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Leading Cancer Researcher: They’re Ignoring My Research — Transcript

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0:00You have an envelope in front of you
0:01there. It's says confidential on the
0:02front of it. What is in that envelope?
0:04>> It's a paper that's under embargo
0:06because the world thinks it's going to
0:07be very important. And it's going to be
0:09a lead article in the Frontiers in
0:10Science because this is a strategy to
0:13manage cancer effectively. And we have a
0:15lot of evidence to keep these people
0:16alive a hell of a lot longer. We have
0:18given hope to the hopeless.
0:20>> And you have a perspective on treating
0:22cancer and other metabolic diseases that
0:24others don't have.
0:25>> Yes, but the problem is the field
0:26doesn't understand what I'm saying about
0:29the the origin of cancer. So, everything
0:31comes back to the mitochondria. And all
0:33chronic diseases and cancer are the
0:35result of damage to this. And the
0:36science is telling us this. But the
0:38field of cancer has yet to accept it.
0:41That is a tragedy.
0:42>> Are you pissed off about this?
0:43>> Well, who wouldn't be? There's 1,700
0:46people a day in this country dying from
0:49cancer. That's 70 an hour. And it gets
0:51worse every single year. When is the
0:53people going to wake up?
0:54>> So, give me a prescription of how I
0:56should live my life to keep my
0:57mitochondria healthy.
0:58>> So, it all comes down to what you do to
1:00maintain the health and vitality of the
1:02mitochondria that reduce the risk. But
1:04we are now in a new environment where we
1:06have massive amounts of highly processed
1:08carbohydrates, inactivity, emotional
1:11stress, poor sleep habits, and you
1:13chronically damage this organelle. And
1:15then if you look at the domestic dog,
1:17cancer is the number one killer of the
1:18domestic dog. But wolves in the wild
1:20rarely have cancer. But the wolf is out
1:22running around eating natural foods. Yet
1:24the dog is in an apartment somewhere.
1:26Gets a dog walker once a day, right? And
1:28the next thing the dog is obese and full
1:30of cancer.
1:31>> And I want to give people actionable
1:32things that they can think about.
1:33>> So, this is what's really important.
1:34This is a bioenergetic roadmap to
1:37health. This is what we call the zone of
1:39prevention. It's very hard to get cancer
1:41or chronic diseases when you're in these
1:43zones.
1:43>> So, let's talk about that. So,
1:48This is super interesting to me. My team
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1:52And some of you have told us, according
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2:37with the show.
2:40>> [music]
2:41[singing]
2:42>> Professor Thomas Seyfried.
2:44What is it that you've committed your
2:45life to doing, Thomas?
2:47>> Well, we're right now committed our
2:49lives to managing cancer effectively
2:52uh without toxicity. Which is based on
2:56based on the science that I and other
2:59others have done in this field.
3:00>> You have a perspective on treating
3:02cancer and other metabolic diseases that
3:04others don't have.
3:06The mainstream, should I say?
3:07>> Oh, yeah. Well, mainstream doesn't have
3:09it for sure. But, it's based on science.
3:11I mean
3:12I'm my work is based on what Otto
3:15Warburg, the famous German scientist,
3:17said from the 1920s, '30s, and '40s. He
3:20clearly showed that cancer was a
3:22mitochondrial metabolic disease.
3:25>> What does that mean, mitochondrial
3:26metabolic disease?
3:28>> Okay. It means that the origin of the
3:30disease resides in the organelle called
3:33the mitochondrion. It's it's in the
3:36cytoplasm of the cell. It used to be
3:39called, still is, the the powerhouse of
3:42the cell. It gives the cell the energy.
3:44>> I think we have a mitochondrion. Can one
3:45of my team bring in a mitochondrion?
3:47>> Well, this is you have a a mitochondrion
3:50here. Oh, here we go.
3:51>> You've got one each, yeah?
3:52>> Yeah, well, see, this is the little
3:53organelle that you see it looks like a
3:56bean shape, but it's actually a tubular
3:58network. These are tubes.
4:00>> Ah.
4:01>> And they respond dynamically inside the
4:03cell to uh both internal uh activities
4:08as well as external activities. So, you
4:11have to realize
4:12that at the time of conception uh all of
4:16the mitochondria for the developing
4:18embryo are in the cytoplasm from the
4:20mother.
4:21>> The cytoplasm?
4:22>> The mitochondria are not in the nucleus,
4:24they're in the cytosol.
4:26>> Oh, outside of it.
4:26>> Uh outside of the nuc- but in the cell
4:28at body itself.
4:29So,
4:30all of the mitochondria, they determine
4:32our destiny. They will determine how
4:33long you will live on the planet if if
4:36you don't have an an unfortunate
4:38accident or something like this.
4:40They have an expiration date. Different
4:42species die at different times. You
4:44don't find people living 400 years. Y-
4:46y- y- mice live about 2 and 1/2 years.
4:49Elephants live, you know, as long as we
4:50do or whatever. But, that's all
4:52determined by this organelle. So, you
4:54can see I have wrinkles and this kind of
4:55thing. This is from living on the
4:57planet. And this is from wear and tear
5:00on this organelle, which allows us to
5:03make energy efficiently. So, when this
5:05organelle starts to falter with age,
5:08uh you die. You die from old age. This
5:11organelle has to be protected and
5:13respected if you would like to live a
5:15normal lifespan.
5:16But, in diets and lifestyles and way we
5:19are today, we we we we damage this
5:21organelle. And this organelle then can
5:24present itself damage to this organelle,
5:26which is a tubular network inside the
5:28cell. But, let me say something else.
5:31It not only controls the internal
5:33environment of the cell, it also
5:35controls the neighboring cells, the
5:38liver neighborhood, the lung
5:39neighborhood, the colon neighborhood,
5:40the brain neighborhood, the glial
5:42neighborhood, the neuronal neighborhood,
5:43but they're all come from the same
5:46origin in that cytoplasm. And they
5:48determine the overall metabolic health
5:51of your body. It's a systemic. They
5:52communicate
5:54uh with each other across cells, across
5:56tissues. I'll tell you, this organelle
5:59controls
6:00>> [snorts]
6:00>> a lot of what goes with that nucleus
6:03does. It tells the cell when to divide.
6:06It tells the cell cell when to slow
6:08down.
6:09>> It's kind of like a brain, but also like
6:10an engine room.
6:11>> It's kind of like that. Certainly
6:13Certainly the brain part of it is really
6:16mysterious uh in the sense of of how it
6:20controls the destiny of the cell in the
6:22body.
6:22>> So, sickness
6:25sickness, disease, cancer
6:27what do we know about the role that this
6:29little thing plays in these chronic
6:31diseases and illnesses and cancers that
6:33so many people suffer with?
6:34>> Yeah, well, this is the organelle that
6:36becomes damaged.
6:37Um and it can be damaged in many, many
6:39different ways. Uh for cancer is what we
6:42[clears throat] have spent a lot of our
6:44time um
6:45and now we've moved into the whole
6:47chronic disease issue because each each
6:49chronic disease
6:51can have different manifestations of ill
6:54health to the mitochondria in a
6:56particular population of cells. But, in
6:58the case of cancer, which is what we
7:00call the most serious of the chronic
7:03diseases, creating the most trauma,
7:06uh the most emotional distress.
7:09But, we have clearly shown based on on
7:12many, many works uh that uh multiple
7:16things from our environment can damage
7:19this organelle in a particular
7:22population of cells in a particular
7:23organ. For example, when you talk about
7:26carcinogens,
7:27it's a chemical that causes cancer. How
7:30does that chemical cause cancer? It
7:32damages the proteins and the lipids.
7:36These little squiggles are delicate
7:38internal membranes. They They contain
7:42the proteins and the lipids that allows
7:44us to generate energy when we breathe.
7:47Okay, you're breathing, I'm breathing.
7:49I take in oxygen.
7:51Oxygen serves as a kind of
7:53a final acceptor for electrons that
7:56allows ATP
7:58to come out of this little and don't
8:00forget it's a tubular network.
8:01>> And ATP is the energy currency.
8:02>> It's the chemical energy currency. It
8:05allows us to enzymes to work. It allows
8:07allows all the metabolic machinery
8:10inside of a cell to work optimally.
8:12>> So just to play this back just so I'm
8:14clear.
8:15Oxygen comes in cuz I breathe in. I then
8:17eat food. In in that mitochondria, it
8:20does a process and it spits out ATP as
8:22the energy.
8:23>> Well, and the waste products of good
8:25energy metabolism would be CO2 and
8:28water. So, when we burn gasoline in an
8:30engine of a car, we break down the
8:33octane, the carbon hydrogen bonds in an
8:35octane and it we have an internal
8:37explosion that drives pistons. Okay, the
8:39exhaust is a lot of waste products
8:42from breaking down. The
8:44we're doing the same thing inside the
8:45cell. We're combusting carbon hydrogen
8:48bonds. And that combustion of carbon
8:50hydrogen bonds is a graded process. So,
8:53it's not an immediate explosion. It's a
8:56you're breaking down the carbon hydrogen
8:58bonds in a very precise way producing
9:00ATP which then drives the entire
9:02machinery of the neurons and the rest of
9:04the body.
9:05>> Mhm.
9:06>> It can respond dramatically to energetic
9:08stress, emotional stress. Anyway, I gave
9:11you an example of a carcinogen. Uh
9:13intermittent hypoxia, like people who
9:15have sleep apnea, they stop breathing
9:18for 30 seconds or more in that general
9:20and then they that creates ROS, r o s.
9:23And that's what carcinogens do, ROS.
9:25These are called reactive oxygen
9:27species. They damage those delicate
9:30membranes. And then what happens if it's
9:34too acute,
9:36too stressful, the whole cell will die.
9:38The cell loses its energy and we get
9:41uh apoptosis or necrosis and cell death.
9:44But, if it's gradual, chronic, over
9:47years, months, years, this organelle
9:51loses its ability to produce sufficient
9:53energy, but
9:55the the cell compensates,
9:58interestingly enough, by using these
10:00ancient pathways, heirlooms of our
10:03evolutionary past.
10:05So,
10:06um because all life on the planet
10:09evolved in an oxygen without oxygen in
10:12the dark, uh these cells grew like
10:14crazy. There was no There were single
10:16cells. They were unbridled proliferation
10:19and all this kind of stuff. They didn't
10:21have mitochondria. They had bacteria.
10:23And the bacteria,
10:25which this organelle came from, was a
10:27fusion between one cell
10:30uh that had a nucleus and and was
10:33was fermenting
10:35through the cytoplasm. And this
10:37bacteria, which is the mitochondria,
10:38came in. And now you have two different
10:41forms of energy. You have um the energy
10:44in the cytoplasm, the ancient
10:45fermentation, and then you have this new
10:47form, which can take in oxygen and
10:49generate energy much, much more
10:51efficiently than the aerolumic.
10:53Listen, one of our big discoveries,
10:56if you can believe it.
10:57But you see that space in the middle
10:59there?
10:59>> Yeah.
10:59>> That's called the matrix. And that's
11:01where the Krebs cycle, the TCA cycle,
11:04which breaks down the food that we eat.
11:06But they have an ancient part of a
11:09fermentation mechanism inside because
11:11before oxygen came, every all life forms
11:13were fermenters. They They produced
11:16energy without oxygen because there was
11:18no oxygen. We had to wait for those
11:20bacteria to make oxygen through a
11:22photosynthetic process. But all
11:24organisms were fermenters in the
11:26beginning.
11:27After this organelle came in and was
11:28able to take in oxygen, make energy
11:30really, really quick. But in that
11:31matrix, they have
11:33uh in the cycle, there's a little
11:34pathway there
11:36that makes energy without oxygen from
11:38the evolutionary past. So, we have it in
11:40the cytoplasm of the cell
11:42because they can use they can ferment in
11:44the cytoplasm. But this organelle our
11:46big discovery
11:47with the work of of Christos Chinopoulos
11:50from Semmelweis University. He's the
11:52world leader on that little pathway.
11:54When this organelle becomes
11:57impaired
11:58these ancient pathways of energy through
12:01fermentation arise. Okay, they they try
12:04to replace the lost energy from the
12:05efficiency of this organelle.
12:07That space starts throwing out ATP
12:12from glutamine. It's another
12:14fermentation fuel.
12:15And and it's making
12:18it's making ancient energy in the
12:20sophisticated organelle that was that
12:22was that that evolved to make efficient
12:25energy. So, let me let me tell you.
12:28So, you can you asked me what about
12:29damaging this organelle and what
12:31happens. If the damage to oxidative
12:34phosphorylation
12:35>> What does that mean?
12:36>> Which means energy through oxygen
12:38>> [clears throat]
12:38>> is too acute
12:40the cell will die.
12:42Cyanide is a perfect example of this.
12:46You take a mouse or a rat or a person
12:48and you drink Kool-Aid, the cyanide
12:50laced Kool-Aid, you die. Because what
12:52happens is that cyanide binds to the
12:55protein that's going to
12:58use oxygen for energy. And the whole
13:01system shuts down.
13:02>> you basically.
13:03>> Yeah, you die instantly. Um and there
13:05are other things that can kill
13:07can kill
13:08quickly, azide and a variety of other
13:10chemicals. But for chronic diseases,
13:12it's usually
13:13not an acute stress on this organelle.
13:16It's it's a chronic stress. And in
13:19cancer, what happens
13:21in a particular tissue, whether it's
13:23bone, lung, bladder, brain they
13:26gradually compensate with these ancient
13:28fermentation pathways. So So this thing
13:33this organelle
13:35signals to the nucleus, I'm suffocating.
13:38I'm not getting enough energy. Um So the
13:40nucleus turns on
13:42the transporters on the surface of the
13:44cell to bring in fuels
13:48that will elevate energy through what we
13:50call oxygen-independent mechanisms. This
13:53is an oxygen-dependent organelle. This
13:55gets most of its energy because we
13:57breathe all of our cells are using
13:59oxygen. And the CO2 that we're blowing
14:01out and the water that will be collected
14:03in the form of urine when you might
14:04might put
14:05other
14:06waste products in there. That's
14:08efficient metabolic homeostasis. This
14:10organelle makes not only the cell but
14:13the whole body
14:14in a state of of metabolic homeostasis,
14:17where all systems are working at optimal
14:19efficiency. But with chronic disruption,
14:23uh smoking,
14:24uh lack of exercise, you can go right
14:26down the list of all of the different
14:28things that can elicit cancer. Any kind
14:30of carcinogens, microplastics, forever
14:33chemicals, uh uh
14:35uh
14:36glyphosate, and any of these kinds of
14:38things that would chronically damage uh
14:40the ability of this organelle to produce
14:42energy, viruses, oncogenic viruses,
14:45inflammation. You have chronic
14:47inflammation. Any of those things damage
14:50this these sophisticated ability of this
14:52organelle to produce efficient energy.
14:54That's why
14:56That's why um
14:57uh the oncogenic paradox, which we
14:59solved.
15:00>> What's the oncogenic paradox?
15:01>> That was the paradox that was first put
15:03out by Albert Szent-Györgyi, a Hungarian
15:05[clears throat]
15:06scientist who received the Nobel Prize,
15:08I think, for vitamin C. He said He said
15:11he was very interested in cancer and
15:13living systems.
15:14He said there's a paradox. He said We
15:17know multiple things in in environment
15:20can elicit cancer. We've identified
15:22these. Oncogenic viruses, chronic
15:24inflammation, carcinogens, intermittent
15:27hypoxia, rare rare germline mutations.
15:31He said, "We don't understand
15:33the common pathophysiological
15:36mechanism by which any of those
15:39provocative agents would elicit
15:42dysregulated cell growth, which is
15:44cancer."
15:45When you talk about cancer, what do
15:46people say? "What's cancer?" It's cell
15:48division
15:50out of control. It's dysregulated cell
15:52growth.
15:53This organelle
15:55determines when cells should divide and
15:57when they should not divide. It
15:59regulates the destiny of the cell.
16:01So, what happens when this organelle
16:03becomes chronically impaired? It falls
16:07back on these ancient pathways, these or
16:09or or these or or
16:11uh pathways that existed before oxygen
16:14came into the environment, where all the
16:16cells were dysregulated in the growth
16:18because they didn't have this regulatory
16:20system, which is the mitochondria coming
16:22from a from a bacteria.
16:23>> So, let me play that back to you in a
16:24way just so I, you know, make sure I
16:25understand.
16:26>> I I know it can be kind of deep.
16:27>> Okay, so in this mitochondria here that
16:29I have in front of me, there is an
16:32ancient um because this came from
16:35>> a bacteria.
16:36>> a fusion of bacterias a long, long time
16:38ago.
16:39>> Yeah.
16:39>> That old bacteria
16:40>> about several billion years ago.
16:42>> used to be very selfish and just think
16:44about itself. It used to grow on its own
16:45and didn't communicate with anybody, had
16:47its own way of growing and multiplying
16:49that was really not um in cohesion with
16:51anything else. That is still in there
16:53somewhere.
16:55And although now in its modern form,
16:57because there's been that fusion, it
16:58grows thinking about the wider organism,
17:02um when it becomes
17:04uh damaged,
17:06it falls back on that old selfish way of
17:08growing. And sometime and that's kind of
17:10what can cause cancers. So, if you if
17:13there's stresses on this, which could be
17:15all the cos- carcinogenic things you
17:17described,
17:18then sometimes this falls back on that
17:20prehistoric selfish way of growing where
17:23it doesn't think about the wider
17:24organism.
17:25>> It's close. Um
17:27uh
17:28in in the sense of thinking, we don't
17:29know about that. We just know the
17:31consequences of what happens when it
17:34falls back on those ancient pathways.
17:36Now, here's the situation.
17:39People knew from what Otto Warburg said,
17:42"Cancer is a energy problem in the
17:45cell."
17:46This Why would the cells
17:48start to ferment and produce a massive
17:51amount of fermentation waste product,
17:53which is lactic acid,
17:55even in the presence of oxygen, 100%
17:58oxygen? They're still fermenting. Why?
18:00That shouldn't happen.
18:02Uh when you and I hold our breath or
18:04have a heart attack, let me tell you
18:05something, this is really remarkable.
18:07And this is another piece of information
18:09that got us on this whole thing.
18:11When people have heart attacks,
18:13uh they stop breathing.
18:15The heart seizes. Okay, the bloodstream
18:17immediately fills with these
18:19fermentation waste products, which are
18:21lactic acid,
18:23and the other one, which we now know is
18:25succinic acid. Okay, wow.
18:28These two waste products. Now, if you
18:30don't start breathing
18:32in a short period of time, you're going
18:33to be dead.
18:34>> Mhm.
18:35>> And you And what you die because the
18:36neurons in your brain cannot sustain
18:39this kind of fermentation energy for
18:41very long.
18:43As soon as you start your heart, you you
18:44give them cardiac massage and whatever,
18:46the guy's heart starts beating again,
18:49the lack the waste products
18:51of lactic acid and succinic acid go
18:53away. They disappear because you're
18:54breathing now. You don't need to ferment
18:56when you have oxygen in the environment.
18:58And it's And the mitochondria can can
19:00utilize the oxygen in the environment.
19:03Cancer cells, too, Warburg said,
19:05"It's the weirdest thing. These cancer
19:07cells
19:09um
19:10continue to ferment even in 100% of
19:12oxygen.
19:13Why are they doing that? And he
19:15speculated that this organelle was
19:18damaged.
19:19Irreversible damage to the organelle
19:23happened in these cancer cells.
19:26He didn't have an electron microscope at
19:28the time. He didn't have the
19:29sophisticated tools that we have today.
19:32So, he projected that all on
19:34biochemistry. At that time, he was a
19:36biochemist and he said, you don't should
19:38not produce fermentation if you have
19:41oxygen should shut that off and these
19:42guys should return to a normal metabolic
19:44homeostasis. And he said, that's because
19:46there's something
19:48irreversibly damaged in this organelle.
19:50So, a lot of people attacked him and
19:52they said, well, we don't have any
19:53evidence for that. Here here's the
19:54beautiful thing. Some cancer cells
19:56continue to take in oxygen and make ATP.
19:59Therefore, Warburg must be wrong.
20:01Uh-huh, we showed them that. We showed
20:04the cancer cell takes in oxygen, but
20:06it's not making energy through ATP in
20:08any great amount. It's using it for ROS,
20:10react- these radicals that further
20:13damage and cause the DNA mutations that
20:15everybody is chasing. It's all
20:17downstream effects of damage.
20:19>> So, what does this what does this mean
20:20in simple terms? Cuz I know I'm aware a
20:22lot of my audience
20:22>> Well, it's it means I say, okay. So, so
20:25I have dysregulated cell growth. That's
20:27ultimately what the problem we're
20:28dealing with.
20:29>> Mhm.
20:29>> We can't control how these cells are
20:31dividing. We're throwing all kinds of
20:33crazy stuff at them. Trying to poison or
20:35radiate, surgically remove them. We're
20:37trying to do everything to stop this
20:38dysregulated cell growth.
20:40>> Mhm.
20:41>> So, when we look at this organelle under
20:43the micro under the electron microscope,
20:45we find these cristae are often missing.
20:47You have what they call ghost
20:48mitochondria. Got the shell, but nothing
20:50inside. Or if they're inside, they're
20:52all deformed. So, we know there's a
20:55foundational principle in biology,
20:56structure determines function. If the
20:59structure is abnormal, the function will
21:01be abnormal. This is known to all
21:03biologists except oncologists. They
21:06don't seem to understand that.
21:07>> What's an
21:07>> oncologist?
21:08>> Those are the people who study cancer.
21:11>> So, what are you then?
21:12>> [laughter]
21:12>> I'm a biologist.
21:14>> You're a biologist.
21:14>> Yeah. I mean, when we know that if the
21:17organelle is damaged, you're not going
21:18to be able to produce energy efficiently
21:20by oxidative phosphorylation. Okay?
21:22>> I think you're a bit further down the
21:23road, Thomas, than a lot of my viewers
21:25are. For me, hearing that there's this
21:27energy engine in my cells that and
21:30there's
21:31trillions of them or billions of them
21:33and they also communicate with each
21:34other and when this becomes
21:37stressed or hurt or damaged because of
21:39lifestyle choices that I make,
21:41energy production and efficiency will
21:43change and that could cause this to die
21:45or malfunction in some way. That is a
21:47For me, I go I've got it.
21:49>> Okay.
21:50>> That's
21:50>> But that's a major step forward.
21:52>> And then how do we build upon that?
21:53>> Yes.
21:54>> Now we build upon that. Okay? So, so
21:56here's the situation.
21:58We've discussed cancer cells, all of
22:01them, that we have ever looked at, have
22:03defects in the number,
22:05structure, and function of that
22:07organelle. Okay? I have looked at I
22:10published that big paper where I spent
22:13over a year of my time going through the
22:16ancient the well, the early electron
22:18microscopy literature. War Warburg
22:20didn't have that opportunity because
22:22that technology was not there for him.
22:25So, he speculated that based on the
22:26biochemistry. But I went back and I
22:28looked at these
22:30electron micrographs of mitochondria in
22:32various cancers and they're all damaged.
22:34There is few of them that risk cristae
22:36are gone. I worked with some of the best
22:38like Aristimendy Murillo
22:41was a world leader in beautiful electron
22:43microscopy of of cancer cells and you
22:45can see and and all the damage under his
22:48magnificently beautiful and one of we
22:50have a couple of papers. But let me tell
22:52you something else, Stephen.
22:54In the cytoplasm, these organelles are
22:56also in contact with other cellular
22:58membranes like the endoplasmic
23:00reticulum. There's a lot of what we call
23:01organelles inside a cell. You have the
23:04nucleus,
23:05you have the mitochondrion,
23:07you you you have lysosomes. There is
23:09intimate contacts between some of the
23:11other membranes, mitochondrial
23:13associated membranes
23:15we see. And they're also abnormal when
23:17you look at them under the electron
23:18microscope.
23:19>> The ones it's talking to abnormal?
23:21>> Yeah, the ones you can see. The the
23:22mitochondria are abnormal and the
23:24membranes that contact them are
23:25abnormal. And that intimate contact
23:28I'll get into the calcium signaling a
23:30little bit later, which controls the
23:31destiny of the cell. Why the cell is
23:33growing out of control? Well, well first
23:35of all, it's fermenting, okay? That
23:37means it's getting energy from sources
23:39other than oxidative phosphorylation.
23:41You can take a cancer cell and and treat
23:43it with cyanide or azide or in absence
23:46of and still living.
23:48It's still growing because it's not
23:49using
23:50>> the oxygen pathway.
23:51>> They're not using the oxygen, falling
23:52back on on on oxygen independent
23:55mechanisms, which are called
23:57fermentation.
23:58>> So, I understand that to be that there's
24:00a malfunction in a mitochondria, which
24:02means that it no longer uses its oxygen
24:04pathway necessarily.
24:05>> sufficiently as it should. There's
24:07always some residual level.
24:08>> And it finds another way to make the
24:09energy, which is how it survives.
24:11>> Yes.
24:11>> And then it stops communicating with the
24:13rest of the cell.
24:14>> Well, it actually communicates with the
24:15nucleus
24:16to open up the floodgates to bring in
24:18the fuels that drive this fermentation
24:20energy.
24:21>> It gets more and more greedy.
24:22>> It has to because you're you're taking a
24:25an organelle that produces energy highly
24:27efficiently, okay? Um like 34 to 36
24:31ATPs.
24:32>> With oxygen.
24:33>> Uh with oxygen. And now you're you're
24:35trying to replace that with fuels that
24:38give you two uh ener two uh moles of
24:40energy.
24:41>> So, it's inefficient.
24:42>> Very. And then and then you get you get
24:45two out of the So, you're getting four.
24:47So, you you you have to take in in order
24:49to make up the efficiency, you must have
24:52a tremendous logistic. You must have
24:54tremendous supply
24:56>> of
24:56>> of the fuels that will give us energy.
24:58>> Which are?
24:59>> Glucose, the sugar.
25:00>> Yeah.
25:01>> And the amino acid glutamine.
25:02>> Okay.
25:03>> Okay. Our bodies are loaded with
25:04glutamine. That's the most abundant
25:06amino acid in our bloodstream. And
25:08evolution provided that for us because
25:10if we stop breathing, we use that fuel
25:12to keep the cells alive. We our gut is
25:15controlled by glutamine. Our immune
25:17system uses glutamine.
25:19>> What is glutamine?
25:20>> It's an amino acid. Okay.
25:21>> Which we make from food.
25:23>> Yeah, which we can make from food
25:24through or they call essential and
25:26non-essential amino acids. Essentials
25:28are from that we must eat. We must have
25:30certain foods that provide these.
25:32Glutamine is considered a non-essential
25:34amino acid.
25:36It's an essential amino acid
25:37biochemically called non-essential
25:39because we can make it from sugar.
25:41But basically, it's the most abundant
25:44amino acid in our body.
25:45>> I think I get it now.
25:47>> Okay. Feed me back. Tell me Let me Let
25:49me test you.
25:50>> There should be a button just down below
25:52here. And if it says subscribe, you're
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25:59do us a favor and hit that button. It
26:01helps to show more than you know. And
26:02according to the algorithm, you're
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26:07so much.
26:08When we fall the mitochondria falls to
26:11that prehistoric pathway where it starts
26:12making energy in a really really
26:14inefficient way without using oxygen in
26:17the same way. It starts relying now on
26:19glucose and glutamine um to produce that
26:22energy, which is a much less efficient
26:24source of energy. So it gets a bit more
26:26greedy and it needs much more to make
26:27the same amount of ATP, which is energy.
26:29>> Mhm.
26:30>> So these a cancer cell can be very very
26:32greedy. It's not responding to oxygen in
26:34the same way. And they they're a bit
26:36more selfish. They start They start sort
26:38of multiplying without thought of the
26:40broader organism.
26:41>> Yes. Yes.
26:43>> So the question I have is
26:45how does this happen?
26:46>> How does this
26:47>> malfunctioning of the mito- What is it
26:48that I've done? You know when I ask
26:50these questions
26:50>> Okay. Well, I Okay.
26:51>> It's because children can get these
26:53cancers right or an a 90-year-old can
26:55get the cancer and it doesn't appear to
26:57me that a 3-year-old
26:59has necessarily made life choices yet
27:02that could
27:02>> But as I said, when you consider forever
27:05chemicals
27:06uh that are in the environment uh things
27:09that we have that we use in our
27:11technologically advanced societies can
27:13get through the placental wall and get
27:16these into the child into these
27:17children's uh organs um you know, you
27:21have to put it together. We usually it's
27:23a a constellation of things because
27:25don't forget I said carcinogens. Some of
27:27these carcinogens are fat soluble. Some
27:29of these carcinogens can get in and
27:31damage those during early stages of
27:33development. People always say, "How do
27:35you explain brain cancer in a in a
27:376-month-old baby?"
27:39Okay, it it what what did he he what
27:41what he he wasn't smoking and drinking
27:43and partying all the time, but but his
27:45the mitochondria in a population of
27:47cells in his brain became damaged. And
27:50that damage then led to this
27:52disregulated cell growth. Because the
27:54organelle controls when cells should
27:56divide and not divide. And then and then
27:59where is the energy coming from? How do
28:01you How do you take a highly
28:02sophisticated piece of an organelle and
28:05making energy so incredibly efficient?
28:08And now we're using energy
28:10so
28:11uh this organelle signals to the nucleus
28:13called mitochondrial stress response
28:15retrograde signaling.
28:17The nucleus acts as a respondent to what
28:20this organelle wants. So, the nucleus
28:22then oncogenes which that you've heard a
28:24lot about they open the floodgates to
28:27bring in the glucose and glutamine
28:29that allow the cell to grow in a
28:31disregulated way.
28:33So
28:34we've as you said, they go back to these
28:36ancient fermentation pathways where
28:37there was no regulation because this
28:39organelle was not part of the problem.
28:40>> So, that's part of this
28:41>> situation.
28:42>> The regulation is
28:43>> So, is there what are the lifestyle
28:44factors that are causing this to
28:46drastically increase in the probability
28:48of this happening.
28:49>> It's not necessarily what the person did
28:51or all cases, it's what the person was
28:54exposed to.
28:55Uh that could have elicited this. That's
28:57the oncogenic paradox. So
29:00uh we have shown
29:02uh that inflammation produces the
29:04cytokines
29:06when you have an inflammatory heat in
29:08inflammation. They
29:10They damage the ability of this
29:12organelle to make energy efficiently.
29:14Chronic inflammation is known to be a
29:17risk factor for cancer. Chronic
29:20inflammation.
29:21Intermittent hypoxia, carcinogens.
29:23>> What's intermittent hypoxia?
29:25>> Uh this like the sleep apnea, that kind
29:26of thing.
29:27>> Oh, okay.
29:27>> Uh uh Warburg had clearly shown that
29:30intermittent hypoxia on cells would
29:32damage the efficiency of oxidative
29:34phosphorylation leading to a
29:35compensatory fermentation. So you have
29:38to compensate cuz let me tell you, if
29:40you don't compensate, you're dead.
29:42The cell The I mean, the cell dies.
29:44>> When we look at the populations around
29:46the world that have the most prevalence
29:47of cancer,
29:49it doesn't appear to be
29:52some of the
29:54countries like Niger, Gambia, Nepal
29:57consistently rank at the very bottom for
29:58cancer cancer incidence.
30:01Conversely, high-income countries like
30:03Australia, New Zealand, and the United
30:04States have the highest rates of cancer.
30:07Why is that?
30:09>> It's because of our um technology.
30:12Uh we are still Paleolithic man.
30:15And uh our biology
30:18has allowed us to store energy
30:21efficiently
30:22uh
30:23because of times of famine. We are now
30:25in a new environment where we have
30:27massive amounts of highly processed
30:28carbohydrates, inactivity, emotional
30:31stress. We have poor sleep habits. You
30:34You pile all those together with
30:37availab- uh the exposure to carcinogens
30:40and whatever, and you chronically damage
30:42this organelle.
30:44And uh uh in [clears throat] some
30:45organs,
30:46you can get breast cancer if it's a
30:48lung, if it's a whatever it is, that
30:50organelle becomes chronically damaged in
30:53some populations of cells in a
30:55particular
30:56in a particular organ.
30:58And and you can elicit dysregulated cell
31:00growth as the result of that.
31:02You know, what I find
31:04is and and that in the paper that we
31:06have with the chart,
31:08if you can keep your mitochondria
31:10healthy, cuz don't forget Paleolithic
31:12man, our ancestors from 500,000 years
31:15ago,
31:16or modern men, like you said in these
31:18countries, living according to
31:20traditional ways with minimal
31:23interference from modern diet and
31:25lifestyle issues, have lower amount of
31:27cancer in general. And this is what
31:29Albert Schweitzer found, the famous
31:32humanitarian physician. He was
31:34specifically looking for cancer in
31:35African tribes, and he said,
31:37"Remarkably, it's extremely low." What
31:39What are these guys doing where Western
31:42society has a lot has a lot of cancer
31:44and these Africans have living living
31:46according to the traditional ways. So,
31:48they have a lot of exercise, they're
31:49eating all organic foods,
31:51they're not under the same kind of
31:52stress or exposure to chemicals that
31:55modern societies have, and you find out
31:57you have very low cancer. Like for
31:59example, dogs are all evolved from the
32:01wolf. Wolves in the wild rarely have
32:05cancer. The domestic dog, cancer is the
32:07number one killer of the domestic dog.
32:09What is the dog doing that the wolf? The
32:11wolf is out running around eating
32:12natural foods. The dog The dog is in an
32:14apartment somewhere, gets a dog walker
32:17once a day, right? And the next thing
32:19the dog dog is obese and full of cancer.
32:21So, it all it all comes down to what
32:24what you do to maintain the health and
32:26vitality of the mitochondria that reduce
32:28the risk,
32:30and that's what this chart I'll show you
32:31has. What reduce the risk of damaging
32:34this chronically, okay? So, that can
32:37explain in large part why modern
32:39societies are struggling with chronic
32:42diseases, not only cancer, we have type
32:442 diabetes, we have obesity, we have
32:46high blood pressure, we have a whole
32:48even neuropsychiatric problems. If you
32:51can protect and keep this organelle
32:53healthy, you reduce risk. Now, people
32:55say, "Well, cancer has to be genetic
32:58because we have inherited genes that put
33:01us at higher risk like the BRCA1 for
33:03breast cancer and the Li-Fraumeni for a
33:05variety of other cancers." Our paper in
33:08this pile done by Bob Kaplan,
33:10uh he went through uh and looked at all
33:13the genetic risk factors.
33:14>> Which paper is it?
33:15>> Um it's one of the ones published in
33:17oncology.
33:18But, none of these mutations are 100%
33:21penetrant, meaning that they're
33:22secondary risk factors. A primary risk
33:25factor would be every time that mutation
33:27is there, 100% of the people. Cuz I work
33:29in Tay-Sachs disease, I work in inborn
33:31errors of metabolism. Those mutations
33:33are 100% responsible for that condition.
33:36There's no gene mutation that's 100%
33:38penetrant. You have that gene, you're
33:39going to 100% get cancer. Uh most of
33:41them are are uh um
33:43are what they call incompletely
33:45penetrant.
33:45>> So, what does that tell us about the
33:46nature of
33:47>> Well, it tell And then we went back But,
33:48Bob did is he went back and he looked at
33:51what every one of those gene mutations
33:54in some way
33:55disturbs the efficiency of oxidative
33:57phosphorylation in that organelle.
34:00>> In the mitochondria?
34:00>> In the mitochondria. We we looked at We
34:02have all the evidence, all the the risk
34:04factors.
34:05>> All the genetic Just
34:06>> the the Just the front page there. I
34:08wasn't going to show you the hard data,
34:09but you guys
34:10>> [laughter]
34:11>> So, anyway, the all of them damage this
34:13the efficiency of energy through through
34:15through this organelle. So, that's like
34:18carcinogens, that's like um
34:21viral infections. The viruses that that
34:24hepatoma and papilloma, they they their
34:26their products will go in here and
34:28damage it, or they will replicate inside
34:30this organelle, screwing up the
34:31efficiency, causing a compensatory
34:34fermentation, causing the disregulated
34:37cell growth through abnormal calcium
34:38signaling, causing cells to no longer
34:41be responsive to their neighbors. Is
34:44that clear? If I can make you understand
34:46this, we can make everybody understand
34:47this.
34:48>> Yeah, so the the reason I spent a lot of
34:50time asking why and asking for
34:52clarification is because when I do the
34:54show, I then go out into the real world
34:56and I meet the people that listen.
34:57>> Yeah.
34:57>> And one of the groups of people that
34:59listens are young offenders. And when I
35:01went and visited them, I pointed at the
35:03episodes that I thought would help them.
35:04And a young one of the young offenders
35:06said to me, "I can't listen to that
35:07episode cuz you the words you used were
35:08too big."
35:09And I remember thinking to myself
35:11>> Okay, I then I get that all the time,
35:12but guess what? Now we have AI.
35:14And you can take
35:16the statements and put it into AI, right
35:19on the and they'll it'll it'll it'll
35:22dumb it down for you.
35:23>> Mhm.
35:23>> So so that's a tool that we previously
35:26did not have.
35:27>> Mhm.
35:27>> So so I use that all the time. I said,
35:30"When you hear me speak like this, don't
35:31think I'm arrogant. Don't think I'm just
35:33I I These are the terms that we use when
35:35you're part of the academy."
35:36>> Yeah.
35:37>> Okay, but we can take those terms now
35:39and AI can do a wonderful job in in in
35:41synthesizing. Oh, yeah, I know what he's
35:43talking about now. But without that tool
35:46then it becomes like you said, "Well, I
35:47can't understand anything."
35:48>> Mhm.
35:49I've got 60 seconds and I'm going to
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36:50If you know me and if you've listened to
36:51this podcast before, you'll know how
36:53obsessed I am with sleep. I've been on a
36:55bit of a journey with sleep. I see it as
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37:42Big opportunity. I'm not kidding. Give
37:44it a try.
37:45I really want to just make sure I tick
37:47off the box of um
37:49cause factors. So, you mentioned stress.
37:52>> Mhm.
37:53>> You mentioned sleep.
37:54>> Mhm.
37:55>> I currently don't have cancer. That's
37:56why I'm on my good forbid.
37:58Um but I but I want to do everything I
38:00can to prevent the probability. And I
38:02from what I've understood, that means
38:03protecting my mitochondrial function
38:06>> Yes.
38:06>> by living a lifestyle where I'm not
38:08creating this sort of like crazy
38:09oxidative stress on the mitochondria.
38:11>> Right.
38:12>> So, what give me a prescription of how I
38:14should live my life to keep my
38:15mitochondria healthy.
38:16>> Well, that's why we developed the
38:18glucose ketone index calculator, the
38:20first biomarker tool that can allow
38:22people to know the level of health in
38:24their mitochondria. Because
38:26um when you shift from carbohydrate fuel
38:30to lip- lipid fuel
38:31>> What's lipid fuel?
38:32>> Fat.
38:34>> So, ketones?
38:34>> Ketones are a water-soluble breakdown
38:37product of fatty acids.
38:39>> [clears throat]
38:39>> Okay? So, we store adipose tissue.
38:42We store fat.
38:43>> Which is the belly fat?
38:44>> Uh
38:45all over. We have fat in our
38:47>> On the outside.
38:47>> Yeah. So, on the outside. That was there
38:50because as a species we had to survive
38:54in the most harsh environments.
38:56And we were um food was not always
38:58there. So, we had to survive all kinds
39:01of famine, all kinds of absence of food.
39:04Our bodies are so our
39:06it's a machine that was honed over
39:08millions of years to be super efficient.
39:11So, glucose is gold. Sugar. Okay?
39:16You either burn it or you can store it
39:17as fat.
39:19Okay? That's that's the key. But when
39:21you have you're not bringing in sugar,
39:23that stored fat now moves into the
39:25bloodstream, goes to the liver. It's
39:27like taking a branch and putting it in a
39:29chopper.
39:31And you outcome these little soluble
39:32ketone bodies. They're breakdown
39:34products of long-chain fatty acids. They
39:37can replace sugar for the brain, for the
39:39muscles, for most other cells in the
39:41body except erythrocytes. But they can
39:44replace
39:46they can replace the energy of glucose.
39:48Okay?
39:49So,
39:50uh and that's how we evolved. But we're
39:52now in an environment where we have
39:54massive amounts of highly processed
39:56carbohydrates.
39:57And we
39:59we don't want to pee them out unless you
40:00have diabetes or something. So, we store
40:02them as fat. So, we have an obesity
40:04epidemic as the result of our
40:06evolutionary ability to store energy
40:08which kept us alive as a species.
40:10Because if we were unable to store the
40:12fat in 500,000, we would have all been
40:15extinct. You and I had conversation
40:16would never exist. We would never have
40:18existed as a species, except for our
40:20ability to store energy.
40:22And we burn energy efficiently in these
40:23organelles. So, this is all a very
40:26highly efficient machine.
40:28So, when we lose that ability,
40:30when we have so much energy in the
40:32environment, stress, no exercise, all
40:34this, we can store more and more fat. We
40:37produce an
40:38an environment that's very damaging to
40:41this organelle.
40:41>> Well, say that again. So, how does
40:42stress impact that?
40:44>> Stress elevates corticosteroids. When
40:46you're under stress, you get into a
40:47fight, get into an argument, or you're
40:49stressed out by business deal going bad,
40:51whatever. Corticosteroids
40:55elevate elevate blood sugar,
40:56contributing to
40:58systemic inflammation. It's okay for
41:01short period of time to be pissed off at
41:03something, but it's the chronic stress,
41:05the chronic like looking at the cell
41:07phone, doom scrolling, all this kind of
41:08crazy stuff, while you're eating the big
41:10Twinkie. Doom scrolling, eating
41:11Twinkies, not moving. All of this
41:13creates
41:15stress on this organelle in some
41:17population of cells.
41:19>> It makes it work harder.
41:20>> It's damaging because you produce
41:22reactive species that damage the
41:24efficiency of this organelle to produce
41:26energy effectively.
41:28And that either will kill the cell
41:31gradually if it can't compen- use
41:33compensatory fermentation, or pre-
41:35predispose you to cancer. So, either
41:38way, it's unhealthy. So, we have chronic
41:41disease. Cancer is the number one big
41:42dog in the chronic disease world.
41:44>> I mean, it's the one that
41:45>> people fear the most.
41:47Type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease,
41:50you know, dementia.
41:52All of these are part of damage to this
41:54organelle in one way or another.
41:56And like I say said, for Parkinson's
41:58disease, when that organelle gets
42:00damaged, the cells of the substantia
42:02die. They are incapable of
42:04compensating with fermentation, so they
42:06up and die.
42:08Cancer is very rare in neurons of the
42:09brain. Neurons, the glial cells of the
42:12brain form these brain tumors mostly.
42:14But, neurons [clears throat] can't
42:16compensate with fermentation, so they
42:17die. So, you you either get compen-
42:20compensatory ancient fermentation
42:22leading to disregulated cell growth,
42:23which we call cancer, or we get cell
42:25death leading to chronic diseases.
42:27>> What about sleep then? What's going on
42:29with sleep that's causing
42:29>> Sleep is a way we can restore the energy
42:31efficiency of the mitochondria.
42:33>> If we're well slept.
42:34>> If we have good sleep, yeah. You know,
42:36everybody feels good when you have a
42:37good night's sleep. Your body feels
42:38rejuvenated because you're not you're
42:40not stressing out. You're reducing the
42:43ability of this organelle to manage the
42:46the the the metabolic environment. Uh if
42:49you're up all night and you're and
42:50you're like stressed out and you're
42:52never giving this organelle in a
42:54particular cell in a particular part of
42:56the organ of the body,
42:58you know, you you get neuropsychiatric
43:00problems, you can get digestive
43:02problems, you can get cancer, you can
43:04get type 2 diabetes. You have a whole
43:06and we put it in the paper there all the
43:08different stress all the different
43:09things that can chronically uh or
43:12acutely damage oxidative
43:13phosphorylation.
43:14>> So, sleep basically gives the
43:16mitochondria a little bit of a break.
43:17>> Yes. It's a it's a it gives your whole
43:19body a break. Let's be honest. So, so,
43:22but you you pile those things on
43:24together.
43:25Lack of exercise Our ancestors, what do
43:27you think our ancestors You know how
43:28hard it is to run down and kill a big
43:29buffalo or a a woolly mammoth? I mean,
43:32you're you're exhausted after doing
43:33something. As a matter of fact, you
43:35chase these animals uh you separate and
43:38this is another thing was really
43:39interesting came out Israel uh I think
43:40it was last year. They looked at the
43:42cavemen what they were eating.
43:44They were eating the the strongest
43:45members of the herd
43:47uh leading to the indirect extinction of
43:49these animals. They found out that if
43:51you can eat the strongest member of the
43:54herd, you'll get the vitality of that
43:57uh of that or or buffalo or elephant or
43:59whatever the hell they were eating
44:01because they knew the marrow and the and
44:03the the physiology of that of that
44:06organism at that point in its life could
44:08provide you with the strength that that
44:10had. Now, when you eat the strongest
44:12members of the herd because you want to
44:14be tough, you're putting the old and the
44:16young at vulnerable to predators,
44:19leading to the extinction. And this is
44:21what a big paper came out of out of
44:23Israel. They looked at these cavemen
44:25what they were eating like 500,000 years
44:26ago whatever they were doing. So, humans
44:28indirectly caused extinction of other
44:30species
44:31in part in not all in part because they
44:33were eating the toughest guys in the
44:34herd. So, because they felt that if I
44:37eat those guys, I'm going to be strong,
44:38too. And in a way they're right, but all
44:41of it has to do with the energy
44:42efficiency of your muscles, your brain,
44:45your ability to be resilient,
44:48endurance.
44:49I'm telling you these guys were
44:51chiseled. They They weren't dying from
44:54type 2 diabetes, cancer,
44:57right? Dementia. They were dying from
44:58infections and injuries and child
45:01mortality
45:02were mostly killing our Paleolithic
45:04ancestors.
45:05But when you bring your body back into a
45:07low glucose ketone, you're actually
45:08going back like you were and this is why
45:10we developed the glucose ketone index.
45:13>> What is in that envelope in front of
45:14you?
45:14>> Well, this is it's a paper that's under
45:17embargo because they they think it's
45:18going to be world thinks it's going to
45:20be very important. And and it is.
45:24So, and what it is this is a
45:28um
45:29a way to keep that organelle healthy.
45:31So, this is a way
45:33to manage
45:35uh
45:36um energy efficiency in the body.
45:37>> And this hasn't been released yet?
45:39>> It hasn't been released. Okay, it's
45:40coming out. It's a It's going to be a
45:42lead article in the Frontiers in
45:44Science.
45:45And not only that, we the paper
45:47the paper was written
45:49uh
45:50for the scientists
45:52and then the journal decided to make a
45:54second copy for they call young minds.
45:57So, letting kids that are like 8 to 12
45:59or 14 years old synthesize it down and
46:03and and one of my colleagues said that's
46:05probably what most people will be
46:06reading.
46:08Cuz they don't want to know about the
46:09bioenergetics that actually goes on
46:11inside this organelle to explain why
46:13this chart means something.
46:15>> And you've been working on this for some
46:16time?
46:17>> Well, I I I built the GKI. So, let me
46:19tell you the story. There was a woman uh
46:21an American woman, a lawyer, Trudy
46:23DuPont, who uh developed um
46:26uh a kind of a brainstem tumor. And
46:29after I wrote my book that book there,
46:31that's my only book. Anyway, Trudy
46:34Trudy wanted to use this metabolic
46:36therapy. She stayed alive much longer,
46:38over 10 years with this We kept the She
46:40eventually passed away, unfortunately.
46:42But so I was measuring cuz we knew that
46:46the tumor cells needed sugar to grow.
46:48War- Otto Warburg showed that and many
46:50other people showed that. And they can't
46:52burn ketones because because the fatty
46:55you need a very efficient mitochondria
46:59to burn ketones for energy.
47:01Our normal cells can burn ketones for
47:03energy, and that gives us tremendous
47:06uh we can actually breathe lower oxygen,
47:09more energy if you have efficient if you
47:11can burn ketones efficiently in this
47:13organelle. But if the organelle is
47:15damaged, they can't use the ketones.
47:16They can't burn fatty acids or ketones,
47:18which stores lipid droplets. It's one of
47:20these big papers here. These
47:23Uh Stephen, you can't believe how people
47:25misinterpret information. They see
47:27droplets of fatty acids in the
47:28cytoplasm, say, "You see the cancer cell
47:30needs all that fatty acid." No, they
47:31can't. It's there to protect them. If
47:33they try to burn it, they blow this up
47:34and die. So, there is a storage of fat.
47:36They can't burn fatty acids or ketone
47:38bodies. So, I knew cancer needed
47:40glucose, and I knew cancer couldn't burn
47:42fatty acids or ketones because this
47:44organelle is is broken.
47:47So, I'm measuring glucose and ketones
47:50independently in Trudy. She's doing the
47:53finger prick thing, sending me the
47:55information back, and saying, "Oh,
47:58here's my glucose. Here's my ketones."
48:00>> Okay, so I have a a ketone glucose
48:02reader in front of me. If I put my blood
48:05on this strip, it tells me my glucose
48:07levels. If I put my blood on this strip,
48:09it tells me my ketone levels.
48:10>> Right. Right. But if you if you look at
48:12them independently,
48:14glucose is very volatile, very variable.
48:17And this is why I developed the
48:18glucose-ketone ratio. Because Trudy
48:22had a parking spot that was for
48:24handicapped because she had a cane. Her
48:26brainstem glioma was preventing her from
48:29walking
48:30as effectively as normal people. So she
48:32somebody took her parking spot.
48:35She was So she ran upstairs
48:38and took her blood sugar and it was 186
48:41mg per deciliter. It was very, very
48:43high.
48:44So and I know she was on a keto-ketotic
48:46diet. Uh and and she emails me and says,
48:49"I'm going to die. My cancer's going to
48:50grow faster. What's going on?" She says,
48:52"My blood sugar is like 186 and you know
48:54it's supposed to be You told me it was
48:56supposed to be 60 or you know, 50, 65 or
48:58in that zone." She says, "So I said,
49:00"What's your ketone level?" "Oh, it's
49:01still, you know, like you just had 0.4
49:03millimolar or I think it was 0.9
49:05millimolar."
49:07I said, "Well, that didn't change,
49:08right?" "No, just the sugar changed."
49:10So I said to the students that were
49:12working with Josh Feinbaum,
49:13I said, "Josh, this this trying to
49:15measure these two independently of those
49:17is a You can't This is hard to
49:18figure out." So what we decided to do in
49:21millimolar cuz glucose comes out in
49:22milligram per deciliter,
49:24whereas ketones come out in millimolar.
49:26So we had to convert glucose to
49:27millimolar and divide it by the ketone
49:29in millimolar and then you get a number
49:32that's not all over the world. It's very
49:35stable.
49:36So So we were able to because of Trudy,
49:39that one cancer patient, we developed
49:41the ratio of of this Then later on,
49:45we realized that this ratio is a
49:47statement of how healthy your
49:49mitochondria you are. So when you when
49:52you have these low ratio, you're in
49:53Paleolithic man. You're back in the zone
49:56where we didn't have chronic diseases
49:58because we didn't have damage to the
50:00organelle that would cause those
50:01diseases. So, Paleolithic man, think
50:03where they getting their
50:05pastries? Where where they getting their
50:07cakes and sweets and all this other kind
50:08of They didn't have it. They weren't
50:10there because of of choice, they were
50:12there because of circumstance. So, our
50:14new and we learn Paleolithic man was
50:18always in some sort of a state of some
50:20ketosis because they wouldn't have food
50:22for periods. They were very active in
50:24their exercise. They had they didn't
50:26have chronic diseases, but they had
50:27other kinds of diseases. So,
50:29so then um my my my my student um
50:33Derek Lee, myself, and Christos
50:36Chanopoulos, we started to make a ratio
50:38chart. Now, these are the numbers that
50:40you get when you divide your sugar by
50:42your ketones.
50:43>> Okay, so my sugar by my ketones. So, if
50:45I did my glucose measure now on this
50:47little reader here.
50:47>> let's see what your GKI is.
50:49>> Oh, you want me to do it? Okay.
50:50>> Okay, what you had a glucose you you had
50:52a ketone of 0.4 millimolar.
50:54>> Yeah.
50:54>> Okay, what was your sugar?
50:56>> I have
50:56>> So, we can divide we can do the divi-
50:58division right now and tell you what you
50:59have.
51:00>> You can get these little uh ketone
51:02>> Oh, yeah, it's a KetoMojo. And you can
51:03also get them now for for uh
51:06Wow, this guy is skilled at doing this.
51:08>> I travel with one of these, [laughter]
51:10believe it or not.
51:11>> Yeah.
51:11>> So, I I have one all the time.
51:13>> Wow.
51:14>> 90.
51:15>> 90? Okay, so you have to you have to
51:18divide you have to divide You're not
51:19getting the Doesn't this give you the
51:20push button and give you the GKI right
51:22away cuz the new ones have it?
51:24So, you have to divide 90 by 18 and you
51:27get a number.
51:28>> Uh five.
51:29>> Five. So, divide five by 0.4.
51:32>> 12.5.
51:33>> Okay, so here you are.
51:3612.5, you're down here in the in the in
51:39the prevention zone.
51:40>> Uh nice.
51:41>> so so you This is where Paleolithic man
51:45mostly lived.
51:46Paleolithic man lived in the yellow
51:49green zones because they didn't have
51:51access to all of the things that would
51:53drive up your
51:54blood sugar and keep your key when your
51:57blood sugar goes through the roof your
51:58ketones are really low because insulin
52:00is now
52:01driving it up. So So that's good. Um 12,
52:04huh?
52:05>> Mhm.
52:05>> So I I did the I did the carnivore diet
52:08for a week
52:08>> Mhm.
52:09>> uh eating big ribeyes. You like ribeye
52:11steak?
52:12>> Yes, of course.
52:13>> [laughter]
52:15>> Okay. Ribeyes, bacon and eggs, lamb I I
52:18So I did it for a week. And um
52:21I was able to get down to 10.
52:23>> Okay.
52:24>> Okay. And I could get lower but I was
52:25loving the ribeye so much I ate too much
52:27of it, right? You have to be have
52:28[laughter] some level of discipline.
52:30>> Yeah.
52:30>> So [clears throat] uh So
52:32So uh but people people This is what we
52:34call the zone of prevention. It's very
52:36hard to get cancer or chronic diseases
52:39when you're in these zones because
52:40you're keeping this organelle quite
52:42healthy.
52:42>> When you live in these zones
52:44consistently
52:45>> You You don't have to live consistently
52:47because humans we we evolved as a
52:49scavenger species. We would engorge
52:51ourselves because we knew it wasn't
52:52happening every day.
52:54Modern man is liv- is living in the
52:57feast every single day. And that's why
52:59we're we're have an out-
53:01all the chronic diseases. This is the
53:04red zone
53:05is the zone of risk for chronic diseases
53:08and cancer.
53:09And when you look at the obesity
53:11epidemic, you look at all these things,
53:13these guys are uh
53:14And it's it's like we can visit the red
53:16zone. We don't want to live in the red
53:18zone.
53:19>> So if I was to visit the red zone, it
53:22would look like meeting
53:24a high carbohydrate diet, lots of sugar
53:26>> Yeah. No exercise.
53:29>> Yeah. And basically modern man.
53:31>> And also eating five meals a day, like
53:33snacking all the time.
53:34>> Yeah. Oh, then you'd be You know, we
53:36have these documented cases. We have
53:38them up to 500.
53:40>> You can get You're joking.
53:40>> Oh, yeah. GKIs are 500. You have people
53:43with you know blood sugars about 4 500
53:46mg per deciliter. I mean you could do
53:47the and zero ketones. I mean you you do
53:50the you do the math. It's it's
53:52unbelievable.
53:52>> You're basically saying I want to keep
53:53my my blood glucose levels
53:55>> And you want to you want to have some
53:56level of ketones.
53:58>> And high and my ketone levels somewhat
53:59as high as I can.
54:00>> Well, it's you don't want to go because
54:02people that have the physicians
54:03listening they go oh he's going to go
54:04into ketoacidosis.
54:06People give me a break. Ketoacidosis is
54:08like when you have ketone levels of 15
54:11to 20 millimolar. Are you kidding me?
54:13What is your 0.4? That's called
54:15nutritional ketosis. That's how we
54:17evolved. When you have type 1 diabetes
54:19where you can't control sugar or or or
54:23insulin, you have no insulin
54:24unresponsive. You're going to get high
54:26levels of sugar and ketones. This is
54:28this is a pathological condition.
54:30Most of type 2 diabetes, these are all
54:33pathologies based on damaging oxidative
54:35phosphorylation. So, what this chart
54:38does
54:39is for the first time and we put it
54:41together because we did all the and the
54:42paper discusses the bioenergetics. What
54:45we're finding in cancer
54:47is that if you can get into the green
54:49zones where your blood sugar is low and
54:51your ketones are elevated, you hammer
54:54the hell out of these tumor cells
54:56because they they they you're taking
54:58away one of their two primary fuels
55:02driving disregulated cell growth, okay?
55:05And as the and as the and as the ketones
55:07go up, the rest of your cells in the
55:10body are getting super healthy.
55:13The tumor cells can't tap into the value
55:16of a ketone because the organelle needed
55:19in the tumor cell to do that is
55:21corrupted structurally and functionally.
55:25Is am I clear about that?
55:27>> Yes.
55:27>> Okay. So, ketones will make you healthy,
55:30the normal cells of your body, but
55:32cannot be used to help the cancer cell
55:35because you need a good structural
55:36functional organelle to burn them.
55:39So, they become marginalized. And if the
55:41ketones go up, they're actually toxic to
55:43that to that cell to some extent. So,
55:46but they're still alive.
55:48Uh the cancer cells are now
55:51incapacitated.
55:52They're uh we we showed you get rid of
55:54the abnormal inflammation. You get rid
55:56of the angiogen the abnormal blood
55:57vessels. You're taking an angry tumor
56:00and making it much less angry, much less
56:03inflamed, uh
56:05uh more indolent uh kind of a tumor, but
56:07it's still there. It's not because the
56:10other fuel
56:11that's keeping this cancer cell going is
56:13the glutamine. Okay? So,
56:16now when you have the patient in this
56:18green zone, this is for management now.
56:21Steven, this is Prevention is
56:24is never having to deal with what I'm
56:25talking about. If you're living in the
56:27yellow zone,
56:28the probability of getting cancer or
56:30chronic diseases is already reduced.
56:34Okay?
56:35But now you have some poor guy out
56:37there. He's living in the red zone his
56:38whole life. He wants to manage the
56:39cancer that he has. He He has to get
56:41down in the green zone and try to stay
56:43there as long as he can.
56:45But the cancer will still grow because
56:46it has access to glutamine.
56:48Okay? And glutamine is always Here's the
56:50bloodstream. Look at Look at You have
56:52this much blood. Cancer needs that so
56:54you always have a surfeit of glutamine.
56:57So, you have to come in now with drugs.
56:59And the drugs like repurposed drugs to
57:02target the the glutaminolysis.
57:04This one here, this BMC big paper here.
57:07>> Mhm.
57:08>> Okay. This paper in the new one we have
57:10with the ketogenic for the I I childhood
57:13um high-grade glioma for kids. So, once
57:16once you get down here, you come in with
57:19drugs that target glutamine. I've looked
57:22at one and that's mebendazole. Okay? How
57:24did I come to that realization? People
57:26knew that mebendazole had some
57:27therapeutic benefit about cancer, but
57:30they don't believe until they show the
57:31mechanism. That paper shows the
57:32mechanism. It targets glucose and
57:34glutamine. Now this one targets glucose
57:36and glutamine, the two fuels driving the
57:39disregulated growth of the tumor. Okay.
57:42So, here's the here's the mitochondria.
57:45So, it's getting the glucose in the
57:47cytoplasm from the sugar
57:49uh and making and it's fermenting that
57:51and then also the the amino acid
57:53glutamine comes in. You have to block
57:56the glycolysis and the gluco- these two
57:58pathways, you have to restrict
58:00availability of glucose and glutamine
58:02together at the same time.
58:04>> Yeah.
58:04>> I speak only about things that I have
58:06tested in my lab and published papers on
58:09like this. So, you have to read the
58:11cancer field doesn't understand that the
58:14cancer can't grow without glucose and
58:17glutamine
58:18and can't switch to fatty acids or
58:20ketone bodies.
58:21>> That's still not going to kill the
58:22cancer though, is it? It's just going to
58:23>> Yeah, we don't ever use the term cure
58:25because some of these tumors now let me
58:26tell you we we have a
58:28people like Pablo Kelly from Devon,
58:30England. He had the glioblastoma. Uh he
58:34didn't take any radiation or chemo. He
58:35just did metabolic therapy. He lived for
58:3710 years. He was diagnosed with an
58:39inoperable glioblastoma.
58:41They wanted to irradiate and poison him
58:43with the drugs. He said no, he was one
58:45of these naturalistic kind of guys. And
58:48um
58:49he he lived for 10 years
58:51and the tumor became operable. He had
58:53four debulking surgeries on an
58:55originally described inoperable cancer.
58:58Cut out four times because once we put
59:00the metabolic therapy, the circle the
59:02demarcation of the tumor well there are
59:03there are surgeons who say I think I can
59:05get this out. But he never never got rid
59:07he lived with it for 10 years, had a
59:08couple of kids. He died from a cerebral
59:10hemorrhage on the last debulking
59:12surgery. He never died from the tumor.
59:13>> But you're saying you're saying that the
59:15two work together in in tandem. You're
59:17saying that the chemotherapy works in
59:19>> The Now that's where that's another
59:21thing. So, what we do
59:23um now this is very interesting. So,
59:25what if you put the patient in
59:27nutritional ketosis, the the ketogenic
59:31state of nutritional ketosis facilitates
59:34the delivery of drugs to the tumor cell.
59:37It actually makes You can use lower
59:39doses of drugs
59:41and you and and you and and you get
59:43bigger effect. The therapeutic benefit
59:45increases with lower dosing.
59:47>> So, you want to be in ketosis when you
59:48do these chemotherapy radiation therapy?
59:50>> and then you use much lower doses. This
59:52is what we're doing in Istanbul clinic.
59:54We're taking pancreatic cancers. These
59:56guys living four and five years. What
59:58are we doing and advanced breast cancer
1:00:00and all these terminal cancers? We put
1:00:02them into some level of ketosis and then
1:00:05you come in with the standard drugs
1:00:07cisplatin, carboplatin, whatever you
1:00:09want to do, but you cut the dosages down
1:00:11big time.
1:00:12And then they have tremendous and you
1:00:14put it the keep the the uh and this is
1:00:16what the title of the paper is.
1:00:18Ketogenic diet
1:00:20uh as a metabolic vehicle
1:00:24uh for enhancing therapeutic efficacy.
1:00:27>> The current body of research suggests
1:00:29that being in a state of ketosis can act
1:00:30as a helper therapy enhancing the cancer
1:00:33killing effects of chemotherapy while
1:00:34simultaneously protecting healthy cells.
1:00:36>> Yeah. Yeah, right. Right.
1:00:38>> Progressive oncologists are currently
1:00:40using ketogenic diets alongside standard
1:00:42chemo to maximize its efficacy.
1:00:45>> That's right. That's what we're doing in
1:00:46Istanbul.
1:00:49And and and also in in in in Greece,
1:00:52we're doing we're doing those same
1:00:53things. So, you you can use this.
1:00:55>> When you enter a fasted ketogenic state,
1:00:57your healthy cells essentially go into
1:00:59bunker mode. They slow their division,
1:01:01conserve energy, and build up their
1:01:02defenses. Cancer cells, however, do not
1:01:04have this evolutionary off switch. They
1:01:06continue trying to rapidly divide. When
1:01:08the toxic chemotherapy hits, your
1:01:10shielded healthy cells survive it it
1:01:12much better
1:01:13while the exposed rapidly dividing
1:01:15cancer cells take the full hit.
1:01:18>> Yeah.
1:01:18>> Uh okay.
1:01:19>> Yeah.
1:01:19>> Interesting.
1:01:20>> Yeah. In other words, you make with the
1:01:21tools you have work better.
1:01:23The problem in the field of cancer today
1:01:26is they're not using the tools in the
1:01:28correct way. Now, let me give you
1:01:29another example.
1:01:31If you take immunotherapies, you hear
1:01:32about these things.
1:01:34Chimeric antigen T receptor PDL PD1 PDL1
1:01:38inhibitors, they're called precision
1:01:40medicines, right? So, look at they're
1:01:42designed
1:01:44to attack a molecule on the surface or
1:01:47stop that cell from
1:01:50being resistant.
1:01:51If you would try to attack and what they
1:01:53do often times they come at after you
1:01:55failed chemo and radiation, they then
1:01:57come at you with an immunotherapy. The
1:01:59metabolic pressure shrinks down your
1:02:01tumor, makes it very indolent,
1:02:03non-aggressive and the rest of your body
1:02:05is healthy, you're not going bald,
1:02:06you're not bleeding gums, your
1:02:08microbiome isn't blown to hell. So, and
1:02:10then you can come in with low-dose
1:02:12chemo, immunotherapy because whatever's
1:02:14left in that remaining residual mass,
1:02:17they may all have something in common
1:02:19for having survived all this, right? So,
1:02:22now you can come in with a precision
1:02:23medicine and possibly resolution.
1:02:26>> I thought this was fascinating. It says
1:02:27chemotherapy creates massive oxidative
1:02:29stress, i.e. damage inside the tumor. To
1:02:31repair the damage and survive, the
1:02:33cancer cell requires massive amounts of
1:02:34glucose. So, if the patient is in
1:02:36ketosis, the tumor's glucose supply is
1:02:39essentially cut off. It can't the cancer
1:02:41cell can't repair the DNA damage caused
1:02:43by your chemo leading to faster tumor
1:02:45death.
1:02:46Um
1:02:47yeah, interesting.
1:02:48>> Well, don't forget also listen to this.
1:02:51And there's another thing, people go in.
1:02:53What protects the tumor cell from chemo
1:02:55and radiation is the waste products of
1:02:58fermentation. The lactic acid and the
1:03:00succinic acid that are dumped out of
1:03:02this raging beast
1:03:05prevent these other therapies from
1:03:06working.
1:03:07So, if you want your therapy to work,
1:03:09you got to target those two fuels
1:03:12together at the same time.
1:03:14And when you do that, now this cell the
1:03:16shield is off. These things are super
1:03:18vulnerable to even low doses of chemo
1:03:20and radiation. And the immunotherapies,
1:03:23look at if you have an immunotherapy,
1:03:26you try to attack the beast when it's at
1:03:27its strongest, uh you're not going to
1:03:29win. And this is what happens, you get
1:03:31only partial response. They in the field
1:03:33of cancer today, they think living an
1:03:35extra 6 months is a major breakthrough.
1:03:37We're talking about living an extra 5
1:03:39and 6 years. This is what's really
1:03:41important.
1:03:41>> I just um I was reading some research to
1:03:43figure out if
1:03:45oncologists, so cancer doctors, are
1:03:48currently recommending the ketogenic
1:03:49diet. And it says the vast majority of
1:03:51mainstream oncologists do not recommend
1:03:53the ketogenic diet to the to their newly
1:03:55diagnosed patients.
1:03:57Um in fact, if a patient brings it up,
1:03:58many doctors will actively advise
1:04:00against it. And the reasons for that,
1:04:03number one is the fear of
1:04:05cachexia?
1:04:06>> Cachexia.
1:04:07>> Yeah.
1:04:07>> Cachexia. Cancer cachexia is a severe
1:04:09wasting syndrome where patients rapidly
1:04:11lose muscle and fat. It is a massive
1:04:13problem and a leading cause of mortality
1:04:14in cancer patients because the ketogenic
1:04:16diet suppresses appetite and often leads
1:04:18to weight loss. Oncologists are
1:04:20terrified that a strict keto diet will
1:04:22accelerate cachexia and weaken the
1:04:24patient.
1:04:25>> Well, that's because they they have not
1:04:27heard what I just said with respect to
1:04:29the biology and biochemistry. Okay.
1:04:31Cachexia,
1:04:33there's two ways you can lose in cancer
1:04:34patients. Cachexia is the ability of the
1:04:36tumor cell to mobilize energy out of the
1:04:39muscles. It's taking the glutamine out
1:04:41of your muscles and feeding This is one
1:04:43of the two fuels that's driving the
1:04:45beast is glutamine. Where are they
1:04:47getting the glutamine from? They're
1:04:48getting the glutamine not only from the
1:04:50bloodstream, but they dissolve your
1:04:51muscles as a
1:04:53as part of that, part of that process.
1:04:56So, when you put a patient in
1:04:58nutritional ketosis,
1:05:00the weight loss is therapeutic weight
1:05:02loss. Cachexia is pathological weight
1:05:05loss. Now, the other way you can lose
1:05:06weight, you could take a high dose of
1:05:08chemotherapy.
1:05:10>> I travel all the time. So, I made a rule
1:05:12in my life that I'll only travel with a
1:05:14cabin bag. The problem with this is not
1:05:16much space, and here's the solution. It
1:05:18is called an Ekster 1% travel pack, and
1:05:21I teamed up with Ekster to make this.
1:05:22Typically, I can only bring some of my
1:05:24black shirts, and it's a trade-off of
1:05:25which black shirt should I bring? How
1:05:27many of these do you think I can get in
1:05:28here? So, let's try
1:05:301 2 3
1:05:325 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14. Let's try 15.
1:05:4116 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24.
1:05:46Okay, so that's 24 black t-shirts.
1:05:49Here's where the magic comes in. Zip it
1:05:51up. Make sure it's nice and sealed, and
1:05:52then use this little contraption.
1:05:55Stick it on there. I can now take more
1:05:56than 20 black shirts with me, which will
1:05:59last me 3 weeks. So, if you travel
1:06:01frequently and you want to get one of
1:06:03these so you can save more space and be
1:06:04away for longer, go to ekster.com and
1:06:07use code DOAC for 10% off our
1:06:09collection.
1:06:11>> And I think some of the background
1:06:11context here is that mainstream oncology
1:06:14operates on the
1:06:15sort of somatic mutation therapy, which
1:06:17is the belief that cancer is
1:06:18fundamentally a genetic disease driven
1:06:21by DNA mutations. And because their
1:06:23training focuses on genetics, their
1:06:25treatments are designed to target DNA
1:06:26and cell division, like chemo radiation
1:06:28targeted genetic therapies, rather than
1:06:31manipulating cell cellular metabolism.
1:06:34And lastly, as mentioned, I think we
1:06:36talked about this earlier, mainstream
1:06:37medicine requires massive multi-center
1:06:40double-blind phase three clinical trials
1:06:42before a protocol becomes the standard
1:06:44of care. So, dietary interventions
1:06:46rarely get the level of funding. So,
1:06:47oncologists lack the institutional green
1:06:49light to prescribe them to patients, and
1:06:52they tend to say to them, "Eat what you
1:06:54can."
1:06:54>> I I don't blame them. They're good Many
1:06:56of them are good people. The problem is
1:06:58the system doesn't train them to
1:06:59understand the biology and biochemistry
1:07:01of the disease they're treating.
1:07:03Uh some of them become very resistant.
1:07:04It's They say get angry because I if I
1:07:06Why didn't I why wasn't I told this?
1:07:09Well, first of all, they're not reading
1:07:10these papers.
1:07:11Uh you ask them about it. They I never
1:07:12read it. Well, how are you going to know
1:07:13anything if you don't read the
1:07:14literature? Um listen to this.
1:07:17The National Cancer Institute, the NCI,
1:07:19on their website, on their website, says
1:07:21cancer is a genetic disease caused by
1:07:23what you just said. Okay. They Well, I
1:07:26said, "Why don't they put the articles
1:07:28in there showing all the tumors they
1:07:30can't find any mutations?" The somatic
1:07:32mutation theory says that cancer is
1:07:34caused by random genetic mutations. So,
1:07:37now
1:07:38new sequencing of normal people like you
1:07:42and me are finding mutations in all
1:07:43these driver genes and cells in our body
1:07:45that aren't in disregulated cell growth.
1:07:47So, we're calling them wild type
1:07:49cancers. What do you mean a wild type
1:07:50cancer?
1:07:50>> You lost me.
1:07:52>> Okay. The nucleus of a tumor cell, a
1:07:54raging tumor cell,
1:07:55>> Mhm.
1:07:56>> what's causing him that cell to grow? Is
1:07:58it the mitochondria in the cytoplasm or
1:08:00is it the mutations in the nucleus?
1:08:02Okay. The So, according to the somatic
1:08:05mutation theory, it's the mutations in
1:08:07the nucleus that are causing the
1:08:08disregulated cell growth. You take that
1:08:10nucleus and put it into into a
1:08:13enucleated normal cell.
1:08:15>> Yeah, and there's no cancer.
1:08:16>> No can- There's no disregulated
1:08:17>> There must be something else.
1:08:19>> Then you take the nucleus of the normal
1:08:21cell
1:08:22and put it into the cytoplasm of a tumor
1:08:24cell
1:08:25and you get disregulated cell growth.
1:08:27>> So, it must be something other than the
1:08:28nucleus.
1:08:29>> Yes, the mitochondria.
1:08:30>> Interestingly, it says
1:08:31>> So, mitochondria controlling our
1:08:32destiny.
1:08:33And and and the field the field of
1:08:35cancer has yet to understand it,
1:08:39accept it, and then say, "Well, we can't
1:08:41do any of this until we double line
1:08:43cross." Well, that's just What do you
1:08:44mean to tell The science is telling us
1:08:45this. That's your way of protecting a
1:08:48broken system.
1:08:49>> Are you pissed off about this cuz you do
1:08:50seem pissed off about this?
1:08:51>> Well, who wouldn't be?
1:08:53Stephen,
1:08:55there's 1,700
1:08:57people a day in this country dying from
1:09:00cancer. I don't know what the English
1:09:01is.
1:09:02Listen, that that comes out to 70 an
1:09:04hour and it gets worse every single
1:09:07year. And the last time I was on the
1:09:08show, you guys use some old data. Look
1:09:11it up today. It's 2026. American Cancer
1:09:14Society says this year in 2026, we will
1:09:17have 626,000
1:09:21souls leave the planet from cancer.
1:09:25Okay, this 2026. And every year it gets
1:09:28worse. So, when you hear all the
1:09:30breakthroughs
1:09:31We have We have television ads in Boston
1:09:34for the cancer breakthrough after
1:09:36breakthrough after breakthrough.
1:09:38All these different They come on and and
1:09:41and and all we do is get more dead
1:09:42cancer patients. Raise money for cancer.
1:09:45Where's the Where's the accountability
1:09:47for all the money you're raising? When
1:09:48are the world When is the people going
1:09:49to wake up? You don't make someone
1:09:52healthy by irradiating and poisoning
1:09:54them. You've got to understand the
1:09:56biology and the biochemistry of the
1:09:58disease. I have the concepts and the the
1:10:00proofs, but the physician who works with
1:10:03the patient on a clinic basis, they're
1:10:05the ones that must apply this to the
1:10:07clinic. So, there's two different things
1:10:08here. There's the hard science that's
1:10:10the that's the
1:10:11bedrock for this and then there's the
1:10:13clinical person who has the practice so
1:10:15that practice does that. Together, you
1:10:17get great success or better I say say
1:10:19success better than anything that's out
1:10:21there today.
1:10:22>> The American Cancer Society recently
1:10:23released its latest projections for 25
1:10:26and 26 and the data paints a fascinating
1:10:28dual-sided picture. More people are
1:10:30getting diagnosed with cancer.
1:10:32Um new cases the ACS projects over 2.11
1:10:36million new cancer diagnoses in 2026.
1:10:39This translates roughly to 5,800 new
1:10:42cases every single day.
1:10:44Approximately 626,000 Americans are
1:10:46expected to die from cancer in 2026.
1:10:49Right.
1:10:50>> Right.
1:10:50>> About 1,700 deaths per day. Lung cancer
1:10:54remains the leading cause of cancer
1:10:55death projected to cause more fatalities
1:10:58than
1:10:59>> colorectal
1:11:00>> colorectal and pancreatic cancers
1:11:02combined. I also just want wanted to
1:11:03pick a whole point we were talking about
1:11:04earlier, which is about the metabolic
1:11:06approach to cancers. It says here, and
1:11:09this is going to the point about, you
1:11:10know, people telling you to just eat
1:11:11whatever you want while you're, you
1:11:13know, managing cancer.
1:11:14Um because the primary goal of the
1:11:16hospital dietitian is to prevent weight
1:11:17loss during brutal chemotherapy regimes,
1:11:20patients are frequently told to eat
1:11:22whatever they can and eat whatever they
1:11:24can keep down. It is incredibly common
1:11:25for cancer patients to be handed meal
1:11:27replacement shakes, which are often
1:11:28packed with corn syrups and refined
1:11:30sugars, ice cream, and high-carbohydrate
1:11:32comfort foods just to keep their
1:11:34calorific intake up. From a metabolic
1:11:36perspective,
1:11:38this is a tragedy. While it keeps weight
1:11:40on the patient, it simultaneously floods
1:11:42the bloodstream with glucose and
1:11:43insulin, directly feeding the tumor.
1:11:46Um and while keto is not the standard of
1:11:48care, the landscape is beginning to
1:11:50slowly shift. There is a growing
1:11:52minority of integrative oncologists and
1:11:55specialized metabolic clinicians
1:11:56worldwide that actively prescribe
1:11:58therapeutic ketosis alongside
1:12:01conventional treatments. Those doctors
1:12:02use the keto diet and fasting protocols
1:12:04to protect healthy cells and um and
1:12:07sanitize tumors before administering
1:12:09lower, more targeted doses of chemo.
1:12:11>> Yeah, actually we developed that's our
1:12:13that's our plan. That's that's what
1:12:14we're doing. Okay? We we we do that
1:12:17because we understand the biology and
1:12:18biochemistry. And that's why we
1:12:20developed we're developing the new
1:12:21society called More, the Metabolic
1:12:23Alliance, Metabolic Oncology
1:12:26Research and Education. This is bringing
1:12:29uh together what you just mentioned
1:12:30there, an illogical approach to manage
1:12:33cancer. This is a logical approach based
1:12:36on the hard science of decades of
1:12:38research, initiated originally by Otto
1:12:41Warburg and then continued by our group
1:12:43at Boston College.
1:12:45>> The American Cancer Society says that
1:12:46breast cancer is increasing, prostate
1:12:48cancer is increasing, pancreatic cancer,
1:12:49melanoma, HPV-associated oral cancers
1:12:52are steadily increasing in the incidence
1:12:55of severe
1:12:56um cancers.
1:12:57>> Yeah. There has been no major advance in
1:13:01managing glioblastoma in 100 years.
1:13:04>> What's glioblastoma?
1:13:05>> That's the the the deadly brain cancer,
1:13:07okay? That killed uh Teddy Kennedy from
1:13:10Massachusetts, Senator Kennedy, John
1:13:12McCain, President Biden's son, Beau
1:13:14Biden. Uh it's killed a lot of various
1:13:17people and it's considered a death
1:13:19sentence. So, no, no, no, no. We we
1:13:20we're keeping these guys alive. Okay?
1:13:22We're not saying we cure the cancer, but
1:13:24we can certainly keep them alive a lot
1:13:25longer. Pancreatic cancer, always
1:13:28considered so bad. We're getting very
1:13:30excellent results in managing pancreatic
1:13:32cancer using metabolic therapies. We
1:13:34know what to do and we know how to do
1:13:36it. I have clinicians that work with me,
1:13:39dieticians that know how to manage
1:13:40cancer effectively. We can do it right
1:13:43now, today. If someone were to say,
1:13:45"Seefried, get your get your group
1:13:47together. Let me see what you can do." I
1:13:49will put up our metabolic therapy
1:13:51against any trial from any of these
1:13:53pharmaceutical companies. We can keep
1:13:55these people alive a hell of a lot
1:13:56longer to participate in our society.
1:13:58We're not doing that.
1:14:00>> If you were made president today
1:14:02>> Of the United States?
1:14:03>> Of the United States.
1:14:05>> Don't go there.
1:14:06>> I'm going to go there.
1:14:09>> Those guys are
1:14:11uh
1:14:12not Let's put it this way, they're not
1:14:14scientifically literate.
1:14:16>> [laughter]
1:14:16>> But you know
1:14:16>> Well, I would have to be. Yeah, right.
1:14:17>> You Professor Thomas Seefried, you're
1:14:19now president of the United States and
1:14:21your sole primary objective is to bring
1:14:24down this 1,700 Americans that are going
1:14:27to get cancer a day.
1:14:29Um Is it a Is it get cancer or die from
1:14:32cancer?
1:14:32>> No, they die from cancer. 1,700 a day
1:14:35dying from cancer in the United 70 an
1:14:37hour. Think about it.
1:14:39>> You you can put in place policies to
1:14:41stop this happening and to also help
1:14:42people manage it better. What is it you
1:14:44do?
1:14:44>> First of all, we wouldn't throw out
1:14:46everything. Just like I said, we have a
1:14:48strategy now to manage cancer
1:14:50effectively.
1:14:51>> Okay, so you also want to
1:14:52>> going to We're not going to get rid of
1:14:53the drugs that are making billions and
1:14:55billions of dollars. We're just going to
1:14:57use them at lower doses and a different
1:14:58different
1:14:59>> But we also want to prevent it in the
1:15:00first place.
1:15:00>> Well, preventing it that that that comes
1:15:03back to our chart.
1:15:03>> I'm going to write down the manifesto.
1:15:05So what is what do we do to prevent the
1:15:0771 people an hour dying of cancer?
1:15:09>> Well, that has to come from government
1:15:10policies.
1:15:11>> Okay, you just got promotion. You're now
1:15:12the king of the United States. So you
1:15:13don't even need to ask anybody.
1:15:15What do you do to prevent the 71 people
1:15:17a day dying of cancer?
1:15:19>> It's going to be education.
1:15:20>> Education number one.
1:15:22>> Education number one.
1:15:23>> Okay.
1:15:23>> You have to let people know that those
1:15:27And now, let me tell you another thing
1:15:28that's really important.
1:15:30It should not be any government or
1:15:32government official
1:15:34telling anyone what they should or
1:15:36should not eat. Okay?
1:15:39The the power of this chart is um
1:15:42personal you're emboldening the patient.
1:15:45They have to know.
1:15:47We're not going to tell somebody oh, if
1:15:49you continue to eat bad food, you're
1:15:52going to have you're at high risk. And
1:15:54that person I don't care. I'll smoke
1:15:56cigarettes and I'm going to Well, the
1:15:57government's not going to come into this
1:15:58guy's house and take away the bad food.
1:15:59No, no, no, no. That should never
1:16:01happen.
1:16:02Those foods are there because they give
1:16:03us pleasure.
1:16:05But they should be the the knowledgeable
1:16:07person would be to say, I like to have
1:16:10it every now and then, but I can't live
1:16:12in that environment. And the other thing
1:16:13we do terribly in this country
1:16:15the poor people in these food deserts
1:16:19where you only get crap food and and
1:16:22that's a tragedy in itself. They're they
1:16:24to go to Whole Whole Foods where they
1:16:26have the expensive ribeyes and all this
1:16:28stuff,
1:16:29that's much more expensive. A lot of
1:16:30people can't afford the kinds of foods
1:16:33that will put them in these better
1:16:34healthy zones.
1:16:35>> So we're going to make food healthy food
1:16:37more cost cost effective, cheaper.
1:16:40>> those are easy words to say, but in
1:16:41practicality it's not.
1:16:43>> And what kinds of food should people be
1:16:45eating?
1:16:45>> Well, I I think they should just try to
1:16:47avoid the highly processed carbs. Okay,
1:16:49you don't Listen to this.
1:16:51You and and exercise.
1:16:53There's a lot of things we can do
1:16:56that would mitigate
1:16:58the the inflammatory conditions put on
1:17:00this chart. The goal here is we know
1:17:03what keeps us healthy.
1:17:05It's the efficiency of that organelle.
1:17:07We want to do everything possible to
1:17:09keep that organelle healthy. We will
1:17:12reduce dementia. We will reduce
1:17:14diabetes. We will reduce obesity. And
1:17:17they say, "Well, GLP, why don't I don't
1:17:19want to do" And human beings are are the
1:17:20kind that I want a quick fix for
1:17:22everything.
1:17:23Right?
1:17:23>> Ozempic, how about some Ozempic?
1:17:25>> Is this What is this GLP? Yeah.
1:17:28>> Okay, we don't you know First of all,
1:17:31we haven't done any research yet to know
1:17:33where a GLP would put you on the chart.
1:17:36We do know one thing, it lowers blood
1:17:37sugar.
1:17:39How level How high of a level would it
1:17:40bring to ketone? Cuz it's the ketones
1:17:42that keep the organelle healthy. So, I'm
1:17:45lowering blood sugar, but am I raising
1:17:47the ketones that enhance the
1:17:48bioenergetic efficiency of the
1:17:50organelle? I don't know what number
1:17:53and it hasn't been done yet. I don't I
1:17:54haven't seen any papers coming out.
1:17:56>> Okay, so we'll keep the Ozempic off the
1:17:58table, but you're saying exercise number
1:17:59three. So, I've got I've got education.
1:18:01>> Yeah.
1:18:02>> Kill the food deserts, so people can get
1:18:03healthy food.
1:18:04>> Yeah.
1:18:05>> Um stay away from the ultra-processed
1:18:06stuff. Number three, exercise. We're
1:18:08going to give everybody free gym
1:18:09memberships and we're going
1:18:10>> What else is there?
1:18:10>> Reduce stress, emotional stress. You got
1:18:12to You got to do that. And there's a lot
1:18:14of ways, music therapy. There's a lot of
1:18:15different ways you can achieve that.
1:18:16>> Meditation.
1:18:17>> Friends, happiness, all of those reduce
1:18:20stress. So, I had I had a guy from uh
1:18:22Korea.
1:18:24He I think it was Japan or Korea. We had
1:18:25a big meeting one time. And he he didn't
1:18:27tell me what to do. He says,
1:18:29"Um you want to get cancer If your job
1:18:32and if your goal in life is to get
1:18:33cancer, you got to eat crap food all the
1:18:36time.
1:18:37You have to terrible sleep. Make sure
1:18:39you never un-ass the couch, sit in front
1:18:41of the TV all day, look at doom
1:18:42scrolling, do all that kind of stuff.
1:18:44Make sure you never exercise, and make
1:18:46sure you don't have any friends or be
1:18:48happy.
1:18:49>> [laughter]
1:18:50>> You're on A FAST TRACK FOR for not only
1:18:53cancer, but all these other chronic
1:18:54diseases. So So that's the
1:18:57what I just said is you need to not do
1:18:59that.
1:19:00You're doing a great job. You know,
1:19:01you're There's not many people are going
1:19:03to be measuring their GKI every day. But
1:19:05there are people who love to measure
1:19:07that kind of stuff. Um now I I would say
1:19:09another thing. So they put these things
1:19:11on your arm, these continuous sugar
1:19:13monitors. They're making continuous
1:19:14glucose ketone monitors. So apps are
1:19:17coming out now, believe me. There's apps
1:19:19I have my
1:19:20Lucas Lu and some others are making
1:19:22these apps in my lab, and and um you can
1:19:25take your cell phone
1:19:27and and photograph
1:19:29a particular food item.
1:19:31>> [laughter]
1:19:32>> And and the food item immediately you
1:19:34put places your the food item on the
1:19:36chart. So you'll know eating that will
1:19:38give you what zone you'll be in if you
1:19:40eat it. So um it's really interesting,
1:19:43and and these things are coming. We're
1:19:44using AI to So but it's purely patient
1:19:48empowerment. Okay? The patient
1:19:50themselves, the person themselves make
1:19:53the choices. No government, president,
1:19:56or king, or whatever you want to say,
1:19:58should ever tell people what and how
1:20:01they should eat. The patient should be
1:20:03familiar with this and have the
1:20:05knowledge to know I'm going to test what
1:20:07I think. So people say to me all the
1:20:09time, "What he What
1:20:10Just tell us what you can eat." That's
1:20:12all they say to me. Okay, eat whatever
1:20:14you want. You figure out where on the
1:20:16chart you're going to be, and then
1:20:17you'll know. So people say, "Why can't I
1:20:19eat ketogenic diet?" Well, our our group
1:20:21in in Greece, now you tell me.
1:20:23They got the brain cancer tremendous
1:20:25success in keeping brain glioblastoma
1:20:27guys alive. What was the diet? It was a
1:20:29calorie restricted Mediterranean diet.
1:20:31Salmon,
1:20:33sardines,
1:20:35olive oil,
1:20:36avocado, and exercise. That Is that like
1:20:39oh man, that's that's the worst diet.
1:20:41What about the carnivore diet? What
1:20:43about the
1:20:44ribeye with a little sauce béarnaise on
1:20:45top of it? This keeps your
1:20:48your blood sugar low and elevates your
1:20:49ketone. If you want to do it with
1:20:51plants,
1:20:53everything you got fish, plants, you you
1:20:55got the
1:20:56vegans and all these kind of people.
1:20:58This is a bioenergetic road map to
1:21:01health.
1:21:01>> Let me just give some specific examples.
1:21:03What about What about high fructose corn
1:21:05syrups and refined
1:21:06>> Oh man, that's the worst kind of crap.
1:21:07You don't take that.
1:21:08>> What about What about industrial seed
1:21:10oils?
1:21:11>> Well, you know, people talk about seed
1:21:12oils.
1:21:13>> Canola and soybean
1:21:14>> Yeah, I don't know. PUT IT EVERY THAT
1:21:15WAS ANOTHER THING, TOO.
1:21:17Uh
1:21:18You and I are different. Uh we have an
1:21:20individual metabolism.
1:21:22Uh age, race, sex, all all the religion,
1:21:25all kinds of stuff determine what and
1:21:28how you live. And I can't be sure
1:21:31uh what you eat and what I eat or what
1:21:33you exercise and where it's going to put
1:21:35put us on the chart.
1:21:36>> Synthetic pesticides. I was reading here
1:21:38that it in- increases the chance of
1:21:40lymphoma by a staggering 41%.
1:21:42>> They all damage the oxidative
1:21:43phosphorylation,
1:21:45putting the cell at risk for
1:21:46compensatory fermentation, dysregulated
1:21:48cell growth.
1:21:50The problem The problem the field
1:21:52doesn't understand what I'm saying with
1:21:54respect to the origin of cancer, how it
1:21:57happens mechanistically,
1:21:59how this organelle controls the life of
1:22:01the cell.
1:22:02Uh they don't know enough about the
1:22:04biology and biochemistry of the
1:22:05mitochondria. You want to get guys on
1:22:07here like Nick Lane. He he from England.
1:22:10I mean, these guys like uh Doug Wallace
1:22:12and some of these guys, they're
1:22:13mitochondrial biologists. They they they
1:22:16understand this kind of stuff.
1:22:17>> I want to give people actionable things
1:22:19that they can think about. So, um that's
1:22:20why I was asking you this question about
1:22:21you becoming king. Fasting protocols.
1:22:25>> Well, okay.
1:22:26>> fasting?
1:22:27>> let me let me talk about that just
1:22:28briefly. Do you ever try it?
1:22:30>> Yeah.
1:22:31>> What do you think? You liked it?
1:22:33>> It depends how long you're talking
1:22:33about.
1:22:34>> Okay, let's go a week.
1:22:36>> Uh I know I've not fasted for a week
1:22:37before.
1:22:37>> Okay. You know what is the call the
1:22:39wall? This guy I he just sent me his
1:22:40book it's coming out a very nice guy,
1:22:42Valter Longo. Simak. He said people
1:22:45share things with me. The wall is after
1:22:47about 3 days
1:22:49of not eating just drinking water
1:22:52you hit this wall and it's like, "Oh
1:22:54man, I'm just I can't deal with it
1:22:56anymore.
1:22:57It's just a terrible feeling in my body.
1:22:59I can't sleep at night. I got the Jimmy
1:23:00legs. I got all kinds of problems. Screw
1:23:02it. I'm not doing this." He found out if
1:23:03you sip just tiny amounts of a grape
1:23:06juice you can get get through the wall.
1:23:07What we do for the cancer patients in
1:23:10the way we design our clinical
1:23:12procedures with my clinical friends
1:23:14we do a zero carb diet for about a week
1:23:17while the body is readjusting getting
1:23:19getting bringing them out of the red
1:23:21zone getting into the yellow zone.
1:23:22You can't believe the power of glucose
1:23:24is an addictive drug on the brain. It's
1:23:26unbelievable. It's like cocaine. It it's
1:23:29it's and you know that when you start
1:23:31you start shaking and you go So, but if
1:23:33you don't eat carbs and just eat meat or
1:23:35whatever to keep you in a low GKI
1:23:38um then when you jump off to the water
1:23:40only fasting it's much less traumatic to
1:23:42the brain. You've gone through the wall
1:23:43of the gate so to speak. So, once you
1:23:46know how to get through the gate you
1:23:47make this whole process a lot a lot
1:23:49easier and that helps people enormously
1:23:52especially those people that want to get
1:23:54rid of their chronic disease, okay?
1:23:56Because or some you know, we have a lot
1:23:58of people out there that just like to do
1:24:00all this stuff, you know, you ever get
1:24:01these these people that go overboard on
1:24:02everything. But, you know, right now we
1:24:05have
1:24:06an obesity chronic epidemic cancer
1:24:08epidemic all of these epidemics are the
1:24:11result of an abuse of that organelle in
1:24:13one way or another and we have a a plan
1:24:15to mitigate that abuse and at least
1:24:17people have it at least they're
1:24:19empowered to do it with the help of
1:24:21knowledgeable physicians.
1:24:23>> I want to just keep on this point of
1:24:24actionable feedback. So, um Dr. Valter
1:24:26Longo's who's Dr. His extensive research
1:24:28clinical trials prove that
1:24:29fasting-mimicking diets drastically
1:24:31lower IGF-1
1:24:34which triggers cellular autophagy and
1:24:35actually makes standard cancer therapies
1:24:37up to three times more effective by
1:24:39removing the metabolic shield of cancer
1:24:41cells.
1:24:42>> Yeah, which is the glu- the waste
1:24:44[clears throat] products of of of glu-
1:24:45which is the lactic acid and the
1:24:47succinic acid. That all goes down.
1:24:49>> Would you recommend again, if you're
1:24:50king, would you recommend that every
1:24:52>> I would never recommend any I have to
1:24:54just give them the knowledge. Then the
1:24:55person has to make the decision
1:24:56themselves.
1:24:57>> think it could be beneficial?
1:24:59>> Of course.
1:24:59>> were king to
1:25:01um have everybody wear a CGM, one of
1:25:04those continuous glucose monitors at
1:25:05least once.
1:25:06>> No.
1:25:07>> Never.
1:25:08>> No, I I think if you have cancer and you
1:25:11really want to stay in this green zone
1:25:12to know
1:25:13right? Listen, I was down in in Mexico
1:25:15not long ago. I was talking to one of
1:25:16the head physicians down there. He wore
1:25:19one of these things, right?
1:25:20>> Mhm.
1:25:20>> He said, "Every time I wanted to go out
1:25:21and have a party, have a good time, this
1:25:23damn thing would be beeping." So, what
1:25:25he ripped it off and threw it in the
1:25:26trash. So,
1:25:27he said [laughter] he You don't want
1:25:29somebody barking in your ear when you're
1:25:31having a good time. That's why what
1:25:32you're doing right now with this you're
1:25:34choosing to prick your finger.
1:25:37You're the one making that decision.
1:25:38There's not something on your arm
1:25:40saying, "Stephen, don't do that. Don't
1:25:41do that."
1:25:42>> But you know what? It was useful to wear
1:25:43it once or twice because it even I could
1:25:46I suddenly realized that things I put in
1:25:48my mouth
1:25:49>> Yeah.
1:25:49>> had an impact on my blood sugar and my
1:25:51blood, which [clears throat] was also I
1:25:53realized it had an impact in 10 minutes.
1:25:55>> Yeah, all fits.
1:25:55>> And then and then also when my blood
1:25:57sugar came back down and crashed
1:25:59>> Yeah.
1:25:59>> I thought, "Oh gosh, I feel
1:26:01I could suddenly pair my behavior to my
1:26:03feelings."
1:26:04>> Yes. Well, that that now I'm I'm not I I
1:26:07know I I've I've seen that. And not like
1:26:09that Andrew Scarborough from England who
1:26:11who has been doing this for for a year
1:26:13that stage three glioma. Uh he's like 15
1:26:17years out. He's done this so many times
1:26:19with the finger prick and all this. He
1:26:21knows already when his body is in these
1:26:23zones from the feeling that you just
1:26:25described. But for the people at the
1:26:27beginning and who are given a terminal
1:26:29diagnosis, they want to get into these
1:26:31green zones and they want to use the
1:26:33things that are going to keep them alive
1:26:35on the planet for a longer period of
1:26:36time with a higher quality of life. That
1:26:38is important. That thing on your arm can
1:26:41help you stay in that zone until you
1:26:44have this thing managed, at which time
1:26:46you can choose when to do that. So this
1:26:49flexibility in this whole process, it's
1:26:51not one Like for example, we have the
1:26:53standard of care, which is written in
1:26:55granite for crying out loud. They get
1:26:57all they they owe you if you do anything
1:26:58different from the standard of care, you
1:27:00could lose your license as a physician.
1:27:02Metabolic therapy is is patient driven.
1:27:05It's driven on the patient. What about
1:27:07hyperbaric oxygen? There was a study in
1:27:092013 that demonstrated that while a
1:27:11ketogenic diet alone significantly
1:27:13slowed tumor growth in systemic
1:27:15metastatic cancer mouse models,
1:27:16combining the diet with hyperbaric
1:27:18oxygen therapy listed a profound
1:27:21synergistic decrease in tumor growth and
1:27:23drastically increased survival times.
1:27:25Yeah, we we published that paper with
1:27:26Dominic D'Agostino. So we we put my So
1:27:29listen, hyperbaric oxygen will create
1:27:32oxidative stress in cells that do not
1:27:35have efficient oxidative
1:27:36phosphorylation. Uh cancer cells. Cancer
1:27:38cells. So you can kill cancer cells by
1:27:41oxidative stress by irradiating or
1:27:42poisoning them, or you can put a patient
1:27:44into a nutritional ketosis and then put
1:27:48them in hyperbaric oxygen and the cancer
1:27:50cells are selectively killed. When you
1:27:53irradiate somebody, you're damaging the
1:27:54whole body with all kinds of stuff. And
1:27:56there's another thing, Stephen, you got
1:27:57to listen to this and you listen
1:27:58carefully.
1:28:00When you go to these treat these
1:28:01standard of care,
1:28:03it it standard When you use standard of
1:28:05care, radiation, chemo, whatever they
1:28:06give you, immunotherapies or whatever.
1:28:08So the patient comes in and he says,
1:28:10"I've been really working hard on this."
1:28:12The doctor says, "Oh, no, that doesn't
1:28:13work, right?" Gives you some radiation
1:28:15or gives you get
1:28:16you're [laughter] flying up into the red
1:28:17zone. The treatment itself puts so much
1:28:20stress on the body that the body itself
1:28:22starts going you go into the red zone
1:28:24from the very treatments
1:28:26that you're giving to the patient, which
1:28:27is making strengthening the tumor cells.
1:28:30>> You don't against chemotherapy, do you?
1:28:32>> No. I'm I'm I'm positive about it, but
1:28:34it has to be used in the right context.
1:28:37>> Yeah.
1:28:38>> It has to be used when your body is in
1:28:39this new state of nutrition. And you can
1:28:41use low doses, so you don't force the
1:28:44tumor cell to become even more resistant
1:28:47to the treatment.
1:28:49>> The next thing, which is actionable, is
1:28:51what you talked about earlier, which is
1:28:52these microplastics and forever
1:28:53chemicals. In late 2023, the
1:28:55International Agency for Research on
1:28:56Cancer officially upgraded these forever
1:28:59chemicals, which are used in nonstick
1:29:00pans and food packaging, to a grade one
1:29:03carcinogen.
1:29:04>> Mhm.
1:29:05>> In humans. Cancer causing in humans
1:29:07based on strong mechanistic evidence
1:29:08that it induces epigenetic, which is
1:29:11gene alterations, and suppresses the
1:29:13immune system. So, you'd ban the forever
1:29:15chemicals.
1:29:16>> Okay.
1:29:17Uh this is beautiful paper. I went back
1:29:19and I took what all of Otto Warburg and
1:29:21meticulously went through all of his
1:29:23work, showed where he was absolutely
1:29:25correct, and where he just didn't have
1:29:26the the new information that would make
1:29:27him I talked about the forever
1:29:29chemicals, microplastics. Guess what?
1:29:33They damage the organelle. They get into
1:29:35They break They cause Ross and damage
1:29:37They It reduce the efficiency
1:29:40of oxidative phosphorylation causing a
1:29:43compensatory increase in the utilization
1:29:46of glucose and glutamine and
1:29:47disregulated cell growth. Everything
1:29:49comes back to this organelle. Chr- All
1:29:52chronic diseases and cancer are the
1:29:53result of damage to this organelle.
1:29:56That's why having this little thing here
1:29:58is so important.
1:29:59Uh it's a great prop. I ought to get one
1:30:01for my class.
1:30:02>> You can keep it.
1:30:04Um
1:30:04the next thing is purifying the water
1:30:06supply. Um heavy metals are found in
1:30:08local water supplies to run off and
1:30:10ultimately are carcinogenic in some
1:30:12cases. The IARC classifies arsenic and
1:30:17cadmium as group one carcinogenics and
1:30:20they're frequently found in unfiltered
1:30:22public water infrastructure.
1:30:24So you clean up the water supply as
1:30:25well.
1:30:26>> Yeah.
1:30:27You know, all this stuff is coming into
1:30:29our water supplies. People flushing down
1:30:31all these chemicals into the into the
1:30:33which then leach back into the water
1:30:35supply. And every one of the chemicals
1:30:37that we have looked at that has been
1:30:38linked to oncology
1:30:40disregulated cell growth all damage the
1:30:42oxidative phosphorylation chronically.
1:30:45So we're bringing the entire focus back
1:30:48to things what can I do to keep this
1:30:51organelle healthy
1:30:53even if I'm exposed to these chemicals.
1:30:56If I can do get into these zones like
1:30:58you're trying to do so even if you are
1:31:00exposed to these this organelle has an
1:31:02incredible healing power in itself.
1:31:06>> What is the most important thing we
1:31:07haven't talked about that we should have
1:31:08talked about Professor Thomas?
1:31:09>> Well, I mean you you've covered a lot.
1:31:11One of the things I want to talk about
1:31:13is metastasis.
1:31:14>> What's that?
1:31:15>> That's the spread of the tumor
1:31:16throughout the body.
1:31:18Okay. So if you were to have a cancer
1:31:20that's just localized in one spot.
1:31:22>> Mhm.
1:31:23>> You know, the probability of developing
1:31:25a therapy that would be
1:31:28long-term is highly increased. The
1:31:31problem that kills people is the spread.
1:31:34So if the tumor is in the breast and it
1:31:36spreads to the liver and the lungs and
1:31:37the brain, you know, you've got a
1:31:38problem. Lung cancer spreads to the
1:31:41brain, the liver. Most of these cancers
1:31:43that spread to the brain or other organs
1:31:46become difficult and that's why you use
1:31:47systemic chemotherapy. You're trying to
1:31:49stop
1:31:51What we have found
1:31:52is that you have a
1:31:55stem cell. People love stem cells. If
1:31:56you ever hear the term stem cell tumor.
1:31:58Wow, stem cell tumor. Stem cell tumors
1:32:00cannot metastasize. How do I know?
1:32:02Because I had stem cell tumors
1:32:05diagnosed as stem cell tumors with stem
1:32:06cell markers. I've grown them. They grow
1:32:08very angry. They get a lot of blood
1:32:10vessels, but they can't spread. Okay.
1:32:13How do you get spreading tumor cells in
1:32:15your body? The immune system comes in,
1:32:18recognizes that as an unhealed wound,
1:32:20and then fuses with the stem cells. And
1:32:23then you have these hybrid cells.
1:32:25They are programmed to move around your
1:32:28body. So, they are a macrophage tumor
1:32:31cell hybrid. So, and they're very hard
1:32:33to kill. But, we found they're
1:32:35remarkably sensitive. They're glutamine
1:32:38driven.
1:32:39So, we know they're glutamine driven,
1:32:41and they need the glucose, and that's
1:32:43why That's why metabolic therapy done
1:32:45the right way can nail nail those
1:32:47metastatic cancer cells.
1:32:50Purging them with a little little bit of
1:32:52immunotherapy to go along with it, you
1:32:54might be able to to get what we call
1:32:56resolution. Don't forget, my colleagues
1:32:58and I, Dom D'Agostino and Joe Maroon, we
1:33:01built the press pulse therapeutic
1:33:02strategy. I mentioned that on your
1:33:03previous show. That's the way you you
1:33:07you press down the glucose of the tumor,
1:33:09and then you pulse to kill the
1:33:10glutamine, which will which will uh
1:33:12target the metastatic cancer cells,
1:33:14enhancing the help and vitality of the
1:33:16organs already infiltrated by the tumor.
1:33:18>> I looked on our previous conversation,
1:33:21uh Professor Thomas, and um
1:33:23it's quite heartbreaking because the
1:33:24comment sections are all people that are
1:33:27ei- either struggling themselves with
1:33:28cancer, or I love one of theirs, their
1:33:31wife, their husband has just been
1:33:33diagnosed with cancer.
1:33:34Is there anything for those people that
1:33:36have clicked on this video cuz I imagine
1:33:37they are in the millions?
1:33:39>> Yeah. The millions.
1:33:40>> want them to hear?
1:33:41>> Well, the thing of it is is why Well,
1:33:43this is a bigger issue. When you have
1:33:46the science, and you have the strategy
1:33:48to manage cancer effectively with
1:33:50minimal toxicity, not to say we can
1:33:52cure, but to say we can manage it,
1:33:55why is it not being done?
1:33:57That's the question.
1:33:58>> But to them
1:34:00to them who've tuned in
1:34:01>> okay.
1:34:02So these kinds of conversations that we
1:34:05have
1:34:06are allowing the populations to realize
1:34:09that there is their loved ones do not
1:34:13need to be sacrificed
1:34:16for the good of industries that are
1:34:19generally considered profitable. They In
1:34:22other words, the profitability of the
1:34:24industries are based on your sickness.
1:34:27Uh
1:34:28And and a lot of those comments came,
1:34:30"Oh, you can't you can't do anything."
1:34:31Yes, you can do something about it. When
1:34:33you're armed with the knowledge and
1:34:35people ignore the knowledge, then
1:34:37there's a problem.
1:34:38>> Do people need to sort of self-advocate
1:34:40to some degree?
1:34:41>> so.
1:34:42>> With that with uh care providers, what
1:34:44do they
1:34:45>> Yeah, I I I think that's a very delicate
1:34:47question.
1:34:47>> Yeah.
1:34:48>> The the oncologist never heard of this
1:34:49stuff.
1:34:50They have never read these papers. They
1:34:52were never trained in medical school to
1:34:54know the biology and biochemistry of
1:34:56cancer. It was taught to be a genetic
1:34:58disease. Theories are so important in
1:35:01science. For 1,800 years people thought
1:35:05the work of Aristotle, his comments, and
1:35:07the mathematics of Claudius Ptolemy said
1:35:10that the Earth was the center of the
1:35:12solar system
1:35:13and all the planets uh and sun revolved
1:35:17around the Earth, the geocentric theory.
1:35:19Right? Copernicus struggled with the
1:35:22Ptolemy mathematics and realized that if
1:35:25he put the the sun in the center of the
1:35:27solar system and made Earth just another
1:35:29planet, a lot of the mathematics made
1:35:31sense. Kepler comes in and says, "These
1:35:33aren't circles, they're ellipticals."
1:35:35Galileo takes the telescope, sees the
1:35:36moons of Jupiter, and was able to look
1:35:38at and quantify where where
1:35:41predict where planets would be at a
1:35:42certain period of time.
1:35:44Then they took poor Giordano Bruno. You
1:35:47know about this guy, Bruno?
1:35:48Oh, Stephen, you got to know Bruno. Your
1:35:50job is to know about the poor Bruno, who
1:35:52was burned alive by the Catholic Church
1:35:53for challenging
1:35:55the the the geocentric theory, and he
1:35:58became a martyr of science. So, when you
1:36:00have established power structure,
1:36:02whether it's
1:36:03a religion, or whether it's an industry,
1:36:05or whatever, challenging that can be
1:36:06very very hazardous.
1:36:08>> Has it been hazardous for you?
1:36:10>> I I listen,
1:36:11no. I mean, I do what I do because I
1:36:13like I just collect more and more data
1:36:15to support. Hazardous for me would be
1:36:17getting blindsided. Blindsided would be
1:36:19somebody coming at me with a piece of
1:36:21new data that I have never considered. I
1:36:24don't sleep I I think about this stuff
1:36:25all the time to avoid the blindside. My
1:36:28students are on the on the alert for any
1:36:30paper that comes out that says cancer
1:36:32Oh, cancer cells can burn fatty acids
1:36:34and ketone bodies. Oh, really? Let's go
1:36:36back through and dissect out their
1:36:38control experiments, and you find that
1:36:40every case there was always some glucose
1:36:42and glutamine in the media making it
1:36:43look like the fatty acids. So, so that's
1:36:46what bothers me. What bothers me is
1:36:48getting hit with a piece of data that
1:36:50undermines what we're what we our
1:36:52knowledge base is. And so far, we
1:36:54haven't had that. Okay, it's we're
1:36:56standing on the shoulders of Otto
1:36:58Warburg, a a giant in the field of
1:37:00biochemistry. He was thrown under the
1:37:01bus when everybody thought cancer was a
1:37:03genetic disease.
1:37:05My this paper goes back and shows
1:37:06exactly where Warburg made his mistakes
1:37:09and where we have rectified some of
1:37:10that, bringing the whole field back on
1:37:12where it should be. It is a
1:37:13mitochondrial metabolic disorder, and we
1:37:16can account for all of the phenotypes
1:37:18and characteristics of that disease,
1:37:20knowing that. Now, with that knowledge,
1:37:23logical people, and people interested in
1:37:25helping others, will will take advantage
1:37:28of that. We're not throwing out all
1:37:30these toxic chemicals, we're learning
1:37:32how to use them in a different way.
1:37:34And that's where the success is going to
1:37:35come.
1:37:36>> So, let's let's conclude with a
1:37:38actionable takeaway for people who are
1:37:40suffering themselves with with cancers,
1:37:43or have someone in their family right
1:37:45now that is suffering from cancers. What
1:37:47is the actionable take away?
1:37:49>> Well, I think the actionable take away
1:37:50once this paper comes out, they can
1:37:51start taking action if they are
1:37:53motivated enough.
1:37:54>> They can read about this.
1:37:55>> They can read about it and then try to
1:37:57like just like you're doing. No
1:37:59different. Get into these zones and then
1:38:02work with their oncologist,
1:38:04knowledgeable people to to to treat them
1:38:07with standards of care as long as they
1:38:09can remain and then we do non-invasive
1:38:12imaging, PET scans, see MRIs.
1:38:14>> So specifically, what what you're saying
1:38:16is this paper, I will link it below in
1:38:18the comments section for anyone that
1:38:19wants to read it. This graph will be on
1:38:21the screen throughout this episode
1:38:22anyway, so people can screenshot it if
1:38:23they want to have a look. And the way
1:38:25that they test what what their GKI index
1:38:28is is they can buy one of these Keto
1:38:30Mojo things which you can get on Amazon
1:38:32for $20,
1:38:33you prick your finger, it gives you the
1:38:36glucose reading, you divide it by 18.
1:38:39>> the the new machines have the button.
1:38:40You So even the people only have to do
1:38:42that.
1:38:42>> Okay, fine. And yeah, as you can see on
1:38:44here, this is an interesting
1:38:46way to sort of
1:38:48increase your your management, improve
1:38:51your management of of some of these
1:38:53>> Yeah, and then there's a challenge
1:38:55to get into those zones.
1:38:57Um, you know, I'm not saying this is
1:38:59easy stuff.
1:39:01GLP-1 inhibitor, man, that's a hell of a
1:39:03lot easier than than than doing this.
1:39:06>> And I should probably say always consult
1:39:07with a medical professional.
1:39:09>> Yeah, um, I I think uh
1:39:11because you know, a lot of people
1:39:13they have a lot of comorbidities.
1:39:15They have diabetes, high blood pressure,
1:39:17hypertension, cancer. They have a It's
1:39:20not a perfectly healthy person with
1:39:21cancer.
1:39:22>> Mhm.
1:39:22>> So before you go into challenge that,
1:39:25you need to have what you look like you
1:39:27you might look, you know, you might have
1:39:29to be adjusted in some way. That's why
1:39:30the people who the physicians that are
1:39:32working with this can do all that. I I'm
1:39:34I'm not in the clinical thing.
1:39:36>> And there are some people who respond
1:39:37poorly to the ketogenic diet and it's
1:39:39the high states of ketosis cuz I've I've
1:39:41received DMs before from a woman who
1:39:43said, "My My husband did ketosis and he
1:39:45collapsed unconscious." He took him to
1:39:47the hospital, he had some comorbidity.
1:39:49>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the other
1:39:50thing, too, is you got to be cuz some
1:39:51people have carnitine deficiencies.
1:39:53Carnitine prevents fatty acids from
1:39:55being made into ketone bodies.
1:39:56>> Ah.
1:39:57>> So So So they can be carnitine
1:39:59supplementation can help them. But you
1:40:00need a physician
1:40:02to know this.
1:40:04>> We have a closing tradition where the
1:40:05last guest leaves a question for the
1:40:06next. And the question left for you is
1:40:08on the subject of energy.
1:40:09What in your life has brought you the
1:40:11most energy?
1:40:12And what was the biggest energy drain
1:40:15you've ever experienced?
1:40:17>> Well, this is bringing me the biggest
1:40:18energy.
1:40:19>> This?
1:40:20>> [laughter]
1:40:21>> Well, that this, the whole concept. The
1:40:22idea that you have found
1:40:26uh Mother Nature has allowed you to look
1:40:30into the depths
1:40:31of of of what we consider the biology
1:40:35and biochemistry of how bodies work.
1:40:38And knowing how to take that and apply
1:40:40it to people that are suffering from all
1:40:42these different chronic diseases, and
1:40:44giving them the opportunity to change
1:40:47that. Because before that, it was
1:40:49mysterious. Oh, I'm do I mean keto, I
1:40:52What's your GKI? I I don't know. Well,
1:40:54now you have a quantitative opportunity.
1:40:57That gets us So we have a lot of
1:40:59evidence. I think people should be
1:41:01feeling encouraged. I think we have
1:41:04given hope to the hopeless.
1:41:06And And I think that's empowering. And
1:41:08the goal here is not to make a billion
1:41:10dollars, it's just to know that you've
1:41:12kept all these poor souls alive longer
1:41:14than they were projected to be to be.
1:41:16And I think this power that And that
1:41:17keeps us going.
1:41:18Because when we see more and more people
1:41:20coming to me, I get emails back from
1:41:22people three or four years ago. And I
1:41:23said, "Gee, I thought you were a goner."
1:41:25And he says, "Oh, I'm doing really well.
1:41:27Just came back from a vacation with my
1:41:28wife." Well, that's empowering. I said,
1:41:30"Well, that's good." And don't forget,
1:41:32Steven, all of our research money comes
1:41:34from private foundations and
1:41:35philanthropy.
1:41:37So
1:41:37>> So is that a way that people can help?
1:41:39>> Yeah.
1:41:39>> And where do they go to help?
1:41:40>> Uh uh Travis Kristofferson's foundation.
1:41:43So, we In my papers, they we have the
1:41:45foundations that support uh our work,
1:41:48private foundations.
1:41:49>> So, I'll link
1:41:49>> And there are occasionally Yes, please
1:41:51link. There are occasionally people I
1:41:52know I I I when I give kits of
1:41:54information to people,
1:41:56uh I say, "Please consider making a
1:41:58donation only if it works for you. Yeah.
1:42:01Don't charge them anything or ask them
1:42:04to pay something if it's not going to
1:42:06help them. If you were told to be dead
1:42:08in 6 months and you 6 years later you're
1:42:10alive, maybe you throw us a few shekels
1:42:12into the private found into the
1:42:14foundations supporting our work."
1:42:15>> I'll link that foundation below in the
1:42:17comments section.
1:42:17>> Yeah, we have a couple on breast cancer,
1:42:19on on on general general uh um support
1:42:22on the metabolic approach that we have.
1:42:24So, we have a lot going. We're very
1:42:26excited. You can see all the papers
1:42:28we've published. Uh and it's not like um
1:42:31uh some of these are in top journals.
1:42:33Some of them are in new journals, but
1:42:34but the issue is we're we're we're we're
1:42:37we're publishing this.
1:42:39>> My thing is, you know, I great great
1:42:41great respect for science and and
1:42:42doctors in the medical profession. Go go
1:42:44go get your information. Speak to
1:42:45medical provider. There's so many tools
1:42:47out there now. Go and check for
1:42:48yourself.
1:42:48>> Yeah, well, I think in the oncology
1:42:50field, that's where we have this vast
1:42:51wasteland of misinformation or
1:42:53misunderstanding. Let's put it that way.
1:42:55They don't understand these concepts
1:42:57where, you know, people who have done
1:42:58heart work and bone work and
1:43:00replacements, those people are at the
1:43:01state of the art with this kind of
1:43:02stuff.
1:43:03>> Well, the last conversation we had has
1:43:04reached about 15 million people. So, on
1:43:06YouTube it's got 10 million views and
1:43:08then across all the platforms it's got
1:43:09another five or so million views.
1:43:11>> Yeah.
1:43:11>> And when I went read through the comment
1:43:12sections, it's just it's so heartening
1:43:15for two reasons. One is you're giving
1:43:17people tools and science that they can
1:43:19think about and research themselves and
1:43:21speak to the medical practitioner about,
1:43:23but also
1:43:24it actually just creates a community of
1:43:26people in the comment section where, you
1:43:28know, this is a community of people that
1:43:29are searching for hope.
1:43:30>> Yeah.
1:43:31>> And as some of them read through the
1:43:32comment sections, they actually
1:43:33commented saying it was so nice to to
1:43:35speak to other people in the comment
1:43:36sections about what I'm going through
1:43:38and how it feels from an emotional
1:43:39level. So, this is something I actually
1:43:41wanted to say in this episode was if
1:43:42you're if you're listening to this
1:43:44conversation and you've gotten to this
1:43:45point, do you feel free to go into the
1:43:47comment section and just offer some
1:43:48support and some love to other people um
1:43:52who are struggling because, you know, it
1:43:54can be a very lonely experience the
1:43:55minute you find out you've got a
1:43:56diagnosis and off you go into the
1:43:58internet, into podcasts, into AI trying
1:44:00to figure out what you can do. So, yeah,
1:44:02do share things that have helped you,
1:44:04point at different resources that are
1:44:05rigorous and offer emotional support to
1:44:07those that are in the comment section.
1:44:08That would be a wonderful thing.
1:44:10Thomas,
1:44:11thank you so much for all that you do.
1:44:13Um you're you're an absolute warrior for
1:44:16pushing science the science into the
1:44:17world and for fighting for these people
1:44:19that don't have the tools. And if you I
1:44:21mean, I don't think I've ever seen a
1:44:23comment section quite like it in terms
1:44:24of the gratitude that people have for
1:44:25the work that you're doing.
1:44:27It is remarkable work. Long may you
1:44:29continue to do it.
1:44:29>> Thank you very much and you you know,
1:44:31you play a very important part on this
1:44:33because this information is not
1:44:34disseminated to the population and it is
1:44:37the population of people that will
1:44:39eventually make the change. So, they're
1:44:41going to want this especially when we
1:44:42keep publishing more and more case
1:44:44reports of successful cases.
1:44:47And the change the system will change.
1:44:49And we just have to modify what we have
1:44:51to make it better and I think that's
1:44:52what keeps us going. So, I have no plans
1:44:54of stopping this anytime soon. My
1:44:56students are all excited about this.
1:44:58They they're learning about it at Boston
1:45:00College. So, this is a big emphasis that
1:45:02we have and we continue to do it. Again,
1:45:05scientific literacy is so important
1:45:08uh for uh how you um navigate through
1:45:11life. And um thank you very much for
1:45:14your show and we'll we'll keep uh
1:45:16pushing this as as hard as we can.
1:45:17>> Thank you.
1:45:19YouTube have this new crazy algorithm
1:45:20where they know exactly what video you
1:45:22would like to watch next based on AI and
1:45:25all of your viewing behavior. And the
1:45:26algorithm says that this video is the
1:45:29perfect video for you. It's different
1:45:31for everybody looking right now. Check
1:45:33this video out, I bet you you might love
1:45:35it.

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