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KVIFF 2025 – KVIFF Talks – Michel Franco (ENG) — Transcript

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0:00Okay. Hello everyone. Good morning. Uh
0:03my name is Paval Slutki. I'm a Czech
0:05film critic and journalist and I'm very
0:07pleased that I can host this quiff talk
0:10with Michel Franco. Thank you very much
0:12for coming back to Carlo. Thank you. I
0:14had a great experience last year
0:16presenting memory and I was very happy
0:19to receive an an invitation for uh this
0:23year to present uh dreams. It's one of
0:26the best festivals, the best audience,
0:29good film. So, gorgeous place. So, I'm
0:32happy. I'm lucky to be here.
0:35How many films have you seen so far?
0:37I My average is one a day. I I'm not one
0:41of those, you know, that can watch four
0:45movies a day like Sergey Loitz. Every
0:48time we meet, he's his s four movies a
0:51day. I'm a one once enough. If there's
0:54two that I really want to see and
0:55there's space between them, then I can
0:58Yeah.
1:01Um, in the very beginning, I would like
1:03to remind you that uh we would be happy
1:06for your comments or questions uh as we
1:09proceed. So, you don't need to wait for
1:11some time in the very end of uh this
1:14talk. Just uh give us a sign and ask
1:17your question. There is one straight
1:19away. Okay, let's go. Uh yes, we might
1:23hunt the microphone.
1:27No microphone is coming.
1:30I just have a followup. Why can't you uh
1:32watch one film more than one film a day?
1:35It's because you have to kind of like uh
1:38experience it, you know, have it in your
1:41height or is it because you're just busy
1:44with other things?
1:45Mainly I'm busy with other stuff. Um uh
1:49always when I'm asked uh how how I
1:52succeed to make a film a year roughly or
1:56I every year and a half the answer is I
1:59I have to stop doing other things both
2:02personal stuff and and and things that I
2:05would enjoy to do and and I'm now
2:08writing something new and I'm yeah most
2:12of my mind is it becomes a very selfish
2:15process too where where I'm looking more
2:18in than than out of my mind. Uh but
2:22you're also right when you say like if
2:25I'm satisfied with a film, then you know
2:28that's like I had a good meal and I'm
2:30not hungry anymore for the rest of the
2:32day. But but of course here if if
2:35there's two things that I really want to
2:37watch and then of course there's a
2:38promotion of dreams. Uh that does take
2:41some some time and energy and meeting
2:44friends. Yeah.
2:46But I I I I wish I could I would have
2:50seen more movies, you know, at at the
2:52end, I'm always when when a person like
2:55Serge Loits tells me that he saw 24
2:57movies, I'm a little uh uh jealous. On
3:01the other hand, I'm I'm I'm here for
3:03many days for the whole festival. So,
3:05you know, I slowly watched a number of
3:08films. My name is Paul Hudson from
3:11Germany and I saw your film Dreams here
3:15and I have a question regarding Dreams.
3:18Shoot.
3:19I did not quite understand why she found
3:23it necessary in the end to break his
3:25legs.
3:26Oh, don't spoil the end.
3:29Come on.
3:30But yeah, but she could touch she could
3:32just have left him.
3:35Uh
3:36so why was it necessary for her to do
3:38this?
3:39Well uh oh yeah of course she could have
3:42just left or she could have not uh do
3:46what she did to him before in the film.
3:48Uh the other nasty things she did but uh
3:52well that's how people are you know we
3:54did you for example I I'll try to answer
3:56with another movie. Did you like did you
3:59see Seno from Bisconti?
4:01You remember that one?
4:02No.
4:02No. Well, at the end of Seno, the the
4:05main character does something
4:08equivalent, even worse than what my
4:09character we we often hurt the people we
4:12love, and that fascinates me. Uh,
4:16troubles me, and I think she truly loves
4:19him, and that's that's
4:22I probably why you have a hard time
4:24accepting it. Uh but she hurts him
4:27because she's she loves him and she's
4:30truly hurt because there's real love and
4:33passion. And of course uh the film deals
4:36with a destructive toxic relationship
4:39that escalates unfortunately until that
4:43uh to that degree. I discuss it with
4:45Jessica. Um she was very in favor of it
4:50uh since she read the script. Uh
4:54I'm not sure now if if if if on the
4:57draft she read uh it was her decision or
5:00the brother's decision, but I do
5:03remember that she said there's no
5:05question about it. I I want to be the
5:07one that Yeah.
5:09Well, she is asked by her brother
5:11whether she wants it and she wants it.
5:13He asked, "What do you want?" Uh she
5:15could have said nothing. Let's just
5:16leave.
5:17She Yeah, exactly.
5:18Well, that's love. Love, love, I mean
5:20love can turn into a destructive uh
5:23force very quickly. Unfortunately,
5:26I was wondering whether the reason is
5:29that he crossed some boundary
5:33because there's of course uh power
5:37uh uh their relationship is based on her
5:41power not on his power.
5:43Yeah.
5:44But in the end he takes the power. Well,
5:47maybe that is the reason why she found
5:49it appropriate
5:51that he crossed the boundary.
5:53I think you're right. You just explained
5:54it on a better way than than than I did.
5:58Uh it's that that's the logic behind it
6:01for sure. But there's two ways to see
6:03it. There's the passionate that that's
6:05what that the how I replied and then
6:08there's the logic and and you're right
6:11of on this power dynamics the stakes are
6:14higher and he crossed the line but she
6:16crossed the line before and so
6:17of course all the time
6:19but she she thought she has right to do
6:21so
6:22because he's from he's from a he's
6:26underprivileged because he's Mexican and
6:28she's American
6:29and there comes
6:30that's the whole immigration
6:32exactly issue There comes the other
6:34layer of the film of course that that I
6:37like people figuring out for themselves
6:39but there's a relationship between the
6:41two countries of course where one is on
6:43top of the other and we know the score
6:46we know who's on top. Yeah. Yeah. Thank
6:50you.
6:51I might even broaden the question. Is
6:53crossing boundaries uh one of your
6:56long-term topics? it might be seen um in
6:59a general sense in other films of yours
7:03as well, right? I never do it just for
7:06the sake of it or or that should never
7:08be the case. But I can say that movies
7:11that I enjoy and and books that I enjoy,
7:13the writers that that are my favorite
7:16writers often uh push their characters
7:19to extremes and to the limits because I
7:22think that's when we learn more about
7:24human nature and about how our society
7:26works. So I'm not shy about it. Uh
7:32it's sometimes interesting. For example,
7:34when when I gave to Lorenzo, my good
7:38friend uh and colleague, director, we
7:41produce films together. When he read the
7:43draft for New Order, he told me, "You're
7:47overdoing the end." Uh he recommended to
7:50shoot an alternative ending in case I
7:53was going too far. And I told him,
7:55"You're missing the whole point. It has
7:58to go all the way because that's the
8:00nature of this movie. Uh, and I'm glad I
8:02did. Of course.
8:04Your question.
8:08Hi, Christina from The Upcoming in
8:10London. Um, I have a question about the
8:12movie as well. So, what inspired you to
8:15choose ballet as the art form?
8:19It was I had the the idea the the idea
8:22to make this film for many years and it
8:25I always felt that it lacked something
8:28and when we were shooting memory uh on a
8:31lunch break I wasn't planning on but
8:34suddenly I was pitching or talking to
8:37Jessica about the film and she liked it.
8:40So then I took it seriously like okay
8:42this is the next film I have to write it
8:44and still something was lacking and then
8:47I met Isak Hernandez the dancer who's
8:49not an actor he's considered the best uh
8:52dancer in the world and I thought that
8:55that would bring an additional layer and
8:57it would um somehow make this character
9:02more particular and
9:05it he's still a illegal immigrant but
9:09but uh with an interesting side to him
9:13because he's a very talented uh person.
9:17So I just I I just fell in love with
9:20ballet quickly easily. I'm not an expert
9:23on it at all. So I also saw it like as
9:26the opportunity to learn uh about that
9:29world. And then what's also interesting
9:32and and something that I like about
9:35being a writer, director, producer is
9:38that originally the film was set on
9:41Texas. It was a story that would take
9:44play on place take place on Texas for a
9:48very simple reason. That's like where
9:51you would obviously run into this type
9:53of characters and and and xenophobia and
9:57anti- Mexican uh you know feelings and
10:03Issach was the main dancer at the time
10:05in at the San Francisco Ballet Company.
10:07And I thought I'll make my life easier
10:09and I'll just use Isach's life in San
10:13Francisco and the uh company the ballet
10:16company uh which was very easy to do.
10:20And then I had to have that interesting
10:21conversation again with Jessica which
10:23was Teas and San Francisco are
10:26completely opposite. San Francisco is
10:27supposed to be a Democrat liberal. And
10:30she immediately she's very clever. She
10:32said this is more interesting. This is
10:33less obvious because you know it's easy
10:36to say I'm red, I'm blue, I'm better,
10:38I'm and it's not that uh simple. You
10:42know when when people are tested you
10:44might think you're a certain thing and
10:46then you surprise yourself uh by
10:48betraying the values that you supposedly
10:51uh promote.
10:53Thank you.
10:54Thank you.
10:57Let's go for another question here.
11:02Sorry, I have to return to to the
11:04question of the gentleman over there
11:06because I find it interesting that um in
11:09this conversation between the two of
11:11you, you kind of omit the fact that that
11:14the man violates the woman and and I'm
11:18sorry, I just kind of um upsets me
11:21actually that it's not talked about. And
11:23for some people that that um scene did
11:27not or like they felt uneasy about it
11:30that it was actually in the film. Um
11:33that uh the character went that way and
11:36I was wondering if you can talk about it
11:38a little like what what was the um yeah
11:42what was the logic? Uh well again of
11:45course that's a big mistake the
11:46character does a thing that's completely
11:48wrong and that that I guess is a point
11:52of no return and that is a quick answer
11:55to why they do what it you know the the
11:58the stakes keep getting higher and it's
12:01a destructive relationship but they do
12:03that to him because he did that to her.
12:06Um
12:09uh
12:11when I was writing the script, I just
12:13found that that was what the characters
12:16did. I I always know when I'm writing a
12:20script, what's the end of the story? I
12:22know where where, you know, the
12:24beginning and the ending, but I try to
12:28leave a lot of space for the characters
12:30to show me what should happen on the
12:32writing process. And that scene seem
12:35that the scene seem unavo impossible to
12:38avoid. Uh, interesting interestingly
12:41enough, Jessica was she immediately
12:44understood why and she agreed on it. Uh,
12:49Isach had a much harder time doing it
12:52and playing it. not only playing it
12:55because the the whole physicality for
12:57him easy because he's a ballad dancer
13:00but he didn't want to do it morally it
13:03it it challenged him and it's also his
13:06first movie pretty much so for an actor
13:08with that's not an actor it was even
13:10harder I
13:13I felt that it was correct
13:16uh I mean not correct that that that it
13:18was the right thing for the film on on
13:20two levels one that that this couple
13:23after she confesses what she did to him.
13:26Um
13:29the destructive uh dynamic, you know, it
13:34just couldn't be stopped. Uh and that
13:37mirrors again what happens between the
13:39two countries. But I want to believe
13:42that that everything that they do to
13:44each other is because of their own uh
13:49feelings and reasons, wrong reasons. and
13:51they make they these mistakes. Uh and
13:55then the relationship between the two
13:58countries should be something secondary
14:00an additional layer than that some
14:03members of the audience might uh go for
14:05or not.
14:07I hope I answered it. It it's also um
14:12unpleasant for me. Uh
14:15but again then I go to those books, you
14:18know, like pretty much any dstovski book
14:20where characters simply do wrong and and
14:23to me it's interesting if it's
14:26interesting, not just for the sake of
14:28it. Um,
14:32I also know that that on that that that
14:36making films nowadays
14:38uh that challenge the audience in in
14:41this type of way is harder than before,
14:44harder than 10 years ago and than 20
14:46years ago. And I find something
14:50appealing into not surrendering as as a
14:52film director into saying well times
14:55change. So so let's make everything
14:58easier. You know what I mean?
15:02Just just to uh add more culture. When I
15:05watched the film I didn't have the
15:06feeling that was wrong. like I actually
15:08thought it was um maybe for him it was
15:12probably the only way he knew how he he
15:14this was the way that he can really hurt
15:16her and did it. Um but right now when I
15:20got upset I actually got upset more
15:22about the conversation about it and
15:24about this like what she did to him
15:26without talking what uh uh he did to her
15:30and and the person who told me that they
15:32were uncomfortable with the scene was
15:34actually a man. So
15:36the person that said what
15:37the the audience member who told me he
15:40was uncomfortable with the scene was
15:42actually a man. So that was all very
15:45interesting to me and right now
15:47upsetting. I don't know why but anyway
15:49this just to give more color.
15:51Well that mirrors also in a way what I'm
15:54what I'm telling you about Jessica being
15:56more uh it was easier for her to shoot
15:58than than for him. Um
16:02I'm glad you're having you know you know
16:05still dealing with the movie uh a couple
16:07of days after that. That's for me that's
16:10uh a big compliment.
16:14It's interesting that you mentioned
16:16dstvki in this context uh because crime
16:18and punishment starts with a brutal act
16:22and then the whole book follows and now
16:24we are discussing some brutal ending of
16:26of your film. So could you comment a
16:30little bit further on this maybe on your
16:32relationship to dsttovski or literature
16:36in general?
16:37Uh yes when when when
16:41filmmakers
16:42uh script writers uh ask me you know
16:48what what tip what what how to become a
16:51better writer. I'm like just read. But
16:53they don't read. It's crazy how people
16:55don't read. I mean, and and it's
16:57impossible for me to understand how
16:58anyone would have a true appetite for
17:00writing if they're not readers. I'm not
17:03the the I wish I could read like my
17:05older sister that reads a book every
17:07week. Uh I'm a kind of a slow reader,
17:11but uh you know, I just finished uh
17:13Karamasov Brothers and and I can steal
17:17so much from these books, you know, I
17:20was just saying in that straightforward
17:21way. It it's inspiring, you know. It it
17:24it it it it makes you it makes me as a
17:27writer as a script writer because I'm
17:29not a true writer you know I would never
17:31publish a book but it makes me want to
17:34become a better script writer. Uh and
17:36does insight into
17:40uh you know the the the the mind and
17:43human nature and the the dark side of us
17:45and also the positive sides. Um
17:49I mean he's the best writer and then
17:50there's story of course and and there's
17:52many more. or I love Philip Roth. I'm re
17:55reading now for the third time American
17:58Pastoral. Uh and I I also enjoy how good
18:02they are with words. Uh that that has
18:06nothing to do with cinema. So that's a
18:08separate joy. Uh above all, I love
18:12music. Uh I think it's far superior than
18:16film or literature or anything else. Uh
18:20and that's why my my movies rarely have
18:22music. I I love music enough to respect
18:24it and leave it alone unless it really
18:26has to be used and belongs uh in a you
18:31know
18:32has a main a real reason to to be on a
18:35film
18:37and then you mentioned that uh Isak
18:39Hernandez had a problem with doing the
18:41scene and going in this direction with
18:45the end of the movie. What happens uh in
18:49a situation like this when one of your
18:51actors or actresses simply is dealing or
18:55struggling with uh what is there in the
18:57script? What uh does the discussion look
19:00like? Maybe I promised him we would work
19:03it out together, but he knew from the
19:06very first draft he read that that was
19:09going to be that it was going to happen.
19:12Um, but I promised that that that it
19:16could be dealt with in a different way
19:18that we would work it out together and
19:20it was like that. I we don't do
19:22rehearsals, but we I spend a lot of time
19:25with the actors. Uh, Isach was driving
19:28me around San Francisco in his car and
19:30we were spending long hours together and
19:32we talked a lot about that scene. Part
19:34of his problem was saying
19:37that he he he said that by doing that he
19:41was kind of proving Trump right. You
19:44know how Trump keeps saying bad things
19:46about immigrants and all that. And I
19:48told him it's not that simple. It's it's
19:50not that it let's talk about the
19:52characters. Forget about the politics.
19:55Uh, and I also told him that this is a
19:58great opportunity to have a character
20:01doing things that are right and wrong. I
20:05that's one of my main things about
20:07script writing. I don't like when on the
20:09first five minutes or or 15 minutes of a
20:12film, they tell you who's good, who's
20:14bad, who's what's right, what's wrong,
20:16what's the goal, you know, they use this
20:18ridiculous terms like the journey of the
20:20hero and I don't know what. You know,
20:22that's the beauty again of reading a a
20:25good book that that that it goes to
20:27depth and surprises you. And I like that
20:31a character in a in a movie can be right
20:34and wrong in at different moments.
20:39Do you want to follow some? Yeah, go
20:42ahead.
20:42Um, hi. Sorry. What can you tell us what
20:45were some of your inspirations behind
20:47like the wealthy San Francisco family?
20:50Were there any like families or like
20:53portrayals of such families that
20:54influenced you?
20:56Uh let me try to remember.
21:01I know people like that in Mexico. I
21:03know people like that everywhere. Uh,
21:07and they're funny people because they
21:09they kind of behave as if they're above
21:13of of the rest of us of society and and
21:18uh
21:20they they they they've they they're
21:22convinced that they're making
21:25collaborating at making a better world
21:27and so on mainly because they're
21:29throwing money at things. Uh but when
21:33they have to prove that by investing
21:37themselves uh they they're often uh they
21:42often fail. Also something that I find
21:45interesting about her character and the
21:46family that she belongs to is that it's
21:49easier to be a a good person when you're
21:52wealthy and your life is easy and you
21:55never had to struggle. When Buno was
21:58often asked uh especially in
22:00relationship to Los Alvidados why he was
22:03showing these people under the worst
22:06light or why were they so savage? He
22:09said anyone that's living in the streets
22:11with nothing, you know, the the the the
22:15worst part of of of that people's nature
22:17will come out because it's a it's a
22:20jungle. It's a fight. It's primitive.
22:23It's not that they're bad people. uh cuz
22:26he was specially attacked uh by Mexicans
22:29cuz he was a Spaniard shooting films in
22:31in Mexico. And uh here it kind of
22:35applies the opposite way. these wealthy
22:38people that often think that they are so
22:40good. Like even when when Jessica's
22:43character confesses what she's done to
22:45him, it's almost as as as as she thinks
22:49that again with money uh she'll keep uh
22:54helping him or something and he's not
22:56looking for help. And he he's got a lot
22:59of dignity from the beginning of the
23:01film when he gets there. he's, you know,
23:03the the the moment that he's illreated
23:06because she feels ashamed to be seen uh
23:10with her in society, he splits. Uh
23:15I mean, that's the point where the whole
23:16movie could have gone to a better place
23:19if she would have left him alone.
23:22Um and just a quick followup, I remember
23:24after Berlin, I saw a couple of reviews
23:26that were saying like one of the parts
23:28that was like unrealistic was that
23:30Jessica's character doesn't speak any
23:31Spanish. cuz like she's like a rich
23:34woman who probably went to private
23:35school and um can you tell us a bit more
23:38about your decision for that?
23:40Oh, but that's completely real. Uh
23:43hardly any
23:45uh average American or wealthy American
23:48or they don't speak Spanish. I I always
23:50tell my my my friends like Tim Roth who
23:54been living in Pasadena for 30 years and
23:57his kids who were born there, I tell
23:59them, "Shame on you guys." is like how
24:01what what's your excuse to not speak
24:03Spanish? You you are dealing with people
24:06that speak Spanish every day. Like come
24:09on, you know, step up. Uh and and some
24:12even tell you, yes, we we learned in
24:13school, but then I forgot everything.
24:15Well, that only shows that you have zero
24:18interest in in in in in
24:21not only the Mexicans, but you know, and
24:24in in like kind of and it's not the
24:26truth about Tim, of course. Tim's a
24:28very, you know, uh, you know, he's the
24:32opposite of that, but but but it it does
24:34apply to most people. Like, how come you
24:36don't speak Spanish? Every American
24:37should be bilingual.
24:39Thank you.
24:40At least.
24:43So, what's his response,
24:45Tim? Well, they all say, "Yeah, I wish I
24:48could, you know, I Yeah, yeah, I'll I'll
24:50try, you know, and but it's not true.
24:53Having said that, we shot with Tim in
24:55Mexico 600 miles and he's always and
24:58Sundown in Aapulko and Tim's always
25:00telling me write more movies that we can
25:02shoot in Mexico and he's all for other
25:05cultures and so on and he's British. Um,
25:09but they I don't know. I don't know. And
25:12Spanish is a great uh language. I mean
25:14there an additional reason to want to
25:16learn Spanish is simply to for
25:18literature again to read certain writers
25:21in in in you know El Kote or whatever
25:25you know Pedro Paramu
25:29when you get some idea for a film or for
25:33just a topic maybe uh not the whole
25:35story what do you do you instantly go
25:38and write some notes down or do you
25:41think about it and you dwell in the
25:44possible images and then something maybe
25:47comes out of it or maybe not or do you
25:50discuss it and then you develop
25:52something out of those discussions with
25:54maybe people who are close to you or how
25:56do you proceed? Well, the first thing is
25:58definitely writing. Uh, ideally with a
26:01pen, not not on the phone or not, you
26:04know, like to properly sit and write
26:06because uh that connection when when I
26:09start writing uh I start understanding
26:13my mind in a better way just by writing.
26:16Uh and that's immediately when I see if
26:20that idea has potential or it shifts
26:23into something else. to long story
26:26short, yes, put it on the on paper, you
26:29know, put it on the writing. Um, but
26:31then then I might forget about what I
26:35wrote or it might keep coming back on
26:38the next days and weeks. Uh, and it
26:42might start to turn into a story or into
26:45a film. Uh, I don't like to think that
26:48that that films are storytelling. I I
26:50think that's a a way that limits the the
26:54potential of films to say it's
26:55storytelling. Um because for example,
26:58New Order was a very hard film to
27:02just tell us a story. It's more of a
27:06exploration I don't know. Yeah. you
27:08know, on society or but
27:13um I only sit and write a script if if
27:16if certain ideas or or or or the world
27:20that I'm depicting has been on my mind
27:22for at least a couple of years.
27:26Like dreams, I had the idea for at least
27:29seven years. I I never make uh uh you
27:34know go into the writing and making of a
27:37film if I'm not haunted by it and and
27:41that normally it's a years of a process.
27:44The only exception was Sundown. Uh that
27:47film I wrote on the middle of a personal
27:50crisis. I was quite depressed for the
27:53first time in my life. I was
27:54experiencing uh some sort of some sort
27:57of midlife crisis and and I just wrote
28:00it very fast. I sent it to Tim and he
28:02said, "Let's shoot it. Uh don't think
28:05more about it." And that was it. But
28:07it's out of all my moves the only one
28:09that I wrote fast.
28:13Okay.
28:15Thank you for sharing that. Can I go
28:17back to uh hearing a little bit more
28:19about then what happens after the
28:21initial idea and maybe your research
28:24process like very practically how do you
28:26research topic themes uh to sort of make
28:29make
28:31uh make it your own?
28:35Often
28:37often the ideas have to do with certain
28:40obsessions or fears or experiences I
28:42had. So um
28:45the the the need for research is not uh
28:49is not the first thing you know and even
28:52if I'm writing about something that I
28:53don't know so well like let's talk about
28:55memory I didn't know that much about uh
28:59dementia early onset dementia and all
29:02that but before
29:04uh researching too much I write the
29:08story or the possible film uh and only
29:12When I have a draft, I start to do a lot
29:14of research because I'm afraid that if I
29:16do it the other way around, I will lose
29:18my freedom. Uh often what I do is just
29:21write a draft and hand it to some expert
29:24on the subject matter. Uh which is
29:27frightening of course because you might
29:28hear you're completely lost. But but if
29:31if that person who knows a lot about the
29:34subject matter uh says in you know the
29:38the the
29:40it's basically uh plausible and
29:44interesting then you know I'll correct
29:47and and improve it make it more
29:49interesting with with re through through
29:51research. Um
29:55I think what's interesting is about a
29:57filmmakers and I always my favorite
29:59filmmakers are those who have a a
30:04a full body of work a a big large body
30:08of work. Uh
30:11the thing is okay your first two three
30:13movies are probably very personal and
30:15and you know uh but what about the fifth
30:18and what about the 10th movie? uh you
30:22then need to be resourceful and and come
30:24up with new combinations. In a way,
30:27we're always doing the same film over
30:29and over again. Yes, it's true to some
30:31extent, but the audience won't fall for
30:33that so easily. So, I find that
30:36interesting. How to find the next movie
30:39uh after making a number of films.
30:44At what stage of uh work on the script
30:47other people do step in, other
30:49collaborators? I mean uh for instance uh
30:52your cinematographer uh you work with EF
30:56Cup for a very long time. Uh so when do
31:00you show to him the script maybe?
31:02Yeah we we shot seven movies together.
31:04The the seventh is now on the process of
31:06editing. I'm not going to talk about it
31:08because I never like uh you know
31:10spoiling you know any or or or
31:13distracting you know the attention has
31:15to go to the film the current film. But
31:18uh to Eve I only give it once it's
31:21ready. Uh the I I think the only
31:27exception was new order. Uh he stayed at
31:30my home when we shoot in Mexico. He
31:33stays at my place. Uh which makes it a
31:37nightmare because we're talking about it
31:3824 hours. You know, it's non-stop work.
31:41But we love it. New Order was hard to
31:44figure out. Uh, and and whatever idea I
31:48had, the question was, is it is it can
31:51we shoot that, you know, uh, because the
31:54film has 3,000 extras and everything,
31:56but but but we shot it with a limited
31:59budget, so I really needed Eve to to
32:02pull it off. Um,
32:06the the person I normally I don't hand
32:09out the script until I have a a a good
32:12draft. The exception is my sister uh my
32:16younger sister who's also a filmmaker
32:19and the best example of it is memory uh
32:22I don't know if you saw it but but
32:24memory was the the the first idea for
32:26memory. So before I wrote the script I
32:28talked to my sister and I told her it's
32:31going to be a revenge story. this woman
32:33uh runs into the guy that uh did her
32:36wrong in school and gets an opportunity
32:40because she's hired to
32:43to you know get it was a revenge story
32:46and she said
32:48there's something a lot more interesting
32:51if if you don't go there uh challenge
32:55yourself in a different way uh and she
32:59was right and and I was also in a
33:02kind of peaceful personal moment in my
33:05life. So that resonated, made sense and
33:09so it completely changed. And Jessica
33:12always tells the story that when she was
33:14reading the script, when when that
33:17moment arrived, she was ready to put
33:19down the script and say, "I'm not
33:20interested in making this movie."
33:22Because she knew the revenge story was
33:24coming. And two pages later, she was
33:26surprised to see that it went into a
33:28total different direction. And that's
33:30another thing about script writing. Uh
33:32for me it's very important. I was saying
33:34earlier about not knowing who's bad,
33:37who's who's good, who's bad, and what's
33:39the you know the the the
33:42obvious story line. I I take pride on
33:47saying that my I think my films you you
33:50can't outguess what's going to happen.
33:52Uh
33:55I mean
33:57when you know exactly what's happening
34:00on the next hour for me it's not
34:02stimulating. And what's hard about that
34:04is that you have to earn it. It has to
34:06be original but without just being
34:08You can't just you know
34:10surprise the audience by by by betraying
34:12the characters or doing whatever that
34:14makes no sense. Uh so in the case of
34:17memory I filmed I think the film
34:19benefited from from that uh conversation
34:22with my sister. Uh it doesn't mean that
34:25we always agree. Sometimes I I shoot
34:28something that even on the final stage
34:31my sister uh is strongly against you
34:34know.
34:38Yeah. Go on please.
34:41Hello. Uh I would like to ask about this
34:43script writing because you just
34:45mentioned that this hero's journey is
34:48not really your cup of tea and that you
34:50don't like in first 15 minutes to know
34:54who is the bad or good guy. But what is
34:57the replacement? Because when you don't
34:59have these kind of classical script uh
35:03followings
35:04then uh when you want when you want to
35:09get the money uh from some grant then
35:12then they will tell you the first first
35:1615 minutes doesn't work because we don't
35:17know who is the bad or good guy or what
35:19is the theme. So what are your way to
35:24breed? It's challenging to gather money
35:27for a film that's not straightforward.
35:29And yeah, when you go to pitch the film,
35:32they're exactly expecting that to to why
35:36the character is likable and what are we
35:39going to learn and yeah, I mean all
35:40those uh and it's also very dangerous
35:44that often people that are greenlighting
35:46films are or or financing films read
35:49save the cut, you know. So that's
35:50exactly they think that that that
35:52they're doing a their job by finding
35:55those answers you know and it's very
35:58limiting like like good films cannot be
36:01done like that you know you you you you
36:03don't watch uh stalker or you know any
36:07good film uh I mean how do you pitch or
36:10how do you describe the the fireman's
36:12bowl the the mil from I mean it's a
36:15crazy movie it's you know it's it's it's
36:17beautiful it's chaotic it's life. Pitch
36:20that and you'll you don't get a scent.
36:22And most of all, it's magic. It's Milos
36:24Foreman doing his thing.
36:27I an additional reason to why I make a
36:30film a year. Mainly because I enjoy it.
36:32But it's also because
36:35I I learned that the faster you go, it's
36:38harder for people to stop you. And it's
36:40easier for them to say, "Okay, keep
36:42going. Ah, you were just at the Berlin.
36:44You were just at Venice. Peter got an uh
36:47the award for best actor. Here's money
36:51for your next film. You know, uh like if
36:54you wait four or five years for that uh
36:57excitement to to fade, then it's harder
37:01to to get back on the saddle. Uh so
37:04that's part of why I I always say better
37:06better walk before you have to
37:09desperately run later on.
37:12When I got the money for new order, uh
37:15it was government money and then an MG.
37:18Uh I was surprised that I got the
37:21government money, but that's an
37:22application that they, you know, revised
37:25all the papers and synopsis and this and
37:27that and we miraculously got it. And
37:30then when I went to the distributor to
37:32pitch it, I I I I couldn't tell the
37:35story because I didn't understand the
37:37story. But but I was telling my pitch
37:39was I swear to you I know what I'm
37:42doing. I just don't know don't know how
37:43to explain it.
37:45And they say, you know, here's the
37:48money. Uh a limited amount of money.
37:51That's all we're going to gamble with
37:54your craziness, but go ahead. I I think
37:57you earn it also with with movie after
38:00movie. Um, and that is interesting when
38:04when when again I I like filmmakers
38:07whose body of work uh speaks more than
38:10just a a film on its own. Yeah.
38:16In case of um New Order film with such a
38:20political and revolutionary
38:23things going on and with also like wild
38:26reactions uh to those film. uh how were
38:30afterwards uh u the people from the
38:33Mexican film fund satisfied with it and
38:37uh were most of the people you were
38:40pitching the project originally to were
38:42satisfied with the fact that they
38:45greenlighted it
38:46before the controversy started which I
38:50knew was coming when I got the silver
38:52lion in Venice I said to everyone I mean
38:56to my friends and family I that this
38:58time I really needed an award because I
39:00know controversy is coming so this kind
39:03of helps to say come on you know it's
39:05it's not only me you know someone gave
39:08it a uh praised um everyone that watched
39:13the film before the controversy had zero
39:17problems with it uh wasn't puzzled by it
39:21uh the controversy in Mexico was
39:23interesting because it started when the
39:25trailer came out not because of the film
39:27And I think the trailer was uh didn't
39:30made justice to the film wasn't uh the
39:33film wasn't well presented. Having said
39:35that, anyway, it was going to be
39:36controversial and I wanted that um not
39:40for the sake of controversy but if I'm
39:42making a film about social disparity and
39:45about uh you know dystopian break uh um
39:51of society you know the breakdown of
39:53society because of social disparity. It
39:56has to trouble people. it has to
39:58confront people. So, I was always
40:00flattered with it. Um,
40:03and then it was funny that some people
40:05were saying, "Let's make sure this guy
40:07never makes another film again." And I
40:09had already shot Sundown. So, you know,
40:12also when all that controversy was
40:14happening, I was editing my next movie.
40:16I was shielded emotionally and I was
40:19busy and I couldn't care less about
40:21people saying, you know, like whatever
40:23they had to say. Yeah.
40:29more questions here. Okay.
40:30Hi, me again. Um, speaking of
40:33controversies, are you at any are you in
40:37any way worried that your this film
40:39dream might be misinterpreted or
40:41co-opted by America like certain
40:45American demographics considering like
40:47it's coming out at such unprecedented
40:50times? Uh
40:53I'm I'm not that stressed now because I
40:58rely on the reactions uh the Berlin from
41:02the American
41:04uh outlets, Hollywood Reporter, Variety,
41:07IndieWire, they all got the film and
41:10they got, you know, they understood that
41:13certain tr aspects that are troubling
41:16about the characters decisions or
41:17mistakes have to do with with with with
41:20with a bigger frame. I I think they all
41:23got it. Uh the film got very positive
41:25reviews. That doesn't mean that it's
41:27shielded. Um I hope there's going to be
41:29some controversy. Otherwise, it's
41:31boring. Uh I love Pasolini. Uh you know,
41:35his death uh the assassination of
41:38Pelini, I don't like uh you know, it
41:41should never go that far. But
41:44controversy, yes. and Pasolini would
41:46always spend uh time on on on Italian TV
41:53arguing very interestingly uh about what
41:58Italian society looked like at the time.
42:01So
42:03I I mean since I was 15 14 years old and
42:06I took a serious interesting on on film
42:09uh and I saw Buno and and and Pasolini
42:13and all this writer directors for me it
42:16always went hand in hand. I I I I never
42:19thought oh I'm going to grow up to do to
42:22shoot the Goonies you know uh or to
42:25adapt some bestsellering book. Uh to me
42:29it was always about this.
42:35Yeah.
42:37I just wonder about your uh relationship
42:39towards Czech culture. You mentioned uh
42:41Ferrisman ball and maybe if you know
42:44some uh writers if you are so much into
42:47reading
42:50and now I feel on the spotlight. Uh
42:55yeah I'll skip that. Not because I I I
42:57I'm I'm going to up for sure on on
43:01TV. Uh but I love Czech uh cinema. Yeah.
43:07And and and literature, too. But I don't
43:10want to get into a sand trap. Not that
43:13you meant it that way.
43:17You like to film chronologically. Is it
43:20always uh possible especially if the
43:24projects are
43:26uh like new order uh maybe complicated
43:30and big with extras and and stuff like
43:32that?
43:32The shooting is
43:34Yeah. shooting
43:35I always shoot in chronological order.
43:37Uh yes. Yes. Uh in order it was kind of
43:40easy if you think about it because the
43:44first half of the film happens in at at
43:47the wedding inside a house. Uh
43:51so that was easy. I mean we had to shoot
43:53that. Um and then we start moving to
43:58different locations. But again a a big
44:01advantage of being a writer and and and
44:03and the producer of the film is that uh
44:09for example when I shot dreams uh we
44:12keep control of all the locations
44:14throughout the whole shooting. The same
44:16for memory New York. So even if we have
44:19a smallish budget, uh I never get a
44:24a location that I'm not allowed to
44:26return to. Uh and we the house of of
44:31dreams, for example, where she lives,
44:33that's white and with beautiful art
44:36objects and there's not a single
44:39production design thing we did. That's
44:42how the house looks, period. So, I lower
44:46the budget on on on production design. I
44:49just find locations that fully work. Uh,
44:52and when you're shooting like that, they
44:54always allow you to go back in if you
44:58don't destroy their place and if you're
45:00with a limited amount of people, you
45:02know. So, that also allows me to reshoot
45:05whatever I'm not satisfied with. Um, and
45:10there's a lot of re-shoot in my movies.
45:12A lot of re-shoots. Yeah. like 20 30% of
45:15what you end up seeing on screen I shot
45:17twice on separate days but that didn't
45:20make it more expensive and these things
45:22if I would like if I would try to
45:24explain them to a to a regular producer
45:27they sound great but when I talk to them
45:30to new people that I'm collaborating
45:32with they go crazy uh they sound good
45:36like ideas but then it's challenging to
45:38actually do it uh but it's not that hard
45:42and it's not more expensive expensive
45:44and of course they will kill me in a
45:46film school if I would say that this is
45:47the way of doing things. But why not? I
45:50think I think that the the thing that
45:53that that uh productions are lacking the
45:56most uh is common sense.
46:05Can you elaborate a little bit on your
46:07um um on the basically on the production
46:11and your uh relationship with your
46:13producers? Are you working I don't know
46:15if you're working with the same again
46:16and again. uh and that I could imagine
46:19that helps but uh if we have producers
46:23in the room I think they can tell us
46:24that it's also hard to produce that
46:25process that you described probably but
46:28um just can you tell us a little bit
46:30more about how also like how do you yeah
46:33basically you you need to sort of keep
46:35the money coming in order to also be
46:37able to do the next but you also need to
46:40do the next to keep the money coming and
46:42that kind of process uh on financial
46:44side
46:44so it's very important to tell you a
46:46little bit about uh my business partner
46:51uh Ernend is her name. She's a producer.
46:55She was a uh coordinator on a film I
46:58produced. I didn't hire her. I I I cuz I
47:02I always produce uh my film every year
47:06or every other year and a couple of
47:08other films every year. uh cuz it's also
47:12a a a way of keeping a crew, you know,
47:15the everything going, the machinery so
47:17to speak. So I saw this girl Lenda who
47:20was a coordinator and and I liked her
47:22immediately. I felt good about her. Uh
47:25this was in 2017
47:2818 I think or or 17 and I told her would
47:31you like to be my main producer starting
47:33tomorrow and she was very young. Uh she
47:36said yes. said, "It's going to be, you
47:39know, tricky and a lot of work and
47:42I just I'm just asking you to do things
47:45my way, not to do it do them in a
47:47professional way." And she agreed. And
47:50since then, we shot like 20 movies
47:52already. So, the reason why I can make
47:56two movies a year with other people is
47:58because Serenda, she does all the heavy
48:00lifting. Uh, and also when I have a
48:04script and I give it to her and she
48:06likes it and agrees and give some input,
48:08of course, then she's the one making all
48:10the calls and and and and getting all
48:13the the usual suspects together again.
48:16So, Nunes, she's, you know, I couldn't
48:20do it without her. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
48:24And sometimes sometimes I I'm not going
48:26to get into details, but but people
48:29wouldn't imagine how
48:32low. I can go on a budget and still make
48:34it work and and look good if I have to.
48:38If I can have more money, then I'm
48:40happy. But but if not, I'll just tell
48:44everyone uh uh mainly the actors, you're
48:47going to get paid very little. If you
48:49want to be a part of it, you know, and
48:53then sometimes people tell me, why don't
48:54you push six months or a year, whatever
48:57to find more money? I said, "No, because
48:59in a year I want to make another film."
49:01I think time is the most precious thing
49:03we have. So to just sit on the script
49:05because you need more money that you
49:07don't necessarily need. Yeah.
49:11And the same goes for projects of other
49:14directors uh like you did to mention
49:17some of those films 600 miles um Laka
49:21the box uh or Almo probably latest um
49:25feature film produced uh you go the very
49:29same way with them like uh let's go to
49:32shoot it now don't wait for more money
49:35uh be more humble with uh uh with it and
49:38so on. normally they want to work with
49:40me because they know how I work. Uh so
49:42so there's some understanding from
49:45scratch that you know we we end and I
49:48will we work on a very we work on a very
49:50practical way but but when I collaborate
49:54with a director I always try to adapt to
49:56to to that director and not the other
49:58way around. Um I mean we have all kinds
50:02of stories. Uh I just produced my
50:05sister's first film uh her first feature
50:08film and uh it's unbelievable how many
50:13locations she had and I I think a good
50:15producer and that's what I tried with my
50:17sister is to never say no to always say
50:19yes yes yes you know whatever the
50:21director needs is yes until you know it
50:24reaches a limit um
50:28but
50:29for example we co-produce with plan B
50:31with the American company and they
50:33financed the film. Um, so that was not
50:36challenging. What was hard, I guess, was
50:39to to have Fernando do his thing to to
50:42kind of protect Fernando. That was my
50:44main job. Every case is different.
50:48Lorenzo Vigas couldn't be more, you
50:50know, we're we're not similar. Uh,
50:52that's why he makes a film every eight
50:54years.
50:56Uh, but he's really talented. With his
50:59first film, he got The Golden Lion. So I
51:02try to help him uh and that's it to not
51:05get on his way.
51:13Hi. Um so speaking of the locations, was
51:16the detention center also um someplace
51:19you found instead of created on set?
51:22Uh
51:24just le let's be clear about the
51:26detention center. You mean the one in
51:28San Francisco?
51:29Uh yeah. or in Mexico when he's
51:31both actually like
51:32okay so I'll I'll tell you um the
51:35detention center in San Francisco it's a
51:38a former jail a real jail that's not in
51:41use anymore that they use for shooting a
51:43lot so that was it uh we don't see it
51:46much on the film but yeah then in Mexico
51:50I got lucky and they let me shoot in in
51:52Tijuana on a real uh crossing point. It
51:57was very sad and dramatic because while
51:59we were shooting, we saw a lot of people
52:01that were truly deported. Um,
52:05and there was no pre-scouting or
52:08anything. The the permit was just you
52:11have 3 hours to go in and shoot, you
52:13know. So, we did the best we could. Uh,
52:17and then then then then
52:20where there's a fire and all that that
52:23it's a little trickier. That's a film
52:25set in Mexico. So, it's not Tijuana
52:28anymore. The, you know, magically the
52:30the film magic allows us to cross the
52:33street and we're inside a film set, but
52:35nobody notices. and and there I did
52:37shoot for a long day and did the fire
52:40and and I I like what I like about that
52:42scene too talking about the script is
52:44that uh immigrants from from Latin
52:48American countries are treated
52:51mistreated uh and they start a fire a
52:55riot
52:56um and that shows how Mexican
52:59authorities are also illreating other
53:02immigrants you know I didn't want to
53:04make the movie only or Americans are on
53:07top of Mexico and that's it. No, the
53:09chain always the ladder always keeps
53:10going down unfortunately and nobody
53:12learns. And that's based on a real uh
53:16case uh about four years ago 60
53:19immigrants or 80 immigrant I forgot the
53:22number uh the exact number but mainly
53:24Venezuelan immigrants uh were uh they
53:28died they burned and the Mexican
53:31authorities uh like in the film they
53:34they logged them uh they said like ah if
53:37you want to start a fire you know there
53:39you go uh and they Right.
53:43Um, since you didn't have a permit and
53:45that like going in was your first time
53:47going in, what was like your reaction,
53:48your visceral reaction
53:50to what
53:50to going into like the detention center
53:53in Mexico? What was your first like
53:55reaction to the place?
53:56Uh,
53:58I've I've been into many places that I
54:01that I would never go if it wasn't
54:03because I'm looking at them as a film
54:05director that's about to shoot
54:06something. For example, when I shot
54:08Sundown, I spent the full day shooting.
54:11It was horrible. the the worst shooting
54:12day of my life on a slaughter house
54:16and then none of the images ended up on
54:18the film. Uh so I could have you know
54:21avoided that. It's the worst place I've
54:23seen in my life. A slaughter house. Um
54:27but and I shot many operations like
54:30surgeries and stuff. Uh
54:33but when you're there doing uh you know
54:37job or research uh I keep a cool mind
54:40and I try not to be you know to to use
54:43my mind more than my stomach.
54:50You mentioned that the slaughterhouse
54:52scene was edited out. You're also editor
54:55of your films not only writer producer
54:57and uh director. So you keep uh the
55:01editing room for yourself to to keep the
55:04control or for keep the wheel running as
55:08you have already mentioned like for the
55:10film business or for some very different
55:12reason from this.
55:13Uh well the main reason for me to be on
55:16the editing room is because I think it's
55:20the best part of the process. It's it's
55:22frustrating because it's it's it's not
55:26like writing where you can write
55:27anything. you have a limited you okay to
55:30put it in better words you can start
55:32exploring and understanding the
55:34possibilities that the material offered
55:37to you and sometimes there's more than
55:39you imagined but anyway you shot what
55:42you shot and you I'm I'm never I I've
55:44never done re-shoots afterwards so
55:46that's it that's you know you got to
55:48play and build a movie with that um I
55:52work with when I shoot in Mexico or also
55:54in the states uh with a Mexican editor
55:57Oscar Figareroa who's 65 or something
56:00like that and he's very experienced and
56:02skilled. So we edit together and I
56:06listen to him and
56:10uh
56:12sometimes I don't have uh enough
56:14patience to watch the 25 shots I did the
56:1825 takes. Sorry. So I tell him, "You do
56:21the dirty work and let me know if if
56:23there's something I should watch, you
56:25know." uh which is wrong you know I but
56:27but but again making a film a year my my
56:32excitement is in the next one. Um so we
56:36we collaborate together we edit together
56:39uh and a film can be totally shifted and
56:44saved or ruined on the editing as
56:46everybody knows. I always try to make
56:49the films as short as possible. I think
56:51I'm I'm one of the few directors that
56:53try to make them as compact as I can. Uh
56:57there's seems to be a trend where films
56:59are, you know, two hours and a half or
57:02whatever. And I often think directors
57:05are just killing themselves, you know,
57:08uh and and again making it more
57:10challenging for distribution. But but
57:12mostly I take pride and that's why I'm
57:14not interested in TV. I take pride in in
57:17in saying a lot with with less resources
57:20and with less time and hopefully to to
57:23to to not make the same scene time and
57:26and again on a good film a scene should
57:29never repeat itself. I mean
57:33you're going through the same
57:36uh ideas and so on but you know what I
57:40mean it shouldn't repeat itself. Um,
57:44and that can only be done on the
57:46editing. Bison is one of my favorite
57:50directors. Uh,
57:53and he wrote the most important book for
57:55me. Uh, I didn't go to film school, but
57:58that book contains everything that one
58:00should know. And then you have
58:02Tarovsky's book no sculpting in time
58:05that it's the total the other side of
58:08those two books for me are are sum up a
58:10lot of what a film make film filmmaker
58:13needs to understand.
58:18So could you tell us uh which film
58:21project was uh like the most different
58:26in editing room in comparison with uh
58:29your own script which you where you
58:31maybe improvised in the editing room or
58:34changed uh order of things or so on.
58:38In in most cases I play a lot and then I
58:41go back to the script pretty much.
58:43Sundown was trickier than that because I
58:46what I learned is that the less time you
58:48spend writing the the longer the editing
58:52process is usually longer because
58:55whatever you didn't exhaust or on fully
58:58understand or whatever on on the writing
59:00you you end up paying on the editing and
59:03that was the case of Sundown. But some
59:05what what I liked about the process also
59:07of shooting that film is I told the
59:08cinematographer and and and everyone
59:10else I'm I'm I want to get lost. I want
59:14to be lost and found. I I I find myself
59:17and lose myself again. And for Tim Rod
59:19that was very hard uh a hard process cuz
59:22actors want certainty. Uh and that made
59:25the editing process longer too. But it's
59:28the film I like the most out of all the
59:30films I've done. I think Dreams is to
59:33answer your question, Dreams is the one
59:35that was harder to edit and that I
59:38changed more. Uh I I can't go now into
59:42details heavily into details, but but
59:44but it was a very different script, a
59:46very different story. Uh,
59:50I'll for example just say that when when
59:53she when he showed up at the beginning,
59:55uh, there was a long chapter that I
59:57ended up not using where she would
59:59reject him immediately. Uh,
1:00:03and on the page it seemed fine, but
1:00:06editing I I it took me months to realize
1:00:09I was killing the audience. if if that
1:00:12couple didn't, you know, immediately
1:00:14want to to have each other on on on on
1:00:17on the spot, uh the film wouldn't work.
1:00:22Uh and that
1:00:25uh that became uh a headache editing
1:00:30because things didn't match, were not
1:00:32shot to be used that way. So, Dreams was
1:00:35hard to edit.
1:00:38Thanks for sharing it. Uh and Sundown
1:00:41also that's a film about character that
1:00:43is lost kind of and he's there on the
1:00:46beach uh finding some new opportunities
1:00:50maybe and and so on. So um this feeling
1:00:54of being lost in the film and in the
1:00:57creative process kind of match.
1:00:59Yes. Yes. And again, I I I'm I'm glad
1:01:02you're saying that. And again, because I
1:01:03wrote it on this personal crisis, I I
1:01:07was also gambling with saying I want to
1:01:09get into trouble as a filmmaker, you
1:01:11know, with with myself and with the
1:01:12structure of the film. I I was willing
1:01:16to make it hard on myself. I the
1:01:19filmmakers I like the most uh for
1:01:21example, Fazbeer who would make five,
1:01:23seven films a year. Uh
1:01:26they made all sorts of different movies.
1:01:30Uh they were not playing it safe. Uh of
1:01:33course Godart was not playing it safe.
1:01:36And I hate this obsession with writing a
1:01:39script for a long long time with all
1:01:41these rules and pitching it then you
1:01:44know making sure that everything's in
1:01:46place. like unless it's the, you know,
1:01:49space odyssey or some kick movie or
1:01:51Hitchcock, you're just killing
1:01:53everything that might end up being
1:01:55spontaneous and alive in the film. Uh,
1:01:58and I think it's good to know by heart
1:02:00what you're trying to do, but then you
1:02:02have to also be open to to forget about
1:02:05that uh plan and and to just lose
1:02:09yourself and also to I I think that that
1:02:14in
1:02:16in most cases when when directors and
1:02:18actors fight and have uh strong
1:02:21conflicts is because directors are often
1:02:23it's either because you chose the wrong
1:02:25actors so it's not the right match, but
1:02:28it's often and more interestingly to
1:02:31talk about it's when when the director
1:02:34is not willing to listen to the actors
1:02:36uh and it's not willing to collaborate
1:02:38because their logic is I wrote the
1:02:42script. I thought about it. I've been on
1:02:43it for years. This is what we're doing.
1:02:46And it's a shame to do that. Not because
1:02:49of the respect of including every I'm
1:02:52not talking about that because this is a
1:02:53dictatorship. it, you know, the director
1:02:56should should do what she or he wants to
1:02:58do. End of story. But if you're a clever
1:03:01dictator, you listen to everyone. You
1:03:04you you you you
1:03:06use everyone's talent and brains. And
1:03:09there they are there. Jessica is always
1:03:11saying, you know, use me, you know, like
1:03:15like like like like push me to to the
1:03:18maximum capacity, you know, like like
1:03:20like she wants to learn something of
1:03:22herself that she hasn't found. And so we
1:03:26engage on that process and and in
1:03:28exchange when when when
1:03:30uh let's say on 5% of the scenes I do
1:03:34need the actors to to okay on this time
1:03:38I need you to stand here and turn and do
1:03:41this because that's what I want to do.
1:03:43When when it's only occasionally they
1:03:45say yes of course you know because the
1:03:47rest of the time you're listening to
1:03:49them.
1:03:52Can you can you talk you said earlier
1:03:54that you don't actually rehearse the
1:03:56scenes but you spend a lot of time
1:03:57together.
1:03:58Could you elaborate please? Yes. What's
1:04:00that process like?
1:04:01Of course. Um so I try to to read the
1:04:07script or at least to go through every
1:04:09scene with the main actors uh months in
1:04:14advance if if if we can uh uh afford to
1:04:18do it. Uh, for example, with Jessica,
1:04:22uh, in the case of memory, our first
1:04:24film together, I think it was December
1:04:2622, like very close close to Christmas,
1:04:30and we got together in her house, and we
1:04:33just read every scene together. And so
1:04:36she would ask, she would say, I don't
1:04:38understand this, or I disagree with
1:04:40that, or how much she likes something or
1:04:43suddenly started to share something
1:04:45personal about her life. uh that that
1:04:48scene reminded her of. So, it's just a
1:04:50lot of bonding and a lot of ideas that I
1:04:54might rewrite the script or not
1:04:55according to what we discuss. She never
1:04:58gets tired. After 7 hours, uh the
1:05:01husband said, "Let's have dinner." I
1:05:03said, "Yes, thank you." Like, "Get me
1:05:04out of here." Uh and after dinner and
1:05:08and a glass of tour wine, I was ready to
1:05:10leave to my hotel. And she turned to me
1:05:12and said, "Shall we keep going? We still
1:05:14need 20 pages.
1:05:17And yeah, she's like that. Uh, but
1:05:19that's good because then when you're on
1:05:21set, you don't have the actor saying, "I
1:05:23don't understand this." And and 50 the
1:05:26the whole crew, you know, 50 people
1:05:28waiting for a one-on-one discussion on
1:05:31whether that's the right line or not.
1:05:33So, I try to do that beforehand.
1:05:36Um,
1:05:39and I try to do it before I used to get
1:05:41all the actors together for that kind of
1:05:44table reading. But now I find it more
1:05:47interesting to do it separately because
1:05:49uh for example talking about memory uh
1:05:52Peter and Jessica never talked about the
1:05:55film before we shot. So it's not only
1:05:57that we didn't rehearse but they never
1:05:59talked about it. They they didn't know
1:06:01what the other one thought about it. And
1:06:04I didn't know what Jessica was going to
1:06:06do. She didn't tell me that she was
1:06:08hardly even going to say good morning to
1:06:10Peter. So she would We have no trailers.
1:06:13I I don't uh hire trailers because I
1:06:16find that you know a huge lack of sense
1:06:19to have those huge vehicles dragged
1:06:22around the city uh you know and and then
1:06:25you cannot shoot in a certain location
1:06:27because there's no parking for the
1:06:28thing. So again common sense. So we have
1:06:31green rooms which means just a space
1:06:34where the actor can be waiting and
1:06:37Jessica would hardly say good morning.
1:06:39she would just go into her room and keep
1:06:42it all to herself. Of course, I was on
1:06:45that room for long hours talking to her.
1:06:48Uh, and and also I trust my
1:06:50cinematographer so much that I let him
1:06:54the way I work with actors is we don't
1:06:56rehearse. We get in in the morning on
1:06:58set and I tell Peter and Jessica or or
1:07:01Isach and Jessica, show me what you
1:07:03would do. Like one to three action,
1:07:07you know, just do it. just let's see
1:07:09instinctively what happens and I don't
1:07:11direct them. So they do the scene and
1:07:15and and if it's interesting, if there's
1:07:18something to shape, I say something,
1:07:21they do it again, they ask questions, I
1:07:24bring in the cinematographer, we look at
1:07:26it again, we say, "What's the best angle
1:07:29to shoot this?" Because we always try to
1:07:30get it on a single shot. Uh and then
1:07:34when we kind of understand that it's it
1:07:36seems like it's going to work, we let
1:07:39them go to makeup and wardrobe. Uh the
1:07:42cinematographer has time to light the
1:07:45room and get everything technically
1:07:46ready and then they come back and we
1:07:48shoot uh we shoot the rehearsal which
1:07:51means
1:07:53that on the editing uh I would say I
1:07:56shoot an average of 15 takes. So it
1:07:59means that that I usually take the last
1:08:02the second to last or the last or the
1:08:05first or second. Usually the 10 takes in
1:08:08between are not the best. So it was
1:08:10better when I didn't start directing it
1:08:13and it was fresh and good or when I
1:08:16corrected it and and we found something
1:08:19different and it it's take 15. Yeah.
1:08:24Do you yourself have some acting
1:08:26experience?
1:08:28I wish I could act, but no, I mean, I
1:08:31tried and I'm I'm terrible at it. I I
1:08:34really can't. I I
1:08:36been invited even to play myself. Uh,
1:08:39you know, cuz there's this thing where
1:08:42many people are making comedy where
1:08:44people play themselves. I can't even do
1:08:46that. Uh, so no, no, I wish I could
1:08:49because when I see directors that that
1:08:51that are writing for themselves and
1:08:54playing what they wrote, that's perfect.
1:08:55you you know exactly the tone, but I
1:08:58just can't. What I really admired in
1:09:02your films is uh that the camera is
1:09:05exactly at the right point and I feel
1:09:08it's always like the right distance from
1:09:11the actor towards the camera and I'm
1:09:14surprised that now it seems a little bit
1:09:16improvisation
1:09:17because I thought that you plan a lot
1:09:20before how the shot will look like but
1:09:24now you are talking that there is just
1:09:26know 30 minutes of thinking in the room
1:09:28and and one shot, one take or more takes
1:09:32but just one long shot. Uh so I'm just
1:09:36curious maybe also in technical way like
1:09:38the lenses or uh how you think how you
1:09:42will do it
1:09:44something like that.
1:09:45It's it's certain scenes do need to be
1:09:48prepared and we know exactly what we're
1:09:50going to do the cinematographer and I
1:09:52but it's been a very long process on my
1:09:53first movie Danielle and Anna I had
1:09:55storyboards and everything was perfectly
1:09:57planned. Also, I shot it on 35
1:09:59millimeters. So, you know, I I had a
1:10:02limited amount of material to shoot. Uh,
1:10:06Luci was also
1:10:08everything was kind of planned or I
1:10:10tried to be prepared. Uh, Chronic was
1:10:13also Chronic was interesting because I
1:10:15don't know if you saw that movie, but
1:10:16Tim Rod is playing a caregiver and to be
1:10:20ready to shoot the film, he worked uh
1:10:22long months in advance like four or five
1:10:24months uh as a caregiver. So often he
1:10:28would show us the reality of it and we
1:10:31also have an advice or on like a
1:10:34professional caregiver on set to to to
1:10:36show us how to do it. Tim knew by the
1:10:39time of the shooting how to to to do it.
1:10:42So so often the camera angle would favor
1:10:45what you know what we need to needed to
1:10:47see regarding that. Um,
1:10:50New Order was complicated because uh,
1:10:53for example, the scene where where the
1:10:57house the wedding is attacked where
1:10:59where they jump the that scene we
1:11:01rehearsed uh,
1:11:04at least three weekends before shooting.
1:11:07So we would go every Sunday first just
1:11:10with the main actors
1:11:12uh, and then with secondary actors.
1:11:16because the cinematographer and I we
1:11:18didn't understand how to shoot it. So,
1:11:20we kind of and we knew it we couldn't do
1:11:23it on the day with 100 extras and so on
1:11:26and uh there's shooting and everything.
1:11:28We thought we couldn't pull it on a on a
1:11:31wer uh without cutting. Uh but because
1:11:35we rehearsed three or four Sundays in
1:11:37advance and we kept including more
1:11:39people, adding people to it, uh we were
1:11:42able to pull it on the shooting. So
1:11:44sometimes we do I I when I say
1:11:47everything we decide on the spot it's
1:11:49not entirely true there there are some
1:11:51or chronic the ending no that very long
1:11:54take well that we had to block uh so
1:11:57many intersections in Los Angeles so
1:11:59that was carefully planned um but when
1:12:03we're shooting uh for example talking
1:12:05about dreams once they move to Mexico or
1:12:08the whole uh all all the scenes at her
1:12:11apartment we don't plan anymore
1:12:14um we know we're there anyway. And and
1:12:17if the cinematographer kind of uh did a
1:12:21pre-lighting work uh
1:12:25or or he requires very uh not a lot of
1:12:28time for each scene and that's it. We
1:12:30just find the best position. And then we
1:12:35talked about sundown. I was really
1:12:36wanting to lose myself and get into
1:12:38trouble. But when I say get into
1:12:41trouble, it it it it I'm talking about
1:12:43putting Tim Rod in the middle of that
1:12:45beach with no extras like like just on a
1:12:49real environment. Maybe we had 10 extras
1:12:52to control the you know to to be closer
1:12:55to the camera, but the beach was
1:12:57overcrowded with a thousand people and
1:12:59often people would would get in the
1:13:01frame and say something to him or or you
1:13:04know try to sell him something and
1:13:05they're all in the film and Tim was very
1:13:08upset. It was very hard, a very
1:13:10frustrating process for him because it's
1:13:12easier for an actor to say, "Yeah, let's
1:13:14play." than to actually do it, you know,
1:13:17because if if if the improvisation or
1:13:19the, you know, whatever happens, it's
1:13:22it's it's a fortunate one, that's good.
1:13:25But if it's a drunk that comes in in in
1:13:27on the frame and I'm not saying cut and
1:13:30he gets pissed, but he's professional so
1:13:33he he'll stay in the scene and then
1:13:35he'll tell me to off afterwards,
1:13:37but he'll he'll hold it, you know. So
1:13:39that was fun.
1:13:42Yeah.
1:13:43So, are you going to work together uh
1:13:47again?
1:13:47Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely I I
1:13:52learned a lot from Tim. I my chronic was
1:13:57shot after after Lucia and after Lucia
1:14:00filmed that I shot in Mexico with a very
1:14:02small budget and tiny cameras and
1:14:04suddenly the next movie was with a much
1:14:06larger budget in Los Angeles with Tim
1:14:08Rod and he protected me throughout the
1:14:11process. He understood better than I
1:14:12what I wanted to do and I learned a lot
1:14:15of acting and and of film making with
1:14:18him. The only thing I keep telling him
1:14:20is the next movie we make together
1:14:22somehow has to be completely different
1:14:24than Chronic and Sundown. I don't know
1:14:26what that means, but I need to write
1:14:28something completely different.
1:14:34On another note, what what music do you
1:14:37listen to? What's on your playlist these
1:14:39days?
1:14:40What?
1:14:40Music.
1:14:41Ah, music. Sorry.
1:14:42You mentioned music. So,
1:14:44uh I'm curious.
1:14:44Music. Yeah. I like I said earlier, I
1:14:48love music. Uh
1:14:51but it has to be used I hate when I'll
1:14:54say it the other you know I'll explain
1:14:56it with the the way music is usually
1:14:59used in films it's like a l lubricant to
1:15:02feelings right everything that wasn't
1:15:04achieved by the script or the actors
1:15:06let's just put some music and you know
1:15:08make it uh or or or because I want my
1:15:10movie to be two hours and a half music
1:15:13will help break the rhythm. I'm like,
1:15:15come on, better make it work. Don't use
1:15:18the music or overuse or misuse the
1:15:20music. Having said that, on memory, a
1:15:23wider shade of pale that is used like
1:15:24four or five times, it's used for a
1:15:27reason and it's part of the story. Um,
1:15:30so it's an an important element on the
1:15:32film. New Order starts with
1:15:34Shastakovich.
1:15:36Uh, and it's a important uh way to open
1:15:40the film and to let the audience kind of
1:15:42know what what they're getting into
1:15:44because I figured if I would start the
1:15:46film just with a wedding, it's kind of
1:15:50coming from left, you know, like why
1:15:53that suddenly happens. But if we have
1:15:56this montage from with the music at the
1:15:58beginning, then I'm not misleading the
1:16:00audience. And I think you always have to
1:16:02be fair with the audience. You have to
1:16:04surprise them, but but you have to
1:16:06there's some sort of contract where you
1:16:08can't betray them. I don't know how to
1:16:10explain that in a better way. Um, Dreams
1:16:14has music. Well, there's a lot of music
1:16:16because of the ballet uh that you know
1:16:19that's just there and then there's music
1:16:22when they go on that trip and the same
1:16:25music I use at the end. But it's very a
1:16:28very subtle use of music. I believe I'm
1:16:31not against music of course. my favorite
1:16:32directors like Fellini. What would be
1:16:35Fellini without music? Uh it's also hard
1:16:38to to use music properly. It's not easy
1:16:41to make good use of interesting m use of
1:16:44music. I'm now editing my new movie and
1:16:46again I'm using some classical music. Uh
1:16:51why not, right? It's it's it's it's if
1:16:54the joke was on me when I used
1:16:55Shustikovich because I thought it was
1:16:57going to be free of rights and it's
1:16:59super expensive.
1:17:01So now I make sure it's old enough.
1:17:05But may maybe the question was also
1:17:07meant outside of films like what do you
1:17:09listen
1:17:10yeah? Uh yeah I was babbling for 30
1:17:13minutes. Uh what I listen to well some
1:17:17classical music for sure. When I'm
1:17:19writing or reading it's it's uh mostly
1:17:22classical music uh or jazz. Uh, but I'm
1:17:28ashamed to say I I'm still listening to
1:17:30the same records I bought when I was 12
1:17:33years old, you know, to Bob Dylan and
1:17:35Jimmyi Hendris and the Beatles and Yeah.
1:17:39Uh, and I don't want to sound negative
1:17:41about, you know, Rock is dead, but it
1:17:44kind of is. It's hard for me to find
1:17:46interesting new stuff and and I can't
1:17:49listen to regaton.
1:17:52So yeah, I'm still listening to to to
1:17:55old music mainly and a lot of Mexican
1:17:58music. I love Mexican music.
1:18:11e or air or a band like that uses
1:18:15electronic uh elements. You know, in the
1:18:19'9s when I was listening to what what
1:18:21was the name of that band that sang? Uh
1:18:25I was going to say the name of the song,
1:18:26but it sounds terrible nowadays. Uh but
1:18:30yeah uh uh so electronic aspects of it
1:18:33but but I'm I'm not your your date to a
1:18:36rave to to to to uh don't invite me to
1:18:40to a visa. Yeah.
1:18:45But but the electronic music when it was
1:18:47really interesting like when even
1:18:50Kendrick was playing with it uh toying
1:18:53with it and you know that was that was
1:18:56electronic music can definitely
1:18:59uh be interesting. Yeah.
1:19:03And for a mu for a movie it it can
1:19:05definitely work but a movie should
1:19:08always be edited without music and then
1:19:10then if it really needs it you should
1:19:13add it. Now music I I I think life
1:19:17without music is boring as hell. So I've
1:19:20music all the time when I'm showering
1:19:22before sleeping when I wake up. Yeah
1:19:29I've lost completely a notion of time I
1:19:32have to admit. So uh I don't know
1:19:35whether we are
1:19:40okay time and space for last two
1:19:43questions.
1:19:44It's good. I like this conversation. It
1:19:46It went to very, you know, we we it it I
1:19:49think I never done such a free uh a true
1:19:54conversation. Yeah. Yeah.
1:19:56And you're a great audience here.
1:19:57Exactly.
1:19:58So,
1:20:00any more questions regarding We went
1:20:03through this preparation, script
1:20:05writing, producing, editing, almost all
1:20:08of it.
1:20:08What's your favorite thing about film
1:20:11making?
1:20:12about film making. Uh it became my
1:20:18it it's my way of living uh for good or
1:20:22bad. Uh all I do is make movies.
1:20:26So it it's either very pathetic and it
1:20:29means I have no life or it means that my
1:20:32life is film and I just surrender to it.
1:20:35I think it was Bukowski know that said
1:20:37find what you love and let it kill you.
1:20:40Um so yes I everything in my life uh is
1:20:46about the next movie and and about
1:20:49enjoying films and and I like this way
1:20:53of living. So it's everything. It's hard
1:20:56to split it. But again having said that
1:21:00I'm okay watching just one film a day. I
1:21:03don't need 10. I I don't need an
1:21:05overdose of films.
1:21:07Did I answer the question? I think so.
1:21:12And do you enjoy presenting your films
1:21:14like
1:21:15and and I guess there's also an ego trip
1:21:19about it? Of course. I I mean it's nice
1:21:21to write something and have uh uh people
1:21:24helping me do it and then having people
1:21:28talk about it, you know. So I never gone
1:21:30to therapy. I you know I just make
1:21:33movies. Um, sorry you were saying
1:21:36something.
1:21:39If you enjoy to present it like um,
1:21:43hello audience. This is what I was
1:21:45working on for some time and I'd love to
1:21:48hear your reactions and so on. So if you
1:21:51really enjoy it,
1:21:52I do uh, when it's the premiere of the
1:21:56film or when it's or even better when
1:21:59it's the second screen of the film.
1:22:00dreams was screened at the Berlin
1:22:04and this is the second time I show it.
1:22:06So I'm very curious to listen to your
1:22:08thoughts and uh when you say that
1:22:11certain things are troubling for you and
1:22:13and so on. I'm very interested because
1:22:16of I've I mean I don't make films for
1:22:18myself. I make them for for for
1:22:21audiences for people. It's an exchange.
1:22:23So yes, absolutely. But to discuss after
1:22:27Lucia or Sundown, I feel that it's not
1:22:32even me who made the film, you know, I'm
1:22:34a different person 10 years afterwards.
1:22:38I I take responsibility and I can talk
1:22:40about it, but sometimes I don't even
1:22:42remember the movie that well because of
1:22:43course I've never seen the films again
1:22:45because that's boring as hell. Uh the
1:22:49fun is to make a new one. um you know so
1:22:53so yeah I enjoy I I there's nothing more
1:22:57painful than having done two move shot
1:23:00two movies and have to promote a film
1:23:02that's just coming out that's horrible
1:23:05because you're like making an effort to
1:23:07remember who you were and where where I
1:23:09was in life so that's hard also I like
1:23:14when people are questioning me and when
1:23:16it's truly challenging but when you
1:23:19start an interview and And it's again,
1:23:21so tell me
1:23:23why you wrote this film. Yeah. You know,
1:23:25it's like, come on, you can Google that.
1:23:27You know, I I answer that a hundred
1:23:29times. But when it's a good
1:23:31conversation, I love it.
1:23:35And I and I love to I think it it's
1:23:37Tarovski. There's one very nice story
1:23:40about Tarovski
1:23:42uh talking about uh screening of the
1:23:45mirror where he's uh once the film
1:23:50finished the audience was having
1:23:53conversations about the meaning of it
1:23:55and and some were attacking Tarovski and
1:24:00you know the if if we imagine the
1:24:03context it was surely very heavy and
1:24:05serious and and and and
1:24:08I think the cleaning uh lady
1:24:12that watched the movie because she was
1:24:14there wanted to go home and and and and
1:24:16she she said, "Are you all stupid? The
1:24:19film's very simple. It's about this and
1:24:22this and the life of this man and and
1:24:24Tarovski couldn't agree more." She was
1:24:27so she said that's the film he made. He
1:24:29agreed and say just go home like Yeah.
1:24:33So I I like that too. you know when when
1:24:35when films are not necessarily have to
1:24:37be you know from an intellectual you
1:24:39know I I like when it after Lucia was
1:24:43was a very um rewarding experience
1:24:47because it was uh seen by a million
1:24:50people in Mexico. It sold a million
1:24:52tickets. So I was surprised because I
1:24:55made a small tiny budget film that
1:24:57nobody wanted to back. Uh it got the
1:25:00award at K but mainly it got many
1:25:02tickets sold and it was screened at
1:25:04schools and then it was also fun that I
1:25:08mean funny like like crazy that people
1:25:10were asking me so what do we do to stop
1:25:12bullying I have no idea you know I know
1:25:15nothing about bullying I just made the
1:25:16film because I'm equally troubled as you
1:25:19are about it but yes movies are for
1:25:22people that's why I'm also it's a
1:25:25bittersweet thing with streaming because
1:25:30the watching dreams I didn't sit through
1:25:32the screening of dreams the other day
1:25:33but I see like five minutes at the
1:25:36beginning and five at the end and to be
1:25:38in a room with with with so many people
1:25:40you know that's very very nice
1:25:44thank you very much it was uh lovely we
1:25:47we can do it again tomorrow if you want
1:25:50thank you very much
1:25:53we'll make it again in four years I'll
1:25:56make more movies so we have new things
1:25:57to discuss.

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