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Jim Newman || Non-Duality | Zoom Meeting July 2026 — Transcript

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0:02So, I'll start off with a little
0:03introduction.
0:11The concepts that we're talking about,
0:14of course, what we're talking about in
0:15the end isn't a concept, but the
0:17concepts
0:19that present
0:21what we're talking about are very
0:23simple.
0:25It's straightforward. It's a bit
0:27unexpected.
0:28It isn't. It isn't what um yeah it's a
0:32bit unexpected.
0:34So this is this is it.
0:38It's all there is.
0:40There is only what is
0:43and what is can appear as anything.
0:47It apparently right now it's a computer
0:50screen and a conversation
0:52but it can appear as a universe faster
0:55than the speed of light. It can appear
0:57as anything.
1:00And as that there are no rules that
1:04govern what it appears as. It can appear
1:07as physics which are apparent rules
1:11but it could appear as anything.
1:14And in this
1:16which is everything
1:19there appears sometimes an experience.
1:23call that an experience or a experience
1:26of separation of being a person.
1:30And that experience is recognized as the
1:33sense that what appears is personal,
1:38that there's someone knowing it,
1:41that there's someone in the body or that
1:44has a body
1:46that is the knower of what's happening.
1:50Now when that happens
1:53this being anything this in that in
1:55another way be of saying that this being
1:58free
2:00is no longer apparent is no longer
2:04obvious to the sense of separation.
2:08There is a sense of something being
2:10missed or lost.
2:13And so it goes on a journey called my
2:17life. And it's a it's a journey of
2:20trying to become
2:23every every experience every
2:27knowing let's say experience of adding
2:30knowing to that experience is one of
2:33trying to become
2:35fundamentally what it's looking for is a
2:39better experience.
2:41It doesn't have any free will in that.
2:46It's just trying to make things better.
2:49Fundamentally, it's trying to overcome
2:51the sense of separation.
2:55The loss of this as freedom. The loss of
2:58this is already complete.
3:04That sense of separation is an illusion.
3:10It never really happens.
3:14There isn't any real time for it to
3:18happen in
3:20the whole experience of being in time
3:22and being real is an illusion.
3:26It's an illusion that has no solution.
3:32It just tries and tries and tries.
3:34That's the energy of separation. One of
3:37trying. And that trying that since sits
3:40in the body.
3:42Now the reason that it's an illusion
3:45is that even that sense of separation,
3:48the experience of becoming
3:51is the same completeness
3:54appearing as that. It's this appearing
3:57as an experience of separation.
4:01Nothing has been lost. There isn't
4:04anything that needs to be found.
4:06Everything is already complete exactly
4:09as it is.
4:12All right, then
4:14we got a little preachy in the end.
4:19Anybody wants to talk about that?
4:42Hey Jackie.
4:48Hey Jim. Yeah. No, I just want to say I
4:51just love it when you kind of laugh, you
4:53know, you're saying this thing that to
4:55to you know, and there's no solution and
4:58it's, you know, whatever and it's like
5:00and you have a little chuckle to
5:01yourself.
5:03It's just it's just gorgeous like that
5:06kind of Yeah. I I don't know. I It makes
5:09me smile even though the whole thing is,
5:11you know, sometimes frustrating or
5:13whatever. But yeah, I I love the
5:15chuckle. I just wanted to say that
5:17really.
5:18>> Okay.
5:30Hi, Irma.
5:43You're unmuted, but I can't hear you.
5:47You have to turn up your sound or
5:48something.
6:13Hi, Mike.
6:16>> Hi, Jim. Um, thank you so much for for
6:20having these meetings. Always appreciate
6:22it. Um,
6:25I just have a question about the
6:27persistence of the illusion. You know,
6:30every day I wake up and it feels like
6:32I'm in, you know, in the same body and
6:33in and my phone yesterday is my phone
6:37today.
6:41Is there any any insight as to why this
6:45this dream keeps keeps appearing so
6:49real?
6:49>> Well, it doesn't really keep appearing.
6:52It's a that's just a story that there
6:56was a yesterday which you were a person
6:59and there is a a today in which you are
7:02a person though that's just a story. The
7:05story is that I live in a continuum.
7:09I live in real time of yesterday which
7:11is the cause of today which will be the
7:13cause of tomorrow.
7:16It doesn't happen.
7:18There is just this and there isn't
7:20anyone in it. But you can't tell the Mi
7:23that
7:25because the Mi knows there was a
7:27yesterday because it remembers it. And
7:29it knows that that's the cause of now
7:31because that's its experience. And it
7:34draws the conclusion that that will be
7:36tomorrow because that seems to be in its
7:39experience.
7:41And all I can say is all there is is
7:44what is.
7:48>> Yes.
7:50And
7:53so I guess my
7:58one of the things that boggles me uh is
8:01physical pain. So So there's that. I'm
8:04I'm just like, okay, if this is, you
8:06know, I'm just trying to figure out I
8:10the question why always comes up. Why
8:12did why did the initial why did why does
8:15the contraction happen? Why is there
8:17physical pain? Um, why why does the the
8:22unconditional love need us to be
8:25involved at all? It's
8:27>> Well, you're not.
8:30There isn't anyone involved in
8:32unconditional love.
8:35It is all just unconditional love.
8:44>> Okay. And
8:47>> all right. I and if I if I'm having the
8:52but if I'm having a
8:54>> if you're having anything which is the
8:56experience
8:58>> of separation
8:59>> then there'll be the question why
9:04>> why me?
9:07>> I ask that I ask that every day. Why me?
9:10>> Yeah. Yeah. The me does it wants to
9:13know. It feel fundamentally what it
9:15feels like is there's something that
9:17needs to be completed.
9:19There's something that needs to happen.
9:22It comes from a sense of loss and its
9:25energy is about finding something to
9:28find fulfillment.
9:30The the difficulty or the impossibility
9:32is separation is like an a a basket with
9:36a hole in it. So it keeps feeding that
9:40need to find something else, but it all
9:43just drops into the basket of separation
9:46which fundamentally is a sense of
9:48discontent.
9:53>> So So would you say that the does the
9:57word surrender resonate at all with
9:59>> who's going to do that? That's surrender
10:02is another story.
10:05>> Okay.
10:06>> All
10:08All paths, all effort are just a
10:10confirmation of the experience that
10:13there's someone separate.
10:15And the experience of separation cannot
10:18find what is already. It can only find
10:22what's next.
10:26>> Okay?
10:28>> Which is another story. There isn't any
10:30next.
10:44I I appreciate you. Thank you so much.
10:46Thank you.
10:47>> All right. Thanks, man.
10:51>> Can you mute yourself? I don't Somehow
10:54I've lost control of all this stuff.
10:58Oh, there we go. Look, I can remove your
11:00pen.
11:05All right. Hi, William.
11:15>> Hey, Jim.
11:16>> Hey.
11:17>> Hello.
11:18>> Hi.
11:19>> Um, I'm glad to to to be able to to talk
11:23with you. Um I I've had an experience of
11:28when I was younger and uh I had the
11:31sense of uh that uh I was reality itself
11:36and the only word that came at this
11:39point
11:40>> uh the only word the world
11:44>> Yeah. only word Yeah. Yeah.
11:45>> only word that came during this
11:48experience was perfect.
11:50>> Yeah. Absolutely.
11:52It was uh yeah like unconditional
11:56unconditional perfection.
11:58>> Absolutely. And uh since this experience
12:02I'm really into I'm trying to understand
12:06intellectually nonuality
12:09and so
12:10>> that's why I'm listening to you and I
12:13feel like
12:14>> uh the only answer of qu of all
12:18questions
12:20is there are no uh is is that there are
12:24no answers at all.
12:26>> Absolutely.
12:28Because the questioner is an illusion.
12:31>> Yes. It's very it's really crazy because
12:35uh it's like uh something wants an
12:40answer
12:43>> but there are no answers and uh yes I
12:47just wanted to tell you that thank you
12:49for listening.
12:51>> I I'd like to say something about what
12:53you told me. There's um that what when
12:57this was obviously perfection
13:01that isn't an experience.
13:04You don't actually remember what it's
13:06like.
13:09Any memory of it is another story. And
13:12what that memory of it and the story of
13:14it does is it obfuscates. It hides this
13:20as never having changed.
13:23This is already and still still doesn't
13:26really make sense. That same perfection.
13:30>> Yes.
13:31>> This is what perfection looks like.
13:33>> It's really strange because uh questions
13:37keep coming every time
13:41>> and uh
13:43uh it's like a uh I don't know a loop.
13:48>> Yeah. And uh um
13:52and um
13:55I I feel like uh I I I try to to to not
14:00feed that loop. Um but even
14:04>> what difference does it make?
14:05>> Yes. No. No. No difference. I know. I
14:09know because every time I say that to
14:11myself like uh whatever it is what it
14:14is.
14:17It's perfection appearing as a question.
14:21>> Yes. Yes.
14:23>> It has to be.
14:27>> Sure.
14:28Yeah. It's uh it's complete even uh
14:32even even what's even whatever actually
14:36whatever.
14:36>> Absolutely.
14:37>> It's complete.
14:38>> Absolutely.
14:38>> It's complete. And
14:41um Oh, it's like I feel good by saying
14:45this.
14:46>> Yeah,
14:48>> it's it's it's nice.
14:51>> Yes. Because uh
14:53>> um
14:56it's very interesting. Uh and just also
15:00um
15:02like um
15:05yeah. Um no, it's fine. It's it's
15:09transforming.
15:10>> All right. Thanks, William.
15:12>> Thank you.
15:23Hello. A I can't pronounce your name. I
15:25can't even read it.
15:30>> Hello, Jim. My name is Susan. I don't I
15:32don't know why the the name has changed.
15:35>> Yeah. Thanks a lot for the meeting. Uh I
15:38I wanted to ask you about I have asked
15:41this question several times here but uh
15:44how was it like the falling away of me
15:47because here there is great amount of
15:50loosening of a lot of beliefs a lot of
15:52ideas a lot of held energy but if it
15:57happens so there is no doubt that it was
16:01the falling away of yeah
16:03>> okay there will be no question No,
16:07>> it will be obvious.
16:09>> It is.
16:13>> But how was it obvious to you? So the
16:16the physical contraction fell away. What
16:20was it like?
16:22>> Well, the physical the physical was it
16:24was kind of every it's a it's very
16:27misleading to talk about what a p the
16:30story of Jim just because it sounds like
16:33it's a plan or a path.
16:38Oh yeah.
16:39>> And everyone seems to be different.
16:41Everybody does. But the physical was
16:45apparently separate from the absolute
16:49energy of separation. There was some the
16:52loss of of um the sense of meaning and
16:56purpose.
16:57Um the loss of the a sense of knowing
17:02were
17:03>> were apparently physical.
17:06um energies that literally left the
17:09body. But the end of separation wasn't
17:13in the same way an experience. There was
17:16a short moment of oh all there is is
17:19absence. This is empty. That that's just
17:22how it was.
17:25>> Yeah. Like like a glimpse.
17:28>> Not at all.
17:29>> Can we put No. Not now.
17:31>> No.
17:32>> What is the right word for it? the the
17:35closest you can
17:37>> the end of separation.
17:39>> Yeah, that's it.
17:40>> The end of the illusion of separation
17:43which is the end of the experience that
17:46there's a knower in the body.
17:49>> Yeah. Yeah. It's clear. And the second
17:52question about uh you often say when
17:54asked about relationships uh
17:57compromising you say yeah yeah that
17:59there is no compromise but when there is
18:02this sense of me in two people's bodies
18:06yeah they go on compromise and when one
18:09person is more soft softer yeah than the
18:12other person
18:13>> oh it doesn't matter it doesn't matter
18:15if there's a me
18:17>> there is an experience of separation and
18:20that as fundamentally a need and so it's
18:24trying to satisfy its need.
18:27>> Yeah. But when you say there is no
18:29compromise, you don't mean that the
18:31person who is stronger maybe
18:33psychologically
18:35demands on what
18:38it's there isn't that that need of
18:41finding something in the other to
18:44complete the experience of being
18:46separate to make it feel better. And so
18:49there's no compromise to that need.
18:53>> Ah you mean that but uh in in uh
18:57everyday relationships when there is the
18:59me people have this uh experience of
19:02going uncompromised. I do this because
19:05you want
19:06>> that's all just a story. There's the MI
19:09wants to work it out because it feels
19:11like if it can solve the problem that it
19:14finds called its life that that will
19:17lead to something better. But there is
19:20no there is no working this out. Not in
19:23the end. There's just this can't work
19:27that out. It's what's longed for.
19:29>> Yeah.
19:30>> What is already
19:32the mu wants a solution for itself.
19:34Absolutely. This is Yeah. this this
19:38>> so and when a strong so-called strong
19:42person satisfies his being strong it's
19:45the same idea doesn't
19:48>> tell any number of stories
19:51>> no one does it
19:53>> it doesn't ever really happen it's just
19:55this appearing as a story of compromise
19:58or someone stronger or weaker it makes
20:01no difference
20:03>> it's like energy energy
20:05>> that appears anything.
20:07>> Yeah.
20:10So because we see everything as object
20:13as separate people, separate
20:15>> that's just another story.
20:17>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's
20:20with character. We see and everything is
20:23just arising really. So
20:26>> only it only seems there only seems to
20:29be something happening.
20:32>> Yeah. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Thanks for the
20:36message because a week ago I was on a
20:39very so maybe I wasn't but there was a
20:42bad psychological state and when your
20:44zoom meeting came out on YouTube so it
20:47so every time you listen to it there's
20:49such an inner joy. Thanks a lot.
20:52>> Yeah. Yeah. Great. Thank you.
20:54>> Goodbye.
21:01Hi Oliver.
21:07Um yeah, I just wanted to ask you Jim.
21:09um
21:13like the the frustration that goes on
21:21it's like um
21:25like is it really this that there's an
21:27actual it really feels like there's a
21:29conflict going on like this
21:31>> absolutely absolutely
21:36>> Jim says something that isn't in my
21:38experience And I have no way of finding
21:40it.
21:42>> Yeah.
21:42>> Yeah.
21:46>> It actually feels here I like that
21:48there's an actual split even in the
21:50body. It feels like there's a split.
21:53It's like Yeah.
21:59The MI is very cunning and it will try
22:03all sorts of things to become what it
22:06feels or thinks we're talking about.
22:10It's always something else and it's
22:13always something that isn't already.
22:22I yeah I I know something here is
22:25looking for an answer to tell me
22:28I want to tell you a story and for some
22:31Oh yeah that's be you're on the right
22:33path it's okay don't worry about it
22:35>> h yeah of course
22:37>> it
22:38>> there is
22:39>> so I'll go ahead and tell you this story
22:45>> it is yeah it is interesting because a
22:48while back ago there was a there was
22:50there was an openness, let's say, and
22:52everything was really obvious. And then
22:55it wasn't obvious,
22:58and
23:02then listening to what we talk about was
23:04immensely frustrating. It was
23:06>> Yeah.
23:07>> It was like there was nowhere to go
23:09anymore. There was no more working out.
23:11Um
23:11>> Yeah, totally.
23:13And then
23:15you know all the things that we talk
23:17about
23:19I couldn't like I went to a couple of
23:20meetings and I found it for the first
23:22time I found it impossible to sit there.
23:24I was like Jesus will you just shut up
23:26with this waffle. It was I had to get up
23:28and go out. It was and before it was
23:30great because I felt like I was getting
23:32somewhere.
23:32>> Yeah. Yeah.
23:34>> Um
23:36Yeah.
23:39Yeah.
23:41and something it's so interesting.
23:45Yeah, it just goes from frustration and
23:49yeah anyway
23:52and then something here now is sort of
23:56I don't know I'm trying to work it out
23:57because life seems to be opening up
23:59again somehow. Um I have actually
24:02interest in going out and talking to
24:04people and it's something's really
24:06trying to figure what's going on here
24:07now like what's this all about?
24:10>> Yeah. Yeah.
24:27I think you said before, I think I heard
24:29you saying like that that
24:32like what we talk about it, it it kind
24:35of breaks the mind, doesn't it? It it it
24:38can't cope with all the inconsistencies,
24:41it not adding up, it not making sense,
24:44it not going anywhere. It's like, whoa.
24:47It just
24:48>> Oh, yeah. It doesn't conform to its
24:50experience. And in its experience,
24:54experience seems to be the solution
24:57to follow its experience. Or another
24:59thing is to go with what it's knowing,
25:02what it knows. And so it tries to make
25:04sense of what we're talking about, but
25:07because what we're talking about isn't
25:08an experience, it can't make sense of it
25:11in that way.
25:19It's too simple. Just this
25:40Yeah. Again, I I I can see something
25:42here is looking for an answer. It's I I
25:45really desperately want some someone to
25:47tell me
25:48because again, I want to tell you this
25:50story that oh, like a couple of weeks
25:53ago, I said that's it. I'm done with
25:54this. This is madness. And now it's it
25:59desperately wants it's almost like
26:01something Yeah, it's a whole waffle
26:03story again. It's like something wants
26:05some stability. It's like and now it
26:08seems to be opening up to sort of doing
26:11things again and it's like uh I've lost
26:13a train of thought. Um
26:15>> yeah, it doesn't matter. There is there
26:18is there is no CEO of this operation.
26:22There's no one in control.
26:32Yeah. I almost want so someone to
26:33confirm to me is this seeking or
26:36avoidance or something. I see. It's it's
26:38all I know. But it's um
26:40>> Yeah. Well, it's all trying to find
26:42something else.
26:44It wants to know what's happening.
26:47There's an illusion of being in control.
26:50And there's also a fear of being out of
26:52control.
26:54This is everything doesn't leave anyone
26:57to be in control.
27:03Do you think um
27:06is your sense of that
27:10like is is the loss of control
27:13is is your sense that this for some this
27:16actual fear of loss of control what
27:18holds that in place? Do you get that
27:20sense or
27:21>> no? Nothing hold it in place because it
27:23isn't there.
27:32>> Yeah.
27:34>> If there were a me, then there would be
27:38separation and there would necessarily
27:41be a need to be a path to
27:45not tweness.
27:48And that would mean that not tunis was
27:49limited in some way.
27:53Couldn't be everything.
27:55It's everything but the me. That's
27:58religion.
28:01That's what religion says. All
28:04religions. And I guess most spirituality
28:06says yes, there's not tuness, but you're
28:10not included. So here's a path.
28:26Can it seem? Well, doesn't matter. Can
28:29it seem when there's an openness and
28:30then let's say it sort of closes back
28:33down again? To me,
28:34>> it doesn't close back down.
28:36>> The Mi wants it.
28:39>> The Mi comes back and goes, "Oh, that
28:41sounds good." Or, "That feels good."
28:44>> Yeah. and then and then comes up with a
28:46story that it had to do with something
28:49that it was a particular feeling
28:52or a particular obviousness and so it
28:55goes on searching for that overlooking
28:58that this is it.
29:04It's it has no this there are no
29:06conditions to freedom.
29:20Yeah.
29:22>> All right. Thanks, Oliver.
29:24>> Thanks, Jim. Thank you.
29:31>> Hi, Arma.
29:39I'm going to try this. Does this work?
29:42>> Yeah, it works.
29:44>> Okay. Okay. Um, so would you say that
29:50there is a witnessing
29:53>> in the in the dream of separation? The
29:56experience is being the knower and that
30:00through practice can expand to be the
30:03experience of everything happening
30:05within my knowing. Oops, you went away.
30:09Don't know where you disappear.
30:14>> I can hear you.
30:15>> Okay, good.
30:18>> I've lost control of this machine.
30:22>> So,
30:23>> oh dear.
30:25So what's losing control
30:28>> there? There's a loss of control of this
30:31machine. There's no one. It's
30:32>> not happening to anyone.
30:36>> But you know that that's happening.
30:39>> No, there's a knowing. It's obvious. I
30:41mean there's a functioning that still
30:43happens.
30:45>> Okay.
30:46>> But there isn't a position or a personal
30:49experience of the functioning.
30:54It just functions,
30:56>> right? There's no center. There's no
30:59like um
31:00>> no personal center.
31:02>> No personal center, but there's
31:06but there is an an awareness of what's
31:10going on.
31:12>> Well, there's there's attention, the
31:15ability for there to be attentive.
31:18So there's an attention on the computer
31:21screen, but there isn't anyone aware of
31:24that.
31:27Awareness or consciousness are like a
31:29second layer.
31:33>> Okay.
31:34>> Or a veil either direction.
31:36>> Yeah.
31:36>> It's a distortion of the purity.
31:42Um
31:44when the personal I am
31:49that sense of
31:52existence
31:54>> Yeah.
31:54>> of being merges
31:57when that merges with
32:01without being personal.
32:04>> Yeah.
32:07Would you say that is
32:10what you're also speaking about
32:13>> in a sense? I'm not sure what you mean
32:15by merges. There is nothing left
32:18>> of the experience of the personal.
32:21There's nothing left of the knower.
32:27So it doesn't actually merge. The sense
32:30is more that it melts.
32:32It dissolves.
32:36leaving nothing.
32:38Emptiness.
32:40>> Emptiness. But also memories. I mean the
32:44memories.
32:45>> Sure. It all still apparently functions.
32:52>> You're saying that is still there. But
32:54>> absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Memories.
32:56>> Okay.
32:58>> They don't serve the same purpose,
33:00>> right? Okay. For the me it's a it they
33:03serve a purpose of knowing what my
33:06problems are or whatever else.
33:16>> Okay. All right. Um thank you.
33:20>> All right. Thanks.
33:32Hi, Lorraine.
33:51Think you got it. No.
33:55Yeah. No.
34:10You click something. There you go. Is
34:13that it?
34:21>> Can you hear me?
34:22>> I can. Oh, I'm having all these
34:25technical difficulties all this week. Oh
34:27my goodness.
34:28>> The energy of today.
34:30>> No, it's been a week of Anyway, so Oh my
34:32goodness. You know, coming back from the
34:35Tennessee retreat and um banging my head
34:39against the brick wall and I was so
34:41exhausted from all
34:45whatever. I guess it had to happen,
34:47right?
34:48>> Oh, right.
34:49>> I was so exhausting.
34:51of just not getting any answers.
34:54>> Yeah.
34:55>> Anyways, um and then apparently what's
34:59it's this kind of uh feels like
35:05uh things that used to be like, "Oh,
35:08that sounds fun. That sounds exciting."
35:09It's like really flat. There's like no
35:11interest in it. And you know what I
35:12mean? It's like kind of this emptiness
35:14and it's like, "Wow, that used to be
35:16real exciting to me. That used to be I
35:17get to do that." you know, and now it's
35:19just like nothing.
35:22No, you know what I mean?
35:24>> Yeah. Oh, I do. The need for excitement,
35:26the need for more
35:28can be can diminish.
35:34The mi is always looking for a
35:36distraction for something else because
35:38this isn't enough. In its experience,
35:42it's lacking something. And so it it
35:45looks at it looks for entertainment.
35:48It looks for a better feeling.
35:52And when there's not that drive or not
35:54as much of a drive for a better feeling,
35:57then the normal pattern that was there
36:00of finding excitement and activities
36:04just isn't
36:07there's not the same need.
36:10And it it it does feel like somewhat
36:12being in two different worlds in a way.
36:14It's just very strange.
36:18>> It's Yeah. On the one hand, I just go
36:20about do my thing with my friends and
36:22family and everything. And then there's
36:24this other
36:26>> secret life going on here.
36:32>> Nobody knows.
36:33>> Yeah.
36:34>> There's no one to know.
36:37>> And it's just it just very odd. Very
36:40alien.
36:42>> Yeah.
36:42>> Boring.
36:44>> Boring.
36:50>> I guess it's just what it is, right?
36:52It's
36:52>> absolutely.
36:54>> Yeah. And I I think or something thinks
36:57not to know not to make a story about
36:59it,
37:00>> right? That's a story.
37:02>> Yes.
37:07Yeah.
37:09Oh boy.
37:11Nothing to do. No one to do.
37:13>> No one. No. There's no one.
37:16>> No one.
37:18>> Doing still apparently happens.
37:20>> Yeah.
37:22>> Thank God.
37:29>> Okay.
37:30>> All right. Lorine. Thanks.
37:32>> Thanks.
37:39Hi Grit.
37:42>> Hey. Hi Jim.
37:44>> Hi. Can
37:44>> you hear me?
37:45>> Yes.
37:46>> Yes. Okay. Uh I have the following
37:50questions. You say every time there is
37:52no me.
37:54>> So far as you do it and the me is an
37:56illusion. Self is an illusion.
37:59>> I understand that in a way. But at the
38:02same time, you're saying um
38:06it is active. It seeks for something.
38:09And how can something what isn't really
38:14seek for something? And I can't bring
38:15that together in my mind.
38:17>> Well, it's an illusion.
38:20It's an illusion that sits in the body.
38:23And in the body is the energy of
38:25something missing, something lost. And
38:28so that motivates the body with the
38:31energy of trying to find something more.
38:38>> Okay. I try to understand that.
38:42>> Well, it's simple. It just sits in the
38:43body.
38:46>> The experience of separation sits in the
38:48body.
38:49>> Attention in the body.
38:50>> Attention. Yeah. Energetic. It's an
38:54energy in the body.
38:57>> Okay. And the mind claims it. And um
39:00>> it doesn't it doesn't really it's not
39:02really like the mind claims it. The
39:05experience is that this is my body.
39:10This those are these are my thoughts.
39:12These are my feelings.
39:16>> Okay. But that is then the illusion.
39:20>> That's an illusion. Yeah.
39:23>> And at the same time it's kind of real.
39:28In what way?
39:29>> It seems to be real for
39:30>> Oh, real. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the
39:34experience of of that energetic
39:37contraction in the body is that
39:39everything is real. I am real and
39:41everything else is real.
39:45>> And then I see that everywhere.
39:48>> Well, that's what I mean.
39:51>> I am real. Everything is real.
39:54>> Okay.
39:56Thank you very much.
39:57>> Yeah, thank you.
40:10>> Hey, William.
40:12>> Hi, Jim.
40:13>> Hi.
40:14>> Um, since at least since I woke up this
40:17morning, there just the sense of there
40:19being real time is collapsing.
40:21>> Yeah. that there ever was something
40:25else.
40:26>> Yeah.
40:27>> It kind of just renders the whole search
40:30unnecessary.
40:31>> Yeah.
40:32>> There's nothing to find.
40:34>> Yeah.
40:35>> I don't know. But I still feel like
40:36>> Well, no time to find it in.
40:38>> Yeah.
40:40I still feel like a person who's Well, I
40:43was going to say has a life. That's I
40:45don't feel like I've got a life, but I
40:46just feel like a person who's talking. I
40:49don't know if I'm talking to someone or
40:51not actually, but I feel like a person
40:53who's talking,
40:54>> right?
40:55>> But I I don't know how to explain it.
40:57The whole sense that anything's ever
40:59happened. It's I don't know if it's gone
41:01or if it has mostly gone, but
41:03>> it's not it's not um gone. It never is.
41:11But I would say yesterday if I remember
41:12back to apparently yesterday there was a
41:15sense that something had happened. There
41:16had been a life there had been
41:18>> what is and that's this being the memory
41:21of yesterday.
41:23>> Yeah.
41:25>> It's infinite
41:27beginningless endlessness. That's what
41:29this is. Jim,
41:31>> so what? Sorry. Go ahead. No,
41:33>> I was gonna say so why am I still trying
41:34to work all of this out then? What's
41:36going on?
41:38>> Yeah.
41:40That's beginningless endlessness
41:42appearing as trying to work it out.
41:44>> Beginningless endlessness.
41:47Okay. Thank you for the answer, Jim.
41:53>> All right. Thanks, William.
42:03>> Hi, Rob.
42:07Hey Jim.
42:08>> Hey.
42:09>> Hey.
42:11One of the first times I heard this
42:13message, I think it was you speaking,
42:15you there was a discussion about um
42:20awareness
42:21versus Thomas and and consciousness. And
42:24I remember you saying something like
42:27it's just another identity. it's just
42:29another attempt to create an identity
42:31which uh was amazing to hear. Um I've
42:37also heard
42:40uh
42:43I don't think it was you that there's no
42:46separate self.
42:47>> Yeah.
42:49>> But
42:51that kind of
42:54in words let me think but there is a
42:56self.
42:57>> No. Great. Thank you very much.
43:00>> So basically, yeah, this there isn't
43:02anyone what I would there was a sense of
43:05there isn't any identity at all really.
43:07>> No.
43:09>> Beautiful.
43:10>> Yeah.
43:11Just so great.
43:13>> Yeah.
43:15>> Thanks.
43:23>> Hi Mike.
43:27Uh, hi. I'm double dipping because I saw
43:29William do it once, so I I feel it's
43:31allowed. So,
43:33>> um,
43:33>> everything's allowed.
43:35>> Everything's allowed.
43:36>> Uh, I I'm fascinated with with you, you
43:42know, with the appearance of you like,
43:44uh, one of the things I noticed there's
43:47tremendous
43:48patience.
43:50>> Not at all.
43:52>> There's no patience.
43:53>> Oh, no. So, so, so, so it's just an
43:58illusion that you're that you have
44:01infinite patience for the same questions
44:03being
44:04>> Absolutely.
44:05>> So, you just
44:05>> ask my girlfriend.
44:08>> That was a joke. No, but there isn't any
44:10patience because there isn't anyone
44:12being patient.
44:14>> Okay.
44:14>> It's just simply this,
44:17>> right?
44:18And and then okay so my next question
44:21was going to be it seems like on the
44:25videos there's there's tremendous
44:27conviction like could could you
44:30>> there's not conviction either.
44:32>> No no it's a it's a poor analogy but is
44:37there conviction there that you're
44:39sitting on a couch or is it just
44:41obvious?
44:43>> Right. Yes. Obvious. Well, that this is
44:46nothing is more obvious than the
44:48experience of sitting on a couch.
44:55>> Yeah.
44:56And then earlier, you know, when when
45:00the person was talking about perfection
45:02and then as soon as I tried as soon as I
45:04have that happy thought, yay, I I
45:06figured it out,
45:08then I'm out of it. Then that's I want
45:11to get back to that. So, so it's like
45:14>> so, so it's I I love the fact that h
45:17happiness just gets canceled out
45:18immediately.
45:20>> Yeah.
45:24>> But um yeah, and the just the last thing
45:26I just I'm just I love watching the the
45:29I think it was London. Um
45:33you you're you were just
45:36I I got to meet the Daly Lama once uh
45:38cuz my boss paid a lot of money to go to
45:41to have a private thing and then he had
45:43to cancel at the last second and uh it
45:46was
45:48there was this child childness to him.
45:50It felt like I was meeting a
45:52six-year-old.
45:53>> Yeah.
45:53>> He had Yeah. It was just the absence.
45:55The absence is what I noticed of him
45:58more than anything else when I met him.
46:00>> Yeah. And um so so uh yeah so
46:05um so I feel like you share qualities
46:10with the Daly Lama but that's just a
46:12story.
46:13>> Yeah it's just a story. There is no Daly
46:15Lama and no Jim.
46:18>> Okay.
46:19>> Thank you.
46:20>> Thanks Mike.
46:32Hey, William.
46:41>> No, I can't hear you.
46:46>> Brilliant. I was asking you to unmute
46:48me, not to hear.
46:49>> Oh, right. All right. Yeah,
46:51>> now you can hear me.
46:52>> I can. Yeah,
46:54>> Jim.
46:55Look, I know you say there's no you and
46:57no us and no why, but I'm going to ask
47:01it. Why do you love us so much?
47:05>> Oh, if there had to be a reason, it
47:07would be conditional.
47:09>> Oh,
47:10>> a reason would make it conditional.
47:13>> This is the thing because basically
47:16what's been happening here at least for
47:17the last couple of days is just a love
47:19of everything or everyone. I don't know
47:21how you can. It's everything. It's
47:24tables. It's floors. It's people. It's
47:26whatever.
47:27>> Yeah.
47:27>> Eye infections.
47:29>> Yeah.
47:30>> Do you know what I mean? Being in
47:31hospital all day. But anyway,
47:33the point being it's just a love of it
47:36all.
47:37>> It's very clearly not mine.
47:40>> Yeah.
47:40>> It's very clearly nothing the me knows
47:44about.
47:44>> Well, there isn't anything that's not
47:46mine.
47:48There's just everything.
47:51There isn't a sense that there's someone
47:53that doesn't have something or isn't
47:55something else.
47:57There's just everything
48:00and that everything is unconditional
48:02love.
48:05>> Uh
48:06so I'm still asking why is it all
48:08unconditional love or I don't know what
48:12it's just a form of protection it feels
48:14like to survive.
48:15>> It could just be kind of a joy.
48:19Well, this is amazing. Why is it like
48:21that?
48:23>> No, not in my case. It's like
48:26in my In my case, it's a need, Jim, to
48:30be in control and to know what's going
48:32on because
48:33>> that could happen too
48:34>> to know what's going on because it
48:36doesn't make sense anymore.
48:38>> No, it doesn't.
48:41>> But it's like echoed when I there the
48:44absolute absence of the need for this to
48:47make sense is beauty.
48:50Correct. Mundo.
48:52>> Erectoundo. I don't know what that is.
48:54>> I said correct. Correct.
48:55>> Oh, correct. Mundo.
48:56>> Correct. Mundo.
48:59>> I love you very much, Jim.
49:01>> Love you, too, man.
49:14Hey, Armor.
49:19>> Hi, Jim.
49:20>> Hi.
49:21>> Hi. Sorry, I'm driving. Can't turn on
49:24the video. I I heard about Dalai Lama
49:28being mentioned, so I have a mild joke.
49:32You You are the nondualai Lama.
49:36Uh,
49:40>> all right. I'll see you on Thursday.
49:43>> Okay. Thanks. Bye.
49:44>> Thank you. Thank you. Bye.
50:41Hey, William.
50:43>> Yeah, it's just coming up for me about
50:45when you say there's no process to the
50:47end of me or there's whatever.
50:50Obviously, me is convinced that there's
50:52a path from where I am to what Jim's
50:54talking about. And
50:57>> I don't know like when I think about how
51:00strong of a conviction that there was
51:01that there was this need for this huge
51:04journey and obviously in my story it
51:06needed to include a ton of suffering
51:08that was very important. I had to really
51:11you know but
51:12>> there's a lot of beliefs around what
51:14we're talking about and those seem to
51:18sometimes be enacted. the belief that it
51:21needs to be difficult or that it's
51:23suffering.
51:26>> I suppose because if I'm suffering a lot
51:29then that means what I'm moving towards
51:30is really really really great.
51:32>> Uh absolutely. Well, that comes from the
51:34sense the this isn't a judgment but
51:37every individual has the experience of
51:38being se.
51:41>> Yeah.
51:42>> And so it assumes that what we're
51:44talking about is something really
51:46special.
51:47>> Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. You don't need you
51:49to tell me that.
51:51>> But that's the thing. It's like so
51:53because what we're talking about is
51:54this.
51:56>> The me puts it wherever it puts it and
51:58thinks it's really special and great and
52:00it's going to meet all my expectations
52:01and that. But we're talking about this
52:05as not special. But
52:09>> if it's not special, I mean, you can't
52:11put a word on it, can you really? Cuz
52:15it's not the me thing. It's not special.
52:17I'm not interested. But it's not like
52:19dead or boring either, is it?
52:22>> No. Well, for the Mi it is, but no, it's
52:25not like dead or boring.
52:27The Mi is looking for happiness. And
52:30what we're talking about is the end of
52:32unhappiness.
52:36It's not looking for the end of
52:37unhappiness. It's looking for happiness.
52:40>> Yeah. For an addition.
52:43>> Yeah.
52:46I still want you to say one word to give
52:49some clue of but yeah that would need a
52:53person there to know something
52:56a clue it's more obvious in the
52:59experience of being separate.
53:02It is sitting on a couch.
53:05It's already done. It's already whole.
53:08Perfection wholeness can appear as
53:11anything.
53:13This appearance is so fully and
53:16completely itself.
53:21>> That was quite a big clue, Jim.
53:23>> Oh, good. Good. All right.
53:25>> You just revealed the secret.
53:28>> It's sitting on a couch.
53:29>> The secret is there isn't one.
53:31>> It's sitting on a couch. You told me
53:33>> it's sitting on a couch. That's right.
53:35>> That's more than a clue.
53:37>> Yeah.
53:42All
53:43right. Thanks, man.
53:52Oops.
54:00>> Hi, Matthew.
54:04>> Hey, Jim. Um, so you you would say that
54:09this is
54:12pure contentment with for no reason.
54:14Would you say it would you describe it
54:16that way?
54:19>> Yes.
54:21>> I always feel like when people ask about
54:23stuff like that, they're expecting
54:25contentment to be a feeling.
54:27>> Yeah. Yeah. And that that feeling would
54:31belong to
54:32>> it would be a Yeah. It would be a state
54:34of contentment.
54:36>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
54:38>> So, but it's obvious that the appearance
54:40is needlessly what it is.
54:45>> And then that and then that sense of I
54:48is that is that energy of this is
54:51discontented. This needs something.
54:54>> Well, it's not the it is discontent.
54:58The sense of separation in a way is a
55:01demand.
55:02It suddenly has a job to do.
55:05>> Yep. Yep.
55:08And so if that illusion of I is not
55:13appearing any longer,
55:16then discontentment cannot appear. Would
55:19you agree with that? Not as a personal
55:21experience.
55:22>> Any feeling could could appear, but it's
55:25needless. So there can appear
55:28frustration.
55:30>> Yeah.
55:30>> Or anything. any feeling there's no
55:32reason why a feeling wouldn't be able to
55:35appear but it is it is
55:41all I can't come up with the right word
55:44it's not appearing for anyone
55:47so there's no condition to it of how it
55:49should or shouldn't be the reason the
55:52individual wants feelings and thoughts
55:54to wants to modulate them to fit what it
55:58what it feels it wants a better
56:00experience is because they feel like
56:02it's personal, like it belongs to
56:04someone and so they matter.
56:08>> Yep.
56:10>> And so there's just not that neediness
56:14of obviously, you know, experience is
56:16the wrong word.
56:17>> No.
56:18>> You know, just I mean just to get cut to
56:20the chase, it just doesn't matter.
56:23>> Yeah.
56:25>> It's not about anything.
56:27Just I mean just just this isn't about
56:31anything. How about that? It's not about
56:34anything.
56:35>> Yeah.
56:38>> It's not really It's just not about
56:40anything.
56:41>> Yeah.
56:42>> There's no meaning or purpose.
56:44>> It's not going anywhere.
56:46>> It's for no reason.
56:54>> And it's wonderful. Yeah, it is.
56:58>> Yeah.
57:01>> So, discontentment like obviously going
57:04to for me personally I hate airports.
57:08>> Oh god. Yeah.
57:10>> They s I don't enjoy sitting at
57:12airports.
57:13>> Yeah.
57:13>> But that's different than
57:16>> um me feeling discontent and desperate
57:19to change what is.
57:22>> No. Airports are awful.
57:24>> Yeah. Yeah. The seats in airplanes are
57:28even worse.
57:29>> Yes.
57:31>> Yeah,
57:31>> they are.
57:32>> Yeah. And that's just what is that's
57:35just what's happening.
57:36>> Yeah.
57:37>> And so the the the ego would be like,
57:39well, I should just be happy.
57:41>> Oh,
57:41>> while I'm sitting at an airport, you
57:43know.
57:45>> Yeah.
57:46>> It picks up and it's experience. The
57:49experience that everything that appears
57:51is mine. It's my experience or it's my
57:55feeling or it's my thought and it's
57:57constantly trying to modulate the whole
57:59thing to have a better experience.
58:02>> Yeah. Yep. Yep. That's it. Yep.
58:08>> Doesn't matter.
58:10>> Yeah.
58:11>> Not about anything.
58:17>> All right. Thanks, man.
58:18>> Thank you. Yeah.
59:29Hi Max.
59:31>> Hi. Can you hear me?
59:33>> Yeah.
59:34>> Would you agree that the experience of
59:37separation is constantly active like
59:41constantly sort of defending itself from
59:44absence and sort of constantly at work
59:47always?
59:48>> It's called being aware or being
59:50conscious.
59:51Mhm.
59:52>> Yeah.
59:56>> And then when when nothing has any
1:00:00meaning or purpose anymore, which is
1:00:03already
1:00:06it feels like things might just become,
1:00:09you know, more interesting.
1:00:11Is that something that that arises that
1:00:14it's like, oh,
1:00:16I guess,
1:00:17>> well, it just
1:00:18>> that's fascinating. It's just what is
1:00:21well wouldn't say fascinating.
1:00:24It just is what it is
1:00:26>> apparently.
1:00:27>> So like a bad airplane seat isn't like
1:00:31you know
1:00:32>> fascinating.
1:00:34>> But it's is it new when it's bad?
1:00:37>> Absolutely. Well, of course everything
1:00:39is
1:00:40>> right.
1:00:41Is it fascinating in that way of like
1:00:44>> No. Well, there isn't anyone separate to
1:00:46be fascinating.
1:00:46>> Right. Right. That's already
1:00:48constructing a story from
1:00:50>> Yeah. Yeah. It's just what it is
1:00:52apparently.
1:00:54>> Got it. Thank you.
1:00:55>> All right. Thanks, Max.
1:01:03>> Hey, William.
1:01:06>> Hey.
1:01:08>> Uh, do you hear me?
1:01:10>> I can hear you. Yeah.
1:01:11>> Okay. Um
1:01:14I don't know if you agree with this uh
1:01:16but um the most unbelievable
1:01:21for me
1:01:23uh is that uh absolutely everything
1:01:28that is happening right now
1:01:32is exactly what what is has to be like
1:01:37uh
1:01:37>> in a sense in a sense yeah but that's an
1:01:40interpretation
1:01:41It isn't that it has to be that. It's
1:01:44that it's perfect.
1:01:47>> Yeah. Because if I say it have to be
1:01:50that, it
1:01:50>> that's a condition that it cannot be
1:01:52that.
1:01:53>> Yeah.
1:01:54>> Uh but it's not even about that. It's
1:01:56just that.
1:01:59>> Yeah. There's no purpose behind this.
1:02:02>> So that it needs to be that one way or
1:02:04the other.
1:02:07>> Yes. It's um
1:02:10quite disturbing because uh
1:02:13we grow with the feeling that something
1:02:18can uh should have not happened.
1:02:21>> Sure.
1:02:22>> Or should
1:02:24like we control the different stuff
1:02:27around us.
1:02:28>> Yeah.
1:02:29>> And uh it's like Yes. Uh it just make
1:02:33the eye disappear. Disappear.
1:02:37Yeah.
1:02:37>> And uh it's uh it's
1:02:42absolutely beautiful in a sense but also
1:02:45very disturbing.
1:02:46>> Yeah, absolutely.
1:02:49Um
1:02:51but uh yes um it's very so so I guess
1:02:57what you're saying is also that there
1:02:59are no need to interpret
1:03:04to
1:03:06uh the interpretation
1:03:08is um
1:03:12is uh always force in a way.
1:03:15>> Yeah. Yeah. There's no way to express
1:03:19what's not separate.
1:03:25>> Okay. There's no way to express. Okay.
1:03:31And um
1:03:33it's like uh I don't know if you make
1:03:36the difference sometimes between
1:03:39uh the absolute and the relative.
1:03:42>> Sure. It's the same.
1:03:44>> They're not different. It's the same.
1:03:48>> But the relative is like uh the
1:03:51illusion.
1:03:52>> No, no. The only illusion is the sense
1:03:55of separation
1:03:59that has no reality to it outside of the
1:04:02experience of it.
1:04:05The appearance is and isn't.
1:04:08>> It's neither real nor unreal.
1:04:12>> Yes. the the individual the sense of
1:04:15separation is completely unreal.
1:04:19>> Yeah, I get it. Uh but you know uh in my
1:04:23daily life I feel like um
1:04:27>> but a daily life is a story.
1:04:30Yes.
1:04:35Uh but it's not I I can't really uh use
1:04:39this
1:04:42uh what what you're sending in.
1:04:44>> No, it's completely useless.
1:04:47>> Yes.
1:04:48>> Absolutely.
1:04:50Wonderfully useless.
1:04:53>> Yes. It's so deep.
1:04:58>> Okay. Thank you.
1:04:59>> All right. Thanks, William.
1:05:00>> Thank you.
1:05:48Hi Max.
1:05:52>> Hello. So in the absence sorry in the in
1:05:57the absence of me
1:05:59um
1:06:01is the appearance more
1:06:05alive?
1:06:06>> Yeah.
1:06:09I find that funny because
1:06:11>> it's not more alive, but the deadening
1:06:13experience of knowing it isn't covering
1:06:16over or hiding that aliveness.
1:06:19>> Right. That's clear. It's just funny
1:06:21that you know when when you say normally
1:06:24the word alive is associated with
1:06:26people.
1:06:27>> Yeah.
1:06:27>> And then when there's an absence of
1:06:30people,
1:06:31well, everything, you know, everything
1:06:34was always alive.
1:06:37>> Yeah.
1:06:38>> Absolutely. Beautiful.
1:06:41Surprising.
1:06:42>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:06:44>> Cool. All right. Nice. Thank you.
1:06:46>> Thanks.
1:06:53>> Hi, Oliver.
1:06:58>> Hi, Jim. Um
1:07:01I think um for me the main
1:07:06like this thing that keeps rolling round
1:07:08and round.
1:07:10Um
1:07:12>> but that's just another story
1:07:14>> of trying to find something outside of
1:07:17this.
1:07:22I'll just tell you the thing that
1:07:23something here just won't let go is
1:07:27it just when when you say
1:07:31somehow and I can't even describe it in
1:07:32words like how you say it's this
1:07:36even the sense to be it's it's perfect
1:07:39and it it it keeps playing this like a
1:07:41loop like a neurotic loop no but okay so
1:07:46I I get that I hear
1:07:47>> and the story is is that it makes a
1:07:49difference.
1:07:58>> Do you understand? It's like this
1:07:59disconnect between what you say and then
1:08:02it's only when the sense to be someone
1:08:04apparently falls away that it's obvious.
1:08:07And
1:08:09no, it's already obvious. It's more
1:08:12obvious in the experience of separation,
1:08:15but it's overlooked
1:08:17because it's nothing.
1:08:29I I don't know. I get the sense
1:08:31sometimes and I know you're not saying
1:08:32as like somehow as things are is okay.
1:08:36Like being separate is okay.
1:08:38>> It's even better than that.
1:08:41It's neither okay nor okay. It doesn't
1:08:43matter.
1:08:46>> It's unconditional.
1:08:49The essence of the whole is
1:08:51unconditional love. It's not interested
1:08:55in what's happening. Not in that way. It
1:08:58is everything that's happening
1:09:13for the me. The story is relevant.
1:09:18Unconditional love, isn't it? It doesn't
1:09:20matter.
1:09:22Story no story. Me, know me.
1:09:27Makes no difference.
1:09:56I just say it anyway. Yeah. Yeah. It
1:09:58just feels more even more frustrating
1:10:00now
1:10:02because there's nothing left to work
1:10:03out.
1:10:04>> Like logically it's it's it's even more
1:10:08frustrating. It actually feels in a way
1:10:09like the I don't know. It's like there's
1:10:11more to work out now somehow. That
1:10:13there's more of a sense that something
1:10:15needs to happen.
1:10:16>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:10:17>> It's acts like all there's left is
1:10:19something has to happen. Yeah, that's
1:10:22the fundamental experience of
1:10:24separation.
1:10:27Something needs to happen.
1:10:33And that's what is and isn't appearing
1:10:36as the experience. Something needs to
1:10:39happen.
1:10:57Like what we talk about is very
1:10:59contradictory and very
1:11:01uh is it or like it is in a way it it
1:11:05seems to create a real conflict in the
1:11:08sense that
1:11:09>> yeah it exposes the already present
1:11:12conflict. The conflict is for the
1:11:14experience of separation. This isn't it.
1:11:18And it is.
1:11:20And this just exposes that.
1:11:29Yeah. It It kind of doesn't it doesn't
1:11:32make sense to anything. Like logically
1:11:34it doesn't make sense. Energetically it
1:11:37seems to rattle the whole sense of
1:11:41and even in the body what see it it just
1:11:43it doesn't it doesn't sit well with
1:11:45anything. Nothing can sort of Yeah.
1:11:47>> No, you can't do anything with it.
1:11:49>> Yeah. In every sense, it seems to not
1:11:52sit well. It can't be. Uh, okay. I get I
1:11:56get that. It's like you It's just
1:11:58nothing.
1:11:59>> No.
1:12:00>> Yeah.
1:12:01>> It's agitating in every way. It seems.
1:12:05>> Yeah.
1:12:06>> Yeah.
1:12:07>> That reminds me, I used to say
1:12:09profoundly disconcerting.
1:12:17Yeah. Yeah.
1:12:26Again, I'll just tell you this anyway.
1:12:29You see, just just lately, it doesn't
1:12:32matter. I'm going to tell you all these.
1:12:35It's this feeling comes keeps coming up
1:12:37uh recently. Um,
1:12:41it's like um
1:12:44I could be sitting here and it's I think
1:12:46um what's been going on for the past 5
1:12:48years? I can't explain it really, but
1:12:50it's like it's um Jesus. Like what have
1:12:53I been doing for the past 5 years?
1:12:54Listen to these meetings. This is
1:12:56madness. And it's so energetic. It's
1:12:58it's like I'm waking up and I know it
1:13:00when I describe it like that. It's like
1:13:02you're waking up for a dream from a
1:13:03dream. It's like
1:13:04>> Yeah.
1:13:05>> It was like you were in a trance
1:13:06somehow. So the hell was I at?
1:13:09>> Was he I can't It It's strange. Yeah.
1:13:14>> Yeah.
1:13:17>> Yeah.
1:13:20Anyway.
1:13:21>> All right. Thanks, Oliver.
1:13:22>> Yeah. Cool. Thanks.
1:13:30>> Hi, Hank.
1:13:37Can you hear me?
1:13:39>> Yes, I can.
1:13:40>> Thank you.
1:13:42>> Yeah. I was just wondering um as um you
1:13:48um your personal I mean the the the
1:13:51appearance Jim Newman you know is is
1:13:54also functioning in the world and uh
1:13:58maybe
1:14:00doing shopping, paying his tax bill or
1:14:04planning his work or you know p the
1:14:08practical life is I mean you are doing
1:14:11that on autopilot or is that some
1:14:17>> there's there's there isn't any there
1:14:19isn't a a character Jim Newman.
1:14:23>> Okay.
1:14:24>> There there the body has a particular
1:14:26way of being but it doesn't have an
1:14:29identity
1:14:31of being a Jim Newman and there's just
1:14:34what appears to happen.
1:14:36>> Okay. And that might be paying bills or
1:14:40not.
1:14:44>> Yeah. But but obviously I mean I mean
1:14:48yeah I mean how to say it's you know
1:14:52your your message is very um you know it
1:14:55gives me some kind of yeah me when I say
1:14:59me it's the language but I know you you
1:15:02will say there is no there is no you but
1:15:04still you know it's something some sense
1:15:09of freedom from you know
1:15:11>> absolutely
1:15:12>> I don't care and you
1:15:14Okay, I don't I'm not going to to doubt
1:15:18about things, you know, I just do and
1:15:20but there is some
1:15:23some sense of morality when you say also
1:15:28unconditional love, you know, and u
1:15:31there's also some kind of morality, I
1:15:34think. I mean, I don't see you
1:15:37uh
1:15:38>> No, there's no morality.
1:15:40Yeah, but you wouldn't participate I
1:15:43think in some kind of
1:15:45>> who know it's not what you what you're
1:15:47doing is you're you're assuming there's
1:15:49actually an individual here that's
1:15:52saying it's no one
1:15:54but wholeness does participate in what's
1:15:56considered amoral things or immoral
1:16:01things.
1:16:05>> Yeah. But unconditional love is I mean
1:16:08that is something positive.
1:16:11>> Oh no, only for the mi. The mi is
1:16:14looking for a positive because it feels
1:16:16like it's a negative and so it needs to
1:16:19it wants to add enough to itself to
1:16:21become a positive and there isn't
1:16:23enough.
1:16:25There just isn't enough to become a
1:16:26positive and the whole is neither
1:16:30positive or negative.
1:16:34It's a it's a harmony
1:16:37equilibrium.
1:16:41>> So
1:16:43yeah, it's hard.
1:16:46It's hard to understand. You know,
1:16:49>> I think the concepts are easy. What
1:16:51happens though is the individual wants
1:16:54to make sense of it in its own
1:16:55experience
1:16:58and its own experience is filled with
1:17:00right and wrong morals and judgments,
1:17:04personal judgments and so it doesn't it
1:17:07doesn't um sit well with that.
1:17:13>> Okay. Okay. But no then I I think when I
1:17:17in my case I mean in my individual
1:17:21appearance Mr. Hank or whatever you call
1:17:23me you know I like to be active and
1:17:27doing something
1:17:29good in in the world you know and not
1:17:32up the the climate or
1:17:37yeah harming other people or something.
1:17:39I like to
1:17:40>> the illusion there is that there's
1:17:42someone doing it. Yeah, but still
1:17:45>> and that and that that and that that
1:17:47apparent happening is good as a as as as
1:17:52opposed to to bad. And that's just hope
1:17:57on the individual's part of trying to
1:18:00have a better experience, whether that's
1:18:03considered saving the earth or whatever.
1:18:07It it doesn't matter in the end, but
1:18:09that doesn't negate that that's what's
1:18:12happening. There's no reason for it to
1:18:14happen or not to happen. That's just
1:18:16what seems to be happening.
1:18:19>> Isn't that
1:18:20little bit nihilistic?
1:18:23>> Only only if the individual thinks this
1:18:27is about it.
1:18:29>> Okay.
1:18:35>> This has nothing to do with the
1:18:36individual because there isn't one.
1:18:39>> Yeah.
1:18:44Oh well.
1:18:46Well, thank you. It's just
1:18:48>> Thanks, Hank.
1:18:49>> Thank you.
1:18:50>> Take care, man.
1:18:51>> Yeah. Thank you.
1:19:02Thanks everybody.
1:19:04Thanks.
1:19:06Bye.

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