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Jordi Visser: Why AI Agents Make the BTC Bull Case — Transcript

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0:00I want to welcome our first guests into
0:02the show today and I'm sure he has many
0:03thoughts on AI himself. Jordi Visser,
0:05head of AI macro Nexus at 22V Research.
0:08We'll start with Bitcoin though, Jordy.
0:11Uh you've drawn a very sharp distinction
0:13between bitcoin.
0:16Oh, I'm just looks like we're having
0:18some tech difficulties with Jordy. Okay.
0:20Well, we're gonna we're going to hear
0:21from him later, so we'll just continue
0:23our own conversation for now. Um but you
0:25were talking about uh basically the
0:28difference between
0:30waiting for other productivity in
0:31factory buildups whereas the AI product
0:33I it's already here people already have
0:35access to it. There's not much to wait
0:37for.
0:38>> Yeah. And I think that that plays into
0:39this bet the administration's taking
0:41right. They need nominal growth above uh
0:45interest cost shrinking uh the debt to
0:48GDP. Um, and and you know, wi with AI,
0:51there might be a way to grow out of it
0:53plausibly or or maybe AI will enable
0:57other industries to to grow out of it.
1:00Um, you know, if if we're wrong, I think
1:03ultimately they just have to inflate
1:04their way out of it and maybe the two
1:06aren't necessarily distinct or separate
1:08either. Um, either way, the the bond
1:11holders are going to have to pay. Um,
1:15yeah. You know, I'm going to break the
1:16fourth wall a little bit here. Can we
1:18can we continue moving on with our AI
1:19story control room? Uh cuz I think I'd
1:21like to go that way. Oh, you know what?
1:23I I'm hearing Jordy is ready. Jordy, can
1:25you hear us? Good morning to you.
1:28>> I I can apparently I froze. I'm I'm I'm
1:30unfrozen now.
1:32>> It's okay. We We That's Now we got all
1:34the jitters out of the way on Monday.
1:36We're We're going to have a great show
1:37now. Um but thank you so much for for
1:39joining us today and we're going to talk
1:41about AI a little bit, but I do want to
1:43start with Bitcoin here. um because
1:45you've drawn a very sharp distinction
1:47between Bitcoin and the rest of the
1:49crypto ecosystem, saying Bitcoin is the
1:51one asset you believe will still be here
1:54decades from now. So, what do you think
1:56people are are bullish on on who are
2:00bullish on the entire crypto market?
2:01What are they missing about the
2:02distinction between the two?
2:06>> Well, let let's let's get something a
2:09little bit straight um here. Uh, Bitcoin
2:12is the only one in the ecosystem that I
2:15can say with certainty, in my vision,
2:16will be here in 20 years, but we're at
2:20the stage right now where the ecosystem
2:22will lead Bitcoin in my opinion. Um, and
2:24that really has to do with some of the
2:26things that you guys were talking about.
2:29It's important for people to understand
2:31that the users of crypto, let's leave
2:33Bitcoin alone for a second, the users of
2:36the guard rails, the users that would
2:38make the productivity go better, were
2:40never meant to be human. So, the reason
2:43I say Bitcoin will be the only thing
2:44left here in 20 years because AI has a
2:47positive. The positive is it is
2:49productivity is already accelerating. I
2:51disagree with what you guys said that
2:53it'll take years. It's already
2:54happening. Um, and I'm just going to
2:56make sure you guys hear this.
2:58Productivity is not a true number. It is
3:02based it's an output based on GDP. So
3:04you're making an assumption that GDP can
3:06capture the benefits that come with AI
3:09leading to the productivity. That's not
3:10true. And it wasn't true in the 1990s.
3:13You guys are too young to know this, but
3:14if you go look it up, they revised GDP
3:17higher. That's the reason we had the
3:19productivity boom. They revised it later
3:21because they had to change the
3:23calculation of GDP because it was built
3:24for the industrial revolution. So this
3:26problem has been going on. So the
3:28productivity gains will be seen way way
3:30down the line. The reason the ecosystem
3:31will benefit dramatically right now is
3:34because the agents are starting to use
3:36it in the form of consumer agents and
3:38this is going to be a rise that happens.
3:40So Bitcoin will be the only thing that
3:41lasts because the one negative is AI
3:44will disrupt all businesses as well.
3:47>> So as that plays out and as a gentic
3:50economy scale, what does that financial
3:52system look like? Is it materially
3:54different than you know the bitcoin
3:56markets today or defy today?
4:00>> Uh so the I just wrote a paper um that
4:04was called ghost rail and it was my
4:07belief on how we've kind of gone in
4:10crypto where for the first 15 years we
4:14were building the rails we were building
4:15the defy. We were building the ability
4:17to lend. We were going through all of
4:19the things that would allow for
4:20tokenizations that will allow for stable
4:22coins to move around the world. But the
4:24only thing we were missing was the
4:25users. If you go back to the internet
4:28and for me the internet began with
4:30Netscape when it went public and then
4:32about 15 years later or let's say 14
4:36years later, we had the iPhone and then
4:38we had the app store. That is when
4:40humans were able to truly use the
4:43internet for commerce. Now we're at the
4:46point where for commerce and the crypto
4:47rails and users are going to be agents.
4:50It will never be humans. It will be
4:51agents in front of them. That is very
4:53positive for the ecosystem. It is
4:55extremely positive for Bitcoin because
4:56my belief is that Bitcoin represents the
4:59entirety of all the innovations that are
5:01happening both in the fiat world and in
5:03the crypto world and that it will be the
5:05only uh instrument left standing in 20
5:08years when AI reaches abundance.
5:12>> Yeah. and and I I like your analogy
5:14you've put out previously of of
5:15comparing it to the railroads uh as as
5:19well. Do you do you see humans still
5:22using DeFi, Bitcoin and these
5:24innovations largely? I I know that one
5:26of one of the things you comment on is
5:28is this idea that, you know, this this
5:30technology is way more useful for
5:32agents, right? And humans don't need
5:33infinitely divisible money necessarily.
5:36Um, is this something humans are going
5:38to eventually kind of all get on board
5:40with the program or largely get on board
5:41with the program anyway or or will
5:43anything substantially change in in the
5:45human realm?
5:48>> Humans will get on board um in a
5:50different way. So, I'm sure everyone has
5:52the funny story of um someone in their
5:55family still having a VCR in their house
5:57when streaming was available. Um that is
6:00a representation of the slow adoption
6:02that humans have to innovation. So when
6:04I made the ghost rails analogy, this was
6:06related to the ghost cities uh in China.
6:09When people would visit, like myself,
6:11China, we'd see empty apartments.
6:13There'd be no commerce that was going
6:14on. If we waited for humans to be able
6:17to set up a wallet, we'd still be
6:19waiting for years. Uh it is still not
6:22easy, nor should it be, because of the
6:24protection that it brings. So it should
6:26be harder. But an agent to your point,
6:28it's not just the microtransactions.
6:30It's not just the amount of transactions
6:32it can do for a hundth of a penny. It is
6:36for all commerce. And the way that
6:38humans will adapt to it is that there
6:40will be apps just like we got used to
6:42with Uber and everything else where it
6:44will be done for you. And that is
6:45starting. That's what's important about
6:47Meta releasing Muse recently, which is a
6:49personal AI assistant. Instinct AI
6:52raised money in uh August August so one
6:55month ago at two and a half billion
6:57dollar valuation and now you have
6:59Sequoia and Benchmark two of the most
7:00respected uh VC firms putting money in
7:04at 10 billion is what the stories are
7:07floating around. So you can see how fast
7:09that the agentic side is starting to
7:10pick up for soon.
7:13>> So you've also been making the case that
7:15tokenization is much bigger than simply
7:18putting stocks or other assets on a
7:20blockchain. and it could create a whole
7:21financial system where assets become
7:23programmable and the AI agents can
7:24actually use them. So, how does that
7:26change the way we think about what an
7:28asset actually is and what it can do?
7:32>> Well, this brings let's start right off
7:34the bat with what it does to money
7:36supply. So, we've heard a lot about how
7:38crypto is driven by liquidity and that
7:41would make sense when it's an innovation
7:43that isn't necessarily in the growth
7:45stage. Once you get to the point of say
7:47where the mag seven are where you've
7:49developed a innovation that everyone
7:51needs, you start to break away from the
7:53relationship between liquidity, you
7:55start to break away from the
7:56relationship to higher rates, higher oil
7:58prices. And that's where I think we are
8:00right now in terms of going through the
8:02the crypto phase. And the reason is
8:05because at this stage we're at the user
8:07stage. We're at the point where it
8:09starts to grow and you start to see the
8:11compounding. And the way that M2 changes
8:14is that M2 at this point is really just
8:16liquid money. With tokenization,
8:19everything gets liqufied. Everything
8:22enters. So what you'll have is $900
8:25trillion worth of assets that become
8:28money. And right now the global money
8:30supply is say $120 trillion. So the
8:32greatest thing for crypto is that agents
8:35are plugged in to make transactions that
8:37they will be able to use fractional
8:39parts of a house, fractional parts of of
8:41of any kind of illquid things. Think
8:44about the problems we've heard about in
8:45private credit. All of this thing starts
8:47to enter a period where the transactions
8:49start speeding up. The ability of using
8:52them for a short time period. If you
8:54can't meet your monthly payroll because
8:56you don't have enough income because one
8:57of your uh the people in your business
8:59that you receive money from couldn't do
9:01it but you own the real estate and you
9:03want to make your payments well then you
9:04can basically use your real estate
9:06whatever assets you have become money
9:09and that means that businesses have an
9:10advantage in terms of being able to look
9:12at the assets they have on their balance
9:14sheet. So this is a dramatic change that
9:16I don't think enough people have thought
9:17and I know economists have not thought
9:19enough about it.
9:21>> And you know of US wealth uh 184
9:25trillion of its held by you know the top
9:2710% which is something you've pointed
9:29out before
9:31for Bitcoin's next stage of adoption. I
9:33I agree. I believe you've you've
9:35previously said on on some podcasts that
9:37that's incredibly important for the next
9:38phase of adoption alongside the agentic
9:41trade as well. what's going to have to
9:44change in this in in the Bitcoin
9:46ecosystem or the Bitcoin narrative to
9:48get that capital moving.
9:51Uh I I think the main thing here is uh
9:54and I hate to say this uh for for
9:56everyone who doesn't believe business
9:58will drive money but my job coming from
10:00the traditional finance world from being
10:02a CIO to hedge fund from being Morgan
10:04Stanley is I work with people that are
10:07not only in the top 10% many in the top
10:101% and they don't believe in crypto they
10:12don't believe in Bitcoin and I'll use
10:14Michael Sailor's line uh you don't find
10:16Bitcoin Bitcoin finds you which
10:18basically means until people need to do
10:20it they own. Well, for that to happen,
10:22two things need need to h need need to
10:24go on. Number one, fiat assets in your
10:26in what you own need to start performing
10:29poorly. That has obviously happened with
10:31the bond market. It has, I would say,
10:34over the last 5 years happened with
10:36private equity, private credit, VC. It's
10:39not as easy to make money the way that
10:41you did before. And I think the equity
10:43market is going to go through the same
10:45thing. And once that happens, one of the
10:47most important things for all human
10:49beings, I don't care how wealthy you
10:51are, I've never met a person who's not
10:52trying to make more money or invest
10:54their money and have it turn into more
10:55to be handed down either for their
10:57legacy or anything. So, uh, greed, for
11:00lack of a better word, is what the 900
11:02trillion that is owned by the top 10%,
11:04they still have greed. when crypto is
11:07working and it is durable and more
11:09importantly when there's fundamental use
11:11cases which is where we are right now
11:13stories like Robin Hood in uh in August
11:17to September are really important. You
11:19need to find these situations where
11:20you've got public equities that allow
11:22people to go look at how revenues from
11:25the crypto world can translate into this
11:27other world that they're more familiar
11:29with. That is why Coinbase is important.
11:31That is why Circle is important. That is
11:33why the Bitcoin miners, we didn't have
11:34this situation before the ETF. We didn't
11:37have enough companies for the people to
11:39go do the investigative work on, but
11:41there's more and more that are out
11:42there. That'll lead to more people
11:43focused on the opportunities that come
11:45in crypto. And as the equity market,
11:47which has had a lot of trouble this year
11:48for a year that earnings have grown
11:50rapidly, I think you already have people
11:51knocking on the door. I know that
11:53because that's what I do for a living is
11:54people are knocking on my door every
11:55day.
11:58>> I believe you've said you're a Bitcoin
11:59maxi for the next 30 years. So, I'm I'm
12:02curious. We're talking about AI
12:03accelerating the pace of innovation and
12:05and everything here. What is it about
12:07Bitcoin's design that makes you think
12:10it's so it's so difficult to out
12:12innovate? Is it the monetary policy, the
12:14decentralization network effect,
12:16something else?
12:19>> No, it's the Santa Claus effect. Um,
12:22it's really hard to get humans to
12:24believe on something. It's really really
12:26hard to get hundred hundreds of millions
12:28of people to agree on anything. So I say
12:31the moat of belief is a lot harder than
12:33the moat of innovation. And the mode of
12:35belief only has three winners in my
12:38mind. Religion and I'm going to include
12:40Santa Claus in the religion side. So
12:42religion,
12:44gold, and Bitcoin. And everything else
12:47will come and go. One of the benefits of
12:49Bitcoin is that it's not an innovation.
12:51Meaning the white paper itself was an
12:53innovation. When Mark Andre wrote his
12:55famous paper, why Bitcoin matters, if
12:57you read it today,
12:59he wasn't really talking about Bitcoin
13:02itself. He was talking about Ethereum.
13:03He was so programmable money. He was
13:06talking about stable coins. He was
13:07talking about the theory of what would
13:10happen, the vision of what would happen.
13:12But none of that can happen without the
13:15community of Bitcoin that created it. So
13:17when I say I'm a Bitcoin maxi, that gets
13:19back to the point of AI will disrupt and
13:21make everything that we think we believe
13:23in fake. The blockchain will help us
13:25know what to trust. Business will move
13:28from the traditional world onto the
13:30rails. The rails will be more for
13:31Salana, more for Ethereum. But Bitcoin
13:33doesn't need to be the best innovation.
13:35It will be the collateral. It will be
13:37the thing that you trust will be here.
13:38And that means it will be the underlying
13:41part of the system that is the hardest
13:43to change because it has the leap of
13:45hundreds of millions.
13:47And you know, I've seen you talk about
13:49the the page uh that Liupole put out
13:52about uh the the exponential, you know,
13:55uh degree that AI will be able to expand
13:57and grow and get better as it programs
13:59and self-tunes itself. You know, with AI
14:02compressing at the rate of innovation
14:04that that you posit and you expect to
14:06happen, what are investors missing in
14:09the marketplace? Um I you know I don't
14:12think a lot of people have internalized
14:13you know if this is true and if this
14:15does truly become exponential. What are
14:18the second and third order effects that
14:20you think people are really not
14:21factoring into the market?
14:24>> It all has to do with time. Um I'm
14:27headed to uh Washington DC today to go
14:31to Freedom Tech and part of what I'm
14:35going to focus my attention on and
14:36speaking on is the problem of time. And
14:39I think if people leave um this with one
14:43message from me, speed is picking up. So
14:46when you talk about productivity, the
14:48easiest way for productivity to increase
14:50is
14:52digital agents are here. Um Leopold
14:55showed that when we reached the part of
14:57autonomous agent, which can be measured
15:00two ways, we solved the math problem
15:02that's been around since before
15:03Einstein. At the same time, we have
15:05hackings going on. These are indications
15:08of agent forms, meaning thousands of
15:10agents working together. Well, they work
15:1224/7, 365. I've said before that humans
15:16only work in digital agent time, 70 days
15:21a year, which means agents by definition
15:23will be producing four times the work of
15:26humans. And when we start getting into
15:27humanoids, the number is getting faster.
15:30So by definition, GDP will accelerate.
15:32It will accelerate quickly. So I think
15:33the things that people are missing are
15:35we'll be solving some of the world's
15:37greatest problems. Um cancer, we had a
15:39cancer vaccine uh in the last six weeks.
15:42Uh we solved the math problem that's
15:44been around since before Einstein. We
15:46will be solving things that we haven't
15:47solved before because the capabilities
15:49have reached the point where we have
15:51agents. That's why crypto is starting to
15:53lift in a significant way. It is because
15:56the use cases that Mark Andre and all of
15:58A16Z have talked about are finally
16:01hitting the point where the users of
16:03crypto, the ones that will drive the
16:05numbers that you will see grow rapidly,
16:07they're here today and that's the
16:08inflection point. So Leopold's uh just
16:11acknowledgement of where we are in the
16:12cycle which he wrote about in 2024, the
16:15critical lift off point in my opinion
16:17>> and you know obviously this is like like
16:20you mentioned the cancer vaccine and
16:21things like that. This is incredibly
16:23important technology. and it has the
16:25opportunity to provide so much to
16:26humanity and it's it's been a largely
16:28debt financed buildout. Um so you know
16:32without kind of writing off the
16:34importance and also the returns of this
16:36technology do do you think that there's
16:38concerns with with how how crowded
16:40that's made the debt market and maybe
16:43blocked out some competition that that
16:45might otherwise be flowing into
16:46treasuries.
16:48>> Are people concerned? Yes. Am I
16:50concerned? Absolutely. Um, so again, I I
16:53unfortunately live like you guys in a
16:55world of X and in social media and all
16:58types of things gather my information.
17:00The sentiment on the bond situation is
17:04one of the most ridiculous things I've
17:06seen in my lifetime. Uh, first of all,
17:08we had this concentration of these
17:10companies having too much equity. These
17:12companies are worth trillions of dollars
17:13and now for the first time they're
17:15borrowing money. And so when we see
17:17these charts of look how big the debt
17:19is, it's always relative to how much
17:21money they borrowed before. The real
17:23story is how did these companies get to
17:25the size they are without ever taking
17:27out debt? They have a backlog of
17:29trillions of dollars of revenue that
17:30they can't receive from people because
17:33they don't have the data centers and the
17:35cloud compute to be able to receive
17:36those dollars. So this is not true. Um,
17:40if you go back and look at the size of
17:42the equity market since the great
17:43financial crisis, it's up two and a half
17:46times. We're at 70 plus trillion dollars
17:48of equity. The corporate debt world has
17:52not gone even close to what that is now.
17:54And now it's being concentrated with the
17:56most pristine balance sheets in the
17:57world. So the debt market is just a way
18:00to scare people where there'll be
18:01hiccups along the way. Of course, we
18:03might not see anthropics and open AI get
18:05the revenue growth continuing every pace
18:07they are, but you will see breakthroughs
18:09and we have a chance for breakthrough.
18:11How much is that worth the revenues from
18:13the data centers and everything else?
18:14You just can't imagine the benefits that
18:16are going to come from AI. So to look at
18:18the debt market, which is a linear
18:20number. It is based on human time.
18:23Agents don't work on human time. They
18:25work on agent time. Agent time is the
18:28asset side of the balance sheet. It's
18:29the key side of the balance sheet. that
18:31is going to pick up. Although I don't
18:33agree with Scott Besson on everything. I
18:36will say that running it hot is a little
18:39bit uh of a bad statement that has
18:43people freaked out a little bit. I would
18:45just say making long-term investments in
18:47AI for the benefits that are going to
18:49come down the road when it's
18:51accelerating at such a fast pace. The
18:53fact that we're seeing things like
18:54cancer vaccines, everyone watching this
18:57has been affected by cancer in their
18:58lives. I can't think of a better
19:00economic output to come from something
19:02like AI for all the debt that's gone
19:04through. We're worried about the
19:06revenues, whether they come in on time
19:07or not. I think people are just uh
19:09they're not paying attention to the
19:10offensive side of the ball.
19:12>> Jordy, what's your take on the recent AI
19:14doomsday soap opera? The comments from
19:16Daario and Altman. What do you think
19:18their motivation is?
19:20>> Uh, I think it there's there's a
19:22combination of of genuine fear that
19:24these models are more capable than they
19:27are. um they're using them every day and
19:29I think people should recognize that
19:30anyone I I'm on all the models all day
19:33long I pay for the most censured ones
19:36what they can do week to week in terms
19:38of the change is in it's incredible it's
19:41really something that's breathtaking and
19:42that just means that you'd be shocked I
19:45had a friend who um played around
19:48literally with an LLM and that he now
19:50had built a genealogy thing that could
19:52go back now if you go try to get your
19:54genealogy back to the 1500s it's going
19:56to cost you thousands thousand of
19:57dollars. He sent me that answer and it
20:00was $4 and change, he said. So, we've
20:02reached a point that these things are
20:04way too powerful. So, I do think there's
20:05a fear component that they don't want
20:07the liability of what people could do
20:08with them. The second part is there's a
20:10political angle for sure. And even
20:12though you could focus on anthropic, the
20:15fact that Elon Musk and Sam Walton are
20:17on this, I think there's a Republican
20:18and a Democrat side to this, which is
20:20they don't know who's going to win the
20:22election in 2028. They don't know how
20:23the midterms are going to go, but they
20:25have a pretty good idea. I think their
20:26biggest concern right now is making sure
20:28that they have both parties looking at
20:29them as respectable actors and then I
20:32think both of them are coming out with
20:33an IPO where they're a little reluctant
20:36to give everyone the details. So I think
20:39when you mix it all up I think it is a
20:40combination of everything and so there's
20:42usually more answers than one to any
20:44soap opera. There's usually a lot of
20:46moving pieces and scripts that are going
20:48around and you have to keep up with it.
20:49I think that's the same thing.
20:51>> And you've you've pointed out too that
20:54corporate profit margins are expanding
20:56while you know hiring and employment
20:58outside of healthcare seems to be
21:01falling. Um you know is this something
21:03to be of concern or is this something
21:05that you know there might be new job
21:08creation by the expansion of this
21:09industry that will kind of net things
21:11out?
21:14>> I think there'll be three factors. One
21:16is there's people like me that are
21:17entrepreneurs that have built their own
21:19business. I've built my own business and
21:20I I provide education to people trying
21:22to understand how AI and crypto are
21:24changing the world, how fast they're
21:26moving and keep them up to date on that
21:27and I try to educate them on how to
21:29invest in it and to go through it. I
21:30think there's a lot of people like me
21:32that have realized that by using AI
21:35particularly people that have managed
21:37people for for years uh that this is a
21:40great opportunity to start a business.
21:41On the other side, yeah, we've got 30%
21:45earnings growth and for the first time
21:46in history, we're not creating a lot of
21:49jobs. Um, all the jobs we've created
21:51over the last, you know, since the end
21:52of 2024 have been in the healthcare
21:54field. We've created no other jobs in
21:56net. If you take them out, it's overall
21:59negative. And so, this is a change
22:01that's happening. It's not about firing
22:03people. It's about demographics rolling
22:05off, not hiring people. So remember,
22:08there's demographics that are kicking
22:09in. For every person that is entering
22:12the workforce, there's more than one
22:14person leaving the workforce because of
22:16age. So I'm not expecting a job
22:18apocalypse. I'm not expecting any kind
22:20of negative side. I think there's a
22:22third bucket that people have to start
22:23to incorporate. The wealth that's been
22:25created by exponential innovation, which
22:28started with the mag seven and is now
22:29going to continue with AI and the profit
22:31margin, it benefits people that are
22:33invested. And despite what people say,
22:35everyone pretty much across the country
22:37in some way is invested in the market.
22:40Not all people, but I think the numbers
22:42are up near 70 plus percent because you
22:44have to include pension funds. You have
22:45to include everything that people have
22:47worked on where they got something
22:48involved. Now you're starting to get
22:50their kids involved in terms of the
22:52account. We're trying to make sure that
22:53everyone is a part of the stock market
22:55in some way. And I think the benefits
22:57are going to come and that creates a
22:58world of abundance where people don't
22:59need to work. And I think we're starting
23:01to to believe that that's the case. So
23:02less hiring, more people that don't need
23:05to work, and yes, a rise of
23:06entrepreneurs, and that'll keep it more,
23:08you know, neutral than what people
23:10probably expect.
23:11>> I think you may have alluded to this
23:13earlier, but what drives the demand for
23:14Bitcoin for the next 30 years? Is it
23:16humans, institutions, or the AI agents?
23:20>> Uh, it's all three. Um, on the human
23:22side, you speculation will cause greed,
23:25which will get humans trading at home to
23:27be more involved. We saw what happened
23:29with the AI infrastructure names in
23:30first quarter of this year. Well, those
23:32names have now reached a point where
23:33they've discounted enough in the future
23:35where I don't think they can have the
23:36same type of return. The institutions
23:38because of the ETFs, because of the
23:40regulatory side, uh, because they've
23:42been around for long enough, and because
23:43the fundamental side is showing up,
23:45they're going to get involved. And on
23:46the agent side, for everyone who's been
23:48frustrated as to why people don't accept
23:50Bitcoin, why they called it rap poison,
23:53turds, whatever you want to come up with
23:54the names that have mentioned by very
23:56historic investors and people working at
23:58banks. The issue that comes in is that
24:01comes from some basic thing in history
24:04that comes from some knowledge. AI
24:06agents don't care about that. They don't
24:07have preferences. They don't have a
24:09schooling where they come in
24:10indoctrinated on what should work and
24:12shouldn't. They make investments the
24:13oldfashioned way. What's working? what's
24:15gonna make money and let me get involved
24:17with the best sharp ratio and we all
24:19know that leads back.
24:21>> Now, one final question. I know you got
24:23to go and I want to be respectful of
24:24your time, but you know, you you
24:25mentioned we're entering into
24:27>> my train.
24:29you enter into a well maybe the rails
24:32aren't ready yet but uh you know we're
24:35>> and nothing's going to stop the train by
24:36the way but you know we're entering into
24:38an era of of abundance like you say and
24:40a lot of people hear that and they hear
24:42you know it's going to be great for
24:43entrepreneurs and you know people aren't
24:45going to have to work and it's going to
24:46be abundant uh but but then that raises
24:49the question you know what about people
24:50who who maybe don't have the the
24:52cognitive capacity to go and create
24:53something original or do something or
24:55people that would historically have jobs
24:57that are replaced you know Where has the
24:59capital come from basically to foot the
25:01bill for for their lives?
25:03>> It comes through deflation. So again, a
25:05world of abundance is about deflation,
25:07but it's about good deflation. It's
25:09about driving the costs of things down
25:11to zero. AI agents will force the price
25:13of things down to zero. There is so many
25:16middlemen involved in the system that AI
25:18agents will replace. A lot of the
25:19inflation that we have currently today
25:22is about the middlemen involved. There
25:24are to get a house done. How many people
25:27do you have to pay and how much
25:28paperwork has to be done? All of this
25:30will be done by AI agents and if you
25:32strip out the middlemen which is what
25:34decentralization what this whole journey
25:36has been about. Think about the annual
25:39deflation that will come in not in the
25:41form of assets. So what I do believe
25:44this will show up for everyone is that
25:46gradually over time we'll see the cost
25:48go down. medical services, people
25:50carrying cancer. Guys, the end result of
25:53where most of the entitlements go
25:54through from a health care perspective
25:56or in the final five days of your life.
25:58If we get to the point where people only
26:00die from just old age and just dying in
26:04a very very healthy way as opposed to
26:06dying from some disease that we can't
26:08solve, you're dealing with a very
26:10different world. So, I think people have
26:11to realize that if we get to the world
26:13of abundance, which I think we will,
26:15it's a very deflationary situation, but
26:17a good deflation. the innovation
26:19outrunning the assets and the assets
26:21will continue to move higher.
26:23>> Jordy, really fantastic insights. Really
26:26appreciate you joining us today. Thanks
26:27so much. It
26:28>> was a pleasure. Night from me.

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