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Jeremy Boreing Talks Lady Ballers, The Pendragon Cycle And Snow White — Transcript

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0:13[Music]
0:27all right hello everyone it's the
0:28critical Drinker here
0:30um most of you know uh that I was able
0:33to interview Ben Shapiro a few weeks ago
0:36um to learn more about the Snow White
0:38movie that the daily wire are working on
0:40um but it's certainly not the only
0:41project that they've got in the pipeline
0:43and one of the other big things that
0:45they're doing right now is a TV show
0:47called The Pen Dragon cycle which uh
0:49we're kind I'm kind of interested to
0:51learn more about um it's uh a fantasy TV
0:54show that's going to be based on
0:56Arthurian Legend as I understand it and
0:59uh yeah the
1:00man who's working on it and who's
1:02largely behind the whole thing uh is
1:04Jeremy boring the co- CEO of the daily
1:06War so Jeremy thanks for coming in to
1:09talk with me about this um yeah can what
1:11can you tell me about the show yeah well
1:15it's uh it's been quite an adventure for
1:16me I've spent the majority of the year
1:19in Europe either scouting or actually
1:22producing the show I'm on a brief uh
1:25trip back to the states right now for
1:27the premiere of the film that we shot
1:29the first half of the year called lady
1:30Ballers which is premiering tonight uh
1:33December 1st on daily wire plus so
1:36that's been it's been a treat to be back
1:38you know near family and friends and
1:39Mexican food for a minute then as soon
1:41as we wrap up today I get back on a
1:43plane head back to Hungary to complete
1:46all of our production on pin dragon you
1:48know it's been it's been unbelievable I
1:50read these books as a teenager they were
1:52really impactful to me the pin dragon
1:54cycle written by Steven R lawhead and
1:57when I was in my early 20s I moved to LA
2:00to pursue film I spent a lot of time
2:02trying to write adaptations of lawh
2:04heads novels I didn't know that you
2:05needed things like you know rights at
2:07that time here's a great book I'm gonna
2:10write and I let those dreams go you know
2:13I let the novel go and I and I pursued
2:15other things for the the the 20 years
2:17between then and now and last year
2:19Dallas son from bonfire Legend our
2:21producing partner came to me and he said
2:23you know what have you always wanted to
2:25make and I said well you know there's
2:26always this that and the other thing and
2:27he said pretty sure you could afford the
2:29rights to that now you know if daily
2:30wire wanted to go back and revisit that
2:32and honestly it had never once occurred
2:33to me to look back at at that dream of
2:36making the pin dragon cycle until Dallas
2:38brought it up but it really seemed like
2:40like a perfect project for daily wire
2:43plus that because obviously the the guy
2:46who created daily wire plus was so
2:48deeply impacted in his worldview by the
2:50novel so I I think they'll resonate with
2:53our audience I think they'll resonate
2:54with a much broader audience and I think
2:55they'll help share you know kind of what
2:57what started me on my entertainment
2:59Journey with other people yeah um well I
3:02mean it's interesting the direction that
3:04dailywire plus is going now because um
3:06you are kind of branching out into a lot
3:08of different genres you know you've done
3:10Thrillers you've done westerns um you
3:13you've done comedies obviously with the
3:15the latest movie that you've got coming
3:16out just now um and now you've got
3:18fantasy TV shows as well so there seems
3:21to be a little bit of everything now
3:22that you guys are taking on and uh it's
3:25impressive for a relatively new company
3:28um in the media sphere or at least in
3:29the the film production and TV sphere um
3:32to be doing all these different things I
3:33mean is there any like like challenges
3:35that come with different genres or um
3:38you know are they all largely similar in
3:40terms of
3:42production I would say that there's
3:43nothing but challenges as far as theyi
3:45can see what we're trying to do is
3:47incredibly ambitious and and making
3:49anything is incredibly difficult making
3:52anything that's good is in some ways
3:54almost impossible I mean a movie
3:56requires so much technical skill so much
4:00creative uh inspiration and and it
4:04requires a dash of good luck too there's
4:06so many moving parts so many spinning
4:07plates we've all seen even great
4:09storytellers and great filmmakers
4:11produce a movie that isn't you know up
4:14to the standard that we might hold them
4:15to and and we're nothing like great
4:18we're new we're getting started you know
4:19we're I say to people sometimes I get a
4:21kick out of when you know somebody
4:23leaves the hospital with their they've
4:25got one of those world's greatest dads
4:27ball caps from the hospital gift shop on
4:29their head and I think well you're not
4:30the world's greatest dad you're you're
4:32not even a mediocre dad you're you're
4:34literally just getting started but it's
4:36an aspirational statement I suppose and
4:38and that's how we are you know we're
4:39we're firm Believers in taking steps
4:43making mistakes learning taking more
4:45steps hopefully making fewer mistakes
4:47and then learning from those as well so
4:50when we decided to get into movies much
4:52as when we decided to get into politics
4:54we just decided to do it boldly we
4:56decided not to get in our own way with
4:57doubts and second guessing we're just
4:58going to go charge the hill and learn
5:00how to build the airplane in flight and
5:02that's what we've done now of course
5:03we've we've brought in a lot of ringers
5:05like dallason to really help us on that
5:07Journey but but in the end uh what we're
5:10really trying to do is is become and
5:13we're trying to become through taking
5:14action you know we're we're objects in
5:16motion now not objects at rest and so
5:19yeah we we've wanted to put a lot of
5:20different genres in front of our
5:22audience see what people respond to you
5:24know the the
5:25only deciding factor for us in a story
5:28really is does it betray the values of
5:31our audience if it does we're not going
5:32to make it if it challenges the values
5:34of our audience but but in a way that
5:36ultimately we think does service to the
5:39audience and and it shows respect to the
5:41values of the audience well then we're
5:42perfectly willing to do that we're not
5:44trying to make you know propaganda and
5:45we're not trying to be um we're trying
5:48to Pander to the audience you know we're
5:49trying to make art but we're trying to
5:51make art that's for people who feel
5:53really underrepresented by their current
5:55options yeah um well I mean it feels
5:58like it couldn't come along at a better
5:59time particularly when you you mentioned
6:01pandering there I mean we we've just had
6:03South Park that's done an entire special
6:05about this very concept about Hollywood
6:07just pandering to uh to people um rather
6:11than just focusing on making great
6:12entertainment and you know I when I talk
6:15to Ben about this a few weeks back um my
6:19take was very much that uh as a business
6:22if you stop providing for your customers
6:24if you stop providing the services or
6:26the product that they want sooner or
6:29later some someone else is going to step
6:30in and start doing it and it kind of
6:31feels like companies like the daily wire
6:34are starting to pick up that slack and
6:36say well if you're not going to make the
6:37movies or the TV shows that people are
6:39looking for we'll have a goal and it's
6:42nice to see things like that happening
6:43because I like to see competition
6:45there well I agree of course and I think
6:48that you know the the left in Hollywood
6:50has created a real Market opportunity
6:52for companies like dailywire companies
6:54like Angel Studios and others to step in
6:56and try to to fill some of that Gap
6:58people ask asked me you know we we made
7:00our announcement that we were launching
7:01a new project called bent key a new a
7:03completely new app a completely new
7:04platform on the 100th anniversary of the
7:07day that Walt Disney founded this
7:08company and when we did so we launched
7:1018 animated and liveaction kid shows
7:13into the world and announced that we
7:14were going to make our live adaptation
7:16of Snow White you know with within fewer
7:19than two weeks Disney went into crisis
7:21management put their own Snow White live
7:23adaptation on hold and released a photo
7:28with digital dwarves which was
7:29essentially saying we're not going to
7:31make what we actually already shot I
7:33mean they've completely gotten through
7:35production on their adaptation of Snow
7:37White it very famously didn't have seven
7:39dwarves it had the seven magical
7:40creatures or whatever they were going to
7:41be called yeah so a absolute Retreat
7:44from the most important Media company uh
7:47fictional Media Company probably ever to
7:49exist and I think Dy wire played an
7:51outsized role in doing that was very I
7:53mean you look at that photo it's
7:54obviously crisis management way below
7:56the standards of Disney so someone asked
7:58me you know if Disney course corrects
8:01will it take away your Market
8:02opportunity and will it cause your bent
8:04key you know venture to fail and the
8:07answer is probably yes but what a
8:09victory that would be even in Failure if
8:12if I could pick one thing for the world
8:13today uh and I had to choose between
8:16Disney becoming Disney again and
8:17actually servicing its core Mission and
8:19its core audience which is a century of
8:22winning Goodwill and and public trust
8:24from parents with their children or I
8:27get to start a 100 Road of trying to
8:30create a library of content as
8:32significant and and beautiful as what
8:34Disney has historically created of
8:36course I would rather Disney become
8:38Disney again uh you know I can go back
8:40to being a lowly shampoo razor and
8:42chocolate salesman and be perfectly
8:44happy now I don't think Disney can
8:46actually course correct I think they're
8:48in a bubble inside a bubble inside a
8:49bubble inside a bubble and even if they
8:51try they actually don't know where the
8:52lines are anymore they're they're so
8:55disconnected from what Their audience
8:56really wants and believes but I hope I'm
8:58wrong I hope hope they try and I hope
9:00they succeed in the meantime I'm going
9:01to keep challenging them for uh for
9:04market share by creating content that I
9:06think more accurately reflects what that
9:08audience wants well I think as well the
9:10market is so big that there's almost
9:12room for everyone in something like this
9:14and to some extent I think this could be
9:16the way that the the model for
9:17entertainment and media is heading um a
9:20decentralized model where independent
9:22creators have got more opportunities now
9:24um to make things like you see it in the
9:27say the the the um media coverage space
9:31where it used to be that people would go
9:32to um sites like whether it's for video
9:35game coverage or movies that sort of
9:37thing um they don't get any engagement
9:39anymore nobody's interested in what they
9:41have to say because they're usually just
9:42shills and they're paid for and it's
9:43like access media they go to to people
9:46who are enthusiastic about it they go to
9:48YouTube channels they go to Independent
9:51um Gamers or film enthusiasts or
9:53whatever that whole sphere is now
9:55decentralized and I think the same thing
9:57is probably going to happen with the
9:59actual creation of of media of movies of
10:02TV shows particularly because the it's
10:04so much more accessible than it was
10:06before like people can create um greatl
10:09looking content now for relatively
10:11little money and that's that's great it
10:13puts more power in the hands of people
10:15who might be shut out before um
10:17obviously you guys are in this sort of
10:19Middle Ground where you don't have the
10:20budgets of like major Hollywood Studios
10:22at this point but you can still make
10:24excellent looking stuff for relatively
10:27little cost and I think that's a very
10:28interesting
10:29market now that it's been created um and
10:32it's ripe for for exploitation I suppose
10:34so you know it's good to
10:37see yeah I I agree with just about
10:39everything you said you know we we have
10:41an opportunity that probably wouldn't
10:42even have existed historically both them
10:44both the market opportunity and the the
10:47technological opportunity you know it's
10:49it is much more approachable now the
10:53film business you can actually you can
10:54actually reach out and try to create
10:56stuff and and succeed at creating stuff
10:58uh and I think that is only going to
11:00improve with time you know Hollywood's
11:02very upset about the Advent of AI I'll
11:04tell you an amazing thing that happened
11:06on lady
11:07Ballers I was having to finish the film
11:09in Europe because that's where I am
11:11right I'm shooting pin dragon and trying
11:13to finish this movie and we got into
11:16sound design sound
11:18mix and we needed some ADR you know
11:20there were places where we recorded
11:22Dialogue on the day from the actor but
11:24for whatever reason you know a plane
11:25went by or a mic battery was low on the
11:28mic and you dro a few frames of sound or
11:31somebody spoke too loud and there was
11:33peaking issues on the mic whatever
11:34whatever it is not talking about
11:36changing the line I'm just talking about
11:38we didn't have clean audio for the line
11:40and ordinarily the way that you would
11:41solve that problem is you would get the
11:43cast into a studio and you would put a
11:46mic up to the actor and then you would
11:47put the movie in front of them and they
11:49try to match their performance and match
11:51their lip movement so that you can sync
11:52it into the movie and we've all seen
11:54this anyone who's ever made a movie that
11:56your some of your least favorite moments
11:58in your own movies are the places where
11:59you see these problems now it usually
12:03passes only the filmmakers really pick
12:05up on it most of the time but it's a
12:07it's a dispiriting process to say the
12:10least so there we were in this H this
12:15mix room in budapes and we're trying to
12:18replace one of my lines I'm in the film
12:20and I peaked on the mic you I shouted a
12:22little loudly Courtside in one of these
12:24moments it's a basketball comedy and we
12:27were trying to to nail it but it was
12:28very difficult to nail because we we not
12:30only had to make my lips match make my
12:32performance match but we had to create
12:34something like the Reverb that you had
12:35in this big uh gym you know this big
12:38basketball gym where we were shooting
12:39basketball stadium where we were
12:40shooting it it was a real Challenge and
12:43the Hungarian owner of this mix Studio
12:46we had brought in an American mixer but
12:49the Hungarian owner of this studio came
12:50in and said you know I just tried out
12:53this new AI plugin you really should try
12:55it and what the plugin did is it
12:57analyzed me doing the
13:00line and it didn't it didn't like EQ out
13:03the problems it created a me to say the
13:08line exactly as I had said it perfectly
13:10in sync with perfectly the right room
13:13tone and Ambience but without the mic
13:15peing and it took it one second to do it
13:20and you say well AI could destroy art in
13:22all these ways and sure there's there's
13:23a downside to all technological advances
13:26but there's some real positives as well
13:28we will be able to do things better than
13:29we've ever been able to do them and
13:30we'll be able to do them faster and more
13:32inexpensively than we've ever done them
13:34and that will bring a kind of
13:35democratization it has all along digital
13:37cameras democratized film making in a
13:40major way um and you know apple with
13:43things like uh what was their editing
13:46Suite called Final Cut yes yeah Final
13:50Cut in the first Apple Towers
13:51democratized film filmaking in a major
13:53way and I think AI will will continue
13:55that Trend we'll deal with a bunch of
13:56negatives but a lot of positives too
13:58more and more people will be able to get
14:00this
14:00space I was just uh I was curious as
14:03well because you mentioned um lady
14:04Ballers the the comedy that you've got
14:07coming out um obviously given that it's
14:09pretty sensitive subject matter like
14:11what do you expect the reaction to be to
14:13this just curiosity well I think that
14:16there is a whole group of people A A
14:19large group of people left and right who
14:21Miss comedy who miss you know the the
14:24kind of absurdest comedies that we had
14:26in the 90s and early 2000s where we were
14:30able to mock the foibles of of human
14:34nature and of our society in a way that
14:36was actually enjoyable you know now
14:39politics is so
14:40divisive political correctness and and
14:42woke ideology have essentially shuddered
14:44almost all criticism of certain issues
14:47and almost all comedy on any issue and I
14:50think people reject that I think the
14:51funniest thing that's probably ever
14:53happened in my lifetime culturally is
14:55that we let men call themselves women
14:57and then go break the skulls of actual
14:59women in MMA matches and none of us the
15:02only thing funnier than that is how
15:03funny it is that none of us will say
15:05anything about it that even Hollywood
15:07Comics who've made their actual livings
15:09by mocking the absurdities in our
15:11culture can't say anything about it so I
15:12think that there will be a huge
15:14outpouring of support for the movie and
15:16I think that for the idea of movies like
15:20this even from people who may disagree
15:22with the politics I think people will be
15:24refreshed to see that you can still tell
15:26a joke and be unafraid about it That's
15:29My Hope anyway I suppose that uh you
15:31know by this time tomorrow I'll know
15:33something about how about what the
15:35reaction is going to be but I will say
15:36most of the criticism has been fairly
15:38muted I expected it to be much more uh
15:41sort of vehement the opposition on the
15:44left but you know mo most of the
15:46criticisms that we're getting so far are
15:47either complete denial that the issue
15:49exists at all would require some Ral
15:52gymnastics I'm not going to say anything
15:53that'll cause you trouble you know
15:55posting your video but the incredible
15:57mental gymnastics that they have to go
15:58through to pretend that men never
16:00actually compete against women in
16:01women's sports um it they like have to
16:04create new definitions to Define out the
16:07existence of something that we all know
16:08is happening every day right in front of
16:10us or it's criticisms
16:13like this looks lame and not funny well
16:15I know that's not true the trailer is
16:17incredibly funny or boring and Shapiro
16:20are just failed screenwriters and failed
16:22uh filmmakers which is the funniest
16:25criticism of all time to level against
16:27someone who is successfully making films
16:28right now yeah it's like how how many
16:31movies do I have to make before I'm a
16:32formerly failed screenwriter I I don't
16:35know the answer also it's just pretty
16:38funny to say to incredibly successful
16:40guys uh here's examples of you not
16:43succeeding at something because anyone
16:45who's successful at anything in life
16:47became successful through failure you
16:49know it's it's exactly our willingness
16:51to take risks and our willingness to
16:53fail and our willingness to learn our
16:54willingness to keep trying and adapting
16:57and evolving that has allowed us to
16:58become become successful Ben and I and
17:00so I'm I'm not ashamed of any failures
17:02that I've had in my life I'm I'm the
17:04product of those failures in many ways
17:06and you
17:08know it may hurt people's feelings but I
17:10I am a fairly successful person at this
17:12particular moment in my life so if those
17:15are the only criticisms that we're
17:16getting for the movie so far then it's
17:20nothing like the kind of outrage I
17:22thought was going to come and I think it
17:24it speaks to uh the fact that this it is
17:28a bit hard to assale because like making
17:31launching bent key we're doing something
17:33that people actually do want they
17:35actually do want to be able to laugh at
17:37these issues they actually do want uh to
17:39be able to see films that um that aren't
17:43sort of Towing the woke line because art
17:45doesn't do very well in a very small box
17:48and Hollywood has created a very small
17:49box for
17:50itself yeah I mean I I certainly agree
17:53um on particularly on the aspect of of
17:56comedy and there being a a real drought
17:58of funny movies getting released because
18:01it is gotten to the point where it's
18:03essentially impossible to make a comedy
18:05now because you always are going to risk
18:07offending someone with a comedy and
18:10because we live in that world now where
18:11nobody wants to be offended by anything
18:13or they make it their business to be
18:15offended by everything it's essentially
18:17impossible to make films like that and
18:19so they're not there but the demand
18:21always has been there like people want
18:23to laugh people want to forget their
18:25troubles for a little while and like you
18:27say sometimes just pointing out some of
18:29the absurdities of Life uh is cathartic
18:31and and we all need that every once in a
18:33while and yeah to to be able to get
18:37things like that again um yeah who knows
18:40where it's going to lead um you never
18:41know if if a a movie is going to start a
18:44bit of a movement or it's going to make
18:46something more accessible and other
18:48people are going to say well I can make
18:49a film like that now and it's we're
18:51allowed to have we're allowed to laugh
18:52at things again I don't know but it's
18:55that actually is another criticism that
18:57people level against us which is is you
18:59know you're not real Comedians and
19:01you're not real filmmakers and there's
19:03people who are much better than you and
19:04sure all that's true where's their movie
19:06about this obviously absurd issue that's
19:09dominating our culture uh my
19:13my my recommendation for dw+ my
19:16recommendation for the daily wires
19:18entertainment uh initiative more broadly
19:21isn't that we're the best it's sort of
19:23that we're the only and my hope is that
19:26we don't Remain the only My Hope Is that
19:28people better than us get involved while
19:30we are also getting better ourselves and
19:32you look up in a handful of years and to
19:35your point there's a real movement
19:36around doing this sort of work and we've
19:38we've brought the quality level uh much
19:41much higher you you do that through
19:43through practice you do that through
19:44doing the work you do it through
19:46competition as well and so you know if
19:49if a thousand F thousand flowers bloom
19:51I'll be nothing but happy about it um
19:54just to go back to what we were talking
19:56about earlier with the pen dragon cycle
19:58obviously that's going to be a big thing
19:59for you guys when it releases next year
20:02um it's it's still a relatively rare
20:04thing to get a successful fantasy show
20:07at the moment you know we had Game of
20:08Thrones for a good number of years um it
20:11was fantastic in its prime obviously it
20:13didn't end well but uh it's it then
20:16spawned other um wannabe you know
20:19Replacements we had things like The
20:21Witcher on Netflix that was awful
20:24generally we had the rings of power well
20:27um same deal there um but then we had
20:29things like um uh the house of the
20:32Dragon which which started to pull it
20:33back a little bit um but it's still
20:35relatively rare so I mean how do you
20:37feel releasing into that market which is
20:40still I don't know how would you put it
20:42um it still feels a little bit unproven
20:44whether there's like um whether there's
20:48enough space for multiple shows there's
20:51multiple Productions I may see it a bit
20:53differently which is to say I I think
20:55the daily wire can have a lot of success
20:58in um you know they say the riches are
21:01in the niches right the I think that
21:03it's very difficult for a show like Game
21:05of Thrones now Game of Thrones certainly
21:07accomplished it so I'm not I'm not
21:08suggesting otherwise it's hard for a
21:10show like Game of Thrones to be
21:12financially success successful because
21:14the cost is so incredibly
21:18High I think that we can produce content
21:22in that genre for costs that are not so
21:25incredibly high now they're incredibly
21:27high for us pen dragon is the most we've
21:29ever spent on
21:30anything it's more than any combination
21:32of other things we've ever produced I
21:34it's a it's a enormous number but it's
21:37nothing compared to the amount of money
21:38that was going into say the last season
21:40of stranger things or uh House of the
21:42dragon or one of these sorts of
21:45shows the audience for that kind of
21:47content though is incredibly dedicated
21:49and loyal you know if you if you
21:52make
21:54a basic
21:56drama well everybody likes a basic drama
21:58but there's a lot of basic drama so
22:00there isn't like there isn't a a niche
22:03of people who just go out and support
22:05dramas that's not a thing but there
22:07there is an entire category of people
22:08who support Western there's entire
22:10category of people who support comedy an
22:12entire category of people who support
22:14fantasy an entire category of people who
22:15who support sci-fi and so I think that
22:17if you can provide them good content and
22:19if you can do it
22:21economically that you can get that very
22:23loyal and very motivated audience to
22:25come and engage with your work in a way
22:27that couldn't with more accessible
22:30content yes the content is more
22:31accessible but it's much harder to
22:33actually motivate an audience around
22:35going to see it that's my working
22:37premise anyway again let's true yeah
22:42exactly um yeah just one last question I
22:44was going to ask really um we're we're
22:46living um in a Post strike World um you
22:50know obviously that was very disruptive
22:51for the Hollywood model and from what I
22:54understand they are going to be really
22:56reducing the output of new shows
22:58um new movies over the next couple of
23:00years just purely because um they're not
23:03financially viable anymore particularly
23:06with the with the streaming services
23:07there's obviously a lot of them and they
23:09are producing so much content that
23:11people just can't keep up with it
23:12anymore um do you think that's going to
23:14help the fact that they're reducing
23:16their output does it give you more of a
23:18an opportunity for something like the
23:20daily wire
23:22plus yeah what I really think is that
23:24the amount of content that Hollywood
23:26makes doesn't imp the daily wires model
23:29all that much because whether they make
23:32you know 50 shows 100 shows or 500 shows
23:36all of the shows betray the values of of
23:38half of the audience you know up up to
23:41half of the audience and so in that
23:44sense we have currently no competition
23:46we're the we're the only ones and that's
23:48not fair again there are a few other
23:50players Angel Studios and others but
23:51there are so few of us producing so
23:53little content compared to the size of
23:55the audience that's that feels forsaken
23:58by the big studios that I think
24:01effectively no one is doing it so if we
24:03do any of it at all we have a real
24:05opportunity to succeed you know a day a
24:08day may come when as we discussed
24:10earlier Hollywood course corrects a
24:11little bit and then the amount of
24:13content that they produce would become a
24:14real a real threat to us a real
24:16challenge to us but again I I don't I
24:18don't think that they have the ability
24:20to do that and they certainly don't have
24:21the ability to do it
24:23quickly no um I agree on that one uh um
24:28I'm very aware that I've only got you
24:30for so long so I don't want to eat up
24:32too much of your time with this um but I
24:34do want to say thank you very much for
24:36taking the time to to speak with me
24:37about this stuff um it's been
24:39interesting to hear more about um really
24:42your thinking behind a lot of these
24:43shows and and movies and so on and where
24:45you see it going so um I appreciate the
24:49time that you've given me today thank
24:50you very much for having me all right
24:52and for everyone watching this that is
24:54all we've got for today so go away now
24:58h

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