Jort Kelder reageert op ophef: 'Ik heb de waarheid gesproken en dat doet pijn' — Transcript

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1. 0:00He
2. 0:02because Jord, a week ago you were here
3. 0:04too with a sacred cow at the time, and
4. 0:06that was about women and the pay gap.
5. 0:08That caused quite a stir. Shall we take
6. 0:10a look at a few reactions? You're going
7. 0:12to get it, man. Dutch columnist,
8. 0:14journalist and on-site national Dutch
9. 0:19TV.
10. 0:19The real money is ultimately earned by
11. 0:21men. There are still so many people who
12. 0:25think like this, who believe that women
13. 0:27are inferior to men. Even on the junior
14. 0:30list that Quote still publishes. Four
15. 0:32women, all top models, and one woman
16. 0:34with a little shop.
17. 0:35But someone wearing Breitlings, of
18. 0:37course, has no eye for that at all.
19. 0:39And you shouldn't be derogatory about a
20. 0:41woman who is super successful, who has
21. 0:4340 branches of her store.
22. 0:44If you keep calling them little shops,
23. 0:46it's not going to work.
24. 0:47Yes, watches, because we're coming.
25. 0:52And did they get you? This is the first
26. 0:54time I'm seeing it, because I don't
27. 0:56keep up with what people are on social
28. 0:57...Well, I can go on it, but I don't.
29. 1:00Better things to do.
30. 1:01Uh, I saw the chaos on LinkedIn and all
31. 1:03that fuss passing by. It is an
32. 1:05emotional topic, that is clear. Uh,
33. 1:07maybe I shouldn't have used the word "
34. 1:09little shop," but I don't use that in a
35. 1:11male or female sense at all. I think a
36. 1:13"little shop," or retail in a store, is
37. 1:15not the deep factor for the economy
38. 1:17that, for example, a large tech company
39. 1:19or a unicorn has. It's not that
40. 1:22important. Everyone
41. 1:23it wasn't a little shop around the
42. 1:24corner from Sharon Hilgers of My
43. 1:26Jewellery, because she has a value of
44. 1:28€ 5 million and 65 boutique shops.
45. 1:30No, but that's fine. But Sam, that is
46. 1:32all perfectly fine. If only there were
47. 1:34more, but with just little shops alone
48. 1:35we won't become a prosperous country. I
49. 1:37mean, that's just too little. So it is,
50. 1:40I was making a plea that it's a shame
51. 1:42that young girls do psychology and
52. 1:44criminology and law, but don't go to
53. 1:46Delft—they do, too. But those people
54. 1:48—we really need those people very
55. 1:49badly, too.
56. 1:50Sure, we need them too. It's just that
57. 1:52the Dutch economy is stuck at the point
58. 1:54of, uh, we have 300,000 vacancies, uh,
59. 1:55soon a lack of technicians in technical
60. 1:57professions from vocational to academic
61. 1:59. And that is a major concern, and it
62. 2:01is not only a male responsibility to
63. 2:02take on those kinds of jobs. I think
64. 2:04that is also useful for women. Apart
65. 2:05from—because you just said that here
66. 2:07before we started—that there are also
67. 2:08people in healthcare and education,
68. 2:10which is all fine.
69. 2:11The point I wanted to make is that
70. 2:12women are underrepresented on those
71. 2:14entrepreneur lists, and that pay gap
72. 2:15has largely evaporated. You could look
73. 2:17at all the percentages, but that’s
74. 2:19pretty much gone. Let’s talk about
75. 2:20the real big money instead. I think I
76. 2:22may have spoken a bit of the truth that
77. 2:24hurts so much. I am sorry, though.
78. 2:25Was it disparaging, too disparaging
79. 2:27toward women? Because indeed, the
80. 2:29others, it’s a feminist story, guys.
81. 2:31Join in. It’s not something you can
82. 2:33just laugh about at all. Can you laugh
83. 2:34it off? Well, I’m not going to claim
84. 2:36that either. But no, that would be—I
85. 2:37find that to be such a hypocritical
86. 2:39thing. I am a big feminist. No, but the
87. 2:41fact that women are absent there, and
88. 2:43I’ve also received many letters from
89. 2:44women that I see directly and do read.
90. 2:46Hmm.
91. 2:47The opposition women face in all sorts
92. 2:48of male environments, male-led
93. 2:50companies, that is, of course, quite
94. 2:52shocking. I’ve been standing in front
95. 2:53of rooms for 20 years with nothing but
96. 2:55balding men with weird glasses and
97. 2:56ill-fitting suits. Did you think it was
98. 2:58fun for me, being with only guys?
99. 2:59Sounds very boring.
100. 3:00Doesn’t it?
101. 3:01Marlijn, how did you listen to it? Well
102. 3:03, I mean, I understand—you just
103. 3:05explained to me what you actually meant
104. 3:08, and okay, then I do get it. But what
105. 3:10I really think is, as you just said,
106. 3:12it’s an emotional debate. Underneath
107. 3:14that, there is obviously a world of
108. 3:16women running into all sorts of things.
109. 3:18Painful experiences, obstacles. And I
110. 3:21also understand that this is a segment
111. 3:22called "Sacred Cows." So this is
112. 3:24actually what you want. For everyone to
113. 3:26be all stirred up. But I do wonder if
114. 3:29that’s the most interesting thing to
115. 3:31talk about. What you just explained,
116. 3:33that I find to be an interesting story:
117. 3:35okay, we need those technological jobs
118. 3:37and the prosperity, and how does that
119. 3:39all relate to one another? I also think
120. 3:41intuitively, yeah, maybe there is
121. 3:43something wrong with a society where we
122. 3:45need so much technology and so little
123. 3:48care. I mean, what are we as humans?
124. 3:50Are we robots, or are we social beings
125. 3:52in need of care? I really think so. But
126. 3:54that might be a different conversation.
127. 3:57So I understand your point, but I do
128. 3:59think you could have presented it with
129. 4:01more acknowledgment of the intensity of
130. 4:03many women's reality, and with more
131. 4:05nuance.
132. 4:05Has it been communicated well enough
133. 4:07here, in this segment?
134. 4:09Well, look, I think it’s also in the
135. 4:11choice of words, right? I mean, "a
136. 4:13little shop." Yes, then you can say
137. 4:15later: "Yeah, that's not what I meant."
138. 4:17But yeah, that is of course exactly, uh
139. 4:19, where it lies in these kinds of words
140. 4:21.
141. 4:21I did mean it that way.
142. 4:22Yeah. Yeah, just that example. Yeah,
143. 4:24okay. No worries. Yeah,
144. 4:26it's not about that specific mistake.
145. 4:28It's about I'd rather have tech than a
146. 4:29than many shops.
147. 4:30That's what I mean. Whether it's a man
148. 4:32or a woman really shouldn't matter.
149. 4:33And quite honestly, there are just a
150. 4:35lot of professions we desperately need.
151. 4:37Look, what would be great, I think, is
152. 4:39for many women to feel there is room to
153. 4:41work more hours, for example. If we
154. 4:43look at, uh, having children, families,
155. 4:46or whatever, right? Then you still see
156. 4:48very often that it's women who start
157. 4:50working fewer hours. If daycare calls
158. 4:52and the child is sick, the woman is the
159. 4:54first one to be called.
160. 4:56Um, yeah, there is still a way to go in
161. 4:58terms of achieving that equality in the
162. 5:00relationship, so that it becomes more
163. 5:02balanced. And there is a role for women
164. 5:04in that, too, though men are luckily
165. 5:06already doing more, right, in recent
166. 5:08years.
167. 5:09Well, luckily. I think it's very good
168. 5:12to move forward as equals the moment
169. 5:13you start a family, right? Right.
170. 5:15Do you want a pat on the back? Yes,
171. 5:17very good, guys. It's just nice for men
172. 5:20to have an equal relationship, it seems
173. 5:22to me. And to have a share in raising
174. 5:24children. And I mean, feminism isn't
175. 5:26just for women, right? It's also to
176. 5:28move men
177. 5:29forward in the world.
178. 5:30Certainly. Coming up, a new sacred cow.
179. 5:32I'm looking forward to it.
180. 5:34Me too. Go. Do you want more videos
181. 5:35like this? Support us and become a
182. 5:37member. Go to steunwnl.tv. Yes.