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July Volunteer Meeting Dr. Cushing — Transcript

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0:01Thank you so much for everybody joining
0:03us for our July volunteer meeting.
0:08And those of you that are watching
0:10recording, thank you so much for always
0:12watching it in a timely manner and your
0:14engagement and attentiveness. The
0:16keyword or phrase is going to be at the
0:17end. Um it is a fun fact about Dr.
0:19Cushing and you'll just simply email me
0:21that. So use my Ajaxunoxle.org
0:24or ZK volunteers.org and I'll get those
0:28two hours and meeting credit added for
0:30you. Um, it has been a hot start to
0:34July, but I cannot believe that it is
0:37July. We are over halfway through 2026,
0:40which is insane. Cannot believe it. Um,
0:43but so grateful to have you all here. I
0:45say it every single month. Your
0:46presence, your drive, your education,
0:49your love and passion for our zoo is so
0:53contagious, which is great. I love it.
0:59Thank you for always extending our
1:02mission and vision every single time you
1:04are here at the zoo. We are so thankful
1:06for that and we're so glad that you do
1:08that. We are also so glad that you exude
1:12our core values. We are so grateful that
1:14you care. You serve our community. You
1:16welcome everyone. You have integrity. We
1:18strive for excellence. We educate. And
1:20above all, we have fun while we're here
1:23at the zoo. Now, we have our next
1:27volunteer lunch that is coming up on
1:30Saturday, July 25th. It is going to be
1:32from 11 to 1. Just a reminder on how
1:35these work. It is a drop in event. You
1:38don't have to stay the whole 2 hours.
1:39You can come for 45 minutes. You can
1:42come for an hour. If you really, really
1:44want to get some hours, you can stay for
1:46two hours. Um, we are really wanting to
1:49continue to expand our community. We
1:52really want to continue to expand
1:54volunteer connection. I know we don't
1:56get to have in-person meetings all the
1:57time and potlucks and socials are not
2:00everybody's peanut butter and jelly, but
2:02we want the opportunity for us to
2:04connect and we want the opportunity for
2:05you all to do this. So, we're going to
2:08talk about difficult situations because
2:12here at the zoo sometimes we have some
2:15really interesting questions. We have
2:16some really uncertain things. So, we
2:20want to be able to navigate through
2:22those together and talk about
2:24experiences, sing kumbaya, things like
2:26that. Um, because zoo volunteers do not
2:31have to have every answer. So, we want
2:32to work together and do that. So, with
2:36those different questions, we want to be
2:38able to collaborate. So, you're going to
2:39sign up under the code social
2:41networking. Again, 11 to 1. Stop by
2:43anytime, bring your lunch, something to
2:46snack on, something to collaborate with,
2:48and we're gonna have a really good time.
2:50So, hope you guys are able to join us.
2:53Again, super relaxed, super chill. Um,
2:56not a real agenda, but just again, an
2:58opportunity to be a community of
3:00volunteers and be able to help each
3:01other and collaborate together. So, that
3:03is Saturday, July 25th.
3:07We have the fabulous, wonderful,
3:10outstanding
3:12Cynthia Maples for next month's meeting.
3:15Um, I usually try to have her every
3:17couple of years and it has been a hot
3:18minute since we have had her. There have
3:21been some wonderful new residents to our
3:25nightclub and and it's going to be so
3:28great to hear from her, maybe get an
3:30update on our bees, um, all things kids
3:33cove. So, if you are passionate about
3:34Kids Cove, you be ready. You be ready
3:37for it. Um, it is going to be all
3:40online. So, let me say that again. It is
3:42going to be all online Tuesday, August
3:44the 18th at 2:00 p.m. and at 700 p.m.
3:47And just a reminder of our protocol with
3:51meetings, if you realize that Tuesday,
3:54August the 18th does not work for you,
3:57you have whatever going on, our
3:59students, amazing students are back to
4:01school. um we adults that work during
4:05the day, you know, all the wonderful
4:06things that we do. Um send me an email
4:09and I will send you the recording and
4:11you get to be the first to get the
4:14recording of the meeting. So um these
4:17meetings I as you guys know I strive
4:19really really hard to make them
4:20meaningful and wonderful and exciting
4:22and having really outstanding
4:24individuals to accompany us. So, um, so
4:28yeah, sign up under the CO continuing
4:31education August 18th at 2 p.m. and at 7
4:33p.m. and all online, all online.
4:37Again, another really important meeting
4:40that's coming up, we are going to get to
4:42hear from Bill Street, our president and
4:44CEO here at Zun Knoxville. So, it is
4:47going to be Saturday, August the 29th at
4:5010:00 a.m. We are not recording this
4:54meeting. Um, it is really just, you
4:56know, as I said in the July volunteer
4:58meeting, you know, you got to be in the
5:00room where it happens if you're a fan of
5:03Alexander Hamilton. So, you want to be
5:05there when it happens. Um, so that is
5:08going to be at 10:00 a.m. It is going to
5:10be upstairs in the LCCCC
5:13and there's going to be um just
5:16wonderful information to be shared. Um,
5:18it's going to be just outstanding. So,
5:22we're very, very excited for that. Um,
5:24again, August 29th, 10:00 a.m.
5:28And our final announcement before we
5:31turn it over to Dr. Cushing, we have our
5:35final advanced interpretation training
5:38of 2026.
5:40Um, we are able to do this in September.
5:43um just based on feedback, you know, um
5:45we're we're always, you know, trying
5:48really hard to get as much participation
5:50as possible when it comes to these
5:52trainings. They're super super valuable.
5:55Um it's just a great opportunity to gain
5:57confidence. This is not a test. This is
5:59not a check off. This is not a mandatory
6:02mandated extravaganza. Um, it's just an
6:05opportunity for volunteers that interact
6:07with our guests to be able to get those
6:09principles of interpretation and being
6:11able to learn how to provoke, relate,
6:14unite, uh, and being able to use these
6:17techniques when talking to our guests.
6:19Um, lots and lots of practice, lots of
6:22improv, games, interactives, things like
6:25that. So, it is a two-day training. And
6:28just a reminder on that, you know,
6:29Autumn, why is it two days? Why do we
6:31have to do two days? Day one is all the
6:34classroom stuff. So, we do all the
6:36learning. We we practice. We ask
6:39questions. We practice a little bit
6:40more. We learn specific animal
6:43information to use those techniques and
6:46then we are able to apply that on day
6:49two. Day two, you were able to tell us
6:52ahead of time the animals that you
6:54really are passionate about. So, if I'm
6:55passionate about Tigers, then I'm going
6:57to practice on day two talking about the
7:00Tigers because I'm super passionate
7:02about the Tigers and our teachers are
7:05able to really help us and guide us um
7:08in just making that just a really
7:10comfortable experience for everyone. So,
7:11we're very excited about this. So, it is
7:14under continuing education. You do need
7:16to sign up for both days. So, Saturday,
7:19September the 12th and Saturday,
7:21September the 19th. If these two dates
7:24don't work for you, if you can come to
7:28the first day,
7:30we can try to make arrangements for you
7:32to do a one-on-one. It is a lot more
7:34meaningful to be there on day two, but I
7:36know several people have been missing
7:38the class and they've been really
7:40wanting to do it. So, um just just
7:43communicate with me, let me know. Um as
7:45always, if there's anything I can help
7:46you with, please communicate with me.
7:48Um, but otherwise we will start these
7:50back up in 2027,
7:52which sounds like a long way away right
7:55now. Um, but as always guys, if there's
7:58anything I can help you with, if there's
8:00anything that I can do to support you or
8:02add some hours in, hey Autumn, you
8:05forgot that volunteer meeting credit,
8:06can you fix that? Um, anything that I
8:09can do to help you, um, please let me
8:13know.
8:14And now it is time to turn it over to
8:19Dr. Andrew Cushing. So he is the
8:22clinical associate professor of
8:25zoological medicine in the small animal
8:27clinic sciences department at the
8:30University of Tennessee govalls. Um so
8:33we're very excited to have him today. Um
8:36last year we were super blessed to get
8:37to hear from Dr. Julie Sheldon. So very
8:40very excited to get to hear Dr.
8:42Kushing's perspective on our partnership
8:45with University of Tennessee College of
8:47Veterary Medicine and just how animal
8:50health is so it's so critical. It's so
8:53important and you know this is just
8:55going to give you all extra background
8:58when it comes to talking to our guest um
9:01and being able to just you know extend
9:03those animal stories and and all of
9:04those great things. So I'm going to hush
9:07and I'm going to turn it over to Dr.
9:09Cushing.
9:11Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate
9:12it. And thanks for all the work you guys
9:14do. We all appreciate you. Um, I didn't
9:16put put a PowerPoint together. I thought
9:18I'd just talk if that's okay. Yeah, just
9:21feel free to shout questions or whatever
9:23you want. Um, so a couple of questions.
9:26What's the oddest case and what's the
9:28funniest issue or most unusual case?
9:31That could all be the same thing.
9:34Um, I think a lot of the animals we see,
9:36so when we're in vet school, we get very
9:39minimal teaching on zoological animals.
9:41It's mostly dogs, cats, horses, cows.
9:44And so I went to vet school in England
9:47and graduated in 2007. And then after
9:50that worked in some zoos and did a
9:52residency in upstate New York at Cornell
9:56and worked in some zoos up there and
9:58then did some special exams and then
10:01ended up here about 10 years ago. So,
10:03I've been a vet nearly 20 years and a
10:05zoo vet for about 17 of those. So, I
10:08couldn't go back to dogs and cats and I
10:11would never I'd rather go and fix cars
10:13than do dog and cat medicine. But, um,
10:17so I have a a strange collection of
10:20cases. But, yeah, I think the oddest
10:22things are,
10:24you know, we're taught about the normal
10:26species, if you will, and then a lot of
10:28Zoo Medicine is extrapolating that to
10:30various species and seeing how they
10:31manage. So, just one I can think of top
10:34of my head was actually not a Zunoxville
10:36animal. If that's okay, if you guys are
10:38okay talking about non-zunville stuff,
10:41it was a tamando. You guys know what a
10:43tamando is? It's like a little mini
10:45anter, like a central American anter
10:47species. They're really cute and a lot
10:49of zoos have them as ambassador animals.
10:52So, they'll take them out, they'll meet
10:53the public, you know, they'll mess
10:55around.
10:57Um, and this demander came to us kind of
10:59sick, you know, not really nothing
11:01really specific, just quiet, you know,
11:03lethargic, not really eating. Um, so we
11:07did the usual, which was take blood off
11:09it and do an X-ray, do some ultrasound.
11:12And as part of that exam, you know, we
11:15take blood and get blood all over
11:17ourselves. They tend to lick you, so you
11:19can hold them and they get this little
11:20tongue and it goes right in your ear.
11:23So, we messed around with this slobbery
11:24horrible animal, you know, thought this
11:26is pretty cute. Um, not really thinking
11:29about infectious diseases, which comes
11:31back to bite me in the butt.
11:34Um, anyway, this thing passed away,
11:37which is unfortunate, went to necropsy,
11:39which is where we find most of our
11:41answers. And we said, the necropsy said
11:44we didn't find much on the gross exam,
11:47which is when you look at the whole
11:48body. So we send off parts of the body
11:50to look under a microscope and see if we
11:52can find some specific diseases. And
11:54they said, "Hey, we found some weird
11:55things in the brain. Uh we think it
11:57could be distemper, which is a disease
12:00mostly of dogs and carnivores and stuff
12:02like that." So we said, "Okay, well send
12:03it off to a lab and find out." So they
12:05sent it off and it came back. It's
12:07negative for distemper. They said,
12:08"Well, what you know what else could it
12:10be?" They said, "Well, the only other
12:12thing it could be really is rabies."
12:15[laughter]
12:17And so we're like, "No, it can't be
12:19rabies." Because Tamando is in a
12:21collection of animals called Zenarthra.
12:23We've never seen rabies in Zenathra
12:25because their body temperature is so
12:26low. So everyone thinks they can't get
12:27rabies. This virus doesn't live in this
12:29animal. It's fine. Well, let's just test
12:31it anyway. They said, "Okay, you know,
12:33inside I'm a little bit sweaty because
12:35this thing's been around the whole
12:36hospital like bleeding and slobbering on
12:38people, licking my eardrum, you know."
12:41Um, and of course it came up positive
12:46and then if you find a rabies positive
12:48animal, it goes to the CDC. So the CDC
12:51checks it and they sent the report back
12:53and they said, "This is the most
12:55positive rabies brain we've ever seen."
12:58[laughter]
13:01Which, as you can imagine, this is six
13:03weeks after this animal died because of
13:05all the testing that went on. It went
13:07out and came back and went out and came
13:08back. Um, so this email landed on my
13:12desk like, "Okay, now we've got this
13:13rabies animal." So I had to email, you
13:16know, occupational health, this guy
13:18who's very nice, but had no idea what
13:20was going on. And I said, so, you know,
13:22we had this animal, it was rabies
13:24positive, you know, what do you want us
13:26to do? And so he panics and wants to get
13:3030 people vaccinated for postexposure
13:32rabies. And he said, "Was anybody bit?"
13:35And I said, 'Well, you know, they don't
13:36have teeth, so no.
13:40He goes, "Was anyone exposed to the
13:42saliva?" And I said, "Well, maybe there
13:44was some slight
13:46saliva exposure inside my eardrum."
13:49And he said, "You've got to get
13:50postexposure rabies immediately." I
13:52said, "Brian, like this was six weeks
13:54ago. I'd be dead by now. I think I'm
13:56totally okay." And you know,
13:58fortunately, nobody got rabies, but it
14:00was kind of humorous for a little while
14:01to see the snowball effect of this
14:04rabies positive tomando.
14:06Um, so that was an interesting case, but
14:08it just raises the question that we
14:10never really know what's going on. Um,
14:11and usually necropsy gives us the
14:13answers, which unfortunate. Any
14:16questions on the rabbit anter? Yes, you
14:20look puzzled, so carry on.
14:23>> Um, okay. So, you said that they don't
14:25normally get that. Did Did you guys ever
14:27figure out how it got it?
14:30>> Yeah, we actually typed the virus to a
14:32wild strain that was hanging around and
14:34it probably just harbored it for a long
14:36time and then broke with disease. Yeah.
14:40And it just adds to the literature, you
14:42know, hey, now we know that these
14:43animals can get rabies, so we should
14:45vaccinate them.
14:46>> Yeah.
14:50>> I'm sorry if you didn't say earlier, but
14:52where was this in the United States? It
14:55was
14:56>> okay. Was it
14:58>> like in New York?
15:00>> No, it was in Tennessee.
15:01>> It was in Tennessee.
15:03>> Next question.
15:04>> Next question.
15:05>> Different career path. How did I choose
15:07which path or specialty? Is this
15:08somebody that would like to go to vet
15:09school? Vet school.
15:11>> Okay. Um, so I always wanted to be a
15:13Zuvet from being younger than him.
15:16Either a Zuvet, a famous footballer, or
15:17a fighter pilot. And my legs weren't
15:20good enough to play football. And I was
15:22I couldn't deal with the authority to be
15:24a fighter pilot. So I became a Zubet
15:26football, not soccer.
15:29Um so when you go to vet school, you get
15:32a general veterary degree which allows
15:34you to work with whatever species you
15:36want. And if you want to find a
15:37specialist niche, there's normally an
15:40internship and a residency. So four to
15:43five years of post postvet school
15:45training in order to get certification
15:47in whatever niche that you would like.
15:50So, you want to be a dog dermatologist,
15:52there's a career path for that. You want
15:53to be a pathologist, there's a career
15:55path for that. There's all kinds of
15:57areas that you can specialize into.
16:01>> I think we've got another question from
16:03Lilia that is also interested in um
16:07veterary paths and and things too with
16:09careers.
16:10>> Um so, I didn't go to UT, but I've been
16:12there 10 years teaching there. So, I can
16:13tell you about the UT course or I can
16:14tell you about my vet course. Which
16:16would you like?
16:16>> Okay. So in England it's a little
16:18different, but if you're if you're
16:20American, you can go and study in Europe
16:22and do it in four years. Yeah, you can
16:24do it either place. I think it's a lot
16:26cheaper to do in the UK. Um I do a talk
16:29for the high school association in
16:31Tennessee every year and I try and tell
16:32them about money and the average vet
16:35school debt. The average vet student,
16:37can you guys think what the debt would
16:38be?
16:40>> What would the debt be for a veterary
16:43student?
16:44>> It's about It's about $300,000.
16:47And that's the mean, right? So there's
16:49some people that come into it and come
16:50out with no debt because they have money
16:52behind them. And there's some people
16:53that have no support, so they're a lot
16:54higher on the spectrum. So I try and
16:56tell some 16-year-olds about this, like,
16:57hey, this is a big decision. You know,
16:59this is a house essentially. And if you
17:02crunch the numbers and didn't go to vet
17:04school and got a job that didn't require
17:06to do that, you know, take the average
17:08salary and work through it and didn't
17:10spend that time studying and getting
17:11into that debt, you'd probably break
17:13about even. So moneywise, it's not it's
17:16not the career path that you want if you
17:18if you're chasing the money. But if it's
17:20the job you want, that's great. I think
17:21you should go for it thousand%.
17:24Um I think the curriculum has probably
17:27changed since I was in England, but over
17:30at UT, it's it's a pretty good
17:32curriculum. Um it's busy and it's
17:35difficult, but I think vet school's
17:37supposed to be hard. Um some vet schools
17:40will track. So if you know you're
17:42interested in small animal, they'll
17:44track their education through 70% small
17:47animal stuff and not much large animal
17:49and you can track large animal as well.
17:51UT doesn't track, it just does a general
17:54syllabus.
17:56Um it doesn't track officially, I should
17:58say. You can still kind of pick and
18:00choose what you do when you get to
18:01rotations.
18:03So sorry, let me read your questions.
18:05See if you have anything else. Okay.
18:07What clubs or activities do you
18:08recommend to do to stand out when when
18:10applying to colleges? That's a good
18:12question. Um, we had I think I think
18:16there's about 100 seats per year in the
18:18vet school over at UT and there was
18:20probably I think 2,000 applicants maybe
18:23last year, maybe two and a half
18:24thousand.
18:26So, it it becomes pretty difficult to
18:28separate people.
18:30What I will say, having read a lot of
18:32letters and looked at a lot of people's
18:34experience, is don't don't claim stuff
18:39that's not true. So, I remember one
18:41letter someone said, I have 140,000
18:44hours of looking after dogs. And I was
18:45like, well, that's a lot. They must have
18:47worked in a kennels. And then you read
18:48the letter and it was just they just
18:50looked after their pet Labrador for 10
18:53years. And I was like, this this doesn't
18:55count. This goes this moves over to this
18:57pile. Um so don't don't embellish that
19:00way but doing things like this is great.
19:01I think you know this this really makes
19:03you stand out. Um I think coming into
19:07the vet school career
19:10there's some hard truths about when you
19:13graduate and one of them is um things
19:15like the suicide rate is pretty high. Um
19:19people come out of vet school I think
19:20there's a number of things and if you
19:22take them all into account most people
19:24that get into vet school are pretty
19:25intelligent. you know, most of them are
19:27type A and they get out with $300,000
19:30worth of debt. And if they're not going
19:33to specialize, they end up in general
19:35practice, which is great if that's what
19:37you want. But probably 70 to 80% of
19:40general practice is actually pretty
19:41routine. And so, a lot of people think,
19:44man, I've come this far. I've done all
19:46this. I'm not mentally stimulated
19:48anymore. I have all this debt. Clients
19:51are mad at me all the time. Clients are
19:52angry about the money. and it can really
19:54snowball with a lot of people. So, I
19:56think what we look for in people's
19:58applications is experience of the
20:02career, I'd say. So, going to vets and
20:04working there, getting the experience,
20:06knowing what the job is actually like,
20:08you know, not just I I just want to work
20:10with puppies, right? It's like I know
20:12what this job entails. I know what the
20:14hardships are. I still want to do this
20:16as a career. This is all I want. You
20:17know, this is what I want to do. And I
20:19think that really stands up pretty well
20:21because we don't want to get people that
20:22come out and then are unhappy. You know,
20:24it doesn't it doesn't work for anybody,
20:26right? So that's really what we look for
20:28a lot of grades help for sure. Yeah,
20:33>> that's awesome. Thank you, Dr. Kushing.
20:35Um we're going to go ahead and do some
20:38questions on Zoom. So we're grateful to
20:40have our volunteers um be in the chat
20:45box. So um Dr. Cushing, is it true that
20:50possums cannot get rabies?
20:53>> Well, based on previous experience,
20:56[laughter]
21:00I would say that any mammal could get
21:02rabies.
21:03The thing about it is if if the
21:06incubation period of that disease is six
21:08months, the average possum lives about
21:1018 months to two years.
21:12So, the chance of them harboring rabies
21:15and then becoming raid is pretty slim.
21:18The other thing you've got to look at is
21:20for it to get rabies, it has to be bit
21:23by a rabid animal and then survive,
21:26right? And if you're a possum, you you
21:28may not get in survive getting bit by a
21:30rabid fox or a coyote, right? You're
21:32probably going to die. So, yes, I think
21:35you could. The chance is slim.
21:38>> That's excellent. Thank you so much, Dr.
21:40Kushing. Um, another ravage squirrels,
21:42right? If they go by something, they
21:44die.
21:45>> U another question that we have is, can
21:48you share with us what has been the last
21:52major checkup you've had to do on an
21:55animal here at Zoo Knoxville?
21:58>> Uh yeah, if I remember,
22:02um we could talk about Lou. You guys
22:04know about the case, Lou, the
22:05chimpanzeee. You guys want to hear about
22:06him? He's doing really well. Uh, the
22:09last big checkup we did, I know define
22:12big checkup like big surgery or big
22:13animal.
22:15>> Your choice.
22:16>> Okay. Um,
22:21I do both. We talk about Lou. How's
22:23that? Well, he's fresh in my head. So,
22:25do you guys know about Lou the chimp?
22:26What he presented with and how he saw?
22:28>> Yes. That big major spinal surgery.
22:31>> So, he presented with some weird
22:34ambulation. He wasn't using his legs
22:35very well and he kind of looked like he
22:37wasn't comfortable. He was had a
22:39hunchback and wasn't you know wasn't
22:40sleeping in the same position. So we
22:44you know I think with all our animals
22:47you know we try meds first and see if we
22:49can resolve things that way. So tried
22:50some muscle relaxance some pain
22:52medication. Didn't really see a big
22:53difference in him. And so you know the
22:56worry with him was were his clinical
22:58signs neurological like did he have a
23:00neurological basis for his disease or
23:02was it pain? And when he failed to
23:04respond to the pain medication, we're
23:05like, "Well, maybe there's a
23:06neurological basis here, so we should
23:07MRI him." So, we took him to the vet
23:10school, did MRI, CT, maybe both, can't
23:13remember, and found a found a mass next
23:15to his spine, which is which was a
23:20turned out to be hemangioma, which was
23:22actually best case scenario.
23:24And at first, we had, you know, we were
23:26well, I was looking at it and I don't
23:28know what I'm looking at, you know.
23:29Yeah, looks like a spine. Oh, yeah. I
23:31see a lump. I don't know what to do from
23:32here. So, we have neurologists. So, like
23:35we talked about vet disciplines. There's
23:37a team of vet neurologists over at UT
23:39and they looked at it and they were
23:40like, well, you know, it's in the spine
23:42and it goes down the nerve roots. You
23:44know, we don't think this is surgical.
23:46This is going to be really hard to
23:47manage. We should put him on steroids.
23:49You know, try and shrink that tumor as
23:51much as we can and watch his quality of
23:52life. That was the that was the goal.
23:55And then I thought, well, maybe we
23:58should just, you know, check with a
23:59human neurologist. you know, there's
24:00chimpanzeee. He's 95% human, 99% chimp,
24:03you know, whatever the whatever the
24:05demographics are. And he was a really
24:08cool dude and he knew the neurologist at
24:09UT and he and I sent him the MRI and he
24:11was like, you know what? I think we can
24:13do this. And so we bounced the idea
24:16around and we talked to the keepers and
24:17we said, look, you know, no one's done
24:18this before. We don't know. We don't
24:20know how he's going to recover, but we
24:21do know that if you put him on meds,
24:24it's really hospice care and this tumor
24:26is going to continue to grow and at some
24:27point he's not going to be around
24:28anymore. So if you want to try, we
24:30should try now. And so they said,
24:33"Okay." Um, and as probably most of you
24:35know, we took him to surgery over at UT.
24:37We opened up his spine and we took out
24:38the tumor and he did great. And he's
24:42bouncing around down there like Lou. I
24:44don't know how many of you like the
24:45great apes, but Lou is a special case
24:49[laughter]
24:50and has actually healed incredibly well.
24:53Um, and I think chimps are chimps are
24:56truly amazing in terms of pain
24:59management. You know, the the human
25:01neurologist was like, you know, we do
25:02this on people, you know, they're laid
25:03up for like six weeks, you know, before
25:05they start moving again. Of course, Lou
25:063 days later is like trying to climb,
25:08trying to bounce, trying to throw
25:10things. Like, I don't know what you guys
25:12are complaining about. My back's just
25:13cold because it's shaved, but I kind of
25:15want to move around. So, he did great.
25:18Um, and he's still doing great. And
25:20actually when we sent the mass off to
25:22biopsy to find out what it was, it came
25:23back as he angioma which is not a tumor
25:26that's going to spread to other places
25:28and the human surgeon was like look it
25:30all came out. There's no there's no
25:32worry about like he said if this was a
25:34person you'd repeat the CT MRI in a year
25:37or so just to see if it's growing back.
25:39But he said it came out all the way and
25:40with people we never see that this tumor
25:42grows back. So really a win-win for Lou.
25:45So that was a good one. All the animals
25:48at the zoo, correct? You guys check on
25:50all of them and do do exams and such.
25:52>> There's some we prefer, but yes, we do
25:55them all.
25:57>> Yeah. So, so we contract to UT. So,
26:00we're employed by UT, myself and Julie
26:03and we contract to the zoo as the
26:06full-time veterinarians
26:08to do the work around East Tennessee.
26:10So, we help out at a few other
26:11collections as well. You know, I do the
26:13work for uh the Pirates Voyage, the Sea
26:15Lions over there in Pigeon Forge.
26:17There's another zoo out in Pigeon Forge
26:18that's doing really well. H we do the
26:21work for Tiger Haven, which is like half
26:22an hour, you know, that way um out
26:25towards Kingston. So, we're at the zoo
26:28currently about three days a week. So,
26:30our pencil in schedule is Monday,
26:32Wednesday, Friday. Now with Zoo
26:34Knoxville's collection
26:37on an upswing I would say over the past
26:39few years and with plans for more
26:40animals the zoo uh and UT did some
26:44discussions I don't know a months ago
26:47and basically we've hired another
26:49veterinarian Dr. Swanipole, who you guys
26:51may have met. She's been a resident with
26:53us for four years. So, we've been
26:55training her, she's going to sit her
26:56exams in October, and then come October
27:01when she's finished her exam, we're
27:03going to have a vet on site five days a
27:06week, probably 40 weeks a year.
27:09So, it'll be me, Dr. Swanipole, Dr.
27:12Sheldon. We'll rotate around. So, one of
27:14us will be on the truck driving around
27:16the back roads of East Tennessee. One of
27:18us will be here at the zoo and one of us
27:20will be off clinics doing teaching and
27:21research. So the zoo will be have more
27:24vet presence which I think is nice.
27:28>> Um this is a really good one and I'm
27:29going to I'm going to kind of give my
27:30answer and then I want to give it to
27:32you. Um volunteer asked about the new
27:35veterary hospital and um I was super
27:38blessed to be able to do a meeting last
27:40week. Um, so right now what's happening
27:42is we're kind of doing some focus groups
27:45and we're just kind of sitting in and
27:47we're we're kind of dividing out our
27:49thoughts um into several different
27:51categories. You know, what are some
27:53musthaves that we have to have at this
27:56veterary hospital? What are things that
27:57just we have to have, can't live
27:58without. Then we have another category
28:01that's like, well, it would be really
28:02nice to have this. I think it would be
28:05it would be great if we if we could have
28:07this. Um and then we also have some
28:09categories just kind of talking about
28:11challenges and things like that. So my
28:14answer to this from that meeting last
28:16week um is right now we are really
28:19talking about
28:20um and Dr. Kushian, you're more than
28:22welcome to give your opinion on this,
28:24but you know, if we if we have a open
28:29window, open exam window and something
28:32goes wrong, what are some of the
28:35mitigations and things that we need to
28:37be able to do? Do we have a terms and
28:40conditions when you purchase a ticket
28:41that when you go up to the veterary
28:43hospital, you cannot do any video
28:45recording or any photos? do we um the
28:48idea that I had presented was um having
28:52you know the big room and having the
28:54window you know only go so far and then
28:58having a curtain almost like a shower
29:00curtain that kind of divides up that
29:02room so if they needed to cordon
29:04something off you could still see
29:06through the window but you couldn't
29:07necessarily see what's going on you know
29:10back behind the scenes because you know
29:12anything can happen. So, we've just
29:13been, you know, just kind of, you know,
29:15toying around with that. You know, of
29:16course, I've advocated um for a space
29:19for a dosent table. Um I've advocated
29:22for that and doing um like a veterary
29:24zoo cart. Um so, maybe having some
29:27samples of x-rays and being able to show
29:30that to our guests. Um any other
29:32veterary tools, you know, that would be
29:34really really smart. Um sadly, I am not
29:36super versed in the veterary field. Um
29:38so, we of course would get, you know,
29:39tools for that. um and to be able to use
29:42that for our volunteers and then of
29:43course those animal presentations. So
29:45anyone who is um certified to do those
29:48pre presentations to be able to do that
29:50in the vet hospital. Um so I'll be more
29:53than happy to kind of update you guys
29:55more. We're going to be doing a ton of
29:57these meetings. Um just getting a lot of
29:59feedback from different staff and just
30:02really trying to get the scope of of
30:04everything because we, you know, really
30:06want to be intentional about the square
30:08footage. Um, and we kind of learned
30:09about that. Um, and kind of a lot of
30:12places are um, believe it was 12,000 to
30:1620,000 square footage. Um, some of the
30:19more bougie vet hospitals are more
30:21closer to 30,000 square feet. Um, but
30:24just kind of thinking about, you know,
30:26what are some of the best things that we
30:28can do? You know, should we have an
30:29exhibit up there? So, if there's not an
30:31exam going on, you know, what is
30:34something that, you know, guests can see
30:35when they go up there? because
30:36presently, those of you um that have not
30:38heard me talk about this or um Bill
30:41Street and then we'll get to hear Dr.
30:42Kushing talk about it is um it is
30:45currently
30:46in the works of being at the top of the
30:48nature trail. So, as you guys know from
30:51here at the front of the zoo in lower
30:52admin, that's quite a hike, you know,
30:54from the plaza. So, if someone is
30:57wanting to go up there, you know, from a
30:59guest experience, okay, you go, you
31:01know, to the left of the ark, you go
31:03across that lovely bridge, you kind of
31:06on that back side of SNL, you go the
31:07lovely woods, you know, things like
31:09that. Um, as you go up there, so, you
31:11know, for guest perspective, that's a
31:13long trek to go up there to see nothing.
31:18And so um so we're kind of thinking
31:20about that and just really honing in on
31:22institutions that are you know doing
31:24well with this um and things like that.
31:26So Dr. Cushing, what is your thoughts on
31:30the vet hospital and is there any any
31:33intel that you can share with us um on
31:35that vet hospital?
31:36>> I'm excited. I want a new place. Um
31:39yeah, we had a few meetings. So, we did
31:41some like I don't know, they had these
31:42post-it notes we had to stick on a board
31:45of like what was essential, what could
31:48we manage without I think I put coffee
31:50machine on essential. That was my that
31:52was the f that was the first thing I put
31:54on which I made sure stayed there. Um,
31:57but the question about the window is
31:58interesting because I've worked at
32:00places before where the window from the
32:03clinic to the outside world is there.
32:06And
32:07it's I don't know if you guys do you
32:09guys remember Wanto who's a gorilla who
32:12passed away here probably five or six
32:14years ago. I bet we were working on him
32:18at that window at Great Apes once and he
32:20started to arrest during a procedure and
32:23so they pulled the curtain and we got
32:26him back and he was okay. But it did
32:29raise a question of like what do you do
32:30with those situations and it led to a
32:32lot of questions and I think there's a
32:35few ways you do it. One is you have
32:37someone outside who's telling what's
32:38going on and the zoo's totally
32:39transparent and says, "Hey, something
32:41sometimes things go wrong, but you know,
32:42in this day and age, someone's recording
32:44it and posting it and, you know, picking
32:47up what's going wrong and picking up
32:48what everyone's doing wrong." So, you
32:50can you can imagine problems with that.
32:52I think the curtain is uh the cheap and
32:54cheerful idea, but to me it feels like
32:56an executioner chamber. You know, you
32:58kind of see the curtain come across and
33:00it's like, "Oh, this uh I've seen this
33:02on the green mile."
33:05And I think that the less cheap and
33:06cheerful one is frosted glass. So you
33:08can get that glass that you can press
33:10the button and it kind of frosts it over
33:11and that's kind of less curtainy but
33:14still blocks people's view. Um and I
33:17don't think there's a right answer. I
33:18think that's the main thing. Um, I have
33:21had experiences with I remember I had a
33:23I had a Siameanga sleep once and it was
33:26doing surgery on it and we took a tumor
33:27out and I remember like fiddling around
33:30inside this thing and of course when
33:31you're in there you forget that people
33:32are watching and then occasionally you
33:34glance up like 65 people like gorping on
33:37the window and I remember I totally
33:39forgot and I picked up this tumor and
33:40picked it up like this and it's dripping
33:42it's horrible and it's like looks like
33:43this. I happened to like look at the
33:45window at the same time and this little
33:46girl just pale and just totally
33:50offended. Just totally got
33:53maybe think of a new career. Um, so
33:56yeah, I think anything like that people
33:57could be offended by or hurt by or, you
34:00know, find a problem with, I should say.
34:03And I think it's not an easy an easy
34:05thing to do. Um, but I think the zoo
34:08should be transparent. You know, I think
34:09it's a public facing entity and people
34:12are interested and I don't think we do
34:15anything wrong. I mean, people make
34:17mistakes, right? we may lose an animal
34:19on public display and that would be a
34:20problem, but I don't think it's things
34:22we should hide
34:23>> kids and there's kind of a concern
34:26concern with that. So, we we want to be
34:29super super mindful of that with the
34:31with the guest experience.
34:32>> I'm just wondering what uh the vet
34:34school would do with the exotics
34:36facility once the zoo clinic is up and
34:40running. Would they keep that facility
34:42up and running as well or possibly
34:45uh repurpose that area for something
34:48else?
34:49>> You mean the exotic clinic over at UT at
34:51the vet school? Yeah, they keep it. So
34:53there's actually So at the moment
34:54there's four there's four faculty.
34:56There's four zoological medicine
34:57faculty. There's me and Julie and
34:59there's Dr. Taba and Dr. Canafo. And
35:01Taba and Canafo stay in the hospital and
35:04do the pocket pets, if you will, the
35:06birds and the rabbits and the private
35:08collections. Yeah. So they would stay
35:10and carry on with that. That's a that's
35:12a pretty nice unit back there. They have
35:13a lot of space and that that area has
35:16got room to grow as well. Um yeah, so
35:19they would stay there.
35:23>> We've got another inerson question.
35:26Um do um I know it's not your specialty,
35:29but um do you ever have animals that
35:32require like physical therapy or so
35:35forth? And um do you know like in
35:37general how would that be accomplished
35:40with um like especially like some of the
35:42larger species like rhinos or giraffes
35:43or something?
35:45>> Yeah, we we've we've missed I mean I
35:46think it's a good question. You know
35:48with dogs and cats we see a lot of
35:49postsurgical physical phys physical
35:51therapy. It's a big it's a big unit over
35:53at UT. There's underwater treadmills.
35:55There's like whole departments for it.
35:56And I think it improves the outcome
35:58postsurgery if they have like a cruciate
36:00ligament repair or something. We have
36:02tried in the past with our species to
36:04try and get them to move through
36:07training procedures uh through
36:10encouraging them to move if you will
36:12like postsurgery. That's the main
36:13physical therapy thing that I think you
36:15know we try with. Um you know I always
36:17think that immobility is a disease you
36:20know if an animal is old and arthritic
36:22and it becomes immobile it kind of
36:24doesn't get going again. I think you've
36:26got to keep that animal moving. We have
36:28tried with varying success with a number
36:31of creatures. Um the the one that
36:35springs to mind is um a a a tiger from
36:39another facility. Uh his name was Rascal
36:42and he was he was a big tiger. He was
36:46probably 420 lb 450 pounds but he was a
36:50friendly really nice cat. And he threw a
36:53disc. So, he had a disc that went on his
36:56spine. And we tried a couple of
36:58surgeries in the past and we'd
36:59struggled. One we did maybe 20 years ago
37:03before my time and that one never walked
37:06again. And so, you know, we lost that
37:07one. There was one after that that Tiger
37:10Haven actually built a swimming pool for
37:12because swimming is like the biggest
37:14physical therapy thing postsurgery and
37:16that one did okay, but never really
37:17pulled through. and Rascal. We're like,
37:20man, this is this is the this is the one
37:23to try everything we can because he's a
37:25friendly cat because we can kind of move
37:27him around. We can get in there
37:28afterwards. And for physical therapy
37:31with him, we put ropes on him outside of
37:33a what's called a rolling cage. I don't
37:34know if you guys have seen circus cages
37:36that are rolling cages that are like a 8
37:38foot by 4 foot x 4 foot cage. You can
37:41put a a cat in and have access
37:44everywhere. So, we could put ropes on
37:45him and flip him, you know, and move his
37:47legs. and he was pretty good about doing
37:49that and he he unfortunately didn't do
37:51very well but he was the one that we
37:53that really tried on. I think that just
37:54highlights one of the problems we see
37:56with physical therapy post surgery.
37:59Although I will say you know there's a
38:01lot of physical therapy planned for Lou
38:03who just ignored us and climbed around.
38:05So and the other great ape that springs
38:08to mind was Andy. Do you guys remember
38:09Andy? One of the baby gorillas. She was
38:12born
38:14pretty much the same time as you. I
38:16think 2016 2017 I don't remember when
38:19she was born but she developed a a
38:21disease in one of her knees. So um OCD
38:24was a disease of one of her knees that
38:26we saw in X-rays. So we actually got a
38:28human orthopod in to uh scope inside the
38:31joint and see if they could take out any
38:33flaps of bone that were in there. Um and
38:36he scoped it and he said you know this
38:37animal's going not going to move for a
38:39week. This is you know we see this with
38:40people they're beding it's really
38:42painful. And of course the next day, you
38:43know, she's jumping around and didn't
38:45need any physical therapy. So I think
38:47it's species dependent and we do try,
38:50but it's it's a hard cell sometimes.
38:55>> That's excellent. Thank you. We're going
38:56to go ahead to another person question.
38:59>> I have a couple questions. The first one
39:01is when you euthanize a pack or a herd
39:04animal, are the other animals that are
39:06members of that pack or herd allowed to
39:08see
39:10that animal afterward?
39:12>> Depends on the species. So for
39:14elephants, yes. So I think, you know, we
39:17see that behavior in the wild. For the
39:20great apes, we we also let them kind of
39:22come in and see. I will say it I think
39:26it's an anthropomorphic thing a little
39:27bit. So we humanize them and they they
39:30don't really care you know sometimes
39:32they come like I think the elephants
39:34were different but the great apes when
39:36we lost Wanto and when we lost they let
39:38her in to see koali and they just kind
39:40of walked around her you know they kind
39:41of poked her and then carried on. Um so
39:44it depends on the species you know I
39:45think we give the opportunity if it's
39:47and I've got no problem with it. Um but
39:50certainly with things like hooftock and
39:51things they they just move on.
39:55>> And um how much dialogue is there
39:58between the vets and zookeepers and
40:02animal animal behaviorists in terms of
40:05holistic and preventative things and you
40:07know just the community. I would I would
40:10guess but you can correct me if I'm
40:12wrong that with the vet clinic coming
40:14here there would be more exchange
40:16between the keepers and the vets. Yeah,
40:18we so we meet with a so we meet with the
40:20curators every every other week and the
40:22vets meet as a team weekly and generally
40:27when we go and see an animal I don't
40:29think ever at zoo Knoxville and this is
40:31why I like it here. I think at other
40:34zoos I've been to it's been a very
40:35one-way street like there was I worked
40:37at one zoo and one vet didn't get on
40:39with any keepers and he just got the
40:40animals delivered to the clinic. He'd
40:41take them in the box, he'd do his stuff
40:43and he'd send him out and he said, "You
40:44can read the medical notes of what we
40:46found." Which I don't think was a great
40:48outlook, but I think we're pretty I
40:51think I can't think of an issue when
40:54we've really butted heads with keepers.
40:56I mean, maybe a couple of little things.
40:59Um, in terms of case management, I think
41:02it's a pretty holistic kind of team
41:04approach. And we do have a behaviorist
41:05that come from the vet school who will
41:07help us out with behaviors. Um, we've
41:09had behaviorists come out here as well
41:12to try and help us train different
41:13behaviors for medical care. But they
41:16usually ask us what's most important and
41:18uh, you know, so for the giraffe at the
41:20moment, they're like, "Okay, what's most
41:21important on Francis? Is it hoof trims
41:24on all four feet? Is it opening the
41:27mouth? Is it getting blood?" I'm like,
41:28"Well, can you have all of them?" You
41:30know, and the thing is, I don't know
41:32which is most important, you
41:34[clears throat] know, because let's say
41:35she goes lame next week. Oh, well, I
41:38wish I could trim her feet. Well, we've
41:39been working on getting blood, you know,
41:41because you told me blood. And let's say
41:42she get, you know, I tell him to trim
41:44feet and then she gets sick and I want
41:45blood off her. Like, well, we can't get
41:47blood because we just worked on trimming
41:48her feet. So, we try.
41:52>> Um, is there any animal that you fear
41:56working on?
41:59>> Uh, I have a few scars. We could play
42:01the scars game. Um, I I think I have a
42:05healthy respect. Some animals have made
42:08me jump before for sure. If I never had
42:11to work on a silverback again, that
42:12would be totally fine by me.
42:16>> Fair.
42:16>> Well, they stink, you know, and gorilla
42:19anesthesia
42:21because most of the time when we
42:23anesthetize gorillas and chimps, we want
42:26to look at their hearts because they get
42:27heart disease fairly prevalently. That's
42:29the that's their main cause of death as
42:31they hit 30s, 40s, right? And what that
42:34means is we can't use some of the drugs
42:37that I really like because it affects
42:39the heart. So we have to use drugs which
42:41are not as useful. We use a lot of
42:43ketamine which makes him basically just,
42:46you know, hallucinate. So when you've
42:48got a silver bat laying on his back and
42:50he just starts waving his arms around,
42:52it becomes a little sweaty. You know,
42:55it's uh
42:57we had one Okay, you can go. We had one
42:59silverback called Sam who predated Wanto
43:02and I remember we had Dr. Gump was our
43:04cardiologist and she she was great but
43:06she she she was about 90 for about a
43:09hundred years. I don't know how she she
43:10just kept going and Sam just sat up on
43:14the table.
43:15It was amazing. And she just went make
43:18that gorilla go back to sleep.
43:19[laughter]
43:21But yeah, gorillas are a little funny.
43:23Like most animals have different warning
43:25signs over what they're going to do when
43:26they wake up. So a tiger and a lion, the
43:28first thing that comes back is the ear
43:30twitch. So you'll see if we do a lion
43:31and tiger, we'll mess around with the
43:32ear, we get a little twitch, we'll just
43:34give them a bit of extra drugs. Gorillas
43:36will tend to like just start to move the
43:38hand or they'll just stand up. They'll
43:40there's no in between. The heart rate
43:42stays the same, you know, they they
43:44their their respirator stays the same
43:46and then all of a sudden like, oh, now
43:47I'm awake like and now you can get off
43:49me. Um, which it opens the door to a
43:52problem if we have an open window
43:53clinic. somebody getting thrown against
43:56the glass.
43:57>> That's fantastic.
43:58>> I had a story then.
44:00>> I love it. Dr. Cushing, um, so you kind
44:02of touched on this a second ago, but
44:04what is the hardest animal to get blood
44:06draw on?
44:07>> Awake or asleep?
44:09>> Uh,
44:11both.
44:13>> Uh, I think small animals are difficult.
44:16You know, the tiny little birds, they're
44:17tiny little lizards. You know, they've
44:18not got any visible veins. You know, the
44:20lizards, you kind of stick them in the
44:21tail and hope for the best. Um, so in
44:25terms of size, it's the it's it's the
44:26smaller things. Um, I don't know. I
44:30guess the rest of them you just put the
44:32needle in the vein and carry on. I don't
44:33know. If I could just do giraffe and
44:36hooftock all day, I'd be over the moon.
44:38Yeah, because it's almost, you know, I I
44:42think I really enjoy zoomedson. It's in
44:45the realms of being a little unsafe, but
44:48still good fun. And it depends which
44:51clients we work with. Like I things do
44:53not is great for safety, but it takes
44:56away some of the excitement.
44:58Um, so like we do a tiger and everyone's
45:00like, "Okay, we're going to do this."
45:01You know, it's okay. It's okay. This
45:03one's fine. Um, but hooftock is still a
45:06little bit of a rodeo.
45:08Yeah. If I could just do giraffe, I
45:09would just do giraffe.
45:11>> And hopefully you're going to have a new
45:12one in the fall.
45:14>> Yeah. Yeah.
45:14>> Hopefully.
45:15>> That's what we're hoping for.
45:17you see a lot of difference between
45:19veterary practice in England and here.
45:23>> Yes.
45:25So for numerous reasons. So it it amazes
45:28me that um you guys like we need health
45:33insurance over here and yet nobody has
45:36pet insurance. Like everyone knows the
45:39cost of health care for people but when
45:40I present them with a vet bill what is
45:42this money? Whereas in England, I would
45:45guess 90% of people have pet insurance
45:48for their animals and nobody has health
45:50insurance,
45:53which to me is amazing.
45:55Surely they should go together. Um I
45:58think um what I tell the students a lot
46:02and I think this applies, you know,
46:04maybe that I'm not trying to be
46:05stereotypical about, you know, American
46:07vet students, but I think just because
46:09you can doesn't mean you should, right?
46:11So you can do a kidney transplant on a
46:14domestic cat that's 15 years old. But
46:16should you, you know, and I think I
46:18think vet medicine here has become that
46:22in not in every way and maybe I'm old
46:24and maybe I'm crochety, but just because
46:27you can do some of these procedures, I
46:29don't think it means you should do some
46:31of them, you know. And I see it more
46:32with dogs and cats. So, we have Friday
46:35rounds at the vet school um and people
46:38present cases and sometimes these cases
46:40are presented and this dog has been
46:42through five MRIs and 16 surgeries and
46:44this and this and this and the bill is,
46:47you know, $100,000 and the dog was 15 to
46:50start with. And I'm not being cruel.
46:52Like, if you have the money, you can
46:53spend it, but I just don't think
46:55sometimes you should. And I think in
46:57England it's much more like, well,
46:59this is the dog's 15. We should put it
47:01down, you know? I think that's the
47:03biggest difference I see which is
47:05amazing because they have health in they
47:07have pet insurance so they could they
47:08could get it paid for.
47:11>> Um so in terms for radiology purposes
47:14with the new clinic that's coming over
47:17here do you guys have you talked about
47:18getting CTM MR over here or going to
47:22come to the
47:23>> I think that I think the cost benefit of
47:25an MRI is not going to happen a CT
47:28machine. So, a couple of zoo clinics
47:30have got mobile CTS. They're like little
47:34circles on wheels and you can kind of
47:35push the animal through it. Um, that's a
47:38potential CT, but I think I think
47:40probably because the vets's 15 minutes
47:43away because we probably for, you know,
47:46we're we're happy to transport a lot of
47:48animals for those things. I I think
47:50probably the cost benefit of getting a
47:52CT scan is is not applicable right now.
47:56But I think when you're building the vet
47:58clinic, you shouldn't build it for
47:59today. You should build it for what
48:01happens in 30 years. Right? So we should
48:03look at the collection plan like are we
48:05are we going to go big into aquatics and
48:08get a load of sea lions and fish in
48:10which case the clinic is going to should
48:11look very different to what it would do
48:12for this collection we have right now.
48:14And the same for CT. So I think the the
48:17clinic should be built with the
48:18capability of this could be CT in the
48:20future would be my message on that one.
48:24Unless anybody's got their checkbook out
48:26tonight and would like to, you know, do
48:28that, we can absolutely do that at the
48:30volunteer meeting. We can do anything. I
48:32love it.
48:33>> So, I don't know if you had already said
48:35this, but based on what you've seen so
48:37far, is it cheaper to stay in the
48:40country and like do vet school or like
48:42go abroad and do vet school? Like, which
48:44one would be the cheaper option?
48:45>> It used to be cheaper to go over to
48:46Europe and do it, but I don't know if
48:48the prices have changed in the years
48:50that I've been out. We had probably four
48:52or five American students who came over
48:54to do it. I don't know if that was a
48:56cost thing or they, you know, they just
48:58wanted to do that for something
48:59different. But, you know, I got out of
49:01vet school that vet school cost me
49:03£3,000 a year, which is about £5,000 for
49:07five years.
49:09Yeah. And at the time, that's that's a
49:11lot cheaper than here. Yeah. I think as
49:14a foreign student, you pay more, but I
49:16don't think it's on the levels that you
49:18would pay it here at UT. It's cheaper if
49:20you're instate. So, if you can register
49:23instate, so if you apply to Tennessee
49:24and you're resident of Tennessee, it's
49:26cheaper than an outofstate seat.
49:29Um,
49:31but if you can find a relative who lives
49:34in a different state, you can apply to
49:35numerous places in state. I say you
49:38should explore that loophole.
49:40>> Life hacks with Dr. Cushing. I love it.
49:42Next question.
49:43>> Um, I have two questions. So the first
49:45one is what's the hardest animal you've
49:47ever worked on just because of like how
49:49it came in or like its condition or just
49:51generally the species. And the second
49:53one is like how much like annually do
49:56you like is like the general annual make
50:00of a zoo vet
50:02>> compensation.
50:03>> So the hardest the the hardest animals
50:05to work on are the ones that come and
50:07they're completely crashed, you know, I
50:09think and if they're small. So, let's
50:12say, you know, a budgie comes in and it
50:15and it's barely breathing. You know, if
50:17you hold that animal for 5 minutes, it's
50:19probably going to pass away. So, the
50:21chance of getting X-rays and getting
50:22blood on it, you know, you've really got
50:24to stage that stuff. And your chance to
50:26find out what's going wrong and then fix
50:28it becomes much more limited than if
50:31someone says, "Hey, the rhino is quiet.
50:33Like, we can get blood off a rhino and
50:34do whatever we want with it."
50:36So I think size and emergent
50:41presentation would be the first part of
50:43the question and what was the second
50:45question salary.
50:47Um so it's changed a lot. There is some
50:52literature out there looking at people's
50:53salaries. I'll say the average small
50:56animal vet as a new grad if you work
50:58dogs and cats probably makes 100 to 120.
51:02The average zoo. So, I got offered a job
51:04in Arkansas, which I in my interview I
51:08called it R Kansas Kansas, which really
51:09wasn't didn't go down [laughter] very
51:11well. And I got offered 55,000 having
51:15been out of vet school for 10 years,
51:19and 7 day week. And I said, "No thanks."
51:22But I think the zoo vet salary has
51:25increased a lot, but compared to small
51:28animals, it's much less. Yeah. I think
51:31zoo vets have to find their value to a
51:34zoo. So their value in small animals is
51:37you can save somebody's dog, right?
51:40That's a value and the people will pay
51:41for that. The value in a zoo is a little
51:43different because
51:47just because of the nature of the
51:48animals, right? you know, if we
51:52I don't want to sound crass, but like
51:54you can buy more animals.
51:56And I don't mean that in a horrible way,
51:59like but it's hard to replace somebody's
52:00dog when somebody's happy to pay for it.
52:02Um, so the cost of some of these zoo
52:05animals is actually less than some of
52:07the medical care. So economically, it
52:08becomes kind of like a a dairy farm,
52:11right? You know, you can look at it that
52:12way, too. And zoos are kind of in the
52:14middle because everyone's very bonded to
52:16their animals, which is great, and I
52:17like that. But economically, it's a
52:20different situation.
52:22>> Got it. Thank you, Dr. Kushing. We got
52:24another inerson question.
52:26>> You talked a lot about working with
52:28mammals and you also mentioned a few
52:30reptiles and a budgy, but have you ever
52:32worked with uh big birds like an ostrich
52:34or an emu?
52:36>> Yeah,
52:38I have an emu scar.
52:40Yeah.
52:42>> Was it from Pam or Karen?
52:44>> No, it was from a different place.
52:46>> Oh,
52:46>> yeah. Yeah, we've we were with ostrich
52:48and emu before. Um, so I my favorite
52:52ostrich story during this one. It was in
52:54a safari park and so this huge fields is
52:58ostriches and hooftock running around
53:00and we used a competition over you had
53:01to dart these animals and of course it
53:04takes them a few minutes to fall asleep
53:05and fall over. Um, it used to be a
53:08competition over who could drop them
53:09closest to the road. So we had to walk
53:11less.
53:14And of course, you hit the ostrich with
53:15a dart and it just runs.
53:18But um ostriches are funny creatures. So
53:20I remember once we had an ostrich and it
53:22was a little sedated, but it wasn't
53:23down. So they tend to stand for a while.
53:26And there's something there's something
53:27in those very tiny ostrich bird brains
53:29that makes them not work with the drugs
53:31that we have. And we don't actually know
53:32how to anestize ostrich ostrich very
53:34well. Um and so I remember getting this
53:38ostrich and we had a bag on its head so
53:40it was relatively calm. And I said,
53:41"Okay." I'm going to give it some
53:43ketamine. Someone said, "Well, how
53:44much?" Like, "I don't know. I'm going to
53:45give it a lot." So, I give it So, I give
53:48it 10,000 milligrams of ketamine, which
53:50is a whole bottle of ketamine, which if
53:52you think we use 3 ms for the average
53:54tiger, we gave this ostrich 10 mls of
53:56ketamine, and it just ran away.
53:59[laughter]
54:01It was amazing. And and it never came
54:03back. I was like, "Okay, well, this one
54:06this one's okay." Um, so yeah, that was
54:09that was pretty funny. But actually I
54:11did a a study looking at emuse because
54:13no one knows how to how to sedate
54:15ratites very safely. And so we ended up
54:17using thofinyl, which is one of the
54:19ultra potent opioids, which is one of
54:21the the horrible drugs where you get a
54:23drop on you and you're going to die. And
54:25we gave these emus 7 milligrams of
54:27thyophinyl, which to put it in
54:29perspective, to knock out a buffalo,
54:31we'd use two milligrams.
54:33And they would go to sleep mostly with
54:35seven milligrams. And so this project
54:38was interesting and then you know I was
54:39younger at the time and didn't really
54:41think about this and then someone said
54:42well how much does it cost for seven
54:44milligrams of thyophens? I was like I
54:46don't know well that's like $450. He
54:48goes well how much is a new emu like I
54:50don't know like 20 bucks like okay so
54:54let's do the math [laughter]
54:56and not use that drug combination.
54:58>> Okay. So for people that are interested
55:00in going into some sort of exotics
55:04medicine, um there are certainly private
55:07practices that will hire you. Uh there
55:11zoos. Um but a lot of those spots are
55:14very coveted. So isn't that something to
55:16consider if you're thinking about going
55:18that career and you spend all this time
55:21and effort and then you've got to think
55:23about will I be able to get a job when
55:25I'm out? And also another part of that
55:28question would be considering going
55:30overseas somewhere where job
55:33opportunities might be better than they
55:35would be in the United States.
55:37>> So I think it's so in the zumemed field
55:40I think there's there's a few branches
55:42to it right. So there's pure zoomedson.
55:45It's like working at zooville like
55:46that's that's zoo collections. There's
55:49wildlife people going to the wildlife
55:51trade. Um, there's aquatics. So, people
55:54do aquatics. And then there's zoo
55:55companion animals. They might work at UT
55:57doing rabbits and guinea pigs and, you
55:59know, things that walk through the door.
56:00And I think the last category is
56:03probably actually not bad to get a job
56:06in. And you can do that in private
56:08practice. You can drive your own boat.
56:10There's a lot of practices that are
56:11branching out and looking for people
56:12with an interest. So, like I said
56:14before, when you finish vet school, you
56:16can work with any species, but to get a
56:18a higherend job, they may ask to be
56:21board certified or to have the
56:23specialist exams, but there's no legal
56:25reason you couldn't say, "I'm going to
56:27teach myself rabbits. I'm going to help
56:29with that, and I'm going to start that
56:30in my practice and drive that drive that
56:32boat." So, if you're somebody who's okay
56:36with seeing the quote unquote
56:37non-traditional species, but you still
56:39want to be in a building and seeing
56:40pets, I think that's the way you do it.
56:43And people can earn good money doing
56:44that. You know, that's a that's a that's
56:47an area actually of growth more so in
56:50the US than overseas, I think. Um, so in
56:54England, rabbits are seen by dog and cat
56:57vets and exotics is birds and reptiles.
57:01Um, and the human animal bond here
57:05appears to be a lot stronger, like I was
57:06saying before, and people will pay a
57:08lot. Whereas in England, it's like,
57:09well, my goldfish, you know, I got it at
57:11the fair. I'm not going to do anything
57:13with this. Whereas here, people like,
57:15no, and this is stereotypical, but
57:17people are like, well, I've had this
57:18goldfish for five years, and I really
57:20want to give them a good go, so yeah, do
57:21the CT scan. Like, okay, we can do that.
57:23That's fine. And I've never done that in
57:26England, but I've done it here.
57:28>> Yeah,
57:29>> that's awesome. So, one question on Zoom
57:32to kind of take a step back from that to
57:33segue from that is anyone whether you're
57:36watching this live or you're watching
57:37the recording um that's interested in
57:40getting into the vet field. You talked
57:42extensively earlier just about schooling
57:44and the timeline with that. What are
57:46some recommendations for you um that you
57:48can share with us about, you know,
57:51volunteering and getting involved with a
57:53vet or Vette and getting experience, you
57:55know, here and around Knoxville? Um, for
57:57anyone who's interested in that, what
57:59would you recommend?
58:00>> I think varied experience. You know, I
58:03think you should apply with I've spent
58:05time with an Equin vet. I've spent time
58:07in a dog and cat clinic. I spent time at
58:08a zoo. I've seen all these practices and
58:10I really want to get into this that or
58:12the other. Um, I think varied experience
58:15is probably probably the number one
58:16thing that we look for.
58:19>> That's excellent. Thank you. Um, kind of
58:22back to kind of the crazy department of
58:24questions. Um, what is your craziest
58:28zoological
58:29foreign body story?
58:39I could tell a rude. Do you want a rude
58:40story?
58:43It's a little funny and it's not really
58:46a foreign body, but it's the wrong thing
58:48in the wrong place.
58:50So, oh no, I'm gonna have to tell this
58:52story. Um, okay. So, I was a new grad
58:56and this lady brought her Chihuahua in
58:58to see me and yeah, I know
59:03I was very attached to a Chihuahua,
59:05which was fine, you know, and so she
59:07wouldn't let it go, right? So, she's
59:09holding the Chihuahua and I'm listening
59:11to it, you know, so the scope on and I
59:13kind of reach around and, you know,
59:15sometimes when you you're there, you're
59:17not really you just kind of drift off
59:18and think about watching TV and I was
59:20like, "Oh, there's a there's a mass on
59:21this dog." And I was flicking it and I
59:23realized that when I had reached around
59:26my finger had like slipped inside her
59:29shirt
59:30and I was just, you know, in the wrong
59:34place. And as I realized, I paused and
59:37looked up and we locked eyes. I'm so
59:40sorry. You know, in terms of foreign
59:42body, like zoo animals, we had a cheetah
59:45recently that ate a rubber ball and we
59:47pulled out pieces of a rubber ball from
59:48his stomach, his intestines, and he did
59:50okay. And then of course there was
59:52Melody the langanger. I don't know if
59:53you guys remember Melody. Silver
59:56langers. They are the poster child of
59:58zoo animals for eating stupid things. Uh
1:00:01and she ate some rope. But actually just
1:00:03last week Petty came to me was like hey
1:00:04just so you know someone found the
1:00:06langers eating the nylon webbing
1:00:08somewhere in their exhibit. So we took
1:00:10out the nylon webbing. But um yeah
1:00:12langers they're the they're the idiots.
1:00:15>> Um you said did you like work with
1:00:17giraffes?
1:00:19>> Yeah. So before I came to UT, I worked
1:00:21at a place called Marwell, which is on
1:00:22the south coast in England, and we had a
1:00:24huge herd of giraffe, like 30 of them,
1:00:26and we knocked down a giraffe every
1:00:27month.
1:00:31>> So like did you do like the blood draws
1:00:33to like transfer to other giraffes that
1:00:35needed the blood?
1:00:36>> Oh, the Yeah. Yeah, we've taken it off.
1:00:38Yeah, we can collect blood and then we
1:00:40save it. It's like a giraffe blood bank,
1:00:43I guess. Um that we've done before.
1:00:46Yeah. But knocking out drop is the is
1:00:48the best day. That's the fun day.
1:00:52>> Kind of a silly question, but um you
1:00:54know we take for granted we always think
1:00:56of stuff like humans like we can throw
1:00:58up or this that and so you know horses
1:01:00can't throw up. Are there some kind of
1:01:02view uh zoo animals that can't vomit or
1:01:05you know things that we would do as
1:01:06humans. So just kind of random fun facts
1:01:09>> talk. [laughter]
1:01:13Horses can throw up. If you give them
1:01:14arsenic you can make them throw up.
1:01:16But um yeah, I think most of the equid
1:01:19species don't actually vomit. So, you
1:01:21know, your donkeys, zebras, and things
1:01:22like that. Um I can't think of any more
1:01:26examples off the top of my head, but
1:01:28vomiting will be the main one. Yeah. I
1:01:30mean, showing lameness is an interesting
1:01:32one. So, you know, giraffe don't show
1:01:34lameness very well. They they like
1:01:36they've got a weird gate when they walk
1:01:38anyway. Like, is that lame or is that
1:01:39just a giraffe? Penguins are the same.
1:01:42you know, they just kind of waddle
1:01:43around. Like I don't know if you are you
1:01:44lame or you just a waddler. So we
1:01:48actually use force plates a lot for
1:01:50penguins. So it measures the pressure of
1:01:52each foot. And so there's some work done
1:01:54on how much. So so we can tell like oh
1:01:57this penguin is like it's not evenly
1:01:58putting weight on the feet but it's hard
1:02:00to tell because they put stupid legs,
1:02:02you know, they wobble around. So but
1:02:04yeah, we can use those. Yeah.
1:02:08>> I love that. Thank you, Dr. Kosing. here
1:02:10at the zoo. Uh, aside from the regular
1:02:13preventative vet checks, um, how often
1:02:16do animals actually get sick as opposed
1:02:18to accidents? We understand if somebody
1:02:20breaks a leg, you know, has a toenail or
1:02:22something, but how often are animals
1:02:25here actually just kind of what we would
1:02:27call sick?
1:02:29>> Yeah, I think, you know, general
1:02:31malaise, you know, is usually, you know,
1:02:34I think I think most of our zoo animals,
1:02:37we we've got better preventative health.
1:02:39So they're vaccinated for the diseases
1:02:41that they usually get unless you're a
1:02:42commander with raies, right? We didn't
1:02:44think about that. Um so generally
1:02:47they're vaccinated for most of those
1:02:49quote unquote infectious diseases. Um we
1:02:51see parasites every now and again if you
1:02:53want to count that as a sickness, but
1:02:55it's relatively treatable. I think sick
1:02:59because the animals live probably way
1:03:02past their cell by date, you know, and I
1:03:04think that's what we see, right? So a
1:03:06lot of zoo medicine is geriatric
1:03:07medicine. So the average tiger in the
1:03:09wild will probably live if it gets to
1:03:11eight, it's doing really well, you know.
1:03:13And we've had tigers out of Tiger Haven
1:03:14that are 22, 23, 24. If you think that's
1:03:17three times their life expectancy that
1:03:20they should have, something's going to
1:03:22get them right. And when you get that
1:03:24age, cancer becomes a big one and they
1:03:26get sick because of the cancer causing
1:03:29problems. Um, we see some infectious
1:03:31disease like, you know, in the budgie
1:03:33flock, they'll get some bacterial
1:03:34overgrowth. Whether that's a true
1:03:36infectious disease that they're passing
1:03:38from bird to bird is not that's not
1:03:39really the question you're asking I
1:03:41think right you're asking about disease
1:03:43outbreaks are you tricks it used to be a
1:03:47lot of putting out fires but I think as
1:03:49we've got better with um nutrition of
1:03:52zoo animals you know if you think back
1:03:5430 40 years we used to grab these
1:03:56animals from the wild and oh this animal
1:03:58eats leaves we're just going to feed it
1:03:59leaves that's actually incorrect right
1:04:02you know giraffes should eat different
1:04:03species of trees different through the
1:04:05year and they get different nutrients.
1:04:06So, we've actually got a lot better of
1:04:08determine what those animals need. So,
1:04:09we've got better at managing them that
1:04:11way.
1:04:12>> Remember, um Tahhan is at Tiger Haven,
1:04:15correct? Um how how is he doing?
1:04:19>> He is living his life. He is the
1:04:21hungriest tiger they've got. I think
1:04:23he's constantly eating. He's doing okay.
1:04:25He has a nice exhibit that he wanders
1:04:27around. I go and see him. I think he's
1:04:30he's seems pretty relaxed there. And I
1:04:32think the difference with Tiger Haven is
1:04:33I don't know if anyone's been out there.
1:04:35I think I will say I think I see less
1:04:39stereotypical behaviors than the cats at
1:04:41Tiger Haven because they're left alone,
1:04:44right? They're just there. They haven't
1:04:46got a lot of people knocking on the
1:04:47window and shouting at them and
1:04:48screaming at them and, you know, running
1:04:50past them all day long. So, he's he's
1:04:52very relaxed. Whenever I go and see him,
1:04:54he comes up to say hello, which he
1:04:55didn't do here.
1:04:57Um, and he's doing okay. Do people like
1:05:01bring in animals that they've caught
1:05:02from the wild
1:05:03>> all the time?
1:05:04>> Is that like a good or a bad thing?
1:05:06>> Um, so it depends how the clinic set up.
1:05:09So again, it comes back to resources,
1:05:11right? If you're a small animal practice
1:05:13and someone brings you a fox that needs
1:05:16a broken leg surgery, as an owner of
1:05:19that business, are you going to pay for
1:05:20that fox to have its leg fixed and then
1:05:22rehab and then go back to the wild? So,
1:05:24I think it depends on the practice
1:05:26setup. Over at UT, we see wildlife and
1:05:29people will bring it in and we have a
1:05:31certain amount of money that we can use
1:05:33for wildlife and generally if it's an
1:05:35animal that could be releasable to the
1:05:37wild, we'll try and fix it. People get
1:05:40very attached. So, I remember this one
1:05:43person brought me a box and they said,
1:05:46"Oh, it's a it's a hedgehog." I said,
1:05:48"Okay." I looked in it. I said, "I don't
1:05:52think he's with us anymore."
1:05:54And she said, "He is. I saw him
1:05:56breathing and I looked and I poked him.
1:05:59His whole body's in rigger, you know,
1:06:01he's just wobbling around. I said, "No,
1:06:03I'm sorry. He's he's definitely passed
1:06:05away now." And she goes, "No, no, I saw
1:06:07him breathing." So, I picked him up by
1:06:08his back leg and this whole like st body
1:06:11came out and I knocked him on the list.
1:06:12He is dead.
1:06:16But pe So, people bring them and they
1:06:17get amazingly attached. They name him on
1:06:19the way here. It's It's incredible. The
1:06:21my other one was someone brought a box
1:06:23in and they said, "Oh, I I had a rabbit
1:06:25and I hit it with the the weed eater
1:06:26thing, you know, can you have a look at
1:06:28it?" And I said, "Yeah, I'll have a
1:06:29look." Yeah, I'm not got high hopes, but
1:06:31I'll have a look. And you know, and it's
1:06:33missing two back legs, right? Back legs
1:06:35are totally gone. And I said, "Oh, I'm
1:06:38sorry. You know, his legs are gone." And
1:06:40she said, "Okay."
1:06:42I said, "Well,
1:06:44we're going to let him go."
1:06:47Wait, why? I said, "What do you mean
1:06:49why? He's got no back legs." And she
1:06:50goes, "Well, you know, you can fix the
1:06:52wounds and he can come and live in my
1:06:53backyard and just crawl around." And I
1:06:55said, "No, like you're not, but he's
1:06:58called Fred. You know, I don't care what
1:07:00he's called." So, yes, people bring
1:07:02wildlife and they get very attached very
1:07:04quickly. What's your favorite animal to
1:07:06work on? Uh, and it's giraffe.
1:07:10>> Dr. Kushing loves giraffes. I love it.
1:07:12I've got a giraffe statue on my desk.
1:07:14That's great.
1:07:17So, the keyword or phrase for the July
1:07:19volunteer meeting is Dr. Cushing's
1:07:22favorite animal is a giraffe. He
1:07:25mentioned that several times in the
1:07:26meeting that he prefers to work with
1:07:28giraffes and hoofstock, which I love. As
1:07:30you guys know, I have a giraffe on my
1:07:32desk if you ever come by my desk. So, I
1:07:36totally agree with that. So, your
1:07:37keyword or phrase for the July volunteer
1:07:39meeting is Dr. Cushing's favorite animal
1:07:42is giraffes. email me after the meeting
1:07:46is over to get that two hours in meeting
1:07:48credit. So again, thank you for watching
1:07:51and getting that keyword or phrase for
1:07:53this month. It was super fun.
1:07:57>> We are so grateful to hear from Dr.
1:08:01Cushing today all of the amazing
1:08:03questions and just such wonderful,
1:08:06wonderful, wonderful insight on animal
1:08:08health and how important it is and just
1:08:11his amazing work here at UT.
1:08:14Thank you so much for being here, Dr.
1:08:16Kushing. We really appreciate you being
1:08:18here for our
1:08:20July volunteer meeting.

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