YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → Jodi Arias Full Interrogation

Jodi Arias Full Interrogation — Transcript

by Across the Table · 52,274 words · 9,233 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:02[Music]
0:10get you a bottle of water
0:28there's water
0:37[Music]
0:40it's hard to control the heat in this
0:42building
0:50do you remember me
0:51of course i do
0:54i traveled all the way up here
0:58come talk to you
1:00because
1:04you know i've been working on travis's
1:06case ever since it happened okay and i
1:08know exactly
1:10when it happened when he was killed
1:13i know a lot of details
1:15and just recently we
1:18found quite a bit of evidence
1:20and i'll discuss that with you
1:23the main thing that i'm looking for
1:25though is answers
1:27on why certain things happened why they
1:31went so far
1:32and
1:33also to get your statements okay
1:40a lot of details on this case that
1:42haven't been released to to the public
1:44and not even travis family
1:47and those details
1:49are known only by us
1:51and the person who did it
1:53okay and that's
1:55one of the reasons i'm here is because i
1:57believe that you know some of these
1:58details
2:00and i think you can help us i would love
2:01to help you in any way that i can okay
2:05um
2:07because we're here at the police
2:08department
2:09the sheriff's department here in uh was
2:11it siskiyou county that's what it's
2:13called okay
2:14um
2:15and you're considered
2:17uh under arrest or detained you're not
2:20free to go and i'm a police officer i
2:23have to read you your rights okay i'm
2:25sure you've heard them on tv
2:28you know
2:29i have to read them off this little card
2:31here but they're pretty much the same
2:32and i'll explain them to you as we go
2:34okay
2:36let's see
2:39this is july 15 2008
2:42correct
2:43yes let's see what time it is here
2:46it's 1001.
3:00okay
3:01we do have the right to remain silent
3:03okay anything you say may be used
3:05against you in a court of law
3:07you have the right to the presence of an
3:08attorney to assist you party questioning
3:10and to be with you during question if
3:11you so desire
3:12if you cannot afford an attorney you
3:14have the right to have an attorney
3:15appointed for you prior to questioning
3:18do you understand these rights yes
3:21and what i'm going to do
3:23is just ask you some questions ask you
3:25what you've been doing
3:27um you know certain dates what we're up
3:30to yeah um you mentioned you were
3:33traveling on some of these dates
3:35i want to kind of clarify some of these
3:38things
3:39and
3:40you know if there's a question that you
3:41don't want to answer you don't feel
3:42comfortable you can say no you know
3:45or you know you can elaborate as much as
3:47you want it's completely up to you it's
3:49at your speed i don't want to appreciate
3:51you just recording it all
3:53should we no i don't i don't know if
3:55there's a recording or something i don't
3:56know if these are voice recorders i
3:58noticed them
4:07yeah i haven't touched those or anything
4:09but uh okay
4:11um
4:15and they're not on so
4:17what i want to do is just get to the
4:19bottom of it everybody wants to know
4:22okay
4:23and
4:26you know so i'm going to ask you some
4:28questions you can voluntarily answer
4:29them if you want okay is that cool yeah
4:32yes
4:37there was some question about you being
4:41um
4:43well let's let's start with this
4:45what have you been up to since um
4:48since travis's
4:50death
4:51what what have you been doing
4:53um
4:55well i've been working
4:56i haven't been really working in prepaid
4:58legal there's not a whole lot
5:00um here in this marketplace which is
5:03it's kind of small right here it's
5:04smaller and really that could be seen as
5:06an opportunity um rather than
5:09a hindrance because that just means the
5:11market is untapped in a larger way so i
5:14could have if i wanted to but
5:16i have i'm kind of like a deer in the
5:18headlights when it comes to prepaid
5:19legal and i kind of i just have a fear
5:21of just
5:22approaching people um
5:25so i've been working at a mexican
5:26restaurant in the north end of town
5:28um
5:30i've been
5:35i've been kind of in a daze at least for
5:37the first few weeks
5:39um
5:42like everybody you know yeah um
5:45i know that a lot of people have been
5:46posting on facebook really nice things
5:49you know and memories and at one point i
5:52was like well maybe i should do that so
5:53i posted this thing and i just set all
5:55my memories and
5:57i realized looking back on it that it
5:59was kind of it kind of sounded immature
6:01it's more like my dear travis kind of
6:03letter
6:04and so i took it down because personal
6:06yeah some of it was detailed a little
6:08bit more personal not too personal
6:10nothing inappropriate
6:12just um
6:13i just
6:15felt funny i think because i'm a
6:17photographer i tend to communicate more
6:18of the pictures so i posted a ton of
6:20pictures that i had of him
6:23and i have a ton more that i just can't
6:25access right now
6:27and videos and things that i know his
6:29family would want but
6:33so i posted pictures and i took that
6:35down and i posted something last week
6:37but other than that i've been on
6:38facebook in myspace a lot looking at his
6:41profile looking at his
6:42pictures reading things um about his
6:46obituaries and um
6:48any news updates and you know there's
6:51legacy.com where you can write something
6:53about him yeah
6:55um i've seen a lot of those postings
6:59um
7:01i didn't realize until i actually spoke
7:04with ryan burns
7:06he he told the guy that's in utah and
7:08we've been talking a lot and we try not
7:10to talk about that because it's kind of
7:11like uh and plus travis is my
7:12ex-boyfriend but at the same time he's
7:14my friend so while i'm mourning my
7:16friend how do you talk to your new
7:18potential possible maybe person that you
7:20might start dating about your friend
7:22even though he was your ex-boyfriend so
7:23it's kind of a gray area i try not to
7:25talk about him too much but he comes up
7:27a lot
7:28um
7:31and it was through him that i learned
7:33that he said you know if you come out to
7:34utah things are really weird because
7:35everyone is everyone thinks that you
7:37could have had
7:38a hand i'm talking to a lot of people
7:40and
7:42everybody's pointed a finger at you
7:44i know you know everybody is saying
7:47i don't understand what happened to
7:49travis i don't know who killed him
7:53but you need to look at jodi
7:56and sometimes the simplest
7:59answers
8:00are the correct ones
8:02and that's one of the reasons i started
8:04looking at you a little bit closer
8:07and
8:08over the last month or so i
8:11i've gotten into travis's life
8:14talked to all his friends his family
8:16i got a really good understanding of who
8:18he is now
8:21and
8:22i got a very good understanding of your
8:24relationship with him
8:27and
8:28i'm kind of just putting two and two
8:30together
8:31well and it kind of matches
8:34so
8:35one of the reasons i'm here is to talk
8:37to you to figure out
8:39what was going on between you two what i
8:41know the relationship that you guys had
8:43was of convenience sometimes
8:46obviously you weren't boyfriend
8:47girlfriend anymore
8:49but you were still
8:51having a sexual relationship
8:54which
8:55does his family know about that
8:57just curious no his family doesn't know
8:59anything
9:01i just i'm interested in protecting his
9:04how he's remembered as well and
9:06you know he's he was very
9:09he was
9:10um well i'm sure if travis could speak
9:12right now he wouldn't care what people
9:14thought about him
9:15because they knew who he was
9:18okay a sexual relationship here there
9:21because the fact he was a member of the
9:22church really doesn't matter
9:26a whole range of things yeah
9:28i think in the broad scope of things
9:30that that could be right i just think
9:31that the reason i care about that is
9:33because he was adamant about that a
9:35couple times we prayed about it didn't
9:37work or we didn't stick to our you know
9:40our guns on it and um
9:42one time a girlfriend of mine just said
9:44why don't you just go to your bishop and
9:45talk and ask travis the same and i
9:47talked to him about it he got really
9:48angry he said i've already had problems
9:50with this in the past i'm embarrassed by
9:52it i don't want to go to my bishop
9:54and so
9:55we just kind of stopped for like a few
9:56weeks and then that must have been i
9:59think it was august and then it just
10:00resumed
10:03well the way travis thought by you know
10:05getting into his head and everything
10:06that he's written in his journals and
10:09um everything i found out about him
10:12he he truly had feelings for you
10:15and for some reason
10:18he felt that the relationship between
10:20you and him was somewhat unhealthy
10:23but he couldn't stop it
10:26and i assume that's probably
10:29maybe the same way you felt about him or
10:32it's maybe you didn't understand why he
10:34didn't believe it was healthy no i i
10:36didn't think it was healthy either
10:37spiritually at least and probably
10:39emotionally
10:40but mostly spiritually and i think that
10:42kind of once you have something that's
10:44not healthy spiritually it filters
10:45through all aspects of your life um it's
10:49it's one of the maids like there were
10:51three main reasons i moved back to
10:52eureka and one was i was in financial
10:54dire straits
10:55um i was not getting ahead it was not
10:58i just things were not working
11:00everything in arizona was like except
11:02for the wonderful friends that i made in
11:03my ward um
11:05and the opportunity it's like the mormon
11:07land of opportunity there which is
11:08awesome but except for all that like
11:10every sign was pointing just to just go
11:13you know
11:14you know i wasn't able to hold a job and
11:16that had never happened before um
11:20it you know too much of my
11:23my night life could was was about him
11:25you know he would text me and maybe i'm
11:27getting sleepy dot dot dot
11:29a bunch of z's and that was his
11:32code to like come on over kind of thing
11:35coast is clear you know
11:37so um you know and that was just i lived
11:40five minutes away ten maybe ten
11:43depending and it was just too convenient
11:44and too easy and it was fun and we had
11:46fun when we were together and so it
11:48wasn't healthy and i totally agree with
11:50that um so that was one of the re well
11:52financially i wasn't doing well i missed
11:54my family i moved away um shortly after
11:57high school and i come back to visit but
11:59i realize over the years i've missed out
12:00on a lot of things if my little brother
12:02and sister
12:04missed out on just
12:06their karate or their baseball or
12:09cheerleading or
12:12just whatever and um and my dad is
12:15not doing well
12:17he doesn't think he has very long to
12:18live but he always says that it's been
12:20that way for like a decade he's still
12:22here thank goodness um my grandparents
12:25aren't getting any younger and i just
12:27have an awesome family
12:29and i wanted to be able to just
12:32be here for a little bit and regroup um
12:34financially
12:36i owe my parents a lot of money and i
12:38owe my grandparents a lot of money and i
12:39owe friends money i owe
12:43i owe my um
12:45the guy that i bought a house with i owe
12:46him a lot of money he doesn't ask me for
12:48it but i intend to pay him back because
12:50he really footed the bill on the
12:53mortgage for a few months
12:55um
12:56and the third reason and i like to put
12:59this third because i like to think that
13:01second of those reasons i would have
13:02been strong enough somehow the third
13:04reason was to put a distance a physical
13:06distance between travis and i because
13:09i know that he really liked mimi and he
13:11said he did
13:12um
13:15he just
13:16i kind of felt guilty i mean i know they
13:18weren't dating but i just felt guilty
13:20somehow and i didn't know ryan at the
13:23time
13:24i met him in in march at um in oklahoma
13:26city and it was just brief and i
13:28remember seeing him and saying oh i
13:29really want to go say hi to him but he
13:31was surrounded by people and it was he
13:33was kind of unapproachable
13:35um he says he remembers meeting me too
13:37and it wasn't until zion my friend
13:40um
13:42texted me and you know i think i told
13:43you that and this is all laughter this
13:45is like broke up
13:52well
13:53it was kind of a mutual thing but i
13:55sort of more broke up with him
13:57um and i it was hard to do because i
13:59really loved him but i just realized
14:02that without trust you can't have
14:03anything and i had violated him is that
14:05the main reason you guys broke up was to
14:07trust the trust
14:09i think that
14:10not that the relationship was unhealthy
14:12because of the
14:14sexual activity but just that you guys
14:17couldn't trust each other i think that
14:19and this doesn't make it right i think
14:21that you know being a convert you know
14:23i've had
14:24i've i've been i've had a couple of
14:26serious relationships before where i was
14:28intimate with a few people
14:30and
14:33it's kind of silly but i used to always
14:35joke that um
14:37regardless of what the bible says and
14:39yes i'm christian i just live my life by
14:40the ten commandments and that's my those
14:42are my rules you know thou shalt not
14:45this or that but it doesn't say thou
14:47shalt abortion so i i just used to joke
14:49about that
14:50and that's it's a bad philosophy um
14:53i think that with travis
14:55um there was part there was a part of me
14:57that felt really guilty because there
14:58was something inside that thought you're
15:00you're you know this is nice for instant
15:02gratification but you're destroying what
15:04you could have
15:05with travis and that's why we we did
15:08pray about it and we're running out by
15:10his bed once and um
15:13and
15:15surprisingly he suggested it normally
15:17you know we would i would suggest that
15:19we pray before we go on a trip or before
15:21we eat if we're alone that was kind of
15:23unusual for him huh
15:25yeah because he was very resistant to
15:27prayer with me
15:28i mean i think in church it'd been fine
15:30and i feel that maybe because
15:33we were driving away the spirit
15:34constantly
15:36um
15:38or maybe he felt that by inviting the
15:39spirit he would feel guilty about later
15:42on in the evening or i don't know what
15:43the deal was or the excuse he used was
15:46because i'm a convert i need more
15:47practice to aim prayers he's like so i'd
15:49say will you say prayer he's like why
15:51don't you say a prayer
15:53um why don't you say it for everybody
15:54you say a prayer so we go back and forth
15:56and
15:57i don't know until i don't know it's
15:58just
15:59one time when i was on a trip with half
16:01at half a supine we were all getting on
16:03the road and
16:04i think dan it was with dan freeman and
16:06his sister desiree and they were all
16:08like um jody will you say prayer and i
16:10said sure and travis was like
16:14anyway i didn't want to argue with them
16:17so
16:18um
16:19anyway what was i saying well he's um
16:24you know the whole trust issue keeps
16:26coming back into my mind
16:28that was the name
16:29he was a he was a big time flirt
16:31and that's the one thing everybody says
16:33about him he flirts a lot um does he
16:36mean anything by it
16:37no not really that's just who he is
16:41um he did have you know girlfriends here
16:43there and he was at a point in his life
16:45where he wanted to
16:47really start settling down he felt like
16:51he needed to kind of grow up
16:54you know become a husband become a
16:56father
16:57you know those that time had come and he
17:00felt that
17:01the time had come and gone and he was
17:03falling behind he told me that too he
17:05said he felt um like his time was
17:08running out and i i told him
17:10that you know despite the fact that he's
17:12not going to be in a singles warden very
17:14much longer he still has a lot of
17:16options he's still a very eligible
17:17bachelor
17:18and he just didn't see it that way he's
17:20like you understand he's like that might
17:22be true but my chances are severely
17:24reduced once i turned 31. it was like
17:27this
17:28finding a good mormon girl you know was
17:32was difficult because
17:34in that church you know that
17:37most of the girls get married early 20s
17:40yeah you know he said he didn't want to
17:42marry a girl in her early 20s because
17:45he said that he noticed a lot of pattern
17:47the church with girls that married
17:48between 19 and 24 so to speak would
17:52would you know they'd start having
17:53babies and growing their family and um
17:56then they would look at their single
17:58girlfriends who are still having fun
17:59with their responsibilities and they
18:00would regret getting married and i think
18:02if you're strong in a church that's not
18:04so much a problem but
18:05yeah depends on who you surround
18:07yourself with too
18:09if you surround yourself with the right
18:10people you know
18:12it's a different story but you know
18:14that's where he was and did you guys
18:16ever discuss
18:18possibly getting married or anything
18:20when we were dating we did okay once we
18:22broke up
18:24he brought it up if he actually proposed
18:26to me a lot of times but he wasn't
18:29serious
18:30um i think he was he was
18:32serious once and it was when we broke up
18:36and that was really hard because we were
18:38on the phone and it was just like none
18:40of that stuff should be done on the
18:41phone anyway but i was hundreds of miles
18:43away
18:44and um
18:46i told him that i loved him we didn't
18:47say i love you during our relationship
18:49but we said it afterwards it was weird
18:50it's welcome
18:52i said you know what
18:54this isn't
18:55breaking up with him on the phone wasn't
18:57really the way i wanted to do it
18:59but it was kind of a situation that had
19:01just come to a
19:04point where it just couldn't be ignored
19:06anymore and
19:07let's move to after the breakup
19:09oh okay
19:10what uh
19:13what kept you in mesa at that point
19:18i actually moved to mesa a few weeks
19:20after we broke up
19:22really
19:23i mean as far as the timeline goes
19:25but
19:26i mean if you want to call it our
19:28official breakup
19:29shortly thereafter it's like we were
19:30still seeing so you guys were seeing
19:32each other but
19:33it was a long distance type relationship
19:35it was always long distance when we were
19:37officially dating we didn't we uh dated
19:39we dated from about the beginning of
19:41february to about the end of june
19:43so february march april made you about
19:45five months total okay
19:47in june 2007 you guys broke up and
19:50and then you moved to mesa
19:53um
19:54yeah i moved to mesa sort of
19:56most people when they break up they kind
19:59of go i know and it was and we plans
20:02were already in order for me to move
20:03there
20:04um i was already speaking with a friend
20:06who was
20:07you know
20:08was going to be her roommate and it was
20:10her roommate for a short time
20:12um
20:15she's kind of flighty
20:17she's a great girl though
20:19um
20:21i talked to travis about maybe going to
20:23southern california instead
20:25and
20:26he's really
20:28he's he's really
20:31persuasive it persuaded you to stay
20:34there mesa he's he
20:36kind of was playing up all the
20:37advantages if i did come to mesa
20:40and if i did you know um
20:42he said you know it's it's a great place
20:45we could still see each other and hang
20:47out on occasion
20:48um
20:49this church is very strong you know
20:51you'll make a lot of friends
20:53and i already knew all this stuff prior
20:55because i we talked about that
20:58um
20:59you know and so i went ahead and just
21:01made the move it sounded at the time
21:04like a good idea
21:06and you guys continued to
21:07kind of see each other at that time yeah
21:09at the time i was sort of living more
21:10across town over by greenfield do you
21:12know where that is
21:13it was up greenfield near broadway
21:15greenville broadway where the nearest
21:17cross streets and that's where the girl
21:18that i was originally talking with i
21:20mean i moved in with her that's kind of
21:22far from yeah
21:24yeah um the thing about her and
21:27just to give you a background of why i
21:29moved suddenly um she
21:32approached me the weekend after i got
21:34there and said hey she knocked on my
21:35door can i talk to you for a second i
21:37said sure and she moved in with her
21:38boyfriend um and they were engaged
21:41okay and she said hey i just wanted to
21:43let you know that scott and i went to
21:44vegas last weekend to tie the knot and i
21:46was like really she's like yeah we
21:47haven't told anyone but we didn't want
21:48to live in sin so we're gonna and she
21:51had already been sealed in the temple
21:52once and was waiting for her cancelled
21:54for her to pursue
21:57yeah
21:58so they were going to have a civil
21:59wedding um on a beach in oregon and they
22:01did that the following
22:03the following weekend
22:05she told me that on a monday or tuesday
22:07it was the beginning of the week and she
22:09said the reason i'm telling you that is
22:10because i'm getting married this weekend
22:13and i have to go out of town a few days
22:14ahead of scott you know make
22:16arrangements and now that he's a married
22:18man we don't feel it's right that you'd
22:19be here in the house yeah she said i
22:21don't want to inconvenience you but is
22:22there any way you can stay with somebody
22:24else or just find another place the time
22:26i was waiting on
22:27a house in gilbert because i already
22:29knew they were getting married so i was
22:30kind of looking anyway and there was a
22:31great girl named miranda
22:33and she was waiting on her keys for the
22:35mortgage to go through and it was a
22:36great award it was a great house it was
22:37brand new
22:39um construction and all that was really
22:41nice but she didn't get her keys for
22:43months and months i think she's in the
22:44house now but i don't know how to talk
22:46to her
22:47um so i scrambled i went to the
22:50institute i wrote down a bunch of phone
22:51numbers i called them all a lot of them
22:53i got voicemails um one girl that
22:56answered her name was tiffany and she
22:57knew travis and she was at his services
22:59in arizona and um
23:02as well and we've just remained friends
23:04sort of like on myspace and facebook and
23:06that kind of thing but she said hey
23:08sorry that's an updated posting i forgot
23:09to take it down but go to this website
23:11so ldshousing.net i went there i made
23:13three phone calls um for the places that
23:15were within my price range i didn't
23:17think to look where they were um the one
23:19girl that called me back her name is
23:20shannon daricott she said here's my
23:22place here's the directions go ahead and
23:24go out and come see the house that was
23:25available so we did
23:28oh go ahead you have to get that no okay
23:32um
23:33so i moved out there and when travis
23:34found out it was so close to him he
23:36freaked out about it
23:38and i made sure to check that it wasn't
23:41that that we wouldn't be in the same
23:42ward and it was within his ward
23:44boundaries but it was also within
23:45another singles board boundary so of
23:46course i'm gonna go the other one
23:47because it would just be kind of weird i
23:49mean
23:50i didn't know about him and lisa
23:53at first
23:54so
23:55i i don't know if they were even dating
23:57at that time i don't know what their
23:58whole timeline was
24:00um
24:00but it still would have been weird and
24:02it wouldn't have made changes during
24:03that time that he was seeing lisa did
24:06you continue to see him as well yeah and
24:09i didn't know that he was seeing her
24:10okay
24:11but he would call you and have you come
24:12over yeah i know there was a time when
24:15you i guess we're cleaning his house too
24:16for for extra money or something yeah i
24:19didn't hire you yeah i did that now
24:21because he knew that i was struggling
24:22and he
24:23he's like i've been doing the math and
24:25that happened pretty much right on i
24:26think it was started that started in
24:28august he's like i've done the math and
24:30i feel that i can be more protective
24:32um my time is more valuable than x
24:35amount of dollars per hour so why don't
24:36i pay you this per hour and i'll work
24:38and you can make a little bit of money
24:40okay so that happened that makes sense
24:42that was around the same time time frame
24:44was out the move
24:45it was like a few weeks after the move
24:47i was still living in
24:50with rachel over on greenfield
24:53before when that started
24:55and he sent me this picture and he's
24:57like this is your uniform have it by
24:59friday or thursday or whatever and it
25:00was this french fame thing i was like no
25:03yeah that's him typical yeah like i said
25:06he's he's a very flirty guy
25:08he is
25:10now
25:11obviously the rachel really um
25:14at least the relationship didn't work
25:16out and
25:17um
25:19and it was a time period who really
25:20wasn't seeing anybody and then mimi came
25:22into the picture
25:24um what did you think about her
25:26i didn't know a lot about her she seems
25:28like a really nice girl he showed me her
25:30picture on facebook you know i don't
25:32think she had a lot of pictures on there
25:34um
25:35he said that
25:37he's not sure why
25:39but he's pretty sure that she could be
25:41it and i was happy for him um i didn't
25:44find out about leaving this conversation
25:46you had face-to-face with him yeah yeah
25:48it was in his room
25:49um
25:50and he had his laptop you know just on
25:52his bed
25:53um
25:54i didn't find out about lisa until after
25:56we brought we had this conversation
25:57where we decided to all just come clean
26:00um
26:01and that was quite a conversation
26:03um because
26:04i was never unfaithful but there you
26:07know when we started dating that
26:09timeline around february
26:11the reason i remember february is
26:12because he had told me in december you
26:15know go date other people kind of thing
26:17and so i did
26:19it was january 10th that i went on a
26:22date with um my friend john
26:25for lunch we just might not have sushi
26:26nothing romantic happened we didn't hold
26:28hands we didn't kiss we think we hugged
26:31and i guess it was considered a date
26:32because he asked me and i accepted they
26:34paid for it
26:35um and that was in pasadena yeah if he
26:37pays for it today yeah
26:39that was in pasadena and the following
26:41evening i went out with my friend abe
26:43and we he drinks he just got like um
26:47a maker's mark i think this was his
26:49drink
26:50and i got cranberry juice and we just
26:52talked forever about it he talked about
26:53politics which is all these guys in the
26:54marine corps or sometimes they are both
26:56in pre-paid legal um john dixon is not
26:59in greek illegal anymore he's moved on
27:00to other ventures no but the uh the
27:02marine corps are they in the service at
27:04all
27:06he's a little bit older he's just sort
27:08of businessman
27:09has a background in
27:10i don't remember production and this is
27:12during the time that you guys were
27:14broken up or still kind of going i'm
27:16sorry this is before we started dating
27:18okay the reason i say this is because he
27:20told me a few times he told me during
27:21that conversation too that he's like you
27:23seem to have a very convenient timeline
27:25for when we started dating because i
27:26used to ask him like when did we
27:27actually start dating
27:29because i figured if we ever made it to
27:30a year we might as well celebrate
27:32um
27:33and he's like i'm not really sure and
27:34the reason i think it was february 2nd
27:37is because
27:39we
27:40do you know of chris and sky hughes
27:42okay
27:43um i used to spend a lot of time at
27:45their house
27:46and um you know
27:48their wonderful family and uh
27:51skye was
27:52she she's somebody that i really opened
27:54up to
27:55and you know um
27:58i told her a little bit how i just
27:59wasn't sure about travis at the time
28:02and i wasn't sure what's going on there
28:03and she wrote in this long letter or she
28:06didn't write a letter travis wrote the
28:08letter but she um kind of got on his
28:10case
28:11and and i was and they told me all kinds
28:14of things about travis that i wasn't
28:16aware of what kind of stuff are you
28:18talking about
28:19um
28:22they said if i don't get away from
28:24travis i'm gonna become just like deanna
28:27which is his
28:28ex-girlfriend um
28:32you know do you want to waste six years
28:33of your life waiting for him
28:36um because he can't come in
28:38he still tells deanna i love you and i
28:39was like what you know and that kind of
28:41yeah and i truly believe he he does love
28:44herself but
28:46travis has had a
28:48he's what you call a player
28:50you know what that means
28:53he kind of he just pulls girls down
28:57but he can't make a commitment
29:00he portrays himself to be a certain way
29:03but he's really not
29:05okay
29:06he portrays himself to have a lot of
29:08money he's not
29:10he's got a lot of things he told me the
29:12first night that i
29:14the
29:15sec the first night that i met him
29:17it was the second night he was at the
29:18mgm ground he invited me to this
29:20executive director banquet
29:22and you know he was kind of talking
29:24about what his earnings were the last
29:26year and how he almost made his six
29:28figures and that kind of thing and then
29:29he leans in and he goes in this business
29:31you have to show off your money a little
29:32bit and then prepay legal it is people
29:34want to see that you're actually being
29:35successful so
29:37you know he's done a good job it's about
29:39making money yeah
29:41um anyway what was i saying
29:43oh so chris and skye were just
29:46by the end of the conversation they
29:47started calling me deanna
29:49and i was just like shocked i didn't
29:50want to i just certainly the last thing
29:52i wanted how did you feel about that
29:55um
29:56my biggest concern was losing respect in
29:58their eyes because i really really
30:00looked up to them
30:01and i thought i would have laughed it
30:03off and i thought it was kind of funny
30:05but it might be but i feared inside that
30:07i was losing their respect
30:09um so when i talked to him next i was
30:12like uh you know
30:14what do i do what do i say and he ended
30:16up writing this
30:17letter to skye saying i just got off the
30:19phone with a very reluctant to talk to
30:21me jody
30:22you know
30:23and she wrote back
30:25saying something to the effect like you
30:28know i wouldn't want my sister to date
30:29you
30:30um
30:31why do you kiss jody in the dark and
30:33then act like you guys aren't even
30:34together in the daytime things like that
30:36that's a good statement
30:38because
30:40that kind of sums up the relationship
30:42that you had with him
30:43it seems like especially he liked you he
30:46loved you
30:47he wanted to be with you but he was
30:51he was reluctant to make a
30:53a commitment first off
30:56and truly he didn't think that you were
30:57marriage material
31:00and i don't know why not i mean i see
31:02you you're you're you're a wonderful
31:04girl you're
31:06you know you're struggling you're trying
31:08to to to make your way through life and
31:10i don't see why you guys couldn't have
31:12made it
31:13i think we're just we have
31:15we have very many different philosophies
31:17on a lot of plays um
31:18we would argue about the dumbest things
31:20and like he would just want me to admit
31:23that he was right and i would happily do
31:26that that's a man thing that's and i
31:28would if i should have just known better
31:29and admitted that i eventually learned
31:31how to argue with travis and it's my
31:32wife she's like okay fine you're right
31:34yeah eventually that's what it what i
31:37began to do with him it's like the more
31:38i just agree with him the sooner the
31:39argument gets over the sooner we can
31:41make up and the makeup was always great
31:43um
31:44but um there was so many times i just
31:46couldn't wrap my mind around what he
31:48would i could but but i tried to get him
31:50to do the same for me like there was a
31:52time when i broke down on the way to la
31:54once when i was going to watch chris
31:55hughes do a training
31:56um and this was january
31:59mid-january maybe of 2007
32:01and my my car got a flat tire so i had
32:04at the time roadside assistance because
32:05my car was still under warranty and they
32:08pulled they went to take the car and to
32:09change the tire and realize that when
32:10they sold me the car they didn't give me
32:11the wheel lock key
32:14for anti-theft there was wheel locks so
32:15i had to get a hotel room i had to get
32:17my car towed it was a big nightmare um
32:19and i was kind of hungry it was dinner
32:21time it was 7 00 38 and it was dark
32:24because it was january
32:25um
32:26the tow truck guy said you know there's
32:28a denny's two blocks down here and
32:29there's a jack in the box there and he
32:30was driving me to the hotel i said is
32:32there an ihop around because i really
32:33like ihop he's like yeah but it's kind
32:35of like five miles back in the other
32:36direction i was like okay he's like i
32:38can drive you there if you want
32:40and i was like
32:42he's like this short
32:44mexican guy and
32:45he seemed really harmless and i was like
32:47oh okay and he you know and i asked him
32:49about his life and he had a wife and
32:51kids and so he wasn't flirting or he had
32:54a girlfriend or something i don't know
32:55he's trying to be nice to you just being
32:56nice and so i ended up telling her and
32:58he didn't
32:59ever come on me or ever say anything
33:01inappropriate and then he drove me back
33:02and dropped me off and that was that
33:04and um
33:06and i got to eat and so i told that to
33:08travis and he didn't say anything at
33:10first but it got back to sky and sky was
33:12like why didn't you call me and then i
33:13think eventually that was used against
33:15me to establish a pattern that i do
33:16weird things like that
33:18so um that's something we had arguments
33:20about a lot
33:21was um he's like i just think that so he
33:23was truly upset with you about that he
33:26felt a little jealous but it i i
33:30he told me once that he's a little bit
33:31he was a little bit jealous when he
33:32found out that it went on those dates
33:33he's like but i know we're not dating
33:35and he's like yes i guess i am a little
33:37bit jealous but with these other
33:39incidences he said it just concerns him
33:42because he thinks that he thought that i
33:43would get myself into a situation where
33:44i'd get hurt because i have that sort of
33:47attitude and i was really
33:49since i joined prepaid i've been really
33:50trying to break out of my bubble and do
33:52things that are a little uncomfortable
33:54as far as i'm
33:57talking to people and you know i made a
33:58resolution this year to overcome
34:00a few fears that i have
34:02that i'm really scared of so i think
34:04that by getting into that a little then
34:06i can
34:08you know overcome some of that
34:10um
34:11but his
34:12he did act jealous but he wouldn't say
34:14he was jealous
34:15but he would tell other
34:19used oh people i guess it goes i may
34:21have told sky about that
34:23but they probably had a conversation
34:24with them and he probably voiced it
34:26conversations um i know that him and
34:28skye had a lot of fights and arguments
34:30and it was
34:31and i was the root of that a lot of time
34:34but i think you know
34:36all in all they
34:37especially
34:38more recently they got along a lot
34:40better
34:42i think she gave him a really hard time
34:43about our relationships
34:45one of the reasons he really wanted to
34:46keep it under wraps
34:51so
34:52you know moving over to
34:55his trip to cancun that he was going to
34:58um
34:59when did you first find out about that
35:01and he was going with mimi oh i didn't
35:03find i found out about that at his
35:05memorial services
35:07on monday
35:09it was the monday night memorial service
35:11you didn't know that he was going to
35:12cancun i knew he was going yeah yeah i
35:15know he was taking mimi i didn't know
35:17that i think that's awesome actually
35:18yeah well unfortunately mimi had
35:21called him a week or two before
35:24and i told him look if you want to take
35:27somebody else it's fine but i have
35:29something to tell you
35:30i don't look at you that way i don't
35:32look at you as a boyfriend
35:36if you want to be friends we can be
35:37friends
35:38and that really broke his heart i know
35:41um
35:42i mean he didn't tell me that i found
35:44out from his bishop afterward when i
35:45talked to his bishop
35:47and his bishop did say that travis
35:49really took that one hard and he took it
35:51to heart and he said he realizes that
35:54it's problem speaking from a bishop's
35:56perspective he said it's because you
35:58know mimi is is of a certain caliber
36:00when it comes to her spirituality and
36:01travis was just in another place he's
36:03struggling and that's something he
36:04struggled with for a long time
36:07well i feel i feel responsible for that
36:09party why do you feel responsible
36:11because i wasn't i mean i had moved away
36:13but i had participated with him and so
36:16many things that kept us both down
36:18spiritually for a long time i mean if i
36:20had just cut ties completely i could
36:21probably be married right now i could
36:24probably be working on my own family
36:26um
36:28what can i do with you what what kept
36:30you to him
36:33i don't understand
36:34well
36:35moving is expensive for one so once i
36:38was there i was kind of stuck there why
36:40do you continue to go back to him you
36:42know what he wants you know that it's
36:44not healthy
36:46but yet you continue to go back
36:48and it brings us to this point where we
36:50are now
36:54i mean
36:57i guess i
36:59i
37:00physically you keep saying it you knew
37:02that that it wasn't healthy and and
37:04you knew it was contributing to
37:06something that wasn't good but you guys
37:09continue to do it yeah and
37:11part of that part of my um perspective
37:14now has to do with the fact that i'm
37:16going through a repentance process that
37:18i've worked out with you know with my
37:20bishop and he's given me you know
37:22certain scriptures to read and ponder
37:24and pray about and
37:26it just it brings me back to where i was
37:29prior to all that
37:30um
37:31i don't know how much i ever really was
37:33there as much as i am now because even
37:35before i was baptized even the two days
37:37before i was baptized
37:40four days it was on wednesday and i was
37:42baptized on sunday um before
37:44thanksgiving and it was just like like
37:46travis and i were making out and you
37:48know that was prior that we hadn't
37:50gone all the way at that point but it
37:52was just too far
37:53and i called in that evening and i said
37:56i didn't it just it felt different the
37:58first few times was like hey that was
37:59great you know whatever
38:01and then it just felt different this
38:03time it was right before i was about to
38:04be baptized and
38:05you know i already had my interview and
38:08and so it was like
38:11it was just different and he said well
38:12yeah he's like i feel the same way and i
38:14think that's the spirit you know telling
38:16us this that or the other
38:17and so um
38:19i think that by driving the spirit away
38:21so much you just get into this
38:24pattern of
38:25of i don't know it was just
38:28it was convenient there was a couple
38:30times where i didn't answer his text
38:31messages and he would send me little sad
38:34faces or
38:36eventually he would wait and then he
38:37would call and he would call again and
38:39if i didn't answer he'd call three times
38:41and obviously you guys kept this
38:42relationship hidden from everybody else
38:44and uh
38:46because nobody really knew about it
38:48well there were some people who
38:51who i talked to and said yeah they
38:52continued to have a relationship even
38:54after they broke up
38:56and there are others who said who are
38:58saying that
38:59you had become obsessive with him
39:02to the point to where you would
39:04go into his house when he wasn't there
39:06or
39:06when you weren't invited and
39:09and he would talk to people saying
39:12she just kind of showed up and i don't
39:14want to tell her to leave but uh
39:17you know i don't want her here
39:19oh they were that was it must have been
39:21early on because there were a couple
39:23times when
39:24we established a rule early on just
39:26don't you know don't come over and left
39:28he said you can come over anytime but i
39:29need to know first he's like you just
39:31never know because you ran into somebody
39:33one time right did you run into like one
39:35of his ex-girlfriends as well or or was
39:37it deanna that you're in oh yeah um well
39:39that was i was that was okay that i was
39:41there he asked me to stay there and
39:43be with napoleon because that was during
39:45him uh conference general conference in
39:47october of last year um he took a road
39:50trip with some friends from his church
39:51to utah and um unless he's going to
39:54california he pretty much leaves
39:55napoleon
39:56at home
39:57and so he needed someone to be there and
40:01it's like i got full house privileges i
40:03could sleep in bed i could eat you know
40:05food i've talked to her and she said
40:07that was kind of an unusual kind of
40:09situation she didn't expect you to be
40:10there
40:11she didn't at all and so at first i was
40:13like well
40:15i was like did you give deanna any any
40:17you know flak over coming over
40:19unannounced because we had just said
40:21this rule and he's like i talked to her
40:23about it he's like but i'll tell you
40:24what i was on the phone for three hours
40:25with her she was freaking out that you
40:27were there
40:29and um
40:31i think the more that we use the more
40:33people knew about us associating the
40:34more stress we both got from it
40:37and so um
40:38it was just easier to try and keep it a
40:40secret and we we didn't always do a good
40:42job with that i think his roommates may
40:44have seen her on some things
40:46um
40:48but they were kind of keep to themselves
40:50types so we didn't worry too much about
40:52them
40:54there was actually one roommate john
40:55hefworth who ended up marrying
40:58remarrying his same wife and moved back
41:00to utah
41:01and
41:02he
41:03i was cleaning his house one day
41:06and
41:07john told me he's like you know
41:10travis is dating
41:12and i said
41:15okay
41:16and
41:17i assume he was you know going on dates
41:19and things he's like no he's really
41:20trying to date
41:22and um
41:24and i said okay and he's like he he's
41:27desperate to get married
41:29and i said i know that's true and he's
41:31like i just wanted to tell you that
41:32because i don't think he's being honest
41:34with you
41:35and i was like okay
41:36so that night um
41:38you know i confronted him about it and
41:39we had a really big fight it was also
41:42just a bunch of things were thrown in
41:43the mix together and and then we
41:46and and i
41:47he said listen i'm not dating anyone
41:50um
41:51but
41:52he was very angry at john for getting
41:54into his business
41:55um he told john
41:57in a very nice way i think hey
42:00i know that you have probably have good
42:02intentions but just you know
42:04mind your own business kind of thing
42:06and from then on
42:07john i don't think john really said
42:08anything
42:14and that was
42:16that was in october i think you've kind
42:18of given me a really good uh rundown of
42:20your relationship and
42:22um
42:24how you guys thought of each other and
42:25stuff and
42:26i was pretty pretty close to right on
42:28with my
42:29with my theory on how you guys you know
42:32why you continued to see each other and
42:34what was going on during that time
42:36um
42:37i think there's some other things that
42:38you're not telling me i think
42:40i think maybe you were
42:43the jealousy probably continued even
42:45after the fact that you moved away
42:47um
42:49for instance the uh
42:52was it the week
42:54of the
42:56first week of june
42:59you took a trip to salt lake city
43:02remember that trip we talked about oh
43:03this year
43:04i'm thinking back
43:07you had left i think it was like a
43:08monday
43:09morning june 2nd monday june 22nd
43:13morning or afternoon or something that
43:15came up late morning i think it was
43:16morning okay and you'd gone down to
43:18reading that rented a car
43:21where did you rent that car uh the
43:22writing airport okay do you remember
43:24what
43:25car company it was it oh i don't
43:27remember the rental company but i
43:29remember the naked model it was a ford
43:31focus
43:32yeah i got that from other people in
43:33utah they said you showed up in a ford
43:35focus it was white four-door
43:38no
43:39um
43:40cruise control
43:42i like road trips cruise control that's
43:44pretty good you don't remember what
43:46company it was
43:48uh
43:50i did was it was your credit card okay
43:53yeah i could look it up and so
43:56you took a trip and you decided to go to
44:00um instead of going over to utah you
44:03went straight out to los angeles area i
44:05went to santa cruz first santa cruz and
44:08then i stayed the night in monterey
44:10and the next day i drove to
44:12pasadena
44:13okay waiting for laura to call me back
44:16you didn't contact her at all uh she
44:18contacted me finally after i had already
44:19left out it was too late
44:27i was supposed to get on the 15
44:30and
44:31go all the way up
44:33and i somehow got off the 15.
44:36where did you end up
44:38um for a while i was lost and i'm not
44:41above sleeping in the car so i slept for
44:42a while i'm a heavy sleeper and i sleep
44:45a lot so but you were on the 15 for a
44:47while and you ended up getting off to 15
44:49somewhere yeah i i looked at a map and
44:51i'm pretty sure i know where i went
44:53i went can i drag him out sure
44:59because i eventually started seeing
45:01signs
45:02for phoenix and i was like and it was
45:04several hundred miles away still that's
45:06weird where am i going um so yeah
45:09california
45:10los angeles
45:12and
45:14um nevada arizona utah
45:18and i was supposed to go somewhere right
45:20up here
45:21oh i'm a lefty
45:23so the 15 kind of does one of these yeah
45:27goes through let's say las vegas right
45:29here oh yeah
45:31i'm sorry i'm i'm my mom that's okay
45:33that's okay so we'll just put just
45:35i know it cuts through our zone in the
45:36corner
45:37um
45:38las vegas um saint george somewhere here
45:44and then
45:48the 40 runs somewhere this way because
45:50somehow i i ended up on the 40.
45:53and when i saw the 40 i'm like
45:56the only thing i associate with the 40
45:58is flagstaff and flagstaff is somewhere
46:00in norwich use utah i mean north north
46:03northern arizona
46:04and so um
46:06and it was i was going east and i was
46:08like this isn't this what's going on
46:10here i just i wasn't going the right way
46:11and so i
46:14um
46:15i've had for the last two years i've had
46:18a car that has a gps system in it it's
46:20really good and um
46:22it i think it's cert it hasn't served me
46:25as far as getting a sense of direction
46:27when i moved to palm desert and you kind
46:29of rely on it a little too much too much
46:31in fact
46:32when i moved when i moved in with
46:35the last place i lived in arizona i did
46:36not know how close it was to travis i
46:39didn't realize
46:40um i have a very bad sense of direction
46:43and it wasn't until
46:46i began to i used my gps the whole time
46:48i was there pretty much just to find
46:50things
46:51um
46:52anyway so i got back
46:55i looked at the map quest that i know i
46:57had not twisted a bunch of places i was
46:58maybe going to go to death valley um i
47:00was maybe did you actually cross over
47:02into arizona is that how far you went i
47:04crossed over twice i think my map was
47:07wrong because the 93 goes north and then
47:09i hit the 15 again
47:11and then i got here and then i hit
47:12arizona
47:14and then went here
47:17somehow i got north on the 93
47:19and then i hit the 15.
47:22so
47:23i mean i don't know where phoenix is
47:24mesa it's got to be over here yeah i
47:26didn't go anywhere near there
47:28so you you took this trip and
47:31you left on
47:33was it monday
47:35the second
47:38right
47:40and you didn't get to utah
47:42until
47:44thursday you told me yeah i got to use
47:46on thursday so thursday
47:48and that's the
47:50fifth
47:52yeah i think so
47:54monday that's tuesday wednesday thursday
47:58okay so we have
48:01it's like 48 hours there that well
48:04obviously three days but
48:06there's plenty there's 48 hours so this
48:08trip took you a little over 48 hours so
48:11um
48:13i have a problem with this trip
48:15well i went first too
48:17yeah i know you went down here i mean
48:19obviously
48:21myrika
48:23right there
48:24beautiful little place here except it's
48:26kind of smoky
48:27you can't see the views
48:29i was hoping to see some mountains but
48:31you really should see mount shasta
48:34i've gone over this trip over and over
48:36in my mind
48:37and on paper
48:40and
48:41even if
48:43there's still 20 some odd hours
48:47even if you pulled over to sleep
48:50a couple of times oh did i tell you that
48:53i got stranded yeah okay you mentioned
48:56that
48:56if you slept for 10 hours
48:58i only slept here and here
49:01it would still leave
49:0418 some odd hours
49:07for something else okay
49:10this is what people are focusing on is
49:12this trip
49:13that you took because they're saying she
49:15left
49:16she didn't get to till thursday
49:22wednesday
49:24so travis was killed
49:31i did not go near his house isn't there
49:34either i pulled your cell records
49:36your cell phone was turned off
49:39between here
49:41and here
49:43okay but
49:45the last place that pulled it
49:49was here
49:51the next place it turned on
49:53was here
49:55what does that show me oh well i began
49:58oh no no
50:00is there plenty of time for you to do
50:01that yes
50:03and i do i believe that you
50:06had come to visit travis yes
50:10i truly believe it
50:13did you have the opportunity yes you
50:15were traveling alone there's no other
50:16witnesses
50:18your phone just happened to turn off
50:19from here to here well i didn't turn it
50:21off physically but it died
50:24and then it magically
50:26you found your charger here it was it
50:28was under the packed under the seat of
50:30the passenger side and it was when i was
50:32when you were lost you couldn't have
50:34maybe pulled over and found it well i
50:36did finally start looking when i was
50:37stranded
50:38i wouldn't i wouldn't have pulled over
50:40when i was lost
50:42okay this i've been focusing on this and
50:44going over and over my mind
50:47why this happened why your phone turns
50:50off here
50:52outside of los angeles
50:55what city is that because it's not
50:56tourists
50:57there's no cities there's towers okay
51:00there's towers dotted all over this
51:02place yeah
51:03one tower hit here the other tower here
51:06on the 93.
51:08there is no way
51:10somebody can get on that 15 and
51:11magically get on that 93
51:14because that 15 goes right to las vegas
51:17right there
51:18and continues this way it never goes
51:20through arizona i i got off before las
51:23vegas
51:24okay
51:27i didn't get that going to 15. you'd
51:28have to go to las vegas and then come
51:30down south go through boulder city
51:34i went through boulder city going north
51:38did you cross over the uh
51:42uh
51:43you didn't think that was odd you were
51:44crossing it over well after i figured
51:47out it was lost by then and i found i
51:49found the 93 and then found my way back
51:51to 15.
51:52and this tower here
51:54it's not just
51:56over the border in arizona it's quite a
51:58distance inside of arizona that it hit
52:01because there is a mountain range all
52:03along here
52:06and if you're on this side of the
52:08mountain range
52:09pretty good distance
52:10that signal's not going to come not
52:12going to hit you to power utah
52:15or nevada or california it's only going
52:18to hit in arizona
52:19well i had
52:20somehow gotten off the 15 and got onto
52:22the 40.
52:24what happened well the only way you can
52:26get on the 40
52:28is if after you cross
52:30the bridge
52:32or the uh the dam
52:34i think i got on the 40 in california
52:39from the 15th
52:41well like because i had actually gotten
52:43i actually began to drive the 10 west
52:46would you see what i'm saying the
52:47confusion that we're having
52:50and we'll come back to this
52:52well
52:53i got on the 40 somewhere over here
52:56in california yeah and continue to drive
52:58this way realized i was not in the right
53:01place at all
53:02and then i got onto the 93 north and
53:05then i hit the 15 again and then i went
53:07through las vegas and then st george and
53:09then on to the top okay
53:11that still doesn't make any sense to me
53:14and i can pull them out and show them to
53:16you and you can go over and over and
53:18over again
53:19but i don't think you're being
53:20completely honest with me
53:22about about that trip i honestly got
53:25lost
53:26it's it's bad timing
53:32were you at travis's house on wednesday
53:35absolutely not it was i was nowhere near
53:37mesa it was nowhere near no phoenix
53:45i wasn't
53:46even close to him
53:48um
53:50what if i could show you proof you were
53:51there
53:56oh that changed your mind
53:58i wasn't there can you be honest with me
54:02i was not at travis house
54:04was not
54:07you were at travis's house
54:10you guys had a sexual encounter
54:13which
54:14there's pictures
54:16i know you know there's pictures
54:19because i have them
54:22i will show them to you
54:26okay
54:28so
54:29what i'm asking you
54:31is for you to be honest with me
54:34i know you were there
54:38are you sure those pictures aren't from
54:40another time
54:41positive
54:45absolutely positive
54:50the last time i had any kind of sexual
54:52contact with travis was in april
55:01remember i told you about the camera
55:05that camera was damaged
55:08someone put it in the washing machine
55:10ran it through a wash cycle
55:13with some clothes of travis's
55:16but
55:17the card's intact
55:19remember i told you that card was
55:20destroyed
55:24i didn't want to tell you the truth
55:27because i wanted to make sure those
55:28photos were accurate
55:31and we can pull deleted
55:32photos i don't care if you delete them
55:37six months ago we can pull every photo
55:39that was ever on there
55:40pull the little pixels together
55:43get the time stamps on them not all of
55:45them but most of them have time stamps
55:47on them and we can verify those
55:48timestamps
55:50and i have pictures of you in travis's
55:52bedroom with travis
55:54pictures of him
55:56and
55:58it's obvious you guys are having sex
56:01taking
56:03photos of each other
56:04and they're
56:05dated and time stamped on the day he
56:08died
56:10are you sure it's me
56:12i mean that because i was not there it's
56:14you and you know it's you
56:20i know all the details of this case the
56:23only thing i don't know is why
56:26why did you choose
56:28to go visit traps that day
56:32and why did you do what you did
56:37why did you try this
56:39you did
56:43you hurt him
56:45that's why we're here
56:48that's why i flew up here
56:50because i needed to talk to you about
56:52this
56:54i can just arrest you and throw you in
56:56jail but
56:58i want to know why
56:59why did you do this to him it wouldn't
57:01hurt travis he's done so much for me
57:06there's so much evidence in that house
57:10so much and it all points to you i
57:13i lived there
57:16i was there for months and months and
57:18months
57:25i know you took pictures of him in the
57:27shower
57:29just before he died
57:32i don't think he would allow that
57:36and the camera actually took a couple of
57:38photos by accident
57:41during the time that he was being killed
57:43really yeah joey really
57:46you were there
57:48quit playing this game
57:51it's time for you to just come out and i
57:53did not no i'm i did not hurt travis
57:59i did not hurt travis
58:06i wouldn't do that to him
58:10we have the pictures
58:22can i see the pictures
58:25we have your blood
58:38you're here to see
58:52your left pawn print at the scene
58:55in blood
59:00what's going on there
59:02well i can explain the blood and the
59:03hair i don't know about my left palm
59:04print how can you explain the look at
59:06that well because
59:08i used to bathe napoleon
59:10all the time
59:11and um you haven't been there since
59:13april
59:15right
59:18he's had the house cleaned several times
59:19since then
59:21and this hair was not just a hair
59:24you know from the shower or something
59:27this hair was stuck
59:29with blood it obviously had blood on it
59:34at the time i got stuck where
59:36it ended up
59:38there's no way
59:40there's no other hair can you take can
59:43you take a hair
59:44sample no no but i mean like you know
59:47how they could do drug tests and find
59:48out when things were done
59:50can you we can't do that can't you
59:52measure the time we have dna matching
59:55that hair too okay i know but and that
59:57hair had a follicle on it and that means
1:00:00that that hair wasn't there very long
1:00:02the follicle will usually
1:00:04dissipate and
1:00:05go away
1:00:07after a certain time it'll fall off the
1:00:09hair itself
1:00:11well when i would brush my hair i mean
1:00:14this one
1:00:17you absolutely
1:00:19cannot
1:00:23can you can not explain that away
1:00:27you either had blood on your hand
1:00:30and you touched the wall
1:00:32or there was blood on the wall
1:00:34and you touched blood
1:00:36could my palm print have already been
1:00:38there what touched it
1:00:42tony
1:00:43this is over
1:00:45this is absolutely over
1:00:48you need to tell me the truth listen the
1:00:50truth is i did not hurt travis
1:00:52okay so
1:00:54you can continue to do this okay
1:00:58a records check shows you that
1:01:01you uh
1:01:03has reported a gun stolen
1:01:0625 auto
1:01:08just happens to be
1:01:11the same
1:01:12caliber as the weapon used to kill him
1:01:17a 25 auto was used to kill travis
1:01:21yeah along with multiple stab ones
1:01:26jody
1:01:28if you want i can show you some pictures
1:01:29of him
1:01:31do you want to see pictures of him
1:01:37part of me doesn't part of me doesn't
1:01:40why because you don't want to remember
1:01:42no
1:01:43there's a morbid curiosity jody i wanted
1:01:46to know how he died
1:01:48we can keep playing these games
1:01:50over and over again i'm not gonna
1:01:52believe you
1:01:54when you start telling me the truth
1:01:57then i can believe you
1:01:58but i can't deny
1:02:01this evidence i can't
1:02:04the trip you took doesn't make sense the
1:02:07opportunity was there
1:02:09your pictures on that date with him
1:02:13your blood is in the house
1:02:16mixed with his
1:02:17mixed
1:02:18not alongside but mixed
1:02:21your hair is there with blood
1:02:24and your palm print is there in blood
1:02:28it's over
1:02:30could it have been my blood from before
1:02:32image is not important right now
1:02:36saving the rest of your life is listen
1:02:39if i'm found guilty
1:02:41i don't have a life
1:02:43i'm not guilty
1:02:46i didn't hurt travis
1:02:48if i hurt travis if i killed travis i
1:02:51would beg for the death penalty was
1:02:53there anybody else with you
1:02:55i was traveling alone
1:02:58the whole time was there anybody else
1:02:59with you at travis's household in and
1:03:01stay the poor
1:03:02i was not at trump's house you were
1:03:06because that's when the blood was left
1:03:07on the bloody palm print was left on his
1:03:10wall
1:03:12i don't know what to tell
1:03:14you if you were in my shoes and i had
1:03:17this evidence against
1:03:20against you what would you say
1:03:23if i had that evidence against you it
1:03:25would be pretty obvious but i guess
1:03:27being in my position
1:03:29it just seems so impossible i'd want to
1:03:31see it i'd want to know i mean i'm not
1:03:33like i'm not a murderer but i guess if i
1:03:35were to do that i would wear gloves or
1:03:37you know something
1:03:39i just
1:03:41how could mine i don't know
1:03:45i know you tried to posh him off
1:03:48try to get some of the blood off try to
1:03:50clean him up a little bit
1:03:52but you're even denying
1:03:54the pictures
1:03:56of you being there
1:03:58there's pictures of you laying on the
1:03:59bed and pigtails
1:04:02pigtails yes
1:04:04now i've got pictures of you that i've
1:04:06blown up and you've got the little mole
1:04:08right there it's the same one
1:04:10it's you it's obvious
1:04:15i can show you some of these pictures
1:04:19do you want to see the pictures
1:04:21will that change your mind
1:04:25i mean i am curious
1:04:28okay let me take a break and let me go
1:04:30find him i'll bring him and show you
1:04:34i wasn't there you need to think about
1:04:36what you're saying
1:04:37this continuing to lie is not going to
1:04:40help you
1:04:42if it was something i didn't do won't
1:04:43help either
1:04:46okay let's say for a second that i did
1:04:49and i say
1:04:51i did it
1:04:54i mean
1:04:57the motive is there
1:04:59the jealousy issue
1:05:03but it wasn't
1:05:04i wouldn't even say it was jealous i
1:05:06mean
1:05:08there may have been some jealousy there
1:05:09but then i think what caused this
1:05:13i think if you know if anyone maybe
1:05:16travis was jealous but
1:05:20that's not what everybody else says
1:05:22well they know he was jealous but they
1:05:24think that you are absolutely obsessed
1:05:27obsessed is the word that they use
1:05:29that's the word i hear from everybody
1:05:32fatal attraction i don't know how many
1:05:35times i've heard that
1:05:37look at jody jody had to have done this
1:05:40or she got someone to do it for
1:05:43there's not one person that says
1:05:45anything else
1:05:47why is that
1:05:49that's the perception they have of you
1:05:51and there's a reason for that perception
1:05:54maybe because it's true
1:05:55maybe because we kept hanging out
1:05:58but not because it's true
1:06:02it caused this
1:06:05i can prove it we're there
1:06:07i can prove it
1:06:09but what i don't have is i don't have
1:06:11answers on why it happened
1:06:13or you know maybe something just got out
1:06:16of hand maybe
1:06:19maybe things got out of hand did you
1:06:20find the
1:06:21the gun
1:06:22maybe that would
1:06:24join
1:06:26we're just playing games here
1:06:29that gun was in your possession
1:06:33when did you report installment
1:06:35um i didn't even know that there were
1:06:37guns until my grand grandparents
1:06:39reported it stolen the day that their
1:06:41house was broken into the way was that
1:06:44i don't remember it was a few months ago
1:06:46maybe
1:06:51what did you do with the gun
1:06:54i don't have a gun
1:06:58they're going through your house right
1:06:59now so
1:07:00are they going to find anything there
1:07:02that could lead you back to this i don't
1:07:04think they would
1:07:06i mean there's nothing that could link
1:07:08me there i mean that's pretty compelling
1:07:10i have to admit if you found my palm
1:07:12print there i don't know
1:07:16i just dance do you have a pair of
1:07:17sweatpants it's got stripes around the
1:07:19backside with zippers
1:07:21um
1:07:23somebody's seen you wearing those before
1:07:27i've got so many clothes
1:07:29yeah i think i do wait
1:07:32i have well i have a zipper one that
1:07:33zips in the back
1:07:36it's got like stripes uh like big stripe
1:07:38on it on stuff
1:07:39it's got a black stripe all the way down
1:07:41and they're white
1:07:42the black i have those throughout the
1:07:44house
1:07:45it's got um
1:07:46i have two pairs actually
1:07:48one is too small and one is just about
1:07:50right um the other one i bought anyway
1:07:52that was too small because it was on
1:07:53sale and it's a good deal
1:07:55um but yeah they have stripes
1:07:59what does that mean what is that
1:08:01did i believe you were wearing a pair
1:08:03like that i guess when this happened
1:08:05remember i told you about the camera
1:08:07it was taking pictures by accident
1:08:10the camera was upside down
1:08:13flash
1:08:14another time camera flashed looked like
1:08:16it was on the ground maybe it was kicked
1:08:19but it took pictures and it's obviously
1:08:21a female
1:08:24i wonder what was wearing those pants
1:08:26oh i didn't even bring those pants in
1:08:28that shirt
1:08:29so
1:08:30if we find those pants is that going to
1:08:31make my case a little bit better yeah
1:08:36okay i'm gonna take a little break but i
1:08:38need you to think about what you're
1:08:39doing here
1:08:40because the best thing for you to do is
1:08:42to
1:08:44tell me the truth
1:08:46tell me exactly what happened because
1:08:48you know what i think your mom and your
1:08:50dad really deserve the truth
1:08:55they're going to be asking
1:08:59and it's
1:09:01absolutely
1:09:06it's so important that you tell me
1:09:10why this occurred what was going through
1:09:12your mind and
1:09:14what caused you to do this
1:09:18it happened and i can prove it happen
1:09:20and there's no doubt in my mind and
1:09:22there absolutely is no doubt in anybody
1:09:23else's mind who's investigating this
1:09:26that you were there and that you did
1:09:27this
1:09:29but
1:09:32i'll let you think about that
1:09:34okay and i'm gonna go look for some
1:09:36pictures
1:09:37and i'll bring them over and
1:09:39we'll continue this discussion
1:09:41okay let me go find it
1:09:43i'll be right back
1:09:45i'm not a murderer
1:11:58um
1:12:22yes
1:13:01nice
1:13:08so
1:13:24there's
1:14:10so
1:14:21there we go
1:14:28what is this
1:15:05it's a glock
1:15:07i just bought a gun yeah jim
1:15:10you probably found it by now
1:15:12probably i was taking it somewhere these
1:15:14are just a few photos
1:15:17and i want to be careful showing not
1:15:20showing you certain photos because some
1:15:21of them are very
1:15:24very bad
1:15:28that's obviously travis's house right
1:15:32remember that um
1:15:34yeah
1:15:44if travis were here today he would tell
1:15:46you that if it wasn't me
1:15:49no
1:15:50my job is to speak for travis right now
1:15:53and everything travis is telling me
1:15:56is that joey did this to me
1:16:01have you ever shot that 2500
1:16:05you ever touched it the one that was
1:16:07stolen i've never seen it
1:16:18grandpa said it looks like they totally
1:16:19won
1:16:23i don't know what a 25 looks like
1:16:25i know what a 22 looks like
1:16:28a 22 actually well the 22s that i saw
1:16:31kind of look like the ones in the
1:16:32westerns where they had the barrel in
1:16:34the lawn
1:16:36you know
1:16:40but there was another 22 in this in the
1:16:42store
1:16:44and it looked like a toy gun so it
1:16:45looked like i'm squirting like a water
1:16:46gun i don't know
1:17:13to show you
1:17:26remember him
1:17:28yeah
1:17:31see you naked
1:17:46let's see yes
1:17:52this is
1:17:54travis would never go for that soon
1:17:57after you and him
1:18:00had sex on his bed
1:18:07that couldn't have been too soon after
1:18:10an hour so
1:18:13the last time
1:18:37copies
1:18:42it's you i wanted to cover you up
1:18:44because oh
1:18:46that's you
1:18:47all of you
1:18:49that looks like me
1:19:04you can look at the rest of it if you
1:19:05want there's a few of those
1:19:08there's a few more
1:19:12try not to show people because
1:19:14i
1:19:15don't want to put you out there like
1:19:17that to people
1:19:23let's just say i've seen all of you
1:19:27then i've seen all traps
1:19:30but the one that sticks in my mind of
1:19:33travis
1:19:35is
1:19:37on the autopsy table
1:19:44or should i
1:19:49but this one i don't know if i should
1:19:51show you but
1:19:54nothing bad
1:19:56too bad
1:19:57but it's just one of the photos that was
1:20:00taken by accident
1:20:05and this is just a small portion of it
1:20:13that's your foot jody
1:20:15those are your pants
1:20:17no it's off color because
1:20:19it enhances it and the color kind of
1:20:21changes a little bit
1:20:23let's try this
1:20:28this is this bathroom
1:20:32that is not my foot
1:20:36these are your pants
1:20:39it's a different color like i said
1:20:40because we had to enhance it and the
1:20:41color changes
1:20:44the zipper back i have both of those
1:20:45pants at home
1:20:47if these are the same one though
1:20:49i don't have a zipper there though
1:20:51not on mine and this is a black stripe
1:20:53and this is white and the black goes
1:20:54around too
1:21:03i couldn't even recognize travis you've
1:21:05been there so long
1:21:08i keep thinking brother high and
1:21:10aggressive
1:21:12you know this is another one that's just
1:21:14a copy but it's you
1:21:16same day
1:21:19all time stamped all
1:21:22everything
1:21:25first
1:21:26pictures let's see
1:21:30the date
1:21:316408 5 22 p.m
1:21:36let's get started
1:21:39photo view started you know in travis's
1:21:42bedroom
1:21:43about one
1:21:44thirty one forty five something yeah
1:21:48um i don't know what kind of camera i
1:21:49got
1:21:52right there
1:21:56see the spots here
1:21:58they look a different color because we
1:21:59used a chemical to enhance this
1:22:02that right there blood
1:22:06it's a mixture of yours and has
1:22:09and that's your palm friend
1:22:12of your left palm
1:22:14i don't have any cats on my left palm
1:22:21nobody said that your cup was a palm
1:22:26do you have any recent cuts that are
1:22:27healing
1:22:29well my cat scratches me little things
1:22:33these are all her work you can see
1:22:35this is her
1:22:37dancer i've got scars
1:22:38she's very she's a feral cat all these
1:22:41little things are her though enough
1:22:42about your cat but
1:22:45why is your paw print in blood
1:23:04that's before we use the chemical we
1:23:06thought we'd get something from there
1:23:08but
1:23:09this is where your prime works
1:23:12right on the wall
1:23:16let's go over and over
1:23:33there's no doubt in my mind that you
1:23:34were there
1:23:35there's no doubt in my mind that you did
1:23:37this
1:23:38none
1:23:40so you can go until you're blue in the
1:23:41face and tell me you weren't there you
1:23:43had nothing to do with it i won't
1:23:45believe you
1:23:47i will not believe
1:23:49because travis is telling me
1:23:51that you did this to him
1:23:54that's my job
1:23:55my job is to speak for him
1:23:58and this is what he's telling me
1:24:01and
1:24:04i want to know why
1:24:07it's killing me inside i don't know why
1:24:09like there's no reason for it there's no
1:24:12reason why
1:24:13there's no reason i would ever
1:24:15want to hurt him
1:24:19there's no way anybody else
1:24:21he never raped me nobody never there's
1:24:24no way
1:24:26anyone else could have loved
1:24:29and blood
1:24:31on that wall
1:24:34no way
1:24:36get that through your head
1:24:37if i was going to ever
1:24:39try to kill somebody i would
1:24:42use gloves i've got plenty of them
1:24:45you said you were
1:24:47you know you planned this out perfectly
1:24:50maybe you were going there to just talk
1:24:52to him
1:24:53have a good time with him
1:24:55something got out of hand
1:24:57even if i were there and even if i were
1:25:00going there i'd just have a good time
1:25:01with him what if i tell you somebody saw
1:25:03you there
1:25:07a neighbor
1:25:09do you remember some of the neighbors
1:25:11just know you
1:25:12the next door neighbor
1:25:14and his wife i don't know his wife okay
1:25:16what about some of the neighbors across
1:25:18the street no i've never met them no
1:25:21but you've
1:25:22you've hung around there quite a bit and
1:25:23they know you
1:25:25yeah they've seen you there
1:25:27on that day
1:25:31i wasn't there that day jody you were
1:25:33there that day
1:25:35and even if i'm
1:25:36trying to think the the majority of the
1:25:39time that i spent there i had platinum
1:25:41blonde hair so i mean and i've never
1:25:43once said hi to them met them shift
1:25:45their hand and let them face to face
1:25:46across the street
1:25:48when i spent time there he wanted to
1:25:50keep it on private so it was um
1:25:53i spent more during my time inside
1:25:57not you know walking around outside
1:26:01except for a few times when i took his
1:26:03dog for a walk
1:26:05would they see your car there
1:26:10why would you park it down straight no
1:26:12they would see it there i drove an
1:26:13infiniti
1:26:15so they would definitely recognize the
1:26:16car i'm sure because well there are a
1:26:18lot of cars there a lot of the time
1:26:19we're seeing now now
1:26:22i gave it back
1:26:24to the empine yard somewhere
1:26:28are we gonna find any evidence in that
1:26:30car
1:26:32you're free to look
1:26:35you can also look in the rental car
1:26:40what company did you rent it from i
1:26:42don't remember but i can check my um
1:26:44i can check my
1:26:46my debit card record
1:26:48i remember the making money oh we're
1:26:50waiting for it anyway but you know all
1:26:51the new cars have gps's in them
1:26:54oh
1:26:55factory
1:26:57not for
1:26:58you that's good
1:27:00but for
1:27:03us to use if we need to
1:27:05well then that's good because i was also
1:27:06going to ask you i don't know
1:27:09if this is something that
1:27:11you can recall but a lot of the
1:27:13stoplights and mesa things have cameras
1:27:15on them
1:27:26unless you ran a red line
1:27:29unless you got caught on a speed camera
1:27:34but nothing
1:27:36beats that stuff
1:27:39and i have a solid case against you
1:27:41and i can present it to the judge
1:27:46as cold as is as it is now
1:27:49i don't know why she did it
1:27:52or i can present it to the judge
1:27:56with your explanation
1:28:01with your parents explanation
1:28:04have you talked to your parents about
1:28:05what happened
1:28:07um i told them i was worried about stuff
1:28:10about what stuff
1:28:12i said that well they knew i was upset
1:28:14about travis and i feel really bad by
1:28:16the way i was acting because i wasn't
1:28:18especially toward my grandparents there
1:28:20was a lot of times why are they not
1:28:21surprised that you're sitting here
1:28:22talking to me
1:28:25about
1:28:26this what do you mean they're not
1:28:29surprised
1:28:31they're concerned they're
1:28:34they're hurt
1:28:35i haven't but my other detectives have
1:28:38and
1:28:40they're very concerned with you
1:28:44but they kind of suspected that you had
1:28:45something to do with travis's death as
1:28:47well
1:28:48whose parents think that
1:28:50that's because i told them
1:28:52that a lot of people were dropping my
1:28:54name and i said i'm not worried about it
1:28:55because i didn't do it i said but it's
1:28:57very much it's hurting my reputation
1:28:58right now and it's me it's casting me in
1:29:01a bad light
1:29:02i wouldn't be worrying about your
1:29:03reputation right now
1:29:05i'd be worrying about the rest of your
1:29:06life
1:29:08that means nothing
1:29:11absolutely nothing
1:29:13well
1:29:15my reputation will affect the rest of my
1:29:16life
1:29:18so i am worried about reputation
1:29:24you're gonna continue with the story
1:29:26then that you weren't in mesa on the
1:29:28fourth you weren't in travis's house you
1:29:31didn't have sex with him
1:29:33that day and you had nothing to do with
1:29:35his murder
1:29:38those pictures are i don't know to me
1:29:40pictures are very compelling
1:29:42um
1:29:44i know that they can be modified i know
1:29:45they can be altered and date and time
1:29:47stamps i
1:29:49don't know but i i think they can be i
1:29:51didn't modify anything i don't think he
1:29:53would we take absolutely special care
1:29:56of what we do i know
1:29:59we actually take an image of that card
1:30:01or let's say you get a computer take an
1:30:03image of that hard drive and make a copy
1:30:05of it
1:30:06you don't even touch your hard drive
1:30:09we just work with the copy
1:30:12and that's exactly what we do with the
1:30:14photos we don't work with the originals
1:30:15we just make a exact
1:30:18digital copy of everything
1:30:21move it over so we don't touch it
1:30:23and then we analyze it and our guys are
1:30:26so good
1:30:28every case that you've ever done that i
1:30:30know of
1:30:31has never been lost in court it's been
1:30:33argued and argued and argued there is no
1:30:36way
1:30:37that they duplicate
1:30:38uh or that they enhance or that they
1:30:40change or that they
1:30:42do anything to a photo
1:30:46if i'm
1:30:50you don't have to pay the price well
1:30:51what's the price
1:30:53i don't know
1:30:54don't you know what the sentences are
1:30:56the sentences that are carried for
1:30:58something it depends on your situation
1:31:02old you are
1:31:04depends on the type of crime
1:31:07it depends on whether
1:31:10you show remorse or not
1:31:12and part of that remorse is at least
1:31:15coming clean
1:31:18when somebody doesn't come clean
1:31:22i don't see any remorse
1:31:24i don't know if the judge would see
1:31:26anyone worse
1:31:27i don't know if a jury would see any
1:31:28remorse
1:31:31but i don't know that's not for me to
1:31:33decide
1:31:35my job is to investigate
1:31:38find out who did it
1:31:40why they did it
1:31:42and present it to a court
1:31:44and that's it i just can't imagine
1:31:54you have something to tell me but you're
1:31:56you're just so resistant
1:32:00i know you're afraid
1:32:03but you're already going through it
1:32:04right now there's no backing up
1:32:07there's no backing up to yesterday
1:32:08there's no backing up to that day
1:32:12it's already happened
1:32:15and unfortunately you're gonna have to
1:32:17face the consequences
1:32:19i'm you know if i did that
1:32:22i would
1:32:23i'd be fully ready to face the
1:32:25consequences
1:32:27um i'm not
1:32:28really for things like you know i'm all
1:32:31for the ten commandments thou shalt not
1:32:32kill
1:32:34okay
1:32:35um
1:32:36but there's there's no evidence to show
1:32:38anybody else did that
1:32:40none
1:32:42well you just you think we'd find
1:32:44somebody else's fingerprint addicted
1:32:45down possibly
1:32:49there's something that happens you keep
1:32:50saying gloves
1:32:51there's things that happen when people
1:32:53wear gloves
1:32:54then we can actually see that well
1:32:56somebody wore gloves in this case nobody
1:32:58wore gloves in this case
1:33:01nobody
1:33:03i'm just saying that if i were to carry
1:33:05out something like that i would have
1:33:06worn gloves nobody else nobody else did
1:33:09this there's no evidence to show that
1:33:11anybody else did this but you
1:33:14you were the only one
1:33:16that is it
1:33:19and
1:33:20i'm not seeing any remorse i'm not
1:33:22seeing any
1:33:25anything from you
1:33:27to make me believe anything otherwise
1:33:30you can continue to say i didn't do it
1:33:33well but you're the kid that got caught
1:33:34on videotape stealing the candy
1:33:37and you continue to say it wasn't me
1:33:41i have the proof
1:33:43i have the pictures it wasn't me
1:33:49i don't think you would you would admit
1:33:50to it if somebody
1:33:52if your own mother saw you
1:33:54do this
1:33:56and she told me yeah i saw her do this
1:33:58you would say no it wasn't me
1:34:02why won't you admit to it
1:34:06i just can't
1:34:07i didn't kill travis
1:34:09i just didn't i did not take his life
1:34:17did you have anything to do with the
1:34:18death of travis
1:34:21not i don't think i had anything
1:34:23directly to do with it but i feel
1:34:25responsible somewhat for it
1:34:28then what can you tell me about his
1:34:29death
1:34:32you know a lot more about it than i do
1:34:34when i say i feel responsible it's
1:34:35because i was
1:34:37i wasn't
1:34:40planning to go there at all and he
1:34:41really wanted me to go and
1:34:44i told him no and i would have if it
1:34:48weren't for ryan and there's nothing
1:34:50really with ryan and i in fact he has
1:34:52been very hesitant to move anything
1:34:54forward because
1:34:56he's not sure about me
1:34:57um he said a lot of people are talking
1:34:59i'll just tell you that right now i
1:35:00really wish this would get solved so
1:35:01that we can just put it behind us
1:35:04um maybe that's a good thing because
1:35:06he's not an active church member
1:35:08but
1:35:11the reason i feel is because if i had if
1:35:14it weren't for ryan i would have folded
1:35:15and i would have just scrapped all my
1:35:17plans and spent all of my days there
1:35:21um
1:35:23but i didn't and i stood strong and he
1:35:25got mad and got sad and he guilted me he
1:35:27didn't get really mad he just kind of
1:35:28guilted me and finally was like whatever
1:35:31fine let me hung up
1:35:38i feel that if i would have gone there
1:35:42i could
1:35:45thought i could have done something
1:35:47i could
1:35:49but you were there jody
1:35:53you were there on wednesday before can i
1:35:56ask you i don't know if you know this
1:35:59oh i have a camera in my storage unit
1:36:02that i don't use anymore but the travis
1:36:04and i used to use frequently
1:36:06and we took pictures with it
1:36:08um
1:36:09this is
1:36:11i don't know
1:36:12this is kind of do you remember taking
1:36:13these pictures
1:36:17there were many pictures i
1:36:20vaguely they were we took
1:36:22tons and tons of pictures some i saved
1:36:24mostly deleted
1:36:26um some he sent me through his phone and
1:36:28he usually deleted all pictures like
1:36:30this
1:36:32yeah well before any pictures like this
1:36:34that i found anywhere on his computer
1:36:37camera anything
1:36:41they were deleted
1:36:43well prior to him getting his camera all
1:36:45those pictures were on my camera
1:36:50so
1:36:53all these same pictures
1:36:56um
1:37:00i don't know
1:37:02i don't know we took um we took a bunch
1:37:04the week before i left
1:37:06um we took a bunch
1:37:09over the last
1:37:10six or seven months
1:37:13we took over last year even though we
1:37:15were still dating but we would delete
1:37:16them mostly
1:37:18there were some that he sent me that i
1:37:19didn't delete
1:37:21um
1:37:26what i'm asking is is it possible that
1:37:28you know that my memory card
1:37:30would have been in his camera if they're
1:37:32interchangeable
1:37:35how do you know they're in a transport
1:37:37i don't that's what i'm asking is what
1:37:38kind of memory card it was
1:37:40just a regular little sd card well
1:37:43because i've got one i've got one that's
1:37:45like this big
1:37:47and it's thin it's like a cracker
1:37:50and the one i use on my professional
1:37:51camera is like this size and it's more
1:37:53kind of like that thick
1:37:56and the little one is really thin
1:38:00and it's got like little thingies here
1:38:03they're reading it and my big one that's
1:38:04like that on the middle part
1:38:06so that one obviously probably wouldn't
1:38:08be interchangeable because it's a cannon
1:38:10and it's nice
1:38:12but the other one
1:38:16i don't know i don't know your camera's
1:38:17here his camera's there he just bought
1:38:19that camera
1:38:20well the other camera that i used before
1:38:22that's broken now it's in my storage
1:38:24unit but it's still there and you're
1:38:26saying those pictures are on that camera
1:38:29no what i'm saying is i had several
1:38:31memory cards for this camera that i
1:38:33don't have anymore
1:38:34and so i guess
1:38:39it's so far-fetched but i guess it's
1:38:41possible that
1:38:43my my card just saying somebody took
1:38:45your
1:38:46your pictures or your card and
1:38:49it's framing you and put
1:38:52no
1:38:52i'm just saying that if if my memory
1:38:55cards were left at his house he could he
1:38:56would have used those for his camera
1:39:00i don't
1:39:01i don't know
1:39:05i can explain the blood though and i can
1:39:07explain the hair i don't know about this
1:39:09i can't explain the bladder there well
1:39:12the hair
1:39:14there's hair everywhere and probably
1:39:16every square inch of that house my hair
1:39:18you sweep it you'll get hair everywhere
1:39:20all over around the toilet around in the
1:39:22shower i don't know about the shower
1:39:23because the shower gets used but
1:39:24definitely
1:39:25around the bottom of the um
1:39:27the sink area
1:39:29still doesn't explain the hair to me it
1:39:30had a follicle in it you haven't been
1:39:32there since april
1:39:34there's no way
1:39:37no way
1:39:41the blood
1:39:44no
1:39:45well
1:39:45blood is mixed with his and that's the
1:39:47blood that he he bled that day when he
1:39:49was killed well
1:39:52print
1:39:53i don't know absolutely if you can check
1:39:55how fresh the blood was no we can't
1:39:57check how fresh it is but we can go by
1:39:59where it is oh okay because i cut myself
1:40:03one of them and you
1:40:05and you're saying that that blood
1:40:09that you cut yourself with back who
1:40:11knows when
1:40:13was still on the wall in the exact same
1:40:15spot oh i don't know
1:40:18where the where the bloody palm print
1:40:19was
1:40:25it was a glass that travis had that i
1:40:27was using to wash napoleon with i used
1:40:29to give him baths and i dropped it and
1:40:31when i picked up all the glass and i'm
1:40:33pretty casual about it because i break
1:40:34glass at work all the time
1:40:36and it's not a big deal it's nothing to
1:40:37be scared of
1:40:39i was probably just being careless with
1:40:40it and i sliced myself open and is that
1:40:43how you want to leave this
1:40:46just
1:40:46these far-fetched excuses on why your
1:40:49blood is there while your hair is there
1:40:50like your palm print is there
1:40:53what pictures are there
1:40:55i don't know about the picture that's
1:40:56how you want to leave this
1:40:58i wouldn't want to
1:41:01i seriously would not want to
1:41:05you need to come out
1:41:08and tell me why this happened
1:41:10i will not accept any other excuses
1:41:14i will just move on with my
1:41:16investigation
1:41:17with my final report submitting all the
1:41:20conclusions and all the evidence
1:41:23and we can just let that judge and the
1:41:25jury decide
1:41:28you yourself said that if you were in my
1:41:29shoes you would think that i was guilty
1:41:36we can leave it in the hands of a jury
1:41:38we can do that that's fine
1:41:40would that help me at all
1:41:43i mean you can't use them in court but
1:41:45well then there's no point in taking it
1:41:48i thought those things can be used
1:41:50in certain cases in this case if you
1:41:52want i can check
1:41:54absolutely if i passed a lie detector
1:41:56test would that help you
1:41:59could help you
1:42:02you're so weird anyway
1:42:11travis this is your one opportunity to
1:42:13talk to me because i'm
1:42:16it's gonna be a while before i talk to
1:42:17you again
1:42:19and it's not gonna be in this kind of
1:42:20setting
1:42:24okay
1:42:24do you understand what's gonna happen to
1:42:26you
1:42:30well we're gonna
1:42:32since these charges are out of arizona
1:42:35um
1:42:36we're gonna send you through the court
1:42:37system here
1:42:39and then we're gonna ask to extradite
1:42:41you to arizona from california
1:42:43that just means permission for you to
1:42:45bring you over
1:42:46because you're out of state lines
1:42:49and the next time we talk could be in a
1:42:50whole different setting
1:42:52could be in jail somewhere
1:42:57i think this setting is a little bit
1:42:59better
1:43:02but it's up to you
1:43:06joey i know you were there
1:43:10i know
1:43:14that travis was either
1:43:16in the shower or just outside the shower
1:43:18when he was shot
1:43:20and i know somebody who was extremely
1:43:22angry at him
1:43:27he took a knife to him
1:43:30and couldn't stop
1:43:34he couldn't stop
1:43:36and before you knew it it was all over
1:43:39and then you panicked
1:43:42and then
1:43:43i've never been angry that angry at him
1:43:46not enough for that i've been so far
1:43:47angrier at other people and other
1:43:49ex-boyfriends
1:43:51then tell me who could have done this
1:43:56who did this i don't know but if i am
1:44:00if i go to trial for this and if i'm
1:44:02convicted for this whoever did this is
1:44:03going to be sitting very pretty
1:44:05somewhere glad that it wasn't them
1:44:08and it's my job to make sure that
1:44:10an innocent person does not go to jail
1:44:15but i don't see an innocent person
1:44:16sitting in front of me
1:44:20when i asked you i always i always ask
1:44:22this one question
1:44:25actually it's two first one is did you
1:44:27kill travis
1:44:29and you kind of hesitate the limits as i
1:44:31am
1:44:32i didn't have anything to do with it
1:44:34then i asked you similar question
1:44:37did you have anything to do with
1:44:38travis's death
1:44:42you hesitated again that's because i
1:44:44feel like if i had gone to arizona most
1:44:47people would say
1:44:49no
1:44:51did you kill travels
1:44:52no well i didn't and i didn't have
1:44:54anything to do with it now do i feel
1:44:56responsible i've been carrying around
1:44:58guilt since i heard about it why do you
1:45:00feel responsible if you felt responsible
1:45:02it means you know something else no
1:45:04because it means your actions led to his
1:45:06death because he always has guilted me
1:45:08he's always guilted me
1:45:10and
1:45:11so you feel somebody else you feel
1:45:13somebody else killed him
1:45:15well yeah for what reason i don't know i
1:45:18don't know how do you feel guilty
1:45:20if you don't know the reason here's why
1:45:22i feel guilty the one of the last times
1:45:24we spoke he was guilty me about not
1:45:27coming to see him and part of my heart
1:45:29still wanted to go see him and another
1:45:31part just wants to move on and
1:45:34pursue this new avenue which was in utah
1:45:38and there is a tinge of guilt you know
1:45:41when he would text me and he would say
1:45:42hey you want to come over and make out
1:45:44or want to da da da
1:45:46um
1:45:48i didn't respond one night and i just
1:45:51stayed strong and i didn't respond and
1:45:52then he
1:45:54called and called and called and then
1:45:55the next day he was like
1:45:57you don't care about me you don't love
1:45:59me
1:46:00you don't care i was there all alone
1:46:03and you didn't want to come and hang out
1:46:05or you didn't want to come and keep me
1:46:06company and he says it not like that but
1:46:08in that tone it's in the sweetest
1:46:10sweetest way and it's it's it's guilt
1:46:14um
1:46:16i still don't get the guilt i really
1:46:18don't you keep explaining it but it has
1:46:20nothing to do with whether because he
1:46:22was killed or not
1:46:24how was you being there going to prevent
1:46:26him from being killed
1:46:28well i kind of feel that if i had gone
1:46:30that
1:46:31we could have been up
1:46:33watching a movie or we could have two
1:46:35people could have
1:46:36done something more than just him
1:46:38i just feel like if
1:46:40if there was some way that i i could
1:46:42have prevented it there's some way that
1:46:44i could have done something to stop it
1:46:46and i told that to a few people they're
1:46:47like well you might have been killed too
1:46:50maybe but maybe travis would still be
1:46:52alive
1:46:58travis has done a lot for me and i
1:47:00wouldn't hurt him
1:47:03he introduced the gospel to me
1:47:06well
1:47:07i have proof that says otherwise joey i
1:47:09i can't
1:47:14i can't deny that
1:47:15i can't deny that proof
1:47:18and that proof is not pointing at
1:47:20anybody else
1:47:21nobody
1:47:23nobody in this entire world except you
1:47:28nobody
1:47:31nobody else was in that house that day
1:47:35except you
1:47:37you were the only one
1:47:39you and him alone i didn't even go to
1:47:41mesa
1:47:42can you check can you check the gps yes
1:47:45we will check that
1:47:48if it's you know and if that comes back
1:47:50and and i've looked at the map and the
1:47:52way that you're saying you travel there
1:47:54is no way when last road trip travis and
1:47:56i went on we drove to utah one i mean
1:47:59i'm sorry we drove to oklahoma city
1:48:01um from mesa and one of our stops on the
1:48:04way was roswell after uh he drove all
1:48:06night and i slept and then when after
1:48:09roswell museum it was my turn to drive
1:48:11and he's like just get on this and drive
1:48:1398 point something miles and then we
1:48:16should be there so i got on the road and
1:48:18i drove 98.6 or two or whatever miles it
1:48:21was
1:48:22and i woke him up and i said i don't
1:48:24think we're here and he woke and looked
1:48:26around it was just like rolling fields
1:48:27forever
1:48:29and i drove completely in the wrong
1:48:31direction
1:48:32and i'm not saying
1:48:36i'm just saying
1:48:37i have a poor sense of direction i got
1:48:39totally lost
1:48:41i know maybe that's just bad luck i got
1:48:43totally lost so even if you got totally
1:48:46lost it doesn't explain all that time
1:48:49it does not i mean
1:48:51if you went four hours here or five
1:48:53hours in the wrong direction it still
1:48:55at one point i wasn't going anywhere
1:48:57because i ran out of gas
1:48:59i was totally stranded
1:49:04i was sitting like a sitting duck and
1:49:06that's when i began it was it was a
1:49:08little bit warm and it wasn't too hot
1:49:10but
1:49:11um
1:49:12that's when i just i read for a little
1:49:14bit i already slept um
1:49:16and that's when i just started looking
1:49:18around the car
1:49:19and organizing stuff and
1:49:21getting trashed together and had a
1:49:23couple bites to eat from snacks that i
1:49:25had and when i was cleaning out under
1:49:26the seat i found my phone charger
1:49:27plugged it in powered it on there was no
1:49:30cell phone reception anywhere so you've
1:49:32never seen his camera
1:49:34his new camera i don't know he described
1:49:37it did you ever touch his camera
1:49:41i've never seen it okay so there's no
1:49:43reason your fingerprints should be on it
1:49:45okay
1:49:46because that thing's off at a lab right
1:49:48now
1:49:49and
1:49:50they're hopeful that they can get some
1:49:52friends off the camera okay and if your
1:49:54friends come back on that camera what
1:49:55are you gonna say
1:49:58well they won't come back on it cause
1:49:59i've never touched it
1:50:07i just still can't explain the rest of
1:50:08this stuff
1:50:10i honestly can't explain the pictures
1:50:13the other stuff or the palm print the
1:50:15other stuff i can explain no you can't
1:50:16explain the blood either
1:50:19because that blood is in blood i mean
1:50:21it's it's part of the print
1:50:25unless you cut yourself
1:50:28at the beginning of the year and left
1:50:29your palm print in blood
1:50:31and it stayed there until he was killed
1:50:33i cut myself
1:50:35it wasn't the beginning of the year it
1:50:36was before convention no you can't
1:50:38explain it
1:50:40i'd have to say early march
1:50:43that palm print is there
1:50:46in blood
1:50:48partially yours and partially his
1:50:54is it possible there's just like any
1:50:56other way in the universe that that
1:50:58could have gotten there
1:51:00possible
1:51:02probable is the question you need to ask
1:51:04and
1:51:05is absolutely not probable
1:51:08i understand that but it is possible
1:51:10anything is possible
1:51:17that is very compelling
1:51:20that's why i'm here that's why i
1:51:22traveled here
1:51:24because i came here to arrest you
1:51:27and get an explanation from you that's
1:51:30the second reason
1:51:31and since you're not giving me an
1:51:33explanation i guess we'll just continue
1:51:34with the
1:51:35uh i just have no reason to hurt travis
1:51:38you do have a reason to hurt travis what
1:51:39would my reason possibly be there's a
1:51:41whole history of you too and everybody
1:51:44knows it i have a whole history with
1:51:46other guys why is everybody saying that
1:51:50you had something to do with his death
1:51:52why is everybody saying that you are
1:51:54capable of hurting him
1:51:56everybody says it
1:51:58i don't know why so don't tell me that
1:51:59you're not capable i don't even hurt
1:52:02spiders
1:52:06have you ever had any anger issues
1:52:07before
1:52:09never in your past
1:52:13i've had arguments
1:52:15well everybody has arguments i'm talking
1:52:16about anger
1:52:18just absolute anger
1:52:20you just you lose it sometimes
1:52:23no i had a nervous breakdown once
1:52:25you taken any medication or anything
1:52:28nothing
1:52:29well i had a nervous breakdown when a
1:52:31boyfriend and i were arguing once and
1:52:34um
1:52:36and he he began to argue with me in a
1:52:38way that was totally different
1:52:40from how we had ever argued before and
1:52:42he was just like every time i'd say
1:52:44something he was like
1:52:45little you know it was kind of weird
1:52:47like
1:52:49every time i tried to formulate a
1:52:50thought i was just sad and i was crying
1:52:53every time i tried for him without he
1:52:54would interject and twist it and it was
1:52:57like the weirdest psychological thing
1:52:59that had ever happened and
1:53:02and
1:53:02the way i reacted was i i went into my
1:53:05room it was the guy i bought a house
1:53:06with
1:53:07i went into my room and shut the door we
1:53:09had separate bedrooms
1:53:11and
1:53:12i was in his room i went down the hall
1:53:14into my room and shut the door and i
1:53:15just remember hyperventilating
1:53:18and that's all
1:53:19and i was crying
1:53:21and then
1:53:22i went to get something out of my car
1:53:25and when he saw that he um maybe thought
1:53:28i was going to leave so he asked me for
1:53:29the key to his truck and pulled behind
1:53:30my car because he thought that because i
1:53:32was upset i shouldn't drive anywhere
1:53:34but i mean that's
1:53:37other than arguments no anchor issues
1:53:46that i can remember
1:53:47oh
1:53:48i kicked a dog once
1:53:52i was a freshman in high school
1:53:56and
1:53:57i love love love animals
1:54:02and
1:54:03once we had this dog his name was doggy
1:54:05boy and my parents until this dog that
1:54:07they have now have never been able to
1:54:10and i don't mean just them we as a
1:54:11family have never been able to care for
1:54:13a dog properly as far as give it
1:54:15attention and take it for walks and be
1:54:16consistent
1:54:17um so this dog stayed in the backyard a
1:54:19lot and he stayed tied up on you know in
1:54:21the shade with plenty of you know leeway
1:54:24at one point though he was untied and i
1:54:26took the trash out
1:54:28and he and this is when my little
1:54:30brother and sister were still in diapers
1:54:32and he tore this it was a diaper trash
1:54:35and he tore diapers all over the yard
1:54:38and of course i had to clean it up and
1:54:40when diapers get wet and they're like
1:54:42this jelly spongy weird stuff
1:54:45and
1:54:46i just i got mad and i
1:54:48i just kicked him with my right foot
1:54:51and he just moved a few feet and he
1:54:53didn't yell for anything but he just
1:54:55went
1:54:56he ran away and i never saw him after
1:54:58that
1:54:59and
1:55:00i mean that's probably an anger issue i
1:55:02guess but well once i'm kicking a dog
1:55:05it's not an anger issue it changed my
1:55:07world as far as animal treatment goes
1:55:09because
1:55:10i just
1:55:12i've never seen him since
1:55:15and i need to apologize for that to him
1:55:18i know it sounds weird in my
1:55:19relationship with animals it's kind of
1:55:20like they're like people too you know
1:55:22they have souls
1:55:24what you need to do is you need to
1:55:25apologize to the travis
1:55:28did you just refuse
1:55:30i can't help you
1:55:44i can't continue to listen to lies
1:55:50do you have anything else you need to
1:55:51tell me
1:55:52yeah you would ask me what have i been
1:55:53up to in the weeks since i got back
1:55:56what did you mean by that
1:55:58just what what are you going to do
1:56:01because i know this thing has to be
1:56:03weighing pretty heavy on you
1:56:06i've been trying to
1:56:09put his death behind me
1:56:14i
1:56:17if i did anything that had anything to
1:56:20do with his death in any way
1:56:22it's not if to me i wouldn't it's not if
1:56:26it's not if at all well to me it is
1:56:30i would i would be more than remorseful
1:56:32so maybe something you're blocking out
1:56:34your head
1:56:36i don't think so i mean i tend to write
1:56:38everything down
1:56:40i tend to i just finished the book the
1:56:42real less traveled
1:56:44and he said um
1:56:46the true definition of sanity is
1:56:48dedication to reality at all costs
1:56:51so i think at times you know i may have
1:56:54you know prayed or meditated upon a
1:56:56certain way you know like
1:56:59like me being um
1:57:00wealthy or something like that but
1:57:05well this is definitely reality
1:57:08we are sitting here inside of an office
1:57:12the sheriff's department
1:57:14and you are facing first degree murder
1:57:16charges
1:57:18and you are
1:57:20going to be booked into jail and
1:57:22eventually you will be brought back to
1:57:24arizona
1:57:25and you will stand trial
1:57:28that's the reality and once you realize
1:57:31that i think you'll be better for it
1:57:35and if you really wanted to embrace
1:57:37reality you would sit here and explain
1:57:38to me why this happened
1:57:41but you refuse you refuse to embrace
1:57:43real life why
1:57:45i don't know why he was killed
1:57:47i don't know why i had issues with
1:57:50travis
1:57:51if anything he had more issues with me
1:57:54um
1:57:55i've had worse issues with other people
1:57:57they're all still alive i'm still
1:57:59friends with my ex-boyfriends they're
1:58:01all still alive you know i've been doing
1:58:03this a long time
1:58:06and there's one thing that
1:58:08i can never get out of my head
1:58:10ever since the first day i talked to you
1:58:12it's
1:58:14there's an old saying that
1:58:16you know
1:58:17someone's just not acting right
1:58:19look into it
1:58:21you have not acted right from day one
1:58:25from day one when i talked to you on
1:58:27that phone
1:58:28i just sensed that you just
1:58:30you weren't acting like somebody who
1:58:32used to love this guy or who still loved
1:58:34him
1:58:35even as a close friend
1:58:38and even now when i told you that
1:58:40i have all this evidence against you and
1:58:43and that you're facing first degree
1:58:45murder charges you're
1:58:48you're just not acting right jody
1:58:50you're acting like somebody who's guilty
1:58:54how so
1:59:00you tell me
1:59:02i know because i've been doing it a long
1:59:04time it's taken me a long time to figure
1:59:07it out
1:59:08but
1:59:09within the first
1:59:1230 seconds to a minute of a conversation
1:59:14i can i know when somebody's acting
1:59:15right there's a certain way people act
1:59:18how did i have it
1:59:19i think it's not like tv it's not
1:59:21anything like that it's not what you see
1:59:23in the movies
1:59:25i see reality
1:59:27when i accuse somebody of
1:59:29a heinous crime or
1:59:32you know something very serious
1:59:35reality hits in
1:59:37and they definitely act a certain way
1:59:39and that's not you
1:59:42you act just like everybody else
1:59:44who i accused of doing a crime
1:59:47who did it
1:59:50there's no other way to tell you
1:59:52is it because i'm not crying
1:59:54no
1:59:56it's not because of that what is it
1:59:59i mean i'm not going to change how it
2:00:00happens no obviously you can't change
2:00:02where you're at you're right i mean i am
2:00:04who i am yeah you're you're sincere in
2:00:06the way you're acting
2:00:08but uh well you're just you're just not
2:00:10telling the truth
2:00:12how is it different
2:00:14well
2:00:15it's not really something you need to
2:00:16focus on anymore i think you need to
2:00:18focus on the truth but it's something
2:00:20that you refuse
2:00:23so if you don't if you don't want to
2:00:24continue then
2:00:26then we'll just move on to the next step
2:00:30listen
2:00:33it's not that i didn't love travis
2:00:35and it's not that i don't still love him
2:00:38but
2:00:40i really needed to move on
2:00:42and
2:00:45the last
2:00:47what prevented you from moving on
2:00:50nobody was preventing you from moving on
2:00:52well
2:00:54the only person preventing me really
2:00:56from moving on was myself and until i
2:00:58made that step and i moved back moved
2:01:01away
2:01:02and we communicated gradually less and
2:01:04less and less and i was fine with that
2:01:07um
2:01:08i haven't found the guy the man that i
2:01:11want to marry the person i want to spend
2:01:12my life with
2:01:14um but in my mind
2:01:16travis did and i was happy for him and i
2:01:18thought there was also a part of me that
2:01:20felt
2:01:21if i stay i'm going to jeopardize that
2:01:23for him as well
2:01:24we both deserve to be happy
2:01:26we both deserve to have
2:01:29you know be married in the temple
2:01:32and that's where he wanted to go
2:01:35um
2:01:37so i mean i didn't know that mimi didn't
2:01:40feel that way i had never spoken to her
2:01:42except at church when i came down to
2:01:44arizona it was really brief
2:01:46um and it was the bishop who told me
2:01:49that you know she had essentially turned
2:01:51him down
2:01:52and the last few um
2:01:55i mean now that i think about it he was
2:01:58really just
2:01:59the
2:02:00you know in his in his attitude and
2:02:02stuff and i just thought maybe that's
2:02:03just because we're just beginning to
2:02:04more distance ourselves
2:02:07um
2:02:09and you know he still had his trip
2:02:10planned to come up here
2:02:16i just the reason i i don't know
2:02:20it's not that i'm not remorseful that he
2:02:21died
2:02:26i didn't kill him
2:02:28i didn't take his life
2:02:30did you have anything to do with i had
2:02:32nothing to do with his death at all
2:02:36at all the reason i hesitate is because
2:02:39matus is something that's wrong with me
2:02:41psychologically as i think of the
2:02:42butterfly effect
2:02:44and it's like
2:02:45you could say that the guy pumping gas
2:02:47station you can get pumping gas down at
2:02:48the gas station could have potentially
2:02:50because you see all these movies these
2:02:51funky movies where it's like this effect
2:02:53of this which effect there's such a
2:02:54necklace if you've never done this i
2:02:55know if you've never met him you'd
2:02:56probably still be mine
2:02:58that's true yeah that's because you
2:03:00killed him no jody you did i did not
2:03:03joey
2:03:06you can't convince me otherwise
2:03:08unless you come up with more proof
2:03:10that you didn't but i can't prove that
2:03:12anybody else no i couldn't have
2:03:16what about if the car comes back that it
2:03:18was never even in that area it still
2:03:21doesn't
2:03:22negate the fact that we have this other
2:03:23evidence
2:03:28i mean
2:03:30this is absolutely some of the best
2:03:32evidence i've ever had in a case
2:03:35and i've convicted
2:03:37a few people on less than this well so
2:03:40i'm as good as don right
2:03:42with that evidence
2:03:45yeah
2:03:46i just can't
2:03:48admit to something that i didn't do if
2:03:51it would help
2:03:52if it would help my case and give me an
2:03:54easier sentence i know people plead
2:03:56guilty for those things and i don't want
2:03:58you to do that
2:04:02that is the absolute last thing i want
2:04:06well i know what i want to do is i want
2:04:08to sit here with you
2:04:10and i want to go over
2:04:12why you visited him that day
2:04:15what you guys talked about
2:04:18what caused you to get so angry
2:04:21and
2:04:22the details on how it happened
2:04:24and it's something that you probably
2:04:26don't want to remember
2:04:28but it's something that i need
2:04:30because
2:04:32for me to finish a case completely
2:04:34i need to know
2:04:36not just the details
2:04:38but what was going through your mind
2:04:42because i need to present that
2:04:44as a full picture
2:04:46because if i don't
2:04:48i don't feel that i've completed my job
2:04:50then my job is to speak for him
2:04:53not anybody else
2:04:55my job isn't to speak for you
2:04:58my job isn't to speak for his family
2:05:00it's to speak for travis
2:05:03and i know something horrible happened
2:05:05that day
2:05:06absolutely horrible
2:05:09something that could have been avoided
2:05:14whether something was planned i don't
2:05:16know
2:05:18whether you planned it or whether it
2:05:20accidentally happened or
2:05:23something got out of hand i i don't know
2:05:26all i can do is speculate
2:05:29and i want to believe
2:05:31that you're not this
2:05:33cold-hearted person that could just go
2:05:35out and do something like this to
2:05:37somebody
2:05:38i want to believe that
2:05:42like a lot of people
2:05:45things got out of
2:05:46control and before you knew it it was
2:05:49too late
2:05:51that's what i want to believe
2:05:54and that's truly from my heart
2:05:56because i sit here and i've talked to
2:05:58you
2:05:59and i'm talking to you now and all those
2:06:01conversations we had on the phone and i
2:06:02don't see a cold-hearted
2:06:05murderer like you would see on tv or
2:06:08that i've seen before sit across from me
2:06:10that's not what i see in you
2:06:13and
2:06:14i'm going to call it begging
2:06:17i'm begging you to
2:06:19at least come clean and tell me why
2:06:22because
2:06:24i don't want to leave here today
2:06:28not knowing
2:06:29because it's gonna
2:06:30follow me forever
2:06:34i wish that i had answers i'm sorry
2:06:40i'm
2:06:44you need to just let the answers come
2:06:46out
2:06:49there's just no reason
2:06:51there's just no reason there's no good
2:06:54reason why this happened there's never a
2:06:56good reason why somebody dies like this
2:07:03how many times was travis stabbed
2:07:09more than i want to remember
2:07:15and i'm not going to sit here and
2:07:19show you pictures of him after the fact
2:07:21i don't do that that's not how i work
2:07:27that is not for me to do
2:07:30but eventually those photos will come
2:07:32out
2:07:37jody
2:07:49jody we're here now
2:07:53they're right here
2:08:04i think you're feeling the reality in
2:08:06the moment now
2:08:12no i'm just
2:08:14feeling all of the
2:08:15things that i'm going to potentially
2:08:18miss out on
2:08:20with my family and i think of all the
2:08:22things that travis's family is gonna
2:08:25miss out on
2:08:30and he had brothers and sisters and i
2:08:32have brothers and sisters
2:08:35any
2:08:41it's not fair
2:08:48it's not fair but this is where we i
2:08:50mean i know that he's in a good place
2:08:53and i know that he's fine
2:08:55i know that he's doing great
2:08:57but what about all of his friends all of
2:09:00his family
2:09:02that are here and they're just going
2:09:04through all of this and i know it it's
2:09:06temporary but
2:09:08it's so very much right now
2:09:18there's just no reason i would ever want
2:09:20to hurt you
2:09:24know whether you wanted to is is a
2:09:26different
2:09:28question
2:09:29i'm just saying i don't think you wanted
2:09:30to
2:09:32i really don't think you wanted to
2:09:39but this speaks for itself right it
2:09:41speaks for itself jody
2:09:44it goes beyond speculation
2:09:47this is way beyond speculation
2:09:51this is downright proof
2:09:55but there's no backstory to it
2:09:58all i know is that
2:10:04i need a story or else it's just cold
2:10:07it's so cold
2:10:13you don't look like the person that
2:10:14would plan something
2:10:16like this
2:10:18you're just not that person
2:10:22i couldn't believe other things but not
2:10:23that
2:10:25but without the truth i can't paint
2:10:27another picture
2:10:34and it's going to be up to the
2:10:35prosecutor to paint that picture and if
2:10:38you want that prosecutor and i've met
2:10:40him
2:10:41and you don't want him painting that
2:10:42picture
2:10:44because he is
2:10:46good at what he does
2:10:49i've worked with him before
2:10:52and you allow him to paint that picture
2:10:54for you
2:10:57it's not going to be good
2:11:01it looks like you don't
2:11:02really need anything it just looks like
2:11:04i mean
2:11:06it looks like you don't even need a good
2:11:07prosecutor anyway
2:11:09so i'd be right
2:11:11i
2:11:12i have to maintain my innocence i can't
2:11:15admit to doing something that i haven't
2:11:17done
2:11:19and there's
2:11:21part of me wants to cop out and say it
2:11:23no
2:11:24well
2:11:25if you're gonna cop out it's because
2:11:28you're telling the truth
2:11:30well that's not really caught me down
2:11:32yeah i don't want you
2:11:34to sit here and tell me a lie
2:11:37to appease me that is the worst thing
2:11:39you can do for me
2:11:46but back there in that mind of yours is
2:11:49somebody screaming to get out and tell
2:11:51me what happened but you just cannot
2:12:00he has done nothing but i mean except
2:12:02for some mean words that he said
2:12:05people have said worse to me or just as
2:12:07bad
2:12:08except for that he's never he's helped
2:12:11me he's given me money he was selling me
2:12:13his car on the then why easiest
2:12:16terms ever
2:12:19there's no reason why
2:12:21it just happens
2:12:27okay
2:12:28there's just nothing well i have more
2:12:30work to do
2:12:32can you give me a rundown of what's
2:12:34gonna happen from here when you leave
2:12:38yeah you're uh
2:12:40like just today for example
2:12:44well you'd probably be taken across the
2:12:46street to the county jail
2:12:48you'll be processed through there
2:12:51you'll be
2:12:53set in front of a judge
2:12:55at least within 24 hours
2:12:58and
2:13:01there's a warrant for your arrest
2:13:03and the bond is two million dollars
2:13:06if you can come up with a two million
2:13:08dollar bond
2:13:10then the judge will decide whether to
2:13:11you know accept that two million or not
2:13:15at that point
2:13:17we're going to file extradition
2:13:19papers basically our courts are saying
2:13:21that hey you have someone in custody on
2:13:23one of our charges
2:13:25we want them
2:13:26brought back to arizona
2:13:28or at least allow us to come pick them
2:13:31up and that's called an extradition
2:13:33hearing
2:13:34you will be given the opportunity to
2:13:37either wave it and say that's fine i'll
2:13:40just go on my own free will
2:13:43or you can fight it
2:13:45and say no i don't want to go back to
2:13:47terrorism what if i say i go on my own
2:13:49free well of course i would go yeah
2:13:51at that point the judge would say okay
2:13:53she's not fighting this so
2:13:55come get her
2:14:08and then you'll be transformed
2:14:10transferred transferred over to
2:14:13the maricopa county jail in phoenix
2:14:17and you will start your court
2:14:18proceedings there
2:14:20and
2:14:22i've already filed these charges
2:14:26it went to a grand jury and a grantor
2:14:28indicted you
2:14:30so it's all public now
2:14:32it's public record
2:14:33so does everyone know if somebody goes
2:14:35on checks public record they can check
2:14:38and they would come up with an
2:14:39indictment against you from work but
2:14:41it's going to be on the news tonight
2:14:43we don't report anything to the news
2:14:46has his family called today
2:14:48no
2:14:49they don't even know that i'm talking to
2:14:51you but they've been calling every day
2:14:53every day
2:14:54are you gonna talk to them every day
2:14:58how would you feel if your little
2:14:59brother or sister was killed
2:15:01i've been wanting to call every day too
2:15:03i didn't want to look obsessive so i
2:15:05just tried to limit it to once a week
2:15:15will i be able to see my family vodka i
2:15:17don't know
2:15:18i don't know i don't know what their
2:15:20procedures are here at this channel in
2:15:21this county um can i talk to somebody
2:15:23about my affairs that need to be taken
2:15:25care of you'll have to do it over the
2:15:27phone or they'll have to come visit you
2:15:29i don't know i'd have to get over the
2:15:31phone because the person that would take
2:15:32care of my stuff lives far away
2:15:39are we done
2:15:42how long is it all going to take you did
2:15:43you write paperwork i don't know i need
2:15:45to go see
2:15:48the procedures are different here in
2:15:50california than they are in arizona i'm
2:15:52used to the procedures in arizona
2:15:54so i'm getting help from this county and
2:15:56the deputies here and they're assisting
2:15:58me so i need to get with them and find
2:16:00out how long it's going to take um this
2:16:02is a really trivial question and it's
2:16:04going to reveal how shallow i am
2:16:08but before they book me can i clean
2:16:10myself up a little bit you're going to
2:16:12be taken to what you are
2:16:15i can't give you anything else
2:16:18how soon
2:16:20i don't know
2:16:21like five minutes two hours say within
2:16:24an hour
2:16:26okay could be five minutes it could be
2:16:2850 minutes
2:16:29i need to go talk to my associates here
2:16:36and if at any time you feel like you
2:16:38need to tell me something
2:16:39you just go ahead and approach
2:16:44me um okay
2:16:47can i use the bathroom yeah i'll get
2:16:49someone to come take you
2:16:52um
2:16:53you know i'm not like violent i'm not
2:16:55gonna run it's my rika so i mean do i
2:16:58have to go in handcuffs everywhere
2:17:00it's just procedure
2:17:06whether you wrote a bad check or
2:17:08you're facing merchant charges
2:17:11you kind of go in
2:17:12handcuffs that's just the way it is
2:17:16okay
2:17:17okay i'll take
2:17:20different precautions for different
2:17:21people it's the same for everybody
2:17:24so i'm sorry
2:17:26you don't
2:17:28when i can start making a phone call or
2:17:29two once you get booked into the jail do
2:17:32you know how many again
2:17:34uh if it's like ours they give you a
2:17:36phone and you can make as many collect
2:17:37calls as you want
2:17:39oh
2:17:41okay
2:17:43okay let me see if there's somebody to
2:17:45take to the restroom
2:17:48it's not too urgent but like within the
2:17:50next 10 minutes
2:18:04all right
2:18:05um
2:18:06you want to go ahead and stand up for me
2:18:09as i take these cuffs off um just go
2:18:11ahead and put your hands down at the
2:18:13waist okay
2:18:20one of these especially these types of
2:18:22cuffs aren't the most comfortable
2:18:24i don't think they're really designed
2:18:25for comfort nope they're not
2:18:35okay
2:18:40you're not going to give us any problems
2:18:42being out of the cuffs
2:18:43i really don't look like the types of
2:18:45wood
2:18:54yes
2:19:16okay
2:19:20today's date is um
2:19:23july 16th
2:19:25and my name is detective rachel blaney
2:19:27um and i'm here with jodi arias is that
2:19:29how you see yourself aries okay i'm
2:19:31sorry
2:19:32this is just formality um and
2:19:35this is you know if i have to you know
2:19:37write up a report of what we talked
2:19:39about at least i know word for word you
2:19:40know what you said and there's no
2:19:41mistakes okay so it's it's for your own
2:19:45protection or good that we record it um
2:19:48and before we go any further i need to
2:19:51read your miranda rights again just to
2:19:53make sure um that you understand
2:19:55um you have the right to remain silent
2:19:57do you understand yes anything you say
2:20:00may be used against you in court do you
2:20:01understand yes
2:20:03you have the right to the presence of an
2:20:04attorney before and during any
2:20:05questioning do you understand yes
2:20:07if you cannot afford an attorney one
2:20:09will be appointed for you free of charge
2:20:11before any questioning if you want do
2:20:12you understand that
2:20:14okay um
2:20:18the reason that i wanted to talk with
2:20:20you this morning
2:20:23there's a couple of reasons actually um
2:20:26i have been privy to the investigation
2:20:30and all of the evidence in this case
2:20:34and
2:20:35to
2:20:36your conversation with detective flores
2:20:39yesterday
2:20:40and
2:20:43there's
2:20:44there's really no
2:20:46um
2:20:48let me say this it's it's obvious to me
2:20:50that
2:20:51you know you're not um you're not our
2:20:53typical suspect you know you you come
2:20:55from
2:20:56a good home a good family
2:20:58your parents obviously care about you
2:21:00that was evident you know when they
2:21:01talked to them yesterday
2:21:04and you're a bright girl
2:21:07probably more intelligent than you were
2:21:09letting on yesterday
2:21:11and
2:21:14there's no question in
2:21:17my mind or any of the other
2:21:18investigators mind
2:21:21that
2:21:22you were the person
2:21:24that
2:21:26took
2:21:27travis's life
2:21:30but what i need to know
2:21:32or what i'd like to know and give you
2:21:34the opportunity to do
2:21:36is
2:21:37determine whether
2:21:39you know you're
2:21:40a cold-blooded cold-hearted um
2:21:43murderer
2:21:45who slaughtered this guy or
2:21:48are you somebody that got caught up in
2:21:50circumstances
2:21:51and things got out of control because i
2:21:53think that is what happened honestly and
2:21:56looking at everything and all of the
2:21:58facts and and talking to people
2:22:01um
2:22:03you know it
2:22:04i think in every person
2:22:07that
2:22:09anybody could be capable
2:22:11of harming another person i think it's
2:22:14it's in our nature and and generally
2:22:16most people suppress that
2:22:18but i think given the right
2:22:19circumstances
2:22:21and you know the right time in the right
2:22:22place anybody could be you know capable
2:22:24of harming another person i see that on
2:22:27a regular basis
2:22:28um
2:22:29what i generally see are the you know
2:22:31the the cold-hearted ruthless types
2:22:35what i don't see very often jody are
2:22:38people like yourself that are
2:22:39intelligent and spiritual and caring and
2:22:44so i tend to believe that
2:22:49it was an
2:22:50uh incident of circumstance if you will
2:22:53um
2:22:56it looks as if you know this guy travis
2:23:00um
2:23:02you know befriended you you got into
2:23:03this relationship
2:23:05and it certainly looks to me like he's
2:23:06he took advantage of your generosity and
2:23:08your kindness
2:23:10um
2:23:12you know one of the other detectives had
2:23:13described him to you as a player
2:23:16um
2:23:19and i i don't think that that's very far
2:23:21off from everything that i've seen
2:23:23and i don't think there's a woman out
2:23:25there that hasn't been um
2:23:27treated badly or taken advantage of by a
2:23:30man like that
2:23:34and i'm hoping
2:23:36because
2:23:38you come from a good family and because
2:23:39you have a you know a decent background
2:23:41i'm hoping that you'll be smart about
2:23:43things and make some choices for
2:23:45yourself
2:23:46to help better your situation
2:23:50when
2:23:52this hits the news
2:23:57and it will it'll go to the media
2:24:00do you want to be portrayed
2:24:02as
2:24:04that cold-blooded cold-hearted murderer
2:24:06because the media loves that
2:24:08that's not you know that won't be our
2:24:10words um or their words when they do a
2:24:12press release but that's what you know
2:24:14the media will take a look at the facts
2:24:15and that's what they'll portray it as
2:24:17or
2:24:19do you want to be portrayed as a person
2:24:21that didn't didn't mean to have any of
2:24:23this happen it just got out of hand and
2:24:25you're remorseful
2:24:27you know which
2:24:28which way do you want to go
2:24:30how do you want to portray yourself
2:24:38you're a businesswoman is that correct
2:24:41okay
2:24:43and you have a couple of different
2:24:44businesses going right
2:24:46so you're smart girl jody smart woman
2:24:50um
2:24:53you gotta have a lot on the ball to be
2:24:56you know
2:24:57your own business woman and
2:25:01balancing everything the way you do
2:25:03because it sounds like you got a lot
2:25:04going on and a lot of juggling and
2:25:05balancing you're obviously very
2:25:07organized
2:25:08well-read um i would say well-read but
2:25:11not organized not organized
2:25:13why so
2:25:14um
2:25:16i just
2:25:17i procrastinate so things papers pile up
2:25:20and things don't get filed on time and
2:25:22um i lose stuff
2:25:24and then i find it later when i don't
2:25:25need it anymore you know i do need it i
2:25:27can't find it so okay just general stuff
2:25:30like that well maybe you're not as
2:25:31organized as i as i have thought
2:25:35so i try i mean i go through these
2:25:37periods where it's like today is devoted
2:25:38to organization and then i'll get
2:25:40organized and it'll be that way for a
2:25:41little while and i'll kind of let it
2:25:42slide and then i'll have to go back and
2:25:44clean up again
2:25:47all right
2:25:48so
2:25:52i think that you know the reason you're
2:25:53here is i think that you should have the
2:25:55just at least one more shot at um
2:25:58you know the opportunity to
2:26:03do the right thing
2:26:05you know you say that you're spiritual
2:26:07or those are my words not yours but
2:26:09that's certainly what i got out of um
2:26:12you know reading everything and looking
2:26:13at everything that
2:26:14um you know you have a
2:26:17some sort of relationship
2:26:19with god or you know some sort of deep
2:26:21spirituality and so did travis
2:26:24and um it sounds like you know you you
2:26:27cared about what what travis's family
2:26:29thought of him
2:26:31maybe what they thought of you i don't
2:26:33know whether you ever met them
2:26:34i met his grandmother okay
2:26:37were they good people yeah
2:26:40and um i didn't meet his family at his
2:26:43services but i saw
2:26:44some of his sisters and he talked about
2:26:46them a lot and he talked about how proud
2:26:48he was of all of his brothers and
2:26:50sisters because they come from a rough
2:26:52background but they've all done really
2:26:54well
2:26:56i would imagine that
2:26:58keeping all of this
2:27:00in i can only imagine because i've never
2:27:03been there myself
2:27:04but i can only imagine that keeping all
2:27:06of this in is just tearing you apart
2:27:08inside
2:27:10um
2:27:12it's not hard to tell that you know you
2:27:15have portrayed yourself as being very
2:27:17strong
2:27:18but you can see it in your eyes jody
2:27:21it's not like you know it's not that i
2:27:24can detect my my dad said that detective
2:27:26flores told him that i was just cold
2:27:28yesterday and it's not that i'm cold
2:27:31i'm just resolute
2:27:33and it's not that i haven't cried and
2:27:35it's all i've done for the last month
2:27:37you know and i've got to go to work in
2:27:39part time and at my job i need to be a
2:27:41happy cheery person so i've gotten to
2:27:43suppress all of that and put on an act
2:27:45while i'm on the clock
2:27:47and if i'm going to get any more clients
2:27:49for my business i've got to be an
2:27:50attractive person in my personality so
2:27:53it's it's not like
2:27:56it's not like i haven't
2:27:59been grieving him since i heard about
2:28:02him
2:28:04well
2:28:07you know you have an image i understand
2:28:09that you have an image to hold and you
2:28:10have to portray you know that you're
2:28:12together savvy
2:28:14woman
2:28:14you know not somebody who's fallen apart
2:28:16so that's understandable
2:28:20but fall apart when people aren't
2:28:22looking and when it's at night and i go
2:28:24to sleep travis always used to call me
2:28:27not always but very frequently so that's
2:28:30the hardest part is when i go to sleep
2:28:32at night and if he wasn't calling then
2:28:33i'd just call him and
2:28:35sometimes i would just call anyway just
2:28:37hear his voicemail
2:28:44so let me go back to
2:28:48you know the choices that you have
2:28:50because again
2:28:53there's no doubt in anybody's mind what
2:28:55happened that day there's no doubt that
2:28:57you were involved
2:28:59that day that travis died listen i know
2:29:02that i wasn't involved in travis's death
2:29:04okay um
2:29:06and
2:29:07but what we hold on what you need to
2:29:09decide
2:29:11is
2:29:12do you want to be portrayed is that
2:29:14cold-blooded killer
2:29:16oh that's what i was getting at or do
2:29:18you want to be portrayed as somebody
2:29:19that was taken advantage of and um
2:29:23you know things just one thing led to
2:29:25another you thought your relationship
2:29:27was headed in one direction and it
2:29:28wasn't or you know i i don't know
2:29:30exactly the circumstances because i
2:29:32wasn't there
2:29:33but
2:29:34i would certainly certainly think that
2:29:36it's to your benefit to
2:29:38appear as this is something that just
2:29:39happened you didn't plan it it was you
2:29:42know um
2:29:43it was a heated moment and uh you didn't
2:29:45mean to hurt him
2:29:47because you didn't mean to hurt him did
2:29:48you i've hurt him
2:29:51very much emotionally and i never meant
2:29:53to hurt him because he said this is more
2:29:55than the death of his father
2:29:57and i i believe that um
2:29:59you know how how are you going to come
2:30:01clean with yourself you know between you
2:30:03and and
2:30:05god
2:30:06um if you can't even you know look his
2:30:08family in the face and show remorse
2:30:15i don't think that you're
2:30:18a bad person i don't think that you
2:30:20meant any of this to happen i think that
2:30:22things got out of control and you didn't
2:30:24know what to do and you panicked
2:30:28and i would certainly like your parents
2:30:30to see that your friends to see that
2:30:33instead of
2:30:35the cold-hearted killer that the
2:30:36evidence
2:30:38is screaming to show
2:30:42and this is you know at a certain point
2:30:45you gotta you gotta do what's right
2:30:47you know
2:30:48you gotta
2:30:50you gotta make things right for yourself
2:30:52because otherwise it's gonna eat inside
2:30:55of you you're gonna be sitting in that
2:30:56cell with all of this churning inside of
2:30:58you it's going to eat you up
2:31:05just because i'm a cop doesn't mean that
2:31:06i don't care
2:31:08you know about humanity and people
2:31:13you know i'm not sitting here judging
2:31:14you
2:31:16i'm trying to help you out
2:31:20i'm trying to give you a chance to to
2:31:21make things right
2:31:24you know
2:31:25show the families that you do have some
2:31:26remorse
2:31:30you know apologize for the things that
2:31:32you've done if that's what makes you
2:31:33feel better you know whatever it is
2:31:38but when you continue to deny deny deny
2:31:40when it's obvious that
2:31:42that's not the case you appear to be
2:31:47the cold-blooded killer
2:31:51you know there's
2:31:54and the media is going to feed off of
2:31:56that
2:31:58you know when this when this goes to
2:32:00trial the media is there it's not it's
2:32:02not kept secret
2:32:05you know do you want to be out there in
2:32:08like the o.j simpsons
2:32:11because nobody felt sorry for him
2:32:14you know nobody um nobody respected him
2:32:17afterwards
2:32:19even though he maintained
2:32:21his innocence
2:32:24how do you how do you want to be
2:32:25portrayed
2:32:27do you want to be portrayed as the the
2:32:29person that you are the you know a
2:32:31decent person
2:32:32who's had some tough times and and you
2:32:35know
2:32:36just didn't make the right choices at
2:32:37the time
2:32:39or do you want to be portrayed as a
2:32:40person that doesn't care about anybody
2:32:42or anything
2:32:50you know of course i don't want to be
2:32:51portrayed as a cold-blooded murderer
2:32:54that's i believe that
2:32:58i believe that um
2:33:00everybody
2:33:01everybody wants to tell the truth
2:33:05because
2:33:06to keep that lie in
2:33:09tears you up emotionally physically
2:33:12mentally
2:33:14i see that over and over and over again
2:33:16with people
2:33:20and i believe that you don't want to be
2:33:21portrayed in the negative light that
2:33:23i've already
2:33:24and i'm not making that stuff up i mean
2:33:26that's just reality jody
2:33:31that's the way our society works that's
2:33:33the way this world works
2:33:42and things are going to start moving
2:33:43real fast here for you
2:33:45this is kind of a pause
2:33:47you know before things you know start
2:33:49getting heavy this is this is your
2:33:51opportunity to help yourself out
2:33:56when the jury looks at it
2:33:59those are the things that they're going
2:34:01to be mulling around in their mind
2:34:05when they decide what type of sentence
2:34:07to hand out
2:34:09or when they make a recommendation to
2:34:11the judge
2:34:15those are the sorts of things that turn
2:34:17a jury
2:34:22and
2:34:24the juries
2:34:25sometimes can be fickle
2:34:28but i've i've never seen a case with so
2:34:31much
2:34:32concrete hard evidence
2:34:37we don't need you to tell us anything
2:34:41i'm doing this
2:34:44for you
2:34:50arizona's case
2:34:51goes no matter what they've got a rock
2:34:53solid case
2:35:00so what you say
2:35:02is basically irrelevant to their case
2:35:05not relevant but
2:35:07it's not going to make it any better for
2:35:09them
2:35:11but it certainly can help you out
2:35:13how can it help me i mean how can when i
2:35:15tell you today affect the media
2:35:18um
2:35:21you
2:35:22take control of the situation as much as
2:35:24you can and paint whatever kind of
2:35:26picture you want to pick up paint of
2:35:28yourself
2:35:30nobody's going to believe that you
2:35:31didn't do it after they see the evidence
2:35:35it's just it is what it is
2:35:37but
2:35:38it's a matter of do you want to take
2:35:40control of your situation
2:35:42and paint the picture of who you are
2:35:45because you're the only one that knows
2:35:46that
2:35:47or do you want the media
2:35:50to to take the evidence all of the facts
2:35:53and the information and paint their own
2:35:54picture of you
2:35:57and as smart as you are
2:35:58you know as well as i do that the media
2:36:00doesn't like to paint warm and fuzzy
2:36:02pictures they would much rather paint
2:36:04the vicious
2:36:06cold-blooded killer because that sells
2:36:12am i right
2:36:17so do you want to control your situation
2:36:20paint your own picture
2:36:23or do you want to let somebody else do
2:36:24that for you
2:36:27i don't feel like i have any control
2:36:28over what the media says anyway
2:36:30well you do to a certain degree you can
2:36:33have you can have the opportunity to
2:36:35tell your side of the story you know was
2:36:37it a matter of um
2:36:40like i said
2:36:41this guy
2:36:44travis
2:36:48building some sort of what you thought
2:36:49was some sort of relationship you know
2:36:51were you were you hoping for marriage
2:36:53because i've heard a lot of talk about
2:36:55you know possibilities of marriage and
2:36:57and i know that that is um
2:37:00you know a cornerstone
2:37:02of your faith
2:37:03is marriage and family is this something
2:37:05that you were hoping for was he was he
2:37:07leading you down that path
2:37:10um you know did he take advantage of you
2:37:14um
2:37:16was there were there promises made that
2:37:19um
2:37:20were broken did he betray your trust in
2:37:22some way i don't know
2:37:24only you know that
2:37:29but certainly if that was the situation
2:37:33they would look at you in a better light
2:37:35than if you just went in there and just
2:37:37killed the guy just because
2:37:39just because you're a cold hearted
2:37:40person
2:37:41you know the reasons the reasons why are
2:37:44what's going to give you
2:37:47better portrayal
2:37:50a better light
2:37:51that you're portrayed in
2:37:54that's why the reasons why are so
2:37:56important to you and that's how you can
2:37:59take control
2:38:01when you leave um you know cisco county
2:38:04and go back to arizona which eventually
2:38:06you will
2:38:07whether you fight the extradition or not
2:38:09that's just kind of a
2:38:11um
2:38:12an inevitability
2:38:15yeah um
2:38:18it's gonna happen eventually
2:38:21you're not gonna have the opportunity to
2:38:23do this
2:38:24again
2:38:26um and i'm you know i'm certainly
2:38:30um you know not going back to arizona i
2:38:33won't have the opportunity
2:38:35and and the shot will be gone what is
2:38:38your role though i mean you're
2:38:40detected this is our jurisdiction
2:38:44it's our county
2:38:46so
2:38:47you know part of this investigation if
2:38:48you will is on us
2:38:50um
2:38:52so i've i've taken an interest um in
2:38:56this case you know i i saw you and i
2:38:58read all this information and i'm like
2:39:00man you know she's not she's not the
2:39:03typical person that we see in here
2:39:08can i ask a couple questions
2:39:10sure um not personal questions um
2:39:14i know i understand they took some of my
2:39:16stuff yesterday
2:39:17where does all that go does it go to
2:39:19arizona um it'll it'll be transferred to
2:39:21arizona it's held in evidence there's a
2:39:23list of everything that was taken and
2:39:26um a copy of that was left at each
2:39:29location at each location and it was a
2:39:31carbon copy so my parents couldn't read
2:39:32it all my grandparents couldn't read
2:39:34everything but they told me some of the
2:39:36things and some of things were like my
2:39:37camera for example just fine i
2:39:39understand that my concern is other
2:39:41people um for example i'm a wedding
2:39:43photographer and i just did a wedding on
2:39:45friday
2:39:46and
2:39:47i feel bad for brian and his wife katie
2:39:49because
2:39:50those are their wedding pictures that's
2:39:52all they have for their wedding
2:39:55and i just want to know when they'll be
2:39:56able to get through many pictures
2:39:58i don't know when i don't know how you
2:40:01know that this could go on for quite a
2:40:03while the only thing they have to
2:40:04remember in the day they're not going to
2:40:06destroy the wedding pictures they're not
2:40:07going to get rid of them or anything
2:40:08like that
2:40:10you know and i
2:40:11i just take pride in my work and i guess
2:40:13you know i'm not going to have a chance
2:40:14to edit them and make them really
2:40:15beautiful like they already turned out
2:40:17really good but
2:40:18you know like photoshop i just do all
2:40:20kinds of neat effects and they just they
2:40:22turn out like magic and so
2:40:25that won't be the case this time but at
2:40:27least that the hard files are there for
2:40:29them and you know if they're not going
2:40:31to get them forever and ever it's gonna
2:40:33suck for them but as long as they get
2:40:34them eventually eventually
2:40:37and also
2:40:38i think that
2:40:39you know
2:40:40go ahead
2:40:41um
2:40:42my sister
2:40:44i don't know what her problem is i mean
2:40:46she's far less messed up than i am i
2:40:48guess but she's
2:40:50she's in a program right now in klamath
2:40:52falls
2:40:53um for
2:40:54until the end of august
2:40:57rehabilitating from something
2:40:59and um my mom
2:41:02we write her you know we only get to
2:41:04talk to her once a week and my mom was
2:41:05going to um
2:41:07send pictures because i have on
2:41:10my my um
2:41:12external drive i have a bunch of
2:41:14pictures of her and i that we just were
2:41:17doing this with just taking pictures of
2:41:18each other on on her prom night because
2:41:20i helped her do her hair and
2:41:22i helped her you know just take pictures
2:41:25and then i dropped her off and
2:41:27she just wanted some of those to have um
2:41:31and she's all done glamorous and she's
2:41:32like i can't remember what i look like
2:41:34without makeup and i did a photo shoot
2:41:36with my little brother last week and
2:41:38they turned out really good and she
2:41:40wanted those pictures too she doesn't
2:41:42have access to any of them now and those
2:41:44are all family treasures
2:41:46and i did that of course because it's
2:41:48for them and it's you know
2:41:50but um
2:41:52i would have made her a cd but my my cd
2:41:55rom just wasn't working right and i
2:41:58didn't get around to making it because i
2:42:00didn't have the proper tools to do it
2:42:02and she just wants those to mail to
2:42:05angela
2:42:07well see these are the sorts of things
2:42:09that you know paint a picture of a good
2:42:11decent person where things just went a
2:42:13little wrong
2:42:14you know you showing so much concern and
2:42:16care
2:42:18do you know what happened to my journals
2:42:19too
2:42:20um
2:42:21you know i wasn't there when i know they
2:42:23said they took one i don't know if they
2:42:24took my other ones where were your other
2:42:26ones in my fireproof safe okay
2:42:29i'm not sure there's a
2:42:31they have a hard copy you know an actual
2:42:33copy um
2:42:34original copy
2:42:36um
2:42:37um if you want my journals it documents
2:42:40the entire time starting from when i
2:42:42moved to arizona up until
2:42:44two or three days ago where does that
2:42:45say that is that it in my bed they said
2:42:47they fought through it okay well then if
2:42:50there was anything i don't know if they
2:42:51felt it was necessary but you know i'm
2:42:54sure there's travis got a lot of ink in
2:42:56my journals i don't know it doesn't
2:42:58matter now because i know you guys think
2:42:59what you think but
2:43:00um
2:43:02it's not you know
2:43:04the job of the detectives
2:43:06any detective is
2:43:08to determine you know what happened
2:43:10whether a person um
2:43:12you know is there evidence that would
2:43:14clear you evidence that would convict
2:43:15you etc
2:43:17we're totally neutral going in
2:43:19and it's not a matter of you know our
2:43:21opinion and what we think
2:43:23it's a matter of taking a look at all of
2:43:25the evidence and knowing
2:43:27and
2:43:28you know
2:43:29i think
2:43:30you're not grasping the reality of this
2:43:33situation
2:43:35and hearing you know what your concerns
2:43:36are you should be concerned for yourself
2:43:39right now you should be fighting for
2:43:41yourself
2:43:44this is this is not gonna go away
2:43:46anytime soon for you jody
2:43:50you know you're a young you're a young
2:43:52woman um just starting your life
2:43:56you had a lot going for you
2:43:58you should be fighting for yourself
2:44:00right now
2:44:01there's really nothing to fight for if i
2:44:03fight
2:44:04it just if you fart if you fight and if
2:44:07i
2:44:08if i give you some false confession that
2:44:10just makes it look just as bad no
2:44:12there's really nothing they don't want a
2:44:13false confession that's that's
2:44:15absolutely not what anybody ever wants
2:44:18ever
2:44:20i was just hoping to give you the
2:44:22opportunity to show to show the world to
2:44:24show the community to show the jury
2:44:27to show travis's family
2:44:32that you do have a heart that you do
2:44:34care that you are a good person
2:44:38and maybe things went askew that day
2:44:43i'm
2:44:44i'm giving you scenarios with what
2:44:46happened that day because i wasn't there
2:44:48i i don't know you know the emotions
2:44:50that led up to it
2:44:52there was obviously a lot of emotion
2:44:55that's very clear
2:44:57there was a lot of emotion that day and
2:44:59what happened
2:45:01and so i'm giving i'm trying
2:45:04it's like it's kind of like pulling
2:45:05teeth here and trying to give you the
2:45:07opportunity to help yourself
2:45:11to show the world to show the community
2:45:15to show travis's family that you're
2:45:17you do have remorse that you are a good
2:45:19person
2:45:22and that doesn't benefit me in any way
2:45:25i i get no benefit out of this you know
2:45:27my my job pays the same whether i'm
2:45:29sitting here or at home whatever
2:45:32i'm just i was trying to give you that
2:45:34opportunity and i i asked if i could
2:45:36talk to you
2:45:38today
2:45:40to do that
2:45:43makes no difference to me
2:45:47not personally
2:45:49but it sure can make a difference for
2:45:51you
2:45:56and you let this eat at you
2:46:00and it's going to destroy you
2:46:03or change you
2:46:06in a way that you wouldn't want
2:46:12and it comes a time in somebody's life
2:46:15there's always
2:46:17a pinnacle in somebody's life
2:46:21where you have the opportunity to define
2:46:23who you are
2:46:25do you want
2:46:27the murder of travis to define who you
2:46:29are
2:46:30or do you want to take control of that
2:46:31and do it yourself
2:46:35everybody makes mistakes some bigger
2:46:37than others
2:46:39and i think this is the time in your
2:46:40life
2:46:41i'm trying to tell you this is the time
2:46:43jody
2:46:46this is the time to take control more
2:46:48than you've ever done before
2:46:53and at least show the people that you
2:46:55love and care about that you have
2:46:56remorse and that you have a heart
2:47:03because when they sit there and they see
2:47:05somebody it's just stone cold
2:47:09and saying they didn't do it when it's
2:47:11clear to everybody that
2:47:12that you did
2:47:14that's what they're going to see
2:47:16is a stone cold person
2:47:20this is your opportunity
2:47:22to change that
2:47:27you can't change what happened
2:47:29you can't go back and undo it it's a
2:47:31done
2:47:32deal but hopefully you're smart enough
2:47:35to realize
2:47:37that you can have a little bit of
2:47:38control
2:47:40of how you're portrayed
2:47:48i don't think that you're a bad person i
2:47:50don't think that you meant
2:47:53to hurt him i think that you really
2:47:54cared about him and that you loved him
2:47:57and that's why there was so much emotion
2:47:59in that day
2:48:01i'm not sure the circumstances
2:48:03the conversations that led up to it i
2:48:06can only see the result
2:48:12i think
2:48:14that things got a little heated
2:48:19you you know were
2:48:21angry or upset or disappointed
2:48:24betrayed whatever the emotion was
2:48:27and things got out of control we both
2:48:30have betrayed each other but it was so
2:48:32long ago
2:48:33you know we've and we the last time we
2:48:35even talked about marriage on a serious
2:48:37level was when we were still dating over
2:48:39a year ago and last time and he proposed
2:48:42to me once he posted me a lot of times
2:48:44but he wasn't always serious just kind
2:48:46of said marry me you know it was a joke
2:48:48um and how did that make you feel when
2:48:50he said marry me as a joke i mean did
2:48:52you want it no not after we had broken
2:48:54up he was kind of like laughs like it's
2:48:56really kind that he would joke like that
2:48:58um we would laugh
2:48:59you know and and i took it as a
2:49:01compliment because it's when i did
2:49:02something that maybe in his eyes he saw
2:49:05me as as a good person and so he'd be
2:49:07like wow this is a good girl hear me it
2:49:09was it was more of a compliment it
2:49:10wasn't a serious proposal
2:49:12um
2:49:13you know so marriage i just as much as i
2:49:16love travis i just have always there's
2:49:18something inside that says he's not the
2:49:20guy you're gonna marry so then what was
2:49:22it what was it that
2:49:23that led up to all of this i mean
2:49:25there's got to be something so i
2:49:27honestly don't believe that you know
2:49:29that you're cold-hearted and you you
2:49:31would just go and just you know kill
2:49:32somebody on a whim that doesn't fit your
2:49:35profile
2:49:36so what was it that that led up to that
2:49:40you know you you tell me
2:49:41you tell them
2:49:44you tell you know travis's family
2:49:49what was it that you know pushed you to
2:49:51your limit
2:49:56i'm just trying to fill in the the holes
2:49:58there you know and just kind of guessing
2:50:00about the emotions
2:50:02you know what was it that would make you
2:50:04you know so angry or upset
2:50:10and if you're smart you'll realize that
2:50:13you know
2:50:16you're not going to get a whole lot of
2:50:17other chances to do this probably not
2:50:22the the wheels start turning they move
2:50:24real fast
2:50:25and you will be out of control then
2:50:31you won't have control over
2:50:34your destiny so to speak
2:50:41you know what about your your
2:50:42spirituality
2:50:46and
2:50:46your beliefs
2:50:48with god
2:50:50you know if you continue to lie to
2:50:51yourself
2:50:52and all of us that's one thing but god
2:50:55knows
2:50:57he knows what's in your heart
2:51:07doesn't the
2:51:09mormon religion
2:51:16want you to repent
2:51:18for what you've done
2:51:25you know i'm a spiritual person myself
2:51:27and i
2:51:29i don't think
2:51:31that
2:51:32i would want that
2:51:34you know inside of me
2:51:37i wouldn't want all of the ugliness of
2:51:39the lies inside of me
2:51:46and i'm not going to sit here all day
2:51:48you know and and try to convince you to
2:51:51do something
2:51:52for yourself if you're not willing to
2:51:54help yourself
2:51:56but i just wanted to give you that
2:51:57chance this morning
2:52:01it's it's clear
2:52:03it's crystal clear to anybody who looks
2:52:05at this case
2:52:07there is no doubt in my mind there's no
2:52:10doubt in any of the investigators mind
2:52:13that you are the spirit the person
2:52:15responsible for travis's death
2:52:17it's just a matter of
2:52:19how do you want to portray yourself now
2:52:21jody
2:52:23are you the cold blooded killer
2:52:25or
2:52:27are you a victim of circumstance
2:52:31was it
2:52:32in the heat of passion or was it
2:52:35calculated
2:52:38and planned out and executed
2:52:42which one is it going to be
2:52:44that's how you can control things
2:52:46for yourself right now
2:53:00i don't think you're the type of person
2:53:02that can sit there during a trial and
2:53:04see travis's family sitting over there
2:53:06and continue to maintain that lie in
2:53:07yourself without it tearing you up
2:53:15i don't think i could either
2:53:19you have an opportunity
2:53:21you can't bring him back he can't bring
2:53:23his life back
2:53:24but you can at least
2:53:27make things right within yourself
2:53:33and that ultimately is going to probably
2:53:34help out your situation
2:53:55nobody wants to believe even you know
2:53:57your friends i'm sure i haven't talked
2:53:58to any of your friends
2:54:00but i know that your family doesn't want
2:54:02to believe
2:54:03that you're that person
2:54:10help them understand what happened and
2:54:13why
2:54:15so that they
2:54:16they're not stuck with that
2:54:19that image of you
2:54:30the only image they're going to be stuck
2:54:32with
2:54:32is jody in a big orange suit
2:54:37yeah but does jody have a heart or is it
2:54:39cold and ice they know it's like what my
2:54:42heart is like they raised me
2:54:44and they've lived around me forever
2:54:48how about the rest of the people that
2:54:49just know you um as far as an image
2:54:52that doesn't know you personally
2:54:55do you care about that i care
2:54:57how about travis's family
2:54:59i care very much about travis's family
2:55:01and i can't alter the way they think
2:55:03they hate me regardless
2:55:05it's true that their um
2:55:08their feelings are probably always going
2:55:10to be negative about you um
2:55:12you know you took their son's life they
2:55:14they can never get over them
2:55:17it's clear to everybody what happened
2:55:20but i was hoping that you were smart
2:55:22enough to realize the situation the
2:55:24reality of the situation
2:55:26and
2:55:27wanted to help yourself out
2:55:30whether you want to maintain the charade
2:55:33which isn't going to get you anywhere
2:55:35or whether you want to do the right
2:55:37thing
2:55:47you're the one that's got to live with
2:55:48yourself you know
2:55:50you're the one that's got to look those
2:55:51people in the eye
2:55:56i have one more question it's not that i
2:55:57haven't been listening to what you're
2:55:59saying it's unrelated um
2:56:01but when they took my purse i had 240 in
2:56:03cash and um from what i understand
2:56:07this thing over in the jail they either
2:56:09you have money on your books so you can
2:56:10get things like
2:56:12shampoo or whatever i don't know what i
2:56:14would even need there
2:56:16um
2:56:18but what happens to my cash money
2:56:21well it's first of all they count it all
2:56:22out and document it so there's no
2:56:24question of you know what was there
2:56:27um i can i don't know
2:56:30what the procedure is not really maybe
2:56:31it's not your area your responsibility
2:56:33but who do i talk to about that because
2:56:34my parents don't have money to just keep
2:56:36doling out and
2:56:37making the collect calls there all the
2:56:39time or whatever so
2:56:41well i i can certainly talk with the
2:56:44detectives and and putting a request for
2:56:46you and i'll do that
2:56:48i don't i don't go back on my words
2:56:53and i you know i don't know how much
2:56:55longer you know you want to sit here and
2:56:57listen to me talking but um i was hoping
2:57:00to kind of drill something into your
2:57:02head and wake you up
2:57:04and show you how you can help yourself
2:57:12maybe you're giving me more credit than
2:57:15i deserve for being smart
2:57:17i don't think so i just don't see how
2:57:19any of that could help
2:57:27what if it could wouldn't you want to do
2:57:28everything you could to help yourself
2:57:32i don't i think that my situation is
2:57:35hopeless and i don't think that i can
2:57:36help myself
2:57:43don't be sorry to me
2:57:49are you sorry for what happened to him
2:57:51of course
2:57:52that's awful what happened to him
2:57:57did you ever show me any pictures but he
2:57:59showed me the carpet
2:58:05it was pretty horrific
2:58:09you know dress
2:58:10it was very strong
2:58:12i watched it work out a couple of times
2:58:15it's super intense never my dad has
2:58:17worked out all my life he's been
2:58:19a bodybuilder sort of not professional
2:58:21it's just always been really big and
2:58:23seeing him work out but i've never seen
2:58:25anyone work out like travis and it's
2:58:28he he's just
2:58:30a couple times he was really into ufc a
2:58:32couple times
2:58:33he would show me some wrestling moves
2:58:35and like it
2:58:37i was just powerless like there's no
2:58:39there's no way out of it
2:58:42well i tell you what i'm going to take a
2:58:44break for a couple of minutes um
2:58:46you still got some water is going to
2:58:48give you some more water
2:58:51yeah if you could bring one more pretty
2:58:53nice take a minute just to think about
2:58:55what i said
2:58:56and
2:58:58i'll leave you alone while i'll do that
2:59:26jody i
2:59:28i'm i'm really confused i
2:59:32maybe i did have a wrong picture of you
2:59:36you know
2:59:37all of this time that
2:59:39you and i have been talking and i got
2:59:42information from your other interview
2:59:46you are talking about insignificant
2:59:49things at this point you're talking
2:59:50about money you're talking about
2:59:52material things you're talking about
2:59:54everything but i'm just telling you
2:59:56you're talking about justice
2:59:59you're talking about everything but
3:00:03how
3:00:04bad you feel about travis you only
3:00:06respond to my questions
3:00:10i would be very remorseful i think
3:00:12that i i've gotten the wrong picture of
3:00:14you i think that you know
3:00:17you know maybe i was wrong maybe maybe
3:00:19you are that cold-blooded person
3:00:21um
3:00:22that they're trying to portray and um
3:00:25you know
3:00:26i'm just really confused
3:00:28i just at this point you know
3:00:30maybe you're right maybe there isn't
3:00:32anything that you can do to help
3:00:33yourself
3:00:35um
3:00:35you know i
3:00:38maybe i was wrong
3:00:42maybe you're not as intelligent as i
3:00:43thought you were
3:00:47maybe i was wrong
3:00:53what do you think should happen to the
3:00:54person
3:00:56that murdered travis
3:00:58um you know i've never been one for um
3:01:01an eye for an eye but
3:01:03he took his life and
3:01:04even the book of mormon says that
3:01:08um
3:01:11that that that calls for the life of the
3:01:13person that took his life
3:01:18do you think that's the path that you're
3:01:20going down right now and it's inevitable
3:01:22so why fight it
3:01:25um
3:01:28i'm not sure kind of but i'm not sure
3:01:31i don't know where i'm going
3:01:35so
3:01:35tell me this
3:01:37after looking at all the evidence and
3:01:39what i think is
3:01:42crystal clear
3:01:44if you
3:01:46didn't kill travis then who did
3:01:54i he was private about a lot of aspects
3:01:56of his life
3:01:58he told me some things
3:02:00um
3:02:02some things i got from some of his you
3:02:04know facebook account email account or
3:02:07myspace or whatever because i have the
3:02:10passwords to those
3:02:11um
3:02:13but
3:02:14i don't know like
3:02:16he would get occasionally he would get
3:02:18solicitations
3:02:20but
3:02:21and he would always respond not to
3:02:23answer the solicitation but to kind of
3:02:24call the person out
3:02:26and i don't know if anything ever came
3:02:27of those
3:02:30i don't know
3:02:31i know his tires were slashed
3:02:36i don't
3:02:37i don't know
3:02:39maybe
3:02:40maybe you weren't the person that did it
3:02:42maybe
3:02:43maybe you just were physically there
3:02:45when it happened and somebody else did i
3:02:48mean i guess you know that's a
3:02:49possibility
3:02:50if that's the case you know help us out
3:02:53here help yourself out
3:02:55you know i
3:02:56i don't know what else to do for you
3:02:58here jody i'm kind of at the end of of
3:03:00my rope i was
3:03:02you're not going to get a whole lot of
3:03:03people that are trying to help you out
3:03:04along the way
3:03:05beyond this point
3:03:10if you didn't do it then
3:03:13who did
3:03:14because everything is pointing to you
3:03:16not just pointing to you but you know
3:03:20screaming
3:03:23that jody killed travis
3:03:28and i thought that i could come in here
3:03:31and talk to you and talk some you know
3:03:33sense into you and get you to you know
3:03:35kind of help yourself out you don't need
3:03:37to help our case out you don't need to
3:03:39help their case out
3:03:41that's a slam dunk
3:03:46i know he showed me
3:03:53and what i'm hearing is somebody who
3:03:55doesn't give a rep about what happened
3:03:57i'm hearing somebody that's worried
3:03:59about
3:04:00money
3:04:01your appearance everything about you
3:04:04i don't hear anything about travis
3:04:07unless you're specifically asked
3:04:10how do you think that looks
3:04:13listen
3:04:14i i don't care something no you listen
3:04:17you you are not grasping
3:04:19the reality here jody
3:04:23you know you're worried about wedding
3:04:25pictures and you know all this other
3:04:27stuff that is really insignificant liz
3:04:30my life is over
3:04:31travis's life is over
3:04:34i'm sorry about travis i didn't take his
3:04:36life
3:04:39all right well i guess i was wrong
3:04:42the reason i cared about those other
3:04:43things is because those people still
3:04:45have lives and i care about those people
3:04:47and i just they don't know where their
3:04:49stuff is you know i happen to be in a
3:04:51position of their stuff
3:04:52and so all i know is all of the innocent
3:04:55people that i've talked to that have
3:04:57been accused of a crime
3:04:59don't act the way that you do
3:05:01and
3:05:02you are acting like the
3:05:04person that i portrayed the ugly
3:05:08cold-blooded murderer
3:05:10one of the options that i portrayed that
3:05:13is how you're acting
3:05:16there is nothing in your actions that
3:05:18would indicate to me
3:05:23that
3:05:24you're the victim of circumstance
3:05:27and you're gonna be sorry you know when
3:05:28you get down the road and and
3:05:30uh agree you'll probably be sorry that
3:05:32you didn't do the right thing
3:05:34you have an opportunity to do something
3:05:36right here
3:05:38i don't know what to tell you
3:06:06show me that i wasn't wrong judy
3:06:12show me what's inside your heart and not
3:06:14what's on the exterior
3:06:28help me understand why it happened and
3:06:31that it wasn't cold and calculated and
3:06:33planned
3:06:35because that's how everything points
3:06:37right now
3:06:43you owe that at least to travis's family
3:06:48give them some closure
3:06:51because i know
3:06:52just from working with all these
3:06:53families that have lost loved ones that
3:06:56they're not struggling with who did it
3:06:58they're struggling with why
3:07:00that's what i've been struggling with
3:07:04do you do you not understand why you did
3:07:06it yourself maybe
3:07:08is it something that you know
3:07:12is it a part of a view that um came
3:07:15forth that you've never seen before
3:07:17i don't know
3:07:20i know travis's family is struggling
3:07:22with why and that would be the one thing
3:07:24that would give them closure they may
3:07:26never
3:07:27like you
3:07:30but i think that they would be
3:07:31appreciative
3:07:33of why their son's life was taken
3:07:42you can't give them your son back their
3:07:44son back
3:07:45but you can at least give them the peace
3:07:47of mind
3:07:48as to why
3:08:15i know if it was
3:08:17my child that's what i would want
3:08:26i know that you're not a mother
3:08:31but
3:08:33all women have those mothering instincts
3:08:35within them
3:08:36and i think that you can understand that
3:08:38what i'm saying
3:08:41and that's why you're hanging your head
3:08:43right now
3:09:07was i off base jody
3:09:23i can't imagine what it would be like to
3:09:25lose one of my brothers
3:09:28wouldn't you want to know why
3:09:30you lost one of your brothers
3:09:37i i've never met them i can't speak for
3:09:40them
3:09:41but i would bet
3:09:45you know
3:09:46my paycheck
3:09:48that that's what they're wondering right
3:09:50now
3:09:55and you can at least show that you have
3:09:57a soul that you have a heart
3:10:00that you understand that need in them
3:10:02and do something for somebody else
3:10:04besides yourself
3:10:09that's the least that you can do for
3:10:10them right now is give them an answer
3:10:13tell them why
3:10:16that's how you can control
3:10:18something
3:10:19that's happening in your life right now
3:10:23because you have all the power there
3:10:26it's a gift that you can give that
3:10:28family
3:10:44tell them why
3:10:46use me as the voice to tell them why
3:10:57i just don't know why
3:11:02did one thing lead to another and it
3:11:03just got out of hand
3:11:06and it's unexplainable even in your mind
3:11:11or did you have it all planned
3:11:20out you know was was he roughing you up
3:11:24and you just couldn't take it anymore
3:11:26i was was he being violent on his part
3:11:29he was only that one a couple times it
3:11:31was before i moved
3:11:38and people just i had bruises and stuff
3:11:40and people were like oh is travis
3:11:41beating you up and we're like ha ha ha
3:11:45he got mad because i wore a short sleeve
3:11:47shirt but
3:11:48it was like 100 degrees outside
3:11:54so
3:11:55this isn't
3:11:56the perfect picture of a relationship no
3:11:59it was very rocky no i no i've never
3:12:02once denied that we had our challenges
3:12:04but he's said several choice words to me
3:12:07that weren't nice and
3:12:09you know but he's not the only person
3:12:10that's ever done that my my own father
3:12:12has done that
3:12:13you know other
3:12:15other women and men have done that to me
3:12:17and other boyfriends
3:12:19but you didn't kill them
3:12:21you didn't get pushed to the point where
3:12:24you know you couldn't take it anymore
3:12:25that's that's what we're trying to
3:12:27understand that's why
3:12:35either way those detectives in arizona
3:12:37have their case made
3:12:44but the least you can do for that family
3:12:46is give them an answer
3:13:01i'm not saying portrayed travis is this
3:13:04this ugly horrible person because you
3:13:06know
3:13:09i don't know if that's the right thing
3:13:10to do either
3:13:13but at least let them know that it was a
3:13:15two-way street
3:13:16and it wasn't all your fault
3:13:21or like i said maybe i'm wrong and maybe
3:13:23it was maybe you did plan it from day
3:13:25one and
3:13:26um
3:13:28carried it out
3:13:52if his mom and dad were sitting here
3:13:54right now what would you say to them
3:14:20i would tell them i'm very sorry
3:14:37lost anyone that's close to me
3:14:46if they asked you why it happened what
3:14:49would you say to them
3:15:05i don't know why
3:15:10all right
3:15:14maybe you can't understand why
3:15:16but what led up to
3:15:19what would you say to them that because
3:15:21that would help them with the why
3:15:24if you're struggling with the why within
3:15:26yourself then what led up to it
3:15:40all right
3:15:48could you explain to his mom and dad
3:15:49what led up to it that would help them
3:15:51understand
3:16:12i'm sorry
3:16:21are you saying that to me are you saying
3:16:22that to his family
3:16:33to everybody
3:16:35to his family to my family
3:16:38to travis
3:16:47then if you truly are sorry jody
3:16:52clear your conscious and give them an
3:16:55understanding
3:16:56of what led up to it
3:17:25don't paint yourself as the cold-blooded
3:17:27person
3:17:29that they'll be left with unless you
3:17:30give them an understanding
3:17:48i don't want to believe that i was wrong
3:17:50about you
3:18:04uh
3:18:19did you have any clearance
3:18:22sure
3:18:36that's all we have is
3:18:41[Music]
3:18:55i can see
3:18:57that your tears are real this that
3:18:59obviously is nothing that you can fake
3:19:04you know travis told me that my tears
3:19:06mean nothing
3:19:08i said that one time when we were
3:19:09fighting
3:19:12how did that make you feel
3:19:17well i knew they were real that's all i
3:19:19had
3:19:22it just made me
3:19:25um
3:19:30i don't think he
3:19:31i don't know it was weird because
3:19:33sometimes he just seemed to have
3:19:35no emotional understanding or depth and
3:19:38then other times he could move himself
3:19:39to cry like that if he wanted to or if
3:19:41he was on stage it may have
3:19:43didn't you know helped his speech or
3:19:44whatever
3:19:46but those were things that he felt
3:19:48deeply about you know
3:19:50so we're all different
3:19:52we all express our emotions differently
3:19:54and i realized that
3:19:57did he know how to push your buttons
3:19:59we knew how to push each other's butts
3:20:01i could make him mad in five seconds
3:20:04i'm you know it's not my favorite
3:20:06pastime or anything but
3:20:08i just knew how to do that and
3:20:10he knew how to make me cry in five
3:20:12seconds
3:20:13so i think his emotional expression was
3:20:15anger and mine was just sadness i guess
3:20:22is that what happened did
3:20:24he push your buttons or you push his
3:20:26buttons
3:20:27is that what triggered this whole thing
3:20:32no
3:20:33because
3:20:35looking at the pictures it looked like
3:20:37that you know you guys were engaged in
3:20:39some sort of
3:20:43intimate
3:20:45um
3:20:46moment between the two of you
3:20:49it didn't look like it was all going bad
3:20:52it looked like
3:20:53you know something something happened
3:20:55real quick
3:21:02and that's the understanding that i was
3:21:04talking about that you could give to the
3:21:05family
3:21:17maybe you don't know why and i
3:21:18understand you know that's
3:21:21that's a pretty deep philosophical thing
3:21:23that you'll be you know struggling with
3:21:25within yourself i could i'm guessing
3:21:29but you know the factual things that led
3:21:31up to it
3:21:33um
3:21:36and then you know people can draw their
3:21:38own conclusions from there
3:21:40but sitting there silent and not saying
3:21:42anything
3:21:46makes you look like a horrible person
3:21:57so
3:22:19i mean obviously you've had other
3:22:21relationships with
3:22:23you know ups and downs
3:22:25that never drove you to that point
3:22:29it was far worse than travis so what was
3:22:32it what was it with travis
3:22:34that
3:22:35that set you off to such a degree
3:23:00i understand that you're a very private
3:23:02person
3:23:03everybody has said that and that's
3:23:06glaringly apparent
3:23:10but all your business is going to be out
3:23:12in the open right now
3:23:14so there's really nothing to hide from
3:23:16anymore
3:23:17you know what i mean
3:23:24how is it as private as travis
3:23:30are you worried about his reputation
3:23:33is that what you're trying to protect
3:23:35here yeah i mean i'm concerned
3:23:37i wouldn't i would rather everyone
3:23:39didn't know that
3:23:41that he was um
3:23:43that we were both violating certain uh
3:23:46chastity laws
3:23:47continually
3:23:49that's a it's a very big deal in church
3:23:52yeah
3:23:55i mean i know that his bishop knows that
3:23:57he keeps everything private
3:24:00and you know i don't know if you're
3:24:02familiar with our faith but
3:24:04he
3:24:05travis has another bishop now you know
3:24:08in the next life he's working through
3:24:10those things
3:24:14so he's got his own path
3:24:17i don't want his family to
3:24:19i don't know i don't think all of his
3:24:20family
3:24:22um
3:24:22share his faith or if they do they're
3:24:24not as involved deeply as he was so i
3:24:27don't know how they would feel i'm sure
3:24:28they don't care
3:24:30they just want to know why
3:24:34i can't imagine what they're going
3:24:35through
3:24:38i mean at least on some level you can
3:24:40understand
3:24:42what's going on in their head
3:24:44you know
3:24:46the why the why is what we've been
3:24:48talking about
3:24:52was this a situation where you guys were
3:24:54involved in an intimate
3:24:56exchange and
3:24:58things got too rough
3:25:00is that
3:25:02is that why the secrecy and the privacy
3:25:05with me today
3:25:20then what's keeping you from unloading
3:25:22your burden
3:25:34is it your own pride
3:25:59do you think at this point that your
3:26:01pride matters more than travis's
3:26:03family's grief
3:26:18you know what if they don't have
3:26:20a faith base like travis did
3:26:23and
3:26:24what if they don't have a spirituality
3:26:26to fall back on to help them through
3:26:28this process
3:26:30you know some people can deal with it
3:26:32better when they have their own
3:26:33spiritual roots that they can dig down
3:26:35and hold on to
3:26:38what if they don't have that
3:26:41you know
3:26:42what if they're in more turmoil then
3:26:48somebody who did have a faith base
3:26:54wouldn't you want to help them out
3:26:58i mean you tell me that you're sorry if
3:27:00i could i would help every party
3:27:04well you know that you can't bring them
3:27:05back
3:27:09but you can help them understand
3:27:16and no matter what you say it's not
3:27:18gonna it's not gonna change their love
3:27:20for their son
3:27:21it's not gonna make them dislike their
3:27:23son no matter what happened
3:27:31but at least they'll have closure
3:28:02at least they'll have closure
3:28:14do
3:28:25if you're not going to do it for
3:28:26yourself at least do it for them
3:28:32if you've already resigned to the fact
3:28:34that your situation is hopeless
3:28:36why wouldn't you do that for them
3:28:47that's a good question
3:28:50i think i will
3:29:17sure
3:29:32you understand that i have to go in
3:29:34there with you
3:29:35okay
3:29:41uh
3:29:57[Music]
3:30:28so before we took a break i posed the
3:30:30question to you
3:30:32that you felt was a good question
3:30:34if your situation if you see your
3:30:36situation is so hopeless
3:30:38why wouldn't you at least
3:30:40give the family some closure and some
3:30:43peace of mind as to what happened
3:30:46or why
3:30:49but strongly evaluated
3:30:58if you
3:31:00have any feelings emotions within you if
3:31:03you have any goodness in your heart
3:31:06i don't know why you wouldn't do that
3:31:25because if you don't and you don't give
3:31:28them the information
3:31:31that they seek
3:31:33for the closure
3:31:34that makes you a very selfish person
3:31:54i think i've been pretty selfish
3:31:57how have you been selfish
3:32:10travis was always so selfless
3:32:14he gave me everything that i needed
3:32:18i needed money and he had it it was mine
3:32:22i needed food
3:32:24i needed to borrow his car
3:32:29i needed
3:32:32to use the internet because mine was
3:32:33down
3:32:40anything
3:32:43i needed to
3:32:46i wanted to borrow any books he had a
3:32:48cool library
3:32:50more audiobooks
3:32:56one time he helped me
3:32:58with my preview legal business and he
3:33:01doesn't benefit monetarily in the least
3:33:07and i would help him too with that each
3:33:09month
3:33:10you have to qualify for his position
3:33:13it's a monthly qualification
3:33:22sometimes i would just help him with
3:33:25computer stuff
3:33:30but i think i'm selfish
3:33:42okay one time we
3:33:44just met in erenberg and i lived in
3:33:48southern california
3:33:50so we could just rent a hotel room and
3:33:52make out the whole weekend
3:33:53and um
3:33:54whatever
3:33:56but we drove to go see a movie and
3:33:59there was this lady
3:34:02standing by the side
3:34:05he pulled over and it's bmw and pulls
3:34:08down his window and are you hungry and
3:34:10she said yeah
3:34:11so we turned around and went to the
3:34:13wendy's right next to the hotel
3:34:16and he got her this triple decker
3:34:18and
3:34:19biggie fries or whatever it's called in
3:34:21the biggest drink that they had
3:34:24and gave it to her
3:34:38he always did stuff like that
3:34:45we've pulled into this gas station once
3:34:47in china
3:34:49it's all just not always
3:34:51and nothing gets that tribe they've got
3:34:53a very rich culture but most novellas
3:34:56that you eat today are really overweight
3:34:58and
3:34:59but they have their animals are starving
3:35:03everywhere you go they got ribs sticking
3:35:05out just to make us both so bad
3:35:09travis bought
3:35:11we ended up splitting it but travis
3:35:12bought seven cheeseburgers for 300
3:35:15hungry dogs
3:35:16and one with a mother
3:35:20they just wolf them down we felt better
3:35:22but we just felt like we couldn't do
3:35:24enough
3:35:31where did things go wrong judy
3:35:44this is your chance to make at least
3:35:47something right
3:35:48even if it's on a small scale it's a big
3:35:51deal to his folks
3:35:58do they already know i'm in custody
3:36:00i'm sure they do
3:36:03they feel better about that much
3:36:08but they still need closure i mean just
3:36:10because you're in custody it doesn't
3:36:12give them any closure
3:36:22so
3:36:38this is something that you planned from
3:36:40day one
3:36:48this is something that you wish you
3:36:50could take back
3:36:53i wish i could change it
3:37:00shake it rewind
3:37:03what would you do if you were on the
3:37:04clock
3:37:08i would have done everything i could to
3:37:10prevent it
3:37:25uh
3:37:31if your fate is inevitable in your mind
3:37:34why wouldn't you give the family closure
3:37:55i don't know if i can
3:37:58give them what they want
3:38:02i
3:38:03don't know
3:38:04wouldn't you at least want to try and
3:38:05let them make that decision
3:38:26if it were my son i would want all of
3:38:28the information i could
3:38:31so that i could make some sense of it
3:38:40so
3:38:55is
3:38:57this something that is so horrific in
3:38:59your mind that you don't even want to
3:39:00think that you could be capable of such
3:39:02a thing
3:39:16so you know that's the person that i was
3:39:17talking about the person that is scared
3:39:21and remorseful
3:39:23and didn't want any of this to happen
3:39:31so i don't think i was wrong jody
3:39:47this is your opportunity
3:39:51to make right on some of your
3:39:52selfishness
3:39:57and let the family
3:39:59decide how they're going to deal with
3:40:01that information and how they're going
3:40:03to use it
3:40:27why should they have any more suffering
3:40:29than they've already had
3:40:52in your religion
3:40:56and forgive me for my ignorance about it
3:40:58it's
3:41:02do they believe that
3:41:04the truth shall set you free
3:41:12um
3:41:13i think yeah because it has to do with
3:41:16repentance
3:41:18and if it's just a christian-based
3:41:23theology then
3:41:26i would say they would
3:41:35i think it even says that in the
3:41:36doctrine and covenants
3:41:38which is another part of our scriptures
3:41:41try to remember if i just read that the
3:41:43other day
3:41:46have you been giving much thought to
3:41:47that
3:41:50um
3:41:54not within the last 24 hours
3:42:21you are the only person
3:42:25that has the information that the family
3:42:27seeks
3:42:30they don't seek
3:42:32you know crime scene information they
3:42:34they already they will already have that
3:42:38they seek something that is on a much
3:42:41deeper level
3:42:43it's an emotional level
3:42:46and you are the only person
3:42:48that can help them with that
3:43:09wasn't angry at travis
3:43:12everyone keeps saying whoever did this
3:43:14was so angry
3:43:16then what were you
3:43:49were you scared
3:44:26were you jealous
3:44:29i remember feeling jealous when we were
3:44:31together because
3:44:33just one time especially when he was
3:44:35letting this drunk girl hang all over
3:44:37him
3:44:38and he wasn't doing anything to stop it
3:44:40was just supporting her and holding her
3:44:42it's like right in front of me like what
3:44:44are you doing but i didn't want to make
3:44:45a scene you know all our friends were
3:44:47there so i just left
3:44:48i felt more sad there were of course
3:44:51feelings of
3:44:53more feelings of insecurity because it
3:44:55made me wonder
3:44:57what are your deeper philosophies if you
3:44:59think that's okay and we're in our
3:45:00relationship together
3:45:03and to him it was harmless um and i
3:45:05realized that he didn't mean anything by
3:45:07it we talked about it
3:45:09so we were feeling jealous about that
3:45:11was
3:45:14it was almost a year and a half ago
3:45:18so if it's not jealousy and it's not
3:45:20anger
3:45:22then what was it
3:45:37have you been asking yourself that same
3:45:39question
3:45:45is it that you're having a hard time
3:45:46figuring it out within yourself
3:45:58i just
3:46:26was it fear
3:46:36so if it was fear then what is it that
3:46:38you're afraid of or were afraid of
3:47:09so
3:47:26are you looking back and trying to
3:47:27remember that day
3:47:33i'm just trying to remember everything
3:47:40like things that happen or conversations
3:47:43like i just
3:47:48what do you remember about that day that
3:47:50would help the family understand
3:48:11did you at least start out enjoying each
3:48:13other's company that day
3:48:54did you go there with the intention to
3:48:56kill him
3:49:05no
3:49:11what was your intention
3:49:40did you mean for that to happen
3:50:13so
3:50:54so
3:51:06i'm not really good at expressing myself
3:51:09i think i'm just going to write his
3:51:11letter
3:51:13would you like to write him a letter now
3:51:20i think i wanted
3:51:24i mean i could start but it would just
3:51:26be like a rough round
3:51:31it wouldn't be something that i'm ready
3:51:32to submit
3:51:33i'm going to
3:51:37want to think about it and make sure
3:51:39that that's what i really want to say
3:51:40and
3:51:42i know that you want everything now but
3:51:45um
3:51:47and if you don't want to do that or help
3:51:49me anymore that's fine but i'm still
3:51:50going right a little better i think
3:51:52i think that's a good idea for you to
3:51:54write him a letter
3:51:55i as far as the now goes for me like i
3:51:58said it doesn't
3:52:00it's not going to make any difference
3:52:02for me
3:52:06but it would make a difference for you
3:52:08and it would make a difference for
3:52:09travis's family
3:52:15because i think i'm very safe in my
3:52:17assumption that they're seeking closure
3:52:22and the more information that they have
3:52:24to understand why we'll give them the
3:52:26closure that they seek
3:52:33and i think that you want to do that i
3:52:35can see that in you
3:52:38they do deserve that
3:52:43if you have a hard time expressing
3:52:45yourself you know that's okay and
3:52:47understandable in this situation this
3:52:49isn't an everyday average normal
3:52:51situation
3:52:55i can usually
3:52:56see things better right again
3:53:09if you would let me help you
3:53:12i can
3:53:13help you with that expression
3:53:22but you have to be willing
3:53:25and you can still write him a letter
3:53:43the least you can do is give the family
3:53:45something
3:53:46i don't know how many times i can say
3:53:48that enough
3:53:54you say that you didn't mean
3:53:56for that to happen that day you nodded
3:53:58your head no when i asked you that
3:54:02and i believe that
3:54:07but in order for it to be believable
3:54:10there has to be some understandings what
3:54:12to what led up to it
3:54:23so
3:54:35uh
3:54:49was he expecting you to come over that
3:54:51day
3:54:57he wanted me
3:54:59i to
3:55:00him i wasn't going to
3:55:04so was it a surprise that you actually
3:55:05showed up
3:55:18so
3:55:33it is it a matter of you
3:55:36not understanding how things got so
3:55:38carried away
3:55:41that it would end up in a situation like
3:55:43that
3:55:49or did you go there with the intention
3:55:51to kill him
3:56:10do you want to leave here today with
3:56:12those questions unanswered for
3:56:14travis's mom and dad
3:56:41so who who's left behind his grandmother
3:56:44she raised him
3:56:48he has a lot of brothers and sisters
3:56:52i think he has
3:56:54three sisters 84
3:56:58tenisha samantha
3:57:02and he has some brothers
3:57:04big
3:57:07so what about his grandma and siblings
3:57:10do you want to walk away from here today
3:57:13without giving them something to
3:57:15understand
3:57:21uh
3:57:38if your fate is sealed in your mind why
3:57:41wouldn't you give them that
3:57:50and at the same time help yourself out
3:58:20so
3:58:36are you the cold-hearted person
3:58:38that everybody thinks you are
3:58:47oh
3:58:48no
3:58:49not cold hearted
3:58:52then what are you
3:58:56weak
3:59:03what is your weakness
3:59:21we're all human
3:59:23we all have weaknesses and embarrassing
3:59:25things that we wouldn't want anybody to
3:59:27reveal
3:59:41what's your weakness
3:59:53it's stupid it doesn't really have
3:59:55anything to do with this too much
3:59:59it's
4:00:00something i'm working through
4:00:04do you have problems with your temper
4:00:07never anger issues no it's nothing like
4:00:09that
4:00:13i mean i sometimes i
4:00:16i yell
4:00:18but
4:00:19nothing like i wouldn't go as far as
4:00:21seeing english i think it's just because
4:00:23i come from a family that yells at
4:00:25everyone that's how they communicate um
4:00:27i think there's just sort of
4:00:29desensitized to it like after i moved
4:00:31out i was away for a while so when i
4:00:32come back to visit it's like yeah i'm
4:00:34standing right here or shield my mom
4:00:36will yell my brother he's standing right
4:00:38there you don't need to heal and she's
4:00:39like well he doesn't listen if i don't
4:00:40yell
4:00:41the thing is it's because he's become
4:00:42desensitized to her yelling so until she
4:00:44yells he's like okay
4:00:46yeah so it's maybe something like that
4:00:48but not angry
4:00:51and i've been able to check that a lot
4:00:53with my yelling because it doesn't
4:00:55it's not
4:00:57a nice way to communicate in my opinion
4:00:59and it doesn't
4:01:01really
4:01:02help anything
4:01:06so how could things go so long
4:01:09you know
4:01:10i'm not understanding
4:01:12if it's not jealousy
4:01:15it's not an anger problem
4:01:22you said you were afraid or you nodded
4:01:25at least
4:01:27that you were afraid
4:01:30but i'm not sure what you're afraid of
4:01:49it may not be trivial to his parent or
4:01:51his grandmother
4:01:52his brothers and sisters
4:02:25and i think any information that they
4:02:27could have to help understand you know
4:02:29who you are
4:02:31and
4:02:32what transpired that day is going to
4:02:34help them
4:02:42it won't bring their son back but it
4:02:43will help them understand
4:03:04and i don't understand why you wouldn't
4:03:05do that for them
4:03:08because you obviously care
4:03:41so
4:04:05i'm not asking you to make excuses for
4:04:07yourself
4:04:11because i don't think you're a type of
4:04:12person that would do that
4:04:15but i'm asking you to do something for
4:04:17somebody else
4:04:29somebody deserves
4:04:31to know
4:04:51what was it about your relationship with
4:04:53him that went so wrong
4:04:55that would end up like that
4:05:03so
4:05:21and if that wasn't your intention
4:05:23then what was
4:05:52you say that you know
4:05:54you said at one point when i posed the
4:05:55question to you about why you wouldn't
4:05:58do that for the family and you said that
4:06:00was a good question and you think you
4:06:02will
4:06:10pretty sure i will
4:06:12well now is your time
4:06:16this is the opportunity that i'm trying
4:06:18to give you
4:06:20i understand that i appreciate that
4:06:25then what's keeping you from doing it
4:06:28i think i just need to sort through
4:06:30things i'm just not sure
4:06:33serve your answers
4:06:36they deserve to know what happened
4:06:38you have those answers
4:06:41you may not know the why within yourself
4:06:43but you have those answers
4:06:45you know what happened
4:07:06you can still write them a letter when
4:07:08you figure out within yourself you know
4:07:11some of the
4:07:13the questions that you're struggling
4:07:15with
4:07:16but in the meantime you can let them
4:07:17know what happened
4:07:22the facts of what happened
4:07:24i don't have all the details
4:07:28what details do you have
4:07:47was he happy to see you when you got
4:07:49there that day
4:07:54or did he appear happy
4:07:58or was he angry that you showed up
4:08:24that we wouldn't want anybody to reveal
4:08:39what's your weakness
4:08:51it's stupid it doesn't really have
4:08:53anything to do with this too much
4:08:57it's
4:08:58something i'm working through
4:09:02do you have problems with your temper
4:09:05or anger issues no it's nothing like
4:09:07that
4:09:11i mean i sometimes i i yell
4:09:17nothing like i wouldn't go as far as
4:09:19saying anchorage i think it's just
4:09:21because i come from a family that yells
4:09:22at everyone that's how they communicate
4:09:25i think there's just sort of
4:09:26desensitized to it like after i moved
4:09:29out i was away for a while so when i
4:09:30come back to visit it's like yeah i'm
4:09:32standing right here or shield my mom
4:09:34will yell at my brother he's standing
4:09:35right there you don't need to yell and
4:09:36she's like well he doesn't listen if i
4:09:38don't yell
4:09:39the thing is it's because he's becoming
4:09:40sensitized to her yelling so until she
4:09:42yells he's like okay
4:09:43you know so it's maybe something like
4:09:45that but not anger
4:09:49and i've been able to check that a lot
4:09:51in my yelling because it doesn't
4:09:53it's not
4:09:55a nice way to communicate in my opinion
4:09:56and it doesn't
4:09:59really
4:10:00help anything
4:10:04so how could things go so wrong
4:10:06you know i'm not
4:10:08understanding if it's not jealousy
4:10:13it's not an anger problem
4:10:20you said you were afraid or you nodded
4:10:22at least
4:10:25that you were afraid
4:10:28but i'm not sure what you were afraid of
4:10:47it may not be trivial to his parent or
4:10:49his grandmother
4:10:50his brothers and sisters
4:11:23and i think any information that they
4:11:24could have to help understand you know
4:11:27who you are
4:11:29and
4:11:30what transpired that day is going to
4:11:32help them
4:11:39it won't bring their son back but it
4:11:41will help them understand
4:12:02and i don't understand why you wouldn't
4:12:03do that for them
4:12:06because you obviously care
4:12:31uh
4:12:56foreign
4:13:03i'm not asking you to make excuses for
4:13:05yourself
4:13:08because i don't think you're a type of
4:13:10person that would do that
4:13:12but i'm asking you to do something for
4:13:14somebody else
4:13:27somebody deserves
4:13:29to know
4:13:49what was it about your relationship with
4:13:51him that went so wrong
4:13:53that would end up like that
4:14:18and if that wasn't your intention
4:14:21than what was
4:14:50you say that you know
4:14:52you said at one point when i posed the
4:14:53question to you
4:14:55about why you wouldn't do that for the
4:14:57family and you said that was a good
4:14:58question and you think you will
4:15:07pretty sure i will
4:15:10well now is your time
4:15:14this is the opportunity that i'm trying
4:15:16to give you
4:15:18i understand that i appreciate that
4:15:23then what's keeping you from doing it
4:15:26i think i just need to sort through
4:15:28things i'm just not sure
4:15:34they deserve to know what happened
4:15:36you have those answers
4:15:39you may not know the why within yourself
4:15:41but you have those answers
4:15:43you know what happened
4:16:04you could still write them a letter when
4:16:06you figure out within yourself you know
4:16:09some of the
4:16:11the questions that you're struggling
4:16:13with but in the meantime you can let
4:16:15them know what happened
4:16:20the facts of what happened
4:16:22i don't have all the details
4:16:26what details do you have
4:16:45was he happy to see you when you got
4:16:47there that day
4:16:52or did he appear happy
4:16:56or was he angry that you showed up
4:17:10so
4:17:35this whole week
4:17:39i'm sure it does
4:18:00is there any way i can see some of those
4:18:02photos
4:18:06what would you do with him if you could
4:18:07see him
4:18:09just look at him
4:18:11and do you think it would help you
4:18:14i don't know if it would
4:18:15help me or
4:18:17or
4:18:18i don't know maybe
4:18:21maybe it would
4:18:24i don't know i just think that i don't
4:18:27know
4:18:28well i know you can't tell me that
4:18:29you're not struggling in your mind you
4:18:31know and thinking about what happened
4:18:33over and over and over again
4:18:35at least what you can remember
4:18:44you can help me understand at least what
4:18:45led up to it
4:19:12i don't think that you're a bad
4:19:14person i think things got out of control
4:19:18and you don't understand why
4:19:24and i don't think that you're gonna feel
4:19:25good about yourself until you
4:19:28unburden yourself and give the family
4:19:30some closure
4:19:34because at this point you know what else
4:19:36do you have what else do they have
4:20:05what have you got to lose
4:20:24already lost everything
4:20:29then do something selfless
4:21:26uh
4:21:42do something selfless that quality that
4:21:44you admired in travis
4:21:49show his family that at least you have
4:21:50that within you
4:22:21you know even though travis was real
4:22:23jerks and
4:22:24he really cared about me
4:22:35happy
4:22:51like if i had a reserve account
4:22:54so to see if you can picture one
4:22:58where
4:22:59i had so many good things that we had
4:23:01done and shared
4:23:03and i had done for him that even if i
4:23:05did something bad you know it's like
4:23:07making a withdrawal but you still have a
4:23:08positive balance
4:23:16so he obviously saw that good within you
4:23:22his friends thought he was mine
4:23:25two friends in particular not
4:23:40he wasn't blind though he was just you
4:23:42know
4:23:43we were just friends
4:23:48sorry what were you gonna say i'm just
4:23:50gonna ask you if he was happy to see you
4:23:52that week
4:23:53that day
4:24:14that look like you're you're saying yeah
4:24:16he was
4:24:19[Music]
4:24:20okay
4:24:24he was always happy to see me though
4:24:27trying to think
4:24:31were you happy to see him
4:24:48you at least know that
4:25:08i don't believe that you went there with
4:25:09the intention to hurt him
4:25:22maybe he did
4:25:41so
4:25:56i was seeing those pictures again going
4:25:58to help you
4:26:14what is it that you're trying to piece
4:26:15together
4:26:20um
4:26:22i don't know
4:26:23there's
4:26:25there's also
4:26:26a bit of more of a curiosity i think
4:26:42him yesterday
4:26:45i said the one with him in the shower
4:26:48he had water all over his face
4:26:51he took a nice picture of him
4:26:56he would never let me take pictures of
4:26:58him in the shower he was you know
4:26:59despite our intimacy he was really
4:27:01private about his showers
4:27:04you know like he had a room i don't
4:27:06think you've seen the room but it was
4:27:08here
4:27:09there's double doors here leading into
4:27:10the room
4:27:11walk-in closet here and i'll always sort
4:27:13of short haul here that went this way
4:27:15and there was a bathtub here a shower
4:27:17here in the bathroom here little
4:27:19enclosure
4:27:20and so if he was taking a shower you
4:27:22couldn't see if you were in the bedroom
4:27:23unless you walk down the hall and i
4:27:24never went in the bathroom when he would
4:27:26shower because he was just private about
4:27:28it
4:27:29you know
4:27:30it's not like we were a married couple
4:27:32ever we had
4:27:33a time when we did something and then
4:27:35after that was
4:27:41are you saying that
4:27:43those pictures were taken without his
4:27:45consent
4:27:46i'm just saying that whoever took those
4:27:48pictures
4:27:50must have
4:27:51i mean it's hard to imagine because i
4:27:54got pictures of him once shaving and
4:27:56that he was already weird about that
4:27:58well
4:28:00jody when you say things like that it's
4:28:02obvious to me that you don't want to do
4:28:04the right thing for the family you don't
4:28:06want to unburden yourself you don't want
4:28:08to give them closure
4:28:11and you're jerking my chain
4:28:13because
4:28:16there's no doubt and i've already told
4:28:17you there's no doubt in my mind or
4:28:19anybody else's mind
4:28:22that you were responsible
4:28:24for his death
4:28:29and i don't appreciate my chain
4:28:32being jerked
4:28:34i don't appreciate you thinking that i'm
4:28:35some sort of fool well the detective
4:28:37said he has pictures of me
4:28:40i've seen those pictures they were taken
4:28:42the same day
4:28:45well certainly not the same time
4:28:49within the same time frame
4:29:01and i you know to tell you the truth i i
4:29:03think that uh
4:29:05i think i've done all i can here
4:29:08i was hoping to you know be able to
4:29:10relay some sort of information or
4:29:11message to the family
4:29:13because they deserve it
4:29:15and you know you have the power there
4:29:17you have the control you're the only one
4:29:19that can give that
4:29:21and
4:29:22i'm tired of playing games
4:29:24i'm tired of skirting around it
4:29:37and i guess i just leave here today
4:29:39and leave them with the image that they
4:29:41have of you
4:29:44i don't know what else
4:29:47there's nothing else that i can do
4:29:52i thought that it would be easier for
4:29:54you to talk to a woman
4:29:58especially about the you know i mean
4:30:01this was a very in
4:30:02intimate
4:30:04um
4:30:06incident
4:30:08and it would be easier
4:30:12to say what you need to say to a woman
4:30:13sometimes it is
4:30:16it's not as threatening
4:30:31but unless you're willing to give me
4:30:33something
4:30:36something to help you with and i can
4:30:37help you you know walk down that path
4:30:39and remember those details then i can't
4:30:41do anything for you
4:30:53and you need to decide
4:30:55whether you're going to
4:30:56give that family closure or leave them
4:30:59with the picture that they have of you
4:31:01and wondering
4:31:03why their son died
4:31:06that's it that's the bottom line that's
4:31:07what you need to decide
4:31:11after today things are going to go so
4:31:12fast for you
4:31:14you're going to be
4:31:15totally out of control of the situation
4:31:21the wheels of justice will start turning
4:31:37and i can see that you want to do that
4:31:39that's clear
4:31:40i can see that
4:31:44i understand that you're afraid
4:31:46and that you're horrified about that
4:31:49person within you that could do
4:31:51something like that
4:31:54but it happened and it's a done deal and
4:31:57you did
4:31:58at least you can do is tell the family
4:32:01how it happened so they can understand
4:32:03why
4:32:12are you going to do that for them today
4:32:13or not
4:32:21i'd
4:32:22i'd like to um
4:32:25yeah
4:32:26then what's holding you back begin
4:32:29some like i don't know i just
4:32:33because i don't know what to say to them
4:32:36well let's throw throw a few things out
4:32:40you said you were sorry
4:32:52unless you back it up with something
4:32:53else as to why you're sorry
4:32:56you're right
4:33:24uh
4:34:09give them something jody i mean
4:34:11did you guys get into an argument that
4:34:13day
4:34:15um
4:34:16was there was there some sort of fight
4:34:20i mean help them understand
4:34:22that's what i'm talking about
4:34:59i mean do you think you're going to get
4:35:01this opportunity again
4:35:03to sit down and just have a free form
4:35:05discussion
4:35:19like in this room yeah just exchanging
4:35:23communicating
4:35:32there's not going to be any situation or
4:35:34place that's going to make it any easier
4:35:35for you this is as good as it gets for
4:35:37you right now
4:35:41yesterday detective flores asked me if i
4:35:43wanted to see those pictures and i told
4:35:44him no
4:35:47do you think that's going to help you
4:35:51i don't know
4:35:54well i tell you what let me um check
4:35:57and uh
4:35:59see if we can get you some pictures to
4:36:01look at
4:36:07yeah there's a lot of pictures
4:36:17i'll be right back
4:36:23judy detective flores
4:36:26has the binder with those pictures
4:36:28and he's not um
4:36:29he's not here in our office right now
4:36:32but
4:36:33i put a call in to try and find him and
4:36:36get him back here he's still in town
4:36:38he's just not here
4:36:40would you rather talk to him
4:36:45if you do you know that's that's fine
4:36:47and i'm sure that he'd be willing to
4:36:48talk with you again or would you rather
4:36:50continue talking with me
4:36:53it's up to you
4:36:58i don't
4:36:59i don't really have preference i guess
4:37:08well
4:37:10we don't have unlimited time you you
4:37:13don't have unlimited time
4:37:17meetings you get you back across the
4:37:18street and there's other things that we
4:37:21need to work on
4:37:25so
4:37:26you know the time is now to decide
4:37:28whether you're going to talk to me or
4:37:29not
4:37:31and whether you're going to give the
4:37:32family some relief that i've talked to
4:37:34you about
4:37:38well either you do or you don't you know
4:37:40actions um
4:37:42actions speak louder than words at this
4:37:44point
4:37:45that was one of travis's favorite scenes
4:37:53if you really want to do it then do it
4:37:57it's not going to benefit you or them
4:37:59to wait to do it
4:38:28and i don't i don't know what it is
4:38:30that's going on inside your head right
4:38:31now i don't know whether you're weighing
4:38:32the odds um
4:38:34you know trying to figure out how you
4:38:35can save your own skin here i'm
4:38:39not interested in saving my skin then
4:38:42then what are you interested in
4:38:47um
4:38:49well i am definitely interested in
4:38:51giving his family closure i'm also
4:38:53interested in
4:38:55maybe a little bit of closure for myself
4:38:57i got a flat tire on the way to his
4:38:59funeral and was not able to go
4:39:01um i was
4:39:03in weed and my flight was in sacramento
4:39:06and
4:39:06it was thoroughly early in the mornings
4:39:08there were no tire places open when i
4:39:10missed life
4:39:12and even if i had driven as fast as i
4:39:14could get there and didn't get pulled
4:39:16over i still wouldn't have made it on
4:39:17time
4:39:20you think that it's going to make just a
4:39:22little bit of difference inside yourself
4:39:26as far as that closure goes if you know
4:39:28that the family at least has something
4:39:33yeah
4:39:34if anyone deserves closure anyway it's
4:39:36found on me
4:39:38but i think that's kind of why i wanted
4:39:40to um see those pictures
4:39:44i don't know if that will help or not
4:39:46i don't see how it would help
4:39:49i think it would um
4:39:51you know
4:39:52if anything make you more upset
4:39:55i mean you know what happened you know
4:39:57how it transpired you know the end
4:39:59result and what the end result looked
4:40:01like
4:40:03maybe it'll help me process i don't know
4:40:13you can at least
4:40:15until you get to the point of you know
4:40:17you're processing
4:40:19you know the pictures and so forth
4:40:23you can at least talk about
4:40:25the good things that happened that day
4:40:28and what your intentions were
4:40:36you know maybe you can't bear to talk
4:40:38about the actual act itself
4:40:42but you can at least talk about the
4:40:43events that led up to it
4:40:46happy or sad
4:40:48there had to have been some happy
4:40:49because i saw all of those photos
4:41:07and if you're not going to do that today
4:41:09with me right now i'm just going to send
4:41:11you back across the street
4:41:16because we've been in here for a while
4:41:21and i don't have you know the entire day
4:41:24i guess my patients are running a little
4:41:26thin
4:41:35um
4:41:52let me just get some things up here
4:42:10do you not trust what i'm going to do
4:42:11with this information when you give it
4:42:19well
4:42:21um
4:42:23i don't know
4:42:24i mean it's not that i distrust you
4:42:28but not because i don't think you're not
4:42:29trustworthy it's not bad
4:42:40if you give me a specific message to
4:42:43give to them i promise you that i will
4:42:45relay it in the way that in the context
4:42:47of which you put it
4:43:03but i can't do it without any
4:43:04information
4:43:06without the information that you're
4:43:08holding
4:43:15so therefore you know if that's how we
4:43:17leave it i'm not going to say anything
4:43:18to them
4:43:20and they'll be left with you know
4:43:21whatever thoughts they have right now
4:43:31and if you think you're feeling grief
4:43:33over this whole incident
4:43:35think about how they feel for once think
4:43:38about somebody else
4:43:42the turmoil that they're going through
4:43:44that that family is going through
4:43:46and every time you see a family
4:43:48struggling with this they always want to
4:43:50know why
4:43:51why was my son's life taken why was my
4:43:54grandson's life taken
4:44:01everybody wants to know why
4:44:04and maybe you don't have that why but
4:44:06you certainly have the events that led
4:44:08up to it and then they can make the
4:44:09wrong decision as to why
4:44:26but the time is now
4:44:29you won't have another opportunity like
4:44:30this
4:44:32this is still early
4:44:43and if you want to talk to detective
4:44:44flores as opposed to me you know you can
4:44:46do that
4:44:48like i said i thought it would be easier
4:44:49for you to talk to a woman
4:44:52who could relate to some of those
4:44:54feelings
4:45:03but if you want to go back across the
4:45:04street right now just let me know
4:45:12i kind of do want to talk to him because
4:45:14he has been in contact with their with
4:45:16travis's family a lot
4:45:18okay i don't know if that would make any
4:45:20difference but i know that he already
4:45:21talks to them on a regular basis yeah
4:45:23and i'm sure that you know
4:45:25he has a
4:45:26somewhat of a relationship with him
4:45:31i'll um
4:45:33i had them put in a call
4:45:34so i'll go see if he's
4:45:36yeah i'm not trying to stall or anything
4:45:38but i've got to go bathroom again
4:45:40can't wait
4:45:41yeah thanks
4:45:58[Music]
4:46:04rachel called me and told me that you
4:46:06wanted to talk to me
4:46:09i was just on the phone with uh
4:46:11travis's sister and i told her
4:46:18smith what'd she say
4:46:22she has a million one questions more
4:46:25questions now than she had before
4:46:28and i don't have anything to give her
4:46:32pardon it because i can't give certain
4:46:34information yet but
4:46:36the other video is because i don't have
4:46:38a lot of information
4:46:40i need no information
4:46:46are you doing okay
4:46:49it doesn't matter how i'm doing
4:46:51it does to me
4:46:53thank you
4:47:02i've always been completely honest with
4:47:04you and
4:47:07i just
4:47:09i wish that you could be honest with me
4:47:13what matters is how his aliens doing
4:47:16you know of course i care about how my
4:47:18family's doing just because
4:47:20i'm the person here that
4:47:23and everyone thinks it's a bad guy
4:47:25doesn't mean that my family has anything
4:47:27to do with anything and it doesn't mean
4:47:29that they
4:47:31were responsible for anything or
4:47:34that they shouldn't suffer at all and
4:47:35it's
4:47:38and of course i feel this family you
4:47:39know i don't know them as well or don't
4:47:41even know them at all except for his
4:47:43grandmother
4:47:45yeah
4:47:48you know i've been i told you yesterday
4:47:50i've been doing this for a long time and
4:47:52you're absolutely right
4:47:54you know
4:47:55the person's family who was hurt they're
4:47:58obviously hurting
4:48:00but there's a second family that hurts
4:48:01as well
4:48:03and in this case it's your family
4:48:07your brothers
4:48:09your sister
4:48:33i just wish it wouldn't hurt because it
4:48:35would be so much easier for me
4:48:38not that i deserve to have it easy but
4:48:43i don't think you're ever going to be
4:48:44able to take that away from them i think
4:48:46they're always going to hurt
4:48:50now the only thing that can solve that
4:48:52is time
4:48:56you're right about that
4:49:08rachel said something about uh you
4:49:10wanted to see some photos but
4:49:12i i don't think i can show you
4:49:14any more photos
4:49:17not just
4:49:19i don't like doing that
4:49:22because
4:49:26something might happen to you
4:49:27you might
4:49:31first off it's not something i do
4:49:35the reason i asked was because
4:49:38i just feel like it might help me piece
4:49:40some things together
4:49:42um
4:49:43and
4:49:44this is more of a selfish reason i think
4:49:46it might give me
4:49:48some sense of closure i know it's kind
4:49:50of morbid i don't even think i really
4:49:52deserve closure
4:49:54his family does but i wasn't able to
4:49:56attend his funeral and it's just
4:50:00i don't know that's just fine
4:50:04mostly
4:50:15what is it you want to know about the
4:50:16photos
4:50:19do you want to see the room
4:50:23do you want to see the bathroom or do
4:50:24you want to see him or
4:50:26is it the photos before it happened that
4:50:28you want to see
4:50:30i think the photos of after everything
4:50:42i i won't show you those
4:50:45i i won't i'm not in good conscience i i
4:50:48can't do that
4:50:52okay is there any that you can
4:50:55no
4:50:57i can't do that
4:51:05someone said before i mean
4:51:07i've seen plenty of those kinds of
4:51:09photos
4:51:11if you want i can describe stuff for you
4:51:16because i was there
4:51:20and those photos will never leave my
4:51:22head
4:51:25i'm sure they'll never leave yours
4:51:26either
4:51:30one thing you've got to remember is that
4:51:33by the time he was found
4:51:37the images that you saw were different
4:51:39than the ones that i saw
4:51:41things change
4:51:43over time
4:51:45his body changes after time
4:51:51we had a difficult time identifying who
4:51:53he was by the time he got there
4:51:56and he wasn't the same person
4:52:02so that's why i don't want to show you
4:52:04photos
4:52:20i don't have them with me here but
4:52:24you know as soon as i get a hold of them
4:52:26another detective has them right now
4:52:34what is it you can tell me about that
4:52:35thing
4:52:48was he expecting you to show up that day
4:53:02why did you decide to go
4:53:16i didn't really i was going to utah
4:53:45[Music]
4:53:53just me and you
4:54:02i know that you talked to his family and
4:54:04every day
4:54:09i can't believe it
4:54:12i called him yesterday i told him
4:54:20actually talked to his brother steven
4:54:22first
4:54:24and samantha i left her message she was
4:54:26off on vacation
4:54:29and his other two brothers one said gary
4:54:31and
4:54:32i didn't talk to the other brother gary
4:54:33i talked to
4:54:34like that's his own yeah he was going to
4:54:37call his other brother and his other
4:54:38sister
4:54:40and i was planning on calling his aunt
4:54:42she lives back in the midwest today
4:54:47which hand
4:54:48i can't remember her name
4:54:50and he no
4:54:53mother
4:54:55did you talk to his grandmother
4:54:57no
4:55:01steven said he was going to take care of
4:55:02that
4:55:04and if she had any questions that she
4:55:06could give me a call
4:55:08and she's been so upset that she hasn't
4:55:10been able to call me yet
4:55:19is there something that you want me to
4:55:20tell them
4:55:24the things that keep coming to my mind
4:55:26wouldn't help them at all i wouldn't
4:55:28comfort them
4:55:30it wouldn't just be cliched meaningless
4:55:32words
4:55:46i'll let you decide what to say
4:55:49and i'll relay it exactly how you want
4:55:51me to
4:55:55um i have an unrelated question real
4:55:58quick sure and it's not i mean detective
4:56:01lady said that
4:56:03that she doesn't like me asking them
4:56:05because she makes me look like i'm
4:56:07concerned about trivial things but i'm
4:56:09only asking because it concerns other
4:56:10people that i care about and
4:56:12it's understandable i just if i could
4:56:15just know so i could tell them if i ever
4:56:16talk to them again or really a message
4:56:18or call them um on last friday i had a
4:56:21wedding and
4:56:23just the camera yeah and the only
4:56:27place that those photos are are on my
4:56:30external drive and on the camera card
4:56:33it'll be a while before we get those
4:56:34back
4:56:35okay but if they can just get to the
4:56:37right person because that's the only
4:56:38thing they have for their buddy it would
4:56:40be absolutely positive to to give those
4:56:43to the right people
4:56:46and look really nice that he's
4:56:48taken
4:56:49they can probably take them and edit the
4:56:51pictures but
4:56:53who are those two people
4:56:55those pictures belong to um brian neiman
4:56:59okay is his name all right
4:57:02yeah talking to your mom
4:57:04i think she mentioned something about
4:57:06that and also
4:57:08on my external drive as well maybe my
4:57:10computer and hard drive too there were
4:57:12pictures of my little sister and i and
4:57:14for
4:57:16whatever reason she's in some kind of
4:57:17rehab program right now new photos
4:57:20yeah well pretty recent ones that she
4:57:23had of her prom night and
4:57:25kind of her and i that we were just
4:57:26goofing off so they're her and i
4:57:28together and
4:57:29my mom was gonna send those and also my
4:57:31little brother she was gonna send some
4:57:33of those and even if she doesn't send
4:57:34them she wants them so i mean they i
4:57:37kind of took them for her and so they
4:57:39sort of understand i mean you're worried
4:57:41about other people right now
4:57:44and you also need to understand that
4:57:46these people
4:57:48right now
4:57:49that stuff is not important to them
4:57:53so i mean that's that's good i mean
4:57:55you're thinking of them but they're not
4:57:57thinking about pictures they're not
4:57:58thinking about stuff like that
4:58:00and they're worried about you eventually
4:58:02they're going to want those i know that
4:58:04would want this
4:58:07and did you also take my journals yes
4:58:10all three of them
4:58:18are you going to keep that forever
4:58:20no
4:58:21i'd like to return them to you someday i
4:58:23just um well i'm probably not going to
4:58:25get anything back but i know that my mom
4:58:27made a mention of saying
4:58:29that
4:58:30she likes the way i write and she's
4:58:32always wanting to know my business
4:58:36that's something you want to want me to
4:58:37give to her
4:58:38um i wouldn't mind if he did
4:58:41i it's something i wouldn't want her to
4:58:43read otherwise but in this circumstance
4:58:45i think she deserves to have every piece
4:58:47of me that she can because
4:58:49[Music]
4:58:51she's not kidding anymore
4:58:57you're still here with us
4:59:03not going anywhere
4:59:05going somewhere
4:59:07not anytime soon
4:59:11still be able to talk to your family
4:59:15they can talk to you and
4:59:17they'll be able to visit
4:59:23do you know what happened my cash i
4:59:24heard you could put cash on the books
4:59:26there so they are on my book or whatever
4:59:28it's called so that i can
4:59:31get a few things that i might need in
4:59:33there i don't know what it would be but
4:59:34i don't know about the situation here
4:59:36but
4:59:39once everything gets transferred over to
4:59:42phoenix it's it's a different story
4:59:45so i would not see that again no any
4:59:47cash that was there is yours
4:59:50like if you had cash in your purse
4:59:51that's your money i also had cash in my
4:59:53safe
4:59:56i don't think they took any of that
5:00:01another was mentioned that uh
5:00:04there was uh some cash they saw and they
5:00:06just documented it and left it
5:00:11anyway i don't i mean no that's not
5:00:13important no it's important it's
5:00:14important to you and i understand that
5:00:18i mean there's things that that i would
5:00:20think of if if i was in your situation
5:00:23i'd want to take care of the people who
5:00:25love me and that i love and
5:00:27want to make sure that everything was
5:00:28set
5:00:32because certain things you're not going
5:00:33to be able to do anymore
5:00:37like hug my family
5:00:39no you'll be able to
5:00:42well if you can visit it's like behind a
5:00:44class you know no it's not
5:00:57when i moved away they never came to see
5:00:59me i was going for 10 years
5:01:04from my understanding some of that was
5:01:06because because of you
5:01:08i had a house with a free bedroom and a
5:01:11bed and a pool and everything you could
5:01:13want and they never came to visit me
5:01:14once it's my first home i'm sorry this
5:01:17is all stupid and it's irrelevant i'm
5:01:18just saying they're not going to come to
5:01:20arizona and they shouldn't have to come
5:01:22to arizona
5:01:24and i don't think i'd want them to
5:01:26anyway
5:01:30so yeah when you say there are certain
5:01:32things that i won't do anymore i know
5:01:34that it's really sinking
5:01:37wait a minute y'all think your sister
5:01:39and your brothers will come visit you
5:01:41yeah sure they would of course they
5:01:43you don't think your mom will come visit
5:01:45you
5:01:46she will
5:01:48who do you think is worrying about you
5:01:49more right now
5:01:53i think your mom and dad are worried
5:01:54more than anything i am dad went to the
5:01:56hospital yesterday because he was having
5:01:58a bad day
5:02:05and he gets these things where they just
5:02:06can't get his heart rate down
5:02:11and it's not
5:02:13i mean i haven't really been the cause
5:02:15of any of that prior it's just happened
5:02:18but
5:02:20yesterday i have everything to do with
5:02:22it
5:02:23it doesn't even matter maybe he's had a
5:02:25long life
5:02:27everything every breath he takes right
5:02:28now is because modern technology so
5:02:32he's bought him a lot of time but
5:02:39i'm so sorry for travis's family
5:02:46well they're asking for answers
5:02:49what can you give me
5:02:51what do you want me to tell them
5:03:01i will tell them anything that you want
5:03:03me to
5:03:11and it's not going to
5:03:13solve anything for them it's not going
5:03:15to
5:03:16fill
5:03:17that void
5:03:18curiosity but
5:03:20i think at least it'll be a start
5:03:26what is it you want to say
5:03:30i will call her as soon as i'm done
5:03:32talking to you
5:03:37um
5:03:38one thing you could say and this has
5:03:40nothing to do with
5:03:42his death but it's something they may
5:03:43want to see
5:03:44um
5:03:46two nights ago
5:03:47it took me five and a half hours but i
5:03:49posted a 45 minute video on youtube i'm
5:03:51doing a training in san bernardino
5:03:54um
5:03:56where did you post that on youtube if
5:03:59you go to youtube it takes some time a
5:04:01couple hours to actually get it up and
5:04:03you know once it's propped they have to
5:04:05go through some processing thing but
5:04:07if you type in travis alexander
5:04:10space dash space
5:04:12systems training
5:04:14so systems apostrophe s training
5:04:20travis alexander
5:04:23and then a dash there's like a space and
5:04:25a dash
5:04:28space and just yeah and then systems
5:04:31training
5:04:35apostrophe on this i don't know if that
5:04:37makes a difference but that's exactly
5:04:38what i titled it
5:04:40and then his friend chris hughes gives
5:04:42about a six and a half minute
5:04:43introduction to him and then travis gets
5:04:45up there and does a 30-minute training
5:04:46and he talks a lot about what's in the
5:04:48introduction to his book
5:04:50um he talks about his grandfather
5:04:53vic
5:04:55he loves his grandparents
5:04:57yeah
5:04:58know he still loves his grandparents
5:05:01he loves his parents and his family and
5:05:03you and i have similar beliefs and
5:05:08you know we know he's okay now
5:05:11i know and i know that he's okay and
5:05:12he's in a good place and i know that
5:05:14doesn't make it any better here for
5:05:15anybody
5:05:20but
5:05:22there's always that but
5:05:25i think he's waiting for you
5:05:29to give relief to other people
5:05:31who are still here with us
5:05:34and you you know you have to
5:05:37you can't leave it unfinished
5:05:41that's the last piece of this puzzle
5:05:51it is completely up to you jody
5:05:59i told you yesterday i have details on
5:06:04how things happen there's ways to figure
5:06:06out
5:06:10but the biggest question that everybody
5:06:12always asks is why
5:06:18is the biggest question of our life it
5:06:20is
5:06:21why are we here
5:06:23why do we suffer where we go through the
5:06:24things that we do
5:06:27why do we hurt each other
5:06:33the biggest reason i've ever found is
5:06:35for us to have happiness
5:06:41we're here today i think
5:06:45in whatever situation that we have
5:06:49no matter where we're at who we are
5:06:53and what our situation is we can at
5:06:55least try to be happy
5:07:21do you want to talk about what happened
5:07:22today
5:07:26i've got the images in my head and
5:07:30i can explain
5:07:32whatever it is you want about what i saw
5:07:35when i went there
5:07:38what i can't do is i can't show you
5:07:40pictures
5:07:52what time did you get there that day
5:08:03the pictures that i have the first ones
5:08:05show you they're at about 1
5:08:0845 or so
5:08:13was it soon before that or had you been
5:08:15there for a while already
5:08:23i know his roommates are off at work
5:08:25during that time and don't come home
5:08:27till about 6 30 7 o'clock
5:08:35they don't even talk to them really
5:08:39just seems like they just kind of rent
5:08:40rooms and
5:08:42they don't really socialize
5:08:45they kind of stick to themselves
5:08:48especially his new roommate
5:08:51who was that
5:08:55did you know his new roommate
5:08:58i knew zach was there zach and uh
5:09:01enrique was the other one i think i saw
5:09:03enrique at his funeral services
5:09:06memorial services but i didn't meet him
5:09:10mexican guys kind of short quiet kind of
5:09:14reserved
5:09:16um these other roommates i knew dustin
5:09:18who was i think in
5:09:20the room that shared travis's wall yeah
5:09:22and john edwards
5:09:32those guys we we have all of their
5:09:34things as well so
5:09:36i mean they're asking too they're
5:09:39zach is going through so much right now
5:09:41he's like how can we how could we not
5:09:44have known
5:09:47that he was there
5:09:50for days
5:09:51he's he racks his brain he calls me two
5:09:54three times a week
5:09:58you know just
5:10:01just goes over and over in his mind he
5:10:03has no idea
5:10:05and he was the one who first went into
5:10:07the room and found him
5:10:09he's the one
5:10:12i've heard so many rumors about how that
5:10:14happened
5:10:15yeah
5:10:18other friends came over looking for him
5:10:20and
5:10:22they went into the room there's a few of
5:10:24them
5:10:25they came out and
5:10:27you know what they'll never be the same
5:10:28they
5:10:30you know when you see something like
5:10:32that it's it's difficult especially when
5:10:34it's somebody you know somebody you love
5:10:42i deal with it all the time so it
5:10:43doesn't bother me as much
5:10:46you must have to remain detached quite a
5:10:48bit
5:10:51you know who i usually get attached to
5:10:55is the people i'm talking to
5:10:59to you
5:11:00yours you're the one that i'm going to
5:11:02remember
5:11:03i remember him but i didn't know him
5:11:07i will remember you
5:11:13i mean we've talked so much since that
5:11:15day
5:11:16over the phone and here
5:11:22i'll probably talk to you some more
5:11:24later when we get back to arizona
5:11:26whenever you go i don't know
5:11:41i know
5:11:48i don't think i can avoid it though
5:11:52everybody's hurting already there's
5:11:53nothing else you can say or do that
5:11:55could
5:11:56help that except for maybe an
5:11:58explanation of why it happened and how
5:12:00it happened
5:12:06it's not my job to
5:12:11have an opinion of you and your
5:12:13personality and your character it's
5:12:16it's my job to
5:12:18sit here and talk to you and
5:12:21get the facts of the
5:12:23of the incident and
5:12:26present those two
5:12:28to the court and whoever else needs to
5:12:30know
5:12:40you want to try to open up and and talk
5:12:42about what happened that day
5:12:45because i'm ready
5:12:47i do but i don't think i'm ready
5:12:50i mean
5:12:51there's not much to say
5:12:57you want to start and we can stop it
5:12:59anytime you want
5:13:03fill in some details
5:13:06this is what i do to assure that
5:13:11you're not just saying you did something
5:13:15just to cop out
5:13:18because there are certain details that
5:13:22only i know
5:13:24and the person who did this knows
5:13:29nobody else does
5:13:32and i use this information to confirm
5:13:36what i suspected
5:13:41so if you can just start and give me
5:13:43some details
5:13:46as confirmation then that'll be fine and
5:13:49if you want we can continue at another
5:13:50time
5:13:59well then let's start
5:14:02because i know that part that really
5:14:04wants to is that part inside of you that
5:14:06is telling you to do what's right
5:14:20we don't have to go over details
5:14:22to all the details
5:14:37why did you go there that day jody
5:14:42why did you show up that morning
5:14:52i have questions too
5:14:54were you going to try to convince them
5:14:55not to go to mexico or are you going to
5:14:59oh no try to convince them to go on a
5:15:02trip with you or no he would never not
5:15:04go to mexico i would never want him to
5:15:06not go he was um
5:15:08going to see chi chinese and it's on the
5:15:10list of thousand places
5:15:12that's one of the things i want to do in
5:15:13my lifetime
5:15:15yeah it's an important part of our
5:15:18history
5:15:20both in the church i guess our heritage
5:15:22teacher
5:15:25that's where my people come
5:15:26from yeah
5:15:31so why were you there that day
5:15:34please tell me
5:15:38did you just miss him
5:15:42did he call you did he miss you when
5:15:44what was it
5:15:55the only other explanation i can think
5:15:56of is that you went there for one
5:15:58purpose
5:16:00and that's to hurt him
5:16:04and if that's the case if that's the
5:16:06truth and that's what you need to say
5:16:18if you want me to call and tell his
5:16:19family that
5:16:21you're sorry and that you apologize for
5:16:23what happened i can do that
5:16:28whatever you want
5:16:31this is your time right now
5:16:37i flew up here for a lot of different
5:16:39reasons and one of them the main reason
5:16:42was to sit down with you here
5:16:44and talk to you about what happened
5:16:48i did it yesterday
5:16:53and now i'm here today
5:16:58but the time is limited
5:17:07there's so many things that i want to
5:17:08say
5:17:10start with one
5:17:13start with the beginning
5:17:21was it a last minute change from your
5:17:24trip to come down go to down to arizona
5:17:29i bet you were going through your head
5:17:32should i just go or should i just keep
5:17:35going to utah
5:17:44it's only an additional 300 miles from
5:17:47where you were so
5:18:09joanie your time's running out
5:18:12i'm not gonna be able to talk to you
5:18:14anymore
5:18:16and i want to
5:18:23once you get into the system i'm not
5:18:25going to be able to talk to you anymore
5:18:36you leave so many questions unanswered
5:18:38for me and for his family and for your
5:18:41family
5:18:51you were there that day weren't you
5:19:00were you guys alone
5:19:11can you answer that for me
5:19:17were you guys alone
5:19:41answer that for me
5:19:49should i be looking for somebody else
5:19:58is there anybody else with you besides
5:19:59you and travis
5:20:04are you protecting somebody else
5:20:22jody sorry i'm just
5:20:27i just don't know what to do
5:20:30trying to just figure it out
5:20:32i'm right here
5:20:35i'm right in front of you
5:20:38this is what you need to focus on right
5:20:40now
5:20:58you had rachel call me for a reason
5:21:01that's why i came back here
5:21:16just don't know what to say
5:21:20they deserve to have some peace
5:21:26well you want me to ask you a question
5:21:28that they've been asking me maybe you
5:21:30can answer it
5:21:32same question i've been asking you
5:21:35was there somebody else with you
5:21:38that's the number one question that his
5:21:40whole family has been asking
5:21:44what do i tell them
5:21:52what do you want me to say to them
5:21:58because the only answer i can give them
5:22:00is i don't have any evidence to show
5:22:03there was anybody else there
5:22:08well that's another way of saying
5:22:10i don't know for sure
5:22:13and that's absolutely true i don't know
5:22:16if somebody else was there with you
5:22:26please give me that at least
5:22:31for them
5:22:42you know if there was you don't have to
5:22:44say a name
5:22:46it's a simple yes or no
5:22:58yes or no jody
5:23:04look at me
5:23:07please
5:23:08they want to know
5:23:11was somebody else there with you
5:23:26i'm just trying to think
5:23:30you keep finding it
5:23:44what happened to me today
5:23:57if i just told you every single detail
5:23:59that i know
5:24:01and i gave you a confession
5:24:04nothing else changes
5:24:09it just speeds up the process
5:24:14in what way do i go to arizona faster
5:24:17yeah
5:24:20the process in arizona's pizza
5:24:23so if i maintain my innocence then i
5:24:26stay here longer
5:24:27no no you don't really stay here longer
5:24:29that speeds up the process in arizona
5:24:31like the trial and all that jazz
5:24:36do you want to put your family through a
5:24:37trial
5:24:41that's another question you have to ask
5:24:43yourself
5:24:47no
5:24:48can i do it all without a trial or does
5:24:50it have to be a trial it's something
5:24:51that you can discuss
5:24:53with the prosecutor yeah
5:24:57and i'm on the phone with him
5:25:00pretty much every day giving him updates
5:25:02what's his name
5:25:03his name is juan martinez
5:25:06he's the number one prosecutor
5:25:09in phoenix
5:25:15well at least in my book he is
5:25:21is phoenix yes
5:25:32i wonder if i should just get a lawyer
5:25:34first
5:25:36that's completely up to you
5:25:39i know that you can't stay here forever
5:25:41and you need to go back
5:25:42if i get one will you be able to still
5:25:45talk to me afterward or does it
5:25:46everything stop or whatever i'll tell
5:25:48you exactly what the lawyer is going to
5:25:49tell you to do and he's going to say
5:25:50nope
5:25:51nothing what
5:25:53no more contact
5:25:55she had her chance
5:25:57you had your chance to talk to her it's
5:26:00over well i mean i just would want his
5:26:02advice and it doesn't necessarily mean
5:26:04that he um
5:26:07that i'm going to take his advice nor
5:26:08does it mean that
5:26:10you know that's completely up to you
5:26:11sitting in a cell somewhere not arguing
5:26:14i cannot advise you either way
5:26:20but what i can advise you on is
5:26:26the truth
5:26:30the details of the case that you have in
5:26:32your head
5:26:34that you can give me will
5:26:37allow me to verify
5:26:39the information that i have
5:26:43to make sure that i'm looking at the
5:26:44right person
5:26:47and to verify my theory that nobody else
5:26:49was there with you
5:26:57it's like i said yesterday there is no
5:26:59doubt in my mind what happened there
5:27:01that day
5:27:03a couple of details that i don't have
5:27:08how it started and why it started
5:27:22and like i said before if you can
5:27:23provide me just a few
5:27:27i can at least relay to the family
5:27:32that would be fine with me
5:27:35if you don't want to give all the
5:27:36details we don't have to go through all
5:27:38the details
5:27:46let's let's at least start
5:27:53let's start right here right now
5:28:07if there's a question that i ask you
5:28:09that you feel like you don't want to
5:28:10answer
5:28:12you can say no i don't want to answer
5:28:14that right now
5:28:16okay
5:28:49do you want to move forward or no
5:28:51yes i do i just
5:28:54you do
5:28:56i do i do but well let's do it
5:28:59i'm here
5:29:00i know i'm not trying to stall i'm not
5:29:02trying to waste your time i know you're
5:29:04not trying to stop
5:29:08i know it's difficult for you
5:29:13difficult for anybody sitting in your
5:29:14shoes right now
5:30:03you decide
5:30:20i don't want to push
5:30:27it's your own free will
5:30:32that's one thing that we have is our own
5:30:34free will
5:31:03it's kind of it's all really blurry it
5:31:05really is blurry
5:31:24what went through your mind after it
5:31:25happened
5:31:31a lot of fear
5:31:35what did you think when you were driving
5:31:36away
5:31:52i can't imagine what you were going
5:31:54through waiting for it to
5:31:56finally come out
5:32:00waiting for what
5:32:02the nerves are here was no longer with
5:32:04us
5:32:08he must have been going through hell
5:32:15every day that went by what were you
5:32:17thinking
5:32:27what was that i'm scared i'm sorry
5:32:31it's okay
5:32:36you just went on with your day like
5:32:37nothing had happened
5:32:40can't you
5:32:41you had to
5:32:48did you tell anybody what had happened
5:32:55that's a bit hard
5:33:08as soon as i get back
5:33:10the detectives went to
5:33:13to go pick up the rental car that you
5:33:15had that day
5:33:17and they took the photos
5:33:20there's probably something in the rental
5:33:22car
5:33:23like one
5:33:29the trunk
5:33:32in the back seat
5:33:34that's what we're going to look for so
5:33:36i was just thinking maybe the handles
5:33:38lock steering wheel something like that
5:33:40things that get touched
5:33:43is that what was going through your head
5:33:44when you left
5:33:47what did i leave behind what did i touch
5:33:50yeah
5:33:52what was going through your head when
5:33:53you left his neighborhood there
5:34:10a little bit of a survival instinct but
5:34:11it was mostly just
5:34:13just wrong
5:34:22fear are you worried that his roommates
5:34:25were gonna get home soon
5:34:29do you even think about that
5:34:43that's the first thing that i was
5:34:45thinking about it's when she left here
5:34:49she barely missed his roommates
5:34:52or maybe his roommates had gotten home
5:34:57they just didn't hear her
5:35:02did they hear anybody at all
5:35:06they saw things which weren't usual
5:35:09like what
5:35:10they saw his ctr ring and his watch on
5:35:13the kitchen counter and they thought
5:35:15that was odd
5:35:16he never leaves town without though
5:35:18he always leaves us there but unless
5:35:20he's leaving then he takes those things
5:35:22and puts them
5:35:23there were clues here and there but they
5:35:25just went on with their day like nothing
5:35:27had happened
5:35:28without even asking questions
5:35:32they knew that he was going another trip
5:35:34but they didn't know what day
5:35:36that's youtube who's still even on
5:35:38tuesday tuesday
5:35:40the following
5:35:46found them on week
5:35:51but all those little things that they
5:35:53talked about now they
5:35:55zach is killing himself he's like i i
5:35:57don't know how i did not see this
5:36:02why didn't i just go check on him
5:36:09why didn't i just follow my instinct and
5:36:11go look
5:36:17travis didn't always bond with his
5:36:18roommates he did with some he bonded
5:36:20with aaron even though he had an
5:36:22intolerance for aaron's lifestyle
5:36:25he bonded pretty well with his friend
5:36:27josh ford who lives back in california
5:36:29he wasn't too close with zach or enrique
5:36:32no or his previous roommates
5:36:35they seem to
5:36:37they seem to have been just people who
5:36:39rent rooms out from there they don't
5:36:41become friends yeah they have their own
5:36:43lifestyles and then they go on
5:36:46yeah he's rules where you know lds
5:36:48standards and pay her in on time
5:36:51and be clean
5:37:03what time did you leave there that day
5:37:12um
5:37:29don't remember
5:37:34just trying to drive and
5:37:36get as much distance as you could
5:37:42um
5:37:46holland were you in the house after it
5:37:47happened
5:37:50i know you tried to clean yourself up
5:37:52and clean up what you could
5:38:00it didn't take too long but you did
5:38:06why did you throw the camera in the
5:38:08washing machine
5:38:12we found blood in the downstairs
5:38:14bathroom where somebody had tried to
5:38:15wash your hands
5:38:17there's blood on the outside of the
5:38:18washing machine there's
5:38:21there's little things that give us clues
5:38:23to what you were doing afterwards
5:38:26do you remember those things
5:38:29no
5:38:32you remember something
5:38:38what was your intention going there that
5:38:40day
5:39:02what was the purpose of the visit
5:39:05the same as
5:39:17i'm just before to remember i'm just
5:39:19trying to remember that week
5:39:21the whole week
5:39:23and the week prior had a lot to do with
5:39:25it
5:39:26the weekend of friday night
5:39:28did you have plans on going down there
5:39:31i know you said he had called and wanted
5:39:33you to come down
5:39:36at what point did you decide
5:39:38okay i'm going he always was like
5:39:42not i want to say meddling but he was
5:39:44always like
5:39:47more concerned than i felt he needed to
5:39:49be about my finances
5:39:52and he's like well how can you make a
5:39:53road trip
5:39:54under this and then you know
5:39:57well he expected everyone to be like he
5:39:59is
5:40:01he did
5:40:02he really did
5:40:04i expected that hey if you go on a road
5:40:06trip you better be thinking about this
5:40:08and that there were so many times where
5:40:10i just threw my responsibilities to win
5:40:12and went on road trips with him because
5:40:15i am a little irresponsible when it
5:40:16comes that it's not just because it was
5:40:18with him it's because it was the
5:40:19traveling
5:40:21and um you know when he leaves he
5:40:23usually makes sure everything is planned
5:40:25out
5:40:26and that he has enough money for it
5:40:29and you just kind of take off sometimes
5:40:31yeah i guess
5:40:32you're very very free spirit
5:40:35i've known that from the beginning
5:40:38sometimes it's good sometimes it's not
5:40:39so good
5:40:40what gives you the indication like when
5:40:42you say you know that from the beginning
5:40:44i'm talking to you
5:40:46talking to people who know you
5:40:50it's like oh that's just jody you know
5:40:53i am
5:40:58and you want to go do something you
5:41:00just go deal with and you'll deal with
5:41:02the consequences later
5:41:04yeah
5:41:12when did you decide to go visit him
5:41:15at what point were you already on the
5:41:16road or
5:41:17was it from here
5:41:20did you already know you were going to
5:41:21go visit him when you left here
5:41:36i've done that before
5:41:39sometimes i just leave and
5:41:40oh you know what
5:41:42i'm gonna go visit this person while i'm
5:41:44on the way
5:42:09um
5:42:15go ahead did you see any of his
5:42:17roommates cars out in the driveway when
5:42:19you left
5:42:25that part just bothers me because it was
5:42:27so close to the time when one of the
5:42:28roommates came home
5:42:32and i just i'm thinking maybe you were
5:42:34still in the house when he was there no
5:42:37um
5:42:38no i was in
5:42:40or in the driveway they would have seen
5:42:42the car then right
5:42:44yeah oh my face was always right behind
5:42:46travis's car and he parked in the it's a
5:42:48three-part garage and he took the metal
5:42:50space
5:42:52he had the prius or his bmw before that
5:42:55and then there was like a smaller little
5:42:56space but it was enough for a car but it
5:42:58was always jammed
5:43:01he was very much he didn't save stuff
5:43:04you know
5:43:05he had so much storage space he was so
5:43:07generous when i moved there he let me
5:43:08store all my stuff there because i went
5:43:10from i went from
5:43:12a house to a room
5:43:14and so i had artwork because i mean i
5:43:17paint
5:43:20art supplies
5:43:22photos
5:43:23books and books and books and books so
5:43:26many books some weren't even mine there
5:43:28belonged to my friend matt i was running
5:43:30that car yesterday because i was taking
5:43:32a trip to monterey
5:43:35yeah i was gonna
5:43:36drop off some books to him that i'd had
5:43:39for years we dated like eight years ago
5:43:41we're still friends
5:43:43so um
5:43:45all of his books that somehow ended up
5:43:47keeping and some were mine's the most
5:43:48like his attack and spiritual kind of
5:43:50books
5:43:51that i'm probably never gonna read now
5:43:53because they're just so out there
5:43:55i'm sure they'll get those back too
5:43:58and then some photos also too daryl who
5:44:00was another guy dated after matt that we
5:44:03bought the house together
5:44:06and kitchen supplies i daryl paid for so
5:44:09much when he was there he flew the bill
5:44:11with costco so i had um they said that
5:44:13they took knives out of my car
5:44:15um i don't even know
5:44:17you know they're daryl's i mean they've
5:44:19been in storage for years just
5:44:20collecting tests
5:44:23yeah they were all just maybe one might
5:44:25have been mine but like i just i think
5:44:28they were daryl's
5:44:29and so there's those and a bunch of
5:44:31kitchen supplies and pictures of him and
5:44:33his son mostly and we used to go to 49er
5:44:35games all the time just camping trips
5:44:38so the car you driven there was the
5:44:39rental car yeah the ford focus
5:44:42oh that's the car i'm gonna go pick up
5:44:45before focus oh
5:44:47yeah
5:44:47i know they were gonna rent you another
5:44:49car but then
5:44:51uh something happened with that first
5:44:52car either you didn't like it or not oh
5:44:55it was red and i thought because i
5:44:57always hear that you don't drive a red
5:44:58car because i would never buy a red car
5:45:00and it was fine it was a ford focus too
5:45:02um and then you got the other car
5:45:04instead i was like do you have one with
5:45:05a more neutral color because it's like
5:45:07you always get pulled over and you get
5:45:08tickets no i don't know if that's true
5:45:10it's just something i've been told since
5:45:12it's just there's a lot of people that
5:45:13rent cars who like to go fast it's a
5:45:15personality thing
5:45:18it's not because of the car color
5:45:20can i just certainly it's
5:45:21psychologically because it's more
5:45:22noticeable and it's like you know red
5:45:24flags kind of thing
5:45:25i know travis doesn't lock his doors
5:45:27when he's home was the door open when
5:45:29you got there did you have to go through
5:45:30the garage or how did you get inside
5:45:33did you knock
5:45:39everybody says he just leaves his doors
5:45:41open when he when he's home
5:45:43trust everybody
5:45:46um have you ever seen the movie the
5:45:47secret
5:45:49i don't think so it's kind of you
5:45:51familiar with the whole law of
5:45:52attraction kind of thing like what you
5:45:54think you become when you bring into
5:45:56your life
5:45:57he felt um that if you lock your doors
5:45:59then what are you telling the universe
5:46:01what are you telling the either out
5:46:03there is that i need to lock my door for
5:46:06a reason and i want to be safe yeah i
5:46:08want to be safe which also gives the
5:46:10impression that well there's somebody
5:46:11that could hurt me so
5:46:13and by trusting and opening them
5:46:15he's a very very trusting person
5:46:18and that's what made him who he is
5:46:23also let's come from a different kind of
5:46:25background and
5:46:28have a different type of philosophy
5:46:33doing what i do for a living
5:46:35i lock my doors
5:46:38yeah it gets me coming from salinas my
5:46:41boys walked doors i used to go to sleep
5:46:43at night and i would hear gunshots we
5:46:44weren't in a bad neighborhood but our
5:46:45neighborhood neighbor in another
5:46:46neighborhood it wasn't that great and
5:46:48gunshots carried
5:46:49and they were because salinas is
5:46:50agricultural and there are a lot of
5:46:52fields and i used to think that they
5:46:53were hunters in the future their dogs
5:46:56catching animals or something they were
5:46:57all just gay
5:47:00i'm sorry i'm not trans that's okay i've
5:47:02noticed that when i talk to you you kind
5:47:04of go up sometimes travis used to be
5:47:06like get to the point
5:47:08get to the point and he and that made me
5:47:10kind of mad he had a little bit of a
5:47:11double standard with that because if
5:47:13you've ever if you ever see him train or
5:47:15talk he ask any of the leaders in
5:47:18prepaid legal he is notorious for going
5:47:21too long
5:47:22um his friend dave hall in utah
5:47:25cuts him off and he got mad at him once
5:47:28because he went five minutes over and he
5:47:29was new he just talks and talks and
5:47:30talks and i said you know you're kind of
5:47:32long-winded yourself well he had that he
5:47:35had a future in that you know that's
5:47:36what he wanted to do and he was good at
5:47:39it he was so good
5:47:45he talks about things with more
5:47:46substance than i just ran
5:47:55so it was the door unlocked when you got
5:47:57there
5:48:04did you go you went through the door of
5:48:05the garage
5:48:07i know a lot of his friends have the key
5:48:08code for the garage too
5:48:10doesn't keep that a secret either
5:48:14i got that from
5:48:15several different friends
5:48:20yeah zero eight one seven
5:48:30was he expecting you
5:48:45yes
5:48:47did you surprise him
5:48:51i know he was always happy to see you
5:48:59what you guys had was not wrong jody
5:49:08going over all his stuff he was always
5:49:10happy to see you
5:49:21he told me this time when
5:49:23because i was in his ward boundaries so
5:49:24uh
5:49:26one of my roommates went to his church
5:49:29and
5:49:30they were doing some church activity and
5:49:32travis was getting a ride
5:49:34um when he said his friend
5:49:36katie barnes was in the back seat he was
5:49:39another seat
5:49:40and there are two people in the front i
5:49:41guess they were all going to squeeze in
5:49:43and go to this church activity and
5:49:45they were swinging by and pick up baby
5:49:46amy
5:49:48and i wasn't there i don't think i was
5:49:50at work or something
5:49:51but he said he wasn't doing much he must
5:49:53have been on his phone or something
5:49:54texting but he said he they parked and
5:49:56he looked up it was my house he's like
5:49:59what are we doing here
5:50:01and he freaked out i started laughing
5:50:04and told me that story and they're like
5:50:06we're getting amy she's going with us
5:50:09oh okay
5:50:10and he just kind of sat there twiddled
5:50:12his thumbs and got amy and she left this
5:50:14after you guys
5:50:20it was just i think it just weirded him
5:50:21out
5:50:22i don't know what reminded me of that
5:50:24just now you said something he was happy
5:50:26to see
5:50:26yeah i don't think he would he would
5:50:28have been it would have been awkward i
5:50:30think then because we kept
5:50:31you guys had a different kind of
5:50:33relationship you guys were happy to see
5:50:34each other but for some reason he
5:50:36couldn't
5:50:37outwardly show it in public yeah
5:50:41he was he was afraid of his image and to
5:50:43him his image was everything
5:50:46he told me on several occasions that it
5:50:48it saddened him and it bothered him
5:50:51he had two friends in particular that
5:50:53gave him a very hard time about our
5:50:55friendship
5:50:56and i was christmas guy um but i think
5:50:59they did it out of concern for his
5:51:03his future um his like his marital
5:51:06status
5:51:08um
5:51:09you know by him and i continue that we
5:51:11were both just postponing what we should
5:51:13be focusing on instead
5:51:15well you're living life
5:51:18life is what you make of it it's not set
5:51:20in stone
5:51:24yeah i know the church has a general
5:51:26plan you you go if you're a guy you go
5:51:29and go on a mission you come back you
5:51:30find a girl and you get married and you
5:51:32start having kids
5:51:33and you start contributing to society
5:51:35and to your church
5:51:37yeah that's really not a family you you
5:51:40came into something
5:51:43i don't know whether you came in with
5:51:45both feet you should have one foot out
5:51:47but it's a whole different society in
5:51:50that church
5:51:52it's an all or nothing it is and i think
5:51:55that's just because the church actually
5:51:58and that's what people what's their
5:51:59standards it's they have the most
5:52:01standards and you look around
5:52:04and there's not one person in that
5:52:06church in those pews
5:52:08who doesn't need to be there
5:52:11if they were perfect
5:52:13they wouldn't have to go
5:52:17and sometimes i think it's a facade
5:52:21i know
5:52:25travis kept trying to live up to those
5:52:27standards but
5:52:29he's a human being and he's
5:52:32both of your mortal and you have free
5:52:34will and that's that
5:52:42sometimes i think maybe he put too much
5:52:44pressure on himself to be perfect
5:52:47or to at least portray himself to be
5:52:49perfect
5:53:01and that's maybe why
5:53:03something like this happens
5:53:05things get way out of hand
5:53:08i just i'm
5:53:10you know i'm not an evil person i know
5:53:12you're not but i've always had
5:53:15and i'm not a promiscuous person
5:53:18um
5:53:22something attracted you guys to each
5:53:24other yeah and i think there was also i
5:53:26already i knew him well i knew him
5:53:28through and through
5:53:30i loved him and i cared about him
5:53:32um and i knew we weren't gonna get
5:53:34married so i just
5:53:36how did you know you weren't gonna get
5:53:37married
5:53:38um
5:53:40a couple of reasons it's like oil and
5:53:43water you guys just don't mix
5:53:45we mixed really well for a time
5:53:47but i think when i discovered
5:53:50his ways
5:53:52last year
5:53:53it was so hard but
5:53:56what ways are those
5:53:58um i just he didn't seem like husband
5:54:00material but i it didn't mean that he
5:54:02wouldn't be in the future it just meant
5:54:04that
5:54:05um
5:54:06something that kristen skye said to me
5:54:07back in january of 2007 really stuck and
5:54:10i said do you want to be like deanna and
5:54:11wait six years
5:54:14they made jokes saying if you wait six
5:54:16years you can get free breast implants
5:54:18because he bought her resting plants at
5:54:20one point
5:54:21and they're like and then he'll really
5:54:22did it you know
5:54:24just all these things and i was like
5:54:25what why would they say anyway that my
5:54:28part stuck though and
5:54:30and i felt that
5:54:31you know women have
5:54:33not all women
5:54:35listen you're not mimi and not certain
5:54:36other women but most women just fall all
5:54:38over themselves for travis he's nice and
5:54:41he he seems like the whole package i
5:54:44think mimi kind of saw through
5:54:45everything there's some people out there
5:54:47that can see through stuff
5:54:48i was um
5:54:51i kind of did too like i had never
5:54:54been pursued by a person like that
5:54:58um
5:54:59but at the same time i saw i i'd like to
5:55:02say like maybe saw through this but i
5:55:05saw beneath that and through that like
5:55:07very like he wrote that thing on his
5:55:08blog the gold from within
5:55:10and i really did see like inside he
5:55:14was an amazing person he was a good
5:55:16person he was a generous person he
5:55:19he gave so much and he well maybe you
5:55:21you chose to actually look past that
5:55:23first level
5:55:24somebody like me looks past that first
5:55:26level and sees that's all something i
5:55:28don't like already
5:55:30and i'm not going to look any further
5:55:32you want yourself he spends a lot of
5:55:34time at the temple so i think
5:55:36i've never been endowed i've never been
5:55:38through the temple but from what i
5:55:39understand i think that such a sacred
5:55:41place
5:55:42and meditating there and being there
5:55:44will help to give you further insight
5:55:45about where
5:55:46just you as a person are supposed to
5:55:48make a move on a certain decision in
5:55:50your life so maybe that just wasn't for
5:55:51her
5:55:53i also was thinking
5:55:55after the fact i didn't get every chance
5:55:57to discuss this with him i didn't know
5:55:58she was going to cancun but
5:56:00um and i didn't know she didn't she flat
5:56:02out told him that what i thought so
5:56:04that's completely out of the the
5:56:06theory that you went there to convince
5:56:08him to
5:56:09not go no not at all
5:56:12and not at all because that's the first
5:56:13theory that was that was thrown out
5:56:15there was
5:56:16she was jealous
5:56:18she knew that he was going to cancun
5:56:20with this other girl and it was just
5:56:22jealousy i never it's the simplest i
5:56:25asked him at one point after i moved i
5:56:27was like i was like hey who are you
5:56:28taking a cancun by the way i knew
5:56:31it wasn't at one point there was a girl
5:56:32named miranda who and she wasn't limited
5:56:35well she's just in the business and she
5:56:36saw me at the memorial and she's like
5:56:38now wasn't he gonna take you to cancun
5:56:41and that was like we found out about
5:56:43cancun a year prior
5:56:44um right about the time we broke up and
5:56:46so like i never really
5:56:49assumed that i had a ticket there
5:56:51and you know as things went on it was
5:56:53just never discussed so there was never
5:56:55any discussion
5:56:57yeah there was never a discussion that i
5:56:58was going to cancun not on that trip not
5:57:01with him maybe sometime in the future
5:57:02some other time with somebody else but
5:57:04now
5:57:04so no that wasn't an issue what about
5:57:06the trip with him coming up to you could
5:57:08come visit you is that something that
5:57:10was planned is that something that yeah
5:57:12because i wasn't even sure that that was
5:57:13that was true no no it was postponed
5:57:15twice
5:57:17um he was gonna maybe come up and i i
5:57:19kind of like was hoping he would come
5:57:21and by my march i'm sorry may 24th
5:57:23because i was singing the national
5:57:24anthem at the races and i thought
5:57:28i just it's part of one of my goals for
5:57:30this year was one of my fears to
5:57:31overcome was being in front of large
5:57:33crowd or public speaking um
5:57:35anxiety with crowds yeah there were
5:57:37three fears one was handguns which is
5:57:39one of the reason i got a gun there was
5:57:40a chp here in town that said he would
5:57:41take me out and go target practicing and
5:57:43i went to the sporting goods store
5:57:45several times to see what he had and
5:57:46they were all in the five or six hundred
5:57:48dollar range for the kind that i had so
5:57:50they were too expensive but then there
5:57:51was this one it was cheap it was like a
5:57:52hundred and something dollars and i said
5:57:54all right let's do it so i put
5:57:56my money down and got my little 10-day
5:57:58background check and all that so and
5:58:00then i got it i was happy you know
5:58:02um
5:58:04and then
5:58:05and the third one was skydiving so
5:58:07that's gonna do that sometimes but he
5:58:09wasn't able to make it up for
5:58:11the um
5:58:12he was scared to tell me that too he's
5:58:14like he's like i know you get really
5:58:16scared not scared hesitant he didn't
5:58:18watch any feelings he didn't want to
5:58:19hurt my feelings and he told me that he
5:58:21was on the phone in early may because i
5:58:22had known about that i was gonna sing
5:58:24eight weeks prior about eight weeks
5:58:26prior
5:58:28yeah because i had approached the guy at
5:58:29the state dome by the purple plum which
5:58:31is this one in the middle excess there
5:58:33he works at the uh gas station area
5:58:36this morning oh really it's pretty good
5:58:38food you just worked there didn't you
5:58:39yeah
5:58:41they're good people yeah
5:58:42i went to go eat there and i just i
5:58:44couldn't get out of my mind
5:58:45so i used to work here
5:58:48constantly thinking about it
5:58:50because
5:58:52because of this
5:58:55it was a good place to be i worked there
5:58:56twice actually when i was 18.
5:58:59or snow i would my dad closed his
5:59:01restaurant when i was 16 or 17 and
5:59:03that's when i was a server there and
5:59:05being a server in a restaurant is
5:59:07probably one of the best positions
5:59:08because you get you may tend to make a
5:59:09little more money than the other
5:59:10positions
5:59:11it's all contingent but you know
5:59:13generally it works out in your favor
5:59:15you've got that kind of personality
5:59:17people want to tip you
5:59:20yes
5:59:21so when he didn't come up was there an
5:59:22issue with that
5:59:24did you always talk about that well he
5:59:26said it's he put it so delicately that i
5:59:28couldn't be mad i was sad but i wasn't
5:59:30meant for anything and he said i'm he's
5:59:32like i'm just not sure he said there's a
5:59:34lot of stress going on there's a lot of
5:59:36things right now you know with this and
5:59:37just that stuff going on and he's like
5:59:39i've been hesitating to tell you but it
5:59:41looks like i might not be able to make
5:59:42it up there to watch you sing and i've
5:59:44been scared to tell you that i was like
5:59:46oh you know that's he says it and he
5:59:49taught me this his technique he says in
5:59:51a way to disarm you first
5:59:53to where you're just like well oh no no
5:59:54you know reverse psychology sort of
5:59:56so he said that and i could tell that he
5:59:58really was concerned that he would hurt
6:00:01my feelings is that when you decided to
6:00:02or he decided to invite you up uh no no
6:00:05not at all um because he never
6:00:08he didn't invite me until he found out i
6:00:09was going on a road trip
6:00:11but then he's like but he's all
6:00:13definitely um definitely the first week
6:00:15of june
6:00:16he's all he's probably before i go to
6:00:18cancun
6:00:19and so um
6:00:23as that week got closer you know he was
6:00:26like look
6:00:27we had a big fight somewhere around then
6:00:30um
6:00:36i don't remember the exact timeline but
6:00:38it was in late may and
6:00:40is that when his email was sent out did
6:00:42you send him
6:00:43which oh
6:00:48oh just how i think that
6:00:50yeah because i just could tell um oh
6:00:52because i edited and and i did all the
6:00:55editing and the grammar and spelling
6:00:57he's not the greatest speller that um on
6:01:00his um
6:01:01on his
6:01:02first chapter of his book
6:01:04and he wanted to post it on his blog and
6:01:05i noticed when he posted the
6:01:07introduction that he's like special
6:01:08thanks to katie barnes and i have no
6:01:10jealousy toward her she's just a great
6:01:12girl and you know there's nothing there
6:01:14to worry about in fact
6:01:16when
6:01:16when he when i was worried about
6:01:18lisa
6:01:20andrews and elena gomez her best friend
6:01:22they were all spending a lot of time
6:01:24together so i wasn't sure that she would
6:01:25post flirtatious things on his myspace
6:01:27and he's like don't worry about that and
6:01:29you know he's like he said at one point
6:01:30he's like if you have anything to worry
6:01:32about it's it's katie barnes and so i
6:01:34was like you are so spinning it to throw
6:01:36my focus off something and i don't think
6:01:37there was ever any concern with that i
6:01:39know that he liked her but but nothing
6:01:40more um and as a friend
6:01:43and he said she's a little freaky and
6:01:45emotional and stable sometimes but i
6:01:46think she's just young um she's a nice
6:01:49girl
6:01:50and so he said that i'm like and i said
6:01:52hey
6:01:52make sure you post a special thanks to
6:01:54jody aries for editing and he's like you
6:01:56know i can't do that
6:01:58and i was like why not and he's like
6:02:01jody we've discussed this and what he
6:02:04meant was
6:02:05um people i made a few comments because
6:02:07he was like leave me comments on my blog
6:02:09and rate me five stars you know and that
6:02:11kind of thing because also it looks like
6:02:12people are going there so i left a few
6:02:14comments and he saw
6:02:16he saw people who already said things um
6:02:19and he wasn't
6:02:20he was referring to sky hughes who was
6:02:23like hey i noticed a certain someone's
6:02:24been commenting on your blog and i think
6:02:26it's because he had given her the and i
6:02:28told him to say this too um
6:02:31okay i'll be real quick because i know
6:02:32this is all just i'm just giving you
6:02:34background we sat next to each other at
6:02:35the last convention yeah and pre-in a
6:02:38prepaid legal convention in oklahoma
6:02:40city and it's because we buy our tickets
6:02:42way in advance so we bought our tickets
6:02:43last year
6:02:44um
6:02:45and you know because he qualifies for
6:02:47executive director every month which is
6:02:49a one of the top levels in the company
6:02:51he gets to sit on the floor close to the
6:02:52front as opposed to the stadium seats so
6:02:54you know i had a ticket because he
6:02:56bought a ticket for me at the time so it
6:02:58wasn't a big deal but we were just
6:03:00sitting next to each other but she made
6:03:01a comment you know he of course he has
6:03:03to explain listen you know she we got
6:03:05our tickets a year ago there's no way
6:03:07she's going to give up her seat for
6:03:08satan's seats so he sent that ticket i
6:03:10mean he sent that text either to her
6:03:12friend holly related her to her or
6:03:13someone
6:03:15anyway um
6:03:18i realized that she was giving him a
6:03:20hard time so i said listen
6:03:22tell her next time she says anything
6:03:24that jody's dating other people and that
6:03:25she's moving to california soon because
6:03:27it was already in the plans to move to
6:03:28california i don't understand why they
6:03:30just couldn't like and just tell them
6:03:32that you guys were still friends
6:03:34what what issue is it i wondered that
6:03:36too and he said it's because they
6:03:39him and sky had a lot of arguments but
6:03:41it wasn't because they didn't they
6:03:43disliked each other it's because they
6:03:45both have
6:03:47sort of fiery personalities um she's
6:03:50very
6:03:52she has
6:03:53um a strict set of standards
6:03:56um and he's just like opinionated so
6:03:59together that's kaboom
6:04:01and uh
6:04:02but they they nonetheless they were
6:04:04really best of friends especially him
6:04:06and her husband or her him and her
6:04:08husband chris
6:04:09um
6:04:11and a lot of their fights were about me
6:04:12from what i gathered i don't know a lot
6:04:14of that is that what that email was
6:04:16about is the whole thing yeah so when
6:04:18well i was we had that conversation and
6:04:20i walked to work because i was you know
6:04:23i just purple plum in my grandmother's
6:04:24house it's being in mesa going to that
6:04:27to that it's just it's ridiculous to
6:04:28drive when it's less than 10 minutes to
6:04:30walk and gas prices here are almost five
6:04:33very motivational speaker in scottsdale
6:04:36and we spent the day there and when we
6:04:37were done
6:04:38um
6:04:39we drove
6:04:40to his house but deanna was there
6:04:42waiting for him for some reason to visit
6:04:44or something and he was so scared that
6:04:46she would see him
6:04:48in my car that i practically had to keep
6:04:50the car rolling and kick him as i drove
6:04:52by
6:04:53in his house so he's like don't even put
6:04:55him apart just roll up real quick and he
6:04:56jumped out to the door and he's like no
6:04:57go go go so i was like okay and i just
6:05:00kind of laughed at that that was august
6:05:0218th
6:05:03um
6:05:04so i see the type of relationship i mean
6:05:06it's
6:05:07exactly what i thought it was well
6:05:09his being with deanna was and i don't
6:05:11think that he had anything physical
6:05:12going on through i don't know i don't
6:05:14think so um i know that for a time there
6:05:17was and then she's pretty um strong in
6:05:20that category i think as far as her
6:05:22values and standards go
6:05:24um
6:05:26so why this trick this time i know you
6:05:28said he couldn't
6:05:30he canceled on you even coming up here
6:05:32in the first part of june right
6:05:34why did you end up going there then
6:05:38is it because he couldn't go and you
6:05:40guys still wanted to see each other
6:05:46well when his um
6:05:48trip the second time got postponed
6:05:51um
6:05:53it was probably
6:05:55last week of may that i
6:05:57that you know it was kind of obvious
6:05:59that he wasn't going to come then but he
6:06:00said listen after cancun
6:06:03um i have like i have like two weeks
6:06:06that i have nothing going on before i go
6:06:08to dc
6:06:09and he's like i think that's the best
6:06:11time he's like i'm gonna see if it works
6:06:12out for my friends up north which would
6:06:14have been chad perkins his friend and
6:06:16have his wife
6:06:18and we can do it all then and i said
6:06:21all right but at that time i was like
6:06:22whatever
6:06:24we'll see i might just not see until i
6:06:26go back to utah everyone convenes it and
6:06:28you there i'm sure everyone's going to
6:06:30do at the end of the month
6:06:32you know you were coming the first part
6:06:34i wasn't even
6:06:36like i had
6:06:38been talking with ryan at this point
6:06:40and
6:06:41obviously there's a distance there and
6:06:43that was difficult and he really wanted
6:06:44to spend time with me and i really
6:06:46wanted to spend time with him and it
6:06:47just seemed like
6:06:49he had made a few comments i should when
6:06:50am i going to come out there and you
6:06:51know i was like as soon as you want you
6:06:53know but i didn't think he was serious
6:06:56and uh was this ryan you're talking ryan
6:06:58burns
6:06:58um so finally
6:07:02things began to work out at casa ramos
6:07:04with my schedule
6:07:05which is the mexican restaurant and they
6:07:07have a three-day weekend there
6:07:09so
6:07:10i thought i'll make this
6:07:12take this opportunity and go see ryan
6:07:15and that was
6:07:17my attention
6:07:19right what happened when you left why
6:07:21did you go the other way
6:07:30that's my question is why why go to see
6:07:34travis if you're going to see
6:07:36ryan
6:07:37as well
6:07:41and did travis know you were coming
6:07:45you know
6:07:47i saw you kind of shake your head a
6:07:49little bit at all
6:07:51this is hard
6:07:52it's okay
6:07:55did he know you were coming
6:08:00did you guys talk on the phone
6:08:07what was the discussion about
6:08:12gordon he cleaned us things the last
6:08:14conversation yet the last long one we
6:08:16talked a little bit prior to did you
6:08:18guys talk when you were when you were in
6:08:20route to phoenix
6:08:24yeah
6:08:26just briefly
6:08:27told him my phone was dying which was
6:08:29true
6:08:30um i thought i left my charger in
6:08:32monterey with matt
6:08:34um
6:08:35i really honestly thought that i left my
6:08:37charger there and i had been talking all
6:08:38day between
6:08:40just on the phone um
6:08:45i take lots of pictures of myself
6:08:47and i know i noticed
6:08:51um
6:08:52because i'm kind of picky about it and i
6:08:54guess i take them and like delete delete
6:08:56delete it will take like 20 i'll be like
6:08:58delete delete delete keep one yeah i
6:09:00keep two or three or one or none
6:09:02depending and uh
6:09:04so i talked a little bit with john dixon
6:09:07who i was
6:09:08maybe going to go to san diego
6:09:10um there's another place on the list
6:09:12there too that was in the same trail
6:09:14yeah it's a little ambitious but i
6:09:16thought gosh that's like 25 2800 miles
6:09:19it doesn't bother me except i think i
6:09:21put like 24 miles in the car
6:09:24yeah 45 minutes somewhere
6:09:28yeah why are you flying out of
6:09:31oregon medford
6:09:33yeah that's like
6:09:34just about an hour
6:09:36anyway it's pretty dry um so
6:09:39it was a little ambitious but i like
6:09:40road trips and sometimes i have a
6:09:42realistic view of things unrealistic
6:09:44about how
6:09:45about my time and i tend to show up a
6:09:47little later than
6:09:49expected
6:09:50which is not unusual for me but
6:09:56so he knew you were coming
6:09:58he was expecting you
6:10:06now obviously you guys have you know a
6:10:08little encounter and
6:10:12is that when those pictures were taken
6:10:21did he even show you those pictures
6:10:34gonna be hard jody
6:10:43i feel really powerless in here
6:10:49do you know what my family is doing
6:10:50today
6:10:54do you know if they're good
6:10:57i haven't talked to them
6:11:00today know they're worried about you
6:11:06everybody's just kind of in limbo right
6:11:08now
6:11:22so obviously there was nobody else in
6:11:24the house when you got there
6:11:27his roommates were gone
6:11:30well it was napoleon but
6:11:32he's a person too
6:11:35yeah i got to meet napoleon oh he's so
6:11:38awesome
6:11:40nobody else was there
6:11:42i think his roommates were there you
6:11:44think his roommates were there
6:11:47were there cars there
6:11:51you would have had to sing their cars
6:11:54you parked in the driveway right
6:11:56yeah one roommate park sitting in the
6:11:59garage and the other one parks outside
6:12:01well i know zach would park on the
6:12:03street a lot when i lived there before
6:12:05and he pulled his car into the garage
6:12:07whenever he would work on it what makes
6:12:09you think his roommates were
6:12:10there i asked him
6:12:13what are you saying
6:12:16who's home he said they were there
6:12:19but i don't know who
6:12:21um the reason i asked because it's kind
6:12:23of an indication of how quiet we have to
6:12:25be
6:12:28what time was that
6:12:32do you remember what time you rolled in
6:12:36[Music]
6:12:49wednesday morning
6:12:52i think
6:12:54that that makes sense
6:13:02you're pretty sneaky up there and your
6:13:04roommates doesn't even know you're there
6:13:06i do that many many many nights how did
6:13:08they not see your car
6:13:10um
6:13:17i don't know i was parked oh you know
6:13:19what zach
6:13:21was house sitting for his girlfriend
6:13:24his girlfriend was on a trip with uh he
6:13:27was on a cruise with her parents and he
6:13:28was staying united
6:13:30i think he stayed the night at uh that
6:13:32makes sense because i want to say that
6:13:34his roommate he said his roommate was
6:13:35home but i don't remember but i think he
6:13:37said one room
6:13:40enrique he gets up about
6:13:425 30 subscribers
6:13:44has the room that shares the wall of
6:13:46travis's room
6:13:48which is like yes and you know it's a kb
6:13:50home driver's voices the walls are
6:13:52really really cool yes they skimp on
6:13:54that part
6:13:57yeah so enrique was home so you and
6:13:59about two or three in the morning
6:14:02but he gets up about six
6:14:04and
6:14:05no he leaves the house about six in the
6:14:07morning
6:14:10and he didn't notice anything different
6:14:17do you guys spend the whole day together
6:14:18then that following day did you guys go
6:14:21anywhere
6:14:22stayed in the house
6:14:24slept
6:14:25well after a long trip i'd sleep too
6:14:29i'm trying to stay up for my waiting
6:14:32he was watching something on youtube
6:14:35some stupid video he's like you gotta
6:14:38see this and i'm watching and i'm like
6:14:39this is so boring
6:14:42he's like what what's the point of that
6:14:44he's like just stupid
6:14:46pointless stuff
6:14:47i'm like okay like you know i guess
6:14:50everyone's gonna have their time to
6:14:51binge out being so driven and
6:14:53deep as he is for chasing somebody it's
6:14:55just funny that he watches stuff like
6:14:57that
6:14:59it wasn't anything profane or bad or
6:15:01vulgar it's just
6:15:03like people
6:15:04like dancing but they had like boxes of
6:15:07foil on their head and it was like
6:15:09weird
6:15:10like robotic kind of music
6:15:15the pictures that i showed you of you
6:15:17laying on a bed and stuff
6:15:18is that when those were taken that day
6:15:23okay we also made a video we deleted it
6:15:32videos or videos are hard to get once
6:15:34they're erased
6:15:35take up so much room
6:15:36and
6:15:39whereas pictures are a little different
6:15:47um what happened after that what what
6:15:49went wrong i know that
6:15:52the last photos of him were taken about
6:15:545 20 5 30.
6:16:01and you said he doesn't like uh he
6:16:03doesn't like you to take pictures of him
6:16:04and stuff
6:16:06he was very private about the shower
6:16:07like we
6:16:08is that why you were taking pictures of
6:16:09him in the shower no
6:16:11no trying to get back to him no um
6:16:20it's not surprising i'm surprised he
6:16:21allowed you to take pictures of him and
6:16:23shower
6:16:24the first few looked like he
6:16:27wasn't too comfortable but
6:16:30obviously whatever you were saying to
6:16:31him made him a little more comfortable
6:16:38you remember that
6:16:44what went wrong
6:16:49did he say something to you
6:16:54were you angry about something
6:16:58are you frustrated
6:17:01what was it
6:17:21something happened at that point
6:17:24and i don't know what it was
6:17:29what are they gonna do with the rental
6:17:30car they're gonna bring it here
6:17:38um there were several photos of him
6:17:41and the last one that we have is him
6:17:43sitting in the shower
6:17:48and that's when i think it happened
6:17:53he was sitting down
6:17:55looking up at you
6:18:02what did you do
6:18:14what happened jody
6:18:21you've gone this far
6:18:29did you plan on doing that the whole
6:18:30time
6:18:39then why
6:18:42tell me
6:18:49i don't believe you planned it
6:18:53but then i don't understand why why
6:18:56why you took a gun with you
6:18:58oh i didn't
6:18:59where does that come from then
6:19:04where did you get it
6:19:07everybody says he didn't have one
6:19:19where did you get it
6:19:21if you didn't take it
6:19:26did he have one in the house
6:19:29you went to my knowledge
6:19:33then where did you get it
6:19:42did you bring it with you
6:19:49did you get it there in arizona i didn't
6:19:52ever have it actually
6:19:54and like have it in my possession
6:19:58then who had it
6:20:09if you had it and travis didn't have it
6:20:11then who had it
6:20:22jody
6:20:24please i can't
6:20:26why not
6:20:30are you protecting somebody else
6:20:39why would somebody else do this
6:20:47i don't know did someone catch you there
6:20:54someone not expecting you to be there
6:21:02do you want to see my
6:21:07then who was it
6:21:31okay
6:21:32what do you remember
6:21:35from the time you were taking the
6:21:36pictures
6:21:38to the time you left
6:21:40what happened
6:21:51what happened after the last picture was
6:21:52taken
6:22:06you have to tell me
6:22:23if you want me to believe that somebody
6:22:25else was there
6:22:27you have to show me
6:22:30you have to explain to me what happened
6:22:32otherwise
6:22:34it was just you
6:22:38and if that's the case that's
6:22:40okay that's okay as well
6:22:44it's better if
6:22:46everyone thinks that
6:22:51if everyone thinks that it was just you
6:22:54no it's not it is really no idea i do
6:22:58have no i do
6:23:07you're going through your own things
6:23:09right now
6:23:12if somebody else was there with you
6:23:17we need to know that
6:23:22why would somebody do that just because
6:23:24you're there with travis
6:23:30he didn't say hey
6:23:42what was the first thing they did to him
6:23:47you were there
6:23:49you saw it
6:23:52what was the first time i actually
6:23:53didn't see it i heard it
6:23:56first was there an argument
6:24:01no
6:24:02um not between traps not
6:24:06any argument between anybody
6:24:17is there any way i can see those
6:24:18pictures
6:24:21it just no not right now can i see them
6:24:23soon i will
6:24:25you know
6:24:28you need to start letting me know what
6:24:30happened you're telling me that some
6:24:31other people were there
6:24:32you know how much that concerns me
6:24:43i don't know who they were
6:24:45but
6:24:46they know where i live
6:24:50or they know where my parents are in
6:24:51order i don't know if they know where my
6:24:52grandparents are but they got my address
6:24:55and they know where my family is
6:25:00sorry
6:25:02so you're trying to say you're doing
6:25:04this to protect your family
6:25:12why would someone do this to you and to
6:25:14him
6:25:16i don't think they really intended to do
6:25:18anything to me
6:25:21you're saying somebody followed you all
6:25:22the way to arizona from here
6:25:25no i don't think i think i was an
6:25:28element of surprise for them
6:25:30you were an element of surprise so they
6:25:33didn't expect i'm guessing
6:25:34i don't think so they didn't expect you
6:25:37to be there i mean they had to see my
6:25:39car
6:25:42is it someone who lives in mesa local
6:25:44i didn't recognize me
6:25:48well you have to give me a motive why
6:25:50would they do this
6:25:53were they going after travis
6:25:58for what reason
6:26:03you tell me this but you give me no
6:26:04reason he didn't discuss much he just
6:26:07argued about what about whether or not
6:26:09to kill me
6:26:11for what reason because i'm a witness
6:26:14a witness of what him
6:26:17i'm trapped of travis's murder yeah but
6:26:20i didn't really witness it it's see much
6:26:22because
6:26:24okay
6:26:25or just um
6:26:27oh you need to make this believable
6:26:29because it is not believable to me right
6:26:31now
6:26:33you need to give me something
6:26:37okay
6:26:38i just listen
6:26:40i am listening jody i am listening and
6:26:43it doesn't make any sense to me
6:26:45it's fine because my family will uh well
6:26:48help us protect your family
6:26:52if that's the case
6:26:56it got the
6:26:58my driver's license it has a po box on
6:27:01it
6:27:04so they
6:27:05got my registration out of my purse
6:27:08which was in the purse that i was using
6:27:09at the time
6:27:11and it has my parents address on it
6:27:15why would they do this
6:27:18you see where i'm coming from
6:27:21why
6:27:22what kind of
6:27:24beef did they have with him
6:27:28or was it with you or
6:27:31is there you need to make this
6:27:33believable
6:27:35people just don't go in somewhere and
6:27:37kill somebody for no reason and then let
6:27:39a witness go
6:27:41that doesn't happen
6:27:43they've already killed one person why
6:27:44not just take care of the other
6:27:47well yeah you know who they are if
6:27:50you're telling me the truth
6:27:51i
6:27:52don't know them
6:27:55i don't believe you either
6:27:57and i can't you can't expect me to
6:28:09um
6:28:10i wasn't planning on going to travis's
6:28:12house i was gonna go to santa cruz well
6:28:14i wasn't planning to go to santa cruz
6:28:15you know monterey but by the time i
6:28:17called matt he's like we're in santa
6:28:18cruz meet us here and i said okay so
6:28:20coming to the
6:28:21red room there just we'll kind of hang
6:28:24out for the locals
6:28:26younger kids our age sort of 20
6:28:28somethings and 30 somethings and
6:28:31i stayed the night in monterey that
6:28:32night
6:28:33got up the next morning and visited with
6:28:35daryl and his son before he went to
6:28:36school
6:28:40um
6:28:41drove this is tuesday
6:28:43the
6:28:45third um
6:28:48and
6:28:51driving to l.a i hadn't heard back from
6:28:52laura yet but that's what
6:28:54it was
6:28:56it wasn't until i got to l.a where i
6:28:57thought
6:28:58i was looking at my map
6:29:00in utah wasn't really on there but i
6:29:03mean
6:29:03arizona but because it was to utah the
6:29:05mapquest directions i printed
6:29:09okay
6:29:10i just
6:29:13i just see like i've seen the sopranos
6:29:15and they're not mafia or anything but
6:29:19you know i just i honestly there's part
6:29:22of me inside that thinks they're never
6:29:23gonna come after my family
6:29:25from what you're telling me and from
6:29:28what i know about travis and all his
6:29:30dealings
6:29:31there's no reason anybody would go after
6:29:33him
6:29:35nothing so what you're telling me about
6:29:37two people coming in or however many
6:29:39people coming in and taking care of him
6:29:41and letting you go just just so far
6:29:42fetch i can't believe it
6:29:46why would they do this to them what were
6:29:47they arguing about what did they say
6:29:50their details
6:29:53they didn't say a lot they were white
6:29:55americans from what i could tell they
6:29:57had um
6:29:59um
6:30:01what do you call those things they're
6:30:03like beanies but they cover your whole
6:30:05face
6:30:07and you've got like holes for your nose
6:30:08and your
6:30:10mouth
6:30:11and your eyes
6:30:14and they were
6:30:15one was black i think they were both
6:30:16black or maybe dark blue or something
6:30:20anyway um it wasn't until i was in la
6:30:23and laura wasn't getting back to me and
6:30:24it was already like nine something but i
6:30:26was like maybe i will just go see travis
6:30:28briefly and i called ryan and said
6:30:31my phone was about to die
6:30:33and
6:30:37i tried getting hold of matt i got his
6:30:39voicemail i was gonna ask if my charger
6:30:40was there and if he could save it or
6:30:42mail it or something
6:30:44um
6:30:48so i just
6:30:52i had a a wall charger i think and i was
6:30:55just gonna charge it later i guess
6:30:58when i got somewhere anyway um i did
6:31:01call travison
6:31:03and i said guess what he said well i
6:31:04said i'm coming arizona tonight
6:31:07and there was silence and he goes really
6:31:10and i said yeah well what made you
6:31:12change your mind
6:31:13and i just said
6:31:15um i just
6:31:18cuz i think i just told him i missed him
6:31:20or something
6:31:22but i i would have said because you're
6:31:23too compelling but like he's too
6:31:26he's already gotten big enough
6:31:30so i showed up and he was watching
6:31:32youtube
6:31:33on his computer on his laptop in the
6:31:35office
6:31:36um
6:31:40he
6:31:41we watched that for a little while and
6:31:44he was very happy to see me
6:31:46naturally but he always barks when
6:31:47somebody walks in and then he colleen
6:31:49was really happy to see me he gets so
6:31:51excited
6:31:53and i just do this thing to his butt
6:31:54where you just kind of push him on the
6:31:56side and he goes around and circles over
6:31:58and over and over until he realizes hey
6:31:59stop giving me a
6:32:00circle so it was some good reunion
6:32:05and
6:32:11anyone i mean i told him i was tired i
6:32:13think because i don't know what he was
6:32:15what his intentions were or what he
6:32:17thought my intentions were at the time
6:32:18like we weren't going to do anything but
6:32:20i was very exhausted from the trip and i
6:32:22just said
6:32:23i think i'm just going to sleep for a
6:32:24little while and he said that's fine so
6:32:26i had slept pretty well the day before
6:32:28but i was tired from driving all night
6:32:30so i slept and he slept and we used to
6:32:32sleep till about one
6:32:40afternoon yeah
6:32:42must have been around then
6:32:45his roommate was home when i got there
6:32:47i didn't ever see his roommate though so
6:32:49i think i was asleep by the time he got
6:32:51up and left
6:32:58okay if if you don't believe me that's
6:33:01okay i'm trying to i'm just saying that
6:33:04you know it sounds to me like um
6:33:07like i'm already in the system
6:33:09pretty far in i'm not getting out
6:33:11anytime soon
6:33:12and as long as the rat falls on me i
6:33:15think that it's not good
6:33:17don't do this no i'm just saying i think
6:33:19that um as long as that is there's
6:33:21there's less of a chance that
6:33:24my little brother
6:33:26is gonna be hurt or my mom or my dad or
6:33:29my sister
6:33:30that lived there okay we'll continue
6:33:32with the story
6:33:34anyway about one o'clock
6:33:36yeah we um have sex
6:33:39a couple of times once was
6:33:41in his bed and once was again downstairs
6:33:42in his office
6:33:46and
6:33:52he i don't know who he was looking at
6:33:56some pictures that i brought for him
6:34:01um but he has a virus on his computer so
6:34:05you click the start menu on windows xp
6:34:07or newer with 2000 or whatever you have
6:34:09like my music my pictures my computer
6:34:11yeah you can usually click on my
6:34:12computer and then go to the disk drive
6:34:14and open that he like you click the
6:34:17windows and it would come up and none of
6:34:18those my this music computer's picture
6:34:20no
6:34:22so he had some kind of virus that he was
6:34:24dealing with
6:34:25his screensaver was a bunch of little
6:34:26bugs eating up his screen it was just
6:34:28weird
6:34:30and he said that was from the virus too
6:34:32i thought i was like that's a cute
6:34:33screensaver's like yeah it's my stupid
6:34:35virus
6:34:36so um
6:34:38for some reason that was frustrating for
6:34:40both of us because we couldn't look at
6:34:41the pictures and they were from our a
6:34:43lot of our church history trips which
6:34:45are on my other external drive which
6:34:49why i haven't been able to access for a
6:34:50long since after christmas because i
6:34:52just quit
6:34:54and i just haven't had the money to
6:34:55spend to get all that stuff back um so
6:34:57you guys worked with that for a while
6:35:00yeah we had three discs i
6:35:02think um yeah three
6:35:05and
6:35:06so what time is this now you guys are
6:35:09messing with the computer
6:35:10um i don't really remember it was after
6:35:12every if after we
6:35:15done a couple hours an hour or so later
6:35:18yeah maybe
6:35:19afternoon i just you know he had been
6:35:22cleaning his house
6:35:24um
6:35:29so i couldn't i wasn't sitting on the
6:35:30couch usually i'd just chill on a couch
6:35:32downstairs
6:35:34you know if no one was home
6:35:36um
6:35:37but he had like chairs and all that
6:35:38stuff all over the couch
6:35:40he was cleaning the floors or something
6:35:42uh
6:35:44napoleon i don't know if he made phone
6:35:46calls or not or what he was doing on the
6:35:48internet but at one point he was gonna
6:35:50go up and take a shower and it took a
6:35:51lot of convincing prior when he was
6:35:54shaving
6:35:55i was like i got some ideas and they
6:35:56didn't turn out good at all not like i
6:35:58wanted to
6:35:59um but i thought that i could get some
6:36:01cool pictures of him shaving
6:36:03because he does the whole old-fashioned
6:36:05thing with like this little i don't know
6:36:07how it works um
6:36:10he liked it though apparently because he
6:36:11used it for his profile picture on
6:36:12myspace
6:36:14um
6:36:16so
6:36:17those didn't drown is good i was gonna
6:36:18do that again later but i said i asked
6:36:20him i could do pictures in the shower
6:36:22and he's like
6:36:23no
6:36:25i was like i just have an idea i have a
6:36:27couple ideas and he's like what do you
6:36:29mean and i was like
6:36:31i said i have this i i saw this thing in
6:36:33a calvin klein ad once that looked
6:36:34really good
6:36:35and so he was you're right he wasn't
6:36:38very comfortable at first he goes he's
6:36:40standing there and he's all i feel gay
6:36:45he has that look on his face though
6:36:49so somewhat deleted and
6:36:51i kept taking
6:36:52um
6:36:54and
6:36:55some he looked really good i thought the
6:36:57one that you showed me yesterday of him
6:36:59looking right at you i think that's a
6:37:01great picture
6:37:03i don't know what he hates about that i
6:37:05think it's a very good picture
6:37:07so you were taking pictures and showing
6:37:09them them
6:37:11yeah yeah
6:37:13he's all let me see you know his shower
6:37:15door was open and his water pressure in
6:37:17that shower isn't that great so
6:37:19it's not like water was going everywhere
6:37:23what um when the last picture was taken
6:37:30he was kneeling down in the shower
6:37:35i don't remember him
6:37:37if you like if this is his shower and
6:37:39the sink is over here
6:37:41i was like right here taking pictures
6:37:45and i don't really know
6:37:46what happened after that
6:37:49exactly
6:37:50except i think he was shot
6:37:53where were you
6:37:56um if this is his shower i'm just
6:37:58sitting here i was like well
6:38:01if this is his shower and he's sitting
6:38:02here i was like right
6:38:04here on my knees and his bathtub is
6:38:06right here and i was taking him here and
6:38:08i was just going through the pictures
6:38:10and i heard this loud ring
6:38:18and i don't really remember except
6:38:21travis was screaming
6:38:24i think i got knocked out but i don't
6:38:26think it was that long
6:38:28um i know i got knocked in the head and
6:38:30i've gotten knocked in the head once by
6:38:32my dad when he was just really mad and
6:38:34it wasn't like actually it wasn't he
6:38:35didn't knock me in the head he just
6:38:36pushed me against the wall and i hit my
6:38:38head and i felt
6:38:39but he in this case i think it was
6:38:41similar because he uh
6:38:44was screaming and i was
6:38:46by the bathtub
6:38:49and he was holding his
6:38:50head
6:38:52and there were two people there and
6:39:00what'd you say um
6:39:06i remember
6:39:08putting my hand on his back because he
6:39:11was on all four of his knees
6:39:14he was like on his knees like this doing
6:39:17something like this or something like i
6:39:19don't know
6:39:20and i was like
6:39:21was like are you okay what's going on
6:39:23what's going on he's like go get help go
6:39:25get help and i said okay
6:39:28and
6:39:30i turned around there were
6:39:33two people there one was a goddamn one
6:39:35was a girl
6:39:37i could i couldn't tell that at first
6:39:39but you just see one was a girl and i
6:39:41assume the other one's a guy because
6:39:43they're billed and then their voices
6:39:46um
6:39:51i remember what they were wearing like
6:39:52maybe jeans
6:39:56um what did they say one was in all
6:39:59black one was in jeans
6:40:02did you say anything
6:40:06yeah the girl wanted to kill me too
6:40:09what did she say
6:40:12what what words did you hear
6:40:16or phrases
6:40:18um who is that
6:40:20who is that i thought he was by himself
6:40:24or alone or something and
6:40:27and
6:40:29he was like shut up just finish it and
6:40:33and
6:40:34travis was screaming the whole time
6:40:37he wasn't screaming like a girl he was
6:40:39just like
6:40:40like he was in pain like he was like
6:40:42shocked like oh
6:40:44you know
6:40:46he wasn't really moving now he was just
6:40:48standing staying kind of still on the
6:40:50floor
6:40:53then what happened
6:40:55well as soon as he said go get help and
6:40:57i turned around and i s they were there
6:40:59and
6:41:00where were they
6:41:02they were in the bathroom
6:41:06the girl was in the hallway
6:41:08kind of
6:41:11um
6:41:12and the guy was more toward in the
6:41:13bedroom but like still in the bathroom
6:41:15like on another tile carpet area right
6:41:17there it starts
6:41:19okay
6:41:24and
6:41:28he started coming in toward the bathroom
6:41:30too and it
6:41:39what happened
6:41:47what happened jody
6:41:50what did you see
6:41:54i took it out like a little bit
6:41:59you took off
6:42:05i ran
6:42:07and he stopped me
6:42:10can i stop dude
6:42:14he wasn't
6:42:16um
6:42:18he was still like conscious and still
6:42:21alive and
6:42:22she just left them there
6:42:24no i ran into the closet because like
6:42:26there's two doors and they were sort of
6:42:28in the hallway already
6:42:30and he stopped me
6:42:32he didn't touch me he was just held the
6:42:34gun to my head and he was like you don't
6:42:36go anywhere
6:42:38and
6:42:39he told
6:42:40all the other girls finish it i didn't
6:42:42see
6:42:43um
6:42:44but
6:42:46he was like
6:42:51i think he was saying a lot
6:42:53um but
6:43:03what happened
6:43:05he told me to stay there and not to move
6:43:08was that in the closet
6:43:10no it was um
6:43:27hallway down to this bathroom
6:43:29the sink
6:43:31and then you have
6:43:33the closet here
6:43:35and then you have the shower
6:43:38and then the bathtub
6:43:52his bedroom is actually
6:44:03so
6:44:04i ran this way
6:44:06because they were he was walking this
6:44:08way and she was already right here
6:44:10um
6:44:11and then he stopped me here and he said
6:44:14don't move
6:44:17and uh
6:44:20travis was here
6:44:22or somewhere around the box and
6:44:24he left the room for a minute
6:44:27and i didn't have my stupid phone
6:44:30because it wasn't charged
6:44:33and travis's phone was downstairs and i
6:44:35didn't know
6:44:36his roommates i didn't think were home
6:44:38at that time
6:44:40so like i was just trying to think if
6:44:42there's any way i could call
6:44:449-1-1 or call or
6:44:47get out of the house there's no way out
6:44:49except down the stairs
6:44:51his windows are
6:44:52they're two stories for one and they're
6:44:53just they were hard to get to we had
6:44:55stuff here and stuff here and blinds and
6:44:58screens and window coverings and i mean
6:45:01from the outside
6:45:03i just
6:45:04um she was over him and i just rushed
6:45:08her and i pushed her
6:45:10and
6:45:12there was
6:45:16guess what
6:45:18travis was bleeding everywhere
6:45:20um
6:45:23what was she doing to him
6:45:27because he had been shot at this
6:45:28timeline yeah he was still alive
6:45:32he was still conscious even
6:45:34like you're still talking oh he wasn't
6:45:37talking or saying much but i could tell
6:45:39he was breathing he seemed like he was
6:45:40really calmly i think he wasn't like he
6:45:43was just there i really remember it's
6:45:46such aware okay and so you you did what
6:45:49now
6:45:50you pushed her
6:45:53she
6:45:54she's bigger a little bit bigger than me
6:45:56not really in size but height
6:46:00um
6:46:06you know what happened
6:46:10oh it didn't really get to her
6:46:13um
6:46:14did she have any weapons on her at all
6:46:16oh yeah what'd she have
6:46:18um she i thought she was the one with
6:46:20the gun but
6:46:22maybe she had the gun but he had a gun
6:46:24so that there were two guns or they or
6:46:26one gun i don't know
6:46:29so she's the one who shot him though
6:46:30right she was the one here he was back
6:46:32here at that time when you saw them
6:46:36i would think so because
6:46:38i mean i do i
6:46:41i don't know i got hit here somewhere
6:46:45i just
6:46:46i don't know
6:46:48because when i was
6:46:50when i woke up he was screaming
6:46:53and i saw her at this point like right
6:46:56here and walking by your back she must
6:46:58have been walking back this way
6:47:00and i saw him sort of following
6:47:03and that's when he's like
6:47:06finished and i started running this way
6:47:08and he stopped me and he left the room
6:47:10for a couple of minutes why did he leave
6:47:12maybe just i don't know
6:47:14i don't know so what happened if what
6:47:17happened after your question um i
6:47:19i got travis and he
6:47:22wasn't like standing up really he wasn't
6:47:25really doing much and i was
6:47:27and he was
6:47:29i was trying to get him
6:47:34and
6:47:35she came back
6:47:37and got him kind of far like right here
6:47:40she came back and uh
6:47:45he was just
6:47:47he was starting to just get weaker and
6:47:49weaker
6:47:53and this guy came back in
6:47:56and she said that um
6:47:59she said they they need to um
6:48:03do me too because um
6:48:07because it was there
6:48:08and it's like
6:48:10no that's not why we're here
6:48:21he had my purse
6:48:25which i had on the dresser here
6:48:27prior
6:48:28summer
6:48:30um and what did they do after this
6:48:33after you guys reach this
6:48:36just tried to stick with the incident so
6:48:38what was going on
6:48:45she came after me
6:48:46and he stopped her
6:48:50okay
6:48:52and she didn't get me
6:48:55how was she gonna get you does she have
6:48:57a weapon she had a knife
6:49:04said she had a gun before
6:49:05i don't know if she had a gun i i think
6:49:09because i am guessing i know that he had
6:49:11a
6:49:12i don't know if she had a gun or not
6:49:18so she was basically the aggressor
6:49:22yeah unless he took a shot too i don't
6:49:25know
6:49:25but it seems like from what you're
6:49:27telling me she was the aggressive one
6:49:28and he was the more passive
6:49:31i mean there was definitely an
6:49:33aggression as far as i mean i don't know
6:49:35what you define aggression about it like
6:49:37i was there was a definitely a stern
6:49:40ness
6:49:41and i wasn't
6:49:45like
6:49:47just free to walk out of there like hey
6:49:49it's cool it's cold you know it wasn't
6:49:50anything like that
6:49:52then what happened
6:49:57um
6:49:58they had an argument back and forth and
6:50:00she wanted to kill me and he didn't
6:50:03um
6:50:05why why didn't they kill you
6:50:09just because he said he said that's not
6:50:11what we're here for
6:50:14did they say why they were there
6:50:17no
6:50:18but it was obvious they were there for
6:50:20him
6:50:21i didn't they didn't say why
6:50:26so it seemed like they knew him
6:50:28obviously
6:50:29yeah but he didn't seem to know them i
6:50:32mean he was a little out of it plus they
6:50:34had masks on anyway but he didn't
6:50:38express any kind of recognition
6:50:40i could talk
6:50:43he was able to say go get help
6:50:46and at one point he said go to my
6:50:48neighbor's house
6:50:51go to my neighbor's house
6:50:56was just like
6:50:57there was just no way did you see them
6:50:59hurt him anymore
6:51:02um
6:51:04other than a gunshot
6:51:09um she had a knife and i didn't
6:51:12i don't know
6:51:15he was bleeding everywhere
6:51:21it was like
6:51:23when she rushed me afterward or she came
6:51:26back i rushed her but she kind of came
6:51:28back at me
6:51:30um why didn't she travis and i were
6:51:33right about
6:51:34here maybe i don't know halfway i don't
6:51:36know
6:51:38um
6:51:43and there was a little bit of a struggle
6:51:45with her and i
6:51:47um i was so scared i'm not a person who
6:51:50fights um
6:51:54i'm not
6:51:56a person who knows really about self
6:51:59defense i took some classes once but it
6:52:01was like eight years ago and i've never
6:52:03been consistent with it okay
6:52:07um so i wasn't sure i just knew i had to
6:52:09hold on to her hands because she had a
6:52:12knife
6:52:13what hand did she have she
6:52:16she had it in this hand but a little
6:52:18her right i guess
6:52:27what
6:52:32happened so you didn't see her hurt him
6:52:35anymore he was just bleeding
6:52:38where did he end up he um
6:52:41i when i tried getting him here he said
6:52:44go get help and when i tried i came back
6:52:46this way pushed her
6:52:49and he said go go to my neighbors go to
6:52:51my neighbors and i wasn't like no but i
6:52:53wasn't gonna leave
6:52:55if i couldn't leave without him was
6:52:56trying
6:52:58um i felt stupid already for trying to
6:53:00run this way i was gonna go to a phone
6:53:04and he was like
6:53:06i just said come on come on
6:53:08you know he was naked but i didn't care
6:53:10just come on and he's like i can't i
6:53:13said come on he's like i can't feel my
6:53:14legs
6:53:24and they wouldn't
6:53:25let me be by him were you were you
6:53:28clothed at that time or
6:53:30where you also knew yeah it was clean
6:53:33those are the pants that i showed you
6:53:34the other day on that camera
6:53:37i don't think i have pants like that
6:53:40i don't know um i've got a lot of
6:53:42clothes i'm trying to remember the
6:53:43clothes that i took to that trip
6:53:46um
6:53:48oh i do have another pair of striped
6:53:49pants and they're they're gray though
6:53:51with a black string
6:53:53i don't think they were that
6:53:55i don't know okay
6:53:57so what happened after that
6:53:58um
6:54:02they had a conversation
6:54:04about killing you two and you
6:54:07and then they decided not to
6:54:09she really really really wanted to
6:54:12um
6:54:14from there they
6:54:16were
6:54:18i was here like his armoire or whatever
6:54:20it's called with his tv was here and i
6:54:22was right about here and i had to stay
6:54:24here
6:54:26and i was calling his name and they were
6:54:28like shut the hell up
6:54:31um
6:54:32and i was just
6:54:34i don't know if i was crying it was all
6:54:36just like i
6:54:37was so
6:54:39weird um
6:54:44he was going through um
6:54:49my purse
6:54:51and he pulled out my wallet and he just
6:54:53took some cash
6:54:56um i had though my cash stashed in the
6:55:00jeans i had worn like a good chunk of it
6:55:02like 80 bucks stashed in
6:55:04420s in the back of my jeans pockets
6:55:06which were in my backpack
6:55:09um
6:55:10but i had some cash in here not all of
6:55:12it though
6:55:13so he took that and
6:55:17um
6:55:23and what happened
6:55:30what was she doing
6:55:37she was like right here
6:55:39that time
6:55:40doing what
6:55:43um he's over here taking stuff from your
6:55:44wallet
6:55:46your purse you're here she's down the
6:55:47hall
6:55:49she wasn't far it's not a far distance
6:55:51i'm there was part of me i think that
6:55:53was just i was sitting
6:55:55and i was just like
6:55:57i didn't know what to say like would you
6:55:59beg for your life do you
6:56:01do you say who are you guys i'm
6:56:03powerless because i don't have
6:56:05any way to
6:56:07stop them they they were just more
6:56:09powerful
6:56:11once you took stuff from there what did
6:56:13you do
6:56:16she was i don't know what she was doing
6:56:18but she was arguing with him and talking
6:56:20with him and saying
6:56:21what would they say she's like
6:56:24it wasn't like super yelling it was kind
6:56:26of like hushed but intense like you need
6:56:29to do that shut up it's not over here
6:56:32things like that
6:56:34and
6:56:39and uh
6:56:42he grabbed my wallet
6:56:44and
6:56:46he was looking through it
6:56:48he just did the cash put it in his
6:56:50pocket he um
6:56:53he got my registration out from my
6:56:55wallet
6:56:57and he said
6:57:04what do you say
6:57:14he said you must be that [ __ ] from
6:57:16california
6:57:20and he was gone like this
6:57:22with my um frustration
6:57:24and he said
6:57:29he said
6:57:33if you ever
6:57:35ever
6:57:36ever
6:57:39say anything about this
6:57:54okay so they'll do to my family
6:57:58same way and me
6:57:59and i didn't care so much about me at
6:58:01that point
6:58:03he said
6:58:05you need to leave
6:58:07and don't you call anybody
6:58:09you know you say anything
6:58:11you know you act like anything happened
6:58:15he's only giving you one chance
6:58:20and she said she's gonna rat us off
6:58:22she's gonna say something and he's like
6:58:24shut up
6:58:25he's like you get one chance
6:58:34is that when you're left
6:58:36it's been leave now
6:58:38and part of me
6:58:40didn't want to leave
6:58:43travis wasn't
6:58:45was still alive
6:58:46he was still
6:58:48i could he wasn't moving a lot but he
6:58:50was still alive i could see that he was
6:58:52still
6:58:55did you leave at that point
6:58:57um i left the room
6:58:59and where did you go
6:59:01i
6:59:02went downstairs
6:59:04but i didn't have all my clothes
6:59:11what did you leave there
6:59:13well travis said i had some stuff there
6:59:16i didn't see what it was he said it was
6:59:17in his closet
6:59:18he so they were closed in line
6:59:25but
6:59:26all i had was my purse and my backpack
6:59:30i left those
6:59:32and
6:59:35and i went outside
6:59:45and then what you do
6:59:50i wanted to get help i was
6:59:55i just wanted to get help
6:59:59he told me that if i didn't say anything
7:00:01then i would be
7:00:04that i would
7:00:05that i wouldn't even live to regret it
7:00:07but that i would regret it
7:00:12no idea why they did this to him
7:00:16you have to know something about it
7:00:22trying to think what else was said
7:00:25anything that clipped in your mind
7:00:30because why would anybody do this dance
7:00:33he does nothing but help people
7:00:36everybody likes him
7:00:39doesn't help people money
7:00:41no people like that anyway yeah
7:00:44he doesn't get involved in things he's
7:00:46not supposed to get involved in he
7:00:48doesn't do drugs
7:00:52it doesn't seem like a robbery
7:00:56i was wondering if they took my stuff to
7:00:57make it look that way and he told me to
7:00:59leave
7:01:00and
7:01:01you know
7:01:04um travis usually keeps his cash in his
7:01:06wallet
7:01:08so you didn't see what happened to him
7:01:09then
7:01:11i just saw that
7:01:14did you get hurt at all you said you
7:01:16were fighting with her
7:01:17yeah
7:01:18what happened to you
7:01:20um she got me where
7:01:22my hand let me see where
7:01:26[Music]
7:01:37conveniently it was right on the crease
7:01:39right there on the crease
7:01:41can you see
7:01:42well it's kind of a purple or color this
7:01:44one here
7:01:47right on the crease oh there's a vein on
7:01:49this one maybe
7:01:50i don't know
7:01:51what's this one here yeah
7:01:54this little slice there yeah just a
7:01:56small one
7:01:58um was it pretty deep
7:02:00i don't know how deep it was but my
7:02:02finger hurt for a while for a while
7:02:04okay so like right in that crease that
7:02:06you
7:02:07right across both of them
7:02:10uh not my middle finger it cut this one
7:02:12a little but not as much this is where
7:02:13it really went i don't know how it
7:02:15happened that all these other fingers
7:02:17were missed but this one
7:02:18yeah i don't know
7:02:20this one like i still can't close this
7:02:22finger all the way it's as close as it
7:02:24goes whereas this one goes like that
7:02:27also my ctr ring used to fit both
7:02:28fingers and i can't get it on his finger
7:02:30anymore just like up pretty deep then
7:02:32i guess if you feel it squeeze it just
7:02:34feels like bone like there's nothing
7:02:36normal there
7:02:38but again like my cto ring slides right
7:02:40on his finger and i used to slide right
7:02:42in off this finger and i just can't fit
7:02:44a ring on here okay it's a bigger size
7:02:46now
7:02:53i'm pretty sure she scratches me a lot
7:02:55so
7:02:55when you were told to leave you left
7:02:58did you get in the car and drive away
7:03:01i always have my keys my keys are on
7:03:04i'll have a little clip on them and i i
7:03:06do that because i'm very very spacey did
7:03:08you see any of the cars in driveway or
7:03:10on the street um
7:03:14oh no not
7:03:17not that i really today
7:03:18that i i don't think his roommate's
7:03:19around
7:03:21i mean you just left
7:03:24you didn't run to the neighbors you
7:03:26didn't
7:03:26try calling
7:03:28you knew they were in his house
7:03:31you had time to run to a neighbor why
7:03:32didn't you do that
7:03:34i was really scared
7:03:38it was really
7:03:39freaked out of my mind
7:03:44okay don't believe you
7:03:49when i came in here hoping that you
7:03:51would tell me the truth
7:03:53and this is not the truth jody this is
7:03:55all i know this does not make any sense
7:03:59does not make any sense
7:04:03that's all i know
7:04:09nothing changes for me
7:04:14i didn't think it would
7:04:21i feel responsible because i feel
7:04:25that i could have done more
7:04:26i feel like i should have gotten help
7:04:29i feel that i
7:04:33should have been stronger
7:04:35you feel responsible because you did
7:04:37this
7:04:39he did not
7:04:42you did
7:04:45and there's nothing you can say that'll
7:04:46change my mind at this point
7:04:49this is an elaborate story which does
7:04:51not make any sense
7:04:54two of two people come in first two
7:04:56white males and then later you change it
7:04:58to
7:04:59i don't think i ever said one yes you
7:05:01did when at the beginning of the story
7:05:05and then you change it oh no one's a
7:05:06female
7:05:07[Music]
7:05:09i said i wasn't sure at first but you
7:05:10could tell by their guilt
7:05:16it doesn't make any sense to me
7:05:20and there's no reason anybody would go
7:05:22after him there was nothing in his past
7:05:24nothing and
7:05:26at that time that he was going through
7:05:27that would cause somebody to do that to
7:05:29him
7:05:32and the fact that they left you alive
7:05:34let you go
7:05:35that never
7:05:36happens why would anybody do that
7:05:40why would somebody risk the chance of
7:05:42getting caught
7:05:43just letting you run out the front door
7:05:46when they're upstairs of this house
7:05:49killing somebody
7:05:51knowing that you could just run across
7:05:52the street
7:05:54and tell somebody
7:05:55it doesn't make any sense does it make
7:05:57any sense to you
7:06:00it doesn't does it they argued about it
7:06:02it doesn't make sense i thought for sure
7:06:04i was dead
7:06:13i was hoping that you were going to be
7:06:15completely truthful with me today
7:06:19obviously that's not the case
7:06:22i know you were there i know you
7:06:25you've had some
7:06:26situation go on with him that got out of
7:06:29control
7:06:32and the cut that you're showing me there
7:06:33that's pretty
7:06:35it's pretty obvious how that happened
7:06:38i've seen that before
7:06:42that happens when the knife slips
7:06:44through someone's hand because of blood
7:06:46it's slippery
7:06:48and it cuts
7:06:51that's what that is
7:06:55i've done this for a long time
7:06:58and this is the most far-fetched story
7:07:00i've ever heard and it's not going to
7:07:02help you
7:07:04is that how you want to leave this
7:07:07i still want my family to get hurt your
7:07:09family will not get hurt
7:07:12they will not get hurt
7:07:17the way you're hurting your family is by
7:07:18not coming forward and telling you the
7:07:20truth
7:07:22there is a reason why you did this then
7:07:24you just refuse to tell me why
7:07:27maybe because you are cold
7:07:30and calculated
7:07:32and you went there intentionally to do
7:07:34this
7:07:35and you're ashamed of it
7:07:38you're so ashamed that you will come up
7:07:40with a story to try to hide it
7:07:49i was there that day but i didn't take
7:07:50travis's life
7:07:54you haven't convinced me
7:07:56i hope you can convince the jury but i
7:07:59doubt it very seriously
7:08:02because there's no evidence of anybody
7:08:03else
7:08:05nobody
7:08:19and we're still not done looking at all
7:08:21the evidence
7:08:22we still have
7:08:24other things to uh
7:08:26to check in the lab and
7:08:29other
7:08:30blood swabs and other things like that
7:08:33and every time they call me and tell me
7:08:35hey we've checked this
7:08:37points of joey hey we've checked that
7:08:39that one said joey
7:08:41nothing points at anybody else
7:08:44do you want to be truthful with me
7:08:47if not we can just end it now
7:08:50and we'll just leave it the way it is i
7:08:51know it's obvious i was there um no it's
7:08:54obvious that you
7:08:56committed a crime that you hurt
7:08:59no
7:08:59it's not like that it's it's i know that
7:09:03you did this
7:09:04and you refused to tell me why
7:09:08you refused to tell me why
7:09:10there's no reason somebody else would
7:09:12come in and do this to him there's no
7:09:14motive whatsoever we haven't found any
7:09:17what is my motive
7:09:20jealousy anger
7:09:22fear if you're being alone angry at him
7:09:25for not keeping you in his life i don't
7:09:27know that's why i'm trying to figure it
7:09:29out there are so many motives with you
7:09:38too many
7:09:59we know you had a 25 auto
7:10:02you guys reported it stolen
7:10:07covered the ammunition and it matches
7:10:14we recovered a shell casing
7:10:16it matches the ammunition
7:10:24prints your blood
7:10:26your hair
7:10:28and the motive
7:10:30you were there i wasn't jealous of
7:10:33anything i was a little bit obviously he
7:10:35was going to cancun but that wasn't the
7:10:36reason like i could go to cancun it's
7:10:38not cheap to go to my company it's not
7:10:40expensive to go to mexico
7:10:42um
7:10:43you're probably standing above him when
7:10:45he was in the shower
7:10:48and you shot him in the head i was
7:10:49kneeling down beside him looking in
7:10:54and then you had a knife
7:10:57and you stabbed him
7:10:59several times
7:11:02yes you did
7:11:05jodie
7:11:14tell me the truth
7:11:17please
7:11:19or if you want we can stop here does it
7:11:21matter
7:11:23you've given me so much already
7:11:26why stop
7:11:30do you want to
7:11:32do you want to continue
7:11:34do you want to tell me the truth
7:11:53what did you do with the gun
7:11:56i never had in my possession tony
7:11:59you did
7:12:00never you know and i don't have it
7:12:04yeah you don't have it
7:12:07people say that when
7:12:09they know of the gun they've seen the
7:12:11gun
7:12:12they've touched the gun
7:12:13you don't have it
7:12:15i saw the gun
7:12:17yeah
7:12:19did you had it before
7:12:22you've touched it you've used it
7:12:26i know you have
7:12:37i don't think i've ever even fired again
7:12:41i've i've done bows and arrows been on
7:12:43defense and water guns yeah not a real
7:12:46gun
7:12:50and the gun that i got on friday was
7:12:52never easy so you're going to continue
7:12:53to tell me that you didn't do this to
7:12:55him
7:12:56did not kill travis
7:12:58i believe you did
7:13:01i truly believe you did
7:13:03and there's nothing showing that anybody
7:13:06else did this
7:13:07nothing
7:13:11i've been in so many scenes and so many
7:13:13investigations and there's always
7:13:17always some type of evidence left behind
7:13:20no matter how careful somebody is
7:13:25and in this case
7:13:27there was evidence
7:13:30not pointing to anybody else
7:13:33just you
7:13:36and that's what i have to go by and
7:13:37that's what my report's gonna say okay
7:13:40i'm just if i had
7:13:42planned to hurt him in any way i
7:13:45you know i'm not the righteous person
7:13:47but i
7:13:51i don't think i could stab him
7:13:54i think i would have to shoot him
7:13:56continuously until he was
7:13:59dead if that were my intention and again
7:14:02i'd bring up the gloves again but i
7:14:03would have to wear gloves because
7:14:05i mean i'm not too worried about
7:14:06princess they're all over anyway but
7:14:11i would never stab him
7:14:15if if
7:14:17if i had it in me anywhere to kill him
7:14:20the least i could have done was make it
7:14:21humane as possible or quick or something
7:14:24you know
7:14:26i felt like killing his humane so to
7:14:28speak i don't mean it that way
7:14:31i know what you're like
7:14:34he was still alive
7:14:36yes he was he was alive for a while
7:14:40and i knew that he'd been shot first and
7:14:42he was still alive and possibly tried to
7:14:45get away maybe even tried to fight back
7:14:49i think he was in shock i just remember
7:14:52waking up you didn't see him fight back
7:14:54or anything did you
7:14:55he just kind of collapsed there and
7:14:58no he was here
7:15:00by the outside of his shower and then he
7:15:03you pulled him this way you try to get
7:15:05away with him but then he couldn't go
7:15:06any further
7:15:07he said he couldn't move
7:15:10he said he couldn't feel it and that's
7:15:11the last place you saw him you said that
7:15:12he stopped and kind of collapsed right
7:15:14there she was standing there and he was
7:15:16over here and it just doesn't make any
7:15:19sense
7:15:22he was still like
7:15:24able to move his like he was
7:15:27he was all i guess he was all conscious
7:15:29up here sort of still but he wasn't like
7:15:32on his leg or on his knees or on his
7:15:34feet he wasn't walking
7:15:36it's crawling
7:15:41yeah you're trying to think if i want to
7:15:43go in from there he was sort of using
7:15:45his legs but he wasn't standing up yeah
7:15:48if you're going to continue on that
7:15:49route
7:15:57i don't remember what time i left but
7:16:03i gave you an opportunity this was the
7:16:05only opportunity
7:16:08okay and and you just you just
7:16:11yeah you gave me the information that
7:16:13you were there but i knew you were there
7:16:15and then you throw some story in that is
7:16:18not plausible
7:16:21it just doesn't make any sense with the
7:16:22evidence that was there at the house
7:16:25it doesn't make any evidence at all or
7:16:26any sense at all
7:16:28that evidence tells a story
7:16:31and nowhere
7:16:32in that evidence
7:16:34does that story that you told me match
7:16:37it doesn't match
7:16:41is that how you want to leave it
7:16:44you want to stop here and that's how you
7:16:46want to leave it
7:16:48i know that i didn't take travis's life
7:16:51and i know that i know you did okay no
7:16:53you don't believe me i don't believe you
7:16:58as long as i am here
7:17:02someone else is happy
7:17:04that it's not
7:17:06men so you're just gonna let these two
7:17:07people get away with them
7:17:09there's not even any way to identify
7:17:11them
7:17:15one was male one was female they were
7:17:16taller than me not my whole life
7:17:21okay
7:17:25are you ready to go back
7:17:30um yeah i guess i'd still like to say
7:17:32something to his family but
7:17:34i don't think i have anything that could
7:17:36bring him
7:17:37okay
7:17:39maybe i could write them a letter
7:17:41oh
7:17:42you always have that opportunity to do
7:17:44that so would they receive it i don't
7:17:46know
7:17:48i don't know i don't mean would they
7:17:49accept it i mean if i had the if they've
7:17:52made it to them would they get it
7:17:54do you know yeah i don't have the right
7:17:56i don't i'm not going to provide you
7:17:57their address i know they know where
7:17:58you're where you're gonna be and if they
7:18:00want to make contact with you they can
7:18:01do that that's fine i know his
7:18:03grandmother's address
7:18:05if i could mail it but
7:18:08i don't know if that's well let me see
7:18:10if i can get someone to take them out
7:18:12you're absolutely sure you won't leave
7:18:14it like this
7:18:16i don't know what else to say
7:18:29okay the next time i see you will
7:18:30probably be in phoenix
7:18:33is that cool
7:18:37i have a choice
7:18:40well you go in there regardless so it
7:18:42doesn't matter
7:18:43but i was hoping that we could resolve
7:18:45this here
7:18:46and it's obvious by
7:18:48what you're telling me you don't want to
7:18:49resolve this here
7:18:51i just can't
7:18:55well at the beginning you told me that
7:18:56you couldn't tell me because
7:18:59you couldn't tell me who they were
7:19:02because
7:19:04you didn't want your family to get hurt
7:19:08now you're telling me you don't know who
7:19:10they are and therefore it doesn't matter
7:19:12so there's nothing you can tell me i can
7:19:15give you so many inconsistencies that i
7:19:17don't even want to deal with right now
7:19:18okay i just don't want my family to get
7:19:20hurt okay
7:19:22they won't get hurt
7:19:23you're hurting them right now by not
7:19:24telling me the truth
7:19:26that's what you're doing
7:19:28okay
7:20:12you all finished up
7:20:16what's that for now i guess can i take
7:20:18this or no um well let me just see make
7:20:21sure you're not gonna sneak in jail
7:20:22secrets out or something
7:20:44with you
7:20:49did you write anything on it yeah
7:21:15just go ahead and stick it in your if
7:21:16you're in your pocket if it'll stay
7:21:18there
7:21:22put your hands out in front of you
7:21:27don't do the double chains very often
7:21:51[Music]
7:21:58where you are
7:22:14okay
7:22:15are you ready to
7:22:24go rachel yeah

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of Jodi Arias Full Interrogation by Across the Table, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 52,274 words across 9,233 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.