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Julian Bedel, founder, Fueguia, live interview on Persolaise Love At First Scent episode 310 — Transcript

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0:01Hello there one and all and welcome to
0:04episode 310 of Love at First Scent with
0:07me, Percise, coming to you live from
0:09YouTube. Whether you're watching live or
0:11you're watching the recording, you're
0:12very welcome. And we've got an interview
0:15for you today. It's been a while since
0:16we've done one of these, so it's it's
0:18great to be able to get the interview
0:20ball rolling again. I have a feeling
0:22that today's conversation is going to be
0:25quite quirky, quite eccentric, quite
0:27geeky because of the person that I've
0:29got in store for you. And obviously at
0:31this point I would normally do an an
0:33introduction, but I think what I'm going
0:34to do, I don't do this very often. I'm
0:36I'm basically going to read most of uh
0:39the uh the biography that has been sent
0:42to me because it's very very clear. It's
0:44very direct. It's very succinct and it
0:46tells you lots and lots of things but
0:48actually leaves you wanting uh to know a
0:50lot more. So the subject of today's
0:52interview, the person who's given up his
0:54time to join us today is Julian Bedell,
0:57the founder of Fuego 1833. So I'm going
1:00to read from the biog. Uh Julian Bedell
1:02is an Argentinianborn scent artist and
1:06the creative mind behind the pioneering
1:08fragrance company Fuego 1833. Originally
1:10from Patagonia, Bedell followed in his
1:13family's artistic footsteps as a trained
1:15musician and painter before founding
1:18Fuego in 2010. Seeking a new pallet for
1:22his work, he began exploring the world
1:24of scent. Building on his fascination
1:26with its ability to strike an emotional
1:29chord. like notes for a musician or
1:33pigments for a painter, he uses
1:35molecules from nature and science to
1:38create an alactory experience. And he
1:42continues to source rare natural
1:43botanicals for Fuego's library of
1:46fragrances, often used for the first
1:48time in perfumery. Already, there are so
1:51many questions that would stem from
1:52everything I've read so far. Bedell's
1:54training is purely empirical, ensuring
1:58that his approach to perfume creation is
2:00unrestricted by the industry's many
2:02traditions and protocols. And this gives
2:05Fuegoia a fresh and uninhibited edge and
2:08sets Bedell apart from his peers. So,
2:13welcome to the YouTube studio, Julian
2:16Bedell. Thank you very much for giving
2:17up the time today, Julian. How are you
2:19doing?
2:20Fantastic. In fact, it's it's the first
2:22time I heard my biography.
2:26It's It is what it is. But very nice. It
2:29was nice. Thank you.
2:31Don't tell me. Are you telling me you
2:32didn't write it?
2:33No, no, no. It's my team. I have a
2:35wonderful team. Otherwise, I wouldn't be
2:37able to do 1% of the things that I do.
2:40So,
2:41Well, that's fine. And I'm going to I'm
2:43going to go full screen on you straight
2:45away because Julian, I know that you are
2:47coming to us uh live today from Milan in
2:50Italy. But even though we're going to be
2:52spending a lot of time talking perfume,
2:54I have to ask you about that incredible
2:56array of guitars behind you. This is
2:58amazing.
3:00Yes, they are all vintage guitars. I I
3:04begin starting guitar building in when I
3:07was 12 years old and um and well music
3:12and guitars is is a thing that
3:15fascinates me. and the smell of them,
3:17the the aging of nitrous lacquer of
3:20different woods, uh sanding woods, the
3:24hide glues, all all the the universe
3:27around the instruments. It's a very
3:29scented and particular because you use
3:31exotic woods as as well. So,
3:34is the house is the house full of
3:36guitars or is it just this this space
3:37that we're seeing? Unfortunately for my
3:40girlfriend is full of guitars and and
3:42it's the good thing is she already knew
3:45me like this. So there wasn't a
3:48negotiation point. But I I just moved
3:50here like seven months ago. And yes, it
3:53was uh I tried to put them as as much as
3:56possible.
3:57So she knew she knew what she was
3:59signing up for. We've already got lots
4:01of people tuning in from everywhere.
4:03We've got Holly saying hello from
4:05Suffach. But all the way on the other
4:07side of the world, Katarina saying
4:09greetings from Arizona. Juan is watching
4:12in Riverdale, California.
4:15Uh, and so on and so forth. Um, I have a
4:18feeling that a lot of you will have some
4:20questions that you would like to ask
4:22Julian, but regular viewers will know. I
4:24always say hang on to your questions for
4:26the moment because if you post them now,
4:27I may lose them in the live chat and I
4:29will tell you when it's okay to go with
4:30your questions. And I'm always
4:32fascinated to know where it is that
4:33you're watching from as well. So if
4:35you're able to share that information of
4:36where you're watching from, please do
4:38so. Okay. Now, as I say from that
4:42biography, Julian, there is lots and
4:44lots that we could talk to you about,
4:46probably several hours worth of
4:47conversations. I've met you once before
4:50when you were launching your counter at
4:53Harrods a few years ago. And even on the
4:56basis of that short conversation that we
4:58had at Harrods, I remember thinking, "Oh
5:00my god, I need to talk to this guy a bit
5:02more because there are so many angles
5:04that we could explore, a kind of
5:05scientific angle, an artistic angle, but
5:08to try to keep things fairly simple and
5:11fairly focused. Take us back to the
5:15moment when you actually decided
5:18that you would that you would make a
5:19perfume brand. you know what what what
5:21what were the two or three factors that
5:23led to you thinking no actually this is
5:25what I'm going to do this is how I'm
5:26going to try to make my livelihood
5:29well in fact there was a couple of
5:32factors things happening in simultaneous
5:34and and it was involuntariously in a way
5:39um one one trigger was the that my
5:43father
5:45sent me I remember to read this paper on
5:49medicine that that was the the paper for
5:52the Nobel Prize of Medicine of the year
5:542004
5:56uh awarded to Linda Bach and Folly.
6:00Basically this paper which is very well
6:02written and and an education um sorry my
6:06English is not is not the best. So I I
6:09might come up with neologism.
6:12I think you got to be kidding. Your
6:13English is absolutely fine. Don't be
6:15silly.
6:16Okay.
6:18and uh and it was fantastic because it
6:21was about the the decoding of the genome
6:23of the alactory bulb. So basically it
6:26was the first time that science start to
6:29understanding what triggers what the the
6:33chemical signals after being impacted by
6:36the molecules by the volatile molecules
6:39and uh one aspect was all the
6:43transformations that hormonal
6:46transformations perception of time blood
6:49pulsation you know the physical
6:51transformation of of our body that was
6:54completely
6:55involuntariously again no and and the
6:58power that these molecules were
7:01triggering without knowing ourself that
7:04we're subject to this and uh so I said
7:08wow this is this is something that I can
7:12finally use to create something that
7:15maybe I'm not achieving with painting
7:18music or sculpting I I I perceive like a
7:22like a powerful palette of creation.
7:26The other thing was
7:27Sorry to interrupt, but until this
7:28point, you had not dabbled in making
7:31perfumes or anything like that at all or
7:33No, I I I actually never was wearing
7:36perfumes. So, I have a
7:38Okay.
7:39a a 4711 cologne that an uncle gave me
7:43for Christmas. That was the closest
7:45thing to to a perfume that that I have.
7:49Um
7:51and the other thing was that
7:53due to my family I was roaming and
7:56working a lot with in in my farms in the
7:59different properties that we have in
8:00Patagonia and in the Mesopotamia
8:04and in fact they're very wild places and
8:09uh the plants the the the
8:14type of plants uh they're completely
8:17different. No, of course you can imagine
8:19the Patagonia is more like kind of Lord
8:22of the Rings feeling and Mesopotamia is
8:25more
8:27is more Amazonic. No, and it's
8:30subtropical though uh but you have a
8:33completely different set of plants. And
8:35by working there it means that you get
8:38exposed to these sense. You get exposed
8:40by by trimming branches, by planting, by
8:44observing how the plants change, the
8:46leaves, the scent of the of the of the
8:49earth, the soil. Well, you can you you
8:52get the idea. So,
8:55that was thing was one thing that I said
8:59I I would love to recreate these scented
9:02landscapes
9:04because they are available to me. You
9:06you have to also imagine that Argentina
9:08is a place that lives in constant
9:10crisis, inflation, devaluation.
9:14It's very hard to develop things in in
9:17one way because the the environment is
9:20very complicated. Uh but on the other
9:23side it's it's extremely exciting to
9:25create new things and and Argentinians
9:27the the one that I know they're very
9:29entrepreneurial and they are all
9:31starting up crazy things because at the
9:33end of the day you don't have anything
9:34to lose in a way you're already screwed
9:38by by the government. So okay let's do
9:42this crazy idea. So it it's easy to to
9:46come up with maybe with crazy projects
9:49and try to pull them. No, because it's
9:51it's it's how how things sticks down
9:54there. So,
9:55so you've got this this paper by
9:57Linderbug that kind of gives you the
9:59emotional connection. You've got your
10:00Patagonian background. You've got the
10:02entrepreneurial spirit, but what you
10:05know, at what point do you then have
10:07these liquids in front of you and do you
10:10go, okay, I'm going to mix them together
10:11now?
10:13Well, the the intention was to create I
10:17I wasn't thinking on perfume. I was
10:19thinking on on my activity that was art
10:23no and seeing how if I start working
10:26with sense instead of pigments uh I
10:29could be I I could find a different
10:32language that could be more suitable for
10:34me. So because as as an artist when I
10:36see another artist and that I love or or
10:39or
10:41admire
10:43uh it's a very powerful thing and and
10:47you know it's very difficult to to
10:48create a powerful impact by painting you
10:51you have to be really good no and and I
10:55wasn't of course feeling that I was
10:56achieving that. So I was looking for
10:58something that okay maybe with this I
11:00can get away with more. So the idea in
11:04in this context of of crisis, I found a
11:08a beautiful small
11:10shoe box size shop in front of a
11:13five-star hotel in Buenocidis that was
11:16almost for free, you know. And I said,
11:18why I don't create a fake perfumery,
11:22whatever that means in in my mind. And
11:24it's going to be my my installation. And
11:27I'm going to put I started with 15 of
11:30these scents in perfume bottles, but my
11:33idea was to recreate landscape. So I
11:35consider them like scented for space. I
11:38I wasn't thinking on them on on
11:40something that you applied on the skin.
11:42Mhm.
11:42And uh and I create this uh glass flask
11:46because as an installation
11:49I didn't thought about
11:51sales people or a sales staff in a
11:54perfume. It it was more something that
11:56should be autonomous that you enter in
11:58this dark place, you have the the 15
12:01bottles in a central table, you pick up
12:04the the glass flask and you have the
12:07impact of these medicinal plants that I
12:09was starting to study because the other
12:13thing was based on the on the paper. I
12:16said okay I need to find plants that
12:19they are already delivering this and
12:22South America like Asia we have a very
12:25strong uh traditional medicine culture
12:29so for us it's normal to to take coca
12:34teas mates all kind of herbs and and
12:38roots and barks
12:41so and and usually these plants they
12:43they all have their own particular
12:46characteristic scent. No. So, so I put
12:49my focus on on finding the medicinal
12:51plants that they are going to also be
12:54the one thing that I was hoping when you
12:56smell this, you could like it or not,
13:00but you are going to be experiencing the
13:03science behind these principles.
13:06I'm also intrigued. You know, you you
13:07just kind of casually said 15 perfumes.
13:12Didn't it take you ages to make 15
13:14perfumes or did you really have a very
13:16very freespirited approach to it? Almost
13:18like just kind of going a little bit
13:19crazy and just mixing things up.
13:23You as as a my father is a painter,
13:27sculptor. My brother also my best
13:29friends they are all sons of other
13:32artist. So my what I knew and and my
13:35education was to go to a workshop and
13:39work every day to get to know my raw
13:42materials. No. So
13:43okay.
13:44Um
13:45for for me as an education I I have the
13:48empirical thing of working every day
13:51even if you are creating crap you have
13:53to go and work on your raw materials and
13:55get to know them. So this kind of
13:58gymnastics of of empirical observation
14:01of of a pigment, a piece of wood, how it
14:05react, how it change, what if if I mix
14:07this and I add this and and observing
14:10the patterns. No, I think that this was
14:12very useful when I suddenly changed the
14:16palette and said, "Okay, these are the
14:17ingredients and the same principles
14:21applied." No, the same kind of
14:23observation, mixing, uh, testing. Um, so
14:29for for me, I I was kind of maybe too
14:32optimistic or but I said, okay, yes, if
14:36who cares if if it's again the the
14:38object wasn't I wasn't having perfume as
14:41as as the be as the European school
14:45concept of what is perfume. I I was uh
14:50thinking on on powerful scented accords
14:54that the landscape was kind of guiding.
14:57No, if you go to the Patagonia, you see
15:00a glacier and you see all these
15:01califhates flowers around the the eyes
15:04but also the cyclan type of of flowers
15:06that they are very alidic transparent.
15:10You you have the the core there in front
15:12of your face or or in the Mesopotamia
15:15that is more watery green. You have this
15:18Victoria Coranas
15:20almost kind of
15:21How did you How did you get How did you
15:23get your materials? Was it difficult
15:24getting materials?
15:26No, they were all there. The it it was
15:29in my farms there. They were there
15:31available or in my neighbor farms or or
15:35I have to go
15:37ready extracted.
15:39No, no, no, no, no, no. Of course not.
15:41So that's what I'm saying. So So you had
15:43to so you had to do the extraction as
15:45well.
15:46Of course. Yes.
15:47Well, that that must that must have been
15:49a job.
15:51Well, you know, if you go and buy uh a
15:54distillator, even if it's small, large,
15:57I started with I think that was a 15 lit
15:59distillator.
16:01The manufacturer uh he explained me
16:04everything. No. So you you learn by by
16:07you say okay if you want me to do
16:10business with you you will need to help
16:11me to use this machine and give me some
16:13tricks of what your customers how your
16:15customers are using it and and that kind
16:18of approach I I I kept using it even now
16:21that we are with with a lot of super
16:23critical uh machines and and our our
16:28garage of equipment is is really
16:30impressive uh in this and for me you
16:32know I'm I'm I love my equipment ments
16:35and we've been modifying a lot of superc
16:38critical equipments to my specific uh
16:42type of materials that we are
16:43instructing or approach on on this. So
16:47you you get an ecosystem of of people of
16:50technical people and and scientific that
16:52they are willing to help you and even
16:56when you buy uh jasmine no our suppliers
16:59of of jasmine in India we have three
17:02different suppliers
17:04um
17:06you develop a relationship that is okay
17:09he's selling me some back absol absolute
17:13some backbach and grand Florida and
17:15maybe said hey I'm having some kilos of
17:18of a variation of flexile orulatum that
17:21maybe I'm not producing it that much but
17:24maybe you like it. Yes. Ba boom blah
17:26blah. Then I saying look I'm I'm getting
17:29this equipment. Can you send me the
17:31concrete? Can we use the concrete
17:33without exam? Can we use a different
17:35solvent? Yes, I've been doing experiment
17:37with this type of solvent. So you you
17:41get um you get the the the recipe in a
17:46way by by the supplier not not only of
17:48the machine but then of the ingredient
17:50no to say
17:52I I I love as well how you're you're
17:54you're making it sound quite simple you
17:56know it's just like oh I bought a
17:57distilling machine and then I just
17:58started distilling the thing can you
18:00remember can you remember what was the
18:02first
18:04um you know plant or herb or whatever it
18:07was from your local area that you
18:09actually what was it? Tell us about that
18:11one.
18:11See, it was accasia cabin that we call
18:14it espino as as any accasha in the war
18:17is an invasive invasive plant. So they
18:20grow very fast but they have like it's
18:22like a mimosa basically because mimosa
18:27is a and you get this yellow fluffy
18:32flower. Then uh alga
18:35pro the proopi general of the algaro
18:40which is a hardwood and um it's like a
18:44carob
18:45uh carob I don't know how do you say it
18:48in English
18:50same I think it's the same and do you
18:52still do you still use these ones that
18:53you originally
18:55no
18:58yes
18:59no because actually it's it's almost
19:03identical as mimosa and and the
19:06distillation of the mimosa, the
19:08qualities of mimosa that I get from
19:10India is better than the ones that I do
19:12myself. So I decided to stick with the
19:15Indian mimosa,
19:17but in this particular example,
19:20so I mean this this does sound like an
19:22extraordinary story and you know we we
19:24we necessarily have to kind of cut it
19:26short because we could talk about it for
19:29you. No, I'm just saying.
19:32So, somehow we went from this presumably
19:35from this little shop that you say you
19:37got nearly for free opposite a hotel to
19:40now having boutiques
19:43all over the world literally, you know,
19:44and in all corners of the world. Um,
19:47obviously the the actual scents
19:49themselves struck a chord with with
19:52people. Um, but what other factor do you
19:55think is is a reason for why the brand
19:58has grown really pretty quickly? I mean,
20:00you it was only founded about 12 years
20:02ago and yet you have this global
20:04presence now.
20:05What do you put that success down to?
20:08Uh, luck basically 99.9% of luck. Good
20:13luck. That unfortunately is that's my my
20:17answer. But uh I think that there's a a
20:21lot of learnings and and even myself I
20:24try to help u many people by by
20:28incentivating them to do their own
20:30projects and business especially in the
20:32perfume area because you know at the end
20:35of the day there there's a lot of people
20:37that that feel that they cannot create
20:39their own perfume brand or company or
20:42extraction because they see a lot of red
20:44tape or barriers which of course there
20:46are and and It's a lot of work, but but
20:50important things are kind of easy to get
20:52on your own if you just, you know,
20:54believe in it and do it and work and and
20:57and have your concept. So, so yes,
21:00there's a lot of of of work behind. But
21:04I think that that the approach on on uh
21:08on natural plants is what because and
21:12we're very we don't explain that much
21:16our sense to our customer. We don't sell
21:19the product saying this is this this and
21:22that and we do it like this like that.
21:24If you go to our website of course we
21:26have a 100 perfumes and we need to
21:28differentiate perfume 29 from perfume
21:3189. So we need to provide something but
21:36at the end is what the the scent is
21:38delivering and creating in you know no
21:40in in your brain. I mean the impact that
21:43is creating because all my formulas are
21:46extremely complex. I I believe in the in
21:49the complexity uh because that
21:52complexity is delivering during the the
21:55life of the scent in your skin. So it's
21:57playing that complexity also helps to
22:01create a synergy
22:04with different groups of molecules that
22:06they help each other with the same flash
22:08point and the same boiling point and the
22:11same molecular weight. They kind of
22:13interact together in a different way.
22:15The complexity also helps in the
22:17evolution of the scent because we we are
22:19selling we started our company selling
22:22vintage scents. So we sell the
22:24contemporary batch and the vintage batch
22:26simultaneously. The vintage batch being
22:295 years old. So a customer can go into
22:33our gallery and smell the vintage
22:35version or the new version and choose.
22:37Vintage cost twice of course. So sorry
22:39if you like that. But luckily a lot of
22:42people still said okay you know let's
22:45give me the the new one. uh bad so
22:50it is I I'm a 100% believer that uh the
22:55people also returning returning for a
22:58different scent in a different moment of
23:00the year returning for the same scent
23:02returning in order to to layer or
23:05combine their scent it's all persons
23:07that they being uh
23:11captivated by the ingredients that they
23:13are in the scent so I don't know when I
23:16spoke with with fellow perfumeist which
23:19by the way I'm not a perfumeist but well
23:21I I'm part of this business.
23:25Well I was I was going to ask you
23:27actually do you know because you know
23:28your biography calls you a scent artist
23:32say whatever you can call it say
23:34do you do you not do you not call
23:36yourself a perfumer?
23:38No no no not at all. A perfumer is, you
23:42know, the challenge that these guys have
23:43uh by working on a brief, working with
23:46limited budget, creating magic, creating
23:49something beautiful uh with the
23:52resources that they have, they are
23:53completely genius and they have to to
23:55have a genuine uh knowledge also the
23:59applications of this formula in a
24:02washing powder, in a deodorant, in a
24:05toilet. So I think that is a completely
24:08different problem and and that they
24:11address and that they deliver. My my
24:14interest is on the impact that that
24:17nature that plants has on our brain and
24:20and in our mood and our spirits and uh
24:24and how we can use this in order to feel
24:27better. In order to open something that
24:30by smelling these plants you open
24:32something in your in your mind in your
24:34brain something atavic that connects you
24:37that makes you feel better that connect
24:39you with something of your past or
24:41something for your future that you want
24:43to do you know is this the kind of of
24:46offering that that we are giving in our
24:51galleries it's not that I'm I I'm
24:54thinking more like I said initially the
24:56the western school of perfume. No, it's
24:59it's more how we
25:01we use perfume to mediate with the
25:04divine as as it happened in Asia, in the
25:06Middle East and in South America. We we
25:09use sense in a in a mystical way because
25:12they help us to connect with with
25:14something that is not understandable by
25:16us.
25:18Agreed. And I'm also intrigued by the
25:20name that you chose and I wonder if you
25:22could tell people a little bit about the
25:26you know where where that name Fuego
25:27comes from and the story of a particular
25:30historical figure that is that is
25:32extremely interesting.
25:34Um yes well in my family I have my
25:40antipasalo
25:41uh Louis Marie Bedel that was an
25:44entomologist in the 800
25:47and um
25:50we have this this myth of these
25:53characters you know that that you learn
25:55or you're interested when you're a kid
25:58and and of course the 1800 was was an
26:01era of exploration of a lot of uh you
26:04know you have Humboldt, you have Darwin
26:06and Bonland
26:08you know all these guys that they were
26:11not for the love of plants but for the
26:13love of of commerce and economy no the
26:16the the ethnobotanical part all these
26:18natural plants they were they have
26:20behind tobacco cacao cowo you know
26:23economical resources that made empires
26:26all the drugs as well you know opium you
26:29know so
26:32there was this I I always love the
26:34romantical part of of exploration in
26:36South America, in Asia, whatever. But
26:38there was also the militar part and and
26:42the the conquer and and
26:46genocide and all horrible parts that
26:49come by by colonization
26:52and Argentina it has been the case of
26:55America all the planet has been the case
26:57by European and North American
26:59domination. It's not that I want to I'm
27:02against that. It's just facts history,
27:04you know. So we we we got this story uh
27:08the precolombian but then later later it
27:11keep keep going. Even now it keep going.
27:13I know if you see what's going on in the
27:15Amazon with uh with the native
27:19populations almost having a green light
27:23the the loggers the agricultural that
27:26they do massive soy ganaderia
27:30mineria minerals.
27:34So anyway, it keep going this but so
27:37when I decided to create this fake
27:39perfumemerry I I came up with with the
27:43story of Fua Basket that was a a native
27:46from the very southern tip of of Tar
27:49Fuego that was kidnapped by by Fitz Roy
27:54uh kidnapping in the first trip he he he
27:57was doing the the ctographia the map of
28:00the of the South American coast
28:03They have this
28:05incursion. Uh the natives burned the
28:08vessels and well there was these kids
28:11there, three kids. They took them with
28:14with him to back to London. Chu died. I
28:17think that foyer was raped. It it was a
28:20horrible story. The typical story of
28:22exposing the native in England then you
28:25know circus whatever. But she returned
28:28on the second trip. Fitzroy returned
28:31Fueia back to Patagonia and in this trip
28:34comes along Charles Darwin and it's
28:37Darwin that starts in the same boat you
28:40know he he writes in diary of Patagonia
28:42about this native fuea basket
28:46and anyway it was kind of a mix of of
28:49the two sides of the story and and
28:52putting you know the the the memory of
28:55Fua more in in in
28:58there no putting homage paying homage to
29:01the memory of Fua because Fuya also when
29:03she returned the natives were uh
29:06nonrecognizing her he they perceive her
29:09as contaminated or not belonging to them
29:11any long so she had a horrible end of
29:14life alone roaming whatever
29:18so that was a bit
29:22it's it's fascinating because as you say
29:24that story has got so many sad elements
29:27to it and unfortunate elements to it,
29:29but it also sums up so much I think that
29:31that is that is important to
29:32acknowledge. If we're not careful, we're
29:34not going to be able to do any smelling.
29:36So, I think as we've kind of already
29:38gone down that route, I've got here a
29:41tiny little vial actually of of of
29:43Darwin, a perfume that you've made
29:45called Darwin. So, why don't you tell us
29:47a little bit about that while I smell a
29:49tiny bit of it here on skin? How did
29:51this one
29:53come about? Darwin is a very simple cord
29:56of betiver cedar wood
30:00some citric grapefruit. Um
30:04I I started with uh there's a lot of of
30:07betar in South America in Paraguay,
30:09Brazil, northern Argentina because uh we
30:13use it to to contain grounds. No, in
30:16agricultural vetiviver it's it's amazing
30:19as as a as a soil protector because all
30:22this root system and it also purifies
30:25from agrochemicals, heavy metals. It's
30:28it's a a fantastical plant. So this was
30:32was one of of the first perfumes as well
30:36that that came from distilling the the
30:38vetiviver and also the different cedar
30:41woods that we have in
30:44they are that they are not junior perus
30:46oriented but they are more ceda
30:49so from the general ceda noted.
30:54So why particularly did this one have to
30:56be why why did it have to be called
30:58Darwin? Was there is there a sort of
31:00reason why Darwin said
31:02well one story was um the vessel of of
31:07also there's one that's called beagle
31:08that is where
31:11that was more the things that Darwin was
31:14carrying on with him you know all these
31:17bones plants
31:20the smell already in the in the in the
31:22boat the oak wood bigger has a lot of
31:24oak wood the gun powders man the
31:27sulfurous notes
31:28Um,
31:31I I don't know this these were how
31:33strange the I wasn't part of the
31:35selection of this test of these samples.
31:38I wouldn't send you Darwin and and be by
31:40the way, but
31:43it was it was meant to be. It was meant
31:45to be.
31:45It was meant to be. Well, but these are
31:49my first perfumes is uh
31:52Okay.
31:53See,
31:53well then that's that's a good reason to
31:55send them then. Would you say that your
31:56style has changed a lot over the years?
31:59Oh yes. Yes. Uh
32:01in what way? Like you know if if you
32:03were if you were going to make a kind of
32:05citrusy vetiviver now would it be quite
32:08different from Darwin?
32:10Yes. No doubt. In in fact what as soon
32:13as I found um suppose of course we all
32:16love I I assume betrol and and the
32:19purifications of betiver that you you
32:21keep polishing and polishing the the
32:24ingredient and you get something that
32:26gets closer to to the grapefruit aspect
32:29and the magic of the vet kmol all these
32:34these molecules that are inner to to the
32:37plant and they have a unique profile
32:39like pachuli you know they
32:41irreproductible or or you cannot find
32:43them in other roots. No, if you if you
32:47go into the cri parts or or the
32:49different kind kind of other roots, uh
32:52you're going to get other ingredients,
32:54but it's unique. So maybe I I always try
32:58to update our link our batches with with
33:02my new discoveries not to say hey I have
33:05a a new veter which is cleaner or has
33:09this beautiful profile and I substitute
33:12it in in the original formula and then I
33:15get complaints by our customers saying
33:17it's not the same you're changing the
33:19form blah blah blah blah blah. So I said
33:21you know what okay you keep the old
33:23Darwin I will create a new perfume using
33:25my new vet and then I create for example
33:28Neosi which is the one that I wear that
33:31I love it it's completely different from
33:34from Darwin of course it's it's more on
33:37the on the reinos uh part of chiforas
33:41all the different type of chifas and
33:43frankincense but but well the example
33:46was with the vetiviver it came up so uh
33:50Uh sometimes you want to apply the new
33:52ingredient into an old formula and and
33:55not necessarily new is best it. So
33:59now now I kept this this antique
34:04or or beginners formula that they are
34:07very raw as as they are. No they are raw
34:11as they are and
34:13which which and they are what they are a
34:15reason to try them. Now, I should say at
34:18the half hour mark that if you've just
34:19tuned in, you're watching episode 310 of
34:21Love at First Scent. And we're doing a
34:23live interview with Julian Bedell, the
34:25founder and the scent artist at the
34:27brand Fuego 1833.
34:30And already a few questions have come
34:32through, but if you'd like me to sort of
34:33put some questions to Julian from
34:35yourselves, then please feel free to
34:37fire them at me. Now, one question that
34:40I think I I will take now and then I can
34:43also maybe tie it in with something we
34:45were talking about before we started.
34:47So, Ashvak who's a regular viewer
34:49saying, "Hello, Julian. Nice to see you
34:50here with Pcels. Could you please tell
34:52us about Patagonian oud in Malon?" I'm
34:56guessing that is. And we were we were
34:59talking just before we started about the
35:00fact that you have created some ouds.
35:04And one of the perfumes that I've got
35:07here is also one called Muscara
35:09Aquilaria which is a kind of combination
35:12of So let's talk for a few minutes about
35:14one of our favorite subjects ud is it is
35:17that correct you have made you have made
35:19some ouds that don't exist anywhere else
35:22is that tell us about that then
35:25uh well
35:28of course this new perfume that we
35:30launched is called Muskarakilia it's
35:33based on Akilaria species wood that we
35:37use uh the wood from distillators that
35:41we've been building relationship during
35:43the years in Asam, in Prain, in Burma,
35:48in Laos, Cambodia.
35:50uh as there's a lot of of contamination
35:56in in these small distillators because
35:59of the type of solvents that they use,
36:00the type of the plastics. There's always
36:03full of contaminated with theil talate
36:05very toxic things. Not because they are
36:08catching the the wood, but because the
36:10way of extracting is is not good. So
36:13unfortunately
36:14you have to really get into it in order
36:17to try to work with the family saying uh
36:21please try not to put this pet bottle
36:25when you do this or that. So what I mean
36:29is you have to develop this relationship
36:31in order to get the quality that that we
36:33were expecting. Then the same part on
36:36sustainability because
36:39most of these woods they of course ut is
36:43a very good business. So a lot of people
36:45start doing plantation wood but
36:46plantation wood to have something
36:49smellable it takes at least seven years
36:52from the infection onwards. No
36:55to get something that that is useful
36:59uh and and not uh tease. Yeah. So,
37:04so there's the only way is using white
37:06wood that that this is the problem that
37:09we find with many other ingredients that
37:11is okay who is controlling this is a
37:15community working in northern Argentina,
37:18northern Laos, uh that they are doing
37:21this as as a way of living that they are
37:24doing it in a sustainable way that they
37:26are cutting part of the trees because
37:28they go tree by tree knocking
37:32understanding that there's a part there,
37:34a pocket of resin or it trees fall or
37:38once in a while they cut one tree
37:40because it's part of of how they
37:43maintain their own forest. No. Uh alive.
37:47So I'm okay with that.
37:49Uh and Muskarakilaria is
37:54a blend of of these different woods that
37:57we are collecting.
38:00It's a fantastic thing. It's wood. It's
38:03a sam. It's you get the the heavy woods
38:06and and the more fruity aspect of
38:08certain woods more malaces, Cambodian
38:11kind. On another page is what we call
38:17our own woods that they are not
38:20achilaria. They come from three
38:22different species.
38:24One that grows in the Choco region of
38:26Argentina, Paraguay, and Brazil. the
38:29other one that grows in the Andes region
38:31of Argentina and Peru and the other one
38:34that is Patagonian is 100% southern
38:37Patagonia this side of the mountains
38:40and
38:42the whole idea was
38:45what is wood and how wood is produced by
38:48the plant and and this is a defense
38:51mechanism of the tree. Uh, akilaria
38:55trees are very soft uh, light woods and
38:59they are very prone to to convert their
39:02wood into this resin to contain this
39:04resin. Hard woods, they don't do this.
39:07They are they're already filled with
39:10with very dense oils and basically this
39:14density of oils is what make them
39:16resisted resistant to to the attack of
39:20bacterias. So I start
39:23kind of connecting certain patterns of
39:25why this this was happening in in in
39:28ailaria trees and not in other ones. So
39:31softness of wood was one pattern. Of
39:33course, temperature, the high humidity,
39:37uh heat, uh it it's a factor because
39:40bacteria grows is very prosper.
39:44Uh but not only because then we realized
39:46that in Patagonia with the Patagonian
39:49wood we we we didn't use that much of
39:53humidity.
39:55So
39:57the in during my distillation
40:00observations let's call them one aspect
40:03that I started to work initially when
40:05when I started distilling was in
40:07fermentation the raw material before
40:10distilling it. So, and this this was a
40:14genuine thing of observing my
40:17environment because when when I smell
40:19something that was smelly nice, imagine
40:22some some leaves that fall into the
40:25forest and you collect them and and you
40:27you know that they are completely
40:28fermented by by the forest. No. Um
40:33and if you break the leaf, it doesn't
40:35have any smell. It has like a C3 hexanal
40:38smell.
40:40So it's it was the hunting of microbios
40:44uh with with very rudimentary technique
40:46like putting rice a casserole with rice
40:50around the plant and you start
40:52collecting all these layer of different
40:55enzymes. Sometimes you get black spots
40:58which are the bad guys. And and what I
41:01start doing was spraying the plants with
41:06these enzymes and leave and let them see
41:09what happened.
41:11And
41:13distillations with this process, they
41:15were richer. They were yielding more
41:19aromatics. uh they were having a deeper
41:21uh sensorial profile than distillation
41:25of the plant without the fermentation.
41:28So
41:31this experiment started from day one
41:33about fermenting and without even
41:35knowing that there was something called
41:37wood and and then learning about wood
41:40and da da.
41:42So basically it was um
41:47a combination of observations in
41:49different ways and and the capability
41:51that I have at that time of of that we
41:53are distilling we're collecting wood
41:55fermenting and distilling that's what we
41:57do and using them in formulas. So I said
42:00why again with with our own
42:03chromatographies uh that we have
42:06different settings and different
42:07chromatographies that they are I love
42:09them. I I spend a lot of time with them
42:12because chromatography there you asked
42:14me before about how I create perfume or
42:17what evolves chromatography after the
42:20beginners lack of saying ah okay I'm
42:23going to create this cord of this glaze
42:25or whatever
42:27I got this book of Kaiser which is this
42:30incredible Swiss um
42:33uh
42:35doctor whatever from Jodan
42:38uh that he did this research on plants
42:41and he published the chromatography
42:44of plants, wine, cedars, whatever kind
42:48of plan. There are two books. I have
42:50them always maybe near my bed because I
42:53I come back to them all the time. And
42:56Roman Kaiser um thank you Roman if if
43:01you're watching if you're still alive.
43:04And basically there it's is the formula
43:07is is the formula of nature of to create
43:11the oil of pig or the the fitya so wood
43:17or wood or whatever. So again it was
43:20patterns you start seeing that nature
43:22use all these building blocks to create
43:25herbs to create woods but then it use
43:28traces to ferentiate them. And in part
43:31of these traces they use very unique
43:34things that you don't find in other
43:35plants. So I said okay I need to keep
43:38learning because one thing is to distill
43:40something put them under my nose and
43:42said I like it I don't like it I find it
43:44dirty I can use it I cannot use it and
43:46another thing is why I like this or why
43:49it's dirty and that is the only way of
43:51doing it is with a chromatography and
43:54this allows me to to create recipes that
43:59they were start to getting closer to
44:01what I was expecting from that plant
44:04from the potential of extraction. I say,
44:07"Okay,
44:09um I of course start learning about
44:12components, you know, organic chemistry
44:14and and and sespons and ketons and and
44:17and why or you find them in in in
44:20flowers or plants or white you find them
44:22in trees or in resin blah blah blah
44:24blah." So with UD, you know, it was all
44:29unknown,
44:30all building blocks that were completely
44:33unknown. And u of course you you find
44:37bul
44:39things that you find in bullesto
44:42things you you find in Valerana in Criol
44:46you find certain components but the
44:48heart the magic of what creates this
44:51fascination in Japan Middle East
44:54everywhere
44:55as a as a mystical product. No, because
44:58in this wood was used specifically as as
45:01a
45:02as a as a product that that connect us
45:05with divinities that that help us pray
45:08or that put us in a state of mind of of
45:12of a mystical state of mind. Let's let's
45:14call it and and they were all unknown
45:17molecules. So I started to say okay what
45:20this I start finding some molecules that
45:23they I found in my own ingredients and
45:25and it was observation and then I said
45:28one day okay let's try to imitate
45:31replicate or try to find a tree that
45:34could create this scented profile and
45:37did you I'm gonna I'm gonna have to rush
45:39you with this
45:41they are for sale in our shop they are
45:44we launched them five months ago
45:47And how does it smell? What does
45:49Macedonian oud smell like?
45:51Well, that I I'm biased because they
45:55smell like oud. That's why I I have the
45:57the nerve to call them wood and not call
46:00them with a different name because
46:04the work of the
46:07to to not become too nerd, but the
46:11resting compounds
46:12right. Yeah. the the resin compounds are
46:15they're very much aligned and again if
46:18you overlap a if you do a one
46:20chromatography of of our roots you
46:22you're welcome any chromatography fan to
46:25go and and pick up a sample and run the
46:28chromatography and you run a
46:29chromatography of a sam and you're going
46:32to find the usual suspect and a very
46:34similar uh ret components with the same
46:37retention time and when you put it in
46:40your nose uh it smell like
46:43But one thing is that
46:46in Milano we have a lot of Middle
46:48Eastern uh tourism and uh okay
46:52they're very knowledgeable in in wood
46:55but they are more into udasam into very
46:58very very
47:01uh before
47:04formulating with urasam I was more in a
47:07safe more western let's call it Japanese
47:10friendly wood that they were more
47:12friendly,
47:14more clean, not as an animatic and
47:18and it's been uh all these months that I
47:23just put the perfumes there and tell
47:26them of course a little bit the story
47:28but see if people one buys them you know
47:31to say okay you know what I like them
47:33but I'm not willing to pay for it or I
47:36don't like them and of course I won't
47:37pay for it and and also we are selling
47:42Udasam, Uturma, Utrachin, UT jungle, UT
47:45Cambodia. So we're now having a lot of
47:48of different real from Akilaria trees
47:51and our own wood creation. And in this
47:56um offering let's call it uh we we got a
48:00lot of um feedback from our customers
48:03and and that's that's the beauty of
48:05having our own galleries that that we
48:07talk with our customer. We see what
48:09things are ticking which not
48:12what happen if this we put in Japan in
48:14Argentina New York in Italy.
48:16And what feedback are they giving you
48:17about the Patagonian one? Well, they
48:22they love Andes and Patagonia. Choco is
48:25is very dark. Uh Andes and Patagonia.
48:29And is extremely fruity. So they they
48:31they found it as as a very fruity wood.
48:35And um and basically they are not
48:38selling well. They're not.
48:41No.
48:43But they are
48:46they are helping I believe to sell the
48:48other roots. the real woods,
48:51but they they help they are starting to
48:54in these months they are starting to to
48:56use them as as layering and as a
48:59discovering thing. Uh we've been of
49:04course some they've been selling but
49:06it's an expensive product. So in the
49:08position of saying okay you can buy our
49:11bests seller is Muskarakilio. So we are
49:14also not selling well if if you want to
49:17add transparency on on our sales with
49:21wood market people gravitates to our
49:24blend of different woods and not to the
49:27single origin. So it's not about
49:30Patagonian and only it's about udas
49:34maybe could could fall in the same
49:36problematic like customers like this
49:39combination of different dudes. So at
49:42the end of the day for
49:43Go on. Yeah. Go on.
49:45No, no. For Malone, what what I
49:47discovered
49:48of course is that they are amazing
49:50ingredients. So I I now using Spatagonia
49:55and Chaco and Calonia because we made
49:58one that's that's more
50:01a different story. But um
50:04in other things you're using them
50:06in other things in new formulas.
50:09This is I mean I was I was quite happy
50:11to stay on this topic for a while
50:12because I think it was just it was great
50:15observing you as you gave that answer
50:17because I think the fact that we had to
50:19touch on about six or seven topics
50:21before we came back to the answer I
50:22think gives an insight into how your
50:24mind works. I think that was that was
50:25fascinating.
50:27No no
50:27it's very slow
50:30very slow. So I need to come back every
50:34I mean that as a compliment and I don't
50:36mean slow at all. I just mean making
50:38making connections because I guess if
50:39there's one thing that your brand does
50:41which is maybe different from other
50:42brands is that it makes connections
50:44between things that are not normally
50:46connected in in the perfume world. Now
50:49Juan is saying please do part two
50:52because one hour is just not enough.
50:54Rachel is agreeing saying yes we need a
50:56part two. I think I'm going to have to
50:57talk to your team and say please can we
50:59do a part two at some point because
51:01there there just isn't enough time and
51:03we are we are nearly out of time. I have
51:05to take a few more questions from people
51:08who've been, you know, watching very
51:09very patiently. Um,
51:13but it's it's well, let's do one very
51:15very simple question that you should be
51:16able to answer quite quickly. Mr.
51:18Raspopital says, "Can we expect a
51:21Fuegoia store in Canada like in Toronto,
51:24Canada for or is that not planned?"
51:26We used to have we used to have an awan
51:30or something like that.
51:33Maybe I said it uh Rol or Hold Remfru.
51:37Sorry, sorry, the Remfru family. Um
51:42but you know it's our shops works uh
51:46when we are behind them. So the one in
51:48Argentina is our company, the the one in
51:50in the states is us, the one in Italy,
51:53in in London, etc., etc. when we do a
51:56distribution or department store it it
52:00becomes difficult challenging the
52:02training it's like I'm I'm not that fond
52:06of of that effort no uh and it's not
52:09because of of Canada it could be
52:10elsewhere so
52:12sure
52:13um but we're working
52:15at the moment no plans
52:17at the moment no plans that's a short
52:18answer I'm saying sorry
52:19now this is this is a this is
52:21potentially a big question so I'm going
52:24to be rude and interrupt you if We need
52:26to move on, but I want to ask it. Yes.
52:28Rachel is saying Rachel is saying, "Did
52:30you have to get your new raw materials
52:32approved by ifra?"
52:34Of course, we're a perfume laboratory in
52:37in Italy. No. So,
52:40okay.
52:41The thing is that
52:44another one one key thing is why rose,
52:47nutmeg or you name it is
52:52it's affected by Ephra.
52:55the allergens things and there's a lot
52:57now technology allows us to purify in a
53:00more efficient way. So the fact that an
53:03ingredient is banned by Ephra
53:06there's there is a way of going to say
53:08okay ifra tell me why you're banning
53:10rose well isol
53:13okay what about if I remove this or put
53:15it lower by my own method yes it cost me
53:18a fortune to do this purification
53:21fractioning of this but we're already
53:24doing it our dayby-day thing is to
53:26extract things purify them do molecular
53:28distillation do supervitical
53:30distillation So we run them in the grass
53:33chromatography. We see that we can lower
53:34this, absorb it, whatever the case. I'm
53:37not talking about rose in specifically,
53:39but I get away with uh with being able
53:43to use uh potential
53:46ogos. Well, the industry also has
53:49incredible already purified versions of
53:52oaks
53:53uh that fit ifra 4748
53:57or nutmeg with low antranol or you know
54:01without burgense for for citrus blah
54:04blah blah blah blah. So yes, but yes, we
54:07comply with ifra. See,
54:11let's let's say yes.
54:13Okay, let's let's leave it at that. And
54:16let's leave it that because it's a very
54:17long answer, but yes.
54:18No, no, no. And maybe we'll come back to
54:20that. I I'm I am going to get one more
54:24question in there, but again, if if if
54:26you can go kind of give us the sort of
54:28succinct version because this is this
54:30just made me laugh when you told me
54:32about it before we started the
54:33broadcast. You have been asked to make a
54:35perfume for a big event that is
54:37happening towards the end of the year.
54:40Yes. The the World Cup of football.
54:42The world the world cup. None other than
54:44the world cup. So you have made a
54:46perfume for the world cup.
54:48Yes. Yes. Yes. Um
54:50tell us tell us a bit more about that
54:52because there was one aspect of it that
54:53I thought this sounds fascinating.
54:56Uh well the the whole idea was um coming
55:00from a culture that that is very
55:02football oriented like Argentina uh and
55:06Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil won
55:08several of the championship of the cups.
55:12I I came up with the idea of saying,
55:14"Okay, why don't we do a a perfume that
55:16pays honors to to the winners of of the
55:19World Cup and to the next winner or or
55:22at least the place where the next winner
55:24is going to be chosen, not chosen when
55:27when the thing is going to happen."
55:28Yeah.
55:29And the idea was to create a formula
55:32that contains ingredients from the land
55:34of of the previous champions. So, so we
55:37have uh
55:40of course they they are all earthy green
55:42oriented a little bit masky the
55:45masculinity of of of the sport at least
55:48the one that I I remember when I was
55:50playing it not very good but well and uh
55:56and also the the wood for in paying
55:58homage to to Qatar where where the
56:01workout is is very held
56:03and so I use Utandes Patagonia there
56:07again.
56:08But uh we're releasing 2022 bottles.
56:12They're they're going to be
56:14available only in our shops. We're going
56:17to be slow releasing them because we
56:20already are exper it's not enough
56:24quantity. No. And we don't want to make
56:26them that much expensive. No. It's
56:29around 500 euros. It is expensive of
56:32lot. Of course, it is extremely
56:34expensive. My god. But it could be more
56:38expensive. So,
56:39yeah,
56:40it could because extremely expensive
56:43there. So,
56:43and and does it have a name? Does it
56:45have a name?
56:46Yes. Land of champions.
56:49Land of champions. That's a good That's
56:50a good one. That's a good one for
56:51football. It
56:52It was there. It was the ball and you
56:54just need to kick it and and score.
56:58Very good. Nicely done, Julian. Thank
57:00you so much for your time. Thank you
57:02everybody uh for watching for all of
57:04your questions. Like I said, I had a
57:06feeling we would go off on lots and lots
57:08of tangents and I promise you I will do
57:11what I can to get Julian back before too
57:14long because I there there are so I mean
57:16I had so many more questions here. We we
57:18we barely
57:18Yes, let's do it. Let's do it whenever
57:20we have to do it.
57:22We will have to do it. But for now,
57:24thank you very much and and all the best
57:26with your um horicultural endeavors.
57:30Take care, Julian.
57:32Bye-bye.
57:34Bye.

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