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KITH Founder: How to Build a Brand With Cult-Level Loyalty — Transcript

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0:00What does Kith [music] cost you
0:01personally that people can't see?
0:04>> That's a great question, man.
0:05Everything.
0:06It's cost me everything.
0:08>> Ronnie Fieg is the founder, CEO, and
0:10creative director of Kith, one of the
0:12most influential lifestyle brands in the
0:14world. He's built an empire around his
0:16personal taste, turning his point of
0:18view into collaborations with BMW, Nike,
0:21Giorgio Armani, and more.
0:22>> Give people more than what they pay for.
0:25That's the motto. I'm interested in
0:26people connecting to the brand. [music]
0:28The minute the curiosity goes away, it
0:30could all go to zero.
0:31>> Ronnie opens up 15 [music] years of the
0:33Kith archive, showing us how he thinks
0:35about product and stories that he's
0:37never told publicly.
0:38>> People are moving without purpose. I'm
0:40not cut [music] from that cloth, and I
0:41don't come from that era. Really, the
0:42brand is my life. So, the end point is
0:45when I die. You know, and nobody knows
0:46this. I haven't told this publicly, but
0:57>> No paid ads, no influencers, no
1:00wholesale. This man has built a monster
1:02without doing the stuff that everybody
1:04says you have to do.
1:06Stay till the end. We're going to give
1:06you guys the full playbook on how he
1:08built Kith. I want to tell you a quote
1:10that I heard from Colin Brickley, ASICS
1:12sport style director. I spoke to him
1:14last night about you.
1:15>> One of the best people, by the way.
1:17>> One of the best. What he said about you,
1:18he You know exactly what people want.
1:20You're obsessed with over-delivering
1:22value for the price. You always think as
1:25the consumer. You never want someone to
1:27pay X and get Y. You are a stickler on
1:29quality, and you will never cut corners
1:32for margin. You are the best in class in
1:35your commitment to the customer. He had
1:37a lot of things to say about you, but he
1:39just said it was a maniacal obsession
1:41that you would just never cut corners.
1:43Which makes sense, knowing the end
1:44product. So, let's just go [ __ ] deep
1:47into product. Won't you just walk us
1:48through like your actual process of a
1:51spark in your head to getting it on the
1:53shelf? I think a A of people are very,
1:55very curious what that looks like.
1:58>> Um so
2:00that process can range
2:03in in in so many different ways. Prod-
2:06product is created in a million
2:08different
2:09lanes, I would say. Like we have so many
2:12different ways of doing things, but
2:14when we think about footwear
2:15specifically, because that's the quote
2:17that Colin gave you about footwear, I
2:19spent 15 years on the floor, on the
2:22sales floor.
2:23Like seeing Imagine like being a buyer
2:26and open to
2:28call it 50 brands of footwear.
2:31And
2:32seeing product quarterly for what these
2:34brands are offering,
2:35but then also having the knowledge of
2:38why people gravitate towards certain
2:40product. Like what they like about the
2:41product.
2:42>> And is this just you being maniacal with
2:44asking questions when consumers come in?
2:45>> Yeah, cuz I was a salesperson first for
2:47years, for 10 years. I was selling
2:49footwear, right? So
2:53when people would come in,
2:55their questions and curiosity back then,
2:57before they were led by social media or
2:59led to like certain things because of
3:02seeing other people wearing it, they
3:04would come in and
3:06I would say 50% of it was functional and
3:0950% of it was fashion, you know? And
3:12on both ends, I got to see why people
3:15liked product. So the spark, the idea
3:18that I have
3:20on making certain product always stems,
3:22I think, from that.
3:24From from having my own sense of
3:27individuality and like liking certain
3:29things for my own reasons. My own
3:30reasons are building blocks for 31
3:33years.
3:34From 1995,
3:36putting boxes on shelves, but spending
3:39quality time with product, coming into
3:41the basement, opening boxes, seeing what
3:43they look like,
3:44feeling, touching, you know, like I got
3:47to see the Made in Italy era of boots.
3:50Like that was like that was incredible.
3:51The made in England Clark's like
3:53craftsmanship on another level that era,
3:56you know, and
3:58that that formed I think my taste in
4:01product is
4:03the ability to see so much product and
4:06having to have a point of view on what I
4:08liked.
4:09Can't like it all if there's like, you
4:11know, 500 styles on the wall, you're
4:13eventually going to pick what you like
4:15most. And then what you like most, you
4:17know,
4:18thinking about it from
4:20today, like seeing things for the first
4:22time and liking them for your own
4:24reasons is might not be a language that
4:27people understand today.
4:28>> think that's in existence anymore. I
4:29think everybody's influenced cuz I see
4:30it first on social and then how is it
4:32getting positioned in the marketplace?
4:33>> So familiarity is has become a very
4:37important I think starting point for
4:39people on how they can like something,
4:41right?
4:42For me it wasn't
4:44it wasn't about that at all. For me, I
4:46liked newness in footwear cuz I've
4:48gotten to see so many different styles
4:50over the years that if you were to tweak
4:52and change things by 10% it could make a
4:55huge difference, right? Within the
4:57category. So there's subcategories of
5:00footwear and I got to study all of them.
5:03And I got to love footwear
5:05like in totality. So I'm not a sneaker
5:08guy, I'm a footwear guy because brown
5:10shoes and boots to me are as important
5:12as as a sneakers. In fact, like some of
5:15the first products that I collected were
5:17Dolomite boots.
5:18>> Wow.
5:19>> There was a time when I had like 150
5:21pairs of Dolomites because my I would
5:23spend all of my money, my checks on
5:25boots, you know, and it got to the point
5:28where I was filling my parents garage
5:30with with these boots and
5:33it was an obsession that I can't explain
5:35because it didn't have resale value. I
5:36just loved the product so much that I
5:38needed to have all of it. And because it
5:40would disappear the next season, some of
5:42those styles would disappear and then
5:43you'd be offered new product and I
5:45didn't want to miss the opportunity on
5:47some of those products, you know? So,
5:50my my taste and how I started to collect
5:53in my life
5:55started with brown shoes and boots.
5:57So, fast forward to like when I have an
6:00idea and when it's
6:01you know, what my my ideas come from the
6:04catalog of all the product that I've
6:07seen.
6:08So, imagine I see one brand have this
6:11like really unique colorway of
6:14call it like a trail runner.
6:16And I see that colorway in a trail
6:18runner
6:19and
6:20I like the uniqueness of it within the
6:22category.
6:24And then
6:2620 years later, I'm working on
6:29a running shoes or retro running, call
6:32it.
6:33And I think back to like what's a unique
6:36color palette or unique color blocking
6:38or a unique point of view on a colorway,
6:41I go back in my brain for the catalog
6:43that I have and I get to like reference
6:46some of the stuff that I loved back
6:47then.
6:48And that's I think that that's the
6:49that's to me it's it's very rewarding to
6:52get to
6:54relive some of those moments that I
6:56loved so much in the '90s, early 2000s
6:58that I get to apply to product that I
7:00built today. And that's really what it's
7:02from. That's really where it comes from.
7:03>> So, ultimately you're
7:05a historian and you're going into the
7:07archives and you're kind of
7:08cross-pollinating, whether it be a
7:09colorway, maybe you're like, "Hey, I
7:10like this suede. I like this nubuck."
7:12And you're kind of mixing and matching
7:14and then going off of kind of whatever
7:17that DNA is from that past one and kind
7:19of infusing it with the Kith DNA?
7:21>> That's that's just that's just one
7:23example. There are so many different
7:25examples I could give you, but I'm just
7:27going to give you one that is really
7:31true to my history and my knowledge that
7:35I have in footwear.
7:37I don't know if there's anyone in my
7:39world of footwear that has seen as many
7:44products as as I've seen over the years.
7:46Like, it's 31 years now of
7:50really being immersed not only in
7:52athletic footwear, like I said, but also
7:54brown shoes and boots, which play a huge
7:56part as to how I think about footwear as
7:58a whole, and some of those elements are
8:01applied even to the athletic footwear
8:02world that we've been able to build.
8:05>> I'm confused in a sense that I think
8:07most people are like, are you the ICP?
8:10Are you the customer? Are you building
8:11this for you, or are you building this
8:13for your customer? Because I do feel
8:14like over the years your customer base
8:16has expanded where like I have my
8:1814-year-old nephew loving it, and then
8:20the guy that works here said he has
8:219,000 points on Kick. He's a 45-year-old
8:23guy that works works at this place. So,
8:25who's the customer, and how do you think
8:27through that Is it strategic, or is it
8:28just you?
8:29>> It's me.
8:30>> Wow.
8:31>> And I think that that's the that's like
8:33I think
8:34what what has been I think the hardest
8:37part of our business to replicate.
8:40Has I I think the point of view.
8:43So, the point of view and the lens has
8:45always been me. Every single footwear
8:47project, and that's why this book is so
8:48important for the 15 year, which we'll
8:50get into.
8:52That's why this book is so important,
8:53because there's 2,200
8:56styles of shoes
8:58in 15 years that I worked on.
9:01And I worked on every single one. Like
9:05never phoned in anything I've ever done
9:07in footwear. Never.
9:09And I think that you know, Colin's quote
9:12if you speak to anyone I worked with at
9:14any footwear brand, they'll have similar
9:16things to say, because we geek out about
9:18it. Like, it's like this is like my
9:20livelihood. I love this [ __ ] you know,
9:23and it's
9:24it has
9:25grown to become more than I ever wanted
9:28it to become, but the fact that I get to
9:30share it now with this amount of people
9:33globally, you know, like imagine
9:35releasing a shoe. So, like imagine
9:37starting the way I started and not even
9:39thinking
9:41that you know, I didn't know if I had a
9:43shot for this thing to be successful or
9:45not, and then it was locally.
9:48And now we release a shoe, and we have
9:50like lines outside of
9:53you know, Korea, Japan, France,
9:57UK, Canada,
10:00New York, Miami, LA,
10:02Dallas, Chicago, like it and then
10:05multiple cities globally in the same on
10:07the same day. And yes, other brands have
10:09had that, too, but I it'll I'll never
10:12I'll never take that for granted. It's
10:13like I I It still surprises me every
10:16day, you know?
10:17>> So, do you think like the strength of
10:18these brands is basically based on you
10:21said DNA? I would say it's taste. I'd
10:23love to know like how you define taste.
10:26Like in this Because everyone's talking
10:27about with AI that like taste is the new
10:29moat. Are you basically just saying that
10:31the creative director and or the person
10:33that's filtering product through their
10:34stories and their ideas, ultimately that
10:37is what taste is?
10:40>> Taste is um
10:43taste and style are the two most
10:45important words, I think, in our world
10:48for what we do, right?
10:50And my my taste
10:53has always been the same for what I
10:55like, but my style has evolved,
10:58right? So, like,
11:00you know, as you get older, you tend to
11:03wear different things, you know, like
11:05And it's funny because like I remember
11:08growing up, like, you you see your
11:09parents and you see like, you know, your
11:12elders kind of like
11:14dressing, wearing, listening to music,
11:16and
11:17kind of you're you're paying attention
11:18to their behavior, and you're thinking
11:20like, that'll never be me. I like what I
11:22like, and I'll never evolve from this.
11:24This is my you know, and then you find
11:26yourself
11:27you know, listening to [ __ ] Led
11:29Zeppelin,
11:30you know, with your dad in the car and
11:32enjoying it just as much as he does, you
11:34know, later on in life. So, it's it's
11:36just to me I feel like
11:39the consistency
11:41And I And I think that that's rare for
11:43there to be a brand where every product
11:47goes through one lens.
11:49And then I I think that the consistency
11:51is what makes it really
11:54easy to grow with.
11:56So, like
11:57I think that there's a red thread
11:59through a lot of what people see from
12:01the brand.
12:02And again, like to to me I'm just trying
12:04to build emotion.
12:06That's that's my job, you know, is to
12:08transfer the emotion that I have for the
12:09product to the people who are buying the
12:12product. I think there's no better
12:13example. I actually never heard that.
12:15That's That's brilliant distinction
12:16between taste and style. We were talking
12:18off camera of like how I got in was
12:20through the A6 and then I got into like
12:22my grown man Sebago's and I matured into
12:24Clarks. When I was in my fuckboy arrows,
12:25Del Toros, and now I'm getting dress
12:27shirts from you. So, I think that's an
12:29interesting kind of distinction that is
12:31just through your lens, but you're going
12:32to change, you know, just like at one
12:34point you're wearing, you know, the
12:35Mercers were joggers and now you're
12:36wearing baggy pants. And that's like on
12:38the style side, not on the taste side.
12:40Yeah, exa- exactly. Like taste is
12:42something
12:44Taste is unique to people, you know, but
12:46your taste if your taste could be swayed
12:49then, you know, you don't have a strong
12:51point of view.
12:53So, if you could be swayed by things
12:54that you see every day on social or
12:57you're influenced easily, then your
12:59taste won't be consistent.
13:01You know, so like
13:02it's it's been it's been easy for people
13:05to follow the brand for all of these
13:07years because
13:09the course has been additive.
13:12It hasn't been
13:13>> No.
13:14>> Yeah.
13:15>> It's the same through line the whole
13:16entire time.
13:17>> That's right. Ex- exactly. And people
13:18can see that I work on product that I
13:21love. And it's not for everybody and
13:23it's not meant to be for everybody.
13:25But it's through the lens of what I
13:26love, You know, so if one day we're
13:29working on
13:30a Kith Treats capsule,
13:32you know, that's the that's the fun
13:35category from the brand, the subcategory
13:37of the brand that's supposed to be the
13:38most fun is through Kith Treats, right?
13:40So,
13:42we have fun in that category. It's meant
13:44to be young. It's meant to be fun,
13:46right? And I don't forget about that kid
13:47that I was when I first started the
13:49brand and even before then,
13:52I want to offer product to people who
13:54like the fun portion of the brand or the
13:56fun category of the brand. Do I wear
13:57Kith Treats t-shirts today?
13:59Less. Less and less, I would say, right?
14:02>> Maybe on the playground with your nieces
14:04and nephews.
14:04>> Yeah, exa- exa- like in a fun setting, I
14:06would still wear it, but I don't but
14:07that's not like that's not my
14:10I've ev- I've evolved with age, you
14:12know? But, people that want to, you
14:15know, have that fun,
14:17you know, graphic program in their
14:19closet, you know, they have the ability
14:21to do that through the brand. And if we
14:24work on a Kith Treats capsule
14:27that releases once a month and it's fun
14:29and it's bright and it's graphic and it
14:31could be cereal-infused. It could be
14:33something that we do with, you know,
14:35Junior's Cheesecake. It could be It
14:37could be whatever for Kith Treats that's
14:40meant to be, you know, the F&B portion
14:42that's linked to a fun
14:45aspect. That's how we design We design
14:47backwards from it being
14:48fun and colorful, right? So, if we're
14:52doing that and then the next week
14:54we're releasing a Giorgio Armani
14:56collection,
14:58I understand why people get confused.
15:00It's because
15:01nobody's ever done that
15:03in our world. So, there are people that
15:06understand the brand because they've
15:08grown up with the brand and they
15:10understand both ends of the spectrum and
15:12everything in between.
15:13And then there are people who don't
15:15follow the brand daily, who haven't made
15:17it a part of their lifestyle, that see
15:19that one thing and then see the next
15:21thing and then they hate what they don't
15:23understand.
15:23>> your people anyway. You don't even give
15:24a [ __ ] about those people anyway.
15:25>> I've I've never cared about anyone who
15:27hasn't put the time in
15:29>> To see.
15:29>> to see and understand what it is that
15:31we've done over the years and who it is
15:33that we cater to. It's like a lot of
15:35people would prefer me to alienate
15:39you know, the left end of the spectrum
15:41and focus only on these more
15:43sophisticated, you know, products that I
15:45would wear mostly today, you know? But
15:48But the truth is that's not what the
15:49brand is. The brand was always meant to
15:51be this welcoming space
15:54that welcomes anyone who knows the
15:56difference. Knows the difference of
15:57what? Knows the difference between great
15:59and good.
16:01That's what the brand is. The brand is
16:04is created for people who know the
16:06difference,
16:07you know? And And that difference
16:09doesn't only come in one form of style
16:11or another or one kind of product or
16:14another. That applies to everything that
16:16we do,
16:17whether it's a BMW car
16:20or
16:21a cereal collaboration or
16:24a licensing deal with a film studio,
16:27you know? And when we make
16:29Back to the Future product, Back to the
16:31Future is one of the most culturally
16:32relevant movies
16:34in our lifetime.
16:36But
16:37there there are still, I believe, people
16:39who question why we would make product
16:42like that
16:43if we are able to do things that are so
16:45much more sophisticated and
16:48I guess
16:50elevated in the sense of price point and
16:53style.
16:54And I And I think that I just explained
16:56why it's important for us to cover all
16:59facets of the spectrum that we've built
17:01over the years cuz it started there.
17:03So, I'll never forget about that
17:04consumer, ever.
17:06And it's not a big It's not a big
17:08revenue driver for the brand. A lot of
17:10people may think that the licensing
17:12deals for some of these smaller and more
17:15fun
17:16releases that we do are a big part of
17:18the revenue driver, but it's not. It's
17:20really small, actually. But I love film.
17:22I love music. I love sports.
17:25That's what the brand is. It's
17:26everything I love. And if you grew up in
17:27Queens the way I did and took the F
17:30train from the last stop on 179th and
17:32Hillside, you know, to the city
17:34every morning and come back every night,
17:36you will see every [ __ ] thing
17:39possible under the sun
17:41on that 1-hour train ride.
17:43You'll see all different styles, all
17:45different cultures.
17:47And that's what New York is.
17:49And we're a New York brand. So I'm never
17:51going to be one thing or the other. I'll
17:53be everything that I am.
17:55That's all that That's all the brand can
17:56be.
17:57>> The genius part of this, anyone can say
17:59anything they want about you and your
18:00brand, but the last thing they can say
18:02is that you guys are ever stale. What I
18:04think that you've done a great job of,
18:06and for people out there listening, it's
18:07a great way to think about your
18:08business,
18:09is just you have all of these kind of
18:10new vessels in conjunction with where
18:13you're at in your life.
18:14>> Yeah.
18:14>> Like the kids division makes the most
18:16amount of sense when you're bringing a
18:17kid into the world. Like dude, I
18:19remember when you did like that stroller
18:21collab, yeah, and I was like, this
18:22[ __ ] his wife just wanted his
18:24boozy stroller and she [ __ ] with the
18:25stroller, right?
18:25>> Yo, that's exactly what happened.
18:27>> I knew it.
18:28>> You know what I mean? It's exactly what
18:29happened. In the conversation that we
18:30had with Bugaboo, it was at the time it
18:33it was at the time when, you know, I had
18:34my first kid. So,
18:37you know, it's all relevant to things
18:38that
18:39I love, you know, and I guess there
18:42there's only one
18:44release or project that we worked on
18:47that didn't stem from my passion, which
18:49was the golf collection with TaylorMade.
18:51You know, and that came from
18:53>> golf neither, bro. I don't know if you
18:54are. I'm not.
18:54>> You're not I I mean
18:56to be honest, I wanted to golf, right?
18:59But I wasn't this I wasn't I you know, I
19:01don't have the time to commit the way
19:03you have to to be great at it. So,
19:05you know, my VP of product, his name is
19:07Michael, he's been with me he's almost
19:09been with me since day one. I think he's
19:10been with me now like 13 or 14 years.
19:13And he's huge into golf. He loves golf
19:15and Nick, my COO, loves golf. So, we had
19:18a conversation and it was like
19:20we almost didn't do it because I'm like,
19:22"Nah." And for years I wouldn't even
19:24entertain the convo cuz I'm like, "I
19:25don't [ __ ] with golf." But then I was
19:27like, "You know what?
19:28These guys are part of a company
19:30culture. Like they are part of the the
19:32cloth of this thing. So, like
19:34you know, we went we had the convo and
19:36actually I got into golf learning about
19:39the product. And I I still ended up
19:42designing the hard goods.
19:44You know, even though I wasn't a golfer,
19:47my point of view came from the outside
19:49in, which was like
19:51everybody's so used to being traditional
19:53with the sport. What if we did this? You
19:56know, and then boom, the all black set.
19:58And then what if we did this? And boom,
20:00you had the multi, you know, it was the
20:01gradient metal pack for the for the you
20:04know, for the golf set. So,
20:06I believe it's one of the best, you
20:07know, hard good sets
20:10that that has ever existed in golf. And
20:12I've done a lot of research. When we
20:13went and we did that, I did a lot of
20:14research. So, we had a crazy mood board
20:17of everything that existed and I wanted
20:18to do something very different. So, we
20:20were able to do that. And you know, now
20:22it's going to evolve from there. But my
20:24point is
20:25I became interested in it
20:27and then I wouldn't have put my my my
20:30work or my ideas into it unless I felt
20:33like I was studied enough in it. So,
20:35like we did we did a lot of research.
20:36And that's the thing is like
20:38if if you feel comfortable
20:41applying your point of view and you
20:42think your lens can be impactful,
20:45then all of a sudden it becomes a new
20:47lane that you can then thrive in.
20:49Because now people they're waiting for
20:52the next thing we do with TaylorMade or
20:53the next thing we do with golf. We got
20:55people and and it was one of the most
20:57successful releases that we had in
20:59sports product that we built. I think
21:01it's the most asymmetric difference in
21:03product in the category.
21:05>> Yeah. Like your product next to the the
21:07next closest product in golf,
21:09>> Yeah. would argue is the biggest
21:10difference in any category. Maybe maybe
21:12the Bugaboo actually.
21:13Maybe that maybe that was a little
21:14different, but I I and I'm sure that so
21:17much of your audience is a golfer and
21:18they were feening for that.
21:20>> Yeah, and it's it's polarizing, you
21:21know, for a brand like us to take on
21:24golf when we did. You know, now it's a
21:26bit different, but when we did it for
21:28the first time and when we started
21:30working on it for the first time, we
21:31worked on it a year a year and a half
21:32before it released.
21:34I think it was
21:36very impactful in a way that
21:40people were excited that wouldn't
21:42typically get excited about golf
21:43products. So, that's that that actually
21:45worked. You know, so there there's so
21:46many different areas that we could touch
21:48on for what the brand does
21:50where our point of view can create
21:53emotion and can also bring a new
21:55consumer on board to love something that
21:58they wouldn't typically love. You know,
22:00and and I think that that's seeing that
22:02happen multiple times over and over
22:03again. Even like for example, like when
22:05I first worked on my ace on the first
22:07Asics shoe
22:09in '07, seeing the people that were
22:11coming in and buying them, I saw people
22:13look at the shoe for the first time.
22:15Like they didn't know what the shoe was.
22:17But yet, you know, think about that.
22:19That's 20 years ago. You know, 20 years
22:22later, the amount of Asics that people
22:24probably had, amount of pairs that they
22:26had in their you know, in the in the 20
22:28year span.
22:29>> Bro, you opened up that in-line big
22:30time. We were last talking to Colin
22:31about that last night. Like I bought
22:33in-line Asics Gel-Lyte's. That was never
22:36never an option for me until after the
22:38fact with you.
22:39>> I mean, that's a that's a great
22:41partnership.
22:41>> it's it's Listen, it was a great first
22:43project and now Asics stands for a lot
22:45more than a Gel-Lyte III. Similar to
22:46what we did, you know, where we expanded
22:48like our aperture really widened from
22:51there. You know what I mean? Like
22:53And and with Asics the same thing what
22:54sport style then be then became after
22:57that. It was an evolution of
23:00you know, having product that was
23:02relevant to the culture and how they
23:03were able to grow that. That was a great
23:05That was a great run. And still till
23:07today, you know, you're seeing retro
23:09product because the ASICS GEL-Lyte III
23:12at one point was a performance led
23:13product. That was a performance product
23:16from the brand and then became
23:17lifestyle. So, similar to what you're
23:18seeing today, like a lot of these
23:20retro tech, you know, that's what we
23:22call it. It's like
23:24they seem like they're relevant for
23:25today because they were ahead of their
23:26time when they released.
23:28And now they seem like they
23:30>> seem new.
23:30>> Everything's cyclical.
23:32>> But it's retro and exactly that's
23:33exactly right. It's it's it's all
23:34cyclical. I think such a good thing to
23:36look at, ironically I talked to Colin
23:38about this and I've done that with with
23:40with my core brand is
23:42looking at these like kind of tertiary
23:44brands, it's a great way to get your
23:46start. Like Diadora is a great example.
23:48>> Yeah.
23:48>> Like Reebok was obviously distressed,
23:50ABG bought it, now they're coming back.
23:52That's an example. I think ASICS was
23:54like your crowning jewel where it's like
23:56you're kind of just getting started and
23:58it's a perfect partnership where it
24:00makes sense for both of you guys. I
24:02think for brands out there, you got to
24:03look at that. Like Puma at one point had
24:05it. Now they're obviously they're a
24:06little bit bigger now. I'd consider them
24:07kind of one of the big boys, but I think
24:09people out there need to start looking
24:10at what are those kind of
24:11secondary brands.
24:13>> Yeah.
24:14>> Fila.
24:14>> That's another one.
24:15>> Right. I mean, when when you look at the
24:17when you look at this book and you get
24:19to see
24:21the archive but also like the
24:23progression
24:26in silhouette and design
24:28through the last 15 years.
24:32You know,
24:33and and it's not only with ASICS, there
24:35are, you know, multiple brands that are
24:37on the spine of this book actually. You
24:38could see it's
24:39>> We're going to pop that up there, guys.
24:40>> Yeah. It's it's it it's
24:43it's incredible
24:45for me, like what what when we were
24:47building the second floor
24:50of our office,
24:51literally it was the second floor of the
24:52building, but it was also our second
24:54office that we built, right?
24:57Before we started building,
24:59we had this rare opportunity to have
25:01this really big space,
25:03and it's just a very long space that
25:05cuts an entire block, right?
25:08And we had a rare opportunity to lay out
25:10all of the product. So, I decided to
25:12have the archivist, his name is Jordan.
25:16I had him lay out all of our footwear
25:19from day one, and I saved almost
25:21everything.
25:22Almost everything.
25:24There were a few pairs that we had to go
25:25out and buy, but for the most part, all
25:27of the samples were saved. So,
25:28unreleased samples that people have
25:29never seen.
25:30People going to There's 1,200 unreleased
25:32samples in this book that people have
25:33never seen.
25:35So, I I was able to look at,
25:38you know,
25:39chronologically, in order, from 2011 to
25:42date, 15 years of product, and the
25:45evolution when you walk the product, and
25:48that's why
25:49this exhibit that we have, we're going
25:51to have an exhibit for this book, and
25:52it's all of the shoes, and it's called
25:54Walk the Index, because in the back of
25:56this book,
25:57there is the index to show all of these
26:00unreleased samples
26:02in the context of
26:04date, you know, the context the
26:06chronological order, I think is very
26:07important for this. So, people can see
26:09the progression. So, when I walked it,
26:12and I got to see all of my work, all of
26:14my just the footwear, the work of
26:16footwear in one space,
26:19that really blew my mind, because what
26:22blew my mind wasn't
26:24like, all of this product is so
26:26beautiful, which it is, but that's not
26:28what blew my mind. What blew my mind was
26:30how much product can evolve
26:33and still stay the same.
26:35So, like, some of these products were
26:38the same silhouettes that I worked on 15
26:40years later,
26:41but how much different the product looks
26:43today than it did then.
26:45So,
26:47you know, we we really through the
26:49years, we've been through so much, and
26:51think about all of the [ __ ] that's
26:53happened.
26:54Think about all the different presidents
26:56we've had since we started. All of the
26:58different artists that have come and
27:00gone. All the different brands that have
27:01come and gone.
27:02>> Um when I was looking through the
27:0410-year book, I was just thinking about
27:05where I was at in my life in conjunction
27:07with the product. It's very wild to
27:09think.
27:10We were saying off camera, I think
27:11there's very very few brands that it's
27:14year seven and they're thinking about
27:15what is my 10-year book like. It's year
27:1712, what is my 15-year book like?
27:19>> Yeah. It's basically not
27:20>> I don't know any other brands. Another
27:21brand is I don't know if you know George
27:22from Represent. That's the only guy I
27:23know. I think he did a decade book, but
27:25I don't know anybody else that's
27:26thinking
27:28the way that you're thinking like that.
27:29>> Yeah, I mean it took a lot to get over
27:31the hump.
27:32You know, these brands have when you
27:35start a brand
27:36there's so much of that feeling that it
27:38could all go to [ __ ] in a day.
27:40It all could all go to zero and I think
27:42COVID had everyone feeling that way. I
27:44felt like the brand was going to go away
27:46during COVID.
27:48>> Really?
27:48>> No, at the height of COVID. You know,
27:49it's it's easy to forget
27:52what COVID was. COVID was Armageddon,
27:54you know, like I was like, oh it's it's
27:56we're never going to get over this [ __ ]
27:58and
27:59you know, people are going to stop
28:00caring about product the way that they
28:02do today.
28:03Like back then I'm saying, the way they
28:05they cared about it before I would say.
28:08That's going to become less of a
28:09priority. Like now it's about family and
28:11life and death and I knew where I was
28:13emotionally. So I was like, this is
28:15going to this is going to this thing is
28:16going to topple over.
28:18And not only for the Kith brand, but in
28:19general, I felt like the category of
28:21retail was going to be in trouble, like
28:23real trouble.
28:24>> [snorts]
28:25>> And it is today, but not for the not for
28:27those reasons. But
28:29I think I I I think that
28:31what when you get to survive some of the
28:34scariest moments, it's like it's like um
28:37it's like in life sometimes you go
28:39through certain things like dramatic
28:42moments in your life where you think
28:43it's like the end all of like there's
28:45like there's no getting past certain
28:47moments where you can't see past it, you
28:49know? And it's no different for anyone
28:52who's starting a brand. You'll go
28:54through challenges where you'll feel
28:56like you're not going to be to be able
28:57to make it through it, you know? And and
28:58I've had many of those challenges.
29:00>> I don't think anybody out there
29:02listening
29:03>> Yeah.
29:03>> would guess that you had that. Outside
29:05of Outside of COVID, what's another
29:06moment in time where that you were
29:07scared that you weren't going to make
29:09payroll, you took too big of a bet? Was
29:11there any moment you can look back that
29:12you're like, "We might not make it."?
29:14>> Yeah, it was in the very beginning, you
29:16know? In the very beginning, I had those
29:18challenges. And then
29:20you know, sometimes you make certain
29:21bets. I'll give you a good example. We
29:23we had a store when we first started, we
29:25were in the Atrium store, and we were in
29:27We were on Broadway and Bleecker.
29:29I was on a 10-year lease. I was in year
29:31seven. I had 3 years left on my lease.
29:34And the traffic that we were getting,
29:35this is after Kith expanded into the
29:38Atrium space, so we had the whole
29:39corner.
29:41I used to get up So, I lived downtown at
29:43the time in the financial district. And
29:46I used to get off the train,
29:48the 6 train, on Bleecker and look up and
29:50see this beautiful building on
29:51Lafayette.
29:52And at the time, and this is going to be
29:54hard for people to understand,
29:57above Houston, on Lafayette, not below
29:59Houston, cuz I know what people are
30:00going to think when I say that,
30:02above Houston,
30:05there wasn't a [ __ ] soul walking on
30:07that block
30:09where that building was.
30:10And I remember feeling like the traffic
30:13that we were getting on Broadway and
30:14Bleecker,
30:1550% of the traffic was not the relevant
30:19traffic to the brand. They were just
30:20walking in and it was like
30:22this traffic from Broadway that I didn't
30:25love.
30:26It was just like people who were walking
30:27in and out of the space
30:29that I felt stopped us from being able
30:32to focus on one customer at a time.
30:35So, I wanted the space I wanted the
30:38brand to be like more of a destination.
30:39So,
30:41walking out of And this is a great story
30:42cuz I've never told this, but walking
30:44out of off the 6 train and seeing this
30:46building,
30:47that building, if you pull up pictures
30:49of 337,
30:50you know, Lafayette,
30:52it was like
30:53I think that, you know, there were a
30:54couple of there were eight different
30:56businesses being run in this building.
30:58And some of them were like I I I
31:00remember, you know, I think certain
31:02people got locked up cuz they were
31:03running like a sweatshop out of there,
31:05you know?
31:06And and and the facade of the building,
31:08it looked like the thing was going to
31:09[ __ ] crumble. And I used to say, this
31:12is the perfect [ __ ] space. If I ever
31:14get this building, this is going to be
31:16where I place the brand.
31:18So, 7 years later, I get a call about
31:21the building,
31:22right?
31:23And the opportunity was for us to get
31:25into that building and they would
31:26rebuild the space for me to sign a
31:29longer like a long lease on it, which
31:31would mean that I had to break the lease
31:33where I was, pay to break the lease,
31:36take
31:37Oh, and we were successful, very
31:38successful in the space on Broadway and
31:40Bleecker.
31:41I would have to break that lease,
31:44interrupt the successful business where
31:46I was getting a lot of traffic,
31:48and then move to a space where there was
31:50no traffic,
31:52but it was bigger and it was its own
31:54space, meaning it was a standalone
31:55building for the brand.
31:57And I could envision what it would look
31:59like, and if you saw the building, you
32:01can never have the vision for what it
32:02can potentially look like, but I was
32:04able to like see past it and really
32:07build up this dream of what the space
32:08can feel like, right?
32:10So, we did that.
32:12And I took the space and I paid
32:15like some of the first
32:18like real money that I got to see, I
32:20paid to break a lease with that money.
32:24So,
32:25it was a huge risk and a huge gamble.
32:29And I remember
32:31finishing building the space and I felt
32:34and I thought this was my this was my
32:37thought process, okay? If we were
32:38getting 800 people a day in the old
32:40space on Broadway and Bleecker,
32:42the idea was for me to have 300 people
32:44come a day and for me to measure it.
32:46Yeah, and and hot it No, not so much the
32:49conversion rate. It was about the
32:50service.
32:52What kind of relationships do we want to
32:53have with the consumer coming in? I
32:55wanted to maintain the the relationships
32:57we had when I was a small space in the
32:59back of Atrium and it was one-on-one.
33:02We were able to build relationships with
33:03the consumer.
33:05Then we expanded and we were getting the
33:06traffic coming in from Broadway, not
33:08Bleecker.
33:09And that changed. It changed the the
33:10dynamic.
33:12And I was like, okay, I want to get 300
33:14people in the space a day. So, in the
33:17middle of building the space, which took
33:18a year,
33:20longer maybe, because they they
33:21literally took down all of the brick and
33:24rebuilt it and had to maintain the look
33:26of the building.
33:28And through the process of rebuilding
33:29it, I was I started to get like really
33:31nervous around us being able to maintain
33:34the traffic I needed to even break even.
33:37>> And for context too, this is obviously
33:38you're reinvesting in the brand to
33:40start. This is finally you maybe took
33:41some chips off the table and now you're
33:43re-putting those chips back in to take
33:44this big bold bet.
33:45>> I never took the chips off the table.
33:47They By the way, and this is something
33:48that people should know,
33:51I've never taken the chips off the
33:52table.
33:53The only way we've gotten to be as big
33:55as we are is I've always put the chips
33:58back in.
33:59I've been fortunate enough where I made
34:02investments early on. Now, yeah, I I I
34:04make a paycheck, right? But in terms of
34:07a profit share, all of the profit has
34:09gone back into the company. That's how
34:11we've been able to grow.
34:12>> That's a nice balance sheet. I know that
34:13balance sheet looking nice.
34:14>> Yeah, so so the the capex yearly for us
34:18in building these stores and building
34:19offices and, you know, our expenses are
34:22are
34:23it's substantial, right? And and I'm
34:25proud to say that we've been able to do
34:27it self-funded, right? So,
34:30pouring the money back into the business
34:32here, building this building, and then
34:34before opening the building, I was like
34:36I was petrified that we wouldn't have
34:38the traffic. So, here's an example of
34:39like where I thought we wouldn't make
34:41it.
34:42But, the second month after we opened,
34:45I was already getting the same traffic
34:47we did on Broadway in a space that was
34:49supposed to get literally I wanted a
34:51third of the traffic. Now, we're getting
34:53the same traffic, and then from there
34:55we've surpassed the traffic that we were
34:57getting on Broadway.
34:59And that that was changing literally
35:02changing human behavior for people to
35:04walk north of Houston on Lafayette.
35:08I was really worried about that. And and
35:10honestly that move in that specific
35:12location in that building is what helped
35:14the brand grow. Without that location,
35:16without that global flagship, I don't
35:18think it is what it is today.
35:20>> Yeah, I think so many people had a
35:21missed
35:23They underestimate having the wrong
35:25person where your stuff or being in the
35:26wrong look it could be the
35:28it could do the complete opposite for
35:29you.
35:30>> Yeah.
35:30>> I forgot which brand, they actually paid
35:32like the situation from Jersey Shore to
35:34wear the competitors brands.
35:35>> Oh, [ __ ]
35:36>> So, I feel like maybe you were getting
35:37just the wrong customer or not you know,
35:38so you moved.
35:40>> Yeah, and it wasn't it wasn't
35:41necessarily the wrong customer, and and
35:43that's not the way we thought about it.
35:44It was the the inability to build
35:47relationships with the customer. But,
35:49when you think about opening a location
35:50where it becomes destination on
35:52Lafayette cuz there was no walking
35:53traffic there.
35:55Really, there was no walking traffic
35:56between Bleecker and and Great Jones.
35:59>> You sound like Grotman with Miami. He
36:01took a bet on some kind of adjacent
36:02neighborhood early.
36:04>> Yeah.
36:04>> And it paid off huge.
36:05>> Yeah, I mean look, this was still one
36:07block away from or two blocks away you
36:09could say with Crosby.
36:11>> is is a lot in New York.
36:13>> It is, but but but my my the point of
36:15the story is in saying this is like
36:18the challenges that you need to overcome
36:22typically you know, in becoming a
36:23successful business
36:26you're going to need to be
36:26uncomfortable.
36:28And you're going to need to throw up a
36:29few times.
36:30And I did.
36:32And I've had sleepless nights,
36:34you know,
36:35and my my wife can attest to this. She's
36:37been like my guardian angel. Also,
36:39without her, I don't think any of this
36:41is possible, too, cuz you need you need
36:43the support emotionally to get through a
36:44lot of the [ __ ] And I've been through a
36:46lot. And I I think that and I've had
36:48this conversation with multiple people,
36:49you know, some one of my favorite people
36:51to speak to
36:52about [ __ ] that's going down and
36:56what I currently am thinking at the time
36:57is Marcus Troy.
36:59He's one of my favorite people and he's
37:00a
37:01>> Imagine since the beginning.
37:02>> great artist.
37:04Been you know, he's he's been a friend
37:06since the very very beginning and knows
37:08me before I started Kith.
37:10And that's someone that will keep me
37:12honest and also give me his opinion that
37:14really matters.
37:15>> That's right. That's the blog OG.
37:17>> Yeah. And and be and be level-headed,
37:19you know, and and I think that
37:22>> [sighs]
37:22>> you know, it's a conversation that I
37:25have
37:26I've had multiple times with a few
37:27people recently on how the end result of
37:31what we do makes it look too easy.
37:34Or it's too Sometimes it looks
37:38polished in a way and that's what we do.
37:41Like we're so interested in giving you
37:43the best
37:45content around product where the product
37:48looks
37:50we maximize the potential what it could
37:52look like.
37:53And the problem with that sometimes
37:55it's not a problem. It's just it's just
37:57the bystandard of it that
38:00we make it look easy because you don't
38:02see the struggle and the challenges it
38:04takes
38:05to to get from ideation to completion.
38:09And there's so many hands,
38:11you know, like when I'm in the in the
38:12design meeting today,
38:15you know, and the kind of people
38:18the positions that are
38:20involved in bringing product from A to
38:23Z.
38:24It's
38:26it's massive. It's like, you know,
38:27thinking about from design direction,
38:31which is me, to designer, to assistant
38:33designer, to production, to development,
38:36to merchandising,
38:38to you know, and from the production
38:40side you have then logistics.
38:43It becomes layered, but it doesn't it
38:45doesn't impact
38:47the creativity around the product. What
38:49it does is it impacts
38:51how complex it can be to ship product
38:54globally, to make product in time for a
38:57season globally. How many sample rounds
38:59will you see? How many times do we get
39:01to fit the product? Like, how many times
39:04will we get to change or will we get to
39:06change not how many times, but will we
39:07get to change the fabric once we see the
39:09fit?
39:11So, there there's
39:14countless hours and energy and time
39:18being committed by so many people at the
39:19brand to deliver this product. But the
39:22what people see is the finished you
39:25know, is the finished product in the
39:27content rollout, which we spend also a
39:30lot of time and energy on,
39:32where people forget that it takes this
39:34much work to get it done. And it does
39:36take a lot of work. Like, people will
39:37look at a hoodie or a T-shirt and think,
39:41okay, like they put a logo on a [ __ ]
39:44hoodie. And no, man, like no, like if
39:48you look at for I'll give you an
39:49example. If you look at the sun faded
39:51hoodie that we just released for for the
39:52Yankees or we're we're releasing this
39:54week, but by the time this comes out it
39:55would have released. The process that it
39:58took to get that right, there's six
40:00samples
40:02in the process of getting that fade to
40:05look right. So, it doesn't look blotchy,
40:07so the color is perfect, so the
40:09embroidered logo is perfect, so the fit
40:11is perfect. It's like people assume that
40:14it's just like do this and that and get
40:17X in return. But it's
40:20way more complex than that even with the
40:22more simple blocks and product that
40:26people
40:28take for granted.
40:29>> Yeah, there's a massive team in each one
40:30of those kind of sub-buckets.
40:31>> Not even about the thrills, silhouettes,
40:33the fit, everything. Not only about the
40:34team which is super important, just the
40:36amount of steps and hours it takes to
40:39make a product and a garment and a
40:41a
40:42a and a sock or tea like it's
40:45it's not a
40:48you know, here's a block, apply this
40:50fabric in this color and and call it a
40:52day. Even when you apply and this is by
40:54the way, I'll give you a little 101.
40:56Some of the biggest brands in the world
40:58you'll go into that brand whether it's a
41:00fashion house or or a store in the mall.
41:04Doesn't matter. From from the lowest to
41:06the highest in terms of price point.
41:08You'll walk in and you'll try a shirt
41:09on.
41:11And it won't fit you.
41:14And then you'll say, "Oh, it's just it's
41:15not made for my body type. That's why it
41:17doesn't fit." But no, that's not true.
41:20At some point, that body in that block,
41:23let's say the name of the style is
41:25Henry. You're trying on a Henry
41:27button-down. That's what it's called.
41:30At one point, that Henry block fit.
41:33But they changed the fabric. And when
41:35they changed the fabric, they didn't
41:36refit it.
41:38So, you know, if if you take a heavier
41:40fabric, all of a sudden that piece is
41:42going to lay different on you.
41:44And I'm telling you for a fact that
41:47a big percentage of the brands don't
41:50refit with different fabrics and they
41:52use the same block. It happens a lot.
41:55We don't skip those steps.
41:57You know, and I'm such I'm such a
41:58stickler for this [ __ ] and
42:01you know, I I've also been the fit model
42:03for so many years.
42:04>> going to mention that. That's [ __ ]
42:05psycho.
42:06>> I spend, you know,
42:08I'm I I've now and this is when within
42:10the last year, I've taken a step back
42:13from fitting every product. I still fit,
42:16but I don't fit every single men's
42:18product. But I would fit 4 hours a week.
42:213 to 4 hours a week. It got to the point
42:24where like I was spending
42:26so much time on it that
42:29it was affecting everything else I was
42:30doing. So, but my point is for years,
42:33I'm talking about for 13 to 14 years of
42:36our 15-year existence,
42:38there was a consistent eye on the fit of
42:41every single SKU we put out.
42:43So, when when you walk in to a Kith
42:45store
42:46and you're trying on the product, and
42:48obviously there are some products that
42:50are meant to fit slimmer and some that
42:52are meant to fit cropped, but
42:54every product that you see there
42:57has been fit for the fabric.
42:59And that is something that a lot of
43:00brands skip on.
43:01>> Yeah, people don't, you know, if it's
43:0350/50 cotton poly or 70/30, it's a
43:05completely different drape on the body.
43:07>> Yeah, but yeah, but also you'll apply
43:09like an Oxford to a shirt and then
43:10change it to wool and not refit it
43:13because you know that the block worked
43:14for you before.
43:16So, a lot of these brands are taking
43:17shortcuts. That's the thing is like
43:18that's what I mean by
43:21you know, so many people don't realize
43:23the amount of work that we put in and
43:25love and time and and a tender loving
43:27care into product is everything, man.
43:29>> A lot of passion in his eyes there. I
43:30saw it through the glasses. There were
43:31tender loving care.
43:32>> Yeah. And by the way, I have a
43:33sensitivity to light, which is why I
43:35always wear sunglasses, which people
43:37[ __ ] you know, have a lot to say
43:39about that.
43:40>> no issues, bro. Love your life, bro.
43:41>> No, thank you, man. Stay comfy over
43:43there. That's what I'm saying. [ __ ] you.
43:45>> Ronnie Fieg, margin profile, top-down or
43:47bottom-up? Is it just build the best
43:50[ __ ] and then I need to hit this margin
43:52profile for the MSRP?
43:53>> No, it's it's a lot simpler than that.
43:55Yeah. Give people more than what they
43:56pay for.
43:57That's the motto.
43:59So, like for example, if we feel like we
44:01could sell a product for
44:05double what
44:07I could sell it for. I won't do it just
44:10cuz I could.
44:12So,
44:13it's this is and this has a lot to do
44:15with this is a merchandising exercise
44:17and I have someone who's been with me
44:18for a long time. His name is Alex. He's
44:20great at what he does. We sit down with
44:22every single item. I'm [clears throat]
44:23still doing the buy. Like I'm
44:28I'm I'm sitting down for like
44:31at times it could be 4 hours, 5 hours a
44:33week where I'm buying the product,
44:35looking at the product, pricing the
44:36product. So, during the buy we go
44:38through the pricing.
44:39And we're deciding like what what
44:42the garment should cost based on the
44:44cost of the goods, you know?
44:46But the goal always in every product
44:48that we make is to give the consumer
44:50more than what they pay for.
44:52Now, some consumers
44:55they have a skewed perception as to what
44:57things should cost.
44:59And that has to do with
45:01what they're seeing from fast
45:04you know, fast fashion or other
45:06retailers that are selling product for a
45:09lot less based on A, the quantity that
45:12they're buying and B, the fit and the
45:13quality of the fabrics. Like there's a
45:15lot that goes into it. So, a t-shirt is
45:18not a t-shirt and a hoodie is not a
45:19hoodie. And I give you the lowest form
45:21of of of product to understand what I'm
45:23saying.
45:24>> your your tees are heavyweight. Like
45:25that you know, they're not little crap
45:27All Style 1301s. Like it's legit.
45:29>> And it's not only about the fabric
45:31weight. It's also about the construction
45:33of the of the of the product, too. And
45:35where the product is made. You know, so
45:38a lot of our products a lot of our
45:39t-shirts come from Peru and a lot of our
45:42fabrics are very expensive. And I like
45:44the hand feel of these of of a lot of
45:46the t-shirts that we make because
45:49you know, Peruvian cotton is amazing,
45:50but also we don't only make t-shirts in
45:52Peru.
45:53For some of the t-shirts that we make in
45:55Asia, in China, the washes are very
45:58important, too. And people have this
45:59misconception about China. Like,
46:02China makes amazing product. Amazing
46:06product, you know? And
46:08China has the capabilities of making
46:11products that a lot of other countries
46:12don't have.
46:13You know, so
46:15this misconception around where the
46:17product is made. There are great
46:19factories in a lot of these countries
46:21that may you know, be perceived as a
46:24less expensive make. But it's it's all
46:27about quality control, the fabrics that
46:30you're using, the construction. Like,
46:31there's a lot more that goes into it.
46:33It's like people that talk about
46:35product the end result of product, but
46:37not understanding what goes into it. You
46:39know, when I was when I was younger
46:41at David Z and we were working on the
46:43Sebago product. I flew to DR where the
46:46product was made to learn and I spent 3
46:49weeks in the factory.
46:51Going from one station to the next and
46:54literally spending the time with the
46:56factory employees to learn how to make
46:58the footwear. I spent 3 weeks
47:01learning how to make it and then working
47:03on the line in each one of the lines
47:06which were doing, you know, they they
47:07have served different purposes. One is
47:09like stitching the upper. The other one
47:12is cementing the upper to the sole. The
47:15other line is literally hand sewing the
47:17mock stitch. So,
47:19I got to learn
47:21the process of making a shoe from A to
47:23Z.
47:25I can make a shoe from A to Z given the
47:27right machinery.
47:29>> Ronnie the cobbler. Let's go.
47:30>> Yo, but but the problem is like I could
47:32speak to it cuz I know it.
47:33>> Yeah.
47:34>> Right? The problem becomes when people
47:35speak to to product and they don't know
47:37how the product is made.
47:39And today, you could learn about that.
47:41>> Dude, it's so crazy. Like, people don't
47:43understand like a simple t-shirt.
47:45>> Yeah.
47:45>> Like, you could give a silhouette that
47:47you like, go in and like you know what
47:49they do? They it's like the Manila
47:51folder that thing and they and they
47:52outline it. Like, I've gone in and like
47:54built my own t-shirts.
47:56>> Yeah.
47:57>> It's not that hard to start to get kind
47:59of down the initial stuff. It's a lot of
48:00fun. That's a great piece of advice for
48:02people out there to to take is like
48:05think about how much you learned in
48:07those 3 weeks in that factory.
48:09>> You You know there's a store in Japan in
48:12in Tokyo
48:13that only sells white t-shirts.
48:17And there's a thousand different bodies
48:20of a white t-shirt.
48:21>> That's that idea that guy had. I'm a I'm
48:23a silhouette guy, bro.
48:24>> Yeah, so so
48:26>> Can you shout out the name of that
48:26store?
48:27>> I don't I don't know the name. Someone
48:28Someone Someone was telling me about it
48:30and it's like my closet.
48:33Like when I go and I start shopping
48:36reference shopping and I go vintage
48:38shopping and I also I want to understand
48:40the market also for and you have to to
48:43know where you sit the context of where
48:44you sit and what we do. If you look at
48:47And Kin, which is our more elevated
48:49price point, more expensive fabrics,
48:52we have like
48:55five different fits of t-shirts.
48:58>> I got to look into this. I don't know
48:59about this.
48:59>> Yeah, so so you could really like geek
49:02out and your favorite you could go to
49:04the store and that's what I would
49:05recommend is going to the store and
49:07trying on all these different fits and
49:09their different weights, too.
49:11I'm wearing one of them today under this
49:12jacket and
49:14I obsess I obsess over that and and
49:17those are the things
49:19and people are going to watch and
49:20probably think to themselves like a
49:21t-shirt's a [ __ ] t-shirt. I'll go to
49:23[ __ ] Uniqlo.
49:24>> You're talking to the wrong
49:25>> I'm with you on that, man. I'm searching
49:26right now for a good wide semi-crop
49:29right now.
49:29>> There There you go.
49:30>> I can't really find it.
49:31>> Live can you please send him the LXD?
49:34>> yeah, we got to we got to talk about
49:35that.
49:35>> Send him the Send him the white pima
49:37pima cotton LXD.
49:39>> Is that from Peru? The pima Peru?
49:41>> Yeah, you're going to you're going to
49:42like that.
49:42>> Nice.
49:43>> You're going to like that.
49:44>> We're going to pop them up and give them
49:45a shout.
49:46>> Yeah, there you go.
49:47>> All I care about is the silhouette and
49:49just make sure the wash is good after
49:50the fact.
49:51>> Yeah.
49:51>> Yeah.
49:52>> Yeah, and and and I that's why that's
49:53why I travel to Japan a lot, and that's
49:56>> Please give them game on Japan cuz I
49:57just went to Tokyo for the first time.
49:59Holy [ __ ] What was I doing with my
50:02whole existence?
50:03>> I'm looking at buying a space there now,
50:05like
50:06buying an apartment there. Um
50:09>> That's a that's a
50:10tough but rational negotiation with your
50:12wife.
50:13>> My wife
50:13>> the way, that's exactly what it is.
50:15>> [laughter]
50:15>> Dude, that that's
50:16My wife, she loved it. She got sick.
50:18Actually, we're going to go back soon.
50:19>> Yeah, just There's a couple blocks
50:21there. I don't know the names of the
50:22blocks.
50:23>> Sure.
50:23>> We spent so much time in there.
50:26>> Yeah.
50:26>> It is incredible.
50:27>> It's It's my It's my happy place. You
50:29know, Junya
50:31has gotten to show me You know, Junya is
50:33my best friend. He's the director of the
50:34business out there in Japan.
50:37I know him for
50:3917, 18 years now, and I've gotten You
50:42know, I'm lucky enough to have
50:44a friend who really takes care of me
50:46when I go there and shows me things that
50:48I've never seen before and sets up my
50:51itinerary and you know, I I get to see
50:53it through his eyes, which is, I think,
50:56so important when you go there is to
50:57have the right person to, you know, to
50:59show you around.
51:01But it really it taught me
51:03It made me such a more purposeful
51:06collector.
51:08And
51:10there's so many things that I collect
51:12that I don't talk about
51:14or show people because I do it for
51:16myself, and it really
51:17>> Name just a couple.
51:20You're not a golf guy. I I know
51:22you're a watch guy.
51:23>> No, I I am a watch guy. I I'm obviously,
51:25and people have seen my collection in my
51:27my car collection
51:29with the BMWs that I've gotten very
51:31obsessive over.
51:32But I also
51:34I'm one of the biggest footwear
51:35collectors in the world,
51:37you know? And and that started at a very
51:39young age
51:40since '95. But
51:42I do it I do it for me. You know, I'm
51:44still buying on average probably six to
51:46eight pairs of shoes on eBay a week.
51:49And and it's and it's product from like
51:51the early 2000s, DS.
51:53>> What's the latest shoe that you bought
51:54that you're excited about?
51:56>> I just bought a pair two pairs of Croc
51:59Roshe at HTM's, Air Force 1's.
52:02>> Nice.
52:02>> There's a white pair and a brown pair
52:05that I bought. I had multiple people
52:06looking for them. So, I actually might
52:08buy another set now. I already own a
52:10set. So, I bought a second set like and
52:13these are things that I just I I I need
52:15to have because it it
52:18represents
52:20a time
52:22that I think helped build
52:24a category or you know
52:27a culture.
52:28The time that helped literally build a
52:30culture.
52:31And I don't buy it for value and I don't
52:34buy it to ever think I'm going to sell
52:36it. It's a weird thing because I don't
52:38buy it to wear them because a lot of
52:40these products you can't even wear
52:41anymore.
52:42It's a strange
52:44it's a strange hobby that I have that I
52:46have to just
52:47>> You have like a museum set up though? Is
52:48it aesthetically as beautiful
52:49>> No, I have No, it's it's it's a it's a
52:51couple of storage units. Um
52:55>> That's Ronnie's weakness. He's hoarding
52:56the shoes in the storage units. Those
52:57storage units will get you, too. They
52:59will mentally bump that price up.
53:01>> Yes, they did. And and then I had to
53:02temperature control it and all that. But
53:04like honestly, it's what makes me who I
53:06am, I would say.
53:08You know, and and I'm I'm really a
53:10product of that
53:12environment back then.
53:14And I'm trying to carry that torch
53:15forward. You know, I'm trying I'm trying
53:17to do what I can and I have a couple of
53:18projects lined up that I think will
53:21speak to that era more than anything in
53:24the past decade
53:25to really shine through because
53:28things have gotten a little muddy
53:31in the category.
53:33>> And By category you mean footwear?
53:35>> Yeah, I I would say like
53:37for special footwear, I think a lot of
53:38people are buying products for the wrong
53:40reasons and
53:42I want to bring substance back to
53:44product
53:45in a way where,
53:47you know, people start
53:49And And there are elements of that. I
53:50can't speak to it now, but there are
53:52ways that we are
53:54We're spending a lot of time thinking
53:55about how to create
53:58community
54:00with of like-minded individuals to buy
54:02products for the right reasons and care
54:03about products for the right reasons,
54:05and I just want I want people to get
54:07back to that mindset where they're
54:09buying it for themselves and not for
54:10anything else.
54:12>> I want to round out the product side
54:13with just a very simple question on both
54:15the footwear side and then let's just
54:16call it the garment side. Let's just say
54:18there's a guy out there that wants to
54:19get your attention. He's doing $3
54:21million a year. May- Maybe it's footwear
54:22or maybe it's apparel. He chose you.
54:24>> Yeah.
54:25>> The shoe.
54:26What are the first three things you look
54:28at? What are you evaluating on the shoe
54:29side and the garment side? Cuz I know
54:31you're meticulous and psycho on the
54:32details.
54:33>> I am. It depends on the brand for what
54:35I'd look for, right? Cuz I think
54:37different brands serve different
54:38purposes of the end result and the
54:41emotion that you're supposed to have
54:42towards product.
54:44How true to the DNA Like how
54:47How true are they to the DNA of the
54:49brand?
54:50Like did you try to make
54:53one brand
54:55appear as another brand?
54:57Did you try to over like
54:59>> Embed your DNA with their DNA?
55:01>> Yeah. Or Or Or like, you know,
55:03overshadow. Did you try to overshadow
55:06their the DNA of what makes that brand
55:08special or what made you like that brand
55:10in the first place?
55:12Right? So, some people over design and
55:14that becomes an issue where
55:17it might look familiar, but you're not
55:18getting enough of the brand in return.
55:22And I think that with the amount of
55:24brands that I've been able to work with,
55:27my love for those brands
55:30need to be evident in the product that I
55:32build.
55:34Right? So, like
55:35>> How much of it does it have to be kind
55:37of embedded in the product versus in the
55:39storytelling and content and
55:40go-to-market around it?
55:41>> I think it's both. You know, I think
55:43today
55:44and things have changed, you know, like
55:46times have changed, but
55:48what I would say, I think in today's
55:50world, 50% of the reason people buy
55:53anything is the product and then the
55:55other 50% is is the storytelling and the
55:57content around the product. You know, I
55:59walked into a store
56:01I I would say I buy product
56:03100% of the time
56:06for 100% of the product.
56:08Anything else
56:10is complementary and is a cherry on top,
56:12but
56:13I walked into a store
56:15I just came back from Portland last week
56:17and I walked into a store called Machus,
56:19which is a great store out there.
56:21>> It's been there a long time out there,
56:22right?
56:22>> it's been there it's been there a long
56:23time and they're great. I thought that
56:25their their shop was a breath of fresh
56:28air for me because
56:30I didn't know 80% of the brands that
56:32were in there and I still spent a lot of
56:34money and bought a lot of product for
56:35myself. Cuz I'm still that guy. Like
56:39I don't need to know the brand. I need
56:41the product to be incredible.
56:44So, I tried on a bunch of stuff and I
56:45loved a bunch of stuff and it's still
56:47this many years later
56:49I still get that excited, you know,
56:51about product that I'm seeing for the
56:53first time, which was refreshing.
56:54>> Is that what it's all about? Is that
56:55like if you again I was mind-blown when
56:58we're we're going to guys, we're going
56:59to get into the collaborations and the
57:00licenses shortly. When I was talking to
57:01Austin, I thought you had this like
57:03crazy system in place and how you kind
57:05of go to market and he said a lot of it
57:07is kind of feel and kind of what we
57:09talked about earlier.
57:10>> Who said Who said that?
57:11>> Austin said a lot of it was was feel and
57:12based on
57:13>> Yeah, based on your taste and your
57:15judgment, which you obviously talked
57:16about earlier in the in the
57:17conversation. So, I guess what is your
57:20goal when someone buys a product from
57:23you? If you had to kind of whittle it
57:24down to is it a feeling? Is it an
57:26emotion? Someone buys a product from
57:28you, they open the box.
57:29>> Well, it's meant to
57:30>> What What is the perfect situation for
57:31you?
57:32>> Well, it's meant to do a few different
57:33things. The first thing it's meant to do
57:35is be special.
57:37Meaning like everything that we do I
57:41want to do in a limited
57:43in a limited number so that when that
57:46person that buys the product either goes
57:48to work or goes to school
57:50the person next to them
57:52most likely is not wearing that same
57:54product. Right?
57:56So, that's one thing is scarcity will
57:58always be a form of luxury.
58:01And I think that a lot of these luxury
58:03brands
58:04>> Regardless of MSRP, too. Scarcity is
58:06luxury.
58:06>> Nothing Nothing to do with price.
58:08>> Yeah.
58:09>> Part of luxury
58:11is knowing that you're one of a few
58:13people that have a product. That's part
58:15of luxury. Scarcity has always been
58:16that. I mean, look at watches and cars.
58:18And I That's I'm not I'm not That This
58:20is not new. What I'm saying isn't new.
58:23But, I think that a lot of these luxury
58:24brands have gotten carried away and
58:26opened too many spaces in too many
58:28cities where they've lost the scarcity
58:31model where a lot of the people that
58:33were coming to some of these fashion
58:34house stores
58:36were feeling They felt really special
58:38walking in because it wasn't everywhere.
58:40So, I think a portion of why people were
58:42buying into those products and feeling
58:44special was the scarcity model within
58:46these luxury brands. So
58:49I think there's a new form of luxury now
58:53where it's not based on the on the price
58:55point. It's based on the emotion.
58:57You know, so and that emotion isn't one
58:59emotion. It's multiple.
59:01So, first is the purpose of walking into
59:04the space. Then, it's the product that
59:06you're gravitating towards.
59:08Then, it's buying the product and what
59:10you feel afterwards. Right?
59:13If you can get
59:15great use out of the product. You know
59:17what You know what a lot of people tell
59:18me a lot of the fans of the brands are
59:19like, "When I wear a Kith product
59:22so many people ask me about the
59:23product." And these are the products A
59:25lot of these products are the ones that
59:26are
59:28not branded or have small branding where
59:31they're being asked about the product
59:33for the look and feel of the product,
59:34not
59:35>> That's the That's the That's the warmest
59:36compliment for you.
59:37>> Yeah. And And I And I And I love that.
59:38And And by the way, it happens and I'm
59:40I'm now in the stage of my life where
59:42I'm not wearing a lot of logo-driven
59:44product. So, you know, the And Kin
59:47portion of the line is where I am
59:48currently in my life, where the product
59:50And Kin is not branded. It's all
59:52unbranded. So,
59:55my point in saying that is you need to
59:57feel
59:58like
1:00:00the product is different in in more ways
1:00:02than one.
1:00:04You don't have anything in your closet
1:00:05that looks and feels like it.
1:00:07It's worth to you more than the money
1:00:09that you spent. So, that was the idea
1:00:11that I mentioned before is like you want
1:00:13to make product
1:00:15that goes above and beyond for value.
1:00:17Value is a word that's been destroyed by
1:00:19down-market retailers.
1:00:21But value is so important, right? It's
1:00:23like
1:00:24getting more than what you pay for
1:00:28is
1:00:30like I feel like
1:00:31a lost mindset. When really it's like
1:00:34you'll figure it out. Some people figure
1:00:36it out later. Like you got like 30 wears
1:00:39out of a piece.
1:00:40And then you're like, "Oh, shit."
1:00:41>> and you're like, "Wow, this cost me like
1:00:42a dollar per wear."
1:00:43>> Oh, [ __ ] It's like, you know, that that
1:00:45was actually like that was more than
1:00:47worth what I paid for it. And you'll
1:00:49figure it out later, right? But I'm
1:00:51trying to give people that mindset
1:00:53before they purchase the product. I want
1:00:55people to think about that before they
1:00:57purchase something. You know, and not
1:00:58only my product. I want to get people in
1:01:00that mindset for anything they buy.
1:01:03Getting more than what you pay for is
1:01:04huge. Like even for me
1:01:07as a consumer of product today,
1:01:10that's what I look for, no matter what
1:01:12I'm buying.
1:01:13I want to know
1:01:15that I'm going to get more than what I
1:01:17pay for the product. Like I'm I'm going
1:01:18to get more than the money that I pay
1:01:20pay it.
1:01:20>> You're going to feel that and probably
1:01:21know in the back of your head what the
1:01:23cogs are and you're going to be like did
1:01:24these [ __ ] jack me up?
1:01:25>> Yeah. Like 200% mark up on this [ __ ]
1:01:27>> But you know what?
1:01:29It You know, it it depends on your value
1:01:33to that product. For example, like the
1:01:35products that I'm buying on eBay right
1:01:36now from the early 2000s.
1:01:37>> Oh, those are That's different.
1:01:39>> Oh my Oh my god.
1:01:40It's like, you know, I I can't think
1:01:42about what it cost to make that product.
1:01:44So, for some people
1:01:45>> That's the scarcity.
1:01:46>> Exactly. Exactly. So, for some people it
1:01:49depends on what it's worth to them. How
1:01:51much they're going to wear it, what
1:01:52they're going to wear it with, what it's
1:01:53going to make them feel.
1:01:55And I try to be connected to that. I try
1:01:57to be as connected as possible to that.
1:02:00To make people feel great about what
1:02:01they're purchasing. And by the way, if
1:02:03you don't want to purchase it, that's
1:02:04okay. It's like the the space is there.
1:02:07Ronnie's is there. Sadel's is there.
1:02:09Treats is there. You don't have to buy
1:02:11an item. You could spend $7, $9 on an
1:02:16ice cream
1:02:17or
1:02:1820 [snorts] bucks on a sandwich at
1:02:20Ronnie's and
1:02:21and feel like you're also part of the
1:02:23world. Like it
1:02:25I don't need people to feel like they
1:02:26need to buy anything.
1:02:28>> It's lethal that you have so many
1:02:29vehicles. And guys, this is called
1:02:31consumer surplus. It's an economic term.
1:02:33We talk about it a lot in the Peter Hall
1:02:34episode from David Protein. I completely
1:02:36agree. He's obviously looking at it on
1:02:38on like the protein bar side.
1:02:39>> I think something also which makes this,
1:02:41again, giving you kind of more leverage
1:02:44and ability to think how you think, you
1:02:46know, you talked about OPEX before is
1:02:47you don't spend on [ __ ] marketing.
1:02:49So, your margin profile can be
1:02:51significantly lower.
1:02:53>> We don't good.
1:02:53>> We don't spit We don't Hold on. Hold on.
1:02:55>> No, no, you don't spend on like meta.
1:02:56>> We don't spit on We don't spend on paid
1:02:58marketing.
1:02:58>> Let's just Let's just talk about that
1:02:59right now.
1:03:00>> Yeah. Why?
1:03:02Um because we don't have to.
1:03:04Because we don't have to. You know, like
1:03:06>> You could double up. That top line
1:03:07revenue could double up.
1:03:08>> You know, a little bit of meta, bro.
1:03:10>> You know what? Maybe. But I'm not
1:03:12interested in in doubling up. I'm
1:03:15interested in people organically
1:03:18connecting to the brand, creating their
1:03:20own emotion to the brand, and not having
1:03:22an emotion created for them.
1:03:24When you're pitched your algorithm
1:03:27with paid ads,
1:03:28and I'm not saying it's never going to
1:03:31happen. When there is a form that I feel
1:03:34is authentic
1:03:35and organic, then I will
1:03:38I'll you know, I'll I'll do some
1:03:40research on it and I'll I'll see if I
1:03:41feel like it's right for me, but at the
1:03:43time, right you know, at this time, at
1:03:45this current moment,
1:03:47I think that people are curious enough
1:03:49as to what we're doing
1:03:51that they want to know what we're doing.
1:03:53And the minute the curiosity goes away,
1:03:55we're going to be in we're going to be
1:03:57in a [ __ ] load of trouble, you know, and
1:03:58a lot of brands are lacking that
1:04:00curiosity from the consumer.
1:04:02>> You could argue that that's kind of the
1:04:03first step towards the grave. It's like
1:04:06when you go into wholesale, like when
1:04:08you're in Bloomingdale's or Nordstrom's
1:04:09and you go down to Zumiez or PacSun,
1:04:11you're [ __ ] When you're in Zumiez or
1:04:12PacSun, you go to Walmart and Target,
1:04:13you're [ __ ]
1:04:14>> Yeah. Then you go into Off Price, you're
1:04:15[ __ ]
1:04:16>> Well, you know what listen,
1:04:17>> You have so many levers to pull that you
1:04:19have not pulled any of these levers.
1:04:21>> Yeah, so you know,
1:04:23I I wouldn't
1:04:25I wouldn't label it as [ __ ] because
1:04:27some some
1:04:29>> You're closer to an ABG leveraged
1:04:31buyout, 100%. [snorts]
1:04:33>> No, no, listen, listen. I I hear what
1:04:35you're saying.
1:04:36>> Yeah.
1:04:37>> Every every brand serves a purpose, you
1:04:40know, every founder
1:04:42or buyer of a brand,
1:04:44even if it's not the original founder
1:04:45that's running the company,
1:04:48they all will have their own path as to
1:04:50what they're trying to achieve.
1:04:51Some are more business-oriented and have
1:04:54to hit a number, and some are doing it
1:04:56for the right reasons, which I consider
1:04:58to be passion, you know, around creation
1:05:00of product.
1:05:02I'm really passionate about what I do. I
1:05:04love what I do.
1:05:06So, my my purpose is different from
1:05:09it needing to be about dollars and
1:05:11cents. And this is what people
1:05:14This is what what people need to also
1:05:15understand listening to this. If I
1:05:17wanted to spend
1:05:20a fourth of what I spend on my doors on
1:05:22my stores, I can. And the product will
1:05:25continue to sell, I believe, at the same
1:05:26rate.
1:05:28We're spending
1:05:30more than some luxury houses on our on
1:05:32our spaces.
1:05:34You know, and
1:05:35that's between a thousand to like $1,300
1:05:38a foot
1:05:39on the space that we built. And this is
1:05:41not from the ground up. This is when
1:05:43you're given a vanilla box, we call it,
1:05:45right?
1:05:46That decision
1:05:47has
1:05:49puzzled my CFO,
1:05:51right? And continues to do that.
1:05:54But is so embedded in what I try to do,
1:05:58I'm trying to give people a space where
1:06:01they could come in and be inspired.
1:06:03And I'm trying to build a space around
1:06:05great product
1:06:07where it's complementary to the product
1:06:09I'm trying to build. I'm also trying to
1:06:11give myself room to grow into an
1:06:15aesthetic with product that I build.
1:06:18So,
1:06:19I'm trying for like the spaces to have
1:06:21no ceiling in terms of aesthetic and
1:06:23feel, so that the product can continue
1:06:25to evolve without feeling like it's out
1:06:27of place.
1:06:28>> I do feel like over the years it's
1:06:29gotten more minimalist in nature, kind
1:06:31of keeping it more open to Yeah, to
1:06:33adjust.
1:06:33>> It is, but it's always going to be
1:06:34beautiful. And that's the key, right?
1:06:37Like, the key for me is to build spaces
1:06:39where people will come in
1:06:41and
1:06:42it feels like you're walking into a
1:06:43special space. You know, it took You
1:06:46know what? It It took me a while It took
1:06:48me a while to get used to walking into
1:06:49my Soho space after I rebuilt it.
1:06:52You know, and you know, people
1:06:54I just posted something for the 15-year
1:06:57retrospect
1:06:58on photos throughout the years. This is
1:07:01like the latest post I put up with the
1:07:02carousel. And I see people's like
1:07:04reaction to that. They're so emotionally
1:07:06invested into the spaces throughout the
1:07:08years. It's incredible cuz they grew up
1:07:10with the spaces, right?
1:07:12>> Like I think about the wood. I think
1:07:13about the Air Force 1's hanging. I think
1:07:15about the white crystal. I think about
1:07:16all that.
1:07:16>> Yeah. Yeah. And and and that has
1:07:18evolved, you know, that's no longer part
1:07:19of our aesthetic. But it's but it's
1:07:21embedded in your mind because you
1:07:23associated your
1:07:25experience in the shop,
1:07:27you know,
1:07:28with the product that you purchased.
1:07:30It's like it goes hand in hand. And even
1:07:32>> I cannot say that about many brands to
1:07:34be completely frank with you.
1:07:35>> Yeah.
1:07:35>> Yeah.
1:07:36>> Yeah. And and I think that that's that's
1:07:37a that's a big part of it. But as we
1:07:38expand regionally,
1:07:40that core purpose stays intact
1:07:44of what the spaces need to achieve.
1:07:45>> tell your CFO. I mean, obviously, you
1:07:47guys are spending on your website, but
1:07:49your stores are basically like your
1:07:50website.
1:07:51>> Yeah.
1:07:51>> Like you're investing in your website,
1:07:52which there's a big budget for that. So,
1:07:54I understand what you're doing there.
1:07:56>> Yeah, you see, but you're trying to
1:07:58you're trying to create a formula for
1:08:00the reasoning
1:08:01>> formula like in nature.
1:08:02>> for for the reasoning behind some of
1:08:04these some of these decisions that I'm
1:08:05making where for me, it's it has nothing
1:08:08to do with the formula. You know, it's
1:08:09it has
1:08:11it has nothing to do with that. It has
1:08:12to do with what is the greatest space
1:08:14that we can build today.
1:08:16How far can we take this thing?
1:08:18People people often will try to
1:08:22put you in a box to say this is what you
1:08:25should be
1:08:26because that's what they've seen in the
1:08:27past. So, you do anything beyond the
1:08:30four walls, they try to box you in box
1:08:33you into. If you do anything beyond
1:08:35that, it's confusing to them because
1:08:37they don't understand the purpose
1:08:39until they experience it.
1:08:41So so it's it's you know, it's it's very
1:08:44interesting to understand what dictates
1:08:47the journey
1:08:48and the path.
1:08:50The journey needs to be dictated
1:08:53by purpose,
1:08:54by being purposeful and thoughtful.
1:08:57You know, and that is that is ultimately
1:09:00how I want to think about the future.
1:09:02is every move and decision that I make
1:09:04needs to like you said before I'm in the
1:09:0615-year mindset today because we have a
1:09:09book coming out in September but I
1:09:10really am on the 18 to 20 year mindset
1:09:12like I need to think about what we grow
1:09:14into.
1:09:15>> You know you're thinking about that now
1:09:16and especially the day after this comes
1:09:18out it's on to
1:09:18>> and it's not a it's not a formula it is
1:09:20a feeling and Austin
1:09:22you know he's been around me for so many
1:09:24years he understands when it's time to
1:09:27pivot and change direction it's because
1:09:30the brand is forcing us to do so not
1:09:32because we're thinking like I'm thinking
1:09:35I'm not thinking for myself I'm thinking
1:09:36for the brand at this point the brand
1:09:37has a brain because it's been consistent
1:09:39for 15 years I am
1:09:41and when you when you are a creative
1:09:43director
1:09:44it's one thing but when you've also when
1:09:47you're the founder / creative director I
1:09:49am now thinking for the brand I need to
1:09:51do the brand justice with the decisions
1:09:53that I make you know so it's not it's
1:09:55not formulaic it's a building blocks
1:09:57it's like when when I try to push
1:10:00everything forward you know we need to
1:10:01be
1:10:03militant in decision-making to make sure
1:10:06that the brand is we're maximizing the
1:10:08potential but by doing it tastefully.
1:10:11>> And is doing that those Monday programs
1:10:14those weekly drops is that kind of force
1:10:15you to always have that exercise in
1:10:18thinking through how do we avoid that
1:10:20complacency?
1:10:21>> Monday the Monday program
1:10:23when you
1:10:25I don't know how many years it's been
1:10:26now it's it has to have been now like
1:10:30at least 8 years of releasing product
1:10:34>> insane
1:10:35>> you know 52 times a year
1:10:37and the purpose of a Monday program
1:10:39sometimes is the appetizer which I like
1:10:42like what it's and it's continuously the
1:10:44purpose of that has continuously changed
1:10:46because that's what Monday program was
1:10:47built for it was a malleable idea of
1:10:50like
1:10:51hey like we we have this Yankee
1:10:53collection dropping
1:10:55the end of the week
1:10:57on the Monday,
1:10:58let's give them the accessory portion or
1:11:00the lifestyle portion of that, right?
1:11:03And get them ready for And And it's it
1:11:06stands for then part of the rollout, but
1:11:08also part of, you know, the release
1:11:10strategy.
1:11:10>> That's the one layer of predictability
1:11:12is that is is at least that your
1:11:13audience can expect that every Monday
1:11:15they can wake up in something new and
1:11:17fresh from Kith Kith com.
1:11:18>> Yeah, and I think that that's important.
1:11:19And sometimes it could be two hats, and
1:11:21sometimes it could be one T-shirt, and
1:11:22sometimes it could be an entire
1:11:23collection of product.
1:11:25So,
1:11:26we look at the calendar and study the
1:11:28calendar very carefully to think about
1:11:30bandwidth and think about the journey
1:11:32that people are taking throughout the
1:11:33year and following us with the amount of
1:11:35content that we're throwing at them.
1:11:37But ultimately, like
1:11:39I want to I want to do everything I can,
1:11:43not everything I should. So, it's like
1:11:45I I I have to I have to then position
1:11:48myself
1:11:49and the brand to be able to do that
1:11:52in a way where people can digest it in
1:11:54the best way possible. So, it's it's a
1:11:57it's a Rubik's Cube, you know, and the
1:11:58the calendar is a really a Rubik's Cube
1:12:01because
1:12:02product is always shipped late from
1:12:03brands, things have to move around. I
1:12:05have to sometimes sell product before I
1:12:09receive it in my warehouse knowing that
1:12:10I'm getting it next week. I'll sell it
1:12:12and then it'll take 14 days to ship it
1:12:14out or it get to a consumer.
1:12:16And And we have to sometimes stay on
1:12:18calendar because one thing can affect
1:12:20It's a domino effect, you know, it could
1:12:21affect the rest of the year if I change
1:12:22things around. So, we try to be
1:12:24methodical like
1:12:26on a week-to-week basis of what's going
1:12:28to happen for a full year. Like I'm on
1:12:30next year's calendar and next year's
1:12:32planned out by the week,
1:12:34right? So,
1:12:36it then puts the content team in place
1:12:39to be making great decisions to be
1:12:41creative and have enough time to do what
1:12:43they need to do.
1:12:44And then it has like the editing team on
1:12:47a schedule and on a calendar to be able
1:12:49to put the stuff up on the site. It has
1:12:51my experiential team in place to be able
1:12:54to throw these amazing events. Like we
1:12:56have we have an event coming up
1:12:59very soon. Like by the time this comes
1:13:01out, it'll be like within the next
1:13:042 weeks.
1:13:05>> Drop it. Drop it.
1:13:05>> I can't.
1:13:07I can't, but
1:13:09people aren't ready.
1:13:10And
1:13:12people think
1:13:14I'm one thing or 10 things,
1:13:17but this will add to whatever they
1:13:18think. Like And and and that's what I
1:13:20mean by like having so many different
1:13:25touch points for be able to to be able
1:13:27to bring something to fruition.
1:13:29It's like
1:13:30maybe 80 people touch it internally.
1:13:33>> A lot of vessels you have. I mean, it's
1:13:36cars, hospitality, kids clothes,
1:13:38high-end.
1:13:39>> Yeah, we I mean we haven't talked about
1:13:40Ivy, which is great.
1:13:41>> The way Ronnie has built Kith is the
1:13:43blueprint for how you build an
1:13:45influential brand today. We put together
1:13:47a free PDF on Ronnie's playbook. Why he
1:13:50hates paid marketing, why storytelling
1:13:52is king, and the reason he spends more
1:13:54on his stores than most luxury brands do
1:13:55today.
1:13:57Link down below in the description.
1:13:58Enjoy the rest of the episode.
1:13:59>> I want to double click on on the collabs
1:14:01just because I think among other things,
1:14:03like you're very well known. People have
1:14:05always tried to kind of duplicate your
1:14:06playbook there. Why don't you just put
1:14:08us on some game? You could pick any
1:14:09collab and just kind of walk us through
1:14:12What is that process? I know we talked
1:14:13about your individual taste, yeah, but
1:14:16is it also in conjunction? Maybe it's,
1:14:18you know, Hasbro has its 50th
1:14:20anniversary coming. Like what is that
1:14:21holistic view on how Ronnie's brain
1:14:23thinks?
1:14:24>> I I I'll I'll walk you through one
1:14:26example, which is BMW that just happened
1:14:28in Pebble Beach.
1:14:29So, when we first started with BMW, the
1:14:31idea was when when I sat down with Toby,
1:14:35who flew in from Germany from BMW, and
1:14:37asked me, "Why do you love the brand?"
1:14:39And I'm like,
1:14:40it's it was a poster on my wall. You
1:14:42know, like my grandfather
1:14:44had an M3,
1:14:46an E30, and I fell in love with it.
1:14:48And it then became
1:14:50this aspirational item that I had to
1:14:53have, you know, the car.
1:14:55And
1:14:57I had And then you know, funny enough
1:14:58later in life, I was able to get a 330,
1:15:02you know, this is when I worked for
1:15:03David.
1:15:04The later years working for David, I was
1:15:07able to lease a 330, but build it, you
1:15:09know, it was a white with a red
1:15:09interior.
1:15:11And I loved the car, obviously, but
1:15:13the idea was, "Hey, like I love the E30
1:15:17M3.
1:15:18Can we do something with the E30 M3?"
1:15:20He's like, "Well, you know, we have an
1:15:22M4 coming soon.
1:15:25And in the lineage of what the M3 meant,
1:15:27it obviously is the future, you know,
1:15:29body style of the M3, cuz the M3, the
1:15:33two-door, became the M4, and then the M3
1:15:35became the four-door.
1:15:36So,
1:15:38the idea was this past and present
1:15:40story.
1:15:41And I I give you that example because I
1:15:43always try to think in those terms of
1:15:46the educational part of the
1:15:48of of the project, which is
1:15:51teaching people why the E30 M3 was so
1:15:55important.
1:15:56We know it's a cultural icon.
1:15:58>> But to you as well, too. The personal
1:15:59story, obviously, I think brings it to
1:16:01whole other level.
1:16:02>> And And that's that's a portion of it,
1:16:04but that's a smaller portion of it. The
1:16:06The The cultural relevance of the E30
1:16:08M3, where did it come from? Well, the
1:16:10E30 M3,
1:16:11you know, won a bunch of races and was
1:16:14such an important
1:16:16such an important car in the portfolio,
1:16:18like what it meant to put a race car on
1:16:21the street and make it a street car,
1:16:23right? And And then what it did for the
1:16:26brand and what it did for M.
1:16:28So, when I went to Germany and I got to
1:16:29see, you know, the history of BMW and
1:16:33and the lineage of the specific car, the
1:16:363 Series,
1:16:38I knew that that story had to be told.
1:16:41So, Johnny Cecotto, which was race car
1:16:43driver that used to drive the E30 M3 and
1:16:45won a bunch of trophies with it,
1:16:47I put him on the racetrack with his son,
1:16:49and I had them both drive the E30 M3 and
1:16:52the M4 on the same track.
1:16:55And it was to tell this like past and
1:16:56present story.
1:16:57So,
1:16:59the the apparel and the lifestyle
1:17:02product that we then sell
1:17:04is an extension
1:17:06of people who either can't afford to buy
1:17:09the car or want to buy the car plus
1:17:10that, but it's letting people into
1:17:14the culture of what BMW stands for.
1:17:18And
1:17:19I'm heavily invested into the brand
1:17:21because I learned so much about it. If
1:17:23anyone was in my shoes in Germany and
1:17:25got to see what I see, they'd be the
1:17:27biggest fans of the brand, too.
1:17:29Right? So, it's my responsibility,
1:17:33I feel like it's my responsibility doing
1:17:35what I do to transfer over the knowledge
1:17:37and the feeling that I have when I do
1:17:39certain things.
1:17:40So,
1:17:42my goal is to be able to transfer that.
1:17:45Why Why do I care so much about that? I
1:17:48don't [ __ ] know. Like, I don't know
1:17:50why I want to transfer that emotion, but
1:17:53I've always since a kid
1:17:55wanted to put You know, like, when
1:17:56you're when when when we were younger
1:17:58and we'd hear like we'd buy a mixtape,
1:18:01we'd hear a song, like we'd buy a clue
1:18:03tape, and I'd hear like a Foxy Brown
1:18:06freestyle that I loved over a Jamaican
1:18:09beat, and
1:18:10for some reason, I had to like
1:18:13make everyone listen to that song. Like,
1:18:16"Yo, you got to hear this [ __ ] This
1:18:17shit's crazy." And like,
1:18:18why do we want to put people on to those
1:18:20things? Well,
1:18:22whether it's a track on a mixtape or now
1:18:25on a larger stage where I could like
1:18:27teach people about the history of a BMW
1:18:30automobile, it's like it to me it's the
1:18:32same kind of transfer
1:18:35of emotion.
1:18:36So,
1:18:38I want to I want as many people as
1:18:40possible to to explore those feelings
1:18:43and to know what I know.
1:18:45So, that that's that that that now is a
1:18:48big part of the purpose of what I do.
1:18:49I'm also 44 and like
1:18:51at this point or at this stage of my
1:18:53career, like this is a legacy mode of
1:18:55like what I could do
1:18:57to transfer emotion.
1:18:59You know, and I do think that Kith space
1:19:01is and for people that are spending
1:19:03their weekends or time coming to the
1:19:04Kith store, like I do think that I'm
1:19:07helping people, making people happy. If
1:19:11you see people eating Kith Treats, every
1:19:12single person will smile after a bite.
1:19:14And that was the that was the goal with
1:19:15Kith Treats, right? Standing outside of
1:19:17Brooklyn with the first windows like the
1:19:19first window. I was just like the store
1:19:21It was the for the opening of the
1:19:22Brooklyn store, but I was outside just
1:19:24curious about what people's reaction
1:19:26would be to tasting this cereal-infused
1:19:29ice cream, which was like the the
1:19:31invention [snorts] of that. That didn't
1:19:33exist before I did what I did. So, like
1:19:35watching people's reaction and seeing
1:19:37them smile, it made my It did I didn't
1:19:39care what happened inside the space I
1:19:41spent so much time building. That was
1:19:42like such an important moment for me.
1:19:44That is the KPI is the feeling. That's
1:19:46right.
1:19:46>> Yeah.
1:19:47>> Wow.
1:19:48>> It's the feeling.
1:19:48>> That's a bar. Save that one.
1:19:50>> I mean, that's what it is.
1:19:51>> That's great.
1:19:52>> That's That's exactly what it is.
1:19:54>> So, you've done so many of these
1:19:56collabs. And again, kind of going back
1:19:58to what you said earlier is we just see
1:20:00the end product. Yeah. No one knows. I
1:20:02mean, I've done tons of licensing deals
1:20:04as well, too. I'd love for you to just
1:20:06share
1:20:08the red flags, the green flags. What do
1:20:10you look for? Again, putting aside the
1:20:13this is the taste
1:20:14of Ronnie Fieg, but then everything
1:20:16else.
1:20:17>> Yeah, I mean, there's so
1:20:19I got And you'll see the final edit of
1:20:21this. Don't worry about it. You'll see
1:20:21the final edit of this. We No, no, no.
1:20:23No, that's Leave that anything. That's
1:20:24okay. Listen, um I don't want you to cut
1:20:26anything out. You know, sometimes I have
1:20:28this like
1:20:29this feeling in the middle of meetings
1:20:31where I'll stop and I'll be like, "Fuck,
1:20:33I wish everyone was here for this shit."
1:20:35You know, like I'll be in a meeting with
1:20:37a brand
1:20:39that first said no to something.
1:20:42And then,
1:20:43you know, I'll sit down and I'll give
1:20:45you a good example of this. It was like
1:20:47>> Are they still saying no, anybody?
1:20:49>> I mean, when when when I when I
1:20:51when I say that, I don't mean they're
1:20:53saying no to working together.
1:20:56>> No to a concept within the company.
1:20:58>> to an idea that makes them
1:21:00uncomfortable.
1:21:01>> Yeah.
1:21:02>> That happens a lot.
1:21:03>> Should tell me the Kith Treats ice cream
1:21:04was probably a bad idea to outsiders.
1:21:07>> Right. And I'll tell you how the Kith
1:21:08Treats how Kith Treats came about after
1:21:10this. It's pretty funny. But, like how
1:21:13that came to be because originally it
1:21:15was supposed to be a white chocolate
1:21:16bread window.
1:21:18And I'll I'll give you the I'll give you
1:21:19the story around that. So,
1:21:22the reason why I say that is because
1:21:25it's important for people to know that
1:21:28some of the product and concepts behind
1:21:31product took three, four rounds of like
1:21:35having to convince a brand to allow me
1:21:38to do certain things, you know?
1:21:40Like putting our logo in the BMW
1:21:43roundel.
1:21:45That was an automatic no, and then no,
1:21:47no, no.
1:21:49>> Because they've never done that before.
1:21:50>> Three more times after that. Yeah, no no
1:21:52and and that's you know, IP integration
1:21:54is a big part of the conversation for
1:21:55me. It's like, how do we do something
1:21:57that's going to differentiate what you
1:21:58are what you've already done? How don't
1:22:00how are we going to because a big part
1:22:02of the Kith DNA is to disrupt. It's just
1:22:04become a big part of what we do,
1:22:07you know? So,
1:22:08people have to see
1:22:11creativity, but also it needs to move
1:22:13the needle, right? And I think that when
1:22:16we met with Coca-Cola and we wanted to
1:22:18have Kith in the Coke font on a glass
1:22:21contour bottle,
1:22:23that was a [ __ ] no,
1:22:25right? [snorts]
1:22:26>> I've dealt with them. They're tough.
1:22:27>> In in so in so many words. It was a no.
1:22:29Like, of course not. You can't do that.
1:22:31But then, through conversation
1:22:34and through understanding the purpose of
1:22:36what I'm trying to do,
1:22:37brands will align because they
1:22:41understand the mutual benefit of
1:22:44a brand like ours and myself uplifting
1:22:47the DNA of the brand itself. Like, not
1:22:49just
1:22:51trying to create something new, it also
1:22:53needs to speak to why
1:22:56you know, Coca-Cola is such a great
1:22:57brand. It's a great American brand. So,
1:23:00I have this like Coca-Cola book that I
1:23:02bought in Japan.
1:23:03And going back to Japan, they're so good
1:23:06at
1:23:07up-specking
1:23:09what you would think is a dollar can of
1:23:12Coke into a lifestyle. Like, the way
1:23:15that Japanese the Japanese
1:23:19consumer looks at American brands in
1:23:21Japan is very different from here. They
1:23:23they they're able to build products
1:23:26around storytelling in ways that
1:23:28Americans couldn't even do it for
1:23:29themselves. So,
1:23:32I I saw that.
1:23:34Like, if you go to Japan,
1:23:37if you went to Japan 15 years ago and
1:23:38you bought a a Champion sweatshirt,
1:23:41it's like the Japanese Champion
1:23:43sweatshirts were like so much better and
1:23:47better made, better fit, just like
1:23:49those some of those retailers were
1:23:50taking
1:23:52product and spinning it and recreating
1:23:56it in a way that really made you respect
1:23:58the brand so much more. That's what I
1:24:00wanted to do for Coke. So,
1:24:02the bottle was one conversation, but
1:24:04what I was going to do within the
1:24:05context of the collection is like, I
1:24:08want to make product for Coca-Cola that
1:24:09people have never seen, people have
1:24:11never felt.
1:24:11>> Are you communicating to them how you're
1:24:13communicating to me right now?
1:24:14>> Yeah, of course.
1:24:14>> Yeah, you're saying these exact things.
1:24:16Like, this
1:24:16>> of course. I mean, I
1:24:19I'm in I'm in every conversation
1:24:22that
1:24:23then builds the blueprint for what we do
1:24:25in the future. And that's why it's such
1:24:27long-standing relationships that we have
1:24:29is because
1:24:30they need to hear the intent from me.
1:24:33Cuz I'm creatively directing where we
1:24:35go. It's like they need to understand
1:24:36what my end goal is in working together.
1:24:39So, in collaborations like being
1:24:41purposeful
1:24:43and
1:24:44trying to achieve something that hasn't
1:24:47been achieved in the past will be again
1:24:50a building block for that brand. So, if
1:24:52I can There was a time
1:24:55and I truly believe this. And right now
1:24:56it'll be hard for people to understand
1:24:59what I'm saying because
1:25:01we're not in a time today
1:25:03when
1:25:04we released the kind of product we did
1:25:06for a brand like Coca-Cola. But, there
1:25:08was a time
1:25:09where if you asked my consumer
1:25:13what is the first thing you think about
1:25:14when I say Coca-Cola?
1:25:16They may not say
1:25:18a can or a bottle
1:25:20in my at my deli or at a restaurant.
1:25:22They may say a different product. Can
1:25:25you imagine that? Can you imagine I ask
1:25:27you what's the first thing you think
1:25:27about when you think about Coca-Cola and
1:25:29you say
1:25:30>> the collaborative product that you
1:25:31>> And you say the rugby that I bought.
1:25:34What that does for a brand is is
1:25:37priceless.
1:25:38Because then you expand the purpose of
1:25:40what you stand for. It's like
1:25:42and Coca-Cola is not just a beverage to
1:25:44me.
1:25:45There's so much equity in that IP
1:25:49where it could stand for so much more.
1:25:51The color, the feel. If you get this
1:25:53book of the history of Coca-Cola and you
1:25:54see like in the '70s what Coca-Cola
1:25:56meant to the US like if you have like an
1:25:58ice cold Coke with a [ __ ] burger or a
1:26:01slice of pizza, you know what that does.
1:26:03>> hit that. We just hit that. I felt good.
1:26:05>> I haven't done it in like a year.
1:26:06>> You know you know what that does. So,
1:26:08like
1:26:09you know, so transferring that over to
1:26:11what that would mean on product outside
1:26:13of a beverage
1:26:15is
1:26:16to me the the most fun I can have is
1:26:19like then transferring it over to
1:26:21probably BMW's the same thing. If I ask
1:26:24you what's the first thing you think
1:26:24about with BMW? Like if you just bought
1:26:26that orange leather jacket, like
1:26:29and you don't own a BMW car, that may be
1:26:32the first thing you think about.
1:26:34>> You know, like this goes back to all
1:26:35those kind of ways to get them into the
1:26:37world. It's a net new
1:26:38>> Yeah, but getting getting someone into
1:26:40the Coca-Cola world isn't I don't need
1:26:42to do that. They already
1:26:43>> them back into it, to be completely
1:26:44frank.
1:26:45>> Maybe, but that's not that's not even
1:26:47the purpose. The purpose is to expand
1:26:49how they feel about it. Right? That was
1:26:51the purpose in the conversation that I
1:26:52had. It's like, "Hey, like we can I
1:26:54really think of Coca-Cola as a lifestyle
1:26:56brand. I don't think about it as a
1:26:58beverage." And that was the spark.
1:27:01That was like, "Hey, the the bottle is
1:27:03just part of the overall story. It's the
1:27:06context. It has to be the base of the
1:27:08story, cuz that's why people have fallen
1:27:10in love with the brand,
1:27:11but I'm then going to
1:27:13give you a world around it."
1:27:15And that's an example, I know you asked
1:27:17me about collaboration. I just wanted to
1:27:19give you one example around how we work
1:27:22and what we think about when we work
1:27:24with a partner. It's like I'm trying to
1:27:26tell
1:27:27the history of why I feel connected to
1:27:29the brand.
1:27:30That is the purpose of why we do what we
1:27:32do.
1:27:33>> What about these like trips that you're
1:27:35doing with a select group of people that
1:27:36you like known from childhood? Is that a
1:27:38big part of this? Because for me, that
1:27:40has always just
1:27:42and it's subtle. It just further cements
1:27:45the story that you're talking about. And
1:27:46it's just a a net new vehicle that you
1:27:48see the story through that lens. I think
1:27:50that has been one of the most powerful
1:27:51things that you've done. Is that Is that
1:27:53in those conversations? Do they want
1:27:54that? Do you ask for that?
1:27:56>> Two things about that. Number one,
1:27:59I am and if you ask my friends, like any
1:28:02of my friends, they'll tell you that I'm
1:28:04like the glue
1:28:07or
1:28:08not even the glue, but I'm the
1:28:09connector. So, like all of my friends
1:28:11know each other through me,
1:28:12and then the relationships that have
1:28:14been built
1:28:15in silos, like
1:28:18have been because they met on some of
1:28:21these trips or because I've put them
1:28:23together, and I've
1:28:25been
1:28:26fortunate enough to be part of so many
1:28:28friendships,
1:28:30but more fortunate enough to create
1:28:33other friendships.
1:28:34And I And I love being that person that
1:28:38is able to connect like-minded
1:28:40individuals that can become even better
1:28:42friends than I am with that individual.
1:28:45So,
1:28:46Kith has been a platform for me
1:28:49where
1:28:51I can bring all my friends together
1:28:54and enjoy my life and friendships
1:28:57because I don't get to do that outside
1:28:59of work cuz I don't have time.
1:29:00So, the brand has been a platform where
1:29:02I could do that, and I And by chance,
1:29:06and it's
1:29:06>> That is the meet-up with the friends.
1:29:07It's like everyone's so busy, that is
1:29:09the meet-up.
1:29:09>> That's exactly right. And all of us are
1:29:11busy. And ironically,
1:29:15by coincidence,
1:29:17all of us have become successful in our
1:29:20own right like
1:29:21with doing what we do, you know? So,
1:29:23like if you go back in the history of
1:29:24some of our first trips, like the amount
1:29:27of growth that all of us have had
1:29:29>> individually and collectively.
1:29:30>> And if I go down the list one individual
1:29:33after the other, this is from day one.
1:29:36There haven't been new names on that
1:29:37list for a long time, you know? So,
1:29:40they become influential. So, seeing like
1:29:42for Imagine like what we do
1:29:45when we take over
1:29:47a mountain in Hokkaido
1:29:50and
1:29:51we're 25
1:29:54individuals, and all of us are wearing
1:29:57the same ski kit,
1:29:59and we take over the village. Like we're
1:30:01like walking around like skiing down the
1:30:03mountain all wearing the same kit. The
1:30:06influence that that has on people that
1:30:08are there is is it's insane. You know,
1:30:10and then the organic content, nobody is
1:30:13told that they have to post anything.
1:30:15There's no hashtag.
1:30:17That shit's corny.
1:30:18There's no There's none of that, you
1:30:19know, like
1:30:21it's organic social that comes out of
1:30:23that. Because people love People First
1:30:25of all, if I take you to the spaces,
1:30:27you're going to love it. If I take you
1:30:29to Amangiri for and we take over the
1:30:31whole hotel and I put you in the product
1:30:33and we're hiking, you know,
1:30:36you're going to post that because that's
1:30:38what human behavior is now. You love
1:30:39doing what you're doing and you think
1:30:41some shit's cool, you're going to post
1:30:42it because that's what life is today.
1:30:45So, like that came organically. No one I
1:30:48haven't asked anybody to post anything
1:30:49ever.
1:30:50Like literally ever.
1:30:53>> That backed into a good situation. That
1:30:55makes a lot of sense. It's just uh, you
1:30:56know, one time a quarter, two times a
1:30:58year, you could just put a date on the
1:30:59calendar and everyone everyone could
1:31:01link
1:31:01>> And that's exactly what we're doing. And
1:31:02this one thing I'm speaking about that's
1:31:03happening very soon will be
1:31:07the [ __ ] pinnacle of that. We had to
1:31:09show up for the 15 year, so that's going
1:31:11to be
1:31:13the biggest
1:31:15the biggest I think it's going to be the
1:31:16biggest moment.
1:31:18It's definitely the biggest moment in my
1:31:19career.
1:31:21Yeah. So, I think it's going to be
1:31:24a big moment in fashion.
1:31:26You know, and I'm I'm really I'm really
1:31:28hyped about that because
1:31:30it takes it took so much to be able to
1:31:32get to the point where we can
1:31:34impact the culture in that way. So, I'm
1:31:37just I'm I'm excited for the position
1:31:39that we're in also to be able to do
1:31:41things the way that we're doing them is
1:31:43it's not taken for granted like
1:31:45I'm very appreciative of the fact that
1:31:47I'm able to do that, you know, and and
1:31:49the team that I have and everybody
1:31:51around me that's like supporting me and
1:31:53able to bring it to fruition is key.
1:31:56>> When can we look out for that?
1:31:58>> It's it's the first week
1:32:02first and second week of October.
1:32:04>> A collaboration you're proudest of.
1:32:07>> Giorgio Armani.
1:32:09>> Why?
1:32:10>> Because Giorgio was always the
1:32:14pinnacle for me.
1:32:16Just the top of the pyramid for
1:32:19what he was able to build, the
1:32:21lifestyle, and what he stood for,
1:32:23dressing some of the most important
1:32:25characters in some of the most amazing
1:32:26films,
1:32:28being able to build a book for him when
1:32:30I met with him,
1:32:32and having that conversation with him,
1:32:34and then working on a few other projects
1:32:36with him
1:32:37before he passed.
1:32:39To me, that's the ultimate That was, I
1:32:41think
1:32:43I think it's the most impactful and most
1:32:45important project of my career.
1:32:48>> I would say from the outside looking in,
1:32:49too, it probably was the biggest jump in
1:32:51maturation from like an aesthetic
1:32:53perspective, as well, too, as far as the
1:32:55the garment and product. Like, I never
1:32:57looked at you under that lens.
1:32:58>> Yeah.
1:32:58>> That was for me that was like when I
1:33:00crossed the chasm to like, I would buy
1:33:02stuff from him in that in that vehicle.
1:33:04>> Yeah, and and you're not you know,
1:33:06you're you're not the first person to
1:33:07say that, and I know that, too. I know
1:33:09that that was
1:33:11the beginning of something new
1:33:12>> Yeah.
1:33:13>> for, again,
1:33:14>> I think Bergdorf was another one, too,
1:33:15when you went in there. I was like,
1:33:16okay, he's going in he's going into a
1:33:18whole other universe right now.
1:33:19>> Yeah, and and that's that's the thing is
1:33:20like
1:33:23I want to be able to work on the most
1:33:27aspirational [ __ ] to me, personally.
1:33:30You know, and live through that
1:33:33with the brand.
1:33:35Right? And and I think
1:33:37I think, again, like, it's going to
1:33:38confuse a certain people, but that's
1:33:41what it's meant to do.
1:33:43But it's going to really affect
1:33:45like a different group of people
1:33:48that get into that crepe suit, the
1:33:51artist suit that I wear so often. I wear
1:33:54it like I wear any kit, like
1:33:57such a comfortable suit, a
1:33:59double-breasted shawl, like it's
1:34:02perfect.
1:34:03>> I've never gone I've never I've never
1:34:04gone that route. I might need to I might
1:34:05need to have that.
1:34:06>> Yeah, I mean listen, it's and and it
1:34:08made me and again, like it's the same
1:34:10thing. Like when there was mutual
1:34:12interest and by the way, there was
1:34:13mutual interest and a conversation that
1:34:15started three or four years before we
1:34:17put out that product and it took that
1:34:19long for me to then meet with, you know,
1:34:21Mr. A and
1:34:24it took a ton of education
1:34:27for me to think about what I was going
1:34:29to do,
1:34:30you know, and create the archetype of
1:34:31every guy that I thought Giorgio
1:34:33affected in his in in in in that brand's
1:34:36and his lifespan, like
1:34:39for people that got into suits and the
1:34:40type of guy that got into suits
1:34:43throughout the years. I wanted to
1:34:44celebrate
1:34:46that I wanted to celebrate that for him
1:34:49and with him, right? So, in that
1:34:52conversation that I had with him, like
1:34:54that was very interesting and and and
1:34:56and by the way, like
1:34:58not just because there's interest in
1:35:00working together, it doesn't mean that
1:35:01we're going to sit down and talk and
1:35:02he's going to like the idea or agree
1:35:04with the idea and at first
1:35:07he didn't really agree and love it until
1:35:11I went through the book and explained
1:35:13the purpose that it served and what I
1:35:15was trying to do by paying respects,
1:35:18you know?
1:35:19Like
1:35:21paying respect to Giorgio
1:35:24through his
1:35:27history and his and you know, cuz he
1:35:29turned 90 and
1:35:31the brand, I think, turned
1:35:34I don't remember the year, you're going
1:35:35to have to check that, but
1:35:36I think it was 50.
1:35:38And and I think I I think that
1:35:41be like people seeing it, I think, for
1:35:43the first time, like seeing the history
1:35:46and like understanding what it was
1:35:47through my lens allowed people to then
1:35:50dive deeper.
1:35:52And I think that that's the purpose that
1:35:54it served is
1:35:55>> think there was an awareness in like my
1:35:56cohort in my pocket. Like I didn't know
1:35:58much about George. I I obviously know
1:36:00the logo.
1:36:00>> Yeah, of course.
1:36:01>> Um but I didn't know much past that. I
1:36:03was thinking cologne. Like I I I like
1:36:05Yeah.
1:36:05>> Right. Right. And and and the finest I
1:36:07believe Giorgio Armani has the finest
1:36:08garments in the world, literally. And I
1:36:11And And that's that's the purpose of why
1:36:13I wanted to work together.
1:36:14>> Love that. Guys, we're going to finish
1:36:16up with some of those last
1:36:16collaborations. I just want to round it
1:36:18out with some of this outside stuff
1:36:19outside of the court and business.
1:36:21Outside of marrying your wife and having
1:36:22your kid,
1:36:23was there a [ __ ] better moment
1:36:25>> girls.
1:36:26>> Was there a better moment than the next
1:36:28winning the 2026 championship?
1:36:32>> I wouldn't say that one is better than
1:36:34the other.
1:36:35>> [laughter]
1:36:36[gasps]
1:36:37>> Honestly,
1:36:39everything that will happen after that
1:36:43moment is just a cherry on top.
1:36:46Everything that will happen So you're
1:36:47good for life with the one chip.
1:36:49I'm good for life with the one chip.
1:36:51>> [laughter]
1:36:52>> I'm good for life with the one chip.
1:36:54>> is back.
1:36:55So you're the creative director. Let's
1:36:57talk about that. What does that role
1:36:58actually look like? And I think that you
1:37:00were the beginning of this kind of
1:37:01evolution. Luigi, Arsham, where they're
1:37:04getting kind of these outside creatives
1:37:06to
1:37:09adjust the visual identity and more.
1:37:10>> It's a beautiful thing, you know, like
1:37:13getting people who are
1:37:15emotionally invested
1:37:18and who have a point of view.
1:37:21We've worked now like
1:37:24you know, I think this is This year will
1:37:26mark the eighth collection.
1:37:28So, I've been working with the Knicks
1:37:31since way before
1:37:34they got good,
1:37:36let alone great, right? And to me, it's
1:37:40like
1:37:41New York City
1:37:44What New York What the Knicks represent
1:37:45for the city is
1:37:48everything that I feel
1:37:51the city is about and everything the
1:37:53city feels like to me is like
1:37:54represented by the Knicks, you know, and
1:37:57growing up
1:37:58you know, with the '90s team
1:38:00>> Mason, Starks, Oakley.
1:38:02>> Mason, Starks, Ewing
1:38:04Oakley
1:38:06I mean, it was
1:38:07that time
1:38:09again, like everything you love when
1:38:11you're a kid, you're going to love for
1:38:12the rest of your life. I will love the
1:38:14Knicks for the rest of my life, like no
1:38:16matter what, you know? I unconditional
1:38:18love and we love them through their
1:38:20struggles. I am really happy that
1:38:23they're in a position that they're in
1:38:24now where they're getting the respect
1:38:26that they deserve and more importantly,
1:38:27Jalen Brunson is the best Nick of all
1:38:29time in my opinion.
1:38:31And we have
1:38:33such an incredible leader on that team,
1:38:35but also the
1:38:36personalities of the other players that
1:38:38I got to know Cat and Hart, like and
1:38:42Deuce
1:38:43and Alvarado, like yo, these guys are
1:38:44great guys, man.
1:38:45>> Alvarado is the Knicks.
1:38:47Literally. I think I think I think some
1:38:50people would think that's outlandish. I
1:38:51saw it You agree?
1:38:52>> Yeah.
1:38:52>> He's like just that gritty Puerto Rican
1:38:55>> so us. Like he's like from the city,
1:38:57like he represents it, puts the heart on
1:38:59his like he's
1:39:01very New York and I love that about the
1:39:03Knicks. Like I love that grittiness and
1:39:06that hustle from these players, but
1:39:09more importantly, like I know these guys
1:39:11off the court and they're great guys.
1:39:13Like I just spent a good amount of time
1:39:16with Josh Hart out east.
1:39:17>> I've hung out with him a bunch.
1:39:18>> He's such a good
1:39:20>> Matt Hillman, yo, great people, man. And
1:39:22that's that to me is more important than
1:39:24anything else. And also,
1:39:26you know, I think Jim Dolan is is a
1:39:28great owner.
1:39:30I do.
1:39:31>> We don't clip that one.
1:39:33>> I think he's a great owner.
1:39:35>> Why?
1:39:35>> Cuz he made the right decisions
1:39:37of putting the best in charge. You know,
1:39:40he made the right decisions for the
1:39:41team. You know, like
1:39:44Also, like
1:39:46I feel like he loves this team so much,
1:39:49man. Like and and I know cuz I'm there.
1:39:52He's there at the games like
1:39:56invested in it. You know, he's not just
1:39:58a typical, you know, some of these team
1:40:00owners, they don't even watch the games
1:40:02the way that they should be like with
1:40:04the interest of the win like
1:40:06in the way that I see him.
1:40:07>> So, it hurt when they were losing. It
1:40:08hurt him.
1:40:09>> It definitely hurt him. Definitely.
1:40:11>> you don't see that. Or you you just saw
1:40:13it trash for so long. And obviously West
1:40:15and the new like all of that coming in.
1:40:17>> but dude, it's like dude, it's when you
1:40:20This is New York City, man. Like the
1:40:22amount of publicity
1:40:24you know, good or bad that you're going
1:40:26to get in that position,
1:40:28it's nobody can [ __ ] deal with that,
1:40:31you know, like
1:40:32I we won't I'm I'm not going to get into
1:40:34any specifics, but I will say this.
1:40:36I think the organization is a winning
1:40:38organization. It's
1:40:41it stands for
1:40:43you know, the best of New York City and
1:40:45they have the people in charge right now
1:40:47between West and Leon that I think is
1:40:49the best league-wide. I think they're
1:40:51the best tandem league-wide.
1:40:53There's no one better.
1:40:54And what we put
1:40:55>> bold moves they made that year.
1:40:56>> What we put together to win a chip. Do
1:40:58you know how how crazy that was for like
1:41:01us to be in that position after a few
1:41:04just a few years before that?
1:41:07>> The craziest thing about it is it was so
1:41:09close that not only not working, but
1:41:12everyone being like he's the [ __ ]
1:41:13worst. Like I'm so happy what happened
1:41:15with Cat cuz Cat was literally so close
1:41:17to it going the other way. And now for
1:41:19me, I think Cat's a Hall of Famer now.
1:41:21I think he is right now. If you actually
1:41:22look at his numbers.
1:41:23>> Yeah.
1:41:23>> Yeah. He's a champion now and he was a
1:41:25huge part of the championship.
1:41:26>> I I think so, too. But also unlocking
1:41:28him the way that we did.
1:41:29>> 100%.
1:41:30>> You know, like
1:41:31But but you know what? Basketball aside
1:41:34because you know, it's when you get to
1:41:35know these guys, basketball becomes
1:41:37secondary to these guys. They're like
1:41:39good people, you know, and and that's
1:41:42that's what I think makes a big
1:41:43difference. So,
1:41:44good on them. I really
1:41:47hope that this season is going to be
1:41:50just as good as last year's if not
1:41:51better. We have an incredible collection
1:41:53coming this year, as we do every year,
1:41:55but this year we're celebrating I could
1:41:57tell you that we're celebrating Walt
1:41:58Clyde Frazier this year.
1:42:00>> Love that.
1:42:01>> And some of the imagery that you see
1:42:02like
1:42:04there's going to be some really cool
1:42:05[ __ ] that we do there. And we got a
1:42:07couple other really great
1:42:09moments lined up for the Knicks. So, I'm
1:42:12very excited about that. And being in
1:42:13the role, you know, you asked me a
1:42:15question
1:42:16like what does that entail? And it's you
1:42:18know, we we we I meet with the team and
1:42:21we discuss the aesthetics and the
1:42:23digital content, what it looks like,
1:42:25what it feels like, and we discuss
1:42:27emotion. And that's very important.
1:42:30>> Same lines as Kith.
1:42:31>> Yeah, we apply that that and that's what
1:42:33I that's what I'm there to do, you know,
1:42:34is to apply the same that same lens.
1:42:37>> Most surprising thing with working with
1:42:38the Knicks? What would you say it was?
1:42:43>> The chip.
1:42:45I mean like it's it's not It was It was
1:42:48an expectation that I think people had
1:42:50from the beginning of the season, but
1:42:52it's surprising in a way where, you
1:42:55know, you see this many people come out
1:42:57the way they did and this the whole the
1:43:00whole city getting behind it in the way
1:43:01that they did. Like it's crazy to see
1:43:04cuz I mentioned it if you go back to the
1:43:06Roommates podcast, I mentioned that I
1:43:08thought that the Knicks were the most
1:43:10culturally relevant team in the world.
1:43:12And then that that was way before they
1:43:14won the chip, and then you see what
1:43:16happened after they won the chip, and
1:43:17then you see why.
1:43:19When the Knicks are good, the city is
1:43:21great.
1:43:22>> The NBA is great.
1:43:23>> Oh, the NBA That goes without saying.
1:43:25The NBA is more than great, but the
1:43:27city, what the city felt like during
1:43:29that run,
1:43:30it was insane. And I I had
1:43:34it was [ __ ] up, but I had a a
1:43:35procedure done on my leg. I had melanoma
1:43:38at the time that they were winning in
1:43:39the chip, and I had to have
1:43:41surgery on my leg, so I couldn't make
1:43:44it. I I made it to
1:43:46I think it was game I made it to game
1:43:49three,
1:43:50and they lost that game. But, I had to
1:43:52walk because [ __ ] Trump came, and
1:43:54they shut down 20 square blocks, and I
1:43:57wasn't supposed to walk on my leg, and
1:43:59then I ended up having to walk
1:44:01like 3 miles to get to my seat.
1:44:04I was in so much [ __ ] pain, but it
1:44:06didn't matter.
1:44:07>> Well worth it.
1:44:07>> But, then I didn't go to game four
1:44:09because they told me that they're
1:44:10shutting down around the arena again.
1:44:12So, I ended up watching it at Ivy.
1:44:15And my friend Dan went with his kids,
1:44:18and I remember at halftime he was like,
1:44:21"Yo, my kids are crying. They don't want
1:44:22to be here. I told them we can't leave."
1:44:24I was like, "Dan,
1:44:25place a [ __ ] bet. It's going to turn
1:44:27around. Trust me." And
1:44:29and they ended up winning.
1:44:31>> What was your game?
1:44:32>> Yeah, that's OG game, game four. And I
1:44:33missed I missed that game because of my
1:44:36what I had, my procedure to my leg.
1:44:38And then I was supposed to go to San
1:44:39Antonio, but I couldn't go. So, like I
1:44:41missed what I
1:44:43typically would have done. Like, I would
1:44:44have gone to the games, and I'll always
1:44:47remember that being a very shitty part
1:44:49of the run. And then it when it comes to
1:44:51like watching when it when the closeout
1:44:53game like I have to watch a closeout
1:44:55game by myself. Like, if I'm not at the
1:44:56game, like I have to watch it solo.
1:44:58So,
1:45:00I watched it solo, and I was like I
1:45:01watched it with my wife, but that was a
1:45:04crazy few days, man. It was just the
1:45:06best.
1:45:07>> That was the World Cup, too. That was
1:45:08like a nice 2-3 week bender. We were
1:45:09here shooting. You just felt it
1:45:11everywhere.
1:45:13>> Dude, you're if you're you're out no
1:45:14matter where you lived, I don't care if
1:45:16you even if you're like European or
1:45:18Asian, like your algorithm was getting
1:45:20bombarded with Knicks [ __ ] everywhere.
1:45:23It was crazy.
1:45:24>> Memes were so good. And just the people
1:45:25going outside going absolutely [ __ ]
1:45:26ape [ __ ] We'll pop a bunch of those up.
1:45:28The Gary [ __ ] Vaynerchuk. We'll pop up
1:45:30that episode as well, him just going
1:45:32[ __ ] nuts in the middle of nowhere in
1:45:34Poland at like [ __ ] 3:00 in the
1:45:35morning.
1:45:36>> Yeah, man.
1:45:36>> Yeah.
1:45:37>> Yeah, Gary Gary's a real fan, man. And
1:45:39I'm a I'm I love Gary, but he's he's a
1:45:41real one. You know, we've been to the
1:45:42games together and we've actually went
1:45:44to away games together and he's a
1:45:46[ __ ] real one, man.
1:45:47>> He is. He loves the Knicks.
1:45:48>> I want to just talk a little bit about
1:45:49the future and the book before we get
1:45:51into Kith Strike. Let's talk about Kith
1:45:52today, the future, the legacy.
1:45:55I'm going to start with a crazy
1:45:56question. Would you ever sell Kith?
1:46:01>> I I can't answer forever on anything, to
1:46:03be honest. So, I I'm not going to say
1:46:05something
1:46:06and then, you know, be in a situation
1:46:09where I have to do something. I don't
1:46:10know. But right now, no.
1:46:12As of right now, no.
1:46:14>> And that's just how you make decisions,
1:46:15period. It's just it's never a hard yes
1:46:17or no. Everything is malleable.
1:46:18>> Nothing is a hard yes or no, because
1:46:20circumstances change in life. And I've
1:46:23learned that in so many other
1:46:25non-business-related matters. So,
1:46:28you know, we take it I like to think 3
1:46:31to 5 years out and we take it one day at
1:46:33a time, but I've changed my mind on so
1:46:35many things so many times, you know? And
1:46:38right now, I still have so much to give
1:46:41and I'm still able to be as creative as
1:46:43I ever have been.
1:46:45And I'm able to be a I think a good
1:46:47leader and a good boss. And as long as I
1:46:49feel
1:46:51like that's the case, then
1:46:53I I keep going.
1:46:54>> What has Kith cost you personally that
1:46:57people can't see? I know we talked a
1:46:58little bit about the journey.
1:47:00>> That's a great That's a great question,
1:47:01man.
1:47:02Everything.
1:47:04It's cost me everything. I mean, this is
1:47:08And this is I think
1:47:10what the younger generation
1:47:13like if there's anything that I could
1:47:14pass down
1:47:16to the younger generation, it's
1:47:18devotion.
1:47:19It's like such a an important word. You
1:47:22know, and and what I've sacrificed, the
1:47:24family time, the weddings,
1:47:26[clears throat] the birthdays, the
1:47:28vacations, the trips, the you know,
1:47:31the friend like I haven't been able to
1:47:33build like
1:47:35really true friendships,
1:47:37you know, where I'm taking time out to
1:47:40like and this is why I told you we do
1:47:42those trips because it's the only time I
1:47:44get to see my my friends.
1:47:46And those are my real friends, you know,
1:47:48like yeah, we're on group chats and
1:47:50you know,
1:47:51I [ __ ] around when I can and text and
1:47:54talk or whatever, but like it's it's
1:47:55very rare. And
1:47:57I just I don't have the time to get on a
1:47:59call
1:48:00and I check I check up on my friends. I
1:48:03call my friends like no agenda
1:48:07randomly just to see how they're doing.
1:48:09And that's what friendships are. No
1:48:10agenda is a friendship. That's what
1:48:12friendships are, right? So,
1:48:14I do check up on them once in a while,
1:48:16but I've given up
1:48:18I would say the biggest thing I've given
1:48:19up is family time.
1:48:21And that I don't mean with my wife and
1:48:22my kids. I mean with my immediate
1:48:24family, you know, my parents, my sister,
1:48:27my aunts, my cousin my aunts, my uncles,
1:48:29my cousins, like
1:48:31we used to when we were kids, we used to
1:48:32go away together on like summer
1:48:34vacations and that's no longer the case.
1:48:37So,
1:48:39I think I think that that's um
1:48:42but I but I got to say I'm I'm willingly
1:48:43doing so.
1:48:45No one's forcing me to do that, but I
1:48:47know what I need to do to maximize the
1:48:49potential of this and that's the problem
1:48:51with me and it's it's not a problem. I
1:48:53guess it's like a gift and a curse is
1:48:55that I always have to maximize the
1:48:56potential of whatever it is I'm working
1:48:58on.
1:48:59Like I'll never do something. If I'm
1:49:00sweeping the floor, I'm going to sweep
1:49:02the [ __ ] floor. Like the floor will
1:49:04be clean. You get what I mean? So,
1:49:07it's just the way that I am.
1:49:09And when I'm in something, I'm just
1:49:11[ __ ] in it.
1:49:13>> So, for someone that wants to build what
1:49:15you've built outside of devotion, is
1:49:18there any other big things that you'd
1:49:19want to pass on to the next generation?
1:49:23>> Work ethic, and I think that has
1:49:26a lot to do with devotion, which is
1:49:27getting demonized in this world we live
1:49:29in, which is actually
1:49:30>> Uh, that's why that's why I bring it up,
1:49:31you know, and and also purpose.
1:49:35Like
1:49:36people are moving without purpose.
1:49:39You know, I'm not cut from that cloth
1:49:41and I don't come from that era. I'm like
1:49:43half my life is pre-internet era. So,
1:49:45and I'm so thankful for that.
1:49:48I say half my life, but every year that
1:49:49changes cuz now I'm 44, so I would say
1:49:51like,
1:49:52you know, maybe maybe it's like 53, you
1:49:55know, 47. But
1:49:57moving with purpose, I think
1:49:59that would be my the most impo- the most
1:50:01important advice that I could give
1:50:03someone, but you need the context
1:50:04surrounding that.
1:50:06Finding a passion and then moving with
1:50:08purpose, you know, so like
1:50:11being passionate and then being able to
1:50:14be
1:50:15rewarded with happiness
1:50:18as a result of product
1:50:21is
1:50:24it all of the there there are pieces
1:50:26there that then make it worth it, you
1:50:29know, but
1:50:30for the younger generation that doesn't
1:50:32necessarily know what they they don't
1:50:34know what they don't know.
1:50:35So, like getting started
1:50:39is the hardest part, I think, for them
1:50:41because
1:50:42figuring out what they're passionate
1:50:44about is is harder than ever right now
1:50:47because they're being thrown so much
1:50:49information.
1:50:50>> So much [ __ ]
1:50:51>> So much [ __ ] that how can you really
1:50:53decipher between [ __ ] and substance?
1:50:57Like how how how are they going to weed
1:50:59through that and then pick
1:51:01what they think is the substance that
1:51:03will make them happy
1:51:04if they work at it.
1:51:06>> I just find it so hard to believe that
1:51:08there's someone right now
1:51:09working at a store in the stock room,
1:51:11building their way up and saying,
1:51:13"I'll wait 15 years to to get to this
1:51:15point." I just I feel like so many
1:51:16people are just looking for the fast
1:51:17track. That's really what it comes down
1:51:19to.
1:51:19>> And that and that and that's honestly
1:51:21like
1:51:22I want to believe that I'm not
1:51:26part of the
1:51:28reasoning behind that, but
1:51:32showcasing the end result of
1:51:34product sometimes can
1:51:38I think create that emotion. Like the
1:51:41end result is what they see. I wish that
1:51:43there was a way for me to showcase the
1:51:46process
1:51:47more than I do. And I'm going to try and
1:51:49I've been trying to figure that out. I
1:51:51really have been.
1:51:54I just I don't want a camera in my
1:51:56[ __ ] face all day.
1:51:58You know, that that that's my biggest
1:51:59and I don't I don't want to like
1:52:01>> I did that for 18 months. I had a guy
1:52:03follow me around for 12 to 15 hours a
1:52:05day.
1:52:06Basketball games, Turks and Caicos,
1:52:08meetings. It becomes
1:52:10it's weird from a social perspective as
1:52:12well, too.
1:52:13>> That and that's you know, that's
1:52:16I'm trying
1:52:16>> of How much of your life can you not
1:52:17show? I mean, that's the conversation I
1:52:18had with Gary, too, off camera. Is it
1:52:20just like
1:52:22he can't show like you're not going to
1:52:24show us the conversation in the room
1:52:25with the guy from BMW.
1:52:28You know? You're going to show us the
1:52:29B-roll.
1:52:30>> I wish that people were there for that,
1:52:32but I'm here to tell those stories. You
1:52:34know, it's not like I don't have those
1:52:35stories to tell. So,
1:52:38you know, eventually uh those stories
1:52:40will all come out in detail,
1:52:42uh whether it's now or post my career,
1:52:44whatever it is. And I and I'm here doing
1:52:46this podcast because I want to give
1:52:48information.
1:52:50So, if the right questions are asked,
1:52:51I'll sit down and I'll gladly uh speak
1:52:53on it
1:52:54because I want to inspire the youth. And
1:52:57you know, through our Connect
1:52:58Foundation, where we bring kids in and
1:53:00we bring like a cohort of 15 kids in
1:53:03every year. And we change their lives.
1:53:05They're like juniors in high school when
1:53:07they come in
1:53:08and they get to see what we do and
1:53:10you know, they they they get a you know,
1:53:12they get a a mentor
1:53:14um in different categories of the
1:53:15business
1:53:16and we help kids that wouldn't typically
1:53:19end up going to college. We help um
1:53:22you know, make sure that they then
1:53:23attend and we have like a 100%
1:53:26conversion rate on that.
1:53:28>> That's dope. I didn't know that. Guys,
1:53:29I'm going to pop down below some
1:53:30information on that. I did not know
1:53:31that.
1:53:31>> Yeah. Yeah, and it's it's a huge um
1:53:35It's a It's It's a big part of what we
1:53:37do. Uh I have some great personnel
1:53:39between Emily and Sharifa who head this
1:53:42um foundation within my office in
1:53:45Williamsburg.
1:53:46And it's it's a big part of the purpose
1:53:49around what I do. I'm trying to affect
1:53:50people's lives by giving them the
1:53:53information and the access so they that
1:53:55they they could build a passion for
1:53:57something, you know, like
1:53:59And I It's not for everybody and not
1:54:00everybody will become passionate about
1:54:02it, but if I could affect a few people
1:54:04by giving them insight and by giving
1:54:06them, you know, a foot in the door, then
1:54:09that's I think that that's the best that
1:54:11I can do, you know?
1:54:13>> You've passed off a lot on this book.
1:54:15Let's talk about this book. I know
1:54:16you're going to have a lot more coming
1:54:16down the pipeline. I have the 10-year
1:54:18book. The 15-year book is coming out
1:54:19soon. Why don't you tell us just a
1:54:20little bit about the book?
1:54:23>> The book is
1:54:24>> [ __ ] monstrous.
1:54:25>> It's I think it's the biggest book that
1:54:27Asuline has ever created.
1:54:29Actually, I know it is. It's definitely
1:54:31the heaviest.
1:54:32>> [laughter]
1:54:33>> And what the book represents is the full
1:54:36archive of every footwear release and it
1:54:39was re-shot and the whole book is shot
1:54:41by Tyler.
1:54:43>> He's an OG with the brand.
1:54:44>> OG with the brand.
1:54:46The only If Tyler wouldn't shoot this
1:54:48book, I wouldn't make the book.
1:54:51Truthfully.
1:54:52And
1:54:53>> Tyler's giving you those flowers.
1:54:54>> Nah, he knows that. I give him flowers
1:54:56every time I speak to him. So, like this
1:54:58So, the all of the shoes were re-shot.
1:54:59It took a long [ __ ] time. I think it
1:55:01took like 8 months.
1:55:04And then the index, so like
1:55:06it it shows it's by brand and it's
1:55:08chronologically by brand. And then
1:55:12Why don't you take a look at this? And
1:55:13then at the end of the book
1:55:16>> We're going to do a ton of b-roll on
1:55:16this book, too, but yeah.
1:55:18>> At the at the end of the book you have
1:55:20the index and the index is all of my
1:55:23>> This is massive.
1:55:24>> No, the book is the book is crazy, man.
1:55:28>> Damn.
1:55:30>> Yeah, it's everything. It's everything
1:55:32that we released and then the index, go
1:55:34to the end of the book where the page
1:55:35quality changes.
1:55:37>> Wow.
1:55:39>> Oh, yeah. You're going to wow every
1:55:40page, so don't do that. Oh, and that's
1:55:42everything. I'm just going to flip to
1:55:44the last page.
1:55:44>> say, I mean, we said a bunch of things.
1:55:46I think collabs is is is a big one. Your
1:55:48product photography.
1:55:51>> Yeah, we take that seriously.
1:55:52>> I mean, that is you are the number one
1:55:55reference point
1:55:56on that.
1:55:57>> I appreciate that.
1:55:58>> Wow, this is insane.
1:56:01>> Yeah, so it's it's by brand and
1:56:03therefore, you know, the purpose of the
1:56:04index is so you could see the samples
1:56:07leading up to the
1:56:08final product.
1:56:10You understand what I'm saying?
1:56:11>> Yep.
1:56:12>> So that people can understand the work
1:56:14that goes behind it and
1:56:16>> Wow, on a per SKU perspective, you're
1:56:18showing the match. Oh, wow, it's so
1:56:19cool.
1:56:19>> Exactly. And then the bold letters are
1:56:22represent the style that was released.
1:56:24And the non-bold letters are the samples
1:56:26leading up
1:56:27to the release.
1:56:29And sometimes they don't release at all.
1:56:31Sometimes it's just none of them are
1:56:32bold.
1:56:33Cuz they don't release.
1:56:35>> Ronnie's got a
1:56:36$20 million fund on the uh protos here.
1:56:39Geez, man.
1:56:40It's really wild to see some of these, I
1:56:42mean, have multiple protos, obviously,
1:56:43before. What do you hope people
1:56:46think about Kith in another 15 years
1:56:48under the the notion that you're
1:56:49thinking through that lens before we get
1:56:50into these final questions here?
1:56:54>> I'm going to expand
1:56:57what it is that we do.
1:56:59That's my biggest That's like right now
1:57:02what makes me happy and what makes me
1:57:04like excited is thinking about what we
1:57:07haven't done and then attacking it.
1:57:10And and accomplishing
1:57:13certain aspects of this world that
1:57:16people in my position wouldn't even dare
1:57:17to think about.
1:57:20You know,
1:57:21be being I got to tell you like the most
1:57:23frustrating part of
1:57:26what I what I do and I should say like
1:57:29in the earlier years specifically was
1:57:33people trying to dictate what it is that
1:57:35I should be doing
1:57:37and what I shouldn't be doing. Like what
1:57:39are you doing that for? Like
1:57:41you know, like their vision of the brand
1:57:45has a start and an end point.
1:57:48When really the brand is my life.
1:57:51So the end point to me currently today
1:57:53is when I die.
1:57:55Right? So
1:57:57I have dreams of [ __ ] that I would like
1:58:00to do.
1:58:01A lot of different
1:58:04avenues of like light of lifestyle.
1:58:09Human behavior. I want to change human
1:58:11behavior
1:58:13and have a positive impact on people's
1:58:16lives, right? And that's
1:58:18IV is the start of that.
1:58:20You know?
1:58:21And I think that where it goes from
1:58:22there
1:58:23is uncharted territory obviously, but I
1:58:26have I have plans that I'm in the middle
1:58:28of
1:58:30ideating and putting on paper.
1:58:32>> In the realm of hospitality?
1:58:35Starting from there?
1:58:35>> Hospitality is a portion of it.
1:58:38But I'm going to even like
1:58:41thinking about getting into a membership
1:58:43club and then having the impact that we
1:58:45did
1:58:46on that category
1:58:49I changed people's lives. Like people
1:58:53tell me it's
1:58:55like their lives are so much better
1:58:57because of the club that they're members
1:58:59of, you know?
1:59:00>> Good food. I've been there.
1:59:01>> Yeah, great food, but but the purpose of
1:59:03the club, you know? And and that's just
1:59:06one avenue. A membership club is one
1:59:08avenue. I'm speaking about other things
1:59:10that I'm going to get into, you know?
1:59:11And hospitality is definitely a like a
1:59:13passion of mine right now.
1:59:15>> Love that. That'll be a part two. All
1:59:16right, we're going to fire off a million
1:59:18[ __ ] questions right now. Before you
1:59:20go, I'd love your your opinion on this
1:59:22stuff.
1:59:22>> choice or what have we got?
1:59:24>> Kind of, yeah. They're They're quick and
1:59:25easy.
1:59:26>> Okay.
1:59:26>> Um one word to describe Nigel Sylvester.
1:59:30>> There's so many things that I could say
1:59:31right now. You want me to say one word?
1:59:33>> Um I was going to say menace.
1:59:35>> There's so many words that I could use
1:59:37right now. He's like
1:59:38a gem.
1:59:40That's what I would say.
1:59:40>> Jonah Hill.
1:59:43>> A product nerd.
1:59:45>> Jason Alexander.
1:59:47>> One of our best shoots.
1:59:49>> David Grutman.
1:59:50>> A unicorn.
1:59:52>> Greg Yuna.
1:59:54>> Actually the unicorn, but I'll say uh
1:59:56>> He should be the menace, actually.
1:59:59>> Just a really a really great friend.
2:00:01A really, really great friend.
2:00:03>> Your dad.
2:00:05>> Most important person in my life.
2:00:08>> I'm going to go through a couple brands.
2:00:09I'd love to know what you think their
2:00:10superpower is in the marketplace. Okay.
2:00:13Adidas.
2:00:15>> Their superpower is their history of
2:00:17court shoes.
2:00:19>> New Balance.
2:00:21>> The only independent brand left in that
2:00:25top tier of footwear.
2:00:27>> ASICS.
2:00:29>> The Japanese perfection
2:00:32that I admire.
2:00:33>> Clarks.
2:00:35>> Modern No.
2:00:37Craftsmanship brought into the modern
2:00:38era.
2:00:40>> On.
2:00:42>> Disruptor.
2:00:43>> Wilson.
2:00:44>> Strongest tennis
2:00:47heritage.
2:00:49Best designer not named you?
2:00:52Giorgio Armani.
2:00:55Top three sneakers or shoes in your
2:00:56personal collection?
2:00:59Specific shoes?
2:01:00>> Yeah.
2:01:01>> My Salmon Toe 6s that I'm wearing today
2:01:04cuz of what it meant in my career,
2:01:06the Air Max 95 neon
2:01:09in a new iteration that I can't talk
2:01:12about
2:01:13yet.
2:01:15And I would say
2:01:17New Balance
2:01:20990v3 in this UA colorway that's coming
2:01:23out with this book because that's the
2:01:25shoe that I always wanted in that
2:01:27colorway and it's finally coming
2:01:28together.
2:01:28>> The most underrated garment ever
2:01:30released by Kith.
2:01:33>> Every time we work on leather product
2:01:36out of Italy. So, we have this like this
2:01:38new calfskin that we that we sourced out
2:01:40of New Zealand that I really love and we
2:01:42made this leather jacket for fall. It's
2:01:44this burgundy leather jacket that you're
2:01:46also going to pop up on the screen right
2:01:47here.
2:01:48>> Hey.
2:01:49>> The I I would say our leather garments
2:01:51out of Italy.
2:01:52>> Uh looking back the collab Sole Provider
2:01:54retailer, what was that one moment that
2:01:56you think Kith really broke through?
2:02:00>> I think there are a lot of before and
2:02:02after moments for the brand, but I I
2:02:04will say I think the moment with LeBron
2:02:06was was massive [clears throat] when we
2:02:08opened the LA store cuz we opened LA
2:02:11with LeBron.
2:02:12>> What about Pippen, too?
2:02:13Or no, was that
2:02:14>> Yeah, the Pip Pippen
2:02:16it it Pippen opened the Pippen project
2:02:18opened my
2:02:19the Lafayette building
2:02:21>> Yeah.
2:02:21>> that I was telling you about when we
2:02:23moved from from Broadway. And the LeBron
2:02:25project opened the LA store, but working
2:02:28with LeBron, you know, a a lot of people
2:02:30don't know this, but I directed a
2:02:32documentary about LeBron on and off the
2:02:34it was called Long Live the King and it
2:02:36was about his life on and off the court.
2:02:38That was a great process and I think
2:02:40that
2:02:41working with Nike on that, that was like
2:02:43working with Nike's pinnacle athlete on
2:02:46presenting a new silhouette in the 15
2:02:50for the first time on the runway when we
2:02:52did our fashion show, and then having a
2:02:54shared patent with Nike on that
2:02:56silhouette that had a zipper that zipped
2:02:58all the way down the middle of the shoe
2:02:59that he played with, and then creating
2:03:01the shoes for his high school and my
2:03:02high school, like that moment was
2:03:04legendary. I think that that was
2:03:06probably the biggest before and after
2:03:08moment. There have been really big
2:03:10moments after that, but I think that
2:03:12that was a that was a game-changer.
2:03:14>> Best business advice you ever got?
2:03:16>> How about this? I won't give you the
2:03:18business advice, but I'll give you life
2:03:20advice that then apply to business is
2:03:23everyday should be unwrapped like a
2:03:24precious gift.
2:03:26>> It's nice. Mount Rushmore of Kith
2:03:28campaigns, pick four of them, the most
2:03:31iconic. We're going to pop them up.
2:03:37>> Seinfeld
2:03:41Edward Norton
2:03:43Scorsese
2:03:49and Adrien Brody.
2:03:53>> Proudest not work moment in your life.
2:03:56>> Both of my kids.
2:03:58Having both of my kids, both of my
2:03:59girls.
2:04:00>> Love that. Last four questions I ask
2:04:02everybody. Favorite book or podcast and
2:04:04why?
2:04:06>> Favorite book
2:04:08would be Right of a Lifetime.
2:04:12>> Lyle Lyle Lyle
2:04:13>> Yeah.
2:04:15>> You a podcast guy?
2:04:16>> I listen as much as I could. Again, like
2:04:19I don't have I live close to work, so I
2:04:22don't have that time.
2:04:23But sometimes taking a trip out east,
2:04:25I'll listen to I'll listen to podcasts.
2:04:27My favorite podcast episode I would say
2:04:31was the
2:04:33I would say it was Senra
2:04:36um
2:04:38>> Travis?
2:04:38>> No. Steve Stoute.
2:04:41Because Steve We need to get Steve
2:04:42Stoute on here. Yeah, Steve Steve Stoute
2:04:44is such such an important person in, uh,
2:04:47I I just I I loved everything like his
2:04:50his BTS commentary on like how things
2:04:53were happening
2:04:55behind closed doors in
2:04:57in music but also in in marketing gave
2:05:00me so much insight that I love to hear.
2:05:01So, I hit him up as soon as I heard that
2:05:03podcast. That was so much information
2:05:05that I didn't know about beforehand and
2:05:08I think that the best podcast actually
2:05:10like educate you and and open up your
2:05:13eyes to to things you don't know about.
2:05:15>> Great storyteller. Yeah. Entrepreneur or
2:05:17brand that you want to give flowers to
2:05:18and why?
2:05:20>> I'm going to say Aimé Leon Dore
2:05:22because
2:05:24I've known Teddy
2:05:25since he worked at a diner
2:05:28and I've seen him
2:05:31just do really beautiful things and tell
2:05:33beautiful stories and
2:05:35also bring his life and lifestyle into
2:05:39what he loves the most
2:05:41which right now he loves boating and
2:05:43you know, you're seeing that transfer
2:05:46into the brand. So, he's bringing his
2:05:47life into the brand which which I know
2:05:49is very rewarding but also very
2:05:51difficult to do.
2:05:52>> Great brand. I'm glad you said it too
2:05:54cuz I never know how to pronounce it.
2:05:55Yeah. How big can Kith be? Last
2:05:57question.
2:05:58>> No ceiling.
2:05:59There is no ceiling.
2:06:01>> Good ending. Appreciate you, bro.
2:06:02>> Thanks a lot, man. Appreciate it.
2:06:04>> [music]
2:06:29[music]
2:06:40[music]
2:06:44>> Hey.

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