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Kiki Smith • An Artist’s Sources — Transcript

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0:02oh god
0:04um hi thank you all for coming back
0:08um I know I was supposed to be here two
0:09weeks ago and had the flu and of course
0:11I still have the flu but then I was
0:14under the covers um some little better
0:18um yeah I was told that this talk was
0:21posted about Origins and you know I
0:24thought like I'm from Nuremberg Germany
0:26and I grew up in New Jersey and
0:29um and then I thought oh I hoped I was
0:32going to my Origins I was moving towards
0:35my origins or something and then I
0:37thought that was probably about as much
0:39as I could think about that because
0:41um
0:42but first in relationship to my Origins
0:45I am not the daughter of David Smith I
0:47am the daughter of Tony Smith
0:49um which is
0:51um sort of similar generation but a
0:53different artist and
0:58um
1:00you know probably I always think you
1:01know like when you pull out zoom out in
1:04the Long Haul there's not a lot of
1:06difference between anything that's going
1:08on at any given moment but like in the
1:10close-up we like to pretend that there
1:13is or something but
1:15um but I do come from an artist family
1:19um well we're just little clickers I do
1:21come from art assembly and uh my I guess
1:24my great grandfather came from Ireland
1:28as a um
1:30altar Carver in Newark New Jersey and
1:33then I think other side were
1:34Boilermakers and
1:37um and then Water Works Engineers so I
1:41thought they were all had some activity
1:43you know like physical activity in their
1:45bodies and you know I suppose my father
1:48was supposed to go into the fire hydrant
1:50business and
1:52um by luck for him I suppose the parents
1:57died they lost all the money they lost
1:58the factory and he got to do what he
2:02wanted and probably out of that I got to
2:04do what I wanted but um anyway I brought
2:08slides and
2:10um you know I thought like I was trying
2:12to look through all my slides and you
2:13know I've made a lot of stuff by now and
2:16I always really like I love to hear
2:19someone like Rachel white read talk or
2:21Charlie Ray talk where they can show
2:23like 10 things and talk for like an hour
2:26and a half or something about like 10
2:28things and it's really consequent and
2:30it's really calm and I can't do that at
2:33all like I'm
2:35um like extremely like frenetic slightly
2:38anxious
2:40um person who's kind of moving in all
2:42directions at any given moment and
2:45um so I thought oh no I just want to
2:47like you know show lots of things I like
2:49yesterday I was like practically crying
2:51that I couldn't bring four trays of
2:53slides because I thought like you know
2:55at least it can work as a like a
2:57distraction like going like this when
2:59like I'm floundering and have no idea
3:01what to say and also I talked to a
3:03lovely young girl here before who asked
3:05me like every question that I could make
3:07up an answer to that I would say here so
3:11then I thought afterwards like oh no
3:13what am I going to do but but in any
3:16case
3:17um you know I so like when I was going
3:19through the slides I thought like oh
3:21like either you're trying to like
3:22substantiate why the people should
3:24bother to come see you or what is like
3:27uh like to show your prowess or
3:29something like that and you know then I
3:32thought oh you can sort of look in a
3:33book if you want to do that so then I
3:35just thought oh I'd rather try I'm
3:37working on a photo show at the moment
3:39and I thought like making photographs to
3:42me is about
3:43you're one about cannibalizing my work
3:46but it's also about like how I see it or
3:49or getting to see it yeah in a kind of
3:51uh intimate subjective way of seeing it
3:54so I thought oh if I made a slideshow I
3:57could show all my art like artwork this
3:59is this this is this but
4:01then at the same time I could just show
4:03like much more peripheral things that
4:05never get shown I mean the only things
4:07that have been photographed are probably
4:09things that have been in art galleries
4:11I've gone through my art gallery because
4:13otherwise they don't like the things
4:15that go out of my house direct out of my
4:17house there's no record of whatsoever
4:20um but the things that went through my
4:22galleries their records and so
4:25um you know I thought oh then you're
4:27you're always
4:28like constructing this version of
4:31yourself that's much more reductive than
4:34your own experience of it to begin with
4:37anyway but I still thought okay I'll try
4:39to
4:40um
4:41do something or rather now left
4:44left is that side
4:46all right is that side I guess we could
4:48turn off the lights
4:50on the first line that doesn't work
4:52oh
4:55is the other one turned on
4:57okay
4:58okay now do I have to focus it or does
5:01it Focus automatically
5:03I hope
5:05that part that's when I lose it no that
5:08yeah okay yeah if you guys can focus
5:09that's really great
5:12um
5:12so this are like completely in no order
5:16whatsoever and no Chrono yeah no
5:18chronological order no material orders
5:21no anything and
5:23um I thought when you're saying about
5:25talking and listening at the same time I
5:28have to wing it at the same time and so
5:31like you know if you all see me sort of
5:33you know when I start really floundering
5:36you know you can really feel free to ask
5:39questions because I thought like you
5:41know I thought oh I'm getting paid to do
5:42this I should have it together but I
5:43thought like you guys can still take
5:46responsibility for being here and and
5:50ask something but
5:52I guess because I was telling this girl
5:54about print making and stuff and and two
5:57prints showed up I can talk about
5:58printmaking a little bit or something or
6:00I'll just go through you know I'll just
6:01have to make it up but
6:03um
6:04so I came to New York when I was about
6:0624 I went to art school for a year and a
6:09half before that
6:11um because I was a waitress and it was
6:13um much too difficult being a waitress
6:16um so I thought oh Art School must be
6:18better and then I moved to New York and
6:22I wanted to go to school and
6:25um I immediately started Living with
6:26this guy and he said you know like if
6:28you want to be an artist be an artist
6:29and um I wasn't too afraid to find out
6:33whether they had let me into school or
6:35not so I just never went back I never
6:37picked up my work and never went back so
6:40um so I just started to work and
6:43um now I'm 54 so it's been a little bit
6:46of time that I have been working and I
6:48have had uh you know probably the first
6:5110 years of that I had jobs at the same
6:54time you know I worked as I don't know
6:56electrician's assistant or survey or you
6:59know all different kind of doing
7:01Demolition and things like that but um
7:04but then pretty much since the time I
7:07was 34 I had my first art show till now
7:11so 20 years I've been showing and
7:13sustaining myself economically from
7:15showing my work
7:17um and so I've been tremendously
7:19fortunate and tremendously blessed to
7:21have a great variety of opportunities
7:25working with other people you know
7:28working with collaborating with
7:30printmakers or people in foundries or
7:33Studio assistants or curators or you
7:37know like all different situations and
7:40and I've also been enormously privileged
7:42to
7:44um I can just keep changing these things
7:50of
7:52I have no control over that the same way
7:55I have no control over this machine but
7:59um I have no control over it I thought
8:01like I to me I think that the main thing
8:03about being an artist to me is listening
8:06you know is
8:08um I've been making these drawings
8:11um I went to see
8:14um Elizabeth Murray show and I went to
8:16the dinner and Elizabeth Murray was
8:18sitting there at the dinner
8:20um you know and she had had cancer so
8:22she had very short hair and she was
8:23wearing a jacket and um
8:27and I thought of for the painting of
8:29Frida Kahlo of when she cuts her hair
8:31and also like early George Bosley's
8:34paintings and I just like it popped in
8:36my head oh I want to draw Elizabeth
8:38Murray as the Annunciation as the you
8:40know when the Holy Ghost comes in the
8:42room and like you know tell her she's
8:44pregnant and I thought like oh that's an
8:46odd idea to be doing that someone who's
8:48you know 65 or something but I always
8:50like the idea like that you know the
8:53hands being raised to the Holy Ghost and
8:55it's sort of little built like get away
8:57from me get out of here I don't want
8:59this fate and at the same time going
9:01like sort of hail at the same time and
9:04um you know and then I made that and I
9:06thought about it for or I didn't think
9:08about it but I just you know like
9:09periodically would sort of go like how
9:11come I have to be making art like this
9:13and and then I thought oh it's about
9:15being an artist being an artist is
9:17sitting and waiting you know and so for
9:19me uh part of inspiration and things
9:23come from like going upstairs in the
9:25museum here and scrutinizing every
9:27single object as voraciously as I can
9:31and you know part of it is just a kind
9:34of greediness to have experiences and um
9:38you know be able to
9:41uh yeah make as many things
9:46as I can have the opportunity to because
9:48each thing that you make or each
9:51material that you work in
9:53reveals something new and unexpected
9:57um and you know part of it you get to be
9:59in a Continuum of History you get to
10:01have a relationship with the past and
10:03then you get to
10:05resurrect or Revitalize or
10:09re-substantiate or something you get to
10:11breathe
10:13breathe life into things that have been
10:17dormant or that have lost their power or
10:20you know remain still that have become
10:23still and you get to kind of be like a
10:26fluffer kind of fluffing them all up
10:28again you know getting them going and
10:31you know so it's and you know and you
10:33get to be in relationship to other
10:34artists and
10:36um
10:38you know you get to see that you don't
10:40you know like for me I was saying the
10:41main thing is that you don't
10:45um
10:46like you have an idea or an impetus you
10:48know it's like
10:49something comes into your brain or
10:51whatever Emily Dickinson says this
10:53really great thing oh [ __ ] and I wish
10:55I'd written it down something about yeah
10:57it comes from somewhere into the OR
11:00comes into the mind
11:03something like yeah but we don't know
11:05where it comes from but it's but she
11:07says it much nicer than that but but uh
11:10but it is that thing about like catch it
11:12like the origin of ideas or catching
11:14ideas and you know so it's it's
11:16completely informed by the you know
11:18being in the three-dimensional world
11:20like being in the Physical Realm and and
11:23interacting you know I always say that
11:25it's like you know I always say I'm like
11:27a spinster
11:29um
11:31and um
11:33this is this is now you're stuck with me
11:36um
11:37what
11:40oh explain it
11:42oh
11:44um sorry
11:46um okay this one then I made this one
11:49and then I made that one
11:51then I made this slime which is out of
11:53focus
11:55um which was I was given the opportunity
11:58to work at Pilchuck glass School
12:00and um I worked with the Gaffers there
12:05and I had to figure out a way to work
12:07that it was my work so I had to think of
12:10very simple forums to work with and so I
12:12made these glass tiers and
12:15um and then I made a cast of my mother's
12:17feet and it was uh about
12:211989 something like that maybe 1990 and
12:24my sister had just died from Aids in
12:271988. so I thought about my mother
12:30suffering and then about the Virgin Mary
12:33and
12:34um
12:35and so I made this piece called mother's
12:37tears you know and you know because I
12:39thought about like you know when you go
12:40to church my mother would like touch the
12:42feet of the Saints and stuff like that
12:44you don't need to go like in all the
12:46feet are worn down of the Saints from
12:48touching them and stuff and so
12:50um I've always been very
12:52um attracted to
12:55religious iconography and not
12:57necessarily as the dogmatic belief part
13:01of it but the visualization of
13:03spirituality
13:05um the other is like a little Corey
13:07figure
13:08making an offering
13:11um
13:11because I was that's another thing
13:13that's really good to do is even when
13:15you're not in school you can go to
13:18school so I was taking a class A friend
13:21of mine was teaching a class at NYU
13:22about the Parthenon and about
13:25you know her ideas about what the
13:28Figures were doing
13:30um this one on the left hand side is a
13:33fallen Jesus it was a cast or a copy of
13:37a about a four inch
13:40Jesus that I saw in someone's house in
13:43galasteo New Mexico and it came
13:46originally from Mexico and it was this
13:48yeah this I'm always very like one of my
13:51favorite sculptures is the
13:53deposition in the Louvre of the Christ
13:57coming down from the cross and so
14:00um
14:01you know so this is one where it's
14:02Fallen you know where it's it's sort of
14:04collapsing down and it was right after
14:06Anne Hamilton had
14:09um made her piece at the DIA foundation
14:12and I knew they must have a lot of
14:13material of horsehair around so we
14:15called them up and asked if we could
14:17have some horse hair but then I now I
14:19can't remember who it is but
14:21um maybe Leslie dill or another artist
14:24also have friends with had also used a
14:26lot of the horse hair from Ann Hamilton
14:27so I really loved also the idea of
14:29recycling other artists work like taking
14:33that into your own work
14:35um
14:36you know it's the top part is a female
14:39body and the bottom part is the male
14:41body but that was because I was casting
14:43my neighbor
14:45um and then he had to go home halfway
14:47through so we had to make two so it
14:50ended up being you know sort of like
14:51yeah gender bender or stuff or something
14:54but it was really just um you know
14:56completely pragmatic problems but but to
15:00me also that that's the really big part
15:02about you know about
15:03in relationship to listening as an
15:05artist is that you have this impetus you
15:08have this idea of things but then you
15:10get into a relationship with the
15:12physical world and and that's where you
15:16have to let go
15:17of your idea you know like that you get
15:20to be you know that's what I'm saying
15:21about being a spinster it's like that I
15:24like having these like objects with you
15:26know relationship with inanimate objects
15:28but you get to really
15:30um see how Willy you are to be in it and
15:34then see how willing you are to be
15:36responsive to what's actually happening
15:38in the present in the moment you know I
15:40always think painters are much more in
15:42that because they're making a lot of
15:44sculptures just work you know
15:47um
15:52um
15:53this one here on the left I'll just talk
15:55about the left ones and if you guys
15:57could focus then when they're when they
16:00get out of focus This was
16:02um Wendy Whiteman came from the Modern
16:04Museum and said I could have a show in
16:06Queens at the Modern Museum and I
16:07thought hey you know maybe I should wait
16:09till they're back in Manhattan before I
16:11have a show but then she said you can
16:14have a billboard and I thought oh yeah I
16:17really want a billboard and
16:20so so I thought oh I'm gonna make all
16:22this art and relationship to things in
16:24the museum and one of my favorite
16:26paintings there was
16:28um Ari Rousseau is the I don't know you
16:31know it's like the tiger eating the
16:33white Antelope or something like that
16:35and
16:36um somehow in my mind that mixed up with
16:39something about Krishna which doesn't
16:40make any sense and then about like how
16:43to get out of your be like how like how
16:46animals in
16:48um in a kind of shamanistic relationship
16:51give you an opportunity to get out of
16:53self get it like caught out of the self
16:55and so I had these um you know and then
16:58it's also like my um
17:01you know I suppose sort of sexual
17:03Fantasy Life or something like that
17:05adolescent sexual Fantasy Life or
17:07something but you know so I made all
17:09these prints of of
17:12um these lions and animals biting women
17:15to and then I thought oh yeah you can
17:17like how do you get like I always think
17:18about our toes drawings you know when he
17:21just has this sort of stabbing of his
17:23drawings like this um yeah like a little
17:26too much
17:27um emotional investment in what's going
17:29on and um you know but that's the way to
17:32relieve pressure and to let the Spirit
17:36out through you know through the surface
17:38of the body or something like that but
17:40and then these prints were really also
17:43about Courier and Ives because I love
17:45curry and Ives Prince and um
17:48they always are pragmatic in their
17:50Printing and say you know they were
17:52printed on NASA Street they say the
17:54title The Publisher you know the printer
17:57everything and so I made these prints at
17:59Harlan and Weaver on Canal Street so I
18:01put their information and then the title
18:04and then myself has 13 moons publication
18:07which is like my pretend
18:10um printing publication
18:13um
18:14you know and so so you know for each
18:16thing
18:18each thing that you do
18:21or don't do
18:23um oh no that was the right one I'll go
18:25back on that one
18:27um each thing that you do
18:29it doesn't work
18:31um
18:34oh yeah that's fine it doesn't matter
18:36um you know each thing you do
18:39the more you look out in the world the
18:41more and I suppose if
18:44um you know I didn't really go to
18:46college I I am you know like an
18:48accumulating you know person who's
18:50trying to accumulate slowly at education
18:52about the world so I do it a lot through
18:56looking
18:57um and and through Reading
19:00I don't know history sometimes like I
19:02get on sort of Jags about stuff but this
19:04was a Jag about colonial American sort
19:07of material culture things but
19:12um you know that then you have more
19:13resources that you're working for but
19:15working from but that they come from
19:17into very convoluted configurations you
19:21know so to weed out and say oh this is
19:23about this or this I made this like you
19:26make it on a given
19:28moment or day but um
19:34that one
19:36was like a bead a bead a curtain from
19:38Canal Street and like those you know
19:40when they make them sort of uh
19:42iridescent and then there was a figure
19:44behind her that was made in aluminum
19:46with a dress on it
19:48and then there was some other things
19:50behind there that I don't know
19:52what they are
19:55um
19:57this was I think originally when I first
20:00made my slideshow for here I I made one
20:03half all sort of body things like
20:06pre-1990 and then in about 1990 actually
20:12with Claudia Gould I uh when she was at
20:15the Wexner Center we made a show there
20:17and at the Williams college and I Was
20:20preparing for that show and I had a
20:22dream that said get the bird out and I
20:24made this sculpture of a head with a
20:26bird coming out on a string
20:29and after that moment I said oh now this
20:33is what I'm supposed to be paying
20:34attention to is paying attention to
20:36animals and then sort of slowly over the
20:39course of time
20:40animals in relationship to humans and
20:43one was because I'm thinking about
20:461994 I did a residency at Alfred
20:50University and at um
20:53I guess I had done it right before that
20:54but I had started before that but then I
20:57went to Peabody Museum at Harvard and I
21:00started drawing the animals and the
21:01woman one of the scientists there was
21:03talking about the loss of habitat and
21:06the inevitable Extinction of animals
21:09um in relationship to loss of habitat in
21:12the next 50 years or so and I thought oh
21:14this is the this is what I should be
21:16paying attention to now and um
21:19you know and then it's sort of like
21:21someplace along the line got I mean so
21:23this is what I made at Alfred Universe
21:25city was these uh birds eggs I was
21:27working in the glass Department with
21:29students and um and I started making
21:31these um lithos which then and etchings
21:34which turned into the way that now I
21:36make drawings
21:38um you know and then this is about
21:40five or six or seven or eight or nine or
21:42ten years later where it got into this
21:44sort of cul-de-sac of mythological
21:46something or other
21:48um inexplicable mythologies or something
21:50of this piece called Born but these were
21:53also really influenced by um
21:56oh [ __ ] now I can't remember his name
21:58um who made it Rockefeller Center
22:01um The Spooner
22:03Mansion no manship
22:06that's outside of museums you know like
22:08sitting on pedestals out of the museum
22:10so I wanted to make these pieces that
22:12could be like sort of public
22:15um
22:16yeah outdoor public art which is
22:18something that I had like never you know
22:21theoretically growing up with my father
22:23it's something that should have occurred
22:24to me but it never did
22:28these I made yeah so all of this thing
22:30this is from the early mid 90s too it's
22:33um
22:34I got a residency at The Mattress
22:37Factory in Pittsburgh and I went to the
22:40Carnegie Mellon Museum where they had a
22:43lending library of dead birds and so
22:45like I you know came with this big
22:47plastic
22:48you know that cooler containers full of
22:51like birds and then I got to make all
22:53these Bird drawings from that and that
22:55kind of got me on a quite extensive bird
22:57trip for a while but
23:00um
23:01I went to Morocco sometime in the mid
23:0480s and from that you know I learned
23:06about wall tapestry
23:08and that thing about what blanketing
23:11means like what what does something that
23:13hovers between the wall and um and the
23:17space mean like that
23:19um that space for thinking about drawing
23:22um or if you go up to the met in New
23:24York the rooms where they would have the
23:26large Buddhas or kuanians and then the
23:29paintings on the on the wall so this
23:31like to have something between
23:33three-dimensional and two-dimensional
23:34representation and and what happens what
23:39what happens when you put those two
23:41things in proximity
23:42um to one another like in terms of a
23:44kind of vibration or what or what the
23:47difference is between making like a
23:49two-dimensional representation of
23:51three-dimensional reputation that's why
23:53I love the show here at the ICA of Barry
23:56levay's work because he deals
23:58extensively with that
24:00pictorial space and three-dimensional
24:03space
24:04but so that was something about that
24:07which is a lot like you know like if you
24:10think of all the drawings which I'll
24:12show some of them that I make it is
24:14always about something about a
24:16blanketing
24:17um and then this one that's out of focus
24:22is I made a
24:25in about 83 93 I was invited by the
24:29angavanda Quince Museum in Vienna the
24:32Museum of Applied Arts to make it
24:35installation or something and um in that
24:38room in that museum he the curator of
24:41the director had invited artists to make
24:44the installation and in one room which
24:45was about a 40 foot Cube he had invited
24:49um
24:51Donald Judd to do an installation of a
24:53small porcelain cabinet so it's just a
24:55cube inside of this enormous room but
24:58then they had this table of a dessert
25:00like a long you know
25:03table with mirrors on it and then they
25:06sort of little frolicking banquet
25:08decorations at a porcelain and I had
25:11never seen anything like that
25:13um and you know so it was also something
25:16that resonated inside me for about 15
25:18years or so
25:20and then I was given the opportunity to
25:22make a show in Venice at the quarinistan
25:25palia which is a House Museum and I had
25:28this idea to make everything
25:30um sort of like Fractured Fairy Tale uh
25:33colonial American squatting
25:37um this Italian Palazzo because you know
25:39I thought like Italy sort of Venice is
25:42sort of on its way out when the U.S
25:44Colonial thing is beginning to
25:47um take form and so but in any case I
25:50made this porcelain uh I made a table
25:52out of liquor boxes that we grained and
25:55then I made a
25:57porcelain figures from
26:00Pietro longi paintings which were which
26:03were this also you know it's the
26:05beginning of the time of creating
26:07Domesticity and the idea ideas about
26:10Domesticity that that we live in today
26:12you know and and um yeah the
26:15representation of the domestic
26:18um so you know there are all these sort
26:19of mothers and children doing
26:22this and that various activities and
26:25they're very you know and he made tons
26:26of them you know as uh he was a very
26:29popular painting and he just went from
26:30you know you could see he went from
26:32house to house and sort of slightly put
26:33on different heads on the people
26:36um
26:36so it was really
26:40um
26:41you know great to to play to play to
26:44make to make work in relationship to
26:47other artists work which I think is
26:49something like I was much less conscious
26:52of when I was younger than I am now how
26:55attractive it is to me now and I you
26:57know that's something about age that I
26:58find odd but um you know I see that with
27:01a lot of artists
27:02um that the older they get the more they
27:04are in relationship to the past but you
27:07know For Better or Worse maybe but
27:10um these are uh I went to someone's
27:14house and their friends had given them
27:16this dead
27:17um freeze-dried deer
27:19for a wedding present and so I saw it
27:24and uh you know said oh maybe I needed
27:26to borrow that and took it away on my
27:28bicycle for a couple of months and and
27:30made this print of it to give it was
27:33girls who had gone to Skowhegan that I
27:36had taught and so I made a print to give
27:38them a present sort of a present because
27:40they were really great you know it was a
27:42wonderful time for my life
27:45um this is a sculpture I'm not talking
27:46about those ones that's the Holy Ghost
27:48of course
27:50um
27:53um
27:55the one on the left here is um
28:00uh because of scanning now because of
28:04computers you know one can play in
28:05animation so
28:07um I like this idea I made a drawing of
28:10a girl's head
28:12made a lithograph and then we printed
28:16that and then we went out in the
28:17backyard at ulae in Long Island and
28:20picked leaves and then made these
28:22bushwire
28:24um leaves printed on the paper and so we
28:27made an addition but then so part of the
28:29Edition was static was like the basic
28:32Matrix was always the same and then
28:35um everything else moved and then we
28:37scanned them all and made an animation a
28:40random like a computer generated random
28:43pixelation so yeah so she's sort of
28:46standing there like flickering a little
28:48bit from the hand painting and then all
28:51the wind you know it's like the leaves
28:54are all blowing around the wind but I
28:55like that idea that um for me it's
28:58really interesting to
29:01um
29:01use one kind of information to generate
29:05another like use painting or not
29:07painting not painting at all but um
29:11sculpture
29:12to generate drawing to generate
29:16photographs to or to make prints to make
29:18animation you know like to keep
29:20cannibalizing and turning it you know
29:22it's like like keep turning and looking
29:24under the Rock and seeing if there's a
29:26little more there that you didn't know
29:27about
29:29um
29:36um I don't know what what can I call it
29:39besides that
29:40investigating but
29:44tell me another word to call it
29:49you know it's a little bit like noise
29:50and self-cannibalizing so you know it's
29:52like you're not like a rat in the Trap
29:54gnawing its tail off or something like
29:57that you know it's a little bit it has
29:59that like a cyclical nature to it
30:02because you know often when you make
30:03something 10 years later you'll like
30:05wake up one day and realizing like oh
30:06you're just making the exact same thing
30:08that you made 10 years ago or 20 years
30:09ago and that you know your
30:11preoccupations are really quite like
30:14they can sort of take on these different
30:16guises but it's it's quite consistent
30:19and literal in a way
30:22um
30:22and and linear to some depressing ways
30:26um what you're really up to you know but
30:28often you don't see it you know until
30:30afterwards like I always say like a
30:32little bit my work is like a protection
30:34racket for me you know it's like it's
30:36like my moat around me or something and
30:40it's um you know sort of healing it's a
30:42place where I get to
30:44heal ruptures in my life you know but
30:46that's like my very like personal thing
30:48and then you know and then I'm
30:49interested in you know
30:52um expanding print making or something
30:54like that you know but but but
30:57basically you know it just it keeps it
31:00keeps unfolding and changing itself and
31:03and being
31:06um
31:07often self-referential or or like a rock
31:11Gathering Moss you know gather it keeps
31:13moving but it keeps Gathering and it has
31:15little bits that are still attached to
31:18it from older work or from other sources
31:22um
31:25that one works so easily
31:28um
31:29this was a great thing I got to do which
31:32um was really fun I
31:35I met because of working in Vienna I met
31:39kupelo Blau wolf Creeks from
31:41architectural firm in Vienna and
31:45um it was right at a moment it was right
31:47when Claudia was in Ohio and it was
31:49right at a moment because of the Wexner
31:52Center and things people were in a kind
31:54of freak out
31:56um
31:57frightened her about how architecture
32:00was going to usurp art and you know how
32:02Architects wanted to be artists and
32:04somehow we had to like fight back or
32:06something like that and you know and I
32:09thought like oh forget it you know like
32:11let's play footsie instead you know and
32:14so I I was asked at the um
32:18you know contemporary Museum in La if I
32:21wanted to make something in this room
32:23and it was a 40-foot cubic and by uh
32:27izazaki I guess and um
32:30and
32:31no I am pay and um
32:35and then um so I asked wolf Pricks if he
32:39would come make something to for me you
32:41know to to work together and then he
32:44told somehow he told somebody that oh I
32:46was Kiki somebody who can make something
32:48with a circle you know which was like a
32:51complete nightmare because the circle is
32:53actually like one of the most difficult
32:55forms to make something with but then I
32:58thought about you know the
32:59constellations the animals in the
33:01constellations and so I made this I
33:04think there's another slide of it so you
33:06can see his structure but I made this um
33:08circular constellation of maybe the
33:11Northern Hemisphere at that time but
33:13just the animals and then the stars and
33:16then I cast uh animal scat from New
33:19Mexico you know that I found out on the
33:21ground in the winter time and we cast
33:23like you know each little poop
33:24individually and put them together you
33:26know they're probably like five
33:27different kinds of things and so I
33:30wanted it like a kind of collapsing like
33:31the Earth like I always think about this
33:33you know sort of like the blanket thing
33:35like the space between
33:37you know where the earth and the sky
33:39touch that
33:41um
33:41you know like that energy or something
33:44but and then he made a big tower but I
33:47also uh the stars were made by a glass
33:50Caster you know we made the models and
33:52then she cast them and then
33:54um the animals were all made
33:57um in Venice by amen and Pinot senoretto
34:00who was one of the great solid glass
34:03workers in the world and so at the time
34:06it was like the biggest Menagerie ever
34:08made in history and
34:10um you know I thought like you know
34:12they're sort of like that in a nickel
34:13someplace like it doesn't mean anything
34:15it has no meaning it has no but I
34:18thought like it still has
34:20um you know I'm very attracted to work
34:23um Pat steer has made some things in
34:25relationship to it or Jeff wall or in
34:28the mid-1800s of this sort of Panorama
34:31idea or the idea of the spectacle art as
34:34spectacle or processionals like
34:36spectacleness when you're looking at
34:38things and so this had this had this
34:40sort of a little bit larger here
34:43than likeness to it that was very
34:45attractive
34:50oh those are that big that big
34:53like between that that big and that big
34:56you know the snake's probably five feet
34:58and the other things are that big
35:00what were you saying
35:03oh on the other side
35:06um yeah let me see if I can get them
35:08back
35:10um they were
35:12um this was in the early 80s I guess 79
35:1480.
35:16um
35:17you know I was I had a boyfriend who
35:20worked at the Strand Bookstore and he
35:22used to bring me books and I was like
35:24completely phobic against owning books I
35:26didn't want to have any and but he
35:27brought me a Gray's Anatomy and before
35:30that I got that Gray's Anatomy I was
35:32like painting pictures of his guitar you
35:34know I was like oh I'm in love you know
35:36so
35:43um and I started like you know then I
35:45had Gray's Anatomy and then I was in
35:46love with that but but it's you know
35:49because they said like
35:50you know there's like 3 000 inches of
35:53skin on the human body and I could you
35:55know like the approximate average and
35:57I'd go like oh who's average is that
35:59white men's average or you know I said
36:01everybody in the world's average or you
36:03know so I made all of these pieces in
36:05relationship to that and so this was
36:07about the pints of blood in the body and
36:11I originally had them set up of uh pins
36:15as
36:17you know like three and two and one it
36:19was called game time it was just on
36:21little shelf and it's called game time
36:22because it was when we were at war with
36:24Nicaragua and I thought you know it was
36:27um people were very Cavalier in the
36:31um expelling or whatever of people's
36:33blood around the world and
36:37yeah and so I wanted to make a piece
36:39about that but this was before
36:42um I bought it to the show so I had to
36:44have all this blood in the freezer
36:47um
36:48you know in ball jars and I I sealed it
36:51with silicone because I didn't really
36:52know what was going to happen but but I
36:55used to live in the Lower East Side of
36:57New York and when I moved there there
37:00were you know many butchers and things
37:03like that so I just bought gallons of um
37:06you know Pig's blood I didn't really I
37:09somebody asked me to be in some oh
37:10benefit the other day and then I thought
37:12oh maybe I can take out a pint of my
37:14blood and send it to them but I didn't
37:18know I thought I'm so sick of them but
37:20but
37:21um you know it we'll see but then yeah
37:23because I thought oh pigs but like Pig
37:24said it was just I didn't mean it
37:26literally you know it's just metaphoric
37:28I mean that's the thing too is like I
37:30think for my work for the most part I
37:32meant things in very metaphoric ways I
37:35didn't really mean them or someplace
37:37between literal and metaphoric but
37:40um
37:41you know it wasn't so uh like in a
37:44linear didactic way that I want this to
37:46be about this or that
37:48um these are this thing between painting
37:51and or between drawing and sculpture
37:55um which is I guess yeah the traditional
37:57occupation of painting or something is
37:59in that space But so and and these
38:02things come from
38:03um
38:04from print making from making polymer
38:07plates and then pulling waxes which are
38:10like very low three-dimensional plates
38:12for uh used in photo engraving and
38:15things and then I pull waxes off of them
38:18and then cut them out in various shapes
38:19so that I can get this very low relief
38:21like I'm very attracted to like Chinese
38:24tombstones or up here you had all these
38:26glyphs you know or Repose work this was
38:29a lot of repose work or or very low
38:32relief sculpture
38:34um and then and then the bird parts were
38:36all drawn in clay and covered with wax
38:39and cut out and then cast and
38:42um these were meant they're a little bit
38:44from the crowns of Kuan Yin
38:48um like she is always portrayed you know
38:50she's the bodhisattva the avalo tarkish
38:52avara of compassion and Buddhism and
38:56um she's always portrayed with the crown
38:58with the Buddha in the center but I I
39:01like this very high crown that she wears
39:04and so I made a lot of pieces someplace
39:06in relationship to that
39:09so you know like
39:13um you know for me I'm just someone who
39:15is slightly
39:16um voracious and curious and you know if
39:21you go to museums like even every once
39:23in a while there's a lot of information
39:25in them
39:26um you know like I thought we'll have to
39:27come back tomorrow and go upstairs again
39:29and like you know really spy at
39:32everything
39:33um
39:34yeah
39:35those are you know girls flying around
39:37the ceiling this one is this was my
39:41first uh outdoor public second outdoor
39:44published but a real public sculpture is
39:46my first real public sculpture and it's
39:47a fountain in San Diego at the Stuart
39:49collection and it's a woman standing
39:53um on a tall column which was a dead
39:56tree that we cast and then
39:59um
40:00she was made like an echo Shay because
40:02it was right next to the medical
40:03building and so and then she had water
40:05coming out of her wrist sort of falling
40:07down which then the medical people
40:09thought it was about suicide and were
40:10really pissed off
40:12um and but I showed you know because
40:14they had these wonderful old paper mache
40:16echochets that you know so I carved a
40:19little bit the
40:20um
40:21musculature of the arms and the legs and
40:24um but then at the last I thought it was
40:26a little plain and at the last moment I
40:28put on this Star constellation
40:32um a Virgo I think and it was also it
40:34was made it was a cast of a woman who
40:36was uh not not a good friend of mine but
40:39somebody I had used for sculptures a lot
40:41and she was dying so I thought it was
40:43nice to be making this sort of her into
40:46this sky
40:48Sky goddess raining down or something
40:52next to the medical school
40:54um these are
40:56old things
41:00um
41:01yeah this is
41:03um
41:05you know sometime in between two days
41:08this is also like a complete
41:10cannibalizing rehashing of work like I
41:12made a sculpture I had a show in um
41:15in Israel at the Israel Museum and I
41:18tried to make everything in the show in
41:20relationship to their collection
41:22and to the Bible you know something
41:24Bible things and so this was originally
41:27a girl Stan I cast a girl I don't know I
41:30think her mother worked at the Museum
41:31and I cast her like a eight or nine year
41:34old girl standing up and then I made an
41:36enormous coat or like big enormous cloth
41:41felt with Repose Stars sewn on it like
41:44um like some of the Torah covers that I
41:47had seen in the museum but it was
41:49supposed to be like the young virgin
41:50Mary so it's like she's standing with
41:52the sky because you know I always think
41:54how like one version of the Virgin Mary
41:57is like the continuation of Isis is like
42:00the posturing of Isis holding
42:02chorus and then others I always think is
42:05the continuation of Nuit of the Egyptian
42:07Sky goddess you know having all the star
42:10like embodying the stars
42:13um
42:14but so and then
42:16um so I bought her home and then at some
42:18point or other later reconfigured her
42:20into this this piece
42:23um is was one of my favorite pieces I
42:25was asked to make a show in Switzerland
42:28and I thought oh Switzerland they have
42:31all those colored chocolates like I had
42:33just been to Venice and you know they
42:34have all those like green chocolate and
42:36pink chocolate and stuff in Venice that
42:38you know I obviously like I had like my
42:40eye it's a hard time getting past the
42:43stores looking at and so I thought oh
42:45I'm gonna get this like a chocolate
42:47company to sponsor my work and I'm going
42:50to make this like body as leaking
42:53orifice Fountain like Fountains of life
42:56you know and then the guy said like
42:58that's not going to happen and so
43:01so then I said okay I'm just going to
43:04make it all these different fluids
43:05coming out like right all for about five
43:07years I made work just about like leaky
43:10orifices like you know the
43:12uncontrollability of Life sort of going
43:16hither
43:17you know and and
43:19um and yeah not being able to kind of
43:22contain it or contain oneself and you
43:24know just
43:26um sort of the messiness of life or
43:27something like that and I did it but
43:28then they looked really bad I mean they
43:30look like really like your worst fantasy
43:32of of
43:34polychrome you know Antiquities or
43:36something like that and
43:38um you know and so then I just made it
43:41that he sperm was dripping down his legs
43:45and her milk was running down the her
43:48front of her body and it was like about
43:50you know being thwarted it was like two
43:53people
43:55um who were thwarted
43:57um
43:58yeah who are like isolated and thwarted
44:01um
44:02it's sort of going nowhere but um and I
44:05made that
44:07I guess that was the second the second
44:09really figurative work I made the first
44:11one was a virgin Mary echochet and then
44:14this was the second one
44:18foreign
44:20this is also one like a
44:24very this one is just a flat sculpture
44:27of you're working with computers uh you
44:30know I made a
44:31something like a moon and stars and I
44:33made the moon and then somehow we pushed
44:35a button and all the stars attached
44:36itself to the Moon in random pattern and
44:40I thought like that's also you know like
44:42a really big part of making one's work
44:45is taking advantage of what is given to
44:48you and
44:49um you know to
44:52to yeah to be
44:55um you know to see what happens and see
44:57the generosity of you know giving
44:59moments neither one of these you can see
45:02oh this is I was telling this girl
45:05earlier about print making the thing
45:07that I just discovered that I'm really
45:08excited about
45:09um
45:10at the moment is that I do a lot of
45:13etching I do a lot of small like fussy
45:15fussy lines like completely obsessive
45:17that take months on end to make them and
45:20um and it just occurred to me like two
45:23months ago that I could blow that line
45:24up you know so you can see here like and
45:26it's projected it's you know I don't
45:28know what that's like 10 12 feet high or
45:30something like that you can really you
45:32know if you went up to it you could
45:33really see each line and so I started
45:35now scanning my prints and blowing them
45:39up large and or and some in on glass
45:42working with them on glass but then some
45:45just as like sort of large prints on a
45:48wall but
45:49um you know I think like the thing
45:51that's really great about etching is
45:52that you get to have this like extremely
45:55intimate
45:57um relationship to what you're doing and
46:00that you know each line is so fine but
46:02then it's it's
46:04um yeah for me it's very exciting to see
46:05that then you can take that
46:07you know turn it around again and also
46:09take it in the computer and change the
46:11you know add some more Ruffles on or any
46:14you know any go in any direction you
46:16want
46:17um
46:20this is
46:23oh
46:25all right I'll take a sip of water
46:28um this was
46:31also you can tell me to stop talking
46:33when you want oh
46:36if anyone's got a clock or something
46:39um
46:39this was one of the first
46:42uh
46:43I guess the first I actually I started
46:46making these sperm at experimental glass
46:48Workshop in New York and then
46:51I wanted to make this stomach and a guy
46:53said if I made him a stomach had a
46:56styrofoam for a Pepto-Bismol commercial
46:58he'd blow me the stomach so he did
47:02but I had to get linoleum on my floor
47:04after that because I realized that there
47:06are some materials you don't want to
47:07work with in your house and styrofoam is
47:10one of them
47:11um
47:12but this was I made a show at the
47:15kitchen and Amy talbin who was the
47:17curator there her brother was a doctor
47:20and he told me she told me about how her
47:23brother had all these x-rays about
47:24people that swallow things compulsively
47:26you're like and you know when I was a
47:28kid we used to swallow a string and then
47:29pull it back up our throats and think
47:31that was like super cool but you know
47:34like other people like continue on and
47:36swallow you know like chairs and I know
47:39but you know but but
47:42um you know like pens and paper clips
47:45and things like that and you know I
47:47don't like you know borderline I
47:50wouldn't say compulsive overeating but
47:52I'm a borderline I'm certainly an
47:53overeater or something so it's something
47:55that I have thought a lot about in my
47:57life had to think about
47:59um
48:00you know about like trying to consume
48:01what does it mean trying to consume the
48:03world you know but that these people
48:05were sort of literally doing I was doing
48:07it emotionally maybe but they were doing
48:09it like really you know literally not
48:12figuratively and so originally I made
48:14the stomach because I wanted to jam it
48:16with things but you know then when I saw
48:18it I thought oh it's so beautiful just
48:20like that and it was part of also this
48:22this period of time about leaky orifices
48:25and you're like thinking about like
48:27you're just a whole you know with sort
48:29of like a big membrane of
48:32information traveling through it
48:35those are three thousand square inches
48:38of skin from that same time period
48:44and that was just in half because I
48:47couldn't get it out of my apartment on
48:48the fifth floor or otherwise and
48:50actually that's why it became a paper
48:51artist also it was because I lived on
48:54the fifth floor and that's why I got an
48:56art career because I made things out of
48:58paper but it was just because I lived on
49:00the fifth floor
49:01um
49:03so these are also they sort of cut out
49:06low relief like drawn on wax
49:09animals called crash which are each one
49:12has a um
49:16sunflower that goes in their eyes like
49:18like the dead looking out
49:21um
49:22and that
49:24something else
49:26the other side is a complete Secret
49:30this is another one of these things
49:32which you can't really see it's a figure
49:33in a Thicket
49:35and it's the same thing as taking a
49:37drawing like I go to my Foundry I take a
49:39drawing and I go out in New Jersey to
49:43Johnson digital Don Johnson and yet it
49:47would scan in my drawings and then they
49:50vectorize them in the computer and they
49:53like fix it up a little bit and then we
49:54have it laser cut water or maybe laser
49:57water cut out of bronze and
50:02um and a patina them but yeah so you can
50:05make yeah just this thing between like
50:08hovering something hovering
50:11um
50:18you know for me to
50:20um
50:23I'm really interested in um in multiples
50:27in small scale sculpture I haven't
50:29really gotten to large scale sculpture
50:30yet but I'm very interested in in small
50:33in Intimate objects you know in terms of
50:35print making like you know that postage
50:37stamps and you know things printed on
50:40your you know cell phone or whatever is
50:43a scale of printed making that has its
50:45own Integrity that also very small
50:47objects you know paper weights and door
50:50stops and
50:52um you know any tiny little knick-knacky
50:55thing you can think around your house
50:56has the you know has a completely
50:58fascinating history and and in terms of
51:01uh uh sculptural expression
51:06um you know each scale that you work in
51:08teaches you something different and and
51:10and also the thing about making
51:12multiples like making things that are
51:14always part of a group of artists called
51:16collaborative projects in the late 70s
51:18early 80s and
51:20one of the things that we did together
51:22was make stores of artist multiples and
51:25you know so I made like t-shirts and
51:27that's how I got into uh print making
51:29but
51:31um
51:32you know also to make jewelry and or
51:36these are lamps that I just made of
51:39moths and stars
51:43you know but that like you know for me
51:45also when I was younger I was always the
51:47most interested like I had this fantasy
51:49you know having grown up in the art
51:51world I was like a little weary of it
51:53all
51:54um and Leary of it all but
51:57um I always thought oh I'm gonna go to
51:59Art to go to Macy's like I want to go be
52:01in a department store I want to make
52:02sheets in department stores and my big
52:04ambition in life at that time was to
52:06come work at the fabric Workshop which
52:09is one of yeah one of the few things
52:11like I have that's also for me is that I
52:14have had very little
52:16idea of what I want like I thought I
52:18mean other than like oh I'm gonna make
52:19this thing today like you know a vision
52:22of like how I want my life to look or
52:24how I think it should look or what it
52:26should be like or I don't have so much
52:29desire like that um
52:31but the fabric Workshop was one place I
52:34wanted to have as a desk it was one of
52:36my few destinations in my life and I was
52:38very happy to have had the opportunity
52:40to go there this is my first glass piece
52:43uh which were these sperms which we we
52:46put fingerprints on and we made each one
52:48individual you know because I think like
52:50oh you're one in millions and they're
52:53all like good so I mean it you know it's
52:55actually because it's so extraordinary I
52:57was making a piece with David vonarovich
52:59and we went out some guy got us into
53:02some medical place and and that when I
53:05went out there the guy asked me if I
53:07wanted to look at slow-moving sperm I
53:09went like oh yeah you know
53:12every day
53:14but but
53:16um you know someone like look under the
53:17microscope and then go these sperm are
53:20too slow that they're never going to
53:23impregnate you know and I don't I don't
53:24really know what that they did to you
53:26know they tell the people to stop
53:27wearing tight blue jeans or something
53:28like that I don't know what it was
53:31um exactly that changed it but but it
53:34was incredible to see something alive
53:36you know like to be looking in a
53:38microscope and see life force and then
53:40uh when I went to the glass Workshop I
53:43saw shot Crystal which is like a very
53:46optically pure glass with a very high
53:47lead content and it was like you know it
53:50emanated light like
53:53um the sperm did and you know for me
53:55that's been a big part of a lot of my
53:58material choices working with Nepal
54:00papers or working with gompy papers
54:04um you know working with sculpturally
54:06with paper in general because it has the
54:07translucency that skin has or uh working
54:11with glass us
54:13as a material the same thing that it has
54:15that it mimics skin you know which is
54:18our you know one of our spaces of life
54:21that we you know associate
54:24um this is a
54:26lithographic print it's about that size
54:28I suppose it was
54:31um
54:32I think I made I I have a friend of mine
54:35who
54:36um I asked if she would represent San
54:38Jose if I started making things with
54:40sanjunofiev and the Wolf she was a
54:43patron saint of Paris and
54:46um she said I was allowed to do anything
54:47I wanted with her as long as I didn't
54:49make her hairy so I made that born piece
54:53I made her coming out of the deer and
54:56then I think of another one I made her
54:57coming out of a wolf and that I made her
54:59holding a deer and I made all these
55:01things but I got into the Little Red
55:03Riding Hood thing I don't for some other
55:05weird reason but
55:07um
55:08but then I thought oh when the
55:10grandmother and the girl are cut out of
55:13the wolf you know and are standing there
55:16like that's such a strange image like if
55:18you take it out of the context of the
55:20story and I had uh read this book
55:23um called the wild saragasa sea
55:26um was it Gene Rhys genius and
55:29it was tremendously influential on me
55:32because it was about you know taking a
55:34story and then
55:37telling the story before that story and
55:39you know I thought people do that a lot
55:41in literature but they don't do it so
55:43much in art like that that you could
55:45take
55:46an image and take it out of its
55:49pictorial
55:51um
55:52you know continuity or whatever and have
55:55it Vivid have it live in some other
55:57narrative you know that you could change
55:59the narrative you could start subverting
56:01the narrative and that that somehow why
56:03I got in this Little Red Riding Hood
56:04stuff but but I liked this image of the
56:07girl coming out of the um
56:11you know out of the wolf the girl and
56:12the grandmother coming out of the wolf
56:14and then um and then I thought oh that's
56:16also like the image of the Virgin Mary
56:18on the moon you know that same like a
56:20vertical horizontal and a vertical
56:22together
56:23um
56:25because that that's the most interesting
56:27thing to me like if I would go to school
56:30now I would study you know material
56:32culture and
56:34um
56:35yeah maybe like the history of
56:37pictorial images of Imaging
56:41changing around you know like how one
56:43thing one time something means something
56:45and then it takes on a whole other
56:47attributes of another belief system I
56:50find that completely fascinating
56:52um well these are made at the same time
56:55with coins I became a coin collector
56:58um because because I started collecting
57:00coins defaced coins coins with holes in
57:03them because they're part of women's
57:04decorative history and women's economic
57:07history you know because traditionally
57:09in many cultures women sewed you know
57:12put nails into coins which like
57:15offensively defaces them it makes them
57:17have no value but is the family's wealth
57:21like so so I thought that was sort of an
57:23interesting space and I started making
57:25them and then somebody got me a little
57:27bit into making them with gold coins and
57:29I thought that's a little out of my
57:30league so I started selling them as
57:33multiples and then out of that I started
57:36making jewelry which I've been doing for
57:38about 10 years now
57:41oh yeah this is one of you have with the
57:43deer
57:50oh it sounds like rats
57:53sorry
57:55um
57:57um I'll say something about this one
57:59because this was a big deal for me this
58:01piece this was like in a certain way the
58:03one on the right the beginning of my
58:05work
58:07which was I had spent a summer in Berlin
58:10with the artist friend of mine Ryman
58:12Kumar and he gave me like a little room
58:14to live in and
58:16um and I made all these uh ceramic
58:18pieces and I made all this rib cage that
58:20I was going to tie together and I came
58:23back to New York and I think in in
58:26um
58:27when we fired then they all broke and or
58:30a lot of them broke and then I came back
58:33to New York and then I was with another
58:34friend of mine on the bus going downtown
58:36and he was saying like nobody's ever
58:38going to take you girl serious because
58:39you're just making your work out of
58:41cardboard and stuff and you know most
58:43people I knew made their work out of
58:44cardboard because that was rarely
58:46available on the streets that I got
58:48really angry you know because he was
58:50saying like you know your work falls
58:51apart it's not substantial and it's not
58:53you know made the way it's supposed to
58:55be and and then I sort of said like [ __ ]
58:58you now you're going to pay for it and
59:02um and so I went home and I glued my
59:04broken ribs together you know I thought
59:05if I have to be a rib to begin with you
59:08know um I'll take you know I'll take it
59:10I'll kind of stick them all back
59:12together make this thing and then I
59:14thought now I'm gonna make everything
59:15like sort of precarious and fragile and
59:18tenuous and um sort of just you know
59:22contingent on the circumstance and um
59:24you know and then for quite a long time
59:27that was a very big impetus in my work
59:29but it was like but it gave me the idea
59:31that you use your deficits you know that
59:33everything that works against you you
59:36Embrace and you go like yeah never mind
59:40I won't curse
59:42um
59:45this is a piece called uh like second
59:49choice which was like Factory seconds
59:51you know it was
59:53um you know probably like 1990 something
59:56like that 1989 1990
59:59um
59:59and some reason people were talking
1:00:01about like
1:00:02you know there was going to be this
1:00:04enormous black markets in organs and
1:00:06people are going to steal organs all
1:00:07over the world like you know like a
1:00:09little bit which is true to some extent
1:00:12but then also a little bit like America
1:00:14when they get into these like hysteria
1:00:16like hysterious about things
1:00:19um and you know and so then I thought
1:00:21about oh yes there's going to be all
1:00:22these sort of then the second choice
1:00:24organs getting dumped into other
1:00:26people's bodies so I made all of these
1:00:28abdominal chest cavities and then just
1:00:31sort of dumped organs in but they were
1:00:32all made from pressed clay molds from
1:00:35looking at votive Greek and Roman votive
1:00:38sculptures and press you know like I
1:00:40mean the whole history of the world half
1:00:43of it we know also that was the thing
1:00:44too that when this person was
1:00:45criticizing me I thought
1:00:48we know the world through Ceramics
1:00:50history of you know through Ceramics
1:00:52through things that
1:00:54um you know that often what appears to
1:00:57have no substantialness or Integrity in
1:01:01the end is what lasts the longest like
1:01:03people in America also then get on this
1:01:04big anti-bronze kick which is one of my
1:01:08pet peeves because you know the because
1:01:11bronze is traditionally a war material
1:01:13so it's traditionally been recycled so
1:01:15you know like every war till now
1:01:18basically you know people gave all their
1:01:20parlor sculptures all everything they
1:01:22all their jewelry everything they own
1:01:24and melt it all down to make armaments
1:01:26and so
1:01:28um that there really isn't
1:01:31like a holding history of you know we're
1:01:33just lucky of what metals have lasted
1:01:35whereas things that weren't
1:01:37traditionally recycled
1:01:39um
1:01:40we get to still see
1:01:42like like glass or Ceramics so and even
1:01:46paper or wax you know you have
1:01:49you know great amounts of Egyptian waxes
1:01:52and things like that
1:01:54um this was I was trying to make
1:01:57was it with Jason
1:01:59um you know those guys going under the
1:02:01sheet with like sneaking in with the
1:02:04sheep and
1:02:06um and then I made it and my friend said
1:02:08oh you made a goat and I was really
1:02:11pissed off that he's a minute ago
1:02:13because it didn't look like a goat at
1:02:15all it looked like a sheep but then I
1:02:16thought oh that's a much better idea
1:02:18I'll turn it into a goat because I am a
1:02:20Capricorn and I thought I'm tied to my
1:02:22nature you know like I'm like I'm just
1:02:25um
1:02:26yeah stuck being me but um so I made
1:02:29this sculpture of this woman tied under
1:02:31this goat sneaking in
1:02:38um that's an outdoor sculpture that's an
1:02:41indoor sculpture but this is an outdoor
1:02:43sculpture that this indoor sculpture
1:02:45came from Delancey Street you know and I
1:02:48was walking
1:02:49um down the street and I found this
1:02:52rubber hand in like from you know like
1:02:54Halloween hand in the gutter and I came
1:02:56home brought it home and put some of the
1:02:58water from my fish tank in it and it
1:03:00grew algae all over it and
1:03:03um
1:03:05you know it was because my father died
1:03:07really and I was thinking like you know
1:03:09life grows on death like that we consume
1:03:12we consume life
1:03:15to live but that we you know kill the
1:03:17things in the process of doing that you
1:03:19know even carrots and things
1:03:22um
1:03:26these are just things they must be
1:03:28towards the end now I think
1:03:31these are printed drawing drawings where
1:03:33they're you know where I make a print
1:03:35and then
1:03:37um
1:03:38photolithoprint and then collage things
1:03:41you know and I like the same thing that
1:03:42I can take and those are all to me in my
1:03:45mind
1:03:46like cartoons for stained glass painting
1:03:50which
1:03:51periodically when I'm lucky I get to do
1:03:58this stuff stuff and more stuff
1:04:10this was these things came from um
1:04:13prints that I made at ulae
1:04:15because when I went there
1:04:18um Bill Goldson was the director or
1:04:20whatever he told me don't bring anything
1:04:22just bring yourself
1:04:24and you know I am like someone who can't
1:04:26stand being told what to do so then I
1:04:28thought okay now also now you're gonna
1:04:30pay for it so like for the first 12
1:04:32years or something I only made images of
1:04:35myself you know just to bug him but you
1:04:38know it worked out okay
1:04:41USB he's very accommodating to my
1:04:45you know
1:04:48oh this this I just showed because I
1:04:51liked
1:04:52um that
1:04:55I got to have a retrospective
1:04:58two years ago at the Walker and it
1:05:00traveled around a bit but
1:05:02what was really exciting for me was that
1:05:04we made this sort of chronological show
1:05:08you know just sipping around but then I
1:05:10got a room in the center like a curio
1:05:12cabinet
1:05:14and um and that way I could make these
1:05:17juxtapositions and narratives for myself
1:05:20so these were two sculptures one of
1:05:22Usher and one of a flapper and then a
1:05:25that bird holding the coin and then the
1:05:27ground of it was all covered with worms
1:05:29that I had made at a Sculpey
1:05:31but for me in installing things it's
1:05:34always really important to cut the
1:05:37relationships between things you know so
1:05:40that your mind is more free you know so
1:05:42that you can or like that you have a
1:05:44variety of materials
1:05:46together
1:05:47um
1:05:50this is a nice one too this one was my I
1:05:53had a cat for 15 years that you know
1:05:55told me what to do and
1:05:59um then it died and so I made these
1:06:01photographs of myself like I had wanted
1:06:03to make a pie and you know I would like
1:06:06catch my cat in the house and I'd like
1:06:08sit there and have my friend take a
1:06:10picture of me and like you know the cat
1:06:12looked fat and healthy and I looked fat
1:06:15and healthy and uh you know it just
1:06:17didn't work like it wasn't it didn't
1:06:19work but then like the second the cat
1:06:21died I was like oh okay now's our moment
1:06:23you know and um so then like I was like
1:06:27crying my eyes out I said I got my
1:06:30sister I said oh no I have my cat but
1:06:32then I wrapped my cat up and put in a
1:06:34little basket and brought them down to
1:06:35my print shop and I called up and I said
1:06:37get a plate ready you know what and then
1:06:39I put the cat on the plate and I traced
1:06:41it out so that I'd have the right size
1:06:43then I drew you know I drew on the plate
1:06:46from it and then then I brought him home
1:06:49and then you know I buried him
1:06:51eventually but um
1:06:53but that was then I made all of these
1:06:56prints I mean the unfortunate thing is
1:06:58my poor mother died now and so like now
1:07:00she's become my my latest victim but of
1:07:04drawing pictures of her but she would
1:07:07find it completely amusing
1:07:09um you know to be my Victim so you know
1:07:12nothing would have given her more
1:07:13pleasure so uh it worked out okay but
1:07:16but you know that's what I also think
1:07:18like you know like everything is fair
1:07:21game you know everything in front of you
1:07:23everything that happens to you is
1:07:25um
1:07:26you know it doesn't have to go in any
1:07:28direct you can have make your work as
1:07:31holistic as you can stand your life to
1:07:33be this is the one with kupelo blauer
1:07:36they made this
1:07:38um
1:07:39Tower the sort of skirt as they talked
1:07:41about and then this viewing thing and
1:07:44then what I really realized what they
1:07:45were doing is really just making a scale
1:07:47model for something that they wanted to
1:07:49do and they've already done this then in
1:07:51like three buildings that they built has
1:07:54this exact same thing in it you know of
1:07:56that form so I realized like it was uh
1:07:59it was quite cheeky and funny
1:08:05this is stuff this I made this blanket I
1:08:07made at the fabric Workshop
1:08:09uh it was a Jacquard Loom blanket
1:08:22this is now my old assistant said now I
1:08:25make things like McDonald's sculptures
1:08:27um because when I was younger I cast
1:08:29everybody's body because I was like
1:08:31really against making any like I didn't
1:08:34I had no interest in my version of
1:08:37figuration you know I thought this is
1:08:38like completely boring to be thinking
1:08:40about figuration like that and
1:08:42um
1:08:43but then at a certain point I was
1:08:45casting people who were younger than me
1:08:47and then I said that's not my experience
1:08:49anymore and then I don't know then my
1:08:51assistants left you know they went off
1:08:54to be artists and I just thought oh now
1:08:56I'm just going to start making things by
1:08:58myself at my kitchen table and so I
1:09:00started making these small figures but
1:09:02now because of 3D scanners and stuff I
1:09:04can take them to my Foundry and then
1:09:07they cut them in styrofoam I work them
1:09:09in foam and then I make these things
1:09:11that look like big dolls but I'm a super
1:09:14crazy person for Ellen audelman's work
1:09:17um you know who if you don't know who he
1:09:20is he's a really great artist and was
1:09:22tremendously influential of Americans
1:09:25appreciation of folk art
1:09:29um and so so now they're like that but
1:09:32you know sometimes I am just completely
1:09:34embarrassed by what I do but you know
1:09:36it's sort of like you know you can get
1:09:38over it too
1:09:41um
1:09:45no no
1:09:47I I
1:09:49um I paint on glass which I really love
1:09:52with lead like lead and gum arabic and
1:09:55water that you fire and that I really
1:09:57like it's the same thing I thought it's
1:09:58the same thing with copper that it's a
1:10:00resistance like it doesn't
1:10:02um whereas like now I've been making
1:10:04these hinter glass paintings like rear
1:10:07glass paintings with oil on glass but I
1:10:10don't like the absorbency of things you
1:10:13know which is just you know sort of like
1:10:14saying I don't like ink I don't like
1:10:17like painting on paper or
1:10:20I like painting on a hard surface that's
1:10:22interesting to me for some reason but
1:10:24painting on I did paint when I was
1:10:26younger and um I always say it's because
1:10:29I didn't want to go to Canal Street
1:10:30anymore to go buy paint that I couldn't
1:10:32handle it was too stressful but
1:10:35um
1:10:36but it really was that I didn't care
1:10:41about I didn't care about pain pain I
1:10:44cared about the image but I didn't care
1:10:46about the painting part that much it was
1:10:50just expedient to me whereas painting on
1:10:52glass like I would spend my life doing
1:10:54that if I could
1:10:56um well this is my little wolf girl
1:10:58piece and she was great because I made
1:11:01her with a collaboration with a friend
1:11:02of mine Margaret dwice who's a composer
1:11:04so when you get next to her she was
1:11:07motion activated and she would like sort
1:11:10of sing this horrific song like like an
1:11:13abstract song just from made from sound
1:11:16but it was like really this bemoaning
1:11:19whale like a banshee or something
1:11:23this was the first one on the left it
1:11:25was the first
1:11:27time I made this collage
1:11:30um you know where I made a drawing of a
1:11:32girl and then I started chopping it up
1:11:34and and then I made a chair behind her
1:11:36and you know I think I was thinking
1:11:38about like Chinese ancestral paintings
1:11:39like how the people are sitting in
1:11:40chairs and it always annoyed me like
1:11:43sculptures of men in chairs in Parks
1:11:45when I was young and then all sudden I
1:11:47went oh no that's the best thing on
1:11:49earth
1:11:50so that's also like that one doesn't
1:11:53want to be attached to one's own History
1:11:55either you know it's not interesting to
1:11:59um
1:12:00to do that you know it's just what
1:12:02happened at a given moment
1:12:16this is just thick enough of this stuff
1:12:19oh that this piece I really loved that
1:12:22one oh the one on the right it's that I
1:12:23made for
1:12:24um
1:12:25I made it for the De Young Museum they
1:12:28asked me to make an installation when
1:12:30they rebuilt their Museum now and it was
1:12:33a very high ceiling and I made these
1:12:36cardboard boxes like a little bit like a
1:12:39spaceship or something flying like a
1:12:41kite sort of and then this image of
1:12:43these two little girls which was from a
1:12:46painting of colonial children that they
1:12:49had in their Museum and there's some
1:12:52reason to me that was really made me
1:12:54really happy
1:12:56you know it's like because I mean for me
1:12:57what's problematic to me about my work
1:13:00is how
1:13:02um
1:13:05um representational it is like I you
1:13:08know I would love to have more apps like
1:13:10over abstraction even though I think
1:13:12like in a certain way
1:13:14it's the more abstract formal aspects of
1:13:17things that is what I'm really
1:13:18interested in when it really comes down
1:13:20to it even though I don't talk through
1:13:22talk that way about it but but I still
1:13:25always wish there was sort of a more
1:13:26abstract component
1:13:29so that had it a little bit
1:13:34oh come on
1:13:37this must be the
1:13:50okay that's time to stop babies are
1:13:52crying
1:13:55thank you
1:13:57[Applause]

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