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Kai Uwe Faust (Heilung) — Core Shamanism, Creativity, Heilung — Interview on March 6, 2025 — Transcript

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0:05We are trying to grasp the core of the
0:11primal spirituality of mankind and
0:13reimplant that back in
0:17us. The fundamental thing can be nailed
0:21down with one word animism.
0:24So people who work with
0:26shamanism realize at a very early point
0:29that
0:31there's everything is
0:33alive and everything is connected. So
0:36there is no being no action that is
0:40isolated.
0:44The first shaman is also the first
0:47musician and the other way around
0:49because what is happening very quick is
0:51when you start beating a piece of wood
0:53or even a drum, rhythmic drumming really
0:57can put you into some kind of trance.
1:01Hello. Today we are here with Kaio from
1:04Hilong. Hello. Uh so Kai I I wanted to
1:08devote this interview to things that are
1:12usually omitted from the general high
1:15interviews basically shamanic and
1:19spiritual roots. Uh could I ask you
1:22first uh how did you started to find
1:25this path and uh can you tell about core
1:29shamanism especially? Okay. Yeah. Let's
1:33start with uh core
1:36shamanism the definition. So core
1:39shamanism was developed by Dr. Michael
1:42Hner and he did that already quite
1:46early. Uh he started like seriously
1:50working on that in the
1:5170s and core shamanism is basically
1:55about to avoid something which is these
1:57days very important and that is cultural
2:00appropriation.
2:02So what a lot of people do these days is
2:05they go somewhere, they go to the jungle
2:07or they go to the prairies in in America
2:10and then they learn something and then
2:12they pick up stuff and try to imitate
2:16and make a living from it. But we as
2:19Europeans, we are not crow, we are not
2:24sheep people. We are just Europeans. We
2:27carry European genes. We carry old
2:31European spiritual traumas in us. So
2:34that also counts of course for uh our
2:37American brothers and
2:39sisters. And
2:41uh Michael, he had the task to
2:46basically go around the
2:49planet, see what is the core of
2:55shamanism apart from the spiritual uh
2:59the uh the local cultural
3:02shell in order to extract that core and
3:06give that back to us Europeans because
3:10We as Europeans in the early medieval
3:13time, we got that taken away violently
3:17by Christianity. And that is that is
3:20what I'm doing. I'm I'm working with uh
3:23with core shamanism together with a lot
3:24of a lot of people on the globe. We are
3:28trying to grasp the core
3:32of the primal spirituality of mankind
3:36and reimplant that back in us. And of
3:39course that naturally comes with things
3:42that we at some point also look in our
3:46pre-Christian cultures, look in their
3:48medicines, look in their cultures, look
3:51in their habits and uh of course that
3:54very quickly also pops open and uh as a
3:58European, as a Scandinavian, we will
4:00naturally develop an interest for
4:04Vikings, Slavs and all the people that
4:07that were before us. and we still carry
4:09that information in us. So that's
4:12roughly what it is about to say I
4:16personally got
4:19like many people that work with
4:21shamanism to that path through
4:24suffering and
4:27um they say especially Sandra Ingamman's
4:31uh points that out very often. The
4:34shaman although I would never give that
4:36title to myself but we get to that
4:38later. The shaman is the wounded healer
4:41and still in my age now I am discovering
4:44wounds in myself and I am more or less
4:49forced to find healing for that and then
4:52of course also share that healing path.
4:55As a teenager I was very sick. I had a
4:57terrible skin disease and it was not it
5:01was not possible to heal that with the
5:03regular medicine that you find with your
5:07doctor and your creams and your pills
5:09and all that kind of stuff. So for many
5:12years I was really I was down with it
5:15and I was yeah not happy and I was in a
5:19lot of pain and a lot of rash and uh at
5:22some point I ended up in a core
5:24shamanism circle and I got a absolutely
5:27medically ridiculous recipe and within
5:3121 days that year long of suffering just
5:35end years long of suffering just ended
5:38that left me very curious is to find out
5:42what the whole stuff was about with the
5:44drumming and the incense and all that
5:46kind of stuff. And uh shortly after I
5:51joined uh the foundation for shamanic
5:54studies which was founded by formerly
5:56mentioned Michael Hner and I started
5:59there studying shamanism work with
6:01shamanism assisting workshops and uh
6:05still studying still helping still
6:07assisting still discovering new wounds
6:10still healing. So you probably
6:12participate in shamanic practices. Uh,
6:15of course it's probably very hard to
6:17describe uh to outsider but can you give
6:20like some hint like how does it feel to
6:23be inside that that clearly depends on
6:26the ritual right I mean there's the
6:28focus is of course always to to bring
6:32healing like Iliad for example he
6:34defines the shaman that uh what is a
6:38shaman a shaman goes into trance
6:42contacts his or her helping spirits in
6:44order to bring healing for the client or
6:48for the tribe. And uh that is what you
6:52also learn in in core shamanism of
6:56course like the the first thing
6:58is we as westerners we will never be
7:04shamans. Full
7:06stop. We will never be shamans ever
7:09because we don't have that unbroken
7:11line. We don't have tribes anymore that
7:15hand you the title. So core shamanism
7:18starts out with a lot of humbleness. We
7:21work with shamanism per definition. Yes.
7:25But we never claim the title shaman.
7:29What people think, whatever title people
7:32give us, it doesn't really matter. Also
7:35in the western European
7:38uh ancient pre-C Christian cultures,
7:42Scandinavian pre-Christian cultures, the
7:44word shaman was not known. We had
7:46completely different words for the
7:48people that that work with that with
7:49with the techniques we're using today.
7:52And also the techniques itself are never
7:54100% graspable. But in core shamanism,
7:58the first thing you learn is to go into
8:01a mild trance,
8:05drug-free, travel to the other world or
8:08the other
8:09worlds. Contact your helping spirits and
8:13find medicine for your client.
8:16Preferably that client is not yourself
8:20or someone close to you, family or
8:22friends. the better you heal a client
8:25when you basically when you're not
8:28attached to that person and
8:31also completely in opposite to the
8:34regular school medicine as a shamanic
8:37working person you do not need to know
8:40much about your client
8:42because you yourself as the healing
8:45element there is no power within you
8:48there's absolutely no power within you
8:51are only the mediator in between the
8:53client and the spirit world. All the
8:56power, all the all the healing power
8:59lays with the spirits and in the client.
9:03That is never the shamanic working
9:05person that is healing. It's always the
9:08spirits triggering the self-healing
9:10process in the client. In the beginning,
9:12when you
9:14join, I just use the word now in in in
9:17lack of a better concept. When you join
9:19a shamanic circle in the beginning it
9:21will feel very weird because what people
9:23do is very weird you know like all the
9:27drumming the smells are very weird.
9:29There's weird songs being being sung and
9:33also what people do very often at first
9:36glance doesn't make any
9:38sense. Coramanism itself also does not
9:42require a certain regalia or stuff like
9:45that. So when you go to tribes that are
9:46still intact, you can see at first
9:49glance who is the healer in the tribe,
9:52who is the warrior in the tribe, all
9:54that kind of stuff. Since we Western
9:56Europeans, we
9:58Scandinavians, we don't have that
10:00anymore. You do not necessarily realize
10:03the moment you join a shamanic working
10:04circle who is the head in this, who is
10:08the arranger of that. People usually
10:11look very normal. What part usually
10:14music plays in that sham shamanism and
10:17what role is there for
10:20sound? I always
10:23say back in the ancient ancients don't
10:26it in the beginning of mankind shamanism
10:29itself is approximately for 40,000 years
10:32with us.
10:35The first shaman is also the first
10:37musician and the other way around
10:40because what is happening very quick is
10:42when you start beating a piece of wood
10:44or even a drum people realize that these
10:47sounds change
10:49emotion emotions that these sounds do
10:52something very weird. So there's certain
10:54frequencies, certain
10:56BPM that where you can see that it
11:00changes the brain frequency like that
11:03rhythmic
11:04drumming really can put you into some
11:07kind of trans. So sound is very
11:09important. Also a lot of like globally a
11:13lot of coats or dresses that people wear
11:16that work with shamanism. The the very
11:19dress itself makes a sound when they
11:21move. Be it bones or bells or metal
11:24pieces clanging that move with uh with
11:28the person. So sound is a is a central
11:31role in all of this and also what people
11:34say or what people sing mantras
11:38affirmations actual songs just sounds
11:41it's all about frequency is all
11:45about
11:46frequency basically and of course in
11:49Hilum you will find a lot of ancient
11:52European ancient Scandinavian stuff that
11:54is also very personal and very dear to
11:56me Because of course my entrance into
12:00the spiritual world into the spiritual
12:03healing world came with this very very
12:06sober core shamanism but I grew up on
12:11lands that are that were inhabited by
12:14Kelts by Germanic people raided by
12:18Vikings later and all that kind of stuff
12:20and every every culture left its trace.
12:22So as a child I I played in Celtic stone
12:25circles. There's like stone age graves
12:27right beside Celtic graves. And uh I had
12:31a a very strong attachment to that
12:33already since I was a child. And of
12:37course that land, the caves, the grave
12:42mounds, everything at some point starts
12:44speaking to you. And uh of course
12:47growing up without TV, I grew up in a
12:49very very strict Christian family.
12:52made me read a lot since I was a child
12:55as well and uh yeah I have quite a quite
12:58an extensive library which is also the
13:01source of a lot of Hilong lyrics and
13:05uh that's how it all came basically
13:08simply said maybe just to elaborate um
13:11like probably somebody who would be
13:14watching this interview they would care
13:17about finding some sources on kamanism
13:20or like similar subjects that are
13:22related to Hilong that you used. Could
13:24you name a few titles?
13:27Yes, of course. Like uh the central book
13:31that I clearly suggest to read for
13:34everyone that is interested in shamanism
13:36and especially core core shamanism is
13:38the way of the shaman by Michael
13:41Hner. And uh for people who live on
13:45lands that were uh inhabited by what by
13:50people that we call wikings, there is a
13:53beautiful book. It's called
13:55uh the wiking
13:57way. And that is if you have these two
14:00books, you basically are able to slowly
14:03dive into the core of hidle.
14:09I've been wondering uh like probably
14:12shaman sees the world differently. Uh so
14:16how
14:18uh shaman or a person familiar with
14:20those practices
14:22uh feels in our common surroundings
14:26uh like um what is different uh what is
14:31open to them compared to a regular
14:34person that just lives a city life for
14:37instance. Yes.
14:39Um the fundamental
14:42thing can be nailed down with one word,
14:47animism. So people who work with
14:49shamanism realize at a very early point
14:53that
14:54there's everything is
14:56alive. Literally everything. This table
14:59is alive. The stones are alive. The
15:02stones have a soul. The trees have a
15:05soul. Animals have a soul. And
15:07everything is connected. So there is no
15:10being, no action that is
15:14isolated. Everything you do, everything
15:16that is is connected in some weird kind
15:21of net.
15:23And when you work with shamanism, you
15:27can also extract
15:29information from trees,
15:32animals, stones, even that very table
15:36here. It's a very weird thing because if
15:41you do not if you're not at home in that
15:43world, that doesn't really open up to
15:46most of the people. But as I said, if
15:49you if you join a core shamanism
15:50workshop at some point, that will
15:52automatically open up to you. And uh
15:55that is also something we find globally
15:58that uh cultures that are rooted in
16:00shamanism that they have this general
16:04worldview of course there is cultural
16:06coloration in
16:08it. The next thing is the three layered
16:12cosmos. So right now we are in the
16:17common
16:18reality. That common reality is
16:22interwoven from the so-called middle
16:26world. We are in it right now. But
16:29there's also spirits. The souls of the
16:32trees, the souls of dead people, you
16:34know, the souls of the grass and the
16:36meadows, the souls of the mountain.
16:38That's all in the middle world.
16:41Then we have the so-called underworld
16:44which can have from culture to culture
16:46different sections can have many many
16:49underworlds. So from the northern
16:52mythology we know that under us there's
16:55several worlds or our ancestors named it
16:58se gave it several names with different
17:01beings living
17:03there. On top of of the middle world we
17:08have the upper world also. This upper
17:09world can have from culture to culture,
17:11different sections, different realms and
17:14can be quite quite extensive. So, uh
17:17there's like a the cultures that work
17:20with drums. A lot of these uh uh
17:24shamanic working people, they have maps
17:27on their drums that help them to travel
17:30upside uh up and down through these
17:33different worlds that help them to find
17:35their way to through the many many upper
17:39worlds and and all these layers that we
17:44have. Basically this the shaman's
17:46ability is to go into trance, leave this
17:50middle layer and travel up and down on
17:54the tree of life or axis mundi or
17:57however you want to call it and retrieve
18:00information or retrieve or uh pick up
18:04spirits or even bring spirits to the
18:07different realms and do healing with it.
18:10But you can also do damage with it, of
18:12course.
18:14And in one of your interviews you
18:16mentioned rune magic and cedar. Can you
18:19tell like I I don't know anything about
18:21it but I understand that you do a little
18:24bit. So can you just I'm complete noob.
18:28Can you tell me a little bit about that?
18:30Well you know we have this very
18:32beautiful book
18:33the in the it says if someone asks you
18:37about roots you should fall silent.
18:44Good. Yeah. Yeah. Let's follow the
18:46rules. No
18:48worries. No, of course.
18:53Uh there we hit what can be commonly
18:57called the oultism from the Latin word
19:00okultara to hide. And uh there's a lot
19:03of knowledge that can and should not be
19:06shared. You can feel it. you can access
19:09it as an individual but the doors to
19:12that knowledge of course they they
19:14exist. So uh when it comes to cyther to
19:19be honest uh I see these days a lot of
19:22people who are offering cyther workshops
19:25that go like for 3 days that go for a
19:27week or whatever you know and they they
19:30make a big thing out of
19:31it but in my world in my personal world
19:35it's like that that I did not manage so
19:38far by the sources to actually nail down
19:43what is this saitra actually because the
19:45sources are very very very very scarce.
19:48There is not
19:49much there's not much that we can grasp.
19:52Right? That also has something to do
19:55what I believe we already hitting the
19:57belief
19:58zone that people back then kept it
20:02secret especially when Christianity came
20:04in and they were harshly opposed by the
20:09priests and the the Christian culture.
20:11Then they kept it even more secret.
20:13Right?
20:14So what we need to do with the help of
20:18courseism or other techniques is to
20:23gather intuitive knowledge. Of course if
20:26there ever is a call for certain people
20:28to teach that intuitive not knowledge to
20:31other people that's completely fine you
20:33know also to earn money with that and
20:35whatever you know like there will there
20:37will be no judgment from my side. But if
20:40you ask
20:41me, sther for me personally is hard to
20:45grasp. I would never dare to uh to teach
20:49it. Right? The same with the runes. We
20:53find a lot of runes. And the bitter
20:56thing for our pagan, strictly pagan
20:59brothers and sisters is the majority of
21:01rune incriptions are Christian
21:03inscriptions. A lot of people don't want
21:04to hear that, but that's just what it
21:07unfortunately is because like when it
21:09comes to runes, we find a lot of runes
21:12from the early medieval time, especially
21:14in Sweden in uh epitaps and like its
21:19runstones. They look very pagan and of
21:22course they have a clearly pagan uh icon
21:26iconography with dragons and all that
21:28kind of stuff. And some of the figures
21:29we can link to uh pre-Christian stories.
21:32But the inscription is very often a
21:35blessing, a well-wishing
21:37uh for a dead person saying who set up
21:40the runstone. And also the the saying
21:45god may save his soul and it is not the
21:48gods, it is God may save his soul is
21:53very very very
21:54common at that time.
21:58Christianity already is an established
22:01part of the culture. When these stones
22:04are being made, Christianity is there.
22:07It it rules the life of the people and
22:10of course people change habit habits
22:13hard. So there is a certain synretatism
22:17going on. There's still underlaying
22:19pagan notes. But the moment we go into
22:22the actual pagan times, the runic
22:24inscriptions, they get harder and harder
22:27to decipher the further we go back in
22:29time and they become less and less. So
22:33in the in the in the beginning like the
22:36first rune inscriptions, they are of
22:38course on uh easily to find on metal uh
22:42uh objects. There's a lot of coding
22:45going on. There's a lot of short words
22:48going on. There's a whole you can study
22:50that for a decade renology in the
22:54university and uh it will still leave
22:57you uh with a lot of things that can
23:01where you cannot say for sure that is
23:05what it means right there's this
23:07beautiful book from uh Lisbet Ima she
23:12was for a long time the only official
23:15runologist in the university uh in the
23:18museum of Copenhagen. And in her book,
23:21there's a lot of uh metal objects from
23:24the m migration period with runes on.
23:27And she is honest and straightforward
23:29enough to really say we have no idea
23:32what it means. And we are talking about
23:34many many objects. We're not talking
23:36about one. We're not talking about 10.
23:38We're talking about a lot lot more. And
23:41uh to bring the link back to Hilong, the
23:44song
23:45Anuana was mainly composed from these
23:49inscriptions where we have not
23:51absolutely no idea what it means. Of
23:55course, nowadays if we take that lyrics
23:58from the Anana song where I know that
24:01the majority of it was not deciphered
24:04and we push it through an AI, that AI
24:06will give you a beautiful translation.
24:09When I tell you it's
24:14Yeah. Yeah. Somehow when I talk to folk
24:16musicians, we always talk AI or kind of
24:19clash between what is nature, what is
24:21like real world and what technology
24:24brings
24:25in. Uh another question about uh like
24:30people who have the knowledge with that
24:33shamanic worldview, can they like
24:35benefit from it in real world? Because
24:38like we would say, okay, this guy could
24:42possibly access some information that
24:44make him rich or something. So, how does
24:47it work or doesn't work?
24:51Well, like um if you go in trends and
24:56you try to find out a lot of numbers for
24:58next week, that will most probably go
25:01wrong. I mentioned before the humbleness
25:05like as a shamanic working person, you
25:08are supposed to be in service for for
25:10other people, right? And um like a lot
25:15of this profane stuff, how do I get rich
25:17and all that kind of stuff. It just it
25:19just simply and plainly doesn't work. It
25:22would be too easy. And if it if it would
25:24work like that, everyone would do it and
25:27we would all be rich and all the
25:28problems of the world would be solved,
25:30right?
25:32What can happen and what happened to me
25:35and I have seen it happening to to a lot
25:37of other people is that a longlasting
25:40problem you had which is rooted in your
25:44soul which radiates out in in in your
25:47physical body that kind of stuff you can
25:50clearly get healed. But it's also like
25:54that that when you go around the globe
25:58and you ask people that work with
26:01shamanism about their healing quote
26:03there you you end up researched by the
26:07foundation for shamanic studies you end
26:08up with a healing quote around
26:1140%. That
26:13means that is more or less medically
26:17irrelevant. But it also means that four
26:20out of 10 people they are lucky. They
26:23get healthy. They progress in their
26:26life. They find a different job. They
26:29can feel safe in relationships. They
26:34manage to heal a physical disease where
26:36the regular medicine says this is not
26:40healable. You have to live with it. That
26:42is what I for example heard. You have to
26:44live with it. That's just how it is, you
26:46know.
26:48And um that also should be the approach.
26:52The shamanic working person should
26:54approach the client very humble. Never
26:58give a guarantee of healing. Approach
27:00the spirit world very humble with the
27:04will to serve with the will to even
27:08sacrifice a part of himself in order to
27:11make that other person well again or
27:13better or healthy.
27:18what I respected you for in one of the
27:21interviews among other things that you
27:24openly talk about dangerous things that
27:27uh attach it to rune magic and so on and
27:31uh maybe like since we're talking about
27:33shamanism here and some people of course
27:36like they can watch it and uh say okay I
27:41would like to go to shamanic working
27:43person and do something how to avoid uh
27:48some dangers like how to choose the
27:51right person, how to not to trust some
27:54scammers or people who don't uh follow
27:58it properly or you know this kind of
28:01dilitance that could do like some
28:03damage.
28:05What are the precautions?
28:08There's of course a lot of people out
28:10there that work in different ways and
28:13have a different
28:15approach. It's hard to say, right? I
28:18mean, uh there's beautiful books.
28:20Another beautiful book is the rune
28:23primer from Swain
28:25Plite. And uh what he does he goes
28:29through the most common
28:33uh authors that write about runes and uh
28:36he uh gives a short biography if that
28:39person actually has ever seen university
28:41from the inside or uh is uh just like
28:44making stuff up and and stuff like that.
28:46That was for me personally a very
28:47valuable uh valuable book. And
28:51um in the end it comes down to
28:56intuition like all people are blessed
28:59with intuition if we have of course we
29:02have more or less uh access to it. But
29:05your gut feeling the gut feeling is
29:08something where there is no much weight
29:11on this in our regular culture these
29:13days anymore.
29:15But your gut feeling is a perfect
29:17compass. Like if you have a weird
29:19feeling with someone, just
29:22don't. That's very simple. And if you if
29:25you really click with someone, good. You
29:29know, why not? There's a reason I was
29:32talking about that net that everything
29:34connects
29:36uh in this world or these worlds. So a
29:42mouse and a cat they can never be friend
29:43and they they can never be friends and
29:46they naturally are not attracted to each
29:48other and that is the same with people
29:50like people that will help us
29:54progressing people that will will help
29:56us healing people that are good for us.
29:59We have we have a a sixth, seventh, 8th
30:02whatever sense in uh in us that tells us
30:05yes that is a good thing you know or
30:09there is some warning being triggered
30:11and intuition is also something the
30:14moment you work with with
30:16shamanism the intuitive healing
30:19practices they they bring people ve very
30:23often forward and out of big uh big
30:25troubles where the pure logic stuff
30:29never succeeds.
30:31Obvious question, how your shamanic
30:35experiences and knowledge transfer into
30:39hyong? Of course, that is an very
30:42complex question, right? I mean, like
30:43we're talking about a two-hour
30:45performance
30:46here, but uh there's certain things that
30:50never really change. So in the beginning
30:53you will see always one of us coming
30:58out cleaning the space with smoke. We
31:02use very often local local incense and
31:06uh we're blessing the
31:08stage.
31:09Sometimes there's also people from the
31:13local first nation doing that for us
31:17also. sometimes with local songs or a
31:21short
31:23speech. After the smudging there will be
31:27the whole performing crew will round
31:31up. We will bring antlers because that
31:35is uh our main main topic is of course
31:37rooted in uh in antlers and deers and
31:41all that kind of stuff by visuals.
31:47We will hold hands and we will recite
31:51uh a
31:53short saying, a short poem, a short
31:57phrase that makes us remember that we're
31:59all
32:00connected through space and time. When
32:04that is done, there will be a first
32:07piece being played, being
32:11performed that is supposed
32:14to induce trans inside of us but also in
32:19the
32:20audience. After that there is changeable
32:24elements for a while and that is
32:27also very often in a lot of ritual
32:31ceremonies globally. You have a starting
32:34part, a middle part and an end part. We
32:38also have that in Hyong. We also have an
32:40end part which is basically the mirror
32:44of what we did in the beginning. So
32:46there will be some smudging again. There
32:48will be holding hands again and there
32:51will be certain actions being performed
32:54that never change. After that is done.
32:58It's done. There will be no extra song
33:00being played ever.
33:02There will be nothing happening anymore.
33:04We will round up. We will hold hands. We
33:08will be cleansed. We come down and then
33:12we leave. We leave the stage and the
33:14ceremony is over. That's just
33:17it. That is basically
33:20the overlaying frame, the spiritual
33:24frame of Hail.
33:27There is the element of joy is
33:32very very dominant in the beginning uh
33:35in the in the end. That is the time
33:37where
33:39we pushed out a lot of energy during the
33:41performance but we also collected a lot
33:44of energy and that is where it all
33:46bursts out usually also in the audience
33:50and that is also what
33:51it what basically the core of many many
33:55ceremonies or rituals on this globe is
33:59that people do better that people feel
34:01energized that people feel connected and
34:05again that is something which is not
34:07just happening in the performance crew
34:09that is also happening in the audience
34:11as it should be. How does it feel that
34:14um things that are powered by that
34:17shamanic knowledge they got amplified to
34:19bigger
34:21audience like is there a good thing or
34:24bad think or neutral thing?
34:28Um I try to not judge things too
34:34much but
34:36uh I
34:38think that the success of Hilong is of
34:42course something which is rooted in hard
34:44work from everyone in the performance
34:48crew of course starting with Christopher
34:50and Maria and me when we did the first
34:53album there's many many hours and days
34:55and months being being put into
34:59that. But that
35:01seed, if we look at the first album as a
35:04seed or the first pieces, that that seed
35:08actually fell on that fertile ground and
35:10grew so much. I think that has to do
35:12with with with the zeitgeist as we say
35:16in German. Because right now we are in a
35:20time where the church that was
35:23suppressing our natural spirituality
35:25that we had for many many thousand years
35:28is losing power, is losing influence.
35:32And people are searching for something
35:37that gives them answers, for something
35:39that gives them joy, for something that
35:41gives them healing. And uh before it was
35:46the church providing most of that.
35:48Nowadays that is not the case anymore.
35:50And at the same
35:51time, we are social beings. We are meant
35:56to connect. We are meant to talk to each
35:59other. We are meant to work together.
36:01You know, we're meant to dance together.
36:03We're meant to laugh together. We're and
36:06uh we are living in a time where a lot
36:09of people are sitting in small concrete
36:12cubes look into a square with a lot of
36:16lights and they do that for a long long
36:18time. But that is not natural behavior.
36:21That is not what we're built for. We're
36:23we're we're built to walk. We're built
36:25to run. We're built to move. Built to
36:28dance. And uh the moment there is a
36:31space being opened where all that is
36:34possible where a space without judgment
36:37you know like you can come to a high
36:38concert however you want. If you want to
36:40come naked just come naked right if you
36:42want to come in a wiking dress come in a
36:43wiking dress. If you want to come in
36:44your wedding suit come in your wedding
36:46suit it's fine. You can totally be
36:49yourself. You can move as you wish. You
36:51know it's not like in a church where you
36:53have to be silent. You can talk. You can
36:55laugh. You can sing. All of it. You know
36:57just just be there. be your be yourself,
37:00connect with yourself, connect with
37:01others. And I think that
37:04is we say in German
37:08uh I I cannot translate that that to
37:11English, but that basically that you
37:14give the possibility to a being to do
37:16that what it is built for, right? And
37:19that is what we clearly do when we
37:22travel the world
37:23and we go to these holes. Of course,
37:26there is limits. There's always a
37:28security and like if you like to fire
37:30guns, please do not do that in a high
37:32concert. Right. Also, people like the
37:36the health and safety regulations, they
37:38might have something to say when you
37:40come with your big antler or your sword,
37:42all that kind of stuff, right? But, uh,
37:45basically just be free, live, breathe,
37:49love, sing, laugh.
37:52So I think
37:54[Music]
37:55it's like probably meaningful to
37:58distinguish between uh church as a
38:00organization especially in the middle
38:02ages that was trying to eradicate any
38:05other um beliefs and be
38:09monopolistic and the religious message
38:13the faith. So can you comment how we all
38:17be brothers
38:21basically? How can we all be
38:26brothers? Point is we are that is just
38:30what it is. We all bleed red. We all
38:33brown. No matter what you believe
38:37that's just what it is. We share such a
38:39big amount of genetics that your skin
38:41color is literally
38:44irrelevant. So we
38:48are we are the same. We're meant to
38:52connect. We're meant to
38:55exchange. But I also
38:57say in a tolerant society there is no
39:00space for intolerant
39:03people. So your brother might always be
39:06your brother. Although he or she can be
39:09sometimes an idiot and that is the point
39:13where we clearly need to protect
39:17ourselves where we need to heal and
39:20where we also need to send out a clear
39:23message. So traditional Christianity for
39:27example says that it is absolutely
39:31fine to beat your children. And let me
39:34tell you something, it is absolutely
39:37wrong. It is absolutely wrong. Do not
39:40ever beat your children. It is not
39:43necessary. If you do that, it is said
39:46several times in the Bible that you
39:49should beat your
39:50children, that it is okay, that it is an
39:53expression of love to hit them with a
39:55stick. It is not. It is fundamentally
39:58wrong. It destroys the
40:01soul in the core and it gives these
40:04people who who undergo that treatment a
40:08lifelong task to heal. It gives them
40:12problems. It gives them
40:15diseases. This is supposed to this is
40:18not supposed to happen. Even the pope
40:20recently said it is okay to hit your
40:23children. Just don't do it in the face.
40:25It is
40:26not. It is absolutely
40:29not. There is many natural tribes like
40:33in their natural spirituality that never
40:37do that. that even do not not let their
40:40kids touch the ground for the first time
40:43that they're fresh on this planet. They
40:45always give them shelter, love, keep
40:49them safe. And that is what a child
40:52needs. Child needs to feel safe because
40:55when you're very very small, there's
40:57only two things, you know. You either
41:00feel threatened in your very core, in
41:02your life because you're hungry, because
41:03you're cold or whatever, or you feel
41:05safe. And as a parent, you have to give
41:10these small souls that feeling of
41:13safety. If you fail to do that, you
41:16create a
41:20monster. There is the
41:23church that says follow the book by the
41:27word. That's also wrong. That is a book
41:30that that was written in the antique
41:32times for cultures in an antique time
41:36with antique challenges. We cannot do
41:39that these days. In the Bible, it is
41:41also clearly written if a farmer does
41:43not plant certain plants in a certain
41:46rhythm of the years, you have to kill
41:48that farmer. Imagine we would do that
41:50these days. That is just completely out
41:54of the discussion. And the same thing
41:56counts for the heedens, for the pagans.
41:58If we look if we look at Viking burial
42:01ceremonies for example, they kill
42:03horses, they kill slaves, you know, they
42:05go completely bananas. We can't do that
42:08these days
42:09anymore. It might be there might be some
42:12people that have the idea that yeah,
42:14it's it would be a cool idea to like
42:16kill 10 horses really brutally when I'm
42:19dying. It is not and I wouldn't want
42:20that for myself, right? So, it's really
42:23important to
42:24look where am I? What part of if it is
42:30the Bible, if it is the ada, if it is
42:32the Quran or whatever, what makes sense
42:35in my life right now according to all
42:37the knowledge that we gathered through
42:39the centuries, according to the culture
42:41where I'm living in, according to the
42:42body that I have, right? And there is
42:46beautiful times where where that matches
42:50for a while. So especially in Denmark,
42:53you can see that Christianity and
42:55paganism peacefully coexisted for a long
42:59time, several hundred years. They had no
43:01problem uh to have a graveyard where
43:05there's a pagan person on one side and 5
43:07mters beside it there is a Christian
43:10person. And I think that is how it
43:11should be.
43:12tolerance, openness, an open heart, you
43:15know, support support your brother,
43:18support your sister in in its
43:20development, you know, in its striving
43:23for for peace, for love, for healing,
43:26that that is what it's about. Whatever
43:28stample, whatever stamp you wear,
43:30whatever dress you wear, whatever skin
43:32color you have, you know, the moment you
43:35start, my dress is worth more than
43:38yours. My skin color entitles me to
43:42certain things you know or your skin
43:44color does not entitle you to certain
43:46things. That is where intolerance
43:48starts. That is where the problems
43:50start, you know. That is where disease
43:52start. That is where soul crushing
43:54starts. You
43:56know that is what I think about. Thank
43:59you. Thank you so much. I saw like you
44:02on stage you have that elaborated uh
44:05costume and you have masks and actually
44:07different masks. So can you tell a
44:09little bit about meaning of your
44:11costume? Like you probably have some
44:13symbols there or like elements that
44:16symbolize something. M.
44:19Yes. My costume
44:22uh a lot of people who who did not do
44:28much research, who just scratched the
44:31surface of research, they look at me and
44:33they're like, "Oh my god, he's dressing
44:35up like a Siberian shaman.
44:38That's very simple said and uh of course
44:41if people decide to believe that it's
44:44fine you know I I do not force anyone to
44:47get the
44:48knowledge but whoever takes the
44:51time deepens his or her knowledge goes
44:55deeper in the research maybe zooms in on
44:59the
45:00photo will see that there is like very
45:03very strong differences in between my
45:08regalia, my outfit and Siberian
45:11shamanism. One of the most important
45:13differences is when you look at me and
45:16when you look at Maria, you will see
45:18that we have actual deer or reindeer
45:22uh uh antlers on our head. You will not
45:26find that in Siberian shamanism. The
45:29antlers that these guys are wearing are
45:31usually made of metal.
45:34Why do we wear actual antlers that is
45:38deeply deeply deeply rooted into old
45:43European
45:44spirituality? We have in Germany for
45:46example there is the what they call the
45:49shaman from Bat Dunbach. She comes from
45:52the very early stone age and she has an
45:55actual small deer antler on her head.
45:58There's also other deer antlers found
46:02not attached to a person but we can see
46:04in the drillings and everything also
46:06from the very early stone
46:07age. Uh we can see on the drillings that
46:10they were worn on the head. We also find
46:13that in England and that is the
46:15reason why we do that have actual
46:18antlers on our
46:21head also. Then when you look at my
46:25coat, you will see that there's a lot of
46:29strings attached, amulets, bells, and
46:33everything. And of course, I live in the
46:35here and now. I live in the 21st
46:37century, and I get a lot of these things
46:40as a gift, and I will put that on. And I
46:44will not
46:45care if that is actually authentic. But
46:50the majority of the things attached to
46:53my quote are reconstructions from Europe
46:59or Scandinavia from the pre-Christian
47:02times. And we also know that people back
47:05then were doing stuff like that. We uh
47:09we we have in the sagas
47:12uh one of the vulvas she sends out her
47:14helper to bring her the coat with the
47:18straps and she needs that coat to do
47:22sra. That is the reason why I made this
47:25coat with the straps. Of course, we're
47:27we're lacking a mummified spiritual
47:30worker from that time where we can
47:32clearly say this is exactly how they
47:35looked. It's interpretation. It's art,
47:39you know. Under my coat, I have
47:43something that I wear, something that we
47:45know that the Vikings or like the
47:48Germanic people of the late Iron Age
47:51that they were wearing. And that goes
47:54down all the way to the seams to the
47:57weaving and everything. That is an
47:59actual Viking dress reconstructed to the
48:03very last
48:04scene. The closest we can get these
48:07days, of
48:10course. Maybe a little bit lighter uh
48:13question. I still have couple. I recall
48:16that story about how ano was made. So
48:20you brought the text and Maria said that
48:23oh uh the music just appeared in her
48:27head right away she was able to sing.
48:30Some philosophers they talk a little bit
48:34or not a bit like they interested in
48:36like where ideas come from where those
48:38inspiration come from. So your opinion
48:42on that like as a person working with
48:45shamanism where ideas are coming from.
48:48So you're asking me for the core of
48:50creativity, correct? Yeah. Is it like
48:54when we hear a song of Hong on stage, is
48:57it like because some spirits send us
48:59that song or is it because a person
49:02actually created it?
49:04You know, to put it very simple. I think
49:06it's both. I think it's both.
49:10So my one of my favorite sayings is that
49:14inspiration lays in the bottom of
49:16boredom.
49:19So and that is also what a lot of
49:22artists naturally do. They kind of
49:24retreat you know they make a safe space
49:27where they have nothing else than
49:31openness to access this mystical
49:35ungraspable point. The source of idea uh
49:39the source of ideas
49:41inspiration basically in the word
49:46inspiration we have spirit already. So I
49:50believe that in the old cultures that
49:54inspiration which is nowadays looked at
49:56very very sober that people back then
50:00believed that that was spirits
50:02whispering to them. That is also how I
50:05experience it. A lot of artists might
50:08may experience it differently and that
50:10they have the feeling that everything
50:13comes out of themselves, right? I I do
50:16not I do not believe that. So, and and I
50:19also do not experience it uh like that.
50:22Of course, it is my hand writing down
50:25the words, right? But that is also one
50:29of the fundamental things in shamanism.
50:34You as a person that is working
50:36shamanically, you are supposed to empty
50:39yourself. Like all your all your ego,
50:44all yourself, all your everything that
50:47is that is like basically
50:51you that you try to take it back. that
50:55you're kind of a hollow bone that just
50:57has that energy, that
51:00inspiration, that rune power or whatever
51:04healing power that that is just fle
51:06freely flowing through you, you know,
51:08and like I there's like
51:11several songs and parts of lyrics from
51:14Hilong
51:16that I'm done with the ceremony. I'm
51:19done with retreating or uh and I open my
51:23book and I have absolutely no
51:27recollection what and how and when I
51:30wrote that. It was just written there. I
51:33can see it's my handwriting but I have
51:35no recollection doing it. And that is
51:38usually the things that hit people
51:42deepest. Right? And
51:44also the words itself we have no idea
51:47what it means especially when it comes
51:49to the ano anuana song. But when I start
51:52reciting when I start reciting them it's
51:55very often that like the three of us sit
51:57in the room I recite the words I read
52:00them out loud and at some point
52:03Christopher starts tapping on the table.
52:05Maria starts humming and for some
52:09magical
52:10mystical or just creative reason that
52:14stuff pops up. How it exactly works, I
52:18don't know. It just happens and it's
52:19beautiful and it works.
52:22And to round up the interview, uh maybe
52:25some message just to the listeners like
52:28something that you want them to carry
52:32with them after they watch the video.
52:37Do not beat your
52:38children. Just don't
52:42ever. That's one of the best advices you
52:44can get from
52:47me. That is how
52:50you release a healthy soul to the
52:53challenges of the
52:57world. Thank you so much for your time
52:59today. It was a pleasure and it was so
53:03informative. Thank you. Thank you for
53:05having me.

About this transcript

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