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Kirk Bloodsworth: The Fight To End The Death Penalty | Town Hall Seattle — Transcript

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0:39online or text Town Hall two four four
0:43three two one two give tonight's
0:46presentation will be about thirty five
0:48minutes followed by a Q&A session Jackie
0:51helped guide from Seattle University
0:53will select questions from those
0:55submitted in the ask a question field at
0:57the bottom center of your screen we ask
0:59that you keep your questions concise and
1:01in the form of a question and we will
1:03try to get through as many as we can
1:04Town Hall's work is made possible
1:07through your support the support of our
1:09sponsors and all of our townhall members
1:12so your join me in welcoming Kurt
1:14Bloodsworth and Jackie Helfgott from
1:16Seattle University hello it's I'm Jackie
1:22Helfgott from Seattle University I'm
1:26from the Department of Criminal Justice
1:28where we have undergrad and grad
1:31programs and a certificate program in
1:34crime analysis and I'm the director of
1:38the crime and justice Research Center
1:40where we have continuing ed and training
1:44events research and service on crime and
1:48justice issues we also have an annual
1:52continuing ed event the death penalty in
1:56the age of data science and abolition
1:59and we're co-sponsoring this event
2:01tonight because Kirk Bloodsworth will be
2:04speaking at that event tomorrow Kirk
2:09Bloodsworth is the first person in the
2:12United States
2:13be exonerated from death row based on
2:16DNA testing in 1984 he was arrested for
2:21the rape and murder of nine-year-old Don
2:24Hamilton he was sentenced to death in
2:27Baltimore County Maryland in 1985 in
2:311989 Kirk read about a new forensic
2:35breakthrough called DNA fingerprinting
2:38and in 1992 lobbied successfully for
2:43prosecutors approval for its use on
2:46evidence collected at the crime scene in
2:481985 the tests in convertible II
2:54established Kirk's
2:55innocence and he was released in June
2:581993 after nine years in prison two of
3:02which were spent on death row today
3:06Kirk serves on the executive as the
3:09executive director of witness to
3:11innocence the nation's only organization
3:15dedicated to empowering exonerated death
3:18row survivors to be the most powerful
3:21and effective voice in the struggle to
3:23end the death penalty in the United
3:25States a Kirk Bloodsworth has devoted
3:28himself to abolishing the death penalty
3:31and addressing wrongful convictions and
3:34he has testified before the United
3:36States Congress as well as numerous
3:39state legislators he is co-author of the
3:43book Bloodsworth the true story of the
3:47first death row inmate exonerated by DNA
3:50evidence and he's the subject of the
3:54documentary Bloodsworth an innocent man
3:57and on a personal note I want to say
3:59Kirk has come to Seattle University to
4:03speak to our students year after year
4:06after year and he has been instrumental
4:10in educating undergraduate and graduate
4:14students about the harms that comes from
4:18the death penalty and in educating
4:21people on a national level and an
4:25worldwide
4:27about issues that have come from the
4:31death penalty in in America I'm going to
4:35turn it over now to to Kirk and again
4:39it's a great honor to welcome our guests
4:43Kirk Bloodsworth tonight hello Seattle
4:49and town oh how I hope you guys are
4:52faring this standing place orders that
4:59doing our thanks and it's barely trying
5:02time in 1984 I was a honorably
5:07discharged marine never been arrested
5:11for anything in my life I went to high
5:17school at Christian High School in 11th
5:19or 12th grade I joined the Marine Corps
5:23at 17 when in the early and my parents
5:26saw it for me to go and I went and I
5:30came out a you know four years later and
5:35wanted to figure out what I was gonna do
5:38in my life I wanna be discharged guy and
5:41so in my where I'm from is Dorchester
5:46County Maryland on Maryland's Eastern
5:48Shore and most of the Bloods worst that
5:53they grew up in in that town became
5:57fishermen and I was you know one myself
6:01my father was one his father as a matter
6:03of fact there's a as an island in the
6:06Chesapeake Bay named after my family
6:08called Bloodsworth Island you know we
6:12were blue-collar working-class bunch of
6:16you know family and you know I do wanted
6:20to work on the water and I worked into
6:22business with my father and did all the
6:25same 19
6:30I guess it was the winter of 1984 I met
6:34my first wife Wanda who was from
6:38Baltimore
6:40Dorchester County in the town I come
6:42from Cambridge Maryland it's about 100
6:45some miles from Baltimore in essence and
6:49I got married in April of that year to a
6:53gal from Baltimore you know we I don't
6:58know we fell in love and I wanted to be
7:01with her so I decided to leave the
7:06fisherman's life and go to Baltimore why
7:11my wife was missing she didn't like
7:14there's a lot of hours as a fisherman to
7:17commercial fishermen you know it's it's
7:19you know it's not the Bering Sea fishing
7:22that you guys probably know about but
7:24certainly it was six days a week you
7:27know 15 16 hours a day all summer from
7:32you know May till October I met Wanda in
7:40in Baltimore with some friends at a
7:43local bar up there I was 23 years old I
7:49didn't know that's chance meeting with
7:52cause me you know our marriage would
7:55cause me any kind of strife whatsoever I
7:58just wanted to you know get married and
8:01and make a living and you know trying to
8:04be honest and it seemed to change for
8:10the worse though
8:13on July 25th 1984 a little girl by the
8:17name of dawn Hamilton and found brutally
8:21murdered in a wooded area near her home
8:23a search had ensued for the killer who
8:28was described as I wish I was standing
8:30in front of you all so I could tell you
8:33the difference here but it was described
8:35as follows
8:35six foot five curly blonde hair which
8:39she mustache tanned skin and skinny I
8:44was about 6 foot tall weighed 200 some
8:47pounds back and I said my hair was just
8:51red as an apple back in those days how
8:55were classes headed missing teeth in the
8:56front and you know certainly wouldn't
9:02tan cuz I was rented you know it's never
9:09thought in my wildest imagination or
9:14nightmare that I'd ever be accused of
9:17something like this my wife and I at the
9:20time were having troubles and I had one
9:24up there on 4th of July weekend I wound
9:27up leaving August 4th weekend off later
9:29I had to leave Wanda she was we just
9:33didn't see the odd eye on what marriage
9:35was like and it turned out you know did
9:40the young boy she was 10 years my senior
9:43she just didn't want to be married I
9:46don't think and so I went back to
9:47Cambridge this whole thing started by a
9:52next-door neighbor I was living in when
9:55I was living with Wanda in Baltimore
9:58when the crime I was all over the news
10:00everywhere was in the papers and people
10:02were looking and so it all started from
10:05an anonymous tip that came in on the
10:07Baltimore County this is where Dawn was
10:10murdered in Baltimore County Maryland
10:14about a man and she said and I quote the
10:18composite sketch looks like my neighbor
10:20curtly
10:21so two police went over to where I was
10:25supposed to be I guess they thought and
10:27I had already left you know Wanda by
10:33August 4th and went back to my hometown
10:37of Cambridge hoping to get mine
10:40commercial fishing job back that I was
10:43with this other commercial grammar we
10:47called blue cramps and no it's just
10:52didn't seem to work out next thing I
10:55know on August 9th 1984 and 2:45 and a
11:00warden it was a bang on my cousin's door
11:04where I was staying
11:05boom boom boom open up
11:08the Baltimore County Police Department
11:10and I went to the front door I'm
11:13standing there and I had a pair of silk
11:15running shorts on that I wore back then
11:17and no shirt no shoe was a hot summer
11:22back in 1984 he said step outside mr.
11:25Woodruff you under arrest
11:27first screamer dolphinese Hamilton son
11:31of a [ __ ] jazz like that I told them
11:37from the start I had nothing to do with
11:39the crime I heard about it through the
11:42news and food you know TV news and in
11:47the newspapers just like everybody else
11:48I you know I kept telling them I didn't
11:55have any money I couldn't afford a
11:56really good lawyer wound up spending you
12:01know fifty thousand dollars did my
12:03father head he actually merged his house
12:06to try to help me and next thing I know
12:10I was on the board we can
12:15Detention Center waiting to go to trial
12:18and they were seeking the death penalty
12:19in my case there was a lot of suspects
12:23in this case there was a suspect he came
12:26in eight days before I was arrested a
12:28man that was seen the day of the murder
12:32running a you know it's far from it
12:35running and wiping his face off him but
12:38nobody went back to check that car just
12:40remember that and because of the on his
12:44tip they came you know there was two
12:49calls on the on the police tip line and
12:53they came in and wanted to find me right
12:58away so he came to Cambridge took me
13:01back from cavers and rode me all the way
13:03up to Baltimore and that's where the
13:05nightmare really started I told them I
13:08was innocent I had no idea I couldn't do
13:12anything like they were suggesting and
13:14there was no physical evidence in the
13:17case whatsoever other than a why
13:19witnesses now they arrested me on a
13:23Thursday August 9th so they wanted to
13:26hold her lineup on that Monday that
13:30coming Monday and they called all the
13:35witnesses in the case I told them not to
13:37watch television we've arrested a
13:39suspect and by the way his name is Kirk
13:41Bloodsworth and there was five I
13:46dedicated identification witnesses at
13:49all who positively said it was me that
13:53day so they came to the lineup and the
13:56two main witnesses were two little boys
13:58810 years of age who had seen this
14:02person
14:03supposedly walking off into the woods
14:05with Donald leading the way she had had
14:10a sleepover that night before and was
14:16playing a game of hide-and-go-seek with
14:18her friends at day and came across these
14:23two little boys were officially
14:25asked him if they could help her find
14:28her friends of course they declined they
14:30just caught this turtle it's more
14:32interested in that and but this man on
14:36the rise of a hill spoke up and said he
14:40could he could help her fill on her
14:42friends and but don't leading the way
14:45that was the last time she was she was
14:48found 2:30 that afternoon in a pile of
14:51leaves and not I have to tell you it's a
14:54graphic crime this is the worst thing in
14:57the world that could ever be done to
15:01anybody in this to a child my goodness
15:05said he were interested in getting a
15:08person now they held this line up on
15:10that one day as I was telling you now
15:12the two main witnesses came and neither
15:14one of them identified me into lon
15:17it wasn't until two weeks later they
15:19stay called their parents call the
15:21police department said they're their
15:26children had made a mistake it's really
15:27number six and that's the position I
15:30stood in in the line and then the
15:33snowball started eight months later I
15:37was sitting in a trial of all these
15:39people
15:40yeah leering at me cursing me for what
15:45they believed I had done and I
15:48experiment about my innocence I told him
15:50you know I was shouted from the top of
15:53my lungs as much as I could I was not
15:55guilty I had nothing to do with this but
16:01I didn't have Perry Mason if some of you
16:05are old enough to know that guys it or
16:07you know Johnnie Cochran or none of
16:10these guys this is the guy I am now I
16:14want you to picture a prison visiting
16:15room okay now your lawyer the first
16:19lawyer I ever had so he comes in off the
16:21street he's gonna reference represent me
16:23in this case goes off the street sits
16:25with his back to a brick wall
16:29and we have to talk through the glass
16:31that we have to get on the phone to talk
16:32through the glass and he's sitting with
16:34his back to a brick wall and the first
16:36thing out of his mouth he says Kirk you
16:41in a lot of trouble I thought that it
16:43was various do to him right away he says
16:46but don't worry I know my way around a
16:48courtroom we're gonna find our way out
16:50of here together
16:51talked about the case about twenty
16:54minutes and one of only three visits
16:56this man came to see me before I went to
16:59was sentenced to death and eight months
17:03later and right before he gets ready to
17:06leave he reiterated saying is his Kirk I
17:09know my we're in a courtroom
17:11we're gonna find our way out of here
17:14together he put his hand on the glass to
17:17say goodbye picked up his briefcase
17:20turned around and ran right in the wall
17:26it wasn't funny then but that was the
17:30funniest thing that ever happened at my
17:32old time I was in there and you know
17:36read the book you know talk about all
17:38that stuff I wound up getting death and
17:43double life when a gavel came down on my
17:47death the courtroom erupted in applause
17:51given the gas and killaz has ever seen a
17:54partying until two or three o'clock in
17:58the morning for my execution
18:03eight years 10 months in 19 days in
18:07prison in 2 years on death row for
18:10something I had nothing to do now I'm
18:15not really going to talk about the
18:16prison stuff because you know honestly
18:18it's you know it's it's you what do you
18:25all think a man accused of killing a
18:28nine-year-old child it's gonna happen to
18:30him in his prison experience wasn't
18:33beautiful I mean I fought and I got hit
18:36in the back of the head with a sock full
18:38of bad reason I remember him taking me
18:41in that cell that first night and that
18:43door big door slamming shut you know
18:46he's about 300 pound or more and my life
18:52was over at 23 years old I became a
18:59prison library when I was in there I
19:04think six years in they love meet him
19:07become this librarian and one day I
19:11happened to get three books in the mail
19:14that I had no idea where he come from to
19:18this day I don't have no identity were
19:20dressed to be I might have sent it to
19:22one of them Columbia book clubs I don't
19:24know one of my family waited doesn't it
19:26but I got this book in the mail and it
19:29was called the bloody by Joseph Wambaugh
19:33and it detailed the accounts of the
19:35first time a new technology was used in
19:39criminal trongs
19:43DNA testing as it turned out this fella
19:48who developed it Alec Jeffrey's was the
19:52founding father of genetic
19:53fingerprinting found this information
19:56our DNA testing back Ray Graham the same
20:00time I was a convicted sense to death
20:03which I find very ironic anyhow I I was
20:10real interested you know because I
20:12remember you know there was no physical
20:14everything no fingerprints nothing
20:17but they did have semen on dawns under
20:20clothes and some other things and so I
20:23remember they were swathings and you
20:28know all these slides and different
20:30things many spermatozoa seen so I wrote
20:34to prosecutor myself said look I want to
20:37take his new test called DNA testing or
20:40genetic fingerprinting and I want to
20:42prove - offensive bra she wrote me back
20:45a letter she said mr. Bloodsworth we
20:48regret to inform you that DNA has been
20:50inadvertently destroyed I had no idea
20:59what to do at that point I got so angry
21:02you know because Dave withheld evidence
21:05my case was overturned and they withheld
21:08evidence about another suspect and he
21:11wasn't the real killer but I was retried
21:12and sentenced to double life you know I
21:15just didn't have any idea what I was
21:17going to do I didn't belong in this
21:19place so my lawyer at last resort his
21:22name is Warren he's the chief judge in
21:25spirit court in Washington DC he's he
21:31did know his way around the courtroom
21:32I asked him to go look for the DNA
21:35evidence that they prosecutors said they
21:37and inadvertently destroyed I just
21:40didn't believe it they didn't know where
21:42it was as it turned out I was writing my
21:48lawyer went there to look for the
21:50evidence and you know he didn't been
21:52there and a couple of times he couldn't
21:53find him he goes back this last time
21:56because I told him if he didn't go I was
21:57gonna call him collect 20 times a day
22:01and he said he was gonna come back to
22:06prison tell me he could still couldn't
22:08find it they probably destroyed it
22:10whatever and he happened to pass my law
22:13clerk in the second trial my judges my
22:15second charge as law clerk in the
22:18hallway and he says he says Bob what are
22:22you doing here he says I'm I'm looking
22:25for the dawn Hamilton evidence in a Kirk
22:27Bloodsworth case
22:28and he said well I know where that's at
22:33it was in the judges closet in a paper
22:36bag in a cardboard box sitting on the
22:39floor
22:41eres the evidence doors justice in mine
22:45all sitting in a box your life shouldn't
22:49be relegated to a treasure hunt now that
22:53took about a year for the test results
22:56to get back and you know I remember that
23:03time my life so vividly I was 30 I was
23:07going on 31 32 years of age in in 1993
23:15my 33 and anyway I you know I had no
23:23idea what was gonna happen it was a
23:26chance that they could find any any
23:30material but it was half of one cell
23:34I've seen it they found on dogs under
23:38clothes and it proved you know then I
23:43wasn't the one responsible for
23:45depositors of the scene I remember
23:51reading that report in April of 1993
23:55in January of that year my mother died I
23:58was in prison waiting for the DNA test
24:01was over I never got to see her other
24:04than five minutes in it and her casket
24:08flanked by two guards with 9-millimeters
24:11went back to prison as a man but this
24:16was my life now I have to tell you that
24:21on June 28th coming up next month I've
24:26been out now 28 years this year and but
24:34I stepped down into Maryland
24:35penitentiary and a death sentence and a
24:38Caprican vation
24:39a free man eight years ten months and 19
24:44days of my life was gone and we weren't
24:50no closer to find out who the real
24:52killer was I received a pardon and
24:56$300,000 in compensation from my trouble
25:00William Donald Schaefer the governor of
25:02Maryland pardon me and I received that
25:05little bit of money it's comes to about
25:07$3 something an hour if you count it
25:12like that but all I ever wanted was to
25:16find out who killed don't have another
25:22ten years were passed in the same
25:24prosecutor who called me a monster in
25:27two different trials was on the other on
25:33the caller ID it said Baltimore County
25:35government there were people who did all
25:38this and it was the same prosecutor and
25:43she said we
25:44I've updated on the dawn Hamilton murder
25:46case and we like to talk to you this was
25:48in 2003 we were just trying to finish
25:53Bloodsworth the book that son that you
25:56can purchase along this thing and I I
26:05didn't know what to say to her she said
26:07well we need to talk to you can I meet
26:10you anywhere in in Maryland so I met her
26:16in Cambridge where I grew up in to
26:18Burger King unlike my office
26:22she sat there and told me that they had
26:25an update on a murder case and it was
26:27Kimberley Schaefer that was the report
26:32that came in eight days before I was
26:34arrested you never went back to check he
26:40was in the same prison with me for five
26:43years in a tear below me and never said
26:46a word
26:47and he wasn't six foot five he was five
26:51foot 660 pounds I have to tell you dawn
26:58got justice sent day he pled guilty to
27:00dogs murder and may event of 2004 and he
27:07was arrested three weeks after my
27:09original arrest for attempted rape of a
27:12woman in Fell's Point Maryland he kicked
27:15in her door and tried to cut his throat
27:20but dawn and I both had justice that day
27:23I have made it's my my life work to I'm
27:30opposed to the death penalty straight up
27:32if he could do when it did to me it can
27:35do it to anybody
27:37any moment it once the death family
27:40needs to go and you know I worked out
27:43Washington state with witnessed
27:45innocence has been out there numerous
27:46times over the years to abolish the
27:49death but it's just been a vile sin and
27:51the state and I think it's the best
27:53thing he could ever happen I
27:56so Boston in my home state helped
27:59abolish it
28:00it took 20 years to do that but in 2013
28:03we did and you know and I I work for our
28:10organization it's called witness to
28:12innocence it's a nonprofit organization
28:14that is buying for death row exonerees
28:17and their family members and it's been
28:21around for 15 16 I think 17 years this
28:26year and it was co-founded by sister
28:29Helen Prejean in ray Krone another death
28:32row gallery from Arizona I I can't say
28:42enough that it's important that we put
28:46the right people in jail but we
28:49shouldn't be executing people for this
28:52very reason there's a hundred and sixty
28:54eight exonerated death row survivors in
28:58America we don't need anymore we need to
29:02stop executing people because if it
29:06could happen if it happened to me can
29:11happen to anybody don't let it happen I
29:14thank you for your time and if you got
29:18any questions please be free of ask okay
29:27so now we have time for some questions
29:30so if you want to just you can post your
29:34questions in the chat and I will read
29:40them out to Kirk
29:48and I can start us off while people are
29:51thinking about oh wait we might have one
29:53here okay we have a Chris Megan so the
30:00question is would you consider yourself
30:02a prison of prison abolitionists why or
30:06why not a prison abolitionist
30:12yes me age at abolish prisons yes well
30:21you know I don't know I think there's a
30:24certain sector of society that
30:26I mean it's people that's gonna do us
30:29harm I just don't think we should be
30:32executed I also don't believe we should
30:35be mass incarcerating the people for
30:39drugs and other stuff like that you know
30:41we need to change up some of the things
30:44that we do and you know not go after the
30:48pound of flesh and the death totally
30:50certainly does that okay any any other
30:55questions well people are thinking I'll
31:01ask you a question Kirk you know I've
31:04heard you speak many many times and I'm
31:07always struck by just you know after
31:10your experience being on death row and
31:13just the the you know just the
31:15horrendous experience of all this that
31:17you've described you always come across
31:20as so hopeful you know year after year
31:24you've devoted your entire life to
31:27helping exonerees and to abolishing the
31:30death penalty how do you maintain your
31:33hopefulness and then related to your
31:38work on the the death penalty which
31:40you're just relentless in terms of 28
31:43years you've been free and you never
31:45take a break trying to you know work for
31:48towards this cause so what what more do
31:51we we need to do on this issue so two
31:54questions how do you maintain
31:56your hope and that perspective and what
31:58more do we need to do for those people
32:00who are still on the fence or in support
32:03of the death penalty well you know it's
32:08we just had an execution today
32:12Walter Barton and last thing he said was
32:15a man that's what keeps me going because
32:18how can you turn it back if you do make
32:22a mistake can we be mr. Barton back to
32:25this world could you you brought me back
32:27I don't think so
32:29you know it's we need to stops doing
32:32something for the sake of the innocent
32:35people that could get accused you know
32:37we have a prison population of 2.3
32:43million prisoners I I have to say that
32:47we'd be we can't be taking that you know
32:52that much of a chance and as far as
32:55hopefulness I you know I try to be as
33:00optimistic as I can and do the right
33:02thing for people they can't speak for
33:05themselves we don't need you desperately
33:08anymore we've had it enough and you know
33:12it's it's it's it's obvious that we got
33:17to stop thinking about taking somebody's
33:20life there's enough things in this world
33:23that takes our lives that we need to be
33:26focused on okay we have a couple other
33:30questions that have come in from Carolyn
33:33I don't know all the detail but I've
33:36heard that in Norway there's no such
33:39thing as a sentence more than 20 years
33:41regardless of the crime from your point
33:44of view do do they somehow look at life
33:46and themselves differently with that
33:48system work here in the United States
33:52I'm not sure if the system would work
33:55here or not but certainly a person can't
33:59do a thousand years you know I take that
34:01draconian sentencing that we've had over
34:05the you know over the years has we need
34:12to make a change and we need to start
34:15getting these somebodies you know making
34:21politicians making the fact that it's
34:23being tough on ground B not being tough
34:26on crime I think I think you're tough on
34:27society we need to start act in a way to
34:30find out a way to get these offenders in
34:34a different way and not keep putting
34:39disenfranchised and
34:40other people in ink just massive course
34:44or any people you know we it was only
34:46like three I know you think it was three
34:47hundred thousand just a few years ago
34:50and now we're almost up to three million
34:53it's you know we're going about this the
34:56wrong way we cannot incarcerate our way
34:58out of this I'd I really say that so I
35:01think Norway should be maybe one of many
35:05examples I you know I think a person
35:08should be give a chance to repent and
35:12you know or rehabilitation or so yeah
35:18okay we have another question from
35:22Candice are there connections that you
35:25made during your time in prison that you
35:27still keep up with today well yeah I had
35:32some good friends I was there's another
35:35guy he's he just got out but he took an
35:39Alford plea he we were in this you next
35:42door to each other on death row we were
35:45both on death row at the same time he's
35:48out now and you know make it face
35:50shields for people for this pandemic we
35:55got going on and you know it's have that
35:59but and then here's here's a neat one so
36:04just
36:05few months ago two of the guys that I
36:09was on the bus with were both rat
36:14buddies and they read the same charges
36:16but they had chestnut and ransom they
36:20both front we were on the bus together
36:2336 years ago they just got exonerated
36:26but Maryland Maryland Mosby prosecutor
36:31in Baltimore so yeah I am you know I try
36:38to do the best I can and and keep in
36:42touch with those folks out but we don't
36:44have a deaf Donnie anymore so not a
36:46state of Maryland okay we have another
36:50question from C from Megan what advice
36:58do you have for folks in the audience
36:59who would like to help advocate for the
37:01end of the death penalty
37:03Joanne witnessed innocence I mean that's
37:06the best one of the best ways to do it
37:08support our programs we have a program
37:11that's similar to this where we have
37:14three exonerees speak and it's
37:16facilitated by a lawyer who's on the
37:21board and it's called accuracy and
37:24justice so we also I'm doing a virtual
37:28speaking engagements for all of our
37:32members and support witnessed innocence
37:35and support abolition there's a kind of
37:39ton of ways you can do it but witness
37:41innocence we we can help you so that's
37:45witness Denis estar to work okay and
37:48then so without someone else Mary Kay or
37:52Kay has asked can you explain the Alford
37:56plea that you mentioned well the Alford
38:00plea is plead where you maintain your
38:02innocence but you are saying that the
38:05the court the prosecutor whatever might
38:11convict you anyway so you're submitting
38:14to that but you're maintaining your
38:15innocence I mean that's how I've
38:18learn it to be I I have to say that I
38:21find that plea unconstitutional myself I
38:25think it takes away from your original
38:27plea of not guilty so now you have to
38:30have and it's all because they use it
38:34specifically for the express purpose of
38:38you can get out but if they were going
38:41to let you out why they got to make a
38:42special plea for you you're innocent or
38:44not and I I think that it's unfair
38:48because people who need compensation
38:50after that that's a good way to avoid
38:53States or to avoid it they use it as a
38:55as a tool okay we have a question from
39:01Esther did they find the real killer of
39:04dawn yes that's what I was ending up
39:07Esther it's he was he was called ten
39:11years after I was released and he was in
39:15prison with me below and a tear but he
39:18was not six for five he's five foot six
39:23ok let's see another question we have
39:26from Candace is there any impact on
39:28death penalty policy and States given
39:31that our prison system is more and more
39:33a for-profit system I'm not quite sure
39:38what the question is asking here see I
39:43think the question is see is their
39:49impact on death penalty policy in states
39:53given that our prison system is more and
39:55more of for I guess I I'm gonna Candice
39:58if you want to post another follow-up
40:01question to that but my guess is that
40:03question has to do with given that our
40:05prison system is more and more a
40:08for-profit system does that have any
40:10impact on death I'm guessing the
40:14question is any impact on the death
40:16penalty in states that have not yet
40:18abolished it I think it's you know
40:21pretty dangerous actually so you know
40:26you may you know I'm against for
40:30for-profit prisons you know the states
40:33to handle these things and you become a
40:37word estate and the idea that you get
40:40more punishment when you go to prison
40:42outside of you being taken away from
40:45society it's not the case you get ten
40:48years that's all you're supposed to do
40:50is ten years of your time inside for
40:53whatever crime you committed I just
40:56think it gives an opportunity because if
41:00you're for profit then you need bodies
41:02so they had this fellow right here in
41:05Pennsylvania I think there's a judge
41:08that sentenced you know we're pushing
41:10all these young kids to this you know
41:14for-profit prison here in state we can't
41:17do that anymore it's there is no way I
41:20think they should ban all profit
41:22for-profit prisons in America okay and
41:25then yet Candace clarified more if our
41:27prison system was more government-run
41:29would it be easier to pass policy that
41:32prohibits the death penalty so if there
41:34were if there were no privatization of
41:36any aspect of it's up to the legislature
41:41in any case and so I think the
41:46legislators have to realize as
41:49Washington did in Maryland that it is
41:52not worth you spend far too much money
41:56it's you know the arbitrary and every
42:00other kind of thing you can think of
42:03racial disparity I can keep going on
42:07it's just it's not worth it to for our
42:10society I think it needs to be we've had
42:13it long enough so he's okay
42:16and see we have another question from
42:18Megan what has been the most impactful
42:20way for you to make change well stand up
42:24against you know which he feels right in
42:28life if you know it's true and then all
42:32the people saying it's not don't just
42:34say well just because they're they have
42:37a higher position in life that they're
42:40the right you know you you know it's raw
42:43nobody would want to execute an innocent
42:46person not any logical way I don't think
42:51but if they still do it day is a chance
42:54they will and we can't take that chance
42:58just got to stand up against it and
43:00don't stop okay so do we have any other
43:07questions I was wondering - Kirk you
43:10haven't mentioned your exoneree rings do
43:12you want to mention the work that you've
43:14been doing on those yeah I don't I have
43:19to run and get it I got it on the
43:21keychain
43:22but I have an exoneree ring project that
43:28you could probably go online and see a
43:31picture of it fine
43:33it's I've started a couple years ago and
43:37it's I became a jeweler about five six
43:45years ago and had this idea to make this
43:47ring for exonerees from death row and
43:50then I turned it into exonerees you know
43:53we have over 2,000 some exonerees in
43:57America today and nobody's ever given
44:00them anything so I designed this ring
44:02you could look and try to find it on my
44:06picture if you look up Bloodsworth ring
44:08project you'd be able to find there's
44:10one this me holding I think there's a
44:13poster with me doing that from Philly so
44:17I've already given out and they're free
44:20- John Riis now somebody's got to help
44:22pay for but any cost about 150 apiece
44:26and to get them made depending on the
44:30price of sterling silver at the time but
44:32I designed it made it myself and it
44:34looks like an empty cell in engraving on
44:38it was done by a woman who works for
44:41Tiffany's and Marlin hazel and Nancy
44:49winter both helped me with this but I
44:52designed a ring and and they made two
44:55casick so we've given out two
44:5750 you can go to I think the innocent
45:00project you donate to the ring project
45:04itself on that and help out but you know
45:09I've got a bunch more I'm getting ready
45:11to give out soon okay and then I'll ask
45:15one last question I'll give anybody else
45:17who has it once asked a question just a
45:20minute here to think of another question
45:21but given all the people that you have
45:24worked with all of the exonerees can you
45:27talk a little bit about the experience
45:29that people have coming out like do they
45:31get compensation from the states where
45:34they're wrongly convicted what what has
45:36in if you can in a nutshell explain the
45:39experience for people after they're
45:42exonerated
45:43there is nothing that is waiting for you
45:46when you get out on exoneration if you
45:49have family and and of course family is
45:51going to help you but there is nothing
45:52the states and then some people have
45:55good policies and you know but trying to
45:58get them and jump through all those
45:59hoops you know I I came up with a
46:03program in 2003 excuse me in 2000 called
46:09Kirk Bloodsworth post-conviction DNA
46:12testing program you know that's a
46:14federal law we've gotten over 50 some
46:16people out a prison based on that to
46:19defray the cost of DNA testing I mean my
46:23goodness it's I you know join witness
46:29nests and we can certainly point you in
46:32the right directions and try to get you
46:35going but the DEF CON has got to go and
46:38and you know we need to compensate
46:42there's no compensation laws for for
46:45exonerated people there's actually
46:47things in place for people who committed
46:50a crime when they get out and it's
46:52called the Second Chance Act we need
46:54something on a federal level that helps
46:58these men and women because there's two
47:01women now that for from death row that
47:03are John rate found innocent both of
47:06them are members of my organization
47:09Sabrina Butler and
47:11and Debra milke from Arizona so you know
47:19there is no law no dancing thing that
47:24can give you any kind of compensation or
47:27help you want to get out and it's just
47:30like here you go
47:31you know you make it up know compensated
47:34people get better more money these days
47:37than they did back when I started but we
47:41need a compensation law from the federal
47:43government and also where does all your
47:45Social Security go we need to
47:48re-establish and there a new atif or the
47:51Social Security for the time they lost
47:52I'm all for that there is nothing for
47:55that either
47:56there's a big 10 year gap my Social
48:00Security give me so I you know that
48:02money I was good when I retire well
48:05what's gonna happen to that so there's
48:07arts and needs to be done okay all right
48:12well we will wrap it up and I'll just
48:14say you know it's always an honor to
48:16spend time with you Kirk and I do want
48:20to put another plug for Bloodsworth you
48:23can there's a little button at the
48:24bottom you can buy Bloodsworth and and I
48:27have to say I require this class every
48:31graduate student who comes to Seattle
48:32University Criminal Justice Department
48:34reads this book and I have you know we
48:37have students coming in all the time who
48:39are on the fence about the death panels
48:41here really just don't understand all of
48:44the aspects of the death penalty and and
48:47wrongful convictions and and and this
48:50story has just been so powerful for
48:53students of criminal justice but but
48:55best for everyone and so I just highly
48:58recommend this book I also want to
49:01mention we have this all-day event
49:04tomorrow at Seattle University Criminal
49:07Justice Department I know we have a few
49:10spots left but it's called data death
49:12the death penalty in the age of data
49:14science and abolition will have Kirk
49:17Bloodsworth with us tomorrow also sister
49:19Helen Prejean
49:20and King County Prosecuting Attorney
49:22Dance atterberg
49:24and also other speakers we have poets
49:28from strange fruit poetry poems on the
49:32death penalty and speakers from the
49:34Washington Innocence Project and
49:36researchers so that's that event also
49:38Town Hall Seattle tomorrow night is
49:40featuring sister Helen Prejean at 7:30
49:44and so I hope everyone can join a Town
49:48Hall Seattle tomorrow night for that
49:50event and I will just thank you all for
49:54the great questions and for everyone for
49:56being here tonight and turn it over to
49:58Shane all right thank you so much thank
50:03you both to you Jackie and Kurt for
50:05being here this evening is really an
50:07honor having you both here
50:08thank you everybody else who tuned in
50:11this evening if you enjoy this event you
50:14can find many more like it on our
50:15website town hall CL org and as Jackie
50:18mentioned we have another event with
50:20Seattle University tomorrow evening at
50:217:30 p.m. Pacific time featuring sister
50:25Helen Prejean we hope you will consider
50:28making a donation to town hall seattle
50:30your support will allow us to continue
50:32to provide events just like the one this
50:34evening if you're interested in learning
50:36more about Kirk's story you can purchase
50:37a copy of Bloodsworth the true story of
50:40the first death row inmate exonerated by
50:43DNA evidence you can use the link on
50:45this livestream page to purchase through
50:48our friends at the Elliot Bay book
50:49company and finally thank you again for
50:52being here tonight stay safe and have a
50:54great evening

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