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Katt Williams: They Tied Me To A Pole And Beat Me Bloody Every Week! — Transcript

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0:00From 5 to 12,
0:02I was tied up to a pole in the basement
0:05hours at a time.
0:07Yeah.
0:10And my parents thought you could beat a
0:12child half to death on a weekly basis to
0:14the point where they're unconscious in a
0:16bathtub before school because in order
0:20for me to live this religious life that
0:22I was set up to live, it meant that I
0:25had to be 100% invested [music] and
0:28early on I had decided I'm just not
0:31going to do it.
0:33>> [screaming]
0:34>> You left home at 13 years old. This is
0:36where you slept in the city of Miami.
0:38You end up being a salesman and you
0:39became a pimp.
0:40>> Yes. I knocked on a door where some
0:43ladies of the night resided and their
0:46pimp had been killed and they would have
0:47conversations on a nightly basis that I
0:51know for a fact [music] are responsible
0:53for me becoming a better man.
0:55>> And then your first stand-up comedy
0:56event was you lying to a bouncer to get
0:58in because you were 16 years old and you
1:00win the competition.
1:01>> Yes, but I don't do comedy again for
1:03another 5 years because I still didn't
1:06understand this was a job you could do,
1:08but it was one of the first medicines
1:10that I discovered that was super
1:12important in me just making it day to
1:14day and at some point I was more sure
1:17that this was part of my [music]
1:19destiny.
1:20>> I read that you wrote down the names of
1:21300 comedians and you made the decision
1:24that you were going to study all of
1:25them.
1:25>> Because they were funnier [music] than
1:26me and that's what I had to fix because
1:29I'm in LA, I'm on Comic View doing
1:31acting on sitcoms.
1:33>> Are your parents still alive?
1:34>> Yes.
1:35>> How do you feel about them today? Um.
1:41Before this episode starts, I have a
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1:59the production. Thank you, and enjoy
2:00this episode.
2:03[music]
2:05Cat,
2:06can you take me into your your earliest
2:08context? If I was a fly on the wall in
2:11your life under the age of 10, what
2:13would I have seen, experienced, felt?
2:16>> Those were great years for me. I learned
2:18to read
2:19pretty early, like three.
2:22I felt like I was growing so much
2:25because I was reading adult stories and
2:28I was reading what adults were
2:31going through and I was trying to figure
2:33out how old am I going to be before I
2:35get this thing figured out? Because I
2:37couldn't figure out who gets to take
2:39adventures, who gets to be on
2:41adventures, who like how do you put
2:44yourself in these situations
2:46that I find all of these people in these
2:48books in, like soldiers and captains and
2:51stowaways and I love that part. I just
2:54wanted to
2:56try to figure out how to make myself one
2:58of those people.
2:59>> Be careful what you wish for.
3:01You wanted an an adventure, you
3:03certainly got
3:04an adventure.
3:05>> Right, right, yeah. But I I I just
3:07assumed that's how it worked out for the
3:09hero. Like five bad things had to happen
3:12to Cinderella before she was able to be
3:16the heroine. Like
3:18she had to have a terrible family life.
3:19They had to treat her bad. She was being
3:21verbally abused. She was given a
3:23terrible job.
3:25The stepsisters were awful. But for some
3:28reason, she maintained and she um
3:33she kept the type of person as she was
3:36still until things lined up. So I
3:39naively
3:41thought that that's how it worked out
3:42for all heroes, that it was just bad and
3:45then it it got greater later.
3:47I just held on to that.
3:49And so I was looking for
3:52my opportunities.
3:54>> It's funny because I have thoroughly
3:56researched your
3:57story and I had no idea how much you
4:00have been on an adventure, to say the
4:03least. And it's funny you talk about
4:05Cinderella there. Maybe you are
4:07the Cinderella of of comedy, because it
4:10really is a hero's journey, your story.
4:12>> That's much as you can do for 5 ft 5.
4:15It's
4:17Yeah, it's as much a Short King story as
4:19anything else.
4:20>> And you had a strict religious
4:22upbringing.
4:23>> Right.
4:23>> Tell me about that.
4:24>> We didn't celebrate
4:27holidays and birthdays and
4:30things like that. And I I wasn't able to
4:33do a lot of extracurricular activities.
4:36All the activities were Bible based.
4:40But I got a pass with books. And so
4:44that became my pressure valve for
4:47feeling
4:49restricted and suffocated. I could go to
4:52my room and get in these books and be
4:56somewhere completely different for
4:592 hours and come out of my room
5:03feeling an entirely different way, like
5:06I had been part of something
5:09of a bigger than me.
5:10>> Were you different from your peers at
5:11that age? Did you feel different?
5:14>> I knew that my upbringing was not the
5:16same as my peers, and I knew that there
5:21was a lot more leeway and freedom out
5:23there in the world of being a kid than I
5:26was experiencing.
5:28Even when it was
5:30super bad, I didn't look at it as bad as
5:32it was. I I just assumed that if it was
5:36more difficult, that just meant
5:39I was destined for better things, I
5:42thought.
5:45>> And now as an adult, when you look back
5:46on this little guy,
5:49have you noticed that he was different
5:51in hindsight as an adult?
5:52>> No.
5:53>> No.
5:53>> That's probably the thing I did
5:56best
5:58was I preserved
6:00as much of him
6:03as I could in 55 years. I was always
6:07cognizant of this guy
6:09and what he was thinking. And um I've
6:12been a happy person my whole life.
6:15>> I mean how old are you here? You're
6:16probably what?
6:17Five to
6:18>> So I'm five there and seven there.
6:22>> How did it feel to see these photos?
6:25>> Um
6:27>> I say that because you passed them back
6:28pretty quick.
6:30>> [laughter]
6:31>> Is that not normal?
6:32>> No.
6:34People don't usually pick them up and
6:35pass them back to you.
6:36>> Like playing cards.
6:38Redeal.
6:40I kind of feel sorry for him.
6:42Now I can look back at the pictures and
6:45see
6:46how happy and care-free that he was.
6:50Also knowing what he was going through
6:53even at that time behind the scenes. I'm
6:55just
6:57incredibly proud for the little guy that
7:00it worked out
7:02for him the way that it did.
7:05Yeah, cuz that's all the pictures of me.
7:07All the pictures of me
7:09I'm I'm happy just like that.
7:12[laughter]
7:14But probably
7:15had a terrible day.
7:17>> You feel sorry for him because of what
7:19he was going through.
7:20>> Right.
7:20>> What was he going through?
7:22>> There are times when being
7:27joyful and inquisitive and
7:30on go 24/7 can
7:34probably be more than a handful for
7:37young parents
7:40with their first child and you know
7:44they should be able to make mistakes as
7:46well. But um
7:50>> I know there was from reading your book
7:52there was abuse in the home
7:54[clears throat] from your parents. Is
7:55that what you're referring to?
7:58>> Uh corporal punishment wasn't really
8:01useful in my life. It was
8:05my parents believed in
8:07spare the rod, spoil the child. So, um
8:10if there were issues, you could just
8:12beat it out of them, whatever it was.
8:15That didn't really work for me. I I
8:16handled it um
8:19a different way, and I kind of felt like
8:22it was just more evidence
8:26that I had meaning in my life and that I
8:30could potentially
8:33turn out to do something meaningful, or
8:35what would all of this be for? Um when I
8:38leave home at 13, it's it's been
8:45almost
8:47six years, almost half my life coming,
8:49like I've been preparing
8:52from this point to 12 that if I get an
8:56opportunity
8:58to go on my way as an adventurer, that
9:01that's what I'm going to do.
9:03>> If you're five and seven years old here,
9:05at what age did the
9:08the beatings start in your household?
9:12>> Just from five to 12.
9:16So, that's a seven-year period.
9:25I've forgiven all the participants, so
9:29it doesn't
9:30make it easier to
9:33go back and peel scabs off. Um
9:36just because I've forgiven everybody
9:38involved.
9:39It's such an important part of my life
9:42just because
9:44we need to be put in difficult
9:46situations for us to be able to find out
9:49what we're made of and what we're
9:51capable of. How I
9:56handled that situation was one of the
10:00first instances of me actually being a
10:02man to me, to myself, because I had to
10:06make
10:07grown decisions a little earlier than
10:10most and um
10:12it's certainly not pleasant to discuss.
10:15I don't I don't enjoy discussing it, but
10:18um still a critical
10:22part of the story.
10:24>> As I was reading your book in this
10:25chapter, um chapter says this is for
10:28your own good. Between 8 and 12 my life
10:31turned into a private war zone disguised
10:35as our basement. It started small, if
10:37you can call about small. At first it
10:39was three or four whippings a week. And
10:41I say whipping because that's what they
10:43called it.
10:44Like it was some wholesome southern
10:46tradition passed down from Big Mama.
10:48However, the whippings matured into
10:50something monstrous. The belt turned
10:52into an extension cord and the extension
10:53cord turned into a water hose. When that
10:55started tearing skin instead of teaching
10:57lessons, they switched to a 2x4.
11:00And they claimed it was because I was
11:02hard [sighs and gasps] headed and knew
11:04too much.
11:06>> Right.
11:07>> I say this because, you know, some
11:08people hear about tough parents, but
11:11this is a different category of
11:14punishment.
11:15>> Yeah, this is tied up to a pole in the
11:18basement
11:19>> Your parents
11:19>> hours at a time, yeah.
11:21>> hours at a time.
11:21>> Yeah.
11:23But to their credit, I was fast and
11:25evasive and they tried
11:28[laughter]
11:29they tried it without tying me and that
11:31didn't work well. I was able to maneuver
11:33the entire house. Uh
11:36[laughter]
11:36so that's where it eventually came to.
11:39>> Because you knew too much.
11:42>> Not because I knew too much, more
11:44because
11:46I
11:47said too much.
11:49And I would know what the repercussions
11:53were going to be and still say it. The
11:56things that I was questioning them on
11:59were a lot of times biblical in nature,
12:02you know?
12:04You're trying to instill upon me this
12:08particular truth
12:10that we collectively believe in.
12:13And um
12:15I'm explaining to you
12:18I don't I don't believe that. And it's
12:20going to have to be discussed because
12:23you told me the
12:26Bible was written by God.
12:28So I don't want to see any errors. I
12:32don't want to see any mistakes. I don't
12:34want to see a passage that talks about
12:37how you should treat your slaves
12:40because now I have a different
12:41conversation that I need to have. And um
12:47yeah, even at that point in my life
12:50I just wanted to know what the truth was
12:53about things and I thought that that was
12:55a safe place for it, but you know
12:59I was still willing to to take
13:02whatever came
13:05with it.
13:06>> Did you as a child at that age
13:09have any idea that that treating a child
13:11that way is unacceptable or did you
13:13think that was normal?
13:14And how has time changed your perception
13:16of what that was and do you now classify
13:18that as abuse?
13:19>> Yeah, I I was cognizant. I I understood
13:21that
13:23the things that my peers were getting in
13:25trouble for I had never done
13:28any of those things. Like I had never
13:30committed any crimes.
13:32I was a virgin. I had never snuck out
13:35the house to go to events. I just knew
13:38that they didn't
13:40care for me as a person. And so for the
13:43first
13:45few years I was just trying to figure
13:46out what what it was about me
13:50that they didn't like. Once I realized
13:52that it was out of my hands
13:54then I
13:56privately just got defiant about it.
13:58Beat to your heart's content.
14:01I'm going to still keep talking
14:02through the process and I'm going to
14:04commentate this for myself and I'm going
14:06to say things like how does this make
14:09you feel?
14:10You sure are beating your baby a lot.
14:12You say God loves this?
14:15That's uh
14:16That's me during the process because
14:19that's how I was able to handle it. But
14:21yeah, I I knew it was abuse then.
14:23>> You said you realized at a at a young
14:25age they didn't care for you as a
14:26person.
14:28>> Right.
14:28>> Was there any sign of love in
14:30that relationship with your parents?
14:33Or was it all this abuse?
14:36>> No, I I I felt like it made them better
14:39parents.
14:41Like I appreciated them more
14:43than
14:44I think I would have like
14:47because all the mothers that I saw
14:50seemed to love their kids, you know?
14:52Um and I wasn't really sure
14:56why my mother didn't feel that way.
14:59I was really thankful that they took as
15:01good a care of me as they did
15:03considering
15:05how they [clears throat] felt.
15:06>> Were they loving affectionate at all
15:08outside of
15:09this war zone in the basement as you
15:11call it?
15:12>> No, but they didn't they didn't start
15:13off that way, so they didn't have to
15:15make any adjustments. I would I would
15:17watch a sitcom and see those families. I
15:21That's where I would notice
15:24that this isn't exactly how the family
15:26dynamic is supposed to go. I'm watching
15:29the Waltons or something, you know? Oh,
15:31she's supposed to kiss me every night,
15:33huh?
15:34Huh. It's interesting.
15:36Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't lovey-dovey
15:38like that, but
15:40again,
15:41I was thankful for how well they
15:43treated me considering.
15:45>> I read you were an extremely intelligent
15:47young child,
15:49especially as it relates to book smarts.
15:51Your seventh grade placement test
15:52results were so high that your school
15:54said you could go straight to college.
15:57You are a different thinker. You think
15:58very differently to others. I think you
16:00you observe the world differently to
16:01many people as well. And you know, also
16:04hearing about your great love for
16:06some of these books that I have here.
16:09>> Look at there.
16:10Two great books.
16:13>> These were two of your favorites?
16:15>> White Fang, Call of the Wild by Jack
16:18London. I was just mesmerized that he
16:21was able to
16:23create this captivating story that had
16:26me fully
16:27taken like this was one of the
16:30first ones where I I couldn't
16:32start another book. I had to finish this
16:35and um
16:38and understand it. And the Swiss Family
16:40Robinson
16:43was just so proud of them as a family
16:45and seeing what the dynamic was of
16:49everybody working together and everybody
16:51having different strengths and
16:52weaknesses and uh
16:55always having to
16:57depend on one another and um
17:00I could find something in each of these
17:03tales
17:05that I could directly put into my life.
17:07You know what I mean? Like
17:10yeah.
17:11>> You had um two younger brothers, Steven
17:12and Brian?
17:13>> Correct.
17:15>> Was the treatment the same for Steven
17:16and Brian or was it different?
17:19>> It was different which
17:22made me feel like it had been
17:24more me.
17:26But yeah, one of my brothers
17:29uh
17:31suffers with mental illness
17:34and my baby brother is a genius.
17:36When my
17:39middle brother was born,
17:42he looked exactly like my father.
17:45It made the whole house better.
17:48Like they were so happy to have him.
17:52[laughter]
17:53They were so happy to have him
17:55um that I realized what a disappointment
17:59I must have been to them for whatever
18:01reasons.
18:03It's eight years in between them and I.
18:07So I had lived quite a long time as only
18:09child
18:11um before they showed up.
18:12>> Were they ever tied up in the basement?
18:15>> No.
18:17To their credit, they were aware of
18:20the fact that that didn't work.
18:25They understood it didn't work,
18:27if nothing else.
18:29>> As I've gotten older,
18:31I've realized that
18:32I learned
18:34a model for what relationships are and
18:36love is
18:38from watching my parents, and I didn't
18:39realize that until I looked at some of
18:41my
18:44habits and responses when I became an
18:47adult in romantic contexts. I discovered
18:50that I was heavily avoidant
18:52because I grew up in a household where
18:53my Nigerian mother and my father were
18:56often at sort of verbal war. My my
18:58Nigerian mother would often, you know,
19:00spend many many hours a day
19:03um shouting at my father. My father
19:05would never say anything. It was just
19:06seven hours of screaming in my house.
19:08And I used to wonder like why wouldn't
19:10my dad leave? Like I I I wanted him to
19:13leave.
19:14I was willing them to break up because
19:16it was so um volatile. And then, you
19:18know, you don't really know as a young
19:19person whether that's changed you in any
19:20way until you, you know, you get to 21
19:23or what you 14 and someone wants to be
19:25in a relationship with you and you find
19:27yourself running away from it. Because I
19:29think at a young age I I'd learned that
19:31commitment is prison. Like my father, in
19:33my mind, was in prison.
19:35So
19:3614 15 16 I spent four years pursuing
19:38this girl. She turns around finally and
19:39says she would be in a relationship with
19:40me, and I got the same feeling of like
19:43that someone was taking me to prison.
19:45It's like a trigger went off, and I just
19:46waited her from being in a relationship
19:47with me after four years of pursuing
19:49her.
19:50And then I didn't get into a
19:51relationship until I was almost I was
19:53closer to 30 was my first relationship,
19:55and so I reflect and go, oh my god,
19:57I didn't realize that I
19:59had learned a model for love and
20:00relationship and affection, and at some
20:02point I have to do the work to sort of
20:03unlearn that.
20:05>> Yeah, well it was the opposite. My
20:07mother and father's relationship
20:11equals out to the
20:13greatest love story I've known my whole
20:15life. Like um
20:17my parents were married when I met them,
20:20and they're still married to this day.
20:23Their love for one another is
20:27what I based marriage on. Like, I've
20:30never
20:31seen or heard them argue with one
20:33another. I've never seen them have a
20:35disagreement between [snorts] one
20:38another. I've only
20:40saw love
20:42in their relationship with one another
20:45my entire life.
20:46>> Which is very confusing.
20:48>> Right.
20:49Outwardly, they were perfect.
20:51Everything they presented was
20:54a perfect view of what you would think
20:57it should be. There were just
20:59things behind the scenes that were
21:02terrible. But when they did a great job,
21:04they did a great job. And I I can't
21:08[gasps]
21:08I can't tell the story fairly without
21:11mentioning that those things.
21:14>> In 100 page 165 in your book, you say,
21:17if I'm being honest, my complicated
21:18pattern with women didn't start in
21:20adulthood. It started at home.
21:22My mama was ground zero.
21:25That's supposed to be your first lesson
21:27in love, warmth, reassurance. Instead, I
21:29got love in sample sizes.
21:32That kind of shortage doesn't scream at
21:34you.
21:35It moves in silently and reshuffles the
21:38furniture in your heart.
21:40>> Right, because not getting the love from
21:43somewhere where you
21:46assume that it naturally comes in
21:49is a little bit
21:51more difficult
21:53to process
21:55why that's not happening. The love from
21:58other women
21:59was all around me and present with every
22:03new
22:04woman that I met, it seemed. But
22:07because of my upbringing,
22:10I didn't have any sisters
22:12and my mother wasn't engaged personally
22:15with me like that.
22:17So I I didn't have a frame of reference
22:20for
22:21how women thought or
22:25dialogued. that
22:26getting it from books I was reading. I
22:29remember reading Little Women,
22:32and I read the entire book.
22:36And when I got to the end, I didn't
22:38understand any part of it. I didn't I
22:40just didn't understand the different
22:42women and how they could all be related
22:45and yet all have these completely
22:47different viewpoints on things. And
22:52yeah, I probably had to read it two or
22:53three times just to understand. I I
22:57think up until that point, I thought
22:59that um
23:01men and women were pretty similar
23:04in their thought processes and in their
23:07um communication. Only to find out
23:12there's almost no more intriguing
23:14subject than women and
23:17[laughter] how important they are to our
23:19world and and um
23:22>> Because the model of a woman in your
23:23life was your mother?
23:25>> Right.
23:26Right.
23:27>> Was the abuse dealt at the hands of both
23:29your mother and your father?
23:31>> Evenly.
23:31>> Evenly?
23:32>> Yeah.
23:34Yeah.
23:35[gasps]
23:36In order for me to live this religious
23:38life that I was set up to live,
23:41it meant that I had to be 100% invested
23:45and I had to
23:48act the way that I believed.
23:50And early on,
23:53I had decided that I wasn't going to
23:55live a double life. I wasn't going to
23:58pretend for you that this is my life and
24:02I'm happy with this and
24:03>> The religious part?
24:04>> Right, with these answers to these
24:06questions and
24:08yeah, I'm just not going to do it.
24:11>> Were they Jehovah's Witnesses?
24:13>> Allegedly.
24:19Could have been Scientologists.
24:21But yes.
24:22>> Why [laughter] do you say allegedly?
24:27>> Well, because this isn't
24:29in any
24:31body's religious framework, you know?
24:34Like, they weren't doing this to stay in
24:37good graces
24:39of the religion. Like, the religion
24:41wasn't condoning this. Even then, nobody
24:44thought
24:45you could
24:47beat a child half to death on a weekly
24:49basis to the point where they're
24:50unconscious in a bathtub before school
24:54and you're having to try to get them to
24:56where they can
24:58where the bleeding will stop so they can
25:00go to school. Like, no
25:02no religion condones that. But we were
25:06high up in the religion and an example
25:09to a lot of people. So, it was necessary
25:12that I do a better acting job
25:15or
25:16give in.
25:17>> Unconscious in a bathtub before school
25:20and they put you in the bathtub because
25:22you were bleeding.
25:23>> Right.
25:25Well, we had like an hour
25:28to play with sometimes as far as
25:32what just happened and now
25:35I'm in no shape
25:37to be getting ready for a school day.
25:40But we got to get the bleeding to stop
25:43and we got to
25:46you know, Epsom salts, I believe.
25:48Just so we can get a good scab on so he
25:50can afford to put his clothes on and get
25:52on off to school. Cuz no matter what
25:55happened, I was never missing school.
25:57School was like
25:59everything in my world. So, just to get
26:01a chance to be out of this situation and
26:04in a different situation where they
26:05don't even know that that situation took
26:08place, like
26:10that's why I look happy in all the
26:11school pictures.
26:12>> They they beat you until you're
26:14unconscious.
26:16>> Yeah, they had great stamina.
26:18That these these would go on for
26:21hours. Like,
26:23generally that's when they felt like
26:25they had done too much.
26:27Cuz when it first started, like I had
26:28neighbors next door
26:30that loved an older white couple, and I
26:33knew their house was too close
26:36to our house for them not
26:38to be able [clears throat] to hear. So a
26:40lot of times I would make sure
26:42that it was boisterous enough that the
26:44neighbors could all
26:47bear witness to what I was going
26:48through. And when I saw them years
26:50later,
26:51they were
26:52they were so crestfallen. They were
26:53like, we just didn't understand what was
26:55going on because we would hear it for
26:58hours and hours at night.
27:00And then we would see you at 7:00 a.m.
27:04and you'd be all dressed and smiling and
27:07on your way to school like it didn't
27:09happen.
27:10And uh
27:11I got so much from that. Like I was so
27:14prepared for
27:16what might happen out in the world,
27:18considering, just cuz I knew I could
27:21count on me in those situations
27:24to figure an answer out where we could
27:27be good.
27:31>> I know you're going somewhere with that.
27:33>> No, I'm I'm just so fascinated. This is
27:35why I'm not looking down at my notes
27:36because it's so No, I'm I'm fascinated
27:38by how, in my words, such a horrific
27:41early experience
27:43ends up leaving scars on you. And you
27:45know, I am I sat and interviewed Michael
27:48Jordan, Kobe Bryant's coach.
27:50And they one of the things he said to me
27:52is our
27:53our we will have a dark side and a light
27:54side, as he referred to it. He said our
27:56dark side is fundamentally connected to
27:57our light side. So in the case often
27:59when you meet, you know, comedians,
28:00there's a stereotype that they were
28:02trying to make someone happy, whether it
28:03was themselves or a parent when they
28:05were younger. And that's really where
28:06comedy originated from often. This is
28:08the stereotype.
28:09And that's what's what's made them the
28:11great comedian or performer or artist
28:13they are today.
28:15And that's kind of what I was mulling,
28:16is how how this experience is at all
28:18connected to what you then went on to do
28:20in your life professionally.
28:21>> That's not really where the bridge for
28:23me was. I I never thought I would be
28:25involved in comedy, but I learned early
28:29that I could count on comedy
28:33to help me how I felt. So, I was
28:37interested in
28:39all forms of comedy no matter who was
28:43doing it, no matter if it was slapstick
28:45or silent or whether it was literary or
28:49whether it was Don Knott's. I
28:51appreciated the fact that it didn't
28:54matter
28:55what you were going through.
28:58If you could put yourself in a position
29:01to get a laugh,
29:03it would absolutely
29:05make things better.
29:06>> Make you better or the audience?
29:08>> There was no audience. It was just me. I
29:10just knew that
29:14watching a comedy film
29:16is going to change my day.
29:18Like I'm going to laugh enough times in
29:20this
29:22that when I come out of this situation,
29:24I won't
29:25I won't feel the way it was when I
29:28started. And comedy always came through
29:30for me.
29:31>> You're describing comedy as if it's
29:33medicine.
29:34>> I would have used anything that worked.
29:36Comedy
29:38made light of all situations,
29:41even at a funeral.
29:42If you're in a funeral proceeding and a
29:45joke is told,
29:49it hits even harder
29:51because um we need the laugh. When I
29:54shut that room door,
29:56that as soon as I shut that door,
30:00I'm in control now.
30:01>> Your bedroom door?
30:02>> Yeah. And I know
30:04things about my brain that I don't think
30:07other people know. I know that I can put
30:09things in here
30:11and it will change
30:14how I see things. I fed myself on comedy
30:19things, just comedy material because it
30:22was just so helpful when it came
30:25a point where I could do comedy.
30:28[gasps]
30:30That [clears throat] was out of nowhere.
30:31That's the one thing I had never even
30:35put in my head is that I could be
30:37involved in comedy, but I I already had
30:39a proper respect for how important it
30:41was.
30:43>> You left home at 13 years old
30:46and ran away.
30:48Take me into what led up to that
30:49decision.
30:50>> I didn't run away. It was only a matter
30:53of time
30:54before the authorities were involved,
30:57and that's just how it happened. Like I
31:00I never said anything to anyone. My
31:03parents never said anything. It was
31:05wonderful blessed administrators at
31:08school that
31:10noticed that the guy who loved nothing
31:13more than gym physical education wasn't
31:17dressing out for gym sometimes, and they
31:20found that to be odd and unlike him. So,
31:24you know, the police were called to the
31:25school.
31:27They did
31:28an investigation, took pictures, and the
31:32plan was that they were
31:34going to come to our house the next day
31:37and make arrests.
31:39And so I I needed to
31:43not be there when that happened so that
31:46my younger brothers had a chance.
31:49>> So the police took photos of your body.
31:51>> Yeah.
31:52>> And what did they find?
31:54>> Well, it was obvious like I got
31:57I'm [clears throat] covered in
32:00extension cord wounds. Like
32:03it's they're pretty deep. They're often
32:06you can see
32:08the progression from the extension cords
32:11to the water hose. So you can there's
32:13damage on my body.
32:15>> Did you want the police to
32:17know?
32:19>> No, but
32:21I I didn't have a way of proving to
32:23myself that this is egregious and
32:26outside the way outside the norm. This
32:29is beyond the pale. This is
32:32criminal.
32:33I didn't really
32:34have a frame for that, but they did, and
32:37they were quite clear that
32:39it doesn't go like this. Like nobody
32:41gets to do this [gasps]
32:43to a child, and it doesn't matter what
32:45you did.
32:46So um
32:48when I asked them, so what's what what's
32:51going to happen tomorrow? And they were
32:52like, we're coming to the house, we're
32:54going to
32:55arrest your parents, and we're going to
32:58move your brothers to a safe place, you
33:00and your brothers, where everybody can
33:02be safe. And my question was, could they
33:06at least
33:08promise that
33:09my two younger brothers wouldn't be
33:11separated, you know? Because we had
33:15loads of family in the city, you know?
33:17And there were many options for that. So
33:20I I just wanted that as a guarantee from
33:23them. And they explained to me that they
33:25couldn't make any guarantees like that,
33:27that that's not they weren't part of the
33:29system. Their job is to remove the kids,
33:31and however the system has to deal with
33:34it, that's how they deal with it. And
33:37so that was basically what I was trying
33:40to circumvent was letting my situation
33:45ruin my brothers' situations.
33:48>> Who told your parents that the police
33:49were coming?
33:51>> I told them everything that had happened
33:53that day at school.
33:55>> How did they react?
33:56>> I guess they took it well. From the
33:57story, they knew
33:59I couldn't have had anything to
34:02to do with it.
34:03>> And when you you sit with them, you're
34:0513 years old at the dinner table and you
34:07say, listen, I'm going to leave.
34:09Did you have a plan for where you were
34:10going to go and what you were going to
34:11do? Did they try and stop you leaving?
34:14>> Well,
34:15I think many parents of the time
34:19had a thing where
34:21as long as you live under this roof,
34:24these are the rules, you know?
34:27And Arts was no different.
34:29And I was just letting them know that I
34:31could no longer
34:34live with the rules and regulations. And
34:38But you're 13 years old.
34:39You're not you're not a man.
34:41>> but, but I'm
34:43And my father's 5 3.
34:45So I'm taller than the man of this
34:48house.
34:49And
34:51I'm not
34:52going to let you
34:54beat me again.
34:57That's where we are now. So whatever one
35:00you got off
35:01that was the last one of those.
35:04If you're in a situation that is no
35:06longer feasible for you as a person and
35:09it's bad for your health literally and
35:12figuratively
35:14whatever age you are, you've got to make
35:17a grown decision and a right decision.
35:20And that that was certainly
35:22it for me.
35:24>> Did you have a plan?
35:26>> No.
35:28No. [clears throat]
35:29No. I I no, certainly not.
35:32>> Did you have money?
35:33>> Mhm. It was millions of dollars for a 12
35:36year old, but I think I had like
35:38I think I had like $1,200.
35:40>> $1,200.
35:41>> So I was literally hemorrhaging cash.
35:45>> Did you move into somewhere else or were
35:48you homeless at from 13 years old?
35:50>> I went to um a truck stop, found out
35:54which trucks were going to warm weather
35:55places because I was had been in Ohio my
35:59whole life and I just knew
36:01I didn't want to deal with being out
36:03there by myself and
36:05the winter weather. And so it really
36:08left me like
36:09California, Texas, and Florida as my
36:12options.
36:14And uh Florida
36:16is where I ended up. So immediately upon
36:21getting to Florida to Miami, I'm
36:24homeless as you put it, but I didn't I
36:27didn't feel like that. I didn't own the
36:28home I was just at, you know? And I
36:30didn't feel comfortable there. So I I
36:32didn't feel homeless. I felt I felt
36:35free.
36:36And I felt like today I'm not a victim
36:39of any circumstances.
36:43>> I
36:44found a sign of the park that you slept
36:46in
36:47from 13 years old.
36:49[laughter]
36:51Which is Peacock Park in the city of
36:53Miami.
36:54>> So isn't it interesting that it
36:57literally says where magic happens?
37:01[laughter] Like what other park in
37:03America has that? Like why would you
37:07why is that there?
37:09But my life story says
37:12magic happened there. That's crazy.
37:16Yeah, you certainly do your due
37:18diligence. I've never even seen that
37:20sign.
37:22>> What magic took place in Peacock Park
37:25when you were 13?
37:26>> For somebody who
37:28didn't really have a social footprint in
37:31the world
37:33and somebody who loves stories
37:37this was um
37:39a front seat
37:42viewing
37:44of
37:45some of life's
37:47turmoil and tribulation. So I'll say
37:50it's 1983
37:53Miami Vice.
37:54[laughter]
37:55There's a lot of things going on in
37:57Miami at the time and there's this
38:00homeless
38:01enclave that exists
38:04at the back of this park.
38:06Everybody in this enclave was doing
38:10terribly in life and it was a new
38:13circumstance for them.
38:15They were just a doctor and they were
38:17just a lawyer and they were just a nurse
38:19recently and they just had a wife and a
38:22family and people that loved them and
38:26they made this particular decision and
38:28they got on this particular drug
38:31and then the whole story is downhill
38:34from there and this guy
38:36who's telling me about his whole life
38:39until
38:40alcoholism shows up and he can't hang on
38:45and he loses everything that means
38:48something to him. And that's 100%
38:50responsible
38:52for why I never tried hard drugs,
38:57because I got scared straight like too
38:59early. Like nobody told a story of good
39:03times,
39:05how great being on LSD was or how
39:08greatly cocaine had changed and affected
39:12their life. Like they were living
39:14good lives. They were good people. It
39:17was just
39:18certain decisions that you make that you
39:20can't get back.
39:22[clears throat] No peacocks at the park,
39:24interestingly enough. But yes, magic
39:27definitely happened for me there.
39:30>> Were you taken care of by the homeless
39:32community in the park? Was it a safe
39:35place for you?
39:36>> No, I don't think there were any safe
39:38places and some people are homeless
39:40because they're terrible people.
39:42[laughter]
39:43Some people are terrible people, and
39:46they've burned all of the bridges in
39:48their life and they've
39:50hurt people that didn't deserve it and
39:53they made awful decisions and that's how
39:55they end up in that situation. I had to
39:58learn that. There's good and bad people
40:01out there.
40:03>> What were you doing to make money at at
40:04that time?
40:05>> For the most part, I was able to find
40:08some employment that didn't need my
40:10identification and just somebody that
40:13owned the business that didn't mind
40:15a guy coming in and um working after
40:19hours.
40:20So God looked out for me there. And I I
40:23tried my hand at uh
40:26car theft, which was a lucrative thing
40:28in the area that I was in.
40:31I really gave myself a hard time
40:34about it and couldn't morally
40:38continue just because
40:40I didn't want to
40:42I didn't want this to be the one thing I
40:44was good at
40:45is doing something illegal. So I I
40:48had a very brief stint with uh with
40:51that.
40:52>> On page 55 in your book, you talk about
40:53how one day you were walking along the
40:54highway and your parents and brother
40:58found you and they pulled up beside you
41:00in their car. Take me into that moment.
41:02What did they say? What did you say?
41:04>> It was probably like the most movie-like
41:08scenario I've ever
41:10been a part of outside of a movie. And
41:14this is now
41:16a year and a half later
41:18and I've been to three or four different
41:22locations
41:24in this state [sighs and gasps]
41:27and I'm literally just walking alongside
41:30the highway when a vehicle pulls over.
41:35So up until this point, I've been
41:37checking all the milk cartons I can
41:40find at the stores and I know that
41:44nobody's looking for me. There's no
41:46missing persons.
41:48>> You were actually checking milk cartons?
41:50>> Well, yeah, because I had such a large
41:52family and I
41:55I was certain that I had been missed. Um
41:58[laughter] I thought I was a great kid.
42:00And so I had to come to grips with the
42:02fact that
42:04no,
42:05nobody misses you and nobody cares that
42:07you're gone and nobody noticed. You're
42:09just
42:10out there. I was just really in shock
42:12because I wasn't sure if
42:16they had been tailing me for a year and
42:19a half? Have they been following me for
42:21a year and a half?
42:23Were they aware of where I was the whole
42:26time? I I didn't
42:29I didn't have any of the information. So
42:31it was a
42:33it was a very weird meetup. But I was
42:36also
42:38what I thought the way that I would feel
42:41about seeing them
42:42was completely erased by
42:46how happy I was to see my brothers. And
42:50I didn't realize in that year and a half
42:54how gut-wrenching leaving my brothers
42:58was going to be in my life and um
43:02so that kind of overwhelmed everything
43:05and they let me know that they were in
43:07Florida and yeah just
43:09hop in.
43:10>> Were they looking for you or did they
43:12just happen to drive past you?
43:13>> It's the state they went to.
43:17So we find out later on that when I
43:19leave that day
43:22they leave the same day.
43:24>> They moved as well? Oh, because the
43:26police were coming?
43:26>> So they moved the whole family that same
43:29day.
43:30>> To Florida?
43:30>> So it never looked to my family or
43:32people that loved me it never looked
43:34like
43:35I had left home it looked like the
43:37family had moved and because they were
43:40missionaries
43:42people thought that was perfectly
43:45understandable.
43:46>> So they tell you to hop in the car
43:48presumably you get in the car
43:49>> Mhm.
43:50>> and
43:51is there a conversation that you have
43:53with your parents at that time?
43:55Is there a hug or
43:56>> No, but they're so I know they're glad
43:59to see me for some reason
44:02and I did I didn't leave on that note um
44:05but everybody is overjoyed to see me.
44:09>> You know cuz when you objectively
44:10described these situations when you say
44:12things to me like I realized that nobody
44:14was looking for me and nobody missed me
44:16these are um
44:17these are very difficult things for me
44:18to hear
44:20because it it's it's
44:23it's heartbreaking to hear a child say
44:25that about their parents
44:26but you're able to say it in a way
44:28that's quite matter of fact
44:30and that
44:31makes me wonder like how you've
44:32processed the emotions of all of this
44:35through your life and have you at all
44:36been able to sort of like
44:37compartmentalize maybe is the word or
44:39maybe just generally sort of numb
44:40yourself
44:42to be able to process and move forward
44:44in life without
44:46you know?
44:47>> Thank you.
44:48That's kind of a compliment if that's
44:50what's going on but yeah I wasn't
44:52getting what it was I was expecting from
44:56these two individuals.
44:58But
45:00I was getting so much from places I
45:03didn't expect it. So for however poorly
45:07my parents might have done in the
45:09situation, my grandparents were
45:12wonderful. Like [laughter]
45:14like the my
45:17Right. Right. Exactly.
45:19>> So picture of all of your family?
45:21>> Literally the best family possible. Like
45:24as far as
45:26happiness and well-being and like
45:30Yeah, my
45:33parents' shortcomings didn't change any
45:35of that.
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47:46You go on a mission to Haiti with with
47:48your family shortly thereafter. You talk
47:51about that a lot in the book, and then
47:52you return back to America after the
47:55Haitian government collapses. Um you're
47:5715 16 years old when you return. You
47:59didn't return to school once you got
48:01back to the US.
48:02Um you worked
48:04in a carnival, I believe, around that
48:06time.
48:07>> Yeah.
48:07>> When does your first stand-up show
48:11happen?
48:12>> So
48:13now we're back from Haiti. I'm trying to
48:17figure out
48:19what my life holds.
48:21>> You're still living with your parents at
48:22this time? You're back living with them?
48:24>> No. If it's not for going to Haiti, the
48:27whole come
48:29live with them thing
48:31already wasn't going to work. Um I was
48:34already
48:36grown past my years. Like I got this
48:39whole grown man life that just wouldn't
48:42couldn't be put in a child's box again.
48:45Um
48:47but
48:48as I'm out there in this world where
48:51they have this city where the carnival
48:53people come to when there is no
48:55carnival, I'm in that area and um
48:59there's five or six people that are part
49:02of this business where they sell
49:04flowers and um one night
49:08they weren't going home after work. They
49:11were going to go to this um
49:14little club, this little bar downtown.
49:16>> adults, 21 year olds?
49:18>> Well
49:18>> And you're 16?
49:19>> I think maybe the oldest person might be
49:2121, but everybody else is 18 and 19 and
49:25I'm just 16, you know?
49:28And I only have dress clothes, so you
49:30know, everybody just assumes that I'm of
49:33age young man. But as we're in this line
49:37there's somebody IDing people and I
49:39realize that this is getting ready to be
49:41a situation because nobody here knows
49:43how old I really am. And right as I'm
49:45trying to process what to do
49:48I see that some people aren't getting in
49:50this line with us. Certain people are
49:53walking around the line and going
49:55up to the bouncer and saying something
49:58and he's letting them right in. No ID,
50:00no money exchange, nothing. So I'm
50:03paying attention to that and I'm
50:05noticing oh, they're going over there
50:07and telling them they're a comedian and
50:09getting in.
50:11That's the first time I even know that
50:13comedy is taking place here. It turns
50:16out they're having a comedy competition.
50:19I'm able to get in without an ID because
50:21I
50:22tell them I'm a comedian and he lets me
50:24in lets me know I'm number five. I'm
50:26thinking when we get in this place I'll
50:27be able to just go back where my friends
50:30are and um
50:32but when we get in there it probably
50:34only seated like 30 people, the whole
50:37venue. So there was nowhere to hide. I
50:40was literally comedian number five. They
50:42explained that you're just getting up
50:44there and you have whatever it was,
50:46three to five minutes
50:48and you go up there and when everybody's
50:50done they'll pick who they like the
50:51best. And so that was my first foray
50:56into comedy of any kind
50:59and uh
51:00>> You win the competition.
51:02>> Right. But
51:03>> at
51:04>> evidence that I had no idea what was
51:06going on because
51:08I
51:10if I was up there for four or five
51:12minutes,
51:13I only told one joke. I didn't have
51:15multiple topics or anything. I I
51:19literally got on stage and I talked
51:21about one subject the entire time. It
51:25was just they liked the subject.
51:27>> And you didn't do comedy again for years
51:29after that night.
51:31>> Yeah, I don't I don't do comedy again
51:33for another five years just because um
51:37I still didn't understand this was a job
51:39you could do.
51:40>> Did you know you were funny?
51:41>> I knew that you needed a certain
51:43bit of intelligence to be funny. I knew
51:47that it was more difficult than it
51:49seemed, but
51:52I just assumed that it had my success
51:55had more to do with the subject matter
51:58that I had chosen at that particular
51:59time, and
52:02it paid $25 for five minutes. Although I
52:05could appreciate, huh, that's pretty
52:08decent money for just for talking, it
52:10still didn't seem like a job
52:12opportunity.
52:13>> If I had asked you at that age, 16 years
52:15old, what you want to be in the future,
52:17what would you have said to me?
52:18>> I wanted to be a soldier and
52:22die for this country.
52:24>> And you applied to become a Marine at 16
52:26years old. You did all the tests. You
52:28passed easily, and then one of the
52:29clerks reviewed a file and realized you
52:31were four months too young to join.
52:34You say in the book, my dream died
52:35before I even laced up my boots.
52:37>> Yeah, because this does isn't happening
52:39at the time that I'm talking to you.
52:41This is happening a year earlier.
52:44>> Mm.
52:44>> I had already Yeah, so I was 15.
52:47[laughter] I was 15, but I was I was
52:50crushed because I
52:53I don't know if you are old enough to
52:57remember how the Marine Corps
53:00commercials were at that time. You know,
53:03with the pulling the sword out of the
53:06rock. Oh.
53:08Yeah.
53:08>> You end up being a salesman for the next
53:10sort of five years, selling a bunch of
53:12different things.
53:13>> Correct.
53:14>> And eventually
53:17you became a pimp. [laughter]
53:19Is that true?
53:21>> Yeah.
53:22All All circumstantial.
53:24>> Circumstantial.
53:25>> Yeah, all circumstantial. So I am
53:28introduced to door-to-door sales, right?
53:32And I'm thinking, well, I kind of
53:35already have a leg up in this particular
53:37industry because I find that what stops
53:41most people from being really good
53:44at door-to-door sales is not feeling
53:46comfortable talking to people or talking
53:48to people that you don't know or, you
53:50know? And I have been doing that my
53:53whole life, so I didn't have that
53:54particular trepidation.
53:56And all of the things that I was selling
53:59were such good things and so useful to
54:03you as a person that I felt
54:06really good about being the person
54:08bringing them to you. Like I initially
54:10was selling
54:11books and magazines, you know? And I was
54:14a reader, and I wanted people to do more
54:17reading, and I get a commission. It was
54:19a great
54:20a perfect thing for me.
54:22Um as far as the um
54:28pimping part, I didn't sign up for that.
54:30I just knocked on a door
54:33where
54:34some ladies of the night
54:37resided, and they had just
54:41lost their guy in a tragic
54:44incident that was on the news.
54:48And um
54:50yeah, their pimp had been killed out
54:51there on the streets. Because I was in
54:53control of my life,
54:55if I really wanted to, I could quit what
54:58I was doing
54:59and help them.
55:00>> And these women trained you
55:03on how to do the job?
55:04>> Right, right.
55:04>> And you you say also showed him what it
55:06was like to be a man.
55:08>> Remember as I explained to you that I
55:10hadn't um
55:11grown up with women in my family really.
55:17So
55:19whatever [clears throat]
55:21conceptions I had about these ladies
55:24because of what they
55:26did for a living,
55:29they quickly dispelled all of that for
55:31me in very
55:34matter-of-fact ways and they would have
55:36conversations on a nightly basis
55:40that
55:42I know for a fact are responsible for me
55:45becoming a better man. Like the things
55:47that they taught me
55:49I needed to know. I needed to know how
55:52important hygiene is for a man and I
55:56needed to know um the things that women
56:00don't like
56:02about men and how easily fixable most of
56:06these things are and that was their
56:09discussion 24 hours a day is just how
56:13terrible men were and how awful they
56:15were and I was just determined that I
56:18was going to
56:19do my best to not be in those um
56:23situations, but they were
56:27[sighs] they were beyond helpful for me.
56:30>> Do you think God brought you back to
56:31comedy? You're sort of 20 years old at
56:33this point, but I I've heard you talk a
56:35lot about how prayer and God played a
56:37role in you coming back to comedy and
56:39really sort of orientating your career
56:41towards comedy.
56:42>> Because I needed to know which lane had
56:45potential for me
56:47um because my situations were so
56:50desperate
56:51that I was
56:53willing to try almost anything because I
56:56had the heart for it. You know what I
56:57mean? So
56:59I I just realized how weak I was
57:03morally
57:04if
57:07if I can make a fast buck. So I I I I
57:10was disappointed in myself that if
57:14somebody showed me the opportunity to
57:16sell drugs that I would even entertain
57:18it. I needed him to deliver me from me.
57:21I needed a
57:23opportunity for my life that would allow
57:27me to be a single parent, would allow me
57:30to be at home all day,
57:32work at night,
57:34something that I could
57:36do without having to look over my
57:38shoulder and
57:40and I asked for these things
57:42specifically when I didn't have any
57:46idea where to go next or which direction
57:50to head in.
57:51That is at the point where I'm
57:54asking God to please just send me
57:57something
57:59that meets all of this criteria. And if
58:01you do it,
58:03I will immediately show you how grateful
58:06I am
58:07based upon how hard I go at this thing,
58:10whatever it is.
58:11>> How did you know this is what he sent
58:13you?
58:15>> Um
58:16>> I mean I've got um
58:20a little [laughter]
58:21recreation of something that I heard you
58:23did in your bedroom. I read that you
58:25wrote down the names of 300 comedians
58:28and you made the decision that you were
58:29going to study all of them
58:31so that you could become the best.
58:33>> If I had this list, this would have been
58:35what I was trying to go for. On my list
58:38was not the comedians who were already
58:41household names and
58:44were
58:45what I deemed famous and out of there
58:47already. This was the 300 comedians
58:53that were working already and in my
58:55time, place, and era and
58:58so, you know, there was
59:02hundreds of comedians that never
59:05progressed past Comic View or never made
59:09it to Def Jam. These were the
59:11competition and I was trying to figure
59:13out,
59:14how do I get past these 300 names to
59:19even get my name considered with these
59:21guys that are already up here. That was
59:24um
59:26what I was trying to do.
59:27>> And you obsessed about it?
59:28>> Well, because they were funnier than me
59:31and that's what I had to fix.
59:33>> This is what I'm curious about is what
59:35it takes to become great.
59:37People don't see that. They don't see
59:39you writing 300 names down. They see you
59:41on stage now.
59:43And so when they struggle, sometimes
59:44they take that as evidence of their own
59:46inadequacy.
59:48So in your mind, from what you learned
59:49through this period, what does it take
59:51to become great? People look at you and
59:52think maybe he was always just great.
59:55Maybe he was born that way.
59:56>> I I often
59:58tell the story that um
1:00:01one of the first
1:00:04lessons that I learned was what
1:00:07separates an American from
1:00:11wonderful people from around the world.
1:00:13We believe that tomorrow can be better
1:00:16than today was and that if you can find
1:00:19a situation
1:00:21or a lane or a path,
1:00:25the only thing
1:00:27that never fails is if you outwork the
1:00:30people you're in competition with,
1:00:33you can beat them in this country.
1:00:35>> Did you do that?
1:00:36>> Yes.
1:00:38>> How?
1:00:38>> Yes, because everything that I have read
1:00:41and studied and seen led me to believe
1:00:45that that was the case. Like even as a
1:00:48kid entering the landscaping business, I
1:00:51only got this one lawn mower, but
1:00:54nothing stops me from getting 26
1:00:58clients. I can get 26 clients and even
1:01:01though you as a grown man, you don't
1:01:03have 26 contracts, me as a kid, I can
1:01:07outwork you. I can do more yards for
1:01:11cheaper
1:01:12and make those type of decisions
1:01:14guaranteeing me more work. And every
1:01:17time I tested this out,
1:01:19it worked. It worked for cutting grass,
1:01:22it worked for shoveling snow, it worked
1:01:25for selling door to door. As soon as I
1:01:28found out it takes me 300 noes
1:01:32to get 30 yeses.
1:01:35I no longer was bothered by the noes. My
1:01:38job is now to get more noes than you.
1:01:42And I know I'm going to be more
1:01:44successful than you because my goal
1:01:46today is to make 900 people tell me no
1:01:51because I want 90 sales. So no, even in
1:01:56stand up
1:01:58like I'm not judging these comedians
1:02:02on their background or their delivery or
1:02:05any of that. I'm watching their comedy
1:02:09and I'm counting how many times the
1:02:12people laugh.
1:02:14So everybody has a 15 minute set.
1:02:18I'm counting and tabulating
1:02:21how that went for you.
1:02:24Maybe you don't even have this
1:02:25information, but I know that in a 15
1:02:28minute
1:02:29stand up your name is good for nine
1:02:32laughs.
1:02:34And
1:02:35I know that I'm trying to come in at 16
1:02:38and 17 for the same amount of time.
1:02:41And so I'm not crossing your name off
1:02:45the list
1:02:46until I am out producing you.
1:02:49>> And you work seven days a week?
1:02:51>> Eight hours a day.
1:02:52>> Eight hours a day doing comedy or
1:02:54>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I thought that
1:02:56was
1:02:57the shortcut to getting better. If I
1:02:59treat this like a real job
1:03:01because I expect from it the things you
1:03:04get from a real job. If I spend eight
1:03:08hours a day on this, there's no way
1:03:12my competition can keep up with me. I I
1:03:17It seems like no brainer that if I work
1:03:19harder
1:03:20better things will happen.
1:03:22>> How many years did you spend before you
1:03:24got a quote, you know, they call it like
1:03:26a big break, a moment where you kind of
1:03:27notice that things are shifting. How
1:03:29many years of repetitions did you put in
1:03:31before you had a
1:03:33a moment where you go, hell,
1:03:34this is I think I might be
1:03:37able to really live off this and provide
1:03:38myself for this and I think I might be
1:03:40different. I think I might have broken
1:03:41out.
1:03:42>> Six years?
1:03:43>> Six years.
1:03:44>> Six years. So there was six years in
1:03:46between.
1:03:48Huh. Okay.
1:03:50I'm a stand-up comedian because remember
1:03:52when I won the competition part of the
1:03:54prize for the competition was that you
1:03:58got to open for a tour that was already
1:04:01happening.
1:04:02[snorts] So as soon as I won
1:04:05>> The competition at 20.
1:04:06>> Right.
1:04:07>> Yeah,
1:04:07in Oklahoma.
1:04:08>> Immediately it was I'm the five-minute
1:04:11opener
1:04:13to this particular show. So I'm
1:04:16immediately going in as a
1:04:18professional comedian, but it is
1:04:22six years from that point
1:04:25before the first milestone. In the
1:04:28meantime of that six years
1:04:31because I believe that the big break is
1:04:34inevitable, because I believe that
1:04:36that's how it works for everyone
1:04:39I'm just trying to make sure that I'm in
1:04:42the best possible
1:04:44position when that happens. So that's
1:04:46what
1:04:48makes me move to Sacramento initially
1:04:52for two years
1:04:54because they've got four five comedy
1:04:56places and
1:04:59white audiences that pack into these
1:05:01comedy rooms and
1:05:04I need to
1:05:06be as funny as I possibly can for these
1:05:09white audiences. I don't want to
1:05:11have to have a different set when I go
1:05:14to a all white audience. I don't want to
1:05:16have to be another part of me. I want to
1:05:19do a job at
1:05:22being funny, you know?
1:05:23So, by the time I
1:05:27achieve some modicum of that,
1:05:30now Def Jam is on and Comic View and I'm
1:05:34realizing, oh,
1:05:38I'm not that funny to my people. Like,
1:05:42I'm doing really well at white clubs,
1:05:45but as far as a black comedian goes, I'm
1:05:49bottom tier. Like, these
1:05:52other people are way far ahead of me.
1:05:54But just because
1:05:56I I haven't been in front of black
1:05:58audiences, you know? And so,
1:06:00then I go to Oakland and I spend two and
1:06:02a half years there where it's all black
1:06:06audiences and audiences with a high
1:06:08comedy
1:06:10IQ where they're seeing comedians from
1:06:12Los Angeles on a weekly basis. And so,
1:06:16that gave me another
1:06:19ground to break and until by the time I
1:06:22leave Oakland, now I'm at least
1:06:25not that I'm
1:06:27as funny as I need to be, but I'm at
1:06:29least equally funny if the audience is
1:06:32white
1:06:34predominantly as I am if it's black
1:06:37predominantly. And I found that at all
1:06:40times you can find the pattern
1:06:43to success. The quicker you find it, the
1:06:46quicker you can put it in action so that
1:06:48you know that it's the case. So, from my
1:06:51first special to my 14th special,
1:06:55I have been doing exactly everything the
1:06:58same way. I'm writing them the same way.
1:07:02I'm thinking about them in the same way
1:07:04and I'm turning them over in the same
1:07:07fashion as I was then because my job is
1:07:12to keep doing it till it doesn't work.
1:07:15As long as it continues to work, as long
1:07:18as I can tour the 100 cities,
1:07:21be better at this hour of comedy because
1:07:25I tried it out with people in the west
1:07:28and the east and the north and the
1:07:30south. I traveled it. I know which parts
1:07:34to add. I've taken out things that
1:07:36weren't funny enough and re fixed them
1:07:38and
1:07:40I now know that at the end of that 100
1:07:42once I've done 100 cities, I know that
1:07:45this can now go worldwide and this will
1:07:47be funny for the masses and do that and
1:07:51then immediately after I've done that, I
1:07:54have already written the next hour and I
1:07:57am now on the road again doing that 100
1:08:00cities in the next part of this
1:08:02conversation and so I have done that
1:08:06the entire time
1:08:08uh
1:08:09that I've been going.
1:08:11>> And you end up getting your first
1:08:12stand-up special at 35 years old called
1:08:15Katt Williams Live which I I recall
1:08:17seeing many many times. This is what I
1:08:19find fascinating about all the people I
1:08:20interview is your first comedy show was
1:08:2216.
1:08:23>> Yeah.
1:08:23>> You go back to comedy at 20 years old
1:08:25and from 20 to your first special is 15
1:08:28years.
1:08:29Now most people don't realize things
1:08:31take this long because we you know we're
1:08:33on Instagram and we see just the sort of
1:08:35end result and we assume you must have
1:08:37been always funny so we sort of discount
1:08:39the hard work and the repetitions and
1:08:41the you figuring out okay you'd finally
1:08:43cracked white audiences but you're
1:08:45not funny with black audiences so that's
1:08:46a whole another sort of transformation
1:08:48that needs to take place and I just tend
1:08:50to think that when we think about
1:08:52success
1:08:53for whatever reason we think it's quick
1:08:56and because of that again when it's not
1:08:58quick for us we go well it must not be
1:09:00for me or this industry must not be for
1:09:02me. And that's what I I love when I you
1:09:04know histories like yours cuz if I told
1:09:07any I think well if I told a lot of
1:09:08young people by the way it's going to
1:09:09take you 15 years
1:09:13to get your special
1:09:15I'm not sure how many people might sign
1:09:16up for that.
1:09:17>> If we're being honest if you'd have told
1:09:19me that
1:09:20I probably wouldn't have continued. I
1:09:23didn't see it like oh I'm just getting
1:09:25into this at 25 and it's going to be 35
1:09:29before I
1:09:30even qualify. Every time I would come to
1:09:33God and say specifically,
1:09:37I need something to happen,
1:09:39it would happen. That was
1:09:42probably the most surprising part of the
1:09:43book is you can literally see that I'm
1:09:47not doing anything special in these
1:09:50circumstances. Something unseen is
1:09:52taking me out of this situation and
1:09:55putting me over here.
1:09:56And if I do a good job, so be it. But if
1:09:59that doesn't work,
1:10:01I'm being put in another situation and
1:10:04given another opportunity. And
1:10:07yeah, I've just been handled with such
1:10:09great care. It it looks like, yeah, you
1:10:11did this 15 years before you made it.
1:10:15No, I was being successful every day.
1:10:17Every day that I was able to
1:10:20be a comedian
1:10:22and somehow make enough to live for
1:10:25today and then go on to the next show.
1:10:29I was more sure this was part of my
1:10:32destiny because
1:10:34I'm hitting the milestones sometimes so
1:10:37fast. Like I moved to Los Angeles
1:10:42and New Year's had just happened for
1:10:441999. We're going into the year 2000 and
1:10:47I'm saying, all right, I'm going to move
1:10:49to LA.
1:10:50I'm going to get on TV.
1:10:52Um I'm going to make myself a real
1:10:54actor.
1:10:55And I'm going to start going on these
1:10:57auditions and I'm going to get a movie.
1:10:59>> And did you get rejected?
1:11:02>> no.
1:11:03All of it happened
1:11:04the first year I'm there. The first year
1:11:07I'm in LA,
1:11:08I'm on Comic View.
1:11:10And so I'm on TV. And then I'm a
1:11:14legitimate actor on sitcoms when I get
1:11:17there. And then my first audition is
1:11:21Friday after next and I get the first
1:11:23audition. Like everything
1:11:25just kept happening in a positive way
1:11:29and specifically what I had privately
1:11:33been asking for.
1:11:34>> Did you think you were going to be
1:11:35great? You moved to LA, you start
1:11:37getting these opportunities. In your
1:11:39head, were you manifesting greatness?
1:11:40Did you think of yourself as being a
1:11:42great or were you just so focused on the
1:11:44pedals?
1:11:45>> I would have never said great.
1:11:46>> You never would have
1:11:47>> said great. No.
1:11:49Still to this day like I don't
1:11:52I don't view myself
1:11:54like that. Like
1:11:56we're all special.
1:11:58Like we all have the potential of
1:12:01greatness. And some people are
1:12:04cheated out of it just because of their
1:12:06circumstance or because of whatever, you
1:12:09know? But
1:12:11I believe that we all have the same
1:12:13potential. My job was
1:12:16trying to find out what it was for me.
1:12:19>> Were you scared of losing what you had?
1:12:21Sometimes people that come from the
1:12:23places you come from have a bit of a
1:12:24scarcity bias. Once they've seen
1:12:26the bottom, they either kind of go two
1:12:27ways often. They they're not scared of
1:12:29the bottom anymore or they have a
1:12:31scarcity bias where they work so hard
1:12:34because they realize it could all be
1:12:35taken away.
1:12:36Wondering what what camp you're in in
1:12:38that regard.
1:12:39>> Yeah, I never saw anything got get taken
1:12:41away. I always saw
1:12:44that um
1:12:46to the victor goes the spoils. And and
1:12:49my research, it was always
1:12:51the person who had worked the hardest
1:12:54while people weren't looking, who had
1:12:56been planning when they didn't know they
1:12:59were planning, when they had acted like
1:13:02the practice was as
1:13:05important as the work itself. It seemed
1:13:07to me like those were the people that
1:13:10progressed no matter
1:13:12what we were discussing. And so um
1:13:16I knew who the comedy greats were and I
1:13:19didn't envision ever
1:13:22being with them. I just knew
1:13:25who the middle of the road and the
1:13:28mediocre people were and I was
1:13:30determined to not be one of them.
1:13:34>> Through that period up until your first
1:13:35special, you
1:13:37become a father.
1:13:39Lots of things happen in your life. You
1:13:40know, I was reading about
1:13:42how many times you got arrested. It says
1:13:43you went to jail 30 times in total in
1:13:45your life roughly for gun charges, for
1:13:47drug marijuana charges.
1:13:49Um you get this special at 35 years old.
1:13:52Who paid for that special?
1:13:54>> I did.
1:13:55>> You paid for it yourself?
1:13:57>> Yeah, I paid for the next eight.
1:13:59>> Isn't that typical
1:14:01that you pay for your own specials?
1:14:04I thought you'd be given some sort of
1:14:05advance or
1:14:06>> I had met uh Prince Rogers Nelson
1:14:10before I ever
1:14:13had any type of job or knew what it was
1:14:16I was going to do for a living.
1:14:19And he was instrumental in my life just
1:14:22because
1:14:23he always wanted to discuss business. He
1:14:26always talked about business,
1:14:29how important it was. And there were
1:14:30certain things he ingrained in me long
1:14:33before I knew I was going to be in
1:14:36entertainment. And part of that was his
1:14:39lesson was
1:14:41the thing that you're going to be most
1:14:44proud of yourself if you maintain,
1:14:47right?
1:14:49Is the thing that you already are
1:14:52before you get started.
1:14:56So what he told me was
1:14:58every artist, no matter how successful
1:15:01they are at any given point,
1:15:04what they really wish they could be
1:15:07is independent.
1:15:09And the problem is
1:15:11you started off 100%
1:15:15independent.
1:15:16You were the only person that believed
1:15:18in you.
1:15:19And then you auctioned off parts
1:15:23of your independence and let other
1:15:25people take ownership in this thing
1:15:29because they believe in it more than you
1:15:31do and they'll put up the money and so
1:15:34on and so forth.
1:15:35So already before I had entered, I was
1:15:38determined
1:15:40that I would do a good enough job that
1:15:45if no one was beating down my door for
1:15:48these specials, that they would still be
1:15:50worth something. And by me paying for
1:15:53it, I could make sure that we hired the
1:15:55right director, the right producer, that
1:15:57the venue was right. So many things that
1:16:01sometimes aren't perfect in stand-up, I
1:16:04could make those things perfect with the
1:16:06production and then just shoot myself.
1:16:09So when we did the first one,
1:16:13that's where when we were introduced
1:16:15into the world of licensing. So here was
1:16:18this situation where I could do it
1:16:21myself, I could license it to
1:16:25a HBO or a Comedy Central.
1:16:28They would pay me for it.
1:16:30And I had already shot it, so I already
1:16:33am making a profit. And then they were
1:16:36going to put it on their platform for a
1:16:39month. And after a month, it then
1:16:41reverts back to me and I could sell it
1:16:44in DVDs. I was so thankful that no one
1:16:47believed in me. I was so thankful that
1:16:49nobody
1:16:50wanted my product because it gave me the
1:16:54opportunity to have it.
1:16:56>> When someone becomes hot, the vultures
1:16:58show up
1:16:59in entertainment, in business, in, you
1:17:01know, in lots of different industries.
1:17:03And the vultures come in and they they
1:17:05try and tell you things. And as you were
1:17:06describing there, it can sometimes
1:17:08change your incentives. It can make you
1:17:09more short-term. It can mean that they
1:17:11take your IP away or whatever it might
1:17:12be.
1:17:13For people that are maybe earlier in
1:17:15their career and are
1:17:18potentially going to, you know,
1:17:19encounter the the vultures, the vultures
1:17:21that are in Hollywood or in business or
1:17:23whatever that are going to come in and
1:17:24promise them something, you know, give
1:17:26them a a carrot now,
1:17:28but that might take something from them
1:17:29later. What what advice would you give
1:17:30to those people? You know, you've just
1:17:32given a wonderful piece of advice about
1:17:34maintaining independence as much as you
1:17:35can, betting on yourself. I heard that
1:17:37in there as well.
1:17:38Is there anything else people need to
1:17:39know about the way that sort of success
1:17:41plays out and maybe maybe a mistake you
1:17:44made
1:17:45in this regard? Maybe I'm asking this
1:17:46for myself because, you know,
1:17:49I'm 34 and I now live in Los Angeles.
1:17:53People are giving me lots of
1:17:53opportunities.
1:17:55>> Right.
1:17:56One of the most
1:17:58important things for my life is is
1:18:03self-worth.
1:18:05And I I would urge
1:18:09all artists
1:18:11to
1:18:12check your
1:18:14self-worth
1:18:15with yourself.
1:18:17If you're an artist of any kind,
1:18:20I want to know what are you worth?
1:18:24And
1:18:25I want you to be able to show me
1:18:28with your peer group
1:18:30what you're worth. Uh this is how it
1:18:32works. If you're a football player, you
1:18:34play this particular
1:18:36uh position and the people who play this
1:18:39position are getting these type of
1:18:42contracts. That's what the contract
1:18:44looks like for a guy who's a running
1:18:46back and you you have that
1:18:49because you need to know
1:18:51what your self-worth is.
1:18:53>> I have to ask you a question here.
1:18:55>> Yeah.
1:18:55>> This kid
1:18:58this kid was not someone
1:19:00from everything you described to me
1:19:02that would one would assume had much
1:19:04self-worth
1:19:05because you were in an environment where
1:19:08you were treated in such a way where one
1:19:09might conclude that they're
1:19:12they're not worthy.
1:19:13But but it seems like you understood
1:19:16your self-worth as an adult.
1:19:19And I say this because there'll be many
1:19:20people who have had their self-worth
1:19:21removed from them in their early
1:19:23experiences. It could have been a
1:19:24teacher that said something, a
1:19:25circumstance. So they're listening now
1:19:27and going, yeah, but Cat, um
1:19:30I don't think I'm worth much and I don't
1:19:32know how to pretend that I am.
1:19:34>> Yeah, I never
1:19:37I never I never spent one moment like
1:19:39that, and I would suggest you at home,
1:19:42um don't allow yourself
1:19:45to think that anymore. Your brain is not
1:19:50as smart
1:19:52as you think it is. Even if you have to
1:19:55lie to yourself about what your self
1:19:58worth is,
1:19:59that's what you should do.
1:20:01You are in control of what your self
1:20:03worth is, and there are no worthless
1:20:06people, there are no worthless
1:20:09endeavors. And if you read more, you
1:20:12would know
1:20:13that you are more than qualified for
1:20:17what it is you're trying to do, and
1:20:19people far less qualified than you,
1:20:23people with far less talent, people with
1:20:27far less opportunity
1:20:30have all been able to do this one thing.
1:20:33I was a in a better position than most
1:20:36because I wasn't basing my self worth on
1:20:39myself.
1:20:41I was
1:20:43putting all of that on the God that I
1:20:45serve and putting in him in a position
1:20:48to where it was
1:20:51Yeah.
1:20:52If you're real
1:20:54and you love me, and you know I love you
1:20:56too,
1:20:57then I don't think you're going to let
1:21:00me
1:21:02just get tossed about on the waves out
1:21:04here. I think that if I
1:21:08[sighs and gasps] um do my best
1:21:10to become a better person and to make
1:21:13better decisions, I think that that's
1:21:16going to be reciprocated. And I'm only
1:21:20asking that if I should ever get to a
1:21:22point where I don't know what to do,
1:21:25that I would be able to call on you and
1:21:28you'll help me figure this thing out.
1:21:30And um
1:21:32[gasps and sighs]
1:21:33otherwise, I personally wouldn't feel
1:21:35like God was real if it wasn't for the
1:21:38fact that I'm having these
1:21:39conversations, I'm asking for the things
1:21:42that I need, and I'm getting answers to
1:21:44them, and I'm following
1:21:46what I think the answer is saying. So
1:21:49you're able to see that all the mistakes
1:21:52were me. Like I thought the wrong thing,
1:21:55I was thinking the wrong thing, I wasn't
1:21:57aware of
1:21:58and I would just make the decisions, but
1:22:01you're not out here alone, and you
1:22:04shouldn't feel that.
1:22:05>> You definitely don't have a victim
1:22:07mindset.
1:22:09>> Cuz I haven't
1:22:10I haven't been victimized. Like you you
1:22:14you can't do that and be winning all the
1:22:17time.
1:22:18And I'm literally winning all the time.
1:22:21>> Some people will be thinking, Cat,
1:22:22listen, you described your childhood, a
1:22:25circumstance where you were born into a
1:22:26family where your parents didn't appear
1:22:27to care about you.
1:22:29Some might say you have ample
1:22:30opportunity to have a victim mindset.
1:22:35You were dealt not the best of cards in
1:22:37that earliest context.
1:22:39>> Right, but remind yourself
1:22:43I'm basing everything on these books I'm
1:22:45reading. And in these books that I'm
1:22:47reading,
1:22:48nobody did. I didn't read not one book
1:22:51of, hey, this person had everything, and
1:22:54it was all given to them, and everything
1:22:56was fine, and there was never any
1:22:59turmoil or strife in their life, and
1:23:01boy, they turned out great. I never read
1:23:04that book. I've seen it go the opposite
1:23:06way. I've seen stories where this man is
1:23:10raised as a prince his whole life and
1:23:13feels like he has a great understanding
1:23:17of how the world is, and then later
1:23:20finds out
1:23:22with the prince and the pauper how
1:23:24circumstantial
1:23:26everything is, that if you were in this
1:23:28situation, where would you be then? Um
1:23:31yeah, I had I had seen too much of that.
1:23:33I refuse to
1:23:36um look at the negative
1:23:38when the positive is so overwhelming.
1:23:43>> There should be a button just down below
1:23:45here. And if it says subscribed, you're
1:23:47already subscribed. If it says subscribe
1:23:49that means you're not yet. And if you're
1:23:51not subscribed, please could you do us a
1:23:52favor and hit that button. It helps to
1:23:53show more than you know. And according
1:23:55to the algorithm, you're someone that
1:23:57watches our show, but you haven't yet
1:23:58hit that button. Thank you so much.
1:24:01One of the things that was sprung to my
1:24:01mind as you're describing your
1:24:02relationship with God is when I reflect
1:24:05on that early experience where
1:24:07many of the beatings that you said you
1:24:09got from your parents originated from
1:24:11you having a a dispute
1:24:13with the religious teachings that they
1:24:15were sort of projecting onto you.
1:24:17One might assume, and I think I assumed
1:24:19that that would mean you turned away
1:24:21from religion and God as an as an adult.
1:24:23But it you sat here with a massive
1:24:26cross around your neck talking about how
1:24:28God has guided you throughout your life.
1:24:30How do you How do I square those two
1:24:31things?
1:24:32>> Well, I I early on in my life
1:24:36made [clears throat] a separation
1:24:37between God and a relationship with him
1:24:41from religious practices
1:24:44completely.
1:24:46So I made a separation between religion
1:24:50>> Yeah.
1:24:50>> and a relationship with God. And I
1:24:52assumed
1:24:54that for whatever nationality or creed
1:24:57or race that the person was,
1:25:00their personal religion was their way of
1:25:05explaining and handling and dealing with
1:25:08a relationship with God. And
1:25:12even as an adult, I found for the most
1:25:15part that
1:25:17regardless of what someone's religion
1:25:20is,
1:25:22the key thing is that
1:25:25in their religion they are attempting to
1:25:28get the people that follow them
1:25:31to be better people.
1:25:33And I I learned from studying other
1:25:37religions
1:25:39I I I just learned how much
1:25:42different religions are really agreeing
1:25:44with one another. There's not all of
1:25:46that much disagreement
1:25:49as far as
1:25:51what the goal is in religion. It it's
1:25:54really just
1:25:57acknowledging the fact that you have
1:25:59free will to make terrible decisions and
1:26:02to be an awful person and to do awful
1:26:05things to other people. But
1:26:08you would live a much better life if you
1:26:11had a list of things that you don't do,
1:26:14that lines that you won't cross. And if
1:26:17you feel an obligation to your creator,
1:26:20then there are ways that you show that.
1:26:23Giving back to others and
1:26:26a heightened level of humanity is what
1:26:29all religious people are after. So I I
1:26:31respect that
1:26:33even though I don't
1:26:35join the religion.
1:26:36>> Are you religious? Do do you Are you
1:26:38part of You're not part of a religion?
1:26:39>> No.
1:26:40>> Okay. Makes sense.
1:26:41>> No, just because after studying
1:26:44the religions,
1:26:46there's parts I agree with with all of
1:26:48them. At the end of the day, these are
1:26:50people.
1:26:51And most of these people are just trying
1:26:53to be better people. And religion is
1:26:55what they're using
1:26:57to do that. But
1:26:59I I couldn't imagine where the world
1:27:01would be if we didn't have that, if
1:27:03there weren't people actively trying to
1:27:05be better. So no, I separate
1:27:07that. Yeah, that's been helpful for me.
1:27:10>> How do you think about risk, how taking
1:27:12risks with your creativity? There's this
1:27:15video that I literally sent before we
1:27:17sat down to my team um where I sat here
1:27:19with Rick Rubin and it talks about risk.
1:27:22And I wanted to get your perspective on
1:27:24whether you agree.
1:27:25>> I think the risk and the success go hand
1:27:28in hand.
1:27:30It's only through the risk that the
1:27:32greatness is shown.
1:27:35>> So it's not possible to sort of produce
1:27:36more of the same and still be considered
1:27:38a great?
1:27:40>> I don't think so.
1:27:42I don't know. It
1:27:45doesn't seem right to me. Feels like
1:27:47there's this edge.
1:27:49There's tight rope.
1:27:51You're walking on the tight rope. And if
1:27:53you make it,
1:27:55it's really good.
1:27:59>> So factual, such a gem.
1:28:01In my particular case, I found that
1:28:05the only risk is betting on something
1:28:09where I'm not involved.
1:28:12So there's a risk in me betting on the
1:28:15Dallas Cowboys versus the Green Bay
1:28:18Packers
1:28:19because I have no bearing
1:28:21on
1:28:22what the Packers are going to do. And I
1:28:24have no bearing
1:28:26on what the Cowboys are going to do and
1:28:29I can't influence it in any way.
1:28:31That's risky.
1:28:34Betting on myself,
1:28:36zero risk.
1:28:38Zero risk.
1:28:41Whatever I need him to do in the
1:28:43situation,
1:28:45that's what he's going to do. He's going
1:28:47to come through.
1:28:48If he's got to out work, he's going to
1:28:50out work. If he's got to apologize,
1:28:52he'll apologize. If he's got to be
1:28:54vicious, he'll be vicious. If he's got
1:28:56to maneuver, he'll maneuver.
1:29:00I
1:29:01only
1:29:03have one betting on myself and my God. I
1:29:08don't consider it a risk if what I'm
1:29:11betting on is myself.
1:29:13>> Have you always been like that or has
1:29:15that
1:29:16confidence grown and compounded through
1:29:19time, experience, and evidence?
1:29:20>> I'm only basing it on the evidence. I
1:29:23didn't just agree that
1:29:26I have to get 300 no's to get 30 yeses.
1:29:30That wasn't what I agreed upon. It was
1:29:33me going as far as I can to find out how
1:29:38many no's does it take. I learned from
1:29:41the losses
1:29:43far more than I learned from the
1:29:45victories. But again, that's what makes
1:29:48it not a risk because I found that
1:29:51regardless of how it turns out.
1:29:54>> I'm curious if I sat 20 year old cat
1:29:56here that just won that comedy show at
1:29:58in Oklahoma, whether that cat would have
1:30:00had the aura and the confidence of this
1:30:02one. And I think the reason I care about
1:30:04that question is because that shows me
1:30:06what the journey has given you.
1:30:09And the journey changes people. It
1:30:10reinforces things in them, ideas that
1:30:12were like made of polystyrene become
1:30:14principles that are like made of
1:30:15titanium.
1:30:16>> No, they'll they'll tell you that I I
1:30:18always acted like this.
1:30:20>> Oh, okay.
1:30:20>> Like that's the whole thing. Like I
1:30:22haven't changed anything. Like later on
1:30:25they would say,
1:30:26yeah, he started wearing suits because,
1:30:28you know, people were wearing big suits
1:30:30at the No, no, no. I can show you me at
1:30:32five. I had on a suit. It's the same
1:30:34guy, same look on the face, same
1:30:36everything. Like
1:30:37like yeah, I made
1:30:40very little personal growth
1:30:43where it was unnecessary.
1:30:46I thought there was a lot of wonderful
1:30:48things about myself even younger and I
1:30:51wanted to maintain those things. I
1:30:52wanted to keep my curiosity. I wanted to
1:30:56keep the fact that I didn't just believe
1:30:58something just because I heard it that I
1:31:00thought that research
1:31:03was the answer, you know? I promise you
1:31:0620 year old cat was um
1:31:10outwardly just as confident. Like
1:31:13I had security
1:31:15as a comedian
1:31:17when I was making less than $10,000 a
1:31:19year doing stand up.
1:31:21[laughter]
1:31:22I'm saying I was never the guy that
1:31:25didn't believe. I always
1:31:27believed, but what I'm
1:31:29saying is that that confidence was based
1:31:33on what I believed in, not based upon
1:31:35what I was.
1:31:37>> When you look back on key moments in
1:31:38your career, do you see how
1:31:40a cat without the confidence might have
1:31:42ended up in a different place?
1:31:45No?
1:31:46I say that because it's so obvious to
1:31:47me. I don't even you know, I wasn't
1:31:48there, but I go someone with that level
1:31:50of confidence and belief is going to
1:31:52open doors that would have otherwise
1:31:53appeared to be concrete walls to someone
1:31:55else.
1:31:56>> Right. Yeah. No, and I I understand that
1:31:59it it might look like confidence, but um
1:32:03fear of failure should not be confused
1:32:05with confidence.
1:32:07I had a overwhelming fear of failure. I
1:32:11I thought failure is what happens when
1:32:14you don't work hard enough.
1:32:16I was going to be a rudderless ship
1:32:19if this doesn't work. So this has to
1:32:22work like every
1:32:23>> There was no plan B.
1:32:24>> Everything is counting on this, and this
1:32:27is the best thing that's ever presented
1:32:30itself in my life.
1:32:32I know from these books that you don't
1:32:34get unlimited chances.
1:32:38>> Did you take holidays?
1:32:40>> I was never in a position to
1:32:43take a
1:32:44>> But you've got special after special
1:32:45after special.
1:32:46>> Right, but I went
1:32:4810 15 years before the first milestone.
1:32:51So as soon as you cross into the part
1:32:53where, oh, I'm really in this business,
1:32:56now it becomes a whole different set of
1:32:58criteria. Now I'm guaranteed 15 minutes
1:33:01of fame. Nobody gets a chance to decide
1:33:04when they're going to be on
1:33:06and when they're washed. It just
1:33:08happens. And so my job is to see if I
1:33:11can get as much time out of this 15
1:33:13minutes as possible.
1:33:15And there are certain things that I
1:33:16can't afford to do. I can't afford to
1:33:19tell my whole story in my first few
1:33:22years of stand up, or else if I actually
1:33:25become something, what story am I even
1:33:28going to have to tell? There's nothing
1:33:31wonderful or complimentary or
1:33:34edifying
1:33:36about 35 arrests and going to jail 35
1:33:40times.
1:33:42But if I told you at the end that all
1:33:44the charges were going to be dropped for
1:33:46everything
1:33:48and you would never
1:33:51be in prison
1:33:52after 35
1:33:54like they will all go away,
1:33:56oh, well then I'm in then.
1:33:58But again,
1:34:01you don't know till the end. But I was
1:34:02cognizant that whether we like it or
1:34:05not, we're all leaving a story.
1:34:07I had just read so many of them that it
1:34:09was in my head. No, every everybody's
1:34:11life is a story.
1:34:13Like somebody's later on going to be
1:34:15looking at you to see what you did in
1:34:17certain circumstances and how it went
1:34:19for you.
1:34:20>> There's something really powerful that
1:34:22reminds me of
1:34:24part of my earlier journey when I was
1:34:26left university and I was shoplifting
1:34:28pizzas to feed myself. And I remember
1:34:29recording this video on this old smashed
1:34:31up phone of like my objective despair.
1:34:33So I'd open the fridge and go, look,
1:34:34there's nothing in it. And then I'd
1:34:36record a and then I'd show these bailiff
1:34:37letters that I had on my desk. And I was
1:34:39recording it because and then when you
1:34:40look at my diary, which I kept on these
1:34:41Facebook notes,
1:34:43I am telling myself
1:34:45I'm telling myself that I've been asked
1:34:47to record this because there's a
1:34:48documentary crew that are going to make
1:34:49a story about this someday.
1:34:51And when I look back on that, it wasn't
1:34:52true. But that's what I'd said to
1:34:54myself. And when you look back on that
1:34:56moment and you describe the objective
1:34:58nature of like this is a shitty
1:34:59situation,
1:35:01objectively, you being in the back of
1:35:03that park with
1:35:04several homeless people,
1:35:06objectively a shitty situation,
1:35:09you
1:35:10you realize that there's two ways you
1:35:12can take a shitty situation. You can see
1:35:14it as the destination
1:35:16or part of a story.
1:35:17>> Mhm.
1:35:18>> And if it's part of a story, it exists
1:35:20on an arc.
1:35:22And that I think can be liberating and
1:35:24allow you to act in such a way where you
1:35:26don't fall into despair or victimhood.
1:35:28And that's kind of what I've heard
1:35:29through the lines of what you're saying
1:35:30is because you read so many books, you
1:35:32understood narrative.
1:35:33And that the most objectively difficult
1:35:35parts of your life were actually just
1:35:36part of a narrative.
1:35:38You can make hell out of heaven or
1:35:39heaven out of hell based on the
1:35:41narrative in your own head.
1:35:42>> Yep.
1:35:43And And I had There were these books.
1:35:45I'm not sure what they were called, but
1:35:47they were these
1:35:48like destination books where they would
1:35:51give you the story of the characters,
1:35:54right? And they would get to a
1:35:55crossroads and they would say, okay, so
1:35:58it's set up.
1:36:00He can either go south
1:36:02and do this or he can go north and make
1:36:07this decision, but he can't do both. And
1:36:10that was a great joy for me is to pick
1:36:14one, see where that ended up
1:36:16and then go back and read it again with
1:36:20the different decisions to see how, you
1:36:23know? And I got so much out of that that
1:36:26I started incorporating that into my
1:36:29decision making process. I never want to
1:36:32make a move unless I know what is the
1:36:36best case scenario for this situation so
1:36:40that if I get there, I can know that
1:36:42that's what that is.
1:36:43And what's the worst possible thing that
1:36:46could happen in this situation? And if I
1:36:49can know both of those going in, I feel
1:36:53much better about
1:36:55any of the undertakings. So
1:36:58in order to keep myself honest in these
1:37:01decision making processes because
1:37:03sometimes you just are human and weak
1:37:05and you make the wrong decision.
1:37:08If it ever was in my head and I didn't
1:37:11know what decision to make, I would just
1:37:14immediately go, okay,
1:37:16what does the black superhero do
1:37:18in this case? And whatever that answer
1:37:21is, do that.
1:37:23Does he go into it with his head up
1:37:26as if it's going to work out fine and
1:37:28then it's able to look like his faith
1:37:30was rewarded? Yeah.
1:37:31>> Good life advice
1:37:33for everybody listening.
1:37:34>> Yeah, it works.
1:37:36>> What would the superhero do right now
1:37:38if this was a movie?
1:37:40>> I did it.
1:37:41I did it already.
1:37:43>> And you ask someone clearly that
1:37:45believes they're holding the pencil and
1:37:46writing their own story.
1:37:48>> Mhm.
1:37:49>> Again, this is this is not necessarily
1:37:52typical. Some people believe they're on
1:37:53a roller coaster and they're strapped in
1:37:54with a seat belt and it's going up and
1:37:56then down and left and right. And then
1:37:57some people believe they can author
1:37:59their story and that's quite clearly
1:38:00what you've done throughout your career.
1:38:02Because you've been the author.
1:38:05>> Right.
1:38:06>> How important are the people you choose
1:38:08to work with?
1:38:11>> you do get to pick.
1:38:13your family, you don't really get any
1:38:15say so. You just come into this world
1:38:17and then you're introduced to the people
1:38:20that make up your family. And in our
1:38:22business,
1:38:24that behind the scenes family
1:38:27can be the agency used to take you out
1:38:32of the equation
1:38:33or what is used to help
1:38:37solidify you.
1:38:39You know, we all know you don't want yes
1:38:41men, you don't want Are they Are you
1:38:43being threatened?
1:38:44>> Um I still have some time to go, but I'm
1:38:46being told your PR team are going to
1:38:48come and pull you out.
1:38:49>> No, don't worry about that.
1:38:51>> They're saying five minutes wrap up.
1:38:52>> done. You know, yeah, we know the time.
1:38:53We got the time.
1:38:54>> You being threatened.
1:38:56>> [laughter]
1:38:59>> I saw you BLINK TWICE, HONEY. [laughter]
1:39:02SO MUCH
1:39:05RIGHT.
1:39:05>> IT'S THE GUN GAME ROUND NOW.
1:39:07>> [laughter]
1:39:08>> RIGHT.
1:39:09YEAH.
1:39:11I I'm just
1:39:12Just know I'm I'm appreciative to be
1:39:15here with you.
1:39:16And And you having me and I And I know
1:39:19how difficult what it is you do is. So
1:39:22I'm I'm grateful.
1:39:24>> What I think about is representing your
1:39:26story in the best possible way that I
1:39:27can and in all of its shades. So that's
1:39:30why I like uh That's why we take the
1:39:32time cuz you know, I think You know, you
1:39:35know, good stories take time and they
1:39:36need space.
1:39:38>> Yeah.
1:39:38>> So it's I'm always at a bit of a My
1:39:40style of interviewing is always at a bit
1:39:41of a a challenge when there's not enough
1:39:43space.
1:39:44>> Mhm.
1:39:44>> know that cuz you said you've watched,
1:39:45so I like to listen. So it's
1:39:47>> Right, but the
1:39:49the superhero
1:39:51would tell you
1:39:52take all the space you need. [laughter]
1:39:54Do what you do. Don't Don't Don't let
1:39:56these people pressure you
1:39:58[laughter] by this schedule of mine. It
1:40:01has no bearing on anything.
1:40:04This is it.
1:40:05>> Right. You what
1:40:06>> trying to just leave the audience with
1:40:08is there's lots of people and there's
1:40:10specifically lots of young black men and
1:40:13young black women that I know will
1:40:14listen to the show because they
1:40:15they can relate and relatability is a
1:40:17huge part of inspiration. That's what
1:40:19the science says and what we you all
1:40:20know. And I want to I want to give them
1:40:23sort sort of an understanding of how to
1:40:25navigate from where they are now, the
1:40:28obstacles that they're going to
1:40:29experience in their hero's journey,
1:40:30which is going to be rejection. It's
1:40:32going to be accidentally working with
1:40:33the wrong co-founder or agent or person.
1:40:36It is going to be we talked a lot when
1:40:38we've covered that part, which is it's
1:40:39going to be a bit of patience. You're
1:40:41going to have to become a master of
1:40:42something and that's going to take time
1:40:43and sacrifice.
1:40:45What else do they need, Kat?
1:40:47As they go on their own hero's journey?
1:40:50>> I'm just so proud of um
1:40:53anybody that can take something out of
1:40:55this. It means
1:40:57it means you're doing a good job if you
1:40:59can find inspiration
1:41:01anywhere.
1:41:02Like I said, I find you something to
1:41:05believe in
1:41:07that isn't you.
1:41:09Find something that you can uh
1:41:12count on and I I found that early and
1:41:15I'm thankful that I found it
1:41:18early. Like everything that I learned
1:41:20about the universe and our planet and
1:41:23everything I learned
1:41:25made me believe that
1:41:28we were created by an entity that was
1:41:32smarter than us,
1:41:34cared about us, and that looked way far
1:41:39in the future to make sure that our
1:41:43personal needs were met.
1:41:45I don't think that they've
1:41:48found the location in the universe
1:41:52that's better for people than Earth is.
1:41:56And I don't think anything is
1:41:59coincidence. I don't even believe in
1:42:02coincidence because I've not seen the
1:42:04evidence of coincidence and I I would
1:42:07suggest that you not believe in
1:42:09coincidence either. I I believe that
1:42:11everything is part of a
1:42:13greater plan.
1:42:15The blessing of it is
1:42:17the more you believe it, the realer it
1:42:19becomes. And you can really track that
1:42:22in your own life. So that's about all I
1:42:25have.
1:42:26>> John and Brenda
1:42:27>> Mm.
1:42:28>> They're still alive?
1:42:29>> Yes, absolutely.
1:42:31>> They've seen you become
1:42:34a global success story.
1:42:36>> Mm.
1:42:37>> Has there ever been a conversation with
1:42:38John and Brenda, your parents,
1:42:40about your success? Are you in touch
1:42:42with them? How do you feel about them
1:42:44today?
1:42:45>> Well, as I said, I've um
1:42:47I've forgiven them and they didn't ask
1:42:49for that.
1:42:51>> They didn't ask for the forgiveness?
1:42:53>> Correct.
1:42:53>> You gave it to them?
1:42:55>> Yes, because forgiving people makes
1:42:57things easier for you, not easier for
1:43:00the people.
1:43:02Um
1:43:03yeah. Forgiveness is something that
1:43:05you're allowed to do selfishly.
1:43:08Um you're allowed to forgive people that
1:43:10have hurt you, just understanding
1:43:13that we all make mistakes and we all
1:43:15err. Now that I'm older, I see
1:43:19how much pressure must have been on them
1:43:21and how easy it would be to make
1:43:23a bad decision.
1:43:25>> What do they think of your success?
1:43:28>> I don't I don't uh
1:43:32I don't care,
1:43:34honestly. Um
1:43:37I did I didn't
1:43:38I didn't think they shouldn't be
1:43:41beating a celebrity.
1:43:43I thought
1:43:44they shouldn't have been
1:43:45treating a kid like that,
1:43:48just a kid,
1:43:49you know?
1:43:50So I had nothing to do with
1:43:53where I what I've achieved and I didn't
1:43:56I haven't been needing their approval on
1:44:00anything and I don't need for them to be
1:44:03proud of me or
1:44:06any of that. I'm I'm thankful that, you
1:44:08know, I got brought into this world.
1:44:10>> And
1:44:11>> you're not in contact with them even
1:44:12though you have forgiven them?
1:44:14>> We We've been in contact uh
1:44:16throughout my life. I've been available
1:44:18if they needed me, and I still have
1:44:20kids, and now they have their
1:44:21grandparents, and now I'm a grandfather
1:44:23as well. So
1:44:25I couldn't cut them completely out of my
1:44:28life. But um my decision at 13
1:44:33uh
1:44:34is the same as my decision at 55.
1:44:37>> Your demeanor is different today
1:44:39versus other interviews I've seen you
1:44:41in.
1:44:42You seem a little bit more stoic.
1:44:45>> Um I'm not a fan of the subject matter.
1:44:48>> Which subject matter?
1:44:49>> Like I'm not my I'm not my biggest fan.
1:44:52Like I don't I'm not head over heels
1:44:55about Cat Williams and love to talk
1:44:57about him and see pictures of him and
1:45:00>> And you knew that was going to happen
1:45:00today.
1:45:01>> Well, I'm saying
1:45:03this not my preferred
1:45:05subject matter. Generally, when you see
1:45:07me,
1:45:07I'm talking about other things.
1:45:09[laughter]
1:45:11This This is This is painful
1:45:15primarily, you know? And um yeah,
1:45:18because I don't
1:45:20I need to tell my story, but I don't
1:45:23need
1:45:24a young person
1:45:26hearing this to think that any of these
1:45:29were smart decisions. Um we certainly
1:45:32don't live in a world where anyone as a
1:45:35teenager could afford to leave home and
1:45:39just be out in the world
1:45:41hoping God is
1:45:43[laughter]
1:45:44blessing you. Like it's a terrible
1:45:46situa- All of the decisions horrible. Um
1:45:50but I'm telling the story so that you
1:45:53understand that if you didn't have
1:45:55anything in the world except your belief
1:45:59in God,
1:46:01you could still make it.
1:46:03>> Mm.
1:46:03>> You know? So again, I I yeah, I have to
1:46:06be kind of stoic because I'm not
1:46:09I don't enjoy bashing
1:46:13my family members even if they are
1:46:15deserving of it. I don't get anything
1:46:18out of that.
1:46:19>> And does it still hurt?
1:46:21You used the word painful.
1:46:26>> I just want to say nice things about
1:46:28him.
1:46:29And I would if that were possible.
1:46:31>> Cat, we have a closing tradition on this
1:46:33podcast where the last guest leaves a
1:46:34question for the next not knowing who
1:46:35they're leaving it for.
1:46:36>> Got it.
1:46:36>> And the question left for you
1:46:38is what is the most important piece of
1:46:40advice
1:46:42that you would offer to the young?
1:46:47>> Time time is the most
1:46:52important thing in your journey. The
1:46:54fact that you don't know how much time
1:46:57you've been allotted in this life. You
1:46:59don't know how many years that equals
1:47:02out to.
1:47:03Um
1:47:04you're only in charge of what you do
1:47:07with your time.
1:47:09And you can reset this life as many
1:47:12times as you need to.
1:47:14That is in your control. You can
1:47:16restart.
1:47:17You can go a different direction. You
1:47:20can try things.
1:47:22I found that
1:47:26the only regret you have later in life
1:47:28is the things you didn't give a chance,
1:47:31the opportunities you didn't go for, the
1:47:34things you didn't try.
1:47:36And then there's a chance that you'll
1:47:37never find out what you were meant to
1:47:40do. You never find your purpose in life.
1:47:43And I found that those are the only
1:47:46people
1:47:47that end up unhappy, not
1:47:50people who might have
1:47:52chosen the wrong path or any of that.
1:47:54And I in the reading of books I found
1:47:57out that you can make it at odd times in
1:48:00your life. There are hundreds of stories
1:48:03of people that never did one wonderful
1:48:06or notable thing in their life until
1:48:09they were 65 years old. And I would try
1:48:13to find
1:48:14what kept them going all the way
1:48:18being a failure all the way through 64
1:48:22and then at 65 now you finally find it
1:48:26because time is all you got and you have
1:48:28nothing better to do than to find out
1:48:30your real self worth and where your life
1:48:33should go. So by all means treat every
1:48:36day as close to the last one as you can.
1:48:40Um if that means the interview has to go
1:48:422 hours longer than scheduled so what
1:48:46you deal with that as you're in there
1:48:49and if it's time to do healing do it
1:48:52even if it's painful.
1:48:54Okay.
1:48:55>> Cat, thank you. The book um going to
1:48:57link it below. Highly recommend you read
1:48:58it cuz it is it's confronting and
1:49:00vulnerable and inspiring and all the
1:49:01same measures and it really is truly a
1:49:03hero's journey. Um so please do go and
1:49:05buy the book. I'm going to link it
1:49:07below.
1:49:08Uh I um I can't wait for you to sign
1:49:09this to me because it's one of my
1:49:10favorites. But also Cat has a podcast
1:49:13called According to Cat
1:49:14which is launching um and I'm going to
1:49:16put a link to that below as well which
1:49:18is really really exciting. Um I don't
1:49:19need the competition in this medium.
1:49:22>> And I and I shall not be. Don't worry.
1:49:23>> But it's I've heard I've heard some
1:49:25things about it and it sounds amazing as
1:49:27is the book. So Cat, thank you so much
1:49:28for your generosity. I really really
1:49:29appreciate it.
1:49:30>> Appreciate it.
1:49:30>> Um and I can't wait to see your hero's
1:49:32journey continue.
1:49:33>> Thank you.
1:49:34>> YouTube have this new crazy algorithm
1:49:35where they know exactly what video you
1:49:37would like to watch next based on AI and
1:49:40all of your viewing behavior. And the
1:49:41algorithm says that this video is the
1:49:44perfect video for you. It's different
1:49:46for everybody looking right now. Check
1:49:48this video out and I bet you you might
1:49:50love it.

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