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Jordi Visser: The Next Generation May Not Need Wall Street to Get Rich — Transcript

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0:00We're trapped. We're trapped having to
0:01go to work. We're trapped not being able
0:03to afford a home. In the vision that I
0:05have with AI, it is very disruptive for
0:07the next 5 years because there's an
0:09adjustment period. We are going to have
0:10servants for us in the form of digital
0:13employees that work 24/7. And so,
0:15younger generation is going to be just
0:16fine. They're going to be fine cuz
0:18they're not going to need to work.
0:19>> In that world where you don't maybe need
0:22to work, but you need money, what do you
0:24do? How do you get money?
0:26>> Most of the S&P 500 is garbage. It's
0:29companies that have not gone up for a
0:31long time. So what's happened over the
0:33course of time is the market has moved
0:35to disrupting all businesses. And so
0:38crypto now we're talking about the
0:39capital system changing. The whole money
0:41system is going to change and it's
0:43global. And that means that the people
0:45who adopt to it first just like with AI
0:47are going to be the ones that
0:48financially benefit the most.
0:49>> So like how do you think this is going
0:51to play out?
0:51>> So let's think about how the system is
0:53going to have to change if I'm right.
1:01back by popular demand, Shorty Visser,
1:04who I'm going to give an award to. I I
1:06don't actually have anything to present,
1:07but I'm going to give you the award for
1:09best new voice in Bitcoin the last year.
1:11Every time I hear from my viewers,
1:14they're like, "Bring Jordy back." Or
1:15when I've had you on, Jord's the best.
1:17Jord's the goat. So, you've made an
1:20impact on the community.
1:21>> So, here's the funny thing about that.
1:23Um, there are podcasts I go on that are
1:27doomer podcasts. They hate me, okay?
1:30They literally hate me. And I can see it
1:32in the way that I get asked back like
1:35once a year. I can tell the groups that
1:38I connect with more. And usually those
1:39are people that um don't like the I'd
1:43say both the doomer side and then the
1:45overly optimistic side. So hopefully the
1:48reason um people enjoy us
1:53is because we try to keep things in the
1:55middle of the fairway as much as
1:56possible and not turn it into some what
1:58am I selling today performance.
2:00>> Yeah. Well, maybe we can talk a little
2:01bit about that because we we see so many
2:03conflicting headlines out there. It's
2:05hard to navigate the markets. We
2:06recently saw people tweeting that the
2:08Neoclouds are, you know, a a bust right
2:11now. And then to your point, we were
2:12talking off camera earlier then Elon
2:15Musk was raising money. So, like there's
2:16always something behind the main
2:18headlines. We saw Jason and Chimoth
2:20saying Bitcoin's going to zero.
2:22>> I don't know if there's something behind
2:23that and the engagement farming, but
2:25like what's your take on some of the
2:27headlines versus like what the truth
2:28actually is.
2:30>> All right. Have you ever had a year
2:31where something didn't go wrong in your
2:33lifetime during the year?
2:34>> I I wish I would have that kind of year.
2:36I hope 2027 is that.
2:38>> And at the end of the year, you can
2:40pretty much look at it and it just
2:42depends on what the theme was. You could
2:44be having a new job. You could have a
2:46new child. You could be your child could
2:48be leaving to go off to college, but
2:49something impacts your life during that
2:51year. Um, markets are just like life.
2:55They're biological in the fact that
2:57there's highs and there's lows, and
2:58they're very emotional and they're very
3:00psychological. So, you know, I I've
3:03learned this over time. Um,
3:06I I think last time we talked about the
3:09fact that like I literally wake up every
3:11day and I'm grateful that I have a day
3:13to now participate again in just living
3:16life.
3:17>> Um, I love exercising. Feel the breeze.
3:20Exactly. Um,
3:21>> I think the people who get too consumed
3:23with this is going to be a negative
3:25outcome, the irony is most of them, and
3:27this is the truth and I ask all of you
3:30to see if this is not true. The next
3:32time someone tells you some doomer
3:34story,
3:36see how much money they have personally.
3:39It it it's very correlated with they're
3:41rooting for this to happen. And I hate
3:43to say this, but I worked on Wall Street
3:45a long time and and I I just felt it
3:48from a very early age. It's a very
3:50entitled bunch. And they don't like it
3:52when people are making money in a theme,
3:54whether it's Bitcoin or whether it's the
3:56AI trade, and they have this doom gloom
3:58story that doesn't happen. And so the
3:59reality gets back to what I said, which
4:00is I've had fun this year and having
4:02conversations with people like you and
4:04people that don't try to drive it into
4:07how bad things are. Um AI is the most
4:09unbelievable technology. Every day I'm
4:12brainstorming with something and
4:13learning new things. My kids, which are
4:16embracing it, they're thriving. And so
4:18if you live in this world that
4:20everything is bad or that oh Bitcoin's
4:22going to break down and the Allen guy,
4:23the Allen guys just took over as like
4:25the number one podcast.
4:28You don't think that there's some reason
4:30that both of them came out there to go
4:32at a crowd that is loyal and fires up
4:35the waves and can get a million views?
4:37Of course they are. They're obsessed
4:39with attention and everything else. I
4:41was just thinking today when I looked at
4:43LinkedIn that all of a sudden Shamath is
4:45all over LinkedIn all of a sudden. So I
4:48just kind of watch as these people speak
4:50out and go through it. Now it's hard not
4:52to find me on podcasts, but that's
4:54because I enjoy doing these and I enjoy
4:56having the conversation. But I am
4:58limiting it to the people that I enjoy
4:59the conversation with. Now,
5:01>> have you read Psychology of Money?
5:03>> Uh, yes.
5:03>> It's a fantastic book and in it, um,
5:05there's some statistics behind why being
5:08a bear doesn't pay. That like over the
5:10long run, even though we see these
5:11corrections, being bullish on
5:13technologies and, um, and some of these
5:16investments at large really pays off
5:18because in the long run, we figure it
5:20out, we solve problems, that's what
5:22technology is intended to do. And um
5:24sure there are moments where you could
5:26get lucky and time the market, but for
5:28the most part you just really want to be
5:29long, especially technology.
5:31>> Okay, here here's here's a fact. Um
5:35you're too young for this. I can
5:37remember waking up and having a black
5:39and white TV that was really really hard
5:42to see what was going on. And I remember
5:44watching black and white TV shows that
5:47then all of a sudden one year would go
5:48to color. And now we have high def TVs
5:52that you can barely tell whether the
5:54people are standing in front of you or
5:55whether it's a screen. The reason I
5:57bring that up is that is the S&P 500. I
5:59I hate to tell people, but innovation
6:02and progress
6:03is what comes with the increase in money
6:07supply which comes in with the
6:09innovation and the ability for people to
6:11do this. And that's why even for the the
6:14very much um worried crowd about buying
6:18Bitcoin because the government is
6:20printing, this has been going on for a
6:22long long time, a lot longer than
6:24Bitcoin. And whenever I've spoken about
6:26this and I've said just go type in Marco
6:28Polo into an LLM and go see that famous
6:32pool game that we've all played at some
6:34point, Marco Polo of going through this.
6:36You'll realize that he got off the boat
6:38in China and was kind of the first point
6:41of
6:42money printing in fiat currency and that
6:44was in the 1200s. I think
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8:02Okay. I'm actually glad that you brought
8:03up the S&P 500 representing innovation
8:06because you you mentioned that towards
8:07the end of the last show that we did and
8:09I was going to bring this up a little
8:10later, but um but since we're on the
8:13topic, I want to push back only because
8:16um
8:17>> so Jeff Booth's book who you recently
8:19wrote about in your Substack, that was
8:21one of the big lessons for me of just
8:23how we live in this really wonky system
8:25that claims to be free market capitalism
8:27but really isn't. Technology is
8:29deflationary. It should bring prices
8:31down but the world we live in is debt
8:33based and we see the cost of living and
8:35everything going up because really it
8:36has to otherwise the whole system is
8:38insolvent right so what do you say to
8:40the criticism that you look at the S&P
8:42500 and you compare it to M2 money
8:45supply levels and really it hasn't done
8:48that well compared to how much they've
8:51been printing money and that's
8:52essentially where the money kind of
8:54funnels like is it really as much
8:55innovation as we would have seen if we
8:58had a hard money system let's say
9:00something like a Bitcoin that enabled a
9:03truly free market and allowed more
9:05innovation and more progress and more
9:07abundance especially to the average
9:09person.
9:11>> I I I don't the the the money supply
9:13versus the S&P 500 is not a good
9:16comparison. Um since the great financial
9:19crisis, the S&P 500 has gone up far a
9:22higher much higher multiple than money
9:24supply has. It's not even close. Um,
9:27we've been getting more leverage in
9:28terms of the money that's been going
9:30through in profits for capital. The
9:32paper I wrote about was actually on the
9:35labor versus capital
9:37>> Mhm.
9:38>> disconnect, which I think is getting
9:40worse. So, I said the S&P 500, but I've
9:43also said, and I don't know if I said
9:45this last time, um, we are at the end of
9:48the S&P 500's reign in my opinion. And
9:51it's not about S&P 500, it's about
9:53public companies. We're seeing more and
9:56more private companies grow very very
9:58rapidly and not need to go to the
10:00capital markets to raise money. They can
10:02do it on their own. And I think through
10:04tokenization this will only accelerate.
10:06Programmable money will make it easier
10:08for people. I mean I think about this
10:10with my own content business which is I
10:13want the community to be an owner in the
10:16business. I have always wanted this to
10:18be like a Justin Bieber story where I
10:20want them to be the people if they if
10:22the community is benefiting from what
10:24I'm doing from an education perspective.
10:26They're the best salespeople I have to
10:28kind of spread the word
10:30>> and that through programmable money is
10:32doable. I'm still wary of the regulatory
10:36side on what this all means and what
10:38could happen with the new administration
10:39and how they view kind of tokenization
10:41programmable money, but I'm getting less
10:43worried about that every day. So I think
10:45the S&P 500 and public companies are
10:47going through a very very difficult time
10:49now. So on the one side I think Jeff's
10:53story was good up until now. I'm
10:55actually not on the same camp as him
10:58because I believe we're getting a
10:59broadening out and a democratization
11:01through abundance.
11:03>> So at some point
11:06if you can all the capital of the world
11:08has already been printed and je I've
11:10never seen Jeff talk about this. You can
11:11bring it up next time you see him. Um,
11:14what is M2?
11:16>> And if Jeff was here, I'd say, well,
11:18define M2 because it's different in
11:19every country. It depends on how the
11:21government talks about the money
11:23aggregates. I view it as the total sum
11:26of assets, meaning right now we have
11:30globally, let's say 120 to $150 trillion
11:34of hard currency. We have close to a
11:37quadrillion of assets. That's the fiat
11:41Ponzi scheme.
11:42>> Mhm. But with tokenization,
11:45all of those illlquid things become
11:47liquid.
11:48>> Mhm.
11:48>> And so theoretically over the next
11:50decade to 15 years, if you can go buy a
11:52house with the e if you can go buy a
11:54coffee with the economics of your house
11:56immediately, not the house itself, but
11:58the economics. And I think people have
12:00to start to understand this because
12:01that's what we're talking about with
12:02tokenization. This whole tokenization
12:04versus equity debate of which I was on a
12:06panel on this week. the line between
12:08paying dividends and all this stuff and
12:10just having the economics of something
12:12which is what we've seen with hyperlid
12:14with these tokenized stocks with the oil
12:17price. I think everything is gradually
12:19going to become liquid and that means M2
12:21is going to massively go higher. So I
12:25think Jeff's history of the world makes
12:27sense to me. I don't think his future
12:29views are in line with mine. And I think
12:32going forward money supply is going to
12:34explode through tokenization, not
12:35through government printing. abundance
12:37is going to come through the
12:38deflationary side which is going to
12:39accelerate in the next five years
12:41because of AI and I don't think enough
12:43people have realized that we are going
12:45to have servants for us
12:48>> in the form of digital employees that
12:50work 24/7 so part of the reason that
12:52we've had kind of these inflationary
12:53pressures is the burden that we have for
12:56older people that comes through
12:57entitlements that comes through pension
12:59funds that comes through all we have to
13:00support those people so when people go
13:02we're killing the younger generation no
13:04the younger generation is going to be
13:06just fine fine, they're going to be fine
13:08because they're not going to need to
13:09work and not needing to work except for
13:12identity, except for ego, except for all
13:14these things which psychologically
13:16you're going to change. There's agents
13:17to do the working so that older people
13:20don't need to do this. And with
13:21humanoids, you get into the healthcare
13:22side and everything. So that's what's
13:23coming. And whether people believe it or
13:25not, I don't see enough people that
13:27think 5 years ahead.
13:28>> Okay. I want to unpack a lot of that. I
13:30just want to clarify though for the S&P
13:32500 and a money supply. What I meant is
13:34when you look at these charts and I for
13:36me it's it's been kind of like shocking
13:38to see some of them where the S&P has
13:41averaged like 10% especially ever since
13:44QE maybe like even higher than that
13:47versus the money supply has averaged
13:49it's just been that trickle that's
13:50consistent and averaged around 7 to 8%.
13:53So if you subtract the 7 to 8% from the
13:56let's say 10 to 13% average for the S&P
13:58500 you know you're up like 3 to 5%. So
14:03to me, is that is that as much as it
14:06would be if we didn't have this machine
14:07that was just like pumping all this
14:09money in? And we've got analysts like
14:11Luke Groman who have pointed out that if
14:13you actually look at the S&P 500 versus
14:15gold, gold has actually outperformed and
14:17they just keep debasing these dollars.
14:18So your gains are not real. They're more
14:20paper gains. So what do you say to that?
14:21>> Gold has not outperformed. That's not a
14:23true statement. Um unless you leave out
14:25dividends and total return and even
14:27after this year, that all changes. So
14:29that's not true. Gold and S&P have been
14:31around the same since the great
14:33financial crisis. Um, and gold has
14:35outperformed most equity markets around
14:37around the globe, not doing so well now.
14:40So again, I think everyone can pick
14:42their period of time to go to go
14:44through. Uh, the S&P has compounded a
14:46lot. It's created a lot of wealth, but
14:48again, like I said, the rest of the
14:49world's equity markets have not. So
14:51what's the difference between the rest
14:52of the world's equity markets and the
14:54S&P 500? The S&P 500 is innovation. It
14:57is all of the tech in the world. So
15:00again, I'm going to keep saying I I
15:02don't agree with any math people on
15:04this. They believe the world is going to
15:06end. And I think some of the people you
15:07mentioned believe this will end in some
15:09kind of whatever horrible thing. And I'm
15:12just saying to people that's not the
15:14case. First of all, how many times have
15:17people said that since World War II when
15:19it just hasn't happened? How many times
15:21have we heard about a nuclear
15:23everything? Now we've got the
15:24elimination of the human race from AI.
15:27Um when you take money supply, money
15:30supply has to grow with innovation
15:34until now. So since the great financial
15:37crisis, we had no debt accumulation
15:40whatsoever from companies. For the first
15:42time in the history of humankind,
15:45the biggest companies, public companies.
15:47So if you go back to when public
15:48companies started, there was never a
15:50time in history that the biggest
15:52companies on the planet did not take
15:54debt to become the biggest companies on
15:56the planet. That did happen with the Mag
15:587. They did not have to take debt. Now
16:00they've had to take debt now
16:03>> to fuel the next phase, but this is for
16:05life support for them. And I don't think
16:06it's going to work out. Like I don't
16:07think these companies are the best
16:09companies to own which is why I again go
16:10back to the United States of America,
16:14Europe, Japan. There's a lot of private
16:16businesses, a lot more than there are
16:18public companies. Public companies are
16:21about concentration of wealth. We are
16:23having a democratization of
16:25entrepreneurs. This is the world of
16:27entrepreneurs for the next 20 years. And
16:28so when people do their math, if you're
16:30following these people that tell you
16:31this ends in a math equation,
16:34>> you can disagree with me if you want.
16:36That's not what life is. It is not a
16:38math equation.
16:39>> Okay. So, let's talk about um your
16:41recent Substack and sort of this world
16:44of abundance that AI creates, but how
16:46does it actually impact workers? And
16:48let's talk a little bit more about that
16:49divide between capital versus the
16:52working class, the labor.
16:55>> So, this is um this is an important
16:58moment in time. Uh I the
17:02there's just sometimes where um two
17:05separate themes connect. So I'm
17:06definitely interested in lateral
17:08thinking at all times like two separate
17:10events when they connect on the same
17:13sometimes it's word. Most of the time
17:15it's some theme. In this case it's
17:17affordability. Um affordability is a
17:20major issue across the planet. Um a
17:22major issue. It's not just in one
17:24country. And so watching what's been
17:28happening in France and then listening
17:30to podcasts where not macro people
17:33focused on the debt but the people
17:35actually talking about what the people
17:38are angry about. So you have to separate
17:41the the narrative of bond yields
17:45politics and then get to
17:48I just want to hear what people are
17:49angry about and see if it connects with
17:52things that I feel in my building chat
17:54inside Williamsburg, Brooklyn, which is
17:56filled with younger people.
17:57>> Very similar things. And this is about
18:00we're trapped. We're trapped in our
18:03jobs.
18:04>> We're trapped having to go to work.
18:06We're trapped not being able to afford a
18:08home. And so our kids have to grow up
18:10here. It's all these things and it's not
18:12about inflation. It's certainly not
18:14about the depression because everyone
18:16has a job. This is more about this
18:19feeling of trap that I can't actually
18:20escape out of it. So in the same week
18:23that this France news I spent a lot of
18:26time just listening to what people were
18:28talking about and then you had the
18:30Microsoft news which to me did not get
18:33enough press. And I'm not really sure
18:35why. Microsoft has about 223,000
18:38employees
18:40and they made a public announcement that
18:42they were going to give the option to
18:4560,000 6
18:47>> that they could take a package and
18:50basically leave.
18:52We're talking at 27% of the employees.
18:56>> It's crazy.
18:57>> It it the thing that makes it more
18:59crazy, the average employee at Microsoft
19:01based on their compensation schedule
19:02about $400,000 when you include
19:04healthcare. you're talking about $24
19:06billion a year. Okay? Now, this would
19:08take their total amount of workers back
19:11to the same level it was in about 2020.
19:14Now, in that same money supply thing,
19:17the number one kind of connection back
19:19to money supply, nominal GDP ends up
19:21being topline revenue. So, you can have
19:24earnings that can grow faster. You can
19:26have stocks that can go up faster if
19:27profit margins grow. But the more direct
19:30thing is what are the revenues growing
19:31for a company because that should
19:33theoretically be fairly close to money
19:35supply at least nominal GDP. So if you
19:38take the revenue chart connect it to the
19:41amount of employees at Microsoft they're
19:43very much the same. But now what's
19:45happening is since 2019 2020 their
19:49revenues if they hit next year's
19:52expectations and they've been beating
19:53them relentlessly you're talking about
19:5570% revenue increase. So not a doubling
19:59but within a year it would be close to a
20:01doubling
20:03but their employees would be unchanged
20:05and that means that revenue per employee
20:07is going straight up and that is a
20:08direct labor verse capital issue. Now
20:12why is Microsoft doing that? because
20:14they have a lot of data center
20:16>> and the easiest way to pay for it would
20:19be from
20:21employees especially if AI's reached a
20:23point at the tech companies which it has
20:24where they feel they don't need as many
20:26employees because they have AI that's
20:28why I said that what ends up happening
20:30if you take this a step further the tax
20:33rate for individuals
20:35those individuals making 400,000 they're
20:37paying what 50 60%.
20:40What is Microsoft paying the government
20:42in corporate taxes? It's a much lower
20:44number. So that means who finances that
20:47burden, the government. And you end up
20:48with the government debt. So this is the
20:50Jeff Booth argument. It's just instead
20:52of it being spread over say 30, 40, 50
20:54years where they have to bail out
20:57companies like GM, GE, AIG when they're
21:00falling apart. Why? Because they have a
21:01lot of voters. We have to make sure that
21:03and so what do they do? They allow these
21:04companies to survive, finance their debt
21:06out. But these are zombie companies.
21:09they're actually inefficient which keeps
21:12prices at higher levels because they
21:13can't actually move the prices lower and
21:16so you end up with this trap that we're
21:18in. So, it's a combination of the labor
21:20verse capital, the debt at the cor
21:23corporate tax versus income tax rate in
21:25this. And I think we're reaching a
21:26boiling point right now. And if if I'm
21:29right, I think next year is going to be
21:30the year this becomes a much bigger
21:32story. And actually, I think this month
21:35you're going to see that Besson is going
21:36to have to do something in the bond
21:38market.
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22:35bitcoinway.com/natalie.
22:37I remember my first news job. I was
22:39making like 20some thousand. I didn't
22:41start putting away in my 401k when I
22:42should have. What's your argument for
22:45considering even having an IRA if you're
22:48a Bitcoiner?
22:48>> Taxes. You're going to sell off some
22:50Bitcoin and you're going to move it into
22:51dirty dollars or whatever currency
22:53survives the dollar and there'll be a
22:55taxable event for that liquidation. If
22:57you do it in a Roth, you could turn
22:58$5,000 into a half million and you're
23:00going to take it all out entirely
23:01taxfree.
23:05>> Okay. There's so much there. Um, so I
23:07mean really what you're saying to me
23:09sounds like the the wealth divide is
23:11going to continue to widen because the
23:12those who own the capital, they're going
23:15to benefit from everything happening
23:16with the AI boom. Meanwhile, workers are
23:19going to see basically potentially their
23:21jobs disappear. Um, so like how how do
23:25you how do you resolve that division?
23:28because arguably we are going to
23:30probably turn the political tides and
23:32usher in maybe policies that are more uh
23:35redistributive as far as the wealth
23:37goes, maybe increase in taxes. There's
23:39always like so much friction there. Um
23:41and yet we still never have enough money
23:43to pay for the things that we need. So
23:44like how do you think this is going to
23:46play out?
23:47So, let's think about how the system is
23:49going to have to change if I'm right.
23:51And if and I and I really do believe
23:53that the bigger companies are going to
23:54have to and and I talked to enough
23:57people on Wall Street at some of the big
23:59banks,
24:01all of them are talking about this for
24:03next year, meaning the spend out and
24:06where we are with the progress on AI.
24:08>> So, the adoption only started this year.
24:10The agentic side only reached the point
24:13in September, August arguably. So when
24:16you went through anthrop anthropics S1's
24:19um
24:21by the way I don't want you to forget
24:22the best in point so keep that in the
24:23back of your mind.
24:24>> I'm gonna go there
24:25>> because this this this will get this
24:27will get into it. Um I do think that
24:29people are underestimating how much this
24:31divide is going to grow. Now what are
24:32lobbyists? We've all heard of them.
24:35>> How do lobbyists work in an industry if
24:38the industry has no people?
24:39>> If all the voters are outside the
24:41company then it changes the lobbyist
24:43side. You can see how the the pillars of
24:46capitalism start to really break down if
24:48corporations. So, here's my guess as to
24:50what's going to happen. Let's assume
24:53Microsoft is now down to 1,000 employees
24:56and their valuation of their company is
24:58$5 trillion.
24:59>> Mhm.
25:00>> What do you think the government's going
25:01to do? It is impossible, as we've shown,
25:04to put a wealth tax on individuals.
25:08It's certainly easy to do it on a
25:09corporation, especially if the
25:12corporation isn't as important to the
25:15structure to the the who gets voted than
25:18the 200,000 employees that are no longer
25:20at the company. So, I think we're
25:22entering a very weird dynamic. And
25:24again, this all assumes that I'm right.
25:26And this is why I don't listen to macro
25:28podcasts nearly as much as I used to.
25:30I'm going to say I'm down 95%. And the
25:33reason is this. If someone doesn't use
25:35AI every day and they don't have a a
25:37clearcut
25:39conversation piece about AI, I can't
25:42listen to them because every single
25:44macro thing has the assumption that
25:46innovation will not accelerate and we
25:48won't enter a world of abundance and
25:50that's what's going to happen. So I
25:51think corporations will end up being
25:53taxed, individuals will get tax breaks
25:57and that's the way this is all going to
25:58play out over time.
26:00>> Okay. So why is Treasury Secretary
26:01Bessing going to have to step in?
26:04>> Because the downside of what we have
26:05seen this year, this is not what has
26:08happened this year is not what the macro
26:10doomers are saying out. Meaning, oh,
26:12we're going to have now everyone's going
26:14to default at the government level. No,
26:15we have a printing press. We have the
26:17ability to manipulate things. Bessence
26:20has tried now for he started in August.
26:24We're going to buy back more of the long
26:25end.
26:27Oh, it didn't work. Okay. Um, David
26:31Zuros comes in as as an adviser. He's a
26:34good spokesperson,
26:36but he's also a smart guy and I watched
26:39what he said in his interviews and the
26:42mentioning of the supply changing.
26:46This year has been and will be the
26:48largest of the concentrated debt needs
26:53of the hyperscalers. Yes. Everyone who's
26:56out there who's been told that every
26:58year it's going to get worse. That is
26:59not true. Okay, everyone. Not true. This
27:03is BS you're hearing again from people
27:05that are telling you, "Look at these
27:06charts. This is how big it's going to
27:07be." No, it's not all going to be
27:10through debt. Some of it's going to come
27:12through their free cash flow that comes
27:13back, especially on things where they've
27:15done the compute ahead of time and
27:17compute prices have only gone higher.
27:19It's just pure math. And guess who said
27:21that this week? Oracle.
27:24And what did Oracle's CDS do? I'm going
27:26to show it this week. Had the biggest
27:28decline
27:30since this whole thing started.
27:32>> So the debt markets have impacted the
27:35government needs and Besson doesn't like
27:38that because and Trump certainly doesn't
27:40like it because now home buying is being
27:43so they're going to try and keep trying
27:45to find a way to get yields to go lower
27:48which is good for Bitcoin and it's good
27:50for everything in the crypto space. And
27:51I think this again shows up that as this
27:54pressure continues for the buildout
27:56which will not end anytime soon. So uh
27:58the hypers scalers debt needs will
28:01probably peak in early next year but the
28:05rest of the Morgan Stanley the Goldman
28:08Sachs they're all going to need to raise
28:09money because they're all going to have
28:10infrastructure builds out for their own
28:12data centers. This was just the
28:14beginning of the compute needs, but then
28:15once everyone sees how the compute
28:17works, they all want to get their own
28:19open- source models there to reduce the
28:21cost. So, they're going to make
28:22long-term investments like Eli Liy did
28:24in other places. So, the pressure on the
28:26long end of the debt market is going to
28:28remain and the government, I think, is
28:29in a position where they're just going
28:30to have to issue debt on the front end,
28:33which means we're just going to get
28:34this, whatever you want to call it,
28:35yield curve control, but without it
28:37being this. And I think that's what
28:38we're headed for. So, what do you think
28:39about people talking about the stealth
28:41bare market in some of these stocks like
28:43the memory stocks going down and certain
28:45names where it sounds like I mean if you
28:47think that things are going to continue
28:48to climb, great opportunity for some of
28:50these equities.
28:52>> Back to the life example. If you have a
28:53bad quarter, does that mean it was a bad
28:55year,
28:55>> right?
28:56>> Okay.
28:56>> Well, especially when some of them went
28:58up like 400% like Micron, right?
29:00>> I I mean that's the point is that
29:01they're all up more than 100%. They're
29:04record numbers. Um, so you know, luckily
29:08all of my writings
29:10are out there. Um, and again, I wrote
29:13about this in May, June of last year,
29:16and I said the fireworks show is over
29:17and the AI midcycle slowdown is going to
29:19happen. Here's the difference. Um, I
29:22also when I said the fireworks show is
29:24over, the biggest negative of that,
29:26which I think will continue, and it's a
29:27very big positive for Bitcoin, there's
29:30no more easy money in the AI trade. And
29:32the first quarter of this year um the
29:35amount of hedge funds and mutual funds
29:36that played catch-up and then
29:38subsequently got caught in the
29:39deleveraging that happened from June was
29:42significant. Um every their job is to
29:44make money but again it's in a calendar
29:46year. AI makes a year seem like 5 years
29:49but to a money manager it's not like you
29:52know things change. They still have
29:55liquidity um profiles are exactly the
29:58same. We heard about private credit in
30:00the beginning of the year. When's the
30:01last time you had someone on about
30:02private credit?
30:04>> It's not as big a topic as it was. And
30:07the reason is that like the commercial
30:09real estate was after SVB, after COVID,
30:12commercial real estate was a big topic.
30:15But then over time,
30:17gradually there's oh, we'll sell this
30:19building off and you realize debt can be
30:21taken out over a very long period of
30:22time. It doesn't all have to come to the
30:24market at once. In fact, that's the
30:26biggest change that's happened. So, I
30:28think people have focused on the AI
30:30trade and they're using these big words
30:31like this has been a collapse. This has
30:34been a bubble. The reality is if you
30:36bought Micron a year ago, you're up 10
30:39times or seven times where it was and at
30:43the peak you were up 20 times, but there
30:45always needs to be some kind of pullback
30:47and everyone in Bitcoin knows that. So,
30:48>> right. Okay. So, let's go back to
30:50talking about something you said with
30:51regards to these agents are going to be
30:54doing the jobs for us and humanoids like
30:56in that world where you don't maybe need
31:00to work but you need money
31:03what do you do how do you get money
31:04because that's I think the interesting
31:06dynamic and um Jeff Booth kind of wrote
31:09about that the idea of maybe universal
31:11basic income Elon Musk has talked about
31:14that I think Elon Musk even said we
31:16don't we're not going to need money at
31:17all so like can Can you explain your
31:19views on that?
31:21>> So, I I've heard Elon talk about this.
31:22So, let's let's separate um 5 years, 10
31:25years, 15 years, and 20 years because
31:29for the next 5 years, um not only are
31:32people going to need to work, but we're
31:34going to have to deal with a lot of just
31:36constant chaos, the disruption for jobs,
31:39the disruption for what's gone on, but
31:41right now the unemployment rate is the
31:43lowest it's been in the history. Anyone
31:45who wants a job can go get one. The
31:47jobless claims by far the lowest on a
31:50population adjusted basis. It's the
31:51lowest anyway. But when you hear this
31:53thing about jobless claims, people
31:55should really realize, okay, hey, we had
31:57194,000 people claim unemployment
32:00insurance. Lowest on record. Yeah, it's
32:02the lowest on record. In the 1970s, we
32:05had what, one 120 million people as
32:08opposed to 300. I don't remember what
32:10the actual number is, but it's an
32:11enormous differential between where we
32:13were then. So, when you adjust it by the
32:15population, it's a very, very tiny
32:16number. So everyone
32:18>> who wants to work can remember what I
32:21said about the tax rate right now if you
32:23didn't have to pay taxes.
32:26You just got a huge raise.
32:27>> Mhm.
32:28>> I do believe that that's the way the
32:30universal basic income is going to start
32:32to happen is depending on how much money
32:34you have your tax rate is going to go
32:36down significantly.
32:38>> And that means that there will be this
32:40process that is probably easier than the
32:42wealth tax. Meaning, it's one thing to
32:44take money away from people by
32:46increasing their taxes. It's another way
32:48to have humanoids replace things, tax
32:50corporations, which then fund the
32:52ability for us lowering taxes on
32:54individuals. That is my guess in terms
32:56of what'll happen. And the reason I
32:58brought the 5, 10, 15, um, 20 I think
33:01it'll be a process. I do think that the
33:03rest of this administration,
33:05>> the key thing is to make sure that the
33:06AI buildout happens because it's a it's
33:09a war related issue, a geopolitical
33:12thing. And regardless of whether it's
33:13the truth or not, it it is going to have
33:15an impact.
33:16>> Number two, they have to make sure that
33:18the financial guardrails are set up for
33:19tokenization because
33:21>> democratization of access to
33:25AI, access to the financial guardrails
33:29to being an entrepreneur.
33:31I I think the mistake has been working
33:34for others. And I know this is a concept
33:36that in people's mind is the way that
33:38they were taught, but why do you have to
33:40work for someone else? I worked for
33:45effectively two places in my lifetime.
33:47I'm l I'm one of the lucky people that
33:49worked at two companies and that's it.
33:52I didn't like working for people and I
33:55certainly didn't like managing people.
33:58I'm an AI entrepreneur now. I have my
34:00own business. I have agents running for
34:04me 247 and not just in one. This is in
34:08multiple places now doing different
34:09things. And I can just tell you the
34:11empowering feeling. I've shown my son's
34:14text messages to me on my weekly video
34:16at times. It's impossible for me to
34:19describe what a junior in college is
34:22doing. And he's not a computer science
34:25major. He is just a kid. But he's a
34:28curious kid and he has the
34:30entrepreneurial mindset. He's the one
34:32that originally got me into crypto. So
34:34again, I'm going to I I'll say it again
34:36and again and again to people. The
34:37world's going to change so much in the
34:39next 5 years that if someone takes math
34:42and writes out what it's going to be, I
34:44just want you to think if you write out
34:47your life in a math formula, you have
34:50zero chance of knowing what your money's
34:52going to be like, what your job's going
34:53to be like. There's too many things that
34:55move around. And I think that's where we
34:57are with AI. It's totally unpredictable.
34:59But I definitely think labor versus
35:01capital is reaching a pulling point and
35:03that has been creating much of the issue
35:05and that goes back to the Jeff Booth
35:06point.
35:07>> Well, I mean, whenever I hear about this
35:09argument and this friction between labor
35:10and capital, I get so excited about the
35:12idea of Bitcoin because I don't think
35:14that there's any more accessible form of
35:16capital for the average person. Um
35:18because yes, I mean stocks, okay, that
35:20they've outperformed S&P, but truly for
35:23the people who are out there making ends
35:24meet, yes, Bitcoin's volatile, but you
35:27can acquire it at a dollar at a time.
35:29And there's very few things that are out
35:31there available to the entire world that
35:33you can do that. You you don't have like
35:35a kid in sub-Saharan Africa
35:38>> able to buy Apple until maybe
35:40tokenization, right? So like it is going
35:42to kind of crack open this world of more
35:44access globally across the board. But I
35:46still think Bitcoin will play a really
35:48important role. And I think I mean you
35:50agree with that, right?
35:51>> I do. And I and I'm going to bring this
35:52back. Um so I I I I'm very philosophical
35:57in life and I try to search for um
36:00sentences, phrases. We talked about, you
36:03know, my kids
36:04>> um before we we recorded and and there's
36:07a Ralph Waldo Emerson quote which has
36:10stuck with me forever, which is life is
36:12a succession of lessons which must be
36:14lived to be understood. And that was
36:15what I told my kids
36:18continuously starting with my first
36:20daughter when she needed a quote in her
36:22yearbook and that's what I put because
36:24it is a succession of lessons which you
36:26have to go through.
36:28>> Michael Sailor um really hit me hard
36:31with a a quote
36:33>> and he's his own worst salesperson as
36:35being bombastic and people not listening
36:37and I think he's got a tremendous amount
36:39of of genius in him and wisdom in the
36:42things that I hear. But he literally
36:44said multiple times in my ear, you don't
36:48find Bitcoin, Bitcoin finds you. Now, I
36:51want to expand this into crypto. Because
36:53again, my son is the one who got me to
36:56focus on crypto. And this is why in my
36:59head, part of the answer to your
37:01question about accumulating wealth and
37:04what it is, I I I'm this is not just
37:06about Bitcoin.
37:08The amount of people that I have met,
37:11police officers, firemen walking down
37:13the street in New York who come up to me
37:15like, "Hey, I want to talk to you about
37:17Ripple. Hey, I want to come." It is not
37:19just Bitcoin. It is a variety of things
37:22that they've been invested in probably
37:24since 2021, 2022, the peak. But here's
37:27the thing. If I ask them about it, they
37:30know more about that than anyone on Wall
37:34Street.
37:36Everyone, including my son, knows more
37:37about crypto than people on Wall Street.
37:39And this is the thing. If you go back to
37:41what happened to Michael Sailor with
37:42Micro Strategy,
37:44him recognizing that he no longer could
37:48compete against,
37:50let's say, the government debasement on
37:53one side, meaning moving rates to zero,
37:56but on the other side, the technological
37:58innovation, which was making his
37:59business obsolete from the Mag 7.
38:02>> Mhm. What I believe is going to happen
38:04is the reverse kind of of this, which is
38:07the crypto world, investing in crypto is
38:09going to make people a lot of money. And
38:10it's not going to happen on Wall Street.
38:12Partly because they're not allowed to,
38:14and partly because they haven't done
38:15their homework on it, and the equity
38:17markets are still somewhat attractive.
38:18Now, most of the S&P 500 is garbage.
38:22It's companies that have not gone up for
38:24a long time. I mean, go look at the
38:26total size of the home builders and the
38:28auto companies, Extla, and retailers. I
38:31mean literally just go add them all up.
38:33You're not even close to
38:36one technology company. So what's
38:38happened over the course of time is the
38:40market has moved to disrupting all
38:43businesses. And so crypto which has gone
38:46through its bare markets and this and
38:47that. Now we're talking about the
38:49capital system changing, capital
38:51formation changing, tokenization, stable
38:54coins, the whole money system is going
38:56to change and it's global. And that
38:58means that the people who adapt, who
39:00adapt to it first, just like with AI,
39:03are going to be the ones that
39:04financially benefit the most. So there's
39:05going to be a redistribution, maybe not
39:07of the existing money out there.
39:09>> But if every year money supply grows,
39:12and now to go back to Natalie's point,
39:13let's assume the S&P 500 stops going up,
39:16which is what I think will happen, but
39:18it doesn't go down. It just stops going
39:21up faster than money supply. And all of
39:23the growth of money supply is actually
39:25happening in nons&mp 500 world. Not the
39:30Russell to not public companies, but
39:32actually small entrepreneurs are making
39:34money and crypto investors are making
39:36money. Well, now you're talking about
39:38billions of people around the globe
39:39doing well versus very few. That is the
39:42world I envision happening because of
39:45the disruption of artificial
39:46intelligence and of crypto. And what is
39:49the common thread with the doomers?
39:51AI is a bubble. Bitcoin's a bubble.
39:54Yeah.
39:54>> I don't meet anyone who's like,
39:56>> I believe in Bitcoin, but I think AI is
39:58a bubble. I don't meet those people too
40:00much.
40:00>> But it sounds like you believe that the
40:02money is going to flow more into the
40:04private sector like these smaller
40:05companies, entrepreneurs, but I mean
40:07everything we see, the way the system's
40:08sort of set up again debt based is that
40:11it encourages these sort of monopolies
40:14to form and that's that's who gets the
40:15money through the Cantalon effect. So
40:17like how how will that break away and
40:19actually disempower those big
40:21conglomerates and massive public
40:23companies and empower the little guy?
40:26>> Oh, so
40:28a true entrepreneur
40:30true entrepreneur build something sees
40:33when it's going to stop and then moves
40:35to the next thing. That's a true
40:36entrepreneur.
40:37>> Wow. In a free market.
40:38>> Yeah. And that's what a true
40:39entrepreneur is. In a world where AI is
40:41your competition, Yeah.
40:42>> you have no chance of sustaining a moat.
40:45>> Yeah. A moat can't exist if it can be
40:47copied instantaneously. And we are at
40:49that point now.
40:51>> Any idea you hear, hey, could you
40:52replicate this? I want to sell I want to
40:54do this in Brazil. I want to do this in
40:56Africa. So what allowed the Mag 7 to do
40:58this is they had a moat on the
41:00innovation stuff. So AI disrupts
41:03everything. And so an entrepreneur
41:05realizes,
41:06>> hey, what's if I'm only going to get
41:08paid $150,000 to work at this company,
41:11>> I can't live in New York. But what I
41:13could do is build a business where I
41:15have 25 revenue streams each making
41:19$10,000. And you just keep creating a
41:21new one and a new If you don't think
41:23there's people doing that in AI, trust
41:25me, that is absolutely going on. And so
41:28eventually you reach a point I don't
41:29want to go into an office and sit there
41:31and have to go through this for $150,000
41:33worrying about my job where I can make
41:35$250,000 while I'm traveling the world
41:37and my business is working for me with
41:38AI agents. It's a very empowering
41:40feeling. Um, you know what you just made
41:42me think of is just the Shark Tank show.
41:44I don't know if we've talked about the
41:45Shark Tank show, but I see these
41:46entrepreneurs and they have this great
41:48idea and then they get it funded and I
41:50swear it seems like a lot of them always
41:53have this goal of I'm just looking for
41:54the exit. I just want to be bought by
41:56the big company. Like you see these
41:58great brands like Ciaté, they were
41:59familyowned and healthy. Then Coca-Cola
42:02buys them, changes all the ingredients
42:04and it's like it it's almost like our
42:06system turns out. It starts as a great
42:08small business company and idea and then
42:10it it gets gobbled up by the massive
42:13brand and then we lose it entirely until
42:16the next one comes around and it's like
42:17wash rinse and repeat. Whole Foods. I
42:19used to love Whole Foods. Now I go to
42:20Whole Foods. It's like bioengineered
42:22foods. Oh, cuz Amazon stepped in. And so
42:24I like I agree with you and the
42:27entrepreneur. I think that is always the
42:28track. I'm a I'm an example of it in the
42:30media world. But I feel like with a lot
42:32of industries like you get gobbled up by
42:34the people with the all the capital. all
42:36the mag sevens are going to gobble you
42:39up if you're successful and then you got
42:40to find the next entrepreneur and it's
42:42like I don't know I think a lot of them
42:44just want to exit with a lot of money
42:47again I'm going to tell you there's a
42:48difference so I'm I'm 59 years old I'm
42:51about to turn 60
42:54I will be spending for you to for us to
42:57sit down and talk the window of
42:59opportunity in New York is going to be
43:03May to October beginning at the end of
43:06next year. Now, then you can catch me in
43:08Utah for part of the year when I've got
43:10my ski boots on and I'm having a good
43:12time there. I will probably live in a
43:15different country for a month to six
43:17weeks of the year and I'll be in Maine
43:19for the rest. Now, to do that, I can't
43:22be doing what you're saying. Now, I've
43:25never been healthier. I have, as far as
43:28I'm concerned, hacked some part of my
43:31blood work and everything where I'm very
43:33very happy with um understanding more
43:35about longevity and what's going to
43:36happen. And so I wanted to get that in
43:39check and I also wanted to get my
43:41entrepreneurial life in check. Now, if I
43:44would have gone
43:46and decided right now to sell my
43:49business, which people have offered to
43:51buy,
43:53I'd be in trouble because then I'd be
43:54back in the grind of working for someone
43:56and I'd have restrict for the next 5
43:58years. You have to do XYZ. Now, would I
44:00get more money? Sure. Luckily, I have
44:03been successful enough monetarily that I
44:05don't need to do that. But for younger
44:08people, I don't think they're going to
44:10be driven by money the same way. And
44:13this is the problem is that I was out to
44:15dinner recently with someone who's a
44:17very smart AI guy. And he told me
44:19something about no, this is going to
44:21happen to, and I won't go through it cuz
44:23I don't want the person to know who I'm
44:24talking about. Um, he's very nice
44:26person, but they told me something was
44:28going to happen in this space. And I
44:30said, "Oh, that's very interesting.
44:32You're you're a credible person." The
44:34next thing out of their mouth was, I'm
44:36just hoping I can sell my business.
44:40And I got that point again of this
44:44person is a very wealthy individual, but
44:46they still care about the next whatever
44:48hundreds of millions of dollar of
44:50selling a business. And so I think we
44:53haven't stripped out capitalism breeds a
44:56lot of greed.
44:58>> And these are people that have already
44:59made enough money that they don't need
45:00the next dollar. I think tomorrow's
45:02entrepreneurs are going to be very
45:03different than what you talked about
45:04that were bought out by Meta or by
45:07Google and they created Instagram. I
45:09don't think you're ever going to get to
45:10that size again. I'm talking about the
45:12entrepreneurs that are doing it to not
45:14have to go into the office
45:15>> that don't want to work for people. More
45:17importantly, want to have the balance of
45:19life. You're stuck with Whole Foods.
45:22>> Okay. There's a lot of places like
45:24farmers markets where you can get your
45:25food. The question is, does it fit the
45:27lifestyle that you're leading with work
45:29and everything else and can you go? I go
45:30to the farmers market every week to get
45:32my food.
45:33>> You're lucky. Um I love farmers markets
45:35now. I mean it it's it's really
45:38interesting. I mean just just seeing all
45:39the change that's happened so rapidly
45:41over the last 10 to 20 years. Um not
45:44just in the companies that we see the
45:46major brands but in like our our
45:47lifestyle since co no longer working at
45:50offices. I mean disintermediating that
45:52whole commercial industry where you used
45:55to go in and you had to be there. I
45:58mean, I remember Michael Sailor saying
45:59he would not he would not allow people
46:01to be on Zoom. Like, that wasn't a
46:03thing.
46:03>> And now it's very regular. You could be
46:05anywhere in the world. I mean, I have
46:07employees who are in different
46:08countries.
46:09>> And so, that's very cool. Like, it, you
46:12know, democratizes a lot. But again, it
46:14leaves the question of, well, what are
46:15what are the people that were going to
46:16do that job or go into the office?
46:18What's going to happen to the office
46:19building? I see commercial real estate
46:21everywhere I go in every major city
46:23empty.
46:24>> I don't know who's going to fill it. and
46:26the only people coming in it seems to be
46:28like these big box stores or the you
46:31know the chain restaurants because they
46:32can afford the rent and so all of this
46:35like dynamic of sort of that K-shaped
46:36economy. I just I worry about that in
46:40between of like how is this going to
46:41resolve when I think the the way things
46:43are going is to make the poor poorer and
46:45the rich richer and I hope AI empowers
46:48the average individual but let's be
46:50honest most people are not using chat
46:51GPT at home. They're just not. It's
46:53what, like 2% penetration of who's
46:55actually using it. So, the average
46:57person I feel like isn't even taking
46:58advantage of these tools and they want
47:01someone to come in and save them.
47:03>> Okay. So, two things you said. One,
47:07Natalie, the worrier is back.
47:09>> I know.
47:10>> Okay.
47:10>> No, I'm not worried. I'm not worried.
47:12It's fine.
47:12>> Number two, there's only a few facts I
47:15know that I can guarantee will happen.
47:19No matter how young you are, you're not
47:22as young as the people who are embracing
47:24AI every single day right now. So, as
47:27you go up the demographic,
47:28>> Sure.
47:29>> age-wise, the 2.2% number you gave is
47:33really about older people.
47:34>> Okay.
47:35>> The adoption has gone up significantly
47:37and particularly with younger people.
47:39Schools are a horrible part of this. For
47:41you parents out there, I'm going to look
47:42at the camera. Do not let your school
47:45ruin your child's ability to use AI. It
47:49is a major major major problem. I I just
47:52saw a friend of mine who uh I hadn't
47:54seen for a decade and we were talking
47:57this person went back to law school
48:00and they're near 40 and I was asking
48:04questions very philosophical person and
48:06said so how is it to be back? Well, the
48:08really weird thing is when you go, you
48:11can't have any technology in the
48:12classroom. And I said, what do you mean?
48:15No laptops. No laptops, no phones.
48:19Now, when a school restricts, this is a
48:22bigname college in the US in New York,
48:24too. This is this is a law school, a big
48:28one, not allowing this decision they
48:31came up with. And I said to the person,
48:32this is the most ridiculous thing I've
48:33heard. Now I understand why because you
48:36can record everything and then AI can
48:38basically transcribe everything for you
48:40and you don't really need the professor
48:42and it's this whole weird thing but that
48:45seems more to justify the business side
48:47of things than it does actually helping
48:49the student which is really their job.
48:51So all of the things that you mentioned
48:53to worry about all the things that are
48:54happening
48:56again this is this is life. It's just
48:59happening at a faster pace. when I was
49:01younger and my father um you know he was
49:04a construction worker who was getting
49:06hurt all the time and
49:08>> I didn't want to do that and I I
49:11remember going okay I don't want to get
49:12electrocuted I don't want to have to
49:14siphon gas and suck it down again. I
49:16don't want to do all these things that
49:17he had me do to show me what it was like
49:19to be a core driller. So I was like oh
49:21no I'm going to take the easy job. Well,
49:22you know what that turned into me for
49:24Wall Street? For a while there from New
49:26Jersey, because I'm such an introvert
49:28that likes to be out way outside of the
49:30city, I had a long commute that got
49:32longer by the day. Not based on the
49:35distance, but by the people that just
49:37kept growing. So, it would take me, I
49:40want to say, 3 hours to three and a half
49:42hours of driving because I'm not a
49:44trained person. And that led to my hip
49:47hurting because I'm sitting far more and
49:50I'm using the and so I when I stopped
49:53working for anyone else and just myself,
49:56my focus was okay, I got to go to a
49:58physical therapist. I got to go do
49:59acupuncture. I got to do yoga. I got to
50:01do this. I got to get my hip back. And
50:03let me tell you something that it took a
50:05while for me to get my hips back the way
50:07they were. So I bring all this up and
50:09again that when we're talking about the
50:11money side which I know is important to
50:13people and I hear young people worried
50:15about it in the vision that I have with
50:17AI it is very disruptive for the next 5
50:19years because there's an adjustment
50:21period but every day that goes by you
50:23get more used to things
50:25>> and if your cost of an Uber dropped by
50:2880% which you're going to see with full
50:31self-driving autonomous vehicles right
50:34now in I mean you must have taken an
50:36Uber from the airport.
50:37>> Mhm.
50:38>> Was it expensive?
50:39>> Yes.
50:39>> It's insane to go from New York to
50:42Brooklyn at night. It's like $80. I
50:45mean, it makes no sense to me to go 20
50:4720 m or 20 minutes drive.
50:49>> Yeah. Know, I don't know if you saw
50:50this. I like got totally embarrassed by
50:52the robo taxi crowd because I was like,
50:54you know, Elon should come up with
50:56something where it's just everyone wants
50:58to get picked up in a Tesla anyway. And
51:00then eventually, obviously, there won't
51:01be drivers. But until then, just to like
51:03get the share of riders from Lyft and
51:05Uber, pay the drivers better because
51:07they really get underpaid. The drives
51:09are so expensive on Uber and Lyft. The
51:11cars smell bad. Okay, I'm sorry. They
51:12they really o um and and like the
51:15drivers are underpaid and I just feel
51:17like there's a huge opportunity to
51:19disrupt that. And people are like,
51:21"Yeah, that's robo taxi." I'm like, "So
51:23sorry. I've not been following that.
51:25It's not in my city." Okay. But um but
51:28no, I mean I I do find that fascinating.
51:30Okay, we're running out of time, but one
51:31thing I wanted to ask you, I asked this
51:32to Lynn actually, and so I want to put
51:34it to you. What's a story or a topic out
51:37there right now that maybe you're
51:38following that just has you so
51:40fascinated and you want to mention you
51:42hope people look into what is one that
51:45has you totally frustrated because
51:46people are maybe just, you know, getting
51:50something very wrong. the the the most
51:52interesting to me is the longevity
51:55aspect which I think becomes a major
51:56story next year.
51:57>> Okay.
51:58>> Um as someone who I really do spend a
52:02lot of time and I have for a long time
52:04on trying not to
52:07age uh to biologically stay the same age
52:10so that I can enjoy
52:13things later in life. And I do believe
52:15now as time went on. I started that when
52:17I was around 30. That's when I started
52:19to get a regular physical. And now I'm
52:21getting my blood work done four times a
52:22year and
52:25where we are and I've mentioned publicly
52:28that I think Eli Liy will be the biggest
52:30company in the world over the next in
52:32the next 5 years and
52:36the stuff they're doing right now with
52:39investment into AI and the intersection
52:41that's happening. I don't think enough
52:43people have thought about and I know
52:44very few if any macro people have kind
52:47of gone through this. What happens to
52:51Medicare, Medicaid, the entire health
52:53system if a decade from now we are
52:57curing all disease? What happens? So
52:59that is something that I highly
53:01recommend people start thinking about.
53:02The health care sector has started to
53:04outperform. When the dotcom bubble
53:07unwound and when the great financial
53:09crisis was a big negative for technology
53:11stocks, healthcare outperformed
53:13significantly. And I think that's going
53:15to be a much easier place for for for
53:17people to be. So that would be the place
53:19that I'm the most excited about that I
53:21spend the most time on relative to
53:23anyone else that I see. It's hard for me
53:25to find stuff on it is is really the
53:27point. And I understand why because uh
53:29most people have not spent enough time
53:31on health. In fact, the same people who
53:33say Bitcoin is a bubble and say AI is a
53:35bubble. You know what they also say?
53:36Eggs are bad for cholesterol. It's the
53:38same group. So
53:39>> now what was the other part? What
53:41>> what's one story that you're like, "Oh,
53:42this frustrates me." Like people are
53:43getting this wrong. Uh, it's definitely
53:46going to be the the the Bitcoin um
53:50quantum story. And I I'll say it from
53:52both places.
53:53>> Number one, it's very frustrating that
53:54the community
53:56that someone hasn't been a leader in
53:58this and kind of taken the front
54:03hasn't taken the wheel and actually been
54:04the spokesperson for it. Um, there's
54:07more smart people that are quantum
54:09focused and cryptographers. I'm assuming
54:11you've had Adam back on before.
54:14I I mean someone and maybe it's because
54:16that's not their natural side to be a
54:20let's say a strong leader in this, but
54:22the space needs one in the community to
54:24basically help fight off all this BS
54:28that happens in there. Um on on the
54:31other side, it's just very frustrating
54:33to um to talk to people in this bizarro
54:37way where they don't believe in Bitcoin,
54:39but they do believe that the S&P 500
54:42will continue to make money forever.
54:44Like there there's this thing about,
54:46okay, this has outperformed it, but you
54:49give it no chance to outperform going
54:51forward. And at the same time, you think
54:53all of your investments in the S&P 500
54:55will forever work. and my world of the
54:59private tokenization world disrupting
55:01public companies and that we're at a
55:02capital structure change which again is
55:04what Michael Sailor is talking about.
55:06That's the reason why I really like what
55:08Michael's doing. He's just not believed
55:11by anyone outside the space and then he
55:13got the community mad at him too I
55:15guess. So, uh we're in this weird world.
55:17That's the most frustrating thing for me
55:18is there isn't this natural
55:20spokesperson. It's kind of where you
55:21started off the thing where I enjoy my
55:24uh my time in the Bitcoin/crypto space
55:28>> because I really do think um I'm trying
55:32to be straight down the middle and
55:33trying to save it from the world needs
55:35this and the world is migrating to this
55:37and the story for me came from my son
55:40and to be honest with you that's really
55:42the direction that should happen with
55:43both AI and crypto is it should come
55:46from the younger generation not from
55:48people my age. Well, when people listen
55:50to you, they really feel the the breeze.
55:52Um, Jordy, it's been great to have you
55:54on. We'll have to do this again more
55:55regularly. Um, because people love you
55:58that listen to my show. So, thank you so
55:59much for your time. I will link your
56:00work, your newsletter in the show notes.
56:02And thanks for joining me.
56:03>> And always remember, it takes two to
56:06tango. This is not just Jordy. This is
56:08Natalie and Jordy. I'm on plenty of
56:10podcasts. It just seems like they like
56:12us.
56:12>> Good. Thank you.
56:13>> You got it.
56:14>> Thank you so much for checking out this
56:16episode. If you haven't already, make
56:18sure to subscribe and hit that
56:20notifications button so you never miss
56:21new content. This show is for
56:23entertainment and educational purposes
56:25only. Nothing should constitute as
56:27official investment advice, and you
56:29should always do your own research. If
56:31you haven't already, subscribe to my
56:32free newsletter, the
56:34newsblock.substack.com.
56:36And make sure to grab a copy of my new
56:38Bitcoin and Money 101 book, Bitcoin is
56:41for Everyone. My inbox is open. If you
56:43want to share feedback or guest
56:44suggestions, just reach out to us at
56:46info@talking bitcoin.com.

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