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Kanye West in 2005— Charlie Rose Interview — Transcript

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0:00Kanye West is here. His debut album, The
0:03College Drop, has sold over 2.5 million
0:05copies, earned him 10 Grammy
0:07nominations, including best new artist,
0:10song of the year, album of the year, and
0:12more. Here is a look at his work.
0:14February 10th will mark the launch of
0:16the Kanye West Foundation, which aims to
0:18keep kids in school. I am pleased to
0:20have him here at this table for the
0:22first time uh as we look at the week
0:24ahead of the Grammys. Welcome.
0:27What's going on? what's going on is
0:29right. uh 10 Grammy nominations
0:31including all those things that I said
0:33uh album of the year album of the year
0:35producer for the diary of Alicia Keys
0:37who is here song of the year new for
0:40Jesus Walks new artist you best R&B song
0:43rap solo performance rap song
0:45performance rap song collaboration rap
0:48song Jesus walks again rap album the all
0:50of that you have been nominated for
0:53who is it that you would like to say I
0:55told you so I told you so I told you so
0:58oh
0:59Man, the list is so long. I don't know
1:01where to start. Do I start with uh my my
1:05uh gym teacher back in high school who I
1:08told a freshman year I was about to get
1:09a deal and take Crisscross out and then
1:11she came to me senior year like what
1:12happened to your record deal? Or do I
1:14tell like uh all the uh label execs that
1:17didn't sign me and they said, "Who's
1:18going to who's going to believe a rapper
1:20that dresses like Carlton?" Or do I
1:22do I
1:23And then they would say, "We'll call
1:24you."
1:24Yeah. Yeah. I got hit with those words a
1:26few times. Do I do I do I say it to um
1:30the magazines where I I beg for covers
1:32or the or said that I I felt like the
1:35album should get a higher rating and
1:37people say what's wrong with him? You
1:39know,
1:40I just felt if if you if you put your
1:44heart into something and you had a grasp
1:45on what was really good and you knew you
1:47delivered a good product, you have the
1:49right to defend your product after
1:51people would criticize it. You have the
1:53right to call people and say, "Man, I
1:55feel like it deserves something better."
1:57If if you're in school, if you're the
1:58validictorian, if you're someone that
1:59always gets all A's and you get a B,
2:01you're going to go to professor and try
2:03to get your your grade changed. So, I
2:06feel like the Grammys kind of stamped
2:07and now everybody feels like it's okay
2:10to like me. You know, it was it was
2:11really different when it came out and
2:13they didn't know if it was cool enough
2:15to say you like Kanye yet, you know. So
2:18uh stay with that idea though because
2:21I'm interested in how you and why you
2:24believe all of this has happened.
2:26I mean what was it that you did and and
2:30why was what you have done this year
2:32with this album receive such a response?
2:36I just think it was in in God's plan. I
2:39think I survived my accident.
2:42We'll come back to that in a moment.
2:43Yeah. I think I think he just has me
2:45here for a reason that I have something
2:46to say and that my ultimate goal is to
2:49help people. So he kept me here to
2:51somehow help other people. It's not
2:53just, you know, me doing this album
2:55where it could be me giving someone else
2:56a hit single, me giving someone some
2:58advice that they can carry on, me giving
3:00them uh a song that will help them
3:02through their day or me um, you know,
3:04starting this foundation. And I think
3:06God, he just puts up with this, you
3:07know, the uh the bravado, you know, he
3:10just he just deals with it, you know,
3:12because I'm still a human being like,
3:14[laughter]
3:15but I definitely I'm still one of his
3:16soldiers, though, you know.
3:17Yeah. But the Lord says it's okay.
3:18That's kind
3:19Yeah.
3:19Is that what he says? Yeah. Or she says,
3:21whoever. Uh stay with the the the I I'll
3:24come back to the accident in a moment
3:26because it's important and central to
3:27your own life experience because of of
3:29of how Well, you tell me what happened
3:32in October of 2002. Well, um I was
3:36driving from the studio. I had a a long
3:38day where I was working on like three
3:40different sessions and um I think I had
3:44about a 10-minute ride to the hotel and
3:46I fell asleep at the wheel and I was um
3:48woken by a steering wheel hitting my
3:50mouth at 50 miles per hour. And I looked
3:53in the rear view and I saw my face
3:55getting bigger like something off the
3:56movies like Teen Wolf or something that
3:58you use special effects for. Yeah,
4:00but I actually I could see the
4:02separation in my jaw right here. So, I
4:04thought it was just broken in one place
4:06and I found out later it was broken in
4:07three places. And when the cops finally
4:09came, they had to put this like the um
4:13the neck brace like right here up
4:15against the chin right where it was
4:16broken. So, it was excruciating pain.
4:18And um they pulled me out in the
4:21stretcher. It was like freezing cold in
4:23the ambulance. And once I got to the
4:25hospital, they kept on asking me the
4:27same questions. And I remember screaming
4:29out because uh
4:32I I remember screaming out and saying,
4:33"Yo, why do you keep on asking me
4:35questions? You don't you see my mouth is
4:36broken?" That was the the bad part about
4:39it. The good part about it was the
4:41recovery. The I used Through the Wire
4:45and this entire album as um my
4:49rehabilitation. It was the first
4:50opportunity I had to tell people I'm not
4:52going to the studio. And instead of uh
4:56staying at the hotel, I snuck in and I
4:58made songs that inspired me. Songs that
5:01gave me life. I feel like this album was
5:04kind of like my angel that helped heal
5:07me. And
5:08because it helped heal you in what way?
5:11Um it it revived my spirits.
5:14It was the songs, you know. I couldn't
5:15eat. I couldn't enjoy food. There was a
5:16lot of things I couldn't do. But one
5:18thing I could do is go to the studio and
5:20turn it up loud. And that's the reason
5:21why a lot of the music on there are are,
5:24you know, they they they evoke a certain
5:26emotion. They raise your spirits. Uh any
5:29situation you're going through from
5:30spaceships, I've been working this grave
5:33shift and I ain't made it. I wish I
5:37could buy me a spaceship and fly. And
5:40anybody that's in that situation, they
5:42they listen to the song and it'll be
5:43like this spaceship. So being that I
5:45feel like this album was my angel. Just
5:47imagine if you in the hospital bed and
5:49someone came through and healed you and
5:52when you finally recovered, you said,
5:54"Oh, I got this person that heals people
5:57and I want I want you to you to meet
5:59them."
5:59So, you let the whole world meet him.
6:01And then people have the nerve to
6:03criticize this person that's helped you
6:05so much. And that's the way I felt when
6:07people were criticizing my album when it
6:09first came out. I'm like, "No, you
6:11don't. It's not just an album. You don't
6:12understand what it's
6:13Was it mainly because of the title Jesus
6:15Walks? Was that what?
6:17No, it wasn't just Jesus Walks. Every
6:19song, I swear to you, every song. See,
6:21people try to pinpoint Jesus Walks, but
6:23the entire album is spiritual.
6:26It's like no Stella Award nomination can
6:28take away from the impact of what this
6:31does for people. when they hear family
6:33business, when they hear through the
6:34wire, if they've been in an accident,
6:36when when someone whose boyfriend just
6:38got locked up for uh for selling drugs
6:40because he couldn't find a job and he
6:42had three uh three strikes and he had
6:44the X on his back, so there was no work
6:46opportunities. When he hears when she
6:48hears drug dealing just to get by, stack
6:51your money till it gets skyh high. We
6:55wasn't supposed to make it past 25.
6:57Jokes on you, we still alive. throw your
7:00hands up in the sky and say, "We don't
7:03care what people say." That right there
7:06is is like is like a family member
7:08speaking to them. This the the music on
7:11this CD was I was only the vessel for
7:14this. God was in the studio with me when
7:16I was working. Even even I I don't know
7:19in the future. I don't know if I'll be
7:21able to make anything like this because
7:24this was my healing process. This was my
7:26rehabilitation CD. So this was this this
7:30came right directly from where you were
7:31in the inside.
7:32Yes. Yeah.
7:34And you worry about whether you can do
7:35it again.
7:36Yeah. I always worry. But I I just have
7:38to keep making good music, the best
7:40music I can. I can even get more skill.
7:43But the whole thing is to always have
7:44that heart because it's not about it's
7:47people it's people that might be better
7:49programmers, better better rappers, but
7:52where I think I I really won is I had
7:54the heart. I I had the heart to to
7:57survive through that. you could access
7:58it.
7:58Yeah.
8:01Did you always want to be a rapper? I
8:04mean, you know, you started as a
8:05producer.
8:06Yeah. Every every black kid wants to be
8:08a rapper.
8:08Is that right? Yeah.
8:09Yeah. Every every every little black kid
8:11wants to be a rapper or NBA player or uh
8:15do what their father does or be a doctor
8:17or, you know, all these different uh
8:19careers. When you're growing up, you see
8:21Run DMC, you want to see, you see LL
8:23Cooj. But I really started taking it
8:25seriously like in the seventh grade
8:28that you could be.
8:29Yeah. I really thought that I was going
8:30to come out and like just take
8:32crisscross out like I pinpointed the the
8:35rappers that were still like my age, you
8:37know.
8:37And and in the college dropout, you are
8:39saying to every every kid in any urban
8:43or rural neighborhood in America, black
8:45or white,
8:46that you can make it if you believe in
8:48yourself. Is that what you're saying?
8:50And you don't have to have a college
8:52diploma to make it.
8:54Yeah. Well, well, I I always tell people
8:56college is a choice. High school is a
8:58necessity, but college is a choice. A
9:00lot of times people go to school because
9:02it's what their parents want to do, want
9:03them to do. They're chasing someone
9:05else's dream. And so many people that
9:07are are majoring in um well uh stuff.
9:11Yeah. You know, if if you go to school,
9:13like, okay, if you're picking out
9:15Christmas gifts, you might have have
9:16$500 and you got this list and you know
9:18exactly what you want to get.
9:21People go to school and they're spending
9:22$8,000, $10,000 a year, 15,000, and they
9:26have no idea what they want. Just stop.
9:29Just stop. Wait a second before you sign
9:31all those loans, before you put yourself
9:33in debt for the rest of your life and
9:35say, "What do I want to do with my
9:36life?" Sometimes you just need a couple
9:38years after high school just to get
9:40yourself together,
9:41you know, and that's
9:42in other words, even you may not be
9:44right for college today, but if you go
9:45off and do something else, whether it's
9:47the military, whatever you might do.
9:48Yeah.
9:49And and or go to work or whatever you
9:51might do. If you come back after two
9:54years or three years and go to college,
9:55college will be more meaningful and
9:57therefore you get more out of it and
9:58therefore you'll benefit from it better
9:59if college is what's meant for you.
10:01because it's a lot of professions that
10:03don't involve college.
10:04But everybody can't be an NBA player and
10:06everybody can't be a a rap star and
10:08everybody can't be
10:08but you need you need you need you need
10:10plumbers. You need electricians. There's
10:12a lot of people that make the same thing
10:13or more than people with college
10:15degrees. And ultimately it's about being
10:17happy, having a happy life, raising your
10:20family. I I feel like the key to life is
10:22family itself. So, if you can provide
10:24for your family, and this is speaking
10:25from a male point of view, and be happy,
10:29then that's that's that's all you need.
10:31It's not about that college degree that
10:33everybody says that you you're supposed
10:34to have. It's so many people with
10:36college degrees that are not happy with
10:38their life. If you have a dream and
10:40you're good enough, because sometimes
10:42people, it's a difference between a
10:43dream and just being delusional. Don't
10:45just drop out of school. Like, I was
10:46already making money in the music
10:47industry. I had a I had a platinum
10:49plaque before I dropped out of school,
10:51right? And I had a deal on the table
10:53with Colombia with Sony,
10:54right?
10:55And I I I I flew in and I remember
10:57saying,
10:59"I'm I'm going to be bigger than
11:00Jermaine Depri. I'm going to be bigger
11:02than Michael Jackson." And I didn't
11:04realize that the person I was talking to
11:05was actually Jermaine Depri's father or
11:07whatever. So, [laughter] uh, you know,
11:09so I really been wilding out since day
11:11one. So, this is not new. People say,
11:12"Oh, K, you got all big and you started
11:14whing out." Like, no. You w it out?
11:15Yeah. I was like in eighth grade. They
11:17they canceled the talent show. They said
11:19this is not going to be the Kanye West
11:20show. So,
11:22no, they they say that.
11:23Yeah. So, so this is like this is not
11:25some after the fame thing, you know.
11:27Yeah. Well, Kanye means what? The
11:29appointed one. What does it mean?
11:30It means Kanye means the only one.
11:32The only one.
11:33Yeah.
11:34It's kind of appropriate.
11:36Let's talk a bit about your parents.
11:38Okay.
11:38Your mother. Tell me about your mother.
11:41My mother was um uh head of the English
11:44department when I actually went to that
11:46school
11:46at Chicago State.
11:48Chicago State. Chicago State University.
11:50And uh my father, he actually um he had
11:55so many degrees.
11:56Yeah.
11:57While he was searching for what he
11:58wanted to do that sometimes I forget the
12:00exact ones, but it was something where
12:02he used to teach. He was a professor at
12:03the school where my mother worked at
12:05when they met. He he has like all types
12:08of masters. They split when you were
12:10young.
12:10Yeah, when I was uh 3 years old.
12:12And what does he think of this?
12:14He He loves it.
12:15He loves it.
12:15Yeah. My father is both my mother and my
12:18father really had me in the church a
12:19lot. But my father really when I would
12:21come home
12:23like we would be driving home from
12:24Delaware to um to me to Maryland and
12:28we'll be listening to the radio and
12:29they'll play like maybe like a song like
12:31Do Me Baby or or something that was
12:33involving a triangle relationship and
12:35I'll be like and he'll turn it down.
12:37I'll say, "What's wrong with that song?
12:38It's talking about love." And he'll
12:40explain to me how we stay in uh in PG
12:43and DC and how this is one of the murder
12:45capitals of the world and how most of
12:46these murders are surrounded around
12:48triangle relationships. You slept with
12:50my girl, I'mma kill you. And he
12:52explained how these songs, they have
12:55hidden agendas and negative
12:57connotations, even though it seems like
12:58they're talking about love. So it so for
13:01that three-hour ride, instead of getting
13:03to hear the radio, I would have to hear
13:04him break down social issues and um and
13:08uh the the black father not being in the
13:11home or uh triangle relationships. And
13:13when it was time for me to rap, I didn't
13:16rap about that. I wrapped about a bunch
13:17of BS, but I I I started to hang out
13:20with Dead Presidents and Quali and
13:22Common. And they kind of they they
13:24showed me how to rap about this stuff
13:26and still make it sound cool. And when
13:28they gave me that, it flew out of me. It
13:31started flowing. I wrote I wrote all
13:32falls down in one night, you know.
13:34Yeah. In one night.
13:36Yeah.
13:36Now, what did they give you, though?
13:37They They showed you how to to do what?
13:40To to rap about things
13:43that came from your heart.
13:44Yeah. That came from my heart that
13:45weren't particularly the cool thing. you
13:46know, I got a throwback on. I got a gun
13:49or, you know, like I've never had I
13:51never shot a gun before in my life, you
13:53know,
13:53and but I would say it in raps because
13:55it seemed like it seemed like what I was
13:57supposed to do. And they showed me how
13:59to word what it was you had to say and
14:02still make it, you know, uh, tangible to
14:04a rap listener. And right when
14:06What was that that they showed you? How
14:08to make it tangible to a rap listener.
14:11A different message, but tangible to a
14:13rap listener. Because rap is like it has
14:16a certain it has a certain edge to it.
14:18It has a certain you you you you gotta
14:21speak whatever you say with conviction.
14:23But it will always be if you say okay I
14:25got a gun. You will say like yo I got a
14:27gun you know and you'll say uh I uh can
14:31I help you? You'll say can I help you?
14:34And say it in a different way. But they
14:36showed me how to say can I help you like
14:38can I help you?
14:39Yeah. And that's all that this album is.
14:41It's can't I help you? Can't I help you?
14:45So it's like you give that so people
14:47don't actually realize that they're
14:49getting like positive energy because it
14:50it sounds like the exact same thing.
14:52It's a trick, you know.
14:53Go ahead. It's a what?
14:54It's a trick. Like Jesus walks is a
14:56trick. Um they they told me it would
14:58never be played on the radio. So the the
14:59second verse was reverse psychology for
15:01program directors. They they say you can
15:03rap by anything except for Jesus, right?
15:06Is it Oh, no. We could play that. Can
15:08play Jesus. What you what that boy talk
15:11about? I don't know what he talking
15:12about. [laughter]
15:13Yeah.
15:14And your this goes back to some of the
15:16things your father taught you.
15:17Yeah. Yeah.
15:18And he Where did you find the religion?
15:21My father, my grandmother falling asleep
15:23fall asleep on my grandmother's chest
15:25back when I was like 8 years old. And it
15:28was always I was raised as um I was
15:30raised as a Christian. So that's what I
15:32believe. I believe Jesus died for our
15:34sins. One issue though I have is that I
15:37don't believe that people that don't
15:39believe that are going to hell though.
15:41But you're supposed to believe that when
15:43you're a Christian. I don't believe that
15:45Muslims are going to hell. I don't
15:47believe that a a newborn baby that dies
15:50in a fire two days uh after he was born
15:53that didn't get a chance to get baptized
15:55is going to hell. You think because he
15:57run some water over his head like that
15:59oh that makes a difference to God?
16:01No it doesn't. You're right.
16:03No. How could I be right the that's not
16:05what the Bible says no that's not what
16:06the Bible says can't be because but
16:08because but because but because but
16:08because a loving God wouldn't have that
16:09attitude
16:10that's what I feel but there's so many
16:11people that disagree with me and so many
16:13people that listen to Jesus walks and
16:15they're going to look at this interview
16:16they're going to say how do you believe
16:18Jesus walks but you don't believe
16:20everybody that's not a Christian is
16:21going to hell
16:22and the thing is I'm I I have
16:27my relationship with God I feel like I I
16:30feel like I was at the gates in that
16:32accident and he told me to go back and
16:34live my life.
16:37Only thing promised is that only thing
16:39promised is death. So basically life is
16:42like a game. So you had to play the game
16:45the way you want to play it.
16:47And how have you chosen to play it?
16:50You see how I play it. I get on TV and
16:52say stuff to spark people's attention. I
16:55make songs that are not supposed to be
16:56on the radio. I help I help artists that
16:59need help. I I I I I try to put my
17:02friends in better positions. I try to to
17:03to change music and use that that
17:07ability to maybe change the world.
17:09Now, do you think you're a better person
17:11say than than a rapper who who also
17:14reflect 50 Cents reflects his
17:18experience?
17:18Yeah.
17:19Do you think what you were doing by
17:20reflecting your experience is better
17:22than him or not or
17:24No. No. Oh, it would be
17:25it just
17:26that would be hypocritical to ever say
17:27that you're a better person than anybody
17:29because a gangster rapper could be a way
17:32nicer person like like people think 50
17:35Cent is way nicer than me.
17:37You know what I'm saying? Because cuz
17:38people talk to me and I'll be like
17:40Yeah. You know what I'm saying? They
17:41were like whoa. you know, so so um if
17:45you take like um a 50 C take a song like
17:48in the club and even though it's talking
17:50about violence, the ultimate goal of the
17:53song is to make you feel good, to make
17:55you dance. It's people who who have a
17:57birth that's the birthday party anthem.
18:00And that's that's what I say on my
18:01album, too. I use profanity and I'll
18:03say, "Nah, now throw your mother hands,
18:05get them hot." Right?
18:06And that would be stuff that takes it
18:08out of contingency of being considered
18:10spiritual. But when I say mother, that
18:13is I'm not using it to curse someone,
18:16but I'm speaking exactly like how I
18:18spoke when I was broke, how I speak on
18:20an everyday basis, how we all speak.
18:21And you're also using language that
18:23people are used to hearing.
18:24Yeah. And you and and you relate. It's
18:27like when you go and you talk to
18:30you you speak to people go and speak to
18:32kids and it'll be that one speaker that
18:34comes in and he actually says a curse
18:36word. That curse word sparks everybody's
18:38attention and right when everybody's
18:40open, he gives you all this information.
18:41He sneaks it in. And that's kind of what
18:43I did. I I I spit a lot of stuff where
18:45it's like we laugh to keep from crying.
18:48You know, I I I put a couple punchlines
18:51here and there so you can swallow the
18:53pill. But certain songs that I not just
18:55Jesus Walks, All Falls Down was
18:58groundbreaking.
18:59It is said about you that you wrote
19:00terrific beats.
19:02Mhm.
19:02That you were very good at that.
19:03Yeah.
19:04What is that? Well, it's it's producing
19:07beats. It's like um
19:09or producing beats.
19:10Yeah. Like I I sample and I program
19:14drums.
19:14Yeah.
19:15And um
19:17And you accelerate the speed.
19:18Yeah. I speed up beats and
19:20But you keep the sound.
19:21Yeah. But I I keep a soulful sound and a
19:24lot of times people
19:25You lay the lyrics on top of that or the
19:26voice.
19:27Yeah. That that's a form of production
19:28and grabbing the right artist to put on
19:30it.
19:30Did you do better of that than anybody
19:31else? Was that something you were really
19:32good at?
19:34anybody else I personally knew I was
19:36better than. But you know, I didn't know
19:38Dre or Timberlin Forel at the time. But
19:41I I would say that I was one of the
19:43best. My father asked me that question
19:44back when I was 15. I was really or
19:47maybe I was 16. He said, "I was a I was
19:49a photographer um back in Atlanta. I'll
19:52say that, you know, I was pretty good. I
19:54wasn't one of the best, but son, what
19:55what do you think you stand?" And I
19:57looked at him. I said, "I am the best."
20:00And this is 16. And that was a little
20:02delusional.
20:02Where do you think that came from? this
20:04sense of
20:05for my grandfather. My grandfather on my
20:06mother's side. If you could hear him
20:08talk.
20:09Yeah. He believed in himself.
20:10He believed in himself and he believed
20:12in other people around him that believed
20:13in him.
20:16What do you fear now?
20:18Um
20:20I don't fear death
20:23because of the accident. You you felt
20:25because of the accident.
20:27I feel like I'm here to do a job and
20:31when my job is finished, I go home.
20:35And going home means what?
20:36I go to I go to heaven.
20:39And um
20:41what do I fear? Just fear is like being
20:45whacked. Fear of not having an idea
20:47because at that point I'll be dead. My
20:50ideas are my are my air. I breathe
20:54creativity. Does does the success that
20:57you've had with this album
21:00suggest that there was a hunger among
21:04the rap audience for something different
21:06for somebody who comes along and and and
21:09puts within the
21:12using all of the techniques that rap
21:14Yeah.
21:15famous for had a different message and
21:17there was a void there and you just
21:19drove right through it.
21:21Yeah, it was a void. All I you know I'm
21:23like I was like the the boxing coach
21:25sitting there watching all these other
21:27boxers in the ring. I'm like just go to
21:30the gut. Just go to the gut. And nobody
21:32goes to the gut. People are winning
21:33winning and everything. You know like
21:35some people get knocked out. Some people
21:36are winning. But you know I'm like the
21:38person they never say could be a boxer
21:40all week and everything in comparison.
21:42But I just get in that ring and hit
21:44people dead in the gut. Meaning you know
21:47speak for my soul. And
21:51I'm knocking all these people out.
21:52They're like, "How did that happen?" I'm
21:53like, "I've been telling y'all for all."
21:55Yo, just speak from your soul. That's
21:56all you got to do. People relate to
21:58that. And but you know what? Once I
22:01really found out I I decided I was going
22:03to be a rapper, I just shut up and I
22:05stopped telling people. And I'd be in
22:06the studio with people and I would help
22:07them with their tracks, but I stopped
22:09helping people with their raps
22:11cuz I help I used to help.
22:12So you stopped helping with the rap and
22:14just stayed with the track.
22:15Yeah. Just stop just stayed with the
22:16tracks
22:16doing the beat and that's it.
22:17Yeah. because I used to sit there and um
22:22come up with lines to help people out.
22:24And once it was time for me to be a
22:26rapper, I said, "I'm gonna stop giving
22:27away the secret." Because the thing is,
22:29I had a I I It wasn't just that I'm
22:32good. I'm not I'm not that good of a
22:35rapper. I mean, I'm getting pretty nice,
22:37you know? I'm getting pretty nice.
22:38But you're not that good.
22:39Yeah. I'm no Jay-Z. I'm no Nas, but I
22:42got a niche. I got my thing.
22:44And what do you think you can do with
22:45your thing? I could talk I could talk to
22:49the people's soul and I'm kind of like
22:51that me and Dave Chappelle blew at the
22:53same time. We're the exact same person
22:55on this.
22:55Is that right? You are you and David
22:56Chappelle?
22:57Yes. Because we talk about real issues.
23:00We talk about racism and we put a a
23:02twist of humor on it so people are they
23:05want to accept it. Like I say, I speak
23:07to a girl soul like Ben and Jerry's and
23:10it's like they they want to just hear
23:12what else you got to say. When you when
23:14you make them smile, then you can style.
23:16you go, "Wow, I wrote that just now."
23:19[laughter]
23:20Where will you take this? I mean, are
23:22you going to be different in terms of of
23:24what you do? Uh, we mentioned early on
23:27the foundation,
23:28which is to give back to kids. Yes.
23:30Yes.
23:31You know, I mean, where do you where do
23:32you see your life going in the next
23:34three or four years?
23:36My goal back when I used to work really
23:40hard when I was 17 and I couldn't buy a
23:42beat and I was just struggling. You
23:44know, I would go in the Gucci store and
23:46just browse and and maybe two months
23:48later be able to buy one pair of shoes.
23:50It was my goal at that time was to be
23:52able to do nothing. And I used to say
23:54that the more the more successful I get,
23:57I see I have to do everything. I have to
24:01be um take a position like a Russell
24:05Simmons and do everything that I can to
24:07help everyone around me. It'll be like
24:12I'll be 60, 70, 80 years old still doing
24:15conferences, still doing what I can to
24:17help young kids, whether it's in music,
24:19whether it's film, whether it's just
24:21motivation, uh kids that don't have
24:24fathers. Like I feel like I'm a father
24:26to a lot of people. My music speaks to
24:28them. It's a male role model to a lot of
24:30kids that don't have a father. Now that
24:33I see that I'm successful, it's my
24:35responsibility to help as many people as
24:37I can.
24:38What do you think Russell has
24:39contributed to?
24:41Not only the music, but to the society.
24:44Um,
24:45because he's venturing more and more
24:46into politics.
24:48Yeah. I I would say
24:49prison reform.
24:51I can say particularly with music, he
24:53broke down a lot of barriers for
24:54rappers. Like me and Will Smith had a
24:56conversation. He he talked about how um
25:00they wouldn't let rappers stay at
25:01certain hotels. So when they did the
25:03tour with Run DMC and Fresh Prince,
25:06Russell would uh specifically book them
25:08in that hotel. It was like I'm talking
25:10about this. It was like straight like
25:12segregation.
25:13It was like when my when my grandfather
25:15drove the first car um in the march,
25:17he couldn't get a place to stay.
25:19Yeah. It was the same thing. So he
25:21helped fight a lot of broke down a lot
25:24of racial um walls like
25:27and also was enormously economically
25:29successful.
25:30Yeah, he showed
25:30in creating businesses that were
25:33that he would grow and then sell and
25:35Yeah, he was he was a um he was a
25:39business mastermind.
25:40How about Jay-Z?
25:41Oh, you know Jay? [laughter]
25:44Come on now.
25:45Come on now.
25:45That's like that's like when anytime I'm
25:47around him, I just like try to ask as
25:48many questions as possible. Now, what
25:50would you ask him?
25:51I would ask him, man, how'd you get all
25:53that money?
25:56Beyonce. [laughter]
25:58Yeah. How'd you get beyond that?
26:01No, but I would ask him and you know,
26:04how did you keep it?
26:05How did you run this company? How did
26:07you do all this? But that I when I when
26:09he had the um what was the best of both
26:11worlds tour that became the Jay-Z and
26:13Friends tour, I remember sitting at the
26:14side of stage and looking at him say his
26:16raps and speak to this uh crowd of
26:1920,000 people and thinking this man is
26:22really a genius. This man really has a
26:24grasp and these are these are my role
26:26role models. I'm like I'm just a genius
26:28in training.
26:30Yeah. But I what I hear from you is a
26:32guy who really does pay attention. Yeah.
26:34you know, and there's a laser-like focus
26:36on what everybody else is doing, you
26:38know, and your appetite to learn and see
26:40how you can translate it to your own
26:42experience.
26:42Yeah.
26:43Is central to who you are.
26:44Right.
26:45Right.
26:45That's true. I always I always tell
26:46people I dropped out of school in order
26:48to learn.
26:51But at the same time, you want to
26:52encourage people who are motivated and
26:53who believe that college can make a
26:55difference in their life.
26:56Yeah. Definitely go.
26:57If you you know, if you want to be a
26:59doctor, go to college.
27:00Yeah.
27:00Do something. Use school. Don't let it
27:03use you. It's big. It's big business.
27:06You know, that's why a lot of times
27:07people go to school, they major in
27:09something, they end up be uh becoming a
27:11professor at a different school for the
27:14same thing they majored in.
27:15Yeah. Jamie Fox interviewed you for
27:17something. What was it? Didn't he?
27:18Uh Interview magazine.
27:19For Interview magazine.
27:20Yeah. I had some really good pictures in
27:22there, too. I think that was some of my
27:23best photography.
27:24Oh, your photographs.
27:25No, they photo me. Oh, they Yeah, I
27:28looked really nice in there.
27:29Yeah.
27:30Yeah. Is there any limit to your
27:32ambition?
27:33No.
27:34Or any limit to what you think you can
27:36achieve?
27:38No.
27:40Well, no. Cuz I think right now if I was
27:44to
27:46quit rapping and I say I want to go to
27:47the NBA, I would be in the NBA.
27:50No, you wouldn't.
27:50Yes.
27:51No, you would.
27:51Yes, I would.
27:52No, you wouldn't.
27:52Yes, I would.
27:53Why would you think you could make it to
27:54the NBA?
27:55Cuz I think I could do anything.
27:56[laughter]
27:59Have you ever played basketball?
28:00Yes, I did. Pretty good. You pretty
28:02good.
28:02And the thing I I wasn't natural at all,
28:04but I ended up being on a team and and
28:06winning championships and um being a
28:09point guard,
28:10you know, and it just came from
28:12like like my my talent is the ability to
28:15learn. If I could play you the tracks
28:17that I had when I was, you know, in
28:20seventh grade and compare that to a
28:22Jesus Walks, All Falls Down, Stand Up,
28:26Overnight Celebrity. Hold on. I'm not
28:28finished. I'm going to name everything
28:28I've nominated for. Um, [laughter]
28:32Slow Jams. But if I could play you that
28:34right now and show you that track and
28:36I'll go and shoot a jump shot right now
28:38and miss it.
28:38Yeah.
28:39It's the same thing as how my tracks
28:40were right back. You know,
28:44anything in life that you put your mind
28:46to, you can do. The world, the world is
28:49your oyster. That's all I tell people.
28:51And I really have a grasp of that being
28:53that I nearly died. It's it's it's this
28:56and it's heaven. While you're on earth,
29:00especially if you're not incarcerated,
29:02if you if you
29:04you got to take advantage of this and
29:06and that that doesn't mean for everybody
29:08to be a rapper, for everybody to be a
29:09producer. do what you do to the fullest
29:12and live your life and just and just be
29:14happy.
29:16It's great to have you here.
29:17Yeah.
29:17Pleasure to have you on the show.
29:18Yeah. Thank you.
29:19Great luck. Good luck at the Grammys on
29:22February 13th.
29:23Okay.
29:24Uh this is called The College Dropout. I
29:26read all those nominations that he has.
29:29Uh Jesus Walk song of the year.
29:31Uh album of the year, The College
29:33Dropout. And then album of the year for
29:34which he was a producer of The Diary of
29:37Alicia Keys. It's great to have you
29:40here. Really? Thank you.
29:42Great to see
29:43back in a moment.

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