucracy. Are you coming back tomorrow? And I'll be back, and the day after, if necessary. Perseverance wins.
667. 54:53Sure, champ. But admit it: your golden rule didn't work today.
668. 54:59The rule worked. I'm the one who didn't work.
669. 55:03That's a good defense.
670. 55:05And you know what? Now I'll finally tell you the story of the four times.
671. 55:11I promised you it would come later, and now it's later.
672. 55:15Finally! Tell me.
673. 55:18Many years ago, I had just moved to a new city,
674. 55:22and I needed a document for work. Just one sheet of paper.
675. 55:26I go to the office, take a number, and wait an hour.
676. 55:31Then I get to the counter, and they tell me: "The photocopy of the document is missing."
677. 55:36First time.
678. 55:38First time. The next day I come back with the photocopy,
679. 55:42wait another hour in line, and get to the counter: "The revenue stamp is missing."
680. 55:48Second time. Oh my god.
681. 55:51On the third day, I buy the revenue stamp and come back in the afternoon.
682. 55:56But I find the door locked, because that day the office was only open in the morning.
683. 56:02Yep. In many municipalities, the offices are mostly open in the morning,
684. 56:06and only one or two afternoons a week. You should always check the opening hours before leaving home.
685. 56:13I hadn't checked them: third time.
686. 56:17On the fourth day, I arrived at a quarter to eight, like us today, with everything:
687. 56:22photocopy, tax stamp, document. I arrived at the office happy,
688. 56:27and the clerk said to me: "The form isn't signed."
689. 56:31No!
690. 56:32Yes, indeed. This time, however, I signed right there, in front of her,
691. 56:37and finally I got my paperwork. Four times: four mornings for just one piece of paper.
692. 56:44What a story! Sorry to laugh, but it's too good.
693. 56:48Laugh away, I'm laughing too today. But that day, as I was leaving, I realized something.
694. 56:55The problem wasn't the office: the problem was me, that I hadn't asked the right question the first time.
695. 57:03And what is the right question?
696. 57:05When you get to the office and they tell you something's missing, you shouldn't just say "OK" and walk away.
697. 57:12You have to ask politely: "Excuse me, can you write down everything I need?"
698. 57:18Perfect. So the clerk writes the complete list on a piece of paper: the photocopy,
699. 57:24the tax stamp, the signature, the time. Everything. And you only come back once.
700. 57:30Just once, instead of four times. And another trick: before leaving home,
701. 57:36check the page for the service you need on the City website.
702. 57:40There's usually a list of documents and the opening hours.
703. 57:44And if the website isn't clear, a phone call to the office before leaving can save an entire morning.
704. 57:51Absolutely. But the phrase at the counter remains the most important.
705. 57:55Everyone should know this phrase, and we'll say it to you slowly.
706. 58:00Repeat it after me: Excuse me, can you write down everything I need?
707. 58:11Well done. And always say it with a smile, because it works much better.
708. 58:16And while we're at it, let's put together the other phrases that help at the counter,
709. 58:20the ones that unravel difficult situations.
710. 58:23We've already said the first one: good morning, always.
711. 58:26The second is "I realize." For example: "I realize it's almost closing time,
712. 58:33but I just have one question." "I realize" means: I understand your situation.
713. 58:39The clerk feels understood and becomes more helpful.
714. 58:42The third is "Excuse me for insisting." You use it when you have to ask again,
715. 58:48without seeming aggressive: "Excuse me for insisting, but I really need this paper by Friday."
716. 58:55And the fourth is my favorite: "What do you recommend?" Put the problem in the clerk's hands,
717. 59:04trustingly, and the solution often arrives.
718. 59:07Because people like to be helpful, even behind a counter, at ten to twelve.
719. 59:14And then there's the thing you never do.
720. 59:18Never, never. You don't have to shout,
721. 59:22and you don't say "This is absurd!" or "Nothing works in this country!" Even if you think so.
722. 59:30Especially if you think so. Because on the other side of the glass is a person, not a country.
723. 59:37A beautiful one. And the last sentence, even if it went badly, is: "Thank you, have a good day."
724. 59:45Because maybe you'll come back tomorrow, and the clerk will remember you.
725. 59:48He'll remember the kind gentleman with the forgotten photocopy.
726. 59:52Better this than the man yelling.
727. 59:55Much better. By the way,
728. 59:57this morning you said you also had to file for the garbage tax on the new house, right?
729. 1:00:02Oh, yes! When you move house, you also have to declare it for the garbage tax.
730. 1:00:08I'll ask here at the registry office, so I can do everything today.
731. 1:00:11At the registry office? Are you sure this is the right office?
732. 1:00:14No, but let's try. What could possibly happen?
733. 1:00:17You'll see.
734. 1:00:19I go back to the registry office counter and ask: "Good morning,
735. 1:00:23excuse me. For the garbage tax on the new house, is it here?"
736. 1:00:27And the answer?
737. 1:00:28"No, ma'am, it's not our responsibility. You have to go to the tax office, on the second floor."
738. 1:00:34It's not our responsibility: that's another phrase you should know.
739. 1:00:39It means that it's not our job, that it's not our responsibility, and that you have to go somewhere else.
740. 1:00:46It's a formal phrase, a little cold. But often it's simply true, because every office has its own role.
741. 1:00:53So let's go up to the second floor.
742. 1:00:56Let's go up. There's no number at the tax office,
743. 1:01:00just an open door and a woman at the desk. I explain everything to her.
744. 1:01:05And what about her?
745. 1:01:06She says, "Look, in this municipality the waste tax is managed by the company that collects the garbage.
746. 1:01:13You have to go to their office, which is on another street, a ten-minute walk away."
747. 1:01:18Another office, on another street.
748. 1:01:21And with different hours, of course: today it closes at twelve.
749. 1:01:25Do you know what it's called? Going from one office to another, from one office to another, for just one thing?
750. 1:01:32Going around the seven churches.
751. 1:01:34Going around the seven churches:
752. 1:01:37one of the most beautiful expressions of Italian bureaucracy. And it comes from afar.
753. 1:01:42It comes from Rome. Many centuries ago, pilgrims walked around seven important churches in the city,
754. 1:01:50in a single day. It was a long and arduous journey.
755. 1:01:54And today the expression means going to many different places to obtain something,
756. 1:01:59with effort and patience, without knowing exactly where it will end up.
757. 1:02:03"To get that permit, I went around the seven churches." Everyone says it,
758. 1:02:09even those who've never been to Rome. Once,
759. 1:02:12in an office, I heard a man say,
760. 1:02:15"They send me from one door to another like a ping-pong ball."
761. 1:02:20What a beautiful image: the ping-pong ball of bureaucracy.
762. 1:02:25And there's another expression that goes with this.
763. 1:02:28When every office sends you to another, and no one wants to take responsibility...
764. 1:02:33They're passing the buck.
765. 1:02:36Passing the buck. Imagine a heavy, full barrel
766. 1:02:41that no one wants to hold. And then everyone passes it on to the other.
767. 1:02:46It's used a lot at work, in politics, and in the family.
768. 1:02:50"Who broke the vase?" "It was him!" "No, it was her!" This is buck-passing.
769. 1:02:56But let's be fair again: today wasn't buck-passing.
770. 1:03:02The offices are truly divided, and everyone does their part.
771. 1:03:06It's true. The ladies were kind and precise,
772. 1:03:10and they sent me to the right place. It's the system that's complicated, not the people.
773. 1:03:15But sometimes the system becomes a real labyrinth. You know the dog chasing its tail?
774. 1:03:23Of course. The dog goes round and round, trying to catch its tail and never succeeds.
775. 1:03:30In bureaucracy, sometimes, that's exactly what happens. Imagine:
776. 1:03:35to get document A, you need document B, but to get document B, you need document A.
777. 1:03:42And you're in the middle, with your number in your hand.
778. 1:03:46This is the dog chasing its tail: a situation that goes round in circles, with no way out.
779. 1:03:53Luckily, it doesn't always happen. But when it does, the expression is perfect.
780. 1:03:59And how do you break out of the circle?
781. 1:04:01With the previous sentence: "What do you recommend?" And if necessary,
782. 1:04:05with the seven churches tour, one step at a time.
783. 1:04:09So you're going to the waste company now?
784. 1:04:12It's eleven thirty, it closes at twelve, and it's a ten-minute walk away...
785. 1:04:17You can do it!
786. 1:04:18I can do it. But you know what? I just looked on my phone, on their website,
787. 1:04:24and this declaration can also be made online. From home, tonight, in my pajamas.
788. 1:04:30In my pajamas! This is the bureaucracy of the future.
789. 1:04:33And why not? So many things are done this way now.
790. 1:04:37So, no tour of the seven churches today.
791. 1:04:40Just two churches: the registry office and the second floor. That's enough for me.
792. 1:04:45Two churches out of seven: you were lucky.
793. 1:04:49Very lucky. But now I want to understand something:
794. 1:04:53if so many things are done online, why are we all still here?
795. 1:04:58Good question. Because it's true: today, so many things are done from home.
796. 1:05:02So many. Many certificates, for example, can be downloaded online, without lines and without a number.
797. 1:05:09But excuse me, why were you here this morning at a quarter to eight?
798. 1:05:13I tried, you know? Last night. But the site asked me to log in with SPID, and I...
799. 1:05:18You didn't remember the password.
800. 1:05:20I didn't remember the password. I tried three times and then I gave up.
801. 1:05:25And I thought: tomorrow I'll go in person, so I can have a chat.
802. 1:05:29Let's explain SPID. It's your digital identity: a username and password that allow you to
803. 1:05:35access public administration websites. The municipality, taxes, healthcare, pensions.
804. 1:05:42It's like a single key, a key to many doors.
805. 1:05:46Or you can use your electronic ID card, along with your phone.
806. 1:05:51The one you get in a few days. And SPID, for those who don't have one,
807. 1:05:56is applied for only once, with a document and your tax code. Then you use it for years.
808. 1:06:02If you remember the password.
809. 1:06:04If you remember the password, of course. That's the real test.
810. 1:06:08Exactly. So next time, maybe, no queues.
811. 1:06:13Maybe. And what about the change of residence? Did you do it online?
812. 1:06:17Yes, I filed the declaration online last month,
813. 1:06:21in half an hour. And then the most Italian thing of all happened.
814. 1:06:25The traffic policeman.
815. 1:06:27The traffic policeman. After the declaration, the Municipality checks that you really live there,
816. 1:06:32and usually a traffic policeman comes to your house.
817. 1:06:35And he checks something very important: the name on the doorbell.
818. 1:06:40The name on the doorbell! Here's a golden tip for those moving to Italy:
819. 1:06:47put your name on the doorbell and in the mailbox right away.
820. 1:06:52If the traffic policeman can't find your name, it could be a problem.
821. 1:06:56Did you put it on the doorbell
822. 1:06:57and in the mailbox ? I had it: handwritten on a piece of paper and taped over it.
823. 1:07:04In block letters, I hope.
824. 1:07:05In block letters, of course! But the policeman came by while I was at work
825. 1:07:10and left a note in my mailbox:
826. 1:07:14"Passed by for residency check. Call this number."
827. 1:07:18And you called.
828. 1:07:19I called, we were on the phone for two minutes, and the next week he came back. Everything's fine.
829. 1:07:26See? Sometimes everything works.
830. 1:07:29Sometimes it does. And it has to be said, because we always talk about things that don't work.
831. 1:07:34True. But there are also those who can't cope online. Think of the man with the clipboard.
832. 1:07:40Yep. For many elderly people, the computer is a wall: the SPID,
833. 1:07:46the password, the code that arrives on the phone... it's too much.
834. 1:07:50And who helps these people?
835. 1:07:53Often a grandchild: "Grandma, give me the phone, I'll do it." It's a scene you see in many families.
836. 1:07:59I've done it for my mother a thousand times. She dictates the information to me,
837. 1:08:03I write it down, and she checks everything over my shoulder.
838. 1:08:07And then there are the offices that help people with the paperwork,
839. 1:08:11like the Patronato or the CAF (Italian Financial Assistance Fund). There, you'll find someone who'll explain everything to you and fill it out with you.
840. 1:08:17All Italians know about the CAF, especially for tax returns.
841. 1:08:22Once a year, so many people line up at the CAF.
842. 1:08:26Another line! We never get rid of the lines.
843. 1:08:29Never. And then there's the neighbor who knows everything: there's one in every building.
844. 1:08:35Mr. Expert!
845. 1:08:36Mr. Expert. The one who tells you, "No, no, for that you have to go to the third floor,
846. 1:08:42ask for the red-haired lady, and tell her I sent you."
847. 1:08:45And he's usually right!
848. 1:08:47He's usually right. He's a little walking guide to bureaucracy, and every neighborhood should have one.
849. 1:08:53And we'd pay him in coffee.
850. 1:08:54In coffee and cookies. Anyway, look at the clock: it's almost noon.
851. 1:08:59And I've done everything I can do today.
852. 1:09:03And I have to go back tomorrow.
853. 1:09:04And you know what we're doing now?
854. 1:09:06I know it all too well: the victory coffee.
855. 1:09:09The victory coffee. Let's get out of here.
856. 1:09:12How lovely, the fresh air! We leave the City Hall, cross the square, and there's the bar.
857. 1:09:20Two coffees, please. Actually, a macchiato for me: I deserve it today.
858. 1:09:25Let's do the morning math. What are you bringing home?
859. 1:09:29The stamped residence certificate for the bank: done. The new ID card:
860. 1:09:35applied for, it arrives in the mail. The garbage tax: tonight, online, in my pajamas.
861. 1:09:41Three out of three, more or less.
862. 1:09:43More or less. And you?
863. 1:09:45Zero out of one. I'll be back tomorrow.
864. 1:09:47Come back tomorrow! But with a photocopy, please.
865. 1:09:51With three photocopies, and with peace of mind.
866. 1:09:54Do you know what I liked today? The people. The clerk at counter two,
867. 1:10:00who told me to come back directly to her.
868. 1:10:03The gentleman with the clipboard. The foreign girl everyone helped.
869. 1:10:08And the gentleman with the clipboard, did you see him leave? He had a huge smile:
870. 1:10:14this time he made it, on the third try. I liked the people, too.
871. 1:10:20Italian bureaucracy is slow, complicated, and full of rules.
872. 1:10:25But inside offices, there are people, and often it's the people who save your morning.
873. 1:10:31This is the quote of the day.
874. 1:10:34I'll write it down, in capital letters.
875. 1:10:36Well done. And now, with coffee in front of us, let's review everything we've learned,
876. 1:10:42so those listening can review with us.
877. 1:10:45Let's start from the beginning: a quarter to eight,
878. 1:10:49and nine people at the door. Before entering, we checked our backpacks:
879. 1:10:55a valid ID, photocopies of both sides,
880. 1:10:59our tax code, and a writing pen. All in a folder.
881. 1:11:05Inside, we had the paperwork, as your mother calls it.
882. 1:11:09And then the most important thing: patience.
883. 1:11:14When the door opened, we took the number from the queue eliminator: A seventeen.
884. 1:11:20There was the clever guy who wanted to go ahead, and we learned the phrase to stop him: "Excuse me, I was here first."
885. 1:11:28In the waiting room, we heard strangers exchange phrases: "Are you here for residency too?",
886. 1:11:34"What number do you have?", "But how long does it take?" And the universal answer: "Well, it depends."
887. 1:11:41And "Holy cow!" when the wait never ends.
888. 1:11:45At the counter: good morning, always. Then "Tell me," the formal "you,
889. 1:11:51" and "I need a certificate of residence." And the question that changes everything: "For what purpose?"
890. 1:11:58And the first bad news: there's no revenue stamp. Then the tobacconist,
891. 1:12:04the sixteen-euro stamp, and the difference between a revenue stamped certificate and one on plain paper.
892. 1:12:11With grandparents' stamped paper, and neighbors bickering over stamped paper.
893. 1:12:17Then the forms. The form must be filled out in block letters,
894. 1:12:21that is, in separate capital letters. Never in italics, except for the signature.
895. 1:12:27And the self-certification: the declaration you make about yourself. Public offices must accept it,
896. 1:12:35while private individuals can choose. And you always write the truth.
897. 1:12:40And mid-morning, watermelon. Or cucumber. Or melon.
898. 1:12:47It depends on where you were born.
899. 1:12:48That was the first half of the morning. Does that seem like a lot?
900. 1:12:52A lot. Many years ago, no one explained these things to me, and I wasted three out of four mornings.
901. 1:12:59And now our listeners know them, and they have a huge advantage.
902. 1:13:05When they go to an Italian office, they'll already know what awaits them: the office number, the formal formality, the tax stamp.
903. 1:13:13And they'll also know how to smile, which is the most important thing.
904. 1:13:17Yes, because bureaucracy isn't overcome with anger.
905. 1:13:21It's overcome with patience, with the right phrases, and a little irony.
906. 1:13:26With a little irony, and with a coffee afterward.
907. 1:13:29Always. By the way, your macchiato is getting cold.
908. 1:13:34You're right. I'll drink it, and then we'll go over the second half of the morning.
909. 1:13:39The busiest part: tax code, fingerprints, and forgotten authorizations.
910. 1:13:46Your forgotten authorizations, you mean.
911. 1:13:49My forgotten photocopy. The authorization was there!
912. 1:13:53Second half of the morning. While we were waiting for my appointment, the tax code: sixteen characters,
913. 1:14:00letters and numbers. Last name, first name, year, month, day, place of birth.
914. 1:14:08And the little secret: for women, forty is added to their birth date.
915. 1:14:12And those born abroad have a code that begins with Z.
916. 1:14:16Then there's the electronic identity card, by appointment. With a wanted passport photo, as some say.
917. 1:14:24I don't know who you're talking about.
918. 1:14:25Of course, of course. Then the fingerprints,
919. 1:14:28the application for organ donation, and the paper that arrives in the mail.
920. 1:14:33Then my proxy, for my mother's full voter card.
921. 1:14:39And the two sentences no one wants to hear: "One document is missing. Come back tomorrow."
922. 1:14:46And your champion's reaction: to accept it. Plus my grandfather's proverb: perseverance wins.
923. 1:14:55Then the story of the four times, finally. And the sentence that saves the mornings:
924. 1:15:02"Excuse me, can you write down everything I need?"
925. 1:15:06With the other golden sentences at the counter: "I realize,"
926. 1:15:10"Excuse me for insisting," "What do you recommend?" And no shouting, ever.
927. 1:15:17Then the round of seven churches, or at least two: the registry office and the second floor.
928. 1:15:23"It's not our responsibility." The buck-passing,
929. 1:15:27when no one wants the buck. And the dog chasing its own tail.
930. 1:15:32And the bureaucracy of the future: SPID, online certificates, the guard who checks the name on the doorbell.
931. 1:15:41And the building's Mr. Expert, who always knows everything.
932. 1:15:45A busy morning.
933. 1:15:47Very busy. And now the homework, because there's always a little homework.
934. 1:15:53This is the homework. Think about the last time you went to an office. A bank, a post office,
935. 1:16:02a local office. Tell it in Italian, out loud, using at least three contemporary expressions.
936. 1:16:10For example: "I took the number, I was patient, and in the end they said: come back tomorrow."
937. 1:16:19Which is the story of half of Italians.
938. 1:16:21And of my life.
939. 1:16:22And there's a second, smaller exercise. Act out the counter scene alone,
940. 1:16:28in front of the mirror. You are the citizen,
941. 1:16:31and the mirror is the clerk: "Good morning, I need a certificate." "For what use?" "For the bank."
942. 1:16:39And if the mirror says "come back tomorrow," accept it and try again the next day.
943. 1:16:47And then tell us in the comments. What's your most absurd bureaucratic story?
944. 1:16:53In Italy or in your own country. How did it end? Did you come back four times, like Giovanni?
945. 1:16:59Please tell me I'm not the only one.
946. 1:17:02This morning we were at the City Hall door at a quarter to eight,
947. 1:17:06with nine other people and a number to take. It's now noon,
948. 1:17:11and we have a coffee, a certificate, and a receipt.
949. 1:17:14And I have a photocopy to bring tomorrow. Thanks for standing in line with us all morning.
950. 1:17:21Next week we'll be moving: no offices, I promise.
951. 1:17:25Another Italian life situation, to be experienced together from start to finish.
952. 1:17:30Until then, arm yourselves with patience. And remember: persistence wins.
953. 1:17:36Bye everyone, and have a good day!