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Kirk Bloodsworth, death row exoneree — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:16to introduce K
0:18bloodsworth who
0:21um was the first person in the United
0:24States to be exonerated for being DNA
0:29use of
0:30and uh he's from Maryland and he spent
0:33time on death row in Maryland and he now
0:36is one of the greatest advocates for the
0:38abolition of the death penalty and uh
0:41here he is he's also my
0:46[Applause]
0:50friend thank you so much phis and
0:52everybody Andy
0:55CL my name is Kirt bloodsworth and I am
0:58the advocacy director for witness in
1:00since you see this big shirt we have an
1:03organization and it is buying for death
1:06row survivors people who have been
1:08exonerated and are now free and have
1:11been found innocent in uh prison but my
1:14other distinction as phis uh said was I
1:18am the first death row in made in the
1:20United States to be freed by post
1:23conviction DNA Testament spent a total
1:25of 8 years 10 months and 19 days in
1:28prison and 2 years on on death Road for
1:30a crime at a commit all this happened in
1:33Maryland um many many years ago in 1984
1:38a little girl by the name of dawn
1:40Hamilton was found brutally murdered in
1:43a wooded area near her home a search
1:46ensued for the killer who was described
1:48as follows 6'5 curly blonde hair bushy
1:53mustache tan skin and skinny where you
1:57going I I had to tell you that my hair
2:01was as red as a fire plug back in those
2:05days and uh I had sideburns down to the
2:08side of my cheeks my mustache was red
2:12and I wore glasses and I had a Miss
2:14tooth in the front and I don't T about
2:176'
2:18tall um it's all started based on two
2:22identification Witnesses saying that the
2:25person they saw was this tall and and so
2:28forth and the next door neighbor calling
2:30the police and said the composite sketch
2:34looks like my neighbor Kirk and you can
2:37read the entire story um on
2:42bloodsworth the um tree story first
2:45death I about DNA and by Tim junan and
2:50uh the movie um documentary is uh soon
2:53to
2:54follow I have to tell you that I was an
2:58honorably discharged Marine
3:00with no criminal record or criminal
3:02history i' never been for arrested for
3:04anything in my life and the next thing I
3:07know and then from the time I was
3:09arrested on August 9th 1984 when a big
3:13knock came on the door and the police
3:15were busting in my house and my cousin's
3:19house where I was staying and step
3:20outside Mr bloodsworth you
3:24so handcuffed me and put me in the
3:28police car and that was the last time I
3:29seen my town for I was 23 years old and
3:33never seen it again until I was
3:3631 I uh went through a trial didn't have
3:39a lot of money and my father tried you
3:41know we did everything we could for
3:44those eight years he put his house up
3:47for sale and mortgage his house and did
3:50everything he could and I had I had
3:52really really bad lawyers I
3:56had every lawyer I had up until the last
3:59lawyer I had was awful I had um there
4:02was um my first lawyer and then I love
4:05telling this story now I didn't like it
4:06at the time but I want you guys to
4:09picture a prison visiting room if you
4:11can now with a glass partition okay and
4:15so your lawyer comes in off the street
4:17and through an archway that's 8ot high
4:19and 10t wide and he sits with his back
4:22to a brick wall and he starts talking to
4:24you and he says he says Kirk and he's
4:27talking to me he says Kirk you're in a
4:28lot of trouble
4:30I thought it was very St of
4:33him he
4:35said but don't worry I know my way
4:37around the courtroom I know my way
4:39around the criminal justice system I'm
4:40going to find our way out of here
4:42together and I started feeling a little
4:44better you know he gave me a little
4:45courage and I just knew I was in deep
4:48trouble so we talked about the case for
4:51about 20 minutes one of only three
4:52visits this man ever came to see me in
4:54the 8 months it took to send me to death
4:56row and right before he gets ready to
4:58leave he reiterates what he said in the
5:00beginning I know my way around the
5:02courtroom I know my way around the
5:04criminal justice system we're going to
5:05find our way out of here together he put
5:07his hand on the glass to say goodbye
5:10picked up the his briefcase turned
5:12around and ran right into the
5:15[Music]
5:17wall he was right I was in a lot of
5:20trouble
5:22but the trial lasted about 2 weeks and I
5:26had all these people came forward this
5:28whole thing was based on a composite
5:31sketch not like I would be an artist
5:33rendering and I would do your comp
5:35composite sketch or anybody here by a
5:37pencil or something as you were telling
5:39me this was done by a kit made from
5:42Disney sets of overlays Eyes Ears noses
5:45mouth jaw lines hairlines mustaches
5:47sideburns so forth and it was compiled
5:50you have 25 choices of
5:53each and um it's put together to compile
5:58effect now the two many witnesses in
6:00this case was two were two little boys
6:03and um they had the older of the two
6:05little boy was 10 he was 10 the younger
6:08was eight and the younger one couldn't
6:11do the composite sketch the older boy
6:14still wasn't happy with the compos catch
6:15after he first done it he said the hair
6:17was wrong he said the eyes were similar
6:20but they weren't quite the same and the
6:22mustache wasn't right and it was all
6:25kinds of different things and the police
6:26just left ask him why the mustache
6:28wasn't right and then the little boy
6:30said well his mustache kind of went over
6:32on both sides like you know like that
6:35and um and just stopped on either side
6:38like a f Man chew boy's 10 how do he
6:41know what a f Man chew but he he showed
6:44him the picture to say Lloyd think of a
6:47food Man chew and he wouldn't put it on
6:48there the police officer it didn't look
6:51right to
6:52him and um and just remember that now
6:55because it's very
6:57important so they show him a picture
7:00that was I I gave them a photograph they
7:03questioned me early the day before I was
7:05arrested at 2:45 in the
7:08morning and u i I look everybody knows
7:12about it my ex-wife and I we were having
7:14problems at that time I I just left I
7:16went back to you know to Cambridge
7:18Maryland where I lived about 100 miles
7:20away from where the crime
7:23happened and uh and I said I heard
7:26everybody heard about it it's on the
7:27news it's in the paper it's
7:30everything just everywhere flashing this
7:31composite sketch all over the city and
7:34all over uh the state of
7:37Maryland and um nobody had a clue
7:42suspects were talked to there was many
7:43suspects in this case it was several
7:46there was a suspect who his name was
7:48Kimberly Shay rner who was let go two
7:51weeks before Dawn's murder for two
7:53attempted rap to two other little girls
7:55and his police report came in nine days
7:58or 8 days before I was was arrested and
8:00they never went back to check him check
8:02him out several other suspects it
8:04doesn't have any importance and none of
8:06the other suspects were ever ocated it
8:10or ever even questioned really or and
8:13none of them did it so I'll I'll let you
8:15off the hook right
8:17there the trial lasts about two weeks to
8:20have all these people pointing me out in
8:23the courtroom one right after the other
8:26five identification Witnesses positiv
8:29identifi me as the last person seen in
8:32around or with Dawn Hamilton that day
8:36and I was just you guys are great and
8:39they they um had a lineup I was arrested
8:43on a Thursday so they had a lineup on
8:45that coming Monday they called each and
8:48every witness in the case and said look
8:49we're have a lineup on a Monday don't
8:51watch
8:52television don't watch
8:54it everybody in the dorm Hamilton Mur
8:56case watched me on television the entire
8:58weekend they
9:00it's seen it so they come to the lineup
9:02the lineup's held the two little boys
9:03come everybody comes nobody identifies
9:06me in the lineup the two of the two
9:08little boys it wasn't until two weeks
9:10later their parents called the Baltimore
9:12County Police Department where the crime
9:15had happened in their jurisdiction and
9:16said our children have made a mistake
9:18that's really number six and that's the
9:21position I stood
9:23in well I I had an hour by I was I was
9:27home all day just about I I even uh had
9:31a girl came forward and said she gave me
9:34some
9:35pie you know I just try to find every
9:37single person a check I cash people who
9:40I was with everywhere I was not alone
9:43the entire day and this had happened
9:45sometime around um you know 12 or so and
9:49they found a body at 2:30 that
9:51afternoon and it was a horrible murder
9:54as she's Don Hamilton was a 9-year-old
9:57little girl that never heard of Soul was
9:59out playing I and go seek with her
10:01friends that
10:02day and uh you know she was bludging and
10:06just totally destroyed and I'm not going
10:08to get into it because it's God God
10:10awful and
10:11gastl but that's what I was accused of
10:14hon believe this Charles Marine no
10:16record and I was going to death row in
10:21Maryland after the trial was over after
10:23two weeks were done the gavel came down
10:26on my life and the sentence was death
10:30the courtroom erupted in Applause give
10:32him the gas and kill his ass what
10:36saying just
10:39um I I didn't know what to do I didn't
10:41know who to talk to my mother was crying
10:44in the front row and my dad was trying
10:46to interject to the judge and they CED
10:49me off to one of the worst prisons in
10:51the United States at the time the
10:52Maryland
10:53peny at 9954 Forest Street in Baltimore
10:56City two weeks before I I got there
10:59their guard had been disembed from a
11:01perceived insult from another
11:05inmate
11:07and you can just uh imagine what it was
11:10like going to prison charged with this
11:13kind of thing everybody was after me I
11:16became the most hated man in the state
11:18of Maryland for no other reason than
11:22somebody making a finger point to
11:26me I was in a cell that I could take
11:29Three Steps from the back wall to the
11:30cell door to the front cell to the cell
11:33door touch either wall by sticking my
11:35hands out and just going like that on
11:37the other
11:38side um stainle steel toilet in sink in
11:42corner and
11:44metal rack with my
11:47bed this is my home for a long time um I
11:51could hear the calls coming and when
11:53that 400 some PB door Slamm
11:56shut uh my life was over said I still
11:59remember it today it sounding
12:02reminiscent to a tailgate of a dump
12:04truck when it Clos it just like he's
12:07dumping me out you know into the sea of
12:11humanity and I realized
12:13in wow if this could happen to me you
12:17know it's probably going to happen to a
12:19lot of people because they didn't want
12:20to hear a thing I had to say not one
12:24thing just uh wanted me to take it you
12:29did it you got to own up to it and the
12:32gas chamber was the mode of execution
12:35back in those days and they were
12:37basically going to take you know s
12:40pellets and drop them into some gas and
12:43choke
12:45me um they had painted it and they would
12:48kill a pig in it every year just test to
12:50see if work you could hear that thing
12:52screaming
12:54sometimes um and this was my
12:57life on about uh
13:011986 the end
13:03of 86 I was convicted in ' 85 my case
13:07was overturned by the court of appeals
13:08in Maryland based on prosecutorial
13:12misconduct and them hiding a police
13:15report about another suspect and it's
13:17called Brady material and this is a very
13:20this is
13:21very um happens all the time prosecutors
13:25hide to have
13:26necessary and there not so much uh
13:30interested in uh the truth as they are
13:32about win
13:34C and I had uh couple prosecutors that
13:37were ready to do that at any any any
13:41step did anyone Bame me oh he did it he
13:44did it he did it he did it you know and
13:47I just kept tell no I didn't I was
13:49writing letters every day signing them
13:51letters and when I would sign them I say
13:53respectively submitted Kirk Noble
13:55bloodsworth a period i period M period
13:58an innocent
14:01B I just fell on deaf ears nobody wanted
14:05to listen to me bad laer another lawyer
14:07came in my second trial he was he was
14:10worse than the first one in a different
14:12way this time he was just really slick
14:14after halfway through the trial he was
14:17doing so good up until that point he
14:19really had the cops looking the B and it
14:21was all awful and he was really doing a
14:23thing and proving as soon as my Dad paid
14:26him the last money he turned around and
14:28said we need cops like you he did a he
14:31did a 180 from his present
14:33position and it turned out he was a
14:36state's attorney in Baltimore City and
14:40they I just I didn't trust anybody
14:43anymore convicted again this time I was
14:46sentenced to double
14:47life I wound up uh going back to prison
14:50innocent
14:51man already working on you know 5 years
14:55in and then 6 years in and then seven
14:57years in and then
15:007 and 1/2 years in I was a prison
15:02librarian for 7 and 1/2 years and I seen
15:06a lot of stuff when I was in prison I
15:07mean prison's not a very good place for
15:09anybody um whether you did it or not I
15:13mean I knew guys that actually didn't
15:15want to be there so bad they put both of
15:17their eyes out with two more two
15:20P um drinking Brasso from the shop and
15:25all different kinds of things that they
15:27would do to try to escape to hang
15:29themselves take a lot of pills and then
15:32put a plastic bag around her head and
15:33choke
15:34out this was my
15:37life and you know I got hit in the head
15:39with a sock full of batteries I got
15:41stabbed in the C with a welding rod I
15:43got hit in the chest with the master
15:45lock on a sheet
15:48roope my life was over and here I was
15:52almost 30 years old
15:54now I was a prison librarian I think I
15:57mentioned that it for seven and a half
16:00years I read everything from psychology
16:03to Stephen
16:06King please nobody ask me what that g
16:08book is about cuz I have no
16:12idea but uh about Quantum thinking or
16:15something but anyway I read this
16:18uh uh you know everything I could get my
16:21hands on one day I was sitting myself in
16:23this car puts these books on I don't
16:25know how I got them to this day I think
16:27it one of them book clubs or something
16:29and there was a book in there called the
16:31blooding when the first time uh was a
16:34detailed account of the first time a new
16:36technology was ever used in a criminal
16:38case called
16:40DNA back in 19 uh um see was
16:441989 that wasn't very prevalent it only
16:47had been done one other time in America
16:49by Gary doson was in a rap Cas and the r
16:54can recount her story
16:56anyway and uh nobody on death row to
16:59ever um I was the first person on death
17:02row to ever asked for a DNA test the
17:05problem was is that I I wrot the
17:07prosecutor I said look I want to take
17:08this new DNA test and so it'll prove
17:11once and for all I'm an innocent
17:13person and she wrot me back she said
17:15well do blood because they had slides
17:18swabbing possible seon staying on her
17:21underclothes and everything and she
17:23wrote me back and this is what she said
17:25she said Dear Mr Bloodworth we regret to
17:27inform you the DNA evidence has been
17:30inadvertently
17:32destroyed and I don't know how you
17:34inadvertently do it as a PR but I I they
17:37were same way he probably inadvertently
17:40never gave me the the other
17:43suspects but I didn't believe them and I
17:45had a lawyer who is a judge now in
17:48Washington DC his name is Bob
17:51Mor and Bob uh was appointed to to the
17:55bench in the spear Court DC Bob Bill
17:58Clinton uh some years ago and it's been
18:01on the bench basically since I've been
18:02out of prison and um he went to the
18:07tasing Courthouse to look for the
18:08evidence he went he said Kirk I've been
18:10there like three time you know just two
18:11times they' done something with it we
18:14can't
18:15find I said go back and check one more
18:18time so he goes back sure enough the
18:21aidence is not in the aidence room where
18:22it's supposed to be and he's getting
18:24ready to leave and come back to
18:25Baltimore to uh you know to I'm at Jess
18:28anex now to come back to the prison and
18:31tell me that you know I'm probably going
18:33to have to spend the rest of my life in
18:35this place for something I
18:38do he was getting ready to leave and
18:40happen to pass the court clerk in the
18:42hallway and um he said Bob what are you
18:45doing here he asked my lawyer you know
18:47well I'm looking for the dawn Hamilton
18:49evidence in the Kirk bloodsworth case he
18:50said well I know where that's at they we
18:53wound up being in a paper bag and a
18:55cardboard box in the judge's closet
18:57sitting in the floor
18:59and there was the evidence to my
19:02friend we sent it to one of only two lbs
19:06that were uh open at the time forensic
19:08science associates in California there
19:10was one in Boston and uh but he uh
19:13Boston and the FBI had not yet come
19:15online Dr Edward Blake was U was a big
19:19uh you know supporter that he works with
19:21Jim lusi and all these guys and has
19:24really been instrumental in getting a
19:26lot of people out so he was the best
19:27leading medist in the country at the
19:30time and um they were going to do a test
19:33of exclusion so he looked through all
19:36the evidence it took him a
19:38year and every time I get to this part I
19:42think about someone that's uh was very
19:44near and dear to me and that was my
19:46mother she passed away um just a few
19:50months before I was released from
19:52pris and
19:55U I I I miss her whole
20:00lot I was sitting in my cell one day and
20:03we had been waiting and waiting and I
20:05was you know very lonely and miss my mom
20:08and because she weren't coming to visits
20:10anymore it was just my dad my dad and I
20:13would just sit there and cry
20:15and you know this all things just hat us
20:17all up and I was now I was 31 years
20:21old you know it's like my whole life was
20:24gone in my 20s and from the ' 80s from
20:2684 to 93 over
20:30and I it was sometime in
20:34April um 21 years ago this uh next
20:38month and I was sitting on guard put a
20:41posting note in my sou door and it said
20:44urgent call your attorney
20:47urgent I go down to the firm and I call
20:50by more million th collect he used to
20:52call like 10 times a day you know and uh
20:56he would answer every single one he was
20:58is a very good lawyer and a very good
21:01man and he uh you know Bob moren's not a
21:05very good talker he's not loud like I am
21:07you know he doesn't have a gregarious
21:09voice he just he's very softspoken you
21:11know he talks real it's like a Whisperer
21:14I don't know how the judge has ever
21:15heard him when he speaks but he was
21:18screaming on the other L Kirk you're
21:21innocent man you're innocent well I know
21:25that what am I going to get out of here
21:27Bob
21:33yeah on June 28th 1993 I stepped out of
21:37Maryland Penitentiary free man first
21:40person to ever be um uh released U and
21:44exonerated based on post conviction DNA
21:47testing from then on I I went from
21:51one
21:54um from being a commercial fisherman on
21:57the Easter Shore baring all my
21:59life uh to being an
22:02activist and I did it pretty much as
22:04soon as I got out like was like a week
22:06later I was sitting in front of Don
22:08Edward's subcommittee talking about the
22:10innocence and the death penal I have
22:12been talking about the death peny and
22:14post conviction DNA testing for 21 years
22:17now and I know that death pelly is a
22:19wrong thing to
22:21have 10 years after I got out you know
22:24there was a lot of controversy about DNA
22:26back in those days everybody thought DNA
22:27was that great thing and it really based
22:30on who's doing the testing and what they
22:32testing and you know we can manipulate
22:34the system in any kind of ways this is
22:36all about integrity you
22:38know but um there was no question
22:41because my guy that did my test he was
22:43uh he set the FBI lab up he's the one to
22:47put it online himself and Dr ever Blake
22:50is without blemish he's uh he's a very
22:52good man half of one cell is what went
22:56up me and I was excluded
22:58as a deposit SE I received a full pardon
23:01from the Governor William Donald schaer
23:02of Maryland at the time and $300,000 for
23:06my trouble which all went back to the
23:09lawyers after I got reception about
23:1480 that I just blew
23:16anything I
23:18uh I didn't know what else to do but I
23:21had to fight the one thing that almost
23:22killed me and that was the death County
23:24Maryland and I'm as you all know sitting
23:26here most of you should
23:28that Maryland is without the death
23:30penalty buying LGE to a lot of work that
23:33I did and others like Su Graham and
23:41and witness innocence uh we were we were
23:43right on point in that place and uh I I
23:46I never let him breathe uh I just
23:49constantly they they mentioned my name
23:5164 times in the Senate hearing Alone um
23:55and I um it was truly one day when Way
23:59of the World fell off my
24:01shoulder and I've been involved in
24:03Connecticut New Jersey and different
24:05ones and uh recently we just went down
24:07to
24:09Delaware as it turned out 10 years later
24:12I was sitting in my office and the
24:13prosecutor calls me on the
24:15phone and I'm going to end it with this
24:18because you know how powerful DNA and
24:21and Truth is really
24:23is and the prosecutor said she called me
24:25on a Friday and I never forget it it was
24:27like I mean on Thursday and uh she said
24:31I want to talk to you but I can't tell
24:32you over the telephone but I'll meet you
24:33anywhere in your town of came to have an
24:36update on the Hamilton murder and but I
24:38want to tell you in person and uh I
24:41thought okay and um although I really
24:46didn't know what to say to her I said
24:48sure CU there was a lot of things I
24:51thought I could say through at the time
24:52but I I just I wanted to put an end to
24:55this thing and she sat down a local
24:58restaurant in Cambridge Maryland and
24:59told me the real killer was Kimberly
25:03Shay Ruffner the one that they had to
25:05police report about nine days before I
25:07was arrested and they never went back to
25:09check and he was not 6'5 he was 5 fo6
25:14and 160
25:17lbs it is without question the death
25:21penalty is one of the most arbitrary and
25:24worst policies in the United States
25:28we cannot no longer trust our system to
25:32uh if we can't trust our government to
25:33move snow we should not allow them to
25:36execute our citizens and I I do not
25:40trust our government to do that and or
25:42moose snow and I just want to say that
25:47I'm opposed the death py for this reason
25:50and my I know it's morally shouldn't
25:53happen it's it's uh and anesty is taking
25:55a big stance on it how moral it is is
25:57and and it's just a basic um uh it's
26:02just not right to take another person's
26:04life like kicking somebody when they're
26:05down when we have them we have other
26:07ways to punish these people and best
26:09practices um that we can keep the
26:12society safe without executing our
26:14citizen I realized that long ago we have
26:19143 people in the United States who have
26:21been exonerated 144 excuse me
26:26144
26:28for just a couple days ago was
26:30exonerated from deix list and
26:34um it is um amazing thing that we've had
26:38that many in a prison population of a
26:40death row that's 3,100 plus you can't
26:45imagine that uh we can still support a
26:49sentence of death with that many
26:50mistakes you know we have been talking
26:53for days about this plane that's missing
26:55from
26:56Malaysia how about all the people that
26:59sat down in Death Row V why are we
27:01talking about that and we need to start
27:04talking about these things and we need
27:05to start doing something about it in a
27:08state like Pennsylvania right here one
27:10of the biggest issues for me is is not
27:13it's DNA testing and it is they you know
27:16it's just bad Laing up front I mean
27:19lawyers up front make you so bad they're
27:21coming back in the days from Abraham
27:24they're all coming back so witness the
27:26Innocence along with uh uh partners of
27:30of U Pennsylvan for um a death py in
27:35Kathleen and all of us and and
27:39um uh Danny Cook and certain people were
27:41going to start a Philadelphia moratorium
27:43campaign we really kicked it off last
27:45year to uh get to Seth Williams or the
27:48city of Philadelphia to stop seeking
27:52death sentences in in around the city
27:55and kind of spread it out like a pebble
27:56in the pond so event EV the entire state
27:59will be death penalty free um I'd like
28:03to say that could happen tomorrow but
28:05this is Pennsylvania and uh so it's
28:08going to be tough but we can all do it
28:09if we do it together we have a um a
28:13postard campaign that we're going to run
28:14and you can talk to people like uh the
28:17wonderful and amazing uh Kathy spilman
28:20who is sitting over there who is our
28:22program officer um and Outreach director
28:25for uh witness innocence
28:28and we're going to have this campaign
28:30and we need anybody's
28:32support I have to tell you it's uh it's
28:35as plain as know as my face I look out
28:37in this public and I just came from
28:39Geneva Switzerland and spoke in front of
28:41the High Council on human rights and uh
28:45looked out in front of the world
28:47basically and told them the same thing I
28:50look at myself when I look at you and I
28:52don't want it to happen to you and and
28:54the world does not need it death home
28:58um you know Get Up Stand Up and Hold
29:01Your Head Up and even when it gets rough
29:04you get tough don't stop and uh we need
29:08all the support you can and support your
29:09exoneration we can s uh thank you very
29:21much who got
29:23questions yes can you Harbor any
29:26resentment your neighbor who imped you
29:30first absolutely not I don't I don't
29:32Harbor any ill feelings or ill will I
29:34forgive everybody that you know um has
29:38had hand in this um I just cannot you
29:42know it's what I want to do is do
29:45something about it you know light a
29:47candle instead of curs the darkness
29:49that's my deal yes over there can you
29:52talk a little bit more about the
29:54randomness of that guard as or clerk
29:57asking what are you looking for here is
29:59here it is in the box where at first
30:01they H it like well it wasn't hid the
30:03judge left it in his closet from the
30:05last trial and forgot about it they
30:08locked the door they never went back in
30:09it it was in you know and he happened to
30:11see it a couple days before sent in the
30:14floor New Hampshire passed the house of
30:16vote um uh 225 to 104 in favor of repeal
30:22so witness inis has been there I I went
30:25I started going there in October we've
30:27sent suj Graham down there um just
30:29recently too so um we're we're it's
30:32really hot Delaware we passed uh for the
30:35Senate uh uh 11 to 10 uh last year and
30:39it's sitting on the table and we're
30:41trying to get it to the house that's
30:42going to be a little bit problematic um
30:45in in in the sense that it's just a
30:47different different state it's um a
30:50police officer is the S uh is the house
30:53president and he's running the the votes
30:55in and out of there so it's a dynamic
30:58but we're working on it I think we got a
31:00check um Oregon this year um put a u was
31:06it Washington Washington State um
31:10Governor Insley put a Mor torum on the
31:12death penalty in the state of of U
31:15Washington so and they have a uh
31:19moratorium on on it pretty much in
31:21Oregon as well and you know different
31:23states all across the country I think uh
31:26Kentucky we just sent Sabrina Butler
31:28down there she's doing a legislative
31:30work all through uh the you know the
31:34state of Kentucky and right at the
31:35legislator got a standing ovation
31:37yesterday um she's one of the only women
31:40who have been exonerated and um death
31:43row Sabrina Butler for uh ill CH and um
31:48she's number one she's the first of
31:49woman who and the only and the only one
31:52so far so and you
31:55know there's appeal Bill repeal bills in
31:59Kansas and everything but places like
32:02Kansas are trying to speed the speed up
32:04the process they just pass the bill to
32:07make your appeals that take less time so
32:09they can put you away put you to death
32:12um and these kind of things we're also
32:14in opposition to so we have to fight in
32:16on multiple fronts and to stop different
32:19legislative ODS yes any work in Texas or
32:23oh it's always work in Texas we'll
32:24rather be working in Texas for the rest
32:26of our lives
32:27it's um that's another place you know
32:30and they um they're constantly they just
32:33ignore and it's and it's really ironic
32:35that most of the states that have the
32:38most exonerations like Florida for
32:40instance um and Texas are the ones that
32:42oppose any type of repeal effort I mean
32:45you know that's collateral damage they
32:47say basically to you know the public and
32:51uh well you know we're not going to have
32:52it you know we need to get to to
32:55Governors like Rick Barry and those kind
32:57cat out of there yes um in states that
33:00do have the death penalty what factors
33:02decide whether somebody gets the death
33:04penalty or sentence well it depends on
33:08the the
33:10the the court within the state um most
33:15um most jurisdictions have bated trials
33:18so you have the the Innocence phase they
33:21call it and then a death phase so you
33:23have to go through all these uh if you
33:26get convicted and sentence you get
33:28convicted in the trial and then they
33:30have a sentencing phase it's a whole
33:32separate other um trial process to that
33:37um and then they say whether or not you
33:40know you get to death penalty and it's
33:41counted by mitigators and aggravating
33:44circumstance obviously the aggravators
33:46if have more than the mitigators you get
33:49to death penal most of the time and the
33:52other point is is defin qualify jurries
33:55you know people who uh you know it's a
33:58whole big herang about you know asking a
34:01person well if would you give the person
34:03a death sentence if they get life
34:05without BR all these different little
34:07factors
34:08involved but um the big problem in
34:12United States is lethal injection
34:15regulations that's one of the big hot
34:17beds right now they're trying to get the
34:19drugs they can't get them from Europe to
34:22do it because Europeans they just don't
34:24want us to kill people so they're trying
34:26not gu us now the companies are the
34:29Texas I think it was Texas guys you
34:31passed the law not or Kentucky it was
34:33one of them that said they didn't have
34:35to tell anybody where you were getting
34:36drugs from
34:38Missouri Alabama it's just
34:42uh and then you got places like Kansas
34:44and everybody's running short of these
34:47drugs so because you can't use them
34:49after a certain date they don't store
34:51well and all this stuff and uh so the
34:53companies are not giving it to them
34:56that's a big deal um and you know to me
35:01it doesn't matter the mode of execution
35:04it it shouldn't take place to start with
35:06and and we just have to come to that
35:09conclusion and uh as long as we have the
35:11court we have the screen Court we have
35:13now where you have a Justice that says
35:16and this is a quote from him that um
35:20factual innocence is no reason to stop a
35:23death sentence properly rendered so if
35:25you're innocent if you make vict you
35:27fairly it's okay we can kill
35:30you uh
35:35anony Yes sounds like life in prison is
35:38actually worse because people are
35:39killing themselves I would agree with
35:40that assessment life is probably a
35:43better punishment and I know there's a
35:45big argument and some of you guys are
35:47going to jump on me but you know I'm
35:49about I'm about winning too I'm kind of
35:51using the ball against their against
35:53their uh against their hard ball so we
35:56get we can work on that as we go along
35:59and uh mass incarceration you were
36:01talking about I brought mass
36:03incarceration up we have a prison
36:05population 2.3 million in the United
36:07States oh my God and it's growing
36:10exponentially every year privatized
36:13prison somebody's got to put a hold to
36:15that are we really going to have uh a
36:17new slave trade within the United States
36:20and so we uh we we you know we have
36:24multiple fronts on this thing but the
36:26death baly is a b policy and we can't
36:28have I take one more question and I'll
36:31give it to Kathy it's I'm sorry it's not
36:34really a question I I I just wanted you
36:37know to thank everybody for having us
36:38here today and to visit our website it's
36:42it's new it's very interactive it's
36:44beautiful and like it's on Facebook yeah
36:46and I will see that to him because he
36:49did have the last question with witness
36:51to innocence. org yes sir witness
36:54witness to innocence. org send us some
36:57money too we
36:58need the uh the Pennsylvan Pennsylvania
37:01legislature was supposed to meet in
37:03December of last year yes yeah they're
37:06studying the death pen here in the St of
37:09Pennsylvania and they're also Seth
37:12Williams is one of the study ear so they
37:15have to do a cost analysis I think it's
37:17holding them up so um but it's coming
37:20you know we might have to drag and kick
37:23people through to this new world but uh
37:26sometimes you know it's like my mom
37:28always said you know you don't believe
37:30it today but it's really good for you so
37:32I think that's uh that's the best way we
37:35have to do with the public you know we
37:36have to just keep pumping and keep doing
37:38it and uh light that candle thank you
37:40very
37:41much

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