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KINGSLEY OKONKWO _ Episode — Transcript

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0:00I didn't know I was going to be a
0:00preacher as a young guy. I was still
0:02among the leaders of the bad young guys.
0:04So carrying a pistol,
0:05>> carrying a pistol.
0:06>> Oh yes. Personizing drug dealing, drug
0:10smoking. My passion then and my dream
0:12then was to be in organized crime. You
0:14know
0:14>> that was the dream.
0:15>> Oh yes.
0:16>> God, what an interview. We tried to fix
0:19it with pastor Kinsley for about 3
0:21years. It was worth waiting for. We talk
0:24about the things that are recent. We
0:25talk about you know the 700,000 naira
0:28dating site. They were saying, "Oh,
0:29pastor is charging 700,000 for
0:31matchmaking." First of all, the site is
0:33not about matchmaking. It's first of all
0:35about mentoring. It's like a school.
0:36>> He tells me why he does not believe in
0:39dating and thinks that dating is a thing
0:42that men use to cheat and deceive women.
0:46>> Dating has no commitment, no
0:48destination, no clarity. Most men enjoy
0:51this phase because a lot of them are
0:52getting all the benefits. It's the women
0:55that are suffering in silence. The men
0:56always fight me and say, "Leave us. I
0:58was like let's be dating them. But the
0:59women know, I know that you're going to
1:01run out of time.
1:02>> We talk about the tattoo. He explains in
1:04detail why it was part of his ministry
1:08not just to put on that tattoo in a
1:10conservative, hypocritical, religious
1:12country, but to talk about the
1:14scriptural basis.
1:15>> A few months after my tattoo thing,
1:16World Cup came and everybody was
1:18supporting Luna Messi [laughter] that
1:20has full tattoo. One woman that came to
1:23insult me, I checked her page. She was a
1:25big supporter of that video that has
1:26tattoos. But you you insult me. There's
1:29not one scripture
1:30>> Yeah.
1:31>> that tattoo is the same.
1:32>> He tells me he has never [music] said
1:34that men were created to be providers.
1:36>> I've never said the man is the provider.
1:38I've said the man is the leader.
1:39>> Yes.
1:39>> We've short changed men for years
1:41telling them they are providers. That's
1:43not their role. First of all, it's not a
1:44biblical stand.
1:45>> Right? So the idea that a man is a
1:47provider is not a Bible at all. We talk
1:50about that time when the musician Simei
1:53attacked him and said he was putting an
1:55unfair burden on women.
1:57>> That particular incident is part of how
1:58I became popular on Instagram. So
2:01>> that's why I don't mind dragging. People
2:02think when they say, "Oh, pastor, sorry
2:04they're dragging you. Are you?" I SAID,
2:04"LOOK, LET THEM DRAG."
2:06>> This has helped me all my life. So it's
2:08okay.
2:08>> So the Cing incident actually led to the
2:10explosion on Instagram.
2:11>> Wherever she's watching this, thank you
2:13and please come again and say something.
2:16>> He shares a number of testimonies with
2:18me. the time when his wife was told that
2:21she would never give birth.
2:22>> When I met her, she told me doctors had
2:23told me out. I said, "No,
2:25>> because doctors had told her that she
2:26couldn't confir
2:29in the land. You will have children." In
2:31fact, I told her I said, "Let's name our
2:32kids." So, we even named our kids and
2:34the order wanted them before we started
2:36the relationship. [laughter]
2:38That was how confident I was. And I even
2:39told her the first year we'll use family
2:40planning [laughter]
2:42to further anoint the devil. We talk
2:44about how many of the things that people
2:46consider controversial are things he's
2:49doing to help especially women and men
2:52who have gone through shi you know I I
2:55was a popular marriage coach even before
2:58I got married
2:59>> right
2:59>> but after I've gotten married oh it's a
3:02different ball game [laughter]
3:05when I talk to my people we relate
3:06>> yes the pastor of the David's Christian
3:10center senior pastor the founder of
3:13love, dating and marriage and one of the
3:15most powerful relationships coaches that
3:19Africa has ever seen. Kings Leonor
3:24unraveled
3:27on fire with Chudday today.
3:40[laughter]
3:43>> [music]
3:47>> Come for me.
3:53[laughter]
3:58>> Thank you for joining me. I have been
4:00trying to make this happen
4:02>> for the past 3 to four years.
4:05>> Then one day I entered into the plane
4:06[laughter]
4:08and in the front of the business class
4:09section there was you and your wife. I
4:11thought that God had done it. So I said
4:12to you, you don't know if you remember
4:13at Lagos airport
4:14>> that we're going to do it this year. It
4:16has taken me another 3 years since that
4:17meeting for this to happen. But I'm glad
4:21finally
4:21>> that I'm here. I'm happy to be here.
4:23[laughter]
4:23>> Thank you. Thank you. You had a Well,
4:26>> it's difficult for me to say you've had
4:27a very busy year because every year for
4:29you
4:29>> Yes. [laughter]
4:30>> I was still promising my wife today that
4:32next year will not be this busy.
4:34>> Yes. But this has been and you're busy
4:36across multiple continents,
4:39>> multiple countries.
4:40>> If I check something's happening in
4:42Canada, it's happening here, something
4:43is happening in the UK.
4:44>> Literally, I'm literally in a different
4:45city almost every weekend
4:46>> constantly of the year.
4:48>> Yes.
4:49>> Did you know because you know I mean I'm
4:51as I showed you, you are one of my
4:53teachers when it comes to relationships,
4:56love, especially in the spirit.
4:58>> Yes.
4:58>> So I know a bit about your story.
5:01>> Yes. But did you know that your ministry
5:06was going to be this busy across the
5:10world when you started?
5:12>> I would say yes and no. Um, generally
5:14when God gives you a vision, you just
5:16have an rough idea, [clears throat] you
5:17know, but it's kind of different when
5:19you are right in the middle of it. So I
5:22knew we're going to travel around the
5:23world, but did not think
5:25>> it'll be this busy that Yes. that I'll
5:28literally be in a different city,
5:29sometimes a different continent every
5:31week.
5:32>> Yes. There's a story you told
5:33interviewer a few years ago, many years
5:35ago.
5:35>> I remembering it when you were talking
5:37about the first time you got into, you
5:40know, speaking publicly about teaching
5:42about relationships
5:43>> and you were saying that u you're going
5:46to do a flyer.
5:47>> Yes.
5:47>> And you were going to put sex on the
5:49flyer
5:50>> and you paused
5:51>> and said and called your mentors in the
5:54spirit and and they said, "Look,
5:56>> the traditional people
5:57>> Yeah. will not like it.
5:58>> We not like it. But the young people
5:59you've been sent to
6:01>> Yes.
6:01>> their lives will be changed. And this
6:03was very early in your ministry was a
6:04very
6:05>> 99.
6:06>> Yes. Which is around the time you just
6:07started. And so the other day I saw you
6:10know social media is where it is. I saw
6:11them dragging you.
6:12>> Yes.
6:13>> And I said you don't even know that
6:14Pastor Kinsley
6:16>> has withstanding forces for the past 20
6:19years. Would you have wished that the
6:24ministry that you were given to focus on
6:26>> was not one that was right in the center
6:28of the culture world. Would you have
6:30wished?
6:30>> No, I don't think so. Um, I've always
6:33been a different person. So, I know I'm
6:36not the average pastor.
6:38>> So, and somebody has to do this job.
6:40Somebody has to be this, you know. So, I
6:43think we have a a lot of um regular
6:46pastors. So, we need more people on this
6:48side.
6:48>> Yes. You know, somebody still asked me
6:50some days ago that, oh, when these
6:51things happen, does it push you to want
6:52to do more? I said, I'm not really
6:54trying to react.
6:55>> I'm trying to be me and do me.
6:58>> In the course of that, somebody will get
7:00upset,
7:01>> but I'm not motivated or demotivated
7:03>> by that
7:04>> by that reaction. No, I'm just trying to
7:05do what I sense needs to be done. You
7:08know, just like you mentioned the
7:10program on sex, love sex. M
7:12>> it wasn't common at the time. But
7:14>> that first program that you're referring
7:16to is what gave birth
7:18>> to this global thing.
7:20>> So I'm not trying to do it for somebody.
7:22I'm just trying to do what God what I
7:23sense God wants me to do and nobody
7:25knows how far.
7:26>> Yeah.
7:26>> You know,
7:26>> they say he turned 50.
7:28>> Yes.
7:28>> Yes. It was a big celebration.
7:31>> I mean, there's a lot of things that
7:32happened,
7:33>> but there's something I want to talk
7:34about. There was at some point in
7:36responding to some of the criticism that
7:39you had,
7:40>> you said something about juniors in the
7:43ministry.
7:43>> Yes.
7:44>> And I thought to a message of yours
7:47yours that I had listened to
7:49>> where you were talking about how your
7:51wife forced you into social media.
7:54>> Yes.
7:54>> That she kept telling you, "Let us go.
7:56You are like never."
7:57>> And she had to now go by herself, I
8:00think, and open your pages for you. Do
8:03you think you know and you were using it
8:04to teach about how if you marry a good
8:06wife
8:06>> yes
8:07>> she will know what you should do even
8:09when you are trying to think about it
8:12>> and I thought to that when that was
8:13happening my thinking was it is because
8:15you didn't start making noise [laughter]
8:18>> as until late that people didn't know
8:20that your ministry had deep roots
8:23>> yes
8:24>> and have been touching millions of lives
8:27>> before you embraced social media
8:30>> did that occur to you when that whole
8:32thing was happening. You were saying
8:33that video and you got a lot of backlash
8:36for that response.
8:37>> Do you think that you would change that
8:39response now?
8:40>> Beautiful question. Um what happens on
8:43social media and I wish more people can
8:45notice that you can't depend on blogs
8:48especially those these funny ones for
8:50information.
8:50>> Those guys are not in the business of
8:52news. They're in the business of views.
8:55[clears throat]
8:55>> Okay. So
8:56>> they will coin anything, cut anything.
8:58What I was saying is what I was saying
8:59then was that there is hierarchy in
9:01everything. And sometimes just like as
9:03you seated here now if somebody if a
9:05staff comes here and starts working here
9:06for one week
9:07>> there scope to what you are doing that
9:09he can never know
9:11>> so he can't just come and say oh why
9:12sitting this way
9:13>> he's not in that capacity so that's what
9:15I was trying you know it was a train of
9:16thought it wasn't they just picked out
9:18one thing so for instance um I have
9:21mentors that probably have branches
9:23let's use redeem for instance they have
9:25branches everywhere in the world
9:27>> I just run two centers of my church
9:29>> there's a if can I advise is somebody
9:32running branches all over the world
9:33about how they should run their
9:34branches. I might but there should be
9:36still some regard that yes there's a
9:39there's what he's seeing
9:41>> up there if if all of us that have grown
9:43all of us thought our parents were were
9:45obsolete what did you know why do you
9:47have to put off the light when you grow
9:49up
9:49>> to their stage
9:51>> a lot of things they were doing
9:52>> you will understand
9:53>> so that that was all I was trying to say
9:55>> some people were trying to say oh you
9:57can't do I said but you you're not in my
9:59shoes
10:00>> that if you are junior to me for
10:02instance there are things I'm doing now
10:03that you can never guess give it some
10:05time or at least give me the benefit
10:08>> of the doubt that hey if this guy has
10:09this track record
10:10>> let's watch let's not be too quick or
10:12his so that was what that but they cut
10:14it to look like I was saying people
10:15junior people can't correct me that
10:16doesn't even make
10:17>> any sense
10:18>> any sense
10:18>> yeah [laughter] is it difficult to be a
10:21pastor these days you know because you
10:24know I used to joke that sometimes um
10:26daddy go would say I'm talking to my
10:29children
10:29>> yes [laughter]
10:32>> if you don't want it hold it Yes.
10:34>> Because one, you have to speak
10:36>> because you're trying to church the
10:38unchurched.
10:39>> Yes.
10:40>> But sometimes the context can only be
10:43understood from people who have been
10:45discipled over time.
10:47>> That's true.
10:48>> What do you do? Do you just do what you
10:50have to do and keep it moving? Is there
10:52a way to do it? It must be so difficult.
10:56>> Not not even difficult because you know
10:57your ministry like you said, but I miss
10:59the old days when you go to church, you
11:01listen to your pastor.
11:02>> [laughter]
11:03>> It's just simple and straightforward.
11:04>> Yes. Even if you are focused on your
11:06mission
11:06>> Yes.
11:07>> and you are not moved by that. Is this a
11:08difficult time
11:10>> to just be a visible teacher of others?
11:14>> Yes, definitely it is. Um it is. And
11:16what a lot of people have, you know,
11:18decided to do is not to say the truth.
11:21>> That's what some people that that are
11:23afraid of being dragged.
11:24>> Yes.
11:25>> And afraid of, you know, being
11:26criticized, what they do, and I've seen
11:28a lot of people do that. They just stay
11:30in the middle of the road. Yeah,
11:32>> they don't want to offend anybody. But
11:33you see, you can't make change.
11:35>> If you don't want to offend people, it's
11:36not going to happen.
11:38>> So, we live at a time when people want
11:40to hate pastors. So, they don't even
11:42care what the story is. If it's a
11:44pastor, I hate this guy.
11:45>> Some people hate the truth.
11:48>> So, it's not about you as a person is
11:50that I don't want to confront
11:52>> this
11:52>> this truth. Then some people hate me
11:55personally. That happens. I just don't
11:57like this guy. I don't like children.
11:59>> So, I don't care what it is he's doing.
12:01Even if it's a good thing, I hate him.
12:02So you're going to deal with those
12:04things. And Jesus said something. He
12:06said, "No servant is greater than his
12:07master."
12:08>> He said, "If they hated me,
12:09>> they will also hate you." Yes.
12:11>> So it is pride to think, you know, I'm
12:14going to be loved by everybody. No. If
12:15if I mean, none of us are as perfect as
12:17Jesus. And he had haters. He still has
12:21>> active committed haters [laughter]
12:23today. So if you look at that, Jesus was
12:26a nice guy. Didn't harm anybody. Didn't
12:28speak negative. Didn't make any
12:29mistakes. no error and people hated him
12:31with this passion. Who am I? I've made
12:33so many mistakes. I've I've maybe quoted
12:35things wrongly or you know so so you
12:38know. So when you come to terms
12:40>> with that you realize that it's part of
12:41the price you have to pay for being a
12:43leader. It's not even just a religious
12:45leader.
12:45>> Those in politics I mean I just laugh
12:48when people tell me you know young
12:49people are very into oh we are dragging.
12:51I said look
12:52>> there's no leader of worth
12:54>> that won't be in the news and won't have
12:57divided opinions about them. It comes
12:59with the type. So those things don't bug
13:01me. I didn't grow up in a social media
13:03generation. I've been popular before
13:05social media, you know. So I'm not drag
13:07or no drag. How is it's it's what I pay
13:09attention to that affects me.
13:11>> You even even if you're not being
13:12dragged, there are people somewhere
13:13speaking negatively about you right now.
13:15>> But you're not bothered about it because
13:16you don't even know.
13:17>> You don't even know.
13:18>> So you know,
13:19>> you didn't know you were going to be a
13:20pastor. The story is that when you were
13:22younger,
13:23>> you were so stubborn.
13:24>> Oh, I was a bad guy. [laughter]
13:26>> I was a very bad guy.
13:28>> Yes. But interestingly, it was apparent
13:29from when I was young that I was going
13:31to be in leadership. I've always been in
13:33leadership,
13:33>> right?
13:34>> Both in the negative side and the
13:35positive side. So, you know, so um yeah,
13:38I didn't know I was going to be a
13:39preacher as a young guy, I was still
13:41among the leaders of the bad young guys.
13:43So, from my early teens, smoking weed,
13:48carrying a pistol,
13:49>> um
13:50>> carrying a pistol.
13:51>> Oh, yes.
13:51>> As a young as a teenager.
13:53>> Yes. Young teenager. Young teenager. We
13:54had a pistol. Beautiful silver pistol,
13:57[laughter]
13:58automatic pistol. Beautiful. And you
14:01know, um, personizing, weed smoking,
14:04pistol carrying, drug dealing, drug
14:07smoking. So, we're into everything, you
14:09know, you could think about,
14:11>> you know, um, my passion then and my
14:14dream then was to be in organized crime.
14:16You know,
14:17>> that was the dream.
14:18>> Oh, yes.
14:18>> As a young person to be organized.
14:20>> I've always been a vision-driven person,
14:21a passion-driven person. So the moment I
14:25got saved as well,
14:27>> I also got called into that. So
14:29everything I also do,
14:30>> it's passion driven, vision driven. So
14:33yeah.
14:33>> Yes. Why did you want to be an organized
14:35crime?
14:35>> I just hate the ordinary. Me and the
14:38ordinary have never been, you know, we
14:40never could work together. You know, I
14:42could never be the 9 to5 person that
14:44does the same thing every day, every
14:45week. So I I always went for adventure,
14:48went for something special. So but I I
14:50don't even know why. I think there was
14:52just that just like the way most young
14:54people were. The difference was that I
14:56wanted to go far with I hate doing
14:58things
14:59>> ordinary go through crime. It might as
15:00well be organized.
15:01>> Yes. [laughter]
15:03>> Go with it full time. Give it your best
15:05shot. Put strategy into it. So I've
15:07always been that kind of person.
15:08>> Your parents sent you to your elder
15:10brother.
15:11>> Eldest brother. He's a retired major
15:12general.
15:13>> But then he was a major colonel or
15:15something. Major I think so. So yes. So
15:17they sent me to him. Maybe he could tame
15:19me. But he was seriously born again. So
15:22uh he and his other officers were
15:24constantly praying for me before I even
15:25came. So they all knew me
15:27>> and knew about me.
15:28>> That you were the problem child.
15:29>> That was the problem child. So before I
15:30landed where he was in stationed in
15:32Makodi, they had prayed for me for
15:34months.
15:35>> So by the time I came, you know, things
15:37just started happening. They started
15:39taking him to church. Before I knew it,
15:40I got saved. When I knew they all knew
15:42me was that they started sharing the
15:44testimony that oh that kingsley we've
15:45been praying about, he's now saved. And
15:46they were all coming to congratulate me
15:48and she kind of wondering what's going
15:49on. I didn't know I was that popular
15:51amongst them but they had been praying
15:52for me.
15:53>> Your salvation required combined
15:54>> combined among [laughter]
15:56>> right. And then your elder brother was
15:59already a preacher of some sort at the
16:01time. Yes. Kind of.
16:02>> Yes. So how did it now evolve into
16:04ministry?
16:05>> Oh yes. Uh from when I got saved
16:07interestingly I knew
16:09>> at that same time that I was going to do
16:10ministry. I didn't even know what that
16:12entailed
16:12>> but I just knew in my spirit that this
16:14is what you're going to be doing with
16:15your life. I didn't bother to focus. I
16:18went to Bible school year under Bishop
16:20David. Then it was a one year full time.
16:23>> So I did started serving the ministry I
16:26was in then
16:27>> before God now led me to start something
16:29by myself. So I just knew like I knew my
16:31name that this is what God has called
16:32you. And later God began to give more
16:34specifics,
16:35>> you know, into oh this is how it would
16:36be. This is what it should do. Right.
16:38>> Yeah. And then where did David the name
16:40David's Christian Center?
16:41>> Exactly. So when God spoke to us that
16:43start a youth fellowship and we began to
16:44pray what the name I had some ideas of
16:46some cute names in my head that I would
16:48name the ministry but God now spoke to
16:50us specifically and said
16:51>> it shall be called David's Christian
16:53center and I was like I never those days
16:55it wasn't even common to have a church I
16:56had heart center
16:57>> you know maybe just day star one or two
16:59but it wasn't a common thing so I was
17:00like God David
17:01>> how does that even work David's
17:03Christian center you know so God now
17:05said as David never lost a battle
17:08>> so my work would you be
17:09>> then I was not knowledgeable able about
17:11scripture enough to even know that David
17:13never lost the battle. And that's when I
17:15began to search the scripture and I
17:16found out that whether David fought
17:17against
17:18>> an army or lion or a bear or a king
17:21>> or his own family, whoever he fought
17:23against, David always won.
17:26>> And the Bible actually says it that
17:27wherever David went, God gave him
17:29victory.
17:30>> Yeah.
17:30>> So it was later, years later, I started
17:32seeing all those things. But God gave me
17:33as a word that
17:34>> it shall be called David's Christian
17:36Center because as David never lost the
17:38battle. So, so those days, those early
17:40days, people even thought my name was
17:41David. [laughter] David,
17:44>> your name was pastor David.
17:45>> So, my son's name is David. And I hope
17:48if if he ever is called to be the pastor
17:49of the church, he will have to deal with
17:51explaining himself that I this name was
17:53before I came [laughter] to
17:55>> Yes. Yes. So, by this time, by the time
17:57you started fellowship, had you already
17:59met your wife?
18:00>> Yeah. We went to secondary school
18:01together,
18:01>> right? Yes.
18:02>> So, but we never spoke interestingly as
18:04in not once. You mentioned
18:05>> in six years. We were in boarding school
18:07together for 6 years.
18:08>> Yes.
18:09>> Never spoke once because she was born
18:11again. I was born against. [laughter]
18:14>> So she was born again from school. So
18:16good girl. Just you know I was among the
18:18bad boys again as usual from there. So
18:20our path never crossed even though we
18:21had a lot of mutual friends but our path
18:23never crossed in this those six years.
18:25>> In those six years also she was also
18:26seriously a ner.
18:28>> Yes. Yes. Yes. She was good girl.
18:31>> All of those things. Um, and so when did
18:34you now meet her? After school.
18:36>> 10 years. So
18:37>> 10 years after school.
18:38>> Yes. So God laid in my heart to organize
18:41a reunion for our set
18:44>> in after high school. 10 years after.
18:46Okay.
18:46>> So I called on a few of my friends
18:47together. We all started to do it. That
18:49was when I now met her again.
18:51>> Right.
18:52>> Cuz one of the meetings we had was on
18:53our street.
18:54>> Yeah.
18:54>> So we now met again and exchanged
18:56numbers and became friends. And
18:58>> that's how we got here. [laughter]
19:00>> And it took a while for her to say yes
19:01or
19:01>> Yes. She was actually in a relationship
19:03when we met. Yes.
19:04>> Yeah. That had lasted 5 years. They had
19:06done introduction and
19:07>> stuff like that. Yeah. So,
19:08>> but you knew that she was going to be
19:09your wife.
19:10>> No,
19:10>> you didn't know.
19:11>> No. Okay.
19:12>> I just knew she was a very intelligent
19:13person.
19:14>> Uh she was very beautiful. She was like,
19:16some of my classmates don't like when I
19:17say this, but she was the finest girl in
19:18our set. [laughter]
19:20>> I said, "There's no need to oppose me.
19:21Your wife should be the finest girl
19:22ever." Yeah. You know,
19:24>> let me say my own.
19:24>> Yes.
19:25>> But for real, she was like the finest
19:27girl in our set then, you know. So, uh
19:29but she was very smart, very
19:30intelligent, you know. Now I was born
19:32again so I could see her from a
19:33different light. So I just wanted to be
19:34her friend. I didn't know where it was
19:36going to go
19:37>> to this. Right. So at what point did it
19:39now or did you did God lay it in your
19:40heart?
19:41>> Oh the more we interacted you could tell
19:43oh this was a very very very smart girl
19:45also very spiritual. She actually knew
19:47the Lord for herself.
19:48>> She had a heart of service. So I began
19:49to see the qualities I liked. And
19:51thankfully or fortunately that time God
19:54also had also spoken to her to end
19:57>> her relationship.
19:58>> So you are not the one that's
19:59>> No. I had nothing to do with it at all.
20:01Not at all. It's not even ethical. It's
20:03not proper. So I had nothing to do with
20:04it,
20:05>> you know. So in fact when we met my
20:07usual self, I was counseling her
20:09>> about oh your relationship. Oh, do you
20:11guys love each other? You know, it was
20:13my typical way once I meet somebody.
20:14Yes.
20:15>> I'm going to talk Yes. talk about
20:16relationship marriage. So that's what
20:18happened.
20:18>> Yeah. Yeah.
20:18>> You know, so I was advising them,
20:20advising her rather.
20:21>> But God led her actually to end it, you
20:24know. Then
20:25>> Right. Right. Why is it not ethical? Can
20:27you can you explain to us if if a person
20:29for instance believes
20:31>> believes that God is telling them that
20:32this is your wife and the person is in a
20:35wrong relationship why would it be wrong
20:38for the person to just make
20:40>> yeah because you have to respect what
20:41they have
20:42>> you know um a relationship even though
20:43it's not a marriage but two people are
20:45together in this thing so even if you
20:47have an inclination or a desire you have
20:49to let them play
20:51>> it's not proper for you to go in there
20:53>> and go try to break it up it's not just
20:55decent you know what would be the
20:56romantic story that we we broke somebody
20:59up just to you know and and people don't
21:01understand that marriage is such a long
21:03distance thing. So your foundation
21:05>> is so smart about that. Yeah.
21:06>> You know you did that whole reproposal.
21:08>> Yes.
21:09>> That went viral. You know she was truly
21:11and deeply surprised.
21:12>> Surprised. Yes.
21:14>> But an interviewer asked her the
21:16reproposal. She said I know.
21:17>> Was there a proposal at first?
21:19>> Yes. [laughter]
21:21>> Because at first there was none.
21:22>> Yes. There was none. Yes. We could I
21:24couldn't even afford an engaged maring.
21:25So there was no such thing. And I wasn't
21:27a romantic guy. I grew up with four
21:30brothers. We have five boys.
21:31>> All all of us went to military school.
21:33Yes. Heard the famous story of the the
21:35meat,
21:36>> the orange in the fridge. The
21:36>> orange the fridge.
21:37>> So I I grew up with five boys, you know,
21:40and the only woman in my house. My
21:42mother is an soldier was a soldier. So
21:44literally, let's say we're all guys in
21:46the house.
21:46>> So as a man, man's man, full man's man,
21:50you know. So I didn't have all those
21:51romantic things, but I knew that most
21:53women like those kind of things.
21:55>> So 20 years after, you know, I bought
21:57her a diamond ring, now I could afford
21:59it, you know.
22:01So, and I knew it will surprise her and
22:03I just wanted to declare that because
22:04she always says it that there was no say
22:05now. So, now I put it somewhere in the
22:07story. She can't say there was no
22:08proposal,
22:09>> right? Yes. When did you realize that
22:11there was a part of the ministry that
22:13was focused on relationships and love
22:15and family?
22:16>> It was it was that um around 1998 or 99
22:20>> before then I had always just known that
22:22whenever I saw a boy and a girl
22:24together,
22:24>> there was something about
22:26>> me that just wanted to help them make
22:27sure they were following the right
22:28principles. They're not hurting each
22:29other. So I didn't know what this right
22:31principles are supposed to be
22:32>> but I just had that body
22:33>> just flowed out of you
22:34>> just so one year Valentine's Day was
22:37coming
22:38>> and I just told my guys let's do
22:39something Valentine's period cuz we're a
22:41youth fellowship so we deal with young
22:42people Valentine's Day is when most
22:44young people want to either have sex for
22:45the first time or they feel depressed
22:47that they're not in relationship so so
22:49it's a good time to do a relationship
22:50meeting so they all agreed so that's
22:52that was when the story of oh let's call
22:54it love it now sex
22:56>> and we said oh putting sex on the flyer
22:57how will it be and my mentor said yeah
22:59traditional religious church people
23:01would not like it but the young people
23:02we are trying to reach
23:03>> they'll be okay with it so we did the
23:05fly I didn't know what I was going to
23:06preach I' never thought about it before
23:07>> right
23:08>> and that day just came was our largest
23:10attendance I went on stage and it was
23:13like a tap just opened
23:15>> when I started to talk
23:16>> and till today that tap has not closed
23:18>> it has not closed
23:19>> yes so it has not closed
23:20>> ideas I still flow inspiration still
23:21flows most of the things I teach I
23:23didn't read them anywhere
23:25>> and they I I wasn't taught it was just
23:26God that showed it to me and explained
23:28it to me and taught me Yes.
23:29>> So why did you feel the need unlike
23:31other pastor? Because you know you
23:32you've spoken before and said sometimes
23:34you're a pastor doesn't mean you're a
23:35marriage counselor. Father pastor
23:37doesn't mean that you are able to help
23:38people with your emotions. Exactly.
23:40>> Because you've got because first of all
23:42when you start preaching about
23:43relationship you was already
23:44revolutionary and authoritative. You
23:46could see that this person knew what
23:48they were talking about. Why was it not
23:50important for you to still go and be
23:51certified and be a member, presidential
23:54member of this organization in in
23:57Nigeria, in the UK, in the US? Why?
24:00>> Yes, very important because and it's
24:02part of what I'm dealing with right now.
24:04>> Most people once my organization does
24:07something and maybe there's a fee
24:08attached to it, people say, "Oh,
24:10>> why will a pastor, they don't understand
24:11that a pastor can be vocational. I don't
24:13know why. It's so foreign here." You
24:15know, I have to explain it all the time.
24:17You know our our former vice president
24:18was a lawyer. He was a senior
24:20>> and a pastor at the same time
24:21>> and a pastor at the same time. That's
24:22what I was say. So and he was still vice
24:24president. So it's pastors most a lot of
24:26pastors have trainings formal training.
24:28Some of them are able to use it some are
24:30not able to. So I've I've been by
24:32vocational for a while. Um like you said
24:34yes there's natural gift and flares
24:36there. Not every pastor is able to teach
24:38on relationship. In fact, some of the
24:40most horrible advice people have told me
24:42they got was from a pastor
24:44>> because he's not in a position to he's
24:46not knowledgeable enough, you know, to
24:49give that counsel,
24:50>> you right? Pastors can give marital
24:52advice, but they're not necessarily
24:53trained or licensed as counselors.
24:57>> So, we've we I've been vocational for a
24:59while because we saw this need in the
25:00body of Christ that
25:02>> people were not getting professional
25:04help.
25:05>> All right? They were just getting the
25:07basic what I know from the Bible and
25:09sometimes it's just random stuff. In
25:11fact, I still all kinds of things. I
25:13still watch a video some days ago where
25:14a woman was in a church saying her
25:16husband was sleeping with her daughter
25:19>> and she was in church and they asked one
25:20of the church leaders to speak and the
25:22woman was saying she should not take the
25:23child out of the house that if she take
25:26the house she doesn't know what's going
25:27to happen if there will be diff you
25:28know. Yes. That's the advice people give
25:30people in church.
25:31>> Yes. So we saw this need and we said
25:34look we need to get professionals
25:36>> to support the body of Christ because
25:39>> just basic circular counselors do not
25:41factor in our faith
25:43>> and Christ. So I've had people that for
25:45instance young man has erectile
25:47dysfunction you know he's married has
25:50erectile dysfunction and they will go
25:51meet a secular counselor and the guy
25:53will say try other women.
25:55>> Now for a Christian we don't do that.
25:56>> I've had another couple that their sex
25:58life was going down. They went to a
25:59sexologist that is not Christian. M
26:01>> the person said they should introduce
26:02BDSL.
26:04>> Yes. So we knew that the body of Christ
26:06needed professional help but Christ
26:08centered. So we set up another
26:10organization called Love It Now
26:11Marriage. So see it's not a church.
26:13>> It's a proper organization that has
26:14licensed and internationally trained
26:17counselors that are full-time
26:18counselors. This what they do for a
26:20living.
26:20>> Living. So this is beyond you. It's not
26:22that LDM is a vehicle for you. It's a
26:25vehicle for other counselors. and is
26:27registered in the US, registered in
26:29Canada, registered in the UK, registered
26:31in different parts of the world. So it
26:32has nothing to do with me being a
26:34pastor. It's a professional thing. Next
26:36year I will start my masters and I'm
26:38trying to do dual degree, masters and
26:40PhD in psychology. So I'm a trained
26:43>> to all the ones you've done already.
26:44>> Yes. [laughter]
26:45Because to run what I want to run, the
26:48plan is to have a marriage university
26:49>> and to also, you know, have trained
26:51counselors that are Christian
26:53>> that can give the church
26:55>> the kind of support so that the pastor,
26:57it's not everything a pastor should and
26:59can
27:00>> be trying to solve. The pastor's job is
27:02already defined.
27:03>> He should stay in the confines of
27:05scripture and prayer and things like
27:07that. But a pastor shouldn't be telling,
27:08"Oh, I'm not having good sex with my
27:09wife." Then the pastor is asking you,
27:10"Where are you putting your hand?"
27:12That's not a pastor. That's not what you
27:13want to hear your daddy go tell you.
27:14>> [laughter]
27:15>> So we are we are training a large number
27:17of people. Some most of them are
27:19fulltime.
27:20>> This is what they do for a what they
27:21used to raise their family. So whenever
27:22these people come to the website and
27:24they see a fee they say why is he
27:26charging as a pastor? What are you
27:27talking about?
27:27>> Yes. That's that's the the current
27:28controversy.
27:29>> Yes.
27:30>> That you you you [laughter] launch a
27:31platform mentor to marry.
27:32>> Mentor to marry. Yes.
27:33>> And then it's a professional platform
27:36about a church.
27:37>> You post the thing about it. People say
27:38you are charging people for access to
27:40yourself. It was very weird and and
27:42chess people that try to of course I
27:44told these blogs are interviews not
27:45news.
27:46>> They were saying oh pastor is charging
27:47700,000 for matchmaking.
27:49>> First of all the site is not about
27:50matchmaking. It's first of all about
27:52mentoring. It's like a school.
27:54>> So I started helping people
27:56>> to connect with other people. So what
27:59happened was that everywhere I went like
28:00I told you I'm literally in a different
28:02city every week. That is week after week
28:05I'm in a different when I say I'm in a
28:07different every week is not
28:08>> it's not theory [laughter] is this is
28:10what is happening happening yes I know
28:11that
28:12>> so and but everywhere we go one thing
28:14that we notice everywhere is that people
28:15are saying pastor
28:16>> help our single ladies there are many
28:18single ladies that are in church
28:20>> faithful loving the lord but can't find
28:21husbands
28:22>> there also single men we run across 40s
28:2450s and saying hey we can't find good
28:26wives
28:26>> so and everywhere the same problem so I
28:29said hey is there a way we can help
28:30these people let have let's have a
28:32platform where we learn first And then
28:34just like in a class
28:35>> you can meet other students that are
28:37learning what you're learning and if
28:38something comes up. So but when we
28:40started on the basic level found out
28:42some people's issues not even finding
28:43somebody
28:44>> or matching them with somebody. Some
28:45people are not even matchable. Their
28:47mindsets are are wrong.
28:49>> What they think marriages is wrong. So
28:51even if you bring a good husband they
28:52cannot tell because of the criteria they
28:55have they thinking know if I don't have
28:56the kind of wedding so and so that makes
28:58this guy not religious. So we have to
29:00first correct. That's what started the
29:02platform. is more first for mentoring,
29:04>> right?
29:04>> And then um at the basic level, I think
29:07it's 70,000 naira, which is about 40,000
29:09$40
29:10>> uh per person. Again, it's not a
29:11Nigerian platform, even though it covers
29:13Nigeria, but we're registered everywhere
29:14else.
29:15>> So roughly $40 a month naira, that's
29:185,000 a month.
29:20>> That's and the 700 one is not the
29:23general one. It's for VIP. And the
29:25reason is that we discover some people
29:27will need extra handholding,
29:30>> right?
29:30>> So that 700k is for a year. Break it
29:32down to 12 months. It is 58,000 a month
29:36>> for a month. There is no therapist or
29:38counselor that is good at their job that
29:41will take 58,000 a month. No. In fact, a
29:43session,
29:44>> they will not take 58,000 naira a
29:46session.
29:46>> Yes,
29:47>> that's what we're trying to offer for a
29:48month.
29:49>> In fact, after we looked at the figures
29:51with all the RA, we now said it's not
29:52even sustainable [laughter]
29:54>> because who councelor am I going to tell
29:55to come and spend one month with
29:56somebody and give him 58,000? It's not
29:58even going to work. Yeah.
30:00>> So we are bocational and it's a proper
30:02organization separate from a church. If
30:04you go to my church today, if you even
30:06need somebody to just hug you, it's
30:07free.
30:08>> There there's something for everybody.
30:09>> So those that are worried, they can go
30:11to the church and see there's
30:13counseling. There is whatever. This is
30:15not the church. This is your personal
30:18vocation. I think people struggle with
30:20that because people struggled with papa
30:24and dominion you know tomorrow they be
30:26like oh he's doing a school the members
30:28cannot attend the school of course the
30:30logic is that if all the members attend
30:32the school the school cannot contain
30:33everybody but nobody's talking about
30:35that there is
30:36>> besides you even have overhead
30:38>> you're running a school there's
30:38generators there are professors you are
30:40paying
30:41>> yes
30:41>> so just like our platform
30:43>> some of the coaches that are going to
30:45speak there are Americans they're not
30:46even Nigerians at all they All paid in
30:48dollars.
30:49>> Dollars. Yes.
30:49>> So, how does how free? Where does the
30:51free even appear?
30:52>> Yeah. Yeah.
30:53>> Even the ones that want to do it free
30:54are saying, "Okay, you cover our video
30:57um crew.
30:58>> You have to pay them." So, there's
30:59nothing free about the platform. So, I
31:01wonder how people are thinking
31:02>> that it even the first person that
31:04wanted to build it for us was charging
31:0610 million naira,
31:07>> right,
31:07>> to build the platform because it's a
31:09it's it's essentially a commercial
31:11platform.
31:11>> The same. Yes. The same way everything
31:15needs overhead
31:16>> that's how a ministry also does. So the
31:18difference is that we were trying to
31:19help
31:20>> and serve the body.
31:21>> Yeah.
31:22>> That's just the difference. But it
31:23doesn't mean that oh suddenly our
31:25internet is going to be free.
31:26>> Yeah.
31:26>> Or our laptops for the staff are going
31:28to be free or salaries
31:31>> you know.
31:31>> I think the question and I want to give
31:33you a difficult a bit a bit of a more
31:35difficult question. The question is that
31:36even if it's not overhead
31:37>> Mhm.
31:38>> if it's a private organization that
31:41means that it's for profit, isn't it?
31:43>> Yeah. In this case, I won't say profit
31:46is the not the driving force.
31:48>> Okay.
31:48>> If I wanted to do something for profit,
31:50this is going to be a very cumbersome
31:53>> and tiring like I mentioned. I don't
31:55know if anybody has done you see the
31:57whole thing was even more an assault and
31:59insult to the whole profession
32:01>> of therapy and counseling counseling and
32:03all that because and in Nigeria we don't
32:04value those kind of careers that's why
32:06everybody that is in those careers are
32:08moving out of the country
32:09>> because they don't value them
32:11>> here in the developed world nobody can
32:14suggest that therapy should be free they
32:16can't even suggest it because it's a
32:17noble
32:18>> profession you can't even suggest it
32:20>> yeah so mentor to marry specifically is
32:23an intervention want to help people.
32:26>> That's the idea
32:26>> that has been priced at the lowest
32:28possible. There's a guy that entered my
32:30DM. In fact, he made a comment then we
32:32enter DM to talk. He too said he runs a
32:33dating site. By the time we're done
32:34discussing his own was more well, he
32:37came to criticize me. By the time we
32:38calculated the figures, his own was even
32:40more expensive and his own is just a
32:41basic dating site which that's not what
32:43we are doing.
32:44>> Mentoring is like building the person
32:46character.
32:47>> Exactly. Then it still has the features
32:49that oh you can meet somebody. So, but
32:52people that are doing basic dating site
32:53are even more expensive and all they are
32:55doing is that you just swipe left or
32:56right.
32:57>> That's not what we are even so now that
33:00we've looked at the figures.
33:00>> Yes. Like we even revised things.
33:02>> Yes. We're saying it's not even
33:03sustainable to be honest.
33:04>> Who therapist am I going to get to sit
33:06down with somebody for a month for
33:0858,000? Yeah.
33:09>> It's not even
33:10>> Why do you think he got that response
33:11though?
33:12>> Uh because like I said, what happens in
33:14this part of the world is that there are
33:15things we don't value. For instance, we
33:16don't value time.
33:17>> Yes. So somebody can sit in traffic for
33:184 hours and nobody's bothered. In a
33:20developed country, they understand that
33:224 hours represents value and represents
33:24money. But in Africa, if you cancel
33:25somebody for 4 hours, they think, "What
33:27have you done? You've not done anything
33:28for me." But there's no nowhere else in
33:31the world where you would take even if
33:33you call a plumber.
33:34>> Yes.
33:34>> Abroad his transport time
33:37>> to you and back. You're going to be
33:39build
33:40>> that. Yes. Because he he could have been
33:41doing something else,
33:42>> right?
33:43>> So one thing we don't value time. Second
33:44thing we don't value intangibles here.
33:46>> M M
33:47>> so if I was selling the land there's
33:48nobody that would tell me you're a
33:50pastor sell the land for free. If I was
33:53baking bread and selling bread nobody
33:54would come to the bakery
33:56>> and say give me bread for free.
33:58>> But because what we are doing is
34:02>> emotions it's expertise service.
34:05>> Oh everybody believes it has to be free.
34:07No it doesn't have to be free. It can't
34:09even be free.
34:10>> Yeah
34:10>> because again there's a large team of
34:12people. This is what they do profession.
34:14You see when it comes things like
34:15counseling by time your counselor has
34:16three or four jobs and then he wants to
34:18sit down and counsel you he's not even
34:19the frame of mind
34:21>> he just went to supply diesel then
34:23rushes in to do a session with you you
34:24think he's going to he just he wasn't
34:25try for five five hours he's not going
34:27to be frame of mind to even listen to
34:28you what you're saying
34:29>> so I part of my passion from day one has
34:32been to make this career paths like
34:34counseling therapy family life coaching
34:36be solid enough for people to say this
34:38is what I want to do
34:40>> in terms of my career and it will be
34:42enough to pay
34:43>> for
34:44>> most therapists in Nigeria would tell
34:45you that therapy is not yet enough to
34:48pay their bills. So, they're all doing
34:49different side hustles. And I can tell
34:50you as as somebody that's done it for 20
34:52something years, any counselor or
34:54therapist that is doing many other
34:55things other than counseling is not
34:56giving you
34:58>> the best. I can tell you that for free.
34:59>> Yeah.
35:00>> Without even mincing words. So, you are
35:02still short changing yourself by saying
35:03you're doing it free.
35:04>> Yes, you are short changing yourself.
35:05But that guy is tired.
35:07>> He's stressed out. [laughter]
35:08>> Yeah. He did a post about it that went
35:10viral a few years ago about people
35:12criticizing this
35:15dreadlocks prosperity preaching
35:16prosperity preaching. He said, you know,
35:18already there's already a people are
35:21waiting for pastors and prosperity.
35:24>> People are waiting for pastors that are
35:25riding private jets.
35:27>> People are waiting for pastors that are
35:28in business class.
35:30>> People are waiting for pastors that are
35:31driving Bentley. People are already on
35:33the edge when it comes to pastors making
35:36money. They say that Jesus didn't have
35:41equivalent of a car, the equivalent of a
35:44house.
35:45>> That if he wanted to pay tax, he even
35:46had to go into the mouth of a fish. You
35:50know, whatever he had, he called the
35:51disciples. He shared it with everybody
35:52else.
35:53>> And that but we are especially in
35:55Africa.
35:57>> Yeah.
35:57>> Have a a a set of pastors, our most
36:00prominent pastors are living a very
36:02lavish life. M
36:04>> so people are already on the edge
36:07>> about that. Now I know it has been said
36:10too many times and you know I just felt
36:11to ask you what is the answer to people
36:14who might be they're not looking they're
36:15not looking for views just honestly
36:17uncomfortable with the idea of a pastor
36:21not living a fasted life you know where
36:23he's just you know he's simple he's you
36:26know they always use the example of
36:28Catholic priests in their one room
36:30whatever it is they say and that
36:33>> there's something unsimily about pastors
36:36being wealthy and visible. What do you
36:39what is the what is the answer to that?
36:43Because it's the reason why I think most
36:44people are trigger ready when it comes
36:46to a pastor because they already think
36:47that the pastors are not like Christ.
36:50Interestingly, Christ was also
36:52criticized.
36:54>> You know, that's what people don't
36:55realize.
36:55>> Yes.
36:56>> When they broke an expensive perfume
36:58>> for Christ, somebody came and said,
37:00"Which kind of waste is this?
37:01>> Why don't we sell it and give it to the
37:04poor?" And we hear those exact words
37:06today. Most people don't know who and
37:09where those Yeah. who they have
37:10inspiration and their father in the
37:12FAITH
37:12>> IS THEIR FATHER IN the faith. They don't
37:15know that those exact words were not
37:18coming from a spiritual person. We're
37:19not coming from a godly place
37:21>> was coming from a place of envy, hate
37:23and things like that. So um when it
37:26comes to modesty and things like the
37:27truth is that I relative
37:29>> what a billionaire would regard as being
37:31modest
37:33>> might not be what somebody in the
37:34village struggling would. So um I don't
37:37think we're in a position to always
37:39judge people.
37:40>> That's part of why God doesn't want us
37:41to do that because for you to be a judge
37:42you must really have the full scope of
37:43the story
37:44>> and usually we don't.
37:45>> So we are just you know hitting on
37:48somebody or hitting on something usually
37:50because maybe we don't have access to it
37:51or we have a picture in our head
37:54>> how we want something to be. And thank
37:57God no matter the picture you have in
37:58your head there's a pastor for you.
38:01>> If you like fashion there's a pastor for
38:03you.
38:04>> You can relate. If you like 100% we're
38:06not wearing anything, there's a pastor
38:08for you. It's difficult to become a
38:10judge of everything and everybody depend
38:12on most pastors. For instance, let's use
38:14something like private jet. I laugh when
38:15people talk about private jet. Is a
38:16private jet easy to maintain. You even
38:17know what it takes to it's a burden if
38:19you if you don't need it. It's a burden.
38:21Every aspect of a private jet is is
38:24crazy in cost. So the only people that
38:26can successfully use it must be doing
38:28something that can sustain it in the
38:30first place that can warrant it.
38:32>> Right.
38:32>> All right. If I look at my own schedule,
38:35>> yeah,
38:36>> how I've given you an idea of how my
38:38next couple of weeks is going to look
38:39like,
38:40>> you know, and of course, this is that
38:42we're going to spend thousands of
38:43dollars to catch all these flights. If
38:46people that are senior to me have more
38:49busier schedules than that, so if they
38:51if they actually can afford a jet or if
38:54their ministry can afford cuz those jets
38:56are not really personal. It's not like
38:58it's ministry,
38:59>> you know, then they should. It's not
39:01Jesus. People criticize Jesus. They felt
39:03he was also living large for his time
39:05that he was always too casual. He was
39:07relaxing with sinners. He was hanging
39:08out with sinners and and doing lunch and
39:10dinner with them
39:11>> with sinners, you know. In fact, he went
39:13to a wedding and actually supplied,
39:14>> you know, I mean I mean I mean that's
39:16crazy if you look at it today. They
39:18would have dragged
39:18>> Jesus
39:19>> Jesus seriously today. How can he go to
39:21a party and be supplying drink? Is that
39:24what the savior is? You know, so it's
39:26difficult to catch the scope
39:28>> of people's journey. They might even be
39:31wrong. M
39:32>> but really allow them to to grow.
39:34Everybody's on a journey of growth
39:36really.
39:36>> All of us will look at 10 years back and
39:38say, "Hey, I could have done
39:40>> something different or better." So
39:42that's everybody. So nobody makes you a
39:44police really
39:46>> or for another person
39:47>> that I'm going to know. Yeah. Well, but
39:49for sure some pastors are definitely out
39:51of order and we have that in every
39:53generation. There are people that take
39:54things too far or over flashy that
39:57always exists or people that manipulate
39:59people for money. Those things have
40:00always been there. Yes. Why do you think
40:02that your message resonates so deeply?
40:04You know, I was showing you the videos
40:06and if you notice, I just know that two
40:07of the videos have the same topic.
40:09>> Yes.
40:10>> But I watched both
40:12>> because I'm like there's wisdom here.
40:15And sometime, you know, there was there
40:16was a ministration you did. I think it
40:18was in Biosa church. You went in by for
40:21you were talking about the book. You
40:22brought out a book. So read this book.
40:24Then you start talking about the book as
40:26we're talking about writing down. Then
40:28like then like the message was about um
40:3170 minutes then like 45 minutes okay now
40:33we go into the sermon [laughter]
40:36like I've already finished the sermon
40:38and look you know what I've realized
40:40about life
40:41>> if a person is solving your problem
40:43>> you will follow the person [laughter]
40:45>> yes
40:45>> you will ignore what anybody else is
40:48saying because you have a direct
40:50experience
40:51>> so the reason why I follow you is not
40:52because I like you even though I've come
40:54to is because when I began to listen to
40:57you. I'm like, he gets it. Like this is
41:00what I am going through in my
41:03relationship. [laughter]
41:05>> Pastor Kley, help me.
41:08>> You know, why do you think that your
41:10message resonates so deeply today?
41:13>> I would say um and I get this all the
41:15time. I get this all the time.
41:17>> I would say um I keep it real.
41:19>> And interesting when people come and
41:21tell me that pastor you're so real. I'm
41:22wondering what's the alternative? Is
41:24there another way people are leaving or
41:26other people want to leave? Because real
41:28is just the way only option. So I don't
41:31just sit down and cook up theoretical
41:34things.
41:34>> I look at real life scenarios and ask
41:38for God's wisdom. What is because
41:40there's a scripture and a wisdom of God
41:42for
41:43>> everything. [clears throat]
41:44>> So whenever I see situations or get
41:46people that want counseling and give me
41:48a scenario, I'm asking God, Lord, what
41:50is your wisdom? and till tomorrow. I've
41:53never seen a situation where God does
41:54not have an opinion or a wisdom. He has.
41:58We've some of them we've not found. Some
42:00we have found but there's wisdom. And
42:01the difference now is that for people
42:03like me that this is my area. One thing
42:04that will happen to me is that every
42:05time I read the Bible,
42:07>> I'm seeing things relating to
42:09relationship. So that's how you know
42:10some people are gifted of grace in
42:12different areas. You just open the Bible
42:13and everything about faith sometimes
42:15going to jump at you if you are called
42:16to teach that a lot.
42:17>> So for me it's relationship and
42:18marriage. So
42:19>> almost any scripture can see the divine
42:22order of marriage and relationship and
42:24love in inside that scripture. So I'm I
42:27don't just sit down and cook up
42:29>> sermons. No, I don't do that.
42:31>> I'm just looking at real life. Where
42:32where is this guy? Where is this girl in
42:34their journey?
42:34>> Yeah.
42:35>> When I was in this space, what did I
42:36need? What did I go through?
42:38>> So I keep it real and just now find the
42:41wisdom of God
42:42>> inside scripture or pray and you see
42:44that God has a opinion about everything.
42:46Yes.
42:46>> Doesn't that put pressure on you? Cuz if
42:48you are possibly Africa's leading family
42:50life and relationship coach, then that
42:52means that your own must be perfect.
42:54[laughter]
42:54>> No, not at all.
42:55>> Right.
42:55>> Not at all. So on that thing I teach
42:57people, there's a difference between the
43:00gift
43:01>> to teach and the doing.
43:03>> Right.
43:04>> They are two different. They are not
43:05connected in any way or form. [laughter]
43:07>> So a person can actually be great at
43:09teaching you. At the time in America,
43:11>> yeah,
43:12>> most black big marriage coaches were
43:16either not married or divorced.
43:18>> H
43:19>> yeah,
43:20>> you're right. I used to have a coach in
43:22my business
43:23>> and then people used to criticize her
43:24because she has never run a business
43:26>> but everything she was telling me was
43:29working for my business. Yes.
43:30>> So there's a gift
43:32>> of something. So the gift of teaching
43:35maybe marriage. So that way you don't
43:36end that. That's a gift of God. now but
43:39after you teach
43:40>> you have to go back and join the
43:41audience [laughter]
43:43>> to learn from principles
43:45>> to go and do
43:46>> right
43:46>> to go and do
43:47>> yes so there's no gift of doing
43:49>> right
43:49>> there's only gift of teaching
43:50>> teaching
43:51>> so you can teach business and never do
43:54>> you can teach marriage and not even be
43:56married or be divorced
43:57>> so after you teach that's a gift don't
43:59be delusional about that gift to think
44:01you're a super pastor no you have to go
44:03down like every other person
44:05>> and do the hard work
44:07>> you know of marriage Yeah. Yeah.
44:09>> So that's the that's the big deal. So
44:11yeah. So I'm learning every day.
44:12>> You're learning every day. But does it
44:13get frustrating sometimes as a human
44:15being because you you have I love that
44:17how you separated the gift of teaching
44:18from the doing. And if we look at it, a
44:21doctor can tell you what to do with your
44:22heart and still be smoking itself.
44:24>> Yes. [laughter]
44:26>> So but does it get frustrating sometimes
44:28when you're having a conflict in your
44:30marriage or in a relationship? In your
44:32marriage. Well, not a relationship.
44:34>> And you know the principle.
44:35>> Yes.
44:36>> But you are a human being. At that day
44:38you're like
44:40[laughter]
44:41my pastor pastor say one day had an
44:43issue with his wife he was driving the
44:45spirit tells him what he said not today
44:46holy spirit [laughter]
44:49>> are there times when that happens or
44:51does the more you in your own case the
44:54more you've taught the easier it is to
44:56do because of practice
44:58>> um I would say a teacher
45:01>> has an advantage
45:02>> right because and I encourage every man
45:04in fact everybody that in your journey
45:06you must get to a stage where you teach
45:09it forces you
45:12to step up,
45:13>> right?
45:14>> Cuz you have a larger responsibility. So
45:16it helps you.
45:17>> So there's an advantage of being in
45:18somebody that teaches because now
45:20>> people expecting you to
45:22>> to do it.
45:22>> Yeah.
45:23>> So it helps.
45:24>> However, you will face the same uh
45:27challenges that the average person faces
45:29to do
45:30>> and to do it well and that helps you
45:32because
45:33>> now you're no more teaching from theory.
45:36You're no more teaching, you know,
45:37disconnected from the people.
45:39>> You are actually facing.
45:41>> So the times God gives you a chance to
45:43actually face the challenges people
45:44face,
45:45>> it helps your overall teaching ability
45:48because now you're not just talking, you
45:49know, jury.
45:50>> Yes.
45:51>> You know, I I was a popular marriage
45:54coach. Even before I got married,
45:55>> right?
45:56>> But after I've gotten married,
45:58>> oh, it's a different ball game.
46:00[laughter]
46:01When I talk to my people, we relate.
46:03>> Yes.
46:05Yes came down. So the experiences help
46:08and yes you will have failures. In fact
46:10people will people even like to hear
46:11about your failures more
46:13>> than even your successes because you are
46:15literally at their level
46:16>> and they feel okay we are human after
46:18all you know it's not that this there
46:21are some people in a certain class
46:22>> then we were down here know that this
46:24guy understands us. So it's part of what
46:26keeps my teachings real because
46:28>> I I I relate.
46:29>> Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things
46:31that also comes to me through your
46:33ministry is just the confidence that you
46:37have in God. You know, I said remember
46:40and you've shared this a lot of times
46:41just, you know, it took I was reading an
46:43another interview your wife did and she
46:44was saying one day she was working and
46:46the children were shouting and she
46:48screamed at them shut up or be quiet and
46:51then the Holy Spirit reminded her there
46:53was a time when you were looking for the
46:54noise.
46:55>> Yes. In your house
46:56>> of these children. But all that time
46:58when she was deeply worried,
47:00>> yes,
47:01>> you told her that.
47:02>> Yes.
47:04>> How does that kind of confidence? Cuz
47:06some of most as Christians we struggle
47:08with doubt.
47:09>> We struggle with fear. We know somewhere
47:11that yes, God said it.
47:13>> Yes. [snorts]
47:13>> But God said it doesn't mean that you
47:16know we see people who have unanswered
47:18prayers.
47:19>> At that time, this was earlier in your
47:21ministry. So you're not even it was even
47:23when you are the pastor
47:25>> Kingsley that we know now.
47:27What led to that confidence
47:30>> especially because your wife was also a
47:31Christian and a minister
47:33>> but she had doubts
47:35>> but you were completely confident.
47:38>> What what was happening there? How did
47:39how does that build?
47:40>> Well um the the difference is in
47:43building your faith. So faith is like a
47:45muscle.
47:46>> So that's why somebody can run a
47:47marathon and be okay. Another person
47:49will do half of that and collapse.
47:51>> It's about level of fitness, level of
47:53practice.
47:54>> All right. I had before I met my wife, I
47:56grew up in a word of faith circle. So we
47:58were taught to take the word as it is.
48:02>> If God said it, I believe it that
48:05settles it.
48:06>> So if if it's God that said it, God's
48:08word cannot be broken. He has integrity.
48:10>> So many people still approach. People
48:11are testing God. They are trying God.
48:13No, I'm not testing God. I'm trying God.
48:15This God is if one of his words fail,
48:18then every other thing we are believing
48:21>> also has a problem. M
48:22>> so I believe God 100%.
48:25>> So it was very easy when I met her. She
48:27told me doctors had told me. I said
48:29>> because doctors had told her that she
48:30couldn't have. Yes. I told I said no
48:33there will none be in the land.
48:35>> And when I was studying those scriptures
48:36I didn't know I was going to need them.
48:38You see so you don't read the Bible
48:39because of your problem. That's what
48:40people do today. They trying to just
48:41read the part of it where
48:43>> addressing their situation because you
48:44don't have no clue
48:45>> what is coming
48:46>> what is coming. And usually you need
48:48time to marinate some scriptures
48:50>> for it to even work in your life. So all
48:52the while I was studying the Bible and
48:53saw the nunch land things like that. I
48:55didn't know I was going to marry a woman
48:56like that. So when she came and told me
48:57I didn't even blink twice. I just knew
48:59in my heart that no this is you will
49:01have children. In fact I told her we
49:03were about to start the relationship. I
49:05said let's name our kids. [snorts] So we
49:07even named our kids and the order we
49:08wanted them before we started the
49:10relationship. [laughter]
49:12That's how confident I was and I even
49:13told her that the first year we'll use
49:14family planning
49:16to further anoint the devils. Let me
49:18[laughter] know that look this issue is
49:19done. I not worried about you
49:21>> that the first year I didn't want us to
49:23have children the first year. Let's do
49:24family plans
49:25>> because she would want the manifestation
49:26immediately. Yes.
49:27>> And you're like don't worry.
49:28>> Yes. I want to spend time knowing
49:30ourselves bonding because once children
49:32come it's a different world you know.
49:34>> So yeah.
49:35>> Was she irritated by your faith?
49:38>> Later she said so but at the spot she
49:39wasn't saying so but later she said
49:42every time I told her because I used to
49:43tell her when you in faith I will know
49:45you're not yet in faith.
49:46>> When when you're in faith I will know.
49:47and she was angry. Am I in fact I'm
49:49praying and shouting? Cuz most people
49:50think just praying is faith.
49:52>> No. What you do after you pray
49:55>> is how we know whether you're in faith.
49:56If you pray and you complain and you nag
49:59>> and you repeat the same prayer over and
50:00over again, it means you never believe.
50:02If I told you that I'm bringing I'm
50:04bringing 1,000 naira to you.
50:06>> Yeah.
50:07>> And you're asking me every second, then
50:09you obviously don't believe I'm going to
50:10bring it.
50:10>> That's what So the actions after the
50:13prayer
50:13>> Yeah.
50:14>> is what determines whether you're in
50:15faith. Yes. So most people just think if
50:16I just complain and tell God that you
50:18know God can be forgetful. [laughter]
50:20>> He's busy with other things so I need to
50:22remind him every day.
50:24>> No. If you look at the Bible when the
50:25Anna was a woman that was barren and the
50:27Bible said when she prayed
50:29>> it said her countenance was no longer
50:30sad and she went to eat. Before then she
50:32was fasting not eating
50:33>> then her countenance sad. But when she
50:35prayed
50:35>> she believed said her countenance was
50:37longer sad and she went to eat. That
50:38mean she was already acting like
50:40>> it was already done.
50:41>> Settled and the the baby started to
50:43manifest. So yeah. Incredible. I want to
50:46talk about some of the things that
50:46you've taught taught that people still
50:48struggle with. One of the things is that
50:50you don't believe in courtship.
50:51>> Dating.
50:51>> Dating. Sorry, not courtship. Dating.
50:54And that's even the issue. So people
50:56confuse the dating and
50:58>> with the courtship. Exactly.
50:59>> Can you explain it? You know, because
51:01now I remember I've heard the
51:03explanation. Can you share it with the
51:05people who have not seen it? What do you
51:06mean when you say you don't especially
51:07because
51:08>> your organization is called love,
51:11dating, and marriage. What do you mean
51:13by that?
51:13>> [laughter]
51:14>> All right. We had named the organization
51:16before we started teaching this. Yes.
51:18>> Um and we felt of course the name will
51:21help appeal to people. If we call it
51:23love, courtship and marriage,
51:24>> they won't understand.
51:25>> They be like it's assignment. [laughter]
51:27>> Yeah. But the problem with dating is
51:29that nobody can really define dating
51:32clearly. Everybody has a different idea.
51:34>> And dating usually has no commitment. If
51:36somebody comes and says, "I want to date
51:37you."
51:38>> They've made no commitment to you.
51:39>> Right? There's no way you're going.
51:40>> There's no way you're going. If somebody
51:42when women come to me and say, "Oh, he
51:44dated me for 3 years and he broke my he
51:46I said, "Did he not date you?" That's
51:48exactly what he said.
51:49>> He did. He dated you.
51:51>> You wow.
51:52>> So dating has no commitment, no
51:54destination, no clarity.
51:56>> Yeah.
51:56>> It's just people doing what they can't
51:58really define for the meantime.
52:00>> And I've seen somebody date a girl for
52:0310 years
52:04>> and did not marry her.
52:05>> And he dated another girl for another 10
52:07years and did not marry her.
52:09>> You see, that's what dating is. There's
52:11no commitment. There's no end time.
52:12There's no plan. In fact, I was confl
52:15[laughter]
52:17you can be going into his house, his
52:19friends will BE CALLING YOU AH OUR WIFE.
52:21[laughter]
52:22>> WE'RE going to talk about a conference.
52:23>> Yes. So, I was in a conference. You
52:25know, one lady said she had a question.
52:26I said, "What's the question?" She said,
52:27"It's not even a question that she wants
52:28us to pray for her boyfriend of 7 years
52:31to propose to her."
52:32>> Right?
52:32>> I said, "We should pray for her
52:35boyfriend of seven [laughter] years to
52:37propose to her." So, dumps are people in
52:38dating relationships. Nothing is clearly
52:41defined.
52:42>> All right. So I prefer that we are
52:44friends
52:45>> till we both are sure where we are going
52:48>> and then we define it.
52:50>> All right. We have clarity that this is
52:51a relationship going to marriage. It's
52:53not just dating. It's not just that
52:54we're just dating. You see now the guys
52:56like this dating thing. So they the ones
52:58always saying we must date. They like it
53:00because they most of them are enjoying
53:01all the benefits of marriage in dating.
53:03Yeah.
53:04>> But the girls know
53:05>> that time is more sensitive for women.
53:08>> Yeah. than men. That's just the reality
53:10of the reality. So if a if a guy keeps
53:12you for six, seven years and says,
53:14"Okay, I've dated you now. You're
53:16outdated. [laughter]
53:18>> I want to date somebody else or we are
53:20done. It was nice. Why?"
53:21>> Yeah. You cannot call the person. So you
53:23have to you have to if the person there
53:24has to be intention then what the person
53:26is doing.
53:27>> Yes.
53:28>> So let's be friends. And again this
53:29dating thing makes many people have too
53:31many exes. The average young person now
53:32has 12 13 exes. Okay, you have this in
53:35the platform we started that was that is
53:37mental to marry.
53:38>> One of the things we want to address
53:39because we what we did was that we
53:41researched why people were experiencing
53:42delay
53:42>> right
53:43>> in [snorts] marriage. One of the most
53:45common reasons among all the people we
53:46researched
53:47>> was that they wasted time
53:50>> in relationships that were not defined
53:53>> or not going anywhere.
53:54>> Right?
53:54>> So most people you see that are dealing
53:55with they go and ask them they were in
53:57one relationship that they didn't even
53:58know what it was.
53:59>> Where are we going? That's why women
54:01always ask what are we
54:02>> where are we going? You see, you
54:04shouldn't even enter something
54:05>> where you don't know what you what it's
54:07like being a in a bus or in a plane now
54:09asking the pilot where are we going
54:11>> what [laughter]
54:12>> or where when are we landing you should
54:14all those things are stated before you
54:16even enter the plane so that's how
54:17relationship should be it should be that
54:19okay we're friends okay we've hung out
54:20and so what people do is that they date
54:23people they dates to check people out no
54:25you're supposed to check people out
54:27>> before you start right
54:29>> cuz if you did check people out I date
54:30you for 2 years I've checked you Okay,
54:33>> you're not quite what I want. Then I
54:34date another person on two years. So
54:36I've done six years dating two years
54:38different people to check them out. No,
54:41let's be friends and I can be friends
54:42with as many people as I want to be
54:44>> as long as we're not entering anything
54:46intimate and we're just how are you or
54:47what I do? That's when I know you.
54:49That's when I know what what what rules
54:50your life.
54:51>> Yeah.
54:51>> And if after that period where we've
54:53talked for a while and I feel something
54:55there, you feel something there, then we
54:57can start a relationship with clarity. I
54:58have a book titled Seven Questions Wise
55:00Women Ask. Yes,
55:01>> I tell women all the time, one of the
55:02question you must ask is when
55:04>> I want to marry you or whatever, when
55:06>> when?
55:07>> Because as long as there's no timing,
55:09again, most men enjoy this phase because
55:12a lot of them are getting all the
55:14benefits. It's the the women that are
55:16suffering in silence. The men always
55:17fight me and say, "Leave us. Let's be
55:19dating them." But the women know I know
55:21that you're going to run out of time.
55:22>> Yeah.
55:23>> And this guy has ded and sometimes
55:25dumped you.
55:26>> Yeah. A few time ago, you said shared a
55:28message. you know the way it was worded
55:31because you know I run a PR company. I'm
55:33like okay you know
55:36[laughter]
55:36>> and then the musician see me responded
55:38to it
55:39>> and she was very she and then you know
55:41she wrote in it I respect you I listen
55:44to you but she's like it feels like
55:46you're placing an unfair burden on women
55:49her argument was that um if you say that
55:53men God has shared the roles I think
55:54that was how she interpreted God has
55:56shared the rules the man like you've
55:58explained the man wants all these
55:59benefits
56:00>> the woman is supposed to be like no
56:02gates closed.
56:04>> And then she's thinking that why are you
56:06putting the burden on women? The men
56:09should go and control themselves and
56:11that because people respect you and they
56:14listen to you because you're a pastor,
56:16the woman will go around blaming
56:17themselves for men that cannot control
56:19themselves. Do you empathize with that
56:21point of view
56:22>> or what do you say to it even if you
56:24don't empathize?
56:24>> Yes. First of all, that particular
56:26incident is part of how I became popular
56:27on Instagram.
56:29>> So, that's why I don't mind dragging.
56:30People think when they say, "Oh, pastor,
56:32sorry they're dragging you." YOU SAID,
56:33"LOOK, LET THEM DRAG." THIS has helped
56:35me all my life. So, it's okay.
56:36>> So, the Cing incident actually led to
56:38the explosion on Instagram.
56:39>> Wherever she is, she's watching this.
56:41Thank you. And please come again and say
56:43something. [laughter]
56:45>> Say something. And all of you other
56:46people that are popular, please say
56:48anything you like. Just tag me properly.
56:50So, [laughter]
56:51>> just tag me. Yes. Handle please. you
56:54know, I even call those other blogs as
56:56my media partners because they help me
56:58push the message, you know. So, um, what
57:01was where that clip came from? It was a
57:04it was a women meeting.
57:05>> So, a lot of times people don't know the
57:06context. They just run off. It was a
57:08there were no men in the room,
57:10>> right?
57:10>> It was women. So, I was speaking spec.
57:12There's no talking to men that are not
57:14in the room. When I do all men meetings
57:17or mixed meetings, oh yes, I talk to
57:20men, I talk to women. But that
57:21particular conference
57:22>> was for women.
57:22>> Was for women. So I had to tell women
57:24that they need to understand a man's
57:26psychology.
57:27>> All right? A man's principal psychology
57:30is not to want a mate.
57:33>> But to mate,
57:35>> a woman's principal psychology is to
57:36want a mate.
57:38>> It doesn't mean men would not like to
57:39have a mate. It doesn't mean woman
57:41doesn't like to meet. But if you look at
57:42it principally, what does a woman want
57:44out of something? She wants a longterm
57:47commitment.
57:50A man can deal with shortterm pleasure
57:53and be very okay. So I was just
57:56explaining the differences in the
57:57psychology.
57:58>> All right. And it's basic psychological
58:00fact is basic psychology. Anthropology,
58:03evolutionary psychology, mating all
58:06every mating expert this is established.
58:08>> Established. So that was all that was
58:10about. I'll just tell anyway look that
58:11most times one of the motivations men
58:13have
58:14>> to having this long-term relationship is
58:16the fact that oh they want to have sex
58:19>> and if you're not giving them that sex
58:22they will think about settling down but
58:24once a man is getting all the benefits
58:27he gets incredibly demotivated even he
58:29doesn't know how or why
58:31>> because men are project driven the
58:32moment project is completed
58:34>> he gets very demotivated
58:36>> sometimes you can't even stand the woman
58:38being around
58:40>> once is done.
58:41>> So that was all I was explaining. Again,
58:44>> a one minute clip is difficult to give
58:46you context of a 1 hour
58:49>> sermon. So as a rule, if you see all
58:50those clips,
58:51>> um also check the person's track record,
58:54you know, check many things and I don't
58:56think it's everything that putting ring
58:58light
58:59>> and criticizing. Sometimes you you don't
59:01have context of some things. Check
59:02track. If somebody's constantly saying
59:04rubbish,
59:05>> oh that's that's a different case. But
59:07if if somebody you check his pedigree,
59:09you check okay where so that was just
59:11taken out of context you know and I
59:13think I tried to explain to I can't
59:15remember but everybody just
59:17>> but it helped our ministry greatly
59:19[laughter]
59:20>> I kid you not I'll be wrong to say oh it
59:24helped and so please those of you that
59:26want to drag me continue please
59:28[laughter]
59:28>> I think the important thing that you
59:29also said is that you know it's like
59:31TDJs used to have this when they said
59:33women you know and it's like this is
59:36being said a you are teaching women this
59:38being said from a place of empathy for
59:40the women come to you who have been hurt
59:43who have been disappointed over and over
59:45again and they're trying to understand
59:48what the man is thinking and this thing
59:51is freeing them but people don't
59:54understand
59:55I've been through so many I did a post
59:57recently about single moms
59:59>> oh the result was not great at all
1:00:02[laughter]
1:00:03>> because I've you know in our like I said
1:00:06this method to marry that we did it came
1:00:08out of a two-year research. So it wasn't
1:00:10just a business ideally
1:00:17connect.
1:00:19So one of the things we found out that
1:00:20guys were running away from single moms.
1:00:22>> So we don't want single moms. Some of
1:00:23them I try to insist. I'm trying to
1:00:24enforce them
1:00:26>> take her out first on a date. See if you
1:00:28the guy said no we're not doing single
1:00:30moms. I've had experience single moms.
1:00:31So I just kept running into that
1:00:32experience. You know in my own church
1:00:34it's not so because of course we're
1:00:35under a a certain system. So a lot of
1:00:37single moms have gotten married in my
1:00:38church. Even married guys that have not
1:00:40been married before. So because they
1:00:42both listen to the same things. But when
1:00:43I was trying to do it for people
1:00:44outside, I found out guys don't want to
1:00:46touch single moms. I said, "What are you
1:00:47even talking about? There's nothing
1:00:48wrong with single moms, you know." And
1:00:50they told me that look pastor, these
1:00:51women are all traumatized. They are all
1:00:53whatever that they always put their kids
1:00:56first. They they give me I said, "Look,
1:00:58I was trying to prove them wrong." That
1:01:00was what even
1:01:01>> led to the post.
1:01:01>> Like you said, most of what I do is not
1:01:03random.
1:01:04>> It's not I don't sit down and just cook
1:01:06up. I mean again as a professional we
1:01:07were even allowed to do that right
1:01:08>> so it was because of what I was seeing I
1:01:10said okay let me even hear so I put a
1:01:12post I said look single moms if a guy
1:01:14enters your life and I what I meant was
1:01:16marriage I said would you put the kids
1:01:17first or the man first I just want to
1:01:19hear people's feelers not do you know
1:01:21what the kind of amount of insults
1:01:24>> I got from the single moms they proved
1:01:26the guys were laughing AT ME THAT WE
1:01:27TOLD YOU THESE WOMEN are not ready this
1:01:28woman are full of trauma so as said this
1:01:31woman will put their baby daddy first
1:01:33>> this woman will put their I mean and The
1:01:36a lot of women in the comment section
1:01:37confirmed
1:01:39>> everything the guys
1:01:41>> were telling and I did that post to try
1:01:42and fight for the single moms to and oh
1:01:46man they were saying it's a stupid
1:01:47question.
1:01:48>> They were saying how can you ask an
1:01:50insensitive question? I said it's not a
1:01:51random question. There are guys raising
1:01:54this question. You can't say it's a
1:01:55stupid question when a guy is raising
1:01:57the question.
1:01:58>> You give an answer. Only very few were
1:02:00able to say oh some said oh I'll put my
1:02:01children first.
1:02:02>> There's even no right or wrong. I just
1:02:04don't even know. No point where where
1:02:05you are. So some said I'll open my some
1:02:07said oh no once we are married I'm going
1:02:08to put the man first you know so but
1:02:10there's God has already there's a God
1:02:12answer again like I told you from the
1:02:13beginning there's a God answer. God has
1:02:15made it clear
1:02:16>> that it takes a healthy marriage
1:02:18>> to build a healthy family.
1:02:20>> So that's how God sees it.
1:02:22>> So he said you leave father and mother
1:02:24>> clean to your wife. That's how family is
1:02:26built.
1:02:27>> You don't build a it's not mother and
1:02:28daughter. is husband and wife that now
1:02:31>> becomes the pillar because children will
1:02:33grow and go.
1:02:34>> Yeah.
1:02:35>> Children are secondary members of a
1:02:36family. They never stay forever. They
1:02:38shouldn't.
1:02:39>> They're secondary members of a family.
1:02:40They will grow and go.
1:02:42>> But you know, so
1:02:43>> it's amazing because you're saying this
1:02:45because now we have a child- centered
1:02:46culture.
1:02:47>> Yes.
1:02:47>> And people always assume that this is
1:02:48what it has always been.
1:02:50>> And it's just a little anthropology just
1:02:52observe. So there are things that people
1:02:54hold when you just touch it they're like
1:02:56no it's not acceptable. I think one of
1:02:58the things that people struggle with
1:02:59most is also because as you know I
1:03:01listen to you a lot they you know you
1:03:03say oh you know that's why feminism you
1:03:06now say no not the original feminism.
1:03:08>> Yes I have to [laughter] because people
1:03:09will everything you say now somebody's
1:03:12going to jump
1:03:12>> but there was there I think sometimes
1:03:14people struggle to understand where
1:03:18on gender roles. So for instance recent
1:03:20know how recent but so on the one hand
1:03:22you say oh some women when they meet a
1:03:25man they want a man to pay swooie spc
1:03:29pay all of that.
1:03:30>> Yes.
1:03:30>> On the other hand you've preached that
1:03:33the man is the principal provider. It's
1:03:36a pro it's has been the one called to
1:03:39head the family.
1:03:40>> Yes.
1:03:40>> And people assume that when a man is
1:03:42leading the family
1:03:43>> he should be providing now. [laughter]
1:03:45So in people's mind they like okay. So,
1:03:46and I've seen I saw a comment like this
1:03:48when I was doing the research for this
1:03:49show where he says is this same pastor
1:03:50that preached that the man is the head
1:03:52of the family, the man is the hunter,
1:03:54the man is this. Well, he didn't use the
1:03:56word hunter, but you know what the
1:03:57person is trying to say
1:03:58>> and now he's saying that oh women are
1:04:00looking for a man that can take care of
1:04:02them. Is that not what they should look
1:04:04for? So, I reckon
1:04:07>> because I've listen to your message, I
1:04:08know what you're trying to say, but and
1:04:10I also know where you have been misqued
1:04:11where they've simplified it. What's the
1:04:13answer to that? Because that is one of
1:04:15the key issues
1:04:16>> that young people face and even older
1:04:19people.
1:04:19>> If there are traditional gender roles
1:04:21>> Mhm.
1:04:22>> that were ordained by God, you know,
1:04:25based on and it's expressed through as
1:04:27you've taught science, emotions, women
1:04:30are let me tell you the first thing that
1:04:32I think I ever listened to from you that
1:04:33made me say I'm following Pastor
1:04:35Kingsley. He said one day he said he
1:04:37said there's 15 men and women. If a
1:04:39woman if a man enters a room and the
1:04:42woman wants to scope him she her head
1:04:45will remain straight [laughter]
1:04:48>> but she has assessed his wristwatch his
1:04:51potential she doesn't move her head
1:04:53>> but if the the man cannot multitask
1:04:55[laughter]
1:04:56>> once the woman enters the man is
1:04:58>> yes you can tell
1:05:00>> and then the man thinks that he's the
1:05:02one that caught the woman
1:05:03>> woman the woman was one that was so
1:05:06[laughter] powerful with a woman and
1:05:08then she she And I'm like, how did you
1:05:09see that? Yes,
1:05:11>> you can see from the corner of my eyes.
1:05:13[laughter] Yes, you can see.
1:05:13>> I just remember that. But I'm thinking
1:05:15that those issues of traditional gender
1:05:17roles
1:05:18>> really people struggle with it because
1:05:19when a woman hears it,
1:05:21>> then you yourself you have a working
1:05:22wife who is making money.
1:05:25>> Pastor Mildred who we are going to sit
1:05:26down with is making I mean she's not I
1:05:28don't mean that she's doing it for money
1:05:30but millions of followers, women listen
1:05:32to her. So they're looking at her and
1:05:34thinking but he doesn't have a
1:05:36traditional wife at home. He has a
1:05:37working achieving
1:05:39>> partner.
1:05:40>> So they struggle with that. What does
1:05:42the Bible say? What's the woman supposed
1:05:44to do? Women are in the workplace. They
1:05:46have to go to work. They have to take
1:05:47care. They come back. They're the one
1:05:48that the husband is waiting to take care
1:05:50of the children.
1:05:51>> What is the what is the Bible's
1:05:53position? [laughter]
1:05:55>> Yeah. So like you said, I've never said
1:05:58the man is the provider. I've said the
1:05:59man is the leader.
1:06:00>> Yes.
1:06:01>> We've short changed men for years
1:06:03telling them they are providers. That's
1:06:04not their role. Hm.
1:06:05>> Their role has always been leader.
1:06:07>> Um, a provider, all you need to do to be
1:06:10a provider is to have a job.
1:06:12>> But to be a leader,
1:06:14>> the requirements are way more.
1:06:16>> So many men are never going to achieve
1:06:18or become their full potential.
1:06:20>> Yeah.
1:06:20>> Because they're aiming already for a
1:06:22very low level provider. That's never
1:06:25>> it's not first of all, it's not a
1:06:26biblical stand.
1:06:27>> Right. So the idea that a man is a
1:06:29provider is not a
1:06:31>> not in the Bible at all. So that whole
1:06:32thing about Adam, his job was to farm.
1:06:36>> The the the garden was already full of
1:06:38every good thing. So he was supposed to
1:06:41manage
1:06:42>> and they brought him a helper
1:06:43>> to manage with him.
1:06:44>> Yes. So it wasn't just his job.
1:06:46>> It wasn't just his job. He wasn't the
1:06:47one feeding Eve.
1:06:49>> There was the garden had a serpent gave
1:06:51Eve something to eat [laughter]
1:06:52>> from the same garden. So there was all
1:06:55kinds of things in the garden to eat. So
1:06:58that's not Now is a man more work
1:07:00oriented than a woman? Absolutely. A man
1:07:02gets his a lot of his drive is um
1:07:04self-esteem from work. Yes. But it does
1:07:06not mean a man's core role is to provide
1:07:09>> is provide. It's not in the Bible. First
1:07:10of all, the scripture people misquote
1:07:12>> First Timothy 5. If you read from verse
1:07:133 to 16,
1:07:15>> it's talking about widows, right?
1:07:16>> Not talking about husband and wife and
1:07:18wives.
1:07:18>> And even in verse 16 specifically says
1:07:20if any woman does not provide. So he
1:07:22mentioned woman specifically. All they
1:07:24were saying was that people had mothers
1:07:25or grandmothers that were widows and the
1:07:28church was paying the bills for all
1:07:29these widows and church said look we
1:07:30can't pay all these things that if
1:07:31you're here a man and woman and you have
1:07:32a widow help us take care of this widow
1:07:34whether it's your sister your auntie or
1:07:36whatever let church face those widows
1:07:37that really are old and have nobody no
1:07:40relation that's what that whole
1:07:41scripture has nothing to do with husband
1:07:44and wife providing so that's one but
1:07:47throughout scripture one thing you will
1:07:48see consistently is God calling men
1:07:50leaders right
1:07:52>> so right from proverbs When they
1:07:53describe Proverbs 31 woman, that woman
1:07:56did not need money. She was in real
1:07:58estate, she was in agriculture, she was
1:07:59important, export, she was in fashion,
1:08:01she was in all kinds of businesses. And
1:08:02when they were going to describe her
1:08:04husband, they say he was a leader
1:08:06>> in the parliament.
1:08:08>> So you see God saying
1:08:10>> a man's core role is leader.
1:08:12>> All through scripture, you see the man
1:08:13is the head. If you go to David and
1:08:15Abigail, you see it there. Abigail was
1:08:17might to a provider, but Abigail felt
1:08:19the provider was a fool. Mhm.
1:08:21>> But saw David was a leader. He was
1:08:23leading about 600 men
1:08:25>> and she fell in love with David. David
1:08:26also fell in love with her. So what a
1:08:28woman really wants
1:08:30>> is a leader.
1:08:31>> Leadership.
1:08:31>> Now of course when you're in a poor
1:08:33climate like this, people think oh money
1:08:34is such is over magnified. So women
1:08:37think I just want a man that provides.
1:08:39What most of those women don't know is
1:08:41that they should go and research
1:08:44what happens eventually when the man is
1:08:46the sole provider
1:08:48>> and the romantic love has gone down
1:08:51>> has gone down.
1:08:51>> So I tell women that say I must marry a
1:08:52provider. I say make sure he doesn't
1:08:54lose his affection for you
1:08:56>> because a lot of these men that are
1:08:57providers after a while they just want
1:08:59to change a woman they want another
1:09:00woman
1:09:00>> either as a concubine or they just want
1:09:02even kick out
1:09:03>> the first wife and this first wife now
1:09:05starts to learn new trade because she
1:09:07has never worked all her life. So wow.
1:09:08>> So she struggles to survive.
1:09:10>> Yeah.
1:09:10>> May he not lose his job. Sometime he
1:09:12even still loves you but he's the only
1:09:14income person and he has now lost his
1:09:16job or business. Life falls down or may
1:09:18he not lose his life.
1:09:19>> He dies.
1:09:20>> Then again you see poverty ravage that
1:09:22family because woman didn't do anything.
1:09:24She just felt this man should be the
1:09:26provider. So there's nowhere and I tell
1:09:28people check everywhere leaders are.
1:09:30There's no other there's no way a leader
1:09:32is providing for you.
1:09:33>> If it's government our leaders are they
1:09:35providing for us or we are paying tax.
1:09:37Right.
1:09:37>> What the leadership provide is enabling
1:09:39>> environment. We pay tax to fund the
1:09:41leader.
1:09:41>> We actually the providers.
1:09:42>> We the providers. If you check church,
1:09:44does your pastor go and print money? No.
1:09:46You pay tithe or give seeds. That's what
1:09:49they used to buy air conditioning, buy
1:09:50microphone, pay musicians, whatever to
1:09:53give you enabling environment.
1:09:55>> If you check your office employment,
1:09:56your boss is not providing for you. You
1:09:58are working. The day what you're
1:10:00contributing is below what they are
1:10:03paying you.
1:10:03>> Yeah.
1:10:04>> They're going to let you go.
1:10:06>> So check everywhere. There's no leader
1:10:07providing for you. They're providing
1:10:08enabling environment. They're providing
1:10:10vision.
1:10:11>> They're providing maybe protection.
1:10:13Things like that is what a leader
1:10:14actually provides. Now,
1:10:16>> if you even look at his society, that
1:10:18small erroneous teaching and belief has
1:10:20done more harm than good.
1:10:22>> Because the love of men today, they've
1:10:23told him he's a provider.
1:10:24>> The moment his wife wants to go to
1:10:26school or get a job, he he's
1:10:28intentionally doing his best
1:10:29>> to make sure. Yes. Because he's going to
1:10:31lose his sense of identity
1:10:32>> the moment she starts anymore. And for
1:10:34all those of us that preach around the
1:10:36world, a lot of marriages that go from I
1:10:38always say there are three kinds of
1:10:39marriage. It's a long thing. I don't
1:10:40want to waste your your time. There are
1:10:41three kinds of marriage. There's a
1:10:42cultural marriage, there's contemporary
1:10:44marriage, and then there's kingdom
1:10:46marriage or Christian marriage.
1:10:47>> So there's three types. So most
1:10:48Christians don't know which one they
1:10:49operate in.
1:10:51>> So if you operate a cultural marriage,
1:10:52the man is the provider in that
1:10:53marriage. They don't know the reason why
1:10:54the man is provider because whoever
1:10:56controls the money controls the system.
1:10:58>> So it's not a great thing. In
1:11:00contemporary marriage, women are
1:11:01independent.
1:11:03So they usually don't have the unity.
1:11:04But the Christian marriage we are
1:11:06interdependent. So cultural woman is
1:11:09dependent.
1:11:10>> Contemporary woman is independent.
1:11:12>> Christian one we are interdependent.
1:11:14We're working as a team.
1:11:15>> Sorry. [laughter] Sorry.
1:11:19>> So those are the three kinds of
1:11:20marriage. I have a full teacher on I
1:11:22think there's a book that explores this.
1:11:24>> Yeah. We we haven't released it yet
1:11:26because you mentioned it in a preaching.
1:11:27>> Yes. So those are two most people are
1:11:29interchanging the types of marriage and
1:11:31if what they do is they when they export
1:11:32a cultural marriage and relocate
1:11:35>> it doesn't work
1:11:36>> it doesn't work but like those your apps
1:11:37when you travel this app is not
1:11:38applicable in this region that's how
1:11:40cultural marriages
1:11:41>> marriage is not applicable in this
1:11:43region [laughter]
1:11:44>> when you export it as I travel around
1:11:46Canada US they always say oh don't bring
1:11:48your wife from
1:11:49>> Nigeria
1:11:50>> you know what happened to those guys
1:11:51they carry their cultural marriage
1:11:54>> want to run it there when they get there
1:11:55they find out both man and woman works
1:11:57In fact, women have an advantage in
1:11:59getting jobs there and many
1:12:02more than you.
1:12:03>> The man loses his sense of identity.
1:12:06>> Yeah.
1:12:06>> And he finds it hard to even do house
1:12:07chores cuz in cultural marriage men
1:12:09don't
1:12:10>> do don't know what the kitchen looks
1:12:11like.
1:12:11>> No. Exactly.
1:12:12>> So he gets he gets there. He thinks he's
1:12:15now I'm doing dishes. My wife is even
1:12:17earning more than me. The woman also is
1:12:18struggling mentally. They've told her
1:12:20all the while that the reason why you
1:12:22submit to a man
1:12:22>> is because he's a provider.
1:12:24>> So she has gotten there. She earns more
1:12:26than him. She's wondering
1:12:26>> what am what am I what is this what am I
1:12:28expecting
1:12:29>> who is this person sir [laughter]
1:12:31who is this guy what what are you
1:12:33contributing to this
1:12:34>> yes yes
1:12:34>> a lot of women that have looked me in
1:12:36the eye especially abroad and have told
1:12:37me they want to divorce their husband
1:12:38some of them actually on the process of
1:12:39their husband and I said what did he do
1:12:41they can't place their hand on anything
1:12:43>> they are just tired because one of the
1:12:45major causes of divorce is stress people
1:12:47don't know
1:12:48>> stress
1:12:49>> stress
1:12:49>> good old stress when you are tired
1:12:52>> all your decisions are wrong
1:12:54>> you want to lighten the load anything
1:12:56that you can let go of. So when this
1:12:57woman is stressed living America working
1:13:0012our shifts
1:13:01>> and she's tired and she wants to offload
1:13:03something.
1:13:03>> Yeah.
1:13:04>> She she looks at the kids. She loves the
1:13:05kids. She doesn't want to offload them.
1:13:06>> Yes.
1:13:07>> She looks at her job.
1:13:08>> She loves the security. She doesn't load
1:13:10it. She looks at this man.
1:13:12>> I'm any more than him. [laughter]
1:13:14>> He's not bringing major income.
1:13:16>> He wants to eat all the time. He wants
1:13:17to have sex all the time.
1:13:19>> He's a major cause
1:13:20>> of stress
1:13:21>> of my stress. I'm going to drop him. H
1:13:24>> so a lot of marriages when they cross
1:13:25from here
1:13:26>> cultural marriage get there contemporary
1:13:28marriage
1:13:29>> it does not survive it
1:13:30>> does not survive
1:13:31>> so a lot of young guys today they don't
1:13:32want to marry
1:13:33>> because you they've told you a provider
1:13:35the young girl today has Gwagon
1:13:37>> has a house maybe not in Africa but in
1:13:40America where women are nurses doctors
1:13:42pharmacist you know if you go to school
1:13:44there you have you have opportunities
1:13:45>> of course
1:13:46>> so have single girls driving jwagon
1:13:47driving Benz driving big cars own their
1:13:50own houses
1:13:51>> then you tell this boy from Africa
1:13:53that you are provide of this girl.
1:13:55[laughter]
1:13:56>> So he's thinking what can I provide for
1:13:58her?
1:13:58>> What can I provide for her?
1:13:59>> So he's he's afraid of marriage. He
1:14:00knows they're going to they're going to
1:14:01squeeze him when he gets there. And the
1:14:03woman too is not trained to understand
1:14:05how to regard and respect the man
1:14:07>> if he's not provided.
1:14:08>> The moment he's she's any more than him,
1:14:10she wants to rubbish it. So the harm
1:14:13>> that one erroneous teaching
1:14:15>> has caused,
1:14:17>> I can go on and on for for for days. So
1:14:20the real thing is that two people come
1:14:21together and work as a team.
1:14:23>> Yes, men have some advantaged women are
1:14:26the key thing that work as a team.
1:14:28>> For instance, if if I'm working some if
1:14:30I'm in fact not if I I have a home in in
1:14:33Houston, Texas.
1:14:34>> I do dishes. I do school runs.
1:14:36>> I do I runs.
1:14:38>> So I mean there's no big deal. My wife
1:14:40has a life class. She has something she
1:14:42has to do. Of course I go to Yes. I take
1:14:44church. I wash dishes. I I cook. I I go
1:14:46I go and I go get groceries. That's me,
1:14:48General Vasier of 30 years, you know,
1:14:51big pastor. See, you must understand in
1:14:53kingdom marriage,
1:14:55>> we are two servants
1:14:56>> serving each other
1:14:58>> and we'll do whatever needs to be done.
1:14:59We we're in partnership. That's even the
1:15:01main thing to understand.
1:15:01>> Partnership.
1:15:02>> We're in partnership. So, it doesn't
1:15:03matter who ends what.
1:15:04>> Yes. Yes.
1:15:05>> That if you're counting who is any,
1:15:07you're already missing the point. It
1:15:08becomes a competition. So many families
1:15:10are competing instead of complimenting.
1:15:13[laughter]
1:15:14>> You see my pastor is my pastor.
1:15:17>> Yes. So in our house we don't know who
1:15:18ears what. We have one
1:15:20>> and we plan together from there.
1:15:22>> What if we want to buy a house, want to
1:15:24buy a car, it's our money.
1:15:26>> It doesn't matter who brings what.
1:15:28>> We're not checking it that you and bring
1:15:29him. Once you are in those things,
1:15:30you're not in marriage.
1:15:31>> Marriage,
1:15:32>> you're in a competition.
1:15:33>> So, it's a whole um
1:15:35>> it's a whole thing.
1:15:36>> We know that you travel a lot. Even if
1:15:37it's just LDM.
1:15:39>> Yes.
1:15:40>> It is a lot of traveling.
1:15:42>> Yes.
1:15:42>> But then you're doing that. You've now
1:15:44done mentor to marry from a burden in
1:15:46your heart. Yes,
1:15:47>> you were doing the um the other one that
1:15:49had the teachers for that and others
1:15:51trying to build complete men,
1:15:53>> you know, etc. You said you're going to
1:15:55launch a TV show. You've not launched it
1:15:56yet though. The one with cars,
1:15:58interviewing people in cars.
1:15:59>> I've started it actually,
1:16:00>> but you have released it. Yes.
1:16:01>> Okay. I've not seen I've not seen that.
1:16:03So, there's a lot happening pastorly.
1:16:06>> How do you manage all of them? Because
1:16:08your fame is global. You know, you've
1:16:10ministered in churches across the world.
1:16:12So and you touch people I've never
1:16:13stepped a foot inside dcc I'm like oh I
1:16:17will go into dcc but you know because I
1:16:20consume your messages I consume your
1:16:21wife's messages but people will say ah
1:16:23because you've built LDM into this
1:16:24global movement
1:16:26>> that's why DCC just has two churches
1:16:29>> and it's because has two churches that's
1:16:31why these juniors in the ministry don't
1:16:33because they count it by branches you
1:16:35know 15 branches 20 branches it is it
1:16:38see so do you do you think that one has
1:16:42suffered for the other. But even more
1:16:44importantly, how do you manage all of
1:16:46these things? Because these are
1:16:47different systems trying to do different
1:16:49things.
1:16:50>> Oh, that's a that's a good question. Um,
1:16:53first thing first, apart from, of
1:16:55course, God's grace. Um, I have a good
1:16:57team,
1:16:58>> right?
1:16:58>> Then I have an incredible wife.
1:17:01>> Um, she's just she's an incredible
1:17:02person. She runs on all cylinders. She
1:17:05can, you know, break things down into
1:17:07systems, very organized. So that is a
1:17:10major really secret of it. Then I have a
1:17:12great team.
1:17:13>> I I I take people seriously. I take
1:17:15great I know I can't do much by myself.
1:17:19So I need a great team. So I have great
1:17:20media guys, great assistants,
1:17:23>> you know, um things like that that help
1:17:26manage, you know, all of the things. Um
1:17:29the good thing is that we also have
1:17:30resident pastors
1:17:32>> that now fully sit over the churches. I
1:17:34still preach. I still show up. But we
1:17:36have people that do the real dayto-day
1:17:38>> right
1:17:39>> of uh pastoring. And yes, um usually
1:17:42when you go out like that to bless the
1:17:45body, uh sometimes you take a heat as
1:17:48well in terms of oh, you're not paying
1:17:50attention to your own
1:17:52>> um church. So yeah, um I would say a
1:17:55bit, not badly, but it's part of the
1:17:57price you have to pay. It's not every
1:17:59pastor that is called to minister to the
1:18:01body.
1:18:02>> Some people are called to that. their
1:18:03local assembly. So, they give it their
1:18:06all. But for me, from day one, I've
1:18:08always known that it's part of why we
1:18:09didn't have so many branches.
1:18:10>> I've always known that my calling is not
1:18:12to a local
1:18:13>> right
1:18:13>> assembly. All right. Um I'm called more
1:18:16to travel to talk and we've been all
1:18:18across the world literally.
1:18:20>> Yeah.
1:18:20>> You know, to preach and Jesus was not a
1:18:22pastor
1:18:23>> to they said he went from every city to
1:18:25city to preach. So, [laughter]
1:18:27>> so you are following in the tradition
1:18:29Jesus ministry. Really?
1:18:30>> Final question. Well, I don't want this
1:18:31ver question because I want to talk
1:18:33about the controversy this year, it's
1:18:35difficult to ignore because looking at
1:18:36your hands, I can see the tattoo,
1:18:38[laughter]
1:18:38>> you know, and you know, so of obviously
1:18:41even though I respect you a lot and you
1:18:44blessed me deeply, you know, I don't
1:18:47agree on everything.
1:18:49>> The tattoo thing,
1:18:52>> I just thought, why didn't Pastor
1:18:53Kingsley just have the tattoo and move
1:18:57on? Yes.
1:18:58>> Why is he even responding to criticism?
1:19:02I mean, my mother is a pastor. I've been
1:19:05a member of this staff for this is my
1:19:0623rd year.
1:19:08>> You know, I have read the Bible. You
1:19:10know, if you want to, you know, when we
1:19:11start doing biblical CV, I've read the
1:19:13Bible cover to cover two times. So, you
1:19:16don't need to tell me that, oh, tattoo
1:19:18is not a sin. All of those things. And
1:19:19I'm like, the people who need it to be
1:19:21explained to them are not going to
1:19:23understand it via social media. the
1:19:26people who understand it already know
1:19:28what you're doing. So in my mind I
1:19:30struggled mightily [laughter]
1:19:31>> yes
1:19:32>> with the fact that you kept that you not
1:19:34kept that you responded to the critics
1:19:38you know and I struggled with the tone
1:19:40of the response but again I always say
1:19:43tone is a personal matter I don't
1:19:44dictate
1:19:46why did you feel the need to explain it
1:19:49rather than just do the tattoo
1:19:52>> and so so there was a there's a there's
1:19:55a um there's a young man that does a
1:19:57YouTube thing that criticize that
1:19:59reviews pastors I forget his name and he
1:20:01kept saying look and then somebody
1:20:02commented this is what he said this
1:20:03person said look pastor Kinsley wants to
1:20:06wants to wants to be fly and [laughter]
1:20:09have a tattoo you should have just done
1:20:11it
1:20:12>> and not explain to us but so why did you
1:20:15feel the need you know do you think
1:20:17looking back that you should have just
1:20:18done that you should have just done your
1:20:19tattoo and celebrate your 50th birthday
1:20:21and moved on with it
1:20:22>> because it became a whole thing and for
1:20:24some people that was the first thing of
1:20:27course they must off the internet.
1:20:29>> Yes. [laughter]
1:20:30>> But for some that don't really pay, they
1:20:32see videos but they're not really paying
1:20:34attention. This is the first thing they
1:20:36see and I'm like this cannot be the
1:20:38first thing you are paying attention to
1:20:39for a man
1:20:40>> who has blessed my relationship life.
1:20:42>> Yes. I have been a pastor for 30 years.
1:20:45>> For 30 years. Yes. [laughter]
1:20:47>> Yeah. Um so many things. Number one,
1:20:49Nigeria is plagued with the spirit of
1:20:51religion.
1:20:52>> Right.
1:20:53>> And sometimes
1:20:55people have to push some of those
1:20:57things. push some of those boundaries.
1:20:58If not,
1:20:59>> that spirit will just keep oppressing
1:21:01people. What people don't realize, a lot
1:21:02of people were angry and all, but don't
1:21:03realize that there's a time in this
1:21:05country, if you're a Christian, you
1:21:06couldn't wear jeans. I'm wearing jeans
1:21:07here.
1:21:08>> You couldn't wear jeans.
1:21:09>> The time you couldn't um have wigs. The
1:21:12time as a woman, you couldn't wear
1:21:13earrings. The time you couldn't have you
1:21:14could even have a nice haircut.
1:21:16>> So people fought all those things.
1:21:19>> So when people say, why do somebody has
1:21:21to set the next generation free,
1:21:23>> right?
1:21:24>> Right. Somebody has to somebody has to
1:21:26do it and that person will take the heat
1:21:27sometimes.
1:21:28>> But thank God for the min for instance
1:21:30if you were a pastor those years ah your
1:21:32family will be crying because you are
1:21:33going to die in poverty.
1:21:34>> There are people that pushed for being a
1:21:37pastor to be an honorable
1:21:38>> thing and they took the heat. There are
1:21:40time people like Da they bought a
1:21:43motorcycle they not not a power bike as
1:21:46ina they insulted him and attacked him
1:21:48and doing that he has backslided but now
1:21:51pastors are flying jets
1:21:53>> you know they don't know who paid the
1:21:54price
1:21:55>> for that to be
1:21:56>> for that to be acceptable
1:21:57>> so that's how life is so um some people
1:22:00think oh because pastor now lives abroad
1:22:02that no I've been a biker even before I
1:22:05even became saved
1:22:06>> so for more than 30 years I've been
1:22:07riding motorcycles in Dubai Oman
1:22:09different countries I'm a proper
1:22:10Harley-Davidson member.
1:22:12>> Yes. Anybody that follows you knows that
1:22:13you're also a proper sports person. You
1:22:16don't play with live matches. This is
1:22:18since time again. [laughter]
1:22:20>> So even my bike guys um they were
1:22:22laughing when they were hearing the
1:22:23story because they have full sleeve.
1:22:24They wonder this thing is what the whole
1:22:26country is. I said man they were
1:22:27laughing. It was because they were
1:22:29seeing that you know something seems to
1:22:30be wrong with our thinking. The spirit
1:22:32of religion,
1:22:33>> right?
1:22:33>> Yes. I could have done it secretly.
1:22:35>> Yeah. But I didn't even know it was
1:22:37going to be this much of a buzz. I knew
1:22:40some people won't like it, but I didn't
1:22:41expect it to be. It just showed that we
1:22:43are still more religious than we think.
1:22:46And religion is a burden.
1:22:48>> It's not a positive thing.
1:22:50>> So
1:22:51>> I feel God used that thing to set there
1:22:54are a lot of people that began to follow
1:22:56me that began to reach out to me. A lot
1:22:58of big pastors kids have tattoos. Their
1:23:01parents just don't know
1:23:02>> and people just don't know. So a lot of
1:23:04them started getting delivery. A lot of
1:23:05them started feeling accepted because
1:23:06tattoo is not the same. I preach in
1:23:08multiracial churches. Sometime the
1:23:09pastors of the church are preaching at
1:23:10is
1:23:12and some of them we share the story.
1:23:13Some people say, "Oh, I made this tattoo
1:23:15when I found Christ in the prison and
1:23:17they sharing me showing me the tattoo.
1:23:18They're showing telling me the story
1:23:19behind it." So it's only in Nigeria that
1:23:21I had to be explaining and I wasn't
1:23:23really defending myself. There were
1:23:25genuinely people that
1:23:27>> needed education.
1:23:28>> Not even explain more like education.
1:23:30>> Yes. The teaching.
1:23:31>> Yes. Yes. So that was what see again the
1:23:33blogs always have a way of cutting
1:23:35things. If you look at everything I said
1:23:38>> I was just giving context about
1:23:40different things.
1:23:41>> So if you say oh the tone you know
1:23:44people have a phony idea of
1:23:45Christianity. They think Jesus was a
1:23:47>> just meek.
1:23:48>> Jesus called people fox.
1:23:51Paul call people dogs. They are things
1:23:54that Jesus was not one funny guy. Call
1:23:57people snakes.
1:23:58>> Yes. Vipers.
1:23:59>> Vipers. So people have an a funny idea
1:24:01of Jesus.
1:24:02>> There was one guy that slapped me in one
1:24:04cheek. Oh, he was a tough guy. There are
1:24:06times to be brash with some people. So
1:24:07if you see my tone, I was not speaking
1:24:09to everybody. I was speaking to specific
1:24:12>> people groups or people that I know some
1:24:14of those videos were even maybe in my
1:24:15church.
1:24:16>> I was speaking to my congregation. I was
1:24:18speaking to a particular thing, but they
1:24:19just cut that that why did this? I'm not
1:24:22that kind of pastor. Let me just tell
1:24:23you for now. I I call people out and
1:24:25just like Jesus, some people I can call
1:24:27them like Jesus if you have issue
1:24:29with me have issue issue
1:24:30>> with Jesus.
1:24:32>> All right. [laughter]
1:24:33>> He was not he called people different
1:24:34animals.
1:24:35>> Yeah.
1:24:35>> You know so um so I wasn't really trying
1:24:37to defend or whatever. Some people
1:24:39genuinely were reaching out and saying
1:24:41>> what does the Bible say?
1:24:43>> In fact one some people abroad that met
1:24:45me they said
1:24:46>> two days before I posted their kids
1:24:48their grown kids came to them and said I
1:24:50want to do tattoo
1:24:51>> and they open Leveticus.
1:24:53>> Yes.
1:24:53>> For the child and say it's a sin.
1:24:55>> Yes. 2 days after
1:24:56>> dismissed.
1:24:58>> So they came back to read. He made them
1:25:00go and search the scripture
1:25:02>> and saw that there's not one scripture.
1:25:04>> Yeah.
1:25:05>> That set out to the same.
1:25:06>> Yeah.
1:25:06>> So they had to call their kids back and
1:25:08say what I told you before
1:25:10>> was
1:25:11>> so that my God used that thing to set
1:25:14>> a lot of
1:25:15>> the body of Christ were not ready for
1:25:16the next generation.
1:25:18>> We still we're still in in in in
1:25:20delusion or in um whatever. We're not
1:25:22ready for the next generation. And to
1:25:25show how hypocritical my country is,
1:25:28>> a few months after my tattoo thing,
1:25:29World Cup came and everybody was
1:25:31supporting Luna Messi [laughter] that
1:25:33has full tattoo.
1:25:35>> So is tattoo a sin or not. You can't say
1:25:37it's good for Luna Messi.
1:25:39>> Yes.
1:25:39>> But it's not good for
1:25:40>> in this country. We bring in musicians
1:25:42like Chandler Moore. Every year he comes
1:25:45to do concerts here and we sing we sing
1:25:47all the
1:25:49he has tattoos. So Nigerians are just
1:25:51that's what I'm saying. We're
1:25:52hypocritical. We are religious but we
1:25:55don't have the real power of Christ. You
1:25:56can't support me and tell you hate
1:25:57tattoos. You love tattoos. [laughter]
1:25:59>> You love them very much.
1:26:00>> One woman that came to insult me. I
1:26:02checked her page. She was a big
1:26:03supporter of that video that has
1:26:05tattoos. But you you insult me,
1:26:08>> you know. So somewhere in our head we
1:26:09think tattoo is a sin. There's no
1:26:11scripture. And just because some bad
1:26:12people use tattoos
1:26:14>> does not mean
1:26:15>> does not mean tattoo is bad. Bad people
1:26:17wear mafia guys wear suits. But here in
1:26:20Nigeria, pastors wear suits. So you
1:26:22can't condemn suits because one mafia
1:26:24guy wore suits or one girl wore tattoo
1:26:26then tattoo is bad. No, if you can show
1:26:28me in scripture
1:26:29>> which the only scripture people tell me
1:26:31is that oh he's not expedient. What is
1:26:33expedient? I say expedient to who?
1:26:35>> Yes.
1:26:38[laughter]
1:26:41Instagram is is Instagram expedient
1:26:44[laughter]
1:26:44>> but you Instagram telling me what's
1:26:46expedient. So you know it's just it just
1:26:49showed me that Nigeria has not grown you
1:26:52know mentally and spiritually as I
1:26:54assumed. I actually thought no we have
1:26:56passed if we are bringing all the gospel
1:26:58greats we are bringing worship ministers
1:27:00that have tattoo uh we are doing
1:27:02collabos with them but suddenly
1:27:05>> a pastor cannot do it
1:27:07>> but your favorite worship music you some
1:27:09of the songs you are singing from
1:27:10elevation we worship and some of those
1:27:11guys have tattoos so we're just
1:27:13hypocrite we're not sure what want to do
1:27:14then walk up comes you support Luna
1:27:15Mercy but he has full tattoos but it's
1:27:18not a sin
1:27:18>> it's either it's a sin or it's not you
1:27:20have to choose
1:27:21>> yes
1:27:21>> which one it is and it has to be backed
1:27:23by
1:27:24>> by scripture
1:27:24>> by scripture Not just your personal what
1:27:26you were doing.
1:27:27>> Yes. Let's stay with what the Bible does
1:27:29say. Don't use your personal
1:27:30consecration or your personal preference
1:27:32>> to say everybody must and what did I put
1:27:36John 3:16. It became the most searched
1:27:38scripture
1:27:39>> in that season. So if you made God
1:27:41famous, who am I? I'm glad. [laughter]
1:27:44>> Thank you. Thank you so much for joining
1:27:45me today. This was worth it. If I had
1:27:48time, we will go forever, you know. But
1:27:50I do want to thank you for just being a
1:27:53blessing to my life. I mean I'm not even
1:27:55>> I'm not this is the second time I'm
1:27:56meeting you. The first time was in a
1:27:58plane. This is the second time. I've
1:27:59never really messaged you but you have
1:28:01been a bless. So you were talking to
1:28:02caught me. I'm like okay I'm saying that
1:28:04oh I don't like the way fact I was
1:28:05explaining but there are people that
1:28:08need the explanation the same way some
1:28:10things need to be explained to me. So
1:28:11somebody else had come to say why you
1:28:13explaining that how
1:28:14>> people were really reaching me from
1:28:15their some churches. They were saying oh
1:28:18they're doing a bible study on tattoo in
1:28:19their church that should tell them what
1:28:20does the bible say about this. So I had
1:28:22to
1:28:23>> thank you for your ministry. Thank you
1:28:24to Pastor Mildred for her ministry and
1:28:27congrats on turning 50
1:28:30>> and all the impact after that.
1:28:32>> Yes. Thank you so much. It's a wrap.
1:28:34Okay.

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