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Le Mans Ultimate's Future with Stephen Hood - Career, NASCAR, Driving Standards and More! — Transcript

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0:00I'm very happy with the progress of LMU.
0:02That's the real question, isn't it? The
0:03pricing at the end. Career mode in LMU
0:05got not dropped.
0:06>> The end. It's still a thing. Yeah.
0:10[music]
0:15[music]
0:18>> It's been 2 years since we had Mud Sport
0:20Games CEO Steven Hood on the Traction
0:22channel to discuss the future of Lmon
0:24Ultimate. With 1.4 four on the way and
0:26the US track pass. We thought it was a
0:28best time to check in again for a
0:30progress report. How has the company
0:32evolved over the last 24 months and what
0:34it's working on still for the future.
0:36It's very much still unfinished business
0:38as you'll find out in this interview. We
0:40discuss the NASCAR Garage 56 project, a
0:43bit of safety cars, driving standards,
0:45career mode progress, console version
0:47progress. It's all in here. Let me know
0:50your thoughts in the comments below as
0:51you listen and watch. But for now,
0:53Steven Hood. Steven Hood, pleasure to
0:56speak to you again. I think it's a
0:57couple years since we last did an
0:58interview like this. And uh Lemon
1:00Ultimate has moved on.
1:02>> Two years.
1:03>> I think it might have been years.
1:04>> Yeah. The la the last sort of let's say
1:07podcast style interview we did u quite a
1:10while ago.
1:11>> And so um
1:12>> Okay.
1:12>> Here I am. I'm all yours.
1:14>> Yeah. Since then uh the company that
1:17you're a CEO of has uh you know it's
1:19much more stable. Let's say it's
1:20improved a lot. [snorts] Um, and the
1:22game Lemon Ultimate has improved
1:24immeasurably. Uh, just in terms of not
1:27the last two years, but sort of this
1:28year so far, how would you assess Lemon
1:30Ultimates and its progress?
1:33>> Oo. Um, good good question. Very broad
1:36question. I mean, when it comes to Lemon
1:38Ultim Yeah. I mean, when it comes to
1:39Lemon Ultimate, of course, I'm happy
1:41because the reception is very positive
1:44and um, Le Man Ultimate is what we put
1:47all of our time and effort into. So when
1:49you refer to the company and you it's
1:50been a couple of years since we spoke. A
1:52lot has changed in that time. The
1:54company is is profitable for a long
1:56time. It was not and um that is
2:00predominantly thanks to LMU Lemon
2:03Ultimate and the world that we built
2:05around it with the race control platform
2:08and ultimately um that's led to the
2:11company turnaround. So it was the right
2:13focus. It was touch and go for a long
2:15time, but I'm very happy with the
2:16progress of LMU, but I'm never
2:19satisfied. And I think that runs through
2:21the studio. Like, we don't think it's
2:23finished. Some people are asking us how
2:25how much when do you move to the next
2:27project? LMU's still got a long way to
2:29go. So, I think it's probably maybe
2:32approaching mid life cycle. Console's
2:34not even out yet. So, I'm happy there's
2:37more to do.
2:38I thought the turnaround of the company
2:39was the Formula E liveries you keep
2:41releasing for Half Factor 2, but anyway.
2:43>> Well, it is key. Sometimes they go under
2:45the radar. Yeah. [laughter]
2:48>> No, it's good to see um Oh, I hear that
2:51expression. It's so overused, but I've
2:52said it. It's good. It is good to see
2:53that Ultimate is maturing nicely. But as
2:56you say there, there is work to do. And
2:58we're talking soon after the
3:00announcement of version 1.4 and the US
3:03tracks. I'd like to talk some bigger
3:05picture stuff, but let's let's drill
3:06down into the recent announcements. And
3:07there's some key details in there, I
3:09think, um, which I'd love to talk about.
3:12So, I'm going to start with the DLC
3:15>> in particular, six US tracks, uh, which
3:18is really cool. Quite a surprise for the
3:19community, I think. I think they're all
3:20locked in for Asian Lemon series, but
3:22here we are. Um, something outside of
3:25the ACO umbrella as well. So, there's
3:27quite a few things we could discuss
3:29here, but firstly, is this um
3:33obviously it's it's to give the
3:34community some really cool tracks, but
3:35is it also a move to try and broaden the
3:38simulations appeal in America?
3:40>> Yeah, I mean, starting with the Asian
3:42Lemon thing, we we may have even um you
3:45know, hinted in the past that we' go
3:47after that and we did. Um those
3:50conversations are still alive. It just
3:53transpired that um
3:56you know some of the circuits and we we
3:58license them individually because they
4:00they don't get wrapped into the license
4:03around Lemon Ultimate. Some big
4:05motorsport series like Formula 1 will
4:06like package everything up. It's like a
4:08broadcasting deal and they can
4:10throw it over the fence. And um but for
4:14for Leom the only thing I think we get
4:17part part of that license is the
4:18hypercars because the contracts for
4:21hypercars were um drafted and created in
4:24recent years and they were incorporated
4:26with a view to being able to license
4:27them out. we have to go to all the other
4:29manufacturers for the GT3s and the MPs
4:32and individual tracks and and do
4:35licensing deals and pay licensing fees
4:37for all of those things. And we went to
4:38Asian Leom um individual circuits,
4:43some quoted very high fees, some are
4:45more palatable, some didn't respond. Um
4:49and it it's just very time consuming.
4:51But we went we have a very good
4:53relationship believe it or not with
4:54NASCAR these days and um a very positive
4:57relationship with who thought I would
4:59say that um with uh with IMSA and
5:02they've been a delight to work with and
5:06he's helped by the fact that Nan
5:08Ultimate has been doing very well um
5:11because if Motorsport Games of old came
5:12to the table and said we want to license
5:14this content you know most of the time
5:15the shutter just comes down and uh the
5:18phone lines are disconnected but now
5:20Lemon has been doing really well. They
5:23can see that the company that exists
5:25today and the people behind it are doing
5:27the right thing and has a very positive
5:29vibe. So, who wouldn't want to be
5:31incorporated into Lemon Ultimate? And
5:33yes, we do want to broaden the the track
5:35reach and people ask for all sorts of
5:37circuits. we have an interest in in
5:39moving into the US steadily and um you
5:44know those conversations became fruitful
5:46very very early on and this is our first
5:49foray whether or not we will expand
5:51beyond that is difficult to say because
5:53it isn't part of the joint venture it
5:56doesn't come through the acco is an
5:57individual licensing agreement where
5:59we've incorporated those rights into the
6:02product that we serve um I'd like to do
6:05more with it but but I don't know if LMU
6:08will be the home for,
6:10you know, a crazy wide plethora of
6:13content. It's it's it's got to fit.
6:16>> Okay, good. because I do think the fact
6:18that when this US track pass uh was
6:20confirmed and it wasn't like set to uh
6:24an official IMSA pack let's say then I
6:27think what's happened uh now Stephen is
6:29every other comment will be no sleep for
6:31when and now you know [laughter]
6:34>> but so you're not writing that off per
6:36se but it's not necessarily going to be
6:37the case for now this is like a toe in
6:39the water let's see how this US track
6:40goes is that is that sort of fair to say
6:42>> uh yeah I'm saying something in in
6:44between I'm I can't I I loved Drive the
6:48Green Hell. I would I want to feature
6:50that whenever I write a pitch deck
6:52internally and sometimes I write a pitch
6:53deck just to to make it make it feel
6:55like I I know what I'm talking about and
6:57I try to sell it to people internally.
6:59Normally, you know, all my pitch decks
7:01are like the green hell and we're we're
7:04going to make this amazing title. I
7:06don't think that fits inside Lemon
7:09Ultimate.
7:09>> Mhm.
7:10>> It doesn't really work. Um, you can bend
7:13the rules, but the title is still lemon
7:16Ultimate and we've got some US tracks in
7:19there right now. You could argue, and I
7:22do see people asking for this cuz I'm a
7:24I'm a proler on Reddit and elsewhere,
7:26that um that IMSA brand with endurance
7:29racing could fit inside Lemon Ultimate.
7:31And I think it could, but it's it's
7:34early doors. And if we were going to go
7:37super wide with content, then I think
7:40I'd do it outside this joint venture and
7:42the structure that exists there where
7:44it's built for the benefit of that JV
7:47company.
7:48>> Yeah.
7:48>> And Lemon. Um, but we're trying to do
7:51something different because when people
7:53really enjoy the game, they want to
7:54drive different tracks and different
7:55cars.
7:56>> Yeah. I don't know if Lemon has to serve
7:58all of that in the future, but we're
8:00trying to to appease that right now
8:02because we we agree with it and we think
8:03it's fun.
8:05>> Okay. And just a point of clarification
8:06there, correct me if I'm wrong. You're
8:08talking about the joint venture and I
8:09don't know if many people know about
8:10this publicly per se, but you've got
8:12games and ACO are together in a joint
8:15venture. It's kind of like a it's
8:16related but a spin-off
8:18>> company per se and then that's where the
8:20model sits within this is kind of
8:22without that because outside of that
8:23because it's US tracks,
8:24>> right? Yeah. Yeah. Most Yes. It's very
8:27good summary. Motorport Games has like a
8:2951% controlling stake of that company
8:31and you know there are various terms and
8:32deals much of which is public but um
8:35>> and you know the acco uh we're trying to
8:40get into the video gaming space and
8:41racing and they wanted to be a part of
8:43it and they've been an amazing partner
8:45because like I said we we took that risk
8:47of going all in on this and we sold off
8:50everything else
8:52>> sold off the indie car game sold off
8:53NASCAR
8:55>> we didn't continue to work on car that
8:57that tiny studio that we did have was
8:59closed and it was all a risk. So the ACO
9:02had been great and now they feel very
9:04happy because that it's got a very
9:05public um positive perception. So
9:07[clears throat] even if we weren't
9:08building Leom tomorrow for example, I'm
9:10not saying that's a scoop, we are going
9:12to be building it tomorrow. That that
9:14brand and that value is there and I
9:16think a lot of people started building
9:17endurance content all of a sudden. I'm
9:19sure Lemon Ultimates contributed towards
9:21the value there.
9:23>> Oh yeah, certainly. I think it was one
9:24of the first titles with the the cool
9:25hypercars, the Ferrari in particular and
9:27some others. And then now that is sort
9:29of becoming a ubiquitous thing across
9:31sim racing. Um
9:34couple of things related to the US track
9:36pass before we move on to other topics
9:38just to sort of round off uh that area.
9:40Um you mentioned there about licensing
9:42circuits individually and some of them
9:44some of the prices you got back uh were
9:46quite high for some that maybe is that
9:49does that go some is that something you
9:51see more of tracks sort of charging more
9:54for licensing over the last few years
9:56and is it part of the reason why this uh
10:00expansion seems to be priced higher than
10:02previous DLC for the Ultimate
10:05>> that's the real question isn't it the
10:07pricing at the end so in in that in the
10:09order you set up. Um, no, I think that
10:12the licensing is um
10:15is a bit of a wild west actually with
10:18with the pricing for the individual
10:19tracks. I I don't feel as though as a
10:21group most tracks maybe in the US it's a
10:23little bit different which has helped
10:25facilitate the deal for the US tracks
10:28coming into Lmon Ultima. Um but
10:31elsewhere, you know, there can be
10:32individual private owners, some people
10:34not traditionally involved in motorsport
10:36and sometimes it feels as though they
10:39just go, "Ah, you're interested in
10:40putting this into a video game." All
10:42video games make a billion dollars a
10:44week. Therefore, we're going to ask for
10:46this and you know, we get we get shocked
10:49at some of the prices that and we don't
10:51pay them.
10:52>> Yeah. But also on the flip side, we
10:54don't start making track names up and
10:57incorporate non-licensed content in
10:59there, which you can choose to do. I
11:01don't think it fits our theme very well,
11:04and I don't think it works to save a few
11:05bucks for the long term. But the the
11:08pricing is very variable, can be very
11:11volatile. Some people are very efficient
11:14and quick and actually organized with a
11:16facility to license out their track
11:19content or cars or whatever it may be.
11:20others do not and you know you get you
11:23get passed around and it's no fault of
11:25their own. Um it just seems to be a lot
11:28of these tracks and sim racing and Lana
11:30Ultimates added to it. A lot of people
11:32asking for this content right now. So
11:35there's still learnings on both sides.
11:38Does it contribute to the to the
11:41elevated price of of the US tracks? uh
11:44in part I think historically it does
11:46because I've said to a lot of people
11:48that including our team our team are
11:51very conscious in pricing and when I say
11:54they're very conscious about pricing
11:55there have been many a conversation
11:56internally and different points of view
11:59some people who say we should give all
12:01the tracks for free some people who say
12:03we should charge a premium for them all
12:05and they should be $100 each I'm making
12:06that up it's only me that ask for that
12:09>> and others like yeah um use it you get
12:12those clicks but But the the the real
12:15thing is in a in a middle ground. We've
12:17absorbed a lot of the costs of not just
12:19licensing but everything like the people
12:21comment on why do I have to pay you to
12:24like compete online or you have access
12:27to this feature and we pay for all the
12:29server time. You should see the bills
12:31for these kind of things coming in.
12:33Nobody really cares and I'm not asking
12:35them to care either. I'm just trying to
12:36give the reasoning. Um, our view is if
12:39we invest in this and we spend the money
12:41and we build this world and we make it
12:43accessible, that doesn't mean that we've
12:44dumbed it down. I mean attainable like
12:46you just click a button, you can see the
12:48races, you can join, you can drive on
12:50cool circuits. Nobody cares about what
12:52goes on in the background. Can we serve
12:54it up? Can we make it consistent, easy
12:56to find and engage with? And I think LMU
12:58has gone a long way to ticking that box.
13:01There's more to be done, but I think
13:03we've gone a long way to to simplifying
13:04that, which is why I think it's become
13:06popular in a market that is heavily
13:08saturated with other racing games,
13:10including the giant of iRacing, which
13:13offers something very different. Um, so
13:15we've managed to get LMU's Elbows out
13:17very quickly, but it is a cost and we've
13:19absorbed a lot of that. It's still a
13:21public company. It's still a business.
13:23We do employ people like the features
13:25coming out now like um improving the the
13:28protest system. There's whole like
13:31updates and services and coding that
13:33happens to improve that feature set to
13:36make it easier for us to handle the
13:38protest. And then when we make it easier
13:39to handle the protest, we don't kind of
13:42feed it all into claude or chat GPT.
13:44Now, we've got our own services that
13:46will determine blame, but we're also
13:47hiring people like full-time employees
13:50and contractors to manage the process
13:53systems. like we carry those people and
13:56you know as well as many people that
13:59this company got to the point where we
14:01couldn't afford to manage that. So we're
14:03very conscious of it is a business.
14:06We're conscious of the pricing. It is
14:08elevated for the US tracks. I'm hoping
14:11people will still see it as as valuable.
14:13Um but it's it doesn't mean that prices
14:16won't change in the future. Up, down,
14:18left, right, whatever it may be. We
14:20would look for a a holistic view to make
14:23sure it's attainable because if there is
14:25one thing that we're very conscious of
14:27and I'm I am also very personally
14:29conscious of this is
14:32money is tight for everybody when we're
14:34asking for people to spend their
14:35hard-earned money on things. We're up
14:38against many other
14:41entertainment offerings, subscriptions,
14:44content they want elsewhere, including
14:46just paying your damn bills. Um, so it
14:50is important to us, but uh hopefully
14:53people don't think that we're just
14:54recklessly increasing the prices because
14:56it couldn't be further from the truth.
14:58>> Feel like I touched a nerve there, but
15:00no, I'm I'm acutely aware.
15:01>> It's a recent conversation internally,
15:03so I'm well verssed in it. [laughter]
15:06>> No, I'm I'm acutely aware that um video
15:10games are a business and it is sometimes
15:11very easy to forget that and ultimately
15:13consumers will vote with their wallets.
15:14So, we'll we'll see how it plays out.
15:16Um, and I haven't tried the US tracks
15:19yet as well, so we'll we'll see. We'll
15:20see. Um, final thing, a very small thing
15:24which I'm almost fed up of asking,
15:25right? But I feel I'm going to do it,
15:27which is two years ago I asked about the
15:30Garage 56 NASCAR and you said, "I think
15:32we'll [laughter] get there, but it's not
15:33a priority right now. So, how about
15:35now?"
15:36>> Well, I'm I'm starting to really doubt
15:37my sense of time progression now when,
15:40you know, you said we had these
15:42conversations 2 years ago and the Garage
15:4356 thing was 2 years ago. Where has that
15:46time gone? It was absolutely mad. Um,
15:49>> that's game development.
15:50>> Uh, yeah, there's game development and
15:53you know that we have a public company
15:55which you know pro provides drama for us
15:58every day always keeps us entertained
16:00but um the garage 56 thing without
16:04giving anything away I think is closer
16:08than ever.
16:09>> I'll take that
16:12off.
16:13>> Yeah. [laughter] Okay. It's closer than
16:14ever.
16:17>> Yes, it's closer than it was 2 years
16:18ago. I I think um uh what was what was
16:22the quote I used before 2 years ago?
16:24>> Uh I think we'll get there, but it's not
16:26a priority right now.
16:27>> Oh, I see. I see. I see. Okay. It's
16:29still not a priority, but it's within
16:32reach and we've been working towards it.
16:34How about that?
16:35>> Oh, that's good because uh it's
16:37definitely not unknown and quite
16:38surprising. So, that I think that'll be
16:39a really interesting addition. something
16:42quite uh quite unique.
16:43>> I think it would be cool. That's why we
16:45we started down that path originally. Um
16:48and with the company turn around, it
16:49makes it more appropriate. Although when
16:51we wanted it originally, it would have
16:53been more fitting than it is now. But
16:55there's lots of cool content like that.
16:56You historic and there's things all over
16:59the place that we could add. But I think
17:00that Garage 56 would be cool for Lemon
17:02and we'll try to make it happen.
17:04>> Yeah. I mean, my opinion for what it's
17:06worth, it's something different, but
17:08it's still auto contemporary. So it was
17:102023
17:12uh at 24 Lemon which is the first season
17:14earlier season you have in the game at
17:15the minute. So um yeah it would fit.
17:18Okay. Uh that's a quite interesting
17:20topic. Uh something a bit more nerdy.
17:23I'm going to talk about race and
17:24reliable UDP now. Uh let's go deep into
17:28it. [laughter]
17:28>> No no I I don't I don't really want to.
17:30But um these sort of structural behind
17:33the scenes changes let's say which I
17:35think according to the the press release
17:37for version 1.4 for which is out on the
17:3928th. Um it talks about there won't be
17:42necessarily a huge different or no
17:44difference right now or big new feature
17:45but it's for the future or platforms you
17:47can build upon.
17:48>> Um will these help
17:50>> I don't know the running of like longer
17:52endurance races because so far the 24
17:53races have all been sort of test events
17:55and
17:56>> you know I guess they're
17:59are they done with that in mind or is it
18:01with other features in mind?
18:02>> It's done with that and other things in
18:04mind. Um, you know, a a lot of people,
18:07um,
18:09I'm pleased to say I feel a bit
18:10embarrassed cuz I'm still very English
18:11at the end of the day despite, you know,
18:13what we do. Um, people praise the net
18:16code quite highly and and I think it's
18:18got its place as being one of the
18:20standout elements of not just Lemon, but
18:23obviously our factor 2, which we built
18:24on top of that. Um
18:27but um you changing net code and going
18:30to RUDP is
18:33um hopefully a showcase that will leave
18:36no stone unturned.
18:37>> Yeah.
18:37>> But just because the net code is quite
18:39good and you can race alongside one
18:40another and you don't need to to worry
18:42about getting sent into you know
18:43oblivion. Um that's cool and it's got
18:46it's got its pros and cons because
18:48everybody races within millimeters of
18:50one another now cuz they know they can
18:51get away with it. states one tiny
18:54mistake and then somebody knocks into
18:55you and you're like, "Well, that guy
18:56was, you know, trying to spear me off
18:58into to turn." Well, might not have been
19:00the case, which is why we deal with the
19:02protest and try to elevate that. But the
19:04the net code in some cases, not really
19:06the net code, but the whole system
19:08hasn't been um always as solid as we'd
19:11like for an entitle like this where
19:14people get so heavily invested. And
19:17quite rightly, if you're in a longer
19:18race or even a 20-minute race, if
19:20something happens and it wasn't your
19:22fault or your your network's fault and
19:25it was code related, I think we have a
19:27duty to try and improve those things.
19:31>> Okay. And then I suppose that feeds in
19:33with um hopefully improving, let's say,
19:36the the standard of racing, which can
19:38generally be very good, but obviously
19:39with any online multiplayer, you're
19:41going to get some outliers, right? Uh
19:43you've also got the changes with the
19:44life steward in life steward sorry
19:46rolling out some small elements and then
19:48the pro proto system in 1.4. Is this
19:50also a concerted effort to sort of tidy
19:52things up a bit?
19:53>> Yes, keep pushing it forward. I don't I
19:56don't think it's the end game. Um but we
19:59are conscious of the chatter that we see
20:00online. Um, and as you know, there's
20:04been an influx of new players that come
20:05in into the title and everybody starts
20:08at the the bottom rank. Driving
20:10standards, I mean, sometimes the races
20:13are amazing, but the ones that people
20:15end up talking about, the ones where,
20:16you know,
20:18>> people weren't driving appropriately. I
20:20didn't really care for the rules and
20:22regs. And I think there's there's a
20:25number of things that we end up doing to
20:27improve that. Like investing
20:29in the tech, the infrastructure, and the
20:32people in order to elevate that. We've
20:34already got a very good system, but we
20:36got swamped by the number of protests
20:38that come in. So, we just end up
20:39prioritizing certain things. Um
20:42hopefully people will see that step up.
20:45Um and I think it will be a lot
20:46stronger. But beyond that, I think
20:49there's a greater challenge to find a
20:52way to meaningfully educate our players
20:55on what is expected of them in order to
20:58ensure that there's a fair and
21:00appropriate race environment and compet
21:03healthy competition for all of them.
21:05Um, that's a very long-winded way of
21:07saying we've got to be able to tackle
21:09the problems like directly and hand out
21:12the process so people feel as though
21:13something's being done because there's
21:15nothing worse than kind of keep shouting
21:16on the internet going these guys, you
21:19know, the racing standards are terrible.
21:20We're trying to address that, but I
21:22think there's also a bigger issue around
21:24online racing because it can be in any
21:27title. It's not just Lemon Ultimate, but
21:29hopefully Le Man Ultimate shows that we
21:31we are
21:32>> proactive in trying to address these big
21:34problems that historically people would
21:36go
21:38>> that's that's racing on the internet for
21:40you. Find a private league and and judge
21:43it yourself. That's okay if you want a
21:46small, you know, industry, but we're
21:48trying to do something much broader.
21:50>> Uh, correct me if I'm wrong here. Live
21:53steward was added in 1.2 as like a
21:55behind thescenes thing more than
21:56anything. sort of capturing data and
21:58then in in 1.4 it will be able to
22:00someone station in the track sort of
22:01automatically boot them back to the
22:03garage. But any any bigger plans for
22:05that?
22:06>> Um yeah, it's not it's not so much about
22:08automatically picking people off cuz I
22:10still got a slight fear about a lot of
22:11these automated things.
22:13>> We do have a very complicated service in
22:15the background. It's like it's
22:16controlling our own monster before it's
22:19unleashed. You know, we want to make
22:20sure it's very good. But we've done a
22:21lot of work in the background to make
22:23sure the the the way that the process
22:25are
22:27showcased internally. So the team that
22:29we review is much more efficient. I
22:31don't want to get into the weeds to talk
22:32about how it was, but it was um tried a
22:35lot of people's patience probably and
22:36it's quite slow and cumbersome and to
22:38improve these things which that whole
22:40rfactor tech was never built to do
22:42obviously.
22:44um trying to make it more um manageable
22:46for us I think will deliver a meaningful
22:49change for people. It doesn't mean that
22:52you know from the day that 1.4 is
22:54released that everybody thinks but I'll
22:55put a protest in and I'll get the result
22:57that I want. There's still a lot of
22:58protests coming in and it's clearly
23:00wasn't other person's fault. Yeah,
23:02humans are humans.
23:03>> Um but the infrastructure in the
23:05background I think will be elevated and
23:07it starts to tackle what is a growing
23:09problem in my mind.
23:11>> Okay. Uh that was that was a lot of talk
23:13about driving standards there. I want to
23:15touch upon some rapid fire [snorts]
23:19granular bullet points about features
23:20that people have requested. See if you
23:22can answer these or not. They might be
23:23they might be might not be able to, but
23:24that's fine. We'll give it a go. And
23:25these are all genuine community comments
23:28that were from one of the recent videos
23:29we did about
23:30>> feature requests. Yeah,
23:31>> feature requests. Okay.
23:32>> Mhm.
23:32>> Uh speaking of old Alfactor 2 tech, um
23:35would you ever consider maybe updating
23:37the shadows?
23:38>> So it's too early. um the shadows.
23:42>> Some people complain about flickering
23:44and popping, but obviously it's not, you
23:45know, a huge priority, I don't think.
23:47>> Yes, of course we would. I mean, it
23:49actually has come up in conversation for
23:50some of us as well. Um and also just to
23:54be very clear, there's a variety of
23:55machines inside the office as well. Some
23:56people super rig, some people with
23:58toasters, and we we get to see
24:00everything. But yes, we would. I don't
24:01think that's priority, but it's it's
24:04painful. Yeah. Uh
24:05>> one person did ask for sort of an
24:07on-screen weather radar.
24:10which I think you can get like Gran
24:11Turismo and iRacing to an extent.
24:14>> Yeah. Yeah. I I personally might people
24:16might shoot me down. I'd say I probably
24:18wouldn't do the weather radar in a
24:20traditional sense for the player that's
24:22driving. We take a slightly different
24:24view of trying to build the team and
24:26having a support crew with you. So, it
24:28wouldn't be a priority, but I probably
24:29wouldn't put it first and foremost for
24:31the player.
24:32>> Yeah, that's fair. Um, I think this is
24:34one thing that is coming, but is there
24:36an update on driver swaps in
24:39private/hosted server events? So,
24:41outside of the special events that you
24:43put on?
24:44>> Uh, yes. I mean, that's that's a
24:46constant um subject of the conversation
24:48internally as well. I I think we would
24:50provide that at some point. And um we're
24:54not adverse to doing those kind of
24:55things. Uh so, yes, why not?
24:59>> Okay, why not? Cool. Um, I think this
25:03has been asked 7,000 times, but I'm
25:05doing it again because
25:06>> comments. Um, thoughts on virtual safety
25:10cars, fullc cost yellows and safety
25:11cars.
25:13>> Uh, also a subject that is discussed um,
25:16fairly regularly internally. I think we
25:20would um, probably add them um, in the
25:25tale of LMU. And that's my long-winded
25:28way of saying not immediately because
25:30there's a bunch of educ edge cases to
25:32sort out and I've also been here before
25:34with other titles. It is not as simple
25:36as you think. You know, by just shoving
25:39that stuff in has has a lot of um
25:41knock-on effects, but we do discuss it
25:43and I think we could work towards that
25:45if we thought it was compelling or our
25:47solution is compelling enough for
25:48players.
25:49>> Okay. Thank you. And then final one of
25:51these. Um you always see uh mixed
25:54reports about force feedback. I suppose
25:56an element is everyone has well not
25:58everyone but there's a many different
25:59steering wheels out there and it's not
26:01just as simple as oh we'll just turn on
26:02force feedback now there we go it works
26:05but is that something that you the team
26:07are continually looking at to refine and
26:10see all the comments about uh different
26:12wheels not performing in different ways
26:14to or what people might
26:17>> we do we do um there's a regular like a
26:20community feedback group that presents
26:23what they've managed to colleate online
26:25and you you know, people aren't afraid
26:26to say what they think online. Um, that
26:29gets presented back into the team cuz I
26:31think we should always have our finger
26:32on the pulse and FFB wheels and
26:35everything else does get discussed and
26:36of course we talk to the manufacturers
26:38about them as well. And sometimes
26:40there's some long-winded investigations
26:42on why is this happening on this type of
26:44wheel and it doesn't happen on this one
26:46like you know because sometimes there's
26:49the mix of the hardware's software that
26:52tries to interface with LMU and vice
26:54versa and there's a conflict somewhere
26:56and we don't get the results that we're
26:58expecting and again there's a wide
27:00variety of wheels and and hardware
27:02that's that utilizes across the studio.
27:04So, we bring our own pain points to the
27:06table as well, but it does get
27:07discussed. It isn't overlooked. We want
27:10everybody to have a magical experience.
27:12Sometimes we don't control all of it
27:13ourselves.
27:15>> Cool. We'll see how uh things progress
27:16on that. Um let us know in the comments
27:19actually which wheel you're using if
27:20you're what you think of the force
27:21feedback on LMU. Uh okay. I'm going to
27:24sort of as we enter the latter third of
27:26this interview now, I'm going to go big
27:27picture. So, uh or or yeah, so well less
27:31granular than will there be a weather
27:33radar. Um so so uh the career mode it's
27:37happening that we've seen uh you know
27:39menus moving and still images. What's
27:42the progress on that?
27:44>> Um
27:47slow but steady. Um the career mode is
27:51something I care a great deal about as
27:53the rest of the team because
27:57I treat it more than just chaining the
27:59races together in championship mode that
28:00sometimes people ask us for. Um, we
28:03could do that, but we're so down far
28:05down the road with career mode. I' I'd
28:07like to make sure that we deliver that.
28:08Um,
28:12I think it's progressing and we'll have
28:15it and you're not going to get the scoop
28:16that we've just dropped it. Um, we're
28:19not dropping career mode and and LMU.
28:21There's your headline.
28:22>> Okay.
28:22>> Career mode and LMU not dropped.
28:24>> The end. It's still a thing. Yeah.
28:26People are still working on it. We're
28:28still paying money towards building it.
28:30Um there is progress there and I've just
28:33come back from vacation actually and one
28:34of the things I wanted to look at when I
28:35got back was was career mode and a bunch
28:37of materials was provided to me um that
28:40I haven't had had chance to look through
28:42yet but I'm very cautious about career
28:45mode because um we all want it to be
28:48decent and it's actually fairly easy to
28:51just bash a career mode out and just go
28:54here you go tick the box and maybe we've
28:57done that with a couple of features in
28:58the past that maybe I've pushed in
29:00things like the the co-op mode. Um,
29:04I want to do this carefully. I'm very
29:06excited about career mode because I
29:09think some of the design talent that
29:11we've got internally is able to convey
29:14the kind of experience I want people to
29:15have in career mode. But when you when
29:17you look beyond the obvious,
29:20what a career mode requires um utilizes
29:23the high points of our AI where you can
29:25have great races, but you've got to make
29:26sure that's consistent across the season
29:29that you're in, the number of races.
29:31Otherwise, it starts to break this
29:32immersion of they were great here,
29:35something messed up here, and they fell
29:36over there or made the wrong pit stop.
29:40So the whole game has got to be very
29:42strong in order to offer up that
29:44immersion of career mode. Um beyond just
29:47the pretty like the UI screens that you
29:49see and the VO that you'll have in there
29:51and the the targets you were given. All
29:54of that stuff is really exciting when
29:55you design it, but you got to make sure
29:57the whole service works um to provide
30:00the magic and that's a big area of f
30:03focus for us at the moment, which
30:04tempers my it's coming out tomorrow type
30:07um you know natural inclination.
30:10Uh so did I answer the question? It's in
30:13progress
30:14>> kind of.
30:15>> We're we're we're pushing it along but
30:17I'm not going to give you a release
30:18date.
30:19>> No. Well, I didn't expect one. I would
30:21have asked. [laughter]
30:23Is it coming out? When's it coming out?
30:24But obviously, you know, so so it's it's
30:26it's happening, but it'll be released
30:28when it's ready or when you deem it to
30:30be ready.
30:31>> Yeah. Yeah. We're still hopeful that it
30:33will be, you know, inside this year, I
30:35think, the team been talking about, but
30:37um I really want it to be fully playable
30:41ourselves internally. um because it's
30:44it's not a fire and forget feature, you
30:47know, and the cycle of LMU at the moment
30:49with console coming out next year. Korea
30:52career needs to be a part of that in
30:53order to make it more of a game. You
30:55know, we've got the sim underpinnings,
30:57but career, I think, is a big step
30:59forward that would hopefully massively
31:00elevate the appeal of single player. And
31:03from a business point of view, the CEO
31:05is saying career mode will be valuable
31:08for us financially because it gives a
31:09long tail to the to the product. So, we
31:12do want it.
31:13>> Um, I think there's just a bit more work
31:15to be done there.
31:17>> Yeah. Well, that's that's fine. Again,
31:19that's game development. Um, I still
31:21think it will be a strong addition if
31:23it's as as good as you say it will be,
31:25hopefully. Um, is the co-op mode, I
31:29think, is quite interesting. Is that
31:30something that gets good player
31:32engagement?
31:34>> Um, not huge. And I I think there's a
31:38number of reasons for that. I think um
31:42I don't think we always showcase what's
31:44available in there. A lot of people talk
31:45about, you know, the daily racing or
31:47maybe jumping into the championships. Um
31:50not much else gets coverage because I I
31:52don't think we as a company necessarily
31:54market that. There actually isn't really
31:58a marketing department inside motorport
32:00games. There hasn't been for a long
32:02time. There are some, you know, people
32:04who are driving that change there. You
32:07know, we talked earlier about Lewis
32:09who's a superstar on our team. Um, he
32:11doesn't have like a team to like run
32:13this whole thing for him. So, we are
32:16always pushing the the boulder up the
32:17hill. And I don't think we do a great
32:19deal of showcasing the availability of
32:22those kind of things to a wide range of
32:24players that it's like people who, you
32:26know, go and buy a Ferrari and then
32:28drive it to the shops and back. It's
32:30great and it can do that job. Um, but
32:33co-op I don't think is necessarily
32:35intertwined with the product so well or
32:37promoted
32:38>> and I don't think we necessarily need to
32:39do that right now because people are
32:41enjoying the main features of the game
32:43which you know LMU is still
32:44predominantly an online racing game and
32:47easy access competition against other
32:49people. Um,
32:51but it doesn't mean that co-op wouldn't
32:52have its place in the future. And maybe
32:54it gets stronger over time with the
32:55addition of career mode because we'll
32:57bring more people in who are afraid of
32:58the online competition. We don't want to
33:00ruin the races for other people that
33:02love the single player stuff. And then
33:03they say to the friends, "This is cool.
33:05Oh, we can do co-op, a championship
33:06together.
33:07>> Maybe it changes over time. I wouldn't
33:09lose sleep if it wasn't heavily used.
33:12Still believed it's a good feature,
33:14>> but maybe we prioritize other things."
33:16>> Yeah. And then um final point on let's
33:20say single player content. Is it still
33:22the hard and fast rule that it's career
33:24but we're not going to do like a single
33:26player championship mode?
33:29>> Uh I wouldn't say it's hard and fast.
33:31I'd say we moved so far beyond the um
33:34single player championship mode that
33:36career would come first.
33:37>> Um
33:39I I'm not against putting it in. It's
33:41just that focus is really important. One
33:43of the biggest strengths of LMU is that
33:45for so long we focused on just doing
33:47lemon stuff and wet.
33:49>> And it's the same for the career mode
33:51cuz it's very easy to bloat and you
33:53start going, "Oh, well, we'll just chuck
33:55that in and we'll put this in and" and
33:57then you get to the point where you go,
33:58"Do you know what? This is massive.
33:59We'll drop it." I don't want to do that.
34:02Um, so we'll get career mode together
34:04and maybe there'll be an element of that
34:05that would enable you to just do a
34:06simple championship mode, but we need
34:09everything else in place first.
34:11>> Fair. Uh, you mentioned
34:14consoles coming next year. I think
34:15that's what you said earlier. I have to
34:17rewind the tape, but uh, what's what's
34:19the progress update on the PlayStation 5
34:21and Xbox Series SNX uh, versions of Lum
34:23Ultimate?
34:25>> I mean, it's difficult for me to say,
34:27you know, definitively for for the
34:29public because we haven't announced
34:30information, but it's going it's it's
34:33going along quite smoothly. There still
34:36seem to be the reason I asked I'm sorry
34:37to interrupt is there's still confusion
34:39I see in our comments of
34:40>> oh is it even coming to console you know
34:43but it will happen right
34:45>> it will happen it's coming to console I
34:47think because again we haven't got into
34:48that marketing phase
34:50>> because there are some milestones that
34:51we get through like there's there's a
34:53big key one this year um and then we
34:55start ramping up probably that marketing
34:57effort for console arriving that's when
35:00it will probably feel more real to
35:02people
35:02>> because when they've just said it on a
35:04great vine I've done a couple of videos
35:05going, "Yeah, we're bringing it to
35:06console." I'm sure a lot of people go,
35:08"Yeah, right. Believe it when I see it."
35:11Um, but you know, internally we have,
35:14you know, we don't work on it
35:15proactively ourselves 24/7. It's an
35:18external development team, but we've
35:19got, you know, dev kits coming to our
35:21studio right now for our QA team to, you
35:24know, start quantifying this and and
35:26having oversight on it. Our developers,
35:29you know, assist on things and review
35:32the deliverables. Um, so it's very much
35:35in progress and we've also as a public
35:36company declared it's coming. It's just
35:39we haven't started that marketing
35:40campaign right now.
35:43>> Yeah, I mean that I think that makes
35:44sense. Um,
35:46>> but it's good to get confirmation again.
35:50>> Yeah, it's it's coming and we'll
35:52hopefully get a whole new new group of
35:54players in who are not seen as, you
35:56know, the the the, you know,
35:59>> the arcade players. But I I I say to
36:01everybody, I think there's a ton of
36:03players out there who can't afford to go
36:04down the rabbit hole of getting a PC,
36:06getting the GPU, you know, getting a
36:09monitor set up, getting the wheel, the
36:12rig, and everything else that goes with
36:13with this hobby if you want to go all
36:15in. But being able to get, you know, a
36:18machine for a few hundred if you buy it
36:20secondhand and then driving a proper
36:22simulator in my mind would be pretty
36:24cool. I don't think it's going to be,
36:26you know, the next um GTA's numbers, but
36:30let's get a proper sim into the hands of
36:32people on console and um
36:34>> let's see if LMU resonates and I'm sure
36:36it will.
36:37>> Yeah, if it's if it's executed
36:40in a decent way, that is well, that's
36:42such a generic uh sentiment there, then
36:45I think there is a market there. I think
36:46you look at the Gran Turismo sales
36:47numbers and you look at some of the
36:49challenges other games have had in
36:51porting across from PC to console. I
36:53think there is a there's a market there.
36:55Um
36:57it's just about how well it is and we'll
36:59find out next year hopefully. Uh
37:01>> yeah. Yeah.
37:02>> So I mean we touched upon,
37:04you know, the multiplayer there and
37:07career mode and recent changes and
37:10console versions and the US tracks, but
37:12just sort of sort of to round off
37:14things, are there any particular goals
37:18for the company and Lemon Ultimate for
37:20the rest of this year or into next year?
37:23What would you like to see?
37:25>> How How do I explain that without giving
37:27anything away? Because I'm always
37:29slightly further ahead of the curve. I
37:30can't remember where we are today and
37:32where we're going tomorrow. So, there'll
37:33be a misstep and then I'll get a phone
37:35call from Lewis going, "How dare you
37:37announce this?" Um, for me, it's
37:39actually delivering on, you know, this
37:411.4 four that's upcoming. Bedding in
37:44those features, delivering more of the
37:46content so that people people can enjoy
37:48the game and actually just taking a long
37:51hard look at the overall service cuz
37:53we're doing a lot of stuff, a lot of
37:54investment in the background. I mean, we
37:56could talk for hours about that. Um,
37:59>> please do
38:00>> to make Yeah. Well, to make to make this
38:02like a your your your viewers would
38:05would would switch off very quickly
38:06because it would get very tedious. But
38:08there's a there's a lot of like um
38:10investment in the background to make
38:12this service as we pretty much call it
38:15internally without sounding like a CEO
38:17like
38:19strong
38:21um valuable entertaining for people
38:24accessible. You know, I always go we
38:27didn't just build the game. We we built
38:29the game. Yes. off the the the the
38:32bedrock of RF factor 2 which had its own
38:34pros and cons and we separated from that
38:36tech and we did some new stuff around MU
38:38and we keep improving the core
38:40technology. We're adding more content,
38:42more features. The team hasn't grown
38:44massively. It's still, you know, by
38:45today's standards a very small team. We
38:48are hiring people cuz I can't dine out
38:50on we're a small team forever, but we
38:53still are a boutique software developer.
38:55I want to see more of those things
38:56bedded in. I really want to see this
38:58proper 24-hour race um come to fruition.
39:02I would love to bring back um Lemon
39:04Virtual because I think that's going to
39:06be a high point and we're you know
39:08probably I'm personally professionally
39:10embarrassed that it's taken us a bit of
39:12time to get there. Um but you know then
39:16the London virtual will happen. We'll
39:18have console version out and we are
39:21starting to look at what comes in the
39:23future. Does that mean we can expand LMU
39:25some more? Bear in mind it's a joint
39:27venture with somebody else. Um that may
39:30have some limitations. Do we start
39:32building something else? Do we add more
39:33things to the race control platform?
39:35Because I think race control is really
39:36big for us as well. People don't
39:38appreciate how much work goes on in the
39:39background to get that service running.
39:42Um
39:43yeah, I think what I'm trying to say is
39:47we got a long way to go. I don't think
39:49it's about throwing more features in
39:50right now beyond what everybody already
39:52knows. I think it's about bedding things
39:53in and and really elevating this
39:56experience so it's as professional and
39:58consistent as a stable as possible and
40:01we run these long races
40:03and then you know console arrives and
40:07then I think we'll be explaining where
40:09we go as a company next.
40:11>> Yeah, hopefully in November, right?
40:13Because on the previous earning call you
40:14said we have a product road map and uh
40:17we'll discuss it more in detail on the
40:18Q3 earnings call. So
40:20>> yeah, but when the road map comes out
40:22and it says, you know, project two, it
40:24doesn't give much away.
40:25>> No, no, but at least it would confirm
40:28there's a project two.
40:29>> Yes, that's that's very true. Yeah. And
40:31everybody's expecting us to do an RFA 3
40:34or, you know, do the iRacing killer or
40:37something like this. Like we're not
40:38trying to kill anybody else's project
40:41off. Um we we be we build our own things
40:44that we believe um people would enjoy
40:47playing cuz we would play them as well.
40:49Um, but obviously LMU's got a narrow
40:52focus and I think there's some other
40:54cool things when you look at like the
40:55experience of driving the cars, managing
40:57the tires, all this kind of stuff, how
40:59easy it is to get into online races. If
41:01you could transplant that into another
41:03environment, then there's lots of
41:05exciting things we'd love to do. Um, and
41:08people inevitably approach us all the
41:10time as to, can you take this license?
41:12Would you be interested in doing this in
41:13future? Would you like to make these
41:14things? Are you interested in building a
41:16quad bike racing game? Not really, you
41:18know, but because LMU has been so
41:21attractive, people come to us all the
41:23time and say, would you like to do this?
41:24I don't even know if we need to do a
41:26licensed product next. We might do
41:27something else with the licenses in it
41:29so that we could build the world around
41:32endurance racing and LMU with a slightly
41:34different brand. But, you know, 2 years
41:37ago, I'm not sure we would even consider
41:39having this conversation because it was
41:42about fixing the company and delivering
41:43a game that people would want to play,
41:45let alone pay for.
41:48>> The offers are coming in now.
41:49>> Challenge.
41:50>> Yeah,
41:50>> the offers the offers are coming in, but
41:52we say no to like 99% of themes.
41:55>> LMU is clearly the focus.
41:57>> Yeah,
41:58>> I think it's a big mistake you turn down
41:59the quad back game to be honest.
42:01>> Yeah, possibly, possibly. Or maybe it's
42:03just a slight of hand and really we're
42:05about to announce it in November. You'll
42:06see. [clears throat]
42:07>> Yeah, there we go. That's it. [laughter]
42:09>> Uh actually, I was I wasn't going to um
42:12end on this note, but you you mentioned
42:13it, so I'll pick you up on it. So, uh
42:15the sim let's say the pro sim racing
42:18esports scene, if you want to call it
42:19that, has changed immeasurably over the
42:21last couple of years. Uh but you did
42:23mention there still ideas to do
42:25something lemon virtual related.
42:29>> Yeah. I mean it's not not because I
42:30think we have to do it to to save the
42:32scene. You know the scene is what it is.
42:35You know co co you know everybody at
42:38home and there were lots of series and
42:40there was a bit of hangover after that
42:42and yeah there's a massive downturn but
42:44that's cuz other games have changed as
42:45well like you know the guys at Kunos
42:49dropping
42:50you know ACC which I thought still had a
42:53lot left in it if they wanted to focus
42:54on that but they've made a hard decision
42:56and people have to from time to time.
42:57have done the same things. They've
42:59walked away from that and started
43:00building something else and feel as
43:02though that's died out a little bit. But
43:04loads of people are like online racing
43:05in
43:07>> LMU, streaming in LMU. Um, which which
43:10is great to see.
43:13But our plan was always to have Lemon
43:15Virtual back in the in the frame,
43:17especially when we transferred to moving
43:20away from our Factor 2 and focusing on
43:22LMU. to not have lemon virtual when
43:25we've got the official game now would be
43:28mad in my mind. Um so we have to bring
43:31that back but but historically it it
43:35also ran at a massive loss and um it's
43:39kind of dumb from a business sense. Um I
43:41think we're in a position now where it
43:44works for for two things. Um, one
43:47because it's a thank you to the
43:49community and I would like to make it
43:51not just for the for the elite drivers
43:53who are great to watch, but also have to
43:55have more tears for for a lot of people
43:57in there. Just like our most of our
43:59players are in the bronze category that
44:01everybody discusses all the time. Not
44:02everybody's got the time to dedicate to
44:04it. But we want to make Lemon Virtual,
44:06you know, open to everybody and a great
44:08festival for sim racing and and esports,
44:11not just pro esports, but esports. Um,
44:14and also it's a great marketing vehicle
44:15for the product. So, it stands to reason
44:17that we'd want to bring it back. Will
44:19that fix the scene? I don't think so,
44:21but it will be our contribution and I
44:23think it will be a fitting contribution
44:24when it arrives.
44:26>> All right. Well, looking forward to
44:27that. Um because I do think uh things
44:30have been uh a bit shallow without it
44:33because it was um you know despite its
44:36challenges it did have incredible
44:38production levels and you know sort of a
44:41it was exciting without the need for
44:42half a million of prize money. So um
44:45yeah see how
44:47>> see how it goes. And
44:48>> prize money gave you the rubber stamp
44:50but um
44:51>> of course
44:51>> but also I told everybody to just focus
44:53on making sure the game is good
44:55>> rather than just doing the show. So, it
44:58it will happen at the right time.
45:01>> Wonderful. Okay. Well, looking forward
45:03to trying out the uh US Tracks uh the
45:051.4 update. Um I mean, everyone's
45:09probably got all the information by now,
45:10but it is on the traction.gg website and
45:11the Lemon Ultimate website, I'm sure.
45:14And uh yeah, good luck with the recent
45:16upcoming updates. And thank you for your
45:18time.
45:19>> Thank you very much. It's always a
45:20pleasure. Thank you, Tom. And thank you
45:22to everybody at Traction. And hopefully
45:24I managed to answer at least some of
45:26your questions. Might not be too vague,
45:28but yeah.
45:29>> Yeah, we didn't get the
45:30>> about the interviewer technique, isn't
45:32it?
45:32>> I know it.
45:33>> I didn't I didn't get the uh the quad
45:36bike game out there, but anyway, we'll
45:38try next time.
45:39>> All right. Good stuff. Thank you so
45:40much.
45:40>> Thank you.

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