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Jonathan Anderson on Refashioning the House of Dior | The BoF Podcast — Transcript

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0:04Hi, this is Imran Ahmed, founder and CEO
0:07of the business of fashion. Welcome to a
0:09special episode of the BOF [music]
0:11podcast. It's Monday, January 26th.
0:14Jonathan Anderson's oat couture debut
0:17for Dior, which took place earlier today
0:20at the Musea Rodan in Paris, [music] was
0:22perhaps the most anticipated moment so
0:25far in his bid to re-energize the luxury
0:28mega brand. In December, I joined
0:30Jonathan in Paris [music] just as that
0:32collection was coming together to learn
0:34how he's reimagining couture as a
0:37creative laboratory that [music] feeds
0:39the entire maison, and to reflect on his
0:42journey at Dior thus far. [music] In
0:44this exclusive interview, Jonathan talks
0:46about why couture still needs to exist,
0:49how endangered craft can be protected,
0:52and the very human reality of leading a
0:54global fashion machine like Christian
0:56Dior. [music]
0:57Here's Jonathan Anderson on the BOF
1:00podcast.
1:02Jonathan Anderson,
1:04welcome to the BOF podcast.
1:06>> Thank you very much for having me.
1:08>> Do you know I I was thinking, do you
1:10remember we sat down for that
1:12conversation
1:14when you
1:16were just moving into your like first
1:19post LVMH JW Anderson offices? I think
1:22that was what year was it that
1:25>> used?
1:26>> That was in I'm trying to work out which
1:28building. I think that was in Shackle
1:29Lane.
1:30>> Yeah. Or something like that.
1:31>> And that was just when they LVMH had
1:34invested in JW Anderson. So that was
1:38>> that was 10 years ago.
1:39>> Wow.
1:40>> Yeah.
1:40>> Okay. So it's been it's been 10 years
1:43coming. We're sitting here in
1:47the space where
1:50typically you were doing your men's
1:52collections.
1:52>> Yeah.
1:53>> But now you're doing old couture
1:54fittings here as well.
1:56>> Yeah. And women's.
1:57>> And women's. And it's December
2:0116th.
2:02>> Yeah.
2:02>> So by the time this comes out, it's
2:04going to be many, many weeks later. But
2:06it's it was really cool just now to have
2:08a look through
2:09>> Yeah.
2:11all of your ideas and how you're
2:12thinking about couture,
2:15your first couture collection. And I I
2:17guess I wanted to start with
2:23when you when you're thinking about, you
2:25know, you have these 18 collections
2:27you're doing. You know, some of them are
2:28for Jonathan Anderson or JW Anderson,
2:30some of them are
2:32>> for for Dior. What what do you see as
2:36the purpose of couture
2:38>> first for you as a creative person
2:41>> and then also in this
2:45massive enterprise that is Dior like
2:48what's the goal or the purpose of
2:50couture?
2:51>> Well, it's the first if someone had
2:53asked me about a year and a half ago
2:56about couture I would have been like I I
2:59had never projected myself into couture.
3:02I never really understood it and I would
3:05have probably nonchalant would have said
3:09something like well I think it's
3:10irrelevant or something really I
3:13probably would have said something like
3:14that
3:16>> why
3:16>> because I I I I never really understood
3:19it. I never understood the glamour
3:20behind it. you know, there was there's
3:23always something very glamorous or
3:24something very kind of um at bay or
3:30something with the the idea of the
3:32hierarchy of fashion.
3:34>> And now,
3:35>> and now I have a completely different
3:38understanding of it. I feel like I'm
3:40doing I kind of joke every time I'm in a
3:42fitting. I feel like I'm doing like a
3:44PhD um in couture because I I have an
3:47amazing atilier and it's every day you
3:52are learning the process of something
3:56that has been done
3:58for so long in France. I mean it's it is
4:01a kind of it's an institution in itself.
4:04There's rules. there's um there's so
4:07many different things you can and cannot
4:09do and and in a weird way I was trying
4:13to work out how do I approach that or
4:15something or how do I how can I relate
4:18to it or something I I was at the
4:20beginning I found it very difficult to
4:21relate to until they did one dress and
4:24then I was like okay I'm kind of
4:25addicted so
4:27>> and so the purpose of couture like you
4:30know in the in the like reinvention that
4:32you're you're bringing to Dior like now
4:35that you've understood it a bit and
4:38you've seen the insight like how do you
4:39see it fitting into what
4:41>> you're doing here?
4:42>> Well, for me it's it's a kind of like
4:44it's a very emotional process actually.
4:47I find it quite emotional because I
4:49think it's sort of like
4:51it is something that is steeped in
4:52history and people who have been working
4:55for many many designers inside this
4:57house who are still here. So you in a
5:00weird way you have to go into kind of
5:01like like performative mode that yes I
5:04can do this and at the same time being
5:06like I'm totally confused
5:08>> like imposttor syndrome.
5:09>> Yeah. Um but I was trying to think about
5:12like you know couture itself and I was
5:15trying to work on how do we reframe the
5:18narrative of all of it and I was
5:21thinking of things I like in craft and
5:23what I have done in craft over the last
5:2510 years in my previous job and I was
5:27thinking couture is kind of like an
5:29endangered craft you know as a kind of
5:32as a mindset a mythology and making with
5:35hand and I was thinking
5:39Well, in a weird way, what Dior is doing
5:41and other couture houses, which there's
5:43not very many left are kind of
5:46protecting this endangered craft as a
5:49kind of national symbol ultimately of uh
5:53of making. And I once I kind of was got
5:57into that mind space then I was able to
6:00work out okay well what do I want from
6:01it or what is new for Dior ultimately in
6:05a in a kind of landscape that's had
6:08some of my heroes in it from you
6:12>> and so when you first
6:16kind of stepped into the atelier and you
6:19kind of were trying to figure out what
6:22you where you were going to start was
6:23there
6:24>> what was the first image or idea that
6:27was lodged in your creative brain that
6:30you that was what was the starting point
6:32basically? I think my my starting point
6:34was one of my dearest friends is Marilyn
6:36Leondu who I have worked with many times
6:40and for me
6:43I think her vessels for me are the idea
6:46of form and silhouette. And I was
6:49thinking like that is what Dior was so
6:51great at is in the silhouette like the
6:54the sketch.
6:56And um I have this like one vase that I
6:59like I love of hers which for me was
7:01always like a body and she always she
7:03always jokes and she's always like well
7:05for me that vase is like Naomi Campbell
7:07and I was like okay well what what is a
7:09dress that is a vase that ultimately is
7:11Naomi Campbell and what is that in in
7:14couture? So there was like this kind of
7:16So I kind of showed them this vessel and
7:18I was like I like the idea of it was
7:20pleated and it looked like it was being
7:23spun like as if like the movement of
7:25clay as you build it.
7:27>> Yeah.
7:28>> And it's I don't really sketch but it
7:31was the first time I kind of sketched
7:32something on a piece of paper very badly
7:34and I was like can we resolve this? And
7:37then it to finish it off like Dior, we
7:39put a bow on it.
7:43And that was
7:45that was about a month and a half into
7:47the job,
7:48>> right? And so that
7:49>> this was just before the summer.
7:51>> And so that shape or form
7:55>> kind of made its way into the ready to
7:57wear, the women's ready to wear, right?
7:59>> Which was like kind of midresolved. So
8:02it was quite interesting to see it like
8:04it's like cut and shortened,
8:06>> right? But the structure is not what the
8:09structure is in couture.
8:10>> Yeah. So what's the difference between
8:11the ready to version and the version?
8:13>> Inside the one in couture you have these
8:16tiny lines of tulle that are gathered
8:19which make this like kind of candy floss
8:22is what I would describe it as. And they
8:25build this very very light structure
8:26which holds the shape so that you can
8:28push it in and then it has memory.
8:32Um whereas the one that we had in the
8:34show was more done by Ben. So it's like
8:37a bit more of an industrial
8:39uh process and then it was done by
8:41machine pleading. Whereas this is hand
8:44pleading. So everything is pleated by
8:46hand onto the carcass of the shape and
8:49then stitched down to keep the the
8:52shape.
8:54>> And when I when I saw the twile of it on
8:56then I then I was like okay we have to
8:57open the the women's wear show with a a
8:59kind of shorter version of it. But I was
9:02like this is why
9:06Dior is Dior
9:07>> and this is why Dior couture
9:10>> needs to exist in a way
9:11>> needs to exist because they are
9:15practicing a skill that if we if you
9:18don't practice would disappear you know
9:20because I think what people forget in
9:22couture is that everything is done by
9:25hand.
9:25>> Yeah. So, and what has taken me a bit of
9:28time to get used to it is that by doing
9:30things by hand, things become a lot
9:31rounder, you know, like the seam is a
9:34lot rounder. It's less uh flat.
9:37Everything becomes slightly more rounded
9:40ultimately, which has taken me a bit of
9:42time to get used to. M and when you
9:45started meeting some of the people in
9:46the atelier some of them as you said
9:48who've worked with many of your
9:50predecessors
9:52what surprised you most about their
9:55skills the way they work you know their
9:58dedication to this craft I think what is
10:02interesting is it's like a kind of
10:03little mini city of people and like you
10:08have like the cheese shop and the
10:09butcher
10:11that's their little area So they stay in
10:14their own like someone who does flu only
10:15does flu. Um there is no
10:17cross-pollination. It's very like they
10:20take on a look and they look after this
10:22look through the entire process.
10:23>> So it's like super highly specialized
10:26>> like to the point where it's sort of
10:29certain things have to be given to
10:30certain people, right?
10:31>> You can't kind of go let's be crazy and
10:33move it around.
10:35So this for me was like it was quite
10:39interesting to meet all these
10:40individuals that were all had completely
10:42different personalities in very
10:45different buildings, you know. So you
10:46have like the historical
10:49which is above the store. Then you have
10:50like four other atilier that are doing
10:53like little camps of people
10:55>> and then you also have some of the like
10:57the embroidery houses and the feather
10:59houses and all. So you have all these
11:01different people that you they come in
11:03and then you're briefing on these tiny
11:06little swatches and then they become
11:09this, you know, it might be a fabric
11:10that I found and then we're trying to
11:12like can is there a mill that still even
11:15does it?
11:16>> Is that for you? I mean, you've worked
11:18with so many crafts people and makers
11:22>> and artisans over the year. Is it
11:26is it intimidating?
11:27>> Of course it was. I think I'm still
11:30intimidated until the show is done. I
11:32feel like a bit, as you said, a bit
11:34impostor. Like it's
11:37>> um I think people don't comprehend until
11:41you're there's not many houses. There's
11:44probably five or six houses in the world
11:47at this scale.
11:49>> Yeah.
11:49>> Then there's only so many houses that do
11:51couture. Yeah.
11:52>> Which is this other layer of
11:56um the world of a brand.
11:59So you it's it's um
12:03it takes time to uh in a weird way go
12:07into this ecosystem
12:10and you have to be able to perform like
12:13that which is uh very scary and quite
12:18intimidating but for me it's what I I I
12:22feel that I learned when I was at Lev is
12:24you have to start somewhere and in a
12:26weird way it's about progression. You
12:28have to learn through it and once you've
12:31if I go to work and it becomes a formula
12:34then you get bored and then you don't
12:35enjoy it. So in a weird way
12:37>> everything I do at the moment is for the
12:39first time. So it'll be the first
12:42couture. It's the first year is going to
12:44be everything first. So you're and
12:47you're meeting hundreds and hundreds and
12:49hundreds of people and they're trying to
12:52in a weird way grab a hold of this like
12:54running buffalo like I'm trying to grab
12:57on to it and stay on it. So
13:01it's it's it's for me. Yeah, it's
13:03incredibly int I think couture adds this
13:05other weird
13:07um and I would never really care but
13:09weirdly when you're inside the house I'm
13:11in Paris there is a kind of um it comes
13:15with a different thing.
13:17>> Did they ever did you ever come with an
13:18idea and they said no that's just not
13:20possible or are they're able to do
13:22anything?
13:23>> They're able to do anything. That's what
13:25there's never no there in a weird way.
13:28It was like for me it's nearly like
13:30cars. It's like here is an archetype for
13:33a brand new car and it it may never be
13:36able to go on the road but we are going
13:38to make it happen. You know I quite like
13:40the you know it's like in fabric you'll
13:43be like do you think we can reproduce
13:46this 16th century fabric? We won't be
13:49able to get it like this, but we will be
13:51able to do it like this. Or we will get
13:53a mill that can reopen looms to do it.
13:56>> That might be that must be quite
13:57refreshing. Yeah.
13:59>> As a creative person, cuz you hear no a
14:01lot normally, right? I
14:02>> And it's the one part of the business
14:03where there is no no because it's just
14:05about sheer creativity and making.
14:08>> Wow. So, it's very kind of like and we
14:10changed the the kind of um the calendar
14:14for it because I was just like I I
14:16cannot do a couture show in 30 days like
14:18it's just impossible. So, I was like
14:20let's change it into like a six month
14:22cycle. So,
14:23>> which is kind of the old way of doing
14:26things, right?
14:27>> And we just work on it like we, you
14:29know, for me it was like okay, this is
14:30we're going to do a project with
14:31Magdalene. I want it to be about form. I
14:34want to be about these three different
14:35things. Off we go. And in a weird way
14:40then you enjoy the look and through the
14:43process I'm enjoying kind of like
14:46rejecting it or embracing it or kind of
14:48do we want to add more? Do we want to
14:50take you know so it's a kind of like an
14:53experimentation for me. Is it going to
14:55be a lab?
14:56>> And and I think because of designers
14:59that have been there before like John
15:02Christian D himself,
15:04they have opened the door of this idea
15:07of like fantasy and I was thinking to
15:10myself like
15:12why why do people come to Dior for
15:14fantasy, you know, like but ultimately
15:16it was birthed out of the idea of
15:18fantasy. It comes out of a troubled
15:20period fantasy
15:22>> and
15:24and I think it's one of the DNAs of the
15:27brand. I think people go to it because
15:28they want something,
15:31you know, a bit romantic. They want it
15:33to be a bit over the top. They want it
15:36to be about fashion. So,
15:38>> so for me it's sort of like a it's quite
15:40petrifying because you're kind of trying
15:41to you've got this like back catalog
15:45that is like genius and then you're
15:47trying to
15:49a respect the codes of the house and
15:51then slowly bring codes to me because I
15:55think that's been the biggest challenge
15:57I think over the last year is dealing
15:59with like audience and a business and
16:02trying to be like I'm in a bubble but
16:05then at the same time I'm trying to
16:06listen to outside the bubble where
16:09you're kind of going the brand needs
16:11this in the moment. I think it's I think
16:13this is where couture has been kind of a
16:16bit like um
16:18uh an escape because it's sort of a bit
16:22more kind of where I can kind of sit and
16:25spend time in the evening going through
16:27the archive going through how do we
16:29develop every single fabric from
16:31scratch? How do we develop every shoe
16:34last from scratch? So
16:36that you cannot do in a month that takes
16:396 months.
16:40>> Right. You said just now a lab. Tell me
16:44more about that. How is it a lab for you
16:46as you think about this lab in the in
16:50the kind of wider Dior universe? Yeah,
16:53because I think we can run it over 6
16:54months and then what while we're kind of
16:56testing like weird and wonderful things
16:58like it can be in bags, it can be in
17:00shoes, it could be in a last, it could
17:02be bonding techniques, it could be
17:04hands, it can be so many aspects, but
17:07you might learn something through that
17:09and then you go actually we've we've
17:12opened all these looms now. we might as
17:15well use that into men's or and get like
17:20like utilize it because now that we have
17:23it, we can then we know that we can do
17:25that fabric. So, okay, we'll put that
17:27in. Let's experiment with bags that make
17:30are gestural bags that make no sense in
17:32the everyday world, but they're kind of
17:33an interesting object, but there might
17:35be something in hardware or
17:37construction. Okay, let's maybe try that
17:39into it. So for me it's more kind of
17:43uh a thought process that I think can be
17:46interesting.
17:47>> It feels to me like you've always kind
17:49of worked that way. Never with these
17:51kind of resources like you've always had
17:53this approach of like doing something
17:56quite experimental and then somehow
17:59maybe it turns into something that
18:00>> something that sells.
18:02>> Yeah. Um, but I think what is because
18:06you're in a weird way you're kind of
18:07like this allows in a weird way two
18:09blocks of continuity throughout the
18:12year,
18:12>> those two six month blocks
18:14>> where inside of that you have like two
18:16men's, you got two pre-colctions, you
18:18got two ready toear collections and then
18:20you have prefalls and capsules. So in a
18:24weird way it kind of for me this becomes
18:27the backbone of the brand.
18:29>> Yeah. And then it then breaks up the
18:32creative cycle. So, and that's why I
18:35think for me it's sort of going into
18:38next year, it's it when this comes out
18:41will be next year, but
18:42>> happy new year.
18:43>> Happy new year. Um, it's sort of it for
18:46me it's sort of nice to kind of start
18:49the I like to start a year as a year
18:52because in a weird way I came in midway
18:54in the year and it's really nice to go
18:56this is going to be like men's then
18:59couture then the women's then it'll be
19:02um the resort then it will be the
19:05woman's it means I can go through the
19:07cycle again.
19:08>> Yeah. But with um
19:13fabrics are mine or shoas are m you know
19:16like you're trying to
19:19um build your own library
19:22>> but what you realize when you're in a
19:24house like Dior
19:26you want to get them so that they're
19:28long-term things I want them you know I
19:30think
19:31>> in the way I had it start from nothing.
19:33>> Yeah. here. I'm coming in on like
19:36everyone has like a vision of Dior. Do
19:41you know what I mean?
19:42>> And that's this whole thing about like
19:43how much do you think about what people
19:47outside this bubble want and how much
19:49how much do you feel like
19:53kind of confined by the archive, right?
19:56And how much do you lean into your own
19:58creative instincts? I think for me,
20:03I think I had two months of this year
20:05where I was just like it was like kind
20:07of um being in a kind of sound cooker of
20:12information. You have like you're a
20:14looking at the business, you're b
20:16looking at like what you want to bring
20:18to it. You're kind of closing off a
20:19chapter in um in a brand that you're 11
20:22years. You're trying to uh I had
20:25rebranded and rechanged JW to be honest.
20:29We were trying to like put all these
20:32kind of components together and at the
20:34same time I was trying to think what do
20:36I do in Dior that ultimately creates a
20:40blank space
20:43and that's what the shows were about. It
20:45was it was to try to kind of propose a
20:48question to myself and pose a question
20:49to the audience which is like well what
20:51do we see Dior as
20:54>> you know um because I think as a
20:57designer I I don't I don't work in um
21:02for me it's not I will build a vibe or a
21:05a kind of culture around a brand but
21:08then
21:09everything will be different you know
21:12you will have bags and you will have
21:13core product that
21:16But the energy of a different
21:23>> how do you get the system to work around
21:25that when it was doing more of a um uh a
21:31singular kind of look. So you're trying
21:33to go okay well I want couture to go
21:34this way and I want men's to go that way
21:35and I want so that
21:37>> but they all also have to be
21:38>> they have to be linked. Yeah.
21:40>> So you're trying to work out how do you
21:43cross-pollinate all this so that there
21:44is a language that is built.
21:46>> So
21:48>> and I think it takes time. I think that
21:50I think that's what I realized with
21:51noise today is that um
21:58I know what is right because that's why
22:00I'm here to do the job. And you have to
22:02kind of in the morning remind yourself
22:04that
22:06you have to take the journey that is
22:09right for the brand that you're in, not
22:11for what is needed.
22:14>> It's very easy to hype something. But I
22:16think when you're dealing with structure
22:18and you're dealing with collection
22:20planning and you have to deal with that.
22:23>> Yeah.
22:23>> Because that is the real part. That's
22:25the realism. That's the stuff that no
22:26one wants to know about. But ultimately
22:28if you don't then you will have that
22:30bite you on the other side if you don't.
22:32So I'm trying to kind of
22:34>> with Deline work like put down like
22:38concrete blocks, you know, some will end
22:40up being sand and then you'll have to
22:42rebuild it. But you're trying to build
22:44solid platforms like industrialization,
22:48you know, different manufacturing back,
22:50you know, Delphine myself, we can bring
22:52a lot more knowledge on bags. Um whereas
22:56a ready toear house, not a bag brand,
22:57you know, so it's sort of I'm doing the
22:59reverse of what LE was. Whether it was a
23:01bag bag or putting fashion culture in
23:04this is me putting bags into something
23:05which has a huge fashion culture. So
23:08it's
23:09>> um and it's a learning experience. I
23:12mean
23:14>> so when we were looking just now I was I
23:16mean and maybe you can you just kind of
23:19walk us through the different elements
23:21because there were
23:22>> as I expected a whole bunch of you know
23:27uh looks.
23:28>> Yeah. But alongside all of those looks
23:30and some of the processes that you you
23:32walked me through, there were also
23:34one-of-a-kind pieces. There were bags.
23:36There was jewelry. Like the universe of
23:38couture, you've expanded it for what at
23:41Dior in a way. No,
23:43>> I was trying to think of like
23:46like when when I was younger, I was
23:49always there was these like books which
23:50were on designers, little small books
23:52you get in libraries and I was always
23:53obsessed by like Jean Paul Goier when he
23:56would do like a couture show. It would
23:57be like
23:59it was like an entire theme and it was
24:01like you nearly had to buy the entire
24:03look to get the vibe. It was like
24:05bracelets and shoes and bags and hats
24:08and mittens and and and I was thinking
24:11like in a weird way you're kind of set
24:14you know in couture today there is only
24:16so many people in the world can buy
24:17couture and this is not uh this is not a
24:21secret you know I mean there's a sort of
24:23there's always a pinnacle there's always
24:24a pinnacle in life so
24:27for me it was like well how do I get the
24:29same excitement of myself looking at
24:31couture of I say something like goier
24:33where it's like it's everything you
24:36believe in the editorial character you
24:39know it's sort of like it's got
24:42it's multiple components or it's just a
24:45dress you know it and so that's why I
24:48was like how do we get bag how do we do
24:50bags of couture how do we do jewelry and
24:53couture so like in like for example in
24:55jewelry I wanted to look at this idea of
24:57like using technology and looking at
25:00powder coating onto enamel onto onto to
25:04aluminum and then using found objects or
25:08precious things like we have meteorites
25:12that were found in Argentina and then
25:14those are going to be mounted onto like
25:17carbonized silver. So it's like looking
25:20at technology and then something in the
25:23outer world that we have no idea what's
25:25happening but then you have like cam
25:27like Roman cameos that are then mounted
25:30on to thing or you have portrait
25:32miniatures you know that are then re
25:36combined. So that was like something
25:37where I thought okay well if you're
25:39going to buy a piece of couture jewelry
25:41it should have some sort of like story
25:44behind it. Jine, that's sort of like I'd
25:47never touched a meteorite. Here was
25:48meteorites. We're going to use it. You
25:50know, it's sort of like
25:52>> it sort of it has like a kind of a
25:54talking point or like something you kind
25:56of like curiosity
25:57>> and it's still precious because I don't
25:59know about the availability of
26:01meteorites, but like feels like very
26:03very rare.
26:05>> They're rare, but they're not as they're
26:07not as crazy. Um like some of them can
26:09be. they're like this big, but when
26:11they're this small, it's, you know, it's
26:13not so bad. And I quite like that. It's
26:16sort of like
26:17>> there is a childlike curiosity in the
26:19idea. It's like I remember as a kid, you
26:21used to get these magazines where you
26:22get like stones in them each month and
26:24you would like you buy the magazine,
26:26they come with like a stone in it and
26:27then you would like collect all the
26:28stones. Mhm.
26:29>> So it was like for me it was like that
26:31was what jewelry was going to be about
26:32like you know like all these kind of
26:35like
26:37antiquities reformed into something and
26:40then bags became split into two parts.
26:42One was going to is to do with like what
26:45is upycling in a couture way do you mean
26:48like what what is that today?
26:50>> So it's like the reusing of raw material
26:53is one. Then there's like looking at
26:5618th century or 16th century French
26:58fabrics found where every single piece
27:02we have like when you buy the bag you
27:04get the history of that piece of fabric
27:06what mill it was made in if it was made
27:08in Leo if it was made in like a certain
27:11type of loom. So each bag comes with a
27:14kind of like a list of components of
27:16like the history of that textile how
27:18weird
27:19>> it's the provenence basically. Yeah. And
27:21I think in a weird way
27:24that's what I want to bring to it. It's
27:26like that's what I when I buy a piece of
27:29art or I buy a ceramic
27:31you're trying to find newness in
27:33something that is old or you're
27:35collecting something in period. So it
27:37was how do you merge that? So it's sort
27:39of like and we might learn something
27:42through industrialization and handmake
27:46of say the Lydior where we're kind of
27:48like we're going to take this textile
27:49and we're going to recondition it. what
27:52can that be in the bigger ecosystem of
27:54the brand start small and work out
27:56bigger you know
27:58>> um so that was a kind of like take on
28:00accessories and then you know shoes for
28:02me I wanted complete new last from
28:04scratch
28:05>> like where it was like we're going to
28:06like meticulously spend 6 months until
28:09we get
28:10>> that incredible curved heel that we saw.
28:12Yeah.
28:12>> And it was like for me Dior like you
28:15have Vivier who does these amazing shoes
28:19and I've always been obsessy. He always
28:20has he had this leaned um angled shoe
28:23and I was like, well, what happens if it
28:25was more modular? If it was like the
28:27entire back of a shoe is a heel.
28:30>> So theoretically,
28:32>> you know, someone could buy just a
28:34couture shoe or just a piece of jewelry
28:36or just one of those upcycled
28:39>> Yeah.
28:39>> bags.
28:40>> And I think there's a way then that you
28:42can enter couture on different
28:47levels. Do you mean some people don't
28:48want an entire dress? You know, some
28:50people want to have like an object that
28:53mean, you know, I was trying to work out
28:56how I would buy into it. I was thinking
28:57I would want like a really nice bracelet
29:00or I would want,
29:01>> you know, what would I as a guy want
29:03from it.
29:04>> Um, and I think this was the kind of
29:07thinking which was more about this like
29:09kind of
29:10>> eccentricities within couture and this
29:13idea of the nuance of it.
29:15>> Yeah.
29:17So another big change that you're making
29:20is with
29:22the interaction with clients and beyond.
29:26>> Yeah.
29:27>> Um how much did you think about the
29:29couture
29:31client as you did this? Like did you
29:34meet anybody?
29:35>> I went and met some of the bigger the
29:38biggest clients I have and I just got
29:40back from China and I met some more
29:42there. I met someone in America and I
29:44have been kind of like working out who
29:46else do I want to attract to the brand
29:48as well and it was just interesting to
29:50kind of think of different like it was a
29:53different mindset than I was like you
29:55know it was really interesting to speak
29:56to
29:57>> how was it different
29:58>> because they wanted it's either they
30:01wanted it for occasion
30:03>> a specific occasion yeah
30:05>> and they're thinking in advance like oh
30:07well I'm going to this thing and I think
30:09this would be or you've got people who
30:12actually just collect clothing,
30:15who are fascinated in the history of
30:17fashion and just collect clothing.
30:19And then there's newer people who have
30:22just
30:23started to un like it's like being part
30:27of a world like they they go in to do a
30:30fitting and they meet the Itilier. It's
30:32like a it's a whole kind of process. And
30:34the interesting thing on the first week
30:36of working here, I was when I went to
30:39the itilier, I was like
30:42they were remaking dresses like from
30:44like 57 or like the first Dior show or
30:49and I was like are they must be for the
30:51museum. No, no. What the amazing thing
30:53that Dior does, we will remake those
30:55dresses for clients. You can order a
30:58dress from a show
31:01could be 20 years ago, 30 years ago
31:03>> and we will make it for you still to
31:05this day.
31:06>> Wow.
31:06>> Which I and and at the same time we will
31:09repair
31:10those. So it's
31:12>> so is that a bit liberating in a way
31:14because if someone wants that archival
31:17thing that you don't have to recreate
31:18that
31:19>> you don't have to recreate it and at the
31:20same time it does give you a bit of a
31:22reality check. turned me that that that
31:25these things do stand the test of time.
31:27Yeah. You know,
31:29>> and then the way you're going to
31:30interact with clients and engage clients
31:33like this is more than just
31:35>> a couture show happening at the muse
31:37deod. It's a
31:39>> walk us through the whole thing.
31:41>> For me, the the show is the the
31:43silhouette, the idea, the fallacy, the
31:45dream. like here is it in a you know
31:4915minute ban
31:51which is for a reduced audience because
31:53of capacity and ultimately it's a
31:55fashion show. After that we then go to
31:58the straight after the show I go to the
32:00villa and I will set it up into cabinets
32:04and you will be able to see every the
32:07client will be able to see every single
32:08component and it will be laid out in the
32:10villa Dior.
32:11>> What is the villa Dior? Tell like
32:12explain. It's a space that they have for
32:14VIC clients and it's a a place where you
32:16can kind of you can kind of go there and
32:18get made you can get anything made and
32:21>> Okay. So, this is a permanent space.
32:24>> And what we've done is we have redone it
32:26more like a home setting and it's going
32:29to be but then it has like you'll have
32:31all the jewelry and cases. It will be
32:32more laid out like a kind of exhibition.
32:34>> So, this is like the Reesei in a way but
32:37a much more elevated one. M so it'll be
32:40every single detail or you know we will
32:43we will introduce the clients over like
32:45two hours where we can introduce each
32:47product tell them things about they can
32:48meet the people of the team so they can
32:51meet like Alberto or Yua or like all the
32:54guys and will you be there
32:55>> and I will be there and then we will
32:57kind of do the old school kind of like
32:59this is what
33:01>> this is what this is about and this is
33:02why it is what it is. Um we do that and
33:07then it will be x amount of days of
33:09selling and then in that period so we
33:13will have uh 11 looks will be then in
33:16the show venue. So that will happen for
33:18clients. So you have the the show, then
33:20we have the clients, and then we have
33:22the final part, which is the part that
33:24I'm most excited about. Um, and this the
33:27part that is new for Dior, is that the
33:30show venue will then turn into at the
33:32Rodan, the the show space will stay um
33:36up and it will then be turned into an
33:38exhibition which will be on Magdalina
33:40Dondu, uh, Christian Dior himself and
33:44the new um, couture collection. So that
33:48we will then do with school groups, we
33:50will do with art students, we will do
33:52with general public. Anyone can go, it
33:54will be free. And the idea,
33:55>> why would you sign up online or
33:57something?
33:57>> And you just go and see it.
33:59>> Why Why did Why did you want to add this
34:02third component? And why is it the thing
34:04you're most excited about?
34:05>> Because I think I was trying to kind of
34:07think about what I felt about couture
34:09before I got to Dior, which was like
34:11why? Um,
34:14and I was thinking that if you saw a
34:16dress that is
34:19taken more than 4,000 hours that one
34:22person has meticulously put together,
34:24you a photograph is never going to tell
34:26you that, you know, you have to kind of
34:28see it. And then I wanted to show my
34:30influence. I wanted to show that
34:32Magdalene is a huge inspiration for this
34:35show. you will be able to see what we're
34:37doing with her in terms of bags and in
34:39terms of other things that we will put
34:41on show and then showing
34:45from each time we will show from the
34:47archive different things. So this one
34:48will focus on Christian Dior. So it will
34:51have all the forms. It will be Magdalene
34:53and Christian Dior in conversation. Wow.
34:56>> And what I end up doing is kind of like
34:59a catalyst of that.
35:01>> So that then you'll see the sketches of
35:02Magdalene, you will see the sketches of
35:04Dior, you will see the sketches of mine
35:06and all mixed together. And then from
35:08that, so this is just as important to me
35:10as the fashion show because I think it's
35:12where
35:14there's only so much you can see online.
35:17And I think in a weird way, I'm kind of
35:19inviting
35:21people who want to go and see it to see
35:24something physical because it may change
35:27your mind, you know, it might change
35:29your opinion of it, you know, because I
35:31think it's sort of
35:33I think the great thing about Dior is
35:35Dior does a great exhibition.
35:38When I think of great exhibitions in
35:39fashion, Dior is very good at an
35:41exhibition. So why not exhibit something
35:44current as opposed to waiting till like
35:47what for a retrospective or something?
35:49So you
35:49>> because I think it's sort of like this
35:51is what clients are seeing and this is
35:52what you're seeing in real time. go and
35:54see it because now because I think
35:58>> you know it's like the opening dress
35:59that we were looking at where you have
36:01like
36:02>> layers it looks so simple
36:05>> as a structure but when you realize that
36:09underneath is going is like
36:12hundreds [snorts] of lines of tool that
36:14are all stitched together and then
36:15engineered in this way you will see that
36:18in the flesh more than you will see in a
36:21flat image on the catwalk the catbook of
36:24The catwalk can be a bit of a trick and
36:26I I I know because as a designer I have
36:28had to use that trick. You can use the
36:30set as a trick. You can use casting as a
36:33trick.
36:34>> You can hide many things. You can sell
36:36people a kind of flashoint
36:39>> but the clothing is not right. No matter
36:42what you put around it, it will no
36:45matter how much it
36:47in the moment. We're so used to fashion
36:50right now as we do shows, consume it,
36:53and that's it.
36:56>> And some people only consume that flat
36:58image
36:58>> and that's it.
36:59>> Yeah.
36:59>> And it's kind of weirdly I was talking
37:01about it with someone a couple of weeks
37:03ago in in real in depth [laughter]
37:06over a bottle of wine. Um, which is why
37:10I started in fashion. What what I loved
37:13about fashion when I was doing windows
37:15at Prada was that you would watch a
37:18Prada show and then we would have to
37:21work with like the team to come up with
37:23windows and then you'd have to then
37:26foresight the windows coming and in the
37:28beginning you would look at the show and
37:29you'd be like this is what is that like
37:31what is that and then like you would be
37:34selling the current collection they were
37:35trying to sell the current collection
37:36then you would be like slowly the new
37:38collection was about to come in six
37:39months and then you would be like
37:42Oh,
37:44I want that now.
37:46>> I think what has happened now is we we
37:48have we have kind of got into this weird
37:51habit where
37:53>> we do shows and everything for impact
37:56and bam to kind of win
38:00people's talking ultimately or like we
38:03like we hate we like we hate
38:05>> but we don't digest anymore. So we just
38:07like we kind of it's like near like
38:10that. You put it in your mouth and you
38:11spit it out.
38:12>> Yeah. It's like perfume. It's like, you
38:13know, like when the at the end like in
38:15the he gets eaten by everyone.
38:17[laughter]
38:18>> And but what I love about fashion for me
38:22was it's about the future. You you
38:24create something, people take time, they
38:28distill it, it goes in store, and then
38:30you discover it again. So for me this is
38:32a kind of a test weirdly to kind of see
38:36does it help part of like local or
38:39community ultimate to look at it in a
38:41different in real time.
38:43>> Yeah.
38:43>> To maybe go actually it was actually
38:45different but not everyone goes to the
38:46showroom.
38:47>> Yeah.
38:48>> You know what I mean?
38:49>> Well this helps people I guess they get
38:51that chance to digest it. It also makes
38:53me think of you know following your
38:56ready toear show there was that watch
38:58party.
38:59>> Yeah. And I feel like there's this thing
39:01hap I mean I know Italian Vogue is doing
39:03more of this in Milan as well where
39:04they're like
39:05>> this idea of fashion week just being for
39:09insiders and the kind of outsiders get
39:11to look at it on social media. There's
39:13this movement of like bringing more
39:15people in to see it the real bits of it
39:18because so much of it then just is
39:20consumed on the surface or understood at
39:23the surface
39:24>> but we don't go deeper. Yeah. And I
39:26think I think this is what um I think
39:30the learning lesson for me in the
39:32process of like
39:35and I'm at fault too because I kind of I
39:38kind of go oh well Louis was like this
39:41it was just was it was but then you
39:42realize you were there for 11 years I
39:45mean
39:45>> so in a weird way I'm expecting 11 years
39:47in one year but at the same time the
39:50audience is expecting of it like
39:53tomorrow.
39:54>> Yeah. and you're kind of like you're
39:57trying to grapple with where you want to
40:00go, what is needed for the business,
40:03where the audience is seeing it. And
40:04then there comes a moment where you have
40:06to just go into the kind of zen-like
40:09experience, which is what I'd said
40:11earlier, which is like I get up in the
40:13morning, I know what I'm doing, and it
40:16will be there will be good days and bad
40:17days. And I think that's what you start
40:19to you start to get a thicker and
40:22thicker and thicker skin through the
40:23process because you have to because
40:26>> you have to always be thinking what is
40:29relevant in 6 months.
40:30>> Yeah.
40:31>> Not right now. You know, it's sort of I
40:33think this is the trick. Um
40:35>> it it's also like a really challenging
40:37time
40:38>> for the fashion industry. So I think
40:41offering some more texture and more
40:43depth helps people to understand
40:46>> or being real about it. You know, I feel
40:49like a fashion has this thing where I
40:51think the audience see um
40:55me as a designer and you live this like,
40:59you know, you're a designer, so you turn
41:00up and it's like I don't know what I
41:02don't know what they think sometimes.
41:04But the reality of fashion today in the
41:08scale of fashion, the media pressure of
41:11fashion,
41:13um the the um the size of it, it's not
41:1810 years ago.
41:19>> No,
41:20>> fashion has grown like crazy. maybe too
41:23much
41:24>> and maybe and maybe there might be a
41:27kind of um reccaliberization
41:30but at the same time the audience is
41:33nearly kind of like our approach to
41:36Hollywood we don't care we just want the
41:37end product
41:38>> but at the same time I think we have to
41:40kind of um be more uh
41:46rational I think in a we have to kind of
41:48in a weird way as a system of designers
41:50and of brands as much as there is
41:52competition and there's like there will
41:55always be a sliding scale of things. It
41:57will but at the same time if we don't
41:59somehow
42:01unite behind it change is inevitable and
42:05it in I think we think change is just a
42:07new thing change has happened in fashion
42:09in big cycles like this before the
42:12difference we have now is the media
42:15exposure on it is ginormous.
42:17>> Yeah.
42:18>> It is part of the popular conversation.
42:20>> Yeah. So, but we forget that because we
42:23that's the whole point of fashion is to
42:25forget and keep going. Do you know what
42:26I mean?
42:27>> So, I think it's sort of I think
42:29sometimes I I I feel for so many
42:32designers because I I know what it's
42:34like to go through it. And I do
42:36sometimes go
42:38there is moments where you go,
42:41>> we literally saw you do take that deep
42:43exhale on video backstage because it's
42:45just so much. Right. Because I think I
42:48think for all designers in that season
42:51I have never it was nearly like
42:55it was the most bizarre moment of my
42:57life because it was like the the
43:00anticipation of something that you're
43:03only starting on a journey of the
43:06audience is only just about going for it
43:08and you're try and the pressure on it
43:11was
43:12>> it was that that kind of like release.
43:15>> Yeah. Because in the end, as much as I
43:17have to be like
43:20the designer, the like drive drive you
43:23in the end, there is a moment where when
43:26you are finished, it is that kind of
43:27like nearly handling an exam. You're
43:29like,
43:31>> well, you're a human, right? And I think
43:33I think in the online discourse around
43:36fashion and fashion designers and the
43:37fact that it's become part of popular
43:39culture, part of what's lost is the fact
43:42that all of these things that people are
43:45saying, all of all of these people
43:47>> Yeah.
43:47>> humans on like they're humans.
43:49>> Yeah.
43:50>> And it it's sometimes I know the
43:52pressure can be
43:53>> but it's kind but I live off pressure.
43:56This was a very different type of
43:58pressure. And the good thing is it is
44:00the it's quite good because it's like
44:02behind you. It's like a kind of like
44:04it's like okay we just started so we can
44:06move on from like
44:07>> you know control will be that still
44:09thing of the first of it and it will be
44:11a
44:12>> Yeah.
44:13>> But at the same time it it means I can
44:15just get on with the job you know
44:17because in a weird way it takes time for
44:20people to get used to things.
44:21>> Yeah. Do you mean like the I think when
44:23you look at you know so I remember when
44:26I did my first show at the movie people
44:28were so not sure about it. I definitely
44:30was not sure. I remember but like that
44:34took time
44:35>> and it took time and you know because
44:37that was a business that needed
44:38completely restructuring and I think
44:41people there is the bigger the brand
44:45you realize it is not just a designer
44:48there is so many components there's the
44:50people do the windows there's a CEO
44:52there's the finance person there's a
44:54there's a merchant like there's I think
44:57you know I was looking at this thing
44:58where it's like you know um uh one
45:02granny which I think is really good
45:03because they're kind of like they're
45:04celebrating the people create that's
45:06Olia's thing she does they're
45:08recognizing all the talent
45:09>> all the talent
45:10>> but at the same time I was thinking to
45:12myself like
45:14>> the other people that are part of that
45:16is like the people do the window and the
45:17people do the merchandising and so
45:19they're number crunching it may not be
45:20creative but they work in a creative
45:22business they have to try to work out
45:25>> how to make a designer's dream come true
45:29>> and it's sort of like that's where I I
45:31think we
45:33if we to pull the veil down, you have to
45:36do it in all categories because
45:38>> a fashion show is not just me. I am just
45:42the conductor. I have said this
45:44throughout my entire career and the
45:46every single person can have their own
45:48transparency on it, but you have to do
45:50that equally across the board.
45:51>> It's that proverbial it takes a village,
45:53right? It takes it takes a lot of
45:55people. The other thing I just wanted to
45:57touch on really quickly is what's really
45:59interesting is for the first time the
46:01Dior men's show
46:03>> and the Dior couture show are going to
46:05happen in the same space.
46:06>> Yeah.
46:07>> And that was that was that out of like
46:09pragmatism that you did that is it like
46:12you know are we trying to be more budget
46:15conscious or
46:16>> I don't think it was it was it wasn't to
46:18do about budget. It was more to do about
46:20like why
46:23why in one week should we make
46:272,000 chairs?
46:29>> Yeah.
46:29>> Why don't we just make
46:31>> a thousand chairs and use them both in
46:33two different contexts?
46:34>> Yeah.
46:34>> I think it was just trying to work out
46:36ways to focus
46:39utilize building a tent that the
46:41manpower that goes into it in a weird
46:43way like a theater.
46:44>> Yeah. You do act one, act two,
46:47>> and then act three because there's
46:48exhibition. Yeah.
46:49>> So you take it down and it kind of
46:51unfolds. I think it's, you know, I think
46:55it's very important that we, as we are
46:57all dealing with in every single
46:59company, no matter if it's fashion or
47:01not, the environmental part of it, you
47:04know, we have, you know, most shows that
47:06we do, depending on where they are, all
47:08that gets reused into the windows. And
47:10you know the the the ceiling for couture
47:12will then go to Venice for fine jewelry.
47:15>> So a lot of it's going to get reused.
47:17>> Yeah. Because the amount of work that
47:20goes into it like
47:21>> to make a chrome chair it takes 6 months
47:25to get it done you know like it's like a
47:27piece of furniture like it's sort of
47:29like you know like with the men the
47:30chairs that we're using in this are the
47:33chairs that we've been using for the
47:34last two shows. They've just been now
47:36chroned.
47:37>> Okay. So that already I've been able to
47:39get I will get four shows out of one
47:42chair
47:42>> right
47:43>> whereas in the past it would have been
47:45>> it would have been like bye-bye
47:47>> you know so I think this is where I
47:50think
47:51it's all each thing has to be a learning
47:55when you learn something then you put it
47:57into the system and it becomes part of
47:59your vocabulary and I think
48:03as much as everyone else is looking at
48:05it I am thinking about that every Hey,
48:07like you know what do I do to try to
48:09make it uh costefficient? What am I
48:12thinking to do it where it's
48:14environmentally friendly? How can I
48:17get
48:19more like younger people involved? You
48:23know what I mean? For me, like I've
48:24always believed inside the teams,
48:26>> especially in the web and especially
48:27here, it's like
48:29>> the younger the talent, the more
48:31opportunity, the more that younger
48:33talent can learn inside a brand like I
48:35did, then the better this industry will
48:37become.
48:38>> So for me, Dior is
48:42is is such a big kind of metropolis that
48:45it can have so many aspects of that. So,
48:48and this takes time and I think um and
48:52that's what I find exciting the most is
48:54that
48:56you have you have to kind of set out
48:58your your own kind of private vision for
49:02the future and then you cannot do it
49:05overnight. You have to guess slowly kind
49:07of be like, okay, we're going to sort
49:08this out and then we're going to get
49:09this
49:10>> and if it doesn't happen this season,
49:11we'll get it next season. You know, I
49:14think if we take that approach, then I
49:16think we can get to a better solution in
49:19the end. And I think with like when I
49:21look at back at my time at Lov, I think
49:24I think it's a beautiful brand. No
49:27matter if I was there or not, it's a
49:28beautiful brand. And I think Dior has
49:32that and you've got to kind of take it
49:35on to the future again. So you've got
49:38>> and you probably didn't know when you
49:40started at Lee where it would end up. So
49:42this is a journey, right?
49:43>> So I I have no idea and I think that's
49:46what I love about what I do. I think
49:48that's what all designers love. It is
49:49about in the end
49:53it is about creation.
49:56>> But I have to have the responsibility to
50:01the hund thousands of people who work
50:03here to make sure it works.
50:05>> You know what I mean? So I have to kind
50:07of bal it's a balancing act. So it's
50:10sort of like you're trying to kind of
50:12make sure that the customer that is
50:13existing who is loyal to the brand which
50:15has evolved over the years
50:18meets with my new aesthetic. And you
50:21don't want it to be like hot and cold
50:23water. You know I've I always have this
50:25like vision of like when I started this
50:29brand and then I started to work in it.
50:30It's like there's always this like
50:32Instagram video of like I think it's
50:34like two it's like salt water and like
50:36um
50:39natural water meeting and how they don't
50:41mix.
50:42>> You don't want that in store.
50:44>> Yeah. So like you have to be able to
50:45cater to
50:47the current client base which is why
50:49those meetings you had are important but
50:51you're also trying to cater to new
50:53clients who are trying to bring into the
50:54business. That's a fine balance right
50:56balance. So you're trying to keep people
50:57like slightly entertained. You're trying
50:59to keep this. You're trying to um But
51:02you have to do that. The brand Dior is
51:05is not the size of Louis.
51:07>> Yeah.
51:08>> It is, you know, Dior is it is a a is a
51:12big machine
51:13>> and it has a big audience
51:17>> that expects certain things from from a
51:19brand's
51:20>> heritage, you know. So,
51:23so you you become quite um
51:27uh it's very grounding the process I
51:31think you know because it's it's not
51:34>> um everything is a learning experience
51:36and I think that is
51:38>> can be tough on days I am only human but
51:42at the same time it is incredibly
51:43rewarding because you're kind of like
51:45you're you're you know it's like couture
51:47I have never I've never worked with
51:50tillia like that I've done that bags
51:52with it at it till of that of that
51:54scale. But in clothing I had
51:56>> I had a very good atilier but this is a
51:58kind of different scale.
52:00>> So let's go back to the very beginning
52:03because when you walked in to the
52:06atelier you had a meeting with John
52:10Galliano
52:11and
52:13>> he brought some cichlomen Yeah. flowers
52:16in and I'm curious if you tell us that
52:19story but also
52:21>> yeah tell us that story for
52:23>> so I had I I had finished the woman's
52:25collection and a week before the show I
52:30because of the noise and the nervousness
52:32of the whole thing I had asked Olivier
52:36do you think John would come to see the
52:39collection before I go and do press
52:41previews I would like him to see it
52:43because when I was at university. He was
52:46like a hero like he and still to this
52:48day as a hero and he is Dior in the
52:52public imagination still to this day,
52:54you know, because what he built was like
52:57this big, you know, in in the kind of
53:00rebirth of fashion because in a weird
53:02way after the 80s, fashion then suddenly
53:06became part of the popular culture
53:07again, you know, like it kind of just
53:09ballooned.
53:11So I was like, would he come anyway? And
53:14John very kindly agreed to coming. And
53:17when he turned up, I have I've only met
53:18him twice in my life. First when I
53:21joined Lefay and and then here and he
53:23came um with his wonderful boyfriend and
53:27>> Alexi.
53:27>> Alexi and they turned up and I just
53:32thought it was like I really loved him
53:35being even though this is not the
53:37building he was in, I loved him being
53:39back in Dior. Do you mean I I you know
53:42for me it was just like it was like it
53:45was like a kind of like I felt like I
53:47was like oh
53:49>> full circle moment.
53:50>> It was a full circle moment of being
53:52like a student and then looking up to
53:54him and still to this day look up to him
53:58and then he he came with these two
54:00bunches of cichl wild cichlemen that he
54:03had like kind of tied um black ribbon
54:06around and they were like perfect. And
54:08then he had this like bag of um uh food
54:12from Tesco, of like sweets and crisps
54:14and Doritos and things like that for the
54:17team. And we had this great chat and it
54:20was just it was a very kind of calming
54:24process in something where you're kind
54:26of like walking into something
54:30there's not many people would understand
54:33but him. And um and I because the the
54:38because these cichlmen I just I found
54:41them the most I love wild cichlemen when
54:43you go at like at you know about two
54:47months ago you will see it all
54:48underneath the forest floor
54:51and it's a plant that always reminds me
54:53of my childhood and then he he brought
54:56them and then they went into these two
54:57things. I was like they became this sort
55:00of like talismatic kind of thing that I
55:02was like I'm very superstitious and I
55:05was like okay that is the starting point
55:07for this collection as a kind of pink
55:10and black you know
55:12>> it was like
55:13>> it was nearly like a kind of like uh
55:17meant to be and then it became the the
55:20ceiling of the entire uh
55:22>> so like that show is uh the under of
55:26forest where they Bro, it's all in
55:28mirror. The invitation is an entire
55:31remake of the posie in a box but real.
55:34The head pieces are where like the we
55:37have embroidered all the flowers
55:39individually by hand. So they're like
55:41these kind of toughs. They're they are
55:43the gift and then you would put it on
55:45because what I love about John is that
55:48it is emotional. Everything is like a
55:51kind of an emotional jet. He he is when
55:55I have ever received flowers, the best
55:57flowers are from Jungalena. They are
55:59like perfect like everything is like
56:03there is an etiquette and there is a
56:06kindness and I was just so that's where
56:09it all started and I think
56:10>> that's amazing. It's like 360 for myself
56:15and it's and it's sort of um
56:19and when you meet a hero like that in
56:22the job that he did when you go to the
56:25museum and you see and every single
56:27person probably listening,
56:29you know, he changed fashion and and I
56:32want I wanted to bring him back in and
56:36you know, you need the advice from
56:37someone like that, especially in a house
56:39like Dior. Did he give you any advice?
56:42>> The the one line that I think was
56:44because he's John is incredibly
56:47intelligent was
56:49the more that you love Dior the brand,
56:53the more it will give you back.
56:57>> Interesting. What do you think he meant
56:59by that?
57:00>> I think it's the more that you love the
57:02people in it, the more that you give
57:03into it, the more that you kind of
57:05>> the more it will give you it will tell
57:07you what to do.
57:09And I think
57:12and I think I do use that like and
57:15sometimes you you need these little like
57:18you need these little tidbits of advice
57:20from people because it is daunting and
57:24you need these little things to kind of
57:26make you feel okay I am going in the
57:28right direction or maybe I'm not you
57:30know it sort of and I think it was a
57:34I needed to I needed to do that you know
57:36sometimes you have to do these certain
57:38things to kind of um
57:42actually just to just to be in reality.
57:46>> Mhm.
57:47>> You know, it's sort of like when you
57:49have this like mountain
57:52o of a creative like um Galliano, it is
57:57better to kind of confront it and be at
58:00one with it than kind of be petrified of
58:02it, you know. And um and for me, Dior,
58:06as much as Christian Dior started the
58:07brand, Dior for me when I was young was
58:11John Aliano. So, and I think for a lot
58:13of people it is, you know. So,
58:16>> it was great. It was a
58:19it was humbling in a in a
58:22>> it's a really beautiful moment and it's
58:25a beautiful sentiment and it feels like
58:27you have put a ton of love into this.
58:30>> Yeah. and you've made it accessible
58:33to so many more people
58:35um than would normally have been able to
58:37experience your couture. So, I can't
58:40wait to see the show.
58:42>> I can't wait to see it all come to life.
58:44I'm so grateful that you shared so much
58:47of that with me
58:49>> before the show and [music]
58:52>> by the time this conversation comes out,
58:54it will have been the collection will
58:56have been out in the world. [music]
58:57But um yeah, I I can't wait to see it.
59:00Congratulations.
59:01>> Thank you very much for coming. All
59:02right.

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